Speaker 1: I will not be handed a rod with a fish
Speaker 1: already on. And I hate that. I hate that. If
Speaker 1: I were on a sinking boat and I had a
Speaker 1: Great White on the starboard side and I had a
Speaker 1: Mako on the port side, I would jump off the
Speaker 1: side of the Great White. Did you ever try and
Speaker 1: catch any of the fish in your fish tank when
Speaker 1: you're a kid? You can't flush because it would be
Speaker 1: like flushing a metal porcupine. You can run it over
Speaker 1: with a truck and it'll be fine. Good morning to
Speaker 1: generate anglers. And welcome to Bend the Fishing podcast that
Speaker 1: Jess wants you to go to the end of the
Speaker 1: pulpit so you can give the dink Walleye had just
Speaker 1: called a little more scale. I'm Joe Surmelie, and I'm
Speaker 1: hating samac and I have a sneaking suspicion. I guess
Speaker 1: what's about to happen. Well, look, you kind of set
Speaker 1: yourself up for it a few weeks ago when I
Speaker 1: when I said I'm not talking about bull trout and
Speaker 1: I'm talking about shark and and and what what was
Speaker 1: perhaps a moment of weakness for you on the show.
Speaker 1: You said you didn't know what I was talking about
Speaker 1: that is what you said at the time. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: I know I did say that, and uh yes, following
Speaker 1: that episode, I actually there were like four or five
Speaker 1: folks who like lift me up on the old ins
Speaker 1: to slam, like just giving me a ship for not
Speaker 1: instantly recognizing that that was from It was the bull
Speaker 1: trout thing that threw me off, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: And I defended myself and let everyone know that I
Speaker 1: have in fact, i've seen Jaws. Well I know, I
Speaker 1: know that you did that, but but I know and
Speaker 1: I know you is my favorite. Oh god, that's terrible.
Speaker 1: You did jump on there and and defend yourself and
Speaker 1: say I have seen it. But it wasn't good enough,
Speaker 1: was it? No? No, no, and you're an asshole. Uh.
Speaker 1: There was one guy that said, uh that we need
Speaker 1: to have a Jaws quiz or something on Ben to
Speaker 1: test my knowledge. And I mean we talked a little
Speaker 1: bit earlier, but I think that that's where or this is.
Speaker 1: You asked me a question that was very like niche Jaws,
Speaker 1: and I was like, shit, he's lining up a quiz, dude,
Speaker 1: I absolutely am uh. And that one guy specifically was
Speaker 1: at Money Mustache and I don't need more than one
Speaker 1: listener comment to get me to create a Jaws quiz.
Speaker 1: And I think that this is important, man, right, your
Speaker 1: reputation is a bit on the line. And I'm not
Speaker 1: saying you haven't seen Jaws, but around here, like you
Speaker 1: don't just see Jaws, like you absorb it. You make
Speaker 1: life decisions around its teachings. It becomes a part of you.
Speaker 1: So we're gonna We're gonna see, thanks to money mustache,
Speaker 1: how well you really know Jaws? Fine? Thanks? What do
Speaker 1: I win if I, like, say, I hit it out
Speaker 1: of the park? What do I win if you? If
Speaker 1: you get them all right? All right? I will send you.
Speaker 1: I will send you a selection of hard baits from
Speaker 1: our glorious sponsors thirteen Fishing, including one of their locos
Speaker 1: special jerk bits that I added a hint of customization to.
Speaker 1: About that. You know, I have pretty much all of
Speaker 1: th stuff. I want a I want a Jaws inspired
Speaker 1: articulated streamer deal. That's why I will come up with that.
Speaker 1: And and one more thing. Getting them all right is
Speaker 1: a high bar. I need like some leeway, Like what
Speaker 1: what is like the passing grade here? What is my
Speaker 1: c plus? I would say, so, all right, So here's
Speaker 1: what I've done. I've devised four questions and they're they're
Speaker 1: ranging in in a degree of difficulty. Will start easy
Speaker 1: and get harder. Um, And I would I would like
Speaker 1: to say, first of all, I want you to succeed.
Speaker 1: I want you to ace this. But so you know,
Speaker 1: there's no inside baseball here. They're not like things that
Speaker 1: like only like the highest caliber Jaws freak would know
Speaker 1: happened behind the scenes or anything like that. Like these
Speaker 1: can all be answered simply by watching the film and
Speaker 1: paying attention. And I would say, a, I don't know, man,
Speaker 1: it's only four questions. Three out of four want to fail?
Speaker 1: That fair? Okay? All right, okay, so here we go.
Speaker 1: H folks at home, please play along. I'm I'm god,
Speaker 1: I'm enjoying this so much. This was so fun, alright,
Speaker 1: question number one? UM. And also, I'm not giving you
Speaker 1: multiple choice because that might jog your memory. You might
Speaker 1: just guess, and that's not that's not proof positive that
Speaker 1: you know the answer to these questions. So you know,
Speaker 1: maybe take a wild stab if you don't know one.
Speaker 1: Question number one, tell me on which naval warship did
Speaker 1: quint serve during World War Two. Um, okay, it was
Speaker 1: the one that went down by sharks, and that's the
Speaker 1: origin of his hatreot or. It didn't go down by sharks,
Speaker 1: but it was the one I think it was in
Speaker 1: the Pacific Japanese sub slam two torpedoes in the water. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: I know, I know, I remember it. Um. I wish
Speaker 1: the people could see you on the computer right now,
Speaker 1: like he is legit agonizing. There's a beat of sweat.
Speaker 1: I guess I could give you partial credit. Remember I
Speaker 1: remember like that, I forget what the ship is called.
Speaker 1: What is the ship called? Give me? Give me that one?
Speaker 1: So like if I half asked another one? Okay, I
Speaker 1: give is the USS Indianapolis? Say, I wish I just
Speaker 1: knew my naval history better, man, I remember the event
Speaker 1: I couldn't recall, like the name. Al right. Next question,
Speaker 1: that was the easy one, all right. How much was
Speaker 1: Quint charging the mayor to catch and kill the shark? Oh?
Speaker 1: You got that one? Good on yet that is correct.
Speaker 1: He'd find it for three kill and catch it and
Speaker 1: kill it for ten okay, good, alright, alright, doing good,
Speaker 1: doing good? All right? What specific material did Quint use
Speaker 1: as a bite leader in his shark rigs that would
Speaker 1: be the question, man um piano wire, that's correct. It
Speaker 1: was that a guess. I remembered it. I remembered it
Speaker 1: being like something obscure, and then I thought, what was
Speaker 1: like the only thing that would be obscure and that
Speaker 1: could also be used as a leader, And I thought
Speaker 1: piano wire. So so there's a talking about inside Baseball.
Speaker 1: There's the leaded scene where they show him buying spools
Speaker 1: of it in the local music shop that got cut.
Speaker 1: But even on the boat, he gives Hooper a hard
Speaker 1: time when when Hooper says it was a stingray and
Speaker 1: he says stingray bit through that piano wire. So it
Speaker 1: is mentioned the film piano wires correct and serious shark guys.
Speaker 1: After the fact, we're like, that's the dumbest thing. Piano
Speaker 1: wire sucked. Like that was just you know, completely for
Speaker 1: you know, drama and spice. Nobody ever really used piano wire. Okay,
Speaker 1: last one, you're you're you're doing You're doing good. I
Speaker 1: like it. In the scene Hooper and Brody are dissecting
Speaker 1: the tiger shark that they thought was the man eater,
Speaker 1: Hooper pulls a license plate from its stomach. What state
Speaker 1: is it from? Okay? Well, and it is supposed to
Speaker 1: be in Massachusetts, right, correct, But I don't think it
Speaker 1: would be from Massachusetts. M remember where they said it
Speaker 1: swam up from? Well y New York. I'm saying New York.
