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Speaker 1: Hi, everyone, I'm Katie Current and this is next question.

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Speaker 1: On today's episode, women are in crisis, and I think

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Speaker 1: we realize that no one is coming to save us.

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Speaker 1: Reshma Sujani on the state of women's progress and the

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Speaker 1: impact the pandemic has had on our careers, mental health,

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Speaker 1: and lives. After decades of advancement in the workplace, more

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Speaker 1: women dropped out of the labor force over the past

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Speaker 1: two years than ever before. But that's why the former

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Speaker 1: Girls Who Code CEO says there's no time like the

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Speaker 1: present for systemic change. We were told that if we

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Speaker 1: leaned in hard enough, if we girl bossed our way,

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Speaker 1: there was an express train to the top. We have

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Speaker 1: just set women up to fail. And so if you

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Speaker 1: believe like never ways to go to crisis, like there's

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Speaker 1: never then been a moment for us to redesign the workplace,

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Speaker 1: then there is right now. And Rushma has a plan,

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Speaker 1: which she lays out in her new book called Pay Up.

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Speaker 1: The Future of Women and Work and Why It's different

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Speaker 1: than you think. We'll get to all of that and

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Speaker 1: more in this conversation, but first let's talk about you, Rushma,

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Speaker 1: because I learned some things about you that I didn't

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Speaker 1: quite realize. Tell us about your parents and about your

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Speaker 1: journey as a kid and going to law school. Just

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Speaker 1: give me the Rushma story and for five seconds, Okay,

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Speaker 1: let me make it quick. My parents came here as refugees.

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Speaker 1: They were two of a thousand engineers who got to

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Speaker 1: come here because they were kicked out by Idi aman Um.

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Speaker 1: My father worked as a machinist and a plant My

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Speaker 1: mother sold cosmetics, and I my dad would read to

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Speaker 1: me about these incredible people like Dr King and Mahama Gandhi,

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Speaker 1: and so from the time I was little, I wanted

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Speaker 1: to change the world, like as sappy as it sounds, Katie,

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Speaker 1: like I wanted to give back to this country that

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Speaker 1: saved my parents life. I graduated three, was knowledge to

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Speaker 1: loan bet did what every good Indian girl thinks she

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Speaker 1: should do, was listen to my parents and got that

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Speaker 1: safe job, you know, so I could get married and

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Speaker 1: have that middle class life. And I was miserable the

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Speaker 1: whole way because I just always wanted to run for

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Speaker 1: office and be a public servant. I decided to try

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Speaker 1: that and I ran for Congress. I basically did what

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Speaker 1: AOC did except ten years earlier. And she lost. I

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Speaker 1: mean I should say I lost, she won, um, But

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Speaker 1: it was the best experience of my life because I

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Speaker 1: failed for the very first time. And when you run

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Speaker 1: for office like you can't I that like everybody knows

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Speaker 1: when you lost, and I was broke, I was humiliated.

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Speaker 1: I had piste off everybody in the democratic establishment. But

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Speaker 1: I was free and that feeling of being like wow,

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Speaker 1: like what are the other things I told myself I

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Speaker 1: couldn't do, and let me go do them and let

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Speaker 1: me fail at them too, and it just it started

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Speaker 1: this life of just brave, not perfect, I say, starting

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Speaker 1: girls who code when I didn't code, and I didn't

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Speaker 1: bother to learn, you know, building a movement to teach,

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Speaker 1: you know, to talk about moms and say they should

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Speaker 1: get paid. Though I'm not an economist, and so I

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Speaker 1: think it's just like it freed me to say what

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Speaker 1: I want to say, not care what other people think,

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Speaker 1: and to be a warrior. Was that scary though, rush my,

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Speaker 1: I mean you you say it like no big whoop.

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Speaker 1: I failed and I was okay with it and it

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Speaker 1: was liberating at the same time. It must have been

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Speaker 1: as you said, it's humiliating to fail, especially on a

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Speaker 1: public stage and I something I can relate to. It

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Speaker 1: was scary well also because I was, you know, as

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Speaker 1: the first South Asian woman to run for office. You know,

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Speaker 1: my parents had taught me to like not call attention

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Speaker 1: to yourself, right not, you know, like basically drawn the lines.

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Speaker 1: And here I was going out there. I had no

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Speaker 1: idea what I was doing. You know, I didn't have

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Speaker 1: friends and fancy places. I didn't know how to hire

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Speaker 1: a campaign manager. I'd never asked anybody for a check before,

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Speaker 1: and so all of it was like the first time.

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Speaker 1: I remember even going into senior centers and like having

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Speaker 1: to pronounce my name and you know, and just knowing

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Speaker 1: what to say. And I didn't know what I was doing.

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Speaker 1: And I remember my first you were gonna appreciate this,

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Speaker 1: My first television interview ever was with Chris Matthews and

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Speaker 1: he was so mean to me. I didn't even know

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Speaker 1: like where to look in the screen. I was looking

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Speaker 1: in the wrong place. I mean, it was right, it

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Speaker 1: was about it. I'm still still I cannot watch that interview.

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Speaker 1: Uh so it was it was high stakes, high fear,

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Speaker 1: but high excitement. And I think when you do something

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Speaker 1: like that at age thirty, three, and you're kind of like, well, okay,

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Speaker 1: I can do anything. And even the public failure was

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Speaker 1: so interesting because I mean, I'm not it hurt, I cried.

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Speaker 1: I you drank Margarita's for like a month, being like

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Speaker 1: what happened? What happened? What happened when I do wrong?

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Speaker 1: And then I moved on And and that was the

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Speaker 1: their lesson about failure. Like you, I'm sure you can

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Speaker 1: appreciate this, right. You can't keep thinking about it and

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Speaker 1: reliving it. You gotta let it go. And I learned

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Speaker 1: that lesson. You know, at a young age. Girls Who

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Speaker 1: Code was a phenomenal success that you launched. And you

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Speaker 1: just said I didn't know how to code. I hadn't

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Speaker 1: you know, I didn't really you weren't familiar with the

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Speaker 1: tech world. Just take us back to why you wanted

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Speaker 1: to create Girls Who Code. Well, when I was running

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Speaker 1: for office, I would go into New York City schools

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Speaker 1: and I would go into computer science classes and I

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Speaker 1: would see like lines and lines of boys trying to

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Speaker 1: be the next step jobs or Mark Zuckerberg. And I

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Speaker 1: was like Gates for Bill Gates, and like, you know,

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Speaker 1: I knew that the valley was a boys club, But

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Speaker 1: I didn't know that that club started in high school.

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Speaker 1: And then I started learning about like what you make

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Speaker 1: as a software programmer A hundred and twenty thousand dollars

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Speaker 1: what like, and as as I've had a job since

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Speaker 1: I was twelve, like basking Robbins, walking dogs, like retail,

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Speaker 1: and so the idea that you could make that much

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Speaker 1: money and maybe even like make a difference, I was like,

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Speaker 1: why does every girl I know, like, you know, we

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Speaker 1: know about this? And so I made it my mission

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Speaker 1: to kind of make that happen. So I really approached

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Speaker 1: the problem from an equity perspective and from a perspective

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Speaker 1: of also like, wow, what if if girls had this

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Speaker 1: arsenal of being able to code, Like what are the

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Speaker 1: problems that they could solve? Cancer, climate, COVID everything? And

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Speaker 1: that's what got me excited about it. And here's the

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Speaker 1: other thing, you know, Katie, I wasn't a coder, so

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Speaker 1: I didn't know any better. I wasn't in those computer

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Speaker 1: science classes with those microaggressions. I didn't go to a

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Speaker 1: Google interview and people get asked, you know what am

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Speaker 1: I doing afterwards? Like I didn't face the sexism and

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Speaker 1: the discrimination you know, and all of the barriers. So

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Speaker 1: I went at it like let's go do this, Like

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Speaker 1: let's go build this massive pipeline and like infiltrate every

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Speaker 1: single tech company. And it was a little bit of

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Speaker 1: that nativity right that I think enabled me to build

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Speaker 1: this massive movement when we come back. Why we can't

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Speaker 1: just girl boss our way to the top? Reschma's action

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Speaker 1: plan right after this, let's talk about pay up your

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Speaker 1: new book and this call for action. You believe there's

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Speaker 1: no time like the present to rethink policies, attitudes, behaviors, etcetera, etcetera.

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Speaker 1: Why Because I don't think it's ever been a worse

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Speaker 1: time to be a woman, you know, from reproductive rights

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Speaker 1: to you know, our job losses, to our mental health.

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Speaker 1: Like we women are in crisis, and I think we

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Speaker 1: realized that no one is coming to save us. You know,

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Speaker 1: at the start of the endemic, almost twelve million women

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Speaker 1: were pushed out of the labor force, and when the

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Speaker 1: job's report came out, men had joined the labor market

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Speaker 1: at twenty seven times the rate of women. You know,

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Speaker 1: one in three women are now thinking about changing their jobs.

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Speaker 1: You know, of women say that their mental health has

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Speaker 1: actually declined like, we are not okay, and this isn't

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Speaker 1: just a pandemic story. We've always been juggling too much.

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Speaker 1: And so if you believe like never wats to go

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Speaker 1: a crisis, like there's never then been a moment for

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Speaker 1: us to redesign the workplace, then there is right now.

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Speaker 1: Tell me about the twelve million because I keep hearing

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Speaker 1: three point five million women have left the workforce. Can

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Speaker 1: you help me understand the difference and those numbers. So

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Speaker 1: at the beginning of the pandemic, you know, from March

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Speaker 1: of you saw almost twelve million women leave, and then

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Speaker 1: women would come back and then you know, basically I

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Speaker 1: would say a couple of you know, at the beginning

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Speaker 1: of the fall, we were still missing three million women,

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Speaker 1: and I think the latest numbers say we're missing one

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Speaker 1: point one million. But here's the thing, Katie. The women

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Speaker 1: that have not come back our moms. So a lot

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Speaker 1: of childless women are re entering, but parents are not.

