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Speaker 1: Hey, Daron, welcome back.

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Speaker 2: You have found once again the Book of Joe Podcast

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Speaker 2: with me, Tom Verducci and Joe Madden.

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Speaker 1: Joe, We've got a lot to get into.

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Speaker 2: It's amazing how there's quote unquote nothing going out in

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Speaker 2: the game. But there's a lot of topics I want

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Speaker 2: to get into. I want to talk about what Buster

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Speaker 2: Posey is doing putting his fingerprints on the San Francisco Giants.

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Speaker 2: I want to talk about the future of Rookie of

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Speaker 2: the Year Paul Skens, how good can he be? And

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Speaker 2: I want to talk about what you want to be

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Speaker 2: when you grow up, Not you specifically, Joe, I think

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Speaker 2: you've done okay, I haven't grown up yet Tom, but

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Speaker 2: what kids want to be when they grow up these days.

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Speaker 2: But let me start with a franchise near and dear

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Speaker 2: to your heart, the Tampa Bay Raised Joe, because the

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Speaker 2: news this week has not been good about the Raised

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Speaker 2: future in Saint Petersburg or even the Tampa Bay area.

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Speaker 2: Of course, they need repairs on the roof damaged by

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Speaker 2: the hurricane recently. It's going to cost almost fifty six

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Speaker 2: million dollars to do that, and at the meantime, funding

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Speaker 2: for their ballpark, which they thought they had lined up,

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Speaker 2: got pulled out from under them, at least for the

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Speaker 2: next three weeks, where a vote by the county commissioners

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Speaker 2: was postponed. There's a lot going on there, you know,

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Speaker 2: people are still recovering from that hurricane down there. There's

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Speaker 2: a lot of civic need down there, and I don't

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Speaker 2: think the ballpark is top of the mind right now.

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Speaker 2: But the Rais are saying that this delay, and of

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Speaker 2: course we had an election in between where the board changed,

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Speaker 2: where you now have two people who are not on

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Speaker 2: board quite yet with funding for that ballpark, could change

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Speaker 2: the vote. So the raiser are saying, hey, listen, we

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Speaker 2: may be out of here.

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Speaker 1: Joe. I know this franchise.

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Speaker 2: You know well, you took the raise of their first

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Speaker 2: World Series in the franchise history. I'm really interested in

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Speaker 2: your take here on what the future is for the Rays,

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Speaker 2: even short term. We know they're playing at George Steinberner

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Speaker 2: Field in Tampa this year, but the next three years

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Speaker 2: seem to be really critical, if not the next three months.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, obviously you're one hundred percent. I've been here for

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Speaker 3: a bit. I'm here right now. Actually, I'm actually boots

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Speaker 3: on the ground in Tampa. First of all, yeah, the

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Speaker 3: ballpark and the money, et cetera. And then to invest

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Speaker 3: all that money in Saint Petersburg. I've never really quite

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Speaker 3: understood that. Honestly, there's always been like this small feud

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Speaker 3: between Tampa and Saint Petersburg, and to the point we

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Speaker 3: have to call it Tampa Bay or Tampa Saint Pete

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Speaker 3: quickly to follow. I just never thought there's like a

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Speaker 3: unification component to this area, which they badly need. The

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Speaker 3: Tampa Bay Rays, I think to really survive and prosper

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Speaker 3: would be to put this ballpark on the other side

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Speaker 3: where it's more easily attainable. You just can't drive here, man,

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Speaker 3: it's hard going over the Gandy or going over the

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Speaker 3: Howard Franklin Bridges causeways, whatever you want to call him.

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Speaker 3: Then of a work day is very hard to do.

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Speaker 3: It's difficult. The traffic is that bad, and it's getting worse.

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Speaker 3: It's getting thicker. Saint Petersburg, the other hand, is really

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Speaker 3: ascending as a city, as a hamlet, as whatever you

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Speaker 3: want to call it. They've done some great work there,

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Speaker 3: just the infrastructure, how it looks, restaurants, opportunities, it's really

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Speaker 3: the art district there is outstanding also, and of course

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Speaker 3: the topography is beautiful. There's all of that. But when

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Speaker 3: we used to drive in at two three in the

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Speaker 3: morning from the airport to the ballpark to unload after

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Speaker 3: a road trip, you drive into Saint Pine, I'm thinking

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Speaker 3: to myself, this is more light and take this in

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Speaker 3: the right way because I love the minor leagues, but

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Speaker 3: more of a minor league looking town, how does it

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Speaker 3: support a major league entity with the there's really basically

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Speaker 3: no skyliners that the industry would be tourism primarily, and

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Speaker 3: your ballparks around it by sea creatures more than it

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Speaker 3: is human beings. So there's a lot there that I

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Speaker 3: never quite understood, and I know and I think it's

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Speaker 3: wise also that they're trying to, I believe, build a

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Speaker 3: ballpark into this area that's going to be influential regarding shopping, restaurants,

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Speaker 3: et cetera, not just the ballpark itself, which I think

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Speaker 3: would be the right way to do it. However, Dang,

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Speaker 3: I've always thought two things for this area. Either move

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Speaker 3: it over to Tampa where it's more easily gettable at

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Speaker 3: the end of a work day, and even for that matter,

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Speaker 3: more easily at tannable from surrounding areas there because it's

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Speaker 3: tough to drive around here. It's difficult, and there's not

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Speaker 3: there's no way to really expand the infrastructure when it

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Speaker 3: comes to roads. It it might open up Orlando a little bit.

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Speaker 3: So A either moved to the Tampa Bay area or

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Speaker 3: Tampa area and number two just move. I've always thought that.

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Speaker 3: I back in the days the Teas, I walked into

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Speaker 3: one of the winter meetings and I had Nashville Cats

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Speaker 3: on by love and spoonful I think it was, and

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Speaker 3: I thought that would be a wonderful opportunity just because

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Speaker 3: it's and this is not a slam. I love this area.

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Speaker 3: That's why I'm here. I love Tampa, I love Tampa Bay.

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Speaker 3: I love what they've done in Saint Pete. But over

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Speaker 3: arching to support me major league team not easy to

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Speaker 3: do here. So at some point maybe the Hurricanes answered

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Speaker 3: the question for them. I don't know, but that's what

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Speaker 3: I've always felt. Loved the area, love it, I think

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Speaker 3: it's great, but to support a major league baseball club

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Speaker 3: not easy. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: You made a really good point there, and I certainly

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Speaker 2: appreciate your perspective. This is your perspective is so well

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Speaker 2: informed with your history there, the rivalry between the two counties,

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Speaker 2: It's always kind of boggled my mind to the point

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Speaker 2: where we still heard about this because when it came

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Speaker 2: time to listen, the race can't play at the Drop

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Speaker 2: this year, we know that it's going to take a

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Speaker 2: whole year to fix the building.

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Speaker 1: So where do you play?

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Speaker 2: And Panella's County is like, why don't you just play

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Speaker 2: in this county? Play at the Phillies spring training site

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Speaker 2: in clear Water. And what major League Baseball is saying

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Speaker 2: is that there's really no comparison in terms of the

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Speaker 2: infrastructure as a major league facility. And let's face it,

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Speaker 2: a make do major league facility that George steinberg a

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Speaker 2: Field in Tampa has just better physical facilities when it

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Speaker 2: comes to you know, the locker rooms, the training facility,

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Speaker 2: parking areas. It was done, not done to slight anybody

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Speaker 2: in Panelas County. It was just what is the best

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Speaker 2: physical place for us to play Major League baseball in

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Speaker 2: twenty twenty five with the Rays. So it's an interesting dynamic.

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Speaker 2: I don't know if that can be no pun intended

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Speaker 2: bridged to get an issue. It hasn't for years. So

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Speaker 2: now Joe, we're looking at a year next year, the

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Speaker 2: twenty twenty five baseball season, Baseball, Major League Baseball will

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Speaker 2: be played in two minor league parks, you know, the

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Speaker 2: A's and West Sacramento and the Rays in Tampa Saint Pete.

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Speaker 1: It's not ideal, believe me. Both places.

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Speaker 2: You're going to be talking about extreme weather through the

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Speaker 2: summer months, extreme heat and Tampa as you know, Joe,

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Speaker 2: you get the almost daily rainstorms in the afternoon.

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Speaker 1: But this is what we have.

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Speaker 2: And you know, if you're the manager of either one

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Speaker 2: of those teams, Markcotze, Kevin Cash, good luck, because you're

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Speaker 2: going to have to make that a point of not

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Speaker 2: a point of interest or contention. You have to kind

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Speaker 2: of diffuse it. How about that as a manager, Joe,

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Speaker 2: with those teams and those facilities.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's it's it is. There's a lot to be

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Speaker 3: thought of there. Even in Sacramento. It's going to be

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Speaker 3: way harder than it would be in Oakland during the

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Speaker 3: course of the summer. But let's stay here in Tampa Bay.

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Speaker 3: Did the schedule before the game is gonna have to

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Speaker 3: be altered dramatically. The kind of work you had gotten

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Speaker 3: done at the trap so easily is not going to

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Speaker 3: be as easily fulfilled at Steinbrenner, like you said, just

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Speaker 3: because of the daily rainstorms and even the course of

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Speaker 3: the game when you have to stall a game, stop

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Speaker 3: a game, put the tarp on, pull the tarp and

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Speaker 3: then the oppressive heat. My goodness, I mean now you

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Speaker 3: can say and I thought, obviously the Marlins win a

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Speaker 3: World Series in the heat. They actually did pretty well

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Speaker 3: because you never wanted to go when you ever you

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Speaker 3: went down there to play outside in Miami at Joe

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Speaker 3: Robbie at that time I think was called whatever. Not easy,

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Speaker 3: It's difficult, but they succeed it, and I give them

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Speaker 3: credit for that. There's a lot to overcome on a

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Speaker 3: daily basis. You have to have some really tough minded players.

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Speaker 3: As I'm telling you, man, it beats you down, It

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Speaker 3: can beat you down. Of course, there's getaway dames. You're

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Speaker 3: not going to play it during the daytime. You just can't.

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Speaker 3: Games have to be played at night, and you have

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Speaker 3: to again plan for it differently and be willing to

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Speaker 3: accept that better indoor facilities and make sure the cages

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Speaker 3: are in good order, and the extra work you have

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Speaker 3: you have to really pinpoint exactly when and make it

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Speaker 3: into smaller pockets for me extra hitting. For instance, at

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Speaker 3: an outdoor facility like that, you don't come out at

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Speaker 3: two o'clock if you're on the field for your regular BP,

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Speaker 3: just say it four forty five for five o'clock BP.

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Speaker 3: As an example, I would back up my extra work

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Speaker 3: right into that four forty five slot, so that all

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Speaker 3: this happens in a more unified manner, because when you

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Speaker 3: spread this stuff out, it gets very difficult, and again

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Speaker 3: for so many different reasons, a lot more to think about.

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Speaker 3: Can none, of course, it can be. Like I said,

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Speaker 3: the Orleans had been successful with it, not in an

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Speaker 3: optimal way though you're always talking about, you know, pitchers

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Speaker 3: of five innings. Tell you one thing, man, this wears you,

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Speaker 3: doubt as much as anything, that heat and the humidity.

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Speaker 1: That's a great point.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: The Marlins were the first team I can remember when

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Speaker 2: they were on the field for BP. They went out

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Speaker 2: there in T shirts and shorts. It was kind of

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Speaker 2: a weird look, but it certainly made sense. Joe I

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Speaker 2: mentioned Paul Skens, named the Rookie of the Year. He's

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Speaker 2: a National League sy Young Award finalist, not going to win,

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Speaker 2: but as a rookie, that's I think he's only the

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Speaker 2: fifth or sixth rookie to finish in the top three.

