Speaker 1: An affirmation that I just say because I'm trying to
Speaker 1: make myself feel better is different than when I'm saying
Speaker 1: something authentically because I believe it. Welcome to the one
Speaker 1: you feed Throughout time, great thinkers have recognized the importance
Speaker 1: of the thoughts we have, quotes like garbage in, garbage out,
Speaker 1: or you are what you think ring true, and yet
Speaker 1: for many of us, our thoughts don't strengthen or empower us.
Speaker 1: We tend toward negativity, self pity, jealousy, or fear. We
Speaker 1: see what we don't have instead of what we do.
Speaker 1: We think things that hold us back and dampen our spirit.
Speaker 1: But it's not just about thinking our actions matter. It
Speaker 1: takes conscious, consistent, and creative effort to make a life
Speaker 1: worth living. This podcast is about how other people keep
Speaker 1: themselves moving in the right direction, how they feed their
Speaker 1: good wolf m HM. Christine Hassler left her successful job
Speaker 1: as a Hollywood agent at twenty five years old to
Speaker 1: pursue a life she could be passionate about, but it
Speaker 1: did not come easily. After being inspired by her own
Speaker 1: unexpected challenges and experiences, she realized her journey was indeed
Speaker 1: her destination. In two thousand five, she wrote the first
Speaker 1: guide book written exclusively for young women, entitled twenty Something
Speaker 1: twenty Everything. Her newest book is Expectation, Hangover, Overcoming Disappointment
Speaker 1: and Work, Love and Life. It's a guide book for
Speaker 1: how to treat disappointment on the emotional, mental, behavioral, and
Speaker 1: spiritual levels. Today we discussed her challenges with divorce, depression,
Speaker 1: and disappointment and how to carry on and thrive in
Speaker 1: the face of challenges. Oh and before we start the interview.
Speaker 1: On October, Eric will be sending out the first lesson
Speaker 1: in a four part series based on Stephen Cuvey's classic book,
Speaker 1: The Seven Habits of Highly Effective People. Cuvey's book is
Speaker 1: widely considered a masterpiece of wisdom, and Eric will be
Speaker 1: touching on the main points and how to incorporate them
Speaker 1: into your life. It's free, but you do have to
Speaker 1: be subscribed to the mailing list. Go to one new
Speaker 1: feed dot net slash email and sign up in the
Speaker 1: box to the right. Here's the interview. Hi Christine, welcome
Speaker 1: to the show. I'm so happy to be here. Thanks
Speaker 1: for having me. Eric, thank you for coming on. So
Speaker 1: we're going to talk about your new book, um Expectation, Hangover,
Speaker 1: which I sent you an email earlier where I said
Speaker 1: I was just sort of getting through the book. I was,
Speaker 1: I was delayed in getting to it, so I've been
Speaker 1: reading a lot of it, and this morning I was
Speaker 1: just like, this sounds so like your way of thinking
Speaker 1: about things, sounds so much like the way I approached
Speaker 1: the world. So I was really, there are a lot
Speaker 1: of things in it that were pretty striking to me.
Speaker 1: So I'm looking forward to to talking about those cool
Speaker 1: me too. So our show is called The One You Feed,
Speaker 1: and it's based on the parable of Two Wolves, where
Speaker 1: there's a grandfather who's talking with his grandson and he says,
Speaker 1: in life, there are two wolves inside of us. One
Speaker 1: is a good wolf, which represents things like kindness and
Speaker 1: bravery and love, and the other is a bad wolf,
Speaker 1: which represents things like greed and hatred and fear. And
Speaker 1: the grandson stops and he thinks about it for a second.
Speaker 1: He looks up at his grandfather and he says, well, grandfather,
Speaker 1: which one wins? And the grandfather says, the one you feed.
Speaker 1: So I'd like to start off by asking you what
Speaker 1: that parable means to you in your life and in
Speaker 1: the work that you do. First, I love that parable.
Speaker 1: It's one of my my very favorites. And I love
Speaker 1: that we're starting there because I think it gives us
Speaker 1: a great context. And what comes to me first is,
Speaker 1: you know, I think control is one of the master
Speaker 1: illusions that we have as human beings. And we never
Speaker 1: have complete control over what happens or doesn't happen in
Speaker 1: our life, but we do have choice and how we
Speaker 1: respond to it, and to me, that parable is really
Speaker 1: illustrating how we have choice. You know, we don't have control,
Speaker 1: but we have choice, and whatever we choose to think about,
Speaker 1: whatever we choose to give our energy, it tends to
Speaker 1: grow inside of us. So if we want to feed
Speaker 1: thoughts about how grateful for we are, how appreciative we are,
Speaker 1: how accepting we are, that tends to grow. And if
Speaker 1: we want to entertain thoughts about lack or fear or worry,
Speaker 1: then that tends to grow in our life. But I
Speaker 1: think it all comes back to choice, you know. I
Speaker 1: love um Man Searched for Meeting Victor Frankel's books. It's
Speaker 1: one of my favorite books. And I don't know, I
Speaker 1: don't think I'm quoting exactly what he says in the book.
Speaker 1: But he says, in between stimulus and response is a window,
Speaker 1: and in that window lies our freedom, and that window,
Speaker 1: to me is choice. That's one of my favorite quotes too.
Speaker 1: So I got to ask you, then, what are some
Speaker 1: of the books that have been most inspiring to you
Speaker 1: over the years, because I think Man Search for Meaning
Speaker 1: was certainly one for me. What else is in there
Speaker 1: for you? I'm sitting next to my bookshelf. Um, I
Speaker 1: my first the books that got me on the path
Speaker 1: and really turned me onto all this and just blew
Speaker 1: my mind. I read at the same time. So my
Speaker 1: first two were The Celestian Prophecy and The Alchemist. So
Speaker 1: those were two books that was just like, was like WHOA,
Speaker 1: just kind of opened my mind to what was possible,
Speaker 1: you know, And I think that I know, I was
Speaker 1: very much raised in a traditional family. UM, grew up Catholic,
Speaker 1: and so my belief system was was kind of limited,
Speaker 1: and I didn't really have a very expanse of mindset,
Speaker 1: and so those books just completely blew my mind. Um,
Speaker 1: and kind of think of other you know, I'm a
Speaker 1: big fan of Rain Williamson. All her books have really
Speaker 1: touched my heart in my life. And then you know.
Speaker 1: I don't know if you've read the Science of Getting
Speaker 1: Rich by Wallace Water Wattles. It was written in nine
Speaker 1: and it talks about wealth consciousness and that really shifted
Speaker 1: things for me in terms of wealth and money and
Speaker 1: my relationship with money. Um. And then speaking of relationships,
Speaker 1: I have all different boxes. Um. I love David Data's
Speaker 1: books The Way of the Superior Man, I think is
Speaker 1: a must read for any man and woman to really
Speaker 1: understand men. And then his other book, Intimate Communion, is
Speaker 1: about the different kinds of relationships that we have in
Speaker 1: the different stages we evolved through as men and women.
