1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:02,600 Speaker 1: Then, Matti Haaffer here, before we get into this episode, 2 00:00:02,680 --> 00:00:04,280 Speaker 1: I wanted to let you know that you can hear 3 00:00:04,400 --> 00:00:08,000 Speaker 1: all episodes of Revisionist History The Staten Island problem ad 4 00:00:08,000 --> 00:00:11,680 Speaker 1: free right now. By signing up for Pushkin Plus. You'll 5 00:00:11,680 --> 00:00:15,000 Speaker 1: also get bonus episodes, full audiobooks, and other binges from 6 00:00:15,000 --> 00:00:18,560 Speaker 1: your favorite Pushkin hosts and authors. 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All right, let's get into the series. 12 00:00:39,560 --> 00:00:42,280 Speaker 2: A while back, my colleague Benaedaf Haffrey came to me 13 00:00:42,360 --> 00:00:45,760 Speaker 2: with a story about a strange little island that no 14 00:00:45,880 --> 00:00:52,239 Speaker 2: outsider every visits, forgotten, overlooked, reached by boat across an 15 00:00:52,280 --> 00:00:55,840 Speaker 2: expanse of turbulent water, where the locals practice their own 16 00:00:55,960 --> 00:01:00,400 Speaker 2: unique customs, engage in their own strange variety of politics, 17 00:01:01,120 --> 00:01:05,520 Speaker 2: and where incredibly, everything that is happening currently in America 18 00:01:06,360 --> 00:01:14,399 Speaker 2: already happened long ago Staten Island. And so today we 19 00:01:14,480 --> 00:01:17,920 Speaker 2: bring you a new series, The Staten Island problem in it. 20 00:01:18,080 --> 00:01:20,160 Speaker 2: Ben is going to take us back in time to 21 00:01:20,240 --> 00:01:23,320 Speaker 2: the nineteen nineties, when a young real estate scion named 22 00:01:23,319 --> 00:01:26,960 Speaker 2: Donald Trump was chasing models in downtown nightclubs, when the 23 00:01:27,000 --> 00:01:30,240 Speaker 2: subways were covered in graffiti, and when the homicide epidemic 24 00:01:30,280 --> 00:01:35,200 Speaker 2: was at its peak and Staten Island decided enough already. 25 00:01:36,120 --> 00:01:38,840 Speaker 2: Ben will share what he's discovered deep in the distant 26 00:01:38,880 --> 00:01:42,039 Speaker 2: corners of New York's archives and tell the story of 27 00:01:42,040 --> 00:01:46,200 Speaker 2: a civil war within the Five Boroughs, a secessionist movement, 28 00:01:46,880 --> 00:01:51,040 Speaker 2: the rise of Rudy Giuliani, the Wu Tang clan, and 29 00:01:51,120 --> 00:01:54,520 Speaker 2: ultimately a parable for what we're all living through right now. 30 00:01:55,400 --> 00:01:58,240 Speaker 2: How a country that thought it was united comes apart. 31 00:01:59,120 --> 00:02:03,200 Speaker 2: What was it? Hemingway? One set of bankruptcy. It happens 32 00:02:03,240 --> 00:02:08,720 Speaker 2: two ways, gradually, and then suddenly. I promise you that 33 00:02:08,800 --> 00:02:10,960 Speaker 2: at every turn in this bizarre story, you will say 34 00:02:11,000 --> 00:02:15,880 Speaker 2: to yourself, I didn't know that, and then oh, that's 35 00:02:15,919 --> 00:02:19,280 Speaker 2: how we got to where we are today. This is 36 00:02:19,320 --> 00:02:22,440 Speaker 2: the first of what will be five episodes. You can 37 00:02:22,480 --> 00:02:24,840 Speaker 2: expect new ones in your feet every week, or you 38 00:02:24,840 --> 00:02:27,840 Speaker 2: can subscribe to push kid Plus and binge the whole series. 39 00:02:27,919 --> 00:02:28,600 Speaker 3: Right now. 40 00:02:31,040 --> 00:02:34,959 Speaker 1: Over to Ben, Let me say up top that I 41 00:02:35,000 --> 00:02:37,919 Speaker 1: am not from Staten Island, though many people I spoke 42 00:02:37,960 --> 00:02:40,359 Speaker 1: to for the serious scene to think I am. I'm 43 00:02:40,360 --> 00:02:42,799 Speaker 1: from Boston. But when I was a kid, I used 44 00:02:42,800 --> 00:02:45,440 Speaker 1: to dream about moving to New York. I used to 45 00:02:45,480 --> 00:02:48,840 Speaker 1: watch Fantasia two thousand all the time. Well, actually, just 46 00:02:48,880 --> 00:02:51,920 Speaker 1: this one sequence about New York City set to George 47 00:02:51,960 --> 00:02:56,120 Speaker 1: Gershwin's Rhapsody in Blue. It opens as the clarinet plays 48 00:02:56,160 --> 00:03:01,160 Speaker 1: that iconic du and a pensil draws in the skyline 49 00:03:01,200 --> 00:03:04,040 Speaker 1: of New York City, and the whole thing is just 50 00:03:04,160 --> 00:03:07,880 Speaker 1: romantic and idealized in hyperkinetic I fell in love with 51 00:03:07,919 --> 00:03:11,239 Speaker 1: the idea of this place. I used to draw that skyline. 52 00:03:11,560 --> 00:03:13,480 Speaker 1: I used to ride my bike around with a tape 53 00:03:13,480 --> 00:03:17,840 Speaker 1: player bungee to the rack, listening to Gershwin, thinking about 54 00:03:17,840 --> 00:03:22,720 Speaker 1: my first apartment where I live, what I'd do? Who 55 00:03:22,760 --> 00:03:25,000 Speaker 1: cares that the cartoon was set in the Great Depression. 56 00:03:26,320 --> 00:03:30,119 Speaker 1: I was a total dufis, But in all my reveries 57 00:03:30,400 --> 00:03:33,160 Speaker 1: I never thought about the most remote part of New 58 00:03:33,240 --> 00:03:38,280 Speaker 1: York City, Staten Island. New York is made up of 59 00:03:38,320 --> 00:03:40,520 Speaker 1: five burroughs, each of which is like its own little 60 00:03:40,560 --> 00:03:44,520 Speaker 1: city queens. The Bronx, Manhattan, Brooklyn, where I live now, 61 00:03:45,000 --> 00:03:48,200 Speaker 1: and then the farthest away and smallest at least by population, 62 00:03:48,720 --> 00:03:52,520 Speaker 1: Staten Island. And as I've come to learn, Staten Island 63 00:03:52,560 --> 00:03:54,760 Speaker 1: is a kind of uncomfortable fact of New York City. 64 00:03:55,360 --> 00:03:58,400 Speaker 1: It's the butt of the joke always. I mean, listen 65 00:03:58,440 --> 00:03:59,920 Speaker 1: to this recent Mayor oal debate. 66 00:04:00,680 --> 00:04:01,840 Speaker 4: I'll start with you, mus Adams. 67 00:04:01,920 --> 00:04:04,200 Speaker 5: Which borough have you spent the least amount of time. 68 00:04:04,000 --> 00:04:09,760 Speaker 3: In Staten Island? Miss l A, Staten Island. 69 00:04:09,920 --> 00:04:13,119 Speaker 6: Mister Lander, Stotton Island, Mister Mom, Donnie. 70 00:04:13,320 --> 00:04:16,920 Speaker 7: The beacon of free transit, Staten Island, Mister Myrie, I'd 71 00:04:16,920 --> 00:04:18,640 Speaker 7: stan out, mister Stringer. 72 00:04:19,000 --> 00:04:20,680 Speaker 3: I've been doing this, I've been everywhere. 73 00:04:23,560 --> 00:04:28,080 Speaker 1: It was almost a sweet I learned about Staten Island 74 00:04:28,120 --> 00:04:31,120 Speaker 1: after I first moved to New York City. That summer, 75 00:04:31,279 --> 00:04:34,000 Speaker 1: some friends invited me to a Staten Island Yankees game, 76 00:04:34,200 --> 00:04:37,040 Speaker 1: their old minor league baseball team. When I looked up 77 00:04:37,080 --> 00:04:39,240 Speaker 1: how to get there, I learned that I would have 78 00:04:39,279 --> 00:04:43,080 Speaker 1: to take a subway to a ferry, a literal ship. 79 00:04:44,080 --> 00:04:47,400 Speaker 1: I got on board. There was a bar, huge windows, 80 00:04:47,600 --> 00:04:50,719 Speaker 1: twenty five thirty minute ride where you see the statue 81 00:04:50,760 --> 00:04:54,240 Speaker 1: of liberty out the right side, and then you just 82 00:04:54,400 --> 00:04:59,440 Speaker 1: keep going. The New York City skyline recedes into the distance, 83 00:05:00,240 --> 00:05:03,440 Speaker 1: and then you land in a place that just is 84 00:05:03,480 --> 00:05:10,159 Speaker 1: not New York City. New York City is all shoe 85 00:05:10,160 --> 00:05:14,320 Speaker 1: box apartments. Staten Island is single family homes. New York 86 00:05:14,320 --> 00:05:18,040 Speaker 1: City is liberal, Staten Island is conservative. New York City 87 00:05:18,040 --> 00:05:21,080 Speaker 1: at large is mostly people of color. Staten Island is 88 00:05:21,120 --> 00:05:24,680 Speaker 1: mostly white. New York City is defined by its subway. 