1
00:00:00,480 --> 00:00:03,320
Speaker 1: Ridiculous crime. It's a production of iHeartRadio.

2
00:00:03,880 --> 00:00:09,280
Speaker 2: Elizabeth, and I said I did like the millennial miss

3
00:00:10,080 --> 00:00:12,400
Speaker 2: So I got a question for you, miss Dan. Do

4
00:00:12,400 --> 00:00:13,320
Speaker 2: you know what's ridiculous?

5
00:00:13,360 --> 00:00:17,759
Speaker 3: I do? I do aperol sprits. You've had one before, right, yeah?

6
00:00:17,760 --> 00:00:18,119
Speaker 2: I think so.

7
00:00:18,480 --> 00:00:21,200
Speaker 3: It's got apparol, which is like a bitter sweet orange

8
00:00:21,239 --> 00:00:26,960
Speaker 3: liqueur prosecco. Just you know, the Champagne of Italy, soda

9
00:00:27,040 --> 00:00:30,840
Speaker 3: water and orange slice. Yes, right, although when when I

10
00:00:30,880 --> 00:00:33,640
Speaker 3: was in Venice and having too many of them, they

11
00:00:33,720 --> 00:00:35,520
Speaker 3: put green olives up in there.

12
00:00:36,120 --> 00:00:38,040
Speaker 2: It's pretty good.

13
00:00:37,040 --> 00:00:40,640
Speaker 3: I don't like all so that's just like it was

14
00:00:41,200 --> 00:00:42,479
Speaker 3: an interesting.

15
00:00:42,120 --> 00:00:43,839
Speaker 2: Do they make a dirty apparol sprits?

16
00:00:43,920 --> 00:00:46,320
Speaker 3: That's probably with the olives a little in a little

17
00:00:46,400 --> 00:00:51,200
Speaker 3: Venetian canal water? So anyway, there's also now there's another

18
00:00:51,320 --> 00:00:53,400
Speaker 3: version that's the Italian drinks. You know what the American

19
00:00:53,479 --> 00:00:54,000
Speaker 3: version is?

20
00:00:54,240 --> 00:00:55,040
Speaker 2: Do I want to know this?

21
00:00:55,280 --> 00:01:00,880
Speaker 3: Yeah? So it's appaol, right, you have the citrus except

22
00:01:00,880 --> 00:01:04,480
Speaker 3: for an orange, used lemon, and instead of prosecco you

23
00:01:04,600 --> 00:01:05,880
Speaker 3: use Miller High Life.

24
00:01:06,120 --> 00:01:07,840
Speaker 2: Oh god, the Champagne of beers.

25
00:01:07,920 --> 00:01:10,679
Speaker 3: Right, and it's called a spaghett you're kidding me? No,

26
00:01:10,720 --> 00:01:13,360
Speaker 3: I'm not kidding it. It's called a Spaghett Miller high life.

27
00:01:13,360 --> 00:01:16,039
Speaker 3: Like they're wilding out right. They made that record of

28
00:01:16,120 --> 00:01:18,360
Speaker 3: bar Noises, all right, yeah.

29
00:01:18,280 --> 00:01:19,679
Speaker 2: You know I support them generally.

30
00:01:19,760 --> 00:01:21,440
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, well I feel like they were like, you know,

31
00:01:21,560 --> 00:01:25,679
Speaker 3: the millennials loved us, and they truck her hats and

32
00:01:25,680 --> 00:01:27,800
Speaker 3: and they're like come back, like no one drinks anymore,

33
00:01:27,880 --> 00:01:30,840
Speaker 3: come on, So they went one step further. Zerin it's

34
00:01:30,880 --> 00:01:32,080
Speaker 3: the Spaghett Sicle.

35
00:01:32,280 --> 00:01:33,280
Speaker 2: You weren't such a good run.

36
00:01:33,480 --> 00:01:37,280
Speaker 3: I know, it's the Spaghett Sicle. So it's the Spaghett cocktail,

37
00:01:37,319 --> 00:01:41,560
Speaker 3: but in a push like frozen push pop and uh yeah,

38
00:01:41,560 --> 00:01:44,160
Speaker 3: so you can order them if you want. It's seventy

39
00:01:44,240 --> 00:01:51,440
Speaker 3: nine dollars for six packs. You really really love your friends.

40
00:01:51,640 --> 00:01:52,320
Speaker 3: This comes to us.

41
00:01:52,320 --> 00:01:53,280
Speaker 2: That's an expensive joke.

42
00:01:53,640 --> 00:01:57,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, this comes from us. From from Andrew Bowman on Instagram.

43
00:01:57,520 --> 00:01:59,640
Speaker 3: He's a member of the Subaru Forster Gang ps.

44
00:02:00,000 --> 00:02:01,120
Speaker 2: Oh wow, doubled up.

45
00:02:01,080 --> 00:02:06,120
Speaker 3: Yeah double so. Yeah, spagatsicle ridiculous.

46
00:02:05,480 --> 00:02:07,720
Speaker 2: Ridiculous and I'm gonna forgive that. That's a mashup. I know.

47
00:02:07,760 --> 00:02:12,639
Speaker 3: I did that as fast as I could ripped it off.

48
00:02:12,800 --> 00:02:13,360
Speaker 2: Thank you.

49
00:02:13,360 --> 00:02:13,920
Speaker 3: You're welcome.

50
00:02:14,280 --> 00:02:16,799
Speaker 2: Well you're here. I got something for you. You want

51
00:02:16,840 --> 00:02:19,120
Speaker 2: to allow else is ridiculous? Yeah, okay, Elizabeth, I know

52
00:02:19,120 --> 00:02:21,080
Speaker 2: you're familiar with the saying there, but for the grace

53
00:02:21,120 --> 00:02:23,600
Speaker 2: of God go I yes, right. Out of all the

54
00:02:23,600 --> 00:02:25,400
Speaker 2: stories we've told here, I think this one feels very

55
00:02:25,480 --> 00:02:26,320
Speaker 2: much like that for me.

56
00:02:26,720 --> 00:02:27,000
Speaker 3: Really.

57
00:02:27,160 --> 00:02:29,679
Speaker 2: Yeah, In short, I relate to this cat, right. He's

58
00:02:29,720 --> 00:02:31,880
Speaker 2: this loner. He's raised by a father who trains him

59
00:02:31,880 --> 00:02:34,200
Speaker 2: and prepares him for the world, but such that when

60
00:02:34,200 --> 00:02:37,320
Speaker 2: he's faced with authority figures, he resists them, and like,

61
00:02:37,400 --> 00:02:39,880
Speaker 2: even if it cost him damn near everything. Yeah, so

62
00:02:40,040 --> 00:02:42,480
Speaker 2: I get that right, And well, I'll just put it

63
00:02:42,480 --> 00:02:44,320
Speaker 2: this way. You're ready for the mad story of a

64
00:02:44,360 --> 00:02:45,680
Speaker 2: prison escape artist.

65
00:02:46,520 --> 00:02:47,600
Speaker 3: Always ready for that.

66
00:03:08,240 --> 00:03:13,320
Speaker 2: This is Ridiculous Crime, a podcast about absurd and outrageous capers,

67
00:03:13,400 --> 00:03:17,760
Speaker 2: heist and cons is. It's always ninety percent murder free

68
00:03:17,800 --> 00:03:24,360
Speaker 2: and what one hundred percent ridiculous ridiculous? Oh, Elizabeth, Like

69
00:03:24,400 --> 00:03:26,600
Speaker 2: I said up top, this is a wild ride, and

70
00:03:26,639 --> 00:03:28,160
Speaker 2: I guess the best way to put it is just

71
00:03:28,560 --> 00:03:33,720
Speaker 2: buckle up, Buttercup. I'd like you to meet Mark Defriest. Hello, Mark,

72
00:03:33,800 --> 00:03:37,240
Speaker 2: aka the Houdini of Florida. Known for that for his

73
00:03:37,320 --> 00:03:40,480
Speaker 2: Houdini like escapes in Florida. In Florida exactly. I figured

74
00:03:40,520 --> 00:03:43,160
Speaker 2: you'd catch on to that album quick. He could wriggle

75
00:03:43,160 --> 00:03:45,640
Speaker 2: out of straight jackets, he could slip free a handcuffs,

76
00:03:45,680 --> 00:03:48,360
Speaker 2: leg irons. What you got He is a water certified

77
00:03:48,880 --> 00:03:52,440
Speaker 2: escape artist. No, he's not that part of Yeah, he's

78
00:03:52,480 --> 00:03:54,160
Speaker 2: not so committed to the Houdini bit.

79
00:03:54,280 --> 00:03:56,640
Speaker 3: We'll give it a little time. That's charming.

80
00:03:57,000 --> 00:03:58,640
Speaker 2: Give him a crowd, let him see what he can do.

81
00:03:59,400 --> 00:04:02,840
Speaker 2: So Mark he was born in rural Florida back in

82
00:04:02,880 --> 00:04:06,720
Speaker 2: August of nineteen sixty and a former prison warden at

83
00:04:06,720 --> 00:04:10,000
Speaker 2: the Florida State Prison, which is a real crazy place.

84
00:04:10,560 --> 00:04:13,400
Speaker 2: A man named Ron McAndrew once said, quote, I've met

85
00:04:13,400 --> 00:04:15,440
Speaker 2: a lot of brilliant people in my time, but I've

86
00:04:15,440 --> 00:04:18,600
Speaker 2: only met one, Mark Defriest. His brilliance is so great

87
00:04:18,640 --> 00:04:21,560
Speaker 2: that it's hard to describe. So that's a challenge I'm

88
00:04:21,600 --> 00:04:23,440
Speaker 2: up against today. I'm going to try to describe that

89
00:04:23,560 --> 00:04:23,920
Speaker 2: to you.

90
00:04:24,040 --> 00:04:24,440
Speaker 3: Got it.

91
00:04:24,960 --> 00:04:27,240
Speaker 2: He's what some folks would call a savant. He's also

92
00:04:27,360 --> 00:04:30,000
Speaker 2: he was a child prodigy. He's a true rare one

93
00:04:30,360 --> 00:04:34,440
Speaker 2: by many folks estimation. This prison escape artist is the

94
00:04:34,440 --> 00:04:39,560
Speaker 2: result of his misunderstood autistic soul. Now, let's start way

95
00:04:39,600 --> 00:04:41,839
Speaker 2: back when he was a boy. At the age of six,

96
00:04:41,960 --> 00:04:44,920
Speaker 2: Mark was known to take apart watches, clocks and then

97
00:04:44,960 --> 00:04:47,000
Speaker 2: put them back together, unlike me, who would take them

98
00:04:47,000 --> 00:04:49,919
Speaker 2: apart and just have a bunch of parts everywhere. So

99
00:04:50,040 --> 00:04:52,120
Speaker 2: all by himself at six he could do this right,

100
00:04:52,120 --> 00:04:57,760
Speaker 2: But not only that. His mechanical genius extended such to motors, engines, telephones,

101
00:04:57,800 --> 00:05:00,920
Speaker 2: transistor radios. He's like, if it moved, it's got you know,

102
00:05:01,000 --> 00:05:03,159
Speaker 2: dials and knobs and stuff. I can take it apart

103
00:05:03,240 --> 00:05:04,040
Speaker 2: put it back together.

104
00:05:04,120 --> 00:05:08,000
Speaker 3: He had that like spatial uh like understanding of things.

105
00:05:08,080 --> 00:05:10,680
Speaker 3: How he look connects together one hundred percent.

106
00:05:10,680 --> 00:05:12,279
Speaker 2: He had like that tesla, I can see it in

107
00:05:12,320 --> 00:05:13,839
Speaker 2: my mind, I can take it apart and put it

108
00:05:13,880 --> 00:05:17,160
Speaker 2: back together kind of saying going on totally well. For instance,

109
00:05:17,240 --> 00:05:19,480
Speaker 2: later on, when he was a little older, he once

110
00:05:19,600 --> 00:05:23,080
Speaker 2: bugged his stepsister's room and he didn't bug it like, oh,

111
00:05:23,279 --> 00:05:26,480
Speaker 2: I can hear what she's doing. He rewired her telephone

112
00:05:26,520 --> 00:05:29,120
Speaker 2: so that her calls were broadcast by a loud speaker

113
00:05:29,120 --> 00:05:32,200
Speaker 2: he'd set up out on the street for an amused audience.

114
00:05:32,200 --> 00:05:33,080
Speaker 2: Of neighborhood kids.

115
00:05:33,120 --> 00:05:35,679
Speaker 3: Oh no, yeah.

116
00:05:35,520 --> 00:05:37,680
Speaker 2: He was kind of like you, an agent of chaos,

117
00:05:38,360 --> 00:05:40,520
Speaker 2: or as Mark puts it, quote, I was a wild child.

118
00:05:40,600 --> 00:05:42,320
Speaker 2: You know. They tried to get me to interact with

119
00:05:42,360 --> 00:05:44,480
Speaker 2: other people, other children, and I was more interested in

120
00:05:44,560 --> 00:05:47,640
Speaker 2: how things work. Right. So they're in the basement of

121
00:05:47,640 --> 00:05:50,120
Speaker 2: his parents' house. He built for himself his own little

122
00:05:50,120 --> 00:05:53,720
Speaker 2: private laboratory, and I'm talking he would experiment with chemistry sets,

123
00:05:53,800 --> 00:05:55,960
Speaker 2: electronic sets that kind of used to be able to

124
00:05:55,960 --> 00:05:58,280
Speaker 2: buy it like radio shack. Yeah, rip, Oh man, do

125
00:05:58,320 --> 00:06:01,240
Speaker 2: I miss radio Shack, the old day dream store. You

126
00:06:01,279 --> 00:06:02,120
Speaker 2: went to radio Shack?

127
00:06:02,200 --> 00:06:02,320
Speaker 4: Right?

128
00:06:02,400 --> 00:06:02,479
Speaker 2: Oh?

129
00:06:02,560 --> 00:06:03,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, totally.

130
00:06:03,279 --> 00:06:05,720
Speaker 2: Do you have any favorite like things about it you remember,

131
00:06:05,839 --> 00:06:07,400
Speaker 2: like you know, just like oh, I would go in

132
00:06:07,440 --> 00:06:08,440
Speaker 2: and see such and such that.

133
00:06:09,800 --> 00:06:13,680
Speaker 3: At a very young age became obsessed with police scanners

134
00:06:14,400 --> 00:06:18,880
Speaker 3: that so well. My grandmother had one, and I loved

135
00:06:18,960 --> 00:06:20,960
Speaker 3: like getting into her bed in the evening and listening

136
00:06:21,040 --> 00:06:24,840
Speaker 3: to the scanner because it's like the best gossip and

137
00:06:24,920 --> 00:06:27,280
Speaker 3: like you just you hear all sorts of wild stuff

138
00:06:27,480 --> 00:06:30,320
Speaker 3: that's like not going to make the paper crazy story totally.

139
00:06:30,400 --> 00:06:32,040
Speaker 2: It's like the subterranean soap opera.

140
00:06:32,160 --> 00:06:34,719
Speaker 3: Yes and so and then we also there was a

141
00:06:34,800 --> 00:06:38,360
Speaker 3: time too when early cell phone days. My uncle had

142
00:06:38,360 --> 00:06:41,239
Speaker 3: a cell phone that had all these channels. Oh yeah,

143
00:06:41,279 --> 00:06:43,160
Speaker 3: and she and I used to sit there in the

144
00:06:43,200 --> 00:06:46,000
Speaker 3: evening and flip through and listen to other people's calls.

145
00:06:47,240 --> 00:06:48,279
Speaker 3: This is in Las Vegas.

146
00:06:48,320 --> 00:06:49,920
Speaker 2: You guys are crazy.

147
00:06:50,520 --> 00:06:52,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, and like you know, you're in Vegas and you're

148
00:06:52,520 --> 00:06:55,200
Speaker 3: hearing cell phones. Oh yeah, you're hearing conversations.

149
00:06:55,200 --> 00:06:55,880
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah.

150
00:06:55,880 --> 00:06:56,520
Speaker 3: We had a great time.

151
00:06:56,560 --> 00:06:58,360
Speaker 2: Do you guys ever have to testify for the FBI.

152
00:06:58,320 --> 00:07:01,240
Speaker 3: I'm surprised we didn't, but yeah, anyway, radio shack, it

153
00:07:01,320 --> 00:07:02,599
Speaker 3: was like, oh, if you want to like get a

154
00:07:02,640 --> 00:07:05,200
Speaker 3: police scanner, that's your joint right there.

155
00:07:05,200 --> 00:07:07,359
Speaker 2: That was the best. Well, as he tells it, his

156
00:07:07,440 --> 00:07:11,280
Speaker 2: basement lab was quote like doctor Frankenstein's science fuction laboratory.

157
00:07:11,320 --> 00:07:13,960
Speaker 2: It's been days down there and a couple times, as

158
00:07:13,960 --> 00:07:16,760
Speaker 2: he puts it, I blew myself up. Oh no, oh yeah,

159
00:07:16,800 --> 00:07:19,440
Speaker 2: he was that kid. Now. The majority of quotes from

160
00:07:19,480 --> 00:07:22,120
Speaker 2: Mark that will will be featured in this episode come

161
00:07:22,120 --> 00:07:25,760
Speaker 2: from a documentary by filmmaker Gabriel London called The Mind

162
00:07:25,800 --> 00:07:28,440
Speaker 2: of Mark de Friest, came back out in twenty fourteen.

163
00:07:28,520 --> 00:07:31,520
Speaker 2: I highly recommend it. Now, in my telling of Mark's

164
00:07:31,520 --> 00:07:33,280
Speaker 2: life story, I'll be leaving out some of the more

165
00:07:33,320 --> 00:07:35,760
Speaker 2: brutal periods of his life in prison, thank you, not

166
00:07:35,840 --> 00:07:39,160
Speaker 2: for what he did. It's not like it like one situation. No,

167
00:07:39,280 --> 00:07:40,840
Speaker 2: it's due to what was done to him.

168
00:07:40,960 --> 00:07:42,800
Speaker 3: I can't take stuff these days.

169
00:07:42,920 --> 00:07:44,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, I know you can't, So I left that out.

170
00:07:44,520 --> 00:07:47,480
Speaker 2: And also the documentary just so listeners, no, doesn't skip

171
00:07:47,560 --> 00:07:49,280
Speaker 2: over those, so if you check it, be warned.

172
00:07:49,360 --> 00:07:51,640
Speaker 3: Yeah. Well, I mean that's the thing. It's like they're fuller.

173
00:07:51,640 --> 00:07:55,080
Speaker 3: Every story that we tell has fuller pictures around it. Yes,

174
00:07:55,120 --> 00:07:57,840
Speaker 3: and we're telling you the safe ridiculous.

175
00:07:57,280 --> 00:08:00,440
Speaker 2: Parts often yeah, yeah, any time that there's like especially

176
00:08:00,440 --> 00:08:02,080
Speaker 2: a one percent. But in his case that's not the case.

177
00:08:02,120 --> 00:08:05,120
Speaker 3: It's just some brutality, trauma and tality. Exactly what's the

178
00:08:05,120 --> 00:08:07,400
Speaker 3: point of sharing that with everybody? You know, let's hear

179
00:08:07,440 --> 00:08:07,920
Speaker 3: the funn.

180
00:08:07,880 --> 00:08:08,680
Speaker 2: Nothing funny about it.

181
00:08:08,760 --> 00:08:09,360
Speaker 3: Yeah.

182
00:08:09,440 --> 00:08:12,040
Speaker 2: Anyway, back to Mark Defriest in his childhood, a lot

183
00:08:12,040 --> 00:08:14,840
Speaker 2: of how he is can be traced back to his upbringing,

184
00:08:15,240 --> 00:08:17,640
Speaker 2: which we often find is the case with the criminals

185
00:08:17,640 --> 00:08:20,800
Speaker 2: we cover. Now, in Mark's case, there is his father, Everett.

