1 00:00:15,476 --> 00:00:24,796 Speaker 1: Pushkin Ifday Happiness Love Listeners, Welcome back to our special 2 00:00:24,836 --> 00:00:28,236 Speaker 1: series on spring Cleaning Your Happiness. Today we're doing another 3 00:00:28,276 --> 00:00:30,596 Speaker 1: trip into our back catalog to find some of my 4 00:00:30,756 --> 00:00:34,716 Speaker 1: favorite past episodes, and today's choice is a conversation I 5 00:00:34,796 --> 00:00:37,276 Speaker 1: still come back to whenever I'm facing a tough emotion. 6 00:00:38,116 --> 00:00:40,316 Speaker 1: This episode is all about how to clean up the 7 00:00:40,316 --> 00:00:43,956 Speaker 1: way you manage negative feelings, and as happiness spring cleaning 8 00:00:43,996 --> 00:00:46,476 Speaker 1: hacks go, the ones you're about to hear today are 9 00:00:46,476 --> 00:00:52,236 Speaker 1: going to be super important because negative emotions feelings like sadness, anger, fear, overwhelm, 10 00:00:52,676 --> 00:00:54,836 Speaker 1: they tend to come up on the regular these days, 11 00:00:55,036 --> 00:00:57,596 Speaker 1: and we don't often deal with these emotions all that well. 12 00:00:58,196 --> 00:01:01,676 Speaker 1: Sometimes we try to avoid difficult feelings by distracting ourselves 13 00:01:01,916 --> 00:01:04,676 Speaker 1: or trying to suppress what we're feeling. Other times we 14 00:01:04,716 --> 00:01:07,556 Speaker 1: get very caught up in our negative emotions, keeping them 15 00:01:07,596 --> 00:01:10,916 Speaker 1: alive through rumination and worry. But what if we used 16 00:01:10,956 --> 00:01:14,436 Speaker 1: a healthier strategy. What if we instead got curious about 17 00:01:14,436 --> 00:01:16,996 Speaker 1: what our tough emotions were trying to tell us? What 18 00:01:17,076 --> 00:01:19,396 Speaker 1: if we looked more carefully at the solutions they might 19 00:01:19,396 --> 00:01:22,756 Speaker 1: be suggesting. These are the questions I'll be diving into 20 00:01:22,836 --> 00:01:26,556 Speaker 1: In this episode, I'll chat with Harvard's psychologist Susan David 21 00:01:26,836 --> 00:01:29,476 Speaker 1: about strategies we can use to get more agile with 22 00:01:29,516 --> 00:01:32,516 Speaker 1: our tough emotions, and Susan will share lots of tips 23 00:01:32,516 --> 00:01:35,036 Speaker 1: we can use not to sweep our negative emotions away, 24 00:01:35,436 --> 00:01:38,516 Speaker 1: but to embrace them as healthy data points. That's all 25 00:01:38,556 --> 00:01:41,316 Speaker 1: coming up right after some quick words from the Happiness 26 00:01:41,356 --> 00:02:05,756 Speaker 1: Lab sponsors. When we experience negative emotions, things like guilt 27 00:02:05,876 --> 00:02:10,156 Speaker 1: or sadness or anger, it can feel pretty intense, almost 28 00:02:10,156 --> 00:02:13,516 Speaker 1: like navigating a violent storm at sea. We might feel 29 00:02:13,556 --> 00:02:17,116 Speaker 1: buffeted and disoriented, or even a little sick to our stomachs. 30 00:02:18,196 --> 00:02:20,956 Speaker 1: At times like that, staying on an even emotional course 31 00:02:21,076 --> 00:02:24,196 Speaker 1: can feel impossible, like we'll never reach the safety of 32 00:02:24,316 --> 00:02:28,236 Speaker 1: dry land again. I've chosen this nautical analogy for a reason. 33 00:02:28,796 --> 00:02:31,036 Speaker 1: As I began reading more about the science of negative 34 00:02:31,076 --> 00:02:34,076 Speaker 1: emotions for this special season, I learned more about the 35 00:02:34,116 --> 00:02:38,116 Speaker 1: excellent work of Harvard Medical School psychologist Susan David. In 36 00:02:38,156 --> 00:02:40,996 Speaker 1: her book, Susan argues that negative feelings are like the 37 00:02:41,036 --> 00:02:44,236 Speaker 1: bright glow of a lighthouse in a storm. To become 38 00:02:44,276 --> 00:02:47,396 Speaker 1: a wise emotional seafarer, we need to heed the warning 39 00:02:47,476 --> 00:02:49,996 Speaker 1: of all the hidden rocks ahead. If we ignore the 40 00:02:50,076 --> 00:02:53,516 Speaker 1: light completely or venture too far out, we might get trapped. 41 00:02:54,756 --> 00:02:57,196 Speaker 1: The problem is that we tend not to listen to 42 00:02:57,236 --> 00:03:00,596 Speaker 1: the message our yucky feelings are sending, and that means 43 00:03:00,636 --> 00:03:06,956 Speaker 1: we sometimes find ourselves dashed on the emotional rocks. Susan's 44 00:03:06,996 --> 00:03:10,356 Speaker 1: interest in thinking more carefully about negative momone began early 45 00:03:10,396 --> 00:03:13,516 Speaker 1: in life. It was born of both family tragedy and 46 00:03:13,556 --> 00:03:15,236 Speaker 1: the grim politics of her homeland. 47 00:03:15,716 --> 00:03:18,476 Speaker 2: A lot of my work is born not in the 48 00:03:18,516 --> 00:03:21,556 Speaker 2: halls of Harvard or Yale, but in, like so many 49 00:03:21,596 --> 00:03:24,236 Speaker 2: of us, in the messy, tender business of life. So 50 00:03:24,396 --> 00:03:27,796 Speaker 2: I grew up in the white suburbs as a white 51 00:03:27,916 --> 00:03:31,236 Speaker 2: child in Aparthe, South Africa, and it was very much 52 00:03:31,356 --> 00:03:36,756 Speaker 2: a country and community that was committed to not seeing 53 00:03:37,156 --> 00:03:40,956 Speaker 2: and to denial. And so from a very early age 54 00:03:41,076 --> 00:03:44,396 Speaker 2: I actually became interested in this thread that I think 55 00:03:44,436 --> 00:03:48,716 Speaker 2: really runs through my work, which is seeing versus not seeing, 56 00:03:49,396 --> 00:03:53,076 Speaker 2: particularly when it comes to the emotional world, and how 57 00:03:53,516 --> 00:03:58,596 Speaker 2: whether we see ourselves impacts and how it impacts on 58 00:03:58,836 --> 00:04:02,276 Speaker 2: our capacity to be wholehearted humans. And so really that's 59 00:04:02,356 --> 00:04:04,716 Speaker 2: the thread of so much at my work. And then 60 00:04:04,796 --> 00:04:08,076 Speaker 2: when I was around fifteen years old. My father, who 61 00:04:08,156 --> 00:04:11,276 Speaker 2: was forty two, was diagnosed with terminal cancer, and I 62 00:04:11,316 --> 00:04:14,636 Speaker 2: remember my mother telling me to go and say goodbye 63 00:04:14,716 --> 00:04:18,396 Speaker 2: to him. He was dying in our home, and I 64 00:04:18,516 --> 00:04:21,556 Speaker 2: went to his room. I opened the door. It was 65 00:04:21,636 --> 00:04:23,396 Speaker 2: just before I headed off for school. It was on 66 00:04:23,436 --> 00:04:26,676 Speaker 2: a Friday, and my dad was lying in bed and 67 00:04:26,716 --> 00:04:30,316 Speaker 2: his eyes were closed, and I just remember this feeling 68 00:04:30,356 --> 00:04:36,316 Speaker 2: that even though he couldn't see me, that he could 69 00:04:36,516 --> 00:04:39,396 Speaker 2: he knew me. I'd always felt seen in his presence. 70 00:04:39,876 --> 00:04:44,356 Speaker 2: And then also overlayered on that was this experience that 71 00:04:44,436 --> 00:04:47,836 Speaker 2: I had after my father's death, which was everyone telling 72 00:04:47,876 --> 00:04:51,636 Speaker 2: me to just be strong, keep smiling. And I am 73 00:04:51,676 --> 00:04:54,436 Speaker 2: a fifteen year old and I become the master of 74 00:04:54,476 --> 00:04:57,756 Speaker 2: being okay. You know, I don't drop a single grade. 75 00:04:57,796 --> 00:04:59,756 Speaker 2: People ask me how I'm doing, and in a world 76 00:04:59,796 --> 00:05:04,276 Speaker 2: that seems to value relentless positivity as a marker of 77 00:05:04,356 --> 00:05:06,996 Speaker 2: so called strength, I keep saying I'm okay, I'm okay. 78 00:05:07,076 --> 00:05:10,396 Speaker 2: But the truth, Laurie, is that back home, my family 79 00:05:10,436 --> 00:05:15,556 Speaker 2: is struggling. My father has died in debt, my mother's 80 00:05:15,636 --> 00:05:18,636 Speaker 2: grieving the love of her life. She's raising three children. 