89 00:05:24,839 --> 00:05:28,200 Speaker 1: Staten Island has a single, dinky railway, and everyone drives 90 00:05:28,200 --> 00:05:32,080 Speaker 1: a car Anyways. New York are words that convey prestige 91 00:05:32,160 --> 00:05:35,120 Speaker 1: and power the world over, the center of finance, the 92 00:05:35,120 --> 00:05:37,760 Speaker 1: center of media, the largest city in the country, the 93 00:05:37,880 --> 00:05:42,320 Speaker 1: kind of place George Gershwin rhapsodizes. Meanwhile, a member of 94 00:05:42,360 --> 00:05:45,159 Speaker 1: the College of Staten Island board of trustees told me 95 00:05:45,240 --> 00:05:48,680 Speaker 1: he once suggested they drop Staten Island from the name 96 00:05:48,720 --> 00:05:52,480 Speaker 1: of the college because it made people take it less seriously. 97 00:05:54,040 --> 00:05:56,479 Speaker 1: Once Staten Island was supposed to get the world's largest 98 00:05:56,520 --> 00:05:59,600 Speaker 1: fairest wheel, it did not. You was supposed to get 99 00:05:59,600 --> 00:06:02,800 Speaker 1: connected to New York subway. Once they broke ground on 100 00:06:02,839 --> 00:06:06,279 Speaker 1: a tunnel, and that was the end of it. For 101 00:06:06,320 --> 00:06:10,120 Speaker 1: all these reasons and more, Staten Island calls itself the 102 00:06:10,160 --> 00:06:14,680 Speaker 1: forgotten borough, the least beloved, the most ignored. It was 103 00:06:14,720 --> 00:06:17,039 Speaker 1: once the place where New York City put most of 104 00:06:17,080 --> 00:06:22,240 Speaker 1: its trash, literally the largest landfill on the planet. But 105 00:06:22,400 --> 00:06:26,200 Speaker 1: starting in the late nineteen eighties, Staten Island had decided 106 00:06:26,640 --> 00:06:29,279 Speaker 1: it didn't want to be dumped on anymore. It didn't 107 00:06:29,279 --> 00:06:32,960 Speaker 1: want to be forgotten anymore. So it began a movement 108 00:06:33,120 --> 00:06:36,680 Speaker 1: to secede from New York City, leave do its own thing, 109 00:06:36,800 --> 00:06:41,680 Speaker 1: become an entirely different place, something that, if it happened, 110 00:06:42,560 --> 00:06:47,840 Speaker 1: threatened to destroy New York. So why am I telling 111 00:06:47,880 --> 00:06:50,919 Speaker 1: you this? Because it all seems so familiar to me. 112 00:06:51,680 --> 00:06:56,520 Speaker 1: Every political arrangement includes some disgruntled minority, someone or some 113 00:06:56,680 --> 00:06:59,880 Speaker 1: place that feels left out, forgotten, like they don't matter. 114 00:07:00,800 --> 00:07:03,960 Speaker 1: I think that problem is at the very heart of 115 00:07:03,960 --> 00:07:07,760 Speaker 1: what's going on in our country today. So I began 116 00:07:07,839 --> 00:07:16,040 Speaker 1: to investigate the Staten Island problem. You're listening to Revisionist History. 117 00:07:16,200 --> 00:07:19,120 Speaker 1: I'm Ben Mattahaffrey, and this is our series about an 118 00:07:19,120 --> 00:07:22,880 Speaker 1: overlooked and misunderstood movement in the nineteen nineties to break 119 00:07:22,960 --> 00:07:27,360 Speaker 1: up the largest and greatest city in the country. This summer, 120 00:07:27,560 --> 00:07:30,680 Speaker 1: the United States is celebrating the anniversary of its founding 121 00:07:30,800 --> 00:07:33,920 Speaker 1: by an act of secession, e quibble over taxes and 122 00:07:33,960 --> 00:07:37,960 Speaker 1: representation that defied an empire and created a country which 123 00:07:37,960 --> 00:07:41,800 Speaker 1: has altered the course of human history. All of which 124 00:07:41,840 --> 00:07:44,040 Speaker 1: is to say, I think it's the right time to 125 00:07:44,080 --> 00:07:47,520 Speaker 1: ask what do you do when that democracy looks like 126 00:07:47,560 --> 00:07:53,800 Speaker 1: it's about to fall apart? This is the Staten Island Problem, 127 00:07:53,960 --> 00:08:07,280 Speaker 1: Episode one, the Mayor versus the borough President. To start, 128 00:08:07,520 --> 00:08:09,120 Speaker 1: I've got to take you back in time to the 129 00:08:09,160 --> 00:08:10,800 Speaker 1: New York City of long ago. 130 00:08:12,000 --> 00:08:15,600 Speaker 2: When I moved here for the Washington Post. I got 131 00:08:15,640 --> 00:08:20,680 Speaker 2: hardship pay really yeah, like it was not compared to Washington, DC. Yes, 132 00:08:21,560 --> 00:08:24,960 Speaker 2: I got a special cost of limit allowance, which was 133 00:08:25,080 --> 00:08:28,600 Speaker 2: essentially like take a cab compensation for the fact I 134 00:08:28,640 --> 00:08:29,640 Speaker 2: was going to a hell hole. 135 00:08:30,480 --> 00:08:33,320 Speaker 1: Local reporter Malcolm Gladwell was on the scene in that era. 136 00:08:33,920 --> 00:08:35,679 Speaker 2: Was that the Washington Post and I had been there 137 00:08:35,720 --> 00:08:42,280 Speaker 2: since eighty six thirty seven, and the New York Bureau 138 00:08:43,640 --> 00:08:47,560 Speaker 2: I had an opening. The bure chief was leaving, and 139 00:08:47,720 --> 00:08:49,720 Speaker 2: I applied. As it turns out, I was the only 140 00:08:49,760 --> 00:08:50,560 Speaker 2: person who. 141 00:08:50,440 --> 00:08:52,920 Speaker 1: Applied how many people worked at the Washington Post, probably 142 00:08:52,960 --> 00:08:56,360 Speaker 1: a thousand reporters. Nobody wanted the person who wanted to 143 00:08:56,360 --> 00:08:58,000 Speaker 1: be the bureau chief of New York City. 144 00:08:58,440 --> 00:09:01,959 Speaker 2: Nobody but me. He wanted the job. It was the 145 00:09:02,000 --> 00:09:04,440 Speaker 2: sweetest set up in the world. You had, like, you know, 146 00:09:04,480 --> 00:09:06,720 Speaker 2: a credit card, you could put anything you wanted on it. 147 00:09:06,840 --> 00:09:10,480 Speaker 2: You had like an assistant, You had an un lovely 148 00:09:10,480 --> 00:09:11,800 Speaker 2: office in the newsweek building. 149 00:09:12,320 --> 00:09:14,080 Speaker 1: I don't know why, but I was like. 150 00:09:14,120 --> 00:09:17,120 Speaker 2: I want that job, such a good job, so much fun. 151 00:09:17,360 --> 00:09:19,679 Speaker 2: But no, the perception was why we didn't want want 152 00:09:19,679 --> 00:09:21,480 Speaker 2: to go to New York the place that you that 153 00:09:21,559 --> 00:09:25,559 Speaker 2: you left. You didn't voluntarily voluntarily go there. 154 00:09:29,559 --> 00:09:31,360 Speaker 1: This was the version of New York that a man 155 00:09:31,440 --> 00:09:33,880 Speaker 1: named David Dinkins was going to run as mayor. 