1 00:00:02,680 --> 00:00:06,680 Speaker 1: New episodes of Monster BTK are released every Monday and 2 00:00:06,800 --> 00:00:10,440 Speaker 1: brought to you absolutely free. But if you want to 3 00:00:10,480 --> 00:00:13,840 Speaker 1: hear the whole season right now, it's available ad free 4 00:00:13,880 --> 00:00:18,120 Speaker 1: on iHeart True Crime Plus. For more information, check out 5 00:00:18,200 --> 00:00:24,640 Speaker 1: the show notes. Enjoy the episode. 6 00:00:24,680 --> 00:00:29,360 Speaker 2: You're listening to Monster BTK, a production of iHeart Podcasts 7 00:00:29,600 --> 00:00:33,560 Speaker 2: and Tenderfoot TV. Listener discretion is advised. 8 00:00:37,560 --> 00:00:40,919 Speaker 3: I think he would have eventually killed again. But what 9 00:00:41,040 --> 00:00:45,280 Speaker 3: really got him to finally surface, which was his downfall? 10 00:00:46,000 --> 00:00:51,000 Speaker 3: It was the thirtieth anniversary of the crime. A lawyer 11 00:00:51,159 --> 00:00:54,560 Speaker 3: in town was going to write a book. When he 12 00:00:54,640 --> 00:00:57,840 Speaker 3: read that, he says, no one's going to write this book. 13 00:00:58,320 --> 00:00:59,680 Speaker 3: What do they know about me? They don't know the 14 00:00:59,720 --> 00:01:02,680 Speaker 3: motive or anything. I'm going to be the one to 15 00:01:02,720 --> 00:01:05,560 Speaker 3: write this book. That's how he surfaced. 16 00:01:06,840 --> 00:01:10,120 Speaker 4: This was definitely the opportunity that he was waiting for 17 00:01:10,600 --> 00:01:15,000 Speaker 4: to come forth. Here he is back in the news 18 00:01:15,880 --> 00:01:19,480 Speaker 4: and in his mind, you know, his hero status, and 19 00:01:19,560 --> 00:01:22,400 Speaker 4: now he's starting to show off the trophies. He's starting 20 00:01:22,400 --> 00:01:25,880 Speaker 4: to send his trophies. He wants to be back in 21 00:01:25,920 --> 00:01:30,759 Speaker 4: the news, he wants his fifteen minutes of fame, he 22 00:01:30,840 --> 00:01:33,840 Speaker 4: wants to be identified and I kind of set up 23 00:01:33,840 --> 00:01:35,840 Speaker 4: with tongue in cheek that if we hadn't figured out 24 00:01:35,840 --> 00:01:37,200 Speaker 4: who it was, he would have called it to a 25 00:01:37,280 --> 00:01:38,000 Speaker 4: news conference. 26 00:01:39,400 --> 00:01:43,200 Speaker 5: He wanted to control the narrative. He thought about what 27 00:01:43,319 --> 00:01:45,400 Speaker 5: if he got caught, and he had kind of a 28 00:01:45,440 --> 00:01:48,400 Speaker 5: plan in place as to what he would do about that. 29 00:01:49,320 --> 00:01:51,840 Speaker 5: So he decided he was going to come back and 30 00:01:51,920 --> 00:01:54,560 Speaker 5: start doing this cat and mouse thing where he would 31 00:01:54,600 --> 00:02:00,360 Speaker 5: send these missives to the police to show that story 32 00:02:00,440 --> 00:02:03,040 Speaker 5: isn't over and that he's also looking. 33 00:02:02,760 --> 00:02:04,240 Speaker 6: For the next victim. 34 00:02:05,000 --> 00:02:08,440 Speaker 5: He used it on a church computer so that it 35 00:02:08,480 --> 00:02:12,840 Speaker 5: was traceable back to that computer. His name was there. 36 00:02:14,360 --> 00:02:18,640 Speaker 5: So finally the police watched his routine the way he 37 00:02:18,680 --> 00:02:22,839 Speaker 5: had been watching victim routines to figure out he goes 38 00:02:22,880 --> 00:02:26,200 Speaker 5: home for lunch every day. This is when to get him. 39 00:02:26,680 --> 00:02:30,639 Speaker 7: Agents from the KBI, agents from the FBI, and members 40 00:02:30,639 --> 00:02:35,919 Speaker 7: of the Wichita Police Department arrested Dennis Raider, fifty nine 41 00:02:35,919 --> 00:02:39,240 Speaker 7: in a white male in Park City, Kansas. 42 00:02:40,000 --> 00:02:44,040 Speaker 5: And so they pulled him over and he acted like, 43 00:02:45,000 --> 00:02:48,079 Speaker 5: what took you so long? I've been waiting for you. 44 00:02:51,560 --> 00:02:54,520 Speaker 8: Someone killed four members of a family. 45 00:02:54,760 --> 00:02:56,000 Speaker 6: Had you vanished from her home? 46 00:02:56,080 --> 00:02:56,480 Speaker 3: Suddenly? 47 00:02:56,560 --> 00:02:59,360 Speaker 6: Last weekend, her phone lines had been cut, her door 48 00:02:59,440 --> 00:02:59,960 Speaker 6: left open. 49 00:03:00,280 --> 00:03:03,400 Speaker 4: You see the victim play in there with plastic bags 50 00:03:03,400 --> 00:03:06,440 Speaker 4: over their heads, strangled. You could tell it was a 51 00:03:06,520 --> 00:03:07,800 Speaker 4: plan scenario. 52 00:03:08,040 --> 00:03:10,480 Speaker 9: Well, police have said no more about the contents of 53 00:03:10,520 --> 00:03:10,880 Speaker 9: the letter. 54 00:03:11,040 --> 00:03:14,040 Speaker 6: It does contain some sort of threat and implies the 55 00:03:14,120 --> 00:03:15,560 Speaker 6: killer may strike again. 56 00:03:15,880 --> 00:03:17,399 Speaker 7: He's got to play with these victims. 57 00:03:18,080 --> 00:03:20,680 Speaker 3: He'd get him to the point of death and then 58 00:03:20,680 --> 00:03:23,400 Speaker 3: bring them back and then brings them back to the 59 00:03:23,400 --> 00:03:24,160 Speaker 3: point of death. 60 00:03:25,800 --> 00:03:31,280 Speaker 10: From My Heart Podcasts and Tenderfoot TV, I'm Susan Peters 61 00:03:31,919 --> 00:03:35,360 Speaker 10: and this is Monster BTK. 62 00:03:40,960 --> 00:03:44,040 Speaker 11: Moments ago a press conference in the City Council Chambers 63 00:03:44,040 --> 00:03:48,160 Speaker 11: at City Hall concluded, we finally came down to an 64 00:03:48,200 --> 00:03:51,720 Speaker 11: announcement of what a lot of Wichetan's have been waiting 65 00:03:51,760 --> 00:03:53,160 Speaker 11: for for well over thirty years. 66 00:03:53,480 --> 00:03:57,600 Speaker 4: He actually named himself BTK, Bind, torture and kill. This 67 00:03:57,800 --> 00:04:00,480 Speaker 4: coward killed the father in the house that day, he 68 00:04:00,600 --> 00:04:03,080 Speaker 4: killed the mother, tied them both up and towards of them. 69 00:04:03,440 --> 00:04:07,280 Speaker 11: And again the question that arises is in one of 70 00:04:07,280 --> 00:04:09,480 Speaker 11: the questions that is he had to be answered. Was 71 00:04:09,520 --> 00:04:11,200 Speaker 11: he trying to be caught? 72 00:04:12,560 --> 00:04:16,880 Speaker 10: On February twenty fifth, two thousand and five, Dennis Raider 73 00:04:17,120 --> 00:04:21,840 Speaker 10: was revealed to be the BTK killer. To everyone's surprise, 74 00:04:22,000 --> 00:04:26,200 Speaker 10: he was a seemingly normal guy fifty nine years old, 75 00:04:26,600 --> 00:04:30,039 Speaker 10: worked a city job, owned a house with his wife, 76 00:04:30,600 --> 00:04:36,839 Speaker 10: two kids, wore glasses balding. As my former KTV anchor 77 00:04:36,920 --> 00:04:41,640 Speaker 10: Larry Hadeberg says, this is not the guy we were expecting. 78 00:04:42,360 --> 00:04:46,720 Speaker 8: When people said BTK, you think of a wild eyed 79 00:04:47,160 --> 00:04:52,680 Speaker 8: Manson like character, just a crazy person. What we didn't 80 00:04:52,800 --> 00:04:58,400 Speaker 8: understand is he was the guy next door. He went 81 00:04:58,440 --> 00:05:01,960 Speaker 8: to a local church, he was in charge of the congregation. 82 00:05:02,720 --> 00:05:06,800 Speaker 8: He worked in an important job in Park City, Kansas. 83 00:05:07,160 --> 00:05:09,440 Speaker 8: He was going to the grocery store with us. He 84 00:05:09,480 --> 00:05:12,000 Speaker 8: was going to the movies with us. I would have 85 00:05:12,200 --> 00:05:14,520 Speaker 8: never ever guessed that. 86 00:05:16,960 --> 00:05:20,920 Speaker 10: Hours after he was captured, I realized I had seen 87 00:05:21,000 --> 00:05:26,960 Speaker 10: this man before, and very recently. Only two weeks prior, 88 00:05:27,560 --> 00:05:30,520 Speaker 10: Dennis Rader, along with a tour group from Christ Lutheran, 89 00:05:30,920 --> 00:05:35,480 Speaker 10: had visited KKTV. In fact, he had personally requested the 90 00:05:35,520 --> 00:05:38,919 Speaker 10: tour for himself and six other members of his church. 