Speaker 1: Hi, going everybody. I'm Dan Horde and this is the
Speaker 1: Bengals Booth Podcast. Bye Bye Bye edition. Yes, I just
Speaker 1: named an episode of the podcast after an N Sync song,
Speaker 1: which is a bit of a credibility killer. But hey,
Speaker 1: I happen to think that Justin Timberlake is one of
Speaker 1: the most talented people on the planet and that he
Speaker 1: and Jimmy Fallon should co host the Oscars. And I
Speaker 1: am totally going off on a tangent. Where were we?
Speaker 1: It's the Bengals Bye week, and on this episode of
Speaker 1: the podcast, I'll talk to my broadcast partner Dave Lapham
Speaker 1: about a wide variety of topics, including the possibility of
Speaker 1: Hugh Jackson returning to the Bengals in some capacity this
Speaker 1: year after being fired in Cleveland. I'll also go one
Speaker 1: on one with first round draft pick Billy Price, who
Speaker 1: could be back from his foot injury when the Bengals
Speaker 1: return to action a week from Sunday against the Saints.
Speaker 1: And we'll visit with the back who had the highest
Speaker 1: passer rating ever in a Super Bowl. No, it's not
Speaker 1: Joe Montana, Tom Brady or Terry Bradshaw. Stick around to
Speaker 1: find out who it is. All of that is straight ahead.
Speaker 1: But first, here's a quick reminder that you can have
Speaker 1: the latest edition of this podcast delivered right to your phone, tablet,
Speaker 1: or computer by subscribing on iTunes, Stitcher, or pod Bean.
Speaker 1: It's the greatest invention since the NFL by week. I
Speaker 1: love my job and can honestly say that I feel
Speaker 1: like I have never worked a day in my life.
Speaker 1: But this Sunday, after hopefully calling a Bearcat's win over
Speaker 1: Navy on Saturday, I am looking forward to watching football
Speaker 1: in the family room with my son, eating a ton
Speaker 1: of unhealthy food, and enjoying a frosty beverage. I also
Speaker 1: hope it's the last weekend without a Bengals football game
Speaker 1: until mid February, unless, of course, they earned a first
Speaker 1: round playoff. All right, enough rambling, time to talk football
Speaker 1: with Dave Lapple. The Cleveland Browns fired Hugh Jackson on
Speaker 1: Monday with a three thirty six and one record in
Speaker 1: two and a half years. Yikes. We know he was
Speaker 1: close to Marvin Lewis and well liked by Mike Brown.
Speaker 1: What are the odds that Hugh Jackson returns to Cincinnati
Speaker 1: in some role this year? I think they're decent. You know,
Speaker 1: I think Marvin and Hure like brothers really, And when
Speaker 1: you look at it, the Bengals still have to play
Speaker 1: the Cleveland Browns twice in a five week span. And
Speaker 1: what better source of information for the Cleveland Browns than
Speaker 1: the former head coach that was coaching them this year.
Speaker 1: I mean, he can get up and give a dissertation
Speaker 1: to any one of the three phases and give valuable information.
Speaker 1: Plus the fact that when he game planned against the Steelers,
Speaker 1: they tied, you know, and he knows Baltimore intimately, he
Speaker 1: knows Cleveland intimately, he knows the Pittsburgh Steelers intimately. Haven't
Speaker 1: been a head coach as well as an assistant in
Speaker 1: this division, but coach now as well the last two
Speaker 1: games of the season on the road, Cleveland and Pittsburgh.
Speaker 1: What's wrong with having another good football coach with a
Speaker 1: very bright mind game planning making suggestions. I could see
Speaker 1: special consultant to the head coach. I'm not saying assistant
Speaker 1: head coach, but special consultant to the head coach, whatever
Speaker 1: it may be. And uh and just you know, use
Speaker 1: him in that regard. Just another guy in the meeting
Speaker 1: rooms with suggestions. Guys, you know, what really worked when
Speaker 1: we played Pittsburgh. This, This really worked. Maybe we can
Speaker 1: think of this concept. We have the personnel to think
Speaker 1: of this concept. Those kind of things are invaluable. And
Speaker 1: why not do it with a guy that you know,
Speaker 1: I think would come in and not cause a bunch
Speaker 1: of waves. Joe Mixon had a career high one hundred
Speaker 1: twenty three yards against Tampa Bay on twenty one carries.
Speaker 1: For the year lap he's averaging four point eight yards
Speaker 1: per carry. That is better than Todd Gurley, as Zekiel Elliott,
Speaker 1: and Kareem Hunt, among others. What's Joe doing well? Where
Speaker 1: can he be better? You know, Joe has proven that
Speaker 1: he's a cleep back. I mean his size speed ratio.
Speaker 1: He's a freak two hundred and twenty five pounds plus
Speaker 1: to be able to run the way he runs. He
Speaker 1: can catch the football. He heard him though, when he
Speaker 1: tried to one hand catch that screen pass. That's a
Speaker 1: habit that he has. He doesn't have to use just
Speaker 1: one hand. He has to break that habit. He's done
Speaker 1: it so much, you know, it's like muscle memory. Now
Speaker 1: he can't be doing that anymore. He will block and
Speaker 1: blitz pick up the one flying. The ointment in my
Speaker 1: mind is that, particularly when it's third and short, fourth
Speaker 1: and short, hit it, don't hit it, stop, think, and
Speaker 1: even retreat. And three instances in the last game when
Speaker 1: he had set his career high, he was a yard
Speaker 1: passed the line of scrimmage, retreated and tried to bounce
Speaker 1: lower those pads. You're two hundred and twenty five plus pounds,
Speaker 1: hammere it. Get the two or three yards, move the chains.
