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Speaker 1: Hi, this is Chase Utley and this is the Phillies Show.

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Speaker 1: By everybody. Welcome to the Phillies Show with Ruben Tomorrow, Junior,

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Speaker 1: Jim Salisbury. I'm Todd Zelecki. We are getting together today

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Speaker 1: to get some reaction with the JT. Real Muto news

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Speaker 1: that he is having meniscous repair surgery. He is going

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Speaker 1: to miss four weeks. Huge blow for the Phillies. There's

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Speaker 1: no if sands or butts about it. He is the

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Speaker 1: backbone of this team, you know, players, his teammates talk

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Speaker 1: about it all the time. The drop off behind real

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Speaker 1: Muto is significant. But my initial take on this when

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Speaker 1: I listened to Dave Dombrowski talk yesterday in Boston, is

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Speaker 1: this Maybe this is the blessing in this. You guys

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Speaker 1: might think I'm crazy, but I say that because of

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Speaker 1: this four weeks, it could have been a lot longer.

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Speaker 1: It could have been a lot worse. If you nip

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Speaker 1: this in the bud now, you don't have something pop

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Speaker 1: up where he's playing through pain the next couple months. Also,

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Speaker 1: now it's September sixth, Holy crap, I can't play on

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Speaker 1: my knee anymore. I gotta get surgery or or he's

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Speaker 1: just got a big drop in production the rest of

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Speaker 1: the way, and he's not JT Real mutto in the

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Speaker 1: in the postseason. So that's my opinion, blessing in disguise. Jim,

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Speaker 1: you wrote something today was I was curious about you

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Speaker 1: talked with Eric Kratz a story at phl Y and

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Speaker 1: he had something similar. So did what did Eric Kratz

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Speaker 1: have to say about this for himself and for JT's injury?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and I agree with you. I know you're saying

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Speaker 2: the timing is a blessing because you have enough season left.

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Speaker 2: If this was, you know, August thirty and all of

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Speaker 2: a sudden it was becoming debilitating and he had to

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Speaker 2: be cut on, you're gonna lose him for the postseason.

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Speaker 2: So the timing is good because he's gonna have plenty

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Speaker 2: of time to recover, come back, rehab, get hot, be

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Speaker 2: himself again. But yeah, when you know I heard you know,

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Speaker 2: Real Mudo is gonna have this surgery to repair a

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Speaker 2: meniscus tear in his knee. I thought of Eric Kratz

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Speaker 2: in twenty thirteen, Ruben was the GM You were at

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Speaker 2: the game, I'm sure because it was in Milwaukee. Todd

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Speaker 2: I was at the game. Todd never missed a triple

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Speaker 2: to Milwaukee. The food is really good there. I heard

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Speaker 2: he's also a Milwaukee native. Mom's cooking as good anyway. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: I mean there was a night Kratz stepped on first

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Speaker 2: base awkwardly and four nights four days later, had surgery

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Speaker 2: to repair a meniscus tear in his knee. He had

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Speaker 2: some pain in the knee leading up to it, stepped

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Speaker 2: on the bag awkwardly and something went wrong, so he

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Speaker 2: was back. He had the surgery on June twelfth, and

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Speaker 2: he was back catching at Lehigh Valley on minor league

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Speaker 2: rehab on July eighth, less than one month. They were

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Speaker 2: conservative conservative with him, made him stay there for a

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Speaker 2: week or so, but he was back in the big

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Speaker 2: leagues in just just over five weeks and just got

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Speaker 2: some of his insights. He thinks JT's gonna feel great.

