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Speaker 1: Hi, Betrayal listeners, It's Andrea Gunning. We're off this week

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Speaker 1: for Thanksgiving, but we'll be back next week with a

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Speaker 1: brand new story. This week, we wanted to re release

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Speaker 1: a listener favorite, Donnielle's story. We originally released it in

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Speaker 1: two parts, but for this re release, we're combining both

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Speaker 1: parts for you so you can hear her full story

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Speaker 1: all at once. One thing we love about Donnielle's story

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Speaker 1: is the ending where she finds love again, and as

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Speaker 1: you'll hear in the episode, she and her new husband

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Speaker 1: got married at the Thanksgiving table. They said their vows

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Speaker 1: between dinner and dessert, surrounded by all of their family.

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Speaker 1: We will be back next week with a brand new episode,

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Speaker 1: and in the meantime for those celebrating happy Thanksgiving. We

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Speaker 1: are so grateful to all of you, our listeners. Thank

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Speaker 1: you for everything. So without further ado, here's Donnielle's story.

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Speaker 2: One of my children saw his dad dressed all in black,

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Speaker 2: and he said that it seemed like his dad was

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Speaker 2: mad at him because he yell led him to go

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Speaker 2: back to bed, and the night before that he had

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Speaker 2: actually told my oldest child to rap a sledgehammer that

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Speaker 2: we had that had a really bright yellow handle in

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Speaker 2: black electric tape and find a black raincoat for him

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Speaker 2: to wear.

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Speaker 1: And she was like, Okay, Dad, I'm Anderrea gunning. And

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Speaker 1: this is Betrayal, a show about the people we trust

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Speaker 1: the most and the deceptions that change everything. One night

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Speaker 1: in twenty seventeen, Danielle Oliver Chauve was awoken by the

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Speaker 1: FBI in state police. They were pointing guns at her,

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Speaker 1: demanding to know where her husband was. That night, she

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Speaker 1: learned the man she had spent twenty years with was

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Speaker 1: hiding some very big secrets. This is don Yelle's first

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Speaker 1: time telling her story. She's been reluctant to share what

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Speaker 1: she went through because, as you'll hear in part two,

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Speaker 1: her husband has other victims. She wants to be respectful

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Speaker 1: of their experience and suffering. But this episode isn't about

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Speaker 1: her husband's crimes. It's about the twenty year marriage Donyelle

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Speaker 1: built with him, the ways he deceived and violated her,

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Speaker 1: and the shocking betrayal that ended it all. It's also

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Speaker 1: the story of being totally in the dark about your

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Speaker 1: partner's double life.

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Speaker 2: I used to watch Lifetime shows and I used to

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Speaker 2: be that person saying, oh, she had to know something.

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Speaker 2: So I totally understand why people say things like that.

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Speaker 2: But until you are actually walking in those shoes and

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Speaker 2: living with a person who can be completely double faced,

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Speaker 2: living a completely separate life, all I know is the

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Speaker 2: life that he had with me and our kids. That's

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Speaker 2: all I saw. He was able to do everything else

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Speaker 2: completely separate.

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Speaker 1: Danielle grew up in a happy, tight knit family in California.

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Speaker 2: Family is very important to me. We were just over

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Speaker 2: in my parents, all of my siblings, and we all

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Speaker 2: just get along really well. There's hardly ever any arguments

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Speaker 2: within our family, and when there is, it's results within

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Speaker 2: the day.

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Speaker 1: Growing up, Danielle's parents were her role models. They had

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Speaker 1: a respectful and happy marriage. It was an environment that

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Speaker 1: nurtured her easy going and trusting nature.

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Speaker 2: I had a really good childhood, and so I didn't

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Speaker 2: grow up with a lot of strife or bad things

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Speaker 2: happening in my childhood where that trust was broken down.

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Speaker 1: She was raised with a strong sense of faith. That's

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Speaker 1: still one of her core values.

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Speaker 2: I know some religions can be like really strict, do this,

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Speaker 2: you can't do this. I wouldn't even say that. Mine

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Speaker 2: is a religion. It's a relationship with Christ.

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Speaker 1: Donielle is one of those rare people who loved high school.

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Speaker 1: She was popular and she had a long time high

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Speaker 1: school boyfriend named Billy.

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Speaker 2: When we were teenagers. Everybody thought for sure that we

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Speaker 2: were just going to be together forever, you know, we

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Speaker 2: were the thing.

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Speaker 1: Right before their senior year of high school, Billy proposed

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Speaker 1: to her and she said yes.

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Speaker 2: But then I actually had to move to Hawaii because

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Speaker 2: my dad was working for a military and we moved there.

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Speaker 1: She ended up spending her senior year in Hawaii. Then

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Speaker 1: she got accepted to college in Illinois. She was ready

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Speaker 1: to start a new life there without her high school boyfriend.

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Speaker 1: Giving up her first love was hard, but she wanted

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Speaker 1: to prioritize her independence. Danielle thrived in college. She loved

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Speaker 1: her major, which was art, and she also loved going

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Speaker 1: to Bible study on campus. That's where she met Chad.

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Speaker 2: He was raising his hand and answering the questions, like

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Speaker 2: right away, and he was answering the way I would

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Speaker 2: have answered those questions, right in line with the way

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Speaker 2: I believed. So I was attracted.

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Speaker 1: To that immediately. She knew Chad was special.

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Speaker 2: The first time I met him, I said to my

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Speaker 2: parents when I got back that I was going to

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Speaker 2: marry him. So it was pretty much love at first sight.

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Speaker 1: She felt comfortable around Chad. It was easy, like they'd

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Speaker 1: known each other for years.

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Speaker 2: We actually met at my parents' house and watched a

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Speaker 2: couple movies and I made amasagna and he changed my

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Speaker 2: oil in my car. That was our first date.

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Speaker 1: From the start, Danielle was serious about Chad.

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Speaker 2: When I'm dating someone that I'm deciding whether or not

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Speaker 2: this person is the person I want to marry. So

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Speaker 2: I was looking for specific things that I wanted in

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Speaker 2: a husband. When I was dating him.

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Speaker 1: Chad checked all the boxes.

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Speaker 2: There was lots of things. He grew up in a

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Speaker 2: Christian home. He had a good relationship with his parents.

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Speaker 2: He was business minded, like he was able to support me.

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Speaker 1: Everything about him felt right. He was pursuing a degree

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Speaker 1: in finance, He had dreams of starting his own business,

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Speaker 1: and like her, he also wanted a big family. But

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Speaker 1: most of all, she just loved being around him.

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Speaker 2: I had fun with him, you know, we would laugh

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Speaker 2: about lots of things. I was just attracted to the

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Speaker 2: way I felt around him.

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Speaker 1: While they were dating, he went above and beyond to

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Speaker 1: woo her.

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Speaker 2: Something about Chad, you have to know he likes to

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Speaker 2: do everything big. It always has to be the best

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Speaker 2: and the grandest and the most showy.

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Speaker 1: It's not who she is, but Chad said she deserved

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Speaker 1: the best, and it was flattering. After about two years

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Speaker 1: of dating, he made a particularly grand gesture. He bought

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Speaker 1: her an expensive dress, rented a limousine, and took them

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Speaker 1: to a dinner theater.

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Speaker 2: And during that intermission he excused himself. I thought he

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Speaker 2: was going to use the restroom, but he actually turns

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Speaker 2: out had set up beforehand with the theater that he

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Speaker 2: would go on stage and asked me to marry him

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Speaker 2: from the stage. And then he got down on his knee.

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Speaker 2: And yeah, it was quite the show.

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Speaker 1: She said. Yes, he brought her out of her comfort

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Speaker 1: zone and it felt like a fairy tale.

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Speaker 2: I was one hundred percent this is the one I

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Speaker 2: had to spend the rest of my life with.

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Speaker 1: Chad was involved in every step of the wedding planning,

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Speaker 1: which Donielle loved, and he also wanted to go to

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Speaker 1: pre marriage counseling to discuss their expectations.

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Speaker 2: We discussed who would be the breadwinner in the home.

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Speaker 2: You know what would be the different roles of both

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Speaker 2: husband and wife as far as who did what in

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Speaker 2: the household. It was thoroughly discussed how our marriage would

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Speaker 2: go before we got married. I mean, as far as

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Speaker 2: you can. We did know that I wanted to be

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Speaker 2: a stay at home mom, so that was talked about.

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Speaker 1: Danielle had been managing her own money in her early twenties,

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Speaker 1: and although she was good at it, it was a

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Speaker 1: relief to be marrying someone who had expertise in finance.

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Speaker 1: It made her feel safe, and so they agreed that

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Speaker 1: while she would manage the household, Chad would manage the money.

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Speaker 2: And I had full trust in Chad to be able

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Speaker 2: to do that too, because of his business degree. He

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Speaker 2: was really good at money, and so he went to

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Speaker 2: school for it. I didn't have any worries about him

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Speaker 2: taking over the finances for the family.

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Speaker 1: She was happy with this arrangement. She's a do it

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Speaker 1: yourself kind of person. It's an attitude that's well suited

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Speaker 1: to raising kids and running the household.

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Speaker 2: My dishwasher broke down several years ago, and I wasn't

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Speaker 2: about to pay somebody because I'm going to figure out

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Speaker 2: how to fix it. I laid all the flooring in

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Speaker 2: the house that I'm in right now. I didn't know

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Speaker 2: how to do that, but I looked it up, just

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Speaker 2: went on YouTube and figured it out. So I'm that

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Speaker 2: type of person.

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Speaker 1: After they got married, the couple decided to move to

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Speaker 1: Chad's hometown in Illinois. To call it a small town

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Speaker 1: is an understatement. The entire population could fit in one

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Speaker 1: high school football stadium.

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Speaker 2: Well, the town we live in, Erie is only nineteen hundred.

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Speaker 1: It's small, small, but perfectly suited to the life that

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Speaker 1: they were building, a life that centered around family and community. Plus,

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Speaker 1: Chad had grown up there, so he knew nearly everyone

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Speaker 1: in town, and everyone seemed to adore him. In fact,

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Speaker 1: he'd been the high school valedictorian. Once they moved back

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Speaker 1: to Erie, the couple also joined Chad's church, the church

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Speaker 1: he grew up in.

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Speaker 2: We were really involved with that church, and his parents

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Speaker 2: went to that church too, and we led a Sunday

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Speaker 2: school together.

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Speaker 1: As a couple, their life was falling into place. A

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Speaker 1: happy marriage, a strong foundation based on shared values, a

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Speaker 1: community that supported them, and a church they felt welcome by.

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Speaker 1: And Chad was making progress in his career. He began

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Speaker 1: the certification process to become a financial advisor. He wanted

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Speaker 1: to start his own firm.

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Speaker 2: He did it all online. I went through classes online

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Speaker 2: and got his certificate online and all that.

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Speaker 1: She was proud of him, and for the time being,

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Speaker 1: she kept working too.

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Speaker 2: I also worked for the post office for a little bit,

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Speaker 2: but that was not part of our marriage plan. I

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Speaker 2: didn't want to be a working mom. I wanted to

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Speaker 2: be a stay at home mom. Pretty much as soon

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Speaker 2: as we got married, we started trying.

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Speaker 1: But conceiving their first baby didn't happen as quickly as

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Speaker 1: Danielle hoped. The months turned into a year, and during

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Speaker 1: that year, Chad made a shocking confession.

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Speaker 2: He came home from work and sat down and said,

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Speaker 2: I need to tell you something really important and just said,

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Speaker 2: I had an accounter with a guy in the bathroom,

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Speaker 2: and I think we need to go see somebody and

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Speaker 2: talk to like a counselor about it. And so I

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Speaker 2: was just like, what is going on? It just blindsided me,

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Speaker 2: Like what just happened.

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Speaker 1: She asked him point blank if he was gay. He

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Speaker 1: said no, he wasn't. She wanted more details about what

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Speaker 1: actually happened. Who it was with and what they did.

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Speaker 2: But he never really gave a straight answer. It was

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Speaker 2: just we need to go talk to somebody, like a

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Speaker 2: counselor about it.

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Speaker 1: Donielle was shaken and confused about her husband's confession to

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Speaker 1: a one time playing, but at the same time, Ched

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Speaker 1: was doing everything he could to make it right. He

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Speaker 1: confessed to it immediately, he wanted to get help, and

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Speaker 1: most importantly, he was coming to her with sincere remorse.

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Speaker 2: He was crying, I was crying. He was saying sorry.

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Speaker 1: Chad wanted to get help quickly, and so the next

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Speaker 1: day they did.

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Speaker 2: We actually went to the pastor and asked for advice

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Speaker 2: about who we should see as a marriage counselor for us.

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Speaker 2: We were given a name of a Christian counselor.

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Speaker 1: They had multiple sessions with the counselor, some sessions together

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Speaker 1: as a couple and some separately. During a one on

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Speaker 1: one meeting, the counselor gave Danielle some advice.

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Speaker 2: He advised me, you should really think carefully about this marriage.

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Speaker 2: You know, you actually have a right to end this

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Speaker 2: marriage if he is being unfaithful to you.

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Speaker 1: The counselor said he'd seen a situation like this before,

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Speaker 1: and he wanted Donielle to know that divorce was an option.

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Speaker 2: I understood that. I knew that that's something that is

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Speaker 2: perfectly fine for me to file for a divorce, But

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Speaker 2: I didn't want to. I wanted to make this marriage work.

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Speaker 2: I didn't even want the word divorce to come up

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Speaker 2: in our marriage. Like when I made a commitment in

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Speaker 2: our marriage at the wedding ceremony, my promise was a promise.

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Speaker 2: I didn't take my vowels lightly in sickness and in

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Speaker 2: health a richard for poorr I was going to walk

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Speaker 2: through it with him. I wanted to help him resolve

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Speaker 2: whatever it was that he was going through because I

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Speaker 2: loved him and I wanted our marriage to work.

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Speaker 1: This one infidelity, it felt small and manageable, especially compared

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Speaker 1: to the years they'd spend together getting to know each other,

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Speaker 1: studying the Bible together, and building a life. She really

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Speaker 1: trusted Chad.

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Speaker 2: I felt like I could one percent trust him, even

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Speaker 2: though he had done whatever he had done. I believe

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Speaker 2: him one percent.