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Speaker 1: And so part of what you know, I was just

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Speaker 1: talking to um the Secretary of Commerces team right now

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Speaker 1: and this I was saying, I'm like, we need a

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Speaker 1: women's jobs are because there's so many numbers being thrown about,

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Speaker 1: But we need to exactly understand who's re entering and

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Speaker 1: if they're not re entering, what do they need? Is

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Speaker 1: it because of childcare? Is it because their job has

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Speaker 1: been automated, you know? Is it because their schools are

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Speaker 1: shut down or their kids are in crisis? Are they

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Speaker 1: down shifting? You know? But the the interesting thing is

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Speaker 1: is we know that more women are leaving, you know,

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Speaker 1: even in the great more women are quitting, and we

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Speaker 1: know some of the reasons why they're quitting. And you

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Speaker 1: then the thing that keeps coming up is childcare. And

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Speaker 1: you say, this problem predates the pandemics. So what is

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Speaker 1: the root of it? Why does it suck to be

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Speaker 1: a working mom in America? Well? I think part of

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Speaker 1: it is because we've been sold what I call the

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Speaker 1: big Lie. You know, we were we were told that

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Speaker 1: if we leaned in hard enough, if we girl bossed

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Speaker 1: our way, you know, there was an express train to

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Speaker 1: the top. And you understand this as a mother, we

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Speaker 1: have never been able to balance being the type of

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Speaker 1: mom we wanted to be with the type of worker

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Speaker 1: that we are expected to be. And so we have

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Speaker 1: just set women up to fail. And if you even

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Speaker 1: look at historically, you know, from Rosie the riverter right

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Speaker 1: to the Girl Boss today, it's like we were always

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Speaker 1: expected to hide our motherhood and to do it all,

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Speaker 1: and to you know, basically have it all was just

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Speaker 1: a euphanism for doing it all. And so I think

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Speaker 1: we need to expose the big lie and again redesign

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Speaker 1: workplaces so they actually are, you know, essentially are the

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Speaker 1: reality of how we live and work as moms. The

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Speaker 1: US has the artist drop and marital happiness after kids

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Speaker 1: and the world. Can you unpack that for us? Rushima,

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Speaker 1: and you talk very honestly about your own situation and

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Speaker 1: the frustrations you experienced. Steven, though you have a really

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Speaker 1: good marriage. Yeah, I mean I was dying to have kids.

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Speaker 1: I had more rounds of I v F than I

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Speaker 1: could actually count. All I wanted to be was a mom.

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Speaker 1: And again I think because I bought into the big line,

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Speaker 1: I didn't realize how hard it was going to be

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Speaker 1: being a mom and running girls who code. And I

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Speaker 1: think part of what what drove my husband and I

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Speaker 1: into couples counseling was, you know, I took all my

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Speaker 1: paid leave off and he didn't. And so those first

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Speaker 1: couple of months while I'm breastfeeding, I was the one

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Speaker 1: doing the laundry and doing the shopping and figuring out

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Speaker 1: whether the diaper bad was packed. Like my to do

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Speaker 1: list got bigger in his got smaller, and we did

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Speaker 1: become that household where I was doing eight six percent

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Speaker 1: of the domestic labor, all the while maintaining my big job.

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Speaker 1: And he had hits and so, and I didn't understand

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Speaker 1: it because I thought that, like everywhere I looked on

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Speaker 1: Instagram or social media, it seemed like you could have right,

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Speaker 1: these perfectly equitable marriages, And so why was it mine?

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Speaker 1: What was wrong with me? What had I not trained

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Speaker 1: my partner, you know, good enough? And then COVID made

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Speaker 1: it worse because I think what a lot of us

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Speaker 1: told ourselves, Well, they just don't know how much we do.

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Speaker 1: But now they saw us in between running the largest

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Speaker 1: women and girls organization in the world, doing the laundry,

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Speaker 1: doing the dishes, doing the homeschooling. Right, it wasn't that

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Speaker 1: they didn't know, but that it didn't matter because part

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Speaker 1: of the problem had always been that that work, that

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Speaker 1: domestic work, has never been valued, and so it hasn't

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Speaker 1: been prioritized for them. So they didn't do it. In fact,

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Speaker 1: Melinda Gates rights that him and do an average of

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Speaker 1: seven more years of work if you account for everything

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Speaker 1: they're doing inside the home in terms of taking care

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Speaker 1: of things that you just mentioned in terms of raising kids.

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Speaker 1: I mean, couldn't you just have a heart to heart

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Speaker 1: with your husband and say, listen, honey, this is not

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Speaker 1: working for me. And if you don't start, you know,

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Speaker 1: pulling your weight, this isn't happening. That's what I would

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Speaker 1: have done. Well, I think that's I think I did,

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Speaker 1: and I think we have. I mean, look, look, I'm

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Speaker 1: outing him in a book, right, So it's like, you know,

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Speaker 1: he's definitely his to do list past gotten bigger. But

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Speaker 1: the point is still, Katie, right, why is that our

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Speaker 1: that becomes our problem to fix? I got another job

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Speaker 1: and I gotta fix my partner. And part of what

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Speaker 1: in writing this book, you know, what I'm excited to

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Speaker 1: talk about, is that it is not just a personal problem.

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Speaker 1: Society has set it up that way for men not

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Speaker 1: to do the character taking. Think about the paid leave,

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Speaker 1: and we're gonna talk about solutions later. But so many companies,

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Speaker 1: including Apple, still don't have gender neutral pay lead policies.

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Speaker 1: So they corporations, companies are not setting up relationships to

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Speaker 1: start and have a fighting chance at gender equality. You know,

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Speaker 1: it's not until fairly recently that even if you think

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Speaker 1: about the images you see on television and in magazines, right,

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Speaker 1: it's like we praise then you know, when they are

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Speaker 1: strolling down a baby down the streeter changing a diaper

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Speaker 1: as if it's you know, exceptional. You know, I can

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Speaker 1: I can post that, you know, I walk my son

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Speaker 1: to school, and I'm not getting five hundred likes. So

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Speaker 1: so again, like we just have to really shift essentially

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Speaker 1: who does the character taking, whether that work is actually valued,

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Speaker 1: and have a really honest conversation if we're going to

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Speaker 1: get to gender quality. It's not about just getting a

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Speaker 1: sponsor or a mentor or even figuring out pay equity.

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Speaker 1: It's about how do you shift the balance of work

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Speaker 1: in every single household. I mean, even the debate that

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Speaker 1: we're having in Congress around the child tax credit is insane,

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Speaker 1: right that, like Joe Manchin says, well, you shouldn't get

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Speaker 1: a child tax unless you're working, As if the work

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Speaker 1: that I do every single day at home it's not work.

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Speaker 1: Explain that for us, for people who may not be

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Speaker 1: following the legislation, what the tax child credit would do,

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Speaker 1: and why it is problematic if it's only for working moms. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: So for a long time, we we in the United States,

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Speaker 1: you know, we have been against giving a child tax

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Speaker 1: credit to parents who are not in the workforce. And

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Speaker 1: in COVID President Biden changed that and said essentially, any

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Speaker 1: parent of a certain income you know what I mean,

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Speaker 1: gets uh, you know, thirty a month, right, you know,

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Speaker 1: if they have a child, and it is set to expire.

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Speaker 1: And there's a big debate in Congress about whether we

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Speaker 1: should extend it. And Senator Mansion has been against extending

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Speaker 1: it because he thinks that you should only get it

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Speaker 1: if you're a parent in the workplace. And so what

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Speaker 1: he's saying is that you should only get it if

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Speaker 1: you are a parent that is working, and that if

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Speaker 1: you're not working, you're not entitled to a benefit. And

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Speaker 1: why this is deeply problematic is the United I means,

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Speaker 1: it's a very it's not the typical perspective that you

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Speaker 1: see in other nations like the United Kingdom for example,

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Speaker 1: or you know, the Nordic countries, where in the UK

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Speaker 1: you got a parental income every month if you had

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Speaker 1: a kid, and so because it is very expensive to

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Speaker 1: be a parent. But in this country, we see deciding

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Speaker 1: to be a parent as a choice. It's your personal

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Speaker 1: problem that you have to solve. Not the government, not

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Speaker 1: your employer, not even your partner is obligated to help

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Speaker 1: or support you. And young women are looking at that

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Speaker 1: saying not me, I don't want to do it. There

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Speaker 1: are a lot of problems that are exacerbated Reshma by

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Speaker 1: that attitude. I mean where does that Where does that

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Speaker 1: leave us as a country? Yeah? I mean one it

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Speaker 1: leaves us of I think, never getting to gender quality

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Speaker 1: unless we start investing in in these types of policies,

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Speaker 1: whether it's the government or whether it's you know, um

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Speaker 1: companies like let's take childcare for example. It is very

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Speaker 1: clear by the data that the that the million women

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Speaker 1: that are not entering the workforce re entering or who

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Speaker 1: have downshifted, right because we're not talking about that either, um,

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Speaker 1: it's because childcare is not affordable. We still have half

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Speaker 1: of our daycare centers that are shut down. I think

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Speaker 1: they say childcare costs have gone up by you know,

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Speaker 1: for you know, during the pandemic, and so you know,

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Speaker 1: if we do not solve childcare, you'll never get women

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Speaker 1: to return to the workforce in the same place that

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Speaker 1: they have been historically in the past, which means we're

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Speaker 1: gonna lose out in the diversity, you know, and by

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Speaker 1: extension in you know, the innovation of our country and

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Speaker 1: the long term economics success of our nation is actually

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Speaker 1: going in to suffer. And so right now in government,

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Speaker 1: you know, President Biden have proposed that we have a

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Speaker 1: seven percent ceiling on the amount that you'll spend on

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Speaker 1: your childcare. You know, that bill is not being passed

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Speaker 1: in Congress right now, and so you have rising childcare costs,

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Speaker 1: no intervention by the government. And so one of the

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Speaker 1: things I argue in the book is that we've got

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Speaker 1: to start asking companies to start subsidizing childcare. You know,

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Speaker 1: right now less than companies subsidized childcare. But as we're

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Speaker 1: having a race to the bottom in terms of salaries

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Speaker 1: and we're in the middle of the talent war, one

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Speaker 1: of the things I think that companies should be considering

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Speaker 1: is starting to pay for childcare as a way to

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Speaker 1: retain and attract talent. Don't you think on the one hand,

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Speaker 1: the pandemic made things terrible. On the other we have

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Speaker 1: some additional forces that seem to be encouraging people to

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Speaker 1: make a change. We have work at home policies. It

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Speaker 1: seems like employers are having to be more flexible. As

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Speaker 1: you said, there's a worker shortage. Aren't all these things

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Speaker 1: going to push companies in the right direction? Reschma. I

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Speaker 1: mean it's interesting, like my books coming out at the

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Speaker 1: two year anniversary of the pandemic, and I have not

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Speaker 1: seen as many policy changes from companies as I would like.

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Speaker 1: You know, they're still offering like free museum tickets and

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Speaker 1: egg freezing, but they're not paying for my childcare. They're

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Speaker 1: not incentivizing men to take pay leave and tying it

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Speaker 1: to their compensation. There's still resisting flexibility and remote working.

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Speaker 1: So I do think that while one would think, right

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Speaker 1: if you were a CEO today, I mean certainly as

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Speaker 1: a CEO right, that this is the time to start

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Speaker 1: maybe redesigning and rethinking about how we've traditionally done things.

