1
00:00:02,520 --> 00:00:07,040
Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio news.

2
00:00:07,800 --> 00:00:10,960
Speaker 2: This is the Bloomberg Dabaker Podcast. Good morning, It's Monday,

3
00:00:10,960 --> 00:00:14,200
Speaker 2: the twenty second of December in London. I'm Caroline Hepgar

4
00:00:14,640 --> 00:00:18,479
Speaker 2: gunboat diplomacy. The US pursues a third tanker off the

5
00:00:18,520 --> 00:00:23,560
Speaker 2: coast of Venezuela, aiming to throttle Maduro's oil revenues. Productive

6
00:00:23,680 --> 00:00:27,840
Speaker 2: and constructive. The US and Ukraine praise weekend talks in

7
00:00:27,920 --> 00:00:32,920
Speaker 2: Florida despite no obvious breakthrough on ending Russia's war, plus

8
00:00:33,000 --> 00:00:36,919
Speaker 2: a new direction uber Lift and by Do joined forces

9
00:00:36,960 --> 00:00:39,839
Speaker 2: to test driverless cars in London. Let's start with a

10
00:00:39,880 --> 00:00:43,280
Speaker 2: roundup of our top stories. The US Coast Guard is

11
00:00:43,400 --> 00:00:47,760
Speaker 2: chasing down a third oil tanker as President Trump's blockade

12
00:00:47,840 --> 00:00:51,520
Speaker 2: of the country ramps up. The tanker, called Bella one,

13
00:00:51,680 --> 00:00:54,560
Speaker 2: is being pursued off the coast of Venezuela after the

14
00:00:54,720 --> 00:00:58,880
Speaker 2: US also sees a different, non sanctioned vessel over the weekend.

15
00:00:59,240 --> 00:01:04,160
Speaker 2: Bloomberg's East America editor Tony Chuchka says the US is

16
00:01:04,280 --> 00:01:07,400
Speaker 2: clearly trying to damage Venezuela's economy.

17
00:01:07,560 --> 00:01:11,160
Speaker 3: Over the weekend. This kind of noose that the US

18
00:01:11,319 --> 00:01:14,679
Speaker 3: that the Trump administration is trying to tighten economically around

19
00:01:14,680 --> 00:01:18,360
Speaker 3: the government of Nicolas Madua and Venezuela has been tightening.

20
00:01:18,480 --> 00:01:21,880
Speaker 3: At the same time, the government has not been very forthcoming,

21
00:01:22,000 --> 00:01:24,440
Speaker 3: sort of come out in dribs and drabs, But the

22
00:01:24,680 --> 00:01:28,640
Speaker 3: overall purpose is very clear, which is essentially a deprived

23
00:01:28,800 --> 00:01:32,679
Speaker 3: Venezuela of its main revenue, which is oil exports.

24
00:01:33,360 --> 00:01:37,039
Speaker 2: Jujka ads that Venezuela's oil exports have dwindled over the

25
00:01:37,120 --> 00:01:39,880
Speaker 2: years and now account for less than one percent of

26
00:01:39,920 --> 00:01:43,880
Speaker 2: global demand. Even so, the Trump administration's military deployment in

27
00:01:43,959 --> 00:01:47,319
Speaker 2: the Caribbean is the largest in the region in decades.

28
00:01:47,880 --> 00:01:51,800
Speaker 2: Mexico and Brazil are among the many Latin American countries

29
00:01:51,880 --> 00:01:56,680
Speaker 2: warning against the foreign intervention, saying that it risks armed conflict.

30
00:01:57,840 --> 00:02:01,320
Speaker 2: The heightened geopolitical tensions are helping to drive gold to

31
00:02:01,440 --> 00:02:04,960
Speaker 2: yet another record high. The prescious metal has climbed one

32
00:02:05,000 --> 00:02:08,399
Speaker 2: and a half percent to surpass its October record as

33
00:02:08,480 --> 00:02:12,200
Speaker 2: traders bet on uncertainty as well as further US interest

34
00:02:12,320 --> 00:02:14,760
Speaker 2: rate cards. The games put gold on track for its

35
00:02:14,800 --> 00:02:20,280
Speaker 2: best annual performance since nineteen seventy nine. The US and

