Speaker 1: The cheerleaders at a gym in Buffalo have been recording
Speaker 1: themselves to make a new documentary where the news reporters
Speaker 1: because one year ago a mass shooting changed their lives.
Speaker 1: He just walked around shot all the black people. The
Speaker 1: cheer squad, most of whom are black, had to figure
Speaker 1: out how to go on and how to compete. I
Speaker 1: wanted to win for them more than anything this season.
Speaker 1: Listen to the embedded podcast from NPR within the iHeartRadio app,
Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Carol Fisher and
Speaker 1: I'm hosting a podcast called The Girlfriends. It's Las Vegas,
Speaker 1: it's the nineteen nineties, and it is time to find
Speaker 1: a husband. There were four Jewish doctors who were felt
Speaker 1: to be eligible bachelors. One of them was of the
Speaker 1: Baron bat On paper he was perfect, but in reality,
Speaker 1: this guy's a wacko. He shouted to the point went unconscious.
Speaker 1: I would call him and I would say, I know
Speaker 1: you killed my sister. You can listen to The girl
Speaker 1: Friends on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you
Speaker 1: get your podcasts. This is the story of a man
Speaker 1: who's fascinated me. His name was Sweet Daddy Grace, and
Speaker 1: that's a name you don't forget. He was a visionary
Speaker 1: who built a fortune as a black man during Jim
Speaker 1: Crow during the Depression, but today not many people know
Speaker 1: about him. The race sort of wiped out, and I
Speaker 1: wonder if this was done intentionally. Listen to Sweet Daddy
Speaker 1: Grace on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you
Speaker 1: get your podcasts. I'm will daily. For years, I've been
Speaker 1: on the road playing shows and seeing America through live music.
Speaker 1: This summer, I'll hit the stage. Who Season two of
Speaker 1: Sound of Our Town ten cities twelve episodes every other Thursday,
Speaker 1: we explore the live music venues and culture of a
Speaker 1: new American city. With each new episode, our tour continues
Speaker 1: into the kind of venues you want to get to
Speaker 1: when you landed in Detroit, Providence, Denver, or Seattle. Listen
Speaker 1: to Sound of Our Town on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcasts. In Pike County, the
Speaker 1: First Witnesses and the murder trial of George Wagner, the
Speaker 1: fourth took the stand. Imagine this. You go to your
Speaker 1: sister's house, to your nephew's house. You open the door
Speaker 1: and you find them shot to death in bed. It
Speaker 1: sounds medieval almost, but George Wagner, of the Fourth's lawyers
Speaker 1: disputed almost all of that. They also pointed out that
Speaker 1: their client, despite phasing eight aggravated murder charges, is not
Speaker 1: believed to have killed anyone. This is the Pikes and
Speaker 1: Massacre Returned to Pike County Season four, Episode three con
Speaker 1: Artists and Liars. I'm Courtney Armstrong, a television producer at
Speaker 1: KAT Studios, with Stephanie Ledecker and Jeff sha On the
Speaker 1: first day of the trial of George Wagner the fourth,
Speaker 1: opening statements for the prosecution clocked in at four hours.
Speaker 1: It raised some eyebrows among media and legal experts for
Speaker 1: its length and amount of detail. After a lunch break,
Speaker 1: it was time for the defense to make their case heard.
Speaker 1: The defense attorneal here is Richard Nash. Is the defense
Speaker 1: ready to give an opening statement? Yes, you may do so.
Speaker 1: It's important to note that George Wagner, the Fourth, who
Speaker 1: is currently on trial, and his father, Billy Wagner, whose
Speaker 1: trial is upcoming, have pleaded not guilty to all charges.
Speaker 1: Good afternoon, everybody. April the twenty second, twenty sixteen. George
Speaker 1: Wagner lived on Peterson Road, and that day started off
Speaker 1: like most days. Nash is in his mid forties, bald,
Speaker 1: with a beard and glasses. He wears a bright red tie.
Speaker 1: Nash jumps right into the defense's narrative of what happened
Speaker 1: in the morning after the murders. George knew he had
Speaker 1: one task that he had to do that day, and
Speaker 1: that was to disassembly building a wood shed, so to speak.
Speaker 1: That was the one thing that he had to do.
Speaker 1: But before George could take off to do that, he
Speaker 1: noticed that Jake was often that new barn up on
Speaker 1: that hill on Peterson Road. Nash is alluding to a
Speaker 1: barn that sits on a hill above where the entire
Speaker 1: Wagner family resided at the time of the murders. At
Speaker 1: that point, nothing seemed suspicious to George. H. Boll Agated
Speaker 1: was off that Jake was already up that day, and
Speaker 1: usually Jake is the second to rise. While they were
Speaker 1: headed back home to Peterson Road, Jake's cell phone went off.
Speaker 1: There the caller was Andrew Carson. Andrew Carson said hello, Jake,
Speaker 1: and there he had a conversation. That's when he thought
Speaker 1: he was the first to tell Jake that the mother
Speaker 1: of his child, Hannah, had been murdered, along with six
Speaker 1: of her relatives. Jake, according to mister Carson, put on
Speaker 1: an act worthy of an Academy Award, an act where
Speaker 1: he calmed Carson into thinking that he was the first
Speaker 1: to tell him as he wept and cried on the phone,
Speaker 1: and that as the first time George learned about murders.
