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Speaker 1: Live from our nation's capital. This is Bloomberg Sound On.

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Speaker 1: China is something that actually united Republican and Democrats. We

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Speaker 1: have a huge problem of cybersecurity and it's growing. We've

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Speaker 1: got to have wealthier people in corporations paying more of

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Speaker 1: a fair share. Bloomberg Sound On the insiders, the influencers,

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Speaker 1: the insights present. Biden likes to be the big thing.

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Speaker 1: He likes to put out the big concepts. There's still

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Speaker 1: a long way to go with this flat tax. We

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Speaker 1: have to break plugs on. This isn't a Democratic Republican,

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Speaker 1: this is an American Schloomberg Sound On with Joe Matthew

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Speaker 1: on Bloomberg Radio from deep inside the Beltway. Bloomberg Sound

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Speaker 1: On is live from our Washington, d C. Bureau, our

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Speaker 1: third city in three days, and the final destination for

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Speaker 1: yours truly, if you were not with us last week,

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Speaker 1: I am your new host, Joe Matthew, and I'm so

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Speaker 1: glad to be back at Washington here in Bloomberg's DC Bureau.

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Speaker 1: Thank you for meeting me here on Bloomberg Radio. Welcome

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Speaker 1: to Monday. It's been a busy day overseas and Bloomberg

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Speaker 1: is fully deployed to bring you the latest from President

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Speaker 1: Biden's trip overseas. The G seven has ended, a NATO

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Speaker 1: summit is rapping as well, and coming up. Will be

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Speaker 1: joined by Congresswoman Abigail Spanburger of Virginia, former CIA agent

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Speaker 1: who now serves on the House Foreign Affairs Committee. Later,

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Speaker 1: we'll talk with Bloomberg Politics contributor Genie she Inzano and

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Speaker 1: Boyd Matheson, former chief of staff for Senator Mike lee Man.

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Speaker 1: Thanks for being with us on Bloomberg sound On. I'm

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Speaker 1: Joe Matthew. We begin today with America's foreign policy as

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Speaker 1: President Biden moves from the G seven meeting and Cornwall

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Speaker 1: to the NATO summit in Brussels, where the conversation was

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Speaker 1: again focused on countries that were not in the room,

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Speaker 1: China and Russia. And we're joined today by Representative Abigail

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Speaker 1: Spanburger of Virginia, of former CIA agent who now serves

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Speaker 1: on the House Foreign Affairs Committee. Congresswoman, thank you for

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Speaker 1: being with us on Bloomberg sound On. Thank you so

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Speaker 1: much for having me. President Biden did not need to

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Speaker 1: say a lot in his message that he delivered today

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Speaker 1: a news conference that he held a short time ago

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Speaker 1: at NATO headquarters in Brussels, a starkly different message than

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Speaker 1: the one delivered by former President Trump, who threatened to

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Speaker 1: withdraw from NATO. He called the alliance obsolete. Congress from

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Speaker 1: of the Community k that was issued by NATO mentioned

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Speaker 1: cyber warfare, It mentions artificial intelligence, new missile technology. None

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Speaker 1: of those sound very obsolete. That's right. And what we

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Speaker 1: saw from President Biden's Preston for instance, certainly from the

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Speaker 1: results of this meeting, our world leaders who are focused

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Speaker 1: on contending with the threats that we face currently and

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Speaker 1: the threats that we anticipate facing into the future. And frankly,

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Speaker 1: we have recent examples between election interference, the solar wind

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Speaker 1: cyber attack, the attempt to murder opposition leader Mr Novelne.

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Speaker 1: We we have a clear view of the challenges that

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Speaker 1: we face as it relates to RUSSA shuff uh and UM,

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Speaker 1: and I was pleased to see world leaders um focused

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Speaker 1: on on how we will work together into the future

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Speaker 1: to contend with these threats. I'd like to hear from

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Speaker 1: President Biden from a short time ago. We have sound

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Speaker 1: on the President from Brussels talking about his meeting with

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Speaker 1: Vladimir Putin. That's of course set for Wednesday. This was

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Speaker 1: asked about more than any other issue, based on my

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Speaker 1: listening to this news conference, the President saying that he

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Speaker 1: will make clear that there are areas where we can cooperate.

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Speaker 1: I shared with our allies that I'll convey to President

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Speaker 1: I'll convey to President Putin. But I'm not looking for

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Speaker 1: conflict with Russia. But then we will respond of Russia

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Speaker 1: continues as harmful activities. So let's dig into Russia a

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Speaker 1: little bit here, Congresswoman, the NATO Community case ays, Russia's

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Speaker 1: aggressive actions constitute a threat to euro Atlantic security. Is

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Speaker 1: that a military threat or a cyber threat? Yeah, it's

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Speaker 1: in all of the above threat. It's a potentially military threat.

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Speaker 1: It's the cyber threat, you know, a threat to democratic

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Speaker 1: norms and a threat to the normal functioning of of

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Speaker 1: of countries as they are supposed to be engaging together.

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Speaker 1: And UM and certainly Russia's aggressive tactics towards the United States,

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Speaker 1: towards our our NATO allies are significant and UM and

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Speaker 1: continue to threaten not just uh, you know, the individual

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Speaker 1: nations of NATO, but but the UM the alliance altogether.

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Speaker 1: We have a story in the Bloomberg terminal right now

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Speaker 1: representative from our White House team. The headline is Biden's

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Speaker 1: goal with Putin don't let us Russian ties worsen. Is

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Speaker 1: that how we qualify success anything that doesn't make it worse?

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Speaker 1: You know? I I think there's probably some there's a

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Speaker 1: fair element to that, you know. I think that we

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Speaker 1: should go in UM with very UM straightforward standards. I

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Speaker 1: don't think that a meeting with an authoritarian leader who

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Speaker 1: sought to undermine our elections more than once, who has

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Speaker 1: attacked UH and hacked US UM US companies and sought

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Speaker 1: to you know, create UM the capabilities to undermine UM

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Speaker 1: government UH communication, I don't think that that is a

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Speaker 1: normal meeting where there are set forth goals and and

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Speaker 1: things that we look to achieve as measures of success.