156 00:09:35,200 --> 00:09:44,200 Speaker 8: He was, by temperament, a conciliator, a pleaser, a guy 157 00:09:44,240 --> 00:09:49,280 Speaker 8: who wanted to make peace among different constituencies, and kind 158 00:09:49,320 --> 00:09:55,360 Speaker 8: of represented in his body and his pastor and his 159 00:09:55,559 --> 00:10:01,480 Speaker 8: affect kind of he really did appeal to people's better angels. 160 00:10:01,880 --> 00:10:04,800 Speaker 1: He really was that. Marcia Smith was a high ranking 161 00:10:04,800 --> 00:10:08,560 Speaker 1: official in the Dinkins administration. She'd first started working with 162 00:10:08,600 --> 00:10:11,360 Speaker 1: him back when he was campaigning for Manhattan Borough President. 163 00:10:12,200 --> 00:10:14,560 Speaker 1: The borough president is like the mayor of each borough. 164 00:10:15,760 --> 00:10:19,800 Speaker 8: As it happened, the whole policy unit in the Borough 165 00:10:19,800 --> 00:10:23,120 Speaker 8: President's office was all women. He used to call us cupkicks. 166 00:10:24,320 --> 00:10:27,040 Speaker 1: She'd watched his rise to become the first black mayor 167 00:10:27,120 --> 00:10:29,120 Speaker 1: of the city in nineteen eighty nine. 168 00:10:29,320 --> 00:10:31,560 Speaker 8: The election of David Dinkin's Remember this was on the 169 00:10:31,600 --> 00:10:34,760 Speaker 8: heels of black mayors being elected in other major cities. 170 00:10:35,000 --> 00:10:37,720 Speaker 8: But this was like New York was like last. But 171 00:10:37,880 --> 00:10:41,800 Speaker 8: it was a very optimistic moment. This was a big moment. 172 00:10:41,960 --> 00:10:44,520 Speaker 8: I felt it as very hopeful. I could also feel, 173 00:10:44,640 --> 00:10:49,839 Speaker 8: of course, the skepticism that felt like there was a 174 00:10:49,880 --> 00:10:50,680 Speaker 8: lot at stake. 175 00:10:51,120 --> 00:10:53,480 Speaker 1: A lot of eyes on you guys, a lot of eyes. 176 00:10:54,960 --> 00:10:59,440 Speaker 1: But contrary to most people who become mayor, Dinkins hadn't 177 00:10:59,440 --> 00:11:03,200 Speaker 1: really wanted the job, and. 178 00:11:06,040 --> 00:11:08,160 Speaker 9: He shied away from the idea of running from mayor, 179 00:11:08,679 --> 00:11:10,360 Speaker 9: and he was convinced to run for mayor. 180 00:11:11,200 --> 00:11:15,280 Speaker 1: Ruth Messenger became Manhattan Borough President after Dinkins. Around the 181 00:11:15,320 --> 00:11:18,880 Speaker 1: same time, the city became majority minority, more people of 182 00:11:18,880 --> 00:11:22,679 Speaker 1: color than white people. Those demographics were why people thought 183 00:11:22,720 --> 00:11:23,800 Speaker 1: Dinkins should run. 184 00:11:24,480 --> 00:11:29,720 Speaker 9: But here's a Blackborough President with some knowledge of state 185 00:11:29,760 --> 00:11:34,000 Speaker 9: government and city government. For sure, perfect candidate for mayor. 186 00:11:35,000 --> 00:11:40,199 Speaker 9: And I promised you that he was pushed to make 187 00:11:40,240 --> 00:11:40,920 Speaker 9: that decision. 188 00:11:42,280 --> 00:11:45,320 Speaker 1: Dinkins was a lifelong New Yorker. He grew up shuttling 189 00:11:45,320 --> 00:11:47,600 Speaker 1: between his mom's place in the city and his dad's 190 00:11:47,600 --> 00:11:50,400 Speaker 1: in New Jersey. His parents had split when he was young. 191 00:11:51,360 --> 00:11:53,760 Speaker 1: His father was a barber, his mom was a maid. 192 00:11:54,440 --> 00:11:56,200 Speaker 1: When he grew up, he went to college at Howard 193 00:11:56,280 --> 00:12:00,680 Speaker 1: University and met his wife. Her father was Harlem political royalty, 194 00:12:01,720 --> 00:12:06,800 Speaker 1: and that's at the course of Dinkins's life. Dinkins died 195 00:12:06,840 --> 00:12:08,680 Speaker 1: in twenty twenty. So I spent a lot of time 196 00:12:08,720 --> 00:12:12,200 Speaker 1: talking to people about him, and everybody had a Dinkins story, 197 00:12:12,720 --> 00:12:15,880 Speaker 1: most of them about how fastidious he was. He would 198 00:12:15,960 --> 00:12:19,360 Speaker 1: shower multiple times a day. He was often in tennis whites. 199 00:12:19,800 --> 00:12:22,560 Speaker 1: A lawyer named Richard Emery remembered going to his office 200 00:12:22,559 --> 00:12:24,959 Speaker 1: to ask him questions for an affidavit in a case. 201 00:12:25,000 --> 00:12:27,840 Speaker 1: Once they were in the bowels of the municipal building, 202 00:12:29,000 --> 00:12:29,560 Speaker 1: and all. 203 00:12:29,440 --> 00:12:32,080 Speaker 5: Of a sudden, David Dinkins gets up from behind the 204 00:12:32,120 --> 00:12:37,720 Speaker 5: desk and he takes his pants off. I think his 205 00:12:37,920 --> 00:12:43,760 Speaker 5: jacket was still on, and he had garters and boxer trousers, 206 00:12:44,800 --> 00:12:47,040 Speaker 5: and I wanted to ask him, what are you doing? 207 00:12:47,360 --> 00:12:49,560 Speaker 5: And he puts them up like this, holds him with 208 00:12:49,559 --> 00:12:53,679 Speaker 5: one hand and takes a steamer and starts to steam 209 00:12:53,720 --> 00:12:54,679 Speaker 5: the pants. 210 00:12:54,720 --> 00:12:56,600 Speaker 1: So that the crease is really nice. 211 00:12:56,920 --> 00:12:58,960 Speaker 5: And he stands there and he's answering my question and 212 00:12:59,000 --> 00:13:00,640 Speaker 5: said he's steaming pants. 213 00:13:03,120 --> 00:13:05,760 Speaker 1: Dinkins didn't like a crease out of order. I have 214 00:13:05,800 --> 00:13:08,040 Speaker 1: to imagine that's part of why being the mayor of 215 00:13:08,120 --> 00:13:12,280 Speaker 1: Chaos City was not necessarily his dream job. When Dinkins 216 00:13:12,400 --> 00:13:15,400 Speaker 1: was elected, his dad told the press, I wouldn't want 217 00:13:15,400 --> 00:13:18,800 Speaker 1: the job for a billion dollars. But Dinkins knew this 218 00:13:19,000 --> 00:13:22,400 Speaker 1: was his chance to make history, and he did. 219 00:13:23,720 --> 00:13:28,240 Speaker 10: I stand here before you today as the elected leader 220 00:13:28,320 --> 00:13:31,640 Speaker 10: of the greatest city of a great nation to which 221 00:13:31,720 --> 00:13:35,320 Speaker 10: my ancestors were brought, chained and whipped in the whole 222 00:13:35,400 --> 00:13:36,280 Speaker 10: of a slave ship. 223 00:13:37,880 --> 00:13:41,240 Speaker 1: In January of nineteen ninety, David Dinkins took the oath 224 00:13:41,240 --> 00:13:43,080 Speaker 1: of office on the steps of city Hall. 225 00:13:43,600 --> 00:13:47,880 Speaker 10: And this year this city has given powerful proof of 226 00:13:47,920 --> 00:13:51,240 Speaker 10: the proposition that all of us are created equal. 227 00:13:52,240 --> 00:13:54,520 Speaker 1: Dinkins had a vision of what the city could be. 228 00:13:55,440 --> 00:13:59,440 Speaker 10: I see New York as a gorgeous mosaic of race 229 00:13:59,480 --> 00:14:04,640 Speaker 10: and religion, faith, of national origin, and sexual orientation of 230 00:14:04,720 --> 00:14:10,680 Speaker 10: individuals whose families arrived yesterday and generations ago, coming through 231 00:14:10,720 --> 00:14:14,720 Speaker 10: Ellis Island or Kennedy Airport, or on buses bound for 232 00:14:14,800 --> 00:14:15,679 Speaker 10: the Port Authority. 233 00:14:17,360 --> 00:14:21,640 Speaker 3: In that spirit, I offer this fundamental. 234 00:14:21,040 --> 00:14:26,480 Speaker 10: Pledge, I intend to be the mayor of all the people. 