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Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to Savor production of iHeart Radio. I'm

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Speaker 1: Any Reese and I'm Lauren bog Obam and today we

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Speaker 1: have an episode for you about Puto di Parma fraud. Yes, um,

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Speaker 1: and it's a fun one. Uh but it already so

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Speaker 1: we chose this in part because of hijinks, and funnily enough,

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Speaker 1: it involves some hijinks. It involved more accidental hijinks. Well, okay,

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Speaker 1: so if if you're listening the day that it is

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Speaker 1: hopefully coming out, um it is. Uh it is April one,

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Speaker 1: a k a. April Fools Day, So happy April Fool's Day.

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Speaker 1: I hate April Fool's Day. Um, but it feels like

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Speaker 1: like you got your hands up in this defensive manner

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Speaker 1: and all these like internet articles are coming at me

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Speaker 1: and I'm like, it's like a false get away. And

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Speaker 1: then like I usually last year I thought there was

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Speaker 1: it was false the Knives Out sequel on Netflix. I

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Speaker 1: thought was in April fools prank because they announced it

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Speaker 1: on April Fools. So that's that's my that's my existence

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Speaker 1: on April Fool's Day. It's just like what is real

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Speaker 1: right right? Like like like the fabric of reality becomes

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Speaker 1: unfabricty it does it is here we are yeah, so okay.

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Speaker 1: So so we were thinking about what we did not do.

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Speaker 1: We had discussed and what we did not do is

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Speaker 1: do an episode not about food at all, um, but

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Speaker 1: just us, you know, having a prolonged Annie and Lauren

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Speaker 1: sidebar uh, which you know, and like kind of never

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Speaker 1: acknowledging it, yes, like doing it in the same format, yeah,

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Speaker 1: never mentioning that we were not talking about food. I

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Speaker 1: think Star Wars was in the running. We were just

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Speaker 1: gonna start like D and D or something. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: but we we did not do that. And so instead

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Speaker 1: I was like, okay, well, what can we maybe like

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Speaker 1: food fraud? That would be fun um. And so I

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Speaker 1: was kind of looking into some of the um most

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Speaker 1: well known cases of food fraud because we've done food

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Speaker 1: heists before, um, but food fraud is a whole separate

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Speaker 1: category and um and a lot of them, a lot

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Speaker 1: of them involved people getting like horribly poisoned, um, bye

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Speaker 1: bye bad food. And that was not the lighthearted episode

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Speaker 1: I was looking to do. But I fell upon presciuto

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Speaker 1: fraud um. And very very frequently, if there's a word

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Speaker 1: that I don't enjoy trying to spell. I'll use a

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Speaker 1: different term, and so pshutto di parma um, which is

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Speaker 1: parsiuto from the Parma region. Um is also called Parma ham.

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Speaker 1: So I was like, Hey, Annie, do you want to

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Speaker 1: do an episode about Parma ham fraud? Mm hmmm, And

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Speaker 1: I typed that in. I saw that there was a

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Speaker 1: lot of articles and said, absolutely, yes, let's do it.

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Speaker 1: I'm into it. Uh proceeded to do research on a

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Speaker 1: thing that I believed I knew nothing about. I had

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Speaker 1: no idea what Parma ham was. I thought it was

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Speaker 1: a Wellington situation for a very long time, and then

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Speaker 1: I eventually was like, Okay, it's kind of a cured

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Speaker 1: salted meat thing. And then after I'd done a lot

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Speaker 1: of a lot of the research already, I was like,

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Speaker 1: oh wait, I see um. So sorry Annie about that

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Speaker 1: accidental April fools. You got me. You know we're in

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Speaker 1: the spirit or in the spirit of this holiday. You

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Speaker 1: really got me. Oh, it's all good. It was so

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Speaker 1: funny though, because I have no idea what this is,

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Speaker 1: and there's so much fraud with it. What could it be? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: Like how is it so big? Like what's going on here?

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Speaker 1: How have I never heard of it, and the other

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Speaker 1: runner up was Parmesan, So I was like, if it's

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Speaker 1: in the same level of parmesan, which I know, I

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Speaker 1: mean I frequently run across in my life. Sure, I'm

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Speaker 1: how could I not know what this is? It turns

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Speaker 1: out I do, I just don't know it by that name.

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Speaker 1: Spelling strikes again usually usually Uh. This is largely not

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Speaker 1: an episode about precio, right, Um, I mean I do

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Speaker 1: love precoot though, oh I do too, although the research

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Speaker 1: has me wondering. Right, yeah. And also I'm like, I'm like,

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Speaker 1: have I ever had actual parma prosciutto? Like is that

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Speaker 1: a thing that I've consumed? I'm not a dent, sure,

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Speaker 1: especially due to some of these some of these issues

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Speaker 1: exactly exactly. Um, it's always something under the name of

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Speaker 1: prosciutto is almost always on my cheeseboard when I do

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Speaker 1: cheese giving. But who knows, a lot of people don't.

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Speaker 1: And uh, and that I suppose brings us to our question.

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Speaker 1: I guess it does pscudo diparma fraud? What is it? Uh? Well? Um, okay, yes,

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Speaker 1: this is not an episode about ham It's not an

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Speaker 1: episode about presciutto, crudo style ham. It's not even really

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Speaker 1: about prestuto di parma, but right rather about fraud surrounding

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Speaker 1: prestuto diparma. Nonetheless, let's let's break some of this down. Okay. Ham,

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Speaker 1: of course, is the catch all term for preserved pork products.

