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Speaker 1: I think Seth England had a falling out with Morgan

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Speaker 1: Ballin freaked out and dropped me and a lot of

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Speaker 1: other people who had stuff going on. And I also

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Speaker 1: think that they realized that they didn't have the capacity

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Speaker 1: within their staff to work the kind of music I

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Speaker 1: was releasing.

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Speaker 2: Episode four to ninety with Maggie Rose, who's really one

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Speaker 2: of the best singers in town, and she definitely chose

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Speaker 2: her own path to do it. She's always been kind

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Speaker 2: of on the fringe of what is considered mainstream, and

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Speaker 2: that's always what's made her so cool, kind of ahead

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Speaker 2: of her time even And what's hilarious we talk about this, Well,

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Speaker 2: she got a Grammy nomination, and that's not hilarious, but

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Speaker 2: what happened right before the Grammy nomination, So I don't

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Speaker 2: want to spoil what we talked about in this episode,

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Speaker 2: but she was just nominated for Grammy for Best Americana Album,

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Speaker 2: which is super cool. What was fun to me, Like

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Speaker 2: I've known Maggie for a decade. It's crazy to say

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Speaker 2: that word because I've even been here for a decade.

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Speaker 2: But when I first moved to town and we were touring,

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Speaker 2: she was on the road with us a lot, and

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Speaker 2: I didn't know some of the stories that she told

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Speaker 2: from pre me moving here, Like I didn't know that

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Speaker 2: she had a whole different name. Yeah, I had no idea.

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Speaker 2: So Maggie Rose, I'm super happy for her. I think

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Speaker 2: she had some stuff she wanted to get off her

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Speaker 2: chest here as well. Yeah, I could tell us. She'd

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Speaker 2: be like, wait to talk about that stuff. Honored. She

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Speaker 2: wanted to do it here with me, and she trusted

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Speaker 2: me that, you know, I would walk through her with it.

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Speaker 2: I you know, full transparency. Had had some talks with

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Speaker 2: her about it during the process where she'd call and

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Speaker 2: be like, what do you think? And I'm no expert

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Speaker 2: on record labels for sure, but that even that really

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Speaker 2: wasn't what I was talking to her about. It was

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Speaker 2: kind of like, don't worry about other folks at all,

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Speaker 2: Like do you and let all the chips fall? At

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Speaker 2: least you can be proud of that. But man, she's awesome.

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Speaker 2: On January tenth, she released a cover of I Can't

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Speaker 2: Make You Love Me featuring Vince Gill. I Can't Make

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Speaker 2: You Love Me? Maybe I should do a cover of

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Speaker 2: that with Maggie very Good featuring featuring Maggie No One

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Speaker 2: Gets out Alive. That's a record. I hope you check

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Speaker 2: it out. I hope you like this interview. She's expecting

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Speaker 2: a baby April with her husband Austin Marshall. She has

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Speaker 2: a podcast called Salute the Songbird, and she's all over

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Speaker 2: the road. And here she is on Instagram at I

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Speaker 2: am Maggie Rose. Here is Maggie Rose.

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Speaker 1: A lot of labels would say like, we love what

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Speaker 1: you do, we just don't know what to do with you.

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Speaker 1: And I would be met with that all the time.

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Speaker 1: And so I think you just got to keep making music. Well,

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Speaker 1: and you know, this whole Big Loud thing, Like I talked.

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Speaker 2: To you after that happened, And do you want to

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Speaker 2: say what that is before you talk about it? Do

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Speaker 2: you mind talking what saying?

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Speaker 1: Well, I haven't gotten to talk about it.

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Speaker 2: Would you like to talk about it?

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Speaker 1: Yeah?

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Speaker 2: So then let's let's back up. And first of all,

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Speaker 2: Big Loud is a label. Yes, it's also management. It's all.

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Speaker 2: It's a thing.

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Speaker 1: But they signed you, they signed me, and like they are,

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Speaker 1: you know, by all conventional standards, crushing it. They at

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Speaker 1: the time that I signed with them, had Morgan Wallen

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Speaker 1: and Hardy and Earnest, and they were trying to expand

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Speaker 1: and I had already made No One Gets Out Alive.

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Speaker 1: The record was done, it was mastered. I was probably

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Speaker 1: going to just release it the way I'd released my

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Speaker 1: previous two albums, which is change the whole thing.

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Speaker 2: No no, no, you say, released it as you did

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Speaker 2: your last two albums.

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Speaker 1: Just independently, like with A. I have a good team

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Speaker 1: of publicists and distributors, and you know, we would hire

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Speaker 1: independent promotion and everything more for Triple A Radio and

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Speaker 1: Americana focuses. But Nate Yetton heard this record and he

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Speaker 1: was hired as an A and R, which is kind

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Speaker 1: of the could be the coolest job ever. Your job

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Speaker 1: is to cultivate.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, let's go find it and build it.

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Speaker 1: He His specific Fick objective with Big Loud was to

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Speaker 1: broaden their musical roster to find critical acclaim Like he

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Speaker 1: told me and my husband Austin, He's like, you know,

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Speaker 1: we want a Grammy.

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Speaker 2: Critical acclaim by the way, artists that you're respected for

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Speaker 2: having but may not be commercially as viable. But you're like,

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Speaker 2: they're really good and the critics love them. But and

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Speaker 2: there's a difference but they wanted something that wasn't populous.

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Speaker 2: Yes type, because Morgan's killing a Harty's killing it, and

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Speaker 2: people will be like, well, you got people that are

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Speaker 2: making hits. They wanted a symphony. Yeah, and that's you.

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Speaker 2: They wanted you.

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Speaker 1: I was totally flattered and inspired by the vision and

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Speaker 1: it was surprising to me. I don't feel like I

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Speaker 1: was definitely the outlier on their roster, and in terms

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Speaker 1: of critical acclaim like, no, I'm not shy about saying

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Speaker 1: that we've had no shortage of that the last couple

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Speaker 1: of records. And that goes back to your question about

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Speaker 1: you know, frustration and myself and people. It's like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: that was there.

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Speaker 2: But I think credibility is another word I would use.

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Speaker 2: Not to interrupt you, I just want to make sure

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Speaker 2: our audience knows what's going on. I think they wanted

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Speaker 2: credibility from music with depth. Yeah, not that the other

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Speaker 2: guys don't have it, but they're killing it again, I

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Speaker 2: use work populous in a very populous way. They want

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Speaker 2: a credibility, right, Yeah.

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Speaker 1: When I think they're a young enough company that that

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Speaker 1: was the right time for them to then take that

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Speaker 1: step in the direction to say okay, we can do

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Speaker 1: more than just have these massive streaming darlings and you know,

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Speaker 1: go direct to consumer and have a hit. And I

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Speaker 1: have no doubt that they love this record. Like that's

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Speaker 1: not something that I negate and I appreciate their vision

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Speaker 1: in it, but like it was an undeniable offer. It

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Speaker 1: was like, we're going to acquire this whole album. We

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Speaker 1: made beautiful music videos, We did all this incredible artwork

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Speaker 1: and packaging, you know, with Sofia Matanezade and Nikki Fletcher

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Speaker 1: shooting these videos, and they talked about partnering with Polydor

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Speaker 1: out of UK and just how like this was going

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Speaker 1: to be, you know, an adult contemporary pop album, and

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Speaker 1: they were really going to strategize on the marketing plan,

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Speaker 1: like and.

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Speaker 2: They were promising and using resources, yes, and.

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Speaker 1: It wasn't like they implemented those resources in a lot

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Speaker 1: of ways. And you know, I'd already waited to put

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Speaker 1: this music out, so with that promise of this plan,

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Speaker 1: I waited a little longer. And it came out in

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Speaker 1: April of twenty four and they put billboards all over

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Speaker 1: East Nashville, and we did these showcases in New York

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Speaker 1: City in LA and you know, we got on like

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Speaker 1: these great reviews upon the release, and then it was

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Speaker 1: like radio silence, which is.

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Speaker 2: What they were looking for, by the way, to have

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Speaker 2: an artist that would be reviewed wonderfully by critics. Right,

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Speaker 2: this this snobby part which is important. Yeah, yeah, the

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Speaker 2: people that. Yeah, so so you get ever, you get

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Speaker 2: what they brought you to do. You've created something, and

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Speaker 2: what you created was exactly what they had asked you

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Speaker 2: to do. You went and did it all and then

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Speaker 2: silent Yeah from who what do you mean? Silent?

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Speaker 1: Like from And there's a lot of people like I

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Speaker 1: think Candice Watkins is amazing there. She was really engaged,

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Speaker 1: and I'm not sure that she she liked me. I

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Speaker 1: think was blindsided about the whole thing. But I'm out

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Speaker 1: on the road. I'm on the No One Gets Out

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Speaker 1: Alive tour. I find out that like some of the

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Speaker 1: digital marketing spending is comparable to like what I did

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Speaker 1: on my own with one song on the previous record,

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Speaker 1: And it's like all this investment leading up to the

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Speaker 1: release and then it's like someone freaked out or something happened,

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Speaker 1: and I can speculate, and I can only speculate because

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Speaker 1: no one's called me and told me what's happened?

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Speaker 2: What happened?

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Speaker 1: I think Seth England had a falling out with Morgan

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Speaker 1: Ballin and freaked out and dropped me and a lot

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Speaker 1: of other people who had stuff going on. And I

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Speaker 1: also think that they realized that they didn't have the

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Speaker 1: capacity within their staff to work the kind of music

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Speaker 1: I was releasing. So they are great with Spotify and

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Speaker 1: these streaming services and all that stuff, but like the

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Speaker 1: nuance that they talked about using with this music, they

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Speaker 1: didn't have it. They just didn't have the stuff. And

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Speaker 1: it was three months after we put this record out. Like,

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Speaker 1: it can't be based on metrics. It can't be based

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Speaker 1: on analytics of how the music is performing. It hasn't

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Speaker 1: even been out long enough.

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Speaker 2: So I want to speculate, and I want to be

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Speaker 2: a very uneducated with my speculation. And if I'm wrong,

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Speaker 2: tell me I'm wrong.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, they can call me if they want to correct me.

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Speaker 1: I'd happily here.

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Speaker 2: Well I know less than you because I'm not involved

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Speaker 2: in this. But when you say Seth and Morgan had

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Speaker 2: a falling out, my belief is Morgan did not want

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Speaker 2: to be managed anymore by Big Loud, which was his label,

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Speaker 2: and they have a multi if I'm right, they manage,

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Speaker 2: they produce, they do it all. And to lose that money.

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Speaker 2: If Morgan's like, it's devastating, devastating, because I'll just talk

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Speaker 2: about my management. My management makes RAG makes ten fifteen percent. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: so think about that millions of dollars and fifteen percent

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Speaker 2: of that is now gone. And again they may have

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Speaker 2: had a deal where instead of the twenty five or whatever,

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Speaker 2: we'll just say fifteen percent because that's what I know.

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Speaker 2: That's a lot of money, Yeah, which I'm sure they

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Speaker 2: are budgeting to have and to use in other places,

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Speaker 2: and now they don't have it. I guess what sucks

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Speaker 2: is you weren't communicated that.

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Speaker 1: No. I felt like I was. Also, they were signing

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Speaker 1: up a storm, like there were so many new acts

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Speaker 1: getting signed after my initial signing, and I felt like

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Speaker 1: my guy Nate Gyetten, who I felt I was very

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Speaker 1: close to, like he took his eye off the ball.

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Speaker 2: For sure, on you because of they were signing everyone

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Speaker 2: else or because they had not figure how to make money.

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Speaker 1: You think, well, I think he was very ambitious about

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Speaker 1: finding these new acts to build the roster. And you

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Speaker 1: know that is his prerogative and that was his job

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Speaker 1: and what he was asked to do. But there were

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Speaker 1: I look back at, like my correspondence, like I was

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Speaker 1: sending new songs for just starting to toss out stuff

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Speaker 1: that I'd want to record for the next project, and

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Speaker 1: like not really getting a lot of engagement.

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Speaker 2: What would your team sake if that happens, And it's

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Speaker 2: happened a version of this has happened with me and

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Speaker 2: TV Networks, Right if I become not the shiny toy,

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Speaker 2: two different things. You know, they don't call back as much,

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Speaker 2: they won't answer, So I'll just go to my team, like, hey,

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Speaker 2: what's up. If you're doing that with your team, what

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Speaker 2: are they telling you?

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Speaker 1: Well, I think we did talk to them. I had

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Speaker 1: a show in May in Nashville, and you know, Austin

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Speaker 1: sat down with Candace and was like, what's going on,

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Speaker 1: Like we just feel like there's a lag in communication

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Speaker 1: where it was full court press leading up to that,

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Speaker 1: and Candace said, this record's a baby, like we're just

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Speaker 1: getting started, and that immediately put us at ease, and like,

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Speaker 1: I thought this was my home for a long time

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Speaker 1: based on the creative freedom they had given me. How

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Speaker 1: much I knew that they.

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Speaker 2: Love this record money they'd spent.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, and I've gotten all those masters back.

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Speaker 1: I've gotten all those assets back. They made me whole lot.

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Speaker 2: Did you have to buy back?

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Speaker 1: No, I did, like a royalty override, which I think

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Speaker 1: that's pretty telling too, that it was that I was

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Speaker 1: able to reacquire all of that.

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Speaker 2: Explain a royalty override.

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Speaker 1: So basically, if they want to see any of the

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Speaker 1: returns on their investment, that music has to perform well,

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Speaker 1: and they get like the investment that maybe I made

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Speaker 1: in the recording and a little bit of interest on

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Speaker 1: top of that, but not on the videos, not on

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Speaker 1: like all this other stuff. So it really is a shame.

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Speaker 1: I wanted to win with them, and I ended up

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Speaker 1: submitting for the Grammys by myself. But I get to

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Speaker 1: take all of those things, and I've gone to I've

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Speaker 1: signed now with one Riot and Virgin Music Group, and

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Speaker 1: now they get to use all that stuff that I

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Speaker 1: got to make with Loud, but also with the creative

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Speaker 1: director and music video director who were outsourced, who I

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Speaker 1: have relationships with already.

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Speaker 2: Anyway, how did the conversation, When did the conversation happen?

