1 00:00:06,080 --> 00:00:06,840 Speaker 1: What come Antrilliance. 2 00:00:06,840 --> 00:00:12,320 Speaker 2: I'm Joel Webber and I'm Eric bel Cheers. 3 00:00:13,200 --> 00:00:17,319 Speaker 3: Eric, you're in London this week and I was just there. 4 00:00:17,360 --> 00:00:20,079 Speaker 3: But we're going to have an episode where we're going 5 00:00:20,160 --> 00:00:22,800 Speaker 3: to talk about one of the big themes I think 6 00:00:22,880 --> 00:00:26,280 Speaker 3: in Europe in the world right now. But maybe you've 7 00:00:26,320 --> 00:00:29,760 Speaker 3: noticed Donald Trump, president of the US, changing a few 8 00:00:29,760 --> 00:00:34,839 Speaker 3: things in a strategic importance and how Europe defends itself 9 00:00:35,560 --> 00:00:38,120 Speaker 3: is going to be a really interesting area to watch. 10 00:00:38,720 --> 00:00:41,959 Speaker 3: NATO obviously the bedrock of sort of this transit Atlantic 11 00:00:42,280 --> 00:00:46,440 Speaker 3: alliance that is really created stability, geopolitical stability in the 12 00:00:46,479 --> 00:00:50,240 Speaker 3: world for sixty plus years, but there's some big questions 13 00:00:50,280 --> 00:00:53,920 Speaker 3: about what Europe can do on its own. And of 14 00:00:53,960 --> 00:00:59,600 Speaker 3: course there's an ETF specifically geared at defense in Europe 15 00:01:00,000 --> 00:01:00,680 Speaker 3: that's that product. 16 00:01:01,080 --> 00:01:04,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a really great product story and marketplace story 17 00:01:04,920 --> 00:01:08,399 Speaker 2: as well, because when you have thematic ETFs, sometimes you 18 00:01:08,400 --> 00:01:10,039 Speaker 2: don't know when your number is going to come up. 19 00:01:10,520 --> 00:01:13,679 Speaker 2: And European defense, I mean almost seems like an oxymoron, 20 00:01:13,680 --> 00:01:15,840 Speaker 2: not quite that far, but it was like, why would 21 00:01:15,840 --> 00:01:16,240 Speaker 2: I buy that? 22 00:01:16,440 --> 00:01:16,600 Speaker 1: Right? 23 00:01:16,760 --> 00:01:19,440 Speaker 2: All of a sudden, it's a hot area because they're 24 00:01:19,480 --> 00:01:23,760 Speaker 2: scrambling to get more better defense, and so all that 25 00:01:23,880 --> 00:01:26,840 Speaker 2: money is people front running the stocks. So there's an 26 00:01:26,840 --> 00:01:29,360 Speaker 2: ETF in the United States from Tuttle that already has 27 00:01:29,360 --> 00:01:32,240 Speaker 2: close to a billion dollars within a year, which is unbelievable. 28 00:01:33,000 --> 00:01:34,920 Speaker 2: And then I was in Paris and we had a 29 00:01:35,000 --> 00:01:38,040 Speaker 2: round table with some French issuers and they were all 30 00:01:38,040 --> 00:01:42,000 Speaker 2: talking about this mad scramble to launch homegrown European defense 31 00:01:42,040 --> 00:01:44,360 Speaker 2: ETF because the one here is a big hit. So 32 00:01:44,720 --> 00:01:48,040 Speaker 2: kind of reminds me of like couple themes in years 33 00:01:48,080 --> 00:01:51,080 Speaker 2: past where something would happen in the news and the 34 00:01:51,120 --> 00:01:54,200 Speaker 2: whole industry would just like scramble to meet the moment. 35 00:01:54,240 --> 00:01:55,640 Speaker 2: And that's what you have here with this. 36 00:01:56,080 --> 00:02:00,200 Speaker 3: And joining us to talk through European Defense ETFs. 37 00:02:00,040 --> 00:02:03,080 Speaker 1: It's going to be Henry Jim, an ETF analyst with. 38 00:02:03,040 --> 00:02:09,760 Speaker 3: Bloomberg Intelligence, this time on trillions Defense Defense. 39 00:02:12,840 --> 00:02:14,239 Speaker 1: Henry, welcome back to Trillions. 40 00:02:14,639 --> 00:02:15,919 Speaker 4: Thank you, great to be here. 41 00:02:16,000 --> 00:02:18,360 Speaker 1: Okay, so give us a vibe check. 