1 00:00:01,200 --> 00:00:04,360 Speaker 1: Before we get into today's episode, I have some very 2 00:00:04,440 --> 00:00:06,920 Speaker 1: exciting news to share with you all. You know that 3 00:00:06,960 --> 00:00:09,559 Speaker 1: on this podcast, we're all about celebrating the women who 4 00:00:09,680 --> 00:00:12,880 Speaker 1: dare to reimagine their lives, step into the unknown, and 5 00:00:13,000 --> 00:00:16,760 Speaker 1: just keep moving forward with courage. So it's fitting that today, 6 00:00:17,000 --> 00:00:21,840 Speaker 1: October fourteenth, is the launch day of Reese Witherspoon's debut 7 00:00:21,920 --> 00:00:26,160 Speaker 1: suspense novel, Gone Before Goodbye, co written with the Master 8 00:00:26,400 --> 00:00:30,400 Speaker 1: of Twist's himself, Harlan Coben. At the center of this 9 00:00:30,480 --> 00:00:34,360 Speaker 1: page journer is Maggie McCabe, an indomitable woman who search 10 00:00:34,400 --> 00:00:37,199 Speaker 1: for truth takes her deep inside a world of global 11 00:00:37,280 --> 00:00:41,200 Speaker 1: power and dark secrets, a journey that tests her resilience, 12 00:00:41,400 --> 00:00:44,159 Speaker 1: her courage, and her will to fight for what matters. 13 00:00:44,960 --> 00:00:48,000 Speaker 1: This is Reese's original idea, y'all. This is a huge 14 00:00:48,040 --> 00:00:50,279 Speaker 1: deal and it was brought to life in partnership with 15 00:00:50,280 --> 00:00:53,519 Speaker 1: one of the world's most acclaimed storytellers. And just like 16 00:00:53,560 --> 00:00:56,680 Speaker 1: The Bright Side, Gone Before Goodbye is about hope, grit, 17 00:00:56,760 --> 00:00:58,960 Speaker 1: and the strength to keep going even when the odds 18 00:00:59,000 --> 00:01:02,520 Speaker 1: are stacked against you. The novel its shelves today, and 19 00:01:02,600 --> 00:01:05,160 Speaker 1: Reese and Harlan are already kicking off their book tour, 20 00:01:05,240 --> 00:01:07,240 Speaker 1: So get your tickets at a city near you and 21 00:01:07,319 --> 00:01:09,680 Speaker 1: make sure you get your hands on the thriller of 22 00:01:09,800 --> 00:01:14,560 Speaker 1: the season. So let's talk about what's coming up today 23 00:01:14,680 --> 00:01:16,840 Speaker 1: on the bright side. But first I'm going to start 24 00:01:16,840 --> 00:01:20,399 Speaker 1: with a question. What do Oprah Winfrey, Katie Kuric, and 25 00:01:20,520 --> 00:01:25,839 Speaker 1: Lisa Kudro have in common? They've all been fired. Getting 26 00:01:25,880 --> 00:01:29,160 Speaker 1: fired is so common that it is a shared experience, 27 00:01:29,240 --> 00:01:33,000 Speaker 1: even among the most successful echelon of people get this. 28 00:01:33,200 --> 00:01:36,000 Speaker 1: In one month alone this past summer, one point eight 29 00:01:36,200 --> 00:01:39,600 Speaker 1: million people lost their jobs. And yet when it happens 30 00:01:39,600 --> 00:01:42,679 Speaker 1: to us, it feels so personal, like no one in 31 00:01:42,720 --> 00:01:45,920 Speaker 1: the world has ever experienced this. And there's a lot 32 00:01:45,920 --> 00:01:49,080 Speaker 1: of shame that can come with it too. There's the 33 00:01:49,120 --> 00:01:52,400 Speaker 1: worry and confusion that comes after it. How do I 34 00:01:52,400 --> 00:01:55,120 Speaker 1: get myself back out there? How do I update my resume? 35 00:01:55,600 --> 00:01:57,520 Speaker 1: I mean, depending on how long you've been out of 36 00:01:57,520 --> 00:01:59,600 Speaker 1: the job market, the way you actually get a job 37 00:01:59,640 --> 00:02:02,760 Speaker 1: in your industry could have changed. And I mean don't 38 00:02:02,760 --> 00:02:05,800 Speaker 1: even get me started on medical benefits and health insurance, 39 00:02:05,800 --> 00:02:09,200 Speaker 1: because that's a whole other issue. It is a messy 40 00:02:09,360 --> 00:02:11,480 Speaker 1: time to be adulting. Yell you don't need me to 41 00:02:11,480 --> 00:02:15,320 Speaker 1: tell you that. If only there was a guide something 42 00:02:15,560 --> 00:02:18,320 Speaker 1: or someone who's been there before who can hold our 43 00:02:18,360 --> 00:02:20,560 Speaker 1: hands after we get fired, so that we can turn 44 00:02:20,680 --> 00:02:25,200 Speaker 1: these professional plateaus into our own Oprah like opportunities. 45 00:02:25,760 --> 00:02:28,200 Speaker 2: What we're really urging women to do is number one, 46 00:02:28,240 --> 00:02:30,360 Speaker 2: remember your own value, and you brought the value to 47 00:02:30,360 --> 00:02:33,000 Speaker 2: the job, not the other way around. And to look around. 48 00:02:33,160 --> 00:02:35,920 Speaker 2: There's millions of people in the same position as you, 49 00:02:36,200 --> 00:02:38,280 Speaker 2: and there's a community there if you want to find it. 50 00:02:38,639 --> 00:02:41,000 Speaker 2: Take a minute to think about what made you more 51 00:02:41,000 --> 00:02:43,360 Speaker 2: happy and less happy over the course of your career. 52 00:02:43,560 --> 00:02:46,360 Speaker 2: What can you do to increase the happiness and decrease 53 00:02:46,400 --> 00:02:49,920 Speaker 2: the unhappiness. So from like an Oprah situation where it 54 00:02:50,120 --> 00:02:53,080 Speaker 2: was personal and there was all of these overtones to 55 00:02:53,160 --> 00:02:57,359 Speaker 2: that place, so unhealthy racism, middle aged boys club stuff, 56 00:02:57,400 --> 00:02:59,240 Speaker 2: all that stuff she had to deal with, and the 57 00:02:59,240 --> 00:03:01,720 Speaker 2: beautiful twist fight with Oprah is a year later, the 58 00:03:01,720 --> 00:03:03,920 Speaker 2: new manager comes up to her and says, start a 59 00:03:03,960 --> 00:03:06,520 Speaker 2: talk show, what do you reckon? And the rest is history. 60 00:03:07,040 --> 00:03:09,440 Speaker 1: I'm Simone Boyce and this is the bright side from 61 00:03:09,480 --> 00:03:13,840 Speaker 1: Hello Sunshine. Today we're sharing the help you might need. 62 00:03:14,040 --> 00:03:18,160 Speaker 1: Maybe not today, but someday. Christina O'Neill and Laura Brown 63 00:03:18,240 --> 00:03:21,360 Speaker 1: are here to share their own experiences of getting very 64 00:03:21,400 --> 00:03:24,240 Speaker 1: publicly fired, and they're going to tell us how they 65 00:03:24,280 --> 00:03:29,160 Speaker 1: built those moments into a community of revolution even and 66 00:03:29,280 --> 00:03:31,600 Speaker 1: there's a book too. So if you're ready to take 67 00:03:31,639 --> 00:03:34,960 Speaker 1: control of the narrative of being fired, to be jolted 68 00:03:35,080 --> 00:03:38,400 Speaker 1: out of your comfort zone and to see the prosperity 69 00:03:38,560 --> 00:03:41,560 Speaker 1: that is down the road, this is the conversation for you. 70 00:03:42,360 --> 00:03:45,280 Speaker 1: Let's get into it with Christina O'Neill and Laura Brown. 71 00:03:47,000 --> 00:03:50,040 Speaker 1: Laura Brown, Christina O'Neil, Welcome to the bright Side. 72 00:03:50,280 --> 00:03:51,600 Speaker 2: Thank you so much. 73 00:03:51,800 --> 00:03:53,320 Speaker 3: Thanks for having us well. 74 00:03:53,400 --> 00:03:55,480 Speaker 1: I can't wait to talk to you about your book, 75 00:03:55,720 --> 00:03:59,240 Speaker 1: All the Cool Girls Get Fired. You are both fashion 76 00:03:59,360 --> 00:04:02,600 Speaker 1: media loyalty at this point in your careers. But let's 77 00:04:02,600 --> 00:04:04,600 Speaker 1: go back in time because you were both growing up 78 00:04:04,640 --> 00:04:07,880 Speaker 1: on different sides of the world. Laura you were in Australia, 79 00:04:08,000 --> 00:04:11,400 Speaker 1: Christina you were in Virginia, And I'm so curious, what 80 00:04:11,520 --> 00:04:14,680 Speaker 1: was the movie, TV show or magazine that you came 81 00:04:14,720 --> 00:04:17,919 Speaker 1: across that made each of you want to work in media. 82 00:04:18,880 --> 00:04:21,280 Speaker 2: Christina, do you want to take that as the local? Yeah? 83 00:04:21,320 --> 00:04:24,800 Speaker 3: I started with seventeen and Mademoiselle, So that was like 84 00:04:24,839 --> 00:04:28,400 Speaker 3: probably my preteen years. But I think both Laura and 85 00:04:28,400 --> 00:04:31,760 Speaker 3: I share the sort of dazzling lights as a Vogue 86 00:04:31,920 --> 00:04:34,960 Speaker 3: as our kind of magazine that really got us hooked 87 00:04:35,000 --> 00:04:35,800 Speaker 3: on this business. 