Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts Radio. I'm Joe, Matthew and Washington.
Speaker 1: Thanks for being with us here on Bloomberg TV and Radio. Indeed,
Speaker 1: as we consider the Nvidia story today, one hundred billion
Speaker 1: dollar investment in open AI, and it immediately raises questions
Speaker 1: about energy, the demand for clean, renewable energy to power
Speaker 1: so many of these projects and data centers that are
Speaker 1: sprouting out of the earth like weeds. Energy and securing
Speaker 1: more of it was a big part of the conversation
Speaker 1: earlier today with the Governor of Pennsylvania, Josh Shapiro. The Democrat,
Speaker 1: spent some time with Bloomberg's Tyler Kendall as he attended
Speaker 1: a thirteen state summit to discuss the future of the
Speaker 1: PJM interconnection. This is the biggest power grid operator in
Speaker 1: the United States, not just in the region, serving over
Speaker 1: sixty seven million customers, stretching from Chicago to New Jersey.
Speaker 1: It's a lot of power. It's the first conference here
Speaker 1: gathering the thirteen states, and Tyler started by assis Governor
Speaker 1: Shapiro about prices, steps that can be taken to lower
Speaker 1: the cost of energy. Let's listen.
Speaker 2: We're here in Philadelphia, which is not only the birthplace
Speaker 2: of democracy was here that PGMs started ninety eight years ago.
Speaker 2: And I think this conversation that we're having right here
Speaker 2: at the National Constitution Center is really the first of
Speaker 2: its kind opportunity for people from all thirteen states, from
Speaker 2: all the different entities that make up a PJM, are
Speaker 2: here to have a conversation on how we can enact
Speaker 2: real reforms so we can hold down costs and increase
Speaker 2: power generation and give states, the governors and representatives of
Speaker 2: our states, more of a say in the process. PGM
Speaker 2: has kind of been a black box for too many years,
Speaker 2: and as a result of that, they're two darns slow,
Speaker 2: and they are raising costs at really an alarming rate.
Speaker 2: And so I think what you're going to hear from
Speaker 2: all the different states today, by the way, led by
Speaker 2: Democrats and Republicans, is a desire to see real reform
Speaker 2: at PGM. I just kicked off the conference here, and
Speaker 2: I think folks are ready for a good and honest
Speaker 2: and spirited discussion about how we fix PGM going forward.
Speaker 3: Well, Governor, since you referenced your opening remarks, you said
Speaker 3: that if PGM refuses to change, we will be forced
Speaker 3: to go in a different direction. Do you mean to
Speaker 3: leave PJM.
Speaker 2: We're willing to if PGM is unwilling to enact real
Speaker 2: reforms to give governors and our representatives more of a
Speaker 2: seat at the table in a say, in these policies
Speaker 2: so we can both control costs and increase power generation. Listen,
Speaker 2: I'm in to all of the above. Energy governor overseeing
Speaker 2: a state that's the second largest energy producer in this country.
Speaker 2: We need to produce more energy as a nation to
Speaker 2: give us more economic opportunity and more freedom. And because
Speaker 2: of PGM, we've been stymied in our efforts. It has
Speaker 2: slowed us down, and at the same time lowing us down,
Speaker 2: it's increasing costs. So if PGM is not willing to
Speaker 2: look in the mirror and really reform itself, then I'm
Speaker 2: willing to go my own way, and Pennsylvania can stand
Speaker 2: alone in this effort. We can produce enough energy for us,
Speaker 2: and we can produce enough energy at a far quicker
Speaker 2: rate than PGM is able to. Right now, we recognize
Speaker 2: that that would have a significant impact on these thirteen
Speaker 2: states that make up PGM, or the twelve other states,
Speaker 2: I should say, as well as the entire nation, just
Speaker 2: given the energy dominant position we're standing in. So our
Speaker 2: first hope is that there'd be real reform. But mark
Speaker 2: my words, if they're unwilling to do real reform, we're
Speaker 2: willing to go it alone.
Speaker 3: Well when would you make that decision? Do you have
Speaker 3: a timeline or a deadline that you're giving PJM to
Speaker 3: respond to the changes that you want to see.
Speaker 2: Well, look, I've already sued PGM successfully when they tried
Speaker 2: to jack up rates on Pennsylvania consumers and other consumers
Speaker 2: in them great area. We won that suit and we
Speaker 2: were able to save consumers nearly twenty billion dollars in
Speaker 2: added costs. Today, we've just embarked on this important reform conversation.
Speaker 2: I want to see how that goes. I'm not giving
Speaker 2: them a long leash here, but i want to give
Speaker 2: them some time to see if they're willing to reform.
Speaker 2: If they make clear that they're unwilling to reform, they're
Speaker 2: going to keep doing it their own way, then we're
Speaker 2: going to have to go our own way and governor.
Speaker 3: We know part of this conversation has to do with
Speaker 3: the power consumption related to big tech and artificial intelligence.
Speaker 3: Your state has secured a twenty billion dollar investment pledge
Speaker 3: from Amazon for data centers as one example. How much
Speaker 3: pain do you think us consumers are going to be
Speaker 3: willing to bear here when it comes to the need
Speaker 3: to invest in this critical technology.
