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Speaker 1: I'm Kate Winkler Dawson.

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Speaker 2: I'm a journalist who's spent the last twenty five years

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Speaker 2: writing about true crime.

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Speaker 3: And I'm Paul Hols, a retired cold case investigator who's

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Speaker 3: works some of America's most complicated cases and solve them.

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Speaker 2: Each week, I present Paul with one of history's most

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Speaker 2: compelling true crimes.

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Speaker 3: And I weigh in using modern forensic techniques to bring

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Speaker 3: new insights to old mysteries.

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Speaker 2: Together, using our individual expertise, we're examining historical true crime

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Speaker 2: cases through a twenty first century lens.

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Speaker 4: Some are solved and some are cold, very cold.

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Speaker 1: This is buried bones.

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Speaker 4: Hey Kate, how's it going?

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Speaker 1: Hey Paul, it's going great. How about with you?

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Speaker 4: I'm doing well.

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Speaker 3: You've got my afternoon coffee here, and I'm going to

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Speaker 3: try to get through with the little extra dosa caffeine.

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Speaker 1: I was wondering what you were drinking. It's always a

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Speaker 1: mystery to me.

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Speaker 2: I don't like talking about bourbon, whiskey or whatever you

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Speaker 2: call it all that often, but sometimes I kind of

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Speaker 2: think it's a mystery cup of something. So it's either

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Speaker 2: coffee or kava or some sort of whiskey bourbon concoction.

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Speaker 4: You've got it. Those are the three that might be

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Speaker 4: in this cup.

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Speaker 1: So the giddier you get, the more I can guess.

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Speaker 4: That's right.

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Speaker 1: We should do a pole.

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Speaker 2: We'll do a poll sometime. What is Paul drinking? We've

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Speaker 2: talked about cases, these cases before.

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Speaker 1: I get a lot of.

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Speaker 2: Emails from people saying where do you find this story?

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Speaker 2: And I find these stories through so many different sources.

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Speaker 2: One of my favorite authors is Eric Larson, and he

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Speaker 2: calls himself a promiscuous reader, which means he reads every things.

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Speaker 2: And that's the way I am a promiscuous reader. But

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Speaker 2: one of the places that I love is called Murder

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Speaker 2: by Gaslight, and I know a lot of true crime

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Speaker 2: fans know about that site. And you know, the person

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Speaker 2: who curates that comes up with these articles of these

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Speaker 2: blog posts. It's really excellent. And he'll leave behind the sources,

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Speaker 2: which is what you should do. And then I will

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Speaker 2: find a case every once in a while that I

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Speaker 2: think is a really worthy case, and I'll send it

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Speaker 2: to our researcher, Marin, and she'll add on and find

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Speaker 2: all these new sources and everything. But I want to

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Speaker 2: give a shout out to Murder by Gaslight because it

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Speaker 2: is a really great blog, and every time I have

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Speaker 2: a case that I get from there that I think

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Speaker 2: is just an outstanding story, then I want to give

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Speaker 2: them plenty of credit because it's not easy finding these cases,

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Speaker 2: and a lot of times it's me googling murder in

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Speaker 2: the eighteen hundreds, which is sort of now now that

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Speaker 2: I say it, allowed a little embarrassing to admit. But

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Speaker 2: I have to find these stories from somewhere. It's a

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Speaker 2: hard ask because there need to be forensics, there needs

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Speaker 2: to be mystery, it needs to be in a really

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Speaker 2: great time period that I'm familiar with too. I need

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Speaker 2: to be able to bring something to the table. So

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Speaker 2: Murder by Gaslight is an excellent source for me.

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Speaker 4: I haven't heard of it, but that's great that that's

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Speaker 4: out there. You know.

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Speaker 3: For me what working cold cases, particularly the Golden State

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Speaker 3: Killer case, I would spend my fair share of time

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Speaker 3: in the library going through the microfiche of old newspapers

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Speaker 3: and it was amazing. You know, some of the cases

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Speaker 3: I would just inadvertently run across. I mean, these are

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Speaker 3: newspapers from the sixties and seventies that I'm looking at.

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Speaker 3: But I know that type of stuff exists way back when.

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Speaker 3: I'm sure there's people that are diving into these old newspapers,

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Speaker 3: probably even go to newspapers dot com the archives in

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Speaker 3: there and find some really crazy cases you can.

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Speaker 2: And I love how you've never heard of most of

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Speaker 2: these cases. I'll throw in one everyone while Jeffrey McDonald

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Speaker 2: or the Lindberg baby stuff that you've known. But even

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Speaker 2: with those cases, sometimes it's like you sort of know

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Speaker 2: the case, but not really. The story that I'm going

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Speaker 2: to talk to you about today is in eighteen nineties Lincoln, Nebraska,

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Speaker 2: and it's an example of a story that we researched

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Speaker 2: a lot. There's a lot of information, but just if

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Speaker 2: you were going to dig into it just as a

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Speaker 2: lay person, I think it would be a challenge because

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Speaker 2: it really a lot of it has to come from newspapers,

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Speaker 2: and the newspapers and the eighteen hundreds were notoriously inaccurate.

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Speaker 2: But some of the best stories out there are the

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Speaker 2: ones that people have no idea about. And I get

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Speaker 2: so tired of the same stories over and over again

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Speaker 2: from the last twenty years. I like something that's fresh

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Speaker 2: yet very old. I told a friend of mine the

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Speaker 2: other day the dead or the better not our catchphrase necessarily,

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Speaker 2: but that is how I feel. I love the older,

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Speaker 2: the better, the dead or the better for me. So well,

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Speaker 2: let's take a trip to Lincoln, Nebraska in the eighteen nineties.

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Speaker 2: So let me start by setting the scene. So Lincoln

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Speaker 2: in eighteen nineties was a rural place, very safe. Murder

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Speaker 2: was incredibly rare there, but lawlessness not so much. The

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Speaker 2: victim in this story is a man named John Sheety, and.

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Speaker 1: Boy does he have a past.

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Speaker 2: He is not a sympathetic victim in any way whatsoever.

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Speaker 2: He sounds like a pretty unpleasant person. But as we know,

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Speaker 2: just because you're an unpleasant person doesn't mean that your

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Speaker 2: case should not be investigated.

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Speaker 1: Is there a case that you could think of where

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Speaker 1: the victim.

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Speaker 2: Might not have been someone you had a lot of

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Speaker 2: empathy for, but you just had to do it.

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Speaker 1: You just have to investigate the case.

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Speaker 3: There's actually many of those types of cases, Yeah, I imagine,

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Speaker 3: because oftentimes individuals make life decisions that cause him to

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Speaker 3: become victims. And you know, most of the types of

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Speaker 3: homicide cases that I was involved with involved people that

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Speaker 3: were active criminals and they themselves shot and people who

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Speaker 3: knew the decease going, well, he's responsible for five homicides himself. Obviously.

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Speaker 3: It's just one of those things where it's like, yes,

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Speaker 3: you know, you don't have a lot of empathy, but

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Speaker 3: you still do your job. But I know, like for me,

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Speaker 3: I always went after the cases that I had personal

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Speaker 3: empathy for the victims, you know, the true innocent victims.

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Speaker 3: You know, that's that's who I felt that I needed

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Speaker 3: to champion their cause versus, you know, maybe doing more

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Speaker 3: of the public safety route and going after the you know,

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Speaker 3: the gun violence type cases.

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Speaker 2: And you know, it's so difficult about these types of

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Speaker 2: stories is when you have someone like a John Sheety

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Speaker 2: who is in the middle of some organized crime in

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Speaker 2: the eighteen nineties in Nebraska, you've automatically opened up your

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Speaker 2: suspect pool largely because you've got someone who is in

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Speaker 2: it at risk lifestyle. And I don't want to jump

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Speaker 2: into it too much yet. I want to talk more

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Speaker 2: about the forensics and what happens first, and then we

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Speaker 2: can talk about the lifestyle because that's when we'll start

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Speaker 2: talking about suspect.

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Speaker 4: Does that work for you, That works for me?

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Speaker 1: Okay?

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Speaker 2: Lincoln, Nebraska, January eleventh, must be colder than hell. I

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Speaker 2: can't imagine that this under any circumstances. This is a

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Speaker 2: ball made January, So I'm going to go with this

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Speaker 2: was probably a cold January.

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Speaker 3: Night, Yes, and so that would tell me that chances

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Speaker 3: are the players in this particular case are dressed with

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Speaker 3: multiple layers of clothing, heavier clothing, et cetera.

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Speaker 1: Yep, Okay, And.

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Speaker 2: This is a case of it is a determination of

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Speaker 2: who killed him using what weapon, And that's where this

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Speaker 2: case to me, is so fascinating. Around seven point thirty

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Speaker 2: on January eleventh, eighteen ninety one, John Sheety was heading

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Speaker 2: towards a casino he owned, which was just a few

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Speaker 2: blocks away from his house.

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Speaker 1: John Sheety, he's a casino owner.

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Speaker 2: Who is involved in a lot of back deal stuff,

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Speaker 2: not good stuff, and this automatically puts him at risk

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Speaker 2: for any type of crime, but this seems pretty personal.

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Speaker 2: Shortly after he exited his front door, there's a man

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Speaker 2: who appears out of nowhere and violently assaults him with

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Speaker 2: this is a nineteenth century weapon. Here violently assaulted him

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Speaker 2: with a steel cane wrapped in leather. And I have

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Speaker 2: a picture, Okay, it's the only picture we have with

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Speaker 2: this case. So my research was that with these steel

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Speaker 2: canes that were wrapped in leather, if they were expensive,

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Speaker 2: the leather was part of the fashion. You could get

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Speaker 2: a really expensive leather wrapped cane, or if it was

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Speaker 2: a cheap cane like the one in this case, was

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Speaker 2: it was for grip. Okay, and it's very heavy and

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Speaker 2: it's for protection. John Sheety is beaten with this type

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Speaker 2: of cane, very heavy steel cane with a really strong grip.

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Speaker 4: Being solid steel. For something that is this length and diameter,

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Speaker 4: it looks like the diameter I would say, like a

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Speaker 4: typical cane that is used today made out of let's

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Speaker 4: say wood or aluminum, has a diameter like three quarters

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Speaker 4: inch is my guess, three quarters to an inch. Imagine

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Speaker 4: that being solid steel, this weapon has a lot of mass.

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Speaker 4: So that informs me a lot in terms of the

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Speaker 4: potential for the.

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Speaker 1: Types of wounds, a lot of damage.

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Speaker 3: Yes, absolutely, this is something that could easily crush a skull, fracture,

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Speaker 3: you know, the facial bones. If the victim is putting

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Speaker 3: up his arms in defense, it probably could break his arms.

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Speaker 3: Of course, coming out of law enforcement, you know, during

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Speaker 3: the academy, I never carried a baton, but I got

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Speaker 3: experience and training on the use of these batons, which

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Speaker 3: are much shorter, less mass. But the amount of damage

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Speaker 3: that baton can do is significant, and this is several

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Speaker 3: magnitudes greater.

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Speaker 1: Isn't it unwieldy? Though?

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Speaker 2: Would a cane like this be a little because it's

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Speaker 2: so heavy, Would it be a little hard to control?