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Speaker 2: You know, he offered the disclaimers. You know, they have

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Speaker 2: to get in there see what's going on. He's not

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Speaker 2: a doctor. But if everything if there are no surprises

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Speaker 2: during the surgery rehab goes well, j Tacher come out

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Speaker 2: of this feeling great and picking up on Dave Dombrowski's

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Speaker 2: timeline of about a month. He thinks that's very realistic

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Speaker 2: to be back in about a month. Does that mean,

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Speaker 2: you know, twenty nine days? Does that mean thirty five days,

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Speaker 2: thirty eight day, that's all about a month. But I

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Speaker 2: think where we are in the season mid June, with

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Speaker 2: a nice cushion on the braves playing well, you have

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Speaker 2: some you know, legitimate options in backups in march On

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Speaker 2: and Stubbs. I think that it can be a quick rehab,

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Speaker 2: but it doesn't have to be a hasty we got

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Speaker 2: to get him back overnight rehab. They can do it

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Speaker 2: the right way and still get him back with a

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Speaker 2: lot of season. And Eric Kratz, a guy who caught

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Speaker 2: professionally for nineteen seasons in the majors for eleven seasons,

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Speaker 2: had a similar injury, believes that JT is going to

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Speaker 2: come back and be just fine. So I was really

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Speaker 2: curious to hear his insights, given that he played the

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Speaker 2: same position and had a very similar injury.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm going to put my manager hat on and

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Speaker 3: talk about this a little bit. And then GM had

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Speaker 3: on and I think that's one of the things that

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Speaker 3: you know, Rob Thompson talks about privately and publicly is injury.

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Speaker 3: That's what he's worried about the most. And uh and

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Speaker 3: and that was one of the big concerns. That was

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Speaker 3: the I think the original injury occurred when he slipped

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Speaker 3: in uh in the series against San Francisco. The weather

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Speaker 3: was terrible here in Philadelphia. We had a really really

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Speaker 3: bad stretch of weather in early May where there was

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Speaker 3: playing like seemingly, you know, in a rain downpour every

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Speaker 3: single game, and that's sort of where he originally heard it.

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Speaker 3: It sort of sort of bothered him for quite some time.

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Speaker 3: You know, as we've talked about, one of the toughest

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Speaker 3: guys in the world continues to play with it. And

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Speaker 3: but there was pretty significant drop off of his offense.

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Speaker 3: And I think it had a lot to do with

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Speaker 3: the fact that he was, you know, trying to nurse

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Speaker 3: nurse this thing through. So Uh, I don't disagree with you, Todd,

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Speaker 3: and that the timing of it is not bad. The

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Speaker 3: fact that it's not a major surgery. I've had surgery

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Speaker 3: the the meniscus between ninety two and ninety three doctor

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Speaker 3: Philip Morone, God bless him. Uh. He did my surgery

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Speaker 3: and actually did a nice job. I've never had knockwood.

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Speaker 3: I've never had an issue. Since the rehab was very quick.

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Speaker 3: I could have probably been on the field within weeks,

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Speaker 3: really believe it or not. And really what happens in

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Speaker 3: a muniscus tear is and where your knee starts to

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Speaker 3: get locked up and sore is the piece that tears

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Speaker 3: away or what have you. It sometimes doesn't fully tear

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Speaker 3: and it flips into your joint, so it doesn't allow

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Speaker 3: your your need to kind of work the way it

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Speaker 3: normally does, and so you have to snipe it and

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Speaker 3: clean it out. Depending on how much the tear is

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Speaker 3: and how significant it is. Hopefully it's probably going through

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Speaker 3: it right now or just already went through the surgery.

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Speaker 3: Hopefully it's not that big of a deal and he

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Speaker 3: can get it get it going. Nowadays, I mean it

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Speaker 3: was ninety two ninety three. Nowadays, the way they can

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Speaker 3: rehab and the way they prehab and all that kind

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Speaker 3: of stuff, and the kind of shape he is in physically,

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Speaker 3: I would not be surprised if within the next couple

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Speaker 3: of weeks he doesn't start doing you know, activities. I

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Speaker 3: would be They want guys to start walking and working

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Speaker 3: and doing things almost immediately on this type of thing,

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Speaker 3: and it's not like he's gonna have a lot of

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Speaker 3: downtime physically.

