WEBVTT - Questlove Supreme: David Murray 0:00:00.160 --> 0:00:31.400 Quest Love Supreme is a production of iHeartRadio, Ladies and gentlemen, 0:00:34.640 --> 0:00:39.040 you are listening to the world's most dangerous creative. 0:00:40.200 --> 0:00:44.080 Our yesterday is a legendary creative in the vein of 0:00:44.120 --> 0:00:48.880 such giants as Archie Shepp. In order that Coleman and 0:00:49.080 --> 0:00:53.120 Albert Island has pushed the envelope of what music and 0:00:53.280 --> 0:00:55.480 what modal jazz is. 0:00:56.720 --> 0:00:59.880 It's pretty much carrying the culture on his back right now. 0:01:00.600 --> 0:01:05.080 Having made over two hundred albums and recorded collaborated with 0:01:05.120 --> 0:01:09.440 the likes of Max Roach, Coz mahal A, Mary Boraka, 0:01:09.760 --> 0:01:15.319 The Grateful Dad, Saw Williams, The Roots, Gregor Reporter, the 0:01:15.360 --> 0:01:20.520 Plumb Projects. He leads the world Saxophone quartet for over 0:01:20.640 --> 0:01:24.600 forty years. Pretty much He's going to realign the Brave 0:01:24.640 --> 0:01:28.640 New World Trio and come May of this year, his 0:01:28.720 --> 0:01:33.920 new project Francesca will be available for mask consumption for 0:01:34.000 --> 0:01:37.199 us to listen to. Please welcome to the show, David Murray, 0:01:37.600 --> 0:01:38.480 what's my Supreme? 0:01:38.840 --> 0:01:39.160 Thank you? 0:01:42.040 --> 0:01:44.400 So I have to say, and you know I've said 0:01:44.400 --> 0:01:48.320 this to you before. Your biggest champion is no longer 0:01:48.560 --> 0:01:50.960 on this plane with us, But you know I came 0:01:51.000 --> 0:01:54.200 to know you because of my manager Richard Nichols, who 0:01:54.720 --> 0:01:59.600 before I even met Richard Nichols, Rich was like the 0:01:59.640 --> 0:02:01.720 guy that that you listened to on like the free 0:02:01.800 --> 0:02:07.680 jazz station in Philadelphia Radio, and he would constantly play 0:02:08.440 --> 0:02:11.359 levels of spiritual and free jazz that I never heard 0:02:11.440 --> 0:02:15.840 of before. And he would play your records. And even 0:02:15.880 --> 0:02:16.520 though Rich was. 0:02:16.480 --> 0:02:19.639 Talkative, like I rarely heard Rich. 0:02:20.280 --> 0:02:24.639 Talk passionately about things, well only because I meant Rich 0:02:24.760 --> 0:02:26.919 was passionate, but he was also. 0:02:28.120 --> 0:02:29.799 Like to know, Rich is very extreme. 0:02:30.760 --> 0:02:33.720 But he was part of that crew, you know, the 0:02:33.760 --> 0:02:38.080 empty fox hole in Philly Temple University w r T I. 0:02:38.160 --> 0:02:41.720 He was part of that whole crew that that accepted 0:02:41.800 --> 0:02:44.160 us with open arms. During that time. I mean I 0:02:44.240 --> 0:02:47.560 was playing, I was playing with Sonny Murray and Trey's 0:02:47.639 --> 0:02:50.639 Lounge and hanging out in Philly, you know, doing those 0:02:50.720 --> 0:02:54.240 kind of gigs. I had some very early days in 0:02:54.280 --> 0:02:59.560 Philly because I came out from California and people like 0:02:59.760 --> 0:03:02.360 Rich you know, they kind of helped me settle and 0:03:02.440 --> 0:03:04.919 Philly was almost like a second home for me because 0:03:04.960 --> 0:03:06.600 I couldn't go home, you know, because I was three 0:03:06.680 --> 0:03:09.880 thousand miles away. And I noticed that a lot of 0:03:09.919 --> 0:03:12.800 cats in New York, they go to Philly and because 0:03:12.840 --> 0:03:16.560 they felt warm because a WRTI family, Richie and all 0:03:16.639 --> 0:03:19.799 the people there love Wig fam Trick. Even that was 0:03:19.880 --> 0:03:22.440 after he was after but people like that. 0:03:23.200 --> 0:03:26.519 So I'll say, like a month after I met rich 0:03:26.880 --> 0:03:30.880 we had our first music arguments, and by music really 0:03:30.919 --> 0:03:32.200 mainly jazz arguments. 