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Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to Rewind with Karen and Georgia.

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Speaker 2: Every Wednesday, we recap our old shows with all new commentary, updates,

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Speaker 2: and insights.

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Speaker 1: Today we're recapping episode sixty two, which we named Trust

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Speaker 1: Issues and Ice Skate Shoes.

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Speaker 2: This episode came out on March thirtieth, twenty seventeen.

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Speaker 1: All right, let's listen. I feel like I'm going to

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Speaker 1: be the one that doesn't know the name of ice

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Speaker 1: skating shoes, and so says ice skate Shoes. Use you,

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Speaker 1: you'd think, but you'll be surprised. Okay, all right, let's

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Speaker 1: listen to the intro of episode sixty two.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to my favorite Murder episode.

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Speaker 1: What is it? Sixty seven? Is it? I think?

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Speaker 2: So?

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Speaker 1: Wow?

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Speaker 2: It's up there. We're pushing seventy baby. Holy crap, I

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Speaker 2: know that's kind of weird. Yeah, we're still kind of

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Speaker 2: a baby, but we're not.

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Speaker 1: We're like one of those old babies that's at New

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Speaker 1: Year's that you're like, should that baby still be breastfeeding?

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Speaker 2: You're like, that baby shouldn't be up this late, and

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Speaker 2: it shouldn't be wearing a suit.

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Speaker 1: No, No, isn't nowhere to see older babies with diapers?

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Speaker 1: And I don't know how old babies are supposed to

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Speaker 1: be my still wearing diapers and you're like, is that

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Speaker 1: not right?

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Speaker 2: You mean the ones that are also wearing polo shirts,

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Speaker 2: like didn't stand around with long hair drinking bottles like

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Speaker 2: they run the place like adults.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, oh yeah, Hey, I met a girl today who

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Speaker 1: met Ted Bundy's brother. Really yeah. She said that she

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Speaker 1: grew up like in the town, but she was a

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Speaker 1: lot younger. And she said that she was at a

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Speaker 1: bar one time back home and her friend introduced her

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Speaker 1: to this guy and she was like, the whole time

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Speaker 1: was like something, there's something about his face looks familiar.

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Speaker 1: And then she said, but he also had this like

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Speaker 1: in his eyes, this incredible look of sadness. And when

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Speaker 1: he left, her friend was like, that's Ted Bundy's little brother.

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Speaker 1: Oh wow, I know that's crazy. Now can you imagine?

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Speaker 1: Did he have a little brother? Well maybe she was lying.

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Speaker 1: I don't know.

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Speaker 2: I mean now, I really I'm the last person who

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Speaker 2: would know for sure. And I did Ted Bundy on

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Speaker 2: this show, why would you know? But I mean it

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Speaker 2: doesn't stick with me. But I know he had an

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Speaker 2: older sister that also was his mom.

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Speaker 1: Right. I wonder if his little brother, if he had one,

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Speaker 1: was his mom's sister, if it was same six right sister,

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Speaker 1: if it was if they figured that stuff out in

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Speaker 1: the Bundy family after Ted left right, or yeah, if

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Speaker 1: it was yeah, yeah still rabbit hole.

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Speaker 2: Uh. I bet his last name wasn't Bundy? I think

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Speaker 2: it was really Yeah, So.

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Speaker 1: It was like, this is Mike Bundy, Peter Mike Bundy,

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Speaker 1: Peter Mike or Greg Bundy, the Bundy bunch. It's a

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Speaker 1: Mondy bunch. Come on, let me say it when we're

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Speaker 1: so wait.

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Speaker 2: You didn't when you said those three names, you didn't

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Speaker 2: realize you were doing a Brady bunch of reference until

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Speaker 2: until that moment.

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Speaker 1: There's two I didn't, but Greg I did.

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Speaker 2: Then you caught up to yourself. And that's the moment

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Speaker 2: of comedy.

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Speaker 1: Is that it?

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Speaker 2: That's the fun moment where you go the comedy's writing itself.

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Speaker 2: Oh that's what that's phrase means, It writes itself.

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Speaker 1: Oh, it doesn't really so much to learn.

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Speaker 2: It reminds me of your awesome blossom moment on stage.

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Speaker 1: Working. You'll all know what we're talking about later on

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Speaker 1: if we decide to post it.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, it's just always a secret. Yeah, this is

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Speaker 2: my favorite murder. Bye the bye if anyone is.

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Speaker 1: Unsure, Yeah my murder. That's Karen. I'm Georgia. We just

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Speaker 1: got back from three shows in Portland that all are

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Speaker 1: fucking awesome.

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Speaker 2: Such a fun weekend, and thank you for the donuts,

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Speaker 2: thank you for the laughter and the screaming. Thank you

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Speaker 2: for lots of good stories and things to walk away from.

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Speaker 2: Revolutional was such a fun place to perform.

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Speaker 1: In case we don't post it, can you tell the

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Speaker 1: story of the Army Crawl?

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Speaker 2: Yes, so let's see. That was the second night.

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Speaker 1: I think so. No, no, it was the first night,

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Speaker 1: second show.

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Speaker 2: Okay, yes, first night, second show, so second.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: We were at the end and I had picked a

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Speaker 2: girl to do her hometown murder.

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Speaker 1: We called someone up from the audience and she was telling.

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Speaker 2: This story about how her cousin found a dead body,

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Speaker 2: and it was immediately my favorite story we've had so

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Speaker 2: far because it was all the things that I enjoy,

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Speaker 2: which is her cousin happening upon a dead body in

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Speaker 2: a creek.

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Speaker 1: Come to find out that's the dead.

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Speaker 2: Body of a rapist and kidnapper, perhaps murderer who was

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Speaker 2: on the lamp.

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Speaker 1: So we were happy about him being dead, so that

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Speaker 1: didn't feel gross.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, no guilt about the body, about the finding of

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Speaker 2: the body, or the discussion of the finding of the body.

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Speaker 2: And as this girl is telling the story, she tells

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Speaker 2: the whole story of the crime he did right before

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Speaker 2: he went on the lamb and then somehow died in

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Speaker 2: the creek. They don't know, and she I asked a

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Speaker 2: specific question about did your cousin tell you anything about

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Speaker 2: what it felt like to find the body or touch

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Speaker 2: the body or whatever, and she said she didn't know,

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Speaker 2: and then they went Georgia said something. They went on

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Speaker 2: to talking. I look over Georgia's shoulder and there is

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Speaker 2: a girl Elmer Fud style, sneaking down the aisle.

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Speaker 1: Not the aisle on stage, no.

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Speaker 2: I watched her come up the aisle sneaking like a cartoon,

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Speaker 2: with her shoulders up and her knees raised high, sneaking,

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Speaker 2: and then she does an army roll onto the stage,

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Speaker 2: and that's when I interrupt the two of.

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Speaker 1: Them, and then it's across. Before this happened, I saw

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Speaker 1: Karen's face over my shoulder and it was like I

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Speaker 1: got chills just looking at your face because you looked

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Speaker 1: like horrified. Yeah, And I slowly turned around the smush

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Speaker 1: and there's a girl walking towards us on stage.

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Speaker 2: And I say, that's not cool. You have to get

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Speaker 2: off the stage right now. Straight up to her. I

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Speaker 2: was just like, because I'm thinking just drunk.

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Speaker 1: You know.

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Speaker 2: The beers a Revolutional Hall were three dollars. People were

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Speaker 2: definitely partying. It was the second show. It was a

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Speaker 2: bit ready.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: But she finally explains that she is the girl telling

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Speaker 2: the story.

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Speaker 1: Sister.

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Speaker 2: I want to see that girl's name was Nicole, but

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Speaker 2: I don't remember. There's no way. Finally we realized she's

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Speaker 2: okay to be there, and the only reason she came

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Speaker 2: up on stage was because she knew the answer to

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Speaker 2: the question I was asking.

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Speaker 1: And sister fashion she needed to correct her sister.

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Speaker 2: Yes, and her sister was doing something wrong, correct an

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Speaker 2: ad and then gave us great additional information. And then

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Speaker 2: it turned out to be the greatest hometown two parter

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Speaker 2: double sister storytelling.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. But then the next night too, another sister came up.

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Speaker 1: That was weird. Yes, that was super weird.

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Speaker 2: It was just like fine, it was sister backing up

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Speaker 2: sisters weekend all weekend in Portland.

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Speaker 1: That was great.

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Speaker 2: It was so much fun. Everybody was so great.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it really added Yeah, thank you Portland. We're allowed

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Speaker 1: to tease that we're going across the seas.

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Speaker 2: Yes, hello London, and is it Ireland?

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Speaker 1: Ireland and they're going to ban you now that you

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Speaker 1: said it like that. Uh no, that was actually really

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Speaker 1: good because you live there, right, No, that was Scotland. Whatever, No,

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Speaker 1: that's where we're going, right, it's London. A couple we

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Speaker 1: have a couple shows in England. This is the teas.

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Speaker 1: It's very teasy. We don't know what we're talking now.

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Speaker 2: A couple of shows in England, a show in Ireland.

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Speaker 1: And a couple shows in Australia. Yes, and New Zealand.

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Speaker 1: I mean we get to go to New Zealand. But yeah,

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Speaker 1: we're kind of just like, we don't know if we

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Speaker 1: have any listeners there, but we just really want to

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Speaker 1: go to New Zealand. We want to see what it

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Speaker 1: looks like. Yeah, that's gonna be fun.

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Speaker 2: So try to If you're in New Zealand and you

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Speaker 2: like this podcast, will you get a couple of your

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Speaker 2: friends to like it so that we have at least

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Speaker 2: fifty people at our show.

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Speaker 1: That's the dream. The dream is fifty.

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Speaker 2: And if you need to bring farm animals or children,

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Speaker 2: that's fine.

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Speaker 1: We just need to.

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Speaker 2: Fill up whatever your local church hall is, please.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, So we're going across internacion o.

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Speaker 1: We're like Pitbull. We're becoming international like summertime, well you know,

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Speaker 1: yeah yeah, summer or fall or summer in the anyway,

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Speaker 1: you'll hear more about it and it'll be this vague

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Speaker 1: when you hear about it again. Yeah, so don't expect

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Speaker 1: to get tickets. Okay, we are back from the intro.

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Speaker 2: I mean, we had to discuss what was an incredibly

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Speaker 2: legendary experience that I literally can still see it in

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Speaker 2: my head of standing because that theater was very small comparative,

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Speaker 2: so the stage was down close to the ground, so

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Speaker 2: literally I see the girl basically kind of sneaking up

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Speaker 2: to get on stage and in that same moment realize

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Speaker 2: anyone could do that. So watching her do it, I

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Speaker 2: was like, now other people are going to start doing it,

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Speaker 2: and people are going to fucking get up on a

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Speaker 2: stage with us.

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Speaker 1: It was scary. I mean it was a legit scary.

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Speaker 1: The other thing about was twenty seventeen, so no one

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Speaker 1: knew about how to act at a live podcast show,

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Speaker 1: like it was a thing that the MPR podcast did,

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Speaker 1: meaning everyone in the audience was well behaved and fucking

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Speaker 1: knew how to act and only had had two glasses

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Speaker 1: of Shibley instead of fucking six Long Island iced teas

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Speaker 1: as we like to do at our shows.

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Speaker 2: So yeah, that was more of the bad hip crowd,

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Speaker 2: and we were more of the people being like, let

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Speaker 2: me get up there with you, because I'm with you

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Speaker 2: every time I listened to your podcast.

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Speaker 1: That's my sister. You guys are my sisters. I'm coming

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Speaker 1: up and we like that energy, like the energy.

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Speaker 2: We just need to know what's that you can't sneak

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Speaker 2: out of the dark out, So the sneaking made it

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Speaker 2: very scary, which is very funny.

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Speaker 1: That's like joecros step. But for it, I loved her

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Speaker 1: and this.

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Speaker 2: Story was it was so worth it. The whole thing

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Speaker 2: was hilarious. Yeah, so it did pay off. But it

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Speaker 2: is funny because then talking about we should have a

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Speaker 2: live show etiquette guide, Yes, like what would you put

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Speaker 2: in the live show etiquette guide?

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Speaker 1: Now, well, you do the whole story at the beginning

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Speaker 1: of that, don't do this, don't do that. But yeah,

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Speaker 1: you know what it would be, put your phone down,

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Speaker 1: That's what it would be, take your pictures in the beginning, whatever,

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Speaker 1: video whatever. But there's sometimes people who just have their

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Speaker 1: phone up videoing the entire show, and if it's distracting

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Speaker 1: to me, it's distracting to the person behind them, and like,

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Speaker 1: no one wants to watch your video of what they're watching.

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Speaker 2: That's a really good Yeah, that's a really good one.

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Speaker 2: It also makes me laugh when people do that at concerts,

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Speaker 2: where it's like, so you're gonna go home and you're

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Speaker 2: gonna basically watch video of a little white speck and

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Speaker 2: mostly in a mostly black field, and then other people

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Speaker 2: going who and then the guy next to you being like.

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Speaker 1: Hey, so how many brothers and sisters you have? Like

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Speaker 1: I get like a ten second video, you know, but

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Speaker 1: it's like, yeah, like and you want to send it

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Speaker 1: to your best friend Vicki, who couldn't come tonight because

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Speaker 1: she's in labor, but like Vicky doesn't need the whole concert.

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Speaker 2: At all now or want it, Like, you can't recreate

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Speaker 2: the in person experience.

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Speaker 1: One hundred percent. Yeah, So that would be my rule.

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Speaker 2: My thing is if you're going to rush the stage,

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Speaker 2: you have to do it standing up the whole time

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Speaker 2: so we know you're coming. You can't get so close

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Speaker 2: to the stage that it's almost like this weird. And

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Speaker 2: also the fucking roll onto the stadio, everything about that

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Speaker 2: was so wild.

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Speaker 1: She'd had a fusion blease. It also makes me think

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Speaker 1: that during our tour, now that's coming up, I want

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Speaker 1: to pick a pair of sisters for a hometown to

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Speaker 1: come up. Absolutely, they did a great job. We've had

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Speaker 1: other sisters before, mother daughter, whatever, Like we need like pairs, right, sure,

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Speaker 1: like people helping each other.

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Speaker 2: Yes, because I do think that sometimes people are like, oh,

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Speaker 2: I can absolutely do this because they've had a couple

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Speaker 2: shiblize and then when they're up there, it's a whole

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Speaker 2: different kind of experience.

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Speaker 1: Yes, so maybe like, yeah, two people who both know

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Speaker 1: the story.

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Speaker 2: Can tell it together right exactly, then it's like tag team. Yes,

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Speaker 2: But also just I'd love to take a moment to

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Speaker 2: pause if we're going to rewind, let's rewind to the

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Speaker 2: I think one of the best hometown deliveries ever sincerely

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Speaker 2: was that show in we were in Phoenix, Arizona. The

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Speaker 2: Theater in the round.

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Speaker 1: Yes, the theater that slowly spun around in like an arene.

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Speaker 1: It was like a It was like a cage match

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Speaker 1: with everyone around us, and we slowly spun around and

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Speaker 1: I got seasick. It was crazy.

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Speaker 2: If you go find a live show, we only did

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Speaker 2: one in Phoenix, so you'll be able to find it.

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Speaker 1: It's early.

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Speaker 2: That live show. The woman who came up and I

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Speaker 2: can't I'm sorry, I can't remember her name did a

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Speaker 2: fully formed and amazingly Dela Hometown like she was a

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Speaker 2: hired professional. It was hilarious.

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Speaker 1: So you know, I guess that it's like, be really good.

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Speaker 1: That would be one of my roles.

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Speaker 2: Let's be really good. If you're gonna get up here,

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Speaker 2: be really really good at it. All Right, now, let's

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Speaker 2: get into George's story about the Moore's murders.

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Speaker 1: Do you go first to do it? I think we

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Speaker 1: should start over because do you want to go first

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Speaker 1: or do you want me to go first?

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Speaker 2: Well?

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Speaker 1: I went first last time? Did you mm hm? Oh? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: The live show?

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Speaker 2: I mean, don't we have to follow just how we're

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Speaker 2: doing it as opposed to what airs?

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Speaker 1: I don't know. I think that's what we should do.

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Speaker 2: It's for us and nobody cares. Nobody cares, and I

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Speaker 2: don't think we care that much.

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Speaker 1: I don't care. Okay, great, No wait now you're mad. No,

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Speaker 1: I'm like, why do I care? Like? Why have I

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Speaker 1: been well? It used to matter? Did it well? When

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Speaker 1: we were like back to back? That's true? All right?

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Speaker 1: It felt like So. I just finished listening to this

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Speaker 1: book called The Devil All the Time by Donald rape Pollock,

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Speaker 1: which is a really fucking great book. A bunch of

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Speaker 1: different stories of other people and they're all, you know,

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Speaker 1: intertwined somehow, which I love. And this one had a

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Speaker 1: husband wife murder team, which I know we've talked about

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Speaker 1: and neither of us kind of are that interested in

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Speaker 1: it or like, that's not our first pick, and it's

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Speaker 1: it's so weird and creepy. So I'm doing one.

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Speaker 2: Okay, you're going outside your comforting Yeah of cold cases

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Speaker 2: and yeah, lesser known cases, that's your passion.

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Speaker 1: When this is the Moore's Murders. Okay. So nineteen sixty one,

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Speaker 1: eighteen year old typist Myra Hinley meets Ian Brady. Ian

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Speaker 1: was born in Glasgow and a slum on January second,

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Speaker 1: nineteen thirty eight to a single mother named Peggy, and

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Speaker 1: when he's four months old, she fucking advertises him for

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Speaker 1: adoption in a newsagent's shop window. Oh man, there's a

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Speaker 1: lot of words in here that I normally wouldn't use

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Speaker 1: in their English, like newsagents, news agents and shop window.