Speaker 1: So I really love books on spirituality, thoughts of conscious creation, relationships.
Speaker 1: Those are all the books that I dive into. I
Speaker 1: would say most of my books are nonfiction. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: I read a lot of nonfiction to all though I
Speaker 1: grew up loving fiction and I occasionally go back to it.
Speaker 1: And there's there's something about um ex varience in the
Speaker 1: world and emotions through somebody else's eyes that can be
Speaker 1: very it's I think it's very good for empathy. Oh. Absolutely.
Speaker 1: I was such a nerd growing up and I would
Speaker 1: build these furniture tents, like furniture forts. Did you ever
Speaker 1: do those? Like you move your furniture together and get
Speaker 1: like blankets and things. Chris is doing one right now.
Speaker 1: I love it. I love that. I want a picture
Speaker 1: of that. But I would climb in my furniture Fords
Speaker 1: with my flashlight, be reading, you know, my my novels
Speaker 1: and books and all that I love to read. Love it.
Speaker 1: So we talked about, um, this idea of we don't
Speaker 1: You said, we don't have control, but we do have choice,
Speaker 1: which is a really uh great little great little quote there.
Speaker 1: So let's talk about your new book, which is called
Speaker 1: uh Expectation Hangover um, and that I think a lot
Speaker 1: of that book gets to the fact of we don't
Speaker 1: have control. Right, we have these ideas of the way
Speaker 1: we want things to turn out, but we don't have control.
Speaker 1: And this the book is about how do we deal
Speaker 1: with those things? So can you maybe tell us what
Speaker 1: is an expectation hangover? Sure? It's a term I made up,
Speaker 1: and it's a right. It can be different things. It
Speaker 1: can be when a desired result or an expected result
Speaker 1: does not occur, things don't go as planned. Life throws
Speaker 1: us an unexpected curveball that just is senses reeling or
Speaker 1: we reach a desired results, things doo gole according to plan,
Speaker 1: but we don't have the expected feeling or experience that
Speaker 1: we really counted on, and we're left with hangover like symptoms.
Speaker 1: And I'm sure everybody out there has had a hangover.
Speaker 1: If you if you haven't, that that's awesome that you've
Speaker 1: avoided that. Um, but I don't think anyone has a hangover,
Speaker 1: and it's like, it's awesome. I just want to feel
Speaker 1: this way forever. And the symptoms of an expectation hangover
Speaker 1: are similar. You have a headache, not necessarily physical that
Speaker 1: that can be the case, but your head is aching
Speaker 1: from all the thinking and obsessing and analyzing and wondering
Speaker 1: about you know, what did or didn't happen. You're spinning
Speaker 1: in the room. Isn't spinning, but you're spinning in confusion.
Speaker 1: There's often a sense of regret, there's a lack of motivation,
Speaker 1: there's kind of being down on yourself, and then there's
Speaker 1: just you know, really wanting to crawl into bed and
Speaker 1: pull the covers over your eyes. Um. So that's the
Speaker 1: definition of an expectation hangover. So you mentioned a couple
Speaker 1: of different types of expectation hangovers. One was when we
Speaker 1: expect that something's going to happen, it doesn't and and
Speaker 1: we're disappointed by that. The other you said was when
Speaker 1: we do get something we want and it doesn't give
Speaker 1: us the feeling we like, which I think is a
Speaker 1: fascinating one. I'm really interested in that one, having experienced
Speaker 1: it a bunch of times. What was the third one?
Speaker 1: Did you say the curveball and life throws us a curveball?
Speaker 1: Is that the third one? Okay? All right? And so
Speaker 1: that is, Um, it's not that I had an expectation
Speaker 1: that I was going to get a certain thing. It said,
Speaker 1: I had an expectation that my life was going along
Speaker 1: a certain path and then a curveball comes. Whether like that.
Speaker 1: Maybe that's something like illness or divorce sheets on you
Speaker 1: all of a sudden, like your business goes bankrupt, your
Speaker 1: house burns down. I mean, it's just kind of you know,
Speaker 1: or could just be like all of a sudden, you like,
Speaker 1: you know, we're on your way to to the grocery
Speaker 1: store and got an offender under It's just it's little things, um,
Speaker 1: And I think that the two there's there's three kinds
Speaker 1: of expectation hangovers there's inner personal meaning, someone has disappointed us,
Speaker 1: someone has let us down. Um, there's personal meaning, the
Speaker 1: kind of the self imposed. Um, we don't meet our
Speaker 1: own expectations. And then they're situational, you know, when things
Speaker 1: just happen or don't happen. Yeah, exactly. So you talk
Speaker 1: about in the book that we all tend to cope
Speaker 1: with these things, Uh, several different ways. Uh, and these
Speaker 1: are the ways that don't work. Could you tell us
Speaker 1: what the ways that coping with these I won't go
Speaker 1: through them all, but so a favorite of most people
Speaker 1: is overing, over drinking, over eating, over working, over shopping,
Speaker 1: over being on the internet, just doing anything to like
Speaker 1: avoid the feelings, anything to distract ourselves, anything to numb ourselves. Um,
Speaker 1: even like getting super involved in someone else's life overcaretaking
Speaker 1: that as an example. Um. Another kind of coping mechanism
Speaker 1: that I see a lot, and this is sort of
Speaker 1: become more prevalent with the personal growth industry, is just
Speaker 1: trying to get to the positive right away, like giving
Speaker 1: yourself a pep talk or trying to do a spiritual
Speaker 1: bypass where you try to get to the silver lining
Speaker 1: and tell yourself it's all okay. And life is great
Speaker 1: and da da da da da. And and why that
Speaker 1: doesn't work is because you know, we're humans, and even
Speaker 1: though part of us knows or has the awareness that,
Speaker 1: you know, everything does happen for reason and there's a
Speaker 1: blessing in every lesson, there's still the human feelings of sadness, anger, shock, regret, shame, guilt,
Speaker 1: the things that are normal to experience during an expectation hangover.
Speaker 1: So so trying to just get to the positive right
Speaker 1: away doesn't really work. So any kind of distraction, avoiding, numbing, um,
Speaker 1: any of those techniques are are common. You know, I
Speaker 1: know so many people, for example, who in the midst
Speaker 1: of an expectation hangover start drinking more. And with all
Speaker 1: of these coping strategies, they work in the short term.
Speaker 1: Like if I'm really sad because I just had a
Speaker 1: breakup and I go drink, I have a bottle of
Speaker 1: wine with my girlfriends, I'm going to have a moment
Speaker 1: of relief and that's gonna feel good. But it's not authentic,
Speaker 1: it's not real. It's it's something that I've contrived through
Speaker 1: the alcohol, and then the next day I feel even
Speaker 1: worse because alcohol is a depressant, and you already feel bad.
