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Speaker 1: Quest Love Supreme is a production of iHeartRadio, Ladies and gentlemen,

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Speaker 1: you are listening to the world's most dangerous creative.

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Speaker 2: Our yesterday is a legendary creative in the vein of

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Speaker 2: such giants as Archie Shepp. In order that Coleman and

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Speaker 2: Albert Island has pushed the envelope of what music and

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Speaker 2: what modal jazz is.

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Speaker 3: It's pretty much carrying the culture on his back right now.

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Speaker 3: Having made over two hundred albums and recorded collaborated with

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Speaker 3: the likes of Max Roach, Coz mahal A, Mary Boraka,

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Speaker 3: The Grateful Dad, Saw Williams, The Roots, Gregor Reporter, the

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Speaker 3: Plumb Projects. He leads the world Saxophone quartet for over

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Speaker 3: forty years. Pretty much He's going to realign the Brave

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Speaker 3: New World Trio and come May of this year, his

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Speaker 3: new project Francesca will be available for mask consumption for

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Speaker 3: us to listen to. Please welcome to the show, David Murray,

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Speaker 3: what's my Supreme?

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Speaker 4: Thank you?

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Speaker 3: So I have to say, and you know I've said

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Speaker 3: this to you before. Your biggest champion is no longer

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Speaker 3: on this plane with us, But you know I came

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Speaker 3: to know you because of my manager Richard Nichols, who

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Speaker 3: before I even met Richard Nichols, Rich was like the

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Speaker 3: guy that that you listened to on like the free

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Speaker 3: jazz station in Philadelphia Radio, and he would constantly play

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Speaker 3: levels of spiritual and free jazz that I never heard

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Speaker 3: of before. And he would play your records. And even

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Speaker 3: though Rich was.

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Speaker 5: Talkative, like I rarely heard Rich.

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Speaker 3: Talk passionately about things, well only because I meant Rich

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Speaker 3: was passionate, but he was also.

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Speaker 5: Like to know, Rich is very extreme.

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Speaker 4: But he was part of that crew, you know, the

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Speaker 4: empty fox hole in Philly Temple University w r T I.

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Speaker 4: He was part of that whole crew that that accepted

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Speaker 4: us with open arms. During that time. I mean I

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Speaker 4: was playing, I was playing with Sonny Murray and Trey's

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Speaker 4: Lounge and hanging out in Philly, you know, doing those

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Speaker 4: kind of gigs. I had some very early days in

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Speaker 4: Philly because I came out from California and people like

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Speaker 4: Rich you know, they kind of helped me settle and

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Speaker 4: Philly was almost like a second home for me because

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Speaker 4: I couldn't go home, you know, because I was three

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Speaker 4: thousand miles away. And I noticed that a lot of

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Speaker 4: cats in New York, they go to Philly and because

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Speaker 4: they felt warm because a WRTI family, Richie and all

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Speaker 4: the people there love Wig fam Trick. Even that was

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Speaker 4: after he was after but people like that.

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Speaker 3: So I'll say, like a month after I met rich

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Speaker 3: we had our first music arguments, and by music really

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Speaker 3: mainly jazz arguments.

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Speaker 5: And you know, the thing was, I was going to school.

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Speaker 3: At a time with a bunch of young lions like

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Speaker 3: Christian McBride, Joey dem Francesco, Kurt Rosewinkle like all these

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Speaker 3: cats who are like now today the establishment, and like

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Speaker 3: in order to get those guys respecting high school, there's

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Speaker 3: a certain language you had to speak. And of course

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Speaker 3: because those guys were younger, they kind of went to

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Speaker 3: the route of where Winton was leading jazz and the

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Speaker 3: way that rich would just come down hard on like

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Speaker 3: no man, like I know you think, and he had

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Speaker 3: to put it in ways that I can understand, which

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Speaker 3: you know, the time he was like, basically this that

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Speaker 3: you're listening to is would basically be like what bad

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Speaker 3: Boy is, like how people think, you know, there's there's

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Speaker 3: there's a sective people that believe that that's not the

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Speaker 3: true real hip hop yeah, real hip hop, and you

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Speaker 3: know some people that wouldn't know better.

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Speaker 5: It's just like, hey, that's hip hop.

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Speaker 3: And I was like, well, give me an example of

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Speaker 3: what you think it is, and pretty much like he

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Speaker 3: just it was important to him that he sort of

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Speaker 3: reprograms me to understand your level of artistry. And once

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Speaker 3: I fell inside that rabbit hole, I couldn't get out of.

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Speaker 3: And it was always richest sort of opinion that because

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Speaker 3: of what he saw as the one step forward thirty

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Speaker 3: steps backwards progression of where jazz was, was like, Okay,

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Speaker 3: we only want to hear this forties bird level of

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Speaker 3: bop and really not move forward like he felt that

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Speaker 3: you and also the M base movement Steve Coleman, Greg Osby,

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Speaker 3: like people really pushing the envelope should have been way

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Speaker 3: way like he's like he's a modern Coltrane, Like he's

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Speaker 3: a living, walking god amongst us.

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Speaker 5: Do you ever tire of that kind of.

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Speaker 3: Fan worship from jazz enthusiasts, because even when looking up

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Speaker 3: your press, like the Village Voice gave you Artists of

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Speaker 3: the Decade in NB eighties, you know.

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Speaker 4: Well that's because you know Stanley was talking to Stanley

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Speaker 4: Crouch he talked a lot and Gary and Gary getting

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Speaker 4: listened to a lot what he said. Stanley wouldn't stop talking,

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Speaker 4: you know.

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Speaker 5: So I know that Stanley Crouch was her.

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Speaker 4: Me was the sixth best drummer in New York. And

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Speaker 4: everybody knows that that wasn't true, right, right, So you

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Speaker 4: know he said, he said a lot of things, you know,

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Speaker 4: and uh when him him and went and hooked up,

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Speaker 4: and uh, that was a kind of a stormy situation.

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Speaker 4: I'd say they became some kind of jazz police or

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Speaker 4: something like that.

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Speaker 5: Right. So that's the thing.

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Speaker 3: How do you what put him in that position where

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Speaker 3: he was that authority figure? Was it Robert christa gal

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Speaker 3: giving him that much leeway at the Village Voice?

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Speaker 4: Well, he was my English teacher in college, you know,

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Speaker 4: Pomona College, California. I mean he had he had he

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Speaker 4: had probably one of the most popular courses on Herman Mailville.

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Speaker 4: Uh there, her Herman Mailville, the guy who wrote Moby Dick.

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Speaker 5: Ok.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, and uh yeah, so he's a writer, you know.

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Speaker 4: So uh and he was the kind of guy that would,

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Speaker 4: uh he gave me a card one time that had

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Speaker 4: his his his fingers in a boxing glove on type

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Speaker 4: bye and that was his business card, you know, so

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Speaker 4: like him and Ishael Reid called me up one time

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Speaker 4: and said, hey man, your boy Stanley's going for the championship.

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Speaker 4: So you know, Richie knew all he knew about all

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Speaker 4: that Richie knew. But Richie was also fighting against that

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Speaker 4: because you know a lot of Richie could see through

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Speaker 4: all that bullshit.

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Speaker 3: Was he that volatile though, because I've heard stories of

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Speaker 3: you know, before he passed, Great Tate told me a

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Speaker 3: story of like Stanley will be in the Village Voice,

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Speaker 3: like having arguments of music with writers and then it

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Speaker 3: goes to pugilism levels.

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Speaker 4: Oh yeah, well you know, tell you I like him too.

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Speaker 4: But I remember he wrote an article about me trying

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Speaker 4: to get trying to find his place too. He wrote

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Speaker 4: an article about me in the Village Voice called David

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Speaker 4: Murray half stepping what really? Yeah? And when I seen him,

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Speaker 4: I talked to him about it.

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Speaker 5: You know, I want to I want to approach it.

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Speaker 4: To a lot of people. I talked to Winton too,

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Speaker 4: I mean I talked to you know. I wasn't scared.

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Speaker 5: I was going to say, have you ever had a

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Speaker 5: conversation with me?

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Speaker 4: And Winton? Had dinner not so long ago. It was wonderful. Look,

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Speaker 4: we buried the hatchet, whatever hatchet there was, we buried

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Speaker 4: it and come to tell you the truth. And I mean,

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Speaker 4: maybe I shouldn't even talk about it in depth the

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Speaker 4: way I usually talk about things. But Winton is a

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Speaker 4: brilliant young man. And I just remember the first time

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Speaker 4: I seen him in Branford. I went to New Orleans

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Speaker 4: when the World Saxophone Court test started. Kid Jordan brought

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Speaker 4: us down there and we played with London Branch and

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Speaker 4: this great drummer, forget his name. It was a pharmacist

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Speaker 4: from Mississippi. And I seen these two young men, Winton

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Speaker 4: and his brother. They were in this in this class

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Speaker 4: of kid of Kid Jordan's and bright eyes. They look brillant.

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Speaker 4: Next thing, I know, somebody had said we was against

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Speaker 4: each other or something like that. I said, but that's

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Speaker 4: that young man I seen there and I which was great.

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Speaker 4: You know, there's an article that was in a paper

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Speaker 4: in Paris. They translate all the great articles around the world,

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Speaker 4: different issues into French, and they put it out in

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Speaker 4: a magazine you could buy. You can see it anyway.

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Speaker 4: It was They had a thing that said is this

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Speaker 4: man destroying jazz, had a picture of Winton, and then

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Speaker 4: a lot of article was about me and Winton and

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Speaker 4: the argument that we had, back and forth and back

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Speaker 4: and forth. But finally in the end, man, you know,

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Speaker 4: Winton has done some very beautiful things. Lincoln Center, Albert

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Speaker 4: Murray's Stanley. I mean, they've created a wonderful situation. And

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Speaker 4: I wouldn't I wouldn't do that for anything in my life.

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Speaker 4: That never would have been me. I didn't want that job,

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Speaker 4: and I'm glad that he's brave enough to do it.

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Speaker 3: I have an interest in miss only because I see

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Speaker 3: the parallels between because we do this a lot in

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Speaker 3: hip hop culture. You know, the really first generation that

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Speaker 3: was raised on hip hop. We're just around the corner

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Speaker 3: from being senior citizens, and you know a lot of

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Speaker 3: us are looking at those that were born after the

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Speaker 3: two thousands trying to make sense of like is this

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Speaker 3: hip hop?

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Speaker 5: If it's not. My general agreement is.

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Speaker 3: If I don't like it and it makes me uncomfortable,

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Speaker 3: then they might They must be doing something right.

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Speaker 5: They're doing something right.

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Speaker 4: That's so good in situations like this, because you know,

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Speaker 4: like we say, I'm on the communists, they say, well,

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Speaker 4: it keeps you sharp. Arguments keep you sharp for hip hoppers.

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Speaker 3: Nineteen ninety seven is kind of that year in which

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Speaker 3: really the shift of hip hop changed to where we

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Speaker 3: kind of are right now, which you know, it's neither

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Speaker 3: good nor bad because I've heard music that I personally thought,

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Speaker 3: a man, that's classic hip hop, and I'll return to

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Speaker 3: it and it'll just be like the songs, all right,

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Speaker 3: But and you know, and there's there's production now that's

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Speaker 3: way better than anything that came out, you know, in

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Speaker 3: the last decades. But in jazz music, I was led

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Speaker 3: to believe that, you know, the path at Miles Davis

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Speaker 3: was sort of laying down with and you know, even

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Speaker 3: though people make the most out of it, just brune

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Speaker 3: on the corner. Like the idea of like free jazz

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Speaker 3: and coloring outside the lines is Miles wasn't just the

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Speaker 3: only one. However, you know, something happened in the mid

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Speaker 3: seventies in which a lot of his musicians had to

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Speaker 3: find other ways of making income because of his dependency,

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Speaker 3: and a lot of them started saying, hey, let's just

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Speaker 3: write pop tunes or whatever, and so a lot of

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Speaker 3: his people sort of had to go into other areas

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Speaker 3: of music, which left the gap open. And I guess

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Speaker 3: the perception was that, you know, when you what did

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Speaker 3: you make it like your first record, like in seventy eight,

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Speaker 3: seventy seventy six, right, so when you arrived then I

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Speaker 3: guess the perception was that you are going to pick

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Speaker 3: the baton up and lead the charge. And then out

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Speaker 3: of nowhere, jazz goes back to the forties. That made

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Speaker 3: people feel safe, like the bop movement suddenly returns, like

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Speaker 3: in your mind, where did you feel that you were

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Speaker 3: creatively in seventy six when you're making your debut.

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Speaker 4: Well, you know, prior to that, you know, I grew

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Speaker 4: up in the Church of God in Christ and the

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Speaker 4: piano player and yeah, she used to be at Ephesians

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Speaker 4: Church and then Missionary Church of God in Christ. You know,

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Speaker 4: all that happy day she was part of all that,

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Speaker 4: you know, So I grew up. I mean I remember

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Speaker 4: the first thing I remember about music. I'm three or

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Speaker 4: four years old, and she's trying to learn how to

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Speaker 4: how to play the foot pedals on the organ, and

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Speaker 4: I'm making the game out of it because I wasn't

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Speaker 4: know enough to go to school, you know. So the

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Speaker 4: next thing I know, I got a saxophone and I'm nine,

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Speaker 4: and uh, you know, I took to church that night

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Speaker 4: and started playing. Reverend Daniel said, oh, I see, young

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Speaker 4: Davis got a new instrument. U he sounds quite spirited,

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Speaker 4: you know. And I was playing shit like hour out

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Speaker 4: of then. But I didn't know what the hell I

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Speaker 4: was doing, you know, but now I do so anyway,

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Speaker 4: So when I came to New York, I had played

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Speaker 4: a lot of blues gigs I played with, you know,

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Speaker 4: I played back up the bad singers R and B

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Speaker 4: played in Richmond, you know, behind different singers, Tyron Davids.

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Speaker 4: Different people come through, Davis, Yeah, come through your town.

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Speaker 5: What other commercial artists have you played.

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Speaker 4: With the new monics? I me mean a lot of people.

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Speaker 4: I mean everybody in the Bay Area, you know. I

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Speaker 4: mean I was in horn sections, you know, mixed company, holmes,

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Speaker 4: uptights and different people, you know, people like that, you know,

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Speaker 4: working players, different people, you know. I mean, I grew

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Speaker 4: up in church, you know, so when I came to

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Speaker 4: New York, I kind of put all that stuff away

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Speaker 4: to kind of get into this new music movement. So

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Speaker 4: when I got to New York, I could tell you

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Speaker 4: we used to play down the Studio Wei and different studios,

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Speaker 4: and I knew a lot more than a lot of

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Speaker 4: the cats around me. I mean, there was a lot

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Speaker 4: of cats that were playing the horn real hard and long.

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Speaker 4: But I grew up playing the saxophone. I didn't just

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Speaker 4: pick it up. You know. I had history in my sound.

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Speaker 4: You know, the horn has always been my best friend.

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Speaker 4: And I was an athlete, you know. So I could

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Speaker 4: play the horn and I could play it with power,

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Speaker 4: and I used circle of briefing for power, not for

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Speaker 4: long notes. You know, I get louder as I play.

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Speaker 4: So anyway, I'm just saying I scrapped all of what

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Speaker 4: I learned in my teenage years and early years to

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Speaker 4: come into the avant garde because I knew Bobby Bradford,

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Speaker 4: and I knew Arthur blythe I knew Wilber Morris and

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Speaker 4: Butch Morris, and I met all these people that showed

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Speaker 4: me how to go into this area of music. But

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Speaker 4: I had already learned a lot of stuff before I

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Speaker 4: met them. So when I came to New York, it

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Speaker 4: was easy for me to navigate somehow because I had

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Speaker 4: this history in my young self. I had this aut

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Speaker 4: this history already inside of me.

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Speaker 6: Hey everybody, it's Sugar Steve from Questlup Supreme. I hope

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Speaker 6: you're enjoying the David Murray episode. Just wanted to tell

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Speaker 6: you that we have some live shows coming up with

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Speaker 6: the Blue Note to promote this album to David Murray

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Speaker 6: and Quest Love and Ray Angry are on called Plumb

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Speaker 6: from Jami Recordings. The live shows are happening August twelfth, thirteenth,

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Speaker 6: and fourteenth. That's a Monday, Tuesday, and Wednesday, or two

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Speaker 6: sets each night. We hope to see you there and

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Speaker 6: we hope that you're enjoying Plumb and QLs have a

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Speaker 6: very merry Christmas.