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Speaker 2: Where it's like, Okay, we're breaking up, because again it

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Speaker 2: sounds like they were kicking they can't or they just

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Speaker 2: didn't want to have that difficult conversation with.

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Speaker 1: You they didn't have it, or it was July twenty second.

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Speaker 1: I had gotten back from a pretty gnarly run. It

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Speaker 1: was a tough My sound guy was sick, it was

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Speaker 1: the gigs were tough. And then that Monday morning, I

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Speaker 1: go into Narvel Blackstock's office. Noarvel's been managing me with

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Speaker 1: Austin for eight years now, and he's a pro, like

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Speaker 1: he was married to Reba and he's seen it all.

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Speaker 1: And I sit in his office and his eyes are

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Speaker 1: so watery, and I'm just like, oh God, what is

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Speaker 1: what am I about to hear? I thought I was

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Speaker 1: going to hear news. I didn't know what I was

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Speaker 1: going to hear. And he just said, I've been holding

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Speaker 1: this all weekend last third. I went to the office

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Speaker 1: and Big Loud and I sat with Seth and Nate

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Speaker 1: and we walked into the conference room kind of made

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Speaker 1: small talk. We're figuring out how to work the lights.

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Speaker 1: And then after we got done talking about postmone or

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Speaker 1: whatever they said, I say, so we're not moving forward

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Speaker 1: with Maggie, and he said he was just in a daze,

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Speaker 1: like didn't even know how to respond because it was

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Speaker 1: such a quick, like abrupt cutting off of this long

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Speaker 1: term plan, like it took us longer to negotiate this deal.

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Speaker 1: I feel like then I was actually with them, and

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Speaker 1: I really felt and I'm not this is not my

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Speaker 1: first time around the block, like I'm not so trusting

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Speaker 1: of any organization, and I really do feel like I

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Speaker 1: had friendships at this at this label, and we all

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Speaker 1: were excited about the opportunity, and then it just was

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Speaker 1: like like I even feel some part of my heart

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Speaker 1: feels sympathy for Nate, even though I wish he had

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Speaker 1: communicated with me more. That like this was pulled on

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Speaker 1: him quickly, and Marvelle finally said he snapped back into

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Speaker 1: it and was like, well, you're gonna give her a

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Speaker 1: master's back, right. They didn't even have a plan for that.

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Speaker 1: So it took about six weeks to figure that out.

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Speaker 1: And I still hadn't heard directly from anyone, No one

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Speaker 1: talked to me.

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Speaker 2: That part, to me, is crazy.

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Speaker 1: I just that's I do not operate that way. Ghosting

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Speaker 1: and all that crazy stuff is like I don't know.

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Speaker 1: It's like for early twenties dating behavior. It's not how

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Speaker 1: you conduct business. And I like, obviously I'm still sore

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Speaker 1: about it, and I have all these great things to

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Speaker 1: have ended the year with, but it's and then I

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Speaker 1: found out two weeks later I was pregnant, and it

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Speaker 1: was just like, you know, truly, not that that wasn't

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Speaker 1: an amazing, happy piece of news, but it was definitely

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Speaker 1: like an oh crap.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, So what kind of closure do you feel like? Now,

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Speaker 2: I'm not gonna say neat because you don't need it,

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Speaker 2: but what kind of closure would you like?

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Speaker 1: I think I've gotten it in so many ways. I

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Speaker 1: love my new team.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, there's still resentment there. I'd be way worse than you.

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Speaker 2: I mean I would be I'd be on fire.

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Speaker 1: Still, you know, I did get a text and I

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Speaker 1: usually don't get into this kind of like conversation talking

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Speaker 1: about texts and correspondence, but it is that's everything at

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Speaker 1: the end of the day. Like I've worked with so

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Speaker 1: many people over all these years I've been here, and

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Speaker 1: not a whole lot of bridges burned because there's mutual respect.

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Speaker 1: If we had gone through the process of really working

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Speaker 1: this music and it just didn't work, and we had

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Speaker 1: to say, like, all right, like we tried, then that

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Speaker 1: would be fine. Or if they leveled with me and said,

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Speaker 1: this is happening with us, and you know, apparently there

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Speaker 1: was some suggestion this has nothing to do with Maggie

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Speaker 1: Da Da Da too, Norvel, but they left me open

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Speaker 1: to all this speculation. I think I said this to

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Speaker 1: you when I was trying to deal with like what

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Speaker 1: are people thinking out there about this? They left me

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Speaker 1: open to people just kind of wondering, oh, what did

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Speaker 1: she do to mess that up? Because no one they

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Speaker 1: just didn't say anything. It's like, we put this record

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Speaker 1: out in such a big way or what could have

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Speaker 1: been a big way, and then we just weren't working

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Speaker 1: together anymore. And the text I finally got in September

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Speaker 1: from Nate probably instigated by the fact that other artists

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Speaker 1: at Big Loud were starting to figure out. They're like, wait,

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Speaker 1: what the hell happened? It was like urging him to

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Speaker 1: then finally reach out. He's like, sorry, we haven't spoken

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Speaker 1: since we parted ways. I just was told not to

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Speaker 1: reach out until we reached a master's agreement. Well, at

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Speaker 1: that point we had reached it. A long time ago,

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Speaker 1: and the implication of parting ways is so such a

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Speaker 1: cop out to me because it would imply that it

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Speaker 1: was mutual and that it was humane and that it

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Speaker 1: was done with respect. So I guess that's the closure.

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Speaker 1: It's like, let's not rewrite the narrative this was. This

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Speaker 1: could have been a really devastating blow to my career,

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Speaker 1: to my will to keep doing this. And I think

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Speaker 1: about other artists who were dropped from Big Loud around

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Speaker 1: the same time, who, like I would I could sit

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Speaker 1: down and talk to because they might be attributing so

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Speaker 1: much value to that opportunity that was given to them

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Speaker 1: and then have it taken away and that could be

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Speaker 1: such a deterrent for them to keep making music in

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Speaker 1: the future. And it's just like, there are there are

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Speaker 1: repercussions for doing that to people.

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Speaker 2: Do you just wish you knew why? Like if someone

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Speaker 2: that made the decision would say, all right, for real,

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Speaker 2: here's the thing. Either nice, you know it's good we

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Speaker 2: thought you were, yeah, or we're not making it as

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Speaker 2: much much as thought we would and we couldn't afford

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Speaker 2: it like that. I feel like that would be nice. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: just that whatever it is, like the real answer.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I I think I want to know what they

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Speaker 1: think their reasons were. But if it were any of

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Speaker 1: those reasons, I mean we're getting all the things that

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Speaker 1: they wanted in terms of critical claim or validation, and

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Speaker 1: then in terms of performance find financially like how premature

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Speaker 1: well the move to make.

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Speaker 2: And unfair if that's what they're saying, because again they

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Speaker 2: knew going into it. I assumed they knew going into

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Speaker 2: it that again they wanted critical acclaim and it's not

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Speaker 2: like an n Sync album. This does two million records

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Speaker 2: in the first week, right with critical acclaim that takes

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Speaker 2: a while, which is why that can't possibly beat it

365
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Speaker 2: because it's not like you're expecting on week one streams

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Speaker 2: to be able to you know, a ten multiply on

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Speaker 2: the investment. So yeah, I would want to know even

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Speaker 2: if it was I always don't like it anymore, like

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Speaker 2: I would like to know something because I think I

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Speaker 2: wouldt are doubting myself.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, there was a there was a danger

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Speaker 1: of that for a minute, and I mean I think

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Speaker 1: I started to regain my confidence in like October, but

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Speaker 1: it was also so weird because Bobby I got the

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Speaker 1: Master's back and I was walking into my house and

376
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Speaker 1: serious exem you know they do those bumpers. They're like, Hi,

377
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Speaker 1: this is Maggie Ro's and this my song Fake Flowers,

378
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Speaker 1: and like it was. They were playing it like every hour,

379
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Speaker 1: and I'm busy dealing with attorneys, like just feeling like

380
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Speaker 1: what's going on. And the first gig that we did

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Speaker 1: when I got that text, I was out at the

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Speaker 1: Gorge with Dave Matthews and I just felt like it

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Speaker 1: was working and finally taking hold. And then all this

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Speaker 1: stuff was I was navigating behind the scenes, and luckily

385
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Speaker 1: I have such a great partnership with Austin. I love

386
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Speaker 1: my band. I was trying not to freak them out.

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Speaker 1: There was a lot that like I couldn't tell them

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Speaker 1: right away, and like I love this music and people

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Speaker 1: were showing up and things were happening. I felt like

390
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Speaker 1: I was just not able and music row can be

391
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Speaker 1: that way. They're like so in their own bubble that

392
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Speaker 1: they don't see these other things that are happening around

393
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Speaker 1: a lot of artists who just because they make music

394
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Speaker 1: in Nashville, it doesn't mean that it's going to manifest

395
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Speaker 1: or perform in those spaces the way they want it to,

396
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Speaker 1: but it's happening elsewhere.

397
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Speaker 2: It's I go back to Irony. You canniinated for a Grammy.

398
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Speaker 2: That is the exact reason that that label wanted a relationship.

399
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Speaker 1: I know, I know, I know it's weird and that's

400
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Speaker 1: and all these award shows have their flaws, but like,

401
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Speaker 1: that is a peer voted award.

402
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Speaker 2: And even if it's not, there is just credibility with

403
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Speaker 2: a Grammy. Even if it's the shadiest worst blood diamond relate,

404
00:22:49,080 --> 00:22:53,160
Speaker 2: it doesn't matter. Yeah, there is nothing more credible than

405
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Speaker 2: a Grammy because the normal people don't know how that is,

406
00:22:56,480 --> 00:22:58,479
Speaker 2: how that happens. Like, yeah, I'm a voter and used

407
00:22:58,480 --> 00:23:00,520
Speaker 2: to be until a few years ago. They go into

408
00:23:00,560 --> 00:23:02,440
Speaker 2: a back room. I can change the vote. Remember, Mike,

409
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Speaker 2: we've talked about this, right, I am a Grammy voter,

410
00:23:04,800 --> 00:23:08,560
Speaker 2: and that's the most credible thing you can possibly have. Yeah,

411
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Speaker 2: I mean, I mean I have a doctorate other than that,

412
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Speaker 2: you know, after after my honorary doctorate. Yes, and you

413
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Speaker 2: so you submit I know the process. I submitted to

414
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Speaker 2: kids Record once. Yeah, and then you just wait and

415
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Speaker 2: you obviously I'm like, I know we're not going to

416
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Speaker 2: get nominated, but if we just submit this, maybe it's

417
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Speaker 2: makes creates a little more awareness for the next time.

418
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Speaker 2: That's what I'm telling myself. In the kids category, Yeah,

419
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Speaker 2: you submit what was best possible scenario when you submit

420
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Speaker 2: for a Grammy.

421
00:23:37,080 --> 00:23:39,760
Speaker 1: What we got the Best Americana album?

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Speaker 2: So you thought you possibly could be nominated when you

423
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Speaker 2: send it off.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I had to shoot my shot, and I'm

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Speaker 1: I'm really involved with the Academy in Nashville, like I

426
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Speaker 1: work with advocacy, and there's so much that I love

427
00:23:54,359 --> 00:23:59,720
Speaker 1: about it that goes beyond the awards. But I was like, yeah,

428
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Speaker 1: I need to go through this process.

429
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Speaker 2: And how'd you know they call you? Do you see

430
00:24:04,040 --> 00:24:05,439
Speaker 2: it online? First? What happens?

431
00:24:05,600 --> 00:24:08,119
Speaker 1: I was out on a hike and did you know?

432
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Speaker 2: It was like, did you know they were going to

433
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Speaker 2: nominate that day? So are you like waiting to hear

434
00:24:11,920 --> 00:24:12,960
Speaker 2: if you got nominated?

435
00:24:13,760 --> 00:24:18,080
Speaker 1: I actually so. They do a broadcast a live stream,

436
00:24:18,240 --> 00:24:21,480
Speaker 1: and this was on the eleventh of November, I think,

437
00:24:22,320 --> 00:24:25,760
Speaker 1: and I knew that they everyone finds out at the

438
00:24:25,800 --> 00:24:29,800
Speaker 1: same time, so they just announced all the people in

439
00:24:29,800 --> 00:24:30,840
Speaker 1: my category on the.

440
00:24:30,800 --> 00:24:33,120
Speaker 2: Live stream and you knew the stream was happening, Yes,

441
00:24:33,200 --> 00:24:36,240
Speaker 2: But I was out and watch, but you weren't watching.

442
00:24:36,400 --> 00:24:39,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, and I guess because I had my my

443
00:24:39,680 --> 00:24:43,359
Speaker 1: fitness setting on, I wasn't getting all the texts, but

444
00:24:43,400 --> 00:24:46,240
Speaker 1: I was getting them from like those people on your

445
00:24:47,920 --> 00:24:51,719
Speaker 1: your favorites list. And Austin was also not watching at

446
00:24:51,720 --> 00:24:54,639
Speaker 1: the time. And then I just was like, well, I

447
00:24:54,680 --> 00:24:57,439
Speaker 1: haven't heard anything, so I just didn't realize that they

448
00:24:57,440 --> 00:25:00,840
Speaker 1: weren't coming through. And I reached out to him. I

449
00:25:00,880 --> 00:25:03,440
Speaker 1: was like, well, you know, we tried and we can

450
00:25:03,480 --> 00:25:06,080
Speaker 1: be proud of that. And then he was getting to

451
00:25:06,359 --> 00:25:09,720
Speaker 1: starstruck the office at that time, and I heard him

452
00:25:09,720 --> 00:25:12,800
Speaker 1: on the phone like as the elevator doors were opening,

453
00:25:12,920 --> 00:25:15,399
Speaker 1: and it was all the girls on his floor just

454
00:25:16,160 --> 00:25:20,200
Speaker 1: shrieking because they had seen it like moments before we did.

455
00:25:21,480 --> 00:25:26,280
Speaker 1: And yeah, it was surreal. I was like, I think

456
00:25:26,320 --> 00:25:30,960
Speaker 1: we deserved it. I wasn't expecting it at all. There

457
00:25:31,400 --> 00:25:35,000
Speaker 1: wasn't And I'm not just saying that to like.

458
00:25:35,840 --> 00:25:38,440
Speaker 2: I believe say it. I believe both of those statements.

