1 00:00:00,280 --> 00:00:04,720 Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is 2 00:00:04,800 --> 00:00:09,119 Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or 3 00:00:09,240 --> 00:00:27,600 Speaker 1: learn the stuff they don't want you to know. M Hello, 4 00:00:27,960 --> 00:00:30,040 Speaker 1: welcome back to the show. My name is Matt, my 5 00:00:30,120 --> 00:00:32,839 Speaker 1: name is They call me Bed. You argue that that 6 00:00:32,960 --> 00:00:36,199 Speaker 1: makes this stuff they don't want you to know. But 7 00:00:36,360 --> 00:00:39,040 Speaker 1: no ordinary episode of stuff they don't want you to know. 8 00:00:39,200 --> 00:00:42,640 Speaker 1: I mean, arguably, ever have had an ordinary episode of 9 00:00:42,800 --> 00:00:45,239 Speaker 1: stuff they don't want you I haven't seen it. I 10 00:00:45,240 --> 00:00:51,120 Speaker 1: haven't heard it. Uh, so this will be another extraordinary episode. 11 00:00:51,159 --> 00:00:54,160 Speaker 1: It's different in that we are returning to a topic 12 00:00:54,240 --> 00:00:59,480 Speaker 1: we examined in the past at length, the dark, murky 13 00:00:59,560 --> 00:01:05,520 Speaker 1: world of crime, specifically homicide, specifically the rarest and perhaps 14 00:01:05,680 --> 00:01:09,160 Speaker 1: most well known form of homicide. I want, I really 15 00:01:09,160 --> 00:01:12,679 Speaker 1: want to insert that sound effect from Law and Order, 16 00:01:13,400 --> 00:01:19,759 Speaker 1: Thank damn, and just imagine the phrase dick wolf uh 17 00:01:19,880 --> 00:01:25,800 Speaker 1: blossoming in your head, but not just dick wolves blossoming everywhere. Yeah, yeah, 18 00:01:25,840 --> 00:01:28,200 Speaker 1: it could be a person in real life. But we 19 00:01:28,240 --> 00:01:31,000 Speaker 1: don't want to mess with your imagination or impose limits 20 00:01:31,000 --> 00:01:33,720 Speaker 1: on your creativity. So whatever you think when you're hear 21 00:01:33,840 --> 00:01:38,199 Speaker 1: the phrase dick was blossoming in your head, just run wild. 22 00:01:38,280 --> 00:01:39,800 Speaker 1: You can write to us about it. We might not 23 00:01:39,840 --> 00:01:42,919 Speaker 1: be able to read it on air. We've examined serial 24 00:01:43,000 --> 00:01:45,720 Speaker 1: killers in the past, boy have weay, and we are 25 00:01:45,760 --> 00:01:49,200 Speaker 1: picking up where we left off in our previous episode 26 00:01:49,360 --> 00:01:53,800 Speaker 1: on serial killers Uncaught and otherwise in this episode to 27 00:01:53,800 --> 00:01:55,960 Speaker 1: start off, we're gonna do a little bit of review. 28 00:01:56,040 --> 00:01:58,960 Speaker 1: I guess you can call it from the last episode. 29 00:01:59,240 --> 00:02:01,600 Speaker 1: What did we talk about in that one, Matt Well, 30 00:02:01,640 --> 00:02:05,440 Speaker 1: In truth, we've this is like episode four or five 31 00:02:05,680 --> 00:02:08,800 Speaker 1: in a way, just because we've covered specific serial killers 32 00:02:09,080 --> 00:02:13,160 Speaker 1: and then other serial killers that disappeared or were never apprehended. 33 00:02:13,680 --> 00:02:16,200 Speaker 1: So we had the original night stalker that we went 34 00:02:16,280 --> 00:02:19,800 Speaker 1: over in some serious depth, which was terrifying. I had 35 00:02:19,880 --> 00:02:22,959 Speaker 1: nightmares for a while that the guy was out there 36 00:02:23,000 --> 00:02:25,080 Speaker 1: listening to us and then was going to come and 37 00:02:25,120 --> 00:02:29,880 Speaker 1: find us. Also unapprehended. Agreed, Yes, the Highway of Tears 38 00:02:30,600 --> 00:02:34,200 Speaker 1: another situation where that was one with the truck drivers 39 00:02:34,200 --> 00:02:38,440 Speaker 1: in the Native Americans right, yes, in Canada and uh 40 00:02:38,840 --> 00:02:42,480 Speaker 1: more serial killer or killers that have not been apprehended there, 41 00:02:43,160 --> 00:02:45,520 Speaker 1: and we for a highly of tears. We partnered with 42 00:02:45,960 --> 00:02:50,079 Speaker 1: how Stuff Works Auto expert Scott Benjamin, who is quite 43 00:02:50,120 --> 00:02:54,200 Speaker 1: the true crime of the Nado, and as Noel mentioned 44 00:02:54,200 --> 00:03:00,400 Speaker 1: in our first episode on various uncaught serial killers, killers 45 00:03:00,440 --> 00:03:03,560 Speaker 1: who were on the loose and could be alive today, 46 00:03:04,080 --> 00:03:08,240 Speaker 1: may even be alive as we're recording this episode. Uh 47 00:03:08,560 --> 00:03:11,880 Speaker 1: we uh. We had Christian Sager from Stuff to Blow 48 00:03:11,919 --> 00:03:14,560 Speaker 1: Your Mind come onto the show, friend of the show, 49 00:03:14,840 --> 00:03:18,480 Speaker 1: and we looked at several different killers. The new Bedford 50 00:03:18,560 --> 00:03:24,119 Speaker 1: Highway killer Lisbon Ripper Pedro Lopez, who was I don't 51 00:03:24,160 --> 00:03:26,720 Speaker 1: know if you can assign a value, but in terms 52 00:03:26,720 --> 00:03:29,400 Speaker 1: of numbers of people killed, he's by far the highest 53 00:03:29,560 --> 00:03:33,720 Speaker 1: and the victims that he chose all children. Yeah, what 54 00:03:33,760 --> 00:03:35,760 Speaker 1: does it take to earn the nickname the Ripper? I 55 00:03:35,880 --> 00:03:38,400 Speaker 1: just you know, can you casually do that? Can I 56 00:03:38,440 --> 00:03:41,920 Speaker 1: even all the Ripper? I guess if you you know, 57 00:03:41,960 --> 00:03:44,160 Speaker 1: if we're back in lime Wire days, if I ripped 58 00:03:44,240 --> 00:03:47,000 Speaker 1: sick beats, does that count? That could count? That could count. 59 00:03:47,080 --> 00:03:51,960 Speaker 1: Usually in the case of murder, uh, it's assigned by journalists, 60 00:03:51,960 --> 00:03:54,440 Speaker 1: people kind of coin. It's sort of a rush to 61 00:03:54,600 --> 00:03:56,800 Speaker 1: like be the one to give the clever name to 62 00:03:56,920 --> 00:03:59,760 Speaker 1: by the at large murderer. And that's why there are 63 00:03:59,760 --> 00:04:04,560 Speaker 1: all out of the insert geographical location here, stranglers, a 64 00:04:04,600 --> 00:04:07,400 Speaker 1: lot of the insert so and so rippers. You ever 65 00:04:07,400 --> 00:04:10,800 Speaker 1: wonder about the ones that don't stick? Yeah, some sad 66 00:04:10,840 --> 00:04:13,560 Speaker 1: sack journalists that just kind of was really trying his best. 67 00:04:13,600 --> 00:04:15,119 Speaker 1: But then so you know that the other one took 68 00:04:15,160 --> 00:04:17,159 Speaker 1: off and he was just left in the dirt. Yeah. Yeah, 69 00:04:17,160 --> 00:04:19,440 Speaker 1: I think about that too, because I could see the 70 00:04:19,480 --> 00:04:22,640 Speaker 1: pitch meetings where they're trying to divide the line between 71 00:04:23,120 --> 00:04:26,120 Speaker 1: is this a workable name for a serial killer or 72 00:04:26,120 --> 00:04:29,000 Speaker 1: does this sound like a DC supervillain? Yeah, well you 73 00:04:29,040 --> 00:04:30,440 Speaker 1: see that in movies a lot too. Or there in 74 00:04:30,440 --> 00:04:33,919 Speaker 1: the news room and the grizzled old you know, editor 75 00:04:34,120 --> 00:04:36,480 Speaker 1: was like, now we needs something that bleeds and bleeds 76 00:04:36,480 --> 00:04:39,719 Speaker 1: it leads. Come on something that will capture them imaginations. 77 00:04:39,720 --> 00:04:42,320 Speaker 1: How about bend the ripper. That sounds good. And it 78 00:04:42,440 --> 00:04:45,440 Speaker 1: was like, oh, what what about the bone collector? And 79 00:04:45,480 --> 00:04:47,440 Speaker 1: they're like, that would work. That's a great I like 80 00:04:47,520 --> 00:04:50,640 Speaker 1: the way you're thinking, Darren, But we gotta have a 81 00:04:50,680 --> 00:04:55,320 Speaker 1: bone on the scene disembowler. Right, it's such a weird 82 00:04:55,360 --> 00:04:59,240 Speaker 1: thing to think about that those are a little exaggerated 83 00:04:59,240 --> 00:05:03,320 Speaker 1: about what would happen, very but Yeah, pretty pretty similar 84 00:05:03,360 --> 00:05:05,760 Speaker 1: to things that are actually happening while on the streets 85 00:05:05,839 --> 00:05:09,240 Speaker 1: there are people being murdered. Well, there's a certain callousness 86 00:05:09,240 --> 00:05:12,520 Speaker 1: to this kind of reporting. You can't deny. Well, there's 87 00:05:12,560 --> 00:05:15,839 Speaker 1: a callousness I would argue to reporting in general, especially 88 00:05:15,839 --> 00:05:19,760 Speaker 1: in the West, because remember how post Nixon. Well none 89 00:05:19,760 --> 00:05:22,599 Speaker 1: of us are old enough to remember ride after post Nixon, 90 00:05:23,200 --> 00:05:26,440 Speaker 1: but all of us listening now are the facto post Nixon. 91 00:05:26,839 --> 00:05:30,680 Speaker 1: As soon as the Watergate scandal happens, then people began 92 00:05:30,760 --> 00:05:33,040 Speaker 1: just saying, you know how we make something really sell 93 00:05:33,279 --> 00:05:36,560 Speaker 1: attached the word gate to it. Right, It's been happening 94 00:05:36,600 --> 00:05:39,520 Speaker 1: ever since. It's been happening ever since. We're apparently in 95 00:05:39,600 --> 00:05:43,640 Speaker 1: the midst of stupid water Gate right now. Stupid water 96 00:05:43,040 --> 00:05:47,720 Speaker 1: that's what John Oliver is calling. Have you guys heard 97 00:05:47,760 --> 00:05:51,000 Speaker 1: about the Oliver effect? That such a sidebar Apparently last 98 00:05:51,040 --> 00:05:54,640 Speaker 1: week Tonight, which I think is a great show, has 99 00:05:54,680 --> 00:05:59,880 Speaker 1: a noticeable and statistically significant effect on legislation, they call 100 00:06:00,120 --> 00:06:04,120 Speaker 1: the Oliver effect. And not just in the US, even 101 00:06:04,120 --> 00:06:07,279 Speaker 1: in New Zealand. Man, what was that the one with 102 00:06:07,320 --> 00:06:09,720 Speaker 1: the eminem Yeah, where they ripped off it. They did 103 00:06:09,760 --> 00:06:13,440 Speaker 1: a they did a copyright free impressed impersonation of Lose 104 00:06:13,520 --> 00:06:17,600 Speaker 1: Yourself the instrumental track, and then they had a bunch 105 00:06:17,640 --> 00:06:21,880 Speaker 1: of is it offensive to say kiwi or is that 106 00:06:21,960 --> 00:06:24,040 Speaker 1: just like say brit Well if if, if it is, 107 00:06:24,120 --> 00:06:26,279 Speaker 1: then that's a shame because that's also a really good 108 00:06:26,480 --> 00:06:29,960 Speaker 1: key for how they pronounced words. Yes, everything is kind 109 00:06:29,960 --> 00:06:41,960 Speaker 1: of like kiwis sorry? Speaking of ripping things off, how 110 00:06:41,960 --> 00:06:45,960 Speaker 1: about the Lisbon Ripper? Right? Yes, the Lisbon Ripper was 111 00:06:46,200 --> 00:06:50,200 Speaker 1: one of the unfortunately many people who got the ripper 112 00:06:50,560 --> 00:06:53,720 Speaker 1: added to their name, and then there was also the 113 00:06:53,800 --> 00:06:58,160 Speaker 1: Craigslist Ripper, all the Long Island serial killer. What's troubling 114 00:06:58,160 --> 00:07:01,599 Speaker 1: about this is, as we covered these, none of those 115 00:07:02,560 --> 00:07:06,119 Speaker 1: crimes or emos haven't tied to a person. Those people 116 00:07:06,120 --> 00:07:10,400 Speaker 1: remain apprehended, and that got us thinking what else is 117 00:07:10,440 --> 00:07:12,320 Speaker 1: out there? Because we said in the first episode we 118 00:07:12,360 --> 00:07:15,800 Speaker 1: only scratched the surface, right, so today we are returning 119 00:07:15,840 --> 00:07:18,640 Speaker 1: to the grim, morbid minds of serial murderers. And I 120 00:07:18,640 --> 00:07:23,520 Speaker 1: mean just a slight disclaimer. This stuff is disturbing, unsettling, 121 00:07:23,640 --> 00:07:26,920 Speaker 1: upsetting stuff and if we get a little light with 122 00:07:26,960 --> 00:07:29,680 Speaker 1: it occasionally, I swear to you it's literally just to 123 00:07:29,760 --> 00:07:33,160 Speaker 1: keep us from going insane. But if we do have 124 00:07:33,320 --> 00:07:36,200 Speaker 1: younger listeners out there, maybe parents who are listening with 125 00:07:36,240 --> 00:07:39,440 Speaker 1: the younger ones. I'm not saying don't listen to it. 126 00:07:39,680 --> 00:07:44,200 Speaker 1: I'm just saying, use caution, be aware. Uh So, first 127 00:07:44,320 --> 00:07:48,440 Speaker 1: things first, we want to define what makes a serial killer. 128 00:07:48,520 --> 00:07:53,680 Speaker 1: This is a troublingly controversial definition. The FBI's definition of 129 00:07:53,800 --> 00:07:57,640 Speaker 1: what exactly makes a murderer serial killer has fluctuated over 130 00:07:57,760 --> 00:08:01,520 Speaker 1: the past decades. We know the term serial killer was 131 00:08:01,560 --> 00:08:03,880 Speaker 1: coined in the mid nineteen seventies by a guy named 132 00:08:04,000 --> 00:08:08,200 Speaker 1: Robert Wrestler. Uh not spelled in like a fun wrestling 133 00:08:08,240 --> 00:08:11,560 Speaker 1: way r E S S l e R, because you know, 134 00:08:11,600 --> 00:08:14,520 Speaker 1: I don't know if people would take it seriously if 135 00:08:14,560 --> 00:08:18,560 Speaker 1: he was Mr. Wrestler. Yeah, it's like Mr Jack Potts, 136 00:08:19,680 --> 00:08:23,360 Speaker 1: though it would be the wrestler, Robbie the Wrestler, the former. 137 00:08:23,440 --> 00:08:27,440 Speaker 1: He was the former director of FBI's Violent Criminal Apprehension Program, 138 00:08:27,480 --> 00:08:31,680 Speaker 1: and he chose the word serial because people in the 139 00:08:31,800 --> 00:08:35,280 Speaker 1: UK and law enforcement called these types of murders crimes 140 00:08:35,400 --> 00:08:40,720 Speaker 1: in a series, and because he grew up watching serialized films. 