Speaker 1: M hm hm. Welcome back to another edition all the Smoke. Jack.
Speaker 1: We got a good one today, one of the best shows,
Speaker 1: if not the best show on TV. Man uh inside
Speaker 1: of the NBA. We got our brother Kenney Smith here today. Yes, sir,
Speaker 1: how are you? I mean, this is the best time
Speaker 1: of the year. I know you're back and forth shooting
Speaker 1: in Atlanta. You're in l A right now. It's the
Speaker 1: best time, like for a fan, right for a fane.
Speaker 1: That grind when I get there, I'm fine, but you know,
Speaker 1: going back and forth. I'm in l A as you know, uh,
Speaker 1: going back and forth to a and that's a grime.
Speaker 1: But I mean, this is the best time of year
Speaker 1: in terms of watching it. I've been a fan of
Speaker 1: basketball before I was even good at it. I was
Speaker 1: always a fan. I was a dude who like if
Speaker 1: you you put up a poster and then you just
Speaker 1: saw it like an arm and I'm like, oh, that's
Speaker 1: I can tell everything. So that Yeah, this is a
Speaker 1: great time. How is it balancing life? Obviously you're au
Speaker 1: dad as well. You have a whole family here in
Speaker 1: l A. But you're constantly moving forward your job. You
Speaker 1: always do what you want, like you could always make
Speaker 1: time for what you want to Like, it's never doesn't
Speaker 1: feel heavy until it's something you don't want to do, Like,
Speaker 1: you know, I gotta get back to a you practice.
Speaker 1: I want to do that, so that don't feel heavy.
Speaker 1: You tell me I have to be at a production
Speaker 1: meeting at seven. I'm like, man, that's a long ass
Speaker 1: Like yeah, so you always you know, family, friends, relationships,
Speaker 1: It's like, it's never heavy when you want to do it.
Speaker 1: For really, you've been in a few movies. You've got
Speaker 1: an up and coming movie called Hustle with Adam Sandler
Speaker 1: put a disclaim out. First of all, I've always been
Speaker 1: in movies as myself, Like I come in, Oh, there's
Speaker 1: Kitty Spif and he says this, this is the first
Speaker 1: time I'm in a movie, and uh, the Hustle is
Speaker 1: like the movie Hustle is a different animal from me
Speaker 1: because I never had aspiration to be an actor. I
Speaker 1: know what I saw the episode where you had to act.
Speaker 1: I never So I got a call from Adam and
Speaker 1: me and him were cool. We don't know each other
Speaker 1: where we tech text and call. Now we do, but
Speaker 1: then at that time we didn't. And he says that, man,
Speaker 1: I got this movie. It's a it's a drama t
Speaker 1: and uh, I got a part from you. It's a
Speaker 1: basketball movie. I think you'd be good in it. I'm like,
Speaker 1: I just send a script over. In my mind, I'm like,
Speaker 1: He's like, it's in the pandemic. You're gonna have to
Speaker 1: spend like ten days and before you quarantine and that.
Speaker 1: Send it over. So I'm looking through the script. I
Speaker 1: see guys in it. I called him back. I'm like,
Speaker 1: I don't see my name in it. He's like, now
Speaker 1: you're Leon. I'm like, Leon, got thirty two pages a dialogue. Bro,
Speaker 1: I've never acted. And I was like, I'm no. He's like, no,
Speaker 1: you'd be great at it. I know you'll be good.
Speaker 1: Just I'll get So I had to acting coach Jack
Speaker 1: like a whole and so I told him right there,
Speaker 1: I said, hold on, let me think about it, because
Speaker 1: I know how serious he takes this, like he's a
Speaker 1: pro at this, like I'm not a pro at it.
Speaker 1: And I knew it was going to take a real
Speaker 1: commitment because I played his best friend in the movie.
Speaker 1: So I was like, I called back. I talked to
Speaker 1: my my daughters there there in the business, they act
Speaker 1: and they're they're actors, and they were like, you gotta
Speaker 1: do it. You just can't people die for this part.
Speaker 1: And I was like, I call him back. I was like,
Speaker 1: all right, I want to do it, but I gotta
Speaker 1: I need who's the acting coach. I was doing two
Speaker 1: three hours a day. She they scheduled me for like
Speaker 1: an hour, and I always told him to do double
Speaker 1: because I just wanted to be on point. I just
Speaker 1: said I didn't want it to feel like I was
Speaker 1: like the only one on sat that. You know, it's
Speaker 1: Queen the Tiefer's in the movie. You know, it's just
Speaker 1: real actors like that, people who have done it. So
Speaker 1: I just wanted to be ready. Did you enjoy it?
Speaker 1: It was different. I did enjoy it, hundred percent. Enjoyed it.
Speaker 1: Uh you know. We shot in Majorca, Spain, shot at Philly,
Speaker 1: shot in New York, you know, all over there. It
Speaker 1: was just crazy. But it's like a vulnerability that I
Speaker 1: didn't know that you needed. Like like now, like when
Speaker 1: we're talking, you look away, you kind of the cameraman here,
Speaker 1: you look over here, and but when you're acting, you
Speaker 1: just talk to the person you never lose eye contact with.
Speaker 1: And so I never talked to anybody where I don't
Speaker 1: lose eye contact them for a minute. So that was
Speaker 1: like a little uncomfortable. So I had to break out
Speaker 1: of that. I do it now, it doesn't even bother
Speaker 1: I'm not do it now. I can look at people
Speaker 1: with but it takes a different vulnerability to do stuff
Speaker 1: like that. And my first scene was like a you know,
Speaker 1: they don't shoot in order, So my first seed is like,
Speaker 1: he's almost crying and I gotta I was like, and
Speaker 1: the girls are dancing over the sideline, like, what's happened
Speaker 1: to that? Se? So Hustle comes out soon on Netflix.
Speaker 1: You guys enjoy this teaser. Yeah, this moments, man, I
Speaker 1: saw it. That wasn't him, that wasn't even close to him.
Speaker 1: It's my fault. I rushed this whole thing. Remember our
Speaker 1: freshman year when we were playing a gaza and they
Speaker 1: put John Stockton on me. You're like, watch out for
Speaker 1: this guy, and I was like, does nobody look like
Speaker 1: a damn insurance salesman gonna bust my ass? Mad way
Speaker 1: through the second half two twenty assists, None of y'all
Speaker 1: would look at me. Remember that? Of course I remember that.
Speaker 1: Do you ever remember me playing like that again. No,
Speaker 1: because I never want to feel like feeling again. So
Speaker 1: tonight is a good thing. And nothing was good about that,
Speaker 1: believe me. Also got a book coming up. Talk to
Speaker 1: us about that. It happened. Actually, I used to say
Speaker 1: I want to write a book, and I never I
Speaker 1: always said I could write a good article, I can't
Speaker 1: write a book like and then uh, you know, the
Speaker 1: whole social justice thing happened. And when I walked off
Speaker 1: the set, I was sitting on you know, with when
Speaker 1: Floyd happened, and I was sitting on there, and I'm
Speaker 1: looking at what's going on, and the players are like
Speaker 1: walking out and they said they're not gonna play, and
Speaker 1: and I went into I went into to work that
Speaker 1: day and I was it was on my mind. It
Speaker 1: wasn't like if it's on everybody's heart in their mind.
Speaker 1: And I'm walking through and I'm like guy at the gate,
Speaker 1: Hey Kenny, how you doing? Guy who comes and greets
Speaker 1: me to let me in, Hey Kenny, the girl does
Speaker 1: make up. Hey we're gonna I said, damn, everything is
Speaker 1: the same, like none to happen, so I can't be
Speaker 1: here today. So I just thought I was like I
Speaker 1: can't just be a talking head on TV, you know,
Speaker 1: and just come out like and this. I'm like, I
Speaker 1: gotta join the March dudes of March. I was like,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna join the players. I'm not, I can't be here.
Speaker 1: And I walked off and from then my phone rang
Speaker 1: like a week later. It's like, you need to write
Speaker 1: a book or why you did it, how you did
Speaker 1: and how you got there. And then all of the
Speaker 1: things I started started flushing out of me. I was like,
Speaker 1: that's why I did it. I was like, oh, when
Speaker 1: I heard my Bill Russell told me this back in
Speaker 1: when I was in my coach and but I was like,
Speaker 1: that's and then so the book is about and I
Speaker 1: wrote it kind of to my kids in a sense.
Speaker 1: It's to all the people I met over my life
Speaker 1: that were great and what I took from them and
Speaker 1: I wish I had known and now at five, if
Speaker 1: I know now at so I'm giving it to everybody,
Speaker 1: like from Bill Russell, Michael Jordan's to Dean Smith too.
Speaker 1: Uh a good friend of mine. Guy Oh Serry who
Speaker 1: who's biggest guy in entertainment, slept on my couch when
Speaker 1: he was seventeen. Uh, guy named David Kohler. Kohler is
Speaker 1: the plumbingu He was a we went to college, well,
Speaker 1: he went to Duke, I went to I was at
Speaker 1: Chapel Hill and he stayed with me the summer. I
Speaker 1: didn't know this guy from him and he's just got
Speaker 1: one of the biggest plumbing companies. And what's just like
Speaker 1: the people I ran into. I'm like, damn, you know,
Speaker 1: so it's just all the things I took from them. Yeah,
Speaker 1: born and raising Queens NYC. Talk about queens and what
Speaker 1: it was like in the seven is growing up? Oh, man,
Speaker 1: queens more eighties? Brother, I know, you know, seventies and eighties.
Speaker 1: Man bottom on seven saying I was going to seven.
Speaker 1: Say let's say less. But New York is like it's
Speaker 1: basketball man, Like oh, people always say, like the New
Speaker 1: York players have New York had the best. We have
Speaker 1: that l a Chicago and maybe used to be that
Speaker 1: way back in your back in your childhood. Know what
Speaker 1: the best players of California now best players. I'm telling
Speaker 1: you I had the best dribblers for a long time.
Speaker 1: They have the motherckers. Couldn't hear the house of day
Speaker 1: was in the kid listening ball I never lost. When
Speaker 1: I was on the I would I went seventy two
Speaker 1: and one and like four years, like I love the
Speaker 1: one game and I'm the only one myself at olden
Speaker 1: polities who made it Like we had What I always
Speaker 1: say about New York, I was like, we don't have
Speaker 1: the best players never, but we always have the guys
Speaker 1: who shouldn't make it making. We have those guys because
Speaker 1: they there's an understanding and a love for the game
Speaker 1: that's different. Meaning I always said, guys from other cities
Speaker 1: when we used to go places like, oh, he scored
Speaker 1: thirty and be like, that's not the first question we asked,
Speaker 1: Like the first question we always asked is did you win?
Speaker 1: The second question we always asked, how did you guard
Speaker 1: your man? Did your guy your ask Like that's a
Speaker 1: that's always the first two questions. So when guys when
Speaker 1: I went to other places, they'd be like, I had
Speaker 1: thirty today, So they always had a precedence on scoring.