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Speaker 2: So that's what Kratz said. Krat said, if you offer

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Speaker 2: a piece of advice, he would say, you know, start

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Speaker 2: doing it, get on it and do activity immediately. I'll

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Speaker 2: start moving, walk on it. Whatever. You can't get the

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Speaker 2: swelling out of there. And Kratz said that he was

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Speaker 2: at a charity function a week after the surgery, at

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Speaker 2: a charity function for the Phillies. Somebody said, hey, how's

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Speaker 2: your rehab going, And you know, he went into a

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Speaker 2: deep catcher squad to show that I'm feeling really good.

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Speaker 2: And you know, just to be clear, the meniscus, it's

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Speaker 2: like a fancy it's essentially a piece of cartilage, and

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Speaker 2: it's a cartilage repair. And I've always envisioned it as like,

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Speaker 2: you know, you get a little flap, you get a

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Speaker 2: bug caught in your eye, and you know, all of

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Speaker 2: a sudden you well up and it's stuck underneath and

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Speaker 2: it's rubbing against everything and it's uncomfortable and sore and painful,

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Speaker 2: and you know, somebody goes in it with a tweezer

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Speaker 2: and pulls it out, cleans out, cleans it out. I've

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Speaker 2: always envisioned that it's kind of similar in fixing this up.

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Speaker 2: So not a major, not a major surgery, thank goodness.

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Speaker 2: And Ruby you mentioned how tough that guy is. He

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Speaker 2: is just tough. That last game of the Milwaukee series

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Speaker 2: and the whole Milwaukee series at all.

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Speaker 3: They get smoked in his drain, he get he gets

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Speaker 3: smoked in the face and a play at home, I mean,

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Speaker 3: and he just you know, kind of shakes things off.

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Speaker 3: And he's fortunate that he's not, you know, he's not

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Speaker 3: one of those guys that can be susceptible to concussions,

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Speaker 3: because if that was the case, I mean, there's a

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Speaker 3: lot of guys who are like that. Fortunately for him,

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Speaker 3: his brain's intact.

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Speaker 1: Ruben you mentioned getting a GM had on it, and

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Speaker 1: Dave Dombrowski said yesterday was asked, does this effect how

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Speaker 1: you look at and moved toward the trade deadline?

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Speaker 3: He said, no, not right now.

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Speaker 1: A short term you have Garrett Stubbs in Raphael Marshaan,

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Speaker 1: how comfortable are you guys with those guys handling the

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Speaker 1: load and how maybe nervous are you with the minor

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Speaker 1: league depth of Triple A depth, Jim, you talked about

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Speaker 1: it a little bit yesterday. I mean, before this is

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Speaker 1: even announced, you have a Ramas Garcia down there and

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Speaker 1: not much else in terms of big league experience ready

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Speaker 1: to play. So let's start Stubbs and Marshaan. Can they

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Speaker 1: handle these handle this role for a month for five

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Speaker 1: weeks if that's.

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Speaker 2: What it is, You know, I think so. This team

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Speaker 2: has a history of handling adversity, at least the last

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Speaker 2: three years pretty darn good, right. I mean, they lose

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Speaker 2: Bryce Harper when he gets hit by Blake Snell on

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Speaker 2: June twenty five of twenty twenty two, and you know

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Speaker 2: they missed them for like fifty two games, and they

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Speaker 2: go thirty two and twenty. You know, one of the

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Speaker 2: guys that really stepped up was real Mudo at that

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Speaker 2: at that point coincident, he went, you know, he had

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Speaker 2: hit over three hundred the rest of the way after

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Speaker 2: a slow start mid eight hundreds. Ops. You look at

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Speaker 2: the way they stepped up with Sosa filling in for

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Speaker 2: Trey Turner. They lost Hoskins, they lost Harper again last year.

