1 00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:02,920 Speaker 1: Welcome to How the Money. I'm Joel and I'm Matt's 2 00:00:03,000 --> 00:00:05,680 Speaker 1: and today we're talking about how you can retire sooner 3 00:00:05,760 --> 00:00:28,560 Speaker 1: and increase your happiness now with West Moss. So our 4 00:00:28,560 --> 00:00:32,120 Speaker 1: guest today is Everywhere. West Moss is the host of 5 00:00:32,320 --> 00:00:35,960 Speaker 1: Money Matters, the country's longest running investment radio show. He 6 00:00:36,240 --> 00:00:38,680 Speaker 1: is also the host of his own podcast, Retire Sooner. 7 00:00:38,720 --> 00:00:41,400 Speaker 1: He's the author of multiple books, including the recently released 8 00:00:41,440 --> 00:00:44,400 Speaker 1: book What the Happiest Retirees Know, which you're gonna be 9 00:00:44,400 --> 00:00:47,280 Speaker 1: talking about today. Oh and he's also the chief investment 10 00:00:47,360 --> 00:00:50,920 Speaker 1: strategist at Capital Investment Advisors, which is a fee only 11 00:00:50,960 --> 00:00:54,120 Speaker 1: investment firm with over two point eight billion dollars in 12 00:00:54,200 --> 00:00:57,160 Speaker 1: assets under management. So all that being said, we're excited 13 00:00:57,200 --> 00:00:59,680 Speaker 1: to talk a lot about happiness today in general. So 14 00:01:00,120 --> 00:01:02,400 Speaker 1: thank you for joining us today on the show. Gentlemen, 15 00:01:02,480 --> 00:01:05,080 Speaker 1: it's my honor to be here. West. We're so glad 16 00:01:05,080 --> 00:01:06,600 Speaker 1: to have you. West and I go way back. We've 17 00:01:06,600 --> 00:01:09,800 Speaker 1: known each other for a long time, so, especially since 18 00:01:09,840 --> 00:01:11,640 Speaker 1: this new book came out and there's so much good 19 00:01:11,640 --> 00:01:13,800 Speaker 1: info here, we're excited to chat with you today, man, 20 00:01:14,120 --> 00:01:16,199 Speaker 1: But we we want to ask you first the question 21 00:01:16,200 --> 00:01:17,959 Speaker 1: we ask every single guest that comes on the show. 22 00:01:18,280 --> 00:01:20,800 Speaker 1: Matt and I. Of course, as you know and our 23 00:01:20,840 --> 00:01:24,640 Speaker 1: audience knows, love craft beer and we're willing to spend 24 00:01:25,120 --> 00:01:27,000 Speaker 1: some would say too much money on it in the 25 00:01:27,080 --> 00:01:30,160 Speaker 1: here and now, while we're attempting to save thoughtfully and 26 00:01:30,200 --> 00:01:32,960 Speaker 1: invest for our future. So we want to know from you, 27 00:01:33,000 --> 00:01:37,480 Speaker 1: what's your splurge, what's that craft beer equivalent in your life? Yeah, 28 00:01:37,520 --> 00:01:40,080 Speaker 1: I've been, I've I've been thinking about this one because 29 00:01:40,120 --> 00:01:42,440 Speaker 1: I I the way I look at spending is that 30 00:01:42,520 --> 00:01:46,120 Speaker 1: as long as you're within what i'd say the four 31 00:01:46,200 --> 00:01:48,640 Speaker 1: percent plus rule parameters, and as long as you're saving 32 00:01:48,640 --> 00:01:51,400 Speaker 1: we need to save, then I love to be very 33 00:01:51,480 --> 00:01:54,400 Speaker 1: unjudgy when it comes to what people are spending money on. 34 00:01:54,720 --> 00:01:57,400 Speaker 1: So the I love I love that you guys asked 35 00:01:57,400 --> 00:02:00,040 Speaker 1: this question, and I think of there's there's plenty of 36 00:02:00,040 --> 00:02:02,800 Speaker 1: places that that I look at that I probably spend 37 00:02:02,880 --> 00:02:06,720 Speaker 1: too much money, uh in a good a good example. 38 00:02:06,760 --> 00:02:09,160 Speaker 1: And I've I was thinking back, like where have I 39 00:02:09,200 --> 00:02:11,280 Speaker 1: felt some guilt? And I have a little bit of that, 40 00:02:11,800 --> 00:02:13,560 Speaker 1: a little bit of a gut wrench like, oh it 41 00:02:13,639 --> 00:02:15,720 Speaker 1: feels like too much, but I'm gonna do it. Anyway, 42 00:02:16,480 --> 00:02:21,160 Speaker 1: and it's it actually has to do with music stuff. Uh. 43 00:02:21,200 --> 00:02:23,200 Speaker 1: The last time I saw you guys in person was 44 00:02:23,240 --> 00:02:25,680 Speaker 1: a place I think it was some sort of dueling 45 00:02:25,720 --> 00:02:31,600 Speaker 1: piano bar. The dueling piano bar concept is amazing because 46 00:02:31,639 --> 00:02:34,840 Speaker 1: it's almost like a Carrie It's almost like live karaoke. 47 00:02:35,360 --> 00:02:38,720 Speaker 1: It is two guys playing piano. There's actually a maybe 48 00:02:38,760 --> 00:02:40,600 Speaker 1: a drummer once in a while, and they're playing all 49 00:02:40,639 --> 00:02:42,920 Speaker 1: the songs that you want to hear and you're kind 50 00:02:42,919 --> 00:02:45,480 Speaker 1: of singing along to that. That is actually one of 51 00:02:45,520 --> 00:02:47,360 Speaker 1: the most fun things I do in my life, which 52 00:02:47,400 --> 00:02:50,080 Speaker 1: is that in really in in I r L in 53 00:02:50,120 --> 00:02:53,359 Speaker 1: real life, which is music stuff. I've got a kid, 54 00:02:53,440 --> 00:02:56,840 Speaker 1: one kid that's a really serious guitar player, and I've 55 00:02:56,840 --> 00:02:59,600 Speaker 1: been I've played played music for probably thirty years of 56 00:02:59,639 --> 00:03:02,160 Speaker 1: my life for more than that, even maybe thirty five years, 57 00:03:02,760 --> 00:03:05,280 Speaker 1: and grew up in a family my brother's guitar players, 58 00:03:05,280 --> 00:03:07,359 Speaker 1: my dad's a guitar player, and I've always been the 59 00:03:07,360 --> 00:03:09,200 Speaker 1: piano player in the family, which is by the way, 60 00:03:09,320 --> 00:03:12,079 Speaker 1: less cool instrument than guitar until you get to a 61 00:03:12,160 --> 00:03:15,560 Speaker 1: dually piano bar and they are rocking out. That's true. 62 00:03:15,919 --> 00:03:18,600 Speaker 1: That's true. So Anyways, I've always played piano, so I 63 00:03:18,600 --> 00:03:20,160 Speaker 1: bought I have a I have an old one of 64 00:03:20,200 --> 00:03:23,440 Speaker 1: these old steinways. That's it was a gut wrenching purchase 65 00:03:23,480 --> 00:03:27,440 Speaker 1: because it's super expensive. And then I bought a key 66 00:03:27,440 --> 00:03:31,600 Speaker 1: a Roland Kiola piano that looks really cool and sleek, 67 00:03:32,280 --> 00:03:34,480 Speaker 1: and that was super expensive too. It was like double 68 00:03:34,520 --> 00:03:37,600 Speaker 1: Like you can get a great keyboard for like two grand. 69 00:03:38,080 --> 00:03:40,760 Speaker 1: I think the Roland Keela was like five grand. So 70 00:03:40,800 --> 00:03:44,040 Speaker 1: it was it was it felt really difficult to do. 71 00:03:44,600 --> 00:03:46,920 Speaker 1: And then guitars. I bought a guitar the other day. 72 00:03:46,920 --> 00:03:50,040 Speaker 1: It was like four bucks. So that's a super indulgent thing, 73 00:03:51,120 --> 00:03:52,880 Speaker 1: but I do, I do love it. I love that 74 00:03:52,920 --> 00:03:54,920 Speaker 1: you know your genre though, and that's so important, right, 75 00:03:54,960 --> 00:03:56,200 Speaker 1: That's what we talked about on the show, like you 76 00:03:56,240 --> 00:04:00,160 Speaker 1: can't you can't spend spend big in every single category. 77 00:04:00,200 --> 00:04:01,760 Speaker 1: But as long as you know, hey, this is the 78 00:04:01,800 --> 00:04:03,480 Speaker 1: one or I'm going to turn up the heat and 79 00:04:03,520 --> 00:04:06,960 Speaker 1: I'm gonna be willing to let a few more dollars fly. Um, 80 00:04:07,040 --> 00:04:08,880 Speaker 1: we know that it's craft beer, you know that it's music, 81 00:04:09,000 --> 00:04:11,800 Speaker 1: and that's awesome. That's right. Yeah, So West before we 82 00:04:11,880 --> 00:04:13,680 Speaker 1: kind of you know, dive into more of the money 83 00:04:13,680 --> 00:04:16,600 Speaker 1: talk here, real quick, you were on The Apprentice back 84 00:04:16,600 --> 00:04:18,960 Speaker 1: in the day, right, was it back in the season two? Yeah, 85 00:04:19,040 --> 00:04:20,880 Speaker 1: it feels like yesterday, but it was. I guess it's 86 00:04:21,279 --> 00:04:24,480 Speaker 1: eighteen years ago. What was what was that entire experience? Like, 87 00:04:24,600 --> 00:04:27,440 Speaker 1: real quick? So it's just I would say it's scary 88 00:04:27,520 --> 00:04:30,000 Speaker 1: because you knew even though you can't quite prepare that. 89 00:04:30,200 --> 00:04:34,560 Speaker 1: And this is back when TV was popular and that 90 00:04:34,600 --> 00:04:37,400 Speaker 1: show was very popular, right, So it was I think 91 00:04:37,400 --> 00:04:40,960 Speaker 1: it was the first season average eighteen million viewers in 92 00:04:41,040 --> 00:04:46,000 Speaker 1: episode and being on there was it was. I would 93 00:04:46,000 --> 00:04:47,919 Speaker 1: say the whole time it was kind of nerve racking 94 00:04:47,960 --> 00:04:51,160 Speaker 1: because you're filmed the whole time, and you're doing business 95 00:04:51,200 --> 00:04:53,800 Speaker 1: the whole time, and you're competing the whole time, and 96 00:04:53,839 --> 00:04:56,000 Speaker 1: you want to have it's just hard to get that 97 00:04:56,080 --> 00:04:58,680 Speaker 1: right balance of aggressive enough to try to do well 98 00:04:59,360 --> 00:05:02,560 Speaker 1: but not look like a crazy person. And I just 99 00:05:02,600 --> 00:05:04,800 Speaker 1: remember thinking the whole time it's like, I just don't 100 00:05:04,800 --> 00:05:08,040 Speaker 1: need to stay balanced, stay out of trouble, and it 101 00:05:08,080 --> 00:05:10,480 Speaker 1: was it was wild. Yeah, you don't wanna you don't 102 00:05:10,480 --> 00:05:12,560 Speaker 1: want to be the Amorosa. I guess though she's she's 103 00:05:12,600 --> 00:05:15,360 Speaker 1: done well for herself. So, uh, but let let's get 104 00:05:15,400 --> 00:05:17,560 Speaker 1: into some of the content that you cover in in 105 00:05:17,640 --> 00:05:21,000 Speaker 1: the book West You you know what I love you 106 00:05:21,000 --> 00:05:23,720 Speaker 1: have kind of a preoccupation with making sure that folks 107 00:05:23,760 --> 00:05:26,200 Speaker 1: who retire are happy. And I don't think it's a 108 00:05:26,240 --> 00:05:28,320 Speaker 1: negative thing, Like I think that's a that's a positive thing. 109 00:05:28,839 --> 00:05:30,760 Speaker 1: And you actually tell a story at the beginning of 110 00:05:30,760 --> 00:05:34,160 Speaker 1: your book about growing up around the Amish, and so 111 00:05:34,440 --> 00:05:37,880 Speaker 1: it seems like maybe that informed some of your happiness obsession. 112 00:05:37,920 --> 00:05:41,240 Speaker 1: Is that true? This question around money, what's the right 113 00:05:41,279 --> 00:05:44,240 Speaker 1: amount of money versus happiness and what's that relationship? I 114 00:05:44,240 --> 00:05:47,440 Speaker 1: think that's another thing I tried to solve, And in 115 00:05:47,480 --> 00:05:51,160 Speaker 1: writing this book, I went back to thinking more about 116 00:05:51,360 --> 00:05:55,479 Speaker 1: maybe I was just confused as a kid, and it 117 00:05:55,520 --> 00:05:57,479 Speaker 1: wasn't until this book that I tried to uncover that, 118 00:05:57,520 --> 00:05:59,760 Speaker 1: which is I grew up in a weird place where 119 00:06:01,080 --> 00:06:05,640 Speaker 1: I was two miles away from a steel mill in Coatesville, Pennsylvania. 