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Speaker 1: Get in touch with technology with tex Stuff from com Sis. Everyone.

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Speaker 1: Welcome to tech Stuff. I'm Jonathan Strickland, and today in

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Speaker 1: the studio, I am joined by a special guest host,

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Speaker 1: Chuck Bryant Chuff. Welcome to Text Stuff, Jonathan. Hi, Chuck Strickland.

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Speaker 1: That's weird calling you Jonathan. Yeah, that's fine, call me Strickland.

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Speaker 1: Josh called me strict, so you might as well keep

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Speaker 1: it going. Um now. I Chuck, of course, is one

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Speaker 1: of the hosts of Stuff you should know, and Josh

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Speaker 1: is the other host. We had him on earlier with

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Speaker 1: the Humanoid Robot episode. It went well, it went well great.

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Speaker 1: You know, Josh had to sit there and and wait

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Speaker 1: until I'd let him talk, and I would let him

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Speaker 1: and then he would he would talk. It was great.

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Speaker 1: I think I may fall into this role a little easier. Well.

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Speaker 1: The nice thing is that, you know, I like to

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Speaker 1: let my guests kind of pick a topic if they

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Speaker 1: if they prefer I mean, if they don't, if they

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Speaker 1: want me to pick one, I'm happy to. But I

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Speaker 1: gave you that that option, and you came back with

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Speaker 1: one of my favorite stories period, not just in tech

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Speaker 1: just it's just one of those cool weird things that

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Speaker 1: have happened, and I do not want to steal thunder.

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Speaker 1: All I wanna ask you is, Chuck, if you were

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Speaker 1: in Chicago on November twenty and you were watching h

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Speaker 1: w g N at nine pm because you you want

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Speaker 1: to check out the news and it's coming up on

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Speaker 1: the sports, which I know you're a fan of the sports,

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Speaker 1: what happened? Well, I that could have happened because I

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Speaker 1: would have been sixteen at the time. Yeah, you and

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Speaker 1: I are in this age wheelhouse. Yeah, we we actually

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Speaker 1: were alive at this time, and we were we would

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Speaker 1: have been aware of at least the entity that appeared

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Speaker 1: instead of the sports scores um. But yeah, something weird

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Speaker 1: happened at that moment. There was an interruption in normal service. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: what they call a broadcast intrusion, and U like all

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Speaker 1: classic broadcast intrusions, it started with a little grainy, you know,

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Speaker 1: static going on, and they're always a little unsettling when

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Speaker 1: you watch them, even if they're goofy. Yeah, this is

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Speaker 1: something kind of creepy about it. You know, it's out

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Speaker 1: of place. And as soon as something that, especially when

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Speaker 1: it's something as ritualistic as the news, you know that

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Speaker 1: follows a very specific pattern, and when something goes outside

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Speaker 1: that pattern, you know, that upsets our little world balance

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Speaker 1: for a moment. So in this case, the there was,

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Speaker 1: like you said, there was this this disturbance in the force,

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Speaker 1: and a new picture popped up and replaced the sportscaster

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Speaker 1: and it was a guy in a disturbing rubber mass

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Speaker 1: uh huh. And that mask was of a specific eighties icon,

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Speaker 1: which I think a lot of people don't even know

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Speaker 1: who this is anymore, but Max Headroom. Yeah, if if

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Speaker 1: you're a child of the eighties, Max Max Hedroom loomed

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Speaker 1: large for a while. And I know when this intrusion

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Speaker 1: came out, this broadcast intrusion, it seemed like about half

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Speaker 1: the people even knew who he was trying to imitate,

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Speaker 1: and then the other half just had no idea. They

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Speaker 1: thought it was just some weirdo with the mask. Yeah. Well,

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Speaker 1: and part of that was because, uh, the quality of

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Speaker 1: the video was not exactly super high quality. But on

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Speaker 1: top of that, yeah, it's kind of a niche thing,

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Speaker 1: and he was Max Hedroom was used as sort of

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Speaker 1: a spokes thing, I guess, a spokesman for a new coke.

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Speaker 1: Sure that that great move by the Coca Cola company. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: oh man, I remember that well, remember it with Paine? Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: so living living in a land, the whole Coca Cola

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Speaker 1: New Coke thing was. It definitely strikes close to home.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, he um. He was a spokesman for that

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Speaker 1: as well as a kind of a fantasy character who

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Speaker 1: appeared on lots of other stuff. But generally speaking, if

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Speaker 1: you don't know who Max Headroom is, first, just go

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Speaker 1: ahead and do an image search because it'll pop right up.

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Speaker 1: But it's a a character that was supposed to look

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Speaker 1: like a digital character, right, It was supposed to like

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Speaker 1: a computer generated image, and it was kind of a

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Speaker 1: guy with a long face and weird, kind of ridged hair.

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Speaker 1: He had always had a dynamic c g I background

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Speaker 1: behind him that looked like kind of just like Neon

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Speaker 1: stripes that were constantly twisting and turning in different ways.

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Speaker 1: And he would stutter, yeah, that digital stutter occasionally and

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Speaker 1: uh would be very kind of snarky and sarcastic, and

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Speaker 1: ultimately got a television series as well as you know

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Speaker 1: two a couple of different televis and series, one of

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Speaker 1: them which was like a talk show, and one of

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Speaker 1: which was more of a like an actual fictional story,

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Speaker 1: like with an arc. Yeah, that one was pretty good. Actually,

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Speaker 1: the original British show, even though it was a lot

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Speaker 1: of American actors, was was pretty cool and definitely ahead

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Speaker 1: of its time as far as you know. The whole

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Speaker 1: idea was that this uh roving reporter was I think

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Speaker 1: Matt Frewer played him as a real dude and his

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Speaker 1: Max Headroom, but he was digitally replaced with this character

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Speaker 1: Max Headroom, and at the time it just seemed really odd.

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Speaker 1: But now when you look back at it and watch it,

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Speaker 1: it's like, man, this show was kind of ahead of this. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it was really prescient. Yeah it was. It also revealed

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Speaker 1: where the name came from. Where Matt Frewer's character, as

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Speaker 1: I recall, is waylaid and the last thing he sees

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Speaker 1: before he loses consciousness is a sign on a on

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Speaker 1: a a wall that's tells what the Max Headroom for.

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Speaker 1: That wall's pretty clad became the character's name. Uh yeah.

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Speaker 1: So the person who appeared on this video was wearing

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Speaker 1: a Max Headroom mask and had this corrugated metal background

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Speaker 1: sort of emulated the digital look. Wore the suit at

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Speaker 1: that Max headroom, more like just a dark suit and

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Speaker 1: tie and um, yeah, this thing was the metal background.

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Speaker 1: It looked like a like a garage door. It was

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Speaker 1: just sort of spinning in the background. Yeah, it was.

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Speaker 1: It was on some sort of gimbal or something. That's

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Speaker 1: what I figured. Yeah, because you can tell it's swinging

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Speaker 1: back and forth, so predictably. It can't be held by somebody.

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Speaker 1: You had to be on some sort of pivot or something,

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Speaker 1: and but it's moving backward and forward, so it kind

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Speaker 1: of mimics that that digital line twisting in the background.

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Speaker 1: And except for one part, there's a part where there's

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Speaker 1: a clear cut in the video. The video itself was

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Speaker 1: about or at least what we've seen is about a

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Speaker 1: minute and twenty two seconds. Yeah. Well, actually, I don't

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Speaker 1: think we differentiated. There were two videos, two intrusions. The

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Speaker 1: first one was short and had no audio and was

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Speaker 1: on w g N. And then about two hours later

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Speaker 1: or they hijacked the PBS affiliate and that's where the

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Speaker 1: classic minute and a half, nearly minute and a half

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Speaker 1: with audio, really strange audio comes through. That's right, because

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Speaker 1: that first one, like you said, I'm glad you pointed

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Speaker 1: that out. It was silent. It was the images from

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Speaker 1: the and the image and the audio from w g

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Speaker 1: N was cut, but there was no audio coming out

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Speaker 1: other than that. I think there's like a buzzing noise

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Speaker 1: that came in through the first intrusion, and you saw

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Speaker 1: this this figure just sitting there and kind of rocking

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Speaker 1: back and forth like left and right, which is also disconcerting. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it was definitely like you felt like something is really

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Speaker 1: wrong at that moment. And when it came back, the

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Speaker 1: sportscaster said, you might be wondering what just happened. I know,

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Speaker 1: I am, uh something along those lines. But yes, the

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Speaker 1: second one, you had the audio and it played for

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Speaker 1: the what we what appeared to be the length of

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Speaker 1: the video. The first section had uh, the guy just

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Speaker 1: saying odd things and they were all very Chicago specific. Well,

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Speaker 1: and and sort of slamming w g N because he

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Speaker 1: had slammed the Chuck swart Sky Yeah as a freaking liberal. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: he is a sportscast for w g N. Yeah, and

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Speaker 1: uh he also talked about the Greatest World Newspaper nerds

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Speaker 1: something like that, but w g N stands for World's

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Speaker 1: Greatest Newspaper. Yeah, So it turned out that that little know,

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Speaker 1: the great, the great World newspaper nerds or whatever however

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Speaker 1: he worded it, that was a reference back to w

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Speaker 1: g N. So it's very clearly intended for w g NY.

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Speaker 1: And the first attack wasn't as effective as as they

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Speaker 1: had hoped because, uh, like I said, there was no audio.

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Speaker 1: And also the folks at w g N, once they

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Speaker 1: figured out something was going on, very quickly changed the

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Speaker 1: frequency transmitters. They said, well, I guess yeah, yeah, which

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Speaker 1: is interesting. We'll talk more about how that kind of

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Speaker 1: helps us know a little more about the attack curs.

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Speaker 1: Because here's the other thing. To this day, there there's

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Speaker 1: no the public has no idea who did this. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I think that's why this story has lingered, and it's

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Speaker 1: so cool is because anytime you have an unsolved mystery,

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Speaker 1: even if it's uh just sort of an odd broadcast

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Speaker 1: intrusion like this, people are going to be obsessed with it. Like, um,

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Speaker 1: we've a lot of the information, uh from that I

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Speaker 1: did research on. Came from a motherboard kind of the

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Speaker 1: mother of all articles. Had some great research. Yeah, Chris

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Speaker 1: middle who Yeah, the article, if you want to look

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Speaker 1: for it, is the mystery of the creepiest television hack,

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Speaker 1: and I agree this article is fantastic. It really lays

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Speaker 1: out not just the incident, but also other things that

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Speaker 1: had happened beforehand that kind of laid the groundwork for this,

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Speaker 1: as well as just a discussion, although a brief one,

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Speaker 1: about the hacker culture that existed at that time and

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Speaker 1: how that kind of lends itself to people who maybe

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Speaker 1: are cleverer than is good for them, or could be

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Speaker 1: very nice way to say it, because as it turns out,

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Speaker 1: the f c C here in the United States does

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Speaker 1: not take kindly to folks intruding upon established airways. No,

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Speaker 1: it's it's a big no no, especially with bare butts,

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Speaker 1: which I think you said. Once the camera cuts, we

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Speaker 1: didn't continue there. That's when it got really weird because

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Speaker 1: there's a camera cut and then you see the mask

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Speaker 1: is off, but the guy has his head out of

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Speaker 1: frame and it's just sort of holding the mask. Uh.