186
00:08:20,920 --> 00:08:24,600
Speaker 2: He was very much like Mark. His stepsister Barbie Taylor

187
00:08:24,840 --> 00:08:28,240
Speaker 2: compared him to Indiana Jones. She said, quote, if it

188
00:08:28,240 --> 00:08:31,840
Speaker 2: could be done, Everett could do it. You gotta love that. Now.

189
00:08:31,880 --> 00:08:34,080
Speaker 2: His father, Evertt, was a World War Two veteran. He

190
00:08:34,200 --> 00:08:37,000
Speaker 2: was also a spy in the OSS, which is the

191
00:08:37,120 --> 00:08:40,800
Speaker 2: organization that predated the CIA. Now the war changed Everett,

192
00:08:41,000 --> 00:08:44,640
Speaker 2: it reshaped him, it left him perpetually on edge. The

193
00:08:44,720 --> 00:08:48,400
Speaker 2: filmmaker for the documentary, Gabriel London, says, his father quote

194
00:08:48,760 --> 00:08:51,000
Speaker 2: believed that the Communists were coming, and he sort of

195
00:08:51,000 --> 00:08:53,280
Speaker 2: prepared his child, his only son, in a way to

196
00:08:53,320 --> 00:08:56,200
Speaker 2: be prepared for the Russians who were coming. Now, when

197
00:08:56,240 --> 00:08:59,160
Speaker 2: Mark tells of his father, the emphasis is a little different.

198
00:08:59,320 --> 00:09:02,160
Speaker 2: He said, and quote he was into that whole fifties

199
00:09:02,160 --> 00:09:05,679
Speaker 2: and sixties thing about the threads were coming in. Now,

200
00:09:05,800 --> 00:09:08,280
Speaker 2: that was really a whole cultural thing back then. That

201
00:09:08,640 --> 00:09:11,680
Speaker 2: dude was nuts. He really was. I never saw Russian

202
00:09:11,800 --> 00:09:14,320
Speaker 2: yet gives you a little.

203
00:09:14,240 --> 00:09:16,880
Speaker 3: Sounds like you're saying those of the war changed him.

204
00:09:16,920 --> 00:09:20,240
Speaker 3: I mean, my god, what we put people through. No

205
00:09:21,080 --> 00:09:23,280
Speaker 3: train them to go to war, even when they don't

206
00:09:23,320 --> 00:09:25,800
Speaker 3: wind up going. You break someone down and rebuild them.

207
00:09:25,840 --> 00:09:29,040
Speaker 3: And then when you send them into these traumatic situations.

208
00:09:29,600 --> 00:09:32,559
Speaker 3: You know, we every generation we call it something different,

209
00:09:33,040 --> 00:09:35,960
Speaker 3: but we break minds and then we're like, oh yeah,

210
00:09:36,000 --> 00:09:38,280
Speaker 3: go out and be in society and raise a family

211
00:09:38,360 --> 00:09:40,640
Speaker 3: and like to peoria deal with these pressures.

212
00:09:40,760 --> 00:09:42,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, and he was out there on the bleeding edge

213
00:09:42,400 --> 00:09:44,960
Speaker 2: of the war, spy stuff, behind the lines, that kind

214
00:09:44,960 --> 00:09:45,319
Speaker 2: of stuff.

215
00:09:45,400 --> 00:09:45,959
Speaker 3: Yeah.

216
00:09:46,000 --> 00:09:48,880
Speaker 2: Anyway, with his dad's obsession, what that meant for Mark

217
00:09:49,080 --> 00:09:51,160
Speaker 2: was quote, I was trained from the age of six

218
00:09:51,240 --> 00:09:56,720
Speaker 2: and guerrilla warfare, guns, explosives, bombs, anti tank rockets. Can

219
00:09:56,760 --> 00:09:59,520
Speaker 2: you imagine from the age of six six, Dad's like, okay,

220
00:10:00,000 --> 00:10:03,640
Speaker 2: he got the red wire, not the blue wire. Anyway,

221
00:10:03,679 --> 00:10:07,000
Speaker 2: this fuels his own paranoid self reliance. If you dropped

222
00:10:07,040 --> 00:10:09,680
Speaker 2: him behind enemy lines at age nine, he's getting home like.

223
00:10:09,720 --> 00:10:13,120
Speaker 3: Little boys, like the worst of people, like and stuff.

224
00:10:13,160 --> 00:10:17,720
Speaker 3: But that's a fantastic version of a fantasy version. He's

225
00:10:17,760 --> 00:10:20,440
Speaker 3: getting like the like uncensored version.

226
00:10:20,480 --> 00:10:22,480
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, like how to like feel dress your own.

227
00:10:22,360 --> 00:10:24,600
Speaker 3: Wounds and with the fear on top of it. It's

228
00:10:24,640 --> 00:10:28,440
Speaker 3: not told as an adventure story. It's told as a survival.

229
00:10:28,040 --> 00:10:31,400
Speaker 2: The reds are coming. Yeah. Now, next to Elizabeth, I'd

230
00:10:31,400 --> 00:10:33,360
Speaker 2: like you to meet his mother. She was the kind

231
00:10:33,360 --> 00:10:36,439
Speaker 2: of mom who would tickle the hell out of Alfred Hitchcock.

232
00:10:37,120 --> 00:10:38,839
Speaker 2: She was a real peach And I say that as

233
00:10:38,880 --> 00:10:42,600
Speaker 2: sarcastically as possible as Mark's first wife, Brenda put it.

234
00:10:42,720 --> 00:10:45,679
Speaker 2: Mark's mother, Marilyn was quote an ice cold.

235
00:10:46,000 --> 00:10:47,240
Speaker 3: Oh yeah.

236
00:10:47,320 --> 00:10:49,559
Speaker 2: Brenda also said, quote I thought that she didn't really

237
00:10:49,640 --> 00:10:52,160
Speaker 2: care for Mark. I saw no love, I saw no hugs.

238
00:10:52,360 --> 00:10:54,760
Speaker 2: I saw no I love you. I saw nothing of

239
00:10:54,760 --> 00:10:57,360
Speaker 2: that nature with her. So this is the world he's

240
00:10:57,640 --> 00:11:01,640
Speaker 2: raised in now naturally damaged people totally in these two charmers.

241
00:11:01,679 --> 00:11:04,400
Speaker 2: They eventually get divorced while he's still young, and as

242
00:11:04,440 --> 00:11:06,520
Speaker 2: a result, Mark gets sent away to a school for

243
00:11:06,679 --> 00:11:07,520
Speaker 2: wayward boys.

244
00:11:07,880 --> 00:11:09,280
Speaker 3: Oh he didn't go with either one.

245
00:11:09,360 --> 00:11:11,920
Speaker 2: No. Yeah. So, now, being trained as he was by

246
00:11:11,920 --> 00:11:14,320
Speaker 2: his father, Mark of course tries to escape that school

247
00:11:14,320 --> 00:11:17,720
Speaker 2: and run away. Yeah, and then along come his teenage years.

248
00:11:17,880 --> 00:11:20,160
Speaker 2: Mark then went through all of the expected rebellions that

249
00:11:20,240 --> 00:11:23,079
Speaker 2: come with it. But once again, he's well trained, so

250
00:11:23,320 --> 00:11:25,040
Speaker 2: he wasn't a big fan of the other kids or

251
00:11:25,160 --> 00:11:27,600
Speaker 2: other people. So it was no surprise that Mark eventually

252
00:11:27,640 --> 00:11:30,680
Speaker 2: ran into trouble with the law. He was first arrested

253
00:11:30,679 --> 00:11:32,840
Speaker 2: in nineteen seventy eight, and at the time he was

254
00:11:32,880 --> 00:11:36,120
Speaker 2: eighteen years old. So when he gets caught, he gets

255
00:11:36,160 --> 00:11:39,240
Speaker 2: real time. He's locked up for a year, and when

256
00:11:39,280 --> 00:11:40,840
Speaker 2: he gets out, he comes back to be with his

257
00:11:40,880 --> 00:11:43,480
Speaker 2: father and live in rural Florida again in a part

258
00:11:43,480 --> 00:11:46,520
Speaker 2: of Florida is called a Gadsden County. It's his rural area.

259
00:11:46,520 --> 00:11:50,640
Speaker 2: It's in the west of Tallahassee on the Florida Georgia line. Okay, right,

260
00:11:50,760 --> 00:11:52,280
Speaker 2: so it's up there like in what used to be

261
00:11:52,320 --> 00:11:54,520
Speaker 2: tobacco country, like way back in the day. But by

262
00:11:54,600 --> 00:11:55,800
Speaker 2: nineteen nine.

263
00:11:56,200 --> 00:11:57,920
Speaker 3: It's just the top exactly. Okay.

264
00:11:58,320 --> 00:12:02,720
Speaker 2: It's the life that was making that area like profitable

265
00:12:02,840 --> 00:12:05,000
Speaker 2: was mostly gone. So the county at this point wasn't

266
00:12:05,040 --> 00:12:08,720
Speaker 2: exactly an economic powerhouse, but people got by right now.

267
00:12:08,720 --> 00:12:11,200
Speaker 2: When Mark got out after his first stretch inside, he

268
00:12:11,240 --> 00:12:13,400
Speaker 2: came home to be near his dad. But sadly, his

269
00:12:13,400 --> 00:12:16,200
Speaker 2: father passed away. This is nineteen seventy nine, and this

270
00:12:16,280 --> 00:12:18,840
Speaker 2: is the start of his life's troubles because you see,

271
00:12:18,880 --> 00:12:22,199
Speaker 2: when his dad passed away, he was left his toolkit,

272
00:12:22,280 --> 00:12:24,040
Speaker 2: like he left all his tools to his son, and

273
00:12:24,040 --> 00:12:27,200
Speaker 2: apparently he had an amazing tool collection and he was

274
00:12:27,240 --> 00:12:31,040
Speaker 2: like incredible. So Mark he knew it had been willed

275
00:12:31,040 --> 00:12:32,880
Speaker 2: to him. Everybody knew it, but he didn't want to

276
00:12:32,920 --> 00:12:36,120
Speaker 2: wait for the lawyers to process probate, so instead he

277
00:12:36,240 --> 00:12:37,760
Speaker 2: just went to his dad's place and he tried to

278
00:12:37,760 --> 00:12:40,000
Speaker 2: collect his dad's collection of tools. He had a key

279
00:12:40,040 --> 00:12:42,040
Speaker 2: to look the toolshad or the garage or what have you,

280
00:12:42,480 --> 00:12:44,160
Speaker 2: and all the tools had been left for him. As

281
00:12:44,200 --> 00:12:46,640
Speaker 2: I said, So his stepmother knew this, but when she

282
00:12:46,760 --> 00:12:49,640
Speaker 2: saw him, like as she could later claim, breaking in,

283
00:12:49,920 --> 00:12:52,560
Speaker 2: she called the local sheriff. And so the sheriff came

284
00:12:52,559 --> 00:12:54,920
Speaker 2: out to see what was what and was not looking

285
00:12:54,960 --> 00:12:56,560
Speaker 2: to bus. Mark just wanted to talk to him. But

286
00:12:56,640 --> 00:12:59,600
Speaker 2: Mark sees the police pulling up and he'd already been inside,

287
00:12:59,640 --> 00:13:01,959
Speaker 2: so he's like, I'm not going back. He breaks out

288
00:13:01,960 --> 00:13:04,360
Speaker 2: of a window and runs for it. Like with the tools,

289
00:13:04,840 --> 00:13:07,560
Speaker 2: Mark made it all the way to Alabama, where he

290
00:13:07,679 --> 00:13:10,280
Speaker 2: was soon caught. He had a gun on him when

291
00:13:10,280 --> 00:13:13,560
Speaker 2: he was busted, so he was charged with theft, gun

292
00:13:13,600 --> 00:13:16,719
Speaker 2: possession and extradited back to Florida. Since he was now

293
00:13:16,760 --> 00:13:19,600
Speaker 2: an ex con, the gun was considered a violation of

294
00:13:19,640 --> 00:13:22,480
Speaker 2: his parole. Right now, the tools that had been left

295
00:13:22,480 --> 00:13:24,280
Speaker 2: to him by his father. You might expect it when

296
00:13:24,280 --> 00:13:27,400
Speaker 2: a judge hears this, they would be a bit lenient, Elizabeth,

297
00:13:27,400 --> 00:13:29,920
Speaker 2: That's not what happened. If you had to guess how

298
00:13:30,000 --> 00:13:32,040
Speaker 2: much time do you think he got inside for his

299
00:13:32,120 --> 00:13:33,680
Speaker 2: second stretch for a huge tool.

300
00:13:33,760 --> 00:13:35,880
Speaker 3: Well he didn't wake out with all the tools.

301
00:13:35,559 --> 00:13:39,079
Speaker 2: Right, but he has a gun. He's extradited from Alabama.

302
00:13:39,200 --> 00:13:40,720
Speaker 2: What do you think a judge sees this in nineteen

303
00:13:40,760 --> 00:13:41,920
Speaker 2: seventy nine, nineteen seven nine.

304
00:13:41,960 --> 00:13:45,439
Speaker 3: And you mentioned he's autistic, right, yeah, so he's probably

305
00:13:45,760 --> 00:13:51,400
Speaker 3: not going to convey himself like others do it. He

306
00:13:51,440 --> 00:13:54,280
Speaker 3: has different things he brings to the game completely, So

307
00:13:54,360 --> 00:13:56,880
Speaker 3: I'm going to think it's completely out of control. Yes,

308
00:13:57,040 --> 00:13:57,800
Speaker 3: like ten.

309
00:13:57,720 --> 00:13:59,920
Speaker 2: Years, not quite. He got four years in a floor

310
00:14:00,080 --> 00:14:01,280
Speaker 2: to state correctional.

311
00:14:00,880 --> 00:14:03,640
Speaker 3: Facility for stealing something that is his.

312
00:14:03,679 --> 00:14:04,920
Speaker 2: It would have been his if he just waited like

313
00:14:04,920 --> 00:14:08,040
Speaker 2: an extra week or something. So that's no fun. Right,

314
00:14:08,080 --> 00:14:10,800
Speaker 2: there's boom. Now Mark had already been locked up for years,

315
00:14:10,800 --> 00:14:12,480
Speaker 2: I said, so he knew what to expect him. He

316
00:14:12,520 --> 00:14:15,480
Speaker 2: was going back inside. So I guess he didn't dig

317
00:14:15,559 --> 00:14:19,360
Speaker 2: his prison social life that he had previously experienced, because

318
00:14:19,360 --> 00:14:21,800
Speaker 2: within a month of being locked up, he makes his

319
00:14:21,880 --> 00:14:25,920
Speaker 2: first escape attempt. Yeah, one month and by the way,

320
00:14:25,960 --> 00:14:29,880
Speaker 2: that was the first of many prison escape attempts. Now,

321
00:14:30,000 --> 00:14:32,080
Speaker 2: let's take a little break, and after these messages we

322
00:14:32,120 --> 00:14:36,080
Speaker 2: will get into the many, many prison escapes of Mark

323
00:14:36,160 --> 00:14:59,560
Speaker 2: de Friest. Yes, we're back to Elizabeth. You're ready to

324
00:14:59,600 --> 00:15:00,600
Speaker 2: bust out the joint.

325
00:15:00,680 --> 00:15:01,760
Speaker 3: I certainly am so.

326
00:15:01,880 --> 00:15:04,480
Speaker 2: At this point, it's nineteen eighty. Mark Defriest has just

327
00:15:04,520 --> 00:15:07,360
Speaker 2: been locked up at a facility called Bay County Prison

328
00:15:07,400 --> 00:15:09,720
Speaker 2: in Florida. And like I said, he doesn't take him

329
00:15:09,840 --> 00:15:12,080
Speaker 2: even a month before he decides I don't want to

330
00:15:12,080 --> 00:15:12,400
Speaker 2: be here.

331
00:15:12,600 --> 00:15:13,240
Speaker 3: It's not for him.

332
00:15:13,320 --> 00:15:15,960
Speaker 2: Now, thanks to the documentary The Mind of Mark Defriest,

333
00:15:16,120 --> 00:15:18,800
Speaker 2: we know exactly how his first month played out. And

334
00:15:18,840 --> 00:15:22,400
Speaker 2: so here's how Mark Defriest tells the story. And I quote,

335
00:15:22,880 --> 00:15:26,000
Speaker 2: it was Tuesday, I remember that Tuesday Bible study. You're

336
00:15:26,000 --> 00:15:28,320
Speaker 2: supposed to be escorted out of the compound at night.

337
00:15:28,840 --> 00:15:31,440
Speaker 2: Eight of us broke camp and hauled for the fence.

338
00:15:32,000 --> 00:15:35,920
Speaker 2: The plan was that simple, run eight of them, Yeah, exactly.

339
00:15:35,920 --> 00:15:37,200
Speaker 2: Can't catch all that?

340
00:15:37,240 --> 00:15:39,000
Speaker 3: Maybe you bring some slow vas exactly.

341
00:15:39,000 --> 00:15:40,520
Speaker 2: It's the whole thing about like if you're trying to

342
00:15:40,560 --> 00:15:42,120
Speaker 2: run from a bear, you just take time to put

343
00:15:42,160 --> 00:15:43,520
Speaker 2: on your shoes because you don't have to be faster

344
00:15:43,560 --> 00:15:44,720
Speaker 2: than the bear. It's got to be faster than the

345
00:15:44,760 --> 00:15:45,120
Speaker 2: other guy.

346
00:15:45,280 --> 00:15:45,560
Speaker 4: Right.

347
00:15:45,720 --> 00:15:48,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, So back to Mark quote, half of them got

348
00:15:48,840 --> 00:15:51,000
Speaker 2: hung up on the fence on that that razor wire

349
00:15:51,040 --> 00:15:53,960
Speaker 2: and he was scream at de freezed wait up for me,

350
00:15:54,040 --> 00:15:56,320
Speaker 2: And I was like, the f's wrong with you people?

351
00:15:56,400 --> 00:15:56,600
Speaker 3: Man?

352
00:15:57,240 --> 00:16:01,320
Speaker 2: So obviously, like I said a loaner, Yeah, Mark, he

353
00:16:01,360 --> 00:16:03,520
Speaker 2: gets over the fence and he doesn't look back. He

354
00:16:03,520 --> 00:16:06,480
Speaker 2: heads straight for the Florida swamps, which is not the

355
00:16:06,560 --> 00:16:09,320
Speaker 2: choice most folks would make. Sure, But you've ever seen

356
00:16:09,320 --> 00:16:11,760
Speaker 2: them Florida swamps? I mean that's for me. It's scarier

357
00:16:11,800 --> 00:16:13,080
Speaker 2: in jail.

358
00:16:13,000 --> 00:16:15,440
Speaker 3: Once and I saw some and it was pretty uh

359
00:16:15,480 --> 00:16:18,000
Speaker 3: And I don't even think I saw like the swamp swamp.

360
00:16:18,080 --> 00:16:19,320
Speaker 2: Yeah no, But I've also.

361
00:16:19,120 --> 00:16:20,600
Speaker 3: Seen other swamps throughout the South.

362
00:16:20,680 --> 00:16:21,520
Speaker 2: You know, it goes.

363
00:16:22,240 --> 00:16:24,480
Speaker 3: I always would see him. You see like the the

364
00:16:24,680 --> 00:16:27,040
Speaker 3: you know, cypress trees coming out of this stuff, and

365
00:16:27,080 --> 00:16:29,320
Speaker 3: you think, I bet you there are so many bodies

366
00:16:29,320 --> 00:16:30,560
Speaker 3: in there, oh one d percent.

367
00:16:30,680 --> 00:16:33,360
Speaker 2: Also easily it's like America's version of Australia. It's like

368
00:16:33,400 --> 00:16:35,160
Speaker 2: everything wants to eat and kill your.