141 00:08:41,520 --> 00:08:46,320 Speaker 1: Before this, these criminals were sometimes known as mass murderers 142 00:08:46,440 --> 00:08:49,920 Speaker 1: or the act was called stranger on stranger crime, which 143 00:08:49,960 --> 00:08:53,880 Speaker 1: doesn't really cover it, because a mass mur could be 144 00:08:53,920 --> 00:08:59,000 Speaker 1: anything from an explosive device or war lord that's a 145 00:08:59,000 --> 00:09:02,920 Speaker 1: great point, or as free killer who's just like, I'm 146 00:09:02,960 --> 00:09:06,160 Speaker 1: mad about something, so I'm gonna take it out on 147 00:09:06,200 --> 00:09:09,559 Speaker 1: everyone in this McDonald's. And I guess contained within that 148 00:09:09,720 --> 00:09:13,880 Speaker 1: serial killer moniker is a lot of psychology as well, 149 00:09:13,920 --> 00:09:16,160 Speaker 1: in terms of how they choose their victims, with their 150 00:09:16,360 --> 00:09:19,640 Speaker 1: m o is, how they go about planning these crimes. 151 00:09:19,640 --> 00:09:22,880 Speaker 1: So there's much more premeditation involved in being a serial 152 00:09:22,960 --> 00:09:25,320 Speaker 1: killer than saying being a mass murder or a spree 153 00:09:25,400 --> 00:09:30,320 Speaker 1: killer or any other kind of random or accidental killing. Right, 154 00:09:30,400 --> 00:09:33,640 Speaker 1: like so many people who kill someone in the course 155 00:09:33,679 --> 00:09:37,480 Speaker 1: of trying to commit another crime successfully bank robbery, burglary, 156 00:09:38,000 --> 00:09:41,480 Speaker 1: at a postage stamp fraud. That's the one I keep 157 00:09:41,520 --> 00:09:43,160 Speaker 1: going back to. I still can't believe that's a crime. 158 00:09:43,720 --> 00:09:47,200 Speaker 1: But we do have these hard and fast definitions or 159 00:09:47,360 --> 00:09:50,920 Speaker 1: qualities of serial killers that that we want everybody to 160 00:09:50,920 --> 00:09:54,760 Speaker 1: be clear on. It comes from the Crime Classification Manual, 161 00:09:55,480 --> 00:09:57,960 Speaker 1: and it says that a serial killer is someone who 162 00:09:58,000 --> 00:10:01,559 Speaker 1: a commits at least three murders be in at least 163 00:10:01,600 --> 00:10:05,800 Speaker 1: three different locations see encounters some kind of cooling off 164 00:10:05,880 --> 00:10:09,120 Speaker 1: period in between murders, so stops murdering for a while 165 00:10:09,240 --> 00:10:12,679 Speaker 1: and then And we already know that definition is imperfect 166 00:10:12,840 --> 00:10:15,679 Speaker 1: because there are serial killers, Like, how do we define 167 00:10:15,720 --> 00:10:18,960 Speaker 1: that location? Right? We are there serial killers who routinely 168 00:10:19,040 --> 00:10:23,679 Speaker 1: killed people within their homes. Jeffrey Dahmer, John Wayne Gacy. Uh, 169 00:10:23,840 --> 00:10:26,080 Speaker 1: I can not remember his name, but that monster who 170 00:10:26,120 --> 00:10:29,960 Speaker 1: invented a torture truck. Also, by the way, if you 171 00:10:30,080 --> 00:10:34,000 Speaker 1: check out when you check out the FBI's classification of 172 00:10:34,040 --> 00:10:37,040 Speaker 1: serial killers on the interstate, you will rethink rest stops 173 00:10:37,080 --> 00:10:39,960 Speaker 1: in this country. We also know there's a difference in 174 00:10:40,080 --> 00:10:44,120 Speaker 1: the way that the media portrays serial killers versus the 175 00:10:44,200 --> 00:10:50,160 Speaker 1: way these people act. Sure, so you know we've seen, 176 00:10:50,200 --> 00:10:53,440 Speaker 1: like I hesitate to use the word favorite, but what 177 00:10:53,480 --> 00:10:55,959 Speaker 1: are some of the most memorable serial killers in fiction? 178 00:10:56,440 --> 00:11:00,240 Speaker 1: Animal elector right, that's one, Yes, I was in the 179 00:11:00,280 --> 00:11:02,559 Speaker 1: main one. I was gonna say, Henry Portrait of a 180 00:11:02,600 --> 00:11:05,719 Speaker 1: serial Killer is a good one, pretty like a very 181 00:11:05,760 --> 00:11:09,840 Speaker 1: solitary depiction of sort of like this lone wolf serial 182 00:11:09,920 --> 00:11:14,200 Speaker 1: killer situation. That's a good one. American Psycho American Psycho 183 00:11:14,240 --> 00:11:17,440 Speaker 1: is great. Yeah, and of course psycho, oh yes, and 184 00:11:17,480 --> 00:11:23,160 Speaker 1: also psycho. So we know that in real life, serial 185 00:11:23,240 --> 00:11:26,160 Speaker 1: killers typically work alone. It is very very rare for 186 00:11:26,200 --> 00:11:30,600 Speaker 1: them to cooperate, uh, And they typically kill strangers who 187 00:11:30,640 --> 00:11:33,880 Speaker 1: fit the m o of whatever it is they're into, 188 00:11:34,240 --> 00:11:36,800 Speaker 1: and they kill for the sake of killing, as opposed 189 00:11:36,840 --> 00:11:40,920 Speaker 1: to you know, crime a passion. According to a recent 190 00:11:41,080 --> 00:11:45,160 Speaker 1: FBI study, have been approximately four hundred serial killers in 191 00:11:45,160 --> 00:11:50,000 Speaker 1: the US in the past century, and they've killed anywhere 192 00:11:50,080 --> 00:11:54,240 Speaker 1: from winning five hundred to almost four thousand victims. And 193 00:11:54,280 --> 00:11:58,160 Speaker 1: back to the whole aspect of media involved in this, 194 00:11:58,280 --> 00:12:01,960 Speaker 1: we've got a depiction is created by the media versus reality. 195 00:12:02,240 --> 00:12:05,120 Speaker 1: So first off, you know, let's forget the tired old, 196 00:12:05,320 --> 00:12:09,640 Speaker 1: romanticized dexter or hannibal electric tropes. There's no way to 197 00:12:09,760 --> 00:12:14,600 Speaker 1: really tell from outward appearances whether someone is or is 198 00:12:14,679 --> 00:12:19,120 Speaker 1: not serial killer, but we can use psychology to profile 199 00:12:19,160 --> 00:12:21,160 Speaker 1: people a bit from what we know. More than eight 200 00:12:21,320 --> 00:12:23,920 Speaker 1: percent of serial killers are male, Caucasian and in their 201 00:12:23,920 --> 00:12:27,800 Speaker 1: twenties or thirties, and many criminologists believe serial killers also 202 00:12:27,840 --> 00:12:32,520 Speaker 1: experience three very specific behaviors in childhood, known as the 203 00:12:32,600 --> 00:12:37,559 Speaker 1: McDonald triad. Mat what's that about, Yes, Noel, the McDonald 204 00:12:37,640 --> 00:12:43,079 Speaker 1: triad are three things, bedwdding, arson, and cruelty to animals. 205 00:12:43,120 --> 00:12:46,240 Speaker 1: So it's strange to me that these are the three things, 206 00:12:46,280 --> 00:12:48,880 Speaker 1: because you you imagine cruelty to animals is kind of 207 00:12:48,920 --> 00:12:53,000 Speaker 1: a ramp up to cruelty to humans. Arson shows that 208 00:12:53,520 --> 00:12:57,360 Speaker 1: you don't really care about the consequences of an action 209 00:12:57,440 --> 00:13:00,880 Speaker 1: like that, possibly you don't care. And then bed wedding 210 00:13:01,520 --> 00:13:04,040 Speaker 1: that feels like an outlier to me. So it's more 211 00:13:04,240 --> 00:13:07,960 Speaker 1: the degree to which or the age of which someone 212 00:13:08,120 --> 00:13:12,800 Speaker 1: stops involuntarily wedding the bed. So it's not bed wedding 213 00:13:12,800 --> 00:13:15,120 Speaker 1: in general. That's a very common thing to people when 214 00:13:15,120 --> 00:13:18,120 Speaker 1: they're learning to use restrooms in the way that our 215 00:13:18,160 --> 00:13:20,800 Speaker 1: society says is correct, it's a bell curve of not 216 00:13:20,880 --> 00:13:24,760 Speaker 1: wedding the bed. I think starting out early, and but 217 00:13:24,880 --> 00:13:30,360 Speaker 1: you know, if you know, some people will involuntarily h 218 00:13:30,640 --> 00:13:34,440 Speaker 1: urinate if we're just gonna be dry medical about it, 219 00:13:34,920 --> 00:13:38,559 Speaker 1: well into their teens. And this under the McDonald tread 220 00:13:38,600 --> 00:13:42,720 Speaker 1: and bended by McDonald, of course, is to him one 221 00:13:42,880 --> 00:13:46,760 Speaker 1: of the primary clues to the problem. We should say that, 222 00:13:46,840 --> 00:13:51,400 Speaker 1: like many other things, is controversial because it's always tough 223 00:13:51,440 --> 00:13:54,600 Speaker 1: to measure people who don't want to be measured or found, 224 00:13:54,880 --> 00:13:57,120 Speaker 1: which even goes back to the earlier statistics. You know 225 00:13:57,160 --> 00:14:00,400 Speaker 1: what we said of serial killers or male what that 226 00:14:00,440 --> 00:14:07,920 Speaker 1: probably means is eight of apprehended serial killers. And we 227 00:14:07,960 --> 00:14:10,960 Speaker 1: do know that there are a few other observable commonalities. 228 00:14:11,200 --> 00:14:14,319 Speaker 1: Serial killers are likely to have come from broken damaged 229 00:14:14,360 --> 00:14:17,880 Speaker 1: home situations, to have been abused, whether that is through 230 00:14:18,200 --> 00:14:22,200 Speaker 1: physical or sexual activity or through neglect like chaining someone 231 00:14:22,280 --> 00:14:25,920 Speaker 1: up in an empty room. Uh. And we also know 232 00:14:25,960 --> 00:14:30,040 Speaker 1: that you can't really you probably have met somebody at 233 00:14:30,080 --> 00:14:33,040 Speaker 1: your school or at your job with people joke about 234 00:14:33,080 --> 00:14:36,080 Speaker 1: that person being a serial killer. We have a few 235 00:14:36,120 --> 00:14:39,320 Speaker 1: here which I won't name. But the truth of the 236 00:14:39,320 --> 00:14:44,200 Speaker 1: matter is there's not a single observable like outward personality 237 00:14:44,560 --> 00:14:49,360 Speaker 1: fingerprint for the UH for the proof positive of a 238 00:14:49,440 --> 00:14:52,680 Speaker 1: serial killer. As some might be shy and introverted, others 239 00:14:52,800 --> 00:14:56,800 Speaker 1: might be super gregarious like Ted Bundy and outgoing. But 240 00:14:57,400 --> 00:14:59,200 Speaker 1: the crazy thing is, you know, I think we've talked 241 00:14:59,200 --> 00:15:02,080 Speaker 1: about this on the show. For Ted Bunny represented himself 242 00:15:02,080 --> 00:15:06,480 Speaker 1: in court and he almost one. He was he was. 243 00:15:06,560 --> 00:15:09,480 Speaker 1: We had said this earlier before, uh, Matt I think 244 00:15:09,520 --> 00:15:11,640 Speaker 1: you phrased them as people who would charmed the pants 245 00:15:11,680 --> 00:15:15,160 Speaker 1: off of you or your your head. But we also 246 00:15:15,240 --> 00:15:20,120 Speaker 1: know that they're not created equally. That there may be 247 00:15:20,400 --> 00:15:24,880 Speaker 1: a tendency toward higher than average intelligence, but there will 248 00:15:24,880 --> 00:15:28,560 Speaker 1: also be people who have lower than average IQ scores 249 00:15:28,640 --> 00:15:30,840 Speaker 1: and the i Q of course I can hear people 250 00:15:30,880 --> 00:15:33,880 Speaker 1: typing the emails. Now know the i Q test is 251 00:15:33,920 --> 00:15:38,960 Speaker 1: not a great measure of intelligence. Have different processes, different motivations. 252 00:15:39,360 --> 00:15:43,080 Speaker 1: But we do know that there is another type of 253 00:15:43,120 --> 00:15:47,920 Speaker 1: classification system that groups people by their acts and uh 254 00:15:48,120 --> 00:15:50,080 Speaker 1: nold do you want to break this down one? You know? 255 00:15:50,160 --> 00:15:54,200 Speaker 1: I do? Ben Ronald dam and Stephen T. Holmes attempted 256 00:15:54,280 --> 00:15:57,400 Speaker 1: to break down these differences with a classification system called 257 00:15:57,600 --> 00:16:02,400 Speaker 1: the homes typology. So the homes type aology groups killers accordingly. Uh. 258 00:16:02,440 --> 00:16:06,480 Speaker 1: Serial killers can be act focused um those who kill quickly, 259 00:16:06,880 --> 00:16:10,640 Speaker 1: or they can be process focused those who kill slowly. UM. 260 00:16:10,800 --> 00:16:14,680 Speaker 1: For act focused killers, simply killing the act of killing 261 00:16:14,720 --> 00:16:17,520 Speaker 1: itself is what does the job. That's the whole point, 262 00:16:17,640 --> 00:16:20,400 Speaker 1: the whole point um. And within this group, you've got 263 00:16:20,400 --> 00:16:24,560 Speaker 1: two types, the visionary and the missionary. Missionary is not 264 00:16:24,600 --> 00:16:26,560 Speaker 1: as fun as it sounds well, let's get to it. 265 00:16:26,640 --> 00:16:31,240 Speaker 1: Let's get to it. The visionary murders because they hear 266 00:16:31,400 --> 00:16:35,320 Speaker 1: voices or have visions that direct them to do so. 267 00:16:35,720 --> 00:16:38,520 Speaker 1: Um so that this is you know a typical scenario 268 00:16:38,640 --> 00:16:40,800 Speaker 1: where you know the devil made me do it, or 269 00:16:40,840 --> 00:16:42,440 Speaker 1: you know you have a voice in your head that's 270 00:16:42,440 --> 00:16:49,640 Speaker 1: whispering to you to do horrible acts. Yeah. Yeah, often demonic, divine, 271 00:16:49,920 --> 00:16:55,520 Speaker 1: or departed influential relations right like in Psycho Fras that's 272 00:16:55,560 --> 00:17:00,560 Speaker 1: a spoiler. But I think Psycho is about seventy old, 273 00:17:00,760 --> 00:17:02,720 Speaker 1: so I think we're okay. I actually had an argument 274 00:17:02,720 --> 00:17:04,320 Speaker 1: with my girlfriend the other day. She said, it's never 275 00:17:04,400 --> 00:17:07,760 Speaker 1: cool to spoil anything, and I'm like, we've been over this, 276 00:17:07,880 --> 00:17:10,479 Speaker 1: I've got it's okay. The community says five years at 277 00:17:10,480 --> 00:17:12,359 Speaker 1: the Statute of Limitage is like, I don't care. I 278 00:17:12,400 --> 00:17:14,200 Speaker 1: just think you want to spoil things because it makes 279 00:17:14,240 --> 00:17:16,199 Speaker 1: you sound like you know at all. That sounds like 280 00:17:16,240 --> 00:17:19,879 Speaker 1: you guys were ultimately arguing about something else. Probably. But 281 00:17:19,920 --> 00:17:22,960 Speaker 1: then there's the missionary murderers, and as you said, Ben, 282 00:17:23,040 --> 00:17:26,280 Speaker 1: not as fun as it sounds at all. The missionary 283 00:17:26,480 --> 00:17:30,520 Speaker 1: murders because um, he or she believes that they are 284 00:17:30,600 --> 00:17:33,359 Speaker 1: meant to get rid of a particular group of people. 