Speaker 1: It's at this point the whole world becomes privy to
Speaker 1: the defense's main argument. George was not there that night
Speaker 1: and didn't know about the murderers until the next day.
Speaker 1: This is the first time we're hearing about this, let
Speaker 1: alone at his trial. The pretty bold moved by the
Speaker 1: defense to say he wasn't a period. My takeaway is
Speaker 1: that what George Wagner is attempting to do, which is
Speaker 1: a pretty interesting strategy, is remove himself from the culpability
Speaker 1: of even being aware that the murders were happening and
Speaker 1: letting them happen. And it might work. I mean, the
Speaker 1: only evidence that we know of that the prosecution has
Speaker 1: is the shoeprint. As we know, there's nothing really tying
Speaker 1: George Wagner to the Rodan murders, the Knight of the murders,
Speaker 1: and this is a plausible workaround that the defense has
Speaker 1: come up with or is possibly the truth. We don't
Speaker 1: know if that's yet to be proven. But wouldn't that
Speaker 1: completely discount what his brother Jake Wagner is saying. It
Speaker 1: would staff, But what I think George Wagner is doing
Speaker 1: is thinking about his own safety at this point. He's
Speaker 1: not worried about what Jake's plea deal is or what
Speaker 1: angel Is plea deal. He's worried about himself. What a
Speaker 1: showdown that's actually going to be when you take this
Speaker 1: part into account as well. So for the first time,
Speaker 1: George Wagner is going to see his brother, Jake Wagner,
Speaker 1: but they're also going to completely disagree on the story.
Speaker 1: Shakespeare couldn't have written this better himself. I mean, we've
Speaker 1: heard how close these two brothers were for years growing up,
Speaker 1: that they stood by each other, that they protected one another.
Speaker 1: Now this contradictory story is really going to play out
Speaker 1: in court. And you know, we've been wrong before in
Speaker 1: terms of what our theories are, what we think, But
Speaker 1: I have a hard time wrapping my head around the
Speaker 1: idea that George Wagner did not know about these murders.
Speaker 1: Here's reporter Annette Levy. I think it's interesting that they
Speaker 1: say that George wasn't even there, and I guess they
Speaker 1: have to write because if he's there, he's going down
Speaker 1: for aggravated murder, So they can't concede that point to
Speaker 1: the state. But they've talked about in a pre trial
Speaker 1: motion in the past that Jake said that George went
Speaker 1: along at the last minute because he feared that Billy
Speaker 1: might kill Jake at the end of the night. They've
Speaker 1: quoted Jake as saying that local journalist James Pilcher was
Speaker 1: also in the courtroom. The defense is clearly stating that
Speaker 1: George wasn't there, that the first he heard about the
Speaker 1: murders was the next morning, and that Jake had gotten
Speaker 1: up before him and was getting rid of the evidence
Speaker 1: that morning before he even got up, And that was
Speaker 1: surprising to me that they would play that gambit. But
Speaker 1: really really hammering on the fact that there is absolutely
Speaker 1: not one shred of physical evidence specifically tying George Wagner
Speaker 1: to the scene of the crimes or that he killed anybody.
Speaker 1: So they are going to leverage that as much as possible.
Speaker 1: As this strag goes on, it's clear at this point
Speaker 1: that the defense is going all in against the rest
Speaker 1: of the Wagner family. Nash continues to separate George from
Speaker 1: his relatives. After some time, BCI had narrowed down who
Speaker 1: they felt were suspects. In fact, it's worthy to note
Speaker 1: that BCI had interviewed Jake Wagner four times. BCI, conducting
Speaker 1: their investigation, also felt it was important that they interviewed
Speaker 1: Angela Wagner. The third person that they felt that was
Speaker 1: important to talk to in the Wagner household was Billy Wagner.
Speaker 1: George was right there. Not once did they ever ask
Speaker 1: to speak with George. Earlier that day. During the prosecution's
Speaker 1: opening statement, Angie Kneppa revealed that authorities kept tabs on
Speaker 1: the Wagners before their arrests, even when they were in Alaska.
Speaker 1: When the family decided to come back to Ohio, investigators
Speaker 1: were waiting for them at the US Canadian Board. Imagine,
Speaker 1: if you will, four individuals being surprised at a Montana order,
Speaker 1: agents putting them in separate rooms, and BCI walking in
Speaker 1: and questioning them first. Billy gives in the vehicle. He's
Speaker 1: released first, and then Angela gets in the vehicle. Not
Speaker 1: a word, not a word about, oh my gosh, can
Speaker 1: you believe that happened? What they think we did this?
Speaker 1: No conversation like that at all, no conversation at all
Speaker 1: about what just happened. We find out later that there's
Speaker 1: a reason for that, because Billy had told them, you know,
Speaker 1: be quiet. The defense tells its side of the story.