42 00:02:18,760 --> 00:02:23,400 Speaker 3: How interesting is this space having you know, kind of 43 00:02:23,440 --> 00:02:24,960 Speaker 3: been a sleepy one for a long time. 44 00:02:26,240 --> 00:02:28,560 Speaker 4: Well, I don't know about sleepy. It just sort of 45 00:02:28,600 --> 00:02:31,440 Speaker 4: like jumped onto the stage. I've been in ETS for 46 00:02:31,520 --> 00:02:33,440 Speaker 4: a couple of decades. Now, this is probably one of 47 00:02:33,480 --> 00:02:37,840 Speaker 4: the biggest launches I've seen. The product question is the Woods' 48 00:02:37,919 --> 00:02:43,320 Speaker 4: Tree European Defense ETF WDF. It launched in March and 49 00:02:43,320 --> 00:02:45,840 Speaker 4: it's already gathered two point five billion euros. That's almost 50 00:02:45,919 --> 00:02:49,239 Speaker 4: three billion dollars, which I've never seen anything here in 51 00:02:49,280 --> 00:02:50,600 Speaker 4: Europe since I've been covering it. 52 00:02:51,200 --> 00:02:54,320 Speaker 2: That's US equivalent like ten billion. I mean, that's such 53 00:02:54,680 --> 00:02:58,840 Speaker 2: a big amount of money for that. And obviously Trump 54 00:02:58,880 --> 00:03:02,160 Speaker 2: was elected in jet in November, he started to rough 55 00:03:02,200 --> 00:03:04,399 Speaker 2: things up on the NATO front like a couple months. 56 00:03:04,200 --> 00:03:06,880 Speaker 1: After having already done that in his first term. 57 00:03:07,040 --> 00:03:10,760 Speaker 2: True, well, what did the Wisdom Tree file right before 58 00:03:10,760 --> 00:03:13,280 Speaker 2: he was How did like, did they foresee this? You think? 59 00:03:13,680 --> 00:03:15,840 Speaker 4: I'm sure they did. I mean, I don't know exact 60 00:03:15,880 --> 00:03:18,000 Speaker 4: timeline when they filed, but it takes about three to 61 00:03:18,120 --> 00:03:20,440 Speaker 4: four months launch. So if they launched in March, they 62 00:03:20,480 --> 00:03:22,560 Speaker 4: must have filed like back in November. 63 00:03:22,200 --> 00:03:24,840 Speaker 2: Probably right when he won. They launched, and they had 64 00:03:24,840 --> 00:03:28,880 Speaker 2: the they have that market to themselves basically or uh kind. 65 00:03:28,600 --> 00:03:32,040 Speaker 4: Of no, as soon as they launched, I think within 66 00:03:32,160 --> 00:03:35,520 Speaker 4: the the first month or so. The first ones came 67 00:03:35,800 --> 00:03:39,640 Speaker 4: right after them. So now we have seven seven European 68 00:03:39,680 --> 00:03:42,480 Speaker 4: defense ETFs in less than two and a half months. 69 00:03:42,960 --> 00:03:47,120 Speaker 1: So just let's stick with w DEF for a moment. 70 00:03:47,200 --> 00:03:50,480 Speaker 3: What did you know, What were they able to put 71 00:03:50,520 --> 00:03:52,240 Speaker 3: in this fund that got people excited? 72 00:03:53,880 --> 00:03:58,040 Speaker 4: Oh well, it's an index tracker. To be honest, I 73 00:03:58,040 --> 00:03:59,960 Speaker 4: don't think it's exactly what they put into it. It's 74 00:04:00,080 --> 00:04:06,160 Speaker 4: still exposure. But the spolure looks pretty equitable, if not diversified. 75 00:04:06,280 --> 00:04:08,600 Speaker 4: You got like the top holding is a German company 76 00:04:08,600 --> 00:04:14,920 Speaker 4: that specialized in contract defense contracting. The top country represented France, 77 00:04:17,240 --> 00:04:20,560 Speaker 4: the second is UK and the second top holding is 78 00:04:20,600 --> 00:04:24,000 Speaker 4: the Italian company called Leernardo SPA, also one of the 79 00:04:24,040 --> 00:04:28,839 Speaker 4: world's largest defense contractors. So actually I think it's just exposure, 80 00:04:29,080 --> 00:04:32,119 Speaker 4: not particularly what it is. They just had a whole 81 00:04:32,200 --> 00:04:36,719 Speaker 4: smattering of European defense companies and it's a it's self interingxing, 82 00:04:36,760 --> 00:04:38,719 Speaker 4: so they developed their own deck so they had control 83 00:04:38,760 --> 00:04:40,719 Speaker 4: over what goes in at any time as well. 84 00:04:41,120 --> 00:04:43,880 Speaker 3: So, Eric, when you think about a category like this 85 00:04:43,960 --> 00:04:46,280 Speaker 3: and you have an early mover like this, and how 86 00:04:46,320 --> 00:04:48,800 Speaker 3: are people going to try and distinguish their products if 87 00:04:48,800 --> 00:04:52,400 Speaker 3: there's going to be you know, seven plus of these things. 