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Speaker 1: Presciuto means ham in Italian. In English, it's come to

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Speaker 1: be used specifically for what they would call an Italian

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Speaker 1: prestudo crudo, which is a type of dry cured ham

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Speaker 1: that's neither cooked nor smoked. Um. It's a It's a

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Speaker 1: leg of pork that's just salt cured, then washed and

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Speaker 1: hung to dry, usually for quite a while, over a year. UM.

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Speaker 1: It's usually served in very thin slices like paper thin

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Speaker 1: translucent um, often as an appetizer UH, sometimes wrapped around

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Speaker 1: a piece of like melon, or it can be a

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Speaker 1: topping for pastas or pizzas or sandwiches. It can be

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Speaker 1: wrapped around other meats and then cooked um, et cetera.

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Speaker 1: It's tender and salty and nutty and batty and has

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Speaker 1: like a tiny bit of chew but almost melts in

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Speaker 1: your mouth. Oh so good. Um. Okay. Pstudo di parma

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Speaker 1: means ham of parma. UM. It's prestido crudo that comes

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Speaker 1: from Parma, which is a province and a city in

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Speaker 1: northern Italy that is famous for its prestido crudo um

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Speaker 1: and for another food product, Parmesano roggiano cheese um. The

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Speaker 1: two industries co developed over time, and the pigs destined

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Speaker 1: for Parma ham are often fed diets supplemented with the

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Speaker 1: way left over from when parmesan cheese is made okay um.

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Speaker 1: There are also a number of other things about the

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Speaker 1: tera wir or like the entire micro climate really of

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Speaker 1: Parma that are considered to contribute to the presciuto that's

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Speaker 1: made there. Okay Now, under European Union law, prescudo di

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Speaker 1: Parma is a protected denomination of origin, which means that

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Speaker 1: to earn the right to label your product as such,

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Speaker 1: it has to meet a number of production end quality standards.

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Speaker 1: You start with the pigs um. They have to be

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Speaker 1: one of three breeds. They have to be born and

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Speaker 1: raised in one of ten particular regions in Italy, fed

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Speaker 1: on a particular diet, grown to a particular age, and

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Speaker 1: wait a minimum um slaughtered at a certified butcher. The

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Speaker 1: cuts to be used are carefully selected for size, and quality.

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Speaker 1: They have to be salted and rested in this particular

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Speaker 1: way for a particular number of days. They're shaped by

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Speaker 1: being beaten with wooden bats. They're sealed on the cut

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Speaker 1: end with this salt pepper pork fat rub and then

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Speaker 1: matured in these aging cellers that meet particular specifications for

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Speaker 1: a specific amount of time. It's nine intricate steps in

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Speaker 1: all um. When they're done, the Consortium of Purshudo di

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Speaker 1: Parma sends an inspector who takes They take this long

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Speaker 1: needle that's made of horse bone, and they pierced the

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Speaker 1: ham in five places and then smell the needle each

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Speaker 1: time for any signs of spoilage or off it not

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Speaker 1: being aged enough yet, or of it not being uniformly matured. Wow,

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Speaker 1: the Consortium of Sudo Diparma since the inspector with a

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Speaker 1: horse to smell. Oh my goodness, what a job. Yeah, okay,

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Speaker 1: So if if this inspector gives you the all clear, um,

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Speaker 1: then and only then can you brand your ham with

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Speaker 1: the Parma p d O symbol um, which is this

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Speaker 1: this oval that has the word Parma inside it and

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Speaker 1: has a five pointed crown on the top of the oval.

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Speaker 1: Okay um. This brand is produced with a metal fire

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Speaker 1: branding machine um U. The consortium produces a new set

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Speaker 1: of brands every two years with a a print tiny

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Speaker 1: flaw in the design somewhere that experts can look for

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Speaker 1: to tell a counterfeit ham from a real one. They

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Speaker 1: furthermore send a fresh set of these brands UH two

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Speaker 1: producers every three months to make sure that the design

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Speaker 1: stays sharp. Wow, dang right, I love this, I love

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Speaker 1: all of this okay uh and uh. And I'll note

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Speaker 1: here that like okay, prisciutto is not a protected word

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Speaker 1: um and depending on the labeling laws in your area,

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Speaker 1: you can call any dry cured ham of the style presciuto.

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Speaker 1: The diparma part is what's specific um. And there are

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Speaker 1: other protected origins and production processes of prisciuto around Italy UM,

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Speaker 1: but deparma is the most well known. Add a note

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Speaker 1: to the note, um. Of course, because this is an

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Speaker 1: agricultural product, there's still a variation in a prescio to partma,

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Speaker 1: from producer to producer, and even from ham to ham. UM.

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Speaker 1: The p d O is a set of minimum quality requirements. Yes,

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Speaker 1: m m m mmm um, Well what about the nutrition Um,

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Speaker 1: don't eat fraud. I feel like I have though in

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Speaker 1: my life without knowing he might have eaten something fraudulent. Um.