Speaker 1: We had special agents who had four different rooms where
Speaker 1: they spoke with all four family members, and George had
Speaker 1: an agent there speaking with him, Special agents and Pagan
Speaker 1: and he told George, your family has big problem. George,
Speaker 1: do you want to be a witness or do you
Speaker 1: want to be a sessment? Here again. James Pilcher, he
Speaker 1: was being questioned by the BCI when they came across
Speaker 1: the border in Montana, and he said, yeah, he had
Speaker 1: problems with his family, but he never knew them to
Speaker 1: be violent. He couldn't believe it. He couldn't believe they
Speaker 1: would kill somebody. And he's at nine. Special Prosecutor Angie
Speaker 1: Kaneppa objects and she and defense Attorney Nash approached the
Speaker 1: bench and huddle with Judge Deering. It is very highly
Speaker 1: unusual that the prosecution would interrupt somebody just five minutes
Speaker 1: into their opening statement. And at that point they went
Speaker 1: to the bench and argued for two minutes, and then
Speaker 1: went back into chambers and argued for another eight to
Speaker 1: nine minutes. And then the judge says, you know, opening
Speaker 1: statements amount evidence. So clearly the prosecution was trying to say,
Speaker 1: he's throwing this out there and he doesn't envy proof
Speaker 1: for it, and he needs to be called out. You
Speaker 1: might continue your older state, Thank you, judge. So back
Speaker 1: to that interview room with Special Agent Hageman, he had
Speaker 1: just a few statements to make. Then he said, if
Speaker 1: I don't know who did it, then you all go
Speaker 1: down for conspiracy. And so Hageman never received any information.
Speaker 1: And here George says, if I don't hear who did it,
Speaker 1: you all go down for conspiracy. This is a trial
Speaker 1: about the state of Ohio against George Wager. It's not
Speaker 1: the Wagners. It's not Billy Wager. It's not Angela Wagner,
Speaker 1: nor is it Jake Wacker. This is all about George.
Speaker 1: There are certain things in life that we can't control.
Speaker 1: One of those things is our birth name. Unfortunately George
Speaker 1: cannot help that he's a wagon, but that doesn't make
Speaker 1: him a murder. They are clearly relying on the fact
Speaker 1: that the prosecution has burden of proof here. They can
Speaker 1: just play defense and swat away anything or that they
Speaker 1: can sit there and say, well, George didn't know anything,
Speaker 1: and how can you prove it. George gets more animated
Speaker 1: as his attorney speaks, making eye contact with the cherry.
Speaker 1: The media outside the courthouse is quick to comment and
Speaker 1: what the defense has really done well out is really
Speaker 1: trying to paint George as an individual, an individual who
Speaker 1: happened to be part of a family who had kind
Speaker 1: of a sortid pass and a pass with corruption and
Speaker 1: other criminal behavior. But their argument essentially is just because
Speaker 1: his family is this way doesn't mean that he's this way,
Speaker 1: and it certainly doesn't make him a murderer. As you
Speaker 1: hear the evidence in this case, there's five things I
Speaker 1: want you to pay attention to. The first is going
Speaker 1: to be what Jake says. Jake will tell you that
Speaker 1: George had nothing to do with the plan of these murders.
Speaker 1: Jake will tell you that George shot no one. Jake
Speaker 1: will tell you that George did nothing to destroy any evidence,
Speaker 1: is clearly planning the finger at Jake and Angela and Billy,
Speaker 1: and that George had nothing to do with it. So
Speaker 1: do they just change their story because now they've seen
Speaker 1: all of the evidence and are just sort of making
Speaker 1: a strategy switch. Yeah, I think so. And I think
Speaker 1: what they're gonna do is just call the credibility Jake
Speaker 1: and Angela, because that's what this case relies on. The
Speaker 1: second thing that I want you to pay attention to
Speaker 1: will be the credibility of Angela and Jake. The third
Speaker 1: thing that I want you to pay attention to is
Speaker 1: the incentives that were offered by the State of Ohio
Speaker 1: for such hing as crimes to Angela and Jake to
Speaker 1: get them to talk, to get them to tell a story.
Speaker 1: This is a family of con artists, liars, and deeds.
Speaker 1: He says that in the or and that Jake became
Speaker 1: the vessel for all of that and George was not
Speaker 1: like them. George wanted to get away from them, and
Speaker 1: it's up to the prosecution to providings. That second thing
Speaker 1: I wanted to talk to you about is Jake and Angela,
Speaker 1: who are con artists and liars, We've already touched on
Speaker 1: it some. But Angela is the con artist through and through.
Speaker 1: That's who the state has is the key witness, con
Speaker 1: artists and liars. Clearly, the defensive strategy is going to
Speaker 1: be these people are liars. You can't believe a thing
Speaker 1: they said. They've lied before. What makes you think they're
Speaker 1: not lying now? The cohan didn't stop, then it's continued.
Speaker 1: It's who they are. They've conned the state of Ohio
Speaker 1: into the most heinous crime, into a thirty year sentence,
Speaker 1: in a sentence most deserving of death, he escapes with life.
Speaker 1: The plea deal is what I'm speaking of. In order
Speaker 1: to avoid the death penalty, they must implicate George. We're
Speaker 1: going to take a break. We'll be back in a moment. Oh.
Speaker 1: I'm Carol Fisher and I'm hosting a podcast called The
Speaker 1: Girl Friends. Back in the nineteen nineties in Las Vegas,
Speaker 1: a few of us dated the most eligible bachelor in town, Bob.
Speaker 1: He spoke several languages, he did medical missionary work, and
Speaker 1: he was Jewish. He was perfect on paper, but he wasn't.