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Speaker 3: Were you aware of the perception like I always thought

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Speaker 3: that or I was under the impression that New Yorkers

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Speaker 3: kind of looked down on California musicians jazz musicians.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, because they know because a lot of a lot

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Speaker 4: of the jazz musicians from California they end up playing

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Speaker 4: that smooth jazz in LA and I couldn't stand that

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Speaker 4: kind of stuff. So it's valid. I couldn't stand it.

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Speaker 4: So when I came to New York, I wanted to play.

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Speaker 4: I wanted to play hard. I mean, I heard. I mean,

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Speaker 4: I was like coming out of Interstellar Space with Train

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Speaker 4: and Rashid Ali. That was like, that's what I wanted

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Speaker 4: to do kind of stuff like that, you know. I

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Speaker 4: mean I met son Ron, hung out with him and

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Speaker 4: Rashan out there. Yeah, you know, I met Sonny Rollins,

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Speaker 4: you know, and I wanted to be like those guys

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Speaker 4: who was.

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Speaker 3: The first stop you in your track moment when you

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Speaker 3: realize that the saxophone could go way past stan Getz

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Speaker 3: or just someone that you know, was more melodic and

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Speaker 3: really didn't come out of lines like the whole spiritual

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Speaker 3: jazz movement, because even then there's still this talk of like,

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Speaker 3: well is this jazz is this?

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Speaker 4: Well? When I heard Coleman Hawkins play The Possibility of

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Speaker 4: the tenor, it really the way he played it was endless.

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Speaker 4: I mean, to me, he was playing avant garde, just

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Speaker 4: pressing his notes, you know, doing those standards, playing body

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Speaker 4: and soul and all that. The way he is rhythmic

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Speaker 4: approach was. I mean, everybody that plays the tenor saxophone

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Speaker 4: copies Coleman Hawkins was.

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Speaker 5: Ornette Coleman was. He's someone that you listen to.

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Speaker 4: Of course, yeah, of course, of course yeah, I mean

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Speaker 4: Bobby Bradford used to play with on that so we talked.

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Speaker 4: We talked in LA when I when I passed through LA,

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Speaker 4: I was in Pomona College and I never really spent

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Speaker 4: that much time in LA. I was mostly on campus,

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Speaker 4: and then I came to New York on the independent study,

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Speaker 4: and then I was still continuing with my sophomore year.

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Speaker 4: I just kind of just started making records and the

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Speaker 4: next thing I know, I hear I am sitting here

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Speaker 4: with you guys, just like that.

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Speaker 3: Oakland, California has a rich, deep history of black musicianship.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, like Sliling family Stone and everything.

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Speaker 4: I'm a Slyer church.

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Speaker 5: Really when when I was a kid, can you tell

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Speaker 5: me about it?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, we went to Valletjo to some you know, they

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Speaker 4: always have these uh pastors appreciation times. You know, one

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Speaker 4: church goes to another and they raised money for the

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Speaker 4: pastor and then they reciprocate, you know. It was one

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Speaker 4: of those kind of deals. That's what That's that's why

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Speaker 4: I met him in the poolpit, you know, up there

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Speaker 4: with the band. I didn't know who he was at

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Speaker 4: the time, but yeah, I mean I look back on it, Yeah,

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Speaker 4: I met him.

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Speaker 3: What was your acronym KOCHI koch Yeah, yeah, like what

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Speaker 3: denomination is that?

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Speaker 5: Is it?

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Speaker 4: My mother was Tremaine's godmother. We used to take baths together,

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Speaker 4: me and train Tremaine Davis, which who became Tremaine So. Yes.

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Speaker 4: So we lived not far down the street from Ephesians,

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Speaker 4: so a couple of blocks from the park there in Berkeley.

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Speaker 4: So yeah, I mean I grew up with these people.

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Speaker 3: Was there any point in your life in which you

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Speaker 3: did desire uh more of like a commercial route? I

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Speaker 3: mean the music of Junior Walker, the music of you know.

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Speaker 4: My mother passed when I was thirteen, and three years

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Speaker 4: after that my father remarried to Vernon. And she said,

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Speaker 4: I just loved that Bernard Johnson. He's just he's just

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Speaker 4: really loved, you know, the saxophone player of Bernard Johnson.

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Speaker 4: That's her name, right, And he's got a story, you know,

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Speaker 4: he's got that thing trimple in this. It's beautiful. And

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Speaker 4: he said, David, you can't never do better than him.

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Speaker 4: It's okay, I said, sor right. I love Bannard too.

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Speaker 4: I'm not gonna I'm gonna leave that to him. I'm

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Speaker 4: not gonna I'm not gonna be the gospel guy. No, No,

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Speaker 4: that ain't gonna be my thing. I couldn't wait to

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Speaker 4: get out of the church. But it was a beautiful

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Speaker 4: experience on the other hand. But I'm still with God.

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Speaker 4: But I'm not I'm not absolutely well. I believe that.

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Speaker 3: Assuming anytime that you played in church, were you allowed

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Speaker 3: to even go to that level of.

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Speaker 4: Not then it was different then than it is now.

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Speaker 4: I mean when when they started rocking it, I mean

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Speaker 4: the church that I went to, I remember that women.

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Speaker 4: I remember the big thing was culos, when they could

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Speaker 4: have start wearing when they could start wearing culos, uh

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Speaker 4: to uh, Sunday school, picnic and whatnot. See, that was

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Speaker 4: a whole nother time. See, now they have dances that

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Speaker 4: are gospel. You know, my people in Texas, you know,

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Speaker 4: they they have gospel kind of dances where they they

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Speaker 4: danced the beautiful hip hop, you know, gospel hip hop.

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Speaker 4: And you know, it wasn't like that before. Women couldn't

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Speaker 4: wear a jewelry, you know, I mean, it was a

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Speaker 4: lot of things that you couldn't do during that time.

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Speaker 4: Then the music just blew up and then people started

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Speaker 4: realizing that, oh these kojak musicians are very very good.

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Speaker 7: So Koching is the same like Baptist Church KOJK Church.

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Speaker 7: They both rock out like that you're saying. As far

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Speaker 7: as musically, they both just get the same, get down

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Speaker 7: the same when it comes to.

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Speaker 4: Well, my brother right now, my brother, he's a kojin musician.

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Speaker 4: He plays piano like my mom and directs choir. For instance,

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Speaker 4: he plays the three Baptist Church every Sunday. Okay, that's

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Speaker 4: when he makes his money up and he runs choirs.

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Speaker 4: Some churches, I'm not gonna knock on any religions. Some

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Speaker 4: churches just don't. They don't have the musicians that the

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Speaker 4: Church of God in Christ seems to generate. That's that's

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Speaker 4: all I'm saying. Uh check you check Andre crowd see Andre. Andre.

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Speaker 4: First of all, Andre and Stanley's first cousins.

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Speaker 5: Did not know why we want to know about.

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Speaker 4: All right, all right, look wait, both of them walk

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Speaker 4: You're ready, both did now, So I'm not talking about nobody.

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Speaker 4: So but I'm but I'm saying you see that in

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Speaker 4: California at that time, two bishops h Bishop Cleveland and

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Speaker 4: Bishop Crouch. One is in l. A. Crouds in L. A.

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Speaker 4: Cleveland's in the Bay on Alcatraz and Berkeley. So yeah,

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Speaker 4: there we go and that day so strong strong families,

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Speaker 4: very strong.

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Speaker 3: Was only continuing your studies your main reason for the

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Speaker 3: move to New York City.

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Speaker 4: Yes, I got a state scholarship to play music, to

396
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Speaker 4: study music at Pomona College. I met James Newton, and

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Speaker 4: he I had to play flute because I you know,

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Speaker 4: during that time, you couldn't major in John colch ain't

399
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Speaker 4: like you can now, you know. I mean I had

400
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Speaker 4: to play far aid to get in college on the flute,

401
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Speaker 4: you know. So yeah, I met to put my tennis

402
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Speaker 4: saxophone over there, you know, And so I started playing

403
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Speaker 4: with the Arthur Blythe and Stanley and Mark Dresser and

404
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Speaker 4: James Newton. And James Newton hooked me up with the flute,

405
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Speaker 4: and so I could get in and do all my

406
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Speaker 4: interest exams and all that because I had won a

407
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Speaker 4: state scholarship. Because so I could have went to school

408
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Speaker 4: anywhere I wanted to. In California, I went by Stanford

409
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Speaker 4: and it was bland. It was nothing happening over there.

410
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Speaker 4: I went to University Specific, it wasn't nothing happening there.

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Speaker 4: I went to a lot of colleges, but Pomona. The

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Speaker 4: only reason I went there was because I met Stanley,

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Speaker 4: and I met Bobby, and I met Arthur, and I

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Speaker 4: met all these guys who end up coming to New York.

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Speaker 4: And Arthur came to New York. I wanted to go too,

416
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Speaker 4: So I figured out a way to get this independent

417
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Speaker 4: study things, so I'll get to New York.

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Speaker 5: What was it about Stanley that dread to him?

419
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Speaker 4: Like?

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Speaker 5: Was it a constant thing of one upsmanship or you know? Well?

421
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Speaker 4: I also wanted to be a writer, and I was

422
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Speaker 4: impressed by his writing. He had written this book of poetry,

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Speaker 4: Ain't no Ambulances for no niggas tonight right, Bob Thiel

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Speaker 4: put it out anyway, you know, And I was interested

425
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Speaker 4: in all kinds. I was writing poetry. I thought I

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Speaker 4: could be a writer and a musician and real In fact,

427
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Speaker 4: I did my senior thesis on Stanley's poetry book. You know,

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Speaker 4: after a while, after I known Stanley for a couple

429
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Speaker 4: of years, I had to get away from his aura,

430
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Speaker 4: you know, I mean, I mean he was a good friend,

431
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Speaker 4: very good friend. But when he hooked up with Winton,

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Speaker 4: then I had to put some distance on that, that

433
00:25:09,480 --> 00:25:13,880
Speaker 4: whole thing and it's just the nature of things. I mean,

434
00:25:13,920 --> 00:25:16,000
Speaker 4: I used to hang out with Albert Murray a lot.

435
00:25:17,080 --> 00:25:19,600
Speaker 4: Then all of a sudden I wasn't welcome anymore. I

436
00:25:19,640 --> 00:25:22,399
Speaker 4: don't know. It was kind of getting the cold shoulder

437
00:25:22,440 --> 00:25:24,120
Speaker 4: over there. Now.

438
00:25:24,680 --> 00:25:26,720
Speaker 5: So what was your practice at your height?

439
00:25:27,359 --> 00:25:29,720
Speaker 4: The times when I wasn't doing everything else, I was

440
00:25:29,760 --> 00:25:31,560
Speaker 4: just practicing. I mean, I just kept a horn in

441
00:25:31,600 --> 00:25:34,560
Speaker 4: my mouth. I don't I don't even know the hours.

442
00:25:34,600 --> 00:25:36,520
Speaker 4: It is probably way more than that. I mean, I

443
00:25:36,600 --> 00:25:39,520
Speaker 4: just would have the horn everywhere. I mean, you know,

444
00:25:39,600 --> 00:25:43,080
Speaker 4: when you're when you're in your in your teens and twenties,

445
00:25:43,200 --> 00:25:47,320
Speaker 4: until you have kids, you know that horn is everything

446
00:25:47,359 --> 00:25:50,320
Speaker 4: you know. And then it's sometime when the kids come

447
00:25:50,359 --> 00:25:53,320
Speaker 4: there go to some of your practice hours. I don't know,

448
00:25:53,400 --> 00:25:57,119
Speaker 4: it's just life. I guess. Now my son and I

449
00:25:57,160 --> 00:25:59,160
Speaker 4: we spend a couple of hours a day every day

450
00:25:59,320 --> 00:26:02,280
Speaker 4: and be Bop just going over because I'm trying to

451
00:26:02,800 --> 00:26:06,760
Speaker 4: impart a lot of things to him. Yeah, so you know,

452
00:26:06,920 --> 00:26:10,000
Speaker 4: to to my son mingus, you know, and uh, he

453
00:26:10,040 --> 00:26:13,080
Speaker 4: could play the guitar, but he wants to know everything now.

454
00:26:13,400 --> 00:26:15,800
Speaker 4: He's like a sponge and I'm just glad that he's

455
00:26:15,840 --> 00:26:18,960
Speaker 4: ready for it because he's played with me uh in

456
00:26:19,040 --> 00:26:23,760
Speaker 4: different settings and uh with my octet and with different bands.

457
00:26:23,880 --> 00:26:27,359
Speaker 4: But now he wants to go inside because I always thought,

458
00:26:27,480 --> 00:26:30,480
Speaker 4: you know, jazz is the black man's music, and jazz

459
00:26:30,560 --> 00:26:32,639
Speaker 4: history is so short, you got to know all of it.

460
00:26:34,280 --> 00:26:37,080
Speaker 4: You know, it's a short history. And you you know,

461
00:26:37,400 --> 00:26:40,560
Speaker 4: with James P. You know, go back to James being

462
00:26:40,600 --> 00:26:43,000
Speaker 4: get all that, you know, get everything, James P. Johnson.

463
00:26:43,359 --> 00:26:46,760
Speaker 4: Just go back and get all this. You know, you'll

464
00:26:46,800 --> 00:26:50,919
Speaker 4: be blake. Just get everything. Jazz is such a short

465
00:26:50,960 --> 00:26:54,280
Speaker 4: and rich history. We can't just learn one era of

466
00:26:54,320 --> 00:26:56,199
Speaker 4: it and think we got it all. We can't just

467
00:26:56,280 --> 00:26:58,800
Speaker 4: copy people's solo and think we got it all. You

468
00:26:58,880 --> 00:27:00,600
Speaker 4: got to go back to jazz. I mean, I know

469
00:27:00,680 --> 00:27:05,679
Speaker 4: bass players people talk about jazz before court changes. I mean,

470
00:27:05,800 --> 00:27:07,960
Speaker 4: guys have been playing jazz for a while. They didn't

471
00:27:07,960 --> 00:27:11,720
Speaker 4: even know what to call it, you know. So I'm

472
00:27:11,800 --> 00:27:14,679
Speaker 4: lucky enough to have known some of these musicians that

473
00:27:14,760 --> 00:27:18,480
Speaker 4: are gone, didn't gone now, But to go back and

474
00:27:18,880 --> 00:27:22,560
Speaker 4: talk to people like I was just talking about Duxter Gordon,

475
00:27:22,640 --> 00:27:26,520
Speaker 4: Johnny Griffin, you know, going back to people who really

476
00:27:26,960 --> 00:27:30,520
Speaker 4: James Raymi from Texas the bass player. He's talked about

477
00:27:30,600 --> 00:27:34,800
Speaker 4: jazz before it changes. I'm like, wow, friend of Steve McCall, you.

478
00:27:34,720 --> 00:27:38,480
Speaker 3: Know, do you feel as though were in danger of

479
00:27:38,880 --> 00:27:40,679
Speaker 3: what they say, losing the recipes?

480
00:27:41,560 --> 00:27:44,679
Speaker 4: Perhaps because you know, but jazz is blues, you know.

481
00:27:45,359 --> 00:27:49,479
Speaker 4: Hanging around with Taj Mahall, he's a student of the blues,

482
00:27:49,600 --> 00:27:53,080
Speaker 4: you know, and he's probably one of the older significant

483
00:27:53,240 --> 00:27:57,720
Speaker 4: blues artists out here still. So we got to go back.

484
00:27:57,800 --> 00:28:00,480
Speaker 4: When we're talking about going back to our roots, we

485
00:28:00,560 --> 00:28:02,600
Speaker 4: got to deal with the blues too, you know. And

486
00:28:02,880 --> 00:28:06,199
Speaker 4: most great jazz artists there's a lot of blues in

487
00:28:06,240 --> 00:28:09,160
Speaker 4: what they do. You know, Duke Ellington, you know, com

488
00:28:09,200 --> 00:28:11,040
Speaker 4: base it, there's a lot of blues up in there.

