1
00:00:16,640 --> 00:00:21,080
Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome my favorite murder. That's Georgia Hartstar, that's

2
00:00:21,160 --> 00:00:30,760
Speaker 1: Karen Kilgariff, and this is I just had Kafye, So

3
00:00:30,920 --> 00:00:34,800
Speaker 1: I'm ready to fucking go. We are about to start

4
00:00:34,840 --> 00:00:37,640
Speaker 1: our Senior Honor Choir and you are going to be

5
00:00:37,800 --> 00:00:42,120
Speaker 1: the subject of it. Happy holidays everyone. Are you having

6
00:00:42,200 --> 00:00:44,960
Speaker 1: fun or are you stuck at the house you grew

7
00:00:45,040 --> 00:00:47,120
Speaker 1: up in with the people you grew up with? What

8
00:00:47,280 --> 00:00:50,400
Speaker 1: kind of quilt is on you right now? Is it?

9
00:00:50,600 --> 00:00:52,320
Speaker 1: Did your great aunt make it for you? Has it

10
00:00:52,360 --> 00:00:56,200
Speaker 1: ever been washed? Is it the cat's favorite quill because

11
00:00:56,200 --> 00:00:58,600
Speaker 1: it's not like cat py? Yeah, yes it does. That

12
00:00:58,680 --> 00:00:59,480
Speaker 1: means it's Christmas.

13
00:00:59,520 --> 00:01:01,080
Speaker 2: You ever have when someone comes over and they like

14
00:01:01,120 --> 00:01:02,480
Speaker 2: cuddle up with a pillow and you don't want to

15
00:01:02,480 --> 00:01:03,200
Speaker 2: say to them.

16
00:01:03,000 --> 00:01:07,280
Speaker 1: Like, that's the dog's pillow. Does a rabbit? Oh my god?

17
00:01:07,360 --> 00:01:09,240
Speaker 1: That HAPs all the time, you know, it's funny. Is

18
00:01:09,280 --> 00:01:11,120
Speaker 1: I just hope no one ever goes and sits down

19
00:01:11,120 --> 00:01:14,560
Speaker 1: on my couch like independently, because I'm like, you're not right.

20
00:01:14,959 --> 00:01:16,880
Speaker 1: You're just gonna get it essentially, is what you're saying

21
00:01:17,080 --> 00:01:19,920
Speaker 1: all over yourself. I mean you can like that's exactly

22
00:01:19,959 --> 00:01:22,840
Speaker 1: where she puts her butthole. But I can't tell you

23
00:01:22,920 --> 00:01:26,000
Speaker 1: that now because you're putting your butthole there. Stop putting

24
00:01:26,000 --> 00:01:32,600
Speaker 1: your butthole on my dogs. Jesus Christ. That's the theme

25
00:01:33,319 --> 00:01:37,440
Speaker 1: for this holiday season. Amen, stop it.

26
00:01:37,520 --> 00:01:40,760
Speaker 2: Okay, we do have Speaking of holiday season, we like

27
00:01:40,800 --> 00:01:42,280
Speaker 2: ask people how they were giving back.

28
00:01:42,480 --> 00:01:44,120
Speaker 1: Oh, and you've got some anecdotes.

29
00:01:44,160 --> 00:01:47,240
Speaker 2: I do, because we're doing our December donation thing, and

30
00:01:47,280 --> 00:01:49,720
Speaker 2: I have a funny one if you want to hear it.

31
00:01:49,880 --> 00:01:51,440
Speaker 1: Yes, please, I'm giving.

32
00:01:51,240 --> 00:01:53,640
Speaker 2: Back this season a whole lot of Catholic daughter shit.

33
00:01:54,760 --> 00:01:57,080
Speaker 2: I usually try to do my holiday giving to strangers,

34
00:01:57,080 --> 00:01:59,560
Speaker 2: folks with deep knees I've never faced. But this year

35
00:01:59,640 --> 00:02:01,840
Speaker 2: I find those closest to me need a hand in

36
00:02:01,880 --> 00:02:05,240
Speaker 2: ways only someone close is really equipped for. I'm the

37
00:02:05,360 --> 00:02:08,359
Speaker 2: never married, childless adult daughter in my family, and we're

38
00:02:08,400 --> 00:02:10,760
Speaker 2: all entering the holiday season for the first time without

39
00:02:10,760 --> 00:02:13,600
Speaker 2: my dad, who died just after New Year's.

40
00:02:13,400 --> 00:02:15,080
Speaker 1: Twenty twenty five. Sorry.

41
00:02:15,120 --> 00:02:17,920
Speaker 2: My mom's eighty, frail and alone for the first time

42
00:02:17,960 --> 00:02:21,800
Speaker 2: since a one year period in the early seventies between

43
00:02:21,840 --> 00:02:25,120
Speaker 2: her leaving the covent and meeting event between leaving the

44
00:02:25,200 --> 00:02:28,360
Speaker 2: convent and meeting my dad on a beach.

45
00:02:28,080 --> 00:02:28,800
Speaker 1: In New Jersey.