Speaker 1: I don't know. Okay, it was Louisiana sportsman's paradise. Oh,
Speaker 1: it's a tiger shark, not a white shark. The tiger shark,
Speaker 1: they said, probably swam up from the Gulf Stream, from
Speaker 1: southern waters. And you know you can buy those license
Speaker 1: plates online there. It's it's very cool. That wasn't bad, though, Dude,
Speaker 1: that wasn't bad. I'm a little I'm more. I'm more
Speaker 1: depressed about the Indianapolis than the license plate. That was
Speaker 1: a hard one. You gotta really be paying attention to
Speaker 1: know the license plate. Yeah, that was pretty good. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Can I get like a bonus question? I really wanted
Speaker 1: this streamer. I will tell you what. I will tie
Speaker 1: you the streamer anyway, just for being a good sport
Speaker 1: and playing along. Oh thanks, Joe, I appreciate that. That
Speaker 1: that was. That was pretty fun. Man. All I'm gonna
Speaker 1: do is cut some yellow foam into the shape of
Speaker 1: a barrel and superglue it to a hook so it
Speaker 1: will only take a hot minute. As long as articulated.
Speaker 1: I don't care, you know. Actually that would be the ultimate.
Speaker 1: You tie a bunch of little barrels onto and articulate
Speaker 1: like the whole thing making the chain of barrels. Oh man,
Speaker 1: you're gonna get me in trouble because now people are
Speaker 1: gonna be like, you have to do that, and I'm
Speaker 1: gonna have to spend time doing that. Anyway, that was fun.
Speaker 1: Uh money munstache, there you go. Okay, it was if
Speaker 1: we give him a little bit for the first one,
Speaker 1: but hell, look why not keep the fun and the
Speaker 1: trivia going. This all rolls beautifully into a trivia segment
Speaker 1: I recorded a while back. Um pre hating times. That's
Speaker 1: okay with our good buddy and and Mako Angler extraordinary
Speaker 1: Conway Bowman and like Jaws, these questions Marry Shark fact
Speaker 1: with Hollywood Shark Fiction. Started from the bottom. Now we're here,
Speaker 1: started from the bottom. Now the whole team here, uh
Speaker 1: joining me today for trivia. My old buddy Conway Bowman
Speaker 1: is back. What's going on? Man? How are you Joe?
Speaker 1: I'm doing well? Man, hanging in there. Excellent, excellent. So
Speaker 1: just to recap, you're a pioneer fly fishing from Mako sharks,
Speaker 1: guided all over the world, written all kinds of books,
Speaker 1: been in all kinds of TV shows, And the first
Speaker 1: time I had you on, we did covering Water, we
Speaker 1: did the rapid Fire thing, and really got to know
Speaker 1: who you were. We learned that you don't like large
Speaker 1: mouth bass, that you love body and point break and
Speaker 1: um are big. You took black Flag over social distortion,
Speaker 1: if I remember correctly, and I admired that. So we're
Speaker 1: gonna do We're gonna do regular trivia today. So this
Speaker 1: is multiple choice, right, not rapid fire. You can take
Speaker 1: all the time that you need, sort of bar room style.
Speaker 1: Um and uh, just so you know that there's there's
Speaker 1: there's nothing to You can lose some dignity, but you
Speaker 1: win nothing. I have no prize for you if you
Speaker 1: if you ace both of these. But um, I think
Speaker 1: I think, well, I really try to like tailor these
Speaker 1: questions to my guests, you know, like really drill down
Speaker 1: on on who you are. So hopefully I I did
Speaker 1: a good job here. So are you ready to play trivia? All? Right?
Speaker 1: Here we go we'll do two questions today. Here comes
Speaker 1: number one. Short fin Mako sharks are one of the
Speaker 1: fastest sharks in the ocean. As you know, they can
Speaker 1: also be very aggressive, which has led people to wonder
Speaker 1: how dangerous they are to humans. The International Shark Attack
Speaker 1: File or I s a F, is kept up to
Speaker 1: date by the Florida Museum. So the question is, between
Speaker 1: the years of fifteen eighty and seventeen, how many unprovoked
Speaker 1: mako attacks on humans does I s a F have
Speaker 1: on file? Keep in mind, we're not talking about Marty
Speaker 1: and already getting bit bringing one into the boat off Montauk.
Speaker 1: These are completely unprovoked attacks. Is it A three, B
Speaker 1: ten C one or D six three? Uh? The answer
Speaker 1: is actually ten. Now I question the accuracy of those
Speaker 1: distant records. They say this is accurate going back to
Speaker 1: the late fifteen hundreds, But according to the I s
Speaker 1: a F ten people have had unprovoked attacks by makos
Speaker 1: and a whopping four and thirty seven years. So actually,
Speaker 1: like they're one of even though they're mean looking bastards,
Speaker 1: they're one of the least dangerous sharks to humans. Well
Speaker 1: that's really interesting, I think. Um. Uh. The because they
Speaker 1: inhabit deeper water. If you believe me, if I make
Speaker 1: a shark inhabited shallower water, right, they would be right.
Speaker 1: They're they're just really not where people are as part
Speaker 1: of the deal. They're an open water fish. To be
Speaker 1: honest with you, if I were on a sinking boat
Speaker 1: and I had a Great White on the starboard side,
Speaker 1: and I had a Mako on the port side, and
Speaker 1: they were a people size, I would jump off the
Speaker 1: side of the Great White hands down, wow, just because
Speaker 1: because that was a hot tip right there. If ever
Speaker 1: that sharks are so crazy, unpredictable, goofy, they are, like,
Speaker 1: they're right, they're scary. Okay, Well, speaking of having a
Speaker 1: shark on the starboards side, we'll go on to our
Speaker 1: next question here we'll keep up with our shark theme.
Speaker 1: Ready for this one. In the classic rom com Joe
Speaker 1: versus the Volcano, Tom Hanks and Meg Ryan do a
Speaker 1: little trolling off the sailboat that's taking them to the
Speaker 1: island of Wa pony Wou, where you might recall the
Speaker 1: natives drank nothing but orange soda. Anyway, Hanks only catches
Speaker 1: one fish during that trolling session, and it's a shark,
Speaker 1: which kind of shark. Was it a a great white,
Speaker 1: be a tiger shark, see a black tip? D a
Speaker 1: hammer head? Hammer head? Did you get Is that a
Speaker 1: guest or do you know that that's correct? That's correct
Speaker 1: because that's so Hollywood because it looks cool. It's a well,
Speaker 1: I'm getting the impression you're not too faglary with Joe
Speaker 1: Versus the Volcano, where many people are not. Oh, that's
Speaker 1: a shame. It's not really because it's a shitty movie.
Speaker 1: But I think it's a shame because I was gonna say,
Speaker 1: bonus question, what does the hammer head shark do when
Speaker 1: Hanks hooks it? You wouldn't know that, but it bends
Speaker 1: its eyes inward to look right at him and it roars,
Speaker 1: which is very very Hollywood. Um anyway, dude, um No.
Speaker 1: So that's your your one for two, your one for two.
Speaker 1: You just got lucky on Joe Versus Volcano. Your homework
Speaker 1: next time we talk is you have to see that
Speaker 1: movie and watch all the bonus features if there are
Speaker 1: any on the Blue Red tonight. I'll be watching with
Speaker 1: the kids. Are you gonna tell me that I have
Speaker 1: to watch Joe Versus the Volcano? No? I mean I
Speaker 1: mean you should, right, it's no turner and hooch, but
Speaker 1: I do highly recommend it. But no, no, no, no.
