WEBVTT - #484 Maggie Freleng with Ben Spencer 0:00:01.040 --> 0:00:04.960 In twenty seventeen, Barbara Bradley Haggerty was a veteran journalist 0:00:05.200 --> 0:00:07.760 looking for a story, so she called one of her 0:00:07.800 --> 0:00:10.560 favorite sources, a guy named Jim McCluskey. 0:00:11.000 --> 0:00:14.680 Jim McCluskey basically is a founder, the father of the 0:00:14.680 --> 0:00:17.919 modern innocence movement. Back in eighty three, he started the 0:00:17.960 --> 0:00:24.000 first organization that reinvestigated dubious convictions, way before the Innocence 0:00:24.040 --> 0:00:27.319 Project was even thought of. And so I called up 0:00:27.400 --> 0:00:30.360 Jim one day and looking for a story for The Atlantic, 0:00:31.000 --> 0:00:35.960 And I said, Jim, you've gotten like sixty five people 0:00:35.960 --> 0:00:41.400 out of prison. What's the story that haunts you? What 0:00:41.560 --> 0:00:44.440 keeps you up at night? And Jim said, oh, well, 0:00:44.479 --> 0:00:47.680 that's easy. Ben Spencer's story. There's not a day that 0:00:47.760 --> 0:00:49.440 goes by that I don't think about Ben. 0:00:55.040 --> 0:00:58.440 Ben Spencer was a young man who decades before, was 0:00:58.560 --> 0:01:02.880 convicted of a homicide. He always maintained he did not commit. 0:01:03.920 --> 0:01:06.880 Jim McCluskey and his team investigated Ben's case in the 0:01:06.920 --> 0:01:10.240 early two thousands. They put in hundreds of hours of 0:01:10.280 --> 0:01:13.000 work to find out if Ben was telling the truth. 0:01:13.400 --> 0:01:16.240 So Barb decided she was going to do the same. 0:01:17.400 --> 0:01:20.120 I just kind of put one foot in front of 0:01:20.160 --> 0:01:23.120 the other, just like everyone else, and just followed the 0:01:23.160 --> 0:01:28.440 next lead and kind of put little sands of evidence 0:01:28.640 --> 0:01:33.640 in a little pile, and at some point it was 0:01:33.680 --> 0:01:36.880 a pretty big mound, you know, it was. It was 0:01:36.920 --> 0:01:37.760 pretty compelling. 0:01:38.400 --> 0:01:41.720 Do you find yourself more than just a journalist? 0:01:41.760 --> 0:01:41.920 Now? 0:01:41.959 --> 0:01:44.000 Do you think you're an activist? 0:01:44.240 --> 0:01:46.880 You know? I don't think, Okay, how do I put this? 0:01:47.720 --> 0:01:51.920 I'm an activist for Ben because I think he's innocent 0:01:52.320 --> 0:01:56.600 and I think the truth does need to come out. 0:01:57.320 --> 0:02:01.240 After years of research and door knocking, Barb feels like 0:02:01.480 --> 0:02:03.400 she got to the truth of the matter. 0:02:03.640 --> 0:02:06.640 This guy could not have killed someone in cold blood. 0:02:06.440 --> 0:02:10.760 And Barb thinks she knows who did, but it wasn't Ben. 0:02:11.560 --> 0:02:14.520 My name is Benjamin Spencer. I'm a native of Dallas, 0:02:14.600 --> 0:02:18.399 and I was wrongfully incarcerated for thirty four years. 0:02:19.040 --> 0:02:23.799 This is wrongful conviction with Maggie Freeling today, Ben Spencer. 0:02:31.320 --> 0:02:34.960 Ben Spencer was born December twentieth, nineteen sixty four, to 0:02:35.080 --> 0:02:41.560 Benjamin and Lucille Spencer in Dallas, Texas. He's one of 0:02:41.600 --> 0:02:44.280 five kids, right in the middle, and he grew up 0:02:44.360 --> 0:02:46.680 in a religious and strict household. 0:02:47.080 --> 0:02:49.760 My mother She was the disciplinarian in the family, and 0:02:49.840 --> 0:02:53.000 so if we ever did something like didn't clean the 0:02:53.000 --> 0:02:55.040 house like we was posed to, my dad would always 0:02:55.040 --> 0:02:57.280 tell us he's going to tell our mom if we 0:02:57.320 --> 0:02:59.400 didn't do it and we didn't want to. 0:03:00.360 --> 0:03:02.760 Uh, I guess, be victims of her rat. 0:03:03.960 --> 0:03:05.040 What would that look like? 0:03:05.200 --> 0:03:09.119 Ooh terrible. We used to get whoopings. 