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Speaker 1: He has pantser down showing his his bear Fannie, and

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Speaker 1: then yeah, from profile and then a lady on the

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Speaker 1: right uh and looks like some sort of Old West

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Speaker 1: like Antiochley type Garb spanks him with a fly swatter

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Speaker 1: on his butt. Although spanks is really being generous. She's

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Speaker 1: very slowly and lightly tapping him on the bottom with

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Speaker 1: the flyswater, so to the point where you're you're thinking, like,

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Speaker 1: I guess that's supposed to represent spanking. Uh, doesn't look

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Speaker 1: like any spanking I ever received as a kid. I

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Speaker 1: got you. Anyway, That's pretty much where the video cut off,

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Speaker 1: and then it went right back in the Doctor Who,

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Speaker 1: and which is really funny to see the transition. Yeah. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: he died of an electric shock. Yeah, you've got to

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Speaker 1: watch the whole incident on YouTube if you haven't already. Uh.

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Speaker 1: And in case you're curious that episode, it's we're talking

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Speaker 1: classic Doctor Who. Obviously back in seven. This is not

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Speaker 1: the reboot. Uh, it was the Horror of fang Rock.

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Speaker 1: So if that's your favorite episode, I'm sorry that was

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Speaker 1: interrupted back. So yeah, and like we said, the the

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Speaker 1: audio really showed that that the public television station wasn't

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Speaker 1: the intended target. It was the it was a target

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Speaker 1: of opportunity after the first attempt failed. And uh, we'll

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Speaker 1: talk more about the technology behind that and why they

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Speaker 1: had to switch from one to the other. Um, it

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Speaker 1: turns out it was largely a practical issue, at least

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Speaker 1: as far as I can determine, and um, it was.

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Speaker 1: There were also references within the Little Weird Diet tribe

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Speaker 1: the guy made to Coca Cola because he said catch

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Speaker 1: the wave and he had a new coat can that

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Speaker 1: he threw down on the ground. Yeah, And also a

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Speaker 1: reference to the cult cartoon Clutch Cargo. Yeah, he hummed

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Speaker 1: the theme Clutch Cargo. If you've ever seen the movie

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Speaker 1: Pulp Fiction, Um, the scene with young Bruce Willis back

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Speaker 1: in the nineteen seventies, I guess with Christopher Walkin as

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Speaker 1: his guardian. He's watching Clutch Cargo on TV. There that

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Speaker 1: with the mouth's cut out. O'Brien has also used that

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Speaker 1: same comedic great effect using the live action in order

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Speaker 1: because what what the whole point was was it was

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Speaker 1: an idea of of reducing the cost of animation big time.

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Speaker 1: Because there was no animation. You had to picture, yeah,

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Speaker 1: still picture, and then you would superimpose live actors mouths

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Speaker 1: on top of it. And if that sounds reap and

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Speaker 1: disturbing to you, you you're on the right track. It

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Speaker 1: was not the only cartoon to do this. There were

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Speaker 1: a few others. Um, thank you, Cambria productions for and

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Speaker 1: uh yeah, so he hummed like the whole Clutch Cargo

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Speaker 1: theme and made references to actual episodes of Clutch Cargo.

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Speaker 1: Uh so it was certainly someone with an odd sense

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Speaker 1: of humor who did this. Now there was no other message, right,

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Speaker 1: there was no. It wasn't like a political thing. This

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Speaker 1: very stream of consciousness kind of weird. He holds up

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Speaker 1: I guess what we can cleanly describe as a marital aid, yes,

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Speaker 1: at one point, and throws that on the ground, and um,

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Speaker 1: it's just once the fly swadding comes in, it's just

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Speaker 1: obvious that they're kind of free forming. Although it was

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Speaker 1: not live, which is important to know. This is a

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Speaker 1: videotape that they made. Yeah, yeah, and it was because

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Speaker 1: I mean, in order to do a live intrusion would

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Speaker 1: require essentially a studio and you'd have to have some

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Speaker 1: sort of linked to a transmitter that all had line

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Speaker 1: of sight to the same antenna as whatever target you're

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Speaker 1: you're aiming at. So that would have been an astoundingly complicated.

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Speaker 1: This is definitely a little easier to pull off. So

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Speaker 1: you know, now that we know that this, they've they've

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Speaker 1: never been found, they're likely never to be found. I mean,

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Speaker 1: it's always possible that someone could come forward and say,

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Speaker 1: all right, well here's how it actually happened. I'm the

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Speaker 1: guy who did this. I would improve it. I'm surprised

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Speaker 1: that hasn't happened by now, because the Statute of Limitations

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Speaker 1: is up for Yeah, it's way up, so you can't

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Speaker 1: get in trouble and it's um I think they would

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Speaker 1: unless they just think it's better left as a mystery

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Speaker 1: they would live in like especially nowadays with the Internet

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Speaker 1: like it is, it would blow up, you know, it

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Speaker 1: would be right. It could possibly be the fact that

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Speaker 1: I mean, you know, of course we're just projecting here,

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Speaker 1: but could possibly be that they are no longer terribly

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Speaker 1: proud of what they did, and or that they've moved

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Speaker 1: on in their lives. Yeah, there's there's a significant amount

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Speaker 1: of time since THEAD and they might have thought, you know,

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Speaker 1: I'm not going to brag about something I did when

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Speaker 1: I was younger and dumber, especially now that I'm the

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Speaker 1: CEO of ABC, right, that that might end up. By

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Speaker 1: the way, we do not actually mean that the CEO

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Speaker 1: of ABC ORDNY Disney affiliates are involved. But the other

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Speaker 1: interesting thing is that this was not the first time

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Speaker 1: that UM I A A an intrusion had happened in

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Speaker 1: in broadcast history. The first one, if you want to

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Speaker 1: go back, actually didn't happen in the United States. It

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Speaker 1: happened back in UH, the UK in nineteen seventies seven,

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Speaker 1: and that was when a hoaxer interrupted a Southern television

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Speaker 1: broadcast by UH inserting audio. It didn't change the video.

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Speaker 1: So this is kind of the opposite of what had

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Speaker 1: happened the first time with the Max Hedroum incident. But

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Speaker 1: it was an audio stream that came in and carried

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Speaker 1: a message from the alien villa on UH. And this

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Speaker 1: is in the like I said, in the UK. So

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Speaker 1: obviously the alien had an English accent. I guess that's

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Speaker 1: only you know, fair like, if you're going to interrupt

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Speaker 1: someone's program, you want to make sure you're speaking in

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Speaker 1: the dialect, you know it otherwise, right, Yeah, suddenly they

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Speaker 1: spoke like like with a French accent. I mean that

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Speaker 1: would just be adding. But anyway, so it was a

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Speaker 1: message that essentially said that humans should prepare themselves for

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Speaker 1: the worst because you know, destruction is a common Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's great, that's what a broadcast intrusion should be some

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Speaker 1: creepy warning, not just a random series of images that

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Speaker 1: disturb you for things that you can't quite put your

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Speaker 1: finger on, although that is more disturbing. Almost. Yeah. And

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Speaker 1: then in six we get the first one in the

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Speaker 1: United States. Uh, and this was an inside job deal.

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Speaker 1: This was happened on April at twelve thirty two am,

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Speaker 1: and it involved the East Coast feed of HBO. And Uh,

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Speaker 1: what happened was the HBO was showing a movie called

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Speaker 1: The Falcon and the Snowman Classic. You know, it certainly

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Speaker 1: could not be helped by approximately four minutes of footage

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Speaker 1: missing because they've been replaced by a series of colored

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Speaker 1: bars that say good evening, HBO from Captain Midnight twelve

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Speaker 1: a month, no way Showtime movie Channel Beware. Yeah, that

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Speaker 1: had a clear motive. Yeah, And and and actually ironically,

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Speaker 1: the um the guy was caught. His name was John R. McDougall,

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Speaker 1: and he was an employee of Central Florida Teleport And

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Speaker 1: he used what do you use? He the was it

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Speaker 1: the text that he used? He? Yeah, So the text

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Speaker 1: generators that the companies used in order to put an

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Speaker 1: overlay on top of a screen, so like like the

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Speaker 1: actual words that were being used there. Well, they're very particular.

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Speaker 1: And by measuring things like the height of the the font,

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Speaker 1: the how far uh the middle bar of an e

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Speaker 1: is according to the other side, how close together the

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Speaker 1: his words are, investigators were able to narrow it down

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Speaker 1: to a specific machine. Yeah. It's well have had his

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Speaker 1: fingerprint up there. Yeah. Yeah, this is like incredible forensics, right.

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Speaker 1: It's sort of like if someone gets hold of a

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Speaker 1: typewritten sheet of paper and is able to determine the

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Speaker 1: model of typewriter that was used to actually make this.

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Speaker 1: But in this case it got even more specific because

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Speaker 1: these machines aren't everywhere, and that's what led them to

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Speaker 1: track down McDougall. Who uh, who have just decided that

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Speaker 1: the recent hike in prices for a monthly subscription to

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Speaker 1: HBO were unconscionable and he had to make it known. So, yeah,

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Speaker 1: he had a side job selling satellite dish service. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: so he thought that would nick his business some and

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Speaker 1: so he eventually was caught and pled guilty, paid a

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Speaker 1: five thousand dollar fine, and served just one year of probation.

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Speaker 1: And it was that incident that led, I believe Congress

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Speaker 1: to make it a federal violation to it's sudden, yeah,

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Speaker 1: because they suddenly said, wait now that people can actually

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Speaker 1: do this. Now great, this was someone, like we said,

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Speaker 1: an inside job. They had access to a satellite. What

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Speaker 1: what he actually did was he pointed the satellite of

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Speaker 1: Central Florida Teleport at the HBO satellite. Chuck, you and

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Speaker 1: I we wouldn't even know where the heck that satellite is.

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Speaker 1: So even if we had the equipment and everything else,

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Speaker 1: we'd just beat Well, the sky is a lot bigger

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Speaker 1: than I had taken into account. And uh you know,

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Speaker 1: of course we'd have to be someplace where we could

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Speaker 1: actually get a good clear view of the sky because

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Speaker 1: if they're building in the way or something. But uh yeah,

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Speaker 1: so he he was a good example of that. And

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Speaker 1: then September, so this is just before them the incident

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Speaker 1: with the Max Hedgerm incident. Thomas Hainey hijacked a signal

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Speaker 1: at on the Playboy channel. I think I remember hearing

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Speaker 1: about this one. Yeah. It was where it was sending

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Speaker 1: in religious messages essentially saying repent and and you know

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Speaker 1: you are the discard your wicked ways that kind of thing, right,

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Speaker 1: And it's no surprise because he actually worked for the

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Speaker 1: Christian Broadcast Network, so again he had a job. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: he had access to the equipment necessary and the knowledge

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Speaker 1: necessary to be able to do this. It's not something

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Speaker 1: that the average person would be able to do. And

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Speaker 1: again it was the character generator, the the font generator

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Speaker 1: that kind of led the way. It was the main

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Speaker 1: piece of evidence that was leveled against him. Um. I

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Speaker 1: remember that Pat Robertson was very upset when the verdict

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Speaker 1: was handled handed down. He said that there wasn't enough

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Speaker 1: evidence to um to say that Hainey was in fact

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Speaker 1: the person who who did this. Well, he was convicted,

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Speaker 1: but um, I think just got probation. And the first guy, McDougald,

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Speaker 1: is interesting. What he got convicted for was operating without

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Speaker 1: a license even though he had a license. So that

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Speaker 1: was a bit of a hinky ruling. I think they

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Speaker 1: just had to convict him of something because I don't

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Speaker 1: know if allows in place at that point. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean it's it's kind of like that deal where

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Speaker 1: you realize this is someone that we need to punish,

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Speaker 1: but we don't have a law that covers the crime,

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Speaker 1: and we haven't defined it as a crime, but we

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Speaker 1: know that this is something people really shouldn't be able

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Speaker 1: to do, so we have to somehow justify it. Um. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: And as it turns out, the every nation, uh, in

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Speaker 1: some way or another, ends up regulating the electromagnetic spectrum.

