1 00:00:00,680 --> 00:00:03,680 Speaker 1: You and Me Both is a production of I Heart Radio. 2 00:00:06,040 --> 00:00:08,959 Speaker 1: I'm Hillary Clinton and this is You and Me Both. 3 00:00:09,840 --> 00:00:12,119 Speaker 1: You know, when you're well known for doing one thing, 4 00:00:12,400 --> 00:00:15,720 Speaker 1: it's not always easy to put yourself out there and 5 00:00:16,040 --> 00:00:20,120 Speaker 1: try something else. Stay in your lane, people tell you, 6 00:00:20,200 --> 00:00:24,360 Speaker 1: and yeah, look, I've heard that more than a few times. 7 00:00:24,400 --> 00:00:27,560 Speaker 1: Certainly when I was first lady working on healthcare, or 8 00:00:28,240 --> 00:00:31,280 Speaker 1: when I decided to run for the Senate myself. No 9 00:00:31,400 --> 00:00:34,839 Speaker 1: first lady had ever done that before. Even writing a 10 00:00:35,320 --> 00:00:39,360 Speaker 1: political thriller with my friend Louise Penny, or becoming a 11 00:00:39,360 --> 00:00:44,440 Speaker 1: podcast host. All of those things ruffled some feathers of 12 00:00:44,479 --> 00:00:49,000 Speaker 1: those who didn't think I was in the right lane. Well, 13 00:00:49,080 --> 00:00:53,360 Speaker 1: today I'm talking with two incredible women who did switch 14 00:00:53,440 --> 00:00:59,280 Speaker 1: gears and change lanes in their lives and careers. Later 15 00:00:59,360 --> 00:01:04,280 Speaker 1: we'll hear actor, singer, author, advocate and former Miss America 16 00:01:04,520 --> 00:01:09,080 Speaker 1: Vanessa Williams. But to start and rite in time for 17 00:01:09,120 --> 00:01:13,560 Speaker 1: the Winter Olympics, I'm talking to track and field superstar 18 00:01:13,760 --> 00:01:18,880 Speaker 1: Alison Felix. Last summer in Tokyo, Allison competed in her 19 00:01:19,080 --> 00:01:23,360 Speaker 1: fifth Olympic Games, where she won two medals, making her 20 00:01:23,520 --> 00:01:29,039 Speaker 1: the most decorated American track and field athlete in Olympic 21 00:01:29,400 --> 00:01:35,560 Speaker 1: history with nineteen medals total. She's also the most decorated 22 00:01:35,720 --> 00:01:43,319 Speaker 1: athlete regardless of gender in World Athletics championship history. Wow. 23 00:01:43,880 --> 00:01:47,320 Speaker 1: Allison announced that those Olympics were her last, but at 24 00:01:47,360 --> 00:01:51,800 Speaker 1: age thirty five, she is not slowing down. In addition 25 00:01:51,920 --> 00:01:57,160 Speaker 1: to her incredible athletic achievements, Allison also started Safe, a 26 00:01:57,280 --> 00:02:01,320 Speaker 1: woman's lifestyle sneaker company, and she wore the shoes when 27 00:02:01,320 --> 00:02:05,760 Speaker 1: she competed last summer. She's also switched gears to become 28 00:02:05,880 --> 00:02:10,720 Speaker 1: a vocal advocate for black maternal health and for women athletes. 29 00:02:10,840 --> 00:02:15,040 Speaker 1: After experiencing trauma with the birth of her daughter, Cammy, 30 00:02:15,280 --> 00:02:18,920 Speaker 1: who's now three. I was so delighted to have the 31 00:02:19,000 --> 00:02:24,200 Speaker 1: chance to speak with her for this podcast. Hi, Hi, 32 00:02:24,320 --> 00:02:28,640 Speaker 1: how are you? Oh? I'm great, And I gotta start 33 00:02:28,639 --> 00:02:31,880 Speaker 1: by saying, how is that adorable daughter of yours? He 34 00:02:32,080 --> 00:02:36,040 Speaker 1: is doing well. She is thriving, happy three year old, 35 00:02:36,200 --> 00:02:39,160 Speaker 1: running all over the place, keeping me super busy. Um 36 00:02:39,440 --> 00:02:43,200 Speaker 1: and yeah, life with her, it's going great. You know, 37 00:02:43,280 --> 00:02:46,400 Speaker 1: you've done so many amazing things. I want to go 38 00:02:46,560 --> 00:02:50,800 Speaker 1: back though, to the early days, because I read recently 39 00:02:51,040 --> 00:02:55,280 Speaker 1: that you didn't actually start running track until you were 40 00:02:55,280 --> 00:02:58,760 Speaker 1: in ninth grade, which you know it's really young, but 41 00:02:58,919 --> 00:03:02,079 Speaker 1: still you know, a little bit later than some. And 42 00:03:02,520 --> 00:03:05,400 Speaker 1: how did you get into it? What motivated you to 43 00:03:06,360 --> 00:03:08,920 Speaker 1: actually get out there and start to run? What kind 44 00:03:08,919 --> 00:03:11,359 Speaker 1: of kid were you? Well? I was a really active 45 00:03:11,440 --> 00:03:14,280 Speaker 1: kid in like my neighborhood and my community, and my 46 00:03:14,360 --> 00:03:16,720 Speaker 1: parents did an awesome job of keeping us really busy. 47 00:03:17,120 --> 00:03:19,640 Speaker 1: But it wasn't until high school that I actually found track. 48 00:03:19,680 --> 00:03:22,120 Speaker 1: And you're absolutely right as a as a runner and 49 00:03:22,280 --> 00:03:25,600 Speaker 1: for an Olympian, that is a later start. And I 50 00:03:25,720 --> 00:03:27,760 Speaker 1: kind of just stumbled into it, you know. I was 51 00:03:27,760 --> 00:03:29,520 Speaker 1: going to high school and so I was brand new 52 00:03:29,560 --> 00:03:34,040 Speaker 1: school and I didn't know anybody, and my family encouraged 53 00:03:34,080 --> 00:03:35,760 Speaker 1: me to go out for the track team. Um My 54 00:03:35,800 --> 00:03:37,920 Speaker 1: brother was at a different school and he was running 55 00:03:37,960 --> 00:03:41,000 Speaker 1: track and he was doing really well, and so they thought, 56 00:03:41,080 --> 00:03:44,240 Speaker 1: you know, might have some potential there. And so I 57 00:03:44,520 --> 00:03:47,440 Speaker 1: went out to meet friends and I did. I met 58 00:03:47,480 --> 00:03:50,160 Speaker 1: my best girlfriends that you know are still that to 59 00:03:50,240 --> 00:03:52,960 Speaker 1: this day. But I also found the sport and I 60 00:03:53,000 --> 00:03:55,440 Speaker 1: fell in love with it and I am like this, 61 00:03:55,440 --> 00:03:57,800 Speaker 1: this was my thing. You know, the thrill of competition 62 00:03:57,960 --> 00:04:00,720 Speaker 1: and you know, just having a sensible longing and it 63 00:04:00,760 --> 00:04:03,840 Speaker 1: taught me so many lessons and so I'm so grateful 64 00:04:03,880 --> 00:04:06,960 Speaker 1: that I did find it. You know, that word belonging 65 00:04:07,160 --> 00:04:10,200 Speaker 1: is one that I've been thinking a lot about. Everybody 66 00:04:10,560 --> 00:04:16,280 Speaker 1: has to have some place or people or passion that 67 00:04:16,360 --> 00:04:20,840 Speaker 1: they feel gives them that sense of belonging well. And 68 00:04:20,880 --> 00:04:24,880 Speaker 1: then two thousand three, Track and Field News named you 69 00:04:25,560 --> 00:04:29,760 Speaker 1: the high school Athlete of the Year. Yeah, what did 70 00:04:29,800 --> 00:04:32,400 Speaker 1: that feel like? You know, it was kind of surreal 71 00:04:32,600 --> 00:04:34,880 Speaker 1: because it was like I had just started running, you know, 72 00:04:35,000 --> 00:04:39,120 Speaker 1: a couple of years prior, and here things are happening quickly. 73 00:04:39,240 --> 00:04:40,919 Speaker 1: And I felt like it was a kind of a 74 00:04:40,920 --> 00:04:45,400 Speaker 1: turning point at that time because that's when I heard like, oh, 75 00:04:45,480 --> 00:04:48,680 Speaker 1: you know, the Olympics are the next year, and I 76 00:04:48,800 --> 00:04:50,800 Speaker 1: was like, is that a possibility for me? You know, 77 00:04:50,960 --> 00:04:53,360 Speaker 1: like it's I didn't realize that, you know, you could 78 00:04:53,400 --> 00:04:55,680 Speaker 1: go to the Olympics, you could make a career, you know, 79 00:04:55,720 --> 00:04:57,400 Speaker 1: out of being a runner. And so it was kind 80 00:04:57,440 --> 00:05:00,159 Speaker 1: of like a whole new world was open for me. 81 00:05:01,000 --> 00:05:03,880 Speaker 1: And who did you turn to for advice? So here 82 00:05:03,920 --> 00:05:06,800 Speaker 1: you are, Uh, You're getting named high school athlete of 83 00:05:06,839 --> 00:05:08,719 Speaker 1: the Year, and somebody says well, you know, the Olympics 84 00:05:08,720 --> 00:05:10,960 Speaker 1: are next year. How did you think that through? That's 85 00:05:11,000 --> 00:05:13,640 Speaker 1: such a big decision for a teenager, it is. It 86 00:05:13,760 --> 00:05:17,559 Speaker 1: was huge, and I'm so grateful because my parents, although 87 00:05:17,600 --> 00:05:20,240 Speaker 1: they didn't know anything about the sport um, they were 88 00:05:20,240 --> 00:05:22,320 Speaker 1: really committed to me and they were present. And I 89 00:05:22,320 --> 00:05:25,600 Speaker 1: always tell you know, parents who are involved with their 90 00:05:25,680 --> 00:05:27,760 Speaker 1: kids in sports, you know, the best way you can 91 00:05:27,760 --> 00:05:29,960 Speaker 1: support them is to show up. You know, you don't 92 00:05:30,000 --> 00:05:32,760 Speaker 1: have to be this super hard on your kids to 93 00:05:33,120 --> 00:05:35,840 Speaker 1: specialize and do all these things. But my parents, you know, 94 00:05:35,880 --> 00:05:37,880 Speaker 1: no matter if it was a really small meat or 95 00:05:37,920 --> 00:05:40,120 Speaker 1: a big one, they were there. So when it came 96 00:05:40,160 --> 00:05:43,200 Speaker 1: time to make a lot of decisions or think about 97 00:05:43,320 --> 00:05:46,719 Speaker 1: the future, they were the typical parents that really thought 98 00:05:46,760 --> 00:05:49,520 Speaker 1: things through, and we talked to people we knew, and 99 00:05:49,600 --> 00:05:52,159 Speaker 1: we tried to understand what was going on. But I 100 00:05:52,200 --> 00:05:54,960 Speaker 1: think the biggest thing was that I had that support system, 101 00:05:55,000 --> 00:05:57,359 Speaker 1: and I had them in my corner, you know, and 102 00:05:57,400 --> 00:05:59,720 Speaker 1: I could lean on them. And so you tried out 103 00:05:59,760 --> 00:06:03,600 Speaker 1: for the Olympics, you made the American team and mettled 104 00:06:04,000 --> 00:06:08,080 Speaker 1: in the two thousand for Olympics. Obviously, I'm talking to 105 00:06:08,080 --> 00:06:11,760 Speaker 1: you now when you are the most highly decorated metal 106 00:06:12,360 --> 00:06:15,919 Speaker 1: Olympic athlete and track and field ever. But what was 107 00:06:15,960 --> 00:06:19,760 Speaker 1: that first time like going to the Olympics. Oh my gosh, 108 00:06:19,800 --> 00:06:22,839 Speaker 1: everything was so new and exciting. I remember walking and 109 00:06:22,960 --> 00:06:27,200 Speaker 1: opening ceremonies, and I was meeting people that had idolized, 110 00:06:27,200 --> 00:06:30,280 Speaker 1: you know, growing up, and it just felt like a dream, 111 00:06:30,400 --> 00:06:33,880 Speaker 1: you know, and a bit overwhelming. But at the same time, 112 00:06:33,960 --> 00:06:36,320 Speaker 1: I think it lit a fire for me. It was like, Wow, 113 00:06:36,320 --> 00:06:38,840 Speaker 1: this is what the Olympics are about, and if I 114 00:06:38,880 --> 00:06:41,159 Speaker 1: really want to get to the next level and be 115 00:06:41,279 --> 00:06:43,880 Speaker 1: successful on the stage, it's going to require a lot 116 00:06:43,880 --> 00:06:50,159 Speaker 1: of dedication, a lot of sacrifice. We're taking a quick break. 117 00:06:50,360 --> 00:07:04,440 Speaker 1: Stay with us. You've also suffered setbacks in your career. 118 00:07:04,680 --> 00:07:08,080 Speaker 1: You know, in you you tore your hamstring. You couldn't 119 00:07:08,080 --> 00:07:10,440 Speaker 1: compete for I think it was like nine or ten months, 120 00:07:10,520 --> 00:07:14,880 Speaker 1: right and then right before the Summer Olympics you sprained 121 00:07:14,920 --> 00:07:17,560 Speaker 1: your ankle. But you still competed and you still want 122 00:07:17,600 --> 00:07:21,280 Speaker 1: two gold medals. By the way, what's it like for 123 00:07:21,400 --> 00:07:25,720 Speaker 1: a world class athlete to have an injury? What's it 124 00:07:25,800 --> 00:07:28,480 Speaker 1: feel like for you when you do something like tear 125 00:07:28,520 --> 00:07:31,040 Speaker 1: your hamstring? Yeah, it's really challenging, And I think the 126 00:07:31,080 --> 00:07:34,080 Speaker 1: hardest part is that you know what your body is 127 00:07:34,120 --> 00:07:36,560 Speaker 1: capable of doing. You know, this is a lifestyle, and 128 00:07:36,640 --> 00:07:39,400 Speaker 1: you train day in and day out for hours and hours, 129 00:07:39,520 --> 00:07:43,040 Speaker 1: and so when it feels like your body betrays you 130 00:07:43,600 --> 00:07:45,560 Speaker 1: and you try to do something that you used to 131 00:07:45,600 --> 00:07:48,880 Speaker 1: do and not give a second thought, it's really challenging, 132 00:07:48,960 --> 00:07:50,840 Speaker 1: you know, and then it takes you back to kind 133 00:07:50,840 --> 00:07:53,239 Speaker 1: of square one. You have to do all the tedious things. 134 00:07:53,320 --> 00:07:56,760 Speaker 1: You have to step away from the competition, and it's 135 00:07:56,800 --> 00:07:59,640 Speaker 1: when no one is kind of seeing what's going into it, 136 00:07:59,680 --> 00:08:01,800 Speaker 1: and no on is really cheering you on except your 137 00:08:01,840 --> 00:08:04,680 Speaker 1: your inner circle. So it really requires you to do 138 00:08:04,720 --> 00:08:06,560 Speaker 1: all the things and to take all the steps, and 139 00:08:06,600 --> 00:08:12,040 Speaker 1: so it's really challenging, especially at inopportune times. Before the Games, 140 00:08:12,080 --> 00:08:14,480 Speaker 1: I was trying to do something that very few people 141 00:08:14,520 --> 00:08:17,200 Speaker 1: have done and running the two hundred, running the four hundred, 142 00:08:17,240 --> 00:08:19,840 Speaker 1: and I felt like training was going amazing, and so 143 00:08:19,960 --> 00:08:23,800 Speaker 1: to have that setback right before it was time to 144 00:08:23,800 --> 00:08:26,080 Speaker 1: to get out there, it was it was really tough. 145 00:08:26,160 --> 00:08:28,960 Speaker 1: But I think, you know, you challenge yourself in new ways. 146 00:08:29,320 --> 00:08:31,280 Speaker 1: You know, it's about how can you pick up the 147 00:08:31,320 --> 00:08:34,360 Speaker 1: pieces when adversity hits and and what are you gonna 148 00:08:34,400 --> 00:08:36,960 Speaker 1: do with it? And sometimes I think it's more meaningful 149 00:08:37,080 --> 00:08:40,839 Speaker 1: to show people when it's not perfect and when it's 150 00:08:40,880 --> 00:08:44,240 Speaker 1: not pretty, you know how to get it done. Well. 151 00:08:44,760 --> 00:08:48,760 Speaker 1: You have done that, and you did it especially for 152 00:08:48,840 --> 00:08:55,160 Speaker 1: which I am incredibly grateful. Around your pregnancy, and first 153 00:08:55,200 --> 00:08:58,280 Speaker 1: of all, you had a really traumatic birth experience in 154 00:08:58,320 --> 00:09:02,679 Speaker 1: twenty nineteen when your daughter Cammy was born. You know, 155 00:09:02,760 --> 00:09:08,199 Speaker 1: I've been an advocate for maternal mortality, decreases, you better 156 00:09:08,280 --> 00:09:11,840 Speaker 1: birthing experiences, all of that, But it was a terrifying 157 00:09:11,960 --> 00:09:14,920 Speaker 1: time for you, wasn't it. Yeah. I first have to 158 00:09:14,960 --> 00:09:16,920 Speaker 1: just say thank you for all the work that you've 159 00:09:16,920 --> 00:09:20,960 Speaker 1: done on those areas. It's so important. It was terrifying 160 00:09:21,200 --> 00:09:23,440 Speaker 1: for me, you know, being an athlete, I think I 161 00:09:23,480 --> 00:09:26,440 Speaker 1: really took my health for granted. You know, I've always 162 00:09:26,520 --> 00:09:29,400 Speaker 1: been healthy and I've always known how to take care 163 00:09:29,400 --> 00:09:32,200 Speaker 1: of my body, and so when I became pregnant, I 164 00:09:32,240 --> 00:09:35,160 Speaker 1: didn't really give it too much thought. You know, I 165 00:09:35,520 --> 00:09:38,880 Speaker 1: kept training, I felt strong, I felt good, And it 166 00:09:38,920 --> 00:09:41,720 Speaker 1: was at thirty two weeks just going to a routine 167 00:09:42,040 --> 00:09:45,559 Speaker 1: doctor's appointment. Right away, it became very concerning I was 168 00:09:45,600 --> 00:09:48,240 Speaker 1: sent to the hospital for further monitoring, and it was 169 00:09:48,280 --> 00:09:51,240 Speaker 1: there that I was diagnosed with a severe case of preclampsia. 170 00:09:51,480 --> 00:09:55,000 Speaker 1: And never, in my wildest dreams what I think that 171 00:09:55,200 --> 00:09:58,560 Speaker 1: I would be at risk for a complicated pregnancy, or 172 00:09:58,600 --> 00:10:00,680 Speaker 1: that my life would be at risk or my child. 