WEBVTT - Childhood of a Killer [2] 0:00:02.680 --> 0:00:06.680 New episodes of Monster BTK are released every Monday and 0:00:06.800 --> 0:00:10.440 brought to you absolutely free. But if you want to 0:00:10.480 --> 0:00:13.840 hear the whole season right now, it's available ad free 0:00:13.880 --> 0:00:18.120 on iHeart True Crime Plus. For more information, check out 0:00:18.200 --> 0:00:24.640 the show notes. Enjoy the episode. 0:00:24.680 --> 0:00:29.360 You're listening to Monster BTK, a production of iHeart Podcasts 0:00:29.600 --> 0:00:33.560 and Tenderfoot TV. Listener discretion is advised. 0:00:37.560 --> 0:00:40.919 I think he would have eventually killed again. But what 0:00:41.040 --> 0:00:45.280 really got him to finally surface, which was his downfall? 0:00:46.000 --> 0:00:51.000 It was the thirtieth anniversary of the crime. A lawyer 0:00:51.159 --> 0:00:54.560 in town was going to write a book. When he 0:00:54.640 --> 0:00:57.840 read that, he says, no one's going to write this book. 0:00:58.320 --> 0:00:59.680 What do they know about me? They don't know the 0:00:59.720 --> 0:01:02.680 motive or anything. I'm going to be the one to 0:01:02.720 --> 0:01:05.560 write this book. That's how he surfaced. 0:01:06.840 --> 0:01:10.120 This was definitely the opportunity that he was waiting for 0:01:10.600 --> 0:01:15.000 to come forth. Here he is back in the news 0:01:15.880 --> 0:01:19.480 and in his mind, you know, his hero status, and 0:01:19.560 --> 0:01:22.400 now he's starting to show off the trophies. He's starting 0:01:22.400 --> 0:01:25.880 to send his trophies. He wants to be back in 0:01:25.920 --> 0:01:30.759 the news, he wants his fifteen minutes of fame, he 0:01:30.840 --> 0:01:33.840 wants to be identified and I kind of set up 0:01:33.840 --> 0:01:35.840 with tongue in cheek that if we hadn't figured out 0:01:35.840 --> 0:01:37.200 who it was, he would have called it to a 0:01:37.280 --> 0:01:38.000 news conference. 0:01:39.400 --> 0:01:43.200 He wanted to control the narrative. He thought about what 0:01:43.319 --> 0:01:45.400 if he got caught, and he had kind of a 0:01:45.440 --> 0:01:48.400 plan in place as to what he would do about that. 0:01:49.320 --> 0:01:51.840 So he decided he was going to come back and 0:01:51.920 --> 0:01:54.560 start doing this cat and mouse thing where he would 0:01:54.600 --> 0:02:00.360 send these missives to the police to show that story 0:02:00.440 --> 0:02:03.040 isn't over and that he's also looking. 0:02:02.760 --> 0:02:04.240 For the next victim. 0:02:05.000 --> 0:02:08.440 He used it on a church computer so that it 0:02:08.480 --> 0:02:12.840 was traceable back to that computer. His name was there. 0:02:14.360 --> 0:02:18.640 So finally the police watched his routine the way he 0:02:18.680 --> 0:02:22.839 had been watching victim routines to figure out he goes 0:02:22.880 --> 0:02:26.200 home for lunch every day. This is when to get him. 0:02:26.680 --> 0:02:30.639 Agents from the KBI, agents from the FBI, and members 0:02:30.639 --> 0:02:35.919 of the Wichita Police Department arrested Dennis Raider, fifty nine 0:02:35.919 --> 0:02:39.240 in a white male in Park City, Kansas. 0:02:40.000 --> 0:02:44.040 And so they pulled him over and he acted like, 0:02:45.000 --> 0:02:48.079 what took you so long? I've been waiting for you. 0:02:51.560 --> 0:02:54.520 Someone killed four members of a family. 0:02:54.760 --> 0:02:56.000 Had you vanished from her home? 0:02:56.080 --> 0:02:56.480 Suddenly? 0:02:56.560 --> 0:02:59.360 Last weekend, her phone lines had been cut, her door 0:02:59.440 --> 0:02:59.960 left open. 0:03:00.280 --> 0:03:03.400 You see the victim play in there with plastic bags 0:03:03.400 --> 0:03:06.440 over their heads, strangled. You could tell it was a 0:03:06.520 --> 0:03:07.800 plan scenario. 0:03:08.040 --> 0:03:10.480 Well, police have said no more about the contents of 0:03:10.520 --> 0:03:10.880 the letter. 