Speaker 1: You know those disposable disinfectant wipes, the ones you flush
Speaker 1: down the toilet. They're really hard to find nowadays. You
Speaker 1: know who has a lot of them though, your local
Speaker 1: sewer system managers, and they really really don't want them.
Speaker 1: Today on Parts per Billion, The Unexpected Environmental Consequences of
Speaker 1: the coronavirus Pandemic. Hello, and welcome back to Parts per Billion,
Speaker 1: the Environmental podcast from Bloomberg Law. I'm your host, David Schultz,
Speaker 1: and it sounds like my upstairs neighbors are using their
Speaker 1: rumba right now, So that is what is happening today.
Speaker 1: I'm not really sure how else to say this, but
Speaker 1: the coronavirus pandemic is just a totally unprecedented situation. I mean,
Speaker 1: the sickening of tens of thousands of people, the shutdown
Speaker 1: of huge swaths of the economy, seemingly overnight. There's not
Speaker 1: a lot you can compare that to. And as a result,
Speaker 1: we're seeing things happen with the environment that no one
Speaker 1: could have predicted, for example, the threat of disinfectant wipes
Speaker 1: clogging the sewers. So today we're going to be talking
Speaker 1: with environment I'm a reporter, Emily Dooley, She's based in California,
Speaker 1: where she is right now, but the novel issues she's
Speaker 1: been seeing can offer apply in any state. Hi, Emily,
Speaker 1: how are you, hi, David. I'm well, thanks, so Emily.
Speaker 1: There have been a lot of unexpected consequences. And let's
Speaker 1: start off with these disinfectant wipes. I understand they can
Speaker 1: create something called a fat berg. What in God's name
Speaker 1: is that? So yeah, fat berg. It's one of my
Speaker 1: favorite things. So you know how everything that goes down
Speaker 1: your drain, it collects into a sewer if you're not
Speaker 1: on a septic system. Sewer systems sometimes they're old, sometimes
Speaker 1: they've got, you know, a lot going on. Many are
Speaker 1: fed by gravity. Some have pumps. Toilet paper can degrade
Speaker 1: and go through the system. Fine sanitary wipes, disinfectant wipes,
Speaker 1: paper towels, they do not, even if it says that
Speaker 1: they're flushible. Sometimes yes, they just do not degrade in
Speaker 1: the same way as toilet paper. And so imagine if
Speaker 1: for whatever reason, people obviously are paying more attention to
Speaker 1: disinfecting surfaces, but some people are putting the wipes and
Speaker 1: towels down their toilets and down their drains rather than
Speaker 1: the trash So these things are going into the system,
Speaker 1: they're getting stuck, they're collecting, they're catching other wipes, they're
Speaker 1: getting grease, they're getting hair, they're getting all these things,
Speaker 1: and it grows and it grows and it grows, and
Speaker 1: it can clog up the sewer system. It can cause overflows,
Speaker 1: it can back up drains. It's not a good situation.
Speaker 1: And one of the last things you want during a
Speaker 1: pandemic is for your sewer system to not be working,
Speaker 1: and it can be a huge problem. In London several
Speaker 1: years ago they found one that was forty tons and
Speaker 1: it took workers three weeks to dig out and blast
Speaker 1: out all the goo that had collected in the sewer system. So,
Speaker 1: I mean, that's first off, that's gross. Secondly, is this
Speaker 1: something that people are really worried is going to happen
Speaker 1: now during the pandemic, because I mean, people are using
Speaker 1: a lot more of these waves. They are, and they're
Speaker 1: seeing it in places I know. Out in California. On
Speaker 1: Saint Patrick's Day, the top Water Regulator put out a
Speaker 1: public service announcement saying, just please please don't flush these
Speaker 1: things down the toilet. It's bad. And I talked to
Speaker 1: some of the districts of the sanitary districts, and they
Speaker 1: were already seeing way more like shop towels and paper
Speaker 1: towels and things in their system, and they were having
Speaker 1: breaks and they were having issues. And if you think
Speaker 1: about if if two or three or four people do
Speaker 1: this in an apartment building, like how fast that situation
Speaker 1: can kind of add up and create havoc. It can
Speaker 1: be a really sort of not a situation you want
Speaker 1: to deal with while you're also trying to avoid the coronavirus.
Speaker 1: This is something that we've talked about a lot on
Speaker 1: the podcast, which is that all of these environmental problems
Speaker 1: are happening at a time when staffing is going to
Speaker 1: be an issue for you know, everyone, but sewer systems also,
Speaker 1: like you're just going to you know, if you have
Speaker 1: a fat berg that clogs up the sewer, you're gonna
Speaker 1: have to send some people, you know to fix it.