369
00:16:35,080 --> 00:16:36,840
Speaker 3: And everything's outsized and yeah.

370
00:16:36,960 --> 00:16:40,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, So Mark, though he's not afraid of the swamps

371
00:16:40,160 --> 00:16:43,040
Speaker 2: right due to his paranoid papa's war training. He's like, oh,

372
00:16:43,080 --> 00:16:45,080
Speaker 2: I can handle this, Yeah totally. So he and another

373
00:16:45,120 --> 00:16:47,480
Speaker 2: inmate they make it to the swamps together. They get

374
00:16:47,560 --> 00:16:50,680
Speaker 2: chased by prison guards and like at some point apparently

375
00:16:50,680 --> 00:16:52,960
Speaker 2: they're like shooting rifles at them, trying to scare them

376
00:16:52,960 --> 00:16:54,840
Speaker 2: out of the woods and make as they're making their

377
00:16:54,840 --> 00:16:57,840
Speaker 2: way through the swamp. But once again, thanks to Daddy's training,

378
00:16:57,880 --> 00:17:00,120
Speaker 2: they evade the enemy and they make it through the

379
00:17:00,160 --> 00:17:00,840
Speaker 2: darkened woods.

380
00:17:00,920 --> 00:17:01,360
Speaker 3: Yeah.

381
00:17:01,440 --> 00:17:04,439
Speaker 2: Back to Mark's telling quote, we went to one of

382
00:17:04,480 --> 00:17:08,560
Speaker 2: my old friend's houses. They had an old Ford pickup truck. Elizabeth,

383
00:17:08,600 --> 00:17:11,560
Speaker 2: You'll never guess what they did next. You guess, steal

384
00:17:11,560 --> 00:17:15,679
Speaker 2: a car. You win. So Mark hot wired his friend's

385
00:17:15,720 --> 00:17:18,280
Speaker 2: old Ford truck and as he tells it, quote, all

386
00:17:18,320 --> 00:17:20,320
Speaker 2: you gotta do is raise the hood, put a positive

387
00:17:20,359 --> 00:17:22,920
Speaker 2: wire to the coil of the battery, hit the solenoid,

388
00:17:23,000 --> 00:17:25,640
Speaker 2: and haul it. You can do this in the dark,

389
00:17:25,720 --> 00:17:28,200
Speaker 2: eyes closed, You know what I'm saying. Well, he can, Mark,

390
00:17:28,240 --> 00:17:29,000
Speaker 2: not everyone knows.

391
00:17:28,880 --> 00:17:30,760
Speaker 3: What you're saying I can't.

392
00:17:30,800 --> 00:17:33,159
Speaker 2: But Mark, Yeah, eyes closed too, that's what I want to.

393
00:17:35,280 --> 00:17:36,200
Speaker 3: Bump down the room.

394
00:17:36,720 --> 00:17:39,840
Speaker 2: So this guy's I said, he's mechanically gifted. So now

395
00:17:39,960 --> 00:17:42,280
Speaker 2: thanks to his gifts, they have a hot truck. So

396
00:17:42,320 --> 00:17:45,199
Speaker 2: they hit the road and they make their escape to Tallahassee,

397
00:17:45,640 --> 00:17:48,080
Speaker 2: not spot I would go, but they picked Tallahassee. They oh,

398
00:17:48,119 --> 00:17:50,240
Speaker 2: the big city, will be able to hide and be anonymous.

399
00:17:50,320 --> 00:17:50,520
Speaker 3: Yeah.

400
00:17:50,640 --> 00:17:53,000
Speaker 2: They hole up in room two sixty eight at the

401
00:17:53,080 --> 00:17:56,119
Speaker 2: Driftwood Motel. Hey, that's also where the police and prison

402
00:17:56,160 --> 00:17:58,560
Speaker 2: officials finally caught up to them. The cops and the

403
00:17:58,560 --> 00:18:01,200
Speaker 2: prison officials were very much not cool with his first

404
00:18:01,320 --> 00:18:03,600
Speaker 2: escape attempt. They were not impressed. Yeah, but if you

405
00:18:03,640 --> 00:18:08,160
Speaker 2: ask Mark, he says, nobody has a sense of humor. Anyway, Mark,

406
00:18:08,160 --> 00:18:10,800
Speaker 2: he catches new charges for this prison escape attempt, and

407
00:18:10,840 --> 00:18:13,440
Speaker 2: not a few. I mean he caught six new charges

408
00:18:14,000 --> 00:18:16,080
Speaker 2: that added a lot more time to his sentence.

409
00:18:16,160 --> 00:18:16,400
Speaker 3: Sure.

410
00:18:16,520 --> 00:18:19,639
Speaker 2: Remember he's just twenty years old. He's got his entire.

411
00:18:19,480 --> 00:18:22,080
Speaker 3: Life and started a four year sentence exactly. So it's

412
00:18:22,119 --> 00:18:23,840
Speaker 3: not like, oh, it was just almost done, and now

413
00:18:23,840 --> 00:18:25,400
Speaker 3: he tack on a couple of years.

414
00:18:25,520 --> 00:18:29,119
Speaker 2: Yeah, Yeah, it's rough now, Based on his escaped attempt

415
00:18:29,200 --> 00:18:32,320
Speaker 2: and his odd behavior, the prison officials sent him to

416
00:18:32,359 --> 00:18:36,000
Speaker 2: the Florida State Hospital to test if Mark was competent

417
00:18:36,040 --> 00:18:38,919
Speaker 2: to stand trial for all these new charges. The Florida

418
00:18:39,000 --> 00:18:41,440
Speaker 2: State Hospital is basically like a facility like you would

419
00:18:41,440 --> 00:18:43,320
Speaker 2: see in One Flew Over the Cucko's Nest. It's a

420
00:18:43,359 --> 00:18:46,639
Speaker 2: mental health facility and like a state hospital. So the

421
00:18:46,720 --> 00:18:49,160
Speaker 2: year is now at this point, nineteen eighty one, and

422
00:18:49,240 --> 00:18:51,640
Speaker 2: here comes a new wrinkle in the story because at

423
00:18:51,640 --> 00:18:55,040
Speaker 2: the Florida State Hospital he reconnected with his wife because

424
00:18:55,080 --> 00:18:56,400
Speaker 2: that's where she worked.

425
00:18:56,640 --> 00:18:58,000
Speaker 3: So he got married at some point.

426
00:18:58,080 --> 00:19:00,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, he was married when he was I should mentioned

427
00:19:00,400 --> 00:19:02,720
Speaker 2: that his first wife. He was married very young, and

428
00:19:03,119 --> 00:19:05,439
Speaker 2: she liked him. He was this handsome blonde guy. She's like,

429
00:19:05,480 --> 00:19:08,159
Speaker 2: oh my god, he's so free, he's so confident. He

430
00:19:08,240 --> 00:19:10,200
Speaker 2: just went to jail and now he's in jail, right,

431
00:19:10,240 --> 00:19:12,000
Speaker 2: and so can you imagine that, Like how rough it

432
00:19:12,080 --> 00:19:13,760
Speaker 2: must have been for her when her husband was booked

433
00:19:13,760 --> 00:19:17,080
Speaker 2: at her place of work. Yeah right, like that's no fun, right,

434
00:19:17,200 --> 00:19:20,399
Speaker 2: or she put it that sucked, Yeah, that's sure. And

435
00:19:20,440 --> 00:19:22,840
Speaker 2: she was a social worker there, so she's taking care

436
00:19:22,880 --> 00:19:26,080
Speaker 2: of inmate patience. And meanwhile, she put it, quote, I

437
00:19:26,080 --> 00:19:27,880
Speaker 2: had patients that were looking up to me as their

438
00:19:27,880 --> 00:19:29,679
Speaker 2: social worker, and then I was trying to help and

439
00:19:29,680 --> 00:19:32,119
Speaker 2: give them advice. And I've got this husband over there

440
00:19:32,119 --> 00:19:35,920
Speaker 2: at forensic services. Oh no, right, yeah, it's rough. H Meanwhile,

441
00:19:35,960 --> 00:19:38,520
Speaker 2: Mark takes one look at this place's security and he's like,

442
00:19:38,760 --> 00:19:42,040
Speaker 2: I can bust out of here, Elizabeth. This brings us

443
00:19:42,040 --> 00:19:44,960
Speaker 2: to his second prison escape attempt. We'll call it the

444
00:19:45,440 --> 00:19:50,120
Speaker 2: great lsdkper Oh no, yes, back to Mark's telling, no, quote,

445
00:19:50,280 --> 00:19:52,639
Speaker 2: I figured that I get everybody stoned. I got my

446
00:19:52,680 --> 00:19:54,840
Speaker 2: hands on Do you know what blotter as it is? Right,

447
00:19:54,920 --> 00:19:56,440
Speaker 2: it's LSD twenty five.

448
00:19:57,119 --> 00:20:01,120
Speaker 3: Yes, he gets acid in yes, mental They.

449
00:20:01,000 --> 00:20:03,600
Speaker 2: Were using it for like therapeutics, right, trying to like

450
00:20:03,640 --> 00:20:07,960
Speaker 2: help people have like constructors. There was a lot of

451
00:20:07,960 --> 00:20:10,280
Speaker 2: that stuff coming out of like, yeah, the sixty seventies

452
00:20:10,280 --> 00:20:12,240
Speaker 2: and eighties, I mean even before that. That was the

453
00:20:12,320 --> 00:20:15,720
Speaker 2: part of the original intention was like this could be

454
00:20:15,800 --> 00:20:17,480
Speaker 2: and it's same with MDMA.

455
00:20:17,640 --> 00:20:19,000
Speaker 3: They locked the cabinet.

456
00:20:19,359 --> 00:20:22,200
Speaker 2: No, his plan was simple, straightforward. You give the prison

457
00:20:22,200 --> 00:20:24,800
Speaker 2: guards and the officials their acid, and in the chaos

458
00:20:24,800 --> 00:20:26,080
Speaker 2: he just slip away.

459
00:20:26,240 --> 00:20:27,720
Speaker 3: Nice so to enact his plan.

460
00:20:27,800 --> 00:20:29,800
Speaker 2: He hid in a closet by the nurses station, and

461
00:20:29,840 --> 00:20:32,800
Speaker 2: there he waited for a shift change. Half an hour before,

462
00:20:32,920 --> 00:20:35,359
Speaker 2: like four in the afternoon, just before the new shift

463
00:20:35,359 --> 00:20:37,359
Speaker 2: came on, he snuck out of the broom closet and

464
00:20:37,400 --> 00:20:40,679
Speaker 2: as Mark tells it, quote, they got this coffee pot machine,

465
00:20:40,720 --> 00:20:42,760
Speaker 2: and I took the whole bottle of blotter acid. It

466
00:20:42,800 --> 00:20:45,480
Speaker 2: was like maybe seventy five to one hundred tabs worth,

467
00:20:45,720 --> 00:20:47,760
Speaker 2: So I dumped the whole thing in this fresh pot

468
00:20:47,800 --> 00:20:51,200
Speaker 2: of coffee. That's what I did in that's a lot

469
00:20:51,200 --> 00:20:52,160
Speaker 2: of acid, A lot.

470
00:20:52,480 --> 00:20:54,800
Speaker 3: I used to have these like fantasies when I was

471
00:20:54,840 --> 00:20:57,879
Speaker 3: sitting in faculty meetings in the college and everyone was

472
00:20:57,920 --> 00:21:00,680
Speaker 3: just really pushing my buttons and they all love sweet tea.

473
00:21:00,800 --> 00:21:04,200
Speaker 3: Maybe out there like this huge like you know, caraffe

474
00:21:04,320 --> 00:21:05,720
Speaker 3: of sweet tea hitting the thing, you know.

475
00:21:05,800 --> 00:21:06,000
Speaker 2: Yeah.

476
00:21:06,760 --> 00:21:08,280
Speaker 3: And I used to think, like what if I put

477
00:21:08,320 --> 00:21:11,840
Speaker 3: like half a drop of LSD in this giant like

478
00:21:12,160 --> 00:21:14,919
Speaker 3: you know container, Yeah, like what would happen? Or if

479
00:21:14,960 --> 00:21:17,200
Speaker 3: I put a whole you know, like what would happen?

480
00:21:17,520 --> 00:21:21,439
Speaker 3: And this guy is taking like a quarter of the

481
00:21:21,480 --> 00:21:25,800
Speaker 3: amount of liquid and like a hundred times oh, my god,

482
00:21:26,400 --> 00:21:27,720
Speaker 3: he's gonna break brains.

483
00:21:27,800 --> 00:21:29,320
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, it'll certainly do the trick.

484
00:21:29,560 --> 00:21:30,200
Speaker 4: Yeah.

485
00:21:30,359 --> 00:21:32,679
Speaker 2: Meanwhile, Mark is rare and to go. He's just like

486
00:21:32,840 --> 00:21:35,080
Speaker 2: sitting there geeking out in the closet waiting for things

487
00:21:35,160 --> 00:21:37,800
Speaker 2: to happen. And also I should say he's got clothes

488
00:21:37,840 --> 00:21:40,199
Speaker 2: to change into once he gets outside, so he's like

489
00:21:40,280 --> 00:21:41,040
Speaker 2: prepared for this.

490
00:21:41,240 --> 00:21:41,520
Speaker 3: Yeah.

491
00:21:41,560 --> 00:21:43,600
Speaker 2: And also he's worked out like which locks he'll need

492
00:21:43,600 --> 00:21:45,840
Speaker 2: to pick to make his escape, so he's got his

493
00:21:45,840 --> 00:21:48,760
Speaker 2: whole path planned. Is like he's got his like after

494
00:21:49,000 --> 00:21:51,639
Speaker 2: care planned, Like I'm gonna put on this outfit and

495
00:21:51,680 --> 00:21:54,159
Speaker 2: I'm gonna go get a cad like a diddy bag.

496
00:21:54,000 --> 00:21:56,640
Speaker 3: To like make sure that he's all set exactly.

497
00:21:56,800 --> 00:21:58,879
Speaker 2: So he just needs to wait for the LSD to

498
00:21:58,960 --> 00:22:02,040
Speaker 2: kick in, which it does around four to twenty pm.

499
00:22:02,440 --> 00:22:05,199
Speaker 2: Not to it's just coincidental. So the prison staff they

500
00:22:05,200 --> 00:22:08,320
Speaker 2: start to feel the strange disorienting effects of the acid,

501
00:22:08,720 --> 00:22:11,119
Speaker 2: and starts out with this one prison aide who's working

502
00:22:11,119 --> 00:22:13,840
Speaker 2: in the laundry room. As Mark tells it, quote, you

503
00:22:13,880 --> 00:22:16,000
Speaker 2: know how the clothes and the dryer go around and

504
00:22:16,080 --> 00:22:19,040
Speaker 2: around and around. Well he got really freaked out about that,

505
00:22:19,359 --> 00:22:22,480
Speaker 2: and he attacked the dryer. He beat the out of

506
00:22:22,480 --> 00:22:25,280
Speaker 2: that dryer. He ripped the door off, he started kicking

507
00:22:25,320 --> 00:22:28,359
Speaker 2: it and screaming. So, oh yeah, there's other ones, like

508
00:22:28,400 --> 00:22:31,280
Speaker 2: there's a psychiatrist, this redheaded woman psychiatrist. She's walking down

509
00:22:31,320 --> 00:22:33,720
Speaker 2: the center aisles like saying all kinds of nonsense and

510
00:22:33,760 --> 00:22:36,480
Speaker 2: like gripping out her body and stuff. Like everybody's freaking out.

511
00:22:36,640 --> 00:22:37,880
Speaker 3: Is my night mare?

512
00:22:38,000 --> 00:22:40,240
Speaker 2: Oh yeah? And then you're in a prison because I'm.

513
00:22:40,080 --> 00:22:42,760
Speaker 3: Like, oh, don't talk to me until I've had my coffee.

514
00:22:43,640 --> 00:22:45,399
Speaker 3: I'm just gonna have a little pick me up. And

515
00:22:45,400 --> 00:22:48,240
Speaker 3: then all of a sudden, I'm just say my mind.

516
00:22:48,280 --> 00:22:51,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, faces are melting off of heads. Soon there were

517
00:22:51,040 --> 00:22:53,600
Speaker 2: other freakouts like happening all over the prison, and as

518
00:22:53,640 --> 00:22:56,600
Speaker 2: Mark tells it, quote well, somebody got wise and called

519
00:22:56,640 --> 00:22:59,480
Speaker 2: security right before I could make my move. They surrounded

520
00:22:59,520 --> 00:23:03,440
Speaker 2: the whole goddamn warden locked it all down, right, They

521
00:23:03,480 --> 00:23:06,720
Speaker 2: finally figured out the coffee had been poisoned. So much

522
00:23:06,760 --> 00:23:09,280
Speaker 2: for the Great lsd kper HeiG fizzled before he could

523
00:23:09,280 --> 00:23:12,440
Speaker 2: even get out of the facility. But don't lose hope, Elizabeth,

524
00:23:12,520 --> 00:23:16,680
Speaker 2: because next came his third prison escape attempt. The third

525
00:23:16,720 --> 00:23:18,960
Speaker 2: prison escape attempt was motivated by what he saw in

526
00:23:19,000 --> 00:23:22,920
Speaker 2: the prison wood shop. As you know, a wood shop

527
00:23:23,040 --> 00:23:26,720
Speaker 2: means tools, sure, and Marcus clearly good at using tools,

528
00:23:27,359 --> 00:23:28,160
Speaker 2: so yeah, but.

529
00:23:28,119 --> 00:23:33,679
Speaker 3: They're also like like pruce madeleine where it's like memories.

530
00:23:33,760 --> 00:23:37,240
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, he's having flashbacks. So back to Mark's retelling

531
00:23:37,280 --> 00:23:40,119
Speaker 2: of events quote, they sent me to arts and craft

532
00:23:40,119 --> 00:23:42,480
Speaker 2: school and they had these rolled up copper sheets. I'm

533
00:23:42,520 --> 00:23:44,760
Speaker 2: just looking at it and looking at them, thinking, they

534
00:23:44,800 --> 00:23:47,840
Speaker 2: really don't want me to stay here. So what does

535
00:23:47,840 --> 00:23:49,720
Speaker 2: he do, Elizabeth? Does he make a key? Does he

536
00:23:49,800 --> 00:23:51,800
Speaker 2: swipe a saw blade to cut the bars in his

537
00:23:51,840 --> 00:23:55,240
Speaker 2: cell window and then shimmy out to freedom? Instead he

538
00:23:55,240 --> 00:23:56,920
Speaker 2: makes himself a prison zip gun?

539
00:23:57,560 --> 00:23:58,320
Speaker 3: A zip gun?

540
00:23:58,359 --> 00:24:00,000
Speaker 2: What is a zip gun? I glad you out.

541
00:24:00,160 --> 00:24:03,840
Speaker 3: Great asking, and me for asking, and everyone for asking.

542
00:24:04,160 --> 00:24:06,040
Speaker 2: So we'll have Mark tell you what a prison zip

543
00:24:06,040 --> 00:24:09,320
Speaker 2: gun is because it's better than my explanation. Quote. You

544
00:24:09,440 --> 00:24:11,480
Speaker 2: cut a twelve inch piece of it and roll it

545
00:24:11,560 --> 00:24:13,600
Speaker 2: up around a pencil, and you got a beautiful gun

546
00:24:13,600 --> 00:24:17,880
Speaker 2: barrel that's of the copper sheets. Right, And then back

547
00:24:17,920 --> 00:24:20,119
Speaker 2: to Mark, So I put two on a piece of

548
00:24:20,160 --> 00:24:22,359
Speaker 2: wood cut out like a pistol grip so I built

549
00:24:22,400 --> 00:24:25,040
Speaker 2: these two double barreled zip guns. So I took one

550
00:24:25,080 --> 00:24:26,679
Speaker 2: of the guns and taped it right in front of

551
00:24:26,720 --> 00:24:28,399
Speaker 2: my nuts, and I had the other gun in the

552
00:24:28,440 --> 00:24:31,720
Speaker 2: crack of my right. So now he's got a zip gun,

553
00:24:31,800 --> 00:24:33,760
Speaker 2: but he needs to find the perfect time in place

554
00:24:33,760 --> 00:24:34,159
Speaker 2: to use it.