173 00:10:00,800 --> 00:10:03,960 Speaker 1: You know, I just didn't even comprehend that, and so 174 00:10:04,480 --> 00:10:07,240 Speaker 1: things started to spiral out of control and it got 175 00:10:07,280 --> 00:10:10,080 Speaker 1: really scary, and um, you know, as at risk of 176 00:10:10,120 --> 00:10:12,480 Speaker 1: having a stroke or losing my vision and all of 177 00:10:12,520 --> 00:10:15,160 Speaker 1: these things that it just didn't even make sense. I 178 00:10:15,200 --> 00:10:17,319 Speaker 1: had the birth plan of you know, I'm going to 179 00:10:17,400 --> 00:10:22,880 Speaker 1: have a natural, beautiful birth experience, and uh, nothing went 180 00:10:22,920 --> 00:10:25,960 Speaker 1: that way. I had an emergency C section, and you know, 181 00:10:26,000 --> 00:10:27,840 Speaker 1: I was in the hospital for quite a bit, and 182 00:10:28,040 --> 00:10:29,920 Speaker 1: my daughter spent a month in the nick. You and 183 00:10:30,320 --> 00:10:32,440 Speaker 1: it was just a really heavy time for us to 184 00:10:32,480 --> 00:10:36,800 Speaker 1: go through. You know, I'm so sorry that that you 185 00:10:36,840 --> 00:10:41,120 Speaker 1: had to go through that, and I'm incredibly thankful that 186 00:10:41,280 --> 00:10:44,200 Speaker 1: you came out healthy, your daughter came out healthy through 187 00:10:44,280 --> 00:10:49,040 Speaker 1: all of that trauma. But also during your pregnancy, you 188 00:10:49,440 --> 00:10:51,839 Speaker 1: tried not to let people know you were pregnant. I mean, 189 00:10:51,840 --> 00:10:55,600 Speaker 1: here you are an elite athlete, You're training, You're you're 190 00:10:55,600 --> 00:10:59,559 Speaker 1: still working hard every day. Um, what did that feel 191 00:10:59,559 --> 00:11:03,640 Speaker 1: like that you had to in effect hide your pregnancy. 192 00:11:04,120 --> 00:11:07,480 Speaker 1: It was the worst experience. I mean, you know, before 193 00:11:07,559 --> 00:11:11,720 Speaker 1: all of that traumatic birth experience happened. Yeah, I was 194 00:11:11,840 --> 00:11:14,600 Speaker 1: hiding my pregnancy. I was going through, you know, this 195 00:11:14,679 --> 00:11:19,120 Speaker 1: fight with Nike about maternal protections and contracts, and it 196 00:11:19,200 --> 00:11:22,600 Speaker 1: was just such a scary time because in sports, and 197 00:11:22,600 --> 00:11:25,320 Speaker 1: specifically track and field, there had been this culture of 198 00:11:25,360 --> 00:11:29,480 Speaker 1: silence around pregnancy and friends of mine, colleagues, they would 199 00:11:29,760 --> 00:11:32,640 Speaker 1: be pregnant and their contracts would either be paused or 200 00:11:33,080 --> 00:11:36,040 Speaker 1: they would be trying to secure a new contract and 201 00:11:36,120 --> 00:11:37,880 Speaker 1: you know, hide their pregnancy. And so that was kind 202 00:11:37,880 --> 00:11:40,160 Speaker 1: of my situation. I didn't have the offer on the table. 203 00:11:40,280 --> 00:11:43,160 Speaker 1: I knew what had happened in the past, and so 204 00:11:43,200 --> 00:11:46,040 Speaker 1: I was literally training four o'clock in the morning while 205 00:11:46,040 --> 00:11:50,439 Speaker 1: it was still dark. And it just breaks my heart. Yeah, 206 00:11:50,640 --> 00:11:53,480 Speaker 1: this time that should have been so happy and beautiful 207 00:11:53,720 --> 00:11:57,960 Speaker 1: was really lonely and isolating. And I look back on 208 00:11:58,000 --> 00:12:01,360 Speaker 1: it and it does bring me sadness to to know 209 00:12:01,480 --> 00:12:05,800 Speaker 1: that that was the situation. I mean, what an horrible, 210 00:12:06,040 --> 00:12:11,960 Speaker 1: outdated unfair caricature of pregnant women. I mean, it just 211 00:12:12,559 --> 00:12:15,959 Speaker 1: drives me crazy hearing about it, you know, these years later. 212 00:12:16,559 --> 00:12:19,360 Speaker 1: But you've said that before all this happened, that you know, 213 00:12:19,480 --> 00:12:22,840 Speaker 1: you avoided speaking out on issues that mattered you. Know, 214 00:12:22,920 --> 00:12:26,400 Speaker 1: you were an athlete. Your your accomplishments, your metals, your records, 215 00:12:26,400 --> 00:12:29,600 Speaker 1: they all spoke for you. And I totally get that. 216 00:12:30,280 --> 00:12:34,719 Speaker 1: And you also were really conscious of how you were perceived, 217 00:12:34,800 --> 00:12:38,439 Speaker 1: particularly in the world that gives you contracts, that supports you, 218 00:12:38,559 --> 00:12:43,280 Speaker 1: that you know, does what the whole athletic industrial complex does. 219 00:12:43,920 --> 00:12:48,360 Speaker 1: But after your pregnancy you started speaking out and your 220 00:12:48,480 --> 00:12:51,040 Speaker 1: letter to The New York Times, I read that, and 221 00:12:51,200 --> 00:12:54,760 Speaker 1: oh man, I thought that was so brave, so important, 222 00:12:55,440 --> 00:12:59,240 Speaker 1: so needed. In it, you talked about women athletes losing 223 00:12:59,320 --> 00:13:02,920 Speaker 1: money and contracts during pregnancy, and you also then spoke 224 00:13:02,960 --> 00:13:07,680 Speaker 1: out and even testified before Congress about the maternal health 225 00:13:07,760 --> 00:13:12,720 Speaker 1: disparities that impact Black women disproportionately. So can you talk 226 00:13:12,760 --> 00:13:15,719 Speaker 1: a little bit about how you decided to really use 227 00:13:15,840 --> 00:13:19,640 Speaker 1: your powerful voice to speak on things that you had 228 00:13:19,760 --> 00:13:23,280 Speaker 1: personal experience, but that you could then draw a larger 229 00:13:23,840 --> 00:13:27,000 Speaker 1: audience for. Yeah, it was such a journey to get 230 00:13:27,040 --> 00:13:29,679 Speaker 1: to that point. I mean absolutely what you said is 231 00:13:30,120 --> 00:13:32,720 Speaker 1: it's true. I was the athlete that was hyper focused 232 00:13:32,760 --> 00:13:35,480 Speaker 1: on performance. You know, I felt like my job is 233 00:13:35,520 --> 00:13:39,199 Speaker 1: to get medals, to break records, and I was such 234 00:13:39,240 --> 00:13:41,160 Speaker 1: a people pleaser, you know. I didn't want to rock 235 00:13:41,200 --> 00:13:43,360 Speaker 1: the boat and I just wanted to stay in my 236 00:13:43,440 --> 00:13:46,559 Speaker 1: lane and do what I did. And that worked for 237 00:13:46,600 --> 00:13:48,760 Speaker 1: a long time. And then I started to go through 238 00:13:48,800 --> 00:13:52,080 Speaker 1: these real life experiences and I started to really see 239 00:13:52,520 --> 00:13:55,640 Speaker 1: kind of what was happening behind the curtain and understand 240 00:13:56,000 --> 00:13:58,000 Speaker 1: that I was in a position that I had a 241 00:13:58,000 --> 00:14:01,120 Speaker 1: platform and I could speak out. And I think the 242 00:14:01,160 --> 00:14:03,640 Speaker 1: thing that really kind of shifted me to get to 243 00:14:03,640 --> 00:14:06,920 Speaker 1: that point was having my daughter. You know, I started 244 00:14:06,960 --> 00:14:10,000 Speaker 1: to think about, you know, the world that she is 245 00:14:10,000 --> 00:14:13,160 Speaker 1: going to grow up in, and here, you know, I 246 00:14:13,200 --> 00:14:15,200 Speaker 1: don't want her to have these same battles, you know, 247 00:14:15,360 --> 00:14:18,040 Speaker 1: that have been happening for so long. And I got 248 00:14:18,080 --> 00:14:21,640 Speaker 1: to a place where it was like, even if nothing happens, 249 00:14:21,680 --> 00:14:24,080 Speaker 1: you know, I just deeply believe that this is the 250 00:14:24,160 --> 00:14:26,200 Speaker 1: right thing to do and I have to speak out 251 00:14:26,280 --> 00:14:28,760 Speaker 1: on it, and you know, I want to make her proud. 252 00:14:28,840 --> 00:14:31,680 Speaker 1: And I also thinking about the other women you know, 253 00:14:31,800 --> 00:14:34,360 Speaker 1: so many women came before me who didn't have the 254 00:14:34,360 --> 00:14:37,280 Speaker 1: opportunity to speak out, and a lot of these situations 255 00:14:37,320 --> 00:14:39,600 Speaker 1: there's in d a s and that's why it's happened 256 00:14:39,600 --> 00:14:42,800 Speaker 1: for so long. And here I had the opportunity to really, 257 00:14:43,320 --> 00:14:45,520 Speaker 1: you know, come forward and say this is what's happening. 258 00:14:45,920 --> 00:14:48,320 Speaker 1: And so um, yeah, it took a long time, but 259 00:14:48,640 --> 00:14:50,760 Speaker 1: grateful that I got to a place where I could 260 00:14:50,760 --> 00:14:54,120 Speaker 1: get outside of my comfort zone and speak up. Well, 261 00:14:54,160 --> 00:14:58,120 Speaker 1: thank goodness you did. And I totally get what happens 262 00:14:58,160 --> 00:14:59,680 Speaker 1: to you when you have a child and in my 263 00:14:59,760 --> 00:15:02,360 Speaker 1: case now three grandchildren, and you really do think about 264 00:15:02,400 --> 00:15:04,400 Speaker 1: the world you want them to grow up in and 265 00:15:04,440 --> 00:15:09,359 Speaker 1: what they'll inherit. And it seems almost you know, preordained 266 00:15:09,400 --> 00:15:11,840 Speaker 1: in some way that you know, you and Serena Williams 267 00:15:11,840 --> 00:15:16,920 Speaker 1: would both have had these really traumatic birth experiences because 268 00:15:16,960 --> 00:15:20,800 Speaker 1: so many black women have had similar experiences. Some did 269 00:15:20,840 --> 00:15:24,880 Speaker 1: not survive, some did not see their baby survive. And 270 00:15:24,920 --> 00:15:27,640 Speaker 1: I was really pleased to see Vice President Harris take 271 00:15:27,680 --> 00:15:30,120 Speaker 1: this on as an issue, and you know, members of 272 00:15:30,160 --> 00:15:33,560 Speaker 1: Congress past start passing laws you testified on behalf of 273 00:15:33,920 --> 00:15:37,320 Speaker 1: you know, better attention, better resources. This should not be 274 00:15:37,800 --> 00:15:40,760 Speaker 1: and thank you for being the advocate that you are. 275 00:15:41,480 --> 00:15:44,560 Speaker 1: And part of what you did to keep going further 276 00:15:44,680 --> 00:15:48,080 Speaker 1: than you'd ever gone before was to found your own 277 00:15:48,160 --> 00:15:53,280 Speaker 1: women's shoe company as as very explicitly an alternative to 278 00:15:53,360 --> 00:15:57,480 Speaker 1: the male oriented sneaker companies that drive the sports world. 