489
00:28:11,119 --> 00:28:13,639
Speaker 4: You know. You go back to Jimmy Lunsford, there's a

490
00:28:13,680 --> 00:28:15,760
Speaker 4: lot of blues up in there, you know. I mean,

491
00:28:16,200 --> 00:28:19,399
Speaker 4: it's what makes us different than other bands. Like if

492
00:28:19,440 --> 00:28:22,200
Speaker 4: you think of some of the some of the more

493
00:28:22,240 --> 00:28:26,439
Speaker 4: successful white bands in the history, the thing that's different

494
00:28:26,440 --> 00:28:28,600
Speaker 4: about the black bands that there's a lot of blues

495
00:28:28,640 --> 00:28:31,240
Speaker 4: in there. I think that reminds me of Leroy Jones.

496
00:28:31,840 --> 00:28:32,880
Speaker 4: That's what we learned from him.

497
00:28:33,800 --> 00:28:38,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's right, Like my opinion on musicianship today is

498
00:28:38,360 --> 00:28:42,440
Speaker 3: that we're doing too much. I would like musicians of

499
00:28:42,480 --> 00:28:46,480
Speaker 3: my age, and you know, musicians I see now there's

500
00:28:46,520 --> 00:28:48,280
Speaker 3: a lot of overplaying because no one knows how to

501
00:28:48,360 --> 00:28:51,360
Speaker 3: gel with each other as a unit. But you know,

502
00:28:51,440 --> 00:28:56,040
Speaker 3: I also know that there's not often opportunities for bands

503
00:28:56,080 --> 00:28:59,200
Speaker 3: to even play together unless you know, if you're in

504
00:28:59,280 --> 00:29:01,480
Speaker 3: church one day out the you're gonna do everything about

505
00:29:01,480 --> 00:29:06,560
Speaker 3: the kitchen sink. But what specifically do you look for

506
00:29:06,840 --> 00:29:09,400
Speaker 3: in a musician that you know.

507
00:29:09,440 --> 00:29:13,120
Speaker 4: That they have it? Well, it depends on the instrument.

508
00:29:13,880 --> 00:29:17,680
Speaker 4: It's like the band I have now, Luke Stewart, he's

509
00:29:17,680 --> 00:29:21,280
Speaker 4: starting to become one of the well known bass players out.

510
00:29:21,280 --> 00:29:23,800
Speaker 4: He reminds me a lot of Fred Hopkins, you know,

511
00:29:24,240 --> 00:29:27,080
Speaker 4: I mean people who really play with soul, you know,

512
00:29:27,240 --> 00:29:31,640
Speaker 4: I mean not just okay, the education and music these days,

513
00:29:32,320 --> 00:29:35,080
Speaker 4: I hear a lot of notes, but I'm not sure

514
00:29:35,120 --> 00:29:36,000
Speaker 4: that they're all true.

515
00:29:37,280 --> 00:29:41,920
Speaker 3: Okay, So I hear people say that, and I wonder, like,

516
00:29:41,960 --> 00:29:43,640
Speaker 3: what set of areas are you listening to that?

517
00:29:43,840 --> 00:29:45,440
Speaker 5: Because I want to know that as well.

518
00:29:45,600 --> 00:29:48,479
Speaker 4: With a bass player, I want somebody who really is

519
00:29:48,520 --> 00:29:51,760
Speaker 4: there to support me. I mean, there's bass players that

520
00:29:52,480 --> 00:29:54,320
Speaker 4: want to get up in your range and play what

521
00:29:54,440 --> 00:29:58,600
Speaker 4: you're playing, and that's not what the function of the bass.

522
00:29:58,640 --> 00:30:01,760
Speaker 4: For me, the bass is the is really what swings

523
00:30:01,800 --> 00:30:05,800
Speaker 4: the band. The drummer swings the band too, but with

524
00:30:05,920 --> 00:30:08,479
Speaker 4: a good bass player, it really can happen, you know,

525
00:30:09,240 --> 00:30:13,240
Speaker 4: and from the drummer. You know, just today as far

526
00:30:13,280 --> 00:30:16,400
Speaker 4: as drums have gotten to this point today with the

527
00:30:17,640 --> 00:30:21,320
Speaker 4: between you go for Max Roach, you go to Sonny Murray,

528
00:30:21,360 --> 00:30:24,400
Speaker 4: you go to rash Lee, you go to Steve McCall,

529
00:30:24,560 --> 00:30:27,560
Speaker 4: you go to you go to Boohinout, you go to

530
00:30:28,000 --> 00:30:31,560
Speaker 4: different drummers, great great drummers. You know, Philly, Joe Jones,

531
00:30:31,920 --> 00:30:35,240
Speaker 4: you know uh who I play with. You look for

532
00:30:35,280 --> 00:30:37,680
Speaker 4: different things in a drummer than you look for in

533
00:30:37,760 --> 00:30:39,560
Speaker 4: the bass player. But if you put the two of

534
00:30:39,600 --> 00:30:43,520
Speaker 4: them together, they don't always have to be playing exactly

535
00:30:43,520 --> 00:30:46,840
Speaker 4: the same thing. It's not like in funk where the bass,

536
00:30:46,920 --> 00:30:49,120
Speaker 4: drum and the bass are playing the same thing and

537
00:30:49,200 --> 00:30:52,040
Speaker 4: then people say that's a group. No, that's not necessarily it.

538
00:30:52,080 --> 00:30:55,480
Speaker 4: In jazz, they have to compliment one of one another.

539
00:30:55,920 --> 00:30:59,040
Speaker 4: And to me, the bass and the drums are the rhythms.

540
00:30:59,320 --> 00:31:04,560
Speaker 4: The pianos else. The piano is more of a uh

541
00:31:04,800 --> 00:31:08,800
Speaker 4: independent in the band. I mean he he or she

542
00:31:09,120 --> 00:31:11,719
Speaker 4: colors as long as they don't get in my space,

543
00:31:12,920 --> 00:31:16,800
Speaker 4: you know, because see I've told people say, well, you know,

544
00:31:17,480 --> 00:31:20,160
Speaker 4: I've had some great piano players that I've recorded with.

545
00:31:20,280 --> 00:31:23,240
Speaker 4: You know, can you imagine having to fire the great

546
00:31:23,280 --> 00:31:26,400
Speaker 4: John Hicks are having to having to not fire but

547
00:31:26,480 --> 00:31:29,960
Speaker 4: not called back. I never fire anyone. I just don't

548
00:31:30,000 --> 00:31:33,000
Speaker 4: call him back. I mean, how do you how do

549
00:31:33,040 --> 00:31:37,280
Speaker 4: you say, okay, I've had a Don pulling. I've done

550
00:31:37,280 --> 00:31:40,000
Speaker 4: some wonderful things with Don. But after you make a

551
00:31:40,040 --> 00:31:42,840
Speaker 4: certain amount of records, I don't care how good your

552
00:31:42,880 --> 00:31:46,720
Speaker 4: band is and how many tunes you write, it's gonna

553
00:31:46,800 --> 00:31:49,560
Speaker 4: end up being the same record after a while. So

554
00:31:49,680 --> 00:31:54,160
Speaker 4: you gotta change otherwise you won't have the longevity that

555
00:31:54,240 --> 00:31:58,240
Speaker 4: I've had. I mean I've I've played with Randy Western,

556
00:31:58,680 --> 00:32:01,400
Speaker 4: played with Jackie Bayart, i played with John, I played

557
00:32:01,400 --> 00:32:05,040
Speaker 4: with Don, I played with David Rell and they all

558
00:32:05,120 --> 00:32:08,320
Speaker 4: are wonderful. But you got to keep moving. You can't

559
00:32:08,560 --> 00:32:11,880
Speaker 4: be stagnant in what rhythm section you hire. Now I'm

560
00:32:11,880 --> 00:32:15,480
Speaker 4: playing with with with mart De Sanchez on piano. She's

561
00:32:15,520 --> 00:32:19,200
Speaker 4: from Madrid, and she brings a whole other thing into

562
00:32:19,320 --> 00:32:22,880
Speaker 4: the music, maybe a little more a studied approach than

563
00:32:22,960 --> 00:32:27,720
Speaker 4: John Hicks. Maybe not as as a syncopated rhythmically as

564
00:32:27,800 --> 00:32:32,760
Speaker 4: John Hicks or Don Pulling, but she's heard them both. Uh,

565
00:32:32,800 --> 00:32:34,760
Speaker 4: So you know, it's a different kind of pianel. I

566
00:32:34,840 --> 00:32:36,960
Speaker 4: like playing with Lafayette Gilchrist as well, and I like

567
00:32:37,040 --> 00:32:39,080
Speaker 4: playing with D. D. Jackson. That's a whole other thing.

568
00:32:39,720 --> 00:32:42,360
Speaker 4: So there's a lot of great piano players as a

569
00:32:42,400 --> 00:32:45,240
Speaker 4: piano town. So you put the you put the rhythm

570
00:32:45,240 --> 00:32:48,960
Speaker 4: section together, and I look for people now that are

571
00:32:49,440 --> 00:32:50,320
Speaker 4: half my age.

572
00:32:50,680 --> 00:32:55,040
Speaker 3: Well, you mentioned D. D. Jackson. Were you playing with D. D.

573
00:32:55,200 --> 00:32:56,480
Speaker 3: Jackson way before.

574
00:32:56,720 --> 00:32:58,800
Speaker 4: I hooked up with D. D. Jackson? When I was

575
00:32:58,840 --> 00:33:02,520
Speaker 4: with uh just in time in Canada, that record company,

576
00:33:02,920 --> 00:33:04,080
Speaker 4: he was with them too.

577
00:33:04,600 --> 00:33:07,480
Speaker 5: Did you bring D. D. Jackson to us or did we?

578
00:33:07,560 --> 00:33:09,840
Speaker 8: I knew maybe rich did, because maybe.

579
00:33:09,800 --> 00:33:10,360
Speaker 4: Yes I did.

580
00:33:10,600 --> 00:33:12,719
Speaker 5: It was me, Okay, I was about to say, how

581
00:33:12,720 --> 00:33:15,080
Speaker 5: did D. D. Jackson in my life? It was me.

582
00:33:17,560 --> 00:33:20,000
Speaker 4: Totally? I called I called rich and said, hey, man,

583
00:33:20,080 --> 00:33:23,280
Speaker 4: I got something for you here. You guys don't like

584
00:33:25,400 --> 00:33:28,680
Speaker 4: is that was my gift to Richie and you guys.

585
00:33:28,760 --> 00:33:31,240
Speaker 5: You work with everybody. I mean, if they work with you,

586
00:33:31,320 --> 00:33:32,480
Speaker 5: then I know they're great.

587
00:33:37,360 --> 00:33:38,960
Speaker 3: This is what I always wanted to know, because I

588
00:33:39,080 --> 00:33:42,480
Speaker 3: never it's hard to find any the albums with them,

589
00:33:42,520 --> 00:33:44,920
Speaker 3: and it's weird to ask you what your opinion on

590
00:33:45,000 --> 00:33:45,880
Speaker 3: a musician or not.

591
00:33:46,280 --> 00:33:47,960
Speaker 5: I didn't know that you worked with Alu Dara.

592
00:33:48,720 --> 00:33:52,920
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, I know of him, but I don't know.

593
00:33:53,480 --> 00:33:56,800
Speaker 4: Went on my first European tour. We went to Holland

594
00:33:56,840 --> 00:34:00,120
Speaker 4: and we did the thirty concerts. Uh in my and

595
00:34:00,400 --> 00:34:04,400
Speaker 4: was Olu Dara and Philip Wilson. So that's another long story.

596
00:34:04,720 --> 00:34:10,160
Speaker 4: But uh, anyway, old is fantastic. And then when the

597
00:34:10,200 --> 00:34:15,120
Speaker 4: Wildflowers thing came, when they did the whole Wildflowers thing,

598
00:34:15,640 --> 00:34:19,440
Speaker 4: O lou was was was picked out to continue on

599
00:34:19,680 --> 00:34:26,080
Speaker 4: and uh to do a big record for Allen Douglas. Yeah,

600
00:34:26,200 --> 00:34:29,279
Speaker 4: and so Alan Douglas was he produced after after the

601
00:34:29,320 --> 00:34:33,520
Speaker 4: Wildflower session, he produced the Last Poets and also Olu

602
00:34:33,640 --> 00:34:36,719
Speaker 4: Dara and so we were all in a lot of

603
00:34:36,719 --> 00:34:39,400
Speaker 4: people that was in the Wildflowers. They put a band

604
00:34:39,400 --> 00:34:42,680
Speaker 4: together and we we man we were in the studio

605
00:34:42,800 --> 00:34:45,120
Speaker 4: for it seemed like months, and we got we got

606
00:34:45,160 --> 00:34:47,840
Speaker 4: paid some good money during that time. I mean it was.

607
00:34:48,040 --> 00:34:51,120
Speaker 4: It wouldn't be good money now. But we were in

608
00:34:51,160 --> 00:34:54,400
Speaker 4: the studio for a long time, and O Lou was

609
00:34:54,400 --> 00:34:57,400
Speaker 4: so brillan he kept us in the studio and the

610
00:34:57,440 --> 00:35:00,719
Speaker 4: record never did come out. Man, I mean we must

611
00:35:00,760 --> 00:35:03,600
Speaker 4: have been in there for months. I mean, and so

612
00:35:03,719 --> 00:35:06,120
Speaker 4: in my head I said, oh, louis a cat because

613
00:35:06,120 --> 00:35:09,640
Speaker 4: he knows how to run these cats, and he did.

614
00:35:10,239 --> 00:35:12,120
Speaker 4: I mean, we were in the studio for months after

615
00:35:12,160 --> 00:35:16,960
Speaker 4: the Wildflowers and the record never did come out. They

616
00:35:17,000 --> 00:35:20,319
Speaker 4: even had Stanley trying to produce. It didn't even come out.

617
00:35:21,320 --> 00:35:22,759
Speaker 5: So somewhere on this there's something.

618
00:35:22,880 --> 00:35:25,520
Speaker 4: They exist some great things. I had a couple of songs.

619
00:35:25,840 --> 00:35:27,400
Speaker 4: I had one tune in the last of the hit

620
00:35:27,480 --> 00:35:30,720
Speaker 4: Man that they wanted to use, and then they played

621
00:35:30,719 --> 00:35:32,839
Speaker 4: the hell out it. We even had Bernard Party come

622
00:35:32,880 --> 00:35:35,000
Speaker 4: in there for a while, a lot of people, you know,

623
00:35:35,160 --> 00:35:37,880
Speaker 4: a lot of people. They tried different drummers, because I

624
00:35:37,920 --> 00:35:41,240
Speaker 4: don't know, they tried a lot of different musicians. Probably

625
00:35:41,400 --> 00:35:45,320
Speaker 4: forty musicians played on that. On that it must have

626
00:35:45,400 --> 00:35:46,720
Speaker 4: went off for six months.

627
00:35:46,960 --> 00:35:50,560
Speaker 5: If only there was a jazz label to I'm on it.

628
00:35:51,200 --> 00:35:53,120
Speaker 5: You're literally on it. What year was that.

629
00:35:54,480 --> 00:35:58,799
Speaker 4: Well, just just track where Wildflowers came out. That must

630
00:35:58,840 --> 00:36:02,560
Speaker 4: have been in our seventy oh, seventy seven, seventy, I

631
00:36:02,560 --> 00:36:06,400
Speaker 4: don't know. You look it up for listeners out there.

632
00:36:06,480 --> 00:36:08,840
Speaker 5: Yeah, Oli dars uh his father.

633
00:36:09,480 --> 00:36:11,759
Speaker 9: Yes's him playing on Life's Bitch. That's him playing the

634
00:36:12,200 --> 00:36:12,920
Speaker 9: trumpet solo.