235 00:14:26,200 --> 00:14:32,000 Speaker 3: Of New York, from City Island to Staten Island. 236 00:14:33,760 --> 00:14:37,720 Speaker 1: New York City has always been deeply segregated into ethnic enclaves, 237 00:14:37,920 --> 00:14:41,320 Speaker 1: the Dominicans of Washington Heights, black people in Central Harlem, 238 00:14:41,520 --> 00:14:45,160 Speaker 1: Italians and Jews and Canarsi. The mosaic was Dinkins's way 239 00:14:45,240 --> 00:14:48,400 Speaker 1: of reconciling those facts. It was his way of saying 240 00:14:48,480 --> 00:14:54,440 Speaker 1: that diversity is not a problem, it's an asset. But 241 00:14:54,480 --> 00:14:57,040 Speaker 1: if you cleared away the buildings he faced as he spoke, 242 00:14:57,600 --> 00:14:59,440 Speaker 1: he would have been looking straight at the peace of 243 00:14:59,440 --> 00:15:02,960 Speaker 1: the mosaic that had recently decided it no longer fit 244 00:15:03,960 --> 00:15:10,720 Speaker 1: Staten Island. After Dinkins was elected, Staten Island had pushed 245 00:15:10,760 --> 00:15:13,720 Speaker 1: forward its bill to secede from New York City. It 246 00:15:13,720 --> 00:15:16,120 Speaker 1: had been in the works for years. At that point, 247 00:15:16,200 --> 00:15:19,200 Speaker 1: but it's hard to imagine. Dinkins didn't take it personally. 248 00:15:19,800 --> 00:15:23,560 Speaker 1: His colleague Marcia Smith thought that for Staten Island, this 249 00:15:23,720 --> 00:15:25,200 Speaker 1: was all about Dinkins. 250 00:15:25,960 --> 00:15:28,560 Speaker 8: Oh my god, what are they thinking? And well, of 251 00:15:28,600 --> 00:15:30,800 Speaker 8: course they're thinking that because they don't want to be 252 00:15:31,440 --> 00:15:32,720 Speaker 8: governed by a black mayor. 253 00:15:32,920 --> 00:15:35,040 Speaker 1: So it immediately seemed racially tinged. 254 00:15:35,080 --> 00:15:35,200 Speaker 11: You. 255 00:15:35,240 --> 00:15:40,200 Speaker 1: Absolutely, Dinkins knew Staten Island was threatening to secede, but 256 00:15:40,280 --> 00:15:43,480 Speaker 1: he didn't know how seriously to take it. Then one 257 00:15:43,560 --> 00:15:47,000 Speaker 1: day his finance commissioner began looking into the matter and 258 00:15:47,080 --> 00:15:52,120 Speaker 1: determined this was a bigger deal than anyone realized. The 259 00:15:52,160 --> 00:15:56,560 Speaker 1: administration looked into it. If Staten Island succeeded, New York 260 00:15:56,800 --> 00:16:00,120 Speaker 1: could be in a financial crisis. The city would, who 261 00:16:00,160 --> 00:16:03,440 Speaker 1: is almost twenty percent of its land, including crucially its 262 00:16:03,520 --> 00:16:07,400 Speaker 1: last operational dump, with a smaller population, It would get 263 00:16:07,400 --> 00:16:09,920 Speaker 1: way less than federal and state aid. It would lose 264 00:16:09,960 --> 00:16:13,720 Speaker 1: possibly the thousands of government workers who lived on Staten Island, 265 00:16:13,800 --> 00:16:16,560 Speaker 1: including thousands of police officers in the middle of a 266 00:16:16,600 --> 00:16:19,800 Speaker 1: crime wave, and it could leave the first black mayor 267 00:16:20,080 --> 00:16:26,320 Speaker 1: with the legacy presiding over the city's destruction. Could Dinkins 268 00:16:26,560 --> 00:16:30,360 Speaker 1: keep the biggest, most fractious city in the country from 269 00:16:30,440 --> 00:16:34,640 Speaker 1: breaking apart. He had to scare Staten Island out of 270 00:16:34,640 --> 00:16:38,440 Speaker 1: doing it, So the city launched a task force, and 271 00:16:38,520 --> 00:16:42,240 Speaker 1: Dinkins decided that he personally would set sail for the 272 00:16:42,280 --> 00:16:50,240 Speaker 1: island to argue the case himself. We'll be right back 273 00:17:02,040 --> 00:17:05,000 Speaker 1: one night. A few weeks before David Dinkins went to 274 00:17:05,040 --> 00:17:09,240 Speaker 1: Staten Island, a police officer named Michael O'Keefe was patrolling 275 00:17:09,280 --> 00:17:12,960 Speaker 1: the Manhattan neighborhood of Washington Heights in an unmarked car. 276 00:17:14,080 --> 00:17:16,920 Speaker 1: He saw a young man tugging a jacket around his waist. 277 00:17:17,240 --> 00:17:21,280 Speaker 1: It was July, not jacket weather. He thought he was 278 00:17:21,320 --> 00:17:26,119 Speaker 1: probably hiding a weapon. O'Keefe pulled over. The kid was 279 00:17:26,160 --> 00:17:31,160 Speaker 1: a suspected drug dealer named Keiko Garcia. O'Keeffe got out 280 00:17:31,560 --> 00:17:35,800 Speaker 1: and tried to arrest him. Garcia resisted. What happened next 281 00:17:36,000 --> 00:17:38,560 Speaker 1: was fast and unclear, but it was a warm evening 282 00:17:38,760 --> 00:17:41,920 Speaker 1: and there were witnesses on the street. They said they 283 00:17:41,920 --> 00:17:45,360 Speaker 1: saw the cop beat Garcia with a walkie talkie, take 284 00:17:45,400 --> 00:17:47,159 Speaker 1: out his knees, and shove him into the lobby of 285 00:17:47,200 --> 00:17:51,320 Speaker 1: an apartment building. They said they heard him screaming mama, mama, 286 00:17:51,400 --> 00:17:57,280 Speaker 1: they are killing me in Spanish. Then two shots. When 287 00:17:57,280 --> 00:18:01,000 Speaker 1: more police arrived, they found O'Keefe's standing of Garcia dead, 288 00:18:02,119 --> 00:18:07,480 Speaker 1: a bullet in the stomach, one in the back. That night, 289 00:18:07,920 --> 00:18:08,720 Speaker 1: the riots began. 290 00:18:09,800 --> 00:18:13,119 Speaker 3: Eighties. Bottles and bricks are being thrown. Several cars have 291 00:18:13,160 --> 00:18:14,000 Speaker 3: been set on fire. 292 00:18:14,119 --> 00:18:16,320 Speaker 8: Some of their occupants have been thrown from the cars. 293 00:18:17,520 --> 00:18:21,159 Speaker 1: The building across from the shooting burned. There was fire everywhere. 294 00:18:25,640 --> 00:18:26,840 Speaker 3: Oh shoo. 295 00:18:27,880 --> 00:18:31,560 Speaker 1: A police helicopter hovered overhead. Someone shot at it. In 296 00:18:31,600 --> 00:18:34,320 Speaker 1: the lobby of the apartment building where Garcia was killed, 297 00:18:34,800 --> 00:18:38,080 Speaker 1: someone used his blood to write Kiko, we love you 298 00:18:38,480 --> 00:18:41,560 Speaker 1: on the wall. One man threw a bottle at some cops, 299 00:18:41,600 --> 00:18:44,360 Speaker 1: then ran away across the rooftops. When they chased him, 300 00:18:44,400 --> 00:18:48,600 Speaker 1: he fell five stories to his death. Protesters burned pictures 301 00:18:48,640 --> 00:18:49,320 Speaker 1: of the police. 302 00:18:50,200 --> 00:18:53,480 Speaker 7: Police officers watching their image burn didn't want to talk 303 00:18:53,520 --> 00:18:55,800 Speaker 7: on camera, but told me later they thought it was 304 00:18:55,840 --> 00:18:58,919 Speaker 7: disgusting and were frustrated by orders not to interfere with 305 00:18:58,960 --> 00:18:59,639 Speaker 7: a demonstration. 306 00:19:00,280 --> 00:19:03,040 Speaker 1: People listening in on police radio said they heard cops 307 00:19:03,080 --> 00:19:06,560 Speaker 1: joking that if they saw Al Sharpton protesting, they should 308 00:19:06,560 --> 00:19:10,600 Speaker 1: shoot him. Phil Caruso, head of the police union took 309 00:19:10,640 --> 00:19:11,520 Speaker 1: to the news. 310 00:19:11,960 --> 00:19:15,040 Speaker 6: Of course, we don't approve of it, we don't condone it, 311 00:19:15,560 --> 00:19:19,240 Speaker 6: but it's something that is sort of a reaction on 312 00:19:19,280 --> 00:19:21,520 Speaker 6: the part of police officers under a lot of stress. 