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Speaker 1: They got a workbook on overcoming infidelity and even did

247
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Speaker 1: the homework together, and they decided to lean on their

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Speaker 1: faith to help them rebuild their relationship. Church became an

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Speaker 1: even bigger part of their lives.

250
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Speaker 2: He was an elder in the church. We jointly were

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Speaker 2: leaders for kids Christian camps. We were very involved in

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Speaker 2: our faith.

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Speaker 1: Their marriage began looking up, especially when a year later

254
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Speaker 1: they welcomed their first baby, a baby girl.

255
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Speaker 2: She was an amazing first child, super easy baby, smiling

256
00:14:41,520 --> 00:14:45,960
Speaker 2: all the time, happy, alert. It was a great, great

257
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Speaker 2: first mom experience.

258
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Speaker 1: Danielle was on top of the world, so filled with

259
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Speaker 1: love for her first daughter and her young family. It

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Speaker 1: confirmed to her that she really did want to be

261
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Speaker 1: a stay at home mom. She just felt whole.

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Speaker 2: People that we would meet walking through a mall always

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Speaker 2: stop and say, Oh, you have the cutest baby. She's

264
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Speaker 2: the cutest thing I've ever seen, and your family is

265
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Speaker 2: so cute.

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Speaker 1: The difficulties she and Chad faced in the first year

267
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Speaker 1: of marriage started to feel like they were in the

268
00:15:18,160 --> 00:15:19,040
Speaker 1: rear view mirror.

269
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Speaker 2: At that point, I felt totally in love with him

270
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Speaker 2: and close to him. I felt like I had the

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Speaker 2: perfect life.

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Speaker 1: That baby would be the first of six.

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Speaker 2: I knew that you could get pregnant even when you

274
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Speaker 2: were still nursing, and before you had your first cycle

275
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Speaker 2: after pregnancy. I didn't think it was going to happen

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Speaker 2: to me, but it did. Soon.

277
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Speaker 1: Donielle's life became consumed by full time childcare. As their

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Speaker 1: kids got older, she started homeschooling them, and she loved

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Speaker 1: every minute of it.

280
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Speaker 2: I wouldn't have it any other way. And a lot

281
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Speaker 2: of people are like, wow, six kids, that's a lot,

282
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Speaker 2: but you know, each one of them is unique and

283
00:16:01,800 --> 00:16:06,000
Speaker 2: has their own personality. Each of them is just amazing.

284
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Speaker 2: I love it. I absolutely love it.

285
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Speaker 1: With a growing family came more financial demands, but luckily

286
00:16:14,200 --> 00:16:18,040
Speaker 1: Chad's business was taking off. They even had the ability

287
00:16:18,120 --> 00:16:19,320
Speaker 1: to upgrade their house.

288
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Speaker 2: He had been starting to look at this property that

289
00:16:22,480 --> 00:16:25,640
Speaker 2: he really wanted. It was a huge house, way bigger

290
00:16:25,680 --> 00:16:29,200
Speaker 2: than we needed. Enormous, huge living room, huge family, a

291
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Speaker 2: huge dining room, huge huge master bedroom, you know, basement

292
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Speaker 2: that looked like a bowling alley, And so he started

293
00:16:35,400 --> 00:16:39,840
Speaker 2: looking at it and dreaming about it and eventually decided

294
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Speaker 2: that he was going to try to purchase it.

295
00:16:42,200 --> 00:16:45,160
Speaker 1: Danielle didn't think it was the most practical choice, but

296
00:16:45,400 --> 00:16:48,520
Speaker 1: the house made him happy. After they moved in, he

297
00:16:48,640 --> 00:16:51,120
Speaker 1: tried to tell her how to run the house, but

298
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Speaker 1: she stood her ground. She trusted him to handle the finances,

299
00:16:55,960 --> 00:16:58,600
Speaker 1: so when it came to the housework, he needed to

300
00:16:58,640 --> 00:16:59,240
Speaker 1: trust her.

301
00:17:00,560 --> 00:17:03,200
Speaker 2: He wanted me to do things a certain way, like

302
00:17:03,640 --> 00:17:05,840
Speaker 2: do laundry on a certain day, do the dishes on

303
00:17:05,880 --> 00:17:08,800
Speaker 2: a certain day, or you know, do dusting on a

304
00:17:08,800 --> 00:17:11,720
Speaker 2: certain day. And I was like, no, I will do

305
00:17:11,760 --> 00:17:13,800
Speaker 2: it when it needs to be done. When I see

306
00:17:13,840 --> 00:17:16,160
Speaker 2: that it needs doing, I'll do it, you know.

307
00:17:17,400 --> 00:17:20,280
Speaker 1: And there were a lot of things that needed dusting.

308
00:17:20,840 --> 00:17:25,920
Speaker 1: Chad was a collector. It was a quirk that Donielle accepted.

309
00:17:25,840 --> 00:17:29,840
Speaker 2: Precious Moments, figurines, and he was very much in a

310
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Speaker 2: Hallmark fan, so he had millions of Hallmark ornaments, tons

311
00:17:35,200 --> 00:17:39,600
Speaker 2: of DVDs. I mean we had two huge walls full

312
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Speaker 2: of DVDs.

313
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Speaker 1: They loved watching movies as a family, and after the

314
00:17:44,800 --> 00:17:48,000
Speaker 1: kids went to bed, the couple would watch their favorite TV.

315
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Speaker 2: Shows, Dexter and Breaking Bad.

316
00:17:53,760 --> 00:17:57,560
Speaker 1: Every summer, Danielle, Chad and their six kids would take

317
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Speaker 1: family road.

318
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Speaker 2: Trips Stone the Grand Canyon, Mount Rushmore. We had all

319
00:18:06,160 --> 00:18:10,280
Speaker 2: the tourist places in the United States. We had a

320
00:18:10,320 --> 00:18:13,000
Speaker 2: lot of really fun times as family.

321
00:18:13,480 --> 00:18:17,520
Speaker 1: On these trips, they'd stay in huge rental homes. Chad

322
00:18:17,560 --> 00:18:20,560
Speaker 1: always wanted the best of the best for the family.

323
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Speaker 2: And they were very nice, very nice rented houses. Some

324
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Speaker 2: of them. I was like, okay, guys, don't touch anything,

325
00:18:29,080 --> 00:18:34,240
Speaker 2: you know, like expensive paintings on the walls and glass decorations.

326
00:18:34,359 --> 00:18:37,840
Speaker 1: One summer, about fifteen years into their marriage, the family

327
00:18:37,920 --> 00:18:40,920
Speaker 1: was on one of their regular road trips, and on

328
00:18:41,000 --> 00:18:45,400
Speaker 1: this trip, their rental home was in a remote area.

329
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Speaker 2: I woke up around tween in the morning. I know,

330
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Speaker 2: it was the middle of the night. All the kids

331
00:18:52,119 --> 00:18:55,200
Speaker 2: were asleep, and I got up to go to the

332
00:18:55,240 --> 00:18:58,639
Speaker 2: bathroom or something and turned over and he was not

333
00:18:58,720 --> 00:19:02,720
Speaker 2: in bed with me. I looked around the house to

334
00:19:02,760 --> 00:19:05,840
Speaker 2: see if he was just up somewhere. He was not there.

335
00:19:06,359 --> 00:19:10,000
Speaker 2: I went out into the garage area. The car was gone,

336
00:19:10,400 --> 00:19:14,840
Speaker 2: so I started being like, where did he go? There

337
00:19:14,880 --> 00:19:17,320
Speaker 2: was no note as far as he left somewhere. He

338
00:19:17,320 --> 00:19:21,400
Speaker 2: didn't leave a message on my phone. He was just gone.

339
00:19:21,680 --> 00:19:24,280
Speaker 1: It was the early two thousands, so she didn't have

340
00:19:24,320 --> 00:19:27,359
Speaker 1: a smartphone to look at his location. She started to

341
00:19:27,400 --> 00:19:29,200
Speaker 1: worry that something terrible happened.

342
00:19:30,000 --> 00:19:33,600
Speaker 2: So I started calling around to the hospital around the

343
00:19:33,640 --> 00:19:38,320
Speaker 2: area and is there any child skipper admitted into this hospital. No, ma'am,

344
00:19:39,280 --> 00:19:40,960
Speaker 2: thank you, call the next hospital.

345
00:19:41,760 --> 00:19:45,720
Speaker 1: Around three am, the phone rang. It was Chat.

346
00:19:47,119 --> 00:19:50,600
Speaker 2: And he said he was at Walmart. And I was like, okay,

347
00:19:50,720 --> 00:19:53,480
Speaker 2: why are you at Walmart? I just thought I would

348
00:19:53,520 --> 00:19:57,160
Speaker 2: pick up some stuff. But you know, you can kind

349
00:19:57,160 --> 00:19:59,720
Speaker 2: of tell when somebody's calling from the middle of a store.

350
00:20:00,000 --> 00:20:04,240
Speaker 2: Can hear the hum of everything. There was no shopping

351
00:20:04,280 --> 00:20:07,879
Speaker 2: cart sounds, no like cashier beeping and stuff. There was

352
00:20:07,920 --> 00:20:11,040
Speaker 2: none of that. It did not sound like he was

353
00:20:11,040 --> 00:20:17,040
Speaker 2: in a shopping area. I hung up the phone and

354
00:20:17,200 --> 00:20:20,520
Speaker 2: just was like, how what is happening? I don't understand.

355
00:20:20,920 --> 00:20:22,840
Speaker 2: Says He's are in Walmart, but it's hours away. That

356
00:20:22,880 --> 00:20:26,560
Speaker 2: doesn't make any sense. And I just sat in confusion,

357
00:20:26,720 --> 00:20:28,000
Speaker 2: shaking until he got home.

358
00:20:28,960 --> 00:20:31,879
Speaker 1: When Chad got back, he tried to explain it away,

359
00:20:32,400 --> 00:20:33,400
Speaker 1: and he apologized.

360
00:20:33,400 --> 00:20:35,080
Speaker 2: He said, I'm sorry I didn't tell you where I

361
00:20:35,160 --> 00:20:38,600
Speaker 2: was going. You know, everything's fine, You're good, the kids

362
00:20:38,640 --> 00:20:44,800
Speaker 2: are good. I'm back, We're safe. He blew it over.

363
00:20:46,000 --> 00:20:48,880
Speaker 1: Whenever they got in a disagreement, this is what he'd

364
00:20:48,920 --> 00:20:49,360
Speaker 1: tell her.

365
00:20:50,480 --> 00:20:53,920
Speaker 2: His favorite phrase was, don't make a mountain out of

366
00:20:53,960 --> 00:20:56,720
Speaker 2: a mole hill. You know, you just get really emotional

367
00:20:56,760 --> 00:21:03,120
Speaker 2: about things. It's okay, you know, calm down. Always made

368
00:21:03,160 --> 00:21:04,760
Speaker 2: me feel like I was crazy.

369
00:21:05,040 --> 00:21:07,879
Speaker 1: Abandoning the family in a rental house in the middle

370
00:21:07,960 --> 00:21:11,440
Speaker 1: of the night with no good explanation. It just didn't

371
00:21:11,440 --> 00:21:14,080
Speaker 1: sit right with her, So Donielle called her mom.

372
00:21:14,560 --> 00:21:16,840
Speaker 2: She was like, oh, wow, yeah, that is really weird.

373
00:21:17,320 --> 00:21:19,080
Speaker 2: I'm glad you're okay. You know, I'm glad it all

374
00:21:19,119 --> 00:21:20,720
Speaker 2: worked out, but that is really weird.

375
00:21:21,800 --> 00:21:25,480
Speaker 1: Donielle was the full time caretaker for six children under fifteen.

376
00:21:26,080 --> 00:21:28,560
Speaker 1: She didn't have the energy to fight with her husband.

377
00:21:29,119 --> 00:21:32,280
Speaker 2: I didn't confront him. That's one of my personality quirks

378
00:21:32,359 --> 00:21:37,159
Speaker 2: is I don't like confrontation. I would rather just not

379
00:21:37,320 --> 00:21:40,560
Speaker 2: talk about it than have a huge argument about something,

380
00:21:41,480 --> 00:21:45,560
Speaker 2: which is not healthy. I think it's much healthier to

381
00:21:45,560 --> 00:21:51,240
Speaker 2: communicate and work it out. But at that point, I

382
00:21:51,280 --> 00:21:53,040
Speaker 2: just didn't want to deal with it.

383
00:21:53,560 --> 00:21:57,439
Speaker 1: Plus, whenever she did question him, it always ended up

384
00:21:57,480 --> 00:21:58,480
Speaker 1: coming back on her.

385
00:21:59,119 --> 00:22:02,520
Speaker 2: On the rare occasion when I would ask questions, I

386
00:22:02,520 --> 00:22:06,120
Speaker 2: would be shut down and told I was crazy or

387
00:22:06,840 --> 00:22:10,639
Speaker 2: that is totally not how it went. You had blown

388
00:22:10,680 --> 00:22:14,040
Speaker 2: this out of proportion and you don't remember the actual

389
00:22:14,080 --> 00:22:17,320
Speaker 2: fact that actually happened. This is how it actually happened.

390
00:22:34,640 --> 00:22:37,280
Speaker 1: When Donielle woke up on a family vacation to find

391
00:22:37,320 --> 00:22:40,040
Speaker 1: her husband missing. He said he was picking up something

392
00:22:40,040 --> 00:22:42,920
Speaker 1: for work at a Walmart in the middle of the night.

393
00:22:43,640 --> 00:22:47,520
Speaker 1: She didn't quite buy the story, but she knew Chad

394
00:22:47,840 --> 00:22:51,960
Speaker 1: was busier than ever growing his financial advising firm. Around

395
00:22:52,000 --> 00:22:54,840
Speaker 1: the same time, he decided to start making passive income

396
00:22:55,240 --> 00:22:58,760
Speaker 1: by buying rental properties in town. It started with one

397
00:22:58,880 --> 00:23:03,560
Speaker 1: small house too, then an apartment building in their hometown.

398
00:23:04,400 --> 00:23:06,600
Speaker 1: He was so busy that he often worked from home

399
00:23:06,640 --> 00:23:10,280
Speaker 1: at nights. He renovated their basement to become his home office.

400
00:23:11,200 --> 00:23:13,879
Speaker 1: He even put in a king sized bed.