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Speaker 1: And I'm sure it's advertisement, not advertised. Peggy visits him

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Speaker 1: at his foster family regularly until he becomes a teenager,

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Speaker 1: without letting him know that that's his mom. What you know,

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Speaker 1: But I guess his foster family is good. Yeah, so,

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Speaker 1: but he still has extreme temper tantrums and they end

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Speaker 1: with him banging his head on the floor. And despite

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Speaker 1: being exceptionally bright, he did poorly in school, socially awkward,

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Speaker 1: considered a quote sissy at sports, and he's cruel to

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Speaker 1: animals pretty quickly, and it ranged from quote stoning dogs,

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Speaker 1: decapitating rabbits and I want to nope, I can't read that.

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Speaker 1: It's ababcat. He later tells Myra, his later girlfriend, that

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Speaker 1: he killed his first cat when he was ten years old.

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Speaker 2: That was a brag for him. That's like first date

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Speaker 2: chit chat for him.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it gets worse, Okay. At thirteen, Ian had his

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Speaker 1: first was charged with house breaking, House breaking, Da da da.

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Speaker 1: As a teenager, he develops he taught a whole house

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Speaker 1: how to go to the bath? Oh no, stupid. As

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Speaker 1: a teenager, he develops a fascination with the writings of

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Speaker 1: nietzschee and with Nazism red flag. Yeah. In nineteen fifty nine,

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Speaker 1: he learns bookkeeping in prison, and he gets a job

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Speaker 1: as a stock clerk, and he buys his own audio

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Speaker 1: recording equipment and he transfers Hitler's speeches onto vinyl records. Oh,

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Speaker 1: like as a pastime. Yeah, huh, yeah, sounds fun.

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Speaker 2: That's he sounds like a real a real hoot.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, go get her, okay. In nineteen sixty one, a

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Speaker 1: new secretary starts at his work named Myra Henley. On

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Speaker 1: their first date, Ian takes her to see a move

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Speaker 1: about the Nurnberg Trials. So that's their first day. Jesus

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Speaker 1: not a not Nietzsche And Nazism, Yeah, I mean yes, Nazism.

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Speaker 2: So guys like, would you like to go to the

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Speaker 2: movies with me? And you're like sure, that's cool. And

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Speaker 2: he's like kind of cute and has like fifties just

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Speaker 2: like the back hair.

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Speaker 1: He's older.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, he's like the cool guy at the office.

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Speaker 1: He's got strong opinions, right, he's not like the boys

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Speaker 1: at school who don't like Nazism.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, he's got his arm up in the air a lot,

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Speaker 2: just like what you're looking for. And then you meet

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Speaker 2: at the.

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Speaker 1: Movie theater and it's the fucking Nurnberg Trials. Yeah, super chill.

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Speaker 1: After they start dating, they read each other books about

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Speaker 1: Nazi atrocities. On their lunch break, he Hindley. She starts

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Speaker 1: to all to her appearance to replicate the Aryan ideal,

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Speaker 1: bleaching her hair blonde and wearing red lipstick, and so

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Speaker 1: Ian's really grooming her to become subservient. And they start

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Speaker 1: discussing committing crimes together, like robberies that would make them rich,

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Speaker 1: but ultimately they decide that murder was more of their style.

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Speaker 1: Nice fun. Ian outlines a plan where Myra would wear

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Speaker 1: a disguise, they'd abduct a child and take it to

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Speaker 1: the moors, where they would rape and murder and bury

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Speaker 1: it there. And in nineteen sixty three they took their

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Speaker 1: first victim.

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Speaker 2: Sorry, so in that discussion, what a risk, That's all

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Speaker 2: I'm saying, is you really? I guess the Nuremberg Trials

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Speaker 2: was really the test. Yeah, of like, is she gonna

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Speaker 2: go with this?

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Speaker 1: Yeah? If you cry when a bunch of Nazis are

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Speaker 1: being hung hanged? Probably both? Then you know that, right?

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Speaker 1: You know you found the one, You found the one.

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Speaker 2: Also, I have seen Mara Henley's mugshot. Yeah, as a

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Speaker 2: blonde with that lipstick on.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, how do you feel about it?

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Speaker 2: She was definitely a fall winter. Let's just say it

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Speaker 2: that way.

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Speaker 1: She was not a blonde.

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Speaker 2: No, it's not complimentary to her face.

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Speaker 1: I mean I have bleached blonde hair once and it

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Speaker 1: didn't look good and I knew it immediately. Yeah, And

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Speaker 1: I wouldn't have done it for a guy. What did

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Speaker 1: you do? I wouldn't have killed anyone.

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Speaker 2: Children and children, children and the more so.

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Speaker 1: Okay, In nineteen sixty three, in July, for the first victim,

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Speaker 1: Ian tells Meyer to drive her van around the area

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Speaker 1: local area while he follows behind in his motorcycle, and

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Speaker 1: when he sees a victim that he wants, he wants,

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Speaker 1: he's going to flash his headlights at her, signaling her

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Speaker 1: to stop over and offer that person a ride. So

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Speaker 1: they see a young girl walking towards them, and Ian

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Speaker 1: signals her to stop. She doesn't do until they pass her,

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Speaker 1: and Brady's like, what the fuck and She's like, I

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Speaker 1: know that girl, I don't want to take her. So instead,

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Speaker 1: at eight pm, Ian spots sixteen year old Pauline Read

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Speaker 1: on her way to a dance. And Pauline is a

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Speaker 1: neighbor of Lee's who's a friend of her younger sister Maureen.

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Speaker 1: So uh, she was okay with getting into the van

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00:20:07,160 --> 00:20:10,040
Speaker 1: with Hinley, who then asked if she would mind helping

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00:20:10,080 --> 00:20:12,520
Speaker 1: to search for an expensive glove she had lost on

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00:20:12,680 --> 00:20:16,520
Speaker 1: saddle More Saddleworth Moore, on a tract of open Oh

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Speaker 1: wait on Saddleworth Moore. And then I was like, you

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Speaker 1: know what, I didn't know what a Moore was aside

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00:20:21,880 --> 00:20:24,320
Speaker 1: from photos nice, so I thought I'd explain to people

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Speaker 1: what it was. It's basically just an open, big, open,

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Speaker 1: uncultivated field like picture where you know British people would

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Speaker 1: go shooting and bury bodies. Yes, it's like a rocky, hilly,

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00:20:35,800 --> 00:20:41,720
Speaker 1: open grass landy situation for miles and miles, miles and miles. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: so she wanted her to come find her glove with her,

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Speaker 1: and Pauline says she's in no hurry and agrees when

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Speaker 1: they get to the More. Brady arrived shortly afterwards on

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Speaker 1: her motorcycle, and Hinley introduces him to Rid as her

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Speaker 1: boyfriend and that he'd also come to find the glove

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Speaker 1: and uh and Henley claims that Brady took Reed into

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Speaker 1: the More. Well, Henley just hung out in the van.

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Speaker 1: After about thirty minutes, Brady comes back alone and takes

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Speaker 1: her back to the spot where Reid lay dying. Her

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00:21:11,600 --> 00:21:14,160
Speaker 1: throat had been cut with a large knife and the

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Speaker 1: collar of her coat had been pushed into the wound,

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Speaker 1: which sounds so horrific. He tells Henley to stay with

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Speaker 1: Red while he goes and gets a spade that he

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Speaker 1: had hidden nearby on a previous visit to bury the body.

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Speaker 1: So Hinley notices that Pauline's coat is undone and her

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Speaker 1: clothes were in disarray, guessing that she had been sexually assaulted.

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Speaker 1: I mean, she claimed she wasn't there witnessing it, but

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Speaker 1: let's yeah, fucking come on now, right and but Henley

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Speaker 1: later claims that she assisted him with the sexual assault.

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Speaker 1: As she turned on that story, he says it's incorrect.

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Speaker 1: Oh oh am, I getting there, managerong, sorry, that would

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Speaker 1: be in character, got.

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Speaker 2: It I see now, So basically she says I wasn't there,

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Speaker 2: and later on he's like, oh no, she was there

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Speaker 2: and help me out.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, got it okay, Okay. Then on then the early

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Speaker 1: evening November twenty third, nineteen sixty three, she approaches Sorry

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Speaker 1: Myra approaches a twelve year old boy named John Kilbride

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Speaker 1: and a market in Lancashire and offers him a lift

438
00:22:24,000 --> 00:22:26,000
Speaker 1: home on the pretext that his parents would be worried

439
00:22:26,000 --> 00:22:28,640
Speaker 1: about him for being out so late, and offers him

440
00:22:28,720 --> 00:22:31,480
Speaker 1: also a bottle of sherry and he is twelve years old,

441
00:22:31,600 --> 00:22:34,879
Speaker 1: is like hell yeah. But then they're like, well we

442
00:22:34,960 --> 00:22:38,080
Speaker 1: have to go make a detour to collect it, and

443
00:22:38,119 --> 00:22:40,960
Speaker 1: that also we need help finding a glove and a more.

444
00:22:41,480 --> 00:22:43,280
Speaker 1: So he's like okay. And then when they get to

445
00:22:43,320 --> 00:22:47,520
Speaker 1: the moor, Brady takes the child and again Hindley says

446
00:22:47,520 --> 00:22:51,520
Speaker 1: she waits in the car while Brady sexually assaults Kilbride

447
00:22:51,840 --> 00:22:54,240
Speaker 1: and attempts to slit his throat with a six inch

448
00:22:54,280 --> 00:22:58,040
Speaker 1: strated blade before batally strangling him with a piece of string.

449
00:22:58,800 --> 00:23:03,280
Speaker 1: So this guy's just a fuck animal, animal, monster, psychopath. Okay.

450
00:23:04,960 --> 00:23:08,879
Speaker 1: Then in the early evening of June sixteenth, nineteen sixty four,

451
00:23:09,560 --> 00:23:13,679
Speaker 1: so this all happens within a couple of years. Two years. Then,

452
00:23:13,720 --> 00:23:16,800
Speaker 1: in the early evening of June nineteen sixty four, twelve

453
00:23:16,880 --> 00:23:18,760
Speaker 1: year old Keith Bennett is on his way to his

454
00:23:18,760 --> 00:23:24,360
Speaker 1: grandma's house in Manchester when Hinley lures him into her

455
00:23:24,680 --> 00:23:27,720
Speaker 1: mini pickup, which Brady was sitting in the back of,

456
00:23:28,160 --> 00:23:31,480
Speaker 1: asking if he'd help load some boxes, and then she

457
00:23:31,520 --> 00:23:34,199
Speaker 1: said she'd drive him home afterwards. So she goes to

458
00:23:34,240 --> 00:23:38,080
Speaker 1: the More again and again those boxes out on the moor.

459
00:23:38,359 --> 00:23:41,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, and you know I have to move from the More, Hey,

460
00:23:41,359 --> 00:23:43,720
Speaker 2: little twelve year old kid, I need help carrying some

461
00:23:43,760 --> 00:23:46,119
Speaker 2: heavy shit and ding ding the ultimate red flag.

462
00:23:46,320 --> 00:23:49,720
Speaker 1: If she don't ask, adults will not ask you for help,

463
00:23:49,760 --> 00:23:50,600
Speaker 1: That's right, children.

464
00:23:50,760 --> 00:23:54,159
Speaker 2: Yes, Also, don't walk around your goddamn town by yourself

465
00:23:54,160 --> 00:23:56,560
Speaker 2: all the time. I mean, not that death ever ever

466
00:23:56,680 --> 00:23:58,200
Speaker 2: happens anymore, No never.

467
00:24:00,000 --> 00:24:04,359
Speaker 1: Thirty minutes later, Brady comes back alone and when Hindley

468
00:24:04,400 --> 00:24:07,520
Speaker 1: supposedly asked how he had killed Bennett, he says that

469
00:24:07,560 --> 00:24:09,879
Speaker 1: he had sexually assaulted him and strangled him again with

470
00:24:09,920 --> 00:24:12,159
Speaker 1: a piece of string, and they buried him out on

471
00:24:12,240 --> 00:24:15,840
Speaker 1: the moor on December twenty sixth, nineteen sixty four, Brady

472
00:24:15,880 --> 00:24:18,719
Speaker 1: and Henley visit a fair ground in search of another victim,

473
00:24:19,040 --> 00:24:22,040
Speaker 1: and they noticed ten year old Leslie Ann Downey standing

474
00:24:22,080 --> 00:24:24,960
Speaker 1: beside one of the rides. When it becomes parent that

475
00:24:25,000 --> 00:24:29,680
Speaker 1: she's alone, they approach her and deliberately drop something from

476
00:24:29,720 --> 00:24:32,600
Speaker 1: their shopping car close by her and ask her for

477
00:24:32,680 --> 00:24:36,000
Speaker 1: help carrying the packages to the car. What is sweet angel?

478
00:24:36,080 --> 00:24:38,600
Speaker 1: She's ten, And she's like, yes, I'll help you. She's

479
00:24:38,680 --> 00:24:41,480
Speaker 1: at the carnival alone. Yes, I'm at a carnival alone,

480
00:24:41,600 --> 00:24:44,399
Speaker 1: and I'll help. These two adults and they're like, this

481
00:24:44,480 --> 00:24:46,119
Speaker 1: is why it's so creepy, is it's a man and

482
00:24:46,160 --> 00:24:48,199
Speaker 1: a woman. And in your mind you're never you know,

483
00:24:48,240 --> 00:24:50,800
Speaker 1: like if you're hitchhiking and a couple stopped for you,

484
00:24:50,800 --> 00:24:53,280
Speaker 1: a man and a woman, yeah you feel safe. Yes,

485
00:24:53,400 --> 00:24:53,920
Speaker 1: that's right.

486
00:24:54,080 --> 00:24:55,840
Speaker 2: It's the old trick of having a woman there.

487
00:24:55,960 --> 00:24:56,720
Speaker 1: It's so creepy.

488
00:24:56,760 --> 00:25:00,560
Speaker 2: It's the worst, and also with little kids, so unfair.

489
00:25:00,600 --> 00:25:04,240
Speaker 2: It's just like it goes against everything your instincts would

490
00:25:04,240 --> 00:25:04,480
Speaker 2: tell you.

491
00:25:04,520 --> 00:25:07,200
Speaker 1: It's a huge trick. Do you think that women it's

492
00:25:07,240 --> 00:25:10,800
Speaker 1: more horrifying for women to kill children than for men

493
00:25:11,000 --> 00:25:12,240
Speaker 1: like it's I feel like, is it?

494
00:25:13,040 --> 00:25:15,760
Speaker 2: I feel equally horrified at every story that I hear

495
00:25:16,240 --> 00:25:18,560
Speaker 2: of people that think it's okay to kill children or

496
00:25:18,840 --> 00:25:23,359
Speaker 2: it like that need the like a compulsion to kill children.

497
00:25:23,400 --> 00:25:25,240
Speaker 1: There's something so wrong with you. I feel like what

498
00:25:25,280 --> 00:25:29,320
Speaker 1: horrifies me more than the compulsion is the like is

499
00:25:29,320 --> 00:25:31,480
Speaker 1: being okay with it. It's not even like like she

500
00:25:32,160 --> 00:25:34,119
Speaker 1: might not have had a compulsion to kill children, but

501
00:25:34,160 --> 00:25:36,000
Speaker 1: she went along with it anyways. Yeah, so that to

502
00:25:36,040 --> 00:25:39,720
Speaker 1: me is even more depraved because it's not even this

503
00:25:39,960 --> 00:25:41,400
Speaker 1: like addiction that you have.

504
00:25:41,680 --> 00:25:44,520
Speaker 2: She was doing it for her fucking boyfriend totally, which

505
00:25:44,560 --> 00:25:46,719
Speaker 2: is the I mean, you've known people are like now

506
00:25:46,760 --> 00:25:49,080
Speaker 2: I'm into swing dancing, and you're like, that's so lame,

507
00:25:49,119 --> 00:25:51,960
Speaker 2: but you never say anything, right, this is like she'll

508
00:25:52,000 --> 00:25:54,240
Speaker 2: get over it, just yeah, exactly, just like we'll wait

509
00:25:54,280 --> 00:25:56,280
Speaker 2: for this one to wind out and you'll hate him

510
00:25:56,320 --> 00:25:58,320
Speaker 2: in eight months or whatever. But now this is like,

511
00:25:59,040 --> 00:26:00,240
Speaker 2: it's very extreme.

512
00:26:00,640 --> 00:26:03,760
Speaker 1: I bought a Espa for a boy. When I listen,

513
00:26:03,760 --> 00:26:06,120
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna lie. I mean I thought it looked

514
00:26:06,160 --> 00:26:07,960
Speaker 1: cute and I liked it, but I got it so

515
00:26:08,040 --> 00:26:11,159
Speaker 1: that he would think I was cool. Yeah, yeah, and

516
00:26:11,240 --> 00:26:14,840
Speaker 1: I hated it. I uh, what you do?

517
00:26:15,160 --> 00:26:18,520
Speaker 2: Proudly, I can say that the first bad experience that

518
00:26:18,560 --> 00:26:20,840
Speaker 2: I had with a guy that was like that was

519
00:26:20,840 --> 00:26:23,520
Speaker 2: someone who was secretly born again Christian. And then after

520
00:26:23,560 --> 00:26:26,919
Speaker 2: we got together, like unveiled that. Really he just wanted

521
00:26:26,920 --> 00:26:29,600
Speaker 2: me to say the seven magic words that would enable

522
00:26:29,680 --> 00:26:31,000
Speaker 2: me to go to heaven when I died.

523
00:26:31,119 --> 00:26:32,320
Speaker 1: What are those magic words?

524
00:26:32,440 --> 00:26:35,240
Speaker 2: I accept Jesus Christ as my personal savior. You just said,

525
00:26:35,280 --> 00:26:38,520
Speaker 2: I'm oh, well, yeah, I'm in. I was already in. Yeah,

526
00:26:38,840 --> 00:26:40,240
Speaker 2: you know with the Catholic upbringing, was.

527
00:26:40,240 --> 00:26:43,200
Speaker 1: There like red flat, like like was there looking back

528
00:26:43,200 --> 00:26:45,439
Speaker 1: when you were dating? Like obvious things? Well, it was

529
00:26:45,600 --> 00:26:46,119
Speaker 1: very short.