Speaker 1: You don't have to hit a grand Slam every every carry,
Speaker 1: and you know, keep working on your vision. I don't
Speaker 1: think he has the greatest natural vision of any running
Speaker 1: back in the league. And that's something that you either
Speaker 1: have or don't. There's instincts there that are natural, but
Speaker 1: it can be improved, and I think Joe needs to,
Speaker 1: you know, work, work on that part of it. You know.
Speaker 1: That would be the other thing that as I watch
Speaker 1: him run the football, because he's a he's a naturally
Speaker 1: gifted cutback runner, all those kinds of things, but sometimes
Speaker 1: you know, you wonder why he does it when he
Speaker 1: does it, he picks and chooses at odd times. Sometimes.
Speaker 1: The Bengals have as many significant injuries as any team
Speaker 1: in the NFL. Who do you think will be back
Speaker 1: immediately after the buy and what guys are likely to
Speaker 1: be out for a little while longer. Well, I think
Speaker 1: the guy that probably has the best chance of coming
Speaker 1: back immediately after the buy physically is Billy Price. I
Speaker 1: think he's he already practiced limited even before the game
Speaker 1: against the Tampa Bay Buccaneers, so he's tracking in the
Speaker 1: right direction. But I would make sure that he's back
Speaker 1: and ready. Not just back, I mean physically ready and
Speaker 1: ready to play. I mean he hasn't played football in
Speaker 1: a couple of months. And you know the thing is,
Speaker 1: Trey Hopkins is playing good football. I thought the interior
Speaker 1: of the offensive line, including Westerman, acquitted themselves well against
Speaker 1: Tampa Bay. I thought Redman had his best game. He
Speaker 1: didn't give up a pressure the whole game. So I
Speaker 1: would be smart with Billy Price. Giovanni Bernard might be
Speaker 1: my next available candidate, but I'm not sure he'll be
Speaker 1: ready for New Orleans, but it'll be it'll be shortly thereafter.
Speaker 1: Everybody else kind of a week to week basis, And
Speaker 1: the guys that are really missing to help their third
Speaker 1: down situation is Nick Vigil in my mind, in today's
Speaker 1: football is as good as nickel linebacker as there is
Speaker 1: long guy that can run, can run with running backs
Speaker 1: and tight ends. They're getting killed at the linebacker level.
Speaker 1: I mean, they have the most targets against them in
Speaker 1: the NFL according to Pro Football focused at the linebacker level,
Speaker 1: and the most completions against them. And then dark ques
Speaker 1: Den Art. You know, you have a luxury of a
Speaker 1: former first round cornerback. It's slot corner communicating everything that
Speaker 1: was big. Not having him there in that slot corner
Speaker 1: and that nickel and I'm package is hurting them big time.
Speaker 1: So those guys, man, there's a you know, apb to
Speaker 1: get them back as quickly as possible. But you can't
Speaker 1: rush these things. Everybody heals at a different rate, you know,
Speaker 1: so you just have to be patient. Lap. The Bengals
Speaker 1: are ound of pace to give up the most yards
Speaker 1: of any team in NFL history. Back in two thousand,
Speaker 1: Marvin Lewis was the coordinator of a Baltimore defense that
Speaker 1: gave up the fewest points of any team in NFL history,
Speaker 1: at least in a sixteen game season. Should Marvin take
Speaker 1: a more hands on approach with the Bengals defense, you know,
Speaker 1: you'd almost think with his defensive background that he is.
Speaker 1: You know, I think he's in a good percentage of
Speaker 1: defensive meetings. If my defense is struggling like it is,
Speaker 1: and I'm the head coach and I have the expertise
Speaker 1: I have on that side of the football, I have
Speaker 1: my thumb on the pulse of that bad boy. But
Speaker 1: in terms of calling defensive plays, tried it Leslie Frasier,
Speaker 1: defensive coordinator. The defense was struggling, Marvin took over play
Speaker 1: calling they know what to Cleveland and got smoked. It
Speaker 1: was like thirty four to three or something. Didn't go well.
Speaker 1: So maybe with that past history in mind, he may
Speaker 1: think twice about it. I think that they just have
Speaker 1: to they have to work their way through it. In
Speaker 1: conversation with coach Austin earlier in the week, you know,
Speaker 1: he talked about twenty and fifteen Lions that he was
Speaker 1: a coordinator four and they went one and seven to
Speaker 1: start the season. They'd given up over three thousand yards
Speaker 1: in the first half of the season. They were tracking
Speaker 1: dismally two and they tweaked some things, made some adjustments,
Speaker 1: and you know, he said, everything's gonna play scheme the
Speaker 1: way we're approaching it. Personnel calls were making. The whole
Speaker 1: thing is going to be examined. And in Detroit shortly thereafter,
Speaker 1: they went to Green Bay and one on the road
Speaker 1: for the first time in thirty years, and they went
Speaker 1: six and two and the loss was to Green Bay
Speaker 1: on the hail. Mary was one of the losses, so
Speaker 1: they could have gone seven and one after starting one
Speaker 1: and seven. So his point is, if we can find
Speaker 1: that type of magic, be five and two and go
Speaker 1: six and two on the back end, now you're looking
Speaker 1: at eleven and five record, or you know, if you
Speaker 1: can go seven to one, even better. So obviously it
Speaker 1: can't get worse. It has to improve. And you've got
Speaker 1: a lot of young guys I think that are making
Speaker 1: a lot of mental errors. It's that seems to be
Speaker 1: the case. And with that, you almost when you're given
Speaker 1: when you because of injury, you have to give the
Speaker 1: guys on the job training. You have to be patient
Speaker 1: because with every rep they're getting, they're going to improve.