459
00:25:38,880 --> 00:25:40,840
Speaker 2: I believe you think you deserved it, and I believe

460
00:25:40,880 --> 00:25:43,200
Speaker 2: you didn't think you're going to get it.

461
00:25:43,440 --> 00:25:48,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, because it is. It is. There's politics to it.

462
00:25:49,160 --> 00:25:52,240
Speaker 1: But what I do love about the Grammys is it's

463
00:25:52,280 --> 00:25:56,040
Speaker 1: not like other award shows where you have labels being like,

464
00:25:56,040 --> 00:25:57,720
Speaker 1: all right, we'll vote for you if you vote for us,

465
00:25:57,800 --> 00:25:59,800
Speaker 1: and all this block voting stuff like you have to

466
00:25:59,840 --> 00:26:06,280
Speaker 1: be making music or in broadcasting or kind of participating

467
00:26:06,480 --> 00:26:09,280
Speaker 1: in that output to be able to vote.

468
00:26:09,560 --> 00:26:13,400
Speaker 2: And you people vote for the Grammy because again, I'm

469
00:26:13,400 --> 00:26:18,800
Speaker 2: a Grammy voter from all over, Right, We're here. Most

470
00:26:18,800 --> 00:26:22,120
Speaker 2: of the voting's coming from like a twelve mile radius,

471
00:26:22,200 --> 00:26:24,119
Speaker 2: right where a lot of people are being exposed to

472
00:26:24,119 --> 00:26:26,480
Speaker 2: a lot of different things and aren't in the specific

473
00:26:26,480 --> 00:26:28,800
Speaker 2: clicks and don't even know the people to trade votes with. Yeah,

474
00:26:28,840 --> 00:26:31,680
Speaker 2: and I think that helps broaden the Grammys a little

475
00:26:31,720 --> 00:26:35,480
Speaker 2: more than a specific Nashville Country Music award, Right.

476
00:26:35,640 --> 00:26:39,560
Speaker 1: I mean, you can get someone who's not necessarily got

477
00:26:39,600 --> 00:26:43,479
Speaker 1: the best numbers who's going to qualify for that award,

478
00:26:43,520 --> 00:26:46,320
Speaker 1: and you have to also vote. This is kind of new.

479
00:26:48,520 --> 00:26:51,520
Speaker 1: You have to pick the categories in addition to like

480
00:26:51,560 --> 00:26:53,840
Speaker 1: the Big Five, which are Album of the Year, Arts

481
00:26:53,920 --> 00:26:57,440
Speaker 1: of the Year. The additional categories you have to select

482
00:26:57,640 --> 00:27:01,359
Speaker 1: have to pertain somewhat to what you work within, so

483
00:27:01,480 --> 00:27:06,359
Speaker 1: you're not like voting just based on nothing for artists

484
00:27:06,359 --> 00:27:09,440
Speaker 1: who make music that's totally outside of what you do.

485
00:27:09,800 --> 00:27:11,520
Speaker 2: Like you don't see a name, it just click it

486
00:27:11,560 --> 00:27:14,119
Speaker 2: because it looks cool. Like sometimes when voting, you're like, oh,

487
00:27:14,160 --> 00:27:16,680
Speaker 2: I saw that that billboard that's sign Yeah I like

488
00:27:16,720 --> 00:27:19,040
Speaker 2: the name Clint, So I'm gonna vote for Clint. Yeah. Yeah,

489
00:27:19,119 --> 00:27:21,600
Speaker 2: that doesn't happen anymore, which which even in my time

490
00:27:21,680 --> 00:27:22,879
Speaker 2: is being a voter. I used to be like that

491
00:27:22,880 --> 00:27:25,000
Speaker 2: you could vote for all the awards totally and so

492
00:27:25,080 --> 00:27:26,919
Speaker 2: it didn't matter. And then I never wanted to not

493
00:27:27,119 --> 00:27:28,119
Speaker 2: vote in a category, so.

494
00:27:28,119 --> 00:27:30,280
Speaker 1: I would just vote for something mm hmm exactly.

495
00:27:30,560 --> 00:27:33,880
Speaker 2: I literally would because I didn't participation. I didn't want

496
00:27:33,880 --> 00:27:36,159
Speaker 2: to look like I think I was lazy. Yeah, I

497
00:27:36,320 --> 00:27:41,120
Speaker 2: just click something. And so once you're nominated, like what,

498
00:27:41,240 --> 00:27:43,200
Speaker 2: I don't know what happens. Does your team go, let's

499
00:27:44,119 --> 00:27:46,160
Speaker 2: strike while the iron is hot. Yes.

500
00:27:46,600 --> 00:27:50,600
Speaker 1: So at that point once when I submitted, I was

501
00:27:50,680 --> 00:27:56,879
Speaker 1: not signed yet to my new label with Virgin, and

502
00:27:56,920 --> 00:27:59,600
Speaker 1: now I have to say, they're kind of like, holy shit,

503
00:27:59,720 --> 00:28:06,520
Speaker 1: what have we stepped into? There was even you know,

504
00:28:06,560 --> 00:28:10,560
Speaker 1: I just cut like six songs at the very beginning

505
00:28:10,600 --> 00:28:12,800
Speaker 1: of this year to kind of start putting together the

506
00:28:12,800 --> 00:28:17,800
Speaker 1: next thing. But this bought me a whole new life

507
00:28:17,880 --> 00:28:22,520
Speaker 1: for this record. So with that nomination, I think they've

508
00:28:22,560 --> 00:28:26,080
Speaker 1: refocused on all the life that's left and what we

509
00:28:26,119 --> 00:28:29,679
Speaker 1: can do with this music. But we we reworked some

510
00:28:29,720 --> 00:28:32,359
Speaker 1: of the songs from the record, like I have a

511
00:28:32,359 --> 00:28:35,800
Speaker 1: song with Vince Gill coming out on Friday that's completing

512
00:28:35,840 --> 00:28:40,280
Speaker 1: like the deluxe version of this record, and I think

513
00:28:40,320 --> 00:28:43,800
Speaker 1: it just sort of was like we threw this hot

514
00:28:43,840 --> 00:28:48,400
Speaker 1: potato at them and we've been trying to extract as

515
00:28:48,480 --> 00:28:50,120
Speaker 1: much as we can out of it.

516
00:28:50,120 --> 00:28:51,680
Speaker 2: It's also kind of funny feeling that you do this

517
00:28:51,720 --> 00:28:53,520
Speaker 2: record a year ago and now it's new again.

518
00:28:53,760 --> 00:28:56,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, and some of these songs are very prophetic, Like

519
00:28:56,880 --> 00:29:00,800
Speaker 1: if you listen to it, it's a lot about like

520
00:29:00,920 --> 00:29:03,800
Speaker 1: what I went through this year and the themes and everything.

521
00:29:04,520 --> 00:29:07,640
Speaker 3: Let's take a quick pause for a message from our sponsor.

522
00:29:16,000 --> 00:29:19,920
Speaker 2: And we're back on the Bobby Cast. When you and

523
00:29:19,960 --> 00:29:25,000
Speaker 2: I talked, I have to constantly like keep myself from

524
00:29:25,240 --> 00:29:28,960
Speaker 2: like doing anything creative and everything being based on if

525
00:29:29,240 --> 00:29:32,600
Speaker 2: people like it. What's a weird life to live. Yeah,

526
00:29:32,720 --> 00:29:34,760
Speaker 2: you're giving a lot of power to something you have

527
00:29:34,920 --> 00:29:38,280
Speaker 2: no control over or people you will never meet and see,

528
00:29:38,720 --> 00:29:42,320
Speaker 2: and something you cannot predict. At times, I wish I

529
00:29:42,480 --> 00:29:46,560
Speaker 2: were like my stepdad and he went to the mill,

530
00:29:47,280 --> 00:29:50,600
Speaker 2: knew what he was doing, did his eight hours, went home,

531
00:29:50,600 --> 00:29:54,400
Speaker 2: didn't worry about anything else, didn't, wasn't neurotic. Was like

532
00:29:55,200 --> 00:29:58,920
Speaker 2: at times, not mostly, but at times I'm pretty envious

533
00:29:58,960 --> 00:30:02,800
Speaker 2: of the But I am and you are wired like

534
00:30:03,000 --> 00:30:05,320
Speaker 2: we're wired. We have a screw loose. It happens to

535
00:30:05,360 --> 00:30:07,400
Speaker 2: be a good screw at times, which is why we

536
00:30:07,800 --> 00:30:11,680
Speaker 2: pursue this. But I have to constantly wind myself, and

537
00:30:11,720 --> 00:30:14,360
Speaker 2: I do this if I meditate. I try to meditate,

538
00:30:14,720 --> 00:30:22,120
Speaker 2: and my mantra is nothing matters, nobody cares. Yeah, And

539
00:30:22,120 --> 00:30:24,320
Speaker 2: I remember talking the most joyful way, yes, And I

540
00:30:24,320 --> 00:30:28,200
Speaker 2: remember talking to you about that specifically and going, nobody

541
00:30:28,240 --> 00:30:31,480
Speaker 2: cares about you in the best way because it sounds harsh.

542
00:30:31,680 --> 00:30:34,400
Speaker 1: Look at what's going on, and we're so lucky to

543
00:30:34,440 --> 00:30:34,880
Speaker 1: get to do.

544
00:30:34,880 --> 00:30:37,920
Speaker 2: This, and people have spent so much of their time

545
00:30:37,960 --> 00:30:42,800
Speaker 2: thinking about themselves. Yeah, I think that if I'm on

546
00:30:42,840 --> 00:30:44,959
Speaker 2: a show that doesn't get picked up and I'm embarrassed

547
00:30:45,680 --> 00:30:47,280
Speaker 2: and I'm like, oh my god.

548
00:30:48,160 --> 00:30:51,400
Speaker 1: This shows like the theme My takeaway from this year

549
00:30:51,440 --> 00:30:52,200
Speaker 1: is what you just said.

550
00:30:52,560 --> 00:30:55,360
Speaker 2: It's I would obsess over it. I mean, like, I'm

551
00:30:55,360 --> 00:30:56,920
Speaker 2: so embarrassed, how am I even going to go in

552
00:30:57,000 --> 00:31:00,440
Speaker 2: front of people? You know what, Nobody cared and not

553
00:31:00,480 --> 00:31:03,400
Speaker 2: that nobody cares about me, and not that nobody cares,

554
00:31:04,000 --> 00:31:08,200
Speaker 2: but nobody invests so much time in thinking about what

555
00:31:08,320 --> 00:31:11,840
Speaker 2: I didn't do right, and that gives me a freedom

556
00:31:11,960 --> 00:31:16,640
Speaker 2: to not care either but care fully right. And so

557
00:31:16,760 --> 00:31:19,480
Speaker 2: nothing matters. Nobody cares. I say that, And there's a

558
00:31:19,480 --> 00:31:21,600
Speaker 2: lot of off that matters, like little things matter way

559
00:31:21,640 --> 00:31:25,200
Speaker 2: more at times than I give them credit for. But

560
00:31:25,240 --> 00:31:27,240
Speaker 2: nothing Sometimes that I put all my worth and value

561
00:31:27,240 --> 00:31:28,520
Speaker 2: to none of that matters.

562
00:31:28,880 --> 00:31:30,720
Speaker 1: And I know what you mean. You're not saying that

563
00:31:30,760 --> 00:31:35,680
Speaker 1: in like a nihilistic way. It's like this is we're

564
00:31:35,720 --> 00:31:38,640
Speaker 1: adding joy and color to the world. And I find

565
00:31:38,640 --> 00:31:42,560
Speaker 1: it liberating that it's all like on a whim. If

566
00:31:42,560 --> 00:31:44,640
Speaker 1: people like it or not, there's no rhyme or reason

567
00:31:44,720 --> 00:31:48,280
Speaker 1: to it. And I think I I, as someone who

568
00:31:48,280 --> 00:31:54,840
Speaker 1: makes music, care when I see someone else have a

569
00:31:54,960 --> 00:31:59,720
Speaker 1: perceived failure and then they keep going because like that

570
00:32:00,240 --> 00:32:03,360
Speaker 1: that you're out there doing it and you're taking chances

571
00:32:03,880 --> 00:32:07,520
Speaker 1: and you're daring to grow. So yeah, I mean I

572
00:32:07,560 --> 00:32:10,200
Speaker 1: care in that regard, but I'm obviously watching from a

573
00:32:10,240 --> 00:32:12,480
Speaker 1: different perspective.

574
00:32:12,080 --> 00:32:16,080
Speaker 2: And I care at times blindly about so many things.

575
00:32:16,120 --> 00:32:18,600
Speaker 2: But the most positive, freeing thing I can tell myself

576
00:32:18,640 --> 00:32:21,360
Speaker 2: is nothing matters. Nobody cares, yeah, and I should not

577
00:32:21,520 --> 00:32:23,600
Speaker 2: worry about something matter. And what I mean is to

578
00:32:23,640 --> 00:32:26,320
Speaker 2: other people when it comes to me, I invest so

579
00:32:26,400 --> 00:32:31,840
Speaker 2: much time in thinking, oh man, this failure mattered so

580
00:32:32,000 --> 00:32:33,520
Speaker 2: much that people are going to look at me different

581
00:32:34,280 --> 00:32:34,960
Speaker 2: that nobody cares.

582
00:32:35,080 --> 00:32:38,400
Speaker 1: Yeah. I needed to hear that at that time too,

583
00:32:38,760 --> 00:32:42,000
Speaker 1: because that was what I was so worried about. Was God,

584
00:32:42,080 --> 00:32:45,800
Speaker 1: we made such a big splash about this partnership, and

585
00:32:46,320 --> 00:32:51,040
Speaker 1: for me, it was I kept saying in interviews and

586
00:32:51,080 --> 00:32:54,640
Speaker 1: I kind of like WinCE when I hear them again.

587
00:32:54,680 --> 00:32:57,719
Speaker 1: I was like, my jaded heart grew three sizes, like

588
00:32:57,800 --> 00:33:01,040
Speaker 1: this music real label actually is letting me do what

589
00:33:01,080 --> 00:33:03,880
Speaker 1: I want to do and believing in me. And then

590
00:33:04,520 --> 00:33:08,640
Speaker 1: there's just aged like milk, and it's like I was

591
00:33:08,720 --> 00:33:12,880
Speaker 1: just worried about people wondering how I had messed it up,

592
00:33:13,000 --> 00:33:13,720
Speaker 1: and no.