555
00:24:34,280 --> 00:24:36,000
Speaker 3: What's the ammunition in the zip gun?

556
00:24:36,160 --> 00:24:38,280
Speaker 2: A bullet? He's got bullets in there, and there's like

557
00:24:38,320 --> 00:24:40,280
Speaker 2: a little cap that'll make it go.

558
00:24:40,359 --> 00:24:40,880
Speaker 3: It's a gun.

559
00:24:41,000 --> 00:24:42,639
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's just a thing. It's like a single shot,

560
00:24:42,720 --> 00:24:45,560
Speaker 2: like a like a derringer, like a one hitter. Yeah exactly,

561
00:24:45,880 --> 00:24:47,959
Speaker 2: my goodness. So he decides the perfect place to use

562
00:24:48,000 --> 00:24:50,480
Speaker 2: this would be the dentist office. Right it's closing after

563
00:24:50,520 --> 00:24:52,080
Speaker 2: the front gate, that he can pull out his gun

564
00:24:52,080 --> 00:24:54,040
Speaker 2: and sort of just walk out the front door, just

565
00:24:54,080 --> 00:24:57,240
Speaker 2: like he's the reincarnated John Dillinger. Yeah, now to get

566
00:24:57,240 --> 00:24:58,840
Speaker 2: a ticket to the dentist's.

567
00:24:58,400 --> 00:24:59,959
Speaker 3: Office full of like butt sweat.

568
00:25:00,160 --> 00:25:02,199
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah, he's good, but it's copper. It's like, oh,

569
00:25:02,200 --> 00:25:06,240
Speaker 2: it's just gonna turn it nervous. Yeah, exactly, you are.

570
00:25:07,119 --> 00:25:09,239
Speaker 2: So he gives his ticket to the dentist office by

571
00:25:09,280 --> 00:25:11,200
Speaker 2: using an ice pick and digging out a tooth from

572
00:25:11,200 --> 00:25:13,760
Speaker 2: his own mouth. Oh son, Yeah. Then he goes to

573
00:25:13,840 --> 00:25:15,879
Speaker 2: the nurses station where like, and the nurse takes one

574
00:25:15,920 --> 00:25:17,359
Speaker 2: look at all the blood in his mouth, and you

575
00:25:17,400 --> 00:25:20,639
Speaker 2: go rushing him to the dentist office pretty much. And

576
00:25:20,680 --> 00:25:24,080
Speaker 2: then he goes with his two homemade guns secreted on

577
00:25:24,119 --> 00:25:27,200
Speaker 2: his person. So, as Mark recalls, here's what went down

578
00:25:27,240 --> 00:25:29,760
Speaker 2: once he got there. Quote, you got two aids with

579
00:25:29,800 --> 00:25:32,199
Speaker 2: you and an armed guard. If you're a forensic patient.

580
00:25:32,359 --> 00:25:34,359
Speaker 2: The arm guard's got a little thirty eight. So I

581
00:25:34,400 --> 00:25:35,959
Speaker 2: go to the dentist and he takes one look at

582
00:25:35,960 --> 00:25:38,600
Speaker 2: my mouth and says it's self mutilation. So he patches

583
00:25:38,600 --> 00:25:40,600
Speaker 2: me up as best he can. And in the lobby

584
00:25:40,680 --> 00:25:42,640
Speaker 2: they got a bathroom. I said, I got a piss,

585
00:25:42,720 --> 00:25:44,960
Speaker 2: real bad man. So they let me go in there

586
00:25:45,040 --> 00:25:49,240
Speaker 2: by myself. Wrong move, super wrong move. So in the bathroom,

587
00:25:49,280 --> 00:25:51,479
Speaker 2: of course, he pulls out his two zip guns. Then

588
00:25:51,520 --> 00:25:55,400
Speaker 2: he comes back out all John Dillinger style. As Mark says, quote,

589
00:25:55,720 --> 00:25:57,480
Speaker 2: come out of the bathroom, and I threw down on

590
00:25:57,520 --> 00:25:59,360
Speaker 2: the arm guard. I pointed it right at his face,

591
00:25:59,400 --> 00:26:02,000
Speaker 2: and I said, if you move, I'll blow your brains out.

592
00:26:02,400 --> 00:26:04,160
Speaker 2: I got a pretty good psycho act when I want

593
00:26:04,160 --> 00:26:08,280
Speaker 2: to write, I want to But when the prison staff

594
00:26:08,320 --> 00:26:10,600
Speaker 2: and his fellow inmates were there waiting for their turn

595
00:26:10,640 --> 00:26:12,919
Speaker 2: in the dentist chair, they all catch sight of this

596
00:26:13,000 --> 00:26:16,080
Speaker 2: pretty good psycho act going down. They don't see John Dillinger.

597
00:26:16,119 --> 00:26:17,879
Speaker 2: They think it's all just a dumb joke, so they

598
00:26:17,960 --> 00:26:20,240
Speaker 2: all bust out laughing. So there he is holding us

599
00:26:20,240 --> 00:26:22,679
Speaker 2: two homemade guns and everybody's laughing like it's an all

600
00:26:22,800 --> 00:26:26,119
Speaker 2: big joke, Elizabeth, he was not joking. To get them

601
00:26:26,160 --> 00:26:28,440
Speaker 2: to understand that he was not joking, Mark says, quote,

602
00:26:28,480 --> 00:26:30,439
Speaker 2: I fired the zip gun, yeah, but not in a

603
00:26:30,440 --> 00:26:32,760
Speaker 2: person though. He was like safe. You know, Mark shoots

604
00:26:32,800 --> 00:26:35,240
Speaker 2: the phone off the desk, right, he goes.

605
00:26:35,080 --> 00:26:37,639
Speaker 3: Off Western right exactly.

606
00:26:37,880 --> 00:26:41,440
Speaker 2: So now everyone stops laughing, the piano player stops flying,

607
00:26:42,080 --> 00:26:44,240
Speaker 2: and it's time for Mark to get free. So back

608
00:26:44,240 --> 00:26:46,440
Speaker 2: to Mark's description, So I ran out of the dentist's

609
00:26:46,480 --> 00:26:49,360
Speaker 2: office and see there's a lot of traffic during the day,

610
00:26:49,440 --> 00:26:52,200
Speaker 2: and and just my luck, I'm looking for somebody driving

611
00:26:52,240 --> 00:26:54,520
Speaker 2: by who would be happy enough to donate their car

612
00:26:54,600 --> 00:26:57,920
Speaker 2: to a worthy cause, and there was nobody convenient. There

613
00:26:58,000 --> 00:27:01,680
Speaker 2: was no traffic. So with no cars for his what's

614
00:27:01,680 --> 00:27:05,280
Speaker 2: he supposed to do now, question Elizabeth. No, that's like

615
00:27:05,320 --> 00:27:09,840
Speaker 2: you you'd think, right. Well, as Mark puts it, I said, oh, well,

616
00:27:10,280 --> 00:27:12,440
Speaker 2: back up plan too. So I head for the.

617
00:27:12,400 --> 00:27:15,400
Speaker 3: Swamp with a mouthful of blood.

618
00:27:15,680 --> 00:27:20,360
Speaker 2: By the way, wound. And Mark says it because I'd

619
00:27:20,359 --> 00:27:22,280
Speaker 2: already been there, I know that. So I run off

620
00:27:22,320 --> 00:27:24,399
Speaker 2: in the woods, right, and you can you can forget

621
00:27:24,480 --> 00:27:30,119
Speaker 2: catching me in a situation like that. Because all of

622
00:27:30,119 --> 00:27:32,880
Speaker 2: his dad's oss training, being a soldier behind enemy lines,

623
00:27:32,920 --> 00:27:35,720
Speaker 2: he knows he's got what he needs to survive. He does,

624
00:27:35,760 --> 00:27:38,320
Speaker 2: he puts it to work, and since he's armed and dangerous,

625
00:27:38,359 --> 00:27:40,960
Speaker 2: the prison guards they released the bloodhounds to catch a

626
00:27:40,960 --> 00:27:43,760
Speaker 2: whiff of his trail. The dogs and the guards, they

627
00:27:43,800 --> 00:27:46,440
Speaker 2: aren't able to catch him. He totally avoids the dogs.

628
00:27:46,520 --> 00:27:48,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, he just swallowed all the blood in his mouth.

629
00:27:48,720 --> 00:27:50,720
Speaker 2: Apparently, you would think that these dogs will be able to.

630
00:27:50,720 --> 00:27:55,359
Speaker 3: Catch that's in the name, yes, right, blood exactly. And

631
00:27:55,400 --> 00:27:58,440
Speaker 3: this man is bleeding from the face and from the.

632
00:27:58,400 --> 00:28:00,760
Speaker 2: Mouth, and he's running so dribbling blood.

633
00:28:00,800 --> 00:28:02,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, you'd think that, like you know, in those cases,

634
00:28:02,600 --> 00:28:04,639
Speaker 3: you'd be like spitting out the salim and the blood.

635
00:28:04,680 --> 00:28:07,280
Speaker 3: But he's swallowing it. And that's his new fuel.

636
00:28:07,400 --> 00:28:09,560
Speaker 2: Apparently he makes it to the water, he swamps and

637
00:28:09,600 --> 00:28:10,160
Speaker 2: gets away.

638
00:28:10,600 --> 00:28:11,080
Speaker 3: He marked that.

639
00:28:11,680 --> 00:28:13,679
Speaker 2: What does he do next? He heads home, and he

640
00:28:13,760 --> 00:28:15,760
Speaker 2: makes it all the way back to his place that

641
00:28:15,840 --> 00:28:18,399
Speaker 2: this will not exactly his home, but like his neighborhood.

642
00:28:18,480 --> 00:28:19,959
Speaker 2: So he goes to this place that he'd worked as

643
00:28:19,960 --> 00:28:22,879
Speaker 2: a as a teenager. It's an old metal salvage yard

644
00:28:22,880 --> 00:28:23,800
Speaker 2: in like North Florida.

645
00:28:23,960 --> 00:28:24,280
Speaker 3: Yeah.

646
00:28:24,280 --> 00:28:26,200
Speaker 2: So there he grabs some tools and he breaks to

647
00:28:26,520 --> 00:28:29,240
Speaker 2: maybe three different bolt cutters, trying to get the handcuffs

648
00:28:29,280 --> 00:28:31,639
Speaker 2: off and to cut off the leg irons because remember

649
00:28:31,680 --> 00:28:35,000
Speaker 2: also he's running away in handcuffs and leg irons.

650
00:28:35,080 --> 00:28:35,680
Speaker 3: Oh my god.

651
00:28:35,880 --> 00:28:38,520
Speaker 2: Once he's fully free, where do you think he goes next?

652
00:28:38,960 --> 00:28:39,600
Speaker 3: Disney World?

653
00:28:39,680 --> 00:28:42,360
Speaker 2: Good guest. No, he heads to the trailer of his

654
00:28:42,560 --> 00:28:44,000
Speaker 2: estranged versus wife Brenda.

655
00:28:44,360 --> 00:28:45,239
Speaker 3: Oh that's gonna make her.

656
00:28:45,480 --> 00:28:46,880
Speaker 2: That must have been really fun for her.

657
00:28:46,960 --> 00:28:50,480
Speaker 3: Right, Wait a second, Brenda's not the one who works

658
00:28:50,480 --> 00:28:50,880
Speaker 3: at the house.

659
00:28:51,000 --> 00:28:53,240
Speaker 2: That's the one. Yes, Oh it is, yeah, same one.

660
00:28:53,400 --> 00:28:55,800
Speaker 3: First wife. Well how young was he? Okay, so I'm

661
00:28:55,800 --> 00:28:56,160
Speaker 3: getting it.

662
00:28:56,240 --> 00:28:58,479
Speaker 2: Yes, his first wife Brenda the one, so he knows

663
00:28:58,600 --> 00:28:59,840
Speaker 2: that she knows he's escaped.

664
00:29:00,120 --> 00:29:01,240
Speaker 3: Yeah, she's home from work.

665
00:29:02,400 --> 00:29:04,440
Speaker 2: So the trouble is now she wants nothing to do

666
00:29:04,560 --> 00:29:07,600
Speaker 2: with her now outlaw husband, and so he broke out

667
00:29:07,600 --> 00:29:09,240
Speaker 2: of the place where she works, which is why in

668
00:29:09,280 --> 00:29:12,200
Speaker 2: the documentary she says he broke my heart. I mean,

669
00:29:12,240 --> 00:29:14,160
Speaker 2: like she really did care for him, but she just

670
00:29:14,160 --> 00:29:16,080
Speaker 2: cannot put up with this because mostly he just keeps

671
00:29:16,120 --> 00:29:19,080
Speaker 2: busting out, embarrassing her, and he just refuses to go

672
00:29:19,080 --> 00:29:21,840
Speaker 2: along with law in society. There's just no future there.

673
00:29:21,840 --> 00:29:24,160
Speaker 2: And also he keeps adding more years to his sentence.

674
00:29:24,720 --> 00:29:27,320
Speaker 2: So she tells him, you need to go. Yeah, now, Mark,

675
00:29:27,400 --> 00:29:30,520
Speaker 2: he needs a new plan, so else I would imagine.

676
00:29:30,120 --> 00:29:31,720
Speaker 3: That the people at work would be like, we should

677
00:29:31,760 --> 00:29:32,840
Speaker 3: probably check Brenda's house.

678
00:29:32,880 --> 00:29:36,440
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, exactly. She knows that the thirty seconds behind him. Yeah,

679
00:29:36,760 --> 00:29:39,000
Speaker 2: so Mark, now he needs a getaway car and he

680
00:29:39,040 --> 00:29:41,040
Speaker 2: doesn't want to take Brenda's, so he leaves and he's

681
00:29:41,040 --> 00:29:44,040
Speaker 2: steal some other car. As Mark tells it, I got

682
00:29:44,360 --> 00:29:46,560
Speaker 2: jammed up and caught by the police. He doesn't make

683
00:29:46,600 --> 00:29:49,040
Speaker 2: it very far. Oh no, Mark wasn't on the loose

684
00:29:49,080 --> 00:29:51,200
Speaker 2: long before he's recaptured and he sent right back to

685
00:29:51,240 --> 00:29:54,920
Speaker 2: his previous spot at Bay County Prison, where he catches

686
00:29:54,960 --> 00:29:58,880
Speaker 2: some more charges since he stole a car at one point. Right,

687
00:29:59,080 --> 00:30:00,560
Speaker 2: So when he shows up at his old prison, the

688
00:30:00,560 --> 00:30:03,480
Speaker 2: correctional officers are none too pleased to see him back.

689
00:30:03,560 --> 00:30:06,440
Speaker 2: He's like their own cool hand Luke. Right, he's not

690
00:30:06,520 --> 00:30:08,880
Speaker 2: a movie cool. So he's put in a straight jacket

691
00:30:08,880 --> 00:30:11,600
Speaker 2: and he gets tossed in solitary confinements. But he's still

692
00:30:11,640 --> 00:30:13,640
Speaker 2: got that wild side, right. So next they throw him

693
00:30:13,680 --> 00:30:17,480
Speaker 2: into an escape proof cell. Spoiler alert, Elizabeth, it.

694
00:30:17,520 --> 00:30:21,480
Speaker 3: Was not escapade anytime they say it's escape proof. It

695
00:30:21,560 --> 00:30:23,440
Speaker 3: can't sink, it can't crash.

696
00:30:24,080 --> 00:30:26,800
Speaker 2: It's crashing. Its sinking, and he's getting away this. Yeah, So,

697
00:30:27,000 --> 00:30:29,160
Speaker 2: as Mark tells it, they threw me in another cell.

698
00:30:29,200 --> 00:30:31,360
Speaker 2: But I smashed the light out and got into the wall.

699
00:30:31,560 --> 00:30:33,520
Speaker 2: You can actually climb into a pipe galley and get

700
00:30:33,560 --> 00:30:36,480
Speaker 2: all kinds of metals. I got this big long crowbars

701
00:30:36,520 --> 00:30:38,840
Speaker 2: and so I just bam. I rolled the door down

702
00:30:38,920 --> 00:30:40,120
Speaker 2: like a can of sardines.

703
00:30:40,280 --> 00:30:43,800
Speaker 3: Well, so it's not even that he went and got supplies.

704
00:30:43,880 --> 00:30:45,400
Speaker 2: He reaches into the wall.

705
00:30:45,800 --> 00:30:47,520
Speaker 3: Escape We'll just go get supplies.

706
00:30:47,680 --> 00:30:49,520
Speaker 2: Now. This is about the point when Mark earned his

707
00:30:49,600 --> 00:30:51,000
Speaker 2: nickname the Houdini of Florida.

708
00:30:51,040 --> 00:30:51,719
Speaker 3: I give it to him.

709
00:30:51,800 --> 00:30:54,360
Speaker 2: Y're also the prison Houdini. There's two different ones both.

710
00:30:54,440 --> 00:30:55,280
Speaker 3: I think he's earned them.

711
00:30:55,440 --> 00:30:57,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think so too. Nineteen eighty one is the

712
00:30:57,920 --> 00:30:59,800
Speaker 2: year at this point, and the Florida prison system is

713
00:31:00,280 --> 00:31:02,520
Speaker 2: a doctor to find the determined if Mark Defriest is

714
00:31:02,560 --> 00:31:05,680
Speaker 2: mentally competent to stand trial for his now many new

715
00:31:05,760 --> 00:31:09,520
Speaker 2: additional charges. That doctor was named doctor Robert Berland, and

716
00:31:09,560 --> 00:31:12,120
Speaker 2: he worked as the director of the forensic ward at

717
00:31:12,520 --> 00:31:15,160
Speaker 2: the Florida State Hospital. So he knows Mark, and he

718
00:31:15,200 --> 00:31:18,000
Speaker 2: also knows Mark's now ex wife, Brenda. Plus he'd already

719
00:31:18,000 --> 00:31:20,160
Speaker 2: been made to look foolish when Mark pulled his LSD

720
00:31:20,280 --> 00:31:23,200
Speaker 2: stunt at the psych ward. His psych ward, so one

721
00:31:23,240 --> 00:31:26,520
Speaker 2: might say this doc holds a grudge against Mark. Surprise, surprise,

722
00:31:26,600 --> 00:31:30,480
Speaker 2: doctor Berlin deems Mark mentally competent to stand trial. Man

723
00:31:30,720 --> 00:31:33,120
Speaker 2: I should point out that there were other psychiatrists called

724
00:31:33,120 --> 00:31:35,880
Speaker 2: in to evaluate Mark. Four out of five of the

725
00:31:35,920 --> 00:31:39,120
Speaker 2: court appointed psychiatrists determined Mark is mentally ill and he

726
00:31:39,200 --> 00:31:43,080
Speaker 2: is incompetent to stand trial. But that fifth doctor, doctor Berlin,

727
00:31:43,200 --> 00:31:45,360
Speaker 2: the one with the grudge against Mark. He's who the

728
00:31:45,440 --> 00:31:47,800
Speaker 2: judge listened to. And he says he believes Mark is

729
00:31:47,840 --> 00:31:51,400
Speaker 2: faking it all major. No, it's like that old advertisement

730
00:31:51,440 --> 00:31:59,240
Speaker 2: four five dentists recommend try it's.

731
00:31:56,200 --> 00:31:59,440
Speaker 3: All about the juicy. No, he shouldn't be doing that.

