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Speaker 1: Andrew McCarthy is an actor, writer, and director, and you

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Speaker 1: may know him from some of his most iconic eighties

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Speaker 1: films like Pretty and Pink, Satan Alma's Spire, and Less

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Speaker 1: Than Zero, just to name a few scene every minute

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Speaker 1: of them multiple times. But that's not all. Andrew is

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Speaker 1: also an author and is releasing his new book Walking

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Speaker 1: with Sam, which is an intimate and funny travel memoir

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Speaker 1: following Andrew as he walks the Camino de Santiago with

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Speaker 1: his son Sam. This is just be with Andrew McCarthy,

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Speaker 1: very excited, so we have to get some.

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Speaker 2: Awkward things out of the way. If that's okay with you.

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Speaker 1: There, I go okay, so I and I'm not This

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Speaker 1: is not me like fantasizing about many different people. But

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Speaker 1: I only had two childhood like everyone had a bunch.

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Speaker 1: Actually I liked Duran Duran a lot, but I had

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Speaker 1: two like ride or Die childhood crushes and don't get jealous.

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Speaker 1: One was Matt Dylan and the other one was you,

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Speaker 1: but like you lasted longer. That sounded wrong, but Matt

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Speaker 1: Dylan was like early you lasted longer than Matt Dylan.

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Speaker 1: But I you just really and the career that you've

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Speaker 1: created and curated and molded and sculpted into something so

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Speaker 1: interesting now makes me proud that I bet on the

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Speaker 1: right horse early, like mannequin early. So that's just something

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Speaker 1: I wanted to get out of the way.

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Speaker 3: Thanks.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, sorry, I've I've watched everything you've done. I just

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Speaker 1: in addition to being a heart throw for so many,

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Speaker 1: you're so talented and your writing is amazing.

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Speaker 2: So I was really excited when Jill told me that

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Speaker 2: you were going to be on this podcast.

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Speaker 3: Oh I'm equally it's excited, So thank you.

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Speaker 1: Awesome, Okay, so, uh but I really mean it. You

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Speaker 1: have cultivation this career that to me seems like you're

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Speaker 1: really doing things the way exactly the way that you

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Speaker 1: want to do it now where you started out obviously

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Speaker 1: as an unknown, in which everyone's an unknow when they

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Speaker 1: start out, but and you've gotten to this point, it

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Speaker 1: feels like where you're doing really things that you're really

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Speaker 1: passionate about, but you still are able to monetize them

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Speaker 1: and have people receive them, and you just have an

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Speaker 1: interesting different career in addition to acting. Is that accurate?

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Speaker 1: Do you do a lot of things you don't want

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Speaker 1: to do?

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Speaker 3: Well, that's a nice way to look at it. I

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Speaker 3: don't do as many things as I that I don't

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Speaker 3: want to do as I used to. You're right in

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Speaker 3: the sense that I'm not a good business man. I'm

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Speaker 3: like you, I'm a terrible business man, and so I

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Speaker 3: am a business person. So I just do what I

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Speaker 3: want to do and sort of feels right to me.

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Speaker 3: And I mean, who goes from being an actor to being,

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Speaker 3: you know, in movies and TV to being a travel

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Speaker 3: writer for you know, that's very downwardly mobile, you know,

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Speaker 3: and then I writing these books and stuff. So yeah,

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Speaker 3: I just tend to do what I want, what makes

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Speaker 3: me feel good in what I like to do. And

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Speaker 3: I also I'm a person that likes as few votes

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Speaker 3: as possible in my life, and so I don't want

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Speaker 3: to need a lot of a big committee to approve

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Speaker 3: of what I'm doing. Whereas an acting you're always waiting

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Speaker 3: for somebody to call you and give you a chance.

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Speaker 3: Or is I like to do I want to do this,

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Speaker 3: I'm going to go do this, and I do do

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Speaker 3: it sort of like books and travel writing and various

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Speaker 3: things like for fun and for free. I do them

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Speaker 3: because I want to do them and hopefully they work out.

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Speaker 1: You know, so you don't crowdsource ideas whatsoever? Or do

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Speaker 1: you crowdsource and then ultimately not at all? Okay, what's interesting.

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Speaker 3: Though, I do the opposite of crowdsources. I don't tell

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Speaker 3: anybody for as long as possible about what I want

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Speaker 3: to do, because invariably people can kind of yeah, and

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Speaker 3: that'll kill it for me. It'll just wither on the ball.

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Speaker 3: And for me, I just do what I feel to do.

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Speaker 3: And okay, is it ready to go out and withstand

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Speaker 3: public scrutiny? I hope. So there it is. So I

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Speaker 3: do the opposite of crowdsource.

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Speaker 1: It's funny that you say that, though, because there are

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Speaker 1: a lot of you know, hiring business people that listen

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Speaker 1: to this show, and I plan less than one would think.

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Speaker 1: I don't have a big grand plan. I too do

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Speaker 1: what I want to do and always have. But I

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Speaker 1: do think about the chess board. And it sounds like

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Speaker 1: you don't think about the chessboard.

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Speaker 2: You just are like.

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Speaker 1: Moving that piece, and you've you've been like you know,

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Speaker 1: Forrest Gump ended up in a pretty good place. And

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Speaker 1: I'm not saying you're not inteligent. I'm just saying he

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Speaker 1: put one foot in front of the other and did

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Speaker 1: whatever was right in front and it seemed to really

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Speaker 1: work out for him.

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Speaker 2: So I am.

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Speaker 3: Looking at me far more successful if I had more

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Speaker 3: of an eye on the horizon. And this will be

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Speaker 3: to Batman, I want to do that, and then okay,

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Speaker 3: if I did.

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Speaker 1: That, okay, So how do you manage the business aspects

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Speaker 1: of your life? And you know, for your provide for

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Speaker 1: your family, and who does all the business stuff, and

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Speaker 1: how do you know you can trust them? And how

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Speaker 1: do you manage knowing what you don't know, because that's

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Speaker 1: as important as knowing what you do.

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Speaker 2: Know.

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Speaker 3: Well, I know what I don't like to do, and

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Speaker 3: I'm not real strong at so I just hire people

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Speaker 3: that help me do that. Those aspects of business and

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Speaker 3: money and stuff, and you know, having to provide for

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Speaker 3: multiple children and parents and things that sort of keeps

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Speaker 3: a fire under me to go, Okay, what do I

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Speaker 3: gotta do next? What's next? What's next? So I'm always

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Speaker 3: thinking about what's next. But I wish I had that

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Speaker 3: kind of vision to sort of okay, five years I

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Speaker 3: want to be doing this. You know, I just never

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Speaker 3: could think like that, And you know, I've trusted people

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Speaker 3: that have handled helped me with money and things, and

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Speaker 3: it's paid off.

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Speaker 1: Have you had a lull in your career or you

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Speaker 1: have really just one foot in front of the other,

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Speaker 1: been working the entire time some version of success.

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Speaker 3: I've been working the entire time. But I'd say there

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Speaker 3: was a lull for ten fifteen years. The nineties really

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Speaker 3: were low for me in the sense I did bad

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Speaker 3: movies or tell bad TV things I would pop in on.

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Speaker 3: And it wasn't until I discovered travel writing by accident,

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Speaker 3: which led to sort of a creative rebirth for me,

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Speaker 3: and that led to books and things and talking about

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Speaker 3: it and being involved in that world. That was sort

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Speaker 3: of a rebirth for me. And then it sort of

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Speaker 3: that led somehow. I think it pushed in my confidence.

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Speaker 3: Suddenly I was sort of directing again. I started directing

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Speaker 3: television shows and that led to smacking stuff. So you know, success,

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Speaker 3: great success and stuff. But I'd say there was a

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Speaker 3: good ten to fifteen years where I was in the

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Speaker 3: wild and just sort of trying to recapture pest glories,

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Speaker 3: you know, and that is never a good thing and

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Speaker 3: it's just.

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Speaker 2: Not satisfying, right. That's chasing the dragon.

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Speaker 1: Most of the people that are very successful that come

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Speaker 1: on here really are not motivated by money. They're motivated

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Speaker 1: by passion. And that ten years was that? Did you

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Speaker 1: resent the way that you came into this business during

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Speaker 1: those ten years? Like that you came in in the

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Speaker 1: Brat Pack and those movies that were so successful, But

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Speaker 1: that's peaking early and then having that's a long time

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Speaker 1: to have a lull, I mean in that kind of

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Speaker 1: public environment that you work.

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Speaker 3: Well, you know, also people aren't really paying intoed anybody

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Speaker 3: that's closely But did I resent it? No? It took

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Speaker 3: me year decades to come to terms with my early

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Speaker 3: success and to realize what a blessing it was, whereas

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Speaker 3: it felt very stigmatizing, and I think it was professionally

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Speaker 3: stigmatizing for a number of years uh and for decades.

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Speaker 3: Uh And so it took me a long time to

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Speaker 3: come to terms with that. Really to writing that book

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Speaker 3: about the Brat Pack. In my time, writing Brat helped

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Speaker 3: me really see you know, the gifts that came with

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Speaker 3: that as opposed to just the stigma that came with it.

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Speaker 3: Because now it's a very kind of iconic and fuzzy,

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Speaker 3: warm phrase and recalls a moment of youth for a

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Speaker 3: certain generation. And you know, I'm like this avatar of

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Speaker 3: their youth, and so they look at me with kind

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Speaker 3: of an affection because I represent something in their youth.

