Speaker 1: I'm Debbie Peers and I was key hairstylist on the Office.
Speaker 1: I'm Kim Ferry and I was the department head for
Speaker 1: the office. Hello everybody, You're gonna love this one. Uh.
Speaker 1: First off, welcome to another installment of the Office Deep Dive.
Speaker 1: I am your host, Brian Baumgartner. The studio is crowded today, people,
Speaker 1: I am bringing you my conversation with the other half
Speaker 1: of our hair and makeup crew, the hair department of
Speaker 1: the Office. Now, if you haven't already, go listen to
Speaker 1: my interview with the office is head makeup artist Laverne Karacuzzi,
Speaker 1: because we make a few references to that conversation here.
Speaker 1: But then be sure to come right back to hear
Speaker 1: more fascinating behind the scenes stories from my very good
Speaker 1: friends Debbie Pierce and Kim Ferry. Now, having Debbie and
Speaker 1: Kim in the studio, it was like it was like
Speaker 1: getting a warm hug. I mean, when you think about it,
Speaker 1: I spent an entire decade of my life working with
Speaker 1: the two of them, and they really are extraordinary people
Speaker 1: to work with. They brought a brand new perspective to
Speaker 1: the beauty of the office conversation, Like you won't believe
Speaker 1: how long it took to make sure Meredith's bald cap
Speaker 1: looked well bald, and and the thought that went into
Speaker 1: Pam's hair evolution. I truly had no idea the care
Speaker 1: and concern that these women gave not only to the show,
Speaker 1: the plot, the crew, but but also to each other
Speaker 1: in really difficult times of their lives. It's nothing short
Speaker 1: of astounding. We were lucky to have them on set then,
Speaker 1: and well we're so lucky to have them on the
Speaker 1: podcast now. Now. Maybe that's enough tuting of their horns
Speaker 1: for now. I think our conversation really speaks for itself.
Speaker 1: So get ready to be blown away, like like the
Speaker 1: hair dryer blown away anyway. The wonderful geniuses that made
Speaker 1: up the hair department of the Office, Debbie Pierce and
Speaker 1: Kim Ferry, Bubble and Squeak. I love it, Bubble and
Speaker 1: Squeak on Bubble and Squeaker, cooking at every moment, lift
Speaker 1: over from the nut before. What is? Oh my god,
Speaker 1: it's so good to see. Oh my god, are you
Speaker 1: I'm good. I'm good. Oh my gosh. Thank you guys
Speaker 1: so much than it's fun to get together, man, look
Speaker 1: at you. I love the shirt. Well done, very well done.
Speaker 1: Um you today, this has been so great? Are you
Speaker 1: kidding me? I saw Laverne yesterday, Yes, yes, Um. I
Speaker 1: mean so many writers that are all now running their
Speaker 1: own worlds. Mike Sure and Brent Forrester, Claire Scanlon and
Speaker 1: Jenna Angela and Rain We've done so it's just so
Speaker 1: fun to see everybody. I know. But it's it's amazing. Um.
Speaker 1: I was out and I had my jacket on the
Speaker 1: we got season five or six or something, and all
Speaker 1: of a sudden, I was in a restaurant and this
Speaker 1: girl said, oh, I love your jacket. I said, do
Speaker 1: you watch the show? Oh? Yes, we love the Office.
Speaker 1: It was a whole new generation, right, I mean anywhere
Speaker 1: from thirteen to thirty five. I mean, it's it's a
Speaker 1: whole new group of people. Why do you think that is?
Speaker 1: I don't know. I think they just identified with the characters,
Speaker 1: and uh, that is on Netflix now and it's reruns
Speaker 1: and the series. So I just think they get a
Speaker 1: character that they really like and and they identify with
Speaker 1: them and it just has snowballed. It's it's amazing. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I mean we have been talking about and part of
Speaker 1: what I'm going back and looking at is. You know,
Speaker 1: we were the top scripted show on NBC for a
Speaker 1: long time, but the show now is bigger than it
Speaker 1: was that through Netflix. I'm just like, what, I don't know,
Speaker 1: what do you think? Just people identifying with the characters? Yeah,
Speaker 1: I just you know season too, it hit its prime. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's when it really did. It did, and they just
Speaker 1: wanted to see what was Steve gonna do next time?
Speaker 1: And the whole cast of characters. Really, the whole cast
Speaker 1: of characters, you never know what they're gonna do or
Speaker 1: say no. Because we were just laughing before you came
Speaker 1: in talking about Kim. When she called me about the show.
Speaker 1: She said, Debbie, UM, you know I'm gonna do this
Speaker 1: little show called The Office. You know, it's just about
Speaker 1: five um actors, you know, a couple of girls and
Speaker 1: uh so simple, you know, you know, can what you think?
Speaker 1: Come and join me and let's do this. I said, okay, okay,
Speaker 1: I'll call you tomorrow. So I didn't. I said, yeah, Kim,
Speaker 1: I'd like to do that. I'd like to do that
Speaker 1: with you. And then this little show blew up into
Speaker 1: this mega It was that hit. Yeah, so you said
Speaker 1: the show hit its prime in season two? Is that
Speaker 1: because that's when you guys came on it is it
Speaker 1: your responsible right? Exactly right? And you know we didn't
Speaker 1: have any budget either. We were so do you remember
Speaker 1: we were literally throwing like a can of hair sprayed
Speaker 1: to each other across like over the actors. Do you
Speaker 1: remember that we had no budget. We supplies and stuff
Speaker 1: on my own, right, and then Kim would go to
Speaker 1: set and I would be in the trailer, so I
Speaker 1: had to do all the guest actors and everything body
Speaker 1: that came back. So all of a sudden, we looked
Speaker 1: at each other set, Uh, this is getting to be
Speaker 1: bigger then we thought. So, you know, then after you know,
Speaker 1: see what the season three or four that we were
Speaker 1: able to get it really got another additional partition because
Speaker 1: it was kind of our one. But remember we would
Speaker 1: take breaks to we would sat down and we didn't
Speaker 1: know if the show was going to come back and
Speaker 1: see and they'd be like, okay, hey, we got another six,
Speaker 1: let's just do these six right, great, Okay, we'll be
Speaker 1: back great, and then it would sat down again, and
Speaker 1: it was really confusing those first steps two season two. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but it made it through. That must have been hard
Speaker 1: from a crew perspective to to you know, like we
Speaker 1: did that first six of season two, and then we
Speaker 1: went away and we had no idea if we were
Speaker 1: coming back or you know, and then and and that's
Speaker 1: real tricky because people need to know where their money
Speaker 1: is going to come from, of course, and so you
Speaker 1: get scared that you lose your crew because you know,
Speaker 1: you don't want people go to other the shows, you
Speaker 1: know and stuff. But we were blessed. We were blessed.