0:03:09.120 --> 0:03:11.680 I mean, wasn't a such thing as punishment or standing 0:03:11.680 --> 0:03:14.240 in the corner or you don't get to. 0:03:14.160 --> 0:03:15.040 Go outside stuff. 0:03:15.080 --> 0:03:18.000 You would probably get whooped and not get to go outside. 0:03:18.080 --> 0:03:20.680 So yeah, see, you guys were all pretty in line, 0:03:20.800 --> 0:03:24.400 good kids. Still, Ben was a playful kid. 0:03:24.680 --> 0:03:28.200 I was just a middle child, and I guess I 0:03:28.280 --> 0:03:30.160 was the one that always got into stuff. 0:03:30.160 --> 0:03:32.400 I guess, but like, what does that mean? What kind 0:03:32.400 --> 0:03:32.840 of stuff? 0:03:33.560 --> 0:03:36.040 I've never watched Mary Poppins, but I remember the scene 0:03:36.040 --> 0:03:39.280 where she would come down with the umbrella. So I 0:03:39.280 --> 0:03:42.800 would get to the highest point of our garage and 0:03:43.200 --> 0:03:46.200 jump off with the umbrella one time and bust my head, 0:03:47.160 --> 0:03:48.200 you know, stuff Like I was. 0:03:48.160 --> 0:03:50.360 Adventurous like that, and he was curious. 0:03:50.720 --> 0:03:54.200 I used to like to know how things operated, like 0:03:54.240 --> 0:03:56.720 if I got a toy or car or something, I 0:03:56.760 --> 0:03:58.960 was always interested and curious as to how it was 0:03:59.000 --> 0:04:00.280 put together, so I would take. 0:04:00.200 --> 0:04:02.720 A loose and put it back together. 0:04:04.240 --> 0:04:07.200 He was handy, and into his teens, Ben put those 0:04:07.200 --> 0:04:10.960 skills to work at a cabinet factory, making five dollars 0:04:11.000 --> 0:04:11.400 an hour. 0:04:11.680 --> 0:04:14.120 I put in a lot of overtime, so Wednesday, around 0:04:14.160 --> 0:04:17.000 about eleven o'clock, I would already have forty hours in. 0:04:17.320 --> 0:04:21.240 And Ben liked spending that overtime money on nice clothes. 0:04:21.200 --> 0:04:24.680 A Ralph Lawn, Polo, Georgia Omiani, stuff like that. So 0:04:25.000 --> 0:04:26.360 I used to like to dress nice. 0:04:26.520 --> 0:04:29.000 He liked shopping at Neiman Marcus. 0:04:28.600 --> 0:04:31.800 And my moms used to get on me about the 0:04:31.839 --> 0:04:33.800 money I would spend on one shirt. She was like, 0:04:33.839 --> 0:04:36.039 you could buy several outfits for what you pay for 0:04:36.040 --> 0:04:37.720 that one shirt. I'm like, well, whose money is this 0:04:37.839 --> 0:04:38.480 miney yours? 0:04:38.800 --> 0:04:40.599 Ben says he'd bring a change of clothes to the 0:04:40.600 --> 0:04:44.280 club just in case anyone else had the same shirt on. 0:04:45.000 --> 0:04:47.720 Decades later, sitting in front of me, I can tell 0:04:47.760 --> 0:04:51.599 you this man is still a fashionista. He's soft spoken, 0:04:52.160 --> 0:04:55.760 but his looks do the talking. He's wearing a plaid 0:04:55.800 --> 0:04:57.280 suit in dark grays and. 0:04:57.200 --> 0:04:59.800 Purples, white heel figure shirt and. 0:05:00.279 --> 0:05:03.839 The tie a paisley tie with hints of bronze and 0:05:03.880 --> 0:05:07.320 a gold Michael Kore's watch on his left wrist. Did 0:05:07.320 --> 0:05:08.040 you pick this up? 0:05:08.400 --> 0:05:08.760 I did? 0:05:09.160 --> 0:05:12.839 And on top of style. Ben Spencer is tall six', 0:05:13.000 --> 0:05:17.080 four dark and, handsome and one day in nineteen eighty, 0:05:17.080 --> 0:05:19.359 three while he was out for some pizza with, Friends 0:05:20.000 --> 0:05:22.719 ben's good looks caught the attention of a. 0:05:22.760 --> 0:05:28.960 Girl i'm sitting and eating a piece of waiting on my, 0:05:29.000 --> 0:05:32.400 friend