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Speaker 1: I think that it's important that the President go into

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Speaker 1: that meeting from a position of strength, UH, make clear

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Speaker 1: what our American expectations of the Russian Federation, UH, stand

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Speaker 1: up for our elections and our democracy UM, and go

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Speaker 1: on from there, because so much of what President Biden

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Speaker 1: will or will not say is going to be predicated

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Speaker 1: on what President Putin does or does not say. So

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Speaker 1: I think the strategy of at this point, let's not

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Speaker 1: make the relationship worse, is uh. You know, certainly I

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Speaker 1: hope for more as as I'm sure the administration does, UM,

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Speaker 1: but I think so much will be dependent on, uh,

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Speaker 1: the way that President Putin comes to that meeting and frankly,

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Speaker 1: what what he's willing to discuss or where he's you know,

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Speaker 1: willing to meet us. We're talking with Congresswoman Abigail Spanburger

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Speaker 1: of Virginia here on Bloomberg Sound On. I'd like to

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Speaker 1: hear from Congressman Michael McCall, Republican of course from Texas,

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Speaker 1: was speaking on ABC's this Week about the meeting, suggesting

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Speaker 1: that the President Biden was approaching this meeting from a

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Speaker 1: position of weakness. He referred to America's UH capitulation on

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Speaker 1: on Russia's aggression, including the jailing and attempted poisoning of

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Speaker 1: Alexei Navanni, which came up in that news conference. Today

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Speaker 1: we have sound On. Michael McCall, you want to go

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Speaker 1: into these talks and position of strength, not of weakness.

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Speaker 1: I think he's going in a little bit out of

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Speaker 1: weakness because he's made all these concessions, including Congresswoman you

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Speaker 1: were a CIA agent, as I mentioned in a former life,

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Speaker 1: gives you a unique person factive. What kind of a

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Speaker 1: threat is Russia? Well, we walk into a meeting like

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Speaker 1: this based on what you just heard. Yeah, so the

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Speaker 1: Russia is a significant threat. UM. And and what I

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Speaker 1: know about this president is this president is going to

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Speaker 1: be and has been UM talking with intelligence professionals, talking

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Speaker 1: with diplomat, knowing full well everything the United States does

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Speaker 1: or doesn't know about Vladimir Putin as an individual, of

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Speaker 1: Vladimir Putin as a leader, and his plans and intentions.

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Speaker 1: And I just I I have to just remind people

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Speaker 1: that we had a former US president stand on stage

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Speaker 1: next to Vladimir Putin and say that he doubted U

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Speaker 1: S Intelligence Services, the CIA, the FBI, n s A,

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Speaker 1: and believed Vladimir Putin. UM. And so the fact that

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Speaker 1: we have President Biden going into this meeting, I is

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Speaker 1: wide open, having done his homework not just in advance

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Speaker 1: of this meeting, but frankly in his decades of work

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Speaker 1: on this is the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, UM, eyes

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Speaker 1: wide open about the person he is meeting, the type

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Speaker 1: of leader he is, the aggressive actions UM that he

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Speaker 1: has led against our country, uh and so I I

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Speaker 1: think that the difference couldn't be starker between President Biden

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Speaker 1: and and his predecessor when it comes to President Biden

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Speaker 1: walking into this meeting from an informed standpoint and from

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Speaker 1: a standpoint of strength, versus a leader who would sit

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Speaker 1: there and denigrate his own intelligence services in order to

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Speaker 1: play kate an authoritarian adversary. Let me ask you about China.

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Speaker 1: Congresswoman will pick through these one at a time. Russia

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Speaker 1: obviously is its own issue and will have its own

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Speaker 1: meeting this week. But China got a lot of talk

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Speaker 1: in this communicate coming out of the NATO meeting. It

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Speaker 1: reads China's growing influence and international policies can present challenges

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Speaker 1: that we need to address us together as an alliance.

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Speaker 1: It makes references to China's expanding navy and military operations.

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Speaker 1: Has NATO changed its tune on China? Where there was

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Speaker 1: barely a line on China the last summit in I

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Speaker 1: wouldn't say that NATO has changed its tune. I think

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Speaker 1: the difference is that in the past it was clear

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Speaker 1: that our NATO allies were unified. Our NATO allies were

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Speaker 1: um working together and focused on the same strategic mission

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Speaker 1: of of mutual defense and are the strength of our

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Speaker 1: member nations alliances, be they political, be they military, or

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Speaker 1: be the economic. Those were the underpinnings that allowed for

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Speaker 1: NATO to be a clear UM like powerful and or

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Speaker 1: strong and entity. UM. Some of that came into real doubt,

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Speaker 1: as you mentioned in the ends in the beginning portion

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Speaker 1: of the inter of you when mentioning what the former

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Speaker 1: president had said about NATO, his express doubts, his insults

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Speaker 1: towards the alliance. And so I think that when we

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Speaker 1: had nations the United States, UM, you know, prior to

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Speaker 1: the former president UM engaged as a true partner within NATO,

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Speaker 1: it isn't it wasn't as necessary to draw out all

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Speaker 1: of the line of challenges that we face with China,

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Speaker 1: because well it may also be that China is a

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Speaker 1: greater threat than it was. Also, you know, China has

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Speaker 1: been consistent in continuing to grow in its influence and

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Speaker 1: its efforts and its focus on building partnerships. Uh if

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Speaker 1: we see it through its vaccine diplomacy, certainly through its

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Speaker 1: Belton Road UM, we have seen China is laser focused

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Speaker 1: on strengthening its position in the world. At the extent

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Speaker 1: of other world leaders. UM. And what China doesn't have,

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Speaker 1: and what our strategic strength is is our partnership with

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Speaker 1: our NATO allies, with our other European allies, with UM,

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Speaker 1: you know, our our neighbors to the north and south.

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Speaker 1: These are the strengths that we as a nation have UM.

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Speaker 1: And so seeing President Biden out on the world stage, UM,

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Speaker 1: meeting with world leaders, asserting the strength of American leadership

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Speaker 1: again UM is incredibly important UM as a as a

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Speaker 1: foundational piece of our ability as a country at the

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Speaker 1: United States of America, but also as UM a leader

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Speaker 1: of others in in contending with and ever more aggressive UM.

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Speaker 1: And we're watching this unfold in real time here on

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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Radio. Congressowan Abigail Spanburger of Virginia, many thanks for

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Speaker 1: talking foreign policy with us today on Bloomberg sound On.

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Speaker 1: I'm Joe Matthew live from Washington. Thank you for joining

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Speaker 1: us some Bloomberg sound on. One of the biggest issues

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Speaker 1: talked about at the g even over the weekend was

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Speaker 1: a minimum corporate tax rate, which finance chiefs endorsed, and

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Speaker 1: there are other details to be worked out. Here's President

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Speaker 1: Biden with sound on from the G seven disagreement's going

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Speaker 1: to help arrest the race to the bottom that's been

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Speaker 1: going on among nations, attracting UH corporate investment at the

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Speaker 1: expense of priorities like protecting our workers and investing in infrastructure.

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Speaker 1: It could generate a hundred fifty billion dollars for world governments.