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Speaker 3: You're you know, you're a mannequin to you, you know,

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Speaker 3: and that's wonderful that it's become that and kind of

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Speaker 3: amazing that I've become that. But for a long time,

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Speaker 3: it wasn't that. And when it did come, when the

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Speaker 3: term was coined, it was, you know, a very negative term.

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Speaker 3: You know. It was New York magazine in the MIDI

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Speaker 3: right snarky and very you know, and it was a

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Speaker 3: real takedown. And you know, I've always said, you know,

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Speaker 3: Marty Scrusezy and Steven Spielberg aren't going to call somebody

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Speaker 3: who's in the brat pack to be in there.

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Speaker 1: Ah, It's funny because it's true. That's that was my

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Speaker 1: that's my era of movies, you know. And I wanted

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Speaker 1: to move to la and like you know, see you

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Speaker 1: and live in the movie pretty in Pink.

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Speaker 3: And I lived in New York, so you would have

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Speaker 3: missed me.

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Speaker 2: Oh my god.

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Speaker 1: Well, so that was my era, and I know exactly

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Speaker 1: what you're talking about, because I did read those articles.

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Speaker 1: And I also know what you're talking about because I

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Speaker 1: tried to do a rint from the Housewives being clumped in.

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Speaker 1: I like, you didn't like to be clumped in, and

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Speaker 1: you're trying to do a rint, so you're kind of

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Speaker 1: not remembering where you came from, but you recognize that

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Speaker 1: it was good to you. It's like a mixed relationship

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Speaker 1: with something. And when you come to a point where

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Speaker 1: you could have a good relationship with it, and you know,

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Speaker 1: just like it's got some just like a nice memory

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Speaker 1: to you overall, that's a good place to get. So

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Speaker 1: I actually oddly relate to that because it's got a

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Speaker 1: bad connotation.

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Speaker 3: It's exactly the same. You know, you're dismissed, is this

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Speaker 3: or that? And it's like, wait, you're not even seeing me,

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Speaker 3: And particularly when you're young, it's like you just want

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Speaker 3: to be That's all any of us ever want is

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Speaker 3: to be seen, see who I am, you know. And

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Speaker 3: so later in life, you know, with these books and

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Speaker 3: various things and starting to direct and the stuff I've

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Speaker 3: been doing acting wise a little bit, so I've gone

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Speaker 3: back to that a little bit. It's much more you know,

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Speaker 3: since I stopped caring in a certain sense, I just yes, yeah,

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Speaker 3: and I'm going to do what I want to do,

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Speaker 3: and hopefully it's successful enough that I'll get another opportunity

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Speaker 3: to keep doing it. But the rest of it, I

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Speaker 3: don't really. I just don't care anymore.

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Speaker 1: I get that the least the least interested party always wins.

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Speaker 1: I tell my twelve year old at school, if there's

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Speaker 1: a boy or something, I'm like, just relax, it's going

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Speaker 1: to be what it's going to be. It's funny that

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Speaker 1: you say that and I read part of your book

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Speaker 1: Brat that we're talking about. It's so much much more

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Speaker 1: than the title.

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Speaker 2: The writing.

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Speaker 1: You're really good writer. Like just the way you describe

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Speaker 1: some small, nuanced moment in a scene is really interesting.

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Speaker 1: Or when you met jack Linbussett, Like you're very very descriptive.

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Speaker 1: It's just really real. Like I was like reading more

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Speaker 1: than I needed to for this podcast, and I felt

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Speaker 1: like I was reading a book and I was like,

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Speaker 1: oh my god. I said to Jill Andrew and my publicist. Coincidentally,

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Speaker 1: I said to Jill, he's a good writer. Like I'm impressed.

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Speaker 1: So I like that you kind of have a whole

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Speaker 1: other layer to your life and career. And then that

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Speaker 1: there's travel. Is it that you love to travel? Is

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Speaker 1: it that you love to write or that you really

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Speaker 1: love to just write about travel?

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Speaker 3: Well, I mean, you know, acting changed my life. When

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Speaker 3: I was fifteen years old, I walked out on stage

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Speaker 3: in the high school plays the Artful Dodger in Oliver

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Speaker 3: and my life was different that you know, that's what

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Speaker 3: I'm That's what I'm and talking about. No crowdsourcing. I

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Speaker 3: knew it was so important to me that I didn't

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Speaker 3: tell a soul. I just went out something happened to me,

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Speaker 3: don't count anybody, And that's what I'm doing with my life.

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Speaker 3: And then you know, when I was traveling, I was

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Speaker 3: walking across the Comuno to San Antiago. It's a longer

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Speaker 3: answer than you want it, which is it's not very

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Speaker 3: insane to like twenty eight years ago and I had

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Speaker 3: a moment where I sort of at a moment of

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Speaker 3: clarity where I broke down in sobs in the middle

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Speaker 3: of this weet field and I realized how much some

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Speaker 3: of fear had dominated my life. And it was a

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Speaker 3: very liberating moment. And so I just started traveling the

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Speaker 3: world a lot alone and traveling because and then it

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Speaker 3: was like my university. I was kicked out of college

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Speaker 3: and travel was like my university. I discovered who I

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Speaker 3: was by being far from home and alone in the world.

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Speaker 3: And I thought paradoxically very safe alone far from home

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Speaker 3: in the world. And so then I just started writing

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Speaker 3: about that, and that is then evolved into books and stuff.

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Speaker 3: So I love I think travel is meaningful and changes

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Speaker 3: people's lives if we let it. And it's not just

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Speaker 3: about you know, bucketless and you know, Instagram shots. It's

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Speaker 3: profound and meaningful if we let it be. And so

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Speaker 3: that was important to me. And I felt the same

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Speaker 3: way and I did that that I felt when I

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Speaker 3: first started acting. You know, I felt like, oh, there

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Speaker 3: I am, that's me. I feel like me when I

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Speaker 3: do that, and so and then so I kept, then

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Speaker 3: I kept and the more I you know, and I'm

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Speaker 3: pretty much the loner in then anyway. So I love

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Speaker 3: to sit alone in the room and right does means

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Speaker 3: that day, you know, so you know, and then the

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Speaker 3: thing with that is that it's that it's received and

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Speaker 3: fellow success was great. But on the other hand, as

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Speaker 3: you know as well, it's like I'll always be oh,

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Speaker 3: he's the actor. I thinks he's a writer, now okay,

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Speaker 3: And to that I can do nothing about that. So

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Speaker 3: it's go whatever. If you bother to read it, you'll

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Speaker 3: have a real opinion as opposed to just some preconceived notion,

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Speaker 3: you know. And again that's none of my business.

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Speaker 1: Stuff, right, But how does this travel which seems like

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Speaker 1: and I want to get to your book when you

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Speaker 1: travel with your son, But how does this travel mesh

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Speaker 1: with your relationships? Because I think about things that I

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Speaker 1: like to do by myself, and there's certain types of

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Speaker 1: travel I like to do my myself and certain types

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Speaker 1: I like to do with my daughter, not with my partner.

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Speaker 1: And it sounds like there's a lot of exploration and solitude.

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Speaker 1: So how do you pull away? And you know, this

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Speaker 1: is like your city slickers, go find your smile a

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Speaker 1: happy place, Like how do you craft? How do you

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Speaker 1: get that? Because many people have all these you know,

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Speaker 1: the kids, the work, the obligation, the partner, and that's

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Speaker 1: your own thing.

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Speaker 3: I don't get to as much as anymore as the ants.

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Speaker 3: And I got all these pesky kids, and you know,

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Speaker 3: traveling with other people, it's a very different thing than

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Speaker 3: traveling alone. And you know, and that's fine. Great, So

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Speaker 3: I don't get to as much as I used to.

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Speaker 3: I still occasionally sneak away, but like next week, I'm

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Speaker 3: going to Botswana for a travel story for magazine and

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Speaker 3: I'm taking my nine year old son with me. And

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Speaker 3: you know, so you know, I told the magazine, go, okay,

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Speaker 3: that's great, I'll do the story. But I got to

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Speaker 3: take my nine year old because he wants to see elephants.

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Speaker 3: And so it's a great privilege, you know, right.

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Speaker 1: But it's different, it's different than you be. It's like

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Speaker 1: a little selfish travel.

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Speaker 3: Yeahs, it's entirely different, entirely.

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Speaker 2: Selfish travel to be like a blog or something.

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Speaker 1: So and also, you know, you've directed almost as much

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Speaker 1: as you've acted, like you've directed things that I was

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Speaker 1: surprised by.

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Speaker 2: I didn't.

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Speaker 1: I mean I was reading through everything about you, and

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Speaker 1: there have been a lot of the things that you've

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Speaker 1: touched that I definitely wouldn't have known. So how about

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Speaker 1: directing is that where does that fall on your list

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Speaker 1: of passions?

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Speaker 3: Well, you know, directing something I stumbled into because I

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Speaker 3: directed the early episodes of Orange is the New Black,

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Speaker 3: when that was still you know, when Netflix was like

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Speaker 3: people that sent you DVDs to your house and the mail,

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Speaker 3: and and so I directed a bunch of those, and

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Speaker 3: then suddenly came on with the Sensation of the Year,

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Speaker 3: and suddenly I was a brilliant director because I directed,

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Speaker 3: you know, and so I was successful then, and so

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Speaker 3: I just stumbled into this career of being a television director,

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Speaker 3: which I did and continue to do for you know,

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Speaker 3: last fifteen years or so. But I have to say

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Speaker 3: it's not as in all, directing televisions is ultimately not

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Speaker 3: very satisfying work. It's like, uh, you get in great shape.