36
00:02:20,400 --> 00:02:24,240
Speaker 2: Ukraine have held constructive talks in Florida, thus according to

37
00:02:24,400 --> 00:02:27,560
Speaker 2: US Special Envoice Steve Whitcoff, who said that White House

38
00:02:27,600 --> 00:02:31,959
Speaker 2: officials joined meetings with Ukrainian and European counterparts as part

39
00:02:32,000 --> 00:02:35,120
Speaker 2: of ongoing efforts to end the war. Speaking ahead of

40
00:02:35,160 --> 00:02:38,600
Speaker 2: the negotiations, US sexty of stage Marker, Rubio described his

41
00:02:38,680 --> 00:02:41,320
Speaker 2: country's participation in the peace efforts.

42
00:02:42,000 --> 00:02:43,880
Speaker 4: We're trying to figure out what can Russia give and

43
00:02:43,880 --> 00:02:46,120
Speaker 4: what do they expect to get. Where can Ukraine beive

44
00:02:46,200 --> 00:02:48,240
Speaker 4: and what can Ukraine expect to get. In the end,

45
00:02:48,560 --> 00:02:51,400
Speaker 4: the decision will be up to Ukraine and up to Russia,

46
00:02:51,480 --> 00:02:53,480
Speaker 4: will not be up to the United States. So that's

47
00:02:53,520 --> 00:02:55,120
Speaker 4: the role we are trying to play in this.

48
00:02:56,040 --> 00:02:59,280
Speaker 2: US sectory of say Marco Rubio. Speaking in a post

49
00:02:59,360 --> 00:03:03,079
Speaker 2: on social media platform x, the Special Envoy Steve Witkoff

50
00:03:03,080 --> 00:03:07,240
Speaker 2: said that discussions included Donald Trump's son in law Jared Kushner,

51
00:03:07,480 --> 00:03:13,399
Speaker 2: top Ukrainian negotiator rustam Umuov, and other security advisors. Ukrainian

52
00:03:13,440 --> 00:03:18,840
Speaker 2: President Voladimir Zelinski also described negotiations as constructive, but noted

53
00:03:18,840 --> 00:03:24,079
Speaker 2: that signals from Russia remain quote only negative. Kremlin envoy

54
00:03:24,160 --> 00:03:28,160
Speaker 2: Kiril Dimitriev said that separate talks between Russia and US

55
00:03:28,160 --> 00:03:34,680
Speaker 2: officials are quote proceeding constructively. Justice Apartment officials were right

56
00:03:34,880 --> 00:03:39,720
Speaker 2: to remove several images from the Epstein files before they

57
00:03:39,760 --> 00:03:43,680
Speaker 2: were released, including one of President Donald Trump. This according

58
00:03:44,040 --> 00:03:48,440
Speaker 2: to Deputy Attorney General Todd Blanche, an image of a

59
00:03:48,600 --> 00:03:52,160
Speaker 2: desk draw with photos, including one showing the future president,

60
00:03:52,720 --> 00:03:56,040
Speaker 2: was removed and then later restored after the Justice Apartment

61
00:03:56,120 --> 00:04:00,760
Speaker 2: determined that it did not depict any Epstein victim. Speaking

62
00:04:00,760 --> 00:04:04,880
Speaker 2: to NBC, Blanche, a former personal attorney for Trump, said

63
00:04:04,920 --> 00:04:08,880
Speaker 2: the decision came as a result of court ordered mandates.

64
00:04:09,760 --> 00:04:13,760
Speaker 5: The statute also requires us to protect victims, and so

65
00:04:14,080 --> 00:04:17,560
Speaker 5: the reason why we are still reviewing documents and still

66
00:04:17,600 --> 00:04:21,919
Speaker 5: continuing our process is simply that to protect victims. So

67
00:04:22,040 --> 00:04:25,960
Speaker 5: the same individuals that are out there complaining about the

68
00:04:26,040 --> 00:04:28,839
Speaker 5: lack of documents that were produced on Friday are the

69
00:04:28,839 --> 00:04:31,880
Speaker 5: same individuals who apparently don't want us to protect victims.

