1 00:00:00,400 --> 00:00:03,920 Speaker 1: The cheerleaders at a gym in Buffalo have been recording 2 00:00:03,960 --> 00:00:09,240 Speaker 1: themselves to make a new documentary where the news reporters 3 00:00:09,240 --> 00:00:13,160 Speaker 1: because one year ago a mass shooting changed their lives. 4 00:00:13,200 --> 00:00:15,400 Speaker 1: He just walked around shot all the black people. The 5 00:00:15,480 --> 00:00:18,440 Speaker 1: cheer squad, most of whom are black, had to figure 6 00:00:18,480 --> 00:00:21,160 Speaker 1: out how to go on and how to compete. I 7 00:00:21,280 --> 00:00:23,840 Speaker 1: wanted to win for them more than anything this season. 8 00:00:24,000 --> 00:00:28,640 Speaker 1: Listen to the embedded podcast from NPR within the iHeartRadio app, 9 00:00:28,800 --> 00:00:32,720 Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Carol Fisher and 10 00:00:32,760 --> 00:00:36,800 Speaker 1: I'm hosting a podcast called The Girlfriends. It's Las Vegas, 11 00:00:36,960 --> 00:00:40,200 Speaker 1: it's the nineteen nineties, and it is time to find 12 00:00:40,240 --> 00:00:44,560 Speaker 1: a husband. There were four Jewish doctors who were felt 13 00:00:44,600 --> 00:00:48,040 Speaker 1: to be eligible bachelors. One of them was of the 14 00:00:48,640 --> 00:00:53,239 Speaker 1: Baron bat On paper he was perfect, but in reality, 15 00:00:53,440 --> 00:00:58,080 Speaker 1: this guy's a wacko. He shouted to the point went unconscious. 16 00:00:58,280 --> 00:01:00,560 Speaker 1: I would call him and I would say, I know 17 00:01:00,600 --> 00:01:03,080 Speaker 1: you killed my sister. You can listen to The girl 18 00:01:03,160 --> 00:01:07,440 Speaker 1: Friends on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you 19 00:01:07,480 --> 00:01:10,479 Speaker 1: get your podcasts. This is the story of a man 20 00:01:10,560 --> 00:01:15,000 Speaker 1: who's fascinated me. His name was Sweet Daddy Grace, and 21 00:01:15,040 --> 00:01:18,319 Speaker 1: that's a name you don't forget. He was a visionary 22 00:01:18,400 --> 00:01:21,399 Speaker 1: who built a fortune as a black man during Jim 23 00:01:21,480 --> 00:01:25,800 Speaker 1: Crow during the Depression, but today not many people know 24 00:01:25,840 --> 00:01:28,920 Speaker 1: about him. The race sort of wiped out, and I 25 00:01:29,000 --> 00:01:33,000 Speaker 1: wonder if this was done intentionally. Listen to Sweet Daddy 26 00:01:33,040 --> 00:01:36,720 Speaker 1: Grace on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you 27 00:01:36,760 --> 00:01:41,120 Speaker 1: get your podcasts. I'm will daily. For years, I've been 28 00:01:41,160 --> 00:01:43,880 Speaker 1: on the road playing shows and seeing America through live music. 29 00:01:44,360 --> 00:01:46,360 Speaker 1: This summer, I'll hit the stage. Who Season two of 30 00:01:46,440 --> 00:01:51,000 Speaker 1: Sound of Our Town ten cities twelve episodes every other Thursday, 31 00:01:51,400 --> 00:01:53,680 Speaker 1: we explore the live music venues and culture of a 32 00:01:53,720 --> 00:01:57,000 Speaker 1: new American city. With each new episode, our tour continues 33 00:01:57,000 --> 00:01:58,520 Speaker 1: into the kind of venues you want to get to 34 00:01:58,600 --> 00:02:03,200 Speaker 1: when you landed in Detroit, Providence, Denver, or Seattle. Listen 35 00:02:03,200 --> 00:02:06,560 Speaker 1: to Sound of Our Town on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, 36 00:02:06,920 --> 00:02:13,880 Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcasts. In Pike County, the 37 00:02:13,960 --> 00:02:16,640 Speaker 1: First Witnesses and the murder trial of George Wagner, the 38 00:02:16,639 --> 00:02:21,040 Speaker 1: fourth took the stand. Imagine this. You go to your 39 00:02:21,040 --> 00:02:24,160 Speaker 1: sister's house, to your nephew's house. You open the door 40 00:02:24,639 --> 00:02:27,720 Speaker 1: and you find them shot to death in bed. It 41 00:02:27,880 --> 00:02:30,919 Speaker 1: sounds medieval almost, but George Wagner, of the Fourth's lawyers 42 00:02:30,919 --> 00:02:33,679 Speaker 1: disputed almost all of that. They also pointed out that 43 00:02:33,720 --> 00:02:37,640 Speaker 1: their client, despite phasing eight aggravated murder charges, is not 44 00:02:37,800 --> 00:02:46,200 Speaker 1: believed to have killed anyone. This is the Pikes and 45 00:02:46,280 --> 00:02:51,240 Speaker 1: Massacre Returned to Pike County Season four, Episode three con 46 00:02:51,360 --> 00:02:57,120 Speaker 1: Artists and Liars. I'm Courtney Armstrong, a television producer at 47 00:02:57,200 --> 00:03:01,000 Speaker 1: KAT Studios, with Stephanie Ledecker and Jeff sha On the 48 00:03:01,040 --> 00:03:03,400 Speaker 1: first day of the trial of George Wagner the fourth, 49 00:03:03,560 --> 00:03:07,160 Speaker 1: opening statements for the prosecution clocked in at four hours. 50 00:03:09,680 --> 00:03:12,720 Speaker 1: It raised some eyebrows among media and legal experts for 51 00:03:12,760 --> 00:03:15,960 Speaker 1: its length and amount of detail. After a lunch break, 52 00:03:16,040 --> 00:03:18,360 Speaker 1: it was time for the defense to make their case heard. 53 00:03:18,960 --> 00:03:24,200 Speaker 1: The defense attorneal here is Richard Nash. Is the defense 54 00:03:24,280 --> 00:03:27,799 Speaker 1: ready to give an opening statement? Yes, you may do so. 55 00:03:28,840 --> 00:03:31,639 Speaker 1: It's important to note that George Wagner, the Fourth, who 56 00:03:31,680 --> 00:03:35,080 Speaker 1: is currently on trial, and his father, Billy Wagner, whose 57 00:03:35,080 --> 00:03:38,760 Speaker 1: trial is upcoming, have pleaded not guilty to all charges. 58 00:03:40,440 --> 00:03:46,920 Speaker 1: Good afternoon, everybody. April the twenty second, twenty sixteen. George 59 00:03:46,960 --> 00:03:50,520 Speaker 1: Wagner lived on Peterson Road, and that day started off 60 00:03:50,560 --> 00:03:55,480 Speaker 1: like most days. Nash is in his mid forties, bald, 61 00:03:55,520 --> 00:03:58,840 Speaker 1: with a beard and glasses. He wears a bright red tie. 62 00:04:00,040 --> 00:04:03,040 Speaker 1: Nash jumps right into the defense's narrative of what happened 63 00:04:03,040 --> 00:04:07,320 Speaker 1: in the morning after the murders. George knew he had 64 00:04:07,400 --> 00:04:10,240 Speaker 1: one task that he had to do that day, and 65 00:04:10,360 --> 00:04:15,120 Speaker 1: that was to disassembly building a wood shed, so to speak. 66 00:04:15,520 --> 00:04:17,320 Speaker 1: That was the one thing that he had to do. 67 00:04:19,000 --> 00:04:22,039 Speaker 1: But before George could take off to do that, he 68 00:04:22,240 --> 00:04:27,240 Speaker 1: noticed that Jake was often that new barn up on 69 00:04:27,320 --> 00:04:31,960 Speaker 1: that hill on Peterson Road. Nash is alluding to a 70 00:04:32,000 --> 00:04:34,520 Speaker 1: barn that sits on a hill above where the entire 71 00:04:34,600 --> 00:04:38,960 Speaker 1: Wagner family resided at the time of the murders. At 72 00:04:39,000 --> 00:04:42,120 Speaker 1: that point, nothing seemed suspicious to George. H. Boll Agated 73 00:04:42,240 --> 00:04:44,440 Speaker 1: was off that Jake was already up that day, and 74 00:04:44,600 --> 00:04:49,000 Speaker 1: usually Jake is the second to rise. While they were 75 00:04:49,040 --> 00:04:54,800 Speaker 1: headed back home to Peterson Road, Jake's cell phone went off. 76 00:04:56,120 --> 00:05:03,599 Speaker 1: There the caller was Andrew Carson. Andrew Carson said hello, Jake, 77 00:05:05,600 --> 00:05:08,559 Speaker 1: and there he had a conversation. That's when he thought 78 00:05:08,640 --> 00:05:12,640 Speaker 1: he was the first to tell Jake that the mother 79 00:05:12,760 --> 00:05:17,000 Speaker 1: of his child, Hannah, had been murdered, along with six 80 00:05:17,040 --> 00:05:23,599 Speaker 1: of her relatives. Jake, according to mister Carson, put on 81 00:05:23,680 --> 00:05:27,640 Speaker 1: an act worthy of an Academy Award, an act where 82 00:05:27,680 --> 00:05:30,880 Speaker 1: he calmed Carson into thinking that he was the first 83 00:05:30,920 --> 00:05:34,200 Speaker 1: to tell him as he wept and cried on the phone, 84 00:05:34,200 --> 00:05:38,520 Speaker 1: and that as the first time George learned about murders. 