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Speaker 3: Well, any time you have a weapon that has length,

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Speaker 3: such as a baseball bat, a standard sized baseball bat,

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Speaker 3: the weakness of that weapon is its length, because the

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Speaker 3: offender has to be at a certain distance away from

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Speaker 3: the victim in order to be able to inflict successful blows.

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Speaker 3: And the best defense against somebody who has that type

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Speaker 3: of weapon, whether it be a cane, a baseball bat,

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Speaker 3: something similar an axe, is to get close to the offender.

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Speaker 4: Then that weapon is neutralized. But at a distance it

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Speaker 4: can cause a tremendous amount of damage.

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Speaker 2: Well, let me tell you the kind of damage it caused.

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Speaker 2: He was struck several times on the side of the head,

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Speaker 2: several fractures in the bones on his face, none of which,

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Speaker 2: this is what the coroner said, none of which went

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Speaker 2: through the skull, and he was struck above his left

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Speaker 2: eye and upper jaw. That just seems like a large

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Speaker 2: amount of damage. But they're saying that it didn't cave

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Speaker 2: in his skull. Is that what you're reading from this?

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Speaker 3: That's what I'm hearing. But obviously this is that autopsy.

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Speaker 3: So there was some fatal something killed him. If it

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Speaker 3: wasn't these these injuries.

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Speaker 2: Something did, but we're not talking about that yet. And

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Speaker 2: that is the debate about this case.

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Speaker 1: What killed him?

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Speaker 2: And this seems pretty straightforward, but it's not so when

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Speaker 2: you hear this, When you hear these notes, several fractures

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Speaker 2: in the bones on his face, but none of which

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Speaker 2: went through the skull. Is it possible he survived this well.

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Speaker 4: Based on those descriptions.

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Speaker 3: Yes, if you have crushing injuries to the face, that's

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Speaker 3: not going to necessarily translate into fatal injuries. We're not

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Speaker 3: having the brain impacted. You know that the cranium itself

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Speaker 3: is not being compromised. We have individuals who attempt suicide

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Speaker 3: and blow half their face off and they survive, they

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Speaker 3: remain conscious, you know, so that is a not technically

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Speaker 3: it's a non fatal area. But he did have some

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Speaker 3: blows to his skull. But the pathologist is saying those

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Speaker 3: were not fatal blows.

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Speaker 1: No, so let me tell you this.

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Speaker 2: However hard these hits were, it did not stop John

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Speaker 2: Sheety from pulling a gun and firing at the guy.

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Speaker 2: As the guy's running away. He gets away, John Sheety

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Speaker 2: can't identify him. He is laying on the ground at

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Speaker 2: this point. The man leaves behind the cane, which is

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Speaker 2: how we know that it's a steel cane wrapped in leather.

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Speaker 1: When Sheety's wife, whose.

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Speaker 2: Name was Mary Sheety, came out, she helped him inside

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Speaker 2: the house, so he was obviously on his feet. She

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Speaker 2: calls for the doctor and the police. The doctors come

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Speaker 2: and give him a medicine that we're going to talk

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Speaker 2: about it in a second, and then they leave.

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Speaker 1: They don't think this is going to be fatal. They

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Speaker 1: think he's fine.

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Speaker 2: They give him three doses of sulfonal of ten grains,

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Speaker 2: which just as a cursorysearch for me, it seemed like

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Speaker 2: it was a sedative.

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Speaker 1: Did you find anything? This was your homework assignment.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, I looked it up. It is a sedative.

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Speaker 3: Seems to have nar cotic like properties. I thought I

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Speaker 3: saw it as being a Schedule three drug.

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Speaker 2: Is that like a morphine or now is that something

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Speaker 2: that would be they prescribed it so right.

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Speaker 3: Well, and that's the interesting thing is that it appears

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Speaker 3: that back in the eighteen hundreds it was a drug

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Speaker 3: that was being experimented with a lot due to its

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Speaker 3: sedative and painkilling actions. But it does not appear to

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Speaker 3: be something that is in high use today. But it

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Speaker 3: is listed as a controlled substance. But surprisingly I found

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Speaker 3: very little about this drug. Also, I don't know a

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Speaker 3: lot of details on it, how it would be administered,

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Speaker 3: even its chemical properties right now, but it is something

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Speaker 3: that was in play back at the time of this case.

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Speaker 2: I read it as something also that was used as

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Speaker 2: a hypnotic.

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Speaker 1: I'm not even really sure what that means.

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Speaker 3: Well, the hypnotics, you know, that is a class of

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Speaker 3: drugs that that just alters the sensory perceptions of the

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Speaker 3: person that is taking the drug. Now, hypnotics can have

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Speaker 3: other actions within the body, such as being you know,

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Speaker 3: a sedative. Some sedatives provide hypnotic type effects and some don't.

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Speaker 2: Well, nobody is that concerned about this, which is surprising.

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Speaker 2: He's got head injuries. John doesn't go to the hospital.

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Speaker 2: The police leave, They say we'll find the suspect. We

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Speaker 2: hope the doctors leave after giving him a little bit

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Speaker 2: of this sedative. Mary, his wife, fixes him a cup

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Speaker 2: of coffee. They are up and talking. They go to bed,

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Speaker 2: and around four o'clock in the morning the next day

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Speaker 2: she found John completely paralyzed, and then he soon fell

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Speaker 2: into a coma and by ten o'clock that night he

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Speaker 2: was dead.

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Speaker 3: Okay, different things are going through my head. You know,

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Speaker 3: he has suffered trauma to his head. There could be

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Speaker 3: delayed effects from that trauma that may have contributed to

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Speaker 3: his death for sure. Then of course it's what the

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Speaker 3: doctors are administering to him. I mean, these are drugs

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Speaker 3: from the late eighteen hundreds, and so imagine the quality

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Speaker 3: of these drugs and how much they're giving him. Is

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Speaker 3: it possible that he was given too much of this sulfonol?

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Speaker 3: Is it possible it wasn't even sulfonol to begin with? Yeah,

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Speaker 3: yeto it was a counterfeit. Did he have a bad

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Speaker 3: reaction to this drug, you know, an allergic reaction. Maybe

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Speaker 3: there's some dili wentz or something else in this drug

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Speaker 3: that he just did not tolerate well. So there's so

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Speaker 3: many things that are going on here at this point.

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Speaker 2: Well, let's talk about victimology. We'll talk about the victim first,

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Speaker 2: John Sheety. He was the owner of a casino. It

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Speaker 2: was an illegal casino. He was also a real estate developer,

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Speaker 2: and it seems like he had as many friends as

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Speaker 2: he had enemies. He had the mayor of Lincoln come

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Speaker 2: to his casino regularly, but he also had quite a

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Speaker 2: few law fighting citizens who detested this casino that he ran,

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Speaker 2: as well as other casino owners.

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Speaker 1: So there are a lot of people out there.

301
00:16:09,400 --> 00:16:11,720
Speaker 2: Who would have been happy to have him dead. He

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00:16:11,840 --> 00:16:15,440
Speaker 2: had a monopoly over the scene. I mean, everybody came

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Speaker 2: to this man's casino, and he was a bit of

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Speaker 2: a jerk. He intimidated people, He bribed the police, and

305
00:16:22,800 --> 00:16:24,479
Speaker 2: so there are a lot of suspects.

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Speaker 1: We don't have a description.

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Speaker 2: John Sheety can't describe who his offender was, so the

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00:16:30,400 --> 00:16:33,280
Speaker 2: police are at wits end at this point trying to

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Speaker 2: figure out what happened in a very high profile murder.

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Speaker 3: I assume something wrong that John Sheety was maybe a

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00:16:41,120 --> 00:16:43,680
Speaker 3: low life in the area, but it sounds like he

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00:16:43,800 --> 00:16:45,280
Speaker 3: has some financial status.

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Speaker 1: He does, but in a bad way. He screws people over,

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Speaker 1: is what it sounds like.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, so there's money behind his name, and then of

316
00:16:53,680 --> 00:16:57,440
Speaker 3: course he's involved in this controversial casino and he treats

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Speaker 3: people poorly.

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Speaker 2: And one of those people that he treated poorly with

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00:17:01,120 --> 00:17:05,000
Speaker 2: his wife, unfortunately. So let's add a few more suspects

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Speaker 2: in the men in Mary's life.

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Speaker 1: So John Sheedy met Mary in the eighteen eighties.

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Speaker 2: He was living in a hotel and she was employed

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Speaker 2: as a housekeeper. She had already been married twice. Her

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Speaker 2: first marriage was to a man who went to prison

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Speaker 2: and was currently in prison, so he is not someone

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Speaker 2: who would have been considered a suspect. But her second

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Speaker 2: marriage was to a man named George Merrill, and you

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Speaker 2: know they had once been big fixtures in the gambling

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Speaker 2: holes in Lincoln, Nebraska. Also, Meryll dumped her because he

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Speaker 2: believed she was cheating and likely cheating with John Sheety

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Speaker 2: on him. He kicked her out of the house and

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Speaker 2: then she hooked up with John Sheety. So you have

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Speaker 2: this man, George who kicked out Mary, but their divorce

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Speaker 2: was finalized nine years before this happened. I was just

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Speaker 2: looking for suspects in general. Is there like an expiration

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00:18:01,000 --> 00:18:04,399
Speaker 2: date for anger over divorced. Nine years seems like a

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00:18:04,400 --> 00:18:05,760
Speaker 2: long time to hold a grudge.

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Speaker 3: No, you know, I wouldn't say there's an expiration date, However,

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00:18:10,640 --> 00:18:15,920
Speaker 3: noting the amount of time is significant. Often if you're

340
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Speaker 3: looking at the crime being committed as a result of

341
00:18:18,880 --> 00:18:24,000
Speaker 3: let's say this love triangle, the emotions are the highest

342
00:18:24,240 --> 00:18:28,400
Speaker 3: when this whole relationship is dissolving, and that's often when

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00:18:28,400 --> 00:18:33,320
Speaker 3: you see the violence occurring. Now you've got an essence

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Speaker 3: a cooling off period. So for this George character, because

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Speaker 3: of this love triangle between his wife and maybe with

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Speaker 3: Sheety to come and now take Sheety out, I would

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Speaker 3: suspect that maybe something reinitiated the emotions, a recent interaction

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Speaker 3: between George and Mary, or between him and Sheety, or

349
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Speaker 3: something that is going to cause that to flare up again.

350
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Speaker 3: Not necessarily, but that's what I would be looking for

351
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Speaker 3: in interviewing Mary, interviewing George. What has gone on recently

352
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Speaker 3: between you two as well as independently within their various

353
00:19:14,200 --> 00:19:18,520
Speaker 3: social circles that may have touched George off and brought

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Speaker 3: up the emotions from nine years prior.

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Speaker 2: Okay, let's leave George Merrill on the back burner because

356
00:19:24,080 --> 00:19:27,480
Speaker 2: there is a more recent man than nine years. Mary

357
00:19:27,880 --> 00:19:33,680
Speaker 2: began having an affair after about eighteen ninety. She and

358
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Speaker 2: John Sheety had been married for five years. It was

359
00:19:36,720 --> 00:19:40,719
Speaker 2: not a happy marriage. It sounded like he was abusive,

360
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Speaker 2: and in eighteen ninety she met a traveling salesman named

361
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Speaker 2: Harry Woolstrom. So another suspect to add to the list

362
00:19:48,480 --> 00:19:53,399
Speaker 2: for police. They fell in love, and now here's another person.