81 00:05:19,236 --> 00:05:22,276 Speaker 2: The creditors are knocking, and I, as a child, was 82 00:05:22,356 --> 00:05:27,596 Speaker 2: just struggling. I felt so untethered from myself and so 83 00:05:27,756 --> 00:05:31,436 Speaker 2: untethered in this experience of grief, and I started to 84 00:05:31,436 --> 00:05:34,916 Speaker 2: respond to that as so many people do when they 85 00:05:35,236 --> 00:05:40,796 Speaker 2: experiencing emotional pain, especially unprocessed emotional pain, which is for me, 86 00:05:40,996 --> 00:05:43,876 Speaker 2: that took the form of binging and purging, refusing to 87 00:05:43,916 --> 00:05:46,076 Speaker 2: accept the full way to my grief. And then the 88 00:05:46,116 --> 00:05:49,156 Speaker 2: last thing that I would just add to this journey 89 00:05:49,196 --> 00:05:51,716 Speaker 2: of how I come to my work is I remember 90 00:05:51,756 --> 00:05:55,196 Speaker 2: when I was then, probably about six months later, I'm 91 00:05:55,316 --> 00:06:01,036 Speaker 2: in this struggle, and I recall this extraordinary teacher handing 92 00:06:01,036 --> 00:06:04,156 Speaker 2: out these blank notebooks to the class, and she was 93 00:06:04,196 --> 00:06:06,716 Speaker 2: my English teacher, and she looked at me and she said, 94 00:06:07,316 --> 00:06:09,076 Speaker 2: and the invitation of the class, but it felt like 95 00:06:09,156 --> 00:06:13,276 Speaker 2: it was to me. She said, right, tell the truth, right, 96 00:06:13,396 --> 00:06:16,556 Speaker 2: like no one is reading. And so Laura, I started 97 00:06:16,556 --> 00:06:21,356 Speaker 2: this correspondence with this teacher. It was this correspondence where 98 00:06:21,396 --> 00:06:24,796 Speaker 2: I would journal, and I would hand in my journal 99 00:06:24,796 --> 00:06:27,116 Speaker 2: and she would write back to me in pencil. It 100 00:06:27,156 --> 00:06:29,356 Speaker 2: was my story and she was writing back in pencil 101 00:06:29,956 --> 00:06:33,156 Speaker 2: thoughts or responses to what I was experiencing, and so 102 00:06:33,236 --> 00:06:37,236 Speaker 2: I had this feeling that actually became clear to me, 103 00:06:37,316 --> 00:06:40,076 Speaker 2: which was this act that I was engaging in with 104 00:06:40,276 --> 00:06:44,716 Speaker 2: my teacher was actually revolutionary for me. It was counter 105 00:06:44,916 --> 00:06:47,556 Speaker 2: to what I was being told in society, which is 106 00:06:47,676 --> 00:06:50,596 Speaker 2: just get on with it and just be positive. And instead, 107 00:06:50,636 --> 00:06:52,876 Speaker 2: what I was doing is I was facing into these 108 00:06:53,076 --> 00:06:58,396 Speaker 2: really difficulty emotions and experiences, and that that secret silent 109 00:06:58,476 --> 00:07:01,796 Speaker 2: correspondence with the teacher, as well as the secret silence 110 00:07:01,796 --> 00:07:05,556 Speaker 2: correspondence with my own heart, actually landed up shaping my career. 111 00:07:05,676 --> 00:07:08,916 Speaker 2: So I became an emotions researcher and I was ready 112 00:07:09,236 --> 00:07:13,316 Speaker 2: just foundationally interested in what is told to us by 113 00:07:13,476 --> 00:07:19,196 Speaker 2: society about emotions and in what ways does that narrative 114 00:07:19,476 --> 00:07:23,436 Speaker 2: actually not serve us. In fact, completely counter to making 115 00:07:23,516 --> 00:07:26,236 Speaker 2: us strong and more resident, it actually makes us more fragile. 116 00:07:26,316 --> 00:07:29,156 Speaker 2: And that became the threat of the work that I do. 117 00:07:29,396 --> 00:07:31,676 Speaker 1: And so I love this story because, you know, it 118 00:07:31,756 --> 00:07:34,196 Speaker 1: shows the kind of way that we normally deal with 119 00:07:34,236 --> 00:07:36,876 Speaker 1: these undesirable emotions, you know, both kind of the ways 120 00:07:36,916 --> 00:07:38,796 Speaker 1: that society tells us we need to deal with them, 121 00:07:39,076 --> 00:07:43,196 Speaker 1: but also our natural instinct which is like you know, avoid, avoid, avoid, 122 00:07:43,316 --> 00:07:45,236 Speaker 1: Like in the book, you kind of walk through so 123 00:07:45,316 --> 00:07:48,956 Speaker 1: many bad reactions we have when we have these undesirable emotions. 124 00:07:49,276 --> 00:07:51,476 Speaker 1: You know, one of these is sort of jumping into 125 00:07:51,516 --> 00:07:54,476 Speaker 1: our own productivity and overwork, you know. Talk about how 126 00:07:54,516 --> 00:07:57,036 Speaker 1: this strategy plays out and why it's so problematic for 127 00:07:57,116 --> 00:07:58,796 Speaker 1: dealing with undesirable emotions. 128 00:07:59,356 --> 00:08:01,316 Speaker 2: Yeah, So, what I've found in my work is that 129 00:08:01,716 --> 00:08:06,476 Speaker 2: typically when people have difficult, tough emotions, they very often 130 00:08:06,516 --> 00:08:10,676 Speaker 2: have one of two ways of responding. First is what 131 00:08:10,756 --> 00:08:13,956 Speaker 2: I call bottling, and bottling is basically where you push 132 00:08:13,956 --> 00:08:16,836 Speaker 2: aside the difficulty emotion, often with good intentions. I've got 133 00:08:16,836 --> 00:08:18,756 Speaker 2: so much to do. I just can't get on, you know, 134 00:08:18,836 --> 00:08:20,716 Speaker 2: I've just got to get on with my life. And 135 00:08:21,396 --> 00:08:23,796 Speaker 2: sometimes the reason that we do this is because we 136 00:08:24,596 --> 00:08:29,316 Speaker 2: fear that by facing into the difficulty emotion that we 137 00:08:29,356 --> 00:08:31,556 Speaker 2: don't have the skills to deal with it, or that 138 00:08:31,916 --> 00:08:35,956 Speaker 2: somehow it's just better to be productive and focused on 139 00:08:36,516 --> 00:08:39,916 Speaker 2: moving forward, and so botling emotions is really this idea 140 00:08:39,916 --> 00:08:43,756 Speaker 2: that we push the emotions aside for whatever reason, and 141 00:08:44,796 --> 00:08:48,276 Speaker 2: we think that that actually is helpful. But there's a 142 00:08:48,316 --> 00:08:51,276 Speaker 2: body of research showing that when we push aside these 143 00:08:51,316 --> 00:08:55,876 Speaker 2: difficulty emotions there's actually an amplification effect which is really fascinating. 144 00:08:55,876 --> 00:08:59,196 Speaker 2: And for anyone who's ever tried not to eat a 145 00:08:59,236 --> 00:09:02,436 Speaker 2: big piece of chocolate cake that's tempting you in the refrigerator, 146 00:09:02,876 --> 00:09:05,116 Speaker 2: you know that the more you try not to think 147 00:09:05,156 --> 00:09:07,436 Speaker 2: about that piece of chocolate cake, the more you dream 148 00:09:07,476 --> 00:09:10,836 Speaker 2: about it. And the same experience happens with emotions. And 149 00:09:10,916 --> 00:09:13,156 Speaker 2: when I talk about emotions in this way, I'm both 150 00:09:13,236 --> 00:09:17,916 Speaker 2: talking about the big moments of emotions, the grief, the loneliness, 151 00:09:17,996 --> 00:09:22,596 Speaker 2: the loss, but I'm also talking about the smaller experiences 152 00:09:22,596 --> 00:09:25,156 Speaker 2: that we might have day to day. We feel undermined 153 00:09:25,156 --> 00:09:29,076 Speaker 2: in a meeting, we feel shut down, we feel like 154 00:09:29,116 --> 00:09:31,276 Speaker 2: we just want to roll our eyes at the change 155 00:09:31,356 --> 00:09:33,876 Speaker 2: that's going on in our organization. So we have every 156 00:09:33,956 --> 00:09:37,676 Speaker 2: day thousands of these kinds of emotional experiences, and on 157 00:09:37,716 --> 00:09:40,076 Speaker 2: the one hand, we can bottle them, we push them aside. 158 00:09:40,356 --> 00:09:44,396 Speaker 2: But there is this amplification effect. And what becomes clear 159 00:09:44,436 --> 00:09:47,156 Speaker 2: when we look at the research is that when we 160 00:09:47,196 --> 00:09:49,636 Speaker 2: do this as not just a once off, but as 161 00:09:49,676 --> 00:09:54,716 Speaker 2: a tendency, actually it undermines our wellbeing. We have lower 162 00:09:54,836 --> 00:09:59,516 Speaker 2: levels of resilience, high depression, high anxiety. It impacts on 163 00:09:59,556 --> 00:10:02,596 Speaker 2: the quality of our relationships and even on our ability 164 00:10:02,636 --> 00:10:06,916 Speaker 2: to achieve our goals, because if you take these emotions 165 00:10:06,916 --> 00:10:09,516 Speaker 2: that are trying to signal something to you, oh, you 166 00:10:09,596 --> 00:10:11,956 Speaker 2: bought in your job or things on going well, and 167 00:10:11,996 --> 00:10:15,156 Speaker 2: you push them aside, then you aren't actually adapting to 168 00:10:15,236 --> 00:10:17,596 Speaker 2: the reality of your life, and therefore you on putting 169 00:10:18,076 --> 00:10:21,396 Speaker 2: strategies in place to move forward effectively. So that's one 170 00:10:21,396 --> 00:10:25,236 Speaker 2: where we can deal with difficulty emotions. The other looks 171 00:10:25,276 --> 00:10:28,316 Speaker 2: so different, and yet a lot of the consequences are 172 00:10:28,316 --> 00:10:31,396 Speaker 2: the same. So brooding is where we get stuck in 173 00:10:31,436 --> 00:10:35,996 Speaker 2: the difficulty motion. We get victimized by our newsfeed, we 174 00:10:36,076 --> 00:10:39,796 Speaker 2: get hooked on being right, We go over and over 175 00:10:39,876 --> 00:10:42,036 Speaker 2: and over in our heads, why it is we so 176 00:10:42,356 --> 00:10:46,876 Speaker 2: unhappy with something that's happened. And again, even though this 177 00:10:46,996 --> 00:10:51,436 Speaker 2: might have the semblance of being effective, it actually keeps 178 00:10:51,476 --> 00:10:54,716 Speaker 2: us very stuck in the emotional experience and not moving 179 00:10:54,756 --> 00:10:57,436 Speaker 2: forward effectively. And so if we think about this difference, 180 00:10:57,436 --> 00:11:02,316 Speaker 2: it's really fascinating because brooding is similarly associated with lower 181 00:11:02,396 --> 00:11:07,476 Speaker 2: levels of well being, goal attainment, and relationships. And I 182 00:11:07,636 --> 00:11:11,436 Speaker 2: almost imagine Laureate's life. If you've got a pile of 183 00:11:11,476 --> 00:11:14,596 Speaker 2: books that you're holding in your emotions or the books. 