1 00:00:01,560 --> 00:00:05,720 Speaker 1: Every day A way up the breakfast Clubs. 2 00:00:05,920 --> 00:00:07,480 Speaker 2: Y'all done morning. 3 00:00:07,480 --> 00:00:11,360 Speaker 3: Everybody is DJ Envy just hilarious. Charlamagne the guy we 4 00:00:11,440 --> 00:00:14,040 Speaker 3: are to breakfast Club Lawn. The Rolls is here as well. 5 00:00:14,240 --> 00:00:15,400 Speaker 3: We got a special guest in. 6 00:00:15,320 --> 00:00:17,520 Speaker 2: The building, one of my favorite authors ever. It's a 7 00:00:17,520 --> 00:00:17,919 Speaker 2: new book. 8 00:00:18,079 --> 00:00:22,439 Speaker 3: Wisdom Takes work, Learn, Apply, repeat, Ladies and gentlemen, Ryan Holiday. 9 00:00:22,040 --> 00:00:23,320 Speaker 4: Welcome back, Thanks for having me. 10 00:00:23,440 --> 00:00:24,360 Speaker 3: How are you feeling this morning? 11 00:00:24,360 --> 00:00:25,040 Speaker 4: Doing awesome? 12 00:00:26,000 --> 00:00:32,320 Speaker 1: The book is this number one, sixteen. 13 00:00:34,360 --> 00:00:36,839 Speaker 4: Fifth or six time he's been up here. Very good 14 00:00:36,880 --> 00:00:37,040 Speaker 4: to me. 15 00:00:37,200 --> 00:00:38,680 Speaker 2: Yeah, now we like having you. Man. 16 00:00:39,320 --> 00:00:43,400 Speaker 1: The Wisdom takes work, Learn, apply, repleate, repeat, And in 17 00:00:43,479 --> 00:00:45,960 Speaker 1: the book you argue that wisdom is the virtue on 18 00:00:46,000 --> 00:00:48,199 Speaker 1: which all other virtues depend. 19 00:00:48,400 --> 00:00:49,720 Speaker 2: How did you arrive at that belief? 20 00:00:49,840 --> 00:00:52,319 Speaker 5: So the four virtues of Stoke Foster try to write 21 00:00:52,360 --> 00:00:53,920 Speaker 5: about our courage. 22 00:00:53,800 --> 00:00:55,960 Speaker 4: Discipline, justice, and wisdom. 23 00:00:56,400 --> 00:00:59,200 Speaker 5: They're all separate, but they're related in that, you know, 24 00:00:59,360 --> 00:01:03,080 Speaker 5: wisdom tells us when and how to apply the others. 25 00:01:03,240 --> 00:01:05,880 Speaker 5: I think if you doesn't matter you know how good 26 00:01:05,920 --> 00:01:08,520 Speaker 5: your heart is, if you don't have the wisdom the 27 00:01:08,640 --> 00:01:11,759 Speaker 5: intelligence to know how to bring it into the world, 28 00:01:11,880 --> 00:01:14,920 Speaker 5: or you know courage is important, but you could be 29 00:01:15,000 --> 00:01:19,320 Speaker 5: courageous for something real dumb. So wisdom is the sort 30 00:01:19,319 --> 00:01:22,039 Speaker 5: of layer on top that we have to apply to 31 00:01:22,080 --> 00:01:23,920 Speaker 5: all other skills and assets. 32 00:01:24,040 --> 00:01:25,600 Speaker 1: Well, it's one thing to do to research with their 33 00:01:25,680 --> 00:01:28,800 Speaker 1: specific moment in your life that made you realize it. 34 00:01:29,080 --> 00:01:30,200 Speaker 4: That wisdom was important. 35 00:01:30,280 --> 00:01:33,800 Speaker 5: Yeah, well, you know, I think we've all met some 36 00:01:33,840 --> 00:01:37,000 Speaker 5: smart people that do dumb things. And I think we've 37 00:01:37,040 --> 00:01:40,160 Speaker 5: all done dumb things. And you look at you look 38 00:01:40,200 --> 00:01:43,720 Speaker 5: at wisdom as being the sort of the key to 39 00:01:44,640 --> 00:01:47,560 Speaker 5: not just a successful life, but a good life. Right 40 00:01:47,600 --> 00:01:49,760 Speaker 5: you can you can be really good at what you 41 00:01:49,800 --> 00:01:53,040 Speaker 5: do and then you can blow it all up, or 42 00:01:53,080 --> 00:01:55,680 Speaker 5: you can be profoundly unhappy, or you know how many 43 00:01:55,680 --> 00:01:58,840 Speaker 5: smart people are lacking in self awareness. So I just 44 00:01:58,840 --> 00:02:01,880 Speaker 5: think wisdom is this sort of that brings it all together. 45 00:02:01,960 --> 00:02:05,080 Speaker 5: And I think I think one of the problems is 46 00:02:05,080 --> 00:02:08,680 Speaker 5: that we assume wisdom is this thing that just happens, 47 00:02:08,760 --> 00:02:11,360 Speaker 5: right we go. Sure, school is important, but you know, 48 00:02:11,480 --> 00:02:14,959 Speaker 5: experience is important. You know wisdom comes with age, not 49 00:02:15,280 --> 00:02:17,799 Speaker 5: It's no guarantee. I've met a lot of dumb old 50 00:02:17,840 --> 00:02:18,320 Speaker 5: people too. 51 00:02:18,800 --> 00:02:21,239 Speaker 1: Absolutely, I was always talking small people learn from the 52 00:02:21,240 --> 00:02:23,280 Speaker 1: ol mistakes. Wise people learn from mistakes of others. I 53 00:02:23,320 --> 00:02:27,000 Speaker 1: completely agree that wisdom is a lost art. I think 54 00:02:27,040 --> 00:02:28,320 Speaker 1: you have a lot of smart people. I don't think 55 00:02:28,320 --> 00:02:29,840 Speaker 1: you have a lot of wise people nowadays. 56 00:02:29,960 --> 00:02:33,720 Speaker 5: Yeah yeah, and I mean you need this not just 57 00:02:34,160 --> 00:02:36,720 Speaker 5: to be successful, as I was saying, but like, how 58 00:02:36,720 --> 00:02:39,480 Speaker 5: do you not fall for demagogues? Or how do you 59 00:02:39,520 --> 00:02:44,200 Speaker 5: not fall for scams? How do you rise above the noise? 60 00:02:44,240 --> 00:02:45,840 Speaker 5: How do you separate fact from fiction? 61 00:02:46,160 --> 00:02:46,560 Speaker 4: Wisdom? 62 00:02:46,600 --> 00:02:49,639 Speaker 5: I think is you know that there's this word discernment, right, 63 00:02:49,720 --> 00:02:52,360 Speaker 5: the art of discernment, like how many people can really 64 00:02:52,360 --> 00:02:55,080 Speaker 5: see the difference between good and really good, you know, 65 00:02:55,280 --> 00:02:58,519 Speaker 5: right and almost right truths and complete nonsense? 66 00:02:58,560 --> 00:03:00,639 Speaker 4: That to me is the missing skin of our time. 67 00:03:00,720 --> 00:03:04,400 Speaker 2: We do so pack it up. We're not doing Yes, 68 00:03:04,440 --> 00:03:05,320 Speaker 2: we are, no. 69 00:03:05,440 --> 00:03:08,079 Speaker 6: I think I think everybody eventually has something in their 70 00:03:08,120 --> 00:03:10,600 Speaker 6: life that wakes them up to that, whether it's at 71 00:03:10,600 --> 00:03:12,600 Speaker 6: a different like might be young, might be older. But 72 00:03:12,919 --> 00:03:15,080 Speaker 6: you always taught you always thought that like wisdom comes 73 00:03:15,120 --> 00:03:17,800 Speaker 6: with age. Yes that saying so you probably hate that 74 00:03:17,840 --> 00:03:19,359 Speaker 6: saying huh yeah. 75 00:03:19,560 --> 00:03:21,840 Speaker 5: Churchill was joking about this guy he didn't like, and 76 00:03:21,840 --> 00:03:26,080 Speaker 5: he said, uh that although he occasionally stumbled over the truth, 77 00:03:26,400 --> 00:03:28,720 Speaker 5: he quickly picked himself up and carried on as if 78 00:03:28,720 --> 00:03:32,040 Speaker 5: nothing had happened. Right, So people are I think life 79 00:03:32,080 --> 00:03:35,160 Speaker 5: is always teaching you, right, but you don't have to 80 00:03:35,200 --> 00:03:38,960 Speaker 5: hear it, and so life will sometimes whisper life. 81 00:03:39,040 --> 00:03:39,800 Speaker 4: Life will tell you. 82 00:03:39,800 --> 00:03:42,400 Speaker 5: Nicely things that you need to know, and then when 83 00:03:42,400 --> 00:03:46,440 