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Speaker 3: It's sort of like going to the director gym. You know,

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Speaker 3: it's like working on one week and work and children,

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Speaker 3: but you're not really doing something deeply creative and satisfying. Ultimately,

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Speaker 3: I'm servicing your vision if I'm directing a TV show

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Speaker 3: that's not your own show. So it's not all. I've

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Speaker 3: come to a place where it's I'm quite proficient at it.

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Speaker 3: I you know, I'm good at it because it's just

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Speaker 3: something I've spent my whole life on sets, so I

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Speaker 3: know how they work, I know where time is wasted.

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Speaker 3: I know what one needs to do, and to be

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Speaker 3: a good TV director you have to be decisive and

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Speaker 3: I know how to make a decision, and so, you know,

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Speaker 3: I enjoy it, but ultimately I find it not that satisfying.

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Speaker 1: That's interesting because I thought that a little bit about acting,

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Speaker 1: because it's someone else's character, someone else's story, versus just

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Speaker 1: playing your being yourself, like being able to express yourself

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Speaker 1: and improvise. And I think about like shows like Curb

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Speaker 1: Your Enthusiasm where someone gets to just sort of riff

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Speaker 1: a little bit. So how does how do you get

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Speaker 1: to really explore as an actor when you're playing someone

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Speaker 1: else's words and someone else's character.

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Speaker 3: Well, that's entirely different, you know. But acting is funny

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Speaker 3: to me because it's like breathing to me. Like I

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Speaker 3: just thought I had acted on the show this last year.

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Speaker 3: I hadn't really acted in good ten years and acted

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Speaker 3: on the show for a season, and it was just

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Speaker 3: going back to it again. I'd learned so much in

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Speaker 3: that interval of ten years of working with actor, you know. So,

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Speaker 3: but there's something very different about it. It's not like that.

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Speaker 3: It's it's something very private and intimate with yourself in

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Speaker 3: a certain way where you know, I always directing is stressful.

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Speaker 3: An acting causes anxiety because you know you're trying to

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Speaker 3: summon things up inside you and sort of share them

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Speaker 3: in a way that you're both open and vulnerable and

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Speaker 3: yet protected. And so it's a complicated dance you're playing

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Speaker 3: with yourself if you're going to try and be truthfuughted

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Speaker 3: and good at it. So I just don't, you know,

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Speaker 3: I suppose first and foremost I'm an actor, So coming

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Speaker 3: back to it just feels very natural to me.

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Speaker 1: Right well, meeting you, I see you in a lot

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Speaker 1: of your the characters play, which is comforting. You know,

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Speaker 1: often you see someone and like they're nothing like the

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Speaker 1: characters that they've played. So you have managed to have

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Speaker 1: a career where well you don't may not want anyone

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Speaker 1: to know who you are, but who I'm not, Like, Wow,

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Speaker 1: he's nothing like he Wasn't you know what I'm saying? Like,

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Speaker 1: even in the early stuff, I'm seeing a little a

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Speaker 1: lot of you in you. Does that make any sense?

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Speaker 3: Sure? Of course? Yeah? I mean there's nothing to say

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Speaker 3: except yeah, I mean I'm not one of those I

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Speaker 3: am not a chameleon, It's true, But I'm trying to

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Speaker 3: reveal sort of it sounds so pretentious, but you just

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Speaker 3: want to reveal something truth so that truthful, so that

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Speaker 3: as are you watching and go oh, I feel that

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Speaker 3: and it's not your head. It's like in the same

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Speaker 3: thing in writing, if you can get the reader to

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Speaker 3: nod their head, you know, it's like, okay, I get

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Speaker 3: what you you know, then you have a connection and

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Speaker 3: that kind of all you ever really want with people somehow,

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Speaker 3: identification and connection and we're less alone And isn't that

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Speaker 3: what all this storytelling is about is to make people

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Speaker 3: less alone?

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Speaker 4: Yeah?

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Speaker 1: Can you answer what percentage? This is like a fantasy,

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Speaker 1: stupid question, but I just want to hear from your perspective,

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Speaker 1: what percentage do you think in your career? Is luck, work,

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Speaker 1: hard work, and skill? Like you know each is it

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Speaker 1: a third or third or third? Or have you been

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Speaker 1: very lucky or have you worked your ass off to

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Speaker 1: get there?

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Speaker 2: Like what's the combo?

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Speaker 3: You know? Ben Hogan was a great golfriend. He always

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Speaker 3: used to say the luck is in the dirt, meaning

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Speaker 3: he would practice hours and hours and hours hitting golf

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Speaker 3: balls in the dirt. And you know, the harder you work,

400
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Speaker 3: the luckier you get, I think and what I have

401
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Speaker 3: been wildly fortunate in their moments when people have helped

402
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Speaker 3: me in the most unlikely ways. And my first job

403
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Speaker 3: I ever got was because some a friend of mine

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Speaker 3: called me up and said, I saw an add in

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Speaker 3: the new newspaper. They're looking for someone eighteen vulnerable and

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Speaker 3: sensitive to beau leading a movie an loo can call

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Speaker 3: and I'm like, that's me. So Eddie and not called

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Speaker 3: me and told me that I never would have gone

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Speaker 3: to this open call with five hundred other eighteen vulnerable

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Speaker 3: and sensitive kids.

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Speaker 4: You know.

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Speaker 3: And time and time again, people have sort of angels

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Speaker 3: just passing through my life have just kind of pointed

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Speaker 3: something out, And if I have any ability, it's been

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Speaker 3: able to recognize that instant when someone points to something

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Speaker 3: for it to go. It's like that's in Star Wars

417
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Speaker 3: when they shoot that missile at the end and it

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Speaker 3: goes into the desk store and it finds its way down.

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Speaker 3: I've been able to hear those moments really and they

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Speaker 3: go deep and I go after those things. So that's

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Speaker 3: my skill in a certain way. But your block is

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Speaker 3: the massive porton timing, timing, timing, It's no matter you know,

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Speaker 3: the brat Pack happened, and those movies happened because of

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Speaker 3: what had been happening through the seventies and movies evolving

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Speaker 3: and then suddenly discovering of a youth market and then

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Speaker 3: you know, boom, there it happens, and John Hughes comes

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Speaker 3: along at that instant and so it's all And I

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Speaker 3: happen to be one of those guys at that instant.

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Speaker 1: Right, so I walked into the right room. You just

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Speaker 1: happened to walk into that room, and that room was

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Speaker 1: like yeah.

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Speaker 3: And then also when you walk into that room though

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Speaker 3: because other people walk into that room, you walk into

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Speaker 3: that room, you have to this is the moment right now,

435
00:20:11,440 --> 00:20:14,800
Speaker 3: deliver and you yes, when your moment comes, you have

436
00:20:14,840 --> 00:20:16,320
Speaker 3: to be ready to deliver. And there have been many

437
00:20:16,359 --> 00:20:18,199
Speaker 3: times in my life when I haven't been ready when

438
00:20:18,240 --> 00:20:18,560
Speaker 3: the moment.

439
00:20:18,640 --> 00:20:22,000
Speaker 1: Yes, well yes, that makes me think of like you're

440
00:20:22,000 --> 00:20:25,080
Speaker 1: on the boat, you have your net, you're prepared, you know,

441
00:20:25,359 --> 00:20:27,919
Speaker 1: you're centered, and then like so you are you know

442
00:20:27,960 --> 00:20:29,880
Speaker 1: how to go where the fish are? Or for surfers,

443
00:20:29,920 --> 00:20:31,880
Speaker 1: I always think it's like a set. You know, there's

444
00:20:31,920 --> 00:20:33,480
Speaker 1: a lot of shitty waves that come and if you

445
00:20:33,520 --> 00:20:35,360
Speaker 1: try to battle it and like go in and get

446
00:20:35,359 --> 00:20:38,040
Speaker 1: beaten down you're too tired for when the good set comes,

447
00:20:38,119 --> 00:20:40,080
Speaker 1: or you can just sit and chill and wait and

448
00:20:40,119 --> 00:20:42,600
Speaker 1: you're like, this is about to be a good set,

449
00:20:42,680 --> 00:20:44,880
Speaker 1: you know, I think does a million.

450
00:20:45,600 --> 00:20:48,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think that's very true. And we do beat ourselves.

451
00:20:48,720 --> 00:20:51,760
Speaker 3: I mean so many times I'm just grinding to try

452
00:20:51,760 --> 00:20:53,800
Speaker 3: and make a not good set into a good one,

453
00:20:53,840 --> 00:20:56,560
Speaker 3: and it's like, this isn't a good waight, no matter

454
00:20:56,600 --> 00:20:58,919
Speaker 3: what you're doing here and how hard you're beating yourself

455
00:20:59,000 --> 00:21:01,600
Speaker 3: up and grinding, this is never going to be a

456
00:21:01,640 --> 00:21:04,399
Speaker 3: good ride here. So and now you just missed a

457
00:21:04,400 --> 00:21:04,879
Speaker 3: good one.

458
00:21:04,720 --> 00:21:08,400
Speaker 1: Because exactly, thank you, exactly exactly. So that's what that's

459
00:21:08,440 --> 00:21:10,280
Speaker 1: that's what I think you have.

460
00:21:10,240 --> 00:21:11,000
Speaker 3: To be able to write.

461
00:21:11,040 --> 00:21:11,080
Speaker 2: You.