85 00:05:41,640 --> 00:05:44,159 Speaker 1: It's at this point the whole world becomes privy to 86 00:05:44,200 --> 00:05:48,320 Speaker 1: the defense's main argument. George was not there that night 87 00:05:48,360 --> 00:05:51,599 Speaker 1: and didn't know about the murderers until the next day. 88 00:05:52,279 --> 00:05:54,920 Speaker 1: This is the first time we're hearing about this, let 89 00:05:54,920 --> 00:05:57,880 Speaker 1: alone at his trial. The pretty bold moved by the 90 00:05:57,920 --> 00:06:03,919 Speaker 1: defense to say he wasn't a period. My takeaway is 91 00:06:03,920 --> 00:06:06,320 Speaker 1: that what George Wagner is attempting to do, which is 92 00:06:06,320 --> 00:06:11,040 Speaker 1: a pretty interesting strategy, is remove himself from the culpability 93 00:06:11,520 --> 00:06:14,640 Speaker 1: of even being aware that the murders were happening and 94 00:06:14,760 --> 00:06:18,080 Speaker 1: letting them happen. And it might work. I mean, the 95 00:06:18,240 --> 00:06:21,599 Speaker 1: only evidence that we know of that the prosecution has 96 00:06:21,920 --> 00:06:24,880 Speaker 1: is the shoeprint. As we know, there's nothing really tying 97 00:06:24,920 --> 00:06:28,560 Speaker 1: George Wagner to the Rodan murders, the Knight of the murders, 98 00:06:28,720 --> 00:06:32,560 Speaker 1: and this is a plausible workaround that the defense has 99 00:06:32,600 --> 00:06:35,279 Speaker 1: come up with or is possibly the truth. We don't 100 00:06:35,320 --> 00:06:37,480 Speaker 1: know if that's yet to be proven. But wouldn't that 101 00:06:37,560 --> 00:06:41,159 Speaker 1: completely discount what his brother Jake Wagner is saying. It 102 00:06:41,200 --> 00:06:43,280 Speaker 1: would staff, But what I think George Wagner is doing 103 00:06:43,400 --> 00:06:45,960 Speaker 1: is thinking about his own safety at this point. He's 104 00:06:46,000 --> 00:06:47,839 Speaker 1: not worried about what Jake's plea deal is or what 105 00:06:47,880 --> 00:06:51,279 Speaker 1: angel Is plea deal. He's worried about himself. What a 106 00:06:51,320 --> 00:06:53,880 Speaker 1: showdown that's actually going to be when you take this 107 00:06:54,000 --> 00:06:56,839 Speaker 1: part into account as well. So for the first time, 108 00:06:57,200 --> 00:06:59,960 Speaker 1: George Wagner is going to see his brother, Jake Wagner, 109 00:07:00,480 --> 00:07:04,279 Speaker 1: but they're also going to completely disagree on the story. 110 00:07:04,960 --> 00:07:07,800 Speaker 1: Shakespeare couldn't have written this better himself. I mean, we've 111 00:07:07,800 --> 00:07:10,640 Speaker 1: heard how close these two brothers were for years growing up, 112 00:07:10,640 --> 00:07:12,920 Speaker 1: that they stood by each other, that they protected one another. 113 00:07:14,480 --> 00:07:17,920 Speaker 1: Now this contradictory story is really going to play out 114 00:07:17,960 --> 00:07:20,560 Speaker 1: in court. And you know, we've been wrong before in 115 00:07:20,640 --> 00:07:22,440 Speaker 1: terms of what our theories are, what we think, But 116 00:07:22,800 --> 00:07:24,720 Speaker 1: I have a hard time wrapping my head around the 117 00:07:24,760 --> 00:07:27,160 Speaker 1: idea that George Wagner did not know about these murders. 118 00:07:30,400 --> 00:07:36,880 Speaker 1: Here's reporter Annette Levy. I think it's interesting that they 119 00:07:36,920 --> 00:07:39,520 Speaker 1: say that George wasn't even there, and I guess they 120 00:07:39,560 --> 00:07:42,400 Speaker 1: have to write because if he's there, he's going down 121 00:07:42,440 --> 00:07:46,600 Speaker 1: for aggravated murder, So they can't concede that point to 122 00:07:46,640 --> 00:07:49,960 Speaker 1: the state. But they've talked about in a pre trial 123 00:07:50,000 --> 00:07:52,880 Speaker 1: motion in the past that Jake said that George went 124 00:07:52,920 --> 00:07:55,400 Speaker 1: along at the last minute because he feared that Billy 125 00:07:55,520 --> 00:07:57,400 Speaker 1: might kill Jake at the end of the night. They've 126 00:07:57,440 --> 00:08:06,160 Speaker 1: quoted Jake as saying that local journalist James Pilcher was 127 00:08:06,200 --> 00:08:10,840 Speaker 1: also in the courtroom. The defense is clearly stating that 128 00:08:10,880 --> 00:08:14,920 Speaker 1: George wasn't there, that the first he heard about the 129 00:08:15,000 --> 00:08:19,960 Speaker 1: murders was the next morning, and that Jake had gotten 130 00:08:20,000 --> 00:08:21,960 Speaker 1: up before him and was getting rid of the evidence 131 00:08:22,040 --> 00:08:27,360 Speaker 1: that morning before he even got up, And that was 132 00:08:27,680 --> 00:08:31,080 Speaker 1: surprising to me that they would play that gambit. But 133 00:08:31,240 --> 00:08:34,640 Speaker 1: really really hammering on the fact that there is absolutely 134 00:08:34,800 --> 00:08:40,000 Speaker 1: not one shred of physical evidence specifically tying George Wagner 135 00:08:40,040 --> 00:08:43,679 Speaker 1: to the scene of the crimes or that he killed anybody. 136 00:08:43,840 --> 00:08:48,040 Speaker 1: So they are going to leverage that as much as possible. 137 00:08:48,480 --> 00:08:53,679 Speaker 1: As this strag goes on, it's clear at this point 138 00:08:53,720 --> 00:08:56,400 Speaker 1: that the defense is going all in against the rest 139 00:08:56,440 --> 00:09:00,720 Speaker 1: of the Wagner family. Nash continues to separate George from 140 00:09:00,720 --> 00:09:09,240 Speaker 1: his relatives. After some time, BCI had narrowed down who 141 00:09:09,240 --> 00:09:13,480 Speaker 1: they felt were suspects. In fact, it's worthy to note 142 00:09:14,520 --> 00:09:21,040 Speaker 1: that BCI had interviewed Jake Wagner four times. BCI, conducting 143 00:09:21,080 --> 00:09:26,199 Speaker 1: their investigation, also felt it was important that they interviewed 144 00:09:26,360 --> 00:09:30,480 Speaker 1: Angela Wagner. The third person that they felt that was 145 00:09:30,520 --> 00:09:34,760 Speaker 1: important to talk to in the Wagner household was Billy Wagner. 146 00:09:35,640 --> 00:09:39,760 Speaker 1: George was right there. Not once did they ever ask 147 00:09:39,880 --> 00:09:45,640 Speaker 1: to speak with George. Earlier that day. During the prosecution's 148 00:09:45,679 --> 00:09:49,360 Speaker 1: opening statement, Angie Kneppa revealed that authorities kept tabs on 149 00:09:49,400 --> 00:09:53,800 Speaker 1: the Wagners before their arrests, even when they were in Alaska. 150 00:09:54,200 --> 00:09:57,640 Speaker 1: When the family decided to come back to Ohio, investigators 151 00:09:57,679 --> 00:10:02,680 Speaker 1: were waiting for them at the US Canadian Board. Imagine, 152 00:10:02,679 --> 00:10:07,880 Speaker 1: if you will, four individuals being surprised at a Montana order, 153 00:10:08,480 --> 00:10:11,680 Speaker 1: agents putting them in separate rooms, and BCI walking in 154 00:10:11,760 --> 00:10:15,200 Speaker 1: and questioning them first. Billy gives in the vehicle. He's 155 00:10:15,240 --> 00:10:17,960 Speaker 1: released first, and then Angela gets in the vehicle. Not 156 00:10:18,080 --> 00:10:22,360 Speaker 1: a word, not a word about, oh my gosh, can 157 00:10:22,400 --> 00:10:24,880 Speaker 1: you believe that happened? What they think we did this? 158 00:10:25,440 --> 00:10:28,520 Speaker 1: No conversation like that at all, no conversation at all 159 00:10:28,720 --> 00:10:33,199 Speaker 1: about what just happened. We find out later that there's 160 00:10:33,200 --> 00:10:37,400 Speaker 1: a reason for that, because Billy had told them, you know, 161 00:10:38,600 --> 00:10:43,160 Speaker 1: be quiet. The defense tells its side of the story. 