184 00:11:14,956 --> 00:11:18,396 Speaker 2: Bottling is where you hold those books so far away 185 00:11:18,436 --> 00:11:22,356 Speaker 2: from you that ultimately the energy and effort that's involved 186 00:11:22,436 --> 00:11:26,356 Speaker 2: in holding them far from you leads you to drop them, 187 00:11:26,636 --> 00:11:29,116 Speaker 2: and so you might snap at the person, or you 188 00:11:29,236 --> 00:11:33,916 Speaker 2: cry unexpectedly or court of God. Byther's difficulty emotions, when 189 00:11:34,236 --> 00:11:38,356 Speaker 2: we brooding, we hold the book so tightly to ourselves, 190 00:11:38,716 --> 00:11:42,356 Speaker 2: and so we're not able to see the child who's 191 00:11:42,436 --> 00:11:45,156 Speaker 2: giving us a hug or who wants to be with us. 192 00:11:45,196 --> 00:11:48,556 Speaker 2: We unable to be and breathe and be wise in 193 00:11:48,596 --> 00:11:49,036 Speaker 2: the world. 194 00:11:50,356 --> 00:11:53,716 Speaker 1: So bottling up pain, anger, and anxiety doesn't really work, 195 00:11:54,276 --> 00:11:59,476 Speaker 1: But allowing these emotions to fully take over doesn't help either. Unfortunately, 196 00:11:59,996 --> 00:12:02,556 Speaker 1: these both tend to be our go to strategies when 197 00:12:02,596 --> 00:12:05,956 Speaker 1: we're facing a tough situation. When we get back from 198 00:12:05,996 --> 00:12:09,436 Speaker 1: the break, Susan will share a potential middle path use 199 00:12:09,476 --> 00:12:12,796 Speaker 1: to navigate emotions. As we'll see, it's a strategy that 200 00:12:12,836 --> 00:12:15,436 Speaker 1: we can all use to find greater happiness. No matter 201 00:12:15,476 --> 00:12:18,636 Speaker 1: what life throws our way, the happiness lab will be 202 00:12:18,716 --> 00:12:41,556 Speaker 1: right back. Psychologist Susan David often explains the idea of 203 00:12:41,596 --> 00:12:44,956 Speaker 1: emotional agility with a story, the sad tale of a 204 00:12:44,996 --> 00:12:47,956 Speaker 1: mariner who was too stubborn to switch course when something 205 00:12:47,996 --> 00:12:49,436 Speaker 1: bad popped up on the horizon. 206 00:12:50,236 --> 00:12:52,916 Speaker 2: It's a beautiful story, and it's this idea that there's 207 00:12:53,036 --> 00:12:57,476 Speaker 2: a captain on a ship and he's basically trying to 208 00:12:57,516 --> 00:13:01,116 Speaker 2: steer the ship effectively. So he says to a junior seaman, 209 00:13:01,396 --> 00:13:03,276 Speaker 2: let me know if you see anything. And the seaman 210 00:13:03,356 --> 00:13:07,316 Speaker 2: comes to me and says, I'm seeing something in front 211 00:13:07,316 --> 00:13:10,076 Speaker 2: of us and we are going to bash into it. 212 00:13:10,356 --> 00:13:13,276 Speaker 2: And the captain gets like more and more arrogant and says, 213 00:13:13,756 --> 00:13:16,076 Speaker 2: tell them that we are on a collision course and 214 00:13:16,156 --> 00:13:18,756 Speaker 2: tell them to move, Tell them to move. And so 215 00:13:18,796 --> 00:13:22,676 Speaker 2: the semen keeps on relaying this message to the obstacle, saying, 216 00:13:22,836 --> 00:13:24,316 Speaker 2: you know, you've got to move out the way. You've 217 00:13:24,316 --> 00:13:27,036 Speaker 2: got to move out the way. And ultimately a message 218 00:13:27,076 --> 00:13:30,676 Speaker 2: comes back from the so called obstacle saying, actually you 219 00:13:30,996 --> 00:13:35,276 Speaker 2: need to move. Why because we are a lighthouse, sir. 220 00:13:36,516 --> 00:13:40,236 Speaker 2: And it's a beautiful story because really, if we think 221 00:13:40,276 --> 00:13:45,276 Speaker 2: about what a lighthouse is, a lighthouse is helping us 222 00:13:45,636 --> 00:13:49,676 Speaker 2: to navigate. A lighthouse is helping us to develop some 223 00:13:50,316 --> 00:13:55,236 Speaker 2: sense of steering around the rocky shores of life. And 224 00:13:55,316 --> 00:13:58,196 Speaker 2: yet often if we think about the metaphor if we 225 00:13:58,236 --> 00:14:02,756 Speaker 2: want to extend it, our emotions are the signal. You know, 226 00:14:02,836 --> 00:14:06,956 Speaker 2: our emotions are signaling things that are important. Our emotions 227 00:14:06,996 --> 00:14:10,596 Speaker 2: might be signaling that this job isn't going as wonderfully 228 00:14:10,596 --> 00:14:14,036 Speaker 2: as you wanted, or the relationship is actually not working out. 229 00:14:14,516 --> 00:14:20,556 Speaker 2: And yet when we keep on either avoiding the emotions 230 00:14:20,756 --> 00:14:24,956 Speaker 2: or not connecting with them effectively, then we aren't actually 231 00:14:25,196 --> 00:14:29,436 Speaker 2: using that GPS system in the way that it was intended. 232 00:14:29,876 --> 00:14:32,876 Speaker 2: And so we then struggle to be agile. We struggle 233 00:14:32,956 --> 00:14:35,876 Speaker 2: to be effective. The world is changing around us, and 234 00:14:36,796 --> 00:14:40,156 Speaker 2: we need as human beings to be able to have 235 00:14:40,436 --> 00:14:42,796 Speaker 2: the capacity to deal with the world as it is, 236 00:14:43,596 --> 00:14:47,916 Speaker 2: which is a world that is fragile, in which illness 237 00:14:47,996 --> 00:14:52,756 Speaker 2: is interwoven with health, and which love and loss are connected, 238 00:14:52,996 --> 00:14:56,956 Speaker 2: in which we raise children, and then one day that 239 00:14:57,396 --> 00:15:03,516 Speaker 2: child leaves. The emotions that we experience are broken to 240 00:15:03,676 --> 00:15:07,276 Speaker 2: help us with the reality of life which is changing 241 00:15:07,316 --> 00:15:11,956 Speaker 2: and fragile. And yet this notion that exists in our society, 242 00:15:12,036 --> 00:15:16,076 Speaker 2: which is that these difficulty emotions are bad. We need 243 00:15:16,116 --> 00:15:19,596 Speaker 2: to ignore them. We just need to fake positivity. It 244 00:15:19,876 --> 00:15:23,116 Speaker 2: sounds good on the surface very often, but actually what 245 00:15:23,156 --> 00:15:26,476 Speaker 2: it does is it undermines our capacity to be whole 246 00:15:26,556 --> 00:15:27,716 Speaker 2: human beings in the world. 247 00:15:28,076 --> 00:15:30,076 Speaker 1: And so you've argued that the right way to kind 248 00:15:30,116 --> 00:15:32,316 Speaker 1: of listen to this, you know, lighthouse signal of our 249 00:15:32,316 --> 00:15:35,556 Speaker 1: emotions is with this notion of emotional agility and trying 250 00:15:35,596 --> 00:15:38,836 Speaker 1: to increase our emotional agility. Explain what you mean by 251 00:15:38,836 --> 00:15:40,316 Speaker 1: emotional agility? What is it? 252 00:15:40,596 --> 00:15:46,636 Speaker 2: So, emotional agility is the ability to be with your 253 00:15:46,756 --> 00:15:52,356 Speaker 2: everyday thoughts and emotions and experiences in a way that 254 00:15:53,276 --> 00:15:56,756 Speaker 2: is healthy. And I'll go into what I mean by 255 00:15:56,796 --> 00:15:59,596 Speaker 2: the word healthy, but it's being with these experiences in 256 00:15:59,596 --> 00:16:03,076 Speaker 2: a way that's healthy so that you can respond effectively 257 00:16:03,116 --> 00:16:05,956 Speaker 2: to everyday situations. So let me break that down a 258 00:16:05,956 --> 00:16:10,916 Speaker 2: little bit. We all have thousands literally, we have approximately 259 00:16:11,236 --> 00:16:16,116 Speaker 2: according to some research, sixteen thousand spoken thoughts every day 260 00:16:16,196 --> 00:16:19,756 Speaker 2: and many more course through our minds experiences of am 261 00:16:19,796 --> 00:16:21,396 Speaker 2: I good enough? Am I not good enough? Is the job? 262 00:16:21,396 --> 00:16:23,356 Speaker 2: But you know, all the stuff goes on in our minds. 263 00:16:23,556 --> 00:16:30,756 Speaker 2: We have all of our emotions, emotions like fear and sadness, grief, loneliness, loss, stress, anxiety. 264 00:16:30,796 --> 00:16:33,436 Speaker 2: We have all of it, and we also have stories. 265 00:16:33,556 --> 00:16:36,396 Speaker 2: Some of our stories were written on our mental chalkboards 266 00:16:36,436 --> 00:16:39,516 Speaker 2: when we were five years old, stories about who we are, 267 00:16:39,596 --> 00:16:42,956 Speaker 2: whether we're good enough, whether we creative or not creative. 