and this girl walks over to the table and 0:05:32.520 --> 0:05:36.240 she tells me that her friend likes me and she 0:05:36.320 --> 0:05:37.000 wants you to have a. 0:05:37.080 --> 0:05:42.320 Number that friend Was Deborah child's also tall and pretty and. 0:05:42.360 --> 0:05:45.839 GOOD i used to smoke, WEED i used to Drink 0:05:46.720 --> 0:05:48.560 and one of the THINGS i liked About deborah she 0:05:48.640 --> 0:05:49.919 wasn't doing any of the THINGS i was. 0:05:49.960 --> 0:05:51.359 Doing she came from a Good. 0:05:51.400 --> 0:05:54.599 And what's strange is we grew up around the corner 0:05:54.640 --> 0:05:59.640 from each, OTHER i mean literally less maybe a block 0:05:59.680 --> 0:06:02.440 away from each, other and we had never met, wow 0:06:02.800 --> 0:06:04.200 up until we was eighteen years. 0:06:04.240 --> 0:06:07.560 Old she Was ben's first real, girlfriend and she'd soon 0:06:07.920 --> 0:06:11.320 become the mother of his. Child and what did your 0:06:11.320 --> 0:06:14.640 mom think about the. Pregnancy, oh she was. 0:06:14.720 --> 0:06:17.800 Excited, yeah my mother really Liked deborah a. 0:06:17.839 --> 0:06:22.800 Lot my mother didn't allow you to have a girlfriend 0:06:23.680 --> 0:06:27.960 or boyfriend living in her house. 0:06:29.600 --> 0:06:31.839 While you weren't. Married And deborah was the. 0:06:31.880 --> 0:06:35.800 First, Actually deborah AND i are the only two who 0:06:35.839 --> 0:06:36.400 got away with. 0:06:36.440 --> 0:06:38.000 That my oldest brother didn't get away with. 0:06:38.080 --> 0:06:42.320 It my oldest, sister younger, sister youngest, brother none of 0:06:42.360 --> 0:06:44.040 them got away with, that but we. 0:06:44.120 --> 0:06:47.520 Did and soon, after at twenty two years, old he 0:06:47.560 --> 0:06:49.400 Asked deborah's dad for her hand in. 0:06:49.520 --> 0:06:52.680 Marriage her dad used to be at this garage all 0:06:52.720 --> 0:06:55.680 the time with this guy who fixed, cars and SO 0:06:55.720 --> 0:06:59.479 i went up there AND i was, like, ms, CHILD 0:06:59.520 --> 0:06:59.840 i talk to. 0:06:59.880 --> 0:07:02.040 You he was, like, yeah what is it. 0:07:02.080 --> 0:07:04.200 BEING i was, like you, KNOW i would like to 0:07:04.240 --> 0:07:07.599 marry your, daughter you, know if you would give me. 0:07:07.640 --> 0:07:11.400 Permission and he was, like, oh of, course being, sure you. 0:07:11.280 --> 0:07:12.360 Can marry my, daughter no. 0:07:12.440 --> 0:07:12.720 Question. 0:07:12.880 --> 0:07:14.480 Yeah he was, like you're gonna take care of, him? 0:07:14.520 --> 0:07:16.520 RIGHT i, said, yes, Sir i'm going to take care of. 0:07:16.640 --> 0:07:18.840 Him and SO i promised HIM i will take care of. 0:07:18.920 --> 0:07:24.000 Him But ben wouldn't be able to keep his. 0:07:24.040 --> 0:07:29.640 Promise and that's one of the most unfortunate things, is 0:07:30.600 --> 0:07:33.000 we got, married and of COURSE i wasn't able to 0:07:33.080 --> 0:07:36.120 fulfill WHAT i had told HIM i would. 0:07:36.160 --> 0:07:41.600 Do just two months after the, wedding their lives came crumbling. 0:07:41.680 --> 0:07:49.440 Down march twenty, second nineteen eighty seven started normal For Ben. 0:07:49.480 --> 0:07:52.240 Spencer what do you remember that? 0:07:52.400 --> 0:07:54.640 Day pretty much the whole, day the entire. 0:07:54.720 --> 0:07:57.960 Day early in the, day he And deborah visited, family 0:07:58.360 --> 0:08:00.800 like they did every. Weekend that was. 0:08:00.960 --> 0:08:04.480 Our routine For saturdays And. Sundays her mother AND i 0:08:04.560 --> 0:08:08.720 were Playing domino's and, CARDS i think it was. 0:08:08.720 --> 0:08:12.960 Cards and like he often, Did ben Teased deborah's older, Sister. 