46
00:02:29,400 --> 00:02:31,240
Speaker 2: Can we just leave in Covet because I want her

47
00:02:31,240 --> 00:02:34,760
Speaker 2: to dad, But actually, with a Satan worshiper, she.

48
00:02:34,840 --> 00:02:38,360
Speaker 1: Covets that story. Okay, So the nun left the convent,

49
00:02:38,480 --> 00:02:41,160
Speaker 1: went to the beach and picked up a man. Yeah,

50
00:02:41,480 --> 00:02:44,320
Speaker 1: I love it, and never left his side. No, my

51
00:02:44,400 --> 00:02:46,720
Speaker 1: sister has a year's long immune condition that can make

52
00:02:46,840 --> 00:02:49,640
Speaker 1: chasing after her grammar school aged little boys a real

53
00:02:49,760 --> 00:02:53,520
Speaker 1: uphill climb. So my spring, summer and holiday giving isn't

54
00:02:53,520 --> 00:02:55,880
Speaker 1: shits at a food bank or checks to charities. It's

55
00:02:55,960 --> 00:02:58,760
Speaker 1: lugging in the cat litter for mom's pets, sorting her

56
00:02:58,760 --> 00:03:01,760
Speaker 1: recyclables every week, joining her for an occasional menthol light

57
00:03:02,160 --> 00:03:04,440
Speaker 1: on kitchen stools by the window. Oh you watch Will

58
00:03:04,480 --> 00:03:09,280
Speaker 1: of Fortune? Oh that is the dream? Yeah. Or figure

59
00:03:09,320 --> 00:03:10,359
Speaker 1: skating competitions.

60
00:03:10,600 --> 00:03:13,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's listening to my nephew's bitch about the nature

61
00:03:13,560 --> 00:03:16,000
Speaker 2: walks I march them on. Let my sister nap in

62
00:03:16,040 --> 00:03:20,679
Speaker 2: the afternoon, and my stumbling through impenetrably complex Pokemon battles

63
00:03:20,680 --> 00:03:23,639
Speaker 2: so she can go out and get a massage. Yeah,

64
00:03:23,720 --> 00:03:25,799
Speaker 2: I can mope a little like I'm the Cinderella and

65
00:03:25,880 --> 00:03:27,840
Speaker 2: all this but your question about how we're all getting

66
00:03:27,880 --> 00:03:30,200
Speaker 2: back allows me to make the case I may actually

67
00:03:30,240 --> 00:03:32,560
Speaker 2: be more like a luminous angel or a tinker bell

68
00:03:32,639 --> 00:03:34,960
Speaker 2: in all of this. That's right, at least that's how

69
00:03:35,000 --> 00:03:37,720
Speaker 2: I'll think about it next time I kneeled down scooping

70
00:03:37,720 --> 00:03:41,640
Speaker 2: a cat box for someone I love, E in Oregon. E,

71
00:03:42,120 --> 00:03:44,800
Speaker 2: what a beautiful thank you for sending that in and

72
00:03:44,800 --> 00:03:45,960
Speaker 2: what a beautiful sentiment.

73
00:03:46,200 --> 00:03:49,400
Speaker 1: And because that is everything to the people you love

74
00:03:49,440 --> 00:03:51,760
Speaker 1: the most, So what a donation to give.

75
00:03:51,920 --> 00:03:53,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's always something you could do, even if you

76
00:03:54,000 --> 00:03:55,160
Speaker 2: don't think you have the means.

77
00:03:55,560 --> 00:03:58,880
Speaker 1: Yeah. For example, when I'm home with my father over

78
00:03:58,920 --> 00:04:03,200
Speaker 1: the holidays and I get myself a coffee from usually

79
00:04:03,240 --> 00:04:06,600
Speaker 1: Pete's Coffee downtown, have it delivered to the house because

80
00:04:06,600 --> 00:04:10,400
Speaker 1: it's seven in the morning, I'll get him a lemon loaf. Oh, Karen,

81
00:04:10,640 --> 00:04:13,200
Speaker 1: I get him a lemon loaf. I won't make him

82
00:04:13,200 --> 00:04:15,960
Speaker 1: get his own just for Christmas, for the whole year,

83
00:04:16,480 --> 00:04:18,760
Speaker 1: just because, yeah, okay, because you don't. You don't want

84
00:04:18,760 --> 00:04:22,360
Speaker 1: to spoil him, Like, calm down, calm down to Jim, Dad,

85
00:04:22,680 --> 00:04:25,200
Speaker 1: that's your lemon loaf. So I don't know what else

86
00:04:25,240 --> 00:04:29,240
Speaker 1: you want from me. Did I tell you that? Did

87
00:04:29,279 --> 00:04:32,039
Speaker 1: I tell you on this podcast? Really? The only time

88
00:04:32,080 --> 00:04:35,320
Speaker 1: that counts that when I came home from Thanksgiving. When

89
00:04:35,320 --> 00:04:37,040
Speaker 1: I drove home it was twelve hours in the car,

90
00:04:37,120 --> 00:04:38,040
Speaker 1: he did. We talked about it.