Speaker 1: Knowing knowing Joe versus the volcano inside and out is
Speaker 1: not a requirement to be my friend. So it's okay,
Speaker 1: you don't have to you don't have the I don't
Speaker 1: want to be your friend, man, I don't want to
Speaker 1: be your friend, at least not for the next twenty
Speaker 1: five minutes while I'm kicking your ass in that weekly
Speaker 1: competition we like to call fish news. Fish news. That
Speaker 1: escalated quickly. So before we get all news, e guess
Speaker 1: what we are happy to inform you, in case you
Speaker 1: haven't figured it out already, that there is now a
Speaker 1: line of new Bent merchandise in the Meat Eaters store. Yes, sir,
Speaker 1: we've We've been getting asked about that since about a
Speaker 1: week after this podcast first launch, but anyway, it's finally here.
Speaker 1: So what have we got. We've got the Degenerate Angler
Speaker 1: hoodie with the Bent logo over the back shoulder, which
Speaker 1: I find that to be like very Boston hardcore. I
Speaker 1: love the placement of the logo on the back shoulder.
Speaker 1: We've got Degenerate Angler T shirts and we also have
Speaker 1: a fresh design courtesy of um noted fish tattoo artist
Speaker 1: Drew Wilson. I'm pretty pumped about. Yeah, it really captures
Speaker 1: what Ben is all about. I'd say, you know, it's
Speaker 1: a small amountain in its mouth. It's a broken off
Speaker 1: streamer and a popper and and alive helgramite. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: because like we were kind of like, we don't give
Speaker 1: a ship. How you fish, That's what we're all about here,
Speaker 1: Like all are welcome, uh, peace, love and harmony. If
Speaker 1: you throw flies, poppers and live it on the same day,
Speaker 1: that's totally cool with us. So that designed from Jews
Speaker 1: sort of sort of captures the Ben ethos. I would say,
Speaker 1: I I agree, and uh a Joe before we move
Speaker 1: on here, man, Um yeah, yeah, we gotta kind of
Speaker 1: address something. This is sort of serious um at Ben here,
Speaker 1: Like we like to joke around, and I've realized recently
Speaker 1: that we've crossed the line with something that we've said. Um,
Speaker 1: you're making me extremely nervous because I could think of
Speaker 1: like ten things in the last three episode we at
Speaker 1: Ben uh continuously joke about how unfun wally or to
Speaker 1: catch And I gotta say, Joe, I was totally don't
Speaker 1: apologize that they don't fight. That's the big apology. I
Speaker 1: stand by Seth and Chester in particular because Man, I
Speaker 1: was out on the ice the other day and Joe,
Speaker 1: I caught my first walleye ever through the ice. Congratulations
Speaker 1: and you'll never forget it. Your arms still hurt, honestly, Man,
Speaker 1: you know, I was kind of delighted. Man, you know
Speaker 1: we so first off, it's ridiculous first off, And I mean,
Speaker 1: I know that may surprise people that I've never caught
Speaker 1: a walleye. Um. I think that there are a lot
Speaker 1: of fish that, you know, people would expect folks to catch,
Speaker 1: and like you're just like kind of like a I
Speaker 1: don't know, a species that just kind of evades them
Speaker 1: for like one reason or another. Maybe it was like
Speaker 1: a lack of interest in going out for maybe it
Speaker 1: was something you've tried a couple of the more interesting
Speaker 1: fish swimming in shot. What's what's a fish? Joe? Actually,
Speaker 1: this would be a good question for our listeners. What
Speaker 1: is a fish that it seems like everybody but you
Speaker 1: has caught, well, like like like a fish that you
Speaker 1: would be expected to catch, but for whatever reason have not,
Speaker 1: Like maybe like a catfish like a flathead or something
Speaker 1: like that. Maybe, uh, maybe somebody would expect you to
Speaker 1: have caught I don't know, pike or something. Do you
Speaker 1: have one of those, um man, the one that comes
Speaker 1: to mind. People are always surprised that I've never caught
Speaker 1: a bourbon. I um, I recently saw my first bourbon
Speaker 1: being caught, uh two days ago with my buddy Sam
Speaker 1: longren Um. You know I called bourbon. No, I've just
Speaker 1: never been on the ice where they are northern Michigan.
Speaker 1: I've had some invites. I've had some invites. I just
Speaker 1: haven't gotten there. But don't let's enough about me. I
Speaker 1: want I want to hear more quickly about why this
Speaker 1: walleye was so memorable and why you're apologize, Because every
Speaker 1: time I've caught a walleye through the ice, even a
Speaker 1: big one, right, you were you using a flasher? Yes,
Speaker 1: I was, okay, So that's exciting. You see him on
Speaker 1: the flash, You're like, oh, well there he is, boom,
Speaker 1: got him And before you can even say got him,
Speaker 1: his head is coming up through the ice. Every time
Speaker 1: I did it, well, it's like that's done. Yeah. I
Speaker 1: mean to me, as a lot of things and fishing
Speaker 1: tend to be. This was the more of a realization
Speaker 1: of a long time goal. When I first got into
Speaker 1: ice fishing, like as a kid, it was on a
Speaker 1: lake called Lake wall and Pop back in Pennsylvania, and
Speaker 1: I remember when we were going to visit this lake,
Speaker 1: my dad told me that there were a wallly in
Speaker 1: this lake. And up until then, I had primarily fished
Speaker 1: for where like you know, trout and bass and like
Speaker 1: sunfish and just ship like that, because that's what was
Speaker 1: accessible in most of the bodies of water that we
Speaker 1: had gone to. Up until this point in time. I
Speaker 1: had never like gone to like a species sort of destination,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. Like I'd never like gone
Speaker 1: somewhere with like the promise of, oh, by the way,
Speaker 1: there's something that you don't normally come in contact with
Speaker 1: swimming around on the bottom. So we got into ice
Speaker 1: fishing that year, and the first goal that I ever
Speaker 1: had ice fishing was like, I'm gonna set all these
Speaker 1: tip ups and I'm gonna catch a wall that was
Speaker 1: like eleven ten years old, and uh, you know, I
Speaker 1: just never did it, and I ended up not ice
Speaker 1: fishing very much more because it doesn't seem like we
Speaker 1: get that much ice in Pennsylvania, you know, as of
Speaker 1: late anyhow, And um so pulling a wal live through
Speaker 1: the ice was like ten year old me was real
Speaker 1: excited about it. And you catch this one on a
Speaker 1: tip up jagged and I jagged it with a thirteen
Speaker 1: flashbang no less. Oh nice. Nice. We got a bunch
Speaker 1: of pictures of it. Um yeah, man, Because I'm no
Speaker 1: Wally Ice expert, but all the Wally Ice guys that
Speaker 1: I've hung out with, they're like, tip ups isn't the
Speaker 1: way to go for wall No, Like you gotta tease them,
Speaker 1: you gotta make them, you gotta make them want it,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. Yeah, And another like kind
Speaker 1: of like unique challenge out here is that we can't
Speaker 1: use live bait in the form of shiners or anything
Speaker 1: like that. So basically all your tip ups are dead sticks.
