1
00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:02,240
Speaker 1: This episode of the Chuck Podcast is brought to you

2
00:00:02,279 --> 00:00:04,800
Speaker 1: by Incognate. You know, one of the things we talk

3
00:00:05,040 --> 00:00:07,880
Speaker 1: a lot about on this podcast is trust, who deserves

4
00:00:07,880 --> 00:00:09,920
Speaker 1: it and who doesn't. And lately I've been thinking about

5
00:00:09,920 --> 00:00:14,200
Speaker 1: how much of our personal information is just floating around online.

6
00:00:14,520 --> 00:00:17,920
Speaker 1: I'm talking about phone numbers, home addresses, emails, even information

7
00:00:17,960 --> 00:00:20,400
Speaker 1: about your family, all sitting on websites you've probably never

8
00:00:20,440 --> 00:00:22,720
Speaker 1: heard of. In the scary part, that information can be

9
00:00:22,840 --> 00:00:26,600
Speaker 1: used by scammers and identity thieves to piece together enough

10
00:00:26,640 --> 00:00:30,800
Speaker 1: details to impersonate you, target you, or worse. That's where

11
00:00:30,840 --> 00:00:34,920
Speaker 1: incognate comes in. Incognate works behind the scenes to track

12
00:00:35,000 --> 00:00:38,080
Speaker 1: down and remove your personal data from hundreds of websites,

13
00:00:38,479 --> 00:00:42,760
Speaker 1: things like online directories, people search sites, and even commercial

14
00:00:42,800 --> 00:00:45,680
Speaker 1: databases that collect and sell your data without your consent.

15
00:00:46,159 --> 00:00:49,520
Speaker 1: The process is automated, and because data can pop back

16
00:00:49,600 --> 00:00:53,320
Speaker 1: up again, incognit keeps monitoring and removing it for you.

17
00:00:53,720 --> 00:00:56,160
Speaker 1: And one feature I really like its custom removals. If

18
00:00:56,160 --> 00:00:59,800
Speaker 1: you find something about yourself online that you want eliminated,

19
00:01:00,160 --> 00:01:02,240
Speaker 1: it's a listing, an old record, or something you just

20
00:01:02,280 --> 00:01:05,840
Speaker 1: don't want publicly available, you can send incognit the link

21
00:01:06,040 --> 00:01:09,280
Speaker 1: and a dedicated privacy expert handles the removal for you.

22
00:01:09,400 --> 00:01:12,039
Speaker 1: It's a great way to reduce your digital footprint and

23
00:01:12,120 --> 00:01:15,880
Speaker 1: protect yourself from scams and identity theft. Right now, you

24
00:01:15,920 --> 00:01:20,560
Speaker 1: can get sixty percent off an annual incognyplan. Just go

25
00:01:20,640 --> 00:01:24,320
Speaker 1: to incognit dot com slash Chuck podcast and use the

26
00:01:24,319 --> 00:01:27,880
Speaker 1: code Chuck podcast. Use the code you get a discal again,

27
00:01:28,040 --> 00:01:32,280
Speaker 1: that's in cogni dot com slash chucktodcast and use the

28
00:01:32,400 --> 00:01:35,520
Speaker 1: code Chuck podcast to get sixty percent off and start

29
00:01:35,560 --> 00:01:40,520
Speaker 1: taking control of your personal data today. Trust me, I'm

30
00:01:40,560 --> 00:01:44,440
Speaker 1: constantly working on this for years myself, and here's an

31
00:01:44,480 --> 00:01:46,919
Speaker 1: opportunity for you to take matters into your own hands

32
00:01:46,959 --> 00:01:53,560
Speaker 1: as well. Hello there, and welcome to the Monday episode

33
00:01:53,640 --> 00:01:56,280
Speaker 1: of the Chuck Podcast. As you can see, I'm representing

34
00:01:56,280 --> 00:01:59,720
Speaker 1: the Canes here because in my extended family, I've told

35
00:01:59,720 --> 00:02:02,440
Speaker 1: you so, we've we've we basically we have Florida State,

36
00:02:02,760 --> 00:02:06,520
Speaker 1: s m U Auburn, Arkansas. That that's sort of like

37
00:02:06,640 --> 00:02:11,359
Speaker 1: the large group of schools in our extended family that

38
00:02:11,400 --> 00:02:14,520
Speaker 1: we consistently rood for. Oh, miss, I got some ties

39
00:02:14,600 --> 00:02:19,440
Speaker 1: to I'm not going to claim LSU. Sorry, Drew, on

40
00:02:19,440 --> 00:02:21,360
Speaker 1: that one. That's that's a little hard for me. But

41
00:02:21,400 --> 00:02:23,640
Speaker 1: you guys aren't in this NCAA tournament yet, and maybe

42
00:02:23,680 --> 00:02:27,280
Speaker 1: I would if you were there. The bottom line is,

43
00:02:27,320 --> 00:02:31,399
Speaker 1: there's only in my in my extended family chats where

44
00:02:31,400 --> 00:02:35,480
Speaker 1: we care about college basketball. There are two teams left

45
00:02:35,480 --> 00:02:39,480
Speaker 1: that I have some family invested in, or at least

46
00:02:39,520 --> 00:02:42,799
Speaker 1: two teams that did that didn't lose in the first round.

47
00:02:42,880 --> 00:02:47,160
Speaker 1: So I'm representing my Canes here with that. But hey,

48
00:02:48,960 --> 00:02:50,760
Speaker 1: the tournament's kind of played out how we kind of

49
00:02:51,160 --> 00:02:55,560
Speaker 1: all thought how that it was going to be top heavy,

50
00:02:55,720 --> 00:02:58,040
Speaker 1: right two years in a row that the top four

51
00:02:58,080 --> 00:03:01,640
Speaker 1: seeds all went undefeated in the first round. This is

52
00:03:01,800 --> 00:03:04,720
Speaker 1: the conundrum of nil right. On one hand, some people

53
00:03:04,760 --> 00:03:07,720
Speaker 1: say it's terrible, it's doing terrible things for college athletics.

54
00:03:07,760 --> 00:03:12,480
Speaker 1: On the other hand, the good gets better in college basketball,

55
00:03:12,560 --> 00:03:17,639
Speaker 1: and we have seen right the top twenty five programs.

56
00:03:17,960 --> 00:03:22,080
Speaker 1: It's just a better it's better quality. College basketball feels

57
00:03:22,160 --> 00:03:26,840
Speaker 1: like as close to the eighties in competitiveness, where you

58
00:03:26,919 --> 00:03:30,520
Speaker 1: consistently had three and four year starters on teams. We

59
00:03:30,600 --> 00:03:32,360
Speaker 1: have that this time. They just don't always stay with

60
00:03:32,400 --> 00:03:35,080
Speaker 1: the same team for three or four years. But you

61
00:03:35,280 --> 00:03:40,280
Speaker 1: have that that these veteran players are sticking. They're not

62
00:03:40,400 --> 00:03:42,160
Speaker 1: testing to see if there's any money to be found

63
00:03:42,160 --> 00:03:44,880
Speaker 1: in the NBA or go make money overseas. Instead they're

64
00:03:44,880 --> 00:03:48,280
Speaker 1: staying in college basketball, and you're seeing what that does. Now,

65
00:03:48,800 --> 00:03:50,200
Speaker 1: what's the part of the tournament? We all love the

66
00:03:50,240 --> 00:03:55,400
Speaker 1: best ah those twelve, thirteen, fourteen, fifteen seed upsets. So

67
00:03:55,440 --> 00:03:57,640
Speaker 1: it was fun to watch Sienna give Duke a scare

68
00:03:57,680 --> 00:04:00,880
Speaker 1: for everybody right to see that that's still ill possible.

69
00:04:00,920 --> 00:04:04,440
Speaker 1: And there's certainly were some impressive you know, thirteen and

70
00:04:04,520 --> 00:04:07,360
Speaker 1: fourteen seeds and how they played, but you could see

71
00:04:07,400 --> 00:04:11,040
Speaker 1: that it was really because what's really been the big

72
00:04:11,040 --> 00:04:14,279
Speaker 1: difference these days between sort of the power for conferences

73
00:04:14,320 --> 00:04:19,279
Speaker 1: plus the Big East and everybody else is depth. That's

74
00:04:19,320 --> 00:04:22,040
Speaker 1: where you see it. And even these these mid majors

75
00:04:22,040 --> 00:04:24,600
Speaker 1: that have hung. You watched it with Saint Louis, with Michigan,

76
00:04:24,680 --> 00:04:28,159
Speaker 1: they can hang until they can't and they just sort

77
00:04:28,160 --> 00:04:30,640
Speaker 1: of run out of bodies. Frankly, it's something I'm concerned

78
00:04:30,680 --> 00:04:33,279
Speaker 1: about about Miami. I feel pretty good about their ability

79
00:04:33,320 --> 00:04:36,520
Speaker 1: to match up against anybody for a game, being able

80
00:04:36,560 --> 00:04:39,360
Speaker 1: to get through a grueling tournament requires a little bit

81
00:04:39,400 --> 00:04:42,240
Speaker 1: of depth. I think we're seeing that and that's probably

82
00:04:42,279 --> 00:04:45,280
Speaker 1: going to be what's decisive and who wins this national title. Right,

83
00:04:45,400 --> 00:04:47,760
Speaker 1: Is Douke going to be healthy enough by the end

84
00:04:47,839 --> 00:04:50,440
Speaker 1: to pull this off? Is Iowa State going to be

85
00:04:50,640 --> 00:04:53,040
Speaker 1: healthy enough to stay as competitive as they are? So

86
00:04:53,120 --> 00:04:56,159
Speaker 1: I know we depth is going to be a big deal.

87
00:04:56,200 --> 00:04:58,960
Speaker 1: But that's the big the big thing you do there.

88
00:04:59,000 --> 00:05:01,800
Speaker 1: But anyway, but progress, let me give you a quick

89
00:05:01,839 --> 00:05:04,200
Speaker 1: rundown of what's to come later in the show. May

90
00:05:04,240 --> 00:05:07,440
Speaker 1: be joined by Suzan kan Por. She's an independent Iranian

91
00:05:07,440 --> 00:05:11,000
Speaker 1: American journalist, somebody I've gotten to know. I met her

92
00:05:11,440 --> 00:05:13,560
Speaker 1: when I was in Abu Dhabi back in December and

93
00:05:13,600 --> 00:05:16,240
Speaker 1: we were she's been covering this. She's got a lot

94
00:05:16,240 --> 00:05:20,120
Speaker 1: of sources in country, a lot of She's worked at BBC,

95
00:05:20,240 --> 00:05:22,960
Speaker 1: she's worked at NBC. She's now in the independent space

96
00:05:24,480 --> 00:05:27,400
Speaker 1: and just trust me, it's no, there's no you know,

97
00:05:27,960 --> 00:05:31,800
Speaker 1: she is covering this from the Iranian perspective, from those

98
00:05:31,880 --> 00:05:35,040
Speaker 1: that want freedom and Iran and so I think it's

99
00:05:35,040 --> 00:05:36,920
Speaker 1: a point of view that's necessary and I think it's

100
00:05:36,960 --> 00:05:38,520
Speaker 1: a point of view that gets lost here. You know,

101
00:05:38,600 --> 00:05:40,880
Speaker 1: we sort of We get Israel's point of view, we

102
00:05:40,920 --> 00:05:42,960
Speaker 1: get what we think from the regime's point of view,

103
00:05:42,960 --> 00:05:45,320
Speaker 1: we get Donald Trump's point of view, But what about

104
00:05:45,320 --> 00:05:49,280
Speaker 1: the people on the ground right and what about the diaspora?

105
00:05:49,920 --> 00:05:52,719
Speaker 1: What are their feelings about this? So I think it's

106
00:05:52,720 --> 00:05:56,480
Speaker 1: a I definitely think you will enjoy this conversation with Suzan.

107
00:05:57,320 --> 00:06:01,800
Speaker 1: She is terrific and I've enjoyed getting to know her

108
00:06:02,480 --> 00:06:05,039
Speaker 1: over the last few months. A few other things I

109
00:06:05,080 --> 00:06:12,720
Speaker 1: want to alert you to tomorrow, as in Tuesday, I'm

110
00:06:12,800 --> 00:06:19,599
Speaker 1: very excited I'm going to be launching a new podcast show.

111
00:06:20,040 --> 00:06:21,800
Speaker 1: I'm going to be co hosting it with somebody. I

112
00:06:21,800 --> 00:06:24,960
Speaker 1: want to not get ahead of things here, I will

113
00:06:25,000 --> 00:06:27,919
Speaker 1: just leave you this clue. It is in the sports

114
00:06:28,040 --> 00:06:32,120
Speaker 1: history space. I'll be teaming up with a terrific journalist

115
00:06:32,279 --> 00:06:35,640
Speaker 1: who happens to have a deep knowledge in the area

116
00:06:35,680 --> 00:06:40,159
Speaker 1: of sports. But again, we will wait till I can't

117
00:06:40,160 --> 00:06:42,760
Speaker 1: step on my own press release on things like that.

118
00:06:42,839 --> 00:06:46,560
Speaker 1: But I'm very excited. Debuts Tuesday. Everything comes out Tuesday.

119
00:06:46,920 --> 00:06:51,599
Speaker 1: You'll start to see opportunities to take a listen to

120
00:06:51,600 --> 00:06:53,839
Speaker 1: the show in this feed and other feeds here because

121
00:06:53,839 --> 00:06:55,880
Speaker 1: guess what if I'm involved. I want you guys to

122
00:06:55,880 --> 00:06:57,599
Speaker 1: know about it, just like when I'm involved with my

123
00:06:57,640 --> 00:07:00,719
Speaker 1: other projects and including I have a fascin interview this

124
00:07:00,760 --> 00:07:05,320
Speaker 1: week on Newsphere. For those of you who subscribe, you

125
00:07:05,360 --> 00:07:09,000
Speaker 1: may have already watched it. It is with Robert Albriton.

126
00:07:09,080 --> 00:07:13,640
Speaker 1: He is one of the original founders of Politico. He

127
00:07:13,920 --> 00:07:18,840
Speaker 1: is just recently decided to hire up some former Washington

128
00:07:18,880 --> 00:07:25,440
Speaker 1: Post journalists, including perhaps their single best congressional reporter and

129
00:07:25,600 --> 00:07:28,720
Speaker 1: analysts that they have there and Paul Kane, and he

130
00:07:28,760 --> 00:07:30,360
Speaker 1: wants to try to fill the void that the Washington

131
00:07:30,400 --> 00:07:32,640
Speaker 1: Post has chosen to leave here in Washington, d C.

132
00:07:34,000 --> 00:07:37,040
Speaker 1: And it is if you are in the media business

133
00:07:37,080 --> 00:07:40,400
Speaker 1: and you are curious what is happening in the DC market,

134
00:07:40,520 --> 00:07:42,800
Speaker 1: what is Robert Albritton up to? And you should know

135
00:07:42,840 --> 00:07:47,040
Speaker 1: a little bit about his family history. His father was

136
00:07:47,120 --> 00:07:50,240
Speaker 1: the one time owner of the Washington Star, which was

137
00:07:50,640 --> 00:07:53,440
Speaker 1: a serious competitor an afternoon paper here in Washington, but

138
00:07:53,480 --> 00:07:56,360
Speaker 1: a serious competitor of the Post. There's some terrific journalists

139
00:07:56,360 --> 00:08:00,440
Speaker 1: who who go back to the Washington Stars days, but

140
00:08:00,480 --> 00:08:02,760
Speaker 1: in the sixties and seventies it was the other paper

141
00:08:02,800 --> 00:08:06,160
Speaker 1: of Washington. His family also owned one of the TV

142
00:08:06,240 --> 00:08:09,840
Speaker 1: affiliates here and was in the TV affiliate ownership business. WJLA,

143
00:08:10,240 --> 00:08:13,760
Speaker 1: the ABC affiliate in d C, was an All Britton station.

144
00:08:13,880 --> 00:08:17,560
Speaker 1: The A and WJLA stands for Albritton, Joe L Albriton. Well.

145
00:08:17,600 --> 00:08:21,640
Speaker 1: Robert is his son. Robert got in the media business himself,

146
00:08:22,400 --> 00:08:27,200
Speaker 1: working with John Harrison Jim Vandeheide found Politico. After selling

147
00:08:27,240 --> 00:08:32,040
Speaker 1: it successfully to Axel Springer, he started a journalism institute

148
00:08:32,080 --> 00:08:36,200
Speaker 1: to try to help train young journalists. But I'll be

149
00:08:36,240 --> 00:08:38,440
Speaker 1: honest to me, it looked like he was just waiting

150
00:08:38,440 --> 00:08:40,880
Speaker 1: to see what he was going to do next. He

151
00:08:40,920 --> 00:08:44,080
Speaker 1: had made a nice, tidy profit off of Politico, and

152
00:08:44,080 --> 00:08:47,440
Speaker 1: he certainly had the ability to do something here and

153
00:08:47,600 --> 00:08:52,640
Speaker 1: wants to, you know, now, get into the local space,

154
00:08:52,960 --> 00:08:56,000
Speaker 1: be a I don't know if it's necessarily a competitor

155
00:08:56,000 --> 00:08:58,520
Speaker 1: with the posts, quasi competitor with the post, but at

156
00:08:58,559 --> 00:09:05,520
Speaker 1: the same time leaning in more on the on some

157
00:09:05,559 --> 00:09:10,520
Speaker 1: of the local vacuums. That that, and what was interesting

158
00:09:10,600 --> 00:09:13,960
Speaker 1: is look in our conversation, it's pretty clear things are

159
00:09:14,000 --> 00:09:18,040
Speaker 1: a bit unformed. Still, let me just I hope you

160
00:09:18,080 --> 00:09:19,920
Speaker 1: take a look at it. Yes, it's behind a paywall.

161
00:09:19,960 --> 00:09:23,120
Speaker 1: I encourage you, if you've not subscribed, take a trial,

162
00:09:23,160 --> 00:09:26,080
Speaker 1: take a look. There's some terrific independent journalists covering the

163
00:09:26,080 --> 00:09:28,520
Speaker 1: war in Iran, in particular what's going on in Cuba.

164
00:09:29,360 --> 00:09:32,600
Speaker 1: There is plenty to learn from Newsphere. It is a

165
00:09:32,679 --> 00:09:36,640
Speaker 1: really sort of an elite, high quality news organization with

166
00:09:36,679 --> 00:09:39,960
Speaker 1: some of the some of the most intriguing journalists that

167
00:09:39,960 --> 00:09:43,720
Speaker 1: are on the ground experts in their space yours truly. Obviously,

168
00:09:43,800 --> 00:09:47,400
Speaker 1: I'm I'm an investor, I'm a participant. I'm a big

169
00:09:47,440 --> 00:09:51,040
Speaker 1: fan of this. I think the technology is terrific as well.

170
00:09:51,600 --> 00:09:53,719
Speaker 1: So let me just give you a few quotes that

171
00:09:53,920 --> 00:09:56,560
Speaker 1: Robert gave me in the interview, and again I really

172
00:09:56,640 --> 00:09:59,240
Speaker 1: encourage you. I'll have some clips on my Instagram feed,

173
00:09:59,360 --> 00:10:01,280
Speaker 1: We'll have some c so you'll be able to circulate

174
00:10:01,320 --> 00:10:04,240
Speaker 1: some of them. But let me just give you a

175
00:10:04,320 --> 00:10:06,400
Speaker 1: few quotes from him that gives it just gives you

176
00:10:06,440 --> 00:10:09,480
Speaker 1: a taste of the conversation that we had. But he

177
00:10:09,559 --> 00:10:12,160
Speaker 1: really does give an idea that I think this is going.

178
00:10:12,240 --> 00:10:15,160
Speaker 1: He wants to try to rethink what a local news

179
00:10:15,240 --> 00:10:18,440
Speaker 1: organization could be. How do you engage the community in

180
00:10:18,480 --> 00:10:23,560
Speaker 1: a way that maybe their participants, not just consumers of

181
00:10:23,600 --> 00:10:25,600
Speaker 1: the product. What do I mean by that, Well, think

182
00:10:25,640 --> 00:10:29,640
Speaker 1: local sports, think sports coaches helping to make sure maybe

183
00:10:29,640 --> 00:10:37,520
Speaker 1: be incoming a platform to showcase use sports streaming feeds

184
00:10:38,200 --> 00:10:41,000
Speaker 1: so that parents can and grandparents and aunts and uncles

185
00:10:41,040 --> 00:10:46,120
Speaker 1: can keep up with their sons, daughters, grandkids, nieces and nephews, etc.

186
00:10:47,160 --> 00:10:50,920
Speaker 1: On that. So he is thinking about sort of all

187
00:10:50,960 --> 00:10:53,120
Speaker 1: the sort of more modern ways. How do you We're

188
00:10:53,160 --> 00:10:58,920
Speaker 1: a hyper local community. People care what's going on in Arlington, Virginia,

189
00:10:59,000 --> 00:11:00,560
Speaker 1: but they may not care that much what's going on

190
00:11:00,559 --> 00:11:02,599
Speaker 1: Montgomery County. But they also care about what's going on,

191
00:11:02,640 --> 00:11:04,080
Speaker 1: but both of us may care about what's going on

192
00:11:04,120 --> 00:11:06,719
Speaker 1: in Congress. So he wants to try to figure out

193
00:11:06,720 --> 00:11:08,920
Speaker 1: how do you engage how do you be a hub

194
00:11:09,000 --> 00:11:12,600
Speaker 1: for the micro local at the same time without it

195
00:11:12,640 --> 00:11:18,000
Speaker 1: becoming too resource dependent where it becomes impossible to do

196
00:11:18,080 --> 00:11:25,240
Speaker 1: that and be able to run an organization that doesn't

197
00:11:25,280 --> 00:11:29,160
Speaker 1: lose money. So a few things, a few quotes from him.

198
00:11:29,720 --> 00:11:32,880
Speaker 1: So I'm the mission, he says. So, I think what

199
00:11:32,920 --> 00:11:35,480
Speaker 1: our mission here is to do is really cover what

200
00:11:35,559 --> 00:11:38,480
Speaker 1: I call the village in Washington, which is it's not

201
00:11:38,600 --> 00:11:40,640
Speaker 1: the entire area. I think we need to cover the

202
00:11:40,679 --> 00:11:43,520
Speaker 1: various places where people live too. But I think a

203
00:11:43,600 --> 00:11:46,000
Speaker 1: huge portion of what we're going looking to do is

204
00:11:46,040 --> 00:11:49,320
Speaker 1: acknowledge the fact that we're a factory town. Right, And

205
00:11:49,360 --> 00:11:51,240
Speaker 1: he makes this point whether folks live in rest In

206
00:11:51,320 --> 00:11:54,480
Speaker 1: or Hyattsville, which are local areas in Virginia and Maryland

207
00:11:54,520 --> 00:11:57,280
Speaker 1: suburban areas. I want to admit it. Everybody's indirectly here

208
00:11:57,320 --> 00:11:59,400
Speaker 1: because some job has something to do with the fact

209
00:11:59,400 --> 00:12:02,320
Speaker 1: that the public governments here, So we're all tied into it.

210
00:12:02,800 --> 00:12:05,040
Speaker 1: That's our primary village. But then we go down to

211
00:12:05,160 --> 00:12:07,080
Speaker 1: but it's not just covering Congress in the White House

212
00:12:07,080 --> 00:12:09,400
Speaker 1: and agencies. It also goes to people who live here.

213
00:12:09,520 --> 00:12:11,720
Speaker 1: They don't work one hundred percent of the time. What

214
00:12:12,000 --> 00:12:13,160
Speaker 1: else is going on?

215
00:12:13,920 --> 00:12:14,079
Speaker 2: Right?

216
00:12:14,400 --> 00:12:16,319
Speaker 1: Kids in school, they want to make sure. They want

217
00:12:16,320 --> 00:12:18,079
Speaker 1: to know what's going on with their neighbors. They want

218
00:12:18,120 --> 00:12:20,600
Speaker 1: to know all these things. They're interested in sports, they're

219
00:12:20,640 --> 00:12:22,680
Speaker 1: interested in weather, They're interested in all kinds of basic

220
00:12:22,760 --> 00:12:25,160
Speaker 1: things that anybody in des Moin or Tapeka or Houston

221
00:12:25,160 --> 00:12:27,000
Speaker 1: would be interested in today. So I think there's a

222
00:12:27,040 --> 00:12:30,240
Speaker 1: magic blend between two of those that works to make

223
00:12:30,280 --> 00:12:34,040
Speaker 1: it the hometown paper seems pretty simple enough. Again, there's

224
00:12:34,040 --> 00:12:38,720
Speaker 1: a lot more to it. Trust me, I don't. I'm

225
00:12:38,760 --> 00:12:41,319
Speaker 1: not shy about, you know, giving them my points of

226
00:12:41,400 --> 00:12:44,680
Speaker 1: view and my ideas and we banter back and forth.

227
00:12:45,200 --> 00:12:47,200
Speaker 1: If you care about the future of local media, if

228
00:12:47,240 --> 00:12:49,160
Speaker 1: you care about the future of Washington media, if you

229
00:12:49,200 --> 00:12:51,520
Speaker 1: care about the future of the information ecosystem, I think

230
00:12:51,559 --> 00:12:57,400
Speaker 1: you'll enjoy this conversation. I'll tell you one thing about

231
00:12:57,440 --> 00:13:01,120
Speaker 1: Robert Albert. He's kind of a happy warrior. He really

232
00:13:01,600 --> 00:13:06,280
Speaker 1: I think he. I think, Look, you know, you never

233
00:13:06,320 --> 00:13:08,840
Speaker 1: know for sure, but I really think he because he's

234
00:13:09,040 --> 00:13:12,040
Speaker 1: grew up here, he lives here. I think that's a

235
00:13:12,160 --> 00:13:15,440
Speaker 1: huge distinction with Jeff Bezos. I think he didn't by

236
00:13:15,480 --> 00:13:18,920
Speaker 1: not ever living here, he didn't understand what the Washington

237
00:13:18,960 --> 00:13:22,120
Speaker 1: Post meant to people personally. And I think that lack

238
00:13:22,200 --> 00:13:26,160
Speaker 1: of knowledge of him not leaving living here, I think

239
00:13:26,200 --> 00:13:28,200
Speaker 1: he might have cared. You know, he might have understood

240
00:13:28,200 --> 00:13:30,079
Speaker 1: it more because he lived in Northwest Seattle. He never

241
00:13:30,120 --> 00:13:32,840
Speaker 1: lived here. And this is what happens. This is why

242
00:13:32,880 --> 00:13:34,760
Speaker 1: you never want to sell see your sports teams bought

243
00:13:34,800 --> 00:13:36,760
Speaker 1: up by outsiders. You never want to see your local

244
00:13:36,800 --> 00:13:41,000
Speaker 1: institutions bought up by outsiders because they do not have

245
00:13:41,160 --> 00:13:46,040
Speaker 1: the personal investment. And that's ultimately what feels like the

246
00:13:46,080 --> 00:13:49,560
Speaker 1: distinction here between all Burton and Bezos. One grew up

247
00:13:49,600 --> 00:13:51,240
Speaker 1: here seems to do, at the end of the day,

248
00:13:52,120 --> 00:13:55,240
Speaker 1: care about the community and maybe care what his friends

249
00:13:55,240 --> 00:13:57,480
Speaker 1: and neighbors think of what he's doing as a steward

250
00:13:57,920 --> 00:13:59,960
Speaker 1: in the community, versus the Jeff Bezos, who has no

251
00:14:00,080 --> 00:14:05,760
Speaker 1: friends and neighbors. Here just a little thought there. But anyway,

252
00:14:05,840 --> 00:14:08,000
Speaker 1: so I've got that, I've got the new podcast on

253
00:14:08,000 --> 00:14:11,880
Speaker 1: sports history launching on Tuesday that I'm very excited about.

254
00:14:13,280 --> 00:14:18,200
Speaker 1: But let's get to what's going on in the world

255
00:14:18,320 --> 00:14:21,280
Speaker 1: of politics. And as you know, I've said it before

256
00:14:21,320 --> 00:14:24,560
Speaker 1: and I will say it again, there is only one

257
00:14:25,000 --> 00:14:31,120
Speaker 1: story at the moment. You know, Ultimately, the war in

258
00:14:31,160 --> 00:14:35,840
Speaker 1: Iran is impacting everything. It's impacting the economy, it's impacting politics,

259
00:14:35,840 --> 00:14:38,600
Speaker 1: It's impacting everything this point. So we're far enough into

260
00:14:38,600 --> 00:14:43,120
Speaker 1: this war to say this as plainly as possible. Everything

261
00:14:43,160 --> 00:14:46,360
Speaker 1: else is downstream of this, the economy, the election, energy prices,

262
00:14:46,680 --> 00:14:49,400
Speaker 1: the broader media environment. And yet for all the coverage,

263
00:14:49,440 --> 00:14:52,840
Speaker 1: one basic question remains unanswered on this war. What does

264
00:14:52,880 --> 00:14:56,240
Speaker 1: the end of this look like, Because wars tend to

265
00:14:56,320 --> 00:14:59,960
Speaker 1: end one of two ways, total surrender or a viable

266
00:15:00,040 --> 00:15:02,640
Speaker 1: links it ran. Right now, it's hard to see either,

267
00:15:03,400 --> 00:15:06,520
Speaker 1: and that's what makes this moment so dangerous. So let's

268
00:15:06,520 --> 00:15:08,640
Speaker 1: start with something that might seem secondary of the war itself,

269
00:15:08,680 --> 00:15:13,120
Speaker 1: but politically it's not. Gas prices. The rising energy costs

270
00:15:13,200 --> 00:15:16,160
Speaker 1: are not politically neutral, and this is a huge problem

271
00:15:16,240 --> 00:15:21,240
Speaker 1: for the president. They hit different voters in different ways,

272
00:15:21,840 --> 00:15:23,440
Speaker 1: and in this case, the voters who are going to

273
00:15:23,480 --> 00:15:26,120
Speaker 1: feel this first, who are feeling in the moment and

274
00:15:26,160 --> 00:15:29,080
Speaker 1: they're getting the artists, are the voters that are most

275
00:15:29,160 --> 00:15:32,880
Speaker 1: likely part of Donald Trump's coalition. In a city, a

276
00:15:32,920 --> 00:15:36,000
Speaker 1: gas hike is an annoyance on an app in the

277
00:15:36,000 --> 00:15:40,520
Speaker 1: excerbs and in rural America, a majority of whom are

278
00:15:40,520 --> 00:15:43,560
Speaker 1: Trump supporters, and we're Trump voters. This is a tax

279
00:15:43,640 --> 00:15:48,880
Speaker 1: on simply existing. You can't subway your way out of

280
00:15:48,920 --> 00:15:52,920
Speaker 1: a commute in Pennsylvania, Ohio. You live it. And that's

281
00:15:52,960 --> 00:15:55,640
Speaker 1: the shift here that matters the most. This isn't just

282
00:15:56,000 --> 00:15:59,120
Speaker 1: an economic hit to all of us, it's to a

283
00:15:59,160 --> 00:16:02,480
Speaker 1: specific group of voters. It's a breach of the populist

284
00:16:02,520 --> 00:16:07,000
Speaker 1: contract that Trump agreed to with them, the promise that

285
00:16:07,080 --> 00:16:10,680
Speaker 1: the system would work better for them. It's blown up

286
00:16:10,680 --> 00:16:14,880
Speaker 1: in their face, one expensive.

287
00:16:15,960 --> 00:16:16,960
Speaker 3: Gas tank at a time.

288
00:16:18,480 --> 00:16:20,960
Speaker 1: Your costs were supposed to go down, instead they're going up.

289
00:16:21,120 --> 00:16:23,280
Speaker 1: Your life was supposed to get easier. Instead it's gotten

290
00:16:23,280 --> 00:16:26,560
Speaker 1: more complicated. The cost of simply getting through the day

291
00:16:26,760 --> 00:16:28,720
Speaker 1: is right. There is now a tax I'm just picking

292
00:16:28,760 --> 00:16:30,840
Speaker 1: up your kids from school. There is a new Trump

293
00:16:30,920 --> 00:16:33,360
Speaker 1: tax on just going to the grocery store. There's a

294
00:16:33,400 --> 00:16:36,080
Speaker 1: new Trump tax I'm going from one job to another.

295
00:16:39,600 --> 00:16:44,360
Speaker 1: And this war has no clear endpoint, which brings us

296
00:16:44,400 --> 00:16:47,680
Speaker 1: to the core strategic issue. So we're trying to apply

297
00:16:47,760 --> 00:16:50,320
Speaker 1: pressure right now, economic and military on a regime that

298
00:16:50,400 --> 00:16:54,200
Speaker 1: may not respond to pressure the way small deed democracies do.

299
00:16:54,720 --> 00:16:59,080
Speaker 1: We think in terms of incentives, costs go up, behavior changes,

300
00:17:01,280 --> 00:17:04,240
Speaker 1: pain increases, pressure builds. I'll give you a simple answer.

301
00:17:04,280 --> 00:17:08,320
Speaker 1: We shack up taxes on cigarettes. Just made them vice taxes.

302
00:17:08,480 --> 00:17:10,560
Speaker 1: The point was to get people to make it so

303
00:17:10,640 --> 00:17:12,919
Speaker 1: expensive that they would change their habit, and for the

304
00:17:12,920 --> 00:17:16,600
Speaker 1: most part people have. It's pretty it's been a pretty

305
00:17:16,640 --> 00:17:23,760
Speaker 1: effective way to to help cut back. That's just a

306
00:17:23,800 --> 00:17:29,600
Speaker 1: small incentive. Right, it's a behavioral incentive, But that logic

307
00:17:29,600 --> 00:17:31,560
Speaker 1: doesn't cleanly apply in this war. At the moment, we're

308
00:17:31,600 --> 00:17:34,040
Speaker 1: trying to play chess against a regime that is not

309
00:17:34,119 --> 00:17:37,879
Speaker 1: operating on a conventional strategic board. You cannot bank on

310
00:17:38,200 --> 00:17:42,280
Speaker 1: rational economic actors when the leadership views suffering as a

311
00:17:42,280 --> 00:17:47,480
Speaker 1: tool of domestic control. Right, we sit here and think, hey,

312
00:17:47,520 --> 00:17:50,119
Speaker 1: your people are going to suffer these This regime was

313
00:17:50,160 --> 00:17:53,800
Speaker 1: willing to kill its own people that protested them. So

314
00:17:54,800 --> 00:18:00,000
Speaker 1: the president threatening them with more suffering, it may not

315
00:18:00,240 --> 00:18:03,560
Speaker 1: have the impact he thinks it's supposed to have. Sanctions

316
00:18:03,560 --> 00:18:07,199
Speaker 1: are a scalpel. The regime wields a sledgehammer. This is

317
00:18:07,240 --> 00:18:11,600
Speaker 1: a system that has repeatedly shown it is willing to

318
00:18:11,640 --> 00:18:14,560
Speaker 1: absorb pain. Look at how long we've had sanctions on Iran.