91
00:04:38,120 --> 00:04:40,919
Speaker 2: God damn, I talked about it with event. It's like

92
00:04:40,920 --> 00:04:43,880
Speaker 2: it was so hard to hear, so we like we

93
00:04:43,960 --> 00:04:44,480
Speaker 2: discussed it.

94
00:04:44,560 --> 00:04:47,440
Speaker 1: I drove back down and then back up. No, I know,

95
00:04:47,839 --> 00:04:50,120
Speaker 1: I just still can't get over it. But also, nothing

96
00:04:50,120 --> 00:04:52,680
Speaker 1: else has happened to me since that, since that time.

97
00:04:52,920 --> 00:04:55,719
Speaker 1: I really surely that's a good segue.

98
00:04:55,800 --> 00:04:58,240
Speaker 2: I have a podcast in case you're driving twelve hours,

99
00:04:58,240 --> 00:05:01,000
Speaker 2: Oh perfect, or you want to leave your life for

100
00:05:01,040 --> 00:05:02,080
Speaker 2: a minute in your head.

101
00:05:02,520 --> 00:05:04,760
Speaker 1: I binge this podcast in twenty six hours.

102
00:05:04,800 --> 00:05:08,599
Speaker 2: It's ten episodes, and I binge it within a little

103
00:05:08,600 --> 00:05:10,920
Speaker 2: over a day because it was so fucking good.

104
00:05:11,000 --> 00:05:12,640
Speaker 1: Okay, it's called Beth's Dead.

105
00:05:12,760 --> 00:05:16,400
Speaker 2: So my friend Elizabeth Lame, she's been a podcaster since

106
00:05:16,440 --> 00:05:18,960
Speaker 2: twenty ten, so she's like OGI has always done it

107
00:05:19,200 --> 00:05:22,400
Speaker 2: with her husband, Andy Rosen. She's the sweetest person. And

108
00:05:22,440 --> 00:05:27,200
Speaker 2: they stopped podcasting suddenly out of nowhere because they had

109
00:05:27,200 --> 00:05:31,440
Speaker 2: a really awful experience with a listener oh no, And

110
00:05:31,480 --> 00:05:35,359
Speaker 2: so they told their friend Monica Padman from Armchair Expert

111
00:05:35,440 --> 00:05:38,800
Speaker 2: about it, and Monica, as podcasters do, said let's make

112
00:05:38,800 --> 00:05:42,000
Speaker 2: a podcast about it. Oh so it's ten episodes called

113
00:05:42,080 --> 00:05:46,680
Speaker 2: Beth's Dead about they had to quit podcasting because they

114
00:05:46,680 --> 00:05:49,360
Speaker 2: were so afraid for their lives. But the whole podcast,

115
00:05:49,560 --> 00:05:52,760
Speaker 2: it's almost like they're opening it back up and looking

116
00:05:52,800 --> 00:05:55,039
Speaker 2: into it, and Monica's kind of leading them along the way,

117
00:05:55,160 --> 00:05:58,159
Speaker 2: like find out what happened. It does not end the

118
00:05:58,160 --> 00:06:00,240
Speaker 2: way you think it's going to end. It's actually kind

119
00:06:00,240 --> 00:06:03,880
Speaker 2: of heartwarming. Well so, yeah, I mean, I don't want

120
00:06:03,920 --> 00:06:06,760
Speaker 2: to spoil it, but I'll use the term catfishing and

121
00:06:06,760 --> 00:06:08,720
Speaker 2: I'll just throw it out there because I know you

122
00:06:08,800 --> 00:06:10,599
Speaker 2: love a good cat fishing story.

123
00:06:10,640 --> 00:06:13,279
Speaker 1: I mean, I think it's from being too old to

124
00:06:13,400 --> 00:06:16,279
Speaker 1: be on like the apps and really a part of

125
00:06:16,400 --> 00:06:19,600
Speaker 1: the real social part of the Internet. Do you have

126
00:06:19,680 --> 00:06:23,520
Speaker 1: fomo of being catfished a little bit? I just never.

127
00:06:23,680 --> 00:06:27,960
Speaker 1: I wasn't picked even to be catfished. They didn't know

128
00:06:28,000 --> 00:06:29,920
Speaker 1: how to get a hold of me. Me girl, when

129
00:06:29,920 --> 00:06:33,120
Speaker 1: it comes to catfishing. I really am wait, I'm trying

130
00:06:33,120 --> 00:06:35,440
Speaker 1: to Okay, I'm following that now. Okay, that's dead. I

131
00:06:35,480 --> 00:06:38,839
Speaker 1: love it. You just can't okay, down, put it down, yeah,

132
00:06:39,080 --> 00:06:42,080
Speaker 1: put it down. Of your ears. That's a really cool

133
00:06:42,080 --> 00:06:44,960
Speaker 1: one too, because it's like it deserves to be explained

134
00:06:45,080 --> 00:06:47,520
Speaker 1: or like gone into Yeah, but you know they say,

135
00:06:47,600 --> 00:06:49,920
Speaker 1: like well, and I don't know anything about it, but

136
00:06:49,960 --> 00:06:52,840
Speaker 1: it's like usually you're not supposed to give those things air.

137
00:06:53,400 --> 00:06:55,000
Speaker 1: And they made a whole serious about it.