162 00:10:44,160 --> 00:10:47,600 Speaker 1: We had special agents who had four different rooms where 163 00:10:47,640 --> 00:10:51,920 Speaker 1: they spoke with all four family members, and George had 164 00:10:51,960 --> 00:10:55,160 Speaker 1: an agent there speaking with him, Special agents and Pagan 165 00:10:56,840 --> 00:11:00,720 Speaker 1: and he told George, your family has big problem. George, 166 00:11:01,120 --> 00:11:03,600 Speaker 1: do you want to be a witness or do you 167 00:11:03,679 --> 00:11:12,079 Speaker 1: want to be a sessment? Here again. James Pilcher, he 168 00:11:12,160 --> 00:11:15,280 Speaker 1: was being questioned by the BCI when they came across 169 00:11:15,320 --> 00:11:19,120 Speaker 1: the border in Montana, and he said, yeah, he had 170 00:11:19,160 --> 00:11:20,880 Speaker 1: problems with his family, but he never knew them to 171 00:11:20,920 --> 00:11:23,640 Speaker 1: be violent. He couldn't believe it. He couldn't believe they 172 00:11:23,640 --> 00:11:27,520 Speaker 1: would kill somebody. And he's at nine. Special Prosecutor Angie 173 00:11:27,559 --> 00:11:31,040 Speaker 1: Kaneppa objects and she and defense Attorney Nash approached the 174 00:11:31,080 --> 00:11:35,480 Speaker 1: bench and huddle with Judge Deering. It is very highly 175 00:11:35,559 --> 00:11:40,720 Speaker 1: unusual that the prosecution would interrupt somebody just five minutes 176 00:11:40,760 --> 00:11:49,280 Speaker 1: into their opening statement. And at that point they went 177 00:11:49,320 --> 00:11:51,559 Speaker 1: to the bench and argued for two minutes, and then 178 00:11:51,559 --> 00:11:54,680 Speaker 1: went back into chambers and argued for another eight to 179 00:11:54,800 --> 00:11:58,800 Speaker 1: nine minutes. And then the judge says, you know, opening 180 00:11:58,840 --> 00:12:04,520 Speaker 1: statements amount evidence. So clearly the prosecution was trying to say, 181 00:12:04,920 --> 00:12:08,200 Speaker 1: he's throwing this out there and he doesn't envy proof 182 00:12:08,200 --> 00:12:11,800 Speaker 1: for it, and he needs to be called out. You 183 00:12:11,880 --> 00:12:15,200 Speaker 1: might continue your older state, Thank you, judge. So back 184 00:12:15,240 --> 00:12:18,959 Speaker 1: to that interview room with Special Agent Hageman, he had 185 00:12:19,000 --> 00:12:23,000 Speaker 1: just a few statements to make. Then he said, if 186 00:12:23,080 --> 00:12:25,760 Speaker 1: I don't know who did it, then you all go 187 00:12:25,840 --> 00:12:31,000 Speaker 1: down for conspiracy. And so Hageman never received any information. 188 00:12:31,480 --> 00:12:35,320 Speaker 1: And here George says, if I don't hear who did it, 189 00:12:35,679 --> 00:12:39,840 Speaker 1: you all go down for conspiracy. This is a trial 190 00:12:40,160 --> 00:12:44,120 Speaker 1: about the state of Ohio against George Wager. It's not 191 00:12:44,880 --> 00:12:51,200 Speaker 1: the Wagners. It's not Billy Wager. It's not Angela Wagner, 192 00:12:51,320 --> 00:12:54,840 Speaker 1: nor is it Jake Wacker. This is all about George. 193 00:12:55,720 --> 00:12:59,040 Speaker 1: There are certain things in life that we can't control. 194 00:12:59,679 --> 00:13:04,400 Speaker 1: One of those things is our birth name. Unfortunately George 195 00:13:04,440 --> 00:13:07,880 Speaker 1: cannot help that he's a wagon, but that doesn't make 196 00:13:07,960 --> 00:13:15,760 Speaker 1: him a murder. They are clearly relying on the fact 197 00:13:16,200 --> 00:13:19,560 Speaker 1: that the prosecution has burden of proof here. They can 198 00:13:19,600 --> 00:13:23,600 Speaker 1: just play defense and swat away anything or that they 199 00:13:23,640 --> 00:13:26,440 Speaker 1: can sit there and say, well, George didn't know anything, 200 00:13:26,480 --> 00:13:30,559 Speaker 1: and how can you prove it. George gets more animated 201 00:13:30,679 --> 00:13:34,480 Speaker 1: as his attorney speaks, making eye contact with the cherry. 202 00:13:34,840 --> 00:13:38,480 Speaker 1: The media outside the courthouse is quick to comment and 203 00:13:38,640 --> 00:13:41,680 Speaker 1: what the defense has really done well out is really 204 00:13:41,720 --> 00:13:44,600 Speaker 1: trying to paint George as an individual, an individual who 205 00:13:44,720 --> 00:13:47,319 Speaker 1: happened to be part of a family who had kind 206 00:13:47,320 --> 00:13:50,040 Speaker 1: of a sortid pass and a pass with corruption and 207 00:13:50,120 --> 00:13:54,040 Speaker 1: other criminal behavior. But their argument essentially is just because 208 00:13:54,320 --> 00:13:57,120 Speaker 1: his family is this way doesn't mean that he's this way, 209 00:13:57,160 --> 00:14:01,760 Speaker 1: and it certainly doesn't make him a murderer. As you 210 00:14:01,880 --> 00:14:04,320 Speaker 1: hear the evidence in this case, there's five things I 211 00:14:04,360 --> 00:14:08,000 Speaker 1: want you to pay attention to. The first is going 212 00:14:08,080 --> 00:14:13,280 Speaker 1: to be what Jake says. Jake will tell you that 213 00:14:13,360 --> 00:14:18,640 Speaker 1: George had nothing to do with the plan of these murders. 214 00:14:20,120 --> 00:14:24,520 Speaker 1: Jake will tell you that George shot no one. Jake 215 00:14:24,600 --> 00:14:30,680 Speaker 1: will tell you that George did nothing to destroy any evidence, 216 00:14:32,880 --> 00:14:35,960 Speaker 1: is clearly planning the finger at Jake and Angela and Billy, 217 00:14:35,960 --> 00:14:39,760 Speaker 1: and that George had nothing to do with it. So 218 00:14:39,880 --> 00:14:42,560 Speaker 1: do they just change their story because now they've seen 219 00:14:42,760 --> 00:14:44,960 Speaker 1: all of the evidence and are just sort of making 220 00:14:44,960 --> 00:14:48,160 Speaker 1: a strategy switch. Yeah, I think so. And I think 221 00:14:48,200 --> 00:14:51,320 Speaker 1: what they're gonna do is just call the credibility Jake 222 00:14:51,400 --> 00:14:55,760 Speaker 1: and Angela, because that's what this case relies on. The 223 00:14:55,880 --> 00:14:58,080 Speaker 1: second thing that I want you to pay attention to 224 00:14:58,160 --> 00:15:03,360 Speaker 1: will be the credibility of Angela and Jake. The third 225 00:15:03,400 --> 00:15:05,480 Speaker 1: thing that I want you to pay attention to is 226 00:15:06,200 --> 00:15:09,520 Speaker 1: the incentives that were offered by the State of Ohio 227 00:15:10,240 --> 00:15:13,760 Speaker 1: for such hing as crimes to Angela and Jake to 228 00:15:13,800 --> 00:15:18,480 Speaker 1: get them to talk, to get them to tell a story. 229 00:15:18,920 --> 00:15:21,760 Speaker 1: This is a family of con artists, liars, and deeds. 230 00:15:22,160 --> 00:15:25,000 Speaker 1: He says that in the or and that Jake became 231 00:15:25,080 --> 00:15:27,480 Speaker 1: the vessel for all of that and George was not 232 00:15:27,600 --> 00:15:30,320 Speaker 1: like them. George wanted to get away from them, and 233 00:15:30,400 --> 00:15:36,040 Speaker 1: it's up to the prosecution to providings. That second thing 234 00:15:36,040 --> 00:15:39,720 Speaker 1: I wanted to talk to you about is Jake and Angela, 235 00:15:40,480 --> 00:15:44,440 Speaker 1: who are con artists and liars, We've already touched on 236 00:15:44,480 --> 00:15:47,680 Speaker 1: it some. But Angela is the con artist through and through. 237 00:15:48,280 --> 00:15:52,440 Speaker 1: That's who the state has is the key witness, con 238 00:15:52,560 --> 00:15:58,240 Speaker 1: artists and liars. Clearly, the defensive strategy is going to 239 00:15:58,280 --> 00:16:00,920 Speaker 1: be these people are liars. You can't believe a thing 240 00:16:00,960 --> 00:16:03,520 Speaker 1: they said. They've lied before. What makes you think they're 241 00:16:03,520 --> 00:16:09,760 Speaker 1: not lying now? The cohan didn't stop, then it's continued. 242 00:16:09,800 --> 00:16:12,880 Speaker 1: It's who they are. They've conned the state of Ohio 243 00:16:13,000 --> 00:16:16,120 Speaker 1: into the most heinous crime, into a thirty year sentence, 244 00:16:17,400 --> 00:16:20,840 Speaker 1: in a sentence most deserving of death, he escapes with life. 245 00:16:21,800 --> 00:16:24,920 Speaker 1: The plea deal is what I'm speaking of. In order 246 00:16:24,960 --> 00:16:31,200 Speaker 1: to avoid the death penalty, they must implicate George. We're 247 00:16:31,200 --> 00:16:37,240 Speaker 1: going to take a break. We'll be back in a moment. Oh. 248 00:16:37,240 --> 00:16:40,280 Speaker 1: I'm Carol Fisher and I'm hosting a podcast called The 249 00:16:40,320 --> 00:16:43,760 Speaker 1: Girl Friends. Back in the nineteen nineties in Las Vegas, 250 00:16:44,040 --> 00:16:48,440 Speaker 1: a few of us dated the most eligible bachelor in town, Bob. 251 00:16:49,000 --> 00:16:54,680 Speaker 1: He spoke several languages, he did medical missionary work, and 252 00:16:55,080 --> 00:16:59,280 Speaker 1: he was Jewish. He was perfect on paper, but he wasn't. 253 00:16:59,560 --> 00:17:03,280 Speaker 1: He really wasn't. He shouted and to the point she 254 00:17:03,520 --> 00:17:08,479 Speaker 1: went unconscious. Bob could lie about anything, but only takes 255 00:17:08,640 --> 00:17:12,680 Speaker 1: the one time when somebody ends up dead. Unfortunately for Bob, 256 00:17:12,920 --> 00:17:15,920 Speaker 1: us girlfriends know how to fight back. I wanted him 257 00:17:15,920 --> 00:17:18,640 Speaker 1: to pay for his crime. He needed to be put 258 00:17:18,640 --> 00:17:20,719 Speaker 1: to justice. I'll be honest with you. If I saw 259 00:17:20,800 --> 00:17:22,720 Speaker 1: him right now, I'd spit on him. I would call 260 00:17:22,800 --> 00:17:25,639 Speaker 1: him and I would say, I know you killed my sister. 