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Speaker 1: But it changes from one place to the other. Sure

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Speaker 1: there's only so much room, right, yeah, exactly. So electromagetic

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Speaker 1: spectrum goes all the way from radio waves, which can

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Speaker 1: a radio wave can be kilometers long, right, and then

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Speaker 1: you go all the way to the other side to

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Speaker 1: like gamma rays we're talking about on the nanoscale and

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Speaker 1: everything in between. That's the electromagnetic spectrum. Visible light is

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Speaker 1: part of that. You know, visible light is on the

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Speaker 1: short side, but radio waves and microwaves are on the

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Speaker 1: longer side, and uh not all those radio wave so

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Speaker 1: you know, we can't just all use the same ones

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Speaker 1: because then we would have interference. Right if if the

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Speaker 1: television and your phone used the same frequencies, then you

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Speaker 1: would have interference between the two, and that would be terrible.

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Speaker 1: Nothing would be usable. Yeah, I don't call it a

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Speaker 1: crunch if there's too much activity on one frequency, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's that's if you've got everyone just using you know

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Speaker 1: what they're supposed to. Let's say everyone in the cellular

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Speaker 1: network has they're all on their phones that we've seen

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Speaker 1: this happen in life events they're posting len couldn't. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: or even just going to a big event like any

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Speaker 1: like c S or any large event like that, you

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Speaker 1: suddenly can't get access to anything. That's where you've got

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Speaker 1: more demand for data transmission than there is capacity. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I've tried to get a signal at Comic Con before,

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Speaker 1: and ye, no, no, the same thing is true a

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Speaker 1: Dragon Con and that's a like a third the size

401
00:22:52,080 --> 00:22:56,040
Speaker 1: of Comic Con. But yeah, it's It's also true that

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Speaker 1: there are wavelengths within the electromagnetic spectrum that are really

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Speaker 1: good for carrying data and some that aren't. So the

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Speaker 1: government has divided up the electromantic spectrum and saying these

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Speaker 1: are the sections that can be used for specific purposes.

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Speaker 1: So a large part of it is set aside for

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Speaker 1: government and military use, a large part of his s

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Speaker 1: side for radio so AM and FM UH. And then

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Speaker 1: you also have television broadcast that are that are partial

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Speaker 1: partitioned off as well cellular data, WiFi. All of these

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Speaker 1: things have their specific place that is mandated by the government.

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Speaker 1: So if you go in and start messing around with that,

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Speaker 1: the government gets pretty upset. Yeah, because I think, you know,

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Speaker 1: it's sort of a Nippot in the bud situation, like

415
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Speaker 1: one broadcast intrusion, really no big deal. And that apparently

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Speaker 1: is why the lead investigator said that, um, I think

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Speaker 1: his name was Marcus. He had a hard time getting

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Speaker 1: resources because there was a little egg on the face

419
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Speaker 1: and they've probably just wanted it to go away more

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Speaker 1: than anything. And no one's really hurt. There was no

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Speaker 1: damage done, so they're not gonna throw a lot of

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Speaker 1: money in time trying to find this person. And and

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Speaker 1: he also had some fairly harsh words for an fcc

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Speaker 1: UH investigator he was actually in Chicago. He didn't name

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Speaker 1: the person. Yeah, I said that said that this guy

426
00:24:19,480 --> 00:24:22,120
Speaker 1: wasn't willing to go and knock on doors to actually

427
00:24:22,160 --> 00:24:25,320
Speaker 1: do some investigation. And part of that is probably because

428
00:24:25,840 --> 00:24:29,600
Speaker 1: there was this embarrassment factor. They're also but without the teeth,

429
00:24:30,160 --> 00:24:32,760
Speaker 1: you know, with the authority, it makes it hard for

430
00:24:32,800 --> 00:24:36,199
Speaker 1: someone to go out and say there's a justification for

431
00:24:36,280 --> 00:24:39,760
Speaker 1: spending the time, resources and money necessarily investigating for a

432
00:24:39,800 --> 00:24:43,040
Speaker 1: small fine in probation, even if they do catch the person. Now,

433
00:24:43,760 --> 00:24:46,760
Speaker 1: the maximum fine, although I doubt that we would see

434
00:24:47,200 --> 00:24:49,439
Speaker 1: a maximum fine for something as small as a min

435
00:24:49,480 --> 00:24:52,720
Speaker 1: and a half interruption in Doctor Who, Doctor Who fans,

436
00:24:52,800 --> 00:24:56,439
Speaker 1: Please don't take me to task for that. But the

437
00:24:56,480 --> 00:24:58,800
Speaker 1: maximum fine is a hundred thousand dollars or a year

438
00:24:58,800 --> 00:25:01,000
Speaker 1: in jail or both. Yeah, which they were very big

439
00:25:01,040 --> 00:25:04,399
Speaker 1: on announcing at the time as well as UM. I

440
00:25:04,400 --> 00:25:07,280
Speaker 1: think they had a lot of misinformation they or I

441
00:25:07,320 --> 00:25:09,240
Speaker 1: don't know if it's misinformation or they were trying to

442
00:25:09,280 --> 00:25:12,840
Speaker 1: get out a little misinformation saying how sophisticated of an

443
00:25:12,920 --> 00:25:15,520
Speaker 1: operation it was and how expensive all the equipment must

444
00:25:15,520 --> 00:25:17,400
Speaker 1: have been, which is really not in the case now,

445
00:25:17,440 --> 00:25:20,520
Speaker 1: I think. I think it was a lot of people

446
00:25:20,600 --> 00:25:26,080
Speaker 1: trying to discourage future pranksters from following in there. So

447
00:25:26,160 --> 00:25:30,359
Speaker 1: that means, well, let's make sure we we set the

448
00:25:30,359 --> 00:25:33,080
Speaker 1: the bar very high, saying it's really hard to do

449
00:25:33,119 --> 00:25:36,280
Speaker 1: and it's really expensive. Yeah, and if you do try,

450
00:25:36,320 --> 00:25:38,239
Speaker 1: it's gonna get even more expensive for you, because we're

451
00:25:38,240 --> 00:25:41,480
Speaker 1: gonna find you a hundred thousand dollars. So, now, the

452
00:25:41,520 --> 00:25:45,399
Speaker 1: truth was that the transmission equipment that was that could

453
00:25:45,400 --> 00:25:48,120
Speaker 1: be used to do such a thing while brand new

454
00:25:48,200 --> 00:25:51,040
Speaker 1: would cost maybe you know, a few thousand dollars, which

455
00:25:51,119 --> 00:25:54,680
Speaker 1: is a significant amount of money once it hits the aftermarket.

456
00:25:54,760 --> 00:25:58,080
Speaker 1: Like you know, let's say that you've got a station,

457
00:25:58,240 --> 00:26:01,520
Speaker 1: a small station that upgrading its equipment and it gets

458
00:26:01,600 --> 00:26:04,200
Speaker 1: rid of the old stuff that was on the amateur market.

459
00:26:04,320 --> 00:26:06,359
Speaker 1: So you could go out and buy that stuff and

460
00:26:06,400 --> 00:26:08,360
Speaker 1: it would be much less expensive than if you were

461
00:26:08,400 --> 00:26:12,879
Speaker 1: to buy it brand new. So I mentioned earlier in

462
00:26:12,880 --> 00:26:17,320
Speaker 1: this episode about the the hacker culture. Well have you

463
00:26:17,359 --> 00:26:22,800
Speaker 1: heard about freakers? Okay, so a freaker spelled pH r

464
00:26:22,880 --> 00:26:26,919
Speaker 1: e A K I n G freaking. It's all about

465
00:26:27,480 --> 00:26:31,160
Speaker 1: manipulating the phone system. So Steve Jobs and Steve Wozniac

466
00:26:31,280 --> 00:26:34,760
Speaker 1: were freakers, founders of Apple. Actually Wasniac was really the

467
00:26:34,800 --> 00:26:37,040
Speaker 1: guy who knew how to do it. But there are

468
00:26:37,240 --> 00:26:39,240
Speaker 1: a ton of them. One of the most famous ones

469
00:26:39,560 --> 00:26:42,680
Speaker 1: his name was Captain Crunch, and Captain Crunch was called

470
00:26:42,680 --> 00:26:46,040
Speaker 1: that because he discovered that by using a Captain Crunch

471
00:26:46,160 --> 00:26:49,320
Speaker 1: plastic whistle that came in a box of cereal, he

472
00:26:49,359 --> 00:26:53,080
Speaker 1: could mimic the tone that the telephone company was using

473
00:26:53,720 --> 00:26:56,879
Speaker 1: and allow him to make free long distance phone calls.

474
00:26:57,880 --> 00:27:00,480
Speaker 1: So you had this culture of people who, wait, what's

475
00:27:00,480 --> 00:27:04,399
Speaker 1: a long distance phone call? Yeah? Kids, once upon a time,

476
00:27:05,080 --> 00:27:07,959
Speaker 1: if you wanted to call anyone outside of your area code,

477
00:27:08,200 --> 00:27:11,320
Speaker 1: it cost extra lay. Actually tell me that. The other

478
00:27:11,400 --> 00:27:13,320
Speaker 1: day that was cutting my hair. She got a phone call.

479
00:27:13,359 --> 00:27:15,280
Speaker 1: She said, I'm sorry, it's my daughter long distance. I

480
00:27:15,280 --> 00:27:17,320
Speaker 1: need to step away. And I was sitting there going,

481
00:27:18,119 --> 00:27:22,080
Speaker 1: what's long distance? Yeah? Maybe international? Yeah, that might be it.

482
00:27:22,280 --> 00:27:25,120
Speaker 1: That's about it. Or you can just keep cutting my hair, right, Yeah, yeah,

483
00:27:25,200 --> 00:27:27,439
Speaker 1: you know it's fine. I mean, I'm not gonna know

484
00:27:27,760 --> 00:27:32,240
Speaker 1: her half the conversation, but yeah, the the uh. These

485
00:27:32,280 --> 00:27:35,600
Speaker 1: were people who thought that these huge systems were fascinating,

486
00:27:35,800 --> 00:27:38,640
Speaker 1: but the telephone system was really interesting and learning how

487
00:27:38,680 --> 00:27:41,000
Speaker 1: it worked was fascinating. And then once you know how

488
00:27:41,000 --> 00:27:44,760
Speaker 1: it works, you know how to kind of game the system. Yeah.