0:03:11.040 --> 0:03:14.040 It does contain some sort of threat and implies the 0:03:14.120 --> 0:03:15.560 killer may strike again. 0:03:15.880 --> 0:03:17.399 He's got to play with these victims. 0:03:18.080 --> 0:03:20.680 He'd get him to the point of death and then 0:03:20.680 --> 0:03:23.400 bring them back and then brings them back to the 0:03:23.400 --> 0:03:24.160 point of death. 0:03:25.800 --> 0:03:31.280 From My Heart Podcasts and Tenderfoot TV, I'm Susan Peters 0:03:31.919 --> 0:03:35.360 and this is Monster BTK. 0:03:40.960 --> 0:03:44.040 Moments ago a press conference in the City Council Chambers 0:03:44.040 --> 0:03:48.160 at City Hall concluded, we finally came down to an 0:03:48.200 --> 0:03:51.720 announcement of what a lot of Wichetan's have been waiting 0:03:51.760 --> 0:03:53.160 for for well over thirty years. 0:03:53.480 --> 0:03:57.600 He actually named himself BTK, Bind, torture and kill. This 0:03:57.800 --> 0:04:00.480 coward killed the father in the house that day, he 0:04:00.600 --> 0:04:03.080 killed the mother, tied them both up and towards of them. 0:04:03.440 --> 0:04:07.280 And again the question that arises is in one of 0:04:07.280 --> 0:04:09.480 the questions that is he had to be answered. Was 0:04:09.520 --> 0:04:11.200 he trying to be caught? 0:04:12.560 --> 0:04:16.880 On February twenty fifth, two thousand and five, Dennis Raider 0:04:17.120 --> 0:04:21.840 was revealed to be the BTK killer. To everyone's surprise, 0:04:22.000 --> 0:04:26.200 he was a seemingly normal guy fifty nine years old, 0:04:26.600 --> 0:04:30.039 worked a city job, owned a house with his wife, 0:04:30.600 --> 0:04:36.839 two kids, wore glasses balding. As my former KTV anchor 0:04:36.920 --> 0:04:41.640 Larry Hadeberg says, this is not the guy we were expecting. 0:04:42.360 --> 0:04:46.720 When people said BTK, you think of a wild eyed 0:04:47.160 --> 0:04:52.680 Manson like character, just a crazy person. What we didn't 0:04:52.800 --> 0:04:58.400 understand is he was the guy next door. He went 0:04:58.440 --> 0:05:01.960 to a local church, he was in charge of the congregation. 0:05:02.720 --> 0:05:06.800 He worked in an important job in Park City, Kansas. 0:05:07.160 --> 0:05:09.440 He was going to the grocery store with us. He 0:05:09.480 --> 0:05:12.000 was going to the movies with us. I would have 0:05:12.200 --> 0:05:14.520 never ever guessed that. 0:05:16.960 --> 0:05:20.920 Hours after he was captured, I realized I had seen 0:05:21.000 --> 0:05:26.960 this man before, and very recently. Only two weeks prior, 0:05:27.560 --> 0:05:30.520 Dennis Rader, along with a tour group from Christ Lutheran, 0:05:30.920 --> 0:05:35.480 had visited KKTV. In fact, he had personally requested the 0:05:35.520 --> 0:05:38.919 tour for himself and six other members of his church. 0:05:40.160 --> 0:05:41.200 I remember I. 0:05:41.320 --> 0:05:45.159 First saw him sitting in a folding chair three feet 0:05:45.160 --> 0:05:48.880 away from me as we reported the latest on the BTK. 0:05:50.040 --> 0:05:53.400 In fact, he walked around the studio, chatting it up 0:05:53.440 --> 0:05:55.920 with all of us. He then asked if he could 0:05:55.960 --> 0:06:00.280 take pictures with his thirty five millimeter camera, and then, 0:06:00.320 --> 0:06:04.159 to my surprise, without asking, he slung his arm around 0:06:04.200 --> 0:06:08.200 my shoulder and snapped a photo with me looking back. 0:06:08.440 --> 0:06:12.920 I am filled with dread realizing that he was in 0:06:12.960 --> 0:06:17.240 fact the BTK killer. After he was caught, I was 0:06:17.440 --> 0:06:23.440 just shocked by how brazen this was. One of the 0:06:23.480 --> 0:06:27.640 first people to learn about btk's identity was his daughter, 0:06:28.240 --> 0:06:29.040 Carrie Rawson. 0:06:30.440 --> 0:06:33.520 People are like, how did you not know these things? 