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Speaker 1: If you have your own story of being in a

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Speaker 1: cult or a high control group, or if you've had

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Speaker 1: an experience with manipulation or abuse of power you'd like

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Speaker 1: to share, leave us a message on our hotline number

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Speaker 1: at five one three nine hundred two nine five five,

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Speaker 1: or she.

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Speaker 2: Had us an email at trust Me pod at gmail

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Speaker 2: dot com.

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Speaker 3: Trust me, Trust trust Me.

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Speaker 2: I'm like a swat person.

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Speaker 3: I've never lived to you.

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Speaker 4: And we never have a live.

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Speaker 1: If you think that one person has all the answers,

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Speaker 1: don't welcome to trust Me. The podcast about cults, extreme

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Speaker 1: belief and the abusive power from two suckers who've actually

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Speaker 1: experienced it. I am Lula Blanc and I'm Megan Elizabeth,

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Speaker 1: and today is part two of our interview with Natasha Mallin,

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Speaker 1: author of The First fifty, a saga of backseats, bedrooms,

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Speaker 1: look at Points, and dive bars. She's also a survivor

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Speaker 1: of a group that she calls a therapy cult.

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Speaker 2: In this week's episode, we're going to discuss the trauma

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Speaker 2: bonding that happened within the group, how the messed up

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Speaker 2: thing is that the program was actually working until it wasn't,

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Speaker 2: and how maintaining even a few connections to the outside

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Speaker 2: world can be instrument and shaking you out of the trance.

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Speaker 1: And we'll hear all about how that worked for her

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Speaker 1: and how she actually left the group. So before we

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Speaker 1: get into it, Megan, won't you tell me what the

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Speaker 1: cultiest thing that happened to you this week was?

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Speaker 2: Oh gosh, there's so much, but I think I'm gonna

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Speaker 2: go with me trying to find some youth serums.

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Speaker 3: Okay, so the cult of youth is.

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Speaker 2: Really really permeating my brain and consciousness and decision making skills,

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Speaker 2: and god, you know, serum is expensive.

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Speaker 4: It is.

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Speaker 2: It's really expensive, and so you really have to be

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Speaker 2: in a bad place to spend some of that money

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Speaker 2: or a.

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Speaker 1: Really good place. Oh you're like, I have endless money, right,

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Speaker 1: and I'll try anything that would be the very correct

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Speaker 1: way to look at it, to look at it.

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Speaker 3: I'm looking at it as.

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Speaker 2: Like, wowo this they really got me to think that

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Speaker 2: this is the only option.

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Speaker 1: I gotta say, real skeptical of the serum. Oh for sure,

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Speaker 1: for sure, there's very little evidence that almost any of

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Speaker 1: those products work, except for retinoids.

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Speaker 2: I was gonna say, obviously, you know, if you have

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Speaker 2: Retten on something.

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Speaker 3: It's gonna work.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, but it's like, you know, don't get me started. Okay,

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Speaker 1: oh even get me started. Oh no, First of all, whatever,

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Speaker 1: I'm not like obsessed with the Ordinary, but they are

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Speaker 1: selling the same products at the Ordinary that are like

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Speaker 1: eight to twelve dollars that you find at other companies

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Speaker 1: that are like one hundred fucking dollars. They don't need

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Speaker 1: to be. It's completely unnecessary the scam, that is my

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Speaker 1: personal opinion. And what products are will you not sponsored

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Speaker 1: by the Ordinary? Well not, and I actually I think

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Speaker 1: the owner's a bad person. But it just goes to

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Speaker 1: show that, like those ingredients are not inherently that expensive.

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Speaker 1: There's no reason for them to be that right, right,

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Speaker 1: What was the question? What particular products are floating your boat?

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Speaker 3: Right now? I just ordered a toner and a serum

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Speaker 3: and a lash booster, so I don't know.

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Speaker 1: Okay, well, a lash booster's legit that.

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Speaker 3: Well, that's fun, that's exciting.

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Speaker 2: I already have eyelashes so that when I put on

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Speaker 2: mascara it gets in my eyebrows.

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Speaker 3: So I don't know why I'm.

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Speaker 2: Doing this, but wait, lucky yeah kind of, I guess,

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Speaker 2: but not really something you want but literally will get

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Speaker 2: mascara in my eyebrows.

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Speaker 1: That's crazy.

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Speaker 2: I did not.

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Speaker 1: I'm looking at you right now, but it's dark in

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Speaker 1: here and I can't tell that you are saying that's

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Speaker 1: you don't you shouldn't even do that. No, I'm going

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Speaker 1: but they're gonna grow past your eye now you'll want that.

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Speaker 3: I want to curl them into my bangs.

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Speaker 1: Is the new unibrow?

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Speaker 3: Folks?

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Speaker 2: All right, okay, what's the cultiest thing that happened to

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Speaker 2: you this week?

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Speaker 1: I'm just fascinated with the fact that for nine to eleven,

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Speaker 1: the twenty year anniversary our former President Donald Trump, instead

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Speaker 1: of you know, like going to the memorial or like

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Speaker 1: doing something that would you know, potentially be respectful to

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Speaker 1: our country, he gave a speech to the Unification Church,

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Speaker 1: which is also known as Folks, you may remember the Moonies,

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Speaker 1: Steve's cult, Steve Hassen's cult, yes, which they are a

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Speaker 1: big church still. I think they've like toned down some

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Speaker 1: of their tactics. They used to be pretty extreme, but.

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Speaker 3: It is borring.

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Speaker 1: Historically, a cult like this is a cult, and it's

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Speaker 1: really interesting to me. He's like, you know, Steve talks

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Speaker 1: a lot about the intersection of all these cults, and

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Speaker 1: I'm like, I tend to err on the side of

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Speaker 1: not being that into conspiracies or conspiracy theories, but it

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Speaker 1: is fascinating because this church is like a huge Trump supporter.

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Speaker 1: They own the Washington Times, that newspaper. It's like a

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Speaker 1: conservative newspaper. Trump thanked them for supporting him, which they

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Speaker 1: absolutely did. And then also just a side note, something

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Speaker 1: that I didn't know this is fascinating, is that there

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Speaker 1: was a couple the Moons. The Moons. Yeah, there was

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Speaker 1: Reverend Moon and then he died and now it's his

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Speaker 1: wife and it supposedly he was Jesus, but then he died,

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Speaker 1: so that's weird. But now his wife is the one

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Speaker 1: leading the church. So they had kids together, and their kids,

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Speaker 1: they have two sons who then formed an offshoot group

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Speaker 1: of the Unification Church in America. So check this out.

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Speaker 1: They worship while carrying AR fifteen rifles. There are photos

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Speaker 1: of them at church, just a church service where everyone

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Speaker 1: is wearing a crown and carrying a fucking AR fifteen rifle. Okay,

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Speaker 1: they think that there's a part in the Bible that

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Speaker 1: talks about like God's I'm gonna forget the term they

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Speaker 1: used God's Eye iron Do you know what?

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Speaker 4: Do you know what we just.

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Speaker 1: Talked about this iron rod? Maybe that's what it was.

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Speaker 1: They think that that is literally referring to the AR

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Speaker 1: fifteen gun that has been the gun that has killed

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Speaker 1: many many people mass shootings.

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Speaker 3: Right.

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Speaker 1: There is also a forty acre compound in Texas that

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Speaker 1: says it is a safe haven THOROUGHLTREUS. They love Trump.

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Speaker 1: They're own there always is.

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Speaker 4: So you know, you have like.

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Speaker 1: Your Quanon people, and you have like your sort of

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Speaker 1: America Maga cult people, but then you have like this

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Speaker 1: actual other cult with its offshoot cult, and they're all

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Speaker 1: like intersecting with the cult of Trump. It's fascinating.

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Speaker 3: Oh, it's so exciting.

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Speaker 1: Wow, I don't know what it was that word.

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Speaker 2: I mean, I'm at the point where I'm just like

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Speaker 2: watching the world burn. Might as well be a little

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Speaker 2: bit like, Okay, how is this gonna happen?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, dude, these past couple of weeks, I mean, look,

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Speaker 1: I've been pretty self absorbed lately because of the mental

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Speaker 1: health stuff that I'm dealing with and also because of

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Speaker 1: my happy new relationship.

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Speaker 3: Uh uh, But the past two weeks.

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Speaker 1: Every time I look at the news, I'm like, what

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Speaker 1: the fuck?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, literally, the world is.

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Speaker 1: Ending, and like not in a Christian any way, but

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Speaker 1: like in a climate change way. And also we're just

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Speaker 1: destroying ourselves and don't learn our lessons as ever humanity.

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Speaker 2: I mean, I cannot learn my lesson at all. There's

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Speaker 2: like one lesson that the universe has been trying to

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Speaker 2: teach me for my whole life.

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Speaker 1: And I'm like, nope, okay, well you have to tell

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Speaker 1: us what that lesson.

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Speaker 2: I'm just like, hey, you're your ultimate power, like turn

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Speaker 2: to yourself.

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Speaker 3: You have the answers.

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Speaker 2: I'm like, ello, al, You're hilarious, Like, there's no way

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Speaker 2: I'm doing that.

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Speaker 1: Literally, this entire podcast is trying to teach you exactly.