261 00:17:26,040 --> 00:17:28,960 Speaker 1: I will always hound you and haunt you. You can 262 00:17:29,040 --> 00:17:33,320 Speaker 1: listen to the Girlfriends on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, 263 00:17:33,560 --> 00:17:38,280 Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcasts from iHeart podcasts. Whitney 264 00:17:38,359 --> 00:17:41,880 Speaker 1: hell is going on here. Everyone has their limits. I'd 265 00:17:41,920 --> 00:17:44,399 Speaker 1: never confronted a situation like this. I just thought it 266 00:17:44,440 --> 00:17:47,280 Speaker 1: was just a really terrible immoral thing, a line they 267 00:17:47,320 --> 00:17:50,399 Speaker 1: won't cross. I was stunned, and I just said, no, 268 00:17:50,800 --> 00:17:53,679 Speaker 1: we're killing people. You may never have to face that 269 00:17:53,800 --> 00:17:57,560 Speaker 1: decision when you find yourself at that line. Thou its ricin, 270 00:17:57,760 --> 00:18:01,120 Speaker 1: art ricin, and somebody needs to just for once give 271 00:18:01,200 --> 00:18:06,200 Speaker 1: everybody the whole truth. This is evil, and the only 272 00:18:06,240 --> 00:18:09,920 Speaker 1: person who can sound the alarm is you. I wasn't 273 00:18:09,960 --> 00:18:14,679 Speaker 1: just going to sit silently. Buy from iHeart podcasts. These 274 00:18:14,840 --> 00:18:17,919 Speaker 1: are the whistleblowers. If you are disloyal. Things are going 275 00:18:17,960 --> 00:18:20,200 Speaker 1: to happen to this week out disgrace through our gun. 276 00:18:20,280 --> 00:18:26,320 Speaker 1: Evil play should be prosecute. When power corrupts, conscience is 277 00:18:26,359 --> 00:18:30,520 Speaker 1: the last line of defense. I'm Miles Taylor. Listen to 278 00:18:30,520 --> 00:18:34,840 Speaker 1: the Whistleblowers on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever 279 00:18:34,880 --> 00:18:45,240 Speaker 1: you get your podcasts. My name's Laverne Cox. I'm an actress, producer, fashionista, 280 00:18:45,400 --> 00:18:48,320 Speaker 1: and host of The Laverne Cox Show. You may remember 281 00:18:48,400 --> 00:18:52,760 Speaker 1: my award winning first season. I've been pretty busy. There's 282 00:18:52,760 --> 00:18:56,280 Speaker 1: always time to touch incredible guests about important things people 283 00:18:56,320 --> 00:18:58,480 Speaker 1: like me have been screaming for years. We've got to 284 00:18:58,560 --> 00:19:01,000 Speaker 1: watch the Supreme Court. What they're doing is wrong, what 285 00:19:01,119 --> 00:19:03,800 Speaker 1: they're doing is evil. They will take things away, and 286 00:19:03,880 --> 00:19:07,080 Speaker 1: I can only hope that Dobbs, is that like Pearl Harbor, 287 00:19:07,160 --> 00:19:09,560 Speaker 1: moment gro You and I both know what it took 288 00:19:09,720 --> 00:19:11,760 Speaker 1: to just get through the day in New York City 289 00:19:11,840 --> 00:19:14,919 Speaker 1: and get home in one piece. And so the fact 290 00:19:14,920 --> 00:19:17,840 Speaker 1: that we're here and what you've achieved and what I've achieved, 291 00:19:18,160 --> 00:19:22,160 Speaker 1: you know, that's momentous. It's not just sitting around complaining 292 00:19:22,160 --> 00:19:24,720 Speaker 1: about some bills. The only reason that you might think 293 00:19:24,760 --> 00:19:27,840 Speaker 1: as Chase said that we're always miserable is because people 294 00:19:27,840 --> 00:19:30,920 Speaker 1: are constantly attacking us and we're constantly noticing it. Listen 295 00:19:31,000 --> 00:19:34,840 Speaker 1: to the Laverne Cox Show on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, 296 00:19:35,080 --> 00:19:38,959 Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcast. Be sure to subscribe 297 00:19:39,200 --> 00:19:44,679 Speaker 1: and share. Have you ever covered a carpet staining with 298 00:19:44,720 --> 00:19:48,560 Speaker 1: a rug, ignored a leaky faucet, pretended your half painted 299 00:19:48,600 --> 00:19:51,520 Speaker 1: living room is supposed to look like that? Well, you're 300 00:19:51,560 --> 00:19:54,560 Speaker 1: not alone. We've all got unfinished home project. But there's 301 00:19:54,600 --> 00:19:57,359 Speaker 1: an easier way. Thumbtack is the app that makes it 302 00:19:57,400 --> 00:19:59,439 Speaker 1: easier to care for your home. Pull out on your 303 00:19:59,440 --> 00:20:02,800 Speaker 1: phone and just a few taps, search chat and book 304 00:20:02,920 --> 00:20:06,240 Speaker 1: highly rated pros right in your neighborhood. Download thumb chat 305 00:20:06,280 --> 00:20:15,520 Speaker 1: and start caring for your home the easier way. As 306 00:20:15,640 --> 00:20:18,879 Speaker 1: nashleys into the rest of the Wagners, George listens with 307 00:20:18,920 --> 00:20:21,960 Speaker 1: a hint of sadness on his face. Going back to 308 00:20:21,960 --> 00:20:24,919 Speaker 1: the morning after the murders, the defense lays out their story. 309 00:20:25,640 --> 00:20:29,000 Speaker 1: According to Nash, Jake was in the barn destroying cell phones, 310 00:20:29,119 --> 00:20:32,600 Speaker 1: burning clothes, and breaking down the silencers and weapons used 311 00:20:32,640 --> 00:20:39,560 Speaker 1: in the murders. There's no physical evidence George was at 312 00:20:39,640 --> 00:20:44,080 Speaker 1: any of those murder scenes. There's no DNA, there's no prints, 313 00:20:44,720 --> 00:20:50,080 Speaker 1: and bci knew he had no motive. Outside the courtroom, 314 00:20:50,240 --> 00:20:54,840 Speaker 1: Mike Allen comments, sure, she seems like it's a strong 315 00:20:54,920 --> 00:20:57,359 Speaker 1: case for the state, But you know, the defense, I 316 00:20:57,359 --> 00:20:59,840 Speaker 1: don't think they'd be taken this to trial unless they 317 00:21:00,040 --> 00:21:02,480 Speaker 1: thought they had something. So it's going to be interesting 318 00:21:02,480 --> 00:21:05,120 Speaker 1: to see again two of the family members plat out 319 00:21:05,160 --> 00:21:08,120 Speaker 1: too to give people backstory. That's correct to clat out. 320 00:21:08,240 --> 00:21:11,080 Speaker 1: I think the states loaded for bear, But again, we 321 00:21:11,119 --> 00:21:13,479 Speaker 1: just don't know what the defense strategy is. It's going 322 00:21:13,520 --> 00:21:16,680 Speaker 1: to be interesting to see The defense closes by once 323 00:21:16,720 --> 00:21:21,120 Speaker 1: again highlighting the character differences between their client, George Wagner 324 00:21:21,160 --> 00:21:24,879 Speaker 1: the fourth and the rest of the Wagner family. The 325 00:21:25,000 --> 00:21:28,080 Speaker 1: last thing I want to tell you about is George 326 00:21:28,240 --> 00:21:32,600 Speaker 1: is not like his mother, his father, or as a brother. 327 00:21:32,680 --> 00:21:37,720 Speaker 1: He's different from them. George disagreed with the way that 328 00:21:37,840 --> 00:21:41,880 Speaker 1: his family lived their life. He disagreed with them so 329 00:21:41,960 --> 00:21:45,800 Speaker 1: much he actually engaged in physical fistfights with his father. 330 00:21:47,680 --> 00:21:51,679 Speaker 1: George disliked the way that that family functions so much 331 00:21:51,960 --> 00:21:54,760 Speaker 1: he was not part of them. That as soon as 332 00:21:54,760 --> 00:21:57,240 Speaker 1: he could leave that home. As soon as he got 333 00:21:57,320 --> 00:22:00,840 Speaker 1: his driver's license when he was sixteen years old, he left. 334 00:22:01,119 --> 00:22:04,240 Speaker 1: He ran away George's like the most sixteen year olds, 335 00:22:04,440 --> 00:22:07,480 Speaker 1: couldn't make it at sixteen, so unfortunately he had to 336 00:22:07,520 --> 00:22:11,840 Speaker 1: come back home. We believe the evidence will show that 337 00:22:12,400 --> 00:22:16,200 Speaker 1: George could not have committed these murdys, and it goes further. 338 00:22:16,960 --> 00:22:21,200 Speaker 1: We believe the evidence will show that Jake in fact 339 00:22:21,320 --> 00:22:25,800 Speaker 1: killed all eight, but he had to implicate his father 340 00:22:25,880 --> 00:22:28,800 Speaker 1: in actually killing somebody. But the evidence will show that 341 00:22:28,920 --> 00:22:33,880 Speaker 1: Jake killed always. We've heard mixed things about George over 342 00:22:33,920 --> 00:22:36,239 Speaker 1: the years, but we also have heard that he was 343 00:22:36,320 --> 00:22:41,960 Speaker 1: just very loved and had close friendships, had very close relationships. 