91 00:05:40,160 --> 00:05:41,200 Speaker 6: I remember I. 92 00:05:41,320 --> 00:05:45,159 Speaker 10: First saw him sitting in a folding chair three feet 93 00:05:45,160 --> 00:05:48,880 Speaker 10: away from me as we reported the latest on the BTK. 94 00:05:50,040 --> 00:05:53,400 Speaker 10: In fact, he walked around the studio, chatting it up 95 00:05:53,440 --> 00:05:55,920 Speaker 10: with all of us. He then asked if he could 96 00:05:55,960 --> 00:06:00,280 Speaker 10: take pictures with his thirty five millimeter camera, and then, 97 00:06:00,320 --> 00:06:04,159 Speaker 10: to my surprise, without asking, he slung his arm around 98 00:06:04,200 --> 00:06:08,200 Speaker 10: my shoulder and snapped a photo with me looking back. 99 00:06:08,440 --> 00:06:12,920 Speaker 10: I am filled with dread realizing that he was in 100 00:06:12,960 --> 00:06:17,240 Speaker 10: fact the BTK killer. After he was caught, I was 101 00:06:17,440 --> 00:06:23,440 Speaker 10: just shocked by how brazen this was. One of the 102 00:06:23,480 --> 00:06:27,640 Speaker 10: first people to learn about btk's identity was his daughter, 103 00:06:28,240 --> 00:06:29,040 Speaker 10: Carrie Rawson. 104 00:06:30,440 --> 00:06:33,520 Speaker 6: People are like, how did you not know these things? 105 00:06:34,040 --> 00:06:35,200 Speaker 6: But Dad was dad. 106 00:06:35,880 --> 00:06:38,760 Speaker 9: I mean, he'd always had been short tempered at times, 107 00:06:38,800 --> 00:06:41,000 Speaker 9: short fused, controlling. 108 00:06:41,680 --> 00:06:42,839 Speaker 6: I didn't know any difference. 109 00:06:44,440 --> 00:06:47,600 Speaker 10: In the aftermath of his capture, everyone wanted to know 110 00:06:47,680 --> 00:06:51,599 Speaker 10: the details of this now famous killer named Dennis Rader, 111 00:06:52,560 --> 00:06:56,440 Speaker 10: But Carrie says her father's life was pretty normal, at 112 00:06:56,560 --> 00:06:59,080 Speaker 10: least on the outside. 113 00:06:59,240 --> 00:07:04,160 Speaker 9: We were pretty much the classic Midwestern family, middle class, 114 00:07:04,400 --> 00:07:09,920 Speaker 9: three bedroom ranch, meticulous yard flowers, tulips, the grass mode. 115 00:07:10,440 --> 00:07:12,560 Speaker 6: We go to church on Sundays religiously. 116 00:07:13,600 --> 00:07:16,800 Speaker 9: He was like full suit tie. He would polish his 117 00:07:16,840 --> 00:07:17,800 Speaker 9: shoes the night before. 118 00:07:19,240 --> 00:07:22,800 Speaker 10: Years later, Carrie was forced to come to terms with 119 00:07:22,880 --> 00:07:26,240 Speaker 10: who her father was, and she was plagued by the 120 00:07:26,360 --> 00:07:31,520 Speaker 10: obvious question, how how could an average joe like her 121 00:07:31,640 --> 00:07:34,240 Speaker 10: dad become such a monster? 122 00:07:36,040 --> 00:07:38,600 Speaker 9: I mean, I think his three brothers turned out fine. 123 00:07:38,640 --> 00:07:41,080 Speaker 9: So if you're going to do nurturn nature debate, I mean, 124 00:07:41,160 --> 00:07:43,040 Speaker 9: all have the same genetics in the same home life 125 00:07:43,040 --> 00:07:45,960 Speaker 9: and they're fine. So what makes one person turn into 126 00:07:46,000 --> 00:07:47,840 Speaker 9: this a monster and other. 127 00:07:47,840 --> 00:07:48,680 Speaker 6: People not be? 128 00:07:49,480 --> 00:07:51,520 Speaker 9: I don't think anybody really knows, and I don't think 129 00:07:51,520 --> 00:07:55,040 Speaker 9: he knows. One of the keys to my dad is 130 00:07:55,440 --> 00:07:58,680 Speaker 9: figuring out what drives that. But also, like, is there 131 00:07:58,720 --> 00:08:01,120 Speaker 9: a way to like help somebody like that before it 132 00:08:01,160 --> 00:08:04,679 Speaker 9: turns into murder? Or give them an outlet it's safe 133 00:08:04,680 --> 00:08:07,080 Speaker 9: outlet where they're not hurting anybody. 134 00:08:08,480 --> 00:08:13,080 Speaker 10: As to how a supposedly normal guy could murder innocent people, 135 00:08:13,840 --> 00:08:18,480 Speaker 10: Carrie says she is just as stumped as everyone else. 136 00:08:19,600 --> 00:08:21,960 Speaker 6: There isn't just one answer to these guys. 137 00:08:22,800 --> 00:08:26,240 Speaker 9: It's complicated, and you're relying on someone that's not a 138 00:08:26,280 --> 00:08:29,080 Speaker 9: reliable narrator to help you figure out what's wrong with them. 139 00:08:29,120 --> 00:08:30,880 Speaker 9: They hold their keys and they don't even know what's 140 00:08:30,920 --> 00:08:32,920 Speaker 9: wrong with them. And then he's over here reading trying 141 00:08:32,920 --> 00:08:34,559 Speaker 9: to figure out what's wrong with them. 142 00:08:35,200 --> 00:08:39,600 Speaker 10: Throughout this podcast, Carrie will provide first hand insight on 143 00:08:39,679 --> 00:08:46,440 Speaker 10: her father, Dennis Raider. There is perhaps no better time 144 00:08:46,559 --> 00:08:50,840 Speaker 10: than right now to revisit the BTK story. According to 145 00:08:50,920 --> 00:08:54,959 Speaker 10: many sources, Raider's health is declining. He may not have 146 00:08:55,040 --> 00:08:59,920 Speaker 10: many years left to live. His victims are finally speaking up, 147 00:09:00,600 --> 00:09:05,480 Speaker 10: ready to tell their stories after all these years, and 148 00:09:05,600 --> 00:09:09,079 Speaker 10: most frightening of all, it might not be over. 149 00:09:10,520 --> 00:09:14,400 Speaker 12: The Osage County, Oklahoma Sheriff's office says an old crossword 150 00:09:14,440 --> 00:09:17,840 Speaker 12: puzzle from Dennis Rader links the serial killer to the 151 00:09:17,880 --> 00:09:22,479 Speaker 12: disappearance of Cynthia don Kinney from Pahuska, Oklahoma. 152 00:09:23,200 --> 00:09:28,880 Speaker 10: That's right. In twenty twenty three, police discovered new cases 153 00:09:29,240 --> 00:09:33,360 Speaker 10: in Oklahoma and Missouri that might be the work of 154 00:09:33,480 --> 00:09:39,439 Speaker 10: BTK cases we didn't know about until now. Raider refuses 155 00:09:39,480 --> 00:09:42,880 Speaker 10: to give straight answers from prison, but he's playing along. 156 00:09:43,679 --> 00:09:49,320 Speaker 10: It seems like he's enjoying the fame and publicity. It's 157 00:09:49,360 --> 00:09:55,440 Speaker 10: a level of sickness that's difficult to fathom. 158 00:09:54,760 --> 00:10:01,280 Speaker 5: For any psychopathic offender who really doesn't have any remorse 159 00:10:01,400 --> 00:10:05,600 Speaker 5: for what they're doing. I don't think their values comport 160 00:10:05,679 --> 00:10:08,839 Speaker 5: with most of the world, and that's why they can 161 00:10:08,880 --> 00:10:10,840 Speaker 5: get away with. What they can get away with is 162 00:10:11,120 --> 00:10:14,160 Speaker 5: they don't feel any remorse about the things that they're doing. 163 00:10:14,760 --> 00:10:20,400 Speaker 5: And although Raider has never been given the psychopathy checklist evaluation, 164 00:10:21,160 --> 00:10:25,040 Speaker 5: I think it's pretty clear that he has psychopathic features. 165 00:10:26,640 --> 00:10:31,480 Speaker 5: My name is Katherine Ramsland. I'm a professor of forensic psychology, 166 00:10:32,040 --> 00:10:35,840 Speaker 5: the author of Confession of a serial Killer, about Dennis 167 00:10:35,920 --> 00:10:39,199 Speaker 5: Rader and written with Dennis Raider, and an assistant provost 168 00:10:39,240 --> 00:10:40,520 Speaker 5: of the Sales University. 