279 00:15:57,880 --> 00:16:00,320 Speaker 1: So tell me about that. You know, where'd you find name? 280 00:16:00,680 --> 00:16:02,400 Speaker 1: You know, why do you think we need our own 281 00:16:02,400 --> 00:16:07,200 Speaker 1: shoe company? Yeah? So it actually happened very organically. You know, 282 00:16:07,280 --> 00:16:11,240 Speaker 1: I was looking for a footwear sponsor. I had Athleta 283 00:16:11,360 --> 00:16:15,280 Speaker 1: as a apparel sponsor, and I was very empowered by 284 00:16:15,280 --> 00:16:17,480 Speaker 1: the way they did business, you know, their female lead, 285 00:16:18,000 --> 00:16:20,160 Speaker 1: their mission, you know everything. And I was like, wow, 286 00:16:20,200 --> 00:16:22,480 Speaker 1: if I could find this in footwear, that would be amazing. 287 00:16:23,040 --> 00:16:27,160 Speaker 1: And started to search and I realized that here's another 288 00:16:27,240 --> 00:16:31,200 Speaker 1: area where women are an afterthought and shoes aren't made 289 00:16:31,200 --> 00:16:34,760 Speaker 1: for women. Um. And so I was talking with my 290 00:16:34,840 --> 00:16:37,880 Speaker 1: brother and I was basically venting to him about like, wow, 291 00:16:37,880 --> 00:16:40,480 Speaker 1: I've been to four Olympics and I don't have shoes 292 00:16:40,520 --> 00:16:43,160 Speaker 1: to wear in the Olympics, Like this is so frustrating. 293 00:16:43,800 --> 00:16:45,440 Speaker 1: And he looked at me and he was like, well, 294 00:16:45,560 --> 00:16:48,160 Speaker 1: what if we did this ourselves? And I was like, 295 00:16:48,720 --> 00:16:52,880 Speaker 1: that sounds so big, But the more I sat with it, 296 00:16:52,920 --> 00:16:55,560 Speaker 1: I was like, Wow, instead of asking for change, here's 297 00:16:55,560 --> 00:16:58,440 Speaker 1: an opportunity to be that change. And so we found 298 00:16:58,440 --> 00:17:01,640 Speaker 1: in Sage, which is a lifestyle brand for women, and 299 00:17:01,680 --> 00:17:04,600 Speaker 1: our first product is a lifestyle sneaker. And one of 300 00:17:04,600 --> 00:17:07,600 Speaker 1: my proudest moments was being able to compete in the 301 00:17:07,640 --> 00:17:11,560 Speaker 1: Olympics wearing my own brand, you know, shoes made by 302 00:17:11,600 --> 00:17:16,240 Speaker 1: my company, and it was incredible. Um. The name comes 303 00:17:16,320 --> 00:17:19,080 Speaker 1: from the French word seschet to move back and forth, 304 00:17:19,119 --> 00:17:21,320 Speaker 1: but we use it in the context of the wave. 305 00:17:21,480 --> 00:17:24,399 Speaker 1: It's a the safe wave is found in enclosed bodies 306 00:17:24,440 --> 00:17:28,679 Speaker 1: of water and atmospheric pressure pushes that water to one side, 307 00:17:28,960 --> 00:17:32,280 Speaker 1: and it's the safe wave that restores balance. And so 308 00:17:32,320 --> 00:17:35,600 Speaker 1: we're looking to bring balance into the marketplace. You know, 309 00:17:35,880 --> 00:17:40,280 Speaker 1: these are shoes designed and engineered by women for women. 310 00:17:40,680 --> 00:17:43,960 Speaker 1: The female foot is actually has differences than a man's foot, 311 00:17:44,359 --> 00:17:47,080 Speaker 1: and so we think that, you know, we should be 312 00:17:47,119 --> 00:17:50,000 Speaker 1: a priority. So that's what we're doing. And we exist 313 00:17:50,080 --> 00:17:52,160 Speaker 1: to see women and too no women and so that 314 00:17:52,359 --> 00:17:54,600 Speaker 1: women will never feel how I felt when I was 315 00:17:54,640 --> 00:17:57,359 Speaker 1: training at four o'clock in the morning, So that nobody 316 00:17:57,400 --> 00:18:00,399 Speaker 1: would know that I was pregnant. Sou just really cited 317 00:18:00,440 --> 00:18:04,400 Speaker 1: about it and looking forward to serving women. Oh I 318 00:18:04,440 --> 00:18:06,919 Speaker 1: love that story and I love the name Sage. That 319 00:18:07,040 --> 00:18:09,919 Speaker 1: really has a great feel to it. And now that 320 00:18:09,960 --> 00:18:13,080 Speaker 1: you told us all what it means, thank you. Well. 321 00:18:13,240 --> 00:18:17,320 Speaker 1: Once again, you broke several Olympic records this past summer 322 00:18:17,400 --> 00:18:24,000 Speaker 1: in Tokyo, becoming the most decorated female trek and field 323 00:18:24,080 --> 00:18:27,359 Speaker 1: athlete in Olympic history, all the way back to the Greeks, 324 00:18:27,440 --> 00:18:31,560 Speaker 1: which didn't even allow women. It's just so extraordinary. How 325 00:18:31,560 --> 00:18:35,680 Speaker 1: did this Olympic competition feel for you? There? You were 326 00:18:35,920 --> 00:18:39,439 Speaker 1: wearing your own safe shoes, a mom, competing at the 327 00:18:39,520 --> 00:18:44,439 Speaker 1: highest levels possible. What was that like compared to past 328 00:18:44,600 --> 00:18:47,560 Speaker 1: games you were in? Yeah, oh my gosh, it felt 329 00:18:47,680 --> 00:18:51,040 Speaker 1: so good. And it was much bigger than the race. 330 00:18:51,320 --> 00:18:54,800 Speaker 1: You know, I went and I felt like I was 331 00:18:54,840 --> 00:18:57,960 Speaker 1: a representation for women and for mothers and for anyone 332 00:18:58,000 --> 00:18:59,960 Speaker 1: who was told that, you know, their best days were 333 00:19:00,000 --> 00:19:03,720 Speaker 1: behind them. And that just gave me an added motivation. 334 00:19:03,880 --> 00:19:07,920 Speaker 1: You know. I usually I am so stress about every 335 00:19:07,920 --> 00:19:11,560 Speaker 1: little thing and every performance competition thing, and this time 336 00:19:12,080 --> 00:19:14,439 Speaker 1: it was so free because I had heard from so 337 00:19:14,520 --> 00:19:17,680 Speaker 1: many women, connected with so many people who just told 338 00:19:17,720 --> 00:19:20,600 Speaker 1: me to get out there and enjoy myself and that 339 00:19:20,640 --> 00:19:22,720 Speaker 1: they were proud of me. And it was like a 340 00:19:22,760 --> 00:19:24,840 Speaker 1: weight was lifted off of my shoulders. And so I 341 00:19:24,840 --> 00:19:27,480 Speaker 1: think it's the first time I felt so fulfilled, you know, 342 00:19:27,560 --> 00:19:30,439 Speaker 1: I crossed the line. It was like, wow, I was 343 00:19:30,480 --> 00:19:33,000 Speaker 1: told that this couldn't be done. And how many of 344 00:19:33,119 --> 00:19:36,160 Speaker 1: us are told that, you know, like we we all 345 00:19:36,359 --> 00:19:38,480 Speaker 1: we all can relate to that. And so it was 346 00:19:38,520 --> 00:19:40,959 Speaker 1: so special to you know, to cross that line and 347 00:19:41,320 --> 00:19:44,359 Speaker 1: in the shoes, and to know that my daughter was 348 00:19:44,400 --> 00:19:47,600 Speaker 1: watching and that she has been on this journey and 349 00:19:47,640 --> 00:19:50,280 Speaker 1: I can't wait to really, you know, tell her what 350 00:19:50,320 --> 00:19:52,760 Speaker 1: it has been like and that she has also been 351 00:19:52,760 --> 00:19:56,840 Speaker 1: that motivation to keep going. Oh my gosh. Well you 352 00:19:56,960 --> 00:20:00,880 Speaker 1: also decided, uh and announced that this would be your 353 00:20:01,160 --> 00:20:04,640 Speaker 1: last time competing at the Olympics. Was that a tough 354 00:20:04,680 --> 00:20:08,159 Speaker 1: decision to make? Where you conflicted about it? It was 355 00:20:08,240 --> 00:20:11,160 Speaker 1: mixed emotions, you know, I knew it was probably time, 356 00:20:11,320 --> 00:20:13,920 Speaker 1: you know, on the Olympic stage. I I had such 357 00:20:13,920 --> 00:20:17,760 Speaker 1: a beautiful journey, you know, five Olympic Games, and but 358 00:20:17,960 --> 00:20:19,879 Speaker 1: I wasn't sure how it was going to feel I 359 00:20:20,400 --> 00:20:22,720 Speaker 1: felt like I had no regrets. You know, I remember 360 00:20:22,840 --> 00:20:25,600 Speaker 1: stepping on the track for that last race and just 361 00:20:25,640 --> 00:20:29,240 Speaker 1: feeling a lot of joy. Ah. That is uh, you know, 362 00:20:29,320 --> 00:20:32,880 Speaker 1: beautifully said. And I don't think you will ever slow down. 363 00:20:32,920 --> 00:20:36,760 Speaker 1: I think you'll just change direction and take on new challenges. 