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Speaker 1: It's in you, Megan. I can see it right there,

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Speaker 1: right in my booby. It's in your booth. You just

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Speaker 1: didn't look deep enough.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, all right, Well we got to get our shit together, guys.

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Speaker 2: Like everybody knows, there's lessons that you're you gotta incorporate.

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Speaker 1: We have to learn to stop destroying our planet.

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Speaker 3: Oh let's not go that far.

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Speaker 1: Well, and what that's destroying her planet?

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Speaker 3: And what and be.

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Speaker 1: Nice to eat chata for Fox's sake, Jesus Christ speaking

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Speaker 1: of nice Natasha so nice, she's so cool, so charismatic. Guys,

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Speaker 1: we want to join Natasha's.

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Speaker 3: Cult if she ever starts one. She has two members.

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Speaker 1: I love that she acknowledged her own charisma. Dude, do

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Speaker 1: you remember when she heard yes, Yes, she knows, she

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Speaker 1: fucking knows it's cool. She's a benign charismatic leader.

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Speaker 2: Exactly until she isn't just kidding.

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Speaker 1: Okay, all right, well let's get into that interview with her,

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Speaker 1: and now.

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Speaker 2: Okay, so before we talk about the veil starting to lift,

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Speaker 2: what did it look like when you were in the

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Speaker 2: thick of it. Did you have relationships with people not

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Speaker 2: in it, like friendships? And were you talking to your family.

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Speaker 4: Or neither of those things? Like?

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Speaker 3: No, fucking way.

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Speaker 4: About a year into it, nothing that had made sense

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Speaker 4: made sense anymore, h including my relationship with my family,

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Speaker 4: including all my friendships that weren't friendships within the Intimacy project.

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Speaker 4: I didn't know how to be a part of that

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Speaker 4: world and then have this other world that didn't include

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Speaker 4: the Intimacy Project. I also was like for the first time,

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Speaker 4: like recognizing what some of my early childhood traumas were

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Speaker 4: and you know, the agreements that I still had with

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Speaker 4: my family about what kind of a person I am

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Speaker 4: within the family. And as we were deconditioning ourselves and

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Speaker 4: as we were erasing our personal history, I found it

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Speaker 4: like near impossible to maintain a normal relationship with my

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Speaker 4: mom and my brother and my dad. As I was

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Speaker 4: kind of uncovering, like what are these patterns of thought

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Speaker 4: and behavior? Wow, that I have been engaging in with

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Speaker 4: them my whole life, you know that I've been like

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Speaker 4: really conditioned to be in.

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Speaker 1: So did you find that your definition of working? I

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Speaker 1: guess at the time, did you feel like the program

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Speaker 1: was working for you? Like was it doing the things

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Speaker 1: that you wanted it to do?

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Speaker 4: Yeah? Actually, And that's like the weird part. That's the

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Speaker 4: weird part, because I was actually doing really intense, beautiful

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Speaker 4: work and learning all kinds of things about like patterns

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Speaker 4: that existed within my family that I always knew physically

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Speaker 4: and emotionally, but I could never articulate properly or like,

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Speaker 4: you know, certain ideas that I had about myself and

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Speaker 4: kind of uncovering the origin of how I created those ideas,

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Speaker 4: Like that stuff was all really real. But you know,

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Speaker 4: way early on, like about a year in, it became

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Speaker 4: clear that I was struggling with my relationships outside of

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Speaker 4: the Intimacy Project, and just as like, you know, the

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Speaker 4: most innocent suggestion in the universe. He just suggested that

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Speaker 4: maybe I break ties with people and just see how that.

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Speaker 1: Felt for a while. So I did, wow with everyone,

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Speaker 1: did you like call them up and have a conversation

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Speaker 1: or you just started posting people?

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Speaker 3: Oh you did?

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Speaker 4: I mean most people. There are a few friends that

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Speaker 4: I think. I was like, I feel so awful saying

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Speaker 4: this now, but it's the truth. I was in such

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Speaker 4: a fucking shitty mental space. Like he had simultaneously like

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Speaker 4: built up our egos to such a degree because of

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Speaker 4: the work that we were doing. We were so goddamn special,

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Speaker 4: and while he was like tearing us down on the

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Speaker 4: other hand, So like there were certain friendships that I

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Speaker 4: was like, you know what this, I'm not going to

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Speaker 4: give this any fucking time. Forget it, you know, and

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Speaker 4: I would just walk away from them. And these poor

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Speaker 4: friends of mine were like where did she go? You know?

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Speaker 4: With my family, I had like conversations I called them

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Speaker 4: individually and was like I'm resigning from my relationship with you.

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Speaker 3: That was wow, Wow, my god, what did they say?

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Speaker 4: Oh? What do you say to that? I mean, it's like, oh,

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Speaker 4: like what do you say? Yeah, they flip They've flipped out. Yeah,

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Speaker 4: it's awful, you know, like a daughter calling you and

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Speaker 4: being like, I'm resigning from my relationship with you as

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Speaker 4: a daughter. Like what, Oh my god?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I get it.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, and so oh you know then god damn it,

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Speaker 4: you guys. Like I was so proud of myself, Like

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Speaker 4: I was so in it at that point that I

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Speaker 4: was so proud of myself because in a lot of ways,

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Speaker 4: it really was the first time I really stood up

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Speaker 4: to my family and made a decision I thought at

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Speaker 4: the time that was like, look, this is a decision

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Speaker 4: I'm making not for you, not through my codependent attachment

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Speaker 4: to you, but like because I'm doing something that's important

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Speaker 4: to me of my own personal growth. So I was

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Speaker 4: so self righteous and so proud of myself, even though

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Speaker 4: I was bawling my eyes out as I was doing it,

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Speaker 4: you know. And then I had this group to come

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Speaker 4: to that would celebrate this with me and congratulate me

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Speaker 4: for it, and it was like this overwhelming relief in

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Speaker 4: a lot of ways because in some ways I felt

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Speaker 4: like I was coming home. I was coming home to

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Speaker 4: this like other family that had my back, and what

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Speaker 4: I imagined at the time was a more real.

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Speaker 2: Way, right right, for a more real you in your mind.

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Speaker 4: In my mind, you know, which is ironically the thing

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Speaker 4: we were supposed to be destroying.

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Speaker 1: But whatever were you working? Like, what was your life

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Speaker 1: like outside of the interesting.

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Speaker 4: Project I was working. I was working as a nanny

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Speaker 4: at the time, and that was challenging during all of

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Speaker 4: this stuff. I think it was challenging for me, for sure.

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Speaker 4: It was also challenging for the family. You know. I

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Speaker 4: think I was becoming whatever I was becoming, and there

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Speaker 4: were certain times that I would come to them with

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Speaker 4: certain ideas that I think they found really bizarre and weird.

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Speaker 4: You know. I tried really hard to keep my like

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Speaker 4: intimacy project stuff in my work separate. But you know,

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Speaker 4: when you work with a family intimately, you're you're in

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Speaker 4: their home, like you see everything, right, but you're also

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Speaker 4: it's not supposed to see it, you know, because you're

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Speaker 4: an employee, but you're also there and you can't not

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Speaker 4: see it, and you work intimately with their children. So

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Speaker 4: it was just this like really weird time and I

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Speaker 4: would come to stand with all of these questions of like, well,

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Speaker 4: I saw this, and how would I approach this? And

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Speaker 4: you know, I'm learning about raising kids at the same

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Speaker 4: time that the parents are learning about raising kids, and

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Speaker 4: we're all just sort of like kind of the blind

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Speaker 4: leading the blind. I don't think that I was the

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Speaker 4: best Natasha that I can be in my time with them.

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Speaker 4: I don't think I was the worst Natasha I could be.

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Speaker 4: I think, you know, I did the best that I

291
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Speaker 4: could keeping those two things separate. But there were times

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Speaker 4: that the boundaries got kind of erased in really weird ways.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And did you find that working like kept you

294
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Speaker 1: sort of tethered to the real world at all or

295
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Speaker 1: not really for sure?

296
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Speaker 4: For Yeah, to be able to like leave that world

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Speaker 4: and then come into this other world that was a

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Speaker 4: family unit that was like people that I started to

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Speaker 4: become friends with that weren't associated with the Intimacy Project

300
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Speaker 4: in any way, shape or form was really helpful in

301
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Speaker 4: a lot of ways. And I think Stan was alert

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Speaker 4: to that and encouraged me because he would hear me

303
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Speaker 4: lament often about work and things that I was seeing

304
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Speaker 4: and whatever, and he was very encouraging of like me

305
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Speaker 4: trying to get the couple into sessions.

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Speaker 3: With him, and that was the thing.

307
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Speaker 4: That was a thing that thank god didn't work out.

308
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Speaker 4: But it got to the point where the father ended

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Speaker 4: up calling Stan because he was like, well, Natasha said

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Speaker 4: that I should call you.

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Speaker 1: Oh wow.

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Speaker 4: It was really ugly. Honestly, it didn't go very well,

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Speaker 4: but I actually shamed by stand for that.

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Speaker 3: He was I was just going to say, like, yeah.