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Speaker 1: For Cy Young.

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Speaker 2: Of course, Fernando Elinzuela, the late Fernando, late great Fernando

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Speaker 2: did win it back in eighty one. I want to

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Speaker 2: get your take on Paul Skeen's watching him pitch. I mean,

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Speaker 2: his stuff is remarkable. I thought the Pirates did a

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Speaker 2: great job with him. He did not make a start

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Speaker 2: this year on four days rest.

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Speaker 1: Now you have to.

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Speaker 2: Understand normal rest now is not four days, it's five days.

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Speaker 2: The majority of interleague starts now are made that with

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Speaker 2: more rest than than traditionally. So the Pirates made sure

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Speaker 2: they always gave him, never pitching him on four days rest,

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Speaker 2: giving him that fifth day.

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Speaker 1: It worked out great.

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Speaker 2: At the end of the year, Joe, his era in

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Speaker 2: September was zero point seventy five and he has his

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Speaker 2: highest strikeout rate at the end of the longest season

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Speaker 2: of his young career. Give me your take on Paul Schimes,

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Speaker 2: what you see on him and as good as he

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Speaker 2: was with one nine to six cra as a rookie,

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Speaker 2: what his ceiling might be.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, It's like everything else we talk about in the

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Speaker 3: industry of sports health is the number one factory here

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Speaker 3: watching his armwork behind him from the beginning, I just

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Speaker 3: I was concerned. It just appeared like there was a

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Speaker 3: lot going on, I thought, and I might again, I'm

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Speaker 3: just watching on TV. Occasionally I thought he kind of

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Speaker 3: abbreviated it a little bit a season in progress. I

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Speaker 3: just thought his stroke armstroke, when I mean what happens

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Speaker 3: behind him and not in front of him when he

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Speaker 3: starts throwing a baseball. There's a lot to unfold back there,

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Speaker 3: and there's a lot to keep on time back there,

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Speaker 3: and he listened. He does it because his command is ridiculous.

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Speaker 3: So Number one, I would just continue to keep my

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Speaker 3: focus there regarding his delivery because of the split finger

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Speaker 3: whatever he calls that thing. When young players, young pitchers

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Speaker 3: through that pitch. I was always concerned in the minor

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Speaker 3: leagues when my guys coming up back in the day,

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Speaker 3: because one of the things was that they could get

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Speaker 3: minor league hitters out with that. They never had to

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Speaker 3: develop their fastball and their other pitches. But the other

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Speaker 3: part was I thought to put a lot of strain

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Speaker 3: on their arms. Their forums and their ailbows. And I

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Speaker 3: know people disagree with that, but I believe that to

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Speaker 3: be true. So that's number one. But regarding also the

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Speaker 3: length between appearances, I kind of liked that, and I

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Speaker 3: was something I advocated for even with the when I

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Speaker 3: think by the time I got to the Angels, for sure,

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Speaker 3: it might be easier to find, you know, six pitches

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Speaker 3: you like as opposed to five. Because the way the

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Speaker 3: game is being processed today, I thought by giving starters

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Speaker 3: an extra rest front, offices might be more lenient regarding

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Speaker 3: permitting them to throw more pitches or go more innings.

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Speaker 3: And with that, I would really create an emphasis if

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Speaker 3: you have that and if that's what you've sought and

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Speaker 3: that's what you're going to work as a six six

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Speaker 3: man basically, or you know, the extra day rest in

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Speaker 3: between really focus on how do you get the hitters

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Speaker 3: out the third time through the batting order? And we

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Speaker 3: focus on all these other things, and we have all

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Speaker 3: these evaluations or plans or whatever you want to call them.

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Speaker 3: If the if the big trick is the third time

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Speaker 3: through the batting order, and we really spent time trying

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Speaker 3: to focus on, Okay, what is the problem here? Is

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Speaker 3: it just the fact that they've hitters seeing them the

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Speaker 3: third time through? Is it the fact that pitchers lose

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Speaker 3: stuff because all they're doing and they're maxing out from

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Speaker 3: the very first pitch? Do you need to approach the

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Speaker 3: first time, first time and second time through the batting

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Speaker 3: order different differently regarding what do you actually show the

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Speaker 3: hitter of your full repertoire. How do we do this?

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Speaker 3: So number one schemes, beautiful man's is stuff is electric

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Speaker 3: and the command really is what sets him apart the split.

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Speaker 3: I'm just a little concerned with that and how his armworks,

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Speaker 3: but I do advocate for the extra man in the rotation.

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Speaker 3: And if we do that and we are then be

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Speaker 3: more lenient letting these guys go more deeply into games

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Speaker 3: and focus on how to teach guys to get that

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Speaker 3: third time through, whereas it's not such a problem for

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Speaker 3: analytical people and really puts a lot of stress on

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Speaker 3: the manager.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I hear you. On the pitch he calls it

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Speaker 1: a splinker.

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Speaker 2: It's really across a hybrid between a sinker and a splitter.

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Speaker 2: What he does is he basically throws a sinker with

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Speaker 2: a slightly or modified split grip.

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Speaker 1: It's not a true splitter. It's not that wide.

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Speaker 2: And his idea is he just throws it without manipulating

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Speaker 2: the ball it comes off. He actually changed it where

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Speaker 2: it comes off more of the index finger now than

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Speaker 2: the middle finger. But that's a power sinker, is really

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Speaker 2: what it is. It's coming in there at ninety two

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Speaker 2: ninety three. It's got thirty inches of drop, so that's

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Speaker 2: seven inches more than a typical sinker. It's an unhittable pitch.

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Speaker 2: He just owns the command of it. As you mentioned, Joe,

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Speaker 2: he's a strike thrower. He's not a pure power pitcher.

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Speaker 2: He's he's got the catcher set up on corners and

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Speaker 2: he can hit those corners. That's the thing that impresses

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Speaker 2: me most about Paul Skeins is, Yeah, he can throw

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Speaker 2: the ball one hundred miles an hour, but at the

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Speaker 2: same time, he can command the baseball. He knows what

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Speaker 2: he's doing out there at twenty one, twenty two years

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Speaker 2: of age.

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Speaker 1: I thought it was really impressive to see that.

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Speaker 2: But I'm not as worried about the splitter as you, Joe,

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Speaker 2: because it's to me, it's not a true splitter.

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Speaker 3: Yeah again, I haven't This is observations from watching on television.

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Speaker 3: I've never been seeing him in person, and I'm just

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Speaker 3: going through my years having done this in the minor leagues,

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Speaker 3: and you're right. I mean, those guys that I was

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Speaker 3: concerned about really did split their fingers. He'd see guys

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Speaker 3: walking around with a softball a lot of time. Most

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Speaker 3: of the time there was starters too. There were starters,

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Speaker 3: but they would walk around with the softball so that

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Speaker 3: they can split their fingers even wider. And then when

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Speaker 3: they got into regular baseball was easier to do that.

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Speaker 3: And I know it was a big thing. Roger Craig

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Speaker 3: brought it on man and it was it was dynamic.

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Speaker 3: And then of course you could talk about the Japanese

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Speaker 3: with their shooto, which is another form of this split,

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Speaker 3: and you can talk about you Darvish and I even

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Speaker 3: had Shugartoshi Hasagawa with the angels really good with that pitch,

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Speaker 3: putting hitters away. So it's very popular in the Asian

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Speaker 3: culture pitching market. So it just could be, you know,

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Speaker 3: the person himself is the proclivity to be injured whatever.

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Speaker 3: I don't know, but I saw it enough that I'm

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Speaker 3: always concerned about it. But with this guy here, Listen,

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Speaker 3: it's the real deal. I mean, what he did this

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Speaker 3: year phenomenal. The guy stays healthy, he's gonna be like

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Speaker 3: this for many years to come. And that's the only

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Speaker 3: thing you worry about. But you don't worry about it

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Speaker 3: to the point where you're protecting, where you just back

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Speaker 3: off on everything. If you get hurt, he gets hurt.

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Speaker 3: You try to do everything you possibly can in advance.

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Speaker 3: But the stuff is that good. The command was outstanding.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, listen, needs six foot probably about two thirty. You know,

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Speaker 2: not everybody should be treated the same way. To me,

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Speaker 2: he looks like he's built the last. I agree with

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Speaker 2: you on his armstroke behind him. When I first saw it,

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Speaker 2: I was like, whoa, you know, what's that? Not in

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Speaker 2: love with it. What he does is when he takes

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Speaker 2: the ball up, he brings his right elbow higher than

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Speaker 2: his right shoulder. So I call that picking the ball

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Speaker 2: up with your elbow. Most people will rotate before they

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Speaker 2: get to that point. Now, that in and of itself

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Speaker 2: is not a true red flag. The problem comes in

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Speaker 2: when you lift the ball and your elbow comes up

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Speaker 2: higher than your shoulder. It creates a timing problem. Basically,

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Speaker 2: you want that ball to be raised in the loaded

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Speaker 2: position as that front foot hits the down slope of

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Speaker 2: the mound. If you're lifting your elbow up, you're creating

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Speaker 2: a little more another beat there where it takes time

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Speaker 2: then to rotate up and you're what they call late,

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Speaker 2: and that creates all kinds of problems.

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Speaker 1: That puts a lot of strain in the shoulder and

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Speaker 1: eventually it gets into the elbow.

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Speaker 2: We have some issues there, but if you really look

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Speaker 2: at Paul's skeins, yes, he brings the elbow higher than

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Speaker 2: the shoulder, but to me it's borderline. But he gets

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Speaker 2: the ball to the loaded position as that front foot lands,

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Speaker 2: so to me, he looks like he's on time.

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Speaker 1: I remember when the Chicago White Sox drafted Chris Sale.

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Speaker 2: He's got the same issue with that elbow comes up

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Speaker 2: and they had a lot of debate in their draft

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Speaker 2: room about whether we want to take Chris Sale because

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Speaker 2: we don't know whether this is sustainable or he's an

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Speaker 2: injury waiting to happen. And they came down the side

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Speaker 2: of the fence that you know, it is borderline, but

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Speaker 2: it's good.

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Speaker 1: And Chris Sale has had a heck of a career yeah,

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Speaker 1: you know.

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Speaker 2: I know he's hurt, you know, but he was in

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Speaker 2: the mid thirties by then and has come back unbelievably well.

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Speaker 2: But to me, Joe, I think that the mitigating factor

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Speaker 2: here is I think he's on time, even though it

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Speaker 2: looks a little funky and all. But by the way,

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Speaker 2: he also has a very low release point for a

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Speaker 2: guy who's six foot six, he's got a five and

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Speaker 2: a half foot release point.

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Speaker 1: He's got a lot of max Scherzer actually in his delivery.

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Speaker 2: And that plays, let me tell you, especially when you're

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Speaker 2: throwing one hundred miles an hour to have that vertical

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Speaker 2: attack angle. So again, like you, Joe, I saw that

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Speaker 2: little hitch if you want to call it that and delivery,

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Speaker 2: and I'd like, huh, I'm not sure I like that.

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Speaker 1: But when you really break it down, I think he's okay.

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Speaker 3: And like you're saying, that's a big part of his

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Speaker 3: success too, he's at that point. I don't know how

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Speaker 3: long he's been throwing exactly like that, but I bet

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Speaker 3: it's been for a while and you're not going to

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Speaker 3: change that, and you don't want to change it, and

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Speaker 3: like sureser, like the ball comes out of their shirt

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Speaker 3: almost it almost comes out of their right part of

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Speaker 3: their shirt, the right chest area. And there's deception involved,

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Speaker 3: which is outstanding. All these things are factors in him

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Speaker 3: being as good as he is. I have seen the

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Speaker 3: tunneling thing where the ball comes out of the same

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Speaker 3: spot and all of a sudden the pitches do so

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Speaker 3: they disperse on such a wide margin that from a

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Speaker 3: hitter's perspective, what am I swinging at here? So there's

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Speaker 3: so much to like about him. I hear him talk.