268 00:16:42,996 --> 00:16:47,956 Speaker 2: And so we have this normal experience of these thoughts, emotions, 269 00:16:47,996 --> 00:16:54,036 Speaker 2: and stories, and we need to have skills that enable 270 00:16:54,116 --> 00:16:57,396 Speaker 2: us to deal with these in ways that are healthy. Now, 271 00:16:57,556 --> 00:17:02,156 Speaker 2: what's not healthy is when we either push them aside, 272 00:17:02,596 --> 00:17:06,156 Speaker 2: or we fail to learn from them, or when we 273 00:17:06,196 --> 00:17:09,236 Speaker 2: allow them to call the shots. And so what emotional 274 00:17:09,556 --> 00:17:13,876 Speaker 2: is it's the ability to hold these thoughts and emotions 275 00:17:13,916 --> 00:17:16,876 Speaker 2: and stories lightly, So do not ignore them, but to 276 00:17:16,996 --> 00:17:20,836 Speaker 2: hold them lightly, to recognize, for instance, that when we 277 00:17:20,996 --> 00:17:26,076 Speaker 2: experience a difficulty emotion, that difficulty emotion, just like the lighthouse, 278 00:17:26,916 --> 00:17:31,836 Speaker 2: is tappiness on the shoulder, and it's saying, Hm, there's 279 00:17:31,916 --> 00:17:34,476 Speaker 2: this thing that's important to you, and Laura, I'll give 280 00:17:34,476 --> 00:17:40,356 Speaker 2: you an example, loneliness. We don't like experiencing loneliness, but 281 00:17:40,476 --> 00:17:46,116 Speaker 2: loneliness is often signaling, signposting that intimacy and connection are 282 00:17:46,156 --> 00:17:49,476 Speaker 2: important for you and that you don't have enough of 283 00:17:49,516 --> 00:17:54,636 Speaker 2: it in your life right now. Boredom at work. We 284 00:17:54,676 --> 00:17:56,156 Speaker 2: could look at boredom and go, I'm just going to 285 00:17:56,236 --> 00:17:58,276 Speaker 2: ignore it because at least I've got a job. In 286 00:17:58,316 --> 00:18:01,876 Speaker 2: other words, bottling the difficult experience. Or we might say, 287 00:18:02,156 --> 00:18:06,116 Speaker 2: what is that boredom signaling? It's signaling that I value 288 00:18:06,156 --> 00:18:08,156 Speaker 2: growth and learning and I don't have enough of it. 289 00:18:09,116 --> 00:18:11,836 Speaker 2: Often think grief, you know, grief is love looking for 290 00:18:11,876 --> 00:18:15,276 Speaker 2: its home. Grief is tapping us on the shoulder saying, 291 00:18:15,956 --> 00:18:19,036 Speaker 2: remember me, Think of the things that you learn from me, 292 00:18:19,916 --> 00:18:23,796 Speaker 2: Hold me, I'm still with you in some way, and 293 00:18:24,676 --> 00:18:28,996 Speaker 2: bring that to life in a way that feels special 294 00:18:29,036 --> 00:18:33,436 Speaker 2: and connected. And so holding our thoughts and emotions lightly 295 00:18:33,756 --> 00:18:36,876 Speaker 2: is by being curious with them and being able to 296 00:18:36,916 --> 00:18:41,716 Speaker 2: recognize that when we experience these difficulty emotions. While the 297 00:18:41,796 --> 00:18:45,196 Speaker 2: dictates of society might say, oh, you've just got to 298 00:18:45,236 --> 00:18:47,596 Speaker 2: be positive, you've just got to push them aside, in fact, 299 00:18:47,636 --> 00:18:53,276 Speaker 2: there's extraordinary beauty when we just slow down with them 300 00:18:53,436 --> 00:18:56,396 Speaker 2: in a way that is curious. Huh, what is this 301 00:18:56,476 --> 00:19:02,436 Speaker 2: emotion telling me about my needs or my values? There's 302 00:19:02,476 --> 00:19:06,556 Speaker 2: also connected with that, lorry, is this need to be 303 00:19:06,676 --> 00:19:10,756 Speaker 2: compassionate because it's hard to human it's hard to be 304 00:19:10,796 --> 00:19:13,676 Speaker 2: a human being in the world, regardless of what the 305 00:19:13,716 --> 00:19:18,476 Speaker 2: circumstances are of your world. And so emotional agility is 306 00:19:18,556 --> 00:19:20,836 Speaker 2: really about this ability to be with our emotions in 307 00:19:20,876 --> 00:19:26,476 Speaker 2: ways that are curious, compassionate, and courageous. Courageous because we 308 00:19:26,516 --> 00:19:29,396 Speaker 2: don't often or always like what we see and feel, 309 00:19:29,996 --> 00:19:33,436 Speaker 2: so that we can then understand our values and our 310 00:19:33,516 --> 00:19:36,316 Speaker 2: needs and move forward in the direction of those values. 311 00:19:36,676 --> 00:19:38,276 Speaker 1: And so one of the ways you've argued we can 312 00:19:38,316 --> 00:19:41,196 Speaker 1: start this process of kind of gaining our emotional agility 313 00:19:41,356 --> 00:19:43,836 Speaker 1: is first to kind of show up and kind of 314 00:19:43,876 --> 00:19:47,276 Speaker 1: non judgmentally see the emotions we're dealing with. Why I 315 00:19:47,276 --> 00:19:49,236 Speaker 1: guess showing up for our emotions so hard it's kind 316 00:19:49,276 --> 00:19:51,236 Speaker 1: of funny, right, Like they're there, but we tend not 317 00:19:51,316 --> 00:19:53,676 Speaker 1: to kind of know what's going on when we experience 318 00:19:53,756 --> 00:19:55,196 Speaker 1: these undesirable emotions. 319 00:19:55,476 --> 00:19:58,236 Speaker 2: Yeah, we described a little bit earlier. We spoke a 320 00:19:58,276 --> 00:20:01,876 Speaker 2: bit about these narratives that exist in society, and it's 321 00:20:01,876 --> 00:20:04,916 Speaker 2: important to recognize that all of us grow up with 322 00:20:05,276 --> 00:20:08,836 Speaker 2: what are called display rules. Display rules are often the 323 00:20:09,676 --> 00:20:15,876 Speaker 2: implicit and sometimes even explicit rules that may be in 324 00:20:15,956 --> 00:20:19,676 Speaker 2: existence in the families that we were born into, or 325 00:20:19,716 --> 00:20:21,916 Speaker 2: even in society at large. And an example of a 326 00:20:21,956 --> 00:20:25,396 Speaker 2: display rule might be you come home from school as 327 00:20:25,396 --> 00:20:28,796 Speaker 2: a child and you angry, and a parent says to you, 328 00:20:29,756 --> 00:20:31,756 Speaker 2: why are you angry, And you say, I'm angry because 329 00:20:31,836 --> 00:20:34,756 Speaker 2: you know, Jack didn't play with me today, And the parent, 330 00:20:34,836 --> 00:20:37,916 Speaker 2: with great intentions, jumps in and says something like, don't worry, 331 00:20:37,996 --> 00:20:40,236 Speaker 2: I'll play with you, you know, or I'll phone the 332 00:20:40,276 --> 00:20:43,836 Speaker 2: mean person's parents. Let's go back cupcakes. And it's done 333 00:20:43,836 --> 00:20:46,596 Speaker 2: with really good intentions. But what that might signal to 334 00:20:46,676 --> 00:20:49,996 Speaker 2: you is that joy and happiness are allowed in this house, 335 00:20:50,076 --> 00:20:53,876 Speaker 2: and that anger isn't, or that sadness isn't. Sometimes these 336 00:20:53,956 --> 00:20:56,756 Speaker 2: rules are explicit. Sometimes someone might say, go to your 337 00:20:56,836 --> 00:20:58,276 Speaker 2: room and come out when you've got a smile on 338 00:20:58,316 --> 00:21:02,676 Speaker 2: your face. Display rules exist in our communities. When we 339 00:21:02,756 --> 00:21:08,596 Speaker 2: say to someone with cancer who is terminally ill and 340 00:21:08,716 --> 00:21:12,516 Speaker 2: is suffering, and we said to the person, just keep positive, 341 00:21:12,876 --> 00:21:15,076 Speaker 2: what we are conveying is a display rule, which is 342 00:21:15,116 --> 00:21:20,876 Speaker 2: that their experience of pain and grief and hardship has 343 00:21:20,916 --> 00:21:23,636 Speaker 2: no place. And so it's really important to recognize that 344 00:21:23,676 --> 00:21:27,156 Speaker 2: one of the reasons that we unsee our difficulty emotions 345 00:21:27,596 --> 00:21:30,236 Speaker 2: is because, despite the fact that they exist and are 346 00:21:30,276 --> 00:21:34,396 Speaker 2: all around us, there are these narratives that basically say 347 00:21:34,716 --> 00:21:38,716 Speaker 2: either they are not allowed, or they don't belong or 348 00:21:38,916 --> 00:21:42,076 Speaker 2: we live in a world that says we can fix everything. 349 00:21:42,516 --> 00:21:44,236 Speaker 2: If we don't like our car, we can buy a 350 00:21:44,316 --> 00:21:46,396 Speaker 2: new car. If we don't like the walls, we can 351 00:21:46,396 --> 00:21:48,676 Speaker 2: paint them a different color. And so when we experience 352 00:21:48,716 --> 00:21:51,036 Speaker 2: these difficult thoughts and emotions, we can just fix them. 353 00:21:51,076 --> 00:21:53,756 Speaker 2: We can find ways to be grateful, we can think 354 00:21:53,796 --> 00:21:56,636 Speaker 2: positive and everything will be okay. But it actually doesn't work. 355 00:21:56,916 --> 00:22:00,196 Speaker 2: And so what we are doing when we start cultivating 356 00:22:00,396 --> 00:22:03,756 Speaker 2: this capacity to show up to our difficulty emotions is 357 00:22:03,796 --> 00:22:08,156 Speaker 2: we stop recognizing that when a city is being bombed, 358 00:22:08,476 --> 00:22:12,236 Speaker 2: it's very difficult to rebuild, it's very difficult to find 359 00:22:12,276 --> 00:22:14,636 Speaker 2: a way forward in the midst of the bombing. It's 360 00:22:14,716 --> 00:22:18,956 Speaker 2: only when there is an internal cease fire that one 361 00:22:18,996 --> 00:22:23,716 Speaker 2: is able to start moving forward effectively. And so if 362 00:22:23,756 --> 00:22:26,396 Speaker 2: you in a space with your difficulty emotions where you say, 363 00:22:26,436 --> 00:22:28,916 Speaker 2: I'm not about a habit, I should be grateful. I 364 00:22:28,956 --> 00:22:31,676 Speaker 2: need to just think positive. Literally, what you are doing 365 00:22:31,756 --> 00:22:35,356 Speaker 2: is you're in a little war with yourself about your 366 00:22:35,396 --> 00:22:38,356 Speaker 2: own emotions and your own suffering. And so a really 367 00:22:38,356 --> 00:22:42,436 Speaker 2: important part of showing up is ending that war, literally, 368 00:22:42,556 --> 00:22:45,236 Speaker 2: ending the war. This is what I feel. This is 369 00:22:45,316 --> 00:22:48,196 Speaker 2: my experience. There's no wrong or right way to be 370 00:22:48,836 --> 00:22:52,476 Speaker 2: experiencing right now. This is my feeling. And when we 371 00:22:52,516 --> 00:22:56,236 Speaker 2: show up to those difficulty emotions with compassion, which is 372 00:22:56,396 --> 00:23:01,996 Speaker 2: really important, we are then able to start crafting a 373 00:23:02,036 --> 00:23:04,556 Speaker 2: way forward with the experience. 