Speaker 1: We kept our crew pretty much together. I mean, there
Speaker 1: were a few people that had to leave and stuff,
Speaker 1: but we were blessed all the way to the end. Yeah,
Speaker 1: what do you think was so we were going for
Speaker 1: a very realistic look, moving away from what television was
Speaker 1: at that time, if you think about friends and stuff
Speaker 1: was did that present challenges or did that make it easier? Yeah? Yeah, no,
Speaker 1: presented challenges, especially for me. Well you know, both of
Speaker 1: us want to oh yeah, yeah, so we both worked.
Speaker 1: It worked in salons, you know, prior to getting into
Speaker 1: film television. But um, you know, when you see a
Speaker 1: person and something looks array, you know, out of out
Speaker 1: of whack and stuff, you immediately want to go over
Speaker 1: there and do something. And also with the makeup. I'm
Speaker 1: sure the verrant probably told you you want to at
Speaker 1: least haven't had a little colitude a person and everything.
Speaker 1: So yeah, it presents a challenge. And so it was
Speaker 1: funny because remember we didn't the second season though you
Speaker 1: were all having your own makeup and your own stuff.
Speaker 1: They we weren't touching them. You're forgetting that because they
Speaker 1: were getting their own touch ups at their own station
Speaker 1: and they had there and we would be sitting waiting.
Speaker 1: We would not go in that second season because that's
Speaker 1: that was per Pulfi, per Greg Daniel. But that was
Speaker 1: hard that, yeah, that you don't It was you guys
Speaker 1: that were touching yourself up and we would see you
Speaker 1: at the season three okay, season three we were able
Speaker 1: to then actually go in and start doing touch ups
Speaker 1: on you. But season two it was very I remember
Speaker 1: going in different probably wasn't supposed to, but I did
Speaker 1: not did not in season two it did, okay, I remember,
Speaker 1: oh my gosh, yeah, and I um I remember Ken
Speaker 1: Koppas was talking to me about he said that there
Speaker 1: was and this was before you, but on the on
Speaker 1: the pilot and moving forward as they were sort of
Speaker 1: establishing the look, and Ken went to all of the
Speaker 1: heads of department and said, anything that you would get
Speaker 1: fired on on some other show are the things that
Speaker 1: we want. So like, if a hair is out of place,
Speaker 1: and if a lighting isn't quite right, if we don't
Speaker 1: have a perfect frame shot on an actor, that's all good.
Speaker 1: We want those little mistakes to make it, you know,
Speaker 1: feel more real. Yeah, and that's kind of what you
Speaker 1: were told to write, like the hair did not have
Speaker 1: to match. Yeah. I mean originally I was offered the
Speaker 1: first six episodes, but I was still working on another show,
Speaker 1: so I couldn't do it. But I wish, I wish, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I just I couldn't because when we came in second season,
Speaker 1: everything changed. The whole look of the cast, yeah changed. Well,
Speaker 1: Steve had he was the first severe on that first season,
Speaker 1: and Kim softened him up. It looked great. Yeah, So
Speaker 1: what was the direction. We've talked a lot about that about,
Speaker 1: you know, feeling like if we were a show that's
Speaker 1: going to go on for longer than a season or two. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that Michael, we needed to find some redeeming values. And
Speaker 1: then they started writing in short ways and his look changed. Well.
Speaker 1: He also he had gone through you know, the Virgin
Speaker 1: so he basically had lost a lot of weight too,
Speaker 1: and looked a bit different than we did it first.
Speaker 1: But I remember coming in and having a meeting with
Speaker 1: him and in the trailer actually and just discussing with him.
Speaker 1: You know, I watched the first six episodes when I
Speaker 1: knew I was going to get the second season, and
Speaker 1: I told him, I really you know, they wanted him
Speaker 1: to look like Gordon Gecko. That was like his look. Technically,
Speaker 1: that's what they designed it for. Its gray slick, but
Speaker 1: it was too for me. It was too greasy and
Speaker 1: too slick and and not flattering and severe. Right, So
Speaker 1: I told him, like, I really want to make a
Speaker 1: big change, and I want to discuss it with you.
Speaker 1: And I did that pretty much with a lot of
Speaker 1: the actors, just kind of asking them, you know, how
Speaker 1: do you feel and what do you want and then
Speaker 1: let's incorporate this and then I can pitch it to
Speaker 1: Greg because he did have the final say over looks
Speaker 1: and things, and he was really great though. I mean,
Speaker 1: he would always listen to us and if we really
Speaker 1: wanted to push one kind of look or one certain thing,
Speaker 1: it was okay, and he would always come around, so
Speaker 1: that was great. I really appreciated his thought. Yeah, so
Speaker 1: doing that, trying to create that very sort of realistic look,
Speaker 1: ultimately it is more difficult than sort of that high fashion.
Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't know. It was easy, it
Speaker 1: was casual. It was also looked like real people, so
Speaker 1: they can be a little dishovel. I mean, it's almost
Speaker 1: easier because you're not doing the high end glam stuff.
Speaker 1: We're not putting on these you know, when I was
Speaker 1: doing Pretty liars, like they have all this hair, you
Speaker 1: have this makeup, you have this wardrobe. We didn't really
Speaker 1: have that, so it wasn't except when we do special shows. Yeah,
Speaker 1: when we did the Halloween episodes. Halloween episodes were always tricky,
Speaker 1: but yeah, I loved it though. I did every single
Speaker 1: week on that show entire time. Yeah, and I remember
Speaker 1: even the Halloween episodes. If you think of other shows
Speaker 1: that have Halloween episodes, the makeup, the hair, like, everything
Speaker 1: should look perfect, right. But Greg, I remember there was
Speaker 1: a discussion about him saying, well, but these are real
Speaker 1: people who are dressing for their office, so it's not
Speaker 1: gonna look perfect. He was very adamant about that these
Speaker 1: aren't people that are going to spend huge amounts of money.
Speaker 1: They just want to throw like a cheap He's like,
Speaker 1: make sure it's a cheap, simple wig that someone would
Speaker 1: buy office, you know, a basic store. It's not like
Speaker 1: a whole thing. Although we got a little more into
Speaker 1: that when you know, Rain and Creed and they started.