Speaker 1: He really wasn't. He shouted and to the point she
Speaker 1: went unconscious. Bob could lie about anything, but only takes
Speaker 1: the one time when somebody ends up dead. Unfortunately for Bob,
Speaker 1: us girlfriends know how to fight back. I wanted him
Speaker 1: to pay for his crime. He needed to be put
Speaker 1: to justice. I'll be honest with you. If I saw
Speaker 1: him right now, I'd spit on him. I would call
Speaker 1: him and I would say, I know you killed my sister.
Speaker 1: I will always hound you and haunt you. You can
Speaker 1: listen to the Girlfriends on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts,
Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcasts from iHeart podcasts. Whitney
Speaker 1: hell is going on here. Everyone has their limits. I'd
Speaker 1: never confronted a situation like this. I just thought it
Speaker 1: was just a really terrible immoral thing, a line they
Speaker 1: won't cross. I was stunned, and I just said, no,
Speaker 1: we're killing people. You may never have to face that
Speaker 1: decision when you find yourself at that line. Thou its ricin,
Speaker 1: art ricin, and somebody needs to just for once give
Speaker 1: everybody the whole truth. This is evil, and the only
Speaker 1: person who can sound the alarm is you. I wasn't
Speaker 1: just going to sit silently. Buy from iHeart podcasts. These
Speaker 1: are the whistleblowers. If you are disloyal. Things are going
Speaker 1: to happen to this week out disgrace through our gun.
Speaker 1: Evil play should be prosecute. When power corrupts, conscience is
Speaker 1: the last line of defense. I'm Miles Taylor. Listen to
Speaker 1: the Whistleblowers on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever
Speaker 1: you get your podcasts. My name's Laverne Cox. I'm an actress, producer, fashionista,
Speaker 1: and host of The Laverne Cox Show. You may remember
Speaker 1: my award winning first season. I've been pretty busy. There's
Speaker 1: always time to touch incredible guests about important things people
Speaker 1: like me have been screaming for years. We've got to
Speaker 1: watch the Supreme Court. What they're doing is wrong, what
Speaker 1: they're doing is evil. They will take things away, and
Speaker 1: I can only hope that Dobbs, is that like Pearl Harbor,
Speaker 1: moment gro You and I both know what it took
Speaker 1: to just get through the day in New York City
Speaker 1: and get home in one piece. And so the fact
Speaker 1: that we're here and what you've achieved and what I've achieved,
Speaker 1: you know, that's momentous. It's not just sitting around complaining
Speaker 1: about some bills. The only reason that you might think
Speaker 1: as Chase said that we're always miserable is because people
Speaker 1: are constantly attacking us and we're constantly noticing it. Listen
Speaker 1: to the Laverne Cox Show on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast,
Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcast. Be sure to subscribe
Speaker 1: and share. Have you ever covered a carpet staining with
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Speaker 1: and start caring for your home the easier way. As
Speaker 1: nashleys into the rest of the Wagners, George listens with
Speaker 1: a hint of sadness on his face. Going back to
Speaker 1: the morning after the murders, the defense lays out their story.
Speaker 1: According to Nash, Jake was in the barn destroying cell phones,
Speaker 1: burning clothes, and breaking down the silencers and weapons used
Speaker 1: in the murders. There's no physical evidence George was at
Speaker 1: any of those murder scenes. There's no DNA, there's no prints,
Speaker 1: and bci knew he had no motive. Outside the courtroom,
Speaker 1: Mike Allen comments, sure, she seems like it's a strong
Speaker 1: case for the state, But you know, the defense, I
Speaker 1: don't think they'd be taken this to trial unless they
Speaker 1: thought they had something. So it's going to be interesting
Speaker 1: to see again two of the family members plat out
Speaker 1: too to give people backstory. That's correct to clat out.
Speaker 1: I think the states loaded for bear, But again, we
Speaker 1: just don't know what the defense strategy is. It's going
Speaker 1: to be interesting to see The defense closes by once
Speaker 1: again highlighting the character differences between their client, George Wagner
Speaker 1: the fourth and the rest of the Wagner family. The
Speaker 1: last thing I want to tell you about is George
Speaker 1: is not like his mother, his father, or as a brother.
Speaker 1: He's different from them. George disagreed with the way that
Speaker 1: his family lived their life. He disagreed with them so
Speaker 1: much he actually engaged in physical fistfights with his father.
Speaker 1: George disliked the way that that family functions so much
Speaker 1: he was not part of them. That as soon as
Speaker 1: he could leave that home. As soon as he got
Speaker 1: his driver's license when he was sixteen years old, he left.
Speaker 1: He ran away George's like the most sixteen year olds,
Speaker 1: couldn't make it at sixteen, so unfortunately he had to
Speaker 1: come back home. We believe the evidence will show that
Speaker 1: George could not have committed these murdys, and it goes further.
Speaker 1: We believe the evidence will show that Jake in fact
Speaker 1: killed all eight, but he had to implicate his father
Speaker 1: in actually killing somebody. But the evidence will show that
Speaker 1: Jake killed always. We've heard mixed things about George over
Speaker 1: the years, but we also have heard that he was
Speaker 1: just very loved and had close friendships, had very close relationships.