70
00:04:33,120 --> 00:04:37,400
Speaker 2: Yes, STA Attorney General Todd Blanche, speaking to NBC's Meet

71
00:04:37,440 --> 00:04:42,120
Speaker 2: the Press. The redactions prompted criticism from lawmakers, with some

72
00:04:42,200 --> 00:04:47,000
Speaker 2: accusing the administration of violating the Epstein Files Transparency Act

73
00:04:47,480 --> 00:04:54,320
Speaker 2: and shielding President Donald Trump, which Blanche denied. Now Uber

74
00:04:54,520 --> 00:04:57,200
Speaker 2: and lift A teaming up with the Chinese tech giant

75
00:04:57,279 --> 00:05:02,040
Speaker 2: Baidu to trial driverless taxi in London. The two companies

76
00:05:02,080 --> 00:05:05,200
Speaker 2: have announced a pilot program which we'll start in the

77
00:05:05,240 --> 00:05:09,359
Speaker 2: first half of next year, with commercial services soon to follow.

78
00:05:09,600 --> 00:05:12,480
Speaker 2: Our reporter James Walcock has more it's.

79
00:05:12,320 --> 00:05:15,560
Speaker 6: The core staple of any London taxi drive, a conversation

80
00:05:15,640 --> 00:05:18,159
Speaker 6: with the driver, whether you want it or not, but

81
00:05:18,279 --> 00:05:20,840
Speaker 6: it might be on the way out by do an.

82
00:05:20,960 --> 00:05:23,919
Speaker 6: Uber will start testing out robotaxis next year on the

83
00:05:23,920 --> 00:05:27,080
Speaker 6: streets of London. They're not the only ones. Text firms

84
00:05:27,080 --> 00:05:30,240
Speaker 6: are racing to build data sets for drivers cars where

85
00:05:30,320 --> 00:05:32,960
Speaker 6: May have already started testing in London, and Lived will

86
00:05:33,000 --> 00:05:37,200
Speaker 6: also follow next year. Exciting technology aside, it's not yet

87
00:05:37,240 --> 00:05:39,680
Speaker 6: clear how the companies will make profits from the ventures

88
00:05:40,040 --> 00:05:42,560
Speaker 6: in London. James Worcock Woomberg Radio.

89
00:05:43,480 --> 00:05:47,839
Speaker 2: A private actually consortium led by Permera and Warburg Pinkus,

90
00:05:47,920 --> 00:05:51,640
Speaker 2: has agreed to acquire clear Water Analytics. The deal would

91
00:05:51,720 --> 00:05:55,520
Speaker 2: value the investment and accounting software maker at eight point

92
00:05:55,560 --> 00:05:59,120
Speaker 2: four billion dollars including debt. That's according to a statement

93
00:05:59,160 --> 00:06:01,840
Speaker 2: from the firm. Also included in the buy our group

94
00:06:01,920 --> 00:06:07,080
Speaker 2: are Singaporean state investment company Tamasek and the technology investment

95
00:06:07,120 --> 00:06:11,320
Speaker 2: firm Francisco Partners. The transaction is expected to close in

96
00:06:11,320 --> 00:06:13,440
Speaker 2: the first half of twenty twenty six, and it will

97
00:06:13,480 --> 00:06:18,360
Speaker 2: allow clear Water to consider rival offers until late January.

98
00:06:18,520 --> 00:06:21,400
Speaker 2: That's in corporate news this morning. Let's get to the market.

99
00:06:21,440 --> 00:06:24,279
Speaker 2: It's MSCIASH Pacific index is up by nine tenths of

100
00:06:24,360 --> 00:06:26,800
Speaker 2: one percent this morning. Bit mixed when it comes to

101
00:06:26,960 --> 00:06:29,920
Speaker 2: futures high for the US. For US SOX swifty futures,

102
00:06:30,000 --> 00:06:34,320
Speaker 2: we are down two tenths of one percent. Thinking about gold,

103
00:06:33,720 --> 00:06:36,560
Speaker 2: four hundred dollars is where we sit this morning, up

104
00:06:36,600 --> 00:06:39,000
Speaker 2: by one point four percent, so we've powered through the

105
00:06:39,000 --> 00:06:42,480
Speaker 2: October record high four billion, which had such a strong year.