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Speaker 1: I think the knee jerk reaction is to go back

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Speaker 1: to where it was before, and part of that is

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Speaker 1: because I think that the folks who need the most

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Speaker 1: amount of redesign are working moms, and we are the

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Speaker 1: most tired you're having, uh you know, constituency group that

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Speaker 1: is exhausted, higher race of mental anxiety and depression, you know,

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Speaker 1: and and and at the same time, we're the ones

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Speaker 1: who need the change. And so this is also why,

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Speaker 1: which is very fascinating, Katie, that the that women are

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Speaker 1: quitting it at a much higher rates than men. So

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Speaker 1: I'd rather quit my job and say, hey, know what,

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Speaker 1: I need flexibility, you know what I mean, I need

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Speaker 1: support here or there, because we're so used to this

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Speaker 1: being told to us is our personal problem, that you

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Speaker 1: don't get to ask for support. That we're still breastfeeding

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Speaker 1: in closets, you know what I mean, and hiding pictures

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Speaker 1: of our kids and lying about going to our kids

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Speaker 1: soccer game or doctor's appointments because we're supposed to hide

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Speaker 1: our mother and we're not crazy for doing that. That

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Speaker 1: is what we have been taught that the way to succeed,

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Speaker 1: the way to get the corner office is to basically

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Speaker 1: pretend you not a mom. Are any company is doing

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Speaker 1: it right, doing it well. That can be held up

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Speaker 1: as a model for others to say, hey, you know,

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Speaker 1: you're not going to sacrifice productivity or the bottom line.

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Speaker 1: In fact, you may increase it if you're more accommodating

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Speaker 1: to working moms. And you know, ps, I think you're

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Speaker 1: not going to get gender equality if they're not more

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Speaker 1: accommodating to working dads. Yes, there are. You know, Walmart

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Speaker 1: had introduced something, uh, basically for salary workers. A lot

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Speaker 1: of salary workers want flexibility, but if you're an hourly worker,

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Speaker 1: what you want is predictability. You work in retail, Walmart,

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Speaker 1: you got the seven pm shift, you arrange for childcare,

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Speaker 1: You show up for your seven pm shift, and guess what,

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Speaker 1: It's been canceled. Now you're out money. So what Walmart

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Speaker 1: had done is basically designed an app that allows employees

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Speaker 1: essentially switch shifts with one another and so that they

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Speaker 1: can get more predictability over their schedule. Simple. Everybody should

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Speaker 1: be doing this. Petigo only has always been doing incredible

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Speaker 1: things in terms of their paid leave benefits. You know

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Speaker 1: a handful of companies like Google, like Disney, you know,

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Speaker 1: have offered on site care. So I do think that

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Speaker 1: there are companies. You know, Google just announced that they've

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Speaker 1: increased the amount of paid leave in sick days that

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Speaker 1: they're offering for their you know, employees, and so I

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Speaker 1: think that there are companies that have been innovative and

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Speaker 1: have been pushing this issue, but we definitely definitely need more.

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Speaker 1: What I worry about is we don't want it to

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Speaker 1: be a band aid fixed for the pandemic. So I'm

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Speaker 1: gonna offer you know, I'm gonna pay for your child

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Speaker 1: care now. I'm gonna give your predictability and flexibility now.

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Speaker 1: But when things go back to normal, we go back

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Speaker 1: to normal. And so I think what we want to

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Speaker 1: do is really connect the economic cost of not actually

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Speaker 1: changing these structures, you know, for companies, in terms of attrition,

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Speaker 1: in terms of innovation, in terms of diversity, so that

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Speaker 1: we get wholesale changes you know that we embed into

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Speaker 1: our workplaces forever. Have you seen evidence that some companies

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Speaker 1: are seeing this as a band aid and a temporary fix. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean you're seeing You're there are a bunch of

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Speaker 1: articles that came out, you know, a month ago about

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Speaker 1: how companies have started pulling their paid leave policies, you know,

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Speaker 1: like Amazon, And I definitely think that when I talked

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Speaker 1: to CEOs here in New York City, everybody is jonesing

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Speaker 1: for people to get back into the office. It's just

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Speaker 1: it's it's the way things have been, you know, listen.

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Speaker 1: I just think that we think that. One of the

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Speaker 1: other fascinating things in writing pay Up that I really

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Speaker 1: learned was that we've been trying to solve the pay

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Speaker 1: gap forever, and the pay gap really exists between moms

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Speaker 1: and dads. There is essentially no pay gap between childless

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Speaker 1: women and childless men, because when we think about a

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Speaker 1: mom and she enters the workforce, we think that she's

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Speaker 1: not as focused, she's not as committed, that she's distracted,

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Speaker 1: and we dock her and pay or in opportunities because

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00:23:54,119 --> 00:23:57,480
Speaker 1: of that. I do think the negligence, you know, one

430
00:23:57,520 --> 00:24:00,600
Speaker 1: of the not silver linings of the pandemic is everyone's

431
00:24:00,600 --> 00:24:03,439
Speaker 1: seen everything you've seen that I do have kids, that

432
00:24:03,520 --> 00:24:06,480
Speaker 1: they do interrupt me how I do operate in my house,

433
00:24:06,800 --> 00:24:10,800
Speaker 1: and you've made more judgments about my commitment, my dedication

434
00:24:11,200 --> 00:24:13,600
Speaker 1: to my job. And so I think that women are

435
00:24:13,640 --> 00:24:16,640
Speaker 1: being more penalized, you know what I mean, for their

436
00:24:16,720 --> 00:24:19,520
Speaker 1: caretaking than they were pre COVID because we were hiding

437
00:24:19,520 --> 00:24:23,760
Speaker 1: it before then. And so I do think the cultural

438
00:24:23,840 --> 00:24:27,680
Speaker 1: shift of like you know, like you would think right

439
00:24:27,760 --> 00:24:29,480
Speaker 1: that we all would have gotten a memo being like,

440
00:24:29,520 --> 00:24:31,919
Speaker 1: what do you need? I see that schools are closed,

441
00:24:32,000 --> 00:24:33,840
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. And all the data has

442
00:24:33,840 --> 00:24:35,919
Speaker 1: been out there, there's an article written every one minute

443
00:24:36,040 --> 00:24:39,600
Speaker 1: about this. But none of us got that memo. There

444
00:24:39,600 --> 00:24:42,919
Speaker 1: has not been this declaration of companies who are saying

445
00:24:43,359 --> 00:24:45,440
Speaker 1: we stand up for moms. We're going to bail out

446
00:24:45,480 --> 00:24:48,359
Speaker 1: mops and we're gonna ask them what they need, and

447
00:24:48,359 --> 00:24:51,400
Speaker 1: we're going to redesign our workplaces, you know. And so

448
00:24:51,640 --> 00:24:54,080
Speaker 1: we have got to demand that. And so one of

449
00:24:54,119 --> 00:24:55,800
Speaker 1: the things I'm trying to do with pay Up is

450
00:24:55,840 --> 00:25:00,400
Speaker 1: ignite this, you know, this workplace organizing in to say

451
00:25:00,480 --> 00:25:03,480
Speaker 1: to mom's you, it doesn't have to be this way.

452
00:25:03,880 --> 00:25:06,760
Speaker 1: You deserve these things. These are the tools for you

453
00:25:06,800 --> 00:25:10,320
Speaker 1: to ask for these things and and start raising that

454
00:25:10,400 --> 00:25:15,600
Speaker 1: consciousness level. Right. Um. But it goes very much against

455
00:25:15,640 --> 00:25:18,520
Speaker 1: everything that kind of feminism and these workplace books have

456
00:25:18,600 --> 00:25:23,159
Speaker 1: basically to including myself, you know, I've been preaching the

457
00:25:23,240 --> 00:25:28,399
Speaker 1: gospel of you know, corporate feminism absolutely. I mean, Katie,

458
00:25:28,440 --> 00:25:30,560
Speaker 1: I remember like when I'd be speaking at a conference

459
00:25:30,720 --> 00:25:32,680
Speaker 1: and a young woman would raise her hand she said,

460
00:25:32,720 --> 00:25:35,520
Speaker 1: Mr Johnny, you know, but how do you balance, you know,

461
00:25:35,640 --> 00:25:40,040
Speaker 1: your family and your job. I would literally waive her away.

462
00:25:42,200 --> 00:25:46,920
Speaker 1: I'm I'm embarrassed that I actually acted and and made

463
00:25:46,920 --> 00:25:49,560
Speaker 1: her feel like it was not something she should be

464
00:25:49,560 --> 00:25:52,800
Speaker 1: concerned about. And so when she became a mom and

465
00:25:52,880 --> 00:25:55,880
Speaker 1: she struggled with that balance, she thought, gosh, there's something

466
00:25:55,920 --> 00:25:59,120
Speaker 1: wrong with me, and there was nothing ever wrong with you.

467
00:25:59,800 --> 00:26:03,879
Speaker 1: This system was always stabbed against you. What should you

468
00:26:03,920 --> 00:26:07,640
Speaker 1: have said to that young woman. I should have said

469
00:26:07,680 --> 00:26:12,240
Speaker 1: to the young woman, one give yourself grace to how

470
00:26:12,240 --> 00:26:15,440
Speaker 1: do you ask your employer and your partner and our government,

471
00:26:15,840 --> 00:26:17,640
Speaker 1: you know, and for what you need and for what

472
00:26:17,680 --> 00:26:21,320
Speaker 1: you deserve, and that that the system is staffed against you,

473
00:26:22,040 --> 00:26:25,480
Speaker 1: and that instead of like spending all that time trying

474
00:26:25,520 --> 00:26:29,440
Speaker 1: to just you know, lean in and you know, climb

475
00:26:29,520 --> 00:26:31,920
Speaker 1: your way to the to the corner office, figure out

476
00:26:31,960 --> 00:26:34,600
Speaker 1: how you can basically be both pieces of yourself in

477
00:26:34,600 --> 00:26:50,480
Speaker 1: a way that is healthy. We'll be right back. You

478
00:26:50,520 --> 00:26:54,639
Speaker 1: talk about corporations, but tell us the status of the

479
00:26:54,680 --> 00:26:57,800
Speaker 1: Martial Plan for Moms and just review what's in it.