Speaker 1: I mean, we do like nightcrawlers for trout, which like
Speaker 1: move around a little bit, but it's not like the
Speaker 1: same as you're having a shiner on there. But anyhow, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I really issue that apologies more of a way to
Speaker 1: kind of segue into talking about my first walleye And
Speaker 1: that was pretty great experience and I think my attitude
Speaker 1: is going to change on them. I kind of do
Speaker 1: see the appeal of the walleye, particularly when you eat them. Dude,
Speaker 1: Holy crap, that is a good inating fish. Anybody who's
Speaker 1: a walle eye through the ice or like the best
Speaker 1: eating fish man, I think you're probably right. Anyhow, any
Speaker 1: any fresh water fish for the ice is better eating.
Speaker 1: I'll give you that much cold water baby, that's where
Speaker 1: it's at. So cool. So you're a walleye guy, now
Speaker 1: you could you could just transcribe everything you just said
Speaker 1: for the fore whatever your book walleye and me by
Speaker 1: hating samac when that comes out a memoir. Anyway, you've
Speaker 1: gone on way long enough here. Um, you know, so
Speaker 1: you're you're patting yourself against those walleyes. Now we're peating
Speaker 1: ourselves against each other. Let's not forget this is a competition.
Speaker 1: At the end of this Dog and Pony Show, and
Speaker 1: while I extravaganza, our mentor colleague and Audio Addonna's Phil
Speaker 1: Taylor will declare a winner and uh you, sir, have
Speaker 1: the floor to lead off this week with news. Okay, dook,
Speaker 1: So this morning we're gonna talk a little bit about
Speaker 1: hatchery steelhead because I'm sick of talking about how bad
Speaker 1: it is for wild steelhead in the Pacific Northwest. Oh okay,
Speaker 1: of course we are going to talk a little bit
Speaker 1: about that too, of course you are. So this is
Speaker 1: gonna be a little bit of a non traditional fish
Speaker 1: news story, as I'm going to kind of touch on
Speaker 1: a couple of different stories to paint a bigger picture.
Speaker 1: The overarching theme of this story comes from the news
Speaker 1: motion who reported on researchers explore new ways to make
Speaker 1: hatchery steelhead more like wild fish. Now, we all know
Speaker 1: that hatchery steelhead, uh, they don't spawn even kind of
Speaker 1: as well as wild steel head. Spawning ability, or the
Speaker 1: ability to reproduce in general, is known as fecundity. Uh.
Speaker 1: Now that's one term. There's another term, another f word,
Speaker 1: if you will, and that is fitness. When fisheries biologists
Speaker 1: use the term fitness, what they're describing is a hatchery
Speaker 1: fish's ability to survive and thrive in the wild. So, right,
Speaker 1: fecundity and fitness speak of wild let's talk about the
Speaker 1: state of wild steel head. Here are some statistics. Isn't
Speaker 1: that what you just said you weren't going to talk
Speaker 1: about I said I was going to touch on it.
Speaker 1: Here are some statistics, as reported by the Vancouver Sun.
Speaker 1: In less than forty steel head ran up the Chilco River. UH.
Speaker 1: In the Thompson River, just two hundred and three steel
Speaker 1: head were observed returning to spawn. I think that was
Speaker 1: last year. I'm not sure that. Um. The Vancouver Sun
Speaker 1: also reports that ten percent of the steelhead population in
Speaker 1: the Chilcotton River system, and by ten percent, I mean
Speaker 1: to fish, uh, they ended up in gillnets. It's very,
Speaker 1: very not good. And that's like that's mostly interior steelhead.
Speaker 1: But so it makes sense that we're investing in the
Speaker 1: betterment of these fish hatchery programs not only to increase
Speaker 1: angler opportunity, but also as a way to eventually boost
Speaker 1: the numbers of fish that behave as if they were
Speaker 1: wild and hopefully increase the population to self sustaining numbers.
Speaker 1: So let's talk about the I'm gonna wait for the
Speaker 1: end here. I want to hear the conclusion. But I
Speaker 1: mean what you just said, Like, you know, there's a
Speaker 1: lot of people listening in the Pacific Northwest who are
Speaker 1: totally disagreeing with Oh yeah, I mean, I mean sure,
Speaker 1: and real quick like to touch on that I understand,
Speaker 1: and like, yeah, I am. I'm of the mind that
Speaker 1: habitat restoration and like aggressive environmental policy is probably the
Speaker 1: way to go in order to maintain these wild steel headstocks.
Speaker 1: And you can look at other examples in wildlife management,
Speaker 1: like for instance, um, you know, one of our great
Speaker 1: success stories in American conservation, right is the reintroduction of
Speaker 1: the wild turkey. And when they first tried to reintroduce
Speaker 1: the wild turkey, uh, they would raise these pulse you know,
Speaker 1: in captivity and then they would release them. And you
Speaker 1: know what would essentially had there was a put in
Speaker 1: take program, because those wild turkeys wouldn't really develop, you know,
Speaker 1: populations that could sustain themselves, Like they weren't reproducing in
Speaker 1: meaningful ways and it's just kind of a waste of
Speaker 1: time and money. Then what they did was they recaptured
Speaker 1: a lot of wild wild turkeys in like strongholds like
Speaker 1: I think in Alabama, like places like that, and then
Speaker 1: they repopulated their native range with these captured birds. A
Speaker 1: couple decades later, you know, we got wild turkeys everywhere.
Speaker 1: So I don't think that like stocking basically stocking a
Speaker 1: bunch of steelhead is the answer. But then I also
Speaker 1: don't think that, you know, raising I'm not sure it's
Speaker 1: entirely analogous, Like just because it didn't work in that
Speaker 1: instance doesn't mean it won't work in this instance. And
Speaker 1: you also got to think about the purity of the
Speaker 1: stocks and the specific strains, and you know, I, I
Speaker 1: don't know, man, I I think it's like a discussion
Speaker 1: to be had. I'm not maybe not the one to
Speaker 1: have a discussion about that. If you know a fisheries
Speaker 1: biologists in the Pacific Northwest, I talked to him or her.
Speaker 1: So anyway, all that aside, we're going to try and
Speaker 1: talk about a an instance where these programs aimed at
Speaker 1: giving hatchery steelhead wild qualities is like kind of being
Speaker 1: implemented and and we're so because of that, we're going
Speaker 1: to talk about the American River in northern coast essentially. Right,
Speaker 1: it's like, for lack of a better way to put it,
Speaker 1: they're trying to make better the hatchery fish. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: that's a good way to put it, right, Okay, So,
Speaker 1: per the stocking record, the California Department of Fish and
Speaker 1: Wildlife have already observed over nine hundred fish a mix
Speaker 1: of wild hatchery bread and juvenile fish entering the hatchery,
Speaker 1: which is up from just like three hundred fish counted
Speaker 1: at the same time last year. Now they're siting, Yeah,
Speaker 1: they're siting higher than average flows as one of the
Speaker 1: main reasons these fish are having a good year. So
Speaker 1: earlier we talked about fitness and fecundity. Again we see
Speaker 1: reduced fecundity of these hatchery fish because they don't have
Speaker 1: the same fitness as wild steelhead. Basically, hatchery fish going
Speaker 1: to the ocean get their asses kicked. This returning population
Speaker 1: of steelhead is a good thing and the reason that
Speaker 1: it's a good thing is that the American River Fish
Speaker 1: Hatchery seems to be experimenting with ways to reduce negative
Speaker 1: consequences associated with hatchery fish and it I guess it
Speaker 1: appears to be working. Um. According to the c d
Speaker 1: f W it's California Department Fish and Wildlife Fisheries, biologists
Speaker 1: at the American River Fish Hatchery are hoping to perpetuate
Speaker 1: a specific strain of steelhead, and that's the Eel River steelhead,
Speaker 1: which is it's a it's a larger strain, right, Whereas
Speaker 1: a lot of these wild fish get up to like,
Speaker 1: you know, eight ten pounds. These ones kind of tend
Speaker 1: to top out at fifteen, sixteen, seventeen pounds so they
Speaker 1: can fight off the giant squids and stuff when they're out. Yeah, yeah, exactly,
Speaker 1: they were larger and therefore presumably tougher. The American River
Speaker 1: Fish Hatchery is doing this by selecting fish exclusively of
Speaker 1: the Eel River strain. Like when they return, they okay,
Speaker 1: that's a Neel River strain, that's anil River strain, and
Speaker 1: they're only spawning returning hatchery origin fish, right, so they're
Speaker 1: kind of going, Okay, this one went out of the ocean,
Speaker 1: it came back big and strong. That's probably a good one.
