1 00:00:00,280 --> 00:00:07,560 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio news. 2 00:00:10,680 --> 00:00:15,000 Speaker 2: Marcy step all this lumbers lumber that got out. 3 00:00:15,240 --> 00:00:17,759 Speaker 3: When you walk into the J. W. Jones Lumber Company, 4 00:00:17,920 --> 00:00:20,360 Speaker 3: one of the first things you'll probably notice is how 5 00:00:20,360 --> 00:00:21,079 Speaker 3: noisy it is. 6 00:00:22,640 --> 00:00:25,280 Speaker 4: You go in. You put in ear plugs. This place 7 00:00:25,400 --> 00:00:28,760 Speaker 4: is loud, right, and there's a kind of real cacoffiny. 8 00:00:33,280 --> 00:00:36,960 Speaker 3: JW. Jones is a sawmill in Elizabeth City, North Carolina. 9 00:00:37,520 --> 00:00:40,960 Speaker 3: From stripping off the bark and sawing to trimming, sorting, 10 00:00:41,040 --> 00:00:44,000 Speaker 3: and drying the wooden kilns. Every day, the mill turns 11 00:00:44,080 --> 00:00:48,080 Speaker 3: dozens of logs into processed lumber boards, kind of used 12 00:00:48,120 --> 00:00:50,960 Speaker 3: in the visible wood in a house, like your baseboards 13 00:00:51,080 --> 00:00:54,960 Speaker 3: or stair treads. Bloomberg Economics reporter Sean Donnin took a 14 00:00:55,000 --> 00:00:58,200 Speaker 3: trip to North Carolina, to the Old North State with 15 00:00:58,240 --> 00:01:01,240 Speaker 3: our producer Rachel Lewis Chrisky to meet the Joneses, the 16 00:01:01,320 --> 00:01:02,920 Speaker 3: family that runs the business. 17 00:01:03,200 --> 00:01:05,440 Speaker 4: It's a mill that has been there and in this 18 00:01:05,640 --> 00:01:10,800 Speaker 4: family since the nineteen thirties. The JW. Jones Lumber Company 19 00:01:11,280 --> 00:01:14,360 Speaker 4: focuses really on southern Pine. 20 00:01:14,880 --> 00:01:17,280 Speaker 3: The Jones family has been in the lumber business since 21 00:01:17,360 --> 00:01:21,800 Speaker 3: eighteen eighty two. Today, brothers Wilson and Stephen co owned 22 00:01:21,800 --> 00:01:25,520 Speaker 3: two lumber mills. Stephen runs J W. Jones and Wilson 23 00:01:25,720 --> 00:01:29,360 Speaker 3: runs Mackie's Ferry sawmill. And while the JW Mill was 24 00:01:29,440 --> 00:01:33,800 Speaker 3: as loud as ever, Mackie's Ferry sounded very different. 25 00:01:36,600 --> 00:01:41,039 Speaker 1: I've grown all my life in lumber business, and to 26 00:01:41,120 --> 00:01:47,920 Speaker 1: hear nature at a sawmill, I think for any lumberman 27 00:01:49,080 --> 00:01:52,560 Speaker 1: is not natural. I don't want to be overly dramatic, 28 00:01:52,640 --> 00:01:57,720 Speaker 1: but in a way it's as unnervn as watching a 29 00:01:57,760 --> 00:02:01,600 Speaker 1: loved one take their breath. 30 00:02:07,480 --> 00:02:11,200 Speaker 3: On July first, the brothers decided to close down Mackie's Ferry, 31 00:02:11,800 --> 00:02:16,600 Speaker 3: the tipping factor President Donald Trump's so called Liberation Day tariffs. 32 00:02:17,080 --> 00:02:20,400 Speaker 1: When I say Liberation Day, I cannot put enough snark 33 00:02:21,440 --> 00:02:25,000 Speaker 1: in sarcasm in my voice, because we weren't liberated. 34 00:02:25,919 --> 00:02:29,160 Speaker 3: Wilson said, they've mothballed it, meaning they're maintaining the mill 35 00:02:29,200 --> 00:02:33,000 Speaker 3: for potential use or maybe to sell it, but altogether 36 00:02:33,080 --> 00:02:36,440 Speaker 3: its production has shut down, and the fifty people who 37 00:02:36,440 --> 00:02:38,400 Speaker 3: worked at that mill were laid off. 38 00:02:40,040 --> 00:02:43,079 Speaker 1: Liberation Day did at the time it had them near 39 00:02:43,680 --> 00:02:47,920 Speaker 1: liberated me from our business, and in essence it has 40 00:02:49,600 --> 00:02:50,799 Speaker 1: I'm bitter about that. 41 00:02:53,440 --> 00:02:56,680 Speaker 3: After Trump and ound sweeping tariffs on April second, several 42 00:02:56,680 --> 00:03:02,200 Speaker 3: countries responded with retaliatory tariffs, including and that hit Mackie's 43 00:03:02,200 --> 00:03:05,959 Speaker 3: Fairy hard Until recently, seventy to eighty percent of the 44 00:03:06,000 --> 00:03:08,639 Speaker 3: wood coming from the Mackie's Ferry sawmill was going to 45 00:03:08,760 --> 00:03:13,079 Speaker 3: China and Vietnam, a primary market for US hardwood, while 46 00:03:13,080 --> 00:03:15,680 Speaker 3: most of what comes out of the brothers' other mill, softwood, 47 00:03:16,000 --> 00:03:19,680 Speaker 3: ends up in the United States. After calculating the staggering 48 00:03:19,760 --> 00:03:23,080 Speaker 3: cost of exporting lumber, the Jones brothers decided it was 49 00:03:23,120 --> 00:03:26,640 Speaker 3: time to stop production at Macki's. About a third of 50 00:03:26,680 --> 00:03:29,279 Speaker 3: their overall business revenue disappeared. 