Speaker 1: Where guys I grew up with, you know, or even
Speaker 1: from our every like Ray for Austin, Let's say, like
Speaker 1: he could dominate the game without scoring, you know, So
Speaker 1: we never That's why guys I thought made it who
Speaker 1: shouldn't make it. Morm Jackson, can't jump, can't shoot, show
Speaker 1: us help played twenty years in the league and let
Speaker 1: the NBA history and scoring those that's those are the
Speaker 1: guys that right, those are the guys guys who they
Speaker 1: should be playing d one they make it, y'all guys
Speaker 1: in l A, y'all got dudes. Y'all got them dudes
Speaker 1: like you got you know when you you got the
Speaker 1: dudes that like where are you? You got you some
Speaker 1: people out that way question we had, We had the mode.
Speaker 1: We had six guys in the Ad Hobson game from Sexy.
Speaker 1: They're they're just guys who like they can't miss prospects.
Speaker 1: We didn't we didn't have the can't miss prospects all
Speaker 1: the time, but we had those guys who just shouldn't
Speaker 1: make it. Yeah, like just like why is he in
Speaker 1: the league? You know? But my brother, honestly was a
Speaker 1: big part of that culture. My brother Vince, he brought
Speaker 1: an AU team when they think they were eight nine
Speaker 1: years old, and it was ray for Speedy Claxton, Lamar,
Speaker 1: Eric was Eric Barley, like all of these dudes like
Speaker 1: they were all on this church. No no, but he
Speaker 1: this is we were called See. He coached them from
Speaker 1: third grade and then he would send them to those
Speaker 1: au teams. But from third grade and night every day
Speaker 1: they were all in my house like all these kids.
Speaker 1: I'm like, where do you find these kids like this?
Speaker 1: And he's like, Kenny, I always find the kids. But
Speaker 1: if I wanted more than they do, I never work
Speaker 1: him out. And he had a runabout maybe twenty guys
Speaker 1: that made the league. The same kids you're talking about, though,
Speaker 1: Kenny was. We was fearing them when we was high school.
Speaker 1: The church was Lamar Old him Elm brand On. That's
Speaker 1: the older ones once they got older. But if you say, well,
Speaker 1: you asked Lamar like who taught you how to play? Him?
Speaker 1: Vincent Smith, you asked sham Guard who taught me how
Speaker 1: to play? He's like, oh, Kenny Smith brother? You who
Speaker 1: taught me how to play? Like Kenny Smith brother? Like
Speaker 1: he was Kenny Anderson. You asked them who told him
Speaker 1: hoout to play like? And you think about this that
Speaker 1: you set the top ball handlers ever in the history
Speaker 1: of basketball. They go sham Ray, Kenny Anderson. They all
Speaker 1: played for my brothers. That's it's a similar side. And
Speaker 1: Lamar it is really just a bigger versions because they
Speaker 1: all play, they all have that. That's that's my brother.
Speaker 1: He had that. He had that God Mighta's touch. They
Speaker 1: used to call him Mighty stuff one. It was crazy.
Speaker 1: One time I'm sitting there, I'm going on the airport
Speaker 1: and I had, you know, I'm going to the airport
Speaker 1: and Limo rolls down and it's it's ditty. He's like, yo,
Speaker 1: Kenny Man. I'm like that, what's up? What's up? Puff?
Speaker 1: Because he's puffed then he wasn't. It's like, what's up? Puff?
Speaker 1: He's like, yo, your brother is a starmaker. Like right,
Speaker 1: I was like, I gotta meet him. I'm like, damn music.
Speaker 1: He's like, he's like he's the star maker. That was
Speaker 1: when did basketball coming in next? For you? Always like
Speaker 1: we grew up like my household looked like we were.
Speaker 1: We were listening to This is before cable and all
Speaker 1: that and where you can see every game on TV.
Speaker 1: We had the radio on. We listen to Marv Albert
Speaker 1: Like I would be like, you know, Fraser brings the
Speaker 1: ball across the mid car line. He passes over a role.
Speaker 1: But I grew up with Marv Albert, so he brought
Speaker 1: the texture of the game just through radio, and so
Speaker 1: we listened to games. My pops. I cried when the
Speaker 1: Knicks lost. I'll be sitting at home crying. Like I said,
Speaker 1: I had everybody posted. I'd wait outside of Madison Square
Speaker 1: Garden get autographs. You know, my personal autograph. Remember Bob
Speaker 1: Love from the Bulls. He was the first guy to
Speaker 1: stop give me an autographs all all the other guys.
Speaker 1: Trash Love was real, the bean, butter Bean Love. He
Speaker 1: was good. It was real small. He kind of played
Speaker 1: like you. That's crazy, wasn't trash played like that? He
Speaker 1: played like me. He was played like Bob. He was
Speaker 1: like a six eight. He was one of sixt eight
Speaker 1: slim handle the Rocks. Shoot. Yeah, he played like you
Speaker 1: actually got out butter Bean. So but yeah, we were
Speaker 1: a basketball family, so we love the sport. My mom
Speaker 1: rest of souls. She was a sports fan. I called
Speaker 1: my mom in the league, right, So, hey, what are
Speaker 1: you doing that? Damn Derek j Ain't hitting Dan like
Speaker 1: like just like she was that type of bomb. So
Speaker 1: we always loved sports going in our house. So you
Speaker 1: got a Showtime documentary coming point, guys, can you talk
Speaker 1: about that? Yeah, it's the um, you know all all
Speaker 1: the point Guards that came out of New York and um,
Speaker 1: you know actually doing it with um Kevin Durant's company
Speaker 1: produced it and brought and asked me to be part
Speaker 1: of it. I was like sure, So I kind of
Speaker 1: filled in some gaps and holes. Who the interview Once
Speaker 1: they start, like I said, realize the connection that they
Speaker 1: all have played on my a and with my brother,
Speaker 1: it's like they're like, oh, can we get how do
Speaker 1: we I was like, oh, you gotta interview him. He's like, yeah,
Speaker 1: he played and they kept saying my name, saying yeah,
Speaker 1: Kenny's brother Kenny. It was like, so the connection was
Speaker 1: like you gotta ep it and like make sure we're
Speaker 1: getting a story correct. But New York point Guards is
Speaker 1: like a secret. Yeah, yeah, no secret. We we we
Speaker 1: we give up. We'll give up our girl before we
Speaker 1: give up the basket you have. You can't take this rock.
Speaker 1: You know, those are the type of things that you know,
Speaker 1: we dribbled through key holes and all of that. And
Speaker 1: it's funny because I watched today's game from Kyrie and
Speaker 1: Steph and they was like, oh, that's the best. I
Speaker 1: was like, that's the stuff we did when we well
Speaker 1: at home. It really was the way we played when
Speaker 1: we were home, but we would never do it in
Speaker 1: a game like everybody had the game wasn't ready for it. No,
Speaker 1: it was like it was like you get pulled out,
Speaker 1: like you get chastise for doing the stuff that guys
Speaker 1: do today. But everybody had that in their repertoire. Everybody
Speaker 1: like I'm like, like, no, that's not the best handle
Speaker 1: I've seen, like ever, Like, no, Carrie's got a great
Speaker 1: handle for the NBA, He's got the best, But no,
Speaker 1: he's not the best handle I've seen. And who's the
Speaker 1: best hand that you've seen? You feel like? And then
Speaker 1: if then that skilled play like he know how to play,
Speaker 1: was in the league and not trying to make him
Speaker 1: play like a regular point guard the league, he would
Speaker 1: have been so much better. Let me tell you, Skips handled.
Speaker 1: So I didn't know Skip at Skip. I knew him
Speaker 1: as Race because he was played for my AU team.
Speaker 1: So I'm hearing, oh, you gotta go see Skip, tell
Speaker 1: my louse, Skip, tell my loup. So literally I come back.
Speaker 1: I'm working working out. I'm still in the league at
Speaker 1: the time, so I'm working out and my brother brings
Speaker 1: ray For to the gym and he's like, well, we
Speaker 1: had to write a passage. So if you were the
Speaker 1: younger kid, you had to always rebound for the pro
Speaker 1: or the college dude. So the high school dudes were
Speaker 1: reround for ray For and it's so on and so far.
Speaker 1: So you had to and Rayfer when those guys were
Speaker 1: rebound for me when I needed to work out, that
Speaker 1: was the only job. So anyway, so Rafer was there
Speaker 1: at the gym and he's working out and he's passing
Speaker 1: me the ball and I'm like, after the game, after
Speaker 1: I work out, I said, told my brother, I gotta
Speaker 1: go up town to see this, you know, go see skipped.
Speaker 1: But he knew it was skipped. I had no idea.
Speaker 1: I go up town. Rayfer walks in the park and
Speaker 1: the park goes crazy and I'm like, Ray, He's like,
Speaker 1: I'm here to see to do skip. He's like, I'm skipped.
Speaker 1: Like like what he's like. So he goes in and
Speaker 1: he's doing all this stuff and I pulled him aside.
Speaker 1: I said, Ray, why don't you do this in an
Speaker 1: NBA game. He's like, no, you can't do this stuff.
Speaker 1: And I'm real guy, I said, you could do it.
Speaker 1: What you're doing against these dudes, you can actually do
Speaker 1: so he and alim Um only to cut off. Yeah,
Speaker 1: this always talked when we talked about I think we're
Speaker 1: talking about the day I said, this is one guy
Speaker 1: that was playground that could have played in the league
Speaker 1: and dominated Alan. He was six six, handled like a
Speaker 1: point guard. Alimo I know, he know. He grew up
Speaker 1: in my uncle's building. Yeah, so my my uncle was like,
Speaker 1: he was a hustler. He wasn't. He wasn't a drug dealer,
Speaker 1: was but he was a hustler. So he owned like
Speaker 1: four or five buildings up in Harlem, and Alimo stayed
Speaker 1: in one of them. So yeah, no question. So I'm
Speaker 1: watching Ali play and I'm like, Ali, you could be
Speaker 1: in the league. He's like, nah, Kenny, I don't think
Speaker 1: I could be in the league. I'm like, no, Ali,
Speaker 1: you could be in the league because he was better
Speaker 1: than Raper. And so I call it. I called this
Speaker 1: is the first year the G League. The NBA now
Speaker 1: in the G League, and so I get him a tryout.
Speaker 1: He didn't go, really, he didn't go, and I called
Speaker 1: him a week later, I'm like, he dodged. Do you
Speaker 1: know when somebody dodged in your call. He never wanted
Speaker 1: to do it. He's the same guy that he and
Speaker 1: Ray Forer got the ticket to go to the college together,
Speaker 1: and he decided to cash the ticket in and Rafer
Speaker 1: went to a talk and became Ray for He would
Speaker 1: have been he would have been in the league for sure.
Speaker 1: Top five point guards ever ever New York, New York
Speaker 1: point guards. All right, I'm in the top five, So
Speaker 1: wed right, gotta put yourself in there now. I mean,
Speaker 1: I'm the most unique in this sense. I was the
Speaker 1: first guy who could shoot and you don't want to
Speaker 1: want dunk contest too. Yeah, I was the only guy
Speaker 1: who could shoot from New York like they I was,
Speaker 1: and I made it a point to be a shooter.