363
00:19:53,720 --> 00:19:56,040
Speaker 2: So we need to kind of go the same way

364
00:19:56,240 --> 00:19:59,440
Speaker 2: we did with George Merrill, which is where do we stand?

365
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Speaker 2: What's the motive for him to do this? It seems

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Speaker 2: like a clearer motive with Harry than it would be

367
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Speaker 2: with George, I would imagine.

368
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Speaker 4: Well, it's most certainly more contemporaneous.

369
00:20:08,440 --> 00:20:14,119
Speaker 3: Now getting into the circumstances of the attack, remind me,

370
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Speaker 3: where is Sheedy. He's now about to enter his house

371
00:20:18,520 --> 00:20:21,040
Speaker 3: after leaving the casino. Is that where he is attacked?

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Speaker 2: He was heading towards a casino that he owned, which

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Speaker 2: was just a few blocks away from the house, So

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Speaker 2: he was at his front door.

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Speaker 1: He walked out the front door.

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Speaker 3: Okay, so he's attacked immediately as soon as he leaves

377
00:20:31,480 --> 00:20:35,600
Speaker 3: the house. Correct, So somebody is lying in wait and

378
00:20:35,760 --> 00:20:39,760
Speaker 3: understands that Sheedy at what time Sheety is going to

379
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Speaker 3: leave the house?

380
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Speaker 4: Right? Okay, That's what I needed to.

381
00:20:42,600 --> 00:20:46,400
Speaker 3: Know, so that at least gives me some information that

382
00:20:46,760 --> 00:20:50,159
Speaker 3: there has been in all likelihood, unless this was just

383
00:20:50,600 --> 00:20:54,639
Speaker 3: absolute random, psychotic individual who happened to be in the

384
00:20:54,680 --> 00:20:57,879
Speaker 3: area and Sheety just happened to walk out and the

385
00:20:57,920 --> 00:21:01,840
Speaker 3: guy just decided to attack him, Considering the victimology, it's

386
00:21:01,920 --> 00:21:05,720
Speaker 3: more likely that Sheety was targeted. And if he's targeted,

387
00:21:06,080 --> 00:21:09,719
Speaker 3: then now the offender has planned to attack him as

388
00:21:09,720 --> 00:21:13,000
Speaker 3: soon as he Leaves's house and has brought this steel

389
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Speaker 3: cane with him in order to accomplish this attack.

390
00:21:16,400 --> 00:21:19,719
Speaker 2: And one question we'll have moving forward is is it

391
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Speaker 2: likely that somebody from John Sheety's family has tipped off

392
00:21:25,000 --> 00:21:29,160
Speaker 2: whomever the killer is of John Sheety's schedule that night,

393
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Speaker 2: Because I get the impression that the owner of an

394
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Speaker 2: illegal casino probably has an erratic schedule. I'm not sure

395
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Speaker 2: this guy is leaving at seven point thirty every night.

396
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Speaker 4: That would be.

397
00:21:40,119 --> 00:21:44,199
Speaker 3: Part of the investigation and the interviews. Was this the

398
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Speaker 3: normal time that Sheety left the house or was this

399
00:21:47,200 --> 00:21:51,720
Speaker 3: an unusual time? And if it's unusual, then that would

400
00:21:51,800 --> 00:21:56,199
Speaker 3: be informative that the offender likely got information as to

401
00:21:56,359 --> 00:21:59,639
Speaker 3: when Sheedy was going to leave. Now, how would the

402
00:21:59,680 --> 00:22:02,600
Speaker 3: offense get that information? You know, when did she he

403
00:22:02,680 --> 00:22:04,800
Speaker 3: make the decision to go to the casino, you know,

404
00:22:04,880 --> 00:22:08,360
Speaker 3: right before he left, or was this something that he planned,

405
00:22:08,560 --> 00:22:12,359
Speaker 3: you know, to do hours prior. And then it's like, well, okay,

406
00:22:12,640 --> 00:22:15,720
Speaker 3: let's say Mary is the informant, because she's likely it's

407
00:22:15,840 --> 00:22:17,280
Speaker 3: going to be the one person in the house that

408
00:22:17,320 --> 00:22:20,919
Speaker 3: would know. How is she communicating that with somebody on

409
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Speaker 3: the outside.

410
00:22:21,880 --> 00:22:23,719
Speaker 2: Well, you could see how much intrigued there is with

411
00:22:23,760 --> 00:22:27,639
Speaker 2: this case. And because this very powerful, sleazy man in

412
00:22:27,760 --> 00:22:33,040
Speaker 2: Lincoln was murdered, it has caused the media to take

413
00:22:33,119 --> 00:22:37,680
Speaker 2: notice and of course report every salacious detail possible, including

414
00:22:37,960 --> 00:22:42,280
Speaker 2: the relationship between John and Mary, which was acrimonious. The

415
00:22:42,400 --> 00:22:46,560
Speaker 2: coroner's inquest became a problem because it has held the

416
00:22:46,600 --> 00:22:51,520
Speaker 2: morning after he died, and the judge banned all reporters

417
00:22:51,680 --> 00:22:56,720
Speaker 2: and onlookers from the courtroom, which in sensed everybody, of course,

418
00:22:56,760 --> 00:23:00,760
Speaker 2: reporters especially, and it stoked all of these conspiracy theories.

419
00:23:00,920 --> 00:23:03,800
Speaker 2: You know, I'm assuming also that Sheety's family was paying

420
00:23:03,880 --> 00:23:05,879
Speaker 2: jurors off, and you know, everything you could think of.

421
00:23:05,920 --> 00:23:08,639
Speaker 2: It's nice to know that conspiracy theories are not specific

422
00:23:08,720 --> 00:23:12,400
Speaker 2: to just today. Obviously they were happening in the eighteen hundreds. Also,

423
00:23:12,640 --> 00:23:15,000
Speaker 2: people wanted details. It's like any of these cases that

424
00:23:15,040 --> 00:23:17,480
Speaker 2: we talk about now. People wanted details that the police

425
00:23:17,600 --> 00:23:20,480
Speaker 2: were not willing to give out because they're still looking

426
00:23:20,520 --> 00:23:23,160
Speaker 2: for an assailant at this point, and the police are

427
00:23:23,240 --> 00:23:26,879
Speaker 2: allowed to withhold details as maddening as it is to

428
00:23:27,320 --> 00:23:29,960
Speaker 2: you know, people in the public or or the families.

429
00:23:30,640 --> 00:23:34,040
Speaker 2: So the locals began theorizing who might be behind the

430
00:23:34,119 --> 00:23:37,560
Speaker 2: murder because the press found out that John Sheety had

431
00:23:37,600 --> 00:23:42,159
Speaker 2: survived two other assassination attempts, and this comes up for

432
00:23:42,320 --> 00:23:47,920
Speaker 2: you information twofold. One is on his medical condition because

433
00:23:47,920 --> 00:23:50,959
Speaker 2: this plays into it, and two is who is the

434
00:23:51,040 --> 00:23:52,280
Speaker 2: likely person to have done this.

435
00:23:52,960 --> 00:23:55,200
Speaker 1: Let's talk about the circumstances first and.

436
00:23:55,119 --> 00:23:58,280
Speaker 2: Then why it becomes important later, and it's not simply

437
00:23:58,320 --> 00:24:02,040
Speaker 2: who did it. So on Decem ninth, eighteen ninety, so

438
00:24:02,119 --> 00:24:06,440
Speaker 2: this was about a month earlier, an unknown offender tried

439
00:24:06,480 --> 00:24:10,040
Speaker 2: to shoot him but was unsuccessful, so it just missed.

440
00:24:10,440 --> 00:24:14,520
Speaker 2: And then ten days later Sheety was shot again. This

441
00:24:14,640 --> 00:24:17,159
Speaker 2: time it hit him, hit him in the head, but

442
00:24:17,240 --> 00:24:18,359
Speaker 2: it apparently.

443
00:24:17,880 --> 00:24:18,640
Speaker 1: Didn't kill him.

444
00:24:18,880 --> 00:24:21,040
Speaker 2: And the reason that they knew about this was because

445
00:24:21,080 --> 00:24:24,520
Speaker 2: they found the bullet wound during the autopsy and I'm

446
00:24:24,520 --> 00:24:28,040
Speaker 2: assuming Mary told them about it too. Two different attempts

447
00:24:28,680 --> 00:24:32,320
Speaker 2: and the inquest reached the conclusion that Sheety had been

448
00:24:32,440 --> 00:24:36,320
Speaker 2: murdered but had likely died because of internal bleeding, you know,

449
00:24:36,400 --> 00:24:39,320
Speaker 2: from the attacker hitting him on the head. Later on,

450
00:24:39,640 --> 00:24:43,840
Speaker 2: it would become controversial because of the first bullet that

451
00:24:43,960 --> 00:24:46,000
Speaker 2: hit him in the head whether or not that had

452
00:24:46,040 --> 00:24:47,600
Speaker 2: done some damage to begin with.

453
00:24:47,840 --> 00:24:50,800
Speaker 1: It's very confusing. All the autopsy stuff is confusing in

454
00:24:50,840 --> 00:24:51,280
Speaker 1: this case.

455
00:24:52,600 --> 00:24:55,720
Speaker 3: Yeah, I guess, you know, from the previous shooting. I'm

456
00:24:55,800 --> 00:24:58,719
Speaker 3: curious as to whether or not the bullet penetrated at

457
00:24:58,720 --> 00:25:01,040
Speaker 3: the skull and that they recovered bullet from his brain,

458
00:25:01,320 --> 00:25:04,280
Speaker 3: or did this bullet just merely bounce I mean just

459
00:25:04,480 --> 00:25:07,840
Speaker 3: literally hit the skull and bounced off or glazed off

460
00:25:07,880 --> 00:25:10,879
Speaker 3: the skull. And so now they're just seeing the old

461
00:25:10,960 --> 00:25:15,080
Speaker 3: wound and potentially damaged to the exterior surface or the

462
00:25:15,119 --> 00:25:18,120
Speaker 3: external surface of the skull bone itself.

463
00:25:18,600 --> 00:25:21,359
Speaker 2: What they're saying is the doctors found the bullet wound

464
00:25:21,400 --> 00:25:25,480
Speaker 2: from the previous attempt, and they noted some bleeding of

465
00:25:25,520 --> 00:25:31,040
Speaker 2: the brain, specifically around the wound. So this happened two

466
00:25:31,119 --> 00:25:33,600
Speaker 2: weeks earlier he had been shot in the head than

467
00:25:33,640 --> 00:25:35,399
Speaker 2: when he was then beaten in the head.

468
00:25:35,480 --> 00:25:37,520
Speaker 1: Gosh, this guy, Yeah he really took it.

469
00:25:37,800 --> 00:25:42,760
Speaker 4: Yeah he did. He's very thick headed, not thick enough.