489
00:27:44,800 --> 00:27:48,439
Speaker 1: And it's not necessarily the case that they were looking

490
00:27:48,480 --> 00:27:51,800
Speaker 1: to cause trouble or to be pranksters, although there was

491
00:27:51,840 --> 00:27:54,280
Speaker 1: some mischief involved there too, A lot of it was

492
00:27:54,320 --> 00:27:57,280
Speaker 1: more about oh, now I know how this works, and

493
00:27:57,320 --> 00:27:59,399
Speaker 1: that means this works this other way. It was really

494
00:27:59,440 --> 00:28:03,360
Speaker 1: more about learning the system and then negotiating it kind

495
00:28:03,400 --> 00:28:06,320
Speaker 1: of like war, yes, very much like a little mischief,

496
00:28:06,359 --> 00:28:09,480
Speaker 1: a little civil disobedience. But I don't think most of

497
00:28:09,480 --> 00:28:11,600
Speaker 1: these people early on we're trying to cause harm. No,

498
00:28:11,880 --> 00:28:15,719
Speaker 1: it was really more of insatiable curiosity, right, really, I

499
00:28:15,760 --> 00:28:17,560
Speaker 1: can so let me just try it out right and

500
00:28:17,600 --> 00:28:19,879
Speaker 1: see if it works. I think that's exactly what happened

501
00:28:19,880 --> 00:28:22,520
Speaker 1: with this, Max he I totally agree. You had people

502
00:28:22,520 --> 00:28:25,639
Speaker 1: who said, let's you know, we know how radio works.

503
00:28:25,880 --> 00:28:29,600
Speaker 1: Television broadcast is essentially a radio broadcast. So once you

504
00:28:29,640 --> 00:28:31,720
Speaker 1: know how that works, and once you know the basics

505
00:28:31,760 --> 00:28:33,800
Speaker 1: behind it, are there ways where we could end up

506
00:28:34,359 --> 00:28:37,640
Speaker 1: injecting our own signal into this and have a little

507
00:28:37,680 --> 00:28:40,320
Speaker 1: fun and have a little fun exactly. And so it

508
00:28:40,680 --> 00:28:42,120
Speaker 1: was one of those things where you had the people

509
00:28:42,120 --> 00:28:43,800
Speaker 1: who had to know how, and you have the people

510
00:28:43,800 --> 00:28:46,120
Speaker 1: who had the willingness to do it, and they were

511
00:28:46,120 --> 00:28:50,960
Speaker 1: working together to create this prank and uh again aiming

512
00:28:51,000 --> 00:28:53,000
Speaker 1: at a very specific target, and when that didn't work,

513
00:28:53,120 --> 00:28:55,920
Speaker 1: switching to doctor who, Yeah, I appreciate the attitude of

514
00:28:55,960 --> 00:28:58,200
Speaker 1: most of this stuff too. To be honest, um, I

515
00:28:58,240 --> 00:29:00,960
Speaker 1: don't think there's something wrong with a little high jinks

516
00:29:01,000 --> 00:29:02,600
Speaker 1: to thumb your nose at the man if you're not

517
00:29:02,680 --> 00:29:05,160
Speaker 1: hurting anybody. Um, I mean, you don't want to see

518
00:29:05,160 --> 00:29:06,479
Speaker 1: it all the time because then it takes out all

519
00:29:06,520 --> 00:29:08,680
Speaker 1: the teeth out of it. But every now and then,

520
00:29:08,720 --> 00:29:10,680
Speaker 1: I kind of like, you know, when they interviewed people

521
00:29:10,680 --> 00:29:13,040
Speaker 1: in Chicago, some people on the street were really upset

522
00:29:13,280 --> 00:29:14,680
Speaker 1: and some people just kind of laughing. I was like,

523
00:29:14,800 --> 00:29:17,760
Speaker 1: I think it's pretty great. Yeah yeah, because again, like

524
00:29:17,760 --> 00:29:20,960
Speaker 1: like we were saying, there wasn't any lasting harm here, right,

525
00:29:21,200 --> 00:29:24,840
Speaker 1: of course not the actual intrusion didn't cause any damage.

526
00:29:25,040 --> 00:29:27,880
Speaker 1: It wasn't it wasn't something that was going to wreck

527
00:29:28,200 --> 00:29:31,640
Speaker 1: physical equipment. No, you lost eighty seconds of Doctor Who. Yeah,

528
00:29:31,760 --> 00:29:35,920
Speaker 1: which I might say is and some people say it's priceless. Uh,

529
00:29:36,000 --> 00:29:38,239
Speaker 1: you know this is Tom Baker, doctor Who we're talking about. Well,

530
00:29:38,320 --> 00:29:40,320
Speaker 1: especially back then when you just couldn't go look up,

531
00:29:40,440 --> 00:29:42,040
Speaker 1: you know the scene that I missed the night before,

532
00:29:42,560 --> 00:29:44,840
Speaker 1: like that was a true intrusion. Yeah, yeah, I mean

533
00:29:44,840 --> 00:29:47,800
Speaker 1: this is this is obviously pre well. I mean, the

534
00:29:47,840 --> 00:29:50,880
Speaker 1: Internet was around, but nobody was on it except it

535
00:29:50,920 --> 00:29:53,080
Speaker 1: was like bullets and boards and stuff that was That

536
00:29:53,160 --> 00:29:56,560
Speaker 1: was pretty much what most hackers had access to unless

537
00:29:56,560 --> 00:29:58,680
Speaker 1: they were in a university and they had some access

538
00:29:58,720 --> 00:30:01,760
Speaker 1: to the preliminary version of the Internet. Um, but there

539
00:30:01,840 --> 00:30:04,200
Speaker 1: was no worldwide Web. There was no web. There wouldn't

540
00:30:04,200 --> 00:30:06,120
Speaker 1: be another. There wouldn't be a worldwide Web for another

541
00:30:06,160 --> 00:30:10,480
Speaker 1: five years. So there was no way of being able

542
00:30:10,520 --> 00:30:13,440
Speaker 1: to go on and and check something you missed, Nor

543
00:30:13,560 --> 00:30:15,960
Speaker 1: was there a way for you to really easily communicate

544
00:30:16,680 --> 00:30:19,040
Speaker 1: with folks all over the world. Now they could do

545
00:30:19,080 --> 00:30:21,560
Speaker 1: it with local bolton board systems, And in fact, that's

546
00:30:21,960 --> 00:30:24,800
Speaker 1: what we suspect, or at least there there's a lot

547
00:30:24,800 --> 00:30:27,760
Speaker 1: of suspicion that, in fact, one of the local Chicago

548
00:30:27,880 --> 00:30:31,400
Speaker 1: bbs is had people in a forum who were at

549
00:30:31,480 --> 00:30:36,560
Speaker 1: least tangentially involved in this, if not directly responsible, but

550
00:30:36,720 --> 00:30:39,800
Speaker 1: to really understand what was going on, it helps to

551
00:30:39,880 --> 00:30:46,800
Speaker 1: understand how a broadcast television broadcast actually works. So here

552
00:30:46,840 --> 00:30:49,280
Speaker 1: we go. We're gonna going back to the analog days

553
00:30:49,360 --> 00:30:55,000
Speaker 1: of TV broadcast technology. So now, Chuck, you've you've been

554
00:30:55,040 --> 00:30:58,560
Speaker 1: in a television studio too, right, Yeah? You and you

555
00:30:58,600 --> 00:31:00,120
Speaker 1: and Josh I'm sure have done some of this. I've

556
00:31:00,160 --> 00:31:03,000
Speaker 1: done some of this. When you see how a TV

557
00:31:03,160 --> 00:31:06,400
Speaker 1: studio works, it's actually very eye opening. I mean it

558
00:31:06,560 --> 00:31:10,480
Speaker 1: to me, It completely pulled away a lot of misconceptions

559
00:31:10,520 --> 00:31:14,080
Speaker 1: that I had had. For example, you think of like cameramen,

560
00:31:14,640 --> 00:31:19,120
Speaker 1: but in large part camera operation is done remotely, not

561
00:31:19,520 --> 00:31:23,280
Speaker 1: behind a camera. Right. Uh. These cameras that you see

562
00:31:23,320 --> 00:31:27,600
Speaker 1: in the studio are enormous and they're heavy. And this

563
00:31:27,680 --> 00:31:30,200
Speaker 1: is also the reason why I'm explaining this is also

564
00:31:30,240 --> 00:31:36,360
Speaker 1: to to illustrate why doing this live would have been impractical.

565
00:31:37,280 --> 00:31:41,040
Speaker 1: These television cameras are the reason why they're so big

566
00:31:41,040 --> 00:31:44,600
Speaker 1: and heavy is in part so that they're incredibly smooth

567
00:31:44,640 --> 00:31:48,200
Speaker 1: and steady and they aren't going to jitter. If you know,

568
00:31:48,560 --> 00:31:50,280
Speaker 1: you could drop something right next to one, it's not

569
00:31:50,320 --> 00:31:52,080
Speaker 1: going to move at all. Yeah, it's the same reason

570
00:31:52,280 --> 00:31:55,600
Speaker 1: a camera dolly ways you know, a thousand pounds. Yeah. Yeah,

571
00:31:55,600 --> 00:31:58,440
Speaker 1: it's in order to get that that stability that you

572
00:31:58,520 --> 00:32:01,920
Speaker 1: want so that you don't impounds. By the way, they're

573
00:32:01,960 --> 00:32:04,080
Speaker 1: less in that, but they're super heavy for that reason, right,

574
00:32:04,440 --> 00:32:07,640
Speaker 1: you want that stability and that smoothness. Uh. And also

575
00:32:08,200 --> 00:32:10,880
Speaker 1: television camera doesn't pick up sound, it doesn't have a

576
00:32:10,880 --> 00:32:14,440
Speaker 1: microphone on it. It's all about just capturing the image. Yeah,

577
00:32:14,520 --> 00:32:19,600
Speaker 1: the mic the sound is captured separately and together the magic. Yeah,

578
00:32:19,920 --> 00:32:24,080
Speaker 1: so the photons that's the particles of light that are

579
00:32:24,120 --> 00:32:27,800
Speaker 1: coming from a scene and are being captured by a camera.

580
00:32:28,360 --> 00:32:31,520
Speaker 1: The light passes through a lens which goes through a prism.