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Speaker 4: You do that, and I'm like, because you literally told

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Speaker 4: me to Like, I'm.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, like I can feel how that whole situation would

318
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Speaker 2: feel really shameful and to speak to that.

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Speaker 3: There's just so much of it that like makes sense.

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Speaker 2: You know, you're working on yourself, doing real work, and

321
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Speaker 2: then you see a child, but you don't want to

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Speaker 2: have to go through the same shit as you or

323
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Speaker 2: like patterns and whatever. So it just is a perfect

324
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Speaker 2: storm in my eyes, because there is real shit in it.

325
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Speaker 2: That's the hard part.

326
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Speaker 4: That is the hard part.

327
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Speaker 3: There's real gold in there. So it's just fucking.

328
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Speaker 1: There always is though, there always is, there always is.

329
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Speaker 4: Yeah, Yeah, there's definitely things that I did that I'm

330
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Speaker 4: ashamed of like in that whole like being super in

331
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Speaker 4: it thing. Like I said, I have a tendency, at

332
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Speaker 4: least historically, had a tendency to be really committed and

333
00:16:56,760 --> 00:17:01,520
Speaker 4: really zealous about certain things. And so, you know, in

334
00:17:01,640 --> 00:17:05,720
Speaker 4: order to show my commitment to the work or discipline

335
00:17:05,840 --> 00:17:10,199
Speaker 4: or whatever it was, you know, I would participate in

336
00:17:10,280 --> 00:17:14,239
Speaker 4: things that were just like awful. Like they were just

337
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Speaker 4: like awful. We used to do this thing which is

338
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Speaker 4: not exclusive to us by any means, because like absolutely

339
00:17:21,720 --> 00:17:23,920
Speaker 4: nothing that was said or done in the Intimacy project

340
00:17:24,080 --> 00:17:27,840
Speaker 4: like was birthed in Stan's mind. It all came from

341
00:17:28,440 --> 00:17:32,000
Speaker 4: a million different pieces of information. But you know, we

342
00:17:32,040 --> 00:17:36,000
Speaker 4: would sit in a circle and put somebody in the

343
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Speaker 4: middle of the circle with whatever their issue was, and

344
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Speaker 4: we on the outside of the circle would represent the

345
00:17:45,480 --> 00:17:49,359
Speaker 4: dark mirrors for them, right, So they would start saying

346
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Speaker 4: whatever their issue was, and then we were invited allowed

347
00:17:54,040 --> 00:18:01,760
Speaker 4: whatever our position was to be as brutal to them

348
00:18:01,920 --> 00:18:06,280
Speaker 4: as their mind could be. And so it would be

349
00:18:06,400 --> 00:18:09,880
Speaker 4: like really insulting. It would be like taking everything that

350
00:18:09,920 --> 00:18:13,919
Speaker 4: this beautiful human being shared with you through the grace

351
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Speaker 4: of intimacy and throwing it in their face and shaming

352
00:18:17,560 --> 00:18:21,600
Speaker 4: them for it in order to break them down. Wow, right,

353
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Speaker 4: break down the quote unquote conditioning to get to the

354
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Speaker 4: root of what was really there for the person that

355
00:18:29,480 --> 00:18:32,600
Speaker 4: was some of the ugliest that I've ever been in

356
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Speaker 4: my life.

357
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Speaker 1: Really yeah, Oh, that's so horrible, and like, I can't

358
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Speaker 1: imagine how traumatizing an experience that must be for the

359
00:18:41,760 --> 00:18:45,080
Speaker 1: person in the middle. First of all, what's actually happening,

360
00:18:45,119 --> 00:18:47,440
Speaker 1: clearly is just the total breaking down of the self,

361
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Speaker 1: which then leads to allegiance to the group of the leader.

362
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Speaker 1: What was he teaching was underneath the conditioning, like.

363
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Speaker 4: Your essence, your cororotic nature, your true nature, like who

364
00:18:59,400 --> 00:19:04,719
Speaker 4: you were before your parents fucked you into existence a baby,

365
00:19:04,880 --> 00:19:06,480
Speaker 4: That's what I say.

366
00:19:06,160 --> 00:19:08,440
Speaker 3: Are like a spark of the infinite kind.

367
00:19:08,200 --> 00:19:11,080
Speaker 4: Of kind of you know, like whatever your name was

368
00:19:11,119 --> 00:19:12,600
Speaker 4: before someone gave you a name.

369
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Speaker 1: Okay, wow, gosh.

370
00:19:16,680 --> 00:19:20,359
Speaker 4: I want to say because I was both oftentimes in

371
00:19:20,440 --> 00:19:23,720
Speaker 4: the center of the circle, like and not. I was

372
00:19:23,720 --> 00:19:26,439
Speaker 4: in the center of the circle, but also I was

373
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Speaker 4: on the outside of the circle, and I just have

374
00:19:29,600 --> 00:19:36,119
Speaker 4: to say that both positions are incredibly traumatizing, Like speaking

375
00:19:36,240 --> 00:19:40,679
Speaker 4: to somebody you love like that and being encouraged and

376
00:19:40,760 --> 00:19:46,200
Speaker 4: congratulated for it is awful. I mean, it's just awful.

377
00:19:47,280 --> 00:19:49,479
Speaker 1: How did it feel afterward? Like was there a feeling

378
00:19:49,480 --> 00:19:50,040
Speaker 1: of release?

379
00:19:50,280 --> 00:19:52,879
Speaker 4: Like what was just like a rush of endorphins? Are

380
00:19:52,920 --> 00:19:56,480
Speaker 4: you kidding me? After and the person's crying and you know,

381
00:19:56,640 --> 00:20:00,679
Speaker 4: finally seeing with their whole being and their eyes and

382
00:20:00,720 --> 00:20:02,760
Speaker 4: they're like, oh, that's what was at the root of

383
00:20:02,800 --> 00:20:06,119
Speaker 4: all of that. And then there's this like amazing discussion

384
00:20:06,200 --> 00:20:08,199
Speaker 4: that goes around and they come out of the circle

385
00:20:08,240 --> 00:20:10,080
Speaker 4: and then we're back as a group and we're all

386
00:20:10,119 --> 00:20:13,520
Speaker 4: talking about the process. Like it's a full on rush

387
00:20:13,560 --> 00:20:16,600
Speaker 4: of endorphins. It's like, you know, if you're gonna put

388
00:20:16,640 --> 00:20:20,520
Speaker 4: someone in bondage and consensually beat the shit out of

389
00:20:20,560 --> 00:20:23,960
Speaker 4: them when you caress them after, it's the full on

390
00:20:24,160 --> 00:20:30,120
Speaker 4: like pleasure center totally exploding in fireworks, you know. And

391
00:20:30,160 --> 00:20:34,320
Speaker 4: so it would just bond us further and feel amazing.

392
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Speaker 1: Right, you're fully trauma bonding at that point. I just

393
00:20:37,880 --> 00:20:40,320
Speaker 1: finished the body keeps the score. Finally, it sounds like

394
00:20:40,520 --> 00:20:43,040
Speaker 1: a therapeutic tool I'm forgetting the name of that he

395
00:20:43,119 --> 00:20:45,520
Speaker 1: describes in the book, where it's like they have people

396
00:20:45,560 --> 00:20:47,439
Speaker 1: in a group and they're acting out the traumas. But

397
00:20:47,520 --> 00:20:49,840
Speaker 1: then the point of the exercise is to heal the

398
00:20:49,920 --> 00:20:53,399
Speaker 1: trauma and to like be kind to yourself and to

399
00:20:53,480 --> 00:20:56,159
Speaker 1: like stand up to yourself and whatever. It sounds like

400
00:20:56,200 --> 00:20:58,760
Speaker 1: the absolute opposite of that. So it's actually just like

401
00:20:58,960 --> 00:21:01,560
Speaker 1: worsening all of the tram instead of healing the drama,

402
00:21:01,600 --> 00:21:03,919
Speaker 1: which sounds like a recipe for harm.

403
00:21:04,280 --> 00:21:07,280
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, you know, through leaving the group and

404
00:21:07,320 --> 00:21:11,399
Speaker 4: through processing with the other person who was like the

405
00:21:11,400 --> 00:21:15,159
Speaker 4: most dedicated, like way more dedicated than me, she was

406
00:21:15,200 --> 00:21:19,560
Speaker 4: basically his apprentice. Like what we both came to was

407
00:21:20,000 --> 00:21:23,000
Speaker 4: all of those things that we were taught were always

408
00:21:23,080 --> 00:21:27,679
Speaker 4: taught without compassion and without love because the person that

409
00:21:27,880 --> 00:21:33,800
Speaker 4: was teaching us could mimic compassion and could mimic love,

410
00:21:34,480 --> 00:21:38,359
Speaker 4: but ultimately was incapable of it in a lot of ways.

411
00:21:39,720 --> 00:21:43,280
Speaker 4: And so, you know, love, as far as he was concerned,

412
00:21:43,320 --> 00:21:45,840
Speaker 4: was like what sort of agreements can you make? You know,

413
00:21:46,200 --> 00:21:49,480
Speaker 4: It wasn't this like kind There was no kindness there.

414
00:21:49,760 --> 00:21:53,199
Speaker 4: It just wasn't. It wasn't a part of it, you know.