285 00:17:33,520 --> 00:17:38,240 Speaker 1: Either I will murder every Blockbuster manager. Yeah, that's pretty 286 00:17:38,280 --> 00:17:41,720 Speaker 1: much been been accomplished already. Or or there are people 287 00:17:41,840 --> 00:17:45,520 Speaker 1: who would say, for instance, um, due to wrongs or 288 00:17:45,600 --> 00:17:50,160 Speaker 1: due to my divine understanding this uh specific type of person. 289 00:17:50,200 --> 00:17:54,240 Speaker 1: This could be race or ethnicity motivated. Uh. They think 290 00:17:54,480 --> 00:17:57,760 Speaker 1: they must be cleansed of the earth, even as we're 291 00:17:57,760 --> 00:18:01,000 Speaker 1: gonna see later on things they have to do, monthly cycles, 292 00:18:01,240 --> 00:18:03,880 Speaker 1: hair color. Yeah, there's any kind of things that would 293 00:18:03,880 --> 00:18:05,879 Speaker 1: fit into this, and it could even fall into the 294 00:18:05,880 --> 00:18:09,880 Speaker 1: category of like a vigilante that's like killing you know, doctors, 295 00:18:09,920 --> 00:18:12,280 Speaker 1: an abortion clinic or something like that, or anybody that 296 00:18:12,520 --> 00:18:15,800 Speaker 1: the scene congregating abortion clinics, so to kind of pick 297 00:18:15,840 --> 00:18:18,480 Speaker 1: out and like say that I'm doing the Lord's work, 298 00:18:18,520 --> 00:18:21,960 Speaker 1: for example, or to have some sort of like crusade mentality, 299 00:18:22,040 --> 00:18:26,160 Speaker 1: Yeah exactly. And then process focused serial killers a little 300 00:18:26,200 --> 00:18:28,560 Speaker 1: bit different. These are the ones you typically see in 301 00:18:28,720 --> 00:18:33,560 Speaker 1: like the grizzly gruesome film depictions where someone's doing some ritualistic, 302 00:18:33,840 --> 00:18:37,439 Speaker 1: gnarly stuff. Yeah exactly. So this would be you know, 303 00:18:37,600 --> 00:18:41,120 Speaker 1: for them, the risk of sounding glib, it's about the journey. 304 00:18:41,400 --> 00:18:45,679 Speaker 1: They don't the they don't necessarily get off on the 305 00:18:45,800 --> 00:18:51,080 Speaker 1: death unless it occurs under a very specific process or workflow. 306 00:18:51,280 --> 00:18:55,280 Speaker 1: Would be a sadist, Yeah, a sadist um. And and 307 00:18:55,320 --> 00:18:58,720 Speaker 1: they have three different types, just like the visionary missionary. 308 00:18:58,760 --> 00:19:04,000 Speaker 1: There are three different types of headonists uh. And then 309 00:19:04,080 --> 00:19:08,280 Speaker 1: there is a separate special category called power seeking killers. 310 00:19:08,280 --> 00:19:12,480 Speaker 1: So the three types of headonness are aiming for lust, thrill, 311 00:19:12,640 --> 00:19:15,520 Speaker 1: and gain. And they're they're pretty self explain to lust 312 00:19:15,600 --> 00:19:19,520 Speaker 1: killers derive sexual pleasure from it. Thrill killers get a 313 00:19:19,600 --> 00:19:23,280 Speaker 1: kick kind of endorphin rush. Game killers believe they will 314 00:19:23,320 --> 00:19:28,520 Speaker 1: profit in some way. And these these are not exclusive categories, 315 00:19:28,600 --> 00:19:31,080 Speaker 1: but people tend to fall more into one than the other. 316 00:19:31,160 --> 00:19:34,720 Speaker 1: Like a. J. H. Holmes was making money from ripping 317 00:19:34,720 --> 00:19:37,400 Speaker 1: people off in his murder mansion, but he was also 318 00:19:37,720 --> 00:19:42,000 Speaker 1: clearly into killing people in a myriad of tortuous ways. 319 00:19:42,760 --> 00:19:46,159 Speaker 1: Power killers want to play god, to be in charge 320 00:19:46,160 --> 00:19:49,960 Speaker 1: of life or death. And many times, um, this would 321 00:19:49,960 --> 00:19:52,800 Speaker 1: be the case of you know, the the nurses who 322 00:19:52,800 --> 00:19:56,760 Speaker 1: are discovered to have been slowly poisoning patients over decades 323 00:19:56,840 --> 00:19:59,280 Speaker 1: and in the past were very hard to catch. Then 324 00:19:59,320 --> 00:20:04,040 Speaker 1: you get into classifications of serial killers by their organizational 325 00:20:04,119 --> 00:20:08,639 Speaker 1: skills and their social skills, which feels again it all 326 00:20:08,680 --> 00:20:11,080 Speaker 1: feels so strange trying to organize the people into the groups, 327 00:20:11,080 --> 00:20:12,959 Speaker 1: but it makes a lot of sense when you're hunting 328 00:20:13,119 --> 00:20:17,040 Speaker 1: serial killers right as law enforcement. Um, So they can 329 00:20:17,119 --> 00:20:20,199 Speaker 1: either be organized or distortion disorganized. And that's when you 330 00:20:20,240 --> 00:20:23,320 Speaker 1: look at the type of crime scene, how it's set up. 331 00:20:24,160 --> 00:20:27,480 Speaker 1: Then you've got non social or a social Uh, this 332 00:20:27,600 --> 00:20:30,400 Speaker 1: is going to depend on whether or not they exclude 333 00:20:30,440 --> 00:20:35,040 Speaker 1: themselves from society or whether a society excludes them. And 334 00:20:35,080 --> 00:20:39,439 Speaker 1: then uh, the majority of identified serial killers are organized 335 00:20:39,720 --> 00:20:44,040 Speaker 1: and non social, so they don't want to hang, but 336 00:20:44,280 --> 00:20:46,680 Speaker 1: they do have a plan. They do have a plan, 337 00:20:46,920 --> 00:20:49,840 Speaker 1: and they like things to be a very specific way. 338 00:20:50,080 --> 00:20:53,359 Speaker 1: And here's some silver lining which is gonna be we 339 00:20:53,440 --> 00:20:56,120 Speaker 1: actively went through when when the three of us work 340 00:20:56,160 --> 00:20:59,480 Speaker 1: out this episode and tried to find silver linings, ladies 341 00:20:59,480 --> 00:21:02,199 Speaker 1: and gentlemen. So one of our first silver linings is 342 00:21:02,240 --> 00:21:06,679 Speaker 1: that serial killers are far far less common than the 343 00:21:06,720 --> 00:21:10,000 Speaker 1: media and culture might have you believe. The FBI and 344 00:21:10,080 --> 00:21:13,520 Speaker 1: other experts estimate that at any given time they're anywhere 345 00:21:13,600 --> 00:21:17,800 Speaker 1: from fifty too well three hundred active serial killers in 346 00:21:17,800 --> 00:21:21,040 Speaker 1: the US. Stuff to prove those numbers for certain. And 347 00:21:21,080 --> 00:21:23,680 Speaker 1: there's one thing for sure, one of the only things 348 00:21:23,800 --> 00:21:28,040 Speaker 1: we know. They're out there somewhere beneath the pale moon line, 349 00:21:28,440 --> 00:21:33,160 Speaker 1: dancing or sometimes just picking up the mail from the post. Yeah, 350 00:21:33,200 --> 00:21:35,359 Speaker 1: don't trust people who go to their mailboxes at night. 351 00:21:36,200 --> 00:21:40,520 Speaker 1: That should be archery d very true. And guess what, 352 00:21:40,680 --> 00:21:42,560 Speaker 1: we're gonna tell you all about it. Right after a 353 00:21:42,640 --> 00:21:55,760 Speaker 1: quick word from our sponsor, here's where it gets crazy. 354 00:21:56,040 --> 00:21:58,040 Speaker 1: At the top of the show, we rambled off several 355 00:21:58,600 --> 00:22:02,960 Speaker 1: different serial killers remain uncought, hanging out somewhere, maybe they died, 356 00:22:03,400 --> 00:22:07,640 Speaker 1: maybe we'll just never find them. But guess what, there 357 00:22:07,640 --> 00:22:11,040 Speaker 1: are quite a few more, and they remain uncought today, 358 00:22:11,160 --> 00:22:16,000 Speaker 1: or at least their crimes remain unsolved. So so many 359 00:22:16,160 --> 00:22:19,159 Speaker 1: of these people out there, we can't cover them all 360 00:22:19,200 --> 00:22:21,080 Speaker 1: in a single episode. We're probably going to do a 361 00:22:21,119 --> 00:22:24,159 Speaker 1: third one of these at some point, or maybe a 362 00:22:24,240 --> 00:22:27,960 Speaker 1: separate show just about crime and serial killers. Oh, that 363 00:22:28,000 --> 00:22:30,440 Speaker 1: would be good, or just a specific show on each one. 364 00:22:31,200 --> 00:22:34,719 Speaker 1: This doesn't mean that these murderers are necessarily anonymous. In 365 00:22:34,760 --> 00:22:38,320 Speaker 1: several cases, investigators are convinced that they have discovered the 366 00:22:38,359 --> 00:22:41,800 Speaker 1: identity of a given killer, but did not have sufficient 367 00:22:41,920 --> 00:22:46,400 Speaker 1: evidence to make an official or clean conviction. And that's 368 00:22:46,480 --> 00:22:49,000 Speaker 1: that's what happens when you're on the side of the 369 00:22:49,560 --> 00:22:52,320 Speaker 1: technically speaking to good guys, you have to obey rules 370 00:22:52,359 --> 00:22:55,439 Speaker 1: that the others do not have to obey. And in 371 00:22:55,480 --> 00:22:58,399 Speaker 1: other cases, a string of murders by an unidentified killer 372 00:22:58,440 --> 00:23:02,199 Speaker 1: may actually be the work of another known murderer. And 373 00:23:02,240 --> 00:23:05,679 Speaker 1: here's where we get to our first example of serial 374 00:23:05,760 --> 00:23:09,560 Speaker 1: killers that remain on the loose Part two. So first 375 00:23:09,600 --> 00:23:12,400 Speaker 1: we're going to talk about a killer by the name 376 00:23:13,359 --> 00:23:17,920 Speaker 1: of Bible John, which, of getta say, is pretty powerful name. 377 00:23:18,000 --> 00:23:22,919 Speaker 1: It sounds like a villain and preacher. Bible John is 378 00:23:22,920 --> 00:23:25,680 Speaker 1: believed to have murdered three young women after meeting them 379 00:23:25,720 --> 00:23:30,840 Speaker 1: at the Barrowland Ballroom in Glasgow, Scotland between nineteen sixty 380 00:23:31,200 --> 00:23:35,240 Speaker 1: nineteen sixty nine. Uh. There was very little doubt that 381 00:23:35,320 --> 00:23:37,560 Speaker 1: these murders were all carried out by the same person. 382 00:23:37,960 --> 00:23:41,760 Speaker 1: All three victims were women, they'd all been strangled, specifically 383 00:23:41,840 --> 00:23:46,080 Speaker 1: with their pantyhose or their nylons. Uh, and they were 384 00:23:46,119 --> 00:23:49,679 Speaker 1: all beaten to death. And the name Bible John is 385 00:23:49,720 --> 00:23:53,760 Speaker 1: derived from the single suspect in the case. The last 386 00:23:53,840 --> 00:23:56,720 Speaker 1: victims shared a taxi with her sister and a man 387 00:23:56,960 --> 00:24:00,399 Speaker 1: who said his name was John was quoting from the 388 00:24:00,440 --> 00:24:04,840 Speaker 1: Bible at them. But because this technically remains unsolved doesn't 389 00:24:04,840 --> 00:24:08,560 Speaker 1: mean they're suspects, right. Several experts believe the Bible John 390 00:24:08,640 --> 00:24:12,600 Speaker 1: murders were in fact committed by a known and convicted 391 00:24:12,680 --> 00:24:17,720 Speaker 1: serial killer with the much less intriguing name Peter Tobin 392 00:24:18,280 --> 00:24:22,119 Speaker 1: So Tobin Um is a convicted Scottish serial killer and 393 00:24:22,240 --> 00:24:25,879 Speaker 1: sex offender who as we speak is serving three life 394 00:24:25,880 --> 00:24:28,920 Speaker 1: sentences um with what they call over there a whole 395 00:24:28,920 --> 00:24:31,760 Speaker 1: life order which is basically like life without the possibility 396 00:24:31,760 --> 00:24:35,960 Speaker 1: of parole at HM prison Edinburgh for three murders committed 397 00:24:36,000 --> 00:24:40,520 Speaker 1: between in two thousand and six with a very similar 398 00:24:40,800 --> 00:24:44,119 Speaker 1: m O and a whole life order. You know, it 399 00:24:44,160 --> 00:24:46,480 Speaker 1: sounds like a weird sign on for a series, but 400 00:24:46,720 --> 00:24:50,120 Speaker 1: it is. It is something that this government will do 401 00:24:50,840 --> 00:24:55,680 Speaker 1: to prevent someone from leaving the prison system in Europe, 402 00:24:56,119 --> 00:24:58,440 Speaker 1: in Eastern or in Western Europe at least, by and large, 403 00:24:58,720 --> 00:25:03,119 Speaker 1: is much more centered on re abilitation rather than you know, 404 00:25:03,640 --> 00:25:09,600 Speaker 1: retribution or using prisoners as cheap labor. Sure, the main 405 00:25:09,640 --> 00:25:12,080 Speaker 1: thing in the US, Right, So this is this guy 406 00:25:13,320 --> 00:25:16,840 Speaker 1: super messed up. He targeted women who are menstruating, young 407 00:25:16,840 --> 00:25:20,240 Speaker 1: women who we would found, who we found at this ballroom, 408 00:25:20,600 --> 00:25:23,920 Speaker 1: and he would this is the kind of thing we're 409 00:25:23,920 --> 00:25:26,440 Speaker 1: talking about where a serial killer can charm you where 410 00:25:26,440 --> 00:25:28,680 Speaker 1: he would meet you meet these women at the bar 411 00:25:28,840 --> 00:25:31,159 Speaker 1: and then essentially go home with them or you know, 412 00:25:31,240 --> 00:25:34,320 Speaker 1: go off with them to have a private moment or something, 413 00:25:35,000 --> 00:25:38,280 Speaker 1: and then he would turn you know, sounds like this 414 00:25:38,359 --> 00:25:41,200 Speaker 1: guy is the very definition of a missionary serial killer. 