462
00:21:11,160 --> 00:21:14,280
Speaker 3: That takes trust in waiting for that okay, I wait

463
00:21:14,320 --> 00:21:16,840
Speaker 3: for this and then knowing when it's coming. Okay, go

464
00:21:17,040 --> 00:21:20,280
Speaker 3: because often those good waves to carry this metaphor are

465
00:21:20,320 --> 00:21:21,600
Speaker 3: a little bigger than we're comfortable.

466
00:21:21,680 --> 00:21:24,520
Speaker 1: Yes, you better fucking ride that thing like it's your

467
00:21:25,560 --> 00:21:26,600
Speaker 1: play tennis the best.

468
00:21:26,800 --> 00:21:30,240
Speaker 3: Yeah, fear takes over you somehow don't quite catch it right,

469
00:21:30,400 --> 00:21:32,240
Speaker 3: and you can blame all sorts of things, but it's

470
00:21:32,240 --> 00:21:35,480
Speaker 3: really fear that made you miss it. And so those

471
00:21:35,680 --> 00:21:37,840
Speaker 3: waves will always be bigger than we're ready for if

472
00:21:37,840 --> 00:21:40,200
Speaker 3: you wanted success to take you to the next level, right,

473
00:21:40,240 --> 00:21:43,119
Speaker 3: And I've often I've found myself missing those waves at

474
00:21:43,160 --> 00:21:46,119
Speaker 3: times because I doubt it an instant when you just

475
00:21:46,200 --> 00:21:47,520
Speaker 3: need to go one hunt.

476
00:21:47,560 --> 00:21:49,480
Speaker 1: That's a great it's so true. That's such a true

477
00:21:49,680 --> 00:21:51,280
Speaker 1: thing about it. The waves a little bigger than you,

478
00:21:51,320 --> 00:21:53,239
Speaker 1: but too bad. This is your moment you ride it.

479
00:21:53,240 --> 00:21:57,159
Speaker 1: That's so so interesting. And Kelly Rippa said to me

480
00:21:58,480 --> 00:22:02,199
Speaker 1: alcohol is unnecess which I thought. I always say to her,

481
00:22:02,200 --> 00:22:04,080
Speaker 1: you like a little wise owl. So what do you

482
00:22:04,119 --> 00:22:05,720
Speaker 1: think about that sentence.

483
00:22:07,440 --> 00:22:10,800
Speaker 3: I mean, clearly it is. I mean it'll almost destroyed

484
00:22:10,800 --> 00:22:14,119
Speaker 3: my life, But I mean clearly it's unnecessary. I mean

485
00:22:14,119 --> 00:22:16,000
Speaker 3: I've lived without it for thirty years now, I've gotten

486
00:22:16,040 --> 00:22:20,120
Speaker 3: much better. But it did. But it's also I thought

487
00:22:20,160 --> 00:22:23,040
Speaker 3: it was it became necessary. There's a certain you know,

488
00:22:23,080 --> 00:22:25,040
Speaker 3: if you have a problem with alcohol and you're attracted

489
00:22:25,040 --> 00:22:27,120
Speaker 3: to alcohol and it's attracted to you and you meet,

490
00:22:27,640 --> 00:22:30,199
Speaker 3: it seems like it's solving a lot of problems. You know.

491
00:22:30,240 --> 00:22:33,160
Speaker 3: There's a great line. A man takes a drink. Then

492
00:22:33,160 --> 00:22:35,480
Speaker 3: a drink takes a drink, Then the drink takes the man,

493
00:22:35,920 --> 00:22:39,119
Speaker 3: you know, and you don't know when that's happening. You know,

494
00:22:39,200 --> 00:22:41,560
Speaker 3: alcohol it's a good kind of sea and a social

495
00:22:41,600 --> 00:22:44,040
Speaker 3: lubricant and even professional one. And at a certain point

496
00:22:44,040 --> 00:22:46,760
Speaker 3: it turns in and attacks you. But that point of

497
00:22:46,800 --> 00:22:50,200
Speaker 3: when it does that is invisible and in my experience,

498
00:22:50,440 --> 00:22:54,520
Speaker 3: and so you know, alcohol is a slippery slope. You

499
00:22:54,560 --> 00:22:57,880
Speaker 3: know it's me It was vicious, you know.

500
00:22:58,400 --> 00:23:02,400
Speaker 2: It really was. That was during that time years no id.

501
00:23:02,280 --> 00:23:04,160
Speaker 3: Stopped drinking by that, And it took me a long time.

502
00:23:04,440 --> 00:23:06,960
Speaker 3: I stopped drinking in ninety two, and I'd tak for

503
00:23:07,000 --> 00:23:09,440
Speaker 3: ten years after that. I was in the wild professionally.

504
00:23:09,720 --> 00:23:12,160
Speaker 3: But I also would say it took me a long time.

505
00:23:13,119 --> 00:23:15,760
Speaker 3: It's for my head to clear and emotionally to get

506
00:23:15,800 --> 00:23:20,040
Speaker 3: myself under me again. After I stopped, I drank probably

507
00:23:20,240 --> 00:23:23,920
Speaker 3: for about ten years in a serious way, maybe eight,

508
00:23:25,880 --> 00:23:29,359
Speaker 3: and in a way that was destructive, and so it

509
00:23:29,400 --> 00:23:31,000
Speaker 3: took a while to recover from that.

510
00:23:31,600 --> 00:23:34,000
Speaker 1: But it's not even something you think about now, right,

511
00:23:34,080 --> 00:23:35,760
Speaker 1: do you even think about it? It's just like something

512
00:23:35,960 --> 00:23:36,879
Speaker 1: that somebody used to know.

513
00:23:37,000 --> 00:23:40,720
Speaker 3: Now, well, it just is now, you know. But any

514
00:23:40,800 --> 00:23:44,680
Speaker 3: good alcohol will tell you which I consider myself when

515
00:23:44,800 --> 00:23:46,760
Speaker 3: all bets are off for tomorrow, you know, in a

516
00:23:46,760 --> 00:23:48,639
Speaker 3: certain way. A call. It's a funny thing, you know,

517
00:23:48,720 --> 00:23:51,080
Speaker 3: and it's a slippery slope, you know, like we said.

518
00:23:51,119 --> 00:23:53,960
Speaker 3: And so I mean, yes, it's very much. My life

519
00:23:53,960 --> 00:23:58,360
Speaker 3: now is very much being not drinking. It just is

520
00:23:58,440 --> 00:24:00,919
Speaker 3: in my life. But again I think, you know, I

521
00:24:00,960 --> 00:24:03,639
Speaker 3: don't think I'm a cucumber. Again. I think once you

522
00:24:03,680 --> 00:24:07,760
Speaker 3: pick the cucumber, it's a pickle. I four its more

523
00:24:08,080 --> 00:24:10,600
Speaker 3: vodka down my throat. It would be a great idea.

524
00:24:11,640 --> 00:24:14,560
Speaker 3: Too much too. I have a wondrous life, you know,

525
00:24:14,560 --> 00:24:15,840
Speaker 3: and I have too much to lose.

526
00:24:15,920 --> 00:24:21,200
Speaker 1: And yeah, well I did not know that your son

527
00:24:21,240 --> 00:24:24,399
Speaker 1: was your son. And I watched Dead to Me with

528
00:24:24,440 --> 00:24:26,919
Speaker 1: my daughter, and like, now it makes sense to me.

529
00:24:27,000 --> 00:24:30,640
Speaker 1: He's an interesting actor and he's a little he's Depp.

530
00:24:30,720 --> 00:24:34,520
Speaker 1: He's got depth charm complex, you know, the boyish charm

531
00:24:34,800 --> 00:24:37,320
Speaker 1: that you have. So that makes when I heard that,

532
00:24:37,359 --> 00:24:40,400
Speaker 1: I'm like, wow, that's so interesting. So he's an actor.

533
00:24:41,119 --> 00:24:45,399
Speaker 1: And how old your daughter she's twelve, it's young for

534
00:24:45,400 --> 00:24:47,600
Speaker 1: her to watch that stuff, but she watches. She watched

535
00:24:47,640 --> 00:24:49,400
Speaker 1: Handmaid's Tale, she walked in and she fell in love

536
00:24:49,400 --> 00:24:51,000
Speaker 1: with it. I was watching crazy stuff when I was

537
00:24:51,000 --> 00:24:52,400
Speaker 1: a kid, So that's okay.

538
00:24:52,720 --> 00:24:54,119
Speaker 2: How old is he? How old is Sam?

539
00:24:54,640 --> 00:24:57,240
Speaker 1: That is twenty one now, so he's twenty one. And

540
00:24:57,359 --> 00:24:59,880
Speaker 1: have you always been close and had a good relationship

541
00:25:00,119 --> 00:25:00,480
Speaker 1: with him?

542
00:25:01,359 --> 00:25:03,960
Speaker 3: Yes, it's the simple answer. Yes we did. I mean

543
00:25:04,200 --> 00:25:07,280
Speaker 3: I was terrified of my father and had no relationship

544
00:25:07,320 --> 00:25:11,160
Speaker 3: with my father at all when I left home at seventeen.

545
00:25:11,200 --> 00:25:13,359
Speaker 3: I never that was the end of a relationship really

546
00:25:13,680 --> 00:25:17,320
Speaker 3: and until he was dying basically when I went to him.