319
00:18:16,040 --> 00:18:18,639
Speaker 1: They not only absorb it, then they impose it and

320
00:18:18,680 --> 00:18:24,960
Speaker 1: they punish their own people, all to maintain power. So normal, small,

321
00:18:25,040 --> 00:18:27,280
Speaker 1: the democratic incentives are not going to work.

322
00:18:27,160 --> 00:18:28,120
Speaker 3: With these folks.

323
00:18:28,960 --> 00:18:31,639
Speaker 1: So the pressure Then the question becomes what is the

324
00:18:31,680 --> 00:18:36,080
Speaker 1: pressure point? What does force a change in behavior? I

325
00:18:36,080 --> 00:18:41,000
Speaker 1: think we naively thought just eliminating the Ayatola was going

326
00:18:41,040 --> 00:18:43,159
Speaker 1: to do it, and that there was going to somehow

327
00:18:43,160 --> 00:18:45,439
Speaker 1: be all these people below who were not devoted to

328
00:18:45,440 --> 00:18:48,640
Speaker 1: the regime. Oh, the ietol is gone. Let's go cut

329
00:18:48,640 --> 00:18:53,760
Speaker 1: a deal, just like he got in Venezuela. And I

330
00:18:53,920 --> 00:18:57,320
Speaker 1: am concerned. I'm going to repeat this. He is not.

331
00:18:58,080 --> 00:19:03,240
Speaker 1: I think that only General Kine tried to be specific

332
00:19:03,320 --> 00:19:07,359
Speaker 1: with him about the potential calamities that could come with this,

333
00:19:07,640 --> 00:19:11,159
Speaker 1: the un you know, the the unintended consequence of starting

334
00:19:11,160 --> 00:19:14,159
Speaker 1: this war. Why do I think General Kine was the

335
00:19:14,200 --> 00:19:15,639
Speaker 1: only one, because he also then went to the Wall

336
00:19:15,680 --> 00:19:18,120
Speaker 1: Street Journal, Washington Post, and New York Times and seemed

337
00:19:18,200 --> 00:19:21,480
Speaker 1: to make sure his skepticism was his public and was

338
00:19:21,480 --> 00:19:24,439
Speaker 1: in every place that the president could see it. But

339
00:19:24,480 --> 00:19:26,439
Speaker 1: it doesn't sound like anybody else told the president what

340
00:19:26,480 --> 00:19:28,560
Speaker 1: he didn't want to hear. Everybody told him what he

341
00:19:28,600 --> 00:19:31,600
Speaker 1: wanted to hear on this. And this is what happens.

342
00:19:31,600 --> 00:19:35,600
Speaker 1: This is why a presidency built the way he built it,

343
00:19:35,800 --> 00:19:38,680
Speaker 1: where loyalty is one hundred percent, and telling him news

344
00:19:38,680 --> 00:19:40,440
Speaker 1: that he doesn't want to hear can get you fired.

345
00:19:41,119 --> 00:19:43,199
Speaker 1: This is how you end up in a circumstance like this.

346
00:19:45,080 --> 00:19:47,959
Speaker 1: So look, this is this is why sick of fans

347
00:19:49,920 --> 00:19:55,240
Speaker 1: in an administration actually endanger your life and my life.

348
00:19:55,320 --> 00:19:58,280
Speaker 1: These sick of fans, these spineless folks who just want

349
00:19:58,320 --> 00:20:00,679
Speaker 1: to be close to power, who are willing to do

350
00:20:01,400 --> 00:20:05,479
Speaker 1: whatever it takes to keep dear leader happy, are putting

351
00:20:05,560 --> 00:20:08,119
Speaker 1: you and I in danger, are rising the cost of

352
00:20:08,160 --> 00:20:12,800
Speaker 1: our gas prices. That's mindlessness. Now maybe he does this anyway,

353
00:20:13,760 --> 00:20:16,679
Speaker 1: but let's not pretend he was told all of the

354
00:20:16,720 --> 00:20:20,080
Speaker 1: consequences in the detail that he needed to be told.

355
00:20:20,400 --> 00:20:25,040
Speaker 1: That might have where other presidents did set themselves up

356
00:20:25,040 --> 00:20:30,680
Speaker 1: to make sure they were getting feedback that wasn't sickophantish

357
00:20:31,040 --> 00:20:35,159
Speaker 1: in nature. This president, he has designed an administration to

358
00:20:35,240 --> 00:20:37,840
Speaker 1: be sick of fantic I mean, we've seen those cabinet meetings.

359
00:20:38,320 --> 00:20:44,200
Speaker 1: They're embarrassing. They're hilarious, except that it impacts all of

360
00:20:44,240 --> 00:20:47,760
Speaker 1: our lives. If we were observing another country, we would

361
00:20:47,920 --> 00:20:51,960
Speaker 1: mock and just find it absolutely Like God, look at

362
00:20:51,960 --> 00:20:55,919
Speaker 1: these nutjobs and what they do. We do laugh at

363
00:20:55,960 --> 00:20:58,760
Speaker 1: North Korea when we see the North Korean anchors, We

364
00:20:58,840 --> 00:21:03,800
Speaker 1: laugh at Bagdad Bob. Suddenly we have, you know, propaganda pede.

365
00:21:04,720 --> 00:21:09,280
Speaker 1: It's really it again. But wasn't so dangerous It would

366
00:21:09,320 --> 00:21:14,359
Speaker 1: be funny, But it's extraordinarily dangerous situation than being in Again.

367
00:21:15,000 --> 00:21:19,200
Speaker 1: We're here in this where he's boxed himself in, where

368
00:21:19,240 --> 00:21:21,760
Speaker 1: I think we're gonna end up escalating because we have

369
00:21:21,840 --> 00:21:22,840
Speaker 1: no other choice.

370
00:21:23,640 --> 00:21:23,760
Speaker 2: Is it?

371
00:21:23,840 --> 00:21:27,320
Speaker 1: Perhaps even finding an exit ramp at this point would

372
00:21:27,400 --> 00:21:30,600
Speaker 1: just essentially hand the region and hand global superpower to China.

373
00:21:34,240 --> 00:21:36,560
Speaker 1: This episode of the Chuck Podcast is brought to you

374
00:21:36,600 --> 00:21:40,520
Speaker 1: by Wild Grain. Wild Grain is the first bake from

375
00:21:40,600 --> 00:21:45,480
Speaker 1: frozen subscription box for sour dough breads, arteasonal pastries, and

376
00:21:45,520 --> 00:21:48,959
Speaker 1: fresh pastas, plus all the items conveniently baked in twenty

377
00:21:49,040 --> 00:21:53,040
Speaker 1: five minutes or less. Unlike many store brought options, Wild

378
00:21:53,040 --> 00:21:56,080
Speaker 1: Grain uses some simple ingredients you can pronounce and a

379
00:21:56,280 --> 00:21:59,639
Speaker 1: slow fermentation process that can be a lot easier on

380
00:21:59,680 --> 00:22:04,040
Speaker 1: your little gut health there right, and richer in nutrients antioxidants.

381
00:22:04,160 --> 00:22:07,320
Speaker 1: There's also no preservatives and no shortcuts. The Wild Grain

382
00:22:07,359 --> 00:22:10,840
Speaker 1: boxes are fully customizable. In addition to their variety box,

383
00:22:10,880 --> 00:22:13,560
Speaker 1: they have a gluten free box, a vegan box, and

384
00:22:13,680 --> 00:22:16,879
Speaker 1: a new protein box. I will tell you I have

385
00:22:16,960 --> 00:22:19,280
Speaker 1: done the gluten free box. I have done it a

386
00:22:19,320 --> 00:22:23,520
Speaker 1: second time. I have also used the code. The todcast

387
00:22:23,560 --> 00:22:26,159
Speaker 1: code you use the promo code podcast at check out,

388
00:22:26,280 --> 00:22:29,840
Speaker 1: you get thirty dollars off. I've already used it as

389
00:22:29,880 --> 00:22:33,119
Speaker 1: a gift to somebody else who loves this bread. It

390
00:22:33,200 --> 00:22:36,760
Speaker 1: is hard to find good gluten free bread. It is fantastic.

391
00:22:36,960 --> 00:22:39,919
Speaker 1: They give you step by step instructions. I really dig this.

392
00:22:40,760 --> 00:22:43,959
Speaker 1: There is nothing like having an artesian bakery in your

393
00:22:44,000 --> 00:22:46,760
Speaker 1: freezer to chase away the winter chill. Now is the

394
00:22:46,760 --> 00:22:50,080
Speaker 1: best time to stay in and enjoy some comforting homemade

395
00:22:50,160 --> 00:22:53,800
Speaker 1: meals with Wildgrain. I obviously highly recommend it. It is

396
00:22:54,000 --> 00:22:56,440
Speaker 1: worth giving Wild Green to try. Right now, Wild Grain

397
00:22:56,560 --> 00:22:59,119
Speaker 1: is offering my listeners thirty dollars off your first box

398
00:22:59,280 --> 00:23:02,919
Speaker 1: plus free cruissants for life. Come on when you go

399
00:23:03,000 --> 00:23:07,159
Speaker 1: to wildgrain dot com slash podcast to start your subscription today.

400
00:23:07,280 --> 00:23:10,560
Speaker 1: That's thirty dollars off your first box and free croissants

401
00:23:10,560 --> 00:23:13,879
Speaker 1: for life. When you visit wildgrain dot com, slash podcast,

402
00:23:14,000 --> 00:23:17,840
Speaker 1: or simply use the promo code podcast at checkout. This

403
00:23:17,920 --> 00:23:22,000
Speaker 1: is a sponsor I absolutely embrace, so use that code.

404
00:23:25,119 --> 00:23:27,600
Speaker 1: So here we are. There's no clear incentive for surrender.

405
00:23:28,080 --> 00:23:33,640
Speaker 1: There's no clear off ran for the United States. There's

406
00:23:33,720 --> 00:23:35,679
Speaker 1: every chance that we just are sort of you know,

407
00:23:35,760 --> 00:23:38,760
Speaker 1: we basically the United States may have made the exact

408
00:23:38,840 --> 00:23:41,440
Speaker 1: same miscalculation that Russian made with Ukraine. Now this will

409
00:23:41,480 --> 00:23:46,840
Speaker 1: be easy, this will be quick. We'll overwhelm them for

410
00:23:46,960 --> 00:23:50,800
Speaker 1: more than five years into that war in Ukraine. And

411
00:23:50,840 --> 00:23:53,960
Speaker 1: then there's the coalition question. So over the last year,

412
00:23:54,080 --> 00:23:58,199
Speaker 1: US foreign policy has been defined less by partnership and

413
00:23:58,280 --> 00:24:07,120
Speaker 1: more by transaction and coercion. Tariffs, public pressure, burden sharing demands,

414
00:24:09,240 --> 00:24:13,119
Speaker 1: beating up these folks in public. Right, these things have consequences.

415
00:24:13,680 --> 00:24:17,240
Speaker 1: So when you treat your foreign policy like a protection racket,

416
00:24:17,680 --> 00:24:20,800
Speaker 1: your partners start acting like reluctant customers. They'll do what

417
00:24:20,800 --> 00:24:22,680
Speaker 1: they have to, but they're not going to be there

418
00:24:22,680 --> 00:24:25,680
Speaker 1: when you need them. They're not going to be looking

419
00:24:25,720 --> 00:24:28,520
Speaker 1: for shared victories with you. They're going to basically be

420
00:24:28,560 --> 00:24:32,360
Speaker 1: looking for exits. A coalition of the coerced is never

421
00:24:32,400 --> 00:24:36,119
Speaker 1: a coalition of the willing. And right now that's the

422
00:24:36,160 --> 00:24:39,080
Speaker 1: reality we're dealing with. He beats the crap out of

423
00:24:39,119 --> 00:24:41,320
Speaker 1: our allies over the last year and a half. He

424
00:24:41,440 --> 00:24:46,080
Speaker 1: pounds them with tariffs, he landbasts them from you know,

425
00:24:46,160 --> 00:24:49,399
Speaker 1: every which way, and then when they don't show up

426
00:24:49,440 --> 00:24:51,800
Speaker 1: when we really could use them at the moment.

427
00:24:53,960 --> 00:24:55,359
Speaker 3: They're not there, and.

428
00:24:55,280 --> 00:24:58,320
Speaker 1: Do you blame them? You know, think about any of

429
00:24:58,320 --> 00:25:02,240
Speaker 1: your relationships in life, right, somebody needs your help, if

430
00:25:02,240 --> 00:25:06,439
Speaker 1: they've been an asshole to you, how likely are you

431
00:25:06,520 --> 00:25:09,920
Speaker 1: to pick up a hand to help. You may help

432
00:25:09,960 --> 00:25:13,879
Speaker 1: because you think it helps the greater neighborhood, but you

433
00:25:13,960 --> 00:25:20,880
Speaker 1: may be just as likely to say good luck. Right,

434
00:25:23,600 --> 00:25:28,760
Speaker 1: that's a shame. I wish you all the best. And

435
00:25:28,800 --> 00:25:31,119
Speaker 1: that's the situation that Donald Trump has put us in.

436
00:25:31,160 --> 00:25:37,240
Speaker 1: We are isolated, we are alone, and we could use

437
00:25:37,280 --> 00:25:42,040
Speaker 1: the help. Of course, if he had built you know, again,

438
00:25:42,119 --> 00:25:44,440
Speaker 1: he did none of this spade work that you're supposed

439
00:25:44,480 --> 00:25:49,119
Speaker 1: to do that you should have done before launching this excursion,

440
00:25:49,760 --> 00:25:52,720
Speaker 1: which come on, we all know this. It's an incursion

441
00:25:52,800 --> 00:25:56,800
Speaker 1: that he's trying to say, but instead he keeps saying excursion.

442
00:25:56,840 --> 00:26:02,480
Speaker 1: I mean it's you know, Donald Trump's very sort of

443
00:26:02,560 --> 00:26:05,600
Speaker 1: narrow vocabulary at times can be amusing.

444
00:26:06,080 --> 00:26:06,280
Speaker 2: You know.

445
00:26:06,359 --> 00:26:10,160
Speaker 1: His obsession with the idea that somehow all of these

446
00:26:10,200 --> 00:26:14,680
Speaker 1: immigrants that have come into this country are in are

447
00:26:14,960 --> 00:26:19,760
Speaker 1: coming from insane asylums is because he conflates the word asylum.

448
00:26:20,920 --> 00:26:25,760
Speaker 1: He hears asylum and he thinks a a institution that

449
00:26:26,320 --> 00:26:32,480
Speaker 1: holds mentally deranged people or mentally unhealthy people, when it

450
00:26:32,600 --> 00:26:36,440
Speaker 1: is obviously an entirely different definition when you're dealing with immigration.

451
00:26:36,560 --> 00:26:39,399
Speaker 1: So it is amusing with his excursion, this is not

452
00:26:39,480 --> 00:26:43,440
Speaker 1: an excursion. If you want to call it an incursion.

453
00:26:43,600 --> 00:26:46,879
Speaker 1: You might call it an incursion, but it is it

454
00:26:46,960 --> 00:26:52,919
Speaker 1: is amusing. But this goes back that we just we

455
00:26:53,040 --> 00:26:56,000
Speaker 1: just sort of dismiss and I you know, oh, it's

456
00:26:56,040 --> 00:26:59,280
Speaker 1: just Trump and Trump, you know, Blue Tarski when the

457
00:26:59,320 --> 00:27:05,360
Speaker 1: Germans bomb are Harbor Germans excursion, incursion. You know, he's

458
00:27:05,359 --> 00:27:07,800
Speaker 1: on a roll, right that that that's what we end

459
00:27:07,880 --> 00:27:15,399
Speaker 1: up doing. But we're in We're we're in it deep.

460
00:27:15,680 --> 00:27:17,440
Speaker 1: We could use some help with the straight of horror

461
00:27:17,440 --> 00:27:20,119
Speaker 1: moons and if he had put together a coalition and

462
00:27:20,200 --> 00:27:25,760
Speaker 1: explained everything he was going to do. But now you

463
00:27:25,840 --> 00:27:29,960
Speaker 1: understand why so many American presidents, Democrat and Republican have

464
00:27:30,080 --> 00:27:33,520
Speaker 1: been very careful here on Iran. It's because they will

465
00:27:33,520 --> 00:27:41,440
Speaker 1: fight back asymmetrically. This is this. I mean, look, this playbook, this,

466
00:27:41,440 --> 00:27:47,560
Speaker 1: this asymmetrical playbook was written in Vietnam, was perfected in Afghanistan,

467
00:27:48,560 --> 00:27:53,960
Speaker 1: and has essentially been used against great powers. Everywhere we've been,

468
00:27:55,080 --> 00:27:59,600
Speaker 1: we've overcome it eventually. In Iraq we eventually would overcome it,

469
00:27:59,680 --> 00:28:03,560
Speaker 1: but got drawn way out right what was initially an

470
00:28:03,600 --> 00:28:08,679
Speaker 1: overwhelming victory. We were dealing with insurgent for years, and

471
00:28:08,760 --> 00:28:13,919
Speaker 1: of course in Afghanistan we never really won, end up

472
00:28:13,920 --> 00:28:17,400
Speaker 1: handing the country over to the group of people we

473
00:28:17,400 --> 00:28:20,439
Speaker 1: were never intending to hand the country over to. The

474
00:28:20,480 --> 00:28:23,880
Speaker 1: hope was to have a pluralistic society of some sort.

475
00:28:25,400 --> 00:28:32,000
Speaker 1: That did not happen again asymmetric warfare. So how's Ukraine surviving?

476
00:28:32,359 --> 00:28:33,520
Speaker 1: Asymmetric warfare?

477
00:28:34,760 --> 00:28:34,960
Speaker 3: Here?

478
00:28:35,000 --> 00:28:37,800
Speaker 1: We are so at least to something else, more intangible,

479
00:28:38,280 --> 00:28:41,440
Speaker 1: but just as important, leadership, Because presidents and moments like

480
00:28:41,480 --> 00:28:45,360
Speaker 1: this typically do something very specific specific they're supposed to

481
00:28:45,400 --> 00:28:48,520
Speaker 1: project steadiness even when they don't feel it. And what's

482
00:28:48,520 --> 00:28:51,000
Speaker 1: striking here it's not just the volatility. It's the absence

483
00:28:51,040 --> 00:28:52,120
Speaker 1: of any effort.

484
00:28:51,800 --> 00:28:53,200
Speaker 3: To mask it.

485
00:28:53,200 --> 00:28:56,120
Speaker 1: It's not simply a messaging issue, but he literally vacillates

486
00:28:56,120 --> 00:29:00,400
Speaker 1: from day to day. We don't need you, exp prefer

487
00:29:00,520 --> 00:29:04,320
Speaker 1: help of our allies. You know, every day it's an Unpredictably,

488
00:29:04,440 --> 00:29:06,440
Speaker 1: you have forty eight hours to open the straight of

489
00:29:06,440 --> 00:29:09,040
Speaker 1: horn moves roon or We're going to blow up your

490
00:29:09,080 --> 00:29:10,240
Speaker 1: largest energy structure.

491
00:29:10,440 --> 00:29:12,160
Speaker 3: You know what Their largest energy structure is.

492
00:29:12,120 --> 00:29:16,240
Speaker 1: A nuclear reactor. We're going to bomb a nuclear reactor

493
00:29:16,320 --> 00:29:18,960
Speaker 1: the United States. By the way, I have my time

494
00:29:19,000 --> 00:29:23,720
Speaker 1: machine in this episode. Nuclear reactors are a theme to

495
00:29:23,800 --> 00:29:26,600
Speaker 1: this week's time machine. But I so there's a fun

496
00:29:26,640 --> 00:29:30,760
Speaker 1: little teas for you. There are we going to do this?

497
00:29:31,720 --> 00:29:36,120
Speaker 1: We just lectured Israel to stop bombing certain energy infrastructure

498
00:29:36,160 --> 00:29:39,600
Speaker 1: so that these countries can get rebuilt within a reasonable

499
00:29:39,640 --> 00:29:42,320
Speaker 1: amount of time and have an economy and not just

500
00:29:42,400 --> 00:29:46,200
Speaker 1: tank the entire global economy. And now we've got mister

501
00:29:46,240 --> 00:29:49,400
Speaker 1: hothead on truth Social saying, you've got forty eight hours

502
00:29:49,760 --> 00:29:52,000
Speaker 1: and we know what's going on here. He is panicking

503
00:29:52,000 --> 00:29:55,600
Speaker 1: about gas prices. It all goes to back his voter, right.

504
00:29:55,680 --> 00:29:58,280
Speaker 1: You own an F one fifty, you own a specifically,

505
00:29:58,280 --> 00:30:00,520
Speaker 1: if you own a Dodge Ram, which is probably the

506
00:30:00,520 --> 00:30:04,360
Speaker 1: worst of the gas mileage, that is, you want to

507
00:30:04,360 --> 00:30:07,840
Speaker 1: pick up truck in America, you're probably more likely to

508
00:30:07,880 --> 00:30:10,360
Speaker 1: vote for Donald Trump. You're more likely to drive more

509
00:30:11,120 --> 00:30:16,280
Speaker 1: miles than than than most people. You probably live in

510
00:30:17,280 --> 00:30:20,200
Speaker 1: a larger geographic area that you conduct your day to

511
00:30:20,240 --> 00:30:28,440
Speaker 1: day life. Rural and Exurban America. His voters. He is

512
00:30:28,560 --> 00:30:32,440
Speaker 1: punishing them financially right now, and it's not going to

513
00:30:32,520 --> 00:30:36,320
Speaker 1: get over. More could start stop tomorrow. We're still months

514
00:30:36,640 --> 00:30:41,200
Speaker 1: before things get back to normal on the energy markets, therefore,

515
00:30:41,240 --> 00:30:45,760
Speaker 1: months before you start to see relief in the prices.

516
00:30:47,400 --> 00:30:52,080
Speaker 1: And again it's his voters that could hit first. So

517
00:30:52,840 --> 00:31:02,600
Speaker 1: his panic is politically explainable. Here, it's completely explainable. But

518
00:31:02,680 --> 00:31:05,080
Speaker 1: this is what happens when you don't think things through

519
00:31:05,120 --> 00:31:08,400
Speaker 1: before you make a decision like this, and you just

520
00:31:08,760 --> 00:31:11,040
Speaker 1: continue to get told everything's going to be easy. You're

521
00:31:11,040 --> 00:31:13,960
Speaker 1: told what you want to hear, so you get the

522
00:31:14,040 --> 00:31:17,720
Speaker 1: sickophants that have put us in danger. Lack of planning

523
00:31:17,760 --> 00:31:21,080
Speaker 1: has put us in danger. Alienating our allies has put

524
00:31:21,160 --> 00:31:23,320
Speaker 1: us in danger. Other than that things are going swimmingly

525
00:31:23,360 --> 00:31:28,840
Speaker 1: with this war, something else happened this weekend that's sort

526
00:31:28,840 --> 00:31:32,200
Speaker 1: of exposed something that is not surprising about this president,

527
00:31:32,240 --> 00:31:39,240
Speaker 1: but continues to it continues to depress me. Right. It's

528
00:31:39,280 --> 00:31:43,880
Speaker 1: the death of Robert Muller, former FBI director, just basically

529
00:31:43,960 --> 00:31:48,240
Speaker 1: a model public servant, served in Vietnam, served as SBI

530
00:31:48,320 --> 00:31:52,400
Speaker 1: director during nine to eleven. I mean, really sort of

531
00:31:53,280 --> 00:31:57,680
Speaker 1: brought the FBI out of out of you know, sort

532
00:31:57,680 --> 00:32:02,520
Speaker 1: of helped rebuild its reputation in a positive direct. Just

533
00:32:02,560 --> 00:32:04,959
Speaker 1: a fine you know, he's got a fine, long resume

534
00:32:05,040 --> 00:32:08,800
Speaker 1: of public service, and by all accounts, this is an

535
00:32:08,800 --> 00:32:14,800
Speaker 1: honorable individual. You may disagree with what he did or

536
00:32:14,840 --> 00:32:18,920
Speaker 1: how he conducted himself during the Special Council investigation of

537
00:32:18,960 --> 00:32:24,040
Speaker 1: the twenty sixteen campaign, but I imagine most of you

538
00:32:24,080 --> 00:32:27,040
Speaker 1: would have some respect for anybody that wore the uniform

539
00:32:27,080 --> 00:32:33,800
Speaker 1: and served this country, anybody that helped rebuild this country

540
00:32:33,840 --> 00:32:36,200
Speaker 1: and go find the bad guys after nine to eleven.

541
00:32:37,400 --> 00:32:48,040
Speaker 1: These would be good things are And Donald Trump celebrates

542
00:32:48,040 --> 00:32:53,640
Speaker 1: his death and you know, you know it's easy. I was,

543
00:32:55,280 --> 00:32:58,240
Speaker 1: it's easy to dunk on him in moments like this, right,

544
00:32:58,400 --> 00:33:00,600
Speaker 1: and you know, and I know that you know, duck

545
00:33:00,680 --> 00:33:02,800
Speaker 1: on him. And hey, take a look at this video

546
00:33:02,840 --> 00:33:05,600
Speaker 1: and look, Donald Trump's an asshole. See there's more proof

547
00:33:05,640 --> 00:33:10,360
Speaker 1: of it, right, there's no doubt, Like I mean, it is.

548
00:33:10,960 --> 00:33:15,440
Speaker 1: It's just, you know, I know, we're never it's never

549
00:33:15,480 --> 00:33:19,120
Speaker 1: surprising anymore when he has no problem sort of just

550
00:33:22,000 --> 00:33:31,520
Speaker 1: you know what to people who die, It's it's truly sad.

551
00:33:31,560 --> 00:33:36,120
Speaker 1: I mean it was sort of my old friend Britt Hume,

552
00:33:36,400 --> 00:33:41,040
Speaker 1: who's a political analyst for Fox. He said something very

553
00:33:41,040 --> 00:33:43,280
Speaker 1: plainly on X that I'm going to repeat here because

554
00:33:43,280 --> 00:33:49,640
Speaker 1: he's right, and I want to unpack it here for

555
00:33:49,680 --> 00:33:53,840
Speaker 1: a minute. So you know Trump it was. He retweeted

556
00:33:53,840 --> 00:33:55,680
Speaker 1: what Trump said about mull Arm. You know, he said

557
00:33:55,800 --> 00:33:57,800
Speaker 1: he was basically good riddance. You know, he's glad to

558
00:33:57,800 --> 00:33:59,720
Speaker 1: see you know that he can't hurt people anymore, or

559
00:33:59,760 --> 00:34:03,640
Speaker 1: something that, and it's brit human notes he goes, this

560
00:34:03,720 --> 00:34:06,160
Speaker 1: is the kind of stuff Trump does that makes people

561
00:34:06,240 --> 00:34:08,919
Speaker 1: not just oppose him but hate him. There's no need

562
00:34:08,920 --> 00:34:09,720
Speaker 1: to say anything.

563
00:34:10,560 --> 00:34:10,719
Speaker 2: Right.

564
00:34:10,760 --> 00:34:12,880
Speaker 1: Meanwhile, you have like George W. Bush and Barack Obama

565
00:34:13,200 --> 00:34:15,680
Speaker 1: talking about Robert Muller's one of the finest public servants

566
00:34:16,160 --> 00:34:23,239
Speaker 1: this country's ever had. And that's the question that we

567
00:34:23,280 --> 00:34:27,160
Speaker 1: all should be asking ourselves. All of us have people

568
00:34:27,160 --> 00:34:30,000
Speaker 1: that we have a rational hate about. If you're a

569
00:34:30,120 --> 00:34:34,080
Speaker 1: human being, you have somebody in your life somewhere, at

570
00:34:34,120 --> 00:34:39,120
Speaker 1: some point that you're irrationally angry at. You know, you

571
00:34:39,200 --> 00:34:42,160
Speaker 1: might even say I'd piss on their grave, right, you know,

572
00:34:42,239 --> 00:34:49,359
Speaker 1: something like that. But I'm going to guess ninety nine

573
00:34:49,400 --> 00:34:57,440
Speaker 1: percent of you would know when to shut up, we

574
00:34:57,760 --> 00:35:01,799
Speaker 1: know when to use some grace. His inability to ever

575
00:35:01,840 --> 00:35:10,280
Speaker 1: have grace at any moment in time is what happened

576
00:35:10,280 --> 00:35:12,239
Speaker 1: to him in his life that he feels this way.

577
00:35:13,320 --> 00:35:15,560
Speaker 1: Like I said, the easy way to sort of deal

578
00:35:15,640 --> 00:35:20,120
Speaker 1: with this here is to say, you know, and you

579
00:35:20,160 --> 00:35:23,200
Speaker 1: know all these things are true. Right. It undermines his credibility,

580
00:35:23,239 --> 00:35:26,880
Speaker 1: it undermines his leadership. It's half the country doesn't feel

581
00:35:26,880 --> 00:35:30,439
Speaker 1: like like like Brihume said, it's not just worth opposing him.

582
00:35:31,280 --> 00:35:33,319
Speaker 1: And so then when you hate somebody, you're never going

583
00:35:33,360 --> 00:35:40,480
Speaker 1: to give him credit for anything because somebody with such

584
00:35:40,680 --> 00:35:44,400
Speaker 1: terrible character like this. And this is why I am

585
00:35:44,440 --> 00:35:46,880
Speaker 1: a huge I vote on character. I only vote on

586
00:35:47,000 --> 00:35:52,080
Speaker 1: character because ultimately character counts more than a political position,

587
00:35:52,120 --> 00:35:54,239
Speaker 1: because character matters, at the end of the day, more

588
00:35:54,239 --> 00:35:57,200
Speaker 1: than anything else. If you have bad character, you're willing

589
00:35:57,239 --> 00:36:01,239
Speaker 1: to change your position for unprincipled reason. So give me

590
00:36:01,520 --> 00:36:04,400
Speaker 1: character any day of the week over I'll take somebody

591
00:36:04,440 --> 00:36:07,560
Speaker 1: who I disagree with with ninety nine percent of the time,

592
00:36:08,280 --> 00:36:11,240
Speaker 1: who I know has higher character than the person I agree.

593
00:36:11,040 --> 00:36:13,400
Speaker 3: With, say sixty percent of the seventy percent of the time.

594
00:36:14,600 --> 00:36:19,120
Speaker 1: A low character person will eventually tear you down with them.

595
00:36:20,239 --> 00:36:25,719
Speaker 1: And when you hand low character people your credibility, they

596
00:36:25,920 --> 00:36:31,560
Speaker 1: will piss it away. So I do. I vote very

597
00:36:31,640 --> 00:36:36,680
Speaker 1: much on character. And it's moments like this that are

598
00:36:36,680 --> 00:36:40,879
Speaker 1: a reminder that character matters here when our president can't ever,

599
00:36:41,400 --> 00:36:45,400
Speaker 1: when this president can't ever rise above any sort of personal, partisan,

600
00:36:45,440 --> 00:36:50,279
Speaker 1: personal grievance. You know, and it goes back to the

601
00:36:50,320 --> 00:36:52,800
Speaker 1: investigation itself. You know, the great failure of the Mueller

602
00:36:52,920 --> 00:36:58,640
Speaker 1: investigation is the fact that we did nothing about the

603
00:36:59,120 --> 00:37:03,839
Speaker 1: crime that did have in plain sight. The Russians interfered

604
00:37:03,880 --> 00:37:09,600
Speaker 1: with our presidential election. The Russians attempted to influence our elections.

605
00:37:09,680 --> 00:37:13,960
Speaker 1: A foreign, hostile, foreign actor did this. Those facts are

606
00:37:14,000 --> 00:37:18,280
Speaker 1: not in dispute, right well. The Mula report was about

607
00:37:18,320 --> 00:37:21,759
Speaker 1: was whether the Trump campaign actively worked with the Russians

608
00:37:21,800 --> 00:37:25,880
Speaker 1: to do this or simply was happy to be the beneficiary.

609
00:37:28,120 --> 00:37:30,319
Speaker 1: I happened to think just simply being happy to being

610
00:37:30,360 --> 00:37:33,640
Speaker 1: the beneficiary was a pretty unpatriotic thing to do, right.

611
00:37:34,000 --> 00:37:35,719
Speaker 1: I'm old enough to remember when a guy like Marco

612
00:37:35,800 --> 00:37:39,520
Speaker 1: Rubio said, no, no, no, I'm not quoting WikiLeaks because

613
00:37:39,560 --> 00:37:42,680
Speaker 1: I know that's a Russian intelligence operation. I'm old enough

614
00:37:42,760 --> 00:37:46,120
Speaker 1: to remember when a John McCain and Barack Obama, who

615
00:37:46,160 --> 00:37:49,200
Speaker 1: both had their campaigns hacked, went to the FBI before

616
00:37:49,200 --> 00:37:51,879
Speaker 1: making a public and somehow trying to turn it into

617
00:37:51,920 --> 00:37:58,560
Speaker 1: a partisan wig issue. And I guess if we want

618
00:37:58,600 --> 00:38:02,399
Speaker 1: to look back, but the the fact of the matter

619
00:38:02,480 --> 00:38:08,239
Speaker 1: is the Mueller Report absolutely confirmed the suspicions that at

620
00:38:08,280 --> 00:38:11,640
Speaker 1: the highest levels of the Russian government they were trying

621
00:38:11,680 --> 00:38:14,040
Speaker 1: to do everything it took to elect Donald Trump president.

622
00:38:15,239 --> 00:38:17,680
Speaker 1: Whether that meant Donald Trump committed a crime or not,

623
00:38:18,560 --> 00:38:22,000
Speaker 1: that evidence was harder to prove. There was a lot

624
00:38:22,000 --> 00:38:27,560
Speaker 1: of circumstantial evidence and if being if benefiting from the

625
00:38:27,640 --> 00:38:30,680
Speaker 1: hack was a crime, then they committed a lot of them.

626
00:38:32,000 --> 00:38:35,440
Speaker 1: You know, I've always thought there is one one culprit

627
00:38:35,520 --> 00:38:39,560
Speaker 1: we've never found in the twenty sixteen elections, and that

628
00:38:39,680 --> 00:38:47,040
Speaker 1: is who curated the emails for Julian asanj and WikiLeaks

629
00:38:47,520 --> 00:38:51,600
Speaker 1: because they were not released randomly like the Epstein files.

630
00:38:51,600 --> 00:38:54,160
Speaker 1: And now we know the situation. If you recall, Wiki

631
00:38:54,280 --> 00:38:58,680
Speaker 1: leaks was well collated, right, was well curated, It was

632
00:38:58,920 --> 00:39:02,080
Speaker 1: very well timed. There was an American who did this.

