1 00:00:05,880 --> 00:00:16,640 Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Greece. Brian Coburger. Believe it or not, 2 00:00:17,880 --> 00:00:21,319 Speaker 1: he probably knows that we're talking about him right now, 3 00:00:21,440 --> 00:00:24,799 Speaker 1: and I'll tell you why. It has emerged in the 4 00:00:24,920 --> 00:00:29,560 Speaker 1: last days that Coburger has his own jail cell with 5 00:00:29,680 --> 00:00:36,120 Speaker 1: his own TV including cable, and that he is obsessed 6 00:00:36,400 --> 00:00:42,640 Speaker 1: with watching any and all coverage about guess what, himself. 7 00:00:43,840 --> 00:00:47,800 Speaker 1: That's right right now, Brian Coburger, who was charged in 8 00:00:47,880 --> 00:00:53,960 Speaker 1: the murders of four Idaho college students. It's probably enjoying 9 00:00:54,640 --> 00:00:58,760 Speaker 1: finding out that we're talking about him. It almost makes 10 00:00:58,760 --> 00:01:01,600 Speaker 1: me not want to talk about him. But that said, 11 00:01:01,880 --> 00:01:03,840 Speaker 1: I want to share with you what all we have 12 00:01:04,040 --> 00:01:10,600 Speaker 1: learned about Coburger's life behind bars, including of course, endless 13 00:01:10,600 --> 00:01:15,200 Speaker 1: hours of coverage about himself. We know a lot more, 14 00:01:15,240 --> 00:01:17,040 Speaker 1: but I want to start with that. In joining me 15 00:01:17,120 --> 00:01:21,880 Speaker 1: as high profile lawyer out of Jacksonville, Florida, and former 16 00:01:22,120 --> 00:01:26,880 Speaker 1: FBI agent Dale Carson Dale Facer being with us, what 17 00:01:26,959 --> 00:01:31,880 Speaker 1: do you think about Coe Burger watching endless hours of 18 00:01:32,000 --> 00:01:36,480 Speaker 1: coverage about himself. I'm just stunned that they has access 19 00:01:36,480 --> 00:01:40,800 Speaker 1: free access to the media. Aaron Jacksonville, Florida. The inmates 20 00:01:40,800 --> 00:01:43,160 Speaker 1: in the county jail don't have access to any of 21 00:01:43,160 --> 00:01:47,000 Speaker 1: the information television or newspaper. So that was a restriction 22 00:01:47,000 --> 00:01:49,680 Speaker 1: that was put on in the nineteen eighties, and it 23 00:01:49,720 --> 00:01:53,720 Speaker 1: just seems unusual because it gives him ideas and access 24 00:01:53,800 --> 00:01:57,560 Speaker 1: to great many bits of information which he might later 25 00:01:57,720 --> 00:02:04,400 Speaker 1: use in order to be is innocence, is Gill. I'm 26 00:02:04,440 --> 00:02:06,200 Speaker 1: just thinking about what you said. I want to and 27 00:02:06,240 --> 00:02:09,360 Speaker 1: I'm gonna circle back to everything, all the amenities he 28 00:02:09,440 --> 00:02:15,280 Speaker 1: has behind bars. I've been to the jail. It's it's 29 00:02:15,320 --> 00:02:18,840 Speaker 1: not a big jail, and I understand that they wake 30 00:02:19,000 --> 00:02:22,840 Speaker 1: the inmates up with soft music. They let them have 31 00:02:22,919 --> 00:02:26,960 Speaker 1: pizza night on Friday night. I said that to the twins, Hey, guys, 32 00:02:27,000 --> 00:02:29,480 Speaker 1: you want to have pizza night. They're like, yay, because 33 00:02:29,480 --> 00:02:32,360 Speaker 1: they don't have to eat broccoli again. We eat it 34 00:02:32,400 --> 00:02:37,720 Speaker 1: so much. It has a pet named Broggle. But hey, 35 00:02:37,760 --> 00:02:40,359 Speaker 1: my son is six foot five, so don't knock it 36 00:02:40,440 --> 00:02:42,680 Speaker 1: till you try it. I've done it all I've made. 37 00:02:42,880 --> 00:02:46,040 Speaker 1: I call them Martian muffins when they were little because 38 00:02:46,040 --> 00:02:48,320 Speaker 1: I made it with broccoli and they were green. We 39 00:02:48,400 --> 00:02:51,480 Speaker 1: have broccoli roasted, we have it stir fried. We had 40 00:02:51,480 --> 00:02:55,520 Speaker 1: at stir fried last night. With golden raisins and cranberries, 41 00:02:56,000 --> 00:02:58,800 Speaker 1: which my son John David picked around all the raisins 42 00:02:58,800 --> 00:03:02,360 Speaker 1: and cranberries. I don't know how he's six five? But wait, 43 00:03:02,400 --> 00:03:04,880 Speaker 1: how did I get off on Rockolay? Oh yeah, pizza night? 44 00:03:05,360 --> 00:03:09,200 Speaker 1: How dare they give this guy pizza night? But soft music? 45 00:03:09,240 --> 00:03:13,920 Speaker 1: Wake up? Really? But that said, he also is in 46 00:03:14,080 --> 00:03:17,320 Speaker 1: his own cell, segregated from other inmates there at Lott 47 00:03:17,320 --> 00:03:21,880 Speaker 1: of County, and has his own TV and basic cable. 48 00:03:22,680 --> 00:03:26,880 Speaker 1: An inmate says that he watches himself all the time. 49 00:03:27,800 --> 00:03:32,040 Speaker 1: That is really kind of bizarre. Okay, I'll get onto 50 00:03:32,200 --> 00:03:35,880 Speaker 1: him finding the Lord in a moment, but what do 51 00:03:35,960 --> 00:03:39,480 Speaker 1: you make of him loving every minute of the coverage 52 00:03:39,480 --> 00:03:43,320 Speaker 1: about himself? Well, we know from his immediate history that 53 00:03:43,360 --> 00:03:47,200 Speaker 1: he's a narcissist. He loves talking about himself. He loves 54 00:03:47,200 --> 00:03:50,680 Speaker 1: thinking of himself as vital and very important. So now 55 00:03:50,680 --> 00:03:54,800 Speaker 1: he is, thanks to his cable connection to the outside world. 