415
00:21:53,400 --> 00:21:56,240
Speaker 4: And so yeah, it's like re traumatizing in a lot

416
00:21:56,280 --> 00:21:59,680
Speaker 4: of ways, and when you're in it, you can't necessarily

417
00:21:59,720 --> 00:22:06,159
Speaker 4: tell because that flood of endorphins afterwards feels like, I

418
00:22:06,160 --> 00:22:09,840
Speaker 4: don't know, adjacent to kindness, definitely feels adjacent to love,

419
00:22:10,359 --> 00:22:12,600
Speaker 4: you know, and it's like, oh, this person, this man

420
00:22:12,720 --> 00:22:16,120
Speaker 4: really loves me. We really love each other because look

421
00:22:16,160 --> 00:22:18,520
Speaker 4: what we can get through, you know, which is like

422
00:22:19,920 --> 00:22:23,480
Speaker 4: any family and therapists will tell you like, that's.

423
00:22:23,240 --> 00:22:31,000
Speaker 1: Not love, babe. So all this is happening, at what

424
00:22:31,080 --> 00:22:33,960
Speaker 1: point do you begin to feel like something it might

425
00:22:33,960 --> 00:22:34,399
Speaker 1: be wrong?

426
00:22:35,000 --> 00:22:37,879
Speaker 4: Okay, oh there. I mean, I've got a lot of

427
00:22:37,920 --> 00:22:40,080
Speaker 4: stories in here, so we would try to like keep

428
00:22:40,160 --> 00:22:43,760
Speaker 4: them concise and brief. But the first time I started

429
00:22:43,800 --> 00:22:48,160
Speaker 4: feeling like something might be wrong was I invited a

430
00:22:48,240 --> 00:22:50,600
Speaker 4: friend of mine to come to one of our like

431
00:22:50,720 --> 00:22:54,399
Speaker 4: Thursday Annex meetings where we drank wine and talked about

432
00:22:54,400 --> 00:22:57,920
Speaker 4: this shit. Right, And she had never met anyone before,

433
00:22:58,000 --> 00:23:00,920
Speaker 4: and you know, had only heard about Stay and peripherally

434
00:23:00,960 --> 00:23:04,080
Speaker 4: through me, and was such a great friend in that

435
00:23:04,200 --> 00:23:07,119
Speaker 4: she reserved judgment, you know, not like some of my

436
00:23:07,160 --> 00:23:08,919
Speaker 4: other friends that were like, you're in a fucking cult.

437
00:23:09,240 --> 00:23:14,040
Speaker 4: She well, I don't know everything, but so she came

438
00:23:14,080 --> 00:23:17,520
Speaker 4: to a meeting we were all drinking and We're sitting

439
00:23:17,600 --> 00:23:22,119
Speaker 4: around this table and a man comes down. We're sitting

440
00:23:22,359 --> 00:23:24,800
Speaker 4: around a table outside like in a patio that's on

441
00:23:24,840 --> 00:23:28,640
Speaker 4: the sidewalk, right, and Stan's chair is basically in the sidewalk,

442
00:23:28,680 --> 00:23:32,200
Speaker 4: and a man comes wheeling down the sidewalk in his

443
00:23:32,760 --> 00:23:37,240
Speaker 4: wheelchair and stands sort of unaware of it, and the

444
00:23:37,359 --> 00:23:42,119
Speaker 4: man kind of stops and sort of asks, or doesn't

445
00:23:42,160 --> 00:23:44,359
Speaker 4: really ask Stan to move. We're sort of like, hey, Stan,

446
00:23:44,600 --> 00:23:46,800
Speaker 4: you know, move the guys coming down in his wheelchair,

447
00:23:47,119 --> 00:23:49,280
Speaker 4: and he's in a huff and irritated by it and

448
00:23:49,359 --> 00:23:53,320
Speaker 4: moves right. So some time passes and we're all kind

449
00:23:53,359 --> 00:23:55,920
Speaker 4: of processing this and we're like, well, that was weird

450
00:23:55,960 --> 00:23:57,720
Speaker 4: that you didn't just get up and let the man

451
00:23:57,840 --> 00:24:01,000
Speaker 4: go by. And Stan's going on this whole about how

452
00:24:01,080 --> 00:24:03,919
Speaker 4: you know, it's not his fault that the guy's in

453
00:24:03,960 --> 00:24:06,240
Speaker 4: a wheelchair, and if the guy needs him to move,

454
00:24:06,320 --> 00:24:08,840
Speaker 4: he needs to say and it's just like really far

455
00:24:09,000 --> 00:24:11,159
Speaker 4: out there shit that if you hadn't been around this

456
00:24:11,280 --> 00:24:13,360
Speaker 4: man and this was the first time you were meeting him,

457
00:24:13,400 --> 00:24:17,600
Speaker 4: you'd be like, Jesus, what an asshole? What ablest?

458
00:24:18,080 --> 00:24:18,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's fine.

459
00:24:19,160 --> 00:24:21,200
Speaker 2: It's nice when they just like cut straight to the

460
00:24:21,240 --> 00:24:25,160
Speaker 2: heart of it, and you're just like, oh, total and yeah.

461
00:24:24,880 --> 00:24:29,600
Speaker 4: You know, I'm way more aware of like how he

462
00:24:29,920 --> 00:24:33,639
Speaker 4: is perceived because my friend is there and it's the

463
00:24:33,680 --> 00:24:37,280
Speaker 4: first time she's meeting them, and part of me is like, well, yeah,

464
00:24:37,280 --> 00:24:38,680
Speaker 4: that's kind of how he is. He's kind of a

465
00:24:38,800 --> 00:24:41,600
Speaker 4: raging dickhead, you know, but there's brilliance in there or whatever.

466
00:24:41,640 --> 00:24:43,840
Speaker 4: And then the other part of me is horrified, like

467
00:24:44,080 --> 00:24:47,840
Speaker 4: just absolutely horrified by some of the things that stand

468
00:24:48,000 --> 00:24:51,560
Speaker 4: saying about. You know, it's not his responsibility to make

469
00:24:51,640 --> 00:24:54,080
Speaker 4: way for these people, and if they need him to

470
00:24:54,119 --> 00:24:57,920
Speaker 4: make ways, they need to sit in their own power

471
00:24:58,080 --> 00:25:01,160
Speaker 4: and speak up about it. Like just really wild shit.

472
00:25:01,760 --> 00:25:04,840
Speaker 4: And so my friend starts to respond to him like

473
00:25:04,920 --> 00:25:08,600
Speaker 4: any normal human being would and be like, Yo, what

474
00:25:08,640 --> 00:25:11,720
Speaker 4: you're saying is really problematic, you know. So my friend

475
00:25:11,760 --> 00:25:17,480
Speaker 4: stands up to him, and Stan has a very Stan response,

476
00:25:18,040 --> 00:25:21,000
Speaker 4: which is to basically just scream.

477
00:25:20,680 --> 00:25:23,280
Speaker 3: At her, Oh my gosh.

478
00:25:22,800 --> 00:25:26,800
Speaker 4: Right about how she doesn't know who the fuck he is. Wow,

479
00:25:26,960 --> 00:25:31,000
Speaker 4: dare her make assumptions on you know, X, Y and Z.

480
00:25:31,200 --> 00:25:35,040
Speaker 4: And just because he's an able, able bodied white man

481
00:25:35,160 --> 00:25:38,160
Speaker 4: doesn't mean he doesn't know X Y, and Z right.

482
00:25:38,960 --> 00:25:45,439
Speaker 4: She has such an intense trauma response to this, and

483
00:25:45,480 --> 00:25:47,480
Speaker 4: I'm kind of watching all of this unfold. I've seen

484
00:25:47,520 --> 00:25:49,960
Speaker 4: him scream at people a million times and say outland

485
00:25:49,960 --> 00:25:52,159
Speaker 4: a shit that he doesn't even really mean, just to

486
00:25:52,160 --> 00:25:54,480
Speaker 4: get a response. So I'm like used to it, but

487
00:25:54,560 --> 00:25:58,200
Speaker 4: I'm not used to my friend bearing witness to it.

488
00:25:58,720 --> 00:26:03,600
Speaker 4: M M. So we leave and I'm driving her home

489
00:26:03,640 --> 00:26:06,399
Speaker 4: and I'm sort of like, what what's going on? How,

490
00:26:06,560 --> 00:26:09,440
Speaker 4: what's what's happening for you? And she's like, I can't.