169 00:10:41,840 --> 00:10:44,600 Speaker 10: Ramsland is one of the most knowledgeable people on the 170 00:10:44,720 --> 00:10:48,040 Speaker 10: planet when it comes to the inner workings of Dennis 171 00:10:48,120 --> 00:10:53,520 Speaker 10: Raider's mind. Following his capture, she spent years interviewing Raider 172 00:10:54,000 --> 00:10:58,160 Speaker 10: in person in prison. To her, Raider is one of 173 00:10:58,240 --> 00:11:01,679 Speaker 10: the most peculiar cases out there. First of all, he 174 00:11:01,720 --> 00:11:04,600 Speaker 10: didn't fit the typical image of a serial killer. 175 00:11:05,920 --> 00:11:09,160 Speaker 5: Why didn't he look like Ted Bundy. They were pretty 176 00:11:09,200 --> 00:11:13,120 Speaker 5: disappointed that he wasn't this kind of sexy hotshot that 177 00:11:13,240 --> 00:11:17,440 Speaker 5: Bundy had presented himself to be. He's this kind of pudgy, 178 00:11:17,880 --> 00:11:22,120 Speaker 5: aging guy. That was a disappointment. He was not like 179 00:11:22,679 --> 00:11:27,240 Speaker 5: a typical serial killer. He was an outlier. What does 180 00:11:27,280 --> 00:11:30,480 Speaker 5: it say about what we think are formulas. I mean 181 00:11:30,520 --> 00:11:33,760 Speaker 5: the formulas came out of the FBI, they were not 182 00:11:33,920 --> 00:11:37,640 Speaker 5: correct about well the factors in the background of a 183 00:11:37,679 --> 00:11:42,599 Speaker 5: serial killer. So Raider was an opportunity, as an outlier 184 00:11:42,920 --> 00:11:46,959 Speaker 5: to the thinking of the FBI to find out how 185 00:11:47,000 --> 00:11:49,880 Speaker 5: did he become a serial killer? Why did he want 186 00:11:49,960 --> 00:11:50,480 Speaker 5: to do this? 187 00:11:51,640 --> 00:11:54,760 Speaker 10: That's a really good question. When most people think of 188 00:11:54,800 --> 00:12:00,400 Speaker 10: a serial killer, they imagine this mysterious genius, some evil 189 00:12:00,520 --> 00:12:05,520 Speaker 10: celebrity type, someone who stands out. But to the naked eye, 190 00:12:05,679 --> 00:12:09,280 Speaker 10: Raider was none of those things, at least on the surface. 191 00:12:09,720 --> 00:12:13,000 Speaker 10: Raider had a fairly average Midwestern upbringing. 192 00:12:14,400 --> 00:12:18,160 Speaker 5: Nothing about his childhood stands out as something you would 193 00:12:18,240 --> 00:12:21,240 Speaker 5: expect for a person who grew up to become a 194 00:12:21,280 --> 00:12:25,080 Speaker 5: serial killer. He didn't have abuse, he didn't have neglect. 195 00:12:25,840 --> 00:12:28,720 Speaker 5: I mean, there really wasn't anything. He had an intact family. 196 00:12:29,320 --> 00:12:31,880 Speaker 5: They didn't have a lot, but they had a house, 197 00:12:32,360 --> 00:12:35,880 Speaker 5: they raised chickens and rabbits, and he had a dog. 198 00:12:36,760 --> 00:12:37,960 Speaker 5: So pretty normal. 199 00:12:39,080 --> 00:12:48,120 Speaker 10: But what you see isn't always the truth. Dennis Raider 200 00:12:48,440 --> 00:12:52,280 Speaker 10: grew up in and around Wichita. Dennis was the eldest 201 00:12:52,520 --> 00:12:55,080 Speaker 10: of four boys. 202 00:12:54,840 --> 00:12:58,280 Speaker 5: So as the oldest brother. He was kind of the leader. 203 00:12:58,440 --> 00:13:01,120 Speaker 5: They did a lot of cowboys in India, says kids 204 00:13:01,160 --> 00:13:04,880 Speaker 5: out in the Midwest do. He had friends. He did 205 00:13:04,920 --> 00:13:09,240 Speaker 5: a few pranky things, breaking into his school once. For 206 00:13:09,280 --> 00:13:10,880 Speaker 5: the most part, he was a pretty good kid. 207 00:13:12,080 --> 00:13:15,800 Speaker 10: But as Ramsland and others have learned since, there were 208 00:13:16,040 --> 00:13:20,120 Speaker 10: peculiar and haunting signs in Raider's early life. 209 00:13:21,400 --> 00:13:24,560 Speaker 5: He had some resentment towards his mother. Most of the 210 00:13:24,600 --> 00:13:28,600 Speaker 5: things he remembered about his mother were when she humiliated 211 00:13:28,720 --> 00:13:33,280 Speaker 5: him or made him feel powerless. That's important to his 212 00:13:33,480 --> 00:13:37,040 Speaker 5: development into a murderer, specifically of women. 213 00:13:38,280 --> 00:13:42,280 Speaker 10: Apparently, Raider didn't think very highly of his mother, but 214 00:13:42,440 --> 00:13:45,160 Speaker 10: more than that, he almost seemed to hate her. 215 00:13:46,559 --> 00:13:49,160 Speaker 5: His feeling was that she wasn't a very good Christian, 216 00:13:50,480 --> 00:13:54,000 Speaker 5: which I think is interesting. The memories that stood up 217 00:13:54,040 --> 00:13:58,000 Speaker 5: most of him are when she shamed him once when 218 00:13:58,040 --> 00:14:02,320 Speaker 5: he had an omission in his underwear and she was 219 00:14:02,400 --> 00:14:05,080 Speaker 5: horrified and said, you know, when your father gets home, 220 00:14:05,120 --> 00:14:07,040 Speaker 5: I'm going to tell him about this, and this is 221 00:14:07,080 --> 00:14:11,120 Speaker 5: not something good boys do. And she made him feel 222 00:14:11,160 --> 00:14:16,280 Speaker 5: awful about himself, powerless. The one memory had that he 223 00:14:16,400 --> 00:14:19,200 Speaker 5: kept saying over and over and over was so important. 224 00:14:19,480 --> 00:14:23,600 Speaker 5: It was one time she was moving furniture around got 225 00:14:23,600 --> 00:14:27,800 Speaker 5: her ring caught on a spring on a couch, and 226 00:14:27,880 --> 00:14:31,120 Speaker 5: she told him to go get help. And he said 227 00:14:31,120 --> 00:14:35,840 Speaker 5: that seeing her helpless and him in position to have 228 00:14:36,040 --> 00:14:41,920 Speaker 5: some power over her had been very arousing. He was 229 00:14:41,960 --> 00:14:45,080 Speaker 5: just a young boy, but it was really exciting to 230 00:14:45,160 --> 00:14:48,200 Speaker 5: him to see that look of helplessness on her face, 231 00:14:48,840 --> 00:14:52,680 Speaker 5: and that would become the image that he wanted to 232 00:14:53,000 --> 00:14:57,080 Speaker 5: replicate on the faces of his female victims. Was that 233 00:14:57,320 --> 00:15:02,000 Speaker 5: completely helpless woman who who needs him to do something, 234 00:15:02,680 --> 00:15:05,680 Speaker 5: and what he does is killed them. 235 00:15:05,960 --> 00:15:10,240 Speaker 10: A Raider was also infatuated with TV and movies as 236 00:15:10,280 --> 00:15:14,160 Speaker 10: a kid. The media he consumed left a large and 237 00:15:14,360 --> 00:15:15,960 Speaker 10: lasting impression on him. 238 00:15:17,200 --> 00:15:20,480 Speaker 5: One of the most formative things that happened to him 239 00:15:20,640 --> 00:15:23,440 Speaker 5: as a kid was watching a movie called The House 240 00:15:23,480 --> 00:15:26,400 Speaker 5: of Wax. And it was only when I watched it 241 00:15:26,440 --> 00:15:30,800 Speaker 5: that I realized how inappropriate this movie was for kids 242 00:15:30,840 --> 00:15:34,280 Speaker 5: to see. There is a guy who was taking live 243 00:15:34,360 --> 00:15:37,680 Speaker 5: people and covering them in wax for his museum. 244 00:15:38,320 --> 00:15:39,880 Speaker 13: You shouldn't have done that, my dear. 245 00:15:41,240 --> 00:15:42,080 Speaker 6: It is Kathy. 246 00:15:43,000 --> 00:15:44,800 Speaker 10: It's Kathy's body under the wax. 247 00:15:45,480 --> 00:15:46,000 Speaker 8: I knew it. 248 00:15:47,280 --> 00:15:51,760 Speaker 5: But one scene that I think was very memorable to 249 00:15:52,400 --> 00:15:56,000 Speaker 5: young Dennis was a dark haired woman's whose mother was 250 00:15:56,080 --> 00:16:01,760 Speaker 5: dark haired, being bound and she's naked. You don't see 251 00:16:01,800 --> 00:16:03,480 Speaker 5: all of her, but you definitely know she doesn't have 252 00:16:03,520 --> 00:16:07,960 Speaker 5: clothes on, and she's struggling as she's about to get 253 00:16:08,120 --> 00:16:12,520 Speaker 5: the hot wax dripped on her, killing her. And I'm 254 00:16:12,640 --> 00:16:17,240 Speaker 5: sure that he was just fixated on that image of 255 00:16:17,280 --> 00:16:22,400 Speaker 5: a dark haired woman struggling and bound, because that became 256 00:16:22,840 --> 00:16:25,840 Speaker 5: central to his sexual fantasies later on. 257 00:16:27,640 --> 00:16:32,720 Speaker 10: This was just the beginning of Raider's obsession with torture. 