344 00:22:42,359 --> 00:22:44,280 Speaker 1: I go back to our interview with Chris Newcome, who 345 00:22:44,320 --> 00:22:47,120 Speaker 1: was Angela Wagner's half brother, and he grew up very 346 00:22:47,119 --> 00:22:50,719 Speaker 1: close with Jake and George, and he explained to us 347 00:22:50,720 --> 00:22:55,800 Speaker 1: he felt completely betrayed by George, specifically because he considered 348 00:22:55,880 --> 00:22:58,720 Speaker 1: him more like a brother than anything else, and he 349 00:22:58,760 --> 00:23:01,439 Speaker 1: couldn't possibly imagine that he would have had anything to 350 00:23:01,480 --> 00:23:04,240 Speaker 1: do with this more than any of the other family members. 351 00:23:04,640 --> 00:23:07,680 Speaker 1: And so I guess, I mean, is it possible that 352 00:23:07,760 --> 00:23:11,400 Speaker 1: George didn't do this and he's been roped into this 353 00:23:11,520 --> 00:23:14,560 Speaker 1: awful crime by his family who was scheming to kind 354 00:23:14,560 --> 00:23:18,080 Speaker 1: of bring him down with them. Either that or he's 355 00:23:18,119 --> 00:23:22,119 Speaker 1: a really good liar. This is the outline, your bullet points. 356 00:23:22,560 --> 00:23:25,240 Speaker 1: You're going to see this, this, and this. Now. The 357 00:23:25,400 --> 00:23:29,320 Speaker 1: prosecution obviously when much longer, they have a much gunch, 358 00:23:29,359 --> 00:23:32,280 Speaker 1: bigger case. They have all this evidence that they've been 359 00:23:32,320 --> 00:23:35,280 Speaker 1: gathering for four years and not been able to present anybody, 360 00:23:35,800 --> 00:23:38,000 Speaker 1: and so they just dumped it all over the jury. 361 00:23:38,960 --> 00:23:42,040 Speaker 1: Knowing what we know now about the opening statements in 362 00:23:42,200 --> 00:23:46,040 Speaker 1: what has been said, is it becoming possible that he 363 00:23:46,160 --> 00:23:51,280 Speaker 1: could walk free or does that still seem completely impossible? 364 00:23:51,920 --> 00:23:56,880 Speaker 1: It depends on how believable the jury finds Jake and Angela. 365 00:23:58,520 --> 00:24:01,680 Speaker 1: Is it possible that he walks free? Absolutely as possible. 366 00:24:01,720 --> 00:24:06,000 Speaker 1: You never can tell. The next morning, witness testimony begins. 367 00:24:06,920 --> 00:24:10,960 Speaker 1: First up is victim Dana Roden's sister Bobby Joe Manley. 368 00:24:11,440 --> 00:24:13,960 Speaker 1: Bobby Manly and a friend found the first two victims, 369 00:24:14,080 --> 00:24:17,240 Speaker 1: Chris Roden Senior and his cousin Gary. That discovery was 370 00:24:17,280 --> 00:24:20,080 Speaker 1: quickly followed by this English nine one one call, which 371 00:24:20,160 --> 00:24:26,160 Speaker 1: was played for the jury. Nine one yes, Yes, forty seven, 372 00:24:26,400 --> 00:24:32,840 Speaker 1: seventy forty seventy seven, forty seventy seven. Okay fourtyero seven 373 00:24:33,000 --> 00:24:40,560 Speaker 1: seventy emil correct, Yes, that's for you than man going on. 374 00:24:42,400 --> 00:24:46,119 Speaker 1: There's blood all over the house. Okay, my brother in lawson, 375 00:24:47,960 --> 00:24:55,520 Speaker 1: I'll be the hell them. Okay, what's your brother in 376 00:24:55,600 --> 00:24:59,520 Speaker 1: law's name? Chris Roden and Harry Roden, Frank and Garry 377 00:24:59,640 --> 00:25:02,879 Speaker 1: Road start times and it looks like the Dad, I 378 00:25:03,160 --> 00:25:05,840 Speaker 1: think they're both dead. I thank the breath. Dad. Let's 379 00:25:05,840 --> 00:25:09,320 Speaker 1: our phone has pop out of Okay, there anybody else 380 00:25:09,359 --> 00:25:14,760 Speaker 1: from the house. I don't know us. Okay, so door 381 00:25:14,960 --> 00:25:18,359 Speaker 1: was awfull. We got here, but I haven't went in 382 00:25:18,560 --> 00:25:21,280 Speaker 1: and hit her running on the floor and out. Okay, 383 00:25:21,560 --> 00:25:24,160 Speaker 1: enough starts like now, okay to stay out of the house. 384 00:25:24,200 --> 00:25:27,280 Speaker 1: Don't let anybody go in there playing. Yeah, all right, 385 00:25:27,359 --> 00:25:34,800 Speaker 1: we got deputing home. They okay, I thank you. I 386 00:25:34,800 --> 00:25:37,400 Speaker 1: think it's always just worth mentioning. So many listeners reach 387 00:25:37,400 --> 00:25:40,959 Speaker 1: out on a regular basis giving us tips, and we 388 00:25:41,240 --> 00:25:43,640 Speaker 1: take every one of them seriously and do our very 389 00:25:43,680 --> 00:25:47,200 Speaker 1: best to go down the rabbit hole on each of them. 390 00:25:47,359 --> 00:25:50,520 Speaker 1: We've also had listeners reach out to say they thought 391 00:25:50,520 --> 00:25:52,960 Speaker 1: they heard something for example, and the nine one call, 392 00:25:53,520 --> 00:25:56,040 Speaker 1: was there something else in the background that maybe we 393 00:25:56,080 --> 00:25:59,520 Speaker 1: hadn't covered before, And we did look into that, for example, 394 00:25:59,600 --> 00:26:02,760 Speaker 1: and ultimately we weren't able to hear anything that wasn't 395 00:26:02,760 --> 00:26:06,240 Speaker 1: already reported about anything that listeners ond us. We put 396 00:26:06,240 --> 00:26:09,280 Speaker 1: through a very strict filter of whether or not it's 397 00:26:09,320 --> 00:26:11,639 Speaker 1: worth sharing on this platform. We don't want to share 398 00:26:11,680 --> 00:26:15,080 Speaker 1: any rumors or any mistruths because we know how toxic 399 00:26:15,119 --> 00:26:17,560 Speaker 1: that can be for the family. But yeah, we always 400 00:26:17,640 --> 00:26:20,760 Speaker 1: encourage our listeners to share and interact with the shop. 401 00:26:23,160 --> 00:26:26,240 Speaker 1: After finding Chris Roden Senior and Gary Rodin, Manly told 402 00:26:26,280 --> 00:26:29,240 Speaker 1: Kenepa she and her friend checked another trailer nearby and 403 00:26:29,320 --> 00:26:31,760 Speaker 1: found the bullet riddled bodies of Frankie Rodin and his 404 00:26:31,840 --> 00:26:35,960 Speaker 1: fiance Hannah Gilly. Mercifully, a baby boy whom Hannah Gilly 405 00:26:36,080 --> 00:26:42,160 Speaker 1: was likely nursing at the time survived, as would be expected. 406 00:26:42,280 --> 00:26:46,440 Speaker 1: Bobby Joe still feels the trauma of that day. Lassie's 407 00:26:46,480 --> 00:26:49,119 Speaker 1: and Jeff spoke with her niece who was very close 408 00:26:49,119 --> 00:26:53,960 Speaker 1: to Hanna. Me Rodendamy and Hannah were only like six 409 00:26:54,160 --> 00:26:57,119 Speaker 1: months and fourtune days apart, So you guys grew up together. 410 00:26:57,640 --> 00:27:00,840 Speaker 1: I leave you roped Togevery is pretty close her and 411 00:27:00,960 --> 00:27:04,240 Speaker 1: my little brother was close to him, and Christopher wasn't 412 00:27:04,359 --> 00:27:07,680 Speaker 1: very far apart either. When it first happened, like we 413 00:27:07,720 --> 00:27:10,359 Speaker 1: was all really close with each other. And after the 414 00:27:10,440 --> 00:27:13,840 Speaker 1: years started going out. The only other time we gather 415 00:27:14,000 --> 00:27:16,119 Speaker 1: is like when we want to do like a release 416 00:27:16,400 --> 00:27:19,320 Speaker 1: or a candlelighting for another year of them being dead. 417 00:27:19,840 --> 00:27:21,920 Speaker 1: I used to hang out a lot with Bobby Joe, 418 00:27:22,440 --> 00:27:25,600 Speaker 1: but like after everything happened, she just like completely changed. 