Speaker 1: So when you put any of these kind of depressants anything, alcohol, drugs, TV, Internet,
Speaker 1: those kind of things that lower your brain chemistry, it's
Speaker 1: like you're already climbing a mountain of disappointment and you
Speaker 1: add those things and it's like putting a fifty pound
Speaker 1: backpack on your back, and you're just making the climb harder, right,
Speaker 1: which is why I would just drink again the next
Speaker 1: morning and keep that, keep that, keep that rolling, which
Speaker 1: is why I don't drink anymore. So I'm fully familiar
Speaker 1: with that, that that phenomenon I do. I say one
Speaker 1: more thing about that, important for people to get is
Speaker 1: the thing about when using those coping mechanisms like you
Speaker 1: just said, is you have to keep upping the anti, right,
Speaker 1: and oftentimes an expectation hangover left untreated does lead to
Speaker 1: an addiction problem the alcohol, drugs, sex, whatever it is,
Speaker 1: because in order to keep numbing the pain, you have
Speaker 1: to keep upping the anti. Yep. Absolutely, I love that
Speaker 1: phrase spiritual bypass because I think that is such a
Speaker 1: common thing, and I think you're right, particularly as it's
Speaker 1: sort of a dark side of personal development. Um because
Speaker 1: there is a real tendency to immediately think I should
Speaker 1: never feel bad, and if I do feel bad, then
Speaker 1: I need to do something about it. And I even
Speaker 1: think that sometimes the positive actions that we take. Um,
Speaker 1: you know, I was in a recovery program and there
Speaker 1: was a real tendency or am in a recovery program,
Speaker 1: a real tendency that like, if you ever have a
Speaker 1: negative emotion, there is something you should should go do
Speaker 1: that that will make it go away. And the reality,
Speaker 1: like you say, is that those emotions need some degree
Speaker 1: of processing. M hm. Absolutely, absolutely, because we all feel things,
Speaker 1: and men too, not women are not the only ones
Speaker 1: who feel. And when we don't process our feelings, it's
Speaker 1: like trying to keep a beach ball underwater. You know,
Speaker 1: you struggle with it for a while, and sooner or
Speaker 1: later it's going to pop up and slap you in
Speaker 1: the nose. And we, I think, we're so uncomfortable with emotions.
Speaker 1: Were not taught how to process emotions, were not taught
Speaker 1: how to deal them. We're told to be strong. That's
Speaker 1: another coping mechanism that doesn't work. Just being strong and
Speaker 1: fighting our way through it. That's a common one for overachievers,
Speaker 1: you know, just just be strong and just plow right
Speaker 1: through it. But when we suppress our emotions that are
Speaker 1: natural part of the human experience, not only does it
Speaker 1: lead to not dealing with an expectation hangover, but it
Speaker 1: can actually create illness in our body. Because emotion is
Speaker 1: energy in motion. So if we don't have healthy ways
Speaker 1: to get that emotion out, it's going to sneak up
Speaker 1: on us. It's going to come out in some other form. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And I think that is that is so true. And
Speaker 1: I think if there's one one area that I tend
Speaker 1: to go wrong with that these days, it would be
Speaker 1: with that spiritual bypass be by simply finding a way.
Speaker 1: And I think that's we we talk on this show.
Speaker 1: One of my one of the guests we had on
Speaker 1: wrote a great book and it was examined in the
Speaker 1: American self help industry, and she had a quote in
Speaker 1: there because she grew up with a father who was
Speaker 1: a UM, a therapist and a and a self help
Speaker 1: author himself, and and she asked the question that I
Speaker 1: really thought was a great question, and I think it
Speaker 1: speaks right to this, which is when is it positive
Speaker 1: thinking and when is it sort of outright denial? And
Speaker 1: that is such a tricky line. Yeah, yeah, well, I
Speaker 1: think when you're trying to talk yourself into something, um,
Speaker 1: then it's you know, an affirmation that I just say
Speaker 1: because I'm trying to make myself feel better. Is different
Speaker 1: than when I'm saying something authentically because I believe it,
Speaker 1: you know, and the unconscious mind can tell when we're
Speaker 1: b ssing ourselves, which is why I call a pendulum
Speaker 1: thinking in the book, you know, to go from let's
Speaker 1: say that like you just you're an entrepreneur and your
Speaker 1: business just failed most likely or naturally going to have
Speaker 1: thoughts like I failed or I'm a loser or something
Speaker 1: that's like that, to then shift to I'm learning from
Speaker 1: this and I am an amazing person and what I
Speaker 1: will thrive from this. It's like it's this huge pendulum
Speaker 1: and your unconscious mind is like no, no, like I
Speaker 1: don't believe you. So it's better to kind of get
Speaker 1: to the middle and go, you know, something like I
Speaker 1: except where I am, I did the best I could.
Speaker 1: You know, those kind of like I am enough, all
Speaker 1: is okay? You know, those things that calm us down
Speaker 1: a little bit and don't perpetuate the negative. I'm not
Speaker 1: saying perpetuate negative thinking. But I think you and I
Speaker 1: are both don't try to get to the silver lining
Speaker 1: when you haven't gone through the breakthrough that's right in
Speaker 1: front of you. Yeah, And I think the other thing
Speaker 1: that's interesting about everything that you just said and your book,
Speaker 1: your your book sort of talks about this in different ways,
Speaker 1: is everything that you just described your thoughts and and
Speaker 1: it's it's the it's the emotion that we're talking about.
Speaker 1: How we and I always think that's a that's an
Speaker 1: interesting distinction, is because I do think it's important, at
Speaker 1: least for myself to control to some degree, to work
Speaker 1: with the thoughts I'm having. Because thoughts largely I think
Speaker 1: our stories do a great degree. But emotion is something different.
Speaker 1: There's no an emotion is an emotion. Now, there's an
Speaker 1: interaction between those two things. But I think that what
Speaker 1: you just described is being in touch with what the
Speaker 1: emotion is. Absolutely, people tend to think their emotions rather
Speaker 1: than feel their emotions, and um in the book, I
Speaker 1: talked about the difference between releasing and recycling emotions and
Speaker 1: why the emotional section is the first part of the
Speaker 1: treatment plan is because everybody just wants to think their
Speaker 1: way through something rather than really feel their way through something,
Speaker 1: and we we end up recycling so many of our
Speaker 1: feelings and our emotions because let's say, let's say I
Speaker 1: have a good cry and I don't really feel better
Speaker 1: after the cry, you know, and I have so many
Speaker 1: clients that come to see me and I'm like, well,
Speaker 1: we really need to process your sadness, and they're like, well,
Speaker 1: I've cried and cried and cried and cried, and I said, yeah,
Speaker 1: but you're just recycling. And how we recycle is while
Speaker 1: we're crying or having the feeling or whatever it may be,
Speaker 1: there's a part of us that's judging and analyzing. There's
Speaker 1: this commentary going, when is this going to stop? I
Speaker 1: hate this? I shouldn't be so sad that the like
Speaker 1: go on and on and on. And what that does
Speaker 1: is it just recycles the emotion. And why therapy or
Speaker 1: coaching or or even twelve step groups to some extent
Speaker 1: really work is because someone's given permission to be vulnerable
Speaker 1: and share their feelings and other people are just holding
Speaker 1: a space of compassion. They're not offering advice, they're not judging,
Speaker 1: they're not analyzing. Like a good support group of good coach,
Speaker 1: a good therapist will just really cold a space for
Speaker 1: someone to be able to just emote and know that
Speaker 1: that's not who they are and say things like you're
Speaker 1: doing okay, it's okay, keep going, And we need to
Speaker 1: learn how to do that for ourselves to be able
Speaker 1: to have the feeling at the same time discover this
Speaker 1: part of us it's like, it's okay, it's okay, you're okay,
Speaker 1: rather than having this judger analyzer trying to get out
Speaker 1: of the feeling as quickly as possible. One of the
Speaker 1: books that I loved a lot. Speaking of books, I
Speaker 1: read UM when my son was too I we were
Speaker 1: talking about him earlier and and my wife and I
Speaker 1: split and it was a really difficult time for me.