732
00:32:00,160 --> 00:32:02,760
Speaker 2: So in this case, uh, you know, as he recommends juicy,

733
00:32:02,760 --> 00:32:05,720
Speaker 2: Ferdy also rules against Mark, and he's sent to prison

734
00:32:06,040 --> 00:32:09,480
Speaker 2: right now, he's now about to stand trial. So what

735
00:32:09,520 --> 00:32:11,600
Speaker 2: does Mark do? Well, you know the answer. He tries

736
00:32:11,680 --> 00:32:12,400
Speaker 2: to escape again.

737
00:32:12,480 --> 00:32:14,160
Speaker 3: I mean, the thing is like they always say that

738
00:32:14,320 --> 00:32:17,240
Speaker 3: you know, by reason of insanity, means that like you

739
00:32:17,360 --> 00:32:19,720
Speaker 3: don't know that versus right versus wrong.

740
00:32:19,760 --> 00:32:20,520
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, exactly.

741
00:32:20,560 --> 00:32:23,120
Speaker 3: But it's all this is more of the competency and

742
00:32:23,160 --> 00:32:28,240
Speaker 3: it's like he's incapable of processing staying in jail. I mean,

743
00:32:28,240 --> 00:32:30,240
Speaker 3: and if you're going to gouge your own tooth.

744
00:32:30,280 --> 00:32:34,240
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, he's got plenty of evidence he's mentally under Yeah.

745
00:32:34,280 --> 00:32:35,280
Speaker 2: So when we'll get back.

746
00:32:35,200 --> 00:32:38,959
Speaker 3: To that point, toss like what's worse prison or the

747
00:32:39,000 --> 00:32:39,800
Speaker 3: prison mental health?

748
00:32:39,960 --> 00:32:42,400
Speaker 2: Truly? Yeah, it's a good question. So at this point

749
00:32:42,880 --> 00:32:46,920
Speaker 2: he tries to escape again, So he makes another zip gun. Sure,

750
00:32:46,960 --> 00:32:48,680
Speaker 2: as Mark puts it, you know how you go through

751
00:32:48,720 --> 00:32:52,480
Speaker 2: phases in life. I was in my Gunsmith phase. So

752
00:32:53,080 --> 00:32:55,320
Speaker 2: Mark makes a gun out of a rolled up toothpaste

753
00:32:55,360 --> 00:32:58,640
Speaker 2: tube and a bunch of rags. What Yeah, and obviously

754
00:32:58,640 --> 00:32:59,480
Speaker 2: in a bullet as well.

755
00:32:59,480 --> 00:33:01,920
Speaker 3: But that's is he getting these bullets?

756
00:33:02,120 --> 00:33:04,840
Speaker 2: Well, he's making them. You just have to, yeah, because

757
00:33:04,840 --> 00:33:07,520
Speaker 2: you just need like certain match heads as a propellant.

758
00:33:07,760 --> 00:33:08,000
Speaker 3: Yeah.

759
00:33:08,200 --> 00:33:09,680
Speaker 2: And then you just put it in like a tube.

760
00:33:10,400 --> 00:33:12,680
Speaker 2: You've made this small metal tube and you put something

761
00:33:12,680 --> 00:33:14,240
Speaker 2: on top of that that's packed in with the match

762
00:33:14,320 --> 00:33:16,680
Speaker 2: hads and then they go boom. Right, Well, we used

763
00:33:16,680 --> 00:33:18,320
Speaker 2: to make firecrackers out a match shed. You can make

764
00:33:18,320 --> 00:33:20,400
Speaker 2: a hell of a bomb out of matchets. So he

765
00:33:20,440 --> 00:33:23,200
Speaker 2: busts out right with others. Now, the prisoners with him

766
00:33:23,240 --> 00:33:26,280
Speaker 2: for that prison escape attempt, his fourth one. They chicken

767
00:33:26,320 --> 00:33:28,120
Speaker 2: out at the last minute because one of them says,

768
00:33:28,320 --> 00:33:30,680
Speaker 2: my mom is here this day. She came to visit me,

769
00:33:30,720 --> 00:33:32,280
Speaker 2: and I want to go back and see her.

770
00:33:32,320 --> 00:33:35,000
Speaker 3: And he's like, are you kidding me? We're escaping it

771
00:33:35,040 --> 00:33:38,160
Speaker 3: should have been. Everyone goes and then they all stop

772
00:33:38,200 --> 00:33:38,480
Speaker 3: and turn.

773
00:33:38,840 --> 00:33:40,960
Speaker 2: Long story short, the prison guards catch him before he

774
00:33:41,000 --> 00:33:43,400
Speaker 2: even makes it out of prison. So after his failed

775
00:33:43,400 --> 00:33:45,560
Speaker 2: attempt to escape, his fourth Mark is brought up on

776
00:33:45,640 --> 00:33:49,240
Speaker 2: even more charges. This time, Florida authority's charging with an

777
00:33:49,240 --> 00:33:51,680
Speaker 2: attempted murder because he fired his zip gun while he

778
00:33:51,760 --> 00:33:54,840
Speaker 2: was making his escape. He's thrown back in solitary confinement,

779
00:33:54,920 --> 00:33:57,040
Speaker 2: which is brutal. They want to break him and his

780
00:33:57,120 --> 00:34:00,720
Speaker 2: cavalier attitude about staying in prison. So there solitary, he's

781
00:34:00,720 --> 00:34:03,719
Speaker 2: stripped naked, he gets no mattress, no sheets, he has

782
00:34:03,760 --> 00:34:06,480
Speaker 2: to sleep on the stone floor. He gets no matches obviously,

783
00:34:06,520 --> 00:34:09,520
Speaker 2: no cigarettes, no toiletries, no toothpaste, no soap, no tissue,

784
00:34:09,600 --> 00:34:12,200
Speaker 2: no toilet paper, nothing. He doesn't even have water in

785
00:34:12,239 --> 00:34:14,440
Speaker 2: his cell, which means he can't flush the toilet. So

786
00:34:14,520 --> 00:34:16,240
Speaker 2: that's got to like just be like a health hazard.

787
00:34:16,800 --> 00:34:19,399
Speaker 3: Did worse than animals in the pound pretty much.

788
00:34:19,400 --> 00:34:21,239
Speaker 2: And to wash him, guards would just like stick a

789
00:34:21,280 --> 00:34:22,839
Speaker 2: hose in and then hose him in the cell down

790
00:34:22,840 --> 00:34:25,359
Speaker 2: with a fire hose. And when he gets food eat

791
00:34:25,400 --> 00:34:26,719
Speaker 2: he has to eat with his hands because he's allowed

792
00:34:26,800 --> 00:34:28,759
Speaker 2: no utensils because he may use those to pick a lock.

793
00:34:29,000 --> 00:34:30,759
Speaker 2: He also had no light because he punched out a

794
00:34:30,800 --> 00:34:32,840
Speaker 2: light to be able to get out before. So in

795
00:34:32,880 --> 00:34:36,239
Speaker 2: the official prison documents, the authorities even compared his confinement

796
00:34:36,239 --> 00:34:39,040
Speaker 2: to being any North Vietnamese prison camp. In their own words,

797
00:34:39,080 --> 00:34:40,320
Speaker 2: the people doing it are like, this is just like

798
00:34:40,320 --> 00:34:43,120
Speaker 2: a North Vietnamese prison camp. Yeah, so they knew what

799
00:34:43,200 --> 00:34:44,920
Speaker 2: they were doing. And Mark compared it to being in

800
00:34:44,960 --> 00:34:47,279
Speaker 2: a dungeon, like all naked in the loan. Also, oh

801
00:34:47,360 --> 00:34:49,520
Speaker 2: I forgot. Also, he had no communication with the outside

802
00:34:49,520 --> 00:34:52,640
Speaker 2: world or even with the guards unless it was absolutely necessary.

803
00:34:52,640 --> 00:34:53,839
Speaker 2: The guards, we're not supposed to speak.

804
00:34:54,000 --> 00:34:56,160
Speaker 3: This is worse than killing him totally.

805
00:34:56,200 --> 00:34:58,120
Speaker 2: This is all done to break him right, to make

806
00:34:58,200 --> 00:35:00,000
Speaker 2: him recognize that they are in charge and there'd be

807
00:35:00,120 --> 00:35:03,120
Speaker 2: absolutely no more escape attempts. And then they send in

808
00:35:03,440 --> 00:35:05,840
Speaker 2: the same dock from the Florida State Hospital doctor Berlin

809
00:35:05,880 --> 00:35:09,000
Speaker 2: to determine if he's now competent to stand trial. Oh,

810
00:35:09,080 --> 00:35:11,160
Speaker 2: let me guess right now, I gotta say I admire

811
00:35:11,200 --> 00:35:13,760
Speaker 2: Mark's will to live and to deny the prison's attempts

812
00:35:13,800 --> 00:35:16,320
Speaker 2: to break him, because eventually Mark's taken to a courthouse

813
00:35:16,360 --> 00:35:18,040
Speaker 2: and as he tells it, quote, they walk me over

814
00:35:18,080 --> 00:35:20,239
Speaker 2: to the courthouse and they say, plead guilty to life,

815
00:35:20,239 --> 00:35:22,440
Speaker 2: and we'll drop all these other cases we're charging with

816
00:35:22,520 --> 00:35:24,920
Speaker 2: that you picked up in jail. So in order to

817
00:35:24,920 --> 00:35:28,000
Speaker 2: get out of the hellhole of solitary confinement. Mark waives

818
00:35:28,000 --> 00:35:30,760
Speaker 2: his rights to legal counsel. His court assigned public defender

819
00:35:30,760 --> 00:35:32,960
Speaker 2: objects to what's going down, but Mark takes the offered

820
00:35:33,000 --> 00:35:35,920
Speaker 2: deal and he's given a life sentence. So he's like

821
00:35:35,960 --> 00:35:38,360
Speaker 2: twenty one years old at this point. I remember, Elizabeth,

822
00:35:38,400 --> 00:35:41,240
Speaker 2: This all started because Mark allegedly stole his father's tools,

823
00:35:41,280 --> 00:35:42,719
Speaker 2: which were willed to him.

824
00:35:42,920 --> 00:35:45,520
Speaker 3: Go back, we go back to that as the core crime.

825
00:35:45,960 --> 00:35:47,719
Speaker 2: All he had to do was wait for probate to clear,

826
00:35:47,840 --> 00:35:49,719
Speaker 2: but nope. So also if he had run from the

827
00:35:49,760 --> 00:35:51,600
Speaker 2: sheriff who came to his home back when he was nineteen,

828
00:35:52,000 --> 00:35:54,319
Speaker 2: and also he just lost his father, I mean like

829
00:35:54,400 --> 00:35:57,040
Speaker 2: he was in a lot of trauma and strain. Now

830
00:35:57,080 --> 00:36:00,560
Speaker 2: he's facing a life sentence in Florida's most brutal and

831
00:36:00,560 --> 00:36:03,120
Speaker 2: he's being punished for what being hard headed. He's just

832
00:36:03,160 --> 00:36:05,279
Speaker 2: being a punk kid who couldn't be broken. Yeah, But

833
00:36:05,320 --> 00:36:08,000
Speaker 2: also he's a savant and autistic loaner, right, but they

834
00:36:08,000 --> 00:36:10,480
Speaker 2: don't think of it in those terms. And therefore, the

835
00:36:10,560 --> 00:36:13,320
Speaker 2: one out of five doctors who determines he's competent to

836
00:36:13,360 --> 00:36:16,279
Speaker 2: stand trial, and he's now deemed competence, so they throw

837
00:36:16,280 --> 00:36:18,400
Speaker 2: away as the rights, he takes the plea deal. At

838
00:36:18,400 --> 00:36:21,360
Speaker 2: this point, at age twenty one, he's facing life in prison.

839
00:36:22,040 --> 00:36:23,920
Speaker 2: So let's take a little break and after this bevy

840
00:36:23,920 --> 00:36:25,880
Speaker 2: of ads, we'll get back to the story of Mark Defriest.

841
00:36:25,920 --> 00:36:27,480
Speaker 2: And I promise there is light at the end of

842
00:36:27,480 --> 00:36:30,560
Speaker 2: this tunnel, and also way more prison escapes, thank God,

843
00:36:50,560 --> 00:36:51,840
Speaker 2: And we're back Elizabeth.

844
00:36:51,960 --> 00:36:53,080
Speaker 3: Hello, you're ready.

845
00:36:52,880 --> 00:36:54,200
Speaker 2: To find the good side of this story.

846
00:36:54,320 --> 00:36:55,360
Speaker 3: I am desperate for you.

847
00:36:55,600 --> 00:36:56,600
Speaker 2: There is one, I promise you.

848
00:36:56,800 --> 00:36:59,160
Speaker 3: Because they seem to love the old torture chambers down

849
00:36:59,200 --> 00:36:59,960
Speaker 3: there in Florida.

850
00:37:00,040 --> 00:37:02,759
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, what have all those like Spanish fortresses with

851
00:37:02,880 --> 00:37:03,920
Speaker 2: all the Spanish boss.

852
00:37:03,880 --> 00:37:09,440
Speaker 3: And mentality apparently, you know, dehumanization is Yeah.

853
00:37:09,239 --> 00:37:11,600
Speaker 2: They're like, hey, let's get medieval with this. Yeah, So,

854
00:37:12,239 --> 00:37:15,000
Speaker 2: as I promised, there's more prison escapes. In October of

855
00:37:15,040 --> 00:37:17,600
Speaker 2: nineteen eighty one, at a place called Lean County Jail

856
00:37:17,640 --> 00:37:20,920
Speaker 2: and Tallahassee, Florida, m hmm, roughly two months after he

857
00:37:21,000 --> 00:37:23,600
Speaker 2: received his life sentence, Mark gets placed on a cell

858
00:37:23,640 --> 00:37:27,280
Speaker 2: block with nineteen black inmates. He's the only white inmate.

859
00:37:27,719 --> 00:37:31,080
Speaker 2: This was obviously done on purpose because Florida and the

860
00:37:31,120 --> 00:37:33,839
Speaker 2: prison guards tell the black inmates. If this guy does

861
00:37:33,880 --> 00:37:36,719
Speaker 2: anything wrong, we're taking the TV's away for you all

862
00:37:37,080 --> 00:37:40,560
Speaker 2: and your canteen privileges. So now they're using they're trying

863
00:37:40,600 --> 00:37:44,439
Speaker 2: to weaponize the black inmates against give pretty much. Yeah,

864
00:37:44,480 --> 00:37:47,479
Speaker 2: so one man race, right, Yeah. But Mark is able

865
00:37:47,480 --> 00:37:49,279
Speaker 2: to charm all the brothers and win them to his

866
00:37:49,400 --> 00:37:52,120
Speaker 2: side because, for one, all those black inmates had heard

867
00:37:52,120 --> 00:37:54,520
Speaker 2: about him, and so they tell Mark, hey, look, man,

868
00:37:54,520 --> 00:37:57,480
Speaker 2: we're trying to escape and you want to join us.

869
00:37:57,600 --> 00:38:00,560
Speaker 3: He's just real. I think this is when being on

870
00:38:00,600 --> 00:38:03,560
Speaker 3: the spectrum benefits, where he's like literal yeah, and he's

871
00:38:03,600 --> 00:38:05,400
Speaker 3: just going to tell you these you're just a person

872
00:38:05,440 --> 00:38:07,640
Speaker 3: to be a little sarcastic and funny about it at

873
00:38:07,680 --> 00:38:10,560
Speaker 3: the same time. And it's like he this is his wheelhouse.

874
00:38:10,920 --> 00:38:14,080
Speaker 2: He's like hey, and they respect how he is this

875
00:38:14,160 --> 00:38:16,200
Speaker 2: guy is because you point out his one hundred percent reel.

876
00:38:16,600 --> 00:38:18,440
Speaker 2: So Mark tells him, you guys are trying to escape.

877
00:38:18,440 --> 00:38:22,200
Speaker 2: I think that's a great idea. He asked them what

878
00:38:22,239 --> 00:38:23,920
Speaker 2: they have to bust out, and so they show them

879
00:38:23,920 --> 00:38:27,040
Speaker 2: their stash and they have like a stolen diamond chip,

880
00:38:27,120 --> 00:38:28,920
Speaker 2: saw blades, like a few dang.

881
00:38:29,000 --> 00:38:31,080
Speaker 3: They're like, yeah, we got supplies.

882
00:38:31,120 --> 00:38:32,759
Speaker 2: Yeah, they're ready. They're like, we've been waiting for a

883
00:38:32,800 --> 00:38:35,960
Speaker 2: Mark to come along. So Mark tells him quote, I say,

884
00:38:36,080 --> 00:38:38,200
Speaker 2: how long you guys had these? And they say, oh,

885
00:38:38,239 --> 00:38:40,080
Speaker 2: we had him about a month. I said, what are

886
00:38:40,120 --> 00:38:43,680
Speaker 2: you still doing here? So boom. Just like that, they

887
00:38:43,719 --> 00:38:45,880
Speaker 2: make him in charge of their prison escape plan. They're like,

888
00:38:45,920 --> 00:38:47,680
Speaker 2: show us how to do it, brother, Yeah, and the

889
00:38:47,800 --> 00:38:50,000
Speaker 2: first thing starts, as Mark recalls it, I ripped the

890
00:38:50,040 --> 00:38:52,680
Speaker 2: toilets off the wall. I took the damn light fixtures apart,

891
00:38:52,680 --> 00:38:54,200
Speaker 2: and I got some pipes and I made a double

892
00:38:54,239 --> 00:38:59,480
Speaker 2: barrel zip gun. Now we're talking. He's back in business.

893
00:38:59,480 --> 00:39:02,040
Speaker 2: Got double carrel' zip gun. He's cool. I do love.

894
00:39:02,080 --> 00:39:03,279
Speaker 2: He has no quit in him, like.

895
00:39:03,280 --> 00:39:04,719
Speaker 3: Just zero zero zero.

896
00:39:04,840 --> 00:39:07,720
Speaker 2: So, as Mark tells it, quote, I started sawing the bars.

897
00:39:07,800 --> 00:39:10,279
Speaker 2: It takes eight hours to get through one cut, eight

898
00:39:10,320 --> 00:39:12,720
Speaker 2: hours to get through another cut. And I gotta admit

899
00:39:13,080 --> 00:39:15,600
Speaker 2: things were coming apart in there because they're starting to doubt,

900
00:39:15,640 --> 00:39:17,400
Speaker 2: like is this the plan? Like he's taking you a

901
00:39:17,400 --> 00:39:19,399
Speaker 2: long time. He's liked, don't trust me, give me another

902
00:39:19,440 --> 00:39:22,399
Speaker 2: eight hours. So Mark gets the idea that that he's

903
00:39:22,440 --> 00:39:24,759
Speaker 2: now about five minutes away from them. Taking away his

904
00:39:24,840 --> 00:39:27,040
Speaker 2: zip gun and just using it on him, or perhaps

905
00:39:27,040 --> 00:39:28,680
Speaker 2: handing it over to the guards, or handing him over

906
00:39:28,719 --> 00:39:31,480
Speaker 2: to the guards or whatever. But the brothers don't because

907
00:39:31,480 --> 00:39:34,440
Speaker 2: they still trust his escape plan. Back to Mark. So

908
00:39:34,480 --> 00:39:37,080
Speaker 2: at nine o'clock I made the move and Bob Seger

909
00:39:37,160 --> 00:39:39,600
Speaker 2: was on the TV playing Turn the Page. You know

910
00:39:39,680 --> 00:39:44,880
Speaker 2: that's all right here? I am on the road again, right, So,

911
00:39:45,000 --> 00:39:47,160
Speaker 2: I mean, like, what a perfect song to soundtrack your

912
00:39:47,160 --> 00:39:51,360
Speaker 2: prison escape. You feel like God is on your side. Anyway,

913
00:39:51,440 --> 00:39:53,399
Speaker 2: back to his escape attempt. Once the bars are cut

914
00:39:53,400 --> 00:39:55,640
Speaker 2: off the window, Mark looks out and he sees freedom.