313 00:19:21,680 --> 00:19:23,800 Speaker 6: I think what we should do is start focusing on 314 00:19:23,840 --> 00:19:27,040 Speaker 6: the so called victim. In this case, it was a 315 00:19:27,080 --> 00:19:31,399 Speaker 6: known drug dealer who was wanted under a warrant because 316 00:19:31,400 --> 00:19:32,560 Speaker 6: he violated his parole. 317 00:19:35,200 --> 00:19:38,240 Speaker 1: So, yes, the cops were annoyed with the protesters, but 318 00:19:38,280 --> 00:19:40,760 Speaker 1: they seemed even more annoyed with the mayor. 319 00:19:42,160 --> 00:19:45,320 Speaker 4: I came to pay my respects and offer my condolences 320 00:19:45,359 --> 00:19:49,359 Speaker 4: to the family and to assure them that everything that 321 00:19:49,480 --> 00:19:53,280 Speaker 4: can be done will be done thoroughly investigate the circumstances 322 00:19:53,320 --> 00:19:53,920 Speaker 4: of this debt. 323 00:19:55,840 --> 00:19:59,320 Speaker 1: From the start, Dinkins seemed suspicious about what had happened. 324 00:20:00,440 --> 00:20:04,000 Speaker 1: He met with Garcia's family and consoled them. He invited 325 00:20:04,040 --> 00:20:07,720 Speaker 1: them to Gracie Mansion. He paid for Garcia's body to 326 00:20:07,760 --> 00:20:10,560 Speaker 1: be shipped back to the Dominican Republic for a funeral. 327 00:20:11,080 --> 00:20:14,240 Speaker 1: He walked the streets of Washington Heights and met with people. 328 00:20:15,520 --> 00:20:19,280 Speaker 1: He told them, I promise you justice, I beg you 329 00:20:19,359 --> 00:20:19,800 Speaker 1: for peace. 330 00:20:21,400 --> 00:20:22,840 Speaker 3: I used to live up here I love to come 331 00:20:22,880 --> 00:20:23,639 Speaker 3: to this neighborhood. 332 00:20:24,800 --> 00:20:27,200 Speaker 1: The cops felt Dinkins had sold them out, that he'd 333 00:20:27,280 --> 00:20:31,320 Speaker 1: sided with the family of a drug dealer, and somewhat 334 00:20:31,359 --> 00:20:32,320 Speaker 1: important agreed. 335 00:20:33,960 --> 00:20:35,520 Speaker 7: And my god, if you're going to pay for that funeral, 336 00:20:35,520 --> 00:20:38,480 Speaker 7: there's that place, thousands and thousands of funerals not paid for. 337 00:20:38,480 --> 00:20:39,160 Speaker 1: I'm all city today. 338 00:20:39,200 --> 00:20:41,199 Speaker 7: It would be more justification clothing than that. 339 00:20:41,240 --> 00:20:46,760 Speaker 1: One earo President of Staten Island, Guy Mullinary, the. 340 00:20:46,720 --> 00:20:49,800 Speaker 7: Mayor has not bested with the responsibility of giving religious 341 00:20:49,800 --> 00:20:51,480 Speaker 7: comfort to the family of. 342 00:20:51,440 --> 00:20:52,960 Speaker 3: Somebody killed who's a drug dealer. 343 00:20:53,000 --> 00:20:57,399 Speaker 7: And I think, I think, but that was very badly played. 344 00:20:57,440 --> 00:21:00,760 Speaker 1: And I think mull and Aary had got his start 345 00:21:00,800 --> 00:21:03,399 Speaker 1: as a real estate lawyer on Staten Island. Then he 346 00:21:03,440 --> 00:21:06,000 Speaker 1: got into politics and realized he was really good at it. 347 00:21:06,520 --> 00:21:08,320 Speaker 1: He used to just open up the phone book and 348 00:21:08,359 --> 00:21:12,160 Speaker 1: call random people on Staten Island to talk. He was beloved, 349 00:21:12,440 --> 00:21:16,679 Speaker 1: polarizing in extremely old school. This is him talking to 350 00:21:16,720 --> 00:21:20,080 Speaker 1: a WNYC reporter defending himself the time he said a 351 00:21:20,160 --> 00:21:22,960 Speaker 1: lesbian shouldn't be Attorney General of New York. 352 00:21:23,840 --> 00:21:28,240 Speaker 7: Not one editorial ever took her a task for her 353 00:21:28,440 --> 00:21:31,520 Speaker 7: going out and asking for goats because she was a lesbian, 354 00:21:31,640 --> 00:21:33,920 Speaker 7: not a single look. Do you think there's a difference 355 00:21:33,920 --> 00:21:37,359 Speaker 7: between that and say you are having a fundraiser with 356 00:21:38,680 --> 00:21:40,000 Speaker 7: who's the Italian Americans? 357 00:21:40,280 --> 00:21:40,520 Speaker 3: Sure? 358 00:21:41,520 --> 00:21:43,440 Speaker 7: Sure, what's the Italian American agenda? 359 00:21:44,359 --> 00:21:46,520 Speaker 3: She had a gay and lesbian agenda. 360 00:21:49,119 --> 00:21:52,439 Speaker 1: Mullinary's philosophy was that the only rules in politics are 361 00:21:52,440 --> 00:21:55,600 Speaker 1: what the voters think, and his borough was full of 362 00:21:55,640 --> 00:21:58,280 Speaker 1: people who did not think much of New York City. 363 00:21:58,880 --> 00:22:01,760 Speaker 1: Staten Island was a essentially the last outpost for people 364 00:22:02,000 --> 00:22:04,720 Speaker 1: who would like to leave the city but couldn't because 365 00:22:04,760 --> 00:22:07,520 Speaker 1: they worked for the city and therefore had to live 366 00:22:07,600 --> 00:22:11,600 Speaker 1: within its boundaries. There were a lot of police officers 367 00:22:11,600 --> 00:22:14,600 Speaker 1: on the island, to the point where when I bought 368 00:22:14,600 --> 00:22:17,560 Speaker 1: a used copy of Mollinary's memoir on eBay, it showed 369 00:22:17,600 --> 00:22:21,640 Speaker 1: up with the inscription blue lives always matter. To put 370 00:22:21,680 --> 00:22:26,359 Speaker 1: it mildly, this was not Mayor Dinkins's crowd in the 371 00:22:26,400 --> 00:22:29,760 Speaker 1: weeks after Garcia was killed. It was Mullinary who took 372 00:22:29,800 --> 00:22:32,879 Speaker 1: a stand against Dinkins and how he handled everything. He 373 00:22:32,920 --> 00:22:36,520 Speaker 1: wrote the police precinct in Washington Heights that quote, I 374 00:22:36,600 --> 00:22:38,720 Speaker 1: know that your morale has taken quite a beating in 375 00:22:38,760 --> 00:22:42,160 Speaker 1: recent weeks, and the actions of Mayor Dinkins have undoubtedly 376 00:22:42,280 --> 00:22:46,600 Speaker 1: contributed to your present feelings. However, I did want you 377 00:22:46,720 --> 00:22:48,760 Speaker 1: to know that there are some of us in government 378 00:22:49,160 --> 00:22:54,000 Speaker 1: who hold you in the highest esteem. Dinkins learned about 379 00:22:54,040 --> 00:22:57,040 Speaker 1: the letter just before his trip to Staten Island. He 380 00:22:57,160 --> 00:23:02,760 Speaker 1: was furious. Mollinary said that Dinkins's leaked it to the press, and. 381 00:23:02,840 --> 00:23:05,720 Speaker 7: My letter never would have been made public except that 382 00:23:05,760 --> 00:23:06,800 Speaker 7: he chose to make it public. 383 00:23:07,119 --> 00:23:08,760 Speaker 3: So if you made it public, then how can you 384 00:23:08,760 --> 00:23:09,000 Speaker 3: make the. 385 00:23:09,000 --> 00:23:11,240 Speaker 7: Accusation that I'm trying to stir things up an acre 386 00:23:11,280 --> 00:23:12,840 Speaker 7: to listen in our city. 387 00:23:12,880 --> 00:23:13,119 Speaker 6: I'm not. 388 00:23:13,600 --> 00:23:15,600 Speaker 7: I didn't want to be standing before all of you 389 00:23:15,760 --> 00:23:16,720 Speaker 7: talking about this issue. 