Speaker 1: Strange Arrivals is a production of I Heart three D
Speaker 1: audio for full exposure, listen with headphones. Do I really
Speaker 1: need to tell you who Chris Carter is. He's the
Speaker 1: creator of The X Files, which is one of the
Speaker 1: iconic TV shows and probably the best known piece of
Speaker 1: popular culture to deal with the paranormal and issues of
Speaker 1: skepticism and belief. I talked to him in December of
Speaker 1: a quick note Chris mentions Bud Hopkins, David Jacobs, and
Speaker 1: John Mack. The end of season one of Strange Arrivals
Speaker 1: looks at their work, particularly Hopkins. In addition, I interviewed
Speaker 1: Carol Rainey, who is Bud hopkins ex wife and former
Speaker 1: research partner, about him and his research. That interview is
Speaker 1: a bonus episode from season one. So with that in mind,
Speaker 1: here's my chat with Chris Carter. Could you introduce yourself
Speaker 1: Chris Carter, best known as creator of The X Files.
Speaker 1: Let's talk a little bit about the origin of the
Speaker 1: X Files. How did you come up with that idea
Speaker 1: or who did you work with? I had an idea
Speaker 1: way back in the nighties. There was a show on
Speaker 1: that I loved when I was a kid called Cold Check.
Speaker 1: The night Stalker. It was the scariest thing I've ever
Speaker 1: seen on TV. So I thought, there's nothing scary on TV.
Speaker 1: Why don't I try to do a show that is
Speaker 1: as scary as that one. I pitched the idea to
Speaker 1: Brandon Chartikoff when I was at NBC, and he passed
Speaker 1: on it. And then I was hired by twenty Century
Speaker 1: Fox to create TV shows, and I pitched the same
Speaker 1: idea to Peter Roth, and he said he had been
Speaker 1: thinking about the same thing. So I sat down and
Speaker 1: came up with the characters of Moldern Scully FBI agents.
Speaker 1: I was inspired, especially you can see Scully's red hair
Speaker 1: by Silence of the Lambs. That was an early inspiration.
Speaker 1: So I came up with these two characters, and I
Speaker 1: kind of turned the tables on what would be the
Speaker 1: stereotypical believer in skeptic Maiden Molder the male, the believer
Speaker 1: in Scully the female the skeptic. I wanted to make
Speaker 1: her not only a doctor, but a scientist, so she
Speaker 1: could refute Molders claims with her hard science. So you
Speaker 1: had this idea for a series that would be scary,
Speaker 1: and how did you know? How did UFOs come to
Speaker 1: be serve a central part of that. There were two
Speaker 1: things I've been reading about UFOs and alien abductions. But
Speaker 1: also I was given, just by chance, a survey called
Speaker 1: the Roper Survey, which was done by Dr John Mack,
Speaker 1: who any UFO afficionado will know well, and it said
Speaker 1: that millions of Americans believed in the UFO phenomenon, some
Speaker 1: millions less believed they had actually seen a UFO, some
Speaker 1: millions less believed they had had contact, but that there
Speaker 1: was interest in the phenomenon. And so I thought the
Speaker 1: first thing and I would like to do is play
Speaker 1: with that in a personal way, making molder Sister an abducte,
Speaker 1: which is what his entry was into the world of
Speaker 1: the paranormal. What what kind of source material you're looking at?