635
00:36:13,360 --> 00:36:15,480
Speaker 4: O Lou was great man, he was. He played my

636
00:36:15,520 --> 00:36:17,680
Speaker 4: octet and I mean I played in a couple of

637
00:36:17,760 --> 00:36:21,640
Speaker 4: his bands, his Okra Orchestra. You remember when he used

638
00:36:21,680 --> 00:36:24,759
Speaker 4: to throw out Okra. We had a bag for the

639
00:36:24,840 --> 00:36:27,200
Speaker 4: Okra and he would throw it out in the audience.

640
00:36:28,120 --> 00:36:32,080
Speaker 5: Okra Okra. Wow, that's an angle. I never once thought

641
00:36:32,080 --> 00:36:32,960
Speaker 5: of what's the reason that.

642
00:36:33,320 --> 00:36:35,240
Speaker 4: Well, his name of the band was Okra Orchestra.

643
00:36:37,640 --> 00:36:41,440
Speaker 3: There you go for the cats that you've played with,

644
00:36:41,640 --> 00:36:45,440
Speaker 3: and I've seen him, you know, Butch Marris, Reggie Workman,

645
00:36:46,320 --> 00:36:49,960
Speaker 3: like all these cats that you've played with. What is

646
00:36:50,000 --> 00:36:55,520
Speaker 3: a good living for a working jazz musician in the eighties,

647
00:36:55,560 --> 00:36:58,160
Speaker 3: Like is the is the purpose to find a unit

648
00:36:59,120 --> 00:37:04,040
Speaker 3: that will be hopefully picked up to tour the European circuit?

649
00:37:04,040 --> 00:37:08,160
Speaker 3: Because I would imagine that between May and say August,

650
00:37:08,800 --> 00:37:10,960
Speaker 3: if you're a jazz musician.

651
00:37:11,160 --> 00:37:13,960
Speaker 5: You're going to spend your summer in Europe.

652
00:37:14,160 --> 00:37:16,160
Speaker 4: Well, I have to go back to the eighties to

653
00:37:16,160 --> 00:37:19,520
Speaker 4: ance or that, because because during the eighties everything was cash.

654
00:37:19,600 --> 00:37:23,160
Speaker 4: It was different. See it was cash, you know. I

655
00:37:23,160 --> 00:37:29,080
Speaker 4: mean what I did in the eighties was to have

656
00:37:29,160 --> 00:37:33,520
Speaker 4: my octet and my quartet and sometimes big band and

657
00:37:33,560 --> 00:37:39,239
Speaker 4: the world saxophone quartet. To joggle all those together. I

658
00:37:39,239 --> 00:37:41,319
Speaker 4: would go to Europe. For instance, I could have a

659
00:37:41,360 --> 00:37:45,680
Speaker 4: promoter in Scandinavia over to handle Scandinavia. I had a

660
00:37:45,719 --> 00:37:48,480
Speaker 4: guy in France that did all of France I had.

661
00:37:49,120 --> 00:37:53,920
Speaker 4: I had Archie is called Archie in Italy, and I

662
00:37:54,160 --> 00:37:56,960
Speaker 4: give them all two weeks, two weeks here, two weeks here,

663
00:37:57,040 --> 00:38:00,479
Speaker 4: a week here, bab and I just say, look, man,

664
00:38:00,560 --> 00:38:03,359
Speaker 4: you know I need blah blah blah such and such

665
00:38:03,440 --> 00:38:06,240
Speaker 4: for for my band. I got to pay my band

666
00:38:06,640 --> 00:38:11,160
Speaker 4: X amount thousands a week, and I just, man, it

667
00:38:11,239 --> 00:38:13,319
Speaker 4: was a different Now it's not like this now. This

668
00:38:13,440 --> 00:38:17,799
Speaker 4: one I was doing between myself and Coulan Mango, we

669
00:38:17,920 --> 00:38:21,520
Speaker 4: covered a lot of territory and h we paid a

670
00:38:21,560 --> 00:38:25,439
Speaker 4: lot of people. That's what I can say. It was extraordinary.

671
00:38:25,920 --> 00:38:29,680
Speaker 4: Sometimes we go to a country we do six weeks

672
00:38:29,800 --> 00:38:32,480
Speaker 4: in Europe, we come back and go into a major

673
00:38:32,520 --> 00:38:34,320
Speaker 4: club for a week, and then at the end of

674
00:38:34,320 --> 00:38:37,960
Speaker 4: the week we're in the studio. So, uh, people like

675
00:38:38,040 --> 00:38:40,640
Speaker 4: Reggie Work when you mentioned Reggie Work, when this is

676
00:38:40,680 --> 00:38:44,359
Speaker 4: a this is a great bass player who he's always there,

677
00:38:44,440 --> 00:38:49,600
Speaker 4: he's he's he's hardware. His name suits him because he's

678
00:38:49,640 --> 00:38:52,520
Speaker 4: a real work man, you know. Uh, you could depend

679
00:38:52,560 --> 00:38:55,719
Speaker 4: on him. Then there was doctor art Davis, you know,

680
00:38:55,960 --> 00:38:58,880
Speaker 4: great bass player, doctor Artie. He was one of the

681
00:38:58,920 --> 00:39:01,799
Speaker 4: cats that didn't didn't want to use an AMP. He's

682
00:39:01,840 --> 00:39:04,960
Speaker 4: from the old school because he could play. Yeah, yeah,

683
00:39:05,280 --> 00:39:08,399
Speaker 4: you could still hear him right and then and then

684
00:39:08,440 --> 00:39:10,759
Speaker 4: the word was out that cats have to start using

685
00:39:11,200 --> 00:39:13,080
Speaker 4: playing with the amp, you know. And so he was

686
00:39:13,120 --> 00:39:15,400
Speaker 4: one of the ones that resisted a long time. And

687
00:39:16,520 --> 00:39:19,319
Speaker 4: I remember going to his house up in Crowton, New York,

688
00:39:19,400 --> 00:39:23,640
Speaker 4: and his wife was working at a hospital, psychiatric hospital,

689
00:39:23,640 --> 00:39:26,799
Speaker 4: and he started working there too, and she wanted me

690
00:39:27,080 --> 00:39:29,879
Speaker 4: to give him a salary. It was like she thought,

691
00:39:29,960 --> 00:39:31,840
Speaker 4: I don't know what she thought. I was John Coacha

692
00:39:31,880 --> 00:39:34,120
Speaker 4: and so I don't know what she thought. I was, well,

693
00:39:34,160 --> 00:39:37,720
Speaker 4: you got to pay my husband extra month thousand dollars

694
00:39:37,760 --> 00:39:40,839
Speaker 4: a year, and I want to see it. His kids

695
00:39:40,880 --> 00:39:43,120
Speaker 4: got to see him go to work every day like that,

696
00:39:43,200 --> 00:39:46,840
Speaker 4: and I'm like, oh, and it was a higher amount,

697
00:39:47,280 --> 00:39:49,479
Speaker 4: And I don't know. I didn't know if I could

698
00:39:49,480 --> 00:39:52,719
Speaker 4: do that. That's why he'd enjoyed my band. I mean,

699
00:39:52,760 --> 00:39:55,279
Speaker 4: he played in my band, But I mean maybe I

700
00:39:55,280 --> 00:39:56,920
Speaker 4: could have paid him that, but I didn't add it

701
00:39:56,960 --> 00:39:58,480
Speaker 4: all up. I didn't know if I could do it,

702
00:39:58,520 --> 00:40:01,040
Speaker 4: if I could make that or not. You know, people

703
00:40:01,160 --> 00:40:03,839
Speaker 4: have demands that they put on me once they see

704
00:40:03,880 --> 00:40:05,640
Speaker 4: my name in the paper, and this and that, And

705
00:40:06,560 --> 00:40:09,080
Speaker 4: I wasn't ready for all that, to tell you the truth,

706
00:40:09,120 --> 00:40:11,680
Speaker 4: I was just like, you know, trying to trying to

707
00:40:11,719 --> 00:40:13,560
Speaker 4: make the ends meet and myself.

708
00:40:14,200 --> 00:40:17,600
Speaker 3: How taxing is it because of your level of creativity,

709
00:40:18,400 --> 00:40:22,200
Speaker 3: which I assume you know, if you're not familiar to people,

710
00:40:22,280 --> 00:40:25,200
Speaker 3: if you ever see David Murray's name in your town

711
00:40:25,320 --> 00:40:29,480
Speaker 3: or in your country, whatever, please like go see this

712
00:40:29,600 --> 00:40:33,200
Speaker 3: legend perform. But you know, I also know that for

713
00:40:33,280 --> 00:40:37,960
Speaker 3: the decades I've known you, you've always led projects. You know,

714
00:40:38,239 --> 00:40:43,919
Speaker 3: You've led your owned trio, quintet, whatever, your orchestra, world tech.

715
00:40:44,480 --> 00:40:50,200
Speaker 3: How taxing is it to be the business guy, to

716
00:40:50,280 --> 00:40:54,960
Speaker 3: be the responsible guy for your band, to organize things

717
00:40:55,000 --> 00:40:57,720
Speaker 3: like make sure your guys can sleep somewhere, eat somewhere,

718
00:40:57,840 --> 00:41:01,200
Speaker 3: that sort of thing they're for diem and on top

719
00:41:01,280 --> 00:41:06,240
Speaker 3: of that, be in a mind space that you're still creating.

720
00:41:06,920 --> 00:41:09,239
Speaker 4: Well, I don't do that anymore. I mean that was

721
00:41:09,440 --> 00:41:13,239
Speaker 4: used to do it. I used I used to do it.

722
00:41:13,239 --> 00:41:16,120
Speaker 4: It was difficult, but you know, I spent a lot

723
00:41:16,120 --> 00:41:19,160
Speaker 4: of time in bars. I don't know how I did it.

724
00:41:19,200 --> 00:41:23,520
Speaker 4: I guess having that youthful energy helped. Being able to

725
00:41:23,520 --> 00:41:27,480
Speaker 4: talk a whole bunch of crap was, you know. And

726
00:41:27,520 --> 00:41:30,880
Speaker 4: the whole other thing was I always in terms of

727
00:41:30,960 --> 00:41:35,000
Speaker 4: records and recordings, I always had to make whoever was

728
00:41:35,200 --> 00:41:37,160
Speaker 4: the small company that was going to make a record

729
00:41:37,160 --> 00:41:39,680
Speaker 4: for me. I always used to have to make him

730
00:41:39,719 --> 00:41:42,799
Speaker 4: think it was their idea and then they would do it.

731
00:41:44,840 --> 00:41:47,920
Speaker 5: You remember that time we were gonna do the Plumb

732
00:41:48,560 --> 00:41:49,280
Speaker 5: sequel record.

733
00:41:51,080 --> 00:41:55,799
Speaker 3: That was my idea, right, Well, yeah, it's because I

734
00:41:55,840 --> 00:41:59,280
Speaker 3: asked that simply because, like if you've seen Quincy Jones

735
00:41:59,400 --> 00:42:03,600
Speaker 3: Is Listen Up documentary, the thing that actually led him

736
00:42:03,640 --> 00:42:06,280
Speaker 3: to pop music was the fact that.

737
00:42:06,960 --> 00:42:10,040
Speaker 5: You know, one bad tour.

738
00:42:10,360 --> 00:42:14,919
Speaker 3: One mismanaged tour could almost put you in a position where,

739
00:42:15,000 --> 00:42:18,239
Speaker 3: you know, he was getting aneurysms because he realized that

740
00:42:18,840 --> 00:42:23,480
Speaker 3: he was responsible for, you know, the orchestra thirty people

741
00:42:23,840 --> 00:42:27,360
Speaker 3: and show me about it didn't figure in hotels and

742
00:42:27,440 --> 00:42:29,879
Speaker 3: flights and all those things, and he had to get

743
00:42:29,880 --> 00:42:31,160
Speaker 3: a day job as an an r.

744
00:42:31,640 --> 00:42:35,080
Speaker 4: Believe me, I understand, and I did see it. I

745
00:42:35,160 --> 00:42:37,920
Speaker 4: understand that one time we went on a tour. We

746
00:42:37,960 --> 00:42:42,160
Speaker 4: went out west, we went to Chicago, we played Chicago Fest. Cooney,

747
00:42:42,480 --> 00:42:44,640
Speaker 4: my manager at the time, he got ripped off at

748
00:42:44,640 --> 00:42:48,080
Speaker 4: the hotel the chain Mays ripped him off some of

749
00:42:48,160 --> 00:42:51,000
Speaker 4: the band's money and we were on our way out

750
00:42:51,040 --> 00:42:53,040
Speaker 4: to Denver to play at the Blue Note, and then

751
00:42:53,719 --> 00:42:55,799
Speaker 4: then they canceled on the way out there. We ended

752
00:42:55,880 --> 00:42:58,800
Speaker 4: up playing at that Tabuddhist place out there in Denver,

753
00:42:59,360 --> 00:43:03,239
Speaker 4: the guy at Peace Church in New York on Ninth

754
00:43:03,280 --> 00:43:07,120
Speaker 4: Street and second Hofurn. No, no, no, it was a

755
00:43:07,440 --> 00:43:08,520
Speaker 4: it was a Buddhist place.

756
00:43:09,560 --> 00:43:11,560
Speaker 5: It's a it's a real father.

757
00:43:12,680 --> 00:43:15,439
Speaker 4: No, no, it was. It was a Buddhist It wasn't.

758
00:43:15,640 --> 00:43:19,719
Speaker 4: Oh okay, it's actually a famous place. It's in Colorado,

759
00:43:20,120 --> 00:43:23,960
Speaker 4: in Colorado. Yeah, Anyway, we swung around and we went

760
00:43:24,000 --> 00:43:26,720
Speaker 4: to California. We came back around Texas and we played

761
00:43:26,760 --> 00:43:30,400
Speaker 4: at the place on that was associated in Dallas Fort Worth,

762
00:43:30,920 --> 00:43:32,520
Speaker 4: and then we came to New York. When I got

763
00:43:32,520 --> 00:43:37,320
Speaker 4: back to New York, oh, the band fifteen thousand dollars.

764
00:43:38,280 --> 00:43:40,720
Speaker 4: And during that time, I was like, you know, some money,

765
00:43:40,760 --> 00:43:43,760
Speaker 4: and so I had the Monday nights at the Sweet Basil.

766
00:43:44,520 --> 00:43:47,120
Speaker 4: So I was paying the cast on the back door

767
00:43:47,520 --> 00:43:51,040
Speaker 4: from the tour and the cast on the stage I

768
00:43:51,120 --> 00:43:55,920
Speaker 4: was juggling. It was yeah, it was pay par and

769
00:43:55,920 --> 00:43:58,279
Speaker 4: I finally got it off me, you know, because I

770
00:43:58,280 --> 00:44:02,359
Speaker 4: couldn't have that reputation. I mean, I mean we could

771
00:44:02,400 --> 00:44:04,200
Speaker 4: blame some of that on those chamber made at the

772
00:44:04,239 --> 00:44:05,800
Speaker 4: Blackstone Hotel in Chicago.

773
00:44:07,800 --> 00:44:08,040
Speaker 3: Yeah.

774
00:44:08,120 --> 00:44:10,759
Speaker 4: It's rough, man, I mean, it wasn't easy to doing

775
00:44:10,800 --> 00:44:15,759
Speaker 4: all that. But now I have help. You know, my wife, Francesca,

776
00:44:16,160 --> 00:44:19,879
Speaker 4: she's been very helpful over the of these last few years.

777
00:44:19,920 --> 00:44:25,800
Speaker 4: Tomorrow's our anniversary for the project, right, yeah. Yeah, So

778
00:44:26,320 --> 00:44:29,080
Speaker 4: now she does a lot of my business, and she

779
00:44:29,160 --> 00:44:32,040
Speaker 4: doesn't want to because she has her own tie business

780
00:44:32,080 --> 00:44:36,319
Speaker 4: going on. And it's starting to pick up, and I'm

781
00:44:36,360 --> 00:44:40,080
Speaker 4: gonna have to find some some new agencies, bigger agencies

782
00:44:40,120 --> 00:44:43,640
Speaker 4: to deal with, so we could kind of manage it

783
00:44:43,680 --> 00:44:46,799
Speaker 4: a lot better, you know. But as time goes on,

784
00:44:48,160 --> 00:44:50,319
Speaker 4: hopefully it to get easier and easier, so I could

785
00:44:50,400 --> 00:44:52,320
Speaker 4: just relax and deal with music.