633
00:39:02,600 --> 00:39:05,520
Speaker 1: The Russians were not good at sort of like you know,

634
00:39:05,800 --> 00:39:08,919
Speaker 1: over time, right, we ended up discovering that they weren't

635
00:39:08,920 --> 00:39:10,880
Speaker 1: good with our language, and so some of the ads

636
00:39:10,880 --> 00:39:14,160
Speaker 1: that they bought were easily seen as attempts to be

637
00:39:14,280 --> 00:39:17,560
Speaker 1: it was outsiders attempting to influenced. But over time they

638
00:39:17,640 --> 00:39:22,239
Speaker 1: learned to, you know, start to use third parties, and

639
00:39:22,360 --> 00:39:26,680
Speaker 1: Julian Assange was a was an easy target, and so

640
00:39:27,440 --> 00:39:31,560
Speaker 1: he was the third party. They stole all these emails

641
00:39:31,560 --> 00:39:37,720
Speaker 1: from using a phishing scam on John Podesta, pretty simple one.

642
00:39:38,280 --> 00:39:42,160
Speaker 1: But the emails were curated and that's always you know,

643
00:39:42,239 --> 00:39:45,600
Speaker 1: and they were curated really smartly, like somebody that understood

644
00:39:45,640 --> 00:39:49,839
Speaker 1: the Washington media ecosystem, not just the American political ecosystem.

645
00:39:50,280 --> 00:39:55,080
Speaker 1: So this was definitely an American consultant, an American, a

646
00:39:55,200 --> 00:40:04,080
Speaker 1: knowledgeable American political human being of some sort. Because if

647
00:40:04,080 --> 00:40:08,759
Speaker 1: you they were always very well timed, very specific, you know,

648
00:40:09,080 --> 00:40:10,719
Speaker 1: it was all about and they and it had a

649
00:40:10,760 --> 00:40:14,640
Speaker 1: strategic you know, the the you know, it's not like

650
00:40:14,719 --> 00:40:16,920
Speaker 1: they were just randomly released. You know, we got the

651
00:40:16,920 --> 00:40:21,120
Speaker 1: Bernie the Bernie Hillary controversial emails right when the start

652
00:40:21,120 --> 00:40:24,840
Speaker 1: of the DNC convention, right, and you have these systemic

653
00:40:25,600 --> 00:40:30,480
Speaker 1: ways of trying to cherry pick an email from a

654
00:40:30,560 --> 00:40:35,759
Speaker 1: reporter to try to discredit a media outlet. Right, it was,

655
00:40:36,160 --> 00:40:40,560
Speaker 1: so the whole thing was very well orchestrated. And you know,

656
00:40:40,640 --> 00:40:44,200
Speaker 1: I've always been a little bit surprised that very little

657
00:40:44,280 --> 00:40:46,759
Speaker 1: law enforcement had been focused on that. And perhaps if

658
00:40:46,840 --> 00:40:51,480
Speaker 1: Julian A. Sansa had ever talked, had ever been been

659
00:40:51,480 --> 00:40:55,040
Speaker 1: in the US system, we might have learned more from him.

660
00:40:57,080 --> 00:40:59,480
Speaker 1: But in some ways they were. The focus was so

661
00:40:59,560 --> 00:41:01,480
Speaker 1: much on and this is what Trump did. You know,

662
00:41:01,560 --> 00:41:04,080
Speaker 1: Trump said, hey, look, no collusion, no collusion. Well, collusion,

663
00:41:04,080 --> 00:41:05,799
Speaker 1: to me was not the crime that was committed in

664
00:41:05,800 --> 00:41:08,760
Speaker 1: twenty sixteen. The crime that was committed was our hostile

665
00:41:08,800 --> 00:41:11,560
Speaker 1: foreign actor hacked our elections and had and successfully pulled

666
00:41:11,560 --> 00:41:16,480
Speaker 1: it off. Okay, that's it. And Donald Trump was just

667
00:41:16,480 --> 00:41:21,120
Speaker 1: the first campaign that didn't put the country before himself, right,

668
00:41:21,640 --> 00:41:24,040
Speaker 1: And so that's may not be illegal, but that's pretty

669
00:41:24,120 --> 00:41:28,000
Speaker 1: unethical and arguably against the national interests in the United States.

670
00:41:28,080 --> 00:41:33,400
Speaker 1: And what's really sad is what happened to one time, truly,

671
00:41:33,520 --> 00:41:36,400
Speaker 1: you know, one time, you know American patriots like Lindsey

672
00:41:36,440 --> 00:41:38,960
Speaker 1: Graham and Marco Rubio who cared a lot about what

673
00:41:38,960 --> 00:41:41,160
Speaker 1: the Russians were doing and all of these hacks and

674
00:41:41,239 --> 00:41:45,960
Speaker 1: knew full well what the Russians were up to. Now,

675
00:41:46,000 --> 00:41:48,279
Speaker 1: there's no doubt there was zeal on the left, and

676
00:41:48,320 --> 00:41:51,280
Speaker 1: I think that that, you know, Muller's reputation got harmed

677
00:41:51,480 --> 00:41:55,080
Speaker 1: as much by the over promising of the left about

678
00:41:55,400 --> 00:41:57,400
Speaker 1: what Muller was going to find, as much as what

679
00:41:57,480 --> 00:42:04,120
Speaker 1: Donald Trump's character assassination tweets did to him as well.

680
00:42:05,320 --> 00:42:09,239
Speaker 1: But the biggest failure of the Mueller investigation is the

681
00:42:09,360 --> 00:42:13,280
Speaker 1: lack of follow up and the lack of essentially public

682
00:42:13,480 --> 00:42:18,480
Speaker 1: conviction of the Russians for twenty sixteen. And you know,

683
00:42:18,560 --> 00:42:22,600
Speaker 1: I get it right, Donald Trump didn't want his presidency

684
00:42:22,680 --> 00:42:27,319
Speaker 1: delegitimized by admitting to that aspect of things. So there

685
00:42:27,360 --> 00:42:31,760
Speaker 1: was an entire effort made that you cannot even even

686
00:42:32,080 --> 00:42:36,960
Speaker 1: copping to the Russians hacked was a was going to

687
00:42:37,040 --> 00:42:44,240
Speaker 1: delegitimize his presidency, and that was something that they wanted

688
00:42:44,280 --> 00:42:47,640
Speaker 1: to fight very very hard, and over time, more Republicans

689
00:42:47,840 --> 00:42:55,759
Speaker 1: put the party over the country as this thing dragged on. Look,

690
00:42:55,800 --> 00:42:58,680
Speaker 1: I think I think the Mueller you know, I think,

691
00:42:58,800 --> 00:43:01,440
Speaker 1: you know, like with everything, you know, Muller tried to

692
00:43:01,480 --> 00:43:03,880
Speaker 1: play by a set of rules that Donald Trump was

693
00:43:03,880 --> 00:43:05,640
Speaker 1: never going to play by, and he got played by him.

694
00:43:07,000 --> 00:43:10,000
Speaker 1: They dragged it out, and the longer they dragged it out,

695
00:43:10,040 --> 00:43:13,400
Speaker 1: the easier it was, and the more sort of tactical

696
00:43:13,719 --> 00:43:19,800
Speaker 1: Muller was. I think again, the north star got lost,

697
00:43:19,920 --> 00:43:22,319
Speaker 1: and that's ultimately what happened. The north star of this

698
00:43:22,400 --> 00:43:25,920
Speaker 1: investigation got lost. What was not in dispute was what

699
00:43:25,960 --> 00:43:29,279
Speaker 1: the Russians did. What was in dispute and was not

700
00:43:29,320 --> 00:43:33,560
Speaker 1: in dispute is that there were Americans that helped. And perhaps,

701
00:43:33,680 --> 00:43:36,880
Speaker 1: you know, look, in some ways, Trump's behavior ended up

702
00:43:36,880 --> 00:43:40,120
Speaker 1: being a distraction, right the firing of Komi. He was

703
00:43:40,920 --> 00:43:43,360
Speaker 1: everything he did there he may have been doing simply

704
00:43:43,440 --> 00:43:45,759
Speaker 1: because he wanted to clear the decks of the investigation.

705
00:43:49,160 --> 00:43:55,520
Speaker 1: You know, if I'm I'm open to any angle being true,

706
00:43:55,680 --> 00:43:57,440
Speaker 1: but you're gonna have to have evidence in the other

707
00:43:57,480 --> 00:43:59,759
Speaker 1: angle on this one when it comes to you know,

708
00:44:00,080 --> 00:44:03,800
Speaker 1: Trump collusion. But the fact is there's been there hasn't

709
00:44:03,840 --> 00:44:05,960
Speaker 1: been strong enough evidence on that. What there is strong

710
00:44:06,000 --> 00:44:09,320
Speaker 1: evidence on this. The Russians did this. They were hoping

711
00:44:09,360 --> 00:44:14,000
Speaker 1: Trump would benefit. There were people within Trump's orbit who

712
00:44:14,080 --> 00:44:15,960
Speaker 1: knew what the Russians were up to and wanted to

713
00:44:16,000 --> 00:44:18,880
Speaker 1: find ways to exploit it to their benefit. The question

714
00:44:19,000 --> 00:44:22,200
Speaker 1: was whether any of that rose to criminal activity. But

715
00:44:22,239 --> 00:44:25,400
Speaker 1: it was certainly an American and it was certainly against

716
00:44:25,480 --> 00:44:31,560
Speaker 1: America's national interests. And that is where, in particular, in

717
00:44:31,560 --> 00:44:34,120
Speaker 1: some ways, both parties let us down on this right.

718
00:44:34,160 --> 00:44:38,160
Speaker 1: The Democrats so obsessed with getting Trump that they took

719
00:44:38,200 --> 00:44:40,640
Speaker 1: the eye off the larger picture here, the thing that

720
00:44:40,760 --> 00:44:44,400
Speaker 1: everybody should have had seventy eighty percent sort of agreement on.

721
00:44:45,000 --> 00:44:47,279
Speaker 1: And then of course the Republican Party not, you know,

722
00:44:47,360 --> 00:44:50,000
Speaker 1: basically turning a blind eye to what the Russians did

723
00:44:50,239 --> 00:44:52,040
Speaker 1: because fearing that if they didn't it.

724
00:44:52,000 --> 00:44:52,919
Speaker 3: Was somehow going to help.

725
00:44:53,320 --> 00:44:57,960
Speaker 1: So Look, the fact of the matter is Bob Muller

726
00:44:58,080 --> 00:45:01,600
Speaker 1: was a terrific FBI direct brought a lot of credibility

727
00:45:01,640 --> 00:45:06,160
Speaker 1: to the FBI, lived a life of public service, served

728
00:45:06,200 --> 00:45:10,040
Speaker 1: this country in uniform. Could have done better on the

729
00:45:10,080 --> 00:45:15,440
Speaker 1: Mlor investigation, There's no doubt about it. But he did

730
00:45:15,480 --> 00:45:18,960
Speaker 1: not deserve the disgusting, horrible treatment by our sitting in

731
00:45:18,960 --> 00:45:21,600
Speaker 1: president of the United States. And I would just ask all

732
00:45:21,640 --> 00:45:22,280
Speaker 1: of you to ask.

733
00:45:22,120 --> 00:45:23,720
Speaker 3: Yourself, how did.

734
00:45:25,880 --> 00:45:30,399
Speaker 1: What is wrong with him? Right. Imagine not being able

735
00:45:30,440 --> 00:45:35,600
Speaker 1: to show grace to somebody who dies after complications of Parkinson's,

736
00:45:36,840 --> 00:45:40,399
Speaker 1: the lack of grace, his inability. This is not who

737
00:45:40,400 --> 00:45:45,880
Speaker 1: we are, As John Jack Danforth said on my podcast,

738
00:45:46,040 --> 00:45:47,000
Speaker 1: aren't we better than this.

739
00:45:50,000 --> 00:45:50,280
Speaker 3: Hate?

740
00:45:50,400 --> 00:45:55,279
Speaker 1: Fellow Republicans out there, are you comfortable with how he

741
00:45:55,360 --> 00:46:00,720
Speaker 1: has just totally destroyed the image of the Republican Party

742
00:46:00,840 --> 00:46:04,680
Speaker 1: that people assume that this is now callous. You be callous,

743
00:46:05,520 --> 00:46:10,520
Speaker 1: You root for the death of people you politically disagree with.

744
00:46:12,480 --> 00:46:14,399
Speaker 1: I'm old enough to remember when folks on the right

745
00:46:14,480 --> 00:46:19,320
Speaker 1: were angry, when folks on the left weren't properly mourning.

746
00:46:19,400 --> 00:46:24,720
Speaker 1: Charlie kirk As, the first Lady of the United States,

747
00:46:24,760 --> 00:46:30,040
Speaker 1: likes to say, mister President one should be better. But

748
00:46:30,080 --> 00:46:35,319
Speaker 1: more importantly, maybe he's incapable of being better. But I'm

749
00:46:35,320 --> 00:46:36,880
Speaker 1: old enough to remember when they were members of the

750
00:46:36,880 --> 00:46:41,879
Speaker 1: Republican Party who knew how to be better. And I know, yeah,

751
00:46:41,880 --> 00:46:46,919
Speaker 1: I'll just ignore. It's just trumpy and Trump. No, he's

752
00:46:46,960 --> 00:46:50,680
Speaker 1: taking you down with them, all right, We're sneaking a

753
00:46:50,680 --> 00:46:53,680
Speaker 1: break when we come back. My conversation with Suzan can

754
00:46:53,760 --> 00:46:57,279
Speaker 1: poor all things aroun what's going on with the diaspora

755
00:46:57,920 --> 00:47:01,360
Speaker 1: at the point of view from the Iranian on the

756
00:47:01,360 --> 00:47:07,960
Speaker 1: ground who simply wants free them. This episode of the

757
00:47:08,040 --> 00:47:10,719
Speaker 1: Chuck Podcast is brought to you by Soul. So if

758
00:47:10,760 --> 00:47:12,919
Speaker 1: you love that end of the day unwined, but hate

759
00:47:12,960 --> 00:47:16,839
Speaker 1: the hangover, Soul's out of Office is for you. These

760
00:47:16,840 --> 00:47:20,200
Speaker 1: sparkling THCHC drinks and gummies give you the same relaxed

761
00:47:20,200 --> 00:47:24,560
Speaker 1: social feeling without the alcohol, without the calories, and without

762
00:47:24,560 --> 00:47:27,560
Speaker 1: the crash. Soul is a wellness brand that believes feeling

763
00:47:27,600 --> 00:47:31,239
Speaker 1: good should be fun and easy. Soul specializes in delicious

764
00:47:31,520 --> 00:47:35,400
Speaker 1: hemp derived THCHC and CBD products designed to boost your

765
00:47:35,440 --> 00:47:38,680
Speaker 1: mood and help you unwind. Their best selling out of

766
00:47:38,680 --> 00:47:42,120
Speaker 1: Office Gummies were designed to provide a mild, relaxing buzz,

767
00:47:42,200 --> 00:47:45,640
Speaker 1: boost your mood, and enhance creativity and relaxation. With five

768
00:47:45,760 --> 00:47:48,920
Speaker 1: different strengths, you can tailor the dose to fit your vibe.

769
00:47:49,280 --> 00:47:52,319
Speaker 1: So also has a variety of products specifically designed to

770
00:47:52,320 --> 00:47:54,560
Speaker 1: help you get a better night's rest, including their top

771
00:47:54,640 --> 00:47:59,479
Speaker 1: selling Sleepy Gummies, a fan favorite for deep, restorous sleep. Look.

772
00:47:59,560 --> 00:48:02,239
Speaker 1: I have made no secret, I am a believer in

773
00:48:02,280 --> 00:48:04,960
Speaker 1: this stuff, in cannabis and hemp derived I do not

774
00:48:05,440 --> 00:48:07,880
Speaker 1: partake in alcohol. For the most part. I think this

775
00:48:07,880 --> 00:48:10,200
Speaker 1: stuff is a lot safer than alcohol, a lot less

776
00:48:10,200 --> 00:48:13,120
Speaker 1: addictive than alcohol. And yes, I have to say I

777
00:48:13,160 --> 00:48:15,920
Speaker 1: love these drinks. It is the glass of wine and

778
00:48:15,960 --> 00:48:19,360
Speaker 1: you know, after work, that's what this is. So no

779
00:48:19,480 --> 00:48:23,640
Speaker 1: hangover and no excess calories like this. I'm a big fan.

780
00:48:24,120 --> 00:48:26,360
Speaker 1: So bring on the good vibes and treat yourself to

781
00:48:26,400 --> 00:48:29,400
Speaker 1: sold today. Right now, Soul is offering my audience thirty

782
00:48:29,400 --> 00:48:32,200
Speaker 1: percent off your entire order. Go to getsoul dot com

783
00:48:32,200 --> 00:48:35,680
Speaker 1: and use the word podcast. That's getsol dot com promo

784
00:48:35,719 --> 00:48:38,080
Speaker 1: code podcast for thirty percent off.

785
00:48:38,120 --> 00:48:40,440
Speaker 3: And yes, I too, am a customer.

786
00:48:44,320 --> 00:48:47,400
Speaker 1: Joining me now is Suzan kan Poor. She is a

787
00:48:47,520 --> 00:48:52,480
Speaker 1: veteran journalist co host of a podcast on global affairs.

788
00:48:52,600 --> 00:48:57,480
Speaker 1: She's worked at NBC. Although we are paths only briefly,

789
00:48:57,520 --> 00:49:01,440
Speaker 1: I think crossed back in her days in NBC. She's

790
00:49:02,200 --> 00:49:04,560
Speaker 1: been around the world. I just recently spent a lot

791
00:49:04,600 --> 00:49:07,160
Speaker 1: of time with her, and I think this context matters.

792
00:49:07,560 --> 00:49:09,640
Speaker 1: In December, at a media conference, and I think I

793
00:49:09,719 --> 00:49:13,040
Speaker 1: had told told you guys, some of you that may remember,

794
00:49:13,040 --> 00:49:16,360
Speaker 1: it was an Abu Dhabi for a large media conference,

795
00:49:16,400 --> 00:49:21,520
Speaker 1: really very industry focused as much of tactical parts of

796
00:49:21,560 --> 00:49:24,879
Speaker 1: the of the media world as much as content parts

797
00:49:24,880 --> 00:49:27,160
Speaker 1: of the media world. For instance, there was a big

798
00:49:27,280 --> 00:49:33,440
Speaker 1: gamer section to this to this conference. But I had

799
00:49:33,480 --> 00:49:35,960
Speaker 1: the pleasure of being of having dinner with Susan and

800
00:49:36,000 --> 00:49:38,560
Speaker 1: her husband and a bunch of other journalists and we

801
00:49:38,600 --> 00:49:42,399
Speaker 1: had a fascinating conversation about Iran and about And this

802
00:49:42,520 --> 00:49:45,920
Speaker 1: was in December. Abu Dhabi's got a big diaspora of

803
00:49:46,239 --> 00:49:51,800
Speaker 1: Avaranians and it was and you know, I had basically

804
00:49:51,880 --> 00:49:54,040
Speaker 1: was peppering Susan with all these questions. So I hear this,

805
00:49:54,120 --> 00:49:56,040
Speaker 1: and I hear this, and it was like, boy, is

806
00:49:56,040 --> 00:49:58,279
Speaker 1: this regime gonna fall? I mean, how bad is things

807
00:49:58,320 --> 00:50:01,040
Speaker 1: in Tehran? And there was this feeling it could be

808
00:50:01,040 --> 00:50:03,359
Speaker 1: five months, but it may still be five years. All

809
00:50:03,360 --> 00:50:06,239
Speaker 1: of this before any thought that we were going to

810
00:50:06,280 --> 00:50:10,400
Speaker 1: see what we're seeing in the moment now, And so

811
00:50:10,480 --> 00:50:12,120
Speaker 1: I couldn't think of a better time to try to

812
00:50:12,160 --> 00:50:14,759
Speaker 1: catch up with Susan than right now. Suzan, welcome to

813
00:50:14,800 --> 00:50:15,320
Speaker 1: the Toodcast.

814
00:50:16,160 --> 00:50:18,160
Speaker 2: Thank you, thanks for having me. Todd. I mean, it

815
00:50:18,280 --> 00:50:20,160
Speaker 2: kind of feels like yesterday.

816
00:50:19,680 --> 00:50:23,040
Speaker 1: But well it does. We just sort of connect and

817
00:50:23,080 --> 00:50:27,759
Speaker 1: somebody's connected and we've been staying in touch since. And yet,

818
00:50:27,960 --> 00:50:30,160
Speaker 1: my god, that was like a whole lifetime ago too,

819
00:50:30,280 --> 00:50:34,960
Speaker 1: and it's only been literally, I think, four months. So

820
00:50:35,000 --> 00:50:36,240
Speaker 1: that's we met Dobby.

821
00:50:36,880 --> 00:50:40,760
Speaker 2: That was December eighth, that day, So as my wedding,

822
00:50:40,800 --> 00:50:43,799
Speaker 2: my first wedding anniversaries are dragged my husband too.

823
00:50:44,040 --> 00:50:44,919
Speaker 1: Yes, she did well.

824
00:50:44,920 --> 00:50:47,920
Speaker 2: He was at a conference. You know, when my company

825
00:50:48,320 --> 00:50:51,640
Speaker 2: values IPOs at a billion dollars somewhere down the line,

826
00:50:51,680 --> 00:50:53,080
Speaker 2: it'll be a good story to tell her.

827
00:50:53,239 --> 00:50:55,479
Speaker 1: That's right. You know, our first anniversary, we were able

828
00:50:55,480 --> 00:50:57,000
Speaker 1: to you know, kada YadA, YadA, right.

829
00:50:57,000 --> 00:51:00,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. But a couple of weeks after that was

830
00:51:00,640 --> 00:51:05,040
Speaker 2: when everything really kicked off over the holidays, and there

831
00:51:05,200 --> 00:51:08,759
Speaker 2: wasn't a whole lot of media coverage on the protests

832
00:51:09,200 --> 00:51:15,200
Speaker 2: that happened in Iran because of the currency tanked. So

833
00:51:15,239 --> 00:51:17,200
Speaker 2: the currency tanked and people just it was like that

834
00:51:17,360 --> 00:51:19,640
Speaker 2: was what made them snap, that was what made people snap.

835
00:51:19,719 --> 00:51:21,759
Speaker 2: The poort into the streets. It'said, you know what this

836
00:51:21,880 --> 00:51:26,280
Speaker 2: government's got to go down with. You can't even govern, correct,

837
00:51:26,280 --> 00:51:27,920
Speaker 2: You can't even keep the lights on and can't keep

838
00:51:27,920 --> 00:51:30,000
Speaker 2: the water going. And this is the oil rich country.

839
00:51:30,040 --> 00:51:32,320
Speaker 2: And so that's why when we see things and I'm

840
00:51:32,400 --> 00:51:34,280
Speaker 2: sure we'll get into all this, that's why we see

841
00:51:34,480 --> 00:51:39,520
Speaker 2: reports about these leaders their real estate portfolios in Europe

842
00:51:39,560 --> 00:51:42,799
Speaker 2: and London on billionaire's row being exposed. That's why it

843
00:51:42,960 --> 00:51:43,920
Speaker 2: just hurts.

844
00:51:43,680 --> 00:51:47,000
Speaker 1: That much more, right, because this is so personal and

845
00:51:47,040 --> 00:51:50,080
Speaker 1: visceral and just sort of basics and survival for folks

846
00:51:50,080 --> 00:51:53,520
Speaker 1: that actually live in Iran at the moment, Before we

847
00:51:53,560 --> 00:51:56,279
Speaker 1: get into all the current events, you tell me your

848
00:51:56,360 --> 00:52:00,239
Speaker 1: story of how you ended up in journalism, your your

849
00:52:00,239 --> 00:52:01,560
Speaker 1: family history in Persian.

850
00:52:03,120 --> 00:52:07,759
Speaker 2: So I am literally a child of this conflict. My

851
00:52:08,200 --> 00:52:12,840
Speaker 2: mother and father met in Alabama during the Iran hostage

852
00:52:12,880 --> 00:52:17,160
Speaker 2: crisis as students, and at the time, you know, on

853
00:52:17,200 --> 00:52:22,960
Speaker 2: the evening newscast, there were images of American diplomats blindfolded

854
00:52:23,160 --> 00:52:27,680
Speaker 2: and these insurgents holding Americans hostage. And so that was

855
00:52:27,719 --> 00:52:31,839
Speaker 2: the image of Iranians at the time. And so when

856
00:52:31,880 --> 00:52:34,399
Speaker 2: my father went to go and propose to my mother,

857
00:52:35,000 --> 00:52:39,120
Speaker 2: my grandfather Sicilian American came to the US on Ellis

858
00:52:39,120 --> 00:52:43,000
Speaker 2: Island chased him off the lawn with a firearm. Because

859
00:52:45,120 --> 00:52:48,480
Speaker 2: Iranians were kind of seen as terrorists in many parts

860
00:52:48,480 --> 00:52:52,279
Speaker 2: of the country, particularly at Alabama, and so, you know,

861
00:52:52,440 --> 00:52:56,280
Speaker 2: years later when I was born, the Iran Iraq conflict

862
00:52:56,520 --> 00:53:00,400
Speaker 2: was a war was raging, and I ultimately ended up

863
00:53:00,480 --> 00:53:03,480
Speaker 2: raised by my Persian aunt, my dad's sister, and she

864
00:53:03,640 --> 00:53:06,000
Speaker 2: taught me Farsi. But she was a war refugee, so

865
00:53:06,040 --> 00:53:07,840
Speaker 2: she has a you know, she managed to make it

866
00:53:07,840 --> 00:53:12,360
Speaker 2: to America through a pretty harrowing experience as a refugee

867
00:53:12,360 --> 00:53:15,600
Speaker 2: through Europe to be able to make it here, you know.

868
00:53:15,719 --> 00:53:19,480
Speaker 2: And then my first my first kind of memories of

869
00:53:19,600 --> 00:53:23,360
Speaker 2: watching TV news was Desert Store. I grew up in Atlanta,

870
00:53:23,920 --> 00:53:27,600
Speaker 2: and I grew up around lots of newspapers in the house,

871
00:53:27,640 --> 00:53:32,440
Speaker 2: the Atlanta Journal Constitution. I remember reading about Kosovo in

872
00:53:32,520 --> 00:53:35,000
Speaker 2: Time magazine for kids, and so I was always, for

873
00:53:35,040 --> 00:53:41,280
Speaker 2: some reason, probably sort of epigetically drawn to conflict resolution,

874
00:53:41,560 --> 00:53:44,319
Speaker 2: because I have literally made up of a conflict and

875
00:53:44,360 --> 00:53:46,759
Speaker 2: it took years for you to really even kind of

876
00:53:46,800 --> 00:53:48,160
Speaker 2: recognize that thread.

877
00:53:49,120 --> 00:53:51,439
Speaker 1: And so then do you find yourself being a big

878
00:53:51,480 --> 00:53:54,120
Speaker 1: media do you feel like you're always a mediator? I mean,

879
00:53:54,440 --> 00:53:59,120
Speaker 1: I you know, you know, I I'm a child of

880
00:53:59,160 --> 00:54:02,600
Speaker 1: a mixed religious marriage, and for many of my father's

881
00:54:02,600 --> 00:54:04,279
Speaker 1: side of the family, my mother was the first Jew

882
00:54:04,320 --> 00:54:07,439
Speaker 1: many of them had ever met. Yeah, they weren't thrilled

883
00:54:07,440 --> 00:54:09,640
Speaker 1: about it, you know, they didn't. She wasn't being chased

884
00:54:09,640 --> 00:54:13,200
Speaker 1: off with a shotgun, So I'm not gunning too uh that.

885
00:54:13,760 --> 00:54:16,120
Speaker 1: But she was always reminded that she was Jewish every

886
00:54:16,120 --> 00:54:18,040
Speaker 1: time she went to that side of the family. They

887
00:54:18,160 --> 00:54:20,239
Speaker 1: was sort of like that's all they saw in her head,

888
00:54:20,360 --> 00:54:24,239
Speaker 1: you know, type of thing. And so I know what

889
00:54:24,280 --> 00:54:26,080
Speaker 1: it made me do. I'm always like, I just want

890
00:54:26,080 --> 00:54:29,160
Speaker 1: everybody get along. Yeah, I'm just curious, is that does that?

891
00:54:29,360 --> 00:54:31,760
Speaker 1: Does that feel like that be a description? You're always

892
00:54:31,800 --> 00:54:34,080
Speaker 1: just trying to like, hey, no, no, no, let's have some peace,

893
00:54:34,400 --> 00:54:34,640
Speaker 1: you know.

894
00:54:35,320 --> 00:54:37,040
Speaker 2: And I think in a lot of ways, sort of

895
00:54:37,120 --> 00:54:43,279
Speaker 2: being of a mixed background, you you can relate to

896
00:54:43,440 --> 00:54:47,399
Speaker 2: different people, and so you end up automatically being that

897
00:54:47,480 --> 00:54:49,840
Speaker 2: person and kind of being the convener and being the

898
00:54:49,880 --> 00:54:51,200
Speaker 2: diplomatic kind of a chamelion.

899
00:54:51,280 --> 00:54:53,680
Speaker 1: You can be a chameleon to people or a rorshack test,

900
00:54:53,680 --> 00:54:54,719
Speaker 1: whatever you want to call it.

901
00:54:55,320 --> 00:54:59,760
Speaker 2: Exactly I mean. So years later, after I left NBCi

902
00:55:00,120 --> 00:55:01,960
Speaker 2: was at the BBC for most of my career for

903
00:55:01,960 --> 00:55:05,680
Speaker 2: almost twelve years, and I was covering the state Department,

904
00:55:05,719 --> 00:55:07,640
Speaker 2: so I would travel with the Secretary of State and

905
00:55:07,760 --> 00:55:11,680
Speaker 2: the around nuclear negotiations sort was sort of my breakthrough story.

906
00:55:12,320 --> 00:55:16,040
Speaker 2: And I remember when the nuclear deal was reached, which

907
00:55:16,680 --> 00:55:20,360
Speaker 2: obviously it ended up being a controversial deal. Many people

908
00:55:20,400 --> 00:55:22,480
Speaker 2: weren't happy about it. A lot of the elements of

909
00:55:22,520 --> 00:55:26,560
Speaker 2: what people weren't happy about now is clear why. But

910
00:55:26,880 --> 00:55:30,560
Speaker 2: I did a story on the women of the Iron Deal,

911
00:55:31,360 --> 00:55:34,360
Speaker 2: which sort of ended up I didn't realize at the

912
00:55:34,400 --> 00:55:38,200
Speaker 2: time becoming now the company that I'm building and running.

913
00:55:38,719 --> 00:55:40,080
Speaker 2: But at the time I did a story about the

914
00:55:40,120 --> 00:55:42,800
Speaker 2: women of the Around Deal, and I interviewed Frederica Mugerini,

915
00:55:43,120 --> 00:55:48,880
Speaker 2: who was the Italian representative, and we were before we

916
00:55:48,880 --> 00:55:50,600
Speaker 2: were before we did the interview. We were chatting about

917
00:55:50,600 --> 00:55:53,319
Speaker 2: my background and she said, wow, you know, like you've

918
00:55:53,320 --> 00:55:56,160
Speaker 2: got the Italian, you've got the Iranian, you've got the American.

919
00:55:56,280 --> 00:55:59,120
Speaker 2: You were for the Brits, like you should have been

920
00:55:59,120 --> 00:56:00,600
Speaker 2: in their negotiating.

921
00:56:00,400 --> 00:56:04,279
Speaker 1: Right, you should have been part of the group, right, Yeah.

922
00:56:03,200 --> 00:56:05,920
Speaker 2: And it's true, you know, you kind of There's a

923
00:56:05,920 --> 00:56:11,080
Speaker 2: lot of cultural nuances in global affairs and diplosi and

924
00:56:11,280 --> 00:56:14,879
Speaker 2: current events, which is why sometimes I worry what I'm

925
00:56:14,920 --> 00:56:18,040
Speaker 2: looking at who is advising the Trump administration right now,

926
00:56:18,080 --> 00:56:21,560
Speaker 2: because I think how the Iranians think and operate is

927
00:56:22,840 --> 00:56:25,120
Speaker 2: they play the long game. I mean, it's an ancient

928
00:56:25,160 --> 00:56:26,640
Speaker 2: civilization and it show.

929
00:56:26,920 --> 00:56:30,200
Speaker 1: I mean, and you know the famous line from the Taliban,

930
00:56:30,239 --> 00:56:32,520
Speaker 1: you've got the watches, We've got the time. I think

931
00:56:32,560 --> 00:56:36,080
Speaker 1: there's a similar mindset perhaps with this regime, right.

932
00:56:36,680 --> 00:56:41,920
Speaker 2: Yes, And you know, they there's been so much criticism

933
00:56:42,160 --> 00:56:47,120
Speaker 2: of the media from the diaspora, the Iranian diaspora. People

934
00:56:47,120 --> 00:56:50,520
Speaker 2: are particularly upset at Fred for the CNN reporter who

935
00:56:50,640 --> 00:56:53,600
Speaker 2: red plate and CNN reporter who went in. Of course,

936
00:56:53,719 --> 00:56:58,080
Speaker 2: it's I believe it's very important to be on the ground. Well,

937
00:56:58,200 --> 00:57:00,359
Speaker 2: at some point you do kind of have to make

938
00:57:00,400 --> 00:57:02,799
Speaker 2: a call of whether you're going to keep doing it,

939
00:57:02,840 --> 00:57:04,880
Speaker 2: because whether you're going to keep sort of signing up

940
00:57:04,920 --> 00:57:05,520
Speaker 2: to the rules.

941
00:57:05,680 --> 00:57:09,400
Speaker 1: But look, it's a tough decision. Look as you know

942
00:57:09,520 --> 00:57:13,359
Speaker 1: Ali Russi, you know, who's a dual citizen, our former

943
00:57:13,360 --> 00:57:15,960
Speaker 1: colleague in NBC, the Tayran Bureauchi from you know, they

944
00:57:16,000 --> 00:57:17,840
Speaker 1: were all sorts of you know, I mean, his mother

945
00:57:17,920 --> 00:57:20,320
Speaker 1: lives in Tehran, you know, his mother, you know, and

946
00:57:20,360 --> 00:57:22,960
Speaker 1: there was always concern that the regime could threaten her

947
00:57:23,080 --> 00:57:26,160
Speaker 1: and whether we were always we had to be mindful,

948
00:57:26,360 --> 00:57:28,840
Speaker 1: you know when we put them on air, because everybody's

949
00:57:28,840 --> 00:57:29,320
Speaker 1: got a family.