51 00:03:29,840 --> 00:03:32,960 Speaker 4: This is not just a story about a sawmill in 52 00:03:33,080 --> 00:03:37,080 Speaker 4: North Carolina and a little crossroads of a place. This 53 00:03:37,160 --> 00:03:39,520 Speaker 4: is a story about what's going on in the lot 54 00:03:39,560 --> 00:03:40,920 Speaker 4: of rural America right now. 55 00:03:41,120 --> 00:03:44,960 Speaker 3: Since April, Trump's tariffs have shocked supply chains and raised 56 00:03:44,960 --> 00:03:49,400 Speaker 3: prices of both imported and domestic goods. While President Trump 57 00:03:49,480 --> 00:03:53,880 Speaker 3: has promised a manufacturing renaissance, between April and August, the 58 00:03:54,040 --> 00:03:57,920 Speaker 3: US actually lost forty two thousand manufacturing jobs. 59 00:03:59,000 --> 00:04:01,640 Speaker 4: They are the first generation in five to have to 60 00:04:01,720 --> 00:04:05,760 Speaker 4: close something down in this lumber industry. Wilson's a man 61 00:04:05,800 --> 00:04:09,440 Speaker 4: in the sixties. He's a storyteller, but he's also a 62 00:04:09,520 --> 00:04:12,480 Speaker 4: proud man, and he had tears in his eyes as 63 00:04:12,480 --> 00:04:13,360 Speaker 4: he was describing this. 64 00:04:13,920 --> 00:04:16,480 Speaker 1: In the old days, you would hear the chipper, we'd 65 00:04:16,520 --> 00:04:19,240 Speaker 1: have the air compressors going, you'd have the roar of 66 00:04:19,320 --> 00:04:22,360 Speaker 1: the fans of the kills that ran twenty four to seven, 67 00:04:22,480 --> 00:04:24,479 Speaker 1: and you'd come in here and you'd hear all that 68 00:04:24,640 --> 00:04:31,719 Speaker 1: throaty noise or that hum and roar. And now it's 69 00:04:31,839 --> 00:04:33,880 Speaker 1: kind of depressing because you can get out of your 70 00:04:33,880 --> 00:04:35,880 Speaker 1: car and shut the door and then you hear the 71 00:04:35,920 --> 00:04:36,440 Speaker 1: wind blow. 72 00:04:44,000 --> 00:04:45,960 Speaker 3: I'm David Gerrutt, and this is the Big Take from 73 00:04:45,960 --> 00:04:48,800 Speaker 3: Bloomberg News Today. On the show, we head to North 74 00:04:48,839 --> 00:04:52,560 Speaker 3: Carolina to understand how President Trump's trade war played a 75 00:04:52,640 --> 00:04:55,919 Speaker 3: role in the closure of a family run sawmill, and 76 00:04:56,000 --> 00:04:59,240 Speaker 3: how his policies are affecting one of the oldest industries 77 00:04:59,320 --> 00:05:09,000 Speaker 3: in America. The Jones family has bet in the lumber 78 00:05:09,040 --> 00:05:12,000 Speaker 3: business in North Carolina going back nearly one hundred and 79 00:05:12,120 --> 00:05:12,960 Speaker 3: fifty years. 80 00:05:13,560 --> 00:05:16,159 Speaker 1: I've heard my mom tell stories about when I was born. 81 00:05:17,040 --> 00:05:19,479 Speaker 1: They brought me home from the hospital and went knocking 82 00:05:19,520 --> 00:05:22,240 Speaker 1: on the door, and four big old saw meal guys 83 00:05:22,279 --> 00:05:24,680 Speaker 1: out here, you know, dirty and everything like that. So head, 84 00:05:25,360 --> 00:05:28,520 Speaker 1: miss Margaret, we want to come see the little boss man. 85 00:05:28,760 --> 00:05:31,880 Speaker 3: Wilson Jones's memories of growing up are full of sawdust, 86 00:05:32,120 --> 00:05:34,120 Speaker 3: childhood games and wood chippings. 87 00:05:34,480 --> 00:05:37,280 Speaker 1: We'd come out here and we'd sweep, or we'd throw 88 00:05:37,440 --> 00:05:41,360 Speaker 1: sawdust into bar, or we'd play in the shaven's. 89 00:05:40,839 --> 00:05:46,039 Speaker 5: House when we were a little He's got a scarbody's cheeks. 90 00:05:46,360 --> 00:05:46,960 Speaker 6: He's older. 