106
00:06:42,640 --> 00:06:45,760
Speaker 2: The uncertainties in Venezuela mean that oil prices are up

107
00:06:45,800 --> 00:06:48,280
Speaker 2: more than one percent for break Crew futures sixty one

108
00:06:48,440 --> 00:06:52,720
Speaker 2: dollars thirteen the bowl this morning. And then just lastly,

109
00:06:52,720 --> 00:06:55,920
Speaker 2: in terms of ten year US at treasury yields right now,

110
00:06:55,920 --> 00:06:58,159
Speaker 2: they're upper couple of basis points out of four sixteen.

111
00:06:58,240 --> 00:07:00,840
Speaker 2: So those are the markets. In a moment. We're going

112
00:07:00,839 --> 00:07:06,680
Speaker 2: to get into the US actions against Venezuela, this oil blockade,

113
00:07:06,760 --> 00:07:09,760
Speaker 2: and also what happened over the weekend in these various

114
00:07:10,200 --> 00:07:15,240
Speaker 2: negotiations over Ukraine in Florida. But before that, another story

115
00:07:15,240 --> 00:07:19,440
Speaker 2: has caught my eye this morning. An unexpected fantastic bottle

116
00:07:19,480 --> 00:07:22,800
Speaker 2: of booze is always welcome around the holidays, this at

117
00:07:22,880 --> 00:07:26,760
Speaker 2: least according to Bloomberg's Kara Newman. She has a last

118
00:07:26,880 --> 00:07:30,920
Speaker 2: minute list of wine and whiskey for you indulgent, alcoholic

119
00:07:31,040 --> 00:07:34,000
Speaker 2: or not, because, as I discovered to my surprise on

120
00:07:34,120 --> 00:07:38,240
Speaker 2: Sunday going to some actual physical stores in London, last

121
00:07:38,240 --> 00:07:42,600
Speaker 2: minute panic shopping pre Christmas is definitely not dead. So

122
00:07:42,880 --> 00:07:45,120
Speaker 2: relax into the festive season with a few of my

123
00:07:45,200 --> 00:07:49,680
Speaker 2: favorites from this list, including Second Sip, which is a

124
00:07:49,880 --> 00:07:55,160
Speaker 2: low alcohol gin twenty percent proof apparently, and why don't

125
00:07:55,200 --> 00:07:57,960
Speaker 2: you blow the doors off with the nineteen ninety nine

126
00:07:58,080 --> 00:08:03,920
Speaker 2: Paul Voge couve Winston Churchill at a mere twenty pounds

127
00:08:03,920 --> 00:08:06,840
Speaker 2: for a magnum. I love the fact that Colin Newman

128
00:08:06,880 --> 00:08:11,520
Speaker 2: has described all of these wonderful festive treats, and I'm

129
00:08:11,520 --> 00:08:13,400
Speaker 2: going to put a link to it in our show note.

130
00:08:13,480 --> 00:08:15,440
Speaker 2: But of course we aren't ready to put up our

131
00:08:15,520 --> 00:08:18,280
Speaker 2: feet just yet, glass in hand. No, no, We've got

132
00:08:18,280 --> 00:08:21,080
Speaker 2: to get into our top stories today. Now, the United

133
00:08:21,080 --> 00:08:25,680
Speaker 2: States has intensified an oil blockade off the coast of Venezuela,

134
00:08:25,880 --> 00:08:30,920
Speaker 2: boarding or pursuing three oil tankers in total. Joining me

135
00:08:31,000 --> 00:08:35,320
Speaker 2: now is Blomberg's Asia Energy editor, Stephen Stepchinski. Good to

136
00:08:35,320 --> 00:08:38,319
Speaker 2: speak to you, Stephen. Can you just describe the US's

137
00:08:38,559 --> 00:08:41,880
Speaker 2: maritime maneuvers against Venezuela so far?