530
00:26:46,160 --> 00:26:48,960
Speaker 2: So we were friends first, everybody that I was we

531
00:26:49,000 --> 00:26:50,679
Speaker 2: had like the small group of friends, and all the

532
00:26:50,680 --> 00:26:51,600
Speaker 2: girls were in love with him.

533
00:26:51,600 --> 00:26:53,400
Speaker 1: And then it was like he picked me, Oh my god,

534
00:26:53,400 --> 00:26:55,280
Speaker 1: and you're like, I'm so special exactly.

535
00:26:55,480 --> 00:26:57,720
Speaker 2: And then like a week later he was like, I

536
00:26:57,880 --> 00:26:59,919
Speaker 2: just need you to say these words and then come

537
00:27:00,080 --> 00:27:02,520
Speaker 2: to my church with me, and then I don't really

538
00:27:02,560 --> 00:27:03,679
Speaker 2: want to date you, but I need.

539
00:27:03,560 --> 00:27:05,120
Speaker 1: You go to this church to get a gold star.

540
00:27:05,520 --> 00:27:08,080
Speaker 2: It was yeah, seriously, it's like, did you get some

541
00:27:08,200 --> 00:27:09,640
Speaker 2: kind of kickback for bringing media.

542
00:27:09,680 --> 00:27:11,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, did you collect?

543
00:27:11,720 --> 00:27:14,120
Speaker 2: And that's when I was like, oh, this is this

544
00:27:14,200 --> 00:27:17,320
Speaker 2: is like pathetically not anything I thought it was.

545
00:27:17,520 --> 00:27:19,160
Speaker 1: But if you were like this fucking idiot, you would

546
00:27:19,160 --> 00:27:20,720
Speaker 1: have been a Christian exactly.

547
00:27:21,000 --> 00:27:24,399
Speaker 2: So. But I feel like I learned early the worst

548
00:27:24,800 --> 00:27:28,680
Speaker 2: kind of most painful way of like, oh, the ulterior

549
00:27:28,760 --> 00:27:31,840
Speaker 2: motive thing, like the second comes out where it's even now,

550
00:27:32,080 --> 00:27:36,000
Speaker 2: even if it's like, do you like Star Wars, I'm like, goodbye.

551
00:27:35,520 --> 00:27:39,879
Speaker 1: Fucking tricked me? How dare you? Oh my god, you

552
00:27:40,040 --> 00:27:43,000
Speaker 1: try to keep better? You got it? Like it all

553
00:27:43,040 --> 00:27:45,200
Speaker 1: has to come out immediately or else you don't trust them.

554
00:27:45,080 --> 00:27:48,440
Speaker 2: That's right, or I just don't trust them anyway. Anyhow,

555
00:27:48,560 --> 00:27:50,080
Speaker 2: We'll talk about how I'm alone later.

556
00:27:51,600 --> 00:27:54,440
Speaker 1: Listen. I have all the trust issues in the world.

557
00:27:55,000 --> 00:27:59,200
Speaker 1: Don't even any who blah blah blah blah blah blah

558
00:27:59,240 --> 00:28:04,920
Speaker 1: blah blah carry some packages. Then they needed to help

559
00:28:05,080 --> 00:28:07,760
Speaker 1: carrying them into her house, into their house. So once

560
00:28:07,800 --> 00:28:12,639
Speaker 1: inside the house, this sweet little girl is undressed, This

561
00:28:12,760 --> 00:28:15,600
Speaker 1: is fucked up, undressed, gagged and forced to pose for

562
00:28:15,760 --> 00:28:21,639
Speaker 1: photos before being raped and killed. And Brady again states

563
00:28:21,640 --> 00:28:26,520
Speaker 1: that it was Henley who killed Leslianne Downey and I'm sorry.

564
00:28:26,520 --> 00:28:30,840
Speaker 1: Ian states that it's actually the Myra who killed Leslianne Downey,

565
00:28:30,840 --> 00:28:32,399
Speaker 1: but of course she says it wasn't that she was

566
00:28:32,480 --> 00:28:34,480
Speaker 1: running a bath for her and come back, came back

567
00:28:34,480 --> 00:28:36,560
Speaker 1: and she was dead, which is like, fuck you.

568
00:28:36,560 --> 00:28:39,360
Speaker 2: You know, here's the thing, whatever the truth really is,

569
00:28:39,680 --> 00:28:42,400
Speaker 2: it doesn't matter because at this point you could have

570
00:28:42,480 --> 00:28:45,120
Speaker 2: been sitting at home waiting for him to come back

571
00:28:45,120 --> 00:28:48,680
Speaker 2: from the moors. You were complicit, which means you might

572
00:28:48,720 --> 00:28:50,680
Speaker 2: as well have been standing next to him in my opinion.

573
00:28:50,760 --> 00:28:53,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's I mean, yeah, I agree.

574
00:28:54,200 --> 00:28:56,880
Speaker 2: I now want to think the worst of you if

575
00:28:56,920 --> 00:28:57,760
Speaker 2: you are involved in.

576
00:28:57,720 --> 00:28:59,720
Speaker 1: This at all. Yeah, it's not like it gets you

577
00:28:59,720 --> 00:29:04,560
Speaker 1: off the hook somehow. Right. The next morning they take

578
00:29:04,600 --> 00:29:09,000
Speaker 1: her body to saddle Worth Moore and is buried in

579
00:29:09,000 --> 00:29:12,800
Speaker 1: a shallow grave. Okay, so towards the end. We're getting

580
00:29:12,840 --> 00:29:15,320
Speaker 1: towards the end. On the evening of October sixth, nineteen

581
00:29:15,360 --> 00:29:18,360
Speaker 1: sixty five, they go to the Manchester Central Railway station

582
00:29:19,120 --> 00:29:23,920
Speaker 1: and Ian picks up a guy, a seventeen year old

583
00:29:23,920 --> 00:29:28,200
Speaker 1: guy named Edward Evans, and he introduces Mayra as his sister.

584
00:29:28,600 --> 00:29:31,360
Speaker 1: They drive back home they're drinking a bottle of wine

585
00:29:31,360 --> 00:29:35,560
Speaker 1: together and Ian sends Meyra to fetch her brother in law.

586
00:29:35,760 --> 00:29:39,120
Speaker 1: Fetch her brother in law. When they get back to

587
00:29:39,160 --> 00:29:44,560
Speaker 1: the house, Mayra tells her brother in law that, uh,

588
00:29:44,760 --> 00:29:48,560
Speaker 1: to wait outside. It's really weird. So basically, the brother

589
00:29:48,640 --> 00:29:53,600
Speaker 1: in law, who is Mayra's sister's husband, is kind of

590
00:29:53,600 --> 00:29:57,480
Speaker 1: a small time crook and the whole year Ian has

591
00:29:57,560 --> 00:30:00,600
Speaker 1: kind of been cultivating this friendship and like grooming him

592
00:30:00,800 --> 00:30:03,880
Speaker 1: to help him with his crimes. And it's said that

593
00:30:04,560 --> 00:30:09,920
Speaker 1: David Smith is in awe of Ian, and basically they

594
00:30:10,120 --> 00:30:14,000
Speaker 1: kill this guy Ian Evans and try to get David

595
00:30:14,040 --> 00:30:16,720
Speaker 1: Smith to go along with it, although he doesn't. He

596
00:30:16,720 --> 00:30:19,120
Speaker 1: says he'll come back the next day to help bury.

597
00:30:18,840 --> 00:30:22,840
Speaker 2: The body, and so sorry, he doesn't want to be

598
00:30:23,000 --> 00:30:25,960
Speaker 2: there for the murder. He's all good with the burial though.

599
00:30:26,000 --> 00:30:27,600
Speaker 1: Well, here's the thing, so he says he was in

600
00:30:27,640 --> 00:30:30,320
Speaker 1: the kitchen and didn't know what happened. But what comes

601
00:30:30,320 --> 00:30:34,880
Speaker 1: out of this either way is that when David Smith

602
00:30:34,960 --> 00:30:37,640
Speaker 1: gets home to my riss sister, he tells her what

603
00:30:37,720 --> 00:30:41,000
Speaker 1: happens and they're both like, let's go call the fucking cops.

604
00:30:41,040 --> 00:30:43,480
Speaker 1: Oh good, Yeah, like, can you imagine calling cops on

605
00:30:43,520 --> 00:30:44,160
Speaker 1: your sister like that?

606
00:30:45,320 --> 00:30:50,480
Speaker 2: But also, was she always like this beast sister? I'm sure, right, yeah,

607
00:30:50,920 --> 00:30:53,720
Speaker 2: because yeah, she must have been a sociopath to me,

608
00:30:53,960 --> 00:30:56,560
Speaker 2: just serial killing children.

609
00:30:56,560 --> 00:31:00,680
Speaker 1: And she probably she probably suspects something this happened between them.

610
00:31:00,720 --> 00:31:04,720
Speaker 1: They're being weird and secretive, they're creepy Nazis. Nazis a

611
00:31:04,800 --> 00:31:08,840
Speaker 1: Nazi behavior. Yeah, it's never a good never a good sign. Never.

612
00:31:09,440 --> 00:31:14,280
Speaker 1: So they call the police from a nearby phone box. Uh,

613
00:31:15,720 --> 00:31:17,520
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna change him. I'm just gonna keep saying that.

614
00:31:17,600 --> 00:31:20,120
Speaker 1: But they bring a screwdriver and a knife just in

615
00:31:20,120 --> 00:31:23,600
Speaker 1: case Brady shows up. Oh fuck you imagine the phone box, Yeah,

616
00:31:23,720 --> 00:31:26,200
Speaker 1: to the phone box, creating that scared that, like the

617
00:31:26,200 --> 00:31:30,360
Speaker 1: Boogeyman's just going to be like, hey, yes, yes, I

618
00:31:30,400 --> 00:31:35,400
Speaker 1: mean once you realize that that's what's happening, Oh totally so.

619
00:31:35,760 --> 00:31:37,400
Speaker 1: But they don't even know that he's like they thought

620
00:31:37,400 --> 00:31:39,040
Speaker 1: maybe he just killed the stude that they were trying

621
00:31:39,080 --> 00:31:40,520
Speaker 1: to fuck. Like, they don't even know that he's a

622
00:31:40,640 --> 00:31:44,680
Speaker 1: child killer. Yeah, Jesus Christ. Then so on the morning

623
00:31:44,880 --> 00:31:48,600
Speaker 1: the next morning, Superintendent Bob Talbot of the Cheshire Police

624
00:31:48,840 --> 00:31:51,280
Speaker 1: arrive at the back door. He's wearing a bar of

625
00:31:51,320 --> 00:31:54,280
Speaker 1: Baker's overalls to cover his uniform, so she'll open the

626
00:31:54,280 --> 00:31:57,440
Speaker 1: door nice and he says he's a police officer. Comes

627
00:31:57,480 --> 00:32:00,280
Speaker 1: in and that Ian is hanging out in the living room.

628
00:32:00,760 --> 00:32:03,880
Speaker 1: He says he's investigating an act of violence involving guns,

629
00:32:04,200 --> 00:32:08,640
Speaker 1: and let's see. Looks around the house. There's a room

630
00:32:08,760 --> 00:32:12,240
Speaker 1: that's locked. He goes into the room and when they

631
00:32:12,240 --> 00:32:14,600
Speaker 1: come back, they say that they discovered a trust up

632
00:32:14,600 --> 00:32:17,400
Speaker 1: body and that he was being arrested on suspicion of murder,

633
00:32:18,120 --> 00:32:22,040
Speaker 1: and he's claiming it with self defense. They had gotten

634
00:32:22,040 --> 00:32:22,440
Speaker 1: in a fight.

635
00:32:23,200 --> 00:32:25,160
Speaker 2: Sorry, the trust up body is the seventeen year old.

636
00:32:25,320 --> 00:32:27,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, and he's saying, we got in a fight and

637
00:32:27,360 --> 00:32:29,240
Speaker 1: got out of hand, so we had to keep the

638
00:32:29,280 --> 00:32:30,960
Speaker 1: body in a room, right, and we were going to

639
00:32:31,000 --> 00:32:31,400
Speaker 1: bury it.

640
00:32:31,880 --> 00:32:34,040
Speaker 2: Jesus, Yeah, I thought you were going to say they

641
00:32:34,040 --> 00:32:35,880
Speaker 2: found a room full of gloves.

642
00:32:36,200 --> 00:32:39,280
Speaker 1: Right, hidden gloves that they had found just stacked to

643
00:32:39,360 --> 00:32:43,280
Speaker 1: the ceiling. Oh. No. So Myra's not arrested with Ian,

644
00:32:43,560 --> 00:32:46,760
Speaker 1: but she's questioned and she refuses to make any statement.

645
00:32:46,800 --> 00:32:48,960
Speaker 1: She says it was an accident. They didn't have any

646
00:32:48,960 --> 00:32:52,000
Speaker 1: evidence that she's involved, so she goes home and then

647
00:32:52,920 --> 00:32:54,400
Speaker 1: Ian's charged with an accessory.

648
00:32:54,680 --> 00:32:54,840
Speaker 2: No.

649
00:32:54,680 --> 00:32:57,480
Speaker 1: No, the October eleventh, Myra's charged with an accessory to

650
00:32:57,520 --> 00:33:01,760
Speaker 1: the murder of the seventeen year old Ian Words, and

651
00:33:01,800 --> 00:33:05,080
Speaker 1: then they request a search of all Manchester's left luggage

652
00:33:05,120 --> 00:33:08,400
Speaker 1: offices for any suitcases that belonged to Anne Brady, and

653
00:33:08,440 --> 00:33:12,000
Speaker 1: on October fifteenth, they find a suitcase that belongs to him,

654
00:33:12,000 --> 00:33:15,920
Speaker 1: and inside were nine pornographic photos taken of a young

655
00:33:16,000 --> 00:33:19,760
Speaker 1: girl naked and was scarf tied around her mouth, and

656
00:33:19,800 --> 00:33:22,479
Speaker 1: a thirteen minute tape recording of her screaming and pleading

657
00:33:22,480 --> 00:33:25,960
Speaker 1: for help. Oh and Anne Downey Leslie and Downey's mom

658
00:33:26,040 --> 00:33:28,760
Speaker 1: listens to the fucking tape? Can you fucking imagine that's

659
00:33:28,840 --> 00:33:32,720
Speaker 1: John Walsh? Actually right, that's fucked up. What did he do?

660
00:33:32,840 --> 00:33:34,560
Speaker 1: He looked at photos of bodies?

661
00:33:34,680 --> 00:33:36,640
Speaker 2: No, he listened to an audio tape of a little

662
00:33:36,680 --> 00:33:40,120
Speaker 2: kid getting murdered to find out if it was Adam

663
00:33:40,680 --> 00:33:42,200
Speaker 2: Adam right, his son was Adam.

664
00:33:43,440 --> 00:33:47,560
Speaker 1: It wasn't. So he just, yeah, that's the worst thing

665
00:33:47,600 --> 00:33:51,200
Speaker 1: of all time. I'm just nauseous thinking about that. That's horrible.

666
00:33:52,080 --> 00:33:54,800
Speaker 1: So she says it's definitely her ten year old daughter.

667
00:33:55,440 --> 00:33:59,440
Speaker 1: And then the police are searching their house and find

668
00:33:59,720 --> 00:34:03,800
Speaker 1: an old school book that has John Kilbride's name in it,

669
00:34:03,840 --> 00:34:05,840
Speaker 1: the twelve year old who went missing. They also find

670
00:34:05,880 --> 00:34:09,200
Speaker 1: a large collection of photos in the house which seemed

671
00:34:09,200 --> 00:34:12,520
Speaker 1: to be taken on Saddleworth More, so they fucking go

672
00:34:12,600 --> 00:34:16,880
Speaker 1: there and start searching them more and on October sixteenth

673
00:34:16,880 --> 00:34:20,080
Speaker 1: police find an armbone sticking out of the peat that

674
00:34:20,160 --> 00:34:22,520
Speaker 1: the body that was the body of Leslie and Downey.

675
00:34:22,600 --> 00:34:24,720
Speaker 1: Oh you mean no, I'm not gon armbone seking Oopy,

676
00:34:25,120 --> 00:34:28,080
Speaker 1: it's you're just it's just a big wide open field

677
00:34:28,920 --> 00:34:34,000
Speaker 1: of gray, low grass and brambles, I think, right, and

678
00:34:34,040 --> 00:34:37,080
Speaker 1: then you're just trying to walk it and then there's

679
00:34:37,160 --> 00:34:43,040
Speaker 1: just an arm and then armbone. Ooh. Another site on

680
00:34:43,080 --> 00:34:45,440
Speaker 1: the opposite side they found the badly decomposed body of

681
00:34:45,520 --> 00:34:48,160
Speaker 1: John Kilbride, and then the search is called off in

682
00:34:48,200 --> 00:34:51,279
Speaker 1: November because of the weather. So Brady's charged with the

683
00:34:51,360 --> 00:34:54,400
Speaker 1: murder of Evan Edwards, seventeen year old John Kilbride and

684
00:34:54,480 --> 00:34:58,000
Speaker 1: Leslie and Downey and Myra Henley with the murder of

685
00:34:58,040 --> 00:35:01,120
Speaker 1: Evan Edwards and Leslie and Downey. They plead not guilty

686
00:35:01,400 --> 00:35:05,360
Speaker 1: to the charges. Then, on May sixth, deliberating for two hours,

687
00:35:05,360 --> 00:35:07,440
Speaker 1: the jury finds Brady guilty of all three murders and

688
00:35:07,520 --> 00:35:10,440
Speaker 1: Henley guilty of the murders of the two people. The

689
00:35:10,920 --> 00:35:14,359
Speaker 1: Brady sentenced to three life sentences and Henley was given two.

690
00:35:15,480 --> 00:35:18,480
Speaker 1: On February second, nineteen eighty seven, Mayra made a formal

691
00:35:18,520 --> 00:35:22,040
Speaker 1: confession to the police, admitting her involvement in all five murders. Wow.