390 00:23:16,840 --> 00:23:18,040 Speaker 3: Was just a private letter, I. 391 00:23:18,040 --> 00:23:21,359 Speaker 7: Said to the Minimument of the Precinct, who needed a 392 00:23:21,400 --> 00:23:22,520 Speaker 7: look from somebody in government. 393 00:23:22,560 --> 00:23:23,480 Speaker 2: Nobody else was doing it. 394 00:23:26,040 --> 00:23:28,720 Speaker 1: But at that point Dinkins couldn't call the trip off. 395 00:23:30,280 --> 00:23:33,840 Speaker 1: So one hot summer morning, David Dinkins finally got on 396 00:23:33,920 --> 00:23:39,960 Speaker 1: a ship and set sail for Staten Island. We'll be 397 00:23:40,040 --> 00:23:53,960 Speaker 1: right back. The mayor boarded a ferry in Lower Manhattan 398 00:23:54,200 --> 00:23:56,440 Speaker 1: and charted, of course, a half hour out to sea 399 00:23:57,160 --> 00:24:02,000 Speaker 1: until it reached Staten Island, Dinkins got off the boat 400 00:24:02,240 --> 00:24:05,800 Speaker 1: and made his way to Borrow Hall. A small crowd awaited. 401 00:24:05,560 --> 00:24:08,520 Speaker 7: Him, and I would like to greet you all this 402 00:24:08,680 --> 00:24:11,920 Speaker 7: morning to mark Mayor Dinkins's week long visit here on 403 00:24:12,000 --> 00:24:12,760 Speaker 7: Staten Island. 404 00:24:14,200 --> 00:24:16,439 Speaker 1: A camera crew followed Dinkins on his week out on 405 00:24:16,480 --> 00:24:19,159 Speaker 1: the island. The tapes are in the city archive and 406 00:24:19,200 --> 00:24:22,480 Speaker 1: they are kind of amazing. You see Dinkins in a 407 00:24:22,520 --> 00:24:25,400 Speaker 1: baby blue suit on the steps of Staten Island Borough Hall. 408 00:24:26,160 --> 00:24:28,720 Speaker 1: Then a short man with big glasses and white hair 409 00:24:29,080 --> 00:24:34,679 Speaker 1: steps in front of him. Staten Island's Borough President, Guy Mullinery. 410 00:24:35,400 --> 00:24:38,600 Speaker 7: Mayor Dinkins, distinguished guests and fellow Staten Islanders. 411 00:24:38,680 --> 00:24:40,399 Speaker 3: Good morning today. 412 00:24:40,400 --> 00:24:42,399 Speaker 7: I'd like to speak to you all about the borough. 413 00:24:42,480 --> 00:24:46,480 Speaker 7: I have represented an elective office for seventeen years and 414 00:24:46,600 --> 00:24:50,160 Speaker 7: whatever the problems have been the last few days, I'm 415 00:24:50,160 --> 00:24:52,240 Speaker 7: going to forget them and hope they didn't exist. 416 00:24:52,320 --> 00:24:52,920 Speaker 3: And I think the. 417 00:24:52,880 --> 00:24:55,800 Speaker 7: Mayor and I, whatever our differences are, we'ved up it before, 418 00:24:56,040 --> 00:24:58,040 Speaker 7: just as I have with the mayor before him and 419 00:24:58,080 --> 00:25:00,119 Speaker 7: the mayor before him. 420 00:25:00,359 --> 00:25:01,159 Speaker 3: Yeah. 421 00:25:01,320 --> 00:25:03,159 Speaker 7: Well, when you represent you Stun Island, it goes with 422 00:25:03,200 --> 00:25:06,880 Speaker 7: the terrifight thing to a certain extent. But we'll try 423 00:25:06,880 --> 00:25:08,879 Speaker 7: to put those differences aside, at least I will, and 424 00:25:08,960 --> 00:25:10,160 Speaker 7: I'll speak only for myself. 425 00:25:12,320 --> 00:25:15,280 Speaker 1: It was a hot day. The mayor stood in full 426 00:25:15,320 --> 00:25:19,159 Speaker 1: sun behind the borough president, looking deeply displeased as he 427 00:25:19,200 --> 00:25:24,280 Speaker 1: wiped sweat from his brow. Then Molinari's daughter, susan congresswoman 428 00:25:24,359 --> 00:25:26,359 Speaker 1: for Staten Island, took the mic. 429 00:25:28,640 --> 00:25:30,119 Speaker 3: Well, I know it, excuse me. 430 00:25:30,160 --> 00:25:34,800 Speaker 4: It's customary during most trips when you have special guests 431 00:25:34,880 --> 00:25:36,840 Speaker 4: coming to either the city or the island. 432 00:25:36,920 --> 00:25:39,640 Speaker 6: I'm sure you've done it. You give them a special 433 00:25:39,760 --> 00:25:40,679 Speaker 6: key to the city. 434 00:25:41,200 --> 00:25:43,360 Speaker 3: Well, today it's my great pleasure. 435 00:25:44,080 --> 00:25:49,160 Speaker 1: In Staten Island's own way, it presents you with an 436 00:25:49,200 --> 00:25:56,240 Speaker 1: unofficial lock to the garbage dump. She and her dad 437 00:25:56,280 --> 00:25:59,640 Speaker 1: held up a gigantic sign that said Moulinary Landfill Locke. 438 00:26:00,600 --> 00:26:04,359 Speaker 1: Dinkins did not look happy. Minutes in, it was clear 439 00:26:04,440 --> 00:26:07,880 Speaker 1: that this would be a very drying week for David Dinkins. 440 00:26:08,520 --> 00:26:09,399 Speaker 1: He took the lectern. 441 00:26:10,800 --> 00:26:25,480 Speaker 4: Let me just say a word about Guy Molinary. Uh. 442 00:26:25,560 --> 00:26:29,359 Speaker 4: He knew, he knew I was going to be here today, 443 00:26:30,359 --> 00:26:31,440 Speaker 4: just like I knew. 444 00:26:31,200 --> 00:26:33,360 Speaker 3: That he would be here to greet me about There 445 00:26:33,440 --> 00:26:34,560 Speaker 3: was no doubt about that. 446 00:26:36,160 --> 00:26:39,520 Speaker 1: Both Dinkins and Mellinary were ex Marines, but only Moullinary 447 00:26:39,600 --> 00:26:42,960 Speaker 1: had seen combat. What Dinkins got from the Marines was 448 00:26:43,000 --> 00:26:46,840 Speaker 1: a love of rules and decorum. He was proper and patrician. 449 00:26:47,280 --> 00:26:50,200 Speaker 1: What Mollinary got from the Marines was a killer instinct. 450 00:26:50,600 --> 00:26:54,080 Speaker 1: He was a street fighter. The very public feud between 451 00:26:54,080 --> 00:26:56,119 Speaker 1: the two of them was making it hard for Dinkins 452 00:26:56,200 --> 00:26:58,880 Speaker 1: to focus on the task in hand. The letter kept 453 00:26:58,880 --> 00:26:59,360 Speaker 1: coming up. 454 00:27:00,560 --> 00:27:02,520 Speaker 4: I hope that that's the last time I will address 455 00:27:02,560 --> 00:27:05,760 Speaker 4: this subject for now, because what I want to do 456 00:27:05,880 --> 00:27:06,720 Speaker 4: is get about. 457 00:27:06,440 --> 00:27:09,000 Speaker 3: The business of government here on Staten Island. 458 00:27:10,080 --> 00:27:13,960 Speaker 1: Denkins tries to reset to his real purpose stop seceession, 459 00:27:14,560 --> 00:27:15,080 Speaker 1: and I was. 460 00:27:15,040 --> 00:27:17,320 Speaker 4: Asked, well, what do you hope to accomplish here on 461 00:27:17,359 --> 00:27:18,080 Speaker 4: Staten Island? 462 00:27:18,160 --> 00:27:21,280 Speaker 3: I said, if nothing else, If nothing else. 463 00:27:21,080 --> 00:27:23,000 Speaker 4: I hope that I can convey to the people of 464 00:27:23,040 --> 00:27:25,600 Speaker 4: Staten Island that I deeply care about them and about 465 00:27:25,640 --> 00:27:29,920 Speaker 4: all of them. If this were a political visit, why 466 00:27:30,000 --> 00:27:31,280 Speaker 4: in blazes would I come. 467 00:27:31,880 --> 00:27:34,679 Speaker 3: I mean, I know the number of votes that were cast. 468 00:27:34,440 --> 00:27:38,480 Speaker 4: For me in nineteen hundred and eighty nine, so I'm. 469 00:27:38,320 --> 00:27:39,840 Speaker 3: Not here for political reason. 470 00:27:40,440 --> 00:27:45,000 Speaker 4: If I were to come for political reason, might I 471 00:27:45,080 --> 00:27:47,480 Speaker 4: not then reason, I'll come to Staten Island for two 472 00:27:47,560 --> 00:27:51,840 Speaker 4: days because you have less than five hundred thousand people, 473 00:27:51,960 --> 00:27:54,160 Speaker 4: and they got two and a half million people in Brooklyn. 