374 00:23:05,236 --> 00:23:07,036 Speaker 1: And one of the ways we can really kind of 375 00:23:07,116 --> 00:23:09,316 Speaker 1: develop that compassion is to kind of be I'm a 376 00:23:09,356 --> 00:23:12,436 Speaker 1: little bit curious about the emotions we're experiencing. You know, 377 00:23:12,476 --> 00:23:14,916 Speaker 1: sometimes we don't even know what they are. And you've 378 00:23:14,996 --> 00:23:16,516 Speaker 1: argued that one way we can do that is to 379 00:23:16,636 --> 00:23:19,596 Speaker 1: literally label our emotions. You know, why is the labeling 380 00:23:19,636 --> 00:23:20,876 Speaker 1: of emotions so important? 381 00:23:21,316 --> 00:23:25,396 Speaker 2: So labeling emotions, you know, it's almost like an emotional superpower. 382 00:23:25,796 --> 00:23:30,876 Speaker 2: So because there is a tragedy. And that sounds dramatic, 383 00:23:30,996 --> 00:23:33,796 Speaker 2: but I think it to be true. There is a 384 00:23:33,956 --> 00:23:38,276 Speaker 2: tragedy that exists in our schools and in our workplaces, 385 00:23:38,636 --> 00:23:43,516 Speaker 2: where emotions have historically, for a number of reasons that 386 00:23:43,556 --> 00:23:46,716 Speaker 2: we could explore, have been pushed aside. They're seen as 387 00:23:46,716 --> 00:23:51,436 Speaker 2: soft skills, they are seen as being less important than 388 00:23:51,476 --> 00:23:55,756 Speaker 2: things like math and strategy. What we have is literally 389 00:23:56,196 --> 00:24:04,436 Speaker 2: entire generations of people who have not been taught foundational 390 00:24:04,836 --> 00:24:10,236 Speaker 2: emotional agility skills, and these are core to our well being, 391 00:24:10,436 --> 00:24:14,556 Speaker 2: to our mental health, to our relationships. Internal pain always 392 00:24:14,796 --> 00:24:17,756 Speaker 2: comes out and the people that pay the price, ourselves 393 00:24:17,756 --> 00:24:21,516 Speaker 2: and our community, is our children. And so one of 394 00:24:21,556 --> 00:24:25,476 Speaker 2: the emotional skills that is not taught is the superpower, 395 00:24:25,516 --> 00:24:28,316 Speaker 2: which is emotion granularity. And I'll give you an example of 396 00:24:28,316 --> 00:24:30,156 Speaker 2: what I mean by this. Often, when we've had a 397 00:24:30,196 --> 00:24:34,156 Speaker 2: tough day, we'll say something like I'm stressed. We use 398 00:24:34,196 --> 00:24:38,916 Speaker 2: a very broad brushstroke, black and white label to describe 399 00:24:38,916 --> 00:24:41,796 Speaker 2: the emotion that we've experienced, and stressed is the most 400 00:24:41,836 --> 00:24:44,756 Speaker 2: common one I hear, but people might have their own 401 00:24:44,956 --> 00:24:47,556 Speaker 2: that they use that have become very familiar. And it's 402 00:24:47,596 --> 00:24:50,876 Speaker 2: basically this label that you use, that your quick go 403 00:24:50,956 --> 00:24:53,516 Speaker 2: to label to describe what it is you're feeling. Now, 404 00:24:53,716 --> 00:24:55,756 Speaker 2: if we think about it, there is a world of 405 00:24:55,796 --> 00:25:02,036 Speaker 2: difference between stress and disappointment. Stress and that knowing knowing 406 00:25:02,156 --> 00:25:05,596 Speaker 2: feeling of I'm in the wrong job, the wrong career, 407 00:25:05,836 --> 00:25:11,636 Speaker 2: or this relationship isn't working out. Stress and exhaustion burnout. 408 00:25:11,836 --> 00:25:16,876 Speaker 2: If you label your experience as stress, it's a very 409 00:25:17,276 --> 00:25:23,396 Speaker 2: diffuse label. It's very murky, and your body. Your psychology 410 00:25:23,436 --> 00:25:25,996 Speaker 2: doesn't really know what to do with that. It's almost 411 00:25:26,036 --> 00:25:29,556 Speaker 2: like being in that boat and you think that there 412 00:25:29,636 --> 00:25:32,276 Speaker 2: might be something on the horizon that you've got to 413 00:25:32,316 --> 00:25:34,276 Speaker 2: pay attention to, but you've got no idea what it is. 414 00:25:34,516 --> 00:25:37,196 Speaker 2: But when you start saying to yourself, what are to 415 00:25:37,356 --> 00:25:39,956 Speaker 2: other options? I'm calling this thing stress? But what else 416 00:25:40,076 --> 00:25:44,196 Speaker 2: could it be? Oh it's disappointment, Oh it's feeling unsupported. 417 00:25:44,516 --> 00:25:47,196 Speaker 2: What it starts to do is it starts to activate 418 00:25:47,676 --> 00:25:51,796 Speaker 2: the readiness potential in us as human beings, which starts saying, 419 00:25:52,196 --> 00:25:54,916 Speaker 2: what do I need to do in relation to this? 420 00:25:55,396 --> 00:25:58,036 Speaker 2: And so there's enormous power in being able to label 421 00:25:58,076 --> 00:26:01,156 Speaker 2: this emotion accurately because it helps us to understand both 422 00:26:01,156 --> 00:26:04,996 Speaker 2: the cause of the emotion as well as the steps 423 00:26:05,036 --> 00:26:08,596 Speaker 2: that we might need to take in order to process 424 00:26:08,636 --> 00:26:11,196 Speaker 2: that emotion effectively. And we know, for instance, that even 425 00:26:11,196 --> 00:26:16,676 Speaker 2: in young children, this capacity is profoundly, profoundly important. A 426 00:26:16,716 --> 00:26:22,196 Speaker 2: sixteen year old who is encouraged by a peer to, oh, 427 00:26:22,316 --> 00:26:24,676 Speaker 2: let's let the air out of the principal's car tires. 428 00:26:25,316 --> 00:26:28,036 Speaker 2: If that sixteen year old is able to say, on 429 00:26:28,076 --> 00:26:33,116 Speaker 2: the one hand, I feel excited and tempted but actually, 430 00:26:33,236 --> 00:26:39,756 Speaker 2: deeper down there's a sense of disquiet, trepidation. This doesn't 431 00:26:39,756 --> 00:26:42,116 Speaker 2: feel right. That is a child who's going to be 432 00:26:42,156 --> 00:26:45,196 Speaker 2: able to delay gratification, who's going to be able to 433 00:26:45,276 --> 00:26:48,676 Speaker 2: focus more on their moral compass, their values and their 434 00:26:48,716 --> 00:26:52,156 Speaker 2: goals and their character over time. So it sounds like 435 00:26:52,196 --> 00:26:55,076 Speaker 2: such a subtle skill. When someone says, oh, when you 436 00:26:55,196 --> 00:26:58,916 Speaker 2: experience something, don't use just the first broad brushstroke label 437 00:26:59,036 --> 00:27:01,756 Speaker 2: label it more accurately, it feels like, oh, okay, is 438 00:27:01,796 --> 00:27:05,596 Speaker 2: that what you've got to offer? But it is just 439 00:27:06,316 --> 00:27:08,756 Speaker 2: extraordinary in terms of how important it is. 440 00:27:09,116 --> 00:27:11,076 Speaker 1: So when we think about these emotions as distinct, when 441 00:27:11,116 --> 00:27:13,076 Speaker 1: we kind of label them, then we can start in 442 00:27:13,156 --> 00:27:15,836 Speaker 1: on another process, which is to start using our emotions 443 00:27:15,956 --> 00:27:18,876 Speaker 1: not as this kind of horrible sensation, but really as 444 00:27:18,996 --> 00:27:20,916 Speaker 1: data for what we can do as the next step, 445 00:27:20,996 --> 00:27:22,996 Speaker 1: you know, So talk about some strategies we can use 446 00:27:23,036 --> 00:27:23,396 Speaker 1: to do this. 447 00:27:23,916 --> 00:27:26,396 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's so important. The way that I think about 448 00:27:26,436 --> 00:27:30,636 Speaker 2: emotions is our emotions are data. So emotions again contain 449 00:27:30,716 --> 00:27:32,916 Speaker 2: signposts to the things that we care about, but our 450 00:27:32,956 --> 00:27:37,116 Speaker 2: emotions aren't directives. I can show up to my son's 451 00:27:37,276 --> 00:27:40,556 Speaker 2: frustration with his baby sister, I can see it. I 452 00:27:40,596 --> 00:27:44,156 Speaker 2: can hold space for it. I can be accepting of it. 453 00:27:44,716 --> 00:27:47,756 Speaker 2: But it doesn't mean that I'm endorsing his idea that 454 00:27:47,796 --> 00:27:49,716 Speaker 2: he gets to give away to the first stranger that 455 00:27:49,756 --> 00:27:54,076 Speaker 2: he sees in a shopping mall. Okay, our emotions are data, 456 00:27:54,196 --> 00:27:58,276 Speaker 2: not directives. In other words, we own our emotions. They 457 00:27:58,316 --> 00:28:01,996 Speaker 2: don't own us. And so another skill that becomes really 458 00:28:02,036 --> 00:28:06,156 Speaker 2: important in helping us to not push aside the difficulty emotions, 459 00:28:06,196 --> 00:28:10,596 Speaker 2: not brute on them, but develop healthy space with our 460 00:28:10,716 --> 00:28:14,836 Speaker 2: emotions is if we just think about the language again 461 00:28:15,036 --> 00:28:18,516 Speaker 2: of how we often describe emotions. We often say things 462 00:28:18,556 --> 00:28:24,716 Speaker 2: like I am sad, I am angry, I am frustrated, 463 00:28:24,876 --> 00:28:27,556 Speaker 2: I am being undermined. Now, if you just think about 464 00:28:28,076 --> 00:28:32,556 Speaker 2: this language, words matter. So when you say I am, 465 00:28:33,116 --> 00:28:37,996 Speaker 2: it's pretty much as if you are the emotion. I 466 00:28:38,196 --> 00:28:42,196 Speaker 2: am all of me, one hundred percent of me is 467 00:28:42,276 --> 00:28:45,356 Speaker 2: the emotion. When you do this, there's no space for 468 00:28:45,436 --> 00:28:49,436 Speaker 2: anything else. There's no space for wisdom, there's no space 469 00:28:49,476 --> 00:28:53,676 Speaker 2: for intention. Victor Frankel talks about this sentiment of between 470 00:28:53,676 --> 00:28:56,716 Speaker 2: stimulus and response, there is a space, and in that 471 00:28:56,796 --> 00:28:59,236 Speaker 2: space is our power to choose, and in that choice 472 00:28:59,316 --> 00:29:01,796 Speaker 2: lies our growth and our freedom. So when we are 473 00:29:01,916 --> 00:29:04,676 Speaker 2: hooked by a difficulty motion, when we feel triggered by it, 474 00:29:04,716 --> 00:29:07,716 Speaker 2: there is no space. We just feel something and we respond. 