401
00:23:14,560 --> 00:23:16,280
Speaker 2: I didn't understand why you would need a bed in

402
00:23:16,320 --> 00:23:20,520
Speaker 2: your office, but he insisted on having it, and his

403
00:23:20,600 --> 00:23:22,600
Speaker 2: reasons were that if he needed a nap, he could

404
00:23:22,720 --> 00:23:24,720
Speaker 2: just hop in the bed and take a quick nap

405
00:23:24,800 --> 00:23:25,880
Speaker 2: and then get back to work.

406
00:23:26,840 --> 00:23:29,760
Speaker 1: It bothered her him staying up late like this and

407
00:23:29,800 --> 00:23:33,000
Speaker 1: sleeping in his office. It also bothered her that he

408
00:23:33,119 --> 00:23:36,600
Speaker 1: locked the door. He said it was a security measure

409
00:23:36,840 --> 00:23:39,560
Speaker 1: because he had important financial documents in.

410
00:23:39,520 --> 00:23:42,160
Speaker 2: There, and in the back of my mind, I'm thinking well,

411
00:23:42,520 --> 00:23:44,560
Speaker 2: how do you work at night? If you are a

412
00:23:44,600 --> 00:23:48,679
Speaker 2: financial advisor, you can't meet with clients at night. So

413
00:23:48,800 --> 00:23:50,760
Speaker 2: it was just very confusing to me. And I do

414
00:23:50,800 --> 00:23:53,400
Speaker 2: remember one time just crying my eyes out to him, saying,

415
00:23:53,440 --> 00:23:55,359
Speaker 2: I really want you to sleep with me. You know,

416
00:23:55,520 --> 00:23:58,919
Speaker 2: at night, I just feel closer to when we're sleeping together.

417
00:24:00,080 --> 00:24:02,159
Speaker 2: I feel like we're more like roommates.

418
00:24:03,640 --> 00:24:06,480
Speaker 1: He started coming to bed with her until she fell asleep,

419
00:24:06,920 --> 00:24:09,040
Speaker 1: then he would slip out and go back to work.

420
00:24:09,920 --> 00:24:12,320
Speaker 1: She would only realize it when she woke up and

421
00:24:12,359 --> 00:24:14,600
Speaker 1: found him gone.

422
00:24:14,640 --> 00:24:17,960
Speaker 2: One night, I actually got up out of bed and

423
00:24:18,520 --> 00:24:21,440
Speaker 2: was knocking on his basement door, and I heard no answer,

424
00:24:21,480 --> 00:24:24,159
Speaker 2: And so I actually got in the car and was

425
00:24:24,240 --> 00:24:27,040
Speaker 2: driving around and thinking maybe I would see his car somewhere.

426
00:24:27,040 --> 00:24:30,600
Speaker 2: I never did, but I got to that point where

427
00:24:30,640 --> 00:24:32,680
Speaker 2: I was like starting to look to see if I

428
00:24:32,680 --> 00:24:33,600
Speaker 2: could find anything.

429
00:24:34,080 --> 00:24:36,879
Speaker 1: She never found any proof that her husband was cheating

430
00:24:37,040 --> 00:24:40,159
Speaker 1: or having an affair. She didn't have the energy to

431
00:24:40,200 --> 00:24:43,720
Speaker 1: start a fight with him. He insisted on sleeping in

432
00:24:43,760 --> 00:24:47,879
Speaker 1: the basement. Eventually she became resigned to the fact she

433
00:24:48,000 --> 00:24:49,320
Speaker 1: couldn't change his mind.

434
00:24:49,800 --> 00:24:52,480
Speaker 2: At that point in our marriage, I felt very distant

435
00:24:52,760 --> 00:24:55,040
Speaker 2: from him, like I felt like there was a wall up,

436
00:24:55,119 --> 00:24:58,520
Speaker 2: and we never would discuss anything. If I ever wanted

437
00:24:58,560 --> 00:25:01,520
Speaker 2: to talk about anything, it was always I'm too tired,

438
00:25:02,200 --> 00:25:04,760
Speaker 2: or can we talk about this tomorrow, or let's talk

439
00:25:04,760 --> 00:25:07,639
Speaker 2: about this this weekend. But nothing ever got talked about.

440
00:25:08,600 --> 00:25:11,360
Speaker 1: In this period where Chad was sleeping in the basement

441
00:25:11,400 --> 00:25:15,000
Speaker 1: office and they were bickering, Danielle knew that their marriage

442
00:25:15,160 --> 00:25:19,280
Speaker 1: needed to improve, so she saw it help for herself.

443
00:25:20,400 --> 00:25:22,800
Speaker 2: I actually went and saw a counselor a couple times

444
00:25:23,160 --> 00:25:27,680
Speaker 2: on my own because I felt like me having these

445
00:25:27,800 --> 00:25:30,960
Speaker 2: issues with our marriage was kind of my fault. I

446
00:25:31,000 --> 00:25:33,960
Speaker 2: felt like there was something wrong with me not feeling

447
00:25:33,960 --> 00:25:37,920
Speaker 2: close to him. But I wanted our marriage to be

448
00:25:38,000 --> 00:25:39,879
Speaker 2: a really good marriage, and I didn't feel that it

449
00:25:39,920 --> 00:25:40,760
Speaker 2: was a good marriage.

450
00:25:41,760 --> 00:25:45,560
Speaker 1: She even suggested they try counseling again as a couple,

451
00:25:46,400 --> 00:25:48,760
Speaker 1: but this time Chad resisted.

452
00:25:49,800 --> 00:25:51,840
Speaker 2: He refused to go to more than one or two

453
00:25:51,920 --> 00:25:54,720
Speaker 2: sessions with me. He felt like it was useless or

454
00:25:55,200 --> 00:26:00,320
Speaker 2: he didn't want to tell somebody else our problems.

455
00:26:02,960 --> 00:26:06,160
Speaker 1: With each passing month, Chad spent more and more time

456
00:26:06,240 --> 00:26:09,960
Speaker 1: out of the house, renovating the rental properties and some

457
00:26:10,119 --> 00:26:12,480
Speaker 1: nights tenants would call with emergencies.

458
00:26:13,320 --> 00:26:14,919
Speaker 2: There would be nights where he would say, Oh, I

459
00:26:14,960 --> 00:26:17,800
Speaker 2: gotta go there's a sewage leak. I have to go

460
00:26:17,840 --> 00:26:19,560
Speaker 2: really quick and fix the sewage leak.

461
00:26:20,520 --> 00:26:24,800
Speaker 1: Despite their rocky few years, she still trusted him. She

462
00:26:25,000 --> 00:26:25,440
Speaker 1: had to.

463
00:26:25,920 --> 00:26:29,440
Speaker 2: You can't have a marriage without trust. It doesn't work.

464
00:26:30,880 --> 00:26:32,520
Speaker 2: You know, if one of the partners say I'm going

465
00:26:32,600 --> 00:26:36,919
Speaker 2: to go do this outside the home, you have to

466
00:26:36,960 --> 00:26:40,480
Speaker 2: trust that they're actually doing what they're saying they're doing. Like,

467
00:26:40,520 --> 00:26:43,160
Speaker 2: if I say I'm going to go shopping, he has

468
00:26:43,200 --> 00:26:45,400
Speaker 2: to trust that I'm actually shopping. If he says I'm

469
00:26:45,400 --> 00:26:47,560
Speaker 2: going to go to, you know, fix the sewage system

470
00:26:47,560 --> 00:26:50,320
Speaker 2: in his apartments, I have to trust that he's actually

471
00:26:50,320 --> 00:26:53,720
Speaker 2: doing that. Otherwise there's no relationships.

472
00:26:54,880 --> 00:26:58,720
Speaker 1: Plus, the rental properties added financial security to their lives.

473
00:26:59,280 --> 00:27:01,280
Speaker 1: She believed that, but at the end of the day,

474
00:27:01,760 --> 00:27:04,520
Speaker 1: he was working so hard in order to provide for

475
00:27:04,560 --> 00:27:09,479
Speaker 1: the family. She often overheard him practicing conversations he needed

476
00:27:09,520 --> 00:27:10,520
Speaker 1: to have for work.

477
00:27:11,400 --> 00:27:13,320
Speaker 2: He had this weird quirk wherre if he was going

478
00:27:13,359 --> 00:27:15,879
Speaker 2: to have a conversation with somebody, he would write down

479
00:27:16,160 --> 00:27:18,680
Speaker 2: the conversation that he was going to have and then

480
00:27:18,720 --> 00:27:22,960
Speaker 2: memorize it. And then I would often see him like

481
00:27:23,080 --> 00:27:26,280
Speaker 2: pacing and doing weird things with his hands and with

482
00:27:26,320 --> 00:27:28,760
Speaker 2: his mouth. I think he was like rehearsing in his

483
00:27:28,840 --> 00:27:31,640
Speaker 2: mind how the conversation would go and what he would

484
00:27:31,680 --> 00:27:33,160
Speaker 2: say in response to their responses.

485
00:27:33,359 --> 00:27:36,560
Speaker 1: There was one big meeting in particular Chad was preparing for.

486
00:27:37,040 --> 00:27:39,520
Speaker 1: It was with an older couple that went to their church,

487
00:27:40,119 --> 00:27:43,560
Speaker 1: a couple that taught Sunday school. They had known Chad

488
00:27:43,560 --> 00:27:47,920
Speaker 1: for nearly his whole life, and they were wealthy. Chad

489
00:27:47,960 --> 00:27:50,360
Speaker 1: set up a meeting with them to pitch his financial

490
00:27:50,359 --> 00:27:51,480
Speaker 1: advising services.

491
00:27:51,840 --> 00:27:54,919
Speaker 2: He was trying really hard to get them to be

492
00:27:55,000 --> 00:27:56,080
Speaker 2: one of his clients.

493
00:27:56,520 --> 00:27:59,280
Speaker 1: In the end, they decided not to use him. He

494
00:27:59,359 --> 00:28:03,680
Speaker 1: was dejected. He'd been counting on their business. After that

495
00:28:03,720 --> 00:28:06,959
Speaker 1: meeting didn't go as planned, he started talking about selling

496
00:28:07,000 --> 00:28:12,680
Speaker 1: his financial advising business and instead getting into the storage industry.

497
00:28:13,680 --> 00:28:16,600
Speaker 2: There's a little plot of land that would be perfect

498
00:28:16,640 --> 00:28:19,959
Speaker 2: for storage units. So he had said that, you know,

499
00:28:20,600 --> 00:28:23,040
Speaker 2: we're going to buy this land over here and I'm

500
00:28:23,040 --> 00:28:25,560
Speaker 2: going to start building storage units, and so we need

501
00:28:25,600 --> 00:28:26,760
Speaker 2: to set up this LLC.

502
00:28:27,359 --> 00:28:30,479
Speaker 1: He wanted Danielle to sign paperwork to help set up

503
00:28:30,480 --> 00:28:31,320
Speaker 1: the business.

504
00:28:31,640 --> 00:28:33,720
Speaker 2: If we have he as a president, then it's better

505
00:28:33,760 --> 00:28:35,480
Speaker 2: for taxes because you're a woman.

506
00:28:36,440 --> 00:28:38,080
Speaker 1: He asked her to go to the bank with him

507
00:28:38,080 --> 00:28:40,720
Speaker 1: that day to get it set up, and there, out

508
00:28:40,760 --> 00:28:45,160
Speaker 1: in public, she noticed that her husband looked disheveled.

509
00:28:46,160 --> 00:28:51,440
Speaker 2: He was not bathed, he didn't shave. I was surprised

510
00:28:51,440 --> 00:28:53,720
Speaker 2: that he went to the bank in the state that

511
00:28:53,760 --> 00:28:56,640
Speaker 2: he was in. I just thought, well, he must be

512
00:28:56,720 --> 00:29:01,760
Speaker 2: so tired. He's trying to sell his financial business, and

513
00:29:01,800 --> 00:29:04,920
Speaker 2: he's trying to get these storage units ready, and he's,

514
00:29:05,200 --> 00:29:06,960
Speaker 2: you know, he's not getting much sleep, so he just

515
00:29:07,080 --> 00:29:08,520
Speaker 2: must be really stressed out.

516
00:29:08,840 --> 00:29:11,600
Speaker 1: Later that day, one of Donielle's kids came to her.

517
00:29:12,200 --> 00:29:15,400
Speaker 1: He said that last night he'd seen something strange in

518
00:29:15,440 --> 00:29:17,000
Speaker 1: the driveway of their house.

519
00:29:17,720 --> 00:29:19,680
Speaker 2: One of my children said that he got up and

520
00:29:19,800 --> 00:29:25,120
Speaker 2: saw his dad dressed all in black, and he said

521
00:29:25,120 --> 00:29:27,840
Speaker 2: that it seemed like Chad was mad at him because

522
00:29:27,920 --> 00:29:29,640
Speaker 2: he yelled at him to go back to bed.

523
00:29:30,200 --> 00:29:33,400
Speaker 1: This was alarming because another one of her kids had

524
00:29:33,440 --> 00:29:35,880
Speaker 1: confessed something bizarre.

525
00:29:35,840 --> 00:29:39,240
Speaker 2: The night before that he had actually told my oldest

526
00:29:39,320 --> 00:29:43,239
Speaker 2: child to wrap a sledgehammer that we had that had

527
00:29:43,240 --> 00:29:47,400
Speaker 2: a really bright yellow handle in black electric tape and

528
00:29:47,480 --> 00:29:52,920
Speaker 2: find a black raincoat for him, and she was like, okay, Dad.

529
00:29:56,000 --> 00:29:58,959
Speaker 1: Immediately she tried to get in touch with Chad, but

530
00:29:59,000 --> 00:30:02,520
Speaker 1: he wasn't answering his phone. After they went to the bank,

531
00:30:02,600 --> 00:30:05,080
Speaker 1: he'd left the house to work on a rental property.

532
00:30:06,560 --> 00:30:09,680
Speaker 2: There were several rental places that he owned that he

533
00:30:09,800 --> 00:30:15,200
Speaker 2: was either renovating or was currently renting. I texted him

534
00:30:15,280 --> 00:30:17,600
Speaker 2: asking if he could call me as soon as possible.

535
00:30:18,600 --> 00:30:20,960
Speaker 2: I was starting to feel like, Okay, what's going on.

536
00:30:21,080 --> 00:30:23,240
Speaker 2: I hope he's okay. I hope he's not in an accident.