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Speaker 1: According to Bloomberg, this fifteen percent minimum corporate tax but

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Speaker 1: at tax screening of big tech companies this morning on

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Speaker 1: the Bloomberg terminal is giving us a better sense of

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Speaker 1: which companies could take the hardest hit if this happens.

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Speaker 1: And joining us to talk about it is Bloomberg reporter

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Speaker 1: Laura Davison, a specialist on taxes. Thanks for being here, Laura,

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Speaker 1: good Monday. Thanks for having me. I'm going to name

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Speaker 1: some names here, but Laura, it's important to set the

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Speaker 1: backdrop right. The fact is G seven countries have been

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Speaker 1: cutting taxes in recent years, and none more than the US,

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Speaker 1: So this represents a big change. Yes, you know, for

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Speaker 1: years countries have been competing with each other saying, look,

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Speaker 1: you know, we'll offer you a better tax rates, more

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Speaker 1: tax incentives if you come to US. Ireland has really

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Speaker 1: been the big winner here and just in the past

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Speaker 1: couple of years, and particularly after the pandemic, countries are

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Speaker 1: looking around, they realize they need more revenue and this

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Speaker 1: whole race to the bottom on corporate taxation isn't really

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Speaker 1: serving their purposes. It isn't generating new investment, and just

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Speaker 1: just sort of reallocating, uh, you know, where all the

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Speaker 1: companies are going, and they're going to the lowest tax companies.

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Speaker 1: So every when it came to the table and said, look,

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Speaker 1: let's set a minimum rate no matter where in the world,

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Speaker 1: people are at least a fifteen percent tax rate. And

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Speaker 1: this will end a lot of the tax accounting tricks

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Speaker 1: that have been happening for years. So layer on the

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Speaker 1: and some companies it looks like, could feel a much

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Speaker 1: bigger impact, including some highly profitable multinational companies that pay

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Speaker 1: relatively low rates. They're gonna sound familiar. Bloomberg screening brings

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Speaker 1: up names like InVID you, the chip designer has been

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Speaker 1: a darling on Wall Street, and ten Cent, another one

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Speaker 1: of the Chinese internet companies. These are two of the

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Speaker 1: hottest growth stocks on Wall Street. Yes, and this would really,

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Speaker 1: you know, be a huge game changer here. You know. Also,

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Speaker 1: Apple has traditionally had a very low tax rate. They

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Speaker 1: would also get caught up in this. Another one that

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Speaker 1: isn't on the list, but it is really, you know,

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Speaker 1: kind of in the site of all the policy makers

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Speaker 1: here is Amazon. They have low tax rates, but they

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Speaker 1: also have a relatively through a low profit margin. And

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Speaker 1: that's another one of the criteria that they're uh, that

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Speaker 1: the policy makers are using to determine who will tax

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Speaker 1: Amazon because you know, on one side of the business

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Speaker 1: there retailer. On the other side, they have their very

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Speaker 1: profitable cloud business or trying to find a way that

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Speaker 1: they can get Amazon roped into this just base based

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Speaker 1: on their you know, tech side of the business and

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Speaker 1: and be the retail side out of that. H. This

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Speaker 1: is proving to be a very thorny issue in a

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Speaker 1: political hot topic around the globe. So investors then, from

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Speaker 1: that perspective, the investment perspective, would have to do their homework.

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Speaker 1: It's not just that all big growth companies would be

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Speaker 1: taken down by this. Yeah, And you can see from

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Speaker 1: the company side, they're looking at their own profile. They're

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Speaker 1: you know, where their tax what their tax rate is uh,

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Speaker 1: and and trying to figure out how they could get

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Speaker 1: out of scope here that they could could dodge this tax.

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Speaker 1: And this is gonna be this game of cat and

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Speaker 1: mouse for the next next several months as they kind

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Speaker 1: of figure out what the final rules are going to

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Speaker 1: be here, and then as countries go to actually implement this,

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Speaker 1: they're going to be figuring out, you know, how do

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Speaker 1: we get you know, we might get hit with this tax,

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Speaker 1: but how do we minimize the blunt to the impact.

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Speaker 1: As we talked with Bloomberg reporter Laura Davison, let's talk

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Speaker 1: more about the where what happens to companies based in

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Speaker 1: places like you mentioned Ireland, how about Singapore, Switzerland? Would

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Speaker 1: that be even worse? Yeah, so you know, so these

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Speaker 1: kind uh so, these companies based in in those countries

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Speaker 1: with lower taxes, they would see their you know, their

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Speaker 1: effective tax rates go up if this plan, you know,

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Speaker 1: it gets implemented it as envisioned, you know, in places

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Speaker 1: where they have the lowest tax rates. So kind of

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Speaker 1: the your classic tax havens, places like Bermuda, Cayman Islands

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Speaker 1: where there's zero percent, incorporate those, you know, your cruise companies.

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Speaker 1: They're gonna get hit really hard by this. You know

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Speaker 1: in some places like uh like or like Ireland, where

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Speaker 1: the rate is know falve and a half percent, they

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Speaker 1: see a slight increase, but maybe they say, you know,

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Speaker 1: look in some other countries we have some higher tax stuff.

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Speaker 1: We have some stuff and some higher tax companies will

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Speaker 1: move that to Ireland. There's a way to game the

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Speaker 1: system here. The point, however, is that it's a lot.

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Speaker 1: There's a lot left deeming that can go on. There's

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Speaker 1: more of an even playing field right now. The playing

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Speaker 1: field is it's all over the place with lots of

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Speaker 1: places to get a trip and fall. So Laura is

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Speaker 1: Capitol Hill. The reality check here, none of this is done, right.

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Speaker 1: Do we have any reason to believe that Republicans and

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Speaker 1: Congress will sign off on afcent minimum tax. None of

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Speaker 1: this is done. All we have right now is an

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Speaker 1: agreement to agree to something at some point at some

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Speaker 1: later dates. Once they get a high level political agreement,

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Speaker 1: it has to get through Congress. Republicans have already basically

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Speaker 1: said no, we're not voting for this, we don't support

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Speaker 1: uh this this plan, and so it will have to

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Speaker 1: pass on Democratics boats alone and as we all know,

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Speaker 1: super tight majorities. Uh so this is going to be

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Speaker 1: really be Uh you know, that's something that Pelosi and

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Speaker 1: Schumer are going to have to figure out how they're

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Speaker 1: going to get it through. And you know, appeas to

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Speaker 1: people like Mansion and send that have been wary of

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Speaker 1: tax increases across the board. Remembering President Biden proposed hiking

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Speaker 1: the tax rate to twenty eight for the U. S.