88 00:04:52,760 --> 00:04:54,760 Speaker 2: Yeah, they'll they'll mix it up a little bit. You 89 00:04:54,760 --> 00:04:58,120 Speaker 2: see some names in most of them. I mean, I'll 90 00:04:58,120 --> 00:05:00,599 Speaker 2: be honest, I don't recognize a lot of these European names. 91 00:05:00,600 --> 00:05:02,640 Speaker 2: I mean, the one had the name SPA and I 92 00:05:02,680 --> 00:05:06,080 Speaker 2: thought it was like for vacations, but apparently that's what's 93 00:05:06,120 --> 00:05:11,360 Speaker 2: that Italian word for what for ink? Yeah, anyway, I'm 94 00:05:11,400 --> 00:05:13,600 Speaker 2: way out on my def's child. But anyway, these companies 95 00:05:13,640 --> 00:05:16,680 Speaker 2: are within this theme. Some will equal weight it, some 96 00:05:16,680 --> 00:05:19,920 Speaker 2: will modify equal weight it. That will change the volatility. 97 00:05:20,279 --> 00:05:22,039 Speaker 2: Some will be cheaper, some came on try to be 98 00:05:22,040 --> 00:05:24,359 Speaker 2: able to will be the low cost one. It's like 99 00:05:24,480 --> 00:05:26,480 Speaker 2: the way a category plays out over the course of 100 00:05:26,520 --> 00:05:29,200 Speaker 2: like three years. This category played out in the course 101 00:05:29,240 --> 00:05:32,320 Speaker 2: of like three months, with everybody trying to angle a 102 00:05:32,320 --> 00:05:35,719 Speaker 2: little differently. But it really is a story of first 103 00:05:35,760 --> 00:05:37,640 Speaker 2: to market. And this is why we talk about first 104 00:05:37,720 --> 00:05:40,400 Speaker 2: market is so important and why people file stuff that 105 00:05:40,480 --> 00:05:43,120 Speaker 2: seems a little crazy or ahead of its time, because 106 00:05:43,760 --> 00:05:45,480 Speaker 2: if you are first to market and you hit it 107 00:05:45,560 --> 00:05:48,160 Speaker 2: right at the right time, it's really tough for any 108 00:05:48,160 --> 00:05:53,080 Speaker 2: competitor to eat into your assets, even if they do 109 00:05:53,200 --> 00:05:57,200 Speaker 2: have better performance, better costs. Right are you finding that here. 110 00:05:57,400 --> 00:06:02,960 Speaker 2: What percent of the total europe defense theme does the 111 00:06:02,960 --> 00:06:03,760 Speaker 2: wisdom Tree one have? 112 00:06:04,000 --> 00:06:07,960 Speaker 4: Oh well, currently it's ninety ninety three. Yeah. I think 113 00:06:07,960 --> 00:06:10,200 Speaker 4: a comparable is the van Neck brought it to launch 114 00:06:10,440 --> 00:06:12,919 Speaker 4: three years ago. It was a global defense CTF and 115 00:06:12,960 --> 00:06:17,400 Speaker 4: that was shortly after the conflict in Ukraine. They still 116 00:06:17,440 --> 00:06:22,320 Speaker 4: hold sixty seven percent of the market share, and I 117 00:06:22,320 --> 00:06:23,599 Speaker 4: don't know, nobody really. 118 00:06:23,480 --> 00:06:24,000 Speaker 1: Saw it coming. 119 00:06:24,040 --> 00:06:26,760 Speaker 4: So the first ones that launched were months or years after, 120 00:06:26,839 --> 00:06:29,440 Speaker 4: and they haven't been able to dent into their market share. 121 00:06:29,640 --> 00:06:32,760 Speaker 4: They've tried lowering their costs, they've tried going active. It's 122 00:06:32,760 --> 00:06:33,640 Speaker 4: to no avail. 123 00:06:33,880 --> 00:06:36,039 Speaker 1: Yeah, it is so crucial. 