593
00:33:14,320 --> 00:33:16,360
Speaker 2: One, nobody thought about that's.

594
00:33:16,000 --> 00:33:20,600
Speaker 1: Just not And it's also most likely not about me,

595
00:33:20,920 --> 00:33:23,160
Speaker 1: and it sucks that I was a casualty of that.

596
00:33:23,880 --> 00:33:29,760
Speaker 1: But I think you also just need to make music

597
00:33:29,880 --> 00:33:33,360
Speaker 1: that or whatever it is that you do creatively that

598
00:33:33,800 --> 00:33:36,760
Speaker 1: you're going to enjoy and hope that people will like

599
00:33:36,800 --> 00:33:37,400
Speaker 1: it as well.

600
00:33:38,240 --> 00:33:40,840
Speaker 2: And if they don't, they're not gonna not like it

601
00:33:40,880 --> 00:33:43,520
Speaker 2: for very long. Doesn't mean they're gonna like it, They're

602
00:33:43,560 --> 00:33:46,800
Speaker 2: not gonna spend It's even the world of haters. I

603
00:33:46,880 --> 00:33:51,160
Speaker 2: felt that world almost dissipate completely in that there are

604
00:33:51,280 --> 00:33:53,320
Speaker 2: ten million things out there. It used to be when

605
00:33:53,320 --> 00:33:55,800
Speaker 2: there were like four four people, and I was one

606
00:33:55,840 --> 00:33:57,800
Speaker 2: of the four people, a lot of haters because I

607
00:33:57,840 --> 00:33:59,920
Speaker 2: was different, I didn't really fit anywhere. I would compare

608
00:34:00,400 --> 00:34:06,600
Speaker 2: our careers they're very similar in that we've never actually

609
00:34:06,840 --> 00:34:13,879
Speaker 2: belonged to a specific group that traditionally resides here.

610
00:34:14,440 --> 00:34:16,640
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, you were like, oh yeah, just a total

611
00:34:16,680 --> 00:34:17,440
Speaker 1: wild card.

612
00:34:18,640 --> 00:34:20,239
Speaker 2: Didn't really belong didn't have.

613
00:34:20,400 --> 00:34:22,640
Speaker 1: Because it challenged other people to then have to get

614
00:34:22,680 --> 00:34:26,240
Speaker 1: out of their box, didn't have people projecting their own

615
00:34:26,920 --> 00:34:29,680
Speaker 1: worries about what it is that you're doing.

616
00:34:30,680 --> 00:34:37,920
Speaker 2: And because I felt like I never belonged anywhere, the

617
00:34:38,040 --> 00:34:39,959
Speaker 2: exterior got a little rougher.

618
00:34:41,320 --> 00:34:44,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm a different person than I was, you know.

619
00:34:45,080 --> 00:34:47,839
Speaker 2: And so it got so rough that it got extremely

620
00:34:47,920 --> 00:34:51,680
Speaker 2: soft because I think I've experienced with yourself, with not

621
00:34:51,719 --> 00:34:55,399
Speaker 2: only with myself, but with other people now that are

622
00:34:55,440 --> 00:34:58,480
Speaker 2: told they're not quite like the rest, and where they

623
00:34:58,520 --> 00:35:01,839
Speaker 2: feel like that's a bad thing, that'll end up being

624
00:35:02,000 --> 00:35:07,560
Speaker 2: the thing. That is the way you will be successful

625
00:35:08,520 --> 00:35:13,040
Speaker 2: beyond mildly successful. Right, And if your goal is to

626
00:35:13,040 --> 00:35:15,359
Speaker 2: be mildly successful, there's a pattern and you can do

627
00:35:15,400 --> 00:35:18,080
Speaker 2: the I'm gonna make this type of song. You gonna

628
00:35:18,080 --> 00:35:19,360
Speaker 2: have a certain amount of talent makes this type of

629
00:35:19,360 --> 00:35:22,640
Speaker 2: song gonna sound this way. I'm gonna do it. Okay,

630
00:35:22,640 --> 00:35:24,640
Speaker 2: you'll be monley successful, like be like everybody else. Good

631
00:35:24,680 --> 00:35:26,160
Speaker 2: for you. You go and you do some shows, you'll

632
00:35:26,160 --> 00:35:28,080
Speaker 2: have a five year window of a shelf life of

633
00:35:28,120 --> 00:35:30,319
Speaker 2: a career as an artist, and you'll go about your

634
00:35:30,320 --> 00:35:32,520
Speaker 2: way and play your hits forever and you'll be mindly successful.

635
00:35:32,520 --> 00:35:34,080
Speaker 2: That's great if that's your goal. But if it's to

636
00:35:34,080 --> 00:35:37,360
Speaker 2: be like transcendent and different, you have to be different,

637
00:35:37,440 --> 00:35:43,560
Speaker 2: and that's hurts and that's awkward for everybody. And it's

638
00:35:43,600 --> 00:35:49,080
Speaker 2: cool to see that now happen with you, because that's all.

639
00:35:49,280 --> 00:35:51,400
Speaker 2: It sucked for a while and you've been different and

640
00:35:51,440 --> 00:35:53,640
Speaker 2: it's been awkward, and people are like, we don't know

641
00:35:53,680 --> 00:35:54,239
Speaker 2: what to do with you.

642
00:35:54,800 --> 00:35:58,839
Speaker 1: Yeah, I didn't necessarily make it really easy for like the.

643
00:35:58,760 --> 00:36:03,600
Speaker 2: Powers that be, okay, but you were always things conditioned

644
00:36:03,640 --> 00:36:06,520
Speaker 2: you to not make it easy also, Right, So I

645
00:36:06,560 --> 00:36:08,239
Speaker 2: don't think you're a person that just decided I want

646
00:36:08,239 --> 00:36:09,799
Speaker 2: to be difficult to work with. You're not. That's not you.

647
00:36:10,040 --> 00:36:11,839
Speaker 2: But I can understand how being jerked around a bunch

648
00:36:11,840 --> 00:36:13,680
Speaker 2: of times or being told that something over and over

649
00:36:13,719 --> 00:36:17,080
Speaker 2: again would make you not easy to deal with, because

650
00:36:17,120 --> 00:36:18,880
Speaker 2: it hasn't been easy to be dealt with, right.

651
00:36:20,239 --> 00:36:22,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I'm not afraid to work hard. You're not

652
00:36:22,280 --> 00:36:26,920
Speaker 1: afraid to work hard, but I am not willing to

653
00:36:26,960 --> 00:36:31,040
Speaker 1: do work that I feel like is a shortcut or

654
00:36:31,960 --> 00:36:33,439
Speaker 1: just a compromise all the time.

655
00:36:33,520 --> 00:36:36,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, I go. I'm pure investment now, like I'm not

656
00:36:36,560 --> 00:36:40,440
Speaker 2: doing I'm not investing in anything time, energy, money, who

657
00:36:40,440 --> 00:36:42,879
Speaker 2: cares that that? But creatively, I'm not investing anything less.

658
00:36:42,920 --> 00:36:43,319
Speaker 2: It's pure.

659
00:36:43,760 --> 00:36:44,520
Speaker 1: Yeah.

660
00:36:44,560 --> 00:36:45,560
Speaker 2: And if it's.

661
00:36:45,880 --> 00:36:48,040
Speaker 1: Because you've been around long enough, you're not going anywhere.

662
00:36:48,040 --> 00:36:51,399
Speaker 1: You're gonna have to live with that credit.

663
00:36:51,440 --> 00:36:54,319
Speaker 2: It exists forever, and I've and it's okay if it

664
00:36:54,360 --> 00:36:58,440
Speaker 2: doesn't work, yeah, because it's not worked a lot of times.

665
00:36:58,840 --> 00:37:00,600
Speaker 1: Well, and look at all this, I feel like there's

666
00:37:00,600 --> 00:37:03,560
Speaker 1: so much music now that the one good thing I

667
00:37:03,560 --> 00:37:05,919
Speaker 1: will say about TikTok is there's songs that are four

668
00:37:06,000 --> 00:37:11,240
Speaker 1: years old from these Sacred Souls that's just now popping off.

669
00:37:11,280 --> 00:37:11,680
Speaker 2: It's like.

670
00:37:13,120 --> 00:37:16,920
Speaker 1: Everything you do is worth doing well because even if

671
00:37:16,920 --> 00:37:20,080
Speaker 1: it lies dormant for a while. Like I know, people

672
00:37:20,080 --> 00:37:23,640
Speaker 1: are now discovering this record because of the Grammy nomination,

673
00:37:23,719 --> 00:37:27,640
Speaker 1: but there's songs from previous albums that people know now

674
00:37:27,640 --> 00:37:30,319
Speaker 1: that they wouldn't have known, and I'm glad I made

675
00:37:30,320 --> 00:37:34,480
Speaker 1: those with the best intentions.

676
00:37:35,040 --> 00:37:41,480
Speaker 2: I appreciate being scared now. Yeah, I think I was.

677
00:37:44,400 --> 00:37:49,000
Speaker 2: There was an expected node to everything, and so I

678
00:37:49,120 --> 00:37:54,319
Speaker 2: was always fighting and angry or trying to prove myself.

679
00:37:55,080 --> 00:38:00,440
Speaker 2: And now creatively, I give you an example my comedy

680
00:38:00,480 --> 00:38:03,480
Speaker 2: special right, and it's it's gonna be terrible.

681
00:38:04,200 --> 00:38:08,000
Speaker 1: Why what do you mean? I wasn't expecting sentenced that way.

682
00:38:08,000 --> 00:38:09,440
Speaker 2: I look at it, I hate it. I watch it.

683
00:38:09,680 --> 00:38:13,280
Speaker 2: Oh No, But the thing is, I bet it's awesome.

684
00:38:13,320 --> 00:38:16,759
Speaker 2: I've done this, is it awesome? Nobody's seen it read.

685
00:38:18,120 --> 00:38:20,440
Speaker 2: I've done this enough time. I've hated every book I've written.

686
00:38:21,600 --> 00:38:24,960
Speaker 2: I've hated I've hated everything I've ever done. But it's

687
00:38:25,000 --> 00:38:28,920
Speaker 2: happened so many times, and most, not all, have turned

688
00:38:28,920 --> 00:38:32,600
Speaker 2: into something good or something You've hated every book, Oh

689
00:38:32,640 --> 00:38:34,719
Speaker 2: my god, I couldn't read them back, hated them.

690
00:38:34,840 --> 00:38:37,040
Speaker 1: I don't ride around town listening to my album.

691
00:38:37,000 --> 00:38:40,359
Speaker 2: Cringe, like, don't want it, but I don't.

692
00:38:40,400 --> 00:38:41,120
Speaker 1: It's crazy.

693
00:38:41,320 --> 00:38:44,759
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah so, but but so here's what's fun about it.

694
00:38:45,239 --> 00:38:48,040
Speaker 2: I hate it. I hate my comedy. Special worked extremely

695
00:38:48,080 --> 00:38:51,600
Speaker 2: hard on. It's extremely personal, and it's it's it's and

696
00:38:51,640 --> 00:38:53,799
Speaker 2: it's not even pure. It's again it's awkward because it's

697
00:38:53,840 --> 00:38:57,239
Speaker 2: not pure comedy. It is it's called comedically inspirational. I've

698
00:38:57,280 --> 00:38:59,560
Speaker 2: not seen anything like this, and it could be. It

699
00:38:59,600 --> 00:39:06,840
Speaker 2: could because it's odd, but it's it's fun to be scared,

700
00:39:08,360 --> 00:39:11,840
Speaker 2: and it's fun to hate it because I have to

701
00:39:11,880 --> 00:39:15,120
Speaker 2: go back to loving it while I was touring it.

702
00:39:16,120 --> 00:39:18,480
Speaker 2: I have to go back and remember that, yeah, how

703
00:39:18,520 --> 00:39:21,960
Speaker 2: I felt doing it, how I felt when something would

704
00:39:21,960 --> 00:39:25,239
Speaker 2: work but once it got to the edit part, or

705
00:39:25,280 --> 00:39:28,120
Speaker 2: like I hated it because I was like, this is

706
00:39:28,160 --> 00:39:28,480
Speaker 2: not good.

707
00:39:29,000 --> 00:39:30,040
Speaker 1: You'll fall in love with it.

708
00:39:30,000 --> 00:39:33,040
Speaker 2: Again maybe in five years, honestly, Oh my god. But

709
00:39:33,480 --> 00:39:35,279
Speaker 2: the creative process is a bizarre.

710
00:39:35,600 --> 00:39:42,000
Speaker 1: Right, absolutely, Oh I I felt like I didn't. It

711
00:39:42,040 --> 00:39:44,360
Speaker 1: was painful to even listen to these songs for a

712
00:39:44,440 --> 00:39:47,840
Speaker 1: while when this happened, I just felt like it was

713
00:39:47,880 --> 00:39:52,719
Speaker 1: a it was weaponized against me. And then I kind

714
00:39:52,760 --> 00:39:54,200
Speaker 1: of had to confront it because I was in the

715
00:39:54,200 --> 00:39:56,680
Speaker 1: middle of this tour. I was had to sing these songs.

716
00:39:57,520 --> 00:40:01,560
Speaker 1: But that happened with Havist too, when the pandemic happened.

717
00:40:01,600 --> 00:40:03,839
Speaker 1: That album was done, and then I had to wait

718
00:40:03,880 --> 00:40:07,200
Speaker 1: forever and I couldn't even listen to it. It was too painful,

719
00:40:07,239 --> 00:40:08,680
Speaker 1: But that was more circumstantial.

720
00:40:08,920 --> 00:40:11,680
Speaker 2: Different reasons, Yeah, but same Yeah, like the one, I

721
00:40:11,680 --> 00:40:16,160
Speaker 2: avoid it right, and again, this may be a disaster

722
00:40:16,360 --> 00:40:19,319
Speaker 2: for me and people may go, you're completely unfunny.

723
00:40:19,520 --> 00:40:21,520
Speaker 1: But if I don't get that's not gonna happen.