120 00:06:05,720 --> 00:06:08,080 Speaker 1: So you had a lot of blue collar people that 121 00:06:08,200 --> 00:06:11,359 Speaker 1: literally worked at Luke what was at the time Lucan's 122 00:06:11,360 --> 00:06:17,520 Speaker 1: Steel And then my dad was is or just recently 123 00:06:17,520 --> 00:06:21,239 Speaker 1: retired large animal veterinarian and small animal when he retired 124 00:06:21,600 --> 00:06:25,440 Speaker 1: and his main client were Amish dairy farmers, and they 125 00:06:25,480 --> 00:06:28,679 Speaker 1: were Lancaster County was or Leancester, Pa was fifteen minutes 126 00:06:28,680 --> 00:06:33,000 Speaker 1: from where my dad still lives. But at the same time, 127 00:06:33,839 --> 00:06:37,720 Speaker 1: it's in this gorgeous place in southeastern Pennsylvania where the 128 00:06:38,200 --> 00:06:41,120 Speaker 1: ultra wealthy calm as well because the it's horse country. 129 00:06:42,160 --> 00:06:47,000 Speaker 1: So you have these fifty million dollar horse farms that 130 00:06:47,200 --> 00:06:50,120 Speaker 1: are you know, they might be a thousand acres and 131 00:06:50,160 --> 00:06:53,520 Speaker 1: it's all right there near where the Amish are and 132 00:06:53,560 --> 00:06:55,359 Speaker 1: near where Luke and Steel is. So I think I 133 00:06:55,400 --> 00:06:58,520 Speaker 1: grew looking back on it and writing this book. Maybe 134 00:06:58,520 --> 00:07:02,240 Speaker 1: I was just I had this confused usuon around. Well, 135 00:07:02,400 --> 00:07:05,520 Speaker 1: these people over here are billionaires and they have fifty 136 00:07:05,600 --> 00:07:09,320 Speaker 1: horses and they seem, you know, pretty happy. And then 137 00:07:09,480 --> 00:07:11,600 Speaker 1: I go on farm calls with my dad to Eli 138 00:07:11,640 --> 00:07:15,920 Speaker 1: Stoltus's place, and they literally choose to live as though 139 00:07:15,960 --> 00:07:18,960 Speaker 1: they have almost no money because the Amish. The Amish 140 00:07:19,040 --> 00:07:22,119 Speaker 1: have like they literally still have no electricity, no no TV, 141 00:07:22,840 --> 00:07:25,280 Speaker 1: no radio like they used to come my dad, my 142 00:07:25,360 --> 00:07:28,560 Speaker 1: dad of this red pickup truck. Um. I remember I 143 00:07:28,600 --> 00:07:30,920 Speaker 1: was five or six years old at the time, and 144 00:07:30,960 --> 00:07:33,760 Speaker 1: the Amish kids that I became buddies with because I 145 00:07:33,800 --> 00:07:35,760 Speaker 1: used to go I did these farm calls for years. 146 00:07:36,120 --> 00:07:37,520 Speaker 1: They were like, oh, can we come here? We could 147 00:07:37,520 --> 00:07:39,440 Speaker 1: go to your dad's truck and listen to the radio, 148 00:07:41,120 --> 00:07:42,640 Speaker 1: and it was like a highlight of their day. And 149 00:07:42,640 --> 00:07:44,440 Speaker 1: I'm like, guys, you literally like this is the most 150 00:07:44,480 --> 00:07:48,840 Speaker 1: boring thing in the world, Like wait tc TV, like 151 00:07:48,960 --> 00:07:52,560 Speaker 1: wait till you guys. So I think I just grew 152 00:07:52,640 --> 00:07:54,920 Speaker 1: up thinking like, these people have choose to live really 153 00:07:55,000 --> 00:07:58,080 Speaker 1: without a lot of money, juxtaposition with the people that 154 00:07:58,160 --> 00:08:00,400 Speaker 1: all the money in the world, and the Amish people 155 00:08:00,600 --> 00:08:03,640 Speaker 1: seem to be as happy or maybe even happier than 156 00:08:03,680 --> 00:08:07,680 Speaker 1: anyone else. I knew that. I think that that rattled 157 00:08:07,720 --> 00:08:09,680 Speaker 1: around my brain forever. It's like, well, what what's the 158 00:08:09,760 --> 00:08:12,600 Speaker 1: right answer? Does it take his money helped with happiness 159 00:08:12,680 --> 00:08:14,600 Speaker 1: or do you not even need it? And that's why 160 00:08:14,680 --> 00:08:16,480 Speaker 1: I think I ended up studying it for now the 161 00:08:16,520 --> 00:08:20,160 Speaker 1: better part of my life. Nice. Yeah, that's a incredibly 162 00:08:20,200 --> 00:08:22,559 Speaker 1: severe juxtaposition, like you said, and it sounds like maybe 163 00:08:22,640 --> 00:08:25,400 Speaker 1: even that some of the lifestyle rubbed off a little bit, 164 00:08:25,440 --> 00:08:27,600 Speaker 1: like you did mention your dad and in the book too, 165 00:08:27,600 --> 00:08:30,440 Speaker 1: you mentioned that he's essentially maybe the first happy retiree 166 00:08:30,480 --> 00:08:33,080 Speaker 1: that you mentioned, and so, like, what were a couple 167 00:08:33,080 --> 00:08:35,000 Speaker 1: of the specific things that you's like he was doing 168 00:08:35,040 --> 00:08:38,400 Speaker 1: that allowed him to become an an h rob happiness 169 00:08:38,440 --> 00:08:41,560 Speaker 1: retiree on the block like you mentioned. So it's he's 170 00:08:41,600 --> 00:08:45,160 Speaker 1: he's an interesting guy. Uh. He is really pretty pretty 171 00:08:45,200 --> 00:08:52,000 Speaker 1: introverted guy and relatively quiet. I'd still say today to 172 00:08:52,080 --> 00:08:55,640 Speaker 1: this day, he's kind of a he's kind of a 173 00:08:55,640 --> 00:08:58,000 Speaker 1: a hippie. I don't know if that's the right. Yeah, 174 00:08:58,040 --> 00:09:00,239 Speaker 1: So he's kind of he's a he's a grown up hippie. 175 00:09:00,280 --> 00:09:04,560 Speaker 1: He's about seventy today, and he doesn't need to be 176 00:09:04,600 --> 00:09:07,360 Speaker 1: around a ton of people. But he's got his music 177 00:09:07,400 --> 00:09:09,959 Speaker 1: buddies and they come and play. They they come over 178 00:09:10,000 --> 00:09:11,600 Speaker 1: to his barn. They have a studio on the top 179 00:09:11,640 --> 00:09:13,720 Speaker 1: of the barn. They play music, you know, a couple 180 00:09:13,720 --> 00:09:16,120 Speaker 1: of times a month. And he has twice a year 181 00:09:16,160 --> 00:09:20,800 Speaker 1: as a softball party in his field and the rest 182 00:09:20,800 --> 00:09:23,400 Speaker 1: of the time he has just this the longest list 183 00:09:23,520 --> 00:09:29,160 Speaker 1: till to this day of these Again, I think curiosity 184 00:09:29,280 --> 00:09:33,000 Speaker 1: is almost the magical lickxer for having a happy retirement 185 00:09:33,400 --> 00:09:35,920 Speaker 1: and in in core pursuits of these hobbies that people 186 00:09:36,040 --> 00:09:39,880 Speaker 1: have on steroids. Happy retirees have a lot of them. 187 00:09:39,920 --> 00:09:46,160 Speaker 1: And he has almost an unending list of really involved 188 00:09:46,200 --> 00:09:49,240 Speaker 1: core pursuits and they're all over the map, but they 189 00:09:49,440 --> 00:09:53,240 Speaker 1: keep him so occupied that he's always kind of hopping 190 00:09:53,320 --> 00:09:57,160 Speaker 1: from one core pursuit that's so fun to another to another, 191 00:09:57,280 --> 00:09:59,600 Speaker 1: and he just keeps keeps this list running, and he 192 00:09:59,640 --> 00:10:01,319 Speaker 1: keeps try to get better and better at all these 193 00:10:01,320 --> 00:10:04,680 Speaker 1: different things, and it's kind of kind of fascinating, Like 194 00:10:04,720 --> 00:10:06,520 Speaker 1: I can't keep up with them when it comes to that. 195 00:10:06,640 --> 00:10:09,520 Speaker 1: But maybe one day, if I'm not doing the podcast 196 00:10:09,559 --> 00:10:11,720 Speaker 1: and I'm not don't have a financial firm, maybe one 197 00:10:11,760 --> 00:10:16,800 Speaker 1: day I'll have fifteen different corporate corporate suits like my dad. Yeah, 198 00:10:16,800 --> 00:10:18,800 Speaker 1: and we want to talk about more corporate suits just 199 00:10:18,920 --> 00:10:20,880 Speaker 1: a little bit later too, because that is such a 200 00:10:20,960 --> 00:10:24,120 Speaker 1: important factor in what makes someone an happy retiree versus 201 00:10:24,160 --> 00:10:26,760 Speaker 1: an unhappy one. Based on the research that you've done, 202 00:10:27,240 --> 00:10:29,360 Speaker 1: I want to just like quickly ask though, Like the 203 00:10:29,360 --> 00:10:32,520 Speaker 1: title of your book and includes the word retirees, and 204 00:10:32,559 --> 00:10:35,480 Speaker 1: so a lot of our listeners are younger. They're millennial 205 00:10:35,480 --> 00:10:39,360 Speaker 1: aged folks are in their twenties and thirties, So yeah, 206 00:10:39,400 --> 00:10:40,920 Speaker 1: what would you say to them if they're like, this 207 00:10:40,960 --> 00:10:43,600 Speaker 1: conversation is not gonna be relevant, Like we're only talking 208 00:10:43,600 --> 00:10:46,720 Speaker 1: about people that are nearing retirement age. But I think 209 00:10:46,720 --> 00:10:48,920 Speaker 1: there's a whole lot more that we're gonna uncover in 210 00:10:48,960 --> 00:10:52,040 Speaker 1: this conversation too. Don't you think the opposite of that 211 00:10:52,120 --> 00:10:56,040 Speaker 1: is true? Right? So, so this these are lifestyle habits 212 00:10:56,040 --> 00:11:01,120 Speaker 1: that you that we as we all need to embodies 213 00:11:01,480 --> 00:11:04,959 Speaker 1: like today, like in our twenties and our thirties. And 214 00:11:05,280 --> 00:11:08,640 Speaker 1: it's this, it's it's helping us and studying the happy 215 00:11:08,679 --> 00:11:11,760 Speaker 1: retirees and how they live. It studies this really important 216 00:11:11,800 --> 00:11:14,840 Speaker 1: balance between money habits and lifestyle and financial habits and 217 00:11:14,880 --> 00:11:17,520 Speaker 1: what we can spend our money on and and the 218 00:11:18,160 --> 00:11:20,640 Speaker 1: non financial side. So, first of all, the financial side 219 00:11:20,640 --> 00:11:22,760 Speaker 1: of this is that I want to emulate. We all 220 00:11:22,760 --> 00:11:25,079 Speaker 1: want to emulate what the happiest retires do money wise. 221 00:11:25,280 --> 00:11:28,679 Speaker 1: If we can, we know what those checkpoints are. We 222 00:11:28,720 --> 00:11:31,000 Speaker 1: know what those checkpoints are to get to financial freedom. 223 00:11:31,160 --> 00:11:32,920 Speaker 1: That's of course a huge part of this and a 224 00:11:33,040 --> 00:11:36,839 Speaker 1: fundamental foundational part of the book. And in the earlier 225 00:11:36,920 --> 00:11:39,800 Speaker 1: you do and I didn't really I actually didn't publish 226 00:11:39,840 --> 00:11:44,040 Speaker 1: this in this book, but one of my research studies 227 00:11:44,520 --> 00:11:50,120 Speaker 1: showed the average net worth relative to when someone started 228 00:11:50,320 --> 00:11:54,280 Speaker 1: saving money. And it's a fascinating and I probably need 229 00:11:54,320 --> 00:11:56,760 Speaker 1: to write about this, but and and and it's exactly 230 00:11:56,800 --> 00:11:58,760 Speaker 1: what you expect. But it's a very clear picture of 231 00:11:58,760 --> 00:12:01,320 Speaker 1: those who started saving in the twenties are the ones 232 00:12:01,360 --> 00:12:03,200 Speaker 1: that were more likely to get to three million dollars 233 00:12:03,200 --> 00:12:05,640 Speaker 1: and more. And the probability of gett into three million 234 00:12:05,640 --> 00:12:07,240 Speaker 1: dollars and more continue to go down the later we 235 00:12:07,240 --> 00:12:11,160 Speaker 1: started saving. However, it's never too late. And I tell 236 00:12:11,200 --> 00:12:12,719 Speaker 1: a couple of stories in the book about how it's 237 00:12:12,720 --> 00:12:15,720 Speaker 1: never too late to be a happy retiree. So to me, 238 00:12:16,679 --> 00:12:18,760 Speaker 1: we also just like you don't want to start You 239 00:12:18,760 --> 00:12:21,040 Speaker 1: don't want to wait till your sixty to start saving money. 