581
00:32:31,560 --> 00:32:33,840
Speaker 1: The prism is the purpose of a prism is to

582
00:32:33,880 --> 00:32:37,960
Speaker 1: break up light into its component parts. And this case,

583
00:32:38,000 --> 00:32:40,680
Speaker 1: we're talking about a prism that breaks light into red, green,

584
00:32:40,840 --> 00:32:45,520
Speaker 1: and blue. That's all you needed. And each of those

585
00:32:45,560 --> 00:32:48,920
Speaker 1: streams goes and is hit by or it hits a

586
00:32:49,000 --> 00:32:52,000
Speaker 1: c c D a charge couple device. Now a charge

587
00:32:52,000 --> 00:32:54,160
Speaker 1: couple device. What does is when photons hit it, it it

588
00:32:54,280 --> 00:32:59,120
Speaker 1: generates a stream of electricity that essentially reflects the nature

589
00:32:59,160 --> 00:33:02,520
Speaker 1: of the photons that hit it. So you've got these

590
00:33:02,560 --> 00:33:05,440
Speaker 1: three streams coming out the red, green, and blue. Uh.

591
00:33:05,520 --> 00:33:10,320
Speaker 1: They then go into an encoder. Meanwhile, the sound that

592
00:33:10,360 --> 00:33:12,640
Speaker 1: you're creating is also going to head back over towards

593
00:33:12,720 --> 00:33:16,400
Speaker 1: the master control room. The information from the encoder goes

594
00:33:16,440 --> 00:33:19,680
Speaker 1: to the master control room, it gets mixed together. So

595
00:33:19,760 --> 00:33:23,200
Speaker 1: you then have a signal that has both video and sound.

596
00:33:23,280 --> 00:33:27,640
Speaker 1: Now there. If you were to be able to visualize this, uh,

597
00:33:27,680 --> 00:33:31,360
Speaker 1: it would actually be like the the visual data would

598
00:33:31,440 --> 00:33:35,520
Speaker 1: make up most of the a range of frequencies like

599
00:33:36,360 --> 00:33:41,160
Speaker 1: four within four mega hurts, and then the very edge

600
00:33:41,160 --> 00:33:43,760
Speaker 1: of it, like on the far right side, that would

601
00:33:43,800 --> 00:33:46,520
Speaker 1: represent the sound. So it's just a little sliver that's

602
00:33:46,520 --> 00:33:49,280
Speaker 1: the sound. Yeah, and you're either preparing to broadcast this

603
00:33:49,360 --> 00:33:51,480
Speaker 1: out to the masses live or you're just putting it

604
00:33:51,520 --> 00:33:53,680
Speaker 1: to tape to do so later. Yeah, these days we

605
00:33:53,800 --> 00:33:56,440
Speaker 1: put on a STU or both. Yeah, exactly if you

606
00:33:56,480 --> 00:33:59,160
Speaker 1: wanted to to to keep it forever. Now, you may

607
00:33:59,160 --> 00:34:03,680
Speaker 1: have heard that there were times where people were broadcasting

608
00:34:03,680 --> 00:34:06,360
Speaker 1: stuff and never recording it. So there there are things

609
00:34:06,400 --> 00:34:09,000
Speaker 1: that have been created for television that we will never

610
00:34:09,040 --> 00:34:12,640
Speaker 1: see again. It's kind of like in some ways going

611
00:34:12,680 --> 00:34:15,000
Speaker 1: to see a live stage show. If you were there,

612
00:34:15,200 --> 00:34:19,839
Speaker 1: you saw it and weren't that's it. But uh, in

613
00:34:19,880 --> 00:34:23,560
Speaker 1: this case, we're talking about a live newscast, So that's

614
00:34:23,560 --> 00:34:26,520
Speaker 1: being broadcast out from that point. When it's all been

615
00:34:26,600 --> 00:34:29,879
Speaker 1: encoded and you've got this video signal that has all

616
00:34:29,880 --> 00:34:31,920
Speaker 1: the information. It's got the red, the green, the blue,

617
00:34:32,000 --> 00:34:35,680
Speaker 1: and the audio all four things that you need. Yeah,

618
00:34:35,760 --> 00:34:39,520
Speaker 1: it's time to transmit that out and it goes from

619
00:34:40,080 --> 00:34:44,960
Speaker 1: the studio to a transmitter. It's called a studio transmitter link. Now,

620
00:34:45,000 --> 00:34:49,120
Speaker 1: most studios don't have an enormous antenna that's at a

621
00:34:49,160 --> 00:34:53,280
Speaker 1: really high elevation can broadcast to the general area. Cities

622
00:34:53,360 --> 00:34:56,960
Speaker 1: share them. Yeah, and we're talking about an era of

623
00:34:57,080 --> 00:34:59,880
Speaker 1: over the air television, right. You're using your antenna to

624
00:35:00,000 --> 00:35:03,040
Speaker 1: pick up wavelengths. So what what they would do is

625
00:35:03,040 --> 00:35:07,319
Speaker 1: they would use the studio transmitter link to beam this

626
00:35:07,440 --> 00:35:12,000
Speaker 1: information to a nearby antenna on a very tall building. Yeah.

627
00:35:12,080 --> 00:35:15,040
Speaker 1: Usually the tallest buildings in your city will have these,

628
00:35:15,160 --> 00:35:17,560
Speaker 1: and Chicago has a lot of tall building, yes, and

629
00:35:17,600 --> 00:35:22,440
Speaker 1: they use them for that purpose exactly. So if you

630
00:35:22,520 --> 00:35:24,919
Speaker 1: stream that out to the antenna, the antenna then ends

631
00:35:25,000 --> 00:35:29,560
Speaker 1: up broadcasting an electro magnetic signal, and that ends up

632
00:35:29,560 --> 00:35:33,080
Speaker 1: being picked up by the antenna of your television, which

633
00:35:33,360 --> 00:35:36,560
Speaker 1: the electromagnetic signal when it hits the antenna generates an

634
00:35:36,600 --> 00:35:40,080
Speaker 1: electrical current. A tuner in your television is able to

635
00:35:40,120 --> 00:35:43,239
Speaker 1: focus in on a specific channel and thus kind of

636
00:35:43,280 --> 00:35:47,040
Speaker 1: filter the signal from the noise, and then it ends

637
00:35:47,120 --> 00:35:51,160
Speaker 1: up pulling out that video stream, creating the red, green, blue,

638
00:35:51,200 --> 00:35:53,320
Speaker 1: and the audio, and you get your TV that you

639
00:35:53,360 --> 00:35:58,840
Speaker 1: get to watch. It's beautiful. I joked with you earlier

640
00:35:58,880 --> 00:36:01,880
Speaker 1: that we should just give them the explanation from Willy Wonka,

641
00:36:01,960 --> 00:36:07,120
Speaker 1: which is slightly more simplistic but but easier to explain.

642
00:36:08,120 --> 00:36:12,200
Speaker 1: But unfortunately it's not quite that easy. So knowing how

643
00:36:12,239 --> 00:36:14,680
Speaker 1: this works, where you've got the signal coming from the

644
00:36:14,680 --> 00:36:18,399
Speaker 1: studio being transmitted out to a giant antenna and then

645
00:36:18,440 --> 00:36:22,600
Speaker 1: broadcast to an area, there are several areas that could

646
00:36:22,680 --> 00:36:27,520
Speaker 1: be potentially vulnerable to intrusion. If you are working on

647
00:36:27,560 --> 00:36:31,359
Speaker 1: the inside. Then if you're able to intercept and put

648
00:36:31,400 --> 00:36:34,600
Speaker 1: in a new signal to go to the studio transmitter

649
00:36:34,640 --> 00:36:37,480
Speaker 1: link to go out, then you're done. That's all you

650
00:36:37,600 --> 00:36:39,360
Speaker 1: need to do. You need just very easy to do

651
00:36:39,400 --> 00:36:42,560
Speaker 1: and very easy to trace back exactly. Yeah, inside job,

652
00:36:42,600 --> 00:36:45,400
Speaker 1: you're like, well, let's look at the people who have access. Now,

653
00:36:45,880 --> 00:36:48,319
Speaker 1: that's all that could have done this. But as it

654
00:36:48,360 --> 00:36:53,120
Speaker 1: turns out, with a over the air analog transmission, there

655
00:36:53,200 --> 00:36:55,360
Speaker 1: was an easier way of doing this where you didn't

656
00:36:55,400 --> 00:36:58,120
Speaker 1: have to break into the studio to do it. It

657
00:36:58,200 --> 00:37:00,879
Speaker 1: was pretty great. Actually, Yeah, so all you have to do,

658
00:37:01,600 --> 00:37:03,120
Speaker 1: and I say all you have to do this still

659
00:37:03,200 --> 00:37:06,000
Speaker 1: is pretty significant, is you have to have a transmitter

660
00:37:06,120 --> 00:37:08,319
Speaker 1: of your own. You have to be able to have

661
00:37:08,360 --> 00:37:11,719
Speaker 1: a direct line of sight to the antenna that's going

662
00:37:11,800 --> 00:37:15,719
Speaker 1: to pick up the transmission from the studio, and you

663
00:37:15,719 --> 00:37:19,240
Speaker 1: have to transmit on the frequency that the studio uses

664
00:37:19,640 --> 00:37:22,560
Speaker 1: at a higher intensity than what the studio is doing.

665
00:37:22,640 --> 00:37:25,600
Speaker 1: And then the antenna, which is stupid. Yeah, it can't

666
00:37:25,640 --> 00:37:28,399
Speaker 1: differentiate all of noses. That's a bad signal. I don't

667
00:37:28,400 --> 00:37:30,880
Speaker 1: want to broadcast. They don't know if it's the right frequency,

668
00:37:30,880 --> 00:37:35,320
Speaker 1: it's gonna broadcast it. So when you hit the antenna,

669
00:37:35,400 --> 00:37:37,359
Speaker 1: it's gonna go for the strongest signal. I mean, this

670
00:37:37,400 --> 00:37:40,319
Speaker 1: makes sense because if you had two signals that were

671
00:37:40,360 --> 00:37:43,000
Speaker 1: the same frequency and one is stronger than the other,

672
00:37:43,440 --> 00:37:46,480
Speaker 1: chances are the other frequency is coming from a different

673
00:37:46,520 --> 00:37:49,160
Speaker 1: source further away, and that's not the one you want

674
00:37:49,200 --> 00:37:52,040
Speaker 1: to transmit. Yes, so literally all they needed, I mean,

675
00:37:52,080 --> 00:37:54,240
Speaker 1: they didn't need to to blow it out of the water.