Speaker 1: So they're like, you know, working on selection there. Um.
Speaker 1: So it's an example of ways that we're trying to
Speaker 1: use the hatcheries system, or fisheries bologists are trying to
Speaker 1: use the hatchery system and put a hand in selecting
Speaker 1: these fish that are gonna have higher levels of fitness
Speaker 1: and higher levels of fecundity and hopefully, because of that,
Speaker 1: make a a stronger strain of fish that could one
Speaker 1: day have self sustaining stocks. So, I mean, is this
Speaker 1: good news for steelhead on the level of a complete
Speaker 1: return of a wild run. No, But is it a
Speaker 1: step in the right direction for hatchery fish looking to
Speaker 1: create a sustainable population of Steele's Like maybe? Um. Either way,
Speaker 1: it's a big year for steelhead in the American River.
Speaker 1: And no matter how you look at it, that's a
Speaker 1: good thing for anglers. It's it's very interesting and I
Speaker 1: appreciate what they're doing. And I feel like, no matter
Speaker 1: how you slice it, you're gonna get a different answer
Speaker 1: from anglers out there. This is good or this is bad.
Speaker 1: And you know what, I I fully understand it. I'm
Speaker 1: not well versed in West coast steel but I will
Speaker 1: say and I think most anglers would agree. Wild fish
Speaker 1: are it's cooler, They're sexier. That's always what we want
Speaker 1: to catch. You love great legs, steel, I love great
Speaker 1: lakes steel. Are they fun? Hell? Yeah? But like is
Speaker 1: that as cool as catching a wild No? It's not so, man,
Speaker 1: It's kind of like, is this is this really? Maybe?
Speaker 1: Sort of the the best thing we can hope for
Speaker 1: is building a better hatchery fish based on fish that
Speaker 1: are going to the ocean. Maybe. But then if I
Speaker 1: look at it, like if my beloved striped bass all
Speaker 1: went away, all those wild runs up to Delaware, I mean,
Speaker 1: everything we have here. If it was just like down
Speaker 1: to nothing and somebody was like, m, we can create
Speaker 1: hatchery fish, and and maybe it's hard to say like it.
Speaker 1: I would say, yes, it's better than nothing, but it
Speaker 1: would never it would still never be the same. You're
Speaker 1: still not fixing like the big problem. But that doesn't
Speaker 1: mean it's not cool science. Like I said, I appreciate
Speaker 1: what they're doing. Um, there comes a point with like
Speaker 1: any sort of wildlife management, right where you have to
Speaker 1: look at what you have and what you can reasonably
Speaker 1: expect to regain. Right In a lot of cases, you're saying, okay,
Speaker 1: I would rather have wildfish, and I think everybody would
Speaker 1: agree with you. There is not a single fisheries a
Speaker 1: boulogist that would be like, no, we'd rather have hatchery fish,
Speaker 1: of course, of course. But the question I would pose
Speaker 1: to them is this, if you could have a strain
Speaker 1: of wild steel head, because you know, like the Eel
Speaker 1: River steel head, that's where a lot of these like
Speaker 1: stocks are coming from. If you could have that strain
Speaker 1: of steel head preserved in such a way that like
Speaker 1: they continued to exist, even if the genesis of that
Speaker 1: was an artificial hatchery condition. If you don't have nothing anyway,
Speaker 1: why not have that? I completely agree, and I think
Speaker 1: that's what I'm saying, like, like, it would be foolish
Speaker 1: to be like stop this madness were wildfish like you, like,
Speaker 1: these people are doing some cool stuff, and it is
Speaker 1: there is a preservation tactic there. And again we're not
Speaker 1: talking about like putting it in uh you know, we're
Speaker 1: talking about the American River here, and if you don't know,
Speaker 1: like the American River, it's like it's in Sacramento, you
Speaker 1: know what I mean. We're not we're not talking about
Speaker 1: doing it like the you know, the babbying. But it
Speaker 1: could be a model for that if it ever got
Speaker 1: to that that. I think, as with so many tools
Speaker 1: in conservation, I think it can be tailored to like
Speaker 1: the fishery in which the biologists are discussing, like, is
Speaker 1: the model for the American River going to be the
Speaker 1: same model that like you know they take to the Frasier. No,
Speaker 1: of course it's not gonna be the same model. Well yeah,
Speaker 1: I will say, like I know, we've got some steelheaders
Speaker 1: listening right in. Let us know what you think I would.
Speaker 1: I'd be happy to read some of those responses known
Speaker 1: to show down the road. Please enter your pass word.
Speaker 1: You have one unheard message hidden. Where are you? What
Speaker 1: we were supposed to be at? My parents? Has an
Speaker 1: hour on my way with the dog. You're out fishing.
Speaker 1: We need to have a conversation when you get home,
Speaker 1: because this is getting absolutely ridiculous. Community. At this end
Speaker 1: of the message, delete press seven save deleted. So I'll
Speaker 1: move it over here. From fish, we're trying to get
Speaker 1: more of two fish. We are completely trying to get
Speaker 1: rid of about that. Uh and and I will I
Speaker 1: gotta say I was tempted to grab a story for
Speaker 1: for this week with the following headline. Hamas claims it
Speaker 1: has captured and Israeli spied dolf and equipped with weapons
Speaker 1: and capable of assassinating its fighters off of Gaza. Because
Speaker 1: the image of the dolphin with the spear gun on
Speaker 1: its head is just straight Austin powers. You know, I
Speaker 1: have one simple request, and that is to have sharks
Speaker 1: with freaking later beans attached to their heads. But while
Speaker 1: I was intriguing, it was just too far off the mark,
Speaker 1: Like it was just too far off mark. Plus so
Speaker 1: many of you sent along the catfish story out of Texas.
Speaker 1: I felt covering it was the right thing to do.
Speaker 1: So let's go to Texas and learn about um an
Speaker 1: invasive species that's a real pain in the ask and
Speaker 1: offers zero benefit to anglers, absolutely none. So we are
Speaker 1: talking about the sucker mouth armored catfish, otherwise known as
Speaker 1: plecos in the aquarium trade. And according to the story
Speaker 1: on Yahoo Knews, a team of researchers from Texas, A
Speaker 1: and M in Texas State recently pulled four six sucker
Speaker 1: mouth armored catfish from the San Marcos River quote during
Speaker 1: a dewatering event at a public park. So scientists are
Speaker 1: hoping that studying some of the fish collected will help
Speaker 1: them figure out how best to control them um. The
Speaker 1: story says, originating from the waters of South America, the
Speaker 1: sucker mouth is an aquarium fish that was released into
Speaker 1: the wild and has grown out of control of the
Speaker 1: Texas Parks and Wildlife Department said. The armored catfish is
Speaker 1: a long way from home swimming around Texas waterways, but
Speaker 1: it has thrived anyway to the detriment of the state's
Speaker 1: natural ecology. Um So now these fish might be commonly
Speaker 1: labeled as Pleco's at the pet Smart. I don't know
Speaker 1: if you had these as a kid. I always called
Speaker 1: them algae eaters. Yeah. I had these as a kid.