258 00:16:40,920 --> 00:16:45,680 Speaker 10: As a young boy, Dennis Raider's fascination with bondage took root. 259 00:16:46,240 --> 00:16:50,400 Speaker 10: As Catherine Ramsland says, he developed a love for garments. 260 00:16:51,680 --> 00:16:56,040 Speaker 5: He would cozy up to his grandmother and the silkiness 261 00:16:56,080 --> 00:16:59,640 Speaker 5: of her ribbons in her hair, and then sometimes he'd 262 00:17:00,160 --> 00:17:03,360 Speaker 5: through the drawers of his mother and grandmother and the 263 00:17:03,880 --> 00:17:07,879 Speaker 5: slips and the underwear. He just loved the silkiness of that, 264 00:17:08,000 --> 00:17:11,479 Speaker 5: so that became part of it. But nothing was quite 265 00:17:11,520 --> 00:17:16,000 Speaker 5: as forceful for him as bondage. He got in the 266 00:17:16,040 --> 00:17:20,760 Speaker 5: barn and tie ropes around his waist, and eventually, as 267 00:17:20,800 --> 00:17:24,399 Speaker 5: he matured, he would have orgasms when he did this 268 00:17:24,560 --> 00:17:29,240 Speaker 5: without touching himself. According to him, just that pressure around 269 00:17:29,240 --> 00:17:33,240 Speaker 5: his waist would be enough, and so bondage became a 270 00:17:33,400 --> 00:17:36,960 Speaker 5: huge deal for him. And as he merged that with 271 00:17:37,080 --> 00:17:40,760 Speaker 5: the image of the struggling bound of woman, that became 272 00:17:41,280 --> 00:17:47,480 Speaker 5: the central figure of his erotic fantasies. Then he discovered 273 00:17:47,880 --> 00:17:52,919 Speaker 5: when he was fourteen, he discovered true Detective magazines that 274 00:17:53,000 --> 00:17:55,800 Speaker 5: his father was reading and hiding in the car, and 275 00:17:56,400 --> 00:18:01,360 Speaker 5: one of them was about Harvey Glatman. And Harvey Glatman 276 00:18:01,520 --> 00:18:05,639 Speaker 5: was a serial killer from the fifties who would persuade women, 277 00:18:05,880 --> 00:18:09,840 Speaker 5: beautiful women to come and model for him. He'd pretend 278 00:18:09,840 --> 00:18:12,920 Speaker 5: to be a photographer and then he'd say, well, he's 279 00:18:12,960 --> 00:18:16,560 Speaker 5: taken photographs for these True Detective magazines and he needs 280 00:18:16,600 --> 00:18:19,080 Speaker 5: to bind them because you have to have the bound, 281 00:18:19,359 --> 00:18:22,840 Speaker 5: terrified woman. And they would let him, and then once 282 00:18:22,840 --> 00:18:25,159 Speaker 5: he had them bound, he would tell them he was 283 00:18:25,200 --> 00:18:27,840 Speaker 5: going to kill them and then get these photos of 284 00:18:27,920 --> 00:18:32,520 Speaker 5: the utterly terrified, bound, trapped female. And they did end 285 00:18:32,600 --> 00:18:36,480 Speaker 5: up on the covers of a True Detective magazine, and 286 00:18:36,720 --> 00:18:41,320 Speaker 5: Raider saw this image of a totally helpless woman, which 287 00:18:41,400 --> 00:18:45,800 Speaker 5: is similar to that image of his mother. This totally helpless, bound, 288 00:18:46,280 --> 00:18:52,000 Speaker 5: scantily clad female and sealed itself. So he's fourteen and 289 00:18:52,040 --> 00:18:55,080 Speaker 5: he's looking at this and going that is the image 290 00:18:55,320 --> 00:18:59,560 Speaker 5: that he would always want to try to replicate, bondage, 291 00:18:59,720 --> 00:19:04,080 Speaker 5: which was erotic to him as self. Bondage became part 292 00:19:04,200 --> 00:19:08,040 Speaker 5: of what had to be in all of his murders. 293 00:19:08,040 --> 00:19:11,800 Speaker 5: He had to have the bondage thing always. 294 00:19:13,280 --> 00:19:18,119 Speaker 10: Raider's daughter Carrie now even remembers her dad talking about 295 00:19:18,119 --> 00:19:19,720 Speaker 10: these detective magazines. 296 00:19:21,320 --> 00:19:25,360 Speaker 9: Now, I thought maybe those were inappropriate, but somebody told 297 00:19:25,400 --> 00:19:29,040 Speaker 9: me they were pretty normal in a drugstore, bondage photos 298 00:19:29,080 --> 00:19:33,120 Speaker 9: of women. So my dad was influenced by this. When 299 00:19:33,119 --> 00:19:35,040 Speaker 9: he was seven or eight years old, he's reading these 300 00:19:35,040 --> 00:19:36,000 Speaker 9: detective magazines. 301 00:19:36,040 --> 00:19:38,000 Speaker 6: He's influenced by these photos. 302 00:19:38,520 --> 00:19:40,840 Speaker 9: If you talk to my dad, it sounds like he 303 00:19:40,920 --> 00:19:43,600 Speaker 9: probably had what nowadays we call a conduct disorder when 304 00:19:43,640 --> 00:19:44,520 Speaker 9: he was a young boy. 305 00:19:45,040 --> 00:19:47,639 Speaker 6: There was no help. In the forties and fifties. 306 00:19:48,440 --> 00:19:53,960 Speaker 10: It only got worse. Raiders' fantasies became more and more elaborate. 307 00:19:55,240 --> 00:19:59,080 Speaker 5: He would imagine creating what he called girl traps where 308 00:19:59,240 --> 00:20:03,160 Speaker 5: they would be totally helpless. He would have complete control 309 00:20:03,200 --> 00:20:06,200 Speaker 5: and domination over them, and so that was a big 310 00:20:06,240 --> 00:20:09,000 Speaker 5: part of his fantasies. He would draw that on the 311 00:20:09,040 --> 00:20:13,919 Speaker 5: board in his classroom while other people are out at recess. 312 00:20:13,680 --> 00:20:19,000 Speaker 10: On the farm. Raider tested out his ideas on animals. 313 00:20:20,440 --> 00:20:24,959 Speaker 3: A very good precursor for crimes is animal cruelty. Animal 314 00:20:25,000 --> 00:20:28,399 Speaker 3: cruelty is a big, big one, and he got heavily 315 00:20:28,400 --> 00:20:32,600 Speaker 3: involved with that, killing cats, killing dogs. My name is 316 00:20:32,680 --> 00:20:36,000 Speaker 3: John Douglas. I was with the FBI for twenty five years. 317 00:20:36,640 --> 00:20:39,879 Speaker 3: Wrote a book about inside the Mind of the BTK Strangler. 318 00:20:40,359 --> 00:20:42,879 Speaker 3: I was one of the first people to analyze a 319 00:20:42,960 --> 00:20:45,159 Speaker 3: case and was pretty good analysis. 320 00:20:46,359 --> 00:20:49,600 Speaker 10: You've probably heard about John Douglas before. He is the 321 00:20:49,640 --> 00:20:53,879 Speaker 10: famed FBI profiler who helped kickstart the agency's study on 322 00:20:53,960 --> 00:20:57,800 Speaker 10: serial killers in the nineteen seventies. He was also the 323 00:20:57,840 --> 00:21:03,399 Speaker 10: inspiration for the Netflix series mind Hunter. Like Catherine Ramsland, 324 00:21:03,640 --> 00:21:07,760 Speaker 10: he dedicated years of his life to trying to understand BTK. 325 00:21:09,040 --> 00:21:09,200 Speaker 7: Now. 326 00:21:09,200 --> 00:21:11,879 Speaker 10: The best place to look, he says, is in early 327 00:21:12,000 --> 00:21:17,480 Speaker 10: childhood and pretty early on, Dennis Rader took interest in 328 00:21:17,560 --> 00:21:22,600 Speaker 10: some very troubling behavior. As he just mentioned, Raider took 329 00:21:22,720 --> 00:21:25,280 Speaker 10: joy in causing harm to animals. 330 00:21:26,520 --> 00:21:29,959 Speaker 3: He went on a family grouping where they had a 331 00:21:30,080 --> 00:21:33,159 Speaker 3: chicken to cook. They bound the chicken up and he 332 00:21:33,240 --> 00:21:35,800 Speaker 3: tied him to a post before they killed the chicken, 333 00:21:35,920 --> 00:21:40,920 Speaker 3: and he liked that. He got excited about that as well. 334 00:21:42,400 --> 00:21:46,760 Speaker 10: As Douglas says, this all came back to his bondage fetish. 