415 00:25:41,480 --> 00:25:44,000 Speaker 1: If he was targeting menstruating women, it's like he was 416 00:25:44,160 --> 00:25:46,480 Speaker 1: singling them out for what he interpreted to be some 417 00:25:46,560 --> 00:25:51,000 Speaker 1: sort of uncleanliness or impurity I suppose, and then you know, 418 00:25:51,040 --> 00:25:54,680 Speaker 1: wanted to call them from the population. Yeah, it's a 419 00:25:54,720 --> 00:25:56,720 Speaker 1: possibility when you when you get into some of the 420 00:25:57,240 --> 00:26:00,440 Speaker 1: rules and laws that you can find in books of 421 00:26:00,480 --> 00:26:02,920 Speaker 1: the Bible, like Leviticus or something, if you take those 422 00:26:03,080 --> 00:26:07,240 Speaker 1: too seriously, you can get into some dangerous belief and 423 00:26:07,320 --> 00:26:11,560 Speaker 1: thought territory there. Oh, and another thing, he took the 424 00:26:11,600 --> 00:26:14,680 Speaker 1: handbags of these women. He would like dump all the 425 00:26:14,720 --> 00:26:17,520 Speaker 1: stuff out of the handbag and then well, who knows 426 00:26:17,560 --> 00:26:19,239 Speaker 1: if he actually took it or if he hit it 427 00:26:19,359 --> 00:26:22,200 Speaker 1: or got rid of it or something. Fetishes and relics 428 00:26:22,240 --> 00:26:25,480 Speaker 1: and trophies are very common in a lot of serial 429 00:26:25,560 --> 00:26:28,600 Speaker 1: killer cases. Luckily he only got the three. But you 430 00:26:28,600 --> 00:26:31,840 Speaker 1: can imagine, you know, I'm gone unchecked for long enough time, 431 00:26:31,880 --> 00:26:33,600 Speaker 1: you might have found his den and there'll just be 432 00:26:33,680 --> 00:26:36,360 Speaker 1: like a pile of handbags. And if and there may 433 00:26:36,400 --> 00:26:39,480 Speaker 1: well be and if this Bible John is the same 434 00:26:39,520 --> 00:26:44,600 Speaker 1: person as Peter Tobin, what's morbidly fascinating here is that 435 00:26:44,720 --> 00:26:48,160 Speaker 1: we may be able to trace the evolution the increasing 436 00:26:48,200 --> 00:26:52,239 Speaker 1: sophistication of a serial killer, sort of similar to the 437 00:26:52,320 --> 00:26:57,200 Speaker 1: Red Dragon cases uh mentioned in the Animal Lecter series. 438 00:26:59,040 --> 00:27:03,080 Speaker 1: This brings his so so technically, just to sum it up, technically, 439 00:27:03,119 --> 00:27:09,000 Speaker 1: Bible John remains unconvicted or unapprehended, but a growing number 440 00:27:09,160 --> 00:27:13,760 Speaker 1: of investigators convinced that this is actually Peter Tobin. You 441 00:27:13,880 --> 00:27:17,439 Speaker 1: just can't prove it, right, because in the nineteen sixties 442 00:27:17,680 --> 00:27:22,920 Speaker 1: there was nowhere near the level of technological sophistication when 443 00:27:22,920 --> 00:27:27,960 Speaker 1: it came to investigating DNA preserving bodies, et cetera. But 444 00:27:28,119 --> 00:27:30,320 Speaker 1: this is not the only example. Yeah, and next we've 445 00:27:30,359 --> 00:27:33,960 Speaker 1: got the Oakland County child killer, a k A, sorry 446 00:27:34,000 --> 00:27:35,920 Speaker 1: to chuckle. It's just this is kind of fight since 447 00:27:35,920 --> 00:27:37,800 Speaker 1: I got like a villain on the tick or something, 448 00:27:38,119 --> 00:27:41,920 Speaker 1: the babysitter that just makes me shiver, and I shiver rarely. Yeah, 449 00:27:41,960 --> 00:27:44,159 Speaker 1: I know, I see I guess again, I'm doing that 450 00:27:44,200 --> 00:27:46,280 Speaker 1: thing where I'm getting light with it because if you don't, 451 00:27:46,280 --> 00:27:49,840 Speaker 1: then it's like it's almost too much to handle. Defense mechanist. 452 00:27:50,119 --> 00:27:56,040 Speaker 1: Pretty pretty cruel. Um. So the babysitter um concerns serial 453 00:27:56,160 --> 00:28:00,000 Speaker 1: killer a serial killer or killers active in Oakland County, 454 00:28:00,119 --> 00:28:04,280 Speaker 1: Michigan for thirteen months between February nineteen seventy six and 455 00:28:04,480 --> 00:28:09,119 Speaker 1: March nineteen seventy seven. Yeah, and this person or group 456 00:28:09,359 --> 00:28:12,800 Speaker 1: is responsible for the murder of four children, two boys 457 00:28:12,800 --> 00:28:15,119 Speaker 1: and two girls between the ages of ten and twelve. 458 00:28:15,760 --> 00:28:21,720 Speaker 1: So particularly grizzly, and the victims were held captive between 459 00:28:21,800 --> 00:28:25,520 Speaker 1: four and nineteen days before all of numbers slain. Their 460 00:28:25,520 --> 00:28:28,240 Speaker 1: bodies were always found wearing the same clothes in which 461 00:28:28,240 --> 00:28:31,720 Speaker 1: they were last seen, all quote neatly laid out on 462 00:28:31,760 --> 00:28:35,240 Speaker 1: the ground in various locations around this place in Michigan, 463 00:28:35,240 --> 00:28:41,560 Speaker 1: Oakland County. UM and the babysitter moniker comes from this 464 00:28:41,600 --> 00:28:45,400 Speaker 1: process of cleaning the bodies after they were finished with 465 00:28:45,520 --> 00:28:49,120 Speaker 1: whatever they were doing with them. Um, in his thought 466 00:28:49,240 --> 00:28:52,360 Speaker 1: that it was postmortem, that they were cleaned, like fingernails 467 00:28:52,360 --> 00:28:54,760 Speaker 1: clipped and everything. Right, I bet there was no evidence 468 00:28:54,760 --> 00:28:59,040 Speaker 1: of sexual assault. There was, Man, I hate even talking 469 00:28:59,080 --> 00:29:01,680 Speaker 1: about this. Don't listen to this if you're a kid. Um, 470 00:29:01,720 --> 00:29:07,000 Speaker 1: there was tearing specifically on the boys. So yes, So 471 00:29:07,080 --> 00:29:09,480 Speaker 1: this was a process killer. It sounds like it. Just 472 00:29:09,800 --> 00:29:11,840 Speaker 1: the only reason I say I said that was because 473 00:29:12,480 --> 00:29:17,080 Speaker 1: it makes me think of like I think things I've 474 00:29:17,120 --> 00:29:19,640 Speaker 1: seen in crime shows where a lot of times the 475 00:29:19,720 --> 00:29:22,320 Speaker 1: killers when they when they lay the body out with 476 00:29:22,360 --> 00:29:25,640 Speaker 1: such care and precision, they're almost like, you know, trying 477 00:29:25,640 --> 00:29:31,120 Speaker 1: to honor the body and so buying it. So I'm wondering. 478 00:29:31,880 --> 00:29:35,000 Speaker 1: But but I guess there was sexual motive. Huh. There 479 00:29:35,000 --> 00:29:39,120 Speaker 1: appears to be. And when you start looking at the suspects, well, again, 480 00:29:39,160 --> 00:29:42,640 Speaker 1: these are suspects that as the Internet has grown and 481 00:29:42,720 --> 00:29:45,280 Speaker 1: there's more and more information out there and people can 482 00:29:45,400 --> 00:29:48,880 Speaker 1: become a sleuth online, a lot of this stuff has 483 00:29:49,320 --> 00:29:52,200 Speaker 1: come to light and also from the parents of some 484 00:29:52,280 --> 00:29:54,840 Speaker 1: of the victims. So what what are Can you tell 485 00:29:54,880 --> 00:29:57,360 Speaker 1: us a little bit about the suspects. Sure, so one 486 00:29:57,440 --> 00:30:01,400 Speaker 1: of them, uh is Christopher Bush? Said, this is this 487 00:30:01,440 --> 00:30:04,240 Speaker 1: guy's name. He was the son of a gentleman named 488 00:30:04,280 --> 00:30:08,480 Speaker 1: Harold Lee Bush at the time was the executive financial 489 00:30:08,520 --> 00:30:13,120 Speaker 1: director of General Motors. Very well to do suspect. Yeah, 490 00:30:13,120 --> 00:30:16,800 Speaker 1: a family of well to do people. Um. Let's see. 491 00:30:16,840 --> 00:30:20,120 Speaker 1: At the time there was this place called Brother Paul's 492 00:30:20,240 --> 00:30:24,920 Speaker 1: Children's Mission, which was located on North Fox Island in 493 00:30:25,000 --> 00:30:27,920 Speaker 1: Lake Michigan. So I don't want to get too much 494 00:30:27,920 --> 00:30:30,800 Speaker 1: in the geography, but if if you're looking at a 495 00:30:30,800 --> 00:30:33,520 Speaker 1: picture of Michigan and you're just looking at the north 496 00:30:33,720 --> 00:30:35,800 Speaker 1: nor northern tip of it, if you go a little 497 00:30:35,840 --> 00:30:38,440 Speaker 1: bit to the west, that's where North and South Fox 498 00:30:38,480 --> 00:30:41,960 Speaker 1: Islands are. And this was a front for an underground 499 00:30:42,160 --> 00:30:46,680 Speaker 1: child porn network where all the terrible things that happened 500 00:30:46,680 --> 00:30:49,200 Speaker 1: to children within one of those they were occurring on 501 00:30:49,240 --> 00:30:53,080 Speaker 1: this island. And there was an investigation into this, this 502 00:30:53,240 --> 00:30:56,360 Speaker 1: ring of people who were making child pornography, and this guy, 503 00:30:56,440 --> 00:30:59,880 Speaker 1: Christopher Bush, was caught up in it. They commiscated eight 504 00:31:00,200 --> 00:31:02,760 Speaker 1: rolls of film from this guy. How old he was 505 00:31:02,760 --> 00:31:04,800 Speaker 1: twenty five at the time, so young enough to be 506 00:31:04,920 --> 00:31:08,640 Speaker 1: very active, yes, But then you know, he ends up 507 00:31:08,680 --> 00:31:13,040 Speaker 1: getting arrested again for some more criminal sexual conduct involving 508 00:31:13,160 --> 00:31:16,400 Speaker 1: children with someone with some other dude named Gregory Green. 509 00:31:16,800 --> 00:31:19,400 Speaker 1: But where it gets a little crazy here is that 510 00:31:19,800 --> 00:31:23,840 Speaker 1: Gregory Green ended up being held on a seventy five 511 00:31:24,160 --> 00:31:27,720 Speaker 1: dollar bond. But this guy, Christopher, he got off every 512 00:31:28,160 --> 00:31:30,120 Speaker 1: He didn't get out completely, but he got away with 513 00:31:30,160 --> 00:31:33,800 Speaker 1: a one thousand dollar bond. And you know, you imagine 514 00:31:33,960 --> 00:31:38,560 Speaker 1: having on powerful, rich family maybe that helped out there. 515 00:31:39,000 --> 00:31:42,120 Speaker 1: So he was arrested in February of seventy seven, but 516 00:31:42,160 --> 00:31:47,160 Speaker 1: the murders continued till March, yes, and there was a sheriff, 517 00:31:47,400 --> 00:31:50,320 Speaker 1: like a nearby sheriff department. They got a phone call 518 00:31:50,520 --> 00:31:53,560 Speaker 1: that this guy was seen by just a neighbor or 519 00:31:53,600 --> 00:31:58,000 Speaker 1: something at a cottage I guess that the family owned 520 00:31:58,040 --> 00:32:01,360 Speaker 1: that was quite a bit north of where the family's 521 00:32:01,400 --> 00:32:05,080 Speaker 1: main house was. And this person knew that this guy 522 00:32:05,120 --> 00:32:08,240 Speaker 1: Bush was not supposed to be around miners, around kids, 523 00:32:08,600 --> 00:32:11,600 Speaker 1: and he was apparently hanging out at this cottage with them. 524 00:32:11,640 --> 00:32:14,960 Speaker 1: And this was on March nineteen. And here's the thing. 525 00:32:15,000 --> 00:32:18,680 Speaker 1: The final victim, Timothy King, went missing from March sixteenth 526 00:32:19,080 --> 00:32:23,280 Speaker 1: until March twenty two when his body was found and 527 00:32:23,360 --> 00:32:27,600 Speaker 1: what happened to Christopher bush Well Ben According to his 528 00:32:27,640 --> 00:32:32,880 Speaker 1: death certificate, this guy died by committing suicide on November twentieth, 529 00:32:33,000 --> 00:32:35,560 Speaker 1: nineteen seventy eight, when he was twenty seven years old, 530 00:32:35,680 --> 00:32:39,840 Speaker 1: So just about a year after these killings had stopped, 531 00:32:39,920 --> 00:32:44,640 Speaker 1: these four killings. And I don't know, it's not weird, 532 00:32:44,680 --> 00:32:47,480 Speaker 1: I guess, but his body was cremated and the house 533 00:32:47,520 --> 00:32:49,880 Speaker 1: where he lived with his parents was then sold off 534 00:32:50,000 --> 00:32:53,480 Speaker 1: very soon after. You can understand why survivors would want 535 00:32:53,520 --> 00:32:58,160 Speaker 1: to forget that memory, Yes, even just from the previous 536 00:32:58,280 --> 00:33:00,320 Speaker 1: you know times, the things he had gotten into trouble 537 00:33:00,360 --> 00:33:03,360 Speaker 1: for right, even if he wasn't the killer of these children. 538 00:33:03,560 --> 00:33:06,000 Speaker 1: And he's not the only suspect. No. Next we have 539 00:33:06,080 --> 00:33:10,120 Speaker 1: Francis D. Sheldon, who was a well known multi millionaire 540 00:33:10,240 --> 00:33:14,600 Speaker 1: actually from an immensely wealthy family who were the sole 541 00:33:14,680 --> 00:33:18,960 Speaker 1: owners of North Fox Island. Member of that island, pretty 542 00:33:18,960 --> 00:33:21,000 Speaker 1: pretty high up on the hog if you own an island, 543 00:33:21,000 --> 00:33:23,000 Speaker 1: No I do not. This is the island that had 544 00:33:23,120 --> 00:33:25,560 Speaker 1: brother Paul's children's mission on it that was a front 545 00:33:25,600 --> 00:33:29,000 Speaker 1: for a child porn ring. Oh my gosh, interesting gikes. 