Speaker 5: we ignore that, it becomes louder and louder and louder, 84 00:03:46,520 --> 00:03:49,440 Speaker 5: until sometimes you know, you have to learn from some 85 00:03:49,600 --> 00:03:54,600 Speaker 5: kind of catastrophic failure or catastrophe, and so you know 86 00:03:55,200 --> 00:03:58,320 Speaker 5: your point that that we can learn from the experiences 87 00:03:58,360 --> 00:04:02,800 Speaker 5: of others, that's a cheap, effective, efficient way to do it, 88 00:04:03,120 --> 00:04:04,600 Speaker 5: and then a lot of us go, no, no, I'd 89 00:04:04,680 --> 00:04:06,840 Speaker 5: rather figure it out on my own, and that that 90 00:04:06,920 --> 00:04:09,720 Speaker 5: costs not just them, but the people around them, like 91 00:04:09,760 --> 00:04:12,600 Speaker 5: the when we're late to learning lessons, that doesn't just 92 00:04:12,640 --> 00:04:15,240 Speaker 5: affect us, but that affects the people that work for us, 93 00:04:15,280 --> 00:04:19,000 Speaker 5: that affects our family, that affects the people who you 94 00:04:19,040 --> 00:04:22,839 Speaker 5: know bear the consequences of that, you know, painful lesson 95 00:04:22,880 --> 00:04:24,520 Speaker 5: that we chose to learn the hard way. 96 00:04:24,680 --> 00:04:28,280 Speaker 3: I think wisdom has to come from age, though sure, regardless, 97 00:04:28,279 --> 00:04:30,160 Speaker 3: I mean, regardless of what the part you could meet 98 00:04:30,400 --> 00:04:32,960 Speaker 3: a stupid old person, but there is some wisdom that 99 00:04:33,000 --> 00:04:35,240 Speaker 3: comes from what they're doing, whether if they work at 100 00:04:35,680 --> 00:04:38,040 Speaker 3: a plant, whether they whatever they do at the house, 101 00:04:38,080 --> 00:04:41,080 Speaker 3: there is some type of wisdom that they can continue 102 00:04:41,120 --> 00:04:42,320 Speaker 3: on to give to somebody else. 103 00:04:42,480 --> 00:04:44,640 Speaker 5: Well, you know, the root of the word idiot is 104 00:04:44,839 --> 00:04:49,480 Speaker 5: somebody in ancient Greece who did not participate in public life. 105 00:04:50,080 --> 00:04:52,720 Speaker 5: So you know, you can read everything you want, and 106 00:04:52,760 --> 00:04:55,080 Speaker 5: you can read a lot, and that'll make you smarter 107 00:04:55,160 --> 00:04:59,880 Speaker 5: than the average person. But if you're not engaged and involved, 108 00:05:00,560 --> 00:05:03,000 Speaker 5: you're going to miss some things that you can only 109 00:05:03,080 --> 00:05:06,479 Speaker 5: learn from experience. You know, Da Vinci would sign his 110 00:05:06,640 --> 00:05:10,080 Speaker 5: letters a disciple of experience. 111 00:05:10,240 --> 00:05:12,120 Speaker 4: You have to learn by doing. You have to put 112 00:05:12,120 --> 00:05:12,800 Speaker 4: yourself out there. 113 00:05:12,880 --> 00:05:15,359 Speaker 5: And that's why I say it's learn, apply, repeat, So 114 00:05:15,680 --> 00:05:19,040 Speaker 5: you learn the things you hear, the lessons you study, 115 00:05:19,120 --> 00:05:21,200 Speaker 5: you go to school, then you got to go out 116 00:05:21,240 --> 00:05:24,680 Speaker 5: in the world and you find that a lot of 117 00:05:24,680 --> 00:05:26,599 Speaker 5: what you learn now has to be applied, or a 118 00:05:26,640 --> 00:05:29,760 Speaker 5: lot of what you learned you didn't actually understand it. 119 00:05:30,080 --> 00:05:32,719 Speaker 5: And then you repeat that cycle over and over and 120 00:05:32,720 --> 00:05:35,960 Speaker 5: over again each time that that's a positive feedback loop 121 00:05:36,000 --> 00:05:37,799 Speaker 5: that's making you smarter and better. 122 00:05:37,600 --> 00:05:39,920 Speaker 3: And they talk about educational a lot of people. I'm 123 00:05:39,920 --> 00:05:41,599 Speaker 3: seeing this a lot more, more and more and more, 124 00:05:42,000 --> 00:05:45,120 Speaker 3: that people are not necessarily wanting to go to college. Sure, 125 00:05:45,240 --> 00:05:48,520 Speaker 3: they feel like the education that they get in college, 126 00:05:48,680 --> 00:05:52,880 Speaker 3: they can be taught more through life experiences, and they 127 00:05:52,880 --> 00:05:56,360 Speaker 3: feel like the wisdom that those professors have might be 128 00:05:56,880 --> 00:05:59,920 Speaker 3: outdated what they're teaching. What's your thoughts on them? 129 00:06:00,160 --> 00:06:02,720 Speaker 5: Well, look, I'm a proud college dropout, so I'm all 130 00:06:02,720 --> 00:06:06,000 Speaker 5: about it. There is and always has been a difference 131 00:06:06,040 --> 00:06:10,000 Speaker 5: between school and education. So I think the problem is 132 00:06:10,160 --> 00:06:13,360 Speaker 5: if you don't know what you're trying to do, how 133 00:06:13,400 --> 00:06:15,599 Speaker 5: do you know what the best form of schooling or 134 00:06:15,720 --> 00:06:17,039 Speaker 5: education is for you? 135 00:06:19,400 --> 00:06:20,840 Speaker 3: I said that all the time. By the way, I 136 00:06:20,920 --> 00:06:23,200 Speaker 3: think it's stupid that we force kids to get out 137 00:06:23,240 --> 00:06:24,800 Speaker 3: of high school and say, go to college and pick 138 00:06:24,800 --> 00:06:27,440 Speaker 3: a major immediately when they don't necessarily know what they 139 00:06:27,480 --> 00:06:28,680 Speaker 3: want to do. If you know what you want to do, 140 00:06:28,800 --> 00:06:31,080 Speaker 3: that's great. But there's been times where kids would like, 141 00:06:31,080 --> 00:06:33,400 Speaker 3: I don't know, Like, don't make me pick a major 142 00:06:33,480 --> 00:06:36,120 Speaker 3: and make me take these courses if I don't necessarily 143 00:06:36,200 --> 00:06:37,200 Speaker 3: know what I want to do in life. 144 00:06:37,360 --> 00:06:38,600 Speaker 1: And that's the way I woulday when we live in 145 00:06:38,640 --> 00:06:40,320 Speaker 1: a world where we're kind of preparing for a future 146 00:06:40,320 --> 00:06:42,279 Speaker 1: that won't even exist for the AI going to be 147 00:06:42,320 --> 00:06:43,520 Speaker 1: having all the jobs anyway. 148 00:06:43,680 --> 00:06:46,960 Speaker 5: Well, look, spending a couple hundred thousand dollars over four 149 00:06:47,040 --> 00:06:49,320 Speaker 5: years is an expensive way to figure out what you 150 00:06:49,360 --> 00:06:51,760 Speaker 5: want to do, absolutely, especially if at the end of 151 00:06:51,800 --> 00:06:53,719 Speaker 5: it you find out that what you want to do 152 00:06:54,279 --> 00:06:58,479 Speaker 5: is something that didn't require college. For me, I met 153 00:06:58,560 --> 00:07:02,000 Speaker 5: Robert Green, our mutual friend, and then I realized that's 154 00:07:02,040 --> 00:07:04,080 Speaker 5: what I wanted to do. And then I said, well, 155 00:07:04,120 --> 00:07:06,000 Speaker 5: am I going to keep going to college or am 156 00:07:06,000 --> 00:07:08,720 Speaker 5: I going to go directly learn from the person who's 157 00:07:08,760 --> 00:07:12,200 Speaker 5: done it. So I'm a big believer in apprenticeships and mentorships. 