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Speaker 1: Tax rate for infrastructure, and that's been deemed a redline

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Speaker 1: for Republicans. It puts a little perspective on the fifteen

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Speaker 1: percent number. Yeah, and the US is still planning to

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Speaker 1: move forward with you, assuming you could get through Congress.

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Speaker 1: So we're gonna see, you know, lots of rates changing.

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Speaker 1: They're not all going to be the same. But the

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Speaker 1: U S. Says, look, well, you know, at least it's

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Speaker 1: with Democrats say this is a really good place to

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Speaker 1: do business. You know, people will will still do business

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Speaker 1: here even if our rate is a little bit higher,

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Speaker 1: or even sometis is a lot bit higher than than

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Speaker 1: what the minimum would be elsewhere in other countries. Our

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Speaker 1: producer on Bloomberg Sound On, Christine Baratta, told me you

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Speaker 1: were the expert on this, Laura, and you are. I'm

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Speaker 1: so glad that you could come into talk to us

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Speaker 1: about it. This is a big story that's going to

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Speaker 1: be going, likely for many more weeks, and we love

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Speaker 1: to stay in touch with you as we learn more.

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Speaker 1: We're joined by our panel on Bloomberg Sound On, of course,

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Speaker 1: that would be Bloomberg Politics contributor Jennie she and Say No.

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Speaker 1: And today we're joined as well by Boyd Mathieson, former

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Speaker 1: chief staff for Senator Mike Lee. Great to have both

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Speaker 1: of you with us, Good Monday. I always learn a

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Speaker 1: lot by listening to the questions at these news conferences,

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Speaker 1: and today the most frequent question was about Wednesday's meeting

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Speaker 1: with Vladimir Putin. Maybe we should not be surprised by that, genie,

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Speaker 1: but everybody's trying to telegraph what's going to happen in

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Speaker 1: this thing, and President Biden is keeping his cards close

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Speaker 1: to the vest. He is he is, and I think,

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Speaker 1: you know, that's the question I would have asked him

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Speaker 1: as well, because this is really, you know, sort of

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Speaker 1: the culmination of this entire trip. What I think we're

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Speaker 1: hearing from President Biden today and what we heard from

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Speaker 1: the Secretary of Stay over the weekend was they are

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Speaker 1: really number one trying to make the case that there's

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Speaker 1: not going to be deliverables out of this meeting, but

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Speaker 1: more importantly that they are not looking to confront Russia.

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Speaker 1: They're not looking to confront Putin. They want to try

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Speaker 1: to work with him. And this is what I'm very

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Speaker 1: curious about, because, on the one hand, I think there's

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Speaker 1: expectation that Joe Biden will be tougher on Puttin than

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Speaker 1: Donald Trump was, and we no got a lot of

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Speaker 1: criticism for being too soft on Russia. But by the

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Speaker 1: same token, you listen to Blinkln, you listen to Biden

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Speaker 1: over the weekend, and today we're hearing an awful lot

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Speaker 1: about wanting to find common ground, and so I'm curious

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Speaker 1: to see how that is received. And I would just

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Speaker 1: add that, you know, you have some European countries who

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Speaker 1: are concerned that Biden wants to sort of skip over

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Speaker 1: Russia and get to China as our biggest threat, and

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Speaker 1: in doing so, is missing the threat that Russia and

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Speaker 1: Putin really pose. Boyd Matheson, It's good to have you

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Speaker 1: with us. Vladimir Putin, I believe has spoken with five

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Speaker 1: sat down, spoken with five US presidents. No one expects much,

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Speaker 1: if anything to come from this. So what's the point

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Speaker 1: for sitting down in the same room. Is this going

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Speaker 1: to be a staring contest? You know? I think it's important,

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Speaker 1: especially for many of our allies, to see this kind

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Speaker 1: of engagement. I think Jennie alluded to a lot of

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Speaker 1: the things in terms of Putin the word matter, that

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Speaker 1: the engagement matters if we don't engage. I think signaling

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Speaker 1: that we're just going to focus on China would actually

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Speaker 1: give Putin a lot of latitude to continue to do

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Speaker 1: many of the things he is already doing that we

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Speaker 1: should confront him on. I do think the President has

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Speaker 1: taken an approach of we starting with the G seven

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Speaker 1: and the NATO and and so it's very much a

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Speaker 1: WEE conversation rolling into Vladimir Putin as opposed to a

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Speaker 1: monoa mono US versus Russia kind of conversation. I do

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Speaker 1: know that one grumbling coming out from both the G

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Speaker 1: seven and NATO allies is that the the administration may

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Speaker 1: have made a little verbal mistake in in labeling the

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Speaker 1: Putin conversation as a summit, thus elevating it in the

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Speaker 1: eyes of some and giving Putin a stage to to

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Speaker 1: do some of his work. From so, a lot of

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Speaker 1: interesting things to continue to watch their Yeah, the optics

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Speaker 1: are really something. If you follow this type of thing,

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Speaker 1: you call it a summit, and there won't even be

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Speaker 1: a bilateral news conference after Reginie. We talked about this,

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Speaker 1: I believe on Friday it appears is that President Biden

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Speaker 1: will in fact meet the press alone after they meet.

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Speaker 1: What kind of a signal is that? I think it

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Speaker 1: is to sort of address what what you and Boyd

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Speaker 1: we're just talking about, which is this concern among some

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Speaker 1: of our European allies that he again is not you know,

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Speaker 1: sort of rewarding, if you will, Vladimir Putin after some

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Speaker 1: really deplorable behavior on his part. So I think they

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Speaker 1: don't want to put Biden on the same stage with

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Speaker 1: Putin for that reason. They also don't want to repeat

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Speaker 1: of an earlier quote unquote summit with Trump and and Putin.

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Speaker 1: So I think they're I think it's a smart move

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Speaker 1: not to put them together. But you know, I would

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Speaker 1: just add here that you know, Joe Biden I think

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Speaker 1: has a tougher challenge here than than Putin. He has

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Speaker 1: got to address Putin and address a host of issues.

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Speaker 1: I mean, the list I was putting together today of issues,

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Speaker 1: and there's like twenty key issues he has to address

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Speaker 1: him with, and yet he also wants to try to

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Speaker 1: find this common ground and sort of threading that needle.