56 00:03:55,720 --> 00:03:57,200 Speaker 1: Hold on, he just gave me a thought, and you know, 57 00:03:57,280 --> 00:04:00,720 Speaker 1: I'll completely forget it in one minute. You had his 58 00:04:02,120 --> 00:04:06,000 Speaker 1: view of himself. I'm going to circle back to the 59 00:04:07,080 --> 00:04:11,960 Speaker 1: private TV and cable access he has. But that really 60 00:04:12,680 --> 00:04:16,600 Speaker 1: jarred me when you said that because when he was killing, 61 00:04:16,800 --> 00:04:21,039 Speaker 1: according to prosecutors, killing those four students, there they were 62 00:04:21,760 --> 00:04:27,000 Speaker 1: in a very vulnerable position. They had been out that night, 63 00:04:27,360 --> 00:04:30,840 Speaker 1: some of them surely had been drinking, having a good time. 64 00:04:31,480 --> 00:04:35,719 Speaker 1: And they're in bed, the lights are off, it's dibbed 65 00:04:35,760 --> 00:04:39,080 Speaker 1: a little. Do they know Brian Koberger is going to 66 00:04:39,120 --> 00:04:41,559 Speaker 1: come in dressed all in black with a face mask 67 00:04:41,680 --> 00:04:49,840 Speaker 1: on and a sharp knife, fixed blade knife. The power 68 00:04:49,920 --> 00:04:54,760 Speaker 1: he must have felt over those four victims. Del Carson 69 00:04:55,279 --> 00:04:58,600 Speaker 1: is just sick. Well, it is. I mean, there's a 70 00:04:58,640 --> 00:05:03,120 Speaker 1: little doubt some one who invests in a knife and 71 00:05:03,279 --> 00:05:05,840 Speaker 1: breaking into someone's house in the middle of the night 72 00:05:06,400 --> 00:05:09,800 Speaker 1: in order to slaughter them is something that most of 73 00:05:09,880 --> 00:05:13,760 Speaker 1: us could never even reasonably consider, and that's outside the 74 00:05:13,920 --> 00:05:18,719 Speaker 1: range of normal human conduct. But this individual is described 75 00:05:18,720 --> 00:05:22,280 Speaker 1: by other inmates in the facility, has the look of 76 00:05:22,920 --> 00:05:27,240 Speaker 1: land the fellow who killed other people. So there's this 77 00:05:27,720 --> 00:05:32,040 Speaker 1: stare that we've heard about at the student union, with 78 00:05:32,560 --> 00:05:35,360 Speaker 1: young ladies looking at him and him looking at them. 79 00:05:35,839 --> 00:05:39,800 Speaker 1: I mean, there is something evil connected with this individual, 80 00:05:40,360 --> 00:05:44,680 Speaker 1: as based on his own behavior. That stare is something. 81 00:05:44,960 --> 00:05:49,839 Speaker 1: My daughter saw his picture and the first thing she 82 00:05:49,920 --> 00:05:53,960 Speaker 1: said is Mom, his eyes look so evil. She hadn't 83 00:05:53,960 --> 00:05:56,560 Speaker 1: see a side by side of him and Bundy or 84 00:05:56,640 --> 00:05:59,680 Speaker 1: anything like that. She came looked over my shoulder and 85 00:05:59,680 --> 00:06:02,039 Speaker 1: I was getting an article on my iPad about him, 86 00:06:02,600 --> 00:06:05,440 Speaker 1: and I had that. It's now everywhere picture of him, 87 00:06:05,720 --> 00:06:10,040 Speaker 1: him in his orange jumpsuit. Look, I think he's going 88 00:06:10,080 --> 00:06:13,960 Speaker 1: into court, but he's looking turns back and looks at 89 00:06:14,040 --> 00:06:17,120 Speaker 1: the camera. That's the picture she saw and she's just 90 00:06:17,200 --> 00:06:22,120 Speaker 1: fifteen and it hit her. Um. But back to him 91 00:06:22,120 --> 00:06:25,599 Speaker 1: watching every minute of coverage. It makes me think of 92 00:06:25,760 --> 00:06:31,119 Speaker 1: other serial killers such as BTK buying torture, killed Dennis Rader, 93 00:06:31,720 --> 00:06:38,880 Speaker 1: who actually was communicating with the media. I mean, they're 94 00:06:39,000 --> 00:06:43,800 Speaker 1: fascinated with themselves. That's exactly right, even Bundy. And I've 95 00:06:43,839 --> 00:06:49,440 Speaker 1: seen some him drawn pencil sketches that he made of 96 00:06:49,560 --> 00:06:53,640 Speaker 1: himself when he looked in a mirror. Okay, you're you're 97 00:06:53,760 --> 00:06:58,640 Speaker 1: you're getting me off on that again. Um, sorry about 98 00:06:59,240 --> 00:07:02,640 Speaker 1: Bundy draw pictures of himself in his various costumes as 99 00:07:02,640 --> 00:07:06,160 Speaker 1: he looked into the mirror. Yes, okay, So how does 100 00:07:06,160 --> 00:07:10,000 Speaker 1: this relate back to BTK in the fascination with self? 101 00:07:11,000 --> 00:07:13,840 Speaker 1: But I think they grow up in an environment And 102 00:07:13,960 --> 00:07:17,320 Speaker 1: I'm not a psychiatrist or a psychologist, but I know 103 00:07:17,520 --> 00:07:19,760 Speaker 1: enough to know that they grow up in an environment 104 00:07:19,920 --> 00:07:23,160 Speaker 1: and they're different than everybody else, and that's what sets 105 00:07:23,240 --> 00:07:25,840 Speaker 1: them apart, sets them in a world of their own. 106 00:07:26,440 --> 00:07:30,520 Speaker 1: And so it's it's something that we interviewed a number 107 00:07:30,520 --> 00:07:34,080 Speaker 1: of serial pillars back in the eighties and all of 108 00:07:34,120 --> 00:07:39,720 Speaker 1: them had similar characteristics. So part of that similar characteristic 109 00:07:39,920 --> 00:07:42,920 Speaker 1: is that they're a loaners. Oh well, what like characteristics? 