124 00:06:36,040 --> 00:06:38,640 Speaker 2: And the Vanik one is global, so you can see 125 00:06:38,640 --> 00:06:40,400 Speaker 2: why they launched that because there is a there's a 126 00:06:40,400 --> 00:06:43,040 Speaker 2: couple of global in the US, but it was it's 127 00:06:43,080 --> 00:06:46,240 Speaker 2: the European part of that that's powering it. And then 128 00:06:46,320 --> 00:06:49,240 Speaker 2: Wisdom Tree was European specifically in the US. 129 00:06:49,360 --> 00:06:50,200 Speaker 1: Droll you know. 130 00:06:50,120 --> 00:06:51,800 Speaker 2: Tuttle, Matt Tuttle, We've had him on the show a 131 00:06:51,839 --> 00:06:56,479 Speaker 2: couple of times. He actually filed and launched the only 132 00:06:56,560 --> 00:06:59,279 Speaker 2: European defense ETF in the US. EUA D is the 133 00:06:59,320 --> 00:07:03,559 Speaker 2: ticker and get this it came out in October twenty 134 00:07:03,600 --> 00:07:06,640 Speaker 2: twenty four, so I actually I beat him today and 135 00:07:06,680 --> 00:07:10,280 Speaker 2: I asked them if he totally foresaw all this happening. 136 00:07:10,640 --> 00:07:13,400 Speaker 2: He came out before the election, so he had to picture, Okay, 137 00:07:13,400 --> 00:07:16,240 Speaker 2: Trump one would do this thing and the stocks would 138 00:07:16,240 --> 00:07:16,440 Speaker 2: go up. 139 00:07:16,440 --> 00:07:17,040 Speaker 1: I was like, that's a lot. 140 00:07:17,080 --> 00:07:18,840 Speaker 2: That's getting a lot, right, and he goes, well, the 141 00:07:18,880 --> 00:07:21,800 Speaker 2: way I saw it was if Trump won, this would happen. 142 00:07:22,280 --> 00:07:28,400 Speaker 2: But if Harris won, Russia would invade Europe. So he 143 00:07:28,760 --> 00:07:30,840 Speaker 2: thought that would happen on the other side. Either way, 144 00:07:30,880 --> 00:07:33,520 Speaker 2: these stocks are going up. So this is part of 145 00:07:33,560 --> 00:07:36,240 Speaker 2: why ETF issuers in a way or kind of like 146 00:07:36,280 --> 00:07:39,960 Speaker 2: active managers, they're just not betting on their own fund. 147 00:07:39,920 --> 00:07:42,480 Speaker 2: They're betting in the marketplace that this thing will happen, 148 00:07:42,480 --> 00:07:45,240 Speaker 2: and it could happen. And he struck, old, Joel, this 149 00:07:45,320 --> 00:07:48,000 Speaker 2: is not you know, almost a billion dollars. It is 150 00:07:48,160 --> 00:07:52,600 Speaker 2: up sixty percent in I guess since October whatever, that 151 00:07:52,600 --> 00:07:56,360 Speaker 2: would be eight months or so. Unbelievable, just perfect timing. 152 00:07:56,520 --> 00:07:59,400 Speaker 2: I mean, it's a it's a case study for the 153 00:07:59,440 --> 00:08:00,640 Speaker 2: Etfhittree books. 154 00:08:01,080 --> 00:08:04,239 Speaker 3: So real, Like we've talked about this before, like hack 155 00:08:04,400 --> 00:08:06,600 Speaker 3: being one of the great launches, and it happened to 156 00:08:06,600 --> 00:08:08,160 Speaker 3: be their right place right time. 157 00:08:08,640 --> 00:08:10,440 Speaker 1: Is this the new hack? Are we going to talk 158 00:08:10,440 --> 00:08:14,200 Speaker 1: about eu A d as hack. 159 00:08:14,840 --> 00:08:18,200 Speaker 2: Hack junior hack? It need to get to about two 160 00:08:18,200 --> 00:08:21,320 Speaker 2: billion before we go. It's a new hack, but it's 161 00:08:21,320 --> 00:08:24,280 Speaker 2: well on its way. I mean again hack. I believe 162 00:08:24,320 --> 00:08:25,760 Speaker 2: it took a couple of years to get that amount, 163 00:08:25,760 --> 00:08:29,000 Speaker 2: but this is very similar to that. I would say 164 00:08:29,040 --> 00:08:33,280 Speaker 2: the robotics CTF robo was pretty similar. There's just been 165 00:08:33,280 --> 00:08:35,080 Speaker 2: a couple of these moments where I issue. Are times 166 00:08:35,080 --> 00:08:38,320 Speaker 2: it perfectly on the flip side. There's times where it 167 00:08:38,360 --> 00:08:42,640 Speaker 2: gets timed exactly the opposite and nobody cares. So it's 168 00:08:42,640 --> 00:08:45,800 Speaker 