692
00:35:22,239 --> 00:35:27,120
Speaker 1: On July first, nineteen eighty seven, Reid's body is discovered

693
00:35:27,120 --> 00:35:30,120
Speaker 1: only one hundred yards from the place where Leslian Downey

694
00:35:30,200 --> 00:35:34,360
Speaker 1: had been found. Keith Bennett's body has still never been found,

695
00:35:34,600 --> 00:35:38,880
Speaker 1: and his family continues to search the more. On November fifteen,

696
00:35:38,920 --> 00:35:41,600
Speaker 1: two thousand and two, at age sixty, Mayra died from

697
00:35:42,400 --> 00:35:48,719
Speaker 1: bron bronchio pneumonia caused by heart disease. And he's still

698
00:35:48,760 --> 00:35:53,399
Speaker 1: not a fucking alive. Whoa really almost positive? Wow?

699
00:35:53,480 --> 00:35:58,360
Speaker 2: Oh sorry, that's crazy. You know, people have been asking

700
00:35:58,440 --> 00:35:59,839
Speaker 2: us to do these guys for a while.

701
00:36:00,080 --> 00:36:02,160
Speaker 1: Oh and I wouldn't have if I hadn't listened to

702
00:36:02,160 --> 00:36:06,359
Speaker 1: this book, just because you know, Yeah, but I did it.

703
00:36:06,360 --> 00:36:07,160
Speaker 1: It's so good.

704
00:36:07,880 --> 00:36:12,640
Speaker 2: I mean, they're yeah, they're there's like one of the

705
00:36:12,680 --> 00:36:15,000
Speaker 2: earliest team creeps.

706
00:36:15,280 --> 00:36:17,759
Speaker 1: I feel like back then it's so, you know, you

707
00:36:17,880 --> 00:36:20,560
Speaker 1: have this small town and children and people are going missing,

708
00:36:20,640 --> 00:36:22,480
Speaker 1: and you just don't put it together because that didn't

709
00:36:22,520 --> 00:36:25,279
Speaker 1: happen back then, Whereas now it's like, he wouldn't be

710
00:36:25,400 --> 00:36:29,040
Speaker 1: like a twelve year old's gone, they're a runaway, because

711
00:36:29,080 --> 00:36:32,760
Speaker 1: that just was unthinkable. And I think when you switch

712
00:36:32,800 --> 00:36:35,319
Speaker 1: between boys and girls, it's also like kind of a

713
00:36:35,600 --> 00:36:36,760
Speaker 1: way to throw off police.

714
00:36:37,000 --> 00:36:39,719
Speaker 2: Yes, at ages, it was like a twelve year old boy,

715
00:36:40,680 --> 00:36:43,319
Speaker 2: you know, sixteen year old girl. Like it was kind

716
00:36:43,320 --> 00:36:45,839
Speaker 2: of all over the map in terms of probably how

717
00:36:45,880 --> 00:36:49,719
Speaker 2: they were thinking totally. And also just the fact that

718
00:36:49,800 --> 00:36:54,400
Speaker 2: she that one girl was her little sister's friend is

719
00:36:54,440 --> 00:36:55,520
Speaker 2: so fucking evil.

720
00:36:56,320 --> 00:37:02,359
Speaker 1: It's crazy. It like, yeah, the trust aspect, and.

721
00:37:02,320 --> 00:37:05,959
Speaker 2: Then also the other way of Mara, you're so into

722
00:37:06,000 --> 00:37:09,919
Speaker 2: your boyfriend that you're you are now like his right

723
00:37:09,960 --> 00:37:10,560
Speaker 2: hand man.

724
00:37:10,600 --> 00:37:14,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, which she argues is like, no, he had brainwashed

725
00:37:14,360 --> 00:37:17,680
Speaker 1: me and I was under his command and all this shit,

726
00:37:17,719 --> 00:37:22,400
Speaker 1: and he groomed me to be his, which is like, maybe, yeah,

727
00:37:22,400 --> 00:37:26,000
Speaker 1: but only to an extent. I mean, yeah, that could

728
00:37:26,000 --> 00:37:28,280
Speaker 1: be true, but I don't think that that's an excuse

729
00:37:28,320 --> 00:37:28,919
Speaker 1: for what you did.

730
00:37:29,360 --> 00:37:31,719
Speaker 2: It's you know, here's the thing. Whether it's true or not,

731
00:37:31,800 --> 00:37:34,000
Speaker 2: you still did it totally. That's the problem.

732
00:37:34,080 --> 00:37:35,680
Speaker 1: I mean, at any point you could have run away

733
00:37:35,719 --> 00:37:36,960
Speaker 1: and called the police. Yeah.

734
00:37:37,000 --> 00:37:40,120
Speaker 2: Because did she aside from brainwashing, did she claim he

735
00:37:40,160 --> 00:37:42,040
Speaker 2: was abusive or anything. It sounds like they were like,

736
00:37:42,160 --> 00:37:44,680
Speaker 2: we're stoked Nazis were.

737
00:37:45,480 --> 00:37:48,719
Speaker 1: Of that of being abusive. And I bet that if

738
00:37:48,760 --> 00:37:50,279
Speaker 1: she hadn't died, she would have been let out of

739
00:37:50,320 --> 00:37:53,120
Speaker 1: person at some point. Yeah, because she was so old. Yeah,

740
00:37:53,640 --> 00:37:58,440
Speaker 1: because yeah, because yeah, well she would have That's like the.

741
00:38:00,160 --> 00:38:03,160
Speaker 2: Paul Bernardo and Carla Hamlta. She got out of prison.

742
00:38:03,320 --> 00:38:04,600
Speaker 2: She's out of prison now.

743
00:38:04,880 --> 00:38:06,040
Speaker 1: I bet she would have gotten out.

744
00:38:06,520 --> 00:38:09,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, I bet she would have. So creepy, crapy, so crazy.

745
00:38:10,960 --> 00:38:20,520
Speaker 1: Cool. So that is the more murders.

746
00:38:17,040 --> 00:38:20,680
Speaker 2: And we're back. Are there updates on this horrible story?

747
00:38:20,800 --> 00:38:23,880
Speaker 1: There are so Ian Brady died in a high security

748
00:38:23,920 --> 00:38:27,319
Speaker 1: hospital in twenty seventeen at age seventy nine. According to

749
00:38:27,360 --> 00:38:30,920
Speaker 1: a new BBC documentary The Moore's Murders, A Search for Justice,

750
00:38:31,160 --> 00:38:34,280
Speaker 1: He had written an autobiography while he was in prison.

751
00:38:34,280 --> 00:38:37,200
Speaker 1: There are about two hundred missing pages, which is like

752
00:38:37,640 --> 00:38:41,239
Speaker 1: mind boggling, and it's believed that those pages contain his

753
00:38:41,400 --> 00:38:45,160
Speaker 1: account of the nineteen sixty four murder and burial of

754
00:38:45,280 --> 00:38:49,000
Speaker 1: twelve year old Keith Bennett. Greater Manchester Police say they

755
00:38:49,040 --> 00:38:53,520
Speaker 1: remain committed to finding answers for the Bennett family. I mean,

756
00:38:53,719 --> 00:38:56,080
Speaker 1: what a horrible spot to be in, Like, do you

757
00:38:56,239 --> 00:39:01,359
Speaker 1: even want to hear that from him? It's just imagine.

758
00:39:00,640 --> 00:39:03,400
Speaker 2: And after all those years and the other families that

759
00:39:03,640 --> 00:39:08,200
Speaker 2: did basically get that, I guess we'll say, quote unquote

760
00:39:08,280 --> 00:39:11,680
Speaker 2: closure but at least an answer. Yeah, to still not

761
00:39:11,760 --> 00:39:14,120
Speaker 2: have an answer is just a nightmare.

762
00:39:14,280 --> 00:39:19,840
Speaker 1: Definitely. Okay, Well, let's get into Karen's story about the

763
00:39:19,960 --> 00:39:20,800
Speaker 1: gorilla killer.

764
00:39:28,080 --> 00:39:30,839
Speaker 2: Mine is the opposite of that. Mine is I want

765
00:39:30,840 --> 00:39:37,080
Speaker 2: a Georgia hardstock style and is hard stock, no stark, stark.

766
00:39:37,120 --> 00:39:38,799
Speaker 2: But my mouth did a weird thing at the end,

767
00:39:38,880 --> 00:39:43,360
Speaker 2: which it does sometimes it's my new thing. Sorry, I

768
00:39:43,440 --> 00:39:45,880
Speaker 2: sound like I'm slurring, but I have been sober for

769
00:39:45,960 --> 00:39:50,760
Speaker 2: quite some time, or at least I should specify don't drink.

770
00:39:51,520 --> 00:39:53,399
Speaker 2: There's so many people who are like, your sobriety means

771
00:39:53,400 --> 00:39:54,520
Speaker 2: a lot to me. And then I'm like, well, I

772
00:39:54,680 --> 00:39:57,840
Speaker 2: stop drinking in nineteen ninety seven. But I am definitely

773
00:39:57,840 --> 00:40:01,120
Speaker 2: on meth. Keep it in mind, everybody.

774
00:40:01,480 --> 00:40:03,600
Speaker 1: Uh, Okay.

775
00:40:03,640 --> 00:40:06,120
Speaker 2: So when we were in Portland, I did the thing

776
00:40:06,160 --> 00:40:09,160
Speaker 2: that you were just talking about where we had three shows,

777
00:40:09,200 --> 00:40:12,359
Speaker 2: we had three murders. I only learned that we had

778
00:40:12,360 --> 00:40:14,719
Speaker 2: a third show, or at least was reminded we had

779
00:40:14,719 --> 00:40:17,560
Speaker 2: a third show. Like the night the day of the

780
00:40:17,600 --> 00:40:19,920
Speaker 2: first day I was there, Steven texted me and he

781
00:40:20,000 --> 00:40:22,200
Speaker 2: was like, I said, so I'm going to do this

782
00:40:22,239 --> 00:40:23,600
Speaker 2: and I'm going to do this, and he goes, okay,

783
00:40:23,600 --> 00:40:25,200
Speaker 2: and what's your third one? I was and I just

784
00:40:25,239 --> 00:40:26,840
Speaker 2: wrote back, no, no, no.

785
00:40:26,840 --> 00:40:30,920
Speaker 1: On Saturday, no Friday, okay, yeah, oh my god, or

786
00:40:31,200 --> 00:40:32,239
Speaker 1: maybe it was Thursday.

787
00:40:32,520 --> 00:40:34,319
Speaker 2: It was late for me because I was like, are

788
00:40:34,320 --> 00:40:36,200
Speaker 2: you kidding me? I have to do a whole nother one.

789
00:40:36,360 --> 00:40:39,680
Speaker 1: Yeah. No, that's like, man, we need you and I

790
00:40:39,680 --> 00:40:41,480
Speaker 1: I'm not saying you. I'm not saying we need to

791
00:40:41,480 --> 00:40:43,799
Speaker 1: get our shits together with traveling because there has not

792
00:40:43,880 --> 00:40:46,839
Speaker 1: been a fucking day when we're traveling that I am

793
00:40:46,880 --> 00:40:50,040
Speaker 1: not scrambling. Yes, well about us. We just I think

794
00:40:50,080 --> 00:40:52,840
Speaker 1: you and I both just work better when we're under pressure.

795
00:40:53,080 --> 00:40:55,040
Speaker 2: That's usual most writers are like that.

796
00:40:55,160 --> 00:40:59,320
Speaker 1: And are and are so scared of failing and dread

797
00:40:59,320 --> 00:41:01,800
Speaker 1: work so much you put it off to the last minute.

798
00:41:02,000 --> 00:41:05,840
Speaker 2: Well, because, and I will say this for myself, typing

799
00:41:05,920 --> 00:41:09,959
Speaker 2: is not writing. So when you write it for things

800
00:41:10,040 --> 00:41:13,000
Speaker 2: like this, it is reading and kind of processing and

801
00:41:13,040 --> 00:41:14,680
Speaker 2: figuring out a way you're going to tell a story.

802
00:41:14,840 --> 00:41:14,960
Speaker 1: Right.

803
00:41:15,440 --> 00:41:17,440
Speaker 2: The problem is that if you do it last minute,

804
00:41:17,640 --> 00:41:20,160
Speaker 2: you're then you're just read. You're reading something you cut

805
00:41:20,160 --> 00:41:22,120
Speaker 2: and pace, as opposed to telling a good story.

806
00:41:21,920 --> 00:41:25,680
Speaker 1: And there's no personality in it exactly. And so but

807
00:41:25,760 --> 00:41:28,400
Speaker 1: I'm I'm like, fun, sorry, whatever, No, No, When I

808
00:41:28,440 --> 00:41:29,960
Speaker 1: get it, when I sit down and start working on

809
00:41:30,000 --> 00:41:32,040
Speaker 1: the story that I like, I'm so happy and I'm

810
00:41:32,120 --> 00:41:35,000
Speaker 1: so stoked and it's like my favorite part of the week. Yes,

811
00:41:35,080 --> 00:41:37,279
Speaker 1: but getting to that spot is so fucking hard for me.

812
00:41:37,440 --> 00:41:40,239
Speaker 1: It's the bridge, it's the bridge to doing it. That's

813
00:41:40,280 --> 00:41:41,200
Speaker 1: the hardest. Yeah.

814
00:41:41,280 --> 00:41:43,840
Speaker 2: That's when I start doing a lot of laundry. I

815
00:41:43,880 --> 00:41:46,880
Speaker 2: start wiping down surfaces, but that already clean, I have.

816
00:41:47,520 --> 00:41:53,000
Speaker 1: I don't do anything. Oh, sit there frozen. Yes, okay,

817
00:41:53,000 --> 00:41:53,879
Speaker 1: So here's the thing.

818
00:41:54,160 --> 00:41:58,399
Speaker 2: In my panic of going third murder, I start working

819
00:41:58,440 --> 00:42:01,880
Speaker 2: on this fucking guy. He killed so many people across

820
00:42:01,920 --> 00:42:04,960
Speaker 2: the nation that he didn't feel like a Portland killer

821
00:42:04,960 --> 00:42:05,120
Speaker 2: to me.

822
00:42:05,280 --> 00:42:08,319
Speaker 1: Ok, And I was very angry at him.

823
00:42:09,400 --> 00:42:12,800
Speaker 2: But luckily he's still there for me, because the second

824
00:42:12,800 --> 00:42:14,680
Speaker 2: we bet we get back, we have to record again.

825
00:42:14,719 --> 00:42:16,239
Speaker 1: And so I was like, well, I'm gonna go back.

826
00:42:16,280 --> 00:42:16,960
Speaker 1: He supports you.

827
00:42:17,200 --> 00:42:20,360
Speaker 2: That's right, Earl Leonard Nelson, the gorilla Killer.

828
00:42:20,920 --> 00:42:24,719
Speaker 1: Have you ever heard? No, all right, does he kill gorilla? No?

829
00:42:25,640 --> 00:42:28,960
Speaker 1: That's the dumbest show worth No, no, no, it's the

830
00:42:29,040 --> 00:42:31,840
Speaker 1: dumbest name. What a bummer? Was he like?

831
00:42:31,920 --> 00:42:35,160
Speaker 2: Oh man, oh that's so insulting. Well, I've read so

832
00:42:35,280 --> 00:42:38,000
Speaker 2: this is one of those ones I should say. Murder

833
00:42:38,080 --> 00:42:40,600
Speaker 2: Pedia is one of my favorite websites. It is an

834
00:42:40,640 --> 00:42:43,719
Speaker 2: aggregate site where they just they bring you all the

835
00:42:43,840 --> 00:42:46,600
Speaker 2: articles and anything written about the killer you've looked up.

836
00:42:46,719 --> 00:42:49,239
Speaker 1: It's not like Wikipedia, where it's like here is this

837
00:42:49,600 --> 00:42:52,160
Speaker 1: paragraph by paragraph of what happened. It's like, here's an

838
00:42:52,200 --> 00:42:54,280
Speaker 1: article from two thousand and six, here's one from nineteen

839
00:42:54,320 --> 00:42:54,920
Speaker 1: sixty seven.

840
00:42:55,080 --> 00:42:58,200
Speaker 2: Yes, it's the best, but you also then in reading

841
00:42:58,239 --> 00:43:02,960
Speaker 2: all the articles about the one person, really how this guy?

842
00:43:03,040 --> 00:43:05,720
Speaker 2: It was like he was called the gorilla killer because

843
00:43:05,719 --> 00:43:08,160
Speaker 2: of his features. He was called the gorilla killer because

844
00:43:08,160 --> 00:43:10,200
Speaker 2: he used to walk on his hands. He was called

845
00:43:10,239 --> 00:43:12,400
Speaker 2: the gorilla killer because it took so much strength to

846
00:43:12,480 --> 00:43:15,320
Speaker 2: kill these women and he rarely used a weapon.

847
00:43:15,320 --> 00:43:17,319
Speaker 1: He killed them with his hands. Whatever. Yeah, it's that

848
00:43:17,400 --> 00:43:18,040
Speaker 1: kind of situation.

849
00:43:18,120 --> 00:43:23,120
Speaker 2: But still, all that being said, murder Pedia works like Wikipedia,

850
00:43:23,239 --> 00:43:26,120
Speaker 2: So if you use it or like it, I recommend

851
00:43:26,120 --> 00:43:29,000
Speaker 2: you give him five bucks because I want it to

852
00:43:29,080 --> 00:43:33,880
Speaker 2: exist always, because it's such a great sight for research

853
00:43:33,920 --> 00:43:36,239
Speaker 2: for this. It makes my life so much easier. Okay,

854
00:43:37,120 --> 00:43:42,040
Speaker 2: Earl Nelson, the gorilla Killer, not like that. When you

855
00:43:42,080 --> 00:43:44,080
Speaker 2: think of crimes that the early at Tonia.

856
00:43:43,800 --> 00:43:47,600
Speaker 1: Said, he asked Karen, which I do all the time.