110 00:07:43,400 --> 00:07:46,680 Speaker 1: Don't you know, build me up just to drop me flat? 111 00:07:46,800 --> 00:07:53,160 Speaker 1: What what? They're loaners. They are not engaged with other groups. 112 00:07:53,240 --> 00:07:57,240 Speaker 1: They tend to be by themselves, and they tend to 113 00:07:57,280 --> 00:08:01,920 Speaker 1: focus on the evil part of the world. And they've 114 00:08:02,320 --> 00:08:06,080 Speaker 1: violence is something they're interested in, Sexuality is something that 115 00:08:06,120 --> 00:08:09,680 Speaker 1: they're interested in. All of those things morph into what 116 00:08:09,720 --> 00:08:14,160 Speaker 1: we today are calling in cells. So these are individuals 117 00:08:14,200 --> 00:08:19,440 Speaker 1: who simply cannot have a legitimate relationship with other humans, 118 00:08:19,480 --> 00:08:40,880 Speaker 1: particularly of the opposite sex. Time stories with Nancy Grace. 119 00:08:41,720 --> 00:08:45,360 Speaker 1: So when you say in cell, that's short that's abbreviated 120 00:08:45,400 --> 00:08:50,760 Speaker 1: for involuntary celibate. In other words, a man that wants 121 00:08:50,760 --> 00:08:53,600 Speaker 1: to be with women, but they don't want to be 122 00:08:53,640 --> 00:08:58,400 Speaker 1: with him. For whatever reason, he is not having sex 123 00:08:58,440 --> 00:09:01,120 Speaker 1: with women. He's not in day eating no matter how 124 00:09:01,200 --> 00:09:04,360 Speaker 1: much he wants to. Of course, the Siminlar cases out 125 00:09:04,360 --> 00:09:09,960 Speaker 1: of California. Elliott Rogers, whose father was a famous director, 126 00:09:10,000 --> 00:09:14,080 Speaker 1: as I recall, and he opens fire onto college campus 127 00:09:14,640 --> 00:09:18,800 Speaker 1: and also releases I guess on YouTube many of his 128 00:09:19,200 --> 00:09:23,400 Speaker 1: in cell rants about how much he hates women and 129 00:09:23,520 --> 00:09:25,920 Speaker 1: why are they with this guy or that guy instead 130 00:09:25,960 --> 00:09:34,600 Speaker 1: of with him? Listen, hi, Elliot Roger here, Well, this 131 00:09:34,640 --> 00:09:38,800 Speaker 1: is my last video. It all has to come to this. 132 00:09:40,280 --> 00:09:45,800 Speaker 1: Tomorrow's the day of retribution, the day in which I 133 00:09:45,840 --> 00:09:50,520 Speaker 1: will have my revenge against humanity, against all of you. 134 00:09:53,080 --> 00:09:55,880 Speaker 1: For the last eight years of my life, ever since 135 00:09:55,880 --> 00:09:59,880 Speaker 1: I've hit puberty, I've been forced to endure an existence 136 00:10:00,559 --> 00:10:07,400 Speaker 1: of loneliness, rejection, and unfulfilled desires. Oh because girls have 137 00:10:07,559 --> 00:10:13,880 Speaker 1: never been attracted to me. Girls gave their affection and 138 00:10:14,080 --> 00:10:18,360 Speaker 1: sex and love to other men, but never to me. 139 00:10:20,120 --> 00:10:23,080 Speaker 1: I'm twenty two years old and I'm still a virgin. 140 00:10:24,640 --> 00:10:29,480 Speaker 1: Has been very tortuous. College is the time when everyone 141 00:10:29,559 --> 00:10:34,280 Speaker 1: experiences those things such as sex and fun and pleasure. 142 00:10:36,280 --> 00:10:38,680 Speaker 1: But in those years I've had to rot in loneliness. 143 00:10:40,960 --> 00:10:46,760 Speaker 1: It's not fair. You girls have never been attracted to me. 144 00:10:47,760 --> 00:10:49,920 Speaker 1: I don't know why you girls aren't attracted to me, 145 00:10:50,760 --> 00:10:55,240 Speaker 1: but I will punish you all for it. It's an injustice, 146 00:10:55,360 --> 00:10:59,400 Speaker 1: a crime, because I don't know what you don't see 147 00:10:59,440 --> 00:11:03,199 Speaker 1: in me and the perfect guy, and yet you throw 148 00:11:03,240 --> 00:11:08,680 Speaker 1: yourselves and all these obnoxious men instead of me, the 149 00:11:08,800 --> 00:11:14,280 Speaker 1: supreme gentleman. Ah. To hear him is just chilling. Don't 150 00:11:14,320 --> 00:11:17,600 Speaker 1: you find it interesting? Don't you find it interesting that 151 00:11:17,679 --> 00:11:21,520 Speaker 1: these men come from a woman. I mean, the whole 152 00:11:21,600 --> 00:11:25,440 Speaker 1: thing is sort of bizarre to me, because women, I 153 00:11:25,480 --> 00:11:30,320 Speaker 1: don't think fully appreciate their ability to destroy or injure 154 00:11:30,679 --> 00:11:34,959 Speaker 1: a male by denying them access, and that is in 155 00:11:35,480 --> 00:11:39,160 Speaker 1: mother nature. I guess you're talking about access to sex. Well, 156 00:11:39,240 --> 00:11:43,040 Speaker 1: I am talking about that every every time I talk 157 00:11:43,120 --> 00:11:46,199 Speaker 1: to you, I'm talking about basic cable in his cell. Somehow, 158 00:11:46,360 --> 00:11:49,240 Speaker 1: Dale Carson, you end up talking about sex. Well, it's 159 00:11:49,240 --> 00:11:52,360 Speaker 1: a pretty important aspect of our existence, wouldn't you agree? Well, 160 00:11:52,400 --> 00:11:53,640 Speaker 1: I don't know what it has to do with him 161 00:11:53,640 --> 00:11:57,000 Speaker 1: watching basic cable alone in a cell, but that said, 162 00:11:58,880 --> 00:12:00,720 Speaker 1: the way I think about I mean, I look at 163 00:12:00,760 --> 00:12:04,560 Speaker 1: the way my dad treated my mom whenever she would 164 00:12:04,600 --> 00:12:09,079 Speaker 1: have a success or some achievement at work or at 165 00:12:09,200 --> 00:12:14,720 Speaker 1: church or whatever she was doing, he was happy. It 166 00:12:14,800 --> 00:12:20,400 Speaker 1: was never like jealous or angry. And my husband is 167 00:12:20,440 --> 00:12:26,720 Speaker 1: the same way my son. Whenever my daughter Lucy achieves something, 168 00:12:27,160 --> 00:12:31,079 Speaker 1: he's like the first one to say, Wow, Lucy, that's great. 