Speaker 1: And yet you were, as you were thinking about the
Speaker 1: particularly the UFO component of the X Files, I had
Speaker 1: kind of three go to guys was Dr John mac,
Speaker 1: David Jacobs, and Bud Hopkins. Those were the three people
Speaker 1: that I read mostly and I had I really developed
Speaker 1: my uh sense of all things UFOs and and abductions
Speaker 1: through reading their books. Yeah, I would say that those
Speaker 1: are my go to guys. You know, I know that
Speaker 1: those three were really sort of involved in in the
Speaker 1: sort of abduction movement, I guess in the in the
Speaker 1: eighties and nineties. But it seems like there's also these
Speaker 1: other components two the X files UFO sort of mythos um,
Speaker 1: one of which is, you know, the government conspiracy. The
Speaker 1: government knows more than they're letting on. They're doing a
Speaker 1: lot to try and cover it up. What were some
Speaker 1: of the source material or the inspiration or whatever for that,
Speaker 1: you know, that's part of the literature. But I've always
Speaker 1: been interested in conspiracies, I think because I was a
Speaker 1: child of the Watergate era. You know, I was a
Speaker 1: disbeliever in what our government was telling us and a
Speaker 1: believer that they were keeping things from us. So they
Speaker 1: fit in perfect with the UFO literature, which is all
Speaker 1: about government, you know, black budget, secret operations and all
Speaker 1: the reasons there are for the government to keep the
Speaker 1: truth about extraterrestrial life from the American public, and those
Speaker 1: would you know, things that are you know, scientific, cultural, religious,
Speaker 1: It would upend a lot of the institutions, uh in society.
Speaker 1: And when you were looking at I guess particularly the
Speaker 1: Jacobs Hopkins mac stuff, like what was your what was
Speaker 1: your assessment of what they were coming up with. Did
Speaker 1: this seem more like sort of ideas for fictional storylines,
Speaker 1: or did it at the time seem sort of compelling
Speaker 1: as a possible um description of of things that were
Speaker 1: actually happening. And I asked partly because you know, I've
Speaker 1: talked to um people have made, you know, certainly less
Speaker 1: influential things about UFOs, and you know, for the large part,
Speaker 1: they seem to be really looking at sort of these
Speaker 1: fictional representations as a way of getting out something that
Speaker 1: they feel is at some level, you know, true or
Speaker 1: at least like highly possibly true. And I was kind
Speaker 1: of interested because it does seem like other than other
Speaker 1: you know, there's other things like if you're doing a
Speaker 1: Western and you're in you're and you're doing research into
Speaker 1: what was it like in the in the Western the
Speaker 1: eteen eighties and nineties or or what have you, that
Speaker 1: there's certain sort of you know, kind of undisputable facts
Speaker 1: or things that are I think, are you quote unquote
Speaker 1: true to whereas most of the ting about UFOs really
Speaker 1: seems in dispute. So it seems like that's a slightly
Speaker 1: different thing in figuring out what you want to use
Speaker 1: and how you want to use it. Am I Am
Speaker 1: I thinking too much about this? No? I mean I
Speaker 1: think even the believers, guys like David Jacobs and Bud
Speaker 1: Hopkins and John Matt they doubted certain accounts, and they
Speaker 1: doubted certain individuals, and they doubted themselves sometimes. But when
Speaker 1: three smart people do the kind of research that they
Speaker 1: did and come up with as a bottom line, I
Speaker 1: believe in the phenomenon. It's powerful, smart people doing investigative
Speaker 1: science on the subject. That was for me that was very,
Speaker 1: very powerful. They were the ones to help paint the
Speaker 1: picture that became the backdrop for the X Files Alien Mythology.
Speaker 1: Could you talk a little bit about the development of
Speaker 1: the mythology as as a series progress, because um, it
Speaker 1: sounds like you didn't have that altogether when the series started. No.