88 00:04:36,120 --> 00:04:38,480 Speaker 2: It came to Australia like it was beamed down from 89 00:04:38,560 --> 00:04:43,320 Speaker 2: another universe, like here's the mothership where all the fashion, entertainment, 90 00:04:43,440 --> 00:04:46,200 Speaker 2: all this stuff lives, and you're getting a dispatch from it. 91 00:04:46,320 --> 00:04:50,400 Speaker 2: You know, everything was extra shiny and extra glamorous. It 92 00:04:50,440 --> 00:04:54,680 Speaker 2: feels at the time foreign and mysterious and unattainable to you. 93 00:04:55,480 --> 00:04:57,560 Speaker 2: It was like my os you know, even though I 94 00:04:57,640 --> 00:04:59,040 Speaker 2: was in oz. 95 00:04:59,279 --> 00:05:01,839 Speaker 1: So it sounds like it made you feel connected to 96 00:05:02,040 --> 00:05:04,680 Speaker 1: something bigger. Oh yeah, yeah. 97 00:05:04,720 --> 00:05:06,720 Speaker 3: There was like a whole world out there that we 98 00:05:06,800 --> 00:05:09,000 Speaker 3: needed to, you know, conquer and explore. 99 00:05:09,200 --> 00:05:11,279 Speaker 2: And we didn't even know how. I remember like sticking 100 00:05:11,279 --> 00:05:13,760 Speaker 2: your nose in there and just being wide eyed when 101 00:05:13,760 --> 00:05:15,479 Speaker 2: you were in the middle of reading it. So we 102 00:05:15,520 --> 00:05:18,120 Speaker 2: didn't know how and when, but we knew we loved it, 103 00:05:18,200 --> 00:05:21,880 Speaker 2: and we knew that just that love and excitement would 104 00:05:21,920 --> 00:05:24,240 Speaker 2: propel us. But when we were teenagers, we had no idea. 105 00:05:24,320 --> 00:05:26,760 Speaker 1: Well, also, magazines Back then, it was such a tactile, 106 00:05:26,839 --> 00:05:32,040 Speaker 1: immersive experience. You could literally smell the fragrance that whoever 107 00:05:32,120 --> 00:05:34,920 Speaker 1: the company was that was selling it. You know, Oh 108 00:05:34,960 --> 00:05:39,320 Speaker 1: my god, sense strips, I forgot about those. Remember the 109 00:05:39,360 --> 00:05:44,320 Speaker 1: sticky pages you know you'd yeah thumb through and stumble 110 00:05:44,360 --> 00:05:45,479 Speaker 1: across different treasures. 111 00:05:45,560 --> 00:05:48,080 Speaker 3: Yeah, there would be like competitive sense strips, and that 112 00:05:48,279 --> 00:05:49,920 Speaker 3: none of them complimented each other. 113 00:05:50,240 --> 00:05:52,680 Speaker 2: That's an old Have I even opened a magazine with 114 00:05:52,720 --> 00:05:55,839 Speaker 2: a sense strip like that doesn't even exist anymore? What 115 00:05:55,960 --> 00:06:00,440 Speaker 2: an era? Oh the sweet smell of excess, success. 116 00:06:01,400 --> 00:06:07,080 Speaker 1: Access, excess and success, Christina. Before you became the editor 117 00:06:07,200 --> 00:06:11,120 Speaker 1: of WSJ magazine, you worked for Cannice Bushnell, who is 118 00:06:11,200 --> 00:06:14,719 Speaker 1: the real life columnist that Sex and the Cities Carrie 119 00:06:14,720 --> 00:06:18,320 Speaker 1: Bradshaw is based on. How did you land that job 120 00:06:18,400 --> 00:06:20,560 Speaker 1: while you were a student at NYU. 121 00:06:20,880 --> 00:06:24,120 Speaker 3: Well, it took a lot of gumption. I called Candas 122 00:06:24,200 --> 00:06:26,440 Speaker 3: up from a payphone back in the day when you 123 00:06:26,480 --> 00:06:29,800 Speaker 3: could call four one one and get someone's phone number, 124 00:06:30,040 --> 00:06:32,159 Speaker 3: which is kind of wild to think about, but I 125 00:06:32,240 --> 00:06:33,919 Speaker 3: called her from a payphone and said I was a 126 00:06:33,960 --> 00:06:37,040 Speaker 3: student at NYU. She had gone to NYU, which I knew, 127 00:06:37,360 --> 00:06:41,599 Speaker 3: so I thought our mutual alma mater would potentially be 128 00:06:41,720 --> 00:06:44,040 Speaker 3: the hook, and I asked if I could interview her 129 00:06:44,040 --> 00:06:47,800 Speaker 3: for a paper. So after that, she clearly liked what 130 00:06:47,839 --> 00:06:51,200 Speaker 3: I had written, and the assignment went well, and she 131 00:06:51,680 --> 00:06:53,840 Speaker 3: was in the market for an assistant. A couple of 132 00:06:53,880 --> 00:06:57,000 Speaker 3: days a week, she was still writing the column for 133 00:06:57,040 --> 00:07:00,560 Speaker 3: The New York Observer, which was a super popular column 134 00:07:00,600 --> 00:07:03,800 Speaker 3: that was then bought by a book publisher by Grove. 135 00:07:04,720 --> 00:07:09,920 Speaker 3: Her editor there compiled her year's worth of columns, which 136 00:07:09,960 --> 00:07:12,720 Speaker 3: were basically Carrie's diaries, right like every week there was 137 00:07:12,760 --> 00:07:15,880 Speaker 3: a new adventure that would publish in this weekly newspaper 138 00:07:15,880 --> 00:07:18,080 Speaker 3: that was very popular in the nineties in New York. 139 00:07:18,440 --> 00:07:22,920 Speaker 3: And then from that book, Darren Starr bought the project 140 00:07:23,480 --> 00:07:26,440 Speaker 3: and developed it for HBO. So I was with Candace. 141 00:07:26,680 --> 00:07:28,920 Speaker 3: I'll never forget her turning to me and saying, but 142 00:07:28,960 --> 00:07:31,080 Speaker 3: what do you really think about Sarah Jessica Parker? 143 00:07:32,520 --> 00:07:33,960 Speaker 1: What did you say to her? What did you think 144 00:07:34,000 --> 00:07:35,280 Speaker 1: about Sarah Jessica Parker. 145 00:07:35,520 --> 00:07:38,120 Speaker 3: I had grown up on square pegs, so of course 146 00:07:38,160 --> 00:07:40,880 Speaker 3: I was a huge Sarah Jessica Parker fan, and I 147 00:07:40,960 --> 00:07:43,480 Speaker 3: thought she would be perfect for the role. I think 148 00:07:43,480 --> 00:07:46,960 Speaker 3: the casting even However, many years later they got it 149 00:07:47,080 --> 00:07:49,480 Speaker 3: right out of the gate. So it was a really 150 00:07:49,520 --> 00:07:52,960 Speaker 3: exciting time because that first season, Candace was quite involved 151 00:07:53,000 --> 00:07:55,360 Speaker 3: and occasionally we would go to set and I was 152 00:07:55,400 --> 00:07:58,440 Speaker 3: actually an extra in one of the episodes, which one 153 00:07:58,520 --> 00:08:00,880 Speaker 3: I don't know this. It was filmed at Webster Hall. 154 00:08:00,960 --> 00:08:02,920 Speaker 3: It was the fashion show when. 155 00:08:02,760 --> 00:08:05,440 Speaker 2: Carrie no Way, when she falls down. 156 00:08:05,400 --> 00:08:09,240 Speaker 3: Yeah, and Willie Garth goes backstage and there I am. 157 00:08:09,840 --> 00:08:12,400 Speaker 3: I played a dresser. You see me for maybe one 158 00:08:12,440 --> 00:08:13,720 Speaker 3: point three seconds. 159 00:08:13,880 --> 00:08:16,120 Speaker 1: No way, Wait, this is so cool. I'm going to 160 00:08:16,200 --> 00:08:18,080 Speaker 1: now go back and watch it and being like I 161 00:08:18,160 --> 00:08:19,440 Speaker 1: know her, I know her. 162 00:08:20,200 --> 00:08:22,960 Speaker 3: Yes, I did not get my sad card from that episode. 163 00:08:23,000 --> 00:08:25,600 Speaker 3: Don't worry. I am not a threat to the entertainment industry. 164 00:08:26,440 --> 00:08:30,400 Speaker 1: Well, Christina, I bet seeing that transition from a column 165 00:08:30,440 --> 00:08:33,359 Speaker 1: at the New York Observer to now this television phenomenon 166 00:08:33,559 --> 00:08:37,079 Speaker 1: really shaped your view of what was possible in this industry. 