547
00:25:17,680 --> 00:25:20,919
Speaker 3: But so he was really, you know, kind of the

548
00:25:20,920 --> 00:25:23,840
Speaker 3: most important thing in my life. I always if I

549
00:25:23,880 --> 00:25:27,040
Speaker 3: have a relationship with my adult children, If my children

550
00:25:27,119 --> 00:25:28,960
Speaker 3: are adults and they want to have a relationship with

551
00:25:29,000 --> 00:25:31,000
Speaker 3: me throughout their life, than my life will have been

552
00:25:31,160 --> 00:25:31,840
Speaker 3: a great success.

553
00:25:31,960 --> 00:25:34,920
Speaker 1: Literally, same story, same exact whole story as the last

554
00:25:35,040 --> 00:25:37,840
Speaker 1: minute of what you said. So I really really get that.

555
00:25:38,080 --> 00:25:42,240
Speaker 1: And do you overcompensate? Because have you overcompensated?

556
00:25:42,359 --> 00:25:42,520
Speaker 2: You know?

557
00:25:42,560 --> 00:25:45,879
Speaker 1: I feel like we're the world our kids. When we

558
00:25:45,880 --> 00:25:48,040
Speaker 1: were kids, people just were like, let out the backyard

559
00:25:48,160 --> 00:25:50,400
Speaker 1: with us. We're doing everything with our kids. We're bonding,

560
00:25:50,400 --> 00:25:53,360
Speaker 1: we're having moments, we're having experiences, we're talking about our feelings,

561
00:25:53,560 --> 00:25:55,359
Speaker 1: which we're going to get into your book in a minute.

562
00:25:55,359 --> 00:25:57,160
Speaker 1: But have you do you feel like you've done a

563
00:25:57,200 --> 00:25:58,320
Speaker 1: decent job as a parent.

564
00:25:58,840 --> 00:26:01,560
Speaker 3: I'm present for that and I shall, you know. I

565
00:26:01,600 --> 00:26:04,760
Speaker 3: tell them the truth as much as I can, and

566
00:26:04,840 --> 00:26:09,080
Speaker 3: I you know, but if I've overcompetated, it was that

567
00:26:09,160 --> 00:26:11,400
Speaker 3: I think I wanted. I was afraid of the day

568
00:26:11,520 --> 00:26:14,000
Speaker 3: that my kids would just my oldest son particularly say

569
00:26:14,440 --> 00:26:16,359
Speaker 3: would just wake up and hate me the way it came,

570
00:26:17,040 --> 00:26:20,159
Speaker 3: and so I overcompetated in that, and I think in

571
00:26:20,280 --> 00:26:24,320
Speaker 3: trying to prevent that, it's sure as it happens. So

572
00:26:24,400 --> 00:26:28,159
Speaker 3: I give it relaxed enough at a certain point to

573
00:26:28,240 --> 00:26:30,760
Speaker 3: just trust that my relationship with him is not the

574
00:26:30,800 --> 00:26:33,360
Speaker 3: one I had with my father, and it's a different thing.

575
00:26:33,960 --> 00:26:36,119
Speaker 1: It's so funny that you say that, because we see

576
00:26:36,160 --> 00:26:39,600
Speaker 1: some of the things we see our parents in us,

577
00:26:39,640 --> 00:26:42,960
Speaker 1: whether we you know, loved them, hated them, you know,

578
00:26:43,280 --> 00:26:45,000
Speaker 1: so we see it, and I have the exact same

579
00:26:45,040 --> 00:26:47,560
Speaker 1: thing where I'll do something or i'll say something, and

580
00:26:47,600 --> 00:26:52,280
Speaker 1: obviously I'm acres away from my parents, but I have

581
00:26:52,359 --> 00:26:55,040
Speaker 1: that same thought sometimes and I'm obviously ten years, nine

582
00:26:55,119 --> 00:26:57,439
Speaker 1: years behind you, but I really I know exactly what

583
00:26:57,480 --> 00:26:58,040
Speaker 1: you're talking about.

584
00:26:58,040 --> 00:26:58,840
Speaker 2: It's not even a ration.

585
00:26:58,960 --> 00:27:01,800
Speaker 1: It's rational, but sort of not rational because with the

586
00:27:01,880 --> 00:27:03,920
Speaker 1: kind of parenting it seems like you're doing and I've done,

587
00:27:03,920 --> 00:27:06,040
Speaker 1: there'd be no reason for there to be no relationship.

588
00:27:06,040 --> 00:27:09,600
Speaker 1: But it is a realistic fear. I mean, it makes sense.

589
00:27:10,600 --> 00:27:13,359
Speaker 3: Yeah, And I mean that's why I that's why we

590
00:27:13,400 --> 00:27:16,320
Speaker 3: walked across Spain together. Was I wanted to sort of

591
00:27:17,480 --> 00:27:19,600
Speaker 3: segue because you know, now he was nineteen when we

592
00:27:19,640 --> 00:27:23,639
Speaker 3: did that, and we we he wasn't going to tolerate,

593
00:27:23,680 --> 00:27:25,280
Speaker 3: you know, day to day parenting anymore. So we had

594
00:27:25,280 --> 00:27:27,000
Speaker 3: to what's going to fill that void? You know? And

595
00:27:27,080 --> 00:27:29,439
Speaker 3: I wanted to show him who I was and to

596
00:27:29,600 --> 00:27:33,520
Speaker 3: be to you know, the relationship just had to change

597
00:27:33,560 --> 00:27:35,040
Speaker 3: in a certain way if it was going to grow

598
00:27:35,160 --> 00:27:38,280
Speaker 3: to a deeper level as opposed to parent and child.

599
00:27:38,720 --> 00:27:41,320
Speaker 2: Wow, tolerate day to day parenting.

600
00:27:41,440 --> 00:27:44,359
Speaker 1: That's really interesting and smart, and I've never heard anyone

601
00:27:44,400 --> 00:27:46,720
Speaker 1: else say that before. He wasn't because it's true that

602
00:27:46,800 --> 00:27:51,199
Speaker 1: like a real even relationship from like a baby. For me,

603
00:27:51,320 --> 00:27:53,280
Speaker 1: it's been like a baby to a tween, like you're

604
00:27:53,280 --> 00:27:55,080
Speaker 1: a human being. You have your own decisions, Like I

605
00:27:55,119 --> 00:27:56,760
Speaker 1: can't just go in there and like pack for you

606
00:27:57,040 --> 00:27:59,240
Speaker 1: as I want to, or organize your closet or.

607
00:27:59,200 --> 00:27:59,680
Speaker 2: Make you eat.

608
00:27:59,680 --> 00:28:02,760
Speaker 1: Think, you know, that's interesting. So Walking with Sam is

609
00:28:02,760 --> 00:28:07,760
Speaker 1: the book that you wrote to bridge being someone that

610
00:28:07,880 --> 00:28:10,920
Speaker 1: you're parenting to being you know some of you have

611
00:28:10,960 --> 00:28:14,359
Speaker 1: a different parental relationship with. And what was that actually?

612
00:28:14,440 --> 00:28:15,960
Speaker 1: Like how long was the trip?

613
00:28:16,520 --> 00:28:19,359
Speaker 3: We walked for five hundred miles and it was about

614
00:28:19,359 --> 00:28:22,040
Speaker 3: a month, and it was you know, it was life

615
00:28:22,080 --> 00:28:24,800
Speaker 3: changing deep Like I said, I did it twenty seven

616
00:28:24,880 --> 00:28:26,640
Speaker 3: years ago, and it was life changing the first time

617
00:28:26,680 --> 00:28:29,119
Speaker 3: when I, as I was mentioning earlier, how fear was

618
00:28:29,119 --> 00:28:31,360
Speaker 3: revealed to me and that changed my life. And this

619
00:28:31,480 --> 00:28:36,240
Speaker 3: changed book. It changed our relationship, the dynamic of it

620
00:28:36,440 --> 00:28:42,280
Speaker 3: just I grew to just trust it more and did

621
00:28:42,320 --> 00:28:45,240
Speaker 3: not need to fix and have answers and solve things.

622
00:28:45,280 --> 00:28:47,680
Speaker 3: I had the great luxury that you rarely have with

623
00:28:47,760 --> 00:28:50,360
Speaker 3: adult children, which is time. You know, I was walking

624
00:28:50,360 --> 00:28:52,960
Speaker 3: beside them every day for five hundred miles, and I

625
00:28:53,000 --> 00:28:55,880
Speaker 3: didn't need to solve the problems and give advice. I

626
00:28:56,000 --> 00:28:58,920
Speaker 3: just mostly just shut up and or just let him

627
00:28:58,960 --> 00:29:02,160
Speaker 3: talk dog. Maybe you have one little thought, you know,

628
00:29:02,200 --> 00:29:04,200
Speaker 3: when I did that, this happened, and I'll let him

629
00:29:04,200 --> 00:29:07,560
Speaker 3: find his own way so that he then you know,

630
00:29:07,600 --> 00:29:10,600
Speaker 3: one of the things, it's like, I've always you advocate

631
00:29:10,640 --> 00:29:12,680
Speaker 3: for your children, but at a certain point, as they're

632
00:29:12,680 --> 00:29:17,000
Speaker 3: growing and grow into their adulthood, you advocate for them

633
00:29:17,080 --> 00:29:20,440
Speaker 3: to them, meaning I'm going to tell you what I

634
00:29:20,480 --> 00:29:23,760
Speaker 3: really think here, Sam, and take it, take it or

635
00:29:23,880 --> 00:29:26,080
Speaker 3: leave it. But I'm advocating for you because I believe

636
00:29:26,080 --> 00:29:28,440
Speaker 3: this in what you're saying, and you can choose to believe.