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Speaker 1: Is going to be very, very tough in the face

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Speaker 1: of these European allies and the NATO and the G

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Speaker 1: seven members who want him to be tough on Russia,

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Speaker 1: as do many people in his own party here at home. Well, Boyd,

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Speaker 1: there's Russia and then there's China, and I would like

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Speaker 1: to hear from you quickly on this after reading the document,

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Speaker 1: the communicate that came out of the NATO meeting that

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Speaker 1: points to China's growing influence and international policies. It says

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Speaker 1: can present challenges that we need to address together as

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Speaker 1: an alliance. It refers to China's growing military, it's growing navy,

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Speaker 1: and this appears to be as important to NATO as

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Speaker 1: it is the threat from Russia, Boyd, which has you

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Speaker 1: more worried? Yeah, you know, they're they're both really concerning.

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Speaker 1: The Russian one is more or a little under the

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Speaker 1: radar right now, as China seems to be on the ascent.

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Speaker 1: But I think in terms of our our allies and alliances,

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Speaker 1: I think this is such an interesting period of time

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Speaker 1: because if you look just from the United States standpoint,

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Speaker 1: of course, we've got to go head to head with

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Speaker 1: Russia on a host of things. You've got to go

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Speaker 1: head to head China on a host of things. And

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Speaker 1: yet we need both of those countries if we're going

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Speaker 1: to deal with places like North Korea. Uh. And so

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Speaker 1: this is a really interesting time for international leadership, and

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Speaker 1: it is really being able to navigate allies and alliances Who, what,

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Speaker 1: when and where is really the key leadership challenge. I

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Speaker 1: think for the Biden administration, Well, so, Jeannie, then well

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Speaker 1: why don't we advance that ball just a little bit?

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Speaker 1: What should President Biden? And if so, if yes, when

432
00:23:28,840 --> 00:23:31,920
Speaker 1: should he be meeting with the president of China. I

433
00:23:31,960 --> 00:23:35,560
Speaker 1: think he should. I think conversation is always important, but

434
00:23:35,680 --> 00:23:38,639
Speaker 1: I think that's going to be a little ways off. Um,

435
00:23:38,840 --> 00:23:41,960
Speaker 1: you know, I think this this meeting to sort of

436
00:23:42,000 --> 00:23:44,600
Speaker 1: re establish our ties and to show, as he keeps saying,

437
00:23:44,640 --> 00:23:46,800
Speaker 1: that America is back and we're going to be working

438
00:23:46,800 --> 00:23:50,400
Speaker 1: with our allies is critical. The China question, I think

439
00:23:50,520 --> 00:23:52,879
Speaker 1: is fascinating because for a long time I've been saying

440
00:23:52,960 --> 00:23:56,720
Speaker 1: that it was hard for me to differentiate Biden's sort

441
00:23:56,720 --> 00:23:59,680
Speaker 1: of approach to China versus Trump's. There didn't seem to

442
00:23:59,720 --> 00:24:02,280
Speaker 1: be a lot of space there, but I think with

443
00:24:02,480 --> 00:24:06,320
Speaker 1: this week we are starting to see some differences there,

444
00:24:06,600 --> 00:24:10,360
Speaker 1: and I think in particular, we see him with this

445
00:24:10,480 --> 00:24:13,720
Speaker 1: Build Back Better World, I think is a fascinating way

446
00:24:13,760 --> 00:24:16,640
Speaker 1: for him to try to compete with the Belton Road initiative.

447
00:24:16,680 --> 00:24:18,240
Speaker 1: Now it's a long way off. We don't know what

448
00:24:18,359 --> 00:24:20,280
Speaker 1: it's going to be fully funded or what's going to happen,

449
00:24:20,520 --> 00:24:23,159
Speaker 1: but that's a you know, in this communic a and

450
00:24:23,240 --> 00:24:26,040
Speaker 1: I think those kinds of approaches where he's trying to

451
00:24:26,160 --> 00:24:29,159
Speaker 1: use that Endless Frontier bill that's moving through Congress and

452
00:24:29,320 --> 00:24:32,520
Speaker 1: sort of invite our allies to come in, that I

453
00:24:32,560 --> 00:24:35,560
Speaker 1: think is a really important distinction between the sort of

454
00:24:36,480 --> 00:24:40,480
Speaker 1: approach we saw the previous administration taking visa of each China,

455
00:24:40,520 --> 00:24:43,160
Speaker 1: which had to do with more punishment, more sanctions, more

456
00:24:43,200 --> 00:24:46,760
Speaker 1: trade limitations of Joe Matthew live from Washington. Thanks for

457
00:24:46,880 --> 00:24:50,240
Speaker 1: joining us as we return to the nation's capital where

458
00:24:50,280 --> 00:24:53,719
Speaker 1: they're back House members flying back into town today with

459
00:24:54,280 --> 00:24:57,439
Speaker 1: along to do lists and not very much time. We're

460
00:24:57,440 --> 00:24:59,160
Speaker 1: going to dig into that list a little bit here

461
00:24:59,200 --> 00:25:03,080
Speaker 1: with Blue Bird Politics contributor Genie she and Zano and

462
00:25:03,200 --> 00:25:05,679
Speaker 1: Boyd Matheson with us as well today. Former chief of

463
00:25:05,720 --> 00:25:08,679
Speaker 1: staff for Senator Mike Lee, thanks for spending some time

464
00:25:08,800 --> 00:25:10,480
Speaker 1: with us, both of you. I'd like to start with

465
00:25:10,600 --> 00:25:13,840
Speaker 1: police reform, since it doesn't get as much talk as

466
00:25:13,880 --> 00:25:16,600
Speaker 1: some of the other priorities right now, and it's been

467
00:25:16,640 --> 00:25:20,760
Speaker 1: a long road. President Biden wanted a police reform bill,

468
00:25:20,880 --> 00:25:24,160
Speaker 1: essentially a version of the George Floyd Justice and Policing

469
00:25:24,160 --> 00:25:30,760
Speaker 1: Activity done by the deadline the anniversary of George Floyd's death.