Speaker 1: And there was an author, Pema Children, who had a
Speaker 1: book called When Things Fall Apart, and she talks very
Speaker 1: much about that, don't indulge or repress those things um
Speaker 1: and and drop the storyline of what's happening. I think
Speaker 1: that's so important. We talk on the show a lot
Speaker 1: about feeling bad, about feeling bad, or the second arrow,
Speaker 1: which in Buddhist terminology, which is this exactly what you
Speaker 1: described now, I've got a feeling, and now I'm telling
Speaker 1: myself what that feeling means. It means that I'm not
Speaker 1: good enough for it means that I shouldn't have this
Speaker 1: feeling was so if I feel this way, then I'm
Speaker 1: weak and all these things that we layer on top
Speaker 1: of and if we can get back to that, what
Speaker 1: that original pain was, what what's this actually about? It?
Speaker 1: It tends to um allow us to do that. And
Speaker 1: I love that phrase where you said that you know
Speaker 1: it's by analyzing these things that we go into recycling. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: and I love I love that you brought up when
Speaker 1: things fall apart. When my fiance dumped me in my twenties,
Speaker 1: six months before our wedding, that was my go to
Speaker 1: book and yeah, and I remember during that breakup that
Speaker 1: was like such an important emotional release for me. And
Speaker 1: I remember having to like do kind of use the
Speaker 1: temper tantrum technique that I described in the book like
Speaker 1: every day for like days, because the thing about an
Speaker 1: expectation hangover is that you're not only dealing with that
Speaker 1: particular event, We're also dealing with everything in our past
Speaker 1: that it triggers. And so let's say you're dealing with
Speaker 1: like a loss, a breakup, a divorce, like whatever it
Speaker 1: may be. When when that happens, you're also dealing with
Speaker 1: a lot of the other breakups you haven't dealt with yet.
Speaker 1: And I saw this really when I so I got
Speaker 1: my fiance broke up with me in my twenties, and
Speaker 1: then I got married to someone else, and then in
Speaker 1: my early thirties, it was clear my husband and I
Speaker 1: were going on different paths, and it was a marriage
Speaker 1: that I completed and and got divorced. And I have
Speaker 1: to say, and I don't think whether you're the one
Speaker 1: who is broken up with or you're the one who leaves.
Speaker 1: I think of breakups just suck, like they're just awful,
Speaker 1: Like no matter how you slice it, they're just awful.
Speaker 1: But I have to say that because I had done
Speaker 1: so much clean up work when my fiance broke up
Speaker 1: with me and really dealt with so much of the
Speaker 1: grief that I had never dealt with in my life,
Speaker 1: the divorce was actually a lot easier because there wasn't
Speaker 1: so much unprocessed, uncovered material. And that's what I've really
Speaker 1: learned with disappointment. I don't know if this is true
Speaker 1: for you, Eric too. It's like As you kind of
Speaker 1: go through each one and you learn more tools and
Speaker 1: you process each one deeper, the length of time between
Speaker 1: disappointment gets longer, and the time you spend really suffering
Speaker 1: and the disappointment gets shorter. Oh, I think absolutely, And
Speaker 1: I think that's the one thing. So I I told
Speaker 1: you this, you know, I mentioned that with my with
Speaker 1: my ex and my son's mother and he was two
Speaker 1: years old, and she came home one day and said, oh,
Speaker 1: i'm I want you to leave the house. I'm in
Speaker 1: love with someone else. And I was just like, holy shit,
Speaker 1: And I mean my world really did fall apart um.
Speaker 1: And a lot of it was, you know, I wasn't
Speaker 1: going to be living with my son, and but I
Speaker 1: what I got to in that place was I had
Speaker 1: no choice but to process those emotions. I had nowhere
Speaker 1: to go. I think, partially being in recovery, I was like, well,
Speaker 1: I can't go do this and I can't go do that.
Speaker 1: And I did a lot of the things that are
Speaker 1: in your you know that you talk about in the book,
Speaker 1: the the writing of I mean angry letter after angry
Speaker 1: letter after angry letter that just got thrown away. But
Speaker 1: the interesting thing was I felt like I for the
Speaker 1: first time ever, I really worked all the way through that.
Speaker 1: And it's interesting now because I have a pretty good
Speaker 1: relationship with my ex and there is no hint of
Speaker 1: any bad feeling or anything there. It's like it, it's
Speaker 1: it's over. And that that's an interesting experience to have
Speaker 1: something be so totally transformed. And it was. It was
Speaker 1: I will not say in any way, shape or form,
Speaker 1: that was enjoyable going through it. And I think if
Speaker 1: I could have thought of a way to avoid it,
Speaker 1: I probably would have, but I couldn't. I couldn't and
Speaker 1: so um And when I read your book, it brought
Speaker 1: a lot of that back me thinking about how that
Speaker 1: was an example of me really processing emotion versus doing
Speaker 1: these different things and maybe what I've done more recently,
Speaker 1: which is more of the spiritual bypass route. Yeah. Well,
Speaker 1: and and see, I love what you're saying because what
Speaker 1: it reminds me of is that, you know, the agenda
Speaker 1: of our ego and the desire of our soul are
Speaker 1: often in direct conflict. Um and our ego wants things
Speaker 1: like marriage, job, it wants to form, it wants outcome,
Speaker 1: it wants to check things off a checklist. But all
Speaker 1: our soul kind of cares about is our evolution and
Speaker 1: our growth and coming back to the parable for a moment,
Speaker 1: about the one you feed. You know, I think that
Speaker 1: most people in the personal transformation spiritual world would all
Speaker 1: agree that, you know, we all start out as love.