474 00:27:54,160 --> 00:27:56,120 Speaker 4: Why not go to Brooklyn for eight and nine days. 475 00:27:55,880 --> 00:27:58,159 Speaker 3: And come here for two days. But I'm here for 476 00:27:58,240 --> 00:27:58,960 Speaker 3: seven days. 477 00:28:00,320 --> 00:28:02,360 Speaker 1: At this one imagines his knees buckled. 478 00:28:02,840 --> 00:28:09,520 Speaker 4: Seven days, not in Monday to Friday, not simply Monday 479 00:28:09,520 --> 00:28:12,920 Speaker 4: to Friday, Monday through Sunday. So I don't care whether 480 00:28:12,960 --> 00:28:16,160 Speaker 4: you agree with me on all issues or not. If 481 00:28:16,200 --> 00:28:20,640 Speaker 4: you are reasonable people, you have to say to yourselves, well, 482 00:28:20,680 --> 00:28:21,960 Speaker 4: by God, he does care. 483 00:28:25,520 --> 00:28:28,399 Speaker 1: Seeming more than a little pissed off, he began his 484 00:28:28,440 --> 00:28:30,120 Speaker 1: pitch for the city of the Mosaic. 485 00:28:30,760 --> 00:28:33,840 Speaker 4: But you know, the glory of Staten Island does not 486 00:28:34,000 --> 00:28:37,520 Speaker 4: in any way confine itself to the past. In fact, 487 00:28:37,560 --> 00:28:39,920 Speaker 4: the island of the Seven Hills may well have been 488 00:28:39,960 --> 00:28:43,240 Speaker 4: the first part of New York that European explorers cited. 489 00:28:44,480 --> 00:28:47,040 Speaker 1: Dinkins has clearly had his speech writers dig deep for 490 00:28:47,120 --> 00:28:49,280 Speaker 1: some nice things to say about Staten Island. 491 00:28:50,280 --> 00:28:53,680 Speaker 4: The Staten Island Ferry oldest surviving free Black settlement in 492 00:28:53,720 --> 00:28:56,840 Speaker 4: the United States only zoo and American incidentally, to exhibit 493 00:28:57,000 --> 00:28:59,360 Speaker 4: all thirty two species of rattlesnakes. 494 00:29:01,200 --> 00:29:04,360 Speaker 1: Pouring sweat from his brow, David Dinkins limped to his 495 00:29:04,440 --> 00:29:07,920 Speaker 1: finish a line about how Staten Island maybe was the 496 00:29:07,920 --> 00:29:11,680 Speaker 1: first place his favorite sport, tennis, was played in America. 497 00:29:12,560 --> 00:29:14,560 Speaker 3: So thank you, Staten Island, you have given me that. 498 00:29:19,800 --> 00:29:21,760 Speaker 1: Finally, he addresses the elephant in the. 499 00:29:21,800 --> 00:29:26,400 Speaker 12: Room, and I hope that that I will be able 500 00:29:26,440 --> 00:29:29,200 Speaker 12: to persuade the people of Staten Island that this government, 501 00:29:30,000 --> 00:29:33,920 Speaker 12: and I am the representative of this government, that this 502 00:29:34,040 --> 00:29:36,080 Speaker 12: government does care about Staten Island. 503 00:29:36,480 --> 00:29:40,440 Speaker 4: I'll be speaking to this question of secession, but just 504 00:29:40,960 --> 00:29:45,480 Speaker 4: so to give you some advanced notice, y'all ain't going nowhere. 505 00:29:47,440 --> 00:29:50,280 Speaker 1: He was right and he was wrong all at the 506 00:29:50,320 --> 00:29:50,840 Speaker 1: same time. 507 00:29:51,880 --> 00:29:53,160 Speaker 3: God nice, you keep the faith. 508 00:29:57,680 --> 00:30:00,320 Speaker 1: And with that the mayor's seven day vis it to 509 00:30:00,360 --> 00:30:11,080 Speaker 1: the forgotten borough began. Borough President Guy Mullinary had Mayor 510 00:30:11,160 --> 00:30:14,680 Speaker 1: Dinkins trapped on Staten Island for an entire week. He 511 00:30:14,720 --> 00:30:17,480 Speaker 1: could control the narrative about many things in that time. 512 00:30:18,120 --> 00:30:21,200 Speaker 1: The dump with that lock gambit, but even more urgently, 513 00:30:21,440 --> 00:30:25,200 Speaker 1: the increasingly tense relationship between Dinkin's and the cops after 514 00:30:25,320 --> 00:30:29,240 Speaker 1: Washington Heights. Here's a reporter asking Mollinary about all that. 515 00:30:30,080 --> 00:30:32,320 Speaker 3: You think he shouldn't go for a place to the feuderal. No, 516 00:30:32,400 --> 00:30:33,960 Speaker 3: absolutely not, absolutely long. 517 00:30:34,000 --> 00:30:36,440 Speaker 7: I mean that I think basically tote we disagree with that, 518 00:30:36,480 --> 00:30:38,640 Speaker 7: And I think as the weeks go by and to 519 00:30:38,720 --> 00:30:40,480 Speaker 7: day is going by, and you'll see the reaction of 520 00:30:40,480 --> 00:30:42,000 Speaker 7: the police community, and I think you'll. 521 00:30:41,800 --> 00:30:42,760 Speaker 3: Find out that I was right. 522 00:30:44,040 --> 00:30:46,600 Speaker 1: In case you're wondering why the borough president of Staten 523 00:30:46,640 --> 00:30:48,760 Speaker 1: Island was even talking about Washington Heights. 524 00:30:49,040 --> 00:30:51,760 Speaker 7: According to Millinary, a lot of the drugs that were 525 00:30:51,800 --> 00:30:54,160 Speaker 7: sold in Washington Heights wind up in this borough. 526 00:30:55,080 --> 00:30:58,280 Speaker 1: Dinkin's toward the island all week. He kept trying to 527 00:30:58,280 --> 00:31:00,920 Speaker 1: reach higher, only to be dragged out on my reality. 528 00:31:01,440 --> 00:31:04,880 Speaker 1: He gave speeches invoking the Civil War. He quoted Lincoln 529 00:31:05,040 --> 00:31:09,000 Speaker 1: comparing Staten Island to the South, Seceeding he made his pitch. 530 00:31:10,000 --> 00:31:14,480 Speaker 1: Secession undermined the very principle of democracy. We're supposed to 531 00:31:14,520 --> 00:31:17,040 Speaker 1: be able to argue about things and come to a compromise. 532 00:31:17,400 --> 00:31:20,200 Speaker 1: You can't just leave when you don't like something. But 533 00:31:20,320 --> 00:31:22,640 Speaker 1: Staten Islanders we're having none of it. 534 00:31:23,440 --> 00:31:27,400 Speaker 2: My question is why you allow one deputy mayor to 535 00:31:27,520 --> 00:31:29,520 Speaker 2: direct you down a path of destruction. 536 00:31:32,240 --> 00:31:35,520 Speaker 1: Here he is at the local newspaper's editorial luncheon, staring 537 00:31:35,560 --> 00:31:38,240 Speaker 1: down at his plate, trying to eat. I have to 538 00:31:38,280 --> 00:31:42,239 Speaker 1: say he looks totally miserable. The path of destruction this 539 00:31:42,280 --> 00:31:44,960 Speaker 1: woman's asking him about is a reference to the dump 540 00:31:45,280 --> 00:31:48,880 Speaker 1: and how his administration had no real plans to close it. 541 00:31:51,640 --> 00:31:54,760 Speaker 4: Us genuine a minute, but just interrupt the flow, just 542 00:31:54,800 --> 00:31:57,920 Speaker 4: to sit here and listen to you give some conclusions 543 00:31:57,960 --> 00:32:00,880 Speaker 4: that are really not accurately a little painful. 544 00:32:01,240 --> 00:32:03,200 Speaker 3: I'm here because I tear and I represent all of 545 00:32:03,240 --> 00:32:03,680 Speaker 3: the people. 546 00:32:04,000 --> 00:32:06,520 Speaker 4: We have a very difficult and knotty problem with respect 547 00:32:06,560 --> 00:32:09,880 Speaker 4: to the disposal of solid waste, and experts do not 548 00:32:10,000 --> 00:32:10,840 Speaker 4: all agree. 