2: interesting to highlight these things. And that's why troll. You know, 169 00:08:46,400 --> 00:08:48,320 Speaker 2: you've got to put your line in the water before 170 00:08:48,440 --> 00:08:52,840 Speaker 2: the fish come. You know, these other issuers are coming 171 00:08:52,880 --> 00:08:55,079 Speaker 2: after the fish already ate and they're swimming off to 172 00:08:55,120 --> 00:08:55,760 Speaker 2: the other side. 173 00:08:55,559 --> 00:08:56,600 Speaker 1: Of the line. It's too late. 174 00:08:56,720 --> 00:09:00,480 Speaker 2: It's just like, you know, it is a big I 175 00:09:00,600 --> 00:09:03,839 Speaker 2: like fishing. So the metaphors is pretty good. And gotta 176 00:09:03,880 --> 00:09:06,960 Speaker 2: ya Vanak and Wisdom Tree to a degree, they were 177 00:09:07,000 --> 00:09:08,680 Speaker 2: just early with their lines in the water, with the 178 00:09:08,720 --> 00:09:16,240 Speaker 2: right bait, Okay, so. 179 00:09:16,360 --> 00:09:19,840 Speaker 3: What about where these things end up being listed? The 180 00:09:19,840 --> 00:09:22,880 Speaker 3: filings that you mentioned, are those all US filings? 181 00:09:23,559 --> 00:09:25,680 Speaker 2: No, the ones Henry mentioned are all already on the 182 00:09:25,720 --> 00:09:26,920 Speaker 2: market in Europe. 183 00:09:27,080 --> 00:09:28,840 Speaker 1: So they are all all there. 184 00:09:28,880 --> 00:09:31,280 Speaker 3: And now you know if titles in the US, like, 185 00:09:32,000 --> 00:09:33,480 Speaker 3: is the US the place for this or is it 186 00:09:33,520 --> 00:09:35,120 Speaker 3: going to be in the in Europe that's going to 187 00:09:35,200 --> 00:09:36,880 Speaker 3: attract the assets or is it just going to be 188 00:09:37,280 --> 00:09:38,160 Speaker 3: performance chasing? 189 00:09:38,679 --> 00:09:41,360 Speaker 4: I think well, for Forman, I think there's still a 190 00:09:41,400 --> 00:09:44,199 Speaker 4: long way to go. I mean, these military expenditures are 191 00:09:44,200 --> 00:09:46,520 Speaker 4: a multi year cycles, right, I think it's just starting. 192 00:09:46,600 --> 00:09:49,920 Speaker 4: And then the the EU has what do they call it, 193 00:09:49,960 --> 00:09:53,120 Speaker 4: the re Armed Europe Plan. They announced early March and 194 00:09:53,200 --> 00:09:55,160 Speaker 4: then wasn't she was actually kind of late because they 195 00:09:55,200 --> 00:09:57,640 Speaker 4: launched in the middle of March. But I see, I 196 00:09:57,679 --> 00:10:01,160 Speaker 4: see how much do they commit hundred billion? I think 197 00:10:01,480 --> 00:10:04,079 Speaker 4: over whatever timeline is, it's still a lot and it's 198 00:10:04,080 --> 00:10:07,400 Speaker 4: a multi year cycle. So so for the local ones, 199 00:10:07,400 --> 00:10:10,920 Speaker 4: I would say, yes, you would, you would the place 200 00:10:10,960 --> 00:10:13,640 Speaker 4: to be would be in Europe. I'm surprised there haven't 201 00:10:13,640 --> 00:10:16,040 Speaker 4: been more launches in the US to Yeah. 202 00:10:16,360 --> 00:10:18,680 Speaker 2: I believe there's one filed. I forget from who, But 203 00:10:18,760 --> 00:10:21,240 Speaker 2: it hasn't been the frenzy that it has in in Europe. 204 00:10:21,760 --> 00:10:25,680 Speaker 2: But Joel Henry vumright, there's a total of four million 205 00:10:26,080 --> 00:10:26,760 Speaker 2: between all. 206 00:10:26,600 --> 00:10:31,040 Speaker 4: Of them, four billion what in the European defense, and 207 00:10:31,160 --> 00:10:32,920 Speaker 4: it was like two point six pos. So you add 208 00:10:32,920 --> 00:10:36,320 Speaker 4: the global and if you had the globals like eleven 209 00:10:35,920 --> 00:10:36,960 Speaker 4: eleven billion. 