537
00:30:23,960 --> 00:30:26,680
Speaker 2: He called shortly after and explained that he had accidentally

538
00:30:26,720 --> 00:30:29,400
Speaker 2: fallen asleep at the rental and that he was still

539
00:30:29,480 --> 00:30:34,160
Speaker 2: feeling a little disoriented, but reassured me that he was fine.

540
00:30:35,320 --> 00:30:37,760
Speaker 1: If it sounds like Danielle is reading off of a

541
00:30:37,840 --> 00:30:41,640
Speaker 1: piece of paper, it's because she is. She's reading from

542
00:30:41,640 --> 00:30:44,000
Speaker 1: a written statement documenting this day.

543
00:30:45,080 --> 00:30:49,720
Speaker 2: Nothing is as it seems, absolutely nothing. This is my

544
00:30:49,840 --> 00:30:52,880
Speaker 2: living nightmare and what I can remember that has happened

545
00:30:52,880 --> 00:30:57,480
Speaker 2: in the last few days. At four to twenty two PM,

546
00:30:57,520 --> 00:31:01,120
Speaker 2: I texted him asking if he was okay. Response. I

547
00:31:01,200 --> 00:31:04,040
Speaker 2: texted again at five six pm, and his response was

548
00:31:04,680 --> 00:31:09,000
Speaker 2: yep you. I told him I was just wondering what happened,

549
00:31:09,480 --> 00:31:13,360
Speaker 2: and he texted what do you mean? And then around

550
00:31:13,360 --> 00:31:15,240
Speaker 2: five point thirty he called and said he was sorry

551
00:31:15,240 --> 00:31:17,080
Speaker 2: he didn't see my text and that he must have

552
00:31:17,160 --> 00:31:20,480
Speaker 2: been in the basement and hadn't gotten it right away.

553
00:31:20,880 --> 00:31:24,480
Speaker 1: That night, Chad didn't come home for dinner. At the time,

554
00:31:24,600 --> 00:31:27,600
Speaker 1: she assumed he'd fallen asleep at the rental property again,

555
00:31:28,240 --> 00:31:30,680
Speaker 1: but she couldn't leave her six small children to go

556
00:31:30,800 --> 00:31:34,640
Speaker 1: check on him, so around eleven PM, after putting the

557
00:31:34,720 --> 00:31:37,400
Speaker 1: kids to bed, she went to sleep herself.

558
00:31:37,880 --> 00:31:41,560
Speaker 2: Next thing I heard was banging and breaking glass and

559
00:31:41,600 --> 00:31:44,320
Speaker 2: then yelling state police, state police, hands in the air.

560
00:31:45,560 --> 00:31:47,640
Speaker 2: I came out in my bedroom with no glasses on,

561
00:31:48,120 --> 00:31:51,840
Speaker 2: hands in the air, wondering if they were actually police

562
00:31:52,000 --> 00:31:54,480
Speaker 2: because I can't see very if I can only see

563
00:31:54,760 --> 00:31:57,560
Speaker 2: about a foot in front of me without being blurry.

564
00:31:58,720 --> 00:32:01,320
Speaker 2: In my mind, I was thinking, well, well, either I'm

565
00:32:01,320 --> 00:32:05,920
Speaker 2: being robbed and they're posing as state police, or something's

566
00:32:05,920 --> 00:32:09,120
Speaker 2: happening and I have no idea why there's state police

567
00:32:09,400 --> 00:32:10,760
Speaker 2: in my house with a gun pointing at me.

568
00:32:11,680 --> 00:32:15,360
Speaker 1: It was becoming very clear, very quickly. This was actually

569
00:32:15,440 --> 00:32:20,120
Speaker 1: the state police and the FBI. There wasn't a mistake.

570
00:32:20,720 --> 00:32:24,640
Speaker 1: They were looking for Chad, and they were incredibly serious.

571
00:32:25,840 --> 00:32:27,959
Speaker 2: They asked if anyone else was in the house, and

572
00:32:28,000 --> 00:32:31,120
Speaker 2: I said, yes, just me and the kids, assuming Chad

573
00:32:31,200 --> 00:32:36,400
Speaker 2: was at the rental. My whole mouth got super dry.

574
00:32:36,480 --> 00:32:39,520
Speaker 2: I could not hardly even talk. I asked them if

575
00:32:39,520 --> 00:32:41,160
Speaker 2: I could go back into the bedroom to get some

576
00:32:41,280 --> 00:32:44,320
Speaker 2: water because I kept water by my bed, and they're like, no,

577
00:32:44,400 --> 00:32:45,960
Speaker 2: you can't go anywhere. You have to stay right here.

578
00:32:46,680 --> 00:32:48,480
Speaker 2: I wasn't even allowed to wake up my kids. They

579
00:32:48,600 --> 00:32:52,600
Speaker 2: actually went and woke up all my kids. They were

580
00:32:52,640 --> 00:32:54,480
Speaker 2: asking if there was hiding places in the house, and

581
00:32:54,480 --> 00:32:57,800
Speaker 2: it threw me for a loop because I'm like, I mean,

582
00:32:57,880 --> 00:33:00,400
Speaker 2: my kids hide in rental places on my play hide

583
00:33:00,440 --> 00:33:00,840
Speaker 2: and Seek.

584
00:33:02,560 --> 00:33:05,800
Speaker 1: Then the police asked her about the elderly couple that

585
00:33:05,920 --> 00:33:10,520
Speaker 1: went to their church, the ones Chad wanted as clients.

586
00:33:10,920 --> 00:33:13,080
Speaker 2: Why are you asking me questions about them? And where

587
00:33:13,160 --> 00:33:13,800
Speaker 2: is my husband?

588
00:33:29,520 --> 00:33:32,000
Speaker 1: Danielle Oliver Chauve woke up in the middle of the

589
00:33:32,080 --> 00:33:35,560
Speaker 1: night on February eighth, twenty seventeen to find her house

590
00:33:35,600 --> 00:33:38,320
Speaker 1: swarmed with police and FBI agents.

591
00:33:38,840 --> 00:33:42,040
Speaker 2: Something's happening, and I have no idea why there's state

592
00:33:42,080 --> 00:33:45,280
Speaker 2: police in my house with a gunpoint at me. So

593
00:33:45,400 --> 00:33:48,280
Speaker 2: I think at that point they were suspecting me. They

594
00:33:48,280 --> 00:33:49,920
Speaker 2: thought I was involved, but.

595
00:33:49,960 --> 00:33:55,160
Speaker 1: A suspect in what Danielle would soon find out. Chand Skipper,

596
00:33:55,320 --> 00:33:58,200
Speaker 1: her husband of nearly twenty years and the father of

597
00:33:58,240 --> 00:34:02,280
Speaker 1: their six children, had come home that night. He said

598
00:34:02,320 --> 00:34:05,760
Speaker 1: he'd been renovating one of their rental properties. The police

599
00:34:05,760 --> 00:34:09,480
Speaker 1: were screaming questions at her about where Chad was, asking

600
00:34:09,560 --> 00:34:12,520
Speaker 1: if she had any hiding places in the house, and

601
00:34:12,600 --> 00:34:15,520
Speaker 1: most confusing of all, the police were asking about an

602
00:34:15,560 --> 00:34:18,800
Speaker 1: elderly couple who taught Sunday school at their church.

603
00:34:19,440 --> 00:34:21,640
Speaker 2: Why are you asking me questions about them? And where

604
00:34:21,719 --> 00:34:22,400
Speaker 2: is my husband?

605
00:34:23,160 --> 00:34:25,799
Speaker 1: The police wouldn't give her any information about what was

606
00:34:25,840 --> 00:34:28,719
Speaker 1: happening or why they were at her house, but it

607
00:34:28,760 --> 00:34:32,719
Speaker 1: was clear that whatever it was, it was urgent. The

608
00:34:32,800 --> 00:34:35,600
Speaker 1: police took her in and began a long interrogation.

609
00:34:36,719 --> 00:34:39,040
Speaker 2: I went into the interrogation room and they started asking

610
00:34:39,040 --> 00:34:43,000
Speaker 2: me questions. They asked me about this couple, and I

611
00:34:43,040 --> 00:34:46,000
Speaker 2: was thinking, that's a weird question out of the glue.

612
00:34:46,000 --> 00:34:49,240
Speaker 2: Why would you ask me specifically about these people. Yeah,

613
00:34:49,280 --> 00:34:51,200
Speaker 2: we know them for sure, We've known them for a

614
00:34:51,239 --> 00:34:51,800
Speaker 2: long time.

615
00:34:52,560 --> 00:34:56,560
Speaker 1: They were also asking questions about the family's finances, questions

616
00:34:56,680 --> 00:34:58,799
Speaker 1: Donielle just didn't have the answers to.

617
00:34:59,600 --> 00:35:04,680
Speaker 2: I shaking. I was just so confused, like why are

618
00:35:04,719 --> 00:35:07,160
Speaker 2: you asking me this? All I was worried about was

619
00:35:07,360 --> 00:35:10,359
Speaker 2: his safety, like if he was still alive. It didn't

620
00:35:10,360 --> 00:35:14,279
Speaker 2: even dawn on me that it could be what it was.

621
00:35:14,560 --> 00:35:18,239
Speaker 1: After hours of interrogation, the police let Danielle go. She

622
00:35:18,320 --> 00:35:20,520
Speaker 1: went to a friend's house where her kids were waiting

623
00:35:20,560 --> 00:35:23,719
Speaker 1: for her. She repeatedly tried to get in touch with

624
00:35:23,800 --> 00:35:28,200
Speaker 1: Chad without any reply. Then first thing the next morning,

625
00:35:28,280 --> 00:35:30,680
Speaker 1: her phone rang. It was Chad's father.

626
00:35:32,680 --> 00:35:35,359
Speaker 2: He asked me, do you know where Chad is? And

627
00:35:35,400 --> 00:35:40,600
Speaker 2: I said, no, do you I said, I don't know anything.

628
00:35:40,800 --> 00:35:42,960
Speaker 2: If you know anything, just tell me what's going on,

629
00:35:43,000 --> 00:35:45,240
Speaker 2: because I need to know what's wrong with my husband

630
00:35:45,280 --> 00:35:49,680
Speaker 2: and where he is. And his dad just said there

631
00:35:49,719 --> 00:35:53,719
Speaker 2: was a rumor going around that this couple has been kidnapped,

632
00:35:53,960 --> 00:35:59,840
Speaker 2: and the rumor is also that Chad did it. My

633
00:36:00,160 --> 00:36:05,279
Speaker 2: brain was not registering. It was like, wait, what now,

634
00:36:05,560 --> 00:36:09,160
Speaker 2: that's impossible. This is Chad. We're talking about that rumor's wrong,

635
00:36:09,960 --> 00:36:13,520
Speaker 2: and I was thinking, there's just no way that it's

636
00:36:13,560 --> 00:36:16,759
Speaker 2: actually my husband. I know my husband would never do

637
00:36:16,800 --> 00:36:19,399
Speaker 2: anything like this. That's not who he is.

638
00:36:23,760 --> 00:36:26,879
Speaker 1: Unbeknownst to anyone, that couple from their church had been

639
00:36:26,880 --> 00:36:30,240
Speaker 1: missing for three days. We're not saying their names because

640
00:36:30,320 --> 00:36:35,000
Speaker 1: Donielle wants to respect their privacy. Before this, they were friends,

641
00:36:35,440 --> 00:36:38,600
Speaker 1: and Donille believes that their story is their families to tell,

642
00:36:39,360 --> 00:36:42,200
Speaker 1: just like her story is hers to tell. So for

643
00:36:42,280 --> 00:36:46,200
Speaker 1: this episode, she's going to call them his victims.

644
00:36:47,040 --> 00:36:49,560
Speaker 2: I had known them since I had met Chad. He

645
00:36:49,600 --> 00:36:51,960
Speaker 2: had known them since the time he was born because

646
00:36:51,960 --> 00:36:55,240
Speaker 2: they were part of his church. They were our Sunday

647
00:36:55,239 --> 00:36:58,520
Speaker 2: school teachers. We would often go over to their house

648
00:36:59,360 --> 00:37:01,440
Speaker 2: and some times it would have like a pool party.

649
00:37:01,840 --> 00:37:04,520
Speaker 2: Sometimes it would be a Bible study. So we knew

650
00:37:04,520 --> 00:37:06,360
Speaker 2: them really well. They were amazing people.

651
00:37:07,680 --> 00:37:11,120
Speaker 1: The day before police raided Danielle's house, a woman had

652
00:37:11,160 --> 00:37:14,239
Speaker 1: walked into a bank and asked for a cashier's check

653
00:37:14,560 --> 00:37:17,719
Speaker 1: for three hundred and fifty thousand dollars from her own

654
00:37:17,760 --> 00:37:21,360
Speaker 1: savings account. Before the teller cut the check, the woman

655
00:37:21,440 --> 00:37:25,279
Speaker 1: slipped her note she was being held for ransom. Her

656
00:37:25,320 --> 00:37:27,840
Speaker 1: captor was waiting down the block with her husband in

657
00:37:27,880 --> 00:37:30,319
Speaker 1: the trunk. If she didn't return to the car with

658
00:37:30,440 --> 00:37:33,360
Speaker 1: the check, her kidnapper said he would kill her husband.

659
00:37:34,040 --> 00:37:36,920
Speaker 1: She needed to walk out of that bank check in hand,

660
00:37:37,640 --> 00:37:39,560
Speaker 1: so they gave it to her and let her go,

661
00:37:40,000 --> 00:37:41,839
Speaker 1: and as soon as she walked out of the door,

662
00:37:41,920 --> 00:37:45,799
Speaker 1: the teller called the police. That call initiated a statewide

663
00:37:45,880 --> 00:37:52,560
Speaker 1: search for the kidnapped couple and their captor. Immediately it

664
00:37:52,600 --> 00:37:55,080
Speaker 1: became the top story on the local news.

665
00:37:56,680 --> 00:37:59,520
Speaker 3: It all started just before five pm on Wednesday, when

666
00:37:59,520 --> 00:38:02,040
Speaker 3: the sheriff office received a call from First Trust in

667
00:38:02,120 --> 00:38:03,560
Speaker 3: Savings Bank in Albany.