470
00:25:30,800 --> 00:25:34,760
Speaker 1: We're still talking about this, Genie qualified immunity remains the

471
00:25:34,800 --> 00:25:38,280
Speaker 1: sticking point. Is this going anywhere? I I do think

472
00:25:38,359 --> 00:25:41,160
Speaker 1: there is a chance that this moves forward. I think

473
00:25:41,200 --> 00:25:43,720
Speaker 1: there is the will to do this, but of course

474
00:25:43,760 --> 00:25:47,680
Speaker 1: the calendar always works against these bills in the summer,

475
00:25:47,720 --> 00:25:50,159
Speaker 1: you know. I think if it doesn't get done in

476
00:25:50,400 --> 00:25:54,320
Speaker 1: the next I would say four weeks, we're gonna see

477
00:25:54,320 --> 00:25:57,000
Speaker 1: it slow down dramatically. But I do still have hope

478
00:25:57,040 --> 00:25:59,359
Speaker 1: on this one. You've got a lot of good people,

479
00:25:59,400 --> 00:26:02,399
Speaker 1: including him, Scott on the Republican side, Corey Book or

480
00:26:02,480 --> 00:26:05,479
Speaker 1: Karen Bass, all working together on this. And so I

481
00:26:05,520 --> 00:26:07,600
Speaker 1: think there is a will and let's not forget under

482
00:26:07,640 --> 00:26:11,680
Speaker 1: the Trump administration there was a police reform bill as well. Boy,

483
00:26:11,760 --> 00:26:13,520
Speaker 1: we've seen this play out on the state level in

484
00:26:13,560 --> 00:26:16,600
Speaker 1: a number of instances around the country and kind of

485
00:26:16,680 --> 00:26:19,160
Speaker 1: similar fashion where there was a big rush to get

486
00:26:19,200 --> 00:26:21,199
Speaker 1: something done over the summer when this was the biggest

487
00:26:21,240 --> 00:26:24,720
Speaker 1: story in the country following George Floyd's death. Then the

488
00:26:24,760 --> 00:26:29,040
Speaker 1: debate kind of waned as we got into different ideas here,

489
00:26:29,320 --> 00:26:32,480
Speaker 1: and qualified immunity is what happened to slow this down

490
00:26:32,520 --> 00:26:36,400
Speaker 1: in many cases. The sticking point is as lawmakers try

491
00:26:36,440 --> 00:26:40,359
Speaker 1: to make this passable for Republicans in the Senate, where

492
00:26:40,400 --> 00:26:43,439
Speaker 1: is this if anywhere? You know, I think this is

493
00:26:43,560 --> 00:26:46,040
Speaker 1: very indicative of something that we've become all too comfortable

494
00:26:46,040 --> 00:26:48,240
Speaker 1: within the country, and that is that we're really good

495
00:26:48,280 --> 00:26:52,320
Speaker 1: at moments, but we're really lousy and forward movement, and

496
00:26:52,520 --> 00:26:54,360
Speaker 1: a lot of that is the politics of it all.

497
00:26:54,400 --> 00:26:58,000
Speaker 1: And so last summer is, as you rightly said, Joe, Uh,

498
00:26:58,040 --> 00:27:00,480
Speaker 1: there were a lot of moments, a lot of together

499
00:27:00,520 --> 00:27:02,400
Speaker 1: a lot of standing in front of cameras, a lot

500
00:27:02,400 --> 00:27:05,800
Speaker 1: of photo ops that everybody's going to come together around this.

501
00:27:06,119 --> 00:27:08,280
Speaker 1: But of course the hard work and heavy lifting always

502
00:27:08,320 --> 00:27:10,800
Speaker 1: takes place far away from from the spotlights and the

503
00:27:10,840 --> 00:27:13,480
Speaker 1: cameras and the microphones. And I do think it is

504
00:27:13,520 --> 00:27:16,280
Speaker 1: that qualified immunity that is going to be the sticking point.

505
00:27:16,320 --> 00:27:19,119
Speaker 1: I I am like Genie, I am hopeful because of

506
00:27:19,160 --> 00:27:22,800
Speaker 1: people like Tim Scott, because of Corey Booker uh and others,

507
00:27:22,840 --> 00:27:25,800
Speaker 1: and the fact that this group has been together recently,

508
00:27:26,160 --> 00:27:29,760
Speaker 1: as was mentioned during the Donald Trump administration, to get

509
00:27:29,800 --> 00:27:34,400
Speaker 1: some significant criminal justice reform done. I am hopeful that

510
00:27:34,440 --> 00:27:37,320
Speaker 1: those same players will come together and say, Hey, this

511
00:27:37,400 --> 00:27:39,480
Speaker 1: is this is something that we can do, this is

512
00:27:39,480 --> 00:27:42,359
Speaker 1: something we should do, and so let's just get it done. Genie,

513
00:27:42,359 --> 00:27:44,399
Speaker 1: maybe a better way of asking this is can can

514
00:27:44,440 --> 00:27:47,920
Speaker 1: you can you remove qualified immunity, which of course protects

515
00:27:47,920 --> 00:27:52,479
Speaker 1: police who are being sued for alleged abuse. Can you

516
00:27:52,520 --> 00:27:58,520
Speaker 1: remove immunity and still receive money from police unions? I

517
00:27:58,560 --> 00:28:01,159
Speaker 1: hate to go straight for the jugular here, but is

518
00:28:01,200 --> 00:28:03,600
Speaker 1: this not what we're talking about? For many lawmakers who

519
00:28:03,600 --> 00:28:08,800
Speaker 1: rely on endorsements as well as funding they do, it's

520
00:28:08,920 --> 00:28:11,080
Speaker 1: it's a huge issue. And you see this when you

521
00:28:11,119 --> 00:28:14,160
Speaker 1: talk about unions of all kinds, not just police unions, teachers,

522
00:28:14,240 --> 00:28:17,600
Speaker 1: unions as well. So I do think there is a way.

523
00:28:17,920 --> 00:28:23,080
Speaker 1: It's obviously a huge sticking point. It's been incredibly controversial. Um.

524
00:28:23,119 --> 00:28:25,359
Speaker 1: You know, there is a school of thought on the

525
00:28:25,400 --> 00:28:29,480
Speaker 1: more Republican side that if you make police officers personally

526
00:28:29,560 --> 00:28:33,879
Speaker 1: liable for misconduct while they're working, it's going to mitigate

527
00:28:34,000 --> 00:28:37,560
Speaker 1: hamper their their work out on the street, especially when

528
00:28:37,600 --> 00:28:40,320
Speaker 1: they need to be making really tough decisions. I do

529
00:28:40,480 --> 00:28:43,440
Speaker 1: think that people on all sides can understand the concern there,

530
00:28:43,680 --> 00:28:46,920
Speaker 1: as can those advocates for qualified immunity to be removed,

531
00:28:47,200 --> 00:28:49,400
Speaker 1: because of course it's left these people on the ground.

532
00:28:49,560 --> 00:28:51,920
Speaker 1: So I do think there is a way around it,

533
00:28:52,000 --> 00:28:54,840
Speaker 1: but I'm not sure we get there at this point.