Speaker 1: I had what I would consider to be the kind
Speaker 1: of foundation of the mythology that was based in things
Speaker 1: that anybody could read about alien abductions and kind of
Speaker 1: classic scoopmark stars, the triangular shapes, it kind of shape
Speaker 1: that appeared on Scully's back and the pilot episode. So
Speaker 1: I had the ideas that I had taken from all
Speaker 1: of the accumulated science and background on alien abductions, and
Speaker 1: I created a world with the episode. Actually, if you
Speaker 1: watch the first and second episode of The X Files
Speaker 1: and the season finale, which is called The erlen Meyer Flask,
Speaker 1: you will really get a foundational view of the X
Speaker 1: Files mythology. Now, there's this idea that the government has
Speaker 1: been keeping all this stuff quiet secret for their own purposes,
Speaker 1: and that one day somebody will get them to disclose,
Speaker 1: or there will be reason to disclose the truth. I
Speaker 1: think that's where the X Files mythology took flight from
Speaker 1: the accepted Expiles mythology, and so we were imagining the
Speaker 1: world before disclosure and modern Scully as the people seeking
Speaker 1: to learn the truth. So you mentioned the Arlan Meyer Flask,
Speaker 1: which I watched recently with my daughter. You know that
Speaker 1: there's so many sort of iconic figures, I guess, and
Speaker 1: things that happen. You know, the smoking Man, he serve
Speaker 1: an iconic figure now, and there's a there's a deep
Speaker 1: throat figure, and you know the erlan Meyer Flask. There's
Speaker 1: they go to a warehouse sort of out of the way,
Speaker 1: sort of rundown warehouse and find, you know, what appeared
Speaker 1: to be Men Underwater being developed, or what have you.
Speaker 1: What sort of assumptions were you making about people's understanding
Speaker 1: of these issues or thoughts about these issues that kind
Speaker 1: of went in into creating the storyline. You know, I'm
Speaker 1: thinking also to U two episodes that morgana. Wong did.
Speaker 1: I'll preface that by saying, when we started out the show,
Speaker 1: I told this staff that I didn't want to I
Speaker 1: didn't want to see aliens for five years. I wanted
Speaker 1: to keep them in the shadows and the deep background.
Speaker 1: That lasted all of about a year. Glenn Morgan and
Speaker 1: James Wong did two great episodes, one called e B
Speaker 1: and another one called Little Green Men, and we actually
Speaker 1: did see an alien and Little Green Men, which was
Speaker 1: the season opener for season two. So we took a
Speaker 1: lot of what people knew about aliens or believed about
Speaker 1: aliens and UFOs, extraterrestrials and the government conspiracy. And there
Speaker 1: was a certain fascination with Roswell with the area one
Speaker 1: and I would call them not tropes, but they were
Speaker 1: part of the X file. I'm sorry, the extraterrestrial alien
Speaker 1: abduction UFO lore. You know, I think Bolder, Molder and
Speaker 1: Scully are I think of the iconic duos in uh
Speaker 1: in television history, at least in what I've watched. I
Speaker 1: think I think it's them in Kirk and Spock are
Speaker 1: sort of closest to my heart, and I think a
Speaker 1: lot of people's hearts. You know, there's clearly this interesting
Speaker 1: play between you know, skepticism and belief, And how did
Speaker 1: you see the arc across the seasons as far their
Speaker 1: relationship and they're edging each other towards their own beliefs.
Speaker 1: How do you see that that playing out? Well? I
Speaker 1: can speak to the structure of the way we did
Speaker 1: the seasons. We did I think six mythology episodes typically
Speaker 1: per season, three two parters actually, and that kind of
Speaker 1: became our formula. The way Molder and Scully approached the other,
Speaker 1: typically h sixteen to nineteen cases was by taking positions,
Speaker 1: by taking hard edged science versus a obdurate and determined
Speaker 1: belief in the paranormal on Molder side. And it became
Speaker 1: kind of competitive, and it became a really a long
Speaker 1: nine year flirtation between the two characters and a seduction
Speaker 1: of sorts. It's funny when you are selling your position,
Speaker 1: and this is something I always find interesting with Mulder
Speaker 1: and Scully. When you are selling your beliefs in your
Speaker 1: position and your your side to your to the other
Speaker 1: side to the opposition, which would if Mueller is selling
Speaker 1: to Scully, there's something seductive about it. It just became
Speaker 1: kind of the nature of the show. So when it ends,
Speaker 1: do you feel like Mulder has been more brought towards
Speaker 1: skepticism or Scully has been brought more towards belief or
Speaker 1: do you think they fight to a fight to a standstill? Well,
Speaker 1: you know, someone said, how can Scully go for nine
Speaker 1: years and still be a disbeliever with all she's seen?