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Speaker 2: If you remember in twenty two twenty two down the

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Speaker 2: stretch they lost Eflyn, they lost Wheeler briefly, and Bailey

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Speaker 2: Falter really filled the breach very well. So they have

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Speaker 2: a history of guys stepping up. It's going to have

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Speaker 2: to happen in the persons of march On and Stubbs.

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Speaker 2: I think they're capable. I both think they have strengths.

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Speaker 2: They both have strength. I think they're probably itchy for

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Speaker 2: this opportunity. I'm really eager to see march On really

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Speaker 2: good receiver. We've been writing about him forever. He has

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Speaker 2: had trouble staying healthy. But it's a nice little audition

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Speaker 2: for him. Some of his strengths of receiving and defense

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Speaker 2: and working with the pitching staff. You know, he shows

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Speaker 2: himself well here. He might be the backup catcher next year.

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Speaker 2: And who knows where Stubb's going to be. Stubbs shows

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Speaker 2: himself well here. He may be solidifying his role for

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Speaker 2: a earlier I don't know, but it's a great opportunity

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Speaker 2: for both guys. Do they need more depth, I mean

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Speaker 2: I think they probably do at the upper levels. I

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Speaker 2: mean JT just didn't seam right. I mean the last

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Speaker 2: handful of handful of the last couple of weeks, and

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Speaker 2: you worried about if he was going to have to

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Speaker 2: go down, and would it be nice to add some

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Speaker 2: more depth. Yeah, it's tough to find. There are some

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Speaker 2: guys out there. I'm sure any front office worth its

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Speaker 2: salt is looking under every stone to fortify in the

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Speaker 2: wake of this news.

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Speaker 3: No, Ruben, Yeah, I would think so. I mean, obviously,

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Speaker 3: the catching position is the specialized positions a little bit

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Speaker 3: like having a quarterback backup quarterback. You know, you want

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Speaker 3: to have somebody who can step forward and be ready

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Speaker 3: to play. You know, seventy percent of the games, eighty

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Speaker 3: percent five percent of the games if someone catastrophically were

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Speaker 3: to go down. This is not that situation. And I

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Speaker 3: think there's gonna be some patience on Dave Debrowski's radar

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Speaker 3: right now. That said, you know, I agree with you.

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Speaker 3: I think that they're going to be fine. I think

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Speaker 3: they've got, you know, that next man up, next man

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Speaker 3: out mentality, and and I think that the clubhouse, Rob Thompson,

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Speaker 3: they sort of nurture that, Hey, come on in here,

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Speaker 3: help us out. You're going to be part of our

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Speaker 3: team and let's move this thing forward. I mean, you

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Speaker 3: saw what David Dall. Did you see what Cody Clements

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Speaker 3: did you see obviously what Edmundo Sosa has done over

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Speaker 3: the last several weeks. The great thing about this is offensively,

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Speaker 3: you're going to get Turner back here shortly. You are

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Speaker 3: also going to get Brad Brandon Marsh back here shortly.

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Speaker 3: Those are all pluses and uh and and that's a

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Speaker 3: good thing. And you have a ten game that's right,

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Speaker 3: ten game pushing on the Atlanta Braves. And so this

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Speaker 3: team is pitching is just too good for them to

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Speaker 3: go in a tank unless everybody breaks. It's just too good.

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Speaker 3: The starting pitching you saw yesterday with uh, you know,

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Speaker 3: with Wheeler, he comes out little rusty in the beginning,

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Speaker 3: and then just deals. I mean, that's that's what you get.

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Speaker 3: Strom finishes Strom and Alvarado finish. Uh. Just terrific. And

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Speaker 3: just by the way, for all the people who are

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Speaker 3: panicking about Alvarado from two days ago or three days ago, uh,

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Speaker 3: you know, that's Rob Thompson just throwing guys right back

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Speaker 3: out there. I believe in you. I understand you have

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Speaker 3: a bad day. Who cares You're still going to be

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Speaker 3: in that situation again the next time out? And he

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Speaker 3: sends him out there and he deals so everybody can

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Speaker 3: take a good, nice breather, and that's that's how it

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Speaker 3: works here with the Phillies this year. I am very

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Speaker 3: interested to see Marshaun play. There is a history of

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Speaker 3: catchers from mar Chivo, Venezuela who can really really catch.