335 00:21:46,800 --> 00:21:53,160 Speaker 10: He enjoyed being in control while something or someone was helpless. 336 00:21:53,960 --> 00:21:57,159 Speaker 3: He liked the appearance of bondage and where someone is 337 00:21:57,200 --> 00:21:59,880 Speaker 3: stuck someone's control, someone can't get away, The chicken can't 338 00:21:59,880 --> 00:22:00,440 Speaker 3: get get away. 339 00:22:02,480 --> 00:22:06,919 Speaker 10: Eventually, Raider became bored with the fantasies, the magazines, and 340 00:22:06,960 --> 00:22:11,200 Speaker 10: the chickens. As a young man, he escalated to finding 341 00:22:11,560 --> 00:22:16,840 Speaker 10: women and stalking them. At first, it started with just looking. 342 00:22:17,920 --> 00:22:20,600 Speaker 3: He was certainly at peeping Tom, and he was already 343 00:22:20,600 --> 00:22:25,439 Speaker 3: beginning to be fetishistic where he wanted underwear clothing that 344 00:22:25,480 --> 00:22:28,760 Speaker 3: he was steel offul lines in the neighborhood. And then 345 00:22:28,800 --> 00:22:32,040 Speaker 3: he was involved in peeping tom, looking through the windows, 346 00:22:32,080 --> 00:22:36,120 Speaker 3: looking at people being undressed. He would not enter until 347 00:22:36,400 --> 00:22:39,040 Speaker 3: he got older, but when he was younger he was 348 00:22:39,119 --> 00:22:43,840 Speaker 3: just looking and fantasizing about what he could do. As 349 00:22:43,840 --> 00:22:47,160 Speaker 3: he began to age, he then began entering the houses. 350 00:22:48,119 --> 00:22:51,359 Speaker 5: He thought of himself like a spy. He did do 351 00:22:51,560 --> 00:22:54,879 Speaker 5: some surveillance of people, some following women. 352 00:22:56,080 --> 00:23:00,000 Speaker 10: This is Catherine Ramsland again. She says that after high school, 353 00:23:00,280 --> 00:23:03,840 Speaker 10: Raider joined the Air Force in nineteen sixty six. He 354 00:23:03,880 --> 00:23:08,120 Speaker 10: did basic training in Texas before being stationed in Okinawa 355 00:23:08,359 --> 00:23:13,760 Speaker 10: and eventually Tokyo, and his experiences there only deepened his 356 00:23:13,920 --> 00:23:15,480 Speaker 10: fanatical tendencies. 357 00:23:16,760 --> 00:23:20,000 Speaker 5: He had sexual experiences when he was in the military 358 00:23:20,160 --> 00:23:26,040 Speaker 5: with sex workers that kind of sealed the fantasy, and 359 00:23:26,760 --> 00:23:30,479 Speaker 5: it was after he came back and had gotten married 360 00:23:31,040 --> 00:23:34,200 Speaker 5: that he began thinking about abducting women. 361 00:23:38,280 --> 00:23:41,000 Speaker 10: Raider left the Air Force in nineteen seventy and moved 362 00:23:41,000 --> 00:23:45,439 Speaker 10: back to Wichita. There he met Pauladetz, whom he married 363 00:23:45,480 --> 00:23:49,760 Speaker 10: in nineteen seventy one. But, as Catherine Ramsland said, his 364 00:23:49,960 --> 00:23:54,879 Speaker 10: marriage did not stop him from pursuing his fantasies of abduction. 365 00:23:55,760 --> 00:23:58,760 Speaker 10: He started to pick women in the neighborhood and think 366 00:23:58,800 --> 00:24:01,120 Speaker 10: about ways to snatch them. 367 00:24:02,440 --> 00:24:05,359 Speaker 5: He wanted to take them to an abandoned farm, so 368 00:24:05,440 --> 00:24:09,959 Speaker 5: he had scouted out farmsteads around Kansas, and he wanted 369 00:24:09,960 --> 00:24:11,840 Speaker 5: to abduct this bank teller. 370 00:24:13,160 --> 00:24:17,080 Speaker 10: Ramselin elaborates on this incident in her book Confession of 371 00:24:17,119 --> 00:24:21,440 Speaker 10: a Serial Killer. Here is what Raider told her. 372 00:24:22,119 --> 00:24:24,639 Speaker 13: I saw a bank teller at the Twin Lakes Bank. 373 00:24:25,600 --> 00:24:28,160 Speaker 13: I had seen her when Paula and I did business there. 374 00:24:28,880 --> 00:24:31,480 Speaker 13: I knew when she had a lunch hower. The bank 375 00:24:31,480 --> 00:24:34,800 Speaker 13: teller parked her car across the street of twenty first North. 376 00:24:35,640 --> 00:24:39,320 Speaker 13: Many cars there could shield me in hiding. I knew 377 00:24:39,359 --> 00:24:40,800 Speaker 13: her car. 378 00:24:41,400 --> 00:24:42,919 Speaker 5: He didn't know what he was going to do. He 379 00:24:42,960 --> 00:24:45,240 Speaker 5: hadn't planned very far, except that he was going to 380 00:24:45,280 --> 00:24:49,800 Speaker 5: take this young woman out to the abandoned barn, find her, 381 00:24:49,960 --> 00:24:50,840 Speaker 5: do something with her. 382 00:24:52,240 --> 00:24:56,119 Speaker 13: My main theme was to hang someone. The act of 383 00:24:56,240 --> 00:25:01,240 Speaker 13: hanging was sexually exciting to me. Of being bound or 384 00:25:01,560 --> 00:25:05,280 Speaker 13: straining with the rope or noose around the neck, legs bound, 385 00:25:05,440 --> 00:25:10,600 Speaker 13: and no escape. For self gratification, I had hanged myself 386 00:25:10,680 --> 00:25:13,760 Speaker 13: to the point of almost passing out. I had an 387 00:25:13,800 --> 00:25:18,280 Speaker 13: old barn in mind. We could be completely alone and 388 00:25:18,320 --> 00:25:22,600 Speaker 13: I could better control them. I loved old barnes, and 389 00:25:22,640 --> 00:25:25,520 Speaker 13: there were several located around Wichita that I could use 390 00:25:25,680 --> 00:25:27,600 Speaker 13: for hanging victims. 391 00:25:28,200 --> 00:25:30,359 Speaker 5: That was the first time he really acted on the 392 00:25:30,400 --> 00:25:36,560 Speaker 5: fantasy is I'm going to grab somebody. 393 00:25:35,080 --> 00:25:39,280 Speaker 13: Timed like a clock. She entered her car, I approached 394 00:25:39,400 --> 00:25:43,399 Speaker 13: and tried to force myself in. She screamed and fought back. 395 00:25:44,400 --> 00:25:47,840 Speaker 13: I finally gave up and told her I'm sorry. I 396 00:25:47,880 --> 00:25:50,000 Speaker 13: was trying to take a vehicle and leave the area. 397 00:25:50,920 --> 00:25:55,360 Speaker 13: It was a ruse that calmed her down. I told 398 00:25:55,400 --> 00:25:57,480 Speaker 13: her I was going to leave her alone, and I 399 00:25:57,560 --> 00:25:58,320 Speaker 13: quickly left. 400 00:26:00,000 --> 00:26:01,919 Speaker 5: But that was the start, and the fact that he 401 00:26:02,520 --> 00:26:13,520 Speaker 5: crossed that line was important. The second line he crossed 402 00:26:13,680 --> 00:26:17,440 Speaker 5: was breaking into houses. As he began to break into houses, 403 00:26:17,480 --> 00:26:20,560 Speaker 5: he felt very powerful people were not there, but he 404 00:26:20,600 --> 00:26:24,280 Speaker 5: would stand in their home, and he felt that sense 405 00:26:24,320 --> 00:26:29,440 Speaker 5: of violation. That gave him a lot of courage because 406 00:26:29,560 --> 00:26:32,520 Speaker 5: he realized he could get into their home, take something, 407 00:26:32,600 --> 00:26:36,040 Speaker 5: and get out and not be caught. That empowered him 408 00:26:36,160 --> 00:26:38,840 Speaker 5: with the sense that now he could do this, He 409 00:26:38,880 --> 00:26:41,960 Speaker 5: could get into a home and abduct somebody, which was 410 00:26:42,000 --> 00:26:42,840 Speaker 5: the first plan. 411 00:26:46,240 --> 00:26:50,400 Speaker 10: What follows is a sequence of events that eventually pushed 412 00:26:50,480 --> 00:26:55,639 Speaker 10: Raider into his first violent act. Not long after getting married, 413 00:26:56,000 --> 00:26:59,240 Speaker 10: Raider got a job at Cessna, the big aviation company 414 00:26:59,320 --> 00:27:04,080 Speaker 10: based in which Talk Kansas, Rader discussed this job. Here 415 00:27:04,119 --> 00:27:07,399 Speaker 10: are his words, again read by a voice actor. 