546 00:33:30,160 --> 00:33:33,440 Speaker 1: Sheldon fled the country to the Netherlands to avoid charges 547 00:33:33,480 --> 00:33:37,560 Speaker 1: of sexual misconduct to adolescent boys from Port her On 548 00:33:38,200 --> 00:33:41,560 Speaker 1: told family members that Francis Sheldon had molested and photographed 549 00:33:41,560 --> 00:33:46,680 Speaker 1: them on this island. Evidence taken from child porn magazines 550 00:33:46,880 --> 00:33:51,480 Speaker 1: showed children with a background identified as being in the 551 00:33:51,680 --> 00:33:54,480 Speaker 1: North Fox Island, right, verifying that the boys had been 552 00:33:54,760 --> 00:33:57,680 Speaker 1: to the island. And there were reports of Sheldon's death 553 00:33:57,680 --> 00:34:01,880 Speaker 1: that surfaced in um and a Michigan warrant for him 554 00:34:01,920 --> 00:34:05,240 Speaker 1: was canceled in May of nineteen nine seven, with state 555 00:34:05,240 --> 00:34:10,200 Speaker 1: police reporting quote exceptional clearance, suspect is dead and cannot 556 00:34:10,239 --> 00:34:15,240 Speaker 1: be prosecuted, but was obviously involved, right. I mean, that's 557 00:34:15,760 --> 00:34:19,440 Speaker 1: you're starting to see a picture here of perhaps a 558 00:34:19,680 --> 00:34:24,800 Speaker 1: group of people who were, you know, doing terrible things 559 00:34:24,840 --> 00:34:29,799 Speaker 1: to children on an island and then possibly which is 560 00:34:30,280 --> 00:34:34,800 Speaker 1: Pedophile rings are unfortunately often dismissed as crackpot conspiracy theories, 561 00:34:35,360 --> 00:34:40,239 Speaker 1: but there is hard evidence that they have existed. One 562 00:34:40,320 --> 00:34:44,600 Speaker 1: needn't look no further than Jimmy Saville and wonder which 563 00:34:44,640 --> 00:34:48,719 Speaker 1: of his current living friends will be posthumously exposed as 564 00:34:48,800 --> 00:34:54,320 Speaker 1: yet another monster. Just a side note, and most importantly 565 00:34:54,360 --> 00:34:57,560 Speaker 1: this ties into a future episode. No spoilers. Uh, there 566 00:34:57,600 --> 00:35:02,320 Speaker 1: are people who are concerned that Sheldon and some of 567 00:35:02,360 --> 00:35:08,560 Speaker 1: his associates did not actually die, but that they switched identities. 568 00:35:08,760 --> 00:35:13,440 Speaker 1: And we will have an upcoming episode that looks at 569 00:35:14,080 --> 00:35:18,760 Speaker 1: how possible plausible or impossible implausible it is to fake 570 00:35:18,840 --> 00:35:22,160 Speaker 1: one's death. It's gonna be fascinating. I can't wait for 571 00:35:22,200 --> 00:35:24,520 Speaker 1: you to hear it. Over the years, several lawsuits have 572 00:35:24,600 --> 00:35:27,520 Speaker 1: been filed against the Oakland County Prosecutor's Office by the 573 00:35:27,600 --> 00:35:30,399 Speaker 1: victims families. Most of these come from a guy named 574 00:35:30,400 --> 00:35:33,839 Speaker 1: Barry King, the father of Timothy King, and deal with 575 00:35:34,600 --> 00:35:37,239 Speaker 1: what are called Freedom of Information Act or f o I, 576 00:35:37,320 --> 00:35:41,360 Speaker 1: a request because he feels like he has been denied 577 00:35:42,200 --> 00:35:47,919 Speaker 1: the information regarding the Timothy King case, specifically by law enforcement. Yeah, 578 00:35:48,000 --> 00:35:52,719 Speaker 1: pertaining to the suspects that we outlined there. And just 579 00:35:52,800 --> 00:35:55,960 Speaker 1: a side note this, If you want to learn more 580 00:35:56,000 --> 00:35:58,279 Speaker 1: about this, I would caution you away from it just 581 00:35:58,360 --> 00:36:01,040 Speaker 1: because it is a dark, dark used to go. But 582 00:36:01,680 --> 00:36:06,000 Speaker 1: if you do want to um, there are places you 583 00:36:06,040 --> 00:36:09,480 Speaker 1: can find information. Katherine Broad, who is one of the 584 00:36:09,520 --> 00:36:13,560 Speaker 1: sisters of the victims. Uh, Timothy King was her brother. 585 00:36:13,960 --> 00:36:16,480 Speaker 1: She's got a website Katherine broad b r O a 586 00:36:16,600 --> 00:36:20,240 Speaker 1: d dot blog. There's a documentary called Decades of Deceit 587 00:36:20,320 --> 00:36:22,759 Speaker 1: that was produced by the King family. And there's a 588 00:36:22,800 --> 00:36:25,600 Speaker 1: Reddit user named o c c K Throwaway that made 589 00:36:25,600 --> 00:36:28,399 Speaker 1: these four really long in depth posts where you can 590 00:36:29,080 --> 00:36:31,759 Speaker 1: their links galore there and you can just follow the 591 00:36:31,840 --> 00:36:36,960 Speaker 1: rabbit hole to your own insanity. And speaking of insanity 592 00:36:37,000 --> 00:36:41,080 Speaker 1: and rabbit holes, let's continue a bit further. Uh, Well, 593 00:36:41,120 --> 00:36:45,800 Speaker 1: I believe you will like this moniker, the Freeway Phantom. 594 00:36:45,840 --> 00:36:47,879 Speaker 1: You know, it's a shame that it went to such 595 00:36:47,880 --> 00:36:51,120 Speaker 1: a monstrous person because I would love to, you know, 596 00:36:51,760 --> 00:36:54,319 Speaker 1: have a friend known as the Freeway Phantom because they 597 00:36:54,320 --> 00:36:57,680 Speaker 1: were good at a smuggling course, like in smoking the 598 00:36:57,719 --> 00:37:01,200 Speaker 1: Bandit or something. Yeahor they ghost rode the whip to perfection. 599 00:37:04,040 --> 00:37:05,880 Speaker 1: You know, there could be a whole phantom squad of 600 00:37:05,920 --> 00:37:09,600 Speaker 1: phantom cadre. Well, here's what happened in this case. An 601 00:37:09,680 --> 00:37:15,720 Speaker 1: unidentified assailant abducted, sexually, assaulted, and strangled six female youths 602 00:37:15,760 --> 00:37:18,960 Speaker 1: in Washington, d C. From April of seventy one through 603 00:37:18,960 --> 00:37:22,960 Speaker 1: September seventy two. The victims were all African American girls. 604 00:37:23,080 --> 00:37:25,680 Speaker 1: They were all between the ages of ten and eighteen. 605 00:37:26,200 --> 00:37:29,880 Speaker 1: The phantom left hand written notes too, and statements from 606 00:37:30,000 --> 00:37:34,040 Speaker 1: victims before their deaths heavily implied the killer was a 607 00:37:34,160 --> 00:37:38,120 Speaker 1: white male, and it was very, very hard to tract this. 608 00:37:38,320 --> 00:37:43,799 Speaker 1: In these cases, allegations of police UH not putting in 609 00:37:43,920 --> 00:37:47,799 Speaker 1: enough effort repeatedly surfaced. We saw some similar things like 610 00:37:47,840 --> 00:37:53,000 Speaker 1: this with the Atlanta UH strangulations of child murders. Seems 611 00:37:53,160 --> 00:37:58,360 Speaker 1: racially motivated, possibly right for which in Atlanta Wayne Williams 612 00:37:58,640 --> 00:38:03,120 Speaker 1: is currently incarcerated. So this is a case where investigators 613 00:38:03,239 --> 00:38:08,200 Speaker 1: feel like they had the person they traced. This is 614 00:38:08,480 --> 00:38:12,920 Speaker 1: very grizzly stuff. They they started looking at people who 615 00:38:13,000 --> 00:38:15,839 Speaker 1: would have similar m os. Right, That's the first thing 616 00:38:15,880 --> 00:38:18,680 Speaker 1: you do, has is there any legal Is there anybody 617 00:38:18,680 --> 00:38:22,359 Speaker 1: in the legal system that has been proven to already 618 00:38:23,120 --> 00:38:26,560 Speaker 1: have either the wherewithal or the motivation to commit these 619 00:38:26,560 --> 00:38:31,960 Speaker 1: sorts of horrendous acts. And they immediately gravitated towards members 620 00:38:31,960 --> 00:38:35,960 Speaker 1: of a group called the Green Vega Game. Law enforcement 621 00:38:35,960 --> 00:38:38,719 Speaker 1: officials involved with the case believed that four men who 622 00:38:38,760 --> 00:38:43,320 Speaker 1: were involved in hundreds hundreds of rapes from nineteen sixty 623 00:38:43,400 --> 00:38:47,360 Speaker 1: nine to nineteen seventy three were implicated in the child murders, 624 00:38:47,520 --> 00:38:50,399 Speaker 1: but they weren't convicted, and as he said, they were 625 00:38:50,440 --> 00:38:54,120 Speaker 1: collectively just four guys collectively responsible for these crimes in 626 00:38:54,239 --> 00:38:57,680 Speaker 1: d C and in Maryland, and they were also involved 627 00:38:58,000 --> 00:39:05,640 Speaker 1: in abductions. So the police individually interviewed these gang members 628 00:39:06,120 --> 00:39:09,320 Speaker 1: and then they visit a prison in Lorton, Virginia, where 629 00:39:09,440 --> 00:39:15,680 Speaker 1: the gang members were serving sentences um due to unrelated convictions. 630 00:39:15,800 --> 00:39:19,000 Speaker 1: Right during the interviews, this is weird, one gang member 631 00:39:19,040 --> 00:39:23,799 Speaker 1: initially implicated another member and said, well, this guy said 632 00:39:23,840 --> 00:39:25,719 Speaker 1: he did it, and here's how he told me he 633 00:39:25,800 --> 00:39:29,800 Speaker 1: did it. And the thing is, uh, both inmates were 634 00:39:29,840 --> 00:39:34,719 Speaker 1: serving time at this same prison, and the one who 635 00:39:34,800 --> 00:39:36,799 Speaker 1: was giving the info said, well, I'll tell you the 636 00:39:36,840 --> 00:39:40,279 Speaker 1: whole story, but only if I remain anonymous. So he 637 00:39:40,360 --> 00:39:42,879 Speaker 1: identified the inmate who told him the story, the time 638 00:39:42,920 --> 00:39:46,560 Speaker 1: and the location of the crime, and certain specific details 639 00:39:46,719 --> 00:39:49,680 Speaker 1: which were not provided to the public, but which were 640 00:39:49,719 --> 00:39:53,080 Speaker 1: known only as far as the cops could figure out 641 00:39:54,400 --> 00:39:57,960 Speaker 1: to the detectives and to the freeway phantom. So the 642 00:39:58,000 --> 00:40:02,160 Speaker 1: information checked out. So they found their guy, right, the 643 00:40:02,280 --> 00:40:05,520 Speaker 1: guy that this one person they interviewed pointed a finger 644 00:40:05,520 --> 00:40:08,239 Speaker 1: at right. Yeah, but that's that's like Um, it's not 645 00:40:08,320 --> 00:40:11,200 Speaker 1: quite a smoking gun, but that is very close to 646 00:40:11,280 --> 00:40:15,919 Speaker 1: smoking gun, where you know, if if just the investigators 647 00:40:15,920 --> 00:40:20,080 Speaker 1: and then right, because there's no you can't really count 648 00:40:20,320 --> 00:40:26,120 Speaker 1: on somebody wild guessing specific. Here's the problem though, here's 649 00:40:26,120 --> 00:40:28,560 Speaker 1: why he's still on the list. Because they had amassed 650 00:40:28,600 --> 00:40:32,200 Speaker 1: all this evidence and they were ready to move, but 651 00:40:32,239 --> 00:40:37,120 Speaker 1: then something happened. The case files were lost and then 652 00:40:37,200 --> 00:40:43,160 Speaker 1: like everything gone, poof, poof, goodbye. How does that even happen? 653 00:40:43,719 --> 00:40:51,360 Speaker 1: Isn't that somebody was inside right just in the seventies. Yeah, 654 00:40:51,440 --> 00:40:53,920 Speaker 1: I mean, you know, it's still all paper, all paper, 655 00:40:54,120 --> 00:40:55,920 Speaker 1: so I mean they you know, and I'm sure they 656 00:40:55,920 --> 00:40:58,960 Speaker 1: have duplicates on some level, but it wouldn't be that 657 00:40:59,160 --> 00:41:03,000 Speaker 1: much of a stretch too have them find their way 658 00:41:03,000 --> 00:41:05,960 Speaker 1: into a fire of some sort. But it sounds like 659 00:41:06,040 --> 00:41:07,960 Speaker 1: intentional to me, is I guess? Is what I'm getting at? 660 00:41:08,040 --> 00:41:12,760 Speaker 1: You know, because all of the files, you know, especially 661 00:41:12,800 --> 00:41:15,480 Speaker 1: when you consider how much paperwork they had to generate 662 00:41:15,840 --> 00:41:18,919 Speaker 1: in the course of this kind of investigation, people with 663 00:41:19,400 --> 00:41:24,160 Speaker 1: you know, stacks and stacks of rap sheets alone, unrelated 664 00:41:24,680 --> 00:41:28,320 Speaker 1: and they all know each other and they're like children. 665 00:41:28,800 --> 00:41:32,560 Speaker 1: So of course, the community to this day doesn't buy that. 666 00:41:32,680 --> 00:41:37,520 Speaker 1: This gets me starting to think about serial killer cults. Yeah, yeah, 667 00:41:37,560 --> 00:41:39,440 Speaker 1: he is. Well, I don't want to think about that, 668 00:41:39,520 --> 00:41:43,600 Speaker 1: you guys, more nightmare stuff for me. Well, if they exist, 669 00:41:43,680 --> 00:41:46,520 Speaker 1: they don't want you to think about it either. Good 670 00:41:46,520 --> 00:41:48,759 Speaker 1: for they put hair on your chest, No they don't. 671 00:41:48,880 --> 00:41:52,200 Speaker 1: You're smooth, smooth, baby like chest. I don't want them 672 00:41:52,239 --> 00:41:54,759 Speaker 1: to put peep in my bed because then I might 673 00:41:54,800 --> 00:41:57,880 Speaker 1: be a serial killer. Yeah, so that's that's what happened 674 00:41:57,880 --> 00:41:59,879 Speaker 1: with that one. But we have next. Can I say 675 00:41:59,880 --> 00:42:01,560 Speaker 1: this one because I just love saying yeah, yeah, give 676 00:42:01,560 --> 00:42:06,279 Speaker 1: it a shot. The Maniac of Nova Spiritsk, the Maniac 677 00:42:06,800 --> 00:42:11,680 Speaker 1: of Nova Speirsk. So this is, uh, this is an 678 00:42:11,680 --> 00:42:16,920 Speaker 1: interesting case. This is more recent. There were seventeen women 679 00:42:17,000 --> 00:42:21,960 Speaker 1: murdered between two thousand six very specific m o in 680 00:42:22,120 --> 00:42:27,840 Speaker 1: a town in Russia called The victims were found on 681 00:42:27,880 --> 00:42:32,439 Speaker 1: the outskirts of town. They were mutilated in decapitated dismembered 682 00:42:33,200 --> 00:42:36,719 Speaker 1: symbols were carved into their bodies, and in every case 683 00:42:36,760 --> 00:42:40,560 Speaker 1: their hearts were removed. Often this disfigurement was so extreme 684 00:42:40,920 --> 00:42:45,520 Speaker 1: that law enforcement could not identify the bodyans fingerprints, gone 685 00:42:46,239 --> 00:42:52,880 Speaker 1: dental in any any teeth, probably knocked out, tattoos, scraped 686 00:42:52,920 --> 00:42:56,760 Speaker 1: off the skin. Okay, they had a few things in common. 