0:08:13.320 --> 0:08:16.360 Sissy sis AND i had this relationship where we would tease. 0:08:16.160 --> 0:08:19.000 Each, other but this Time ben may have taken it 0:08:19.080 --> 0:08:21.880 too far And deborah wasn't having. 0:08:21.920 --> 0:08:26.080 It deborah immediately just raised off the floor like she 0:08:26.160 --> 0:08:28.880 had springs on and she was, Like i'm ready to, 0:08:28.920 --> 0:08:31.040 go And i'm, like you ready to? Go she was, like, 0:08:31.120 --> 0:08:33.920 Yeah i'm ready to. Go AND i could tell she's 0:08:34.040 --> 0:08:36.160 upset about. SOMETHING i don't know what she's upset, about 0:08:36.160 --> 0:08:39.000 but she's. Upset and so she was, like you need 0:08:39.040 --> 0:08:40.920 to come home before you get. Left and so we 0:08:41.040 --> 0:08:43.080 get halfway home And she was, like you didn't have 0:08:43.120 --> 0:08:43.720 to say that to. 0:08:43.760 --> 0:08:46.160 HER i was, like that's what you're upset. ABOUT i, 0:08:46.160 --> 0:08:47.800 said you, Know i'd be teasing playing With. 0:08:47.840 --> 0:08:51.400 Sissy But deborah was, mad and after they got, Home 0:08:51.800 --> 0:08:54.320 ben decided to let her cool, off so we left 0:08:54.320 --> 0:08:57.280 the house In deborah's Red thunderbird and went to see some. 0:08:57.320 --> 0:09:00.280 Friends ben says it was still early in the afternoon 0:09:00.679 --> 0:09:03.240 and he hung out all day playing chess and. Cards 0:09:03.760 --> 0:09:06.440 then in the, Evening ben attempted to make his way 0:09:06.480 --> 0:09:06.920 home THAT. 0:09:06.960 --> 0:09:09.520 I had stopped and got some chicken from Both, deborah but. 0:09:09.520 --> 0:09:12.200 His plans to go home got derailed when he ran 0:09:12.200 --> 0:09:15.640 into some, friends including a track star and high school 0:09:15.679 --> 0:09:20.960 senior Named. Christy christy had her eyes set On, ben 0:09:21.400 --> 0:09:26.199 tall and, handsome And ben welcomed the attention From, christy 0:09:26.679 --> 0:09:29.960 so they hung out all evening and eventually got in 0:09:30.040 --> 0:09:33.160 the Red thunderbird and drove to a nearby, park where 0:09:33.200 --> 0:09:36.319 they stayed until after, midnight close to. 0:09:36.280 --> 0:09:39.040 One, o'clock AND i noticed the time AND i was, like, 0:09:39.160 --> 0:09:41.000 well MAYBE i should take you. HOME i got to 0:09:41.040 --> 0:09:43.680 get up in the morning take my wife to, work 0:09:44.160 --> 0:09:46.880 and she, said, well, YEAH i gotta go to school 0:09:47.200 --> 0:09:49.520 for practice in the morning because he ran, track. 0:09:49.400 --> 0:09:52.680 So he went home and that was. That ben says 0:09:52.720 --> 0:09:55.840 he'd been faithful To deborah up until that. Point he 0:09:55.880 --> 0:09:58.280 says it was a one night. Stand in the heat 0:09:58.360 --> 0:10:01.240 of the, argument he'd have to work up the courage 0:10:01.240 --> 0:10:04.360 to Tell, deborah And ben went to, bed not knowing 0:10:04.880 --> 0:10:08.920 that his problems would soon go far beyond cheating on his. 0:10:08.960 --> 0:10:16.120 Wife the next, Day ben was on his way to 0:10:16.160 --> 0:10:18.080 work when a friend stopped him and. 0:10:18.080 --> 0:10:19.880 He was, like, man did you hear about what happened last? 0:10:19.960 --> 0:10:20.719 NIGHT i was, Like, noah what's? 0:10:20.760 --> 0:10:25.160 That he, Said, man it's police everywhere in the neighborhood last. 0:10:25.240 --> 0:10:27.720 NIGHT i, said what? Happened he, said they found some 0:10:27.800 --> 0:10:30.439 white guy out there On puget and they found two 0:10:30.480 --> 0:10:34.720 stolen cars in the, alley one in this, alley one another. 