91 00:05:47,080 --> 00:05:48,120 Speaker 1: He used to beat up on me. 92 00:05:48,720 --> 00:05:51,320 Speaker 5: So I stabbed him with a pitch for and I 93 00:05:51,320 --> 00:05:52,640 Speaker 5: can go out there and show you where. 94 00:05:52,520 --> 00:05:53,080 Speaker 1: He did it too. 95 00:05:57,000 --> 00:05:59,960 Speaker 3: The US lumber industry as we know it today started 96 00:06:00,160 --> 00:06:03,760 Speaker 3: when settlers in America were still under British rule. Back 97 00:06:03,800 --> 00:06:07,120 Speaker 3: in the early seventeen hundreds, North Carolina alone was producing 98 00:06:07,160 --> 00:06:10,800 Speaker 3: over fifty thousand British pounds worth of lumber annually. That's 99 00:06:10,800 --> 00:06:13,960 Speaker 3: equivalent to about eleven million US dollars a year today. 100 00:06:14,800 --> 00:06:18,080 Speaker 3: North Carolina became the primary source of naval stores, the 101 00:06:18,120 --> 00:06:23,840 Speaker 3: material used to build and maintain British ships. After the 102 00:06:23,960 --> 00:06:27,520 Speaker 3: US won its independence and expanded farther west. The country's 103 00:06:27,560 --> 00:06:30,200 Speaker 3: forests would fuel the industry for centuries. 104 00:06:30,520 --> 00:06:33,120 Speaker 7: If they hadn't found what here, there wouldn't have been 105 00:06:33,160 --> 00:06:36,479 Speaker 7: in America. In the building of America would play a 106 00:06:36,600 --> 00:06:37,599 Speaker 7: mighty part. 107 00:06:38,000 --> 00:06:40,400 Speaker 3: But consumption of lumber in the US peaked in the 108 00:06:40,480 --> 00:06:44,680 Speaker 3: late nineteen eighties that it's been dipping ever since. That's 109 00:06:44,760 --> 00:06:47,599 Speaker 3: led to a steady decline in the number of US sawmills, 110 00:06:47,800 --> 00:06:52,599 Speaker 3: many of which are small, family owned operations, and American 111 00:06:52,640 --> 00:06:56,960 Speaker 3: consumer tastes have shifted toward cheaper furniture made from particle 112 00:06:56,960 --> 00:07:00,400 Speaker 3: board MDF or laminet commonly used by company is like 113 00:07:00,440 --> 00:07:01,800 Speaker 3: Ikea and Amazon. 114 00:07:02,160 --> 00:07:04,800 Speaker 1: My wife and I have a young couple that we've 115 00:07:04,800 --> 00:07:07,720 Speaker 1: talked to. They were so happy that they got a 116 00:07:07,839 --> 00:07:10,520 Speaker 1: new sofa from the new house from Amazon for four 117 00:07:10,600 --> 00:07:15,200 Speaker 1: hundred dollars. But I understand, you know that people like akia, 118 00:07:15,840 --> 00:07:18,960 Speaker 1: which is made, you know, with particle board and putting together, 119 00:07:19,120 --> 00:07:23,520 Speaker 1: compared to you know, a custom built cabinet or something 120 00:07:23,600 --> 00:07:27,600 Speaker 1: like that. I don't have a problem with changing consumer taste. 121 00:07:28,440 --> 00:07:32,040 Speaker 1: I don't have a problem that there's a different technology 122 00:07:32,120 --> 00:07:36,640 Speaker 1: that is better than what we have or that makes 123 00:07:36,720 --> 00:07:38,680 Speaker 1: us obsolete. I don't have a problem with that. I 124 00:07:38,680 --> 00:07:41,200 Speaker 1: have a problem with a government policy making us obsolete. 125 00:07:41,840 --> 00:07:44,960 Speaker 3: Even before Trump's tariffs were on the scene, US hardwood 126 00:07:45,040 --> 00:07:50,400 Speaker 3: lumber was still in a tough spot. Mackie's Fairy Mill, 127 00:07:50,560 --> 00:07:53,480 Speaker 3: which the Jones family bought in the nineteen eighties, initially 128 00:07:53,480 --> 00:07:57,040 Speaker 3: served North Carolina's furniture industry, but when that industry started 129 00:07:57,080 --> 00:08:00,000 Speaker 3: facing competition from China and going offshore in the ninety 130 00:08:00,000 --> 00:08:03,120 Speaker 3: ten nineties, their market changed and by the early two 131 00:08:03,160 --> 00:08:07,040 Speaker 3: thousands they were sending most of their lumber overseas. By 132 00:08:07,080 --> 00:08:09,360 Speaker 3: two thousand and eight, as the financial crisis hit the 133 00:08:09,360 --> 00:08:12,120 Speaker 3: housing industry and the main market for their softwood mill, 134 00:08:12,600 --> 00:08:16,040 Speaker 3: the hardwood operation was keeping the family business afloat by 135 00:08:16,040 --> 00:08:17,960 Speaker 3: selling most of its output to China. 