475 00:29:08,236 --> 00:29:10,396 Speaker 2: You know someone that I love starting in on the finances, 476 00:29:10,436 --> 00:29:12,436 Speaker 2: I'm going to leave the root because I feel alien aated. 477 00:29:12,516 --> 00:29:14,676 Speaker 2: So we hooked. And what we're trying to do when 478 00:29:14,676 --> 00:29:18,236 Speaker 2: we being emotionally agile is to cultivate healthy space between 479 00:29:18,676 --> 00:29:21,116 Speaker 2: us and our emotions, so that we own the emotions 480 00:29:21,196 --> 00:29:23,316 Speaker 2: they don't own us. And one of the ways we 481 00:29:23,356 --> 00:29:25,916 Speaker 2: can start doing this is by recognizing again that when 482 00:29:25,916 --> 00:29:29,436 Speaker 2: we say I am there's no space. You are literally 483 00:29:29,436 --> 00:29:33,356 Speaker 2: defining yourself by the emotion, and so what's being crowded 484 00:29:33,436 --> 00:29:38,236 Speaker 2: out There are the other parts of you that exist 485 00:29:38,356 --> 00:29:43,036 Speaker 2: in every single one of us. Our wisdom, our intention, 486 00:29:43,396 --> 00:29:48,196 Speaker 2: our values, who we want to be, are breathing, our connectedness. 487 00:29:48,236 --> 00:29:51,796 Speaker 2: There's so much centeredness in every single one of us. 488 00:29:52,436 --> 00:29:55,476 Speaker 2: And so the way we can start creating the space 489 00:29:55,596 --> 00:29:59,836 Speaker 2: is by noticing the thoughts or the emotions or the 490 00:29:59,876 --> 00:30:04,116 Speaker 2: stories for what they are. They are thoughts, emotions and stories. 491 00:30:04,116 --> 00:30:08,116 Speaker 2: They're not fact. So an example, i am sad, I'm 492 00:30:08,196 --> 00:30:12,596 Speaker 2: noticing that I'm feeling sad. I'm being undermined. I'm noticing 493 00:30:12,636 --> 00:30:15,436 Speaker 2: that this is my thought that I'm being undermined. I'm 494 00:30:15,436 --> 00:30:18,396 Speaker 2: not good enough, there's no point in even trying. I'm 495 00:30:18,476 --> 00:30:21,396 Speaker 2: noticing that this is my I'm not good enough story. 496 00:30:21,676 --> 00:30:26,076 Speaker 2: When you do this, you aren't ignoring your difficult experience, 497 00:30:26,196 --> 00:30:31,076 Speaker 2: but you're creating space in it. And a beautiful metaphor 498 00:30:31,196 --> 00:30:33,356 Speaker 2: that I think when I think about this skill, is 499 00:30:33,356 --> 00:30:37,476 Speaker 2: that when you say I am, it's almost like you 500 00:30:38,116 --> 00:30:42,356 Speaker 2: are the emotion, and the emotion is a cloud, and 501 00:30:42,396 --> 00:30:46,196 Speaker 2: you've become the cloud. I am sad. But when you 502 00:30:46,276 --> 00:30:49,796 Speaker 2: instead create space between you and the emotion, I'm noticing 503 00:30:49,836 --> 00:30:53,996 Speaker 2: that I'm feeling sad. There's literally a kind of distance 504 00:30:54,076 --> 00:30:58,316 Speaker 2: that's created in language. What happens then, is you ont 505 00:30:58,356 --> 00:31:02,236 Speaker 2: the cloud any longer? You are the sky. You are 506 00:31:02,276 --> 00:31:05,116 Speaker 2: the sky. Every single one of us is beautiful and 507 00:31:05,236 --> 00:31:10,436 Speaker 2: capacious enough to have all of our difficulty more and 508 00:31:10,516 --> 00:31:12,516 Speaker 2: still choose who we want to be in the moment. 509 00:31:13,476 --> 00:31:16,956 Speaker 2: You are not the cloud. You are the sky. 510 00:31:18,156 --> 00:31:20,596 Speaker 1: But it's not enough to label our emotions and change 511 00:31:20,596 --> 00:31:24,316 Speaker 1: how we talk about them. True emotional agility requires getting 512 00:31:24,316 --> 00:31:27,396 Speaker 1: curious about what our emotions are telling us and where 513 00:31:27,436 --> 00:31:31,596 Speaker 1: they're steering us, and that kind of agility requires something more. 514 00:31:32,196 --> 00:31:34,956 Speaker 1: In the words of one of my favorite seventies bands, Parliament, 515 00:31:35,476 --> 00:31:39,436 Speaker 1: we got to have that funk. You'll hear more about 516 00:31:39,436 --> 00:31:42,076 Speaker 1: the funk when the Happiness lab returns in a moment. 517 00:32:03,196 --> 00:32:06,316 Speaker 1: Psychologist Susan David argues that the first step in reacting 518 00:32:06,356 --> 00:32:09,556 Speaker 1: effectively to our negative emotions is no a whigh specific 519 00:32:09,636 --> 00:32:12,676 Speaker 1: emotion we're dealing with. We need to distinguish a catch 520 00:32:12,716 --> 00:32:16,676 Speaker 1: all sensation like stress for more specific feelings like exhaustion 521 00:32:16,836 --> 00:32:20,276 Speaker 1: or disappointment. But once we know what emotion we're dealing with, 522 00:32:20,596 --> 00:32:23,716 Speaker 1: we also need to figure out what it's saying to us, or, 523 00:32:23,716 --> 00:32:26,956 Speaker 1: as Susan puts it, we need to ask what's the funk? 524 00:32:27,876 --> 00:32:30,876 Speaker 2: I love this In my book, I describe this idea 525 00:32:30,916 --> 00:32:34,916 Speaker 2: of what the funk and what the funk like? WTF 526 00:32:35,196 --> 00:32:38,516 Speaker 2: is not a description of the more explicit label. It's 527 00:32:38,516 --> 00:32:42,276 Speaker 2: basically saying, what is the function of the emotion, what 528 00:32:42,396 --> 00:32:45,996 Speaker 2: the funk? You know, what the funk is my grief signaling, 529 00:32:46,076 --> 00:32:49,036 Speaker 2: What the funk is my loneliness signaling. And so what 530 00:32:49,076 --> 00:32:51,356 Speaker 2: we're starting to do when we ask ourselves what the 531 00:32:51,356 --> 00:32:55,916 Speaker 2: funk is? We are starting to really create this beautiful 532 00:32:56,036 --> 00:33:00,156 Speaker 2: space between us and the emotion. So instead of feeling 533 00:33:00,196 --> 00:33:04,436 Speaker 2: that the emotion owns us, that it's driving us, that 534 00:33:04,956 --> 00:33:08,596 Speaker 2: we triggered by it, that it's writing our story, what 535 00:33:08,596 --> 00:33:10,676 Speaker 2: we're starting to do is we're starting to use the 536 00:33:10,756 --> 00:33:13,436 Speaker 2: emotion in the way that it was intended, which is 537 00:33:13,476 --> 00:33:16,836 Speaker 2: to help us to adapt. And So what the funk 538 00:33:17,196 --> 00:33:22,916 Speaker 2: is a lovely short form for what is the function? 539 00:33:23,596 --> 00:33:26,276 Speaker 2: What is the emotion trying to tell me about my 540 00:33:26,476 --> 00:33:32,676 Speaker 2: needs or my values? When I am worried about a 541 00:33:32,756 --> 00:33:36,676 Speaker 2: situation in the workplace, On the face of it, I 542 00:33:36,756 --> 00:33:39,276 Speaker 2: might say, Okay, well, I'm just feeling worried or I'm 543 00:33:39,276 --> 00:33:42,836 Speaker 2: just feeling angry. But when we start saying what the funk, 544 00:33:43,396 --> 00:33:46,196 Speaker 2: it may be that that worry is signaling that we 545 00:33:46,316 --> 00:33:50,596 Speaker 2: really care about quality, or we really care about our clients, 546 00:33:50,716 --> 00:33:53,196 Speaker 2: and that we are concerned that the way we are 547 00:33:53,236 --> 00:33:58,236 Speaker 2: moving forward is actually not a good direction. So when 548 00:33:58,276 --> 00:34:01,116 Speaker 2: we start asking ourselves what the funk, whether that's in 549 00:34:01,156 --> 00:34:04,516 Speaker 2: a personal context or in a broader context, we starting 550 00:34:04,596 --> 00:34:07,316 Speaker 2: to say, what is this emotion trying to signal about 551 00:34:07,356 --> 00:34:09,396 Speaker 2: my values or my needs? The example that I gave 552 00:34:09,436 --> 00:34:13,996 Speaker 2: earlier which is, if I am feeling lonely, the function 553 00:34:14,156 --> 00:34:16,756 Speaker 2: of that loneliness is to say that I need more 554 00:34:16,756 --> 