138
00:08:42,880 --> 00:08:46,160
Speaker 7: You know, it's been really fascinating watching this unfold. So

139
00:08:46,280 --> 00:08:50,240
Speaker 7: earlier this month, the Trump administration seesed a US sanctioned

140
00:08:50,320 --> 00:08:55,040
Speaker 7: oil tanker that was carrying about two million barrels of

141
00:08:55,720 --> 00:09:01,160
Speaker 7: oil and from Venezuela, and that was shortly followed by

142
00:09:01,160 --> 00:09:03,480
Speaker 7: the Trump administration saying that they're going to be having

143
00:09:04,080 --> 00:09:10,000
Speaker 7: a blockade effectively on all sanctioned oil exports from Venezuela.

144
00:09:10,559 --> 00:09:12,199
Speaker 7: And so I think there was an expectation that you

145
00:09:12,360 --> 00:09:15,199
Speaker 7: folks were like, Okay, well, if it's a US sanctioned vessel,

146
00:09:15,360 --> 00:09:17,600
Speaker 7: you're in trouble. If you're not sanctioned by the US,

147
00:09:17,840 --> 00:09:19,480
Speaker 7: you know, you could take your risk, you know, you

148
00:09:19,520 --> 00:09:22,160
Speaker 7: can go there, but maybe the US won't seize the vessel.

149
00:09:22,160 --> 00:09:23,680
Speaker 7: They won't board do they won't have the authority to

150
00:09:23,720 --> 00:09:27,040
Speaker 7: do that. Well, that's not the case. They boarded a

151
00:09:27,080 --> 00:09:30,960
Speaker 7: second vessel over the weekend, and this one was not

152
00:09:31,080 --> 00:09:34,760
Speaker 7: sanctioned by the US. It was carrying crude from Venezuela

153
00:09:34,800 --> 00:09:37,720
Speaker 7: that the US has is sanctioned. The cargo itself is sanctioned,

154
00:09:37,880 --> 00:09:40,040
Speaker 7: So that was reason enough for them to board the vessel.

155
00:09:40,240 --> 00:09:42,480
Speaker 7: And then now they're pursuing a third vessel that's not

156
00:09:42,480 --> 00:09:46,680
Speaker 7: even carrying any crude. It is going to Venezuela, is

157
00:09:46,720 --> 00:09:50,640
Speaker 7: nearing there. The vessels is viewed to be part of

158
00:09:50,679 --> 00:09:54,559
Speaker 7: the shadow Fleet and part of the network that ships

159
00:09:54,800 --> 00:09:59,560
Speaker 7: Venezuela oil elsewhere, like to buyers in China. But it

160
00:09:59,600 --> 00:10:02,680
Speaker 7: does that if you're if you're a shipper, if you

161
00:10:02,760 --> 00:10:05,120
Speaker 7: own a ship, if you're operating in this sector, you're

162
00:10:05,160 --> 00:10:08,960
Speaker 7: really gonna think twice before you go to Venezuela. And

163
00:10:09,000 --> 00:10:11,720
Speaker 7: if the shadow fleet starts to break down, if Venezuela

164
00:10:11,760 --> 00:10:14,200
Speaker 7: can't get the ships there to export their crude, well

165
00:10:14,240 --> 00:10:15,240
Speaker 7: then they're in a lot of trouble.

166
00:10:16,280 --> 00:10:18,960
Speaker 2: So what is person Chump's aim I mean? Is it

167
00:10:19,160 --> 00:10:23,080
Speaker 2: maximum pressure? Is it war? Is it regime changed? Because

168
00:10:23,200 --> 00:10:25,600
Speaker 2: we know that the US is labeled the Maduro government

169
00:10:25,679 --> 00:10:28,960
Speaker 2: a drug trafficking cartel, a foreign terrorist organization.

170
00:10:29,960 --> 00:10:31,800
Speaker 7: You know, I think it's a bit of all the above, right,

171
00:10:31,800 --> 00:10:34,320
Speaker 7: I mean, clearly it's it is a maximum pressure approach.