0:10:34.760 --> 0:10:37.480 ALLEY i was, like, okay he, said, oh, man police 0:10:37.559 --> 0:10:39.040 was hot last. NIGHT i, said, well, NAH i heard 0:10:39.080 --> 0:10:41.120 anything about. IT i, said, well let me go on 0:10:41.160 --> 0:10:42.679 and go CAUSE i got to get to. Work SO 0:10:43.040 --> 0:10:45.520 i left and that WAS i, mean that was pretty 0:10:45.600 --> 0:10:47.679 much ALL i had learned that they had found a 0:10:47.720 --> 0:10:48.960 white guy in the. 0:10:48.960 --> 0:10:50.199 Neighborhood and it. 0:10:50.160 --> 0:10:52.120 Was just a few days later that you were, arrested, 0:10:52.520 --> 0:10:55.560 Right did you have any inkling that was going to? Happen? 0:10:55.960 --> 0:11:02.880 None can you tell me about the? Crime what happened that? 0:11:03.040 --> 0:11:04.000 Night who was Jeff? 0:11:04.040 --> 0:11:04.280 Young? 0:11:05.160 --> 0:11:10.600 So Jeffrey young was thirty three years, old, white married 0:11:10.600 --> 0:11:14.080 to his high school, sweetheart the father of three children 0:11:14.200 --> 0:11:14.840 under ten years. 0:11:14.840 --> 0:11:17.640 Old this Is barbara, Again she goes By. 0:11:17.679 --> 0:11:22.880 BARB i worked FOR npr for nineteen years and ended 0:11:22.960 --> 0:11:25.680 up doing a story About Ben spencer FOR npr but 0:11:25.720 --> 0:11:27.840 also For The, atlantic Where i'm a contributing. 0:11:27.840 --> 0:11:31.319 Writer LIKE i, Said barb first heard Of ben in twenty, 0:11:31.360 --> 0:11:34.960 seventeen and she has spent hundreds of hours working on 0:11:35.160 --> 0:11:39.200 and interviewing key people in this. Case her journey is 0:11:39.280 --> 0:11:43.360 documented in her latest, Book Bringing Ben. Home in, it 0:11:43.760 --> 0:11:47.640 she also tries to answer what happened To Jeffrey, young 0:11:48.040 --> 0:11:50.880 the man who was killed that? Night in nineteen eighty, 0:11:50.920 --> 0:11:51.679 Seven he. 0:11:52.480 --> 0:11:55.760 Worked for a clothing import. Company he was actually about 0:11:55.800 --> 0:11:58.880 to become, president and On sunday nights he would go 0:11:59.000 --> 0:12:02.360 in to work because many of his clients see people 0:12:02.440 --> 0:12:04.880 imported from were In. Asia so it was There monday. 0:12:04.880 --> 0:12:08.080 Morning barb, Says jeffrey was alone at the warehouse waiting 0:12:08.120 --> 0:12:08.679 to get on his. 0:12:08.679 --> 0:12:12.599 Computer back, then it was the ancient days of, computers 0:12:12.600 --> 0:12:15.760 and so he had to basically ask permission to get 0:12:15.760 --> 0:12:18.160 on his computer. System and he called up the guy 0:12:18.160 --> 0:12:21.120 who handled the computer, systems and the guy, said we're 0:12:21.120 --> 0:12:24.079 doing an. Update you can't get on for another. Hour 0:12:24.240 --> 0:12:28.320 i'll call you when you can get. On so a 0:12:28.360 --> 0:12:31.400 few minutes go, by an hour goes, by and the 0:12:31.480 --> 0:12:36.480 guy Calls Jeffrey, young and it rings and rings and, 0:12:36.520 --> 0:12:40.480 rings and he calls back several. Times and what police 0:12:40.559 --> 0:12:43.800 now believe is that was the time When Jeffrey young 0:12:43.880 --> 0:12:44.120 was being. 0:12:44.120 --> 0:12:47.640 Assaulted the theory is that two people waited in the 0:12:47.679 --> 0:12:51.360 parking lot Where JEFFREY'S bmw was parked and attacked him 0:12:51.559 --> 0:12:54.400 sometime around ten. Pm they hit. 0:12:54.280 --> 0:12:56.960 Him on the head with a blunt, object cracking his 0:12:57.000 --> 0:13:00.760 skull in five. Places they picked him, Up they walked 0:13:00.760 --> 0:13:03.160 to THE, bmw they had the, Keys they opened the, 0:13:03.200 --> 0:13:06.800 trunk they put him in THE, bmw slammed the, door 0:13:07.120 --> 0:13:10.280 and then they. Drive they drive across The Trinity river 0:13:10.840 --> 0:13:15.600 