Speaker 1: I go back to our interview with Chris Newcome, who
Speaker 1: was Angela Wagner's half brother, and he grew up very
Speaker 1: close with Jake and George, and he explained to us
Speaker 1: he felt completely betrayed by George, specifically because he considered
Speaker 1: him more like a brother than anything else, and he
Speaker 1: couldn't possibly imagine that he would have had anything to
Speaker 1: do with this more than any of the other family members.
Speaker 1: And so I guess, I mean, is it possible that
Speaker 1: George didn't do this and he's been roped into this
Speaker 1: awful crime by his family who was scheming to kind
Speaker 1: of bring him down with them. Either that or he's
Speaker 1: a really good liar. This is the outline, your bullet points.
Speaker 1: You're going to see this, this, and this. Now. The
Speaker 1: prosecution obviously when much longer, they have a much gunch,
Speaker 1: bigger case. They have all this evidence that they've been
Speaker 1: gathering for four years and not been able to present anybody,
Speaker 1: and so they just dumped it all over the jury.
Speaker 1: Knowing what we know now about the opening statements in
Speaker 1: what has been said, is it becoming possible that he
Speaker 1: could walk free or does that still seem completely impossible?
Speaker 1: It depends on how believable the jury finds Jake and Angela.
Speaker 1: Is it possible that he walks free? Absolutely as possible.
Speaker 1: You never can tell. The next morning, witness testimony begins.
Speaker 1: First up is victim Dana Roden's sister Bobby Joe Manley.
Speaker 1: Bobby Manly and a friend found the first two victims,
Speaker 1: Chris Roden Senior and his cousin Gary. That discovery was
Speaker 1: quickly followed by this English nine one one call, which
Speaker 1: was played for the jury. Nine one yes, Yes, forty seven,
Speaker 1: seventy forty seventy seven, forty seventy seven. Okay fourtyero seven
Speaker 1: seventy emil correct, Yes, that's for you than man going on.
Speaker 1: There's blood all over the house. Okay, my brother in lawson,
Speaker 1: I'll be the hell them. Okay, what's your brother in
Speaker 1: law's name? Chris Roden and Harry Roden, Frank and Garry
Speaker 1: Road start times and it looks like the Dad, I
Speaker 1: think they're both dead. I thank the breath. Dad. Let's
Speaker 1: our phone has pop out of Okay, there anybody else
Speaker 1: from the house. I don't know us. Okay, so door
Speaker 1: was awfull. We got here, but I haven't went in
Speaker 1: and hit her running on the floor and out. Okay,
Speaker 1: enough starts like now, okay to stay out of the house.
Speaker 1: Don't let anybody go in there playing. Yeah, all right,
Speaker 1: we got deputing home. They okay, I thank you. I
Speaker 1: think it's always just worth mentioning. So many listeners reach
Speaker 1: out on a regular basis giving us tips, and we
Speaker 1: take every one of them seriously and do our very
Speaker 1: best to go down the rabbit hole on each of them.
Speaker 1: We've also had listeners reach out to say they thought
Speaker 1: they heard something for example, and the nine one call,
Speaker 1: was there something else in the background that maybe we
Speaker 1: hadn't covered before, And we did look into that, for example,
Speaker 1: and ultimately we weren't able to hear anything that wasn't
Speaker 1: already reported about anything that listeners ond us. We put
Speaker 1: through a very strict filter of whether or not it's
Speaker 1: worth sharing on this platform. We don't want to share
Speaker 1: any rumors or any mistruths because we know how toxic
Speaker 1: that can be for the family. But yeah, we always
Speaker 1: encourage our listeners to share and interact with the shop.
Speaker 1: After finding Chris Roden Senior and Gary Rodin, Manly told
Speaker 1: Kenepa she and her friend checked another trailer nearby and
Speaker 1: found the bullet riddled bodies of Frankie Rodin and his
Speaker 1: fiance Hannah Gilly. Mercifully, a baby boy whom Hannah Gilly
Speaker 1: was likely nursing at the time survived, as would be expected.
Speaker 1: Bobby Joe still feels the trauma of that day. Lassie's
Speaker 1: and Jeff spoke with her niece who was very close
Speaker 1: to Hanna. Me Rodendamy and Hannah were only like six
Speaker 1: months and fourtune days apart, So you guys grew up together.
Speaker 1: I leave you roped Togevery is pretty close her and
Speaker 1: my little brother was close to him, and Christopher wasn't
Speaker 1: very far apart either. When it first happened, like we
Speaker 1: was all really close with each other. And after the
Speaker 1: years started going out. The only other time we gather
Speaker 1: is like when we want to do like a release
Speaker 1: or a candlelighting for another year of them being dead.
Speaker 1: I used to hang out a lot with Bobby Joe,
Speaker 1: but like after everything happened, she just like completely changed.
Speaker 1: When Bobby Joe takes the stand as the first witness
Speaker 1: in the trial of George Wagner the fourth there is
Speaker 1: no camera coverage. You know, a lot of people were
Speaker 1: watching the live stream, a lot of questions why was that?
Speaker 1: Why did that happen? Yeah, frustrating for people watching from home,
Speaker 1: frustrating for all of us covering the trial as well.