Speaker 1: I was like, because everybody was handling, I'm like, I'm
Speaker 1: gonna shoot, I'm gonna learn how to shoot. You know,
Speaker 1: you probably are not the only one. Yeah. And then
Speaker 1: I that was in a contest called a Pepsi Hot Shot. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I went from city to city and I went to
Speaker 1: the finals of the Pepsi Hot Shot and that's what
Speaker 1: I really learned how to shoot. Yeah, So without question,
Speaker 1: so I'm I'm in there. I would say Kenny Anderson
Speaker 1: is probably the top. He's the highest. I think he's
Speaker 1: the best high school player I've ever seen ever, and
Speaker 1: I've seen Lebron. I actually asked Tom Kachowski, who rests,
Speaker 1: who was the guru of high school basketball? Who's the
Speaker 1: best players? And he said Kenny Anderson. I said why
Speaker 1: because he said he's six ft one and a hundred
Speaker 1: ten pounds and doing what he does. Lebron was in
Speaker 1: the kareem a different level. So Kenny Anderson step about
Speaker 1: to say, did you see Stefani step step Steff was
Speaker 1: really good in high school? Um, he was right below.
Speaker 1: He was a notch with Low. He was a notch
Speaker 1: low Pearl Washington in high school, he was a match.
Speaker 1: It came too easy for Pearl, Like he was a
Speaker 1: guy who got what's the guy from out here? Man?
Speaker 1: He played with my nephew that got really good early.
Speaker 1: Shake Cotton. He was shake cotton. He was always shake cotton.
Speaker 1: He just but he made it. But he just got
Speaker 1: good too early. You know, I'm not gonna go like
Speaker 1: Bob Couzy and Jim Lenney wild because I didn't see
Speaker 1: none of those guys play back in the day. Kareem
Speaker 1: Read is really good, but he's not top five. Bogus
Speaker 1: not top five. I would say mark to five question
Speaker 1: five even high school because you said talk to talk.
Speaker 1: They were like I always missed Charles and I'm always like, oh, like,
Speaker 1: oh I'm a star. And you know they talked to
Speaker 1: start talk on our show, Charleston. I'm like, first of all,
Speaker 1: did you make mcdonalell american? Chuck hit him with He's like, no,
Speaker 1: I would. By the way, I said, there's two dudes.
Speaker 1: When he was voted top thirty five high school players
Speaker 1: all time, I got a ball McDonald's yeah, it's me
Speaker 1: a shot. We only want to top thirty five high
Speaker 1: school players of ball time. Wait, wait, talk did you
Speaker 1: when you college basketball player the year? Like now when
Speaker 1: you play to you in your conference, like, okay, I'll
Speaker 1: play to you. I said, you just got good late,
Speaker 1: like I was good for eight years eight years run
Speaker 1: when you were still trying to develop your game. You
Speaker 1: got good when you was in your late twenties. Seventeen man,
Speaker 1: But it's to carry that that that long, that long battle. Man.
Speaker 1: So yeah, so that was the top five. Funny, it's
Speaker 1: the NBA Finals and two teams are about to make
Speaker 1: their mark on seventy five years of NBA history. One
Speaker 1: second on the court can define the players legacy. One
Speaker 1: shot can send a city to the top and give
Speaker 1: bragging rights to every fan. One ring is at the
Speaker 1: center of it all, and the stakes have never been
Speaker 1: in hya from game one to seven, from rookie to legend,
Speaker 1: from forty eight minutes to o t If it happens
Speaker 1: to the NBA Finals, it's forever. Visit NBA dot com
Speaker 1: slash Finals to learn more. So, as you mentioned McDonald's
Speaker 1: All American, you end up choosing North Carolina. Who else
Speaker 1: was in the mix for colleges? For college? I was
Speaker 1: Duke and and um at school from Durham, we don't
Speaker 1: say that name, and Virginia. Those are schools I visited.
Speaker 1: But I always wanted to play in the a CEC
Speaker 1: at that time. That was when the conference was to me,
Speaker 1: the a CEC had the best conference. I want to
Speaker 1: play against the best. But I chose North Carolina because
Speaker 1: when I went to the practice and I saw Sam Perkins,
Speaker 1: Brad Daugherty, Michael Jordan's I looked at it and I said,
Speaker 1: I don't know if I could play here. I was
Speaker 1: a little nervous. I had never seen seven footage like
Speaker 1: they had. They had they had Tim McDonald, all Americans
Speaker 1: on the team mate. I was like, damn, I don't
Speaker 1: know if I could play here. I said, I know,
Speaker 1: I could go to Duke and play. I could play
Speaker 1: it Vintinua And I said, I gotta go here because
Speaker 1: I can't. I can't be there thinking that they're better
Speaker 1: than me. And so I wind up going at that time,
Speaker 1: you know, which is now if you don't do I
Speaker 1: was only the fifth freshman that ever start at the university. Like,
Speaker 1: but now, if you don't start as a freshman, people
Speaker 1: like yours. But that was unusual to start as a freshman,
Speaker 1: you know, for for me, So I chose North Carolina
Speaker 1: because of that reason. Uh. And they had everything, like
Speaker 1: all the schools like, oh we got a good academic school,
Speaker 1: good social life. I was a good basketball like they
Speaker 1: had everything. When I was it was like a movie.
Speaker 1: You know, you see those college movies. You see like
Speaker 1: the fraternities and kids walking through campus. It just it
Speaker 1: just felt like a movie. I was like, this isn't real,
Speaker 1: Like I'm coming from New York. It's like there's no campus. St.
Speaker 1: John's doesn't have a campus, like really, Like so I
Speaker 1: was like, they were like, they use the cities your campus.
Speaker 1: I'm like, nah, I'm not. I would have had to
Speaker 1: take the same bus that I took the high school
Speaker 1: to take. I was like, nah, I can't. I'm not
Speaker 1: having a bus pass. Yeah, I mean you're freshman year team,
Speaker 1: to name a few, Michael, Jordan, Brad Doherty, Sam Perkins, yourself,
Speaker 1: I mean, what were those practices? Like you know what
Speaker 1: the crazy part was that now that wasn't a question
Speaker 1: who was the best player. I'm gone, Sam Perkins was
Speaker 1: the best player of my freshman year, like because Sam
Speaker 1: was a four time All American that you know that
Speaker 1: wouldn't happen today any either, Like first team first team
Speaker 1: for Sam was the best player. Michael was the most dynamic,
Speaker 1: but he didn't have a handle. He couldn't handle the
Speaker 1: rock like in college. No, he couldn't handle the rocks.
Speaker 1: So like even even at times I'll be like, you
Speaker 1: played up like I got Mike. You're like because I know,
Speaker 1: I'm like I'm getting up under you like you can't
Speaker 1: hand and what happened? And then and then and he's
Speaker 1: the only guy that I know that his weaknesses that
Speaker 1: he had at the end of his career wasn't stress.
Speaker 1: The only person I've ever Lebron is not like that,
Speaker 1: k D, no, nobody. He's the only one we at.
Speaker 1: Then his handle was crazy and his jump shot was pure.
Speaker 1: I said, how do you miss a jump shot? You
Speaker 1: got a perfect form. But we talked about it and
Speaker 1: I was like, this is not competitive. We talked about
Speaker 1: competitive with Mike. So I used to say. I was like,
Speaker 1: it's like, oh you CAINK you could go U. It's like, yeah,
Speaker 1: because your hand was whack. I used to say, your
Speaker 1: hands whack, I can call you and like, so now
Speaker 1: we're doing that. We play and he goes to the Olympics,
Speaker 1: comes back, goes to um to the league, comes back
Speaker 1: for the summer because all the players, with every North
Speaker 1: Carolina player, Kent came. But we all come back and play.
Speaker 1: So the gym is the doodles, like it's like any
Speaker 1: NBA team. We would have beat like in that gym
Speaker 1: without questions. And he's he's going, I'm like, damn, gang guy.
Speaker 1: He's like, my handle's been working on. But I forgot
Speaker 1: said that. I forgot I said it and he's like,
Speaker 1: my handles, right, he's something about my handle. But he
Speaker 1: was like the stories are true about his competitiveness. Like
Speaker 1: we were we were playing pick up one day. So
Speaker 1: this is when you knew you made I made I
Speaker 1: made it too, because the juniors and seniors, you know,
Speaker 1: even at y'all school, probably picked the team. Yeah yeah,
Speaker 1: right straight out of high school to Mexico, right, so
Speaker 1: they picked I don't ca a lot of this is
Speaker 1: how we're doing. So the pros go on one end
Speaker 1: and they players college players go on the other, and
Speaker 1: then you pick your team. But you could you could
Speaker 1: pick the pros. You could cross over, so Michael went
Speaker 1: or Sam whoever, they would have seen leaders and junior leaders.
Speaker 1: They can pick the team. And the first day, you know,
Speaker 1: you know, as a freshman, you're just sitting because they're
Speaker 1: not picking me. So you get on the courter end.
Speaker 1: So about two weeks later, about a week later, uh,
Speaker 1: Michael's picking and he's like, I got uh, I got
Speaker 1: New York. They used to call me New York. I
Speaker 1: got New York. It's like, oh, shoot, I got picked first.
Speaker 1: He's like, first, it's it's pros. In the gym, I
Speaker 1: was like, oh, it's k I was like, so my
Speaker 1: my confidence was boost So now we're playing right, And
Speaker 1: we went in we went in games, and so every
Speaker 1: time we went you know, you're gonna get water. And
Speaker 1: I'm watching Mike and he's standing in the middle of
Speaker 1: center court. Like I walked up, like, yo, what are
Speaker 1: you doing. He's like, I want the mother because they
Speaker 1: know that I'm never leaving the court. I'm gonna be
Speaker 1: the first to stand here in the last I was like,
Speaker 1: all right, so we bothna what we're doing, how we're
Speaker 1: doing it. I mean, he would like, I mean, he
Speaker 1: was the first dude that I met that could back
Speaker 1: up his trash like every day every day. Always always
Speaker 1: a talker and always backed it up though, like and
Speaker 1: he really took more pride, especially than his defense. He's like,
Speaker 1: Walter Davis, she's not scoring today, you're not scoring the day,
Speaker 1: Walter Davis like he That's the type of energy he
Speaker 1: was on all the time. He and when he when
Speaker 1: he got to the league. So we had dorms, and
Speaker 1: our dorm numbers don't change. So if you had dorm
Speaker 1: number eight, it's the same phone number next year. I'm
Speaker 1: just a different person. So so all of when he
Speaker 1: comes in town, this is before the Instagram, and he
Speaker 1: you hear the phones go one and somebody hang up
Speaker 1: and you just heard going out. So it's him. And
Speaker 1: all he say is schools in session. So everybody coming
Speaker 1: the hallway to be like, Mike's here, Mike's here, right, Mike,
Speaker 1: So he going. He called each room to let her
Speaker 1: know come to the gym. School session, so the gym
Speaker 1: would be pat We got four thousand people watching our
Speaker 1: pickup games. That's crazy, four thousand. It was, It was.