364 00:20:37,480 --> 00:20:41,440 Speaker 1: Thinking about developing any new hobbies or taking up something else. 365 00:20:41,560 --> 00:20:43,120 Speaker 1: I don't know, are you. You know? The one thing 366 00:20:43,160 --> 00:20:46,080 Speaker 1: I'm really looking forward to doing that I haven't been 367 00:20:46,160 --> 00:20:48,720 Speaker 1: able to do is skiing. It's like the one thing 368 00:20:49,200 --> 00:20:51,480 Speaker 1: every time we go out for the holidays, you know, 369 00:20:51,480 --> 00:20:53,120 Speaker 1: I'm always the one at the bottom of the hill 370 00:20:53,200 --> 00:20:56,439 Speaker 1: waiting for everybody. So I think that's one little hobby 371 00:20:56,480 --> 00:20:58,719 Speaker 1: that I hope to take up. It's a great sport 372 00:20:59,600 --> 00:21:02,080 Speaker 1: by no means a great or even a mediocre skier, 373 00:21:02,200 --> 00:21:05,960 Speaker 1: but I loved and you know, I hope you will 374 00:21:06,400 --> 00:21:08,520 Speaker 1: take it up and enjoy that. One of those small 375 00:21:08,560 --> 00:21:11,040 Speaker 1: things that's kind of been on my list that it's like, oh, 376 00:21:11,080 --> 00:21:14,080 Speaker 1: now I can actually do that. Of course, knowing you, 377 00:21:14,160 --> 00:21:16,639 Speaker 1: I'll probably see you in the Winter Olympics in eight years. 378 00:21:16,720 --> 00:21:18,720 Speaker 1: I mean, I'm not going to cut it out. I 379 00:21:18,760 --> 00:21:23,080 Speaker 1: think we're safe there. Well, Allison, I cannot tell you 380 00:21:23,160 --> 00:21:26,800 Speaker 1: how much I have enjoyed watching you as a great 381 00:21:27,040 --> 00:21:30,800 Speaker 1: fan and admirer. Watching you in the Olympics and to 382 00:21:31,000 --> 00:21:33,720 Speaker 1: see you become a mom and stand up for other 383 00:21:33,800 --> 00:21:36,479 Speaker 1: mothers and stand up for yourself and stand up for 384 00:21:36,520 --> 00:21:41,600 Speaker 1: what's right has been absolutely a joy. And uh, I 385 00:21:41,640 --> 00:21:45,080 Speaker 1: just wish you the very best whatever direction you decide 386 00:21:45,119 --> 00:21:48,080 Speaker 1: to go, I pill downhill wherever you end down. Well, 387 00:21:48,119 --> 00:21:50,520 Speaker 1: thank you so much. It's been so nice to talk 388 00:21:50,560 --> 00:21:53,320 Speaker 1: with you, and I just appreciate everything that you've done 389 00:21:53,320 --> 00:21:55,800 Speaker 1: in the inspiration that you've been to me and to 390 00:21:55,960 --> 00:22:03,680 Speaker 1: my daughter as well. To keep track of Alison Felix's 391 00:22:03,760 --> 00:22:09,879 Speaker 1: next moves, you can follow her on Twitter. Now. Maybe 392 00:22:09,920 --> 00:22:14,080 Speaker 1: you know Vanessa Williams as the chart topping singer of 393 00:22:14,200 --> 00:22:17,960 Speaker 1: hits like Save the Best for Last, or maybe for 394 00:22:18,000 --> 00:22:23,000 Speaker 1: her Emmy nominated role on the hit TV show Ugly Betty, 395 00:22:23,119 --> 00:22:26,280 Speaker 1: or for one of her many starring roles on Broadway. 396 00:22:26,640 --> 00:22:30,440 Speaker 1: I mean, seriously, Vanessa has been nominated for or one 397 00:22:30,760 --> 00:22:34,560 Speaker 1: nearly every award there is, and she's worked in every 398 00:22:34,640 --> 00:22:38,080 Speaker 1: facet of the entertainment industry, in addition to having her 399 00:22:38,119 --> 00:22:43,760 Speaker 1: own fashion line and becoming a best selling author. And advocate. 400 00:22:44,600 --> 00:22:48,000 Speaker 1: I'm fortunate to know Vanessa not just as a fan, 401 00:22:48,200 --> 00:22:51,040 Speaker 1: but as a neighbor since she grew up and her 402 00:22:51,040 --> 00:22:54,840 Speaker 1: mother still lives in Chappaqua, New York. The thing that 403 00:22:54,960 --> 00:22:58,880 Speaker 1: first brought Vanessa Williams to national attention was her barrier 404 00:22:59,000 --> 00:23:02,920 Speaker 1: breaking crowning as the first black woman to be Miss 405 00:23:02,960 --> 00:23:07,800 Speaker 1: America back in nineteen three. Soon after, she was forced 406 00:23:07,840 --> 00:23:12,200 Speaker 1: to resign when Penthouse Magazine published risque photos of her 407 00:23:12,400 --> 00:23:16,840 Speaker 1: without her consent. But boy did she make a comeback. 408 00:23:18,040 --> 00:23:20,560 Speaker 1: You know, I am so happy to have you on 409 00:23:20,600 --> 00:23:24,280 Speaker 1: this show. Vanessa and Chelsea and I did the very 410 00:23:24,400 --> 00:23:27,720 Speaker 1: last event in promoting our book of Gutsy Women with 411 00:23:27,840 --> 00:23:31,840 Speaker 1: you as the moderator at Pace University on a very 412 00:23:31,880 --> 00:23:36,919 Speaker 1: snowy winter night in December of twenty nineteen. And it 413 00:23:36,960 --> 00:23:38,720 Speaker 1: was one of the very last things that I did, 414 00:23:38,760 --> 00:23:42,919 Speaker 1: and I think you did before the world shut down. Right. Absolutely, 415 00:23:43,400 --> 00:23:46,000 Speaker 1: we had a wonderful turnout. Of course, your book is 416 00:23:46,040 --> 00:23:50,600 Speaker 1: amazing and so inspirational. And then uh we started twenty 417 00:23:50,680 --> 00:23:52,359 Speaker 1: I went off to London what I has told you, 418 00:23:52,400 --> 00:23:54,520 Speaker 1: I was going to start in City of Angels at 419 00:23:54,560 --> 00:23:57,280 Speaker 1: the Garrick Theater. We went into rehearsal, and then we 420 00:23:57,280 --> 00:24:00,679 Speaker 1: were in previews and then slowly people's arted calling and 421 00:24:00,680 --> 00:24:04,400 Speaker 1: saying I'm sick, I canceled my flight, or oh, I'm 422 00:24:04,440 --> 00:24:07,240 Speaker 1: nervous about coming because people are starting to get sick 423 00:24:07,280 --> 00:24:11,240 Speaker 1: around me. And then Broadway closed that March twelve, and 424 00:24:11,280 --> 00:24:14,760 Speaker 1: we closed the following Monday that the March, and then 425 00:24:15,440 --> 00:24:19,080 Speaker 1: all theaters shut down for a while. So it was hard. 426 00:24:19,240 --> 00:24:22,000 Speaker 1: It was hard. So how are you now? How have 427 00:24:22,160 --> 00:24:25,520 Speaker 1: you gotten through this pandemic time that we've all been 428 00:24:25,560 --> 00:24:28,119 Speaker 1: living through since then? Well, I was one of the 429 00:24:28,240 --> 00:24:32,200 Speaker 1: lucky ones. You know. For instance, Renee Fleming, brilliant soprano. 430 00:24:32,200 --> 00:24:34,359 Speaker 1: As a friend of mine, we started doing all these 431 00:24:34,680 --> 00:24:40,160 Speaker 1: Zoom cocktail hours, which everybody did, and while we're sipping 432 00:24:40,160 --> 00:24:43,119 Speaker 1: our wine, we're like, you know, we should do something together. 433 00:24:43,200 --> 00:24:46,160 Speaker 1: Let's do it live from our living rooms. And then 434 00:24:46,320 --> 00:24:49,280 Speaker 1: we started thinking about programs and shows, and then I 435 00:24:49,359 --> 00:24:51,520 Speaker 1: was like, well, why don't we do it actually in 436 00:24:51,720 --> 00:24:55,000 Speaker 1: a venue and do it socially distance And we end 437 00:24:55,080 --> 00:24:57,720 Speaker 1: up doing a show at the Kennedy Center, something that 438 00:24:57,800 --> 00:25:00,359 Speaker 1: we came up with a zoom and then you know, 439 00:25:00,480 --> 00:25:04,119 Speaker 1: I did a Elephantzgerald Christmas Swinging Christmas thing that we 440 00:25:04,160 --> 00:25:07,000 Speaker 1: did outside. I did a live from the West Side, 441 00:25:07,200 --> 00:25:10,640 Speaker 1: a Broadway thing that we did, you know, socially distanced streaming, 442 00:25:10,720 --> 00:25:14,080 Speaker 1: so you kind of change the game. And and I 443 00:25:14,119 --> 00:25:16,520 Speaker 1: still got a chance to sing from my piano, you know, 444 00:25:16,640 --> 00:25:19,520 Speaker 1: in the next room. And you made it work, so 445 00:25:19,680 --> 00:25:22,720 Speaker 1: I didn't really lose much at all, and I had 446 00:25:22,760 --> 00:25:25,719 Speaker 1: the convenience of doing most of my performing in my 447 00:25:25,800 --> 00:25:29,280 Speaker 1: own house. I love that. I love that, you know, 448 00:25:29,400 --> 00:25:32,520 Speaker 1: let's make it happen attitude. You also had that, and 449 00:25:32,560 --> 00:25:35,800 Speaker 1: that's exactly, you know, one of the reasons why I 450 00:25:35,840 --> 00:25:39,080 Speaker 1: admire you so much. You know, when I think about 451 00:25:39,160 --> 00:25:42,800 Speaker 1: your early career, it really was very much focused in 452 00:25:42,800 --> 00:25:45,920 Speaker 1: this place where we both live. And your parents were 453 00:25:45,920 --> 00:25:49,719 Speaker 1: both music teachers, right, and you came from a musical family. 