470
00:25:43,280 --> 00:25:47,480
Speaker 3: No between you know, a bullet not penetrating into the

471
00:25:47,520 --> 00:25:50,560
Speaker 3: skull and then a steel cane crushing the skull. And

472
00:25:51,359 --> 00:25:56,000
Speaker 3: you know, it's interesting, just from a pathology standpoint, is

473
00:25:56,760 --> 00:26:00,800
Speaker 3: if there was still active bleeding underneath where the bullets

474
00:26:00,880 --> 00:26:04,760
Speaker 3: struck the skull from two weeks prior, and now you've

475
00:26:04,800 --> 00:26:08,760
Speaker 3: got fresh injuries to the skull that were non fatal,

476
00:26:09,040 --> 00:26:12,840
Speaker 3: it seems to me that the pathologists would likely start

477
00:26:12,880 --> 00:26:14,800
Speaker 3: to add this up and say, well, this is a

478
00:26:14,840 --> 00:26:19,919
Speaker 3: compounding effect. It was the combination of both events that

479
00:26:20,119 --> 00:26:25,280
Speaker 3: contributed to his death. And so in essence, now you've

480
00:26:25,320 --> 00:26:28,920
Speaker 3: got whoever fired the gun as being somebody who could

481
00:26:29,000 --> 00:26:32,520
Speaker 3: be arrested and charged with murder. And then if you

482
00:26:32,600 --> 00:26:35,320
Speaker 3: found if it's a different person who hit him with

483
00:26:35,480 --> 00:26:39,439
Speaker 3: the kne you could also hit that person up for murder,

484
00:26:40,000 --> 00:26:43,760
Speaker 3: and it's like their two actions combined would be the

485
00:26:43,880 --> 00:26:49,560
Speaker 3: reason John died. If that's what the autopsy results ultimately concluded.

486
00:26:50,080 --> 00:26:53,919
Speaker 2: Well, the doctors are also saying that there was an

487
00:26:53,960 --> 00:26:58,960
Speaker 2: abnormal wetness to his brain post mortem, but maren couldn't

488
00:26:58,960 --> 00:27:02,000
Speaker 2: find much else aside from that an abnormal wetness.

489
00:27:02,080 --> 00:27:03,840
Speaker 1: What would that mean? Do you any idea?

490
00:27:04,200 --> 00:27:04,720
Speaker 4: I don't.

491
00:27:05,320 --> 00:27:10,360
Speaker 3: Of course, if there's hemorrhaging, if you have bleeding inside

492
00:27:10,400 --> 00:27:14,080
Speaker 3: the skull, the pathologists would note that and that would

493
00:27:14,119 --> 00:27:16,840
Speaker 3: be something that would be very significant in their findings

494
00:27:16,880 --> 00:27:20,080
Speaker 3: as being a reason for the cause of death. The

495
00:27:20,840 --> 00:27:25,719
Speaker 3: wetness aspect almost man, I'm stretching here. This is where

496
00:27:26,040 --> 00:27:28,680
Speaker 3: you know, would need a forensic pathologist to weigh in.

497
00:27:29,640 --> 00:27:32,440
Speaker 3: But I'm almost wondering if you have like cerebral spinal

498
00:27:32,440 --> 00:27:37,880
Speaker 3: fluid leakage, because that does go up into forgetting the term,

499
00:27:37,920 --> 00:27:40,840
Speaker 3: but these reservoirs, if you were inside the brain and

500
00:27:40,880 --> 00:27:43,840
Speaker 3: if you have some leakage, now maybe that's something that

501
00:27:43,840 --> 00:27:44,439
Speaker 3: they're seeing.

502
00:27:45,280 --> 00:27:48,320
Speaker 2: One of the other issues is a couple of different

503
00:27:48,320 --> 00:27:52,960
Speaker 2: people who attended the autopsy looked at the results and

504
00:27:53,200 --> 00:27:56,840
Speaker 2: there's a big conflict and the conflict is whether or

505
00:27:56,920 --> 00:28:01,360
Speaker 2: not he died from a combination of his previous assassination

506
00:28:01,440 --> 00:28:04,240
Speaker 2: attempt in the beating of the head or There's another

507
00:28:04,280 --> 00:28:07,040
Speaker 2: set of physicians that said, what this looks like to

508
00:28:07,080 --> 00:28:11,520
Speaker 2: them is morphine poisoning. Oh, there's a diseased condition of

509
00:28:11,560 --> 00:28:15,359
Speaker 2: the heart, the kidneys, and the goal. And these physicians

510
00:28:15,400 --> 00:28:18,399
Speaker 2: testified that there were quite a number of symptoms of

511
00:28:18,480 --> 00:28:22,040
Speaker 2: morphine poisoning that would be the same as symptoms of

512
00:28:22,080 --> 00:28:24,560
Speaker 2: a compression of the brain resulting from a blow to

513
00:28:24,600 --> 00:28:28,720
Speaker 2: the head. I have no idea can those mimic each other.

514
00:28:29,119 --> 00:28:29,920
Speaker 4: That I don't know.

515
00:28:30,640 --> 00:28:36,080
Speaker 3: Of course, morphine, which is a fairly potent opiate, you know,

516
00:28:36,200 --> 00:28:41,200
Speaker 3: it is something that acute morphine poisoning can lead to

517
00:28:41,240 --> 00:28:45,920
Speaker 3: death relatively quickly, just like overdosing on heroin, overdosing on fentanyl.

518
00:28:46,080 --> 00:28:50,240
Speaker 3: What would be interesting is if these conditions that they're seeing,

519
00:28:50,320 --> 00:28:55,320
Speaker 3: the state of these organs is from chronic morphine poisoning,

520
00:28:55,960 --> 00:28:59,280
Speaker 3: as if he was being given doses of morphine. Now,

521
00:28:59,280 --> 00:29:01,560
Speaker 3: morphine is some thing that you know, if you're doing

522
00:29:01,560 --> 00:29:04,400
Speaker 3: it at a high enough level and it doesn't take

523
00:29:04,520 --> 00:29:07,720
Speaker 3: much sheet, he's going to be feeling it. Yeah, it's

524
00:29:07,760 --> 00:29:11,560
Speaker 3: got the sedating properties, and you know he would be

525
00:29:11,720 --> 00:29:15,760
Speaker 3: somewhat out of it. But if it is a chronic aspect,

526
00:29:16,040 --> 00:29:18,920
Speaker 3: then it comes down to a house it being administered

527
00:29:19,240 --> 00:29:22,760
Speaker 3: and who has access to him on a repeated basis,

528
00:29:22,920 --> 00:29:26,840
Speaker 3: either at home, at the casino or wherever he's hanging out.

529
00:29:27,040 --> 00:29:30,280
Speaker 2: Or he's abusing it himself, which is very very possible.

530
00:29:30,400 --> 00:29:31,800
Speaker 4: That's a good point right there.

531
00:29:47,000 --> 00:29:51,600
Speaker 2: So you've got split experts, which weight not's so frustrating

532
00:29:51,600 --> 00:29:55,000
Speaker 2: split experts. We have physicians who say this looks like

533
00:29:55,040 --> 00:29:57,640
Speaker 2: he died from being beaten to death. Then we have

534
00:29:57,760 --> 00:30:00,000
Speaker 2: experts who say it looks like he died from war

535
00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:02,200
Speaker 2: morphine poisoning. And now you're looking at a whole different

536
00:30:02,240 --> 00:30:04,600
Speaker 2: set of suspects. Just like you said, who has access

537
00:30:04,640 --> 00:30:08,240
Speaker 2: to poison him if he's even been poisoned by morphine? Yeah,

538
00:30:08,320 --> 00:30:10,400
Speaker 2: but it makes a difference. It makes a difference in

539
00:30:10,440 --> 00:30:11,200
Speaker 2: who killed him.

540
00:30:11,360 --> 00:30:12,200
Speaker 4: Well, yes, and no.

541
00:30:12,440 --> 00:30:16,280
Speaker 3: Let's say sheety is abusing morphine and that can be

542
00:30:16,400 --> 00:30:20,560
Speaker 3: a contributing factor to his death. For sure, he's less

543
00:30:20,800 --> 00:30:23,800
Speaker 3: vigorous in terms, you know, because he's now in a

544
00:30:23,840 --> 00:30:28,320
Speaker 3: disease state due to chronic drug abuse. However, he's been

545
00:30:28,360 --> 00:30:31,720
Speaker 3: shot in the head, He's been bludgeoned in the head

546
00:30:31,840 --> 00:30:36,479
Speaker 3: and the face. These are acts of violence, and I

547
00:30:36,600 --> 00:30:41,560
Speaker 3: think that the offenders responsible for those two events are

548
00:30:41,640 --> 00:30:46,920
Speaker 3: the ones that caused his death. And the morphine aspect

549
00:30:47,760 --> 00:30:52,479
Speaker 3: is a contributing factor. Now it becomes more signific. If

550
00:30:52,520 --> 00:30:55,160
Speaker 3: he's just abusing it himself, then it's just a contributor.

551
00:30:55,640 --> 00:31:01,040
Speaker 3: If somebody is dosing him in a poisoning type of scenario,

552
00:31:01,560 --> 00:31:05,960
Speaker 3: than that person is also responsible for his death.

553
00:31:06,440 --> 00:31:09,560
Speaker 2: Okay, well, let's talk about suspects here. The police start

554
00:31:09,640 --> 00:31:12,520
Speaker 2: looking for Sheety's killer, and of course the public thinks

555
00:31:12,640 --> 00:31:15,320
Speaker 2: this has to do with his illegal activity. We know

556
00:31:16,040 --> 00:31:18,479
Speaker 2: that his wife, Mary has had several men in her

557
00:31:18,520 --> 00:31:22,080
Speaker 2: life off and on who could be problematic. There is

558
00:31:22,120 --> 00:31:26,640
Speaker 2: a tip from a witness who said they saw what happened.

559
00:31:26,680 --> 00:31:30,000
Speaker 2: They were in the shadows. They described the assailant. We've

560
00:31:30,000 --> 00:31:33,360
Speaker 2: heard this before. They described the assailant as a black man,

561
00:31:33,880 --> 00:31:37,560
Speaker 2: and Mary had told police that she really did not

562
00:31:37,720 --> 00:31:40,880
Speaker 2: see the attacker, but she saw the flash of somebody

563
00:31:40,880 --> 00:31:43,880
Speaker 2: who looked like a black man. They go to a

564
00:31:43,960 --> 00:31:47,720
Speaker 2: pawn shop employee who said he had recently sold a

565
00:31:47,800 --> 00:31:51,440
Speaker 2: leather bound steel caine to a black man. In the

566
00:31:51,440 --> 00:31:54,800
Speaker 2: eighteen hundreds, of these steel caines were a diamond dozen.

567
00:31:55,200 --> 00:31:59,360
Speaker 2: This man's name was William Monday McFarland. So I'm just

568
00:31:59,400 --> 00:32:01,640
Speaker 2: going to call him McFarland. You know, we see this

569
00:32:01,680 --> 00:32:04,080
Speaker 2: time and time again. You have, particularly in the eighteen

570
00:32:04,120 --> 00:32:07,520
Speaker 2: hundreds too, you have a black man as a very

571
00:32:07,600 --> 00:32:10,600
Speaker 2: convenient scapegoat in a case like this. And we don't

572
00:32:10,640 --> 00:32:12,800
Speaker 2: even know anything about McFarland yet.