Speaker 2: Well, we have the capacity to be able to do
Speaker 2: both here in Pennsylvania at affordable rates. We can walk
Speaker 2: in chew gum here in our commonwealth. We can allow
Speaker 2: a consumer in their home to be able to flip
Speaker 2: the switch on and not see added costs when the
Speaker 2: lights go on in their home, and to know that
Speaker 2: the lights are going to go on on the hottest
Speaker 2: days of summer in the coldest days of winter. At
Speaker 2: the same time, we can be open for business and land.
Speaker 2: As you noted, an initial twenty billion dollar investment from
Speaker 2: AWS to build out data centers. We've got other major
Speaker 2: economic development announcements that are on the way, and I
Speaker 2: think energy is a critically important component to any of
Speaker 2: these big energy deals. What we're doing here in Pennsylvania
Speaker 2: is turning on energy sources like we did at the
Speaker 2: Old Three Mile Island. We're converting old coal fire power
Speaker 2: plants into natural gas run power plants, which are both
Speaker 2: cleaner and are now able to produce new energy onto
Speaker 2: the grid. The problem is, we're moving quickly in Pennsylvania,
Speaker 2: but PGM, too, oftentimes is slowing us up. I no
Speaker 2: longer want to be constrained by PJM moving not at
Speaker 2: the speed of business, but too darn slow. If they
Speaker 2: can't move quickly, if they can't reform themselves, We're going
Speaker 2: to figure out how to do this on our own.
Speaker 2: Economic development and the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania is directly tied
Speaker 2: to energy generation, which is also directly tied to keeping
Speaker 2: consumer costs down. We need to do all of it,
Speaker 2: we need to do it quickly.
Speaker 3: And Governor, big tech companies say that they want to
Speaker 3: pay their fair share when it comes to this, what
Speaker 3: would that look like in practice.
Speaker 2: Well, making sure that they invest in creating new energy
Speaker 2: or paying for the energy they use on the grid
Speaker 2: if the grid has capacity for both them and consumers
Speaker 2: and other businesses. That's certainly the kind of deals that
Speaker 2: we negotiate here in Pennsylvania.
Speaker 3: And Governor, in the final minutes that we have with you,
Speaker 3: President Trump last month said that his administration will not
Speaker 3: approve solar or wind power projects. This as part of
Speaker 3: a bid to tighten the federal permitting a process around renewables.
Speaker 3: Has this changed your strategy in Pennsylvania, which is a
Speaker 3: top energy producing state.
Speaker 2: Well, look, I'm in all of the above energy governor.
Speaker 2: I wish the President was in all of the above
Speaker 2: energy present. The President's actions are making it harder for
Speaker 2: us here in Pennsylvania. In fact, as a result of
Speaker 2: cutting a bunch of tax credits for clean energy projects,
Speaker 2: the President is putting twenty six thousand Pennsylvania jobs, mostly
Speaker 2: union trade jobs, at risk of being lost when these
Speaker 2: projects shut down. I mean, I don't know why he's
Speaker 2: trying to make it harder for us to generate energy.
Speaker 2: We should generate solar and wind energy, natural gas energy,
Speaker 2: and other nuclear and other forms of energy. I don't
Speaker 2: know why he's taking these steps that are making it
Speaker 2: harder for us in Pennsylvania. I'm a governor that wants
Speaker 2: to unleash our full potential. We do that by having
Speaker 2: a full range of energy options available. I think the
Speaker 2: President's policies are misguided. It's going to put people out
Speaker 2: of work, and it's going to make it harder for
Speaker 2: Pennsylvania to compete.
Speaker 3: And lastly, a governor just sticking on the President's policies
Speaker 3: because part of the conversation when we are talking about
Speaker 3: energy production does have to do with the workforce. And
Speaker 3: we saw over the weekend the administration move to impose
Speaker 3: a one hundred one thousand dollars fee for each one
Speaker 3: B visa applicants. I'm wondering if you see this for
Speaker 3: impacting any of the sectors that we're talking about here,
Speaker 3: particularly around tech, as Pennsylvania wants to attract those workers
Speaker 3: and those investments from these big companies.
Speaker 2: I think the president's immigration policies are making it harder
Speaker 2: for us to compete, and I hear that on our
Speaker 2: farm lands in the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania all the way
Speaker 2: to our universities here in Pennsylvania. When we can't attract
Speaker 2: great talent to be able to produce our food or
Speaker 2: to be able to produce the next major invention or
Speaker 2: innovation that makes us less competitive as a nation. The
Speaker 2: President's immigration policies, combined with his tariff policies, are making
Speaker 2: it harder for us to compete and driving up the
Speaker 2: cost of goods in this commonwealth and across this country.
Speaker 2: I think what the President's doing is harming America, isolating
Speaker 2: America and making it harder for workers here in Pennsylvania,
Speaker 2: from our farmlands to our universities.
Speaker 1: Governor Joshapiro, Democrat from Pennsylvania, in conversation with Tyler Kendall,