0:06:34.040 --> 0:06:35.200 But Dad was dad. 0:06:35.880 --> 0:06:38.760 I mean, he'd always had been short tempered at times, 0:06:38.800 --> 0:06:41.000 short fused, controlling. 0:06:41.680 --> 0:06:42.839 I didn't know any difference. 0:06:44.440 --> 0:06:47.600 In the aftermath of his capture, everyone wanted to know 0:06:47.680 --> 0:06:51.599 the details of this now famous killer named Dennis Rader, 0:06:52.560 --> 0:06:56.440 But Carrie says her father's life was pretty normal, at 0:06:56.560 --> 0:06:59.080 least on the outside. 0:06:59.240 --> 0:07:04.160 We were pretty much the classic Midwestern family, middle class, 0:07:04.400 --> 0:07:09.920 three bedroom ranch, meticulous yard flowers, tulips, the grass mode. 0:07:10.440 --> 0:07:12.560 We go to church on Sundays religiously. 0:07:13.600 --> 0:07:16.800 He was like full suit tie. He would polish his 0:07:16.840 --> 0:07:17.800 shoes the night before. 0:07:19.240 --> 0:07:22.800 Years later, Carrie was forced to come to terms with 0:07:22.880 --> 0:07:26.240 who her father was, and she was plagued by the 0:07:26.360 --> 0:07:31.520 obvious question, how how could an average joe like her 0:07:31.640 --> 0:07:34.240 dad become such a monster? 0:07:36.040 --> 0:07:38.600 I mean, I think his three brothers turned out fine. 0:07:38.640 --> 0:07:41.080 So if you're going to do nurturn nature debate, I mean, 0:07:41.160 --> 0:07:43.040 all have the same genetics in the same home life 0:07:43.040 --> 0:07:45.960 and they're fine. So what makes one person turn into 0:07:46.000 --> 0:07:47.840 this a monster and other. 0:07:47.840 --> 0:07:48.680 People not be? 0:07:49.480 --> 0:07:51.520 I don't think anybody really knows, and I don't think 0:07:51.520 --> 0:07:55.040 he knows. One of the keys to my dad is 0:07:55.440 --> 0:07:58.680 figuring out what drives that. But also, like, is there 0:07:58.720 --> 0:08:01.120 a way to like help somebody like that before it 0:08:01.160 --> 0:08:04.679 turns into murder? Or give them an outlet it's safe 0:08:04.680 --> 0:08:07.080 outlet where they're not hurting anybody. 0:08:08.480 --> 0:08:13.080 As to how a supposedly normal guy could murder innocent people, 0:08:13.840 --> 0:08:18.480 Carrie says she is just as stumped as everyone else. 0:08:19.600 --> 0:08:21.960 There isn't just one answer to these guys. 0:08:22.800 --> 0:08:26.240 It's complicated, and you're relying on someone that's not a 0:08:26.280 --> 0:08:29.080 reliable narrator to help you figure out what's wrong with them. 0:08:29.120 --> 0:08:30.880 They hold their keys and they don't even know what's 0:08:30.920 --> 0:08:32.920 wrong with them. And then he's over here reading trying 0:08:32.920 --> 0:08:34.559 to figure out what's wrong with them. 0:08:35.200 --> 0:08:39.600 Throughout this podcast, Carrie will provide first hand insight on 0:08:39.679 --> 0:08:46.440 her father, Dennis Raider. There is perhaps no better time 0:08:46.559 --> 0:08:50.840 than right now to revisit the BTK story. According to 0:08:50.920 --> 0:08:54.959 many sources, Raider's health is declining. He may not have 0:08:55.040 --> 0:08:59.920 many years left to live. His victims are finally speaking up, 0:09:00.600 --> 0:09:05.480 ready to tell their stories after all these years, and 0:09:05.600 --> 0:09:09.079 most frightening of all, it might not be over. 0:09:10.520 --> 0:09:14.400 The Osage County, Oklahoma Sheriff's office says an old crossword 0:09:14.440 --> 0:09:17.840 puzzle from Dennis Rader links the serial killer to the 0:09:17.880 --> 0:09:22.479 disappearance of Cynthia don Kinney from Pahuska, Oklahoma. 0:09:23.200 --> 0:09:28.880 That's right. In twenty twenty three, police discovered new cases 0:09:29.240 --> 0:09:33.360 in Oklahoma and Missouri that might be the work of 0:09:33.480 --> 0:09:39.439 BTK cases we didn't know about until now. Raider refuses 0:09:39.480 --> 0:09:42.880 to give straight answers from prison, but he's playing along. 