915
00:39:55,640 --> 00:39:57,480
Speaker 2: He's like, we're rolling, guys. The guys are like, I

916
00:39:57,480 --> 00:40:00,560
Speaker 2: don't know, because he's three floors up. The brothers are like,

917
00:40:00,600 --> 00:40:03,480
Speaker 2: you're on your own, white boy, good luck. So he's

918
00:40:03,520 --> 00:40:05,920
Speaker 2: uses a bunch of sheets knodded together, and that lowers

919
00:40:05,960 --> 00:40:07,600
Speaker 2: him only part of the way down.

920
00:40:08,160 --> 00:40:09,480
Speaker 3: I mean, you don't have to go all the way

921
00:40:09,520 --> 00:40:10,080
Speaker 3: to the ground.

922
00:40:10,280 --> 00:40:14,319
Speaker 2: Yeah no, Well he gets down not close enough and

923
00:40:14,360 --> 00:40:17,880
Speaker 2: then just jumps Mark. But rather than me tell you

924
00:40:17,920 --> 00:40:20,080
Speaker 2: what happens next to Elizabeth, I'd like you to close

925
00:40:20,080 --> 00:40:30,239
Speaker 2: your eyes and I'd like you to picture it. It's

926
00:40:30,360 --> 00:40:34,160
Speaker 2: nighttime outside the Leon County Prison in Florida, and you, Elizabeth,

927
00:40:34,200 --> 00:40:36,920
Speaker 2: are falling through the air, plummeting to the ground because

928
00:40:36,960 --> 00:40:40,680
Speaker 2: you are marked to Freeze's right boot. The night air

929
00:40:40,760 --> 00:40:43,000
Speaker 2: is cool against your leather as you race toward the

930
00:40:43,000 --> 00:40:46,719
Speaker 2: wet grass below. When you slam into the dew laden groundcover,

931
00:40:46,840 --> 00:40:50,359
Speaker 2: you hear Mark de frieze grunt, ye, shock and pain.

932
00:40:50,840 --> 00:40:53,440
Speaker 2: But this doesn't stop him because he's bound for freedom.

933
00:40:53,760 --> 00:40:56,640
Speaker 2: You feel yourself lift and then fall, lift and then

934
00:40:56,680 --> 00:41:00,720
Speaker 2: fall again. You recognize he's running, or sort of half limping,

935
00:41:00,880 --> 00:41:04,160
Speaker 2: half running. You're now by the way in the women's

936
00:41:04,320 --> 00:41:07,680
Speaker 2: exercise yard at the women's prison next door, but not

937
00:41:07,719 --> 00:41:10,800
Speaker 2: for long. At a chain link fence, you're shoved into

938
00:41:10,960 --> 00:41:13,000
Speaker 2: a section of the fence, and with an audible pain

939
00:41:13,080 --> 00:41:15,799
Speaker 2: in his voice, you hear Mark muscle his way up

940
00:41:15,880 --> 00:41:18,600
Speaker 2: the hurricane of fencing. At the top is razor wire,

941
00:41:18,640 --> 00:41:21,719
Speaker 2: which soon enough scratches against your leather sides as he

942
00:41:21,760 --> 00:41:25,040
Speaker 2: flips himself up and over the razor wire. Now you

943
00:41:25,120 --> 00:41:27,520
Speaker 2: feel the hard asphalt of a road come rushing up

944
00:41:27,520 --> 00:41:31,560
Speaker 2: and booms strike. Mark then begins to limp walk down

945
00:41:31,640 --> 00:41:34,279
Speaker 2: the road, and you're guessing that He's probably broken his

946
00:41:34,320 --> 00:41:36,600
Speaker 2: ankle based on how quickly you can feel the swelling

947
00:41:36,640 --> 00:41:39,920
Speaker 2: start to press against you. But he doesn't stop. Turns

948
00:41:39,920 --> 00:41:43,320
Speaker 2: out he's broken both ankles and both wrists from the falls,

949
00:41:44,160 --> 00:41:46,880
Speaker 2: yet he doesn't give up. Instead, Mark keeps going, you

950
00:41:46,920 --> 00:41:49,239
Speaker 2: don't know this because you're a leather prison boot. But

951
00:41:49,320 --> 00:41:51,680
Speaker 2: he spots a big rig truck in the parking lot.

952
00:41:51,719 --> 00:41:54,480
Speaker 2: It's an International rig. You become aware of it as

953
00:41:54,480 --> 00:41:57,239
Speaker 2: he steps up onto the truck, opens the door and

954
00:41:57,280 --> 00:42:00,399
Speaker 2: climbs inside. He quickly hot wires the truck, and then

955
00:42:00,480 --> 00:42:03,120
Speaker 2: that big rig fires to light. Next thing you know,

956
00:42:03,239 --> 00:42:05,920
Speaker 2: you're pressing down on a gas pedal as the truck's

957
00:42:05,920 --> 00:42:09,680
Speaker 2: engine roars with throaty menace against the stillness of the night.

958
00:42:10,160 --> 00:42:13,120
Speaker 2: The big rig rumbles out of that parking lot. When

959
00:42:13,120 --> 00:42:16,160
Speaker 2: Mark spots the police cars parked down the road as

960
00:42:16,200 --> 00:42:19,480
Speaker 2: a roadblock, you feel him pressed down hard on you,

961
00:42:19,920 --> 00:42:22,800
Speaker 2: and you press down hard against the truck's gas pedal.

962
00:42:23,000 --> 00:42:26,040
Speaker 2: With a terrific boom, the cock cars give way to

963
00:42:26,120 --> 00:42:29,400
Speaker 2: the big rig truck. As Willie Nelson was saying, you're

964
00:42:29,560 --> 00:42:32,719
Speaker 2: on the road again. You can hear police sirens. They're

965
00:42:32,719 --> 00:42:35,400
Speaker 2: well tuned engines as they race to catch up to

966
00:42:35,440 --> 00:42:38,520
Speaker 2: the big rig. A police officer and a Ford Faremont

967
00:42:38,760 --> 00:42:41,160
Speaker 2: pulls up just behind the big rig. That's about the

968
00:42:41,160 --> 00:42:43,480
Speaker 2: same time when Mark uses you to hit the brakes.

969
00:42:43,960 --> 00:42:46,080
Speaker 2: You push down on the brake pedal, and then after

970
00:42:46,120 --> 00:42:48,920
Speaker 2: a grinding of the gears, it's back to the gas pedal.

971
00:42:49,080 --> 00:42:51,320
Speaker 2: I mean, now the big rig is moving in reverse.

972
00:42:51,680 --> 00:42:55,000
Speaker 2: The truck climbs right up onto that police cruiser, crushing

973
00:42:55,040 --> 00:42:58,280
Speaker 2: it with its way. Mark laughs with a fiendish glee.

974
00:42:58,680 --> 00:43:02,240
Speaker 2: And then come the gunshot. These Florida cups ain't playing around.

975
00:43:02,320 --> 00:43:06,160
Speaker 2: Bullets ricochet around inside the truck. One sings right past you.

976
00:43:06,600 --> 00:43:09,439
Speaker 2: But Mark isn't about to quit. He presses you down

977
00:43:09,520 --> 00:43:12,279
Speaker 2: against the gas pedal again. But he's no longer looking

978
00:43:12,280 --> 00:43:14,360
Speaker 2: where the truck is headed. Says he's hiding from the

979
00:43:14,400 --> 00:43:17,760
Speaker 2: hail of bullets. You feel the big rig hits something,

980
00:43:17,880 --> 00:43:20,960
Speaker 2: but something is stout and unforgiving. It turns out it's

981
00:43:21,000 --> 00:43:23,960
Speaker 2: the wall of a living room of someone's home. The

982
00:43:24,000 --> 00:43:26,680
Speaker 2: big rig barrels into the home. Luckily, due to the

983
00:43:26,680 --> 00:43:29,080
Speaker 2: hour of the night, no one is in the living room.

984
00:43:29,320 --> 00:43:31,160
Speaker 2: That makes you feel a little better. You are on

985
00:43:31,360 --> 00:43:34,080
Speaker 2: very moral boot and you feel much better knowing that

986
00:43:34,160 --> 00:43:35,960
Speaker 2: this wild ride is now done.

987
00:43:36,520 --> 00:43:37,640
Speaker 3: Oh my god.

988
00:43:38,920 --> 00:43:43,399
Speaker 2: Good. So that was his fifth prison escape attempt. Now

989
00:43:43,440 --> 00:43:45,640
Speaker 2: in the documentary, Mark has asked about this, and more

990
00:43:45,680 --> 00:43:48,960
Speaker 2: generally about his series of terrible choices, his history of

991
00:43:49,000 --> 00:43:52,240
Speaker 2: resistance all and his many attempts to escape, and Marks

992
00:43:52,280 --> 00:43:54,239
Speaker 2: asked to explain why it is that he does the

993
00:43:54,239 --> 00:43:56,640
Speaker 2: things that he does. Yeah, he says, he sees all

994
00:43:56,680 --> 00:43:59,600
Speaker 2: of his attempts as attempts to survive, even if all

995
00:43:59,600 --> 00:44:01,560
Speaker 2: of his choice this is actually caused him more trouble

996
00:44:02,000 --> 00:44:05,839
Speaker 2: and earn him more time. Mark stoically explains, quote, I'm

997
00:44:05,840 --> 00:44:08,240
Speaker 2: still alive, and a lot of people I know, ain't

998
00:44:08,680 --> 00:44:10,440
Speaker 2: you know if i'd been just a rapist or a

999
00:44:10,560 --> 00:44:13,560
Speaker 2: murderer or something, they let me out. I'm the idiot

1000
00:44:13,600 --> 00:44:16,520
Speaker 2: that made them look like idiots. Yeah, so he knows

1001
00:44:16,560 --> 00:44:18,520
Speaker 2: why he's being punished, but he cannot stop himself.

1002
00:44:18,600 --> 00:44:21,160
Speaker 3: Well because they also they treat him like an animal,

1003
00:44:21,200 --> 00:44:23,800
Speaker 3: and she's acting like a caged animal. Doesn't do anything

1004
00:44:23,840 --> 00:44:24,200
Speaker 3: to get out.

1005
00:44:24,400 --> 00:44:27,279
Speaker 2: Very good point, totally this, but also his quote kind

1006
00:44:27,320 --> 00:44:30,480
Speaker 2: of says it all. Because Mark DeFries makes terrible choices. Yes,

1007
00:44:30,480 --> 00:44:33,759
Speaker 2: most certainly he knows it. He's also punished unfairly because

1008
00:44:33,760 --> 00:44:35,920
Speaker 2: he just won't let the prison break him. He has

1009
00:44:35,960 --> 00:44:39,040
Speaker 2: this indomitable spirit that his father imbued him with, and

1010
00:44:39,040 --> 00:44:41,759
Speaker 2: in response, he's punished far more than anyone else he

1011
00:44:41,840 --> 00:44:47,040
Speaker 2: ever meets in prison, including murderers, rapists, horrific criminals. Ultimately,

1012
00:44:47,080 --> 00:44:49,560
Speaker 2: so it's not his crimes per se, it's his attitude

1013
00:44:49,560 --> 00:44:53,040
Speaker 2: that they're trying to punish. Now, the Leon County Prison

1014
00:44:53,160 --> 00:44:55,200
Speaker 2: escape attempt was the last straw for the state of

1015
00:44:55,200 --> 00:44:57,520
Speaker 2: Florida in nineteen eighty two. He's transferred back to the

1016
00:44:57,560 --> 00:45:00,600
Speaker 2: hellhole known as the Florida State Prison, which the warden

1017
00:45:00,680 --> 00:45:03,960
Speaker 2: there called quote hell on Earth. The ward knew what

1018
00:45:04,000 --> 00:45:07,680
Speaker 2: it was, Yeah, Mark was by design, Yeah exactly. Marks

1019
00:45:07,719 --> 00:45:10,120
Speaker 2: then put in the X wing, where only the most brutal,

1020
00:45:10,200 --> 00:45:11,360
Speaker 2: hardened criminals.

1021
00:45:10,960 --> 00:45:14,080
Speaker 3: Were sent for essentially stealing tools, yes, and.

1022
00:45:14,040 --> 00:45:16,600
Speaker 2: Trying to constantly escape and make them look like idiots. Right.

1023
00:45:16,719 --> 00:45:19,759
Speaker 2: His cell is located just above the electric chair, so

1024
00:45:19,800 --> 00:45:22,680
Speaker 2: he have to hear all the executions. At one point

1025
00:45:22,680 --> 00:45:25,120
Speaker 2: while he's there, the serial killer Ted Bundy gets sent

1026
00:45:25,239 --> 00:45:28,239
Speaker 2: to meet his maker in that same electric chair. As

1027
00:45:28,280 --> 00:45:30,520
Speaker 2: Mark tells it, quote Ted Bundy was my neighbor for

1028
00:45:30,520 --> 00:45:32,480
Speaker 2: a long time. I was in the cell right above

1029
00:45:32,520 --> 00:45:35,759
Speaker 2: him when they barbecued his dumb Oh god. Yeah. So

1030
00:45:35,880 --> 00:45:38,200
Speaker 2: in the X wing, Mark was kept in a seven

1031
00:45:38,360 --> 00:45:41,160
Speaker 2: x eight windowless cell that was specially designed to hold him.

1032
00:45:41,360 --> 00:45:44,080
Speaker 2: And in that special windowless cell he spends ten years

1033
00:45:44,160 --> 00:45:46,399
Speaker 2: without ever seeing the sun. They weren't letting him out,

1034
00:45:46,480 --> 00:45:49,160
Speaker 2: not even like the hour outside.

1035
00:45:48,800 --> 00:45:49,880
Speaker 3: Ten years.

1036
00:45:50,120 --> 00:45:52,120
Speaker 2: That's not all. There was also his prison diet that

1037
00:45:52,120 --> 00:45:54,480
Speaker 2: they were feeding him. They serve him what's called prison loaf.

1038
00:45:54,840 --> 00:45:56,680
Speaker 2: It's like a meat loaf, except there's no meat in

1039
00:45:56,719 --> 00:45:59,080
Speaker 2: this loaf. Yeah, Instead it's just an unseasoned loaf of

1040
00:45:59,120 --> 00:46:02,279
Speaker 2: like smashed vegetables, beans and enough starch to keep him

1041
00:46:02,280 --> 00:46:04,799
Speaker 2: on this side of the grass. Can you imagine that's

1042
00:46:04,840 --> 00:46:06,240
Speaker 2: all you ever get? Deep prison loaf?

1043
00:46:06,719 --> 00:46:08,840
Speaker 3: And then you think about like what that's going to

1044
00:46:08,920 --> 00:46:12,320
Speaker 3: do to your physical health, I mean, like the vitamin

1045
00:46:12,400 --> 00:46:15,480
Speaker 3: D deficiency alone totally, And then you think of all

1046
00:46:15,520 --> 00:46:18,200
Speaker 3: of just like the health ramifications of not having the

1047
00:46:18,200 --> 00:46:20,839
Speaker 3: full diet, not being able to move, not getting fresh air.

1048
00:46:21,800 --> 00:46:24,840
Speaker 2: So he starts to like spiral, if you will, oh sure, now,

1049
00:46:24,880 --> 00:46:26,960
Speaker 2: if you can believe it, Mark still tries to escape prison.

1050
00:46:27,440 --> 00:46:29,480
Speaker 2: At one point, he's able to pull this stunt reopens

1051
00:46:29,520 --> 00:46:31,320
Speaker 2: all the cell doors on his cell block at the

1052
00:46:31,360 --> 00:46:34,520
Speaker 2: same time. To this day, prison authorities still can't figure

1053
00:46:34,520 --> 00:46:36,680
Speaker 2: out how this mechanical genius did it, so they don't

1054
00:46:36,719 --> 00:46:38,439
Speaker 2: know how to stop it if that ever happened again.

1055
00:46:38,520 --> 00:46:41,040
Speaker 2: Lucky there's no other Mark Defriese around to try this.

1056
00:46:41,160 --> 00:46:41,399
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1057
00:46:41,600 --> 00:46:44,120
Speaker 2: All in all, his time inside earns him two hundred

1058
00:46:44,160 --> 00:46:47,920
Speaker 2: and nine disciplinary reports. It's reported to be a record

1059
00:46:47,960 --> 00:46:50,200
Speaker 2: number for a single inmate in the Florida prison system.

1060
00:46:50,239 --> 00:46:52,200
Speaker 2: He holds the record for the most does they call

1061
00:46:52,280 --> 00:46:53,440
Speaker 2: him dr So you get to that.

1062
00:46:53,520 --> 00:46:55,640
Speaker 3: Point, you're just like, yeah, let's let's see how far

1063
00:46:55,680 --> 00:46:56,120
Speaker 3: he can push it.

1064
00:46:56,160 --> 00:46:58,520
Speaker 2: Pretty much. And he also he can't. He is compulsive.

1065
00:46:58,560 --> 00:46:59,359
Speaker 2: He cannot help him.

1066
00:46:59,440 --> 00:47:00,000
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1067
00:47:00,120 --> 00:47:02,360
Speaker 2: Over his decades inside the Florida penal system, Mark is

1068
00:47:02,400 --> 00:47:05,800
Speaker 2: often able to use his special talents for taking things apart.

1069
00:47:06,000 --> 00:47:08,400
Speaker 2: So he was known to memorize a prison guard's keys

1070
00:47:08,440 --> 00:47:10,480
Speaker 2: on his key ring and just by seeing them, and

1071
00:47:10,480 --> 00:47:12,719
Speaker 2: then he'd fabricate a copy of the key using a

1072
00:47:12,760 --> 00:47:15,279
Speaker 2: prison dinner tray because they were aluminum and they were

1073
00:47:15,320 --> 00:47:17,040
Speaker 2: the right way for him to make a key.

1074
00:47:17,520 --> 00:47:19,319
Speaker 3: No way so that.

1075
00:47:19,239 --> 00:47:21,399
Speaker 2: Meant often when his cell was rousted and they would

1076
00:47:21,440 --> 00:47:23,760
Speaker 2: go like searching through it, guards would often find homemade

1077
00:47:23,800 --> 00:47:27,720
Speaker 2: aluminum handcuff keys along with hacksaw blades. One time guards

1078
00:47:27,719 --> 00:47:29,960
Speaker 2: found this key hidden in his mouth. It was hidden

1079
00:47:30,000 --> 00:47:32,080
Speaker 2: so well that only an X ray of his skull

1080
00:47:32,160 --> 00:47:34,759
Speaker 2: revealed where he'd hidden it. They could not find it

1081
00:47:34,840 --> 00:47:37,160
Speaker 2: just searching around. Yes, I do not know how he

1082
00:47:37,200 --> 00:47:39,719
Speaker 2: did that. So, as Mark says, quote, I know a

1083
00:47:39,760 --> 00:47:43,279
Speaker 2: lot of secret prison crafts, weapons, locks and keys, stashes,

1084
00:47:43,320 --> 00:47:46,319
Speaker 2: all sorts of bizarre. My prison file is two and

1085
00:47:46,320 --> 00:47:48,680
Speaker 2: a half feet thick, and it reads like a double

1086
00:47:48,680 --> 00:47:52,319
Speaker 2: oh seven James Bond Spye novel Oh my God. Yeah,

1087
00:47:52,360 --> 00:47:55,359
Speaker 2: and that becomes another prison nickname is a double oh

1088
00:47:55,520 --> 00:47:58,160
Speaker 2: seven James Bond. Right. So I should also point out

1089
00:47:58,160 --> 00:48:00,560
Speaker 2: Mark used his special skill set to make good things,

1090
00:48:00,880 --> 00:48:02,799
Speaker 2: like at one point in the eighties he invented the

1091
00:48:02,800 --> 00:48:05,359
Speaker 2: butt man. Elizabeth, you want to guess what the butt

1092
00:48:05,360 --> 00:48:09,360
Speaker 2: man is? Oh, As Marcas says, Sony had the walkman,

1093
00:48:09,840 --> 00:48:12,440
Speaker 2: he invented the butt Man. It's a homemade radio that

1094
00:48:12,480 --> 00:48:15,160
Speaker 2: a prisoner so can secure in his holiest of holies.