687 00:42:56,800 --> 00:42:59,319 Speaker 1: They were all women, they were all locals, and they 688 00:42:59,360 --> 00:43:03,480 Speaker 1: were all prostitutes. In two thousand and six, for some reason, 689 00:43:04,480 --> 00:43:08,759 Speaker 1: the killings just stopped, and that is something that's extraordinarily rare. 690 00:43:08,800 --> 00:43:11,160 Speaker 1: In the case of the babysitter, you know, we saw 691 00:43:11,239 --> 00:43:16,120 Speaker 1: a very short thirteen month period, right with four known victims, 692 00:43:16,120 --> 00:43:22,600 Speaker 1: but that that leads us to believe that if circumstances 693 00:43:22,680 --> 00:43:27,960 Speaker 1: hadn't changed, those killings would have continued. So it's very 694 00:43:27,960 --> 00:43:31,200 Speaker 1: strange for this stuff to stop. The murderer disappeared, and 695 00:43:31,360 --> 00:43:35,040 Speaker 1: this led police to believe something that there are usually 696 00:43:35,160 --> 00:43:38,520 Speaker 1: three common things that happened, three common explanations when a 697 00:43:38,560 --> 00:43:42,840 Speaker 1: serial killer or a series of murders stops occurring, and 698 00:43:42,840 --> 00:43:45,720 Speaker 1: the police will always assume, well that killers maybe moved, 699 00:43:46,280 --> 00:43:50,560 Speaker 1: or they've died, or have been arrested on another crime, right, 700 00:43:51,280 --> 00:43:54,920 Speaker 1: And in this case, they still continued to hunt for 701 00:43:54,960 --> 00:44:01,320 Speaker 1: the killer, and they found really interesting series of suspects. 702 00:44:02,000 --> 00:44:06,560 Speaker 1: Um In two thousand and fifteen, the police arrested a 703 00:44:06,600 --> 00:44:10,360 Speaker 1: cab driver by the name of Alexei Ivanov on suspicion 704 00:44:10,640 --> 00:44:14,120 Speaker 1: of the murders um He instead confessed to a series 705 00:44:14,160 --> 00:44:18,480 Speaker 1: of unrelated murders, also all women. Yeah, I mean, I 706 00:44:18,520 --> 00:44:21,480 Speaker 1: guess where there's smoke, there's fire. So what we're saying 707 00:44:21,520 --> 00:44:24,920 Speaker 1: here is that apparently Nova's Bearrisk is a is a 708 00:44:24,960 --> 00:44:29,080 Speaker 1: pretty pretty tough neighborhood. You know. Can you imagine that 709 00:44:29,360 --> 00:44:32,080 Speaker 1: you're searching for one serial killer, which is already so rare, 710 00:44:32,200 --> 00:44:35,279 Speaker 1: and in the process you pick up another guy. It's like, well, yeah, 711 00:44:35,320 --> 00:44:38,800 Speaker 1: I killed of course I killed a series of not 712 00:44:38,800 --> 00:44:41,319 Speaker 1: not those not those though, those aren't those aren't mine. 713 00:44:41,360 --> 00:44:43,560 Speaker 1: It's probably like one of those small towns in like 714 00:44:43,640 --> 00:44:47,680 Speaker 1: British cops shows where there's a serial murderer like a week, 715 00:44:48,000 --> 00:44:50,960 Speaker 1: you know, right, Yeah, that's the weirdest thing about Suspension 716 00:44:50,960 --> 00:44:54,760 Speaker 1: of Disbelief. Yeah, you know, it's a small town. Everybody 717 00:44:54,840 --> 00:44:58,600 Speaker 1: still leaves their doors unlocked, despite the fact that about 718 00:44:58,680 --> 00:45:02,759 Speaker 1: once every year or so someone kills twenty people. Not 719 00:45:02,840 --> 00:45:05,160 Speaker 1: only that, like you can even go further where it's 720 00:45:05,200 --> 00:45:07,799 Speaker 1: like with Scooby Doo, like are they traveling around and 721 00:45:07,840 --> 00:45:09,160 Speaker 1: that show? I mean, I guess they are. They're kind 722 00:45:09,160 --> 00:45:11,560 Speaker 1: of on tour, right, are they a band? It's not 723 00:45:11,600 --> 00:45:14,319 Speaker 1: clear what they do a whole lot of time on 724 00:45:14,360 --> 00:45:17,799 Speaker 1: the mythology. No, it's been a while for me. Yeah, 725 00:45:17,840 --> 00:45:19,960 Speaker 1: at least with jabber Ja, Like they were definitely a band, 726 00:45:19,960 --> 00:45:21,680 Speaker 1: you know, jabber Jar was totally like a one to 727 00:45:21,800 --> 00:45:24,239 Speaker 1: one of Scooby Doo. They solved that they had like 728 00:45:24,400 --> 00:45:27,839 Speaker 1: they had the talking animal with a speech impediment, even 729 00:45:27,880 --> 00:45:30,680 Speaker 1: like I think Dude War and Ascott and Jabbraga too. Anyway, 730 00:45:30,719 --> 00:45:32,960 Speaker 1: we digress back to the grizzly stuff. You see what 731 00:45:32,960 --> 00:45:34,720 Speaker 1: I'm trying. I'm trying to d I'm trying to derail 732 00:45:34,760 --> 00:45:37,880 Speaker 1: this a little bit because this is just so darn upsetting. 733 00:45:37,960 --> 00:45:41,239 Speaker 1: But we will sally forth. There was a different suspect. Yeah, 734 00:45:41,239 --> 00:45:44,440 Speaker 1: so there was, in fact another suspect. In sixteen, police 735 00:45:44,520 --> 00:45:48,719 Speaker 1: arrested a former cop by the name of Avengly Choopliss 736 00:45:48,880 --> 00:45:52,600 Speaker 1: Mixlean forgive my utter garbage pronunciation there, I'm doing the 737 00:45:52,600 --> 00:45:58,000 Speaker 1: best I can. Um. This individual was suspected of the murders, 738 00:45:58,200 --> 00:46:01,440 Speaker 1: though he had yet to be evicted. Um. And here's 739 00:46:01,480 --> 00:46:04,320 Speaker 1: a little interesting, twisty side note. I'm not going to 740 00:46:04,400 --> 00:46:07,200 Speaker 1: say his name again, tell you that right now? What 741 00:46:07,239 --> 00:46:10,160 Speaker 1: couldn't call him? Mr T. Mr T. Not to be 742 00:46:10,200 --> 00:46:12,600 Speaker 1: confused with the mr T. This is the Russian msr T. 743 00:46:13,000 --> 00:46:15,840 Speaker 1: For the purposes of our show, Mr T was arrested 744 00:46:15,880 --> 00:46:19,680 Speaker 1: by Russia's Ministry of Internal Affairs, which I guess means 745 00:46:19,719 --> 00:46:23,600 Speaker 1: that he was under investigation as a dirty cop potentially 746 00:46:23,920 --> 00:46:26,920 Speaker 1: um not local law enforcement, right, So that's I think 747 00:46:26,920 --> 00:46:31,360 Speaker 1: that's the thing. So the trial laundry internally exactly exactly, 748 00:46:31,719 --> 00:46:34,320 Speaker 1: but on a federal level, on a federal level exactly. 749 00:46:34,360 --> 00:46:37,960 Speaker 1: So the trial UM is in fact moving forward. And 750 00:46:38,080 --> 00:46:42,680 Speaker 1: while the ministry is almost certain that this is their guy, um, 751 00:46:42,719 --> 00:46:44,920 Speaker 1: he has yet to be convicted, even though DNA was 752 00:46:44,960 --> 00:46:47,680 Speaker 1: found on some of the prostitutes, which he explains as 753 00:46:47,680 --> 00:46:50,880 Speaker 1: a result of him spending a lot of time with 754 00:46:51,040 --> 00:46:54,480 Speaker 1: prostitutes while on dutyous. Yeah, one of the one of 755 00:46:54,520 --> 00:46:58,440 Speaker 1: the way he explained it is, um, no, I have 756 00:46:58,560 --> 00:47:01,319 Speaker 1: to have my irritual eat. You know, I have to 757 00:47:01,480 --> 00:47:04,840 Speaker 1: know who is going where, who was driving drunk? I 758 00:47:04,920 --> 00:47:07,920 Speaker 1: go find drunk driver. Maybe he gives me a bribe, 759 00:47:08,200 --> 00:47:11,719 Speaker 1: skip some paperwork. So he painted it as sort of 760 00:47:11,800 --> 00:47:17,200 Speaker 1: his unofficial job duties, right, deep deep cover as it were, 761 00:47:17,360 --> 00:47:21,239 Speaker 1: apparently right, and then at one point he confessed he 762 00:47:21,320 --> 00:47:25,000 Speaker 1: and he said that he did the symbols on purpose. 763 00:47:25,080 --> 00:47:28,840 Speaker 1: And this was actually in a brutal calculation. This was 764 00:47:28,880 --> 00:47:31,440 Speaker 1: actually pretty smart on his behalf, because if he was 765 00:47:31,480 --> 00:47:34,400 Speaker 1: a police officer, he knew how to hide evidence or 766 00:47:34,400 --> 00:47:38,080 Speaker 1: he should have. Um, and he wanted the murders to 767 00:47:38,360 --> 00:47:42,719 Speaker 1: look a cult or satanic in nature. And he said 768 00:47:42,760 --> 00:47:44,880 Speaker 1: he wanted to, you know, have a red herring for 769 00:47:44,920 --> 00:47:48,520 Speaker 1: the police. But then later he recanted and he said, no, 770 00:47:49,000 --> 00:47:53,160 Speaker 1: I did that under pressure. If a Vegni, Chuplinsky or 771 00:47:53,239 --> 00:47:55,880 Speaker 1: Mr T is convicted, he would be another example of 772 00:47:55,920 --> 00:47:58,279 Speaker 1: a killer who appeared to get away only to be 773 00:47:58,360 --> 00:48:03,279 Speaker 1: captured months, years, or even decades later. And this lets 774 00:48:03,320 --> 00:48:07,720 Speaker 1: us end on a little bit less of a bleak note, 775 00:48:08,520 --> 00:48:12,600 Speaker 1: because these sorts of killers, well they may get away 776 00:48:12,640 --> 00:48:18,840 Speaker 1: for a long time, are often apprehended one way or another. 777 00:48:19,080 --> 00:48:20,800 Speaker 1: And we'll tell you about just a few after a 778 00:48:20,800 --> 00:48:33,160 Speaker 1: word from our sponsor, and we're back, you know, on 779 00:48:33,200 --> 00:48:34,960 Speaker 1: a site note, just to keep it light, which I 780 00:48:34,960 --> 00:48:37,680 Speaker 1: think is a good move. Um. One thing that always 781 00:48:37,680 --> 00:48:40,600 Speaker 1: got to me about Scooby Doo is how it's so 782 00:48:40,800 --> 00:48:44,640 Speaker 1: rarely turned out to be supernatural, always bothering me. Well, no, 783 00:48:44,719 --> 00:48:47,359 Speaker 1: I mean, in the original series it was never supernatural. 784 00:48:47,520 --> 00:48:51,960 Speaker 1: It was always something, always old man from the Honored 785 00:48:52,000 --> 00:48:55,360 Speaker 1: Amusement Park or whatever. It wasn't until like the twenty 786 00:48:55,400 --> 00:48:57,880 Speaker 1: one Ghosts of Scooby Doo with Vincent Price, where it 787 00:48:57,960 --> 00:48:59,799 Speaker 1: was there were definitely ghosts in that one. There were 788 00:48:59,840 --> 00:49:02,960 Speaker 1: other iterations of the show where there were supernatural elements, 789 00:49:03,000 --> 00:49:06,000 Speaker 1: but the original series. And you think they'd eventually catch 790 00:49:06,040 --> 00:49:11,760 Speaker 1: on and stop getting spooked, or at least start discriminating 791 00:49:11,920 --> 00:49:16,080 Speaker 1: against their profiling old guys, old white guys, you know 792 00:49:16,120 --> 00:49:20,280 Speaker 1: what I mean, sometimes women. Maybe it was a cautionary tale, 793 00:49:21,040 --> 00:49:26,280 Speaker 1: uh for you know, old white guys for kids. Speaking 794 00:49:26,280 --> 00:49:30,080 Speaker 1: of older white guys. Vans and vans. Although I would 795 00:49:30,080 --> 00:49:32,239 Speaker 1: still drive a custom van like that, I don't care 796 00:49:32,239 --> 00:49:35,000 Speaker 1: about the mileage. I want one of the Wizard on it. 797 00:49:35,600 --> 00:49:37,840 Speaker 1: I want one that's decked out like a studio apartment, 798 00:49:38,000 --> 00:49:40,719 Speaker 1: you know, but with windows so people don't think I'm 799 00:49:40,760 --> 00:49:43,160 Speaker 1: a serial killer. I want to torture rack in mind, 800 00:49:43,320 --> 00:49:47,680 Speaker 1: you want to torture wreck dude, We should make a convoy. Sorry. 801 00:49:47,760 --> 00:49:49,480 Speaker 1: That was then when I took taking it light a 802 00:49:49,520 --> 00:49:52,879 Speaker 1: step too far. That's what happens when keeping it light 803 00:49:53,280 --> 00:49:58,240 Speaker 1: goes awry. Uh So, here's someone who things would arrived 804 00:49:58,320 --> 00:50:02,759 Speaker 1: for this character. If you read about serial killers, then 805 00:50:02,760 --> 00:50:05,640 Speaker 1: you probably read a few years back about a killer 806 00:50:05,680 --> 00:50:09,440 Speaker 1: known as b t K, which stands for buying torture killed. 807 00:50:09,440 --> 00:50:15,279 Speaker 1: This is a self appointed nickname. Uh. This person was 808 00:50:15,400 --> 00:50:19,920 Speaker 1: actually named Dennis Radar and from nineteen seventy four to nine, 809 00:50:20,360 --> 00:50:25,080 Speaker 1: well from four to nineteen seventy nine, he had killed 810 00:50:25,120 --> 00:50:30,480 Speaker 1: ten people in total, collected items, totems, fetishes, relics, trophies, 811 00:50:30,520 --> 00:50:33,040 Speaker 1: I guess the best way to say it, from each 812 00:50:33,080 --> 00:50:36,360 Speaker 1: murder scene. And he wrote numerous letters taunting the police. 813 00:50:36,400 --> 00:50:40,360 Speaker 1: But then he underwent a dormant period. And here's the 814 00:50:40,400 --> 00:50:45,200 Speaker 1: weirdest part on Dennis Dennis's Radar's career as a serial killer. 