0:03:33.080 --> 0:03:36.240 And you know, the thing was, I was going to school. 0:03:36.040 --> 0:03:38.280 At a time with a bunch of young lions like 0:03:38.880 --> 0:03:43.360 Christian McBride, Joey dem Francesco, Kurt Rosewinkle like all these 0:03:43.400 --> 0:03:47.720 cats who are like now today the establishment, and like 0:03:47.760 --> 0:03:51.240 in order to get those guys respecting high school, there's 0:03:51.280 --> 0:03:53.840 a certain language you had to speak. And of course 0:03:54.520 --> 0:03:58.480 because those guys were younger, they kind of went to 0:03:58.600 --> 0:04:04.840 the route of where Winton was leading jazz and the 0:04:04.920 --> 0:04:08.240 way that rich would just come down hard on like 0:04:08.320 --> 0:04:12.200 no man, like I know you think, and he had 0:04:12.200 --> 0:04:14.360 to put it in ways that I can understand, which 0:04:14.960 --> 0:04:17.960 you know, the time he was like, basically this that 0:04:18.000 --> 0:04:21.440 you're listening to is would basically be like what bad 0:04:21.480 --> 0:04:25.760 Boy is, like how people think, you know, there's there's 0:04:25.839 --> 0:04:28.960 there's a sective people that believe that that's not the 0:04:29.080 --> 0:04:32.240 true real hip hop yeah, real hip hop, and you 0:04:32.279 --> 0:04:33.720 know some people that wouldn't know better. 0:04:33.720 --> 0:04:36.160 It's just like, hey, that's hip hop. 0:04:36.680 --> 0:04:38.680 And I was like, well, give me an example of 0:04:38.680 --> 0:04:41.039 what you think it is, and pretty much like he 0:04:41.240 --> 0:04:44.400 just it was important to him that he sort of 0:04:44.400 --> 0:04:50.080 reprograms me to understand your level of artistry. And once 0:04:50.120 --> 0:04:52.560 I fell inside that rabbit hole, I couldn't get out of. 0:04:52.640 --> 0:04:59.440 And it was always richest sort of opinion that because 0:04:59.520 --> 0:05:04.559 of what he saw as the one step forward thirty 0:05:04.600 --> 0:05:08.320 steps backwards progression of where jazz was, was like, Okay, 0:05:08.600 --> 0:05:11.240 we only want to hear this forties bird level of 0:05:11.279 --> 0:05:14.080 bop and really not move forward like he felt that 0:05:14.279 --> 0:05:18.279 you and also the M base movement Steve Coleman, Greg Osby, 0:05:18.360 --> 0:05:22.680 like people really pushing the envelope should have been way 0:05:22.920 --> 0:05:28.680 way like he's like he's a modern Coltrane, Like he's 0:05:28.960 --> 0:05:30.760 a living, walking god amongst us. 0:05:31.000 --> 0:05:33.440 Do you ever tire of that kind of. 0:05:34.279 --> 0:05:37.480 Fan worship from jazz enthusiasts, because even when looking up 0:05:37.480 --> 0:05:41.400 your press, like the Village Voice gave you Artists of 0:05:41.440 --> 0:05:45.720 the Decade in NB eighties, you know. 0:05:46.760 --> 0:05:49.039 Well that's because you know Stanley was talking to Stanley 0:05:49.040 --> 0:05:52.239 Crouch he talked a lot and Gary and Gary getting 0:05:52.360 --> 0:05:56.159 listened to a lot what he said. Stanley wouldn't stop talking, 0:05:56.240 --> 0:05:56.440 you know. 0:05:57.400 --> 0:05:59.880 So I know that Stanley Crouch was her. 0:05:59.839 --> 0:06:03.719 Me was the sixth best drummer in New York. And 0:06:03.800 --> 0:06:07.000 everybody knows that that wasn't true, right, right, So you 0:06:07.040 --> 0:06:08.919 know he said, he said a lot of things, you know, 0:06:09.480 --> 0:06:12.240 and uh when him him and went and hooked up, 0:06:12.400 --> 0:06:16.440 and uh, that was a kind of a stormy situation. 0:06:16.640 --> 0:06:19.000 I'd say they became some kind of jazz police or 0:06:19.000 --> 0:06:19.560 something like that. 0:06:19.680 --> 0:06:20.680 Right. So that's the thing. 0:06:20.800 --> 0:06:24.040 How do you what put him in that position where 0:06:24.120 --> 0:06:27.320 he was that authority figure? Was it Robert christa gal 0:06:27.440 --> 0:06:29.599 giving him that much leeway at the Village Voice? 