136 00:08:18,400 --> 00:08:21,200 Speaker 4: These are narrow margin businesses. There is not a huge 137 00:08:21,200 --> 00:08:24,040 Speaker 4: premium on this wood. And in fact, you know, one 138 00:08:24,040 --> 00:08:28,320 Speaker 4: of the ironies of the global economy is that Wilson 139 00:08:28,400 --> 00:08:31,240 Speaker 4: Jones will tell you it costs more to ship a 140 00:08:31,320 --> 00:08:34,560 Speaker 4: load of lumber to the port in Norfolk than it 141 00:08:34,640 --> 00:08:37,280 Speaker 4: does to ship it from Norfolk to port in China. 142 00:08:37,840 --> 00:08:41,240 Speaker 3: For a while, that approach was working. According to Wilson, 143 00:08:41,360 --> 00:08:44,440 Speaker 3: the Mackie's Ferry Mill was regularly shipping millions of dollars 144 00:08:44,520 --> 00:08:47,840 Speaker 3: in hardwood to their biggest customers in China and Vietnam, 145 00:08:48,480 --> 00:08:52,040 Speaker 3: the Joneses had moved with the times. By twenty seventeen, 146 00:08:52,360 --> 00:08:55,600 Speaker 3: China became the largest single market for exported lumber from 147 00:08:55,640 --> 00:08:59,319 Speaker 3: the US, followed by Mexico and Canada. And when the 148 00:08:59,400 --> 00:09:02,440 Speaker 3: US imposed an escalating series of tariffs on China in 149 00:09:02,480 --> 00:09:06,560 Speaker 3: twenty eighteen during Trump's first term, the jones Is managed 150 00:09:06,600 --> 00:09:09,599 Speaker 3: to weather the fallout, even as China retaliated. 151 00:09:09,960 --> 00:09:11,839 Speaker 1: We just kind of took it with our lumps and said, 152 00:09:11,880 --> 00:09:13,679 Speaker 1: all right, you know what, I'll tell you what. We 153 00:09:13,720 --> 00:09:17,160 Speaker 1: bore half of it of the tariff, and in our 154 00:09:17,200 --> 00:09:20,000 Speaker 1: customer they bore half of it. And that was kind 155 00:09:20,000 --> 00:09:21,280 Speaker 1: of an industry wide thing. 156 00:09:23,480 --> 00:09:27,160 Speaker 3: But Trump's second term tariffs were even more aggressive. On 157 00:09:27,240 --> 00:09:30,760 Speaker 3: April second, the President announced a higher thirty four percent 158 00:09:30,800 --> 00:09:34,640 Speaker 3: tariff on Chinese imports. China, along with several other US 159 00:09:34,720 --> 00:09:39,000 Speaker 3: trading partners, retaliated again. It would kick off a rapidly 160 00:09:39,160 --> 00:09:42,920 Speaker 3: escalating trade war that sent shock waves through global markets. 161 00:09:43,240 --> 00:09:45,240 Speaker 7: I said, where are we now. We're at one hundred 162 00:09:45,240 --> 00:09:47,480 Speaker 7: and forty five percent. I said, woll that's high. 163 00:09:48,160 --> 00:09:48,600 Speaker 4: That's hig. 164 00:09:49,080 --> 00:09:51,319 Speaker 7: They were doing no business whatsoever, and they were having 165 00:09:51,320 --> 00:09:53,120 Speaker 7: a lot of problems. We were very nice to China. 166 00:09:53,160 --> 00:09:54,480 Speaker 7: I don't know if they're going to be nice to us, 167 00:09:54,520 --> 00:09:55,800 Speaker 7: but we were very nice to China. 168 00:09:56,720 --> 00:09:59,760 Speaker 3: For American hardwood, the reciprocal tariffs got as high as 169 00:09:59,800 --> 00:10:01,600 Speaker 3: one one hundred and twenty five percent. 170 00:10:02,440 --> 00:10:04,320 Speaker 4: What took you over the edge here? What caused you 171 00:10:04,360 --> 00:10:06,600 Speaker 4: to shut this down? 172 00:10:07,280 --> 00:10:13,080 Speaker 1: Honestly, the market conditions in relation to the retaliatory tariffs 173 00:10:13,120 --> 00:10:16,160 Speaker 1: that we have in China. They put the final nails 174 00:10:16,160 --> 00:10:20,280 Speaker 1: in the coffin. But there are other inherent issues. There's 175 00:10:20,320 --> 00:10:23,000 Speaker 1: a raw material issue. I didn't do a good enough 176 00:10:23,120 --> 00:10:27,240 Speaker 1: job getting some of our people to pivot. And then 177 00:10:27,800 --> 00:10:33,960 Speaker 1: there are real capital issues with being able to modernize 178 00:10:34,240 --> 00:10:36,640 Speaker 1: and being able to modernize efficiently. 