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Speaker 3: They have Venezuelan catchers are really good defensively, and it's

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Speaker 3: a good He has been hurt a lot. I've heard

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Speaker 3: a lot about him. I know I talk got a

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Speaker 3: chance to chat with him. He is really invested in

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Speaker 3: the defensive side of the game. For a young player,

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Speaker 3: most guys are, you know, worried about their offense. And

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Speaker 3: he's a switch hitter. I mean he can, he can

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Speaker 3: hit a little bit. I don't know what kind of

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Speaker 3: hitter he will be at the end of the day

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Speaker 3: at the major league level, but the kid can catch.

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Speaker 3: I love the way he receives. I think he's totally

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Speaker 3: invested in a defensive part of the game. And that's all.

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Speaker 3: They really need. Somebody to kind of run the games,

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Speaker 3: and stub Stubby does a good job. He throws well.

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Speaker 3: Marshaun sains sort of thing. He throws well, he catches well.

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Speaker 3: I think he's gonna have to learn this staff much

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Speaker 3: more than Stubby. He does just because Stubby's been doing

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Speaker 3: it and catching these guys for a while. But I

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Speaker 3: have no issue with this other than the fact that

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Speaker 3: at some point you're gonna have to get this guy

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Speaker 3: back because he's such an important part of this ball club.

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Speaker 3: And you will get him back within the next three

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Speaker 3: to five weeks.

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Speaker 2: He'll be with a lot of season to go, he'll

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Speaker 2: be healthy, he'll have a little juice in the batteries.

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Speaker 2: This this has a chance to work out really well,

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Speaker 2: and I can't wait to see marchha On. I think

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Speaker 2: Sally Gustinelli first saw him as a like thirteen or

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Speaker 2: fourteen year old middle infielder in Saint Martin and talk

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Speaker 2: to him, talk to the dad, said you would like

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Speaker 2: to put your you know, you think you could go

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Speaker 2: behind the plate, and that's how that's how they ended

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Speaker 2: up with him.

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Speaker 3: A little bit like Choos right, cho a basement from Panama,

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Speaker 3: you know, five seven five eight five five eight second

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Speaker 3: basement signed for four thousand dollars. Now Marshaan, I think

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Speaker 3: signed for a little bit more than that. But that said, anytime,

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Speaker 3: anytime you get a switch in and catcher who can

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Speaker 3: handle himself behind the dish. It's the weakest position offensively anyway.

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Speaker 3: And if he can have a guy, I mean, one

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Speaker 3: of the most wortant things for this staff right now

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Speaker 3: is who can handle the staff and run this game

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Speaker 3: without frustration, right for the pitching guys on the mouth.

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Speaker 3: And if you can do that, that's what you need.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely, would you guys, you would want JT to still

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Speaker 2: travel and be around every day, right Todd?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I would think so. If you can be around

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Speaker 1: every day, absolutely. I mean he's such a tremendous presence

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Speaker 1: and he studies. I mean, this guy, you know, he

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Speaker 1: he's always working with the pictures and studying. He's got

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Speaker 1: his iPad out, he's got his papers out. Before every start,

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Speaker 1: he goes over stuff. I mean, what a tremendous asset

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Speaker 1: to have, you know, for for stubs and especially for Marshawn.

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Speaker 1: If Marshan's got a question, what a great guy to

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Speaker 1: go to and say, hey, what do you think about

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Speaker 1: this plan with it for this hitter or whatever the

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Speaker 1: case may be. So I would love to have JT around,

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Speaker 1: you know. And and JT is the type of guy too,

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Speaker 1: I think he will make himself available. He has told

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Speaker 1: Marshawn he will make himself available, so keep him around. Tremendous,

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Speaker 1: tremendous guy. And you know he's got such a great

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Speaker 1: presence just.