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Speaker 1: I don't think you ate fraud unless that's a very

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Speaker 1: like phantom tollbooth kind of thing, like you can't. Yeah, oh,

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Speaker 1: I loved that book. You know, for some reason what

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Speaker 1: comes to mind, And this is such a like spoiled

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Speaker 1: child point of view. But my mom I found out

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Speaker 1: she'd been lying to me that we weren't eating fruit loops,

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Speaker 1: eating something else, and she just the fruit loops and

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Speaker 1: I was outraged. I feel like that's eating fraud. There

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Speaker 1: was eating up the fraudulent fruit loops, but also fraud

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Speaker 1: was being you know, fraud was being served up and

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Speaker 1: you swallowed it. Yeah. And actually the non fruit loop

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Speaker 1: ones I think tasted better, but in that child way. No,

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Speaker 1: you're like I was promised to can sam I will

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Speaker 1: stand for nothing less? Yeah? Yes, well, uh, we do

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Speaker 1: have some numbers for you on this one. Gosh, we do. Yes.

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Speaker 1: So from Politico quote, Italy had of the e use

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Speaker 1: geographical Indications on food in which accounted for thirty eight

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Speaker 1: percent of the blocks total sales of g I products.

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Speaker 1: So Italy is a big player in this. Another number

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Speaker 1: from that same article, geographically protected items sell for twice

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Speaker 1: as much as the next competitor, and sales of parm

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Speaker 1: ma ham are because I never changed it. I was

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Speaker 1: just like, i'll fix it later, and I never did

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Speaker 1: so Parma appreshoot a pharma generate about seven fifty million

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Speaker 1: euros a year. That's a little under nine hundred million dollars. Yes,

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Speaker 1: overse seventy nine million packs were produced in t and

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Speaker 1: the UK is the largest buyer of pre sliced packs.

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Speaker 1: So yes, it is a big business and as such

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Speaker 1: attracts a lot of fraud. According to one article I read,

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Speaker 1: food fraud cost Italy's economy billions um. That same source

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Speaker 1: cited a number from the Italian Fraud Squad, which is

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Speaker 1: a thing, yes, asserting that in the value of seizures

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Speaker 1: in the fraudulent meat market amounted to one forty three

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Speaker 1: point seven million euros um. One estimate suggests that right

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Speaker 1: now about two out of three hand products old in

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Speaker 1: Italy come from Dutch, French, German or Spanish pigs, which

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Speaker 1: again going back to that to like formal definition doesn't count.

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Speaker 1: The consortium pays about seven and fifty thousand dollars u

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Speaker 1: S dollars in legal fees a year to protect their product. Um,

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Speaker 1: and this really is a huge deal. Of the eight

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Speaker 1: million pigs raised in Italy each year, seventy of their

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Speaker 1: meat goes to one or more of the thirty six

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Speaker 1: cured meats with the much sought after EU certified quality

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Speaker 1: UH and those region labels. Um. These meats contribute about

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Speaker 1: twenty billion euros to the Italian economy annually. Hoofed up. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: big deal. Yes, and this this also did make me

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Speaker 1: really really really want to do like a wider appreciat

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Speaker 1: oh episode absolutely yeah, um for forthcoming at some point, Yes,

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Speaker 1: at some point. But in the meantime we've got plenty

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Speaker 1: of ground to cover when it comes to just the

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Speaker 1: fraud aspect. Yes, and we are going to get into

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Speaker 1: that history as soon as we get back from a

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Speaker 1: quick break for a word from our sponsors, and we're back,

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Speaker 1: Thank you sponsor, Yes, thank you. So first things first,

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Speaker 1: there is a long history of food fraud. Oh. And

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Speaker 1: we've talked about several cases, um, perhaps not specifically like

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Speaker 1: this one, but like in Cheddar, we talked about it.

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Speaker 1: So we've touched on a few examples in past episodes. Um,

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Speaker 1: there also is a long history of uh parma ham

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Speaker 1: are kind of like salted or cured and or cured him. Um.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, we're not going to go into that too

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Speaker 1: deeply today. UM. We're honing in specifically on the fraud. Yes, yes,

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Speaker 1: but just for some context. Kato the Elder wrote about

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Speaker 1: air cured hands he tasted in Perma and their extraordinary

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Speaker 1: flavor in two BC. So yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, the

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Speaker 1: product has been around for a minute. UM. Okay, skipping

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Speaker 1: pretty far ahead. UM. Italy established its system of Denomination

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Speaker 1: of Controlled Origin or d o C in nineteen sixty three. UM.

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Speaker 1: And this was part of a larger effort around Europe

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Speaker 1: at the time to establish a framework for the international

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Speaker 1: economy and to help businesses thrive. UM. The the European

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Speaker 1: Economic Community was formed just a few years earlier. Italy

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Speaker 1: based their d o C laws on the French AOC.

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Speaker 1: And Yeah. The idea was to specify quality standards for

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Speaker 1: food and drink products, UM, including how and where they're

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Speaker 1: made and how to label them. It's it's part marketing,

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Speaker 1: part like preservation of traditional methods of production, and part

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Speaker 1: protection for these for these hard working producers to not

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Speaker 1: have their their time and care and and profits undercut

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Speaker 1: by by any old anybody who decides to stamp Parma

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Speaker 1: on a ham right. That same year, nine sixty three,

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Speaker 1: the Consortium of Presciuto di Parma formed, and an independent

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Speaker 1: collective of twenty three local producers who UM, seeing all

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Speaker 1: this happening, wanted to set down their own ground rules.