454 00:25:50,200 --> 00:25:53,080 Speaker 1: You had the talent and the drive and the interest 455 00:25:53,200 --> 00:25:57,560 Speaker 1: to do it yourself. And as you know everybody knows, 456 00:25:57,600 --> 00:26:01,920 Speaker 1: you became the first black woman who was crowned Miss American. 457 00:26:02,040 --> 00:26:05,880 Speaker 1: I remember watching that. I remember seeing you long before 458 00:26:05,960 --> 00:26:09,160 Speaker 1: I knew I would live in your town. And god, 459 00:26:09,280 --> 00:26:11,919 Speaker 1: you are, I mean, you are just so magnetic. And 460 00:26:11,960 --> 00:26:16,520 Speaker 1: then you waged one of the great comebacks in entertainment history, 461 00:26:16,640 --> 00:26:19,879 Speaker 1: and you're such a role model for not only women 462 00:26:19,920 --> 00:26:22,080 Speaker 1: of color, but you know, young women and not so 463 00:26:22,200 --> 00:26:25,240 Speaker 1: young women. Uh. You know, just recently, I released a 464 00:26:25,280 --> 00:26:30,119 Speaker 1: master class about resilience, so you know, talk a little 465 00:26:30,119 --> 00:26:34,720 Speaker 1: bit about what you have inside of you that keeps 466 00:26:34,720 --> 00:26:38,399 Speaker 1: you up and going. Well, thank you for um that 467 00:26:38,520 --> 00:26:43,119 Speaker 1: observation and also being compared and in the same group 468 00:26:43,240 --> 00:26:46,280 Speaker 1: as you, because resilience is one of those things that 469 00:26:46,600 --> 00:26:48,399 Speaker 1: I don't know whether the fire in the belly is 470 00:26:48,560 --> 00:26:50,919 Speaker 1: what you're just born with, but I have it and 471 00:26:50,960 --> 00:26:53,680 Speaker 1: I know you have it. And we both had very 472 00:26:53,760 --> 00:26:57,720 Speaker 1: strong mothers that I do believe that I always wanted 473 00:26:57,760 --> 00:27:01,240 Speaker 1: to please, which is still she's still eighty two and 474 00:27:01,240 --> 00:27:04,639 Speaker 1: I'm still trying to fleeze her, which you know, it 475 00:27:04,720 --> 00:27:06,800 Speaker 1: informs a lot. I mean, I look back at my 476 00:27:06,920 --> 00:27:09,600 Speaker 1: marriages and like, you didn't like this person, Well guess what, 477 00:27:09,600 --> 00:27:11,520 Speaker 1: I'm gonna marry him anyway. And I mean, like a 478 00:27:11,560 --> 00:27:15,280 Speaker 1: lot of my choices, a lot of mother isches. But 479 00:27:16,320 --> 00:27:18,720 Speaker 1: we did write a book together and kind of wanted 480 00:27:18,720 --> 00:27:20,399 Speaker 1: to mention that. I mean, it has one of the 481 00:27:20,480 --> 00:27:24,520 Speaker 1: great titles of any mother daughter memoir. You have no 482 00:27:24,640 --> 00:27:28,480 Speaker 1: idea a famous daughter, her no nonsense mother and how 483 00:27:28,520 --> 00:27:34,040 Speaker 1: they survived pageants, Hollywood, love loss, and each other. Yes, 484 00:27:35,560 --> 00:27:38,480 Speaker 1: so you know, I think it gets passed down that 485 00:27:38,520 --> 00:27:42,399 Speaker 1: my mother is super very resilient and just fought her 486 00:27:42,480 --> 00:27:45,840 Speaker 1: way to the top of what she wanted to do. 487 00:27:46,000 --> 00:27:49,240 Speaker 1: And well, she was born in Buffalo, you know, raising 488 00:27:49,280 --> 00:27:54,040 Speaker 1: a very segregated place, and just fought to prove herself 489 00:27:54,080 --> 00:27:58,480 Speaker 1: time and time again. So I think that watching her journey, 490 00:27:58,520 --> 00:28:03,000 Speaker 1: seeing her resilience definitely was I would say the footprint 491 00:28:03,119 --> 00:28:07,160 Speaker 1: for my ease at being able to always kind of 492 00:28:07,480 --> 00:28:11,120 Speaker 1: trigger what I think comes naturally within my my bones. 493 00:28:11,680 --> 00:28:14,680 Speaker 1: But also as I've grown, and you know, at fifty 494 00:28:14,760 --> 00:28:17,560 Speaker 1: eight years old, I have way more wisdom. I realized 495 00:28:17,640 --> 00:28:21,280 Speaker 1: that you're always going to be judged no matter you 496 00:28:21,320 --> 00:28:23,760 Speaker 1: know from high school too, you're always going to be judged, 497 00:28:24,080 --> 00:28:25,840 Speaker 1: and they don't know who you are, they don't know 498 00:28:25,840 --> 00:28:28,240 Speaker 1: what you're thinking, they don't know what you're feeling. So 499 00:28:28,960 --> 00:28:33,879 Speaker 1: just leave that judgment at the door and believe in 500 00:28:33,880 --> 00:28:37,159 Speaker 1: yourself and know that, okay, you know what, they'll eventually 501 00:28:37,280 --> 00:28:39,480 Speaker 1: know who I am. I don't get a chance to 502 00:28:39,520 --> 00:28:42,280 Speaker 1: show them, and it's, you know, one of those things 503 00:28:42,280 --> 00:28:45,480 Speaker 1: that I've just kind of used as my template to 504 00:28:45,840 --> 00:28:50,520 Speaker 1: survive and to not give a dam. Really, yeah, you know, 505 00:28:50,560 --> 00:28:53,520 Speaker 1: everybody's judged, but look, it's harder for women. There is 506 00:28:53,520 --> 00:28:57,680 Speaker 1: still this you know, blatant double standard as somebody in 507 00:28:57,720 --> 00:29:01,000 Speaker 1: the public eye. You know, you do getticism, and you 508 00:29:01,000 --> 00:29:03,400 Speaker 1: know you can learn something. Sometimes your critics will tell 509 00:29:03,440 --> 00:29:06,680 Speaker 1: you things your friends you know won't. But you can't 510 00:29:06,760 --> 00:29:09,280 Speaker 1: let it pull you down and keep you down and 511 00:29:09,320 --> 00:29:12,440 Speaker 1: make you doubt yourself and lose your confidence in yourself. 512 00:29:12,480 --> 00:29:15,200 Speaker 1: And that's what I try to tell young people, particularly 513 00:29:15,240 --> 00:29:17,320 Speaker 1: young women, all the time. I said, get used to it. 514 00:29:17,360 --> 00:29:20,360 Speaker 1: You're gonna get criticized. It doesn't matter how hard you 515 00:29:20,440 --> 00:29:23,400 Speaker 1: try and how good you do. You're gonna get criticized. 516 00:29:23,560 --> 00:29:27,000 Speaker 1: Isn't that right? Absolutely? And also I mean what I 517 00:29:27,040 --> 00:29:29,760 Speaker 1: tell young younger women, I say, you know, do the work. 518 00:29:30,240 --> 00:29:32,239 Speaker 1: You'll get hired when people know that you show up 519 00:29:32,240 --> 00:29:35,280 Speaker 1: in your professional and you can handle stress, you can 520 00:29:35,360 --> 00:29:40,400 Speaker 1: solve problems. You're not incapable of of getting yourself out 521 00:29:40,400 --> 00:29:43,400 Speaker 1: of a situation or managing a situation. Right, that's what 522 00:29:43,560 --> 00:29:45,320 Speaker 1: your employer is gonna want to see, and that's what 523 00:29:45,360 --> 00:29:48,080 Speaker 1: makes you a good team player, a good actor that 524 00:29:48,080 --> 00:29:49,920 Speaker 1: they're going to bring onto an ensemble, that they know 525 00:29:49,960 --> 00:29:52,080 Speaker 1: that you can handle it and be able to to 526 00:29:52,160 --> 00:29:55,000 Speaker 1: be professional. You know, I've I've I've got four kids, 527 00:29:55,040 --> 00:29:56,920 Speaker 1: and that's what I always try to say. Show up 528 00:29:56,920 --> 00:30:00,200 Speaker 1: on time, do your best, and you'll always continue need 529 00:30:00,240 --> 00:30:06,840 Speaker 1: to get hired. Yeah, do the work right, We'll be 530 00:30:06,960 --> 00:30:20,000 Speaker 1: right back. I've always wanted to ask somebody who's in 531 00:30:20,040 --> 00:30:22,680 Speaker 1: the spotlight as you are, how do you memorize all 532 00:30:22,760 --> 00:30:25,320 Speaker 1: your lines? Do you have a trick? I do have 533 00:30:25,360 --> 00:30:29,960 Speaker 1: a trick. So most of the time people will look 534 00:30:29,960 --> 00:30:32,360 Speaker 1: at a page and think that they're gonna they do 535 00:30:32,360 --> 00:30:34,360 Speaker 1: it by road and go over and over and over again, 536 00:30:34,560 --> 00:30:36,400 Speaker 1: and as as soon as they stand up, they can't 537 00:30:36,400 --> 00:30:39,880 Speaker 1: remember a thing. So you have to make your muscle 538 00:30:40,160 --> 00:30:43,520 Speaker 1: memory work. So I do all myself on the treadmill, 539 00:30:43,800 --> 00:30:46,640 Speaker 1: So I'll say it out loud while I'm walking on 540 00:30:46,680 --> 00:30:50,720 Speaker 1: the treadmill, so when I'm in the scene and I'm walking, 541 00:30:50,960 --> 00:30:53,720 Speaker 1: I still have it connected to my body. So that's 542 00:30:53,800 --> 00:30:57,360 Speaker 1: one aspect. And then I also write out everything in scripts, 543 00:30:57,360 --> 00:31:01,120 Speaker 1: so I'm actually again physically writing out the words that 544 00:31:01,160 --> 00:31:07,360 Speaker 1: I'm speaking, and and just it's it's repetition, it really is. Yeah, 545 00:31:07,360 --> 00:31:09,680 Speaker 1: but I love this idea of doing it on the treadmill. 