0:06:30.040 --> 0:06:32.359 Well, he was my English teacher in college, you know, 0:06:32.520 --> 0:06:36.479 Pomona College, California. I mean he had he had he 0:06:36.520 --> 0:06:42.120 had probably one of the most popular courses on Herman Mailville. 0:06:42.760 --> 0:06:46.440 Uh there, her Herman Mailville, the guy who wrote Moby Dick. 0:06:46.480 --> 0:06:46.640 Ok. 0:06:47.120 --> 0:06:50.160 Yeah, and uh yeah, so he's a writer, you know. 0:06:50.320 --> 0:06:53.600 So uh and he was the kind of guy that would, 0:06:53.720 --> 0:06:56.320 uh he gave me a card one time that had 0:06:56.320 --> 0:06:59.719 his his his fingers in a boxing glove on type 0:06:59.720 --> 0:07:02.720 bye and that was his business card, you know, so 0:07:02.800 --> 0:07:05.800 like him and Ishael Reid called me up one time 0:07:05.839 --> 0:07:08.720 and said, hey man, your boy Stanley's going for the championship. 0:07:12.640 --> 0:07:15.320 So you know, Richie knew all he knew about all 0:07:15.440 --> 0:07:18.280 that Richie knew. But Richie was also fighting against that 0:07:18.360 --> 0:07:20.800 because you know a lot of Richie could see through 0:07:21.000 --> 0:07:22.080 all that bullshit. 0:07:22.680 --> 0:07:25.960 Was he that volatile though, because I've heard stories of 0:07:26.560 --> 0:07:29.200 you know, before he passed, Great Tate told me a 0:07:29.240 --> 0:07:32.440 story of like Stanley will be in the Village Voice, 0:07:32.480 --> 0:07:36.360 like having arguments of music with writers and then it 0:07:36.400 --> 0:07:38.000 goes to pugilism levels. 0:07:38.280 --> 0:07:41.520 Oh yeah, well you know, tell you I like him too. 0:07:41.600 --> 0:07:43.840 But I remember he wrote an article about me trying 0:07:43.840 --> 0:07:46.400 to get trying to find his place too. He wrote 0:07:46.440 --> 0:07:49.040 an article about me in the Village Voice called David 0:07:49.120 --> 0:07:52.760 Murray half stepping what really? Yeah? And when I seen him, 0:07:52.800 --> 0:07:53.800 I talked to him about it. 0:07:53.840 --> 0:07:57.000 You know, I want to I want to approach it. 0:07:58.440 --> 0:08:01.520 To a lot of people. I talked to Winton too, 0:08:01.560 --> 0:08:03.880 I mean I talked to you know. I wasn't scared. 0:08:03.960 --> 0:08:05.200 I was going to say, have you ever had a 0:08:05.200 --> 0:08:06.160 conversation with me? 0:08:06.200 --> 0:08:09.400 And Winton? Had dinner not so long ago. It was wonderful. Look, 0:08:09.720 --> 0:08:14.480 we buried the hatchet, whatever hatchet there was, we buried 0:08:14.480 --> 0:08:17.160 it and come to tell you the truth. And I mean, 0:08:17.400 --> 0:08:19.840 maybe I shouldn't even talk about it in depth the 0:08:19.920 --> 0:08:24.200 way I usually talk about things. But Winton is a 0:08:24.240 --> 0:08:27.680 brilliant young man. And I just remember the first time 0:08:27.720 --> 0:08:31.200 I seen him in Branford. I went to New Orleans 0:08:31.240 --> 0:08:33.760 when the World Saxophone Court test started. Kid Jordan brought 0:08:33.840 --> 0:08:37.160 us down there and we played with London Branch and 0:08:37.480 --> 0:08:40.880 this great drummer, forget his name. It was a pharmacist 0:08:40.880 --> 0:08:46.840 from Mississippi. And I seen these two young men, Winton 0:08:46.880 --> 0:08:49.280 and his brother. They were in this in this class 0:08:49.280 --> 0:08:52.640 of kid of Kid Jordan's and bright eyes. They look brillant. 0:08:52.920 --> 0:08:55.760 Next thing, I know, somebody had said we was against 0:08:55.760 --> 0:08:57.840 each other or something like that. I said, but that's 0:08:57.880 --> 0:09:01.720 that young man I seen there and I which was great. 