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Speaker 1: This was a voluntary formation UM. The first d o

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Speaker 1: C laws regarding Presiuto di Parma were passed in Italy

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Speaker 1: in nineteen seventy. In night the government officially charged the

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Speaker 1: consortium with controlling their product in The consortium added to

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Speaker 1: their to their to their brand UM that that Parma

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Speaker 1: Crown brand Yeah mark with the initials of the production plant,

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Speaker 1: so that you have more UM, more specific evidence of

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Speaker 1: where a product came from hand came from UM. The

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Speaker 1: DFC system got wrapped into the European Unions Protected Denomination

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Speaker 1: of Origin or PDO system, and that brings us to

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Speaker 1: the laws as they currently stand and and and the

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Speaker 1: fraud that occurs under them. Yes, indeed, because the geographical

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Speaker 1: designation is huge in terms of protecting a product's identity

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Speaker 1: the place of origin, the producers and as mentioned in

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Speaker 1: boosting profits. I like that you said, it's also a

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Speaker 1: marketing thing. But also for consumers. If you're going to

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Speaker 1: pay the sort of premium price for some you want

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Speaker 1: to know, Okay, this is the real deal, right. Um.

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Speaker 1: So the organizations in charge of these designations, including those

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Speaker 1: of Pursuded Diparma, have had some success in shutting down

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Speaker 1: producers not adhering to these guidelines that we've laid out. UM.

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Speaker 1: For example, in two thousand three, the consortium behind Pursuited

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Speaker 1: diparma successfully one a case against a UK supermarket UM

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Speaker 1: selling this product that was not sliced in an approved

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Speaker 1: region in Italy as per the established EU standards. I

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Speaker 1: know it is no, it's great though. I anyway, UM,

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Speaker 1: other cases have been outright shocking in the magnitude of

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Speaker 1: fraud going on in this pursuited deparma world, and for

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Speaker 1: like how long it's been going on? Yes, So in

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Speaker 1: seventeen investigators started looking into what was going on in

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Speaker 1: the pursuited deparma world, specifically in Italy. UM prosecutors discovered

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Speaker 1: that breeders and slaughterhouse owners in Italy were skirting the

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Speaker 1: pursuited deparma rules. By importing high quality pig sperm from

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Speaker 1: outside in order to breed leaner breeds of pigs. Four

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Speaker 1: pursuited diparma in order to get more meat out of

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Speaker 1: each pig and increase profits. So just like take all,

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Speaker 1: take all of that in they were illegally importing pig

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Speaker 1: sperm in order to to tweak their stock. Yes, and

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Speaker 1: this of course was in direct defiance to the rules

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Speaker 1: set up around purtuted diparma um, decreating that pigs used

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Speaker 1: for this product had to be male pigs of an

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Speaker 1: entirely Italian bloodline. Mm hmmm. So in Italy's food specialist police,

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Speaker 1: which also yes exists, UH, sent dozens of officers to

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Speaker 1: investigate thirty farms and slaughterhouses in northern Italy, and they

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Speaker 1: collected hundreds of DNA samples from the pigs used for

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Speaker 1: this ham. The investigators suspected that the pig stock had

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Speaker 1: been inseminated with genetically enhanced sea men from the Danish

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Speaker 1: Druk pig, which is yes, a pig not from one

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Speaker 1: of the Italian regions that the raw material for partrugo

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Speaker 1: diparma must originate according to these established rules. Al right, um.

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Speaker 1: And another thing I didn't know exist. In March of

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Speaker 1: the same year, the Danish Pig Research Center, which is

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Speaker 1: a renowned research center specializing in pig genetics, contacted Italian

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Speaker 1: officials about their concerns around the fraud and how it

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Speaker 1: might be related to sperm supplied from an Italian firm,

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Speaker 1: Like can you imagine this email? Like, hope this email

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Speaker 1: finds you. Well, this might sound strange, but um and

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Speaker 1: actually the Italian authorities in question responded with, quote, the

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Speaker 1: investigation didn't involve any public health concerns. Uh. And this

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Speaker 1: isn't according to the Danish officials, who also claimed that

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Speaker 1: they would speak out against quote any business that misuses

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Speaker 1: our brand and or doesn't operate within the law. So

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Speaker 1: this Danish people at this big research center, this Danish

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Speaker 1: big research center sent this email. According to them, response

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Speaker 1: they got back from Italian authorities was like no, it's fine.

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Speaker 1: Uh and they said, is not gonna He said, well,

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Speaker 1: it's not fine and we're not going to allow it. Yeah. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: It was this huge kerfuffle though, um and um and

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Speaker 1: like kind of like called into question the the veracity

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Speaker 1: of the entire labeling system in Italy. Yeah, yeah, absolutely,

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Speaker 1: um and it gets worse because as a part of

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Speaker 1: this whole thing, Animal Writes groups snuck into a farm

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Speaker 1: in northern Italy that produced Pursued Diparma UM and other

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Speaker 1: hands like related similar meats, and they placed cameras and

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Speaker 1: secretly recorded inside this farm for six months. They gathered

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Speaker 1: all of this evidence of how terribly the pigs were

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Speaker 1: being treated to produce a meat that they were selling

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Speaker 1: as high quality. Was sort of that understanding that the

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Speaker 1: pigs that went into it were taking care of the

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Speaker 1: fed well and then selling it at that higher price.

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Speaker 1: That understanding. Yes, Um, and this is not the only

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Speaker 1: case of fraud when it comes to Pursue a Diparma.