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Speaker 3: To Yeah, I can foresee all three of these guys,

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Speaker 3: uh in the pictures meeting with Cavin Coffin and Kaplan,

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Speaker 3: Brian Kampelan and all the guys that are, you know,

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Speaker 3: putting the plans together. I absolutely can see these guys

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Speaker 3: being together discussing, working through and attacking and game planning

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Speaker 3: these hitters.

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Speaker 2: Okay, So so bottom line, we're not panicking.

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Speaker 1: I'm not panicking. You guys said ten game lead. You've

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Speaker 1: got this starting pitching staff. I mean, this is that's

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Speaker 1: the best bumper you can have right now. When you

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Speaker 1: lose a catcher like that, an offensive catcher like that,

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Speaker 1: it's more than an offensive catcher. But the starting pitching staff.

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Speaker 1: You've got Turner coming back, You've got Marsh coming back.

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Speaker 1: Schwarber hit two bombs on Monday night in Boston. Maybe

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Speaker 1: it's finally time for some Schwarberfest action.

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Speaker 3: You never know, so they.

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Speaker 1: It's always for surest Jimmy, you know he loves.

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Speaker 3: The and on and on top of that, I mean,

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Speaker 3: and on top of that, he's not the only leader

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Speaker 3: on this all. He's one of the leaders. You've had

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Speaker 3: so many other leaders that it's not going to take

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Speaker 3: away from like the the dynamic in the clubhouse. I mean,

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Speaker 3: you have other guys that the sharpers and the harpers

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Speaker 3: and and so many others, even the young guys are

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Speaker 3: sort of leading themselves, and so you're not gonna lead.

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Speaker 3: You're not gonna leave any of that out there either,

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Speaker 3: So it'll be just fine.

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Speaker 2: I just I just wanted to make sure we weren't

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Speaker 2: panicking because, you know, a little bit of full disclosure here,

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Speaker 2: we had to lug Ruben off the golf course for

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Speaker 2: this reactionary podcast.

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Speaker 3: Yes we did, Yes we did. And I actually shot

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Speaker 3: a really nice eighty two today. It was very very

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Speaker 3: strong at Yardley Country Club. Boom hit it nicely. It

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Speaker 3: was clean today, it was clean. I'm getting there. We're

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Speaker 3: getting close to our member guests, so I gotta get

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Speaker 3: ready going, man, you're going to start peaking at the

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Speaker 3: right time.

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Speaker 2: Oh my gosh.

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Speaker 1: Well, all right, guys, thanks for the time. We will

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Speaker 1: be back later this week to talk to kind of

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Speaker 1: wrap up the Red Sox series. And preview this big

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Speaker 1: series coming up weekend series against the Orioles in Baltimore.

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Speaker 1: Talk to you guys, Letter Samellia, smiled Jim. This is

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Speaker 1: the Philly Show. If you haven't already, please subscribe to

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Speaker 1: also watch us on our YouTube channel. If you like

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Speaker 1: what we do, give us a review, Tell a friend.

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Speaker 1: Catch Rubenjim and Me on Phillies Nation TV, presented by

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Speaker 1: Saturday Phillies game on NBC Sports Philadelphia. Replays air throughout

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Speaker 1: the week and on Philliesnation dot com. Get more of

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Speaker 1: Ruben's analysis during before and after Phillies games on NBC

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Speaker 1: Sports Philadelphia, on the Sports Radio ninety four, WIP Morning Show,

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Speaker 1: and MLB Network Rejim at the Allcity Network at allphl

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Speaker 1: y dot com. Find more of me at MLB dot com,

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Speaker 1: the pH Newsletter, and occasionally on MLB

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Speaker 3: Network mm HM