240 00:12:21,640 --> 00:12:23,360 Speaker 1: You also don't want to wait to do all these 241 00:12:23,400 --> 00:12:26,439 Speaker 1: other lifestyle habits until you are You don't want to 242 00:12:26,440 --> 00:12:27,640 Speaker 1: wait till your sixty. You want to do the like 243 00:12:27,679 --> 00:12:30,560 Speaker 1: your twenty thirty and forty and integrate them into your life. 244 00:12:30,559 --> 00:12:34,199 Speaker 1: Because I've I will say, even though I've worked with many, 245 00:12:34,200 --> 00:12:36,800 Speaker 1: many happy retirees over the years, I've also seen some 246 00:12:36,920 --> 00:12:41,080 Speaker 1: unhappy retirees. And where do they come from? A lot 247 00:12:41,120 --> 00:12:44,480 Speaker 1: of times that group is the all work and no 248 00:12:44,679 --> 00:12:48,600 Speaker 1: play group, and they figure out work and they figure 249 00:12:48,600 --> 00:12:53,280 Speaker 1: out money and they nail that. But they think they 250 00:12:53,679 --> 00:12:57,840 Speaker 1: they operate under the assumption that today I'm gonna work work, work, work, work, 251 00:12:57,840 --> 00:12:59,240 Speaker 1: and it's the only thing I can do. And then 252 00:12:59,320 --> 00:13:02,839 Speaker 1: tomorrow this switch is gonna get flipped and all of 253 00:13:02,880 --> 00:13:04,520 Speaker 1: a sudden, I'm gonna just give you all the fun 254 00:13:04,600 --> 00:13:07,840 Speaker 1: stuff and it And it's actually impossible to do that. 255 00:13:08,000 --> 00:13:10,920 Speaker 1: You cannot do that. There is too big of a 256 00:13:10,920 --> 00:13:15,800 Speaker 1: transition to get to a fulfilling, full life outside of 257 00:13:15,840 --> 00:13:17,840 Speaker 1: work and outside of the money side of the equation. 258 00:13:18,320 --> 00:13:20,480 Speaker 1: So we have to do it now, and we have 259 00:13:20,600 --> 00:13:24,040 Speaker 1: to always integrate that balance. And and you know we've 260 00:13:24,080 --> 00:13:26,640 Speaker 1: talked about this, Joel, I know that you you're a 261 00:13:26,720 --> 00:13:31,560 Speaker 1: huge believer in having a wonderful balance and that, in 262 00:13:31,600 --> 00:13:35,760 Speaker 1: my opinion, that is the ultimate step to becoming a 263 00:13:35,760 --> 00:13:39,000 Speaker 1: happy retiree is to find the balance early and not 264 00:13:39,120 --> 00:13:41,719 Speaker 1: wait until your like sixty to do it. Got to 265 00:13:41,760 --> 00:13:44,280 Speaker 1: do in your twenties, thirties and forties to be able 266 00:13:44,320 --> 00:13:46,880 Speaker 1: to get it right by the time you stop working. Yeah, 267 00:13:46,920 --> 00:13:48,400 Speaker 1: I love what you said there about not being able 268 00:13:48,440 --> 00:13:50,600 Speaker 1: to flip a switch, because if you've lived an entire 269 00:13:50,679 --> 00:13:53,640 Speaker 1: way your entire life, a specific way your entire life, 270 00:13:53,640 --> 00:13:55,560 Speaker 1: it is gonna be really difficult just to be like, Okay, 271 00:13:55,600 --> 00:13:57,160 Speaker 1: all of a sudden, now I'm going to have a life, 272 00:13:57,280 --> 00:13:59,679 Speaker 1: oftentimes outside of my work, because that's where a lot 273 00:13:59,720 --> 00:14:02,200 Speaker 1: of folks throw themselves into. Yeah, pork has been the 274 00:14:02,280 --> 00:14:04,559 Speaker 1: end all be all. There's gonna be a void when 275 00:14:04,559 --> 00:14:07,080 Speaker 1: you finally reach the time where you're trying to quit. Yeah, 276 00:14:07,120 --> 00:14:09,800 Speaker 1: so so wes so like having enough money like that? 277 00:14:10,080 --> 00:14:12,000 Speaker 1: Like you said, it's foundational, but it's a you know, 278 00:14:12,080 --> 00:14:15,000 Speaker 1: it's just it's only a portion of achieving happiness. Uh. 279 00:14:15,000 --> 00:14:16,920 Speaker 1: And you actually you make this argument in your book 280 00:14:16,960 --> 00:14:20,040 Speaker 1: with the Plato effect, and so can you explain how 281 00:14:20,080 --> 00:14:23,840 Speaker 1: that Plato effect works? So if I set it economic, 282 00:14:23,920 --> 00:14:26,440 Speaker 1: so I think of this term of diminishing marginal returns 283 00:14:26,880 --> 00:14:31,440 Speaker 1: in this particular relationship, if we think about does more 284 00:14:31,480 --> 00:14:34,160 Speaker 1: money by more happiness? And I guess the simple answer 285 00:14:34,720 --> 00:14:38,160 Speaker 1: that I give on this question is yes, it does 286 00:14:38,320 --> 00:14:41,560 Speaker 1: only but but only up to a certain point, meaning 287 00:14:41,600 --> 00:14:44,880 Speaker 1: that in the early stages of either saving money, earning money, 288 00:14:46,040 --> 00:14:50,360 Speaker 1: and even spending money to some extent, the the happiness 289 00:14:50,400 --> 00:14:54,440 Speaker 1: curve jumps really quickly or and dramatically in the early 290 00:14:54,520 --> 00:14:57,240 Speaker 1: stages of saving money, and then we get to a 291 00:14:57,240 --> 00:14:59,640 Speaker 1: certain point. Let's call it from a savings perspective, as 292 00:14:59,640 --> 00:15:05,840 Speaker 1: an exam ample, new incremental dollars bias less new incremental happiness, 293 00:15:05,880 --> 00:15:10,080 Speaker 1: meaning that we have demin basically diminishing marginal happiness per 294 00:15:10,120 --> 00:15:12,320 Speaker 1: new dollar. And maybe the easy way to say that 295 00:15:12,440 --> 00:15:15,760 Speaker 1: is it's a plateau effect, so that we we and 296 00:15:15,840 --> 00:15:19,200 Speaker 1: we think of it from going from earning maybe we'll 297 00:15:19,240 --> 00:15:21,720 Speaker 1: look at this way, earning twenty thousand dollars a year 298 00:15:21,800 --> 00:15:27,120 Speaker 1: thirty thousand dollars a year to sixty is a massive 299 00:15:27,200 --> 00:15:28,720 Speaker 1: jump in the way you can live your life and 300 00:15:28,760 --> 00:15:32,120 Speaker 1: make it some more cushion. Right, But going from another 301 00:15:32,120 --> 00:15:34,200 Speaker 1: extreme example, going from a million a year to two 302 00:15:34,200 --> 00:15:36,600 Speaker 1: million not gonna change your life. It's like going from 303 00:15:36,640 --> 00:15:40,360 Speaker 1: an outhouse to indoor plumbing. Uh, that's that's a big jump. 304 00:15:40,360 --> 00:15:43,640 Speaker 1: But then that indoor plumbing to like the gold plated toilet, 305 00:15:43,720 --> 00:15:45,920 Speaker 1: Like it's doesn't really move the needle that much cold 306 00:15:45,920 --> 00:15:49,000 Speaker 1: in the winter, right, It's like, I don't know, it's allay, yeah, 307 00:15:49,000 --> 00:15:51,080 Speaker 1: And it's maybe like the iPhone going from the flip 308 00:15:51,080 --> 00:15:54,080 Speaker 1: phone to the iPhone ten. It is a massive jump 309 00:15:54,120 --> 00:15:57,240 Speaker 1: in like utility, and I'm so happy going from iPhone 310 00:15:57,280 --> 00:16:01,320 Speaker 1: ten to iPhone thirteen, Like what's the difference? Yeah, Well, hey, West, 311 00:16:01,360 --> 00:16:03,520 Speaker 1: We've got some more questions we want to get to 312 00:16:04,040 --> 00:16:06,520 Speaker 1: and include you want to talk about personal habits and 313 00:16:06,560 --> 00:16:08,440 Speaker 1: those core pursuits and kind of dig a little bit 314 00:16:08,440 --> 00:16:10,680 Speaker 1: deeper with some questions around that, and we'll get to 315 00:16:10,720 --> 00:16:22,840 Speaker 1: those questions right after this break. All right, we're talking 316 00:16:22,880 --> 00:16:26,320 Speaker 1: with West Moss about retiring sooner and increasing your happiness 317 00:16:26,720 --> 00:16:28,320 Speaker 1: the different ways that we can start doing that. Now, 318 00:16:28,360 --> 00:16:30,400 Speaker 1: it's so important to to kind of find that balance, 319 00:16:30,440 --> 00:16:32,560 Speaker 1: like we talked about before the break, and so Wes, 320 00:16:32,640 --> 00:16:35,400 Speaker 1: let's let's talk about some of the top habits that 321 00:16:35,520 --> 00:16:38,400 Speaker 1: the happiest retirees practice. Again, like we said earlier, you know, 322 00:16:38,480 --> 00:16:42,240 Speaker 1: making smart money moves is hugely important. Uh, It's what 323 00:16:42,240 --> 00:16:43,920 Speaker 1: we talked about here on the show every single week. 324 00:16:44,160 --> 00:16:46,600 Speaker 1: You know, you mentioned having enough saved and retirement, having 325 00:16:46,600 --> 00:16:49,520 Speaker 1: diversified streams of income, but you also spend a lot 326 00:16:49,560 --> 00:16:51,680 Speaker 1: of time in your buck covering just the many other 327 00:16:51,760 --> 00:16:54,480 Speaker 1: things that lead to happiness, and you know a lot 328 00:16:54,520 --> 00:16:56,840 Speaker 1: of them pertain to things that we can pursue in 329 00:16:56,880 --> 00:16:59,120 Speaker 1: the things that we can do as individuals, and so 330 00:16:59,240 --> 00:17:01,880 Speaker 1: let's talk about of those different habits that we can pursue. 331 00:17:02,200 --> 00:17:03,760 Speaker 1: Can you tell us a little bit more about core 332 00:17:03,800 --> 00:17:07,240 Speaker 1: pursuits and what exactly is a core pursuit and you know, 333 00:17:07,280 --> 00:17:09,320 Speaker 1: specifically to you're gonna tell us about how many of 334 00:17:09,359 --> 00:17:12,320 Speaker 1: those we should have, right exactly. So again, I'd like 335 00:17:12,400 --> 00:17:15,760 Speaker 1: that this book is data driven. So I believe in 336 00:17:16,600 --> 00:17:20,040 Speaker 1: doing research around a topic and then getting the data 337 00:17:20,080 --> 00:17:23,879 Speaker 1: back and then making conclusions from that, as opposed to 338 00:17:24,600 --> 00:17:26,720 Speaker 1: originally thinking like, oh, I'm gonna write about what I 339 00:17:26,760 --> 00:17:29,160 Speaker 1: think happy retirees are going to do or what they 340 00:17:29,160 --> 00:17:35,119 Speaker 1: do and I and it just I instead decided to 341 00:17:35,160 --> 00:17:38,800 Speaker 1: start first with research and study and and that's what 342 00:17:39,440 --> 00:17:41,280 Speaker 1: once I started to be able to get into that 343 00:17:41,359 --> 00:17:46,240 Speaker 1: habit of studying and researching, to me, the data kind 344 00:17:46,280 --> 00:17:49,480 Speaker 1: of tells the story. And one of those data points, 345 00:17:49,520 --> 00:17:51,879 Speaker 1: and I asked this question in one of my original 346 00:17:51,880 --> 00:17:55,000 Speaker 1: studies ten years ago, and I've updated this over the years, 347 00:17:55,080 --> 00:17:59,000 Speaker 1: is that you know how many core pursuits? I define 348 00:17:59,040 --> 00:18:02,320 Speaker 1: this and when I do my research hobbies on steroids, 349 00:18:02,400 --> 00:18:04,600 Speaker 1: these are things that you live to do how many 350 00:18:04,640 --> 00:18:06,720 Speaker 1: of these things do you have? Period, Like, I don't 351 00:18:06,760 --> 00:18:10,240 Speaker 1: care what they are, I don't care where you do them. 352 00:18:10,520 --> 00:18:13,199 Speaker 1: I don't care who you do them with. What I 353 00:18:13,240 --> 00:18:15,800 Speaker 1: wanted to know, at least the foundation of this is 354 00:18:15,840 --> 00:18:19,000 Speaker 1: how many of them do you have? And I found 355 00:18:19,040 --> 00:18:22,720 Speaker 1: out that the happy group average is three point six 356 00:18:22,960 --> 00:18:26,000 Speaker 1: of these core pursuits and the unhappy group average is 357 00:18:26,080 --> 00:18:28,920 Speaker 1: only one point nine, so less than two and almost 358 00:18:28,920 --> 00:18:31,760 Speaker 1: four and and I and again, by the way, I 359 00:18:31,840 --> 00:18:35,560 Speaker 1: went to down to the Georgia Tech Math department to say, hey, guys, 360 00:18:35,800 --> 00:18:39,040 Speaker 1: can you help me analyze this data for statistical significance 361 00:18:39,040 --> 00:18:41,720 Speaker 1: because this this I want to make sure that this 362 00:18:42,160 --> 00:18:47,840 Speaker 1: has a mathematical relationship that that I can really speak to, 363 00:18:47,880 --> 00:18:50,840 Speaker 1: because this is this is saying a lot. And they 364 00:18:50,840 --> 00:18:52,199 Speaker 1: came back and they said, yeah, they did all these 365 00:18:52,200 --> 00:18:55,760 Speaker 1: different statistical tests on a Ki square testing and and 366 00:18:55,800 --> 00:18:58,760 Speaker 1: they said, yeah, this is this is this is a 367 00:18:58,800 --> 00:19:02,760 Speaker 1: statistically sign ifificant difference between these two groups. And then 368 00:19:02,800 --> 00:19:04,800 Speaker 1: I've explored corporate suits further than that. But I think 369 00:19:04,840 --> 00:19:07,639 Speaker 1: the first thing is is that it doesn't matter what 370 00:19:07,800 --> 00:19:10,800 Speaker 1: they are, it matters that you have them. And then 371 00:19:10,840 --> 00:19:12,879 Speaker 1: I've evolved that over the years, but we've got to 372 00:19:12,920 --> 00:19:16,639 Speaker 1: have these three point six or more hobbies on steroids, 373 00:19:16,680 --> 00:19:20,080 Speaker 1: so much so that I actually I actually built a 374 00:19:20,280 --> 00:19:24,000 Speaker 1: I did some more research around the top core pursuits 375 00:19:24,040 --> 00:19:26,879 Speaker 1: for happy retirees, and I came back with called I 376 00:19:26,920 --> 00:19:29,680 Speaker 1: think a hundred and fifty different ones because I started 377 00:19:29,680 --> 00:19:31,400 Speaker 1: to get all these questionable what are the happy ones? 378 00:19:31,400 --> 00:19:33,000 Speaker 1: And what do I what should I be? I don't 379 00:19:33,040 --> 00:19:34,720 Speaker 1: have a lot of these west what should I be doing? 