Speaker 1: It was unbelievable that time basketball was different. There was
Speaker 1: no Charlotte Haunets. So like people would and this is
Speaker 1: no social media and people that all whole word of mouth,
Speaker 1: and they would be four it would be four thousand
Speaker 1: people when he came in the gym. I mean obviously
Speaker 1: with his competitiveness and in his desire to get better
Speaker 1: at the young age, did you see him possibly being
Speaker 1: a great I knew he would be great. I never
Speaker 1: thought he'd be the greatest because when I first saw him,
Speaker 1: and then when I saw him when we even in practice,
Speaker 1: like you don't like I guess it's like you have
Speaker 1: a beautiful wife and you like take it for granted,
Speaker 1: because she did. Every day you see, you see it
Speaker 1: every moment. You know, you see every moment you know
Speaker 1: a beautiful person you're around you you see their bad
Speaker 1: side too, you see the days that they're being mood.
Speaker 1: So for him, I saw those moments and I was like,
Speaker 1: but then when he when he left and he came back,
Speaker 1: I saw that the energy that he put into his game,
Speaker 1: like he never stopped working. Man Like, his stuff is
Speaker 1: not an accident. Like it's not like, oh he was gifted. No,
Speaker 1: he was the most fundamentally sound player that ever played
Speaker 1: the game. If you watch the videos, his his left
Speaker 1: hand is in the correct pass in lane. His footwork
Speaker 1: is unrepeppable. The offensively, you know, his job step is
Speaker 1: he's the always ball move feats they still like all
Speaker 1: of those things were all the time. And then he
Speaker 1: was the best athlete. Most guys who were the athletic
Speaker 1: didn't rely on you know, as great as even you
Speaker 1: know and this is not not but as great as
Speaker 1: Claude Drexler was. That was the difference between him and Mike.
Speaker 1: To me, it's just the fundamentals of jab step and
Speaker 1: that's you know, the stuff that Dean Smith learned. But
Speaker 1: and it Mike gets a lot of it for like
Speaker 1: his quotes, but it's just Dean Smith's quote. It's stolen.
Speaker 1: It's just he just adds expletives everything everything that Coach
Speaker 1: Smith said to us. That's what Mike said. I mean,
Speaker 1: you you can pull it. It's every interview. It's plagiarism
Speaker 1: to the finest. I mean speaking to Coach Smith, what
Speaker 1: was it like some of the stories and memories you
Speaker 1: have rest in peace. Obviously one of the greatest to
Speaker 1: ever do it. Dean Smith, he was to me, it
Speaker 1: was like planning for Gandhi mm hmm, like you know
Speaker 1: what I mean. He was. It was a real about
Speaker 1: his inner person who he was. My favorite story is
Speaker 1: not even with me, it's uh, it's with Mac and
Speaker 1: Ji who played at North Carolina. He was from Africa,
Speaker 1: played that Michigan transferred in and the ok Yeah, he
Speaker 1: went to Okill. So Mike Mac was, you know, having
Speaker 1: a tough time in practice. So Roy Williams was assistant
Speaker 1: coach at the time, and he's in Bill Guthridge and
Speaker 1: so they're getting on Mac, like Mac, what's wrong with you?
Speaker 1: Blah blah blah. Coach Smith's never cussed ever. Excuse me,
Speaker 1: ever ever ever, never cussed. So they're getting on him
Speaker 1: and so they throw him out of practice. Right, so
Speaker 1: coach Smith have the practice, goes to him, says, Mac,
Speaker 1: is everything all right? Like homesick like, and he's like,
Speaker 1: no coach, and he's not. He's not looking at him.
Speaker 1: He's like, he's like, Matt, look at me when I'm
Speaker 1: talking to you. He's like, no, coach, I'm just not
Speaker 1: feeling Matt, look at me as I talked to you.
Speaker 1: He said. Coaching my culture, to look uh an adult
Speaker 1: in the eye is its sign of disrespect. So Coachman says, okay,
Speaker 1: walks out. So next day in practice, there's no coach
Speaker 1: Guthridge who threw him out of practice. Coach Gus is
Speaker 1: not there for a week. So Max said he gets
Speaker 1: a call because from his mom. She's like, Matt, this
Speaker 1: is man here in Africa, says he's your coach assistant. Coach.
Speaker 1: I know Coach Smith, I don't know him well. He's
Speaker 1: been here for a week, saying he's learning our culture.
Speaker 1: He sent coach Guthridge to learn his culture so he
Speaker 1: could never make that mistake again. That is what coach
Speaker 1: Smith is Yes, that's that's the best store I heard of. Gentlemen.
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Speaker 1: gave you six picked to the Kings seven draft use
Speaker 1: classes included Scottie Pippen, Dave Robinson, Redgi Miller, Reggie Lewis,
Speaker 1: mug Mark Jackson, Kevin Johnson, hars Grant. Do you think
Speaker 1: your classes underrated? We would be the top class now
Speaker 1: the way the game is played today. I don't think
Speaker 1: we're underrated for that time, but for this time, Like
Speaker 1: Reggie Miller would be picked second draft, Reggie Lewis would
Speaker 1: be picked third. I would be took one because I
Speaker 1: was the best in college out of all of them
Speaker 1: dudes in college. You know what I'm saying. Scottie Pippen
Speaker 1: would be four, you know they were, they were option.
Speaker 1: Probably would still be one. He might be one, Yeah,
Speaker 1: he still would be one because it would be a
Speaker 1: unique big because he probably he probably would have stretched hand.
Speaker 1: But game hardst Grant. You see what I'm saying. This
Speaker 1: is we we were that era, this era. We were
Speaker 1: just born in the wrong era. Like but that was
Speaker 1: like a prototypical like two thousand two draft. You'd be
Speaker 1: like you had a hell of a draft with them dudes,
Speaker 1: because Reggie was shooting threes when there was no three
Speaker 1: point lie like you know, it was bananas like he
Speaker 1: he and Reggie Lewis, those guys were and and then
Speaker 1: m Reggie Lewis and Reggie from Georgetown, Um Williams. Reggie
Speaker 1: Williams was a six seven great three that would in
Speaker 1: this today's game would be prototypical guy. Talk about the
Speaker 1: state of the league at that time, We talked about
Speaker 1: John Sally and said it was a really drug infestive
Speaker 1: league around the time, and it was an image problem
Speaker 1: around the time. Sea came in right on the cleanup. See,
Speaker 1: I was like John is like two years older maybe
Speaker 1: so he caught the last tale of it. When I
Speaker 1: was in, it was like we wasn't doing what dudes
Speaker 1: are doing the day, Like nah, up and smoke woudn't
Speaker 1: exist broh, Like yeah, all the smoke, all the smoke
Speaker 1: wouldn't exists. Like and we were like they were like,
Speaker 1: guys were cheap too, so our ever would you were
Speaker 1: first starting to make a million dollars, two million dollars,
Speaker 1: They weren't blowing ten thousand dollars in the nightclub on liquor.
Speaker 1: There wasn't. He was playing with Burning Maxwell. Now come on,
Speaker 1: don't don't but I'm gonna tell you about Verne was
Speaker 1: buying drinks. He wasn't buying bottles drinks. He wasn't. There
Speaker 1: was no sparkless from him, There was no there was
Speaker 1: no sparkless. There was no spark Vernon by ten shots.
Speaker 1: He ain't really not buying the bottom, So no sparklers. No,
Speaker 1: it was so we wanted to clean up. So guys
Speaker 1: more than anything, they would you know, they would drink.
Speaker 1: I said, you know, you would see. I thought it
Speaker 1: was more like a drinking issue in the league where um,
Speaker 1: but now you know it's yeah, well I didn't catch
Speaker 1: the like the that whole coka. I grew up in
Speaker 1: that growing up in New York City, Like you know,
Speaker 1: you grew up in the crack. I grew up in
Speaker 1: the crack erea. So it was like poverty and a
Speaker 1: lot of money. You're just like it was like it
Speaker 1: was between. It was noring between. I used to see
Speaker 1: guys like literally overnight have pockets and like no like
Speaker 1: duffel bags full of money. One of my one of
Speaker 1: my boys, you know, the name Nameless, he's in there.
Speaker 1: He's in that game. But he was a great basketball
Speaker 1: high school player, so you know, you know him because
Speaker 1: he plays, but he was like a smooth hustler, so
Speaker 1: he didn't know he was really doing it. He has,
Speaker 1: you know, he has a beautiful house, family, He throws
Speaker 1: nice parties, no drugs scene. So he pulls me in
Speaker 1: his garage one day and he's like Ken. I'm like, oh,
Speaker 1: this's a nice car. Show him his cards and he's like,
Speaker 1: you're my guy, so I gotta ask you if you
Speaker 1: want to do this. So he opens you know that
Speaker 1: you know the trash cans that you put out. He
Speaker 1: opens two of them up and then fill with cash.
Speaker 1: He's like, it's three hundred thousand in this one. It's
Speaker 1: like four hundred in there. Just by way, I could
Speaker 1: tell if you give me two hundred fifty cash to
Speaker 1: and write a check for two fifty, you could take
Speaker 1: the bound because you could go into cashes. I can't
Speaker 1: try to clean that money. I'm like where I'm from.
Speaker 1: He's like, no, I just had to ask you though,
Speaker 1: because I don't want to hear somebody here that you
Speaker 1: didn't get a chance at this money and you're my guy.
Speaker 1: I'm like, no, I don't get that, Like I don't
Speaker 1: get that, Like I'm good. I was like, yeah, so
Speaker 1: it's like like that was a hard note because you
Speaker 1: see the it's like it's like six hundred thousand ills
Speaker 1: in cash, like sitting there and like just give me
Speaker 1: two fifty right a check and I'm good. No, I'm good. Yeah,
Speaker 1: money probably when it did it. But see, you gotta
Speaker 1: think that money got all kind of paring from me
Speaker 1: and all kind of stuff they can get you buy
Speaker 1: the money not even in the washer, and the driver
Speaker 1: ain't gonna do it. Funny because I got the funniest
Speaker 1: story about Stephen Man. Chucky Brown play with us. That
Speaker 1: was my guy. So checking with my guy, right, So
Speaker 1: this is right when you're right when you went and
Speaker 1: went in the stands. So I didn't know you were
Speaker 1: you know, I just you know, we didn't. You talked
Speaker 1: a couple of times and from being in Houston, being
Speaker 1: in Houston, yea, and so um, I'm like I called Chucky.
Speaker 1: I'm like, yeah, what kind of dude is Steven Man?
Speaker 1: He jumped in the stands. He's like, Kenny Man, Yo,
Speaker 1: you love him? You love Jack. I love him. He's
Speaker 1: like he's like, cause Max was my guy. So me
Speaker 1: and Max were late to the all like my kids,
Speaker 1: his kids called me uncle Kenny. I always had like
Speaker 1: like a relationship with guys like that for some reason,
Speaker 1: and when I'm not really like that, you know, but
Speaker 1: I always gravitated. It was a balance. He's like you
Speaker 1: love jack Like wow, he's like he's a soldier. He's
Speaker 1: like Jackson soldier, but he's the soul just hoping for war,
Speaker 1: looking like he's hoping for I was like, I get it.