Speaker 1: I mean, repetition breeds comfort level. And right now, in
Speaker 1: the first half of the season, a lot of their
Speaker 1: heads were spinning, some of these young guys, I mean
Speaker 1: their roles expanded to a point that they had no concept,
Speaker 1: no idea when they broke training camp that they were
Speaker 1: going to be in these positions. But they are. And
Speaker 1: that's that's life in the National Football League, and everybody
Speaker 1: has to adjust. It's it's adjustments and adjustments to adjustments,
Speaker 1: and you just have to do it and uh and
Speaker 1: build and continue to grow. Laugh. The Bengals have obviously
Speaker 1: had problems at the linebacker position this year. The last
Speaker 1: time they drafted a linebacker in the two rounds of
Speaker 1: the draft was two thousand and nine, that's ten drafts ago,
Speaker 1: and they took Raymlea Logan the second round. The year
Speaker 1: before that, they took Keith Rivers in the first round.
Speaker 1: Do they need to address that position earlier in the draft.
Speaker 1: I think in this era, the NFL tight ends are
Speaker 1: so good that linebackers are involved with that coverage. I
Speaker 1: think you have to maybe modify your approach. The Bengals.
Speaker 1: The way they've they've built their defenses in today's NFL
Speaker 1: is pass rushers and cover guys because it's a throwing league,
Speaker 1: and you know, then you worry about linebackers third and
Speaker 1: it's work for him. I mean, they have Pro Bowl
Speaker 1: pass rushers and Geno Atkins and Carlos Dunlap. They've got
Speaker 1: multiple first round picks. They still have three, even though
Speaker 1: dark Weis has heard three first round picks one of
Speaker 1: first rounders in the back end. So in today's NFL,
Speaker 1: if you have two Pro Bowl pass rushers in three
Speaker 1: first round cover guys in the back end, it should
Speaker 1: be the makings of a decent defensive football team. But
Speaker 1: they're getting pounded at the linebacker level. Pro Football Focus
Speaker 1: says they've been targeted more than any team at that
Speaker 1: level of the field, that position group, that intermediate range,
Speaker 1: and more completions against them. Now you know injuries. You know,
Speaker 1: in the last game, Vantes perfect Nick Vigil, they're the
Speaker 1: nickel linebackers. Both were down. And I think Nick Vigil
Speaker 1: is as good at nickel linebackers or is in the game.
Speaker 1: He can really run long, can run with those tight ends,
Speaker 1: run with the running backs, and he was drafting the
Speaker 1: third round. So if there's a guy that is worthy
Speaker 1: of it, I don't think you reach for it necessarily.
Speaker 1: But if you're doing your evaluations, and Duke Tobin and
Speaker 1: his crew do as good as anybody in that aspect
Speaker 1: of it, and your board sorts out that way, and
Speaker 1: you have one you know, even if it's early second
Speaker 1: round or hopefully late first round, but early second round
Speaker 1: because of a trade, pull the trigger. If he's the guy,
Speaker 1: you know, because in today's NFL, it's it's a must.
Speaker 1: Hugh Jackson was not the only former Bengals coach who
Speaker 1: got fired this week. Paul Alexander, his first year, is
Speaker 1: the offensive line coach of the Dallas Cowboys, only lasted
Speaker 1: half a season. Does the Bengals offensive line looks significantly
Speaker 1: different under Frank Pollock already than it dead under Polo Alexander. Yes,
Speaker 1: they have an attitude. I mean they will fight you.
Speaker 1: They'll they'll do everything they possibly can. Their whole posture
Speaker 1: is aggressiveness. Whereas before it was passiveness, it was retreat
Speaker 1: and catch. This group makes a stand and punches. And
Speaker 1: as a former lineman, I much prefer that, much prefer
Speaker 1: seeing that, and I know the quarterback much prefer seeing
Speaker 1: that because even if you give up, you know, you
Speaker 1: can't be so consumed with a personal stat of old
Speaker 1: quarterback sacks that you're giving up consistent pressure and the
Speaker 1: pass rush is getting into the quarterback's face every snap.
Speaker 1: But because he's a smart team player, he's the ball
Speaker 1: out of his hands in less than two and a
Speaker 1: half seconds, but he has no space to throw the football.
Speaker 1: You're not helping the football team. You're hurting the football team.
Speaker 1: I don't give a damn if you only give up
Speaker 1: eighteen sacks. If you give ninety eight pressures, terrible. I'd
Speaker 1: rather give up fifty pressures and thirty of them end
Speaker 1: up being sacks because those other forty eight snaps the
Speaker 1: quarterbacks seeing the field and picking him apart. So I'm
Speaker 1: not as concern with sack numbers as I am with
Speaker 1: overall pressure numbers. What does the pocket look like for
Speaker 1: the quarterback? Andy Dalton's not the biggest quarterback in the world.
Speaker 1: I get so sick and tired of him throwing out
Speaker 1: of a hole where he couldn't even see. I mean,
Speaker 1: he's throwing with so much anticipation and has to be
Speaker 1: accurate with it. He's not even seeing where it's going
Speaker 1: to end up. And receivers as well. You'll talk to receivers.
Speaker 1: When Doug Flutie was a teammate in New Jersey five
Speaker 1: to nine and he dropped down to throw the ball
Speaker 1: by his shoulder. He's throwing the ball about five foot
Speaker 1: level and he threw between rushers. He didn't throw over
Speaker 1: the top of anybody. Our receivers would complain about when
Speaker 1: he's in pocket, the ball would come out like a
Speaker 1: jugs on between bodies and it was on top of
Speaker 1: them before they could react. They never saw the ball
Speaker 1: out of the quarterback's hand. Every receiver will tell you
Speaker 1: when they can see the quarterback the ball out of
Speaker 1: the quarterback's hands, they can make much better adjustments. So
Speaker 1: if you're if the quarterbacks thrown out of a hole
Speaker 1: and the receivers can't see the ball coming out of
Speaker 1: his hand, that's a double dip tragedy right there. So
Speaker 1: I like the fact that they're jumping people, they're taking
Speaker 1: people on. They're giving the quarterback clean their pocket, more
Speaker 1: vision space he can climb the pocket easier. Long story short,
Speaker 1: I like what I'm seeing, and they're much more aggressive
Speaker 1: they're coming off the football. And honestly, are they an
Speaker 1: upper crusted talent wise offensive line? No? But Frank Pollock,
Speaker 1: is he doing it with smoking mirrors? Probably to an extent,
Speaker 1: But you know what, sometimes the some of the parts
Speaker 1: equal is a lot better than each individual piece of it.