138
00:06:55,040 --> 00:06:58,560
Speaker 2: But it's also like explores parasocial relationships. So she was

139
00:06:58,600 --> 00:07:00,360
Speaker 2: like telling me that I should listen just as like

140
00:07:00,400 --> 00:07:01,400
Speaker 2: a cautionary tale.

141
00:07:01,440 --> 00:07:04,080
Speaker 1: Really, I do all of it wrong. Yes, I mean

142
00:07:04,120 --> 00:07:06,280
Speaker 1: it's so hard it is, and also it isn't the

143
00:07:06,360 --> 00:07:09,279
Speaker 1: same as I don't know, it's just such a weird

144
00:07:09,320 --> 00:07:12,240
Speaker 1: different time. It's like there need to be updated rules

145
00:07:12,240 --> 00:07:13,080
Speaker 1: for this time.

146
00:07:13,160 --> 00:07:15,560
Speaker 2: Absolutely, And it was twenty fifteen, so she kind of

147
00:07:15,560 --> 00:07:18,080
Speaker 2: and she's such a sweetheart. She didn't really right, no,

148
00:07:18,800 --> 00:07:20,960
Speaker 2: that the relationship isn't what you think it's going to be,

149
00:07:21,040 --> 00:07:22,680
Speaker 2: and it's fucking gnarly.

150
00:07:22,840 --> 00:07:25,320
Speaker 1: Okay, we all have to listen to Bethstead and really

151
00:07:25,360 --> 00:07:28,960
Speaker 1: process some stuff. Yeah all right, Well, I got reminded

152
00:07:29,040 --> 00:07:32,880
Speaker 1: by our writer Alison and our producer Mollie as a

153
00:07:33,040 --> 00:07:37,760
Speaker 1: fun news update for the Parley Overpass, which was featured

154
00:07:37,800 --> 00:07:41,080
Speaker 1: and I talked about it in episode two fifty Look

155
00:07:41,120 --> 00:07:46,280
Speaker 1: Who's Passing, which later became an MFM animated Claire the

156
00:07:46,320 --> 00:07:48,800
Speaker 1: Bossy Deer. Yes, and it was all about that they

157
00:07:48,880 --> 00:07:53,520
Speaker 1: built this overpass so that animals could basically not be

158
00:07:53,560 --> 00:07:57,280
Speaker 1: in the road anymore. And Utah State University because it

159
00:07:58,080 --> 00:08:02,920
Speaker 1: happened in Utah, the Division of Wildlife Resources and Transportation.

160
00:08:03,080 --> 00:08:06,440
Speaker 1: I guess got love of them, right, love their work,

161
00:08:06,640 --> 00:08:10,040
Speaker 1: their work. Oh, those bitches are so real. I caught it.

162
00:08:12,320 --> 00:08:16,400
Speaker 1: But basically the overpass is going so good. Seventy seven

163
00:08:16,560 --> 00:08:21,320
Speaker 1: percent reduction in wildlife vehicle collisions. Wow, a fifteen million

164
00:08:21,360 --> 00:08:26,200
Speaker 1: dollar cost benefit over the bridge's lifetime. And their favorite

165
00:08:26,240 --> 00:08:30,160
Speaker 1: finding is most successfully crossed one hundred percent of the time.

166
00:08:30,360 --> 00:08:32,120
Speaker 1: You never missed a moose because.

167
00:08:31,880 --> 00:08:33,720
Speaker 2: The moose will kill you if you fucking hit it

168
00:08:33,760 --> 00:08:36,400
Speaker 2: with your car too. Oh yeah, like that's deadly. It

169
00:08:36,480 --> 00:08:39,640
Speaker 2: is not like, yeah, no running over a squirrel. Not

170
00:08:39,720 --> 00:08:41,480
Speaker 2: that I'm condoning that, but like.

171
00:08:41,640 --> 00:08:45,800
Speaker 1: No, although they can be pretty aggressive, Let's be honest,

172
00:08:46,160 --> 00:08:49,199
Speaker 1: what if I wanted that acorn? You didn't even ask me.

173
00:08:49,320 --> 00:08:50,240
Speaker 1: It's my front yard.

174
00:08:50,720 --> 00:08:53,439
Speaker 2: Oh my god, there's a squirrel rotting in our backyard

175
00:08:53,480 --> 00:08:54,840
Speaker 2: and we're not doing anything about it.

176
00:08:55,160 --> 00:08:57,120
Speaker 1: Oh, I have a lot of like animal stories for

177
00:08:57,240 --> 00:09:02,120
Speaker 1: my backyard. Yeah, it sounds like a palais gorgeous tropical jungle.

178
00:09:02,280 --> 00:09:06,880
Speaker 1: It's not, but a lot happens there. Should we do

179
00:09:06,960 --> 00:09:08,839
Speaker 1: our network highlights?

180
00:09:09,000 --> 00:09:11,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, So we have a podcast network and this holiday

181
00:09:11,880 --> 00:09:14,680
Speaker 2: season we'd love for you to listen to some podcasts

182
00:09:14,720 --> 00:09:15,000
Speaker 2: on it.