169 00:12:31,920 --> 00:12:35,280 Speaker 1: I just find it. I don't understand how an insult 170 00:12:35,320 --> 00:12:39,960 Speaker 1: grows up with so much hatred toward women, but there 171 00:12:40,040 --> 00:12:44,640 Speaker 1: had to be hatred toward women and Brian Coburger's heart 172 00:12:45,000 --> 00:12:48,000 Speaker 1: if in fact he did this thing, Can I get 173 00:12:48,040 --> 00:12:52,640 Speaker 1: you out of the weeds? Del Carson and back in 174 00:12:52,679 --> 00:12:59,000 Speaker 1: the middle of the road talking about Coburger's obsession with 175 00:12:59,160 --> 00:13:05,720 Speaker 1: himself and how the prosecutor can he use that at trial? Well, 176 00:13:05,800 --> 00:13:08,440 Speaker 1: if he ever decided to testify on the stand, you 177 00:13:08,559 --> 00:13:11,920 Speaker 1: I both know how it would all happen, Right, He 178 00:13:12,000 --> 00:13:15,400 Speaker 1: would suddenly be angry and full of himself on the stand, 179 00:13:15,640 --> 00:13:18,360 Speaker 1: and he would lose any benefit with the jury panel 180 00:13:18,559 --> 00:13:21,800 Speaker 1: that he might have acquired by testifying. I mean, that's 181 00:13:21,840 --> 00:13:25,440 Speaker 1: the way those things occur. We also know that inside 182 00:13:25,480 --> 00:13:29,960 Speaker 1: the lot of County jail, the jailers choose for the 183 00:13:30,040 --> 00:13:35,920 Speaker 1: other inmates watch, probably because it's a group TV, and 184 00:13:36,120 --> 00:13:38,199 Speaker 1: you don't want the inmates to break out into a 185 00:13:38,240 --> 00:13:41,080 Speaker 1: fight and stab each other with a shank over whether 186 00:13:41,120 --> 00:13:44,800 Speaker 1: they're going to watch Martha Stewart or let's make a deal. 187 00:13:45,440 --> 00:13:50,000 Speaker 1: That's how, that's why, that's why they stopped having inmates 188 00:13:50,480 --> 00:13:55,800 Speaker 1: given access to the Internet or at the time, cable 189 00:13:56,040 --> 00:13:59,640 Speaker 1: in the Jacksonville jails, because they would fight over what 190 00:14:00,040 --> 00:14:03,200 Speaker 1: animal wants to be displayed. And here Coburg has got 191 00:14:03,200 --> 00:14:07,520 Speaker 1: his own private delivery service with table. I mean, it's incredible. 192 00:14:07,800 --> 00:14:09,960 Speaker 1: Why would you do Well, wait a minute, it's not 193 00:14:10,080 --> 00:14:13,920 Speaker 1: really that hard to imagine. If you could see my son, 194 00:14:14,160 --> 00:14:17,400 Speaker 1: he wants to watch Kung Fu and Action and I'm 195 00:14:17,440 --> 00:14:20,480 Speaker 1: on his side. Don't tell Lucy and she wants to 196 00:14:20,520 --> 00:14:27,440 Speaker 1: watch Vampire Diaries, and she wants to watch Gossip Girl 197 00:14:27,800 --> 00:14:32,400 Speaker 1: and Gilmore Girls. She's all about Rory and where's Rory 198 00:14:32,440 --> 00:14:37,000 Speaker 1: going to go to college? So and they had, let 199 00:14:37,000 --> 00:14:40,120 Speaker 1: me just say, very strident discussions about what's going to 200 00:14:40,240 --> 00:14:42,600 Speaker 1: be Well, my husband and I just want to watch 201 00:14:42,600 --> 00:14:46,800 Speaker 1: A father brown and fall asleep. But that's it. I 202 00:14:46,840 --> 00:14:52,320 Speaker 1: can imagine hardened inmates, you know, literally stabbing each other 203 00:14:52,400 --> 00:14:56,320 Speaker 1: with a homemade shank over whether they're gonna watch as 204 00:14:56,360 --> 00:14:59,360 Speaker 1: the World Turns or that is that even still on 205 00:14:59,480 --> 00:15:02,760 Speaker 1: or is that off? It's not on. Okay, a soap 206 00:15:02,800 --> 00:15:08,800 Speaker 1: opera or whatever, A talk show, I can definitely see 207 00:15:08,840 --> 00:15:12,960 Speaker 1: that happening. But my point is Coberger has his own 208 00:15:13,000 --> 00:15:15,720 Speaker 1: TV and he gets to pick what he watches as 209 00:15:15,720 --> 00:15:18,680 Speaker 1: opposed to the other inmates. That's not right, Oh no, 210 00:15:18,760 --> 00:15:22,240 Speaker 1: it's not. And it does show a favorite chisen towards 211 00:15:22,280 --> 00:15:26,040 Speaker 1: his situation, which is that he's in custody for slaughterings 212 00:15:26,120 --> 00:15:33,040 Speaker 1: for people. We also know that he has not asked 213 00:15:33,040 --> 00:15:38,400 Speaker 1: for mental health counseling, but he has quote found God 214 00:15:38,760 --> 00:15:41,760 Speaker 1: behind bars. Can I tell you funny story? Okay, I 215 00:15:41,880 --> 00:15:44,320 Speaker 1: was a new prosecutor and I had just been a 216 00:15:44,400 --> 00:15:47,360 Speaker 1: sign my own courtroom, and I was handling all the 217 00:15:47,400 --> 00:15:50,680 Speaker 1: States business from that courtroom, which was a lot of 218 00:15:50,800 --> 00:15:56,000 Speaker 1: a lot of felonies. So okay, the way that courtroom 219 00:15:56,040 --> 00:16:01,160 Speaker 1: worked is we would handle the jail cases first, plea 220 00:16:01,320 --> 00:16:04,760 Speaker 1: arrayment day, because you know, the inmates would come over 221 00:16:04,840 --> 00:16:08,880 Speaker 1: on a bus and you wanted them generally finished by 222 00:16:08,880 --> 00:16:10,800 Speaker 1: a certain time whatever business you were going to do 223 00:16:10,840 --> 00:16:12,360 Speaker 1: with them, so they could get back on the bus. 224 00:16:12,360 --> 00:16:15,280 Speaker 1: And get back in time. So I would try to 225 00:16:15,320 --> 00:16:20,560 Speaker 1: take the jail mates please and plea discussions first, and 226 00:16:20,680 --> 00:16:24,760 Speaker 1: in this court, the defense attorney for each jail mate 227 00:16:25,000 --> 00:16:28,600 Speaker 1: would come into a conference room. I would sit there 228 00:16:28,760 --> 00:16:31,960 Speaker 1: and then they'd bring in the inmate and I'd go 229 00:16:32,040 --> 00:16:33,720 Speaker 1: through the police file and what I knew about his 230 00:16:33,840 --> 00:16:38,080 Speaker 1: record and get make an offer on a plea deal. 231 00:16:38,200 --> 00:16:41,240 Speaker 1: And it was usually a lot, and they usually wouldn't 232 00:16:41,280 --> 00:16:45,040 Speaker 1: take it, and then finally break down and take it 233 00:16:45,200 --> 00:16:47,920 Speaker 1: as I'm striking. No, not after I started striking a jury. 234 00:16:48,000 --> 00:16:53,320 Speaker 1: No more deals then. But that said. One inmate came 235 00:16:53,360 --> 00:16:59,640 Speaker 1: in with a giant hand crocheted cross made out of yarn, 236 00:16:59,680 --> 00:17:04,719 Speaker 1: I get us hanging around his neck. No, it was 237 00:17:04,760 --> 00:17:07,919 Speaker 1: like red yarn or something. And I looked at him. 238 00:17:07,960 --> 00:17:11,680 Speaker 1: I thought, you know what, this guy is clearly trying 239 00:17:11,680 --> 00:17:14,439 Speaker 1: to turn his life around. He has found the Lord. 240 00:17:15,280 --> 00:17:18,160 Speaker 1: So you know, I'm going to take that to consideration 241 00:17:18,280 --> 00:17:21,040 Speaker 1: in the deal. He's trying to turn his life around. 242 00:17:22,640 --> 00:17:25,760 Speaker 1: So I told him that, I said, did you make that? 243 00:17:26,080 --> 00:17:28,359 Speaker 1: Why did you make that? What does that mean to you? 244 00:17:29,760 --> 00:17:33,600 Speaker 1: Well he gave me all the right answers, that said, 245 00:17:33,720 --> 00:17:37,359 Speaker 1: can I tell you that was on a Thursday. The 246 00:17:37,560 --> 00:17:43,560 Speaker 1: next Thursday, about eighteen inmates came in with giant yarn 247 00:17:43,640 --> 00:17:50,320 Speaker 1: crosses around their necks. Yes, I was duped. I was duped. 248 00:17:50,480 --> 00:17:55,600 Speaker 1: So now here it is again, Coburger has found the Lord. 249 00:17:56,400 --> 00:17:58,800 Speaker 1: What do you make of that, Carson, Well, I think 250 00:17:59,280 --> 00:18:02,640 Speaker 1: us usually lives in the jails because they don't have 251 00:18:02,680 --> 00:18:06,320 Speaker 1: any hope. They know they're guilty, and you know, you 252 00:18:06,440 --> 00:18:08,639 Speaker 1: got to pay the piper here on This better not 253 00:18:08,720 --> 00:18:12,040 Speaker 1: be any kind of a christ joke, because I do 254 00:18:12,119 --> 00:18:14,680 Speaker 1: not take Mary kindly to that. Oh it's not a joke. 255 00:18:14,760 --> 00:18:17,680 Speaker 1: If you've ever been in the old prisons, you'll see 256 00:18:17,960 --> 00:18:23,400 Speaker 1: beautiful pictures drawn on the concrete walls of the Christ. 257 00:18:24,160 --> 00:18:26,800 Speaker 1: I mean, it is true that that's all they have 258 00:18:26,920 --> 00:18:29,680 Speaker 1: to look forward to because they know they're guilty. They 259 00:18:29,720 --> 00:18:32,359 Speaker 1: know they're guilty. But you know, you got to give 260 00:18:32,480 --> 00:18:36,320 Speaker 1: Caesar his due right, and that's on this planet, and 261 00:18:36,359 --> 00:18:39,960 Speaker 1: that's where he's got to pay the piper. And what 262 00:18:40,080 --> 00:18:44,359 Speaker 1: happens in the future. If there is a heaven, which 263 00:18:44,400 --> 00:18:46,920 Speaker 1: I hope there is and I believe there is, then 264 00:18:46,960 --> 00:18:52,160 Speaker 1: of course that's on him, but not for here, for us, 265 00:18:52,720 --> 00:18:56,399 Speaker 1: for us today. If he's convicted of these crimes, he 266 00:18:56,520 --> 00:18:59,280 Speaker 1: needs to suffer a maximum penalty. This is someone who 267 00:18:59,320 --> 00:19:03,080 Speaker 1: does not need to be living among us any longer. 268 00:19:03,480 --> 00:19:08,560 Speaker 1: I understand that he has given a private Mass on Sunday. 