Speaker 1: And um, if you remember a couple of months ago,
Speaker 1: I told a story about the fish tank that burned
Speaker 1: your house down almost the fish tank that almost you know,
Speaker 1: killed my entire family, and uh, there were plecas swing
Speaker 1: around that thing. Yeah, those are always my favorite ones.
Speaker 1: Oh see really, because I was gonna say, like if
Speaker 1: a lot of people had these when they were a kid,
Speaker 1: and the appeal was they were supposed to eat all
Speaker 1: the green and brown algae in your tanks, which was
Speaker 1: great because cleaning fish tank sucks and when you're a kid,
Speaker 1: a lot of times your tank just goes to complete hell.
Speaker 1: It's just like, you know, disgusting. But I was gonna say,
Speaker 1: other than that, like they were I thought they were
Speaker 1: the most useless, ugly, boring addition to any tank. They
Speaker 1: don't they don't do anything, man, I see. The appeal
Speaker 1: to me was like they kind of look like sharky. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean, but I don't know. I thought they were
Speaker 1: just like an eyesore, like just sucked onto the glass
Speaker 1: somewhere like they would move overnight once and not again
Speaker 1: all day. But that's neither here nor that. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1: Did you ever try and catch any of the fish
Speaker 1: in your fish tank when you're a kid? No? I
Speaker 1: never did, And I even had later in life some
Speaker 1: game fish in the tank. I love feeding them, but no,
Speaker 1: I never caught them. My brother and I did try
Speaker 1: and catch that plico once or twice. Yeah, but it
Speaker 1: was but it was hard, Which is kind of going
Speaker 1: to tie into the rest of this story, because the
Speaker 1: thing is, they are apparently indestructible. So according to the piece,
Speaker 1: and doesn't this sound familiar snakehead lovers, they can breathe
Speaker 1: out of water for quote at least twenty hours and
Speaker 1: walk on land. How they would calculate this at roughly
Speaker 1: two point three miles per hour one of them, Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's what that's that's what okay? For how long? Like
Speaker 1: if it can move apparently up to twenty hours, If
Speaker 1: it can breathe out of water for at least twenty
Speaker 1: hours and walk two point three I would I have
Speaker 1: friends that cannot maintain a two point three base. They
Speaker 1: can get from Center City to the Philly Airport in
Speaker 1: thirteen point nine minutes. I don't know, um anyway, One
Speaker 1: of the most common ways they get moved is by birds,
Speaker 1: because plecos are really easy targets, but they are so
Speaker 1: sharp and hard and spiky that a bird usually drops
Speaker 1: them pretty quickly, and assuming they survived the fall, depending
Speaker 1: on how high up they are um quote, the fish
Speaker 1: could potentially walk for hours until it finds a body
Speaker 1: of water that's horrifying. That sucks. They can't swim for
Speaker 1: more than ten minutes straight, so how they can walk
Speaker 1: for hours? I don't understand. They're a lazy as fish. Um. Now.
Speaker 1: While these fish are primarily eating algae and plant matter,
Speaker 1: they do compete with some native species for food. But
Speaker 1: the story says they've also taken over in parts of Florida,
Speaker 1: and they're so many in some places they'll actually swarm
Speaker 1: manatees to eat the algae off their skin. And there
Speaker 1: can be so many plecos on on the manateee that
Speaker 1: it gets severely stressed out like mad manatees stress. So
Speaker 1: that's clearly an issue. If you're in the manatees story,
Speaker 1: to tell you when we're off the air in a minute, Okay,
Speaker 1: fair enough, I do too, kind of now, everybody's gonna
Speaker 1: be curious. Yeah, mine ends with a cracked transom on
Speaker 1: a flat skiff anyway. Um So, a bigger issue with
Speaker 1: the catfish than what they eat is actually how they
Speaker 1: like to burrow in soft banks, and the people in
Speaker 1: Texas are worried that's gonna ramp up bank erosion and
Speaker 1: like destabilized river banks and things more quickly. Uh So,
Speaker 1: you know invasives never good, right of course, but this
Speaker 1: one has absolutely no silver lining. And I'm not surprised
Speaker 1: this happened because those fish, I don't know about yours,
Speaker 1: but they eventually get big in your tank and they
Speaker 1: live forever. So whether it outgrows the tank, you just
Speaker 1: decide to like go to college, and you don't want
Speaker 1: your tank anymore, like pet stores don't want those things back. Right,
Speaker 1: you can't flush it because it would be like flushing
Speaker 1: a metal porkupin Right, you can run it over with
Speaker 1: a truck and it'll be fine. Um, but in the wild,
Speaker 1: it's not good for bait. It's nothing you can target.
Speaker 1: It's just pretty worthless. So my opinion banned them, like, honestly,
Speaker 1: if they're that much of a problem, we've banned so
Speaker 1: many other aquarium fish that were much prettier and more interesting,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, like hashtags stop the pleco
Speaker 1: Uh they're stupid fish anyway, So you know, it really
Speaker 1: is like an interesting thing. Um, it's weird to think
Speaker 1: that when you're talking about buying like mamillion creatures or
Speaker 1: like like like a like a servile cat or something
Speaker 1: like that spider monkey. Yeah, there's so much red tape
Speaker 1: and like, right of those things finding each other in
Speaker 1: the wild, even if you were to release them is
Speaker 1: not particularly high up there. Yet you can buy like
Speaker 1: all sorts of like invasive fish, and you can buy
Speaker 1: breathing populations basically of invasive fish. Yep, there could easily
Speaker 1: find their way into a waterway, and like that's like
Speaker 1: still totally okay because it's fish, dude, it's underwater. Only
Speaker 1: certain people care. People in the neighborhood will be worried
Speaker 1: about a couple of loose spider monkeys. They don't give
Speaker 1: a ship that there's armored catfish in the pond out there.
Speaker 1: That's just that's just the reality. That's just the reality. Anyway. Um, Yeah,
Speaker 1: there you go. Everybody who wrote in thank you for
Speaker 1: that one armored catfish. Done and done, Let's go to Phil.
Speaker 1: What does he want swimming in his river? Hatchery steelhead
Speaker 1: or plecos And after we hear from Phil, we're actually
Speaker 1: gonna hit end of the line. And this segment is
Speaker 1: kind of the antithesis of an article I published this
Speaker 1: week on the Meat Eater site for misconceptions about mousing
Speaker 1: for trout. About that, so give that a read. And
Speaker 1: if you decide mousing for trout sounds like too much work,
Speaker 1: forget that article and pay even closer attention and to
Speaker 1: the forthcoming end of the line segment. Hey, Hayden, you're
Speaker 1: the winner this week. I just can't help but feel
Speaker 1: bad for these hatchery steelhead. I mean, that would be
Speaker 1: kind of like if a human were to spend most
Speaker 1: of their formative years playing trombone and video games, and
Speaker 1: then eventually down the road, maybe they got a job
Speaker 1: in an office full of self sustaining hunters and outdoors people.
Speaker 1: I mean, can you imagine what that would do to my,
Speaker 1: I mean, this person's self esteem. M hm, well that's
Speaker 1: not loud enough, Burt. If you listen to my last
Speaker 1: end of the line on Swiss wings, you know I
Speaker 1: have a soft spot for fishing related nostalgia, So it
Speaker 1: should come as no surprise that we're going to walk
Speaker 1: down those familiar back roads again now with a bait.