786
00:44:53,280 --> 00:44:59,520
Speaker 3: So what's the climate now for the jazz musician again?

787
00:45:00,360 --> 00:45:04,880
Speaker 3: Living in Europe in the early nineties, jazz music everywhere,

788
00:45:05,000 --> 00:45:08,920
Speaker 3: Like the roots, ourselves were essentially just jazz musicians. We

789
00:45:09,000 --> 00:45:12,439
Speaker 3: were doing all those festivals. Would we've done a lot

790
00:45:12,480 --> 00:45:12,719
Speaker 3: with you?

791
00:45:13,320 --> 00:45:13,800
Speaker 5: However?

792
00:45:13,960 --> 00:45:18,479
Speaker 3: You know, I know time moves on, and when time

793
00:45:18,560 --> 00:45:22,600
Speaker 3: moves on, something might get lost in the rear view mirror.

794
00:45:22,880 --> 00:45:25,000
Speaker 4: So what I would like to do now is more

795
00:45:25,120 --> 00:45:30,040
Speaker 4: or less, do less but more substantial gigs and have

796
00:45:30,239 --> 00:45:33,480
Speaker 4: time in between. I don't really want to do the

797
00:45:33,520 --> 00:45:38,040
Speaker 4: twenty six nights out of thirty. If I could help it,

798
00:45:38,719 --> 00:45:42,520
Speaker 4: of course I will if I must, But I'd like

799
00:45:42,600 --> 00:45:47,120
Speaker 4: to have the luxury of being able to play somewhere

800
00:45:47,120 --> 00:45:50,160
Speaker 4: at the Nice festival, wait a couple of days and

801
00:45:50,640 --> 00:45:54,040
Speaker 4: three days and then play at another one and move

802
00:45:54,120 --> 00:45:59,399
Speaker 4: around a little easier. But you know, sometimes the demands

803
00:46:00,200 --> 00:46:04,000
Speaker 4: changed that idea. I don't need all the gigs. There's

804
00:46:04,080 --> 00:46:06,600
Speaker 4: gigs that I come to me that I kind of

805
00:46:06,640 --> 00:46:10,160
Speaker 4: pass off to other people and said, yeah, Well, one

806
00:46:10,200 --> 00:46:12,879
Speaker 4: time I did a I had an article came out

807
00:46:12,880 --> 00:46:14,960
Speaker 4: in one of the papers, Times or something. They said

808
00:46:15,200 --> 00:46:19,120
Speaker 4: big fish in small pond. You know when those you

809
00:46:19,440 --> 00:46:21,560
Speaker 4: get those kind of articles, it just makes you say, well,

810
00:46:21,560 --> 00:46:23,879
Speaker 4: what am I doing? I mean, one time I seen

811
00:46:23,880 --> 00:46:26,680
Speaker 4: a picture of myself and I had I had this

812
00:46:26,840 --> 00:46:30,600
Speaker 4: triple breasted suit, you know, and finally finally the lapels

813
00:46:30,719 --> 00:46:34,520
Speaker 4: is pointing at the camera and I said, is you're

814
00:46:34,560 --> 00:46:37,920
Speaker 4: working too hard? Man? I had to see that picture

815
00:46:38,040 --> 00:46:41,880
Speaker 4: to understand that I was just straining myself. I'm blowing

816
00:46:41,960 --> 00:46:45,960
Speaker 4: hard every night and see James. But Oltma told me, says,

817
00:46:46,040 --> 00:46:48,560
Speaker 4: you know, David, you know there's a lot of cats

818
00:46:48,560 --> 00:46:51,160
Speaker 4: playing saxophone out here, but you might be the one

819
00:46:51,160 --> 00:46:54,080
Speaker 4: of the only ones that is free. And that's what

820
00:46:54,120 --> 00:46:56,680
Speaker 4: I want. I just want to be free. I want

821
00:46:56,719 --> 00:46:59,759
Speaker 4: to be free in my music. I don't want to

822
00:46:59,760 --> 00:47:01,480
Speaker 4: be a B bop player. I don't want to be

823
00:47:01,560 --> 00:47:04,640
Speaker 4: an avant garde. I want to be free on any music.

824
00:47:04,680 --> 00:47:07,040
Speaker 4: Did I play at least for you?

825
00:47:07,280 --> 00:47:10,880
Speaker 5: Uh? Where you are now? What's the easiest lane for you?

826
00:47:11,280 --> 00:47:14,680
Speaker 3: And I'm asking in terms of I would assume that

827
00:47:14,880 --> 00:47:18,799
Speaker 3: if you're doing bop that it's more about your your

828
00:47:18,840 --> 00:47:19,680
Speaker 3: scale knowledge.

829
00:47:20,440 --> 00:47:23,840
Speaker 5: But when you're doing your free jazz.

830
00:47:24,000 --> 00:47:29,200
Speaker 3: Like you, your physical stamina has to be I assuming tip

831
00:47:29,200 --> 00:47:31,560
Speaker 3: top shape because you're blowing the ship out that horn.

832
00:47:31,800 --> 00:47:35,799
Speaker 4: So for me, the most challenging thing is to have

833
00:47:36,440 --> 00:47:40,960
Speaker 4: is to play freedom on top of everything, with everything

834
00:47:41,200 --> 00:47:44,440
Speaker 4: and be part. If I'm playing bebop, I want to

835
00:47:44,440 --> 00:47:46,560
Speaker 4: play bebop and I want to be in it and

836
00:47:46,600 --> 00:47:48,480
Speaker 4: I want to be above it at the same time.

837
00:47:48,960 --> 00:47:50,960
Speaker 4: What if if I play with Bob wid the other

838
00:47:51,080 --> 00:47:55,920
Speaker 4: night at the Apollow John Mala Dean and that was

839
00:47:55,960 --> 00:48:02,399
Speaker 4: a wonderful yeah, yeah yeah, and that benefit they had

840
00:48:02,440 --> 00:48:05,880
Speaker 4: the other day, it was a wonderful show. But I

841
00:48:06,000 --> 00:48:09,280
Speaker 4: pride myself in bringing freedom into any kind of music.

842
00:48:10,120 --> 00:48:13,040
Speaker 4: When I played in church, I was free. I got

843
00:48:13,080 --> 00:48:15,280
Speaker 4: it to the point where nobody cared after a while

844
00:48:15,280 --> 00:48:17,920
Speaker 4: because they liked what I was playing. I think every

845
00:48:18,000 --> 00:48:22,000
Speaker 4: music has its difficulties. I love be about music. My

846
00:48:22,160 --> 00:48:25,239
Speaker 4: special gift is to be able to play any kind

847
00:48:25,239 --> 00:48:28,359
Speaker 4: of music, because the more music that you learn how

848
00:48:28,400 --> 00:48:31,880
Speaker 4: to play, the more people can play with. When I

849
00:48:31,960 --> 00:48:35,160
Speaker 4: did the nat King Cole and Espanol and we played

850
00:48:35,200 --> 00:48:38,759
Speaker 4: at the Salle play L in Paris with Omarra Patundo

851
00:48:39,239 --> 00:48:43,799
Speaker 4: and I wrote string arrangements, had ten strings, twelve strings

852
00:48:44,640 --> 00:48:48,440
Speaker 4: and a five piece horn section and Omara Patuna man.

853
00:48:48,480 --> 00:48:52,319
Speaker 4: When we finished that show was ready to go to Vegas.

854
00:48:52,640 --> 00:48:57,279
Speaker 4: That was probably as commercial as I could probably ever be.

855
00:48:57,719 --> 00:49:01,400
Speaker 4: But at the same time, I'm playing freedom and see

856
00:49:01,400 --> 00:49:05,160
Speaker 4: that's what's special about me, and I've been criticized for it,

857
00:49:05,560 --> 00:49:09,239
Speaker 4: but that is my cradle. I want freedom in everything

858
00:49:09,320 --> 00:49:09,560
Speaker 4: I do.

859
00:49:14,239 --> 00:49:18,160
Speaker 8: I think our listeners might be curious about the Philadelphia halfway.

860
00:49:18,160 --> 00:49:20,759
Speaker 5: Oldelphi appearance of Dave Murray Inn.

861
00:49:21,560 --> 00:49:24,200
Speaker 3: We were trying to figure out if we were going

862
00:49:24,280 --> 00:49:27,799
Speaker 3: to make a say what Man a running joke on

863
00:49:27,920 --> 00:49:31,120
Speaker 3: every roots album, But for the first four years, like

864
00:49:31,160 --> 00:49:34,960
Speaker 3: the idea of Tariq freestyling and scatting to each instrument

865
00:49:35,040 --> 00:49:38,040
Speaker 3: on stage was like one of our ways to pass

866
00:49:38,080 --> 00:49:40,200
Speaker 3: the time on you know, all right, we got three

867
00:49:40,239 --> 00:49:42,160
Speaker 3: hours to do a showy man.

868
00:49:42,680 --> 00:49:44,040
Speaker 5: Well no, no, no, I'm just saying that.

869
00:49:44,200 --> 00:49:47,400
Speaker 3: We you know, we did it on Organics and then

870
00:49:47,440 --> 00:49:49,920
Speaker 3: we did it on Do You Want More? And Richard

871
00:49:49,960 --> 00:49:51,920
Speaker 3: was like, well, let's do it on Ihiladelph Half Life.

872
00:49:52,000 --> 00:49:55,480
Speaker 3: So we were doing it, but you know, Dreek was

873
00:49:55,600 --> 00:50:00,279
Speaker 3: kind of in his rebellious stance of hey, all that

874
00:50:00,360 --> 00:50:02,680
Speaker 3: jazzy stuff is now in the rearview mirror, like I

875
00:50:02,719 --> 00:50:06,319
Speaker 3: gotta I gotta earn five mics in the source and

876
00:50:06,400 --> 00:50:09,799
Speaker 3: this ain't it. So we tried and then it just

877
00:50:10,040 --> 00:50:11,640
Speaker 3: fell kind of fell apart.

878
00:50:11,800 --> 00:50:13,040
Speaker 5: But so weird.

879
00:50:13,080 --> 00:50:15,799
Speaker 3: Like you, you've done so many gigs, something that might

880
00:50:15,840 --> 00:50:19,319
Speaker 3: mean something to me, you might forget about. But one

881
00:50:19,360 --> 00:50:22,120
Speaker 3: of our first years at the Tonight Show, I remember

882
00:50:23,200 --> 00:50:30,200
Speaker 3: we did a gig you me furnon Reid Ornette Coleman.

883
00:50:31,440 --> 00:50:38,400
Speaker 3: Uh no, no, no, we we flew to uh London.

884
00:50:38,680 --> 00:50:43,359
Speaker 4: Oh right, yeah that when they did that festival they yok,

885
00:50:43,960 --> 00:50:50,080
Speaker 4: was like the jazz madness.

886
00:50:50,120 --> 00:50:53,799
Speaker 3: All I remember was that this was like maybe the

887
00:50:53,840 --> 00:50:57,040
Speaker 3: fourth month of Fallon and it was a Friday show.

888
00:50:57,239 --> 00:50:59,920
Speaker 3: We did the last of the note and we didn't

889
00:51:00,080 --> 00:51:02,280
Speaker 3: have time to like even run and change our clothes.

890
00:51:02,320 --> 00:51:04,760
Speaker 3: Like we run straight to the airport in our show clothes.

891
00:51:04,880 --> 00:51:07,319
Speaker 3: That's right, I remember, got off the plane in our

892
00:51:07,360 --> 00:51:10,520
Speaker 3: show clothes, went through customs, waited an hour for them

893
00:51:10,520 --> 00:51:14,440
Speaker 3: to damn near antal probus and then go straight to

894
00:51:14,480 --> 00:51:18,799
Speaker 3: the venue and rehearse like three hours or so. For you, though,

895
00:51:18,800 --> 00:51:21,560
Speaker 3: can you talk about playing with or Nott Coleman, Because

896
00:51:21,600 --> 00:51:23,319
Speaker 3: I kept asking at the time, like are we going

897
00:51:23,360 --> 00:51:25,960
Speaker 3: to rehearse with him or we just play?

898
00:51:26,080 --> 00:51:28,160
Speaker 5: He's like, no, man, we just play what we feel.

899
00:51:28,520 --> 00:51:32,040
Speaker 4: Yeah, I remember because when on This showed up and

900
00:51:32,280 --> 00:51:34,759
Speaker 4: we were doing we were doing like a sound check,

901
00:51:34,800 --> 00:51:36,840
Speaker 4: I guess, and on it he didn't want to do

902
00:51:36,840 --> 00:51:39,319
Speaker 4: the sound check, so he had me check his mic,

903
00:51:40,200 --> 00:51:41,960
Speaker 4: and so he gave me a listener right there while

904
00:51:42,080 --> 00:51:45,160
Speaker 4: checking his mic because he had a very particular way

905
00:51:45,200 --> 00:51:48,080
Speaker 4: he wanted to shrill us up his horn to come out.

906
00:51:48,280 --> 00:51:51,239
Speaker 4: He says, yeah, do your saxophone like that. I said, no,

907
00:51:51,320 --> 00:51:53,600
Speaker 4: that's okay on that. But I got it though, I

908
00:51:53,640 --> 00:51:57,520
Speaker 4: got it. I got it because I was always friends

909
00:51:57,560 --> 00:52:01,600
Speaker 4: with on that and he cared for me, you know,

910
00:52:01,920 --> 00:52:05,720
Speaker 4: because I knew Bobby Bradford of course, and Charles Moffatt,

911
00:52:06,160 --> 00:52:10,720
Speaker 4: you know, they all go back to Fort Worth. But yeah,

912
00:52:11,239 --> 00:52:13,520
Speaker 4: Arnett didn't need to be hers because that's going to

913
00:52:13,600 --> 00:52:18,440
Speaker 4: play on that, dependent on whatever anybody else is doing,

914
00:52:18,480 --> 00:52:22,520
Speaker 4: He's gonna he's gonna be pure on that if he's

915
00:52:22,560 --> 00:52:25,480
Speaker 4: playing with thirteen Whales, it's gonna be pure on that.

916
00:52:26,480 --> 00:52:30,200
Speaker 3: When I was sort of shedding heavy with Chris McBride

917
00:52:30,200 --> 00:52:36,640
Speaker 3: and some George Butler esque uh George projects, they told

918
00:52:36,680 --> 00:52:40,319
Speaker 3: me to getting to Andrew Cyril Rich actually gave me

919
00:52:40,320 --> 00:52:43,280
Speaker 3: the record the Shaquille's Warrior album.

920
00:52:43,400 --> 00:52:45,399
Speaker 5: Could you talk about the.

921
00:52:45,400 --> 00:52:48,160
Speaker 3: Migenn of that record, because that was one of the

922
00:52:48,200 --> 00:52:52,000
Speaker 3: first records that Rich was like, study this record and.

923
00:52:52,080 --> 00:52:55,440
Speaker 4: Or Shaquille was one or two? That's two, the one

924
00:52:55,480 --> 00:52:58,040
Speaker 4: that came out in ninety one. Okay, that must have

925
00:52:58,080 --> 00:53:02,719
Speaker 4: been one. Yeah, okay, well that's when when Don we

926
00:53:02,880 --> 00:53:10,040
Speaker 4: had yeah and Sam Frank's guitar. These were my childhood friends.