172
00:10:34,960 --> 00:10:38,199
Speaker 7: They are they are really trying to hit on the

173
00:10:38,200 --> 00:10:41,960
Speaker 7: economy of Venezuela and tighten that as much as they

174
00:10:41,960 --> 00:10:45,200
Speaker 7: possibly we can, because without oil exports, they're just not

175
00:10:45,360 --> 00:10:49,319
Speaker 7: making any money anywhere else. There's there's risks of an

176
00:10:49,360 --> 00:10:53,200
Speaker 7: economic collapse if this continues. The second thing, obviously, it

177
00:10:53,240 --> 00:10:56,480
Speaker 7: does seem to be regime change. The Trump administration has

178
00:10:56,520 --> 00:10:59,520
Speaker 7: been very clear that that they think that Venezuela is

179
00:10:59,559 --> 00:11:02,160
Speaker 7: part of drug problem in the United States, the legal

180
00:11:02,160 --> 00:11:04,320
Speaker 7: immigrant problem in the United States. They've they've labeled them

181
00:11:04,320 --> 00:11:06,720
Speaker 7: all sorts of different things, and Trump has said that,

182
00:11:06,880 --> 00:11:10,079
Speaker 7: you know, attacks on the ground aren't outside of the

183
00:11:10,080 --> 00:11:12,640
Speaker 7: realm of possibility. So with all of that put together,

184
00:11:12,679 --> 00:11:16,520
Speaker 7: it does look like the Trump administration wants a regime change,

185
00:11:16,640 --> 00:11:19,160
Speaker 7: and they're they're kind of pulling every lever they can.

186
00:11:19,280 --> 00:11:21,679
Speaker 7: Right before, we saw them pulling the levers by by

187
00:11:21,760 --> 00:11:24,800
Speaker 7: kind of striking those the drug the ships that were

188
00:11:24,800 --> 00:11:27,680
Speaker 7: carrying that they said were carrying drugs or or or

189
00:11:27,720 --> 00:11:30,360
Speaker 7: members of the cartel. Now you're looking at them hit

190
00:11:30,440 --> 00:11:35,400
Speaker 7: ships of course, uh with by boarding them and harassing them,

191
00:11:35,960 --> 00:11:38,840
Speaker 7: They're they're looking at hitting another aspect of their economy.

192
00:11:39,720 --> 00:11:42,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, and so then your view on how this affects

193
00:11:43,080 --> 00:11:46,120
Speaker 2: oil markets and what impact it's having in the oil markets,

194
00:11:46,800 --> 00:11:47,240
Speaker 2: you know, I.

195
00:11:47,160 --> 00:11:49,320
Speaker 7: Think this is very interesting because this does have to

196
00:11:49,320 --> 00:11:52,240
Speaker 7: do with oil, and markets are reacting to a degree.

197
00:11:52,400 --> 00:11:55,400
Speaker 7: But this is far has far, far wider impact on

198
00:11:55,480 --> 00:11:58,880
Speaker 7: Venezuela than it does on the global oil market. China,

199
00:11:59,400 --> 00:12:04,719
Speaker 7: the US, other buyers don't need Venezuelan oil, right. Venezuela

200
00:12:04,760 --> 00:12:08,480
Speaker 7: produces exports about less than one percent of global supply.

201
00:12:08,880 --> 00:12:10,880
Speaker 7: The global oil market is actually in a bit of

202
00:12:10,920 --> 00:12:13,120
Speaker 7: an oversupply itself. It's going to get worse at glut

203
00:12:13,280 --> 00:12:14,920
Speaker 7: is going to get worse. In twenty twenty six, we

204
00:12:15,000 --> 00:12:16,760
Speaker 7: have oil price at the lowest level in more than

205
00:12:16,760 --> 00:12:20,800
Speaker 7: four years. All of that together means that there isn't

206
00:12:20,840 --> 00:12:23,080
Speaker 7: going to be any impact on inflation. There's going to

207
00:12:23,080 --> 00:12:26,280
Speaker 7: be no impact on the price of oil at the pump,

208
00:12:26,280 --> 00:12:28,400
Speaker 7: which is something that Trump really cares about, which also

209
00:12:28,480 --> 00:12:30,560
Speaker 7: might speak to the timing of all of this as well.

210
00:12:30,760 --> 00:12:33,839
Speaker 7: Trump knew that if they were to take venezuela and

211
00:12:33,880 --> 00:12:36,800
Speaker 7: oil off the market, it wouldn't see a huge price

212
00:12:36,840 --> 00:12:39,080
Speaker 7: bike that you would see maybe in twenty twenty two

213
00:12:39,160 --> 00:12:41,320
Speaker 7: in the height of the energy crisis.