Into West ellis and at some point Somehow Jeffrey young 0:13:15.679 --> 0:13:18.960 there was a little latch in the trunk And Jeffrey 0:13:19.000 --> 0:13:22.560 young managed to get out and fall On Puget, street 0:13:23.400 --> 0:13:26.720 and the perpetrators looked, back saw he was on the, street, 0:13:27.480 --> 0:13:32.280 panicked drove THE bmw into the alley, nearby and then ran. 0:13:32.320 --> 0:13:37.080 Away they got away with His sako, watch wedding, ring 0:13:37.280 --> 0:13:41.480 and PORTABLE tv radio and they Left Jeffrey young dying 0:13:41.720 --> 0:13:41.960 on the. 0:13:42.000 --> 0:13:49.920 Street and there he lay, shaking you, know, bleeding as 0:13:49.960 --> 0:13:52.400 a small crowd gathered around. 0:13:52.480 --> 0:13:57.480 Him when the paramedics, Arrived Jeffrey young was still. Alive 0:13:57.800 --> 0:14:00.640 they rushed him to the hospital and police questioned a few, 0:14:00.679 --> 0:14:05.920 witnesses thinking they were just investigating a. Robbery barb says 0:14:05.960 --> 0:14:08.120 they got a description of someone who looked like a 0:14:08.160 --> 0:14:10.319 guy Named Van Mitchell. 0:14:10.480 --> 0:14:15.400 Spencer, unfortunately they didn't get any names or phone, numbers 0:14:15.400 --> 0:14:17.200 so they could never go back and find them as. 0:14:17.240 --> 0:14:21.600 Witnesses then the case took a. Turn Jeffrey young succumbed 0:14:21.640 --> 0:14:24.880 to his injuries and died in the hospital early the next, 0:14:24.920 --> 0:14:29.080 morning and shortly after a powerful man Named Ross perrot 0:14:29.640 --> 0:14:32.840 stepped in to. Help Ross preaux at that point was 0:14:32.960 --> 0:14:36.840 probably one of the most influential people In. Texas he 0:14:36.920 --> 0:14:41.120 was self made billionaire about to run for president. 0:14:41.720 --> 0:14:42.600 Good After nan. 0:14:44.280 --> 0:14:47.400 The volunteers in all fifty states have asked Made iran 0:14:47.480 --> 0:14:50.960 as candidate For priends of The United, states. 0:14:50.320 --> 0:14:52.920 And one of his top executives was the father of the. 0:14:53.000 --> 0:14:57.000 Victim and, suddenly you, know this robbery investigation became a murder. 0:14:57.040 --> 0:15:01.240 Investigation perrot offered a twenty five one thousand dollars reward 0:15:01.640 --> 0:15:05.320 for any information leading to the arrest and indictment of 0:15:05.360 --> 0:15:08.000 the killer or, killers. 0:15:07.640 --> 0:15:09.840 And people started coming out. 0:15:09.760 --> 0:15:13.600 Of the, woodwork people like forty two year Old Gladys. 0:15:13.640 --> 0:15:18.440 Oliver she'd originally told police she hadn't seen, anything but 0:15:18.480 --> 0:15:21.760 a few days later she called Crime, stoppers an organization 0:15:21.920 --> 0:15:25.720 that offers rewards for information that leads to an. Arrest 0:15:26.400 --> 0:15:29.520 oliver told them that from her bedroom window that, night 0:15:30.040 --> 0:15:33.240 she'd seen two black men she knew from the. Neighborhood 0:15:33.600 --> 0:15:36.160 one was a shorter man by the name Of Robert, 0:15:36.240 --> 0:15:40.880 mitchell the other was an acquaintance of her, Son's Benjamin. 0:15:40.920 --> 0:15:45.120 Spencer she suggested that they talked to a couple of 0:15:45.160 --> 0:15:47.080 other people and gave the name Of Jimmy. 