167 00:08:37,360 --> 00:08:41,160 Speaker 1: And Laura, you spent eleven years at Harper's Bazaar. You 168 00:08:41,200 --> 00:08:44,440 Speaker 1: became editor in chief of in Style. So we heard 169 00:08:44,440 --> 00:08:47,600 Speaker 1: about how Christina called Candice Bushnell from a payphone. I 170 00:08:47,600 --> 00:08:50,040 Speaker 1: want to know, what's the wildest thing you've ever done 171 00:08:50,040 --> 00:08:50,559 Speaker 1: for a job. 172 00:08:51,000 --> 00:08:53,400 Speaker 2: I think the probably the wildest thing I've done for 173 00:08:53,440 --> 00:08:55,520 Speaker 2: a job is getting on a plane, a one way 174 00:08:55,520 --> 00:08:58,319 Speaker 2: ticket from Sydney to New York and arriving on September 175 00:08:58,360 --> 00:09:00,880 Speaker 2: the fourth, two thousand and one, with what I refer 176 00:09:00,960 --> 00:09:03,840 Speaker 2: to as one and a half friends. I had one friend, Libby, 177 00:09:03,880 --> 00:09:05,480 Speaker 2: who was a fashion editor of the New York Post 178 00:09:05,480 --> 00:09:07,160 Speaker 2: at the time. I'd met her when she'd come down 179 00:09:07,160 --> 00:09:09,640 Speaker 2: to Sydney for something. And my half friend, who has 180 00:09:09,640 --> 00:09:11,080 Speaker 2: know my real friend Madis, didn't know him very well, 181 00:09:11,120 --> 00:09:13,160 Speaker 2: was a guy called Meha Rashan who was at New 182 00:09:13,240 --> 00:09:14,960 Speaker 2: York Magazine at the time. So I was on this 183 00:09:15,000 --> 00:09:17,400 Speaker 2: sort of foreign journalist visa, so I was allowed to 184 00:09:17,400 --> 00:09:19,440 Speaker 2: be in the country if I wrote for you know, 185 00:09:19,760 --> 00:09:22,760 Speaker 2: people outside. And I just showed up and I'd packed 186 00:09:22,800 --> 00:09:25,679 Speaker 2: two suitcases and all these high heels, and I landed 187 00:09:25,760 --> 00:09:29,120 Speaker 2: right before Fashion Week, and when this fateful evening of 188 00:09:29,160 --> 00:09:31,920 Speaker 2: September tenth, two thousand and one, we obviously all know 189 00:09:31,960 --> 00:09:33,600 Speaker 2: what happened the next day, but that wasn't I met 190 00:09:33,679 --> 00:09:36,880 Speaker 2: Christina and we were at the Mark Jacob's fashion show, 191 00:09:36,880 --> 00:09:39,080 Speaker 2: which I must have crashed or Libby must have put 192 00:09:39,120 --> 00:09:41,320 Speaker 2: me in under a coat. I don't know, but speaking 193 00:09:41,320 --> 00:09:43,480 Speaker 2: of Sarah Jessica Parker, she's a theme here because we 194 00:09:43,520 --> 00:09:46,440 Speaker 2: walked into this show and I was dazzled. I was like, 195 00:09:46,720 --> 00:09:49,680 Speaker 2: everyone was famous. Oh god, I'm going to explode. I'm 196 00:09:49,679 --> 00:09:52,560 Speaker 2: tottering around and asked sjp's in the corner, and it 197 00:09:52,640 --> 00:09:55,040 Speaker 2: was just this crazy party. And I think that for 198 00:09:55,120 --> 00:09:58,360 Speaker 2: both of us, we were suddenly kind of quote unquote 199 00:09:58,360 --> 00:10:00,800 Speaker 2: and sometimes literally in the room, you know, in the 200 00:10:00,920 --> 00:10:04,400 Speaker 2: room that we'd mythologized for so long, you know, So 201 00:10:04,520 --> 00:10:05,880 Speaker 2: I think that that really. 202 00:10:05,600 --> 00:10:08,160 Speaker 3: Had been on the sixth row at the fashion show. 203 00:10:08,200 --> 00:10:08,920 Speaker 3: But we were there. 204 00:10:09,040 --> 00:10:10,880 Speaker 2: We were there. I didn't see a model with a 205 00:10:10,960 --> 00:10:13,680 Speaker 2: pair of legs for years because the seats were so bad, 206 00:10:13,800 --> 00:10:19,840 Speaker 2: you know what I mean. It was like just toursos going. Yeah, 207 00:10:19,880 --> 00:10:21,280 Speaker 2: but we were so happy to be there. 208 00:10:21,320 --> 00:10:25,280 Speaker 1: And Christina, did you experience any of those cliches about 209 00:10:25,320 --> 00:10:28,440 Speaker 1: the fashion media industry that we've seen in Devil War's product, 210 00:10:28,520 --> 00:10:32,120 Speaker 1: like those early days when that kind of toxic behavior 211 00:10:32,200 --> 00:10:35,000 Speaker 1: was really normalized. Did you experience any of that? 212 00:10:35,240 --> 00:10:38,000 Speaker 3: I certainly did my fair share of dry cleaning runs 213 00:10:38,000 --> 00:10:41,199 Speaker 3: for Canvas, but I always had sort of a purpose 214 00:10:41,320 --> 00:10:44,000 Speaker 3: once I was within the walls of a media organization. 215 00:10:44,160 --> 00:10:47,160 Speaker 3: I was never an assistant in the media business, so 216 00:10:47,400 --> 00:10:49,599 Speaker 3: by the time I had started, I was always a 217 00:10:49,720 --> 00:10:52,840 Speaker 3: junior editor, so I had a purpose. I had my 218 00:10:52,960 --> 00:10:55,960 Speaker 3: own column when I was at New York Magazine. Even 219 00:10:55,960 --> 00:10:58,920 Speaker 3: when I started at Harper's Bizarre, I was like the 220 00:10:59,040 --> 00:11:01,760 Speaker 3: seventh man on the bed and in the fashion features department. 221 00:11:01,960 --> 00:11:04,160 Speaker 3: But I was never an assistant. Where a lot of 222 00:11:04,200 --> 00:11:07,480 Speaker 3: that sort of like toxic behavior manifested was when people 223 00:11:07,480 --> 00:11:09,760 Speaker 3: were in kind of like high stress, high kind of 224 00:11:09,800 --> 00:11:12,240 Speaker 3: pressure situations and the only person they could turn to 225 00:11:12,240 --> 00:11:15,319 Speaker 3: to take out the pressure on was like the junior assistant. 226 00:11:15,440 --> 00:11:18,560 Speaker 3: But I sort of blissfully circumnavigated all of that, I 227 00:11:18,559 --> 00:11:21,720 Speaker 3: think because I put my head down and did the work, 228 00:11:21,760 --> 00:11:24,000 Speaker 3: and I think that's one of the things that is 229 00:11:24,080 --> 00:11:26,640 Speaker 3: still paying off. I think Laura and I still sort 230 00:11:26,640 --> 00:11:28,360 Speaker 3: of think of ourselves as the ones in the room 231 00:11:28,400 --> 00:11:31,400 Speaker 3: who are just like doing it, as opposed to like 232 00:11:31,480 --> 00:11:33,760 Speaker 3: pointing and trying to get other people to do it. 233 00:11:33,840 --> 00:11:35,880 Speaker 2: For us, it feels better to do it yourself. 234 00:11:36,440 --> 00:11:36,600 Speaker 3: Well. 235 00:11:36,640 --> 00:11:39,000 Speaker 1: The reason why I'm dwelling on this chapter of your 236 00:11:39,000 --> 00:11:42,040 Speaker 1: careers is because I think It's important to set the 237 00:11:42,120 --> 00:11:44,640 Speaker 1: stage here because what you're doing with your book, All 238 00:11:44,679 --> 00:11:46,760 Speaker 1: the Cool Girls Get Fired, is you're taking on a 239 00:11:46,760 --> 00:11:52,280 Speaker 1: pretty daring challenge. You're rebranding and normalizing being fired, which 240 00:11:52,320 --> 00:11:55,080 Speaker 1: is such a universal experience that we don't really talk about. 241 00:11:55,600 --> 00:11:58,360 Speaker 1: You've even gone as far as to create this club 242 00:11:58,600 --> 00:12:02,040 Speaker 1: of cool girls who've all this experience. How did you 243 00:12:02,160 --> 00:12:04,120 Speaker 1: land on the title of your book. 244 00:12:04,360 --> 00:12:08,120 Speaker 2: I tend to come up with the big, blasty things generally, 245 00:12:08,160 --> 00:12:09,960 Speaker 2: and they just tend to occur to me. But I 246 00:12:09,960 --> 00:12:12,320 Speaker 2: think the earlier years of fashion and all the conditioning 247 00:12:12,440 --> 00:12:14,720 Speaker 2: that it would ask its reader to participate in, like, Oh, 248 00:12:14,760 --> 00:12:16,120 Speaker 2: you've got to have this, You've got to buy that, 249 00:12:16,160 --> 00:12:18,160 Speaker 2: You've got to have this body, this jacket, this did 250 00:12:18,160 --> 00:12:21,680 Speaker 2: it da da. So much of the narrative of magazines 251 00:12:21,880 --> 00:12:25,040 Speaker 2: was all the cool girls have these things. Oh, all 252 00:12:25,080 --> 00:12:27,960 Speaker 2: the cool girls wear this geene, all the cool girls 253 00:12:28,080 --> 00:12:31,160 Speaker 2: buy this shoe. So it was just a well worn trope. 254 00:12:31,400 --> 00:12:33,240 Speaker 2: So I just my brain instantly just went, all the 255 00:12:33,240 --> 00:12:37,360 Speaker 2: cool girls get fired. Oh oh, because it takes that 256 00:12:37,520 --> 00:12:41,080 Speaker 2: whole trope, it instantly subverts it. But also what it 257 00:12:41,120 --> 00:12:43,560 Speaker 2: does is takes the original essence of that and gives 258 00:12:43,640 --> 00:12:47,520 Speaker 2: you ownership and makes you cool because you admitted that 259 00:12:47,600 --> 00:12:49,760 Speaker 2: this happened to you. And in this day and age, 260 00:12:49,760 --> 00:12:51,960 Speaker 2: I'm show we'll get into it. It's ninety eight percent 261 00:12:52,000 --> 00:12:55,360 Speaker 2: of the time not personal, So like, admit it, get 262 00:12:55,360 --> 00:12:56,960 Speaker 2: on with it, move on with your life, because so 263 00:12:57,040 --> 00:12:58,360 Speaker 2: much more is going to open up to you. So 264 00:12:58,400 --> 00:13:00,680 Speaker 2: the first way to do it is by that title, 265 00:13:00,720 --> 00:13:04,120 Speaker 2: which was originally dreampt up for an Instagram post that 266 00:13:04,200 --> 00:13:08,000 Speaker 2: I had decided because Christina was fired. You know, you're 267 00:13:08,040 --> 00:13:10,280 Speaker 2: in a bit after me. And when we first met up, 268 00:13:10,280 --> 00:13:12,760 Speaker 2: I was like, here's what we're gonna do. We're gonna 269 00:13:13,120 --> 00:13:15,240 Speaker 2: take a picture of ourselves. We're going to look super 270 00:13:15,280 --> 00:13:17,840 Speaker 2: cute and we're captioning and all the cool girls get fired. 