668
00:38:03,760 --> 00:38:07,160
Speaker 4: The investigators are working with the FBI, state Police, and

669
00:38:07,280 --> 00:38:10,480
Speaker 4: local agencies. It's a case, they say, that will shock

670
00:38:10,560 --> 00:38:11,239
Speaker 4: this community.

671
00:38:14,760 --> 00:38:17,120
Speaker 1: The morning after the raid, Danielle was still in the

672
00:38:17,239 --> 00:38:20,840
Speaker 1: dark about what was happening. She was reeling and desperately

673
00:38:20,880 --> 00:38:23,960
Speaker 1: trying to get in touch with her husband. She didn't

674
00:38:24,000 --> 00:38:26,920
Speaker 1: want to believe the wild theory that Chad could have

675
00:38:27,040 --> 00:38:31,399
Speaker 1: kidnapped this elderly couple. That was until she saw his

676
00:38:31,520 --> 00:38:33,239
Speaker 1: picture on the news.

677
00:38:34,120 --> 00:38:38,600
Speaker 2: My whole world up flipped upside down at that moment

678
00:38:38,640 --> 00:38:41,759
Speaker 2: when I saw his picture in the police update and

679
00:38:42,640 --> 00:38:43,640
Speaker 2: what he had done.

680
00:38:44,360 --> 00:38:46,400
Speaker 1: Developing story in Whiteside County.

681
00:38:46,680 --> 00:38:50,600
Speaker 4: Investigators say they've never seen anything quite like The.

682
00:38:50,600 --> 00:38:53,520
Speaker 1: Man accused of kidnapping a couple at gunpoint from Erie,

683
00:38:53,560 --> 00:38:57,920
Speaker 1: Illinois is facing four felony charges in connection to the kidnapping.

684
00:38:58,120 --> 00:39:01,080
Speaker 4: Chad Skipper handcuffed the couple to their pa and threatened

685
00:39:01,080 --> 00:39:02,960
Speaker 4: to shoot them with his gun if they didn't pay

686
00:39:03,040 --> 00:39:04,960
Speaker 4: him three hundred and fifty thousand dollars.

687
00:39:05,320 --> 00:39:08,080
Speaker 2: At that point, all I knew was that he abducted somebody.

688
00:39:08,680 --> 00:39:11,080
Speaker 2: And that's where I just broke down and started crying

689
00:39:11,080 --> 00:39:15,160
Speaker 2: my eyes out and fell to the floor and was

690
00:39:15,280 --> 00:39:19,920
Speaker 2: just didn't know what to do.

691
00:39:20,719 --> 00:39:23,719
Speaker 1: In that moment, she understood why the police woke her

692
00:39:23,840 --> 00:39:25,160
Speaker 1: up in the middle of the night.

693
00:39:26,280 --> 00:39:28,600
Speaker 2: When the police knocked down my door asking if I

694
00:39:28,600 --> 00:39:31,680
Speaker 2: had any hiding areas in the house, I'm sure they

695
00:39:31,680 --> 00:39:35,920
Speaker 2: were looking for the people that he abducted. They were

696
00:39:35,920 --> 00:39:37,520
Speaker 2: wanting to know if there was a place in that

697
00:39:37,600 --> 00:39:42,160
Speaker 2: house where they could be hidden. As far as they know,

698
00:39:42,600 --> 00:39:48,840
Speaker 2: I know where the kidnap victims are because I'm his wife.

699
00:39:48,960 --> 00:39:51,520
Speaker 2: I mean most people would assume that the wife would know,

700
00:39:53,440 --> 00:39:55,120
Speaker 2: but I had no clue.

701
00:39:55,400 --> 00:39:58,960
Speaker 1: Over the following days and weeks, Donielle discovered the full

702
00:39:59,080 --> 00:40:01,360
Speaker 1: extent of her husb spins horrifying crimes.

703
00:40:02,920 --> 00:40:06,600
Speaker 2: This is what she learned a couple days before the

704
00:40:06,640 --> 00:40:10,799
Speaker 2: police knocked out my door. He must have gone to

705
00:40:10,920 --> 00:40:14,120
Speaker 2: their home. I think that's what the sledgehammer was for.

706
00:40:14,560 --> 00:40:17,319
Speaker 2: To break into their home. He had my daughter duct

707
00:40:17,320 --> 00:40:20,080
Speaker 2: tape it with black duct tape so that the yellow

708
00:40:20,080 --> 00:40:23,759
Speaker 2: handle wouldn't be seen in the dark. I heard that

709
00:40:23,800 --> 00:40:25,719
Speaker 2: he had a voice changer and that he was all

710
00:40:25,800 --> 00:40:29,560
Speaker 2: dressed in black. And I also heard that he broke

711
00:40:29,640 --> 00:40:33,080
Speaker 2: into their home and sat in their kitchen for several

712
00:40:33,120 --> 00:40:37,040
Speaker 2: hours before going upstairs to wake them.

713
00:40:37,600 --> 00:40:40,640
Speaker 1: He just sat in their kitchen for hours in the

714
00:40:40,640 --> 00:40:44,160
Speaker 1: middle of the night before he finally entered the bedroom

715
00:40:44,320 --> 00:40:46,240
Speaker 1: where the elderly couple was sleeping.

716
00:40:47,640 --> 00:40:54,279
Speaker 2: He tazed the guy and threatened his wife and then

717
00:40:54,320 --> 00:40:58,279
Speaker 2: said where's your God now and took them from their

718
00:40:58,320 --> 00:41:01,680
Speaker 2: home forcibly. They didn't even have a chance to get

719
00:41:01,719 --> 00:41:05,160
Speaker 2: their clothes on. And I know that he had told

720
00:41:05,200 --> 00:41:09,960
Speaker 2: them that it wasn't just him, like he threatened them,

721
00:41:10,000 --> 00:41:12,640
Speaker 2: that it was like a group of people who were

722
00:41:12,640 --> 00:41:13,040
Speaker 2: doing this.

723
00:41:14,440 --> 00:41:16,920
Speaker 1: After the police showed up at the bank. They called

724
00:41:16,960 --> 00:41:20,200
Speaker 1: in the FBI, who traced the cashier's check and found

725
00:41:20,239 --> 00:41:23,439
Speaker 1: the couple's names in address. When they searched their home,

726
00:41:23,480 --> 00:41:27,760
Speaker 1: they discovered signs of forced entry, evidence of a deployed taser,

727
00:41:28,239 --> 00:41:32,000
Speaker 1: and small drops of blood in the bedroom, but the

728
00:41:32,040 --> 00:41:36,800
Speaker 1: house was eerily quiet. No one was home. In fact,

729
00:41:37,160 --> 00:41:39,920
Speaker 1: by the time the police were alerted, no one had

730
00:41:39,960 --> 00:41:42,200
Speaker 1: heard from the couple in three days.

731
00:41:43,480 --> 00:41:46,759
Speaker 2: He had her call around and tell a false story

732
00:41:46,800 --> 00:41:49,880
Speaker 2: about them deciding to go on vacation. I think he

733
00:41:49,960 --> 00:41:51,920
Speaker 2: even took their car to the airport.

734
00:41:52,440 --> 00:41:55,920
Speaker 1: While Chad was committing this elaborate crime, Danielle was at

735
00:41:55,960 --> 00:41:59,760
Speaker 1: home taking care of their kids, going about her business

736
00:42:00,160 --> 00:42:04,719
Speaker 1: just as usual, completely unaware that her husband had violently

737
00:42:04,800 --> 00:42:09,080
Speaker 1: kidnapped their family friends and was holding them for ransom.

738
00:42:09,520 --> 00:42:12,840
Speaker 1: But where was Chad and where was he holding the couple?

739
00:42:13,760 --> 00:42:17,960
Speaker 1: Donielle had no idea. When the police were finally alerted,

740
00:42:18,200 --> 00:42:21,000
Speaker 1: they knew time was of the essence. They relied on

741
00:42:21,040 --> 00:42:24,600
Speaker 1: the FBI and state police to use all resources possible

742
00:42:24,640 --> 00:42:28,480
Speaker 1: to find the missing couple. Ransom kidnapping cases like this

743
00:42:29,120 --> 00:42:34,359
Speaker 1: often end in tragedy, especially considering the money was already exchanged.

744
00:42:35,000 --> 00:42:39,040
Speaker 1: They were running out of time. With each passing hour,

745
00:42:39,200 --> 00:42:43,279
Speaker 1: the search grew increasingly urgent. Then the FBI got its

746
00:42:43,320 --> 00:42:46,439
Speaker 1: tip about a car matching the description of the one

747
00:42:46,520 --> 00:42:49,960
Speaker 1: scene leaving the bank with the kidnap victims, a silver

748
00:42:50,120 --> 00:42:54,879
Speaker 1: nineteen ninety Chevy Caprice. But Donielle didn't know anything about

749
00:42:54,880 --> 00:42:58,799
Speaker 1: a Chevy Caprice, so maybe they had the wrong guy.

750
00:43:00,360 --> 00:43:03,279
Speaker 1: The police tracked the car down, but when they went

751
00:43:03,360 --> 00:43:08,440
Speaker 1: to pull it over, the driver sped up. It was

752
00:43:08,520 --> 00:43:10,120
Speaker 1: all over the local news.

753
00:43:10,760 --> 00:43:14,360
Speaker 3: Around four thirty am, the car crashed here outside Port Byron.

754
00:43:14,560 --> 00:43:17,040
Speaker 2: We've tried to effect a stop on that vehicle and

755
00:43:17,080 --> 00:43:18,600
Speaker 2: they took up ed had rate of speed.

756
00:43:19,000 --> 00:43:21,960
Speaker 1: The police approached the crash vehicle and found that the

757
00:43:22,040 --> 00:43:27,200
Speaker 1: driver was indeed Chad Skipper. He was injured but alive

758
00:43:27,600 --> 00:43:31,000
Speaker 1: and arrested on the spot in connection with the kidnapping.

759
00:43:32,080 --> 00:43:35,160
Speaker 1: Law enforcement was hoping to find the victims with Chad

760
00:43:35,480 --> 00:43:38,080
Speaker 1: alive in the trunk of his car, but no one

761
00:43:38,160 --> 00:43:43,480
Speaker 1: else was with him. Instead, the police found clear plastic painters, tarps,

762
00:43:43,680 --> 00:43:50,640
Speaker 1: a saw, duct tape, and a shovel. Now that Chad

763
00:43:50,719 --> 00:43:54,080
Speaker 1: was arrested, the only priority was finding the missing couple.

764
00:43:55,000 --> 00:43:57,600
Speaker 1: There were still a few places the police hadn't searched

765
00:43:58,080 --> 00:44:02,840
Speaker 1: Chad's rental properties. After he was arrested, Chad gave police

766
00:44:02,880 --> 00:44:06,320
Speaker 1: the address where he said the couple was being held.

767
00:44:07,480 --> 00:44:10,440
Speaker 2: When he was arrested. I thought that house was still rented,

768
00:44:11,000 --> 00:44:13,279
Speaker 2: like I thought people were in the house renting it

769
00:44:13,320 --> 00:44:13,719
Speaker 2: from us.

770
00:44:15,440 --> 00:44:18,839
Speaker 1: When police showed up, it looked like a construction zone.

771
00:44:18,920 --> 00:44:22,360
Speaker 1: The surfaces were covered in sawdust and power tools, The

772
00:44:22,400 --> 00:44:25,040
Speaker 1: doors were taking off their hinges, and there was a

773
00:44:25,120 --> 00:44:27,719
Speaker 1: ladder in the middle of the living room. But it

774
00:44:27,880 --> 00:44:31,719
Speaker 1: also looked like someone had been squatting there. There was

775
00:44:31,920 --> 00:44:36,480
Speaker 1: trash everywhere, plates of half eaten food, Electronic wires and

776
00:44:36,520 --> 00:44:40,799
Speaker 1: cables dangled from the outlets. Police searched every room, but

777
00:44:40,880 --> 00:44:43,400
Speaker 1: no one seemed to be in the house. Then they

778
00:44:43,480 --> 00:44:46,600
Speaker 1: double checked the bedroom, where they took a closer look

779
00:44:46,640 --> 00:44:51,000
Speaker 1: at a computer monitor laying on the floor. It appeared

780
00:44:51,040 --> 00:44:54,960
Speaker 1: to show a surveillance feed six live feed images of

781
00:44:55,000 --> 00:44:58,360
Speaker 1: a windowless room where two figures were lying on a

782
00:44:58,440 --> 00:45:02,879
Speaker 1: mattress covered by blankets. On the wall next to them

783
00:45:03,200 --> 00:45:10,719
Speaker 1: were hooks and shackles. There was a secret room somewhere

784
00:45:10,760 --> 00:45:28,200
Speaker 1: in this house, and Chad's victims were in there. The

785
00:45:28,360 --> 00:45:31,440
Speaker 1: night of Chad's arrest, police began searching one of his

786
00:45:31,480 --> 00:45:35,000
Speaker 1: rental properties for a secret room, a dungeon where he

787
00:45:35,080 --> 00:45:38,879
Speaker 1: was holding two people captive. From what they could see

788
00:45:38,920 --> 00:45:42,160
Speaker 1: on the surveillance feed, it was a windowless room somewhere

789
00:45:42,160 --> 00:45:46,120
Speaker 1: in the house. The couple was lying motionless on a mattress.

790
00:45:46,680 --> 00:45:51,080
Speaker 1: It wasn't clear if they were alive, but then one

791
00:45:51,120 --> 00:45:54,360
Speaker 1: of the FBI agents moved a dresser in the closet

792
00:45:54,680 --> 00:45:58,000
Speaker 1: and lifted up a piece of carpeting to reveal a

793
00:45:58,080 --> 00:45:59,680
Speaker 1: locked steel hatch.

794
00:46:00,360 --> 00:46:05,919
Speaker 2: And the only entry and exit to that dungeon room

795
00:46:06,280 --> 00:46:08,239
Speaker 2: was through a steel trap door with a lock on

796
00:46:08,280 --> 00:46:12,440
Speaker 2: the outside in a closet hidden under the dresser or something.

797
00:46:13,040 --> 00:46:17,960
Speaker 2: He walled it off with cement blocks and soundproofing. You

798
00:46:17,960 --> 00:46:19,520
Speaker 2: would only know it was there if you knew it

799
00:46:19,560 --> 00:46:19,919
Speaker 2: was there.