0:15:47.120 --> 0:15:50.640 Cotton Jimmy cotton described the same sequence of events As 0:15:50.640 --> 0:15:54.640 Gladys oliver, did but added that he'd Seen ben jump 0:15:54.720 --> 0:15:58.920 over a fence and get into a red. Thunderbird Jesse 0:15:59.040 --> 0:16:02.680 brisino was the lead, detective and just four days After 0:16:02.760 --> 0:16:08.200 Jeffrey young's, killing based on eyewitness testimony, Alone brisino was 0:16:08.280 --> 0:16:20.680 convinced he had his. Purpse On march twenty, sixth nineteen eighty, 0:16:20.720 --> 0:16:24.280 Seven Ben spencer was home with a headache while waiting 0:16:24.280 --> 0:16:26.920 for his Friend charles to swing. By he figured he'd 0:16:26.920 --> 0:16:28.880 take some tyle and all and nap off the. 0:16:28.920 --> 0:16:33.400 MIGRAINE i hear this beating on the, door and WHEN 0:16:33.400 --> 0:16:35.360 i wake, UP i noticed on the clock it's two, 0:16:35.520 --> 0:16:38.840 thirty SO i, figured, oh this must Be. Charles but 0:16:39.000 --> 0:16:41.240 on the way to the front, DOOR i could see 0:16:41.280 --> 0:16:43.360 out the front window that there was police cars out. 0:16:43.400 --> 0:16:48.080 Front ben opens the door and sees an officer who, asks. 0:16:47.800 --> 0:16:48.320 Do you have ANY? 0:16:48.360 --> 0:16:50.760 ID i said, Sure i'll put reach in my, pocket 0:16:50.800 --> 0:16:53.400 put out my hand in MY. Id he, said, turn 0:16:53.800 --> 0:16:55.640 turn and put your hands on the will you under? 0:16:55.640 --> 0:16:56.400 WRIST i, say under? 0:16:56.480 --> 0:16:56.800 Rest for? 0:16:56.840 --> 0:17:02.560 What so he puts me in the car and turns 0:17:02.960 --> 0:17:04.720 over and looks over the back of the seat and he, 0:17:04.760 --> 0:17:08.359 said you know the white guy they found the street 0:17:08.400 --> 0:17:10.760 the other? DAY i, SAID i heard about. It he, 0:17:10.800 --> 0:17:13.200 said that's what you're under the rest for his. MURDER i, said, 0:17:13.240 --> 0:17:14.040 man you're making a. 0:17:14.080 --> 0:17:18.760 Mistake then was, shocked but he figured he'd cooperate and 0:17:18.840 --> 0:17:20.080 get this all sorted. 0:17:20.119 --> 0:17:22.240 Out and So i'm thinking that the truth is going to, 0:17:22.320 --> 0:17:25.240 prevail And i'm telling him WHAT i had did that. 0:17:25.359 --> 0:17:28.720 DAY i, mean from morning to, Night i'm telling him 0:17:28.720 --> 0:17:31.960 WHAT i. Did of, COURSE i guess it fell on 0:17:32.040 --> 0:17:34.840 deaf ears BECAUSE i was arrested and charged with this. 0:17:34.960 --> 0:17:39.600 Crime so you never left jail that. Day do you 0:17:39.640 --> 0:17:41.919 remember the first time you spoke To deborah after you were. 0:17:41.960 --> 0:17:44.640 ARRESTING i Called deborah that evening. 0:17:46.160 --> 0:17:47.800 To let her KNOW i was in, Jail and of 0:17:47.840 --> 0:17:50.920 course my main concern was telling her THAT i didn't 0:17:50.960 --> 0:17:53.919 commit this, offense AND i need to tell you something 0:17:54.000 --> 0:17:55.200 because you're. 0:17:55.000 --> 0:17:55.639 Going to find. 0:17:55.640 --> 0:18:00.080 Out and SO i began to tell her About. CHRISTY i, 0:18:00.119 --> 0:18:01.359 said you, KNOW i want to be the one to 0:18:01.359 --> 0:18:03.520 tell you that because you're going to find, out because 0:18:03.880 --> 0:18:05.520 that's WHY i was with the night this offense. 0:18:05.600 --> 0:18:08.600 Happened what are the chances that you get arrested for 0:18:08.720 --> 0:18:12.040 something you didn't do on a night that you have an, 0:18:12.080 --> 0:18:16.879 alibi but it's for something not. Great also right. 0:18:17.119 --> 0:18:19.439 At that, time my marriage was only two months, oh 0:18:20.320 --> 0:18:24.760 AND i definitely wasn't SOMETHING i wanted to have to 0:18:24.800 --> 0:18:25.600 share with her or. 0:18:25.560 --> 0:18:27.840 Tell, Her but he had to if he was going 0:18:27.880 --> 0:18:30.439 to get out of, this he had to give an, 0:18:30.520 --> 0:18:35.479 alibi and his alibi Was. Christie then figured the police 0:18:35.480 --> 0:18:38.760 would do their, job talk To, christy and everything would 0:18:38.760 --> 0:18:39.280 be squared. 