676
00:37:54,719 --> 00:37:57,600
Speaker 1: They just needed to be stronger. And to do so,

677
00:37:57,920 --> 00:38:00,040
Speaker 1: you just need to be a little closer, Yeah, to

678
00:38:00,080 --> 00:38:02,720
Speaker 1: be a lot closer in this case. But but yeah, exactly,

679
00:38:02,800 --> 00:38:05,680
Speaker 1: they just had to be somewhere along the pathway from

680
00:38:05,760 --> 00:38:08,880
Speaker 1: the studio to the antenna that was being used. Uh,

681
00:38:08,920 --> 00:38:11,920
Speaker 1: they and they just had to transmit on the right frequency,

682
00:38:11,960 --> 00:38:14,319
Speaker 1: which was that was information they could get. They could

683
00:38:14,360 --> 00:38:17,719
Speaker 1: get the information on what frequency to use. So you've

684
00:38:17,719 --> 00:38:20,400
Speaker 1: got your transmitter, you've got your media, which in this

685
00:38:20,440 --> 00:38:23,239
Speaker 1: case was a tape that they had shot earlier that

686
00:38:23,320 --> 00:38:25,719
Speaker 1: wasn't lying. You're probably on a building, and they've got

687
00:38:25,719 --> 00:38:27,560
Speaker 1: to be somewhere pretty high up. So yeah, likely on

688
00:38:27,600 --> 00:38:29,600
Speaker 1: top of a building or at least on like a

689
00:38:29,640 --> 00:38:32,040
Speaker 1: balcony or fire escape or something where they can have

690
00:38:32,080 --> 00:38:34,920
Speaker 1: a line of sight. Uh, they are, They've got their

691
00:38:34,920 --> 00:38:38,000
Speaker 1: transmitter and geared up to the right amount of power,

692
00:38:38,239 --> 00:38:40,520
Speaker 1: they shoot it off and everything else is taken care

693
00:38:40,520 --> 00:38:43,160
Speaker 1: of for them. They'll try to do anything else. In

694
00:38:43,160 --> 00:38:45,520
Speaker 1: this case, the John Hancock building in the Sears Tower

695
00:38:45,560 --> 00:38:48,920
Speaker 1: with the two towers that had these two receivers. And

696
00:38:49,239 --> 00:38:51,680
Speaker 1: there's been a lot of theories over the years. Um,

697
00:38:51,920 --> 00:38:54,360
Speaker 1: most people believe they were probably high up, but I

698
00:38:54,400 --> 00:38:57,840
Speaker 1: have seen one theory that they were mobile and a van,

699
00:38:58,760 --> 00:39:02,359
Speaker 1: not necessarily high up, just super super close. They Yeah,

700
00:39:02,440 --> 00:39:05,399
Speaker 1: that would also require them to have some way of

701
00:39:05,560 --> 00:39:10,239
Speaker 1: maintaining that line of sight and that that steady transmission,

702
00:39:10,280 --> 00:39:12,680
Speaker 1: because you know, if you if you don't, if you

703
00:39:12,680 --> 00:39:17,400
Speaker 1: don't have your electromagnetic waves directed right at the receiver.

704
00:39:18,120 --> 00:39:20,200
Speaker 1: Then it's point it's not going to be a strong

705
00:39:20,320 --> 00:39:22,560
Speaker 1: enough signal. Yeah, I don't. I don't buy the van theory.

706
00:39:22,560 --> 00:39:26,000
Speaker 1: It would be really really challenging, empowering everything. It's be

707
00:39:26,000 --> 00:39:29,080
Speaker 1: a pretty more sophisticated. It does make me suddenly think

708
00:39:29,080 --> 00:39:32,480
Speaker 1: that the Scooby Gang was responsible for it, because you've

709
00:39:32,480 --> 00:39:37,279
Speaker 1: got the big rubber mask like old Nan Withers so

710
00:39:37,400 --> 00:39:41,520
Speaker 1: channel nine, which was w g N in Chicago. Uh,

711
00:39:41,680 --> 00:39:43,640
Speaker 1: if you look at the channels in the United States,

712
00:39:43,680 --> 00:39:47,000
Speaker 1: they actually have the designated frequencies they have to, you know,

713
00:39:47,200 --> 00:39:50,120
Speaker 1: use at least the range that's around a hundred eight

714
00:39:50,280 --> 00:39:53,600
Speaker 1: seven mega hurts. So you tune your transmitter to that

715
00:39:53,880 --> 00:39:56,120
Speaker 1: signal and you aim it at the you know where

716
00:39:56,120 --> 00:39:58,600
Speaker 1: the antenna is. You've identified that, You've got it all

717
00:39:58,760 --> 00:40:02,520
Speaker 1: lined up, and you're good to go. Well, once w

718
00:40:02,640 --> 00:40:06,239
Speaker 1: g N changed their frequency, that meant that it didn't

719
00:40:06,280 --> 00:40:09,000
Speaker 1: matter how much power they poured into the transact. It's

720
00:40:09,000 --> 00:40:12,759
Speaker 1: like you're speaking the wrong language. So that meant that

721
00:40:12,840 --> 00:40:15,680
Speaker 1: suddenly their their prank didn't really go anywhere. They had

722
00:40:15,920 --> 00:40:19,360
Speaker 1: a brief appearance with no audio. Yeah, so they probably

723
00:40:19,400 --> 00:40:22,759
Speaker 1: did something a little wrong on their end. On their Well,

724
00:40:22,880 --> 00:40:24,840
Speaker 1: probably wasn't a test run. They probably wanted it to

725
00:40:24,840 --> 00:40:29,759
Speaker 1: work right, right right, but then unfortunately for them, unfortunately

726
00:40:29,760 --> 00:40:32,280
Speaker 1: for them, it didn't work with you know, without a hitch.

727
00:40:32,320 --> 00:40:34,759
Speaker 1: So they then say, well, what can we do, how

728
00:40:34,800 --> 00:40:39,120
Speaker 1: can we um save this and maybe get the actual

729
00:40:39,400 --> 00:40:44,839
Speaker 1: video that we shot scene and yeah, if you guys

730
00:40:44,880 --> 00:40:48,040
Speaker 1: haven't watched this video, you really kind of need to.

731
00:40:48,600 --> 00:40:52,120
Speaker 1: But at any rate, so they then decided to do

732
00:40:52,160 --> 00:40:55,400
Speaker 1: their backup plan. They knew the frequency that the local

733
00:40:55,880 --> 00:40:59,319
Speaker 1: public broadcast channel was using, and they knew that that

734
00:40:59,400 --> 00:41:01,640
Speaker 1: antenna was on top of the Sears tower and that

735
00:41:01,719 --> 00:41:05,560
Speaker 1: they could aim at that one. And uh so, whether

736
00:41:05,680 --> 00:41:08,480
Speaker 1: or not they had to relocate, they they probably did

737
00:41:08,560 --> 00:41:11,160
Speaker 1: just to get a good line of sight on the

738
00:41:11,320 --> 00:41:15,239
Speaker 1: on the antenna, but uh it was only a two

739
00:41:15,239 --> 00:41:18,440
Speaker 1: hour time difference between the first attack and the second attack,

740
00:41:18,960 --> 00:41:23,040
Speaker 1: So to retune the transmitter, to prep it to get

741
00:41:23,040 --> 00:41:26,080
Speaker 1: ready to hit the target, and to make sure you

742
00:41:26,120 --> 00:41:28,600
Speaker 1: have a line of sight on it, they probably stayed

743
00:41:28,640 --> 00:41:34,080
Speaker 1: in the same general area, which is northwest part of Chicago. Northwest. Yeah,

744
00:41:34,120 --> 00:41:37,799
Speaker 1: there's actually that that article we were talking about, the

745
00:41:37,840 --> 00:41:41,680
Speaker 1: Motherboard article. They have a great picture that shows the

746
00:41:41,760 --> 00:41:44,879
Speaker 1: location of both studios of both antenna and it kind

747
00:41:44,880 --> 00:41:47,399
Speaker 1: of shows you like an area where where the two

748
00:41:47,480 --> 00:41:52,160
Speaker 1: lines almost crossed, and you figure, I bet, I bet

749
00:41:52,200 --> 00:41:54,600
Speaker 1: they were somewhere in this general area so that they

750
00:41:54,600 --> 00:41:58,080
Speaker 1: could if they didn't have to relocate. Uh, then they

751
00:41:58,200 --> 00:42:01,719
Speaker 1: just you know, shifted position, or maybe they relocated by

752
00:42:01,719 --> 00:42:05,640
Speaker 1: a couple of blocks, which raises the question how they

753
00:42:05,640 --> 00:42:08,080
Speaker 1: get access to a high enough area and still have

754
00:42:08,120 --> 00:42:10,120
Speaker 1: power and all that kind of stuff. Right now they

755
00:42:10,120 --> 00:42:12,520
Speaker 1: were just on their buddies the roof of his apartment

756
00:42:13,040 --> 00:42:17,440
Speaker 1: with an extension quarter. That's probably what happened. Uh. So

757
00:42:18,040 --> 00:42:21,520
Speaker 1: they then did the second attack at eleven o'clock or

758
00:42:21,520 --> 00:42:26,160
Speaker 1: eleven fourteen, and that one worked much better. Um. And

759
00:42:26,520 --> 00:42:29,880
Speaker 1: like we said, the material they had, the equipment they

760
00:42:29,880 --> 00:42:34,160
Speaker 1: had was readily available, wasn't It wasn't as rare as

761
00:42:34,200 --> 00:42:36,239
Speaker 1: you would think it would be. No. Dr Marcus, the

762
00:42:36,280 --> 00:42:39,720
Speaker 1: lead investigator, said that, uh, like a direct TV sized

763
00:42:39,760 --> 00:42:41,879
Speaker 1: antenna these days, it's about all you would have needed.

764
00:42:41,920 --> 00:42:44,720
Speaker 1: It's not like one of those like school bus size

765
00:42:44,920 --> 00:42:48,279
Speaker 1: Satillite used to see in backyards back in the day.

766
00:42:48,320 --> 00:42:52,480
Speaker 1: It's pretty incredible, Uh, the how little you would need

767
00:42:52,480 --> 00:42:58,160
Speaker 1: in order to do it. So fascinating attack, fascinating fact

768
00:42:58,200 --> 00:43:01,760
Speaker 1: that it they were able to do it without being caught. Um.

769
00:43:01,800 --> 00:43:04,520
Speaker 1: And the fact that you know, there weren't a whole

770
00:43:04,600 --> 00:43:07,839
Speaker 1: lot of broadcast intrusions after this point. You've heard about

771
00:43:07,880 --> 00:43:12,399
Speaker 1: maybe one or two. The Disney Channel has infamously been

772
00:43:12,440 --> 00:43:16,600
Speaker 1: the attack, the side of an attack on multiple occasions. Yeah.

773
00:43:16,640 --> 00:43:19,239
Speaker 1: I think the super Bowl was hijacked briefly few years

774
00:43:19,239 --> 00:43:23,080
Speaker 1: ago in one city only though. Yeah. Yeah, Uh, it's

775
00:43:23,200 --> 00:43:25,480
Speaker 1: it's harder and harder to do now because you've got

776
00:43:25,520 --> 00:43:30,080
Speaker 1: things like digital encoding. Yeah, that make it much much

777
00:43:30,120 --> 00:43:33,320
Speaker 1: more difficult for the average hacker to do. I'm surprised

778
00:43:33,320 --> 00:43:36,239
Speaker 1: it didn't happen more often back in those days. With

779
00:43:36,280 --> 00:43:38,719
Speaker 1: those early I think there's sort of the wild West.