183
00:09:15,040 --> 00:09:17,560
Speaker 1: That's right. So while we have you here, just a

184
00:09:17,640 --> 00:09:22,640
Speaker 1: quick reminder our newest podcast, Brief Recess, a legal podcast

185
00:09:22,679 --> 00:09:25,600
Speaker 1: with Michael Foot and Melissa Malbranch, which, by the way,

186
00:09:25,960 --> 00:09:28,599
Speaker 1: such a delightful you want to talk about parasocial relationship.

187
00:09:28,679 --> 00:09:30,160
Speaker 1: I just want to hang out and talk to those

188
00:09:30,200 --> 00:09:33,920
Speaker 1: guys or listen to them talking all day longer. It's

189
00:09:33,960 --> 00:09:36,400
Speaker 1: if you haven't listened to it. It kind of has

190
00:09:36,920 --> 00:09:40,840
Speaker 1: a little bit of everything. They're addressing these horrifying things

191
00:09:40,840 --> 00:09:43,360
Speaker 1: that are happening in our world right now with light

192
00:09:43,400 --> 00:09:46,199
Speaker 1: in a lighthearted way, but also but also with call

193
00:09:46,240 --> 00:09:50,360
Speaker 1: to action, a call to action, but then Sleigh boots

194
00:09:50,440 --> 00:09:53,679
Speaker 1: down all the things you want. But just to remind

195
00:09:53,720 --> 00:09:57,040
Speaker 1: you they are on YouTube because it is a podcast,

196
00:09:57,080 --> 00:09:59,560
Speaker 1: but it's a video podcast as well, so every single

197
00:09:59,559 --> 00:10:02,640
Speaker 1: episode comes out on video. You can watch Michael and

198
00:10:02,720 --> 00:10:05,480
Speaker 1: Melissa as well as listen to them, So please go

199
00:10:05,520 --> 00:10:09,080
Speaker 1: over to their YouTube page YouTube dot com, slash at

200
00:10:09,160 --> 00:10:13,520
Speaker 1: Brief Recess and like, subscribe, interact, do all the things

201
00:10:13,520 --> 00:10:16,319
Speaker 1: that let people know that you like something but also

202
00:10:16,920 --> 00:10:19,680
Speaker 1: enjoy a video podcast. Yeah, it's the future. You're so

203
00:10:19,880 --> 00:10:20,760
Speaker 1: young and with it.

204
00:10:22,559 --> 00:10:24,920
Speaker 2: And if you're craving more content over the holidays, now

205
00:10:25,000 --> 00:10:27,400
Speaker 2: is the time to join the fan called at fancult

206
00:10:27,440 --> 00:10:31,000
Speaker 2: dot supercast dot com. You'll get every episode of My

207
00:10:31,040 --> 00:10:35,360
Speaker 2: Favorite Murder ad free plus exclusive audio and video, so

208
00:10:35,520 --> 00:10:37,600
Speaker 2: much video content and more.

209
00:10:37,760 --> 00:10:40,360
Speaker 1: And if that doesn't satisfy you, then follow My Favorite

210
00:10:40,400 --> 00:10:43,200
Speaker 1: Murder on Instagram and on TikTok. We're on TikTok too,

211
00:10:43,760 --> 00:10:45,720
Speaker 1: and make sure you don't miss any of our clips,

212
00:10:45,840 --> 00:10:48,400
Speaker 1: or our polls, or our special announcements and all the

213
00:10:48,440 --> 00:10:49,720
Speaker 1: other things so we have over there.

214
00:10:49,800 --> 00:10:53,240
Speaker 2: We've been blowing up social media lately because Shannon, our

215
00:10:53,360 --> 00:10:57,160
Speaker 2: social media manager, has been just fucking working her butt

216
00:10:57,200 --> 00:10:58,480
Speaker 2: off and killing it.

217
00:10:58,559 --> 00:11:01,520
Speaker 1: Shannon McNally, that's right, Please please follow us 's a

218
00:11:01,600 --> 00:11:04,880
Speaker 1: legend and for our last minute holiday shoppers, don't worry.

219
00:11:04,920 --> 00:11:05,559
Speaker 1: We've got you.

220
00:11:05,880 --> 00:11:08,480
Speaker 2: The Exactly Right store has easy gift options that don't

221
00:11:08,520 --> 00:11:12,000
Speaker 2: require express shipping. Had to exactly wrightstore dot com to

222
00:11:12,080 --> 00:11:14,560
Speaker 2: shop gift cards or sign up for the fan Cult

223
00:11:15,160 --> 00:11:18,160
Speaker 2: for someone you love at fancult dot supercast dot com.

224
00:11:18,200 --> 00:11:20,400
Speaker 1: That's right, great gift. It's a really good gift. And

225
00:11:20,559 --> 00:11:23,560
Speaker 1: you can get subscriptions for three, six or twelve months,

226
00:11:23,600 --> 00:11:25,600
Speaker 1: depending on how much you like the person you're buying

227
00:11:25,640 --> 00:11:27,280
Speaker 1: it for, and like how long it'd be in my life.