950
00:57:30,400 --> 00:57:36,640
Speaker 2: But they, the Iranians, use the democratic tools that we have,

951
00:57:36,880 --> 00:57:40,240
Speaker 2: the freedoms that we have to their advantage. They're quite

952
00:57:40,240 --> 00:57:43,360
Speaker 2: clever in that regards. And you know, even though I

953
00:57:43,400 --> 00:57:46,959
Speaker 2: know better, you know, like I know better, when they're

954
00:57:47,040 --> 00:57:52,520
Speaker 2: so good at their craft that it's almost like they

955
00:57:52,640 --> 00:57:55,600
Speaker 2: put you under a spell and you have to count yourself.

956
00:57:57,320 --> 00:58:00,880
Speaker 2: And an Iranian will recognize that at an American will,

957
00:58:02,600 --> 00:58:05,880
Speaker 2: even no matter how experience you might be with them,

958
00:58:06,720 --> 00:58:08,600
Speaker 2: because it's psychological manipulation.

959
00:58:09,880 --> 00:58:14,760
Speaker 1: Let's talk about sort of this. I'm look, we're using

960
00:58:14,760 --> 00:58:18,120
Speaker 1: an artificial timeline here. When we first started, we were

961
00:58:18,120 --> 00:58:21,720
Speaker 1: having this conversation, and in fact, I think I even said,

962
00:58:21,760 --> 00:58:22,720
Speaker 1: I said, you know, I want to have you on

963
00:58:22,760 --> 00:58:25,200
Speaker 1: because I think people I think the underrated story of

964
00:58:25,240 --> 00:58:29,120
Speaker 1: twenty twenty six could be the downfall of this regime.

965
00:58:30,600 --> 00:58:33,200
Speaker 1: I look, there's a lot of things in the Bingo card.

966
00:58:33,640 --> 00:58:38,760
Speaker 1: The United States aggressively pursuing a preemptive strike against Irum

967
00:58:39,160 --> 00:58:41,680
Speaker 1: I just never foresaw, and I know that there's the

968
00:58:41,760 --> 00:58:46,560
Speaker 1: unpredictability of Trump. But there there's always been a reason

969
00:58:46,600 --> 00:58:50,680
Speaker 1: why previous American presidents have stopped Israel from doing this

970
00:58:50,760 --> 00:58:55,920
Speaker 1: and have not done this for because of how unmanageable

971
00:58:55,960 --> 00:59:00,360
Speaker 1: the potential fallout could be. But I think think what

972
00:59:00,600 --> 00:59:03,720
Speaker 1: we were discussing is, hey, you know, can this regime

973
00:59:03,840 --> 00:59:07,160
Speaker 1: hold If you can't even get hotable water, you know,

974
00:59:07,280 --> 00:59:10,680
Speaker 1: drinking water in Tehran? If you can't you don't have water,

975
00:59:11,480 --> 00:59:16,600
Speaker 1: how are they going to govern? And so then let's

976
00:59:16,640 --> 00:59:19,360
Speaker 1: go to the it's the revolution, the currency draft, we

977
00:59:19,440 --> 00:59:24,720
Speaker 1: have the protests, what happens, what's happening in country at

978
00:59:24,720 --> 00:59:27,800
Speaker 1: the time, What are you hearing at the time, and

979
00:59:27,840 --> 00:59:29,960
Speaker 1: what are you thinking at the time? Is this How

980
00:59:30,040 --> 00:59:33,320
Speaker 1: vulnerable did the regime seem? And was there a lot

981
00:59:33,360 --> 00:59:36,120
Speaker 1: of chatter, Hey, with a little bit of help maybe

982
00:59:36,200 --> 00:59:39,360
Speaker 1: from the United States or others, maybe this can happen.

983
00:59:41,200 --> 00:59:48,200
Speaker 2: So the June twelve Day war was a pivotal moment.

984
00:59:49,600 --> 00:59:53,920
Speaker 2: And even people who had worked for the regime who

985
00:59:54,000 --> 00:59:56,320
Speaker 2: had left and are now in the private sector and

986
00:59:56,680 --> 00:59:59,760
Speaker 2: that kind of had started to make them think differently

987
00:59:59,760 --> 01:00:04,040
Speaker 2: about the regime were messaging me and saying, why didn't

988
01:00:04,040 --> 01:00:10,720
Speaker 2: Trump finish the job, and so which I frankly was surprised. Naturally,

989
01:00:10,720 --> 01:00:12,760
Speaker 2: when you're being bombed, you're going through a whole range

990
01:00:12,800 --> 01:00:15,560
Speaker 2: of emotions, and most of those emotions are I hate

991
01:00:15,560 --> 01:00:19,880
Speaker 2: these people who are bombing me because obviously, and so

992
01:00:20,040 --> 01:00:23,160
Speaker 2: when when the bomb stopped, the kind of why didn't

993
01:00:23,200 --> 01:00:25,560
Speaker 2: he finish the job? Why isn't he finish the job

994
01:00:25,680 --> 01:00:32,720
Speaker 2: was really stuck with me. And that being said, now

995
01:00:33,320 --> 01:00:37,760
Speaker 2: that the scale of kind of destruction we're seeing has

996
01:00:37,840 --> 01:00:42,840
Speaker 2: really settled in, we keep hearing that, oh, you know,

997
01:00:43,040 --> 01:00:46,840
Speaker 2: if they just let it be, the regime would have

998
01:00:46,880 --> 01:00:48,000
Speaker 2: fallen on its own.

999
01:00:48,520 --> 01:00:49,640
Speaker 1: Do you believe that the problem?

1000
01:00:50,960 --> 01:00:57,000
Speaker 2: I don't, mainly because they are masters at holding on

1001
01:00:57,840 --> 01:01:01,680
Speaker 2: and will stop it not thing to hold on, and

1002
01:01:02,080 --> 01:01:05,640
Speaker 2: we are seeing that mm hmm in the fact that

1003
01:01:05,680 --> 01:01:10,520
Speaker 2: they are literally shooting themselves in the foot by bombarding Dubai.

1004
01:01:10,840 --> 01:01:13,520
Speaker 2: That's where all their money is. And so we were

1005
01:01:13,560 --> 01:01:17,320
Speaker 2: living in Dubai. We never thought not that, we never

1006
01:01:17,360 --> 01:01:20,000
Speaker 2: thought it was always a risk. I mean, you know, frankly,

1007
01:01:20,200 --> 01:01:24,920
Speaker 2: ultimately in the Middle East, like eventually it was going

1008
01:01:25,000 --> 01:01:25,440
Speaker 2: to blow up.

1009
01:01:30,560 --> 01:01:38,040
Speaker 4: And wait, sorry today, Lucy, no, we're here, okay, yeah,

1010
01:01:38,080 --> 01:01:41,240
Speaker 4: my photo rank oh right and interrupture.

1011
01:01:41,400 --> 01:01:44,320
Speaker 1: I know all of our devices have to be connected.

1012
01:01:44,360 --> 01:01:47,000
Speaker 1: You know that don't have to be connected Apple, Thank you.

1013
01:01:47,440 --> 01:01:54,560
Speaker 2: I know, so we let me just go back. No,

1014
01:01:55,120 --> 01:01:58,040
Speaker 2: I did not believe that they would be able to

1015
01:01:58,040 --> 01:02:01,160
Speaker 2: fall on their own because they've do anything to hang

1016
01:02:01,200 --> 01:02:05,440
Speaker 2: on to power, and we saw that in January, and

1017
01:02:05,480 --> 01:02:08,880
Speaker 2: we've seen that in other points in history before. You know,

1018
01:02:08,960 --> 01:02:11,720
Speaker 2: the massacre in January is not the first time. It's

1019
01:02:11,760 --> 01:02:16,320
Speaker 2: just we now live in an age where dictators can't hide.

1020
01:02:17,000 --> 01:02:22,080
Speaker 2: They can't hide. We watch everything very intimately on our

1021
01:02:22,120 --> 01:02:23,720
Speaker 2: phones on Instagram.

1022
01:02:24,200 --> 01:02:33,960
Speaker 1: Right, So, what's life right now? Like, what are you

1023
01:02:34,000 --> 01:02:37,479
Speaker 1: hearing right now? Are people just living, you know, just

1024
01:02:37,520 --> 01:02:40,600
Speaker 1: staying in shelter, staying in place. Are they trying to

1025
01:02:40,800 --> 01:02:43,800
Speaker 1: leave if you have means to do that, and if so,

1026
01:02:43,920 --> 01:02:46,480
Speaker 1: how are they leaving? Take me through some of the

1027
01:02:46,680 --> 01:02:47,880
Speaker 1: some of the stories you're hearing.

1028
01:02:48,920 --> 01:02:53,120
Speaker 2: I mean, to be frank, it's quite nerve wracking to

1029
01:02:53,280 --> 01:02:56,360
Speaker 2: have people trying to leave right now. I mean, I

1030
01:02:56,640 --> 01:03:00,600
Speaker 2: literally have a friend who I'm just ging up to

1031
01:03:00,640 --> 01:03:03,919
Speaker 2: see if they've crossed over. The people are crossing over

1032
01:03:04,120 --> 01:03:08,240
Speaker 2: the land borders when they can. But it's dangerous because

1033
01:03:09,600 --> 01:03:11,960
Speaker 2: not only is dangerous because of the bombs, but it's

1034
01:03:12,040 --> 01:03:17,000
Speaker 2: dangerous because there's checkpoints everywhere and the regime is extremely paranoid,

1035
01:03:17,120 --> 01:03:21,760
Speaker 2: and so they're just arresting people and pros they're not

1036
01:03:22,920 --> 01:03:24,360
Speaker 2: they kind of you know, it's a bit of a

1037
01:03:24,440 --> 01:03:27,000
Speaker 2: it's a tricky one because if you're if you're trying

1038
01:03:27,040 --> 01:03:30,480
Speaker 2: to leave, you know, you're well, why are you leaving now?

1039
01:03:31,440 --> 01:03:35,760
Speaker 2: And at the same time people are trying to find

1040
01:03:36,160 --> 01:03:39,480
Speaker 2: moles and spies. The regime is trying to find moles

1041
01:03:39,480 --> 01:03:42,480
Speaker 2: and spies, and so it's just it's just dangerous.

1042
01:03:43,200 --> 01:03:45,600
Speaker 1: Automatically as suspect as far as they're.

1043
01:03:45,480 --> 01:03:48,320
Speaker 2: Concerned, but even just being out in the streets of

1044
01:03:48,440 --> 01:03:52,280
Speaker 2: checking people's phones, like it's just a terrifying existence. And

1045
01:03:52,320 --> 01:03:54,600
Speaker 2: so you're just staying in your house and mind you

1046
01:03:54,680 --> 01:03:58,600
Speaker 2: remember it's Persian New Year, So Persian New Year starts

1047
01:03:58,640 --> 01:04:02,240
Speaker 2: on the first day of years on Friday. Last night,

1048
01:04:02,680 --> 01:04:05,840
Speaker 2: there's a tradition called Charsha Ambassudi which you jump over

1049
01:04:05,960 --> 01:04:08,160
Speaker 2: fire and sort of leave the ailments of the year

1050
01:04:08,200 --> 01:04:10,840
Speaker 2: in the past and you kind of take the vibrance

1051
01:04:10,880 --> 01:04:11,200
Speaker 2: of the.

1052
01:04:11,120 --> 01:04:14,680
Speaker 1: Fire just to timestamp this because this is going to

1053
01:04:14,720 --> 01:04:17,080
Speaker 1: happen after the New Year. We're going to air this

1054
01:04:17,160 --> 01:04:21,760
Speaker 1: literally Monday after the New Year, so we're speaking before Friday,

1055
01:04:21,760 --> 01:04:24,320
Speaker 1: but people will be hearing this after the New year ahead.

1056
01:04:24,400 --> 01:04:26,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, so New Year goes on for thirteen days of

1057
01:04:26,360 --> 01:04:29,200
Speaker 2: celebration and not going.

1058
01:04:29,120 --> 01:04:30,200
Speaker 1: To be a celebration this year.

1059
01:04:30,920 --> 01:04:34,960
Speaker 2: No, But interesting enough, we are seeing videos coming out

1060
01:04:35,000 --> 01:04:38,240
Speaker 2: of people who actually did go out and put little

1061
01:04:38,240 --> 01:04:40,480
Speaker 2: fires out and they were jumping out or jumping over

1062
01:04:40,520 --> 01:04:43,400
Speaker 2: the fires, which the security forces tried to shut down.

1063
01:04:43,400 --> 01:04:45,440
Speaker 2: But they do that every year because it's not an

1064
01:04:45,480 --> 01:04:49,160
Speaker 2: Islamic tradition, it's a pre Islami tradition. It's fund of

1065
01:04:49,200 --> 01:04:52,920
Speaker 2: their Astrian era, and it's just a Persian it's in

1066
01:04:53,000 --> 01:04:57,640
Speaker 2: a Runnian tradition, and so they don't like that, so

1067
01:04:57,680 --> 01:04:58,600
Speaker 2: they try to killer.

1068
01:04:58,440 --> 01:05:01,520
Speaker 1: Their joy, and they would they do that anytime a.

1069
01:05:01,480 --> 01:05:04,680
Speaker 2: Year, every time, every years, every year.

1070
01:05:14,880 --> 01:05:17,600
Speaker 1: You're pretty convinced this regime can hang on? Why?

1071
01:05:19,280 --> 01:05:22,080
Speaker 2: Oh no, I don't. I mean, like, I'm not convinced

1072
01:05:22,160 --> 01:05:25,200
Speaker 2: that they can that they will hang on. So they

1073
01:05:25,240 --> 01:05:28,200
Speaker 2: can hang on, I'm not convinced that they will hang

1074
01:05:28,240 --> 01:05:34,840
Speaker 2: on because ultimately, I mean, here's the thing, there's the

1075
01:05:34,920 --> 01:05:37,720
Speaker 2: Trump administration says that people need to rise up and

1076
01:05:37,760 --> 01:05:42,440
Speaker 2: take back their country, and yes they can, but you

1077
01:05:42,480 --> 01:05:46,320
Speaker 2: can't bring a knife to a gunfight. And the opposition

1078
01:05:47,080 --> 01:05:50,160
Speaker 2: is inside it be in prison. So I'm the executive

1079
01:05:50,200 --> 01:05:54,120
Speaker 2: producer of an animated short documentary, a film directed by

1080
01:05:54,120 --> 01:05:57,840
Speaker 2: a Hodda Soapani, an Iranian filmmaker, and this is the

1081
01:05:57,880 --> 01:06:01,520
Speaker 2: story of her friend Neda who who was a woman

1082
01:06:01,640 --> 01:06:06,160
Speaker 2: life freedom activist and she was thrown in prison. And

1083
01:06:07,200 --> 01:06:09,640
Speaker 2: the story is of a night where I be in

1084
01:06:09,680 --> 01:06:16,280
Speaker 2: prison was on fire and it was a strange evening

1085
01:06:16,480 --> 01:06:19,800
Speaker 2: because they could hear gunshots, they didn't really know what

1086
01:06:19,880 --> 01:06:23,640
Speaker 2: was going on, and it was a really harrowing evening.

1087
01:06:24,240 --> 01:06:26,480
Speaker 2: And then suddenly two days later they were all released

1088
01:06:27,080 --> 01:06:29,320
Speaker 2: and they were threatened to never talk about that night.

1089
01:06:30,080 --> 01:06:34,760
Speaker 2: So something happened, very likely a sort of attempted uprising

1090
01:06:34,800 --> 01:06:39,840
Speaker 2: from inside the prison. And so the way for the

1091
01:06:39,920 --> 01:06:44,200
Speaker 2: regime to not survive is quite frankly, for those people

1092
01:06:44,280 --> 01:06:46,720
Speaker 2: to be empowered. And in order for them to be empowered,

1093
01:06:46,880 --> 01:06:48,560
Speaker 2: they need to be busted out of prison in some

1094
01:06:48,600 --> 01:06:51,680
Speaker 2: sort of special operations and they need to be armed.

1095
01:06:51,800 --> 01:06:55,360
Speaker 2: I mean, remember, this regime didn't come out of nowhere.

1096
01:06:55,800 --> 01:06:59,160
Speaker 2: There was a revolution in nineteen seventy nine, and so

1097
01:06:59,440 --> 01:07:03,160
Speaker 2: a counter revolution is very much a possibility.

1098
01:07:03,720 --> 01:07:06,160
Speaker 1: So I spoke with John Bolton a couple of weeks ago,

1099
01:07:06,600 --> 01:07:10,720
Speaker 1: and his big criticism of what Trump's done is the

1100
01:07:10,840 --> 01:07:15,920
Speaker 1: lack of attempt even attempting to work with an opposition

1101
01:07:16,120 --> 01:07:19,160
Speaker 1: to organize, to help organize it. Frankly, you know a

1102
01:07:19,200 --> 01:07:20,960
Speaker 1: lot of this. You you have to plant these seeds

1103
01:07:20,960 --> 01:07:26,080
Speaker 1: before the military campaign begins and look for a variety

1104
01:07:26,120 --> 01:07:28,480
Speaker 1: of reasons, whether it's killing U. S. A, I, D

1105
01:07:29,360 --> 01:07:32,200
Speaker 1: neutering the US Information Agency, right, all of our soft

1106
01:07:32,240 --> 01:07:37,080
Speaker 1: power tools got gutted. So so that was a missing piece.

1107
01:07:38,800 --> 01:07:41,560
Speaker 1: But this issue with the opposition, because it's this is

1108
01:07:41,640 --> 01:07:44,400
Speaker 1: you know, the other version of events you here there

1109
01:07:44,440 --> 01:07:47,680
Speaker 1: they're in prison or they're in hiding, right because they've

1110
01:07:47,720 --> 01:07:51,920
Speaker 1: been dispersed, or they've been killed by by this regime.

1111
01:07:53,600 --> 01:07:56,640
Speaker 1: So it sounds like you think that, you know, if

1112
01:07:56,680 --> 01:07:59,280
Speaker 1: there was if there had been some pre war planning,

1113
01:07:59,800 --> 01:08:03,120
Speaker 1: Uh okay, you know are who are some of the

1114
01:08:03,160 --> 01:08:06,680
Speaker 1: key opposition leaders? Now it's look, I can give you

1115
01:08:06,720 --> 01:08:09,280
Speaker 1: my read from this. It's clear that after the experienced

1116
01:08:09,280 --> 01:08:13,360
Speaker 1: Trump had with Venezuela, he decided the easy way out is, Hey,

1117
01:08:13,400 --> 01:08:17,320
Speaker 1: the big criticism of Iraq was the debathification process, So

1118
01:08:17,840 --> 01:08:20,360
Speaker 1: why don't we just keep the regime in place and

1119
01:08:20,439 --> 01:08:25,000
Speaker 1: just find a more pliant leader. We did it in Venezuela.

1120
01:08:25,000 --> 01:08:28,720
Speaker 1: Why can't we do it here? So they you know,

1121
01:08:28,760 --> 01:08:32,799
Speaker 1: that appears to be how they sort of set aside

1122
01:08:32,880 --> 01:08:36,760
Speaker 1: the idea of working with an opposition, of developing an opposition,

1123
01:08:36,800 --> 01:08:41,680
Speaker 1: of essentially freeing the opposition from from prison. Now that

1124
01:08:41,720 --> 01:08:45,120
Speaker 1: they're stuck in this is this the only play?

1125
01:08:48,520 --> 01:08:51,840
Speaker 2: Not necessarily, I mean, the fact of the matter is

1126
01:08:51,880 --> 01:08:59,640
Speaker 2: there are no great love this options. So that's just

1127
01:08:59,720 --> 01:09:08,160
Speaker 2: better any other, much like many of our American elections. Yeah,

1128
01:09:08,720 --> 01:09:15,000
Speaker 2: because so the issue with John Bolton and some of

1129
01:09:15,040 --> 01:09:20,200
Speaker 2: his colleagues is that they have a particular opposition group

1130
01:09:20,240 --> 01:09:25,599
Speaker 2: in mind, and that is the Mujahad, the k and

1131
01:09:27,160 --> 01:09:31,200
Speaker 2: nobody in around wants them ak same with the diaspora.

1132
01:09:31,880 --> 01:09:38,600
Speaker 2: They are pretty much a radical group and they have

1133
01:09:38,760 --> 01:09:43,120
Speaker 2: deep pockets and pay lots of people to lobby for them.

1134
01:09:43,280 --> 01:09:48,160
Speaker 2: And so because there are the opposition groups that exist

1135
01:09:48,200 --> 01:09:53,360
Speaker 2: outside of the country, like MK and the monarchists have

1136
01:09:53,560 --> 01:09:58,439
Speaker 2: been have had these sort of aggressive, radical sort of

1137
01:09:58,800 --> 01:10:04,320
Speaker 2: fringe the orders. I can actually understand why the White

1138
01:10:04,320 --> 01:10:08,240
Speaker 2: House would be hesitant to put their weight behind any

1139
01:10:08,280 --> 01:10:08,880
Speaker 2: of these groups.

1140
01:10:09,120 --> 01:10:10,880
Speaker 1: Now, oh, it wasn't clearly any of them had any

1141
01:10:12,160 --> 01:10:14,439
Speaker 1: ties inside the country, right Hasn't that always been the

1142
01:10:14,439 --> 01:10:16,800
Speaker 1: big criticism of both the monarchists and the MKA.

1143
01:10:17,439 --> 01:10:21,120
Speaker 2: Exactly, and people I speak to inside so like you know,

1144
01:10:21,160 --> 01:10:25,320
Speaker 2: proper Iranians, born, bred, fought through on the ground. They

1145
01:10:25,360 --> 01:10:28,400
Speaker 2: always say, our leader needs to be somebody who has

1146
01:10:28,439 --> 01:10:32,160
Speaker 2: been here and suffered with us, suffered through this, bought

1147
01:10:32,200 --> 01:10:38,800
Speaker 2: the regime with us. Now, Paul Levy's name was being

1148
01:10:38,840 --> 01:10:41,519
Speaker 2: shouted in the streets in the sense that it was

1149
01:10:42,080 --> 01:10:44,160
Speaker 2: they were saying, Java Shaw, so long live the show.

1150
01:10:44,600 --> 01:10:48,519
Speaker 2: So it's like a invoking of this you know, pre

1151
01:10:49,040 --> 01:10:51,240
Speaker 2: Islamic Revolution era and nostalgia.

1152
01:10:51,720 --> 01:10:54,639
Speaker 1: What you're saying is it shouldn't be read as this

1153
01:10:54,720 --> 01:10:57,240
Speaker 1: guy who's claiming to be the Shaw, that somehow there's

1154
01:10:57,240 --> 01:10:59,719
Speaker 1: a popular support for him exactly.

1155
01:11:00,000 --> 01:11:04,200
Speaker 2: And to be fair to him, he has continuously said

1156
01:11:04,640 --> 01:11:09,280
Speaker 2: that I see myself as a transitional figure. I want

1157
01:11:09,360 --> 01:11:13,040
Speaker 2: to you know, go in and facilitate free and fair

1158
01:11:13,120 --> 01:11:17,000
Speaker 2: elections that you know, people insider on decide who they

1159
01:11:17,120 --> 01:11:19,240
Speaker 2: want to be their candidates, and they decide who they

1160
01:11:19,240 --> 01:11:24,120
Speaker 2: want to be their leaders. And now he has made

1161
01:11:24,240 --> 01:11:26,760
Speaker 2: quite a few big moves in the past couple of

1162
01:11:26,840 --> 01:11:32,160
Speaker 2: days actually, and one of them is Shirin Ebadhi is

1163
01:11:32,640 --> 01:11:37,559
Speaker 2: kind of leading the Justice Council, and so he has

1164
01:11:37,680 --> 01:11:42,080
Speaker 2: created this sort of coalition of people who have real

1165
01:11:42,200 --> 01:11:44,839
Speaker 2: kind of experience and support on the ground, like Shirin

1166
01:11:44,880 --> 01:11:48,280
Speaker 2: Ebadi does have support on the ground. And in fact,

1167
01:11:48,640 --> 01:11:52,800
Speaker 2: I have to say, the only reason we are here

1168
01:11:52,840 --> 01:11:56,479
Speaker 2: today that we are actually talking about the end of

1169
01:11:56,520 --> 01:12:00,040
Speaker 2: the Islamic Republic as a reality is because of the

1170
01:11:59,840 --> 01:12:04,040
Speaker 2: women of Iran who paved and paved the way and

1171
01:12:04,160 --> 01:12:07,160
Speaker 2: laid the ground work. They're the only ones who have

1172
01:12:07,320 --> 01:12:11,919
Speaker 2: actually brought real change and have defeated the Islamic Republican anyway,

1173
01:12:12,280 --> 01:12:15,679
Speaker 2: in twenty twenty two when Massa Amini was killed because

1174
01:12:15,720 --> 01:12:18,320
Speaker 2: of her stray hairs and mind you, you know, like

1175
01:12:19,080 --> 01:12:21,840
Speaker 2: in Iran as women, I mean, last time I was

1176
01:12:21,840 --> 01:12:25,840
Speaker 2: there was two thousand and seven. Your existence as a

1177
01:12:25,880 --> 01:12:31,559
Speaker 2: woman in Iran is rebellion and resistance. Every single woman,

1178
01:12:31,880 --> 01:12:34,320
Speaker 2: I mean, as long if you're not a husband a right.

1179
01:12:35,000 --> 01:12:38,960
Speaker 2: And what we were then finding is that when this

1180
01:12:39,120 --> 01:12:45,040
Speaker 2: uprising happened, when people poured into the streets, people were like,

1181
01:12:45,160 --> 01:12:49,479
Speaker 2: Hijabi women were walking with the women without their hit job.

1182
01:12:50,040 --> 01:12:54,240
Speaker 2: Because it's about choice. It's about freedom of choice. I

1183
01:12:54,320 --> 01:12:56,479
Speaker 2: want to wear my hit job, but if my sister

1184
01:12:56,560 --> 01:12:58,599
Speaker 2: doesn't want to wear her hit job, she shouldn't have to.

1185
01:12:59,240 --> 01:13:02,880
Speaker 2: And what ended up happening is women stopped wearing the hijab.

1186
01:13:02,920 --> 01:13:05,680
Speaker 2: If they didn't feel like it, they just stopped wearing it.

1187
01:13:05,760 --> 01:13:08,599
Speaker 2: They said, screw the law, shoot me, shoot me dead.

1188
01:13:09,439 --> 01:13:13,680
Speaker 2: And the Iranian regime ruled by fear, so once they

1189
01:13:13,760 --> 01:13:17,840
Speaker 2: lost control of the women, they lost power. They didn't

1190
01:13:17,840 --> 01:13:20,640
Speaker 2: have to change the law formally. The women changed it

1191
01:13:20,680 --> 01:13:26,000
Speaker 2: for them. And so you know, Pa Leve's made a

1192
01:13:26,040 --> 01:13:30,679
Speaker 2: really smart move by bringing shooting a body kind of

1193
01:13:30,720 --> 01:13:35,360
Speaker 2: in the fold. But in terms of any sort of

1194
01:13:35,760 --> 01:13:41,720
Speaker 2: regime change, it would either be Pa Leve or it

1195
01:13:41,760 --> 01:13:44,880
Speaker 2: would be Trump wanting to pull a Venezuela. And the

1196
01:13:44,880 --> 01:13:48,400
Speaker 2: only person that that could like the only This sounds weird,

1197
01:13:48,400 --> 01:13:50,200
Speaker 2: I've said it before on air and people have kind

1198
01:13:50,200 --> 01:13:53,000
Speaker 2: of come at me in the comments, but when you

1199
01:13:53,000 --> 01:13:55,839
Speaker 2: think about it, he is really the only option because

1200
01:13:55,960 --> 01:13:59,720
Speaker 2: he's sort of so sidelined and not taken seriously in

1201
01:13:59,760 --> 01:14:03,240
Speaker 2: sight right, that the sort of US intelligence apparatus could

1202
01:14:03,800 --> 01:14:06,680
Speaker 2: work him to their advantage. And that's mess suit positionion.

1203
01:14:07,960 --> 01:14:09,719
Speaker 1: Well, you had said this to me. You almost said

1204
01:14:09,800 --> 01:14:12,280
Speaker 1: he sees himself this way. You think, right, it's like

1205
01:14:12,320 --> 01:14:14,400
Speaker 1: he could be the gorbutt didn you. I think he

1206
01:14:14,520 --> 01:14:16,000
Speaker 1: used the line with me, and I quoted you to

1207
01:14:16,040 --> 01:14:18,719
Speaker 1: a lot of people like, Hey, this this this Iranian

1208
01:14:18,760 --> 01:14:23,400
Speaker 1: president sort of like is not is being treated like

1209
01:14:23,439 --> 01:14:26,439
Speaker 1: a figurehead right by the by the regime more so

1210
01:14:26,479 --> 01:14:29,200
Speaker 1: than than we've seen with previous Iranian presidents, and that

1211
01:14:29,880 --> 01:14:32,720
Speaker 1: he's fash. You thought he was fashioning himself almost as

1212
01:14:32,720 --> 01:14:35,280
Speaker 1: a as the Gorbatrov transitional figure.

1213
01:14:36,240 --> 01:14:39,400
Speaker 2: And the reason why I thought that was because in

1214
01:14:39,439 --> 01:14:41,759
Speaker 2: that sort of last week of December, when the protests

1215
01:14:41,760 --> 01:14:43,960
Speaker 2: were really kickoff and the media hadn't really picked up

1216
01:14:44,000 --> 01:14:47,439
Speaker 2: yet because it was all the days. Frankly, he did

1217
01:14:47,479 --> 01:14:51,080
Speaker 2: an interview but it was like posted on the Supreme

1218
01:14:51,160 --> 01:14:58,400
Speaker 2: Leader's website and he effectively kind of cited with the protesters.

1219
01:14:58,720 --> 01:15:01,320
Speaker 2: That was what I picked up on. That was what

1220
01:15:01,360 --> 01:15:06,599
Speaker 2: caught my eye. And what was it last week March

1221
01:15:07,000 --> 01:15:10,719
Speaker 2: the weekend of March eighth. He came out and said,

1222
01:15:10,880 --> 01:15:13,120
Speaker 2: you know, we shouldn't have hit our neighbors. And then

1223
01:15:13,160 --> 01:15:15,800
Speaker 2: the IOGC turned around and hit Dubai again and said, no,

1224
01:15:16,080 --> 01:15:18,200
Speaker 2: mussag Position is the one who made the mistakes. So

1225
01:15:18,240 --> 01:15:22,120
Speaker 2: you're seeing that split m So he's kind of trying

1226
01:15:22,160 --> 01:15:26,240
Speaker 2: to assert his he's trying to assert himself and the

1227
01:15:26,320 --> 01:15:29,799
Speaker 2: ERGS is like IOGC is like, yeah, no, that's not happening.

1228
01:15:30,280 --> 01:15:33,080
Speaker 1: So I mean you think that, you know, basically, you

1229
01:15:33,160 --> 01:15:37,519
Speaker 1: look around the room and if you you know, for

1230
01:15:37,560 --> 01:15:41,000
Speaker 1: some reason the regime does fall and you need a

1231
01:15:41,000 --> 01:15:43,320
Speaker 1: transitional figure, he might actually be the best candidate.

1232
01:15:45,320 --> 01:15:47,280
Speaker 2: He's the only one. I wouldn't say he's the best.

1233
01:15:47,439 --> 01:15:48,639
Speaker 2: I think he's the only one.

1234
01:15:49,880 --> 01:15:53,320
Speaker 1: Well that makes him the best exactly. It's a contest

1235
01:15:53,320 --> 01:15:55,280
Speaker 1: to one what.

1236
01:15:55,360 --> 01:15:59,519
Speaker 2: I'm surprised nobody's talking about him and I'm surprised about this.

1237
01:15:59,600 --> 01:16:03,679
Speaker 2: And where is he is? Javad Zariff, the former foreign minister,

1238
01:16:04,080 --> 01:16:07,639
Speaker 2: the regime's charmer in chief.

1239
01:16:08,040 --> 01:16:10,320
Speaker 1: Oh him and John Carey seemed like we're, you know,

1240
01:16:10,800 --> 01:16:13,280
Speaker 1: long lost buddies. Every time they got together. Is he

1241
01:16:13,280 --> 01:16:15,320
Speaker 1: dead or alive? He's we assume he's alive, right.

1242
01:16:16,000 --> 01:16:18,920
Speaker 2: I assume he's alive, but he was. He was very

1243
01:16:19,040 --> 01:16:23,040
Speaker 2: much sidelined when the kind of hardline government came back

1244
01:16:23,040 --> 01:16:26,439
Speaker 2: in and they're ahead of that. There were lots of

1245
01:16:26,479 --> 01:16:30,400
Speaker 2: talks with him having presidential ambitions. Now I've I've met

1246
01:16:30,439 --> 01:16:33,120
Speaker 2: Zarif many times, been in touch with him many times.

1247
01:16:34,080 --> 01:16:38,759
Speaker 1: And he's very charming. I've spent some time very charming dress.

1248
01:16:39,880 --> 01:16:43,000
Speaker 2: Yes, well, he's very good at public diplomacy. Right, he

1249
01:16:43,080 --> 01:16:46,360
Speaker 2: was really good at, you know, frankly using us to

1250
01:16:46,479 --> 01:16:50,800
Speaker 2: his advantage. I mean, they sold that nuclear deal. They

1251
01:16:50,880 --> 01:16:54,719
Speaker 2: sold it to the American public as a peace deal.

1252
01:16:56,439 --> 01:17:00,160
Speaker 2: It wasn't a piece deal. It said lots of money

1253
01:17:00,320 --> 01:17:02,920
Speaker 2: to the proxies in the region that we are now

1254
01:17:03,040 --> 01:17:08,559
Speaker 2: seeing reaping the benefits of that deal. Like that is

1255
01:17:08,600 --> 01:17:12,120
Speaker 2: that's that's what's happening here. But we haven't heard from him,

1256
01:17:12,280 --> 01:17:14,360
Speaker 2: and I'm surprised we haven't heard from him, and I

1257
01:17:14,360 --> 01:17:16,720
Speaker 2: feel like we should keep an eye out for him.

1258
01:17:16,920 --> 01:17:23,120
Speaker 2: But the thing about Posishkion is, I mean, mind you, so,

1259
01:17:23,439 --> 01:17:26,200
Speaker 2: Venezuela is a difficult one to kind of compare it to,

1260
01:17:26,840 --> 01:17:30,240
Speaker 2: because I mean, this is this is an Islamic republic

1261
01:17:30,840 --> 01:17:34,800
Speaker 2: that literally exists to be at war with the US.

1262
01:17:34,920 --> 01:17:39,000
Speaker 2: They exist as a revolutionary state to fight and be

1263
01:17:39,120 --> 01:17:44,080
Speaker 2: a resisting force for Western imperialism led by America, and

1264
01:17:45,080 --> 01:17:50,800
Speaker 2: without America as an enemy, the Islamic Republic is no

1265
01:17:50,880 --> 01:17:54,960
Speaker 2: longer relevant. So if the war ends, what is the

1266
01:17:55,000 --> 01:17:58,360
Speaker 2: Islamic Republic? So like, if they declare peace with the

1267
01:17:58,439 --> 01:18:00,880
Speaker 2: US and say we're no longer at war, what is

1268
01:18:00,920 --> 01:18:03,920
Speaker 2: the Islamic Republic? In order for there to be real regime.