Speaker 1: We all start out totally connected to source energy called God, Divi, nature,
Speaker 1: call it whatever you want, but we're all kind of
Speaker 1: connected to this oneness is love. We know our whole,
Speaker 1: we're know, we know we're complete. And then things happen
Speaker 1: and we move into fear and judgment and shame and
Speaker 1: all that kind of stuff. And so I think we
Speaker 1: have the constant choice again coming back to choice is
Speaker 1: are we going to feed love or are we going
Speaker 1: to feed fear? And oftentimes we have to go through
Speaker 1: these difficult, challenging times to get us back to love.
Speaker 1: And sometimes it takes a catalyst like a divorce or
Speaker 1: an addiction or an illness or something like that to
Speaker 1: bring us to our knees enough to surrender, to stop
Speaker 1: clinging for safety, security, control, and to eventually move out
Speaker 1: of that fear and back into love. Because I think
Speaker 1: that like our true purpose here is to come back
Speaker 1: to how we started you know, to come back to
Speaker 1: that place of wholeness, completeness, knowing that we're nothing's wrong
Speaker 1: with us, knowing that we're loved, knowing that we're lovable,
Speaker 1: knowing we're not broken, knowing we're enough independent of anything
Speaker 1: we create. Yeah, that's uh, that's a wonderful place to
Speaker 1: to get to. So in the book you talk about
Speaker 1: you have a treatment plan that you talked about for
Speaker 1: going through these expectation hangovers and it's a fourth step plan.
Speaker 1: You say, there's a and I think it's in order right, emotional,
Speaker 1: than mental, than behavioral, and then spiritual. So could we
Speaker 1: spend a minute and kind of walk through each of
Speaker 1: those and then I have a question about the order? Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so my um, when I one of my first spiritual
Speaker 1: teachers and coaches, I met her when I was twenty two.
Speaker 1: Her name was Mona Miller, and she was she she
Speaker 1: really called me out. Um, she saw me with love,
Speaker 1: but but also could see through all my bullshit. Oh sorry,
Speaker 1: I hope I can say that. I think I've sworn
Speaker 1: several times already, so I think we're good. So, um,
Speaker 1: oh sorry about that. I just turn this off. Um.
Speaker 1: So that's when I really first kind of learned as
Speaker 1: myself as a multidimensional being. You know, I think that
Speaker 1: for all of us, thinking is easy, but thinking and
Speaker 1: and and feeling are very different, as you said. And
Speaker 1: then thinking is great in terms of awareness, but awareness
Speaker 1: without action, without changing our behavior, means nothing. And then
Speaker 1: if we're just sort of these thinking, feeling, acting beings
Speaker 1: with no higher connection than we never feel totally fulfilled.
Speaker 1: So that's why the you know, there's those four levels, um,
Speaker 1: so I'll just walk through a little bit of each one. So,
Speaker 1: like I said, we start on the emotional level of
Speaker 1: an expectation hangover because that's the one we don't want
Speaker 1: to deal with. That's what we want to avoid. And
Speaker 1: the treatment plan is really about learning how to release
Speaker 1: emotions rather than recycle them. So there's things you learn
Speaker 1: like release writing like um, which is a way of
Speaker 1: writing that isn't like journaling that you go back and reread.
Speaker 1: But it's really about an emotional release, mind dumping, burning
Speaker 1: and ripping it up when you're done, just away to
Speaker 1: us get emotion out. And the temper tantrum technique is
Speaker 1: is definitely unique, UM, but it's a way to actually
Speaker 1: let yourself have an adult version of a temper tantrum.
Speaker 1: And the reason why this is important is because you know,
Speaker 1: if you if you imagine a little kid and you
Speaker 1: see a kid have a temper tantrum, if you don't
Speaker 1: interrupt them, what ends up happening is first they get
Speaker 1: really something happens and they get upset, and then first
Speaker 1: the anger revs up and they may yell and scream
Speaker 1: and kick, and then they start crying really loud, and
Speaker 1: then the crying kind of turns to a whimper, and
Speaker 1: then the whimpering kind of turns to like, you know,
Speaker 1: shortness of breath and just kind of going, you know,
Speaker 1: and then eventually they start to rock themselves and they
Speaker 1: start to self soothe, and then they're totally out of
Speaker 1: it and they're fine and they want ice cream. And
Speaker 1: what what they've done is they've learned how to ride
Speaker 1: the wave of emotion. And on every level emotional, mental, behavioral,
Speaker 1: and spiritual, I have is something called role playing our
Speaker 1: X where you kind of embody a role to help
Speaker 1: you understand these tools. So on the emotional level, it's
Speaker 1: that of the surfer, and you really learn how to
Speaker 1: ride your emotions all the way to the beach without
Speaker 1: trying to dive off the board and control the waves
Speaker 1: or whatever. UM. So that's that's you know, each each
Speaker 1: section is pretty deep and rich. So I'm just kind
Speaker 1: of skimming this for me. On the beach. Yes, whatever
Speaker 1: your favorite flavor is, it's there, waffle cone or in
Speaker 1: a cup, whatever you like, it's there. Um. And then
Speaker 1: moving on to the mental level. The role planar acts
Speaker 1: on this level is out of the horseback rider. And
Speaker 1: you know, we can't control every thought that comes in
Speaker 1: our mind is like a galloping horse, but we have
Speaker 1: dominion over the reins. We hold the reins. We can
Speaker 1: stop it, we can redirect it, we can slow it down,
Speaker 1: we can speed it up. So on the mental level,
Speaker 1: you're learning how to basically rewire your brain by watching
Speaker 1: normal thought patterns and and changing the neural nets in
Speaker 1: your brains by creating new ones. There's also a lot
Speaker 1: of UM exercises to help you realize what your story
Speaker 1: is because we all have there's what's happened to us
Speaker 1: in our life, and then is what we've made it mean.
Speaker 1: And we all have these stories that we carry around
Speaker 1: like backpacks and collect evidence that support our story. Even
Speaker 1: if our story sucks. Like you could have a story
Speaker 1: about always getting rejected. Well, that's a really sucky story,
Speaker 1: but if you keep believing it and replaying it, and
Speaker 1: then you're really gonna start collect evidence. Collecting evidence in
Speaker 1: your life is going to be about continual rejections. So
Speaker 1: it's really about you know, what is the story you
Speaker 1: want to tell. And on the mental level, we also
Speaker 1: work with time travel, so past hacking in the future tripping,
Speaker 1: we tend to go back in our past and do
Speaker 1: things like regret things and use information we have now
Speaker 1: to go back and analyze and beat ourselves up for
Speaker 1: things we didn't know in the past, which is not fair.
Speaker 1: And then we tend a future trip and come up
Speaker 1: with taste scenario thinking. So there's a lot about really
Speaker 1: using your mind as your servant, not your master um.