269 00:19:09,760 --> 00:19:14,520 Speaker 1: I've never heard that he or his family were very 270 00:19:14,560 --> 00:19:17,360 Speaker 1: religious prior to this. Maybe they are, and I don't 271 00:19:17,400 --> 00:19:20,520 Speaker 1: know about it, but he does go to Mass and 272 00:19:20,560 --> 00:19:24,560 Speaker 1: he has deep conversations with the priest. Of course, del 273 00:19:24,640 --> 00:19:27,960 Speaker 1: Carson explained why we will never know what those two 274 00:19:28,000 --> 00:19:30,520 Speaker 1: were saying to each other. Well, that's a privilege, but 275 00:19:30,960 --> 00:19:34,360 Speaker 1: it may only last as long as he's alive. Right, Well, 276 00:19:34,359 --> 00:19:39,920 Speaker 1: we're never going to hear what they say because the priest, yes, 277 00:19:40,000 --> 00:19:46,720 Speaker 1: penitent client, that's you know, priest, parishioner. What you say 278 00:19:46,920 --> 00:19:52,440 Speaker 1: to your pastor or your spiritual counselor can never come 279 00:19:52,440 --> 00:19:55,439 Speaker 1: into court. It's like an attorney client privilege or husband 280 00:19:55,480 --> 00:19:59,359 Speaker 1: wife privilege, and it does not the priest. Well, I 281 00:19:59,359 --> 00:20:01,359 Speaker 1: guess it would be the priest that would do it. 282 00:20:01,640 --> 00:20:04,040 Speaker 1: But for instance, if a husband tells a wife, hey, 283 00:20:04,040 --> 00:20:07,240 Speaker 1: I committed a murder, and she's called to the stand 284 00:20:07,320 --> 00:20:11,160 Speaker 1: as the husband that calls the privilege, that's a privilege communication. 285 00:20:11,480 --> 00:20:14,520 Speaker 1: You can't ask her about that, so anything that they're 286 00:20:14,560 --> 00:20:18,720 Speaker 1: saying to each other will never be divulged in court. 287 00:20:18,960 --> 00:20:20,960 Speaker 1: So we know that. We also know he gets to 288 00:20:21,000 --> 00:20:24,360 Speaker 1: go to the library. We know that he can get calls, 289 00:20:24,800 --> 00:20:32,040 Speaker 1: and he has options to call on FaceTime or contact 290 00:20:32,080 --> 00:20:37,040 Speaker 1: them by regular phone. So he's got a lot of privileges. 291 00:20:37,640 --> 00:20:41,360 Speaker 1: What he's got unique privileges that the other inmates are 292 00:20:41,359 --> 00:20:45,920 Speaker 1: not enjoying because they don't have the same notoriety because 293 00:20:45,920 --> 00:20:50,440 Speaker 1: they haven't killed four people. That's exactly right. But I'm 294 00:20:50,640 --> 00:20:53,000 Speaker 1: telling you, I'm of the opinion that they shouldn't have 295 00:20:53,080 --> 00:20:56,280 Speaker 1: access to the media because it simply allows them to 296 00:20:56,400 --> 00:20:59,840 Speaker 1: generate their Oh and as a defense attorney, you will 297 00:21:00,080 --> 00:21:02,080 Speaker 1: have times come to you and say, well, this guy 298 00:21:02,119 --> 00:21:04,719 Speaker 1: only got this much, and this guy did this, and 299 00:21:04,760 --> 00:21:07,120 Speaker 1: he said that, And it makes for a great deal 300 00:21:07,160 --> 00:21:11,880 Speaker 1: of confusion because it's likely not often true, but likely 301 00:21:12,440 --> 00:21:15,520 Speaker 1: that we know whether our minds are guilty or not. 302 00:21:29,240 --> 00:21:34,200 Speaker 1: Time stories with Nancy Grace. What do you think, other 303 00:21:34,240 --> 00:21:38,920 Speaker 1: than him basking in his own limelight, what do you 304 00:21:39,000 --> 00:21:45,320 Speaker 1: make of the fact that many within law enforcement are 305 00:21:45,440 --> 00:21:48,600 Speaker 1: voicing the opinion in that he is a perfect candidate 306 00:21:49,280 --> 00:21:53,000 Speaker 1: for the death penalty. Well, I believe that there are 307 00:21:53,040 --> 00:21:55,240 Speaker 1: certain people, as I said earlier, who should not be 308 00:21:55,320 --> 00:21:57,280 Speaker 1: among us any longer, and we don't need to be 309 00:21:57,320 --> 00:22:01,800 Speaker 1: supporting them. How to manage whether you empower the government 310 00:22:01,880 --> 00:22:05,520 Speaker 1: to kill people, which we you know, we don't want 311 00:22:05,560 --> 00:22:09,520 Speaker 1: other people killing people. We don't want that. But it's 312 00:22:09,720 --> 00:22:14,920 Speaker 1: a big controversy. There are people who are definitely against 313 00:22:15,160 --> 00:22:17,840 Speaker 1: point of phrase, the death penalty, and there are those 314 00:22:18,080 --> 00:22:23,080 Speaker 1: who are for it. My position, my position ultimately is 315 00:22:23,119 --> 00:22:26,640 Speaker 1: that if you do something as horrible as what he's 316 00:22:26,680 --> 00:22:30,320 Speaker 1: accused of doing, if you're the perpetrator of that, you 317 00:22:30,440 --> 00:22:33,680 Speaker 1: no longer need to be among us. But I would 318 00:22:33,720 --> 00:22:36,840 Speaker 1: like to interview him to find out something we don't 319 00:22:36,880 --> 00:22:38,680 Speaker 1: need to know, but I'd love to know, is what 320 00:22:38,920 --> 00:22:44,040 Speaker 1: motivated him. What was the point where he reached the 321 00:22:44,119 --> 00:22:46,960 Speaker 1: decision in his own mind that he was going to 322 00:22:47,040 --> 00:22:51,199 Speaker 1: commit this horrible offense, the motive, and I understand we 323 00:22:51,200 --> 00:22:53,840 Speaker 1: don't need to know that, but I certainly would be 324 00:22:53,880 --> 00:22:58,720 Speaker 1: interested in knowing that, aside from you or my personal 325 00:22:58,760 --> 00:23:03,159 Speaker 1: feelings about the depa. He is a candidate for the 326 00:23:03,240 --> 00:23:07,240 Speaker 1: death penalty because the state has to lay out what 327 00:23:07,440 --> 00:23:11,560 Speaker 1: is called aggravating circumstances in order to seek the death penalty. 