179 00:10:36,920 --> 00:10:38,839 Speaker 4: But the final nail in the coffin was. 180 00:10:38,800 --> 00:10:40,400 Speaker 1: When we couldn't sell the lumber. 181 00:10:41,000 --> 00:10:44,160 Speaker 3: When President Trump imposed tariffs. Back in April, wood from 182 00:10:44,160 --> 00:10:47,480 Speaker 3: Mackie's Ferry worth some five hundred thousand dollars was on 183 00:10:47,559 --> 00:10:50,040 Speaker 3: its way to China as part of a regular shipment. 184 00:10:50,720 --> 00:10:54,320 Speaker 3: Within days, that shipment was facing tariffs worth more than 185 00:10:54,360 --> 00:10:55,200 Speaker 3: the wood itself. 186 00:10:56,600 --> 00:10:59,800 Speaker 4: President Trump pulled up here today and you walked to 187 00:10:59,800 --> 00:11:00,760 Speaker 4: me in to the sawmill. 188 00:11:01,440 --> 00:11:04,080 Speaker 1: What would you tell him, well, I'd like to say, 189 00:11:04,120 --> 00:11:07,200 Speaker 1: what the heck Actually, I'd like to say about nine 190 00:11:07,240 --> 00:11:12,800 Speaker 1: different explinatis. But you know, President Trump, gee, I understand 191 00:11:12,840 --> 00:11:15,200 Speaker 1: what you're trying to do, but you're on a fool's 192 00:11:15,240 --> 00:11:19,959 Speaker 1: mission and you're not helping out a few. You're hurting 193 00:11:20,000 --> 00:11:24,679 Speaker 1: a lot. If you put all these little communities together, 194 00:11:24,880 --> 00:11:31,320 Speaker 1: from Maine over to Michigan down to Mississippi and Alabama, 195 00:11:31,600 --> 00:11:36,160 Speaker 1: it's having the same effect on these small little communities, 196 00:11:36,440 --> 00:11:39,840 Speaker 1: from the guy that's just stacking lumber to the guy 197 00:11:39,880 --> 00:11:42,760 Speaker 1: that's sawing. Don't even care about the guy that's the 198 00:11:42,800 --> 00:11:44,840 Speaker 1: mill owner. What about those guys? 199 00:11:46,000 --> 00:11:48,640 Speaker 3: The White House did not respond to a request for comment. 200 00:11:49,960 --> 00:11:53,880 Speaker 3: As the Brothers criticized Trump's trade policies, Sean asked them 201 00:11:53,960 --> 00:11:56,600 Speaker 3: if they voted for him and for those trade policies 202 00:11:56,600 --> 00:11:58,800 Speaker 3: to begin with, I voted for Trump. 203 00:12:00,120 --> 00:12:01,360 Speaker 4: Was there wasn't an alternative? 204 00:12:02,040 --> 00:12:02,920 Speaker 1: I mean at all? 205 00:12:03,360 --> 00:12:05,160 Speaker 4: Did you vote for him all the way back to 206 00:12:05,160 --> 00:12:06,080 Speaker 4: twenty sixteen years? 207 00:12:06,440 --> 00:12:09,160 Speaker 1: I voted for Trump all three times? Yep, I did. 208 00:12:09,360 --> 00:12:13,280 Speaker 1: But I literally was into voting booth and I wrapped 209 00:12:13,280 --> 00:12:16,680 Speaker 1: my knuckles and the Trump would hurt more. And that 210 00:12:16,800 --> 00:12:19,760 Speaker 1: was the one that I voted for because it was 211 00:12:19,800 --> 00:12:23,600 Speaker 1: just it was so disgusting and I hate to say that, 212 00:12:23,679 --> 00:12:25,720 Speaker 1: but that's literally how I made that choice. 213 00:12:25,920 --> 00:12:27,560 Speaker 4: Okay, so you voted for the man. 214 00:12:27,840 --> 00:12:29,000 Speaker 1: You both voted for the man. 215 00:12:29,200 --> 00:12:34,160 Speaker 4: The man's policies have contributed that you're going out of business. 216 00:12:34,520 --> 00:12:35,600 Speaker 4: Do you have any regrets that. 217 00:12:35,600 --> 00:12:36,480 Speaker 1: I voted for the man? 218 00:12:41,080 --> 00:12:44,160 Speaker 3: After the break, how the closure of mackews Ferry Sawmill 219 00:12:44,240 --> 00:12:47,640 Speaker 3: could impact the area's economy, and how Wilson and Stephen 220 00:12:47,960 --> 00:13:03,000 Speaker 3: feel about President Trump and his policies today. For years, 221 00:13:03,200 --> 00:13:06,719 Speaker 3: Mackie's Faery Sawmill in North Carolina relied on exporting its 222 00:13:06,720 --> 00:13:09,840 Speaker 3: goods to China and Vietnam after a dip in domestic 223 00:13:09,880 --> 00:13:13,520 Speaker 3: demand for its high quality hardwood. But President Trump's trade 224 00:13:13,559 --> 00:13:16,080 Speaker 3: war with China dealt a blow that the mills owners 225 00:13:16,080 --> 00:13:18,920 Speaker 3: say they couldn't come back from. As part of the 226 00:13:18,960 --> 00:13:22,760 Speaker 3: administration's efforts to bolster some industries affected by tariffs, the 227 00:13:22,960 --> 00:13:27,559 Speaker 3: US has prioritized bailouts for agriculture soybeans over assistance for 228 00:13:27,640 --> 00:13:29,200 Speaker 3: other industries like lumber. 