0:09:43.679 --> 0:09:49.320 It seems like he's enjoying the fame and publicity. It's 0:09:49.360 --> 0:09:55.440 a level of sickness that's difficult to fathom. 0:09:54.760 --> 0:10:01.280 For any psychopathic offender who really doesn't have any remorse 0:10:01.400 --> 0:10:05.600 for what they're doing. I don't think their values comport 0:10:05.679 --> 0:10:08.839 with most of the world, and that's why they can 0:10:08.880 --> 0:10:10.840 get away with. What they can get away with is 0:10:11.120 --> 0:10:14.160 they don't feel any remorse about the things that they're doing. 0:10:14.760 --> 0:10:20.400 And although Raider has never been given the psychopathy checklist evaluation, 0:10:21.160 --> 0:10:25.040 I think it's pretty clear that he has psychopathic features. 0:10:26.640 --> 0:10:31.480 My name is Katherine Ramsland. I'm a professor of forensic psychology, 0:10:32.040 --> 0:10:35.840 the author of Confession of a serial Killer, about Dennis 0:10:35.920 --> 0:10:39.199 Rader and written with Dennis Raider, and an assistant provost 0:10:39.240 --> 0:10:40.520 of the Sales University. 0:10:41.840 --> 0:10:44.600 Ramsland is one of the most knowledgeable people on the 0:10:44.720 --> 0:10:48.040 planet when it comes to the inner workings of Dennis 0:10:48.120 --> 0:10:53.520 Raider's mind. Following his capture, she spent years interviewing Raider 0:10:54.000 --> 0:10:58.160 in person in prison. To her, Raider is one of 0:10:58.240 --> 0:11:01.679 the most peculiar cases out there. First of all, he 0:11:01.720 --> 0:11:04.600 didn't fit the typical image of a serial killer. 0:11:05.920 --> 0:11:09.160 Why didn't he look like Ted Bundy. They were pretty 0:11:09.200 --> 0:11:13.120 disappointed that he wasn't this kind of sexy hotshot that 0:11:13.240 --> 0:11:17.440 Bundy had presented himself to be. He's this kind of pudgy, 0:11:17.880 --> 0:11:22.120 aging guy. That was a disappointment. He was not like 0:11:22.679 --> 0:11:27.240 a typical serial killer. He was an outlier. What does 0:11:27.280 --> 0:11:30.480 it say about what we think are formulas. I mean 0:11:30.520 --> 0:11:33.760 the formulas came out of the FBI, they were not 0:11:33.920 --> 0:11:37.640 correct about well the factors in the background of a 0:11:37.679 --> 0:11:42.599 serial killer. So Raider was an opportunity, as an outlier 0:11:42.920 --> 0:11:46.959 to the thinking of the FBI to find out how 0:11:47.000 --> 0:11:49.880 did he become a serial killer? Why did he want 0:11:49.960 --> 0:11:50.480 to do this? 0:11:51.640 --> 0:11:54.760 That's a really good question. When most people think of 0:11:54.800 --> 0:12:00.400 a serial killer, they imagine this mysterious genius, some evil 0:12:00.520 --> 0:12:05.520 celebrity type, someone who stands out. But to the naked eye, 0:12:05.679 --> 0:12:09.280 Raider was none of those things, at least on the surface. 0:12:09.720 --> 0:12:13.000 Raider had a fairly average Midwestern upbringing. 0:12:14.400 --> 0:12:18.160 Nothing about his childhood stands out as something you would 0:12:18.240 --> 0:12:21.240 expect for a person who grew up to become a 0:12:21.280 --> 0:12:25.080 serial killer. He didn't have abuse, he didn't have neglect. 0:12:25.840 --> 0:12:28.720 I mean, there really wasn't anything. He had an intact family. 0:12:29.320 --> 0:12:31.880 They didn't have a lot, but they had a house, 0:12:32.360 --> 0:12:35.880 they raised chickens and rabbits, and he had a dog. 0:12:36.760 --> 0:12:37.960 So pretty normal. 0:12:39.080 --> 0:12:48.120 But what you see isn't always the truth. Dennis Raider 0:12:48.440 --> 0:12:52.280 grew up in and around Wichita. Dennis was the eldest 0:12:52.520 --> 0:12:55.080 of four boys. 0:12:54.840 --> 0:12:58.280 So as the oldest brother. He was kind of the leader. 