573
00:32:13,000 --> 00:32:16,400
Speaker 3: Okay, And the first question that I have is why

574
00:32:16,560 --> 00:32:19,880
Speaker 3: would McFarland be involved in Sheety's homicide.

575
00:32:20,040 --> 00:32:21,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, they tracked down McFarland.

576
00:32:21,760 --> 00:32:24,640
Speaker 2: Two days later, he's arrested and taken to the city jail.

577
00:32:25,200 --> 00:32:27,920
Speaker 2: He says that he was on the receiving end of

578
00:32:27,960 --> 00:32:33,400
Speaker 2: some really bad, coercive, dangerous police interrogation tactics.

579
00:32:33,640 --> 00:32:35,040
Speaker 1: They put him in a sweat box.

580
00:32:35,360 --> 00:32:38,360
Speaker 2: He was interrogated for hours and hours and hours and hours.

581
00:32:38,440 --> 00:32:40,600
Speaker 1: Of course, I'm sure not offered an attorney.

582
00:32:40,840 --> 00:32:44,120
Speaker 2: But after he didn't quickly confess to murder, he says,

583
00:32:44,840 --> 00:32:48,120
Speaker 2: police reportedly threatened to turn him over to an angry mob.

584
00:32:48,240 --> 00:32:50,240
Speaker 2: And there was a very angry mob when they found

585
00:32:50,280 --> 00:32:52,080
Speaker 2: out it was a black man who might have done this.

586
00:32:52,720 --> 00:32:56,000
Speaker 2: He was freaked out and he broke and he confessed

587
00:32:56,160 --> 00:32:59,640
Speaker 2: to killing John Sheety and said he was also behind

588
00:32:59,680 --> 00:33:03,160
Speaker 2: the two previous assassination attempts. But he really doesn't know

589
00:33:03,240 --> 00:33:06,239
Speaker 2: the details of what happened. He could just regurgitate what

590
00:33:06,280 --> 00:33:09,600
Speaker 2: the police said. So now we're conflicted. We don't know

591
00:33:09,960 --> 00:33:13,440
Speaker 2: if McFarland, who has confessed, actually was the one who

592
00:33:13,440 --> 00:33:15,000
Speaker 2: attacked John Sheety that night.

593
00:33:15,200 --> 00:33:18,320
Speaker 3: Well, it sounds like he confessed save his life. Yeah,

594
00:33:18,320 --> 00:33:21,000
Speaker 3: this is just obviously it's an inappropriate confession.

595
00:33:21,840 --> 00:33:23,240
Speaker 4: No way can be put on that.

596
00:33:23,920 --> 00:33:27,960
Speaker 3: You know, they need to establish why would McFarland have

597
00:33:28,240 --> 00:33:32,400
Speaker 3: any reason to make repeated attempts at killing Sheety. He's

598
00:33:32,440 --> 00:33:34,600
Speaker 3: not just walking in the area with a steel caine.

599
00:33:34,800 --> 00:33:37,600
Speaker 3: He was there before with a gun and that failed,

600
00:33:37,640 --> 00:33:40,440
Speaker 3: and so now he comes back. So obviously there's some

601
00:33:40,680 --> 00:33:45,240
Speaker 3: sort of relationship that would create a reason that should

602
00:33:45,280 --> 00:33:48,400
Speaker 3: be able to be figured out. Why McFarland would be

603
00:33:48,440 --> 00:33:51,479
Speaker 3: involved in this case. Just because he has a steel

604
00:33:51,600 --> 00:33:54,960
Speaker 3: Kane in and of itself is completely insufficient.

605
00:33:55,440 --> 00:33:56,840
Speaker 1: So we do have a.

606
00:33:56,840 --> 00:34:01,120
Speaker 2: Reason because after he is intimidated by the police and

607
00:34:01,200 --> 00:34:03,760
Speaker 2: he has confessed and they say why would you do this?

608
00:34:04,560 --> 00:34:08,200
Speaker 2: He says some truthful things. One is that he was

609
00:34:08,239 --> 00:34:13,160
Speaker 2: a barber and a hairstylist. He and Mary Sheety became friends.

610
00:34:13,440 --> 00:34:15,799
Speaker 2: He would actually go to Mary Sheety's house once a

611
00:34:15,800 --> 00:34:19,440
Speaker 2: week to fix her hair, and they became friendly and

612
00:34:19,480 --> 00:34:25,280
Speaker 2: eventually they had an affair. Okay, She said to William

613
00:34:25,360 --> 00:34:29,719
Speaker 2: mcfarnland that her relationship with John Sheety, her husband, was

614
00:34:29,760 --> 00:34:32,279
Speaker 2: a sham. She was having an affair with this guy,

615
00:34:32,400 --> 00:34:36,280
Speaker 2: Harry Wallstrom, the man from Buffalo, but that that affair

616
00:34:36,400 --> 00:34:41,600
Speaker 2: was falling apart and she just needed her marriage to end.

617
00:34:42,000 --> 00:34:46,960
Speaker 2: He says that Mary offered him twenty thousand dollars to

618
00:34:47,080 --> 00:34:51,120
Speaker 2: kill her husband. Now that's almost seven hundred thousand dollars today,

619
00:34:51,480 --> 00:34:56,560
Speaker 2: but McFarland said no. Then she threatened to tell John

620
00:34:56,960 --> 00:35:01,160
Speaker 2: about their affair if he didn't kill John Sheety. He

621
00:35:01,280 --> 00:35:04,800
Speaker 2: freaked out and gave in and agreed to the scheme.

622
00:35:04,920 --> 00:35:07,680
Speaker 2: But he struggled during his first two attempts, clearly because

623
00:35:07,680 --> 00:35:10,239
Speaker 2: it didn't work to kill John Sheety, And then he

624
00:35:10,640 --> 00:35:13,560
Speaker 2: finally figured out that the only sure far away to

625
00:35:13,600 --> 00:35:16,640
Speaker 2: do this was with the cane. He has now confessed

626
00:35:16,800 --> 00:35:21,239
Speaker 2: to all of this, but McFarlane says, that's not what

627
00:35:21,440 --> 00:35:25,200
Speaker 2: killed John Sheety, because Mary poisoned his coffee that night

628
00:35:25,280 --> 00:35:25,920
Speaker 2: with morphine.

629
00:35:26,360 --> 00:35:27,319
Speaker 1: That's what killed him.

630
00:35:27,560 --> 00:35:29,440
Speaker 4: You know that was going to be my theory.

631
00:35:29,719 --> 00:35:30,000
Speaker 1: Yep.

632
00:35:30,239 --> 00:35:31,280
Speaker 4: Mary wanted out.

633
00:35:31,160 --> 00:35:35,800
Speaker 3: Of the relationship, had a lover try to kill her husband.

634
00:35:36,000 --> 00:35:40,160
Speaker 3: Obviously failed, but she had access to him after he

635
00:35:40,280 --> 00:35:44,160
Speaker 3: was in this pretty significantly injured state and was able

636
00:35:44,200 --> 00:35:47,760
Speaker 3: to overdose him on the morphine. It's interesting with McFarland

637
00:35:48,239 --> 00:35:52,080
Speaker 3: the way the confession was obtained. It's completely inappropriate. Right

638
00:35:52,160 --> 00:35:55,000
Speaker 3: the case would be thrown out based on how he

639
00:35:55,120 --> 00:35:59,800
Speaker 3: was being treated, but the details are pretty compelling.

640
00:36:00,120 --> 00:36:00,560
Speaker 4: Of course.

641
00:36:00,640 --> 00:36:05,960
Speaker 3: Now, now investigators, you've got McFarland, who I believe. You know,

642
00:36:06,120 --> 00:36:09,319
Speaker 3: if everything is right, that he shot Sheety and he

643
00:36:09,640 --> 00:36:12,279
Speaker 3: was the one that bludgen Sheety, he absolutely should be

644
00:36:12,320 --> 00:36:14,920
Speaker 3: charged with murder. But now it's a matter of proving

645
00:36:15,000 --> 00:36:18,200
Speaker 3: didn't marry give him morphine? If you have two defendants

646
00:36:18,440 --> 00:36:21,120
Speaker 3: who should be standing trial for murder in this.

647
00:36:21,200 --> 00:36:26,640
Speaker 2: Case, temporarily we have three defendants because the prosecutor ordered

648
00:36:26,680 --> 00:36:31,360
Speaker 2: the arrest of William McFarland, Mary Sheety, and for good measure,

649
00:36:31,520 --> 00:36:35,240
Speaker 2: her lover, Harry Wolstrom, who it turns out did nothing

650
00:36:35,520 --> 00:36:38,640
Speaker 2: and they released him pretty quickly. But they all pled

651
00:36:38,640 --> 00:36:45,520
Speaker 2: guilty initially to murder, and McFarland then again recanted. He said,

652
00:36:45,560 --> 00:36:50,080
Speaker 2: I did not make that confession truthfully, it was under duress,

653
00:36:50,800 --> 00:36:53,759
Speaker 2: but he was pretty specific to me. We don't know,

654
00:36:53,920 --> 00:36:56,880
Speaker 2: but he seemed pretty specific in that story.

655
00:36:57,120 --> 00:36:58,760
Speaker 1: So they moved forward.

656
00:36:58,840 --> 00:37:02,080
Speaker 2: Even though he recanted the confession, they moved forward with

657
00:37:02,160 --> 00:37:06,120
Speaker 2: the trial. This was so controversial that it took a

658
00:37:06,160 --> 00:37:11,239
Speaker 2: week and two hundred and sixteen potential jurors before finally

659
00:37:11,400 --> 00:37:14,680
Speaker 2: twelve were selected for the jury. Two hundred and sixteen

660
00:37:14,719 --> 00:37:17,920
Speaker 2: potential jurors. So this was how controversial this case was

661
00:37:18,000 --> 00:37:18,399
Speaker 2: back then.

662
00:37:18,760 --> 00:37:21,839
Speaker 3: Well, you know, the high profile nature. You're dealing with

663
00:37:22,080 --> 00:37:27,400
Speaker 3: a less than a sympathetic victim. And now because of

664
00:37:27,400 --> 00:37:31,640
Speaker 3: the publicity and the outrage, particularly with the public finding

665
00:37:31,640 --> 00:37:34,800
Speaker 3: out a black man was involved, and there's a lynch

666
00:37:34,920 --> 00:37:36,400
Speaker 3: mob in essence.

667
00:37:36,239 --> 00:37:37,280
Speaker 4: You know out there.

668
00:37:37,440 --> 00:37:40,040
Speaker 3: I could see where the general person in the public

669
00:37:40,520 --> 00:37:43,759
Speaker 3: it would be so biased that you couldn't sit them

670
00:37:43,760 --> 00:37:44,920
Speaker 3: on this jury.

671
00:37:44,760 --> 00:37:47,160
Speaker 2: Right, And I think that that's what ended up happening,

672
00:37:47,239 --> 00:37:48,800
Speaker 2: is this became a media circus.

673
00:37:48,880 --> 00:37:49,800
Speaker 1: Lots of chaos.