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Speaker 3: He's a great kid. I wish him nothing but the best.

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Speaker 3: I'm just answering questions. These are the concerns that would

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Speaker 3: have and you would watch him with. But I don't know.

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Speaker 3: You'd have to bet on this kid in the future.

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Speaker 3: He's so successful collegiately comes here and nails it in

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Speaker 3: this first year. Just be curious to watch this proceed.

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Speaker 3: I don't think you're gonna all of a sudden see

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Speaker 3: young pitchers trying to throw like him. That'd be hard

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Speaker 3: arm delivery to replicate. I've always felt a lot of

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Speaker 3: times really great players do things in an indigenous manner

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Speaker 3: to them, and I've used the example even like say,

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Speaker 3: go back to Stan Musual with his batting stance or

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Speaker 3: Julio Franco with his batting stance. There's different things that

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Speaker 3: really good players. Bob Boom the way he sat on

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Speaker 3: the ground with his butt on the ground. Guys that

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Speaker 3: are really good at what they do sometimes do things

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Speaker 3: a little bit differently than everybody else, and it's a

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Speaker 3: part of their success.

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Speaker 1: And one more thought on Paul Skans.

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Speaker 2: I'm really curious to get your take on this, Joe,

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Speaker 2: and we will do this right after this quick break.

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Speaker 1: Is there such a thing as throwing too hard?

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Speaker 2: Because you have seen velocity increase in league Baseball and

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Speaker 2: Paul Skeens.

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Speaker 1: Is at the top of the chart.

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Speaker 2: Is there a correlation between velocity and injury risk?

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Speaker 1: Will dive into that right after this. By the way,

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Speaker 1: how about the start.

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Speaker 2: Of Paul Skenes' career, even going back Joe in the

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Speaker 2: last year and a half. You know, he wins the

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Speaker 2: College World Series at LSU. He's the number one pick

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Speaker 2: in the draft. He signed the highest signing bonus in

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Speaker 2: Major league history, you know, a one to one pick

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Speaker 2: by the Pittsburgh Pirates. He starts the All Star Game

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Speaker 2: after just eleven major league starts and now he's Rookie

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Speaker 2: of the Year and a cy Young Finalists, just amazing.

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Speaker 2: Kind of reminds me of Chris Bryant and the start

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Speaker 2: that he get off to, right, you know, number two

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Speaker 2: overall pick, and then Rookie of the Year, then World

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Speaker 2: Series Champion, MVP. I mean, it doesn't get much better

433
00:21:01,678 --> 00:21:02,238
Speaker 2: than what we've seen.

434
00:21:02,318 --> 00:21:08,598
Speaker 3: Paul skeens, No, it's phenomenal. And you always skeptical, not

435
00:21:08,638 --> 00:21:10,758
Speaker 3: having scouted him, not knowing the guy. So when all

436
00:21:10,758 --> 00:21:14,478
Speaker 3: of a sudden all this stuff starts happening, you're watching curiously,

437
00:21:14,558 --> 00:21:17,518
Speaker 3: like really, and then you watch him throw even one

438
00:21:17,598 --> 00:21:20,598
Speaker 3: game or a couple innings. I picked it up on

439
00:21:20,638 --> 00:21:22,958
Speaker 3: the tube one time. I said, Wow, that is really legit.

440
00:21:22,958 --> 00:21:25,118
Speaker 3: And like I said before, the one thing that would

441
00:21:25,158 --> 00:21:27,198
Speaker 3: be concerning I thought, But then I'm thinking, my god,

442
00:21:27,238 --> 00:21:29,238
Speaker 3: he's been probably throwing like this for a long period

443
00:21:29,238 --> 00:21:32,998
Speaker 3: of time. He might have a preciously good workout routine,

444
00:21:33,438 --> 00:21:35,238
Speaker 3: all these things that I don't know, we don't know

445
00:21:35,798 --> 00:21:38,078
Speaker 3: that he does behind the scenes that permit him to

446
00:21:38,118 --> 00:21:41,078
Speaker 3: be that great. And then again, with all of that

447
00:21:41,118 --> 00:21:44,038
Speaker 3: being said and done, the command of his fastball to

448
00:21:44,078 --> 00:21:46,758
Speaker 3: me sets all this stuff up. If he did not

449
00:21:46,838 --> 00:21:50,278
Speaker 3: command his fastball as well as he did. Hitters might

450
00:21:50,318 --> 00:21:52,198
Speaker 3: be able to be more patient, they might be able

451
00:21:52,198 --> 00:21:55,158
Speaker 3: to recognize things sooner, but having to worry about that,

452
00:21:55,238 --> 00:21:58,278
Speaker 3: and as long as that command stays in place, he's

453
00:21:58,318 --> 00:21:59,718
Speaker 3: going to continue to be this difficult.

454
00:21:59,958 --> 00:22:03,038
Speaker 2: I mentioned velocity, Joe, and one thing I like is

455
00:22:03,118 --> 00:22:07,718
Speaker 2: to see pitchers kind of grow into their velocity naturally.

456
00:22:08,158 --> 00:22:11,078
Speaker 2: I'm always scared when I hear about seventeen eighteen year

457
00:22:11,078 --> 00:22:14,278
Speaker 2: old kids throwing upper nineties. You know, the body just

458
00:22:14,518 --> 00:22:17,918
Speaker 2: hasn't really been fully formed to handle that kind of stress.

459
00:22:18,558 --> 00:22:20,838
Speaker 2: And Paul Skeens is one of these guys, and Blake

460
00:22:20,878 --> 00:22:23,878
Speaker 2: Snell is another one who came into velocity later.

461
00:22:24,318 --> 00:22:26,558
Speaker 1: This guy went to Air Force as a two way player.

462
00:22:26,798 --> 00:22:29,238
Speaker 2: He was a catcher, you know, he didn't become a

463
00:22:29,238 --> 00:22:31,758
Speaker 2: full time pitcher really until he went to LSU, where,

464
00:22:31,798 --> 00:22:34,238
Speaker 2: by the way, he had Wes Johnson, former Major League

465
00:22:34,238 --> 00:22:36,398
Speaker 2: pitching coach, as his pitching coach at LSU.

466
00:22:37,398 --> 00:22:39,878
Speaker 1: So I like the fact that a he wasn't.

467
00:22:39,638 --> 00:22:42,358
Speaker 2: Pitched out the way kids with great arms tend to

468
00:22:42,398 --> 00:22:45,078
Speaker 2: be by the time they even before they get drafted,

469
00:22:45,238 --> 00:22:47,598
Speaker 2: and his velocity came later. You know he grew he

470
00:22:47,638 --> 00:22:50,598
Speaker 2: was a great hitter, and I think that the velocity

471
00:22:50,638 --> 00:22:52,438
Speaker 2: that he has now we do have to talk about

472
00:22:52,438 --> 00:22:54,118
Speaker 2: that because it's it's upper tier.

473
00:22:54,198 --> 00:22:56,118
Speaker 1: I went back and looked at the last four years,

474
00:22:57,038 --> 00:22:58,078
Speaker 1: and his.

475
00:22:58,078 --> 00:23:01,078
Speaker 2: Velocity this year average in ninety eight point eight, which

476
00:23:01,118 --> 00:23:04,838
Speaker 2: is incredible. So I looked at the last four years.

477
00:23:05,278 --> 00:23:08,478
Speaker 2: There's been six pitchers who average ninety seven point three

478
00:23:08,478 --> 00:23:13,958
Speaker 2: and above. Starting pitchers, Hunter Green, Spencer Streyder, Sandy Alcantra,

479
00:23:14,638 --> 00:23:19,678
Speaker 2: Garrett Cole, Grayson Rodriguez, Jared Jones, and now you have

480
00:23:20,238 --> 00:23:24,038
Speaker 2: Paul Skens. Obviously, Joe, there's a lot of injuries there,

481
00:23:24,038 --> 00:23:27,158
Speaker 2: and we're talking about those pictures. And you go back

482
00:23:27,198 --> 00:23:31,358
Speaker 2: over the last let's say, the last ten years, similar seasons,

483
00:23:31,438 --> 00:23:33,558
Speaker 2: rookie seasons, throwing one hundred and thirty to one hundred

484
00:23:33,558 --> 00:23:36,238
Speaker 2: and forty innings with velocity and a high strikeout rate.

485
00:23:36,838 --> 00:23:41,318
Speaker 2: You've got Walker Bueller, Spencer Stryder, Jacob de Gram and

486
00:23:41,398 --> 00:23:45,678
Speaker 2: Paul Skens. I mean, listen, there is a correlation. We

487
00:23:45,798 --> 00:23:50,078
Speaker 2: can't ignore it, Joe, between velocity and injuries. The harder

488
00:23:50,118 --> 00:23:53,038
Speaker 2: you throw, the more stress you have. The more stress

489
00:23:53,078 --> 00:23:55,158
Speaker 2: you have, the more likely you are to be hurt

490
00:23:55,318 --> 00:23:58,838
Speaker 2: at just an overall fact. But I do like the

491
00:23:58,878 --> 00:24:02,998
Speaker 2: fact that a unlike Bueller and de Gram, he came

492
00:24:03,038 --> 00:24:05,638
Speaker 2: into the major leagues or at least professional baseball healthy.

493
00:24:05,838 --> 00:24:08,118
Speaker 2: Those two guys had Tommy John surgery the year they

494
00:24:08,118 --> 00:24:11,598
Speaker 2: were drafted. And the fact that again he wasn't a

495
00:24:11,598 --> 00:24:14,518
Speaker 2: pitcher only his whole life, you know, that really appeals

496
00:24:14,558 --> 00:24:14,758
Speaker 2: to me.

497
00:24:15,158 --> 00:24:18,798
Speaker 3: Yeah, I didn't even know honestly about the catching perspective

498
00:24:19,158 --> 00:24:22,558
Speaker 3: or component when you said that. I mean, and I'm

499
00:24:22,558 --> 00:24:25,438
Speaker 3: thinking about Troy Percival when we first got Percy on

500
00:24:25,478 --> 00:24:28,038
Speaker 3: the mound, and his arm did a lot of that

501
00:24:28,118 --> 00:24:31,358
Speaker 3: stuff behind him also, But Percy was relief pitcher obviously,

502
00:24:31,398 --> 00:24:34,478
Speaker 3: and he threw very, very hard and had tremendous deception

503
00:24:34,558 --> 00:24:38,638
Speaker 3: with the high lay kick. So it happens. But you again,

504
00:24:39,078 --> 00:24:45,998
Speaker 3: starting pitcher throwing that hard that consistently, it just seems likely.

505
00:24:46,198 --> 00:24:50,078
Speaker 3: And the examples you gave are perfect examples. It just

506
00:24:50,158 --> 00:24:52,238
Speaker 3: has to happen at some point. How does the arm

507
00:24:52,558 --> 00:24:56,478
Speaker 3: survive all that unless the guy's just a freak it

508
00:24:56,838 --> 00:25:00,598
Speaker 3: it's hard to understand de Grom and all those people. Wow.

509
00:25:01,438 --> 00:25:06,998
Speaker 3: So moving forward, probably his workout program, and I'm sure

510
00:25:06,998 --> 00:25:10,918
Speaker 3: the pirates are involvement back to LSU. Once he established

511
00:25:10,918 --> 00:25:15,038
Speaker 3: this this consistent velocity, and they had to start looking

512
00:25:15,038 --> 00:25:16,918
Speaker 3: into this and try to really figure out how do

513
00:25:16,958 --> 00:25:18,798
Speaker 3: we maintain this and keep this guy healthy and well,

514
00:25:18,838 --> 00:25:21,998
Speaker 3: not that anybody else doesn't, but like you said, this

515
00:25:22,038 --> 00:25:24,518
Speaker 3: guy was not hurt coming into it like the other

516
00:25:24,558 --> 00:25:27,798
Speaker 3: guys had gotten there out their first Timmy John prior

517
00:25:27,838 --> 00:25:31,758
Speaker 3: to that's it. That's the key, that's the secret list.