724
00:40:21,560 --> 00:40:23,560
Speaker 2: No, but it actually might. And that's okay because I'm

725
00:40:23,560 --> 00:40:25,359
Speaker 2: okay with it now. And this is my point about

726
00:40:25,400 --> 00:40:27,840
Speaker 2: all the crap and the nose and the it doesn't

727
00:40:27,880 --> 00:40:31,120
Speaker 2: really work, or that being getting so close to landing

728
00:40:31,120 --> 00:40:33,800
Speaker 2: certain TV jobs and not getting it, and that nothing matters.

729
00:40:34,400 --> 00:40:36,200
Speaker 2: None of that stuff that didn't work in the past.

730
00:40:36,400 --> 00:40:38,840
Speaker 2: It's not connected to me at all right now, like

731
00:40:38,920 --> 00:40:41,520
Speaker 2: I've bombed hard, I've missed things hard. I've gotten so

732
00:40:41,560 --> 00:40:44,400
Speaker 2: close to big things and not gotten them many many times.

733
00:40:44,960 --> 00:40:48,040
Speaker 2: It doesn't matter. But that is I'm wearing none of

734
00:40:48,080 --> 00:40:50,880
Speaker 2: that today, and so if this doesn't work out, it

735
00:40:50,880 --> 00:40:51,400
Speaker 2: doesn't matter.

736
00:40:51,800 --> 00:40:56,239
Speaker 1: I feel like the universe removes those things from your

737
00:40:56,280 --> 00:40:58,600
Speaker 1: path if they're not right. It could have just those

738
00:40:58,719 --> 00:41:03,640
Speaker 1: big opportunities could have become all consuming to you and

739
00:41:03,800 --> 00:41:05,880
Speaker 1: where you would have ended up. But you also have

740
00:41:06,000 --> 00:41:09,440
Speaker 1: these big partners investing in that risk with you. They

741
00:41:09,440 --> 00:41:10,200
Speaker 1: have skin in the game.

742
00:41:10,200 --> 00:41:11,960
Speaker 2: But I'm not even talking about me. I'm just using

743
00:41:12,000 --> 00:41:15,440
Speaker 2: this as an example of the the bizarre world of

744
00:41:15,560 --> 00:41:21,160
Speaker 2: creating and needing approval from people you don't know, hoping

745
00:41:21,160 --> 00:41:25,640
Speaker 2: that what you're doing resonates when you don't know feeling

746
00:41:25,680 --> 00:41:30,160
Speaker 2: great about it. And then again, we have different relationships

747
00:41:30,239 --> 00:41:35,160
Speaker 2: with our art, and that relationship change one hundred times

748
00:41:35,200 --> 00:41:38,000
Speaker 2: in the next fifty years. And now I'm appreciative of

749
00:41:39,560 --> 00:41:42,399
Speaker 2: which is nobody cares for that because I've been able

750
00:41:42,440 --> 00:41:45,480
Speaker 2: to go through crap so many times, right, and I'm

751
00:41:45,520 --> 00:41:47,520
Speaker 2: able to see other people that get put in awkward

752
00:41:47,560 --> 00:41:51,520
Speaker 2: situations and go, hey, it's gonna be good. That's that

753
00:41:51,640 --> 00:41:54,879
Speaker 2: softness though, that's it. That's so hard that it made

754
00:41:54,880 --> 00:41:56,399
Speaker 2: me soft. That's a weird thing to say right there.

755
00:41:56,719 --> 00:41:58,719
Speaker 1: I felt that so hard though, when you said that,

756
00:41:58,840 --> 00:42:03,640
Speaker 1: because it does allow you to get reacquainted with it

757
00:42:03,719 --> 00:42:05,440
Speaker 1: every time you need.

758
00:42:05,280 --> 00:42:08,759
Speaker 2: To, and I yeah, and have peace with it. So

759
00:42:08,920 --> 00:42:13,279
Speaker 2: when you're pregnant and you sing, I feel like it

760
00:42:13,280 --> 00:42:20,320
Speaker 2: that's not standard anything and everything right, like diaphragm.

761
00:42:20,080 --> 00:42:23,799
Speaker 1: Yes, you're a diaphragm. Like it has to be pretty strong.

762
00:42:24,040 --> 00:42:26,200
Speaker 2: Does it. I don't know. I don't know pregnant. You know,

763
00:42:26,120 --> 00:42:27,120
Speaker 2: you don't have to tell me. I don't know the

764
00:42:27,200 --> 00:42:29,480
Speaker 2: rules about asking about that. You're allowed, it's okay, but

765
00:42:29,480 --> 00:42:30,360
Speaker 2: I don't even know the rules.

766
00:42:30,880 --> 00:42:34,000
Speaker 1: I'm twenty seven weeks. I'm about to start my seventh month.

767
00:42:35,480 --> 00:42:37,359
Speaker 2: Yeah, even that's tough for me because, yeah, I don't

768
00:42:37,360 --> 00:42:38,200
Speaker 2: really know where that is yet.

769
00:42:38,200 --> 00:42:40,400
Speaker 1: But I also have always been the person who's like,

770
00:42:40,400 --> 00:42:43,000
Speaker 1: do you really need to talk in weeks saying, And

771
00:42:43,080 --> 00:42:45,000
Speaker 1: now that I'm there, it's like, oh, I get why

772
00:42:45,120 --> 00:42:46,920
Speaker 1: they do it, Like when people like my baby is

773
00:42:48,280 --> 00:42:51,200
Speaker 1: fourteen months, I'm like, just say a year. But there's

774
00:42:51,239 --> 00:42:52,160
Speaker 1: a reason, like.

775
00:42:52,520 --> 00:42:53,960
Speaker 2: I should I should start saying he well, I am

776
00:42:53,960 --> 00:42:56,560
Speaker 2: in weeks. I know when they ask, yeah, I'm thirty

777
00:42:56,560 --> 00:42:57,680
Speaker 2: two thousand weeks ago.

778
00:42:57,880 --> 00:42:59,160
Speaker 1: That's not overwhelming at all.

779
00:42:59,320 --> 00:43:04,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, are you singing? Are you performing? Is it a

780
00:43:04,920 --> 00:43:11,680
Speaker 2: slow adjustment? As again, pardon any ignorantly asked pregnancy question. Okay,

781
00:43:11,880 --> 00:43:13,240
Speaker 2: as that grows.

782
00:43:13,560 --> 00:43:14,400
Speaker 1: You don't need to preface it.

783
00:43:14,480 --> 00:43:16,960
Speaker 2: Okay, question Well for the people, because I get messages,

784
00:43:17,120 --> 00:43:20,520
Speaker 2: you ask that question appropriately. So for all the haters

785
00:43:20,520 --> 00:43:24,400
Speaker 2: out there, relax when that grows and it takes up

786
00:43:24,480 --> 00:43:30,120
Speaker 2: space from your tool that you're used to using it,

787
00:43:30,440 --> 00:43:32,560
Speaker 2: is it different and is a slow gradual change?

788
00:43:32,800 --> 00:43:35,719
Speaker 1: I think because I just haven't stopped performing, it's not

789
00:43:35,840 --> 00:43:40,440
Speaker 1: as perceptible to me. Yeah, But like I just cut

790
00:43:40,960 --> 00:43:43,960
Speaker 1: six songs right at the beginning of the year so

791
00:43:44,000 --> 00:43:47,600
Speaker 1: that I would have some songs in the can before

792
00:43:47,600 --> 00:43:50,239
Speaker 1: it gets to the point where you know I'm not

793
00:43:50,280 --> 00:43:51,720
Speaker 1: gonna want to do it And.

794
00:43:51,760 --> 00:43:52,319
Speaker 2: Can you go hard?

795
00:43:52,360 --> 00:43:52,440
Speaker 1: Now?

796
00:43:52,480 --> 00:43:53,839
Speaker 2: Can you sing hard? Still? Yes?

797
00:43:54,239 --> 00:43:56,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm doing Jimmy Kimmel.

798
00:43:56,120 --> 00:43:58,040
Speaker 2: Next week's congratulations.

799
00:43:58,080 --> 00:44:00,000
Speaker 1: So that's going to be probably one of the last

800
00:44:00,120 --> 00:44:04,040
Speaker 1: big performances, and then we do performing a couple of

801
00:44:04,120 --> 00:44:09,239
Speaker 1: things around the Grammys and then we'll peace out for

802
00:44:09,719 --> 00:44:11,160
Speaker 1: maternity leave for a little bit.

803
00:44:12,200 --> 00:44:17,319
Speaker 2: Ironny, you get don it for a Grammy. I think

804
00:44:17,320 --> 00:44:19,920
Speaker 2: it's awesome that you're pregnant, but it's you get down

805
00:44:19,960 --> 00:44:21,759
Speaker 2: it for a Grammy when you could really be on

806
00:44:21,800 --> 00:44:25,880
Speaker 2: the road, right And it's again, both are amazing things,

807
00:44:25,960 --> 00:44:28,560
Speaker 2: but the irony is that it happens right when you

808
00:44:28,600 --> 00:44:30,200
Speaker 2: kind of have to put yourself off for a little bit.

809
00:44:30,400 --> 00:44:32,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, I kind of have to wrap it up for

810
00:44:32,080 --> 00:44:34,600
Speaker 1: a little bit. And that's all I feel like I've

811
00:44:34,640 --> 00:44:39,520
Speaker 1: ever really known is just staying on the road. That's

812
00:44:39,640 --> 00:44:41,960
Speaker 1: kind of how especially you know, when I was more

813
00:44:42,000 --> 00:44:45,480
Speaker 1: of an independent artist, that was how I road tested

814
00:44:45,520 --> 00:44:47,640
Speaker 1: my songs, Like that's how I knew what to put

815
00:44:47,680 --> 00:44:50,359
Speaker 1: on a record. But I don't know, it feels it

816
00:44:50,360 --> 00:44:54,080
Speaker 1: feels kind of awesome just with the music and everything.

817
00:44:54,160 --> 00:44:58,720
Speaker 1: It's something I've wanted to do, which part the starting

818
00:44:58,760 --> 00:45:01,359
Speaker 1: a family obviously when a Grammy something.

819
00:45:01,120 --> 00:45:03,840
Speaker 2: I didn't know. It's both are awesome, yeah, in different ways.

820
00:45:03,920 --> 00:45:06,160
Speaker 2: And just being nominated for a Grammy. It makes people like,

821
00:45:06,200 --> 00:45:07,280
Speaker 2: have you done Kimmel before?

822
00:45:07,440 --> 00:45:07,520
Speaker 1: No?

823
00:45:07,680 --> 00:45:09,040
Speaker 2: Have you done any late night shots before?

824
00:45:09,120 --> 00:45:09,200
Speaker 1: No?

825
00:45:09,640 --> 00:45:13,279
Speaker 2: Because having a Grammy nomination gives you a lot of

826
00:45:13,400 --> 00:45:17,840
Speaker 2: leverage to land the spots. Yes, and I'll just assume

827
00:45:17,880 --> 00:45:20,000
Speaker 2: I'm assuming it didn't hurt. When you have a Grammy nomination,

828
00:45:20,080 --> 00:45:21,719
Speaker 2: you're like, I want to come to Jimmy Kimmel or

829
00:45:21,760 --> 00:45:24,160
Speaker 2: they call you and goat like that's probably a big

830
00:45:24,200 --> 00:45:27,040
Speaker 2: part of why they were put on too, you unless

831
00:45:27,080 --> 00:45:28,839
Speaker 2: there's like a great music producer that happens to where

832
00:45:28,840 --> 00:45:31,080
Speaker 2: they just know really good music and they're looking for

833
00:45:31,120 --> 00:45:33,319
Speaker 2: an opportunity to put somebody on that they really like,

834
00:45:33,840 --> 00:45:39,200
Speaker 2: but they can't really convince their higher ups yet because so.

835
00:45:38,640 --> 00:45:42,160
Speaker 1: This music supervisor at Kimmel, who is it? Jim Pitt?

836
00:45:42,440 --> 00:45:46,960
Speaker 1: And I know that he's been interested in booking us, and.

837
00:45:46,760 --> 00:45:48,480
Speaker 2: That's what I mean, like he probably is wanted it,

838
00:45:48,600 --> 00:45:49,080
Speaker 2: but you.

839
00:45:49,040 --> 00:45:53,680
Speaker 1: Know, this does move the needlet bit. And you know,

840
00:45:53,719 --> 00:45:57,200
Speaker 1: there was an offer for us to do it earlier

841
00:45:57,239 --> 00:45:59,640
Speaker 1: in December, and two of my bandmates was like, the

842
00:45:59,640 --> 00:46:02,200
Speaker 1: only I'd given the band off all year. They'd just

843
00:46:02,239 --> 00:46:05,319
Speaker 1: got into Hawaii and it was Monday. They wanted us

844
00:46:05,360 --> 00:46:10,160
Speaker 1: on Wednesday, and that was really hard to not be

845
00:46:10,200 --> 00:46:12,640
Speaker 1: able to just jump at and do. And then the

846
00:46:12,640 --> 00:46:16,200
Speaker 1: first Monday of this year they they made good on

847
00:46:16,200 --> 00:46:18,720
Speaker 1: the date and invited us back. But it is funny

848
00:46:18,760 --> 00:46:22,879
Speaker 1: that all these very visible opportunities are coming when I'm

849
00:46:22,960 --> 00:46:27,279
Speaker 1: like aesthetically just different than you know, I normally would be.

850
00:46:27,960 --> 00:46:31,759
Speaker 1: But I also have always said that it would be

851
00:46:31,880 --> 00:46:36,560
Speaker 1: nice to see more female performers that are pregnant kind

852
00:46:36,560 --> 00:46:40,520
Speaker 1: of out there doing it because I think there's no

853
00:46:40,600 --> 00:46:43,080
Speaker 1: stigma to it, and for what I do, I feel

854
00:46:43,080 --> 00:46:47,320
Speaker 1: like it's definitely just, you know, part of the process.

855
00:46:47,360 --> 00:46:49,200
Speaker 1: It's just my life and I'll figure it out.

856
00:46:49,480 --> 00:46:51,759
Speaker 2: Stigma is interesting because that word doesn't even come to mind.