780
00:43:38,840 --> 00:43:41,240
Speaker 1: It may very well have been that the scare tactics

781
00:43:41,480 --> 00:43:44,719
Speaker 1: the FCC used. We have totally worried, Like people said like, well,

782
00:43:44,760 --> 00:43:46,799
Speaker 1: I know I can do this, but I'm totally not

783
00:43:46,840 --> 00:43:50,280
Speaker 1: gonna do this. Um. And you know, we we talked

784
00:43:50,280 --> 00:43:53,640
Speaker 1: a little bit. Uh. There are some theories out there

785
00:43:53,640 --> 00:43:56,319
Speaker 1: about who it could have been responsible for this. My

786
00:43:56,400 --> 00:43:59,640
Speaker 1: favorite was the the one that is probably the easiest

787
00:43:59,680 --> 00:44:04,240
Speaker 1: to Smiths, which was Eric Fournier, who was a punk

788
00:44:04,360 --> 00:44:08,359
Speaker 1: rock musician as well as an avant garde artist who

789
00:44:08,440 --> 00:44:12,680
Speaker 1: created a series of videos. Um. It's funny because the

790
00:44:12,680 --> 00:44:16,080
Speaker 1: Motherboard article refers to it as a YouTube channel, but

791
00:44:16,120 --> 00:44:18,640
Speaker 1: in fact the videos pre date YouTube. Oh yeah, I

792
00:44:18,680 --> 00:44:21,080
Speaker 1: guess it is now on a YouTube channel. But they

793
00:44:21,120 --> 00:44:23,799
Speaker 1: were called shay U s h A y E St

794
00:44:23,920 --> 00:44:26,600
Speaker 1: John Sha st John. And if you look at these,

795
00:44:26,760 --> 00:44:29,839
Speaker 1: you you've forced me to earlier. Uh they do have

796
00:44:30,040 --> 00:44:36,480
Speaker 1: similar quality, um, very a similar feel almost absurd, surreal, disturbing.

797
00:44:36,560 --> 00:44:39,400
Speaker 1: Doesn't necessarily make much sense, you know. I think of

798
00:44:39,400 --> 00:44:41,880
Speaker 1: it like you you've seen the horror movies where they

799
00:44:42,400 --> 00:44:47,799
Speaker 1: all um center around like a creepy looking doll. Right,

800
00:44:47,880 --> 00:44:50,279
Speaker 1: that's a that's a genre unto itself. There's a brand

801
00:44:50,320 --> 00:44:53,960
Speaker 1: new one right about a doll Anabelle. Yeah. Yeah, so

802
00:44:54,320 --> 00:44:56,320
Speaker 1: that's the fact that I responded so quickly with that

803
00:44:56,480 --> 00:45:00,440
Speaker 1: is not good for me. But yeah, it's this idea

804
00:45:00,560 --> 00:45:05,400
Speaker 1: of things that look not quite right, and the Saint

805
00:45:05,480 --> 00:45:08,840
Speaker 1: John videos are all about that, and they involve the

806
00:45:08,960 --> 00:45:14,160
Speaker 1: looping of certain phrases over and over again, experiments and

807
00:45:14,440 --> 00:45:20,080
Speaker 1: lighting experiments in uh camera angles as well as digital effects,

808
00:45:20,320 --> 00:45:23,040
Speaker 1: or maybe not even digital effects, but special effects. The

809
00:45:23,080 --> 00:45:27,640
Speaker 1: earlier ones are actually more trippy the ones that are

810
00:45:27,880 --> 00:45:31,520
Speaker 1: on the YouTube channel itself. Um, so you can see

811
00:45:31,560 --> 00:45:36,799
Speaker 1: that the there's some shared uh aesthetics. Yeah, and he

812
00:45:36,840 --> 00:45:40,920
Speaker 1: lived in Indiana, apparently just a few hours from Chicago. Um,

813
00:45:40,920 --> 00:45:43,120
Speaker 1: he passed away in two thousand tens, so we'll never know.

814
00:45:43,320 --> 00:45:46,640
Speaker 1: I read one article that said that he admitted to

815
00:45:46,719 --> 00:45:49,080
Speaker 1: his friends that it was him, but I couldn't find

816
00:45:49,160 --> 00:45:53,200
Speaker 1: anything else to substantiate that. And the Motherboard article goes

817
00:45:53,239 --> 00:45:55,799
Speaker 1: so far as to suggest that that it's not him.

818
00:45:55,880 --> 00:45:58,600
Speaker 1: It's not him because his friends all said he at

819
00:45:58,600 --> 00:46:01,200
Speaker 1: that time, in nineteen seven, he had no knowledge of

820
00:46:01,280 --> 00:46:05,080
Speaker 1: video editing. All the video stuff he did was later on.

821
00:46:05,200 --> 00:46:08,520
Speaker 1: It was in the late nineties, early two thousand's, so

822
00:46:08,840 --> 00:46:12,480
Speaker 1: it would make sense that, um, while it's the same

823
00:46:12,520 --> 00:46:15,919
Speaker 1: sort of kind of humor, it's not the same person. Yeah.

824
00:46:15,960 --> 00:46:19,359
Speaker 1: His old bandmate even said, you know, Eric didn't do this,

825
00:46:19,400 --> 00:46:21,360
Speaker 1: but he would have loved it. Yeah, he would have

826
00:46:21,400 --> 00:46:24,600
Speaker 1: thought it was really funny. Yeah. Yeah, and there's another

827
00:46:25,400 --> 00:46:28,319
Speaker 1: theory that ice per sal And read it. Yeah, that's

828
00:46:28,360 --> 00:46:32,160
Speaker 1: how I saw the link to Motherboard and you sent

829
00:46:32,239 --> 00:46:33,719
Speaker 1: me the link and I saw it and read it

830
00:46:33,760 --> 00:46:36,239
Speaker 1: as well. Yeah, this one holds some water to me.

831
00:46:36,400 --> 00:46:42,080
Speaker 1: Unless this guy Bowie J is that Poe Poagg one

832
00:46:42,080 --> 00:46:47,319
Speaker 1: of the two, Unless he is just making all this

833
00:46:47,400 --> 00:46:50,960
Speaker 1: stuff up. This otherwise this sounds like a pretty decent lead. Yeah,

834
00:46:51,000 --> 00:46:53,640
Speaker 1: I've heard. I've heard some people suggest that that perhaps

835
00:46:53,719 --> 00:46:55,839
Speaker 1: the guy himself is the one who did it, and

836
00:46:55,880 --> 00:46:59,880
Speaker 1: he's invented these personas to be the way of him

837
00:47:00,000 --> 00:47:02,319
Speaker 1: explaining how it was done without actually admitting that he

838
00:47:02,360 --> 00:47:05,640
Speaker 1: did it. But he he maintains his innocence. He says, No,

839
00:47:05,760 --> 00:47:09,439
Speaker 1: I really, all of the evidence I have is purely circumstantial.

840
00:47:09,480 --> 00:47:12,120
Speaker 1: I was thirteen when this happened, which to me suggests

841
00:47:12,120 --> 00:47:14,120
Speaker 1: that it's not him. It does not seem like a

842
00:47:14,160 --> 00:47:18,799
Speaker 1: thirteen year old. The voice in the video is distorted,

843
00:47:18,920 --> 00:47:21,080
Speaker 1: but it does. It definitely seems like it's someone who's

844
00:47:21,120 --> 00:47:25,520
Speaker 1: older than that. Um. But he talks about uh, two

845
00:47:25,520 --> 00:47:30,160
Speaker 1: brothers and one brother he said. He described him as

846
00:47:30,239 --> 00:47:33,400
Speaker 1: seeming to be on the autism spectrum, and that he

847
00:47:33,440 --> 00:47:39,080
Speaker 1: had a very keen interest in broadcast spectrum and broadcast technology,

848
00:47:39,840 --> 00:47:43,759
Speaker 1: but didn't have very many social skills. Yeah, he was

849
00:47:43,880 --> 00:47:48,520
Speaker 1: the Yeah, he was very big as a thirteen year

850
00:47:48,560 --> 00:47:51,080
Speaker 1: old on that in that hacker scene, but trying it

851
00:47:51,120 --> 00:47:53,239
Speaker 1: sounded like really like one of the young ones trying

852
00:47:53,239 --> 00:47:56,399
Speaker 1: to ingratiate himself into the group, into the group. These

853
00:47:56,400 --> 00:47:59,440
Speaker 1: were a little older guys who were more experienced. Um.

854
00:47:59,480 --> 00:48:01,640
Speaker 1: He calls J and K which are not their names,

855
00:48:02,320 --> 00:48:05,319
Speaker 1: to provide their you know, to guard their anonymity. And

856
00:48:05,360 --> 00:48:08,319
Speaker 1: he said that Ja, who was supposedly the autistic one,

857
00:48:08,440 --> 00:48:10,719
Speaker 1: was m He's the one who says that was the

858
00:48:10,719 --> 00:48:13,799
Speaker 1: guy in the mask. They had the same build. He

859
00:48:13,920 --> 00:48:16,640
Speaker 1: references his brother in the video. Yeah, he says that

860
00:48:16,640 --> 00:48:19,239
Speaker 1: because he shows a glove and he says, uh, this

861
00:48:19,280 --> 00:48:22,440
Speaker 1: one is dirty. My brother is wearing the other one. Yeah,

862
00:48:22,480 --> 00:48:27,000
Speaker 1: he apparently. He says, this is from his Reddit. He said, Ah,

863
00:48:27,200 --> 00:48:30,280
Speaker 1: he liked to tell dirty jokes. The dirty jokes were funny,

864
00:48:30,280 --> 00:48:32,400
Speaker 1: at least to me. Is a thirteen year old and

865
00:48:32,480 --> 00:48:35,479
Speaker 1: a woman dressed up as Antioakley swatting someone's bare butt

866
00:48:35,480 --> 00:48:38,560
Speaker 1: with a fly swatter is a perfect reflection of his

867
00:48:38,640 --> 00:48:42,600
Speaker 1: sense of humor. Uh. It was usually childish and sexually deviant.

868
00:48:43,200 --> 00:48:46,040
Speaker 1: And he talked about how he had kind of a

869
00:48:46,160 --> 00:48:49,600
Speaker 1: verbal tick that instead of saying uh, when he was

870
00:48:49,600 --> 00:48:52,440
Speaker 1: trying to think of something, he'd say oh yeah, And

871
00:48:52,480 --> 00:48:56,279
Speaker 1: that if you listen to the video, there's some there's

872
00:48:56,280 --> 00:48:58,400
Speaker 1: a yeah. There's a lot of him kind of making

873
00:48:58,440 --> 00:49:03,040
Speaker 1: oh noises between when he's saying things. So it does

874
00:49:03,120 --> 00:49:05,120
Speaker 1: kind of come across as someone who's trying to think

875
00:49:05,160 --> 00:49:07,840
Speaker 1: of the next thing to say. Like, it didn't feel

876
00:49:07,840 --> 00:49:09,840
Speaker 1: like it certainly does not feel that the Max Headroom

877
00:49:09,880 --> 00:49:12,960
Speaker 1: incident was terribly scripted, Like I think it was a

878
00:49:13,000 --> 00:49:18,680
Speaker 1: lot off the cup. Yeah. So the the other brother,

879
00:49:18,840 --> 00:49:25,279
Speaker 1: Kay was Jay's caretaker uh and also was possibly the

880
00:49:25,719 --> 00:49:27,920
Speaker 1: theory seems to be that Kay was the one working

881
00:49:27,960 --> 00:49:31,600
Speaker 1: the camera, that Ja was the one on camera, and

882
00:49:31,640 --> 00:49:34,960
Speaker 1: that Kay's girlfriend was the one with the fly swatter,

883
00:49:35,800 --> 00:49:39,120
Speaker 1: and again all of this ends up being circumstantial evidence.