Speaker 1: I believe every angler has had an experience with at
Speaker 1: one point or another. I think everyone knows the smell
Speaker 1: that musty, sweet, funky odor emanating from pretty much every
Speaker 1: tackle box you know. It just smells like fishing. I
Speaker 1: also think that everyone who has used this particular item
Speaker 1: has had the shared experience where after a day on
Speaker 1: the water, you walk in and a loved one gives
Speaker 1: you a kind of amused look, then gets closer and
Speaker 1: says you have glitter on your face. Of course, I'm
Speaker 1: talking about power Bait. Now. Power Bait is actually the
Speaker 1: brand name for a bunch of Berkeley Soft plastic creations,
Speaker 1: but the forum I'm talking about is known as power
Speaker 1: Bait Dough. Before we get into power Bait, let's clarify something.
Speaker 1: Berkeley has been around for a while. The company was
Speaker 1: founded in seven by a young man named Berkeley Biddell,
Speaker 1: selling flies in Spirit Lake, Iowa. Let's fast forward it's
Speaker 1: the mid eighties and Berkeley has since been taken over
Speaker 1: by Berkeley Baddell's son, Tom, looking out for the next
Speaker 1: big thing. Tombadel becomes focused on attractings and unless the
Speaker 1: help of Dr Hermann Clear Cooper, a fisheries biologist from
Speaker 1: Texas A and M who invents Strike. Berkeley's first scent product, Strike, however,
Speaker 1: had a major flaw. It was a topical scent product
Speaker 1: and washed off baits easily. But Dell knew he needed
Speaker 1: to develop a longer lasting attracting and puts chemist John
Speaker 1: proc Now and fisheries biologist Dr. Keith Jones up to
Speaker 1: the task. Through meticulous research, over the span of three years,
Speaker 1: proc Now and Jones began to develop what become power
Speaker 1: bait by reverse engineering natural prey, breaking that prey down
Speaker 1: into basic molecular components and amino acids. To test the
Speaker 1: palatability of these individual elements, they soak cotton balls in
Speaker 1: their formulas and fed them to fish in their lab.
Speaker 1: They soon discovered that no single element was having the
Speaker 1: effect that they wanted, so they began testing combinations of
Speaker 1: natural and synthetic compounds. These combinations proved to be more effective,
Speaker 1: and they eventually landed on an attractive formula we know
Speaker 1: today as power bait. Power bait comes in many forms,
Speaker 1: notably it's integrated into Berkeley Soft Plastics. But the form
Speaker 1: I'm most familiar with is the power bait dough. As
Speaker 1: any stocker fisherman knows, those pellet has just can't seem
Speaker 1: to resist that sent and fused plato floating, tantalizing lee
Speaker 1: just off the bottom. I still remember fishing Salt and
Speaker 1: Creek with my grandpa and him carefully showing me how
Speaker 1: to need little corn kernel size balls of this stuff,
Speaker 1: then how to carefully mold it around my hook. An
Speaker 1: interesting note about Berkeley power Bait dough. Many folks seem
Speaker 1: to think it's toxic, and that's not the case. The
Speaker 1: dough itself is made of a heat treated mixture of
Speaker 1: PVC powder and oil resin and is completely digestible, although
Speaker 1: it is very obviously not for human consumption, so please
Speaker 1: leave leading to the fish. If you've got something on
Speaker 1: the end of your line that you think belongs on
Speaker 1: the end of our line, feel free to write into
Speaker 1: Bent at the meat eater dot com with your suggestions,
Speaker 1: and if you got a good story about power bait,
Speaker 1: send that into you know what man. I vividly remember
Speaker 1: the very first time I ever used power bait for trout.
Speaker 1: Like I remember hanging out at my grandparents house the
Speaker 1: night before opening day of the trout season in Jersey,
Speaker 1: and my grandfather, Um, he'd just gotten back from the
Speaker 1: bait shop, and you know, he picked up our nightcrawlers
Speaker 1: and mealies and salmon eggs and he busted out this
Speaker 1: jar of power bait and said something like, you know, here,
Speaker 1: here's some here's some new ship. That guy was saying,
Speaker 1: we'll catch more trout than anything, like super skeptical. Like
Speaker 1: it was almost like an ad on sale, like the
Speaker 1: guy got him here. Sorry, you should try this, you
Speaker 1: know how it works. You know, I honestly don't recall
Speaker 1: if that O G bottle of orange PB caught trout
Speaker 1: or not an opening day, but it must have, because
Speaker 1: like my grandfather was never without it again, you know
Speaker 1: what I mean, Like from there on out he had
Speaker 1: power bait, and I even think he kind of phased
Speaker 1: out salmon eggs in favor of it. So I definitely
Speaker 1: called fish. I just don't remember if it did the
Speaker 1: first time out, you know. Yeah. Yeah. The thing that
Speaker 1: you know, I I mentioned this and the thing but
Speaker 1: the thing that I think about when I think of
Speaker 1: power bait is like it was almost like every person
Speaker 1: used power bait to try and like seam seal the
Speaker 1: inside of pockets, and they're like old school fishing vests,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. Like everything it would be
Speaker 1: like it just had a way of like crusting in there,
Speaker 1: and like I just feel like every like cre would
Speaker 1: be in your zippers, yeah, be everywhere that Yeah, because
Speaker 1: you would you would get it on your fingers and
Speaker 1: like wipe it here, and then it would lock into
Speaker 1: the FACTI I feel like I can smell it right now.
Speaker 1: But you know, whatever gets your limit right, yeah, oh totally, totally. Well,
Speaker 1: you know it's perfect that you bring up trout fishing
Speaker 1: is a little kid, because we've got a question the
Speaker 1: bent Helpline this week that speaks to any parents or
Speaker 1: grandparents out there that have a little limit catching machines,
Speaker 1: like young Joe used to be. What do you laughing at?
Speaker 1: You're not an idiot, you're not a gamblooning help more,
Speaker 1: You're a fisherman. What's your emergency? All right? Uh So
Speaker 1: today on the bent Helpline, we have a question from
Speaker 1: Evan Taylor, who writes Dear Ben. Let's say I am
Speaker 1: fishing in a state where human does not need a
Speaker 1: fishing license until there are fourteen. That's an interesting way
Speaker 1: to say a kid. It's a very interesting way to
Speaker 1: put it. Yeah, and let's say I like how this
Speaker 1: all like framed and hypothetical. And let's say the daily
Speaker 1: limit for bluegill and said state is twenty five for
Speaker 1: easy math per day. If I have my kids who
Speaker 1: are seven and five out fishing, does that mean my
Speaker 1: cooler could theoretically have seventy five blue gill in it?
Speaker 1: Or is the limit twenty five because I am the
Speaker 1: only one who paid for a license. Now, of course,
Speaker 1: anyone who's fished with kids, no, you're never going to
Speaker 1: limit with them along. But SI signed Evan Taylor. M hmm,
Speaker 1: you got any thoughts on that? Because I do you
Speaker 1: know what, man, I don't have kids. This is something
Speaker 1: that has never come up for me. I'm gonna let
Speaker 1: you deal with this one entirely. I'm just gonna sit
Speaker 1: back and listen. Yeah, And dear God, I hope I'm
Speaker 1: not giving out wrong information here. But my understanding has
Speaker 1: always been that if that basically legal is legal. In
Speaker 1: other words, if you don't need a license within your
Speaker 1: state till your fourteen. I think in some states it's
Speaker 1: it's fifteen, maybe thirteen, it varies. But point being, if
Speaker 1: you are not of legal age for a license, you
Speaker 1: are still legal in the state's eyes to be out fishing.