815 00:50:46,600 --> 00:50:51,120 Speaker 1: If he had not been drawn back by apparently fame 816 00:50:51,120 --> 00:50:53,759 Speaker 1: and ego, then he would have been fine. And he 817 00:50:53,840 --> 00:50:58,080 Speaker 1: would have continued working at the church that he worked at, 818 00:50:58,480 --> 00:51:03,960 Speaker 1: and he something veterinarian's office, yeah uh, and just eventually 819 00:51:04,239 --> 00:51:07,919 Speaker 1: make a deathbed confession or be something. His family would 820 00:51:08,280 --> 00:51:10,319 Speaker 1: find all this stuff after his death. But he could 821 00:51:10,360 --> 00:51:13,719 Speaker 1: not resist writing another series of taunting letters about how 822 00:51:13,719 --> 00:51:16,400 Speaker 1: he fully planned to commit another murder. In two thousand 823 00:51:16,400 --> 00:51:20,239 Speaker 1: and four because he was inept, he sent correspondence that 824 00:51:20,360 --> 00:51:23,880 Speaker 1: was easy to trace. Uh. He actually at one point 825 00:51:23,880 --> 00:51:27,160 Speaker 1: asked law enforcement if it was possible for them to 826 00:51:27,440 --> 00:51:31,400 Speaker 1: trace him based on you know, sending uh like a 827 00:51:31,440 --> 00:51:36,040 Speaker 1: three point five disc. You know, everybody's younger in the crowd. Um. 828 00:51:36,080 --> 00:51:41,120 Speaker 1: If you look at the save button on your Microsoft 829 00:51:41,800 --> 00:51:45,399 Speaker 1: Word that's an image of those three point five discs, 830 00:51:45,440 --> 00:51:49,799 Speaker 1: which I think people will forget over time. But they said, yeah, 831 00:51:49,840 --> 00:51:52,640 Speaker 1: there's no way we can do that, and they totally did, 832 00:51:52,719 --> 00:51:54,239 Speaker 1: and they found the address and there was a matter 833 00:51:54,239 --> 00:51:56,880 Speaker 1: of time before he found him. He didn't fit a 834 00:51:56,880 --> 00:51:59,560 Speaker 1: lot of the supposed profiles and serially killers. That's why 835 00:51:59,600 --> 00:52:03,440 Speaker 1: he can't find them. He was a family man, and 836 00:52:03,480 --> 00:52:06,160 Speaker 1: it was a family man who had a lot of 837 00:52:06,160 --> 00:52:09,400 Speaker 1: internal issues. But he is locked up, is under the jail. 838 00:52:09,920 --> 00:52:12,040 Speaker 1: This is not the UK. They don't require a whole 839 00:52:12,040 --> 00:52:16,000 Speaker 1: life order. He is going to die in jail. And 840 00:52:16,000 --> 00:52:19,760 Speaker 1: then there were other people like the Grim Sleeper, Lonnie 841 00:52:19,880 --> 00:52:23,680 Speaker 1: David Franklin Jr. Believed to responsible for least ten murders 842 00:52:23,680 --> 00:52:26,880 Speaker 1: in an attempted murder in Los Angeles. Sounds like a 843 00:52:26,920 --> 00:52:30,439 Speaker 1: wrestling name, the Grim Sleeper. It really does really does, 844 00:52:30,560 --> 00:52:33,040 Speaker 1: like he teams up with the undertaker or something, and 845 00:52:33,080 --> 00:52:36,759 Speaker 1: he has a special hold. Yeah, that's his signature sleeper hold. 846 00:52:37,000 --> 00:52:39,279 Speaker 1: And now we can now we can see stuff like 847 00:52:39,320 --> 00:52:42,759 Speaker 1: that because he is also apprehended. He is also never 848 00:52:42,800 --> 00:52:45,600 Speaker 1: getting out of jail. The point we're making is that 849 00:52:46,640 --> 00:52:50,960 Speaker 1: these killers do get caught. This is not a bleak, 850 00:52:51,040 --> 00:52:55,920 Speaker 1: hopeless story in many cases, and with just the cases 851 00:52:55,960 --> 00:52:58,680 Speaker 1: we've looked at now, it provides us more questions than 852 00:52:58,719 --> 00:53:03,360 Speaker 1: it does answers. Right, So what happens to these folks, 853 00:53:03,440 --> 00:53:06,399 Speaker 1: the unapprehended ones both from part one and part two, Well, 854 00:53:06,440 --> 00:53:09,319 Speaker 1: we know that some of them are just taken out 855 00:53:09,800 --> 00:53:13,279 Speaker 1: because they're arrested for something else, and they're sitting in 856 00:53:13,320 --> 00:53:17,480 Speaker 1: a prison cell somewhere doing time for burglary or you know, 857 00:53:17,560 --> 00:53:21,440 Speaker 1: whatever other smaller crime they committed, or even maybe a 858 00:53:21,520 --> 00:53:26,680 Speaker 1: single murder or something. We also know that with technology 859 00:53:26,719 --> 00:53:30,359 Speaker 1: advancing the way it is for forensic science, it's more 860 00:53:30,440 --> 00:53:33,960 Speaker 1: difficult for these guys to hide somewhere and do what 861 00:53:34,080 --> 00:53:36,560 Speaker 1: the bt K killer did and just live with a 862 00:53:36,560 --> 00:53:42,120 Speaker 1: family somewhere else in the world. Eventually, if you messed 863 00:53:42,200 --> 00:53:45,040 Speaker 1: up one time committing a murder or one of these 864 00:53:45,120 --> 00:53:50,799 Speaker 1: hor blacks, you will probably get caught. And and you know, 865 00:53:50,920 --> 00:53:53,279 Speaker 1: a lot of these people because several of the things 866 00:53:53,320 --> 00:53:57,080 Speaker 1: we talked about, we're in the sixties and seventies. A 867 00:53:57,120 --> 00:54:00,359 Speaker 1: lot of them have died and will probably never be caught. 868 00:54:00,880 --> 00:54:03,880 Speaker 1: It's possible. Yeah, what about Zodiac, He's still out there. 869 00:54:04,719 --> 00:54:09,319 Speaker 1: If Zodiac is still out there, then is infirmed. Yeah, yeah, 870 00:54:09,719 --> 00:54:11,719 Speaker 1: then he might not even know who the killer is 871 00:54:12,200 --> 00:54:16,040 Speaker 1: at this point, because yeah, it's a scary thing. A 872 00:54:16,040 --> 00:54:17,680 Speaker 1: lot of what you're talking about reminds me of the 873 00:54:17,760 --> 00:54:20,520 Speaker 1: show The Keepers on Netflix. If you haven't seen it 874 00:54:20,960 --> 00:54:24,520 Speaker 1: and you like true crime, it's worth your time. Is 875 00:54:24,560 --> 00:54:28,319 Speaker 1: it a documentary or it is a documentary? If you 876 00:54:28,320 --> 00:54:32,040 Speaker 1: know this, this concept raises an interesting disturbing is a 877 00:54:32,080 --> 00:54:36,440 Speaker 1: better word of disturbing question? If someone's like that is discovered, 878 00:54:36,640 --> 00:54:40,000 Speaker 1: is it prosecuting the same person, Oh, someone with dementia 879 00:54:40,080 --> 00:54:42,920 Speaker 1: that doesn't even know anymore? Something like let's say someone 880 00:54:43,360 --> 00:54:46,920 Speaker 1: was convicted ironclad. We know they did it of several 881 00:54:47,000 --> 00:54:50,319 Speaker 1: murders in the nineteen sixties, but now they're in their 882 00:54:50,440 --> 00:54:56,239 Speaker 1: late eighties. And it's sad to say, but that that 883 00:54:56,239 --> 00:54:58,560 Speaker 1: it reminds me of what's going on with Bill Cosby. 884 00:54:58,719 --> 00:55:00,840 Speaker 1: You know, I'm not I'm not a the doctor. I 885 00:55:00,880 --> 00:55:03,120 Speaker 1: can't diagnose the man. But when you read before all 886 00:55:03,160 --> 00:55:04,960 Speaker 1: this came out and he was on some late night shows, 887 00:55:05,000 --> 00:55:10,240 Speaker 1: he did show signs of not being fully they're mentally 888 00:55:10,560 --> 00:55:14,880 Speaker 1: and you get the sense that he doesn't entirely comprehend 889 00:55:14,920 --> 00:55:18,759 Speaker 1: what's going on with all of the accusations. I don't know, 890 00:55:18,840 --> 00:55:22,759 Speaker 1: I mean, did he just having witnessed dementia firsthand? I 891 00:55:22,800 --> 00:55:25,279 Speaker 1: remember when I saw him on early on before all 892 00:55:25,280 --> 00:55:28,440 Speaker 1: this came out. Um, he was on one of the 893 00:55:28,520 --> 00:55:31,320 Speaker 1: late shows, and it was just kind of a little 894 00:55:31,320 --> 00:55:33,239 Speaker 1: bit sad because he just did not seem like he 895 00:55:33,360 --> 00:55:37,040 Speaker 1: quite understood what was going on, and he wasn't like himself. 896 00:55:37,200 --> 00:55:40,800 Speaker 1: So I'm wondering if that's a similar situation where anyone 897 00:55:40,840 --> 00:55:46,279 Speaker 1: who gets justice it's not going to be as satisfying, 898 00:55:46,320 --> 00:55:49,960 Speaker 1: perhaps because the person who did the crimes maybe is 899 00:55:50,000 --> 00:55:55,280 Speaker 1: not aware that what they've done anymore. Those philosophical areas 900 00:55:55,360 --> 00:55:59,640 Speaker 1: where is punishing the body of the thing the person 901 00:55:59,760 --> 00:56:03,560 Speaker 1: that did these things worth it even if it can't 902 00:56:03,560 --> 00:56:08,000 Speaker 1: comprehend well, I would also say, you know, one of 903 00:56:08,040 --> 00:56:11,080 Speaker 1: the one of the at the very least equally crucial 904 00:56:11,080 --> 00:56:16,360 Speaker 1: factors here is closure is absolutely happened, right And speaking 905 00:56:16,400 --> 00:56:22,040 Speaker 1: of closure, we do have conclusions. So yes, unapprehended serial 906 00:56:22,120 --> 00:56:25,200 Speaker 1: killers are out there, according to FBI estimates, fifty to 907 00:56:25,400 --> 00:56:28,759 Speaker 1: three d in the U s alone. Right now, that's 908 00:56:28,800 --> 00:56:32,239 Speaker 1: a hell of a margin. But that also goes into 909 00:56:32,600 --> 00:56:34,960 Speaker 1: you know, the definitions of a serial is the famous 910 00:56:35,040 --> 00:56:38,880 Speaker 1: hitman hitman the iceman that qualifies a serial killer because 911 00:56:38,880 --> 00:56:43,000 Speaker 1: it was his profession, Right, where do we draw the line? Luckily, 912 00:56:43,680 --> 00:56:48,400 Speaker 1: these sorts of killers, despite the wild estimates, the hyperbole sensationalism, 913 00:56:48,480 --> 00:56:51,600 Speaker 1: are extremely rare. But there are real life monsters and 914 00:56:51,600 --> 00:56:54,719 Speaker 1: in the vast majority of cases you will not know 915 00:56:55,680 --> 00:56:58,920 Speaker 1: if you walk by one on the street. You might 916 00:56:59,000 --> 00:57:01,680 Speaker 1: have you know, it's a very real thing that people report. 917 00:57:02,120 --> 00:57:07,440 Speaker 1: People believe in hunches, right, intuitions, uh spider's senses. But 918 00:57:07,560 --> 00:57:11,920 Speaker 1: even that, and that is not not proven to uh 919 00:57:12,120 --> 00:57:14,399 Speaker 1: to work, because then we would just have people who 920 00:57:14,400 --> 00:57:17,960 Speaker 1: are detecting these human monsters read it would be amazing 921 00:57:18,000 --> 00:57:20,240 Speaker 1: at it. Yeah, and and and we've got to be 922 00:57:20,280 --> 00:57:23,280 Speaker 1: fair to the jerks of the world. Just being a 923 00:57:23,360 --> 00:57:26,320 Speaker 1: jerk doesn't mean that someone is a murderer. Or a 924 00:57:26,440 --> 00:57:30,480 Speaker 1: danger to society. We cannot stress how important that is. However, 925 00:57:31,000 --> 00:57:33,600 Speaker 1: if you do know of or if you do know 926 00:57:33,640 --> 00:57:37,960 Speaker 1: of someone that you suspect might be actively doing something, 927 00:57:39,560 --> 00:57:44,040 Speaker 1: you can and should report those suspicions. And this, you know, 928 00:57:44,160 --> 00:57:48,520 Speaker 1: this is something that that sounds very televised, right. It 929 00:57:48,600 --> 00:57:54,360 Speaker 1: sounds like the script for some some true crime drama, right, 930 00:57:54,760 --> 00:57:58,120 Speaker 1: some law and order type thing. But what would you do? 931 00:57:58,920 --> 00:58:03,560 Speaker 1: What would you do if your neighbor who was not 932 00:58:03,600 --> 00:58:09,560 Speaker 1: an unpleasant person one day went on vacation quote unquote, 933 00:58:09,760 --> 00:58:13,520 Speaker 1: and then you saw his car and it was suspicious activity, 934 00:58:14,000 --> 00:58:18,400 Speaker 1: and then you read about people disappearing. You know, I 935 00:58:18,400 --> 00:58:22,560 Speaker 1: know I've been afraid to say anything. All right, I 936 00:58:22,600 --> 00:58:25,520 Speaker 1: told you I'm gonna move, Okay, just be cool. But 937 00:58:25,680 --> 00:58:29,960 Speaker 1: the jokes aside, ladies and gentlemen. The the truth of 938 00:58:29,960 --> 00:58:32,080 Speaker 1: the matter is that there's a very thin line between 939 00:58:32,120 --> 00:58:38,120 Speaker 1: paranoia and actual evidence in reporting it. Because we've all 940 00:58:38,280 --> 00:58:40,800 Speaker 1: we've all seen this before when there is an active, 941 00:58:40,880 --> 00:58:44,440 Speaker 1: high profile serial killer, like in that movie was Summer 942 00:58:44,480 --> 00:58:48,400 Speaker 1: of Sam about Sam Berkowitz. Um in that in that film, 943 00:58:48,640 --> 00:58:50,800 Speaker 1: one of the things that happened was that law enforcement 944 00:58:51,120 --> 00:58:54,760 Speaker 1: and just like in Zodiac cases was inundated with false reports. 