158 00:07:12,360 --> 00:07:16,000 Speaker 5: You got to find your teachers. Sometimes those are college professors, 159 00:07:16,440 --> 00:07:21,640 Speaker 5: sometimes their business executives, sometimes their you know, your neighbor 160 00:07:21,680 --> 00:07:23,840 Speaker 5: down the street. But you got to find who can 161 00:07:23,880 --> 00:07:26,560 Speaker 5: teach you how to do what you want to do. 162 00:07:26,760 --> 00:07:28,680 Speaker 1: And when When you started off as an apprentice with 163 00:07:28,760 --> 00:07:30,560 Speaker 1: Robert Green, one of the first things he puts you 164 00:07:30,600 --> 00:07:31,720 Speaker 1: on with forty power. 165 00:07:32,160 --> 00:07:34,640 Speaker 5: No, I've worked on the fiftieth law fiftie Like the 166 00:07:34,680 --> 00:07:37,480 Speaker 5: first thing I did was transcribe before in a world 167 00:07:37,480 --> 00:07:41,600 Speaker 5: before AI. I transcribed hours and hours of interviews between 168 00:07:41,680 --> 00:07:44,200 Speaker 5: him and fifty and so that was part of my 169 00:07:44,360 --> 00:07:47,040 Speaker 5: education is just listening, not just listening to it, but 170 00:07:47,120 --> 00:07:49,680 Speaker 5: having to painstakingly type it all out. And so I 171 00:07:49,720 --> 00:07:52,480 Speaker 5: got this masterclass and not just you know how he worked, 172 00:07:52,480 --> 00:07:54,640 Speaker 5: but all the people around him. And but what I 173 00:07:54,720 --> 00:07:57,560 Speaker 5: was actually learning was like how you put a book together. 174 00:07:58,000 --> 00:07:59,760 Speaker 5: And Robert showed me how to research a book and 175 00:07:59,800 --> 00:08:02,160 Speaker 5: how to write, and then how to operate in the industry. 176 00:08:02,320 --> 00:08:04,440 Speaker 5: You want to find the people who are further ahead 177 00:08:04,720 --> 00:08:07,160 Speaker 5: in what you want to do and do it. Although 178 00:08:07,280 --> 00:08:09,360 Speaker 5: to be fair, like in college, I think one of 179 00:08:09,400 --> 00:08:13,560 Speaker 5: the most professors are professionals in what they do. 180 00:08:13,600 --> 00:08:14,200 Speaker 4: They're not just. 181 00:08:14,200 --> 00:08:18,560 Speaker 5: Teachers, they're researchers, They're experts there. You know, they had 182 00:08:18,800 --> 00:08:21,240 Speaker 5: a previous experience where they did the thing. And you 183 00:08:21,280 --> 00:08:23,960 Speaker 5: know every week they have office hours where they have 184 00:08:24,040 --> 00:08:28,280 Speaker 5: to sit there and meet with the students and nobody comes. 185 00:08:28,640 --> 00:08:29,560 Speaker 4: So I thought. 186 00:08:29,600 --> 00:08:31,560 Speaker 5: The crazy thing for me is like I didn't go 187 00:08:31,680 --> 00:08:34,560 Speaker 5: into the library at my college until after I dropped 188 00:08:34,559 --> 00:08:36,880 Speaker 5: out and I was writing my first book because I 189 00:08:36,960 --> 00:08:39,679 Speaker 5: was like, oh wait, this is an incredible free resource 190 00:08:39,920 --> 00:08:42,559 Speaker 5: that I was too busy, you know, doing the college 191 00:08:42,640 --> 00:08:45,320 Speaker 5: kid thing to take advantage of. So all this stuff 192 00:08:45,360 --> 00:08:47,840 Speaker 5: is there, it's just you got to be self directed 193 00:08:47,880 --> 00:08:48,760 Speaker 5: and self motivated. 194 00:08:48,840 --> 00:08:49,040 Speaker 2: You know. 195 00:08:49,080 --> 00:08:51,240 Speaker 1: In a Wisdom Takes Work you write that we live 196 00:08:51,240 --> 00:08:54,680 Speaker 1: in an age where reaction and idle chatter are rewarded 197 00:08:54,760 --> 00:08:57,319 Speaker 1: in restraint and thoughtfulness are unfashionable. 198 00:08:57,600 --> 00:08:59,680 Speaker 2: And you talk to these digital decays about what you 199 00:08:59,679 --> 00:09:00,160 Speaker 2: mean that? 200 00:09:00,880 --> 00:09:04,760 Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean, look, social media is by definition talking 201 00:09:04,920 --> 00:09:08,320 Speaker 5: and not listening. Zeno, the founder of stoicism, he said, 202 00:09:08,600 --> 00:09:10,800 Speaker 5: we have two ears and one mouth for a reason, 203 00:09:11,400 --> 00:09:14,600 Speaker 5: and when you're talking, what you're mostly doing is not listening. 204 00:09:15,120 --> 00:09:18,960 Speaker 5: So we have this enormous sort of media culture that's 205 00:09:18,960 --> 00:09:23,160 Speaker 5: about chatter and noise and it's not about thoughts and reflection. 206 00:09:23,240 --> 00:09:25,360 Speaker 5: And I mean, even how much of what we listen 207 00:09:25,400 --> 00:09:28,080 Speaker 5: to and talk about is what's happening right now, not 208 00:09:28,240 --> 00:09:32,400 Speaker 5: the historical context or the bigger picture. And I think 209 00:09:33,000 --> 00:09:35,120 Speaker 5: it's not that there's anything wrong with news or podcasts 210 00:09:35,160 --> 00:09:38,000 Speaker 5: or social media, but if you don't have like the 211 00:09:38,160 --> 00:09:41,000 Speaker 5: historical basis, the larger context, you're not going to know 212 00:09:41,000 --> 00:09:43,680 Speaker 5: what any of it means. You know, Truman's famous line was, 213 00:09:44,440 --> 00:09:46,680 Speaker 5: there's nothing new in the world, but the history you 214 00:09:46,720 --> 00:09:49,720 Speaker 5: don't know. And so most of what's happening now has 215 00:09:49,760 --> 00:09:52,760 Speaker 5: happened before. But if it's the first time you're hearing 216 00:09:52,760 --> 00:09:54,920 Speaker 5: about it, you're experiencing, you're going to have the wrong 217 00:09:55,000 --> 00:09:57,880 Speaker 5: read on it, because you think it's like, somehow unprecedented, 218 00:09:57,920 --> 00:09:59,680 Speaker 5: But in fact it's very precedented. 219 00:10:00,440 --> 00:10:02,760 Speaker 1: Somebody is unprecedented. Though a lot of what we're seeing 220 00:10:02,840 --> 00:10:05,120 Speaker 1: right now you think so, at least in America. I 221 00:10:05,160 --> 00:10:06,559 Speaker 1: guess you mean, I guess if you can rely on 222 00:10:06,640 --> 00:10:07,800 Speaker 1: historical context, that's. 223 00:10:07,720 --> 00:10:08,079 Speaker 4: What I mean. 224 00:10:08,679 --> 00:10:11,320 Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean this archetype you want to look at 225 00:10:11,320 --> 00:10:15,400 Speaker 5: a Donald Trump. Donald Trump exists in half a dozen 226 00:10:15,440 --> 00:10:22,040 Speaker 5: Shakespearean plays. He exists in Greek tragedies. There are historical 227 00:10:22,280 --> 00:10:25,120 Speaker 5: precedent after historical precedent for guys like that. 228 00:10:25,160 --> 00:10:25,480 Speaker 4: I mean. 229 00:10:25,640 --> 00:10:28,439 Speaker 5: One of the interesting lines in Marx Sirelis's Meditations, he 230 00:10:28,920 --> 00:10:32,559 Speaker 5: says that he thanks his philosophy teacher for teaching him 231 00:10:32,559 --> 00:10:35,520 Speaker 5: not to fall for every smooth talker. So like the 232 00:10:35,559 --> 00:10:37,800 Speaker 5: idea of the demagogue, the idea of the strong man, 233 00:10:37,840 --> 00:10:41,880 Speaker 5: the idea of the con man is as old a 234 00:10:41,960 --> 00:10:44,280 Speaker 5: thing as there has ever been. And part of the 235 00:10:44,320 --> 00:10:48,680 Speaker 5: reason I think people have trouble spotting it or seeing 236 00:10:48,679 --> 00:10:50,839 Speaker 5: it for what it is is that they don't know 237 00:10:50,880 --> 00:10:53,280 Speaker 5: that this has happened again and again and again, and 238 00:10:53,400 --> 00:10:56,120 Speaker 5: therefore they don't know how badly this ends. 239 00:10:56,720 --> 00:10:59,559 Speaker 2: Is he a smooth talker. I wouldn't consider him a 240 00:10:59,559 --> 00:10:59,920 Speaker 2: smooth time. 241 00:11:00,000 --> 00:11:03,320 Speaker 5: I mean he's not smooth in the sense that you know, 242 00:11:03,400 --> 00:11:06,120 Speaker 5: he's particularly good at it, like he's this soaring order. 