Speaker 1: And if you're going to go back to the past,
Speaker 1: go back from the perspective of what can you learn,
Speaker 1: And if you're going to go in the future, at
Speaker 1: least make it good. You know, we're making up the
Speaker 1: future anyway, so like, at least make it something and
Speaker 1: you want um. And then we get to the behavioral level,
Speaker 1: which is you know, awareness with that action is nothing
Speaker 1: it's just sort of like entertainment. And you start to
Speaker 1: look at what has driven behavior in the past, and
Speaker 1: you learn about things like what's been your compensatory strategy?
Speaker 1: You know, what's been the thing that you've gotten really
Speaker 1: good at that isn't necessarily good for you. Um most
Speaker 1: compensatory strategies come from a wounded place, like, for example,
Speaker 1: I was bullied and teased a lot growing up as
Speaker 1: a kid. I formed the belief that I was not likable,
Speaker 1: something was wrong with me. To compensate for that, to
Speaker 1: make up or I felt less. Then I became a
Speaker 1: severer overachiever, which made me successful in life, but since
Speaker 1: it was driven by massive insecurity, it was never fulfilling.
Speaker 1: So you start to look at behavior that has maybe
Speaker 1: has made you successful or made you well liked, or
Speaker 1: made you feel safe, but isn't necessarily creating the results
Speaker 1: in terms of the feelings that you want experience. And
Speaker 1: you also look at your avoidance trap in terms of
Speaker 1: you know what you spend a lot of time and
Speaker 1: energy invested in avoiding, Like do you avoid rejection? Do
Speaker 1: you avoid judgment? Do you avoid upsetting people? Do you
Speaker 1: avoid feeling out of control? And how does that stop
Speaker 1: you from taking action in your life. Um. And then
Speaker 1: finally on the spiritual level, you start to look at
Speaker 1: your life. Oh and on the behavioral level, you take
Speaker 1: on the role as a scientist, so you start observing
Speaker 1: yourself rather than judging yourself. And then finally on the
Speaker 1: spiritual level, you become the seeker and you start to
Speaker 1: look at your life lessons and you start to move
Speaker 1: into things like prayer and deep performance of meditation and
Speaker 1: surrender and forgiveness. I would say forgiveness is probably the
Speaker 1: most powerful tool on the spiritual level, because forgiveness doesn't
Speaker 1: mean condoning anything. It doesn't mean making things okay, it
Speaker 1: doesn't mean agreement, but it does mean letting go of
Speaker 1: the judgments that we're carrying around inside. And that truly
Speaker 1: is what sets us free, and I think what opens
Speaker 1: us up to our dhrama, to our purpose, to really
Speaker 1: truly being guided. So that was it. That's a brief tour. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that was a brief tour um. And I can say
Speaker 1: from having been through the book, there is a lot
Speaker 1: of detail on each of those things, and you've got
Speaker 1: a lot of exercises in there, and uh, different meditations
Speaker 1: and different things to use to work through that. I'm interested,
Speaker 1: and I said, I had a question about the the order.
Speaker 1: What I always find interesting is I think obviously for
Speaker 1: a plan, you have to have an order of things
Speaker 1: to go through. What I always find so interesting is
Speaker 1: the dynamic between those four areas and how um how
Speaker 1: in some ways the the interplay, like what I'm thinking
Speaker 1: can affect how I'm feeling, how I'm behaving, can act
Speaker 1: how I'm thinking, and all those Because of a quote
Speaker 1: that I use often as you you can't think your
Speaker 1: way into right action. You have to act your way
Speaker 1: into into right thinking in some cases, um which is
Speaker 1: which is just a slightly different take. But I really
Speaker 1: like where you start with the emotional piece because I
Speaker 1: I agree. I think that is the part a that
Speaker 1: we try and avoid and be that's the part that
Speaker 1: sets off the emotional hangover. It's an emotional yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1: And you know, there's there's not a lot out there
Speaker 1: in terms of how to teach us how to deal
Speaker 1: with our feelings. There's so much out there about manifesting
Speaker 1: and manipulating our mind. I think we're so mentally stimulated
Speaker 1: and mentally obsessed that we we've really got to get
Speaker 1: back into ourselves as feeling people, you know, and and
Speaker 1: that's part of the human experience, and even even you know,
Speaker 1: kind of with the movement to spirituality, which I love,
Speaker 1: I consider myself a spiritual person. We can't go to
Speaker 1: spiritual bypass either. You can't just chant mantras the rest
Speaker 1: of your life and expect to deal with the deep
Speaker 1: anger and shame from your childhood. You've got to do
Speaker 1: a little investing on the emotional level in order to
Speaker 1: really clear that. You know, That's just been my experience
Speaker 1: personally and working with thousands of people at this point
Speaker 1: is eventually you've got to feel your feelings. I've more
Speaker 1: and more been thinking we end up talking on this
Speaker 1: show about about depression a fair amount. It's something I've
Speaker 1: wrestled with on and off in the past. I know
Speaker 1: a lot of our listeners have, and I've more and
Speaker 1: more become convinced that it's a you really have to
Speaker 1: have a holistic approach to it. That really and these
Speaker 1: four areas that you laid out pretty much cover that.
Speaker 1: What that means. There's it's not enough to just take
Speaker 1: care of um the mental aspect of it, Although it's
Speaker 1: critical to have the mental aspect of it, because and
Speaker 1: you talk about it in your book, this idea of
Speaker 1: ruminating about you know, thinking about the same things over
Speaker 1: and over again can drive us into a really negative
Speaker 1: emotional spaces. So there's there's that interaction there. But I
Speaker 1: more and more become convinced that it's you need all
Speaker 1: of this working in concert together. Yeah. I mean I
Speaker 1: Eric got put on prozac when I was ten years old,
Speaker 1: and I was on antidepressants until about thirty, so twenty
Speaker 1: years of my life. I was kind of numb. And
Speaker 1: part of my mission, you know, my my big mission
Speaker 1: is to help be suffering on the planet and whatever
Speaker 1: way I can. And you know, a sub part of
Speaker 1: that mission is really bringing light to depression because I
Speaker 1: think depression is often a result of suppression and repression.
Speaker 1: And most people that are depressed are and medicated. A
Speaker 1: lot of them don't even need it um, but they
Speaker 1: need their emotion, they need their creativity unlocked, they need
Speaker 1: to be given away to feel again. And so much
Speaker 1: of my own journey coming off the antidepressants and really
Speaker 1: healing depression inside myself because it's not something that I
Speaker 1: suffer from anymore. And I and PS I was told
Speaker 1: my whole life, you will always need medication. Um, this
Speaker 1: is just the way you're wired, and this is just
Speaker 1: how it is. So I had all of that kind
Speaker 1: of belief system seeded inside of me, and a huge
Speaker 1: part of finally being able to to get through it
Speaker 1: and get to the other side of it was being
Speaker 1: willing to go into those really scary feelings and finally
Speaker 1: feel all of those things that I was so terrified
Speaker 1: to feel. And it was dark and it was hard,
Speaker 1: but I will tell you that once I went into
Speaker 1: that and got through it, it's like something released, you know.