945 00:58:54,960 --> 00:58:59,720 Speaker 1: Some people just wanted attention, So it's tough. But it 946 00:58:59,840 --> 00:59:02,920 Speaker 1: is true that with all the personal data being shared 947 00:59:03,000 --> 00:59:07,320 Speaker 1: between whomever you pay your phone bill too, wherever you 948 00:59:07,360 --> 00:59:11,640 Speaker 1: get your driver's license, wherever you pay your taxes, and everybody, 949 00:59:11,800 --> 00:59:15,600 Speaker 1: when whatever social media you know you'd use, it seems 950 00:59:15,640 --> 00:59:18,840 Speaker 1: more and more likely that previous on previously unidentified serial 951 00:59:18,920 --> 00:59:21,960 Speaker 1: killers could eventually become a thing of the past. These 952 00:59:21,960 --> 00:59:24,800 Speaker 1: aren't pioneer days where you could just go through the 953 00:59:24,960 --> 00:59:29,320 Speaker 1: territories killing as you please. However, we can't forget that 954 00:59:29,440 --> 00:59:32,760 Speaker 1: in some cases these killers function and positions of power, 955 00:59:33,080 --> 00:59:37,200 Speaker 1: and they're able to influence the mechanisms meant to apprehend them, like, uh, 956 00:59:37,880 --> 00:59:41,920 Speaker 1: like the police officer that Noel mentioned. Yeah, that is 957 00:59:42,000 --> 00:59:47,360 Speaker 1: a huge point here that terrifies me, especially when there 958 00:59:47,360 --> 00:59:51,040 Speaker 1: are multiple people in power that are working together. And 959 00:59:51,040 --> 00:59:53,800 Speaker 1: one thing that Yeah, one thing that startles me too 960 00:59:53,880 --> 00:59:58,680 Speaker 1: is how often a string of serial murders might not 961 00:59:58,800 --> 01:00:02,760 Speaker 1: get reported outside of local news. Is that cooperation or 962 01:00:02,760 --> 01:00:04,880 Speaker 1: is that just police with the best of intentions trying 963 01:00:04,880 --> 01:00:08,800 Speaker 1: to prevent panic. Yeah, and something just isn't newsworthy enough 964 01:00:08,840 --> 01:00:11,880 Speaker 1: to be run on a you know, from another major source, 965 01:00:12,520 --> 01:00:14,840 Speaker 1: and how do you decide that? Does it go down 966 01:00:14,880 --> 01:00:19,520 Speaker 1: to the name. Did you guys see that they're remaking 967 01:00:19,560 --> 01:00:23,480 Speaker 1: Maniac Cop? What is that? You never seen Maniac Cop? 968 01:00:23,560 --> 01:00:25,640 Speaker 1: It's like a like a franchise from the eighties where 969 01:00:26,240 --> 01:00:31,640 Speaker 1: the murderer is a cop. He's the maniac cop like Vigilante. No, no, no, 970 01:00:31,680 --> 01:00:36,680 Speaker 1: He's just a maniac. He's a unhinged lunatic um with 971 01:00:36,800 --> 01:00:42,520 Speaker 1: some Jason Vorhees esque uh supernatural abilities. Nicholas Winding Reffin 972 01:00:42,560 --> 01:00:46,440 Speaker 1: who did the much malign Neon Demon, which I quite enjoyed, 973 01:00:46,680 --> 01:00:50,720 Speaker 1: and uh Drive and um, you know Valhalla Rising and 974 01:00:50,720 --> 01:00:52,960 Speaker 1: Bronson and all that. He's he seems to be going 975 01:00:53,000 --> 01:00:55,800 Speaker 1: down the schlocky road a little further these days, and 976 01:00:55,880 --> 01:00:58,960 Speaker 1: this is definitely no exception. So I'm looking forward to that. 977 01:00:59,280 --> 01:01:03,120 Speaker 1: You guys want to shoutouts, I think it's time chat 978 01:01:03,120 --> 01:01:09,360 Speaker 1: at corners. Our first shout out goes out to Shannon, 979 01:01:09,800 --> 01:01:13,080 Speaker 1: who says, hey, guys, on the topic of UFOs, forgive 980 01:01:13,160 --> 01:01:15,600 Speaker 1: me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe you've covered 981 01:01:15,640 --> 01:01:19,320 Speaker 1: the cash Landrum incident. I only just heard about it 982 01:01:19,360 --> 01:01:22,680 Speaker 1: myself today, and I think you'd find it fascinating. Well, 983 01:01:22,680 --> 01:01:24,880 Speaker 1: thank you so much, Shannon. I'd have never heard of this. Ben, 984 01:01:24,880 --> 01:01:27,240 Speaker 1: have you heard of this? Yeah? Yeah, this is one 985 01:01:27,280 --> 01:01:30,360 Speaker 1: of the only uf Well, this is one of very 986 01:01:30,400 --> 01:01:35,360 Speaker 1: few UFO cases that actually resulted in litigation in the 987 01:01:35,520 --> 01:01:39,240 Speaker 1: nineties in the US, people insisted that they not only 988 01:01:39,240 --> 01:01:42,920 Speaker 1: saw something multiple witnesses, but that it damaged their health. 989 01:01:43,440 --> 01:01:49,080 Speaker 1: What where was this? So this occurred in Dayton, Texas. 990 01:01:49,200 --> 01:01:51,360 Speaker 1: I think that's a I think that's a really interesting 991 01:01:52,200 --> 01:01:55,760 Speaker 1: topic for us to delve into because we do have 992 01:01:55,840 --> 01:02:01,760 Speaker 1: a pretty solid, solid, solid mass of court cases. So 993 01:02:01,920 --> 01:02:03,680 Speaker 1: thank you so much for writing Inshin And that's an 994 01:02:03,720 --> 01:02:09,720 Speaker 1: excellent suggestion. Who's next? Whale Next? We have a shout 995 01:02:09,800 --> 01:02:14,600 Speaker 1: out for Chiara says hey, Matt and Ben and Nol. 996 01:02:15,120 --> 01:02:16,960 Speaker 1: Actually Nol's not on here, but that's okay. I don't 997 01:02:16,960 --> 01:02:20,080 Speaker 1: hold it against you. Kiara, who hails from Texas. Um 998 01:02:20,240 --> 01:02:22,200 Speaker 1: She says, I am writing this. Who bring to your 999 01:02:22,240 --> 01:02:26,040 Speaker 1: attention the recent computer attack nicknamed ransomware. I think it 1000 01:02:26,120 --> 01:02:29,280 Speaker 1: was actually called want to Cry And ransomware is the 1001 01:02:29,320 --> 01:02:32,520 Speaker 1: type of the type of is where that holds your 1002 01:02:32,880 --> 01:02:35,200 Speaker 1: data hostage and you have to pay out in bitcoin. 1003 01:02:35,240 --> 01:02:37,920 Speaker 1: In order to get it back. UM. Anyway, as it 1004 01:02:38,000 --> 01:02:40,600 Speaker 1: is sufficiently frightening and seems to have come out of 1005 01:02:40,640 --> 01:02:43,800 Speaker 1: absolutely nowhere, there's no doubt that you've already caught wind 1006 01:02:43,800 --> 01:02:45,320 Speaker 1: of it, but I think it couldn't hurt to provide 1007 01:02:45,320 --> 01:02:47,800 Speaker 1: you a request. The new ransomware virus essentially what I 1008 01:02:47,840 --> 01:02:50,840 Speaker 1: would call and evil blue screen computer malware virus that's 1009 01:02:50,840 --> 01:02:54,760 Speaker 1: been crippling average computer users, but particularly companies and corporations 1010 01:02:54,960 --> 01:02:57,720 Speaker 1: by overtaking computer systems and blocking users access to their 1011 01:02:57,760 --> 01:03:00,640 Speaker 1: files and search engines, essentially acting in the way a 1012 01:03:00,680 --> 01:03:05,400 Speaker 1: blue screen would, rendering the computer useless UM being impassable 1013 01:03:05,440 --> 01:03:08,600 Speaker 1: unless the victim of the virus pays three bitcoins to 1014 01:03:08,600 --> 01:03:12,600 Speaker 1: remove it the equivalent of around seven thirty six thousand 1015 01:03:12,920 --> 01:03:18,600 Speaker 1: dollars American So explanation, the everyday blue screen, and formally 1016 01:03:18,640 --> 01:03:21,080 Speaker 1: referred to as the blue screen of death, is a 1017 01:03:21,080 --> 01:03:23,520 Speaker 1: protection fall initiated by Windows in the case that the 1018 01:03:23,520 --> 01:03:27,080 Speaker 1: operating system collapses. UM. What the virus does essentially mimics 1019 01:03:27,120 --> 01:03:29,600 Speaker 1: that function with one key difference. It sees his access 1020 01:03:29,680 --> 01:03:32,600 Speaker 1: to every file and every computer function until the ransom 1021 01:03:32,680 --> 01:03:35,760 Speaker 1: is paid. Yikes. Uh. The current theory is that at 1022 01:03:35,840 --> 01:03:38,680 Speaker 1: least one of the perpetrators behind this is a former 1023 01:03:38,720 --> 01:03:41,880 Speaker 1: Windows employee, and I know that Windows actually patched this. 1024 01:03:42,560 --> 01:03:44,320 Speaker 1: They caught it pretty early and so a lot of 1025 01:03:44,360 --> 01:03:47,200 Speaker 1: people were spared it, but it definitely did rereak some 1026 01:03:47,320 --> 01:03:50,320 Speaker 1: havoc um. She says, she's anxious to hear what we 1027 01:03:50,360 --> 01:03:52,520 Speaker 1: have to say about it, and would also like to 1028 01:03:52,560 --> 01:03:56,920 Speaker 1: give condolences to all the hospitals, colleges, businesses, banks, railway 1029 01:03:56,960 --> 01:03:59,280 Speaker 1: systems and absolutely everyone who is victim of this virus 1030 01:03:59,320 --> 01:04:02,840 Speaker 1: in any way. It can't be easy. I agreed, that's 1031 01:04:02,560 --> 01:04:06,760 Speaker 1: a pretty brutal. One really interesting thing here to me 1032 01:04:06,840 --> 01:04:09,800 Speaker 1: is that if you're going to be paid in bitcoins 1033 01:04:09,800 --> 01:04:13,720 Speaker 1: for ransomware like this, even though it's a cryptocurrency and 1034 01:04:13,800 --> 01:04:17,640 Speaker 1: it's protected in a lot of ways, it is trackable. 1035 01:04:18,040 --> 01:04:21,760 Speaker 1: So at any point, like they know, investigators know exactly 1036 01:04:22,080 --> 01:04:24,680 Speaker 1: what accounts the bitcoins will be paid to, and they 1037 01:04:24,680 --> 01:04:28,160 Speaker 1: can monitor them in real time, and as soon as 1038 01:04:28,160 --> 01:04:31,160 Speaker 1: someone tries to take those bitcoins out and transfer them 1039 01:04:31,200 --> 01:04:34,400 Speaker 1: into cash in some way or some usable form of currency, 1040 01:04:34,760 --> 01:04:37,200 Speaker 1: you're going to know exactly where it went. So I 1041 01:04:37,240 --> 01:04:39,320 Speaker 1: don't I don't know that, I don't understand the logic 1042 01:04:39,360 --> 01:04:41,880 Speaker 1: behind it. But maybe there's a there's like a key 1043 01:04:41,880 --> 01:04:43,800 Speaker 1: there that I'm missing. I mean, maybe there's some sort 1044 01:04:43,840 --> 01:04:47,520 Speaker 1: of like VPN ESQ way of redirecting, you know, the 1045 01:04:47,920 --> 01:04:51,960 Speaker 1: digital trail, or maybe there is a yeah, there's a 1046 01:04:52,000 --> 01:04:56,680 Speaker 1: secrecy parameter. I I think, uh, I think your concept 1047 01:04:56,760 --> 01:05:00,080 Speaker 1: of this being to some degree and inside job, and 1048 01:05:00,160 --> 01:05:04,080 Speaker 1: that the perpetrator may have used something they learned internally 1049 01:05:04,200 --> 01:05:07,000 Speaker 1: to wreak this havoc. I think that's fascinating. I'd like 1050 01:05:07,080 --> 01:05:11,040 Speaker 1: to delve into it. I'm also tempted to agree that 1051 01:05:11,800 --> 01:05:14,040 Speaker 1: there would be there would have to be a way 1052 01:05:14,160 --> 01:05:19,000 Speaker 1: for the money to be laundered somehow, otherwise no one 1053 01:05:19,080 --> 01:05:22,680 Speaker 1: would ask for that currency. And a cryptocurrency has several 1054 01:05:22,720 --> 01:05:27,520 Speaker 1: advantages over more orthodox or established forms of currency, so 1055 01:05:27,640 --> 01:05:30,720 Speaker 1: that'd be a good one to dive into. And uh, 1056 01:05:30,880 --> 01:05:33,640 Speaker 1: you know, I think it speaks very highly to KR's 1057 01:05:33,720 --> 01:05:37,520 Speaker 1: character that she took the time to give her condolences 1058 01:05:37,560 --> 01:05:41,760 Speaker 1: to the organizations and individuals affected by this, So thank 1059 01:05:41,800 --> 01:05:44,520 Speaker 1: you for writing in. Our final shout out of the 1060 01:05:44,640 --> 01:05:48,240 Speaker 1: date comes from Trent, and Trent says, Hello, guys, a 1061 01:05:48,320 --> 01:05:50,880 Speaker 1: top Oh this was I thought this is pretty interesting one. 1062 01:05:51,240 --> 01:05:54,240 Speaker 1: He didn't say that. That's me. Hello guys. The topic 1063 01:05:54,280 --> 01:05:56,600 Speaker 1: I thought of when recently listening to your podcast on 1064 01:05:56,640 --> 01:05:59,680 Speaker 1: the placebo effect. It was stated in the podcast that 1065 01:05:59,800 --> 01:06:03,720 Speaker 1: a severe burn victim would not benefit from a placebo. 1066 01:06:03,800 --> 01:06:06,400 Speaker 1: I would have to disagree. I've heard all my life 1067 01:06:06,440 --> 01:06:08,800 Speaker 1: of the power of someone talking the fire out of 1068 01:06:08,800 --> 01:06:11,840 Speaker 1: a burn. Manly used this as a pain relief. It 1069 01:06:11,920 --> 01:06:14,520 Speaker 1: is a secret that can only be passed from man 1070 01:06:14,560 --> 01:06:17,200 Speaker 1: to woman or woman to man. The two cannot be 1071 01:06:17,200 --> 01:06:20,880 Speaker 1: blood related. Check out info into the fox Fire books. 1072 01:06:21,080 --> 01:06:23,560 Speaker 1: I was told that my great grandfather was able to 1073 01:06:23,600 --> 01:06:25,960 Speaker 1: save a child at a hospital that had been burned 1074 01:06:26,000 --> 01:06:28,680 Speaker 1: over a large part of his body. This may not 1075 01:06:28,880 --> 01:06:31,440 Speaker 1: be a placebo in the original context, but it is 1076 01:06:31,480 --> 01:06:34,280 Speaker 1: a case of how powerful the mind can be. Good luck. 1077 01:06:35,160 --> 01:06:38,560 Speaker 1: So from you know as an armshare folklore's this is fascinating. 1078 01:06:38,600 --> 01:06:41,960 Speaker 1: The idea of tulking the fire out of a burn. 1079 01:06:42,760 --> 01:06:45,160 Speaker 1: I read a lot, maybe too much, and I have 1080 01:06:45,280 --> 01:06:49,440 Speaker 1: not read about this. There is a fox Fire folklore 1081 01:06:50,400 --> 01:06:53,600 Speaker 1: series and perhaps it is mentioned in there, in which 1082 01:06:53,640 --> 01:06:56,479 Speaker 1: case I am going to return to it. Um. Thank 1083 01:06:56,520 --> 01:06:59,080 Speaker 1: you so much, Trenth. These are all excellent suggestions and 1084 01:06:59,160 --> 01:07:03,400 Speaker 1: we appreciate your time. So thanks to Kiara, Shannon and Trent. 1085 01:07:03,720 --> 01:07:10,400 Speaker 1: And this concludes ours but not our show. As a 1086 01:07:10,400 --> 01:07:12,760 Speaker 1: matter of fact, the most important part of the show 1087 01:07:12,960 --> 01:07:16,520 Speaker 1: is occurring as soon as this recording ends. That's your 1088 01:07:16,600 --> 01:07:19,120 Speaker 1: part right to us. Let us know what you think. 1089 01:07:19,400 --> 01:07:23,480 Speaker 1: Do you believe that you have encountered something like an 1090 01:07:23,480 --> 01:07:26,280 Speaker 1: active serial killer? Is there a story in your neck 1091 01:07:26,280 --> 01:07:29,080 Speaker 1: of the Global Woods that has not been reported as 1092 01:07:29,120 --> 01:07:31,320 Speaker 1: we see a lot of serial killer reporting tends to 1093 01:07:31,320 --> 01:07:34,160 Speaker 1: focus here on the United States. Let us know. You 1094 01:07:34,160 --> 01:07:37,440 Speaker 1: can find us on Instagram, Facebook, and Twitter, where we 1095 01:07:37,480 --> 01:07:40,160 Speaker 1: are some variation of conspiracy stuff. And if you don't 1096 01:07:40,200 --> 01:07:41,880 Speaker 1: want to do any of that stuff and you want 1097 01:07:41,880 --> 01:07:45,280 Speaker 1: to hide away from the social media, you can send 1098 01:07:45,360 --> 01:07:50,040 Speaker 1: us a discreet email. We are conspiracy and how stuff works. 1099 01:07:50,160 --> 01:08:02,480 Speaker 1: Doc three