419 00:27:27,119 --> 00:27:29,720 Speaker 1: When Bobby Joe takes the stand as the first witness 420 00:27:29,720 --> 00:27:32,639 Speaker 1: in the trial of George Wagner the fourth there is 421 00:27:32,680 --> 00:27:35,880 Speaker 1: no camera coverage. You know, a lot of people were 422 00:27:35,880 --> 00:27:38,639 Speaker 1: watching the live stream, a lot of questions why was that? 423 00:27:38,720 --> 00:27:42,080 Speaker 1: Why did that happen? Yeah, frustrating for people watching from home, 424 00:27:42,119 --> 00:27:44,320 Speaker 1: frustrating for all of us covering the trial as well. 425 00:27:44,359 --> 00:27:47,040 Speaker 1: It's because of an order from Judge Deering here that 426 00:27:47,119 --> 00:27:49,959 Speaker 1: allows witnesses to either opt in or opt out. They 427 00:27:49,960 --> 00:27:52,520 Speaker 1: can decide they don't want to be broadcasting that's video 428 00:27:52,680 --> 00:27:56,040 Speaker 1: or audio. We fought it, but the judge has ruled 429 00:27:56,119 --> 00:27:58,800 Speaker 1: officially before this trial started that that's the way it 430 00:27:58,880 --> 00:28:02,359 Speaker 1: is going to be Bobby Joe Manly tells her story 431 00:28:02,400 --> 00:28:05,760 Speaker 1: to the jury, the media furiously taking notes in lieu 432 00:28:05,800 --> 00:28:09,320 Speaker 1: of the camera feed. Bobby Joe, the youngest Manly sibling, 433 00:28:09,359 --> 00:28:12,240 Speaker 1: was the first to find the bodies. Chris was Dana's 434 00:28:12,240 --> 00:28:15,040 Speaker 1: ex husband. Bobby Joe and a friend, Billy Morgan, found 435 00:28:15,040 --> 00:28:17,359 Speaker 1: a trail of blood leading to the bedroom. Chris and 436 00:28:17,440 --> 00:28:19,639 Speaker 1: his cousin Gary were dead on the floor, covered by 437 00:28:19,640 --> 00:28:23,600 Speaker 1: a comfiter. The prosecution also showed the jury photos from 438 00:28:23,600 --> 00:28:26,879 Speaker 1: inside the trailers of Chris, Senior, Frankie, and Dana Rodin, 439 00:28:27,240 --> 00:28:30,840 Speaker 1: including where the Wagner family is accused of dragging Chris's 440 00:28:30,840 --> 00:28:36,359 Speaker 1: body back to his bedroom. There are three photos shown 441 00:28:36,359 --> 00:28:39,280 Speaker 1: to the jury. The first is pointing back from the 442 00:28:39,320 --> 00:28:42,600 Speaker 1: living room towards a cracked open front door. There's a 443 00:28:42,640 --> 00:28:45,480 Speaker 1: vacuum and a child's play chair in the corner. On 444 00:28:45,560 --> 00:28:49,480 Speaker 1: the couch are two camouflaged jackets. Kids shoes are strewn 445 00:28:49,480 --> 00:28:52,600 Speaker 1: about the floor. There's a stick on logo next to 446 00:28:52,600 --> 00:28:57,719 Speaker 1: the front door that says simply family. Another photo shows 447 00:28:57,720 --> 00:28:59,600 Speaker 1: what looks to be a kid's room with a crib. 448 00:29:00,440 --> 00:29:03,000 Speaker 1: The final photo is of a recliner in what looks 449 00:29:03,000 --> 00:29:05,560 Speaker 1: to be the living room. There's a one foot wide 450 00:29:05,560 --> 00:29:07,880 Speaker 1: streak of blood running from the base of the chair 451 00:29:08,120 --> 00:29:11,600 Speaker 1: across the floor to somewhere else in the house. Anjeanette 452 00:29:11,680 --> 00:29:13,760 Speaker 1: Levy was in the courtroom for the first morning of 453 00:29:13,800 --> 00:29:18,640 Speaker 1: testimony for Bobby Joe being on the stand. I thought 454 00:29:18,640 --> 00:29:22,360 Speaker 1: she did a really good job recalling some really horrific 455 00:29:22,400 --> 00:29:26,280 Speaker 1: events in her life, getting up there and testifying to 456 00:29:26,360 --> 00:29:29,760 Speaker 1: these really awful things that have happened to their family 457 00:29:30,480 --> 00:29:33,560 Speaker 1: and finding them and all of the things that they saw. 458 00:29:34,160 --> 00:29:36,680 Speaker 1: Also on the stand today was a Pike County deputy 459 00:29:36,720 --> 00:29:40,200 Speaker 1: who responded to the scene. In fact, they got flagged 460 00:29:40,240 --> 00:29:43,400 Speaker 1: down by Bobby Joe outside of Frankie Rodin and Hannah 461 00:29:43,400 --> 00:29:47,760 Speaker 1: Hazel Gilly's house. I don't think anybody really wants to 462 00:29:47,800 --> 00:29:50,440 Speaker 1: do that. When you're in public service, it's your job, 463 00:29:50,720 --> 00:29:53,520 Speaker 1: and this is the biggest murder case in Ohio history. 464 00:29:54,880 --> 00:29:57,480 Speaker 1: I'm so mad about this whole opting out crap, Like, 465 00:29:57,560 --> 00:30:00,640 Speaker 1: if these family members can get up there talk about 466 00:30:00,680 --> 00:30:04,320 Speaker 1: these awful things, as it's somebody paid by the taxpayers, 467 00:30:04,320 --> 00:30:05,960 Speaker 1: you should be able to get up there too and 468 00:30:06,040 --> 00:30:08,920 Speaker 1: show your face and talk about this. It's one thing 469 00:30:08,960 --> 00:30:14,280 Speaker 1: to be fearful if you fear retribution. I can understand 470 00:30:14,320 --> 00:30:18,120 Speaker 1: being scared. In this case, I understand Bobby Joe Manley. 471 00:30:18,400 --> 00:30:21,400 Speaker 1: She seems like a very quiet person. I get that. 472 00:30:22,400 --> 00:30:26,360 Speaker 1: When you have people in public service opting out, what 473 00:30:26,440 --> 00:30:29,720 Speaker 1: message does that send? It also doesn't send a good message. 474 00:30:29,760 --> 00:30:32,720 Speaker 1: When this is a an area that sees a lot 475 00:30:32,720 --> 00:30:34,800 Speaker 1: of police corruption, or at least has seen a lot 476 00:30:34,840 --> 00:30:37,280 Speaker 1: of police corruption, you would think you'd want to get 477 00:30:37,320 --> 00:30:39,200 Speaker 1: up there and take a stand and say, you know what, 478 00:30:39,360 --> 00:30:42,440 Speaker 1: this is the process, this is the accountability we can offer, 479 00:30:43,120 --> 00:30:46,160 Speaker 1: and it's been done right, and we aren't going to 480 00:30:46,200 --> 00:30:49,400 Speaker 1: allow this type of thing to happen in our community. 481 00:30:50,760 --> 00:30:54,160 Speaker 1: Dana Rodin and Bobby Joe Manley's brother, James Manley, does 482 00:30:54,200 --> 00:30:57,640 Speaker 1: not opt out. His testimony gives us the first word 483 00:30:57,640 --> 00:31:00,040 Speaker 1: for word account of what happened that morning from the 484 00:31:00,120 --> 00:31:03,760 Speaker 1: perspective of the surviving members of the Rodent family. His 485 00:31:03,880 --> 00:31:08,760 Speaker 1: words are few, good afternoon, How are you all right? Okay? 486 00:31:09,000 --> 00:31:11,280 Speaker 1: Can you please state your name for the record and 487 00:31:11,440 --> 00:31:19,240 Speaker 1: spell your last name? James okay? Okay? And mister Manley, 488 00:31:19,240 --> 00:31:26,560 Speaker 1: how old are you? Forty six? Okay? James Manly has 489 00:31:26,560 --> 00:31:29,680 Speaker 1: a beard and wears a black shirt. He sits back 490 00:31:29,720 --> 00:31:33,800 Speaker 1: in his chair near the wall manly largely answers ange 491 00:31:33,880 --> 00:31:39,760 Speaker 1: Geneppa's questions with one or two word answers. I know 492 00:31:39,840 --> 00:31:44,280 Speaker 1: this witness isn't showing much emotion right now here on 493 00:31:44,320 --> 00:31:49,160 Speaker 1: the stand. However, I can't imagine what it would be 494 00:31:49,240 --> 00:31:53,760 Speaker 1: like to come upon that crime scene and see all 495 00:31:53,800 --> 00:31:57,240 Speaker 1: of that. I think he's amazingly composed in that he's 496 00:31:57,360 --> 00:32:00,360 Speaker 1: describing probably the most horrific day of his life. And 497 00:32:00,520 --> 00:32:02,680 Speaker 1: to ask him to go through that step by step 498 00:32:02,840 --> 00:32:05,560 Speaker 1: without breaking down, without being emotional, I think he's doing 499 00:32:05,600 --> 00:32:07,360 Speaker 1: a really good job. This prosect, I think can do 500 00:32:07,400 --> 00:32:11,320 Speaker 1: a better job helping that witness paint that awful picture 501 00:32:11,720 --> 00:32:14,240 Speaker 1: for the jury. If you have a witness that isn't 502 00:32:14,280 --> 00:32:17,920 Speaker 1: as talkative as other people might be, the onus is 503 00:32:17,920 --> 00:32:20,800 Speaker 1: on the prosecutor to then kind of get as close 504 00:32:20,800 --> 00:32:22,880 Speaker 1: to a leading question as you can get, or as 505 00:32:22,920 --> 00:32:25,280 Speaker 1: the judge might allow, because you're just not going to 506 00:32:25,360 --> 00:32:35,480 Speaker 1: get it from the witness. Let's stop here for another break. Oh. 507 00:32:35,480 --> 00:32:39,600 Speaker 1: I'm Carol Fisher, and I'm hosting a podcast called The Girlfriends. 508 00:32:39,600 --> 00:32:42,680 Speaker 1: Back in the nineteen nineties in Las Vegas, a few 509 00:32:42,680 --> 00:32:46,680 Speaker 1: of us dated the most eligible bachelor in town. Bob 510 00:32:47,240 --> 00:32:52,920 Speaker 1: he spoke several languages, he did medical missionary work, and 511 00:32:53,320 --> 00:32:57,640 Speaker 1: he was Jewish. He was perfect on paper, but he wasn't. 512 00:32:57,800 --> 00:33:02,760 Speaker 1: He really wasn't hoped and to the point she went unconscious. 