Speaker 1: And so we played with that a little bit. We
Speaker 1: actually had her witness things and she came to the
Speaker 1: other side and Mulder went to skepticism. So we did
Speaker 1: play with that idea through the course of this show.
Speaker 1: But it's a fair argument that Scully uh seeing so
Speaker 1: much that she could had no answers for because science
Speaker 1: does not have answers for these things, that she would
Speaker 1: come to mother's side more readily than Mud would go
Speaker 1: to her side. When we first started this show, there
Speaker 1: was something interesting that happened. Fox had bought my pitch.
Speaker 1: They had liked my outline. They had liked the pilot script.
Speaker 1: We had begun casting and we had filmed the pilot.
Speaker 1: We had shown the pilot to the network. They were
Speaker 1: very happy with it, but they wanted me to put
Speaker 1: a disclaimer up before the show, saying that for the viewer,
Speaker 1: that these are all based on actual events. It was
Speaker 1: as if we were creating a kind of documentary in
Speaker 1: the network's mind. And I went along with it. But
Speaker 1: then it's like, for the pilot episode, I went along
Speaker 1: with it, but then it's like, I realized, that's not
Speaker 1: what the show is. The show is fictionalized, scripted storytelling
Speaker 1: vehicle for these characters Molder and Scully looking for the truth.
Speaker 1: And I said to them, you know, they wanted to
Speaker 1: wrap up the episodes at the end, kind of in
Speaker 1: a neat bow, with an explanation for what Malder and
Speaker 1: Scully had seen. And I said, that's exactly what you
Speaker 1: don't want. You don't want to have the answers. You
Speaker 1: want to be left with wonder, you want to be
Speaker 1: left with ah, you want to be left with your
Speaker 1: own opinions at the end. And it took me a
Speaker 1: real hard sales pitch to get them to understand that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: well that seems critical. Uh. You know, I think I
Speaker 1: feel like that's that's such a big part of the
Speaker 1: X Files, and I think part of what really captured
Speaker 1: people's imagination, even people talking about it today. Is there
Speaker 1: something that you're trying to get across, Especially in the
Speaker 1: in the Mythos episodes, I was trying to create a
Speaker 1: sense of awe and the idea that science doesn't have
Speaker 1: all the answers, and that religion doesn't have all the answers,
Speaker 1: and that there are things beyond the pale. I liked
Speaker 1: all that, but I also have to say I come
Speaker 1: at this from more Scully side than Molder's side, with
Speaker 1: a science bias, and it's I really have a kind
Speaker 1: of prove it to me philosophy. And so really it
Speaker 1: was me. The thesis was my own troubled perspective on
Speaker 1: what is true and what is not. I want to
Speaker 1: see an alien, I want to see a UFO. These
Speaker 1: are things that I want to believe in. But thus
Speaker 1: the poster on Molder's wall, I want to have my
Speaker 1: hopes confirmed. I want that experience, uh, and I'm longing
Speaker 1: for it as his Molder, But I'm also doubtful of
Speaker 1: it that I will ever have it, which is skilling.
Speaker 1: And so you know, in the course of you know,
Speaker 1: the research for the X files, and I'm sure you
Speaker 1: must have had zillions and sillions of people getting in
Speaker 1: touch with you about their experiences, how did you find
Speaker 1: or did you find that your thoughts about UFOs changed?
Speaker 1: You know, people ask me if I'm a believer or
Speaker 1: a skeptic, and I say, I'm a skeptic, but I
Speaker 1: have to say that with a asterisk because I've met
Speaker 1: so many people who tell so many believable stories, stories
Speaker 1: that they absolutely believe in that who am I to
Speaker 1: doubt them? So while I am skeptical because there isn't
Speaker 1: a lot of hard, hard evidence, There isn't a lot
Speaker 1: of come helling testimony that leads to the heart evidence.