380 00:19:35,040 --> 00:19:39,040 Speaker 1: So actually build our team, built the retired stuitor team. 381 00:19:39,080 --> 00:19:43,200 Speaker 1: We build an algorithm where it will you go through 382 00:19:43,200 --> 00:19:45,280 Speaker 1: a series of about five questions, like you picked the 383 00:19:45,280 --> 00:19:47,520 Speaker 1: picture that makes sense to you, like I'm indoor outdoor, 384 00:19:47,640 --> 00:19:50,040 Speaker 1: I'm I'd like to give money to cherry or work 385 00:19:50,080 --> 00:19:52,440 Speaker 1: for a charity. So you do these this this this 386 00:19:52,520 --> 00:19:57,520 Speaker 1: algorithmic picture test, and it serves up a dozen of 387 00:19:57,600 --> 00:20:01,240 Speaker 1: the most appropriate corporate suits that you should look into 388 00:20:02,240 --> 00:20:05,040 Speaker 1: in your life. So I'm a big believer in this. Yeah, 389 00:20:05,080 --> 00:20:07,000 Speaker 1: I like that, and I like that you're helping people 390 00:20:07,040 --> 00:20:08,880 Speaker 1: find because there are a lot of people who here, 391 00:20:09,160 --> 00:20:12,640 Speaker 1: okay hobbies on steroids, and they probably start like thinking, mentally, 392 00:20:12,880 --> 00:20:15,639 Speaker 1: what are those in my life, which ones are like 393 00:20:15,680 --> 00:20:17,920 Speaker 1: what am I pursuing? And I think that's a good 394 00:20:17,960 --> 00:20:21,040 Speaker 1: recipe for figuring out like whether you have enough like 395 00:20:21,119 --> 00:20:23,600 Speaker 1: which which of those hobbies are you pursuing with a passion? 396 00:20:24,000 --> 00:20:27,080 Speaker 1: And as I don't know, as a dude with young kids, 397 00:20:27,119 --> 00:20:29,080 Speaker 1: I find it harder to pursue some of those hobbies. 398 00:20:29,200 --> 00:20:31,000 Speaker 1: But they're still there, and some of them are lying 399 00:20:31,080 --> 00:20:33,640 Speaker 1: a little more dormant than i'd like. But I wish 400 00:20:33,640 --> 00:20:35,280 Speaker 1: I had the time to go play more disc golf, 401 00:20:35,640 --> 00:20:37,960 Speaker 1: but I don't. Um, But yeah, I want to ask 402 00:20:38,000 --> 00:20:40,800 Speaker 1: to like, some of the other habits that you consistently 403 00:20:40,800 --> 00:20:44,639 Speaker 1: found that lead to happiness have to do with staying healthy, 404 00:20:44,680 --> 00:20:46,440 Speaker 1: So yeah, what did you find in your research when 405 00:20:46,440 --> 00:20:50,200 Speaker 1: it comes to like staying physically active and paying attention 406 00:20:50,280 --> 00:20:52,600 Speaker 1: to what you're eating stuff like that? Did the happiest, 407 00:20:52,640 --> 00:20:55,240 Speaker 1: happiest diaries seem to focus more on that stuff? Right? 408 00:20:55,560 --> 00:20:59,359 Speaker 1: They really, they really do. And there's no particular way 409 00:20:59,440 --> 00:21:02,080 Speaker 1: that at least I say again, I'm a big fan 410 00:21:02,119 --> 00:21:04,720 Speaker 1: of Dan Butner's work, which he's he's the author of 411 00:21:04,720 --> 00:21:08,520 Speaker 1: the Blue Zones, and his whole entire thesis is is 412 00:21:08,600 --> 00:21:12,960 Speaker 1: identifying the longest lived people in the planet and looking 413 00:21:13,000 --> 00:21:15,000 Speaker 1: to see what they have in common. And what's interesting 414 00:21:15,040 --> 00:21:17,199 Speaker 1: is that none of them have the same diet. They 415 00:21:17,240 --> 00:21:20,879 Speaker 1: all have different diets. And what's interesting about and I 416 00:21:20,920 --> 00:21:23,480 Speaker 1: wanted to see. I did ask this question around what 417 00:21:23,600 --> 00:21:25,240 Speaker 1: kind of diet do you have and what And the 418 00:21:25,280 --> 00:21:29,240 Speaker 1: reality here is that there is no perfect diet. But 419 00:21:29,480 --> 00:21:33,159 Speaker 1: what I found both through research and knowing retirees for 420 00:21:33,200 --> 00:21:36,040 Speaker 1: many years and working with them for so many years, 421 00:21:36,119 --> 00:21:40,000 Speaker 1: is that they have some sort of diet discipline and 422 00:21:40,119 --> 00:21:42,600 Speaker 1: doesn't matter what it is. It just matters that they 423 00:21:42,680 --> 00:21:45,800 Speaker 1: have that sort of discipline and that husband and wife 424 00:21:45,880 --> 00:21:47,840 Speaker 1: or you don't have to be married to be happy retiree, 425 00:21:47,840 --> 00:21:50,960 Speaker 1: by the way, but they're very intentional about what their 426 00:21:51,000 --> 00:21:55,760 Speaker 1: diet is, so whatever that is is important to establish. 427 00:21:55,800 --> 00:21:57,920 Speaker 1: The second piece of the health equation here is that 428 00:21:58,440 --> 00:22:00,520 Speaker 1: many of the core pursuits of the how P group 429 00:22:01,160 --> 00:22:06,320 Speaker 1: are are athletic or let's call that, let's call it 430 00:22:06,600 --> 00:22:12,520 Speaker 1: movement orient or social not just social, but athletic oriented pursuits. 431 00:22:12,600 --> 00:22:14,440 Speaker 1: So I talked about this in the book called Ings 432 00:22:14,480 --> 00:22:18,439 Speaker 1: the walking, biking, hiking, running, swimming, cycling. These are the 433 00:22:18,480 --> 00:22:22,480 Speaker 1: things that are very often both corporate suits and exercise related, 434 00:22:23,320 --> 00:22:26,919 Speaker 1: and it is it is rare for a happy retiree 435 00:22:27,000 --> 00:22:30,439 Speaker 1: not to engage at least some other corporate suits in 436 00:22:30,520 --> 00:22:33,520 Speaker 1: something that is athletic oriented. It seems like that would 437 00:22:33,520 --> 00:22:35,200 Speaker 1: be kind of two birds with one stone, right, It's like, 438 00:22:35,200 --> 00:22:37,040 Speaker 1: I've got this hobby and it's keeping me fit. So 439 00:22:37,040 --> 00:22:39,880 Speaker 1: it's got like it's got like a double effect. Yeah, 440 00:22:40,040 --> 00:22:43,399 Speaker 1: whether it's you know, whether it's hiking, you know, whether 441 00:22:43,480 --> 00:22:47,240 Speaker 1: you're trying to climb every peak, you know, every foot 442 00:22:47,280 --> 00:22:49,800 Speaker 1: peak or every fifteen thousand foot peak in the United States, 443 00:22:50,480 --> 00:22:54,119 Speaker 1: or you're literally just walking around. In the state of Georgia, 444 00:22:54,160 --> 00:22:56,080 Speaker 1: we have something called Stone Mountain, which is kind of 445 00:22:56,119 --> 00:22:58,600 Speaker 1: like a little lump in the ground. It's a tiny 446 00:22:58,600 --> 00:23:01,760 Speaker 1: little mountain, but it's it's cool and it's uh, it's 447 00:23:01,800 --> 00:23:04,879 Speaker 1: the wilderness. And and people in Atlanta love to go 448 00:23:05,359 --> 00:23:08,199 Speaker 1: five mile hikes and on Stone Mountain it's it's you know, 449 00:23:08,240 --> 00:23:12,320 Speaker 1: it's not Mount Everest, but it's it's it's athletic, it's 450 00:23:12,480 --> 00:23:16,080 Speaker 1: and it it kills. To your point, it's kind of 451 00:23:16,080 --> 00:23:19,520 Speaker 1: two birds with one stone. Yeah, Well, so West Earlier, 452 00:23:19,680 --> 00:23:22,560 Speaker 1: you know, you mentioned that music purchases are are kind 453 00:23:22,560 --> 00:23:24,639 Speaker 1: of like your splurge, and you know, one of the 454 00:23:24,640 --> 00:23:26,399 Speaker 1: things that we can do as individuals is go and 455 00:23:26,480 --> 00:23:30,080 Speaker 1: see live music. And so you actually, I don't know, 456 00:23:30,200 --> 00:23:32,359 Speaker 1: was this a little self serving for you? But I 457 00:23:32,359 --> 00:23:34,480 Speaker 1: found it funny because uh when you mentioned that earlier, 458 00:23:34,520 --> 00:23:37,600 Speaker 1: because I mean, you found there there's evidence that shows 459 00:23:37,680 --> 00:23:40,240 Speaker 1: that this is also one of those habits. Uh, concerts 460 00:23:40,440 --> 00:23:44,720 Speaker 1: tell us about that. Yeah, so that is interesting. Um, 461 00:23:44,840 --> 00:23:49,639 Speaker 1: atrops love music and maybe that is self serving. Um, 462 00:23:49,760 --> 00:23:54,040 Speaker 1: So it is interesting that you know, if if you 463 00:23:55,680 --> 00:23:58,240 Speaker 1: and I don't think, yeah, there's there's any particular kind 464 00:23:58,280 --> 00:24:01,560 Speaker 1: of music, but there are multiple studies. This isn't just 465 00:24:01,640 --> 00:24:03,800 Speaker 1: my my work, but there are if it was only 466 00:24:03,800 --> 00:24:06,320 Speaker 1: heavy metal by the way, or something like that, A 467 00:24:06,520 --> 00:24:12,080 Speaker 1: trobs love a C D c. Um. You know, I 468 00:24:12,359 --> 00:24:14,720 Speaker 1: the this is not just my rich research. I actually 469 00:24:14,720 --> 00:24:18,159 Speaker 1: I've read several different studies around this, and and it 470 00:24:18,320 --> 00:24:23,959 Speaker 1: is interesting that music is something that we we find 471 00:24:24,320 --> 00:24:29,400 Speaker 1: that is a consistent habit in happy humans around the world. 