Speaker 1: I had never heard anybody described. From that point on,
Speaker 1: I understood him like he's like, it's like, I got it.
Speaker 1: He wants to smoke, Yeah, there is. He's like he's
Speaker 1: looking for it. A great dude man from him too. Yes, yes,
Speaker 1: it died. That was my first. So then I understood
Speaker 1: why he went the stands, and then I understood what
Speaker 1: was going on. I understood his whole mentality. I think
Speaker 1: I don't remember that I called you, and I remember
Speaker 1: because when we were going he was we were talking
Speaker 1: about on T and T. So I was just like, yeah,
Speaker 1: I was telling you know, the Chucky story. I think
Speaker 1: I even said, I just you know, we had talked before,
Speaker 1: and I was I just don't like to go on
Speaker 1: TV something that's sensitive issue without talking to the first
Speaker 1: you know, like, I'm not gonna the only one did that,
Speaker 1: though really you're the only one did that. I just
Speaker 1: don't like basketball. I ain't gonna call him like, Yo,
Speaker 1: you ain't get back on deep bro, knock it off,
Speaker 1: like here's the film like stuff. I'm just checking. And
Speaker 1: he was telling me, like, Kenny Man, you know I'm
Speaker 1: not really like that, I said, Jack, I do believe that.
Speaker 1: I said, but this's your second incident, not even a year. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm like it's the second one. And I said, you're
Speaker 1: a good guy, but if you keep doing bad things,
Speaker 1: you're really a bad guy who want to be good.
Speaker 1: So you got to realize who you are. Like even
Speaker 1: we all like everybody who's good ain't all good. You know,
Speaker 1: everybody bad we we know from like everybody who bad
Speaker 1: ain't all bad, like you know what I mean, Like
Speaker 1: they just not all bad. And everybody who good ain't
Speaker 1: really all good. So but if you continually do bad
Speaker 1: ship that's all say you're a bad person. You are bad,
Speaker 1: like you got you gotta on it. And so I
Speaker 1: was like and then I even when he was doing that,
Speaker 1: like I told when he would be time said, yo,
Speaker 1: you were media dude, like we had we want to
Speaker 1: play like and I was like, ooh, you could do
Speaker 1: this media thing man, like you were on our show. Yo,
Speaker 1: you're really good. Like I think he thought I was
Speaker 1: blowing smoke and I'm like, no, bro, you're really good. Dudes,
Speaker 1: come on, they don't get it like you get it
Speaker 1: like you can here we are. But I didn't think
Speaker 1: he was born smoke because I can go back on
Speaker 1: my Instagram and showed you when I got off the plane,
Speaker 1: I made a post and I sat next to you
Speaker 1: and what you were saying, Oh yeah, yes, I made post.
Speaker 1: I meant it. I meant it ninety He were traded
Speaker 1: to Atlanta in the same year traded to Houston. First
Speaker 1: thoughts of playing with a key. It was the first
Speaker 1: time in my life. I went to find the rec
Speaker 1: center and it was the first time in my life
Speaker 1: I was playing. So were playing pick up and we're
Speaker 1: on the same team, and I threw the ball inside
Speaker 1: and the guy goted me left. That had never happened
Speaker 1: to me. It was the first time. I was like,
Speaker 1: they leave you playing with him? That that never happened
Speaker 1: to me. Yeah. I played in Sacramento my first two years.
Speaker 1: Like I led the league. I was second in the
Speaker 1: league in minutes the Carolina Blue Jersey something. Yeah, man,
Speaker 1: I mean second minutes on a bad team. I'm playing forty.
Speaker 1: I played forty five minutes at night my second year
Speaker 1: in the league. I only came out the game three minutes,
Speaker 1: which is another story because I was Jerry Reynolds was coaching. First,
Speaker 1: it was Bill Russell, then Jerry Reynolds, and Jerry's like,
Speaker 1: what's you know? You get all upset at me when
Speaker 1: I take you out. I'm like, yeah, Jerry, you just
Speaker 1: take me out the wrong three minutes. It's like you
Speaker 1: don't know what you're doing. But it's the first time
Speaker 1: I threw it in and they left me. I was like, oh,
Speaker 1: it's gonna be different. So then I was like, I
Speaker 1: need to learn. I didn't shoot my first two years
Speaker 1: in the league. I took eighty three two in three years.
Speaker 1: And I said, I gotta learn how to shoot the
Speaker 1: three because I didn't know how to shoot the three,
Speaker 1: and so I called. I was at a charity game
Speaker 1: and dell Ellis was there and I said, Dawn, that's
Speaker 1: one of the ones. I said, you shoot the three
Speaker 1: real easy. How do you do it? And he showed
Speaker 1: me how. He's like, no, you get your feet set,
Speaker 1: like this is how you get your balance, I said,
Speaker 1: because this is far. Like for me, I was like,
Speaker 1: it's just feel far. It's like no, no, none needs
Speaker 1: balance and you get your legs and I practiced it.
Speaker 1: So I was like, and I in my first twenty games,
Speaker 1: I took eighty threes just based on playing with him,
Speaker 1: throwing it in and they leave you and double and
Speaker 1: then you know, still at that point, I was still
Speaker 1: the jet. Now I'm a proper playing but I was
Speaker 1: still so like it was. It was if you ran
Speaker 1: at me, I could go buy you, I could go
Speaker 1: by you, and so, you know, and then me and
Speaker 1: Vernon together like Vernon was fast as hell. Verning was
Speaker 1: for those who don't know, Vernon was Dwayne Wade before
Speaker 1: Dwayne Wade. But he just didn't have the mental stability.
Speaker 1: But if he had Dwayne Waste mental stability, he would
Speaker 1: have been the way that's it. He just didn't have
Speaker 1: it like burning. You know, I was a psychiatrist in
Speaker 1: the sense that you know, because everybody knew that we
Speaker 1: were close and I loved him to death, and so
Speaker 1: Rudy would be like Canny go get him. Rudy t
Speaker 1: I canny, go get Vernon, Oh, go get Verdict. And
Speaker 1: I was like, yo, listen, we had a Vernon story
Speaker 1: with this when we was with the We Believe Warriors.
Speaker 1: We went in was it to Houston. Remember he's in
Speaker 1: there getting a full worker. Come on, Nellie, I still
Speaker 1: got it. We were walking and we walked, you walked
Speaker 1: by burning down. You think he's twenty three. You know.
Speaker 1: We were walking in the gym getting ready for practice,
Speaker 1: and Max had had a whole hour workout, sweating show.
Speaker 1: And then Don Nelson he still had he wanted attend
Speaker 1: a for our Warrior team at that time, was crazy dog.
Speaker 1: He's probably like the second best athlete Michael and him
Speaker 1: as present and Eago Dollar like just pure pure athlete,
Speaker 1: like like I had never seen something like him, like Vernon.
Speaker 1: And and plus he had he had my back too far,
Speaker 1: like too far, like he just have your back so
Speaker 1: far that it's almost scary. It's almost scary, like like
Speaker 1: the type of love. He's the first guy to go
Speaker 1: on the stands. Yeah, I was just about to say
Speaker 1: I didn't I didn't want to say it, but I
Speaker 1: was about the first guy in Dallas no, this is
Speaker 1: in Portland, Portland's first time, so we can drove. We
Speaker 1: think this is not that we win the championships were
Speaker 1: getting drove. We went losing by twenty So Vernon He's
Speaker 1: going to entertain anything that can be entertained. So the
Speaker 1: guy is screaming at the top of his lungs. You know, oh,
Speaker 1: you guys are no chaps. He sucked, blah blah blah blah.
Speaker 1: He's not gonna be So Brennan's like, he's sitting right
Speaker 1: here in the time now, I'm literally here goes. You
Speaker 1: keep talking that ship, I'm gonna come up there and
Speaker 1: smack the hell out you. You're not gonna do anything.
Speaker 1: Maxwell get sucked and it was you know how you
Speaker 1: have that flight of flight moment where you just you
Speaker 1: just I froze because I'm watching him instead of tackling him.
Speaker 1: I'm watching him and I'm and I'm it's like a movie,
Speaker 1: and I'm like, is he really going up there? He's
Speaker 1: going up there back out of him, And I was like,
Speaker 1: oh my god, I could have prevented the whole thing.
Speaker 1: So to this day, I still want to pay the
Speaker 1: fine for because I was like, I could have stopped it,
Speaker 1: because that was always my job is to stop him
Speaker 1: because I was the only one who could like bring
Speaker 1: him back. But if he if he's doing this, you're
Speaker 1: gonna he'd be real quiet and you'd be like, that's
Speaker 1: not mad, Max. But when that light switch turned on,
Speaker 1: oh my god, it was only like two people in
Speaker 1: the world I could turn it off, and I just
Speaker 1: happened to be one of them. And I could like
Speaker 1: say two things, three things, and he'd come back and
Speaker 1: he'd be like, Okay, he say, like you like that.
Speaker 1: People tell me you like that. You gotta switch manwitch,
Speaker 1: like right now, about five different switches got switch. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and do you have who's the guy who can stop
Speaker 1: your switch? Probably him? Yeah, and then yeah, not there's
Speaker 1: a couple of people that can't. But yeah, you go.
Speaker 1: But you're my manner, like yeah, like and then that's
Speaker 1: my thing because I mean, I think it's a lot
Speaker 1: of people. My whole thing is like I don't even
Speaker 1: go looking for it. Just the disrespect thing. I don't
Speaker 1: do very well to the disrespect happen. Yeah, I don't
Speaker 1: like that. And that's what that was. Yeah, it was disrespect. Disrespect.
Speaker 1: He always thought disrespect was like not acknowledging who he was,
Speaker 1: like looking through him. So if you look through him
Speaker 1: in any manner, it's an issue. He had an issue
Speaker 1: with you. We need we need man Max on here
Speaker 1: yea yeah issue. Yeah, Like he would fight every every
Speaker 1: game we played the Bulls. He fight Michael every single game.
Speaker 1: And so that's what I used to do when I
Speaker 1: can't stop somebody. He's just height. He started every every
Speaker 1: single game, He's gonna start to fight with Michael. But
Speaker 1: the crazy part is Michael was like, Yo, this dude
Speaker 1: is he's crazy. I'm like, why you said that? He's like,
Speaker 1: he brought his son in here after the game. We
Speaker 1: have a fight Kenny and all Jordan's and Jordan's gear
Speaker 1: to get autographs. But I just thought, this dude, that's all.
Speaker 1: But that's what that was back because Mike would look
Speaker 1: through him. You know, Mike is not He's like Mike
Speaker 1: stay stuff like, yo, you see who's on me packs
Speaker 1: and throw me. Oh you can't make comments like that.