0:09:02.160 --> 0:09:05.000 You know, there's an article that was in a paper 0:09:05.040 --> 0:09:11.400 in Paris. They translate all the great articles around the world, 0:09:11.800 --> 0:09:14.679 different issues into French, and they put it out in 0:09:14.760 --> 0:09:18.080 a magazine you could buy. You can see it anyway. 0:09:18.160 --> 0:09:21.280 It was They had a thing that said is this 0:09:21.360 --> 0:09:24.040 man destroying jazz, had a picture of Winton, and then 0:09:24.600 --> 0:09:27.079 a lot of article was about me and Winton and 0:09:27.160 --> 0:09:30.000 the argument that we had, back and forth and back 0:09:30.080 --> 0:09:33.200 and forth. But finally in the end, man, you know, 0:09:33.760 --> 0:09:38.480 Winton has done some very beautiful things. Lincoln Center, Albert 0:09:38.600 --> 0:09:45.880 Murray's Stanley. I mean, they've created a wonderful situation. And 0:09:46.200 --> 0:09:49.839 I wouldn't I wouldn't do that for anything in my life. 0:09:49.880 --> 0:09:54.520 That never would have been me. I didn't want that job, 0:09:54.559 --> 0:09:56.760 and I'm glad that he's brave enough to do it. 0:09:57.400 --> 0:10:01.720 I have an interest in miss only because I see 0:10:01.440 --> 0:10:05.439 the parallels between because we do this a lot in 0:10:05.520 --> 0:10:09.480 hip hop culture. You know, the really first generation that 0:10:09.600 --> 0:10:13.319 was raised on hip hop. We're just around the corner 0:10:13.320 --> 0:10:17.440 from being senior citizens, and you know a lot of 0:10:17.520 --> 0:10:20.439 us are looking at those that were born after the 0:10:20.480 --> 0:10:22.960 two thousands trying to make sense of like is this 0:10:23.080 --> 0:10:23.480 hip hop? 0:10:23.520 --> 0:10:25.960 If it's not. My general agreement is. 0:10:26.120 --> 0:10:29.839 If I don't like it and it makes me uncomfortable, 0:10:30.559 --> 0:10:32.720 then they might They must be doing something right. 0:10:33.520 --> 0:10:34.520 They're doing something right. 0:10:35.160 --> 0:10:37.560 That's so good in situations like this, because you know, 0:10:37.679 --> 0:10:40.600 like we say, I'm on the communists, they say, well, 0:10:40.640 --> 0:10:44.920 it keeps you sharp. Arguments keep you sharp for hip hoppers. 0:10:45.400 --> 0:10:51.000 Nineteen ninety seven is kind of that year in which 0:10:53.440 --> 0:10:57.439 really the shift of hip hop changed to where we 0:10:57.600 --> 0:11:00.560 kind of are right now, which you know, it's neither 0:11:00.600 --> 0:11:05.040 good nor bad because I've heard music that I personally thought, 0:11:05.240 --> 0:11:07.360 a man, that's classic hip hop, and I'll return to 0:11:07.400 --> 0:11:10.720 it and it'll just be like the songs, all right, 0:11:11.480 --> 0:11:14.400 But and you know, and there's there's production now that's 0:11:14.440 --> 0:11:17.360 way better than anything that came out, you know, in 0:11:17.400 --> 0:11:21.000 the last decades. But in jazz music, I was led 0:11:21.040 --> 0:11:23.840 to believe that, you know, the path at Miles Davis 0:11:23.920 --> 0:11:26.920 was sort of laying down with and you know, even 0:11:26.920 --> 0:11:29.559 though people make the most out of it, just brune 0:11:29.679 --> 0:11:31.679 on the corner. Like the idea of like free jazz 0:11:31.679 --> 0:11:34.880 and coloring outside the lines is Miles wasn't just the 0:11:34.920 --> 0:11:38.440 only one. However, you know, something happened in the mid 0:11:38.480 --> 0:11:42.760 seventies in which a lot of his musicians had to 0:11:43.840 --> 0:11:47.839 find other ways of making income because of his dependency, 0:11:48.440 --> 0:11:50.720 and a lot of them started saying, hey, let's just 0:11:50.720 --> 0:11:53.400 write pop tunes or whatever, and so a lot of 0:11:53.400 --> 0:11:56.520 his people sort of had to go into other areas 0:11:56.520 --> 0:12:00.200 of music, which left the gap open. And I guess 0:12:00.240 --> 0:12:03.679 the