491
00:26:09,520 --> 00:26:11,879
Speaker 4: I can't even talk about it right now, but you know,

492
00:26:11,920 --> 00:26:16,040
Speaker 4: when we eventually do talk about it, she starts sharing

493
00:26:16,080 --> 00:26:20,200
Speaker 4: with me that not only did what just take took

494
00:26:20,240 --> 00:26:23,439
Speaker 4: place like it was awful, but she was also like,

495
00:26:23,600 --> 00:26:26,000
Speaker 4: I don't want to have anything to do with that

496
00:26:26,160 --> 00:26:28,879
Speaker 4: human being ever again. And I'm not judging you, like,

497
00:26:29,119 --> 00:26:32,359
Speaker 4: whatever your relationship is with him is your relationship, but

498
00:26:33,520 --> 00:26:36,240
Speaker 4: you know, I don't ever want to see that person again,

499
00:26:36,640 --> 00:26:40,680
Speaker 4: which had a significant effect on me. Right when I

500
00:26:40,880 --> 00:26:44,680
Speaker 4: processed that with him in our next meeting, I started

501
00:26:44,720 --> 00:26:47,320
Speaker 4: to recall because this was one thing that we did

502
00:26:47,400 --> 00:26:50,239
Speaker 4: we always like recalled the movements of energy, right, and

503
00:26:50,240 --> 00:26:52,960
Speaker 4: that was like what happened, you know, how did it

504
00:26:53,040 --> 00:26:56,080
Speaker 4: go down? We would break things down to the absolute

505
00:26:56,160 --> 00:27:01,600
Speaker 4: like minutia. And as I'm recalling the events of that afternoon,

506
00:27:02,320 --> 00:27:05,159
Speaker 4: He's telling me that I'm wrong and I have like

507
00:27:05,200 --> 00:27:07,959
Speaker 4: an insane memory. It's just like one of the things

508
00:27:08,000 --> 00:27:11,040
Speaker 4: that I'm blessed with or cursed by. We just have

509
00:27:11,080 --> 00:27:17,040
Speaker 4: an insane memory. And he is contesting almost everything I'm

510
00:27:17,080 --> 00:27:19,800
Speaker 4: saying about, like what happened and who said what? And

511
00:27:19,840 --> 00:27:22,320
Speaker 4: when the wheelchair man came back, what happened then, and

512
00:27:22,359 --> 00:27:25,439
Speaker 4: all of this stuff, and I'm, for once, I'm sticking

513
00:27:25,440 --> 00:27:28,199
Speaker 4: to my guns, and I'm like, no, that actually didn't happen,

514
00:27:28,240 --> 00:27:31,040
Speaker 4: and I actually didn't drink as much as you did either,

515
00:27:32,040 --> 00:27:36,440
Speaker 4: so this is what happened, to which point he absolutely

516
00:27:36,520 --> 00:27:40,480
Speaker 4: lost his shit and told me that I was obsessing

517
00:27:41,280 --> 00:27:45,359
Speaker 4: over the content of the situation and why am I

518
00:27:45,440 --> 00:27:48,720
Speaker 4: getting lost in the details when the real thing that's

519
00:27:48,800 --> 00:27:51,440
Speaker 4: important are the movements of energy? Right, So it was

520
00:27:51,480 --> 00:27:56,600
Speaker 4: like full on shaming me for remembering correctly. And that

521
00:27:56,720 --> 00:27:58,960
Speaker 4: was the first time that I was like, got it.

522
00:27:59,119 --> 00:28:05,480
Speaker 4: You're a drunk and you lost your connection with reality

523
00:28:05,520 --> 00:28:08,680
Speaker 4: for a moment, which is something that you say, never happens,

524
00:28:09,160 --> 00:28:11,120
Speaker 4: but if I call you on it, I will be

525
00:28:11,320 --> 00:28:14,200
Speaker 4: ridiculed and shamed to no end. And I don't stand

526
00:28:14,200 --> 00:28:16,960
Speaker 4: a chance up against that. So all right, I'm just

527
00:28:17,000 --> 00:28:20,399
Speaker 4: going to file that under you're at least two percent

528
00:28:20,480 --> 00:28:21,040
Speaker 4: full of shit?

529
00:28:21,440 --> 00:28:22,920
Speaker 1: Right That was the first.

530
00:28:22,640 --> 00:28:28,960
Speaker 4: Time and the last time when the veil fully lifted

531
00:28:30,040 --> 00:28:35,480
Speaker 4: was another situation in which Stan was drinking and his

532
00:28:36,040 --> 00:28:41,560
Speaker 4: recall of the night was just not actually what took place.

533
00:28:42,080 --> 00:28:45,120
Speaker 4: At the time, I was also working as a private

534
00:28:45,200 --> 00:28:49,800
Speaker 4: chef and like trying to angle my career away from

535
00:28:49,840 --> 00:28:52,800
Speaker 4: like nannying and families and get into like catering and

536
00:28:52,800 --> 00:28:55,200
Speaker 4: maybe opening a restaurant and all this stuff. So he

537
00:28:56,160 --> 00:28:59,160
Speaker 4: encouraged me to take a chance on all of that

538
00:28:59,520 --> 00:29:04,520
Speaker 4: and put together a party where I would invite my

539
00:29:04,640 --> 00:29:08,880
Speaker 4: friends and family and ask them to pay for a

540
00:29:08,960 --> 00:29:10,880
Speaker 4: meal I would do, like a five course meal and

541
00:29:10,960 --> 00:29:14,880
Speaker 4: all of this stuff. And so for months I prepared

542
00:29:14,920 --> 00:29:18,360
Speaker 4: for this thing. And I you know, because at that point,

543
00:29:18,400 --> 00:29:21,800
Speaker 4: four years in was telling him every step of every

544
00:29:21,880 --> 00:29:24,560
Speaker 4: part of my life. He was very much a part

545
00:29:24,640 --> 00:29:26,680
Speaker 4: of me preparing for that.

546
00:29:27,240 --> 00:29:29,000
Speaker 1: And this includes your family, who you.

547
00:29:29,520 --> 00:29:32,600
Speaker 4: It includes my family, because at that point I had

548
00:29:32,640 --> 00:29:36,360
Speaker 4: started talking to them again, but we had spoken to

549
00:29:36,480 --> 00:29:41,080
Speaker 4: each other through Stan in that they had agreed to

550
00:29:41,160 --> 00:29:47,360
Speaker 4: meet with me with Stan and we sharing a relationship.

551
00:29:47,840 --> 00:29:50,160
Speaker 3: Okay, I have this.

552
00:29:50,160 --> 00:29:54,360
Speaker 4: Huge dinner party in my backyard with fifty people, five

553
00:29:54,520 --> 00:29:59,600
Speaker 4: courses and you know, open bar, whatever. Everything's more or

554
00:29:59,680 --> 00:30:02,400
Speaker 4: less me except for the forty dollars that you sent

555
00:30:02,440 --> 00:30:06,400
Speaker 4: me to do this thing. Everyone shows up, it's a blast,

556
00:30:06,600 --> 00:30:10,360
Speaker 4: there's live music, everything's great. I am dead sober the

557
00:30:10,360 --> 00:30:13,560
Speaker 4: whole night because obviously I'm working my butt off in

558
00:30:13,640 --> 00:30:17,240
Speaker 4: the kitchen doing every possible thing, and at that point

559
00:30:17,320 --> 00:30:23,040
Speaker 4: I had been so trained by him to be intentional

560
00:30:23,600 --> 00:30:26,880
Speaker 4: about everything that I did, so there was really nothing

561
00:30:27,040 --> 00:30:30,640
Speaker 4: left unconsidered. And the whole time that I was leading

562
00:30:30,720 --> 00:30:33,239
Speaker 4: up to it, including the night, was like, Okay, let

563
00:30:33,320 --> 00:30:37,360
Speaker 4: me make sure that I do everything right. So there's

564
00:30:37,400 --> 00:30:40,200
Speaker 4: nothing that Stan can tell me the next day when

565
00:30:40,200 --> 00:30:43,000
Speaker 4: we meet that I fucked up, or that I wasn't

566
00:30:43,000 --> 00:30:46,040
Speaker 4: paying attention to or that I was undisciplined or whatever.

567
00:30:46,120 --> 00:30:50,040
Speaker 4: So I was like crossing all my teas and dotting

568
00:30:50,120 --> 00:30:54,920
Speaker 4: all my eyes as best as I possibly could. Great success.

569
00:30:55,080 --> 00:30:59,120
Speaker 4: Everybody you know left the party congratulating me thank you.

570
00:30:59,160 --> 00:31:02,200
Speaker 4: That was amazing. Everything was amazing. I meet with him

571
00:31:02,280 --> 00:31:07,200
Speaker 4: and his apprentice the next day, and he started to

572
00:31:07,280 --> 00:31:11,520
Speaker 4: weave a story about the night that was really kind

573
00:31:11,560 --> 00:31:14,719
Speaker 4: of inaccurate. I'd invited a chef that was a mutual

574
00:31:14,760 --> 00:31:17,640
Speaker 4: friend of ours, and he proceeded to tell me how

575
00:31:18,000 --> 00:31:24,360
Speaker 4: wildly I had offended this chef and how I should

576
00:31:24,360 --> 00:31:28,640
Speaker 4: not bother calling him to apologize because the damage was

577
00:31:28,680 --> 00:31:33,080
Speaker 4: basically already done. And at that point I trusted Stan

578
00:31:33,600 --> 00:31:38,880
Speaker 4: so deeply that I felt like I'd lost my connection

579
00:31:38,960 --> 00:31:41,240
Speaker 4: to reality because I was thinking to myself, like, how

580
00:31:41,320 --> 00:31:45,239
Speaker 4: is it possible that I worked hundreds of hours on

581
00:31:45,280 --> 00:31:48,680
Speaker 4: this thing to make sure that I didn't do anything

582
00:31:48,800 --> 00:31:52,080
Speaker 4: wrong and then I did the one thing wrong by

583
00:31:52,120 --> 00:31:54,680
Speaker 4: like shaming the guest of honor basically, And how did

584
00:31:54,680 --> 00:31:57,320
Speaker 4: I not know that? Which questions he was asking me like,

585
00:31:57,360 --> 00:32:00,360
Speaker 4: how did you? How are you so disconnected from your

586
00:32:00,400 --> 00:32:04,120
Speaker 4: awareness that you didn't realize you did this? I full

587
00:32:04,200 --> 00:32:09,240
Speaker 4: on brooke down, I mean just I could not stop sobbing.