243 00:11:06,280 --> 00:11:09,280 Speaker 5: But he's really good at telling aggrieved people what they 244 00:11:09,320 --> 00:11:13,240 Speaker 5: want to hear. And that's what demagogues have always done 245 00:11:13,360 --> 00:11:16,800 Speaker 5: and always do. They They point to the other and 246 00:11:16,840 --> 00:11:18,120 Speaker 5: they say, your problems are not. 247 00:11:18,200 --> 00:11:20,760 Speaker 4: Your fault, they're these people's fault. 248 00:11:20,600 --> 00:11:23,840 Speaker 5: And I'm going to be your weapon of vengeance against them. 249 00:11:24,320 --> 00:11:28,040 Speaker 5: That's as old as you know political strong men have 250 00:11:28,120 --> 00:11:28,560 Speaker 5: ever been. 251 00:11:29,200 --> 00:11:30,200 Speaker 3: What's the second brain? 252 00:11:30,760 --> 00:11:34,400 Speaker 5: Second brain? So and I learned this from Robert Green 253 00:11:34,520 --> 00:11:38,720 Speaker 5: The the the writer is like you have to be 254 00:11:38,880 --> 00:11:42,360 Speaker 5: recording and synthesizing the knowledge that you get. So it's 255 00:11:42,400 --> 00:11:44,280 Speaker 5: not enough to have a mentor it's not enough to 256 00:11:44,320 --> 00:11:47,680 Speaker 5: read books, it's not enough to watch listen to podcasts 257 00:11:47,760 --> 00:11:52,719 Speaker 5: or watch documentaries. How are you collecting and organizing this information. So, like, 258 00:11:52,840 --> 00:11:57,840 Speaker 5: I'm reading book right now and I'm I'm taking notes. 259 00:11:59,000 --> 00:12:01,880 Speaker 5: I'm taking notes. It's a big one. This is uh 260 00:12:02,240 --> 00:12:04,000 Speaker 5: Joe la Poor History of the United States all. 261 00:12:04,120 --> 00:12:07,120 Speaker 4: It's a great book. And I'm gonna record this stuff. 262 00:12:07,120 --> 00:12:09,480 Speaker 5: I'm gonna read it, I'm gonna take my time with it, 263 00:12:09,800 --> 00:12:12,640 Speaker 5: and then I'm gonna break this down into note cards, 264 00:12:12,640 --> 00:12:14,880 Speaker 5: which I organize, and then that's what I use in 265 00:12:14,920 --> 00:12:18,720 Speaker 5: my writing, in my videos and my talks. So I think, 266 00:12:18,880 --> 00:12:21,360 Speaker 5: if you're not keeping a journal, if you're not recording 267 00:12:21,400 --> 00:12:25,240 Speaker 5: the information that you're consuming or learning, where's it going. 268 00:12:25,280 --> 00:12:27,760 Speaker 5: It's just going in a black hole somewhere. So that's 269 00:12:27,800 --> 00:12:29,560 Speaker 5: what they call the second brain. 270 00:12:30,240 --> 00:12:31,480 Speaker 1: What's an information diet? 271 00:12:32,120 --> 00:12:36,080 Speaker 5: Oh well, what do you just like they say, garbage in, 272 00:12:36,160 --> 00:12:38,679 Speaker 5: garbage out right, But what are you eating? 273 00:12:38,720 --> 00:12:39,600 Speaker 4: What are you consuming? 274 00:12:39,880 --> 00:12:43,000 Speaker 5: We understand that what we eat affects our health, affects 275 00:12:43,000 --> 00:12:46,920 Speaker 5: our mood, affects, you know, our happiness, and yet people 276 00:12:47,000 --> 00:12:51,840 Speaker 5: just consume straight garbage in directly in their ears, directly 277 00:12:51,880 --> 00:12:54,640 Speaker 5: in their eyes all day And I think, you know, 278 00:12:55,280 --> 00:12:57,200 Speaker 5: you definitely see this on the right. This just sort 279 00:12:57,200 --> 00:13:03,960 Speaker 5: of depraved garbage information diet of like the worst slop 280 00:13:04,080 --> 00:13:07,520 Speaker 5: and nonsense, whether it's coming from podcasts or Twitter where 281 00:13:07,559 --> 00:13:12,760 Speaker 5: like like, if you're not protecting what's going in your brain, 282 00:13:13,200 --> 00:13:15,280 Speaker 5: you're going to destroy your brain. And I think we 283 00:13:15,400 --> 00:13:18,560 Speaker 5: see this happening, like no one should watch as much 284 00:13:18,880 --> 00:13:22,000 Speaker 5: cable news or spend as much time on social media 285 00:13:22,120 --> 00:13:25,440 Speaker 5: as Donald Trump does, and so you're watching it degrede. 286 00:13:25,480 --> 00:13:27,800 Speaker 5: I think the most telling example of this is like, 287 00:13:28,160 --> 00:13:31,160 Speaker 5: at one point in his life, Elon Musk was reading 288 00:13:31,200 --> 00:13:35,480 Speaker 5: Soviet rocket manuals to figure out physics and space and 289 00:13:35,520 --> 00:13:39,000 Speaker 5: the aeronautics industry. And now he just spends all his 290 00:13:39,000 --> 00:13:43,760 Speaker 5: time on Twitter, you know, mainlining memes, and he's insane. Right, 291 00:13:43,800 --> 00:13:47,280 Speaker 5: he broke his brain. And that's that's why your information die. 292 00:13:47,280 --> 00:13:49,760 Speaker 4: It matters. It's not just the quality, but it's also. 293 00:13:49,880 --> 00:13:52,199 Speaker 5: Like if you consume too much, your brain will break. 294 00:13:52,240 --> 00:13:55,400 Speaker 5: You got to have some some discipline and boundaries too. 295 00:13:55,760 --> 00:13:59,120 Speaker 6: But if it's like that's if it's habitual, right, like, 296 00:13:59,160 --> 00:14:01,840 Speaker 6: how do you why do you manage the diet after 297 00:14:01,880 --> 00:14:03,120 Speaker 6: you already broke here brain. 298 00:14:04,600 --> 00:14:06,839 Speaker 5: I remember growing up as a kid and my friend's 299 00:14:06,960 --> 00:14:10,000 Speaker 5: parents watched so much Fox News it was literally burned 300 00:14:10,080 --> 00:14:12,319 Speaker 5: in the corner of the TV, and that's. 301 00:14:12,160 --> 00:14:15,680 Speaker 4: Not healthy, Like this is not healthy. 302 00:14:15,760 --> 00:14:19,400 Speaker 5: So you gotta say, hey, this is when I get 303 00:14:19,400 --> 00:14:21,600 Speaker 5: my news, this when I get my information, This is 304 00:14:21,640 --> 00:14:24,160 Speaker 5: who I trust to give me my information. And I 305 00:14:24,200 --> 00:14:28,240 Speaker 5: think people consume way too much real time information and 306 00:14:28,320 --> 00:14:31,400 Speaker 5: don't go back far enough. I think books are better. 307 00:14:31,480 --> 00:14:36,360 Speaker 5: I think conversations with real human beings are better. You're 308 00:14:36,480 --> 00:14:41,560 Speaker 5: just you're there's this recency bias, and so much of 309 00:14:41,600 --> 00:14:46,920 Speaker 5: what's happening right now is ephemeral and trivial and or developing, 310 00:14:47,080 --> 00:14:49,000 Speaker 5: you know what I mean, Like you shouldn't be watching 311 00:14:49,320 --> 00:14:52,800 Speaker 5: the news as it's happening unless you are a hedge 312 00:14:52,800 --> 00:14:53,760 Speaker 5: fund trader or. 313 00:14:53,720 --> 00:14:55,880 Speaker 4: You hold elected office, like wait for. 314 00:14:55,800 --> 00:14:57,600 Speaker 5: Them to figure it out, then check in and get 315 00:14:57,600 --> 00:15:02,400 Speaker 5: that information and check it against your larger historical sense 316 00:15:02,440 --> 00:15:04,920 Speaker 5: of what things being and how the world works. 