480
00:26:57,840 --> 00:27:02,000
Speaker 1: Although we've talked a lot about the events of it already. Yeah,

481
00:27:02,040 --> 00:27:04,040
Speaker 1: you know, when we we when we launched from really

482
00:27:04,040 --> 00:27:06,639
Speaker 1: focused on making sure Build Back Better passes, and the

483
00:27:07,160 --> 00:27:10,520
Speaker 1: components of Build Back Better had the things that my

484
00:27:10,640 --> 00:27:13,560
Speaker 1: pt mom said that they needed to return back to

485
00:27:13,640 --> 00:27:18,600
Speaker 1: work better, you know, which was affordable childcare, paid leave,

486
00:27:19,080 --> 00:27:22,560
Speaker 1: opening up schools safely, you know, reach training for women

487
00:27:22,600 --> 00:27:25,560
Speaker 1: who have been automated out of the workforce, and getting

488
00:27:25,640 --> 00:27:29,000
Speaker 1: rid of the motherhood penalty. And so listen, this has

489
00:27:29,040 --> 00:27:31,760
Speaker 1: been a tough year for us as activists in terms

490
00:27:31,760 --> 00:27:34,159
Speaker 1: of the fact that it is so you know, it

491
00:27:34,400 --> 00:27:37,119
Speaker 1: couldn't get any worse for moms and for women, and

492
00:27:37,160 --> 00:27:40,119
Speaker 1: we still couldn't pass that bill. Wow, what does that

493
00:27:40,240 --> 00:27:43,080
Speaker 1: really say about what you think about us? And so

494
00:27:43,200 --> 00:27:45,520
Speaker 1: I think we've had to turn and say, but we

495
00:27:45,560 --> 00:27:48,760
Speaker 1: can't leave moms out there like that with no support.

496
00:27:48,960 --> 00:27:52,200
Speaker 1: So what's the other way that we can get them changed?

497
00:27:52,760 --> 00:27:56,159
Speaker 1: And so we're really focused now on the private sector

498
00:27:56,280 --> 00:27:58,840
Speaker 1: and figuring out whether the private sector can step in

499
00:27:59,400 --> 00:28:02,399
Speaker 1: and off for you know what I mean, the support

500
00:28:02,480 --> 00:28:05,120
Speaker 1: levers that that moms and working women need right now.

501
00:28:05,400 --> 00:28:08,119
Speaker 1: So one, you know, we're building a campaign to push

502
00:28:08,160 --> 00:28:12,160
Speaker 1: companies to start subsidizing childcare, and we're doing the math

503
00:28:12,560 --> 00:28:16,199
Speaker 1: that the cost of attrition is actually gonna higher then

504
00:28:16,240 --> 00:28:19,919
Speaker 1: if you started paying for childcare. You know, one of

505
00:28:19,960 --> 00:28:23,240
Speaker 1: the impediments to subsidize in childcare has always been real estate.

506
00:28:23,640 --> 00:28:27,399
Speaker 1: Well there's plenty of open real estate now because you know,

507
00:28:27,440 --> 00:28:29,360
Speaker 1: we're never gonna go back to five days of work

508
00:28:29,359 --> 00:28:33,080
Speaker 1: a week, right probably, so this may be an opportunity

509
00:28:33,280 --> 00:28:35,439
Speaker 1: right to start building you know what I mean in

510
00:28:35,720 --> 00:28:38,720
Speaker 1: you know, in office care, you know, for working parents,

511
00:28:38,760 --> 00:28:40,840
Speaker 1: and we need to start exploring that, you know, in

512
00:28:41,040 --> 00:28:45,200
Speaker 1: second or other lovers, like providing cash, you know, backup

513
00:28:45,280 --> 00:28:47,959
Speaker 1: care again, all the different ways that we can actually

514
00:28:47,960 --> 00:28:51,720
Speaker 1: start taking on that piece of childcare. You know. The

515
00:28:51,760 --> 00:28:54,280
Speaker 1: second thing is it's not enough to talk about paid

516
00:28:54,320 --> 00:28:59,800
Speaker 1: leave without basically starting trying to push companies, to push

517
00:29:00,400 --> 00:29:04,200
Speaker 1: men to take it to at the same levels as us.

518
00:29:04,840 --> 00:29:06,840
Speaker 1: How do you make that happen? Well, one basic thing

519
00:29:06,880 --> 00:29:10,760
Speaker 1: is you should have gender neutral paid leave policies. There's

520
00:29:10,800 --> 00:29:14,440
Speaker 1: no reason why any company should be offering tweeks to

521
00:29:14,520 --> 00:29:18,160
Speaker 1: women in four weeks to two. Dad's no no reason,

522
00:29:18,760 --> 00:29:21,320
Speaker 1: you know. And secondly, even more so, I think we

523
00:29:21,360 --> 00:29:25,479
Speaker 1: should be tying performance or compensation to whether you do

524
00:29:25,680 --> 00:29:30,000
Speaker 1: take leave. You know, you don't. Companies shouldn't get to tout, oh,

525
00:29:30,040 --> 00:29:31,960
Speaker 1: we offered paid leave. Well, and I want to know

526
00:29:32,000 --> 00:29:35,080
Speaker 1: who's taking it. Who do you offer it to? Who

527
00:29:35,120 --> 00:29:38,200
Speaker 1: takes it? What's your culture? Do you gaslight men when

528
00:29:38,240 --> 00:29:41,440
Speaker 1: they do, because all the data shows that like men,

529
00:29:41,840 --> 00:29:45,480
Speaker 1: you know, less diabetes less heart attacks, live longer when

530
00:29:45,520 --> 00:29:48,000
Speaker 1: they spend time and care for their kids. They want

531
00:29:48,040 --> 00:29:51,640
Speaker 1: to do it, but they're penalized, but they're penalized when

532
00:29:51,640 --> 00:29:55,160
Speaker 1: they do. And I'm sure you've seen this right. You know,

533
00:29:55,320 --> 00:29:59,200
Speaker 1: you've admitted to having an anti mom bias at points

534
00:29:59,200 --> 00:30:03,160
Speaker 1: in your career. And I have to say, I remember

535
00:30:03,320 --> 00:30:08,400
Speaker 1: somebody taking paternity leave when I was working at Yahoo

536
00:30:08,400 --> 00:30:13,560
Speaker 1: and thinking, what you know? So it's one thing to

537
00:30:13,560 --> 00:30:17,560
Speaker 1: to want to support these policies, but when push comes

538
00:30:17,600 --> 00:30:20,520
Speaker 1: to shove and like somebody you need at work is

539
00:30:21,200 --> 00:30:26,640
Speaker 1: gone for twelve weeks, you're like, shit, really, I'm not

540
00:30:26,720 --> 00:30:31,360
Speaker 1: digging this. Yeah, I listen the same thing for me.

541
00:30:31,400 --> 00:30:34,360
Speaker 1: I mean at Girls and Crowd, like almost of my

542
00:30:34,600 --> 00:30:37,120
Speaker 1: employees were women, and somebody was pregnant all the time,

543
00:30:37,520 --> 00:30:40,760
Speaker 1: somebody was out all the time, and there were moments

544
00:30:40,880 --> 00:30:43,320
Speaker 1: I'm like, why have I offered this generous? You know,

545
00:30:43,800 --> 00:30:47,000
Speaker 1: and I'm a nonprofit but I think the thing is

546
00:30:47,000 --> 00:30:49,360
Speaker 1: is like it is the right thing to do for society.

547
00:30:49,440 --> 00:30:54,240
Speaker 1: And I will say every time we did, we inspired loyalty.

548
00:30:54,320 --> 00:30:57,600
Speaker 1: We had low rates of attrition, and people people stayed

549
00:30:57,640 --> 00:31:00,200
Speaker 1: with you because you helped them during a to off

550
00:31:00,240 --> 00:31:03,680
Speaker 1: time in their lives, and it mattered. And so I

551
00:31:03,720 --> 00:31:08,760
Speaker 1: think the benefits essentially outweigh the costs um and so

552
00:31:08,960 --> 00:31:11,240
Speaker 1: I think we just have to keep reminding ourselves. I

553
00:31:11,320 --> 00:31:13,440
Speaker 1: also just think that, like, you know, it's interesting. I

554
00:31:13,480 --> 00:31:15,720
Speaker 1: think Norway is a good test example for this is

555
00:31:15,760 --> 00:31:18,960
Speaker 1: that when they started putting policies like this into place

556
00:31:18,960 --> 00:31:20,800
Speaker 1: where essentially you would have to take it or lose

557
00:31:20,840 --> 00:31:24,000
Speaker 1: it or tying it to compensation, you know, they went

558
00:31:24,080 --> 00:31:25,880
Speaker 1: from like a small percentage of men taking it to

559
00:31:25,920 --> 00:31:28,840
Speaker 1: the overwhelming amount of men taking it, and the entire

560
00:31:29,000 --> 00:31:34,000
Speaker 1: culture of caretaking changed dramatically. You know, I have two boys,

561
00:31:34,280 --> 00:31:37,720
Speaker 1: and I I want I have to make a conscious

562
00:31:37,720 --> 00:31:41,240
Speaker 1: effort every day, every day to get them to be caretakers.

563
00:31:41,600 --> 00:31:43,160
Speaker 1: One of the reasons why we have a shortage of

564
00:31:43,280 --> 00:31:45,480
Speaker 1: nurses and teachers is because we don't have any men

565
00:31:45,520 --> 00:31:49,720
Speaker 1: going into those professions, you know, and those professions, especially

566
00:31:49,760 --> 00:31:53,440
Speaker 1: in home care, are the future. So like men rather

567
00:31:53,920 --> 00:31:56,320
Speaker 1: go on unemployment than work in those jobs. What is

568
00:31:56,360 --> 00:31:59,800
Speaker 1: that saying about our society? What we have taught men?

569
00:32:00,880 --> 00:32:03,520
Speaker 1: And so that has got to shift. And you know,

570
00:32:03,640 --> 00:32:05,760
Speaker 1: and finally, the thing I've think been thinking again we've

571
00:32:05,800 --> 00:32:10,360
Speaker 1: talked about the book is mental health. You know, I know,

572
00:32:10,800 --> 00:32:13,760
Speaker 1: I've had a lot of friends who have gone, you know,

573
00:32:13,880 --> 00:32:18,120
Speaker 1: into rehab, you know who addiction issues have popped back up,

574
00:32:18,560 --> 00:32:21,320
Speaker 1: you know, during the past couple of years that are

575
00:32:21,440 --> 00:32:25,760
Speaker 1: just really really struggling. You know, they're losing their temper,

576
00:32:25,960 --> 00:32:28,920
Speaker 1: losing their patients, are just not sleeping, exhausted, just all

577
00:32:28,960 --> 00:32:31,560
Speaker 1: of it. Are the worst kind of health state that

578
00:32:31,600 --> 00:32:34,400
Speaker 1: they've ever been. And now we're saying we'll come back

579
00:32:34,440 --> 00:32:37,320
Speaker 1: to work and doors are open, and women are coming

580
00:32:37,360 --> 00:32:42,080
Speaker 1: back not fully there because at the same time we're

581
00:32:42,120 --> 00:32:44,400
Speaker 1: having to manage what's happening with our kids. I mean

582
00:32:45,000 --> 00:32:48,800
Speaker 1: my two children. You know, my two year old, you know, uh,

583
00:32:49,240 --> 00:32:52,600
Speaker 1: I can't talk and I have a someone, a speech

584
00:32:52,640 --> 00:32:56,280
Speaker 1: therapist come he's too and I had to take him.