884
00:49:39,360 --> 00:49:42,959
Speaker 1: He said that, as Pogue said, as a thirteen year old,

885
00:49:43,160 --> 00:49:46,759
Speaker 1: he went to this apartment that was just filled with equipment.

886
00:49:47,560 --> 00:49:50,400
Speaker 1: He says that there was nothing, you know, no normal

887
00:49:50,440 --> 00:49:53,120
Speaker 1: decorations except like a rainbow kite or something in there.

888
00:49:53,160 --> 00:49:57,799
Speaker 1: Everything else was electronic equipment, and that they were the

889
00:49:57,840 --> 00:50:01,959
Speaker 1: people they were talking about something but not explicitly talking about,

890
00:50:02,040 --> 00:50:04,319
Speaker 1: just saying that something big was gonna happen and that

891
00:50:04,440 --> 00:50:07,800
Speaker 1: he should definitely make sure to be watching channel nine

892
00:50:08,360 --> 00:50:11,319
Speaker 1: at nine pm, Uh like w g N at nine

893
00:50:11,400 --> 00:50:13,640
Speaker 1: pm so he could see the big thing that was

894
00:50:13,640 --> 00:50:16,640
Speaker 1: going to happen, and that he claims he didn't even

895
00:50:16,719 --> 00:50:18,719
Speaker 1: put two and two together. Ye like, he saw the

896
00:50:18,760 --> 00:50:21,360
Speaker 1: incident go down and knew that something big was going

897
00:50:21,440 --> 00:50:23,839
Speaker 1: to happen, which does seem a little hinky to me,

898
00:50:23,920 --> 00:50:26,440
Speaker 1: but he says years later as when it all kind

899
00:50:26,440 --> 00:50:29,600
Speaker 1: of connected for me, Yeah, it seems a little weird.

900
00:50:29,680 --> 00:50:31,239
Speaker 1: That does seem a little weird to me too, but

901
00:50:31,360 --> 00:50:33,520
Speaker 1: he said. He does go on to defend himself a

902
00:50:33,520 --> 00:50:36,919
Speaker 1: bit and say, you know that there were I heard

903
00:50:37,360 --> 00:50:39,719
Speaker 1: a dozen things from them a day that we're just

904
00:50:39,760 --> 00:50:42,560
Speaker 1: sort of weird and out there, and it wouldn't register

905
00:50:42,600 --> 00:50:44,759
Speaker 1: as anything big to me. With they said, you know,

906
00:50:44,760 --> 00:50:46,600
Speaker 1: we're gonna do something big watch the TV tonight. So

907
00:50:46,640 --> 00:50:48,520
Speaker 1: in other words, they were a bunch of big talkers,

908
00:50:48,560 --> 00:50:51,640
Speaker 1: but not Yeah, this is a kid he's trying to

909
00:50:51,680 --> 00:50:53,560
Speaker 1: fit in. He you know, it sounds like he was

910
00:50:53,600 --> 00:50:55,800
Speaker 1: kind of nervous hanging around this crowd, eager to please.

911
00:50:55,880 --> 00:50:59,120
Speaker 1: Yeah exactly. Yeah, Well, at any rate, he's the one

912
00:50:59,160 --> 00:51:02,560
Speaker 1: who on Reddit just laid out the situation and explained

913
00:51:03,360 --> 00:51:06,800
Speaker 1: what he thought had happened based upon circumstantial evidence. Again,

914
00:51:06,800 --> 00:51:10,320
Speaker 1: he never witnessed any of this himself, according to his account,

915
00:51:10,400 --> 00:51:11,920
Speaker 1: and it kind of blew up on Reddit, didn't it?

916
00:51:11,960 --> 00:51:14,960
Speaker 1: I did? It did, And he gave specific updates, and

917
00:51:14,960 --> 00:51:18,239
Speaker 1: in fact, he was interviewed heavily for the Motherboard article. Yeah,

918
00:51:18,480 --> 00:51:21,200
Speaker 1: and he explained that he tried to get in touch

919
00:51:21,239 --> 00:51:25,759
Speaker 1: with j and k Um through multiple media, like he

920
00:51:25,800 --> 00:51:29,680
Speaker 1: knows where they are still, Yep. He sent them Facebook messages,

921
00:51:29,719 --> 00:51:32,600
Speaker 1: he sent an email, and he sent them actual snail

922
00:51:32,680 --> 00:51:35,160
Speaker 1: mail right and didn't get any response. And he says,

923
00:51:35,239 --> 00:51:38,920
Speaker 1: I'm taking that as a indication that they don't want

924
00:51:39,000 --> 00:51:41,239
Speaker 1: to talk about this, and so, out of respect for

925
00:51:41,280 --> 00:51:45,000
Speaker 1: their privacy, I'm dropping it. And so he never revealed

926
00:51:45,239 --> 00:51:47,719
Speaker 1: the identities of the people. Now, he did have other

927
00:51:47,800 --> 00:51:50,520
Speaker 1: people on the Reddit the said they were around that

928
00:51:50,600 --> 00:51:53,399
Speaker 1: same scene back then, and it sort of checks out

929
00:51:53,440 --> 00:51:55,880
Speaker 1: the guy had a similar ability short of shortened squatty

930
00:51:56,480 --> 00:51:58,400
Speaker 1: and um, so he had a little bit of support.

931
00:51:58,480 --> 00:52:01,960
Speaker 1: But it's all sort substantial and conjecture. You know, there's

932
00:52:02,000 --> 00:52:05,040
Speaker 1: obviously no proof, no smoking gun. Right, So we may

933
00:52:05,200 --> 00:52:08,080
Speaker 1: never know for sure who did this. We'll have someone

934
00:52:08,080 --> 00:52:09,959
Speaker 1: will have to come forward, that's the only way. Yeah,

935
00:52:09,960 --> 00:52:13,120
Speaker 1: but it's one of those mysteries that is really interesting

936
00:52:13,160 --> 00:52:16,400
Speaker 1: to read about. To to and the fact that it

937
00:52:16,400 --> 00:52:18,920
Speaker 1: it's still you know, you can you can watch the video.

938
00:52:19,000 --> 00:52:22,520
Speaker 1: You can actually see what happened. It's kind of cool

939
00:52:22,520 --> 00:52:24,760
Speaker 1: because there are a lot of these these weird moments

940
00:52:24,840 --> 00:52:27,120
Speaker 1: you just have second or third hand accounts and you

941
00:52:27,160 --> 00:52:29,920
Speaker 1: can't you can't really experience it for yourself. You have

942
00:52:29,960 --> 00:52:31,680
Speaker 1: to think, oh, what would it have been like? But

943
00:52:31,719 --> 00:52:33,759
Speaker 1: now you can actually see. Yeah, it's a pretty neat

944
00:52:33,760 --> 00:52:36,759
Speaker 1: little time capsule experience, especially if you grew up in

945
00:52:36,800 --> 00:52:38,759
Speaker 1: the eighties. Right, And if you don't know who Max

946
00:52:38,800 --> 00:52:40,560
Speaker 1: Headroom is, then maybe you should do some research on

947
00:52:40,600 --> 00:52:43,480
Speaker 1: that first and then watch the video to understand how

948
00:52:43,520 --> 00:52:45,400
Speaker 1: weird this was. That b B show, I'm telling you

949
00:52:45,440 --> 00:52:49,240
Speaker 1: it's pretty good. People should watch that. Yeah, totally. Well, Chuck,

950
00:52:49,320 --> 00:52:51,440
Speaker 1: I have to thank you for coming on the show

951
00:52:51,480 --> 00:52:54,840
Speaker 1: and for suggesting this. This was a ton of fun too.

952
00:52:54,960 --> 00:52:56,680
Speaker 1: I love on stuff you should know doing our more

953
00:52:56,760 --> 00:52:59,759
Speaker 1: history centric ones and this this is totally a history

954
00:52:59,800 --> 00:53:03,279
Speaker 1: pie podcast. When you think about it for history episode. Yeah, absolutely,

955
00:53:03,480 --> 00:53:07,000
Speaker 1: and uh it was It's one of the weirdest ones

956
00:53:07,040 --> 00:53:09,400
Speaker 1: that I've covered this and Number Stations those would be

957
00:53:09,440 --> 00:53:12,080
Speaker 1: the two big ones. Yeah, man, those are super interesting. Yeah,

958
00:53:12,320 --> 00:53:15,360
Speaker 1: very creepy stuff. If by the way, if you guys

959
00:53:15,560 --> 00:53:18,440
Speaker 1: do love the creepy go back and listen to the

960
00:53:18,560 --> 00:53:22,000
Speaker 1: Number Station episode on Tech Stuff. Go to our RSS

961
00:53:22,080 --> 00:53:25,080
Speaker 1: feed and hunt that one up because that one was

962
00:53:25,120 --> 00:53:27,279
Speaker 1: a lot of fun to talk about. Uh. And if

963
00:53:27,280 --> 00:53:29,240
Speaker 1: you're really into creepy stuff, you know, Stuff you Should

964
00:53:29,239 --> 00:53:32,560
Speaker 1: Know has got quite a few episodes that that cover

965
00:53:32,680 --> 00:53:35,719
Speaker 1: the creepy too, and you guys do an amazing job

966
00:53:35,760 --> 00:53:39,799
Speaker 1: of it. Thanks man. Yeah, it's it's uh a fantastic show.

967
00:53:39,840 --> 00:53:42,480
Speaker 1: If you have not listened to Stuff you Should Know,

968
00:53:43,600 --> 00:53:46,239
Speaker 1: fix that. Come on, well, thanks for having me and dude,

969
00:53:46,280 --> 00:53:48,360
Speaker 1: this has been a it's woody, Allen would say, a

970
00:53:48,440 --> 00:53:54,480
Speaker 1: sincere sensation. Pan. I like that. I like that quote. Alright, So, guys,

971
00:53:54,480 --> 00:53:57,200
Speaker 1: if you have any suggestions for future episodes of Tech Stuff,

972
00:53:57,480 --> 00:53:58,560
Speaker 1: you just want to get in touch with me and

973
00:53:58,600 --> 00:54:01,239
Speaker 1: you want to maybe suggest a topic for me to

974
00:54:01,280 --> 00:54:03,680
Speaker 1: talk about the future, or maybe another guest to have

975
00:54:03,800 --> 00:54:06,560
Speaker 1: on the show. Send me an email. My address is

976
00:54:06,640 --> 00:54:09,120
Speaker 1: tech stuff at how stuff works dot com, or drop

977
00:54:09,160 --> 00:54:12,239
Speaker 1: me a line on Facebook, Twitter or Tumbler to handle it.

978
00:54:12,360 --> 00:54:15,680
Speaker 1: All three is tech Stuff hs W and we'll talk

979
00:54:15,680 --> 00:54:21,719
Speaker 1: to you again really soon for more on this and

980
00:54:21,800 --> 00:54:24,359
Speaker 1: thousands of other topics because it has stuff works dot

981
00:54:24,360 --> 00:54:34,280
Speaker 1: com