214
00:12:41,720 --> 00:12:44,319
Speaker 2: Indeed, Stephen, thank you for speaking to me about this.

215
00:12:44,400 --> 00:12:49,880
Speaker 2: Stephen sepchinskis Boomberg's Asia Energy editor. Stay with us. More

216
00:12:49,920 --> 00:12:55,040
Speaker 2: from Bloomberg daybakeuope coming up after this. Ukraine held these

217
00:12:55,280 --> 00:12:57,760
Speaker 2: three days of talks with the US in Florida over

218
00:12:57,800 --> 00:13:01,959
Speaker 2: a possible piece deal, while Russia's Voikiril Dmitriev held some

219
00:13:02,040 --> 00:13:05,600
Speaker 2: separate talks with US officials. Joining US now is Tony Happen,

220
00:13:05,840 --> 00:13:09,280
Speaker 2: who heads our team covering Russia's economy and government. Tony, Hello,

221
00:13:09,920 --> 00:13:13,640
Speaker 2: does Ukraine do you think have a strong and negotiating

222
00:13:13,800 --> 00:13:17,839
Speaker 2: position given that last week we were focused on the

223
00:13:17,880 --> 00:13:21,839
Speaker 2: EU loan akreement it was done that deal. Does that

224
00:13:21,920 --> 00:13:23,600
Speaker 2: strengthen Ukraine's hand?

225
00:13:25,160 --> 00:13:27,360
Speaker 8: Well, I mean they certainly didn't want to go into

226
00:13:27,760 --> 00:13:30,920
Speaker 8: these talks and future talks. In fact, without the protection

227
00:13:31,080 --> 00:13:34,800
Speaker 8: of that loan, Ukraine faced a very real risk by

228
00:13:34,880 --> 00:13:37,280
Speaker 8: April of simply running out of money, not be able

229
00:13:37,320 --> 00:13:39,800
Speaker 8: to fund the government or its own defense. And the

230
00:13:39,920 --> 00:13:42,400
Speaker 8: risk they were really aware of was that Russia would

231
00:13:42,400 --> 00:13:45,000
Speaker 8: take this as a signal that its allies were backing

232
00:13:45,080 --> 00:13:47,679
Speaker 8: away from Ukraine and was simply run down the clock

233
00:13:47,800 --> 00:13:50,040
Speaker 8: knowing that every month that passed would make it more

234
00:13:50,080 --> 00:13:52,600
Speaker 8: and more difficult for Kiv. So yes, without that loan,

235
00:13:52,600 --> 00:13:54,920
Speaker 8: the negotiating position would have been a good deal. Weaker

236
00:13:55,280 --> 00:13:57,600
Speaker 8: with it. Of course, they can enter the talks knowing

237
00:13:57,600 --> 00:14:00,600
Speaker 8: that they still have the back of their European allies.

238
00:14:01,559 --> 00:14:06,680
Speaker 2: Is Russia's position moving? You were reporting on Friday Vlatimir

239
00:14:06,679 --> 00:14:10,160
Speaker 2: Putin saying that it was incorrect to say that Russia

240
00:14:10,240 --> 00:14:14,800
Speaker 2: completely rejected something. This was in that long to Q

241
00:14:14,920 --> 00:14:16,920
Speaker 2: and a that Putin does every year.

242
00:14:18,360 --> 00:14:21,280
Speaker 8: Yeah, So he gave a news conference that lasted some

243
00:14:21,440 --> 00:14:23,760
Speaker 8: four and a half hours on Friday, and in it,

244
00:14:23,800 --> 00:14:26,560
Speaker 8: as you say, he did say that Russia is interested

245
00:14:26,560 --> 00:14:29,920
Speaker 8: in peace and hasn't rejected anything. But they come from

246
00:14:29,960 --> 00:14:33,440
Speaker 8: two very different starting points here. Putin's starting point is

247
00:14:33,560 --> 00:14:39,000
Speaker 8: the Anchorage summit with Donald Trump in August in Alaska,

248
00:14:39,320 --> 00:14:42,479
Speaker 8: where he said that they reached pretty much agreed positions.