674
00:37:50,080 --> 00:37:52,520
Speaker 2: What I think made it even more chaotic is that

675
00:37:52,600 --> 00:37:58,000
Speaker 2: the prosecutor tried them together, Mary Sheety and William McFarland

676
00:37:58,320 --> 00:38:03,040
Speaker 2: because the prosecutor felt that the only way they could

677
00:38:03,080 --> 00:38:08,719
Speaker 2: introduce McFarlane's confession was to have them tried together, because

678
00:38:08,719 --> 00:38:10,680
Speaker 2: he was afraid if not, it would be thrown out.

679
00:38:10,920 --> 00:38:13,160
Speaker 4: Did Mary make any statements? Was she interviewed?

680
00:38:13,400 --> 00:38:15,480
Speaker 1: She denied it. She was, and she denied it.

681
00:38:15,520 --> 00:38:18,440
Speaker 2: They didn't find the coffee cup that supposedly she had

682
00:38:18,440 --> 00:38:20,879
Speaker 2: been using to poison him. There was no hard, hard

683
00:38:21,000 --> 00:38:26,279
Speaker 2: evidence except for what McFarlane said happened and for the

684
00:38:26,520 --> 00:38:29,440
Speaker 2: medical experts who say, boy, this looks like morphine poisoning

685
00:38:29,480 --> 00:38:30,160
Speaker 2: to us.

686
00:38:30,239 --> 00:38:34,040
Speaker 1: So in late April of eighteen ninety one, Sheety's.

687
00:38:33,600 --> 00:38:36,440
Speaker 2: Body was exhumed and they took his head and his

688
00:38:36,520 --> 00:38:39,200
Speaker 2: spinal cord and his liver and his bladder and remove them,

689
00:38:39,320 --> 00:38:44,200
Speaker 2: and they underwent further analysis to determine a conclusive cause

690
00:38:44,200 --> 00:38:47,080
Speaker 2: of death. They wanted to know was this poisoning which

691
00:38:47,080 --> 00:38:50,319
Speaker 2: one killed him, because it made a difference, and ultimately

692
00:38:50,680 --> 00:38:54,000
Speaker 2: the cause of death seems incredibly unclear. There were different

693
00:38:54,040 --> 00:38:57,680
Speaker 2: medical experts, once again, who had different opinions. The parties

694
00:38:57,680 --> 00:39:01,480
Speaker 2: who promoted the idea of morphine poison did that on

695
00:39:01,560 --> 00:39:05,520
Speaker 2: the basis of the way Sheety's symptoms were presenting on

696
00:39:05,560 --> 00:39:06,680
Speaker 2: the night of the attack.

697
00:39:07,080 --> 00:39:10,120
Speaker 1: So this was not based on whatever they exhumed. It

698
00:39:10,280 --> 00:39:10,959
Speaker 1: was the.

699
00:39:10,880 --> 00:39:14,440
Speaker 2: Description that the physicians gave of how he was presenting

700
00:39:14,480 --> 00:39:15,520
Speaker 2: on the night of the attack.

701
00:39:15,760 --> 00:39:18,879
Speaker 4: But these physicians also gave himself and all they did.

702
00:39:18,880 --> 00:39:20,799
Speaker 2: And I think these are the physicians who then came

703
00:39:20,840 --> 00:39:22,799
Speaker 2: back and looked at the state of his body. The

704
00:39:22,920 --> 00:39:25,799
Speaker 2: question to me is, regardless of who did what, this

705
00:39:25,880 --> 00:39:29,479
Speaker 2: man clearly had been killed and they're trying to sort

706
00:39:29,520 --> 00:39:32,080
Speaker 2: out who did it because it does, at least to

707
00:39:32,120 --> 00:39:34,160
Speaker 2: this judge and this jury make a difference.

708
00:39:34,560 --> 00:39:38,640
Speaker 3: As I think about McFarland and his confession. You know,

709
00:39:38,719 --> 00:39:41,560
Speaker 3: of course, on the surface, I mean the details he's

710
00:39:41,560 --> 00:39:45,279
Speaker 3: providing are compelling. I'd want to know what details he

711
00:39:45,440 --> 00:39:50,080
Speaker 3: was fed by his interviewers, right, That's really where you

712
00:39:50,120 --> 00:39:53,920
Speaker 3: get into the crux of some of these coerced confessions,

713
00:39:54,239 --> 00:39:57,640
Speaker 3: especially when McFarland is being told we're going to turn

714
00:39:57,680 --> 00:40:00,719
Speaker 3: you over to the lynch mob. You know, is he

715
00:40:00,960 --> 00:40:04,960
Speaker 3: now just in essence basically a parrot the interviewers are saying,

716
00:40:05,040 --> 00:40:07,439
Speaker 3: did you shoot Sheety because you're about to be paid

717
00:40:07,480 --> 00:40:09,520
Speaker 3: twenty thousand dollars by Mary?

718
00:40:10,200 --> 00:40:11,080
Speaker 4: Yes, sir, I did.

719
00:40:11,360 --> 00:40:14,360
Speaker 3: Is that the way this, how the questions are being asked,

720
00:40:14,360 --> 00:40:17,560
Speaker 3: The details that these interviewers are providing ahead of the

721
00:40:17,600 --> 00:40:22,200
Speaker 3: answers becomes important. The circumstances we know are completely inappropriate.

722
00:40:22,440 --> 00:40:27,279
Speaker 3: So assessing McFarlane's involvement, I think it gets a lot

723
00:40:27,360 --> 00:40:30,520
Speaker 3: more complicated because we don't have recordings of the interview,

724
00:40:30,520 --> 00:40:33,080
Speaker 3: we don't have video recording of the interview, We don't

725
00:40:33,160 --> 00:40:35,239
Speaker 3: know what kind of duress he was under, what kinds

726
00:40:35,239 --> 00:40:40,040
Speaker 3: of information he was provided. But if he is legitimately

727
00:40:40,280 --> 00:40:45,480
Speaker 3: making these statements with these kinds of details without having

728
00:40:45,560 --> 00:40:49,439
Speaker 3: them being provided to him, then that's where I go, Okay, Yeah,

729
00:40:49,480 --> 00:40:54,480
Speaker 3: he likely is involved in the attacks on Sheety for sure.

730
00:40:55,120 --> 00:40:55,319
Speaker 1: Yeah.

731
00:40:55,360 --> 00:40:58,600
Speaker 2: I mean I'm leaning towards McFarland being likely involved also,

732
00:40:58,680 --> 00:41:02,600
Speaker 2: and I certainly lean towards Mary being involved. I would

733
00:41:02,600 --> 00:41:06,399
Speaker 2: believe in the morphine in the coffee absolutely. So let's

734
00:41:06,440 --> 00:41:10,320
Speaker 2: talk about toxicology because this surprised me too. Toxicology was

735
00:41:10,360 --> 00:41:13,560
Speaker 2: available in the late eighteen hundreds and there were a

736
00:41:13,640 --> 00:41:16,200
Speaker 2: number of symptoms. As we talked about that just lay

737
00:41:16,239 --> 00:41:18,640
Speaker 2: doctors looked and said, this looks like morphine to us.

738
00:41:19,280 --> 00:41:23,359
Speaker 2: They brought in toxicologists, and months after the murder when

739
00:41:23,400 --> 00:41:27,600
Speaker 2: they exhoomed his body, a well regarded toxicologist whose name

740
00:41:27,640 --> 00:41:31,040
Speaker 2: was Professor Haynes, came from Chicago and he tested Sheety's

741
00:41:31,160 --> 00:41:34,480
Speaker 2: organs and he found no traces of morphine.

742
00:41:34,640 --> 00:41:37,240
Speaker 1: But again this is months months.

743
00:41:37,840 --> 00:41:40,359
Speaker 2: So question number one is how long does morphine stay

744
00:41:40,360 --> 00:41:42,840
Speaker 2: in the system? And question number two is both the

745
00:41:42,880 --> 00:41:46,120
Speaker 2: prosecution and the defense said, well, listen, the body parts

746
00:41:46,160 --> 00:41:49,920
Speaker 2: were transported in jars and they were not sealed before

747
00:41:49,960 --> 00:41:52,080
Speaker 2: they were handed over to Professor Haynes, So they're saying

748
00:41:52,080 --> 00:41:53,000
Speaker 2: there's contamination.

749
00:41:53,600 --> 00:41:57,120
Speaker 3: Well, you know, the types of toxicology testing that were

750
00:41:57,160 --> 00:42:00,719
Speaker 3: being done back then were color metric we're crystal tests.

751
00:42:01,239 --> 00:42:04,799
Speaker 3: And the amount of morphine in a system, you know,

752
00:42:04,840 --> 00:42:08,280
Speaker 3: you and chess morphine. It's distributed throughout the various tissues

753
00:42:08,280 --> 00:42:10,640
Speaker 3: in the body, you know, so it ends up being

754
00:42:10,840 --> 00:42:14,640
Speaker 3: quite small amounts in any tissue, and for example, if

755
00:42:14,680 --> 00:42:18,160
Speaker 3: it's in the blood, you have to have the technology

756
00:42:18,160 --> 00:42:23,040
Speaker 3: available to detect the morphine and its metabolites at very

757
00:42:23,080 --> 00:42:26,640
Speaker 3: small levels in which these color metric and crystal tests

758
00:42:26,680 --> 00:42:31,680
Speaker 3: really couldn't do. It required a lot, relatively speaking, compared

759
00:42:31,800 --> 00:42:34,359
Speaker 3: to the technologies that are being used today. Now when

760
00:42:34,400 --> 00:42:39,040
Speaker 3: you start talking about testing tissues several months after death. Yeah,

761
00:42:39,239 --> 00:42:41,359
Speaker 3: and of course one of the big questions is is

762
00:42:41,480 --> 00:42:42,880
Speaker 3: you know what's the body embalmed?

763
00:42:43,320 --> 00:42:45,560
Speaker 1: I don't know, but I looked it up.

764
00:42:45,920 --> 00:42:50,240
Speaker 2: And embalming really became popular around the Civil War time,

765
00:42:50,800 --> 00:42:54,120
Speaker 2: which would have been twenty something years before this, and

766
00:42:54,280 --> 00:42:57,040
Speaker 2: in the eighteen seventies it became much more common. So

767
00:42:57,280 --> 00:43:01,520
Speaker 2: someone of his stature, however sleazy, he was good chance

768
00:43:01,560 --> 00:43:04,279
Speaker 2: that it was EMBALMD. So what difference would that have

769
00:43:04,440 --> 00:43:06,520
Speaker 2: made if his body were embalmed.

770
00:43:06,840 --> 00:43:10,759
Speaker 3: Well, the embalming is pumping these various solvents and other

771
00:43:10,840 --> 00:43:15,000
Speaker 3: chemicals into the body as a preservative. It's going through

772
00:43:15,280 --> 00:43:18,840
Speaker 3: the blood vessels, right So now the blood in essence

773
00:43:18,960 --> 00:43:22,160
Speaker 3: is removed, and blood is one of the primary sources

774
00:43:22,400 --> 00:43:27,680
Speaker 3: of detecting drugs, so that is eliminated right away. Now

775
00:43:27,760 --> 00:43:30,520
Speaker 3: you're having to rely on tissues in which morphine and

776
00:43:30,520 --> 00:43:34,759
Speaker 3: his metabolites would partition into distribute into. Now you have

777
00:43:34,840 --> 00:43:37,719
Speaker 3: a body that has been buried for several months, and

778
00:43:37,800 --> 00:43:43,319
Speaker 3: if it's embalmed, it would be relatively well preserved from

779
00:43:43,400 --> 00:43:47,880
Speaker 3: a look standpoint, But there's still chemical processes that go

780
00:43:48,040 --> 00:43:52,480
Speaker 3: on that degrade all these various drugs in the system.