317 00:15:05,720 --> 00:15:09,080 Speaker 6: It just always feels like things are moving so fast sometimes, 318 00:15:09,240 --> 00:15:11,560 Speaker 6: And for a person like me, when you talk about 319 00:15:11,560 --> 00:15:14,840 Speaker 6: like how you download information, if I'm watching the news 320 00:15:14,840 --> 00:15:18,320 Speaker 6: when things are happening, I retain it way better than 321 00:15:18,360 --> 00:15:19,960 Speaker 6: if I have to go back and like sit with 322 00:15:20,000 --> 00:15:22,600 Speaker 6: it sometimes because I feel like it's a lived experience. 323 00:15:22,760 --> 00:15:25,200 Speaker 6: You think, so that I mean that is just kind 324 00:15:25,200 --> 00:15:27,240 Speaker 6: of what I've been experiencing and working in news. Like 325 00:15:27,280 --> 00:15:29,600 Speaker 6: I literally remember January sixth when they went into the 326 00:15:29,600 --> 00:15:32,440 Speaker 6: Capitol because CNN was on and I watched it. So 327 00:15:32,480 --> 00:15:34,280 Speaker 6: when I was able to talk about it, I watched it, 328 00:15:34,520 --> 00:15:36,240 Speaker 6: like I mean, I talked about it from me watching 329 00:15:36,320 --> 00:15:38,240 Speaker 6: in real time, yeah, versus when I go back and 330 00:15:38,320 --> 00:15:40,080 Speaker 6: read things. It's I don't know, it's just different. 331 00:15:40,360 --> 00:15:41,200 Speaker 4: No, I get that. 332 00:15:41,240 --> 00:15:43,640 Speaker 5: I think sports is a great example. It's like you 333 00:15:43,680 --> 00:15:46,760 Speaker 5: could watch Stephen A. Smith all week, that's not going 334 00:15:46,840 --> 00:15:48,800 Speaker 5: to change what's going to happen on Sunday. Like what's 335 00:15:48,800 --> 00:15:50,440 Speaker 5: going to happen on Sunday is what's going to happen 336 00:15:50,520 --> 00:15:54,400 Speaker 5: on Sunday, And so we sometimes conflate like speculating about 337 00:15:54,400 --> 00:15:58,120 Speaker 5: what's going to happen, debating about what happened. You know, 338 00:16:00,600 --> 00:16:04,520 Speaker 5: you know, rumors are this is what's happening, and that's 339 00:16:04,600 --> 00:16:07,880 Speaker 5: not the actual like nut of it. And I think 340 00:16:07,920 --> 00:16:11,960 Speaker 5: we consume all this sort of stuff and commentary around 341 00:16:11,960 --> 00:16:14,440 Speaker 5: it and not like the main thing. 342 00:16:15,040 --> 00:16:16,040 Speaker 6: Yeah, I could see that. 343 00:16:16,440 --> 00:16:19,000 Speaker 1: Can wisdom protect you from being influenced because I do 344 00:16:19,040 --> 00:16:21,480 Speaker 1: agree with you with the information diet, but they're like 345 00:16:21,520 --> 00:16:23,160 Speaker 1: I can look at a whole bunch of stuff throughout 346 00:16:23,160 --> 00:16:25,520 Speaker 1: the week and not be influenced by it. Sure, I 347 00:16:25,560 --> 00:16:27,720 Speaker 1: think it's the influence of it that I think is 348 00:16:28,240 --> 00:16:29,400 Speaker 1: worse than just consuming it. 349 00:16:29,800 --> 00:16:31,920 Speaker 5: Yeah, and look, I think part of this comes down 350 00:16:31,960 --> 00:16:36,000 Speaker 5: to media literacy, technological literacy. I mean, like, look, something 351 00:16:36,080 --> 00:16:40,280 Speaker 5: like twenty percent of Americans think that chocolate milk comes 352 00:16:40,280 --> 00:16:44,440 Speaker 5: from brown cows. Like, no, if that's where your starting 353 00:16:44,440 --> 00:16:49,280 Speaker 5: point is, you're gonna have trouble, Like when you are 354 00:16:49,280 --> 00:16:53,320 Speaker 5: reading a complicated news story telling you why something happened 355 00:16:53,400 --> 00:16:55,640 Speaker 5: or what it means. So, yeah, you have to have 356 00:16:56,000 --> 00:16:59,280 Speaker 5: a certain amount of intelligence and savvy to be able 357 00:16:59,320 --> 00:17:02,160 Speaker 5: to separate, you know what. And I do think that's 358 00:17:02,160 --> 00:17:04,800 Speaker 5: why it's such a battle for attention, is that you know, 359 00:17:05,200 --> 00:17:07,359 Speaker 5: some people are up for grabs and some people aren't. 360 00:17:07,359 --> 00:17:08,800 Speaker 5: And I think you want to be one of the 361 00:17:08,840 --> 00:17:11,840 Speaker 5: people that's not up for grabs because you you sort 362 00:17:11,880 --> 00:17:13,880 Speaker 5: of know what's what. To me, that's like a good 363 00:17:13,920 --> 00:17:17,119 Speaker 5: working definition of wisdom, Like I know what's what. I 364 00:17:17,200 --> 00:17:20,520 Speaker 5: know what humans are, I know how humanity works, I 365 00:17:20,560 --> 00:17:25,159 Speaker 5: know history, I know I know enough about the world 366 00:17:25,240 --> 00:17:28,800 Speaker 5: that that I can it. Look, we can all be 367 00:17:29,160 --> 00:17:33,000 Speaker 5: made fools and suckers, but the bigger basis, you know, 368 00:17:34,240 --> 00:17:37,119 Speaker 5: protects you against you know, the day to day barrage 369 00:17:37,240 --> 00:17:37,680 Speaker 5: for sure. 370 00:17:37,920 --> 00:17:40,520 Speaker 1: I really know people that think chocolate milk come from 371 00:17:40,560 --> 00:17:41,280 Speaker 1: a black. 372 00:17:41,000 --> 00:17:43,720 Speaker 5: House brown that is that is a that is a 373 00:17:43,800 --> 00:17:44,879 Speaker 5: statistical fact. 374 00:17:45,080 --> 00:17:45,919 Speaker 4: It is nuts. 375 00:17:45,960 --> 00:17:53,960 Speaker 2: That is like, remember right, that's crazy. 376 00:17:54,040 --> 00:17:57,680 Speaker 4: It is crazy. But but you you realize. 377 00:17:57,200 --> 00:18:01,240 Speaker 5: That not everyone's working with the same toolkit. Yeah, and 378 00:18:01,240 --> 00:18:04,800 Speaker 5: and that that that makes it hard to go through life. 379 00:18:05,840 --> 00:18:07,840 Speaker 3: How do you attack what book you're going to write about? Like, 380 00:18:07,920 --> 00:18:10,159 Speaker 3: you know this was about wisdom takes work? How do 381 00:18:10,240 --> 00:18:12,680 Speaker 3: you know? You know I'm going to go this way 382 00:18:12,720 --> 00:18:14,840 Speaker 3: on this book and next next time it's about this one. 383 00:18:15,000 --> 00:18:16,920 Speaker 3: So how did you pick this book? And what stood 384 00:18:16,920 --> 00:18:18,800 Speaker 3: out about this that made you want to write about 385 00:18:19,160 --> 00:18:19,920 Speaker 3: wisdom taking work? 386 00:18:19,960 --> 00:18:26,560 Speaker 7: It should be zero percent who's drinking milk either, But 387 00:18:27,880 --> 00:18:31,600 Speaker 7: look it's a I've been doing the series I did. 388 00:18:31,760 --> 00:18:34,879 Speaker 5: Courage, discipline, justice, and wisdom. Those are the four virtues. 