Speaker 1: It's because of an order from Judge Deering here that
Speaker 1: allows witnesses to either opt in or opt out. They
Speaker 1: can decide they don't want to be broadcasting that's video
Speaker 1: or audio. We fought it, but the judge has ruled
Speaker 1: officially before this trial started that that's the way it
Speaker 1: is going to be Bobby Joe Manly tells her story
Speaker 1: to the jury, the media furiously taking notes in lieu
Speaker 1: of the camera feed. Bobby Joe, the youngest Manly sibling,
Speaker 1: was the first to find the bodies. Chris was Dana's
Speaker 1: ex husband. Bobby Joe and a friend, Billy Morgan, found
Speaker 1: a trail of blood leading to the bedroom. Chris and
Speaker 1: his cousin Gary were dead on the floor, covered by
Speaker 1: a comfiter. The prosecution also showed the jury photos from
Speaker 1: inside the trailers of Chris, Senior, Frankie, and Dana Rodin,
Speaker 1: including where the Wagner family is accused of dragging Chris's
Speaker 1: body back to his bedroom. There are three photos shown
Speaker 1: to the jury. The first is pointing back from the
Speaker 1: living room towards a cracked open front door. There's a
Speaker 1: vacuum and a child's play chair in the corner. On
Speaker 1: the couch are two camouflaged jackets. Kids shoes are strewn
Speaker 1: about the floor. There's a stick on logo next to
Speaker 1: the front door that says simply family. Another photo shows
Speaker 1: what looks to be a kid's room with a crib.
Speaker 1: The final photo is of a recliner in what looks
Speaker 1: to be the living room. There's a one foot wide
Speaker 1: streak of blood running from the base of the chair
Speaker 1: across the floor to somewhere else in the house. Anjeanette
Speaker 1: Levy was in the courtroom for the first morning of
Speaker 1: testimony for Bobby Joe being on the stand. I thought
Speaker 1: she did a really good job recalling some really horrific
Speaker 1: events in her life, getting up there and testifying to
Speaker 1: these really awful things that have happened to their family
Speaker 1: and finding them and all of the things that they saw.
Speaker 1: Also on the stand today was a Pike County deputy
Speaker 1: who responded to the scene. In fact, they got flagged
Speaker 1: down by Bobby Joe outside of Frankie Rodin and Hannah
Speaker 1: Hazel Gilly's house. I don't think anybody really wants to
Speaker 1: do that. When you're in public service, it's your job,
Speaker 1: and this is the biggest murder case in Ohio history.
Speaker 1: I'm so mad about this whole opting out crap, Like,
Speaker 1: if these family members can get up there talk about
Speaker 1: these awful things, as it's somebody paid by the taxpayers,
Speaker 1: you should be able to get up there too and
Speaker 1: show your face and talk about this. It's one thing
Speaker 1: to be fearful if you fear retribution. I can understand
Speaker 1: being scared. In this case, I understand Bobby Joe Manley.
Speaker 1: She seems like a very quiet person. I get that.
Speaker 1: When you have people in public service opting out, what
Speaker 1: message does that send? It also doesn't send a good message.
Speaker 1: When this is a an area that sees a lot
Speaker 1: of police corruption, or at least has seen a lot
Speaker 1: of police corruption, you would think you'd want to get
Speaker 1: up there and take a stand and say, you know what,
Speaker 1: this is the process, this is the accountability we can offer,
Speaker 1: and it's been done right, and we aren't going to
Speaker 1: allow this type of thing to happen in our community.
Speaker 1: Dana Rodin and Bobby Joe Manley's brother, James Manley, does
Speaker 1: not opt out. His testimony gives us the first word
Speaker 1: for word account of what happened that morning from the
Speaker 1: perspective of the surviving members of the Rodent family. His
Speaker 1: words are few, good afternoon, How are you all right? Okay?
Speaker 1: Can you please state your name for the record and
Speaker 1: spell your last name? James okay? Okay? And mister Manley,
Speaker 1: how old are you? Forty six? Okay? James Manly has
Speaker 1: a beard and wears a black shirt. He sits back
Speaker 1: in his chair near the wall manly largely answers ange
Speaker 1: Geneppa's questions with one or two word answers. I know
Speaker 1: this witness isn't showing much emotion right now here on
Speaker 1: the stand. However, I can't imagine what it would be
Speaker 1: like to come upon that crime scene and see all
Speaker 1: of that. I think he's amazingly composed in that he's
Speaker 1: describing probably the most horrific day of his life. And
Speaker 1: to ask him to go through that step by step
Speaker 1: without breaking down, without being emotional, I think he's doing
Speaker 1: a really good job. This prosect, I think can do
Speaker 1: a better job helping that witness paint that awful picture
Speaker 1: for the jury. If you have a witness that isn't
Speaker 1: as talkative as other people might be, the onus is
Speaker 1: on the prosecutor to then kind of get as close
Speaker 1: to a leading question as you can get, or as
Speaker 1: the judge might allow, because you're just not going to
Speaker 1: get it from the witness. Let's stop here for another break. Oh.
Speaker 1: I'm Carol Fisher, and I'm hosting a podcast called The Girlfriends.
Speaker 1: Back in the nineteen nineties in Las Vegas, a few
Speaker 1: of us dated the most eligible bachelor in town. Bob
Speaker 1: he spoke several languages, he did medical missionary work, and
Speaker 1: he was Jewish. He was perfect on paper, but he wasn't.
Speaker 1: He really wasn't hoped and to the point she went unconscious.