Speaker 1: And that's when you have a good offensive line. You
Speaker 1: have five guys believing in each other playing a concert,
Speaker 1: the some of the parts can be better than any
Speaker 1: individual Pro Bowl stud or whatever. If you have a
Speaker 1: Pro Bowl stud in four schmucks, ain't gonna get you much.
Speaker 1: Ain't gonna get you very far. Be a good band name,
Speaker 1: all right. Last thing. Last week, the Bengals were nearly
Speaker 1: toppled by thirty five year old Ryan Fitzpatrick, who, as
Speaker 1: we all know, is a hobvid man. Yes, here's this
Speaker 1: week's question. Between ten years playing in the NFL and
Speaker 1: two years in the USFL, who is the smartest guy
Speaker 1: you ever played with? Another habvid man, Pat mcinelly. That
Speaker 1: guy was had perfect score on the one relick, only
Speaker 1: one fifty out of fifty, And I said, you know,
Speaker 1: how quickly did you finish it? I was bored, man,
Speaker 1: I was sitting around for five minutes. He Pat mcinaley
Speaker 1: is a kind of guy that if you're sitting in
Speaker 1: a room with him and you have a conversation, every
Speaker 1: single sentence you say, he can make a joke out
Speaker 1: of it. He can come up with some kind of humor.
Speaker 1: He is the most quick witted dude. And his humor
Speaker 1: can go all the way from wow sophistication of sarcasm
Speaker 1: to the end degree to you know, down and dirty
Speaker 1: with the best of them, and everything in between. Pat
Speaker 1: mcinelly is, he's a brilliant dude. And I remember many times,
Speaker 1: you know, I loved being around him, and he dogged
Speaker 1: me all the time because I get accepted to Harvard
Speaker 1: and didn't go. And he said, well, you know, I
Speaker 1: hesitate to be in your company, being that stupid, but
Speaker 1: at any rate, um I would go. I'd go into
Speaker 1: his room a lot at night, you know, after practices,
Speaker 1: and he'd he'd play a guitar, you know, strung along,
Speaker 1: and he'd write songs, you know, and write his own music. Right.
Speaker 1: So the guy he could do anything. There's nothing that
Speaker 1: Pat mcinelli couldn't do. So he made a pact basically said,
Speaker 1: you know, my goal lap him is to not work
Speaker 1: a day in my life and be a gazillionaire. And
Speaker 1: he hasn't had a real job in his life, and
Speaker 1: he's a gazillionaire. You know. At starting lineup he invented
Speaker 1: that Kenner toys. He went, you know, to all of
Speaker 1: his Harvard alum in all the leagues and got the rights.
Speaker 1: Went to Kenner Toys right here in Cincinnati. They jumped
Speaker 1: on and bought into it, simple deal, figuring with an
Speaker 1: autograph card and made a fortune. He was getting seven
Speaker 1: figure commission checks twice a year. Crazy. Then he started
Speaker 1: collecting first edition comic books in mint condition, made a fortune.
Speaker 1: He wrote his column you Know just for Kids, syndicated
Speaker 1: newspaper column while he was playing. All his Harvard connections
Speaker 1: around the cities got him into these newspapers. And the
Speaker 1: dude has been printing cash from the day he was
Speaker 1: able to print cash and will the rest of his life.
Speaker 1: He is. He is a very very unique, brilliant, bright
Speaker 1: minded guy, smartest guy I've ever been around. Glad you
Speaker 1: worked with somebody smart your lifetime. Thanks Lap. According to
Speaker 1: the website Pro Football Focus, none of the Bengals offensive
Speaker 1: linemen have a particularly high grade so far this year.
Speaker 1: Clint Bowling ranks highest at twenty eighth among the seventy
Speaker 1: four guards with enough snaps to qualify. But the old
Speaker 1: line could get a boost right after the bye as
Speaker 1: center Billy Price, the Bengals first round draft pick out
Speaker 1: of Ohio State could be back from his foot injury.
Speaker 1: I talked to Billy about that possibility on Tuesday inside
Speaker 1: the locker room with center Billy Price. By weekend this
Speaker 1: weekend and the Saints at home after that, do you
Speaker 1: expect to be back out there? Just following what protocol
Speaker 1: is right now with the docs. Got into practice last week,
Speaker 1: felt pretty good, so we're gonna take it into the
Speaker 1: rest of this week and then followed what they want
Speaker 1: minted next week. If it's not the Saints game. I
Speaker 1: think we're all pretty confident it's going to be soon
Speaker 1: and imagine you're eager to get back out there. Absolutely, Yeah,
Speaker 1: there's no pain right now. It feels good. And again
Speaker 1: we're just kind of falling falling with Paul Sparring and
Speaker 1: the guys inside the training room are asking me to do.