Speaker 1: And who are you going to send? I mean, it's
Speaker 1: it's that I feel like that complicates every single problem
Speaker 1: that we're talking about. Yeah, staffing is a big problem,
Speaker 1: and I know some you know, water districts are sort
Speaker 1: of isolating staff members, keeping them on the sideline. So
Speaker 1: if some crews that like repair water main brakes or
Speaker 1: you know, monitor equipment gets sick. They can like swap
Speaker 1: people in and out, so they're keeping people in isolation.
Speaker 1: But you know that if you're a smaller district, or
Speaker 1: you have a lot of people who get sick, or
Speaker 1: you have a lot of breaks, you know that's it's
Speaker 1: not a sustainable situation. There's there's a bill that you
Speaker 1: guys have in the California legislature that deals with these
Speaker 1: flushable wives. Right. It prohibits products from claiming they're flushable
Speaker 1: if they don't meet certain standards. And then if it's
Speaker 1: not flushable, it requires like really clear labeling that says
Speaker 1: don't flush me. And I'm looking I have my I
Speaker 1: have a tin of chlorox here and it's in really
Speaker 1: tiny type that it says, don't flush down the toilet.
Speaker 1: I mean, it gives like picture descriptions of how to
Speaker 1: open the top, but like it's a really tiny tiny
Speaker 1: you know, don't flush this. So, just out of curiosity
Speaker 1: asking for a friend here, where did you get those wipes?
Speaker 1: I sort of did it by accident. If you like
Speaker 1: order Amazon Fresh at like one am, sometimes they'll deliver,
Speaker 1: but I can send you I can send you a yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm just just just curious what tell me about that
Speaker 1: legislation and maybe will this be the momentum that pushes
Speaker 1: it across the finish line. It could be. However, the
Speaker 1: legislature is on break right now. They went out for
Speaker 1: a few weeks. They were supposed to come back on Monday,
Speaker 1: but they have now extended that to May fourth, so
Speaker 1: it's it's unclear. There's been some talk about, you know,
Speaker 1: if if leadership will say, you know what, you can
Speaker 1: only have five bills instead of the dozens of bills
Speaker 1: that you normally file, So it's unclear what might happen.
Speaker 1: And to put it in perspective, last year, I just
Speaker 1: tracked about three to four hundred environment and energy bills
Speaker 1: myself and probably missed a few. So there's a lot
Speaker 1: that goes on. And if they miss like a month
Speaker 1: and a half, that means there's going to be a
Speaker 1: huge crunch time and they just may not have time
Speaker 1: to do all of to process all of the bills
Speaker 1: that have been submitted. So there might be some kind
Speaker 1: of you know limit or you know, you can only
Speaker 1: submit bills on essential items, And it's unclear kind of
Speaker 1: where this one will end up. Okay, well, let's take
Speaker 1: a little break here, and when we come back, we're
Speaker 1: going to be moving on from fat Burghs, thank god,
Speaker 1: and talking about maybe some other environmental issues that have
Speaker 1: cropped up in the last few weeks that really no
Speaker 1: one could have foreseen. Stay tuned, we're here and we're
Speaker 1: back with Emily Dooley. She's based in Sacramento, California, and
Speaker 1: we're talking about the environmental problems that have come up
Speaker 1: in the last few weeks as a result of the pandemic.
Speaker 1: So let's focus on California. When I think of environmental
Speaker 1: problems in California, the first thing I think of is wildfires.
Speaker 1: What is the state doing or I guess not doing
Speaker 1: right now to prepare for wildfire season, which I have
Speaker 1: to imagine is coming up pretty soon. Are there things
Speaker 1: that the state just simply can't do because they don't
Speaker 1: have the staffing or for any number of reasons as
Speaker 1: a result of the coronavirus pandemic. I think that's a
Speaker 1: bit of a kind of a time we'll tell situation.
Speaker 1: You know, we're in a bit of a dry period
Speaker 1: right now, though rains recently might kind of take care
Speaker 1: of some of that. There's been already, you know, fire
Speaker 1: season's year round now in California, and there's been already
Speaker 1: this year through April fifth of more than six hundred fires.
Speaker 1: In the same period. Last year there was about two
Speaker 1: hundred and twenty. But it's the same amount of acreage,
Speaker 1: right so things seemed to be and last year was
Speaker 1: a good year, if you can call it a good year.
Speaker 1: It didn't have it wasn't as horrible as twenty eighteen.