800
00:46:20,480 --> 00:46:23,440
Speaker 1: Police used boltcutters to open the door. They found an

801
00:46:23,480 --> 00:46:26,960
Speaker 1: eight foot drop into a dark, windowless room, and they

802
00:46:27,000 --> 00:46:32,560
Speaker 1: went in. That's where they discovered the couple, miraculously still alive.

803
00:46:34,200 --> 00:46:38,239
Speaker 1: They had been tortured and chained. Chad said he had

804
00:46:38,280 --> 00:46:42,200
Speaker 1: people watching their kids and grandkids, so if they tried

805
00:46:42,239 --> 00:46:45,840
Speaker 1: to escape or get help. He would kill them.

806
00:46:47,520 --> 00:46:50,440
Speaker 2: They were in that dungeon for a couple of days.

807
00:46:53,560 --> 00:46:57,759
Speaker 2: I can't even imagine thinking that you're going to die,

808
00:46:57,840 --> 00:47:00,480
Speaker 2: thinking that your children are going to die up on

809
00:47:00,560 --> 00:47:04,239
Speaker 2: this thing, your hands up in the air for so

810
00:47:04,320 --> 00:47:08,440
Speaker 2: many hours that you're basically shaking and can't even stand,

811
00:47:09,360 --> 00:47:11,920
Speaker 2: and having their kids and grandkids threatened.

812
00:47:13,280 --> 00:47:16,200
Speaker 1: Once he got the money, he was planning to kill them.

813
00:47:16,520 --> 00:47:19,040
Speaker 2: I mean, what's he going to do? Go, oh, I'm

814
00:47:19,040 --> 00:47:23,280
Speaker 2: going to let you go now, forgive me. Everything's fine.

815
00:47:23,520 --> 00:47:24,680
Speaker 2: How else could it end?

816
00:47:25,640 --> 00:47:28,840
Speaker 1: And judging by the contents of his car, it seemed

817
00:47:28,840 --> 00:47:34,920
Speaker 1: like he meant it. This what if still haunts Donielle.

818
00:47:35,360 --> 00:47:39,640
Speaker 1: Chad was charged with felony, home invasion, aggravated kidnapping, an

819
00:47:39,719 --> 00:47:46,759
Speaker 1: unlawful restraint. His bail was set at a million dollars overnight.

820
00:47:46,880 --> 00:47:49,440
Speaker 1: Danielle had to reckon with the fact that her husband

821
00:47:49,600 --> 00:47:52,600
Speaker 1: of nearly two decades and the father of her children

822
00:47:53,160 --> 00:47:57,200
Speaker 1: was capable of a violent crime. In addition to processing

823
00:47:57,239 --> 00:48:01,239
Speaker 1: that shock, she didn't understand why was it all for

824
00:48:01,320 --> 00:48:01,760
Speaker 1: the money.

825
00:48:02,600 --> 00:48:05,799
Speaker 2: I didn't know that we were having financial trouble. I'm

826
00:48:05,800 --> 00:48:09,120
Speaker 2: a penny pincher, so I don't know where all the

827
00:48:09,160 --> 00:48:11,319
Speaker 2: money was going, and I don't know why he needed that.

828
00:48:12,040 --> 00:48:17,720
Speaker 1: To answer that question, Danielle started looking through Chad's basement office. There,

829
00:48:17,800 --> 00:48:22,640
Speaker 1: she made a series of shocking discoveries. First, why he

830
00:48:22,719 --> 00:48:24,200
Speaker 1: targeted the people he did.

831
00:48:25,080 --> 00:48:30,840
Speaker 2: He had gotten a hold of their finances and knew

832
00:48:31,640 --> 00:48:34,960
Speaker 2: how much they had in the bank because he had

833
00:48:35,000 --> 00:48:38,759
Speaker 2: asked them to be clients of his for his fake

834
00:48:38,840 --> 00:48:39,680
Speaker 2: financial business.

835
00:48:40,239 --> 00:48:44,279
Speaker 1: His fake financial business. She also found out that he

836
00:48:44,400 --> 00:48:48,759
Speaker 1: was never actually a certified financial advisor or planner, so

837
00:48:48,880 --> 00:48:51,680
Speaker 1: what did he do for a living? From what she

838
00:48:51,800 --> 00:48:55,640
Speaker 1: gathered in his office, he charmed elderly people into letting

839
00:48:55,719 --> 00:48:58,839
Speaker 1: him be their financial advisor, where he would skim from

840
00:48:58,840 --> 00:49:02,960
Speaker 1: their accounts for years. In fact, after he was arrested,

841
00:49:03,160 --> 00:49:06,880
Speaker 1: his own parents sued him for stealing over four hundred

842
00:49:07,040 --> 00:49:11,000
Speaker 1: thousand dollars while he claimed to serve as their financial advisor.

843
00:49:12,360 --> 00:49:15,320
Speaker 1: But not only did he steal from his own parents,

844
00:49:15,840 --> 00:49:18,080
Speaker 1: he also stole from his grandmother.

845
00:49:19,320 --> 00:49:22,720
Speaker 2: It was around that same amount, something like three hundred thousand.

846
00:49:23,800 --> 00:49:26,200
Speaker 2: Maybe he felt like he needed to steal that from

847
00:49:26,680 --> 00:49:30,000
Speaker 2: his victims in order to repay the money that he

848
00:49:30,040 --> 00:49:33,480
Speaker 2: had stolen from his grandma.

849
00:49:34,080 --> 00:49:37,360
Speaker 1: He never confessed to this, but it added up for Dannielle.

850
00:49:37,880 --> 00:49:41,320
Speaker 1: What never made sense, though, was the construction of the dungeon.

851
00:49:41,719 --> 00:49:45,400
Speaker 2: I found the plans and bills from it in his office.

852
00:49:45,680 --> 00:49:48,560
Speaker 1: Chad had been hiring a contractor to build the dungeon

853
00:49:48,680 --> 00:49:51,400
Speaker 1: piece by piece over the past two years.

854
00:49:53,080 --> 00:49:56,920
Speaker 2: I can't even imagine how much that cost. It had

855
00:49:56,920 --> 00:49:59,400
Speaker 2: it been thousands upon thousands, and I don't think the

856
00:49:59,520 --> 00:50:00,960
Speaker 2: person who did it ever got paid.

857
00:50:01,160 --> 00:50:05,520
Speaker 1: Honestly, the shocking fact that he built a dungeon to

858
00:50:05,600 --> 00:50:09,120
Speaker 1: hold the kidnapping victims kept the story in the headlines

859
00:50:09,160 --> 00:50:09,680
Speaker 1: for months.

860
00:50:10,080 --> 00:50:13,760
Speaker 2: In a newsad exclusive Tonight, investigative reporter Chris Miner shows

861
00:50:13,800 --> 00:50:16,680
Speaker 2: us a photo of that actual room where it's believed

862
00:50:16,680 --> 00:50:18,560
Speaker 2: the couple was held against their will.

863
00:50:21,239 --> 00:50:24,440
Speaker 1: Danielle never slept another night in the big house that

864
00:50:24,560 --> 00:50:27,200
Speaker 1: she and Chad had shared with their kids.

865
00:50:27,640 --> 00:50:30,440
Speaker 2: I did not want the kids to be back in

866
00:50:30,520 --> 00:50:34,400
Speaker 2: the house, knowing that he had done that, knowing that

867
00:50:35,160 --> 00:50:38,759
Speaker 2: he was capable of kidnapping people that he's known for

868
00:50:38,800 --> 00:50:42,440
Speaker 2: his whole life. I didn't want them back into that house,

869
00:50:42,520 --> 00:50:44,120
Speaker 2: and I didn't want to live in that house anymore.

870
00:50:45,440 --> 00:50:47,719
Speaker 1: She and her kids moved into her parents' home while

871
00:50:47,760 --> 00:50:51,399
Speaker 1: she got her bearings. For the first few months after

872
00:50:51,520 --> 00:50:54,920
Speaker 1: Chad's arrest, Danielle's dad would accompany her to the old

873
00:50:54,960 --> 00:50:59,280
Speaker 1: house to continue excavating Chad's office. The police had already

874
00:50:59,280 --> 00:51:02,080
Speaker 1: collected the other they needed, and she was left to

875
00:51:02,120 --> 00:51:03,040
Speaker 1: clean up the rest.

876
00:51:03,520 --> 00:51:05,239
Speaker 2: Every day that we went into his office, there was

877
00:51:05,280 --> 00:51:08,919
Speaker 2: another thing, well, he lied about this next day. Oh,

878
00:51:09,040 --> 00:51:13,080
Speaker 2: he lied about that too. I remember at one point

879
00:51:13,160 --> 00:51:15,080
Speaker 2: we were both looking at each other on our way

880
00:51:15,120 --> 00:51:17,840
Speaker 2: to the house, thinking, I wonder what else we're going

881
00:51:17,920 --> 00:51:20,960
Speaker 2: to find in his office today? What else could there be?

882
00:51:23,160 --> 00:51:24,520
Speaker 1: There was insurance fraud.

883
00:51:25,320 --> 00:51:26,960
Speaker 2: One of the things we found in his office was

884
00:51:27,000 --> 00:51:30,400
Speaker 2: that he actually claimed that my wedding ring was lost

885
00:51:31,000 --> 00:51:35,640
Speaker 2: and took insurance out for it. So even our wedding

886
00:51:35,680 --> 00:51:37,400
Speaker 2: ring he lied about.

887
00:51:38,760 --> 00:51:40,080
Speaker 1: There was credit card fraud.

888
00:51:40,880 --> 00:51:44,799
Speaker 2: He had fraudulently signed credit cards in his dad's name.

889
00:51:45,360 --> 00:51:48,520
Speaker 2: He'd gotten credit cards in my name, he had forged

890
00:51:48,560 --> 00:51:48,919
Speaker 2: my name.

891
00:51:49,560 --> 00:51:54,280
Speaker 1: She also found lies about herself, stories she'd never heard before.

892
00:51:56,960 --> 00:52:01,319
Speaker 2: We found several papers that had conversations written down on

893
00:52:01,360 --> 00:52:04,680
Speaker 2: them that had lies about me, as far as like

894
00:52:04,800 --> 00:52:10,759
Speaker 2: I had to go have a brain surgery in Minnesota

895
00:52:10,840 --> 00:52:13,080
Speaker 2: or somewhere. It just, you know, lies like that in

896
00:52:13,160 --> 00:52:16,360
Speaker 2: order to gain control or gain sympathy from the people

897
00:52:16,360 --> 00:52:20,839
Speaker 2: that he was talking to. There were just like conversations

898
00:52:20,840 --> 00:52:23,160
Speaker 2: written down on a piece of paper. Some of them

899
00:52:23,160 --> 00:52:26,719
Speaker 2: were to credit card companies because it was with credit

900
00:52:26,800 --> 00:52:30,840
Speaker 2: card stuff. Some of it was two different potential clients

901
00:52:30,880 --> 00:52:31,759
Speaker 2: that he was going to have.

902
00:52:32,440 --> 00:52:36,800
Speaker 1: And some things she discovered were just suspicious.

903
00:52:37,760 --> 00:52:41,680
Speaker 2: Hiking boots that he never wore, a wet suit that

904
00:52:41,880 --> 00:52:45,160
Speaker 2: was still wet and had a little bit of dirt

905
00:52:45,239 --> 00:52:49,000
Speaker 2: on the cuff, and you know, it's like he didn't

906
00:52:49,000 --> 00:52:52,560
Speaker 2: ever go scuba diving, so why does he have a

907
00:52:52,600 --> 00:52:55,040
Speaker 2: wet suit? And where would he have used the wetsuit

908
00:52:55,600 --> 00:53:01,279
Speaker 2: in the Mississippi River. You know, just strange things that

909
00:53:01,280 --> 00:53:02,360
Speaker 2: we never found an answer to.

910
00:53:04,960 --> 00:53:07,480
Speaker 1: One of the most haunting things she found in his

911
00:53:07,560 --> 00:53:11,200
Speaker 1: office was a set of life insurance policies on everyone

912
00:53:11,360 --> 00:53:14,960
Speaker 1: in their family, policies she never knew existed.

913
00:53:16,560 --> 00:53:19,200
Speaker 2: He had life insurance policies out on me and the kids.

914
00:53:19,920 --> 00:53:22,239
Speaker 2: I think mine was a million, and I think my

915
00:53:22,360 --> 00:53:25,880
Speaker 2: kids were a quarter of a million each. It messes

916
00:53:25,920 --> 00:53:29,200
Speaker 2: with your mind really hard. I never felt like I

917
00:53:29,280 --> 00:53:31,240
Speaker 2: was threatened or my kids were threatened for our lives.

918
00:53:31,600 --> 00:53:34,160
Speaker 2: It was only after his arrest and when we started

919
00:53:34,160 --> 00:53:38,080
Speaker 2: going through the stuff in his office that I was like, WHOA.

920
00:53:38,719 --> 00:53:41,440
Speaker 2: If I had confronted him about any of this stuff,

921
00:53:41,480 --> 00:53:44,279
Speaker 2: if I had known about it, I don't think I

922
00:53:44,280 --> 00:53:44,879
Speaker 2: would be here.

923
00:53:46,440 --> 00:53:50,960
Speaker 1: Donielle didn't want his explanations. She cooperated with the police

924
00:53:51,000 --> 00:53:54,240
Speaker 1: and prosecutors and gave them any evidence they needed.

925
00:53:54,800 --> 00:53:56,920
Speaker 2: One of the things that the police told me is

926
00:53:56,960 --> 00:53:59,880
Speaker 2: that in all of their cases, they said they have

927
00:54:00,200 --> 00:54:02,520
Speaker 2: never come across a case that was so kind ride

928
00:54:02,960 --> 00:54:06,960
Speaker 2: with the amount of evidence for this guy, I was like, wow,

929
00:54:07,160 --> 00:54:08,800
Speaker 2: and he thought he was so smart.

930
00:54:09,520 --> 00:54:12,439
Speaker 1: She sent him one letter in jail where she said

931
00:54:12,480 --> 00:54:14,919
Speaker 1: she would be praying for him but needed to cut

932
00:54:14,960 --> 00:54:20,400
Speaker 1: off communication. After that, she filed for divorce, but letters

933
00:54:20,400 --> 00:54:24,680
Speaker 1: from Chad never stopped coming. Every few weeks there'd be

934
00:54:24,719 --> 00:54:27,040
Speaker 1: that distinctive envelope in their mailbox.