271 00:13:17,920 --> 00:13:21,240 Speaker 2: And she was like okay, because we were like, yeah, 272 00:13:21,280 --> 00:13:23,160 Speaker 2: we did. We're really good at our jobs and we 273 00:13:23,240 --> 00:13:25,000 Speaker 2: got fired and that's all right. 274 00:13:25,800 --> 00:13:27,440 Speaker 1: We've got to take a short break. But if you 275 00:13:27,600 --> 00:13:30,920 Speaker 1: are loving this conversation with Laura Brown and Christina O'Neill, 276 00:13:31,120 --> 00:13:33,520 Speaker 1: please subscribe to the bright Side, leave us a review, 277 00:13:33,600 --> 00:13:35,560 Speaker 1: and share this episode with a friend who needs to 278 00:13:35,600 --> 00:13:42,000 Speaker 1: hear it. And we're back. What do you remember about 279 00:13:42,360 --> 00:13:45,000 Speaker 1: the moment that you've found out that you were fired. 280 00:13:45,160 --> 00:13:46,280 Speaker 1: Did you feel blindsided? 281 00:13:46,880 --> 00:13:50,160 Speaker 2: I got twenty minutes notice, and my immediate boss will 282 00:13:50,160 --> 00:13:52,960 Speaker 2: coment like hi, Liz, and then there's like hi, and 283 00:13:53,000 --> 00:13:55,920 Speaker 2: she's clearly you know she's on with an HR professional 284 00:13:56,240 --> 00:13:58,720 Speaker 2: and it's all the language. You know, they're always reading 285 00:13:58,720 --> 00:14:01,000 Speaker 2: from a piece of paper, and I know, I think 286 00:14:01,000 --> 00:14:02,400 Speaker 2: I got a phone from a man and I was with, like, 287 00:14:02,440 --> 00:14:04,560 Speaker 2: I let my husband here and now a gallant works 288 00:14:04,600 --> 00:14:06,520 Speaker 2: with us sometimes, and I was like, I've just been 289 00:14:06,679 --> 00:14:08,800 Speaker 2: we've just been fired, but we had to get back 290 00:14:08,840 --> 00:14:12,480 Speaker 2: on another call like right away. So I think shot 291 00:14:12,640 --> 00:14:15,920 Speaker 2: guides a lot of things, and I actually think that 292 00:14:16,360 --> 00:14:19,480 Speaker 2: sometimes in the first instance, Shot can be a real 293 00:14:19,520 --> 00:14:22,120 Speaker 2: protector in a way. Like I think it was like, 294 00:14:22,160 --> 00:14:23,400 Speaker 2: oh no, we got fight. Okay, I got fight, but 295 00:14:23,440 --> 00:14:25,320 Speaker 2: I'm good at what I did. I certainly didn't have 296 00:14:25,360 --> 00:14:29,160 Speaker 2: a movie scene of wailing on a bed or anything, 297 00:14:29,240 --> 00:14:33,360 Speaker 2: because you're also sort of del used by correspondence and 298 00:14:33,400 --> 00:14:35,840 Speaker 2: this is strangely, Oh my god, I'm not trying to punt. 299 00:14:35,920 --> 00:14:39,720 Speaker 2: The bright side of this thing is that you're there. 300 00:14:39,720 --> 00:14:41,280 Speaker 2: I remember, like I had sneakers on because I was 301 00:14:41,280 --> 00:14:43,800 Speaker 2: supposed to go to an appointment, and I just went 302 00:14:43,840 --> 00:14:45,280 Speaker 2: and sat on the edge of my bed like one 303 00:14:45,360 --> 00:14:48,360 Speaker 2: leg off, like really ungainedly, and I had my phone 304 00:14:48,400 --> 00:14:51,600 Speaker 2: and my computer. She's like bing bing bing bing bing bing. 305 00:14:51,840 --> 00:14:54,280 Speaker 2: But it's like you have all these people being in 306 00:14:54,320 --> 00:14:57,360 Speaker 2: touch telling you're fantastic, and so I was like, are 307 00:14:57,360 --> 00:14:59,640 Speaker 2: you allergy? But you're not dead, So you're just getting 308 00:14:59,680 --> 00:15:02,400 Speaker 2: like and another friend will get in touch, another friend 309 00:15:02,400 --> 00:15:05,200 Speaker 2: will get in touch, and suddenly this network sort of 310 00:15:05,240 --> 00:15:05,760 Speaker 2: shows up. 311 00:15:05,960 --> 00:15:08,640 Speaker 1: Yeah, Christina, I want to know if you were blindsided 312 00:15:08,680 --> 00:15:11,920 Speaker 1: by your firing. Both of you dealt with pretty public firings. 313 00:15:11,960 --> 00:15:14,000 Speaker 1: I want to know what that experience was, like. 314 00:15:13,960 --> 00:15:19,040 Speaker 3: Oh yeah, like press release, press releases went out. I 315 00:15:19,320 --> 00:15:25,200 Speaker 3: was blindsided in the sense that I had sort of 316 00:15:25,280 --> 00:15:27,520 Speaker 3: told myself we had a regime change at the Wall 317 00:15:27,560 --> 00:15:29,560 Speaker 3: Street Journal. There was a new editor in chief who 318 00:15:29,560 --> 00:15:34,800 Speaker 3: had started in February, and I figured we were successful. 319 00:15:34,800 --> 00:15:36,600 Speaker 3: We were over here in our corner. We were sort 320 00:15:36,640 --> 00:15:38,840 Speaker 3: of doing what we were doing. We were making money, 321 00:15:39,040 --> 00:15:41,440 Speaker 3: you know. The magazine had continued to be like well 322 00:15:41,480 --> 00:15:45,720 Speaker 3: received and well regarded. So I had sort of told myself, 323 00:15:45,920 --> 00:15:48,200 Speaker 3: I'm the least of her worries. That's why she's not 324 00:15:48,280 --> 00:15:51,880 Speaker 3: meeting with me, So you know, February goes by, March 325 00:15:52,000 --> 00:15:54,000 Speaker 3: goes by. We're now at the end of April and 326 00:15:54,040 --> 00:15:56,520 Speaker 3: we have our first meeting. It was set to be 327 00:15:56,840 --> 00:15:59,800 Speaker 3: in her office. My team and I had done power 328 00:16:00,520 --> 00:16:02,480 Speaker 3: and decks, and you know, I was ready to go 329 00:16:02,520 --> 00:16:04,360 Speaker 3: in and kind of knock her socks off and talk 330 00:16:04,400 --> 00:16:07,960 Speaker 3: about the future. In about ten minutes before our meeting, 331 00:16:08,520 --> 00:16:12,560 Speaker 3: she changed the meeting location from her office to the 332 00:16:12,800 --> 00:16:17,960 Speaker 3: HR floor. So I knew instantly that something was up. 333 00:16:18,640 --> 00:16:21,680 Speaker 3: And I was actually standing around with a couple of 334 00:16:21,720 --> 00:16:24,960 Speaker 3: my colleagues at the time and I said, be right back, 335 00:16:25,240 --> 00:16:28,520 Speaker 3: I'm going to go get fired. And I was, in 336 00:16:28,560 --> 00:16:29,440 Speaker 3: fact correct. 337 00:16:30,200 --> 00:16:34,800 Speaker 1: What was your biggest insecurity immediately after you're firing? 338 00:16:35,640 --> 00:16:38,400 Speaker 2: Healthcare? Look, you could do a whole podcast of me 339 00:16:38,640 --> 00:16:41,880 Speaker 2: railing about the healthcare system in this country. And again, 340 00:16:42,200 --> 00:16:44,600 Speaker 2: we didn't have Goldman salaries, but we had good salaries. 341 00:16:45,000 --> 00:16:46,920 Speaker 2: I'm the breadwinner in my household, I pay for mine 342 00:16:46,920 --> 00:16:48,640 Speaker 2: in my husband's health care, I pay for my mum's 343 00:16:48,680 --> 00:16:51,760 Speaker 2: care in Australia. So you're just suddenly looking at if 344 00:16:51,800 --> 00:16:54,840 Speaker 2: you end up working for yourself, you're looking at two 345 00:16:54,880 --> 00:16:57,880 Speaker 2: thousand dollars a month to basically get like, I don't know, 346 00:16:58,240 --> 00:17:01,240 Speaker 2: a discount on some xanax, like if you go to 347 00:17:01,240 --> 00:17:02,720 Speaker 2: the hospital if you get a hit by a truck. 348 00:17:02,760 --> 00:17:04,399 Speaker 2: You know, that's what it is. It's like roof falling 349 00:17:04,440 --> 00:17:07,480 Speaker 2: in insurance really, and so for me, that was the 350 00:17:07,520 --> 00:17:10,959 Speaker 2: biggest vulnerability. And also then you don't understand how to 351 00:17:11,080 --> 00:17:13,960 Speaker 2: navigate it. There's all these different plans and it's like 352 00:17:14,000 --> 00:17:17,840 Speaker 2: deliberately made so hard, and I just got physically angry 353 00:17:17,840 --> 00:17:20,359 Speaker 2: writing the healthcare chapter because I got like, again, I 354 00:17:20,440 --> 00:17:24,200 Speaker 2: can afford that money, right, but what if all these 355 00:17:24,320 --> 00:17:26,960 Speaker 2: millions and millions of people in this country on Medicaid, 356 00:17:27,400 --> 00:17:28,920 Speaker 2: which they may or may not lose in the next 357 00:17:28,920 --> 00:17:31,760 Speaker 2: little bit, you know, how the hell are they supposed 358 00:17:31,760 --> 00:17:33,639 Speaker 2: to So we did make sure to cover and especially 359 00:17:33,680 --> 00:17:35,840 Speaker 2: in every chapter if it could be money legal, we 360 00:17:36,000 --> 00:17:39,679 Speaker 2: cover everybody in every income frame, like if you have this, 361 00:17:40,080 --> 00:17:42,439 Speaker 2: call this person. If you need legal aid, call this person. 