518
00:25:32,278 --> 00:25:33,518
Speaker 3: I don't know the answer to that at all. I

519
00:25:33,518 --> 00:25:36,038
Speaker 3: don't even know if anybody does. But if I'm the

520
00:25:36,038 --> 00:25:39,358
Speaker 3: pirates are really digging deeply on that, I don't think

521
00:25:39,398 --> 00:25:42,678
Speaker 3: the answer is to throw less or monitored number of

522
00:25:42,718 --> 00:25:44,758
Speaker 3: pitches and all that other stuff that doesn't seem to

523
00:25:44,758 --> 00:25:50,278
Speaker 3: work anyway physically, workout wise, whatever works for this particular fella,

524
00:25:51,758 --> 00:25:53,518
Speaker 3: I would stay focused in there, but I would not

525
00:25:53,638 --> 00:25:54,678
Speaker 3: baby him on the mound.

526
00:25:54,958 --> 00:25:57,158
Speaker 2: I'm glad you brought that up, because we do tend

527
00:25:57,158 --> 00:26:00,198
Speaker 2: to think that's the answer, and we really don't know.

528
00:26:00,278 --> 00:26:02,678
Speaker 2: In fact, the other day I had a conversation with

529
00:26:02,718 --> 00:26:06,238
Speaker 2: a major league player person guy, and is exactly exactly

530
00:26:06,278 --> 00:26:09,118
Speaker 2: what he said was, we just don't know when it

531
00:26:09,158 --> 00:26:12,198
Speaker 2: comes to pictures being hurt. And I think that that

532
00:26:12,238 --> 00:26:15,358
Speaker 2: took a lot of intelligence to admit that no matter

533
00:26:15,398 --> 00:26:18,318
Speaker 2: what mitigations teams come up with, they really don't know

534
00:26:18,398 --> 00:26:21,118
Speaker 2: what causes injury. And there are outliers just in terms

535
00:26:21,158 --> 00:26:24,518
Speaker 2: of genetics and DNA, you know. I think justin Verlander,

536
00:26:24,598 --> 00:26:27,798
Speaker 2: Nolan Ryan have been those kind of pictures you can

537
00:26:27,838 --> 00:26:31,478
Speaker 2: throw hard and have a long career. It's been done,

538
00:26:31,758 --> 00:26:34,198
Speaker 2: so that is to me, Joe, I think it's a

539
00:26:34,238 --> 00:26:36,438
Speaker 2: great point what you made here that you know, just

540
00:26:36,518 --> 00:26:39,358
Speaker 2: cutting back on the number of pitches alone or the

541
00:26:39,438 --> 00:26:43,358
Speaker 2: number of innings, we're saying that's not working. I mean,

542
00:26:43,478 --> 00:26:45,518
Speaker 2: it doesn't mean you go to the opposite extreme and

543
00:26:45,558 --> 00:26:47,278
Speaker 2: just run guys into the ground the way they did

544
00:26:47,278 --> 00:26:50,918
Speaker 2: in the sixties and the seventies. But if anybody tells

545
00:26:50,918 --> 00:26:54,758
Speaker 2: you they know what the answer is, just don't believe them.

546
00:26:55,598 --> 00:26:57,838
Speaker 3: I'm with you, I don't believe them. And that's just

547
00:26:57,878 --> 00:26:59,198
Speaker 3: like the third time three of the batting. What I

548
00:26:59,278 --> 00:27:02,038
Speaker 3: know statistically is it shakes out. But I don't know

549
00:27:02,078 --> 00:27:04,798
Speaker 3: how much time is spent on teach pitchers how to

550
00:27:04,878 --> 00:27:07,718
Speaker 3: get through the third time through. And that begins into

551
00:27:07,758 --> 00:27:11,518
Speaker 3: minor leagues Collegiately speaking, most of these guys do get

552
00:27:11,518 --> 00:27:14,038
Speaker 3: that opportunity. If you're good in the college, the coach

553
00:27:14,118 --> 00:27:15,878
Speaker 3: is not taking you out of the game. You're going

554
00:27:15,958 --> 00:27:17,958
Speaker 3: to pitch a big number, You're going to pitch more

555
00:27:17,998 --> 00:27:20,158
Speaker 3: deep into the game. So there there's got to be

556
00:27:20,238 --> 00:27:24,158
Speaker 3: some success. Although the hitters aren't of the same caliber,

557
00:27:24,238 --> 00:27:27,678
Speaker 3: of course, but that would be my main objective. I

558
00:27:27,718 --> 00:27:33,398
Speaker 3: think two things teach teach pitchers, and I've talked about

559
00:27:33,398 --> 00:27:36,398
Speaker 3: with James Shields. I love Shields, these shields, but a competitor.

560
00:27:36,878 --> 00:27:38,278
Speaker 3: But when he had to work too hard for his

561
00:27:38,358 --> 00:27:40,998
Speaker 3: house early, like exposes change it really like in the

562
00:27:41,038 --> 00:27:43,358
Speaker 3: first inning too often. I was always concerned if he

563
00:27:43,398 --> 00:27:44,918
Speaker 3: came out he's stow in ninety three to ninety four,

564
00:27:44,998 --> 00:27:47,438
Speaker 3: ninety five, I would be concerned because I would think

565
00:27:47,438 --> 00:27:49,678
Speaker 3: that that's going to impact the second, third, fourth, fifth

566
00:27:49,678 --> 00:27:52,558
Speaker 3: inning at some point because either he's too jacked up,

567
00:27:53,678 --> 00:27:57,118
Speaker 3: he's over amped right now, velocity's too high, and then

568
00:27:57,158 --> 00:27:59,198
Speaker 3: I got to work really hard to get my ouse early,

569
00:27:59,238 --> 00:28:01,558
Speaker 3: and I'm showing everybody everything I got in the first

570
00:28:01,558 --> 00:28:06,038
Speaker 3: and second inning. I loved on the utilization of the

571
00:28:06,038 --> 00:28:08,918
Speaker 3: fastball early. I do. I love the utilization of the

572
00:28:08,958 --> 00:28:11,678
Speaker 3: fastball early to spots, not just necessarily just throw it

573
00:28:11,718 --> 00:28:14,558
Speaker 3: right down the middle. Teach your guys to spot it

574
00:28:14,678 --> 00:28:17,878
Speaker 3: up and really learn how to get quick outs. That's

575
00:28:17,918 --> 00:28:21,758
Speaker 3: where the quickouts occur. Early count fastball is located, and

576
00:28:21,878 --> 00:28:23,918
Speaker 3: in that situation you might get the ball in play

577
00:28:24,438 --> 00:28:26,038
Speaker 3: or you want to get the bomb play and everybody's

578
00:28:26,038 --> 00:28:28,758
Speaker 3: trying to mispats. I understand that, but you can't strike

579
00:28:28,798 --> 00:28:31,398
Speaker 3: somebody else till you get to two strikes to get

580
00:28:31,398 --> 00:28:33,158
Speaker 3: to your third one. So I like the idea of

581
00:28:33,238 --> 00:28:36,478
Speaker 3: fastball command, like the idea of not working so hard

582
00:28:36,518 --> 00:28:39,758
Speaker 3: for your outs early and really using that as a concept.

583
00:28:40,358 --> 00:28:43,078
Speaker 3: And then with that in the minor leagues, I would

584
00:28:43,198 --> 00:28:46,998
Speaker 3: encourage my young starters two pitch the third time through

585
00:28:47,398 --> 00:28:49,238
Speaker 3: to learn how to do this, to learn how to

586
00:28:49,238 --> 00:28:51,998
Speaker 3: be more creative, to learn how to make maybe save

587
00:28:52,118 --> 00:28:54,998
Speaker 3: something where that one, two, three, and four hitter the

588
00:28:55,078 --> 00:28:57,918
Speaker 3: third time through, I see them and make it part

589
00:28:57,958 --> 00:29:00,678
Speaker 3: of the developmental plan. I don't know how much that's discussed.

590
00:29:00,678 --> 00:29:02,758
Speaker 3: I don't think it's discussed at all, but that would

591
00:29:02,758 --> 00:29:05,118
Speaker 3: be a big part I think. And then the result

592
00:29:05,158 --> 00:29:08,118
Speaker 3: would be better bullpens that have less work to do, Joe.

593
00:29:08,198 --> 00:29:11,438
Speaker 2: Earlier I mentioned the San Francisco Giants and Buster Posey

594
00:29:11,838 --> 00:29:15,638
Speaker 2: is now their point guy running this organization. Have you

595
00:29:15,678 --> 00:29:17,678
Speaker 2: had a chance to kind of dive into what Buster

596
00:29:17,798 --> 00:29:20,558
Speaker 2: has been trying to do so far with the Giants?

597
00:29:20,798 --> 00:29:21,478
Speaker 3: Honestly, I have not.

598
00:29:21,558 --> 00:29:25,078
Speaker 2: Honest it's pretty interesting, And actually I started thinking about

599
00:29:25,118 --> 00:29:28,958
Speaker 2: this in terms of players now basically having the keys

600
00:29:28,998 --> 00:29:31,318
Speaker 2: to the car when it comes to running major league teams,

601
00:29:31,518 --> 00:29:33,958
Speaker 2: and it's been a while since they've been trusted to

602
00:29:34,038 --> 00:29:37,078
Speaker 2: do that. Now you've got, you know, starting with Chris

603
00:29:37,118 --> 00:29:39,678
Speaker 2: Young in Texas. Obviously they won the World Series a

604
00:29:39,718 --> 00:29:42,958
Speaker 2: year ago. Chris gets has taken over in Chicago with

605
00:29:42,998 --> 00:29:45,158
Speaker 2: the White Sox. He's got a huge job ahead of him.

606
00:29:45,438 --> 00:29:48,278
Speaker 2: And now Buster Posey. So we get former players now

607
00:29:48,318 --> 00:29:51,598
Speaker 2: making decisions, and in Buster's case, he's bringing back some

608
00:29:51,678 --> 00:29:55,158
Speaker 2: of the people that he knows from his playing days

609
00:29:55,278 --> 00:29:59,118
Speaker 2: in decision making positions. Danny Evans, his agent, Jeff Berry,

610
00:29:59,278 --> 00:30:03,678
Speaker 2: Randy Winn. But it's interesting because whenever anybody gets hired,

611
00:30:03,998 --> 00:30:06,918
Speaker 2: questions are always about analytics, right and how much you're

612
00:30:06,958 --> 00:30:09,998
Speaker 2: going to use it. And I almost have to start

613
00:30:09,998 --> 00:30:13,918
Speaker 2: with this preface Joe that everybody is using analytics. This

614
00:30:13,958 --> 00:30:17,558
Speaker 2: is not an either or scenario. Okay, everybody wants them.

615
00:30:17,798 --> 00:30:20,478
Speaker 2: It's part of the game. It has been for years.

616
00:30:21,078 --> 00:30:24,318
Speaker 2: It's a matter of how much you emphasize them. Do

617
00:30:24,398 --> 00:30:28,358
Speaker 2: they drive your decisions or do they influence your decisions?

618
00:30:28,718 --> 00:30:31,838
Speaker 2: And Buster Posey has some really interesting things to say that.