389 00:18:34,920 --> 00:18:37,760 Speaker 5: So I knew that was the the arc. That's that's 390 00:18:37,760 --> 00:18:40,200 Speaker 5: what stoicism is based on. Correct, But I wanted to 391 00:18:40,240 --> 00:18:42,919 Speaker 5: save wisdom for last because it strikes me as the 392 00:18:42,960 --> 00:18:46,520 Speaker 5: hardest and it strikes me as the thing in exactly 393 00:18:46,560 --> 00:18:49,160 Speaker 5: what we're talking about this world not just of lots 394 00:18:49,160 --> 00:18:52,640 Speaker 5: of noise and information, but also AI, like the most essential. 395 00:18:52,880 --> 00:18:55,760 Speaker 5: I think that's the interesting thing about AI is people 396 00:18:55,760 --> 00:18:59,840 Speaker 5: are acting like it's going to be this magical thing 397 00:18:59,840 --> 00:19:01,480 Speaker 5: that solves every problem or. 398 00:19:01,480 --> 00:19:02,480 Speaker 4: Can teach you anything. 399 00:19:02,920 --> 00:19:05,200 Speaker 5: But in fact, what you need not just to be 400 00:19:05,240 --> 00:19:08,199 Speaker 5: able to take advantage of AI because it requires you 401 00:19:08,240 --> 00:19:09,800 Speaker 5: to prompt it, which means you have to be able 402 00:19:09,840 --> 00:19:13,600 Speaker 5: to ask it smart questions, but like if you're not, 403 00:19:13,680 --> 00:19:16,720 Speaker 5: if you don't have some sense of wisdom, some sense 404 00:19:16,720 --> 00:19:19,840 Speaker 5: of knowledge, you're going to be vulnerable to a thing 405 00:19:19,920 --> 00:19:23,159 Speaker 5: that that, by the way, hallucinates the significant percentage of 406 00:19:23,200 --> 00:19:25,760 Speaker 5: the time, that's wrong all the time. So you're gonna 407 00:19:26,160 --> 00:19:31,080 Speaker 5: like this idea of needing wisdom, needing a good bullshit 408 00:19:31,160 --> 00:19:36,560 Speaker 5: filter is like more important than ever because it's going 409 00:19:36,600 --> 00:19:40,199 Speaker 5: to eat you alive if you don't have uh, if 410 00:19:40,200 --> 00:19:43,080 Speaker 5: you don't have a sense of reality. 411 00:19:43,320 --> 00:19:45,720 Speaker 2: People don't I agree. 412 00:19:45,800 --> 00:19:47,600 Speaker 1: Oh, another claim you make in the book, you say, 413 00:19:47,600 --> 00:19:51,760 Speaker 1: cultivating wisdom requires mental struggle, and there's no shortcut for that. 414 00:19:51,840 --> 00:19:54,120 Speaker 1: So what does mental struggle look like from a from 415 00:19:54,160 --> 00:19:55,080 Speaker 1: a practical sense. 416 00:19:55,480 --> 00:19:59,720 Speaker 5: Well, look like books are basically free, you know, you 417 00:19:59,720 --> 00:20:04,040 Speaker 5: can get from the library. The amount of wisdom in 418 00:20:04,119 --> 00:20:06,080 Speaker 5: a book is incredibly cheap. 419 00:20:07,440 --> 00:20:09,800 Speaker 4: But it still takes work. You got to wrestle with 420 00:20:09,840 --> 00:20:10,120 Speaker 4: the book. 421 00:20:10,160 --> 00:20:11,840 Speaker 5: You gotta read it, you got to put the time in, 422 00:20:13,480 --> 00:20:18,119 Speaker 5: you know. I think it's not just the struggle to 423 00:20:18,240 --> 00:20:19,840 Speaker 5: you know, make the time to do the work, to read, 424 00:20:19,840 --> 00:20:22,480 Speaker 5: to go to class, whatever. But then it's also wrestling 425 00:20:22,520 --> 00:20:25,440 Speaker 5: with big questions like if you think life is black 426 00:20:25,480 --> 00:20:28,160 Speaker 5: and white, if you think it's easy, if you think 427 00:20:28,520 --> 00:20:31,200 Speaker 5: everyone is trying to tell you the truth all the time, 428 00:20:31,200 --> 00:20:33,360 Speaker 5: I think, again, you're going to find yourself pretty vulnerable. 429 00:20:33,359 --> 00:20:36,359 Speaker 5: So it it It is struggle. It's a it's a battle. 430 00:20:36,400 --> 00:20:39,360 Speaker 5: It's a battle against ignorance, it's a battle against misinformation. 431 00:20:39,440 --> 00:20:42,600 Speaker 5: It's a it's a battle against your your own biases. 432 00:20:42,640 --> 00:20:44,359 Speaker 5: I think one of the things the Stoics remind us 433 00:20:44,400 --> 00:20:46,439 Speaker 5: is that, like, your mind is not always your friend. 434 00:20:46,800 --> 00:20:49,720 Speaker 5: We all have prejudices, we all have biases, we all 435 00:20:49,760 --> 00:20:55,280 Speaker 5: have mental shortcuts that we do that that prevent ego 436 00:20:55,359 --> 00:20:58,560 Speaker 5: being another one that gets in the way of us 437 00:20:58,680 --> 00:20:59,240 Speaker 5: learning and. 438 00:20:59,560 --> 00:21:00,600 Speaker 4: Seeing what we need to see. 439 00:21:00,640 --> 00:21:03,520 Speaker 5: So you've got to struggle against yourself too. 440 00:21:05,080 --> 00:21:09,480 Speaker 1: Absolutely, And I like the subtitle to learn, apply, repeat, Yeah, 441 00:21:09,680 --> 00:21:11,600 Speaker 1: like you're saying that it has to be a cycle, 442 00:21:11,680 --> 00:21:12,480 Speaker 1: not a one time of it. 443 00:21:12,840 --> 00:21:15,479 Speaker 5: Yeah, Like you become a student when you're young, but 444 00:21:15,600 --> 00:21:17,840 Speaker 5: that's all sort of forced upon us. But to me, 445 00:21:17,960 --> 00:21:21,320 Speaker 5: the essential question is how long do you stay a student. 446 00:21:21,720 --> 00:21:25,040 Speaker 5: There's a story about Marksreli. Philosopher King is the wisest 447 00:21:25,040 --> 00:21:27,320 Speaker 5: man in Rome, the most powerful man in Rome, and 448 00:21:27,359 --> 00:21:30,000 Speaker 5: he's seen leaving the palace and a friend stops him 449 00:21:30,040 --> 00:21:31,560 Speaker 5: and he says, you know, sir, where are you going? 450 00:21:31,920 --> 00:21:34,000 Speaker 5: And he says, I'm off to see sex. This the 451 00:21:34,000 --> 00:21:36,639 Speaker 5: philosopher to learn that which I do not yet know 452 00:21:37,320 --> 00:21:37,600 Speaker 5: the man. 453 00:21:37,800 --> 00:21:38,400 Speaker 4: This is amazing. 454 00:21:38,400 --> 00:21:40,679 Speaker 5: Here we have the philosopher King still taking up his 455 00:21:40,760 --> 00:21:43,520 Speaker 5: tablets and going to school. But that's why he was 456 00:21:43,600 --> 00:21:47,200 Speaker 5: a philosopher King. And I like that he was going 457 00:21:47,240 --> 00:21:49,639 Speaker 5: to the teacher instead of sending the teacher to So 458 00:21:49,680 --> 00:21:54,520 Speaker 5: there is something about staying hungry but also staying humble, Like, 459 00:21:55,160 --> 00:21:57,640 Speaker 5: you know, if you're a know it all, you're right, 460 00:21:58,359 --> 00:22:00,280 Speaker 5: because if you're a know at all, you know all 461 00:22:00,359 --> 00:22:02,840 Speaker 5: that it is possible for you to know. But if 462 00:22:02,840 --> 00:22:04,879 Speaker 5: you focus on what you don't know. If you focus 463 00:22:04,880 --> 00:22:07,560 Speaker 5: on how much there is left to know, then you're 464 00:22:07,560 --> 00:22:09,360 Speaker 5: always going to get better and that, you know, think 465 00:22:09,359 --> 00:22:13,119 Speaker 5: about what the Socratic method is to asking questions. States 466 00:22:13,160 --> 00:22:16,600 Speaker 5: doesn't go around Athens, you know, lecturing people. He goes 467 00:22:16,640 --> 00:22:19,320 Speaker 5: around asking them questions, trying to find things out. And 468 00:22:19,359 --> 00:22:22,400 Speaker 5: so this this decision to become a student is part one, 469 00:22:22,880 --> 00:22:27,320 Speaker 5: but part two is staying a student and remaining a 470 00:22:27,359 --> 00:22:28,240 Speaker 5: student all. 471 00:22:28,080 --> 00:22:28,800 Speaker 4: Of your life. 472 00:22:30,000 --> 00:22:32,679 Speaker 6: I was my ex with your books. It seems like 473 00:22:32,760 --> 00:22:36,560 Speaker 6: your target or your goal is to allow people to 474 00:22:36,760 --> 00:22:39,320 Speaker 6: think freely but like have an educated like base that 475 00:22:39,320 --> 00:22:41,560 Speaker 6: they're pulling from. Yeah, how hard does it be coming 476 00:22:41,560 --> 00:22:43,119 Speaker 6: for you to go around teaching all of this in 477 00:22:43,520 --> 00:22:45,840 Speaker 6: this like time with this administration. I saw the thing 478 00:22:45,880 --> 00:22:47,800 Speaker 6: that happened with you at the Naval base and canceling 479 00:22:47,800 --> 00:22:48,760 Speaker 6: your lecture that you do. 480 00:22:49,000 --> 00:22:49,200 Speaker 4: Yeah. 481 00:22:49,200 --> 00:22:51,720 Speaker 5: I've been doing a series of lectures at the Naval 482 00:22:51,760 --> 00:22:54,240 Speaker 5: Academy on the Cardinal virtues for the last four years, 483 00:22:54,280 --> 00:22:56,119 Speaker 5: and the last one was cancel. I was supposed to 484 00:22:56,200 --> 00:22:58,280 Speaker 5: lecture about wisdom and I was going to talk about 485 00:22:58,280 --> 00:23:00,760 Speaker 5: Admiral James Stockdale was a famous graduate with there who 486 00:23:00,800 --> 00:23:06,000 Speaker 5: famously took a course on Marxism at Stanford before he 487 00:23:06,160 --> 00:23:10,280 Speaker 5: was shot down in Vietnam and sent to a Marxist prison. 488 00:23:10,560 --> 00:23:12,760 Speaker 5: And the idea is, like, you want to learn from 489 00:23:12,840 --> 00:23:16,359 Speaker 5: the enemy, you want to understand what they think, or 490 00:23:16,400 --> 00:23:21,119 Speaker 5: else you're vulnerable to brainwashing and propaganda. Actually, Seneca, the 491 00:23:21,119 --> 00:23:23,920 Speaker 5: stoke fluster, said this. He said, we want to study 492 00:23:23,960 --> 00:23:26,440 Speaker 5: like a spy in the enemy's camp. So I was 493 00:23:26,480 --> 00:23:29,240 Speaker 5: supposed to give this lecture, and like a couple weeks 494 00:23:29,280 --> 00:23:33,120 Speaker 5: before I went, they started removing books from the library 495 00:23:33,119 --> 00:23:35,920 Speaker 5: at orders of the Secretary of Defense and the president 496 00:23:36,119 --> 00:23:40,440 Speaker 5: because they were too woke or pro DEI and I 497 00:23:42,040 --> 00:23:43,720 Speaker 5: own a bookstore. I can't get up there and give 498 00:23:43,760 --> 00:23:48,720 Speaker 5: a lecture about wisdom as they're literally removing books. 499 00:23:48,400 --> 00:23:49,120 Speaker 4: From a library. 500 00:23:49,359 --> 00:23:52,520 Speaker 5: So I was going to mention it, and they found 501 00:23:52,560 --> 00:23:55,080 Speaker 5: out and they said, look, if you got to remove 502 00:23:55,160 --> 00:23:59,080 Speaker 5: those slides and you can't come talk here. Hey, And 503 00:23:59,119 --> 00:24:01,439 Speaker 5: this is one of the universities in this country. These 504 00:24:01,440 --> 00:24:04,280 Speaker 5: are people who someday are going to be piloting fighter 505 00:24:04,359 --> 00:24:07,080 Speaker 5: jets or aircraft carriers or nuclear submarines like these are 506 00:24:07,480 --> 00:24:10,800 Speaker 5: these cannot be sensitive little snowflakes, or we're in big trouble. 507 00:24:10,840 --> 00:24:12,560 Speaker 5: These are people who are gonna not just have to 508 00:24:12,560 --> 00:24:17,720 Speaker 5: make highly complex technical decisions, but profoundly ethical and moral questions. 509 00:24:18,320 --> 00:24:21,680 Speaker 5: And yet here we are protecting them, not just from 510 00:24:21,880 --> 00:24:25,840 Speaker 5: from from you know, protect potentially political books. But Maya 511 00:24:25,920 --> 00:24:28,800 Speaker 5: Angelou's Memoirs was one of the books that they that 512 00:24:28,840 --> 00:24:33,840 Speaker 5: they removed, probably because no one in excess office has 513 00:24:33,880 --> 00:24:35,359 Speaker 5: read it, knows anything about it. 514 00:24:35,400 --> 00:24:37,119 Speaker 4: He probably chat GPT told. 515 00:24:37,040 --> 00:24:38,639 Speaker 5: Him it was a woke book, so we wanted to 516 00:24:38,680 --> 00:24:41,040 Speaker 5: remove it. So I felt I couldn't do that. And that's, 517 00:24:41,040 --> 00:24:43,720 Speaker 5: by the way, where all the virtues are interrelated, because 518 00:24:43,720 --> 00:24:47,280 Speaker 5: it's not just knowing that that book banning is stupid 519 00:24:47,320 --> 00:24:50,680 Speaker 5: and reckless and dangerous. But then I have to decide, 520 00:24:51,160 --> 00:24:54,520 Speaker 5: you know, do I want to preserve my access or 521 00:24:54,640 --> 00:24:56,560 Speaker 5: do I want to say what I think is true? 522 00:24:57,720 --> 00:25:00,720 Speaker 5: And also do you want to you know, actuary defense 523 00:25:00,760 --> 00:25:03,040 Speaker 5: to be mad at you. That's where courage comes in. 524 00:25:03,119 --> 00:25:05,480 Speaker 5: But then also justice, like, hey, it's the right thing, 525 00:25:05,520 --> 00:25:08,159 Speaker 5: so you do the right thing. But yeah, we are 526 00:25:08,960 --> 00:25:10,800 Speaker 5: we are in a dangerous moment. Do you know the 527 00:25:10,800 --> 00:25:17,280 Speaker 5: word cacistocracy? So like oligarchy, democracy, right, different types of 528 00:25:17,280 --> 00:25:21,560 Speaker 5: governmental systems. Cacistocracy is government by the stupidest and that's 529 00:25:21,600 --> 00:25:23,960 Speaker 5: what we are facing in this moment, people who are 530 00:25:24,400 --> 00:25:32,199 Speaker 5: who are not just not smart, but actively afraid of 531 00:25:32,440 --> 00:25:36,760 Speaker 5: and angry at and resentful of people who have competence 532 00:25:36,880 --> 00:25:39,959 Speaker 5: and knowledge because they're fundamentally threatened by it. 533 00:25:42,040 --> 00:25:43,679 Speaker 2: So we have to replace the term idiocracy. 534 00:25:43,720 --> 00:25:45,359 Speaker 4: Then, Yeah, I mean idiocracy. 535 00:25:45,400 --> 00:25:47,520 Speaker 5: It's a similar way to say the same thing. Okay, 536 00:25:47,960 --> 00:25:50,679 Speaker 5: but I mean I don't think the American people are 537 00:25:50,720 --> 00:25:53,920 Speaker 5: that stupid. I think we are in a moment where 538 00:25:53,960 --> 00:25:58,600 Speaker 5: we have elected a number of officials who are actively stupid 539 00:25:58,720 --> 00:26:02,600 Speaker 5: and deliberately ignorant. And uh, what you said is interesting. 540 00:26:02,800 --> 00:26:05,960 Speaker 1: You said they're resentful of people who are smart, And 541 00:26:06,040 --> 00:26:07,520 Speaker 1: to me, I'm like, I don't think they don't. 542 00:26:07,560 --> 00:26:10,040 Speaker 2: I don't think they believe anybody's actually smarter than them. 543 00:26:10,359 --> 00:26:14,000 Speaker 5: There's a hilarious list of all the people that Trump 544 00:26:14,119 --> 00:26:16,560 Speaker 5: has said he is smarter than and it's like basically 545 00:26:16,600 --> 00:26:17,800 Speaker 5: everyone that's ever existed. 546 00:26:17,920 --> 00:26:20,600 Speaker 2: What I'm saying, Yeah, but it's this idea that. 547 00:26:20,600 --> 00:26:27,359 Speaker 5: Like, my feelings are more true or stronger than your expertise. 