585
00:32:56,320 --> 00:32:59,640
Speaker 1: He is like zero percent weight. So, like all of

586
00:32:59,680 --> 00:33:03,800
Speaker 1: this pandemic related, My seven year old has anxiety and

587
00:33:03,960 --> 00:33:07,400
Speaker 1: eats his clothes. You know, and and so I my

588
00:33:07,480 --> 00:33:11,160
Speaker 1: mind is always focused on and them and how am

589
00:33:11,200 --> 00:33:15,000
Speaker 1: I helping them? How am I healing them? And then

590
00:33:15,000 --> 00:33:18,320
Speaker 1: I know we're about me. And so I think so

591
00:33:18,400 --> 00:33:22,320
Speaker 1: many of us as parents are in this state of mind.

592
00:33:23,160 --> 00:33:26,040
Speaker 1: And I do think that companies to acknowledge that there's

593
00:33:26,160 --> 00:33:30,160
Speaker 1: that I I I bear that burden of my kid's

594
00:33:30,240 --> 00:33:33,360
Speaker 1: mental health a little bit more than my husband does.

595
00:33:33,400 --> 00:33:35,120
Speaker 1: And not because it is he doesn't love and care

596
00:33:35,160 --> 00:33:37,080
Speaker 1: them and all that, but but there it weighs on me,

597
00:33:37,280 --> 00:33:38,880
Speaker 1: and I think it weighs on mom. And this goes

598
00:33:38,880 --> 00:33:40,280
Speaker 1: back to like we're not gonna stop being who we

599
00:33:40,360 --> 00:33:44,080
Speaker 1: are and moms and are worrying or are carrying or

600
00:33:44,120 --> 00:33:47,760
Speaker 1: are obsessing, right like, it's who we are. And I

601
00:33:47,800 --> 00:33:49,800
Speaker 1: think that that's going back to companies. I feel like

602
00:33:49,800 --> 00:33:51,400
Speaker 1: they have to accept us for who we are and

603
00:33:51,440 --> 00:33:55,719
Speaker 1: recognize and provide us the support in this moment, you know,

604
00:33:55,800 --> 00:33:58,120
Speaker 1: so we don't have to downshift our careers and we

605
00:33:58,200 --> 00:34:00,080
Speaker 1: don't have to choose between our job and our it.

606
00:34:01,240 --> 00:34:06,880
Speaker 1: What about government solutions? Have you given up on that now?

607
00:34:06,960 --> 00:34:09,239
Speaker 1: And you can't. We can't give up on that, right

608
00:34:09,239 --> 00:34:11,799
Speaker 1: because even if the Priva Center starts offering some of

609
00:34:11,800 --> 00:34:15,640
Speaker 1: these solutions, it won't reach everyone, and we've got to

610
00:34:15,760 --> 00:34:19,919
Speaker 1: reach everyone. It's not right if the corner office personal

611
00:34:19,960 --> 00:34:21,839
Speaker 1: works in Walmart, you know what I mean, gets paid

612
00:34:21,920 --> 00:34:23,880
Speaker 1: le even affordable childcare, but the person working in this

613
00:34:23,960 --> 00:34:26,600
Speaker 1: tour doesn't. And we don't want to create a society

614
00:34:26,640 --> 00:34:29,399
Speaker 1: where depending upon you know, how much money you make

615
00:34:29,520 --> 00:34:32,040
Speaker 1: or the color of your skin, you know, determines whether

616
00:34:32,120 --> 00:34:34,640
Speaker 1: you can or cannot have a child or thrive, you know,

617
00:34:34,680 --> 00:34:38,240
Speaker 1: in your mental health. And so we need government to act.

618
00:34:38,960 --> 00:34:42,680
Speaker 1: I think though, that moms we need to organize too.

619
00:34:43,160 --> 00:34:45,240
Speaker 1: You know, if you think about every major mother's movement

620
00:34:45,280 --> 00:34:48,319
Speaker 1: that's out there, it's always moms organizing for their kids,

621
00:34:49,120 --> 00:34:52,400
Speaker 1: drunk driving, guns, you know what I mean, climate, you

622
00:34:52,480 --> 00:34:56,719
Speaker 1: name it. But moms have to start organizing for moms.

623
00:34:57,840 --> 00:35:01,239
Speaker 1: And maybe it was too much to ask right for

624
00:35:01,320 --> 00:35:03,960
Speaker 1: us to do that this year, but we start have

625
00:35:04,040 --> 00:35:06,560
Speaker 1: to start. And I think workplaces is where moms are

626
00:35:06,600 --> 00:35:09,040
Speaker 1: focused because that is so deeply connected to their everyday

627
00:35:09,040 --> 00:35:11,239
Speaker 1: life as mothers. Am I going to get time on

628
00:35:11,440 --> 00:35:13,680
Speaker 1: flexibility so I can take my kids to their therapy

629
00:35:13,680 --> 00:35:16,520
Speaker 1: appointment at three o'clock? Right? Am I going to be

630
00:35:16,600 --> 00:35:18,520
Speaker 1: able to spend some time with their kids doing their

631
00:35:18,560 --> 00:35:20,680
Speaker 1: homework because they need my attention right now, or is

632
00:35:20,680 --> 00:35:21,880
Speaker 1: my office going to tell me that I need to

633
00:35:21,920 --> 00:35:24,120
Speaker 1: be there from nine to six and that's it, right

634
00:35:24,160 --> 00:35:28,520
Speaker 1: And so this workplace activism and organizing is really critical

635
00:35:28,560 --> 00:35:30,719
Speaker 1: to moms right now, and we're going to teach them

636
00:35:30,719 --> 00:35:33,399
Speaker 1: how to do it and what can be done right

637
00:35:33,440 --> 00:35:36,759
Speaker 1: now by moms and bosses while we wait for the

638
00:35:36,840 --> 00:35:40,799
Speaker 1: government to hopefully give more support. And when you say

639
00:35:40,840 --> 00:35:43,919
Speaker 1: the government is needed, so some people don't have these

640
00:35:43,960 --> 00:35:47,880
Speaker 1: advantages and others don't, are you suggesting the government needs

641
00:35:47,880 --> 00:35:50,960
Speaker 1: to mandate these things? I think part of it is

642
00:35:51,200 --> 00:35:53,680
Speaker 1: the government can provide benefits. Let's just say you are

643
00:35:53,719 --> 00:35:56,319
Speaker 1: a digital you know you're in the digital economy, right

644
00:35:56,400 --> 00:35:58,480
Speaker 1: or the gig economy. You don't work for one of

645
00:35:58,480 --> 00:36:01,040
Speaker 1: these big companies, you know, you may not get the

646
00:36:01,080 --> 00:36:03,560
Speaker 1: benefit of paid leave, and your benefit may come from

647
00:36:03,560 --> 00:36:06,080
Speaker 1: a federal benefit. So there are gonna be people who

648
00:36:06,080 --> 00:36:09,239
Speaker 1: are left out by just private sector solutions. And that's

649
00:36:09,239 --> 00:36:11,160
Speaker 1: what I'm talking about, and that's why it's important for

650
00:36:11,200 --> 00:36:15,480
Speaker 1: the government, you know, to play a role also for

651
00:36:15,600 --> 00:36:17,880
Speaker 1: us when we think about so and This didn't happen

652
00:36:17,880 --> 00:36:19,560
Speaker 1: with paid leave in the way that I think we

653
00:36:19,600 --> 00:36:22,080
Speaker 1: would all have wanted it to, which is, when you

654
00:36:22,080 --> 00:36:24,840
Speaker 1: know Google is offering paid leave, who are they offering

655
00:36:24,880 --> 00:36:27,279
Speaker 1: it to? Should they be making me sure that every

656
00:36:27,320 --> 00:36:29,320
Speaker 1: single one of their suppliers and customers, you know what

657
00:36:29,320 --> 00:36:31,640
Speaker 1: I mean, get access to it as well? How are

658
00:36:31,640 --> 00:36:34,360
Speaker 1: we making sure of that companies that have hourly employees

659
00:36:34,360 --> 00:36:38,440
Speaker 1: and salaried employees offer the exact same benefits to both.

660
00:36:39,160 --> 00:36:41,600
Speaker 1: And I think in this moment that's what we have

661
00:36:41,680 --> 00:36:44,640
Speaker 1: to actually demand, And I think the government can actually

662
00:36:44,760 --> 00:36:47,760
Speaker 1: help put the pressure on the companies to make sure

663
00:36:48,160 --> 00:36:50,680
Speaker 1: that when they're providing those benefits, they're providing them to

664
00:36:50,800 --> 00:36:54,160
Speaker 1: all of them, almost like an osha if you will,

665
00:36:54,800 --> 00:36:59,880
Speaker 1: but for employment. Does that make sense? Yeah, that makes sense.

666
00:37:00,320 --> 00:37:02,600
Speaker 1: I think we have to. Like, the data has always

667
00:37:02,680 --> 00:37:06,879
Speaker 1: been clear that that childcare in particular, like is very

668
00:37:06,920 --> 00:37:11,320
Speaker 1: similar to health care. If you start providing early education

669
00:37:11,360 --> 00:37:14,800
Speaker 1: to children, they live longer, right, they're healthier, it's less

670
00:37:14,840 --> 00:37:18,040
Speaker 1: of a cost and attacks on society. So the data

671
00:37:18,080 --> 00:37:20,680
Speaker 1: and the evidence that companies should be investing in this

672
00:37:21,560 --> 00:37:25,279
Speaker 1: is there, and uh, and so now it's time for

673
00:37:25,320 --> 00:37:27,359
Speaker 1: them to actually start acting on it. And I think

674
00:37:27,360 --> 00:37:30,040
Speaker 1: if we didn't have this pandemic and then we didn't

675
00:37:30,080 --> 00:37:32,960
Speaker 1: have the great resignation of the Great quit, companies could

676
00:37:32,960 --> 00:37:36,760
Speaker 1: have been like, let the government deal with it. But now,

677
00:37:36,800 --> 00:37:39,799
Speaker 1: I mean, you have Amazon increasing base salaries from a

678
00:37:39,880 --> 00:37:43,480
Speaker 1: hundred and fifty to three hundred thousand dollars. Now, if

679
00:37:43,520 --> 00:37:47,040
Speaker 1: those same workers leave within six or seven months, which

680
00:37:47,040 --> 00:37:49,160
Speaker 1: is what the rate is now of how long people

681
00:37:49,200 --> 00:37:52,319
Speaker 1: stay at companies, you're out money. But if you start

682
00:37:52,360 --> 00:37:56,440
Speaker 1: providing and paying for their childcare, you're more likely to

683
00:37:56,520 --> 00:37:58,719
Speaker 1: retain them, you know, for a year and a half

684
00:37:58,840 --> 00:38:02,759
Speaker 1: or two years, and so you're there's a savings and

685
00:38:02,840 --> 00:38:06,759
Speaker 1: so again, I think the incentives in this moment are