Speaker 1: Uh there is, there are, just there are a lot
Speaker 1: of personal accounts that one can take with a grain
Speaker 1: of salt. So you didn't find I mean, did you
Speaker 1: ever feel like you were led on to something that
Speaker 1: that most people or just about everybody wouldn't have known
Speaker 1: in the course of this stuff. It clearly wasn't something
Speaker 1: that would have changed your mind. I didn't find anything
Speaker 1: that necessarily changed my mind. There was something interesting that
Speaker 1: I did that I had a chance to do, and
Speaker 1: and I had written about regression hypnosis, and this is
Speaker 1: the way Bud Hopkins worked and John mac worked, taking
Speaker 1: people back through their memories, maybe removing the screen memories
Speaker 1: that the aliens had implanted them with. And I actually
Speaker 1: got to sit in on a regression hypnosis went. I
Speaker 1: flew to Boston while the show was being produced and
Speaker 1: sat in on one of these events. And it was
Speaker 1: powerful to be sitting next to someone who is going
Speaker 1: through the abduction experience. In this case, it was someone
Speaker 1: who was taken from a campground. So who am I
Speaker 1: to say that it's not true when it seemed so
Speaker 1: vivid and powerful in this in this person's mind. Can
Speaker 1: you talk a little bit about the dynamic of the
Speaker 1: of the writing of the X Files and and you
Speaker 1: know the other things that kind of went into create
Speaker 1: eating the storyline and sort of the look and feel.
Speaker 1: They are very very strong. Yeah. I was really lucky
Speaker 1: to hire two teams of smart guys, and that would
Speaker 1: be people have mentioned already. Glenn Morgan and James Wong
Speaker 1: were a writing team, uh, and then a writing team
Speaker 1: of Howard Gordon and Alex Gonza, who were also too
Speaker 1: smart guys who went on to create Homeland together. So
Speaker 1: I had these capable people, and the way we began
Speaker 1: to work was we would gather together and people would
Speaker 1: pitch their ideas for episodes, and if the ideas were good,
Speaker 1: and they almost always were, that person would go and
Speaker 1: create a plot, so basically go to the drawing board
Speaker 1: and create the plot for the story. They would bring
Speaker 1: that plot, which was done on three buy five cards
Speaker 1: on a bulletin board, to the group and we would
Speaker 1: go through it and listen, and once again I got
Speaker 1: very lucky. People had very good ideas of how to
Speaker 1: develop the modern Scully storyline through horror, thriller, suspense, and
Speaker 1: paranormal episodes. So the X Files from the very beginning
Speaker 1: was not just going to be a UFO alien show.
Speaker 1: It was going to be more than that. And uh,
Speaker 1: I had actually created a marketing package before any of
Speaker 1: these people came on, when I turned the pilot and
Speaker 1: originally into twenty Century Fox, spelling out what the show was.
Speaker 1: So it just happened that I was able to pair
Speaker 1: with the right people to bring the idea of making
Speaker 1: it a horror show, a suspense show, a thriller, what
Speaker 1: have you. That it became really three fifths of the
Speaker 1: time it was something other than alien and aliens and UFOs.
Speaker 1: I'm really interested in this idea of working with other
Speaker 1: people on something that's essentially, you know, your brainchild. Was
Speaker 1: everybody sort of on the same page, particularly with Moulder
Speaker 1: and Scully and how they would react to certain things
Speaker 1: or was askedly that that was hashed out over the
Speaker 1: course of of meetings. You know, I have to say
Speaker 1: that the characters were they developed over time, that people
Speaker 1: added to them, that people created and created nuances for
Speaker 1: the characters. But the idea that they were the believer
Speaker 1: in the skeptic and their personalities were really came from
Speaker 1: the pilot. And so while everyone added to the creation
Speaker 1: in the most amazing ways, and the show wouldn't be
Speaker 1: the same without those additions. Modern Scully, I think, or
Speaker 1: Modern Scully from the beginning, and they just uh their
Speaker 1: characters and their stories and their backgrounds and their attitudes
Speaker 1: changed with time because that's the nature of producing a
Speaker 1: television show, right. Interesting, So what is it about UFOs
Speaker 1: that you think makes for good and compelling TV or movies?