249
00:14:42,800 --> 00:14:45,480
Speaker 8: We don't really know fully what those positions were, but

250
00:14:45,680 --> 00:14:48,240
Speaker 8: since then of course, we've had the twenty eight point

251
00:14:48,280 --> 00:14:50,600
Speaker 8: plan that the US and Russia drew up, which has

252
00:14:50,600 --> 00:14:53,480
Speaker 8: been chiseled down to the existing twenty point plan, and

253
00:14:53,480 --> 00:14:55,920
Speaker 8: there are still elements of that plan that Russia doesn't like.

254
00:14:56,040 --> 00:14:58,360
Speaker 8: So I think it's very difficult to say that Russia's

255
00:14:58,400 --> 00:15:00,920
Speaker 8: moved because Putin has a different vision of how this

256
00:15:00,960 --> 00:15:04,000
Speaker 8: war should end. But certainly there's still a lot to discuss.

257
00:15:05,120 --> 00:15:08,680
Speaker 2: What about the war itself, Ukraine continues to be attacked

258
00:15:08,880 --> 00:15:13,160
Speaker 2: whilst Ukraine has also itself intensified attacks on tankers tied

259
00:15:13,200 --> 00:15:14,440
Speaker 2: to Russia's oil trade.

260
00:15:16,000 --> 00:15:18,320
Speaker 8: Yes, when the war is going on every day, there's

261
00:15:18,400 --> 00:15:22,840
Speaker 8: no Christmas or New Year ceasefire on the horizon. Ukraine

262
00:15:22,960 --> 00:15:26,320
Speaker 8: sees a sawce point for Russia in its oil infrastructure.

263
00:15:26,360 --> 00:15:28,720
Speaker 8: It sees that as a weakness that it can attack

264
00:15:28,840 --> 00:15:32,920
Speaker 8: to some effect. It believes that by attacking things like

265
00:15:33,120 --> 00:15:38,440
Speaker 8: oil refineries, oil platforms, tankers, that they can damage Russia's

266
00:15:38,440 --> 00:15:41,680
Speaker 8: ability to get revenues from oil and gas cells and

267
00:15:41,720 --> 00:15:44,760
Speaker 8: therefore weaken the Kremlin's war machine over the long term.

268
00:15:44,760 --> 00:15:47,160
Speaker 8: And they're having some success in that, but at the

269
00:15:47,200 --> 00:15:50,320
Speaker 8: same time they're having to defend against constant Russian attacks

270
00:15:50,360 --> 00:15:52,720
Speaker 8: both from the air against cities and on the ground

271
00:15:52,760 --> 00:15:55,520
Speaker 8: on the battleground, which continues to be a hot one.

272
00:15:57,240 --> 00:15:59,880
Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg Daybreak Europe. You're morning brief on this

273
00:15:59,840 --> 00:16:03,080
Speaker 1: stories making news from London to Wall Street and beyond.

274
00:16:03,400 --> 00:16:07,400
Speaker 2: Look for us on your podcast feed every morning on Apple, Spotify,

275
00:16:07,480 --> 00:16:09,520
Speaker 2: and anywhere else you get your podcasts.

276
00:16:09,600 --> 00:16:12,640
Speaker 1: You can also listen live each morning on London Dab Radio,

277
00:16:12,680 --> 00:16:15,360
Speaker 1: the Bloomberg Business app, and Bloomberg dot Com.

278
00:16:15,400 --> 00:16:18,200
Speaker 2: Our flagship New York station is also available on your

279
00:16:18,200 --> 00:16:22,920
Speaker 2: Amazon Alexa devices. Just say Alexa play Bloomberg eleven thirty.

280
00:16:23,160 --> 00:16:24,480
Speaker 2: I'm Caroline Hepka and.

281
00:16:24,400 --> 00:16:27,080
Speaker 1: I'm Stephen Carol. Join us again tomorrow morning for all

282
00:16:27,080 --> 00:16:29,520
Speaker 1: the news you need to start your day right here

283
00:16:29,560 --> 00:16:34,760
Speaker 1: on Bloomberg Daybreak Europe.