857
00:43:47,800 --> 00:43:51,000
Speaker 2: You think the Lindberg baby kidnapping and murder, You think

858
00:43:51,040 --> 00:43:54,279
Speaker 2: al Capone and eliot ness and the mafia crimes with

859
00:43:54,400 --> 00:43:58,680
Speaker 2: prohibition oops, you think of Leopold and Loeb. But meanwhile,

860
00:43:58,800 --> 00:44:03,640
Speaker 2: while all of those things are happening, the first known

861
00:44:03,760 --> 00:44:09,480
Speaker 2: American serial sex killer was on a rampage and nobody

862
00:44:09,480 --> 00:44:15,319
Speaker 2: knows about it, or few people do. The Bay area newspapers,

863
00:44:15,360 --> 00:44:17,680
Speaker 2: because he started in the San Francisco Bay Area, called

864
00:44:17,760 --> 00:44:20,240
Speaker 2: him the Dark Strangler because of his village.

865
00:44:20,719 --> 00:44:23,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, I know, right, because he could slip in and out.

866
00:44:23,080 --> 00:44:28,040
Speaker 2: Of these houses without being seen, sometimes in broad daylight.

867
00:44:28,760 --> 00:44:31,200
Speaker 2: And later on he was called the gorilla killer because

868
00:44:31,320 --> 00:44:33,720
Speaker 2: he murdered women with his bare hands. But it turns

869
00:44:33,719 --> 00:44:37,640
Speaker 2: out he was just plain old, psychotic Earl Leonard Nelson.

870
00:44:38,320 --> 00:44:42,200
Speaker 2: So Earl Nelson's mother and father both died of syphilis

871
00:44:42,200 --> 00:44:44,200
Speaker 2: before he reached the age of two.

872
00:44:44,920 --> 00:44:48,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a rough start. That's just your kickoff. That's

873
00:44:48,640 --> 00:44:51,120
Speaker 1: just downhill. Yeah, that's like the bottom of the hill.

874
00:44:51,200 --> 00:44:53,640
Speaker 1: And then you keep on going. Then you're down in

875
00:44:53,680 --> 00:44:55,840
Speaker 1: the sewer area. You're like, I'm at the bottom.

876
00:44:56,440 --> 00:45:00,359
Speaker 2: Both of my parents don't have noses. So he sent

877
00:45:00,400 --> 00:45:03,080
Speaker 2: to San Francisco to be raised by his maternal grandmother,

878
00:45:03,400 --> 00:45:08,919
Speaker 2: who is a devout Pentecostal. So he's got a fun

879
00:45:09,000 --> 00:45:14,799
Speaker 2: and damaging childhood from a bible thumping old lady grandmother.

880
00:45:16,560 --> 00:45:19,200
Speaker 2: He was said that, it said he was already a quiet,

881
00:45:19,200 --> 00:45:22,600
Speaker 2: morbid kid with a violent temper. But then and he

882
00:45:22,719 --> 00:45:27,160
Speaker 2: was expelled from school at age seven for being incorrigible.

883
00:45:27,920 --> 00:45:33,680
Speaker 1: Age seven's cute? Corrigible? What's his name again, earl? Earl?

884
00:45:33,719 --> 00:45:35,400
Speaker 1: You're incorrigible? Earl.

885
00:45:38,160 --> 00:45:42,480
Speaker 2: But he then, at age ten, is hit by a

886
00:45:42,480 --> 00:45:44,239
Speaker 2: streetcar while riding his bicycle.

887
00:45:44,880 --> 00:45:47,280
Speaker 1: He has a head injury.

888
00:45:47,440 --> 00:45:50,239
Speaker 2: He's in a coma for six days, and when he

889
00:45:50,280 --> 00:45:50,839
Speaker 2: wakes up.

890
00:45:50,760 --> 00:45:53,240
Speaker 1: His behavior becomes even more erratic.

891
00:45:54,320 --> 00:45:59,200
Speaker 2: He begins suffering from frequent headaches, memory loss, and eventually migraine.

892
00:45:59,239 --> 00:46:01,279
Speaker 1: Oh Jesus, so.

893
00:46:01,360 --> 00:46:06,000
Speaker 2: Now his moody and ang His moody angry periods are

894
00:46:06,040 --> 00:46:09,720
Speaker 2: broken up by periods of mania, in which he takes

895
00:46:09,760 --> 00:46:13,160
Speaker 2: to walking on his hands or lifting heavy chairs with

896
00:46:13,280 --> 00:46:13,960
Speaker 2: his teeth.

897
00:46:15,800 --> 00:46:17,880
Speaker 1: Can you imagine we saw an eleven year old drifting

898
00:46:17,920 --> 00:46:21,200
Speaker 1: the chair with his teeth at eleven.

899
00:46:20,880 --> 00:46:24,120
Speaker 2: Year old, where you're like, or oh, please put that down, earl,

900
00:46:24,600 --> 00:46:26,920
Speaker 2: sit down, eat your dinner. Each you a peanut butter, salwach.

901
00:46:27,280 --> 00:46:28,840
Speaker 2: You don't need to do that with the chair anymore.

902
00:46:28,880 --> 00:46:31,800
Speaker 2: This is also back when everything was made of solid wood.

903
00:46:32,640 --> 00:46:35,920
Speaker 2: It's a fucking oak chair. He's picking it up with

904
00:46:35,920 --> 00:46:37,839
Speaker 2: his teeth because he's like, I gotta get this out

905
00:46:37,880 --> 00:46:37,960
Speaker 2: of it.

906
00:46:38,080 --> 00:46:41,600
Speaker 1: Oh God, Okay.

907
00:46:41,760 --> 00:46:45,600
Speaker 2: So it's quoted as saying this is my favorite quote

908
00:46:45,600 --> 00:46:48,799
Speaker 2: on Murder Murder Repedia about him as a young man,

909
00:46:48,880 --> 00:46:51,799
Speaker 2: Nelson was a day dreamer and a compulsive masturbader.

910
00:46:53,560 --> 00:46:56,080
Speaker 1: You have to pick one of those. You can't be both.

911
00:46:56,200 --> 00:46:59,040
Speaker 2: I think they go together nicely because it's like whistling,

912
00:46:59,120 --> 00:46:59,960
Speaker 2: handsome pocket.

913
00:47:00,160 --> 00:47:04,719
Speaker 1: What is the nightmare equivalent of a day dream A

914
00:47:04,800 --> 00:47:08,120
Speaker 1: chronic masturbator? We both had the answer.

915
00:47:10,640 --> 00:47:14,440
Speaker 2: Also, eighty percent of most serial killers are chronic masturbators

916
00:47:14,480 --> 00:47:15,080
Speaker 2: as children.

917
00:47:15,239 --> 00:47:17,560
Speaker 1: That's one of those. That's one of those.

918
00:47:18,280 --> 00:47:23,640
Speaker 2: Harold Scheckter lookout for this red flag things as a team.

919
00:47:23,719 --> 00:47:25,560
Speaker 2: He was a regular at the bars and brothels of

920
00:47:25,600 --> 00:47:28,360
Speaker 2: the Barbary Coast, which was like the red light district

921
00:47:28,520 --> 00:47:31,880
Speaker 2: of turn of the century San Francisco. When he was eighteen,

922
00:47:31,960 --> 00:47:34,239
Speaker 2: he broke into a cabin that he thought was abandoned,

923
00:47:34,760 --> 00:47:37,319
Speaker 2: and he was arrested and spent two years in San

924
00:47:37,400 --> 00:47:38,160
Speaker 2: Quentin for it.

925
00:47:38,480 --> 00:47:40,360
Speaker 1: Can you imagine being a teenager in San Quentin?

926
00:47:40,719 --> 00:47:44,000
Speaker 2: I bet it wasn't that cool. Now, So he enlistened

927
00:47:44,000 --> 00:47:47,840
Speaker 2: in the Navy. He gets kicked out for behaving oddly

928
00:47:47,880 --> 00:47:50,520
Speaker 2: and erratically. He actually was, he was because it was

929
00:47:50,560 --> 00:47:54,399
Speaker 2: World War One. He enlisted in and got kicked out

930
00:47:54,480 --> 00:47:57,480
Speaker 2: of the military four times, Holy shure. And he just

931
00:47:57,560 --> 00:47:59,279
Speaker 2: kept signing up under a different name and they would

932
00:47:59,280 --> 00:48:01,440
Speaker 2: take him because it was like active duty.

933
00:48:01,520 --> 00:48:04,200
Speaker 1: They needed people, and here like, you're too crazy to

934
00:48:04,239 --> 00:48:05,040
Speaker 1: go to the front line.

935
00:48:05,160 --> 00:48:10,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, we're we're getting our asses kicked over like over there,

936
00:48:10,520 --> 00:48:11,719
Speaker 2: and you still can't come.

937
00:48:11,880 --> 00:48:14,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, and just be a bullet catcher.

938
00:48:15,000 --> 00:48:18,160
Speaker 2: So he this the last time he was in He

939
00:48:18,239 --> 00:48:21,400
Speaker 2: was in the Navy, and he got kicked out because

940
00:48:21,400 --> 00:48:23,640
Speaker 2: he refused to do anything. But Lyon is caught and

941
00:48:23,760 --> 00:48:27,200
Speaker 2: rant about the Great Beast of Revelation. So he was

942
00:48:27,320 --> 00:48:31,920
Speaker 2: just a crazy Bible thumper and he ends up. Oh

943
00:48:31,960 --> 00:48:34,799
Speaker 2: I said, he refused to do anything, but lion is

944
00:48:34,840 --> 00:48:40,080
Speaker 2: caught and rant about the Great Beast of Revelation aka dreamsturbating.

945
00:48:40,160 --> 00:48:43,319
Speaker 1: Dream sturbating, that's what it is. That's what it is.

946
00:48:43,640 --> 00:48:46,160
Speaker 2: So they commit him to NAP, a state hospital which

947
00:48:46,280 --> 00:48:51,960
Speaker 2: was a very famous mental insane asylum in northern California.

948
00:48:52,080 --> 00:48:54,640
Speaker 2: It was there that it was discovered he had both

949
00:48:54,680 --> 00:48:55,840
Speaker 2: gonerhea and suphali.

950
00:48:56,000 --> 00:48:59,680
Speaker 1: Oh my fucking god. Yeah, dude, you I mean this

951
00:48:59,760 --> 00:49:02,160
Speaker 1: isn't your brain has no chance at this point getting

952
00:49:02,239 --> 00:49:04,759
Speaker 1: hit by a fucking car. He probably got were born

953
00:49:04,800 --> 00:49:07,480
Speaker 1: with syphilis. Yeah, these things eat your brain.

954
00:49:07,800 --> 00:49:10,000
Speaker 2: His brain was just never not inflamed.

955
00:49:10,480 --> 00:49:12,680
Speaker 1: That's what those feel bad for this guy. Ye how

956
00:49:12,760 --> 00:49:15,000
Speaker 1: I probably find out what he does. Yeah, you won't

957
00:49:15,000 --> 00:49:17,360
Speaker 1: feel bad later, but you can definitely feel bad for

958
00:49:17,440 --> 00:49:21,399
Speaker 1: ten year old y'all because he did not have it good.

959
00:49:21,600 --> 00:49:24,120
Speaker 1: He was There's a reason he was picking up chairs

960
00:49:24,120 --> 00:49:24,640
Speaker 1: with his teeth.

961
00:49:25,280 --> 00:49:29,319
Speaker 2: So he managed to escape three times from Napa State

962
00:49:29,400 --> 00:49:33,719
Speaker 2: Hospital before the staff just stopped trying to find him,

963
00:49:33,719 --> 00:49:35,920
Speaker 2: which is the opposite of the three strikes law.

964
00:49:38,080 --> 00:49:39,359
Speaker 1: So he goes back.

965
00:49:39,400 --> 00:49:42,160
Speaker 2: After the third time he escapes, he goes back lives

966
00:49:42,160 --> 00:49:44,399
Speaker 2: with his aunt again in San Francisco. His aunt gets

967
00:49:44,480 --> 00:49:46,920
Speaker 2: him a job as a janitor at Saint Mary's Hospital.

968
00:49:47,280 --> 00:49:51,479
Speaker 2: Saint Mary's Hospital is where my aunt Mary works. Full

969
00:49:51,520 --> 00:49:55,520
Speaker 2: circle Okay, so there at Saint Mary's Hospital, he meets

970
00:49:55,560 --> 00:50:00,680
Speaker 2: and Mary's fifty eight year old spinster Mary Martin twenty four.

971
00:50:00,880 --> 00:50:02,719
Speaker 1: Ooh Mary, uh huh.

972
00:50:02,800 --> 00:50:08,400
Speaker 2: She's very shy and reclusive and he and obviously an

973
00:50:08,440 --> 00:50:10,600
Speaker 2: old maid. Here comes Earl.

974
00:50:10,480 --> 00:50:12,759
Speaker 1: Fifty eight year olds old. She's an old name, well,

975
00:50:12,800 --> 00:50:14,040
Speaker 1: I mean fifty eight.

976
00:50:14,520 --> 00:50:17,960
Speaker 2: Sorry, as a forty seven year old, I'm gonna say, yeah.

977
00:50:17,840 --> 00:50:20,440
Speaker 1: Maybe she's single as fun. Maybe she's not an all name.

978
00:50:20,640 --> 00:50:20,880
Speaker 2: You know what?

979
00:50:20,920 --> 00:50:23,600
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know. Well.

980
00:50:23,640 --> 00:50:25,279
Speaker 2: Also, this was back when you were suposed to get

981
00:50:25,280 --> 00:50:27,399
Speaker 2: married when you were fourteen, right, and have six kids

982
00:50:27,440 --> 00:50:29,160
Speaker 2: by the time you were twenty, right, So she was

983
00:50:29,320 --> 00:50:32,440
Speaker 2: way out of the window possibility, just kind of standing

984
00:50:32,440 --> 00:50:35,040
Speaker 2: around Saint Mary's Hospital, staring out the window, pulling her

985
00:50:35,080 --> 00:50:36,719
Speaker 2: sweater across.

986
00:50:36,480 --> 00:50:38,680
Speaker 1: Waiting for a twenty four year old psychopath to save her.

987
00:50:39,200 --> 00:50:40,200
Speaker 1: And then he shows.

988
00:50:39,960 --> 00:50:45,719
Speaker 2: Knagvs there He is Earl. So he turns out she's

989
00:50:45,800 --> 00:50:48,759
Speaker 2: very shy and reclusive. He makes her life a living hell.

990
00:50:48,880 --> 00:50:52,319
Speaker 2: He is insanely jealous, He refuses to bathe. He has

991
00:50:52,400 --> 00:50:54,879
Speaker 2: terrible manners and an insatiable sex drive.

992
00:50:55,200 --> 00:50:57,560
Speaker 1: What was their date? The're like dating life like.

993
00:50:58,360 --> 00:51:02,360
Speaker 2: The two of them think they whatever the equivalent of

994
00:51:02,400 --> 00:51:03,560
Speaker 2: the Trials of Nuremberg.

995
00:51:03,719 --> 00:51:06,560
Speaker 1: They went to see that every fucking weekend, right right.

996
00:51:07,320 --> 00:51:13,080
Speaker 2: Also, Earl has terrible migraine attacks that sometimes leave him

997
00:51:13,160 --> 00:51:16,720
Speaker 2: unable to walk, and one time, during one of those attacks,

998
00:51:16,760 --> 00:51:19,279
Speaker 2: he falls from a ladder at work and.

999
00:51:19,320 --> 00:51:22,920
Speaker 1: Hits his head. Fucking fuck, come on, double head trauma.

1000
00:51:23,520 --> 00:51:27,320
Speaker 1: They don't cancel each other out. Now, he's really nice,

1001
00:51:29,080 --> 00:51:31,960
Speaker 1: that's all that would be amazing. He not got knocked

1002
00:51:32,000 --> 00:51:32,560
Speaker 1: back into.

1003
00:51:32,400 --> 00:51:36,160
Speaker 2: Place and no, no, and he just started working for

1004
00:51:36,239 --> 00:51:37,400
Speaker 2: Habitat for Humanity.

1005
00:51:38,320 --> 00:51:40,360
Speaker 1: Just he was like the chillest bro at the beach.

1006
00:51:40,400 --> 00:51:42,480
Speaker 1: After that, that's the end of the story. And then

1007
00:51:42,520 --> 00:51:43,560
Speaker 1: she went on to kill people.

1008
00:51:44,520 --> 00:51:48,040
Speaker 2: Oh I just really quickly have to say, total sidebar,

1009
00:51:48,280 --> 00:51:52,359
Speaker 2: but talking about chillbros at the beach. So Rizahmed of

1010
00:51:52,440 --> 00:51:56,960
Speaker 2: course is on my DVR recording, and so I finally

1011
00:51:57,000 --> 00:52:00,360
Speaker 2: brought myself to watch the episode of Girls he's in.

1012
00:52:00,440 --> 00:52:04,080
Speaker 1: Did you watch it? I love the show. I'm caught up. Okay,

1013
00:52:04,400 --> 00:52:10,760
Speaker 1: he's in two episodes. Yes, yeah, him, Lena Dunham's character

1014
00:52:10,840 --> 00:52:11,520
Speaker 1: getting together.

1015
00:52:12,600 --> 00:52:14,759
Speaker 2: I'm just all I have to say is I'm really mad.

1016
00:52:15,160 --> 00:52:18,759
Speaker 2: What I'm really fucking for? First of all, why like

1017
00:52:18,840 --> 00:52:19,160
Speaker 2: she is?

1018
00:52:19,200 --> 00:52:21,560
Speaker 1: Because she wanted to make it because Lena Dunham wanted

1019
00:52:21,560 --> 00:52:23,040
Speaker 1: to fucking make out with real men.

1020
00:52:23,160 --> 00:52:25,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, she made it happen. She was just like a

1021
00:52:25,600 --> 00:52:27,200
Speaker 2: NonStop power eye contact.

1022
00:52:27,200 --> 00:52:30,840
Speaker 1: And maybe less attracted to him because I don't like

1023
00:52:31,600 --> 00:52:34,840
Speaker 1: scrawnnie guys, huh and he's scrawny.