Speaker 1: You see who's that's looking through Like, yeah, you might
Speaker 1: hit the jump up, but I'm a whip your ass,
Speaker 1: whip yours. I've seen you do it. I've seen like
Speaker 1: I didn't know that about you until late in your career.
Speaker 1: Even watching you him, I knew because of Texas. But
Speaker 1: I've seen Vernon like physically intimidate guys. I think that's
Speaker 1: the first person who cursed me out when I think
Speaker 1: I was a rookie preseason. He cursed me out so bad.
Speaker 1: I'm like they talked to people like this, and like
Speaker 1: we was on the street, he talked to me so bad,
Speaker 1: and that's when I fell in love with him. He
Speaker 1: would if you if you weren't from that element, you
Speaker 1: would take it so personally. Either you're gonna fight or
Speaker 1: you would be intimidated. But if you're from the element,
Speaker 1: you just know a lot of its talk once you
Speaker 1: off the court is dead. Is this talk? It's not
Speaker 1: like going there. But he's so close on the edge.
Speaker 1: Five back to back championships. What was it like to
Speaker 1: get that first taste? You google it right now, it's
Speaker 1: clut City. Clut City. We made it where a city
Speaker 1: that was known for choking and not doing well to
Speaker 1: a city that was could do well under pressure. And
Speaker 1: you know what, the crazy thing a championship. We were
Speaker 1: the first championship franchise sports franchise ever in Houston, the
Speaker 1: Astros had one football team, Oilers Oilers now Texas. Nobody
Speaker 1: had one ever until we won, and I noticed a
Speaker 1: change in the city, big change. I didn't that it
Speaker 1: would do that, like I always thought that it would
Speaker 1: have changed me in us. But I saw them the
Speaker 1: way people moved in the city and while and with
Speaker 1: the way they thought. So it was just it was
Speaker 1: a great feeling to go back to back, but I
Speaker 1: think the second one felt better because we came from
Speaker 1: the sixth seed. We never had home court advantage, so
Speaker 1: we started every on the series on the road, two
Speaker 1: games on the road the first two games and we
Speaker 1: get off. So I had a thing where dream and
Speaker 1: it was like you wanna say it, I'm like, oh,
Speaker 1: so we come up the team playing and I'm like,
Speaker 1: and we're being another person city like we're home. So
Speaker 1: I had to say we're home because we weren't home.
Speaker 1: We never started like we win a series and we're
Speaker 1: gone straight to days we can win in Houston, be like, damn,
Speaker 1: after the game, you gotta fly out this game seven,
Speaker 1: You're flying out right after. So it was that second
Speaker 1: championship was the best within the with all due respect
Speaker 1: within the context of your championships and kind of that era.
Speaker 1: That was a two year period that Mike had took off.
Speaker 1: How do you feel like you guys would have fared
Speaker 1: your two championships off. He went to go play, he
Speaker 1: was playing for. He came back as number forty five
Speaker 1: in the second one. He came back as number forty five,
Speaker 1: and we had fifty five in the garden. Nobody was
Speaker 1: saying he was selling he was. He wasn't. Mike. You know,
Speaker 1: we would have beat their ass because like drain was
Speaker 1: too much around. I don't think about this. There's a
Speaker 1: couple of things. Michael is still the best player in
Speaker 1: the world and I've ever seen, but that means he
Speaker 1: would have had to win eight championships in the room.
Speaker 1: It's not gonna win eight in a room. He's not.
Speaker 1: Nobody's done it in the modern era, he wouldn't have
Speaker 1: done that. Secondly, there was no horrors Grant he left.
Speaker 1: And then then they became way too small because even
Speaker 1: in that his regular season, in the regular season years
Speaker 1: we went seven and one against them, was six and two.
Speaker 1: They never beat us in the regular season. We need
Speaker 1: to go to Chicago's smack up, come back to Houston
Speaker 1: smack him up. You know, they like b J and
Speaker 1: you know and and im pacts and those guys were
Speaker 1: good players, but they were too slow for us. And
Speaker 1: no one in Winnington and them couldn't guard him. And
Speaker 1: and for some reason Scotty wasn't Scotty then he wasn't
Speaker 1: a scorer you need they needed. So I think we
Speaker 1: would have got him because of that. There was no Rodman.
Speaker 1: Now when they got robbing, I'm like different, I don't know.
Speaker 1: If the Rockets, we would have got them. But they
Speaker 1: were too little. And that that's why shocking them got
Speaker 1: him because he came back. It wasn't he was coming
Speaker 1: back from baseball. They were too little to shock. They
Speaker 1: lost to a team for two that we swept. We
Speaker 1: swept shocking them. So like, no, no, no, they would
Speaker 1: not have beaten us. And then if you if I
Speaker 1: didn't come in there and I'm not splashing with three,
Speaker 1: Sam could sell is coming in there giving you twenty
Speaker 1: Roy was the new Scottie pitman. Then he wasn't like
Speaker 1: stand outside and he was oldest was in the first one. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And then Clyde like, no, they wouldn't have beat us.
Speaker 1: They would not beat us because they were just too little,
Speaker 1: and they wouldn't have won eight in a row. Something
Speaker 1: would happen, somebody would have left because of contract, somebody
Speaker 1: would have got hurt, something, They wouldn't have beat us.
Speaker 1: He made a great point right there. Back in the day,
Speaker 1: you didn't worry about being injured in the playoffs as
Speaker 1: much as they do. Now. You know, normally you had
Speaker 1: your guns when you was going into the big game.
Speaker 1: Now it you know, championships have been one because key
Speaker 1: players have been missing. What do you think the difference
Speaker 1: is and why? I think the lack of playing. I
Speaker 1: think there is load management, but the lack of not
Speaker 1: playing in a game I think increases your ability to
Speaker 1: get hurt. Play Less minutes would help. If you don't.
Speaker 1: If you don't, if you don't ride like I don't know,
Speaker 1: on your days off, it made you feel better or worse.
Speaker 1: For me, it may me feel work. I did something
Speaker 1: I had to do even and I think that these
Speaker 1: guys now are not taking the pounding. So then when
Speaker 1: they pound in the playoffs, because you go from playing
Speaker 1: every other day taking days off, to all of a sudden,
Speaker 1: oh man, I got played thirty nine forty six minutes
Speaker 1: and they're not used to the pounding. And I used
Speaker 1: to you're around thirty after the back to back championships
Speaker 1: and injuries, started to say in what's going through your mind? Well?
Speaker 1: I always for me, I always had to deal Yeah,
Speaker 1: you see the way I walk, I had to always
Speaker 1: had to deal with something like knee issues. Like so
Speaker 1: I used to wake up in the morning be like,
Speaker 1: um my bus is ass today you can tell right
Speaker 1: away yeah yeah, yeah or not today. What do you
Speaker 1: feel when you do that? Now, I'm like, they're gonna
Speaker 1: get I'm gonna get my ass Bunton every day, every day,
Speaker 1: good day, I'm gonna lose. I raised to the board.
Speaker 1: I gotta figure out a trick to get to the
Speaker 1: board fast on Today I got him, you know, but
Speaker 1: I think, um, you know, for me, you know, especially
Speaker 1: being good early and so long, like having to carry
Speaker 1: that shoulder and from high school to college, playing four
Speaker 1: years in college. You know that took a toll on
Speaker 1: a hundred sixty five pound dude. You know, so by
Speaker 1: time I was like seven, when you're supposed to be
Speaker 1: hitting your superpowers, mine, like when that's starting to fade,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean? Where like that I gave
Speaker 1: a lot of those eight good years early. But you know,
Speaker 1: but you have the experience, like experience you can never
Speaker 1: that you can't and people always say, well, I was experienced.
Speaker 1: I'm like, experience just reduces anxiety. If you don't have anxiety,
Speaker 1: you don't have anxiety gonna perform, like because I have
Speaker 1: the experience to know that I've done this and been
Speaker 1: in this position, so I don't have the anxiety to
Speaker 1: not knowing what's going on. So then I'm I feel comfortable.
Speaker 1: I feel I could see things that you can't see.
Speaker 1: You know, you can see things you can't see. So
Speaker 1: you transition um into media and you're able to join
Speaker 1: T and T. Did you have any idea what you're
Speaker 1: getting yourself into? Somewhat? I never wanted to be in media,
Speaker 1: but I just enjoyed it, Uh, because I love the game.
Speaker 1: I mean, if you come to my house tonight, it's
Speaker 1: gonna be five of us sitting around. We're gonna be
Speaker 1: talking about the games, talking about whatever it is. That's
Speaker 1: what we did. So my brother always says, you know,
Speaker 1: he should get paid half my T and T contract
Speaker 1: because I use his stuff. You know. My my cousin
Speaker 1: says that we all do we we do group chats,
Speaker 1: and like that's all we that's what we do. So
Speaker 1: but I didn't notice like that most people couldn't in
Speaker 1: thirty seconds explain that's important what was going on, and
Speaker 1: not only explain it, but explain it to you guys
Speaker 1: who are at the highest level and also where my
Speaker 1: grandmother could understand. I was like, oh, they can't do that.
Speaker 1: I just had that knack, And I think, you know,
Speaker 1: if we're gonna talk to talk, I think what makes
Speaker 1: me the best in the businesses. I see the periphiel
Speaker 1: like I don't see like when I walked in here,
Speaker 1: I could see the environment that's created, and I could
Speaker 1: feel the energy of what part of each team that
Speaker 1: you pull from just based off of like a five
Speaker 1: minute walk through it. I don't know. That's just a
Speaker 1: gift that God has given me, and and it's just
Speaker 1: in life, like I could see that in life. But
Speaker 1: I can see him like, oh, that person is important
Speaker 1: to this process. I'm like, oh, my my man, hair
Speaker 1: said like two commons. He jumped in. He's the only
Speaker 1: one who's jumped in, and neither one of y'all said anything.
Speaker 1: He's important to the process. When he was he like,
Speaker 1: y'all allowed him to speak. Yeah, I just but those
Speaker 1: are things I know. So when i'm when those are
Speaker 1: things I bring to the show, I'm like, no, no, no, no.
Speaker 1: You know when this guy like it was a player
Speaker 1: that had an unbelievable game and great player, and I
Speaker 1: was like, I'm not sure if his teammates like him.
Speaker 1: M hmm, Like what do you mean? I was like,
Speaker 1: because I could tell body reactions on the bench which
Speaker 1: authentic and what wasn't. Like if I had fifty, everybody
Speaker 1: on the team would be going like one of my teammates,
Speaker 1: I would know. I'm like, but the guy ain't really
Speaker 1: feeling getting fifty. I'm like, yo, yo, I'm not. It's
Speaker 1: a different energy. Those are the things that I noticed,
Speaker 1: And I'm like, that's why they're gonna win or that's
Speaker 1: why they won't. And I think you know where it shocking, Charles.
Speaker 1: They come from. The I always say, Charles is um,
Speaker 1: he's a flashlight. And I know y'all have had some beef. Everybody.
Speaker 1: Everybody has some beef. You could never have beef for
Speaker 1: Charles in this way, obviously, because he looks at life
Speaker 1: through a flashlight and not a floodlight. So if he says,
Speaker 1: if you look at life through a flashlight, he's like, man,
Speaker 1: everybody in here got on Jordan's. No, I got on Jordan's.