686
00:38:06,960 --> 00:38:10,560
Speaker 1: leaning towards you know it making a lot of business

687
00:38:10,600 --> 00:38:13,799
Speaker 1: sense right for you to like pay up right and

688
00:38:13,840 --> 00:38:20,200
Speaker 1: start offering you know, these benefits services support to what

689
00:38:20,320 --> 00:38:22,480
Speaker 1: will ultimately be to working moms. Because two out of

690
00:38:22,480 --> 00:38:26,960
Speaker 1: three caretakers are women, it's business as usual in terms

691
00:38:27,000 --> 00:38:32,560
Speaker 1: of what you're dealing with RUSHMA deeply entrenched attitudes that

692
00:38:32,640 --> 00:38:37,560
Speaker 1: have existed for a very long time. UH, business practices

693
00:38:37,680 --> 00:38:42,440
Speaker 1: that haven't been challenged. And so are you still optimistic

694
00:38:42,560 --> 00:38:46,799
Speaker 1: that things can change. Because if I were you, I

695
00:38:46,840 --> 00:38:51,120
Speaker 1: think I feel overwhelmed almost every day. Oh my god,

696
00:38:51,400 --> 00:38:55,919
Speaker 1: I I oh, I'm so fired up every day. I'm

697
00:38:55,960 --> 00:38:57,560
Speaker 1: so fired up every day because I feel like we

698
00:38:57,600 --> 00:38:59,839
Speaker 1: have a once in a lifetime opportunity. It's the way

699
00:38:59,840 --> 00:39:01,239
Speaker 1: I felt like when I start a Girl through Code

700
00:39:01,239 --> 00:39:04,920
Speaker 1: ten years ago. Like I think, if you could marry

701
00:39:05,080 --> 00:39:08,879
Speaker 1: the fact that businesses have to do something with the

702
00:39:08,920 --> 00:39:12,239
Speaker 1: fact that I think working women and our allies have

703
00:39:12,440 --> 00:39:16,160
Speaker 1: finally seen that like this is not working, and I

704
00:39:16,239 --> 00:39:19,760
Speaker 1: got something has to change and we're at our breaking point.

705
00:39:20,320 --> 00:39:24,200
Speaker 1: If those two things can come together, it could be

706
00:39:24,239 --> 00:39:26,960
Speaker 1: a perfect storm for that, you know, for us in

707
00:39:27,000 --> 00:39:30,920
Speaker 1: a good way. And that's what I'm betting on um.

708
00:39:31,000 --> 00:39:34,239
Speaker 1: And so in some ways, not passing Bill back better

709
00:39:35,880 --> 00:39:39,160
Speaker 1: was kind of like this, See they really don't give

710
00:39:39,200 --> 00:39:42,399
Speaker 1: a shit about us, right, and like that no one

711
00:39:42,480 --> 00:39:45,000
Speaker 1: is going to save you. That we have to start

712
00:39:45,120 --> 00:39:50,480
Speaker 1: demanding and asking for the things that we deserve. And

713
00:39:50,520 --> 00:39:53,080
Speaker 1: see that's always it's like goes back to that's always

714
00:39:53,160 --> 00:39:55,920
Speaker 1: something that we as women have had. You what I

715
00:39:55,960 --> 00:39:59,160
Speaker 1: mean to do in the first place, And I do

716
00:39:59,239 --> 00:40:01,719
Speaker 1: think I was I was a straight a student, went

717
00:40:01,760 --> 00:40:03,920
Speaker 1: to Harvard, and Neil thought if I did everything right

718
00:40:03,920 --> 00:40:06,239
Speaker 1: and had the perfect resume, that I would just get

719
00:40:06,280 --> 00:40:09,520
Speaker 1: to be a CEO. They would just pull out the

720
00:40:09,560 --> 00:40:12,600
Speaker 1: red carpet. It didn't matter, though. It didn't matter how

721
00:40:12,640 --> 00:40:15,440
Speaker 1: smart I was, how hard I tried, how prepared I was.

722
00:40:16,000 --> 00:40:20,520
Speaker 1: It was always stacked against me and all of us.

723
00:40:20,560 --> 00:40:23,319
Speaker 1: And when I say me, I mean us. Let's talk

724
00:40:23,360 --> 00:40:28,359
Speaker 1: about this looming uh likelihood that roe v Wade will

725
00:40:28,400 --> 00:40:33,200
Speaker 1: be overturned. Um, how does that fit into the equation

726
00:40:33,560 --> 00:40:38,040
Speaker 1: and and where does that put working women in general?

727
00:40:38,640 --> 00:40:41,240
Speaker 1: I mean I wrote a not bet about this that

728
00:40:41,239 --> 00:40:44,080
Speaker 1: that essentially this goes back. This is now the Priva

729
00:40:44,160 --> 00:40:46,760
Speaker 1: Center has kind of not dealt with Roe v. Wade

730
00:40:47,000 --> 00:40:49,879
Speaker 1: and reproductive rights because I think they never thought maybe

731
00:40:49,920 --> 00:40:52,080
Speaker 1: the moment would come where we would be sitting here

732
00:40:52,080 --> 00:40:55,040
Speaker 1: with a very weally quid chance that Roe v. Wade

733
00:40:55,040 --> 00:40:57,960
Speaker 1: is going to be overturned. And so yet again now

734
00:40:58,040 --> 00:41:03,560
Speaker 1: it's up to businesses because is to provide you know,

735
00:41:03,760 --> 00:41:07,120
Speaker 1: basically provide abortion access to their employees. I mean, I

736
00:41:07,120 --> 00:41:08,880
Speaker 1: think I wrote in the MyD like one out of

737
00:41:08,920 --> 00:41:12,040
Speaker 1: three employees will have an abortion at some point, right,

738
00:41:12,080 --> 00:41:14,640
Speaker 1: So this is like the vast majority, you know, of

739
00:41:14,680 --> 00:41:17,000
Speaker 1: their population. So they have to think about how they're

740
00:41:17,000 --> 00:41:19,960
Speaker 1: going to actually protect support, you know what I mean,

741
00:41:20,239 --> 00:41:22,759
Speaker 1: the right to choose. How can they do that the

742
00:41:22,920 --> 00:41:25,440
Speaker 1: rushima you know, if if, if it will be okay

743
00:41:25,520 --> 00:41:31,960
Speaker 1: for states to ban abortion and working women having to go,

744
00:41:33,200 --> 00:41:36,080
Speaker 1: you know, get the day off and travel to another state,

745
00:41:36,160 --> 00:41:40,040
Speaker 1: and many of them can't even afford abortions, right, I mean,

746
00:41:40,239 --> 00:41:43,279
Speaker 1: it's it's just saying the companies need to help, Like

747
00:41:43,360 --> 00:41:45,000
Speaker 1: what does that mean? And what does that they to

748
00:41:45,120 --> 00:41:47,600
Speaker 1: pay for it? Like if if I'm employed and I

749
00:41:47,640 --> 00:41:50,000
Speaker 1: live in Texas and that Texas is now you know,

750
00:41:50,080 --> 00:41:52,200
Speaker 1: outlawed abortions, You're going to have to pay for me

751
00:41:52,280 --> 00:41:54,560
Speaker 1: to get to New York City, you know what I mean,

752
00:41:54,760 --> 00:41:58,160
Speaker 1: my flight, my airfare, the cost of it, you know,

753
00:41:58,239 --> 00:42:01,160
Speaker 1: it is now your problem. And I think that this

754
00:42:01,239 --> 00:42:03,879
Speaker 1: is also the cost of when companies actually don't stand

755
00:42:03,960 --> 00:42:06,439
Speaker 1: up and speak out, you know, and join the fight.

756
00:42:06,920 --> 00:42:08,360
Speaker 1: I think we have to, you know, they have to

757
00:42:08,400 --> 00:42:11,880
Speaker 1: basically play a role in the play a role in

758
00:42:12,000 --> 00:42:15,879
Speaker 1: making sure that this right exists for women. It's such

759
00:42:15,880 --> 00:42:19,480
Speaker 1: a political hot potato. I have a hard time imagining

760
00:42:20,000 --> 00:42:25,120
Speaker 1: even if it should be done. Companies being like, come

761
00:42:25,120 --> 00:42:27,000
Speaker 1: to us if you need an abortion, We're going to

762
00:42:27,080 --> 00:42:28,960
Speaker 1: take care of it for you, and we're going to

763
00:42:29,080 --> 00:42:33,200
Speaker 1: help you. Some have salesforce. I'll tell you this. When

764
00:42:33,200 --> 00:42:35,760
Speaker 1: I wrote this article, I have. I am still getting

765
00:42:35,800 --> 00:42:38,640
Speaker 1: emails from your g's basically being like, we had a

766
00:42:38,640 --> 00:42:41,799
Speaker 1: big conversation about this, you know, at a human resources meeting,

767
00:42:41,800 --> 00:42:44,360
Speaker 1: because I think they know that it's coming, and also

768
00:42:44,480 --> 00:42:47,359
Speaker 1: millennials are asking them what are your policies on this?

769
00:42:48,200 --> 00:42:51,200
Speaker 1: So going back to the great resignation and who's actually

770
00:42:51,200 --> 00:42:54,640
Speaker 1: coming back into the workforce, it's childless women. It's the

771
00:42:54,840 --> 00:42:58,279
Speaker 1: very women. I mean, actually it's not true, because the

772
00:42:58,320 --> 00:43:01,080
Speaker 1: vast majority of those who have abortions are others, you know,

773
00:43:01,239 --> 00:43:04,239
Speaker 1: but it is women who who care about this right

774
00:43:04,440 --> 00:43:07,200
Speaker 1: and want to know your position and want to know

775
00:43:07,600 --> 00:43:10,839
Speaker 1: whether you are going to actually help them pay for

776
00:43:11,040 --> 00:43:14,680
Speaker 1: protecting that right because you're choosing to stay in a

777
00:43:15,200 --> 00:43:17,080
Speaker 1: stay in the state, and do business with the state

778
00:43:17,200 --> 00:43:20,160
Speaker 1: who has taken away my right to choose. It just

779
00:43:20,400 --> 00:43:24,799
Speaker 1: is kind of amazing that we're even discussing this. Yes,

780
00:43:24,920 --> 00:43:26,960
Speaker 1: I never thought we'd be discussing this as a real

781
00:43:27,280 --> 00:43:31,120
Speaker 1: as like a real thing. What is the solution, Reshima,

782
00:43:31,400 --> 00:43:34,760
Speaker 1: when all is said and done. You know, we've tackled

783
00:43:34,840 --> 00:43:38,520
Speaker 1: so many different aspects of this problem just in this conversation.

784
00:43:39,200 --> 00:43:43,000
Speaker 1: But to wrap things up, what what can we all do?