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Speaker 1: Stepping back a bit to when authorities rated an Italian

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Speaker 1: bunker that was filled with Polish ham that was being

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Speaker 1: repackaged and labeled with counterfeit labels from Italian companies, including

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Speaker 1: Pursuit a Diparma. During the raid, the police confiscated all

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Speaker 1: kinds of products as evidence, including fridges, knives, and hairnets.

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Speaker 1: And stepping back even further, in two thousand seven, more

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Speaker 1: than one thousand hams were seized in Italian warehouses and

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Speaker 1: stores across the country, and authorities suspected that many others

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Speaker 1: had been sent to deboning plants in other countries to

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Speaker 1: be labeled as d OPD. Get this label um of

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Speaker 1: origin of protected origin. Yeah, when they were not when

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Speaker 1: they were not in Pursuto department being a part of

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Speaker 1: that whole thing. Yeah. Um. Following UM all of these,

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Speaker 1: all of these scandals, and specifically the genetic scandal UM.

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Speaker 1: In nineteen, the Consortium updated their guidelines for Presuto Department

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Speaker 1: production UM with UH, with some with some just some

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Speaker 1: general stuff about the product, like like longer minimum maturation

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Speaker 1: periods UM, a little bit of elbow room for new

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Speaker 1: technologies and production, especially with an eye towards sustainability measures. UM. Also,

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Speaker 1: they made it mandatory to take genetic samples of the

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Speaker 1: male pigs in the production system for Partment Presuto so

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Speaker 1: that they can do paternity tests to help track fraud.

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Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, this is like Mari for pigs. Yes, yes,

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Speaker 1: I am I really like okay, like like fraud, fraud

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Speaker 1: is very serious, like people's livelihoods are at steak. Also,

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Speaker 1: this is precisely the kind of true crime story that

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Speaker 1: I find irresistibly delicious. All right, this is so fun

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Speaker 1: to read about. I'm like Oh heck, y'all have hand police.

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Speaker 1: I love it. Yeah, yeah, the hand police. Um. I

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Speaker 1: think I made this joke earlier because I was telling

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Speaker 1: somebody about how you kind of semi accidentally pranked me.

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Speaker 1: I made an off handed joke about like it's all

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Speaker 1: Hams on deck. Oh. I think like we're already giving

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Speaker 1: this food fraud true crime show a lot of material. Um,

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Speaker 1: I'm just saying we're we're waiting. We've you know, done

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Speaker 1: our part, and I'm happy. I'd be happy to see it. Also,

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Speaker 1: like it's very It's always fun to think about somebody

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Speaker 1: because I don't know if you encounter this, I imagine

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Speaker 1: you do. But a lot of times when I tell

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Speaker 1: people what I do, there's still the air of like

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Speaker 1: really and I think cam police maybe not maybe not

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Speaker 1: like listeners let us know, But to me, that seems

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Speaker 1: like a job that if I heard somebody did it,

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Speaker 1: I'd be like, You've got to explain more on you

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Speaker 1: be like I'm on a need. I'm gonna need you

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Speaker 1: to break that down for me. Yeah. Uh yeah, I

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Speaker 1: mean I don't write no absolutely. Um yeah, and well

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Speaker 1: I guess I guess like like I'm definitely only in

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Speaker 1: my personal life. Aside from this kind of reading, I'm

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Speaker 1: pretty far removed from the daily necessities of agriculture, and

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Speaker 1: you know, which is part of why I love doing

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Speaker 1: the show, because I think it's really important for us

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00:27:13,160 --> 00:27:14,800
Speaker 1: all to u to have in the back of our

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Speaker 1: minds when we're eating and and buying the food that

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Speaker 1: we are going to eat. Um. But but yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I don't know. Also with podcasting, though, like I have

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Speaker 1: to explain it to like myself every day, Like I'm like,

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Speaker 1: this is a very confusing thing that we do. I'll

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Speaker 1: be having like a serious life conversation with my roommates

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00:27:38,000 --> 00:27:41,320
Speaker 1: and then I'm just like, Okay, well I really need

386
00:27:41,359 --> 00:27:51,040
Speaker 1: to go research mangoes, so we'll have to put I

387
00:27:51,080 --> 00:27:55,240
Speaker 1: need to look into these pigs fraternity to us. I'm

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Speaker 1: gonna need to read about some carbon nanotubes being applied

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00:27:58,280 --> 00:28:03,520
Speaker 1: to spinach leaves. So yeah, for email purposes. So I'm

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00:28:03,520 --> 00:28:05,360
Speaker 1: going to be back with you in a couple of hours.

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Speaker 1: People are giving us a sight I like, sure, no

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Speaker 1: for reals though. Also there's there's definitely a like pig

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Speaker 1: I am not your father joking here, Oh oh no, oh, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I'm sure it's been made it's not original ground, but

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Speaker 1: I feel like I had to be said yeah, well, no,

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Speaker 1: thank thanks, thanks. I'm looking out for everybody, is ultimately

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Speaker 1: my when it comes to puns and star wars and

398
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Speaker 1: star war responds particularly, Oh we really are we really

399
00:28:50,760 --> 00:28:53,640
Speaker 1: are all looking out for each other. Um oh oh

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00:28:53,720 --> 00:28:57,040
Speaker 1: heck Okay. I didn't work this in naturally into the conversation,

401
00:28:57,080 --> 00:29:00,440
Speaker 1: but I wanted to specify before and I think this

402
00:29:00,520 --> 00:29:03,520
Speaker 1: is the last thing we have to say about uh