0:12:58.440 --> 0:13:01.120 They did a lot of cowboys in India, says kids 0:13:01.160 --> 0:13:04.880 out in the Midwest do. He had friends. He did 0:13:04.920 --> 0:13:09.240 a few pranky things, breaking into his school once. For 0:13:09.280 --> 0:13:10.880 the most part, he was a pretty good kid. 0:13:12.080 --> 0:13:15.800 But as Ramsland and others have learned since, there were 0:13:16.040 --> 0:13:20.120 peculiar and haunting signs in Raider's early life. 0:13:21.400 --> 0:13:24.560 He had some resentment towards his mother. Most of the 0:13:24.600 --> 0:13:28.600 things he remembered about his mother were when she humiliated 0:13:28.720 --> 0:13:33.280 him or made him feel powerless. That's important to his 0:13:33.480 --> 0:13:37.040 development into a murderer, specifically of women. 0:13:38.280 --> 0:13:42.280 Apparently, Raider didn't think very highly of his mother, but 0:13:42.440 --> 0:13:45.160 more than that, he almost seemed to hate her. 0:13:46.559 --> 0:13:49.160 His feeling was that she wasn't a very good Christian, 0:13:50.480 --> 0:13:54.000 which I think is interesting. The memories that stood up 0:13:54.040 --> 0:13:58.000 most of him are when she shamed him once when 0:13:58.040 --> 0:14:02.320 he had an omission in his underwear and she was 0:14:02.400 --> 0:14:05.080 horrified and said, you know, when your father gets home, 0:14:05.120 --> 0:14:07.040 I'm going to tell him about this, and this is 0:14:07.080 --> 0:14:11.120 not something good boys do. And she made him feel 0:14:11.160 --> 0:14:16.280 awful about himself, powerless. The one memory had that he 0:14:16.400 --> 0:14:19.200 kept saying over and over and over was so important. 0:14:19.480 --> 0:14:23.600 It was one time she was moving furniture around got 0:14:23.600 --> 0:14:27.800 her ring caught on a spring on a couch, and 0:14:27.880 --> 0:14:31.120 she told him to go get help. And he said 0:14:31.120 --> 0:14:35.840 that seeing her helpless and him in position to have 0:14:36.040 --> 0:14:41.920 some power over her had been very arousing. He was 0:14:41.960 --> 0:14:45.080 just a young boy, but it was really exciting to 0:14:45.160 --> 0:14:48.200 him to see that look of helplessness on her face, 0:14:48.840 --> 0:14:52.680 and that would become the image that he wanted to 0:14:53.000 --> 0:14:57.080 replicate on the faces of his female victims. Was that 0:14:57.320 --> 0:15:02.000 completely helpless woman who who needs him to do something, 0:15:02.680 --> 0:15:05.680 and what he does is killed them. 0:15:05.960 --> 0:15:10.240 A Raider was also infatuated with TV and movies as 0:15:10.280 --> 0:15:14.160 a kid. The media he consumed left a large and 0:15:14.360 --> 0:15:15.960 lasting impression on him. 0:15:17.200 --> 0:15:20.480 One of the most formative things that happened to him 0:15:20.640 --> 0:15:23.440 as a kid was watching a movie called The House 0:15:23.480 --> 0:15:26.400 of Wax. And it was only when I watched it 0:15:26.440 --> 0:15:30.800 that I realized how inappropriate this movie was for kids 0:15:30.840 --> 0:15:34.280 to see. There is a guy who was taking live 0:15:34.360 --> 0:15:37.680 people and covering them in wax for his museum. 0:15:38.320 --> 0:15:39.880 You shouldn't have done that, my dear. 0:15:41.240 --> 0:15:42.080 It is Kathy. 0:15:43.000 --> 0:15:44.800 It's Kathy's body under the wax. 0:15:45.480 --> 0:15:46.000 I knew it. 0:15:47.280 --> 0:15:51.760 But one scene that I think was very memorable to 0:15:52.400 --> 0:15:56.000 young Dennis was a dark haired woman's whose mother was 0:15:56.080 --> 0:16:01.760 dark haired, being bound and she's naked. You don't see 0:16:01.800 --> 0:16:03.480 all of her, but you definitely know she doesn't have 0:16:03.520 --> 0:16:07.960 clothes on, and she's struggling as she's about to get 0:16:08.120 --> 0:16:12.520 the hot wax dripped on her, killing her. And I'm 0:16:12.640 --> 0:16:17.240 sure that he was just fixated on that image of 0:16:17.280 --> 0:16:22.400 a dark haired woman struggling and bound, because that became 0:16:22.840 --> 0:16:25.840 central to his sexual fantasies later on. 0:16:27.640 --> 0:16:32.720 This was just the beginning of Raider's obsession with torture. 