588
00:32:09,640 --> 00:32:12,720
Speaker 4: I was also supposed to leave for Europe for four months.

589
00:32:12,760 --> 00:32:15,840
Speaker 4: The next day. Oh wow, He's like, don't call our

590
00:32:15,960 --> 00:32:18,400
Speaker 4: chef friend. Just let it go. You know, we're going

591
00:32:18,440 --> 00:32:20,680
Speaker 4: to use this as a learning experience blah blah blah.

592
00:32:20,680 --> 00:32:22,320
Speaker 4: And I'm like no, no, no, no, no, no, no

593
00:32:22,320 --> 00:32:26,200
Speaker 4: no no, Like I cannot abide that I offended this person.

594
00:32:26,960 --> 00:32:28,880
Speaker 4: So I get in my car, leave our meeting. I

595
00:32:28,920 --> 00:32:33,200
Speaker 4: get in my car, go to the chef's restaurant, pull

596
00:32:33,280 --> 00:32:36,080
Speaker 4: him out of the kitchen. I'm still in tears, and

597
00:32:36,160 --> 00:32:40,160
Speaker 4: I'm like, I'm so sorry I offended you. I don't

598
00:32:40,160 --> 00:32:42,160
Speaker 4: know how I could possibly make it up to you.

599
00:32:42,280 --> 00:32:44,920
Speaker 4: And he just looked at me, like, what on earth

600
00:32:44,960 --> 00:32:46,000
Speaker 4: are you talking about?

601
00:32:46,560 --> 00:32:47,360
Speaker 3: Oh?

602
00:32:47,400 --> 00:32:50,440
Speaker 4: And I said, well, Stan told me that I did this,

603
00:32:50,640 --> 00:32:52,040
Speaker 4: that and the other thing. And he looked at me

604
00:32:52,040 --> 00:32:54,520
Speaker 4: and he said, don't you have a plane to catch

605
00:32:55,160 --> 00:32:58,680
Speaker 4: like soon? And I'm like yeah. He goes get out

606
00:32:58,680 --> 00:33:01,160
Speaker 4: of here. He's like, I don't know where he gets

607
00:33:01,160 --> 00:33:04,000
Speaker 4: off telling you I was offended. I had a great time.

608
00:33:04,840 --> 00:33:08,080
Speaker 4: We're good, God, get out of here, go live your life,

609
00:33:08,200 --> 00:33:11,200
Speaker 4: like I don't know what's going on, but we're fine.

610
00:33:11,720 --> 00:33:16,920
Speaker 4: And it was like full on, there is no veil anymore.

611
00:33:17,480 --> 00:33:20,120
Speaker 4: And I was just like, oh my god, I'm leaving

612
00:33:20,160 --> 00:33:23,280
Speaker 4: for Europe. And he freaked out that I was going

613
00:33:23,360 --> 00:33:27,520
Speaker 4: to be away from his influence. So he who he

614
00:33:27,560 --> 00:33:31,520
Speaker 4: created this whole story that is not real and I

615
00:33:31,640 --> 00:33:34,800
Speaker 4: believed it because I gave him all of my power.

616
00:33:35,440 --> 00:33:36,560
Speaker 1: Wo wow.

617
00:33:36,720 --> 00:33:39,560
Speaker 4: So I call him and he's like, well, what did

618
00:33:39,560 --> 00:33:41,760
Speaker 4: the chef say? And I told him and he goes,

619
00:33:42,000 --> 00:33:45,440
Speaker 4: you know, Natasha, just because he told you, that doesn't

620
00:33:45,480 --> 00:33:49,360
Speaker 4: mean he's telling you the truth. M I was like,

621
00:33:50,120 --> 00:33:58,480
Speaker 4: super duper sounds good less for Europe and decided that

622
00:33:59,400 --> 00:34:04,120
Speaker 4: I was done. Wow, I just was done.

623
00:34:04,320 --> 00:34:05,800
Speaker 3: Thank god you were in Europe.

624
00:34:06,120 --> 00:34:08,520
Speaker 4: And the whole time I was in Europe, he was

625
00:34:08,560 --> 00:34:13,719
Speaker 4: having meetings with the Intimacy Project about what a charlatan

626
00:34:13,840 --> 00:34:18,000
Speaker 4: I was, how I had hoodwinked everyone out of forty

627
00:34:18,080 --> 00:34:23,799
Speaker 4: dollars to pay for this dinner that I just conceived

628
00:34:23,880 --> 00:34:27,239
Speaker 4: of out of nowhere, to steal all their money, and

629
00:34:27,280 --> 00:34:30,000
Speaker 4: he was going to ask for all the money back

630
00:34:30,080 --> 00:34:34,080
Speaker 4: on behalf of everyone. So when I came back, that's

631
00:34:34,080 --> 00:34:34,640
Speaker 4: what he did.

632
00:34:35,080 --> 00:34:36,960
Speaker 1: You guys can't see this right now about Megan and

633
00:34:37,239 --> 00:34:43,920
Speaker 1: my mouth Yeah, just like open, Oh my god.

634
00:34:44,160 --> 00:34:44,960
Speaker 3: So insane.

635
00:34:45,160 --> 00:34:48,359
Speaker 4: It was so insane. And at that point I had

636
00:34:48,400 --> 00:34:51,000
Speaker 4: been gone for long enough that I was like, oh,

637
00:34:51,080 --> 00:34:53,680
Speaker 4: you want money, fine, will that get you off of

638
00:34:53,719 --> 00:34:57,880
Speaker 4: my fucking back forever. Cool here you go.

639
00:34:58,200 --> 00:34:58,680
Speaker 1: Mmm.

640
00:35:00,080 --> 00:35:02,480
Speaker 2: And wow fight to keep you? Or was he just like,

641
00:35:02,600 --> 00:35:03,840
Speaker 2: oh this one saw through it.

642
00:35:04,080 --> 00:35:06,800
Speaker 4: Oh, not only did he fight to keep me. Okay,

643
00:35:07,400 --> 00:35:09,560
Speaker 4: In that last meeting that we had when I came

644
00:35:09,600 --> 00:35:11,440
Speaker 4: back and gave him money and all of that, like,

645
00:35:11,800 --> 00:35:16,160
Speaker 4: he threw everything at me that he had ever learned,

646
00:35:16,520 --> 00:35:20,480
Speaker 4: Like he threw all the biggest punches, and I of

647
00:35:20,520 --> 00:35:23,000
Speaker 4: course was sobbing because I was like, I thought you

648
00:35:23,040 --> 00:35:27,080
Speaker 4: were my friend, Like what, I'm so lost here. When

649
00:35:27,120 --> 00:35:31,279
Speaker 4: that didn't work, he had people from the Intimacy Project

650
00:35:31,680 --> 00:35:38,200
Speaker 4: resign from their friendship with me. Wow, throw all the

651
00:35:38,280 --> 00:35:41,160
Speaker 4: same kind of shit at me, as if I wasn't

652
00:35:41,200 --> 00:35:44,839
Speaker 4: a person that they actually knew, right, you know. And

653
00:35:44,920 --> 00:35:47,279
Speaker 4: at that point it was like I wasn't even that

654
00:35:47,560 --> 00:35:50,560
Speaker 4: mad because I was listening to them talk to me,

655
00:35:50,640 --> 00:35:52,319
Speaker 4: and I was like, oh my god, that was me.

656
00:35:53,040 --> 00:35:56,879
Speaker 4: Yeah I've said that before, like you're not here having

657
00:35:56,880 --> 00:35:59,560
Speaker 4: a conversation with me, Like you're here so you can

658
00:35:59,600 --> 00:36:05,560
Speaker 4: report to him that you told me these things, right, okay, okay, yeah,

659
00:36:05,560 --> 00:36:08,640
Speaker 4: thank you, and I understand goodbye. You know. It was

660
00:36:08,760 --> 00:36:11,520
Speaker 4: just like what do you say? And what do you do.

661
00:36:11,640 --> 00:36:16,920
Speaker 4: I lost all those friendships except for his apprentice, who

662
00:36:17,440 --> 00:36:23,680
Speaker 4: several years later left finally and called me to apologize

663
00:36:23,920 --> 00:36:26,399
Speaker 4: for how she treated me. And it was a phone

664
00:36:26,400 --> 00:36:28,279
Speaker 4: call I never thought in a million years i'd get

665
00:36:28,440 --> 00:36:31,360
Speaker 4: And now she's the only person who's like actually still

666
00:36:31,760 --> 00:36:32,280
Speaker 4: my friend.