229 00:13:29,360 --> 00:13:33,280 Speaker 7: Tremendous amounts of the soybeans and other farm products are 230 00:13:33,280 --> 00:13:35,360 Speaker 7: going to be purchased immediately, starting. 231 00:13:35,040 --> 00:13:38,839 Speaker 3: Comedialy Wilson Jones says, some of the farmers who might 232 00:13:38,840 --> 00:13:42,040 Speaker 3: benefit from that are relatives, but that across the board, 233 00:13:42,200 --> 00:13:45,240 Speaker 3: from soybeans to lumber, they want something more. 234 00:13:45,640 --> 00:13:49,400 Speaker 1: Year Main Street and you're talking about Main Street in Columbus, Ohio. 235 00:13:49,480 --> 00:13:52,160 Speaker 1: You're not talking about Main Street and Ropert North Carolina. 236 00:13:52,760 --> 00:13:57,360 Speaker 1: I can say my relatives that are infarming, they don't 237 00:13:57,360 --> 00:13:59,760 Speaker 1: want to bail out, and I would be willing to 238 00:13:59,800 --> 00:14:04,679 Speaker 1: beat my industry colleagues in the hardwood lumber industry. They 239 00:14:04,760 --> 00:14:08,400 Speaker 1: don't want to bail out. They want access to their 240 00:14:08,440 --> 00:14:11,080 Speaker 1: markets and that door has been shut. 241 00:14:12,320 --> 00:14:16,120 Speaker 2: Well, I'm killing Tessen. I'm the Economic and Strategic Development 242 00:14:16,160 --> 00:14:17,840 Speaker 2: director from Washington County. 243 00:14:17,679 --> 00:14:20,640 Speaker 3: In the county where Mackie's Ferry is located. The damage 244 00:14:20,680 --> 00:14:23,240 Speaker 3: from the mills closure has already been done. 245 00:14:23,360 --> 00:14:27,120 Speaker 2: It is a big blow, especially now, you know after COVID. 246 00:14:27,720 --> 00:14:30,480 Speaker 2: Everybody kind of was install during COVID, but then just 247 00:14:30,520 --> 00:14:33,640 Speaker 2: to see one of your longest standing businesses closes doors. 248 00:14:34,040 --> 00:14:36,520 Speaker 2: You know, fifty guys are gonnaep men and women are 249 00:14:36,520 --> 00:14:39,200 Speaker 2: going to lose their jobs. Yeah, that is a blow. 250 00:14:39,920 --> 00:14:42,160 Speaker 3: Kelly says. Back in the mid two thousands, the Reach 251 00:14:42,200 --> 00:14:45,640 Speaker 3: and lost around two hundred jobs when Canadian paper company 252 00:14:45,680 --> 00:14:48,840 Speaker 3: Domtar merged with Warehouser, the owner of a local pulp mill, 253 00:14:49,400 --> 00:14:52,960 Speaker 3: and the mill closure like this is another head. Mackie's 254 00:14:53,000 --> 00:14:55,600 Speaker 3: Ferry was one of the largest private employers in the county. 255 00:14:55,880 --> 00:14:58,080 Speaker 3: Kelly doesn't know what this will cost the local economy 256 00:14:58,160 --> 00:14:59,720 Speaker 3: yet in lost business taxes. 257 00:15:00,120 --> 00:15:02,640 Speaker 2: It's not as a significant blow as the Warehouser blow 258 00:15:02,880 --> 00:15:05,200 Speaker 2: was for us, but it's still one of those ones 259 00:15:05,240 --> 00:15:07,240 Speaker 2: that's going to be felt in the community. 260 00:15:07,360 --> 00:15:08,360 Speaker 4: So that was twenty years ago. 261 00:15:08,440 --> 00:15:12,280 Speaker 2: We still haven't recovered from that. People want stability, and 262 00:15:12,320 --> 00:15:15,600 Speaker 2: then when you have major companies like Mackie's, who's been 263 00:15:15,640 --> 00:15:17,880 Speaker 2: here for over one hundred years, close, what does that 264 00:15:18,240 --> 00:15:21,840 Speaker 2: say to the business viability here in Washington County? And 265 00:15:21,920 --> 00:15:24,920 Speaker 2: I know we don't want that to be our message, 266 00:15:25,200 --> 00:15:27,440 Speaker 2: but it's just one of those things where all of 267 00:15:27,480 --> 00:15:30,160 Speaker 2: these rule and small communities are facing some of these 268 00:15:30,200 --> 00:15:30,960 Speaker 2: same things. 