857
00:46:51,800 --> 00:46:54,040
Speaker 2: I'm also not a woman right right, and I'm not

858
00:46:54,080 --> 00:46:58,279
Speaker 2: feeling the things emotionally or the pressures that you are,

859
00:46:58,400 --> 00:47:02,080
Speaker 2: So I say that, but I don't think stigma. I

860
00:47:02,120 --> 00:47:05,359
Speaker 2: think if I were pregnant, I just wouldn't want to sing, right, Like,

861
00:47:05,360 --> 00:47:07,279
Speaker 2: that's literally what I would be, like, Yeah, we don't

862
00:47:07,280 --> 00:47:11,200
Speaker 2: see a lot of people that are performing pregnant, and

863
00:47:11,239 --> 00:47:13,359
Speaker 2: I in my head go, yeah, I definitely wouldn't want

864
00:47:13,360 --> 00:47:16,880
Speaker 2: to perform pregnant. Because physically wouldn't feel good.

865
00:47:16,520 --> 00:47:19,719
Speaker 1: I've been really lucky. I felt good. And also just

866
00:47:20,040 --> 00:47:24,520
Speaker 1: I love singing physically. I think there's something about just

867
00:47:24,560 --> 00:47:27,840
Speaker 1: the act of doing that that's very satisfying to me.

868
00:47:28,480 --> 00:47:31,719
Speaker 2: Also, you're really good. I don't have us I'm not

869
00:47:31,760 --> 00:47:34,640
Speaker 2: fishing say nothing back to this positive about me. I

870
00:47:34,640 --> 00:47:37,480
Speaker 2: don't have a single skill that is half as good

871
00:47:37,520 --> 00:47:40,919
Speaker 2: as you singing, and so.

872
00:47:41,040 --> 00:47:42,440
Speaker 1: I will not allow that comment.

873
00:47:42,600 --> 00:47:45,200
Speaker 2: But I truly believe that with all of my heart, Like,

874
00:47:45,239 --> 00:47:49,640
Speaker 2: you are really one of the great vocalists, just period.

875
00:47:49,680 --> 00:47:51,880
Speaker 2: And I've been lucky enough to know you for a decade.

876
00:47:51,920 --> 00:47:54,640
Speaker 2: At this point, it has been it's been over ten

877
00:47:54,719 --> 00:47:56,400
Speaker 2: years ago, yeah, or right at it.

878
00:47:56,560 --> 00:47:59,520
Speaker 1: I'm about to tip my seventeen year in Nashville. How

879
00:47:59,560 --> 00:48:03,160
Speaker 1: many seventeen years? But I really feel like, and I'm

880
00:48:03,160 --> 00:48:05,759
Speaker 1: not just saying this because I'm sitting with you, Like

881
00:48:05,840 --> 00:48:08,680
Speaker 1: the ten year town process for me began around the

882
00:48:08,719 --> 00:48:11,799
Speaker 1: time that we met, and that's when I started I

883
00:48:11,800 --> 00:48:15,480
Speaker 1: think doing things more on my terms. Like that's when

884
00:48:15,480 --> 00:48:17,680
Speaker 1: the clock really started, because the first seven years were

885
00:48:18,360 --> 00:48:19,600
Speaker 1: crazy and I was thrown around.

886
00:48:19,640 --> 00:48:21,279
Speaker 2: I don't know that seven years, so i'd like to

887
00:48:21,280 --> 00:48:23,319
Speaker 2: know about that seven years if we can, because I

888
00:48:23,320 --> 00:48:26,120
Speaker 2: do want to come back to the Grammys and how

889
00:48:26,719 --> 00:48:30,520
Speaker 2: I have lots of questions, But again, I do know you.

890
00:48:30,920 --> 00:48:31,560
Speaker 2: I do know you.

891
00:48:31,800 --> 00:48:34,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, You've given me lots of really great moments too.

892
00:48:34,920 --> 00:48:37,239
Speaker 2: And it's I know some people in their acquaintances, but

893
00:48:37,280 --> 00:48:38,920
Speaker 2: like I know you. I would say I know you

894
00:48:39,120 --> 00:48:41,080
Speaker 2: like because we've been on the road together years ago.

895
00:48:41,160 --> 00:48:43,600
Speaker 2: We you know, talk on the phone. I'm talking on

896
00:48:43,600 --> 00:48:45,439
Speaker 2: the phone to anybody. I hate talking on the phone.

897
00:48:45,440 --> 00:48:47,759
Speaker 2: It's the worst thing talking on the phone. It's the

898
00:48:47,800 --> 00:48:48,520
Speaker 2: literal worst thing.

899
00:48:48,560 --> 00:48:50,160
Speaker 1: Oh I feel I enjoy a phone call.

900
00:48:50,200 --> 00:48:50,880
Speaker 2: I hate a phone call.

901
00:48:51,120 --> 00:48:52,719
Speaker 1: So I have to be in the right mood. But

902
00:48:53,080 --> 00:48:54,560
Speaker 1: if I am there long.

903
00:48:54,480 --> 00:48:57,600
Speaker 2: When did you come to town? Why did you come to town?

904
00:48:57,640 --> 00:48:59,399
Speaker 2: And what was the expectation you had when you got

905
00:48:59,400 --> 00:49:00,120
Speaker 2: to town?

906
00:49:00,360 --> 00:49:04,360
Speaker 1: I was nineteen. It was January fourteenth, two thousand and

907
00:49:04,400 --> 00:49:09,799
Speaker 1: eight that I moved into my apartment, which is very

908
00:49:09,840 --> 00:49:13,439
Speaker 1: awesome because I'll be performing Kimmel the same day as

909
00:49:13,520 --> 00:49:20,879
Speaker 1: my anniversary. And I moved here with Tommy Mottola kind

910
00:49:20,880 --> 00:49:23,200
Speaker 1: of as like the liaison for me.

911
00:49:23,760 --> 00:49:27,080
Speaker 2: Sony guy. Yeah, Mary Carry's my husband. In that order.

912
00:49:27,560 --> 00:49:28,960
Speaker 2: What I would think of when you say that, Yeah,

913
00:49:29,000 --> 00:49:29,799
Speaker 2: me too.

914
00:49:30,160 --> 00:49:33,200
Speaker 1: And he was a pretty old school kind of like

915
00:49:33,680 --> 00:49:36,880
Speaker 1: how do you know him? I met him through a

916
00:49:36,920 --> 00:49:41,799
Speaker 1: family friend of mine who actually was like my financier

917
00:49:41,960 --> 00:49:45,040
Speaker 1: in the beginning. He helped fund a lot of my

918
00:49:45,360 --> 00:49:50,840
Speaker 1: music and projects. And I got to go to Tommy

919
00:49:50,880 --> 00:49:56,480
Speaker 1: Mattola's office because my friend Tom Totelly, who is still

920
00:49:56,480 --> 00:49:58,560
Speaker 1: a friend, He's going to come to the Grammys with us,

921
00:49:58,960 --> 00:50:02,080
Speaker 1: even though he's not directly involved in my career. He

922
00:50:02,120 --> 00:50:06,359
Speaker 1: was there from the beginning, so it felt kind of

923
00:50:06,520 --> 00:50:09,880
Speaker 1: meaningful to have him there. But he had a business

924
00:50:09,960 --> 00:50:14,960
Speaker 1: associate who knew Tommy, and by some miracle, we caught

925
00:50:15,000 --> 00:50:17,959
Speaker 1: him on a day where he was open to having

926
00:50:18,000 --> 00:50:22,160
Speaker 1: me visit him at his office, which was in Bergdorf Goodman,

927
00:50:23,120 --> 00:50:26,399
Speaker 1: and I was so green. I just like walked in there. Yeah,

928
00:50:26,880 --> 00:50:29,400
Speaker 1: played three songs and the melodies were strong, Like I

929
00:50:29,400 --> 00:50:33,640
Speaker 1: think he obviously saw that there was something there, and

930
00:50:33,760 --> 00:50:37,680
Speaker 1: he agreed to kind of be a consultant. I guess

931
00:50:37,719 --> 00:50:41,839
Speaker 1: for my initial move to Nashville. That's how I got

932
00:50:41,880 --> 00:50:46,200
Speaker 1: signed to Republic before Republic Nashville even existed, So I

933
00:50:46,280 --> 00:50:49,279
Speaker 1: was working with the New York office but operating out

934
00:50:49,320 --> 00:50:55,799
Speaker 1: of Nashville, and I just was on this track to

935
00:50:56,080 --> 00:50:58,680
Speaker 1: put some music together in six months. So I was

936
00:50:58,719 --> 00:51:03,400
Speaker 1: writing with all these amazing writers and did not know

937
00:51:03,440 --> 00:51:05,319
Speaker 1: who I was, you know. I think it was like

938
00:51:05,360 --> 00:51:08,840
Speaker 1: a baptism by fire experience because I was who knows.

939
00:51:08,719 --> 00:51:10,680
Speaker 2: Who they are at nineteen though, even though I'm in

940
00:51:10,760 --> 00:51:12,839
Speaker 2: much less an artist, which well, and I.

941
00:51:12,760 --> 00:51:17,879
Speaker 1: Think a lot of those initial years I learned so much,

942
00:51:18,000 --> 00:51:21,359
Speaker 1: but I was course correcting a lot of it. It's

943
00:51:21,360 --> 00:51:25,759
Speaker 1: almost harder to undo those first impressions because you want

944
00:51:25,800 --> 00:51:30,560
Speaker 1: to be intentional about who you represent yourself to be.

945
00:51:31,400 --> 00:51:34,520
Speaker 1: And I just didn't really get that opportunity. And I

946
00:51:34,520 --> 00:51:37,080
Speaker 1: don't think there were any bad actors in that. It

947
00:51:37,160 --> 00:51:41,800
Speaker 1: was just we had a very powerful person in Tommy

948
00:51:41,960 --> 00:51:45,680
Speaker 1: saying like, you know, you're gonna be a star, and

949
00:51:45,719 --> 00:51:47,480
Speaker 1: we're gonna do a music video and do this and that,

950
00:51:47,560 --> 00:51:51,880
Speaker 1: and that's just really, first of all, not not exactly

951
00:51:51,920 --> 00:51:54,680
Speaker 1: my aspiration. I want to have a sustainable career and

952
00:51:54,719 --> 00:51:57,839
Speaker 1: make lots of different types of music for a very

953
00:51:57,880 --> 00:52:01,280
Speaker 1: long time. And that's also how the Kings of leon

954
00:52:01,360 --> 00:52:06,200
Speaker 1: Cover came to be of use. Somebody, and at that

955
00:52:06,280 --> 00:52:08,439
Speaker 1: time I already had some other music that probably would

956
00:52:08,480 --> 00:52:12,040
Speaker 1: have sent me musically on a more accurate path to

957
00:52:12,040 --> 00:52:15,120
Speaker 1: where I've ended up. But we were just kind of

958
00:52:15,880 --> 00:52:20,720
Speaker 1: firing from the hip and that Republic deal fell apart.

959
00:52:20,719 --> 00:52:25,759
Speaker 1: It was a singles deal, and Scott Roshadow was kind

960
00:52:25,760 --> 00:52:28,600
Speaker 1: of involved, but not really like everyone was like one

961
00:52:28,600 --> 00:52:33,680
Speaker 1: foot in, one foot out, And I also think understandably

962
00:52:34,120 --> 00:52:37,279
Speaker 1: Scott probably didn't want to be told by someone in

963
00:52:37,280 --> 00:52:39,360
Speaker 1: New York who he was and was not going to

964
00:52:39,440 --> 00:52:39,879
Speaker 1: work with.

965
00:52:40,480 --> 00:52:42,319
Speaker 2: What's difficult about the one foot in one foot out,

966
00:52:42,320 --> 00:52:45,319
Speaker 2: because I've had experiences with that in my career. Is

967
00:52:46,440 --> 00:52:50,560
Speaker 2: the one foot in is in case you pop and

968
00:52:50,600 --> 00:52:51,160
Speaker 2: you make it.

969
00:52:51,640 --> 00:52:53,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, it felt very conditional.

970
00:52:53,280 --> 00:52:56,120
Speaker 2: The one foot out is I'm not committed, and I

971
00:52:56,120 --> 00:52:57,920
Speaker 2: don't plan to be committed unless you pop and you

972
00:52:58,000 --> 00:52:59,640
Speaker 2: make it. But if you do, I got my foot in.

973
00:53:00,080 --> 00:53:03,520
Speaker 2: I'm happy to like throw throw some support occasionally, but

974
00:53:03,640 --> 00:53:06,200
Speaker 2: unless you have unless you're building your own momentum. In

975
00:53:06,200 --> 00:53:10,000
Speaker 2: my experience with one footers, that one foot out is

976
00:53:10,000 --> 00:53:12,560
Speaker 2: the dominant foot. Yeah, that one foot in is the

977
00:53:12,960 --> 00:53:14,400
Speaker 2: I got to foot in and I'm gonna help a

978
00:53:14,400 --> 00:53:16,920
Speaker 2: little bit. But it's only really here because if it pops,

979
00:53:16,960 --> 00:53:18,160
Speaker 2: I want to be able to get both feed in.

980
00:53:18,440 --> 00:53:21,200
Speaker 1: Yeah. I like the term one footers. Yeah, it's happening

981
00:53:21,200 --> 00:53:23,640
Speaker 1: all the time right now. I agree just with how

982
00:53:23,680 --> 00:53:27,480
Speaker 1: disposable I think we treat so many of our artists

983
00:53:27,480 --> 00:53:30,560
Speaker 1: in town, Like a lot of the labels around town

984
00:53:30,560 --> 00:53:34,680
Speaker 1: are signing up a bunch of TikTok artists because you know,

985
00:53:34,800 --> 00:53:36,839
Speaker 1: if it works, it works, but there's not a lot

986
00:53:36,840 --> 00:53:37,640
Speaker 1: of development.