perception was that, you know, when you what did 0:12:03.679 --> 0:12:05.840 you make it like your first record, like in seventy eight, 0:12:06.000 --> 0:12:10.960 seventy seventy six, right, so when you arrived then I 0:12:10.960 --> 0:12:15.839 guess the perception was that you are going to pick 0:12:15.880 --> 0:12:18.760 the baton up and lead the charge. And then out 0:12:18.840 --> 0:12:23.360 of nowhere, jazz goes back to the forties. That made 0:12:23.360 --> 0:12:26.440 people feel safe, like the bop movement suddenly returns, like 0:12:26.480 --> 0:12:29.560 in your mind, where did you feel that you were 0:12:29.720 --> 0:12:33.199 creatively in seventy six when you're making your debut. 0:12:33.440 --> 0:12:36.400 Well, you know, prior to that, you know, I grew 0:12:36.440 --> 0:12:38.679 up in the Church of God in Christ and the 0:12:38.679 --> 0:12:42.439 piano player and yeah, she used to be at Ephesians 0:12:42.520 --> 0:12:44.720 Church and then Missionary Church of God in Christ. You know, 0:12:44.760 --> 0:12:47.400 all that happy day she was part of all that, 0:12:47.960 --> 0:12:51.520 you know, So I grew up. I mean I remember 0:12:51.520 --> 0:12:54.280 the first thing I remember about music. I'm three or 0:12:54.280 --> 0:12:56.800 four years old, and she's trying to learn how to 0:12:57.000 --> 0:12:58.920 how to play the foot pedals on the organ, and 0:12:58.960 --> 0:13:01.840 I'm making the game out of it because I wasn't 0:13:01.840 --> 0:13:03.839 know enough to go to school, you know. So the 0:13:03.920 --> 0:13:06.520 next thing I know, I got a saxophone and I'm nine, 0:13:06.600 --> 0:13:09.040 and uh, you know, I took to church that night 0:13:09.120 --> 0:13:13.040 and started playing. Reverend Daniel said, oh, I see, young 0:13:13.160 --> 0:13:16.760 Davis got a new instrument. U he sounds quite spirited, 0:13:16.880 --> 0:13:19.160 you know. And I was playing shit like hour out 0:13:19.200 --> 0:13:21.120 of then. But I didn't know what the hell I 0:13:21.240 --> 0:13:25.199 was doing, you know, but now I do so anyway, 0:13:25.720 --> 0:13:29.080 So when I came to New York, I had played 0:13:29.080 --> 0:13:32.800 a lot of blues gigs I played with, you know, 0:13:33.520 --> 0:13:37.040 I played back up the bad singers R and B 0:13:38.080 --> 0:13:42.760 played in Richmond, you know, behind different singers, Tyron Davids. 0:13:42.800 --> 0:13:46.120 Different people come through, Davis, Yeah, come through your town. 0:13:46.120 --> 0:13:47.959 What other commercial artists have you played. 0:13:47.679 --> 0:13:50.200 With the new monics? I me mean a lot of people. 0:13:50.320 --> 0:13:52.880 I mean everybody in the Bay Area, you know. I 0:13:52.920 --> 0:13:57.040 mean I was in horn sections, you know, mixed company, holmes, 0:13:57.120 --> 0:13:59.760 uptights and different people, you know, people like that, you know, 0:14:00.040 --> 0:14:03.880 working players, different people, you know. I mean, I grew 0:14:03.960 --> 0:14:06.880 up in church, you know, so when I came to 0:14:06.920 --> 0:14:08.920 New York, I kind of put all that stuff away 0:14:09.520 --> 0:14:13.840 to kind of get into this new music movement. So 0:14:14.480 --> 0:14:16.520 when I got to New York, I could tell you 0:14:17.400 --> 0:14:22.200 we used to play down the Studio Wei and different studios, 0:14:21.560 --> 0:14:24.360 and I knew a lot more than a lot of 0:14:24.360 --> 0:14:26.800 the cats around me. I mean, there was a lot 0:14:26.840 --> 0:14:30.480 of cats that were playing the horn real hard and long. 0:14:30.880 --> 0:14:34.800 But I grew up playing the saxophone. I didn't just 0:14:34.880 --> 0:14:38.640 pick it up. You know. I had history in my sound. 0:14:38.760 --> 0:14:40.960 You know, the horn has always been my best friend. 