00:34:21,236 Speaker 2: intimacy and connection. And so you might say, well, I 555 00:34:21,276 --> 00:34:24,316 Speaker 2: am on zoom calls every day and I see people 556 00:34:24,516 --> 00:34:26,836 Speaker 2: all around me. But we know that we can be 557 00:34:26,916 --> 00:34:30,956 Speaker 2: lonely in a crowd. And so what the function of 558 00:34:31,116 --> 00:34:35,956 Speaker 2: loneliness might be saying, you know, you pass your spouse 559 00:34:36,276 --> 00:34:39,236 Speaker 2: in the kitchen as you both getting a coffee, and 560 00:34:39,276 --> 00:34:41,636 Speaker 2: you both on your phones, and you barely look up 561 00:34:41,676 --> 00:34:44,516 Speaker 2: at one another. And yes, you might be in a 562 00:34:44,556 --> 00:34:47,156 Speaker 2: house full of people, but you still feel lonely. And 563 00:34:47,196 --> 00:34:50,716 Speaker 2: the function of that loneliness is to help you to 564 00:34:51,236 --> 00:34:54,596 Speaker 2: reach out in the direction of the need or the value, 565 00:34:54,836 --> 00:34:59,356 Speaker 2: and so you can then start making small changes, which is, 566 00:34:59,756 --> 00:35:01,756 Speaker 2: you know, in this particular example, it might be that 567 00:35:01,796 --> 00:35:08,116 Speaker 2: there's this moment of opportunity that you have in your 568 00:35:08,196 --> 00:35:12,756 Speaker 2: day where you can move in the direction of your 569 00:35:12,796 --> 00:35:15,716 Speaker 2: needs or your values. So it might be that you 570 00:35:16,556 --> 00:35:18,956 Speaker 2: genuinely are giving that person a hug at the end 571 00:35:18,956 --> 00:35:22,196 Speaker 2: of the day and crafting a new moment of connection. 572 00:35:22,556 --> 00:35:24,876 Speaker 2: And we can do this with any of our emotions 573 00:35:24,916 --> 00:35:29,116 Speaker 2: or emotional experiences where we are learning from them. A 574 00:35:29,116 --> 00:35:32,036 Speaker 2: good way actually of thinking about this is, as people 575 00:35:32,076 --> 00:35:35,196 Speaker 2: are listening to this podcast, if I asked you, on 576 00:35:35,236 --> 00:35:37,916 Speaker 2: a blank piece of paper to just think about some 577 00:35:38,036 --> 00:35:43,156 Speaker 2: emotion words that you've been experiencing. So I've been feeling 578 00:35:43,556 --> 00:35:49,396 Speaker 2: X whatever that is for you, regret or sadness or anxiety, 579 00:35:49,436 --> 00:35:52,236 Speaker 2: whatever that is. So you've got that on that piece 580 00:35:52,236 --> 00:35:56,156 Speaker 2: of paper. Now, in a world that focuses on forced 581 00:35:56,476 --> 00:35:59,556 Speaker 2: false positivity, you might imagine that I'm going to ask 582 00:35:59,596 --> 00:36:01,796 Speaker 2: you to now turn the piece of paper over and 583 00:36:01,836 --> 00:36:04,996 Speaker 2: write about, well, what you should be grateful for or 584 00:36:05,036 --> 00:36:07,996 Speaker 2: why you should be happy. But actually what I would 585 00:36:08,036 --> 00:36:11,156 Speaker 2: ask you to do is something quite different, which is 586 00:36:11,756 --> 00:36:14,956 Speaker 2: to turn the piece of paper over and ask yourself, 587 00:36:15,556 --> 00:36:20,796 Speaker 2: what is that emotion signaling about your needs or your values? 588 00:36:21,196 --> 00:36:24,996 Speaker 2: And even if that emotion has actually been a joyous emotion, 589 00:36:25,836 --> 00:36:28,516 Speaker 2: you know, if you of the past couple of months 590 00:36:28,596 --> 00:36:33,116 Speaker 2: have experienced a lot more joy than might be typical, 591 00:36:33,636 --> 00:36:38,076 Speaker 2: you might be asking yourself, what is this joy signaling 592 00:36:38,076 --> 00:36:42,996 Speaker 2: about my needs? It may be that you have reconnected 593 00:36:43,156 --> 00:36:48,076 Speaker 2: with creativity or with particular people, and so again, even 594 00:36:48,156 --> 00:36:52,396 Speaker 2: that beautiful experience of joy is signposting that this thing 595 00:36:52,476 --> 00:36:55,796 Speaker 2: is important to you, and you can keep moving towards it, 596 00:36:55,916 --> 00:37:01,916 Speaker 2: and a reminder to keep threading this experience, this quality 597 00:37:02,316 --> 00:37:03,116 Speaker 2: through your life. 598 00:37:03,556 --> 00:37:05,996 Speaker 1: And so this is so important that our emotions can 599 00:37:06,116 --> 00:37:08,676 Speaker 1: have this function of signaling our values, because I think, 600 00:37:09,276 --> 00:37:11,876 Speaker 1: just like our thoughts and just like our emotions, sometimes 601 00:37:11,916 --> 00:37:13,796 Speaker 1: our values are the kind of thing that we can't 602 00:37:13,796 --> 00:37:16,276 Speaker 1: totally see. You know, we're sort of blind to which 603 00:37:16,356 --> 00:37:19,236 Speaker 1: values we're living out, and you talk about cases where 604 00:37:19,236 --> 00:37:21,876 Speaker 1: emotions can sometimes tell us that we're living out the 605 00:37:21,956 --> 00:37:24,636 Speaker 1: wrong kinds of values. You have this lovely phrase in 606 00:37:24,676 --> 00:37:27,836 Speaker 1: your book called the idea we're living out dead people's goals. 607 00:37:28,156 --> 00:37:29,796 Speaker 1: You know, what do you mean here? And how can 608 00:37:29,836 --> 00:37:32,236 Speaker 1: emotions be so helpful in this in this regard? 609 00:37:32,796 --> 00:37:35,356 Speaker 2: So the idea with what I described with dead people's 610 00:37:35,356 --> 00:37:38,036 Speaker 2: goals is just often people will say things like I 611 00:37:38,076 --> 00:37:40,076 Speaker 2: don't want to be stressed, I don't want my heart 612 00:37:40,076 --> 00:37:44,436 Speaker 2: to be broken, I don't want this project to fail. 613 00:37:44,836 --> 00:37:48,756 Speaker 2: And what I mean by dead people's goals is the 614 00:37:49,036 --> 00:37:52,036 Speaker 2: only people, and I say this, you know facetiously, is 615 00:37:52,116 --> 00:37:54,956 Speaker 2: that the only people who don't ever have their hearts broken, 616 00:37:55,676 --> 00:38:00,756 Speaker 2: who never experience stress or loss or disappointment, are dead. 617 00:38:01,316 --> 00:38:05,556 Speaker 2: You know, discomfort is the price of admission to a 618 00:38:05,596 --> 00:38:08,796 Speaker 2: meaningful life. We don't get to leave the world a 619 00:38:08,836 --> 00:38:12,676 Speaker 2: better place, or raise a family, or build a meaningful 620 00:38:12,716 --> 00:38:18,276 Speaker 2: career without stress and discomfort. So in that context, you know, 621 00:38:18,396 --> 00:38:20,796 Speaker 2: when I say discomfort is the price of admission to 622 00:38:20,836 --> 00:38:25,236 Speaker 2: a meaningful life, what that then says is it becomes 623 00:38:25,316 --> 00:38:30,076 Speaker 2: really important for our emotional capacity that we develop the 624 00:38:30,396 --> 00:38:35,596 Speaker 2: ability to be with and learn from discomfort, because those 625 00:38:35,676 --> 00:38:39,276 Speaker 2: uncomfortable emotions, again are signaling things that we care about. 626 00:38:39,716 --> 00:38:46,396 Speaker 2: And oftentimes when people talk about values, it feels very abstract. 627 00:38:46,436 --> 00:38:48,276 Speaker 2: It feels like the kinds of things that people put 628 00:38:48,276 --> 00:38:52,196 Speaker 2: on walls and businesses, and feels very distant from us. 629 00:38:52,716 --> 00:38:54,916 Speaker 2: The way that I think of values are that they're 630 00:38:54,916 --> 00:38:58,676 Speaker 2: the heartbeat of your why. They are things that at 631 00:38:58,876 --> 00:39:02,316 Speaker 2: core matter to you, and they're not abstract. There are 632 00:39:02,476 --> 00:39:06,676 Speaker 2: qualities of action. They're qualities of action. So every single 633 00:39:06,756 --> 00:39:12,156 Speaker 2: day life is our asking you, is asking me, is 634 00:39:12,196 --> 00:39:15,276 Speaker 2: saying who do you want to be today? Every day 635 00:39:15,836 --> 00:39:23,596 Speaker 2: and every day we have opportunities to either move towards 636 00:39:23,676 --> 00:39:27,876 Speaker 2: our values or away from our values. If we value health, 637 00:39:28,396 --> 00:39:32,476 Speaker 2: are we moving towards the running shoes or away from 638 00:39:32,516 --> 00:39:39,196 Speaker 2: them if we value relationship, are we moving towards the 639 00:39:39,316 --> 00:39:44,236 Speaker 2: uncomfortable conversation because we know that it's important to our relationship, 640 00:39:45,116 --> 00:39:48,036 Speaker 2: or are we moving away from it because I just 641 00:39:48,516 --> 00:39:50,996 Speaker 2: can't be bothered to go there, even though we know 642 00:39:51,196 --> 00:39:54,236 Speaker 2: at its core that that leads to disengagement and dissolution. 