Speaker 1: We started with the wigs, and it got a little
Speaker 1: better as we went further. But in the beginning, yeah, definitely,
Speaker 1: and I wanted to show and tells for him. I
Speaker 1: would walk upstairs, I would present the whigs because he
Speaker 1: would give me an idea of you know, I want,
Speaker 1: you know, Mindy to have this, I want you know,
Speaker 1: Rain to have this um and he would kind of
Speaker 1: give me some ideas to go with and then I
Speaker 1: would present it to him. So I would carry it
Speaker 1: up and go to the writers. I try to make
Speaker 1: sure not many writers were in there, so that it
Speaker 1: was just kind of him and I wouldn't get too
Speaker 1: many beings because it gets lost. But it was great
Speaker 1: that the collaboration was fun and they were always open
Speaker 1: to it, and it was fun to be in there
Speaker 1: and watch them like laugh at this stuff and be like, Oh,
Speaker 1: that's gonna be so great or it's gonna be so
Speaker 1: good on them. It was fun. Do you feel there
Speaker 1: was more collaboration on the office than other shows. Yes? Absolutely.
Speaker 1: I think what I love about Greg is that he
Speaker 1: even if he wanted to discuss it, like he would
Speaker 1: listen and he would hear your side of it. It
Speaker 1: wasn't in other shows where they're just like, no, we
Speaker 1: want it like this. So, you know, he's such a
Speaker 1: kind person. And he would kind of stroll into our
Speaker 1: trailers sometimes and just wander around, which I love. And
Speaker 1: we were doing right and I'd be like anything He's
Speaker 1: like no, and he just like walked through, like need
Speaker 1: a haircut or anything. Sure, great, he's aidelic Sometimes he
Speaker 1: just you know, randomly come in. But yes, he's such
Speaker 1: a good person. But he trusts the people that he hired,
Speaker 1: and that's what I respect and that's what I really
Speaker 1: appreciated about him. Yeah. He it's what do they say,
Speaker 1: what's the He's smart enough to know what he doesn't know,
Speaker 1: you know, like he you know, like and get the
Speaker 1: people that do. Yes. Have you said that quote about
Speaker 1: Steve even a way too? What was it? Okay? This
Speaker 1: is a great speed of the leader is the speed
Speaker 1: of the game. That my girlfriend gave me that quote, um,
Speaker 1: meaning that the person that is upfront is who has
Speaker 1: the you know, the authority and the wherewithal umbility responsibilities,
Speaker 1: our leader. They're they're the leaders, and then the gang follows.
Speaker 1: So whoever is upfront, they're going to look at that person.
Speaker 1: That's what keeps us together, the leader. Yeah. Do you
Speaker 1: think Steve was a good leader? Yeah, I do. Great leader,
Speaker 1: a great leader. So, Debbie, when Steve left, I was
Speaker 1: reminded a lot of people went around from different departments
Speaker 1: and told stories about Steve. And three different people have
Speaker 1: told me one story, which was the story that you told, Um,
Speaker 1: it was about him. You were in a van. Yes, Uh,
Speaker 1: Steve was quite a gentleman and Um at that time,
Speaker 1: nobody really knew. But I was going through a situation
Speaker 1: with my hip. I was in a lot of pain
Speaker 1: and getting up and down on the van was very
Speaker 1: hard for me, and so UM, Kim and all the games,
Speaker 1: you know, they kind of knew, and so they would
Speaker 1: let me sit in the front when we would go
Speaker 1: on on location and stuff. So this one day, UM,
Speaker 1: we were all gathering into the van, um Steve and
Speaker 1: some of the actors, and I went to proceed to
Speaker 1: go in the back and he looked at me. He goes, Debbie,
Speaker 1: where are you going? I said, well, I'm letting you stay.
Speaker 1: He said, you go and take that seat, and I just, um,
Speaker 1: I just thought that was such a kind thing, because
Speaker 1: here is he's the star of the show, and he
Speaker 1: always did. He would stand there at that van. He
Speaker 1: would hold the door and help us in the van.
Speaker 1: You know, I said, some mama's raised a nice young man.
Speaker 1: But that's how he was, right. Yeah, but he did
Speaker 1: that with everybody, even you know what I mean, even
Speaker 1: just like he would wait and some other people would
Speaker 1: just go to their trailers, but he always stood there,
Speaker 1: every single woman down, every single man. And yes, so
Speaker 1: that meant so much to me. And it was funny
Speaker 1: because we came back, I think it was towards the
Speaker 1: end and um, he said, how are you doing, Debby?
Speaker 1: I said, I'm doing fine. Since I've seen you got
Speaker 1: a new hips bionic now and since then I've got
Speaker 1: another new Hi. I am the bion. I was talking
Speaker 1: into Laverne about what people don't realize is the hair
Speaker 1: and makeup trailer is what is what is it is
Speaker 1: the trick. It is the place where everybody comes. Um,
Speaker 1: you can make a break a show in the makeup
Speaker 1: and hair trail. I'm serious. You can make or break
Speaker 1: a show well because the way the environment is created.
Speaker 1: The way the environment is created because when actors come
Speaker 1: in in the morning, that early in the morning, it
Speaker 1: has to be calm and a safe place that they
Speaker 1: know they can come in. They can you know, study
Speaker 1: their lines, they can just relax and you as you work,
Speaker 1: you get to know your actors. You get to know
Speaker 1: when they're feeling okay and when they're not. You get
Speaker 1: to know when you can talk to them and laugh
Speaker 1: and joke, and you get to know when you need
Speaker 1: to shut up and don't say nothing exactly walk way
Speaker 1: and you need to walk away I mean, or you know,
Speaker 1: just give them their space, right. Yeah. So I told
Speaker 1: the producer that one time on another show. I said, Um,
Speaker 1: you know you gotta know that it starts right in here.
Speaker 1: We create an atmosphere and give them a place of
Speaker 1: safe safety, a safe player and the kind place we
Speaker 1: might play music that's soothing so that they can get
Speaker 1: into character and give them the performance that you need.