Speaker 1: Bob could lie about anything, but only takes the one
Speaker 1: time when somebody ends up dead. Unfortunately for Bob, us
Speaker 1: girlfriends know how to fight back. I wanted him to
Speaker 1: pay for his crime. He needed to be put to justice.
Speaker 1: I'll be honest with you. If I saw him right now,
Speaker 1: I'd spit on him. I would call him and I
Speaker 1: would say, I know you killed my sister. I will
Speaker 1: always hound you and haunt you. You can listen to
Speaker 1: the girl Friends on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or
Speaker 1: wherever you get your podcasts from iHeart podcasts. Whitney hell
Speaker 1: is going on here. Everyone has their limits. I'd never
Speaker 1: confronted a situation like this. I just thought it was
Speaker 1: just a really terrible, immoral thing, a line they won't cross.
Speaker 1: I was stunned, and I just said, no, we're killing people.
Speaker 1: You may never have to face that decision when you
Speaker 1: find yourself at that lineouts ricin Orn's Ricin and somebody
Speaker 1: needs to just for once give everybody the whole truth,
Speaker 1: like this is evil and the only person who can
Speaker 1: sound the alarm is you. I wasn't just gonna sit silently.
Speaker 1: Buy from iHeart Podcasts. These are the whistleblowers. If you
Speaker 1: are disloyal, things are going to happen to speak out
Speaker 1: disgrace to our cut. Evil should be prosecuted when power corrupts.
Speaker 1: Conscience is the last line of defense. I'm Miles Taylor.
Speaker 1: Listen to the Whistleblowers on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcasts. My name's Laverne Cox.
Speaker 1: I'm an actress, producer, fashionista, and host of The Laverne
Speaker 1: Cox Show. You may remember my award winning first season.
Speaker 1: I've been pretty busy. There's always time to touch incredible
Speaker 1: guests about important things people like me have been screaming
Speaker 1: for years. We've got to watch the Supreme Court. What
Speaker 1: they're doing is wrong, what they're doing is evil. They
Speaker 1: will take things away and I can only hope that
Speaker 1: Dobbs is that like Pearl Harbor moment, gro You and
Speaker 1: I both know what it to just get through the
Speaker 1: day in New York City and get home in one piece.
Speaker 1: And so the fact that we're here and what you've
Speaker 1: achieved and what I've achieved, you know, that's momentous. It's
Speaker 1: not just sitting around complaining about some bills. The only
Speaker 1: reason that you might think, as Chase said, that we're
Speaker 1: always miserable is because people are constantly attacking us and
Speaker 1: we're constantly noticing it. Listen to The Verne Cock Show
Speaker 1: on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast or wherever you get
Speaker 1: your podcast. Be sure to subscribe and share. Hello and
Speaker 1: welcome to Bad Manners. This is the podcast that takes
Speaker 1: you inside Britain's stately homes and tells all the tales
Speaker 1: the guide books don't. My name is Tom Horton and
Speaker 1: I'll be your host. Britain is riddled with the big houses,
Speaker 1: from crumbling castles, massive mansions and stately piles bigger than
Speaker 1: Buck Palace. As a comedian, I'm not really bothered about
Speaker 1: the facts and figures. I just want the juicy stuff.
Speaker 1: So I'm on a mission to find out the frightening,
Speaker 1: filthy and downright jaw dropping stories of these stately homes
Speaker 1: and the people in him. This podcast ventures deep inside
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Speaker 1: So if you want to get historically horrid, royally raucus
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Speaker 1: Manners on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you
Speaker 1: get your podcasts. Andrew Kneppa coax is more information out
Speaker 1: of James Manley, the only son in a family of
Speaker 1: three sisters. He uses the present tense to describe sister
Speaker 1: Cathy and the past tense to speak about his late
Speaker 1: sister Diana Roden. No white, Dad took off find her
Speaker 1: something was wrong and then what did you do? Jumped
Speaker 1: in what's up? And followed him up to and where
Speaker 1: did you go? Frankie has okay. When he gets there,
Speaker 1: he finds Bobby Joe Manley distraught holding Hannah Hazel, Gilly
Speaker 1: and Frankie Roden's baby. Ask her what can Hael happen? Okay,
Speaker 1: you asked, Bobby Joe. Bobby Joe breaks the news to
Speaker 1: her brother James about the four murders. Manly enters Frankie
Speaker 1: and Hannah Hazel's house. Can you describe what you saw?
Speaker 1: Blood everywhere? You said blood everywhere, okay? And when you
Speaker 1: say blood everywhere, can you tell us where specifics? On
Speaker 1: the body on the bed, on the walls. Frankie Rodin
Speaker 1: and his fiance Hannah Hazel Gilly dead in bed. Hazel
Speaker 1: had been nursing. They're months old son at the time.
Speaker 1: James Manly then drove to his sister Dana's house down
Speaker 1: the road to tell her her son was dead. After
Speaker 1: you knocked on the door and it opened, What did
Speaker 1: you do? Put you out of her name? Then? What happened? Live?
Speaker 1: Kept you on her name? What dirt bedsum? At this point,
Speaker 1: Manly is showing emotion. His face is flushed as he
Speaker 1: describes finding his sister Dana Roden's room is dark. He
Speaker 1: feels along the foot of her bed and touches her foot.