1269
01:18:03,720 --> 01:18:07,120
Speaker 1: Change, you can't imagine there's no deal. So this is

1270
01:18:07,439 --> 01:18:10,920
Speaker 1: you know, I'm trying to you know, I'm trying to

1271
01:18:10,960 --> 01:18:15,000
Speaker 1: put myself as best I can in Trump's shoes and

1272
01:18:15,360 --> 01:18:20,880
Speaker 1: understanding how he thinks and how he works, and he's

1273
01:18:20,920 --> 01:18:23,160
Speaker 1: going to want he I know he wants this. I

1274
01:18:23,240 --> 01:18:26,280
Speaker 1: mean he's all but signaled this publicly barely. Like I

1275
01:18:26,360 --> 01:18:28,559
Speaker 1: joke that he's he'd be fun to play poker with

1276
01:18:28,640 --> 01:18:31,200
Speaker 1: because he tells you everything you need and he literally

1277
01:18:31,560 --> 01:18:36,320
Speaker 1: turns his cards the other way so you can see them.

1278
01:18:36,400 --> 01:18:39,600
Speaker 1: He wants to get out of this, He's desperate to

1279
01:18:39,640 --> 01:18:45,880
Speaker 1: get out of this. But it doesn't sound like there's

1280
01:18:45,880 --> 01:18:48,040
Speaker 1: a deal to be cut that can be trusted, right,

1281
01:18:48,200 --> 01:18:51,160
Speaker 1: because if the regime cuts a deal. What's that deal

1282
01:18:51,240 --> 01:18:54,799
Speaker 1: look like? Any deal that keeps the regime in place,

1283
01:18:55,880 --> 01:18:58,439
Speaker 1: that's a win for the regime and a loss for

1284
01:18:58,479 --> 01:18:59,560
Speaker 1: the United States, is it not?

1285
01:19:01,200 --> 01:19:05,679
Speaker 2: I mean you the key word here is trust. How

1286
01:19:05,680 --> 01:19:09,960
Speaker 2: can we trust? Obama made a deal in good faith

1287
01:19:10,160 --> 01:19:13,000
Speaker 2: with the Islamic Republic. I remember after.

1288
01:19:12,760 --> 01:19:16,240
Speaker 5: This deal was reached, I was speaking to an official

1289
01:19:16,360 --> 01:19:21,479
Speaker 5: who was par the negotiations, and he said, don't you

1290
01:19:21,479 --> 01:19:25,679
Speaker 5: think this will lead to reforms? Like they genuinely believed

1291
01:19:26,120 --> 01:19:28,599
Speaker 5: that this would lead to reforms. They genuinely believed they

1292
01:19:28,600 --> 01:19:31,000
Speaker 5: would release all of this sanctions money and it would

1293
01:19:31,040 --> 01:19:33,639
Speaker 5: go to the people, and you know that they.

1294
01:19:33,520 --> 01:19:36,839
Speaker 2: Would make life better. And you know, I find it sweet.

1295
01:19:38,800 --> 01:19:39,680
Speaker 1: I did.

1296
01:19:39,800 --> 01:19:42,080
Speaker 2: But it did though, to be fair, it did actually

1297
01:19:42,160 --> 01:19:46,320
Speaker 2: it did need to reform because it exposed the corruption

1298
01:19:46,439 --> 01:19:49,840
Speaker 2: of the government. Because they were like, hey, we can't

1299
01:19:49,840 --> 01:19:53,400
Speaker 2: blame the Americans anymore because they sent us all this money.

1300
01:19:53,439 --> 01:19:57,280
Speaker 1: Where is it now? I remember talking with somebody inside

1301
01:19:57,560 --> 01:20:00,000
Speaker 1: Obama world who was a bit more of a realistic

1302
01:20:00,000 --> 01:20:04,439
Speaker 1: about Iran wasn't as and and was trying to make

1303
01:20:04,439 --> 01:20:07,479
Speaker 1: the case that Obama wasn't a real He didn't this

1304
01:20:07,600 --> 01:20:13,559
Speaker 1: wasn't that It wasn't blind faith here. But the argument

1305
01:20:13,600 --> 01:20:15,320
Speaker 1: that was made to me of like, look, you know

1306
01:20:15,400 --> 01:20:18,439
Speaker 1: why we have to do this deal in order to

1307
01:20:18,520 --> 01:20:21,120
Speaker 1: then have a rationale if we have to go militarily,

1308
01:20:21,800 --> 01:20:25,559
Speaker 1: we have to prove demot diplomacy failed. We have to

1309
01:20:25,640 --> 01:20:28,000
Speaker 1: prove that they couldn't keep their work. We have to

1310
01:20:28,040 --> 01:20:30,760
Speaker 1: prove but we have to you have to give it,

1311
01:20:31,240 --> 01:20:33,600
Speaker 1: you know. That was the explanation, like why are you

1312
01:20:33,640 --> 01:20:36,479
Speaker 1: doing this bad deal? I'm sorry, I think for a

1313
01:20:36,479 --> 01:20:41,240
Speaker 1: lot of us thought it was like, huh, okay, this this,

1314
01:20:41,240 --> 01:20:44,280
Speaker 1: this seems like they're getting a lot for very you know,

1315
01:20:44,360 --> 01:20:48,559
Speaker 1: for very little reforms in return. And that was the

1316
01:20:49,200 --> 01:20:52,479
Speaker 1: That was the spin I got, which I would count

1317
01:20:52,479 --> 01:20:55,160
Speaker 1: as realistic spin because it was from somebody who themselves

1318
01:20:55,240 --> 01:20:58,000
Speaker 1: was a skeptic of the deal and yet was charged

1319
01:20:58,040 --> 01:21:03,599
Speaker 1: with having to with Havnue. But what believed that larger

1320
01:21:03,680 --> 01:21:07,479
Speaker 1: idea that hey, you have to you have to try this.

1321
01:21:07,640 --> 01:21:09,599
Speaker 1: You can't say you can't go to war and say

1322
01:21:09,600 --> 01:21:13,040
Speaker 1: we didn't because you almost have to prove that diplomacy

1323
01:21:13,040 --> 01:21:18,040
Speaker 1: isn't going to work. And yet here we are.

1324
01:21:19,160 --> 01:21:21,760
Speaker 2: So you know how Trump said that he spoke to

1325
01:21:22,120 --> 01:21:24,439
Speaker 2: a former president who said he wished he'd done it,

1326
01:21:24,600 --> 01:21:26,720
Speaker 2: Who wish he wish he'd he'd been able.

1327
01:21:26,720 --> 01:21:29,200
Speaker 1: Well, you know, the joke is that, remember he's technically

1328
01:21:29,240 --> 01:21:30,040
Speaker 1: a former president.

1329
01:21:30,520 --> 01:21:31,559
Speaker 2: Yes, he may exact.

1330
01:21:31,840 --> 01:21:33,720
Speaker 1: He may have just been having a conversation in the

1331
01:21:33,720 --> 01:21:37,960
Speaker 1: mirror with himself forty five, you know, the forty the

1332
01:21:38,080 --> 01:21:43,040
Speaker 1: forty fifth president was speaking with the forty seventh presidents.

1333
01:21:43,080 --> 01:21:50,599
Speaker 2: True, that's true. But Obama has said he wishes he'd

1334
01:21:50,640 --> 01:21:54,000
Speaker 2: done something when the two thousand and nine Green Movement

1335
01:21:54,320 --> 01:21:59,760
Speaker 2: uprising happened, and many believe that he didn't do it

1336
01:22:00,520 --> 01:22:03,680
Speaker 2: because he had an eye on a nuclear deal. So

1337
01:22:03,720 --> 01:22:07,759
Speaker 2: that was two thousand and nine. By twenty thirteen, the

1338
01:22:07,840 --> 01:22:12,519
Speaker 2: kind of secret talks were revealed that James Sullivan was doing,

1339
01:22:14,080 --> 01:22:16,439
Speaker 2: and then by twenty fifteen we had a nuclear deal.

1340
01:22:17,640 --> 01:22:22,400
Speaker 1: Look, I you know, I think you know that's you know,

1341
01:22:22,400 --> 01:22:24,080
Speaker 1: when you play these what if games, and I love

1342
01:22:24,120 --> 01:22:27,120
Speaker 1: to do them, it's sort of alternative histories and and

1343
01:22:27,720 --> 01:22:28,920
Speaker 1: you know, what if we had done this, and what

1344
01:22:28,920 --> 01:22:32,320
Speaker 1: if we had done that. I generally think though that

1345
01:22:32,400 --> 01:22:35,400
Speaker 1: the mindset of you better try to you better exhaust

1346
01:22:35,400 --> 01:22:39,080
Speaker 1: diplomacy in the United States, I've always argued has to

1347
01:22:39,080 --> 01:22:42,879
Speaker 1: get caught. Always exhausting diplomacy. When you were the biggest

1348
01:22:42,880 --> 01:22:45,160
Speaker 1: fish in the sea, or you're the big you know,

1349
01:22:45,760 --> 01:22:48,560
Speaker 1: then you should you do it. You actually have the

1350
01:22:48,640 --> 01:22:52,640
Speaker 1: luxury to exhaust the diplomacy. Not every entity, does you know,

1351
01:22:52,680 --> 01:22:54,320
Speaker 1: they don't happen. Do you think security?

1352
01:22:54,960 --> 01:22:57,519
Speaker 2: Do you think to be fair to Trump, then that

1353
01:22:57,880 --> 01:23:06,080
Speaker 2: he I mean he's basically stuck with what was eventually

1354
01:23:06,120 --> 01:23:08,760
Speaker 2: going to have to happen. Anyway.

1355
01:23:08,800 --> 01:23:10,920
Speaker 1: I have been I have been a believer. I used

1356
01:23:10,920 --> 01:23:15,280
Speaker 1: to I was half joking. I'm like, you know, I said,

1357
01:23:15,320 --> 01:23:17,640
Speaker 1: you know, I Kamala Harris gets elected president, you know

1358
01:23:18,320 --> 01:23:21,000
Speaker 1: her first crisis is going to be when she has

1359
01:23:21,040 --> 01:23:24,120
Speaker 1: to bomb around And I say has to, meaning like this,

1360
01:23:24,520 --> 01:23:26,560
Speaker 1: there's going to be a moment where Israel's going to

1361
01:23:26,600 --> 01:23:28,439
Speaker 1: test and it's like, well Jesus, you can't have Israel

1362
01:23:28,439 --> 01:23:31,840
Speaker 1: to do it by themselves. And it was like I

1363
01:23:32,520 --> 01:23:34,920
Speaker 1: think I always viewed it as inevitable that the next

1364
01:23:34,920 --> 01:23:39,040
Speaker 1: president was going to either voluntarily do this or get

1365
01:23:39,120 --> 01:23:42,719
Speaker 1: dragged into doing this. But either way, something was amiss.

1366
01:23:42,840 --> 01:23:45,760
Speaker 1: I think when we look back at mistakes Trump made,

1367
01:23:46,160 --> 01:23:49,920
Speaker 1: ripping up the nuclear deal was a mistake, proving that

1368
01:23:50,000 --> 01:23:51,920
Speaker 1: they were failing at the nuclear deal would have been

1369
01:23:51,920 --> 01:23:54,519
Speaker 1: a better way to go about this, right, like how

1370
01:23:54,560 --> 01:23:56,840
Speaker 1: they how they ended the deal. I'm not saying the

1371
01:23:56,880 --> 01:23:59,800
Speaker 1: deal was a good deal. How they how the deal

1372
01:23:59,880 --> 01:24:07,080
Speaker 1: was ended though, got lost America and the West some

1373
01:24:07,200 --> 01:24:07,679
Speaker 1: high ground.

1374
01:24:09,320 --> 01:24:14,840
Speaker 2: The problem now, though, is that there listen, there's a

1375
01:24:14,880 --> 01:24:19,120
Speaker 2: lot of room for improvement with President Trump, which is

1376
01:24:19,320 --> 01:24:28,160
Speaker 2: putting in politely. That being said, I worry, particularly from

1377
01:24:28,200 --> 01:24:33,719
Speaker 2: the perspective of the Iranian people, that the Western media,

1378
01:24:34,560 --> 01:24:41,560
Speaker 2: European media especially, it almost doesn't want Trump to succeed

1379
01:24:42,240 --> 01:24:45,360
Speaker 2: in this at the expense of the Iranian people, because

1380
01:24:45,680 --> 01:24:46,759
Speaker 2: there is there's.

1381
01:24:46,640 --> 01:24:49,320
Speaker 1: Some blind anti Trump. I know exactly what you mean.

1382
01:24:49,320 --> 01:24:51,760
Speaker 1: There's some of this blind that's almost like there's and

1383
01:24:51,800 --> 01:24:55,320
Speaker 1: you do you do wonder it's like, you know, I

1384
01:24:55,720 --> 01:24:58,000
Speaker 1: don't want Trump to fail. I think he's made some

1385
01:24:58,080 --> 01:25:01,479
Speaker 1: fatal mistakes, and you know, our job is to point

1386
01:25:01,479 --> 01:25:04,519
Speaker 1: out the mistakes he's made. But I I don't think

1387
01:25:04,520 --> 01:25:07,439
Speaker 1: you're wrong. There's this they're they're almost sometimes some of

1388
01:25:07,439 --> 01:25:11,120
Speaker 1: the coverage and you're right, particularly the European side comes

1389
01:25:11,120 --> 01:25:13,000
Speaker 1: across it like, you know, we got to prove you know,

1390
01:25:13,040 --> 01:25:14,759
Speaker 1: I hope he fails, so we can prove.

1391
01:25:14,560 --> 01:25:18,200
Speaker 2: We were right well in the As you know, warfare

1392
01:25:18,320 --> 01:25:21,640
Speaker 2: has many facets. Information warfare is a major part of that,

1393
01:25:21,720 --> 01:25:25,360
Speaker 2: and the Iranian regime is winning. I mean, I feel

1394
01:25:25,360 --> 01:25:27,840
Speaker 2: like I'm a one woman kind of fashion back checking

1395
01:25:27,920 --> 01:25:30,240
Speaker 2: machine at this point where I'm having sources inside around

1396
01:25:30,240 --> 01:25:32,840
Speaker 2: message me and say, I can't believe Trump said that

1397
01:25:32,880 --> 01:25:36,040
Speaker 2: Iranians are genetically inferior. I'm like, no, this is a

1398
01:25:36,160 --> 01:25:39,960
Speaker 2: clip that has been kind of cut off strategically at

1399
01:25:40,000 --> 01:25:43,080
Speaker 2: the end to make it sound like not that talking

1400
01:25:43,120 --> 01:25:45,960
Speaker 2: about people being genetically inferior is okay, but do you

1401
01:25:46,000 --> 01:25:47,240
Speaker 2: do you know what I mean? They sort of like

1402
01:25:47,520 --> 01:25:51,960
Speaker 2: take the they take the most problematic parts of things

1403
01:25:51,960 --> 01:25:54,480
Speaker 2: that Trump says and they work it to their advantage.

1404
01:25:54,520 --> 01:25:57,680
Speaker 2: And that is what's happening inside Iran right now, or

1405
01:25:57,800 --> 01:26:00,280
Speaker 2: the redrawing of the maps. And you know, he's not

1406
01:26:00,320 --> 01:26:03,800
Speaker 2: addressing the Iranian people directly. I mean, I've been trying

1407
01:26:03,800 --> 01:26:05,479
Speaker 2: to get an interview with him. I'm saying, you need

1408
01:26:05,520 --> 01:26:08,799
Speaker 2: to speak to somebody who is Iranian America, who they trust,

1409
01:26:09,360 --> 01:26:11,840
Speaker 2: the Iranian people trust. I mean, half the battle is

1410
01:26:11,880 --> 01:26:14,440
Speaker 2: winning the hearts and minds of the Iranian people inside.

1411
01:26:15,000 --> 01:26:17,840
Speaker 2: You want them to almost be fighting with you, alongside you.

1412
01:26:18,120 --> 01:26:20,680
Speaker 2: And at first, I mean I had somebody message me

1413
01:26:20,840 --> 01:26:22,920
Speaker 2: when the bomb started, saying, when this is over, they're

1414
01:26:22,960 --> 01:26:26,120
Speaker 2: going to be erecting a statue of Trump in Azadi

1415
01:26:26,160 --> 01:26:29,360
Speaker 2: Square in Tehran. And now that sentiment is starting to

1416
01:26:29,400 --> 01:26:31,640
Speaker 2: shift because he's saying things like, oh, the map of

1417
01:26:31,680 --> 01:26:33,360
Speaker 2: Iran is not going to look the same after this,

1418
01:26:33,560 --> 01:26:37,040
Speaker 2: and you know, stuff like that, and that's really not

1419
01:26:37,200 --> 01:26:38,200
Speaker 2: going down will.

1420
01:26:46,640 --> 01:26:48,679
Speaker 1: The other thing is, I don't think he is either

1421
01:26:48,960 --> 01:26:54,280
Speaker 1: getting the information or processing the information about the difficulty

1422
01:26:54,320 --> 01:26:57,840
Speaker 1: of this right and how you know, it does sound

1423
01:26:57,920 --> 01:27:01,280
Speaker 1: like he was I mean, look, General Kin went on

1424
01:27:01,320 --> 01:27:04,160
Speaker 1: a for him, was a pr blitz about a week

1425
01:27:04,200 --> 01:27:11,200
Speaker 1: before the bombing started, just making sure everybody understood how

1426
01:27:11,240 --> 01:27:13,519
Speaker 1: hard this was going to be and that this wasn't

1427
01:27:13,600 --> 01:27:16,280
Speaker 1: going to be Venezuela and that this wasn't going to

1428
01:27:17,200 --> 01:27:21,320
Speaker 1: And it sounds like, I mean, I can just picture Trump.

1429
01:27:21,400 --> 01:27:26,280
Speaker 1: It looks like the story being that he was warned

1430
01:27:26,280 --> 01:27:28,120
Speaker 1: about the straight of horn moves and he's now kind

1431
01:27:28,160 --> 01:27:30,680
Speaker 1: of admitting, sure, I was warned, but you know, he

1432
01:27:30,800 --> 01:27:34,360
Speaker 1: just assumed the regime would fold and I don't know

1433
01:27:34,400 --> 01:27:38,280
Speaker 1: whether that was people telling him what he wanted to

1434
01:27:38,320 --> 01:27:42,000
Speaker 1: hear in order to get him to the yes on

1435
01:27:42,640 --> 01:27:46,759
Speaker 1: launching the strikes, or whether we had intelligence to indicate

1436
01:27:46,800 --> 01:27:49,400
Speaker 1: that this was possible. What's your sense on this?

1437
01:27:51,600 --> 01:27:54,559
Speaker 2: I mean, so, from what I know about people who

1438
01:27:54,680 --> 01:27:58,920
Speaker 2: have negotiated difficult things like North Korea, on Trump's behalf

1439
01:28:00,160 --> 01:28:07,720
Speaker 2: as somebody who makes decisions intuitively, and we're hearing that

1440
01:28:08,040 --> 01:28:12,639
Speaker 2: kind of backed up by Caroline Levitt and himself Trump

1441
01:28:12,720 --> 01:28:17,400
Speaker 2: himself by they continuously say, you know, Trump had a

1442
01:28:17,400 --> 01:28:21,800
Speaker 2: feeling or I'll do this when I feel it, and so,

1443
01:28:22,040 --> 01:28:22,599
Speaker 2: or even.

1444
01:28:22,600 --> 01:28:26,040
Speaker 1: Like Telsea Gabbard's statement, you know, he determined Iran was

1445
01:28:26,080 --> 01:28:26,840
Speaker 1: an imminent threat.

1446
01:28:28,840 --> 01:28:32,080
Speaker 2: Although okay, so I got asked about Joe Kent on

1447
01:28:32,160 --> 01:28:38,679
Speaker 2: air yesterday, and so I'm a bit confused about him

1448
01:28:39,240 --> 01:28:43,719
Speaker 2: because previous statements have said Iran is a threat, Iran

1449
01:28:43,840 --> 01:28:48,479
Speaker 2: is an eminent threat, Iran needs to be neutralized. Mind you,

1450
01:28:48,479 --> 01:28:52,360
Speaker 2: you know his wife was killed in Iraq. I believe

1451
01:28:52,360 --> 01:28:57,599
Speaker 2: it was a rock, his first wife. And now once

1452
01:28:57,720 --> 01:29:00,360
Speaker 2: this resignation came out, and you know, the media calling

1453
01:29:00,400 --> 01:29:02,360
Speaker 2: it a wartime to defection, and that's kind of how

1454
01:29:02,360 --> 01:29:08,640
Speaker 2: it's being fun. People are saying that he's being influenced

1455
01:29:08,720 --> 01:29:12,120
Speaker 2: by his new wife, who works for a kind of

1456
01:29:13,200 --> 01:29:17,479
Speaker 2: outlet that's sympathetic to the Iranians, And so I think

1457
01:29:17,680 --> 01:29:24,240
Speaker 2: this all plays into the information warfare that the Iranians

1458
01:29:24,320 --> 01:29:26,559
Speaker 2: like that just that just a hand of them like

1459
01:29:26,800 --> 01:29:29,720
Speaker 2: yet another win, because it's like, oh, look, the Americans

1460
01:29:30,120 --> 01:29:33,000
Speaker 2: don't have it together, and we're starting to see wartime

1461
01:29:33,080 --> 01:29:38,559
Speaker 2: defections and the Runians are baiting Trump into putting boots

1462
01:29:38,560 --> 01:29:41,840
Speaker 2: on the ground, which is an absolutely horrible idea and

1463
01:29:41,880 --> 01:29:45,599
Speaker 2: should absolutely not happen. Special forces operations to bust out

1464
01:29:45,640 --> 01:29:49,200
Speaker 2: the prisoners from heavy sure, boots on the ground, no way,

1465
01:29:49,560 --> 01:29:50,360
Speaker 2: all right, but how.

1466
01:29:50,200 --> 01:29:53,559
Speaker 1: Do you secure the straight if how do you secure

1467
01:29:53,600 --> 01:29:56,080
Speaker 1: the straight without boots on the shoreline?

1468
01:29:59,000 --> 01:29:59,639
Speaker 2: I knew this.

1469
01:30:00,040 --> 01:30:01,920
Speaker 1: Wouldn't be here right now to right, No, I mean

1470
01:30:01,920 --> 01:30:03,960
Speaker 1: I think this is where I think he got himself

1471
01:30:03,960 --> 01:30:07,200
Speaker 1: into it. What I've been calling a you know, quicksand

1472
01:30:07,280 --> 01:30:11,640
Speaker 1: or a Chinese finger trap, because you know, we're in

1473
01:30:11,680 --> 01:30:16,559
Speaker 1: this situation now. The United States is is why we're here,

1474
01:30:16,960 --> 01:30:20,280
Speaker 1: and well ultimately it's the Iranian regime is why we're here.

1475
01:30:20,280 --> 01:30:23,280
Speaker 1: But let's in the current moment. Why is the Straight

1476
01:30:23,400 --> 01:30:26,080
Speaker 1: not navigable at the moment, It's because of actions by

1477
01:30:26,120 --> 01:30:29,240
Speaker 1: the United States. So in theory, it is our responsibility.

1478
01:30:30,280 --> 01:30:33,720
Speaker 1: And I don't know how you can't do it with

1479
01:30:33,760 --> 01:30:37,240
Speaker 1: their power and naval power alone. You know, you cannot

1480
01:30:37,240 --> 01:30:40,080
Speaker 1: guarantee one hundred percent safety with with without that. So

1481
01:30:40,600 --> 01:30:42,640
Speaker 1: it is one of those where tactically you're going to

1482
01:30:42,720 --> 01:30:44,160
Speaker 1: have to have some boots on the ground.

1483
01:30:44,200 --> 01:30:47,040
Speaker 2: Now do you mean get the Marines on harg Island.

1484
01:30:47,479 --> 01:30:49,439
Speaker 1: Well, I think this is where we're you know, this

1485
01:30:49,479 --> 01:30:52,439
Speaker 1: is you know, this is the mission creep fear right,

1486
01:30:52,479 --> 01:30:54,479
Speaker 1: But this is how these things happen. Nobody wants to

1487
01:30:54,479 --> 01:30:56,680
Speaker 1: put boots on the ground. You do it because you

1488
01:30:56,680 --> 01:31:00,559
Speaker 1: think there's no other choice. And I think now, so

1489
01:31:00,680 --> 01:31:03,040
Speaker 1: if you think there's no other choice to open the Straight,

1490
01:31:03,720 --> 01:31:06,479
Speaker 1: you say, that's a disaster. If it's to keep the

1491
01:31:06,560 --> 01:31:09,880
Speaker 1: Straight open, you know what do the Golf States want?

1492
01:31:10,080 --> 01:31:13,040
Speaker 1: What do you know do they? And this is where

1493
01:31:13,040 --> 01:31:15,599
Speaker 1: there's some confusion. In fact, I just I'm rambling here.

1494
01:31:15,600 --> 01:31:17,880
Speaker 1: So let me actually put a pin in this and

1495
01:31:17,960 --> 01:31:22,479
Speaker 1: let's move to the Golf States. Did MBS push Trump

1496
01:31:22,520 --> 01:31:24,920
Speaker 1: to do this or not? And I say, that because

1497
01:31:24,960 --> 01:31:27,320
Speaker 1: there was this high profile Washington Post story that indicated

1498
01:31:27,320 --> 01:31:31,360
Speaker 1: that was the case. Now you've got whether it's a

1499
01:31:31,400 --> 01:31:35,639
Speaker 1: billionaire and cutter or the UAE making it pretty clear

1500
01:31:35,680 --> 01:31:37,160
Speaker 1: that they did and this is not what they were

1501
01:31:37,200 --> 01:31:43,760
Speaker 1: looking for. Do we think the Golf States sent a

1502
01:31:43,800 --> 01:31:49,360
Speaker 1: mixed message to the administration. This is a case where yeah,

1503
01:31:49,400 --> 01:31:51,400
Speaker 1: they were all for it if they thought they could

1504
01:31:51,439 --> 01:31:54,120
Speaker 1: get it done, and now that this isn't working, they're like, well, geez,

1505
01:31:54,160 --> 01:31:58,000
Speaker 1: I don't want my fingerprints on this. Now, what's what's

1506
01:31:58,120 --> 01:32:02,639
Speaker 1: your understanding of? You know, essentially, what did the UA

1507
01:32:02,840 --> 01:32:06,599
Speaker 1: and Saudi's want here? And were they supportive until they

1508
01:32:06,640 --> 01:32:08,360
Speaker 1: weren't or were they always skeptical?

1509
01:32:10,280 --> 01:32:14,800
Speaker 2: So the story that isn't being talked about is that

1510
01:32:14,880 --> 01:32:19,080
Speaker 2: in the lead up to this, the Saudis and the Martis.

1511
01:32:19,000 --> 01:32:24,680
Speaker 1: Were beefing right there. They're in a proxy war in

1512
01:32:24,720 --> 01:32:25,880
Speaker 1: Africa right now, aren't they.

1513
01:32:26,040 --> 01:32:30,120
Speaker 2: Their relationship with starting to deteriorate, much like in the

1514
01:32:30,160 --> 01:32:34,760
Speaker 2: twenty seventeen GCC blockade era when Katar was in the doghouse,

1515
01:32:35,320 --> 01:32:41,120
Speaker 2: right And so now with the UA getting hit so hard,

1516
01:32:41,360 --> 01:32:46,760
Speaker 2: Saudi Arabia is not getting hit as hard as the UA.

1517
01:32:48,840 --> 01:32:54,840
Speaker 2: It's not. And my sources, my Marti sources, have noted

1518
01:32:54,880 --> 01:32:57,920
Speaker 2: that to me and have said, you know, I don't

1519
01:32:58,000 --> 01:33:00,800
Speaker 2: understand why Saudi is not getting hit like we are

1520
01:33:01,200 --> 01:33:06,479
Speaker 2: when they were for the strikes. So there is this,

1521
01:33:06,560 --> 01:33:10,719
Speaker 2: at least from the Amarazi side, there is this sense

1522
01:33:10,840 --> 01:33:13,560
Speaker 2: that the Saudis were pro the strikes.

1523
01:33:14,360 --> 01:33:17,040
Speaker 1: What are the the way the Iranians are behaving that's

1524
01:33:17,080 --> 01:33:21,000
Speaker 1: not the case. Or are the Iranians afraid to engage Saudi?

1525
01:33:22,479 --> 01:33:26,000
Speaker 2: Remember that China brokeer the deal between Iran and Saudi Arabias.

1526
01:33:26,120 --> 01:33:31,040
Speaker 2: I think that's playing a part. I think that's playing apart.

1527
01:33:31,720 --> 01:33:35,120
Speaker 2: I think China, we haven't really I mean, so Trump

1528
01:33:35,400 --> 01:33:39,080
Speaker 2: did end up postponing the summit, didn't he his trip

1529
01:33:39,120 --> 01:33:39,519
Speaker 2: to China?

1530
01:33:40,160 --> 01:33:40,360
Speaker 1: Right?

1531
01:33:40,600 --> 01:33:44,160
Speaker 2: So I think I think I think in the next

1532
01:33:44,200 --> 01:33:47,840
Speaker 2: week or so, we'll probably see. I would expect we

1533
01:33:47,880 --> 01:33:52,599
Speaker 2: would see. I think China's role might become a bit

1534
01:33:52,640 --> 01:33:53,080
Speaker 2: more clear.

1535
01:33:54,040 --> 01:33:56,120
Speaker 1: What do you expect them to play a sort of

1536
01:33:56,160 --> 01:34:04,559
Speaker 1: a diplomatic role with trying to the Iranians, you know,

1537
01:34:04,640 --> 01:34:07,519
Speaker 1: sort of almost being a proxy for the Iranians to

1538
01:34:07,520 --> 01:34:09,680
Speaker 1: bring them to the table to do a ceasefire. Is

1539
01:34:09,680 --> 01:34:11,599
Speaker 1: that what you expect I mean.

1540
01:34:11,640 --> 01:34:13,360
Speaker 2: I think that that I wouldn't be surprised if they

1541
01:34:13,400 --> 01:34:18,280
Speaker 2: try that. You know, they they brokeered the the kind

1542
01:34:18,320 --> 01:34:21,679
Speaker 2: of detente between Saudi Arabia and Iran, so I wouldn't

1543
01:34:21,680 --> 01:34:25,360
Speaker 2: be surprised if China tries that now. At the same time,

1544
01:34:25,560 --> 01:34:29,320
Speaker 2: like again, the regime can't stay in place. It just

1545
01:34:29,560 --> 01:34:32,920
Speaker 2: it can't stay unless it can't stay in place unless

1546
01:34:32,960 --> 01:34:37,160
Speaker 2: it's a complete you know, lay down our arms. We

1547
01:34:37,240 --> 01:34:39,720
Speaker 2: are at peace, like no more death to America, like

1548
01:34:39,760 --> 01:34:40,320
Speaker 2: we're friends.

1549
01:34:40,520 --> 01:34:42,599
Speaker 1: But as you just said, like they don't have an

1550
01:34:42,640 --> 01:34:45,559
Speaker 1: identity without fighting the West. I mean, and this, I

1551
01:34:45,560 --> 01:34:49,000
Speaker 1: think this has always been the hardest thing to explain

1552
01:34:49,120 --> 01:34:54,360
Speaker 1: to some some some parts of the American audience, where

1553
01:34:55,800 --> 01:34:59,040
Speaker 1: look this regime, you know, and you know they don't

1554
01:34:59,120 --> 01:35:01,200
Speaker 1: like to hear these we're in a battle for this,

1555
01:35:01,400 --> 01:35:04,519
Speaker 1: you know, for this is a cultural war as much

1556
01:35:04,520 --> 01:35:09,000
Speaker 1: as anything else. But it kind of is right, and.

1557
01:35:10,760 --> 01:35:11,120
Speaker 3: It's a.

1558
01:35:13,960 --> 01:35:17,439
Speaker 1: We we we we view everybody through the prism of

1559
01:35:17,520 --> 01:35:21,960
Speaker 1: how we see the world and our pluralism and our idealism,

1560
01:35:22,280 --> 01:35:26,840
Speaker 1: and we we can't fathom that that there are literally

1561
01:35:27,120 --> 01:35:31,080
Speaker 1: almost a suicidal theocracies out there, you know, that don't.

1562
01:35:31,120 --> 01:35:33,680
Speaker 1: And I think Trump has a hard time processing this.

1563
01:35:33,800 --> 01:35:36,320
Speaker 1: I think Trump assumes everybody's motivated by the thing he's

1564
01:35:36,360 --> 01:35:40,320
Speaker 1: motivated for money, fame, and power, and that ultimately.

1565
01:35:40,040 --> 01:35:44,600
Speaker 2: Americans in general, I think this is an American phenomenon.

1566
01:35:44,880 --> 01:35:48,400
Speaker 2: I think we have difficulty wrapping our head around the

1567
01:35:48,400 --> 01:35:52,120
Speaker 2: fact that people there are people out there who hate

1568
01:35:52,160 --> 01:35:54,960
Speaker 2: us just because we are like they exist.

1569
01:35:54,680 --> 01:35:58,080
Speaker 1: Because right we think we're decadent, you know, and that

1570
01:35:58,120 --> 01:36:02,280
Speaker 1: we we are two materialists. And this is why you know,

1571
01:36:02,360 --> 01:36:06,679
Speaker 1: civilization is on the downslope, et cetera. Right like, and look,

1572
01:36:06,680 --> 01:36:09,960
Speaker 1: whether there's a portion of that, there's actually a portion

1573
01:36:10,200 --> 01:36:14,200
Speaker 1: of that mindset that fuels the Mega movement ironically domestically.

1574
01:36:14,560 --> 01:36:17,400
Speaker 1: And so that's what actually makes me sometimes frustrated with

1575
01:36:17,439 --> 01:36:20,679
Speaker 1: Trump that he doesn't understand the Iranian theocracy when like, dude,

1576
01:36:21,880 --> 01:36:25,720
Speaker 1: you're part of your your your some of your followers

1577
01:36:25,880 --> 01:36:29,160
Speaker 1: view you as the head of a future theocracy, even

1578
01:36:29,160 --> 01:36:32,920
Speaker 1: if you don't actually believe the own your own messages

1579
01:36:33,200 --> 01:36:33,960
Speaker 1: that you're selling.