927
00:53:10,160 --> 00:53:12,200
Speaker 4: We used to be with the notations of Soul when

928
00:53:12,239 --> 00:53:15,880
Speaker 4: I was growing up in the Bay Area. Yeah. We

929
00:53:15,960 --> 00:53:18,319
Speaker 4: used to back up a lot of different groups, you know,

930
00:53:18,760 --> 00:53:24,200
Speaker 4: Barbara Treegler and the Numnics, different people, R and B. Yeah,

931
00:53:24,239 --> 00:53:28,480
Speaker 4: So playing with Don because I had done on piano,

932
00:53:28,840 --> 00:53:32,800
Speaker 4: but when I I didn't understand that he really it

933
00:53:33,400 --> 00:53:36,080
Speaker 4: wasn't revealed to me at that time that he played

934
00:53:36,160 --> 00:53:38,800
Speaker 4: organ like that. And you know, his experience in the

935
00:53:38,880 --> 00:53:42,239
Speaker 4: church is very similar to mine so much soul in

936
00:53:42,280 --> 00:53:45,239
Speaker 4: his organ playing. And I remember when we did the

937
00:53:45,360 --> 00:53:47,920
Speaker 4: we did the first album and it was quite successful

938
00:53:48,000 --> 00:53:51,239
Speaker 4: during that time because we were on the run. We

939
00:53:51,280 --> 00:53:55,879
Speaker 4: went to Japan. I remember they brought an organ. They

940
00:53:55,920 --> 00:53:58,319
Speaker 4: brought a hamm and B three, but it was it

941
00:53:58,360 --> 00:54:00,440
Speaker 4: was one of those very new kind and it came

942
00:54:00,480 --> 00:54:04,160
Speaker 4: with a big manual. We were sitting there at this

943
00:54:04,280 --> 00:54:07,920
Speaker 4: club in Tokyo and Don didn't even get up. Don

944
00:54:08,040 --> 00:54:11,200
Speaker 4: wouldn't even open the manual. He said, that organ, you

945
00:54:11,200 --> 00:54:15,200
Speaker 4: could take that back. He said, go get me one

946
00:54:15,239 --> 00:54:18,480
Speaker 4: with some cigarette burns on it and give me a

947
00:54:18,800 --> 00:54:22,680
Speaker 4: give yeah, give me a real hamm of organ. I'm

948
00:54:22,680 --> 00:54:26,440
Speaker 4: not gonna do that. That's all gadgets and stuff like that.

949
00:54:26,920 --> 00:54:30,080
Speaker 4: And so they finally bought one and we played six

950
00:54:30,200 --> 00:54:36,160
Speaker 4: nights at this club and it was wonderful and that

951
00:54:36,239 --> 00:54:39,000
Speaker 4: was a great experience. And when we did Shock Kills two,

952
00:54:39,920 --> 00:54:43,520
Speaker 4: that's when Don told me he was sick, and so

953
00:54:43,600 --> 00:54:46,200
Speaker 4: that was a different kind of date. But he waited.

954
00:54:46,520 --> 00:54:48,640
Speaker 4: Don was a kind of cat who would It was

955
00:54:48,680 --> 00:54:52,920
Speaker 4: always a wild card with Don. He would wait until

956
00:54:52,960 --> 00:54:55,240
Speaker 4: he got in the studio and start writing a tune.

957
00:54:55,960 --> 00:54:58,239
Speaker 4: And by the time the session was over That was

958
00:54:58,280 --> 00:55:01,920
Speaker 4: a hit tune. It was always the number one tune

959
00:55:02,719 --> 00:55:06,000
Speaker 4: uh he had, and it was a way the way

960
00:55:06,000 --> 00:55:09,600
Speaker 4: he dealt with things. Uh. Very private man, very very

961
00:55:09,719 --> 00:55:12,239
Speaker 4: deep reader. He's a real reader. I'm a reader too.

962
00:55:12,680 --> 00:55:15,279
Speaker 4: You know, you could in jazz musicians, we don't have

963
00:55:15,320 --> 00:55:18,080
Speaker 4: a lot of people to maybe readers, but but you could,

964
00:55:18,160 --> 00:55:21,600
Speaker 4: since when you were around these people, the conversations that

965
00:55:21,640 --> 00:55:25,399
Speaker 4: we had on the road, and very deep thinking person.

966
00:55:25,560 --> 00:55:30,520
Speaker 3: Reader in terms of philosophy or you're talking about notes, notating.

967
00:55:30,400 --> 00:55:33,440
Speaker 4: I'm talking about philosophilosophy in life, you know, just books

968
00:55:33,560 --> 00:55:36,040
Speaker 4: in general. I mean, I mean I tried to make

969
00:55:36,080 --> 00:55:38,759
Speaker 4: sure all of my children are readers, you know. I

970
00:55:38,800 --> 00:55:41,759
Speaker 4: mean you could tell a person who reads and the

971
00:55:41,800 --> 00:55:44,359
Speaker 4: person who doesn't read. I mean, you know, I mean

972
00:55:44,400 --> 00:55:47,799
Speaker 4: that's part of my growing up. I mean, I was

973
00:55:48,160 --> 00:55:50,600
Speaker 4: heavily influenced by a lot of writers. I wanted to

974
00:55:50,640 --> 00:55:51,800
Speaker 4: be a writer, like I said.

975
00:55:51,560 --> 00:55:55,399
Speaker 7: Before, highly educated too, you know, so it's important it's

976
00:55:55,400 --> 00:55:55,960
Speaker 7: important that.

977
00:55:56,160 --> 00:55:58,920
Speaker 4: But he was that kind of a person, and you

978
00:55:58,960 --> 00:56:02,400
Speaker 4: know John Hicks too. You know, when you're around people

979
00:56:02,480 --> 00:56:05,640
Speaker 4: like that, it just kind of inspires you to, uh

980
00:56:05,719 --> 00:56:08,279
Speaker 4: to know that you're on the right path. Perhaps. You know,

981
00:56:10,800 --> 00:56:12,880
Speaker 4: you have a complimense that you want to make that

982
00:56:12,960 --> 00:56:16,000
Speaker 4: are personal to you, and you have to keep your

983
00:56:16,040 --> 00:56:20,279
Speaker 4: mind filled with many things, you know. I mean like

984
00:56:20,320 --> 00:56:23,520
Speaker 4: I'm doing a blues project with Ishmael Reid, and that

985
00:56:23,680 --> 00:56:28,319
Speaker 4: keeps me a lot of times when I you know,

986
00:56:29,040 --> 00:56:31,080
Speaker 4: I always always go to him when I need some

987
00:56:31,160 --> 00:56:34,640
Speaker 4: inspiration in terms of words, and uh, you know, I

988
00:56:34,680 --> 00:56:37,439
Speaker 4: have my favorite writers and I constantly read.

989
00:56:38,080 --> 00:56:41,680
Speaker 9: You mentioned earlier you talked about sun Raw. He had

990
00:56:41,719 --> 00:56:45,919
Speaker 9: a singer that in his orchestra, June Tyson. Yeah, I knew, Yeah,

991
00:56:46,040 --> 00:56:46,879
Speaker 9: we talk about her.

992
00:56:46,920 --> 00:56:47,239
Speaker 4: She was.

993
00:56:47,280 --> 00:56:49,560
Speaker 5: I loved her voice, and she's like.

994
00:56:49,640 --> 00:56:52,640
Speaker 4: Oh, I used to love her. I loved her and

995
00:56:52,719 --> 00:56:55,879
Speaker 4: I loved her Space dancers too, because her to make

996
00:56:55,920 --> 00:57:03,600
Speaker 4: grossner you know, Mickey Davidson, Uh, Sheryl so wonderful people

997
00:57:03,640 --> 00:57:06,800
Speaker 4: around Sunnraw. I mean when I met Sunray, I was

998
00:57:06,840 --> 00:57:10,680
Speaker 4: out in California and they played at the Transitdental Meditation,

999
00:57:10,840 --> 00:57:13,840
Speaker 4: some kind of place on Telegraph Avenue, and he started

1000
00:57:13,880 --> 00:57:16,560
Speaker 4: talking to Butcher and I and we closed the joint.

1001
00:57:16,560 --> 00:57:19,640
Speaker 4: I mean it's three o'clock and everybody's left, and he's

1002
00:57:19,640 --> 00:57:22,160
Speaker 4: sitting there. He's sitting there just talking to me and

1003
00:57:22,240 --> 00:57:25,520
Speaker 4: Butch and just this philosophy. Do you just say much

1004
00:57:25,560 --> 00:57:29,880
Speaker 4: back to Sunrow you say yeah, yeah, oh yeah, right

1005
00:57:29,960 --> 00:57:32,439
Speaker 4: on words. You know they weren't even saying that then.

1006
00:57:32,560 --> 00:57:36,160
Speaker 4: But you know, I was like, wow, man, and he

1007
00:57:36,280 --> 00:57:39,400
Speaker 4: take you too many places. So he always hit on

1008
00:57:39,440 --> 00:57:41,040
Speaker 4: me to play in this band. I was like, what

1009
00:57:41,200 --> 00:57:43,880
Speaker 4: time he always hit on me. I was like, no, man,

1010
00:57:43,920 --> 00:57:46,360
Speaker 4: I got a family. Man, I can't.

1011
00:57:46,080 --> 00:57:47,320
Speaker 5: I can't trying to get paid.

1012
00:57:48,360 --> 00:57:50,680
Speaker 4: Yeah yeah, I mean, you know.

1013
00:57:50,760 --> 00:57:55,040
Speaker 3: If you can mention like what would have been a

1014
00:57:55,080 --> 00:57:58,200
Speaker 3: bad gig back in the day on that level, like

1015
00:57:58,320 --> 00:58:01,680
Speaker 3: now it's shaky. He doesn't pay as musicians, Oh.

1016
00:58:01,800 --> 00:58:06,120
Speaker 4: Oh bad gig. One of those gigs when nobody shows

1017
00:58:06,200 --> 00:58:09,919
Speaker 4: up doing loft jazz sometimes, you know, sometimes you would

1018
00:58:09,960 --> 00:58:13,800
Speaker 4: be very successful. Loft jazz was basically on the door.

1019
00:58:15,200 --> 00:58:19,360
Speaker 4: But when you were successful, yeah, because I used to.

1020
00:58:19,960 --> 00:58:22,280
Speaker 4: I used to have some skates, and I had a backpack,

1021
00:58:22,360 --> 00:58:25,720
Speaker 4: and I had a tape, and I had things that

1022
00:58:26,080 --> 00:58:29,560
Speaker 4: put posters up everywhere, and I got pretty good at it.

1023
00:58:29,600 --> 00:58:31,400
Speaker 4: If you got a voice, choice, you got a little thing,

1024
00:58:31,440 --> 00:58:33,800
Speaker 4: a little blurb in the times, you might have a

1025
00:58:34,080 --> 00:58:38,160
Speaker 4: packed house. So people started giving me their flyers, and

1026
00:58:39,200 --> 00:58:44,240
Speaker 4: I became an emissary for like you know, Loft Jazz

1027
00:58:44,640 --> 00:58:47,400
Speaker 4: and so. But a bad gig would have been when

1028
00:58:47,440 --> 00:58:52,200
Speaker 4: you didn't get a voice choice or something happened technical

1029
00:58:52,360 --> 00:58:55,080
Speaker 4: like that and you didn't get the publicity out. But

1030
00:58:55,120 --> 00:58:56,880
Speaker 4: most of the times when you did, you would get

1031
00:58:56,880 --> 00:58:59,640
Speaker 4: the returns. But every once in a while it would

1032
00:58:59,680 --> 00:59:00,560
Speaker 4: come up flat.

1033
00:59:00,880 --> 00:59:03,760
Speaker 5: Were you friends with Robert Christigo at the Voice?

1034
00:59:04,520 --> 00:59:07,960
Speaker 4: Not really? I knew him, he was, I knew him.

1035
00:59:08,040 --> 00:59:10,840
Speaker 5: A major fan of yours, Yes he was.

1036
00:59:10,960 --> 00:59:13,400
Speaker 4: No, Yes he was. I knew him, but I knew

1037
00:59:13,440 --> 00:59:16,640
Speaker 4: him mostly through Stanley and uh that was the guy

1038
00:59:16,640 --> 00:59:19,560
Speaker 4: at SO who News. There was nothing. There was other

1039
00:59:19,600 --> 00:59:23,360
Speaker 4: people that I knew very Chris Kyle was not in

1040
00:59:23,400 --> 00:59:25,800
Speaker 4: my generation, but but I knew him. Of course I

1041
00:59:25,840 --> 00:59:27,040
Speaker 4: knew him. I knew everything.

1042
00:59:27,040 --> 00:59:31,040
Speaker 3: Well, I'm obsessed with his writing as a critic, and

1043
00:59:31,280 --> 00:59:33,960
Speaker 3: you know pretty much all his choices on jazz or whatever,

1044
00:59:34,000 --> 00:59:35,479
Speaker 3: like you're always at the top of.

1045
00:59:35,400 --> 00:59:38,560
Speaker 5: His Yeah, I mean.

1046
00:59:39,800 --> 00:59:42,800
Speaker 4: Probably, and Gary Gettings too, I would, I would imagine,

1047
00:59:42,800 --> 00:59:44,640
Speaker 4: But Chris Kyle, no, he knew what he was doing.

1048
00:59:45,280 --> 00:59:45,520
Speaker 4: You know.

1049
00:59:45,640 --> 00:59:47,600
Speaker 5: Were there critics that irks you and.

1050
00:59:47,600 --> 00:59:50,720
Speaker 4: That was Peter Ochio girls from.

1051
00:59:50,560 --> 00:59:54,160
Speaker 5: The had receipts ready, and.

1052
00:59:54,080 --> 00:59:57,160
Speaker 4: Then then there was uh, you know the guy at

1053
00:59:57,160 --> 01:00:01,200
Speaker 4: the time, and so anyway, people come and people go.

1054
01:00:01,280 --> 01:00:03,560
Speaker 4: But I knew most of the critics. I may not

1055
01:00:03,600 --> 01:00:06,760
Speaker 4: can remember all their names. But you know, every once

1056
01:00:06,840 --> 01:00:08,880
Speaker 4: in a while you get blasted. I mean I did

1057
01:00:08,880 --> 01:00:12,280
Speaker 4: a couple of stream concerts. I got blasted a few times. Yeah,

1058
01:00:12,320 --> 01:00:14,840
Speaker 4: but it maybe go back and do a better job.

1059
01:00:14,960 --> 01:00:16,920
Speaker 3: David, we were talking about tunes before, like how much

1060
01:00:16,960 --> 01:00:20,280
Speaker 3: your day is spent actually playing and practicing versus sitting

1061
01:00:20,320 --> 01:00:22,520
Speaker 3: and writing composing.

1062
01:00:22,040 --> 01:00:24,080
Speaker 5: Like what's the how does that? How did you'd rather

1063
01:00:24,120 --> 01:00:26,960
Speaker 5: be practicing right now than talking to this man? Absolutely?

1064
01:00:27,000 --> 01:00:29,320
Speaker 1: But like because we were talking about like actual physical

1065
01:00:29,400 --> 01:00:32,040
Speaker 1: art of writing a tune versus just playing.

1066
01:00:32,120 --> 01:00:36,320
Speaker 4: Well, I'm kind of like, I guess I'm taking a

1067
01:00:36,320 --> 01:00:40,120
Speaker 4: break because I just made this album. And when I'm

1068
01:00:40,120 --> 01:00:44,480
Speaker 4: making an album, I usually come up with maybe twelve

1069
01:00:44,560 --> 01:00:47,440
Speaker 4: or thirteen songs, and I got to wheeled down to

1070
01:00:47,520 --> 01:00:52,720
Speaker 4: seven or eight maybe. So during COVID Man, I wrote

1071
01:00:52,760 --> 01:00:57,280
Speaker 4: so many tunes I throw them away like airplanes. But

1072
01:00:58,240 --> 01:01:00,320
Speaker 4: you know, it made no sense to write for big

1073
01:01:00,320 --> 01:01:03,440
Speaker 4: band during that time because we couldn't even get a

1074
01:01:03,480 --> 01:01:06,760
Speaker 4: trio on the stage. You know, I have a lot

1075
01:01:06,760 --> 01:01:11,280
Speaker 4: of big band music and orchestra music that I've written

1076
01:01:11,400 --> 01:01:15,840
Speaker 4: that there's no chance of playing it during this time.

1077
01:01:16,680 --> 01:01:19,840
Speaker 4: It would be great to have a resurgence of big bands.

1078
01:01:21,200 --> 01:01:25,439
Speaker 4: That would be fantastic. Those times are not I'm looking

1079
01:01:25,480 --> 01:01:27,040
Speaker 4: to get a court in on stage.