987
00:53:38,040 --> 00:53:39,759
Speaker 2: And also the label aren't committing a whole lot to

988
00:53:39,760 --> 00:53:43,960
Speaker 2: it either, right, I mean on the front side, we're

989
00:53:43,960 --> 00:53:46,279
Speaker 2: going to commit and like you said, singles, it's a

990
00:53:46,320 --> 00:53:50,319
Speaker 2: new version of that. Yeah, but they're able to now

991
00:53:50,400 --> 00:53:53,200
Speaker 2: because I think there's been so much failure with the

992
00:53:53,280 --> 00:53:56,040
Speaker 2: TikTok artists. There have really been some that have popped,

993
00:53:56,160 --> 00:53:58,560
Speaker 2: no doubt about it. But you're right, it was a

994
00:53:58,600 --> 00:54:01,560
Speaker 2: cattle call of all cattle that have had songs have

995
00:54:01,600 --> 00:54:05,000
Speaker 2: gone viral, and a race to sign them all. Yeah,

996
00:54:05,040 --> 00:54:09,239
Speaker 2: and how that's really translated in the way of you

997
00:54:09,320 --> 00:54:12,640
Speaker 2: got a couple of good ones and thirteen that didn't

998
00:54:12,719 --> 00:54:15,920
Speaker 2: quite work out. And I think now it's starting to

999
00:54:16,040 --> 00:54:19,719
Speaker 2: even itself out a bit a bit more where it's

1000
00:54:19,760 --> 00:54:24,560
Speaker 2: not totally on an algorithm because you're about two years ago,

1001
00:54:24,600 --> 00:54:28,280
Speaker 2: that's all it was, right. They were only signing people,

1002
00:54:28,440 --> 00:54:28,719
Speaker 2: and it.

1003
00:54:28,680 --> 00:54:31,040
Speaker 1: Was devastating to the people who thought they had gotten

1004
00:54:31,040 --> 00:54:32,560
Speaker 1: that opportunity.

1005
00:54:31,960 --> 00:54:33,839
Speaker 2: And that we're looking to have a sustain like PA

1006
00:54:33,920 --> 00:54:34,799
Speaker 2: in that career.

1007
00:54:34,560 --> 00:54:37,879
Speaker 1: And they couldn't put a thirty minute live set together.

1008
00:54:37,760 --> 00:54:39,920
Speaker 2: Because did you feel like you were going to be

1009
00:54:39,920 --> 00:54:42,799
Speaker 2: because of the people that you had around you, even

1010
00:54:42,800 --> 00:54:47,040
Speaker 2: if it was temporary or momentary, did you feel like

1011
00:54:47,560 --> 00:54:49,560
Speaker 2: in your heart like, oh I'm here, it's star time,

1012
00:54:49,719 --> 00:54:51,440
Speaker 2: Like I got Oh yeah.

1013
00:54:51,040 --> 00:54:56,280
Speaker 1: I felt like I was following the full proof template

1014
00:54:56,480 --> 00:54:58,880
Speaker 1: that had worked so many times for so many people.

1015
00:54:59,520 --> 00:55:02,080
Speaker 1: And you know, I pushed back a little bit at

1016
00:55:02,080 --> 00:55:05,040
Speaker 1: the suggestion of doing the Kings of leoncover because I

1017
00:55:05,080 --> 00:55:07,640
Speaker 1: was like, why would I do someone else's song when

1018
00:55:07,680 --> 00:55:13,080
Speaker 1: I have these originals that I think are more representative

1019
00:55:13,080 --> 00:55:16,480
Speaker 1: of who I am. It was like, just do this

1020
00:55:16,600 --> 00:55:19,560
Speaker 1: and then you can go do it your way like

1021
00:55:19,600 --> 00:55:22,160
Speaker 1: that was always kind of the mantra I was hearing,

1022
00:55:22,560 --> 00:55:26,359
Speaker 1: which you know, that's just never really the case. And

1023
00:55:27,600 --> 00:55:29,200
Speaker 1: when it didn't work out, I felt like I just

1024
00:55:29,280 --> 00:55:32,480
Speaker 1: kind of had to put the pieces back together and

1025
00:55:32,520 --> 00:55:35,120
Speaker 1: that there are a few iterations of that over the years.

1026
00:55:35,160 --> 00:55:38,800
Speaker 1: Like I even went back to the drawing board and

1027
00:55:39,080 --> 00:55:41,120
Speaker 1: I was like, I'm going to go buy Maggie Rose

1028
00:55:41,160 --> 00:55:43,799
Speaker 1: now and I'm going to reclaim Mike because it was

1029
00:55:44,239 --> 00:55:47,560
Speaker 1: it was my government name, Margaret Duranny.

1030
00:55:48,360 --> 00:55:51,239
Speaker 2: I didn't see. I didn't know that. Yeah, so you

1031
00:55:51,320 --> 00:55:53,480
Speaker 2: were Margaret though, well when you did your very first

1032
00:55:53,520 --> 00:55:55,400
Speaker 2: introductions to people, it was Margaret.

1033
00:55:55,520 --> 00:55:55,719
Speaker 1: Yes.

1034
00:55:55,760 --> 00:55:56,800
Speaker 2: I never met Margaret.

1035
00:55:57,080 --> 00:55:59,600
Speaker 1: No. No, maybe not well you know Margaret.

1036
00:55:59,280 --> 00:56:02,239
Speaker 2: Yes, but I never met Hi. I'm Margaret, right, you

1037
00:56:02,320 --> 00:56:04,799
Speaker 2: were Maggie by the time that I that I met you.

1038
00:56:05,000 --> 00:56:07,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, And that was sort of me trying to take

1039
00:56:07,800 --> 00:56:12,120
Speaker 1: my power back and get another crack at that first impression,

1040
00:56:13,040 --> 00:56:16,839
Speaker 1: and there was like not just you know, I cut

1041
00:56:16,880 --> 00:56:20,200
Speaker 1: my hair off and I started writing all sorts of

1042
00:56:20,320 --> 00:56:23,759
Speaker 1: music and performing live was a big way for me

1043
00:56:23,880 --> 00:56:27,920
Speaker 1: to explore what kind of music I wanted to end

1044
00:56:27,960 --> 00:56:32,759
Speaker 1: up recording. But then even then I was dealing with

1045
00:56:33,520 --> 00:56:38,799
Speaker 1: country radio and all the confinements of that, and it

1046
00:56:38,920 --> 00:56:44,319
Speaker 1: was just tough. There was it was felt very one dimensional,

1047
00:56:44,680 --> 00:56:47,319
Speaker 1: like your whole life was poured into the success of

1048
00:56:47,640 --> 00:56:50,120
Speaker 1: whatever radio single you chose, and that could be your

1049
00:56:50,239 --> 00:56:53,840
Speaker 1: entire year. That's how people know you. And I just

1050
00:56:53,920 --> 00:56:59,400
Speaker 1: felt like, in a lot of ways when it just

1051
00:56:59,440 --> 00:57:02,600
Speaker 1: became on Cannibal, that that's maybe the best thing that

1052
00:57:02,719 --> 00:57:05,080
Speaker 1: happened to me. Like my label folded, I knew you

1053
00:57:05,160 --> 00:57:08,759
Speaker 1: at this point, and I had a song out at

1054
00:57:08,920 --> 00:57:13,360
Speaker 1: radio that I was told by the label I was

1055
00:57:13,400 --> 00:57:16,320
Speaker 1: with at the time, and all my programming friends like,

1056
00:57:16,360 --> 00:57:19,880
Speaker 1: that's testing the best. You gotta go put out a

1057
00:57:19,920 --> 00:57:23,720
Speaker 1: girl in your truck song, which that's not who I

1058
00:57:23,760 --> 00:57:26,280
Speaker 1: am either, And then Maddie and Tay had girl in

1059
00:57:26,280 --> 00:57:29,480
Speaker 1: a country song and just became this David and Goliath thing,

1060
00:57:30,680 --> 00:57:32,280
Speaker 1: and I was like, I don't, why would I want

1061
00:57:32,280 --> 00:57:35,280
Speaker 1: to be here anymore? And put up with that, And

1062
00:57:36,800 --> 00:57:40,439
Speaker 1: I feel like that's when I made change the whole thing,

1063
00:57:40,720 --> 00:57:44,800
Speaker 1: which was just still country in its own way, but

1064
00:57:44,960 --> 00:57:47,000
Speaker 1: like soulful, and I had all my friends in the

1065
00:57:47,040 --> 00:57:51,800
Speaker 1: studio and we recorded a live record, and like that's

1066
00:57:51,800 --> 00:57:54,400
Speaker 1: what I mean by the ten year o'clock kind of

1067
00:57:54,440 --> 00:57:58,560
Speaker 1: starting around that time because I just felt like I

1068
00:57:58,600 --> 00:58:04,160
Speaker 1: had to. I had like almost to do damage control

1069
00:58:04,280 --> 00:58:06,560
Speaker 1: more than take all these years I had invested and

1070
00:58:06,560 --> 00:58:07,360
Speaker 1: build upon them.

1071
00:58:07,480 --> 00:58:10,160
Speaker 2: Do you ever think about leaving yes, did you ever

1072
00:58:10,840 --> 00:58:14,280
Speaker 2: leave for a minute? No, how close you get to leaving.

1073
00:58:15,080 --> 00:58:19,720
Speaker 1: I thought very seriously about moving to la in twenty fifteen.

1074
00:58:20,520 --> 00:58:21,240
Speaker 2: Why didn't you?

1075
00:58:22,680 --> 00:58:26,040
Speaker 1: I think a lot of things happen in Nashville that

1076
00:58:26,920 --> 00:58:33,040
Speaker 1: encouraged me to stay that record. Being able to just

1077
00:58:33,240 --> 00:58:38,080
Speaker 1: make a record with my friends and realized that I

1078
00:58:38,240 --> 00:58:41,040
Speaker 1: was capable without an investor and without a label and

1079
00:58:41,720 --> 00:58:45,440
Speaker 1: like really be hungry for a while and have it

1080
00:58:45,480 --> 00:58:50,080
Speaker 1: turned out the way it did was encouraging. And I think, like,

1081
00:58:50,120 --> 00:58:54,680
Speaker 1: I owe so much of the success I have to

1082
00:58:54,800 --> 00:58:57,400
Speaker 1: this community. I owe a lot of the reasons that

1083
00:58:57,480 --> 00:59:01,120
Speaker 1: I'm better at what I do to like opticles that

1084
00:59:01,200 --> 00:59:05,280
Speaker 1: this city presented me. But I don't know, I feel

1085
00:59:05,320 --> 00:59:08,360
Speaker 1: really really rooted here now.

1086
00:59:08,920 --> 00:59:14,160
Speaker 2: I feel like the common sentiment about you, I would

1087
00:59:14,200 --> 00:59:16,360
Speaker 2: hear this obviously when you weren't around. So that's how

1088
00:59:16,360 --> 00:59:17,720
Speaker 2: you know it's the truth. That's why people say when

1089
00:59:17,760 --> 00:59:20,040
Speaker 2: you're not around. The actual truth is I think a

1090
00:59:20,080 --> 00:59:25,000
Speaker 2: lot of people were frustrated for you. Yeah, meaning it

1091
00:59:25,040 --> 00:59:28,320
Speaker 2: wasn't that they're like, Maggie got screwed over. It was

1092
00:59:29,840 --> 00:59:34,920
Speaker 2: Maggie's awesome in the music she's making awesome, and the

1093
00:59:35,000 --> 00:59:40,439
Speaker 2: landscape of whatever the current popular country format was wasn't

1094
00:59:40,520 --> 00:59:43,080
Speaker 2: exactly where you were. You were ahead of it a bit,

1095
00:59:44,160 --> 00:59:48,080
Speaker 2: and it was just like people just wanted them to match. Yeah,

1096
00:59:48,480 --> 00:59:51,200
Speaker 2: because you're wildly talented and you work very hard, and

1097
00:59:51,200 --> 00:59:56,960
Speaker 2: when those two things come together, that's usually a great combination.

1098
00:59:57,120 --> 00:59:58,400
Speaker 2: And we're seeing it now. As a matter of fact,

1099
00:59:58,400 --> 01:00:00,600
Speaker 2: I mean this is it should probably taken a little longer

1100
01:00:00,640 --> 01:00:02,720
Speaker 2: than you initially thought. Hey, I took it longer me

1101
01:00:02,960 --> 01:00:05,560
Speaker 2: for what I thought too. Yeah, But I think most

1102
01:00:05,560 --> 01:00:08,200
Speaker 2: people were frustrated for you because they knew you and

1103
01:00:08,320 --> 01:00:10,720
Speaker 2: liked you. They would see you perform and were intimidated

1104
01:00:10,760 --> 01:00:14,720
Speaker 2: by you in the best way, and it was like, man,

1105
01:00:14,960 --> 01:00:18,200
Speaker 2: she's either swung and missed so hard or she's ahead

1106
01:00:18,200 --> 01:00:21,880
Speaker 2: of her time. And I think it was the latter,

1107
01:00:23,000 --> 01:00:27,800
Speaker 2: is that you were just a bit ahead of where

1108
01:00:27,880 --> 01:00:32,600
Speaker 2: the landscape of country music is. Maybe so and okay,

1109
01:00:32,640 --> 01:00:35,840
Speaker 2: because I felt frustration for you, did you feel other

1110
01:00:35,880 --> 01:00:39,560
Speaker 2: people being frustrated for you? Yes, yeah, not sad for you.

1111
01:00:39,640 --> 01:00:40,320
Speaker 2: There's a difference.

1112
01:00:41,000 --> 01:00:44,600
Speaker 1: I think it's shared frustration with a lot of artists

1113
01:00:44,640 --> 01:00:50,720
Speaker 1: who are not totally doing like the country thing, or

1114
01:00:50,760 --> 01:00:54,400
Speaker 1: even artists who are country adjacent and can't seem to

1115
01:00:54,480 --> 01:00:56,040
Speaker 1: like click.

1116
01:00:56,640 --> 01:00:58,640
Speaker 2: The funny thing about country adjacent, though, is that country

1117
01:00:58,680 --> 01:01:01,479
Speaker 2: adjacent most of the time ends up being made country. Yeah,

1118
01:01:01,760 --> 01:01:04,520
Speaker 2: Like you can look at Sam Hunt, you can, we can,

1119
01:01:04,600 --> 01:01:06,400
Speaker 2: we can do ten artists who were country adjacent when

1120
01:01:06,400 --> 01:01:09,720
Speaker 2: they came out, and everybody's like that, that's not really it.