0:16:40.920 --> 0:16:45.680 As a young boy, Dennis Raider's fascination with bondage took root. 0:16:46.240 --> 0:16:50.400 As Catherine Ramsland says, he developed a love for garments. 0:16:51.680 --> 0:16:56.040 He would cozy up to his grandmother and the silkiness 0:16:56.080 --> 0:16:59.640 of her ribbons in her hair, and then sometimes he'd 0:17:00.160 --> 0:17:03.360 through the drawers of his mother and grandmother and the 0:17:03.880 --> 0:17:07.879 slips and the underwear. He just loved the silkiness of that, 0:17:08.000 --> 0:17:11.479 so that became part of it. But nothing was quite 0:17:11.520 --> 0:17:16.000 as forceful for him as bondage. He got in the 0:17:16.040 --> 0:17:20.760 barn and tie ropes around his waist, and eventually, as 0:17:20.800 --> 0:17:24.399 he matured, he would have orgasms when he did this 0:17:24.560 --> 0:17:29.240 without touching himself. According to him, just that pressure around 0:17:29.240 --> 0:17:33.240 his waist would be enough, and so bondage became a 0:17:33.400 --> 0:17:36.960 huge deal for him. And as he merged that with 0:17:37.080 --> 0:17:40.760 the image of the struggling bound of woman, that became 0:17:41.280 --> 0:17:47.480 the central figure of his erotic fantasies. Then he discovered 0:17:47.880 --> 0:17:52.919 when he was fourteen, he discovered true Detective magazines that 0:17:53.000 --> 0:17:55.800 his father was reading and hiding in the car, and 0:17:56.400 --> 0:18:01.360 one of them was about Harvey Glatman. And Harvey Glatman 0:18:01.520 --> 0:18:05.639 was a serial killer from the fifties who would persuade women, 0:18:05.880 --> 0:18:09.840 beautiful women to come and model for him. He'd pretend 0:18:09.840 --> 0:18:12.920 to be a photographer and then he'd say, well, he's 0:18:12.960 --> 0:18:16.560 taken photographs for these True Detective magazines and he needs 0:18:16.600 --> 0:18:19.080 to bind them because you have to have the bound, 0:18:19.359 --> 0:18:22.840 terrified woman. And they would let him, and then once 0:18:22.840 --> 0:18:25.159 he had them bound, he would tell them he was 0:18:25.200 --> 0:18:27.840 going to kill them and then get these photos of 0:18:27.920 --> 0:18:32.520 the utterly terrified, bound, trapped female. And they did end 0:18:32.600 --> 0:18:36.480 up on the covers of a True Detective magazine, and 0:18:36.720 --> 0:18:41.320 Raider saw this image of a totally helpless woman, which 0:18:41.400 --> 0:18:45.800 is similar to that image of his mother. This totally helpless, bound, 0:18:46.280 --> 0:18:52.000 scantily clad female and sealed itself. So he's fourteen and 0:18:52.040 --> 0:18:55.080 he's looking at this and going that is the image 0:18:55.320 --> 0:18:59.560 that he would always want to try to replicate, bondage, 0:18:59.720 --> 0:19:04.080 which was erotic to him as self. Bondage became part 0:19:04.200 --> 0:19:08.040 of what had to be in all of his murders. 0:19:08.040 --> 0:19:11.800 He had to have the bondage thing always. 0:19:13.280 --> 0:19:18.119 Raider's daughter Carrie now even remembers her dad talking about 0:19:18.119 --> 0:19:19.720 these detective magazines. 0:19:21.320 --> 0:19:25.360 Now, I thought maybe those were inappropriate, but somebody told 0:19:25.400 --> 0:19:29.040 me they were pretty normal in a drugstore, bondage photos 0:19:29.080 --> 0:19:33.120 of women. So my dad was influenced by this. When 0:19:33.119 --> 0:19:35.040 he was seven or eight years old, he's reading these 0:19:35.040 --> 0:19:36.000 detective magazines. 0:19:36.040 --> 0:19:38.000 He's influenced by these photos. 