403
00:29:03,720 --> 00:29:09,560
Speaker 1: parma presido fraud um. The reason that they use that

404
00:29:09,800 --> 00:29:14,800
Speaker 1: horsebone needle I didn't I didn't say earlier. The reason

405
00:29:14,840 --> 00:29:17,280
Speaker 1: they use it is because it's a very porous material

406
00:29:17,960 --> 00:29:21,280
Speaker 1: um and so it uh it absorbs or I guess

407
00:29:21,280 --> 00:29:24,000
Speaker 1: ads orbs if you're being technical about it. Um sent

408
00:29:24,640 --> 00:29:28,680
Speaker 1: compounds very quickly and then releases them very quickly, so

409
00:29:28,800 --> 00:29:31,200
Speaker 1: you can work with it in a rapid manner to

410
00:29:31,400 --> 00:29:37,040
Speaker 1: get these scent tests from the different sections of the ham,

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00:29:37,080 --> 00:29:41,360
Speaker 1: which is fascinating. And also, as I told Lauren earlier,

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Speaker 1: like how did someone arrive at this? I know the

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Speaker 1: perfect solution horsebone needle. Ah, Yes, of course, because it's

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Speaker 1: it sounds like Kramer had to have slid into the

415
00:29:58,520 --> 00:30:07,080
Speaker 1: room deliver this proposal. It does oh Seinfeld reference, I

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00:30:07,240 --> 00:30:11,080
Speaker 1: loved um. Yes, but that is why we are not

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Speaker 1: We are not the ones. No we I am. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I'm not creative enough nor metal enough to have proposed

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00:30:20,480 --> 00:30:25,080
Speaker 1: this for I feel like you've got some creative solutions.

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00:30:25,080 --> 00:30:28,280
Speaker 1: I think between us, you know, maybe not horsephone level. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I've definitely done some things that we're feel pretty creative.

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00:30:36,720 --> 00:30:43,600
Speaker 1: I've definitely done some things. Yep, that's all we need

423
00:30:43,640 --> 00:30:50,920
Speaker 1: to say. Yes, well, okay, that is what we have

424
00:30:51,080 --> 00:30:57,280
Speaker 1: to say. Shoot deparma fraud um. But we do have

425
00:30:57,280 --> 00:31:00,320
Speaker 1: some listener mail for you. We do, and we'll get

426
00:31:00,320 --> 00:31:01,920
Speaker 1: into that after one more quick break for a word

427
00:31:01,920 --> 00:31:13,840
Speaker 1: from our sponsor. We're back. Thank you sponsored, Yes, thank you,

428
00:31:14,360 --> 00:31:23,800
Speaker 1: and we're back with isn't that the like CS? I like? No,

429
00:31:23,920 --> 00:31:33,600
Speaker 1: it's n C, I s goes. I'm not sure. Okay,

430
00:31:34,240 --> 00:31:38,200
Speaker 1: I'll take it. I'll except that it is. I feel

431
00:31:38,240 --> 00:31:41,760
Speaker 1: like it's a running joke. Whenever you do the like Jack,

432
00:31:42,080 --> 00:31:44,880
Speaker 1: you put the sunglasses on and it's nighttime, then they

433
00:31:44,920 --> 00:31:48,280
Speaker 1: cut to that sound, So listeners let us know. Maybe

434
00:31:48,280 --> 00:31:50,640
Speaker 1: I'm way off, but it's at least a running joke

435
00:31:50,720 --> 00:31:54,840
Speaker 1: in my world. That doesn't involve actually watching watching that show.

436
00:31:56,680 --> 00:32:00,160
Speaker 1: I'm only vaguely aware through references on other show is

437
00:32:00,240 --> 00:32:04,280
Speaker 1: to that show that that's a thing. Exactly right. Well,

438
00:32:04,320 --> 00:32:10,200
Speaker 1: this is very important information listeners. This is Yeah, you're welcome. Yes, yes,

439
00:32:10,480 --> 00:32:15,760
Speaker 1: I would love to get some male about that. Look,

440
00:32:15,840 --> 00:32:20,200
Speaker 1: that's supernatural. Segment was really funny. Okay, excellent, so good.

441
00:32:20,240 --> 00:32:25,920
Speaker 1: The whole episode is so good anyway, So this one's

442
00:32:25,960 --> 00:32:27,880
Speaker 1: gonna be more fun with pronunciation, but I'm going to

443
00:32:27,960 --> 00:32:32,520
Speaker 1: give it a go. Okay, okay, uh Nive wrote, thanks

444
00:32:32,520 --> 00:32:35,480
Speaker 1: for that really interesting episode about black pudding. Black and

445
00:32:35,520 --> 00:32:38,280
Speaker 1: white pudding continue to be really popular here in Ireland,

446
00:32:38,360 --> 00:32:40,760
Speaker 1: but in the last couple of years here alternatives to

447
00:32:40,800 --> 00:32:43,520
Speaker 1: the traditional black and white puddings have become more widely available,

448
00:32:43,560 --> 00:32:46,760
Speaker 1: including gluten free and vegan options in addition to the

449
00:32:46,760 --> 00:32:51,880
Speaker 1: traditional blood puddings. However, the more interesting version of blood

450
00:32:51,880 --> 00:32:55,080
Speaker 1: pudding is from my home city Cork, Ireland, which has

451
00:32:55,120 --> 00:32:58,600
Speaker 1: a hyperlocal, very traditional kind of disappearing variant called drishen.