1121
01:01:09,720 --> 01:01:12,120
Speaker 2: It's a country adjacent but it was so strong and

1122
01:01:12,200 --> 01:01:16,360
Speaker 2: powerful that it kind of removed the adjacent from itself.

1123
01:01:17,440 --> 01:01:21,160
Speaker 2: And that live record was incredible and even like the

1124
01:01:21,720 --> 01:01:23,520
Speaker 2: media you shot for it, like all that was just

1125
01:01:23,560 --> 01:01:27,560
Speaker 2: such a like a powerful project. Because again, you're you're,

1126
01:01:27,600 --> 01:01:31,000
Speaker 2: you're one of the best. Yeah. I think everybody, just

1127
01:01:31,120 --> 01:01:32,880
Speaker 2: myself included, was like, oh, it's not.

1128
01:01:34,600 --> 01:01:38,520
Speaker 3: If it's when the Bobby Cast will be right back.

1129
01:01:47,080 --> 01:01:49,400
Speaker 3: This is the Bobby Cast.

1130
01:01:49,640 --> 01:01:51,800
Speaker 2: We before you came in, we talked about the album

1131
01:01:51,840 --> 01:01:55,600
Speaker 2: and did a whole deal. And I'm really I'm really

1132
01:01:55,680 --> 01:01:59,919
Speaker 2: happy for you in a way of not like condescending,

1133
01:02:00,160 --> 01:02:03,720
Speaker 2: like I'm happy for you. It's not about the Grammy nomination.

1134
01:02:04,200 --> 01:02:09,400
Speaker 2: It's like when someone owes you money and they finally

1135
01:02:09,400 --> 01:02:10,040
Speaker 2: pay the money.

1136
01:02:10,080 --> 01:02:13,960
Speaker 1: It's like it's like it's a good analogy.

1137
01:02:14,080 --> 01:02:17,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, like I think you're finally getting paid back. Yeah,

1138
01:02:17,480 --> 01:02:17,760
Speaker 2: a bit.

1139
01:02:18,600 --> 01:02:23,600
Speaker 1: So it doesn't feel it feels sturdy in a way

1140
01:02:23,640 --> 01:02:27,760
Speaker 1: that I feel a lot of peace with. Like I'm

1141
01:02:27,880 --> 01:02:32,280
Speaker 1: very excited. I feel like a calm about it. And

1142
01:02:32,320 --> 01:02:34,280
Speaker 1: I think if all these things had happened to me

1143
01:02:34,320 --> 01:02:37,800
Speaker 1: five years ago, I don't know if i'd be as.

1144
01:02:37,920 --> 01:02:39,160
Speaker 2: It wouldn't calm.

1145
01:02:39,320 --> 01:02:42,200
Speaker 1: You kind of needed, probably like let it affect me

1146
01:02:42,240 --> 01:02:43,400
Speaker 1: and get weird or something.

1147
01:02:45,120 --> 01:02:48,840
Speaker 2: I'm a fan. Well likewise, yeah, no, I I'm so

1148
01:02:49,000 --> 01:02:52,440
Speaker 2: happy for you, and you're going to go through this

1149
01:02:52,480 --> 01:02:53,880
Speaker 2: and I'm going to go through this another I don't know,

1150
01:02:53,920 --> 01:02:56,120
Speaker 2: one hundred times in the next twenty years.

1151
01:02:56,880 --> 01:02:59,120
Speaker 1: Well, I can't say we're not ready for it.

1152
01:02:59,240 --> 01:03:01,240
Speaker 2: And we'll have an understand even a little more every

1153
01:03:01,240 --> 01:03:02,800
Speaker 2: single time it happens, and we'll be able to pass

1154
01:03:02,800 --> 01:03:04,960
Speaker 2: that along to other folks too. And you know, how's

1155
01:03:04,960 --> 01:03:06,560
Speaker 2: the podcast going? By the way, you still doing it?

1156
01:03:06,680 --> 01:03:10,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's great. We're doing it live at Chief or

1157
01:03:10,960 --> 01:03:15,840
Speaker 1: Churches Bar. Yes, And I love him. He's been like

1158
01:03:15,920 --> 01:03:20,840
Speaker 1: an interesting friend in all of this stuff. And it's

1159
01:03:20,880 --> 01:03:23,600
Speaker 1: it's all women guests, and I love the fact that

1160
01:03:23,600 --> 01:03:26,400
Speaker 1: it's in front of a live audience because conversations just

1161
01:03:26,440 --> 01:03:30,560
Speaker 1: seem to fly by and everyone's on like you know,

1162
01:03:30,600 --> 01:03:37,480
Speaker 1: they're extra sparkly behavior and there's music involved. But we

1163
01:03:37,560 --> 01:03:40,280
Speaker 1: do it once a month because I wanted to once

1164
01:03:40,320 --> 01:03:42,440
Speaker 1: I came out with a new format. I don't ever

1165
01:03:42,480 --> 01:03:47,760
Speaker 1: want to commit to something and then under deliver. But yeah,

1166
01:03:47,760 --> 01:03:51,080
Speaker 1: we'll have Caitlin Smith on and Britney Spencer and Molly Tuttle,

1167
01:03:52,120 --> 01:03:55,280
Speaker 1: and I just it makes me a better musician to

1168
01:03:55,840 --> 01:03:58,680
Speaker 1: talk to people and to kind of dive into their

1169
01:03:58,760 --> 01:04:01,600
Speaker 1: world and realize as even these people who you think

1170
01:04:02,120 --> 01:04:06,480
Speaker 1: have it all figured out, you know, I've interviewed Melissa

1171
01:04:06,520 --> 01:04:11,360
Speaker 1: Ethridge and Kathy Wilson from Heart and they've just been

1172
01:04:11,440 --> 01:04:14,000
Speaker 1: through it and they're going through it in other ways.

1173
01:04:14,040 --> 01:04:17,840
Speaker 1: I feel like it's is it weird to say that

1174
01:04:17,840 --> 01:04:18,600
Speaker 1: that's comforting?

1175
01:04:19,560 --> 01:04:23,400
Speaker 2: You're not isolated and the loan everyone. It's just nobody's

1176
01:04:23,400 --> 01:04:26,960
Speaker 2: sharing it out openly unless you can have a relationship

1177
01:04:27,000 --> 01:04:30,440
Speaker 2: about it. So yeah, it's not like you and I

1178
01:04:30,480 --> 01:04:33,560
Speaker 2: could have this conversation with many other people that haven't

1179
01:04:33,600 --> 01:04:35,800
Speaker 2: had to suffer through a similar thing. But there are

1180
01:04:35,800 --> 01:04:38,040
Speaker 2: conferences we can't have with people about their you know,

1181
01:04:38,080 --> 01:04:41,320
Speaker 2: you have to find somebody that relates right, because it's weird.

1182
01:04:41,400 --> 01:04:44,600
Speaker 2: Even with my job for the radio show, for example,

1183
01:04:44,640 --> 01:04:46,520
Speaker 2: I will complain like crazy about waking up in the

1184
01:04:46,520 --> 01:04:48,560
Speaker 2: morning and I hate it's worse. I'm not a morning

1185
01:04:48,600 --> 01:04:52,920
Speaker 2: person quite the profession exactly. There's only certain people I

1186
01:04:52,920 --> 01:04:55,440
Speaker 2: can complain to about it and know that it's really

1187
01:04:55,480 --> 01:04:58,960
Speaker 2: not that bad. Like it sucks, I hate it, but

1188
01:04:59,200 --> 01:05:01,640
Speaker 2: in the grand scheme it's okay. Yeah, but I feel

1189
01:05:01,640 --> 01:05:03,800
Speaker 2: like I can really you know, or if I'm on

1190
01:05:03,840 --> 01:05:05,560
Speaker 2: the road a lot, touring and I'm like, it sucks.

1191
01:05:06,480 --> 01:05:08,760
Speaker 2: Someone that knows how sucky it is to be on

1192
01:05:08,800 --> 01:05:11,360
Speaker 2: the road going in the back doors of places eating

1193
01:05:11,400 --> 01:05:14,960
Speaker 2: crabby food. Yea, even though you're telling jokes to fifteen

1194
01:05:15,000 --> 01:05:15,520
Speaker 2: hundred people.

1195
01:05:16,280 --> 01:05:21,800
Speaker 1: You know, it's a juxtaposition loneliness to extreme extra version.

1196
01:05:22,120 --> 01:05:24,360
Speaker 2: I like talking with people that are crazy like me.

1197
01:05:24,920 --> 01:05:26,320
Speaker 2: It doesn't make me feel as crazy.

1198
01:05:27,160 --> 01:05:29,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's exactly it, because.

1199
01:05:28,960 --> 01:05:31,000
Speaker 2: I'm not crazy. They just don't get to share it

1200
01:05:31,120 --> 01:05:33,400
Speaker 2: just the right amount. I have a screw screwless, a

1201
01:05:33,440 --> 01:05:34,880
Speaker 2: couple of screws, a lot of screws.

1202
01:05:34,920 --> 01:05:35,960
Speaker 1: You need to be a little bit.

1203
01:05:36,120 --> 01:05:38,880
Speaker 2: I'm like a I'm like an ikea table that when

1204
01:05:38,880 --> 01:05:41,400
Speaker 2: you're done with it, you got parts left over. Yeah,

1205
01:05:42,160 --> 01:05:43,840
Speaker 2: Like I guess that was supposed to be in there.

1206
01:05:43,920 --> 01:05:46,560
Speaker 2: That's me. Okay, look slut Songbird. That is the podcast

1207
01:05:46,920 --> 01:05:49,960
Speaker 2: we talked about the album a bunch before you got here.

1208
01:05:50,200 --> 01:05:57,240
Speaker 2: Congratulations on the Grammy nomination. And I think you did

1209
01:05:57,320 --> 01:06:01,320
Speaker 2: this awesome. Thank you because I think and I don't know,

1210
01:06:01,480 --> 01:06:04,360
Speaker 2: you may leave and go, how do I like what

1211
01:06:04,360 --> 01:06:06,080
Speaker 2: I said about the things that have been affecting me

1212
01:06:06,080 --> 01:06:09,520
Speaker 2: over the past few months. I think you handled it awesome.

1213
01:06:10,520 --> 01:06:14,840
Speaker 1: I feel well, thank you for saying that. It's also

1214
01:06:15,600 --> 01:06:18,800
Speaker 1: nice to tell the story from this vantage point, you know,

1215
01:06:18,880 --> 01:06:24,600
Speaker 1: I feel having some time between it that event and

1216
01:06:24,720 --> 01:06:27,200
Speaker 1: also just all the great things that have happened at

1217
01:06:27,200 --> 01:06:31,240
Speaker 1: the end of this year, and also like talking about

1218
01:06:31,280 --> 01:06:34,840
Speaker 1: being softer and putting things into perspective, like I'm on

1219
01:06:34,880 --> 01:06:37,840
Speaker 1: the precipice of like one of the most seismic shifts

1220
01:06:37,880 --> 01:06:42,000
Speaker 1: with becoming a mom that you're just like, I'll figure

1221
01:06:42,040 --> 01:06:45,800
Speaker 1: it out. I will, and we just we have like

1222
01:06:45,800 --> 01:06:50,600
Speaker 1: Stapleton dates two months after he arrives, and we're just

1223
01:06:50,600 --> 01:06:53,360
Speaker 1: gonna figure it out. But I think it helps that

1224
01:06:55,880 --> 01:06:59,600
Speaker 1: I don't think there was anyone with malintent in this,

1225
01:07:00,280 --> 01:07:02,680
Speaker 1: just think there was a lack of consideration and I

1226
01:07:02,720 --> 01:07:03,280
Speaker 1: hate that for.

1227
01:07:03,440 --> 01:07:06,880
Speaker 2: Marriage, some embarrassment on their side. Yeah, like like I

1228
01:07:06,880 --> 01:07:09,720
Speaker 2: mean honestly right, maybe at times I've found that where

1229
01:07:09,720 --> 01:07:14,720
Speaker 2: the people are embarrassed and meet stubbornness and they don't

1230
01:07:14,560 --> 01:07:16,280
Speaker 2: want to have to have the hard conversation, but just

1231
01:07:16,320 --> 01:07:17,000
Speaker 2: they're embarrassed.

1232
01:07:17,720 --> 01:07:21,560
Speaker 1: Or if someone feels they're sparing me something, well whatever,

1233
01:07:21,920 --> 01:07:24,959
Speaker 1: the proof is in the pudding with what has happened now,

1234
01:07:25,280 --> 01:07:29,160
Speaker 1: And I think it's like nice for me to share

1235
01:07:29,160 --> 01:07:32,320
Speaker 1: the story for any artists who feels maybe like they're

1236
01:07:33,560 --> 01:07:36,240
Speaker 1: attributing way too much of their value to these things

1237
01:07:36,280 --> 01:07:41,280
Speaker 1: that are totally like circumstantial, and they'll come and go

1238
01:07:41,600 --> 01:07:46,800
Speaker 1: like what you're saying, you just have to keep attempting

1239
01:07:47,120 --> 01:07:50,440
Speaker 1: and try and do it in the most sincere way.

1240
01:07:50,720 --> 01:07:52,320
Speaker 2: It doesn't work because it's not gonna work because if

1241
01:07:52,320 --> 01:07:53,840
Speaker 2: you're a tempting it there, things aren't gonna work.

1242
01:07:53,920 --> 01:07:56,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's that's guaranteed.

1243
01:07:56,920 --> 01:07:59,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, and everything's working and then you're not really trying hard.

1244
01:07:59,560 --> 01:08:03,320
Speaker 1: Enough, yes, yeah, or you're too comfortable, which is what

1245
01:08:03,360 --> 01:08:05,520
Speaker 1: you did when you came in and ruffled all the feathers.

1246
01:08:06,120 --> 01:08:08,920
Speaker 2: I am Maggie Rose, I am not. That's her Instagram name.

1247
01:08:08,960 --> 01:08:12,640
Speaker 2: I am Bobby. Go follow Maggie. Check out the music,

1248
01:08:12,680 --> 01:08:14,360
Speaker 2: and Maggie, good to see you, and good to see you.

1249
01:08:14,920 --> 01:08:18,400
Speaker 2: Good luck and I'll see you. Thanks for listening to

1250
01:08:18,479 --> 01:08:19,799
Speaker 2: a Bobby Cast production.