637
00:29:28,480 --> 00:29:30,080
Speaker 3: And so if he knows I'm being truthful and really

638
00:29:30,120 --> 00:29:32,120
Speaker 3: advocating for him, and I have his best interest in

639
00:29:32,160 --> 00:29:34,719
Speaker 3: my heart. Whether he agrees with it or not, it's fine.

640
00:29:35,000 --> 00:29:36,600
Speaker 3: But he's more likely to come to me and go.

641
00:29:36,840 --> 00:29:38,680
Speaker 3: My son called me the other day and said, tell

642
00:29:38,680 --> 00:29:41,720
Speaker 3: you've got seven minutes. I'm like, yeah, go, And he said,

643
00:29:41,760 --> 00:29:44,840
Speaker 3: I'm thinking this about my relationship. And I just listened

644
00:29:44,840 --> 00:29:47,760
Speaker 3: to that sounds about right, that sounds human. All right,

645
00:29:47,800 --> 00:29:52,600
Speaker 3: got to go buy you know. And so it's it's

646
00:29:52,640 --> 00:29:54,960
Speaker 3: just changing. And I never had that with my father.

647
00:29:55,040 --> 00:29:57,280
Speaker 3: My father's a terrifying man. And then there was no relationship,

648
00:29:57,360 --> 00:30:00,280
Speaker 3: so there's no put forward in my life, so us

649
00:30:00,320 --> 00:30:04,479
Speaker 3: figuring out how to be there and be sort of

650
00:30:04,720 --> 00:30:06,320
Speaker 3: how do we buy? And I'm not interested in being

651
00:30:06,320 --> 00:30:09,280
Speaker 3: my son's powers buddy and his dad always be his dad.

652
00:30:09,320 --> 00:30:11,760
Speaker 3: That's what I want. Go out into the world, look

653
00:30:11,800 --> 00:30:14,640
Speaker 3: behind you, and I'm here, but you go on and

654
00:30:14,680 --> 00:30:17,480
Speaker 3: I'll be back. And you know that's and so anyway

655
00:30:17,520 --> 00:30:19,680
Speaker 3: I walk. And the book is about coming to know

656
00:30:19,760 --> 00:30:22,880
Speaker 3: each other as adults and sort of parenting and childing

657
00:30:22,880 --> 00:30:25,360
Speaker 3: and you know what that entails.

658
00:30:25,840 --> 00:30:27,640
Speaker 1: It's so funny because the thing that jumped off the

659
00:30:27,640 --> 00:30:30,880
Speaker 1: page is you saying, let him talk. And I find that,

660
00:30:31,680 --> 00:30:34,880
Speaker 1: you know, how is school today? That stupid thing that

661
00:30:34,960 --> 00:30:37,239
Speaker 1: starts when kids are young is the worst. Like they

662
00:30:37,280 --> 00:30:39,240
Speaker 1: will never tell you how school is? And how is that?

663
00:30:39,280 --> 00:30:40,160
Speaker 1: And who to hang out with?

664
00:30:40,200 --> 00:30:40,480
Speaker 2: Today?

665
00:30:40,520 --> 00:30:43,080
Speaker 1: What how is whatever? Like it's the worst thing ever.

666
00:30:43,280 --> 00:30:45,880
Speaker 1: They'll never say anything. Then, and I find that, you know,

667
00:30:46,840 --> 00:30:49,040
Speaker 1: my daughter's a very old soul, and she'll say to me,

668
00:30:49,360 --> 00:30:51,240
Speaker 1: can we be present? Like she'll say that at a

669
00:30:51,320 --> 00:30:54,280
Speaker 1: meal or in a car. And I realize, because and

670
00:30:54,320 --> 00:30:56,200
Speaker 1: I put all the pieces together, that those are the

671
00:30:56,240 --> 00:30:59,080
Speaker 1: places where we're just screwing around, eating fried food or

672
00:30:59,120 --> 00:31:02,320
Speaker 1: just driving somewhere, and those are the times when she'll

673
00:31:02,360 --> 00:31:04,520
Speaker 1: start saying, just out of nowhere, something that you would

674
00:31:04,520 --> 00:31:06,760
Speaker 1: never think she'd say. She'll be like, this person was

675
00:31:06,800 --> 00:31:09,360
Speaker 1: mean to me today, something that's monumental like for her

676
00:31:09,400 --> 00:31:11,560
Speaker 1: to say to me, And you never get that in

677
00:31:11,640 --> 00:31:15,200
Speaker 1: those sort of proactive moments. So I really, I really,

678
00:31:15,280 --> 00:31:17,840
Speaker 1: I can't imagine what it would be like to be

679
00:31:17,920 --> 00:31:21,280
Speaker 1: on a month long trip and what would come out

680
00:31:21,320 --> 00:31:23,360
Speaker 1: by just sitting back and being present.

681
00:31:23,920 --> 00:31:25,920
Speaker 3: You know, my son, you sit him down for a chat,

682
00:31:25,920 --> 00:31:27,280
Speaker 3: you never get a word out of him, but you

683
00:31:27,320 --> 00:31:29,520
Speaker 3: get a move and adventures. You know. He had just

684
00:31:29,560 --> 00:31:31,360
Speaker 3: broken up with his first love, which is why we

685
00:31:31,400 --> 00:31:33,640
Speaker 3: went on the trip from the first place. He was nineteen,

686
00:31:33,680 --> 00:31:35,200
Speaker 3: He had just broke it out of the relationship for

687
00:31:35,200 --> 00:31:36,600
Speaker 3: a year. It was a big deal. It was his

688
00:31:36,600 --> 00:31:40,200
Speaker 3: first heartache. And he gave to me said, Dad, if

689
00:31:40,200 --> 00:31:42,600
Speaker 3: you ever want to do that stupid walk you always

690
00:31:42,640 --> 00:31:45,640
Speaker 3: talk about, I'll go do it. And I literally went

691
00:31:45,680 --> 00:31:48,480
Speaker 3: from that concert to the other room my computer, bought

692
00:31:48,480 --> 00:31:51,120
Speaker 3: two tickets, and two days later we were in Spain

693
00:31:51,160 --> 00:31:54,640
Speaker 3: walking not mine, you know. And so every morning we'd

694
00:31:54,680 --> 00:31:58,000
Speaker 3: wake up and we'd start walking, and I just knew,

695
00:31:58,200 --> 00:32:00,680
Speaker 3: just wait, just wait, and whether it took fifteen minutes

696
00:32:00,800 --> 00:32:03,800
Speaker 3: or an hour, eventually, Sam, which is so so then

697
00:32:03,840 --> 00:32:05,720
Speaker 3: she said, and I said, we're in the middle of

698
00:32:05,760 --> 00:32:07,880
Speaker 3: a conversation and it'll always start pouring out, and he

699
00:32:08,000 --> 00:32:10,440
Speaker 3: just needed to heal and talk, and I was the

700
00:32:10,440 --> 00:32:11,760
Speaker 3: one that got to be there. And that was a

701
00:32:11,760 --> 00:32:14,920
Speaker 3: great blessing and gift for me to be able to

702
00:32:14,920 --> 00:32:18,120
Speaker 3: be present from that. You know, yes, you know, because

703
00:32:18,200 --> 00:32:20,080
Speaker 3: when kids are little we were talking about he reminded

704
00:32:20,120 --> 00:32:22,200
Speaker 3: me earlier, when you're talking about your daughter. No longer,

705
00:32:22,240 --> 00:32:23,880
Speaker 3: you know, you can't tell him what to wear anymore.

706
00:32:24,280 --> 00:32:27,320
Speaker 3: And like my youngest son is nine, I still have

707
00:32:27,440 --> 00:32:29,640
Speaker 3: that great luxury of being able to just make him

708
00:32:29,640 --> 00:32:32,040
Speaker 3: happy with whatever I do. You know, I can just

709
00:32:32,080 --> 00:32:34,800
Speaker 3: make him happy. And it is you know, and that's

710
00:32:35,040 --> 00:32:37,480
Speaker 3: long gone, you know, you're it's gone with you now

711
00:32:37,480 --> 00:32:39,840
Speaker 3: at twelve, and it's gone with my adult son. And

712
00:32:39,880 --> 00:32:43,120
Speaker 3: so it's a different dynamic that has to take its place,

713
00:32:43,120 --> 00:32:47,480
Speaker 3: and that takes active. I'm discovering active, you know, choice.

714
00:32:47,280 --> 00:32:49,720
Speaker 1: Right, But you're right, it's always a non sequity. So

715
00:32:49,800 --> 00:32:51,160
Speaker 1: you're sitting back. Do he used to be able to

716
00:32:51,280 --> 00:32:52,920
Speaker 1: take a bath? You know, I'd be a bath And

717
00:32:53,000 --> 00:33:08,920
Speaker 1: she just says something, So that's a good lesson. Wow, well,

718
00:33:08,920 --> 00:33:10,440
Speaker 1: hold on, you have a nine year old and a

719
00:33:10,520 --> 00:33:11,480
Speaker 1: twenty one year old and.

720
00:33:11,440 --> 00:33:12,480
Speaker 2: How old your middle child?

721
00:33:12,560 --> 00:33:13,480
Speaker 3: And she's sixteen.