362 00:17:42,520 --> 00:17:45,960 Speaker 2: Here's how you can get on medicaid. Again, the vulnerability 363 00:17:46,080 --> 00:17:48,560 Speaker 2: is the most terrifying feeling, and there are people with 364 00:17:49,000 --> 00:17:51,720 Speaker 2: less resources than we have, you know, and it's so 365 00:17:51,720 --> 00:17:53,640 Speaker 2: so scary. So we want to be able to pick 366 00:17:53,680 --> 00:17:55,720 Speaker 2: up a book. Go, okay, I can do that, all right, 367 00:17:55,800 --> 00:17:58,680 Speaker 2: And that's all the things that we wish we'd known. 368 00:18:19,600 --> 00:18:23,480 Speaker 1: It sounds like fairly recently you both realized you had 369 00:18:23,480 --> 00:18:26,800 Speaker 1: this shared experience of being fired, and you realized that 370 00:18:26,840 --> 00:18:29,520 Speaker 1: you wanted to share this story with a wider audience. 371 00:18:29,560 --> 00:18:31,199 Speaker 1: Take me into those conversations. 372 00:18:31,880 --> 00:18:33,760 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's just sort of circumstantial, really. You know, we 373 00:18:33,800 --> 00:18:35,840 Speaker 2: worked together for eight years in Harper's Bazar. We've been 374 00:18:35,880 --> 00:18:38,960 Speaker 2: dear friends for almost twenty five Jesus years, and it 375 00:18:39,200 --> 00:18:42,639 Speaker 2: just happened. We were on sort of parallel tracks in 376 00:18:42,680 --> 00:18:45,280 Speaker 2: a way at Bizarre, and then Christina left to start 377 00:18:45,280 --> 00:18:47,840 Speaker 2: at WSJ mag in twenty twelve and I ended up 378 00:18:47,840 --> 00:18:50,240 Speaker 2: getting the install gig in twenty sixteen, so it did 379 00:18:50,320 --> 00:18:52,040 Speaker 2: both become editors in chief as well. So we had 380 00:18:52,080 --> 00:18:56,680 Speaker 2: similar timelines the whole way. But then I, after five 381 00:18:56,760 --> 00:19:00,159 Speaker 2: years insta I got canned first, and then Christina did 382 00:19:00,280 --> 00:19:01,720 Speaker 2: a year and a bit later. So it just was 383 00:19:01,760 --> 00:19:06,040 Speaker 2: our what happened, you know, in our lives and friendships 384 00:19:06,040 --> 00:19:08,680 Speaker 2: and in any ways any friends would when I got fired, 385 00:19:08,720 --> 00:19:10,959 Speaker 2: Christiana's you're right, what do you need? You know? All that, 386 00:19:11,000 --> 00:19:14,080 Speaker 2: and then the similar thing happened fourteen months later. 387 00:19:14,680 --> 00:19:17,720 Speaker 3: Yeah, when our friends kind of tease that like, thank 388 00:19:17,760 --> 00:19:20,120 Speaker 3: god Laura got fired first because she sort of had 389 00:19:20,119 --> 00:19:23,440 Speaker 3: come through it and was her plucky self and kind 390 00:19:23,440 --> 00:19:25,879 Speaker 3: of like, you know, okay, so like this happened, but 391 00:19:25,960 --> 00:19:28,359 Speaker 3: obviously she was like devastated and it was a shock, 392 00:19:28,520 --> 00:19:31,639 Speaker 3: but at the same time, because of her sort of 393 00:19:31,680 --> 00:19:35,320 Speaker 3: like positivity and confidence the minute it happened to me, 394 00:19:35,680 --> 00:19:37,480 Speaker 3: she was the first person who hopped into my head, 395 00:19:37,520 --> 00:19:39,719 Speaker 3: and I was in fact texting her under the table 396 00:19:39,920 --> 00:19:42,479 Speaker 3: while I was sitting in the HR room, you know, 397 00:19:42,600 --> 00:19:47,800 Speaker 3: being handed my fate. And so not only was Laura 398 00:19:47,840 --> 00:19:51,000 Speaker 3: there for me, like personally, but she became like a 399 00:19:51,040 --> 00:19:54,959 Speaker 3: resource because when you get fired, there are so many 400 00:19:55,000 --> 00:19:57,840 Speaker 3: things that you don't know until you need to know them, right, 401 00:19:58,080 --> 00:19:59,160 Speaker 3: Like do you. 402 00:19:59,119 --> 00:19:59,760 Speaker 1: Need a lawyer? 403 00:20:00,160 --> 00:20:02,120 Speaker 3: What is cobra? You know, and all of these things. 404 00:20:02,119 --> 00:20:05,000 Speaker 3: So Laura was also an emotional resource, but she was 405 00:20:05,000 --> 00:20:08,199 Speaker 3: also like a resource resource in the sense of, you know, 406 00:20:08,280 --> 00:20:11,320 Speaker 3: I was just trying to get like numbers and information 407 00:20:11,440 --> 00:20:14,840 Speaker 3: out of her. So after we had this drink, the 408 00:20:14,880 --> 00:20:18,600 Speaker 3: fateful Instagram post where you know, the response was so 409 00:20:18,680 --> 00:20:22,320 Speaker 3: immediate and so many women started writing in this happened 410 00:20:22,320 --> 00:20:25,399 Speaker 3: to me, Oh my god, you know, welcome to the club. 411 00:20:25,560 --> 00:20:28,840 Speaker 3: Like we really kind of immediately recognized that there was 412 00:20:28,840 --> 00:20:32,879 Speaker 3: a community around this sort of ownership of admitting what 413 00:20:32,960 --> 00:20:36,120 Speaker 3: had happened to us. And so the next morning Laura 414 00:20:36,200 --> 00:20:38,879 Speaker 3: had written the headline. But I called her and said, 415 00:20:39,240 --> 00:20:41,240 Speaker 3: this is a book. You know, this is a book, 416 00:20:41,320 --> 00:20:45,280 Speaker 3: Like there's so much information out there that we can 417 00:20:45,440 --> 00:20:49,080 Speaker 3: compile into one place, but not only that, there are 418 00:20:49,080 --> 00:20:51,920 Speaker 3: women out there whose stories we can learn from. 419 00:20:52,400 --> 00:20:55,760 Speaker 2: Because you feel helpless. Look number one, you know, regardless 420 00:20:55,840 --> 00:20:58,119 Speaker 2: of your income and breaking news, having more money than 421 00:20:58,200 --> 00:21:01,800 Speaker 2: less is easier. The feeling is the same when you 422 00:21:01,840 --> 00:21:03,920 Speaker 2: get fired, and the feeling is like a word. Maybe 423 00:21:03,960 --> 00:21:08,200 Speaker 2: you'll bleep, but the feeling is like shit. You feel naive, 424 00:21:08,720 --> 00:21:11,600 Speaker 2: you feel vulnerable. And this is coming from two ladies 425 00:21:11,600 --> 00:21:15,000 Speaker 2: who are by all intents and purposes successful, had successful jobs. 426 00:21:15,359 --> 00:21:17,479 Speaker 2: But we didn't know about Cobra. I didn't know that 427 00:21:17,560 --> 00:21:19,359 Speaker 2: I wouldn't have health insurance for a week until I 428 00:21:19,400 --> 00:21:21,400 Speaker 2: got a card in the mail. We didn't know all 429 00:21:21,440 --> 00:21:23,600 Speaker 2: of these things, and we thought, if we don't know 430 00:21:23,640 --> 00:21:25,840 Speaker 2: these things, that means everyone else doesn't know these things. 431 00:21:25,840 --> 00:21:28,600 Speaker 3: I hadn't updated my resume in a decade, Like I 432 00:21:28,600 --> 00:21:31,479 Speaker 3: hadn't touched my resume. Like the job market and the 433 00:21:31,520 --> 00:21:34,760 Speaker 3: tools and the resources that people were using to get 434 00:21:34,880 --> 00:21:38,040 Speaker 3: hired had changed dramatically in the decade that I was 435 00:21:38,119 --> 00:21:41,840 Speaker 3: like sitting you know, comfortably, you know, kept. 436 00:21:41,600 --> 00:21:44,760 Speaker 2: At at WSJ, We were on LinkedIn, you know. 437 00:21:45,640 --> 00:21:49,600 Speaker 3: So it wasn't just the sort of like scary things 438 00:21:49,680 --> 00:21:52,280 Speaker 3: that felt very real and immediate. It was also the 439 00:21:52,320 --> 00:21:55,320 Speaker 3: stuff about like getting in the headspace to get back 440 00:21:55,400 --> 00:21:58,400 Speaker 3: out there, and how do you go about that when 441 00:21:58,560 --> 00:22:01,800 Speaker 3: you've like literally take your foot off the gas because 442 00:22:01,800 --> 00:22:04,600 Speaker 3: you've been like revving over here for ten years. 