619
00:30:31,878 --> 00:30:34,758
Speaker 2: Remember he's got a veteran manager there in Bob Melboyne,

620
00:30:35,398 --> 00:30:39,198
Speaker 2: and he said, look, we're going to use analytics. And

621
00:30:39,238 --> 00:30:42,238
Speaker 2: I've already talked to Bo mell about this, and hey,

622
00:30:42,438 --> 00:30:43,998
Speaker 2: how do we want the flow of this to be.

623
00:30:44,678 --> 00:30:47,438
Speaker 2: Do we want it to be let's let the projections

624
00:30:47,478 --> 00:30:49,638
Speaker 2: spit out, but we think it should be you look

625
00:30:49,678 --> 00:30:52,118
Speaker 2: at it and then you write the lineup, or you

626
00:30:52,198 --> 00:30:55,238
Speaker 2: look at the lineup and then we look at the projections. Ultimately,

627
00:30:55,878 --> 00:30:58,878
Speaker 2: I'll leave that up to him. My sense is I

628
00:30:58,998 --> 00:31:01,678
Speaker 2: want my manager that's using his years and years of

629
00:31:01,758 --> 00:31:05,478
Speaker 2: experience to write the lineup. And I thought this last

630
00:31:05,478 --> 00:31:09,558
Speaker 2: part here, Joe is really interesting about, you know, decision making,

631
00:31:09,998 --> 00:31:14,518
Speaker 2: analytics and the manager and that intersection. Ultimately, I do

632
00:31:14,598 --> 00:31:17,238
Speaker 2: want to leave it to him. This is Posey talking

633
00:31:17,238 --> 00:31:20,678
Speaker 2: about Bomel again. I just think it's important for him

634
00:31:20,678 --> 00:31:22,958
Speaker 2: to have that authority and for the guys on the

635
00:31:22,998 --> 00:31:27,158
Speaker 2: field to know that, hey, this is the guy that's

636
00:31:27,238 --> 00:31:30,158
Speaker 2: leading the charge for us, and we're going out there

637
00:31:30,198 --> 00:31:32,798
Speaker 2: to battle for him and he's got.

638
00:31:32,638 --> 00:31:36,278
Speaker 1: Our back through all of this. How about that perspective.

639
00:31:36,558 --> 00:31:41,718
Speaker 3: How about an amen? A right? That's that's beautiful right there.

640
00:31:42,038 --> 00:31:47,078
Speaker 3: That's exactly that is well, put that in my for

641
00:31:47,238 --> 00:31:51,878
Speaker 3: my sensibilities. That's exactly right. And this is not disparaging

642
00:31:51,958 --> 00:31:55,198
Speaker 3: to any part of a baseball operation. That's just the

643
00:31:55,198 --> 00:31:58,518
Speaker 3: way it should be. The leader is present, he's there

644
00:31:58,598 --> 00:32:00,998
Speaker 3: all the time when you talk to him. When a

645
00:32:00,998 --> 00:32:04,478
Speaker 3: player talks to him and he answers the player, he

646
00:32:04,518 --> 00:32:07,798
Speaker 3: answers with confidence. The manager does because he has the

647
00:32:07,878 --> 00:32:13,278
Speaker 3: authority to speak to the player freely without having to

648
00:32:13,358 --> 00:32:16,318
Speaker 3: consult somebody regarding what he's going to say to that

649
00:32:16,358 --> 00:32:18,998
Speaker 3: player right now. Because to hire this guy in the

650
00:32:18,998 --> 00:32:22,038
Speaker 3: first place, this manager, whomever is doing the hiring, you

651
00:32:22,118 --> 00:32:23,758
Speaker 3: have to have confidence in faith and you have to

652
00:32:23,798 --> 00:32:27,158
Speaker 3: have his back as he's doing what he's been assigned

653
00:32:27,198 --> 00:32:30,078
Speaker 3: to do, manage the baseball team, not be a middle

654
00:32:30,078 --> 00:32:35,678
Speaker 3: manager to manage the team. Yes, as a manager, you

655
00:32:35,678 --> 00:32:37,598
Speaker 3: could talk to anybody I don't care what the year

656
00:32:37,758 --> 00:32:41,318
Speaker 3: was we wanted. You always want information. You want the

657
00:32:41,358 --> 00:32:44,118
Speaker 3: best information. You want, give it to me, Give it

658
00:32:44,158 --> 00:32:46,318
Speaker 3: to me as much as you can, and then permit

659
00:32:46,438 --> 00:32:51,238
Speaker 3: me then to distribute it as I see fit. And

660
00:32:51,318 --> 00:32:53,758
Speaker 3: I'm going to consult you. Absolutely am in it. But

661
00:32:53,798 --> 00:32:56,398
Speaker 3: I would tell the analysts if you're really certain, like

662
00:32:56,438 --> 00:32:58,998
Speaker 3: one hundred percent, sort and please let me know. If

663
00:32:59,038 --> 00:33:02,438
Speaker 3: you're lukewarm, you could tell me you're lukewarm. I could

664
00:33:02,438 --> 00:33:05,638
Speaker 3: take that too. And if you're totally ambivalent, don't even

665
00:33:05,718 --> 00:33:08,078
Speaker 3: tell me about it. So when a guy comes up

666
00:33:08,118 --> 00:33:12,158
Speaker 3: to me and he's absolutely locked in on something, and

667
00:33:12,198 --> 00:33:14,678
Speaker 3: I really you know, I've got a good working relationship

668
00:33:14,678 --> 00:33:17,118
Speaker 3: with this dude, I think he's good. I'm in. I'm

669
00:33:17,158 --> 00:33:21,598
Speaker 3: absolutely in. But I've been involved in situations where the

670
00:33:21,678 --> 00:33:25,798
Speaker 3: people that you're getting this information from are really not

671
00:33:25,958 --> 00:33:28,238
Speaker 3: convicted and they don't have to answer any questions, and

672
00:33:28,278 --> 00:33:32,238
Speaker 3: they're sitting there and their work, and again, analytics provides

673
00:33:32,238 --> 00:33:34,878
Speaker 3: a safety and effort decision making. They're looking at large

674
00:33:34,878 --> 00:33:37,758
Speaker 3: sample sizes only, and they're not reading the tea leaves

675
00:33:37,758 --> 00:33:40,358
Speaker 3: of the day, which is really important, which are really

676
00:33:40,398 --> 00:33:43,598
Speaker 3: good manager is able to do so good for Buster.

677
00:33:44,198 --> 00:33:46,678
Speaker 3: I don't really know him that well, if at all,

678
00:33:47,998 --> 00:33:50,758
Speaker 3: but I'm here to tell I like the idea of

679
00:33:50,798 --> 00:33:55,798
Speaker 3: former guys, former players getting this opportunity to run organizations.

680
00:33:55,838 --> 00:33:58,518
Speaker 3: I think it's great, And furthermore, I like when the

681
00:33:58,638 --> 00:34:00,518
Speaker 3: player doing it came from that organization.

682
00:34:00,878 --> 00:34:02,918
Speaker 1: Well, Joe, let me let me have you speak to this.

683
00:34:02,998 --> 00:34:05,998
Speaker 2: One part that really stood out for me because it

684
00:34:06,078 --> 00:34:10,438
Speaker 2: did take a former player to have this point resonate.

685
00:34:11,158 --> 00:34:11,278
Speaker 3: Uh.

686
00:34:11,558 --> 00:34:14,398
Speaker 2: And that is the fact that as the player, the

687
00:34:14,438 --> 00:34:16,998
Speaker 2: guys in the field is he said, he has to

688
00:34:17,078 --> 00:34:20,558
Speaker 2: know that this is the guy who's leading the charge

689
00:34:20,558 --> 00:34:22,438
Speaker 2: for us. In other words, the manager is the one

690
00:34:22,438 --> 00:34:27,678
Speaker 2: who's making this decision. He's not implementing somebody else's decision

691
00:34:27,718 --> 00:34:31,918
Speaker 2: who's not accountable for those decisions. And in Buster's words,

692
00:34:32,838 --> 00:34:36,718
Speaker 2: we're going out there to battle for him. He's specifically

693
00:34:36,878 --> 00:34:41,078
Speaker 2: talking about the leadership dynamic between the manager and the

694
00:34:41,118 --> 00:34:45,598
Speaker 2: player that's so important. And let's face it, it has

695
00:34:45,678 --> 00:34:48,318
Speaker 2: been diminished a little bit as the chain of command

696
00:34:48,438 --> 00:34:51,998
Speaker 2: has changed and the power nexus has changed. But Buster's

697
00:34:52,038 --> 00:34:55,398
Speaker 2: talking about something that's been a traditional part of not

698
00:34:55,478 --> 00:34:59,318
Speaker 2: just baseball but all sports that as a competitor. You

699
00:34:59,398 --> 00:35:02,718
Speaker 2: are out there trying to win for your coach or

700
00:35:02,838 --> 00:35:06,398
Speaker 2: manager and because you no, he's invested in trust in you,

701
00:35:06,798 --> 00:35:09,598
Speaker 2: and he's the one who's ultimately putting you in those

702
00:35:09,598 --> 00:35:10,718
Speaker 2: spots to succeed.

703
00:35:11,078 --> 00:35:14,118
Speaker 3: Yeah, and the manager has been empowered to say with

704
00:35:14,278 --> 00:35:17,718
Speaker 3: conviction to this player what he believes. I'm telling you,

705
00:35:17,758 --> 00:35:20,198
Speaker 3: it's gotten to the point now where nobody's very few

706
00:35:20,198 --> 00:35:23,518
Speaker 3: are able to do that because and it happened to

707
00:35:23,518 --> 00:35:25,798
Speaker 3: me towards the end there too, you have to almost like, well,

708
00:35:25,878 --> 00:35:28,638
Speaker 3: let me check with so and so first before I

709
00:35:28,758 --> 00:35:33,398
Speaker 3: really tell this person what I think, because am I

710
00:35:33,438 --> 00:35:36,318
Speaker 3: stepping on toes? Is there something else that I'm not

711
00:35:36,358 --> 00:35:38,558
Speaker 3: aware of here? That I really need to be careful with.

712
00:35:38,878 --> 00:35:40,558
Speaker 3: So you have all of this in the back of

713
00:35:40,598 --> 00:35:44,118
Speaker 3: your mind, but if you have the total empowerment that

714
00:35:44,198 --> 00:35:47,278
Speaker 3: you can be speak to the player with conviction, then

715
00:35:47,878 --> 00:35:50,958
Speaker 3: the players truly know who the leader is. And after all,

716
00:35:51,078 --> 00:35:53,078
Speaker 3: you see them every day, you're in the locker room

717
00:35:53,078 --> 00:35:55,438
Speaker 3: with them, you fly with them, hotel lobbies, you see

718
00:35:55,478 --> 00:36:00,038
Speaker 3: them all the time. It's an omnipresent moment. All this

719
00:36:00,158 --> 00:36:03,478
Speaker 3: guy's always there, and this is the source of our

720
00:36:03,518 --> 00:36:08,158
Speaker 3: direction and leadership. Absolutely, and I'm not diminishing by any

721
00:36:08,198 --> 00:36:10,918
Speaker 3: means the front office. I love working with really good

722
00:36:10,918 --> 00:36:13,798
Speaker 3: front offices where you get like this union thing going

723
00:36:13,838 --> 00:36:15,918
Speaker 3: on and they're coming to you with things. But there's

724
00:36:15,958 --> 00:36:19,118
Speaker 3: got to be the ability to disagree, and there's got

725
00:36:19,118 --> 00:36:22,638
Speaker 3: to be the ability to when you disagree and you

726
00:36:22,718 --> 00:36:25,718
Speaker 3: arrive at a conclusion that whatever that conclusion is, we

727
00:36:25,758 --> 00:36:28,278
Speaker 3: go out and we do this, and if it doesn't work,

728
00:36:28,518 --> 00:36:31,878
Speaker 3: there's not a whole bunch of fingerpointing that occurs afterwards. Yes,

729
00:36:31,998 --> 00:36:34,638
Speaker 3: the players need to know the manager is the guy,

730
00:36:35,158 --> 00:36:37,638
Speaker 3: and when they feel that, there's like you always read

731
00:36:37,678 --> 00:36:40,278
Speaker 3: the I'd run through the wall for this guy. Yeah,

732
00:36:40,318 --> 00:36:43,038
Speaker 3: that's kind of what it feels like when you're totally committed.