0:14:41.440 --> 0:14:43.720 And I was an athlete, you know. So I could 0:14:43.720 --> 0:14:47.160 play the horn and I could play it with power, 0:14:47.360 --> 0:14:50.600 and I used circle of briefing for power, not for 0:14:51.000 --> 0:14:54.000 long notes. You know, I get louder as I play. 0:14:54.240 --> 0:14:57.680 So anyway, I'm just saying I scrapped all of what 0:14:57.800 --> 0:15:02.200 I learned in my teenage years and early years to 0:15:02.320 --> 0:15:06.680 come into the avant garde because I knew Bobby Bradford, 0:15:07.160 --> 0:15:10.800 and I knew Arthur blythe I knew Wilber Morris and 0:15:10.840 --> 0:15:14.920 Butch Morris, and I met all these people that showed 0:15:14.920 --> 0:15:17.440 me how to go into this area of music. But 0:15:17.560 --> 0:15:20.440 I had already learned a lot of stuff before I 0:15:20.520 --> 0:15:24.720 met them. So when I came to New York, it 0:15:24.760 --> 0:15:29.480 was easy for me to navigate somehow because I had 0:15:29.480 --> 0:15:33.040 this history in my young self. I had this aut 0:15:33.040 --> 0:15:34.880 this history already inside of me. 0:15:39.920 --> 0:15:42.280 Hey everybody, it's Sugar Steve from Questlup Supreme. I hope 0:15:42.320 --> 0:15:44.920 you're enjoying the David Murray episode. Just wanted to tell 0:15:44.920 --> 0:15:46.680 you that we have some live shows coming up with 0:15:46.680 --> 0:15:48.840 the Blue Note to promote this album to David Murray 0:15:48.880 --> 0:15:50.880 and Quest Love and Ray Angry are on called Plumb 0:15:50.880 --> 0:15:54.560 from Jami Recordings. The live shows are happening August twelfth, thirteenth, 0:15:54.640 --> 0:15:57.600 and fourteenth. That's a Monday, Tuesday, and Wednesday, or two 0:15:57.680 --> 0:16:00.320 sets each night. We hope to see you there and 0:16:00.360 --> 0:16:03.320 we hope that you're enjoying Plumb and QLs have a 0:16:03.480 --> 0:16:04.720 very merry Christmas. 0:16:13.680 --> 0:16:17.280 Were you aware of the perception like I always thought 0:16:17.320 --> 0:16:21.720 that or I was under the impression that New Yorkers 0:16:21.800 --> 0:16:27.920 kind of looked down on California musicians jazz musicians. 0:16:28.760 --> 0:16:31.120 Yeah, because they know because a lot of a lot 0:16:31.160 --> 0:16:35.000 of the jazz musicians from California they end up playing 0:16:35.000 --> 0:16:38.560 that smooth jazz in LA and I couldn't stand that 0:16:38.640 --> 0:16:41.760 kind of stuff. So it's valid. I couldn't stand it. 0:16:41.840 --> 0:16:44.240 So when I came to New York, I wanted to play. 0:16:44.880 --> 0:16:47.440 I wanted to play hard. I mean, I heard. I mean, 0:16:47.520 --> 0:16:50.840 I was like coming out of Interstellar Space with Train 0:16:51.000 --> 0:16:54.040 and Rashid Ali. That was like, that's what I wanted 0:16:54.040 --> 0:16:56.080 to do kind of stuff like that, you know. I 0:16:56.080 --> 0:16:58.440 mean I met son Ron, hung out with him and 0:16:59.120 --> 0:17:01.680 Rashan out there. Yeah, you know, I met Sonny Rollins, 0:17:01.720 --> 0:17:04.080 you know, and I wanted to be like those guys 0:17:04.840 --> 0:17:05.240 who was. 0:17:05.200 --> 0:17:08.280 The first stop you in your track moment when you 0:17:08.440 --> 0:17:14.320 realize that the saxophone could go way past stan Getz 0:17:14.440 --> 0:17:18.719 or just someone that you know, was more melodic and 0:17:18.840 --> 0:17:21.640 really didn't come out of lines like the whole spiritual 0:17:21.720 --> 0:17:25.639 jazz movement, because even then there's still this talk of like, 0:17:25.760 --> 0:17:28.080 well is this jazz is this? 0:17:28.680 --> 0:17:31.679 Well? When I heard Coleman Hawkins play The Possibility of 0:17:31.760 --> 0:17:36.040 the tenor, it really the way he played it was endless. 