452
00:32:58,800 --> 00:33:02,320
Speaker 1: In addition to the stand black pudding. UM and NIV

453
00:33:02,400 --> 00:33:05,960
Speaker 1: was very helpful and gave a pronunciation note. I hope

454
00:33:06,000 --> 00:33:11,440
Speaker 1: that I managed it somewhat yes, um, he continues, I

455
00:33:11,480 --> 00:33:14,120
Speaker 1: haven't had drishin since I was little. The texture is

456
00:33:14,240 --> 00:33:17,160
Speaker 1: very different to black pudding. The recipe includes milk slash cream,

457
00:33:17,200 --> 00:33:19,600
Speaker 1: and it's a lot more jelly like than the crumbly

458
00:33:19,680 --> 00:33:23,080
Speaker 1: black pudding people are used to. Machine is now only

459
00:33:23,120 --> 00:33:25,920
Speaker 1: produced by one very specialized butcher who has had a

460
00:33:25,960 --> 00:33:28,720
Speaker 1: stall in the city market since the early nineteen hundreds,

461
00:33:28,920 --> 00:33:33,320
Speaker 1: specializing in tripe, cow stomach and grain. I remember going

462
00:33:33,360 --> 00:33:35,560
Speaker 1: into town on weekends in the nineteen eighties with my

463
00:33:35,640 --> 00:33:38,360
Speaker 1: mother and going to that stall in the market, the

464
00:33:38,440 --> 00:33:41,640
Speaker 1: same stall her mother went to. The little stall still

465
00:33:41,680 --> 00:33:44,800
Speaker 1: looks the same with its big, old fashioned hanging weighing scales,

466
00:33:44,880 --> 00:33:48,120
Speaker 1: and continues to trade through changing times and through COVID.

467
00:33:49,320 --> 00:33:51,600
Speaker 1: The current owner was quoted in the local newspaper at

468
00:33:51,600 --> 00:33:54,680
Speaker 1: the end of one talking about his family's legacy as

469
00:33:54,760 --> 00:33:57,760
Speaker 1: quote one of the oldest and most idiosyncratic cultural food

470
00:33:57,840 --> 00:34:01,840
Speaker 1: legacies in the city. Quote. There's not much interestine, really,

471
00:34:01,920 --> 00:34:04,320
Speaker 1: it's just blood and salt mixed together in a casing.

472
00:34:04,680 --> 00:34:07,160
Speaker 1: Making machine is more of an art than a recipe.

473
00:34:07,400 --> 00:34:09,480
Speaker 1: I make it myself. I'm the only fellow in the

474
00:34:09,520 --> 00:34:12,759
Speaker 1: world making sine. I'd say I do feel a responsibility

475
00:34:12,800 --> 00:34:14,600
Speaker 1: to keep making it because I like to keep the

476
00:34:14,640 --> 00:34:17,680
Speaker 1: family tradition going. We've been renowned in Cork for it

477
00:34:17,719 --> 00:34:19,880
Speaker 1: for so long, so yes, it is important for me

478
00:34:19,920 --> 00:34:22,879
Speaker 1: to keep it going as long as I can. Oh.

479
00:34:23,480 --> 00:34:26,160
Speaker 1: I love so much of this. I love we love

480
00:34:26,239 --> 00:34:30,280
Speaker 1: hyperlocal things we've talked about before. I love this idea

481
00:34:30,400 --> 00:34:32,799
Speaker 1: that you went with your mother to that stall, and

482
00:34:33,239 --> 00:34:36,840
Speaker 1: your mother presumably went with her mother to that stall.

483
00:34:36,920 --> 00:34:39,400
Speaker 1: That it's kind of this family tradition, as the owner

484
00:34:39,440 --> 00:34:41,239
Speaker 1: is talking about, like they've been there so long, and

485
00:34:41,280 --> 00:34:43,239
Speaker 1: we want to keep this tradition going, and it is

486
00:34:43,280 --> 00:34:46,960
Speaker 1: important for people to come and try this thing where

487
00:34:46,960 --> 00:34:49,279
Speaker 1: they can't get it anywhere else. And the kind of

488
00:34:49,320 --> 00:34:54,400
Speaker 1: memories and connections. Yeah, and then right, the not only nostalgia,

489
00:34:54,440 --> 00:34:57,200
Speaker 1: but right that sense of time that you get and

490
00:34:57,480 --> 00:35:03,400
Speaker 1: O all through sausage. Yes, and I hope I didn't

491
00:35:03,400 --> 00:35:08,440
Speaker 1: but your the pronunciation. I know it's kind of switching

492
00:35:08,520 --> 00:35:14,360
Speaker 1: back and forth between some of them, but yes, here's hoping, solid, solid,

493
00:35:14,400 --> 00:35:19,320
Speaker 1: solid attempt at any rate. Megan wrote, my friend introduced

494
00:35:19,360 --> 00:35:21,319
Speaker 1: me to the Savor podcast about a year ago, and

495
00:35:21,360 --> 00:35:23,799
Speaker 1: I've been working my way through each episode in order.