269 00:15:31,520 --> 00:15:34,120 Speaker 3: The Supreme Court heard arguments earlier this month on the 270 00:15:34,200 --> 00:15:37,120 Speaker 3: legality of the tariffs. Lower courts have ruled that they 271 00:15:37,120 --> 00:15:40,880 Speaker 3: were illegal, and Sean says it's still unclear what restitution 272 00:15:40,920 --> 00:15:43,680 Speaker 3: would take place if the Supreme Court agrees. 273 00:15:43,640 --> 00:15:47,400 Speaker 4: Not all of that economic damage, if you talk to economists, 274 00:15:47,520 --> 00:15:51,760 Speaker 4: people in business, small business people, is going to be 275 00:15:53,240 --> 00:15:57,960 Speaker 4: fixed immediately. There is no easy solution to repair that. 276 00:15:58,720 --> 00:16:04,080 Speaker 4: But for the Jones brothers, this is kind of too late. 277 00:16:05,120 --> 00:16:08,520 Speaker 4: The story of tariffs is often the story of unintended consequences. 278 00:16:09,560 --> 00:16:12,800 Speaker 4: Donald Trump did not intend to cause the shutdown of 279 00:16:12,880 --> 00:16:16,160 Speaker 4: a saw mill in North Carolina when he imposed these 280 00:16:16,200 --> 00:16:20,960 Speaker 4: tariffs on China. He was trying to rebalance an economic relationship. 281 00:16:21,240 --> 00:16:23,200 Speaker 4: In his mind, these tariffs are going to help bring 282 00:16:23,280 --> 00:16:27,080 Speaker 4: back manufacturing jobs. But the story of tariff's through history 283 00:16:27,120 --> 00:16:34,920 Speaker 4: has always been that they lead to retaliation and unintended consequences. 284 00:16:36,440 --> 00:16:37,480 Speaker 4: Do you have any regrets? 285 00:16:37,560 --> 00:16:40,760 Speaker 1: I voted to the man, there are some things I 286 00:16:40,800 --> 00:16:44,160 Speaker 1: regret about voting for President Trump. Yes, one hundred percent. 287 00:16:44,720 --> 00:16:47,520 Speaker 1: Trade policies one of them, even though that I wish 288 00:16:47,520 --> 00:16:50,560 Speaker 1: he could have moderated his tone. Well, I understand you 289 00:16:50,600 --> 00:16:52,360 Speaker 1: have to do one thing to get elected and then 290 00:16:52,440 --> 00:16:54,320 Speaker 1: something else, but I wish it hadn't have turned out 291 00:16:54,400 --> 00:17:00,480 Speaker 1: that way. That being said, given to two people running, 292 00:17:01,480 --> 00:17:03,880 Speaker 1: regardless of what they said on the campaign trail, I 293 00:17:03,880 --> 00:17:05,080 Speaker 1: would have voted for President's A. 294 00:17:06,600 --> 00:17:09,640 Speaker 6: I don't necessarily have regrets. I mean, it came out, 295 00:17:09,720 --> 00:17:15,840 Speaker 6: but that's what he was going to fight for, and 296 00:17:15,920 --> 00:17:20,120 Speaker 6: knowingly that would affect us, probably. 297 00:17:19,720 --> 00:17:24,320 Speaker 5: Because the only place to really ship a volume of 298 00:17:24,480 --> 00:17:28,800 Speaker 5: lumber was either Vietnam or China, and you know, so 299 00:17:28,920 --> 00:17:33,720 Speaker 5: you know it's going to affect us. But I don't 300 00:17:33,760 --> 00:17:38,040 Speaker 5: Outside of voting, I don't think I had a choice 301 00:17:38,200 --> 00:17:43,080 Speaker 5: to vote any other direction. I don't like the way 302 00:17:43,720 --> 00:17:48,760 Speaker 5: we're going about immigration strategy, if you will, but something had. 303 00:17:48,600 --> 00:17:51,520 Speaker 1: To be done to control our borders. 304 00:17:51,760 --> 00:17:56,480 Speaker 5: I think that's being accomplished now, having ice and everything else. 305 00:17:56,760 --> 00:17:59,800 Speaker 5: You know, a entire I don't even watch. 306 00:17:59,720 --> 00:18:02,320 Speaker 6: News anymore, just because it's the same thing over and 307 00:18:02,400 --> 00:18:05,680 Speaker 6: over again, kind of like insanity. 308 00:18:08,880 --> 00:18:11,760 Speaker 3: The last board at Mackey's Ferry Sawmill came off the 309 00:18:11,760 --> 00:18:16,080 Speaker 3: production line on September twenty ninth. Wilson and Stephen laid 310 00:18:16,119 --> 00:18:18,919 Speaker 3: off fifty people, some of whom had worked for the 311 00:18:18,920 --> 00:18:20,119 Speaker 3: mill for decades. 