Speaker 1: So just thinking back to when I was growing up
Speaker 1: and you know, fishing with my dad, Like on opening
Speaker 1: day at trout, I would have my stringer and he
Speaker 1: would have his stringer. You know what I mean? Um,
Speaker 1: you know, I yes, I in theoretically you know now
Speaker 1: where where it gets gray is Um, I I've I've
Speaker 1: I've seen instances where you know, the kids aren't really
Speaker 1: fishing too hard, Dad puts his twelve on the stringer.
Speaker 1: That's shitty, Like that's that's that's sort of Also that
Speaker 1: um you know, gets into that argument of like when
Speaker 1: your saltwater fishing, is it cool for the captain to
Speaker 1: keep his limit for the day too if you want
Speaker 1: to bring home more whatever fluke or salmon on the
Speaker 1: Great Lakes? But I think I mean, if you're if
Speaker 1: your aim is true and your heart is pure, okay,
Speaker 1: and um you you really you really want your seventy
Speaker 1: five blue gills or whatever, and your kids are legit
Speaker 1: catching them. Um. Yeah, legally, I think absolutely, your your
Speaker 1: child is legal to fish and pretty sure that the
Speaker 1: same limits would would apply there. Yeah. Um, now, what
Speaker 1: if you were hooking the fish and the kids were
Speaker 1: reeling them in? And I have a follow up question
Speaker 1: of this you have? But see, now you're getting into
Speaker 1: semantics like that's the that's the problem with this, like
Speaker 1: is it? Let me ask you this, Let me ask
Speaker 1: you this. Here's the follow up. What is the difference
Speaker 1: between that and being on a charter fishing where the
Speaker 1: first mate is the one hooking all the fish and
Speaker 1: you're just reeling them in and gripping, grinning with them.
Speaker 1: Plenty of people do that and keep well, sure they do.
Speaker 1: But but again, man like, so in that scenario, if
Speaker 1: you're out on a charter boat, right, and uh, I mean,
Speaker 1: first of all, if I'm on a charter boat where
Speaker 1: the maid is hooking the fishing hand, he's gonna that
Speaker 1: is like a pet peeve of mine. I will not
Speaker 1: take a a rod. I will not take I will
Speaker 1: not be handed a rock. I got you. God, I
Speaker 1: hate that, right, I hate that. But I would say, um,
Speaker 1: you know, if you're if you're newbies, rookies, you booked
Speaker 1: a charter somewhere, you know, and the maids setting the
Speaker 1: hook on the troll or whatever it may be on
Speaker 1: it doesn't matter, on the bottom, and he's handing you
Speaker 1: the rod and you're okay with that, like that doesn't
Speaker 1: bother you. As long as you're only taking your limit
Speaker 1: as the angler, then what's the difference? You know what
Speaker 1: I'm saying. But what I'm comparing that too is like
Speaker 1: the kid on opening day where his dad is hooking
Speaker 1: the trout and like letting him reel the trout in.
Speaker 1: Now you kind of implied that you didn't think like
Speaker 1: maybe that was so cool. No, no, no no, no, you're
Speaker 1: misunderstanding completely. What I'm saying is, no, you are misunderstanding
Speaker 1: what I'm saying. What I'm saying is there's I think
Speaker 1: there's a little more leeway in taking your kid fishing
Speaker 1: and your kids standing there fishing with you in the
Speaker 1: water wade and sitting in the lawn chair whatever, and
Speaker 1: maybe he's too little, so you hook one and handing
Speaker 1: the rod. I mean, this is something I never have
Speaker 1: to worry about because I'm I don't care about keeping
Speaker 1: a limit right now of anything that my young kids
Speaker 1: would catch. Like we're not doing that right, so that
Speaker 1: that that's one thing what I'm saying is you go fishing,
Speaker 1: you bring your kid, Your kids off running around in
Speaker 1: the woods, are looking for fairies, flipping rocks and completely
Speaker 1: unengaged in what you're doing. But you're going to keep
Speaker 1: his or her six trout to if you're using them
Speaker 1: as a body, so that if somebody flagged you, you'd
Speaker 1: be like, well, I caught these six, and a little
Speaker 1: timmy here caught the other six. You know. But it's
Speaker 1: I mean, it's it's getting in the it's ultimately getting
Speaker 1: in the weeds, you know. It's it's it's about you.
Speaker 1: It's about effort. If you put in the effort, then
Speaker 1: it's like whatever. If you're using them is like a
Speaker 1: justification to keep you know, X amount of fish without
Speaker 1: the expectation that they're going to be actively involved in
Speaker 1: catching said fish, then that's what you don't like. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean, all all Evans question really spoke to more
Speaker 1: was the legality of it. Can I keep that a limit?
Speaker 1: You know? Again, my two kids, I hope Evans not
Speaker 1: like rounding up all the kids in the neighborhood. I'm
Speaker 1: taking them all fishing. I don't know what the guy's
Speaker 1: m O is, right, we can't. We don't read minds.
Speaker 1: I'm sure that's not it. It's actually it's it's a
Speaker 1: good question, you know. Yeah. And if he's a listener
Speaker 1: to Ben, I'm sure that he is just an upstanding
Speaker 1: member of society. Or he could be a degenerate angler.
Speaker 1: Degenerate angler, you don't know, but yeah, listen, I just
Speaker 1: just to sort of cover our asses. Maybe this varies
Speaker 1: in different states. I'm not sure, but I mean I
Speaker 1: I hold licenses in multiple states every year for freshwater.
Speaker 1: You know, grew up traveling fish and fished all over.
Speaker 1: I've never heard of such a thing where, you know,
Speaker 1: a legal a legal unlicensed angler, meaning a little kid
Speaker 1: I couldn't keep fishing, couldn't couldn't keep their fish or
Speaker 1: keep their limits. Yeah, no rules there, it sounds right. Well. Anyway,
Speaker 1: that's a great question, Evan, Thank you very much for
Speaker 1: sending it into Ben. If you have questions yourself, you
Speaker 1: can send him to either Joe on his Instagram, you
Speaker 1: can send them to me on my Instagram. You can
Speaker 1: send him into the bent inbox at bent at the
Speaker 1: Meat Eater dot com. Um and yeah, send your question
Speaker 1: via text, send in a voice memo. We like those
Speaker 1: and you could hear yourself. You're texting them to my number?
Speaker 1: Did you give out your number? Who did you text
Speaker 1: them to? You said, send him in via text? Did
Speaker 1: you give out your number publicly? Yeah? My number five
Speaker 1: F five I meant in in a text based format. Yeah. Yeah. Look,
Speaker 1: send your questions in and we'll do our best to
Speaker 1: answer him on the Bent helpline. So that's it for
Speaker 1: this week. Remember if you're taking the kids out with
Speaker 1: the power bait looking for your makeo limbit, if it roars,
Speaker 1: set it free. Also, please please keep those sale band items,
Speaker 1: awkward photos, helpline questions, bar nominations, and all that good
Speaker 1: stuff coming to Bent at the Meat Eater dot com. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and keep using those Bent podcasts and degenerate angler hashtags.
Speaker 1: And for the love of God, please stop suggesting quizzes
Speaker 1: for me. No, no, keep suggesting them. What other movies
Speaker 1: should we quiz? Haden on Perfect Storm, Mighty Ducks, Open Everything. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm open to everything except Half Baked, because that would
Speaker 1: just be too easy. He