496
00:35:23,880 --> 00:35:27,640
Speaker 1: Since your show brings me great joy when driving, working out, baking,

497
00:35:27,680 --> 00:35:30,960
Speaker 1: and cleading my aquarium. Oh yeah, that's when I listen

498
00:35:31,000 --> 00:35:34,760
Speaker 1: to podcasts anyway, Um they continue. Um. Plus, it provides

499
00:35:34,800 --> 00:35:36,440
Speaker 1: me with plenty of fun facts to share with the

500
00:35:36,480 --> 00:35:39,680
Speaker 1: executive chef and sous chef at work. My boyfriend and

501
00:35:39,719 --> 00:35:41,520
Speaker 1: I were very excited to see that you had a

502
00:35:41,520 --> 00:35:44,360
Speaker 1: bagel episode, as he's a personal trainer and one of

503
00:35:44,360 --> 00:35:48,200
Speaker 1: his clients just so happens to be Marvin Lender. Yes,

504
00:35:48,480 --> 00:35:51,400
Speaker 1: that Lender. I was just thrilled to hear that the

505
00:35:51,440 --> 00:35:53,919
Speaker 1: name appeared in the bagel episode. Him and his wife

506
00:35:53,960 --> 00:35:56,879
Speaker 1: are very sweet and surprisingly do not eat as many

507
00:35:56,880 --> 00:36:06,640
Speaker 1: bagels as you would think. Oh that is that's always fascinating.

508
00:36:06,880 --> 00:36:09,680
Speaker 1: I'm I'm so tickled every single time that we learned

509
00:36:09,760 --> 00:36:13,279
Speaker 1: that these brand names were yeah like some some dude

510
00:36:13,280 --> 00:36:18,319
Speaker 1: at some point. Yeah, yeah, And it's interesting to hear

511
00:36:18,480 --> 00:36:22,200
Speaker 1: these connections that, yeah, your listeners are so so cool,

512
00:36:23,719 --> 00:36:27,879
Speaker 1: then you have these but I love that the guy

513
00:36:28,120 --> 00:36:33,000
Speaker 1: doesn't really eat that many. I get it though, you know, sometimes,

514
00:36:33,520 --> 00:36:36,400
Speaker 1: especially like I went through this period where not that

515
00:36:36,440 --> 00:36:38,759
Speaker 1: I'm on the same level, but I was making the

516
00:36:39,000 --> 00:36:41,160
Speaker 1: one type of cookies over and over again because everybody

517
00:36:41,239 --> 00:36:44,240
Speaker 1: loved them and I loved them too. They're really amazing,

518
00:36:44,320 --> 00:36:48,200
Speaker 1: and now I'm like, every time somebody requests them, it's

519
00:36:48,040 --> 00:36:52,399
Speaker 1: a chore not to roll my eyes, and yeah, it's

520
00:36:52,800 --> 00:36:55,439
Speaker 1: kind of a pain. And then yeah, I'm probably gonna

521
00:36:55,480 --> 00:36:56,960
Speaker 1: eat too many of them, and I'm gonna taste the

522
00:36:57,000 --> 00:36:59,000
Speaker 1: batter and then I'm gonna feel my stomach is gonna

523
00:36:59,040 --> 00:37:04,640
Speaker 1: be all twitter stood up sugar. Yeah. Yeah. And I

524
00:37:04,680 --> 00:37:07,879
Speaker 1: find that with baking specifically, by the time I'm done

525
00:37:08,080 --> 00:37:11,800
Speaker 1: producing a baked good, I want nothing to do with it. Yeah. Yeah,

526
00:37:12,360 --> 00:37:14,640
Speaker 1: I'm the same. It's pretty rare. Like sometimes I want

527
00:37:14,640 --> 00:37:17,719
Speaker 1: like a little taste and then that is it. Yeah,

528
00:37:17,760 --> 00:37:19,719
Speaker 1: I don't want this in my orbit anymore. I don't

529
00:37:19,719 --> 00:37:21,319
Speaker 1: want to smell it. I don't want to look at it.

530
00:37:21,480 --> 00:37:27,719
Speaker 1: Get out of my life. Yeah. Um, so we get

531
00:37:27,760 --> 00:37:32,160
Speaker 1: it totally to hear they're they're very nice. Yes, oh

532
00:37:32,200 --> 00:37:35,680
Speaker 1: goodness always yes, um Well, thanks to both of these

533
00:37:35,719 --> 00:37:37,480
Speaker 1: listeners for writing. If you would like to write to us,

534
00:37:37,560 --> 00:37:39,760
Speaker 1: we would love to hear from you. Um Our email

535
00:37:39,800 --> 00:37:42,480
Speaker 1: is Hello at saver pod dot com. We are also

536
00:37:42,560 --> 00:37:45,400
Speaker 1: on social media. You can find us on Twitter, Facebook

537
00:37:45,400 --> 00:37:48,239
Speaker 1: and Instagram. Our handle at all three places is at

538
00:37:48,239 --> 00:37:51,279
Speaker 1: Saver pod and yes we do hope to hear from you.

539
00:37:51,520 --> 00:37:54,400
Speaker 1: Um Saver is production of iHeart Radio. For more podcasts

540
00:37:54,480 --> 00:37:57,080
Speaker 1: my Heart Radio, you can visit the I Heart Radio app,

541
00:37:57,160 --> 00:38:00,960
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favor rich shows.

542
00:38:00,960 --> 00:38:03,880
Speaker 1: Thanks as always to our super producers Dylan Bagan and

543
00:38:03,880 --> 00:38:06,239
Speaker 1: Andrew Howard. Thanks to you for listening, and we hope

544
00:38:06,280 --> 00:38:08,840
Speaker 1: that lots more good things are coming your way. H