Speaker 1: How have you stayed on top of things mentally while
Speaker 1: you haven't been able to play? For me, it's making
Speaker 1: sure I'm sitting there with Coach Pollocks so during practice
Speaker 1: if I'm not participating, so in the previous weeks, sitting
Speaker 1: back there with the script and kind of going over
Speaker 1: the looks with Coach Pollock and I had a pen
Speaker 1: in my pocket or on my hat the entire time
Speaker 1: in writing down notes. Um, just to make sure that
Speaker 1: you're still sharp, manly with what the what the defensive
Speaker 1: pictures are going to be. You know, we haven't really
Speaker 1: played a lot of divisional guys, so M Pittsburgh was
Speaker 1: the only only team and then the rest of the
Speaker 1: Baltimore game. So I'm gonna be able to see these
Speaker 1: guys again. So making sure that I recognize some of
Speaker 1: the tendencies that these guys are presenting to us, just
Speaker 1: so when it comes down to the second time we
Speaker 1: play them that I'm it's not new information to me.
Speaker 1: You were an iron man at Ohio State. He never
Speaker 1: came out. How difficult has that been? Just having a
Speaker 1: leatch from the sideline, it's a different perspective. Um, I
Speaker 1: don't enjoy it. I can tell you that. Um, you know,
Speaker 1: it's just it's a it was a freaky injury. Especially
Speaker 1: I just got on top of a guy and you know,
Speaker 1: I told Coach Pollock, you know, got to improve my
Speaker 1: technique to make sure I don't put myself in that position. So, UM,
Speaker 1: it's just it's it's it's not a good feeling, especially
Speaker 1: when you know it's out of your control. So we're
Speaker 1: gonna make sure we do everything in our potential to
Speaker 1: make sure that we stay on the field. Were visiting
Speaker 1: Billy Price. Coach Lewis said early this week that the
Speaker 1: offensive line has steadily improved during the course of this season.
Speaker 1: How do you feel about the way the entire group
Speaker 1: has performed? You know, you know, I first informost got
Speaker 1: to tip my half to Trey Hopkins. That again, a
Speaker 1: guy somebody who's you know, when his number is called,
Speaker 1: he stepped into it and he's dominated every every single
Speaker 1: game from you know, we joke around my my one
Speaker 1: in a quarter game that I played and uh, you
Speaker 1: know with Indian in Baltimore, and then from him taking
Speaker 1: on those three quarters to Baltimore, uh and just really dominating.
Speaker 1: I think it's steady improvement. Um. You know, you see
Speaker 1: guys like you know, I mean the left side with
Speaker 1: the veterans are are performing you know, exceptional right now. Um,
Speaker 1: you know, Alex Redman continues to grow, Bobby continues to grow.
Speaker 1: I mean, I think it's as a whole as a group.
Speaker 1: To your point, guys are growing, Guys are continuing to
Speaker 1: develop that continuity, building that chemistry to that offensive lines
Speaker 1: need when it comes on a stretch sign All right,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna give you like the best case scenario. The
Speaker 1: injuries unfortunate. Stinks that you've missed much of the first
Speaker 1: half of your rookie season. But are you gonna be
Speaker 1: fresh for the second half and hopefully playoff games after
Speaker 1: That's that's the goal. That's the goal. So if you know,
Speaker 1: again we get cleared to play in the SAME's game,
Speaker 1: if we get cleared to play in the science game,
Speaker 1: you know those legs won't have that additional seven weeks
Speaker 1: that I have been sitting out on. So I'll be
Speaker 1: ready to bring a little pop and bring a little
Speaker 1: energy back into the run game, into the past game.
Speaker 1: Whenever my time is called to be back on the field,
Speaker 1: enjoy the buye. Look forward to seeing you back out
Speaker 1: there soon. Thank you can't wait either. Billy Price has
Speaker 1: been out of action since September thirteenth due to a
Speaker 1: partially torn ligament in his foot. After redshirting his first
Speaker 1: year at Ohio State, he started all fifty five possible
Speaker 1: games over the next four seasons to set the Buckeyes
Speaker 1: record for starts and consecutive games. Now time to hear
Speaker 1: from a special guest. You see him every week on CBS,
Speaker 1: on the NFL Today and on showtime on Inside the NFL.
Speaker 1: Or you can go to YouTube and watch the greatest
Speaker 1: performance by a quarterback in Super Bowl history twenty two
Speaker 1: for twenty five with three touchdown passes and a Super
Speaker 1: Bowl record passer rating of one fifty point nine. I
Speaker 1: am speaking of former New York Giants quarterback Phil Simms.
Speaker 1: He and Dave Lapham have been buddies for years, and
Speaker 1: Phil joined us this week the Bengals Game Plan show. Phil,
Speaker 1: thanks so much for joining us, and it's it's no
Speaker 1: shock that you're a legend in New York and a
Speaker 1: Hall of Fame player. My man, well you know I'm
Speaker 1: a legend because I'm not playing anymore. Phil Parcels would
Speaker 1: always say, Simms, just trust me, they're gonna love you
Speaker 1: once you quit playing. That's okay. And I didn't know
Speaker 1: I was on YouTube like that. Might just watch it
Speaker 1: today to boost my eagle all go. I need some
Speaker 1: help getting a little tired of watching these games, so
Speaker 1: getting myself going again. But look, always a pleasure to
Speaker 1: talk to you guys, and big Dave, I heard you
Speaker 1: a couple of weeks ago, you know, you were all
Speaker 1: over everything TV the throw against the Atlanta Falcons. Yeah, man,
Speaker 1: I thought, oh my god, I hope he didn't jump
Speaker 1: out of the booth because he's gonna splatter about ten
Speaker 1: people belowing. But it's really fun. You know. I love
Speaker 1: the calls of stuff like that by the home team announcers.
Speaker 1: It's just great because I know, I just looked to
Speaker 1: Call Banks, who does radio for the New York Giants,
Speaker 1: and I said, Carl, do you just are you still
Speaker 1: living and din with a team like you playing? He goes,
Speaker 1: it's not as bad, Bill, but it's close, and I said,
Speaker 1: oh my gosh, I can imagine. So good. Good for
Speaker 1: you for some good moments. And hey, you're five and three.