210 00:10:36,960 --> 00:10:41,160 Speaker 2: So two billion in europe European defense and only one 211 00:10:41,200 --> 00:10:46,480 Speaker 2: billion in US European defense. That's really astonishing because normally 212 00:10:46,520 --> 00:10:48,920 Speaker 2: the US, it just has a bigger pool of money, 213 00:10:48,920 --> 00:10:52,120 Speaker 2: so whatever is popping, we will lead in assets. But 214 00:10:52,120 --> 00:10:55,600 Speaker 2: this is the rare case where Europe is possibly because 215 00:10:55,640 --> 00:10:57,440 Speaker 2: the investors here are closer to that news. 216 00:10:58,000 --> 00:11:00,240 Speaker 3: Why do you think that is? Why? Why would there 217 00:11:00,360 --> 00:11:02,240 Speaker 3: be this much more interests? 218 00:11:03,400 --> 00:11:08,560 Speaker 4: Well, besides the home bias, there might be some links 219 00:11:08,600 --> 00:11:11,720 Speaker 4: with the European Commission, so there might be some mandates 220 00:11:11,760 --> 00:11:15,280 Speaker 4: for your institutional investors to invest in European defense stocks 221 00:11:15,480 --> 00:11:16,920 Speaker 4: and this is the best way to do it, So 222 00:11:17,240 --> 00:11:18,959 Speaker 4: there might be that aspect to it too. 223 00:11:19,000 --> 00:11:21,720 Speaker 2: Also, Europe's having a pretty good year overall. They're up, 224 00:11:21,760 --> 00:11:25,080 Speaker 2: the main indexes are up like twenty three percent, twenty 225 00:11:25,120 --> 00:11:28,160 Speaker 2: five percent, So I think it's got the attention of investors. 226 00:11:28,440 --> 00:11:30,800 Speaker 2: But this is updouble that, you know. So this is 227 00:11:31,040 --> 00:11:34,280 Speaker 2: like a shiny object within other shiny object. It's like 228 00:11:34,320 --> 00:11:37,080 Speaker 2: the shiniest of the shiny. The other thing is the 229 00:11:37,120 --> 00:11:40,080 Speaker 2: thing with themes is and even sectors and industries is 230 00:11:41,240 --> 00:11:45,400 Speaker 2: sometimes these industries get so beat up and left for dead. 231 00:11:45,800 --> 00:11:48,040 Speaker 2: It doesn't take much to go up sixty percent. You 232 00:11:48,080 --> 00:11:50,400 Speaker 2: only need a little. And this is where I give 233 00:11:50,440 --> 00:11:52,960 Speaker 2: total credit because it reminds me of the uranium ETF 234 00:11:52,960 --> 00:11:55,560 Speaker 2: that was filed after a ten year bear market. Most 235 00:11:55,679 --> 00:12:00,640 Speaker 2: issuers file after again, they're they're chasing the fish. Rarely 236 00:12:00,640 --> 00:12:02,720 Speaker 2: does somebody put their line in the water where nobody's 237 00:12:02,760 --> 00:12:06,439 Speaker 2: there and everybody's like left the area. It takes some 238 00:12:06,800 --> 00:12:09,640 Speaker 2: guts and maybe some vision, but that's how you can 239 00:12:09,679 --> 00:12:13,360 Speaker 2: catch a nice run, and then you can also be first. 240 00:12:14,120 --> 00:12:16,480 Speaker 2: And so I would think more issuers would try to 241 00:12:16,480 --> 00:12:19,240 Speaker 2: find spots that have been beaten up, left for dead 242 00:12:19,280 --> 00:12:22,680 Speaker 2: and nobody cares about, versus being the eighth European Defense 243 00:12:22,720 --> 00:12:26,840 Speaker 2: ETF and trying to get like a crumb. But I 244 00:12:26,880 --> 00:12:28,959 Speaker 2: think these issuers are going on the road, they're talking 245 00:12:28,960 --> 00:12:33,280 Speaker 2: to advisors, and I think the grassroots ask for these 246 00:12:33,320 --> 00:12:35,839 Speaker 2: ETFs is there, so like, hey, they're calling the home 247 00:12:35,880 --> 00:12:38,880 Speaker 2: office and saying, we actually need it. I gotta recommend 248 00:12:38,880 --> 00:12:40,480 Speaker 2: Wisdom Trees or we have to launch one. 249 00:12:40,840 --> 00:12:43,160 Speaker 4: Yeah, and totally agree. I think it's also now a 250 00:12:43,960 --> 00:12:46,679 Speaker 4: initial of distribution. For example, BMP Piry BUSS came in 251 00:12:46,720 --> 00:12:50,240 Speaker 4: at number six five or six actually tracking at Bloomberg 252 00:12:50,520 --> 00:12:52,800 