Speaker 1: So for anyone out there, I'm not here to say
Speaker 1: medication is good, bad, right, wrong, whatever, Like everybody has
Speaker 1: to trust their own intuition and the people that care
Speaker 1: for them. But for anyone who may be suffering from
Speaker 1: you know, either diagnosed depression or you just kind of
Speaker 1: feel depressed and sad, there there is another there is
Speaker 1: another side to that, and so just keep going, keep going. Yeah,
Speaker 1: the medication topic is a really interesting one because it
Speaker 1: certainly has been a huge help to me and a
Speaker 1: lot of people that I know. Um, And yet the
Speaker 1: question does become is that is it something that you
Speaker 1: how long do you need to continue. And is that
Speaker 1: medicine causing a numbing effect to some degree? I think
Speaker 1: that's something that people who are on depression medication, myself included,
Speaker 1: I wonder often about is there a is there a
Speaker 1: numbing element to that and how significant is that? And
Speaker 1: and that's why I get back to sort of this
Speaker 1: idea of a holistic plan. And I didn't actually start
Speaker 1: taking medicine for myself until I had really done. I
Speaker 1: was doing all that stuff, all the emotional stuff, really
Speaker 1: working deeply with what was happening. UM. When I was
Speaker 1: a kid, I was taking finally taking good physical care
Speaker 1: of myself. I was, I was meditating. I was like,
Speaker 1: and I still feel awful and so and then you know,
Speaker 1: the medicine sort of changed that. But but things evolve
Speaker 1: over time. I just think it's a very interesting concept.
Speaker 1: But I think that UM. We had a guest on
Speaker 1: last tweek, John Rodderman, who's a he's a professor in Florida,
Speaker 1: and he talks a lot about depression, and he talks
Speaker 1: about depression being an evolutionary adaptation, UM, and that it's
Speaker 1: it's and he's in general his general sense is, look,
Speaker 1: it's not it's not enough to just give people medicine
Speaker 1: and send them home. And that's what I'm pretty much,
Speaker 1: very much amazed by these days is how often that
Speaker 1: is the only answer that people are given. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and and I think that again, like the personal thing,
Speaker 1: and I will say, the thing that was my girl,
Speaker 1: I guess you'd say, our lifeline through it. And what
Speaker 1: finally got me off is that, um, a spiritual connection
Speaker 1: like that, that kind of nurturing, that relationship with a
Speaker 1: higher power, um, and faith is what got me kind
Speaker 1: of was that final step. You know, I've done the
Speaker 1: herbs and diet and all that kind of stuff, um,
Speaker 1: but that having a relationship with higher power and experiencing
Speaker 1: myself as a spiritual being, UM, I would say, was
Speaker 1: the missing link for me personally. Interesting. So you say
Speaker 1: you don't you don't suffer from it anymore? Do you
Speaker 1: find that you you cycle through emotion or mood or
Speaker 1: you are you fairly steady at this point. I'm a woman.
Speaker 1: I'm not steady, all right, that I was going to
Speaker 1: leave that aside, but um, and I'm a human, you know,
Speaker 1: so I here's the thing I really good at using
Speaker 1: my tools. I definitely have moods I definitely have downtimes.
Speaker 1: I definitely have my own expectation of hangovers. Um, But
Speaker 1: I am much better at using my tools and I'm
Speaker 1: much better at asking for help to you know, realizing
Speaker 1: I have a support system around me. Realize I have
Speaker 1: friends and teachers and mentors and communities that I can
Speaker 1: lean on in those moments. And then I have my
Speaker 1: my spiritual foundation as well. Um So, I would say
Speaker 1: that absolutely, I still have my moments, but I never
Speaker 1: feel depressed. Um I, if I ever kind of start
Speaker 1: to feel depressed, I know I'm suppressing something. I know
Speaker 1: I need a good like yell. You know, I know
Speaker 1: I need to go box, or I know I need
Speaker 1: a good cry, or I know I need to just
Speaker 1: go dance and move my body or do something creative.
Speaker 1: Um So, depressed. Anytime I start to feel that remnants
Speaker 1: of depression, it means something needs to move. Yeah. That's
Speaker 1: a really interesting way to think about it. Because the
Speaker 1: thing that is so tricky about depression, I think, is
Speaker 1: that it's a lack of feeling. By in large right,
Speaker 1: it's not a sadness. Is is as a whole different animal.
Speaker 1: Um Depression is that sort of deadness, and that emptiness,
Speaker 1: and it's it's very difficult to say, oh, it's because
Speaker 1: of x um, because that doesn't feel like it's because
Speaker 1: of ice. And I think your point is that stuff
Speaker 1: just builds up over time and over time, and in
Speaker 1: a lot of cases that that suppression or that repression
Speaker 1: happened at a complete it's very it happened so long
Speaker 1: ago or in such different circumstances, it's very difficult to
Speaker 1: tie those things together. I think that's what makes can
Speaker 1: make depression such a challenge, because being angry or being sad,
Speaker 1: it's easy to find those Oh I'm angry because I'm sad,
Speaker 1: because largely whereas depression is like I don't there's no
Speaker 1: emotional now, a lot of times there's an event that
Speaker 1: kicks it off, right you go, oh, I'm I start
Speaker 1: to become depressed because you know, I lost my job,
Speaker 1: and then we can sort of see how it it flows.
Speaker 1: But I think for people who've been in it a
Speaker 1: long time, it's so nebulous. Yes, totally totally, it's it's
Speaker 1: and I think that that's um, that's when the self
Speaker 1: judgment kicks in big time of why am I feeling
Speaker 1: this way? What's wrong with me, I'm pathetic, which just
Speaker 1: makes it worse. Um. So I think another huge lesson
Speaker 1: I would say that that people that suffer from depression
Speaker 1: are often high achievers and are often people that are
Speaker 1: really hard on themselves and think being hard on themselves
Speaker 1: is an effective way to kind of motivate themselves. Um,
Speaker 1: which is so not true. And another huge lesson that
Speaker 1: came from my depression with self compassion. I'm really learning
Speaker 1: how to be with myself in a gentle, loving way
Speaker 1: and not be so freaking hard on myself. That makes
Speaker 1: a huge difference. The other thing you talked about that
Speaker 1: I thought was really important was talking about asking for
Speaker 1: help and having friends and a support group and various
Speaker 1: things like that, because I heard somebody say recently. It
Speaker 1: was in the interview that we just put out today
Speaker 1: where the quote I think was loneliness masquerading is depression. Um,
Speaker 1: that it's that that can be such a catalyst that
Speaker 1: it's very those those two things, um show up symptomatically,
Speaker 1: so similarly, Yeah, they really do. Loneliness is is brutal,
Speaker 1: and it's even like being that a group of people
Speaker 1: and feeling a lonely worst the worst. So um, I
Speaker 1: think we're nearing the end of our time. But I
Speaker 1: did want to talk with you about one other part
Speaker 1: in the book that really struck me. Um And you
Speaker 1: talk about the difference, you talk about form versus essence.