Speaker 1: I mean almost every team in the league would take
Speaker 1: five and three, except maybe team like the Rams. There's
Speaker 1: very few they can say the record is better than
Speaker 1: the Bengals right now. You know, that's that's what's going
Speaker 1: to be my first question, phil Um, because you know
Speaker 1: you're you've got your thumb on the pulse of the
Speaker 1: national opinions. And early on before the season started training camp,
Speaker 1: the Bengals weren't just under the radar. They were off
Speaker 1: the radar. I mean, nobody was even talking about the
Speaker 1: Cincinnati Bengals. And then they get off to a fast
Speaker 1: start four and one, but then they go to Kansas
Speaker 1: City and they lay an egg on on you know,
Speaker 1: Sunday night football, and it was same old Bengals, and
Speaker 1: they you know, basically blow an eighteen point lead, but
Speaker 1: do win the game at the gun against Tampa Bay.
Speaker 1: And they go into the bye week five and three
Speaker 1: as opposed to four and four, which is big. What
Speaker 1: do you think the national perspective on this football team
Speaker 1: is right now? Oh? I think there's just tons of
Speaker 1: question marks because of that, you know the fact that
Speaker 1: the way they lost to the Kansas City Chiefs, to
Speaker 1: lose a big lead to the to the Tampa Bay Buccaneers,
Speaker 1: and I just think, you know, you look and you
Speaker 1: know we talk about it all the time and show
Speaker 1: you look like ahead. You know, the pingles are five
Speaker 1: and three, And of course I work with two AFC
Speaker 1: North guys, Bill Kaward and Boomers Size who constantly talk
Speaker 1: about the division, so we keep up with it that way.
Speaker 1: But um, I think it's still you're still under the radar,
Speaker 1: and you know it's gonna take a big victory or
Speaker 1: something that separates yourself before people really get serious. I
Speaker 1: guess it's the best thing to say. And you know,
Speaker 1: and I got to be honest talking to you, and
Speaker 1: you and I talk occasionally that I look at the
Speaker 1: Bingals roster and I just go wow, okay, wow man.
Speaker 1: You know, even before the season, I went, gosh, dang
Speaker 1: they on paper it just looks like a not dead
Speaker 1: playoff team. And then they show moments I go, boy,
Speaker 1: I think here it goes. They're gonna roll and something
Speaker 1: derails it. And they don't a lot of that have
Speaker 1: to do. Now in the NFL, it is so much
Speaker 1: about matchups like I've never seen before. Ye and they're certain.
Speaker 1: It's like M says it all the time. Well the
Speaker 1: Bengals beat this team, and this team beats this team,
Speaker 1: and then the other team beats the Bengals, and I go, yeah,
Speaker 1: that reminds me of the NFC East, when we were
Speaker 1: all pretty good teams and it was we couldn't beat Philadelphia,
Speaker 1: Washington could beat Philadelphia, we could beat Washington, and you
Speaker 1: know that kind of thing. So and Washington couldn't beat us.
Speaker 1: So it's it is about matchups more than ever in style,
Speaker 1: and I've never seen anything like it in the NFL.
Speaker 1: On the offensive side, what's going on? So the games
Speaker 1: who played. I wasn't shocked that Tampa Bay came back
Speaker 1: because look at their offense. Yeah, I mean, look at
Speaker 1: the players. The system is designed to hammer the ball
Speaker 1: down the field. And you know, Fitzpatrick came in, took
Speaker 1: advantage to some things, and I think that's what catches
Speaker 1: me again. I finished the answer with this, I just
Speaker 1: expect more from the Bengals defense that I've seen. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: that's that's definitely been the Achilles heel. Before we get
Speaker 1: to the Bengals defense, let me ask you about quarterback
Speaker 1: play in the National Football League. And you know, the
Speaker 1: rules obviously favor of the offense. They want points in
Speaker 1: fantasy football is a five billion dollars industry. You know,
Speaker 1: they want points. They don't want nine to six, they
Speaker 1: want forty one thirty eight, you know, and and uh
Speaker 1: but here's here's a number. Interestingly enough, the Bengals next
Speaker 1: opponent is Drew Brees. After the bye, New Orleans Saints
Speaker 1: leads an all time leader in passing yards. He's he's
Speaker 1: thrown for forty two hundred yards or more twelve straight years.
Speaker 1: John Elway, Hall of Famer, never did it once in
Speaker 1: sixteen years that he was playing. So that tells you
Speaker 1: the difference in the era because the talent levels not
Speaker 1: the you know, the talent level is pretty pretty darn good.
Speaker 1: I mean, it's a different game, isn't it. It's a
Speaker 1: different game. I people say things to me, and I go, look,
Speaker 1: First off, if I was playing in the league now,
Speaker 1: I would change who I was as an athlete. You know,
Speaker 1: we were told hold that ball and stand in there,
Speaker 1: and if you flinch or don't throw it down the field,
Speaker 1: we'll take your big butt out. And that was that
Speaker 1: was the thing. I would throw a five yard pass
Speaker 1: and come to the the sideline and you know, third and
Speaker 1: eight and throw a five yard pass in the flat.
Speaker 1: They tackling and parcels going what are you doing? And I,
Speaker 1: you know, what do you? What do you mean that?
Speaker 1: There was nobody opening goes, oh, you're worried about your
Speaker 1: completion percentage? Is that what we're dealing with? That? And
Speaker 1: I but but the offenses, what would Dan Marino and
Speaker 1: John Elway doing today's game? Oh my gosh, they would
Speaker 1: be setting records like these other guys are. But it's
Speaker 1: the style of play. And Dave, we've never seen the time, Guys,
Speaker 1: we've never seen the time. We're running backs and wide
Speaker 1: receivers and tight ends. There's so many good ones. That
Speaker 1: really the advantage that the defense used to have, it's
Speaker 1: all gone. And I don't know where the advantage is
Speaker 1: for the defense anymore. Don't hit them here, don't hit
Speaker 1: them there. So that's one thing. So that makes people.