416 00:27:08,960 --> 00:27:12,919 Speaker 13: Cessna had been my ideal job, working in the electrical 417 00:27:12,960 --> 00:27:15,920 Speaker 13: tool and died part of a plant. It was a 418 00:27:16,000 --> 00:27:19,480 Speaker 13: challenging job, but one that I was learning to love. 419 00:27:20,920 --> 00:27:24,040 Speaker 10: But Raider wasn't at Sessna for very long due to 420 00:27:24,119 --> 00:27:29,960 Speaker 10: rising gasoline prices. The aviation industry was in financial dress. 421 00:27:30,040 --> 00:27:33,400 Speaker 5: And he got laid off. That's the job that he loved. 422 00:27:34,040 --> 00:27:36,679 Speaker 5: What he will say is that's what triggered the first 423 00:27:36,880 --> 00:27:41,320 Speaker 5: murder is he was angry. He did not like the 424 00:27:41,320 --> 00:27:44,080 Speaker 5: fact that his wife was now the bread winner. He 425 00:27:44,160 --> 00:27:47,480 Speaker 5: felt powerless. So again he's in this situation where a 426 00:27:47,480 --> 00:27:48,840 Speaker 5: woman has power over him. 427 00:27:48,920 --> 00:27:49,760 Speaker 6: He isn't like this. 428 00:27:51,240 --> 00:27:56,520 Speaker 13: I had low frustration tolerance in stressful situations. If criticized, 429 00:27:56,840 --> 00:28:01,840 Speaker 13: especially if I'm right, I literally blowed. Don't count to ten, 430 00:28:02,280 --> 00:28:05,959 Speaker 13: I get hot, break into a sweat, and seek mental revenge. 431 00:28:06,800 --> 00:28:10,679 Speaker 13: I believe I'm too smart to go postal, so if 432 00:28:10,720 --> 00:28:13,640 Speaker 13: I made a revenge attack, it would be with stealth 433 00:28:13,960 --> 00:28:19,199 Speaker 13: and planned. Loss of personal power can cause burning resentment. 434 00:28:20,000 --> 00:28:24,159 Speaker 13: Frustration seems to be a key either the system or 435 00:28:24,200 --> 00:28:28,040 Speaker 13: a person not understanding me on the issues surrounding the problem. 436 00:28:28,680 --> 00:28:32,080 Speaker 13: I believe job loss causes a lot of anger and frustration. 437 00:28:33,160 --> 00:28:34,879 Speaker 13: Ego is the key. 438 00:28:36,600 --> 00:28:41,840 Speaker 10: Raider decided it was time, no more fantasies. This time 439 00:28:42,240 --> 00:28:45,680 Speaker 10: he was actually going to kill, and he found his 440 00:28:45,800 --> 00:28:51,600 Speaker 10: first victim or victims. The following excerpt comes from the 441 00:28:51,640 --> 00:28:56,520 Speaker 10: book bind Torture, Kill, The Inside story of BTK. 442 00:28:57,960 --> 00:29:00,360 Speaker 14: Dennis Raider had seen the woman and the girl day 443 00:29:00,520 --> 00:29:03,280 Speaker 14: while driving his wife to work at the Veterans Administration. 444 00:29:04,000 --> 00:29:07,640 Speaker 14: His wife didn't like driving in the snow. On Edgemore Drive, 445 00:29:07,800 --> 00:29:10,840 Speaker 14: he saw two dark skinned females and his station wagon 446 00:29:11,080 --> 00:29:15,080 Speaker 14: backing onto Murdock Avenue. After that, he stalked them for 447 00:29:15,200 --> 00:29:19,120 Speaker 14: weeks and took notes. He followed Julie several times as 448 00:29:19,120 --> 00:29:22,400 Speaker 14: she drove Josie and Joey to school. He knew that 449 00:29:22,440 --> 00:29:24,920 Speaker 14: they left about eight forty five and that it took 450 00:29:25,000 --> 00:29:28,080 Speaker 14: Julie seven minutes to get back home. He knew the 451 00:29:28,160 --> 00:29:31,080 Speaker 14: husband left for work around eight am. He did not 452 00:29:31,200 --> 00:29:33,600 Speaker 14: want to confront the husband, so he timed his own 453 00:29:33,720 --> 00:29:37,120 Speaker 14: arrival for about eight twenty. The husband would be gone, 454 00:29:38,000 --> 00:29:40,320 Speaker 14: the boy would be there, but he was incidental to 455 00:29:40,360 --> 00:29:43,320 Speaker 14: the plan. He would kill the boy, but he didn't 456 00:29:43,360 --> 00:29:45,480 Speaker 14: want him. He wanted the girl. 457 00:29:47,080 --> 00:29:51,720 Speaker 10: The girl was eleven year old Josie o'to. The mother 458 00:29:51,920 --> 00:29:55,000 Speaker 10: was thirty four year old Julia Otero. It was on 459 00:29:55,160 --> 00:29:59,440 Speaker 10: January fifteenth, nineteen seventy four, that Dennis Raider took his 460 00:29:59,480 --> 00:30:03,880 Speaker 10: first visvictims. As you heard in episode one, he broke in, 461 00:30:04,400 --> 00:30:08,680 Speaker 10: tied up the family, and one by one he strangled 462 00:30:08,760 --> 00:30:13,520 Speaker 10: all of them. There was no going back. Denis Raider's 463 00:30:13,600 --> 00:30:25,880 Speaker 10: transformation into BTK was complete. After Dennis Rader escaped the 464 00:30:25,880 --> 00:30:29,480 Speaker 10: Otero crime scene, he slipped back into life at home. 465 00:30:29,960 --> 00:30:33,240 Speaker 10: He disguised himself as a regular family man in Wichita 466 00:30:33,280 --> 00:30:36,560 Speaker 10: once again. Raider and his wife Paula had been married 467 00:30:36,600 --> 00:30:40,600 Speaker 10: nearly three years. By this time. They attended church weekly 468 00:30:40,720 --> 00:30:43,440 Speaker 10: with their parents, and he helped out with the youth group, 469 00:30:44,080 --> 00:30:47,200 Speaker 10: and he decided to take classes at Wichita State nearby. 470 00:30:48,240 --> 00:30:51,920 Speaker 10: But in his time alone, he allowed himself to explore 471 00:30:52,000 --> 00:30:55,960 Speaker 10: his fantasies. The following is an excerpt from the book 472 00:30:56,480 --> 00:31:00,120 Speaker 10: Buying Torture Kill, The Inside Story of bt. 473 00:31:01,960 --> 00:31:06,000 Speaker 14: He liked to study crime novels, detective magazines, and pornography. 474 00:31:06,720 --> 00:31:10,080 Speaker 14: He liked to masturbate while playing with handcuffs. In their 475 00:31:10,120 --> 00:31:13,360 Speaker 14: snug home only nine hundred and sixty square feet, he 476 00:31:13,440 --> 00:31:16,680 Speaker 14: hid small trophies on his wrist. He wore Joe o 477 00:31:16,800 --> 00:31:19,840 Speaker 14: Taro's watch. It ran well and got him to school 478 00:31:19,840 --> 00:31:24,360 Speaker 14: on time. Wichita State University had started spring classes, and 479 00:31:24,400 --> 00:31:28,240 Speaker 14: he had chosen a major administration of justice that let 480 00:31:28,320 --> 00:31:31,360 Speaker 14: him study police officers closely and learn more about his 481 00:31:31,400 --> 00:31:36,040 Speaker 14: new pursuit. He enjoyed the irony. 482 00:31:35,440 --> 00:31:39,360 Speaker 10: The events of January fifteenth, nineteen seventy four, where the 483 00:31:39,480 --> 00:31:46,920 Speaker 10: violent culmination of years spent fantasizing about bondage, torture, and murder. 484 00:31:47,760 --> 00:31:52,000 Speaker 10: Raider had mentally built himself into the murder he'd envision. 485 00:31:52,800 --> 00:31:56,800 Speaker 10: The Otero family was his first taste of success. 486 00:31:58,400 --> 00:32:01,520 Speaker 9: What really pisses me off about my dad is that 487 00:32:01,560 --> 00:32:03,640 Speaker 9: he knew what he was or what he was capable of. 488 00:32:04,160 --> 00:32:06,960 Speaker 9: He even talks about that in Catherine Ramson's book, that 489 00:32:07,000 --> 00:32:09,400 Speaker 9: he could have walked into a mental health institution before 490 00:32:09,400 --> 00:32:13,040 Speaker 9: he murdered the Otaros and asked for help. And he 491 00:32:13,160 --> 00:32:15,600 Speaker 9: knew that, and he didn't do it anyway, because he 492 00:32:15,760 --> 00:32:19,000 Speaker 9: just wanted that thrill and that hit, and those are 493 00:32:19,000 --> 00:32:20,320 Speaker 9: words he uses, thrill and. 494 00:32:20,320 --> 00:32:26,640 Speaker 10: Hit again Carrie Rawson. She mentions that how each opportunity 495 00:32:26,880 --> 00:32:30,640 Speaker 10: during the Otaro murders, her father chose to cross the 496 00:32:30,680 --> 00:32:32,400 Speaker 10: point of no return. 