443 00:22:05,000 --> 00:22:07,520 Speaker 1: What's really cool about this book that you've both written 444 00:22:07,800 --> 00:22:10,840 Speaker 1: is that it's bigger than just your experience. You are 445 00:22:10,960 --> 00:22:14,960 Speaker 1: just two women out of thousands of women who have 446 00:22:15,320 --> 00:22:19,119 Speaker 1: experienced this. And in your book you spoke with several successful, 447 00:22:19,200 --> 00:22:21,439 Speaker 1: high profile women who have also been fired, which I 448 00:22:21,480 --> 00:22:25,760 Speaker 1: really think does numbers in terms of normalizing this experience 449 00:22:25,800 --> 00:22:28,800 Speaker 1: for all of us. And let's talk about my mount 450 00:22:28,880 --> 00:22:30,880 Speaker 1: rushmore of women that you spoke to for this book. 451 00:22:31,000 --> 00:22:34,639 Speaker 1: Katie Kuric, Oprah Winfrey, Lisa Kudro. I mean, there are 452 00:22:34,680 --> 00:22:39,200 Speaker 1: so many others. What surprised you about hearing their personal 453 00:22:39,240 --> 00:22:40,879 Speaker 1: experiences with being fired? 454 00:22:41,400 --> 00:22:44,000 Speaker 3: They all felt like we did. There wasn't a single 455 00:22:44,040 --> 00:22:47,439 Speaker 3: woman who we interviewed who doesn't have total recall of 456 00:22:47,480 --> 00:22:50,120 Speaker 3: the moment that she was told she was being let go. 457 00:22:50,960 --> 00:22:55,480 Speaker 3: And I think that is the universality of the experience, 458 00:22:55,640 --> 00:23:00,680 Speaker 3: and the fact that these enormously successful women still carry 459 00:23:00,800 --> 00:23:03,359 Speaker 3: the moment that it happened to them with them to 460 00:23:03,440 --> 00:23:06,760 Speaker 3: this day was something that was so reassuring, because so 461 00:23:06,920 --> 00:23:08,840 Speaker 3: much of it is like, why is it taking me 462 00:23:08,880 --> 00:23:11,040 Speaker 3: so long to get over this? Why am I still 463 00:23:11,080 --> 00:23:14,320 Speaker 3: so bitter about this? Why can't I move on? And 464 00:23:14,440 --> 00:23:17,720 Speaker 3: to hear that they were all able to soar to 465 00:23:17,760 --> 00:23:22,800 Speaker 3: the heights that they've achieved but still have that feeling, 466 00:23:23,600 --> 00:23:25,480 Speaker 3: it was really reassuring to know that. 467 00:23:26,160 --> 00:23:29,640 Speaker 2: And that was specifically why we chose these high profile, 468 00:23:29,720 --> 00:23:33,680 Speaker 2: sometimes highly famous, highly successful women, is because they did 469 00:23:33,720 --> 00:23:36,640 Speaker 2: feel like you. They were crying on the couch, They 470 00:23:36,640 --> 00:23:40,200 Speaker 2: did think all was lost. To be like Oprah Oprah 471 00:23:40,280 --> 00:23:43,000 Speaker 2: Winfrey who has like an island and a fresh vegetable 472 00:23:43,000 --> 00:23:46,680 Speaker 2: basket every Thursday, like she felt like me, but the 473 00:23:46,800 --> 00:23:49,840 Speaker 2: now she's there, or Katie or Mika or Taranta Brooke 474 00:23:50,280 --> 00:23:54,600 Speaker 2: like they were fetal, they were worried, they didn't have 475 00:23:54,640 --> 00:23:56,920 Speaker 2: any money, they were worried about reputation. They are all 476 00:23:56,920 --> 00:23:59,080 Speaker 2: of these things that you consider when you've been fined 477 00:23:59,119 --> 00:24:01,359 Speaker 2: and sort of like, wow, look at them now. But 478 00:24:01,400 --> 00:24:04,439 Speaker 2: that's entirely the point, so you're immediately you sort of 479 00:24:04,520 --> 00:24:06,400 Speaker 2: bolstered and inspired. 480 00:24:07,280 --> 00:24:09,680 Speaker 1: Well, there's a quote from Oprah that really stood out 481 00:24:09,680 --> 00:24:11,600 Speaker 1: to me when she's talking about how she was fired 482 00:24:11,640 --> 00:24:14,800 Speaker 1: from a TV job in Baltimore, and she said that 483 00:24:14,880 --> 00:24:17,480 Speaker 1: it was the first moment in her life when she 484 00:24:17,640 --> 00:24:20,720 Speaker 1: realized quote, something I had done was not good enough, 485 00:24:20,760 --> 00:24:24,160 Speaker 1: and therefore I wasn't good enough for me. That really 486 00:24:24,160 --> 00:24:27,879 Speaker 1: crystallizes the shame that we all feel when we go 487 00:24:27,960 --> 00:24:30,640 Speaker 1: through moments like this, when either could be your passover 488 00:24:30,760 --> 00:24:32,960 Speaker 1: for a promotion, it could be your demoted, or it 489 00:24:33,000 --> 00:24:34,560 Speaker 1: could be your lego. 490 00:24:35,760 --> 00:24:38,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, and you know, one thing that we really focused 491 00:24:38,160 --> 00:24:41,720 Speaker 2: on a lot to reassure women men anyone now is 492 00:24:42,160 --> 00:24:44,840 Speaker 2: work itself is no longer linear now, So now one 493 00:24:44,880 --> 00:24:48,119 Speaker 2: thing we really want to add every day, don't you 494 00:24:48,160 --> 00:24:50,720 Speaker 2: get a different push a lot about layoffs like Novo 495 00:24:50,960 --> 00:24:53,800 Speaker 2: ortice that just invented Mozempic just laid off nine thousand 496 00:24:53,840 --> 00:24:56,760 Speaker 2: people the other day Disney Paramount Dyson. When we were 497 00:24:56,760 --> 00:24:59,920 Speaker 2: writing the book, was laying off people so often now, 498 00:25:00,119 --> 00:25:03,080 Speaker 2: the vast, vast, vast majority of the time, the layoff 499 00:25:03,119 --> 00:25:05,720 Speaker 2: is not personal. So there's so much to do with 500 00:25:05,840 --> 00:25:09,399 Speaker 2: job loss now that is circumstantial and not personal. What 501 00:25:09,440 --> 00:25:12,119 Speaker 2: we're really urging women to do is number one, remember 502 00:25:12,160 --> 00:25:14,200 Speaker 2: your own value and you brought the value to the job, 503 00:25:14,240 --> 00:25:17,480 Speaker 2: not the other way around. And to look around, look 504 00:25:17,520 --> 00:25:19,879 Speaker 2: around where you are and look at the situation around you, 505 00:25:19,960 --> 00:25:22,720 Speaker 2: and there's millions of people in the same position as you, 506 00:25:23,000 --> 00:25:25,080 Speaker 2: and there's a community there if you want to find it, 507 00:25:25,280 --> 00:25:28,080 Speaker 2: and there is a beat even if. And again, different 508 00:25:28,119 --> 00:25:30,840 Speaker 2: financial circumstances give you different amounts of time, but you 509 00:25:30,880 --> 00:25:35,520 Speaker 2: always have some time to take a minute and think about. 510 00:25:35,600 --> 00:25:37,159 Speaker 2: And then one of the best pieces of advice in 511 00:25:37,200 --> 00:25:39,120 Speaker 2: the book is from Ron Lieber, who's the money columnist 512 00:25:39,119 --> 00:25:41,359 Speaker 2: from New York Times, and he said, take a minute 513 00:25:41,400 --> 00:25:44,080 Speaker 2: to think about what made you more happy and less 514 00:25:44,119 --> 00:25:46,639 Speaker 2: happy over the course of your career. What can you 515 00:25:46,720 --> 00:25:50,760 Speaker 2: do to increase the happiness and decrease the unhappiness. So 516 00:25:50,920 --> 00:25:54,399 Speaker 2: from like an Oprah situation where it was personal and 517 00:25:54,440 --> 00:25:57,080 Speaker 2: there was all of these overtones to that place, so 518 00:25:57,240 --> 00:26:01,240 Speaker 2: unhealthy racism, middle aged boys club stuff, all that stuff 519 00:26:01,280 --> 00:26:03,359 Speaker 2: she had to deal with, And the beautiful twist of 520 00:26:03,400 --> 00:26:05,560 Speaker 2: fate with Oprah is a year later, the new manager 521 00:26:05,600 --> 00:26:07,800 Speaker 2: comes up to her and says, let's start a talk show, 522 00:26:07,840 --> 00:26:10,320 Speaker 2: what do you Reckon? And the rest is history. So 523 00:26:10,960 --> 00:26:14,320 Speaker 2: you know, Fade intervene and her skills were still recognized, 524 00:26:15,000 --> 00:26:17,399 Speaker 2: and so now you know the TV network can be 525 00:26:17,520 --> 00:26:20,280 Speaker 2: YouTube can be, podcasts can be subseeck can be TikTok 526 00:26:20,320 --> 00:26:22,560 Speaker 2: can be, making cookies can be all of these different 527 00:26:22,600 --> 00:26:25,040 Speaker 2: things that are out there in the workplace. It is 528 00:26:25,080 --> 00:26:27,680 Speaker 2: so much more dominated by the individual now and it's 529 00:26:27,720 --> 00:26:29,679 Speaker 2: there for you again. But you've got to let