1080
01:01:27,080 --> 01:01:32,000
Speaker 3: You know you mentioned your desire to write. Do you

1081
01:01:32,800 --> 01:01:35,520
Speaker 3: have any of your things on manuscript or like? Have

1082
01:01:35,640 --> 01:01:41,000
Speaker 3: you written pieces writing in terms of fiction? I've assumed

1083
01:01:41,040 --> 01:01:43,520
Speaker 3: that you're saying when you wanted to be a writer.

1084
01:01:43,720 --> 01:01:47,000
Speaker 4: You're oh, well, that was when I was. I was

1085
01:01:47,920 --> 01:01:51,920
Speaker 4: in high school, in my first year in college. I

1086
01:01:52,000 --> 01:01:55,840
Speaker 4: don't I don't even know where that stuff is. But

1087
01:01:56,200 --> 01:01:59,160
Speaker 4: as far as I didn't get that far, you want

1088
01:01:59,160 --> 01:02:04,200
Speaker 4: to know, because when I had written a my senior

1089
01:02:04,480 --> 01:02:07,320
Speaker 4: thesis in high school about Stanley's book that I was

1090
01:02:07,320 --> 01:02:09,880
Speaker 4: telling you before, and so when I went when I

1091
01:02:09,920 --> 01:02:12,560
Speaker 4: met him, I gave it to him and he read

1092
01:02:12,600 --> 01:02:14,960
Speaker 4: it finally, and he gave me a B plus and

1093
01:02:15,080 --> 01:02:17,320
Speaker 4: threw it on the ground said, man, pick up your saxophone.

1094
01:02:17,360 --> 01:02:20,400
Speaker 4: That was almost the end of my writing view. So

1095
01:02:20,760 --> 01:02:23,160
Speaker 4: I kind of got discouraged at that point, you know, so,

1096
01:02:23,720 --> 01:02:27,320
Speaker 4: but yeah, anyway, anyway, I'm close to the writers is

1097
01:02:27,320 --> 01:02:31,760
Speaker 4: what I can say. Michael Nash and Carrie Williams and

1098
01:02:32,080 --> 01:02:35,520
Speaker 4: TODs Mahall and Bob Were and myself we've been we've

1099
01:02:35,560 --> 01:02:39,960
Speaker 4: been working on this, uh, this musical for Satul Page

1100
01:02:40,320 --> 01:02:45,200
Speaker 4: for many years now. We're finally ready. The last time

1101
01:02:45,280 --> 01:02:48,480
Speaker 4: we tried to bring it out, this other play called

1102
01:02:48,560 --> 01:02:51,560
Speaker 4: Damn Yankees came up. That was about thirty years ago,

1103
01:02:52,520 --> 01:02:58,000
Speaker 4: nearly thirty years ago. So I think we've revised it

1104
01:02:58,040 --> 01:03:00,360
Speaker 4: and we're about to make another running at it.

1105
01:03:05,360 --> 01:03:08,640
Speaker 3: Speaking of Bob, where can you talk about your foraise

1106
01:03:08,720 --> 01:03:10,919
Speaker 3: into other genres?

1107
01:03:11,000 --> 01:03:13,320
Speaker 5: Like knowing that you played with the Grateful Dead?

1108
01:03:13,400 --> 01:03:16,160
Speaker 3: I mean, of course there's the Bay Area connection that

1109
01:03:16,200 --> 01:03:16,720
Speaker 3: you two have.

1110
01:03:17,120 --> 01:03:18,600
Speaker 5: How long have you been playing with you?

1111
01:03:18,680 --> 01:03:20,480
Speaker 4: It kind of start it kind of started with the

1112
01:03:20,520 --> 01:03:24,240
Speaker 4: satul Page thing project, it kind of and Michael Nash

1113
01:03:24,360 --> 01:03:25,960
Speaker 4: is the one that brought me into it. They gave

1114
01:03:26,000 --> 01:03:29,240
Speaker 4: me a grant and I did a record of Grateful

1115
01:03:29,280 --> 01:03:31,920
Speaker 4: Dead music with my octet. I don't know if you

1116
01:03:31,960 --> 01:03:35,440
Speaker 4: remember that, but it came out and it was kind

1117
01:03:35,440 --> 01:03:38,080
Speaker 4: of popularized their songs and they had a big laugh

1118
01:03:38,120 --> 01:03:42,040
Speaker 4: about it, and Uh I did a gig out at

1119
01:03:42,080 --> 01:03:46,080
Speaker 4: the at the film More Feel More West, and UH

1120
01:03:46,680 --> 01:03:49,720
Speaker 4: and Bob were and Feel Less sat in with me,

1121
01:03:49,800 --> 01:03:52,600
Speaker 4: and at the last minute it was completely sold out.

1122
01:03:52,960 --> 01:03:55,560
Speaker 4: So anytime they played with me, and then I played

1123
01:03:55,560 --> 01:03:57,680
Speaker 4: with him and Yoshi's one time they showed up and

1124
01:03:58,040 --> 01:04:02,200
Speaker 4: was completely so oh okay. So yeah, I mean, anytime

1125
01:04:02,320 --> 01:04:04,760
Speaker 4: anything with the Grateful Dead come up. There's there's so

1126
01:04:04,840 --> 01:04:09,480
Speaker 4: many dead heads in this world. I mean, I've played

1127
01:04:10,240 --> 01:04:13,400
Speaker 4: a wedding one time. Some Grateful Dead fans that just

1128
01:04:13,480 --> 01:04:16,560
Speaker 4: come to me and they put their rings on their

1129
01:04:16,640 --> 01:04:21,520
Speaker 4: toes and it was fantastic, and they paid some money.

1130
01:04:21,520 --> 01:04:23,680
Speaker 4: It was fantastic. It was fantastic. It was a lot

1131
01:04:23,720 --> 01:04:26,480
Speaker 4: of money. It was great. It was out of Martha's vineyard. Yeah,

1132
01:04:26,520 --> 01:04:29,919
Speaker 4: it was very nice. You know, so these little I've

1133
01:04:29,960 --> 01:04:32,200
Speaker 4: never really got paid to play with the Grateful Dead.

1134
01:04:32,240 --> 01:04:36,760
Speaker 4: But things come in different packages, you know, the things

1135
01:04:36,760 --> 01:04:38,960
Speaker 4: from the Dead, they come in other farms.

1136
01:04:39,080 --> 01:04:39,280
Speaker 6: You know.

1137
01:04:40,280 --> 01:04:42,600
Speaker 4: You know, I'll get called with this and called. But

1138
01:04:42,720 --> 01:04:44,520
Speaker 4: I just did a gig in Washington. Some people that

1139
01:04:44,600 --> 01:04:47,400
Speaker 4: knew the Dead played one for Jerry Man. You know.

1140
01:04:47,480 --> 01:04:49,760
Speaker 4: It's always like that. Keeps on giving.

1141
01:04:50,040 --> 01:04:53,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, okay, so you've done what's the name of the project,

1142
01:04:54,760 --> 01:04:59,600
Speaker 3: sun Moon is him and it was two musicians right now,

1143
01:04:59,640 --> 01:05:01,960
Speaker 3: it's just well, it's just it's two instruments, but it's

1144
01:05:01,960 --> 01:05:02,480
Speaker 3: just David.

1145
01:05:02,960 --> 01:05:06,920
Speaker 8: It's he's playing tenor sacks pieces and bass clarinet pieces.

1146
01:05:07,000 --> 01:05:07,560
Speaker 5: Yeah.

1147
01:05:07,760 --> 01:05:10,400
Speaker 3: Okay, So when Steve first told me that you were

1148
01:05:10,440 --> 01:05:14,560
Speaker 3: doing a solo record, how does one plan for that, like,

1149
01:05:15,080 --> 01:05:19,280
Speaker 3: because you've done solo shows by yourself before, correct.

1150
01:05:19,120 --> 01:05:20,960
Speaker 4: Yeah, I've made five solo albums.

1151
01:05:21,840 --> 01:05:22,160
Speaker 5: Wow.

1152
01:05:23,000 --> 01:05:27,520
Speaker 4: Well, one time in seventy eight, I went to Paris

1153
01:05:28,560 --> 01:05:33,640
Speaker 4: at the time into Zaki Shange my first color Girls.

1154
01:05:34,720 --> 01:05:36,000
Speaker 5: You said that was your first wife.

1155
01:05:36,480 --> 01:05:37,000
Speaker 4: What wait?

1156
01:05:39,320 --> 01:05:42,360
Speaker 5: You were there pre colored Girls?

1157
01:05:42,400 --> 01:05:43,040
Speaker 4: Wow?

1158
01:05:43,200 --> 01:05:44,640
Speaker 5: What how come I didn't know this?

1159
01:05:44,760 --> 01:05:47,840
Speaker 7: I didn't, Sorry, David, I didn't meant surprise.

1160
01:05:49,000 --> 01:05:55,760
Speaker 4: No, No, that's not pre colored Girls. That's seventy seven okay, right,

1161
01:05:55,800 --> 01:05:59,120
Speaker 4: a little bit anyway, anyway, mingus, his mom was my

1162
01:05:59,200 --> 01:06:05,120
Speaker 4: second wife, okay, and Francesca's is my fourth wife. Roman

1163
01:06:07,080 --> 01:06:10,000
Speaker 4: and Valerie in Paris was my third wife.

1164
01:06:10,440 --> 01:06:10,760
Speaker 5: Got it?

1165
01:06:11,200 --> 01:06:15,920
Speaker 4: Okay? So we were doing When the Mississippi Meets the Amazon.

1166
01:06:15,960 --> 01:06:20,960
Speaker 4: I had done music for it in Tasaki, Jessica Haggard

1167
01:06:21,040 --> 01:06:24,919
Speaker 4: Dorn and to Lannie Davis. They dressed up like Billy

1168
01:06:25,000 --> 01:06:28,560
Speaker 4: Holliday with gardenias and they read the poetry where the

1169
01:06:28,600 --> 01:06:31,760
Speaker 4: Mississippi meets the Amazon. And it was at the Public Theater.

1170
01:06:33,560 --> 01:06:36,360
Speaker 4: It was just after we had done Photo a Photograph,

1171
01:06:36,360 --> 01:06:39,560
Speaker 4: which I also wrote the music for, and I had

1172
01:06:40,160 --> 01:06:42,520
Speaker 4: I left that show. A lot of people in the

1173
01:06:42,560 --> 01:06:48,640
Speaker 4: show on the band uh J. Hogard was in the band,

1174
01:06:49,840 --> 01:06:53,960
Speaker 4: Michael Gregor Jackson was in the band. Uh from Owing

1175
01:06:54,000 --> 01:06:58,440
Speaker 4: a Cloth was in the band. A lot of good people.

1176
01:06:58,720 --> 01:07:01,880
Speaker 4: And anyway, I left the show because me and in

1177
01:07:02,000 --> 01:07:06,160
Speaker 4: Tazaki we were married three months. Oh wow, but we

1178
01:07:06,200 --> 01:07:10,680
Speaker 4: had we had the marriage of the century artist marriage

1179
01:07:10,720 --> 01:07:14,320
Speaker 4: of the Century in Berkeley, California, at a place called Mapenzi.

1180
01:07:15,360 --> 01:07:18,160
Speaker 4: And the marriage didn't last long. We went to Milwa

1181
01:07:18,400 --> 01:07:22,600
Speaker 4: for the honeymoon. Yeah. So so that was during a

1182
01:07:22,720 --> 01:07:26,760
Speaker 4: time you know, irector Porsche and all kind of shit.

1183
01:07:27,000 --> 01:07:29,560
Speaker 4: Oh shit, you know, I mean it was it was

1184
01:07:29,600 --> 01:07:33,120
Speaker 4: another time, you know. But I went to Paris and

1185
01:07:33,160 --> 01:07:37,560
Speaker 4: I did a concert at the theater move Start, and

1186
01:07:38,840 --> 01:07:42,520
Speaker 4: I did two nights solo there. And out of those

1187
01:07:42,600 --> 01:07:46,320
Speaker 4: two nights solo, we made a record. We sold one

1188
01:07:46,360 --> 01:07:51,760
Speaker 4: to Callac Records in London, the Red Records in Italy

1189
01:07:52,320 --> 01:07:57,000
Speaker 4: and Marge Records in Paris. So that was my first

1190
01:07:57,040 --> 01:08:06,400
Speaker 4: three solo albums, Organic Xophone, Conceptual Saxophone and Surreal Saxophone.

1191
01:08:06,640 --> 01:08:12,320
Speaker 4: And then I did two other solo albums in Florence,

1192
01:08:13,320 --> 01:08:17,599
Speaker 4: This Guy check on Mino, Buyum one and Buyum two

1193
01:08:17,840 --> 01:08:20,759
Speaker 4: those on. That makes five solo records that I made,

1194
01:08:21,680 --> 01:08:23,200
Speaker 4: and then this is yours is the sixth.

1195
01:08:23,680 --> 01:08:26,599
Speaker 8: So doing a solo record or playing a gig solo,

1196
01:08:27,240 --> 01:08:30,760
Speaker 8: is that the ultimate freedom? Or is it better to

1197
01:08:30,800 --> 01:08:33,800
Speaker 8: have others to bounce around and bounce off?

1198
01:08:34,920 --> 01:08:38,599
Speaker 4: When I was younger, I used to set up three

1199
01:08:38,680 --> 01:08:42,559
Speaker 4: microphones on the stage, one over here, one in the

1200
01:08:42,560 --> 01:08:46,200
Speaker 4: middle stage and one here and I come out and

1201
01:08:46,280 --> 01:08:50,599
Speaker 4: I would play three different personalities at each microphone. I

1202
01:08:50,640 --> 01:08:53,719
Speaker 4: did this in London at the Bracknow Festival one time,

1203
01:08:54,200 --> 01:08:57,640
Speaker 4: and I played in front of the Revolutionary Ensemble with

1204
01:08:57,720 --> 01:09:02,040
Speaker 4: Leroy Jenkins and those guys, those guys and uh On

1205
01:09:02,240 --> 01:09:05,760
Speaker 4: that Coleman played after us and uh I have to

1206
01:09:05,760 --> 01:09:10,800
Speaker 4: say I got house, but but it was it was,

1207
01:09:11,160 --> 01:09:14,760
Speaker 4: And I don't know how the concept of using the

1208
01:09:14,800 --> 01:09:20,360
Speaker 4: three personalities and three ways of playing the saxophone. The

1209
01:09:20,360 --> 01:09:23,360
Speaker 4: center stage, I only played like ballasts. I was like that,

1210
01:09:23,560 --> 01:09:26,240
Speaker 4: you know. On the right, I played another kind of way.

1211
01:09:26,280 --> 01:09:29,000
Speaker 4: Over here, I played a different way. And then finally

1212
01:09:29,120 --> 01:09:32,120
Speaker 4: as a constant, and I would move and I was

1213
01:09:32,200 --> 01:09:35,240
Speaker 4: much younger then, and I had these crape shoes and

1214
01:09:35,320 --> 01:09:37,920
Speaker 4: I could move kind of like basketball kind of moves.

1215
01:09:38,439 --> 01:09:42,080
Speaker 4: It was more physical than it is now. I enjoyed

1216
01:09:42,120 --> 01:09:45,000
Speaker 4: it better then than I do now. I don't really

1217
01:09:45,040 --> 01:09:49,520
Speaker 4: like to play solo now. But I'm not that athlete

1218
01:09:49,720 --> 01:09:52,280
Speaker 4: because I used to do the catalon, you know, so,

1219
01:09:52,479 --> 01:09:56,160
Speaker 4: and I won the strength strength competition in the whole area.

1220
01:09:56,240 --> 01:09:59,200
Speaker 4: I was you mean, for real, you did the cathalon. Okay, yeah,

1221
01:09:59,320 --> 01:10:01,400
Speaker 4: I mean it was you know, I was good at

1222
01:10:01,680 --> 01:10:04,840
Speaker 4: sports up until a certain point. Then guys got big,

1223
01:10:05,320 --> 01:10:08,000
Speaker 4: all right, But I was really big when I was young,

1224
01:10:08,280 --> 01:10:12,160
Speaker 4: So i'd say up until fifteen. I probably was pretty good.

1225
01:10:12,200 --> 01:10:15,719
Speaker 4: After leads sixteen, but then you know, music took over,

1226
01:10:15,840 --> 01:10:21,920
Speaker 4: and so yeah, solo concert is a physical act for me.