733
00:36:43,198 --> 00:36:45,678
Speaker 3: When a manager looks a player in the eyeballs and

734
00:36:45,718 --> 00:36:48,958
Speaker 3: he tells him something sincerely from he truly believes to

735
00:36:49,038 --> 00:36:51,998
Speaker 3: be accurate and true of this guy, the player's going

736
00:36:52,038 --> 00:36:53,598
Speaker 3: to run with that man and it's going to make

737
00:36:53,718 --> 00:36:56,358
Speaker 3: him either bolster him up, make him feel greater. He

738
00:36:56,398 --> 00:36:58,998
Speaker 3: gets the ambivalent answer, he's going to be as confused

739
00:36:59,238 --> 00:37:03,398
Speaker 3: as everybody else. Is hire your manager, empower your manager,

740
00:37:03,518 --> 00:37:05,958
Speaker 3: support your manager, and then he does the same thing

741
00:37:05,958 --> 00:37:06,638
Speaker 3: with your players.

742
00:37:06,998 --> 00:37:08,598
Speaker 1: Yeah, it'll be interesting how it turns out.

743
00:37:08,638 --> 00:37:10,798
Speaker 2: The Giants obviously have done a one eighty, you know,

744
00:37:11,078 --> 00:37:15,558
Speaker 2: under far Hans Aedy. It definitely deep into analytics and

745
00:37:15,598 --> 00:37:19,078
Speaker 2: playing percentages. And I like what I've heard so far

746
00:37:19,118 --> 00:37:21,798
Speaker 2: from Buster Posey. It'll probably take some time to really

747
00:37:21,878 --> 00:37:25,238
Speaker 2: change the culture, but I like the fact that he

748
00:37:25,478 --> 00:37:28,478
Speaker 2: knows what he wants the Giants to be. He seems

749
00:37:28,718 --> 00:37:32,558
Speaker 2: very determined and assured of the direction he wants to go,

750
00:37:32,958 --> 00:37:34,838
Speaker 2: So that's going to be an interesting watch.

751
00:37:35,958 --> 00:37:36,198
Speaker 1: Hey.

752
00:37:36,278 --> 00:37:39,038
Speaker 2: I talked earlier about what do you want to be

753
00:37:39,758 --> 00:37:40,598
Speaker 2: when you grow up?

754
00:37:40,678 --> 00:37:43,238
Speaker 1: That's a question we hear a lot about kids.

755
00:37:44,038 --> 00:37:46,358
Speaker 2: There's been a poll about that in different countries and

756
00:37:46,598 --> 00:37:48,478
Speaker 2: I found the results fascinating.

757
00:37:48,838 --> 00:37:49,718
Speaker 1: We'll talk about that.

758
00:37:49,758 --> 00:38:04,398
Speaker 2: Next, Okay, Joe, I'll ask you the question when you

759
00:38:04,398 --> 00:38:06,438
Speaker 2: were a kid, what did you want to be growing up?

760
00:38:06,758 --> 00:38:10,918
Speaker 3: Wow? I was just discussing this a couple of days ago.

761
00:38:12,398 --> 00:38:14,198
Speaker 3: How about this is weird? But I wanted to be

762
00:38:14,198 --> 00:38:17,118
Speaker 3: a bus driver or a truck driver because I thought

763
00:38:17,158 --> 00:38:21,358
Speaker 3: the idea of driving somewhere, being on the road, going

764
00:38:21,398 --> 00:38:24,878
Speaker 3: places was always attractive to me. I loved the lines

765
00:38:25,958 --> 00:38:28,958
Speaker 3: in the middle of a highway, the passing lines, the

766
00:38:28,998 --> 00:38:31,958
Speaker 3: broken line. That to me was always attractive. There was

767
00:38:31,958 --> 00:38:34,838
Speaker 3: an allure to that. So I thought, as a kid,

768
00:38:35,238 --> 00:38:38,838
Speaker 3: if I can do something like that, that means pretty much,

769
00:38:39,318 --> 00:38:41,278
Speaker 3: you know, the United States was open to me. I

770
00:38:41,318 --> 00:38:44,198
Speaker 3: thought about driving to Florida or driving out west. I

771
00:38:44,278 --> 00:38:47,358
Speaker 3: always thought about going somewhere. I thought about going somewhere

772
00:38:47,758 --> 00:38:51,398
Speaker 3: via a vehicle, and I was the driver, and I thought,

773
00:38:51,438 --> 00:38:53,118
Speaker 3: what better way to do that than to drive a

774
00:38:53,158 --> 00:38:55,758
Speaker 3: bus or to drive a truck. How about that?

775
00:38:56,078 --> 00:38:59,678
Speaker 2: Now I understand the whole RV fascination exactly right. And boy,

776
00:38:59,758 --> 00:39:01,318
Speaker 2: you were cut out for all those years in the

777
00:39:01,358 --> 00:39:04,678
Speaker 2: minor leagues. Childhood dream come true. You just left the

778
00:39:04,758 --> 00:39:05,838
Speaker 2: driving to somebody else.

779
00:39:06,278 --> 00:39:08,878
Speaker 3: Absolutely, That's that's true, man. And I still like, just

780
00:39:08,958 --> 00:39:12,558
Speaker 3: drove down from Pennsylvania to Tampa two days to eight

781
00:39:12,598 --> 00:39:15,438
Speaker 3: hour days, beat up a little bit by the time

782
00:39:15,518 --> 00:39:18,518
Speaker 3: you get here, but still I enjoy that. There's a

783
00:39:18,718 --> 00:39:20,638
Speaker 3: there's this end component of that where you get lost

784
00:39:20,678 --> 00:39:23,398
Speaker 3: in your driving, and of course sometimes it gets a

785
00:39:23,438 --> 00:39:25,998
Speaker 3: little hectic around big cities. However, when you get out

786
00:39:26,038 --> 00:39:29,798
Speaker 3: there on the open road, there's something adventurous about that

787
00:39:30,478 --> 00:39:34,318
Speaker 3: and free about that that. I think that's probably what

788
00:39:34,478 --> 00:39:35,798
Speaker 3: my allure was back in the day.

789
00:39:36,358 --> 00:39:38,958
Speaker 2: Very cool for me. It was always writing. I always

790
00:39:39,038 --> 00:39:40,678
Speaker 2: love writing. I don't know why I would, just I

791
00:39:40,758 --> 00:39:43,958
Speaker 2: just came out that way. I was just wired that way. Now, listen,

792
00:39:44,118 --> 00:39:46,998
Speaker 2: I was playing sports, you know, every single day, no

793
00:39:47,038 --> 00:39:48,958
Speaker 2: matter what the sport was, what time of year.

794
00:39:50,198 --> 00:39:51,158
Speaker 1: You know, that was I as a.

795
00:39:51,198 --> 00:39:53,838
Speaker 2: Kid, the ultimate passion. And of course you want to

796
00:39:53,878 --> 00:39:55,918
Speaker 2: do that for as long as you can. But you know,

797
00:39:55,958 --> 00:39:58,838
Speaker 2: I knew deep down that that's what I was wired

798
00:39:58,878 --> 00:40:01,318
Speaker 2: to do, so it was easy for me. And now

799
00:40:01,318 --> 00:40:05,038
Speaker 2: I'm looking at Pole's Joe. The world has changed so much.

800
00:40:06,078 --> 00:40:09,038
Speaker 2: And there was a poll recently of asking kids from

801
00:40:09,038 --> 00:40:12,198
Speaker 2: twelve to eighteen what they want to be when they

802
00:40:12,278 --> 00:40:14,878
Speaker 2: grew up. You have any idea what the number one

803
00:40:14,918 --> 00:40:17,718
Speaker 2: answer was. They allowed kids to pick basically up to

804
00:40:17,798 --> 00:40:20,278
Speaker 2: three and rather than pin them into one thing. What

805
00:40:20,318 --> 00:40:23,798
Speaker 2: do you think was number one dream job for a

806
00:40:23,878 --> 00:40:25,198
Speaker 2: kid between twelve and eighteen?

807
00:40:25,598 --> 00:40:27,838
Speaker 3: A social media influencer.

808
00:40:27,358 --> 00:40:30,878
Speaker 2: Oh you are so good? Number one was a YouTuber.

809
00:40:31,518 --> 00:40:36,918
Speaker 2: Number two was a TikTok creator. Also, the top five

810
00:40:37,078 --> 00:40:41,558
Speaker 2: was an app or game developer, Instagram influencer, influencer.

811
00:40:41,838 --> 00:40:42,558
Speaker 1: That's where we're at.

812
00:40:42,998 --> 00:40:49,718
Speaker 2: And thankfully doctor and nurse did finish third, but entrepreneur

813
00:40:49,918 --> 00:40:53,678
Speaker 2: was fourth, artists was fifth, and the game developer was sixth.

814
00:40:54,038 --> 00:40:55,478
Speaker 2: You have to go all the way down the seventh

815
00:40:55,518 --> 00:40:59,718
Speaker 2: to get the athlete. Wow, it's really fascinating that you

816
00:40:59,758 --> 00:41:03,838
Speaker 2: know that has become the goal. And actually, there was

817
00:41:03,958 --> 00:41:07,118
Speaker 2: a poll in twenty twelve that asked the same question

818
00:41:08,078 --> 00:41:12,918
Speaker 2: in China of Chinese teenagers as opposed to American teenagers.

819
00:41:13,678 --> 00:41:17,838
Speaker 2: The American teenagers number one answer was a vlagger, a

820
00:41:17,918 --> 00:41:25,158
Speaker 2: video blogger. Right China, it was an astronaut, and teacher

821
00:41:25,278 --> 00:41:30,278
Speaker 2: was second. Vlogger was last. Interesting, it's fascinating that this

822
00:41:30,398 --> 00:41:37,278
Speaker 2: generation is now growing up understanding that you can achieve fame, success,

823
00:41:37,958 --> 00:41:42,318
Speaker 2: money very quickly, and in many cases, Joe, it seems

824
00:41:42,798 --> 00:41:46,198
Speaker 2: very easily. And a lot of them are making money

825
00:41:46,198 --> 00:41:50,438
Speaker 2: as teenagers online by promoting products, selling products, whatever. So

826
00:41:50,718 --> 00:41:54,318
Speaker 2: there is an entrepreneurial spirit to it. But the danger

827
00:41:54,398 --> 00:41:57,438
Speaker 2: to me is that you're so far into the rabbit

828
00:41:57,438 --> 00:41:59,958
Speaker 2: hole teenagers spending an average of five hours a day

829
00:41:59,998 --> 00:42:04,958
Speaker 2: on social media that the other world, virtual world, it

830
00:42:05,078 --> 00:42:08,958
Speaker 2: becomes your world. And this is the first generation is

831
00:42:08,998 --> 00:42:12,238
Speaker 2: growing up with this being the carrot that's driving them.

832
00:42:12,198 --> 00:42:14,798
Speaker 3: Wealth without work. I mean, that's one of the readiest

833
00:42:14,838 --> 00:42:18,518
Speaker 3: sins there is, and that always concerns me, man, and

834
00:42:18,558 --> 00:42:21,958
Speaker 3: it is a big concern. I love the Chinese kids' answers.