Speaker 1: I see guys pull off. You've seen it. That's a
Speaker 1: big thing. But I really give the rules and the coaches,
Speaker 1: the creativity, the deception they're given to defenses at all
Speaker 1: time high and that's why we're seeing so many great numbers.
Speaker 1: And trust me, these numbers start to fade a little
Speaker 1: bit as the year goes along. And we finished the year,
Speaker 1: the NFL will just go. You know, we did another rule.
Speaker 1: They helped us office a little more. And that's the
Speaker 1: life we live in. The fans love it. And you
Speaker 1: know what we all can say in the business that
Speaker 1: the fans keep loving it. I hear that, coach. So
Speaker 1: you mentioned the Bengals defense. Their last three games, Phil,
Speaker 1: they gave up four hundred and eighty one yards and
Speaker 1: twenty eight points to Ben Roethlisberger and the Steelers. They
Speaker 1: gave up five fifty one yards and forty five points
Speaker 1: to Patrick Mahomes and the Chiefs. And they just gave
Speaker 1: up five hundred and seventy six yards and thirty four
Speaker 1: points to both Winston and then Ryan Fitzpatrick sixteen hundred
Speaker 1: and eight yards. And you know, I mean, you're talking
Speaker 1: about over hundred points, well over one hundred points obviously,
Speaker 1: you know. Allowed what what do you guys see when
Speaker 1: you when you see the Bengals defense. Well, you know,
Speaker 1: I'll say this generally about the NFL. You know, I
Speaker 1: judge defense is a little different. Now I'm starting to like, Okay,
Speaker 1: I'm not looking at stats as much. I'm looking at
Speaker 1: you know, like I'll give you an example, like the
Speaker 1: Kansas City Chiefs. I look at them their defense, the ranks,
Speaker 1: the numbers, they're off the charts awful, right, and but
Speaker 1: but there's also the point of them. They have guys
Speaker 1: that make plays at the right time. D Ford justin
Speaker 1: Houston stopped back. Now, big guys in front, and they play,
Speaker 1: they play all out. In other words, they're not afraid
Speaker 1: of giving up a big play or that kind of thing.
Speaker 1: And I almost think that's what the league has got
Speaker 1: to turn into. You just gotta you just gotta realize
Speaker 1: you're gonna give up some points, but let's be more
Speaker 1: aggressive and see if we can get some turnovers and
Speaker 1: sacks and fumbles and stuff like that. That's what it's
Speaker 1: turned into. And you know, let's look at the LA Rams.
Speaker 1: They're giving up big yards the last couple of weeks.
Speaker 1: Just think of their game against Minnesota high scoring game.
Speaker 1: It was one of the best games that wat sall
Speaker 1: year on TV and I was like, wow, this is awesome.
Speaker 1: The game was on the line and what happened, Oh
Speaker 1: and Dominican sue but the sac Oh, Aaron Donald comes
Speaker 1: in sack strip full game over. And that's kind of
Speaker 1: what it is for the defense. You got to have
Speaker 1: a couple guys that can make a play and a
Speaker 1: crucial time to win games because the games are coming down.
Speaker 1: They're always close now because of the rules, and it's
Speaker 1: who can make the play at the end. And if
Speaker 1: you give most of these quarterbacks, I bet you there's
Speaker 1: fifteen quarterbacks in the NFL. If you said to me
Speaker 1: they get four turns from the twenty they got one
Speaker 1: time out and there's two minutes twenty seconds ago. You
Speaker 1: know what, I'd say, they're gonna wine and so you
Speaker 1: better have somebody on the defensive side that's going to
Speaker 1: really help you win the game. Now, I look at
Speaker 1: you guys, and I'm amazed. Geno Atkins, Carlos Dunlap, Hell
Speaker 1: do they ever age? And you know they're doing it,
Speaker 1: But I just don't understand the back end of it
Speaker 1: where I know there's so many good players high draft
Speaker 1: picks of course, that that's got to be maybe I
Speaker 1: don't want to say more aggressive. You know, I'm gonna
Speaker 1: watch the Bengals game that you just played this weekend
Speaker 1: here later today, and it's just it's it's a league.
Speaker 1: Like I say, I think you've really got to take
Speaker 1: more chances on defense than we have in the past,
Speaker 1: or most teams having a pass and I t I
Speaker 1: see some teams like the Kansas City Chiefs that are
Speaker 1: doing that knowing that their offense can cover them if
Speaker 1: they give up these big plays. I'll tell you, Phil,
Speaker 1: the Bengals defense falls into that category you're talking about.
Speaker 1: They're they're tied for fourth in the NFL with ten interceptions.
Speaker 1: They had eleven all year last year. They're tracking for
Speaker 1: twenty this year. They got thirteen take ways, tied for
Speaker 1: ninth in the league. They only had fourteen all year
Speaker 1: last year. They're tracking for twenty six this year. So
Speaker 1: and they've they've got four defensive touchdowns. Four different guys
Speaker 1: have scored for the defense that leads the NFL. And
Speaker 1: that's that's twelve point seven percent of the points that
Speaker 1: they've scored. I mean, the defense has been scoring for him.
Speaker 1: So like you say, you know, they may be given
Speaker 1: up yards, it maybe attract me. They else and boom
Speaker 1: they make a play and h and all of a
Speaker 1: sudden they help win the football game. Yeah, you don't
Speaker 1: to this yard thing. How we judge defense is you know,
Speaker 1: I don't even look at a lot of stuff anymore.