228
00:11:27,360 --> 00:11:29,480
Speaker 1: I don't know, So let's just try three months. Just

229
00:11:29,480 --> 00:11:32,360
Speaker 1: do three months and see how you do, how I

230
00:11:32,520 --> 00:11:35,920
Speaker 1: decide you do. That's right. Oh, Also, it's time for

231
00:11:35,960 --> 00:11:40,080
Speaker 1: another December donation. That's part this is very fun. Every

232
00:11:40,240 --> 00:11:43,079
Speaker 1: December we like to spend the month giving to groups

233
00:11:43,120 --> 00:11:45,960
Speaker 1: doing life changing work here in the United States and

234
00:11:46,240 --> 00:11:47,280
Speaker 1: of course around the world.

235
00:11:47,360 --> 00:11:50,840
Speaker 2: So today we're doting ten thousand dollars to World Central Kitchen,

236
00:11:51,320 --> 00:11:53,840
Speaker 2: led by chef jose and Dress. They provide meals to

237
00:11:53,920 --> 00:11:58,720
Speaker 2: communities and crisis getting food to people quickly after natural disasters, conflicts,

238
00:11:58,720 --> 00:12:00,000
Speaker 2: and humanitarian emergency.

239
00:12:00,400 --> 00:12:03,440
Speaker 1: Their mission is to use the power of food to heal, support,

240
00:12:03,480 --> 00:12:05,640
Speaker 1: and rebuild communities when they need it the most.

241
00:12:05,720 --> 00:12:08,880
Speaker 2: In twenty twenty four, World Central Kitchen supported families impacted

242
00:12:08,880 --> 00:12:12,200
Speaker 2: by conflict and disasters in twenty countries, providing over one

243
00:12:12,280 --> 00:12:14,880
Speaker 2: hundred and nine million meals. So if you'd like to

244
00:12:14,920 --> 00:12:18,920
Speaker 2: join us in supporting their work, head to WCK dot org.

245
00:12:19,200 --> 00:12:22,040
Speaker 1: And if donating isn't your thing right now, you can

246
00:12:22,040 --> 00:12:27,040
Speaker 1: also explore volunteer opportunities at WCK dot org slash volunteer.

247
00:12:27,160 --> 00:12:34,160
Speaker 1: So yay December donations. All right, well, now it is

248
00:12:34,200 --> 00:12:38,280
Speaker 1: a solo show. Time for you to do your Christmas thing.

249
00:12:38,240 --> 00:12:43,240
Speaker 2: Okay, And this story is just so into the holiday spirit.

250
00:12:43,520 --> 00:12:44,480
Speaker 1: Okay, No, it's not.

251
00:12:44,920 --> 00:12:50,199
Speaker 2: Oh but it's good okay, And it's fun and I'm

252
00:12:50,200 --> 00:12:52,240
Speaker 2: excited to tell you about it. Okay, but you're gonna

253
00:12:52,240 --> 00:12:53,760
Speaker 2: know about it because this is a story that if

254
00:12:53,800 --> 00:12:57,760
Speaker 2: you were alive and at least semi conscious during the nineties,

255
00:12:58,240 --> 00:13:02,840
Speaker 2: you vividly remember this story. It was a huge media

256
00:13:02,880 --> 00:13:06,439
Speaker 2: sensation the way only nineties media could do tackless and

257
00:13:06,520 --> 00:13:14,600
Speaker 2: vulgar and in your fucking face constantly when they ban smoking. No,

258
00:13:14,600 --> 00:13:15,840
Speaker 2: now we know what was important to you.

259
00:13:15,920 --> 00:13:19,440
Speaker 1: Back to tell whole story about I just remember being

260
00:13:19,480 --> 00:13:22,160
Speaker 1: like it's never gonna work, right, no one's ever going

261
00:13:22,240 --> 00:13:24,840
Speaker 1: to do this smoking or not. And then Coco's you

262
00:13:24,920 --> 00:13:28,120
Speaker 1: have to goes at two am.

263
00:13:28,920 --> 00:13:31,280
Speaker 2: We used to smoke in Denny's. That's what that's the

264
00:13:31,320 --> 00:13:33,000
Speaker 2: new question of how old are you? No, have you

265
00:13:33,040 --> 00:13:34,400
Speaker 2: ever had a cigarette in Denny's? Ye?

266
00:13:34,720 --> 00:13:38,280
Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, yeah, no, Okay.

267
00:13:39,520 --> 00:13:42,440
Speaker 2: So it's January sixth, nineteen ninety four, and it will

268
00:13:42,440 --> 00:13:45,160
Speaker 2: be the country's most infamous January sixth for the next

269
00:13:45,160 --> 00:13:45,959
Speaker 2: seventeen years.

270
00:13:46,840 --> 00:13:49,080
Speaker 1: Then there will be one that you can't be that's right.

271
00:13:49,280 --> 00:13:52,960
Speaker 2: We're at the Cobo Arena in Detroit, Michigan, a day

272
00:13:52,960 --> 00:13:58,480
Speaker 2: before the US Figure Skating Championships, and we all know what's.

273
00:13:58,280 --> 00:13:59,720
Speaker 1: About to happen. Yes we do.