Speaker 1: He's got the flashlight. He's correct in it, but he
Speaker 1: but when you put the floodlight on it to everybody else. So,
Speaker 1: but sometimes the flashlight is super accurate because he's pointing
Speaker 1: it directly at you. But sometimes he misses things. My
Speaker 1: job was always to bring the floodlight to the situation
Speaker 1: and go, Nah, you're right, But it's not that only
Speaker 1: you know. So he has an accuracy point to it
Speaker 1: that will rub you the wrong way, because or you
Speaker 1: would over love. I think he gets too much credit
Speaker 1: sometimes and then that sometimes I think he gets too
Speaker 1: much the other way. But he's accurate all the time.
Speaker 1: But it's a flashlight, you know. Well. I mean I
Speaker 1: think that leads us into our next question, what makes
Speaker 1: you guys such a great team? Obviously, so many different
Speaker 1: insights and perspectives and points of views with Ernie and
Speaker 1: Shock and and and Chuck, But what do you think
Speaker 1: makes you guys? Were the only show on television that listens,
Speaker 1: that listens, the only show Yeah, everybody else has their
Speaker 1: written notes and they're gonna, like I write sit down,
Speaker 1: like I'm gonna write stuff down. I might. I'm saying
Speaker 1: I'm gonna get this point out. But if Jack says
Speaker 1: something that makes me go another direction, not even on
Speaker 1: that point, I'm gonna stay with that because that's where
Speaker 1: the topic is. So we're listening instead of like, I
Speaker 1: gotta get this out about Kyrie tonight. A lot of
Speaker 1: people listen to respond instead of listening to understand. Yeah,
Speaker 1: like they are. You know, it's like you've been in
Speaker 1: an argument before when the person has already got their prerecord.
Speaker 1: They you you're telling them, no, I really was there
Speaker 1: at six o'clock, and they're like they're waiting to get
Speaker 1: their point back. Got Now I'm listening like, oh, you
Speaker 1: wasn't at six. Tell me how you were there six, Like,
Speaker 1: explain it? And well that's the only thing that separates us.
Speaker 1: Went that to me. And that's a hard job to listen,
Speaker 1: Like you can't just say okay today, I'm gonna start listening.
Speaker 1: They just put three guys, four guys together that listen.
Speaker 1: We always in it. And Shock didn't listen at first,
Speaker 1: and and until he realized we were listening it and
Speaker 1: I told Shaq he was terrible. Honestly, is first six
Speaker 1: months on the show, you got into some little piece.
Speaker 1: So what was it? We guys went behind the scenes
Speaker 1: of inside. It was terrible. And the two things happened
Speaker 1: that made him great. You know, I don't know. You know.
Speaker 1: I went to him first and I was like, bro,
Speaker 1: the stories you say in the green room bananas, like
Speaker 1: the stuff you're saying about Kobe, and like you gotta
Speaker 1: bring that to the He's like, no, they don't. I
Speaker 1: was like, Shock, that's one I said. The first other
Speaker 1: thing is like this the first time in your life.
Speaker 1: You ain't the most dominant player first time, Like we
Speaker 1: might be better than you at this, so just be
Speaker 1: you and blah blah blah. And then the second thing happened,
Speaker 1: so so Shock used to come in and be shocked.
Speaker 1: If y'all know what was shock, Shock is a movie Shocks.
Speaker 1: I'm walking on. He's got ten people coming in. He
Speaker 1: created a hookah lounge and in the no in the studio,
Speaker 1: and they made let him do this. They were like,
Speaker 1: he's like, I have to have my hooka. So he
Speaker 1: has a hookah lounge outside they make and they put
Speaker 1: a TV outside the studio. We got a green room, Like, yo, man,
Speaker 1: Chuck in the green room. We've been doing this but
Speaker 1: fifteen years together. This dude's gonna come in. You're gonna
Speaker 1: build a hookah lous like was going on, like what's
Speaker 1: going on? And then he's got entourage, he's got he
Speaker 1: got Jerome and him all they're driving. Everybody's driving, the
Speaker 1: one driving the rolls, one driving the bed leaving the Ferrari.
Speaker 1: It's like it's just a movie and me and Chuck
Speaker 1: is Chuck for sure, and Chuck is very sensitive. He's
Speaker 1: like he doesn't like it. Like I'm like I'm used
Speaker 1: to that in a way, like I'm okay with dudes
Speaker 1: name stuff. But Chuck is not having it. So now
Speaker 1: he's not watching again. He's literally DJ equipment, No kid,
Speaker 1: you not. He's practicing his DJ while the game is
Speaker 1: going on. They let him get away with all that
Speaker 1: because he's shot. So now he comes on the show
Speaker 1: and he's like he says something like yeah, DeAndre Jordan
Speaker 1: needed and DeAndre is not playing tonight. So me and
Speaker 1: Charles like, because we sitting next to each other, he's
Speaker 1: hitting me and I'm hitting up. We're gonna get his
Speaker 1: ass today. So we're just lightened into him. Oh, we're
Speaker 1: just going you don't know that. And so now we're
Speaker 1: saying stuff about the game because we know he didn't watch.
Speaker 1: So then our producer comes downstairs and he's like, what
Speaker 1: the is going on? Y'all giving him a hard time
Speaker 1: like that, you're embarrassing him on our national toy. I'm like, whoa, whoa, whoa?
Speaker 1: Since when don't we make fun of each other when
Speaker 1: you don't know ship? Right? Because Matt Shall don't do
Speaker 1: anybody can get it. And it goes like this, and
Speaker 1: then the producer goes like this, you're right, go get it,
Speaker 1: get him, And from that day on he turned. He's like,
Speaker 1: I gotta be ship. He got on point. Yeah. What
Speaker 1: thoughts on the way the media landscape is kind of
Speaker 1: turning down for an ill using example of Draymond getting
Speaker 1: kicked out and not doing media after the game, but
Speaker 1: going on his podcast and kind of explaining his point
Speaker 1: of view, thoughts on just the way the media is
Speaker 1: and the players are kind of taking it more in
Speaker 1: their own hands. Now, well, you know it's Graham and Twitter.
Speaker 1: You know you you got voices like God, you got
Speaker 1: more followers than people that then we're gonna have viewers,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, And you're in your and
Speaker 1: your sound bite. It's gonna live longer. So I don't
Speaker 1: have a problem with it. I just don't. I just
Speaker 1: feel that the only difference what I feel today's player,
Speaker 1: the sensitivity is what I don't understand, Like you're going
Speaker 1: to put information out for us to hear as players,
Speaker 1: former players and as media, and then when we speak
Speaker 1: about it, you get sensitive. They don't put it out
Speaker 1: like I'm not, Like you can't do a reality show
Speaker 1: and then be like, oh, don't talk about my wife,
Speaker 1: Like are you touring a reality show? What are you
Speaker 1: talking about? Are we seeing her? And you're telling us
Speaker 1: that y'all had a problem today, Like you can't like
Speaker 1: do that. And that's why I think the sense of
Speaker 1: activity part um. I'm always surprised that because they actually
Speaker 1: and in certain guys like I've always loved like that
Speaker 1: I never understood. There's a couple of guys I define
Speaker 1: like and then actually both Kyrie and Kevin, I didn't
Speaker 1: understand them. I don't know them well, but I didn't
Speaker 1: understand them because I always loved them, like when they
Speaker 1: first came. Everybody I knew always talked great about him
Speaker 1: when they first came. The first five six years, they
Speaker 1: were like Kyrie and Kevin. And then it became like
Speaker 1: everyone hates me like you said when y'all talk, and
Speaker 1: I was like, no, no, no, bro, nobody hates you
Speaker 1: like we all love you like and then and then
Speaker 1: the narrative shifts because then people start hating them and
Speaker 1: they got hate on them, and I was like, I've
Speaker 1: never seen that, Like Steph Curry his whole career and
Speaker 1: no one's hating on him. They're never gonna be like, oh,
Speaker 1: we hate Steph Curry. But if he started saying, oh,
Speaker 1: y'all hate eating on me or blah blah blamp, then
Speaker 1: people would start doing it. It's just they changed the
Speaker 1: narrative of their own script that I didn't understand why
Speaker 1: they did it because I wasn't hearing what they were hearing.
Speaker 1: I just me personally, and I'm in the media, I'm
Speaker 1: in the back rooms, I'm with the players, I'm with
Speaker 1: the owners, I'm with it. The most unique position I
Speaker 1: have an owner. I had this happened yesterday. I had
Speaker 1: an owner called me, a general manners called me, a
Speaker 1: player called me, an agent called me, and then au
Speaker 1: coach all in one day. And so I'm I know
Speaker 1: I'm in the most unique position ever. And I had
Speaker 1: never heard that about them, so I always I would
Speaker 1: That's the only question y'all ever have them on it
Speaker 1: is like when did they feel the hate started for them?
Speaker 1: That would be my one question because I never felt like, now,
Speaker 1: of course I'm gonna talking you do something like in
Speaker 1: a basketball sense, because I could pull a film out
Speaker 1: like I pill. You can't front on me like I
Speaker 1: could pull a film and say you didn't do this.
Speaker 1: But you know, I never cared about like even even
Speaker 1: with the vaccine with Kyrie, I never cared about it,
Speaker 1: like because that doesn't affect the game and me and
Speaker 1: I always thought the social issue was different from the
Speaker 1: basketball issue, Like I don't think we could ever tell
Speaker 1: him to do something that was a national pandemic and
Speaker 1: the fear that people had in the misinformation that people
Speaker 1: will get in on both sides, because you know, they
Speaker 1: did tell us when we first was like you take
Speaker 1: the vaccine, you would never catch it, Like they did
Speaker 1: say that that was that was the stuff going out like,
Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying. So it's like, I d
Speaker 1: that's a different issue than when I hear guys trying
Speaker 1: to bleed that in and like, oh he didn't, he
Speaker 1: wasn't there for his teammates, like that ship wasn't the
Speaker 1: That's not the same taking a polio shot. It's not
Speaker 1: the same as playing basketball and not coming to work.
Speaker 1: Like it's two different issues. So I don't know if
Speaker 1: y'all get him on to ask him when did they
Speaker 1: feel the hate started? Yeah, I mean I talked to
Speaker 1: him alive. I just any time you disagree with the masses,
Speaker 1: it's gonna be like that. But at the same time,
Speaker 1: nobody understood the conversation. Him and Kevin Durant had the conversation,
Speaker 1: so it was understood between him and him and his teammate.
Speaker 1: So for people to say he turned his back on
Speaker 1: his teammates, you can't say that and actually know what
Speaker 1: you're talking about, because him and Katie had the conversation.
Speaker 1: But you're not turning your back on your teammate because
Speaker 1: it's not it's a it's a social issue. It's not exactly,
Speaker 1: it's it's two different things. Now, dude, I agree with it.