667
00:36:32,960 --> 00:36:36,759
Speaker 1: I imagine more will happen over time, because that's usually

668
00:36:36,800 --> 00:36:40,719
Speaker 1: how these things work. But that is fucked up, man. Yeah,

669
00:36:40,760 --> 00:36:43,880
Speaker 1: I mean it's incredible, how like instant it sounds like

670
00:36:43,920 --> 00:36:46,080
Speaker 1: that moment was I mean, I'm sure there were like

671
00:36:46,120 --> 00:36:48,200
Speaker 1: little cracks along the way, but the fact that it

672
00:36:48,320 --> 00:36:50,759
Speaker 1: just like broke open and then that was it, Like,

673
00:36:50,800 --> 00:36:51,520
Speaker 1: that's amazing.

674
00:36:52,120 --> 00:36:56,760
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, I mean it was. Yeah, it was intense.

675
00:36:57,160 --> 00:36:59,640
Speaker 1: And it's a testament to me to the power of like,

676
00:37:00,480 --> 00:37:04,960
Speaker 1: well a, how effective isolation is and be how effective

677
00:37:05,520 --> 00:37:10,719
Speaker 1: like having connections to the outside world is absolutely and.

678
00:37:10,680 --> 00:37:13,480
Speaker 4: As soon as you invite the outside world back in,

679
00:37:14,480 --> 00:37:19,960
Speaker 4: it becomes really really clear that you're involved in something

680
00:37:20,719 --> 00:37:24,919
Speaker 4: that's actually hindering your capacity to be a part of

681
00:37:25,640 --> 00:37:28,239
Speaker 4: what is actual, which is.

682
00:37:28,320 --> 00:37:30,560
Speaker 3: Right right ironic.

683
00:37:32,400 --> 00:37:34,680
Speaker 2: So how did you take care of yourself? Did you

684
00:37:34,719 --> 00:37:37,280
Speaker 2: just find like a new therapist that was really goodly.

685
00:37:37,360 --> 00:37:39,560
Speaker 3: How did you know I wrote a book.

686
00:37:39,840 --> 00:37:42,920
Speaker 1: That's right, tell us about the book.

687
00:37:43,280 --> 00:37:45,479
Speaker 4: One of the things in the Intimacy Project in order

688
00:37:45,520 --> 00:37:48,640
Speaker 4: to erase your personality was to sort of stop the

689
00:37:48,760 --> 00:37:52,760
Speaker 4: practices that you had been engaging in your whole life.

690
00:37:53,320 --> 00:37:57,520
Speaker 4: Just kind of throw everything out, do something different, and

691
00:37:57,560 --> 00:38:00,680
Speaker 4: then see what sticks after that. You know, what is

692
00:38:00,719 --> 00:38:02,919
Speaker 4: something you picked up as a trauma response, and what's

693
00:38:02,920 --> 00:38:06,800
Speaker 4: something that you do because it's part of your chorotic nature.

694
00:38:07,239 --> 00:38:09,759
Speaker 4: And one of the things that I always did my

695
00:38:09,960 --> 00:38:12,279
Speaker 4: whole life since I could pick up a pen, was

696
00:38:12,320 --> 00:38:16,680
Speaker 4: like I recorded everything. I would write down everything I

697
00:38:16,760 --> 00:38:20,200
Speaker 4: did every single day for years. I stopped that in

698
00:38:20,239 --> 00:38:24,760
Speaker 4: the Intimacy Project. I kept lists of damn near everything,

699
00:38:24,800 --> 00:38:27,480
Speaker 4: including everybody I had slept with. I also stopped that

700
00:38:27,520 --> 00:38:30,440
Speaker 4: in the Intimacy Project, And so once I had left,

701
00:38:30,719 --> 00:38:35,080
Speaker 4: I was sort of like musing privately, wondering if I

702
00:38:35,120 --> 00:38:38,600
Speaker 4: could even remember any of that stuff, Like could I

703
00:38:38,640 --> 00:38:40,880
Speaker 4: even remember all the people that I had slept with?

704
00:38:41,000 --> 00:38:43,600
Speaker 4: Or had I done a good enough job erasing it

705
00:38:43,680 --> 00:38:47,120
Speaker 4: that it was like gone forever. So I sat down

706
00:38:47,160 --> 00:38:50,120
Speaker 4: and I started writing, and it came out as chapters,

707
00:38:50,960 --> 00:38:54,160
Speaker 4: and I ended up with a book called The First

708
00:38:54,239 --> 00:38:57,399
Speaker 4: Fifty about the first fifty people that I slept with,

709
00:38:57,480 --> 00:39:01,600
Speaker 4: where I just tell each story kind of as its

710
00:39:01,640 --> 00:39:04,799
Speaker 4: own self contained thing, and towards the end of the

711
00:39:04,840 --> 00:39:08,440
Speaker 4: book is about my time with the Intimacy Project and

712
00:39:08,480 --> 00:39:12,680
Speaker 4: how that affected the people that I was sleeping with

713
00:39:12,880 --> 00:39:17,360
Speaker 4: and me and all of this stuff. You know. Amazing, honestly,

714
00:39:18,280 --> 00:39:22,319
Speaker 4: through this book, I was able to do a lot

715
00:39:22,360 --> 00:39:25,520
Speaker 4: of the work that in the Intimacy Project we were

716
00:39:25,640 --> 00:39:28,600
Speaker 4: being told that we were going to do this whole

717
00:39:28,640 --> 00:39:33,879
Speaker 4: like recaculation of your personal history in order to take

718
00:39:33,960 --> 00:39:38,600
Speaker 4: possession of the narrative, you know, an Intimacy project. It

719
00:39:38,719 --> 00:39:41,680
Speaker 4: was like, take all these artifacts from your life and

720
00:39:41,800 --> 00:39:46,440
Speaker 4: burn them down so that you're a blank slate. And then,

721
00:39:46,640 --> 00:39:50,200
Speaker 4: you know, this book is like, oh no, reframe them,

722
00:39:50,360 --> 00:39:54,520
Speaker 4: own the narrative, you know, literally at this point right right,

723
00:39:54,840 --> 00:39:56,960
Speaker 4: and then move on from them.

724
00:39:57,000 --> 00:39:59,880
Speaker 1: Right, Integrate them into your life instead of pretending the

725
00:40:00,080 --> 00:40:01,720
Speaker 1: don't exist or something.

726
00:40:01,680 --> 00:40:05,719
Speaker 2: And share them intimately with other people. I'm crying right now.

727
00:40:05,760 --> 00:40:06,760
Speaker 2: It's so fucking beautiful.

728
00:40:06,800 --> 00:40:08,400
Speaker 3: It's so perfect. It's perfect.

729
00:40:09,560 --> 00:40:13,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's just it's the perfect testament and monument to

730
00:40:13,600 --> 00:40:15,359
Speaker 2: that experience in your life.

731
00:40:15,480 --> 00:40:16,279
Speaker 3: I love it.

732
00:40:16,400 --> 00:40:19,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, so when does it come out? How can people

733
00:40:19,040 --> 00:40:22,000
Speaker 1: add out more? O, congrats.

734
00:40:21,520 --> 00:40:26,120
Speaker 4: Out number one new releases and like popular Psychology of

735
00:40:26,280 --> 00:40:29,000
Speaker 4: Sexuality or whatever. I say.

736
00:40:29,960 --> 00:40:34,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, you've been putting excerpts on it on your Instagram

737
00:40:34,200 --> 00:40:38,000
Speaker 2: and it's so deeply funny. It's so good. I'm going

738
00:40:38,040 --> 00:40:39,879
Speaker 2: to get it today. I cannot wait to read it.

739
00:40:40,000 --> 00:40:42,680
Speaker 2: And yeah, it's just fabulous.

740
00:40:43,000 --> 00:40:46,120
Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm really excited about it. It's also like, you know,

741
00:40:46,239 --> 00:40:49,120
Speaker 4: the first time in my life that I did something

742
00:40:49,200 --> 00:40:52,759
Speaker 4: that wasn't out of desperation. It was like coming from

743
00:40:52,840 --> 00:40:55,600
Speaker 4: a real place inside of me. It felt like the

744
00:40:55,680 --> 00:41:00,440
Speaker 4: culmination of all of my life's work. You know. It

745
00:41:00,480 --> 00:41:02,239
Speaker 4: was like all of a sudden, all the trauma, all

746
00:41:02,280 --> 00:41:06,120
Speaker 4: the weird experiences, all that everything had a place, you know,

747
00:41:06,160 --> 00:41:07,440
Speaker 4: when the place was the book.

748
00:41:07,680 --> 00:41:11,640
Speaker 3: Oh good, I love that so perfect.

749
00:41:12,080 --> 00:41:13,880
Speaker 1: Where can people find you on social media?

750
00:41:14,040 --> 00:41:18,759
Speaker 4: They can find me on Instagram at Natasha Meow or

751
00:41:18,800 --> 00:41:23,400
Speaker 4: on Facebook as Natasha Tornetta Mellen. And you know you

752
00:41:23,520 --> 00:41:26,560
Speaker 4: can find the book the first fifty on Amazon or

753
00:41:26,600 --> 00:41:31,600
Speaker 4: Barnes and Noble or Skylight Books wherever are sold.