1580
01:36:34,760 --> 01:36:36,840
Speaker 2: But this is why I find it so ironic when

1581
01:36:36,840 --> 01:36:41,960
Speaker 2: you see people, you know, protesting or mourning the death

1582
01:36:42,000 --> 01:36:45,559
Speaker 2: of the Supreme leader. I mean, the Supreme Leader. His

1583
01:36:45,680 --> 01:36:50,920
Speaker 2: whole ethos was death to America, which means death to Americans.

1584
01:36:52,000 --> 01:36:55,639
Speaker 2: But of course it's so hypocritical because you know, these

1585
01:36:55,720 --> 01:36:59,200
Speaker 2: these people preach death to America and try to ban

1586
01:36:59,360 --> 01:37:03,800
Speaker 2: everything American and Western, and yet they partake in it themselves.

1587
01:37:03,880 --> 01:37:06,559
Speaker 2: I mean, one time I was texting with a source

1588
01:37:06,640 --> 01:37:10,479
Speaker 2: who is close to this now diseased Supreme Leader, I mean,

1589
01:37:10,520 --> 01:37:15,360
Speaker 2: like he's in the inner circle. Uh, And I mentioned

1590
01:37:15,360 --> 01:37:18,720
Speaker 2: I referenced something he had said, and he said, I

1591
01:37:18,760 --> 01:37:21,280
Speaker 2: didn't say that, and I'm like, yes, you did. And

1592
01:37:21,960 --> 01:37:23,439
Speaker 2: it comes back and he says, oh, I must have

1593
01:37:23,479 --> 01:37:24,000
Speaker 2: been drunk.

1594
01:37:26,080 --> 01:37:28,280
Speaker 1: Oh really, I didn't know we were drinking.

1595
01:37:28,520 --> 01:37:30,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, oh yeah, no, there's I mean, that's the thing.

1596
01:37:30,920 --> 01:37:33,520
Speaker 2: This is, like all of the things that are decadent

1597
01:37:33,680 --> 01:37:39,920
Speaker 2: and sinful about America and Western culture they partaken themselves.

1598
01:37:40,439 --> 01:37:46,040
Speaker 2: Like it's just complete hypocrisy, right, And you know we

1599
01:37:46,120 --> 01:37:49,000
Speaker 2: see in these sort of op hits about like Ali

1600
01:37:49,080 --> 01:37:54,880
Speaker 2: Lara Johnny saying, well, you know, he he hated Western ideals,

1601
01:37:54,920 --> 01:37:57,760
Speaker 2: but at the same time was fascinated by them. And

1602
01:37:57,840 --> 01:38:01,719
Speaker 2: so you know, one of the problems for the regime

1603
01:38:02,200 --> 01:38:04,920
Speaker 2: was social media. Like social media was kind of the

1604
01:38:04,960 --> 01:38:07,640
Speaker 2: beginning of the end for them, because they couldn't control

1605
01:38:08,680 --> 01:38:12,400
Speaker 2: the narrative anymore. So they could go in and raid

1606
01:38:12,479 --> 01:38:15,759
Speaker 2: people's houses and take their satellites and throw them in jail,

1607
01:38:16,080 --> 01:38:20,719
Speaker 2: but they couldn't. They couldn't monitor all of the different

1608
01:38:20,760 --> 01:38:23,519
Speaker 2: social media channels, like they just couldn't. People were too clever.

1609
01:38:23,920 --> 01:38:27,439
Speaker 2: They have VPNs, you know, even though they did sort

1610
01:38:27,439 --> 01:38:30,240
Speaker 2: of think they were being clever and create these VPNs

1611
01:38:30,240 --> 01:38:32,879
Speaker 2: that were actually IERGC links, So like people were downloading

1612
01:38:32,960 --> 01:38:35,639
Speaker 2: VPNs thinking they're getting around the Internet blackouts and then

1613
01:38:35,720 --> 01:38:38,599
Speaker 2: actually downloading ERGC link to VPNs, and that's how they

1614
01:38:38,600 --> 01:38:42,840
Speaker 2: were catching them. So it's like really diabolical. But still,

1615
01:38:42,960 --> 01:38:46,400
Speaker 2: you know, they they couldn't and so like that, the

1616
01:38:46,479 --> 01:38:50,200
Speaker 2: TikTok dances and all of the stuff that attracted the

1617
01:38:50,240 --> 01:38:55,720
Speaker 2: Gen Z generation, they lost control of that generation, and

1618
01:38:57,080 --> 01:39:02,760
Speaker 2: the kind of forcing of Islam younger population just completely backfired.

1619
01:39:06,160 --> 01:39:09,559
Speaker 1: Well trying to figure out you know, you know, all

1620
01:39:09,680 --> 01:39:11,840
Speaker 1: regimes come to an end quickly, but it takes a

1621
01:39:11,880 --> 01:39:14,200
Speaker 1: long time for them for the quick for the quick ending.

1622
01:39:14,360 --> 01:39:16,439
Speaker 1: You know. It's like, you know, it's like the joke

1623
01:39:16,439 --> 01:39:19,519
Speaker 1: about bankruptcy. First it happened slowly, then it happens quickly, right,

1624
01:39:19,840 --> 01:39:20,360
Speaker 1: And that's.

1625
01:39:20,240 --> 01:39:22,040
Speaker 2: But it's not it's just like unraveling. Right.

1626
01:39:22,120 --> 01:39:24,880
Speaker 1: It feels like it's unraveling, but it could still be years,

1627
01:39:24,920 --> 01:39:27,240
Speaker 1: not months, not weeks, right, or do you really think

1628
01:39:27,280 --> 01:39:31,000
Speaker 1: we're no longer counting in years. We're now finally counting

1629
01:39:31,000 --> 01:39:32,280
Speaker 1: in months.

1630
01:39:33,120 --> 01:39:36,200
Speaker 2: When you pull a thread, it kind of takes a

1631
01:39:36,240 --> 01:39:39,599
Speaker 2: while for it to start to relate unravel. But then

1632
01:39:39,640 --> 01:39:42,519
Speaker 2: when it unravels, it unravels quickly, right, like when it

1633
01:39:42,600 --> 01:39:49,640
Speaker 2: reaches a point where that just disintegrates. And twenty twenty two, so,

1634
01:39:50,240 --> 01:39:53,000
Speaker 2: like I said, women had been quietly kind of pulling

1635
01:39:53,040 --> 01:39:56,160
Speaker 2: at the very thread of the fabric of the regime,

1636
01:39:56,240 --> 01:39:59,959
Speaker 2: which was hijab. It's a pillar of the Islamic Republic.

1637
01:40:00,040 --> 01:40:02,519
Speaker 2: Hijab was a pillar of the Islamic Republic because it

1638
01:40:02,560 --> 01:40:06,840
Speaker 2: was its most obvious, in your face way of exercising

1639
01:40:06,880 --> 01:40:11,120
Speaker 2: control and ruling with fear and the politics of sadness

1640
01:40:11,120 --> 01:40:14,280
Speaker 2: by like stripping color of our clothes. I mean, there's

1641
01:40:14,479 --> 01:40:18,960
Speaker 2: there's so much psychological processing and manipulation that goes into this.

1642
01:40:19,920 --> 01:40:26,040
Speaker 2: But once that started to unravel quickly after a woman

1643
01:40:26,160 --> 01:40:30,360
Speaker 2: life freedom, that's how we reached this point and so

1644
01:40:30,560 --> 01:40:35,200
Speaker 2: like the fabric, the literal fabric of the regime is

1645
01:40:35,240 --> 01:40:37,960
Speaker 2: now falling apart. It's just falling apart.

1646
01:40:38,320 --> 01:40:42,320
Speaker 1: We've been speaking for almost an hour and we've barely

1647
01:40:42,400 --> 01:40:49,120
Speaker 1: mentioned Israel. Yeah, yeah, in this country, it is the

1648
01:40:49,200 --> 01:40:55,160
Speaker 1: driving narrative of this war. Is Israel's role, Israel's you know,

1649
01:40:55,360 --> 01:40:59,120
Speaker 1: just you know, and for Israel, we know, look, they

1650
01:40:59,200 --> 01:41:03,200
Speaker 1: just decision was made after October seventh, you know, no

1651
01:41:03,360 --> 01:41:07,000
Speaker 1: more uneasy piece right that they wanted to try to,

1652
01:41:07,120 --> 01:41:11,120
Speaker 1: you know, permanently eliminate Iran's ability to wage proxy war

1653
01:41:11,160 --> 01:41:14,240
Speaker 1: against the Israelis, right, whether that was destroying Hesbelad, destroying

1654
01:41:14,240 --> 01:41:17,639
Speaker 1: a mass and doing what they're doing. I understand the mindset.

1655
01:41:17,720 --> 01:41:20,400
Speaker 1: We'll see if I think, we'll see if this is

1656
01:41:20,560 --> 01:41:24,439
Speaker 1: a workable strategy for them, But what is that long

1657
01:41:24,560 --> 01:41:29,880
Speaker 1: term impact and what if what is Iran's relations what

1658
01:41:30,000 --> 01:41:33,400
Speaker 1: is a future Iran's relationship? But what are Iranians relationship

1659
01:41:34,080 --> 01:41:39,680
Speaker 1: with Israel? If indeed the regime falls and you know,

1660
01:41:40,280 --> 01:41:42,400
Speaker 1: history is going to I think correctly noteed you know

1661
01:41:42,840 --> 01:41:48,920
Speaker 1: as much. The Israelis pushed the United States to do this, so.

1662
01:41:49,080 --> 01:41:52,920
Speaker 2: Early September twenty twenty two, a few weeks before Massa

1663
01:41:52,920 --> 01:41:55,559
Speaker 2: Amoni was killed in the Woman Life Freedom Uprising piped off.

1664
01:41:55,720 --> 01:41:59,519
Speaker 2: I was in Tel Aviv and I was reporting for

1665
01:41:59,640 --> 01:42:02,639
Speaker 2: a doc coumentary that I was hosting on the BBC.

1666
01:42:03,360 --> 01:42:06,919
Speaker 2: Got out of the shadows about the covert war between

1667
01:42:07,200 --> 01:42:11,200
Speaker 2: Iran and Israel. And before I had just moved to

1668
01:42:11,280 --> 01:42:15,760
Speaker 2: Dubai and I took the flight, the direct flight from

1669
01:42:15,840 --> 01:42:18,800
Speaker 2: Dubai to Tel Aviv. This was a historic flight because

1670
01:42:18,880 --> 01:42:24,360
Speaker 2: the Abraham Accords had just been reached, and you know,

1671
01:42:24,400 --> 01:42:26,720
Speaker 2: it was a very big deal. And I think that

1672
01:42:27,479 --> 01:42:30,920
Speaker 2: again to Trump's credit, he doesn't get credit, He does

1673
01:42:30,960 --> 01:42:33,040
Speaker 2: not get enough credit for what a big deal the

1674
01:42:33,120 --> 01:42:36,720
Speaker 2: Abraham Accords was. You know, it did also happen in

1675
01:42:36,720 --> 01:42:39,240
Speaker 2: twenty twenty, it was during COVID, like quite a lot

1676
01:42:39,280 --> 01:42:44,800
Speaker 2: overshadowed it. But again I think like because of this

1677
01:42:45,000 --> 01:42:50,280
Speaker 2: animosity towards Trump, which is often very valid, there's a

1678
01:42:50,400 --> 01:42:51,960
Speaker 2: hesitance to give credit.

1679
01:42:51,960 --> 01:42:56,240
Speaker 1: Records blind it can blind, right. Trump Trump arrangement syndrome

1680
01:42:56,320 --> 01:42:59,479
Speaker 1: is a thing, instant, there is some.

1681
01:42:59,439 --> 01:43:01,280
Speaker 2: Truth to it is a thing and so and so.

1682
01:43:01,439 --> 01:43:04,960
Speaker 2: But before I took that fight game, source of my

1683
01:43:05,240 --> 01:43:08,400
Speaker 2: kind of insider source of mine called me and he

1684
01:43:08,520 --> 01:43:14,760
Speaker 2: said worried about a called it a miscalculation. He said

1685
01:43:14,760 --> 01:43:17,519
Speaker 2: he was really worried about a miscalculation in the Iran

1686
01:43:17,600 --> 01:43:20,840
Speaker 2: Israel covert conflict, and that he worried it was going

1687
01:43:20,920 --> 01:43:23,719
Speaker 2: to spill out into the open and be a full

1688
01:43:23,760 --> 01:43:27,040
Speaker 2: on kinetic war, like bombs dropping out in the open.

1689
01:43:28,600 --> 01:43:30,160
Speaker 2: And I and you know, like the thing is like

1690
01:43:30,200 --> 01:43:33,439
Speaker 2: it kind of felt that way, like it felt like

1691
01:43:33,479 --> 01:43:36,000
Speaker 2: I was in a bit of a tinderbox being in Dubai,

1692
01:43:36,080 --> 01:43:39,800
Speaker 2: like there was tension. I didn't expect it to be

1693
01:43:39,840 --> 01:43:43,240
Speaker 2: woman life freedom truly, and I actually think woman life

1694
01:43:43,280 --> 01:43:46,880
Speaker 2: freedom maybe delayed what inevitably ended up being the twelve

1695
01:43:46,960 --> 01:43:53,840
Speaker 2: Day war last year. We kind of distracted. But when

1696
01:43:53,880 --> 01:43:57,160
Speaker 2: I went to Tel Aviv, I sat down with Amir Pardo,

1697
01:43:57,320 --> 01:44:01,880
Speaker 2: former Masade chief, and got basically what was the closest

1698
01:44:02,560 --> 01:44:08,640
Speaker 2: to an admission on the targeted assassinations program. He was

1699
01:44:08,720 --> 01:44:13,240
Speaker 2: the architect of the targeted assassinations program in Iran, where

1700
01:44:13,560 --> 01:44:17,320
Speaker 2: you know, they they started to just assassinate nuclear scientists.

1701
01:44:18,840 --> 01:44:23,280
Speaker 2: The Israeli started to assassinate nuclear scientists in around And

1702
01:44:24,600 --> 01:44:27,559
Speaker 2: when I was there, I was posting on Instagram which

1703
01:44:28,000 --> 01:44:32,479
Speaker 2: actually got me kind of blacklisted among the influencer circles

1704
01:44:32,560 --> 01:44:36,400
Speaker 2: in Dubai. So even though the UAE had just signed

1705
01:44:36,439 --> 01:44:39,679
Speaker 2: a deal with Israel and you know, you know peace,

1706
01:44:39,720 --> 01:44:41,880
Speaker 2: we're going to be friends and we're going to do deals,

1707
01:44:43,640 --> 01:44:45,920
Speaker 2: people in Dubai were not happy about it. And largely

1708
01:44:45,960 --> 01:44:49,760
Speaker 2: the Arab population is not happy about their governments doing

1709
01:44:49,800 --> 01:44:55,880
Speaker 2: business with Israel and recognizing Israel. They are not democracies.

1710
01:44:56,200 --> 01:44:59,519
Speaker 1: Yes, the leaders are want to do business with Israel

1711
01:44:59,560 --> 01:45:01,080
Speaker 1: more than the people do right.

1712
01:45:01,600 --> 01:45:06,440
Speaker 2: Yes, very much, and with their leaders no complete opposite.

1713
01:45:06,960 --> 01:45:10,799
Speaker 2: I had people in Iran messaging me on Instagram, dming

1714
01:45:10,800 --> 01:45:13,519
Speaker 2: me on Instagram and saying, please tell the Israelis that

1715
01:45:13,520 --> 01:45:14,920
Speaker 2: we love them. These are not people that I know.

1716
01:45:14,960 --> 01:45:16,880
Speaker 2: I don't know them. These are random people who follow

1717
01:45:16,920 --> 01:45:19,000
Speaker 2: me on Instagram and saw I was in Israel and

1718
01:45:19,080 --> 01:45:21,879
Speaker 2: DMed me and were like sending me messages in Farsi

1719
01:45:21,880 --> 01:45:24,040
Speaker 2: and voice notes and saying, please tell the Israelis that

1720
01:45:24,360 --> 01:45:26,720
Speaker 2: we have no problem with them, We love them like

1721
01:45:26,880 --> 01:45:29,599
Speaker 2: we want our countries to be friends. You know, our

1722
01:45:29,640 --> 01:45:34,320
Speaker 2: governments are keeping us apart. So I'm saying that because

1723
01:45:35,120 --> 01:45:40,559
Speaker 2: if and when this regime is finished, you know whatever

1724
01:45:40,600 --> 01:45:43,080
Speaker 2: that whatever the regime turns into. If and when an

1725
01:45:43,120 --> 01:45:46,280
Speaker 2: Islamic republic that lives and breathes death to America, death

1726
01:45:46,320 --> 01:45:52,600
Speaker 2: to Israel and no longer exists, yeah, there will be

1727
01:45:52,640 --> 01:45:55,919
Speaker 2: a friendship that goes back to what used to exist,

1728
01:45:56,280 --> 01:45:56,799
Speaker 2: and it'll.

1729
01:45:56,600 --> 01:45:59,200
Speaker 1: Be TI and it could be you know you're describing.

1730
01:45:59,240 --> 01:46:02,880
Speaker 1: It's sort of like if I told Americans in nineteen forty,

1731
01:46:02,880 --> 01:46:04,439
Speaker 1: if I went back into a time machine, I said,

1732
01:46:04,439 --> 01:46:06,760
Speaker 1: you know, two of America's closest allies for a good

1733
01:46:06,880 --> 01:46:08,920
Speaker 1: forty years in the future is going to be Germany

1734
01:46:08,960 --> 01:46:12,600
Speaker 1: and Japan. Well, Americans would have been, what are you

1735
01:46:12,640 --> 01:46:16,320
Speaker 1: talking about? And this could be. That's my assumption too,

1736
01:46:16,439 --> 01:46:20,320
Speaker 1: that fifty years from now the relationship between Israel and

1737
01:46:20,320 --> 01:46:23,679
Speaker 1: Iran is going to be this incredibly important and tight

1738
01:46:23,720 --> 01:46:26,600
Speaker 1: relationship and in many ways, instead of being competitors, they

1739
01:46:26,680 --> 01:46:30,280
Speaker 1: might be the co leaders of a thriving Middle East.

1740
01:46:30,640 --> 01:46:32,519
Speaker 1: And it's the golf states that are left out in

1741
01:46:32,560 --> 01:46:33,240
Speaker 1: the sidelines.

1742
01:46:34,640 --> 01:46:37,559
Speaker 2: But I think that's why the golf leaders recognize that.

1743
01:46:37,640 --> 01:46:40,280
Speaker 2: I think like NBS is smart, whatever people might want

1744
01:46:40,320 --> 01:46:43,880
Speaker 2: to say about him, you know, and his team rights record,

1745
01:46:44,000 --> 01:46:50,080
Speaker 2: he is smart. But also like if these countries were democracies,

1746
01:46:51,160 --> 01:46:56,160
Speaker 2: they would have problems with, you know, controlling the population

1747
01:46:56,520 --> 01:46:57,559
Speaker 2: and there.

1748
01:46:58,000 --> 01:46:59,400
Speaker 1: By the way we have a taste of it. Just

1749
01:46:59,439 --> 01:47:02,960
Speaker 1: look at Turk or the brief period we had Egypt

1750
01:47:03,000 --> 01:47:04,479
Speaker 1: as a democracy who got elected.

1751
01:47:06,320 --> 01:47:08,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, so it's like it's it's an uncomfortable part of

1752
01:47:08,960 --> 01:47:12,120
Speaker 2: the conversation, right, but but it has to be said.

1753
01:47:12,479 --> 01:47:14,760
Speaker 2: And I was actually, it's funny you mentioned Japan because

1754
01:47:14,760 --> 01:47:16,680
Speaker 2: I was just in Japan. I hit my I was

1755
01:47:16,680 --> 01:47:21,160
Speaker 2: celebrating my end of my hundred country challenge, and I

1756
01:47:21,280 --> 01:47:24,519
Speaker 2: was thinking, thank you, and I was just thinking about that.

1757
01:47:24,560 --> 01:47:28,280
Speaker 2: I said, you know, like we don't talk about the

1758
01:47:28,320 --> 01:47:34,240
Speaker 2: concept of forgiveness in geopolitics, and that's why I I,

1759
01:47:34,320 --> 01:47:37,880
Speaker 2: you know, the diaspora is very opinionated. And so when

1760
01:47:37,920 --> 01:47:40,800
Speaker 2: I have mentioned, like, okay, what do the options look

1761
01:47:40,880 --> 01:47:44,640
Speaker 2: like for how Iran becomes just a republic and not

1762
01:47:44,680 --> 01:47:47,680
Speaker 2: an Islamic republic? Does that mean there are kind of

1763
01:47:47,680 --> 01:47:51,639
Speaker 2: people who were in the regime who kind of come

1764
01:47:51,680 --> 01:47:54,000
Speaker 2: to the other side. You know, there has to be

1765
01:47:54,040 --> 01:47:58,120
Speaker 2: an element of forgiveness because you know, there was a

1766
01:47:58,479 --> 01:48:01,120
Speaker 2: there was a massacre that everybody who was in the

1767
01:48:01,120 --> 01:48:07,680
Speaker 2: regime is accounted for right is accountable for rather But

1768
01:48:08,600 --> 01:48:13,400
Speaker 2: at the same time, you know, like you said, we're

1769
01:48:13,400 --> 01:48:15,840
Speaker 2: friends with Germany and we're friends Japan. We dropped a

1770
01:48:15,960 --> 01:48:21,760
Speaker 2: nuclear bomb on Japan, right, you know they attacked us.

1771
01:48:22,160 --> 01:48:25,559
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's a lot to learn ends with them, probably

1772
01:48:25,600 --> 01:48:29,360
Speaker 1: a lot to learn from the Japanese about forgiveness. It

1773
01:48:29,439 --> 01:48:33,000
Speaker 1: could be the ones really bitter to this day.

1774
01:48:33,520 --> 01:48:35,920
Speaker 2: And it's not that long ago. I mean, it's still

1775
01:48:35,960 --> 01:48:37,200
Speaker 2: in our it's still in our.

1776
01:48:37,120 --> 01:48:41,599
Speaker 1: Lifetime and other people alive today exactly exactly. Well, there's

1777
01:48:41,600 --> 01:48:44,680
Speaker 1: no good place to end this conversation because we're in

1778
01:48:44,720 --> 01:48:48,640
Speaker 1: the middle of something. But you know, meaning you know,

1779
01:48:48,760 --> 01:48:51,920
Speaker 1: I know we're not We're not in any resolution mode here,

1780
01:48:52,000 --> 01:48:54,840
Speaker 1: so it's hard to So I know we're going to

1781
01:48:54,840 --> 01:48:56,400
Speaker 1: be doing it to be continued, because I think we

1782
01:48:56,640 --> 01:48:59,519
Speaker 1: I'd love to, you know, I think you know, do

1783
01:48:59,880 --> 01:49:02,320
Speaker 1: you look at this war in two week chunks, in

1784
01:49:02,439 --> 01:49:05,200
Speaker 1: one week chunks and three week chunks, what's your sense

1785
01:49:05,280 --> 01:49:08,719
Speaker 1: of of how you view this. I assume we're running

1786
01:49:08,720 --> 01:49:12,000
Speaker 1: out of targets that are reasonable at this point.

1787
01:49:12,800 --> 01:49:16,679
Speaker 2: So what I've noticed now in the kind of it's

1788
01:49:16,760 --> 01:49:20,519
Speaker 2: moving into the intelligence, it's maybe kind of it started

1789
01:49:20,560 --> 01:49:23,880
Speaker 2: on the intelligence front, right, it started as an intelligence war,

1790
01:49:24,479 --> 01:49:26,639
Speaker 2: then it became started as a covert war, that's what

1791
01:49:26,720 --> 01:49:29,800
Speaker 2: my whole scumentary is about. And then it moved into

1792
01:49:29,800 --> 01:49:32,280
Speaker 2: a kinetic war. And now I'm starting to see that

1793
01:49:32,360 --> 01:49:35,360
Speaker 2: it's moving sort of back into the cloak and diagres

1794
01:49:35,360 --> 01:49:40,040
Speaker 2: bycraft side of things that's going to be necessary to

1795
01:49:41,120 --> 01:49:44,639
Speaker 2: hit the scale. And I'm saying that because we're starting

1796
01:49:44,680 --> 01:49:46,679
Speaker 2: to see a reporting, you know, the Wall Street Journal

1797
01:49:46,720 --> 01:49:51,559
Speaker 2: how to report of how Mossad is kind of calling

1798
01:49:51,760 --> 01:49:58,600
Speaker 2: individual higher GC members and basically telling them that they

1799
01:49:58,640 --> 01:50:02,599
Speaker 2: are target And there's one a quote from one. It's

1800
01:50:02,640 --> 01:50:06,800
Speaker 2: a recording, I guess, and what one has said, You know,

1801
01:50:07,360 --> 01:50:10,719
Speaker 2: I'm not your enemy, like I'm a walking dead man.

1802
01:50:10,760 --> 01:50:14,599
Speaker 2: On I'm a walking dead man as it is. And

1803
01:50:14,760 --> 01:50:18,240
Speaker 2: I think it's important for your audience to remember who

1804
01:50:18,320 --> 01:50:21,800
Speaker 2: are the people inside, Like who is the IRGC? What

1805
01:50:21,920 --> 01:50:27,920
Speaker 2: is the IRGC? So you have every young man has

1806
01:50:28,000 --> 01:50:31,600
Speaker 2: to do their military service, much like Israel, and you

1807
01:50:31,680 --> 01:50:33,840
Speaker 2: have to do a couple of years and you have

1808
01:50:34,600 --> 01:50:37,679
Speaker 2: either the art is the army or the aria GC.

1809
01:50:37,880 --> 01:50:39,639
Speaker 2: You don't get to choose, you get you get put

1810
01:50:39,680 --> 01:50:43,240
Speaker 2: into either the or the Army, so like you could

1811
01:50:43,280 --> 01:50:48,599
Speaker 2: be a gay, tatted up like rock and roll loving

1812
01:50:49,720 --> 01:50:53,640
Speaker 2: guy and end up having to fight for the IRGC,

1813
01:50:54,720 --> 01:50:58,080
Speaker 2: like you could not believe in any of their Islamic.

1814
01:50:58,080 --> 01:51:00,840
Speaker 1: What you're saying is you think there is an opportunity

1815
01:51:00,880 --> 01:51:07,320
Speaker 1: here where where there's dissension in the ranks.

1816
01:51:07,360 --> 01:51:12,000
Speaker 2: The problem here is again goes back to information. Hearing

1817
01:51:12,040 --> 01:51:13,880
Speaker 2: about the dissension of the ranks is going to be

1818
01:51:13,880 --> 01:51:17,559
Speaker 2: the bigger problem. So I was told that, I was

1819
01:51:17,600 --> 01:51:20,400
Speaker 2: told by one of my sources in Iran that, I mean,

1820
01:51:20,400 --> 01:51:24,800
Speaker 2: it's a civilian source that basically everybody thinks much Double

1821
01:51:24,880 --> 01:51:28,960
Speaker 2: is dead. Much Double comedy is the new so called Supremely.

1822
01:51:28,720 --> 01:51:31,080
Speaker 1: There's no proof of life. I mean, I'm sorry, so

1823
01:51:31,160 --> 01:51:34,439
Speaker 1: do I you know everyone? Yeah, I don't think he

1824
01:51:34,520 --> 01:51:37,200
Speaker 1: ever was alive or maybe he was on life support.

1825
01:51:37,439 --> 01:51:40,519
Speaker 2: The statement that he put out, like when you read

1826
01:51:40,680 --> 01:51:43,800
Speaker 2: when you read it, it's very clearly more than one

1827
01:51:43,840 --> 01:51:47,800
Speaker 2: person wrote this statement. There's lots of different there's lots

1828
01:51:47,800 --> 01:51:52,719
Speaker 2: of input. Right now it turns out he's dead. That

1829
01:51:53,040 --> 01:51:56,320
Speaker 2: is a huge blow for the IRGC because they couldn't

1830
01:51:56,320 --> 01:51:59,800
Speaker 2: protect him. You know, Yes, Ali Laira Johnny is a

1831
01:51:59,800 --> 01:52:04,080
Speaker 2: big is a big one that they've lost. But they

1832
01:52:04,120 --> 01:52:07,240
Speaker 2: couldn't protect mush Tabba. They couldn't protect the Supreme Leader.

1833
01:52:07,280 --> 01:52:10,720
Speaker 2: And the thing is, you know, mush Tabba was always

1834
01:52:12,200 --> 01:52:15,639
Speaker 2: kind of rumored to be the favorite to take over

1835
01:52:15,720 --> 01:52:19,560
Speaker 2: and be the next Supreme Leader, killing his dad basically

1836
01:52:21,680 --> 01:52:28,160
Speaker 2: good at the eventual inevitable process, right, And so I think,

1837
01:52:28,240 --> 01:52:34,200
Speaker 2: like that's why the PR part of this is so important,

1838
01:52:34,600 --> 01:52:37,519
Speaker 2: and the White House really needs to up its game

1839
01:52:37,640 --> 01:52:40,400
Speaker 2: on it. They are not doing a good job. Like

1840
01:52:40,439 --> 01:52:42,519
Speaker 2: it's Persian New Year. What's their plan?

1841
01:52:43,000 --> 01:52:44,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, what's their plan?

1842
01:52:44,200 --> 01:52:46,160
Speaker 2: You know, like this is prime opportunity. You know, if

1843
01:52:46,200 --> 01:52:49,080
Speaker 2: if I was White House communications director, I'd be like,

1844
01:52:49,160 --> 01:52:52,120
Speaker 2: all right, we've got thirteen days, you know, like we

1845
01:52:52,600 --> 01:52:55,160
Speaker 2: have like a blast, we have a like who are

1846
01:52:55,200 --> 01:52:58,640
Speaker 2: we talking to, who are we reaching? What's our messaging?

1847
01:52:59,200 --> 01:53:00,559
Speaker 2: You know, like now is the time.

1848
01:53:01,120 --> 01:53:02,479
Speaker 1: There's an opportunity here yet.

1849
01:53:03,840 --> 01:53:05,840
Speaker 2: So that's why, I mean, the intelligence side of this

1850
01:53:05,920 --> 01:53:08,720
Speaker 2: is really important for the next two weeks.

1851
01:53:09,120 --> 01:53:11,000
Speaker 1: Knowing my listeners is on, They're going to want more

1852
01:53:11,040 --> 01:53:13,280
Speaker 1: from you before I get you on on here again,

1853
01:53:13,400 --> 01:53:16,000
Speaker 1: where can they find your work? Right?

1854
01:53:16,160 --> 01:53:19,479
Speaker 2: Yes, so we are on substack helmet to Heels dot com.

1855
01:53:19,640 --> 01:53:23,840
Speaker 2: And then my podcast is Global Powershifts on YouTube. I

1856
01:53:23,920 --> 01:53:27,800
Speaker 2: co host that with Jim Stenman, a former CNN correspondent.

1857
01:53:28,080 --> 01:53:31,800
Speaker 2: And then I'm on Instagram on Poor World and Helmet

1858
01:53:31,840 --> 01:53:34,679
Speaker 2: to Heels also on Twitter X poor World.

1859
01:53:35,240 --> 01:53:40,679
Speaker 1: Well, and you're a thriving and independent journalist, and thank

1860
01:53:40,720 --> 01:53:44,120
Speaker 1: goodness for it. It's not easy being independent. You've got

1861
01:53:44,160 --> 01:53:47,440
Speaker 1: to especially what you're trying to do, travel the world, security,

1862
01:53:47,479 --> 01:53:51,080
Speaker 1: all sorts of stuff. So encourage my my listeners and

1863
01:53:51,080 --> 01:53:54,160
Speaker 1: my wife and viewers to support the work that you're doing.

1864
01:53:54,960 --> 01:53:56,360
Speaker 2: Thank you, Thank you much.

1865
01:53:56,960 --> 01:54:00,519
Speaker 1: This is exactly how I expected. What I expected from

1866
01:54:00,560 --> 01:54:04,800
Speaker 1: this conversation, which was to learn a lot in undert.

1867
01:54:04,920 --> 01:54:09,400
Speaker 2: To make a pack. Yes, ma'am, do an episode having

1868
01:54:09,479 --> 01:54:10,360
Speaker 2: tea in Tehran.

1869
01:54:11,560 --> 01:54:13,680
Speaker 1: I'd love to do that. I'd love to do that.

1870
01:54:13,880 --> 01:54:15,760
Speaker 1: I'd love to get to Trent. All right, Well we're

1871
01:54:15,800 --> 01:54:18,240
Speaker 1: going to get there, all right, Suzan, this was great.

1872
01:54:18,320 --> 01:54:19,120
Speaker 1: Thanks for the time.

1873
01:54:19,760 --> 01:54:20,080
Speaker 2: Thank you.

1874
01:54:29,720 --> 01:54:32,760
Speaker 1: Well, it is Monday, which means we're going to step

1875
01:54:32,800 --> 01:54:41,640
Speaker 1: into the time machine. And as I gave you in

1876
01:54:41,640 --> 01:54:46,600
Speaker 1: the hint in the monologue, nuclear energy was your clue.

1877
01:54:48,800 --> 01:54:52,720
Speaker 1: March twenty eighth, nineteen seventy nine is where we're going

1878
01:54:52,760 --> 01:54:55,400
Speaker 1: in the time machine. So if you drive about two

1879
01:54:55,480 --> 01:54:58,400
Speaker 1: hours west of Philadelphia, in about two and a half

1880
01:54:58,480 --> 01:55:01,640
Speaker 1: maybe three hours east of Pittsburgh, you're going to come

1881
01:55:01,640 --> 01:55:06,280
Speaker 1: to the Susquehanna River just south of Harrisburg, Pennsylvania's the

1882
01:55:06,360 --> 01:55:09,840
Speaker 1: state capitol, Harrisburg, and there's a small island there, three

1883
01:55:09,880 --> 01:55:13,800
Speaker 1: Mile Island. That's where this story takes place. And if

1884
01:55:13,840 --> 01:55:16,880
Speaker 1: you were alive in nineteen seventy nine, you probably remember

1885
01:55:16,880 --> 01:55:20,440
Speaker 1: it the way I do. It was fragments, a news bulletin,

1886
01:55:21,160 --> 01:55:24,120
Speaker 1: the word radiation. You'd hear that sound, a sense that

1887
01:55:24,240 --> 01:55:27,440
Speaker 1: something serious was happening, but no one could quite explain

1888
01:55:27,520 --> 01:55:31,440
Speaker 1: what I was seven. I remember the anxiety more than

1889
01:55:31,480 --> 01:55:34,440
Speaker 1: the facts. Right, three Mile Island, ooh right? Just say

1890
01:55:34,440 --> 01:55:37,600
Speaker 1: that three words, right, and it immediately triggers something in me.