Speaker 1: I was like, no, I got, I'm backed up and
Speaker 1: I'm boosted, you know what I mean. But that's just
Speaker 1: on the information I got. But I didn't. I didn't
Speaker 1: make that decision based on T and T. You know
Speaker 1: what I'm saying? Like that nothing. So I never understood
Speaker 1: how people put those together. I see in sports world
Speaker 1: like that two different issues, like would you go to
Speaker 1: war or go to play basketball? Like that's two different.
Speaker 1: They don't blend quick hitters coming down the stretch. First
Speaker 1: thing to come to mind, let us know you're all
Speaker 1: time North Carolina starting five, feel Ford at the point.
Speaker 1: Phil I had been showing sixth man because of him.
Speaker 1: Feel Forth at the point, Michael at the two, James
Speaker 1: at the three, James Worthy at the three, Sam Perkins
Speaker 1: at the four, and Brad Daugherty at the five. Brad
Speaker 1: Dodd was better than sheet. I'm just asking at the five,
Speaker 1: not at the four. At the five, amoutter of fact,
Speaker 1: she gets Sam. He does get Sam. He does She
Speaker 1: always t my she story like so, I see she right,
Speaker 1: He's getting all the text right, and we were all
Speaker 1: eating I'm like, she, I just I'm waiting for the moment.
Speaker 1: I'm like, bro you can't take out in this in
Speaker 1: this series, Like how can you not get a technical?
Speaker 1: He's like Kenny, Man, it feels like if I don't
Speaker 1: say nothing, my head's gonna explode. Like, well, we don't
Speaker 1: want to have to explode. Keep talking. Just go ahead, man,
Speaker 1: I want your head to explode. But yeah, he he
Speaker 1: could have been the best powerful ward of Alter. He
Speaker 1: could have been, but he had a little he had
Speaker 1: a little too much Philly in him, like he didn't
Speaker 1: want to do that, and he was a little too unselfish.
Speaker 1: Simon Gratz, he was much if I had like as
Speaker 1: great as Kevin Gone that is. But if I had
Speaker 1: to put my money on one game, one game, not
Speaker 1: the season, the season, I'm going Kevin garn that he Kevin,
Speaker 1: They're gonna get me there and take me over the top. Yeah,
Speaker 1: he's gonna get me and take But if I said
Speaker 1: this game seven, game seven, I'm going with sheet game
Speaker 1: seven for one game, he's gonna get you there. And
Speaker 1: he's because he got more stuff than Captain. He put
Speaker 1: it on the floor. He could shoot the three, he
Speaker 1: could he could block shots, he could defend, he could
Speaker 1: score on He did it all. He just didn't want
Speaker 1: to be the best player. He was okay with being
Speaker 1: part of a great yea exactly. Yeah, he's okay with that.
Speaker 1: And let me let me, let me, let me dispel
Speaker 1: the other thing that's shocking them. We always say others,
Speaker 1: but I don't they do. I hate the word others,
Speaker 1: like you know how they say, oh, this and the others,
Speaker 1: because I hate that term. It's like it irks me
Speaker 1: every time I said, they hear it. I just want
Speaker 1: to scratch the freaking desk because it puts so much
Speaker 1: less value when you put a guy as you put
Speaker 1: Matt Bond is another. Stephen Jackson is the other. Like
Speaker 1: because you're not the star, because star doesn't mean star.
Speaker 1: Like because you take more shots doesn't make you the star.
Speaker 1: Score more like Charles you you best score a rebound up,
Speaker 1: but you couldn't if you had to bring that ball up.
Speaker 1: We would have pressured your ass and you would not
Speaker 1: get the ball up. So you need Kevin Johnson to
Speaker 1: be the best point guard to bring the rock up.
Speaker 1: Like his role is so valuable and so underrated when
Speaker 1: you call him another you know. And that's what I
Speaker 1: had a problem when when um so I was talking
Speaker 1: about KD about routing the bus, and they started saying
Speaker 1: the bust thing. Oh yeah that when you're not a
Speaker 1: bus driver, no no, no time out. If you ride
Speaker 1: on the bus, that means your I'm getting upset. You're
Speaker 1: a damn passenger. A passenger does nothing but wait for
Speaker 1: the rival. That's it. Now. If he would have said
Speaker 1: he's got the captain of the ship, I'm like, oh, okay,
Speaker 1: there's a first mate. M hm. Damn. There's even a
Speaker 1: program director for entertainment. That's important. Isaac got the bar
Speaker 1: to love boat. He was important. Like every part of
Speaker 1: the there's roles that's really important, but they're not similar.
Speaker 1: But when you say somebody's a bus rider at the
Speaker 1: level that k D is, it gives the perception for
Speaker 1: people who not played like us. They get in their
Speaker 1: mind that, oh, it takes one guy to win this ship.
Speaker 1: You bugging. It doesn't take one guy to win and
Speaker 1: actuality shack to be real. In real time, we are
Speaker 1: riding the same bus, nobody driving it. Yeah we got
Speaker 1: a bus driver. Are like like we all were on
Speaker 1: a ship. We're on a ship man. It's like no, like, no,
Speaker 1: no way that that that that that term, those terms
Speaker 1: bothered me even though that because it doesn't bother me
Speaker 1: for us. It bothered me for they don't really know
Speaker 1: that you have to be at to be one of
Speaker 1: the best three seven something in the world. There's only
Speaker 1: there's only five thousand of us that's ever touched the
Speaker 1: floor in the NBA, in the world and the history
Speaker 1: of basketball. You're gonna call me another Like when I
Speaker 1: got there was a dream. When I left, it was
Speaker 1: a reality. You know, when I left, he was just
Speaker 1: a dream. He was a reality. Like I got there
Speaker 1: the year before they didn't make the playoffs and not
Speaker 1: I'm the best player, but I put everybody in the
Speaker 1: right spot, Like I know, now you don't go to
Speaker 1: the two. You don't have to handle the rock like
Speaker 1: boom boom, Like okay, now you're gonna have space in
Speaker 1: Like that makes you a championship team. What y'all been on,
Speaker 1: you'll understand that. Like when when they say that, I'm like,
Speaker 1: you're talking to people who don't understand the game. So
Speaker 1: Top seventy lists, who's the biggest snubs for you? Vince Carter.
Speaker 1: Vince Carter, he held the league down for like eight years,
Speaker 1: like he was the face of not his team. He
Speaker 1: was face of the league for eight years. You know,
Speaker 1: Tracy is probably right behind him, But Tracy was never
Speaker 1: to me the face of the league. Vince was the
Speaker 1: face of the league like David Stern and those guys,
Speaker 1: we need you to go to China, what we need
Speaker 1: you to He just facing the league and you know,
Speaker 1: so I thought he was the biggest snub and underrated
Speaker 1: because it's Johnny come lately. They're looking at events at Atlanta,
Speaker 1: Vnce called, you know, year twenty whatever. No, that ain't
Speaker 1: Vince Carter, like no, first on the scene and scary.
Speaker 1: Those guys didn't want to see events, like when he
Speaker 1: walked in the gym, like they didn't want to see him,
Speaker 1: like at all. Like so to me, that was he
Speaker 1: was the biggest stuff. Tracy was second right in there,
Speaker 1: um right in there. And Bernard King for me, because
Speaker 1: Bernard King was he was there. To me, I didn't
Speaker 1: see a small Larry Bird in them. Dudes didn't want
Speaker 1: to see I was. That's the air I grew up watching.
Speaker 1: They didn't want to see him, They didn't want to
Speaker 1: see James Worthy. Um uh, Larry Bird. They could not
Speaker 1: go him, and they could not go Bernard King five Dinner,
Speaker 1: Guess that or alive? Oh, Mandela, Bill Russell Obama, you're
Speaker 1: a female Seanna Rhymes. I would like to have heard
Speaker 1: here because she she writes stuff that typically isn't from
Speaker 1: our culture supposedly, and I like she's as stover. Yes,
Speaker 1: she's done a lot of different technically like oh, that's
Speaker 1: not your culture? How did you know? How do you
Speaker 1: know that? So? I would like her there? And who else?
Speaker 1: I got one more um my guys from up in
Speaker 1: All the Smoke? Yeah, I appreciate a whole different perspective.
Speaker 1: Keeping it right, keep it right. If you can have
Speaker 1: you know what my rookie year Steve Nash told me
Speaker 1: that he's like, bro, you can play a long time
Speaker 1: in his league. But stop keeping stop worrying about keeping
Speaker 1: it reel, and start keeping it right, keeping it If
Speaker 1: you can have one guest on All the Smoke, who
Speaker 1: would it be? But before you answer, you have to
Speaker 1: help us get your answer on the show. And before
Speaker 1: you answer, we've had three of your your T n
Speaker 1: T showmates on the show. A race, there's only one
Speaker 1: more left? Yeah, who's the who's the one left? Chuck?
Speaker 1: Chuck yea, don't want you don't want. You's gonna say
Speaker 1: the same ship that we you see on TV. He's
Speaker 1: not gonna change his answers. It's not gonna we're not
Speaker 1: trying to change that. I would like to see him
Speaker 1: on your show, but he's not like the first person
Speaker 1: I think of. Yeah, I enjoyed when you guys have
Speaker 1: like non like people. Was part of the basketball culture,
Speaker 1: but not part of basketball because like, like when you
Speaker 1: look at your wall, I can give you an answer. People,
Speaker 1: you only got to you only got one basketball play
Speaker 1: up here. You see what I'm saying, I gotta answer
Speaker 1: for you to think of one who's that you just
Speaker 1: did a movie with him, Adam saying, Adam sanding that
Speaker 1: you love. I'm a huge fan, bro. He is honestly
Speaker 1: the nicest guy I've ever met in my life. He
Speaker 1: and Drew carry from Prices right, the two nicest guy
Speaker 1: men I've ever met, Like, just genuinely nice other than
Speaker 1: the chemolage one. The most honorable guy, call me, call
Speaker 1: me most honorable um. And then Adam is the nicest
Speaker 1: guy him. So there we go. You heard it here. First,
Speaker 1: Kenny said he will get Adam Sandler of course for you.
Speaker 1: You know you look somebody. We look up too, so
Speaker 1: we got some gear from all I thought. I thought
Speaker 1: these were the um uh, you're sneakers. Your sneakers you
Speaker 1: had back in the day. No, no, I wouldn't give
Speaker 1: you them shooting. That's a wrap. Thank you Kenny Smith
Speaker 1: for your time. We know you're busy, man, but we
Speaker 1: appreciate you kissing our Showtime Basketball, YouTube and the Heart
Speaker 1: platform Black Effects. We'll see you all next week Sunday
Speaker 1: nights on Showtime. My mission is your mission. From the
Speaker 1: producers of Star Trek Discovery and Star Trek Picard comes
Speaker 1: The Man Who Fell to Earth. Academy Award nominee you
Speaker 1: would tell Agio for this is the next step. Nothing
Speaker 1: will be the same. Academy Award nominee Naomi Harris, They
Speaker 1: are coming for you. The Man Who Fell to Earth
Speaker 1: series premier streaming April twenty four on Showtime