472 00:24:29,400 --> 00:24:32,000 Speaker 1: And maybe that goes back to something deeper, right. I mean, 473 00:24:32,840 --> 00:24:37,080 Speaker 1: it is amazing to me how impactful music can be. UM. 474 00:24:37,240 --> 00:24:39,240 Speaker 1: And there's so many different kinds of it, and I 475 00:24:39,320 --> 00:24:41,160 Speaker 1: we we all look at our kids music and whatever 476 00:24:41,160 --> 00:24:44,399 Speaker 1: they're listening to sounds awful. And our parents did the 477 00:24:44,440 --> 00:24:46,800 Speaker 1: same thing. I remember my dad saying the same thing, 478 00:24:46,880 --> 00:24:48,600 Speaker 1: like what you guys listen to is terrible, And I 479 00:24:48,600 --> 00:24:50,960 Speaker 1: look at my kids, I say, you know, whatever you 480 00:24:50,960 --> 00:24:54,440 Speaker 1: guys listen to is awful. But there's something about it 481 00:24:54,480 --> 00:24:57,200 Speaker 1: that is maybe just in our d n A that 482 00:24:57,200 --> 00:24:59,800 Speaker 1: that brings out some sort of I don't know if 483 00:24:59,800 --> 00:25:03,240 Speaker 1: it's spirituality, it's some sort of endorphin release, but there 484 00:25:03,359 --> 00:25:07,320 Speaker 1: there's a real connection between music, whether that's concerts or 485 00:25:07,359 --> 00:25:12,560 Speaker 1: playing music and individuals happiness levels. All right, So your 486 00:25:12,560 --> 00:25:15,760 Speaker 1: podcast it's called Retire Sooner, and one of the things 487 00:25:15,840 --> 00:25:18,320 Speaker 1: you say that many folks can and they should be 488 00:25:18,400 --> 00:25:21,919 Speaker 1: retiring sooner than they had planned to. And so I 489 00:25:21,960 --> 00:25:23,960 Speaker 1: want to know from your perspective, like why is that? 490 00:25:24,000 --> 00:25:27,240 Speaker 1: Because most financial planners actually say the opposite. They want 491 00:25:27,280 --> 00:25:28,760 Speaker 1: you to keep working, they want you to keep saving, 492 00:25:28,760 --> 00:25:31,359 Speaker 1: they want you to to keep on investing, and I feel 493 00:25:31,359 --> 00:25:33,760 Speaker 1: like that's a treadmill that they continue to put their 494 00:25:33,760 --> 00:25:37,280 Speaker 1: clients on when there are so many other ways to 495 00:25:37,320 --> 00:25:40,960 Speaker 1: approach that problem. And yes, so like why from your 496 00:25:41,119 --> 00:25:43,919 Speaker 1: financial planner brain do you come up with a different solution, 497 00:25:43,960 --> 00:25:45,760 Speaker 1: which is no, actually, like, let's help you get there, 498 00:25:45,840 --> 00:25:48,440 Speaker 1: Let's help you retire sooner than you thought you could. Yeah, 499 00:25:48,480 --> 00:25:51,119 Speaker 1: because it's funny, and this does get me kind of 500 00:25:51,119 --> 00:25:54,600 Speaker 1: worked up. But there's this thought, and maybe it's Wall Street, 501 00:25:54,640 --> 00:25:57,920 Speaker 1: and maybe it's other, there's other financial folks. Susie Ormer 502 00:25:58,000 --> 00:25:59,840 Speaker 1: is one of these that will kind of preach that 503 00:26:01,400 --> 00:26:04,159 Speaker 1: a it's it's never enough. Now. I understand that on 504 00:26:04,200 --> 00:26:06,560 Speaker 1: Wall Street, Right, if you're a publicly traded company, you 505 00:26:06,600 --> 00:26:08,919 Speaker 1: don't want to ever tell your investors it's enough because 506 00:26:09,160 --> 00:26:10,960 Speaker 1: you want to keep having them add and add an 507 00:26:10,960 --> 00:26:13,560 Speaker 1: ad forever. Right's it's I think it's a little self serving. 508 00:26:14,080 --> 00:26:16,560 Speaker 1: You don't want Amazon to say we're really done acquiring 509 00:26:16,560 --> 00:26:18,200 Speaker 1: customers were good at this point. We're gonna find the 510 00:26:18,280 --> 00:26:21,760 Speaker 1: right balance for the right corporate balance, and we're gonna 511 00:26:21,800 --> 00:26:24,760 Speaker 1: take it easy. We're easy for we have plenty of clients. 512 00:26:24,840 --> 00:26:27,399 Speaker 1: We're easy. But when you're publicly traded and you're one 513 00:26:27,440 --> 00:26:29,480 Speaker 1: of the big firms, you're you're always growing, you're saying 514 00:26:29,800 --> 00:26:34,760 Speaker 1: it's it's to some extent, and it's also a safe call, guys. Right, 515 00:26:34,840 --> 00:26:38,080 Speaker 1: It's like, if you're a financial Advisor. It's a safe 516 00:26:38,080 --> 00:26:40,359 Speaker 1: call to say, you know, you have a million, but 517 00:26:40,400 --> 00:26:42,280 Speaker 1: you really be better off with a million and a half. 518 00:26:43,200 --> 00:26:44,879 Speaker 1: You have two million, you really for your life, so 519 00:26:44,960 --> 00:26:47,080 Speaker 1: you probably need three million. And that may be appropriate 520 00:26:47,119 --> 00:26:50,520 Speaker 1: and maybe correct, but it's also kind of never wrong. 521 00:26:51,280 --> 00:26:52,920 Speaker 1: And I also think of it this way. And again 522 00:26:52,920 --> 00:26:56,080 Speaker 1: it's another Susie Ormond. It's a it's a little jab 523 00:26:56,080 --> 00:26:59,080 Speaker 1: at Susie here, and again I think she does a 524 00:26:59,080 --> 00:27:01,320 Speaker 1: wonderful job, but I I kind of believe the opposite 525 00:27:01,359 --> 00:27:03,719 Speaker 1: of a lot of the things she believes, um is 526 00:27:03,760 --> 00:27:06,320 Speaker 1: that you should work. One of the things she says 527 00:27:06,359 --> 00:27:08,680 Speaker 1: that first of all, you need a five million dollars minimum. 528 00:27:08,720 --> 00:27:11,479 Speaker 1: She says, it's better better you should get to ten. Okay, Well, 529 00:27:11,520 --> 00:27:13,480 Speaker 1: first of all that most people just check out, and 530 00:27:13,480 --> 00:27:15,080 Speaker 1: they're like, well, that will never happen, So I'm out 531 00:27:15,080 --> 00:27:17,640 Speaker 1: of the game. When she says five, that's when folks 532 00:27:17,720 --> 00:27:19,800 Speaker 1: check out. Yeah, even just that, that's like, that's no, 533 00:27:20,240 --> 00:27:23,800 Speaker 1: by far higher bar than even then anybody I know 534 00:27:23,920 --> 00:27:26,760 Speaker 1: is saving up to try. You're looking at the point 535 00:27:26,920 --> 00:27:29,199 Speaker 1: like a point one of one of one tenth of 536 00:27:29,240 --> 00:27:32,040 Speaker 1: one percent in America. That everything thinks about that and 537 00:27:32,080 --> 00:27:33,560 Speaker 1: then she said, no, you really got to get to 538 00:27:33,640 --> 00:27:37,960 Speaker 1: ten to cover emergencies, like okay. Then she also says, 539 00:27:38,480 --> 00:27:40,359 Speaker 1: and again this is safe. This is a safe thing 540 00:27:40,400 --> 00:27:43,040 Speaker 1: to say. How do you never run out of money? Well, 541 00:27:43,400 --> 00:27:45,880 Speaker 1: you never run the money if you work and work 542 00:27:45,920 --> 00:27:51,600 Speaker 1: and work until you die. Right if if you work 543 00:27:52,520 --> 00:27:55,280 Speaker 1: and you if you never stopped working and you die 544 00:27:55,359 --> 00:27:56,960 Speaker 1: on the job, well guess why you never ran up 545 00:27:56,960 --> 00:28:00,080 Speaker 1: a paycheck. That's a pretty safe way to play it. 546 00:27:59,840 --> 00:28:03,320 Speaker 1: But it's also not practical. And and as much as 547 00:28:03,440 --> 00:28:06,520 Speaker 1: I'd love and I'm very fortunate, and you guys are 548 00:28:06,560 --> 00:28:08,560 Speaker 1: like this. I know you guys love your job. You guys, 549 00:28:08,760 --> 00:28:12,040 Speaker 1: Matt and Joel, have you htm is amazing. You guys 550 00:28:12,040 --> 00:28:15,359 Speaker 1: have a fun time. You guys love this great balance 551 00:28:16,680 --> 00:28:20,720 Speaker 1: of America doesn't And over and over and over again, 552 00:28:20,760 --> 00:28:23,320 Speaker 1: Gardner Group looks, does this work an engagement study? And 553 00:28:23,359 --> 00:28:25,960 Speaker 1: we all know in fact the numbers actually are a 554 00:28:26,000 --> 00:28:28,359 Speaker 1: little higher than they've been recently when I first started 555 00:28:28,359 --> 00:28:31,320 Speaker 1: all this there it's something like thirty six per cent today, 556 00:28:31,320 --> 00:28:33,760 Speaker 1: which is the most we've seen in twenty years that 557 00:28:33,800 --> 00:28:36,800 Speaker 1: people are actually engaged in work. But that also means 558 00:28:36,840 --> 00:28:41,520 Speaker 1: it's sixty of people are not. So two thirds of 559 00:28:41,560 --> 00:28:46,520 Speaker 1: America doesn't really like their job one in five one 560 00:28:46,560 --> 00:28:50,600 Speaker 1: in five, so twenty of America millions and tens of 561 00:28:50,600 --> 00:28:53,200 Speaker 1: million people hate their jobs so much they're literally trying 562 00:28:53,240 --> 00:28:56,080 Speaker 1: to bring their company down. I remember reading that in 563 00:28:56,120 --> 00:28:58,520 Speaker 1: your book and I was like, oh, wow, that's not good. 564 00:28:58,640 --> 00:29:00,600 Speaker 1: Like I want my It's like, oh I don't like 565 00:29:00,680 --> 00:29:03,040 Speaker 1: my my my line manager, I want her out. I 566 00:29:03,040 --> 00:29:05,360 Speaker 1: want my manager to get fired. I want I want 567 00:29:05,400 --> 00:29:08,040 Speaker 1: our our sales team to not do well. Like one 568 00:29:08,040 --> 00:29:10,760 Speaker 1: of five people literally think that. So who am I 569 00:29:10,880 --> 00:29:14,200 Speaker 1: to say work forever? I'm here to say, look, you 570 00:29:14,240 --> 00:29:18,000 Speaker 1: don't have to do that. And and I've seen too 571 00:29:18,000 --> 00:29:21,720 Speaker 1: many people struggle for years and years and years, and finally, 572 00:29:21,720 --> 00:29:25,080 Speaker 1: even where they're able to retire and listen, stress levels 573 00:29:25,080 --> 00:29:28,800 Speaker 1: go down, enjoyment goes up. You're doing your core pursuits, 574 00:29:28,840 --> 00:29:32,120 Speaker 1: like I see people come back to life once they're 575 00:29:32,120 --> 00:29:34,240 Speaker 1: done working. And I think, I mean, you can't do 576 00:29:34,280 --> 00:29:36,840 Speaker 1: that unless you have something to pursue. And I think 577 00:29:36,880 --> 00:29:39,560 Speaker 1: that's a big reason why those core pursuits infected you 578 00:29:39,600 --> 00:29:41,360 Speaker 1: so much. Wess. I mean you mentioned it specifically with 579 00:29:41,400 --> 00:29:43,280 Speaker 1: your dad, just the number that he had there and 580 00:29:43,280 --> 00:29:44,840 Speaker 1: I'm glad that we were able to talk about that 581 00:29:45,200 --> 00:29:48,240 Speaker 1: as some habits that we can incorporate into our lives. 582 00:29:48,600 --> 00:29:50,760 Speaker 1: But we're gonna talk specifically about just some of the 583 00:29:50,760 --> 00:29:54,120 Speaker 1: different relational and social habits that can also lead to happiness, 584 00:29:54,120 --> 00:30:05,760 Speaker 1: and we'll get to those right after this break. All right, 585 00:30:05,800 --> 00:30:08,040 Speaker 1: we're back. We're still talking with West Moss talking about 586 00:30:08,040 --> 00:30:11,400 Speaker 1: retiring sooner and increasing your happiness in the here and 587 00:30:11,440 --> 00:30:15,080 Speaker 1: now even before you reach retirement. And West, I love 588 00:30:15,240 --> 00:30:17,120 Speaker 1: how you talk about that. It's not a dichotomy, it's 589 00:30:17,160 --> 00:30:19,040 Speaker 1: a it's a spectrum that we're walking along. We need 590 00:30:19,080 --> 00:30:22,440 Speaker 1: to develop those core pursuits now. And it's also we 591 00:30:22,480 --> 00:30:24,840 Speaker 1: need to realize that you don't have to have ten 592 00:30:24,840 --> 00:30:27,280 Speaker 1: million dollars in the bank in order to actually pull 593 00:30:27,320 --> 00:30:29,560 Speaker 1: the trigger when it comes to quitting work. And we've 594 00:30:29,600 --> 00:30:33,320 Speaker 1: already talked about that importance of core pursuits, but you 595 00:30:33,360 --> 00:30:35,600 Speaker 1: actually in the book you say that there's a multiplier 596 00:30:35,640 --> 00:30:40,200 Speaker 1: effect when those core pursuits involve others like friends and family. 