0:19:38.520 --> 0:19:40.840 If you talk to my dad, it sounds like he 0:19:40.920 --> 0:19:43.600 probably had what nowadays we call a conduct disorder when 0:19:43.640 --> 0:19:44.520 he was a young boy. 0:19:45.040 --> 0:19:47.639 There was no help. In the forties and fifties. 0:19:48.440 --> 0:19:53.960 It only got worse. Raiders' fantasies became more and more elaborate. 0:19:55.240 --> 0:19:59.080 He would imagine creating what he called girl traps where 0:19:59.240 --> 0:20:03.160 they would be totally helpless. He would have complete control 0:20:03.200 --> 0:20:06.200 and domination over them, and so that was a big 0:20:06.240 --> 0:20:09.000 part of his fantasies. He would draw that on the 0:20:09.040 --> 0:20:13.919 board in his classroom while other people are out at recess. 0:20:13.680 --> 0:20:19.000 On the farm. Raider tested out his ideas on animals. 0:20:20.440 --> 0:20:24.959 A very good precursor for crimes is animal cruelty. Animal 0:20:25.000 --> 0:20:28.399 cruelty is a big, big one, and he got heavily 0:20:28.400 --> 0:20:32.600 involved with that, killing cats, killing dogs. My name is 0:20:32.680 --> 0:20:36.000 John Douglas. I was with the FBI for twenty five years. 0:20:36.640 --> 0:20:39.879 Wrote a book about inside the Mind of the BTK Strangler. 0:20:40.359 --> 0:20:42.879 I was one of the first people to analyze a 0:20:42.960 --> 0:20:45.159 case and was pretty good analysis. 0:20:46.359 --> 0:20:49.600 You've probably heard about John Douglas before. He is the 0:20:49.640 --> 0:20:53.879 famed FBI profiler who helped kickstart the agency's study on 0:20:53.960 --> 0:20:57.800 serial killers in the nineteen seventies. He was also the 0:20:57.840 --> 0:21:03.399 inspiration for the Netflix series mind Hunter. Like Catherine Ramsland, 0:21:03.640 --> 0:21:07.760 he dedicated years of his life to trying to understand BTK. 0:21:09.040 --> 0:21:09.200 Now. 0:21:09.200 --> 0:21:11.879 The best place to look, he says, is in early 0:21:12.000 --> 0:21:17.480 childhood and pretty early on, Dennis Rader took interest in 0:21:17.560 --> 0:21:22.600 some very troubling behavior. As he just mentioned, Raider took 0:21:22.720 --> 0:21:25.280 joy in causing harm to animals. 0:21:26.520 --> 0:21:29.959 He went on a family grouping where they had a 0:21:30.080 --> 0:21:33.159 chicken to cook. They bound the chicken up and he 0:21:33.240 --> 0:21:35.800 tied him to a post before they killed the chicken, 0:21:35.920 --> 0:21:40.920 and he liked that. He got excited about that as well. 0:21:42.400 --> 0:21:46.760 As Douglas says, this all came back to his bondage fetish. 0:21:46.800 --> 0:21:53.160 He enjoyed being in control while something or someone was helpless. 0:21:53.960 --> 0:21:57.159 He liked the appearance of bondage and where someone is 0:21:57.200 --> 0:21:59.880 stuck someone's control, someone can't get away, The chicken can't 0:21:59.880 --> 0:22:00.440 get get away. 0:22:02.480 --> 0:22:06.919 Eventually, Raider became bored with the fantasies, the magazines, and 0:22:06.960 --> 0:22:11.200 the chickens. As a young man, he escalated to finding 0:22:11.560 --> 0:22:16.840 women and stalking them. At first, it started with just looking. 0:22:17.920 --> 0:22:20.600 He was certainly at peeping Tom, and he was already 0:22:20.600 --> 0:22:25.439 beginning to be fetishistic where he wanted underwear clothing that 0:22:25.480 --> 0:22:28.760 he was steel offul lines in the neighborhood. And then 0:22:28.800 --> 0:22:32.040 he was involved in peeping tom, looking through the windows, 0:22:32.080 --> 0:22:36.120 looking at people being undressed. He would not enter until 0:22:36.400 --> 0:22:39.040 he got older, but when he was younger he was 0:22:39.119 --> 0:22:43.840 just looking and fantasizing about what he could do. As 0:22:43.840 --> 0:22:47.160 he began to age, he then began entering the houses. 