Speaker 1: I think it's interesting because I think people look up
Speaker 1: into the sky at night and wonder if the truth
Speaker 1: is out there, if the if there are other civilizations.
Speaker 1: So it has a kind of human component to it,
Speaker 1: and the idea that the aliens have in many cases
Speaker 1: humanoid qualities, and that they actually seem to have some
Speaker 1: steak and humanity and they have some either good or
Speaker 1: bad purposes for being year it's our fear of the
Speaker 1: other that is natural, and in this case, I think
Speaker 1: it's the fear of a another that has either a
Speaker 1: good or evil intent. Have you been have you been
Speaker 1: following what's been going on recently, you know, in the
Speaker 1: last couple of years, the revelations that the Pentagon continued
Speaker 1: to have a quote unquote UFO program up until very recently.
Speaker 1: You know, you have Marco Rubio, Senator Marco Rubio asking
Speaker 1: the Department of Defense to give him unclassified report of
Speaker 1: what they've been doing and what they potentially know. Do
Speaker 1: you have thoughts? Yeah? I do. I mean Obama asked
Speaker 1: the Defense Department for any files. Hillary Clinton, who with
Speaker 1: John Fodesta on her staff, we're avid believers, or I
Speaker 1: should say want to believers, and the phenomenon were had
Speaker 1: even said during our campaign that they were going to
Speaker 1: get to the bottom of it. So you know, this
Speaker 1: has been going on for quite a while. People want
Speaker 1: to know. I think Bill Clinton wanted to know, and
Speaker 1: so Marco Rubio is just the latest in a long line.
Speaker 1: I think. I thought it was interesting that Harry Reid
Speaker 1: basically did have a secret alien project UFO project that
Speaker 1: he financed with taxpayer dollars, which was not I was
Speaker 1: not unsurprised. How do you how do you look at
Speaker 1: the legacy of the X Files. That's a big question,
Speaker 1: you know. I hope that it was nine years of
Speaker 1: quality entertainment. Two put a big stamp on the whole thing.
Speaker 1: But I think that what as you say, modern skelling
Speaker 1: the iconic duo, I think this show was always While
Speaker 1: it was about a group of or I should say,
Speaker 1: a file cabinet full of spiles of the unknown, it
Speaker 1: really was a show about Molder and Scully in their relationship.
Speaker 1: So I think the legacy is those two characters. It's
Speaker 1: funny the way Molder and Scully now kind of rolls
Speaker 1: off the tongue and you know exactly what you know
Speaker 1: that means the believer in the skeptic and that I
Speaker 1: would take you know, that name Molder, which isn't the
Speaker 1: most poetic, malifluous name, and parrot with Scully and somehow
Speaker 1: Mulder and Scully sounds as if the two characters have
Speaker 1: existed forever. Yeah. Absolutely, What if I missed? Is are
Speaker 1: there other? Is there something else that people should know? Now?
Speaker 1: You know, it's funny when you when I think about
Speaker 1: the show, I think about you know, it was always
Speaker 1: surprising to me. I was mentioning the writers and what
Speaker 1: people would bring in was always interesting to me and
Speaker 1: things I hadn't imagined, takes on the show that I
Speaker 1: haven't imagined. But once those scripts were written, you are
Speaker 1: our first audience was always the crew, and you knew
Speaker 1: that if the crew liked an episode, it was a
Speaker 1: good episode. They were our toughest critics and they really
Speaker 1: invested themselves in the show because they liked the show.