785
00:43:43,280 --> 00:43:46,359
Speaker 1: And what can moms do? What can businesses do? What

786
00:43:46,480 --> 00:43:51,160
Speaker 1: should the government do? How can we make things better? Yeah?

787
00:43:51,239 --> 00:43:52,319
Speaker 1: I mean, I think the first thing you have to

788
00:43:52,360 --> 00:43:54,840
Speaker 1: realize is one we've all been sold a big lie

789
00:43:55,520 --> 00:43:58,200
Speaker 1: and and that's the way that we've been thinking about

790
00:43:58,200 --> 00:44:01,760
Speaker 1: women's equality in the workplace. Um, it's just been wrong.

791
00:44:02,239 --> 00:44:05,680
Speaker 1: And I think COVID exposed that. And so there is

792
00:44:05,719 --> 00:44:08,960
Speaker 1: no express train to the corner office. You know. We

793
00:44:09,080 --> 00:44:11,400
Speaker 1: have to have the support that we need from the government,

794
00:44:11,600 --> 00:44:13,480
Speaker 1: you know, from our partners to thrive, not just in

795
00:44:13,520 --> 00:44:16,920
Speaker 1: our careers, but like in our lives, you know. And

796
00:44:16,960 --> 00:44:19,920
Speaker 1: we've got to have choices to re enter and exit

797
00:44:19,960 --> 00:44:22,640
Speaker 1: the workforce without penalty. You know, we have to be

798
00:44:22,680 --> 00:44:26,000
Speaker 1: able to not have to hide our motherhood and work

799
00:44:26,040 --> 00:44:28,080
Speaker 1: at a place, work in a society where we're free

800
00:44:28,080 --> 00:44:32,120
Speaker 1: from bias and where motherhood isn't viewed as a distraction

801
00:44:32,800 --> 00:44:36,320
Speaker 1: or you know, to this uh denigrated, but it's actually

802
00:44:36,360 --> 00:44:40,120
Speaker 1: lifted up and celebrated where our mental health is viewed

803
00:44:40,239 --> 00:44:44,239
Speaker 1: as important as our output, right, and will we have

804
00:44:44,360 --> 00:44:48,080
Speaker 1: to stop asking women to do more and start asking

805
00:44:48,160 --> 00:44:52,080
Speaker 1: institutions to pay up. And in my book I talked

806
00:44:52,080 --> 00:44:55,719
Speaker 1: about some real clear ways what we need from the

807
00:44:55,760 --> 00:44:59,280
Speaker 1: government and what we need from our employers to actually

808
00:44:59,360 --> 00:45:02,480
Speaker 1: get there, and what we need to do for ourselves.

809
00:45:03,120 --> 00:45:06,560
Speaker 1: I mean to protect our mental health. Um and to

810
00:45:06,680 --> 00:45:10,880
Speaker 1: stop feeling like this is our problem. We screwed up,

811
00:45:11,040 --> 00:45:13,480
Speaker 1: We've made a mistake, We're not good enough, we just

812
00:45:13,520 --> 00:45:16,520
Speaker 1: can't handle it. None of that is true. I have

813
00:45:16,640 --> 00:45:18,960
Speaker 1: to ask you also if you'd add to the list

814
00:45:19,040 --> 00:45:22,279
Speaker 1: what we need from our partners. It seems to me

815
00:45:22,480 --> 00:45:27,520
Speaker 1: that this should be a discussion as important as do

816
00:45:27,560 --> 00:45:30,560
Speaker 1: you want to have kids? Are you willing to share

817
00:45:30,600 --> 00:45:34,920
Speaker 1: in the responsibilities that it You know that it takes

818
00:45:35,000 --> 00:45:39,760
Speaker 1: to raise kids and to keep and to keep a home. Yeah,

819
00:45:39,760 --> 00:45:41,719
Speaker 1: that's right. And and and look if I when I

820
00:45:41,719 --> 00:45:44,280
Speaker 1: had that conversation with my husband, because again I'm Indian,

821
00:45:44,600 --> 00:45:48,520
Speaker 1: you know, very paternalistic culture, right like, and so I

822
00:45:48,560 --> 00:45:50,319
Speaker 1: was very clear that if I was going to marry

823
00:45:50,320 --> 00:45:52,279
Speaker 1: an any man, and I was going to do what

824
00:45:52,320 --> 00:45:54,000
Speaker 1: I wanted to do, in the world that we had

825
00:45:54,040 --> 00:45:55,880
Speaker 1: to be clear on what are like, you know, what

826
00:45:55,960 --> 00:45:58,200
Speaker 1: the ratio was right like? And I was I was

827
00:45:58,239 --> 00:46:00,400
Speaker 1: wanted him to do sixty and me to do forty.

828
00:46:00,719 --> 00:46:03,000
Speaker 1: You know, that was like my dream. But I do

829
00:46:03,080 --> 00:46:06,600
Speaker 1: think that when you actually get married and you know,

830
00:46:07,520 --> 00:46:11,319
Speaker 1: the things shift, and not because you didn't make the

831
00:46:11,320 --> 00:46:14,360
Speaker 1: deal or didn't have the conversation, but also you know,

832
00:46:14,440 --> 00:46:16,360
Speaker 1: I'll find and I write about this in my book.

833
00:46:16,360 --> 00:46:18,160
Speaker 1: You know, the Hall and I have a deal where

834
00:46:18,520 --> 00:46:22,040
Speaker 1: you know, he does nights and I do mornings. But

835
00:46:22,080 --> 00:46:24,160
Speaker 1: if I'm sitting around, you know, at six o'clock and

836
00:46:24,160 --> 00:46:25,600
Speaker 1: then I said, hey, can you warm up the bottle?

837
00:46:26,239 --> 00:46:29,160
Speaker 1: We just pay gives the sigh his dinner real quick.

838
00:46:29,719 --> 00:46:32,880
Speaker 1: And so even though we've had the conversation, so I

839
00:46:32,960 --> 00:46:35,400
Speaker 1: got to leave the house and I walk around the block,

840
00:46:35,640 --> 00:46:37,960
Speaker 1: go for a drink, maybe do my work out. Then

841
00:46:38,000 --> 00:46:42,040
Speaker 1: but I'm gone and and and so there's there's no argument,

842
00:46:42,040 --> 00:46:44,120
Speaker 1: and he's not like where are you right, It's just

843
00:46:44,160 --> 00:46:46,400
Speaker 1: like if I'm there, I'm gonna just go get it done.

844
00:46:46,920 --> 00:46:49,480
Speaker 1: So part of it is not just our partners, but

845
00:46:49,520 --> 00:46:52,920
Speaker 1: are you telling ourselves? You know, as my friend Tiffany

846
00:46:52,920 --> 00:46:55,280
Speaker 1: to do food says to like to drop the ball.

847
00:46:55,680 --> 00:46:58,480
Speaker 1: You know what I mean, to center ourselves to you know,

848
00:46:58,800 --> 00:47:00,759
Speaker 1: for lack of a better word, be selfish about our

849
00:47:00,800 --> 00:47:04,600
Speaker 1: own self care right in in my case, you know,

850
00:47:04,840 --> 00:47:07,359
Speaker 1: to leave the house. A lot of women, I think

851
00:47:07,560 --> 00:47:09,960
Speaker 1: pretend like they want their partners to do more, but

852
00:47:10,080 --> 00:47:12,640
Speaker 1: if their partners holding the baby, they're gonna make a

853
00:47:12,680 --> 00:47:15,000
Speaker 1: bee line to the baby and say no, I'll take

854
00:47:15,040 --> 00:47:17,040
Speaker 1: care of it, or you're not doing it right. I mean,

855
00:47:17,080 --> 00:47:18,880
Speaker 1: I have a lot of couples who have told me

856
00:47:18,960 --> 00:47:21,839
Speaker 1: stories along those lines. That's why I think it needs

857
00:47:21,880 --> 00:47:24,120
Speaker 1: to start early. I think you should start teaching your

858
00:47:24,160 --> 00:47:27,120
Speaker 1: seven year old how to do laundry, how to wash dishes,

859
00:47:27,440 --> 00:47:30,080
Speaker 1: how to do all these things around the house so

860
00:47:30,480 --> 00:47:34,560
Speaker 1: it won't be seen in his eyes as a woman's job.

861
00:47:34,880 --> 00:47:40,200
Speaker 1: And similarly, I applaud companies like tied and and they're

862
00:47:40,239 --> 00:47:42,680
Speaker 1: not sponsoring this podcast, by the way, but where they

863
00:47:42,760 --> 00:47:46,800
Speaker 1: show a stay at home dad playing with his daughter

864
00:47:46,920 --> 00:47:49,680
Speaker 1: and doing the laundry. You know, I think a lot

865
00:47:49,760 --> 00:47:54,600
Speaker 1: of our ideas of what's a man's job and what's

866
00:47:54,640 --> 00:47:58,439
Speaker 1: a woman's job really has to be upended. It's true.

867
00:47:58,440 --> 00:48:00,520
Speaker 1: I mean, my dream is to have like you Lebron

868
00:48:00,640 --> 00:48:03,640
Speaker 1: James and like you know, Snoop Dogg doing like you know,

869
00:48:03,760 --> 00:48:07,360
Speaker 1: doing the laundry and the dishes, and like our entire

870
00:48:07,440 --> 00:48:10,200
Speaker 1: thing about like masculinity and what it means to be

871
00:48:10,280 --> 00:48:12,680
Speaker 1: a man and to be a successful man who does

872
00:48:12,760 --> 00:48:15,040
Speaker 1: what you know, it was very funny to me and

873
00:48:15,040 --> 00:48:17,239
Speaker 1: some of these surveys that came out during the pandemic

874
00:48:17,360 --> 00:48:20,319
Speaker 1: about homeschooling that you know, women would be like, I'm

875
00:48:20,360 --> 00:48:22,839
Speaker 1: the one who's doing the homeschooling and then would be like, no, no, no,

876
00:48:22,880 --> 00:48:25,439
Speaker 1: I'm the one who's doing it. But there's this real

877
00:48:25,560 --> 00:48:28,600
Speaker 1: kind of perception amongst men that they are doing this work.

878
00:48:29,200 --> 00:48:32,799
Speaker 1: You know, they are doing and you know, for us

879
00:48:33,120 --> 00:48:36,600
Speaker 1: every time and you survey that's done across the world, it's,

880
00:48:37,000 --> 00:48:39,799
Speaker 1: you know, pretty like we're doing eight six of that

881
00:48:39,920 --> 00:48:43,200
Speaker 1: unpaid labor over and over and over again. I don't

882
00:48:43,200 --> 00:48:47,960
Speaker 1: have time for midlife crisis. I mean yeah, but I

883
00:48:48,000 --> 00:48:50,520
Speaker 1: mean it's funny. It's like you you see the reports

884
00:48:50,520 --> 00:48:52,160
Speaker 1: of men during the pandemic, like I've learned how to

885
00:48:52,160 --> 00:48:54,920
Speaker 1: play the guitar. I've never read more in my life.