0:18:39.320 --> 0:18:43.120 Away for some, reason they just ignored the fact That 0:18:43.800 --> 0:18:47.440 christy AND i were. Together it didn't fit into their 0:18:47.480 --> 0:18:50.000 scheme of what they believe. Happened so of course she 0:18:50.119 --> 0:18:52.399 was ignored and no one wanted. 0:18:52.400 --> 0:18:58.159 Her and by this investigation was a mess from start to. 0:18:58.200 --> 0:19:03.400 Finish they didn't preserve the crime too or take. 0:19:03.440 --> 0:19:06.479 Photos they just drove the car. Off police Took Jeffrey 0:19:06.520 --> 0:19:10.159 YOUNG'S bmw to the police, lot but that morning. 0:19:10.080 --> 0:19:14.080 They opened the police lot up to people who wanted 0:19:14.080 --> 0:19:18.160 to buy abandoned. Cars oh my, gosh and so anyone 0:19:18.200 --> 0:19:19.080 could have touched that. 0:19:19.080 --> 0:19:22.400 Car plus it had rained before they can do any thorough. 0:19:22.480 --> 0:19:26.680 Fingerprinting they were able to recover some finger and palm, 0:19:26.760 --> 0:19:30.359 prints but none Matched ben Or Robert. 0:19:30.359 --> 0:19:33.320 MITCHELL i don't know what they were, thinking. Honestly and 0:19:33.359 --> 0:19:37.119 then the minute they Got Gladys oliver and a couple 0:19:37.119 --> 0:19:43.280 of people to say they Saw Ben. Spencer essentially the investigation. 0:19:43.400 --> 0:19:46.640 Stopped that was. It twenty two year Old Ben, spencer 0:19:46.960 --> 0:19:49.760 as soon to be, father with no history of violent, 0:19:49.800 --> 0:19:56.639 crime was charged with. Murder he went to trial just months, 0:19:56.680 --> 0:20:03.399 later On october twenty, sixth nineteen eighty. Seven ben And 0:20:03.480 --> 0:20:07.679 Robert mitchell were tried. Separately the prosecutor In ben's case 0:20:07.840 --> 0:20:11.399 Was Jeffrey. Hines since no evidence was found in the, 0:20:11.480 --> 0:20:18.240 killing he relied on the witness testimony. Alone Gladys oliver 0:20:18.359 --> 0:20:21.919 And Jimmy cotton stuck to their, stories and the prosecution 0:20:22.359 --> 0:20:26.479 bolstered their case with another star, witness a jailhouse snitch 0:20:26.840 --> 0:20:30.800 Named Danny, edwards who swore That ben told him he 0:20:30.920 --> 0:20:36.680 had Killed. Jeffrey ben's, Attorney Frank, jackson relied almost entirely 0:20:36.800 --> 0:20:41.080 On ben's alibi On, christy but the police tried to discredit. 0:20:41.119 --> 0:20:44.520 Her they had previously shown her a picture which she 0:20:44.640 --> 0:20:46.160 did not identify As. 0:20:46.200 --> 0:20:49.680 Ben she says that the picture they showed her did 0:20:49.720 --> 0:20:53.000 not look like. Me she said it was a picture 0:20:53.000 --> 0:20:54.879 that looked like it was taken real, close where you 0:20:54.880 --> 0:20:57.719 couldn't really make out who the person was because it 0:20:57.760 --> 0:20:59.399 was so taken so close. 0:20:59.160 --> 0:21:00.200 What the picture, Was, YES. 0:21:01.840 --> 0:21:04.040 I don't and we have not been able to find the. 0:21:04.080 --> 0:21:08.199 PICTURE i went and talked To christie about it and she, 0:21:08.320 --> 0:21:10.000 SAID i KNOW i was With ben that. 0:21:10.119 --> 0:21:10.960 NIGHT i mean he. 0:21:11.080 --> 0:21:14.800 Couldn't the math is such that he could not have 0:21:15.520 --> 0:21:18.680 gone and Killed Jeffrey young and come back and spend 0:21:18.720 --> 0:21:19.240 any time with. 0:21:19.320 --> 0:21:22.640 Me but the jury didn't believe. Her ben was convicted 0:21:23.040 --> 0:21:26.560 and later sentenced to thirty five years for the murder 0:21:26.720 --> 0:21:31.120 Of Jeffrey, young but that conviction would be thrown. 0:21:31.200 --> 0:21:34.560 Out we can Thank Bruce, anton who was the co 0:21:34.760 --> 0:21:38.240