Speaker 1: You know, it's very interesting. I haven't really thought about
Speaker 1: this before, but just hearing you talk, just go with
Speaker 1: me for a second. Maybe this is bad, but when
Speaker 1: you hear some of what you're saying, the thing that
Speaker 1: is occurring to me is that you don't realize that
Speaker 1: as an actor, you're being poked and prodded kind of
Speaker 1: for twelve hours a day. Yeah, Like there's no in
Speaker 1: in no other sort of business. Are there people up
Speaker 1: in your business business? Right hours, it's like unzip your pants,
Speaker 1: take off your pants, let's run this wire up your leg,
Speaker 1: onto your chest, onto your skin. You know, someone's touching
Speaker 1: your face and touching your hand, right, And there are
Speaker 1: times where like you're trying to work on a scene,
Speaker 1: you're trying to do something and it's just like poke poke,
Speaker 1: poke poke, and so yeah, like the necessity to have
Speaker 1: an environment, especially first time that we're just getting ready
Speaker 1: like like sort of like stay away jackals. Let's you know,
Speaker 1: let's at least start the day we have to do
Speaker 1: these things, but let's try to create an environment that
Speaker 1: doesn't create sort of high stress and high anxiety from
Speaker 1: the very beginning. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, Well will you
Speaker 1: try to feel your actors, and when you go you
Speaker 1: might look up a Brian, do you need anything, and
Speaker 1: you'll say no, and I'll say, okay, back off and
Speaker 1: go to the next person, you know. So we try
Speaker 1: to respect that because we know that that is a
Speaker 1: thing where somebody's I'm gonna at you all the time.
Speaker 1: Sometimes it's like okay, I need a break here, right. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And especially I would say for continuity photos too. I
Speaker 1: know we had that thing up there, you'd have to
Speaker 1: stand there with all four sides, something that we have
Speaker 1: to do. And I know it's got to be annoying
Speaker 1: when you're we do, but we have to do our
Speaker 1: job too, because this is the stuff we have to submit.
Speaker 1: This is we have to turn in. This is going
Speaker 1: to be a record, because sometimes it is the question
Speaker 1: was that curl this way? Or was it that? And
Speaker 1: then But basically, you guys were really really good. I
Speaker 1: mean you were very patient. And I went to another
Speaker 1: show and uh no, no, no, no, no no no.
Speaker 1: Somebody told me Phillis was on another show, and um
Speaker 1: she went in and the guy said, I need to
Speaker 1: take your picture. Phillis got up there, she said, turn around.
Speaker 1: The guy said, Dabby, she did all four sides was
Speaker 1: trained well, real crazer. We foller today. It was hilarious.
Speaker 1: Phillis just turned around. She didn't she didn't squawk about anything.
Speaker 1: That's because we had to do that. Yeah. Well we
Speaker 1: had such a large cast, a large and it just
Speaker 1: get up bigger and bigger. This season, it just kept
Speaker 1: up getting bigger and bigger and bigger. So so many
Speaker 1: people to track and have to take care of. Yes, indeed,
Speaker 1: we had to keep a book. Yeah, Laverne talked about
Speaker 1: the battle plan. Yeah, that was important every day. That
Speaker 1: is something that the eighties would make for us. And
Speaker 1: we'd have basically a chart and it would have like
Speaker 1: at the top of it it would be you know,
Speaker 1: Kim and then who I do, and then Debbie and
Speaker 1: who she does down the line, and then then there
Speaker 1: was a makeup side as well, so we could really
Speaker 1: know and understand who was going where at what time
Speaker 1: because it was so many people getting through the work first,
Speaker 1: and then when it was like everybody had to be
Speaker 1: out on set, well that was you know, we had
Speaker 1: everybody through, but we got him through. We did all
Speaker 1: the time. All the time. We did. Who were the
Speaker 1: actors that you principally took care of. Um. I did Steve, John, Jenna, Angela,
Speaker 1: b J Mindy and make sure yeah he was yeah yeah.
Speaker 1: And then you and I did Phyllis, I did you,
Speaker 1: I did um Kate, Oscar and Leslie and then guest
Speaker 1: started to split them up. I loved I bet you did.
Speaker 1: Everybody loved address you're Everyone was like Debbie, you know
Speaker 1: he was British, Debbie, his hair is fine. Why are
Speaker 1: you still messing with his hair? Funny little more, Debbie,
Speaker 1: get your hands, get your hair off. Indes hairby it's professional.
Speaker 1: He's he was a nice guy. He was really a
Speaker 1: nice guy. Um, but you took care of you both
Speaker 1: worked on it. But kind of the biggest I think
Speaker 1: I can't think of really anything bigger hair additions throughout
Speaker 1: the series became Kevin's tupay. I almost brought that today. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I thought about it because it's in my storage. You know,
Speaker 1: I'm literally driving here I go. Yes, I should have gone,
Speaker 1: and I would have like presented it to you so
Speaker 1: you could pet it one more time. I'll bring it
Speaker 1: back for you. Yes, monumental. Yeah, I have a oh.
Speaker 1: I just posted a picture on my Instagram. Hold on.
Speaker 1: But it's like the picture of you when I was
Speaker 1: first trying it on, you remember, and Jenna and Oscar
Speaker 1: came up and they're just like they were making fun
Speaker 1: of you, and we were like they were heckling him,
Speaker 1: but he was standing strong. He was strong that this
Speaker 1: whole thing. Yes, I think it was supposed to be
Speaker 1: just a gag for the wedding. Yes, it was a gig,
Speaker 1: and then it came back. It came back. Um, so
Speaker 1: you guys come in season two, we're struggling. We're struggling.
Speaker 1: Then at the end of that season we get picked
Speaker 1: up fairly early for a full third season and The
Speaker 1: Office wins the Emmy for Best Comedy. Do you remember
Speaker 1: those feelings or did you feel like, well, we've got
Speaker 1: job security now, or you know, what was the what
Speaker 1: was the feeling around there as we shifted from a
Speaker 1: little engine that maybe do you remember? Um, I remember
Speaker 1: this because this was when for the Emmy's all the
Speaker 1: girls came in that day to the trailer and they
Speaker 1: had cheese and crackers and we had champagne and it
Speaker 1: was us doing them in our trailer where you know,
Speaker 1: everyone else is going too high end, you know, salons
Speaker 1: and they're probably getting everything done, but all the girls
Speaker 1: wanted to be together and it was so sweet. It
Speaker 1: was such a fun morning and it was just us
Speaker 1: doing their hair and everyone was excited and they were
Speaker 1: happy and it was getting and it was amazing. It
Speaker 1: was amazing, and they were like eating and drinking. We
Speaker 1: were doing champagne and we're like, wow, what if you
Speaker 1: guys like you're gonna win, We're gonna win. It's gonna happen.