534
00:28:54,840 --> 00:28:57,560
Speaker 1: I don't know Republicans will support a bill if that's

535
00:28:57,880 --> 00:29:01,680
Speaker 1: if that's in there, is that a deal breaker? BOYT, Yeah,

536
00:29:01,680 --> 00:29:03,800
Speaker 1: I think Jimmy's right on this one, and and she's

537
00:29:03,840 --> 00:29:05,800
Speaker 1: right on two points. One. I think it could be

538
00:29:05,840 --> 00:29:08,760
Speaker 1: the deal breaker. I also think the shot clock is

539
00:29:08,760 --> 00:29:11,080
Speaker 1: going to be the harder thing as we get towards

540
00:29:11,080 --> 00:29:13,600
Speaker 1: that summer recess and in state work period, for most

541
00:29:13,640 --> 00:29:16,040
Speaker 1: of these folks, they're gonna they're gonna be back at

542
00:29:16,080 --> 00:29:19,000
Speaker 1: home and the shot clock just does not favor getting

543
00:29:19,040 --> 00:29:21,480
Speaker 1: this done quickly. I always love you know, it's a

544
00:29:21,520 --> 00:29:24,280
Speaker 1: true Washingtonian when you hear reference to the in state

545
00:29:24,320 --> 00:29:27,920
Speaker 1: work period or the home district work period as opposed

546
00:29:27,920 --> 00:29:33,520
Speaker 1: to recess. But look, that's right. How about infrastructure. This

547
00:29:33,600 --> 00:29:35,080
Speaker 1: is the big one, and of course we talked about

548
00:29:35,080 --> 00:29:38,120
Speaker 1: it just about every day around here. Where are we, Genie,

549
00:29:38,160 --> 00:29:40,760
Speaker 1: I'll start with you. The one point two trillion dollar

550
00:29:40,800 --> 00:29:44,000
Speaker 1: proposal by this group of bipartisan senators came out while

551
00:29:44,000 --> 00:29:47,160
Speaker 1: we were on the air last Thursday. Hadn't gone anywhere really,

552
00:29:47,200 --> 00:29:49,560
Speaker 1: Granted it hasn't been a long period of time. But

553
00:29:49,600 --> 00:29:53,280
Speaker 1: some wonder if this is actually being seriously considered by

554
00:29:53,280 --> 00:29:56,920
Speaker 1: the White House. Yeah, and I love to talk infrastructure, Joe,

555
00:29:56,920 --> 00:29:58,920
Speaker 1: you can know that. So I have no problem with

556
00:29:58,960 --> 00:30:04,000
Speaker 1: infrastructure summer. But I do think it is being seriously considered. Um.

557
00:30:04,040 --> 00:30:06,800
Speaker 1: I do think the White House is thinking that they

558
00:30:06,920 --> 00:30:09,280
Speaker 1: may want to do these things, as we've discussed in

559
00:30:09,360 --> 00:30:12,440
Speaker 1: two pieces. One, if they can work with this group

560
00:30:12,440 --> 00:30:16,320
Speaker 1: of ten senators Republican and Democrat to get ten Republicans along,

561
00:30:16,400 --> 00:30:18,960
Speaker 1: that they do the quote unquote hard infrastructure in this

562
00:30:19,000 --> 00:30:22,120
Speaker 1: bill that requires though, that they're able to get a

563
00:30:22,160 --> 00:30:24,920
Speaker 1: promise out of people at Kristen Cinema and Joe Manin

564
00:30:25,240 --> 00:30:28,120
Speaker 1: that they will go along with the second softer if

565
00:30:28,160 --> 00:30:31,680
Speaker 1: you will Bill Um on reconciliation. And that is a

566
00:30:31,720 --> 00:30:34,240
Speaker 1: big if. But I do think the White House we're

567
00:30:34,240 --> 00:30:37,200
Speaker 1: seeing some signs they're cautiously optimistic. I would say they're

568
00:30:37,240 --> 00:30:39,640
Speaker 1: more optimistic than I am. I don't think we're going

569
00:30:39,680 --> 00:30:41,440
Speaker 1: to get there, but we are hearing that they are

570
00:30:41,520 --> 00:30:45,240
Speaker 1: at least positive about this latest offer. I'm sure you

571
00:30:45,280 --> 00:30:48,280
Speaker 1: have a take on this board one point two trillion dollars.

572
00:30:49,080 --> 00:30:51,520
Speaker 1: We talk about reconciliation like it's a real life of

573
00:30:51,600 --> 00:30:54,760
Speaker 1: a Democrats still on how those votes? Yeah, that's right,

574
00:30:54,800 --> 00:30:57,600
Speaker 1: the votes still aren't there. And but but at least

575
00:30:57,640 --> 00:30:59,800
Speaker 1: we're getting to the point where we can talk specifics

576
00:30:59,800 --> 00:31:01,680
Speaker 1: and we can actually come to an agreement on what

577
00:31:01,840 --> 00:31:04,959
Speaker 1: infrastructure is and is not. And I think dividing this

578
00:31:05,000 --> 00:31:06,880
Speaker 1: into two bills, I actually think it should be done

579
00:31:06,880 --> 00:31:10,040
Speaker 1: in three bills, uh too, really laser focus and then

580
00:31:10,080 --> 00:31:14,520
Speaker 1: have real open debate, real amendment process, and real accountable

581
00:31:14,600 --> 00:31:17,120
Speaker 1: votes in front of the American people and not just

582
00:31:17,280 --> 00:31:18,959
Speaker 1: you know, a gang of five or a gang attend

583
00:31:19,640 --> 00:31:22,600
Speaker 1: behind closed doors. You know, we've we've been debating out

584
00:31:22,640 --> 00:31:25,640
Speaker 1: here in the state of Utah of the jazz beating

585
00:31:25,680 --> 00:31:28,800
Speaker 1: the l A Clippers was part of the infrastructure, critical

586
00:31:28,840 --> 00:31:32,240
Speaker 1: infrastructure for the downtown area here. And I we think

587
00:31:32,280 --> 00:31:34,120
Speaker 1: it is, by the way, just that you're keeping the

588
00:31:34,160 --> 00:31:36,960
Speaker 1: score at home. Uh. So, how do you cut these

589
00:31:36,960 --> 00:31:40,280
Speaker 1: into bills? You said three bills? So do you want

590
00:31:40,360 --> 00:31:43,479
Speaker 1: Rhodes bridges tunnels and one of them? Uh? And and

591
00:31:43,520 --> 00:31:47,560
Speaker 1: then various forms or various definitions of infrastructure and the

592
00:31:47,600 --> 00:31:51,080
Speaker 1: others yes, yeah, then getting into into those kinds of things,

593
00:31:51,120 --> 00:31:53,080
Speaker 1: and then dealing with the other parts in terms of

594
00:31:53,120 --> 00:31:55,000
Speaker 1: tax reform and some of the other things in terms

595
00:31:55,000 --> 00:31:58,920
Speaker 1: of healthcare that are clearly a different kind of infrastructure.