549 00:32:10,600 --> 00:32:14,720 Speaker 1: That Dinkins was in an unwinnable situation, being accosted while 550 00:32:14,720 --> 00:32:17,120 Speaker 1: he ate his lunch, standing in the sun all around 551 00:32:17,120 --> 00:32:20,560 Speaker 1: the island, being blasted with unpleasant questions as he sweat 552 00:32:20,560 --> 00:32:21,160 Speaker 1: like crazy. 553 00:32:22,560 --> 00:32:24,720 Speaker 4: The main thing is getting out of the sun. Boy, 554 00:32:25,120 --> 00:32:29,280 Speaker 4: I cannot understand united a space inside. They just could 555 00:32:29,320 --> 00:32:32,200 Speaker 4: have been right in there, you know, in the car. 556 00:32:33,800 --> 00:32:37,120 Speaker 1: His week there was building to a climax when Dinkins 557 00:32:37,160 --> 00:32:41,440 Speaker 1: would finally visit the infamous dump fresh Kills, the largest 558 00:32:41,520 --> 00:32:45,800 Speaker 1: landfill in the world, which yes, smelled terrible, but also 559 00:32:46,040 --> 00:32:49,480 Speaker 1: seemed possibly to be highly toxic. This was the kind 560 00:32:49,520 --> 00:32:52,800 Speaker 1: of place the fastidious David Dinkins really did not want 561 00:32:52,800 --> 00:32:55,440 Speaker 1: to be, so when he took his tour by car 562 00:32:55,760 --> 00:32:58,400 Speaker 1: and then gave a press conference, it did not go 563 00:32:58,560 --> 00:33:01,640 Speaker 1: over welly. 564 00:33:00,240 --> 00:33:01,680 Speaker 7: Like you were going to get out and take a 565 00:33:01,720 --> 00:33:04,160 Speaker 7: walk around some of the landfill area everyfore, and. 566 00:33:04,160 --> 00:33:06,800 Speaker 3: I looked like, and what was that body language? How 567 00:33:06,840 --> 00:33:08,360 Speaker 3: did it it was? 568 00:33:08,400 --> 00:33:08,520 Speaker 11: How? 569 00:33:08,520 --> 00:33:09,400 Speaker 3: How did you determine? 570 00:33:09,400 --> 00:33:09,640 Speaker 2: It was? 571 00:33:09,680 --> 00:33:11,920 Speaker 7: Our understanding when the motive caate stopped and I was 572 00:33:11,920 --> 00:33:18,600 Speaker 7: going to get out and to take a walking. 573 00:33:16,240 --> 00:33:20,120 Speaker 1: Mulinary roasted Dinkins about it all in the press quote 574 00:33:20,520 --> 00:33:23,280 Speaker 1: after forty years of Staten Islanders living near an ever 575 00:33:23,400 --> 00:33:27,320 Speaker 1: increasingly large dump, David Dinkin spends forty minutes reviewing his 576 00:33:27,400 --> 00:33:31,720 Speaker 1: own data and declares it's safe. The message was clear, 577 00:33:32,400 --> 00:33:35,000 Speaker 1: too clean to walk around trash Island. Huh, mister mayor. 578 00:33:35,840 --> 00:33:37,960 Speaker 7: I was wondering what it was that it made you 579 00:33:38,040 --> 00:33:38,720 Speaker 7: shape your mind. 580 00:33:39,560 --> 00:33:42,080 Speaker 4: What I'm doing is has taken me to be briefed 581 00:33:42,120 --> 00:33:45,160 Speaker 4: by Commissioners Lloyd and Jurling, which we have been able 582 00:33:45,160 --> 00:33:46,680 Speaker 4: to do, and and. 583 00:33:47,080 --> 00:33:50,600 Speaker 3: Throughout the ride, I was getting breathed as we were writing. 584 00:33:55,040 --> 00:33:57,720 Speaker 1: The week soon ended and Dinkins went back to Manhattan, 585 00:33:58,040 --> 00:34:02,600 Speaker 1: seeming to have made matters worse. And what would soon 586 00:34:02,680 --> 00:34:07,360 Speaker 1: become clear is that Moullinary had much bigger plans, not 587 00:34:07,480 --> 00:34:10,680 Speaker 1: for Staten Island to leave the city, but for Staten 588 00:34:10,719 --> 00:34:18,120 Speaker 1: Island to take it over entirely. When I started reporting 589 00:34:18,120 --> 00:34:21,560 Speaker 1: this series, a historian told me America happens first in 590 00:34:21,600 --> 00:34:24,920 Speaker 1: New York City, And now that I spent way too 591 00:34:24,960 --> 00:34:27,000 Speaker 1: long learning about a borough that did its best to 592 00:34:27,080 --> 00:34:33,279 Speaker 1: leave that city, I have to say I agree. This 593 00:34:33,320 --> 00:34:36,279 Speaker 1: is a story about what happens when neighbors feel like 594 00:34:36,280 --> 00:34:38,799 Speaker 1: they have nothing in common anymore, when they had these 595 00:34:38,840 --> 00:34:41,880 Speaker 1: irreconcilable differences, and they just don't think they can be 596 00:34:41,920 --> 00:34:45,880 Speaker 1: part of the same place anymore. Back in the nineteen nineties, 597 00:34:46,000 --> 00:34:48,200 Speaker 1: a chess game was being played for, yes, the fate 598 00:34:48,280 --> 00:34:50,759 Speaker 1: of the largest city in America, but I think the 599 00:34:50,760 --> 00:34:54,239 Speaker 1: stakes of it are much higher because the more I 600 00:34:54,280 --> 00:34:57,480 Speaker 1: looked into the story of Staten Island's secession and where 601 00:34:57,520 --> 00:35:00,960 Speaker 1: that split came from, the more I understood how we 602 00:35:01,040 --> 00:35:08,040 Speaker 1: got to where we are today. Coming up on the 603 00:35:08,040 --> 00:35:09,640 Speaker 1: Staten Island problem. 604 00:35:10,080 --> 00:35:12,480 Speaker 7: Will you trust your friends and neighbors and the people 605 00:35:12,480 --> 00:35:16,120 Speaker 7: in Staten Island or you trust the people five miles overseas. 606 00:35:17,360 --> 00:35:19,400 Speaker 13: There's a lot of Donald Trump and the Gui Moultiner 607 00:35:19,640 --> 00:35:24,480 Speaker 13: style of politics. They're they're very dominating, and they're intolerant 608 00:35:25,200 --> 00:35:28,840 Speaker 13: of people who disagree with them, Absolutely intolerant. 609 00:35:29,840 --> 00:35:33,040 Speaker 10: For Rudy Giuliani to urge them on, as it were, 610 00:35:33,480 --> 00:35:35,800 Speaker 10: demonstrates an irresponsibility on his behalf. 611 00:35:36,640 --> 00:35:39,640 Speaker 5: Can't you just deal with the secession thing when you're 612 00:35:39,640 --> 00:35:40,240 Speaker 5: at these debates? 613 00:35:40,239 --> 00:35:42,360 Speaker 1: You got to turn a wedding into a secession debate? 614 00:35:43,640 --> 00:35:46,200 Speaker 1: Did you think of it when you when January sixth happened? 615 00:35:46,239 --> 00:35:51,720 Speaker 8: Absolutely? There was much chatter among the Dinkins alumni about 616 00:35:52,000 --> 00:35:52,759 Speaker 8: three parents. 617 00:35:52,760 --> 00:35:53,800 Speaker 1: We've seen this before. 618 00:35:54,200 --> 00:36:10,799 Speaker 11: Yeah. 619 00:36:11,200 --> 00:36:13,600 Speaker 1: The Staten Island Problem is written and reported by me 620 00:36:13,920 --> 00:36:17,600 Speaker 1: Ben Mattapaffrey. It was produced by Lucy Sullivan with Nina 621 00:36:17,600 --> 00:36:21,600 Speaker 1: Bird Lawrence. Our editor is Karen Schakerjee. Our executive producer 622 00:36:21,719 --> 00:36:25,320 Speaker 1: is Jacob Smith. Fact checking by Sam Russick, Sound design 623 00:36:25,360 --> 00:36:29,560 Speaker 1: and mastering by Jake Gorsky. Original music by Stellwagon, Symfinet, 624 00:36:29,920 --> 00:36:33,680 Speaker 1: Luis Gara and Jake Gorsky. Special thanks to Todd Reynolds 625 00:36:33,680 --> 00:36:36,640 Speaker 1: for his track The Solution from the album Powder Burrow, 626 00:36:37,000 --> 00:36:39,000 Speaker 1: and to the College of Staten Island and the New 627 00:36:39,080 --> 00:36:42,240 Speaker 1: York City Municipal Archives for all of the amazing tape. 628 00:36:42,840 --> 00:36:55,240 Speaker 1: And thanks of course to Malcolm Gladwell. I'm Ben Mattaphaffrey, 629 00:37:00,360 --> 00:37:00,800 Speaker 1: suit of