835
00:42:21,958 --> 00:42:24,678
Speaker 3: And as you were talking about this, I wrote down

836
00:42:24,718 --> 00:42:27,438
Speaker 3: liberal arts. It's just a thing of the past, and

837
00:42:27,518 --> 00:42:29,918
Speaker 3: I still would love to see a resurgence in that,

838
00:42:29,998 --> 00:42:33,238
Speaker 3: only because I think it creates a more complete human being.

839
00:42:34,318 --> 00:42:36,638
Speaker 3: And you talk about the liberal arts normally that's by

840
00:42:36,678 --> 00:42:39,278
Speaker 3: the time he got to college. Just and again, what

841
00:42:39,318 --> 00:42:42,558
Speaker 3: that means is that you become conversant on a variety

842
00:42:42,558 --> 00:42:45,478
Speaker 3: of different subjects and not just one particular thing that

843
00:42:45,558 --> 00:42:48,118
Speaker 3: you try to become good at. That should happen eventually,

844
00:42:48,638 --> 00:42:51,718
Speaker 3: but to expose yourself to a wider foundation or base

845
00:42:52,598 --> 00:42:55,558
Speaker 3: just makes you more interesting. It's just a more interesting person.

846
00:42:55,958 --> 00:42:58,038
Speaker 3: It's somebody that understands is I think you become more

847
00:42:58,038 --> 00:43:02,878
Speaker 3: apathetic naturally, there's all different positive just what you did

848
00:43:02,918 --> 00:43:05,518
Speaker 3: as a writer and reader and those kinds of things.

849
00:43:05,878 --> 00:43:07,838
Speaker 3: And I was and it's not going to happen, but

850
00:43:08,398 --> 00:43:11,118
Speaker 3: there'd be so wonderful even even if started in high

851
00:43:11,118 --> 00:43:13,998
Speaker 3: school bring the term up and really promote that kind

852
00:43:13,998 --> 00:43:17,558
Speaker 3: of an education is more more as compared to a

853
00:43:17,638 --> 00:43:21,558
Speaker 3: specific specialized education at an early age. To me, that's

854
00:43:22,238 --> 00:43:24,478
Speaker 3: it's just strong. It's just it's just not right. We're

855
00:43:24,518 --> 00:43:27,558
Speaker 3: developing people that again they think that they can get

856
00:43:27,678 --> 00:43:29,678
Speaker 3: they want not only yet, but they want things more

857
00:43:29,718 --> 00:43:32,838
Speaker 3: easily without having earned them or worked for them, or

858
00:43:32,878 --> 00:43:34,638
Speaker 3: gone through a lot of failure to get to that

859
00:43:34,718 --> 00:43:38,518
Speaker 3: particular moment. All that stuff is important to really create

860
00:43:38,518 --> 00:43:41,238
Speaker 3: the well rounded individual that we're looking for to lead

861
00:43:41,318 --> 00:43:43,758
Speaker 3: us down in the future. So that's that's my concern.

862
00:43:43,958 --> 00:43:48,478
Speaker 3: It's a very superficial method to a success that I

863
00:43:48,958 --> 00:43:52,318
Speaker 3: just don't it's just it's just it's just very dispariting,

864
00:43:52,398 --> 00:43:57,358
Speaker 3: I think. So I'd love to see more advocacy for

865
00:43:57,438 --> 00:44:01,678
Speaker 3: liberal arts, liberal arts educations and what that means, and

866
00:44:01,718 --> 00:44:04,798
Speaker 3: then get into your specialized areas you've really brought in

867
00:44:04,838 --> 00:44:05,278
Speaker 3: your base.

868
00:44:05,718 --> 00:44:07,918
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I know you're a big fan of Da Vinci.

869
00:44:07,958 --> 00:44:10,398
Speaker 2: When I was growing up, the phrase that I that

870
00:44:10,518 --> 00:44:12,998
Speaker 2: really caught my attention and I was so fascinated by

871
00:44:12,998 --> 00:44:15,518
Speaker 2: it when they would use the phrase he's a renaissance

872
00:44:15,558 --> 00:44:18,758
Speaker 2: man or a renaissance woman, right, and that's what you're

873
00:44:18,798 --> 00:44:22,838
Speaker 2: talking about. I remember Mike Reid, defensive tackle at Penn State,

874
00:44:23,118 --> 00:44:26,158
Speaker 2: was also a concert pianist. Yes, I thought that was

875
00:44:26,278 --> 00:44:29,798
Speaker 2: so cool, and that was, you know, if not a goal,

876
00:44:29,998 --> 00:44:33,278
Speaker 2: it was something that you admired and maybe strive for.

877
00:44:34,158 --> 00:44:36,598
Speaker 2: It's interesting that when I talked about China and Joe,

878
00:44:36,598 --> 00:44:38,638
Speaker 2: because all the kids are on TikTok, we get it.

879
00:44:38,998 --> 00:44:41,958
Speaker 2: And here in the States, the algorithms are built so

880
00:44:41,998 --> 00:44:45,598
Speaker 2: that you basically keep going down this rabbit hole of

881
00:44:45,718 --> 00:44:49,598
Speaker 2: you know, dance videos and it basically it's it's designed

882
00:44:49,638 --> 00:44:52,558
Speaker 2: to have you hooked on what you're already watching and

883
00:44:52,678 --> 00:44:55,918
Speaker 2: different versions of that. While the version that they have

884
00:44:56,438 --> 00:45:01,318
Speaker 2: in China is more educational, it's not designed to keep

885
00:45:01,398 --> 00:45:04,078
Speaker 2: you on and on and on watching the same thing

886
00:45:04,198 --> 00:45:06,358
Speaker 2: that are just vacuous and you don't use your mind.

887
00:45:06,918 --> 00:45:09,038
Speaker 2: But it's meant almost like turning the page of a

888
00:45:09,078 --> 00:45:11,998
Speaker 2: newspaper where you don't know what's on the page, and

889
00:45:12,038 --> 00:45:14,758
Speaker 2: you may come across the story you otherwise would not

890
00:45:14,878 --> 00:45:18,478
Speaker 2: have read and say that's pretty cool. So they are

891
00:45:18,518 --> 00:45:21,638
Speaker 2: presenting you not by following an algorithm, by what's going

892
00:45:21,678 --> 00:45:24,598
Speaker 2: to hook you on the same thing different versions, but

893
00:45:24,838 --> 00:45:27,518
Speaker 2: giving you. Hey, you should check this out because this

894
00:45:27,598 --> 00:45:30,598
Speaker 2: is interesting, even though it's a little bit different. I

895
00:45:30,678 --> 00:45:34,438
Speaker 2: think that's fascinating that the genes are giving their own

896
00:45:34,558 --> 00:45:38,238
Speaker 2: teenagers a different version of what we have here.

897
00:45:38,558 --> 00:45:41,998
Speaker 3: It's definitely it's a plan. I mean, definitely has to

898
00:45:41,998 --> 00:45:44,398
Speaker 3: be a subversive component to all of that. You know,

899
00:45:44,438 --> 00:45:47,438
Speaker 3: we hear about that all the time. You've read about that. Yeah,

900
00:45:47,438 --> 00:45:50,278
Speaker 3: we are just not feeding our kids very well right now, mentally,

901
00:45:50,278 --> 00:45:52,478
Speaker 3: we're not. We're not doing that at all. It's a

902
00:45:52,998 --> 00:45:56,558
Speaker 3: huge concern, you know, to pop culture the way it

903
00:45:56,678 --> 00:46:00,998
Speaker 3: is it is, it's a very superficial method, and you

904
00:46:01,118 --> 00:46:04,318
Speaker 3: have to be concerned as parents are a concerned the future.

905
00:46:04,398 --> 00:46:07,718
Speaker 3: You have to be concerned about that too. And why

906
00:46:08,318 --> 00:46:11,398
Speaker 3: just defending our group. I mean, yeah, we had a

907
00:46:11,398 --> 00:46:12,998
Speaker 3: good time, and there was a lot of stuff going

908
00:46:12,998 --> 00:46:17,078
Speaker 3: on in the seventies and there's a lot of superficiality

909
00:46:17,118 --> 00:46:20,198
Speaker 3: going there too. But you know, the collegial component of

910
00:46:20,198 --> 00:46:23,318
Speaker 3: the whole thing was really important, and when you went there,

911
00:46:23,358 --> 00:46:27,718
Speaker 3: it was more about free thinking and not being influenced

912
00:46:27,758 --> 00:46:29,958
Speaker 3: in the manner that a lot of universities do now,

913
00:46:30,078 --> 00:46:32,918
Speaker 3: right down to the point where faculties are so slanted

914
00:46:32,958 --> 00:46:37,198
Speaker 3: in a really strong liberal direction, and a more conservative

915
00:46:38,198 --> 00:46:41,638
Speaker 3: method is not being really taught or concerned about. So

916
00:46:41,678 --> 00:46:44,518
Speaker 3: there's all this kind of influence and going on to

917
00:46:44,638 --> 00:46:47,718
Speaker 3: that I think is concerning as supposed to more balanced approach.

918
00:46:47,878 --> 00:46:51,598
Speaker 3: It's just imbalanced. Everything's imbalanced, and it's all made way

919
00:46:51,638 --> 00:46:54,718
Speaker 3: too easy, and the thought of the ability or the

920
00:46:54,998 --> 00:46:58,518
Speaker 3: the attempt to really earn some things doesn't seem to

921
00:46:58,558 --> 00:47:02,558
Speaker 3: be as important anymore. And the edification's got to be

922
00:47:02,758 --> 00:47:06,398
Speaker 3: immediate comes from you know, how we get our food

923
00:47:06,398 --> 00:47:09,038
Speaker 3: if well, we just drove down and we walk into

924
00:47:09,118 --> 00:47:13,638
Speaker 3: any any like gas station, big service station, and you

925
00:47:13,718 --> 00:47:15,958
Speaker 3: walk in and you look at the food choices that

926
00:47:15,998 --> 00:47:18,398
Speaker 3: we make, just on all the racks and all the walls,

927
00:47:18,438 --> 00:47:22,478
Speaker 3: and you talk about why there's an obesity concern in

928
00:47:22,518 --> 00:47:24,758
Speaker 3: the United States. It's all it's right in front of

929
00:47:24,798 --> 00:47:27,638
Speaker 3: our very eyes, but nobody's paying attention, and eventually, if

930
00:47:27,638 --> 00:47:30,118
Speaker 3: we're not careful, it's really going to come and bite

931
00:47:30,198 --> 00:47:33,158
Speaker 3: us in the butt very hard. So yes, I can

932
00:47:33,238 --> 00:47:35,958
Speaker 3: understand why the Chinese are doing that for their kids

933
00:47:35,998 --> 00:47:39,158
Speaker 3: while they're attempting to influence our kids in a much

934
00:47:39,198 --> 00:47:40,118
Speaker 3: more negative manner.

935
00:47:40,398 --> 00:47:42,118
Speaker 2: One of the reasons I bring this up, Joe, is

936
00:47:42,238 --> 00:47:44,998
Speaker 2: how it relates to baseball, because what you're talking about

937
00:47:45,278 --> 00:47:48,078
Speaker 2: really is something that I've noticed as well. I don't

938
00:47:48,078 --> 00:47:50,478
Speaker 2: know how you didn't know anybody didn't notice that, the

939
00:47:50,598 --> 00:47:54,318
Speaker 2: lack of diligence. As you said, people want things easy,

940
00:47:54,318 --> 00:47:57,078
Speaker 2: they want a quick fix, they want to hack. What

941
00:47:57,278 --> 00:48:02,118
Speaker 2: about the reward of working on something through diligence, And

942
00:48:02,198 --> 00:48:05,758
Speaker 2: I think that defines the game of baseball. Baseball is

943
00:48:05,798 --> 00:48:08,478
Speaker 2: not an easy game to play, right. There's a long

944
00:48:08,598 --> 00:48:12,198
Speaker 2: learning curve. You just don't walk on the field and

945
00:48:12,238 --> 00:48:14,118
Speaker 2: become great. Even the best players in the world go

946
00:48:14,158 --> 00:48:18,518
Speaker 2: to the minor leagues, but even as a youth there's failure.