546 00:31:09,720 --> 00:31:12,680 Speaker 1: Another reason why I should get on the treadmill. Okay, 547 00:31:12,040 --> 00:31:15,160 Speaker 1: I am being I am being, you know, encouraged and 548 00:31:15,200 --> 00:31:17,800 Speaker 1: a little bit shamed, to be honest. You know, my 549 00:31:17,800 --> 00:31:21,760 Speaker 1: my daughter ran the marathon, the New York City Marathon, uh, 550 00:31:22,000 --> 00:31:27,320 Speaker 1: this past November, and I think all that athletic DNA 551 00:31:27,440 --> 00:31:30,040 Speaker 1: skipped a generation, you know, if it just went right 552 00:31:30,080 --> 00:31:32,480 Speaker 1: to her. You know. The other thing I just heard 553 00:31:32,560 --> 00:31:36,400 Speaker 1: is that you've got a really fun new role. You 554 00:31:36,560 --> 00:31:40,640 Speaker 1: switched gears again to become a judge on a drag 555 00:31:40,880 --> 00:31:45,040 Speaker 1: queen singing competition called Queen of the Universe. What's that 556 00:31:45,120 --> 00:31:49,280 Speaker 1: been like? It was amazing. We we shot it in London. 557 00:31:49,400 --> 00:31:53,200 Speaker 1: It is a global singing competition for drag queens, which 558 00:31:53,280 --> 00:31:56,959 Speaker 1: is always fun. Give me more sparkle, give me more glitter, 559 00:31:57,400 --> 00:32:03,280 Speaker 1: give me more sequence and uh. These queens competed from India, 560 00:32:03,320 --> 00:32:07,920 Speaker 1: you know, Brazil, China, France, the UK of course, the 561 00:32:07,960 --> 00:32:11,760 Speaker 1: United States, Mexico, Netherlands, all over the globe. And the 562 00:32:11,800 --> 00:32:15,080 Speaker 1: cash prize was two d fifty thousand dollars, which is amazing. 563 00:32:15,880 --> 00:32:20,120 Speaker 1: That's a lot of money for contest on TV and 564 00:32:20,160 --> 00:32:22,040 Speaker 1: they have to sing live. That was a big thing. 565 00:32:22,080 --> 00:32:25,080 Speaker 1: No lip sinking. They are singing live. You know that's good. 566 00:32:25,120 --> 00:32:27,800 Speaker 1: I mean the lip sinking, you know. Yeah, okay, that's fine, 567 00:32:27,840 --> 00:32:30,840 Speaker 1: but really for these contests, people should sing live. I'm 568 00:32:30,880 --> 00:32:33,040 Speaker 1: so happy you're doing that. Yeah, yeah, it was a 569 00:32:33,080 --> 00:32:36,680 Speaker 1: lot of fun. You know, you've been incredible in the 570 00:32:36,840 --> 00:32:40,840 Speaker 1: range of your roles your activities. Obviously you are a singer, 571 00:32:40,920 --> 00:32:45,880 Speaker 1: as we all know, but also an actor, a fashion designer, 572 00:32:46,240 --> 00:32:51,400 Speaker 1: a writer, an advocate. How have you switched between these, 573 00:32:51,560 --> 00:32:54,280 Speaker 1: you know, various talents and these roles that you've had. 574 00:32:54,520 --> 00:32:56,320 Speaker 1: I mean, I loved you in Ugly Betty, by the 575 00:32:56,320 --> 00:32:59,080 Speaker 1: way I loved you. I mean I don't know, I 576 00:32:59,160 --> 00:33:02,320 Speaker 1: loved and hated you, but I basically loved you. And 577 00:33:02,880 --> 00:33:06,040 Speaker 1: so how what would you advise somebody who had, you know, 578 00:33:06,360 --> 00:33:09,239 Speaker 1: a variety of interests and talents, because they do have 579 00:33:09,280 --> 00:33:11,280 Speaker 1: to do the work, But how do they know what 580 00:33:11,480 --> 00:33:13,960 Speaker 1: area to do the work in and how to build 581 00:33:13,960 --> 00:33:16,560 Speaker 1: a career or how can they follow your example and 582 00:33:16,600 --> 00:33:20,920 Speaker 1: be so versatile well, be open to um taking challenges 583 00:33:20,960 --> 00:33:23,640 Speaker 1: and risks. A lot of things that I never thought 584 00:33:23,760 --> 00:33:25,959 Speaker 1: I was going to be able to do came to 585 00:33:26,000 --> 00:33:29,800 Speaker 1: me because of doing something else. Uh. So you know, yes, 586 00:33:29,840 --> 00:33:31,920 Speaker 1: have a plan, yes, you know, have an outline of 587 00:33:31,960 --> 00:33:33,920 Speaker 1: what you think you want to do in life, but 588 00:33:34,000 --> 00:33:36,440 Speaker 1: then be open to the opportunities that you're not even 589 00:33:36,480 --> 00:33:38,840 Speaker 1: aware of that will come. I'm at this age now 590 00:33:38,960 --> 00:33:43,240 Speaker 1: or midlife. Have I made enough impact in my life? 591 00:33:43,240 --> 00:33:45,800 Speaker 1: What am I going to do? And the advocacy portion 592 00:33:45,880 --> 00:33:48,400 Speaker 1: of it really kind of fell in my lap. I 593 00:33:48,400 --> 00:33:51,080 Speaker 1: would say my biggest role as of yet as as 594 00:33:51,080 --> 00:33:54,680 Speaker 1: a founder of Black Theaty United, which happened um last 595 00:33:54,760 --> 00:33:58,760 Speaker 1: year after the George Floyd murder and all of my 596 00:33:58,840 --> 00:34:02,560 Speaker 1: friends from me Scoll Theater that we've been in shows 597 00:34:02,560 --> 00:34:05,600 Speaker 1: with for over thirty years. Augia McDonald called me, Lashawn's 598 00:34:05,640 --> 00:34:08,799 Speaker 1: called me, Norm Lewis, Brian Stokes, Mitchell. We were so 599 00:34:08,960 --> 00:34:12,719 Speaker 1: stunned and so enraged. We said, what are we gonna do? 600 00:34:12,840 --> 00:34:15,400 Speaker 1: We've got to do something. So we've been able to 601 00:34:15,600 --> 00:34:20,360 Speaker 1: not only um have amazing platforms where hopefully we'll have you, 602 00:34:20,719 --> 00:34:23,400 Speaker 1: be able to have you. Uh, but we've done town halls. 603 00:34:23,520 --> 00:34:26,280 Speaker 1: We have a new deal for Broadway which is about 604 00:34:26,320 --> 00:34:29,279 Speaker 1: e d I A b um and making sure that 605 00:34:29,360 --> 00:34:34,000 Speaker 1: there is inclusion and equity within commercial theaters, and that 606 00:34:34,160 --> 00:34:39,160 Speaker 1: advocacy part of my life, that real active boots on 607 00:34:39,200 --> 00:34:43,839 Speaker 1: the ground. Starting a foundation just recently happened and I 608 00:34:43,840 --> 00:34:46,200 Speaker 1: couldn't be prouder. And we're doing all the work, but 609 00:34:46,360 --> 00:34:48,920 Speaker 1: it's it's a lot, but it means something. It's meaningful, 610 00:34:48,920 --> 00:34:51,200 Speaker 1: and I'm happy to be a founding member of something 611 00:34:51,239 --> 00:34:53,440 Speaker 1: that will be a legacy and I can pass on 612 00:34:53,480 --> 00:34:56,520 Speaker 1: to my children, my grandchildren. You mentioned E D I 613 00:34:57,080 --> 00:35:00,960 Speaker 1: B D I A b SO equity, diverse city, inclusion, 614 00:35:01,160 --> 00:35:05,640 Speaker 1: accessibility and belonging. Oh, I love that. And we held 615 00:35:06,120 --> 00:35:12,640 Speaker 1: seminars with theater owners, producers, directors, casting directors, union people, 616 00:35:13,280 --> 00:35:16,320 Speaker 1: so people in front of the stage, behind the stage, 617 00:35:16,600 --> 00:35:20,919 Speaker 1: owning this stage, about how there has been damaged, how 618 00:35:21,200 --> 00:35:23,279 Speaker 1: you might not even be aware of the power of 619 00:35:23,960 --> 00:35:28,000 Speaker 1: diversity in the dollars and marketing UH and allowing everybody 620 00:35:28,000 --> 00:35:30,400 Speaker 1: to have a chance. The quote that I love is 621 00:35:31,040 --> 00:35:35,160 Speaker 1: diversity is a fact. Inclusion is a choice, So make 622 00:35:35,239 --> 00:35:38,960 Speaker 1: the choice to include us. That's really great. And you know, 623 00:35:39,040 --> 00:35:41,480 Speaker 1: when I think about the pandemic and how disruptive and 624 00:35:41,520 --> 00:35:44,600 Speaker 1: difficult it's been, I also think that a lot of 625 00:35:44,600 --> 00:35:48,000 Speaker 1: people found these kind of silver linings. You all are 626 00:35:48,120 --> 00:35:52,040 Speaker 1: such busy people, and so it's almost hard to believe 627 00:35:52,120 --> 00:35:54,719 Speaker 1: that you could have from your various you know, vantage 628 00:35:54,719 --> 00:35:57,360 Speaker 1: points and everything you were doing, found the time and 629 00:35:57,400 --> 00:36:00,560 Speaker 1: the energy to build this, except for the stomach when 630 