Speaker 1: And then it did. And then that we saw the
Speaker 1: pictures and it was just what a great moment. It
Speaker 1: was like a victory for our little show that could
Speaker 1: really Yeah, I totally forgot about that. All the ladies
Speaker 1: came and the like literally in the trailer. In the trailer, Yeah,
Speaker 1: yeah they did. That's really good. And then things went
Speaker 1: well for a while, and then there was the strike. Yes,
Speaker 1: what are your memories of that time? Well, it was
Speaker 1: you know, everybody was like up in the air about
Speaker 1: whether we're going to have jobs or not. And uh,
Speaker 1: we we went down for what like well, yeah it did, um.
Speaker 1: But the first remember the first day we didn't want
Speaker 1: to cross because the writers were there literally the whole
Speaker 1: cast um as we were standing and I remember b J.
Speaker 1: You know, you had the fence right that we had,
Speaker 1: and he was on the other side of it, and
Speaker 1: I was like, I don't want to cross either. I'm
Speaker 1: union where He's like it's okay. I'm like, it's not okay.
Speaker 1: And I remember getting choked up, like I don't want
Speaker 1: to do this to you. You guys are my family,
Speaker 1: Like I don't want to pass. And he said no,
Speaker 1: look they're telling you to cross. And so we sat
Speaker 1: on the stage and just waited. We just waited because
Speaker 1: there was nothing else we could do. I think about
Speaker 1: six seven hours later, they said you can go home.
Speaker 1: I remember we went. I think that I never got
Speaker 1: in hair and makeup. I guess there were a couple
Speaker 1: of talking heads that were shot that could be shot,
Speaker 1: but it wasn't when there wasn't much no And I
Speaker 1: remember being there as well because at a certain point
Speaker 1: we weren't sure what was happening. Awkward, yeah, but you know,
Speaker 1: as a mom of two young kids and I was
Speaker 1: the person supporting my household, um, it was terrifying. But
Speaker 1: I will never forget Greg Daniels and his wife writing
Speaker 1: a check, remember that for a thousand dollars every thousand,
Speaker 1: every family, every family. I was floor because that made
Speaker 1: such a difference to my household. I went to the
Speaker 1: mail that day, and uh, you know, people were sending
Speaker 1: Christmas cards and stuff, and so I looked at the
Speaker 1: cards and then I saw this card from Craig Daniels.
Speaker 1: I'm going, oh, isn't that nice? And so I opened
Speaker 1: up the card and I'm reading and then I see
Speaker 1: this check And I didn't. I didn't really look at
Speaker 1: it really key nearly at first, you know, and I said, oh,
Speaker 1: how sweet. I thought it was a hundred dollars. I
Speaker 1: looked and then I started Catholic zeros and I said,
Speaker 1: oh my god, I'm telling you. I almost literally beat
Speaker 1: on myself. I was like, I was like, oh my god,
Speaker 1: I could not believe it. But I told that story
Speaker 1: to quite a few of my friends who worked on
Speaker 1: other shows, and they were like, are you kidding me?
Speaker 1: I said no, they I said, the producer and the actors,
Speaker 1: because you guys came after the strike was over, when
Speaker 1: we came back, and you gave us like two thousand
Speaker 1: dollars a piece to the whole crew. That was nunheard of.
Speaker 1: That was simply unheard of. It was such a blessing
Speaker 1: to all of us because many people had families like him,
Speaker 1: and they needed to know they had some sucks sort
Speaker 1: of security and what what they were gonna do. I mean,
Speaker 1: because other shows were down also, so this was such
Speaker 1: a blessing and because we were family. Yeah, at that point,
Speaker 1: we absolutely true. That's absolutely true. Yeah, you felt it.
Speaker 1: I mean, Greg, you know the caterers and what show
Speaker 1: has the same caterers for nine years? Eventually someone's like,
Speaker 1: we did, guys, we love it burn in a good way, right,
Speaker 1: But I mean he he didn't ever want to change
Speaker 1: it up. He had loyalty to everyone who was there.
Speaker 1: Yeah he did, Yeah, he did. Those guys were so good.
Speaker 1: We ate well. They us. They would even remember they
Speaker 1: would put up on our like if you they knew
Speaker 1: that you liked a certain things they made like a
Speaker 1: name of my breed or something. True. That's true, that's true.
Speaker 1: I still have pictures of those menus. That's true. That's right.
Speaker 1: And and we had the best craft service at Peter
Speaker 1: Peter got blessed, bless Yeah, you started talking about this
Speaker 1: a little before, but just how hair changed over over
Speaker 1: the course of the show, like specifically with Pam or
Speaker 1: with Kelly. What were the decisions that were made. Were
Speaker 1: you softening Pam or what happened? It depended on what
Speaker 1: episode we were doing. Again, originally, in the beginning, they
Speaker 1: were supposed to be very simple, very plain, you know,
Speaker 1: regular day people. But as some people became producers of
Speaker 1: the show, then they had an actual say more in
Speaker 1: what I could do for them. So, um, you'll see
Speaker 1: the evolution of Pam's hair for instance, where she was
Speaker 1: very kind of messy and it was a scrunchy thing
Speaker 1: and kind of pulled back right and she had that
Speaker 1: clip in all the time, and then and then literally
Speaker 1: in season two and I remember her talking about this
Speaker 1: because I listened to her podcast, but she said, you know,
Speaker 1: Kim was so happy for the first time ever she
Speaker 1: was able to have all of her hair down, which
Speaker 1: was true because we had had it, you know, in
Speaker 1: a clip with the scrunchy and it was just and
Speaker 1: she has this natural curl and we got to kind
Speaker 1: of smooth it out and make it a little more
Speaker 1: fun and a little more designed. And the same thing
Speaker 1: with Angela. You know, originally her character was she's supposed
Speaker 1: to be very severe, She's very uptight. She doesn't really
Speaker 1: care as much. She just wants you know, she's all business.
Speaker 1: So that was true in the first few but then
Speaker 1: as that evolved as well, then she had her hair
Speaker 1: in a ponytail and then sometimes she'd have it down
Speaker 1: and I did the Angela braid on her, which was
Speaker 1: really fun, and that little headband braid, and and so
Speaker 1: she got to be a little softer, but also her
Speaker 1: character was softening. So I think it kind of played
Speaker 1: with how they you know, what their direction was, as
Speaker 1: they're falling in love with different people, or their meeting
Speaker 1: new people, or kind of that course of it just
Speaker 1: going forward. But um, and the same thing with Steve
Speaker 1: when I first met him and we changed his hair
Speaker 1: immediately and he was really on board too, so that
Speaker 1: kind of stayed and he kind of kept that same
Speaker 1: look for him the whole time. But again there were
Speaker 1: a lot of hair gags. There was gum and his hair.