1024
00:52:35,280 --> 00:52:37,080
Speaker 2: It made me love him ten times more than I

1025
00:52:37,120 --> 00:52:40,560
Speaker 2: already did because I was like, it was like as

1026
00:52:40,600 --> 00:52:43,279
Speaker 2: if that was not a TV show, and I was like,

1027
00:52:43,520 --> 00:52:44,560
Speaker 2: why would you pick her?

1028
00:52:44,840 --> 00:52:45,799
Speaker 1: Why didn't you pick me?

1029
00:52:46,000 --> 00:52:48,719
Speaker 2: I wasn't at that beach or that beach party. I

1030
00:52:48,719 --> 00:52:51,360
Speaker 2: didn't see you rapping. I wasn't there to make it happen.

1031
00:52:51,440 --> 00:52:52,960
Speaker 2: And if I were there, I would have never been

1032
00:52:53,000 --> 00:52:55,000
Speaker 2: anywhere near you, not have talked to you.

1033
00:52:54,920 --> 00:52:57,480
Speaker 1: You wouldn't have really the like balls to be like

1034
00:52:57,520 --> 00:52:59,000
Speaker 1: that guy is gonna want to fuck me, I'm gonna

1035
00:52:59,000 --> 00:53:00,880
Speaker 1: go talk to him. That's right, I wouldn't. That's what

1036
00:53:00,920 --> 00:53:02,719
Speaker 1: I love. I mean, fuck, I love that about her.

1037
00:53:02,960 --> 00:53:05,839
Speaker 1: I do too. I want a question about him wanting

1038
00:53:05,840 --> 00:53:08,359
Speaker 1: to fuck her, like I know, which was like, this

1039
00:53:08,400 --> 00:53:10,160
Speaker 1: is happening and making it happen. This is the guy

1040
00:53:10,200 --> 00:53:12,959
Speaker 1: that's gonna fuck me now, which actually does happen often. Yeah,

1041
00:53:13,000 --> 00:53:15,040
Speaker 1: but the thing, I agree with all of that, but

1042
00:53:15,120 --> 00:53:17,920
Speaker 1: I was just like, eh, he's too scromny. Fuck you.

1043
00:53:19,280 --> 00:53:21,440
Speaker 2: I'm now I'm mad at you and her, all right.

1044
00:53:21,880 --> 00:53:24,200
Speaker 2: I should have never gone into that area sidebar. But

1045
00:53:24,360 --> 00:53:26,480
Speaker 2: it hurt me deeply, and I was surprised because I

1046
00:53:26,520 --> 00:53:28,279
Speaker 2: was like, what, I don't give a shit, and I

1047
00:53:28,320 --> 00:53:29,160
Speaker 2: knew what the plot was.

1048
00:53:29,239 --> 00:53:31,319
Speaker 1: It was just stupid stoner. It was so great I know,

1049
00:53:31,600 --> 00:53:35,680
Speaker 1: but I love that anyway. Okay, listen, here's what I'm

1050
00:53:35,719 --> 00:53:40,200
Speaker 1: telling you. He fucking falls off a ladder.

1051
00:53:40,040 --> 00:53:42,800
Speaker 2: Because of a migraine double down head trauma.

1052
00:53:44,200 --> 00:53:46,799
Speaker 1: He leaves the hospital after two days because he won't

1053
00:53:46,800 --> 00:53:49,040
Speaker 1: stay there anymore, head wrapped in vantages.

1054
00:53:49,200 --> 00:53:51,360
Speaker 2: So he's just running around on the street like a

1055
00:53:51,440 --> 00:53:54,839
Speaker 2: lunatic with a head wound like Frankenstein. Yes, and he

1056
00:53:54,880 --> 00:53:57,960
Speaker 2: goes back home. Now he's more paranoid and violent with

1057
00:53:58,000 --> 00:54:01,600
Speaker 2: his wife. She's like, come fuck, h yeah, She's like,

1058
00:54:01,920 --> 00:54:04,000
Speaker 2: this was already weird. I already doubted it, but I

1059
00:54:04,040 --> 00:54:06,880
Speaker 2: did it anyway. Now you're now I can't talk to

1060
00:54:07,000 --> 00:54:09,640
Speaker 2: my own brother without you freaking out like she He

1061
00:54:09,640 --> 00:54:11,840
Speaker 2: would literally get jealous if she talked to her brother.

1062
00:54:12,760 --> 00:54:16,279
Speaker 1: And she's sixties.

1063
00:54:18,280 --> 00:54:20,080
Speaker 2: So one of the articles I read said that she

1064
00:54:20,120 --> 00:54:22,440
Speaker 2: had a nervous breakdown because of him. But they're just

1065
00:54:22,520 --> 00:54:25,560
Speaker 2: one either way. She divorces him within six months of

1066
00:54:25,560 --> 00:54:26,280
Speaker 2: them being married.

1067
00:54:26,360 --> 00:54:28,600
Speaker 1: Wow, and oh boo.

1068
00:54:28,640 --> 00:54:30,520
Speaker 2: Then I wrote, although I like that he was way

1069
00:54:30,560 --> 00:54:32,440
Speaker 2: into older ladies. It gives me hope.

1070
00:54:32,800 --> 00:54:35,399
Speaker 1: Oh my god, sometimes.

1071
00:54:35,120 --> 00:54:38,719
Speaker 2: I have fun as I write these things. All right,

1072
00:54:38,800 --> 00:54:39,240
Speaker 2: So they're.

1073
00:54:39,120 --> 00:54:40,880
Speaker 1: Gonna get a sweet young thing like Chrisamed.

1074
00:54:41,080 --> 00:54:45,120
Speaker 2: That's right, but not not in his twenties. Doesn't picture

1075
00:54:45,239 --> 00:54:45,960
Speaker 2: up with his teeth.

1076
00:54:46,440 --> 00:54:50,840
Speaker 1: No, I thought you ever trained? Yeah, definitely a starner, Yes,

1077
00:54:51,400 --> 00:54:56,080
Speaker 1: somewhat chill with eyes that take up two thirds of

1078
00:54:56,120 --> 00:54:56,480
Speaker 1: his head.

1079
00:54:57,120 --> 00:55:00,680
Speaker 2: Anyhow, In nineteen twenty one, he turns from glory to

1080
00:55:00,800 --> 00:55:04,839
Speaker 2: sex crimes. He attempts to molest twelve year old Mary

1081
00:55:04,840 --> 00:55:08,080
Speaker 2: Nelson after seeing her playing in her basement and then

1082
00:55:08,120 --> 00:55:10,839
Speaker 2: deciding to pose as the gas man. So he sees

1083
00:55:10,880 --> 00:55:13,839
Speaker 2: a little girl playing in a basement, knocks on the door,

1084
00:55:13,840 --> 00:55:17,400
Speaker 2: says he's from the gas company. Her older brother, who's

1085
00:55:17,400 --> 00:55:19,680
Speaker 2: like in his early twenties, I think, lets him in.

1086
00:55:19,800 --> 00:55:22,759
Speaker 2: He goes straight down to the basement and immediately attacks her.

1087
00:55:23,280 --> 00:55:27,200
Speaker 2: She fights him off, screaming. The brother hears, runs downstairs,

1088
00:55:27,520 --> 00:55:30,239
Speaker 2: goes to fight him. He like scorms past. The brother

1089
00:55:30,320 --> 00:55:33,839
Speaker 2: runs outside. The brother follows him, runs after. They fight

1090
00:55:33,920 --> 00:55:36,719
Speaker 2: in the street, and then Earle punches this kid in

1091
00:55:36,800 --> 00:55:38,320
Speaker 2: the head and gets away.

1092
00:55:38,440 --> 00:55:41,680
Speaker 1: Oh, no head injury, new head injury.

1093
00:55:42,960 --> 00:55:46,120
Speaker 2: Two hours later, Earl has picked up riding a trolley car.

1094
00:55:46,640 --> 00:55:50,080
Speaker 2: He's just like around. He's in the neighborhood. I some sight,

1095
00:55:50,160 --> 00:55:54,279
Speaker 2: saying Yeah, he's like, where's that super crooked street I've

1096
00:55:54,320 --> 00:55:58,400
Speaker 2: heard so much about That night in jail he plucks

1097
00:55:58,400 --> 00:56:03,560
Speaker 2: out all of his eyebrows with his fingernails. Yes, so

1098
00:56:04,000 --> 00:56:05,000
Speaker 2: he's already a creep.

1099
00:56:05,160 --> 00:56:06,160
Speaker 1: Now he has no eyebrs.

1100
00:56:06,200 --> 00:56:12,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's recommitted back to nap Estate Hospital and stays

1101
00:56:12,080 --> 00:56:13,000
Speaker 2: there for four years.

1102
00:56:13,360 --> 00:56:16,239
Speaker 1: So then he's released. And then I wrote what do

1103
00:56:16,280 --> 00:56:17,360
Speaker 1: you think happens next?

1104
00:56:17,520 --> 00:56:19,600
Speaker 2: A He gets a job as an accountant, lives a

1105
00:56:19,600 --> 00:56:22,960
Speaker 2: productive life in molestation free light. B. He dreams to

1106
00:56:23,080 --> 00:56:25,360
Speaker 2: rates his way into an early grave or ce the

1107
00:56:25,440 --> 00:56:26,240
Speaker 2: killings begin.

1108
00:56:26,560 --> 00:56:27,520
Speaker 1: Oh I want to go with c.

1109
00:56:27,960 --> 00:56:32,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, the killings begin in nineteen twenty six. So on

1110
00:56:32,080 --> 00:56:36,200
Speaker 2: February twentieth, sixty year old Clara Newman answers the front

1111
00:56:36,200 --> 00:56:39,000
Speaker 2: door to a man inquiring about her rooms to let

1112
00:56:39,080 --> 00:56:41,600
Speaker 2: sign in her front window. The man tells her his

1113
00:56:41,680 --> 00:56:44,600
Speaker 2: name is Virgil Wilson. He's carrying a Warren Bible and

1114
00:56:44,640 --> 00:56:47,399
Speaker 2: he's very polite. Clara brings him up to the room

1115
00:56:47,440 --> 00:56:51,440
Speaker 2: she's renting, and there he turns from kindy, kindly Bible

1116
00:56:51,480 --> 00:56:55,160
Speaker 2: lover to pure animal and strangles her to death. He

1117
00:56:55,239 --> 00:56:58,160
Speaker 2: rapes her dead body leaves her dress bunched up around

1118
00:56:58,160 --> 00:57:02,400
Speaker 2: her waist and leaves. On his way out, Clara's nephew

1119
00:57:02,560 --> 00:57:05,239
Speaker 2: sees the man in the front hall. He asks what

1120
00:57:05,280 --> 00:57:07,480
Speaker 2: the man is doing there, and the man says, tell

1121
00:57:07,520 --> 00:57:09,439
Speaker 2: your aunt, I want to rent the room.

1122
00:57:09,520 --> 00:57:10,680
Speaker 1: I'll be back in an hour.

1123
00:57:11,040 --> 00:57:13,440
Speaker 2: So the nephew goes back to his books and they

1124
00:57:13,480 --> 00:57:16,600
Speaker 2: don't discover the body until in the attic room until

1125
00:57:16,600 --> 00:57:21,840
Speaker 2: that night. My two weeks later, he kills Laura Bale

1126
00:57:21,960 --> 00:57:24,560
Speaker 2: in San Jose in the exact same way. She is

1127
00:57:24,600 --> 00:57:27,920
Speaker 2: a landlady that's renting out a room. He comes holding

1128
00:57:27,960 --> 00:57:31,880
Speaker 2: a Bible yes and being like, I'm interested.

1129
00:57:31,480 --> 00:57:33,480
Speaker 1: In your room.

1130
00:57:34,040 --> 00:57:36,720
Speaker 2: This time, the difference is he uses a belt to

1131
00:57:36,760 --> 00:57:40,800
Speaker 2: strangle her to death and she's found in the rental

1132
00:57:40,880 --> 00:57:45,200
Speaker 2: room naked from the waist down. So then three months

1133
00:57:45,240 --> 00:57:49,360
Speaker 2: pass and then Earl's cross country killing spree starts. So

1134
00:57:49,400 --> 00:57:53,160
Speaker 2: he basically does the exact same thing over and over,

1135
00:57:53,840 --> 00:57:57,680
Speaker 2: like he'll kill a woman who's who's letting a room,

1136
00:57:58,280 --> 00:58:00,600
Speaker 2: and then he like either stays in the city and

1137
00:58:00,640 --> 00:58:02,680
Speaker 2: does it again, or he jumps on a train and

1138
00:58:02,720 --> 00:58:04,920
Speaker 2: does it in a different city. So he does it everywhere.

1139
00:58:04,960 --> 00:58:08,920
Speaker 2: So on June tenth, he kills Lily in Saint Mary,

1140
00:58:09,080 --> 00:58:11,640
Speaker 2: who is sixty three years old. In San Francisco. On

1141
00:58:11,720 --> 00:58:14,960
Speaker 2: June twenty fourth, he kills Anna Russell, who's fifty eight

1142
00:58:15,080 --> 00:58:18,000
Speaker 2: in Santa Barbara. Then he goes back up to Oakland

1143
00:58:18,040 --> 00:58:25,920
Speaker 2: and he kills Mary Nesbit on August sixteenth. On October nineteenth,

1144
00:58:26,440 --> 00:58:28,800
Speaker 2: nineteen twenty six, this is all nineteen twenty six, he

1145
00:58:28,880 --> 00:58:33,160
Speaker 2: kills Beatrice Withers in Portland. She's only thirty five and

1146
00:58:33,200 --> 00:58:36,840
Speaker 2: her body was stuffed into a trunk. Then the next

1147
00:58:36,920 --> 00:58:40,480
Speaker 2: day he kills Virginia Grant, who's fifty nine in Portland.

1148
00:58:40,720 --> 00:58:43,160
Speaker 2: Her body is stuffed behind the furnace in her basement.

1149
00:58:43,800 --> 00:58:47,960
Speaker 2: On October twenty first, the day after that in Portland,

1150
00:58:48,000 --> 00:58:51,480
Speaker 2: she kills Mabel Fluke, and she's hidden in the attic,

1151
00:58:51,560 --> 00:58:53,560
Speaker 2: in the crawl space in the attic.

1152
00:58:53,600 --> 00:58:55,320
Speaker 1: What'd you say, Jesus? Oh?

1153
00:58:55,360 --> 00:58:59,120
Speaker 2: Oh, sorry, I thought you're asking a question. On November fifteenth,

1154
00:58:59,440 --> 00:59:02,320
Speaker 2: he kills Blanche Meyers, who's forty eight years old in

1155
00:59:02,360 --> 00:59:08,080
Speaker 2: Oregon City. November eighteenth, Wilhelmina Edmunds fifty six, back down

1156
00:59:08,120 --> 00:59:11,440
Speaker 2: in San Francisco, then back up in Seattle.

1157
00:59:11,600 --> 00:59:13,959
Speaker 1: On November twenty fourth, he kills Flores.

1158
00:59:13,720 --> 00:59:18,000
Speaker 2: Monks, and then the next day, oh.

1159
00:59:17,960 --> 00:59:18,320
Speaker 1: No, sorry.

1160
00:59:18,400 --> 00:59:22,560
Speaker 2: A month later he kills Elizabeth Beard in Council Bluffs,

1161
00:59:24,160 --> 00:59:25,640
Speaker 2: so he's clearly hopped a train.

1162
00:59:27,120 --> 00:59:28,560
Speaker 1: Then he's in Kansas City.

1163
00:59:28,960 --> 00:59:33,080
Speaker 2: On later in December, somewhere between December twenty third and

1164
00:59:33,160 --> 00:59:36,440
Speaker 2: twenty eighth, he kills Bonnie Pace in Kansas City.

1165
00:59:36,640 --> 00:59:38,200
Speaker 1: Jesus fucking Christ yeap.

1166
00:59:38,280 --> 00:59:41,880
Speaker 2: On December twenty eighth, he in Kansas City, he kills

1167
00:59:42,360 --> 00:59:45,560
Speaker 2: twenty eight year old Germania Harpin and her eight month

1168
00:59:45,560 --> 00:59:46,160
Speaker 2: old baby.

1169
00:59:46,880 --> 00:59:47,520
Speaker 1: Uh huh.

1170
00:59:47,560 --> 00:59:50,480
Speaker 2: He's on a serious fucking spree. Then he goes quiet

1171
00:59:50,520 --> 00:59:54,120
Speaker 2: for months, and then on April twenty seventh of nineteen

1172
00:59:54,160 --> 00:59:58,200
Speaker 2: twenty seven, in Philadelphia, which is where he was from

1173
00:59:58,240 --> 01:00:03,080
Speaker 2: originally where his parents, the Cephalletic super Couple.

1174
01:00:04,520 --> 01:00:05,120
Speaker 1: Are there.

1175
01:00:05,120 --> 01:00:09,560
Speaker 2: From Philadelphia, he goes back there and kills Mary McConnell.

1176
01:00:09,600 --> 01:00:10,720
Speaker 1: She's sixty years old.

1177
01:00:12,000 --> 01:00:17,320
Speaker 2: Then he gets somehow to Buffalo and on May thirtieth,

1178
01:00:17,360 --> 01:00:20,440
Speaker 2: he kills Jenny Randolph, who's thirty five. Then he goes

1179
01:00:21,040 --> 01:00:25,920
Speaker 2: to Detroit and on June first, nineteen twenty seven, he

1180
01:00:26,000 --> 01:00:30,600
Speaker 2: kills Minnie May and a lodger in that same house.

1181
01:00:30,680 --> 01:00:31,560
Speaker 1: Missus Antwerp.

1182
01:00:31,960 --> 01:00:33,680
Speaker 2: They don't know how old she is, but she sounds

1183
01:00:33,720 --> 01:00:38,360
Speaker 2: old to me. And two days later in Chicago, he

1184
01:00:38,480 --> 01:00:44,560
Speaker 2: kills Mary Sistemassima sorry, who's twenty seven years old.