754
00:41:31,920 --> 00:41:35,239
Speaker 1: Awesome, yay, Well, thank you so much for talking to us.

755
00:41:35,800 --> 00:41:39,040
Speaker 4: Thank you guys so much for inviting me on. Honestly,

756
00:41:39,120 --> 00:41:40,839
Speaker 4: like I said, I think this is the first time

757
00:41:40,880 --> 00:41:45,520
Speaker 4: that I've spoken really publicly about this experience to people

758
00:41:45,520 --> 00:41:48,439
Speaker 4: that I don't know all that well or at all,

759
00:41:50,800 --> 00:41:57,000
Speaker 4: and it feels really amazing to speak about it, probably

760
00:41:57,080 --> 00:42:00,600
Speaker 4: for the first time in my life without shame. So

761
00:42:00,760 --> 00:42:04,480
Speaker 4: thank you for offering me the opportunity to do that. Oh,

762
00:42:04,520 --> 00:42:07,000
Speaker 4: You're so welcome. This was an awesome episode.

763
00:42:07,120 --> 00:42:11,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, well that was awesome. And now the question

764
00:42:11,880 --> 00:42:14,480
Speaker 1: that I have for you, okay, is so at the

765
00:42:14,520 --> 00:42:17,080
Speaker 1: beginning of today's podcast, he said that you would join

766
00:42:17,120 --> 00:42:20,720
Speaker 1: Natasha's cult if she started one. Is that true? Okay,

767
00:42:20,880 --> 00:42:25,719
Speaker 1: all right, I see just thinking probably yeah, okay, why Yeah?

768
00:42:26,160 --> 00:42:30,440
Speaker 2: I just love her energy, Like I think she can

769
00:42:30,440 --> 00:42:32,480
Speaker 2: get anything done. If she's like, I know how to

770
00:42:32,760 --> 00:42:35,440
Speaker 2: save all the trees, I'd be like, yeah, obviously you do,

771
00:42:35,560 --> 00:42:36,480
Speaker 2: Like where do we start?

772
00:42:36,560 --> 00:42:39,319
Speaker 3: You know? And I just trust her.

773
00:42:39,560 --> 00:42:42,680
Speaker 1: Wow, Megan, you're breaking rule number one.

774
00:42:42,760 --> 00:42:47,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, you're not supposed to trust You're not? So still yeah, no,

775
00:42:47,480 --> 00:42:48,480
Speaker 2: I okay.

776
00:42:48,600 --> 00:42:50,600
Speaker 1: Natasha's clearly going to hear this and be like, these

777
00:42:50,600 --> 00:42:51,800
Speaker 1: girls are fucking weird.

778
00:42:53,440 --> 00:42:56,560
Speaker 2: She's like, I literally don't know what you're talking about.

779
00:42:58,719 --> 00:43:01,359
Speaker 1: Some people you look at their as they're talking and

780
00:43:01,360 --> 00:43:04,080
Speaker 1: you're like, I like watching this face talk.

781
00:43:04,239 --> 00:43:04,680
Speaker 3: Uh huh.

782
00:43:04,760 --> 00:43:08,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, I like hearing this voice and I like watching

783
00:43:08,160 --> 00:43:10,960
Speaker 1: this mouth move. It's kind of like Jack, my boyfriend,

784
00:43:10,960 --> 00:43:13,120
Speaker 1: I were talking about this the other day. You know,

785
00:43:13,360 --> 00:43:15,600
Speaker 1: sometimes you're just like fascinating with someone's mouth. Has this

786
00:43:15,719 --> 00:43:16,359
Speaker 1: ever happened to you?

787
00:43:17,000 --> 00:43:17,440
Speaker 3: Yeah?

788
00:43:17,480 --> 00:43:19,040
Speaker 1: Okay, blue is the warmest color?

789
00:43:19,200 --> 00:43:19,359
Speaker 4: Right?

790
00:43:19,440 --> 00:43:21,240
Speaker 1: Did you ever see that movie? I don't remember Lesbian

791
00:43:21,320 --> 00:43:26,160
Speaker 1: Love Story inappropriate director behavior on it, but great movie.

792
00:43:26,360 --> 00:43:28,400
Speaker 1: The lead of that movie is this actress. I forgot

793
00:43:28,400 --> 00:43:30,440
Speaker 1: her name, but as I was watching that movie the

794
00:43:30,480 --> 00:43:32,319
Speaker 1: whole time, I was like, Wow, her mouth and there

795
00:43:32,320 --> 00:43:34,520
Speaker 1: are all these shots of her eating, and I was like, wow,

796
00:43:34,560 --> 00:43:37,279
Speaker 1: I love watching her eat. And then I read later

797
00:43:37,360 --> 00:43:40,279
Speaker 1: that the director specifically hired her because of the wave

798
00:43:40,440 --> 00:43:42,720
Speaker 1: that she ate. He was like, fascinated by the way

799
00:43:42,920 --> 00:43:45,520
Speaker 1: that she eats. Interesting, this is like a thing whatever.

800
00:43:45,640 --> 00:43:48,879
Speaker 1: Like Jack had this. He feels this way about certain

801
00:43:48,920 --> 00:43:51,359
Speaker 1: actors as well. It's not that specific, but it is

802
00:43:51,440 --> 00:43:53,520
Speaker 1: just like there's something about you that I just like

803
00:43:53,520 --> 00:43:57,160
Speaker 1: like to watch. Yeah, and I feel that about Natasha.

804
00:43:57,239 --> 00:43:59,560
Speaker 1: I don't think I would join her cult because I'm

805
00:43:59,640 --> 00:44:03,160
Speaker 1: skeptic of that instinct within myself. I'm like, just because

806
00:44:03,200 --> 00:44:05,160
Speaker 1: you like to watch them doesn't mean that they know

807
00:44:05,600 --> 00:44:08,960
Speaker 1: all the things you're wrong. But she does seem like

808
00:44:09,000 --> 00:44:11,040
Speaker 1: a very wise lady. Yeah, yeah, maybe started.

809
00:44:11,320 --> 00:44:13,040
Speaker 3: Yes, it's so good.

810
00:44:13,160 --> 00:44:15,320
Speaker 1: Oh yeah right, you said that. Yeah, I got to

811
00:44:15,320 --> 00:44:17,440
Speaker 1: read it. I'll let you borrow it verse fifty, the

812
00:44:17,480 --> 00:44:20,839
Speaker 1: first fifty. Go and buy it kids. You gotta read

813
00:44:20,960 --> 00:44:23,319
Speaker 1: not kids, because it's pretty sexual, I'm pretty sure.

814
00:44:23,360 --> 00:44:24,840
Speaker 3: And get it off Amazon and paperback.

815
00:44:24,920 --> 00:44:25,080
Speaker 4: Oh.

816
00:44:25,200 --> 00:44:27,560
Speaker 1: Also, I would like to point out one thing, which

817
00:44:27,600 --> 00:44:30,359
Speaker 1: is that last week I called the magazines that I

818
00:44:30,400 --> 00:44:33,600
Speaker 1: loved with hands and spice girls posters in them, bop

819
00:44:33,719 --> 00:44:38,920
Speaker 1: and beat it the internet. Our lovely followers have reminded

820
00:44:38,960 --> 00:44:43,600
Speaker 1: me that it was called tiger Beat, not beat It

821
00:44:44,400 --> 00:44:51,440
Speaker 1: children's magazine. I think there was also teen Beat. Steve

822
00:44:51,520 --> 00:44:53,480
Speaker 1: sent us teen Beat, but Tiger Beat was the one

823
00:44:53,520 --> 00:44:56,160
Speaker 1: that I read, not beat It nor beat Off.

824
00:44:57,320 --> 00:44:58,000
Speaker 3: Neither of those things.

825
00:44:58,480 --> 00:45:03,839
Speaker 1: Anyway, Children do not I beat It magazine. No, don't

826
00:45:03,880 --> 00:45:06,560
Speaker 1: buy Natasha's book, but adults go out and get it.

827
00:45:06,600 --> 00:45:06,920
Speaker 4: Baby.

828
00:45:07,040 --> 00:45:08,960
Speaker 3: Also, I just want to say I said, get it

829
00:45:08,960 --> 00:45:11,359
Speaker 3: off Amazon. I don't do that. Go get it from

830
00:45:11,360 --> 00:45:13,719
Speaker 3: a local bookstore. But are they in local bookstores?

831
00:45:13,719 --> 00:45:15,480
Speaker 1: I don't know how I saw that she did a

832
00:45:15,520 --> 00:45:17,880
Speaker 1: reading at Skylight in Los Felis.

833
00:45:18,280 --> 00:45:21,600
Speaker 2: Just find it, Just find it. Okay, great, join her call.

834
00:45:21,880 --> 00:45:24,680
Speaker 2: We love talking to you guys. This week has been

835
00:45:25,239 --> 00:45:29,000
Speaker 2: so amazing, so much happening. It's super wonderful. We will

836
00:45:29,000 --> 00:45:32,839
Speaker 2: see you again next week. And remember, follow your gut,

837
00:45:33,080 --> 00:45:34,080
Speaker 2: watch out for red.

838
00:45:33,920 --> 00:45:39,839
Speaker 1: Flags, and never ever trust me. Bye bye,