00:36:00,600 --> 00:36:04,480 Speaker 1: everything was closed. But what a blessing that you did. Absolutely, 631 00:36:04,880 --> 00:36:07,560 Speaker 1: As as we discussed a little bit earlier, you know, 632 00:36:08,160 --> 00:36:12,080 Speaker 1: we both have had big public you know, moments that 633 00:36:12,120 --> 00:36:15,520 Speaker 1: we wished we hadn't had. You know, some people when 634 00:36:15,520 --> 00:36:19,239 Speaker 1: they go through things that are difficult, they get hyper cautious, 635 00:36:19,280 --> 00:36:23,319 Speaker 1: they get really defensive, they kind of shut down. How 636 00:36:23,360 --> 00:36:26,239 Speaker 1: how do you think about navigating life in the public eye. 637 00:36:26,239 --> 00:36:28,279 Speaker 1: You've been in it a really long time. I've been 638 00:36:28,280 --> 00:36:31,040 Speaker 1: in a really long time. It never gets easier, but 639 00:36:31,200 --> 00:36:35,480 Speaker 1: you get better at it, don't you exactly? Um, and 640 00:36:35,520 --> 00:36:38,760 Speaker 1: I certainly was very defensive for a long long time. 641 00:36:39,080 --> 00:36:42,759 Speaker 1: I mean I became famous at twenty years old, so um, 642 00:36:42,800 --> 00:36:45,359 Speaker 1: you know, uh, it really took me a long time 643 00:36:45,400 --> 00:36:48,919 Speaker 1: to say, yes I'm talented, Yes I'm smart, don't put 644 00:36:48,960 --> 00:36:53,239 Speaker 1: the beauty queen have that negate anything that is really me. 645 00:36:53,400 --> 00:36:57,359 Speaker 1: So I battled that for years and uh it was 646 00:36:57,520 --> 00:37:01,759 Speaker 1: probably once I got more success. My my career has 647 00:37:01,760 --> 00:37:03,840 Speaker 1: always been I didn't know she could do that. Really, 648 00:37:03,880 --> 00:37:06,759 Speaker 1: I didn't know she did. And every accomplishment I've been 649 00:37:06,880 --> 00:37:11,359 Speaker 1: undervalued and underestimated, and every time I've had an accomplishment, oh, 650 00:37:11,520 --> 00:37:13,319 Speaker 1: I didn't know if she could do that. So that 651 00:37:13,360 --> 00:37:16,000 Speaker 1: gave that gave me the thrill. It's like, okay, you 652 00:37:16,040 --> 00:37:18,600 Speaker 1: know what, just cut me out and I'm gonna come 653 00:37:18,640 --> 00:37:22,600 Speaker 1: in and surprise you all. So you know, it's like 654 00:37:22,680 --> 00:37:25,440 Speaker 1: with me, oh my gosh, oh wow, okay, And and 655 00:37:25,520 --> 00:37:27,880 Speaker 1: it's it's and people are always trying to fit you 656 00:37:27,960 --> 00:37:32,920 Speaker 1: into the box they've created, and it does get tiresome. 657 00:37:33,040 --> 00:37:36,320 Speaker 1: I mean, do you feel, as such a successful artist 658 00:37:36,360 --> 00:37:40,000 Speaker 1: in so many ways, do you feel like it's better 659 00:37:40,200 --> 00:37:42,160 Speaker 1: not just for you because you've proven yourself over and 660 00:37:42,200 --> 00:37:45,080 Speaker 1: over again, but for you know, young women coming behind. 661 00:37:45,760 --> 00:37:50,319 Speaker 1: Well for me personally, I finally reconciled and instead of 662 00:37:50,360 --> 00:37:53,239 Speaker 1: saying no, no, no, no no, I've said yes. I 663 00:37:53,280 --> 00:37:56,200 Speaker 1: was Miss America. So the pageant thing, because I was 664 00:37:56,520 --> 00:37:58,719 Speaker 1: I didn't want to be involved with anything with a 665 00:37:58,760 --> 00:38:01,520 Speaker 1: crown and pageant all the kind of stuff. So that 666 00:38:01,719 --> 00:38:04,359 Speaker 1: has taken me a while too. When people say you'll 667 00:38:04,360 --> 00:38:06,120 Speaker 1: always be my queen, I would roll my eyes, like 668 00:38:06,719 --> 00:38:11,280 Speaker 1: here we go again. And and now I think, Okay, 669 00:38:11,360 --> 00:38:14,080 Speaker 1: I remember when I was twenty years old and black 670 00:38:14,120 --> 00:38:16,200 Speaker 1: women would come up to me who are elderly and say, 671 00:38:16,280 --> 00:38:18,360 Speaker 1: I never thought i'd see it in my lifetime and weep. 672 00:38:19,120 --> 00:38:21,960 Speaker 1: I mean, when you are the first, that's so important 673 00:38:21,960 --> 00:38:25,839 Speaker 1: to so many people. So I've embraced that now as 674 00:38:25,880 --> 00:38:28,719 Speaker 1: opposed to saying oh, it didn't matter or oh please 675 00:38:28,760 --> 00:38:31,920 Speaker 1: don't bring it up, which has helped me just like, Okay, 676 00:38:31,960 --> 00:38:34,960 Speaker 1: that's my history, and that's let me accept it instead 677 00:38:34,960 --> 00:38:36,640 Speaker 1: of trying to fight it all the time. So that's 678 00:38:36,640 --> 00:38:40,440 Speaker 1: taken a lot of angst and defensiveness away. But for 679 00:38:40,520 --> 00:38:45,239 Speaker 1: women again, it's it's about the judgment and being put 680 00:38:45,280 --> 00:38:47,719 Speaker 1: in a box. And I mean you have to just 681 00:38:48,200 --> 00:38:50,319 Speaker 1: use that fuel for your fire and just say I'm 682 00:38:50,360 --> 00:38:53,160 Speaker 1: gonna I'm gonna prove to you, okay, got me out, 683 00:38:53,200 --> 00:38:57,080 Speaker 1: guess what I'm coming for you and and and prove it. Yeah. Well, 684 00:38:57,440 --> 00:39:00,480 Speaker 1: you can't change the past, and at some point, even 685 00:39:00,520 --> 00:39:03,239 Speaker 1: if other people can't get on and move from it, 686 00:39:03,440 --> 00:39:06,760 Speaker 1: you have to what is it that you're now fired 687 00:39:06,840 --> 00:39:09,240 Speaker 1: up about? Doing. I mean, do you have some plans 688 00:39:09,320 --> 00:39:12,120 Speaker 1: that you're looking forward to, some activities that get you 689 00:39:12,200 --> 00:39:15,880 Speaker 1: up in the morning. Oh, there's always something that comes 690 00:39:16,560 --> 00:39:20,560 Speaker 1: my way. Uh. I'm really excited about a Broadway project 691 00:39:20,600 --> 00:39:22,880 Speaker 1: that has a lot to do with the White House. 692 00:39:23,920 --> 00:39:26,440 Speaker 1: As soon as I have signed on. As soon as 693 00:39:26,440 --> 00:39:29,000 Speaker 1: we get a theater, I will call you immediately because 694 00:39:29,080 --> 00:39:31,640 Speaker 1: you will die. You will be there helping night. I 695 00:39:31,680 --> 00:39:34,160 Speaker 1: guarantee you. I will give you seats and you will 696 00:39:34,200 --> 00:39:37,799 Speaker 1: love it. It's a comedy, it's hilarious and you will 697 00:39:37,840 --> 00:39:41,279 Speaker 1: get everything and I will play the first lady. So 698 00:39:42,440 --> 00:39:44,400 Speaker 1: I'll have to call you for some tips. But it 699 00:39:44,560 --> 00:39:48,160 Speaker 1: is really funny. I am more than happy to be, 700 00:39:48,320 --> 00:39:52,520 Speaker 1: you know, a consultant and do whatever I can for you. 701 00:39:52,960 --> 00:39:55,800 Speaker 1: I cannot tell you how much I always enjoy you. 702 00:39:55,840 --> 00:39:58,279 Speaker 1: Always put a smile on my face. Vanessa. I just 703 00:39:58,320 --> 00:40:00,760 Speaker 1: want to wish you and your one her full family 704 00:40:01,040 --> 00:40:03,520 Speaker 1: all the best going forward. Thank you so much, and 705 00:40:03,560 --> 00:40:05,520 Speaker 1: it's always an honor to talk to you. And I'm 706 00:40:05,560 --> 00:40:09,040 Speaker 1: always amazed at what your next stage in life is, 707 00:40:09,120 --> 00:40:17,600 Speaker 1: which is always amazing. So thanks so much. Well, I 708 00:40:17,600 --> 00:40:20,319 Speaker 1: don't know about you, but I can't wait for this 709 00:40:20,560 --> 00:40:24,840 Speaker 1: mysterious play that Vanessa Williams told us is in the works. 710 00:40:33,560 --> 00:40:35,560 Speaker 1: You and Me Both is brought to you by I 711 00:40:35,719 --> 00:40:40,399 Speaker 1: Heart Radio. We're produced by Julie Subran, Kathleen Russo and 712 00:40:40,560 --> 00:40:46,280 Speaker 1: Rob Russo, with help from Juma Aberdeen, Oscar Flores, Lindsay Hoffman, 713 00:40:46,440 --> 00:40:52,760 Speaker 1: Brianna Johnson, Nick Merrill, Laura Olan, Lona Velmorrow, and Banita Zaman. 714 00:40:53,440 --> 00:40:57,360 Speaker 1: Our engineer is Zack McNeice and the original music is 715 00:40:57,400 --> 00:41:01,320 Speaker 1: by Forrest Gray. If you like You and Me Both, 716 00:41:01,600 --> 00:41:03,920 Speaker 1: please tell someone else about it. And if you're not 717 00:41:04,040 --> 00:41:07,520 Speaker 1: already a subscriber, what are you waiting for? You can 718 00:41:07,560 --> 00:41:10,080 Speaker 1: subscribe to You and Me Both on the I Heart 719 00:41:10,160 --> 00:41:14,560 Speaker 1: Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. 720 00:41:14,920 --> 00:41:17,640 Speaker 1: Thanks for listening and I'll see you next week.