1891
01:55:38,920 --> 01:55:43,560
Speaker 1: Yet you have to look up the details, right, And

1892
01:55:43,600 --> 01:55:46,160
Speaker 1: in a way, that's the story. Though it's the fear,

1893
01:55:46,760 --> 01:55:52,880
Speaker 1: not the details, that makes this time machine an important.

1894
01:55:52,480 --> 01:55:53,320
Speaker 3: Lesson for us.

1895
01:55:53,680 --> 01:55:55,760
Speaker 1: So in March twenty eight, nineteen seventy nine, a nuclear

1896
01:55:55,760 --> 01:56:00,600
Speaker 1: reactor and three Mile Island partially melted down. There was

1897
01:56:00,640 --> 01:56:04,960
Speaker 1: no explosion, there were no mass casualties. But something else

1898
01:56:05,000 --> 01:56:11,800
Speaker 1: broke confidence. To understand the shock, you have to understand

1899
01:56:11,800 --> 01:56:14,600
Speaker 1: the expectations. What we thought nuclear power was going to

1900
01:56:14,680 --> 01:56:17,800
Speaker 1: be in the sixties and seventies, right, you know, so

1901
01:56:17,800 --> 01:56:21,200
Speaker 1: we get the nuclear bomb and we use it, and

1902
01:56:21,240 --> 01:56:23,440
Speaker 1: we have you know, Oppenheimer, and we have all this,

1903
01:56:23,560 --> 01:56:25,720
Speaker 1: you know, we have all these handering about nuclear weapons.

1904
01:56:26,240 --> 01:56:28,640
Speaker 1: But there was excitement about nuclear energy, and in the

1905
01:56:28,680 --> 01:56:31,600
Speaker 1: sixties and seventies, the United States was building nuclear power

1906
01:56:31,600 --> 01:56:34,800
Speaker 1: plants rapidly. By the late seventies, there were roughly one

1907
01:56:34,880 --> 01:56:40,960
Speaker 1: hundred reactors operating or under construction. Dozens more were in

1908
01:56:41,000 --> 01:56:46,480
Speaker 1: the planning stages. The promise was extraordinary massive energy output,

1909
01:56:47,040 --> 01:56:52,280
Speaker 1: no air pollution, less dependence on foreign oil. Something going

1910
01:56:52,280 --> 01:56:53,720
Speaker 1: on in the Middle East at the moment. Sorry, but

1911
01:56:53,800 --> 01:56:57,879
Speaker 1: I digress. Nuclear power was supposed to be the future. Basically,

1912
01:56:57,920 --> 01:56:59,600
Speaker 1: the only thing we were debating is where to put

1913
01:56:59,640 --> 01:57:05,880
Speaker 1: the waste. But that early morning on March twenty eighth,

1914
01:57:06,880 --> 01:57:11,280
Speaker 1: a pump failed. Pressure rose a really valve opened to

1915
01:57:11,320 --> 01:57:15,000
Speaker 1: release it. That part worked, but then the valve got

1916
01:57:15,040 --> 01:57:19,880
Speaker 1: stuck open. And here's the critical failure. The control room

1917
01:57:19,960 --> 01:57:25,200
Speaker 1: indicator said the valve had closed well it hadn't closed.

1918
01:57:25,840 --> 01:57:29,400
Speaker 1: Cooling water was escaping, but the operators didn't know that

1919
01:57:29,600 --> 01:57:33,280
Speaker 1: at the moment. What the operator saw was falling pressure

1920
01:57:33,560 --> 01:57:37,560
Speaker 1: and assumed the system had too much water, so they

1921
01:57:37,640 --> 01:57:42,280
Speaker 1: reduced the cooling flow, so in reality, the reactor was

1922
01:57:42,360 --> 01:57:47,640
Speaker 1: losing cooling. They were acting logically based on the warning

1923
01:57:47,720 --> 01:57:50,760
Speaker 1: system they were staring at, but it was incorrect information.

1924
01:57:51,800 --> 01:57:54,280
Speaker 1: It wasn't a single failure, but it turned into a

1925
01:57:54,320 --> 01:57:58,960
Speaker 1: cascade yet a mechanical failure, misleading instrumentation and then of

1926
01:57:59,000 --> 01:58:06,800
Speaker 1: course incorrect human interpretation. So without cooling, without that cooling water,

1927
01:58:07,760 --> 01:58:12,000
Speaker 1: the core overheated, the fuel rods were damaged. A partial

1928
01:58:12,080 --> 01:58:17,160
Speaker 1: meltdown did occur. Hydrogen gas formed inside the reactor vessel.

1929
01:58:18,320 --> 01:58:20,920
Speaker 1: In fact, a bubble of hydrogen built up, and for

1930
01:58:21,000 --> 01:58:27,080
Speaker 1: several days, experts feared that bubble of hydrogen could explode,

1931
01:58:27,200 --> 01:58:30,440
Speaker 1: and that was the fear that drove the national headlines.

1932
01:58:30,480 --> 01:58:35,480
Speaker 1: This became a feeding frenzy. Later scientists would determine that

1933
01:58:35,480 --> 01:58:38,480
Speaker 1: the bubble actually never could have ignited in that environment

1934
01:58:38,800 --> 01:58:41,680
Speaker 1: because there was never enough oxygen, but they didn't know

1935
01:58:41,720 --> 01:58:43,560
Speaker 1: that at the moment, and there was a lot of fear,

1936
01:58:44,680 --> 01:58:47,480
Speaker 1: and this is the key we never figured out the

1937
01:58:47,520 --> 01:58:50,879
Speaker 1: facts of everything that was happening and understood the science

1938
01:58:50,920 --> 01:58:56,040
Speaker 1: even until after the fact, and most disconcerting in the moments,

1939
01:58:56,920 --> 01:59:00,720
Speaker 1: and this, of course is why public confidence just on

1940
01:59:00,840 --> 01:59:06,240
Speaker 1: nuke's The experts at the time weren't sure. So what

1941
01:59:06,280 --> 01:59:10,840
Speaker 1: the public saw was the following. Harrisburg was just a

1942
01:59:10,840 --> 01:59:14,440
Speaker 1: few miles away. That's a large city, state capital, Philadelphia

1943
01:59:14,440 --> 01:59:18,720
Speaker 1: one hundred miles east, Pittsburgh two hundred miles west. This

1944
01:59:18,880 --> 01:59:20,920
Speaker 1: wasn't going to have if this explosion wasn't going to

1945
01:59:20,920 --> 01:59:24,240
Speaker 1: happen in a remote area. This was happening near state capitol,

1946
01:59:24,280 --> 01:59:27,839
Speaker 1: in a populated corridor in this country. So what people

1947
01:59:28,360 --> 01:59:33,000
Speaker 1: experienced was mass confusion. The plant operator, Metropolitan Medicine they

1948
01:59:33,040 --> 01:59:36,720
Speaker 1: would say one thing, The Nuclear Regulatory Commission they would

1949
01:59:36,720 --> 01:59:42,360
Speaker 1: say another. Information was changing hour to hour. Even the

1950
01:59:42,400 --> 01:59:48,400
Speaker 1: institutions responsible for explaining the situation weren't aligned. And then

1951
01:59:48,400 --> 01:59:52,440
Speaker 1: there was something else. Pop culture had kind of already

1952
01:59:52,480 --> 01:59:58,360
Speaker 1: primed the public for a catastrophe. Twelve days earlier, a

1953
01:59:58,400 --> 02:00:03,400
Speaker 1: movie called The China Syndrome had opened in theaters. That

1954
02:00:03,440 --> 02:00:06,720
Speaker 1: movie depicted a nuclear accident and then a cover up.

1955
02:00:07,760 --> 02:00:11,800
Speaker 1: So now suddenly people were watching the news and wondering

1956
02:00:12,120 --> 02:00:14,800
Speaker 1: if fiction had become reality. And remember movies in the

1957
02:00:14,920 --> 02:00:22,120
Speaker 1: late seventies, there were big events. Okay, millions, everybody was

1958
02:00:22,120 --> 02:00:25,240
Speaker 1: staying movies. We had no streaming, right, we just had

1959
02:00:25,240 --> 02:00:28,040
Speaker 1: our three channels. Maybe a handful of people had this

1960
02:00:28,120 --> 02:00:30,720
Speaker 1: weird thing called home box office, with this little weird

1961
02:00:30,720 --> 02:00:35,000
Speaker 1: thing that they could access on weekends only. But the

1962
02:00:35,080 --> 02:00:38,040
Speaker 1: movies were a big deal. And I remember my parents

1963
02:00:38,080 --> 02:00:42,640
Speaker 1: saw that movie. Jane Fonda was in it. You're going

1964
02:00:42,680 --> 02:00:46,880
Speaker 1: to see those movies. President Jimmy Carter visited the site

1965
02:00:46,920 --> 02:00:50,160
Speaker 1: on April first, And remember he wasn't just a politician,

1966
02:00:50,520 --> 02:00:54,800
Speaker 1: he was a trained nuclear engineer under Admiral Ricover. So

1967
02:00:54,960 --> 02:00:57,400
Speaker 1: in theory, we had the right president to deal with

1968
02:00:57,440 --> 02:01:03,360
Speaker 1: the situation like this. He understood the technology. But images

1969
02:01:03,440 --> 02:01:07,240
Speaker 1: of Carter walking through the plant in protective gear were

1970
02:01:07,280 --> 02:01:13,680
Speaker 1: broadcast nationwide. The American president wasn't safe in America. He

1971
02:01:13,760 --> 02:01:16,360
Speaker 1: actually was doing this to try to reassure the public,

1972
02:01:16,360 --> 02:01:21,000
Speaker 1: but the images did the exact opposite. Does it reinforced

1973
02:01:21,000 --> 02:01:25,920
Speaker 1: how serious the situation had become. And this is where

1974
02:01:25,920 --> 02:01:30,520
Speaker 1: the psychology shifted. Radiation is invisible, you can't see it.

1975
02:01:30,600 --> 02:01:32,880
Speaker 1: You can't smell it, and you can't feel it. The

1976
02:01:32,920 --> 02:01:35,919
Speaker 1: only way to detect it is with instruments Geiger counters

1977
02:01:35,960 --> 02:01:39,960
Speaker 1: clicking in the background. That creates distance. The public has

1978
02:01:39,960 --> 02:01:42,200
Speaker 1: to rely on experts to tell them whether they're safe.

1979
02:01:42,240 --> 02:01:45,600
Speaker 1: They don't get to tell themselves. That's an uncomfortable feeling, right.

1980
02:01:45,680 --> 02:01:48,080
Speaker 1: We would learn this during COVID. How much the public

1981
02:01:48,120 --> 02:01:51,280
Speaker 1: would push back on that feeling, and when those experts

1982
02:01:51,360 --> 02:01:55,480
Speaker 1: appear uncertain, that trust begins to erode again, something we

1983
02:01:55,600 --> 02:01:58,880
Speaker 1: all experienced during COVID, right when the specifics of what

1984
02:01:58,920 --> 02:02:01,120
Speaker 1: the expert says doesn't quite play out the way they

1985
02:02:01,120 --> 02:02:06,240
Speaker 1: say it does. And ironically, and here's the single most

1986
02:02:06,240 --> 02:02:09,200
Speaker 1: important fact you should take away from this episode. There

1987
02:02:09,200 --> 02:02:12,200
Speaker 1: were no immediate deaths and no officially confirmed fatalities from

1988
02:02:12,200 --> 02:02:15,880
Speaker 1: this accident, but for the people living nearby, the uncertainty

1989
02:02:15,920 --> 02:02:18,640
Speaker 1: never did end. The question what if has never fully

1990
02:02:18,640 --> 02:02:24,560
Speaker 1: gone away. To this day. There are various entities still

1991
02:02:25,200 --> 02:02:28,760
Speaker 1: testing for radiation poisoning, seeing what's happened, things like that,

1992
02:02:30,840 --> 02:02:34,640
Speaker 1: And this is where this became a real break. It's

1993
02:02:34,640 --> 02:02:37,480
Speaker 1: not just is nuclear power safe. If it becomes will

1994
02:02:37,520 --> 02:02:41,280
Speaker 1: we understand it when it fails? And More importantly, will

1995
02:02:41,320 --> 02:02:45,600
Speaker 1: we believe the explanation? Now, this ended up having a huge,

1996
02:02:45,640 --> 02:02:48,120
Speaker 1: huge consequences that we're still feeling today. We're at war

1997
02:02:48,120 --> 02:02:50,040
Speaker 1: in the Middle East, arguably because of Three Mile Hole.

1998
02:02:50,240 --> 02:02:54,560
Speaker 1: Let me explain, before nineteen seventy nine, nuclear expansion was steady.

1999
02:02:54,800 --> 02:02:59,200
Speaker 1: After nineteen seventy nine, new plant orders stopped, projects were canceled,

2000
02:02:59,400 --> 02:03:04,680
Speaker 1: costs or regulations tightened. The United States didn't ban nuclear energy,

2001
02:03:04,680 --> 02:03:06,600
Speaker 1: but it stopped building towards.

2002
02:03:06,360 --> 02:03:07,480
Speaker 3: A nuclear future.

2003
02:03:08,440 --> 02:03:11,800
Speaker 1: We basically, I mean, look at it now, we're just

2004
02:03:11,920 --> 02:03:16,760
Speaker 1: maintaining the power plants that are because I think we're

2005
02:03:16,800 --> 02:03:18,080
Speaker 1: afraid of shutting them down.

2006
02:03:17,960 --> 02:03:18,879
Speaker 3: And we need the power.

2007
02:03:21,600 --> 02:03:24,840
Speaker 1: But all of this had consequences. By stopping the nuclear clock,

2008
02:03:24,880 --> 02:03:28,280
Speaker 1: we didn't just stop building plants, we started building dependency.

2009
02:03:28,600 --> 02:03:31,160
Speaker 1: Every megawatt not generated by nuclear had to come from

2010
02:03:31,200 --> 02:03:35,680
Speaker 1: somewhere else. Usually that meant burning something coal, gas, or oil,

2011
02:03:35,880 --> 02:03:38,440
Speaker 1: and that continued reliance has tied the United States to

2012
02:03:38,480 --> 02:03:46,880
Speaker 1: the global energy markets, including the Middle East. Now, Three

2013
02:03:46,880 --> 02:03:51,360
Speaker 1: Mile Island alone has not stopped us from having a

2014
02:03:51,440 --> 02:03:56,839
Speaker 1: nuclear ambition, But every time confidence is about to return

2015
02:03:57,280 --> 02:04:01,680
Speaker 1: into the nuclear energy space, something else happens in the

2016
02:04:01,760 --> 02:04:05,200
Speaker 1: nineteen eighties, the industry tried to recover. Then came Chernobyl

2017
02:04:05,200 --> 02:04:10,000
Speaker 1: in nineteen eighty six. Reactor explodes, massive radiation release, global shock.

2018
02:04:10,440 --> 02:04:14,560
Speaker 1: Confidence collapses in nuclear energy again. And yes it was

2019
02:04:14,560 --> 02:04:19,160
Speaker 1: a different plant. It was bad Soviet maintenance. There's all

2020
02:04:19,200 --> 02:04:21,760
Speaker 1: sorts of explanations and rationales. This couldn't happen here, and

2021
02:04:21,880 --> 02:04:24,640
Speaker 1: this hasn't happened here, right, we haven't had radiation leaks.

2022
02:04:24,920 --> 02:04:26,680
Speaker 1: We didn't. We don't have a we don't have a

2023
02:04:26,760 --> 02:04:30,360
Speaker 1: no go zone anywhere, right like they do with Chernobyl.

2024
02:04:32,640 --> 02:04:36,680
Speaker 1: Decades later, climate concerns seemed to change the conversation. Nuclear

2025
02:04:36,760 --> 02:04:41,240
Speaker 1: energy was coming back because people saw nuclear as cleaner,

2026
02:04:41,840 --> 02:04:45,040
Speaker 1: more necessary. In twenty ten the Obama administration, so it

2027
02:04:45,120 --> 02:04:48,160
Speaker 1: was an important moment. Right Democrats was mostly the left

2028
02:04:48,200 --> 02:04:50,760
Speaker 1: that was pushing the anti New movement more so than

2029
02:04:50,760 --> 02:04:53,960
Speaker 1: the right, though nim Not in my backyard was sort

2030
02:04:54,000 --> 02:04:56,720
Speaker 1: of prevalent left and right. But it was a big

2031
02:04:56,960 --> 02:04:59,560
Speaker 1: step because, you know, the environmental community to this day

2032
02:04:59,560 --> 02:05:02,600
Speaker 1: has always been divided on nuclear energy about half or

2033
02:05:03,560 --> 02:05:08,360
Speaker 1: or four because it's the cleanest, cheapest energy that's realistic,

2034
02:05:09,360 --> 02:05:12,800
Speaker 1: and others fear that you know, have embedded in them

2035
02:05:12,880 --> 02:05:16,480
Speaker 1: the fear of what could go wrong. So in twenty ten,

2036
02:05:16,520 --> 02:05:19,960
Speaker 1: the Obama administration approved support for new nuclear plants, first

2037
02:05:20,000 --> 02:05:25,920
Speaker 1: ones we'd seen in decades. Momentum returned briefly because then

2038
02:05:26,000 --> 02:05:30,400
Speaker 1: came Fukushima twenty eleven earthquake, tsunami, cooling failure, mouthdowns again,

2039
02:05:30,840 --> 02:05:34,760
Speaker 1: totally different cause. Right, three Mile Island, Chernobyl and Fukushima

2040
02:05:34,880 --> 02:05:38,680
Speaker 1: all failed for different reasons. One was the weather event,

2041
02:05:39,360 --> 02:05:44,440
Speaker 1: one was probably bad maintenance and bad facility management, and

2042
02:05:44,560 --> 02:05:50,720
Speaker 1: one was a mechanical failure. But we had the same result.

2043
02:05:51,160 --> 02:05:56,840
Speaker 1: After Fukushima, fear returned and momentum stalled. So Three Mile Island, Chernobyl, Fukushima.

2044
02:05:56,880 --> 02:06:00,000
Speaker 1: Each time a complex system fails and explanation is different.

2045
02:06:00,160 --> 02:06:05,360
Speaker 1: Call the risk feels existential, public confidence collapses, and policy follows.

2046
02:06:07,440 --> 02:06:09,520
Speaker 1: And this is the moment to linger on because Three

2047
02:06:09,560 --> 02:06:12,720
Speaker 1: Mile Island didn't end nuclear power, but it changed the trajectory.

2048
02:06:13,360 --> 02:06:15,680
Speaker 1: If the US had continued building plants through the eighties

2049
02:06:15,680 --> 02:06:19,120
Speaker 1: and nineties, our energy system today might look very different.

2050
02:06:20,920 --> 02:06:23,680
Speaker 1: It's not a certainty, but it was a real fork

2051
02:06:23,720 --> 02:06:27,200
Speaker 1: on the road. And I'm serious. Would we be in

2052
02:06:27,240 --> 02:06:30,400
Speaker 1: the Middle East today? Where would we be in the

2053
02:06:30,400 --> 02:06:33,920
Speaker 1: climate conversation. Would our earth cleaned up a lot sooner?

2054
02:06:35,240 --> 02:06:37,800
Speaker 1: Would the temperature of the planet not be as high

2055
02:06:37,800 --> 02:06:44,920
Speaker 1: as it is. This isn't just about trust, it's about

2056
02:06:45,000 --> 02:06:47,040
Speaker 1: understanding and so when people and this is a real

2057
02:06:47,160 --> 02:06:49,720
Speaker 1: lesson that we need to figure out how to do better.

2058
02:06:49,760 --> 02:06:53,400
Speaker 1: Our public policy leaders need to figure out how communicate better.

2059
02:06:54,000 --> 02:06:56,120
Speaker 1: Scientists need to figure out how to speak American, not

2060
02:06:56,280 --> 02:07:01,879
Speaker 1: just technical English textbook English, because when people don't understand

2061
02:07:01,880 --> 02:07:05,000
Speaker 1: a risk, especially one that can kill you invisibly, they'll

2062
02:07:05,000 --> 02:07:08,880
Speaker 1: always choose caution, always, always, always, and that caution will

2063
02:07:08,880 --> 02:07:12,480
Speaker 1: get passed down to other generations. It's survival, it's human nature,

2064
02:07:14,400 --> 02:07:17,280
Speaker 1: and that's what's happened here. We're multiple generations now where

2065
02:07:17,320 --> 02:07:23,360
Speaker 1: we have this reticence on nuclear energy, and we also

2066
02:07:23,360 --> 02:07:26,360
Speaker 1: have a new technology out there that has got a

2067
02:07:26,400 --> 02:07:30,960
Speaker 1: lot of skepticism about it, artificial intelligence, and it's very

2068
02:07:31,000 --> 02:07:34,000
Speaker 1: similar nuclear. Right, the experts can't quite explain how it works. Oh,

2069
02:07:34,080 --> 02:07:39,200
Speaker 1: it hallucinates, What the hell does that mean? Right, it's

2070
02:07:39,240 --> 02:07:41,360
Speaker 1: not great. I think one of the reasons AI has

2071
02:07:41,360 --> 02:07:44,120
Speaker 1: a negative. Right, But when the designers themselves struggle to

2072
02:07:44,160 --> 02:07:50,720
Speaker 1: explain the outcome, right, so the question doesn't become is

2073
02:07:50,720 --> 02:07:53,560
Speaker 1: this safe? The question is if it fails, will we

2074
02:07:53,600 --> 02:07:54,800
Speaker 1: understand why it failed?

2075
02:07:54,880 --> 02:07:56,360
Speaker 3: And will we believe the explanation.

2076
02:07:57,880 --> 02:07:59,480
Speaker 1: So if you go back to three Mile Island today,

2077
02:07:59,480 --> 02:08:02,480
Speaker 1: it's quiet. Unit two never operated again. Unit one has

2078
02:08:02,520 --> 02:08:05,120
Speaker 1: continued for decades, but they shut it down in twenty nineteen.

2079
02:08:05,800 --> 02:08:08,040
Speaker 1: What was one supposed to represent the future of energy

2080
02:08:08,160 --> 02:08:10,840
Speaker 1: became something else, a symbol of doubt. March twenty eighth,

2081
02:08:10,960 --> 02:08:14,640
Speaker 1: nineteen seventy nine, a reactor partially melted, But what really

2082
02:08:14,720 --> 02:08:20,000
Speaker 1: changed was something harder to measure, confidence in nuclear energy.

2083
02:08:20,160 --> 02:08:22,600
Speaker 1: And once confidence in a system breaks or in an

2084
02:08:22,600 --> 02:08:26,680
Speaker 1: idea breaks, especially when people don't fully understand, the consequences

2085
02:08:26,680 --> 02:08:30,800
Speaker 1: don't last for years, they last for generations. And what

2086
02:08:30,840 --> 02:08:38,600
Speaker 1: are the unattended consequences? I mean, I you know, is

2087
02:08:38,600 --> 02:08:41,400
Speaker 1: it three more wars in the Middle East? Or if

2088
02:08:41,400 --> 02:08:44,440
Speaker 1: we go down, if we expand nuclear reactors at the

2089
02:08:44,440 --> 02:08:46,919
Speaker 1: same rate we were building them in the sixties and seventies,

2090
02:08:48,200 --> 02:08:51,400
Speaker 1: are there no more wars in the Middle East, or

2091
02:08:51,400 --> 02:08:55,800
Speaker 1: at least no more than inbolve the United States? As

2092
02:08:55,800 --> 02:09:00,640
Speaker 1: they used to say it my old employer, that might

2093
02:09:00,680 --> 02:09:12,440
Speaker 1: be one to grow on. Ask chuck. Let's do a

2094
02:09:12,480 --> 02:09:15,760
Speaker 1: little last chuck. This question comes from Chris Mooresville, North Carolina,

2095
02:09:16,360 --> 02:09:19,120
Speaker 1: and he writes Trump frequently uses phrases like radical left

2096
02:09:19,160 --> 02:09:23,440
Speaker 1: lunatics to describe Democrats, and his consistent vilification the opposition

2097
02:09:23,480 --> 02:09:25,760
Speaker 1: party feels more extreme than what I remember from past

2098
02:09:25,800 --> 02:09:28,800
Speaker 1: presidents or the same age. I'm curious about your perspective.

2099
02:09:28,840 --> 02:09:32,640
Speaker 1: Both parties have used unflattering language like liberal and conservative

2100
02:09:32,680 --> 02:09:35,040
Speaker 1: for years. By the way, isn't it weird that we've

2101
02:09:35,080 --> 02:09:38,160
Speaker 1: turned liberal and conservative into unflattering language. They're just simply

2102
02:09:38,200 --> 02:09:42,760
Speaker 1: descriptors that I think still we should not waste. But

2103
02:09:43,000 --> 02:09:46,440
Speaker 1: you are correct, we do weaponize those two words. But

2104
02:09:46,600 --> 02:09:49,400
Speaker 1: his rhetoric referring to Trump seems different in tone and intensity.

2105
02:09:49,480 --> 02:09:51,960
Speaker 1: Is his language actually more extreme historically? Or have other

2106
02:09:52,000 --> 02:09:55,240
Speaker 1: presidents used similarly harsh rhetoric to frame their political opponents?

2107
02:09:55,280 --> 02:09:57,200
Speaker 1: Love the podcast and really have enjoyed following your move

2108
02:09:57,240 --> 02:10:04,600
Speaker 1: into independent journalism. So you know, if I want to

2109
02:10:04,640 --> 02:10:06,840
Speaker 1: defend Trump's use of rhetoric, I can go back to

2110
02:10:06,880 --> 02:10:09,400
Speaker 1: the nineteenth century and find a lot of crappy stuff

2111
02:10:09,640 --> 02:10:13,600
Speaker 1: and a lot of nasty stuff. Right, I can go

2112
02:10:13,640 --> 02:10:16,280
Speaker 1: into the Nixon tapes. Right, you can hear some things

2113
02:10:16,440 --> 02:10:18,520
Speaker 1: you can't believe a president but uttered, but they were

2114
02:10:18,520 --> 02:10:19,840
Speaker 1: never meant to be uttered in public.

2115
02:10:19,920 --> 02:10:20,120
Speaker 2: Right.

2116
02:10:22,760 --> 02:10:25,640
Speaker 1: I think that where I would draw the line in

2117
02:10:25,680 --> 02:10:27,560
Speaker 1: where you're trying to go here. So, look, there's no

2118
02:10:27,600 --> 02:10:33,320
Speaker 1: doubt our politics were really personal and sometimes not just

2119
02:10:34,160 --> 02:10:37,040
Speaker 1: you know, both rhetorically violent and sometimes physically violent in

2120
02:10:37,080 --> 02:10:41,680
Speaker 1: the nineteenth century, and considering that we fought an actual

2121
02:10:41,680 --> 02:10:45,400
Speaker 1: civil war? Is that really surprising? Considering that it did

2122
02:10:45,480 --> 02:10:49,960
Speaker 1: lead to a civil war? But I think by me

2123
02:10:50,080 --> 02:10:52,080
Speaker 1: going back to the nineteenth century to say, you know,

2124
02:10:52,160 --> 02:10:55,240
Speaker 1: do we have examples of harsh rhetoric like this, you

2125
02:10:55,280 --> 02:10:57,960
Speaker 1: have to go back to the nineteenth century. You know

2126
02:10:58,480 --> 02:11:02,760
Speaker 1: that shouldn't make you feel better this. In fact, it

2127
02:11:02,840 --> 02:11:05,400
Speaker 1: probably I may have may be making you feel even

2128
02:11:05,440 --> 02:11:07,400
Speaker 1: more concerned about this. Look, I do think you know,

2129
02:11:07,480 --> 02:11:12,280
Speaker 1: Trump's words matter. A president's words matter. They leave an impression,

2130
02:11:12,480 --> 02:11:16,280
Speaker 1: They can serve as a permission slip. Right, If the

2131
02:11:16,320 --> 02:11:19,080
Speaker 1: president of the United States thinks it's okay to be

2132
02:11:19,160 --> 02:11:22,200
Speaker 1: little somebody, then why isn't it okay to be little somebody? Right?

2133
02:11:22,240 --> 02:11:24,640
Speaker 1: If the president of the United States thinks it's okay

2134
02:11:24,680 --> 02:11:26,920
Speaker 1: to say this then it must be okay to say this.

2135
02:11:27,320 --> 02:11:27,520
Speaker 2: Right.

2136
02:11:30,120 --> 02:11:33,280
Speaker 1: That's and it is different. And in the modern era

2137
02:11:33,320 --> 02:11:34,000
Speaker 1: it's been different.

2138
02:11:34,240 --> 02:11:34,400
Speaker 3: You know.

2139
02:11:34,440 --> 02:11:38,040
Speaker 1: Ever since when presidential words have been put on tape

2140
02:11:38,240 --> 02:11:42,760
Speaker 1: or have been heard or seen or heard rather than

2141
02:11:42,920 --> 02:11:46,040
Speaker 1: read right, there were plenty of harsh I mean, that's

2142
02:11:46,080 --> 02:11:48,480
Speaker 1: the thing. All the nineteenth century. Harsh rhetoric is sort

2143
02:11:48,520 --> 02:11:54,000
Speaker 1: of quotes in print, right, you don't but when you

2144
02:11:54,120 --> 02:12:01,360
Speaker 1: hear it, see it, it's you know, it's instantaneous, and

2145
02:12:01,480 --> 02:12:05,920
Speaker 1: it stems from a belief. You know. I've been through

2146
02:12:05,960 --> 02:12:08,840
Speaker 1: this with him. I've had these conversations with him about

2147
02:12:08,840 --> 02:12:10,760
Speaker 1: the use of his harsh rhetoric, and I said, you know,

2148
02:12:12,280 --> 02:12:16,880
Speaker 1: and he goes, oh, it's just he thinks it's just hyperbole,

2149
02:12:17,000 --> 02:12:19,040
Speaker 1: and that's how he defends it. I'm just, you know,

2150
02:12:19,080 --> 02:12:22,360
Speaker 1: it's over the top. It's I think I've used this

2151
02:12:22,840 --> 02:12:25,400
Speaker 1: compared you know. I think in his head he thinks

2152
02:12:25,440 --> 02:12:30,160
Speaker 1: it's no different than than the rhetoric professional wrestlers use

2153
02:12:30,200 --> 02:12:32,800
Speaker 1: at each other. You know, they don't really hate each other,

2154
02:12:32,840 --> 02:12:35,480
Speaker 1: but they use all this crazy rhetoric. It's it's a script.

2155
02:12:35,480 --> 02:12:39,080
Speaker 1: It's a soap opera, right, which is what professional wrestling is. Scripted,

2156
02:12:40,120 --> 02:12:42,560
Speaker 1: and I think in Trump's head this is this is

2157
02:12:42,640 --> 02:12:46,280
Speaker 1: political rhetoric. Is I can't tell you how often. I mean,

2158
02:12:46,320 --> 02:12:48,600
Speaker 1: I had a direct confrontation with him in a room

2159
02:12:48,640 --> 02:12:51,640
Speaker 1: full with other media executives who just sat there silently

2160
02:12:51,640 --> 02:12:54,920
Speaker 1: in the fricking cowards. But this is before. This is

2161
02:12:55,640 --> 02:12:59,000
Speaker 1: in the run up to the first term, where nobody

2162
02:12:59,000 --> 02:13:02,240
Speaker 1: else was gonna And I said, look, when you name drop,

2163
02:13:02,320 --> 02:13:04,320
Speaker 1: I just simply said, when you name drop. And it

2164
02:13:04,320 --> 02:13:06,840
Speaker 1: was one of our correspondents that whenever he would utter

2165
02:13:06,880 --> 02:13:11,840
Speaker 1: her name, literally instantaneous hate and threats would come at

2166
02:13:11,840 --> 02:13:18,560
Speaker 1: her all over the place. And I said, you know, look,

2167
02:13:19,160 --> 02:13:21,200
Speaker 1: nobody's telling you you want to bash the press, bash

2168
02:13:21,280 --> 02:13:25,040
Speaker 1: the press, but do it generally. I said, when you

2169
02:13:25,120 --> 02:13:28,840
Speaker 1: name somebody individually, you think it's all in good fun

2170
02:13:28,920 --> 02:13:30,680
Speaker 1: because he has said, oh, that's good for your ratings.

2171
02:13:30,720 --> 02:13:32,120
Speaker 1: When he would you know, he called me a son

2172
02:13:32,160 --> 02:13:35,480
Speaker 1: of a bitch. And what's always bothered me about that

2173
02:13:35,520 --> 02:13:37,040
Speaker 1: moment when he called me a son of a bitch

2174
02:13:37,120 --> 02:13:40,520
Speaker 1: at a rally. Was the first person to tell me

2175
02:13:40,520 --> 02:13:44,120
Speaker 1: about it was my then fifteen year old daughter who

2176
02:13:44,160 --> 02:13:47,480
Speaker 1: saw it on Instagram. So I've always you know, it

2177
02:13:47,520 --> 02:13:51,800
Speaker 1: was like, I'm fine, you know, I don't. I don't,

2178
02:13:51,880 --> 02:13:55,760
Speaker 1: you know, I it's funny. In my thirties and forties,

2179
02:13:55,800 --> 02:13:58,800
Speaker 1: I cared sort of in my late forties and fifties.

2180
02:13:58,840 --> 02:14:04,080
Speaker 1: I just, you know, I know it's meaningless rhetoric. But

2181
02:14:04,200 --> 02:14:07,400
Speaker 1: it is sad when you see people assume and what

2182
02:14:07,480 --> 02:14:10,440
Speaker 1: happens is they project all sorts of things on me, right,

2183
02:14:10,680 --> 02:14:14,240
Speaker 1: you know, they hear his rhetoric and then assume that, well,

2184
02:14:14,240 --> 02:14:16,720
Speaker 1: we must hate him if he's saying this about us,

2185
02:14:17,040 --> 02:14:19,560
Speaker 1: so we must be unfair to him, right, And that's

2186
02:14:19,600 --> 02:14:21,560
Speaker 1: really what this is designed to do. Right, It's just

2187
02:14:21,680 --> 02:14:27,400
Speaker 1: design to other eyes, anybody who's potentially a credible critic

2188
02:14:27,440 --> 02:14:31,920
Speaker 1: of his, and so he's trying to delegitimize and in

2189
02:14:31,960 --> 02:14:36,160
Speaker 1: some cases dehumanize. But there is a part of his

2190
02:14:36,240 --> 02:14:38,560
Speaker 1: brain that thinks it's just this is all part of

2191
02:14:38,560 --> 02:14:41,680
Speaker 1: a show, and he's got to play his part, and

2192
02:14:42,160 --> 02:14:45,160
Speaker 1: he expects to get as good as he gives, Right,

2193
02:14:45,200 --> 02:14:47,120
Speaker 1: that's what he would say. Now, of course he doesn't

2194
02:14:47,120 --> 02:14:49,840
Speaker 1: handle it when he actually when people do fire back

2195
02:14:49,880 --> 02:14:55,360
Speaker 1: at him. But look, it's why, I just, you know,

2196
02:14:55,520 --> 02:14:57,680
Speaker 1: I don't it's easy to fire back on him. I'm

2197
02:14:57,680 --> 02:15:00,400
Speaker 1: a Muller. It's easy to fire and this stuff, I

2198
02:15:00,440 --> 02:15:04,800
Speaker 1: do think it desensitizes people. I think it What it

2199
02:15:04,840 --> 02:15:10,280
Speaker 1: really does is that it for those that are for

2200
02:15:10,320 --> 02:15:15,600
Speaker 1: the meant for the less stable partisan, it gives them

2201
02:15:15,640 --> 02:15:20,360
Speaker 1: a permission slip to not treat somebody like a human

2202
02:15:20,400 --> 02:15:23,280
Speaker 1: fellow human being, but somebody below that, meaning they're willing

2203
02:15:23,320 --> 02:15:24,720
Speaker 1: to commit violence, willing.