596
00:31:58,960 --> 00:32:00,480
Speaker 1: To be sure, I should be in a in a

597
00:32:00,560 --> 00:32:05,040
Speaker 1: third charge. I'm gonna throw a wild card at both

598
00:32:05,080 --> 00:32:08,000
Speaker 1: of you guys. Here. We've got a Federal Reserve meeting

599
00:32:08,160 --> 00:32:10,960
Speaker 1: this week. Some people think it's a snoozer. Some people

600
00:32:11,000 --> 00:32:13,480
Speaker 1: think it's going to be critically important on the road

601
00:32:13,480 --> 00:32:16,920
Speaker 1: ahead for interest rates and for the stock market, for

602
00:32:16,920 --> 00:32:20,600
Speaker 1: financials of all sorts. I wonder about the political side

603
00:32:20,600 --> 00:32:24,560
Speaker 1: of this genie. Should President Biden start worrying about rising

604
00:32:24,640 --> 00:32:27,560
Speaker 1: interest rates? Could they put the economic recovery at risk

605
00:32:27,680 --> 00:32:31,600
Speaker 1: just as we're getting into something good. I do think

606
00:32:31,640 --> 00:32:34,040
Speaker 1: he should be concerned. And I know that that's not

607
00:32:34,120 --> 00:32:37,200
Speaker 1: a very popular opinion amongst certain parts, but I do

608
00:32:37,320 --> 00:32:40,600
Speaker 1: think he should be concerned about both inflation and higher

609
00:32:40,640 --> 00:32:44,760
Speaker 1: interest rates. Um. You know, he he is walking a

610
00:32:44,880 --> 00:32:48,760
Speaker 1: very fine line here. Um, he is asking for, you know,

611
00:32:49,160 --> 00:32:53,600
Speaker 1: altogether about four trillion dollars in spending, and of course

612
00:32:53,680 --> 00:32:56,959
Speaker 1: you're talking about, you know, massive tax increases if they

613
00:32:56,960 --> 00:32:59,880
Speaker 1: can pass it to pay for that. Um, that becomes

614
00:33:00,000 --> 00:33:02,560
Speaker 1: out much harder if we see rising inflation and we

615
00:33:02,640 --> 00:33:05,120
Speaker 1: see rising interest rates. So I do think he's got

616
00:33:05,120 --> 00:33:07,000
Speaker 1: to be concerned. And again this gets back to what

617
00:33:07,080 --> 00:33:11,000
Speaker 1: Boyd was saying about the clock that becomes critical here. Well,

618
00:33:11,040 --> 00:33:15,640
Speaker 1: we've got unprecedented stimulus already in the system, board unprecedented

619
00:33:15,720 --> 00:33:19,360
Speaker 1: levels of liquidity. We're talking about another one point two

620
00:33:19,440 --> 00:33:23,440
Speaker 1: trillion here. Interest rates sure look like they want to move.

621
00:33:23,760 --> 00:33:26,240
Speaker 1: How much of a risk is that for a recovery

622
00:33:26,280 --> 00:33:29,320
Speaker 1: if you're running this White House? Yeah, I think the

623
00:33:29,320 --> 00:33:32,320
Speaker 1: biggest challenge of the recovery would be if we just

624
00:33:32,360 --> 00:33:35,480
Speaker 1: continue on that that rate in terms not just in

625
00:33:35,600 --> 00:33:38,880
Speaker 1: terms of interest, but more importantly in terms of the inflation.

626
00:33:39,600 --> 00:33:42,360
Speaker 1: I think nothing will cause the American people to recoil

627
00:33:42,480 --> 00:33:45,320
Speaker 1: a little more coming out of a pandemic. Uh, then

628
00:33:45,360 --> 00:33:47,960
Speaker 1: if they really see those inflation rates soaring, and so

629
00:33:48,000 --> 00:33:50,440
Speaker 1: to me, that's the It is a double edged sword,

630
00:33:50,440 --> 00:33:52,520
Speaker 1: to be sure, but I think we've we've got to

631
00:33:52,560 --> 00:33:56,000
Speaker 1: be careful in terms of the inflation because if that stumblers,

632
00:33:56,040 --> 00:33:59,240
Speaker 1: if that stalls the economy, then the administration is going

633
00:33:59,280 --> 00:34:01,520
Speaker 1: to have more issues and they will know what to

634
00:34:01,600 --> 00:34:04,200
Speaker 1: deal with, and it will be timed, uh to hit

635
00:34:04,320 --> 00:34:06,320
Speaker 1: right about it a mid term, and so they've got

636
00:34:06,320 --> 00:34:08,279
Speaker 1: to be very worried in the White House and making

637
00:34:08,280 --> 00:34:11,160
Speaker 1: sure they control that um and at least do what

638
00:34:11,239 --> 00:34:16,240
Speaker 1: they can to keep things moving along. The timing comes

639
00:34:16,320 --> 00:34:19,680
Speaker 1: down to everything here, Genie. With the mid terms, just

640
00:34:19,760 --> 00:34:22,920
Speaker 1: imagine how that could potentially collide. And surely it's something

641
00:34:23,239 --> 00:34:27,200
Speaker 1: that this president and this Federal Reserve are considering. Not

642
00:34:27,320 --> 00:34:29,520
Speaker 1: that the Fed is looking at elections and markets, as

643
00:34:29,520 --> 00:34:34,080
Speaker 1: they say, but you've got policymakers here, Biden administration, economic

644
00:34:34,160 --> 00:34:37,400
Speaker 1: policymakers driving some of these decisions. That's right, and I

645
00:34:37,440 --> 00:34:39,720
Speaker 1: always think about the students that I talked to daily.

646
00:34:39,760 --> 00:34:42,160
Speaker 1: You know, I'm old enough to remember inflation when it

647
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Speaker 1: was bad there. It is a generational issue, though they

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Speaker 1: do not. They have no sense of what you and

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Speaker 1: Boid are talking about. You go into the store and

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Speaker 1: milk is so high, and all these things that has

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Speaker 1: a real political impact. To your point, a generation of

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Speaker 1: people who grew up with zero percent interest rates and

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Speaker 1: they think that houses always sell for a hundred thousand

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Speaker 1: dollars more than they're listed. It's great to have both

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Speaker 1: of you with us. What a great conversation with Genie

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Speaker 1: and with Boyd here on Bloomberg Sound on our political

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Speaker 1: panel today, Genie she Inzano and Boyd Matheson. I'm Joe Matthew.

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Speaker 1: A great talk. Will meet you back here tomorrow on

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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Sound On. I'm Joe Matthew and this is Bloomberg.