497 00:32:34,040 --> 00:32:37,000 Speaker 9: I mean, everybody has those dark thoughts or the what ifs, 498 00:32:37,280 --> 00:32:41,360 Speaker 9: But I mean there's a big gap between reading something 499 00:32:41,520 --> 00:32:45,360 Speaker 9: or watching something on TV or thinking something versus when 500 00:32:45,400 --> 00:32:48,600 Speaker 9: you're premeditating and planning these things. If you're in the 501 00:32:48,640 --> 00:32:53,240 Speaker 9: store buying rope, that's when you need to stop. That point, 502 00:32:53,280 --> 00:32:55,160 Speaker 9: you probably don't have the ability to stop yourself, and 503 00:32:55,160 --> 00:32:58,320 Speaker 9: you're probably not wanting to. Now he had a choice. 504 00:32:58,760 --> 00:33:01,280 Speaker 9: This is where I get really pitied. He comes in, 505 00:33:01,400 --> 00:33:03,480 Speaker 9: he doesn't have a mask on, and he blames them. 506 00:33:03,920 --> 00:33:05,600 Speaker 9: He says, well, they saw my face, so I had 507 00:33:05,640 --> 00:33:08,080 Speaker 9: to put them down. He's literally talking like when he's 508 00:33:08,120 --> 00:33:09,760 Speaker 9: a compliance officer putting an animal down. 509 00:33:09,760 --> 00:33:11,360 Speaker 6: Those are his words. I had to put them down 510 00:33:11,760 --> 00:33:14,520 Speaker 6: because they saw my face. No, you didn't. You could 511 00:33:14,520 --> 00:33:14,920 Speaker 6: have left. 512 00:33:15,880 --> 00:33:18,760 Speaker 9: That's where you're not insane. You're in control. You're in 513 00:33:18,880 --> 00:33:22,600 Speaker 9: enough control to murder for people and not get caught 514 00:33:22,600 --> 00:33:23,479 Speaker 9: for thirty years. 515 00:33:24,160 --> 00:33:25,240 Speaker 6: You totally could have left. 516 00:33:25,960 --> 00:33:29,360 Speaker 9: But he's such a freaking narcissist. He puts it on them. 517 00:33:30,280 --> 00:33:34,000 Speaker 10: Nothing about the Otero murders had gone his plan, But 518 00:33:34,120 --> 00:33:37,760 Speaker 10: as a testament to his delusion, Dennis Rader didn't believe 519 00:33:37,760 --> 00:33:42,440 Speaker 10: that it was his fault. Here's forensic psychologist Catherine Ramsland. 520 00:33:43,720 --> 00:33:46,640 Speaker 5: He thought he had left nothing to chance. That was 521 00:33:46,680 --> 00:33:49,800 Speaker 5: in his head that he had stopped her and knew 522 00:33:49,800 --> 00:33:52,480 Speaker 5: everything about the house. He had done a terrible job. 523 00:33:52,520 --> 00:33:54,600 Speaker 5: They had a dog too that he didn't know about, 524 00:33:55,440 --> 00:33:58,040 Speaker 5: and also their car had no gas in it, so 525 00:33:58,120 --> 00:34:01,160 Speaker 5: he's going to abduct them in their car and that 526 00:34:01,160 --> 00:34:04,080 Speaker 5: wouldn't have worked out either. So none of the things 527 00:34:04,120 --> 00:34:08,960 Speaker 5: he had in mind for his first act actually happened 528 00:34:09,000 --> 00:34:14,279 Speaker 5: the way he had imagined it, and he was terrified 529 00:34:14,880 --> 00:34:17,960 Speaker 5: that he was going to be caught. He dropped his 530 00:34:18,000 --> 00:34:20,600 Speaker 5: knife sheet out in the yard, had to go back 531 00:34:20,640 --> 00:34:23,759 Speaker 5: for it. It's the middle of the day, neighbors could 532 00:34:23,800 --> 00:34:26,840 Speaker 5: have seen it. It's a house in a neighborhood. Many 533 00:34:26,920 --> 00:34:30,520 Speaker 5: mistakes made, but still he did not get caught. So 534 00:34:30,600 --> 00:34:34,800 Speaker 5: that empowered him to think that, wow, I can kill 535 00:34:35,120 --> 00:34:38,200 Speaker 5: almost an entire family and nobody came for me. 536 00:34:39,600 --> 00:34:42,880 Speaker 10: The Otero murders would only be the beginning of raiders 537 00:34:43,160 --> 00:34:48,880 Speaker 10: murderous career. Despite all the mistakes he made, he felt unstoppable. 538 00:34:49,680 --> 00:34:52,480 Speaker 10: In confession of a serial killer, he had this to 539 00:34:52,520 --> 00:34:55,920 Speaker 10: say about his first killing spree. 540 00:34:57,239 --> 00:35:01,360 Speaker 13: My green was on fire, cut out and collected the 541 00:35:01,400 --> 00:35:04,880 Speaker 13: newspaper clippings on the oteros and started my first Heidi 542 00:35:04,920 --> 00:35:08,840 Speaker 13: hole file using those college colored folders for turn papers 543 00:35:08,880 --> 00:35:12,640 Speaker 13: with three holes, I had cut and taped the clippings inside. 544 00:35:13,440 --> 00:35:15,920 Speaker 13: I stored this in the attached shed in the back, 545 00:35:16,200 --> 00:35:19,400 Speaker 13: an area that my wife would not find. I also 546 00:35:19,520 --> 00:35:22,640 Speaker 13: listened and watched for any information on the radio or TV. 547 00:35:23,719 --> 00:35:27,719 Speaker 13: One thing for sure, that area was now off limits forever, 548 00:35:28,719 --> 00:35:30,640 Speaker 13: except for maybe just to drive by. 549 00:35:32,239 --> 00:35:35,799 Speaker 10: After the Otaro murders, Raider recognized he had crossed over 550 00:35:35,880 --> 00:35:40,240 Speaker 10: to what he called the dark path. He considered chalking 551 00:35:40,239 --> 00:35:42,200 Speaker 10: it up to a bad day and moving on with 552 00:35:42,280 --> 00:35:47,560 Speaker 10: his life, but his killer instincts overrode that sense. He 553 00:35:47,640 --> 00:35:53,120 Speaker 10: now saw himself as a serial killer, and he liked it. 554 00:35:54,600 --> 00:35:57,680 Speaker 13: I thought I could control it. I soon realized I 555 00:35:57,719 --> 00:36:00,000 Speaker 13: was in over my head, and I was too embarrassed 556 00:36:00,280 --> 00:36:04,239 Speaker 13: to ask for help. I quickly was into sexual fantasies 557 00:36:04,440 --> 00:36:08,080 Speaker 13: beyond my control. I had set my goals to be 558 00:36:08,120 --> 00:36:11,879 Speaker 13: a white hat high, but the lifeboat drifted away from 559 00:36:11,880 --> 00:36:16,319 Speaker 13: my reach until the deep water became my coping. I 560 00:36:16,400 --> 00:36:20,080 Speaker 13: had trusted myself to steer the right course, but when 561 00:36:20,080 --> 00:36:24,160 Speaker 13: I studied books about past serial killers. The more I learned, 562 00:36:24,800 --> 00:36:29,160 Speaker 13: the closer I came to believe I could someday become one. 563 00:36:29,360 --> 00:36:32,600 Speaker 13: I was on a powerful train and could not get off. 564 00:36:33,480 --> 00:36:37,560 Speaker 13: The track was set. Superman could stop it, but I 565 00:36:37,680 --> 00:36:40,880 Speaker 13: was not Superman. To cope with what I was doing, 566 00:36:41,480 --> 00:36:43,839 Speaker 13: I cubed like I would do as a kid. 567 00:36:46,600 --> 00:36:50,800 Speaker 10: Cubing is a concept Raider came up with. It's similar 568 00:36:50,880 --> 00:36:54,800 Speaker 10: to compartmentalization. Here's Catherine Ramsland again. 569 00:36:56,320 --> 00:37:00,600 Speaker 5: He is all the different bases of the cube. Family man, 570 00:37:00,800 --> 00:37:05,279 Speaker 5: church leader, thief, boy, scout, volunteer, all of that kind 571 00:37:05,320 --> 00:37:09,160 Speaker 5: of stuff. But each face doesn't see any of the others. 572 00:37:09,880 --> 00:37:13,560 Speaker 5: So when he's a family man, he's a family man 573 00:37:13,920 --> 00:37:17,960 Speaker 5: in his mind because it's only a present moment truth. 574 00:37:18,880 --> 00:37:21,560 Speaker 5: When he sees the opportunity to be a thief or 575 00:37:21,600 --> 00:37:25,320 Speaker 5: a killer or a liar, he can turn that face out, 576 00:37:25,960 --> 00:37:30,360 Speaker 5: so it's all integrated as a whole, but none of 577 00:37:30,400 --> 00:37:31,759 Speaker 5: the faces see each other. 