643 00:39:54,796 --> 00:40:00,156 Speaker 2: So every day we have these opportunities to move towards 644 00:40:00,156 --> 00:40:06,156 Speaker 2: our values. We stay upright on a bicycle by cycling, 645 00:40:06,396 --> 00:40:09,596 Speaker 2: and we stay upright as people with a lives that 646 00:40:09,636 --> 00:40:13,916 Speaker 2: we want to be living by moving actively towards the 647 00:40:13,956 --> 00:40:16,556 Speaker 2: things that we care about. And so then often people 648 00:40:16,556 --> 00:40:18,716 Speaker 2: will say things like, well, how do I work out 649 00:40:18,756 --> 00:40:22,236 Speaker 2: what my values are? You know, how do I start 650 00:40:22,276 --> 00:40:24,756 Speaker 2: discerning what my values are? And it's a really important 651 00:40:24,836 --> 00:40:28,676 Speaker 2: question because again it's not the kind of conversation that 652 00:40:28,716 --> 00:40:31,956 Speaker 2: we often have in our schools or in our workplaces, 653 00:40:32,396 --> 00:40:37,316 Speaker 2: and that becomes really challenging. I'm sure that in the 654 00:40:37,356 --> 00:40:40,636 Speaker 2: podcast you've explored things like social contagion, where we know 655 00:40:40,756 --> 00:40:43,556 Speaker 2: that people can start picking up behaviors of other people. 656 00:40:43,756 --> 00:40:45,996 Speaker 2: Your next door neighbor drives a particular car, We want 657 00:40:46,036 --> 00:40:48,316 Speaker 2: to drive that car, and sometimes we don't even know 658 00:40:48,356 --> 00:40:51,716 Speaker 2: we're doing it. We know from large scale epidemiological studies 659 00:40:51,716 --> 00:40:56,116 Speaker 2: that your chances of getting divorced increase if people in 660 00:40:56,156 --> 00:40:58,876 Speaker 2: your social network that you don't even know get divorced, 661 00:40:58,876 --> 00:41:01,956 Speaker 2: and we saw this in the pandemic, how people catch 662 00:41:01,996 --> 00:41:05,836 Speaker 2: other people's behaviors. So what can start happening is, over time, 663 00:41:06,596 --> 00:41:10,196 Speaker 2: we can move more and more and more away from 664 00:41:10,276 --> 00:41:12,756 Speaker 2: the things that matter to us, and so it becomes 665 00:41:12,836 --> 00:41:17,516 Speaker 2: really important for us to just sometimes take a little 666 00:41:17,516 --> 00:41:21,636 Speaker 2: bit of time to affirm our values. There's been some 667 00:41:21,836 --> 00:41:24,516 Speaker 2: work that's just ask people to just sit down for 668 00:41:24,596 --> 00:41:29,556 Speaker 2: ten minutes and ask them to remind themselves what's important 669 00:41:29,636 --> 00:41:33,156 Speaker 2: to them and their relationship, or what's important to them 670 00:41:33,356 --> 00:41:36,636 Speaker 2: in what they're studying or their careers. And that type 671 00:41:36,636 --> 00:41:41,516 Speaker 2: of values affirmation is very strong and very protective in 672 00:41:41,636 --> 00:41:46,076 Speaker 2: terms of enabling people to ward off that social contagion. 673 00:41:46,236 --> 00:41:49,476 Speaker 2: But as you speak to Laurie, one of the core 674 00:41:49,516 --> 00:41:52,916 Speaker 2: ways that we can start connecting with our values is 675 00:41:53,076 --> 00:41:57,756 Speaker 2: by paying attention to the heartbeat that comes through our 676 00:41:57,756 --> 00:42:03,236 Speaker 2: difficulty emotions. Because often our difficulty emotions are signposting. They're 677 00:42:03,316 --> 00:42:04,996 Speaker 2: signposting things that matter. 678 00:42:04,836 --> 00:42:06,996 Speaker 1: To us, and so you know, this brings us to 679 00:42:07,276 --> 00:42:09,356 Speaker 1: a kind of irony rate in that running away away 680 00:42:09,436 --> 00:42:12,196 Speaker 1: from our negative emotions, trying to avoid them, you know, 681 00:42:12,236 --> 00:42:14,956 Speaker 1: trying to bottle them up. We're like missing out on 682 00:42:14,996 --> 00:42:18,516 Speaker 1: this super important signpost, this like lighthouse, that's signaling like, hey, 683 00:42:18,556 --> 00:42:20,756 Speaker 1: your values over here, and you're not meeting it right. 684 00:42:20,796 --> 00:42:23,276 Speaker 1: You know, you might need to stretch your behavior. Do 685 00:42:23,316 --> 00:42:26,476 Speaker 1: you think through this idea really welcoming our inner experiences, 686 00:42:26,516 --> 00:42:29,356 Speaker 1: you know, like breathing into them, accepting them with curiosity, 687 00:42:29,516 --> 00:42:30,636 Speaker 1: you know, is that going to set us on a 688 00:42:30,716 --> 00:42:32,876 Speaker 1: new course that will allow us to flourish a little 689 00:42:32,876 --> 00:42:33,236 Speaker 1: bit more. 690 00:42:33,756 --> 00:42:36,956 Speaker 2: Absolutely, if we look just at the notion of acceptance 691 00:42:36,996 --> 00:42:40,916 Speaker 2: of emotions, we know that acceptance of emotions as opposed 692 00:42:40,956 --> 00:42:45,556 Speaker 2: to pushing them aside or brooding on them is a 693 00:42:45,916 --> 00:42:51,716 Speaker 2: cornerstone to well being, is a cornerstone to resilience, because 694 00:42:51,756 --> 00:42:55,236 Speaker 2: now you're actually developing skills to help you to deal 695 00:42:55,276 --> 00:42:59,396 Speaker 2: with the world as it is, which is this broken 696 00:43:00,116 --> 00:43:04,196 Speaker 2: world where heartbreak and loss hold hands with one another. 697 00:43:04,516 --> 00:43:10,156 Speaker 2: And so these skills that I'm talking to our truly 698 00:43:10,556 --> 00:43:16,196 Speaker 2: foundational skills in our personal relationships, in our relationship with self, 699 00:43:16,556 --> 00:43:20,436 Speaker 2: and also even in our workplaces, in our communities, we 700 00:43:20,476 --> 00:43:23,516 Speaker 2: can apply these exact same kinds of skills when we 701 00:43:23,636 --> 00:43:26,916 Speaker 2: having difficult conversations with our children. Often we try to 702 00:43:26,956 --> 00:43:30,236 Speaker 2: convert them, you know, just be happy. But if we 703 00:43:30,276 --> 00:43:34,316 Speaker 2: can hold space for those difficulty emotions and we can 704 00:43:34,356 --> 00:43:36,196 Speaker 2: help them to label them, and we can help them 705 00:43:36,236 --> 00:43:40,756 Speaker 2: to understand. Oh, you upset with Jack? Because friendship is 706 00:43:40,796 --> 00:43:43,996 Speaker 2: important to you, How do you want to be as 707 00:43:44,036 --> 00:43:47,316 Speaker 2: a friend? What does friendship look like? What you're now 708 00:43:47,396 --> 00:43:50,036 Speaker 2: doing is you're helping the child to develop their own 709 00:43:50,276 --> 00:43:54,836 Speaker 2: moral compass and sense of character. And this is extraordinarily 710 00:43:54,876 --> 00:44:00,556 Speaker 2: important because when the world is changing around us, being 711 00:44:00,676 --> 00:44:08,276 Speaker 2: grounded in ourselves with levels of courage, with levels of curiosity, 712 00:44:08,476 --> 00:44:13,236 Speaker 2: with hession, and with the willingness to take values connected 713 00:44:13,276 --> 00:44:19,556 Speaker 2: steps is the only way forward in a fregile, beautiful world. 714 00:44:20,396 --> 00:44:22,436 Speaker 1: I was haunted by a phrase that Susan used a 715 00:44:22,476 --> 00:44:26,516 Speaker 1: few times during our conversation. She noted that discomfort is 716 00:44:26,516 --> 00:44:29,916 Speaker 1: the price of admission for a meaningful life. We often 717 00:44:29,996 --> 00:44:32,356 Speaker 1: run away from things we think will bring us discomfort, 718 00:44:32,876 --> 00:44:36,796 Speaker 1: all the potential failure, humiliation, and rejection of life. But 719 00:44:36,836 --> 00:44:40,116 Speaker 1: by running away, by not even trying, we deny ourselves 720 00:44:40,196 --> 00:44:43,076 Speaker 1: the opportunity to win, to be a success, and to 721 00:44:43,156 --> 00:44:46,916 Speaker 1: be accepted. Susan's quote really resonated with me because I 722 00:44:46,996 --> 00:44:50,036 Speaker 1: definitely struggle with this very issue. But I'm hopeful that 723 00:44:50,076 --> 00:44:52,716 Speaker 1: the Happiness Lab can help us learn how to deal 724 00:44:52,716 --> 00:44:55,876 Speaker 1: with our negative emotions without all the fear, so that 725 00:44:55,876 --> 00:44:57,956 Speaker 1: they won't hold us back from doing all the things 726 00:44:57,956 --> 00:45:00,716 Speaker 1: that we will give our lives more happiness and more meaning. 727 00:45:06,916 --> 00:45:09,796 Speaker 1: The Happiness Lab is co written and produced by Ryan Dilley, 728 00:45:10,036 --> 00:45:13,916 Speaker 1: Emily Anne Vaughan, and Courtney Goorino. Our original music was 729 00:45:13,956 --> 00:45:17,796 Speaker 1: composed by Zachary Silver, with additional scoring, mixing, and mastering 730 00:45:17,876 --> 00:45:21,556 Speaker 1: by Evan Viola. Special thanks to me LaBelle, Heather Fain, 731 00:45:21,876 --> 00:45:26,476 Speaker 1: John Schnarz, Carli Miglioroi, Christina Sullivan, Brandt Haynes, Maggie Taylor, 732 00:45:26,716 --> 00:45:31,636 Speaker 1: Eric Sandler, Nicol Morano, Royston Preserve, Jacob Weisberg, and my agent, 733 00:45:31,756 --> 00:45:34,916 Speaker 1: Ben Davis. The Happiness Lab is brought to you by 734 00:45:34,916 --> 00:45:38,836 Speaker 1: Pushkin Industries and me Doctor Laurie Santos. To find more 735 00:45:38,876 --> 00:45:43,036 Speaker 1: Pushkin podcasts, listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or 736 00:45:43,036 --> 00:45:49,516 Speaker 1: wherever you listen to your podcasts.