2204
02:15:24,480 --> 02:15:25,000
Speaker 3: To do things.

2205
02:15:25,000 --> 02:15:27,960
Speaker 1: And so look, I think it's terrible. And you know,

2206
02:15:28,520 --> 02:15:30,760
Speaker 1: the first term there would be people that would denounce

2207
02:15:30,760 --> 02:15:33,160
Speaker 1: when he would do this stuff. The biggest difference between

2208
02:15:33,240 --> 02:15:35,200
Speaker 1: term one and term two is everybody just ignores it

2209
02:15:35,200 --> 02:15:38,200
Speaker 1: and looks the other way. The question is, well, how

2210
02:15:38,240 --> 02:15:41,360
Speaker 1: is it conditioning this right? And how it means we're

2211
02:15:41,400 --> 02:15:47,000
Speaker 1: normalizing this and we should never normalize this right. And

2212
02:15:47,080 --> 02:15:49,600
Speaker 1: it is disconcerting to me that the Democrats that are

2213
02:15:49,640 --> 02:15:52,000
Speaker 1: doing that are getting the most traction, are the ones

2214
02:15:52,040 --> 02:15:55,560
Speaker 1: that are willing to sort of engage in the same rhetoric.

2215
02:15:55,600 --> 02:16:02,080
Speaker 1: And I understand the emotional relief it may give you

2216
02:16:02,120 --> 02:16:06,120
Speaker 1: in a moment, that doesn't build a more perfect union.

2217
02:16:06,840 --> 02:16:10,560
Speaker 1: We know it does not. So look I struggle with

2218
02:16:10,840 --> 02:16:13,600
Speaker 1: you know, It's like I could you could spend every

2219
02:16:13,640 --> 02:16:18,080
Speaker 1: hour of every day calling out his unethical, immoral, and

2220
02:16:18,200 --> 02:16:25,560
Speaker 1: unpresidential and unpatriotic behavior. There's a point where you come

2221
02:16:25,600 --> 02:16:28,640
Speaker 1: across as Charlie Brown's, as the adults in a Charlie

2222
02:16:28,680 --> 02:16:31,320
Speaker 1: Brown cartoon wan wah wah wah wah wah, and then

2223
02:16:31,360 --> 02:16:36,000
Speaker 1: fewer and fewer people listen. But I do want to

2224
02:16:36,080 --> 02:16:38,440
Speaker 1: encourage people who I think, you know, don't have a

2225
02:16:38,440 --> 02:16:41,360
Speaker 1: lot of trust right now in either party. Maybe he

2226
02:16:41,480 --> 02:16:44,520
Speaker 1: did vote for Trump once or twice because they didn't

2227
02:16:44,640 --> 02:16:46,680
Speaker 1: like what the Democrats were offering, or they didn't you know,

2228
02:16:46,760 --> 02:16:49,000
Speaker 1: they thought, you know what, maybe yes, he's a bore.

2229
02:16:49,120 --> 02:16:52,400
Speaker 1: But his disruption hopefully will sober everybody up. Here's what

2230
02:16:52,440 --> 02:16:54,520
Speaker 1: I would tell you if your hope was it would

2231
02:16:54,520 --> 02:16:55,360
Speaker 1: sober everybody up.

2232
02:16:55,400 --> 02:16:56,040
Speaker 3: It didn't work.

2233
02:16:56,959 --> 02:16:59,000
Speaker 1: People want to get drunk or on rhetoric now, and

2234
02:16:59,040 --> 02:17:01,920
Speaker 1: people want to you know, seem to. It is what

2235
02:17:01,959 --> 02:17:04,800
Speaker 1: we have done, right what you hoped you were going

2236
02:17:04,840 --> 02:17:06,920
Speaker 1: to get out of him shaking up the system. What

2237
02:17:06,959 --> 02:17:08,920
Speaker 1: it has done is chase the good people away and

2238
02:17:08,959 --> 02:17:13,240
Speaker 1: has invited some real dirt bags to show up into

2239
02:17:13,240 --> 02:17:17,039
Speaker 1: the political space. And these people are going to be

2240
02:17:17,160 --> 02:17:21,200
Speaker 1: more grifty than ever more exploitive of the system than ever,

2241
02:17:22,240 --> 02:17:25,720
Speaker 1: and they're going to be voted in when they win,

2242
02:17:25,760 --> 02:17:28,640
Speaker 1: they're going to believe they have a mandate essentially to

2243
02:17:28,760 --> 02:17:31,280
Speaker 1: do and behave this way because hey, he did it

2244
02:17:31,680 --> 02:17:37,040
Speaker 1: and they won by basically fighting fire with fire. So

2245
02:17:37,320 --> 02:17:40,160
Speaker 1: I think what the intent of what the disruption would

2246
02:17:40,200 --> 02:17:43,480
Speaker 1: do and what has actually happened. I understand the need

2247
02:17:43,520 --> 02:17:47,240
Speaker 1: for disruption. I think the better way to disrupt this

2248
02:17:47,280 --> 02:17:49,959
Speaker 1: system now is to go find an independent because I

2249
02:17:49,959 --> 02:17:56,600
Speaker 1: think both parties are afraid. Both parties want power more than.

2250
02:17:56,480 --> 02:18:03,640
Speaker 3: They want the country to move on. That's my concern.

2251
02:18:05,240 --> 02:18:07,400
Speaker 1: All right. Next question comes from Jim Wade. He says, Hey,

2252
02:18:07,400 --> 02:18:09,760
Speaker 1: I enjoy your podcast immensely, thank you, and I have

2253
02:18:09,800 --> 02:18:12,520
Speaker 1: a brief question. I've heard you mentioned President Garfield several

2254
02:18:12,520 --> 02:18:15,080
Speaker 1: times and almost what might have been tone you made

2255
02:18:15,080 --> 02:18:16,600
Speaker 1: me curious to learn more about the man and how

2256
02:18:16,600 --> 02:18:18,560
Speaker 1: things might have gone differently had he lived. Can you

2257
02:18:18,600 --> 02:18:21,000
Speaker 1: recommend some books I might read? Thanks in advance. Yes,

2258
02:18:21,879 --> 02:18:25,600
Speaker 1: Destiny of the Republic is the one that the Netflix

2259
02:18:25,640 --> 02:18:29,560
Speaker 1: series was based on. There's three that I'm going to recommend.

2260
02:18:30,879 --> 02:18:32,480
Speaker 1: Destiny of the Republic is the one I was just

2261
02:18:32,480 --> 02:18:35,600
Speaker 1: telling about. That's Candice Millards. That book was the basis

2262
02:18:37,120 --> 02:18:41,680
Speaker 1: of Death by Lightning, the Netflix series. There's another one

2263
02:18:41,720 --> 02:18:45,440
Speaker 1: called dark Horse that was written by an old Senate staffer.

2264
02:18:46,240 --> 02:18:49,400
Speaker 1: It is it's called The Surprise Election and Political Murder

2265
02:18:49,440 --> 02:18:52,440
Speaker 1: of President James A. Garfield by Kenneth Ackerman. He wrote

2266
02:18:52,440 --> 02:18:55,280
Speaker 1: that nearly twenty three years ago. It is fantastic, spends

2267
02:18:55,280 --> 02:18:57,160
Speaker 1: a lot of time in the convention. I love the

2268
02:18:57,200 --> 02:18:59,640
Speaker 1: political side of things. You could tell. It's very much

2269
02:18:59,680 --> 02:19:02,320
Speaker 1: written by a Washington insider, and I say that with love.

2270
02:19:03,280 --> 02:19:06,600
Speaker 1: And then there's a newish book out by a historian

2271
02:19:07,480 --> 02:19:13,680
Speaker 1: named C. W. Goodyear that is more more about Garfield

2272
02:19:13,959 --> 02:19:18,440
Speaker 1: the person in general and his upbringing. Look, he is

2273
02:19:18,480 --> 02:19:24,279
Speaker 1: the every every sort of mythology about you know, anybody

2274
02:19:24,320 --> 02:19:27,840
Speaker 1: can become president, you know, and the nominating comment, all

2275
02:19:27,840 --> 02:19:33,279
Speaker 1: these things. Garfield is the origin story. So those three books,

2276
02:19:34,320 --> 02:19:38,039
Speaker 1: like I said, Goodyear, Garfield Expansively, Destiny of the Republic

2277
02:19:38,080 --> 02:19:41,520
Speaker 1: and dark Horse are both about more about just the

2278
02:19:41,560 --> 02:19:47,480
Speaker 1: incidents themselves. And there's some tremendous books about the Getteau

2279
02:19:47,600 --> 02:19:51,040
Speaker 1: trial itself that in alone, like the trial of Gatoau.

2280
02:19:51,040 --> 02:19:53,760
Speaker 1: Because he was alive, Garfield was still alive when the

2281
02:19:53,800 --> 02:19:56,959
Speaker 1: trial started. I mean, it's just so, but those are

2282
02:19:57,040 --> 02:19:59,120
Speaker 1: those would be the big three that I'd recommend there.

2283
02:20:00,080 --> 02:20:03,400
Speaker 1: Thanks Jim. Next question comes from mattin Connecticut and he says, Hey,

2284
02:20:03,400 --> 02:20:05,200
Speaker 1: I enjoy the podcast and the way you present all

2285
02:20:05,200 --> 02:20:07,400
Speaker 1: sides of an issue. The Lifelong Democrat have a question

2286
02:20:07,400 --> 02:20:09,760
Speaker 1: about something you discussed on a recent episode. You mentioned

2287
02:20:09,879 --> 02:20:12,279
Speaker 1: how many independents would like to see more moderate policies

2288
02:20:12,280 --> 02:20:14,600
Speaker 1: from Democratic leaders. I have a liberal leaning view of

2289
02:20:14,640 --> 02:20:16,800
Speaker 1: social issues, but a more moderate view of fiscal issues.

2290
02:20:16,800 --> 02:20:19,000
Speaker 1: So I'm curious do you think independence would like to

2291
02:20:19,000 --> 02:20:21,360
Speaker 1: see more Democrats moderate their views on social issues or

2292
02:20:21,360 --> 02:20:22,039
Speaker 1: fiscal issues?

2293
02:20:22,080 --> 02:20:23,240
Speaker 3: Any specific examples?

2294
02:20:23,280 --> 02:20:27,040
Speaker 1: Thanks? And go yukon basketball. What's fun about ukon basketball

2295
02:20:27,080 --> 02:20:30,439
Speaker 1: is you guys. You guys get two shots with both tournaments,

2296
02:20:30,520 --> 02:20:33,160
Speaker 1: right with the men and the women. One goes down,

2297
02:20:33,400 --> 02:20:37,400
Speaker 1: we got the other squad. You know, not all basketball

2298
02:20:37,400 --> 02:20:40,759
Speaker 1: programs have it as good as you talk, So kudos.

2299
02:20:42,360 --> 02:20:45,960
Speaker 1: So I want to go back to something I did

2300
02:20:46,040 --> 02:20:48,800
Speaker 1: a few months ago when I was talking about the

2301
02:20:48,800 --> 02:20:52,880
Speaker 1: old FDR coalition and right, the biggest critique of the

2302
02:20:52,920 --> 02:20:55,640
Speaker 1: FDR coalition comes from the left, and it comes from

2303
02:20:55,680 --> 02:20:59,720
Speaker 1: the social justice left because he would prioritize that can

2304
02:21:00,240 --> 02:21:03,480
Speaker 1: you know, sort of the economic populism over and in

2305
02:21:03,520 --> 02:21:06,920
Speaker 1: some ways. You know, if FDR is criticized on the

2306
02:21:06,959 --> 02:21:11,039
Speaker 1: left for anything, it's his lack of follow through on desegregation,

2307
02:21:11,320 --> 02:21:14,760
Speaker 1: it's his lack of follow through on certain social justice issues.

2308
02:21:15,640 --> 02:21:20,520
Speaker 1: And you know, yes, he appointed the first woman cabinet secretary,

2309
02:21:20,600 --> 02:21:22,840
Speaker 1: so it's not like he didn't move.

2310
02:21:22,640 --> 02:21:23,480
Speaker 3: The ball forward.

2311
02:21:24,280 --> 02:21:29,520
Speaker 1: But you know, you had a culturally diverse country, of

2312
02:21:29,600 --> 02:21:32,920
Speaker 1: religiously diverse country, and yet he got them all united

2313
02:21:34,879 --> 02:21:40,640
Speaker 1: behind behind his economic policies. So I would just say, generally,

2314
02:21:42,040 --> 02:21:47,280
Speaker 1: economic security and that's the phrase I would use here, Matt.

2315
02:21:48,040 --> 02:21:54,680
Speaker 1: Economic security is how you can win the broadest swath

2316
02:21:55,400 --> 02:22:00,160
Speaker 1: of independence. Doesn't mean you're moderate, right, I think it's

2317
02:22:00,200 --> 02:22:02,080
Speaker 1: more you know, I think this is where we need

2318
02:22:02,160 --> 02:22:05,920
Speaker 1: better language. Right, there's liberal, it's really what are your focus?

2319
02:22:06,200 --> 02:22:10,840
Speaker 1: What's your focus? And the reason Bill Clinton and Barack

2320
02:22:10,879 --> 02:22:13,320
Speaker 1: Obama did so well with the middle is that that

2321
02:22:13,440 --> 02:22:17,959
Speaker 1: they were always leaning more into economic security. Right, whether

2322
02:22:18,000 --> 02:22:22,800
Speaker 1: it's healthcare, that's part of your economic security. And so

2323
02:22:23,560 --> 02:22:27,440
Speaker 1: I think you know, you can you can get more

2324
02:22:27,480 --> 02:22:34,400
Speaker 1: devoted supporters. This is why primaries are usually more involved

2325
02:22:34,440 --> 02:22:38,240
Speaker 1: more of the social issues because your core rank and

2326
02:22:38,280 --> 02:22:41,280
Speaker 1: file voters are more and they've chosen a party based

2327
02:22:41,280 --> 02:22:43,920
Speaker 1: on those issues. They've not necessarily chosen a party based

2328
02:22:43,959 --> 02:22:47,640
Speaker 1: on economic issues. That's where we vacillate the most. So

2329
02:22:47,680 --> 02:22:50,800
Speaker 1: it's just in general, I just think it's it's it's

2330
02:22:50,879 --> 02:22:53,080
Speaker 1: I think, you know what you just describe about your

2331
02:22:53,280 --> 02:22:57,240
Speaker 1: your cut between social and fiscal issue and economic issues.

2332
02:22:57,560 --> 02:22:59,520
Speaker 1: Pretty much everybody in the right would express it the

2333
02:22:59,560 --> 02:23:02,000
Speaker 1: same way. I'm pretty conservative on this, but you know,

2334
02:23:02,120 --> 02:23:06,440
Speaker 1: I ultimately, you know, you'll take a And that's why

2335
02:23:06,640 --> 02:23:10,920
Speaker 1: with Bill Clinton, you know, he got the harshest political

2336
02:23:12,640 --> 02:23:16,480
Speaker 1: beatdowns when he touched things like guns, right, but he

2337
02:23:16,520 --> 02:23:19,800
Speaker 1: got but he was able to sort of keep his

2338
02:23:19,879 --> 02:23:24,080
Speaker 1: coalition and if anything, expand when he was focused solely.

2339
02:23:23,760 --> 02:23:25,840
Speaker 3: On the economy in some form or another.

2340
02:23:26,440 --> 02:23:29,480
Speaker 1: So I just think in general, and look, and that

2341
02:23:29,720 --> 02:23:32,359
Speaker 1: I go back to something else I brought up recently.

2342
02:23:33,640 --> 02:23:35,520
Speaker 1: The base of the Democratic Party is smaller than the

2343
02:23:35,560 --> 02:23:39,120
Speaker 1: base of the Republican Party, which means Democrats have to

2344
02:23:39,160 --> 02:23:43,080
Speaker 1: win more of the sort of the less aligned voter right,

2345
02:23:43,120 --> 02:23:46,320
Speaker 1: which means you're you're moderate. You know, you're moderate or

2346
02:23:46,360 --> 02:23:51,080
Speaker 1: your independent voter. And then the Republicans do right. They

2347
02:23:51,160 --> 02:23:55,680
Speaker 1: may may seventy percent of their voters are core voters,

2348
02:23:56,040 --> 02:23:58,480
Speaker 1: are base voters, and sixty percent of Democratic voters are

2349
02:23:58,480 --> 02:24:00,920
Speaker 1: base voters. Right, So to get to the fifty percent,

2350
02:24:01,200 --> 02:24:04,400
Speaker 1: Democrats need more of the so called middle than the

2351
02:24:04,440 --> 02:24:07,320
Speaker 1: Republicans do. And because of that, I think that's why

2352
02:24:07,320 --> 02:24:11,039
Speaker 1: they almost have to lean harder on the economic security issues.

2353
02:24:11,080 --> 02:24:14,280
Speaker 1: But that's the phrase I'd be using. It's economic security. Right.

2354
02:24:14,520 --> 02:24:17,840
Speaker 1: The fear of AI is not what it's doing, it's

2355
02:24:18,240 --> 02:24:20,720
Speaker 1: fear of losing a secure economic future.

2356
02:24:20,800 --> 02:24:20,920
Speaker 2: Right.

2357
02:24:21,040 --> 02:24:25,680
Speaker 3: Economic security. That is the phrase that pays in my opinion.

2358
02:24:27,120 --> 02:24:29,080
Speaker 1: Next question comes from Brad. Hey love the pods and

2359
02:24:29,080 --> 02:24:31,119
Speaker 1: the election night live streams. Feel like I learned something

2360
02:24:31,120 --> 02:24:34,200
Speaker 1: new every time? That is that is my chief goal,

2361
02:24:34,920 --> 02:24:37,000
Speaker 1: My goal when I listen to something, did I learn

2362
02:24:37,080 --> 02:24:39,520
Speaker 1: one thing? Right? And if I do, I go back

2363
02:24:39,520 --> 02:24:40,279
Speaker 1: and keep listening.

2364
02:24:40,320 --> 02:24:43,439
Speaker 3: So I appreciate you saying that, Brad.

2365
02:24:44,160 --> 02:24:46,359
Speaker 1: Question is why are Republicans so much better than Democrats

2366
02:24:46,400 --> 02:24:48,600
Speaker 1: at messaging? Is it simply because they have a news

2367
02:24:48,680 --> 02:24:51,720
Speaker 1: channel watched by millions that does their bidding? Thanks? Ps.

2368
02:24:51,760 --> 02:24:53,680
Speaker 1: Assuming you're doing a livestream for the midterms. Is there

2369
02:24:53,720 --> 02:24:55,440
Speaker 1: a place I can send pizza's next to help you

2370
02:24:55,480 --> 02:24:58,480
Speaker 1: with the team get through the night? Oh, Brad, that's awesome.

2371
02:24:59,600 --> 02:25:03,080
Speaker 1: Probably to my friends at the d d HQ boiler room.

2372
02:25:03,200 --> 02:25:06,760
Speaker 1: They have an expansive place at the on campus at

2373
02:25:06,879 --> 02:25:11,240
Speaker 1: Georgetown's Public Policy School, So I think I'll be directing

2374
02:25:11,240 --> 02:25:17,360
Speaker 1: all pizza. So enjoy, miss Kelley. If you've gone this

2375
02:25:17,480 --> 02:25:19,720
Speaker 1: long on the pod and you're hearing you now see

2376
02:25:19,760 --> 02:25:23,360
Speaker 1: that my my, my viewers want to feed you and

2377
02:25:23,560 --> 02:25:27,119
Speaker 1: Scott and the boys anyway, So thank you for.

2378
02:25:27,080 --> 02:25:29,560
Speaker 3: That, Brad. We will we will probably take you up

2379
02:25:29,560 --> 02:25:29,880
Speaker 3: on that.

2380
02:25:33,040 --> 02:25:36,640
Speaker 1: I think on messaging for what it's worth, I think

2381
02:25:36,680 --> 02:25:40,840
Speaker 1: each I you know, people on the right complain to

2382
02:25:40,840 --> 02:25:42,959
Speaker 1: me that the left's better at messaging. People on the

2383
02:25:43,000 --> 02:25:45,199
Speaker 1: left complain to me that the right's better at messaging.

2384
02:25:46,120 --> 02:25:51,200
Speaker 1: I think some of this is confirmation bias, right do

2385
02:25:51,320 --> 02:25:59,360
Speaker 1: I think? I think Democrats fear offending a certain There's

2386
02:25:59,400 --> 02:26:03,360
Speaker 1: always this extra fear of offending an interest group that

2387
02:26:03,520 --> 02:26:07,040
Speaker 1: waters down language, which is why they sometimes don't always

2388
02:26:07,120 --> 02:26:09,879
Speaker 1: speak American. I always say, don't speak English, speak American.

2389
02:26:11,040 --> 02:26:13,760
Speaker 1: I think the Republicans are better at talking to people

2390
02:26:13,760 --> 02:26:21,360
Speaker 1: that live between I five and nine ninety five than

2391
02:26:21,360 --> 02:26:24,199
Speaker 1: Democrats do. I think Democrats worry too much about talking

2392
02:26:24,240 --> 02:26:28,879
Speaker 1: to people east of I ninety five and west of

2393
02:26:28,959 --> 02:26:33,560
Speaker 1: I five if you get where I'm going right ninety five,

2394
02:26:33,680 --> 02:26:37,080
Speaker 1: the East coast interstate, High five, the West coast interstate,

2395
02:26:37,680 --> 02:26:40,600
Speaker 1: I mean, and a lot of their voters live it live,

2396
02:26:41,720 --> 02:26:45,279
Speaker 1: you know, between the ocean and that and those two interstates,

2397
02:26:47,120 --> 02:26:49,080
Speaker 1: and I think Democrats don't want to offend voters in

2398
02:26:49,120 --> 02:26:52,160
Speaker 1: those areas. And I think Republicans do a better job

2399
02:26:52,160 --> 02:26:55,800
Speaker 1: of talking everybody in between, and they don't have the

2400
02:26:55,840 --> 02:26:58,480
Speaker 1: same interest groups holding them accountable.

2401
02:26:57,920 --> 02:26:59,320
Speaker 3: In language that the left does.

2402
02:27:00,400 --> 02:27:06,160
Speaker 1: The language police on the left is a much more aggressive,

2403
02:27:08,320 --> 02:27:14,080
Speaker 1: is much more aggressive at hitting their leaders on word

2404
02:27:14,200 --> 02:27:17,760
Speaker 1: choices than the right is. So I think when you

2405
02:27:17,840 --> 02:27:20,640
Speaker 1: factor all that in, I think it just it feels.

2406
02:27:20,879 --> 02:27:23,879
Speaker 1: I will tell you this. It always feels like both

2407
02:27:24,000 --> 02:27:28,039
Speaker 1: everybody focus groups, it feels, but it feels more noticeable

2408
02:27:28,520 --> 02:27:31,840
Speaker 1: with them with Democrats at times. But I will say this,

2409
02:27:32,000 --> 02:27:35,400
Speaker 1: I think some of this is the assumption that the

2410
02:27:35,400 --> 02:27:37,520
Speaker 1: other side is always better at it right, grass is

2411
02:27:37,520 --> 02:27:43,440
Speaker 1: always greener. Mindset mark for ann arbor rights Hey, it

2412
02:27:43,440 --> 02:27:48,039
Speaker 1: seems the authorities that run airports would benefit from implementing

2413
02:27:48,040 --> 02:27:50,879
Speaker 1: programs that would provide payday loans to TSA agents based

2414
02:27:50,879 --> 02:27:53,480
Speaker 1: at their airports. Given the benefit, seems the credit risk

2415
02:27:53,520 --> 02:27:56,680
Speaker 1: would be acceptable. Participants good pledge their paycheck proceeds as security.

2416
02:27:56,840 --> 02:27:59,000
Speaker 1: The airlines may also be interested in participating. Are you

2417
02:27:59,000 --> 02:28:01,320
Speaker 1: aware of any organization considering such a program. By the way,

2418
02:28:01,360 --> 02:28:04,520
Speaker 1: I watched the film Perfect Neighbor you discussed on one

2419
02:28:04,520 --> 02:28:06,400
Speaker 1: of your recent podcasts. It was very well done, and

2420
02:28:06,400 --> 02:28:09,560
Speaker 1: I was particularly impressed with how the police officers conducted themselves,

2421
02:28:09,640 --> 02:28:11,800
Speaker 1: very professional and competent in contrast with some of the

2422
02:28:11,800 --> 02:28:14,119
Speaker 1: ICE agents that have been showing on selected videos.

2423
02:28:14,120 --> 02:28:14,760
Speaker 3: Markro Man Arbor.

2424
02:28:15,560 --> 02:28:18,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, I'm by the way, I'm so glad you

2425
02:28:18,080 --> 02:28:20,440
Speaker 1: point that out in Perfect Neighbor. I think I think

2426
02:28:20,480 --> 02:28:24,600
Speaker 1: that to me, it is an endorsement of body cameras, right.

2427
02:28:24,959 --> 02:28:26,879
Speaker 1: I mean, if you can't tell me that doesn't change

2428
02:28:26,879 --> 02:28:32,280
Speaker 1: behavior or incentivize de escalation, I think it's pretty clear

2429
02:28:32,280 --> 02:28:34,080
Speaker 1: that it does. I mean that to me, and I

2430
02:28:34,120 --> 02:28:36,920
Speaker 1: know that wasn't that's not the intended message of that movie,

2431
02:28:36,959 --> 02:28:39,360
Speaker 1: but it's certainly one that I think for me it

2432
02:28:39,720 --> 02:28:42,320
Speaker 1: just right, couldn't make the movie without the body camera footage.

2433
02:28:42,320 --> 02:28:45,879
Speaker 1: And body camera footage didn't embarrass the police officers, and

2434
02:28:46,640 --> 02:28:49,240
Speaker 1: in some cases it may have. It certainly was an

2435
02:28:49,320 --> 02:28:53,560
Speaker 1: MRI on some you know, sort of historical thing stereotypes,

2436
02:28:53,640 --> 02:28:57,360
Speaker 1: things like that, but it also served as a good

2437
02:28:57,400 --> 02:29:03,119
Speaker 1: reminder that it works. Right, you know, what you're presenting

2438
02:29:03,200 --> 02:29:07,039
Speaker 1: is interesting. Can I just go another place? We probably

2439
02:29:07,040 --> 02:29:12,840
Speaker 1: ought to privatize this. You know, look, I think the

2440
02:29:12,920 --> 02:29:17,520
Speaker 1: fact that the government can just stop, we know they're

2441
02:29:17,560 --> 02:29:19,560
Speaker 1: going to pay this, and the fact that they just

2442
02:29:19,720 --> 02:29:23,840
Speaker 1: it just automatically stops, right, it is the system is

2443
02:29:25,160 --> 02:29:29,680
Speaker 1: you know, this is let me put it in another way.

2444
02:29:29,879 --> 02:29:34,080
Speaker 1: We wouldn't have these standoffs if the system said that

2445
02:29:34,160 --> 02:29:37,080
Speaker 1: the standoff could happen.

2446
02:29:37,160 --> 02:29:37,280
Speaker 2: Right.

2447
02:29:37,280 --> 02:29:40,240
Speaker 1: In some ways, the fact that you can stop funds

2448
02:29:40,520 --> 02:29:42,600
Speaker 1: is the feature, not the bug, and it should be

2449
02:29:42,680 --> 02:29:46,520
Speaker 1: a bug. I go back to I don't understand how

2450
02:29:46,520 --> 02:29:49,480
Speaker 1: the shutdowns are legal, Like we just we're in the United

2451
02:29:49,520 --> 02:29:52,480
Speaker 1: States government. The idea that we can just suddenly hold

2452
02:29:52,560 --> 02:29:55,840
Speaker 1: up spending money out of nowhere when we're you know,

2453
02:29:55,920 --> 02:29:59,360
Speaker 1: helping the entire global economy function, I mean that just

2454
02:29:59,400 --> 02:30:03,800
Speaker 1: seems da injurious and sort of a terrible idea. But

2455
02:30:03,879 --> 02:30:06,400
Speaker 1: if we're going to continue to sort of govern this

2456
02:30:06,440 --> 02:30:11,040
Speaker 1: way and allow this dysfunctional method to budgeting that Congress does,

2457
02:30:12,280 --> 02:30:17,840
Speaker 1: then with something as essential as our air travel, privatize

2458
02:30:17,959 --> 02:30:23,119
Speaker 1: tsa right. You know, government pays for it, but the funds,

2459
02:30:23,400 --> 02:30:27,640
Speaker 1: but basically they got to get reimbursed by the federal government.

2460
02:30:27,720 --> 02:30:30,120
Speaker 1: So that way then you would basically still have the

2461
02:30:30,160 --> 02:30:33,119
Speaker 1: same thing that you're describing. Right, the private entity continues

2462
02:30:33,160 --> 02:30:35,320
Speaker 1: to pay, They're not going to get reimbursed for a while,

2463
02:30:35,360 --> 02:30:38,320
Speaker 1: but they'd have a better They can withstand this better

2464
02:30:38,640 --> 02:30:42,040
Speaker 1: and they certainly you know, it would create it. So

2465
02:30:42,080 --> 02:30:48,119
Speaker 1: you would have functioning security agents getting paid without having

2466
02:30:48,320 --> 02:30:53,240
Speaker 1: for them to figure this out. Reliable security. You still

2467
02:30:53,280 --> 02:30:56,720
Speaker 1: have the same standards and everything, but if each you know,

2468
02:30:56,760 --> 02:30:59,560
Speaker 1: airport authority ought to run its own or privatize it

2469
02:30:59,560 --> 02:31:02,840
Speaker 1: in some way. Again, privatize it with the strict with

2470
02:31:02,920 --> 02:31:04,959
Speaker 1: the standards that we have. But there's no reason why

2471
02:31:04,959 --> 02:31:06,640
Speaker 1: you couldn't do that. If you wanted to make sure

2472
02:31:06,680 --> 02:31:09,959
Speaker 1: that they had to be labor union jobs, you can

2473
02:31:10,120 --> 02:31:14,599
Speaker 1: privatize and and make sure and mandate, you know, opportunity

2474
02:31:14,600 --> 02:31:17,119
Speaker 1: for labor unions or something like. So I think there,

2475
02:31:17,600 --> 02:31:20,400
Speaker 1: I know the political debate that would take place to

2476
02:31:20,480 --> 02:31:22,840
Speaker 1: do this and all this. I think you can accommodate

2477
02:31:22,879 --> 02:31:26,640
Speaker 1: that and not disrupt the public intentionally the way lawmakers

2478
02:31:26,640 --> 02:31:32,320
Speaker 1: are disrupting the public intentionally here. So we shall see.

2479
02:31:32,959 --> 02:31:38,720
Speaker 1: All right, I'm gonna call this an episode. I'm going

2480
02:31:38,840 --> 02:31:46,160
Speaker 1: to hold myself back from lamenting, you know, because it's

2481
02:31:46,320 --> 02:31:50,520
Speaker 1: it's baseball time, right, We've got baseball season, that's what's coming.

2482
02:31:51,760 --> 02:31:53,800
Speaker 1: First of all, I've got two fantasy drafts that I

2483
02:31:53,840 --> 02:31:58,360
Speaker 1: couldn't be less I couldn't be less prepared for. And

2484
02:31:58,400 --> 02:32:02,039
Speaker 1: the Nats just sent down dealing Cruise to triple A.

2485
02:32:02,120 --> 02:32:07,800
Speaker 1: Dylan Cruz, I hope will become more famous then right

2486
02:32:07,840 --> 02:32:09,920
Speaker 1: now for what he's famous for. What he's famous for us.

2487
02:32:09,959 --> 02:32:13,320
Speaker 1: He's the next guy picked after Paul Skins. Right the

2488
02:32:13,560 --> 02:32:17,240
Speaker 1: LSU tim meets went one two, and there was supposedly

2489
02:32:18,280 --> 02:32:22,680
Speaker 1: the pirates were debating between Cruise and Schemes. That's had

2490
02:32:22,680 --> 02:32:28,240
Speaker 1: the second pick. What if we could have had Schemes

2491
02:32:28,360 --> 02:32:29,840
Speaker 1: and not pitched him for two years.

2492
02:32:29,720 --> 02:32:31,760
Speaker 3: The way we did with Strausburg. No, but I digress.

2493
02:32:33,400 --> 02:32:35,440
Speaker 1: But I'm a little bummed out of that. But come on, Dylan,

2494
02:32:36,840 --> 02:32:40,280
Speaker 1: use this as motivation. I hope this is a temporary deal,

2495
02:32:40,320 --> 02:32:46,120
Speaker 1: but man, this never ending rebuild. This is going to

2496
02:32:46,120 --> 02:32:51,959
Speaker 1: be a rough year, and it's already feeling rougher thanks

2497
02:32:52,000 --> 02:32:53,520
Speaker 1: to the Dylan Cruiz news. But I said, I'm not

2498
02:32:53,520 --> 02:32:55,240
Speaker 1: going to go down that rabbit hole for now. He

2499
02:32:55,360 --> 02:32:57,360
Speaker 1: will be going down some baseball rabbit holes for you

2500
02:32:58,280 --> 02:33:00,440
Speaker 1: very very soon. But with that, we'll call it an

2501
02:33:00,440 --> 02:33:02,240
Speaker 1: episode and I'll see in forty eight hours and do

2502
02:33:03,320 --> 02:33:06,520
Speaker 1: in twenty four hours. Be on the lookout for a

2503
02:33:06,560 --> 02:33:10,560
Speaker 1: brand new podcast series that I'm going to be a

2504
02:33:10,600 --> 02:33:13,160
Speaker 1: part of with one of one of the great sports

2505
02:33:13,240 --> 02:33:17,400
Speaker 1: journalists out there. I look forward to sharing it all

2506
02:33:17,400 --> 02:33:21,280
Speaker 1: with you Tuesday and then Wednesday right here on this podcast.