513 00:33:03,160 --> 00:33:07,240 Speaker 1: Bob could lie about anything, but only takes the one 514 00:33:07,320 --> 00:33:11,280 Speaker 1: time when somebody ends up dead. Unfortunately for Bob, us 515 00:33:11,320 --> 00:33:14,240 Speaker 1: girlfriends know how to fight back. I wanted him to 516 00:33:14,280 --> 00:33:17,760 Speaker 1: pay for his crime. He needed to be put to justice. 517 00:33:17,840 --> 00:33:19,400 Speaker 1: I'll be honest with you. If I saw him right now, 518 00:33:19,440 --> 00:33:21,760 Speaker 1: I'd spit on him. I would call him and I 519 00:33:21,800 --> 00:33:24,600 Speaker 1: would say, I know you killed my sister. I will 520 00:33:24,680 --> 00:33:27,640 Speaker 1: always hound you and haunt you. You can listen to 521 00:33:27,680 --> 00:33:31,840 Speaker 1: the girl Friends on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or 522 00:33:31,880 --> 00:33:36,760 Speaker 1: wherever you get your podcasts from iHeart podcasts. Whitney hell 523 00:33:36,880 --> 00:33:40,360 Speaker 1: is going on here. Everyone has their limits. I'd never 524 00:33:40,400 --> 00:33:42,720 Speaker 1: confronted a situation like this. I just thought it was 525 00:33:42,760 --> 00:33:46,240 Speaker 1: just a really terrible, immoral thing, a line they won't cross. 526 00:33:46,480 --> 00:33:49,920 Speaker 1: I was stunned, and I just said, no, we're killing people. 527 00:33:50,360 --> 00:33:53,160 Speaker 1: You may never have to face that decision when you 528 00:33:53,200 --> 00:33:57,560 Speaker 1: find yourself at that lineouts ricin Orn's Ricin and somebody 529 00:33:57,680 --> 00:34:00,600 Speaker 1: needs to just for once give everybody the whole truth, 530 00:34:01,040 --> 00:34:05,160 Speaker 1: like this is evil and the only person who can 531 00:34:05,240 --> 00:34:09,320 Speaker 1: sound the alarm is you. I wasn't just gonna sit silently. 532 00:34:09,440 --> 00:34:14,600 Speaker 1: Buy from iHeart Podcasts. These are the whistleblowers. If you 533 00:34:14,680 --> 00:34:17,200 Speaker 1: are disloyal, things are going to happen to speak out 534 00:34:17,360 --> 00:34:23,480 Speaker 1: disgrace to our cut. Evil should be prosecuted when power corrupts. 535 00:34:23,760 --> 00:34:28,040 Speaker 1: Conscience is the last line of defense. I'm Miles Taylor. 536 00:34:28,400 --> 00:34:32,120 Speaker 1: Listen to the Whistleblowers on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, 537 00:34:32,360 --> 00:34:40,760 Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcasts. My name's Laverne Cox. 538 00:34:40,960 --> 00:34:44,920 Speaker 1: I'm an actress, producer, fashionista, and host of The Laverne 539 00:34:44,960 --> 00:34:47,920 Speaker 1: Cox Show. You may remember my award winning first season. 540 00:34:49,440 --> 00:34:52,400 Speaker 1: I've been pretty busy. There's always time to touch incredible 541 00:34:52,440 --> 00:34:55,640 Speaker 1: guests about important things people like me have been screaming 542 00:34:55,760 --> 00:34:57,880 Speaker 1: for years. We've got to watch the Supreme Court. What 543 00:34:58,000 --> 00:35:00,440 Speaker 1: they're doing is wrong, what they're doing is evil. They 544 00:35:00,480 --> 00:35:03,320 Speaker 1: will take things away and I can only hope that 545 00:35:03,560 --> 00:35:06,160 Speaker 1: Dobbs is that like Pearl Harbor moment, gro You and 546 00:35:06,280 --> 00:35:08,840 Speaker 1: I both know what it to just get through the 547 00:35:08,960 --> 00:35:11,480 Speaker 1: day in New York City and get home in one piece. 548 00:35:12,000 --> 00:35:14,520 Speaker 1: And so the fact that we're here and what you've 549 00:35:14,560 --> 00:35:18,799 Speaker 1: achieved and what I've achieved, you know, that's momentous. It's 550 00:35:18,840 --> 00:35:21,680 Speaker 1: not just sitting around complaining about some bills. The only 551 00:35:21,800 --> 00:35:23,960 Speaker 1: reason that you might think, as Chase said, that we're 552 00:35:24,000 --> 00:35:27,360 Speaker 1: always miserable is because people are constantly attacking us and 553 00:35:27,400 --> 00:35:30,359 Speaker 1: we're constantly noticing it. Listen to The Verne Cock Show 554 00:35:30,440 --> 00:35:34,239 Speaker 1: on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast or wherever you get 555 00:35:34,280 --> 00:35:40,759 Speaker 1: your podcast. Be sure to subscribe and share. Hello and 556 00:35:40,960 --> 00:35:43,879 Speaker 1: welcome to Bad Manners. This is the podcast that takes 557 00:35:43,920 --> 00:35:47,280 Speaker 1: you inside Britain's stately homes and tells all the tales 558 00:35:47,560 --> 00:35:50,960 Speaker 1: the guide books don't. My name is Tom Horton and 559 00:35:51,080 --> 00:35:54,960 Speaker 1: I'll be your host. Britain is riddled with the big houses, 560 00:35:55,080 --> 00:35:59,680 Speaker 1: from crumbling castles, massive mansions and stately piles bigger than 561 00:35:59,719 --> 00:36:02,719 Speaker 1: Buck Palace. As a comedian, I'm not really bothered about 562 00:36:02,719 --> 00:36:04,920 Speaker 1: the facts and figures. I just want the juicy stuff. 563 00:36:05,000 --> 00:36:07,200 Speaker 1: So I'm on a mission to find out the frightening, 564 00:36:07,600 --> 00:36:11,240 Speaker 1: filthy and downright jaw dropping stories of these stately homes 565 00:36:11,640 --> 00:36:16,160 Speaker 1: and the people in him. This podcast ventures deep inside 566 00:36:16,200 --> 00:36:20,160 Speaker 1: some of Britain's most incredible and outrageous buildings to spill 567 00:36:20,239 --> 00:36:25,120 Speaker 1: the tea on the scandalous, scary, shocking and hilarious Tales. 568 00:36:25,320 --> 00:36:28,560 Speaker 1: So if you want to get historically horrid, royally raucus 569 00:36:28,800 --> 00:36:32,399 Speaker 1: and down to dirty, look no further. Listen to Bad 570 00:36:32,480 --> 00:36:36,440 Speaker 1: Manners on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you 571 00:36:36,480 --> 00:36:47,640 Speaker 1: get your podcasts. Andrew Kneppa coax is more information out 572 00:36:47,680 --> 00:36:50,160 Speaker 1: of James Manley, the only son in a family of 573 00:36:50,239 --> 00:36:54,759 Speaker 1: three sisters. He uses the present tense to describe sister 574 00:36:54,880 --> 00:36:58,000 Speaker 1: Cathy and the past tense to speak about his late 575 00:36:58,040 --> 00:37:02,520 Speaker 1: sister Diana Roden. No white, Dad took off find her 576 00:37:02,640 --> 00:37:08,719 Speaker 1: something was wrong and then what did you do? Jumped 577 00:37:08,760 --> 00:37:13,399 Speaker 1: in what's up? And followed him up to and where 578 00:37:13,480 --> 00:37:19,399 Speaker 1: did you go? Frankie has okay. When he gets there, 579 00:37:19,480 --> 00:37:23,440 Speaker 1: he finds Bobby Joe Manley distraught holding Hannah Hazel, Gilly 580 00:37:23,640 --> 00:37:28,000 Speaker 1: and Frankie Roden's baby. Ask her what can Hael happen? Okay, 581 00:37:29,120 --> 00:37:32,880 Speaker 1: you asked, Bobby Joe. Bobby Joe breaks the news to 582 00:37:32,960 --> 00:37:36,840 Speaker 1: her brother James about the four murders. Manly enters Frankie 583 00:37:36,920 --> 00:37:40,000 Speaker 1: and Hannah Hazel's house. Can you describe what you saw? 584 00:37:42,320 --> 00:37:46,600 Speaker 1: Blood everywhere? You said blood everywhere, okay? And when you 585 00:37:46,680 --> 00:37:50,000 Speaker 1: say blood everywhere, can you tell us where specifics? On 586 00:37:50,120 --> 00:37:54,080 Speaker 1: the body on the bed, on the walls. Frankie Rodin 587 00:37:54,160 --> 00:37:57,960 Speaker 1: and his fiance Hannah Hazel Gilly dead in bed. Hazel 588 00:37:57,960 --> 00:37:59,960 Speaker 1: had been nursing. They're months old son at the time. 589 00:38:00,400 --> 00:38:03,200 Speaker 1: James Manly then drove to his sister Dana's house down 590 00:38:03,200 --> 00:38:05,680 Speaker 1: the road to tell her her son was dead. After 591 00:38:05,719 --> 00:38:07,440 Speaker 1: you knocked on the door and it opened, What did 592 00:38:07,480 --> 00:38:12,359 Speaker 1: you do? Put you out of her name? Then? What happened? Live? 593 00:38:13,640 --> 00:38:19,080 Speaker 1: Kept you on her name? What dirt bedsum? At this point, 594 00:38:19,160 --> 00:38:22,600 Speaker 1: Manly is showing emotion. His face is flushed as he 595 00:38:22,719 --> 00:38:27,200 Speaker 1: describes finding his sister Dana Roden's room is dark. He 596 00:38:27,360 --> 00:38:29,840 Speaker 1: feels along the foot of her bed and touches her foot. 597 00:38:30,840 --> 00:38:36,520 