1185
01:00:44,880 --> 01:00:47,560
Speaker 1: So by this time he knows the cops are after him.

1186
01:00:47,640 --> 01:00:50,920
Speaker 2: They are he's I mean, he's just on like a

1187
01:00:51,040 --> 01:00:52,280
Speaker 2: killing spree.

1188
01:00:51,880 --> 01:00:53,920
Speaker 1: And they know it's one dude doing all of this.

1189
01:00:54,200 --> 01:00:56,920
Speaker 2: Yes, and the people, because these are a lot of

1190
01:00:56,960 --> 01:01:00,040
Speaker 2: these are boarding houses where there's other eyewitnesses in the

1191
01:01:00,120 --> 01:01:03,480
Speaker 2: border house, not just the lady who shows him the room. Sure,

1192
01:01:04,000 --> 01:01:06,640
Speaker 2: So he crosses the border up into Winnipeg to get

1193
01:01:06,680 --> 01:01:11,360
Speaker 2: away from the cops, and he rents a room there.

1194
01:01:11,840 --> 01:01:15,520
Speaker 2: On June eighth, what my birthday?

1195
01:01:15,640 --> 01:01:19,320
Speaker 1: Oh I did that at the live shows too. I

1196
01:01:19,360 --> 01:01:20,080
Speaker 1: can't help it.

1197
01:01:20,080 --> 01:01:25,320
Speaker 2: It's how can you not he actually was born I

1198
01:01:25,400 --> 01:01:30,160
Speaker 2: completely relate because Earl was born on May twelfth and

1199
01:01:30,200 --> 01:01:31,240
Speaker 2: I was born on May.

1200
01:01:31,160 --> 01:01:33,880
Speaker 1: Eleventh, so I was like, oh, day after But then yeah,

1201
01:01:34,000 --> 01:01:35,320
Speaker 1: it's him, all right.

1202
01:01:35,360 --> 01:01:38,400
Speaker 2: So he crosses the border into Winnipeg, rents a room,

1203
01:01:38,840 --> 01:01:43,320
Speaker 2: and on June eighth, he strangles fourteen year old Lola Callan,

1204
01:01:43,600 --> 01:01:47,600
Speaker 2: who is selling paper flowers door to door to help

1205
01:01:47,640 --> 01:01:52,880
Speaker 2: her her very impoverished family. He stuffs her body under

1206
01:01:52,920 --> 01:01:56,240
Speaker 2: the bed leaves that boarding house, and the next day

1207
01:01:56,880 --> 01:02:00,120
Speaker 2: he's wandering around to the same neighborhood in Winnipeg and

1208
01:02:00,160 --> 01:02:03,920
Speaker 2: he sees Emily Patterson, who's thirty five, cleaning her house,

1209
01:02:04,280 --> 01:02:09,080
Speaker 2: and he somehow gets himself inside her house. He strangles,

1210
01:02:09,840 --> 01:02:12,920
Speaker 2: he strangles her to death, rapes and mutilates her dead body,

1211
01:02:13,240 --> 01:02:17,320
Speaker 2: and stuffs her under the bed and leaves without being seen.

1212
01:02:17,880 --> 01:02:22,680
Speaker 2: So she's reported missing by her husband. And that night,

1213
01:02:23,160 --> 01:02:26,720
Speaker 2: when her husband goes to go to sleep, he kneels

1214
01:02:26,760 --> 01:02:29,600
Speaker 2: down next to the bed to pray for strength and

1215
01:02:29,640 --> 01:02:32,400
Speaker 2: to pray to find his wife. And when he goes

1216
01:02:32,440 --> 01:02:35,960
Speaker 2: to stand up, his leg catches the bedspread and he

1217
01:02:36,000 --> 01:02:38,959
Speaker 2: looks down and sees his wife's wool sweater sticking out

1218
01:02:39,280 --> 01:02:42,400
Speaker 2: from underneath the bed. So he reaches underneath it and

1219
01:02:42,440 --> 01:02:47,360
Speaker 2: touches the dead body of his dead, mutilated wife.

1220
01:02:47,480 --> 01:02:49,960
Speaker 1: Oh my god.

1221
01:02:50,040 --> 01:02:51,800
Speaker 2: If I didn't say dead so many times, that would

1222
01:02:51,800 --> 01:02:54,480
Speaker 2: have been a really well told kind of build up.

1223
01:02:55,280 --> 01:02:57,840
Speaker 1: Well, that's this podcast. I mean, that is.

1224
01:02:57,880 --> 01:03:01,280
Speaker 2: Not who we really are, deep down dead dead dead.

1225
01:03:01,840 --> 01:03:06,040
Speaker 2: So by the time mister Patterson calls the police and

1226
01:03:06,080 --> 01:03:08,760
Speaker 2: says that he has found his wife. The body of

1227
01:03:08,760 --> 01:03:14,160
Speaker 2: Lola Cowan has also been found. And the same morning

1228
01:03:14,200 --> 01:03:18,720
Speaker 2: of Missus Patterson's murder, Earl left the house, went down,

1229
01:03:18,840 --> 01:03:21,880
Speaker 2: sold his clothes at a second hand store, took the

1230
01:03:21,920 --> 01:03:25,919
Speaker 2: money that he got for those clothes, and goes down

1231
01:03:26,040 --> 01:03:29,080
Speaker 2: to a barber to get a shave. And when he

1232
01:03:29,120 --> 01:03:31,320
Speaker 2: sat in the chair, the barber had noticed that Earl

1233
01:03:31,360 --> 01:03:32,360
Speaker 2: had blood in his hair.

1234
01:03:33,320 --> 01:03:35,240
Speaker 1: So when the story of these.

1235
01:03:35,120 --> 01:03:37,720
Speaker 2: Murders comes out, the barber goes to the police and

1236
01:03:37,800 --> 01:03:42,200
Speaker 2: tells the story, gives the description, as does all of

1237
01:03:42,240 --> 01:03:45,440
Speaker 2: the people that live in the boarding house where Lola

1238
01:03:45,520 --> 01:03:48,240
Speaker 2: Cowan's body was found, because there's all kinds of people

1239
01:03:48,280 --> 01:03:52,640
Speaker 2: that saw that guy who stayed in that room. So

1240
01:03:52,800 --> 01:03:56,760
Speaker 2: at this point between the barber's description the eyewitness accounts

1241
01:03:56,760 --> 01:03:59,960
Speaker 2: from the other boarding house, Earl Nelson's likeness is distributed

1242
01:04:00,200 --> 01:04:03,480
Speaker 2: across every province and border town in Canada. And there's

1243
01:04:03,520 --> 01:04:07,320
Speaker 2: a fifteen hundred dollars reward posted for his capture. And

1244
01:04:07,360 --> 01:04:09,320
Speaker 2: Earl is arrested hopping onto a train.

1245
01:04:10,200 --> 01:04:12,040
Speaker 1: So here's the thing.

1246
01:04:12,280 --> 01:04:16,120
Speaker 2: He is a master escape artist. So once again he

1247
01:04:16,280 --> 01:04:20,439
Speaker 2: escapes from jail. Yes, he's pick he can pick any lock.

1248
01:04:20,800 --> 01:04:23,080
Speaker 2: So they had taken his shoes, socks, and belt when

1249
01:04:23,240 --> 01:04:26,080
Speaker 2: they put him into the jail cell. So he escapes

1250
01:04:26,120 --> 01:04:28,960
Speaker 2: with none of those things, and that night he finds

1251
01:04:29,000 --> 01:04:31,000
Speaker 2: a barn. He hides in the barn, and in this

1252
01:04:31,080 --> 01:04:34,320
Speaker 2: barn he finds an old, moth eaten sweater and a

1253
01:04:34,360 --> 01:04:37,600
Speaker 2: pair of ice skates. So he pulls the blades off

1254
01:04:37,640 --> 01:04:40,040
Speaker 2: the ice skates and makes the ice skates into shoes.

1255
01:04:40,120 --> 01:04:45,440
Speaker 1: Oh he does know shoes. You love it? I fucking

1256
01:04:45,560 --> 01:04:49,200
Speaker 1: love it? So because he's crazy, So.

1257
01:04:49,280 --> 01:04:51,800
Speaker 2: Then he goes the next morning, he leaves that barn

1258
01:04:52,080 --> 01:04:54,880
Speaker 2: and just goes fucking walking out, and he ends up

1259
01:04:54,880 --> 01:04:58,360
Speaker 2: bubbing a cigarette from a guy and chatting with him

1260
01:04:58,360 --> 01:05:00,640
Speaker 2: for a while because he doesn't think he can get

1261
01:05:00,640 --> 01:05:03,280
Speaker 2: caught because he's now been murdering women for a fucking

1262
01:05:03,400 --> 01:05:07,800
Speaker 2: year straight. And he's standing around smoking and chatting in

1263
01:05:07,880 --> 01:05:11,240
Speaker 2: ice skate shoes, and the guy's like, what up crazy

1264
01:05:11,360 --> 01:05:12,200
Speaker 2: and calls the cop.

1265
01:05:13,560 --> 01:05:17,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, can you just what if someone you knew just

1266
01:05:18,000 --> 01:05:20,480
Speaker 1: showed up in ice skate shoes to a.

1267
01:05:20,360 --> 01:05:23,960
Speaker 2: Party also where it was like he pulls the blades out,

1268
01:05:24,040 --> 01:05:25,200
Speaker 2: so was he walking on?

1269
01:05:25,680 --> 01:05:26,480
Speaker 1: Was still there?

1270
01:05:26,560 --> 01:05:29,440
Speaker 2: Like that one rim down at the bottom.

1271
01:05:29,120 --> 01:05:32,120
Speaker 1: And there were not There's no way there were his size. Yeah, like,

1272
01:05:32,160 --> 01:05:34,200
Speaker 1: what are the chances of finding like a size ten

1273
01:05:34,640 --> 01:05:35,320
Speaker 1: fucking ice.

1274
01:05:35,160 --> 01:05:37,840
Speaker 2: Skates shoes, perfect ice skate shoes, just.

1275
01:05:37,800 --> 01:05:39,960
Speaker 1: To I just want to picture a friend clomping over.

1276
01:05:40,360 --> 01:05:44,840
Speaker 2: He's just he's he's like walking down a gravel road

1277
01:05:44,880 --> 01:05:45,840
Speaker 2: in ice skates shoes.

1278
01:05:46,120 --> 01:05:49,560
Speaker 1: Perfect. Earl, you fucking idiot. All right, become an accountant,

1279
01:05:49,600 --> 01:05:51,280
Speaker 1: you dumb dumb ass.

1280
01:05:52,120 --> 01:05:58,120
Speaker 2: So so that this smoking guy, of course alerts the authorities.

1281
01:05:58,160 --> 01:06:03,320
Speaker 2: Earl's recaptured, He's taken back into c he's tried, he's,

1282
01:06:03,520 --> 01:06:06,960
Speaker 2: after less than an hour of deliberation, convicted of Emily

1283
01:06:07,040 --> 01:06:10,280
Speaker 2: Patterson and Lola Cowan's murders, and he's sentenced to hang

1284
01:06:10,320 --> 01:06:14,280
Speaker 2: in Winnipeg on January thirteenth, nineteen twenty eight. One report

1285
01:06:14,320 --> 01:06:18,920
Speaker 2: said he struggled for eleven minutes before he died with

1286
01:06:19,000 --> 01:06:22,120
Speaker 2: that hanging, but then another said he died instantaneously, and

1287
01:06:22,160 --> 01:06:26,080
Speaker 2: then made a very specific note of saying, how how

1288
01:06:26,320 --> 01:06:29,400
Speaker 2: why people would die take too long to die if

1289
01:06:29,400 --> 01:06:30,360
Speaker 2: the rope was too short.

1290
01:06:30,440 --> 01:06:32,520
Speaker 1: I think they would do that a lot for people

1291
01:06:32,560 --> 01:06:35,960
Speaker 1: they wanted to suffer, really, because what you want to happen.

1292
01:06:36,000 --> 01:06:38,520
Speaker 1: When you hang someone is for their neck to break. Yeah,

1293
01:06:38,600 --> 01:06:42,160
Speaker 1: But if it's too short, right and they fall, their

1294
01:06:42,200 --> 01:06:45,400
Speaker 1: neck doesn't break. They just slowly fucking choke today. Yeah

1295
01:06:45,560 --> 01:06:49,600
Speaker 1: sounds horrifying. Yeah, either way, or if it's too long,

1296
01:06:49,800 --> 01:06:51,680
Speaker 1: it's They're like, the snap doesn't happen.

1297
01:06:51,840 --> 01:06:55,640
Speaker 2: And this guy, by the time they catch him and

1298
01:06:55,720 --> 01:06:59,320
Speaker 2: know who he is and what his history is, the

1299
01:06:59,760 --> 01:07:04,080
Speaker 2: Dark Strangler Gorilla Killer is they're like, I don't know,

1300
01:07:04,520 --> 01:07:06,120
Speaker 2: maybe make that thing seven feet long.

1301
01:07:06,160 --> 01:07:08,360
Speaker 1: Do you know they did that in Nurrenberg when they

1302
01:07:09,040 --> 01:07:13,000
Speaker 1: killed a bunch of the x Nazis. They made they

1303
01:07:13,000 --> 01:07:15,600
Speaker 1: gave him the long rope special gave some of them.

1304
01:07:15,760 --> 01:07:19,000
Speaker 1: They purposely gave some, you know, fifteen minutes of choking

1305
01:07:19,040 --> 01:07:24,200
Speaker 1: to death. Yeah. I mean I watched Nurrenberg.

1306
01:07:25,440 --> 01:07:28,200
Speaker 2: And on your your Vince's first day, her first day,

1307
01:07:28,320 --> 01:07:28,760
Speaker 2: I knew it.

1308
01:07:29,000 --> 01:07:30,439
Speaker 1: I knew you too. Were ruy no good.

1309
01:07:33,040 --> 01:07:36,120
Speaker 2: Earl is suspected of more murders that didn't fit the

1310
01:07:36,120 --> 01:07:39,080
Speaker 2: Gorilla Killer Dark Strangler m O because of those two

1311
01:07:39,800 --> 01:07:42,880
Speaker 2: cooling off periods. So after his first two murders, there

1312
01:07:42,880 --> 01:07:45,919
Speaker 2: were three months before that's free started, and they think

1313
01:07:45,960 --> 01:07:49,160
Speaker 2: that he killed other women just not either not old

1314
01:07:49,680 --> 01:07:51,960
Speaker 2: or not landladies or not strangled.

1315
01:07:52,040 --> 01:07:54,560
Speaker 1: I'm drying to know what he looks like, what you

1316
01:07:54,880 --> 01:07:56,080
Speaker 1: personality was like.

1317
01:07:56,400 --> 01:07:58,920
Speaker 2: They just said he was scary. His family members were

1318
01:07:58,920 --> 01:08:01,959
Speaker 2: scared of him, and that that aunt that he would

1319
01:08:02,000 --> 01:08:04,680
Speaker 2: go back and live with. They were like, they said,

1320
01:08:04,680 --> 01:08:06,920
Speaker 2: he was like a big kid, and he was a

1321
01:08:06,920 --> 01:08:09,520
Speaker 2: big violent kid, so he kind of couldn't be reasoned with,

1322
01:08:09,960 --> 01:08:12,200
Speaker 2: so they just did whatever he wanted and hoped he

1323
01:08:12,200 --> 01:08:16,080
Speaker 2: would leave Jesus, was what the ant said. So the

1324
01:08:16,240 --> 01:08:18,280
Speaker 2: family was just totally scared of him. So apparently he

1325
01:08:18,320 --> 01:08:22,280
Speaker 2: was just super violent and weird as fuck. And there

1326
01:08:22,360 --> 01:08:24,639
Speaker 2: was actually a really good story of the.

1327
01:08:24,600 --> 01:08:26,160
Speaker 1: Ant that time.

1328
01:08:26,200 --> 01:08:31,360
Speaker 2: When he got out of jail, escaped from Napa State

1329
01:08:31,560 --> 01:08:35,679
Speaker 2: Mental Hospital, he showed up at her window one night

1330
01:08:35,760 --> 01:08:38,240
Speaker 2: as it was raining, and she said he turned she

1331
01:08:38,360 --> 01:08:41,880
Speaker 2: turned around and saw, she said, his eyes were black

1332
01:08:42,400 --> 01:08:44,160
Speaker 2: and he had a really weird hat on, and he

1333
01:08:44,200 --> 01:08:46,200
Speaker 2: was just staring through the window in the rain, and

1334
01:08:46,240 --> 01:08:48,920
Speaker 2: it scared the living shit out of her. So she

1335
01:08:49,040 --> 01:08:51,679
Speaker 2: let him in, but she basically convinced him, you better

1336
01:08:51,760 --> 01:08:53,559
Speaker 2: leave because they're going to come here first to look

1337
01:08:53,600 --> 01:08:55,559
Speaker 2: for you, and she just got him to leave as

1338
01:08:55,600 --> 01:08:56,320
Speaker 2: soon as possible.

1339
01:08:56,360 --> 01:08:59,160
Speaker 1: Can you imagine, like it scared her, and then even

1340
01:08:59,200 --> 01:09:02,000
Speaker 1: when she realized she knew it was, she was still

1341
01:09:02,040 --> 01:09:04,200
Speaker 1: scared of of her fucking mind. It's like, oh, okay,

1342
01:09:04,240 --> 01:09:08,040
Speaker 1: it's just you. Yeah, and it's like, oh fuck, it's you. Yeah,

1343
01:09:08,320 --> 01:09:10,120
Speaker 1: oh yeah, okay. Yeah.