Speaker 1: I remember that day I had to peanut butter on
Speaker 1: my hands for twelve hours and it was just insane. So,
Speaker 1: you know, every gag had its thing, And even the
Speaker 1: big thing with with Kate and having her head shaved,
Speaker 1: that was four weeks of prep for me because I
Speaker 1: had to plan you know, she needed to be bald,
Speaker 1: so we needed a specialist and then he ended up,
Speaker 1: you know, doing the ball cap for her. But I
Speaker 1: had to build hair pieces for her, and we had
Speaker 1: to do tests, and we had to do another test
Speaker 1: and then a third test and then remember you guys
Speaker 1: were like grabbing the hair, and you know, I had
Speaker 1: to teacher, and I had to shave um. I had
Speaker 1: to get a certain clipper, and then I had to
Speaker 1: modify the clipper just so it wouldn't tear if she
Speaker 1: was pushing it back because it was so thin. You
Speaker 1: have to make sure it's not going to tear. Like
Speaker 1: there was so many variables to that. It was four
Speaker 1: weeks of prep just for that gag. But everybody thought
Speaker 1: she actually shaved her head, which it was pretty great,
Speaker 1: pretty great, and and and Kate, it's really healthy and
Speaker 1: so much, so much to make that flat. It took
Speaker 1: me forty five minutes to do the actual rap to
Speaker 1: get her head underneath. And then yeah, it was a lot,
Speaker 1: which was fun. Though I loved that stuff. I love
Speaker 1: that Greg would challenge me and he was happy each time,
Speaker 1: which was great. So, right, was there ever any discussion
Speaker 1: about Pam's hair changing based on where she was with
Speaker 1: her relationship with Jim. Yes, yes, absolutely about that, as
Speaker 1: she was kind of they were kind of falling for
Speaker 1: each other. She got a lot more saw after, so
Speaker 1: we did. We got rid of all her natural curl
Speaker 1: and we started doing like blow drives, and then we
Speaker 1: started doing curls and waves and something very soft because
Speaker 1: she was kind of falling in love with this person
Speaker 1: and same thing for him, so it definitely changed for
Speaker 1: her at that point. Right, Um, so did you leave
Speaker 1: before the end? I sadly did a few days. Um,
Speaker 1: because as the show was ending, right, Greg kept adding
Speaker 1: and then he added another week, and then he added
Speaker 1: another week. And what I had set up was that
Speaker 1: I was going to be going to show Pretty Little
Speaker 1: Liars actually, and I had gotten that job, but it
Speaker 1: was literally like a month and a half away. So
Speaker 1: I thought, well, fine, I'll take a little time off,
Speaker 1: you know, and then I'll just top on this other show.
Speaker 1: And then he like booked another week and I'm like, well,
Speaker 1: and I even told production too, I you know, this
Speaker 1: is getting nervous, because then it pushed again and I
Speaker 1: was like, wow, this is really getting close, and I'm
Speaker 1: a little nervous, but they're like, no, no, no, it's
Speaker 1: never going to go over that. And then I remember
Speaker 1: literally the Sunday night that we were wrapping or I wrapped,
Speaker 1: we still had a couple more days. It's like three
Speaker 1: more days or something. I think you did. I don't remember,
Speaker 1: but um, I was devastated because I really wanted to
Speaker 1: be there. That was my show. I lived that show
Speaker 1: for ten years basically, you know, on and off, with
Speaker 1: the seasons that we would go down a little bit. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it was really hard for me to not be there
Speaker 1: those last few days, and I know that it was
Speaker 1: a whole thing with everyone there and everyone came back,
Speaker 1: and I felt really left out. I'm not gonna lie.
Speaker 1: It was sad. Oh yeah, yeah, because that was I mean,
Speaker 1: I lived that show for so long and it was
Speaker 1: all of my friends, and I wish I could have
Speaker 1: been there. I know, Debbie took over and she ran it,
Speaker 1: you know, those last few days, and I knew she
Speaker 1: would do a great job. But it was really hard
Speaker 1: because I then, you know, started Sunday night, I rapped,
Speaker 1: I think it was like twelve thirty at night, and
Speaker 1: then Monday morning, I went in at seven am to
Speaker 1: load into the next trailer and worked you know that
Speaker 1: week as a prep week, and then went right into
Speaker 1: that show. So I didn't get a break. But I
Speaker 1: really hate that I missed those last few days. But
Speaker 1: they would sendny pictures and they were communicating, Yeah, it awesomething.
Speaker 1: I mean to see a show that you've been with
Speaker 1: all that many years and your baby, it was your baby. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean we were there from the beginning and uh,
Speaker 1: you know, people came, people went, but we were still
Speaker 1: there and to see it all come to an end
Speaker 1: that it was just kind of heart wrenching. It. Yeah,
Speaker 1: my kids would come and visit and I had that
Speaker 1: picnic table in the back, if you remember, because I
Speaker 1: would just want to sit with them privately, and every
Speaker 1: time all the actors and more, I'm like, no, no, no, no,
Speaker 1: you don't you know, like they would come up, they
Speaker 1: would pick up the kids, they would take them to
Speaker 1: craft service and it was so sweet, Like it was
Speaker 1: such a great I don't know if you'll ever have
Speaker 1: another show like that. I really I don't know, do you.
Speaker 1: I mean, it was such a different show than any
Speaker 1: thing I've ever been on. Right, and I still am
Speaker 1: in touch with Angelot. You know, I'm hopefully going to
Speaker 1: go to their podcast and hang with them for a minute.
Speaker 1: But you know, it was so nice to see Creed
Speaker 1: in Vegas. And then I've I've seen Kate doing some
Speaker 1: shows and I was still in touch and still there.
Speaker 1: You know, Um, I did this crazy show for Hulu Housewives,
Speaker 1: yeah and the kidding, and I went and uh, they
Speaker 1: were telling me who was going to be on it,
Speaker 1: and I saw Angela and so I said, well, you know,
Speaker 1: we're not going to tell it until we had to
Speaker 1: meet with the actors. And so when I walked in
Speaker 1: her face just lit day and we hugged each other,
Speaker 1: it was just wonderful. She said, I didn't know you
Speaker 1: were going to be here. It was a good surprise,
Speaker 1: and so we were able to you know, work everything out.