0:22:48.119 --> 0:22:51.359 He thought of himself like a spy. He did do 0:22:51.560 --> 0:22:54.879 some surveillance of people, some following women. 0:22:56.080 --> 0:23:00.000 This is Catherine Ramsland again. She says that after high school, 0:23:00.280 --> 0:23:03.840 Raider joined the Air Force in nineteen sixty six. He 0:23:03.880 --> 0:23:08.120 did basic training in Texas before being stationed in Okinawa 0:23:08.359 --> 0:23:13.760 and eventually Tokyo, and his experiences there only deepened his 0:23:13.920 --> 0:23:15.480 fanatical tendencies. 0:23:16.760 --> 0:23:20.000 He had sexual experiences when he was in the military 0:23:20.160 --> 0:23:26.040 with sex workers that kind of sealed the fantasy, and 0:23:26.760 --> 0:23:30.479 it was after he came back and had gotten married 0:23:31.040 --> 0:23:34.200 that he began thinking about abducting women. 0:23:38.280 --> 0:23:41.000 Raider left the Air Force in nineteen seventy and moved 0:23:41.000 --> 0:23:45.439 back to Wichita. There he met Pauladetz, whom he married 0:23:45.480 --> 0:23:49.760 in nineteen seventy one. But, as Catherine Ramsland said, his 0:23:49.960 --> 0:23:54.879 marriage did not stop him from pursuing his fantasies of abduction. 0:23:55.760 --> 0:23:58.760 He started to pick women in the neighborhood and think 0:23:58.800 --> 0:24:01.120 about ways to snatch them. 0:24:02.440 --> 0:24:05.359 He wanted to take them to an abandoned farm, so 0:24:05.440 --> 0:24:09.959 he had scouted out farmsteads around Kansas, and he wanted 0:24:09.960 --> 0:24:11.840 to abduct this bank teller. 0:24:13.160 --> 0:24:17.080 Ramselin elaborates on this incident in her book Confession of 0:24:17.119 --> 0:24:21.440 a Serial Killer. Here is what Raider told her. 0:24:22.119 --> 0:24:24.639 I saw a bank teller at the Twin Lakes Bank. 0:24:25.600 --> 0:24:28.160 I had seen her when Paula and I did business there. 0:24:28.880 --> 0:24:31.480 I knew when she had a lunch hower. The bank 0:24:31.480 --> 0:24:34.800 teller parked her car across the street of twenty first North. 0:24:35.640 --> 0:24:39.320 Many cars there could shield me in hiding. I knew 0:24:39.359 --> 0:24:40.800 her car. 0:24:41.400 --> 0:24:42.919 He didn't know what he was going to do. He 0:24:42.960 --> 0:24:45.240 hadn't planned very far, except that he was going to 0:24:45.280 --> 0:24:49.800 take this young woman out to the abandoned barn, find her, 0:24:49.960 --> 0:24:50.840 do something with her. 0:24:52.240 --> 0:24:56.119 My main theme was to hang someone. The act of 0:24:56.240 --> 0:25:01.240 hanging was sexually exciting to me. Of being bound or 0:25:01.560 --> 0:25:05.280 straining with the rope or noose around the neck, legs bound, 0:25:05.440 --> 0:25:10.600 and no escape. For self gratification, I had hanged myself 0:25:10.680 --> 0:25:13.760 to the point of almost passing out. I had an 0:25:13.800 --> 0:25:18.280 old barn in mind. We could be completely alone and 0:25:18.320 --> 0:25:22.600 I could better control them. I loved old barnes, and 0:25:22.640 --> 0:25:25.520 there were several located around Wichita that I could use 0:25:25.680 --> 0:25:27.600 for hanging victims. 0:25:28.200 --> 0:25:30.359 That was the first time he really acted on the 0:25:30.400 --> 0:25:36.560 fantasy is I'm going to grab somebody. 0:25:35.080 --> 0:25:39.280 Timed like a clock. She entered her car, I approached 0:25:39.400 --> 0:25:43.399 and tried to force myself in. She screamed and fought back. 0:25:44.400 --> 0:25:47.840 I finally gave up and told her I'm sorry. I 0:25:47.880 --> 0:25:50.000 was trying to take a vehicle and leave the area. 0:25:50.920 --> 0:25:55.360 It was a ruse that calmed her down. I told 0:25:55.400 --> 0:25:57.480 her I was going to leave her alone, and I 0:25:57.560 --> 0:25:58.320 quickly left. 0:26:00.000 --> 0:26:01.919 But that was the start, and the fact that he 0:26:02.520 --> 0:26:13.520