Speaker 1: I do look at run defense, and then I look
Speaker 1: to points scored a game. Yep. And you know, I'll
Speaker 1: go to the master of all time, and that's Bill Belichick.
Speaker 1: You know, year in and year out, they their defense
Speaker 1: is not ranking high because they have a formula. They're
Speaker 1: they're gonna play a lot of man to man. They're
Speaker 1: gonna make you throw good passes to beat them. But
Speaker 1: when you get down inside the closer, you get to
Speaker 1: the goal line, they're incredible. They always have a plan
Speaker 1: to go against you. And that's the other that's the
Speaker 1: other thing. There's a you know, I can't name them
Speaker 1: off the top of my head. That's sit and think
Speaker 1: about it. But I'd say there's about six teams in
Speaker 1: the league. They don't have a style of defense. Their
Speaker 1: defense is okay, so will we play this week? This
Speaker 1: is who will be And I call them game plan defenses.
Speaker 1: And and it's really you know, Baltimore is one of them.
Speaker 1: You watch Baltimore every week. It's a new plan. What
Speaker 1: they're gonna do over on the other side, And and
Speaker 1: of course that's the Patriots, and you it makes you think, Okay,
Speaker 1: how are they going to play us? What are they
Speaker 1: gonna do? All these things? And and it works inside
Speaker 1: the red zone, which is so important. It really is that.
Speaker 1: And I'm still a big believer in run defense. If
Speaker 1: you run defense is pretty good, then you're gonna get
Speaker 1: yourself in some situations where you know, Carlo Stunlab, Gino
Speaker 1: Atkins and other guys. You know, I got admit a
Speaker 1: little surprise as I looked at it. You know, last
Speaker 1: year you had the young guys on defense, Jordan Willis
Speaker 1: and Carl Lawson, and then and then you draft Sam Hubbard.
Speaker 1: That was this year, Sam Hubbard, Right, he's a rookie. Ye,
Speaker 1: well you dropped. I thought, Oh my gosh, say, are
Speaker 1: going to destroy quarterbacks with this group? And the point
Speaker 1: hasn't turned out that way, even though the sacks are
Speaker 1: it's good, But you know, I don't know. I still
Speaker 1: I think again, mate, Andy Dalton, until he wins the
Speaker 1: Super Bowl, nobody's ever gonna like give him any love,
Speaker 1: that's for sure. And I hey, you know me, the
Speaker 1: business drives me crazy things that people say and and
Speaker 1: all that. Oh well, Untilie gets it done in the playoffs.
Speaker 1: Oh okay, yeah, I forgot. Football is a one man game,
Speaker 1: that's right. Yes, so, but those are the way, that's
Speaker 1: what it is. And but the mingles in a great
Speaker 1: spot week off, fix a few things and we'll see
Speaker 1: where it goes in real quick. Did you like the
Speaker 1: bye week? What did you do on the byeway? What
Speaker 1: was that like for you? Well, she wasn't like the
Speaker 1: bad weeks they have now, right, Yeah, I mean you know,
Speaker 1: I played eight years with Bill Parcels and you know,
Speaker 1: Bie weeks were brutal. Jeez, you know they were allowed
Speaker 1: to you know, there, you play the game, you think
Speaker 1: it all, this is gonna be a nice leisure week.
Speaker 1: Well we had three practices and they were hard. It
Speaker 1: was like training camp again. Right, what's that? It's like
Speaker 1: training camp again. Right. It might not have been that bad,
Speaker 1: but it was closed. I'm going damn, I'm exhausted. I
Speaker 1: was hoping to get a little time off here. All right, guys,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna give you three days off and if any
Speaker 1: of you come back, you'll be hell to pay. And
Speaker 1: just you know, you're just like, oh my gosh, just
Speaker 1: but you know what it tells you something too. And
Speaker 1: I say this all the time. You know, winning and
Speaker 1: you know, as an ex player, winning can make you
Speaker 1: comfortable and and so you need a guy that always
Speaker 1: can create something to make you uncomfortable or see the bad.
Speaker 1: You know, Bill would give us a little love every
Speaker 1: once in a while, but that would only be and
Speaker 1: you know, I just I really believe this is a
Speaker 1: big thing in pro football. When we would lose, he
Speaker 1: would almost be more sympathetic. Come on, it's okay, Just
Speaker 1: keep doing. You know, he would be a little but
Speaker 1: when we won, it was to bring us back down
Speaker 1: to earth, tell us that you know, you better do
Speaker 1: this and this and everybody, and it really kept you
Speaker 1: on edge. And I said, every day I walked into
Speaker 1: that locker room, and I'm not exaggerating this, I felt pressure,
Speaker 1: and that pressure was, man, I need a good day
Speaker 1: of practice. Yeah, okay, I really got to practice well
Speaker 1: because oh my god, they've chewed my rear end out
Speaker 1: after practice is over yesterday and you know they were.
Speaker 1: It was. So the game is one. It's really hard, right,
Speaker 1: no doubt, it's really hard. So it's not human nature
Speaker 1: for it to go out and work that hard mentally
Speaker 1: and physically. And unless you have somebody driving that boat
Speaker 1: and doing that for you, I don't think you have
Speaker 1: a chance of achieving the success that you want. Our
Speaker 1: thanks to Phil Sims, and that's going to do it
Speaker 1: for this episode of the podcast. If you haven't done
Speaker 1: so already, don't forget to subscribe on iTunes, Stitcher, or
Speaker 1: pod Bean. And if you have a minute, please give
Speaker 1: us a rating or leave a comment. Your feedback is
Speaker 1: very much appreciated, and five star ratings help more Bengals
Speaker 1: fans find this podcast. I'm Dan Horde and thanks for
Speaker 1: listening to the Bengals Booth podcast