722
00:33:13,960 --> 00:33:15,920
Speaker 2: Oh, so you're like in between all the things I'm

723
00:33:15,960 --> 00:33:17,880
Speaker 2: talking about, and that's very interesting.

724
00:33:18,040 --> 00:33:18,840
Speaker 3: Yeah.

725
00:33:18,880 --> 00:33:22,760
Speaker 1: Wow, those are like you're like in every aspect that's

726
00:33:22,840 --> 00:33:23,680
Speaker 1: of childhood.

727
00:33:23,720 --> 00:33:24,360
Speaker 2: That's crazy.

728
00:33:25,400 --> 00:33:27,840
Speaker 1: What has what has been your rose and your thorn

729
00:33:27,960 --> 00:33:30,880
Speaker 1: of your career, not your life, not parenting, just your career,

730
00:33:31,640 --> 00:33:34,240
Speaker 1: like the high the best thing that you could just

731
00:33:34,240 --> 00:33:35,960
Speaker 1: remember off the top of your head and the worst

732
00:33:35,960 --> 00:33:37,760
Speaker 1: thing if you can. And it may be the same thing.

733
00:33:38,080 --> 00:33:39,400
Speaker 3: It is the same thing. It's when I was in

734
00:33:39,440 --> 00:33:44,160
Speaker 3: the brad pap you know. Wow, it's both, although I

735
00:33:44,160 --> 00:33:48,040
Speaker 3: find it much more interesting now, but that was professionally.

736
00:33:48,080 --> 00:33:52,440
Speaker 3: That was you know, the bloom and the thorn. It's simultaneously,

737
00:33:52,440 --> 00:33:54,680
Speaker 3: for sure. And I'll always be you know, it's the

738
00:33:54,720 --> 00:33:56,160
Speaker 3: first thing you'll say to me, oh when you're in

739
00:33:56,160 --> 00:33:59,240
Speaker 3: the brada, of course, and that's always and you know

740
00:34:00,200 --> 00:34:02,400
Speaker 3: what that be a dry flower on my shelf is

741
00:34:02,400 --> 00:34:03,800
Speaker 3: a great thing as supposed.

742
00:34:03,440 --> 00:34:07,120
Speaker 1: To like fucking you know, I get it, Yes, I

743
00:34:07,160 --> 00:34:09,279
Speaker 1: get it. I'm having a great time right now. I

744
00:34:09,280 --> 00:34:11,879
Speaker 1: have a podcast re talking about the Housewives and talking

745
00:34:11,920 --> 00:34:14,920
Speaker 1: about real normal issues via the shit show that it

746
00:34:15,000 --> 00:34:16,840
Speaker 1: sometimes is, and I'm having a good time. It's like

747
00:34:16,920 --> 00:34:19,720
Speaker 1: nice when you can have a good relationship with something

748
00:34:19,800 --> 00:34:21,600
Speaker 1: you know that you didn't have a good relationship with.

749
00:34:21,680 --> 00:34:25,120
Speaker 1: It's really it's nice. I fully get that you're further

750
00:34:25,480 --> 00:34:28,800
Speaker 1: away from it. But also I was when I was

751
00:34:28,840 --> 00:34:31,480
Speaker 1: looking through at who the rap pack was and the movies,

752
00:34:31,920 --> 00:34:34,920
Speaker 1: It's rare that so many people would have had a

753
00:34:34,960 --> 00:34:38,200
Speaker 1: career with longevity and like a roller coaster ride, people

754
00:34:38,239 --> 00:34:40,880
Speaker 1: have had, you know, have really hit it and then

755
00:34:41,000 --> 00:34:44,120
Speaker 1: had a lull, but like overall, most people in that

756
00:34:44,200 --> 00:34:47,160
Speaker 1: group have been successful, right, Like I mean I'm looking

757
00:34:47,160 --> 00:34:49,960
Speaker 1: at I was looking at the Outsiders, looking at saying

758
00:34:49,960 --> 00:34:51,840
Speaker 1: I'm a spire. I was looking at all those movies.

759
00:34:51,880 --> 00:34:53,360
Speaker 1: People have had good careers.

760
00:34:53,680 --> 00:34:55,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean people are still hanging around, you know,

761
00:34:55,400 --> 00:34:58,080
Speaker 3: and that's long. It's you know, almost forty years ars ago.

762
00:34:58,640 --> 00:35:03,239
Speaker 3: And yeah, but interesting because ultimately I think the broad pack,

763
00:35:03,320 --> 00:35:05,040
Speaker 3: you know, and I'm in the middle of making documentary

764
00:35:05,080 --> 00:35:07,000
Speaker 3: about the broad Pack, and actually, I've got to see

765
00:35:07,040 --> 00:35:09,080
Speaker 3: a bunch of the people who I hadn't talked to

766
00:35:09,239 --> 00:35:12,640
Speaker 3: in thirty odd years. And you know, if I've been

767
00:35:12,680 --> 00:35:15,719
Speaker 3: in the same movies and the term brad Pack didn't exist,

768
00:35:16,000 --> 00:35:18,399
Speaker 3: I would be some guy who was in a bunch

769
00:35:18,480 --> 00:35:21,480
Speaker 3: of some of these movies. But because the Brat, I'm

770
00:35:21,520 --> 00:35:25,320
Speaker 3: part of this iconic thing that happened in pop culture,

771
00:35:25,680 --> 00:35:28,400
Speaker 3: you know. So it's you know, ultimately I think been

772
00:35:28,440 --> 00:35:30,880
Speaker 3: a you know, a real blessing, which it just like

773
00:35:30,920 --> 00:35:33,440
Speaker 3: if you told me that even ten years ago, I

774
00:35:33,480 --> 00:35:34,720
Speaker 3: would have said, you're out of your mind.

775
00:35:35,280 --> 00:35:38,040
Speaker 1: Interesting, you were part of a pop culture phenomenon. I

776
00:35:38,120 --> 00:35:40,759
Speaker 1: relate to that too, for better or for worse, the negatives.

777
00:35:40,760 --> 00:35:43,080
Speaker 1: And that's funny, Like you're part of something that was

778
00:35:43,200 --> 00:35:47,160
Speaker 1: in the zeitgeist in you know, Like that's so interesting.

779
00:35:47,640 --> 00:35:50,279
Speaker 1: And are you does everybody are you? Are you do

780
00:35:50,480 --> 00:35:53,080
Speaker 1: any relationship with these people? And are you quote unquote

781
00:35:53,120 --> 00:35:55,080
Speaker 1: the one to do the documentary? Like does it make

782
00:35:55,120 --> 00:35:58,040
Speaker 1: sense to everybody? Because like there was a comedy documentary

783
00:35:58,040 --> 00:36:01,200
Speaker 1: recently and Mike Binder is the one who's narrating it,

784
00:36:01,239 --> 00:36:03,080
Speaker 1: and it's interesting because he wouldn't be the person you'd

785
00:36:03,120 --> 00:36:06,000
Speaker 1: think we'll be doing a documentary on the Comedy Store.

786
00:36:06,280 --> 00:36:06,960
Speaker 2: So are people?

787
00:36:07,920 --> 00:36:10,480
Speaker 1: Are people really leaning in to do it because you're

788
00:36:10,480 --> 00:36:11,839
Speaker 1: the one directing it?

789
00:36:12,640 --> 00:36:16,160
Speaker 3: Well, uh, what are you doing? Well, you know it's me.

790
00:36:16,239 --> 00:36:18,120
Speaker 3: I'm just sort of getting my car in or on

791
00:36:18,160 --> 00:36:20,319
Speaker 3: the plane and just go to people's houses and say,

792
00:36:20,600 --> 00:36:22,759
Speaker 3: let's talk about this. I haven't seen you. It's great

793
00:36:22,760 --> 00:36:24,480
Speaker 3: to see you. This is what it did to my life,

794
00:36:24,480 --> 00:36:26,080
Speaker 3: what to do to yours? And it did the exact

795
00:36:26,120 --> 00:36:29,680
Speaker 3: same thing to all I'm as you know, and so

796
00:36:29,760 --> 00:36:33,000
Speaker 3: it's been interesting and a lot of people, several people said, well,

797
00:36:33,000 --> 00:36:34,600
Speaker 3: you're the only one who could do this, and I'm

798
00:36:34,640 --> 00:36:36,600
Speaker 3: not sure why to say that, but you know, and

799
00:36:36,600 --> 00:36:37,960
Speaker 3: there are other people. There are a couple that just

800
00:36:37,960 --> 00:36:39,600
Speaker 3: don't want to talk about it. I'm not talking about this,

801
00:36:39,960 --> 00:36:42,960
Speaker 3: you know. The whole thing is that it's what I

802
00:36:43,040 --> 00:36:46,120
Speaker 3: find fasting. Still thirty five years later, whatever long it is,

803
00:36:46,440 --> 00:36:49,040
Speaker 3: it's still so raw to some people I don't want

804
00:36:49,080 --> 00:36:52,399
Speaker 3: to talk about them. Really. Wow, that which just sort

805
00:36:52,400 --> 00:36:55,120
Speaker 3: of proves my point that it was a seminal experience.

806
00:36:55,120 --> 00:36:58,480
Speaker 1: And yes, I'm excited for it. I can't believe it

807
00:36:58,480 --> 00:37:01,000
Speaker 1: hasn't been done. Like I'm now thinking about you.