1095
00:48:15,480 --> 00:48:18,440
Speaker 2: It was the size of a big cigarette lighter and

1096
00:48:18,480 --> 00:48:20,640
Speaker 2: so late at night he could pull this out and

1097
00:48:20,719 --> 00:48:22,680
Speaker 2: listen to the radio in his cell, which gave him

1098
00:48:22,840 --> 00:48:25,759
Speaker 2: a small escape. In the documentary, he talks about listening

1099
00:48:25,800 --> 00:48:28,680
Speaker 2: to guns and roses knocking on Heaven's door. He also

1100
00:48:28,680 --> 00:48:31,160
Speaker 2: remembers later on in the nineties listening to Alison Chain's

1101
00:48:31,160 --> 00:48:34,480
Speaker 2: Man in the Box, all very fitting songs, all thanks

1102
00:48:34,560 --> 00:48:36,960
Speaker 2: to his buttman radio now, which was of course illegal,

1103
00:48:36,960 --> 00:48:40,080
Speaker 2: which means more prison time. When the guards found all

1104
00:48:40,120 --> 00:48:42,399
Speaker 2: of his escapes and as many rules violation earned Mark

1105
00:48:42,600 --> 00:48:44,799
Speaker 2: all sorts of additional prison time. At one point, the

1106
00:48:44,880 --> 00:48:48,600
Speaker 2: date for his eventual parol was the year twenty forty.

1107
00:48:48,680 --> 00:48:51,520
Speaker 2: Later on it was the year twenty eighty five. He

1108
00:48:51,560 --> 00:48:53,600
Speaker 2: would have been one hundred and twenty five years old

1109
00:48:53,640 --> 00:48:56,439
Speaker 2: in twenty eighty five. The state of Florida seemed awfully

1110
00:48:56,480 --> 00:48:59,239
Speaker 2: optimistic about how long he'd last inside, because they're like, yep,

1111
00:48:59,239 --> 00:49:02,560
Speaker 2: we're holding um till five. But then in nineteen eighty six,

1112
00:49:02,640 --> 00:49:05,920
Speaker 2: Mark finally catches some good luck. Enter John Middleton, a lawyer.

1113
00:49:06,280 --> 00:49:08,600
Speaker 2: Middleton starts to argue for his case, takes him on

1114
00:49:08,600 --> 00:49:11,240
Speaker 2: as a client, and he argues for a compassionate release

1115
00:49:11,280 --> 00:49:13,120
Speaker 2: of his client. While still acknowledging that he has a

1116
00:49:13,120 --> 00:49:16,560
Speaker 2: disruptive and cavalier force. In a story from The Miami,

1117
00:49:16,600 --> 00:49:22,319
Speaker 2: Harold Middleton says, quote, He's not shanking or stabbing anyone,

1118
00:49:22,480 --> 00:49:25,800
Speaker 2: and he points out that Mark's disciplinary reports aren't violent offenses.

1119
00:49:25,840 --> 00:49:29,520
Speaker 2: Instead they are quote for possessing contraband. He's made his

1120
00:49:29,560 --> 00:49:33,720
Speaker 2: own alcohol. He's had weapons, usually defensive. He's not hurt people.

1121
00:49:33,840 --> 00:49:35,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, so that's a good point to make, it is.

1122
00:49:35,880 --> 00:49:38,640
Speaker 2: It needs to be said. Now, with Middleton representing them together,

1123
00:49:38,680 --> 00:49:40,920
Speaker 2: they begin to fight to get Mark free. In this

1124
00:49:40,960 --> 00:49:44,400
Speaker 2: fight last decades. But then Mark finds a second ally

1125
00:49:44,440 --> 00:49:47,120
Speaker 2: and source of support. You see, Elizabeth Mark found love

1126
00:49:47,560 --> 00:49:51,560
Speaker 2: enter his wife Bonnie. In an email interview with Florida Weekly,

1127
00:49:51,640 --> 00:49:53,600
Speaker 2: she wrote about how the two met and first fell

1128
00:49:53,640 --> 00:49:55,640
Speaker 2: in love, which ain't easy when one of you is

1129
00:49:55,680 --> 00:49:58,239
Speaker 2: in prison on a life sentence. Yea, as she explained it,

1130
00:49:58,280 --> 00:50:01,000
Speaker 2: although she lived in Montana, I first met Mark via

1131
00:50:01,040 --> 00:50:04,400
Speaker 2: a pen Pal list, one dedicated to quote metaphysics and

1132
00:50:04,480 --> 00:50:08,000
Speaker 2: higher consciousness and that it quotes somehow fell into the

1133
00:50:08,040 --> 00:50:11,920
Speaker 2: hands of inmates at FSP like Florida State Prison. Somehow, Yeah, Elizabeth,

1134
00:50:11,920 --> 00:50:14,080
Speaker 2: you worked in a state prison teaching English, so you

1135
00:50:14,120 --> 00:50:17,160
Speaker 2: know firsthand how penpals can be a lifeline for inmates.

1136
00:50:17,480 --> 00:50:20,319
Speaker 2: They could also be a love line, sure, and the

1137
00:50:20,360 --> 00:50:23,480
Speaker 2: two began to share regular letters. As Bonnie told Florida

1138
00:50:23,560 --> 00:50:26,440
Speaker 2: Weekly Quote, although I was a little uneasy about writing

1139
00:50:26,440 --> 00:50:28,880
Speaker 2: to an inmate, as I had never known one before,

1140
00:50:29,040 --> 00:50:31,840
Speaker 2: I felt drawn to him, and I chose love instead

1141
00:50:31,880 --> 00:50:34,480
Speaker 2: of fear, feeling that this man needs my help, so

1142
00:50:34,560 --> 00:50:37,640
Speaker 2: I began my letter to him, dear holy child of God,

1143
00:50:38,040 --> 00:50:40,359
Speaker 2: Oh goodness. Eventually the two fall in love, and then

1144
00:50:40,400 --> 00:50:43,360
Speaker 2: in May of nineteen ninety four, they get married in Montana.

1145
00:50:43,920 --> 00:50:44,960
Speaker 2: How is that possible?

1146
00:50:45,239 --> 00:50:47,440
Speaker 3: That's a good question, Saren. Thank you for us.

1147
00:50:47,640 --> 00:50:50,600
Speaker 2: It was a proxy marriage, one wherein Mark's brothers stood

1148
00:50:50,600 --> 00:50:53,839
Speaker 2: at the altar in his place. No, but then five, oh,

1149
00:50:53,880 --> 00:50:55,880
Speaker 2: totally a thing. Yeah, military people do it. And then

1150
00:50:55,960 --> 00:50:59,000
Speaker 2: five days after they were married in Montana, for their honeymoon,

1151
00:50:59,080 --> 00:51:00,960
Speaker 2: she travels down to fl so they can meet for

1152
00:51:01,000 --> 00:51:04,920
Speaker 2: the first time in person. Now here's Bonnie's version of

1153
00:51:04,960 --> 00:51:07,799
Speaker 2: that first meeting, as told to Florida Weekly Quote. I

1154
00:51:07,880 --> 00:51:10,160
Speaker 2: waited in the visiting room for him to appear, and

1155
00:51:10,200 --> 00:51:13,840
Speaker 2: then saw him come through the door from the changing room.

1156
00:51:14,200 --> 00:51:18,040
Speaker 2: I practically sprouted wings and flew into his arms. The

1157
00:51:18,080 --> 00:51:22,680
Speaker 2: attraction was so powerful, the energy between us undeniable. His

1158
00:51:22,800 --> 00:51:26,680
Speaker 2: response was immediate, as his tall, lanky bodies arms took

1159
00:51:26,719 --> 00:51:29,879
Speaker 2: possession of me and he planted a wonderful, deep kiss

1160
00:51:29,920 --> 00:51:33,400
Speaker 2: on my mouth. Yes, ladies, he is a good kisser.

1161
00:51:33,520 --> 00:51:34,080
Speaker 3: Oh good God.

1162
00:51:34,320 --> 00:51:37,040
Speaker 2: Now, Elizabeth, there are what we call May December relationships.

1163
00:51:37,680 --> 00:51:41,360
Speaker 2: There was a May December relationship from like different calendar years.

1164
00:51:41,760 --> 00:51:45,600
Speaker 2: Because Mark was born in nineteen sixty No, Bonnie was

1165
00:51:45,600 --> 00:51:47,240
Speaker 2: born in nineteen thirty.

1166
00:51:47,520 --> 00:51:48,000
Speaker 3: No.

1167
00:51:48,640 --> 00:51:51,440
Speaker 2: When they married, she was sixty four years old and

1168
00:51:51,480 --> 00:51:54,839
Speaker 2: he was thirty four years old. However, love doesn't care

1169
00:51:54,840 --> 00:51:57,840
Speaker 2: about calendars, Elizabeth, as she told the Miami Herald in

1170
00:51:57,880 --> 00:52:00,560
Speaker 2: a phone interview, quote through his letters, I could see

1171
00:52:00,560 --> 00:52:02,279
Speaker 2: he was a good person in his soul and in

1172
00:52:02,320 --> 00:52:04,719
Speaker 2: a lot of emotional pain. I love him on a

1173
00:52:04,800 --> 00:52:08,680
Speaker 2: much deeper level than I have ever loved anyone. And

1174
00:52:08,800 --> 00:52:11,640
Speaker 2: you know, like any couple, they shared their finances. For instance,

1175
00:52:11,640 --> 00:52:14,040
Speaker 2: she was able to sponsor three orphans in India with

1176
00:52:14,160 --> 00:52:17,640
Speaker 2: money that he made from selling contraband in prison, So

1177
00:52:17,760 --> 00:52:20,280
Speaker 2: you know they were able to make do as a couple. Sure, Okay,

1178
00:52:20,680 --> 00:52:25,920
Speaker 2: the Indian Orphans with contraband. It's of course it's difficult

1179
00:52:25,960 --> 00:52:28,080
Speaker 2: to be separate from the person you love. The plus

1180
00:52:28,120 --> 00:52:30,600
Speaker 2: there is that age gap. But Bonnie was optimistic and

1181
00:52:30,680 --> 00:52:33,920
Speaker 2: remained optimistic as Mark is also equally realistic. As she

1182
00:52:33,960 --> 00:52:36,920
Speaker 2: put it, quote, I have some heart problems and pretty

1183
00:52:36,920 --> 00:52:39,160
Speaker 2: severe arthritis in my back and knees, so I have

1184
00:52:39,200 --> 00:52:42,080
Speaker 2: to walk with some support. He feels determined to come

1185
00:52:42,080 --> 00:52:44,640
Speaker 2: home and take care of me, And that's a plus

1186
00:52:44,760 --> 00:52:45,040
Speaker 2: for me.

1187
00:52:46,120 --> 00:52:49,279
Speaker 3: Like when you take her description of him and then

1188
00:52:49,320 --> 00:52:51,280
Speaker 3: put it up against the quotes you've read.

1189
00:52:51,120 --> 00:52:54,440
Speaker 2: Yes, like it's a little in congress, a little bit.

1190
00:52:54,719 --> 00:52:56,600
Speaker 2: Thanks to all of his time inside, Mark had time

1191
00:52:56,600 --> 00:52:58,480
Speaker 2: for arts and crafts, so he would send her thoughtful

1192
00:52:58,520 --> 00:53:00,799
Speaker 2: gifts and shows of his love. For instance, as she

1193
00:53:00,840 --> 00:53:03,759
Speaker 2: told the Miami Herald, quote, lately he has taken up

1194
00:53:03,840 --> 00:53:06,799
Speaker 2: knitting and crocheg. He's done a good job, made me

1195
00:53:06,880 --> 00:53:08,760
Speaker 2: a shawl without dropping a stitch.

1196
00:53:09,520 --> 00:53:12,240
Speaker 3: There's a reason behind him picking up these crafts.

1197
00:53:12,280 --> 00:53:13,840
Speaker 2: Like that's another We's got a lot of time on

1198
00:53:13,880 --> 00:53:14,440
Speaker 2: his hands. Yeah.

1199
00:53:14,480 --> 00:53:17,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, And it's also it's like I'd be really keeping

1200
00:53:17,120 --> 00:53:17,640
Speaker 3: an eye on him.

1201
00:53:18,040 --> 00:53:19,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's getting their tools again.

1202
00:53:19,480 --> 00:53:20,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly.

1203
00:53:20,320 --> 00:53:22,680
Speaker 2: So to get her husband free, she works with his lawyer,

1204
00:53:22,719 --> 00:53:24,359
Speaker 2: John Middleton to come up with a plan to get

1205
00:53:24,400 --> 00:53:26,840
Speaker 2: Marked out, and as Middleton explained, quote we have a

1206
00:53:26,880 --> 00:53:29,640
Speaker 2: detailed plan. It includes job offers, health insurance, a lot

1207
00:53:29,680 --> 00:53:31,880
Speaker 2: of things. Right, it's a whole range of stuff. And

1208
00:53:31,880 --> 00:53:33,919
Speaker 2: of course once Mark is free, he is quote gonna

1209
00:53:33,960 --> 00:53:34,760
Speaker 2: have to behave himself.

1210
00:53:34,960 --> 00:53:35,840
Speaker 3: You know this is the truth.

1211
00:53:35,920 --> 00:53:38,600
Speaker 2: So now, ironically their efforts are soon aided by the

1212
00:53:38,640 --> 00:53:42,080
Speaker 2: same doctor who first put him away. Doctor Robert Berland

1213
00:53:42,239 --> 00:53:44,720
Speaker 2: was that fifth doctor who said Mark Defriese was competent

1214
00:53:44,719 --> 00:53:46,719
Speaker 2: to stand trial way back in the day. Yeah, But

1215
00:53:46,800 --> 00:53:49,440
Speaker 2: over time he comes to regret what he'd done and

1216
00:53:49,480 --> 00:53:52,759
Speaker 2: he recants his prior testimony really starts to work to

1217
00:53:52,800 --> 00:53:55,879
Speaker 2: help free Mark. Well, the years later, he was.

1218
00:53:55,840 --> 00:53:58,759
Speaker 3: Probably from that moment forward just cursed and bad things

1219
00:53:58,840 --> 00:54:02,480
Speaker 3: kept happening. When did this bad luck streak start up?

1220
00:54:02,920 --> 00:54:04,960
Speaker 2: Only if it worked like that, But he had more

1221
00:54:05,000 --> 00:54:06,839
Speaker 2: of a like a real you know, come to Jesus,

1222
00:54:06,880 --> 00:54:08,759
Speaker 2: as they say in the South. In an interview in

1223
00:54:08,760 --> 00:54:11,760
Speaker 2: the documentary, we see Mark meet with doctor Berlin in prison,

1224
00:54:11,840 --> 00:54:14,160
Speaker 2: like early on when there he's first coming to him,

1225
00:54:14,160 --> 00:54:15,920
Speaker 2: going I'd like to help get you free. And after

1226
00:54:16,000 --> 00:54:18,040
Speaker 2: they're done talking in this like you know, however much

1227
00:54:18,120 --> 00:54:21,719
Speaker 2: time they were allotted, Mark says sarcastically, well, been nice

1228
00:54:21,719 --> 00:54:24,680
Speaker 2: to see you again, Doctor Berlin, to which doctor Berlin

1229
00:54:24,760 --> 00:54:27,560
Speaker 2: tells Mark, you're a gentleman to even say that, And

1230
00:54:27,600 --> 00:54:29,880
Speaker 2: then Mark says, what was it you said? I was

1231
00:54:29,880 --> 00:54:34,520
Speaker 2: a malingering idiot? And doctor Berlin confesses something meaningful. He says, well,

1232
00:54:34,600 --> 00:54:36,319
Speaker 2: what can I say? There are things that you do

1233
00:54:36,440 --> 00:54:38,840
Speaker 2: and say when you were young that you then decide

1234
00:54:38,880 --> 00:54:42,760
Speaker 2: later we're wrong. So then Mark asked the big, big question,

1235
00:54:43,080 --> 00:54:45,160
Speaker 2: but where's the fairness in all this crap? I mean,

1236
00:54:45,200 --> 00:54:46,960
Speaker 2: for real, I went to prison when I was what

1237
00:54:47,120 --> 00:54:50,120
Speaker 2: twenty for doing a bunch of stupid I ain't never

1238
00:54:50,200 --> 00:54:52,960
Speaker 2: hurt nobody, and here I am still. I've done thirty

1239
00:54:53,040 --> 00:54:55,319
Speaker 2: years and I got thirty more to go. Why ain't

1240
00:54:55,360 --> 00:54:58,440
Speaker 2: that nice? Now? Thanks to doctor Berlin's interviews, in his

1241
00:54:58,480 --> 00:55:00,640
Speaker 2: new assessment of Mark's mental health, he does all these

1242
00:55:00,800 --> 00:55:02,759
Speaker 2: inventories of his mental health so he can prove it

1243
00:55:02,800 --> 00:55:07,240
Speaker 2: statistically that he's psychotic. He's suffering from various mental ailments

1244
00:55:07,600 --> 00:55:10,120
Speaker 2: along with his lawyer John Middleton and his wife Bonnie.

1245
00:55:10,120 --> 00:55:12,960
Speaker 2: This team up secures Mark a new parole hearing after

1246
00:55:13,360 --> 00:55:15,720
Speaker 2: his twenty nine years behind bars. Is when it occurs.

1247
00:55:16,080 --> 00:55:18,760
Speaker 2: In twenty fourteen, his case gets heard before the Florida

1248
00:55:18,760 --> 00:55:22,480
Speaker 2: Commission on Offender Review aka the Parole Board. His family

1249
00:55:22,520 --> 00:55:24,080
Speaker 2: is also there to support him and a hearing in

1250
00:55:24,120 --> 00:55:28,040
Speaker 2: November twenty fourteen, his stepsister Barbie testifies that quote, I

1251
00:55:28,120 --> 00:55:30,640
Speaker 2: truly believe it's an autistic thing, but they didn't know

1252
00:55:30,719 --> 00:55:33,640
Speaker 2: that at the time. It was a heartache after heartache,

1253
00:55:33,880 --> 00:55:35,960
Speaker 2: So now they're already to have new language to describe

1254
00:55:36,200 --> 00:55:39,600
Speaker 2: what's going on inside of him. Meanwhile, doctor Berlin suggests

1255
00:55:39,600 --> 00:55:43,279
Speaker 2: that Mark's antisocial and compulsive and sometimes psychotic behavior might

1256
00:55:43,320 --> 00:55:46,319
Speaker 2: actually be the result of shaken baby syndrome, going back

1257
00:55:46,400 --> 00:55:48,520
Speaker 2: to his mother's effect on him as a child. In

1258
00:55:49,040 --> 00:55:51,560
Speaker 2: after a few hearings of Florida Parole Board votes to

1259
00:55:51,600 --> 00:55:54,400
Speaker 2: reduce his parole date from twenty eighty five to twenty

1260
00:55:54,440 --> 00:55:57,320
Speaker 2: fifteen and to consider early release, that is, if he

1261
00:55:57,360 --> 00:56:00,000
Speaker 2: can maintain good behavior for a review period of two years.