578 00:37:32,360 --> 00:37:34,120 Speaker 6: And he came up with that concept. 579 00:37:34,520 --> 00:37:39,279 Speaker 5: Psychologists call this compartmentalizing, but that conveys the idea that 580 00:37:39,600 --> 00:37:42,919 Speaker 5: they're all distinct compartments. When you think of it as 581 00:37:42,960 --> 00:37:48,319 Speaker 5: a cube, a unified entity with multiple faces. That can 582 00:37:48,360 --> 00:37:52,719 Speaker 5: be switched around to meet the circumstances. That's a much 583 00:37:52,760 --> 00:37:57,480 Speaker 5: more powerful concept, and that's his concept. He had ways 584 00:37:57,520 --> 00:38:00,160 Speaker 5: to keep it all hidden, but he didn't think but 585 00:38:00,200 --> 00:38:04,880 Speaker 5: as pretending. It was. That's what I do then, But 586 00:38:05,000 --> 00:38:09,400 Speaker 5: I also have social obligations. I also am a good dad. 587 00:38:10,000 --> 00:38:15,200 Speaker 5: I'm also a good churchgoer. I'm also a good employee. 588 00:38:15,719 --> 00:38:18,320 Speaker 5: All of those things worked for him, and I think 589 00:38:18,600 --> 00:38:24,520 Speaker 5: it's difficult for people to look at such strongly contrasting 590 00:38:25,080 --> 00:38:29,480 Speaker 5: morality in the same person. That's the mystery. How does 591 00:38:29,520 --> 00:38:33,120 Speaker 5: that happen? But it does happen. It happens then for 592 00:38:33,280 --> 00:38:38,040 Speaker 5: anyone who's having an affair. It happens with con artists, 593 00:38:38,360 --> 00:38:40,560 Speaker 5: it happens with a lot of different people who live 594 00:38:40,880 --> 00:38:43,680 Speaker 5: double lives of some kind. I don't think they think 595 00:38:43,719 --> 00:38:46,440 Speaker 5: about it as pretending. I think they just think they 596 00:38:46,480 --> 00:38:52,000 Speaker 5: have developed alternate life frames, and those alternate life frames 597 00:38:52,160 --> 00:38:57,359 Speaker 5: are in motion when they're in specific situations. Raider could 598 00:38:57,400 --> 00:39:01,319 Speaker 5: have been out driving around with his and he spots 599 00:39:01,480 --> 00:39:04,600 Speaker 5: a young woman and decides he's going to come back 600 00:39:04,640 --> 00:39:06,400 Speaker 5: to that neighborhood to see if he can figure out 601 00:39:06,480 --> 00:39:07,720 Speaker 5: where she lives. 602 00:39:09,080 --> 00:39:13,560 Speaker 10: That's exactly what Rader did next. In the weeks following 603 00:39:13,560 --> 00:39:17,000 Speaker 10: the Otero murders, he decided he wanted to kill again 604 00:39:17,760 --> 00:39:21,160 Speaker 10: and soon. Here are his words from Confession of a 605 00:39:21,200 --> 00:39:24,120 Speaker 10: serial Killer, again read by a voice actor. 606 00:39:25,760 --> 00:39:29,760 Speaker 13: I believe that by February or March the hunt begin again. 607 00:39:30,760 --> 00:39:33,719 Speaker 13: I found it exciting to prowl at day or night. 608 00:39:34,480 --> 00:39:36,520 Speaker 13: He was very easy for me to spend a little 609 00:39:36,560 --> 00:39:40,400 Speaker 13: time after classes to prowl or day drive that area. 610 00:39:41,440 --> 00:39:43,680 Speaker 13: Going to class worked well for me as a cover. 611 00:39:44,480 --> 00:39:46,600 Speaker 13: I could say I was at the library or use 612 00:39:46,680 --> 00:39:49,000 Speaker 13: that time to prowl or stalk. 613 00:39:50,719 --> 00:39:56,400 Speaker 10: Rader was becoming restless. He started to pick out new projects. 614 00:39:57,239 --> 00:40:01,560 Speaker 10: Projects are what he called the women he would Each 615 00:40:01,600 --> 00:40:06,600 Speaker 10: of his projects following the Otaros were younger women spotted 616 00:40:06,680 --> 00:40:11,000 Speaker 10: alone in the wild. Some of them had a family, 617 00:40:11,560 --> 00:40:15,360 Speaker 10: but Raider had already proven he wasn't averse to taking 618 00:40:15,400 --> 00:40:20,439 Speaker 10: the lives of children. Raider zeroed in on a young 619 00:40:20,480 --> 00:40:24,279 Speaker 10: woman named Catherine Bright. She was a fellow student at 620 00:40:24,280 --> 00:40:25,160 Speaker 10: Wichita State. 621 00:40:26,840 --> 00:40:29,920 Speaker 13: So it was one day after classes or in between. 622 00:40:30,600 --> 00:40:34,160 Speaker 13: I spotted Bright arriving home with a friend, another female, 623 00:40:34,360 --> 00:40:38,759 Speaker 13: maybe a sister. She was at her mailbox. She fit 624 00:40:38,840 --> 00:40:44,719 Speaker 13: my fantasy profile a co ed dishwasher, blonde small. I 625 00:40:44,760 --> 00:40:48,600 Speaker 13: saw her go into the house, and I thought, that's 626 00:40:48,640 --> 00:40:53,280 Speaker 13: a possibility. My heart raced as the hit came into focus. 627 00:40:54,200 --> 00:40:57,960 Speaker 13: From that moment on, I locked in on that house. 628 00:41:05,920 --> 00:41:09,440 Speaker 10: Next time on Monster BTK, he. 629 00:41:09,560 --> 00:41:12,120 Speaker 6: Was constantly trying to trip the police up. 630 00:41:12,560 --> 00:41:14,480 Speaker 13: I was planning on tying her up on the bed, 631 00:41:14,760 --> 00:41:16,640 Speaker 13: either half naked or totally. 632 00:41:17,200 --> 00:41:20,200 Speaker 4: This crime goes to hell in a handbasket pretty quickly. 633 00:41:20,320 --> 00:41:24,160 Speaker 4: He loses control of the situation. We had arrested a 634 00:41:24,160 --> 00:41:27,520 Speaker 4: couple of brothers who admitted that they had killed the oteos. 635 00:41:28,120 --> 00:41:31,000 Speaker 13: If I was doing the Otero's, this is how I 636 00:41:31,000 --> 00:41:31,759 Speaker 13: would have done it. 637 00:41:32,280 --> 00:41:35,800 Speaker 5: He considered himself to be among the elite serial killers, 638 00:41:36,080 --> 00:41:39,239 Speaker 5: and so he named himself BTK. 639 00:41:40,000 --> 00:41:44,920 Speaker 8: He enjoyed communicating with KKTV. KKTV was his favorite station. 640 00:41:45,120 --> 00:41:47,040 Speaker 8: He had watched it since he was a child. 641 00:41:47,719 --> 00:41:49,960 Speaker 13: I'd write this letter to you for the sake of 642 00:41:50,000 --> 00:41:52,800 Speaker 13: the taxpayer as well as your time. 643 00:41:59,400 --> 00:42:04,480 Speaker 2: Monster BTK is a production of Tenderfoot TV and iHeart Podcasts. 644 00:42:05,160 --> 00:42:08,680 Speaker 2: The show is written by Nomes Griffin, Trevor Young, and 645 00:42:08,800 --> 00:42:14,319 Speaker 2: Jesse Funk. Our host is Susan Peters. Executive producers on 646 00:42:14,400 --> 00:42:18,520 Speaker 2: behalf of Tenderfoot TV include Donald Albright and Payne Lindsay 647 00:42:18,960 --> 00:42:24,120 Speaker 2: alongside supervising producer Tracy Kaplan. Executive producers on behalf of 648 00:42:24,160 --> 00:42:29,719 Speaker 2: iHeart Podcasts include Matt Frederick and Trevor Young, alongside producers 649 00:42:29,760 --> 00:42:36,080 Speaker 2: Nomes Griffin and Jesse Funk and supervising Producerrima Ilkali. Marketing 650 00:42:36,120 --> 00:42:40,120 Speaker 2: support by David Wasserman and Alison Wright at iHeart Podcasts 651 00:42:40,719 --> 00:42:47,160 Speaker 2: and Caroline Origemma at tenderfoot TV. Auditional research by Claudia Daffrico. 652 00:42:47,640 --> 00:42:52,399 Speaker 2: Original artwork by Kevin Mister soul Harp, original music by 653 00:42:52,400 --> 00:42:56,480 Speaker 2: Makeup and Vanity Set. Special thanks to Orrin Rosenbaum and 654 00:42:56,520 --> 00:43:00,879 Speaker 2: the team at UTA and the Nord Group. Podcasts from 655 00:43:00,920 --> 00:43:06,239 Speaker 2: iHeartRadio and Tenderfoot TV visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, 656 00:43:06,719 --> 00:43:10,520 Speaker 2: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Thanks for listening.