781
00:43:52,840 --> 00:43:56,920
Speaker 3: This is now where you have to resort to hair

782
00:43:57,160 --> 00:44:01,719
Speaker 3: fingernails for drugs that are being chronic abused that are

783
00:44:01,800 --> 00:44:07,920
Speaker 3: now being deposited in these more stable structures, more stable

784
00:44:07,960 --> 00:44:12,279
Speaker 3: tissues of the body which acute morphine overdose, You're not

785
00:44:12,320 --> 00:44:16,120
Speaker 3: going to see anything in those structures. So I just

786
00:44:16,239 --> 00:44:20,120
Speaker 3: don't think that they would have had any success. Even

787
00:44:20,160 --> 00:44:23,280
Speaker 3: if he had been overdosed on morphine in acute exposure

788
00:44:23,320 --> 00:44:25,959
Speaker 3: that night by Mary, they would not have been able

789
00:44:26,000 --> 00:44:29,560
Speaker 3: to detect it using the techniques that they had, And

790
00:44:29,600 --> 00:44:32,919
Speaker 3: I even question whether or not today, using much more

791
00:44:32,960 --> 00:44:35,520
Speaker 3: sensitive technologies, we would be able to detect it.

792
00:44:35,760 --> 00:44:37,719
Speaker 2: So there's still a good chance in your mind that

793
00:44:37,800 --> 00:44:40,200
Speaker 2: Mary was the one responsible. It sounds like everybody tried

794
00:44:40,200 --> 00:44:43,239
Speaker 2: to kill this guy, But ultimately, if we're going to

795
00:44:43,280 --> 00:44:47,480
Speaker 2: be technical technical, he's sitting up, he's talking to his wife,

796
00:44:47,640 --> 00:44:50,200
Speaker 2: and he's going to bed. He's drinking coffee after being

797
00:44:50,200 --> 00:44:53,160
Speaker 2: beaten on the head. Not a crush skull. They say, yes,

798
00:44:53,200 --> 00:44:56,040
Speaker 2: he's had this bullet wound from twenty days ago in

799
00:44:56,120 --> 00:44:57,640
Speaker 2: his head, but he's.

800
00:44:57,480 --> 00:45:00,000
Speaker 1: Going to sleep. We're checking out what's happening.

801
00:45:00,000 --> 00:45:04,799
Speaker 2: I wonder which one would you think ultimately would have

802
00:45:04,840 --> 00:45:06,640
Speaker 2: been the one that would have done him in.

803
00:45:07,320 --> 00:45:11,399
Speaker 3: Well, I go back to my initial assessment is that

804
00:45:11,760 --> 00:45:15,399
Speaker 3: he's been shot in the head, yeah, right, that they

805
00:45:15,600 --> 00:45:20,200
Speaker 3: see active bleeding on the brain underneath where this bullet

806
00:45:20,239 --> 00:45:23,319
Speaker 3: wound was at the time of autopsy. And then he's

807
00:45:23,440 --> 00:45:27,160
Speaker 3: also received several blows from a steel cane during this

808
00:45:27,280 --> 00:45:32,160
Speaker 3: bludgeoning the night before he dies. These cannot be removed

809
00:45:32,320 --> 00:45:36,439
Speaker 3: from being contributing to the cause of his death. And

810
00:45:36,520 --> 00:45:42,600
Speaker 3: then to add morphine, let's say, intentional overdose of morphine

811
00:45:42,960 --> 00:45:46,040
Speaker 3: on top of it. All three of those events I

812
00:45:46,200 --> 00:45:51,760
Speaker 3: believe are criminally viable to charge individuals responsible with murder.

813
00:45:52,239 --> 00:45:56,080
Speaker 3: And that's where I believe both McFarland and Mary Sheety

814
00:45:56,440 --> 00:45:59,280
Speaker 3: are rightfully being charged with murder in this case.

815
00:46:00,440 --> 00:46:02,600
Speaker 2: Man, it was eighteen days, which is a very long

816
00:46:02,680 --> 00:46:07,239
Speaker 2: time in a trial for eighteen ninety and the prosecutor

817
00:46:07,360 --> 00:46:10,360
Speaker 2: really played up on the illicit sex and the rising

818
00:46:10,480 --> 00:46:13,760
Speaker 2: racial tensions that were happening in Lincoln, Nebraska at the time.

819
00:46:14,560 --> 00:46:19,279
Speaker 2: And really what the state's case against McFarlane hung on

820
00:46:19,560 --> 00:46:24,520
Speaker 2: this conspiracy was his confession that he said Mary was

821
00:46:24,560 --> 00:46:28,439
Speaker 2: the one who paid me. He said Mary had been

822
00:46:28,520 --> 00:46:32,400
Speaker 2: unhappy with her husband. He said Mary put the morphine

823
00:46:32,400 --> 00:46:34,520
Speaker 2: in his cup of coffee that night and killed him,

824
00:46:34,719 --> 00:46:38,440
Speaker 2: and that's what happened. The judge said to the jury,

825
00:46:38,560 --> 00:46:41,080
Speaker 2: we're throwing that confession out. We're not doing it, which

826
00:46:41,080 --> 00:46:42,240
Speaker 2: seems like the right decision.

827
00:46:42,560 --> 00:46:47,239
Speaker 3: Yeah, based on the circumstances. It is a coerced confession,

828
00:46:47,719 --> 00:46:50,720
Speaker 3: and even if the details of the confession are accurate

829
00:46:50,880 --> 00:46:55,480
Speaker 3: and implicate McFarland, you cannot conduct an interview under that

830
00:46:55,680 --> 00:47:01,000
Speaker 3: type of pressure because of this very situation. Have that

831
00:47:01,400 --> 00:47:05,600
Speaker 3: very incriminating statements that he's making McFarland is making, you

832
00:47:05,600 --> 00:47:07,799
Speaker 3: don't want to run the risk of having them thrown out.

833
00:47:07,840 --> 00:47:10,319
Speaker 3: And that's where the investigators in this case were just

834
00:47:10,440 --> 00:47:13,760
Speaker 3: stupid to pursue that angle.

835
00:47:13,600 --> 00:47:14,280
Speaker 4: And that pressure.

836
00:47:14,280 --> 00:47:17,840
Speaker 3: But that's probably what they did in every single case

837
00:47:17,960 --> 00:47:18,200
Speaker 3: like this.

838
00:47:18,640 --> 00:47:22,240
Speaker 2: Sure, so the prosecutors are left with mostly a circumstantial

839
00:47:22,280 --> 00:47:27,600
Speaker 2: case against Mary Sheety and William McFarland. They just simply say, listen,

840
00:47:27,719 --> 00:47:30,440
Speaker 2: who else could it have been? And wrap it up

841
00:47:30,719 --> 00:47:34,200
Speaker 2: and it goes to the jury, and ultimately the jury

842
00:47:34,239 --> 00:47:38,120
Speaker 2: returns not guilty and they both walk free, even though

843
00:47:38,160 --> 00:47:39,919
Speaker 2: it's likely they both killed him.

844
00:47:40,120 --> 00:47:42,719
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, And that's the frustrating part is if they

845
00:47:42,719 --> 00:47:47,000
Speaker 3: are responsible, it's frustrating that they got off. But the

846
00:47:47,040 --> 00:47:50,480
Speaker 3: way it has been handled, yeah, that is not surprising.

847
00:47:50,520 --> 00:47:53,920
Speaker 3: And I believe that jurors probably came back with the

848
00:47:54,000 --> 00:47:58,000
Speaker 3: right decision. It also does come down to sheety as

849
00:47:58,040 --> 00:48:00,440
Speaker 3: a victim, even though you.

850
00:48:00,320 --> 00:48:01,120
Speaker 4: Don't go out.

851
00:48:01,200 --> 00:48:04,680
Speaker 3: You can't have people taking the law into their own hands,

852
00:48:04,920 --> 00:48:08,320
Speaker 3: or you know, let's eliminate this person. You know, sometimes

853
00:48:08,320 --> 00:48:11,920
Speaker 3: we call these misdemeanor homicides jokingly because the victim is

854
00:48:11,920 --> 00:48:14,640
Speaker 3: somebody that it's like, oh my god, this guy has

855
00:48:14,760 --> 00:48:18,400
Speaker 3: has spent such a menace to society. The fact that

856
00:48:18,480 --> 00:48:22,319
Speaker 3: he is now dead is that nobody's going to miss him.

857
00:48:22,800 --> 00:48:27,920
Speaker 3: That sounds like seedy. But you can't have somebody deciding, well,

858
00:48:27,960 --> 00:48:29,719
Speaker 3: we're going to kill this person, right, you know, and

859
00:48:30,080 --> 00:48:33,000
Speaker 3: Mary deciding I want to get out of this abusive relationship.

860
00:48:33,040 --> 00:48:35,120
Speaker 3: You can feel for a woman, you know, in terms

861
00:48:35,200 --> 00:48:38,440
Speaker 3: of if she's in an abusive relationship. You want her

862
00:48:38,600 --> 00:48:42,920
Speaker 3: to be safe, but to take the measures of homicide

863
00:48:43,400 --> 00:48:45,160
Speaker 3: is just wrong. You know, you can't allow that.

864
00:48:45,520 --> 00:48:47,680
Speaker 2: I just thought it was so interesting that when the

865
00:48:47,800 --> 00:48:51,439
Speaker 2: jury couldn't decide who killed him, what happened, who killed him,

866
00:48:52,160 --> 00:48:54,920
Speaker 2: you have all these people who are suspects. They had

867
00:48:54,960 --> 00:48:57,319
Speaker 2: no choice but to let him go. He was very

868
00:48:57,320 --> 00:49:01,560
Speaker 2: clearly murdered. It was it was probably these two people,

869
00:49:01,600 --> 00:49:05,960
Speaker 2: and they just vanished, both Mary and William, probably separately,

870
00:49:06,200 --> 00:49:08,360
Speaker 2: I would guess, just vanished from history.

871
00:49:08,560 --> 00:49:12,680
Speaker 3: Well, and they may have vanished from the local area,

872
00:49:12,920 --> 00:49:16,399
Speaker 3: especially McFarland, you know, because everybody would have just assumed, well,

873
00:49:16,440 --> 00:49:18,400
Speaker 3: you just got off and so we'll take justice into

874
00:49:18,440 --> 00:49:21,000
Speaker 3: our own hands, and the lynch mob aspect comes out.

875
00:49:21,120 --> 00:49:24,279
Speaker 3: And then if Mary, if people think you know the

876
00:49:24,280 --> 00:49:27,480
Speaker 3: same about Mary, you know, she's in danger. So I

877
00:49:27,520 --> 00:49:30,960
Speaker 3: could imagine they relocated and you know, lived out the

878
00:49:30,960 --> 00:49:34,520
Speaker 3: rest of their years somewhere else in anonymity.

879
00:49:34,840 --> 00:49:37,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, this is the frustrating part of law though.