1227
01:10:22,880 --> 01:10:24,720
Speaker 4: I mean, I've seen other people play I'm not going

1228
01:10:24,800 --> 01:10:27,320
Speaker 4: to say any names. I've seen other people play solo,

1229
01:10:27,960 --> 01:10:29,880
Speaker 4: and it's just like boring, you know, I mean it

1230
01:10:29,920 --> 01:10:32,479
Speaker 4: just like especially if it's one of those head trips.

1231
01:10:32,479 --> 01:10:36,960
Speaker 4: You know, for me, if you're going to play solo,

1232
01:10:36,960 --> 01:10:38,720
Speaker 4: you got to blow the hell out of it. You

1233
01:10:38,800 --> 01:10:43,919
Speaker 4: can't just be like dude, I didn't wait like Chicago musicians.

1234
01:10:45,040 --> 01:10:48,640
Speaker 4: Woo yeah. I gotta tell a joke somewhere in there.

1235
01:10:48,720 --> 01:10:48,800
Speaker 6: Now.

1236
01:10:49,520 --> 01:10:52,880
Speaker 5: You're the most intense soulo is I've ever seen.

1237
01:10:53,080 --> 01:10:57,040
Speaker 4: So I just can't. I can't watch it. If I

1238
01:10:57,040 --> 01:10:59,920
Speaker 4: can't watch it, how am I going to do it?

1239
01:11:00,120 --> 01:11:03,799
Speaker 4: You know, I can't sit and watch like I'm in Europe.

1240
01:11:03,880 --> 01:11:09,519
Speaker 4: I see guys play solo in Europeans, Black guys, different people.

1241
01:11:09,640 --> 01:11:14,080
Speaker 4: They got this heady approaches, intellectual and I say, it's

1242
01:11:14,120 --> 01:11:17,280
Speaker 4: only one guy up there. Why am I waiting for

1243
01:11:17,320 --> 01:11:20,160
Speaker 4: a note to come? I don't get it.

1244
01:11:22,560 --> 01:11:22,760
Speaker 5: You know.

1245
01:11:22,840 --> 01:11:26,200
Speaker 8: It was interesting when we made this record. He had

1246
01:11:26,200 --> 01:11:29,840
Speaker 8: some song ideas and some songs that already existed, but

1247
01:11:29,880 --> 01:11:32,640
Speaker 8: a lot of it, most of it is improvised. He

1248
01:11:32,760 --> 01:11:37,280
Speaker 8: asked me name something for me to play about, to

1249
01:11:38,080 --> 01:11:41,200
Speaker 8: write on the spot about. Just for example. One of

1250
01:11:41,200 --> 01:11:44,320
Speaker 8: the songs called Garcia because we mentioned Jerry Garcia, and

1251
01:11:44,320 --> 01:11:49,320
Speaker 8: then he played for fifteen minutes expressing himself about his

1252
01:11:49,640 --> 01:11:53,799
Speaker 8: experiences with Jerry and things like along those along those lines.

1253
01:11:53,840 --> 01:11:58,400
Speaker 8: So it's fascinating to watch somebody try to attempt that

1254
01:11:59,240 --> 01:12:03,240
Speaker 8: a solo experience, whether it's on stage or in a recording.

1255
01:12:03,320 --> 01:12:04,519
Speaker 5: So daring, you know.

1256
01:12:04,800 --> 01:12:08,880
Speaker 8: So can you be more exposed really or you know too,

1257
01:12:10,240 --> 01:12:14,200
Speaker 8: to just show your creativity on when you're all by yourself.

1258
01:12:14,840 --> 01:12:18,640
Speaker 4: I don't mind that, you know. I work sometimes with

1259
01:12:18,760 --> 01:12:23,840
Speaker 4: this with this artist named nasci Ostrowski. She lives up

1260
01:12:23,920 --> 01:12:27,200
Speaker 4: in the Court, New York. And we did we did

1261
01:12:27,240 --> 01:12:30,320
Speaker 4: a duet concert, you know, with a with an action painter.

1262
01:12:30,360 --> 01:12:33,439
Speaker 4: And I've done a few in Europe, you know, one

1263
01:12:33,520 --> 01:12:41,320
Speaker 4: with the with with this brother from Guadeloupe. Very interesting

1264
01:12:41,400 --> 01:12:45,280
Speaker 4: to do action, I mean the action you know, musicians.

1265
01:12:45,320 --> 01:12:47,760
Speaker 4: I think we're supposed to be some kind of a

1266
01:12:48,400 --> 01:12:51,920
Speaker 4: representatives of our time. We're supposed to be able to,

1267
01:12:53,400 --> 01:12:58,400
Speaker 4: not not that we're sages, are high level gurus or

1268
01:12:58,400 --> 01:13:02,040
Speaker 4: anything like that, but we should be able to, Like

1269
01:13:02,080 --> 01:13:04,720
Speaker 4: a good painter, we should be able to interpret what's

1270
01:13:04,720 --> 01:13:08,920
Speaker 4: happening politically, are socially around us. We should be able to.

1271
01:13:09,000 --> 01:13:11,439
Speaker 4: I mean there's there's many issues. I mean this is

1272
01:13:11,640 --> 01:13:15,120
Speaker 4: this is what ques Love does. He's doing that, but

1273
01:13:15,160 --> 01:13:19,080
Speaker 4: maybe they could hear it in certain kind of improvisations.

1274
01:13:19,439 --> 01:13:21,679
Speaker 8: So we got to see him improvise on his own,

1275
01:13:21,720 --> 01:13:24,280
Speaker 8: and then we got to see him improvise with two

1276
01:13:24,320 --> 01:13:27,120
Speaker 8: other people, You and Ray Angry. The most amazing thing

1277
01:13:27,280 --> 01:13:32,280
Speaker 8: was watching either you or Ray or David come up

1278
01:13:32,320 --> 01:13:35,200
Speaker 8: with an idea and then hear the response from the

1279
01:13:35,280 --> 01:13:37,680
Speaker 8: other improv improvising me.

1280
01:13:37,800 --> 01:13:42,639
Speaker 4: It was very difficult too, because to try to keep

1281
01:13:42,680 --> 01:13:46,320
Speaker 4: a melodic motif going and making it up on the

1282
01:13:46,360 --> 01:13:52,559
Speaker 4: spot almost was sometimes doing that recording. I felt like

1283
01:13:52,880 --> 01:13:58,759
Speaker 4: I had to write melodies as I was improvising something

1284
01:13:58,800 --> 01:14:02,040
Speaker 4: that people could hold on too, because I'm really a

1285
01:14:02,080 --> 01:14:04,880
Speaker 4: true believer of the song for him, even though people

1286
01:14:05,360 --> 01:14:08,360
Speaker 4: categorize my music as avant garde, but what I am

1287
01:14:08,640 --> 01:14:11,080
Speaker 4: is a person who's truly into the song for him.

1288
01:14:12,080 --> 01:14:15,680
Speaker 4: Melody is very important to me. And what they were

1289
01:14:15,680 --> 01:14:18,559
Speaker 4: throwing at me, what quest Love was throwing at me,

1290
01:14:19,479 --> 01:14:22,559
Speaker 4: it wasn't easy. I mean, I'm trying to translate his

1291
01:14:22,680 --> 01:14:26,599
Speaker 4: rhythms and then I play something, and then Ray would

1292
01:14:26,600 --> 01:14:29,680
Speaker 4: do something, and then it was like a triangle that

1293
01:14:29,800 --> 01:14:33,080
Speaker 4: was happening. I was just trying to keep up with

1294
01:14:33,360 --> 01:14:35,640
Speaker 4: what they were throwing me too, because it was some

1295
01:14:35,680 --> 01:14:37,560
Speaker 4: of a lot of fastballs and curveballs.

1296
01:14:37,840 --> 01:14:41,000
Speaker 5: Meanwhile, I'm trying to just I.

1297
01:14:40,920 --> 01:14:42,519
Speaker 7: Was just thinking. I was like, a meir, how did

1298
01:14:42,520 --> 01:14:44,439
Speaker 7: you go in thinking approaching that?

1299
01:14:44,560 --> 01:14:48,720
Speaker 3: I mean, look, Steve convinced me to leave the farm.

1300
01:14:49,240 --> 01:14:53,599
Speaker 3: It was still like mid quarantine.

1301
01:14:53,120 --> 01:14:56,759
Speaker 5: Right, like, or at least yeah, towards the end, but yeah, yeah.

1302
01:14:56,560 --> 01:14:58,599
Speaker 3: It was like the end of it, but still like

1303
01:14:59,479 --> 01:15:03,559
Speaker 3: I mean that in the air, and then like to

1304
01:15:03,600 --> 01:15:06,000
Speaker 3: even be creative in that time period, which is I

1305
01:15:06,000 --> 01:15:08,479
Speaker 3: think the real reason why I agreed to do it.

1306
01:15:08,560 --> 01:15:11,840
Speaker 3: I think I would have invented an excuse to get

1307
01:15:11,840 --> 01:15:14,360
Speaker 3: out of it, because I think there's a point where

1308
01:15:14,920 --> 01:15:17,559
Speaker 3: maybe after two thousand and four, two thousand and five,

1309
01:15:18,600 --> 01:15:22,559
Speaker 3: I really just stopped trying to chase the dragon of

1310
01:15:23,640 --> 01:15:27,400
Speaker 3: you know, virtuoso musician and that sort of thing. And

1311
01:15:27,439 --> 01:15:30,640
Speaker 3: so normally I would have said no to that, but

1312
01:15:31,000 --> 01:15:33,120
Speaker 3: I mean, you caught me right in a position where

1313
01:15:33,200 --> 01:15:34,600
Speaker 3: it was like, all right, well.

1314
01:15:35,000 --> 01:15:36,479
Speaker 8: I think everybody was challenged.

1315
01:15:36,560 --> 01:15:39,120
Speaker 5: Yeah, I wanted to get out the house and you know,

1316
01:15:40,000 --> 01:15:41,200
Speaker 5: just have fun.

1317
01:15:41,439 --> 01:15:42,640
Speaker 3: So I was like, all right, well, let me make

1318
01:15:42,680 --> 01:15:45,760
Speaker 3: a fool of myself in front of David is going

1319
01:15:45,840 --> 01:15:46,559
Speaker 3: to take me serious?

1320
01:15:46,600 --> 01:15:48,800
Speaker 5: Then I know it's good and actually you know it.

1321
01:15:49,960 --> 01:15:53,760
Speaker 4: Was good, clean fun, believe me. But it was a

1322
01:15:53,880 --> 01:15:54,360
Speaker 4: work too.

1323
01:15:55,080 --> 01:15:57,280
Speaker 3: I would love to do it again. We part of

1324
01:15:57,320 --> 01:15:59,280
Speaker 3: me also wants to take it live, so you know

1325
01:15:59,439 --> 01:15:59,920
Speaker 3: that would.

1326
01:15:59,760 --> 01:16:01,640
Speaker 4: Be that I was wondering if y'a would ever do that.

1327
01:16:01,720 --> 01:16:02,720
Speaker 4: I would be fantastic.

1328
01:16:02,800 --> 01:16:05,000
Speaker 8: Well, we're supposed to do some Blue Note shows when

1329
01:16:05,040 --> 01:16:08,400
Speaker 8: the physical product comes in the next few months.

1330
01:16:08,640 --> 01:16:11,280
Speaker 5: Well, there we have it. I guess my last question

1331
01:16:11,400 --> 01:16:14,639
Speaker 5: to you before we wrap is what is the future

1332
01:16:14,680 --> 01:16:15,320
Speaker 5: of jazz now?

1333
01:16:16,280 --> 01:16:20,280
Speaker 3: When people say that, but for you, like, are there

1334
01:16:20,439 --> 01:16:26,519
Speaker 3: any bucket list projects that you'd love to get into,

1335
01:16:27,479 --> 01:16:29,759
Speaker 3: you know while you're still active?

1336
01:16:30,960 --> 01:16:37,080
Speaker 4: Well, I really would like to do an opera, if

1337
01:16:37,120 --> 01:16:39,680
Speaker 4: not the Pushkin. See the thing about the Pushkin and

1338
01:16:39,760 --> 01:16:45,559
Speaker 4: the whole thing about the war in Ukraine and kind

1339
01:16:45,560 --> 01:16:48,479
Speaker 4: of put a damper on it for the moment. But

1340
01:16:50,560 --> 01:16:54,000
Speaker 4: when I was looking toward Pushkin, I was looking towards

1341
01:16:54,479 --> 01:17:02,360
Speaker 4: creating another mulatto hero for black people, somebody who who

1342
01:17:01,960 --> 01:17:05,479
Speaker 4: was a true poet and uh he was part black,

1343
01:17:06,360 --> 01:17:12,559
Speaker 4: so anyway, but that and the satul page I would

1344
01:17:12,600 --> 01:17:18,920
Speaker 4: like to complete, and I have many aspirations if I

1345
01:17:18,960 --> 01:17:20,559
Speaker 4: were to be able to get some grants. I like

1346
01:17:20,600 --> 01:17:24,599
Speaker 4: to write for larger ensembles, certainly, and when I say large,

1347
01:17:24,640 --> 01:17:28,120
Speaker 4: I mean larger than octet. I like to write for

1348
01:17:29,560 --> 01:17:31,920
Speaker 4: I have some orchestra music, and I'd like to.

1349
01:17:32,680 --> 01:17:34,880
Speaker 8: We can't afford an orchestra at my label, but we

1350
01:17:34,920 --> 01:17:37,520
Speaker 8: can keep you on solo records anyway.

1351
01:17:38,680 --> 01:17:41,360
Speaker 4: I'll be happy just to play with my quartet for

1352
01:17:41,400 --> 01:17:44,439
Speaker 4: the next couple of years and uh see them grow,

1353
01:17:44,760 --> 01:17:48,160
Speaker 4: uh get ready for this new album that's gonna come out,

1354
01:17:48,280 --> 01:17:53,360
Speaker 4: and be on tour with that and uh ca he

1355
01:17:53,600 --> 01:17:57,599
Speaker 4: else the bar and duet and play with you guys.

1356
01:17:58,160 --> 01:18:02,600
Speaker 4: Fantastic with you, and that would be a dream.

1357
01:18:02,640 --> 01:18:03,720
Speaker 5: Well, thank you man.

1358
01:18:03,800 --> 01:18:06,920
Speaker 3: It was a dream plan with you, and you know

1359
01:18:07,600 --> 01:18:11,280
Speaker 3: I am not. Even though I'm world famous for exaggerating

1360
01:18:11,320 --> 01:18:16,400
Speaker 3: and statements, I still maintain that you are one of

1361
01:18:16,479 --> 01:18:20,880
Speaker 3: the greatest living musicians. And I appreciate you for sitting

1362
01:18:21,000 --> 01:18:23,040
Speaker 3: talking to us.

1363
01:18:23,160 --> 01:18:28,920
Speaker 1: David Murray, Lads and jentlemen, thank you for listening to

1364
01:18:29,040 --> 01:18:33,960
Speaker 1: Quest Love Supreme hosted by Quest Love Thompson. Why You

1365
01:18:34,000 --> 01:18:40,479
Speaker 1: Saint Clair Coleman, Sugar Steve Mandell an unpaid Bill Sherman.

1366
01:18:41,560 --> 01:18:46,240
Speaker 1: Executive producers are Near Quest Love, Thompson, Sean.

1367
01:18:46,000 --> 01:18:48,280
Speaker 5: Che Brian Calhoun.

1368
01:18:49,280 --> 01:18:55,240
Speaker 1: Produced by Britney Benjamin Cousin, Jake Payne, Eliah Saint Clayton,

1369
01:18:56,320 --> 01:19:01,000
Speaker 1: edited by Alex Conroy. Produced by iHeart by Noel Brown.

1370
01:19:03,240 --> 01:19:10,760
Speaker 1: What's Love Supreme is a production of iHeartRadio. For more

1371
01:19:10,800 --> 01:19:15,320
Speaker 1: podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or

1372
01:19:15,320 --> 01:19:17,200
Speaker 1: wherever you listen to your favorite shows.