328 00:23:12,520 --> 00:23:17,080 Speaker 1: And one of those aggravating circumstances in many jurisdictions is 329 00:23:17,359 --> 00:23:21,879 Speaker 1: mass casualties, which equals more than one dead body, and 330 00:23:21,960 --> 00:23:25,760 Speaker 1: in this case we absolutely have that. Now here's an 331 00:23:25,760 --> 00:23:33,040 Speaker 1: indication del Carson, the judge has given another lawyer to 332 00:23:33,200 --> 00:23:37,159 Speaker 1: the defense team. He's really lawyering up. He's got a 333 00:23:37,240 --> 00:23:42,480 Speaker 1: fleet of lawyers now on his behalf. And to try 334 00:23:42,600 --> 00:23:45,439 Speaker 1: or defend a death penalty case, the lawyers must be 335 00:23:45,560 --> 00:23:51,040 Speaker 1: death penalty qualified. I had gotten I was death penalty 336 00:23:51,119 --> 00:23:56,760 Speaker 1: qualified as a prosecutor for the defense. You have had 337 00:23:56,800 --> 00:24:01,000 Speaker 1: to be second chair on a death penalty case. You've 338 00:24:01,000 --> 00:24:03,480 Speaker 1: had to put in so many hours on death penalty work, 339 00:24:04,320 --> 00:24:09,560 Speaker 1: or else you cannot represent the defendant and a death 340 00:24:09,560 --> 00:24:13,639 Speaker 1: penalty case. And now we see him lawyering up and 341 00:24:13,680 --> 00:24:16,359 Speaker 1: getting more lawyers. I think that's a sign to me 342 00:24:16,760 --> 00:24:19,600 Speaker 1: in the state will seek the death penalty that has 343 00:24:19,680 --> 00:24:23,119 Speaker 1: not been announced yet. We also know the Idaho jail 344 00:24:23,200 --> 00:24:30,280 Speaker 1: officials are willing to accommodate this quadruple murder suspect Brian 345 00:24:30,359 --> 00:24:40,200 Speaker 1: Coburger's vegan diet. I wonder if they wash the pans well. 346 00:24:40,240 --> 00:24:42,520 Speaker 1: They say they're not going to buy knew pots and pans. 347 00:24:43,200 --> 00:24:46,960 Speaker 1: But remember he did make his mom and dad buy 348 00:24:47,359 --> 00:24:52,000 Speaker 1: new pots and pans, and then makes you wonder. That 349 00:24:52,160 --> 00:24:55,879 Speaker 1: makes you wonder if that's not the trigger for his 350 00:24:56,160 --> 00:25:00,080 Speaker 1: insul behavior. What do you mean the relationship between his 351 00:25:00,200 --> 00:25:05,240 Speaker 1: mother and father with him? I mean he had to 352 00:25:05,359 --> 00:25:11,320 Speaker 1: generate the hostility toward women from some place, and you wonder, 353 00:25:11,400 --> 00:25:13,159 Speaker 1: why the fuck? But what does that have to do 354 00:25:13,240 --> 00:25:17,160 Speaker 1: with a vegan diet. Well, they got rid of their pants. 355 00:25:17,640 --> 00:25:22,520 Speaker 1: Who music control of that household? Oh well, obviously, Coburger. 356 00:25:22,680 --> 00:25:25,000 Speaker 1: Can I tell you something else I'm so happy about, 357 00:25:25,960 --> 00:25:31,000 Speaker 1: because you know, the circumstances surrounding the arrest are allowed 358 00:25:31,359 --> 00:25:36,280 Speaker 1: into evidence at trial. When they did the pre dawn 359 00:25:36,520 --> 00:25:40,640 Speaker 1: on the early morning raid on Coburger's family home in 360 00:25:40,680 --> 00:25:44,159 Speaker 1: the Poconos, he was standing there in the kitchen and 361 00:25:44,240 --> 00:25:49,720 Speaker 1: a pair of shorts wearing surgical gloves, separating trash and 362 00:25:49,800 --> 00:25:54,440 Speaker 1: putting his trash into sandwich bags. I could not be 363 00:25:54,920 --> 00:26:00,399 Speaker 1: any happier at this moment. Who does that? Timing is everything, 364 00:26:00,440 --> 00:26:04,840 Speaker 1: and who does that? Nobody other than guilty people. But 365 00:26:04,880 --> 00:26:07,560 Speaker 1: the same thing is true when he's asking for a 366 00:26:07,600 --> 00:26:14,960 Speaker 1: priest at his jail cell to give him well, to 367 00:26:15,119 --> 00:26:18,840 Speaker 1: allow him to confess if you will. I mean, it's 368 00:26:18,880 --> 00:26:23,000 Speaker 1: the same sort of thing. Right, he knows he's guilty, 369 00:26:23,560 --> 00:26:26,879 Speaker 1: he's got to give that information to somebody, and he 370 00:26:26,920 --> 00:26:30,439 Speaker 1: can give it in a priest penitent relationship and it 371 00:26:30,640 --> 00:26:35,439 Speaker 1: never gets disclosed outside. And you know, it's fascinates me 372 00:26:35,560 --> 00:26:37,280 Speaker 1: that he can do that. What do they give him 373 00:26:37,280 --> 00:26:40,040 Speaker 1: a private room? Because if the priest is in the 374 00:26:40,160 --> 00:26:42,919 Speaker 1: jail cell with him, certainly somebody's got to overhear that. 375 00:26:43,440 --> 00:26:45,879 Speaker 1: Can I just talk about him standing in the kitchen, 376 00:26:45,960 --> 00:26:50,360 Speaker 1: a pair of surgical gloves, separating the trash and putting 377 00:26:50,480 --> 00:26:54,240 Speaker 1: his trash in baggies? Can we just sent him in 378 00:26:54,320 --> 00:26:57,879 Speaker 1: plays I'm busy the cat is interested in Brian kay Burger. 