935
00:54:28,200 --> 00:54:30,080
Speaker 2: Every time I got a letter from him, my whole

936
00:54:30,120 --> 00:54:34,480
Speaker 2: body would just shake. I would get sweaty palms, hard

937
00:54:34,480 --> 00:54:36,880
Speaker 2: to breathe. But as soon as I saw that envelope,

938
00:54:36,920 --> 00:54:39,000
Speaker 2: I'm like, not another one.

939
00:54:39,560 --> 00:54:43,200
Speaker 1: She never replied, hoping his letters would finally stop coming.

940
00:54:43,760 --> 00:54:46,160
Speaker 1: But one day she got a letter that was different

941
00:54:46,200 --> 00:54:47,360
Speaker 1: from the others.

942
00:54:48,719 --> 00:54:51,600
Speaker 2: On the outside of the envelope, it was not addressed

943
00:54:51,920 --> 00:54:56,239
Speaker 2: as him. It was addressed as Eloisa May. And that

944
00:54:56,360 --> 00:54:58,560
Speaker 2: threw me because I'm like, well, this is definitely a

945
00:54:58,640 --> 00:55:02,200
Speaker 2: letter from that jail. Eloisa May is kind of weird.

946
00:55:02,239 --> 00:55:04,640
Speaker 2: I don't know in Eloisa May. And there was no

947
00:55:04,920 --> 00:55:08,480
Speaker 2: like i'd return address. It was just the name. And

948
00:55:08,520 --> 00:55:10,520
Speaker 2: so when I opened it and it wasn't in his

949
00:55:10,600 --> 00:55:13,680
Speaker 2: writing either, I was thinking, Okay, that's weird too, there's

950
00:55:13,680 --> 00:55:17,240
Speaker 2: something off. The whole letter is written in this weird

951
00:55:18,080 --> 00:55:23,160
Speaker 2: Southern accent. I felt like I was reading Huckleberry Finn.

952
00:55:24,200 --> 00:55:25,640
Speaker 1: This is how the letter began.

953
00:55:26,480 --> 00:55:28,719
Speaker 2: How do you there, missye? My name is Eloisa May.

954
00:55:29,600 --> 00:55:32,200
Speaker 2: You don't know me, honey child, but maybe we can

955
00:55:32,280 --> 00:55:34,320
Speaker 2: remedy that with this here letter.

956
00:55:50,000 --> 00:55:53,120
Speaker 1: While Chad sat in jail, Danielle was trying to rebuild

957
00:55:53,200 --> 00:55:56,280
Speaker 1: her life. That's when she began to get strange letters

958
00:55:56,320 --> 00:55:59,520
Speaker 1: in the mail. The return address just said the name

959
00:56:00,040 --> 00:56:03,440
Speaker 1: Eloisa May. This is what the letters were about.

960
00:56:03,960 --> 00:56:08,480
Speaker 2: It's this fake character who supposedly lives I think in

961
00:56:08,640 --> 00:56:12,960
Speaker 2: Arkansas or something. But she moved to Illinois, because her

962
00:56:13,040 --> 00:56:15,560
Speaker 2: daughter is in Illinois. She had a stroke and so

963
00:56:15,640 --> 00:56:18,319
Speaker 2: now she's in the hospital and she came across my

964
00:56:18,440 --> 00:56:23,520
Speaker 2: story and she starts telling me how her husband was

965
00:56:24,040 --> 00:56:28,719
Speaker 2: an alcoholic and at one point he physically abused her,

966
00:56:28,760 --> 00:56:30,520
Speaker 2: and so she left him and went to live with

967
00:56:30,560 --> 00:56:31,160
Speaker 2: his parents.

968
00:56:32,120 --> 00:56:37,160
Speaker 1: Finally, Chad or eloise A May got to the point she.

969
00:56:37,160 --> 00:56:40,480
Speaker 2: Ended up deciding to get a divorce because you know,

970
00:56:40,520 --> 00:56:44,120
Speaker 2: she didn't want to do with his abusive, addictive issues.

971
00:56:44,760 --> 00:56:48,600
Speaker 2: He ended up killing himself, and because of her decision

972
00:56:48,600 --> 00:56:50,919
Speaker 2: to get a divorce, her daughter and son are having

973
00:56:51,040 --> 00:56:54,400
Speaker 2: issues in their lives and they take the blame for

974
00:56:54,480 --> 00:56:58,680
Speaker 2: him dying. I felt like it was a threat. If

975
00:56:58,680 --> 00:57:00,560
Speaker 2: you divorce me, I'm going to kill my and your

976
00:57:00,640 --> 00:57:04,719
Speaker 2: kids are gonna feel like it was their fault. That's

977
00:57:04,760 --> 00:57:06,080
Speaker 2: the feeling I got from the letter.

978
00:57:08,239 --> 00:57:11,840
Speaker 1: The letters were four five six pages long, written in

979
00:57:11,920 --> 00:57:15,160
Speaker 1: a tiny, neat handwriting that didn't look like Chad's at all.

980
00:57:15,760 --> 00:57:19,160
Speaker 1: She assumed that either he was disguising his handwriting or

981
00:57:19,240 --> 00:57:21,560
Speaker 1: got someone in the jail to write it for him

982
00:57:21,600 --> 00:57:25,480
Speaker 1: while he dictated. Either way, the character Chad was putting

983
00:57:25,520 --> 00:57:28,120
Speaker 1: on was so transparently manipulative.

984
00:57:28,640 --> 00:57:30,920
Speaker 2: He didn't directly say how can you divorce me, but

985
00:57:31,160 --> 00:57:35,560
Speaker 2: through the character of Eloisa, May was basically saying that.

986
00:57:36,560 --> 00:57:39,760
Speaker 1: She suspects that he made the character Southern to try

987
00:57:39,800 --> 00:57:43,439
Speaker 1: to pull on Danielle's heartstrings because her grandmother was from

988
00:57:43,480 --> 00:57:43,960
Speaker 1: the South.

989
00:57:44,480 --> 00:57:47,400
Speaker 2: A little bit later, he goes, I feel the Good

990
00:57:47,440 --> 00:57:49,880
Speaker 2: Lord telling me to do something, and I got a

991
00:57:49,920 --> 00:57:54,720
Speaker 2: little eager. Danielle sugar and May, I declare Darlin. That

992
00:57:54,880 --> 00:57:57,400
Speaker 2: is one of the most beautiful and unique names I've

993
00:57:57,440 --> 00:57:59,960
Speaker 2: ever heard. Something we have in common, sweetie.

994
00:58:01,080 --> 00:58:04,320
Speaker 1: Chad also used his extensive knowledge of the Bible to

995
00:58:04,400 --> 00:58:06,880
Speaker 1: try and make Danielle question her decisions.

996
00:58:07,600 --> 00:58:10,640
Speaker 2: He basically has a sermon in there and quotes Bible

997
00:58:10,680 --> 00:58:14,480
Speaker 2: passages about God hates divorce and gives me examples of

998
00:58:14,520 --> 00:58:17,960
Speaker 2: different characters in the Bible who wanted to get a

999
00:58:17,960 --> 00:58:21,360
Speaker 2: divorce but didn't because it's not the right thing to do.

1000
00:58:23,000 --> 00:58:26,160
Speaker 1: The Eloise and May letters almost amused her, but they

1001
00:58:26,200 --> 00:58:29,200
Speaker 1: also felt like an insult. Did he really think she

1002
00:58:29,240 --> 00:58:30,080
Speaker 1: would fall for this?

1003
00:58:31,000 --> 00:58:33,640
Speaker 2: I think he had a very very low opinion of

1004
00:58:33,680 --> 00:58:38,920
Speaker 2: me art still does. I struggle with that with my

1005
00:58:38,960 --> 00:58:45,840
Speaker 2: marriage too, because he treated me like a child.

1006
00:58:46,880 --> 00:58:49,480
Speaker 1: She kept the aloeis in May letters to remind herself

1007
00:58:49,560 --> 00:58:54,400
Speaker 1: of just how delusional and scheming Chad really was. A

1008
00:58:54,480 --> 00:58:58,280
Speaker 1: year after his arrest, Chad pled guilty, but before he

1009
00:58:58,320 --> 00:59:01,280
Speaker 1: faced a sentencing hearing for the kid napping, they had

1010
00:59:01,400 --> 00:59:02,360
Speaker 1: their divorce trial.

1011
00:59:03,520 --> 00:59:07,520
Speaker 2: He actually did not have a lawyer to do those proceedings.

1012
00:59:08,040 --> 00:59:12,800
Speaker 2: He was pro se and so he questioned me on

1013
00:59:12,880 --> 00:59:16,680
Speaker 2: the stand, which was really really nerve wreaking.

1014
00:59:17,080 --> 00:59:21,120
Speaker 1: Danielle was awarded full custody, and shortly after she attended

1015
00:59:21,120 --> 00:59:25,640
Speaker 1: her ex husband's sentencing hearing. It started with the victim's statements.

1016
00:59:26,240 --> 00:59:31,160
Speaker 2: There were no dry eyes in that courtroom. There are

1017
00:59:31,200 --> 00:59:31,920
Speaker 2: amazing people.

1018
00:59:33,160 --> 00:59:37,360
Speaker 1: The judge was done by Chad's crime, especially the premeditation

1019
00:59:37,480 --> 00:59:40,240
Speaker 1: that had gone into building the dungeon and the torture

1020
00:59:40,240 --> 00:59:41,320
Speaker 1: of the victims endured.

1021
00:59:42,120 --> 00:59:45,040
Speaker 2: From what the judge said when he sentenced him, he

1022
00:59:45,160 --> 00:59:50,080
Speaker 2: wanted people to know this is not acceptable in society.

1023
00:59:50,200 --> 00:59:55,240
Speaker 2: It's heinous. You can't just do that type of a

1024
00:59:55,280 --> 00:59:57,360
Speaker 2: crime and get away with it.

1025
00:59:57,760 --> 01:00:01,120
Speaker 1: The judge gave Chad the maximum sentence possible.

1026
01:00:01,520 --> 01:00:04,440
Speaker 2: Today Chad Skipper, in a packed courtroom, listened as he

1027
01:00:04,480 --> 01:00:07,040
Speaker 2: awaited his jail sentence sixty years.

1028
01:00:07,200 --> 01:00:08,600
Speaker 3: The rest of his life in prison.

1029
01:00:09,680 --> 01:00:12,360
Speaker 2: I was thinking he was only going to get twenty years,

1030
01:00:12,720 --> 01:00:15,560
Speaker 2: and so when it was sixty, I was surprised.

1031
01:00:16,800 --> 01:00:21,960
Speaker 1: Surprised, but grateful. She sees how dangerous Chad is and

1032
01:00:22,040 --> 01:00:25,840
Speaker 1: doesn't want him anywhere near her or their children ever again.

1033
01:00:27,040 --> 01:00:31,640
Speaker 1: She says she forgives him, but forgiveness can include boundaries.

1034
01:00:32,400 --> 01:00:34,800
Speaker 2: I have a big, big problem with some of the

1035
01:00:34,840 --> 01:00:42,840
Speaker 2: ways that Christian pastors portray forgiveness that every marriage, one

1036
01:00:42,920 --> 01:00:49,200
Speaker 2: hundred percent of marriages can be resolved. And I was like,

1037
01:00:49,880 --> 01:00:54,920
Speaker 2: that is very very untrue and very very dangerous to

1038
01:00:54,960 --> 01:01:01,480
Speaker 2: say if there's an abuse happening, that's not true.

1039
01:01:02,360 --> 01:01:06,040
Speaker 1: Danielle decided to stay in that small town of Eerie, Illinois.

1040
01:01:06,520 --> 01:01:10,080
Speaker 1: Chad's victims still live there too, and Donnielle has seen

1041
01:01:10,120 --> 01:01:10,960
Speaker 1: them around town.

1042
01:01:11,760 --> 01:01:14,760
Speaker 2: I have seen them, Yeah, I've seen them seeing their kids.

1043
01:01:15,160 --> 01:01:17,560
Speaker 2: You know. I smile at them when they see me.

1044
01:01:17,800 --> 01:01:20,040
Speaker 2: I don't know if they recognize me or not. I

1045
01:01:20,080 --> 01:01:23,520
Speaker 2: don't know if they see me when I see them.

1046
01:01:23,960 --> 01:01:24,800
Speaker 2: I really don't know.

1047
01:01:26,040 --> 01:01:29,200
Speaker 1: She's even thought about reaching out to apologize for the

1048
01:01:29,280 --> 01:01:32,040
Speaker 1: pain her husband caused and to grieve with them.

1049
01:01:32,680 --> 01:01:36,440
Speaker 2: I would love to talk to them directly. I haven't

1050
01:01:36,840 --> 01:01:40,560
Speaker 2: because when I was speaking with my lawyer and also

1051
01:01:40,840 --> 01:01:44,800
Speaker 2: the police even said something about don't reach out, and

1052
01:01:44,880 --> 01:01:48,200
Speaker 2: so I've I just kind of like took a step back.

1053
01:01:48,720 --> 01:01:50,840
Speaker 2: I don't even know what their thoughts are towards me,

1054
01:01:51,840 --> 01:01:53,880
Speaker 2: if they feel like I was part of it, or

1055
01:01:53,920 --> 01:01:56,960
Speaker 2: if they know that I had no idea what was

1056
01:01:57,000 --> 01:01:59,720
Speaker 2: going on. One of the reasons why I haven't reached

1057
01:01:59,720 --> 01:02:01,560
Speaker 2: out is because I really don't want to cause of

1058
01:02:01,640 --> 01:02:02,120
Speaker 2: more pain.

1059
01:02:03,720 --> 01:02:07,480
Speaker 1: Some people in their community just didn't believe that Danielle

1060
01:02:07,560 --> 01:02:09,720
Speaker 1: was in the dark about her husband's double life.

1061
01:02:10,640 --> 01:02:14,160
Speaker 2: When you first was arrested, there were some posts on

1062
01:02:14,160 --> 01:02:16,880
Speaker 2: Facebook about it. People were saying, oh she knew, and

1063
01:02:16,920 --> 01:02:17,840
Speaker 2: all that kind of stuff.