yourself 530 00:26:29,720 --> 00:26:32,600 Speaker 2: see it, and sometimes being fired shocks you into that. 531 00:26:33,280 --> 00:26:37,320 Speaker 1: Absolutely. We've got to take a short break. We'll be 532 00:26:37,400 --> 00:26:44,040 Speaker 1: right back with Laura Brown and Christina O'Neil and we're back. Well, 533 00:26:44,080 --> 00:26:47,159 Speaker 1: I want to dive deeper into the cool girl's guide 534 00:26:47,200 --> 00:26:51,200 Speaker 1: to being fired. So Christina, let's say it happens right, 535 00:26:51,320 --> 00:26:55,040 Speaker 1: you get that call you've been fired. What is the 536 00:26:55,119 --> 00:26:57,240 Speaker 1: first step that cool girl should take? 537 00:26:57,600 --> 00:27:02,320 Speaker 3: After that happens, Laura said about taking that minute, taking 538 00:27:02,320 --> 00:27:05,280 Speaker 3: a beat is really crucial. But I think the instinct 539 00:27:05,320 --> 00:27:07,720 Speaker 3: is you open up your bank account app and you 540 00:27:07,920 --> 00:27:13,240 Speaker 3: like refresh immediately and start doing your board of Okay, 541 00:27:13,440 --> 00:27:17,359 Speaker 3: the money, the healthcare, the opportunities that are going to 542 00:27:17,440 --> 00:27:20,960 Speaker 3: pop up, so getting your plan in place, you know, 543 00:27:21,080 --> 00:27:23,000 Speaker 3: kind of figuring out where to go from there. 544 00:27:24,119 --> 00:27:27,479 Speaker 1: A big part of your work in this book is 545 00:27:28,000 --> 00:27:31,880 Speaker 1: encouraging women to take control of the narrative after you've 546 00:27:31,920 --> 00:27:35,000 Speaker 1: been fired, and Laura, I know that that was big 547 00:27:35,080 --> 00:27:38,280 Speaker 1: for you, just being really honest with both with yourself 548 00:27:38,320 --> 00:27:40,960 Speaker 1: and with the world about what happened, instead of hiding 549 00:27:41,000 --> 00:27:45,480 Speaker 1: behind some sort of euphemism like I left. Why was 550 00:27:45,480 --> 00:27:47,760 Speaker 1: that important to own it in that moment and what 551 00:27:47,760 --> 00:27:48,680 Speaker 1: did that do for you? 552 00:27:49,560 --> 00:27:52,000 Speaker 2: Christine? I come from an industry that is ducks on 553 00:27:52,040 --> 00:27:55,120 Speaker 2: a pond. My life's fabulous, you know, da da da da. 554 00:27:55,119 --> 00:27:57,000 Speaker 2: It's so judge and appearances, And we come from an 555 00:27:57,000 --> 00:28:00,400 Speaker 2: industry it's literally in fashion judges you and where you sit, 556 00:28:00,720 --> 00:28:02,840 Speaker 2: like at a fashion show. It is like the everest 557 00:28:03,080 --> 00:28:06,040 Speaker 2: of that kind of keeping up appearances. So I think 558 00:28:06,040 --> 00:28:09,760 Speaker 2: it made us even more stubborn you know, it's almost 559 00:28:09,760 --> 00:28:14,360 Speaker 2: punk because we're surrounded by women who we know God fight, 560 00:28:15,359 --> 00:28:18,240 Speaker 2: I left, I chose, I stepped down, I stepped away. 561 00:28:18,280 --> 00:28:21,840 Speaker 2: We're like, honey, you got fired. It's okay. And frankly, 562 00:28:22,119 --> 00:28:25,960 Speaker 2: for us, there's ego in it because we know we're good. 563 00:28:26,359 --> 00:28:28,560 Speaker 2: We know we're bloody good at our jobs. We got 564 00:28:28,560 --> 00:28:32,280 Speaker 2: fired because the circumstances that we can't control. And that's okay. 565 00:28:32,359 --> 00:28:35,640 Speaker 2: And I would wager in so many businesses where again 566 00:28:35,920 --> 00:28:38,400 Speaker 2: thousands of people are losing their jobs these days, it's 567 00:28:38,400 --> 00:28:40,760 Speaker 2: not because you're not good, you know what I mean, 568 00:28:40,800 --> 00:28:42,240 Speaker 2: And don't forget that you're good. 569 00:28:42,800 --> 00:28:47,040 Speaker 3: It's also hard if you're carrying the lie, then how 570 00:28:47,040 --> 00:28:49,840 Speaker 3: are you telling people that you need a job or 571 00:28:49,920 --> 00:28:52,680 Speaker 3: you're ready to, you know, kind of explore something that's 572 00:28:52,840 --> 00:28:56,520 Speaker 3: a different path. And so that's why we really advocate 573 00:28:56,560 --> 00:28:59,640 Speaker 3: for the honesty, the sooner that you can own it 574 00:29:00,000 --> 00:29:02,200 Speaker 3: and get on with it. I'm not saying you're going 575 00:29:02,280 --> 00:29:03,840 Speaker 3: to get over it in a day, but you can 576 00:29:03,880 --> 00:29:08,680 Speaker 3: get on with it, and that you can then start 577 00:29:08,720 --> 00:29:10,240 Speaker 3: to sort of build what comes next. 578 00:29:10,720 --> 00:29:13,719 Speaker 1: Well, looking back over the ups and downs of my 579 00:29:13,760 --> 00:29:17,400 Speaker 1: own career, I am so grateful for those ego deaths 580 00:29:17,480 --> 00:29:22,520 Speaker 1: that I experienced, because I enjoyed the most tremendous rebirths 581 00:29:22,560 --> 00:29:24,880 Speaker 1: on the other side of that, And I think that 582 00:29:25,040 --> 00:29:28,000 Speaker 1: is the bright side of what you're writing about here. 583 00:29:28,560 --> 00:29:29,920 Speaker 1: It can be hard to see the light at the 584 00:29:30,000 --> 00:29:32,760 Speaker 1: end of the tunnel when a job ends unexpectedly, but 585 00:29:32,800 --> 00:29:36,000 Speaker 1: there's so much goodness to come. So, Christina, was there 586 00:29:36,040 --> 00:29:39,640 Speaker 1: a moment when you specifically realized, oh wait, this isn't 587 00:29:39,680 --> 00:29:41,600 Speaker 1: the end, this is actually the beginning. 588 00:29:42,000 --> 00:29:46,120 Speaker 3: Absolutely, it sounds so annoying to hear it. This is 589 00:29:46,160 --> 00:29:47,880 Speaker 3: going to be the best thing that ever happened to you. 590 00:29:48,440 --> 00:29:50,560 Speaker 3: Uh Like, in the moment, that is the last thing 591 00:29:50,600 --> 00:29:52,960 Speaker 3: you want to say to someone who's been fired. You know. 592 00:29:53,000 --> 00:29:57,080 Speaker 3: We hope that our book has enough of those types 593 00:29:57,120 --> 00:29:59,640 Speaker 3: of stories that people can kind of puzzle it together 594 00:29:59,640 --> 00:30:02,320 Speaker 3: for them without someone having to sit there and be like, 595 00:30:02,440 --> 00:30:04,640 Speaker 3: you're going to look back on this one day but 596 00:30:04,840 --> 00:30:07,480 Speaker 3: inevitably two and a half years later, which is where 597 00:30:07,480 --> 00:30:10,040 Speaker 3: I now sit. It was the best thing that ever 598 00:30:10,080 --> 00:30:15,200 Speaker 3: happened to me. And how I got there was by 599 00:30:15,280 --> 00:30:18,760 Speaker 3: owning it, by taking every single call and meeting. You know, 600 00:30:18,840 --> 00:30:21,120 Speaker 3: I work for an auction house. Now I work at Sotheby's. 601 00:30:21,760 --> 00:30:23,960 Speaker 3: And you know, if you had told me three years 602 00:30:23,960 --> 00:30:26,240 Speaker 3: ago that I was going to work in an auction house, 603 00:30:26,360 --> 00:30:28,880 Speaker 3: that would have never been the thing on the vision board. 604 00:30:29,160 --> 00:30:32,560 Speaker 3: But because I was forced to open myself up to 605 00:30:32,600 --> 00:30:35,720 Speaker 3: conversations and opportunities, you know, I am where I am now. 606 00:30:35,760 --> 00:30:38,480 Speaker 3: And the last sort of like Cherry on top right, 607 00:30:38,680 --> 00:30:40,320 Speaker 3: is that Laura and I were able to sort of 608 00:30:40,840 --> 00:30:45,360 Speaker 3: see a conversation in a community around what we were 609 00:30:45,440 --> 00:30:48,760 Speaker 3: personally going through and able to sort of, you know, 610 00:30:48,840 --> 00:30:52,760 Speaker 3: that entrepreneurial spirit that we've always sort of had, you know, 611 00:30:52,840 --> 00:30:56,000 Speaker 3: has translated into this book, and you know, we'll see 612 00:30:56,040 --> 00:30:56,880 Speaker 3: where it goes from here. 613 00:30:57,360 --> 00:31:01,040 Speaker 1: What I'm struck by throughout our conversation is both the 614 00:31:01,080 --> 00:31:04,560 Speaker 1: bond that you two have and the bond that I 615 00:31:04,680 --> 00:31:07,240 Speaker 1: have with my female friends that I've rose up through 616 00:31:07,240 --> 00:31:09,840 Speaker 1: the chinches with. And I think there's a real opportunity 617 00:31:09,880 --> 00:31:13,200 Speaker 1: here not just to reflect on our own experiences with firing, 618 00:31:13,240 --> 00:31:15,840 Speaker 1: but to think about how we can support other cool 619 00:31:15,880 --> 00:31:20,600 Speaker 1: girls during their transition. Laura, what would be your word 620 00:31:20,760 --> 00:31:23,360 Speaker 1: for someone who has a friend who is going through 621 00:31:23,360 --> 00:31:25,560 Speaker 1: this right now? How can we be supportive of other 622 00:31:25,680 --> 00:31:26,800 Speaker 1: cool girls? Will get fired. 