Speaker 4: European Defense in the decks end, they've got a forty 253 00:12:52,840 --> 00:12:55,520 Speaker 4: four million, which is astounding. They're the second large authority, 254 00:12:55,800 --> 00:13:00,440 Speaker 4: so that must be either internal assets or through their 255 00:13:00,840 --> 00:13:03,800 Speaker 4: local brick and mortar distribution, right, So it's going to 256 00:13:03,840 --> 00:13:05,920 Speaker 4: be all about distribution. Now, Wisdom treat does not have 257 00:13:06,080 --> 00:13:09,800 Speaker 4: physical distribution, and they've already gathered two point five billion euros. 258 00:13:09,840 --> 00:13:12,840 Speaker 4: So yeah, I think I think it's going to be 259 00:13:12,840 --> 00:13:15,400 Speaker 4: a hand to hand combat on the distribution side. 260 00:13:15,400 --> 00:13:18,800 Speaker 2: Now, you like Joel, if you black Rock, If black 261 00:13:18,880 --> 00:13:21,760 Speaker 2: Rock launched one right now, I bet they would get 262 00:13:21,800 --> 00:13:25,480 Speaker 2: theirs even if the Tuttle one is out. That's I 263 00:13:25,520 --> 00:13:27,839 Speaker 2: think that's the point with BNP here. Some firms are 264 00:13:27,840 --> 00:13:29,920 Speaker 2: just so big and powerful they're just going to get theirs. 265 00:13:30,559 --> 00:13:32,600 Speaker 2: But the mid ones and the small ones, if they're 266 00:13:32,640 --> 00:13:34,760 Speaker 2: like third or fourth. They're almost like dead dead in 267 00:13:34,800 --> 00:13:35,120 Speaker 2: the water. 268 00:13:36,720 --> 00:13:39,319 Speaker 3: So and Henry we talked a little bit about the 269 00:13:39,400 --> 00:13:42,920 Speaker 3: companies earlier. Are there any high flyers in here that 270 00:13:42,920 --> 00:13:46,120 Speaker 3: that are pretty ularly interesting, especially since this is, you know, 271 00:13:46,160 --> 00:13:48,000 Speaker 3: a category that's going to be investing in many of 272 00:13:48,000 --> 00:13:48,760 Speaker 3: the same companies. 273 00:13:49,480 --> 00:13:52,439 Speaker 4: Well, they're all pretty interesting. I'm even Ryan Mattau. The 274 00:13:53,280 --> 00:13:56,840 Speaker 4: top holding from Germany, it's mixed up. I think fifteen 275 00:13:56,880 --> 00:14:01,560 Speaker 4: percent of the fund you're to date it's returned fifty percent. 276 00:14:02,360 --> 00:14:06,840 Speaker 4: And the top the top performing company was Rank an 277 00:14:06,960 --> 00:14:11,240 Speaker 4: armored vehicles company, also from Germany. It's returned ninety nine 278 00:14:11,320 --> 00:14:13,720 Speaker 4: percent since since March. 279 00:14:14,520 --> 00:14:16,959 Speaker 2: Imagine being that company and you're like making your tanks 280 00:14:17,640 --> 00:14:21,000 Speaker 2: and like you're like, uh, another day at the office, 281 00:14:21,200 --> 00:14:24,040 Speaker 2: and like you read the news and the phone starts 282 00:14:24,080 --> 00:14:26,320 Speaker 2: ringing and you're like, oh my god, we don't have 283 00:14:26,440 --> 00:14:31,400 Speaker 2: enough people. That seems like what happened right. 284 00:14:31,280 --> 00:14:35,040 Speaker 4: Like and it's it's really bringing Europe together because the 285 00:14:35,320 --> 00:14:39,400 Speaker 4: third largest holding is actually BAE that's British Aerospace something 286 00:14:39,920 --> 00:14:43,200 Speaker 4: Systems Holdings, So they're there even though the UK is 287 00:14:43,200 --> 00:14:44,840 Speaker 4: no longer part of the European Union. To just doll 288 00:14:44,840 --> 00:14:46,840 Speaker 4: part of Europe and they're they're. 289 00:14:46,640 --> 00:14:48,480 Speaker 1: Willing to spend up for twelve percent. 