1262
00:56:00,920 --> 00:56:03,719
Speaker 2: Then comes to this documentary that I keep quoting from

1263
00:56:03,760 --> 00:56:05,840
Speaker 2: the mind of Mark Defriest and the efforts of the

1264
00:56:05,880 --> 00:56:09,480
Speaker 2: filmmaker Gabriel London. The Florida Parole Board begins to change

1265
00:56:09,520 --> 00:56:12,680
Speaker 2: its tone, as the Associated Press reported in twenty sixteen,

1266
00:56:12,680 --> 00:56:15,000
Speaker 2: because he's not released even though they reduce his date,

1267
00:56:15,000 --> 00:56:18,440
Speaker 2: they then bump it back out into a whole machination

1268
00:56:18,520 --> 00:56:20,960
Speaker 2: of like, oh one prison parole board. A person said this,

1269
00:56:21,040 --> 00:56:23,200
Speaker 2: another votes against it, So then they don't. They give

1270
00:56:23,239 --> 00:56:25,080
Speaker 2: him two years review and they give him another year.

1271
00:56:25,120 --> 00:56:28,040
Speaker 2: So in twenty sixteen, the Florida Commission on Offender Review

1272
00:56:28,120 --> 00:56:31,840
Speaker 2: chairwoman at the time, Melinda Kohnrod, says of Mark's case, quote,

1273
00:56:32,080 --> 00:56:34,520
Speaker 2: He's not a murderer, he's not a rapist, he doesn't

1274
00:56:34,560 --> 00:56:36,880
Speaker 2: have a history of violence. He's in the worst situation

1275
00:56:37,000 --> 00:56:39,120
Speaker 2: that he has been in for a long time. The

1276
00:56:39,200 --> 00:56:42,680
Speaker 2: system has failed him, and we put him there. Yeah,

1277
00:56:42,719 --> 00:56:46,480
Speaker 2: finally freedom comes from Mark defriest. In twenty sixteen, Florida

1278
00:56:46,520 --> 00:56:49,440
Speaker 2: sends Mark to California to be enrolled in a transition

1279
00:56:49,560 --> 00:56:52,560
Speaker 2: program they have there, and then in February of twenty nineteen,

1280
00:56:52,600 --> 00:56:55,160
Speaker 2: he's granted full parole and is released to a halfway

1281
00:56:55,160 --> 00:56:57,399
Speaker 2: house close to where his wife, Bonnie lives and now

1282
00:56:57,400 --> 00:56:59,680
Speaker 2: an Oregon Okay, I wish I could say this is

1283
00:56:59,719 --> 00:57:01,839
Speaker 2: where the story ends on a happy note. He's freed

1284
00:57:01,880 --> 00:57:04,240
Speaker 2: and they get to be together. There is not exactly

1285
00:57:04,320 --> 00:57:06,880
Speaker 2: happy ending, because sadly, his freedom is short lived. In

1286
00:57:06,960 --> 00:57:09,640
Speaker 2: just ten days time, he's arrested for testing positive for

1287
00:57:09,760 --> 00:57:12,799
Speaker 2: meth amphetamine at the facility, the Halfway House, and he's

1288
00:57:12,840 --> 00:57:15,759
Speaker 2: sent back to a prison mental health facility, and he

1289
00:57:15,800 --> 00:57:18,200
Speaker 2: has since been locked up and has remained there ever

1290
00:57:18,240 --> 00:57:22,080
Speaker 2: since as well. In twenty twenty, Bonnie de Friest passed

1291
00:57:22,080 --> 00:57:24,840
Speaker 2: away at the age of ninety, so she's passed as

1292
00:57:24,840 --> 00:57:27,200
Speaker 2: for Mark Defriest. At the moment, best as I can find,

1293
00:57:27,440 --> 00:57:30,200
Speaker 2: he's currently in a Washington, d C. Prison mental health

1294
00:57:30,200 --> 00:57:33,880
Speaker 2: facility in DC Yes District of Columbia, but his status

1295
00:57:33,960 --> 00:57:36,760
Speaker 2: was denoted as quote in transit, so I don't know

1296
00:57:36,800 --> 00:57:39,440
Speaker 2: where he is exactly. He's now sixty four years old

1297
00:57:39,560 --> 00:57:41,280
Speaker 2: or sixty five years old, either one. I don't know

1298
00:57:41,280 --> 00:57:43,840
Speaker 2: when his birthday is, and has been inside for forty three,

1299
00:57:43,840 --> 00:57:46,240
Speaker 2: if not forty four years. It is a damn shame

1300
00:57:46,280 --> 00:57:48,160
Speaker 2: the Florida penal system has treated him the way they

1301
00:57:48,160 --> 00:57:50,680
Speaker 2: have and now he's just bumping around This sure ain't

1302
00:57:50,760 --> 00:57:53,320
Speaker 2: just as as far as anybody not in my book. Yeah, now,

1303
00:57:53,400 --> 00:57:54,760
Speaker 2: I know I ended on a bit of a bummer,

1304
00:57:54,760 --> 00:57:56,400
Speaker 2: but without being too tried, I got to ask you,

1305
00:57:56,600 --> 00:57:58,400
Speaker 2: what's a ridiculous takeaway here?

1306
00:57:58,520 --> 00:58:01,360
Speaker 3: Well, I've talked about it a million in times, impulse

1307
00:58:01,400 --> 00:58:05,520
Speaker 3: control being a core issue in the inmate population. But

1308
00:58:05,600 --> 00:58:08,200
Speaker 3: I just struck with the fact that this guy is

1309
00:58:08,240 --> 00:58:12,800
Speaker 3: so smart and so creative, and how had he had

1310
00:58:12,840 --> 00:58:18,320
Speaker 3: the correct atmosphere growing up and resources and been encouraged,

1311
00:58:18,400 --> 00:58:22,200
Speaker 3: like he could be like solving some sort of scientific

1312
00:58:22,480 --> 00:58:26,560
Speaker 3: issue that we have, ye you know, discovering a medicine

1313
00:58:26,680 --> 00:58:30,480
Speaker 3: or fixing some sort of you know, technology, and instead,

1314
00:58:30,800 --> 00:58:32,960
Speaker 3: you know, he had this really rough home life. You're saying,

1315
00:58:33,000 --> 00:58:36,080
Speaker 3: like possible shaken baby syndrome, so he could have some

1316
00:58:36,120 --> 00:58:39,920
Speaker 3: sort of you know, damage coming in and you know,

1317
00:58:39,960 --> 00:58:43,360
Speaker 3: but here you have people who you know, every different,

1318
00:58:43,440 --> 00:58:47,120
Speaker 3: Every person is different, and whatever kind of issue you

1319
00:58:47,200 --> 00:58:51,760
Speaker 3: have coming with you, mental, physical, whatever, you bring something

1320
00:58:51,800 --> 00:58:54,240
Speaker 3: to the party, right, And so it's not a negative.

1321
00:58:54,280 --> 00:58:56,440
Speaker 3: It's like I just come at something a little bit different.

1322
00:58:56,720 --> 00:58:59,040
Speaker 3: So he comes at this a little bit different, and

1323
00:58:59,120 --> 00:59:03,520
Speaker 3: he could have been making incredible positive things. But you know,

1324
00:59:03,760 --> 00:59:06,280
Speaker 3: like you're saying, but for the grace of God. This

1325
00:59:06,400 --> 00:59:08,840
Speaker 3: is the opposite. Like, you see, what could have been

1326
00:59:09,000 --> 00:59:12,240
Speaker 3: is so painful. It's so painful to think about the

1327
00:59:12,280 --> 00:59:15,680
Speaker 3: wonderful things he could be giving to society. Instead, we

1328
00:59:15,840 --> 00:59:18,680
Speaker 3: just continue to punish, and instead of having some moment

1329
00:59:18,920 --> 00:59:22,400
Speaker 3: where his behavior is caught and recognized and say all right,

1330
00:59:22,440 --> 00:59:24,040
Speaker 3: let's work with you to figure out how we can

1331
00:59:24,120 --> 00:59:27,200
Speaker 3: turn this positive because you're obviously a genius. Yes, But

1332
00:59:27,360 --> 00:59:31,360
Speaker 3: instead we're so hell bent on dehumanizing and so hell

1333
00:59:31,440 --> 00:59:35,960
Speaker 3: bent on punishing with no benefit to society. Let's say

1334
00:59:36,000 --> 00:59:38,120
Speaker 3: he does get out, all right, Now, what what's he

1335
00:59:38,200 --> 00:59:40,040
Speaker 3: going to do? Now he's sixty.

1336
00:59:39,800 --> 00:59:41,960
Speaker 2: Four years old? He does nothing. I mean, he cannot

1337
00:59:42,000 --> 00:59:44,760
Speaker 2: be his productive years. Not that I'm saying the person

1338
00:59:44,760 --> 00:59:46,480
Speaker 2: who's sixty four can't be productive, but he had many

1339
00:59:46,560 --> 00:59:48,160
Speaker 2: years he could have been productive. And at this point

1340
00:59:48,280 --> 00:59:49,520
Speaker 2: he's so broken by prison.

1341
00:59:49,680 --> 00:59:53,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, no trade, no skill, no education, no experience. He's broken.

1342
00:59:53,360 --> 00:59:56,800
Speaker 3: You look at his father, the ramifications of him being broken.

1343
00:59:56,960 --> 00:59:59,840
Speaker 3: Now he's broken. And it's like, we aren't doing any

1344
01:00:00,320 --> 01:00:04,200
Speaker 3: to benefit society with the system that we have. Yes,

1345
01:00:04,640 --> 01:00:07,400
Speaker 3: you know, and yes people need to you know pay

1346
01:00:07,440 --> 01:00:09,960
Speaker 3: for what they do, sure in one way or another.

1347
01:00:10,040 --> 01:00:12,880
Speaker 2: But come yes, and my ridiculous take away thank you

1348
01:00:12,920 --> 01:00:16,160
Speaker 2: for asking about ahead, is like this is I mean,

1349
01:00:16,200 --> 01:00:18,920
Speaker 2: ultimately it's the prison that's ridiculous. Like their whole idea

1350
01:00:18,960 --> 01:00:21,000
Speaker 2: is like, oh, there's a lot of points in the

1351
01:00:21,040 --> 01:00:22,600
Speaker 2: vide where people are talking about like you know, from

1352
01:00:22,640 --> 01:00:25,960
Speaker 2: the prison, about we've got our woodshop here. It's to

1353
01:00:26,000 --> 01:00:29,000
Speaker 2: help teach them productive skills and they can become you know,

1354
01:00:29,080 --> 01:00:31,080
Speaker 2: productive members of society. And when they're let out, so

1355
01:00:31,080 --> 01:00:33,720
Speaker 2: there's always this talk about reform and how we're going

1356
01:00:33,800 --> 01:00:36,520
Speaker 2: to help these inmates, but they don't exceed the person,

1357
01:00:36,640 --> 01:00:38,440
Speaker 2: so they're treating them like numbers and we're going to

1358
01:00:38,480 --> 01:00:41,560
Speaker 2: push these widgets like they're making things as opposed to

1359
01:00:42,040 --> 01:00:44,760
Speaker 2: shaping and remaking and refixing and doing what they can

1360
01:00:44,840 --> 01:00:48,080
Speaker 2: to assess what's going on individually and then provide them

1361
01:00:48,440 --> 01:00:51,600
Speaker 2: not just like you know, mental health services and physical services,

1362
01:00:51,600 --> 01:00:54,240
Speaker 2: but give them an avenue for growth, give them a

1363
01:00:54,360 --> 01:00:55,320
Speaker 2: place to be too.

1364
01:00:55,400 --> 01:00:57,840
Speaker 3: Is it so slow moving that the trays that they're

1365
01:00:57,920 --> 01:01:00,919
Speaker 3: learning have already been passed by they're useless, So they're

1366
01:01:01,280 --> 01:01:04,280
Speaker 3: learning things that no one needs anymore. They're not learning

1367
01:01:04,360 --> 01:01:04,600
Speaker 3: up to.

1368
01:01:04,680 --> 01:01:07,280
Speaker 2: Date and usually used for prison labor that is essentially

1369
01:01:07,320 --> 01:01:08,120
Speaker 2: for some corporation.

1370
01:01:08,200 --> 01:01:09,960
Speaker 3: Well that's something too, is that in the in the

1371
01:01:10,000 --> 01:01:12,080
Speaker 3: state prison where I taught, they were doing some sort

1372
01:01:12,120 --> 01:01:14,240
Speaker 3: of airplane parts and they had a factory thing in

1373
01:01:14,280 --> 01:01:17,840
Speaker 3: the corner. They're not going to have the skills. The

1374
01:01:17,880 --> 01:01:20,920
Speaker 3: skills that they have there are not going to translate outside,

1375
01:01:21,320 --> 01:01:25,560
Speaker 3: and so it's really only this very basic machine work

1376
01:01:25,680 --> 01:01:28,560
Speaker 3: that again it's such old machinery that you can't get

1377
01:01:28,640 --> 01:01:29,480
Speaker 3: hired at corporate.

1378
01:01:29,480 --> 01:01:30,920
Speaker 2: It's not like a real tool to die where you're

1379
01:01:30,920 --> 01:01:32,760
Speaker 2: going to go all not at all.

1380
01:01:32,840 --> 01:01:35,400
Speaker 3: And so you know, we you know, with prison education

1381
01:01:35,520 --> 01:01:37,960
Speaker 3: programs you're at least giving people like a degree to

1382
01:01:38,000 --> 01:01:40,640
Speaker 3: walk out with sure, but even then it's like what

1383
01:01:40,680 --> 01:01:41,280
Speaker 3: are you going to do with that?

1384
01:01:41,640 --> 01:01:44,000
Speaker 2: Or the firefighters in California where then they cannot then

1385
01:01:44,040 --> 01:01:46,080
Speaker 2: become firefighters once they're outside of the system.

1386
01:01:46,120 --> 01:01:47,840
Speaker 3: I know that they're trying to change that, trying to

1387
01:01:48,000 --> 01:01:51,760
Speaker 3: but weird in desperate need of firefighters through the Califire program,

1388
01:01:51,840 --> 01:01:54,800
Speaker 3: and you've got some of the most experienced and courageous,

1389
01:01:54,800 --> 01:01:58,200
Speaker 3: ageous people men and women doing this, and then they

1390
01:01:58,240 --> 01:01:59,840
Speaker 3: can't get hired when they get out.

1391
01:02:00,560 --> 01:02:04,440
Speaker 2: That's criminal totally, and also the just ridiculous and it's criminal,

1392
01:02:04,440 --> 01:02:06,840
Speaker 2: and the fact that it's like they still want to

1393
01:02:06,840 --> 01:02:08,640
Speaker 2: break this guy because he won't bend to their will.

1394
01:02:08,680 --> 01:02:10,280
Speaker 2: You see what the real point of the prison is.

1395
01:02:10,320 --> 01:02:14,680
Speaker 2: It's not about justice. You in the mood for talkback

1396
01:02:14,720 --> 01:02:26,720
Speaker 2: to I thank goodness, Oh my god, super I love Get.

1397
01:02:29,960 --> 01:02:32,880
Speaker 4: Ridiculous Crime With's Olivia. I'm also listening to your money

1398
01:02:32,960 --> 01:02:37,280
Speaker 4: heist episode and I almost got scammed. I got a

1399
01:02:37,280 --> 01:02:39,160
Speaker 4: phone call from someone that was trying to hack my

1400
01:02:39,160 --> 01:02:43,480
Speaker 4: bank account saying that I did get scammed and anyways,

1401
01:02:43,760 --> 01:02:45,680
Speaker 4: and it was just funny that the next episode is

1402
01:02:45,720 --> 01:02:49,560
Speaker 4: about rods and scams. I love your Guys podcast. I

1403
01:02:49,600 --> 01:02:52,760
Speaker 4: love you guys, and I love the Doggy and terranspect.

1404
01:02:53,600 --> 01:02:55,640
Speaker 4: Thank you so much for all the laps and hopefully

1405
01:02:55,720 --> 01:02:56,480
Speaker 4: not getting scammed.

1406
01:02:58,400 --> 01:02:59,560
Speaker 3: That was a close one.

1407
01:02:59,680 --> 01:03:01,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, we're glad we can help with your criminal education.

1408
01:03:02,080 --> 01:03:04,720
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I'm glad that you didn't get to get

1409
01:03:04,920 --> 01:03:05,880
Speaker 3: taken totally.

1410
01:03:05,880 --> 01:03:08,280
Speaker 2: And you can probably hear the Doggy interns in this episode,

1411
01:03:08,320 --> 01:03:10,320
Speaker 2: so know that they are also glad to be here for.

1412
01:03:10,240 --> 01:03:12,600
Speaker 3: You, glad to be here well.

1413
01:03:12,600 --> 01:03:14,800
Speaker 2: As always, you can find us online at Ridiculous Crime

1414
01:03:14,920 --> 01:03:18,840
Speaker 2: on Instagram and Blue Sky and occasionally Twitter who knows

1415
01:03:19,120 --> 01:03:21,360
Speaker 2: or whatever x whatever it's called. Now. We also have

1416
01:03:21,480 --> 01:03:24,560
Speaker 2: the account ridiculous Crime Pod on YouTube. Please go check

1417
01:03:24,600 --> 01:03:26,320
Speaker 2: it out. Tell it to your friends or people who

1418
01:03:26,360 --> 01:03:28,400
Speaker 2: like to watch videos. Even though it's mostly just an

1419
01:03:28,400 --> 01:03:30,760
Speaker 2: animation of us talking, but it's still a video. What

1420
01:03:30,920 --> 01:03:33,880
Speaker 2: have you. We also have our website, ridiculous Crime dot com.

1421
01:03:34,160 --> 01:03:37,000
Speaker 2: We were the recent winner of the LP of the

1422
01:03:37,120 --> 01:03:40,000
Speaker 2: Year for Finland. We were very excited. We didn't even

1423
01:03:40,040 --> 01:03:43,520
Speaker 2: know that websites could count as LPs, So very exciting. Yeah.

1424
01:03:43,640 --> 01:03:45,680
Speaker 2: LP of the Year's Long Play Record.

1425
01:03:46,040 --> 01:03:46,600
Speaker 3: So there you know.

1426
01:03:46,840 --> 01:03:50,280
Speaker 2: And email if you like at ridiculous Crime at gmail

1427
01:03:50,400 --> 01:03:53,080
Speaker 2: dot com. We always look forward to your emails. Thanks

1428
01:03:53,120 --> 01:04:01,120
Speaker 2: for listening and we will catch you next crime. Ridiculous

1429
01:04:01,160 --> 01:04:04,560
Speaker 2: Crime is hosted by Elizabeth Dutton and Zaren Burnett, produce

1430
01:04:04,600 --> 01:04:07,680
Speaker 2: and edited by the inventor of the armpitman, Dave Cousten,

1431
01:04:07,880 --> 01:04:11,000
Speaker 2: and starring Anaalice Rucker as Judith. Research is by our

1432
01:04:11,080 --> 01:04:13,800
Speaker 2: prison lawyer Marissa Brown. Our theme song is by The

1433
01:04:13,840 --> 01:04:17,200
Speaker 2: Blues Brothers Rhythm and Blues Review cover band Thomas Lee

1434
01:04:17,240 --> 01:04:20,640
Speaker 2: and Travis Dutton. The host wardrobe provided by Bonny five hundred.

1435
01:04:20,840 --> 01:04:24,720
Speaker 2: Guest hair and makeup by Sparkleshop and mister Andre. Executive

1436
01:04:24,720 --> 01:04:27,240
Speaker 2: producers are the cats who run this cell block, Ben

1437
01:04:27,360 --> 01:04:36,200
Speaker 2: Hard Times Bowlin and Noel. What You're looking at? Brown Gee?

1438
01:04:37,640 --> 01:04:39,760
Speaker 3: Why say it one more time?

1439
01:04:39,960 --> 01:04:45,200
Speaker 1: Geek Crime Ridiculous Crime is a production of iHeartRadio four

1440
01:04:45,200 --> 01:04:49,000
Speaker 1: more podcasts. My Heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

1441
01:04:49,080 --> 01:04:50,920
Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.