Speaker 1: He tries to wake her up. Man toward her head. 598 00:38:37,320 --> 00:38:39,080 Speaker 1: And when you got to where you thought her head was, 599 00:38:39,160 --> 00:38:41,720 Speaker 1: what did you do? And I felt like a pillow 600 00:38:41,760 --> 00:38:44,560 Speaker 1: of her head. I started picked a pillow up, and 601 00:38:45,120 --> 00:38:48,160 Speaker 1: you feel like stuck. So you started lifting up the pillow, 602 00:38:48,239 --> 00:38:51,000 Speaker 1: but you could feel that it was sticking, yeah, or 603 00:38:51,040 --> 00:38:55,360 Speaker 1: it was stuck. Yeah, okay, And you said then you 604 00:38:56,360 --> 00:38:58,000 Speaker 1: ran out of the house or when I just turned 605 00:38:58,000 --> 00:39:01,560 Speaker 1: around and walked back out? Okay? And why did you 606 00:39:01,680 --> 00:39:09,240 Speaker 1: do that? Like, what did you think because there did okay? 607 00:39:09,480 --> 00:39:14,239 Speaker 1: What made you think that? Cause bred pillow stuff? Did 608 00:39:14,280 --> 00:39:18,640 Speaker 1: you hear anything in the house? He could hear his niece, 609 00:39:18,880 --> 00:39:21,680 Speaker 1: Hannah May Rowden's new baby crying in another room. He 610 00:39:21,760 --> 00:39:26,120 Speaker 1: just couldn't bring himself to look. She was dead there too, 611 00:39:26,520 --> 00:39:30,640 Speaker 1: her brother Chris Junior dead and yet another room. The 612 00:39:30,760 --> 00:39:34,439 Speaker 1: final testimony of day one is from Justin Wearing. He's 613 00:39:34,480 --> 00:39:36,920 Speaker 1: one of the EMT drivers who gets to Frankie and 614 00:39:37,080 --> 00:39:41,720 Speaker 1: Hannah Hazel's house shortly after James Manley does. When he arrives, 615 00:39:41,960 --> 00:39:45,839 Speaker 1: he sees kids in the yard. There were two. There 616 00:39:46,000 --> 00:39:48,520 Speaker 1: was a young child that was probably four or five 617 00:39:48,640 --> 00:39:52,279 Speaker 1: years old that was running around in the yard. And 618 00:39:52,400 --> 00:39:55,560 Speaker 1: then there was a infant child who was around six 619 00:39:55,680 --> 00:40:00,600 Speaker 1: months old. And did you notice anything unusual about the infant? 620 00:40:01,080 --> 00:40:05,120 Speaker 1: The infant was covered with blood. His vibra was saturated 621 00:40:05,200 --> 00:40:10,160 Speaker 1: with blood. Images of an infant covered in the blood 622 00:40:10,200 --> 00:40:13,200 Speaker 1: of his family are difficult to comprehend for everyone in 623 00:40:13,239 --> 00:40:16,319 Speaker 1: the courtroom. This is only the beginning of a long, 624 00:40:16,480 --> 00:40:19,360 Speaker 1: dark journey full of the horrific details of what happened 625 00:40:19,400 --> 00:40:22,600 Speaker 1: that night in Pike County. We are also getting a 626 00:40:22,719 --> 00:40:25,360 Speaker 1: first look at the crime scenes in the Pike County massacre, 627 00:40:25,520 --> 00:40:27,800 Speaker 1: and we want to warn you some of the images 628 00:40:27,840 --> 00:40:30,920 Speaker 1: are disturbing. We don't really know the full scope of 629 00:40:31,000 --> 00:40:34,919 Speaker 1: what the Rodent family faced. Does the prosecution hold back 630 00:40:35,000 --> 00:40:38,000 Speaker 1: any level of violence or the gore of that, or 631 00:40:38,080 --> 00:40:40,239 Speaker 1: do they just put it all out there for them 632 00:40:40,320 --> 00:40:43,719 Speaker 1: to see. Can you imagine the level of grief and 633 00:40:43,840 --> 00:40:46,200 Speaker 1: despair they have to sit there and look at these 634 00:40:46,360 --> 00:40:49,520 Speaker 1: autopsy photos. One of the issues, for instance, will be 635 00:40:49,719 --> 00:40:52,319 Speaker 1: ranged a fire. You know, how far was it from 636 00:40:52,400 --> 00:40:54,960 Speaker 1: the end of the muzzle to a bullet hole in 637 00:40:55,040 --> 00:40:59,120 Speaker 1: the forehead. I don't know that people can fully fathom 638 00:40:59,640 --> 00:41:05,840 Speaker 1: what went on in those molds. It's monboggle. More on 639 00:41:05,960 --> 00:41:10,000 Speaker 1: that next time. For more information on the case and 640 00:41:10,120 --> 00:41:14,840 Speaker 1: relevant photos, follow us on Instagram at Katie Underscore Studios. 641 00:41:15,800 --> 00:41:19,160 Speaker 1: The Piked and Masker is produced by Stephanie Lydecker, Jeff Shane, 642 00:41:19,440 --> 00:41:24,160 Speaker 1: Chris Graves, Scott de Graw, Andrew Arnow and me Courtney Armstrong. 643 00:41:25,120 --> 00:41:29,360 Speaker 1: Editing and sound designed by Jeff Tua. Music by Jared Aston. 644 00:41:30,000 --> 00:41:32,440 Speaker 1: The Piked and Masker is a production of iHeartRadio and 645 00:41:32,560 --> 00:41:36,439 Speaker 1: Katie Studios. For more podcasts from my Heart Radio, visit 646 00:41:36,520 --> 00:41:40,000 Speaker 1: the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you 647 00:41:40,160 --> 00:41:46,440 Speaker 1: listen to your favorite shows. I'm Carol Fisher and I'm 648 00:41:46,480 --> 00:41:50,240 Speaker 1: hosting a podcast called The girl Friends. It's Las Vegas, 649 00:41:50,480 --> 00:41:53,680 Speaker 1: it's the nineteen nineties, and it is time to find 650 00:41:53,760 --> 00:41:58,040 Speaker 1: a husband. There were four Jewish doctors who were felt 651 00:41:58,080 --> 00:42:02,759 Speaker 1: to be eligible bachelors. One of them was the spot Barrenmount. 652 00:42:03,040 --> 00:42:07,520 Speaker 1: On paper, he was perfect, but in reality, this guy's 653 00:42:07,560 --> 00:42:11,560 Speaker 1: a wacko. He choked and to the point she went unconscious. 654 00:42:11,800 --> 00:42:14,000 Speaker 1: I would call him and I would say, I know 655 00:42:14,120 --> 00:42:17,000 Speaker 1: you killed my sister. You can listen to the Girlfriends 656 00:42:17,120 --> 00:42:21,160 Speaker 1: on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get 657 00:42:21,200 --> 00:42:24,640 Speaker 1: your podcasts. I'm will daily. For years, I've been on 658 00:42:24,680 --> 00:42:27,279 Speaker 1: the road playing shows and seeing America through live music. 659 00:42:27,840 --> 00:42:29,840 Speaker 1: This summer, I'll hit the stage. Who Season two of 660 00:42:29,880 --> 00:42:34,400 Speaker 1: Sound of Our Town ten Cities twelve episodes every other Thursday. 661 00:42:34,800 --> 00:42:37,080 Speaker 1: We explore the live music venues and culture of a 662 00:42:37,160 --> 00:42:40,440 Speaker 1: new American city. With each new episode, our tour continues 663 00:42:40,440 --> 00:42:41,960 Speaker 1: into the kind of venues you want to get to 664 00:42:42,040 --> 00:42:46,600 Speaker 1: when you landed in Detroit, Providence, Denver or Seattle. Listen 665 00:42:46,640 --> 00:42:49,160 Speaker 1: to Sound of Our Town on the iHeartRadio app, Apple 666 00:42:49,239 --> 00:42:54,000 Speaker 1: Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. This is the 667 00:42:54,120 --> 00:42:57,600 Speaker 1: story of a man who's fascinated me. His name was 668 00:42:57,719 --> 00:43:01,000 Speaker 1: Sweet Daddy Grace, and that's a name you don't forget. 669 00:43:01,560 --> 00:43:04,160 Speaker 1: He was a visionary who built a fortune as a 670 00:43:04,239 --> 00:43:08,600 Speaker 1: black man during Jim Crow during the Depression. But today 671 00:43:09,080 --> 00:43:12,239 Speaker 1: not many people know about him. The race sort of 672 00:43:12,360 --> 00:43:15,760 Speaker 1: wiped out, and I wonder if this was done intentionally. 673 00:43:16,280 --> 00:43:20,120 Speaker 1: Listen to Sweet Daddy Grace on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, 674 00:43:20,440 --> 00:43:24,520 Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, I'm free, Are 675 00:43:24,840 --> 00:43:27,600 Speaker 1: and I'm rthy. We have spent the last twenty years 676 00:43:27,920 --> 00:43:30,480 Speaker 1: building and working at some of the largest companies in 677 00:43:30,520 --> 00:43:34,040 Speaker 1: the world. We worked with some remarkable people, Rob mclenny. 678 00:43:34,200 --> 00:43:36,080 Speaker 1: When I see the people of Wrexham, I grew up 679 00:43:36,120 --> 00:43:38,879 Speaker 1: exactly like them. Check out the Art and Tree Arm Show. 680 00:43:39,239 --> 00:43:43,640 Speaker 1: That is a R D HI and s R I 681 00:43:44,280 --> 00:43:47,719 Speaker 1: R A M show. Listen to the Art Instree Arm 682 00:43:47,760 --> 00:43:51,400 Speaker 1: Show on the iHeart Radio app, Apple podcasts or wherever 683 00:43:51,520 --> 00:43:52,520 Speaker 1: you get your podcasts,