597 00:30:40,480 --> 00:30:44,800 Speaker 1: So yeah, let's talk about families specifically. You discovered that 598 00:30:44,880 --> 00:30:49,760 Speaker 1: Mary couples, they differed significantly from their single counterparts when 599 00:30:49,800 --> 00:30:52,880 Speaker 1: it came to reported levels of happiness. Yeah, how was that? 600 00:30:52,920 --> 00:30:55,280 Speaker 1: What what what did the statistics look like there? Well, well 601 00:30:55,360 --> 00:30:57,520 Speaker 1: let me jump let me just add one thing to you, 602 00:30:57,720 --> 00:30:59,880 Speaker 1: to your to your point about the kind of this 603 00:31:00,080 --> 00:31:03,120 Speaker 1: long list of its financial and its lifestyle, is that 604 00:31:03,280 --> 00:31:06,360 Speaker 1: I look at this, there's thirty of these in what 605 00:31:06,600 --> 00:31:08,720 Speaker 1: in this current book what that bass fire is now? 606 00:31:08,760 --> 00:31:12,800 Speaker 1: And they're to me they're kind of like this old 607 00:31:13,240 --> 00:31:17,520 Speaker 1: family recipe that gets passed down for generation generation. You 608 00:31:17,280 --> 00:31:19,200 Speaker 1: you kind of know all the ingredients, but you don't 609 00:31:19,200 --> 00:31:21,600 Speaker 1: have to use all of them. You just you need 610 00:31:21,640 --> 00:31:24,880 Speaker 1: to you need to have most of them, and you 611 00:31:24,920 --> 00:31:27,560 Speaker 1: can dial up some of the areas and dial back 612 00:31:27,600 --> 00:31:29,600 Speaker 1: some of the areas just like you would in any 613 00:31:29,640 --> 00:31:33,120 Speaker 1: any formula or any recipe, and it still works. And 614 00:31:33,160 --> 00:31:35,160 Speaker 1: a lot of times they serve to Joel as this 615 00:31:36,000 --> 00:31:39,120 Speaker 1: almost financial tiebreakers, because so much of what we talked 616 00:31:39,120 --> 00:31:41,880 Speaker 1: about as families are you and your my wife and I. 617 00:31:42,760 --> 00:31:47,160 Speaker 1: In the end, it we invariably it trickles down to 618 00:31:48,360 --> 00:31:51,000 Speaker 1: one one one question like well, of course we'd like 619 00:31:51,040 --> 00:31:52,200 Speaker 1: to do this, of course we'd like to do this. 620 00:31:52,280 --> 00:31:54,240 Speaker 1: Of course we'd like to do this for the kids, 621 00:31:54,280 --> 00:31:58,080 Speaker 1: But what is it going to cost? So all so 622 00:31:58,120 --> 00:32:01,240 Speaker 1: many conversations in our lives always go back to, well, 623 00:32:01,280 --> 00:32:05,280 Speaker 1: wait a minute, what's gonna cost? And all of these 624 00:32:05,280 --> 00:32:09,200 Speaker 1: activities in there. Again, there's let's call it thirty ingredients there. 625 00:32:09,240 --> 00:32:12,000 Speaker 1: They are important pieces of the formula, but you don't 626 00:32:12,000 --> 00:32:13,560 Speaker 1: have to have all of them. And I look at 627 00:32:13,560 --> 00:32:17,600 Speaker 1: a lot of them as as kind of financial tiebreakers, like, okay, um, 628 00:32:18,120 --> 00:32:22,200 Speaker 1: I don't have to do this, but for instance, paying 629 00:32:22,240 --> 00:32:24,520 Speaker 1: off a mortgage or not paying off a mortgage. To me, 630 00:32:25,360 --> 00:32:29,160 Speaker 1: there's no perfect answer to that question, but my research 631 00:32:29,200 --> 00:32:31,040 Speaker 1: shows that you're a lot happier and have a lot 632 00:32:31,040 --> 00:32:32,880 Speaker 1: more peace of mind if you don't have a mortgage. 633 00:32:32,920 --> 00:32:35,200 Speaker 1: Happiness goes up as used to pay off a mortgage 634 00:32:35,280 --> 00:32:38,080 Speaker 1: go down. So to me, the financial tiebreaker when you're 635 00:32:38,160 --> 00:32:40,239 Speaker 1: kind of contemplating do we pay it off? Do we not? 636 00:32:40,360 --> 00:32:43,560 Speaker 1: As an example, the tiebreaker is, well, it's actually a 637 00:32:43,600 --> 00:32:46,640 Speaker 1: happiness habit as well to figure out a way to 638 00:32:46,640 --> 00:32:48,719 Speaker 1: get rid of the mortgage, because it's a multiplier effect 639 00:32:48,760 --> 00:32:51,960 Speaker 1: on happiness. It's those retirees are within five years of 640 00:32:52,000 --> 00:32:55,400 Speaker 1: paying off their mortgage or less are four x four 641 00:32:55,560 --> 00:32:59,720 Speaker 1: times four times more likely to be happy. Um, And 642 00:32:59,800 --> 00:33:02,640 Speaker 1: I think I you had asked before that we were 643 00:33:02,680 --> 00:33:06,240 Speaker 1: asking about what family or being married, FIRS being single 644 00:33:06,280 --> 00:33:09,239 Speaker 1: when it comes to yea retirement agent. Obviously, some of 645 00:33:09,280 --> 00:33:14,360 Speaker 1: that's there's as you get older, things happen and and 646 00:33:14,600 --> 00:33:18,080 Speaker 1: that's not always a choice even but you did find 647 00:33:18,160 --> 00:33:21,360 Speaker 1: right that that married folks are happier in their retirement 648 00:33:21,400 --> 00:33:25,640 Speaker 1: yars typically higher propensity to land in that happy group 649 00:33:25,720 --> 00:33:28,360 Speaker 1: if you're married. Yep, it's not it's certainly not impossible 650 00:33:28,360 --> 00:33:30,560 Speaker 1: if you're single, but it is that you have a 651 00:33:30,680 --> 00:33:34,400 Speaker 1: higher likelihood. There's a multiplier effect on having a partner 652 00:33:34,400 --> 00:33:38,480 Speaker 1: in life. That's that is clear in the data. The 653 00:33:38,520 --> 00:33:42,640 Speaker 1: other thing that actually surprised me was, and I maybe 654 00:33:43,120 --> 00:33:46,320 Speaker 1: when you're in your forties like I am, you guys 655 00:33:46,320 --> 00:33:49,520 Speaker 1: are younger, but you end up there. I think the 656 00:33:49,560 --> 00:33:51,440 Speaker 1: first ten years of marriage, I didn't know anybody they 657 00:33:51,440 --> 00:33:53,800 Speaker 1: got divorced, and then all of a sudden, you're getting 658 00:33:53,840 --> 00:33:55,920 Speaker 1: your second ten years of marriage and you look around 659 00:33:55,920 --> 00:33:58,960 Speaker 1: you say, wow, I feel like everybody's getting divorced. And 660 00:33:58,960 --> 00:34:01,200 Speaker 1: and when you have forensic go through that in clients 661 00:34:01,200 --> 00:34:04,640 Speaker 1: and families that I work with, it's brutal and it's 662 00:34:04,640 --> 00:34:07,400 Speaker 1: a really difficult period of time, and it takes people 663 00:34:07,680 --> 00:34:10,920 Speaker 1: time to recover and it's usually very difficult. So I 664 00:34:11,000 --> 00:34:14,960 Speaker 1: was surprised in the data I asked. I also related 665 00:34:15,000 --> 00:34:20,040 Speaker 1: back to and it's a huge financial event. Divorces brutal 666 00:34:20,120 --> 00:34:24,440 Speaker 1: financial event for almost everybody. And what was interesting to 667 00:34:24,480 --> 00:34:29,760 Speaker 1: me is that there was no deterioration whatsoever in happiness 668 00:34:29,800 --> 00:34:33,520 Speaker 1: after a divorce in my data, so that being married 669 00:34:33,560 --> 00:34:36,399 Speaker 1: a second time, happiness levels were this were the were 670 00:34:36,440 --> 00:34:38,560 Speaker 1: the same. They didn't go down at all. It was 671 00:34:38,600 --> 00:34:42,640 Speaker 1: only until I hit marriage number three and four where 672 00:34:42,680 --> 00:34:46,520 Speaker 1: we started to see happiness levels decline, but no decline. 673 00:34:46,640 --> 00:34:48,799 Speaker 1: And I almost call this marriage mulligan, Like, hey, we 674 00:34:48,840 --> 00:34:52,040 Speaker 1: all get a marriage vulligan. You get one shot. Make 675 00:34:52,080 --> 00:34:54,479 Speaker 1: sure you know you get Do you get one shot? 676 00:34:54,520 --> 00:34:58,560 Speaker 1: Doesn't work, you get a mull again. Yeah, you get wonderforce. 677 00:34:58,600 --> 00:35:01,000 Speaker 1: You get one divorce. No big deal. And I remember 678 00:35:01,000 --> 00:35:04,360 Speaker 1: telling Lynn about this. She was like, uh, she goes, no, 679 00:35:04,680 --> 00:35:06,880 Speaker 1: It'll know your life would be ruined. If your life 680 00:35:06,920 --> 00:35:09,319 Speaker 1: is going to let me tell you, I'll make sure 681 00:35:09,440 --> 00:35:13,400 Speaker 1: that West you'll never see your children. Speaking of kids, 682 00:35:13,520 --> 00:35:15,520 Speaker 1: lest you know, your research also found that the number 683 00:35:15,560 --> 00:35:19,040 Speaker 1: of kids we have has an impact on our happiness. So, 684 00:35:19,040 --> 00:35:21,160 Speaker 1: so tell us how many kids should should we be having? 685 00:35:21,440 --> 00:35:25,439 Speaker 1: Was the average? The unhappy retiree, on average has point 686 00:35:25,480 --> 00:35:31,040 Speaker 1: five children. The happy retiree has two point five And 687 00:35:31,120 --> 00:35:32,880 Speaker 1: so I don't know what the right answer there is 688 00:35:32,920 --> 00:35:35,960 Speaker 1: that I think there is there's obviously relationship more kids 689 00:35:36,640 --> 00:35:39,640 Speaker 1: leads to more happiness. But here's another plateau effect, right, 690 00:35:39,640 --> 00:35:41,520 Speaker 1: It's like, I don't know what the right number is. 691 00:35:41,560 --> 00:35:45,399 Speaker 1: But I remember having the conversation, probably a little too much. Yeah, yeah, 692 00:35:45,400 --> 00:35:48,360 Speaker 1: I feel like if you're Amish and you've got like seventeen, 693 00:35:48,440 --> 00:35:51,520 Speaker 1: you know, fifteen kids, I don't know, it sounds difficult 694 00:35:51,600 --> 00:35:54,680 Speaker 1: in the modern world that we live in today, but um, yeah, 695 00:35:54,719 --> 00:35:56,920 Speaker 1: I don't know. I think that I do know that 696 00:35:56,920 --> 00:35:59,200 Speaker 1: that my research has two point five kids. So three 697 00:35:59,280 --> 00:36:03,319 Speaker 1: kids is it seems like a good happiness number. But 698 00:36:03,400 --> 00:36:05,799 Speaker 1: kids are expensive and we just we can't, you know, 699 00:36:05,840 --> 00:36:08,720 Speaker 1: we're they're a huge commitment. They're expensive, and you can't 700 00:36:08,760 --> 00:36:11,239 Speaker 1: just in the world we live in, pretty tough to 701 00:36:11,280 --> 00:36:15,040 Speaker 1: have more than than a few kids. And I remember thinking, 702 00:36:16,040 --> 00:36:17,920 Speaker 1: and to this day, when somebody says, oh, I have 703 00:36:17,960 --> 00:36:23,040 Speaker 1: four children, I think my gut reaction for split second is, oh, 704 00:36:23,080 --> 00:36:28,680 Speaker 1: how are you responsible of you calling Matt irresponsible? Wait? 705 00:36:28,800 --> 00:36:31,279 Speaker 1: Wait what you're calling yourself irresponsible because you have four 706 00:36:32,360 --> 00:36:35,680 Speaker 1: Matt exactly. But I do remember as I was dumb 707 00:36:36,120 --> 00:36:38,600 Speaker 1: when I was younger, I was like, oh, that's crazy, 708 00:36:38,960 --> 00:36:43,440 Speaker 1: who could afford four kids? And um, and my research 709 00:36:43,440 --> 00:36:47,000 Speaker 1: showed that, hey, keep having kids. So Matt, you're you're fine, 710 00:36:47,000 --> 00:36:48,840 Speaker 1: You're right on the right track. I didn't see that 711 00:36:48,880 --> 00:36:52,279 Speaker 1: happiness levels actually went down. I just they didn't. They 712 00:36:52,480 --> 00:36:55,000 Speaker 1: might keep going up exactly well, and and so much 713 00:36:55,040 --> 00:36:57,799 Speaker 1: of this is personal. Just like you said, like there 714 00:36:57,920 --> 00:37:00,160 Speaker 1: there isn't necessarily going to be a right answer or 715 00:37:00,160 --> 00:37:02,120 Speaker 1: I like what you said to just about cooking, right, 716 00:37:02,200 --> 00:37:04,319 Speaker 1: like these are all different ingredients and you figure out 717 00:37:04,360 --> 00:37:06,560 Speaker 1: how all of these different habits are going to work 718 00:37:06,600 --> 00:37:08,800 Speaker 1: their way into your life. This is a perfect example 719 00:37:08,800 --> 00:37:11,040 Speaker 1: of how like happiness in life is. It's more like 720 00:37:11,120 --> 00:37:14,360 Speaker 1: cooking and it's less like baking, right because it doesn't 721 00:37:14,400 --> 00:37:16,799 Speaker 1: have to be the strict formulate you know, where it's 722 00:37:16,800 --> 00:37:18,920 Speaker 1: got to be exactly two and a half tablespoons of 723 00:37:18,960 --> 00:37:21,080 Speaker 1: this powder or whatever. I don't bake, so I don't. 724 00:37:22,200 --> 00:37:23,719 Speaker 1: But as far as cooking, you just like, all right, 725 00:37:23,800 --> 00:37:25,600 Speaker 1: let's just throw it on the grill kind of watch it. 726 00:37:25,640 --> 00:37:27,080 Speaker 1: Maybe add a little bit of this, a little bit 727 00:37:27,120 --> 00:37:28,839 Speaker 1: of that, or like if you're making a stew, it's 728 00:37:28,880 --> 00:37:31,880 Speaker 1: just like the giants. Yeah, that's exactly. That's it. That's 729 00:37:31,880 --> 00:37:34,759 Speaker 1: my new analogy. It's like a giant family. There you go, 730 00:37:34,960 --> 00:37:37,360 Speaker 1: It's less like baking a cake. So so you know, 731 00:37:37,360 --> 00:37:39,200 Speaker 1: one of the other things in that stew were talked 732 00:37:39,239 --> 00:37:41,800 Speaker 1: about family, but it's it's friends too, and just social 733 00:37:41,800 --> 00:37:45,919 Speaker 1: networks in general. So yeah, interestingly enough West, Like, there's 734 00:37:45,960 --> 00:37:48,360 Speaker 1: a statistic that's uh that recently came out. It's like 735 00:37:48,400 --> 00:37:51,960 Speaker 1: half of all Americans actually say they have fewer than 736 00:37:52,120 --> 00:37:54,880 Speaker 1: three close friends. And when you look at the statistics 737 00:37:54,880 --> 00:37:57,959 Speaker 1: back from like the nineties early nineties, people had way 738 00:37:58,000 --> 00:38:01,080 Speaker 1: more friends like they we just there's definitely like a 739 00:38:01,160 --> 00:38:04,000 Speaker 1: friendship crisis, I would say, happening in our country. So yeah, 740 00:38:04,040 --> 00:38:05,960 Speaker 1: what's your take on this trend? And it certainly seems 741 00:38:05,960 --> 00:38:08,680 Speaker 1: like an a drob is going to have like more 742 00:38:08,680 --> 00:38:12,560 Speaker 1: close social social connections in their retirement years. Yeah, it's 743 00:38:12,600 --> 00:38:16,640 Speaker 1: it's again, this is one of those habits that takes time, energy, 744 00:38:16,680 --> 00:38:19,919 Speaker 1: and effort, and it's this is a perfect example of 745 00:38:20,560 --> 00:38:23,279 Speaker 1: You can't just go through life being too busy for 746 00:38:23,320 --> 00:38:25,400 Speaker 1: the rest of the world and then expect for the 747 00:38:25,400 --> 00:38:28,120 Speaker 1: rest of the world to be ready when you're ready. Period. 