379 00:27:00,720 --> 00:27:02,200 Speaker 1: That would be one of the first things I want 380 00:27:02,200 --> 00:27:04,240 Speaker 1: to tell the jury. And just let it sink in. 381 00:27:04,920 --> 00:27:09,439 Speaker 1: When he's arrested, he's standing in his parents' kitchen and 382 00:27:09,520 --> 00:27:14,679 Speaker 1: a pair of shorts and plastic gloves separating out his 383 00:27:14,920 --> 00:27:19,320 Speaker 1: trash and putting it in sandwich bags. Just hold on, wait, 384 00:27:20,200 --> 00:27:25,720 Speaker 1: let that sink in. What in the h double L 385 00:27:25,800 --> 00:27:28,960 Speaker 1: Why was he doing that? Obviously because he was trying 386 00:27:28,960 --> 00:27:34,159 Speaker 1: to hide evidence and he's trying to collect perhaps trophies 387 00:27:34,200 --> 00:27:37,199 Speaker 1: as well. Think about that. Sadly we're talking about it, 388 00:27:37,280 --> 00:27:41,520 Speaker 1: and it's going to be online, and he's gonna probably 389 00:27:41,560 --> 00:27:44,120 Speaker 1: find out about it when he hops onto the computer 390 00:27:44,400 --> 00:27:47,280 Speaker 1: in the library at the jail, and that will give 391 00:27:47,359 --> 00:27:50,199 Speaker 1: him some time to think about it and come up 392 00:27:50,200 --> 00:27:52,760 Speaker 1: with some zany theory about why he was doing it 393 00:27:53,160 --> 00:27:55,680 Speaker 1: to give his lawyers at trial, which I think is 394 00:27:55,720 --> 00:27:59,160 Speaker 1: going to be a death penalty case. Okay, del Carson, 395 00:28:00,000 --> 00:28:02,560 Speaker 1: any other thoughts you're gonna throw at me about Brian 396 00:28:02,640 --> 00:28:06,560 Speaker 1: Cary Burger and can he plays not about sex and 397 00:28:06,680 --> 00:28:11,600 Speaker 1: not about in sales something else? Right? So, one of 398 00:28:11,600 --> 00:28:13,879 Speaker 1: the things that occurred to me is they've subpointed all 399 00:28:13,920 --> 00:28:18,480 Speaker 1: this information from a variety of places and companies. And 400 00:28:18,640 --> 00:28:20,680 Speaker 1: one of those thoughts that occurred to me is when 401 00:28:20,720 --> 00:28:24,920 Speaker 1: you have grub hubs that's delivering food to places, if 402 00:28:24,960 --> 00:28:28,560 Speaker 1: he was on their app and he had signed up 403 00:28:28,560 --> 00:28:32,200 Speaker 1: to those programs, any of these delivery programs, and he's 404 00:28:32,320 --> 00:28:37,119 Speaker 1: in the vicinity of that residence where these murders occurred, 405 00:28:37,560 --> 00:28:41,920 Speaker 1: they would notice him that somebody wanted food delivered to 406 00:28:42,040 --> 00:28:46,480 Speaker 1: that residence. And that can allow someone like co Burger 407 00:28:46,880 --> 00:28:50,960 Speaker 1: access to your residence when they're just delivering the food. 408 00:28:51,360 --> 00:28:53,520 Speaker 1: They're gonna see you that, you're going to give them 409 00:28:53,520 --> 00:28:56,040 Speaker 1: a tip, You're going to open the door, you might 410 00:28:56,120 --> 00:28:59,560 Speaker 1: even invite him into the kitchen. Those are the dangers 411 00:28:59,600 --> 00:29:03,280 Speaker 1: that we've face today with the Internet and these systems 412 00:29:03,320 --> 00:29:06,920 Speaker 1: which don't verify, and of course with Coburger. If he 413 00:29:07,000 --> 00:29:10,320 Speaker 1: announced that he was in fact a PhD student in 414 00:29:10,400 --> 00:29:13,720 Speaker 1: an ear by college, he would pass any initial vetting 415 00:29:14,160 --> 00:29:17,360 Speaker 1: the companies would do. How do you protect I've got 416 00:29:17,400 --> 00:29:21,480 Speaker 1: advice for everybody on that Tell the driver leave it 417 00:29:21,640 --> 00:29:25,400 Speaker 1: at the door and go away. You've already put your 418 00:29:25,400 --> 00:29:28,200 Speaker 1: tip in, so there's no need for you to have 419 00:29:29,520 --> 00:29:34,320 Speaker 1: personal interaction with the food truck. I mean the food delivery. 420 00:29:34,440 --> 00:29:38,440 Speaker 1: But you know what you're talking about. At first I 421 00:29:38,480 --> 00:29:41,360 Speaker 1: started to pooh pooh it. But didn't they order food 422 00:29:41,400 --> 00:29:44,880 Speaker 1: that night? Yes? And he's saying, yes they did, and 423 00:29:45,840 --> 00:29:50,280 Speaker 1: no doubt that's a consistent behavior right before the murders, 424 00:29:50,760 --> 00:29:56,320 Speaker 1: Right before the murders. Del Carson, the reason you come 425 00:29:56,400 --> 00:30:01,640 Speaker 1: up with all of these really great ideas, former fed 426 00:30:02,120 --> 00:30:10,240 Speaker 1: with the FBI, now high profile lawyer, trial lawyer in Jacksonville, Okay, 427 00:30:10,320 --> 00:30:12,920 Speaker 1: Dela Carson. We'll see if any of our discussion comes 428 00:30:12,960 --> 00:30:17,600 Speaker 1: to fruition and co Burger. Hey, we know you're watching 429 00:30:19,240 --> 00:30:24,280 Speaker 1: Goodbye Friends, not you, Coburger, not you, everybody but you.