947
00:48:18,638 --> 00:48:21,438
Speaker 2: You have to deal with what's wrong with that? And

948
00:48:21,878 --> 00:48:24,998
Speaker 2: I just worry that the participation of the game will

949
00:48:25,038 --> 00:48:30,958
Speaker 2: decline because it is not an instant gratification type of sport.

950
00:48:31,558 --> 00:48:35,358
Speaker 2: It takes diligence and until that that ethic comes back

951
00:48:35,438 --> 00:48:40,198
Speaker 2: that some things are worth working at. I just worry

952
00:48:40,198 --> 00:48:41,638
Speaker 2: about the participation of the game.

953
00:48:42,438 --> 00:48:44,398
Speaker 3: That's a great comp that's a great way of putting

954
00:48:44,438 --> 00:48:47,998
Speaker 3: it your hundred percent right. It is a very very

955
00:48:48,038 --> 00:48:52,598
Speaker 3: difficult game. It's really hard. Baseball is really hard, and

956
00:48:52,638 --> 00:48:56,358
Speaker 3: from the hitting perspective, it's gotten even more difficult. Out

957
00:48:56,358 --> 00:48:57,918
Speaker 3: of all the parts of the game, that's the one

958
00:48:57,918 --> 00:49:02,598
Speaker 3: that really is accelerated. And I listen, I'm the wrong

959
00:49:02,598 --> 00:49:05,638
Speaker 3: guy to talk to to appease a lot of the

960
00:49:05,678 --> 00:49:08,958
Speaker 3: minds today because the minor leagues are fabulous and the

961
00:49:08,998 --> 00:49:12,158
Speaker 3: fact that we have virtually almost eliminated minor league baseball

962
00:49:12,158 --> 00:49:14,678
Speaker 3: and really reduced it to what it is, that is

963
00:49:14,718 --> 00:49:17,038
Speaker 3: really where your craft has learned. I know there's a

964
00:49:17,038 --> 00:49:19,718
Speaker 3: lot of expenditures there that kind of don't make sense

965
00:49:19,758 --> 00:49:21,758
Speaker 3: because you're not per team, You're not going to get

966
00:49:21,758 --> 00:49:24,438
Speaker 3: that many major league players, but you're going to get

967
00:49:24,438 --> 00:49:28,718
Speaker 3: a lot of major league coaches, managers, scouts, etc. Maybe

968
00:49:28,718 --> 00:49:31,518
Speaker 3: even some front office people, announcers, whatever. There's a lot,

969
00:49:31,838 --> 00:49:34,038
Speaker 3: there's a lot of complementary components of this that weren't

970
00:49:34,038 --> 00:49:38,038
Speaker 3: even talked about or considered. So, yes, it's a hard

971
00:49:38,118 --> 00:49:41,118
Speaker 3: game to be really good at to have your body

972
00:49:41,958 --> 00:49:46,758
Speaker 3: constantly perform in a way so that your mechanics are

973
00:49:46,758 --> 00:49:49,358
Speaker 3: in order on a nightly basis. I've talked about this

974
00:49:49,478 --> 00:49:51,798
Speaker 3: and everyday major league player people have no idea how

975
00:49:51,798 --> 00:49:54,158
Speaker 3: hard that is to be. That is really hard to

976
00:49:54,158 --> 00:49:55,958
Speaker 3: be that good every night. If you look at a

977
00:49:56,038 --> 00:49:59,158
Speaker 3: Soto as an example, to be that good every night

978
00:49:59,678 --> 00:50:02,558
Speaker 3: is not easy. Now maybe it came more nationally to him, whatever,

979
00:50:03,078 --> 00:50:05,238
Speaker 3: but not easy because a part of that is the

980
00:50:05,318 --> 00:50:09,118
Speaker 3: mental anguish that is concerned with that. So yes, the

981
00:50:09,158 --> 00:50:12,518
Speaker 3: earning component I got. I just one of the biggest

982
00:50:12,558 --> 00:50:14,598
Speaker 3: disappointments I've had over the last several years is the

983
00:50:15,078 --> 00:50:17,718
Speaker 3: kind of almost like I said, the elimination of minor

984
00:50:17,798 --> 00:50:20,958
Speaker 3: league baseball, how important it is and what's being taught there,

985
00:50:20,958 --> 00:50:23,358
Speaker 3: and on the level that it's being taught there, and

986
00:50:23,438 --> 00:50:26,198
Speaker 3: all the great lessons learned by being there, and the

987
00:50:26,238 --> 00:50:29,598
Speaker 3: difficulty of being there, the bus rides, the amount of

988
00:50:29,678 --> 00:50:32,198
Speaker 3: meal money. I know, there's been a big concern about

989
00:50:32,198 --> 00:50:35,278
Speaker 3: housing and how some minor league players more recently complained

990
00:50:35,278 --> 00:50:37,718
Speaker 3: about the fact that they couldn't afford it. Who could.

991
00:50:38,198 --> 00:50:40,078
Speaker 3: When you're in the minor league, man, you couldn't afford anything.

992
00:50:40,158 --> 00:50:41,638
Speaker 3: You just had to scrap. You had to try to

993
00:50:41,638 --> 00:50:44,238
Speaker 3: save money and the off season by doing a job

994
00:50:44,278 --> 00:50:46,838
Speaker 3: and keeping a couple of bucks, or having you calling

995
00:50:46,878 --> 00:50:49,518
Speaker 3: your dat up and having a Western Union use some

996
00:50:49,598 --> 00:50:52,638
Speaker 3: fifty bucks when you really needed in Bakersfield. I mean,

997
00:50:52,958 --> 00:50:56,118
Speaker 3: this is all good stuff. I don't understand why that's

998
00:50:56,158 --> 00:51:00,798
Speaker 3: not considered important anymore. The facilitation of everything really kind

999
00:51:00,798 --> 00:51:02,318
Speaker 3: of is almost like the ruination.

1000
00:51:02,678 --> 00:51:05,478
Speaker 2: Well, Joey, you always bring us so a fine conclusion

1001
00:51:05,518 --> 00:51:08,158
Speaker 2: to the episodes of the Book of Joe And hopefully

1002
00:51:08,158 --> 00:51:10,798
Speaker 2: you've got something today that hits on this theme of

1003
00:51:11,198 --> 00:51:16,158
Speaker 2: either diligence or reward hard work. Usually you find an

1004
00:51:16,198 --> 00:51:18,718
Speaker 2: amazing way of tying everything up.

1005
00:51:18,838 --> 00:51:19,718
Speaker 1: What do you got today?

1006
00:51:19,998 --> 00:51:22,478
Speaker 3: I have three of them. Actually, they're all interconnected, and

1007
00:51:22,518 --> 00:51:27,998
Speaker 3: they do honestly blend right in Weirdly, I got to

1008
00:51:28,038 --> 00:51:30,638
Speaker 3: give you all three because they all they're all germane

1009
00:51:30,638 --> 00:51:33,798
Speaker 3: to what we just talked about. Number one, success is

1010
00:51:33,838 --> 00:51:38,638
Speaker 3: blocked by concentrating on it and planning for it. Success

1011
00:51:38,838 --> 00:51:42,318
Speaker 3: is shy. It won't come out while you're watching. That

1012
00:51:42,478 --> 00:51:45,678
Speaker 3: was Tennessee Williams. And that's so true. If you're always

1013
00:51:45,718 --> 00:51:49,958
Speaker 3: waiting for the golden ray of sunshine to occur, it's

1014
00:51:49,998 --> 00:51:51,678
Speaker 3: not happening, man, But then all of a sudden, you

1015
00:51:51,718 --> 00:51:53,518
Speaker 3: wake up one day and pum, the sun's right in

1016
00:51:53,558 --> 00:51:56,398
Speaker 3: your face. Success is shy. It won't come out while

1017
00:51:56,438 --> 00:51:59,078
Speaker 3: you're watching. I love that and then two more to

1018
00:51:59,118 --> 00:52:04,758
Speaker 3: your point, experience the name men give to their mistakes, right.

1019
00:52:04,958 --> 00:52:09,238
Speaker 3: I mean, if you really want to formulate or compile

1020
00:52:09,278 --> 00:52:13,678
Speaker 3: this large cliche of experience, you've got to make a

1021
00:52:13,678 --> 00:52:15,798
Speaker 3: ton of mistakes, and you got to look stupid, you

1022
00:52:15,878 --> 00:52:18,598
Speaker 3: got to embarrass yourself sometimes, and you got to just

1023
00:52:19,318 --> 00:52:20,878
Speaker 3: like how do you even wake up in the wonder

1024
00:52:20,918 --> 00:52:22,998
Speaker 3: how do you get to this next point? That's what

1025
00:52:23,118 --> 00:52:26,918
Speaker 3: experience is. And the last point from Kim Blanchard, the

1026
00:52:26,998 --> 00:52:31,318
Speaker 3: key to leadership is influenced, not authority, and that's something

1027
00:52:31,398 --> 00:52:33,318
Speaker 3: we talk about all the time. So I mean that's

1028
00:52:33,398 --> 00:52:37,918
Speaker 3: kind of like with Busters talking about in San Francisco specifically,

1029
00:52:38,678 --> 00:52:42,118
Speaker 3: and making mistakes. It's okay to make mistakes. It's okay

1030
00:52:42,638 --> 00:52:44,158
Speaker 3: to go out there and try something and screw it

1031
00:52:44,238 --> 00:52:46,198
Speaker 3: up time and time again, because you know what, eventually

1032
00:52:46,198 --> 00:52:50,838
Speaker 3: when it does work, while it's so satisfying and compelling.

1033
00:52:51,318 --> 00:52:53,718
Speaker 3: So those are my three. I think we're on the

1034
00:52:53,718 --> 00:52:56,238
Speaker 3: same page. And I love the fact that that success

1035
00:52:56,318 --> 00:52:56,678
Speaker 3: is shy.

1036
00:52:57,118 --> 00:53:00,998
Speaker 2: I love that all really really good the failure, especially

1037
00:53:00,998 --> 00:53:03,238
Speaker 2: for young people, and I try to tell them all

1038
00:53:03,278 --> 00:53:05,038
Speaker 2: the time, go ahead and make mistakes.

1039
00:53:05,078 --> 00:53:05,998
Speaker 1: That's where you're learning.

1040
00:53:06,638 --> 00:53:09,198
Speaker 2: You know, everybody wanted to be a finished product right away,

1041
00:53:10,358 --> 00:53:14,078
Speaker 2: but you become that finished product. Not by being good,

1042
00:53:14,158 --> 00:53:16,638
Speaker 2: certainly helps, but by making mistakes so wonderful.

1043
00:53:16,638 --> 00:53:18,358
Speaker 1: Who is that from again? That was that was the

1044
00:53:18,478 --> 00:53:19,358
Speaker 1: Tennessee Williams.

1045
00:53:19,718 --> 00:53:23,078
Speaker 3: But the Oscar Wilde was experienced. The name Oscar, the

1046
00:53:23,158 --> 00:53:26,358
Speaker 3: name men give to their mistakes is experience. Great.

1047
00:53:26,478 --> 00:53:28,718
Speaker 2: Great way to end it, Joe, great job. We'll see

1048
00:53:28,718 --> 00:53:29,998
Speaker 2: you next time on the book of Joe.

1049
00:53:30,278 --> 00:53:31,478
Speaker 3: You two brothers. Thanks man,