623 00:31:27,520 --> 00:31:31,520 Speaker 2: Call your friends, you know, call your friends, text your friend. 624 00:31:31,760 --> 00:31:35,120 Speaker 2: Don't worry about not knowing what to say. You can 625 00:31:35,120 --> 00:31:38,040 Speaker 2: just go this sucks because I found that again so 626 00:31:38,160 --> 00:31:39,760 Speaker 2: reassuring on that day when I couldn't get off the 627 00:31:39,760 --> 00:31:41,440 Speaker 2: bed because all the messages were coming in. Just be 628 00:31:41,520 --> 00:31:43,000 Speaker 2: around for them. You may not be able to get 629 00:31:43,000 --> 00:31:44,719 Speaker 2: them hired, you may not have financial IMSS, you may 630 00:31:44,720 --> 00:31:46,520 Speaker 2: have any of that, but your a friend. I'll go 631 00:31:46,560 --> 00:31:48,160 Speaker 2: buy you a drink. Here's a bottle of wine. You 632 00:31:48,160 --> 00:31:50,080 Speaker 2: want to drown your sorrows for a minute, I'm here. 633 00:31:50,760 --> 00:31:53,320 Speaker 2: If you want to just be alone, I'm here as well. 634 00:31:53,360 --> 00:31:55,880 Speaker 2: I think that's the thing, because the worst feeling that 635 00:31:55,920 --> 00:31:58,520 Speaker 2: can come when you've been fired is feeling alone. And 636 00:31:58,600 --> 00:32:01,680 Speaker 2: so anything you can do to make your friend feel 637 00:32:02,040 --> 00:32:04,200 Speaker 2: less isolated. They mightn't want to go out, they might 638 00:32:04,360 --> 00:32:07,320 Speaker 2: want to sit at home many Chinese for a week, 639 00:32:07,360 --> 00:32:10,120 Speaker 2: and that's okay. Anything you can to not make your 640 00:32:10,120 --> 00:32:11,920 Speaker 2: friend feel isolated. Just get on the phone. 641 00:32:11,960 --> 00:32:13,719 Speaker 1: I like that you said get on the phone because 642 00:32:14,000 --> 00:32:16,480 Speaker 1: I miss calls. I miss phone calls, I miss chatting 643 00:32:16,520 --> 00:32:19,360 Speaker 1: with friends. And listen, there are some life transitions that 644 00:32:19,480 --> 00:32:21,239 Speaker 1: warn't a phone call. The text is just not going 645 00:32:21,280 --> 00:32:21,640 Speaker 1: to cut it. 646 00:32:22,880 --> 00:32:24,440 Speaker 2: And whichever way you do it, even if it's like 647 00:32:24,440 --> 00:32:25,920 Speaker 2: I'm here if you need me, you know what I mean, 648 00:32:25,960 --> 00:32:30,400 Speaker 2: Because sometimes also you don't feel like rehashing it, so 649 00:32:30,440 --> 00:32:32,440 Speaker 2: it's also sort of reading the room for your friend 650 00:32:32,480 --> 00:32:33,960 Speaker 2: and be like, you know, okay, thank you God, I'm 651 00:32:34,000 --> 00:32:35,480 Speaker 2: just gonna sit with it for a minute, you know 652 00:32:35,560 --> 00:32:38,040 Speaker 2: what I mean. It's the knowing that you've got people 653 00:32:38,120 --> 00:32:41,560 Speaker 2: there that's the greatest comfort while you're sort of like 654 00:32:41,600 --> 00:32:43,360 Speaker 2: a beadle on its back, you know, before you can 655 00:32:43,400 --> 00:32:45,320 Speaker 2: turn yourself over a little bit and get on with it. 656 00:32:45,520 --> 00:32:47,920 Speaker 1: Well, as we wrap up this conversation, I would love 657 00:32:47,960 --> 00:32:50,040 Speaker 1: to I don't always do this, but I would love 658 00:32:50,080 --> 00:32:52,520 Speaker 1: to give both of you the floor if there's anything 659 00:32:52,720 --> 00:32:54,000 Speaker 1: that you would like to add. 660 00:32:54,560 --> 00:32:57,080 Speaker 2: I have my favorite analogy show I do it. It 661 00:32:57,160 --> 00:32:59,280 Speaker 2: really is my favorite. Say if you're in a long 662 00:32:59,320 --> 00:33:02,040 Speaker 2: standing job, or any job to which you attached for 663 00:33:02,120 --> 00:33:04,720 Speaker 2: a long time, and you go to that job every day, 664 00:33:04,720 --> 00:33:06,480 Speaker 2: and that job is like a sandpit, you know, and 665 00:33:06,560 --> 00:33:08,480 Speaker 2: you go to the sandpit every day, and you know 666 00:33:08,560 --> 00:33:13,160 Speaker 2: the sandpit, you know everybody in the sandpit, and you're like, hi, Jenny, Hi, Hi, Johnny. 667 00:33:13,240 --> 00:33:16,480 Speaker 2: You know, every day, repeat, repeat, Hi Jenny, y Johnny. 668 00:33:16,480 --> 00:33:18,320 Speaker 2: It's a safe sand pit. It's fine. It's by maybe 669 00:33:18,400 --> 00:33:22,160 Speaker 2: one day of dog poops in it, you're like, oh, hi, Jenny, 670 00:33:22,200 --> 00:33:25,280 Speaker 2: Hi Johnny. You know you just because it's familiar. It's familiar. 671 00:33:25,320 --> 00:33:26,680 Speaker 2: You go to the sandpit, you go to the sandpit. 672 00:33:26,720 --> 00:33:29,120 Speaker 2: You're going to send it. Then one day you get fired, 673 00:33:29,960 --> 00:33:33,240 Speaker 2: and then you're like, there was a beach there. The 674 00:33:33,560 --> 00:33:36,800 Speaker 2: entire time, I've been spending my time in this progressively 675 00:33:36,800 --> 00:33:41,800 Speaker 2: more stinky sandpit. And it's just you tend to blinker yourself, 676 00:33:42,440 --> 00:33:45,880 Speaker 2: you know, we all do in our workplace. And sometimes 677 00:33:45,960 --> 00:33:48,960 Speaker 2: you've got to be shocked into the wider world. And 678 00:33:49,040 --> 00:33:53,080 Speaker 2: while it feels tough, again, we promise there's everyone there 679 00:33:53,080 --> 00:33:55,320 Speaker 2: for you. This book is there for you to rebuild 680 00:33:55,360 --> 00:33:57,400 Speaker 2: yourself and have a much more fulfilling life than you 681 00:33:57,440 --> 00:33:58,480 Speaker 2: really ever thought you could. 682 00:33:58,600 --> 00:34:01,600 Speaker 3: Honestly, I just come back. You have to own what 683 00:34:01,680 --> 00:34:04,280 Speaker 3: happens to you, whether it's in firing or in other 684 00:34:04,360 --> 00:34:07,600 Speaker 3: corners of your life. And the more honest you are 685 00:34:07,720 --> 00:34:11,439 Speaker 3: with yourself and with your friends and your network, then 686 00:34:11,840 --> 00:34:16,160 Speaker 3: I honestly believe that then more sort of positive things 687 00:34:16,280 --> 00:34:19,680 Speaker 3: and more good comes of being able to live your 688 00:34:19,760 --> 00:34:24,280 Speaker 3: life openly. So that's my number one piece of advice 689 00:34:24,400 --> 00:34:26,759 Speaker 3: is you don't need to carry the shame. Those days 690 00:34:26,800 --> 00:34:30,839 Speaker 3: are over and there's a community out there if you're 691 00:34:30,840 --> 00:34:32,440 Speaker 3: willing to just sort of pick your head up and 692 00:34:32,440 --> 00:34:35,200 Speaker 3: look for it exactly, and they're all on the beach. 693 00:34:37,880 --> 00:34:40,680 Speaker 1: Christina and Laura, thank you so much. 694 00:34:41,200 --> 00:34:45,160 Speaker 3: Thank you. Yeah, this was really really special. 695 00:34:45,400 --> 00:34:45,839 Speaker 1: Thank you. 696 00:34:45,840 --> 00:34:47,719 Speaker 2: You're brilliant. Thank you so much. 697 00:34:49,440 --> 00:34:51,920 Speaker 1: The Right Side is a production of Hello Sunshine and 698 00:34:51,960 --> 00:34:55,600 Speaker 1: iHeart Podcasts and is executive produced by Reese Witherspoon and 699 00:34:55,640 --> 00:34:59,960 Speaker 1: me Simone Boyce. Production is by a Cast Creative Studios. 700 00:35:00,239 --> 00:35:04,120 Speaker 1: Our producers are Taylor Williamson, Adrian Bain, Abby Delk, and 701 00:35:04,239 --> 00:35:09,480 Speaker 1: Darby Masters. Our production assistant is Joya putnoy Acasts. Executive 702 00:35:09,480 --> 00:35:13,200 Speaker 1: producers are Jenny Kaplan and Emily Rudder. Maureen Polo and 703 00:35:13,320 --> 00:35:17,359 Speaker 1: Ryese Witherspoon are the executive producers for Hello Sunshine. Ali 704 00:35:17,480 --> 00:35:21,560 Speaker 1: Perry and Lauren Hansen are the executive producers for iHeart Podcasts. 705 00:35:22,120 --> 00:35:25,680 Speaker 1: Our theme song is by Anna Stump and Hamilton Lighthouser.