274
00:14:00,120 --> 00:14:03,560
Speaker 2: This is the story of Nancy Kerrigan and Tanya Harding.

275
00:14:03,840 --> 00:14:08,040
Speaker 1: I mean god, this is crazy. It was such a

276
00:14:08,160 --> 00:14:10,040
Speaker 1: wild like story.

277
00:14:10,679 --> 00:14:13,280
Speaker 2: It was huge, and it was on the cover of

278
00:14:13,320 --> 00:14:16,600
Speaker 2: like every magazine. People wouldn't shut up about it. Yeah,

279
00:14:16,679 --> 00:14:19,080
Speaker 2: it was one of the biggest fucking stories in the nineties.

280
00:14:19,440 --> 00:14:22,120
Speaker 2: So so good. You don't know about it yet, you should.

281
00:14:22,280 --> 00:14:24,120
Speaker 2: The main sources for the story are an essay in

282
00:14:24,200 --> 00:14:27,000
Speaker 2: The Believer by Sarah Marshall, and she actually hosts the

283
00:14:27,040 --> 00:14:28,520
Speaker 2: podcast You're Wrong About.

284
00:14:28,520 --> 00:14:30,400
Speaker 1: Which is super good. Oh yeah, that's a good podcast.

285
00:14:30,440 --> 00:14:33,760
Speaker 2: And the ESPN thirty for thirty documentary called The Price

286
00:14:33,760 --> 00:14:34,200
Speaker 2: of Gold.

287
00:14:34,360 --> 00:14:36,400
Speaker 1: Remember when I called it thirty by thirty and everyone

288
00:14:36,440 --> 00:14:40,800
Speaker 1: got mad? No one got mad. I just love how

289
00:14:40,840 --> 00:14:43,960
Speaker 1: often I've done that. We're just like, you know, on

290
00:14:44,080 --> 00:14:46,920
Speaker 1: thirty by thirty of people like it's thirty for thirty,

291
00:14:47,200 --> 00:14:50,040
Speaker 1: just like we're like we did a whole thank you

292
00:14:50,080 --> 00:14:52,560
Speaker 1: of when we're in People magazine and like we shared

293
00:14:52,560 --> 00:14:54,680
Speaker 1: a page with some band and I said the name wrong.

294
00:14:54,720 --> 00:14:58,320
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, like it's actually band at Foot. Okay, my

295
00:14:58,360 --> 00:15:01,480
Speaker 1: favorite murder. We're going to get it wrong. Yeah, essentially

296
00:15:01,680 --> 00:15:04,960
Speaker 1: that's right, all right, so we all know this part.

297
00:15:05,200 --> 00:15:08,120
Speaker 1: I think there's some people that weren't born for like

298
00:15:08,240 --> 00:15:12,800
Speaker 1: ten years when this also just like lately, with the

299
00:15:12,840 --> 00:15:15,840
Speaker 1: way things are going, remind us of the good times. Yeah,

300
00:15:15,880 --> 00:15:16,680
Speaker 1: I was thinking about it.

301
00:15:16,720 --> 00:15:19,080
Speaker 2: It's like there's a possibility a lot of listeners who

302
00:15:19,160 --> 00:15:21,840
Speaker 2: hadn't been born yet. But is it possible that some

303
00:15:21,920 --> 00:15:23,800
Speaker 2: listeners parents hadn't been born yet.

304
00:15:23,840 --> 00:15:26,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, let's not talk about that. Okay, babies haven't babies

305
00:15:26,920 --> 00:15:29,119
Speaker 1: all right, babies.

306
00:15:30,160 --> 00:15:34,880
Speaker 2: So Nancy Kerrigan is practicing her routine for the US Championships. Nancy,

307
00:15:34,920 --> 00:15:38,480
Speaker 2: along with several other American skaters, most notably Tanya Harding,

308
00:15:38,640 --> 00:15:39,840
Speaker 2: is vying for a spot on.

309
00:15:39,800 --> 00:15:40,760
Speaker 1: The Olympic team.

310
00:15:41,120 --> 00:15:44,680
Speaker 2: She'll need to place first at this championship or maybe

311
00:15:44,720 --> 00:15:46,280
Speaker 2: second in order to go.

312
00:15:46,560 --> 00:15:47,360
Speaker 1: So it's a big deal.

313
00:15:47,800 --> 00:15:51,800
Speaker 2: Now, Nancy's America's sweetheart in the only way Olympic hopefuls

314
00:15:51,840 --> 00:15:54,120
Speaker 2: can be. Like, it's just such a thing that we

315
00:15:54,160 --> 00:15:56,200
Speaker 2: put on them of like, we need you to be

316
00:15:56,280 --> 00:16:00,480
Speaker 2: perfect and represent our country exactly how we want you to.

317
00:16:00,760 --> 00:16:02,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, it seems like a lot of pressure. There's a

318
00:16:02,280 --> 00:16:04,400
Speaker 1: lot of pressure. And also, especially in ice skating, I

319
00:16:04,440 --> 00:16:06,200
Speaker 1: think there's not a lot of people that can do

320
00:16:06,240 --> 00:16:08,080
Speaker 1: it unless they have money, that's right.