886
00:48:55,360 --> 00:48:57,920
Speaker 1: You know. It's whereas we are mental health is in

887
00:48:57,960 --> 00:49:02,120
Speaker 1: the toilet. How can that be when the same surveys

888
00:49:02,280 --> 00:49:04,000
Speaker 1: when you ask men and women that they're doing the

889
00:49:04,040 --> 00:49:08,160
Speaker 1: exact same thing. So that's the and part of the

890
00:49:08,160 --> 00:49:12,359
Speaker 1: whole conversation with your partner. It's hard to like, you know,

891
00:49:12,880 --> 00:49:15,279
Speaker 1: like you can talk about it, but like you might

892
00:49:15,320 --> 00:49:18,480
Speaker 1: as well saw where he still thinks he does fifty. Well,

893
00:49:18,560 --> 00:49:21,600
Speaker 1: you've given a lot of people a lot of food

894
00:49:21,600 --> 00:49:25,160
Speaker 1: for thought, and I really admire the energy and passion

895
00:49:25,360 --> 00:49:30,360
Speaker 1: that you've used to to really immerse yourself into this issue.

896
00:49:30,480 --> 00:49:32,040
Speaker 1: Do you feel like you have a lot of other

897
00:49:32,120 --> 00:49:34,960
Speaker 1: people who are joining forces with you? Rushma? Do you

898
00:49:35,000 --> 00:49:38,319
Speaker 1: feel alone in this battle? And something not at all?

899
00:49:38,640 --> 00:49:42,239
Speaker 1: I feel like I have this massive like Mom's community

900
00:49:42,280 --> 00:49:45,799
Speaker 1: on LinkedIn right of just like like you know, like

901
00:49:45,960 --> 00:49:48,799
Speaker 1: people who are were talking about this and seeing it

902
00:49:48,880 --> 00:49:51,480
Speaker 1: and feeling seen. And I think that that's really important.

903
00:49:51,520 --> 00:49:52,600
Speaker 1: I was, you know, I think that there are a

904
00:49:52,680 --> 00:49:55,360
Speaker 1: lot of leaders out there, you know, both in government

905
00:49:55,400 --> 00:49:58,560
Speaker 1: and in the private sector who are passionate about this issue.

906
00:49:59,320 --> 00:50:02,160
Speaker 1: You know, we've been obviously raising money because we're nonprofit.

907
00:50:02,200 --> 00:50:05,440
Speaker 1: I mean, my first ten big checks were men, you know,

908
00:50:05,600 --> 00:50:08,279
Speaker 1: some of them who had single moms. So I think

909
00:50:08,400 --> 00:50:12,600
Speaker 1: people really get the issue. I think the thing is

910
00:50:12,600 --> 00:50:16,320
Speaker 1: is that the approach that we're taking at it is fresh,

911
00:50:16,360 --> 00:50:18,640
Speaker 1: and you know, it's new and it's not been done before.

912
00:50:18,640 --> 00:50:20,319
Speaker 1: And I think so we're trying to figure out, like

913
00:50:20,360 --> 00:50:23,120
Speaker 1: what's the right model? How do you approach this? How

914
00:50:23,120 --> 00:50:25,120
Speaker 1: do you do this? I too, and we talked about

915
00:50:25,120 --> 00:50:27,279
Speaker 1: this when we first started, when you first talked to

916
00:50:27,320 --> 00:50:28,960
Speaker 1: me about the Marshall Plan, right when we launched it,

917
00:50:29,239 --> 00:50:31,440
Speaker 1: which is like, you know this, you know, can the

918
00:50:31,480 --> 00:50:35,160
Speaker 1: private sector actually really change? You know? Are they Are

919
00:50:35,200 --> 00:50:38,320
Speaker 1: they able to? And and here I am again talking

920
00:50:38,360 --> 00:50:41,880
Speaker 1: about private sector solutions and feeling like they can change.

921
00:50:42,080 --> 00:50:44,120
Speaker 1: But there's I wouldn't feel that way if it we

922
00:50:44,120 --> 00:50:48,279
Speaker 1: weren't in this moment, this exact moment again to your

923
00:50:48,280 --> 00:50:52,080
Speaker 1: anniversary of COVID, Looking at the job numbers, looking at

924
00:50:52,080 --> 00:50:54,200
Speaker 1: the mental health, looking at the talent wars, looking at

925
00:50:54,239 --> 00:50:56,160
Speaker 1: the great resident all of it has led to a

926
00:50:56,239 --> 00:50:59,520
Speaker 1: perfect storm where I think there's an opportunity for real change.

927
00:50:59,640 --> 00:51:03,720
Speaker 1: But yeah, I need Mary Bara, I need Vice President Harris,

928
00:51:03,920 --> 00:51:06,080
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. I need Melina de Gates.

929
00:51:06,160 --> 00:51:08,400
Speaker 1: She's supporting her work. So we got her right, But

930
00:51:08,480 --> 00:51:12,759
Speaker 1: we need women, philanthropists, women in business, women's CEOs, and

931
00:51:12,960 --> 00:51:15,839
Speaker 1: just all of us moms and working women in our

932
00:51:15,880 --> 00:51:19,879
Speaker 1: allies to stand up and say, all right, let's go like,

933
00:51:20,120 --> 00:51:23,320
Speaker 1: let's let's change and redesign work for places. Let's finish

934
00:51:23,360 --> 00:51:26,320
Speaker 1: this fight once and for all. How have you changed

935
00:51:26,480 --> 00:51:31,800
Speaker 1: your workplace and the face of this because I'm thinking, gosh,

936
00:51:32,400 --> 00:51:35,120
Speaker 1: I started a media company with my husband. Are we

937
00:51:35,200 --> 00:51:39,080
Speaker 1: doing enough to support working moms and working dads for

938
00:51:39,160 --> 00:51:42,360
Speaker 1: that matter. I mean, listen, I if you had asked

939
00:51:42,360 --> 00:51:44,080
Speaker 1: me two and a half years ago whether this is

940
00:51:44,120 --> 00:51:46,360
Speaker 1: what I'd be doing, I would have been like, no way, Katie.

941
00:51:46,400 --> 00:51:49,400
Speaker 1: I wasn't focused on this issue. Even writing Payoff, I

942
00:51:49,520 --> 00:51:52,319
Speaker 1: learned so much and I feel like I'm a well

943
00:51:52,400 --> 00:51:56,640
Speaker 1: read educated woman that I just didn't know how many

944
00:51:56,640 --> 00:51:59,560
Speaker 1: close misses, you know, how many, how many wrong turns,

945
00:51:59,600 --> 00:52:02,200
Speaker 1: how m much of this had not been focused on

946
00:52:02,480 --> 00:52:04,920
Speaker 1: in the way that we needed to in the feminist movement.

947
00:52:05,280 --> 00:52:07,040
Speaker 1: I do think that there are a lot of c

948
00:52:07,040 --> 00:52:09,600
Speaker 1: e o s, even females CEOs, who are not focused

949
00:52:09,600 --> 00:52:12,200
Speaker 1: on this issue or have not been focused on this

950
00:52:12,280 --> 00:52:16,000
Speaker 1: issue before. You know that need to be. I want

951
00:52:16,000 --> 00:52:18,640
Speaker 1: people to read this book to help them re examine

952
00:52:18,840 --> 00:52:22,080
Speaker 1: the way they have approached leadership, you know, as met as,

953
00:52:22,200 --> 00:52:25,920
Speaker 1: as managers or as CEOs or as employees and then

954
00:52:25,920 --> 00:52:29,840
Speaker 1: to say, Okay, what's the opportunity to do something different?

955
00:52:30,080 --> 00:52:33,080
Speaker 1: So instead of doing a talk about, you know, how

956
00:52:33,120 --> 00:52:35,040
Speaker 1: to get a mentor how to get a sponsor, let's

957
00:52:35,080 --> 00:52:37,319
Speaker 1: just talk about how to create gender equality in your home.

958
00:52:37,960 --> 00:52:42,120
Speaker 1: You know, like we need to have very different conversations

959
00:52:42,200 --> 00:52:47,920
Speaker 1: than we've been having in the past. Reshmashni, the book

960
00:52:48,080 --> 00:52:52,720
Speaker 1: is pay Up. And um, I'm I'm exhausted just listening

961
00:52:52,719 --> 00:52:57,359
Speaker 1: to you. H But if if moms need an advocate,

962
00:52:57,600 --> 00:53:00,719
Speaker 1: you are the perfect one. So thank you for all

963
00:53:00,760 --> 00:53:04,200
Speaker 1: your hard work and thanks for for talking to us today.

964
00:53:04,239 --> 00:53:06,399
Speaker 1: It's always great to see you, rush my mom. I'm

965
00:53:06,440 --> 00:53:09,719
Speaker 1: always full of pride after I talked to you and

966
00:53:09,920 --> 00:53:13,880
Speaker 1: and just so impressed. So thank you, Thank you, Katie,

967
00:53:14,200 --> 00:53:16,120
Speaker 1: and thank you for everything that you did to elevate

968
00:53:16,560 --> 00:53:18,560
Speaker 1: the voices of so many of us that are fighting.

969
00:53:19,000 --> 00:53:21,200
Speaker 1: You are the original energizer Bunny. Just so you know

970
00:53:21,920 --> 00:53:29,520
Speaker 1: we learned from you. Next Question with Katie Kurik is

971
00:53:29,520 --> 00:53:32,360
Speaker 1: a production of My Heart Media and Katie Kurk Media.

972
00:53:32,640 --> 00:53:36,320
Speaker 1: The executive producers are Me, Katie Curic, and Courtney Litz.

973
00:53:36,719 --> 00:53:41,640
Speaker 1: The supervising producer is Lauren Hansen. Associate producers Derek Clements

974
00:53:41,680 --> 00:53:45,359
Speaker 1: and Adrianna Fasio. The show is edited and mixed by

975
00:53:45,440 --> 00:53:49,160
Speaker 1: Derrek Clements. For more information about today's episode, or to

976
00:53:49,200 --> 00:53:51,799
Speaker 1: sign up for my morning newsletter, Wake Up Paul, go

977
00:53:51,880 --> 00:53:54,520
Speaker 1: to Katie Currek dot com. You can also find me

978
00:53:54,560 --> 00:53:58,280
Speaker 1: at Katie Curic on Instagram and all my social media channels.

979
00:53:58,680 --> 00:54:02,000
Speaker 1: For more podcasts from Heart Radio, visit the I Heart

980
00:54:02,080 --> 00:54:05,600
Speaker 1: Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you listen to your

981
00:54:05,640 --> 00:54:12,480
Speaker 1: favorite shows. H