880
00:49:37,400 --> 00:49:40,440
Speaker 2: You have these situations where the right thing to do

881
00:49:40,440 --> 00:49:44,400
Speaker 2: doesn't feel like the right thing. The not guilty doesn't

882
00:49:44,440 --> 00:49:48,279
Speaker 2: feel legally it's right, but morally it just feels so.

883
00:49:48,320 --> 00:49:49,640
Speaker 4: Wrong right now.

884
00:49:49,760 --> 00:49:53,880
Speaker 3: This really underscores though, and we've seen how protections to

885
00:49:54,000 --> 00:49:58,600
Speaker 3: the defendants have evolved over the years, such as Miranda

886
00:49:59,000 --> 00:50:03,399
Speaker 3: because of situations like this abuse by authorities.

887
00:50:03,680 --> 00:50:07,200
Speaker 4: And this is where in this day and age.

888
00:50:07,239 --> 00:50:10,880
Speaker 3: Law enforcement professionals, whether you're out on patrol or you

889
00:50:11,080 --> 00:50:16,400
Speaker 3: are in investigations, you have to be so on top

890
00:50:16,760 --> 00:50:19,440
Speaker 3: of the laws. You have to be on top of

891
00:50:19,440 --> 00:50:22,759
Speaker 3: the ever changing case laws in order to protect the

892
00:50:22,800 --> 00:50:26,080
Speaker 3: integrity of the case because the actions you are doing,

893
00:50:26,520 --> 00:50:29,080
Speaker 3: no matter how well intentioned. I mean, there are people

894
00:50:29,120 --> 00:50:31,640
Speaker 3: that do bad things in law enforcement, but there are

895
00:50:31,680 --> 00:50:36,399
Speaker 3: people who step outside of the legalities because they just

896
00:50:36,600 --> 00:50:37,320
Speaker 3: aren't aware.

897
00:50:37,440 --> 00:50:38,440
Speaker 4: Oh, the case law.

898
00:50:38,360 --> 00:50:42,600
Speaker 3: Changed and now they've done something in which whatever they

899
00:50:42,600 --> 00:50:46,279
Speaker 3: were doing on that case gets tossed. And that's the

900
00:50:46,360 --> 00:50:51,440
Speaker 3: technical aspect of It's so so hard on the law

901
00:50:51,520 --> 00:50:56,200
Speaker 3: enforcement professionals to stay on top of so much that's

902
00:50:56,239 --> 00:51:00,799
Speaker 3: constantly changing and oftentimes having to make decisions that are

903
00:51:00,960 --> 00:51:04,360
Speaker 3: split second decisions based on these ever changing laws.

904
00:51:04,640 --> 00:51:06,839
Speaker 4: That's where you get frustrated, where.

905
00:51:06,520 --> 00:51:09,360
Speaker 3: Somebody who's well intentioned, but next thing you know, now

906
00:51:09,680 --> 00:51:13,319
Speaker 3: that law enforcement professional violated the defendants right because we

907
00:51:13,400 --> 00:51:16,720
Speaker 3: had a recent case law that came out that now

908
00:51:16,760 --> 00:51:17,560
Speaker 3: you can't do that.

909
00:51:17,600 --> 00:51:19,800
Speaker 4: Even though previously you could, now you can't.

910
00:51:20,080 --> 00:51:22,120
Speaker 1: What I love about this show is that I.

911
00:51:22,040 --> 00:51:24,919
Speaker 2: Can bring you a case from eighteen ninety eighteen ninety one,

912
00:51:25,360 --> 00:51:29,200
Speaker 2: and you can draw that from your experience works in

913
00:51:29,239 --> 00:51:33,759
Speaker 2: parallel with the experience of a detective or a prosecutor

914
00:51:34,120 --> 00:51:36,600
Speaker 2: from the eighteen nineties, because these are all the same.

915
00:51:36,840 --> 00:51:39,959
Speaker 2: The issues are the same, sometimes the tactics are the same.

916
00:51:40,080 --> 00:51:44,719
Speaker 2: We have an improvement, certainly of technology now, but there

917
00:51:44,760 --> 00:51:47,080
Speaker 2: are some cases that we talk about that were solved

918
00:51:47,280 --> 00:51:50,880
Speaker 2: simply because the detectives were good and they cared and

919
00:51:50,920 --> 00:51:53,160
Speaker 2: they tried to talk to people, and boy, they just

920
00:51:53,200 --> 00:51:56,120
Speaker 2: couldn't make it over the goal line on this case.

921
00:51:56,440 --> 00:52:01,400
Speaker 3: Right, And this is an example of the limitations that

922
00:52:01,440 --> 00:52:03,719
Speaker 3: you can run across in which I think you use

923
00:52:03,760 --> 00:52:06,279
Speaker 3: the term get over the goal line. You know you're

924
00:52:06,320 --> 00:52:09,760
Speaker 3: on the right path, it's just you don't have enough.

925
00:52:10,680 --> 00:52:14,040
Speaker 3: And there are many cases. So there are cases in

926
00:52:14,080 --> 00:52:19,560
Speaker 3: my past which myself, original investigators, we know who the

927
00:52:19,640 --> 00:52:22,360
Speaker 3: killer is, we just can't get it to a point

928
00:52:22,520 --> 00:52:25,040
Speaker 3: to where we can get enough probable cost to an

929
00:52:25,040 --> 00:52:28,160
Speaker 3: affect an arrest and to get a DA to go yes,

930
00:52:28,360 --> 00:52:31,879
Speaker 3: I will prosecute, and that is frustrating. And that's when

931
00:52:31,920 --> 00:52:34,400
Speaker 3: you hope, well, I hope more witnesses come forward, or

932
00:52:34,440 --> 00:52:38,440
Speaker 3: I hope technology improves where we can get that final

933
00:52:38,480 --> 00:52:40,840
Speaker 3: bit that will push the case over the goal line.

934
00:52:40,920 --> 00:52:43,240
Speaker 4: And sometimes it happens and sometimes it doesn't.

935
00:52:43,719 --> 00:52:47,600
Speaker 2: And that's why I think meaningful input from the public

936
00:52:47,880 --> 00:52:50,920
Speaker 2: is so important, because you know, maybe they're scared to

937
00:52:50,960 --> 00:52:53,360
Speaker 2: talk about something, or there's a relative that they know

938
00:52:53,480 --> 00:52:56,400
Speaker 2: did something and they're just hoping that the police, with

939
00:52:56,520 --> 00:52:58,760
Speaker 2: DNA and all the flashy stuff you see on TV

940
00:52:58,920 --> 00:53:01,840
Speaker 2: can do it without the involvement, and so many times

941
00:53:01,880 --> 00:53:02,400
Speaker 2: they can't.

942
00:53:02,440 --> 00:53:04,240
Speaker 1: The police can't do it without help.

943
00:53:04,480 --> 00:53:07,240
Speaker 3: And that's that's something where you being in the world

944
00:53:07,360 --> 00:53:11,520
Speaker 3: of cold cases, that is an advantage that I can

945
00:53:11,560 --> 00:53:14,480
Speaker 3: take advantage of is the passage of time, because you

946
00:53:14,600 --> 00:53:19,200
Speaker 3: may have witnesses or family members, et cetera, who are

947
00:53:19,239 --> 00:53:22,440
Speaker 3: scared to talk in part maybe because they have fear

948
00:53:22,480 --> 00:53:26,120
Speaker 3: for their own safety or their family members' safety because

949
00:53:26,520 --> 00:53:30,680
Speaker 3: of an existing relationship with the offender. But then time

950
00:53:30,760 --> 00:53:33,880
Speaker 3: goes on, maybe the offender gets arrested and he's in prison,

951
00:53:33,960 --> 00:53:36,240
Speaker 3: for the rest of his life. He's no longer a threat,

952
00:53:36,760 --> 00:53:39,560
Speaker 3: and so now they're more willing to come forward with

953
00:53:39,600 --> 00:53:43,719
Speaker 3: the information. That's something that can be exploited. And even

954
00:53:43,760 --> 00:53:46,680
Speaker 3: in this case, there may be circumstances that if this

955
00:53:46,880 --> 00:53:51,160
Speaker 3: was not such an old case, that now people who

956
00:53:51,239 --> 00:53:55,399
Speaker 3: were afraid to talk because of whatever would be able

957
00:53:55,400 --> 00:54:00,400
Speaker 3: to come forward with information that could be much more incriminating. Oh,

958
00:54:00,600 --> 00:54:03,880
Speaker 3: the pharmacist says, yeah, I just sold Mary Sheety a

959
00:54:03,920 --> 00:54:07,520
Speaker 3: whole bunch of morphine last week. You know that's a

960
00:54:07,520 --> 00:54:09,880
Speaker 3: circumstance that would be taken into consideration.

961
00:54:10,239 --> 00:54:14,239
Speaker 2: Well, John Sheedy did not get justice. Ultimately, doesn't sound

962
00:54:14,280 --> 00:54:16,920
Speaker 2: like a whole lot of people were sad that he died,

963
00:54:17,600 --> 00:54:21,719
Speaker 2: But ultimately it's not the victim and their life. We're

964
00:54:21,760 --> 00:54:24,200
Speaker 2: having to solve a case regardless of how we feel

965
00:54:24,239 --> 00:54:31,200
Speaker 2: about the victim. So next week we'll have another compelling case.

966
00:54:31,360 --> 00:54:33,960
Speaker 4: Yeah, no again, I'll be looking forward to it.

967
00:54:39,040 --> 00:54:41,560
Speaker 2: This has been an exactly right production.

968
00:54:41,560 --> 00:54:44,480
Speaker 3: For our sources and show notes go to exactly Rightmedia

969
00:54:44,520 --> 00:54:46,960
Speaker 3: dot com, slash Buried Bones sources.

970
00:54:47,160 --> 00:54:49,560
Speaker 1: Our senior producer is Alexis Emrosi.

971
00:54:49,800 --> 00:54:52,640
Speaker 3: Research by Maren mcclashan and Kate Winkler Dawson.

972
00:54:52,840 --> 00:54:55,200
Speaker 1: Our mixing engineer is Ryo Baum.

973
00:54:55,400 --> 00:54:57,680
Speaker 4: Our theme song is by Tom Bryfogel.

974
00:54:57,920 --> 00:54:59,880
Speaker 1: Our artwork is by Vanessa Lilac.

975
00:55:00,200 --> 00:55:04,360
Speaker 3: Executive produced by Karen Kilgarriff, Georgia hard Stark and Danielle Kramer.

976
00:55:04,640 --> 00:55:08,000
Speaker 2: You can follow Buried Bones on Instagram and Facebook at

977
00:55:08,080 --> 00:55:09,240
Speaker 2: buried Bones pod.

978
00:55:09,719 --> 00:55:12,240
Speaker 3: Kate's most recent book, All That Is Wicked, a Gilded

979
00:55:12,280 --> 00:55:14,239
Speaker 3: Age story of murder and the race to decode the

980
00:55:14,280 --> 00:55:16,520
Speaker 3: criminal mind, is available now, and

981
00:55:16,640 --> 00:55:21,400
Speaker 2: Paul's best selling memoir Unmasked, My life solving America's cold Cases,

982
00:55:21,600 --> 00:55:22,759
Speaker 2: is also available now