1064
01:02:18,320 --> 01:02:21,680
Speaker 1: Around town. She's noticed that people don't smile and wave

1065
01:02:21,960 --> 01:02:23,080
Speaker 1: as much as they used to.

1066
01:02:23,880 --> 01:02:26,640
Speaker 2: I haven't had anybody approach me and accuse me of anything.

1067
01:02:27,280 --> 01:02:29,720
Speaker 2: It's just, you know, when you're walking around in a

1068
01:02:29,720 --> 01:02:34,760
Speaker 2: small town sometimes you get looks, just kind of a

1069
01:02:34,880 --> 01:02:38,600
Speaker 2: weird side look, like I know who you are, don't

1070
01:02:38,640 --> 01:02:40,280
Speaker 2: look at me, don't interact with me.

1071
01:02:40,960 --> 01:02:44,000
Speaker 1: She's had to reckon with blaming herself for not knowing

1072
01:02:44,040 --> 01:02:47,680
Speaker 1: who her husband actually was and what he was really

1073
01:02:47,720 --> 01:02:50,400
Speaker 1: doing all those nights he claimed to be in the

1074
01:02:50,440 --> 01:02:51,320
Speaker 1: basement working.

1075
01:02:52,400 --> 01:02:55,240
Speaker 2: I couldn't have known. He didn't show that part of

1076
01:02:55,320 --> 01:02:59,480
Speaker 2: himself to me. All I know is the life that

1077
01:02:59,560 --> 01:03:02,919
Speaker 2: he had with me and our kids. That's all I saw.

1078
01:03:03,760 --> 01:03:08,440
Speaker 2: He was able to do everything else completely separate. I

1079
01:03:08,480 --> 01:03:10,919
Speaker 2: can't blame myself for something that he did without me knowing.

1080
01:03:14,240 --> 01:03:17,440
Speaker 1: As part of her healing process, she's learned about people

1081
01:03:17,520 --> 01:03:21,720
Speaker 1: like Chad and the tactics they use, tactics that felt

1082
01:03:21,840 --> 01:03:22,600
Speaker 1: very familiar.

1083
01:03:23,520 --> 01:03:25,600
Speaker 2: When I was doing my studies of narciss to behavior.

1084
01:03:26,080 --> 01:03:27,880
Speaker 2: One of the things that really spoke to me was

1085
01:03:27,920 --> 01:03:31,680
Speaker 2: a thing called word salad, and I totally was like, Yep,

1086
01:03:31,920 --> 01:03:37,120
Speaker 2: that's exactly what it was, just words that twist. Anything

1087
01:03:37,160 --> 01:03:39,120
Speaker 2: that I said, he would twist it around and jumbled

1088
01:03:39,120 --> 01:03:40,880
Speaker 2: it up like a salad and then shoot it back

1089
01:03:40,920 --> 01:03:43,200
Speaker 2: at me, and my mind would just be like, I

1090
01:03:43,240 --> 01:03:44,520
Speaker 2: don't even know what's going on.

1091
01:03:45,640 --> 01:03:48,600
Speaker 1: These kinds of things helped her understand how he had

1092
01:03:48,600 --> 01:03:52,400
Speaker 1: subtly manipulated her for so long, but that didn't ease

1093
01:03:52,480 --> 01:03:55,760
Speaker 1: the self blame or the sense that she couldn't trust

1094
01:03:55,880 --> 01:03:58,400
Speaker 1: anyone around her, or even herself.

1095
01:03:59,440 --> 01:04:01,120
Speaker 2: If my hus then can pull the wool over my

1096
01:04:01,160 --> 01:04:03,440
Speaker 2: eyes so easily, and I thought that he was an

1097
01:04:03,440 --> 01:04:09,360
Speaker 2: amazing person. Does that mean that this amazing person can

1098
01:04:09,360 --> 01:04:12,000
Speaker 2: also pull the wool over my eyes? Like? What are

1099
01:04:12,000 --> 01:04:15,480
Speaker 2: they actually behind closed doors? Are they the person that

1100
01:04:15,520 --> 01:04:20,880
Speaker 2: they are presenting to me as a loving brother, a

1101
01:04:20,920 --> 01:04:25,400
Speaker 2: loving friend? But then when we are not in each

1102
01:04:25,400 --> 01:04:30,880
Speaker 2: other's presence, are they somebody else? Like? Okay, this pastor

1103
01:04:30,920 --> 01:04:33,600
Speaker 2: seems like he is everything that a pastor should be.

1104
01:04:34,920 --> 01:04:37,520
Speaker 2: But now that I've been through what I've been through,

1105
01:04:38,680 --> 01:04:42,160
Speaker 2: is he who he says he is? Or is this

1106
01:04:42,360 --> 01:04:44,280
Speaker 2: just his presentation of who he says he is.

1107
01:04:45,120 --> 01:04:48,320
Speaker 1: For Donielle, trusting the wrong person building a life with

1108
01:04:48,360 --> 01:04:51,440
Speaker 1: them left her all alone and a single parent.

1109
01:04:52,360 --> 01:04:56,919
Speaker 2: All the weight of the responsibility is now mine because

1110
01:04:56,960 --> 01:04:58,440
Speaker 2: I know I had six kids and I had to

1111
01:04:58,440 --> 01:04:59,320
Speaker 2: support them. Now.

1112
01:05:01,760 --> 01:05:05,040
Speaker 1: She found work as an online English tutor, and she

1113
01:05:05,120 --> 01:05:08,040
Speaker 1: built a business writing and selling knitting patterns.

1114
01:05:09,880 --> 01:05:13,800
Speaker 2: My business is called knitting nicely but then nicely spelled

1115
01:05:13,800 --> 01:05:17,440
Speaker 2: with a kitten. I'm really proud that I have a

1116
01:05:17,480 --> 01:05:21,400
Speaker 2: business that I absolutely love and enjoy.

1117
01:05:21,440 --> 01:05:24,480
Speaker 1: After her divorce, she decided that she was done with

1118
01:05:24,600 --> 01:05:25,920
Speaker 1: romantic relationships.

1119
01:05:27,040 --> 01:05:31,360
Speaker 2: My whole view of the loving, caring relationship of marriage

1120
01:05:31,880 --> 01:05:36,240
Speaker 2: got trashed. Even when I would see couples in church

1121
01:05:36,440 --> 01:05:39,560
Speaker 2: or shopping holding hands, or I would see a post

1122
01:05:39,560 --> 01:05:43,360
Speaker 2: about somebody celebrating an anniversary, it would kind of turn

1123
01:05:43,440 --> 01:05:47,680
Speaker 2: my stomach. It just felt you to me because of

1124
01:05:47,760 --> 01:05:50,400
Speaker 2: what I went through, you know, having trust in someone

1125
01:05:50,440 --> 01:05:53,640
Speaker 2: and then having that trust completely destroyed. I didn't want

1126
01:05:53,640 --> 01:05:55,919
Speaker 2: to go through what I went through again. I didn't

1127
01:05:55,960 --> 01:05:58,720
Speaker 2: want to put my kids through that again. So for me,

1128
01:05:59,000 --> 01:06:01,120
Speaker 2: I was like, Okay, I am going to do this

1129
01:06:01,280 --> 01:06:04,120
Speaker 2: single mom thing and we're going to make it.

1130
01:06:05,200 --> 01:06:08,880
Speaker 1: But then, but then she saw a post on Facebook

1131
01:06:08,880 --> 01:06:12,120
Speaker 1: from her high school boyfriend Billy, the one who proposed

1132
01:06:12,120 --> 01:06:15,600
Speaker 1: to her thirty years ago. They'd since drifted apart and

1133
01:06:15,720 --> 01:06:18,960
Speaker 1: hadn't talked in nearly a decade, but in his post,

1134
01:06:19,440 --> 01:06:22,880
Speaker 1: she saw that his fiance had recently passed away, so

1135
01:06:22,920 --> 01:06:24,680
Speaker 1: she reached out to lend support.

1136
01:06:25,440 --> 01:06:28,840
Speaker 2: We were just like being there for each other, you know.

1137
01:06:29,160 --> 01:06:32,000
Speaker 2: I kind of wanted to uplift him and make him

1138
01:06:32,360 --> 01:06:34,480
Speaker 2: come out of the hole that I felt like he

1139
01:06:34,600 --> 01:06:38,080
Speaker 2: was about to go into, just to have somebody to

1140
01:06:38,080 --> 01:06:41,360
Speaker 2: talk to, to be able to laugh with. But then

1141
01:06:41,400 --> 01:06:43,960
Speaker 2: The conversations got longer, and then we ended up staying

1142
01:06:44,040 --> 01:06:48,600
Speaker 2: up all night talking over messenger, and my daughter was

1143
01:06:48,640 --> 01:06:51,360
Speaker 2: starting to say, who is this that you're talking to

1144
01:06:51,480 --> 01:06:54,720
Speaker 2: all this time? And I think she knew before I

1145
01:06:54,760 --> 01:06:56,720
Speaker 2: knew that I was starting to fall in love again.

1146
01:06:57,240 --> 01:07:00,600
Speaker 1: Danielle and Billy planned a FaceTime call. They would see

1147
01:07:00,640 --> 01:07:02,320
Speaker 1: each other for the first time.

1148
01:07:02,240 --> 01:07:05,600
Speaker 2: In years, and as soon as I saw his smiling face,

1149
01:07:06,360 --> 01:07:09,480
Speaker 2: I knew that was that was it. I was going

1150
01:07:09,600 --> 01:07:15,000
Speaker 2: to pursue that relationship for sure. The trust issue was

1151
01:07:15,040 --> 01:07:19,080
Speaker 2: not even an issue in the situation because I had

1152
01:07:19,160 --> 01:07:23,120
Speaker 2: known him from when I was a teenager. There wasn't

1153
01:07:23,160 --> 01:07:26,520
Speaker 2: that is he really who he says he is? Question?

1154
01:07:27,280 --> 01:07:29,400
Speaker 1: So they started dating again.

1155
01:07:29,680 --> 01:07:32,600
Speaker 2: Both of us were like, this is weird. How could

1156
01:07:32,600 --> 01:07:35,880
Speaker 2: this actually be happening again? Donnie and Billy two point zero.

1157
01:07:38,440 --> 01:07:41,240
Speaker 1: After a few months of dating again, they got married

1158
01:07:41,560 --> 01:07:44,360
Speaker 1: surrounded by their families at the Thanksgiving table.

1159
01:07:45,200 --> 01:07:48,680
Speaker 2: So we had Thanksgiving dinner, and then between Thanksgiving dinner

1160
01:07:48,720 --> 01:07:52,280
Speaker 2: and dessert is when the wedding happened. Yeah, it was

1161
01:07:52,320 --> 01:07:54,800
Speaker 2: really cool. I loved it. Wouldn't have it any other way.

1162
01:07:55,520 --> 01:07:58,320
Speaker 1: We end all of our weekly episodes with the same question,

1163
01:07:59,040 --> 01:08:01,360
Speaker 1: why did you want to tell you story?

1164
01:08:01,640 --> 01:08:06,800
Speaker 2: Knowing that you're not alone is so helpful. That's huge

1165
01:08:06,880 --> 01:08:10,440
Speaker 2: for people who've gone through stuff like that. That was

1166
01:08:10,480 --> 01:08:13,440
Speaker 2: one of the main things that helped me. Knowing that

1167
01:08:13,760 --> 01:08:17,200
Speaker 2: people have actually survived it and are happy again, that

1168
01:08:17,240 --> 01:08:22,120
Speaker 2: was really huge. My main reason for wanting to tell

1169
01:08:22,160 --> 01:08:26,360
Speaker 2: my story is to give people hope that even though

1170
01:08:26,360 --> 01:08:30,240
Speaker 2: you may feel like your world is upside down and

1171
01:08:30,479 --> 01:08:33,120
Speaker 2: it can never become upside up again, there is a

1172
01:08:33,200 --> 01:08:36,800
Speaker 2: light at the tunnel, maybe really tiny and small, might

1173
01:08:36,840 --> 01:08:39,800
Speaker 2: be a little tiny speck, but there is a light.

1174
01:08:47,880 --> 01:08:49,679
Speaker 1: If you would like to reach out to the Betrayal

1175
01:08:49,720 --> 01:08:52,599
Speaker 1: team or want to tell us your Betrayal story, email

1176
01:08:52,720 --> 01:08:56,200
Speaker 1: us at Betrayal pod at gmail dot com. That's Betrayal

1177
01:08:56,439 --> 01:09:00,719
Speaker 1: pod at gmail dot com. We're grateful for your support.

1178
01:09:01,320 --> 01:09:03,559
Speaker 1: One way to show support is by subscribing to our

1179
01:09:03,560 --> 01:09:06,280
Speaker 1: show on Apple Podcasts and don't forget to rate and

1180
01:09:06,280 --> 01:09:09,760
Speaker 1: review Betrayal. Five star reviews go a long way. A

1181
01:09:09,800 --> 01:09:13,360
Speaker 1: big thank you to all of our listeners. Betrayal is

1182
01:09:13,400 --> 01:09:16,360
Speaker 1: a production of Glass Podcasts, a division of Glass Entertainment

1183
01:09:16,360 --> 01:09:20,080
Speaker 1: Group and partnership with iHeart Podcasts. The show is executive

1184
01:09:20,080 --> 01:09:23,719
Speaker 1: produced by Nancy Glass and Jennifer Fason, Hosted and produced

1185
01:09:23,720 --> 01:09:27,559
Speaker 1: by me Andrea Gunning, Written and produced by Monique Leboard,

1186
01:09:28,160 --> 01:09:32,599
Speaker 1: also produced by Ben Fetterman. Associate producers are Kristin Melcuriy

1187
01:09:32,680 --> 01:09:36,080
Speaker 1: and Caitlin Golden. Our iHeart team is Ali Perry and

1188
01:09:36,160 --> 01:09:41,360
Speaker 1: Jessica Krinchech. Audio editing and mixing by Matt Delvechio, Additional

1189
01:09:41,439 --> 01:09:46,479
Speaker 1: editing support from Nico Aaruka. Betrayal's theme composed by Oliver Bains.

1190
01:09:47,120 --> 01:09:51,360
Speaker 1: Music library provided by myb Music and For more podcasts

1191
01:09:51,360 --> 01:09:55,360
Speaker 1: from iHeart, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever

1192
01:09:55,439 --> 01:09:56,920
Speaker 1: you get your podcasts,