Speaker 1: He tries to wake her up. Man toward her head.
Speaker 1: And when you got to where you thought her head was,
Speaker 1: what did you do? And I felt like a pillow
Speaker 1: of her head. I started picked a pillow up, and
Speaker 1: you feel like stuck. So you started lifting up the pillow,
Speaker 1: but you could feel that it was sticking, yeah, or
Speaker 1: it was stuck. Yeah, okay, And you said then you
Speaker 1: ran out of the house or when I just turned
Speaker 1: around and walked back out? Okay? And why did you
Speaker 1: do that? Like, what did you think because there did okay?
Speaker 1: What made you think that? Cause bred pillow stuff? Did
Speaker 1: you hear anything in the house? He could hear his niece,
Speaker 1: Hannah May Rowden's new baby crying in another room. He
Speaker 1: just couldn't bring himself to look. She was dead there too,
Speaker 1: her brother Chris Junior dead and yet another room. The
Speaker 1: final testimony of day one is from Justin Wearing. He's
Speaker 1: one of the EMT drivers who gets to Frankie and
Speaker 1: Hannah Hazel's house shortly after James Manley does. When he arrives,
Speaker 1: he sees kids in the yard. There were two. There
Speaker 1: was a young child that was probably four or five
Speaker 1: years old that was running around in the yard. And
Speaker 1: then there was a infant child who was around six
Speaker 1: months old. And did you notice anything unusual about the infant?
Speaker 1: The infant was covered with blood. His vibra was saturated
Speaker 1: with blood. Images of an infant covered in the blood
Speaker 1: of his family are difficult to comprehend for everyone in
Speaker 1: the courtroom. This is only the beginning of a long,
Speaker 1: dark journey full of the horrific details of what happened
Speaker 1: that night in Pike County. We are also getting a
Speaker 1: first look at the crime scenes in the Pike County massacre,
Speaker 1: and we want to warn you some of the images
Speaker 1: are disturbing. We don't really know the full scope of
Speaker 1: what the Rodent family faced. Does the prosecution hold back
Speaker 1: any level of violence or the gore of that, or
Speaker 1: do they just put it all out there for them
Speaker 1: to see. Can you imagine the level of grief and
Speaker 1: despair they have to sit there and look at these
Speaker 1: autopsy photos. One of the issues, for instance, will be
Speaker 1: ranged a fire. You know, how far was it from
Speaker 1: the end of the muzzle to a bullet hole in
Speaker 1: the forehead. I don't know that people can fully fathom
Speaker 1: what went on in those molds. It's monboggle. More on
Speaker 1: that next time. For more information on the case and
Speaker 1: relevant photos, follow us on Instagram at Katie Underscore Studios.
Speaker 1: The Piked and Masker is produced by Stephanie Lydecker, Jeff Shane,
Speaker 1: Chris Graves, Scott de Graw, Andrew Arnow and me Courtney Armstrong.
Speaker 1: Editing and sound designed by Jeff Tua. Music by Jared Aston.
Speaker 1: The Piked and Masker is a production of iHeartRadio and
Speaker 1: Katie Studios. For more podcasts from my Heart Radio, visit
Speaker 1: the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you
Speaker 1: listen to your favorite shows. I'm Carol Fisher and I'm
Speaker 1: hosting a podcast called The girl Friends. It's Las Vegas,
Speaker 1: it's the nineteen nineties, and it is time to find
Speaker 1: a husband. There were four Jewish doctors who were felt
Speaker 1: to be eligible bachelors. One of them was the spot Barrenmount.
Speaker 1: On paper, he was perfect, but in reality, this guy's
Speaker 1: a wacko. He choked and to the point she went unconscious.
Speaker 1: I would call him and I would say, I know
Speaker 1: you killed my sister. You can listen to the Girlfriends
Speaker 1: on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get
Speaker 1: your podcasts. I'm will daily. For years, I've been on
Speaker 1: the road playing shows and seeing America through live music.
Speaker 1: This summer, I'll hit the stage. Who Season two of
Speaker 1: Sound of Our Town ten Cities twelve episodes every other Thursday.
Speaker 1: We explore the live music venues and culture of a
Speaker 1: new American city. With each new episode, our tour continues
Speaker 1: into the kind of venues you want to get to
Speaker 1: when you landed in Detroit, Providence, Denver or Seattle. Listen
Speaker 1: to Sound of Our Town on the iHeartRadio app, Apple
Speaker 1: Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. This is the
Speaker 1: story of a man who's fascinated me. His name was
Speaker 1: Sweet Daddy Grace, and that's a name you don't forget.
Speaker 1: He was a visionary who built a fortune as a
Speaker 1: black man during Jim Crow during the Depression. But today
Speaker 1: not many people know about him. The race sort of
Speaker 1: wiped out, and I wonder if this was done intentionally.
Speaker 1: Listen to Sweet Daddy Grace on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, I'm free, Are
Speaker 1: and I'm rthy. We have spent the last twenty years
Speaker 1: building and working at some of the largest companies in
Speaker 1: the world. We worked with some remarkable people, Rob mclenny.
Speaker 1: When I see the people of Wrexham, I grew up
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Speaker 1: That is a R D HI and s R I
Speaker 1: R A M show. Listen to the Art Instree Arm
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