0:17:36.040 --> 0:17:39.119 I mean, to me, he was playing avant garde, just 0:17:39.200 --> 0:17:42.639 pressing his notes, you know, doing those standards, playing body 0:17:42.680 --> 0:17:45.880 and soul and all that. The way he is rhythmic 0:17:46.080 --> 0:17:49.840 approach was. I mean, everybody that plays the tenor saxophone 0:17:49.920 --> 0:17:52.000 copies Coleman Hawkins was. 0:17:52.240 --> 0:17:54.280 Ornette Coleman was. He's someone that you listen to. 0:17:54.920 --> 0:17:58.520 Of course, yeah, of course, of course yeah, I mean 0:17:59.200 --> 0:18:01.760 Bobby Bradford used to play with on that so we talked. 0:18:01.800 --> 0:18:04.160 We talked in LA when I when I passed through LA, 0:18:04.280 --> 0:18:07.400 I was in Pomona College and I never really spent 0:18:07.440 --> 0:18:09.840 that much time in LA. I was mostly on campus, 0:18:10.720 --> 0:18:12.919 and then I came to New York on the independent study, 0:18:14.520 --> 0:18:18.840 and then I was still continuing with my sophomore year. 0:18:18.880 --> 0:18:21.199 I just kind of just started making records and the 0:18:21.200 --> 0:18:24.199 next thing I know, I hear I am sitting here 0:18:24.240 --> 0:18:27.000 with you guys, just like that. 0:18:27.119 --> 0:18:31.960 Oakland, California has a rich, deep history of black musicianship. 0:18:32.880 --> 0:18:35.280 Yeah, like Sliling family Stone and everything. 0:18:36.119 --> 0:18:37.200 I'm a Slyer church. 0:18:38.160 --> 0:18:42.280 Really when when I was a kid, can you tell 0:18:42.320 --> 0:18:42.800 me about it? 0:18:43.320 --> 0:18:45.520 Yeah, we went to Valletjo to some you know, they 0:18:45.560 --> 0:18:50.400 always have these uh pastors appreciation times. You know, one 0:18:50.480 --> 0:18:52.480 church goes to another and they raised money for the 0:18:52.520 --> 0:18:55.320 pastor and then they reciprocate, you know. It was one 0:18:55.320 --> 0:18:57.200 of those kind of deals. That's what That's that's why 0:18:57.359 --> 0:18:59.400 I met him in the poolpit, you know, up there 0:18:59.520 --> 0:19:03.040 with the band. I didn't know who he was at 0:19:03.040 --> 0:19:05.840 the time, but yeah, I mean I look back on it, Yeah, 0:19:05.840 --> 0:19:07.320 I met him. 0:19:07.359 --> 0:19:12.920 What was your acronym KOCHI koch Yeah, yeah, like what 0:19:13.040 --> 0:19:14.240 denomination is that? 0:19:14.359 --> 0:19:14.640 Is it? 0:19:14.840 --> 0:19:19.840 My mother was Tremaine's godmother. We used to take baths together, 0:19:19.920 --> 0:19:27.560 me and train Tremaine Davis, which who became Tremaine So. Yes. 0:19:28.400 --> 0:19:30.919 So we lived not far down the street from Ephesians, 0:19:30.960 --> 0:19:33.280 so a couple of blocks from the park there in Berkeley. 0:19:33.960 --> 0:19:36.159 So yeah, I mean I grew up with these people. 0:19:37.200 --> 0:19:40.520 Was there any point in your life in which you 0:19:40.720 --> 0:19:45.840 did desire uh more of like a commercial route? I 0:19:45.880 --> 0:19:49.240 mean the music of Junior Walker, the music of you know. 0:19:49.320 --> 0:19:53.000 My mother passed when I was thirteen, and three years 0:19:53.000 --> 0:19:57.040 after that my father remarried to Vernon. And she said, 0:19:57.080 --> 0:20:00.199 I just loved that Bernard Johnson. He's just he's just 0:20:00.280 --> 0:20:03.240 really loved, you know, the saxophone player of Bernard Johnson. 0:20:03.280 --> 0:20:05.760 That's her name, right, And he's got a story, you know, 0:20:05.840 --> 0:20:09.879 he's got that thing trimple in this. It's beautiful. And 0:20:09.920 --> 0:20:12.720 he said, David, you can't never do better than him. 0:20:13.359 --> 0:20:15.440 It's okay, I said, sor right. I love Bannard too. 0:20:15.520 --> 0:20:18.240 I'm not gonna I'm gonna leave that to him. I'm 0:20:18.320 --> 0:20:21.040 not gonna I'm not gonna be the gospel guy. No, No, 0:20:21.200 --> 0:20:24.119 that ain't gonna be my thing. I couldn't wait to 0:20:24.119 --> 0:20:29.120 get out of the church. But it was a beautiful 0:20:29.119 --> 0:20:32.080 experience on the other hand. But I'm still with God. 0:20:32.119 --> 0:20:35.920 But I'm not I'm not absolutely well. I believe that. 0:20:36.440 --> 0:20:39.920 Assuming anytime that you played in church, were you allowed 0:20:39.920 --> 0:20:43.360 to even go to that level of. 0:20:44.000 --> 0:20:46.840 Not then it was different then than it is now. 0:20:47.840 --> 0:20:50.040 I mean when when they started rocking it, I mean 0:20:51.560 --> 0:20:53.840 the church that I went to, I remember that women. 