548 00:26:27,400 --> 00:26:31,720 Speaker 5: So it's this antipathy towards expertise, credentialism, and look like 549 00:26:31,760 --> 00:26:33,920 Speaker 5: the experts are wrong all the time. I'm not saying 550 00:26:33,920 --> 00:26:37,159 Speaker 5: they're flawless, but but like, you don't want to be 551 00:26:37,240 --> 00:26:42,080 Speaker 5: driving the smartest, most qualified, most experienced people out of 552 00:26:42,400 --> 00:26:46,520 Speaker 5: the armed forces, out of the government, out of business. 553 00:26:46,560 --> 00:26:48,880 Speaker 5: And that's the sort of bent that we're on. It's 554 00:26:48,880 --> 00:26:49,960 Speaker 5: going to end very very badly. 555 00:26:50,040 --> 00:26:52,040 Speaker 1: Oh listen, I want to ask you about that distant 556 00:26:52,119 --> 00:26:55,840 Speaker 1: if do you think the political climate made him feel 557 00:26:55,880 --> 00:26:58,439 Speaker 1: that way? Because for the last ten years, all the 558 00:26:58,440 --> 00:27:01,399 Speaker 1: political pundits in the scrap they've just been wrong. 559 00:27:01,960 --> 00:27:04,720 Speaker 5: They have been wrong like and that that. So it's like, 560 00:27:05,800 --> 00:27:08,800 Speaker 5: do you know this idea of negative capability? Negative capability 561 00:27:08,840 --> 00:27:11,440 Speaker 5: is the idea? Can you can you hold two opposing 562 00:27:11,480 --> 00:27:14,199 Speaker 5: ideas in your head? So, on the one hand, the 563 00:27:14,359 --> 00:27:18,640 Speaker 5: experts are wrong a lot. On the other hand, expertise 564 00:27:18,720 --> 00:27:21,440 Speaker 5: is still really important. So you can't throw the baby 565 00:27:21,480 --> 00:27:22,920 Speaker 5: out with the bath art. So you got to go, hey, 566 00:27:22,960 --> 00:27:25,960 Speaker 5: why were the experts wrong about this that or the other? 567 00:27:26,480 --> 00:27:31,080 Speaker 5: What what biases or tendencies do they have that you 568 00:27:31,160 --> 00:27:33,639 Speaker 5: got to protect against? And at the same time, you 569 00:27:33,760 --> 00:27:36,360 Speaker 5: got to elect qualified people. You don't go, hey, that 570 00:27:36,400 --> 00:27:41,159 Speaker 5: guy talks about the military on Fox News on the weekends. 571 00:27:41,440 --> 00:27:42,200 Speaker 4: Let's put him in. 572 00:27:42,200 --> 00:27:45,239 Speaker 5: Charge of the most powerful military in the world. I mean, 573 00:27:45,240 --> 00:27:49,000 Speaker 5: he's not even qualified to be the spokesperson for the Pentagon, 574 00:27:49,080 --> 00:27:52,520 Speaker 5: let alone running the Pentagon. And so, uh, you gotta 575 00:27:52,720 --> 00:27:55,920 Speaker 5: you gotta, you gotta go. Hey, here's what I believe, 576 00:27:55,920 --> 00:27:58,760 Speaker 5: Here's what I think is important, and then still respect, 577 00:27:59,240 --> 00:28:03,520 Speaker 5: you know, wisdom, intelligence, credentials, experience. 578 00:28:03,880 --> 00:28:06,800 Speaker 1: I want to ask you, what role is listening more 579 00:28:06,840 --> 00:28:10,360 Speaker 1: than talking play when you're in like a culturally diverse setting, 580 00:28:10,480 --> 00:28:14,040 Speaker 1: or when you're sitting with somebody with a different ideology 581 00:28:14,040 --> 00:28:16,840 Speaker 1: and you're listening to them. Yeah, but at some point 582 00:28:16,840 --> 00:28:19,040 Speaker 1: you might be like, what else wrong with some bullshit? 583 00:28:19,119 --> 00:28:21,000 Speaker 2: You just keep listening to you in a jagular. 584 00:28:20,760 --> 00:28:24,720 Speaker 5: But that that idea of negative capability is like realizing, 585 00:28:24,760 --> 00:28:26,720 Speaker 5: for instance, I have to think about this with my kids. 586 00:28:26,920 --> 00:28:30,560 Speaker 5: My kids are never wrong about their feelings because they're 587 00:28:30,640 --> 00:28:37,080 Speaker 5: their feelings. Now I might feel differently, it might not change. Hey, 588 00:28:37,119 --> 00:28:39,240 Speaker 5: you got to go to school, you got to do. 589 00:28:39,360 --> 00:28:39,840 Speaker 4: X, Y or Z. 590 00:28:40,320 --> 00:28:44,040 Speaker 5: But like your opinion is your opinion. And so I 591 00:28:44,080 --> 00:28:47,800 Speaker 5: think what strong people are able to do, resilient people 592 00:28:47,800 --> 00:28:49,520 Speaker 5: are able to do, wise people are able to do 593 00:28:49,920 --> 00:28:53,640 Speaker 5: is understand that people feel differently about different things, have 594 00:28:53,680 --> 00:28:57,960 Speaker 5: different opinions about different things, and to be interested and 595 00:28:58,120 --> 00:29:03,600 Speaker 5: curious about that without necessarily changing your mind all the time. 596 00:29:04,120 --> 00:29:08,200 Speaker 5: So that I think diversity is strength in the sense 597 00:29:08,240 --> 00:29:10,800 Speaker 5: that you want to bring as many different opinions and 598 00:29:10,880 --> 00:29:15,440 Speaker 5: viewpoints and worldviews into the equation. But at the end 599 00:29:15,440 --> 00:29:17,600 Speaker 5: of the day, you do have to decide what you think, 600 00:29:17,800 --> 00:29:20,680 Speaker 5: what you feel, what you're going to do, especially in 601 00:29:20,720 --> 00:29:23,440 Speaker 5: a position of leadership, like the leader ultimately has to 602 00:29:23,520 --> 00:29:26,920 Speaker 5: listen to everyone and then make and own the decision. 603 00:29:26,960 --> 00:29:29,240 Speaker 3: What it's based on, what their opinions are based off of. 604 00:29:29,320 --> 00:29:32,560 Speaker 3: Meaning your opinion or how you're feeling could be a 605 00:29:32,560 --> 00:29:34,520 Speaker 3: certain way, yep, but if it's based off of some 606 00:29:34,520 --> 00:29:37,520 Speaker 3: bullshit that's not true, then you're feeling is kind of wrong. 607 00:29:38,440 --> 00:29:40,840 Speaker 5: And I think that's our problem with expertise is people 608 00:29:40,880 --> 00:29:42,920 Speaker 5: are like, well, but I don't want that to be true, 609 00:29:43,040 --> 00:29:46,400 Speaker 5: and it's like, Okay, that's great, and I respect that 610 00:29:46,480 --> 00:29:48,760 Speaker 5: you don't like it, but it is what it is. 611 00:29:50,040 --> 00:29:50,280 Speaker 2: Wow. 612 00:29:52,120 --> 00:29:56,880 Speaker 3: Well, Ryan Holliday, Ladies and gentlemen, No book wisdom takes work, learn, apply, reply, repeat, 613 00:29:56,920 --> 00:29:59,000 Speaker 3: It's available right now and thank you for. 614 00:29:59,080 --> 00:30:01,200 Speaker 2: Joining all the pleasure you pull up right, you're the best. 615 00:30:01,240 --> 00:30:01,520 Speaker 4: Thank you. 616 00:30:01,560 --> 00:30:03,680 Speaker 2: Time brings some chocolate milk from a brown cow. 617 00:30:04,720 --> 00:30:06,520 Speaker 4: I do have a brown cow. It does not make 618 00:30:06,600 --> 00:30:07,280 Speaker 4: chocolate milk. 619 00:30:07,800 --> 00:30:11,560 Speaker 2: It's the breakfast club. Good morning, hold up every day 620 00:30:11,560 --> 00:30:13,440 Speaker 2: I wake click your ass up. 621 00:30:13,480 --> 00:30:14,400 Speaker 4: The breakfast Club. 622 00:30:14,640 --> 00:30:15,880 Speaker 2: You don't finish for y'all done,