Speaker 1: So right now there's a lot of work that's sort
Speaker 1: of in the planning stages for how to reduce vegetation,
Speaker 1: or make fire breaks, or do do a lot of
Speaker 1: things to prevent wildfires from spreading. And it's sort of
Speaker 1: it's unclear what might happen, if things will be delayed,
Speaker 1: or if there are on long enough timelines that this
Speaker 1: is a bit of a glitch. So it's kind of
Speaker 1: it's hard to tell right now. Speaking of wildfires, let's
Speaker 1: broaden it out and talk about air pollution, another thing
Speaker 1: that California is unfortunately known for. I'm getting the sense
Speaker 1: based on your reporting that you know, the state wanted
Speaker 1: to enact some new air pollution regulations this year. It
Speaker 1: had you know, a pretty robust agenda, and now as
Speaker 1: a result of the virus, that's just not going to
Speaker 1: be happening. What's happened? What's going on there? I'm not
Speaker 1: sure that that's that actually the case. There have there
Speaker 1: have been several industry groups that have asked the Air
Speaker 1: Resources Board to delay or kind of halt the process
Speaker 1: when it comes to like you know, clean truck sales
Speaker 1: or low emission heavy duty trucks, but the Air Board
Speaker 1: has said, nope, timelines and deadlines apply. You know, these
Speaker 1: in California and probably many other places. These regulations don't
Speaker 1: come out of thin air. They're like a year's long process.
Speaker 1: So these things have been known that they're coming, and
Speaker 1: it's a crunch time right now. Yes, but it's not
Speaker 1: a surprise. There's been like some you know extending of
Speaker 1: comment periods and things like that, but there hasn't been
Speaker 1: any wholesale you know what, we're not going to do
Speaker 1: this till next year announcement. Now that could change, if
Speaker 1: you know, people are sequestered in their homes for you know,
Speaker 1: six months or something. Because you can do a lot
Speaker 1: of things online, but there is not universal broadband access
Speaker 1: so that would mean you're not reaching all the population
Speaker 1: that might want to comment on things. So there could
Speaker 1: be some changes down the line, I see. But it
Speaker 1: sounds like even though industry groups or certain industry groups
Speaker 1: are asking the state to postpone or delay or give
Speaker 1: you know, some leniency on error regulations, the state as
Speaker 1: of now, which you know, we're talking on Wednesday, April eighth,
Speaker 1: as of now, the state is moving forward with that
Speaker 1: and there's no delays at least right now, or no
Speaker 1: major delays correct. And you know, the same goes for
Speaker 1: you know, when it comes to water discharge permits. The
Speaker 1: water regulators have said, you're an essential service. We expect
Speaker 1: you to be compliant and if you're not, please reach
Speaker 1: out and let us know. But you're essential, and you know,
Speaker 1: please operate that way. And finally, though, let's talk about
Speaker 1: a surprising development that may be positive as a result
Speaker 1: of the virus, if you you know, want to even
Speaker 1: call it that. It sounds like because of some you know,
Speaker 1: pressed economic activity, which again is not a good thing,
Speaker 1: there are lower rates of air pollution in some areas,
Speaker 1: and you know, maybe even California, which has famously epic
Speaker 1: air pollution problems. What's going on there? Are we seeing
Speaker 1: air quality benefits in California as a result of people
Speaker 1: staying in their homes and not driving. See this is
Speaker 1: why I'm no fun at cocktail parties. So, yeah, there
Speaker 1: has been cleaner air in LA and San Diego and
Speaker 1: other places. California has some of the worst air quality
Speaker 1: in the nation, and keeping people home has made for
Speaker 1: clearer and cleaner air. However, the long term effects of
Speaker 1: breathing in bad air pollution still remain. So there's asthma,
Speaker 1: there's respiratory distress, and there's all of those things that
Speaker 1: also make people more susceptible to having difficulties with the coronavirus.
Speaker 1: But there has been you know, measurable better air quality
Speaker 1: in the big cities and especially in southern California. Yeah,
Speaker 1: if you look at some of the NASA sort of measurements,
Speaker 1: they do say that, and people anecdotically say that it's
Speaker 1: a lot. It's sort of it's a lot clearer than normal.
Speaker 1: So it's like noticeable. Yes, I mean I don't notice
Speaker 1: it here in Sacramento, but I think in LA and
Speaker 1: other places probably you would visually notice it a lot more. Wow,
Speaker 1: all right, well, that'll do it for today's episode of
Speaker 1: Parts per billion. If you want more on how the
Speaker 1: pandemic is affecting the environment in any and every state,
Speaker 1: our website is the place to go. That's newstot Bloomberg
Speaker 1: environment dot com. That website, once again is newstot Bloomberg
Speaker 1: Environment dot com. Today's episode of Parspervillion was produced by
Speaker 1: myself along with Josh Block and Marissa Horn. Special assistance
Speaker 1: today came from Anna Yukononov. Parspavilion was created by Jessa
Speaker 1: Coombs and Rachel Daegel. The music for today's episode is
Speaker 1: a message by Jazar and Surf Queen by Leyton Cordel.
Speaker 1: They were used under their Creative Comments license. Thanks for listening, everyone,
Speaker 1: don't flush your wipes. Don't flush your wipes. Taxes and
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