0:20:54.320 --> 0:20:56.400 I remember the big thing was culos, when they could 0:20:56.400 --> 0:21:00.159 have start wearing when they could start wearing culos, uh 0:21:00.680 --> 0:21:05.119 to uh, Sunday school, picnic and whatnot. See, that was 0:21:05.160 --> 0:21:08.080 a whole nother time. See, now they have dances that 0:21:08.160 --> 0:21:11.280 are gospel. You know, my people in Texas, you know, 0:21:11.359 --> 0:21:14.840 they they have gospel kind of dances where they they 0:21:14.920 --> 0:21:18.119 danced the beautiful hip hop, you know, gospel hip hop. 0:21:18.200 --> 0:21:21.119 And you know, it wasn't like that before. Women couldn't 0:21:21.160 --> 0:21:24.040 wear a jewelry, you know, I mean, it was a 0:21:24.040 --> 0:21:26.000 lot of things that you couldn't do during that time. 0:21:26.080 --> 0:21:29.040 Then the music just blew up and then people started 0:21:29.040 --> 0:21:32.600 realizing that, oh these kojak musicians are very very good. 0:21:32.960 --> 0:21:35.840 So Koching is the same like Baptist Church KOJK Church. 0:21:35.880 --> 0:21:38.040 They both rock out like that you're saying. As far 0:21:38.119 --> 0:21:41.800 as musically, they both just get the same, get down 0:21:41.840 --> 0:21:43.600 the same when it comes to. 0:21:43.680 --> 0:21:47.600 Well, my brother right now, my brother, he's a kojin musician. 0:21:47.760 --> 0:21:52.520 He plays piano like my mom and directs choir. For instance, 0:21:52.560 --> 0:21:56.080 he plays the three Baptist Church every Sunday. Okay, that's 0:21:56.080 --> 0:21:59.000 when he makes his money up and he runs choirs. 0:22:00.119 --> 0:22:04.320 Some churches, I'm not gonna knock on any religions. Some 0:22:04.440 --> 0:22:10.359 churches just don't. They don't have the musicians that the 0:22:10.520 --> 0:22:13.080 Church of God in Christ seems to generate. That's that's 0:22:13.080 --> 0:22:19.200 all I'm saying. Uh check you check Andre crowd see Andre. Andre. 0:22:19.359 --> 0:22:22.160 First of all, Andre and Stanley's first cousins. 0:22:22.320 --> 0:22:26.280 Did not know why we want to know about. 0:22:27.600 --> 0:22:30.359 All right, all right, look wait, both of them walk 0:22:33.000 --> 0:22:36.200 You're ready, both did now, So I'm not talking about nobody. 0:22:37.359 --> 0:22:42.760 So but I'm but I'm saying you see that in 0:22:42.840 --> 0:22:48.040 California at that time, two bishops h Bishop Cleveland and 0:22:48.160 --> 0:22:52.119 Bishop Crouch. One is in l. A. Crouds in L. A. 0:22:52.680 --> 0:22:56.560 Cleveland's in the Bay on Alcatraz and Berkeley. So yeah, 0:22:56.840 --> 0:23:01.360 there we go and that day so strong strong families, 0:23:01.720 --> 0:23:02.240 very strong. 0:23:03.040 --> 0:23:06.840 Was only continuing your studies your main reason for the 0:23:07.240 --> 0:23:08.240 move to New York City. 0:23:08.720 --> 0:23:14.199 Yes, I got a state scholarship to play music, to 0:23:14.240 --> 0:23:17.600 study music at Pomona College. I met James Newton, and 0:23:17.600 --> 0:23:19.879 he I had to play flute because I you know, 0:23:20.040 --> 0:23:22.240 during that time, you couldn't major in John colch ain't 0:23:22.280 --> 0:23:24.920 like you can now, you know. I mean I had 0:23:24.920 --> 0:23:28.160 to play far aid to get in college on the flute, 0:23:28.200 --> 0:23:31.119