808
00:37:01,239 --> 00:37:02,759
Speaker 3: I can't tell you why it hasn't been done. It's

809
00:37:02,800 --> 00:37:05,799
Speaker 3: because no one from the out I would certainly never

810
00:37:05,840 --> 00:37:09,759
Speaker 3: talk to anything like Emilio came. I said, Melio. He said,

811
00:37:10,040 --> 00:37:11,920
Speaker 3: I would never have talked to anybody about this, but

812
00:37:12,000 --> 00:37:14,000
Speaker 3: you like if so. I've been asked, and I've been

813
00:37:14,040 --> 00:37:16,719
Speaker 3: asked dozens and dozens of times if you're doing a

814
00:37:16,800 --> 00:37:20,080
Speaker 3: rat pack kind of thing, and no, not interested, not interested,

815
00:37:20,760 --> 00:37:22,759
Speaker 3: And so it was because it was one of us

816
00:37:22,880 --> 00:37:26,359
Speaker 3: kind of japing it because we're remembers like you are

817
00:37:26,400 --> 00:37:27,040
Speaker 3: of this club.

818
00:37:27,200 --> 00:37:28,440
Speaker 2: Oh my god, I'm upset.

819
00:37:28,480 --> 00:37:30,839
Speaker 1: You don't understand. I've watched I've watched Santa's I watch

820
00:37:30,880 --> 00:37:33,000
Speaker 1: it now. I will never turn Sana'm as Fire off.

821
00:37:33,000 --> 00:37:35,040
Speaker 1: There are only how many movies in your life?

822
00:37:35,040 --> 00:37:38,080
Speaker 2: Will you never? I will never turn Shindler's List off.

823
00:37:38,360 --> 00:37:40,520
Speaker 2: I probably won't. I won't turn Wall Street off.

824
00:37:41,160 --> 00:37:43,640
Speaker 1: I would turn the Shining off of maybe like there's

825
00:37:43,640 --> 00:37:46,560
Speaker 1: just some weird movie that Santa Almost Fire and also

826
00:37:46,600 --> 00:37:49,520
Speaker 1: about last Night. I will never turn them off. Never

827
00:37:49,560 --> 00:37:51,680
Speaker 1: would I not stop and watch whatever scene and I

828
00:37:51,760 --> 00:37:53,919
Speaker 1: know every word to every scene, and what about you?

829
00:37:54,280 --> 00:37:56,200
Speaker 2: What are the movies that you would not stop?

830
00:37:57,000 --> 00:38:00,080
Speaker 3: Mine would be Jaws and probably The Godfather.

831
00:37:59,680 --> 00:38:01,279
Speaker 2: That you oh oh got.

832
00:38:01,360 --> 00:38:03,279
Speaker 3: Yeah, this is what I'm doing for the next hour.

833
00:38:03,320 --> 00:38:05,520
Speaker 1: I thank you, yes, but I mean stay down with

834
00:38:05,600 --> 00:38:09,279
Speaker 1: the music like everything. I mean, I and and the

835
00:38:09,320 --> 00:38:12,440
Speaker 1: wind in that room with Demi Moore. I'm there right now,

836
00:38:12,560 --> 00:38:16,279
Speaker 1: like I'm in the argument. You're so neurotic with the

837
00:38:16,520 --> 00:38:19,319
Speaker 1: smoking in the ashtray and the apartment. Like there is

838
00:38:19,400 --> 00:38:21,960
Speaker 1: not a sentilla of any of those movies that you've

839
00:38:22,000 --> 00:38:23,759
Speaker 1: been in that I don't know. And I mean were

840
00:38:23,760 --> 00:38:25,120
Speaker 1: you and you were in private school?

841
00:38:25,120 --> 00:38:28,240
Speaker 2: No? No, who is in private school? James Spader?

842
00:38:28,560 --> 00:38:28,839
Speaker 4: I don't.

843
00:38:29,000 --> 00:38:32,160
Speaker 1: Oh, okay, there's not a moment class all of it.

844
00:38:32,239 --> 00:38:33,319
Speaker 1: So anyway, I get it.

845
00:38:33,360 --> 00:38:33,799
Speaker 2: I'm camp.

846
00:38:33,880 --> 00:38:36,040
Speaker 1: You tell me the minute it's out, I'm there. I

847
00:38:36,080 --> 00:38:38,439
Speaker 1: will be the I will be I laughed, I cried.

848
00:38:38,440 --> 00:38:42,160
Speaker 1: It's better than cats. I'll be your like spokesperson. I

849
00:38:42,200 --> 00:38:45,600
Speaker 1: really enjoyed you, and I appreciate the time, and I'm

850
00:38:45,600 --> 00:38:49,400
Speaker 1: excited for you and your book and just all of it.

851
00:38:49,440 --> 00:38:52,000
Speaker 1: Like I'm now a fan again. I'm a new fan.

852
00:38:52,239 --> 00:38:55,680
Speaker 1: I'm a new old fan. Me too, awesome. Thank you

853
00:38:55,800 --> 00:38:58,919
Speaker 1: so much, Andrew. Nice to meet you, and I wish

854
00:38:59,000 --> 00:38:59,880
Speaker 1: you the best of everything.

855
00:39:00,560 --> 00:39:02,640
Speaker 3: Bangs you doo, You're great awesome.

856
00:39:02,800 --> 00:39:11,560
Speaker 5: Likewise, oh my god, I just interviewed Andrew McCarthy and

857
00:39:11,640 --> 00:39:13,279
Speaker 5: like I didn't want to be weird, and I wasn't

858
00:39:13,320 --> 00:39:14,399
Speaker 5: weird because he was so cool and.

859
00:39:14,360 --> 00:39:17,880
Speaker 1: We're peers and peers with Andrew McCarthy. You don't understand.

860
00:39:18,440 --> 00:39:20,600
Speaker 1: We are getting fucking Matt Dylon on this podcast, and

861
00:39:20,640 --> 00:39:23,520
Speaker 1: I'm gonna try to remain cool. Andrew McCarthy was like

862
00:39:23,560 --> 00:39:26,800
Speaker 1: the guy that, like I could actually marry. Matt Dylan

863
00:39:26,960 --> 00:39:28,880
Speaker 1: was like the hot sort of bad boy that I

864
00:39:28,920 --> 00:39:31,520
Speaker 1: could maybe like date or sleep with. I don't think

865
00:39:31,520 --> 00:39:33,279
Speaker 1: at that age I was even thinking that. But like,

866
00:39:33,680 --> 00:39:36,000
Speaker 1: you don't understand. I just interviewed met Andrew McCarthy and

867
00:39:36,000 --> 00:39:40,480
Speaker 1: we're like adults with kids, talking like peers. I lived

868
00:39:40,600 --> 00:39:43,400
Speaker 1: for him. I wanted to crawl inside the movies and

869
00:39:43,480 --> 00:39:44,680
Speaker 1: be there and move there.

870
00:39:44,719 --> 00:39:46,200
Speaker 2: I used to cry about.

871
00:39:45,920 --> 00:39:48,600
Speaker 1: It, like you don't under you do understand, Duran, Duran

872
00:39:48,719 --> 00:39:51,919
Speaker 1: Matt Dylon, But Andrew McCarthy was my number one. Loved

873
00:39:52,000 --> 00:39:54,839
Speaker 1: James Spader too, but like Andrew McCarthy had like the

874
00:39:54,920 --> 00:39:58,040
Speaker 1: warm and fuzzy of it all, like the boyish charm.

875
00:39:58,480 --> 00:40:03,400
Speaker 1: He's so interesting, so amazing, so smart, so textured, so deep,

876
00:40:04,080 --> 00:40:07,239
Speaker 1: and like to talk about the brat Pack to what now,

877
00:40:07,320 --> 00:40:10,040
Speaker 1: I know a member of the brat Pack? What the

878
00:40:10,080 --> 00:40:13,080
Speaker 1: fuck are you talking about? The brat Pack was everything

879
00:40:13,120 --> 00:40:15,279
Speaker 1: For those of you who are younger, you don't understand.

880
00:40:15,320 --> 00:40:18,920
Speaker 1: It was like this group of young Hollywood idol icons

881
00:40:18,920 --> 00:40:20,799
Speaker 1: had got into trouble and we're like bad boys and

882
00:40:20,840 --> 00:40:23,480
Speaker 1: bad girls, but like came up together in this group

883
00:40:24,080 --> 00:40:27,560
Speaker 1: and the movie Standing almost Fire crystallized it, and like

884
00:40:27,800 --> 00:40:30,560
Speaker 1: I would watch it right now. I would stop this podcast.

885
00:40:30,560 --> 00:40:32,359
Speaker 1: If we were on television, I would not be able

886
00:40:32,400 --> 00:40:32,960
Speaker 1: to turn away.

887
00:40:33,480 --> 00:40:36,680
Speaker 2: Obsessed. He was amazing by his book.

888
00:40:36,719 --> 00:40:40,080
Speaker 1: He's a great writer, and I loved it and I'm

889
00:40:40,080 --> 00:40:42,799
Speaker 1: so excited and he's one of those people that's really

890
00:40:42,840 --> 00:40:46,719
Speaker 1: smart and like complex, So I think my publicist was

891
00:40:46,760 --> 00:40:49,399
Speaker 1: even worried that, like, if you know, he might want

892
00:40:49,440 --> 00:40:51,000
Speaker 1: to sort of get off after five minutes, because some

893
00:40:51,000 --> 00:40:54,800
Speaker 1: people are just don't like, can't be bullshit interviews. So excited,

894
00:40:55,000 --> 00:40:59,160
Speaker 1: loved it, loved, so happy,