Speaker 1: It was just you know, like a home week. It's great.
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh. I um, yeah, it's just to me,
Speaker 1: it's crazy like these I mean, ordinary is a nice
Speaker 1: way to say it, but a lot of ordinary looking
Speaker 1: people on this show, middle aged office workers. Even though
Speaker 1: the characters are universal. The fact that so many kids
Speaker 1: are into it now, my kids are into this show, now,
Speaker 1: you know how weird. That is for me. They love
Speaker 1: Effort has a Dunder Mifflin shirt, he has Dunder mid
Speaker 1: Flynn pants, like he says, Oh my god, all my
Speaker 1: friends and they love that show. Like you know, it
Speaker 1: makes me kind of cool. Yes, you are how old?
Speaker 1: He's fifteen and he's that's were now Connor just passed me.
Speaker 1: It's not baby. They were yeah, they were tiny. Do
Speaker 1: they remember anything about being there? They remember craft service? Okay, right,
Speaker 1: well that makes sense. Yeah, that's where they can get
Speaker 1: All my friends. Teenagers and young adults are into it,
Speaker 1: all of them. Yeah. Yeah, And you're like you said,
Speaker 1: if you wear anything that has like my jacket or
Speaker 1: I have my chat onto something, people walk out there
Speaker 1: like right on. You know, yeah, they stopped you and stuff.
Speaker 1: I remember we did the thing out and uh we
Speaker 1: were at the country club somewhere West l As. It
Speaker 1: was a golf thing, okay, yes, remember remember yes, yes,
Speaker 1: And so we were going back and forth and they
Speaker 1: were huge crowds of young people, teenagers that were like
Speaker 1: so excited about the show. Yeah yeah, even then young
Speaker 1: It appeals to ye the parents though, and yeah, I
Speaker 1: think it appears that it appeals I'm telling you from
Speaker 1: thirteen on up? Is your thirteen year old into it
Speaker 1: or more than sixteen? Um, he was watching it for
Speaker 1: a while, but then he's kind of switched into his
Speaker 1: mother stuff, so he goes back to it. But yeah,
Speaker 1: EVERT was excited that he um, yeah, that he has
Speaker 1: stuff from the show, and yeah, it's kind of cool. Yeah. Six. Four,
Speaker 1: I know. Four. Let me let me ask you one
Speaker 1: more question. What five? Why would you choose to work
Speaker 1: in film and television as opposed to like a salon? Okay,
Speaker 1: I can tell you what it is for me. Um,
Speaker 1: As a little girl, I used to watch television and
Speaker 1: old movies. I loved old movies, you know, Clark Gable,
Speaker 1: Myrna Lloyd, whoever, Gary Cooper, Sydney Port Geane, Kelly, Freda Stair, Oh,
Speaker 1: my god, Rosny Russell. So it was just a dream
Speaker 1: of mine, and I guess I as I grew up,
Speaker 1: and I just started realizing what God gave me as
Speaker 1: a gift, which was was doing here. I did. My
Speaker 1: mother would give me dollars every year and m by
Speaker 1: the time they ended, she get up Christmas, by the
Speaker 1: time June came, they were balled here because I curled
Speaker 1: him and twisted them. And so I guess when I
Speaker 1: came out here, it was a goal of mine to
Speaker 1: get into film and television. That wasn't an easy thing,
Speaker 1: but um, I just kept pursuing and um, but it
Speaker 1: wasn't my timing, it was God's timing. And uh, one
Speaker 1: day he opened up a door for me and I
Speaker 1: went through and oh my god, it's just been wonderful.
Speaker 1: But I wanted to work, and so and I worked
Speaker 1: in the salon. I had a very sccessful career in
Speaker 1: the salon. When I got ready to leave, my clients
Speaker 1: were like, what you leave in me? You know? I
Speaker 1: knew a platform artists to write a platform artists. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I work for Revalon for many years and so I
Speaker 1: had different phases of the beauty industry. But this was
Speaker 1: and is my favorite. Yeah. I I've been um blessed
Speaker 1: to work on some really great shows, meet some really
Speaker 1: good people. This one here, now, I just gotta say
Speaker 1: how much I love and care about her. Um. Oh,
Speaker 1: I know what you're gonna say when we started this show,
Speaker 1: and you're gonna excuse me we started the show. Um,
Speaker 1: I was diagnosed with breast cancer and I told Kimmy
Speaker 1: I said, Kim, I know that you know you you
Speaker 1: need to have some money that's going to be around
Speaker 1: and help you and do and all. And um, you
Speaker 1: know I'm gonna have to go and take care of this.
Speaker 1: And I appreciate you let me work with you so far,
Speaker 1: but I know you're gonna need to get somebody else.
Speaker 1: And she said to me, Debbie Pierce, I will not
Speaker 1: let you go. That's because you're gonna need those hours
Speaker 1: and you're going to need that to get through this.
Speaker 1: So I will cover your shift every night, and you
Speaker 1: will go to therapy and you will take care of
Speaker 1: yourself so you survive this. And I will do anything
Speaker 1: you need. And she did. She brought in some people
Speaker 1: temporarily to help. And then I, um, I went all
Speaker 1: you guys, all guys, she wouldn't let me quit. Um.
Speaker 1: I went UH through treatment for two and a half months.
Speaker 1: I left every day after after touch ups at two
Speaker 1: and I went to UH Daniel Freeman which is no
Speaker 1: more at in l A meeting Inglewood, and I took
Speaker 1: my treatment. I had my surgery and took my treatment
Speaker 1: and I came back to work. And you guys, you
Speaker 1: know we're so kind and loving to me, and I
Speaker 1: appreciate that so much to this day. I I just
Speaker 1: love this one. Yeah, and you're still here kicking at girls.
Speaker 1: Yeah we did the right thing. Yeah we did well.
Speaker 1: How does it feel knowing you were a little girl
Speaker 1: watching Clark Gable and fred As Stare and you grew
Speaker 1: up and became an important part of television history yourself? Brian,
Speaker 1: I can't tell you, um, what a feeling that is. Um.