1344
01:09:10,160 --> 01:09:12,960
Speaker 2: So he's could possibly I think they said between twenty

1345
01:09:13,000 --> 01:09:16,920
Speaker 2: and twenty six confirmed victims, but they think there could

1346
01:09:16,920 --> 01:09:20,120
Speaker 2: be many more because he was also all across the

1347
01:09:20,240 --> 01:09:24,800
Speaker 2: nation and up into Canada. And Harold Scheckter, who's wrote

1348
01:09:24,920 --> 01:09:28,280
Speaker 2: written so many great true crime books. There's a book

1349
01:09:28,320 --> 01:09:31,160
Speaker 2: he wrote called Beastial that he where he talks about

1350
01:09:31,840 --> 01:09:35,960
Speaker 2: Earl Wow, Earl Leonard Nelson, the gorilla killer.

1351
01:09:36,080 --> 01:09:39,120
Speaker 1: Amazing. I've never fucking heard of that me either, And

1352
01:09:39,120 --> 01:09:42,840
Speaker 1: that's huge. Yeah, the first sexual serial killer.

1353
01:09:43,000 --> 01:09:47,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean in America, right, Okay, is just because

1354
01:09:47,040 --> 01:09:48,679
Speaker 2: I thought the same thing where there was that guy

1355
01:09:49,160 --> 01:09:52,720
Speaker 2: Peter Curtin in Germany. There's a couple other ones, but

1356
01:09:53,000 --> 01:09:55,360
Speaker 2: this guy was like the first one they think they

1357
01:09:55,479 --> 01:09:59,960
Speaker 2: know of in America. That's a lot of fucking people, yeah, dude,

1358
01:10:00,080 --> 01:10:02,599
Speaker 2: a lot of old ladies just trying to rent a room.

1359
01:10:02,439 --> 01:10:14,760
Speaker 1: Oh man. Oh well, thank you, no, thank you, and

1360
01:10:14,800 --> 01:10:18,320
Speaker 1: we're back, Karen. Any updates on this awful story, there are.

1361
01:10:18,800 --> 01:10:21,679
Speaker 2: First of all, the update is skate shoes was from

1362
01:10:21,680 --> 01:10:26,519
Speaker 2: that guy? Yeah, it's one of my favorite details of

1363
01:10:26,560 --> 01:10:32,639
Speaker 2: any case is escaping, being naked, running and then making

1364
01:10:32,800 --> 01:10:38,160
Speaker 2: skates out of like stealing ice skates from somewhere, making

1365
01:10:38,240 --> 01:10:42,360
Speaker 2: skate shoes. Yeah, it's so funny. I mean, it's just insane.

1366
01:10:42,600 --> 01:10:46,120
Speaker 2: So in twenty twenty two, author Alvin Esau wrote a

1367
01:10:46,120 --> 01:10:48,760
Speaker 2: book about this case and the various political and professional

1368
01:10:48,840 --> 01:10:52,120
Speaker 2: issues that arose in the pre trial, the trial, and

1369
01:10:52,200 --> 01:10:55,599
Speaker 2: the post trial periods, and it spotlights the clash between

1370
01:10:55,640 --> 01:11:00,240
Speaker 2: Earl Nelson's court appointed defense attorney and psychiatrist in the

1371
01:11:00,280 --> 01:11:04,360
Speaker 2: role of Canada's so called official hangman. It also highlights

1372
01:11:04,360 --> 01:11:07,920
Speaker 2: issues about the social construction of serial killers, you know,

1373
01:11:08,000 --> 01:11:12,400
Speaker 2: debates about capital punishment, psychopathy, the scope of the insanity defense,

1374
01:11:13,000 --> 01:11:17,080
Speaker 2: the effect of pre trial publicity and a trial being

1375
01:11:17,240 --> 01:11:21,920
Speaker 2: quote unquote public entertainment, the last which that sounds fascinating.

1376
01:11:21,960 --> 01:11:24,840
Speaker 2: I mean, like what a book that digs into all

1377
01:11:24,880 --> 01:11:28,120
Speaker 2: those things that basically so many true crime podcasts talk

1378
01:11:28,160 --> 01:11:32,719
Speaker 2: about totally at the time Earl Leonard Nelson was considered

1379
01:11:32,760 --> 01:11:37,400
Speaker 2: the deadliest American serial killer. He has since been dethroned

1380
01:11:37,680 --> 01:11:41,880
Speaker 2: by the horrifying Sam Little Sam Littell got covered in

1381
01:11:41,920 --> 01:11:43,360
Speaker 2: episode one sixty seven.

1382
01:11:43,760 --> 01:11:47,519
Speaker 1: But yeah, I mean, that's such a huge case and

1383
01:11:47,600 --> 01:11:51,040
Speaker 1: so many insights for something that I haven't heard about

1384
01:11:51,080 --> 01:11:53,880
Speaker 1: it since then, since you covered it. So let's head

1385
01:11:53,880 --> 01:11:56,320
Speaker 1: back in, guys and listen to our good things of

1386
01:11:56,400 --> 01:12:03,200
Speaker 1: the week. Should we say a thing we like? Yeah,

1387
01:12:03,280 --> 01:12:03,960
Speaker 1: let me think if I.

1388
01:12:03,840 --> 01:12:06,360
Speaker 2: Have any Didn't you say you were watching a show

1389
01:12:06,400 --> 01:12:06,880
Speaker 2: you really like?

1390
01:12:06,920 --> 01:12:09,439
Speaker 1: Yeah, but I can't find the name of it. Was

1391
01:12:09,439 --> 01:12:14,080
Speaker 1: it fiction or non fiction? It was nonfiction. It was

1392
01:12:14,240 --> 01:12:18,040
Speaker 1: like different kind of deaths. It's really cool, but I

1393
01:12:18,080 --> 01:12:20,559
Speaker 1: can't remember. I'll find out for next week. Okay, what

1394
01:12:20,600 --> 01:12:23,040
Speaker 1: about you? You say something and I'll think of something.

1395
01:12:23,040 --> 01:12:30,280
Speaker 2: Oh okay, fuck, well, I'll say this. When we were

1396
01:12:30,320 --> 01:12:32,280
Speaker 2: in Portland, I got to hang out with my friend Stacy,

1397
01:12:32,320 --> 01:12:35,840
Speaker 2: who you met and who was the greatest. She runs

1398
01:12:35,920 --> 01:12:39,280
Speaker 2: a place called Curious Comedy Theater in Portland. If you

1399
01:12:39,360 --> 01:12:43,200
Speaker 2: live there, they have improv shows there, they have stand

1400
01:12:43,240 --> 01:12:46,000
Speaker 2: up shows there. Lots of cool stand ups perform there.

1401
01:12:46,000 --> 01:12:47,599
Speaker 2: I think Ron Lynch is going to be their next

1402
01:12:48,240 --> 01:12:50,720
Speaker 2: She books really awesome people and we just had a

1403
01:12:50,760 --> 01:12:55,559
Speaker 2: really great time hanging out and it made my visit

1404
01:12:55,600 --> 01:12:59,800
Speaker 2: in Portland. It's just nice to have friends and that.

1405
01:13:00,040 --> 01:13:03,640
Speaker 2: And Stacy and my friend Jason Lopez, who I have

1406
01:13:03,760 --> 01:13:05,360
Speaker 2: known since I was twenty. We used to work at

1407
01:13:05,360 --> 01:13:08,840
Speaker 2: the Gap together. We used to this in the Castro together.

1408
01:13:08,960 --> 01:13:11,320
Speaker 2: He's one of my oldest friends and he was there

1409
01:13:12,240 --> 01:13:12,760
Speaker 2: both nights.

1410
01:13:12,960 --> 01:13:16,160
Speaker 1: Actually I love that. Well, I can't, Okay, Well, I

1411
01:13:16,200 --> 01:13:18,320
Speaker 1: guess mine is similar in that, like, this is the

1412
01:13:18,320 --> 01:13:22,040
Speaker 1: first time Vince came with me on a weekend tour

1413
01:13:22,320 --> 01:13:26,320
Speaker 1: and it was just like it just meant so much

1414
01:13:26,360 --> 01:13:28,479
Speaker 1: to me to have him there and have his support

1415
01:13:28,680 --> 01:13:31,840
Speaker 1: and just like hang out with him and fuck, man,

1416
01:13:31,920 --> 01:13:34,840
Speaker 1: I'm so I am just blown away by him and

1417
01:13:34,880 --> 01:13:36,920
Speaker 1: I just want him to come with us all the time,

1418
01:13:36,960 --> 01:13:38,680
Speaker 1: and he has to come with us. It was so

1419
01:13:38,760 --> 01:13:41,439
Speaker 1: great and I just love having him around. I do

1420
01:13:41,439 --> 01:13:45,320
Speaker 1: too my husband. I probably should, but it was a

1421
01:13:45,360 --> 01:13:47,280
Speaker 1: really awesome experience having him there. And you know how

1422
01:13:47,320 --> 01:13:49,439
Speaker 1: much fucking traveling anxiety I have and how much I

1423
01:13:49,439 --> 01:13:51,599
Speaker 1: hate leaving the house and how scared I get and

1424
01:13:51,640 --> 01:13:54,639
Speaker 1: how worried I get and having him there just kind

1425
01:13:54,640 --> 01:13:57,600
Speaker 1: of alleviated all of it, except missing the cats, but

1426
01:13:58,560 --> 01:14:01,160
Speaker 1: it alleviated all all of it, and it made it

1427
01:14:01,200 --> 01:14:03,720
Speaker 1: such a fun time for me, and instead of like

1428
01:14:03,840 --> 01:14:05,000
Speaker 1: an anxious, scary time.

1429
01:14:05,160 --> 01:14:07,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, you were free to kind of just have your

1430
01:14:07,200 --> 01:14:11,800
Speaker 2: fun and do it instead of I think. I mean,

1431
01:14:11,840 --> 01:14:15,000
Speaker 2: I'm it's not like you seemed insanely different than any

1432
01:14:15,000 --> 01:14:17,519
Speaker 2: other time, but but it is nice to know that

1433
01:14:17,560 --> 01:14:18,679
Speaker 2: then you.

1434
01:14:18,600 --> 01:14:20,960
Speaker 1: Don't have all those worries on your shoulders. You can

1435
01:14:21,080 --> 01:14:23,720
Speaker 1: just kind of have fun. Yeah, it was nice. I mean, yes,

1436
01:14:23,760 --> 01:14:27,080
Speaker 1: I'm codependent, but so what it works for me.

1437
01:14:27,400 --> 01:14:29,320
Speaker 2: Lots of people are also. That's not codependent.

1438
01:14:29,400 --> 01:14:31,519
Speaker 1: You just have a great husband that you're grateful for.

1439
01:14:31,640 --> 01:14:35,120
Speaker 1: My therapist says, it's not codependency, it's interdependency, and if

1440
01:14:35,160 --> 01:14:36,360
Speaker 1: it works for you, it's fine.

1441
01:14:36,640 --> 01:14:40,200
Speaker 2: I like interdependency nice. I want to slice of inderdependency.

1442
01:14:40,200 --> 01:14:42,960
Speaker 1: Interdependency is good. Yeah, it's it's lovely.

1443
01:14:43,080 --> 01:14:46,799
Speaker 2: And he's I mean, he's the best, he really is. Yeah,

1444
01:14:46,920 --> 01:14:53,000
Speaker 2: he's I feel similar to him that you do.

1445
01:14:53,080 --> 01:14:54,760
Speaker 1: I might as well tell you. Now, you guys get

1446
01:14:54,760 --> 01:14:56,280
Speaker 1: along so well, it's cool to go in the other

1447
01:14:56,360 --> 01:14:58,120
Speaker 1: room and to get ready and hear you guys cracking up,

1448
01:14:58,160 --> 01:14:59,680
Speaker 1: but yes, I did it well.

1449
01:14:59,680 --> 01:15:02,000
Speaker 2: Also, he just knows his shit too. He's has so

1450
01:15:02,080 --> 01:15:07,480
Speaker 2: much experience in performing. He has experience in merch sales,

1451
01:15:07,240 --> 01:15:08,679
Speaker 2: experience and everything.

1452
01:15:09,200 --> 01:15:12,519
Speaker 1: He's smart. Vince abral he's the He's got a podcast

1453
01:15:12,520 --> 01:15:14,720
Speaker 1: called We Watch Wrestling. Yeah, I get into it.

1454
01:15:14,720 --> 01:15:19,760
Speaker 2: If you WoT wrestling or want to yay yaykappy.

1455
01:15:20,280 --> 01:15:24,439
Speaker 1: That's a good one. Other people, We like people.

1456
01:15:25,520 --> 01:15:27,880
Speaker 2: And thank you to everyone who came to those Portland shows.

1457
01:15:27,880 --> 01:15:29,840
Speaker 2: We had such a great time. We got so many

1458
01:15:29,880 --> 01:15:32,719
Speaker 2: good presents. Thank you for coming to say hi after.

1459
01:15:33,000 --> 01:15:37,439
Speaker 1: Could we say that someone made a catnip toys of

1460
01:15:37,640 --> 01:15:41,080
Speaker 1: fucking a bunch of serial killers. Yes, and they're incredible

1461
01:15:41,080 --> 01:15:42,640
Speaker 1: one and put them on our Instagram And I'm not

1462
01:15:42,720 --> 01:15:45,240
Speaker 1: giving them of the cats because they're just so fucking cool. Yeah,

1463
01:15:45,240 --> 01:15:48,920
Speaker 1: those are keepers can't get. Yeah, they're incredible. I think

1464
01:15:48,960 --> 01:15:50,240
Speaker 1: that it's not the same person.

1465
01:15:50,280 --> 01:15:52,760
Speaker 2: But I also got a couple of dog toys that

1466
01:15:52,800 --> 01:15:56,360
Speaker 2: were they were slip little mini slippers, a Neon green

1467
01:15:56,400 --> 01:15:58,639
Speaker 2: mini slipper and a hot pink and George and Frank

1468
01:15:58,680 --> 01:16:00,000
Speaker 2: have already destroyed both of them.

1469
01:16:00,520 --> 01:16:03,160
Speaker 1: They were very excited to get them. Yeah, I love it.

1470
01:16:03,200 --> 01:16:09,599
Speaker 1: I am okay, we're back. It's so funny to hear

1471
01:16:09,640 --> 01:16:11,760
Speaker 1: me talk about how glad I was to have Vince there,

1472
01:16:11,840 --> 01:16:14,800
Speaker 1: but just like he never didn't come again to a

1473
01:16:14,880 --> 01:16:17,880
Speaker 1: live show. Yeah, he got hired on as part of

1474
01:16:17,920 --> 01:16:20,400
Speaker 1: the staff, and he'll be with me this tour or two,

1475
01:16:20,479 --> 01:16:22,800
Speaker 1: not as staff, thank god, as my husband, which is

1476
01:16:22,960 --> 01:16:26,920
Speaker 1: just a much better place mentally for both of us

1477
01:16:26,920 --> 01:16:29,120
Speaker 1: to be. So I'm just happy to have him back

1478
01:16:29,120 --> 01:16:33,640
Speaker 1: there hanging out with me, and yeah, I can't go

1479
01:16:33,720 --> 01:16:37,560
Speaker 1: without him. He's my emotional support husband. Yeah, it's nice.

1480
01:16:38,080 --> 01:16:40,720
Speaker 2: I like the fact that you were trying to think

1481
01:16:40,760 --> 01:16:42,960
Speaker 2: of good things and you're like, I can't remember the name.

1482
01:16:42,840 --> 01:16:43,240
Speaker 1: Of the show.

1483
01:16:43,280 --> 01:16:47,320
Speaker 2: I like, it's just like we're really trying to turn

1484
01:16:47,360 --> 01:16:49,880
Speaker 2: the end of every episode so nobody feels bad, and

1485
01:16:49,920 --> 01:16:51,960
Speaker 2: it's just like, sometimes it's too hard to do.

1486
01:16:52,160 --> 01:16:55,200
Speaker 1: What could it be? It's nonfiction with different kinds of death.

1487
01:16:55,320 --> 01:16:57,000
Speaker 1: What on earth could it be?

1488
01:16:57,520 --> 01:17:00,639
Speaker 2: Literally all of the programming on the Eye D channel

1489
01:17:00,760 --> 01:17:05,920
Speaker 2: that's right, and everything anything on these days, every single channel.

1490
01:17:06,520 --> 01:17:09,719
Speaker 2: So this episode was originally titled Trust Issues and Ice

1491
01:17:09,760 --> 01:17:10,559
Speaker 2: Skate Shoes.

1492
01:17:10,760 --> 01:17:12,280
Speaker 1: It's a pretty good one. But if we were naming

1493
01:17:12,280 --> 01:17:14,080
Speaker 1: it today, maybe we would call it.

1494
01:17:14,439 --> 01:17:18,400
Speaker 2: Like Pitbull because we were going on to our internationally

1495
01:17:18,400 --> 01:17:19,880
Speaker 2: and we just got to announce that.

1496
01:17:20,120 --> 01:17:23,880
Speaker 1: So and then we could do hard Stock of course,

1497
01:17:23,960 --> 01:17:27,719
Speaker 1: which is my last name. If you're wrong in produce,

1498
01:17:27,760 --> 01:17:29,840
Speaker 1: you're slurring and non myth.

1499
01:17:30,640 --> 01:17:32,680
Speaker 2: Or we could do yes, I'm codependent, which is the

1500
01:17:32,720 --> 01:17:34,759
Speaker 2: whole discussion about what you just discussed.

1501
01:17:35,120 --> 01:17:39,280
Speaker 1: Your husband still am and I'm proud of it, proud

1502
01:17:39,320 --> 01:17:41,439
Speaker 1: of it. Yeah, all right, Well, thank you guys so

1503
01:17:41,479 --> 01:17:43,920
Speaker 1: much for listening to this episode of rewind. We're gonna

1504
01:17:44,000 --> 01:17:51,040
Speaker 1: let us back then say goodbye. Oh you guys are

1505
01:17:51,080 --> 01:17:52,920
Speaker 1: the greatest. Yes, thank you so much, Thank you so

1506
01:17:53,000 --> 01:17:55,479
Speaker 1: much for listening and everything. And you're the best, and

1507
01:17:55,520 --> 01:18:00,240
Speaker 1: stay sexy and don't get murdered. Bye. Yeah,