Speaker 1: Can you explain what you mean by that. Yeah, this
Speaker 1: is the kind of the thing that that I learned. UM. So,
Speaker 1: my first my first job was an agent. I was
Speaker 1: a Hollywood agent, and um, I was like the youngest
Speaker 1: ever female agent, and I was I was really, really,
Speaker 1: really successful at a young age. And I, you know,
Speaker 1: no matter what promotion I got, or you know, how
Speaker 1: much more money I made, it was like I still
Speaker 1: wasn't getting the feeling that I wanted. I still wasn't
Speaker 1: feeling fulfilled. I wasn't feeling happy, I wasn't feeling on purpose.
Speaker 1: And like I shared earlier, I was mostly driven by insecurity,
Speaker 1: you know, and was looking for something that would finally
Speaker 1: make me feel good about myself. Um And I kept
Speaker 1: attached different forms to it, like be a successful agent,
Speaker 1: make this much money, date this person, have this size figure,
Speaker 1: like whatever it may be. I kept looking for the
Speaker 1: thing to make me feel that way, versus realizing that
Speaker 1: it was really the feeling I was after not the thing.
Speaker 1: So form versus essence means we all have certain desires,
Speaker 1: we all have ways we want to feel, things we
Speaker 1: want to experience, and because the mind like certainty and
Speaker 1: the mind likes to know, it attaches a form onto
Speaker 1: that and then we become obsessed with that form versus
Speaker 1: really letting the essence lead us. Um. So I'll give
Speaker 1: an example. Are most of your listeners women or men?
Speaker 1: I don't know. I think it's a pretty fair mix.
Speaker 1: I only I can only go by the people who
Speaker 1: get in touch with us, and based on that, it's
Speaker 1: it seems like to be a pretty even split. Well,
Speaker 1: give an example. That's that's a female example, but I
Speaker 1: think men will really get it as well as a
Speaker 1: good form versus essence. So, most women feel the desire
Speaker 1: to have a baby. And but really, and I've talked
Speaker 1: to a lot of women about this, what they're feeling
Speaker 1: is the desire to create, the desire to give birth
Speaker 1: to things, the desire to experience unconditional love, to nurture two,
Speaker 1: take care of to mother, and they attach baby to that.
Speaker 1: That's the form boom, this, this must be what I want.
Speaker 1: If I'm feeling this feeling that must be what I want.
Speaker 1: But I've challenged women, and I've had pretty honest conversations
Speaker 1: with women, and what I've seen in my own life
Speaker 1: is and with other women, is that it's it's not
Speaker 1: necessarily quote unquote baby, that's just the form. There's lots
Speaker 1: of ways that essence can be satisfied. Like for me,
Speaker 1: I don't have children, but I feel like I'm my
Speaker 1: my mothering essence is satisfied in creating books and nurturing
Speaker 1: people and coaching people and facilitating and having lots of
Speaker 1: creative expression in my life. And so I think that's
Speaker 1: another lesson that expectation hangovers teach us is that we
Speaker 1: we definitely can have everything we desire in terms of feeling,
Speaker 1: in terms of essence, it just might not come in
Speaker 1: the form or the package that we thought it would. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think that is such a profound understand And we
Speaker 1: had an interview several weeks back. I think you quote
Speaker 1: her somewhere in your book, Danielle laporte Um and her
Speaker 1: book The Desire Map, and the thing that struck me
Speaker 1: about that was sort of exactly that same thing, which says, look,
Speaker 1: think about how you want to feel. Start there and
Speaker 1: and work your way through, and most of us do
Speaker 1: exactly the opposite. And I I do it and have
Speaker 1: done it, you know, my whole life, which is leads
Speaker 1: to that expectation hangover of oh I got what I
Speaker 1: wanted and I don't feel any different, and instead of
Speaker 1: questioning that whole mentality, it's you. My My train of
Speaker 1: thought has always been, oh, well, it's just not enough
Speaker 1: of that thing. I thought that if I had a
Speaker 1: girlfriend that I would be happy. Well, now I've got
Speaker 1: the girlfriend, and well she just must not be a
Speaker 1: good enough girlfriend. Right, It's not it's not the it's
Speaker 1: not the whole process that I'm thinking. And I really
Speaker 1: love that idea of starting with how we want to
Speaker 1: feel and making that the focus, um and then trying
Speaker 1: to sort of piece together being a lot more open
Speaker 1: to what that what the form uh is? I just
Speaker 1: that's such a profound, profoundly different way of looking at
Speaker 1: the world. And I really like the way you put
Speaker 1: that as form versus essence. Yeah, and then we can
Speaker 1: and then we can realize we can generate that right now,
Speaker 1: you know, like we we can create experientially the feeling
Speaker 1: we would like to feel, and the more we live
Speaker 1: in that feeling, the more we attract. You know, that's
Speaker 1: how a law of attraction really works. You know, that's
Speaker 1: how we attract those things that are in alignment with
Speaker 1: that feeling. You know. So it's sort of like, you know,
Speaker 1: single people are like, wow, you know, I always find
Speaker 1: someone when I wasn't looking. You know, I was dating
Speaker 1: for years and then I finally just loved my life
Speaker 1: and stopped looking and stop carrying, and boom, you know,
Speaker 1: I met my partner. And that's just one example of how,
Speaker 1: you know, when when we're just in the wholeness and
Speaker 1: completeness and we're in like nothing's missing, and we're in
Speaker 1: kind of the feeling that we want to feel, then
Speaker 1: then we naturally attract those things in align with that.
Speaker 1: I agree, And um, I it's like I keep thinking
Speaker 1: I need a better podcast partner, but the truth is
Speaker 1: I just want to feel more supported. So right, Chris,
Speaker 1: al right, it would be this show would have been
Speaker 1: off the air like by the fourth week. It was
Speaker 1: a technology helped us out when it didn't allow us
Speaker 1: to have a second microphone in here. That's hysterical. I
Speaker 1: see the Chris and Eric show coming. Sam. Yes, well,
Speaker 1: I think like I said, we are, we are near
Speaker 1: the end of our time, but thank you so much
Speaker 1: for taking the time to talk with us. I really
Speaker 1: liked the book and I've had a great time talking
Speaker 1: with you. Oh, I've had a great time with you two.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for having me on, for reading
Speaker 1: the book and just doing the work that you do
Speaker 1: in the world. All right, well, thanks so much. We'll
Speaker 1: we'll talk again soon, Okay. Thanks bye. You can learn
Speaker 1: more about this podcast and Christine Hassler at one you
Speaker 1: feed dot net slash Christine. By the way, everybody, don't
Speaker 1: forget to go to one you feed dot net slash
Speaker 1: email and sign up for Eric's upcoming four part lesson
Speaker 1: about the seven habits of highly affective people. Thanks bye,