Speaker 1: The last two years eighteen and nineteen, I worked on
Speaker 1: a couple of projects that were nominated for Emmies, and
Speaker 1: I got nominated um along with those projects, and I
Speaker 1: I was just floored because here's this little black girl
Speaker 1: from Younger's New York who watched all those people on
Speaker 1: the movies and television and everything, and now I have
Speaker 1: an opportunity two be in that arena and do the work.
Speaker 1: I was honored. I was thrilled. I was humbled. I
Speaker 1: was thanking my God that I was able to I
Speaker 1: have this opportunity to do what I love to do.
Speaker 1: It was amazing. It was amazing. So I I'm and
Speaker 1: I'm still in awe. You know. I worked on a
Speaker 1: thing that a couple of weeks ago they were doing
Speaker 1: a thing called Perry Amazing. Oh yeah, they're doing a
Speaker 1: Pary Amazing, which is a period they're doing it when
Speaker 1: he was a young lawyer. Yeah, it was very cool
Speaker 1: they did it. We did the thirties and all. So
Speaker 1: that was wonderful for me. And that was the great
Speaker 1: thing about um, you know, having opportunities to go back
Speaker 1: and do periods that you grew up seeing. It's just
Speaker 1: fun here to do, you know. And even when we
Speaker 1: did stuff on the show, doing different wigs and stuff
Speaker 1: to uh, you know whatever characters, and we did Farrell, Um,
Speaker 1: Will Farrell, we had we did Will Ferrell and uh
Speaker 1: you remember Fredis Stair but not Will Ferrell. Sorry, Will
Speaker 1: no lovely man. It's such a lovely man. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: we did. We did uh we did some fun things
Speaker 1: Phyllis's wedding. Yeah, what are you What are you most
Speaker 1: proud of? Honestly, I would say the Office, I really would.
Speaker 1: It was such a great show. It was It seemed
Speaker 1: in the beginning we had so many challenges and it
Speaker 1: just wasn't going to go, but we stuck with it
Speaker 1: and then it just like slowly got this falling And
Speaker 1: actually I remember, um and I've said this to other people.
Speaker 1: Remember when you guys had my Space where before Facebook,
Speaker 1: they all went out and I remember, like Jenna and Johnny,
Speaker 1: like all of you, We're going and saying, you know,
Speaker 1: we want to be on Carson and we want to
Speaker 1: go on these shows. And you put yourself out there.
Speaker 1: And I feel sincerely that that's what saved the show
Speaker 1: because you were, you know, in a in a time
Speaker 1: where we didn't have I mean, social media how it
Speaker 1: is today is crazy, but back then you were physically
Speaker 1: going to shows, you were going on my Space. You
Speaker 1: understood that we could reach more people, and I think
Speaker 1: that helped float it and then it turned it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean we were definitely so we were struggling so
Speaker 1: much and we all felt like it could end at
Speaker 1: any moment. Yeah, there was a very active campaign by
Speaker 1: the actors to say, like, let's see if we can
Speaker 1: keep this going a little bit longer, just because we
Speaker 1: felt like it was. It was, it was a good
Speaker 1: show and it was worth it. You put in the work,
Speaker 1: You actually put in the work, and that's what turned
Speaker 1: everything around. Yeah, it did, it really did. And I think, yes,
Speaker 1: like I said, season two, I think it found it
Speaker 1: the footing of it and it kind of excelled, and
Speaker 1: it just it took on a life of its own,
Speaker 1: and I think that's really what held it together. And
Speaker 1: I knew they within a few weeks were like, yeah,
Speaker 1: I really did. And it just went forever, which was awesome.
Speaker 1: So it was nice to have that long of a
Speaker 1: run and through the whole process to what was cool
Speaker 1: is that people are getting married, people are buying cars
Speaker 1: for the first time, people are buying house and you know,
Speaker 1: so it kind of it was such a cool thing
Speaker 1: to see everybody, you know, moving into different stages of
Speaker 1: what of life. Yeah yeah, I mean whole thirties was
Speaker 1: spent there. Oh wow, yes, I mean that's that's a decade.
Speaker 1: It was a decade of our lives. Yeah, yeah, it was.
Speaker 1: That's why it's so sentimental and it's so it meant
Speaker 1: so much, such a great show. Yeah. Well, um, thank
Speaker 1: you guys so much for coming to talk to me
Speaker 1: so much. It's so good to see. It's so good
Speaker 1: to see you. I will get your hairpiece to you
Speaker 1: and we'll just try it on someday. You know. I
Speaker 1: just wore a really really bad one for the first
Speaker 1: time since then, like a really bad yes, I mean
Speaker 1: it was sort of intentionally it was. It was a
Speaker 1: movie that took place in the eighties, and it had
Speaker 1: kind of a what is it Jimmy swagger, like jim
Speaker 1: Baker Baker kind of. They showed me a picture of
Speaker 1: the idea which was like kind us Sam Donaldson with
Speaker 1: that like strong, strong with the hair. Yeah, so it
Speaker 1: wasn't necessarily supposed to look good. I don't know. I
Speaker 1: haven't seen the dailies. We'll see if it if that works,
Speaker 1: if it works like somewhat believably because there's yeah, but yeah,
Speaker 1: it comes off later in the movie. Yeah. Um, thanks
Speaker 1: you guys. Oh my god, the three of us, can
Speaker 1: we get a photo of me? And Oh my gosh,
Speaker 1: good to see you. Oh how much fun did I have?
Speaker 1: Debbie and Kim. Thank you so much for joining me.
Speaker 1: I really enjoyed talking to you. And let me just say,
Speaker 1: I am so glad that you decided to join the
Speaker 1: TV biz and leave your beauty salons. I don't know
Speaker 1: what we would have done without you and listeners. I
Speaker 1: don't know what we would do without you, so thank
Speaker 1: you so much for listening. You know, if a tree
Speaker 1: falls in the woods and no one listens. Did we
Speaker 1: make this podcast? I don't know, but I hope you
Speaker 1: have a magnificent week and I am going to see
Speaker 1: you next time for another episode of the Office Deep Dive.
Speaker 1: The Office Deep Dive is hosted and executive produced by
Speaker 1: me Brian baum Gartner, alongside our executive producer Langley. Our
Speaker 1: senior producer is Tessa Kramer. Our producers are Diego Tapia
Speaker 1: and Liz Hayes. My main man in the booth is
Speaker 1: Alec Moore. Our theme song Bubble and Squeak, performed by
Speaker 1: my great friend Creed Bratton, and the episode was mixed
Speaker 1: by Seth Olandsky.