Speaker 1: But I think about taking a script and handing it
Speaker 1: over to the people like the production designers and seeing
Speaker 1: what they came up with, what their visions were, and
Speaker 1: it seems like every episode they always came up with
Speaker 1: something that none of us quite imagined, or a way
Speaker 1: to do something that none of us quite imagined. I
Speaker 1: think the pilot episode was done by Michael Namursky, and
Speaker 1: then the five seasons. The next five seasons were Graham Murray,
Speaker 1: Uh these people, Uh she speak to a case in point,
Speaker 1: Dwayne Berry. What Graham Murray came up with for an
Speaker 1: examination table of this character? Dwayne Berry, surrounded by Gray
Speaker 1: Aliens was production design costume, said Deck. You know, all
Speaker 1: these people came together and created something that was better
Speaker 1: than I ever imagined. Yeah, did you did you know
Speaker 1: at the time, well you're working at this on this
Speaker 1: that this would have like a very long life beyond
Speaker 1: its initial run. No, there are so many pitfalls that
Speaker 1: are you try to avoid through the process, and they
Speaker 1: are They could be one bad note from a studio
Speaker 1: executive could change the course of the show, much like
Speaker 1: I was. You know, there was something that Jillian Anderson
Speaker 1: became pregnant during the first season of the show, and
Speaker 1: we scrambled because we didn't know what to do, how
Speaker 1: to uh if she was going to be pregnant for
Speaker 1: the whole first part of the second season, how we
Speaker 1: were going to do Molder and Scully. And we figured
Speaker 1: out a clever way to do that, a way that
Speaker 1: actually played into the larger storyline. But I actually had
Speaker 1: a network executive say to me, you've got to get
Speaker 1: rid of her, and he was, you know, in no
Speaker 1: uncertain terms, And so you have to fight against that.
Speaker 1: You know, you can't establish these two characters and then
Speaker 1: just break them up because he uh doesn't want a
Speaker 1: pregnant woman working on the show. It worked out that
Speaker 1: we were able to film Scully and I think it
Speaker 1: was episode five of season two, and she is taken
Speaker 1: away by it. I just mentioned Dwyane Berry. She is
Speaker 1: abducted by this character, Dwayne Berry, which leads to what
Speaker 1: is supposed by Mother as an alien abduction. You know,
Speaker 1: there's actually one other thing I'd like to say about Sure.
Speaker 1: They talked about its origins, and I talked about Silence
Speaker 1: Phil Lambs, and you know, it was loomed huge in
Speaker 1: my mind. I loved the movie, and it's really that
Speaker 1: I was inspired by that Jodie Foster character to a
Speaker 1: large part. But I think that also and this actually
Speaker 1: plays out in an episode called Fire on the series
Speaker 1: UH in the first season, where Malder is paired with
Speaker 1: the British woman who refers to Sherlock Holmes. I read everything.
Speaker 1: I read all of Sherlock Holmes as a kid, and
Speaker 1: I loved that kind of storytelling. I loved Sherlock and
Speaker 1: and Watson's interplay, and I think that is a big
Speaker 1: for me, was a big part of the dynamic between
Speaker 1: Mother and Scully as well. People are gonna be really
Speaker 1: excited to hear this as I was excited to hear
Speaker 1: it myself. Thanks Kobe, Okay, thanks so much, Chris. Strange
Speaker 1: Arrivals is a production of I Heart three D Audio
Speaker 1: and Grim and Mild from Aaron Mankey. This episode was
Speaker 1: written and hosted by Toby Ball and produced by Miranda
Speaker 1: Hawkins and Josh Say, with executive producers Alex Williams, Matt Frederick,
Speaker 1: and Aaron Mankey. Learn more about Strange Rivals over at
Speaker 1: Grimm and Mild dot com, and find more podcasts from
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Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.