748 00:38:29,000 --> 00:38:32,080 Speaker 1: And this is this is probably the best example of that, 749 00:38:32,640 --> 00:38:35,680 Speaker 1: is that you need the cultivation of these close connections 750 00:38:36,080 --> 00:38:39,480 Speaker 1: takes a lot of time, and it's it takes constant work. 751 00:38:39,520 --> 00:38:44,560 Speaker 1: It's constant, right, and it also evolves because people move, right, people, 752 00:38:44,880 --> 00:38:50,400 Speaker 1: people get divorced, and then friends go separate ways. People unfortunately, 753 00:38:50,400 --> 00:38:53,319 Speaker 1: people die, Like we live in a world where your 754 00:38:53,640 --> 00:38:58,759 Speaker 1: three friends may not be logistically may be difficult to 755 00:38:59,120 --> 00:39:02,600 Speaker 1: be with those three friends for the next fifty years, right, 756 00:39:02,640 --> 00:39:05,640 Speaker 1: They one might move, somebody may get divorced and have 757 00:39:05,760 --> 00:39:10,520 Speaker 1: to move and not there's this is this constant work 758 00:39:10,560 --> 00:39:15,200 Speaker 1: in progress where you have to really focus in on 759 00:39:15,840 --> 00:39:18,480 Speaker 1: cultivating close connections. And I don't know why, guys, I 760 00:39:18,520 --> 00:39:22,040 Speaker 1: actually have no idea, Like why today we have less 761 00:39:22,080 --> 00:39:24,279 Speaker 1: on average than we used to. In the nineties, we 762 00:39:24,360 --> 00:39:28,120 Speaker 1: had three on average close connections in America. Today we 763 00:39:28,200 --> 00:39:31,560 Speaker 1: have you know, thousands of friends on social media and 764 00:39:31,600 --> 00:39:34,960 Speaker 1: we have on average less close close close connections, close friends. 765 00:39:35,000 --> 00:39:37,200 Speaker 1: I don't think you just answered your question. I mean 766 00:39:37,200 --> 00:39:39,560 Speaker 1: I've got two virtual friends and it doesn't have the 767 00:39:39,600 --> 00:39:43,600 Speaker 1: same happiness level effects. That's the case absolutely, because when 768 00:39:43,600 --> 00:39:46,360 Speaker 1: when we're not interacting, you know, in each other's lives 769 00:39:46,360 --> 00:39:48,880 Speaker 1: on a if not daily basis, like weekly basis, and 770 00:39:48,960 --> 00:39:51,719 Speaker 1: really digging in deep, Like you don't really do that 771 00:39:51,800 --> 00:39:54,560 Speaker 1: online with all the folks you knew from your you know, 772 00:39:54,640 --> 00:39:57,239 Speaker 1: you're graduating class, or you know all your previous co 773 00:39:57,320 --> 00:39:59,400 Speaker 1: workers that you keep in touch with maybe on with 774 00:39:59,480 --> 00:40:02,120 Speaker 1: on LinkedIn kind of you might know their political views 775 00:40:02,160 --> 00:40:04,040 Speaker 1: and you might know the last vacation that they took, 776 00:40:04,080 --> 00:40:06,480 Speaker 1: But that's like the extent of your interactions and and 777 00:40:06,520 --> 00:40:09,040 Speaker 1: that actually, I think it leads to like a shallow 778 00:40:09,080 --> 00:40:12,120 Speaker 1: feeling as opposed to actual feelings of close connection. And 779 00:40:12,320 --> 00:40:14,319 Speaker 1: I think too, uh, I don't know West if you've 780 00:40:14,320 --> 00:40:16,719 Speaker 1: experienced this. I know I have during COVID. It's like 781 00:40:16,840 --> 00:40:19,360 Speaker 1: I've certainly been able to maintain a few close friendships 782 00:40:19,360 --> 00:40:22,239 Speaker 1: and I don't think I've let my connections with with 783 00:40:22,320 --> 00:40:25,080 Speaker 1: good friends like linger too much. But it's been harder. 784 00:40:25,160 --> 00:40:26,319 Speaker 1: It's been a lot harder, And I think a lot 785 00:40:26,320 --> 00:40:28,359 Speaker 1: of people are feeling that effect right now too. Yeah, 786 00:40:28,360 --> 00:40:31,719 Speaker 1: it's been harder and maybe maybe we were at a 787 00:40:31,760 --> 00:40:34,640 Speaker 1: crescendo of that because we're kind of at this social 788 00:40:34,640 --> 00:40:37,400 Speaker 1: media is now, it's not new anymore where we've we've 789 00:40:37,480 --> 00:40:40,279 Speaker 1: kind of lived with it for fifteen some years, and 790 00:40:40,360 --> 00:40:44,160 Speaker 1: maybe it's spread us too thin socially. It's like it's 791 00:40:44,280 --> 00:40:46,920 Speaker 1: it's where a mile wide and an inch deep relative 792 00:40:46,960 --> 00:40:49,560 Speaker 1: to the way it used to be. And so I don't. 793 00:40:49,600 --> 00:40:52,400 Speaker 1: I don't. That's that's probably one of the major culprits. 794 00:40:52,440 --> 00:40:56,479 Speaker 1: But what my findings here are very clear is that 795 00:40:56,840 --> 00:41:00,200 Speaker 1: the happy group has close to four close connections. These 796 00:41:00,200 --> 00:41:02,680 Speaker 1: are people that I identified in my research. I said, 797 00:41:02,680 --> 00:41:05,480 Speaker 1: look this, by the way, a close connection or close 798 00:41:05,520 --> 00:41:09,440 Speaker 1: friend is someone you will call with really good news 799 00:41:10,080 --> 00:41:12,600 Speaker 1: or really bad news. I either, and sometimes really good 800 00:41:12,600 --> 00:41:15,200 Speaker 1: news is just as hard as really bad news. And 801 00:41:15,239 --> 00:41:16,880 Speaker 1: you've got to be They've got to love you for 802 00:41:16,920 --> 00:41:21,000 Speaker 1: who you are, and that takes time, an effort, and cultivation, 803 00:41:21,680 --> 00:41:24,080 Speaker 1: and it's not gonna necessarily be the same three or 804 00:41:24,120 --> 00:41:27,000 Speaker 1: four people for your entire life. So it's something that 805 00:41:27,080 --> 00:41:29,960 Speaker 1: you've got to be. It's one of those ingredients in 806 00:41:30,000 --> 00:41:33,120 Speaker 1: the stew Matt that we're we have to be working 807 00:41:33,160 --> 00:41:35,440 Speaker 1: on today in our twenties, and I'd say this one 808 00:41:35,520 --> 00:41:39,080 Speaker 1: is not an optional. This is a non negotiable, not 809 00:41:39,239 --> 00:41:45,319 Speaker 1: an optional piece of the recipe. This is like this salt, 810 00:41:45,360 --> 00:41:51,600 Speaker 1: best friends, chicken and the chicken stew. It's necessary and 811 00:41:52,320 --> 00:41:54,319 Speaker 1: I love too. I mean, Joel, as we're reading through 812 00:41:54,320 --> 00:41:55,920 Speaker 1: your book, you know, you talked about one of the 813 00:41:55,920 --> 00:41:59,320 Speaker 1: ways that you foster and grow those relationships obviously spending 814 00:41:59,320 --> 00:42:01,680 Speaker 1: time together, but it's talk about traveling together. I think 815 00:42:01,680 --> 00:42:03,319 Speaker 1: that was really encouraging for both of us to read 816 00:42:03,320 --> 00:42:05,719 Speaker 1: because as we are starting to look ahead to like 817 00:42:05,800 --> 00:42:07,879 Speaker 1: kind of beginning of next year when we're talking about 818 00:42:07,920 --> 00:42:10,839 Speaker 1: maybe heading up to Kentucky, maybe checking out the Bourbon Trail, 819 00:42:10,920 --> 00:42:13,120 Speaker 1: that kind of thing with our wives, So the four 820 00:42:13,160 --> 00:42:14,839 Speaker 1: of us, and so that's the kind of thing that 821 00:42:15,239 --> 00:42:17,799 Speaker 1: we can you know, they're they're these tent poles that 822 00:42:17,880 --> 00:42:21,000 Speaker 1: helps to sustain this, uh, this friendship that we have 823 00:42:21,120 --> 00:42:23,520 Speaker 1: with with each other. And uh, yeah, I don't know. 824 00:42:23,640 --> 00:42:26,360 Speaker 1: We we really enjoyed reading through your book looking at 825 00:42:26,400 --> 00:42:28,399 Speaker 1: some of these different things, some that we're not doing 826 00:42:28,440 --> 00:42:31,000 Speaker 1: so well, but some that we are think are realizing 827 00:42:31,120 --> 00:42:34,279 Speaker 1: are important. But to have them listed out and to 828 00:42:34,400 --> 00:42:37,080 Speaker 1: have the data there to support those habits I think 829 00:42:37,160 --> 00:42:40,600 Speaker 1: was incredibly encouraging, uh, if not challenging as at the 830 00:42:40,640 --> 00:42:43,160 Speaker 1: same time. So, West, this is you know, we've really 831 00:42:43,239 --> 00:42:46,000 Speaker 1: enjoyed talking with you, hearing about your book, learning about 832 00:42:46,280 --> 00:42:48,919 Speaker 1: some of your backstory. Where can folks learn more about you? 833 00:42:49,520 --> 00:42:53,400 Speaker 1: So everything at Westmoss dot com. The book What the 834 00:42:53,400 --> 00:42:56,239 Speaker 1: Happiest Retirees Now is right on there. Of course Amazon 835 00:42:56,480 --> 00:42:59,239 Speaker 1: it is. It feels like that's they have won the 836 00:42:59,280 --> 00:43:01,719 Speaker 1: battle and selling books. I heard they're not taking on 837 00:43:01,760 --> 00:43:04,319 Speaker 1: new customers though, so yeah, their work life balance right now, 838 00:43:04,600 --> 00:43:08,840 Speaker 1: the right sizing, I think. Yeah, So just yeah, Westmoss 839 00:43:08,880 --> 00:43:10,879 Speaker 1: dot com and the podcast is on there as well, 840 00:43:11,200 --> 00:43:15,799 Speaker 1: the The Retire Sooner podcast and listen, you guys are 841 00:43:15,840 --> 00:43:20,080 Speaker 1: pros and it's been it's amazing to be on your 842 00:43:20,160 --> 00:43:25,000 Speaker 1: podcast on HTM and um, I really appreciate your your 843 00:43:25,040 --> 00:43:28,480 Speaker 1: your support. West dude. It's always a pleasure and we 844 00:43:28,560 --> 00:43:31,640 Speaker 1: really appreciate you stopping by. Thanks again, all right, Matt. 845 00:43:31,640 --> 00:43:35,120 Speaker 1: Always good to have an actual friend come on the podcast. 