312 00:18:20,640 --> 00:18:21,720 Speaker 4: Is this the last to do it? 313 00:18:22,200 --> 00:18:22,560 Speaker 2: In here? 314 00:18:22,880 --> 00:18:25,760 Speaker 1: This is kind of the last of it packaged up 315 00:18:25,800 --> 00:18:29,159 Speaker 1: and piled up. There'll be some we'll be able to 316 00:18:29,600 --> 00:18:32,480 Speaker 1: sail here and there, but it's just we're trying to 317 00:18:32,480 --> 00:18:34,560 Speaker 1: get the biggest chunks out of it right now. 318 00:18:35,720 --> 00:18:38,280 Speaker 3: Sean and Rachel visit it about a month later, as 319 00:18:38,320 --> 00:18:42,359 Speaker 3: the process of closing down was nearly complete, and amidst 320 00:18:42,440 --> 00:18:46,400 Speaker 3: cobwebs and the simple electric hum of the lights, Wilson 321 00:18:46,840 --> 00:18:48,960 Speaker 3: showed them what's left of Mackie's ferry. 322 00:18:49,960 --> 00:18:52,200 Speaker 4: Said, you hadn't been here in a few weeks. 323 00:18:52,359 --> 00:18:54,800 Speaker 1: Yeah, there's not really a lot that I can do. 324 00:18:55,800 --> 00:18:58,240 Speaker 1: I learned it took a while because I'm not in 325 00:18:58,240 --> 00:19:03,399 Speaker 1: the sharpest tool initiad, but I learned it. Like you know, 326 00:19:03,480 --> 00:19:06,399 Speaker 1: here these guys. Instead of me telling them take a 327 00:19:06,440 --> 00:19:10,040 Speaker 1: step forward, step right, step left, go backwards, Let's say okay, look, 328 00:19:10,080 --> 00:19:11,840 Speaker 1: you know how to do your job and. 329 00:19:11,760 --> 00:19:13,240 Speaker 4: Walk away, letting them do the thing. 330 00:19:13,400 --> 00:19:14,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, let them do their thing. 331 00:19:15,440 --> 00:19:18,679 Speaker 3: The Jones brothers offer jobs to Mackie's ferry workers at 332 00:19:18,720 --> 00:19:21,760 Speaker 3: the other mill JW. Jones Lumber, about an hour away. 333 00:19:22,400 --> 00:19:25,280 Speaker 3: Only ten out of the original fifty took them up 334 00:19:25,280 --> 00:19:25,600 Speaker 3: on it. 335 00:19:26,240 --> 00:19:30,600 Speaker 4: I read about economics. Economics is data, it's aggregate data, 336 00:19:31,520 --> 00:19:34,600 Speaker 4: and we often lose sight of the fact that economics 337 00:19:34,640 --> 00:19:38,920 Speaker 4: as people and economy is its people. It's not its economists. 338 00:19:39,840 --> 00:19:42,040 Speaker 4: Wilson Jones is one of those people. 339 00:19:42,880 --> 00:19:45,479 Speaker 1: And then the other thing is is you're just going 340 00:19:45,560 --> 00:19:48,119 Speaker 1: to stand around, make yourself miserable, pull your head out 341 00:19:48,160 --> 00:19:50,400 Speaker 1: of you and try to, you know, make a difference. 342 00:19:50,440 --> 00:19:54,359 Speaker 4: Way you can make a difference. Quit feeling sorry for yourself. 343 00:19:58,800 --> 00:19:59,320 Speaker 1: That was. 344 00:20:02,400 --> 00:20:05,320 Speaker 4: It's hard to see someone going through that and feeling 345 00:20:05,359 --> 00:20:08,040 Speaker 4: that that burden. It's the only way you can you 346 00:20:08,080 --> 00:20:10,520 Speaker 4: can you can describe that is that this is personal 347 00:20:10,520 --> 00:20:11,439 Speaker 4: for Wilson Jones. 348 00:20:16,280 --> 00:20:18,760 Speaker 3: This is the Big Take from Bloomberg News. I'm David Dura. 349 00:20:19,240 --> 00:20:22,000 Speaker 3: The show is hosted by me wanha and Sarah Holder. 350 00:20:22,440 --> 00:20:25,919 Speaker 3: Show is made by Aaron Edwards, David Fox, Eleanor, Harrison Dengate, 351 00:20:26,080 --> 00:20:30,679 Speaker 3: Patti hirsh Rachel Lewis, Krisky, Naomi, Julia Press, Tracy Samuelson, 352 00:20:30,760 --> 00:20:35,200 Speaker 3: Naomi Shaven, Alex Sagura, Julia Weaver, Young Young, and take Yasuzawa. 353 00:20:35,760 --> 00:20:38,240 Speaker 3: To get more from The Big Take and unlimited access 354 00:20:38,280 --> 00:20:41,480 Speaker 3: to all of Bloomberg dot Com, subscribe today at Bloomberg 355 00:20:41,520 --> 00:20:45,359 Speaker 3: dot Com Slash Podcast offer. Thanks for listening. We'll be 356 00:20:45,359 --> 00:20:49,120 Speaker 3: back on Monday.