290 00:14:48,240 --> 00:14:50,840 Speaker 3: Which is I think ultimately what this goes back to 291 00:14:50,960 --> 00:14:53,720 Speaker 3: is sort of where we're talking at the beginning, Henry, 292 00:14:53,760 --> 00:14:57,240 Speaker 3: of like, if if NATO and countries are willing to 293 00:14:57,280 --> 00:15:01,000 Speaker 3: like really invest in these companies, then this actor, which 294 00:15:01,200 --> 00:15:04,000 Speaker 3: you know, maybe maybe was pretty sleeping quiet for. 295 00:15:03,960 --> 00:15:06,720 Speaker 1: A long time, suddenly there's a lot of appetite. 296 00:15:07,520 --> 00:15:10,600 Speaker 4: Yeah, and these are these aren't even two three year cycles, 297 00:15:10,640 --> 00:15:12,240 Speaker 4: not even five years. If we're talking ten to twenty 298 00:15:12,320 --> 00:15:14,520 Speaker 4: year cycles. Right once you put the contract in, it 299 00:15:14,640 --> 00:15:17,120 Speaker 4: takes time to plan and to develop and then to 300 00:15:17,240 --> 00:15:20,040 Speaker 4: launch a deploy right. 301 00:15:20,200 --> 00:15:22,080 Speaker 3: Well, Henry, as long as we have you here, I 302 00:15:22,120 --> 00:15:23,920 Speaker 3: want to ask you, you know, what's it feel like 303 00:15:24,000 --> 00:15:26,440 Speaker 3: to be beating the US up for once? 304 00:15:28,280 --> 00:15:29,240 Speaker 4: If it's good. 305 00:15:31,160 --> 00:15:31,960 Speaker 2: That you're German? 306 00:15:32,080 --> 00:15:35,480 Speaker 3: I'm trying to Yeah, you know, look, Henry, it's taken 307 00:15:35,520 --> 00:15:39,720 Speaker 3: forever to get to a point where Europe is outperforming 308 00:15:39,920 --> 00:15:43,240 Speaker 3: the US this year. And I know how Eric feels 309 00:15:43,240 --> 00:15:45,040 Speaker 3: about this, but I want to I want to hear 310 00:15:45,080 --> 00:15:46,560 Speaker 3: it from you. How do you how do you talk 311 00:15:46,600 --> 00:15:50,880 Speaker 3: to Eric about why Europe is different this time? 312 00:15:52,920 --> 00:15:56,200 Speaker 4: Just look at the flows. I think Europeans are just 313 00:15:56,200 --> 00:15:58,280 Speaker 4: just had enough of putting their money all into into 314 00:15:58,280 --> 00:16:02,160 Speaker 4: the US. I think put massive amounts of money from 315 00:16:02,200 --> 00:16:04,720 Speaker 4: November all the way with you to March, and then 316 00:16:04,760 --> 00:16:07,240 Speaker 4: suddenly when terrors it, they just say, okay, wait, wait 317 00:16:07,240 --> 00:16:09,720 Speaker 4: a minute, what's going on? So you see a reverse 318 00:16:09,920 --> 00:16:15,480 Speaker 4: out of US ETF focus ETFs in April or after terrors, 319 00:16:16,160 --> 00:16:18,040 Speaker 4: and they're saying, well, we better get our cash back, 320 00:16:18,240 --> 00:16:20,480 Speaker 4: you know, back to our own countries. 321 00:16:20,520 --> 00:16:20,680 Speaker 1: Now. 322 00:16:20,920 --> 00:16:24,240 Speaker 2: Yeah, normally they invest half their money here, but this 323 00:16:24,360 --> 00:16:28,400 Speaker 2: year they've invested only three percent. That said, they better 324 00:16:28,440 --> 00:16:30,920 Speaker 2: get back on the train because the SMP has left 325 00:16:30,920 --> 00:16:31,320 Speaker 2: the station. 326 00:16:31,440 --> 00:16:33,520 Speaker 1: Baby. That's right, all right, we'll leave it there. 327 00:16:34,160 --> 00:16:36,960 Speaker 3: Henry, thanks so much for joining us on Trillions. Thank you, 328 00:16:42,400 --> 00:16:44,960 Speaker 3: thanks for listening to Trillions until next time. You can 329 00:16:45,000 --> 00:16:49,359 Speaker 3: find us on the Bloomberg Terminal, Bloomberg dot com, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, 330 00:16:49,960 --> 00:16:51,960 Speaker 3: or wherever else you'd like to listen. We'd love to 331 00:16:52,000 --> 00:16:54,120 Speaker 3: hear from you. Hit us up on social I'm at 332 00:16:54,200 --> 00:16:57,720 Speaker 3: Joel Weber Show, He's at Eric Balcina's. Trillions is produced 333 00:16:57,720 --> 00:17:01,640 Speaker 3: by Magnus Hendrickson. Brendan Newman is our executive producer. Sage 334 00:17:01,640 --> 00:17:03,520 Speaker 3: Bauman is the head of Bloomberg Podcast.