846 00:43:35,160 --> 00:43:37,360 Speaker 1: I've had a few recently, so we have Actually we 847 00:43:37,400 --> 00:43:40,000 Speaker 1: need a branch out a little bit. But why branch 848 00:43:40,040 --> 00:43:43,080 Speaker 1: out when our friends are freaking bringing the heat? Uh? 849 00:43:43,200 --> 00:43:46,160 Speaker 1: When when they're so brilliant. Yes, yeah, exactly. So yeah, 850 00:43:46,160 --> 00:43:48,360 Speaker 1: what was your big takeaway from that combo? So? Okay, 851 00:43:48,560 --> 00:43:51,600 Speaker 1: we you know so early on, so I mean, let's 852 00:43:51,600 --> 00:43:53,160 Speaker 1: be honest. One of the concerns that you and I had, 853 00:43:53,440 --> 00:43:56,680 Speaker 1: uh specifically about this episode was you know, maybe including 854 00:43:56,719 --> 00:44:00,560 Speaker 1: the word retire or you know, the word retirees. And 855 00:44:00,640 --> 00:44:03,000 Speaker 1: what we realize though after reading Less's book, was that 856 00:44:03,239 --> 00:44:05,520 Speaker 1: this is something that all people need to be thinking, 857 00:44:05,640 --> 00:44:07,799 Speaker 1: you know, to start thinking through. And you could even 858 00:44:07,880 --> 00:44:10,520 Speaker 1: argue and make the point that it's even more important 859 00:44:10,560 --> 00:44:13,400 Speaker 1: to start getting these things figured out when you're younger, 860 00:44:13,480 --> 00:44:15,879 Speaker 1: when you are in your twenties, even though most twenty 861 00:44:15,920 --> 00:44:19,080 Speaker 1: year olds probably aren't thinking about retirement, like that's for 862 00:44:19,239 --> 00:44:21,920 Speaker 1: you know, boomers and Gen xers or whatever. But just 863 00:44:22,000 --> 00:44:24,279 Speaker 1: like with our money, how it's important to start, you know, 864 00:44:24,320 --> 00:44:27,399 Speaker 1: basically to get started sooner. It's important to get started 865 00:44:27,440 --> 00:44:30,000 Speaker 1: sooner when it comes to these other habits that don't 866 00:44:30,040 --> 00:44:32,920 Speaker 1: necessarily pertain to money as well. I love what he 867 00:44:32,960 --> 00:44:35,160 Speaker 1: said that you can't just flip a switch when you know, 868 00:44:35,200 --> 00:44:37,600 Speaker 1: you can't just like grind it out like crazy until 869 00:44:37,640 --> 00:44:40,000 Speaker 1: you're fifty nine and a half flip a switch and say, 870 00:44:40,000 --> 00:44:42,799 Speaker 1: all right, friends, come out of the woodwork, like it's 871 00:44:42,840 --> 00:44:45,799 Speaker 1: it's time to exactly time of you know, pick up 872 00:44:46,000 --> 00:44:50,360 Speaker 1: three point six corporate suits or whatever. Uh, it doesn't 873 00:44:50,440 --> 00:44:52,840 Speaker 1: work like that. They have to have be developing along 874 00:44:52,840 --> 00:44:55,279 Speaker 1: the way exactly. And so I am so glad that 875 00:44:55,280 --> 00:44:57,640 Speaker 1: we have this conversation with West because this is something 876 00:44:57,680 --> 00:44:59,839 Speaker 1: that is incredibly important. It just goes to show that 877 00:45:00,080 --> 00:45:02,120 Speaker 1: money it's not going to solve all of your problems. 878 00:45:02,160 --> 00:45:03,640 Speaker 1: There are a lot of other things that we need 879 00:45:03,680 --> 00:45:08,120 Speaker 1: to be doing that oftentimes certainly include money, but oftentimes 880 00:45:08,280 --> 00:45:11,080 Speaker 1: exists outside of the realm of finance. And so here 881 00:45:11,120 --> 00:45:12,880 Speaker 1: on How the Money, Right, we talked about money, but 882 00:45:13,040 --> 00:45:14,600 Speaker 1: it is it is good to talk about some of 883 00:45:14,600 --> 00:45:18,040 Speaker 1: these additional habits that we all need to start incorporating. Yeah, 884 00:45:18,040 --> 00:45:20,279 Speaker 1: and I mean, I think there's so many big takeaways 885 00:45:20,280 --> 00:45:21,759 Speaker 1: from this that that I can mention. And of course 886 00:45:21,760 --> 00:45:23,319 Speaker 1: anybody who's listening to How the Money for a long 887 00:45:23,320 --> 00:45:25,520 Speaker 1: period of time, no that like this is exactly off 888 00:45:25,560 --> 00:45:28,359 Speaker 1: our alley. Like we it's funny. Money is in our name. 889 00:45:28,400 --> 00:45:30,959 Speaker 1: It's a core thing that we talk about. But money 890 00:45:31,000 --> 00:45:33,080 Speaker 1: isn't the only thing that affects how happy we are, 891 00:45:33,120 --> 00:45:35,239 Speaker 1: and we have to take these other things into consideration. 892 00:45:35,320 --> 00:45:36,920 Speaker 1: What was your big takeaway? Well, I love the way 893 00:45:36,960 --> 00:45:39,239 Speaker 1: he talked about it as an old family recipe. You 894 00:45:39,239 --> 00:45:40,520 Speaker 1: gotta have some of the egret on. All of them 895 00:45:40,560 --> 00:45:42,520 Speaker 1: are like your analogy to the stew, and it's better 896 00:45:42,600 --> 00:45:44,279 Speaker 1: like that instead of baking more like a stew. It's 897 00:45:44,320 --> 00:45:46,879 Speaker 1: not bacon. But I think my big takeaway was when 898 00:45:46,960 --> 00:45:50,359 Speaker 1: West said curiosity is the magic elixir, and I thought 899 00:45:50,360 --> 00:45:51,680 Speaker 1: it was a good call for all of us to 900 00:45:51,719 --> 00:45:55,399 Speaker 1: get a little more curious and to start developing things. 901 00:45:55,680 --> 00:45:57,279 Speaker 1: It's easy to put it off, and I know I 902 00:45:57,520 --> 00:46:00,560 Speaker 1: mentioned even having like three young kids, it's harder for 903 00:46:00,600 --> 00:46:02,280 Speaker 1: me to get out there and do the things that 904 00:46:02,280 --> 00:46:04,440 Speaker 1: that I want to. Some of those core pursuits that 905 00:46:04,480 --> 00:46:06,000 Speaker 1: are still a part of who I am, but I'm 906 00:46:06,000 --> 00:46:08,879 Speaker 1: not partaking in them as frequently as as I used 907 00:46:08,880 --> 00:46:11,360 Speaker 1: to when I was younger. But they're still important to 908 00:46:11,440 --> 00:46:14,400 Speaker 1: keep around and then to develop maybe a new curiosity 909 00:46:14,480 --> 00:46:17,200 Speaker 1: and kind of get a new fascination with something else. 910 00:46:17,440 --> 00:46:20,759 Speaker 1: I think like, yeah, if you haven't developed those curiosities 911 00:46:20,760 --> 00:46:23,359 Speaker 1: and and some of those passions along the way, you're 912 00:46:23,400 --> 00:46:26,080 Speaker 1: gonna find yourself later on down the road, like what 913 00:46:26,200 --> 00:46:27,399 Speaker 1: is it I want to do with my new found 914 00:46:27,600 --> 00:46:29,600 Speaker 1: freedom now that I don't have work, And so yeah, 915 00:46:29,640 --> 00:46:33,200 Speaker 1: it is important to be exploring, getting curious, trying new 916 00:46:33,239 --> 00:46:35,000 Speaker 1: stuff along the way to see what sticks, to see 917 00:46:35,040 --> 00:46:37,239 Speaker 1: what you're actually interested. Like I remember, Matt, you and 918 00:46:37,239 --> 00:46:40,640 Speaker 1: I went fly fishing one time and it didn't stick 919 00:46:40,640 --> 00:46:43,600 Speaker 1: for me, like I knew and you know either, Like 920 00:46:43,600 --> 00:46:45,279 Speaker 1: one of my favorite movies in the world is a 921 00:46:45,360 --> 00:46:48,359 Speaker 1: river runs through it. I was imagining it's a good one. 922 00:46:48,440 --> 00:46:50,960 Speaker 1: How was the matching myself? Like flying down the River? 923 00:46:51,080 --> 00:46:55,920 Speaker 1: It was casting shadow in Montana and it wasn't anything 924 00:46:55,960 --> 00:46:58,160 Speaker 1: like that in at least in Georgia. But like what 925 00:46:58,239 --> 00:47:01,279 Speaker 1: I tried again, Sure, but you have to be able 926 00:47:01,320 --> 00:47:03,600 Speaker 1: to willing, able and willing to try some of those 927 00:47:03,600 --> 00:47:06,040 Speaker 1: things to kind of see what it is that's gonna 928 00:47:06,080 --> 00:47:08,359 Speaker 1: light you up. And I think there's really important things 929 00:47:08,400 --> 00:47:10,680 Speaker 1: and so yeah, I like that. This conversation was money 930 00:47:11,000 --> 00:47:13,600 Speaker 1: specific in some ways, but also went way beyond that 931 00:47:13,640 --> 00:47:15,920 Speaker 1: with the world just money absolutely, man, Let's go ahead 932 00:47:15,920 --> 00:47:17,719 Speaker 1: and mention the beer that you and I enjoyed on 933 00:47:17,719 --> 00:47:20,600 Speaker 1: this episode. Uh, this one was by upright brewing, and 934 00:47:20,640 --> 00:47:23,640 Speaker 1: it's called Fantasia, and it says on the label right 935 00:47:23,640 --> 00:47:26,719 Speaker 1: here that it's a barrel aged beer with peaches, So, yeah, 936 00:47:26,760 --> 00:47:28,279 Speaker 1: what do you think about this one? All right? So 937 00:47:28,480 --> 00:47:31,160 Speaker 1: this one was like effervescent and peach. He was like 938 00:47:31,239 --> 00:47:34,880 Speaker 1: light and bubbly, and the peach flavors really came through nicely. 939 00:47:35,280 --> 00:47:37,400 Speaker 1: So this is funny. It's funny, like most of the 940 00:47:37,400 --> 00:47:39,520 Speaker 1: beers usually, I'm trying to pay attention to the tasting notes. 941 00:47:39,719 --> 00:47:41,560 Speaker 1: I was so engrossed to this conversation I didn't even 942 00:47:41,560 --> 00:47:44,120 Speaker 1: write anything, like even one word down to describe it. 943 00:47:44,160 --> 00:47:47,759 Speaker 1: But I think, yeah, it was it was delicious, it 944 00:47:47,800 --> 00:47:51,160 Speaker 1: was light, it was flavorful, and um really, even though 945 00:47:51,160 --> 00:47:53,200 Speaker 1: we're in fault, it's like like a perfect summer Bevierly, 946 00:47:53,200 --> 00:47:54,520 Speaker 1: it's a good fall of beer too. Yeah, it's got 947 00:47:54,560 --> 00:47:56,240 Speaker 1: the peaches going on. And so this is a brewery 948 00:47:56,280 --> 00:47:58,520 Speaker 1: that's out of Portland, Oregon, and we get a lot 949 00:47:58,560 --> 00:48:00,759 Speaker 1: of great peaches down here. It's definitely felt like it 950 00:48:00,800 --> 00:48:03,400 Speaker 1: was a closer to home beer than across the country. 951 00:48:03,560 --> 00:48:05,320 Speaker 1: But yeah, it had a little bit of that funkiness 952 00:48:05,360 --> 00:48:07,640 Speaker 1: going on with it being barrel aged. Maybe you had 953 00:48:07,680 --> 00:48:10,520 Speaker 1: a little bit of those bretty Sayson notes um, and 954 00:48:10,680 --> 00:48:13,319 Speaker 1: it wasn't too acidic. So oftentimes you get some of 955 00:48:13,320 --> 00:48:16,560 Speaker 1: those specific Northwest barrel aged showers and they're just like 956 00:48:16,680 --> 00:48:20,320 Speaker 1: punch you in the mouth acidic and part incredibly sour, 957 00:48:20,520 --> 00:48:23,600 Speaker 1: whereas this one wasn't. It wasn't overly acidic and sour, 958 00:48:23,640 --> 00:48:25,960 Speaker 1: and it also wasn't overly sweet either. It was just 959 00:48:26,040 --> 00:48:28,960 Speaker 1: a nice, very delicious, easy to drink beer. Glad that 960 00:48:29,000 --> 00:48:30,520 Speaker 1: you and I got to enjoy this one today on 961 00:48:30,560 --> 00:48:33,200 Speaker 1: the show. Yeah, I'd say this one was like simultaneously 962 00:48:33,520 --> 00:48:36,799 Speaker 1: refined but also laid back. That's true, maybe how West 963 00:48:36,840 --> 00:48:39,600 Speaker 1: Moss would like to describe himself fine, but at the 964 00:48:39,600 --> 00:48:41,880 Speaker 1: same time not overly into it. You know what that 965 00:48:41,960 --> 00:48:44,920 Speaker 1: might be how I describe him sometime. We chose the 966 00:48:44,920 --> 00:48:48,000 Speaker 1: perfect beer for this episode, so that's gonna be it 967 00:48:48,040 --> 00:48:49,840 Speaker 1: for this episode. Well. Of course, make sure to have 968 00:48:49,880 --> 00:48:51,719 Speaker 1: our show notes up on the website at how the 969 00:48:51,760 --> 00:48:53,520 Speaker 1: money dot com will have links to his site his 970 00:48:53,600 --> 00:48:56,320 Speaker 1: book where you can pick up his recently published book. 971 00:48:56,560 --> 00:48:58,400 Speaker 1: And Joel, I think that's gonna be it for this episode. 972 00:48:58,440 --> 00:49:01,439 Speaker 1: Due until next time, Best Friends Out, Best Friends Out,