321
00:16:08,280 --> 00:16:12,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, yes, So Nancy is pretty and elegant, and she's

322
00:16:12,360 --> 00:16:16,480
Speaker 2: talented but humble and is the quintessential ice princess that

323
00:16:16,520 --> 00:16:20,040
Speaker 2: the public and ice skating judges root for. So she

324
00:16:20,320 --> 00:16:24,760
Speaker 2: is that quintessential beautiful ice skater. A camera crews in

325
00:16:24,800 --> 00:16:27,880
Speaker 2: the rink filming her practice. When she finishes, Nancy walks

326
00:16:27,880 --> 00:16:30,480
Speaker 2: off the ice and disappears through a black curtain to

327
00:16:30,600 --> 00:16:34,000
Speaker 2: walk through a hallway to the locker rooms. Her coaches,

328
00:16:34,080 --> 00:16:37,600
Speaker 2: Evy and Mary Scott Vold, who are married, are nearby

329
00:16:37,880 --> 00:16:40,520
Speaker 2: finishing up a conversation with some friends, and then they're

330
00:16:40,520 --> 00:16:42,760
Speaker 2: going to follow Nancy out to the locker rooms. But

331
00:16:42,760 --> 00:16:44,960
Speaker 2: before they can do that, they hear a blood curling

332
00:16:45,080 --> 00:16:49,000
Speaker 2: shriek coming from the hallway. They run through the curtain

333
00:16:49,040 --> 00:16:51,760
Speaker 2: to see Nancy crumpled in a heap on the ground.

334
00:16:51,960 --> 00:16:54,560
Speaker 2: I mean, I'll never forget this video. I'll never forget

335
00:16:54,560 --> 00:16:57,520
Speaker 2: the sound of her voice. Yep, she's gripping her knee

336
00:16:57,560 --> 00:17:00,960
Speaker 2: and sobbing, and the camera crew runs out. They start rolling,

337
00:17:01,520 --> 00:17:04,000
Speaker 2: and the video of Nancy on the floor in her

338
00:17:04,080 --> 00:17:10,160
Speaker 2: pretty white costume bawling will become infamous, particularly that she's

339
00:17:10,480 --> 00:17:15,360
Speaker 2: yelling over and over again, desperately asking why, why why.

340
00:17:15,640 --> 00:17:16,639
Speaker 2: I'll never forget it.

341
00:17:16,840 --> 00:17:20,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was just why why would anything bad happen

342
00:17:20,800 --> 00:17:24,320
Speaker 1: to me? How you take it? Oh my god, Well,

343
00:17:24,600 --> 00:17:26,800
Speaker 1: here's the thing. As you were saying that, and I've

344
00:17:26,840 --> 00:17:29,680
Speaker 1: never thought about this before, I'm like, well, of course,

345
00:17:29,720 --> 00:17:32,119
Speaker 1: because it's the Olympics and there's camera crews everywhere. But

346
00:17:32,200 --> 00:17:36,640
Speaker 1: it is so like weirdly perfect, the idea that they

347
00:17:36,640 --> 00:17:40,640
Speaker 1: did this there, yeah, where everything even back then would

348
00:17:40,680 --> 00:17:44,000
Speaker 1: be recorded, and yeah, like found out is it's such

349
00:17:44,040 --> 00:17:44,920
Speaker 1: a crazy plan.

350
00:17:45,240 --> 00:17:47,520
Speaker 2: It's really stupid. It's a stupid plan and it falls

351
00:17:47,520 --> 00:17:50,040
Speaker 2: apart quickly. But it's funny that, like, so we all

352
00:17:50,080 --> 00:17:54,760
Speaker 2: have preconceived notion of this story, Like Nancy is the victim,

353
00:17:54,880 --> 00:17:58,280
Speaker 2: but we don't like her for orderas and Tanya, you know,

354
00:17:58,920 --> 00:18:01,360
Speaker 2: you're on her side for some reason, even though she's

355
00:18:01,480 --> 00:18:04,040
Speaker 2: very unlikable in a lot of ways and it's really

356
00:18:04,040 --> 00:18:07,359
Speaker 2: hard to root for her, especially like in her own interviews. Yes,

357
00:18:07,400 --> 00:18:10,840
Speaker 2: but you know it's been shaped by the media, our view.

358
00:18:11,000 --> 00:18:13,439
Speaker 1: And also we've all been raised to hate women so

359
00:18:13,600 --> 00:18:15,440
Speaker 1: much that we can figure out a way to hate

360
00:18:15,520 --> 00:18:17,679
Speaker 1: any woman. You don't have to seat. You can be

361
00:18:17,760 --> 00:18:20,960
Speaker 1: the victim, you could be the perpetrator, you could be whatever.

362
00:18:21,520 --> 00:18:23,919
Speaker 1: And that's how we do it to woman. Whereas like

363
00:18:24,000 --> 00:18:26,000
Speaker 1: there'll be some dude standing there and you're just like,

364
00:18:26,240 --> 00:18:28,800
Speaker 1: I don't know, he's fine, You're like, I hate her.

365
00:18:28,880 --> 00:18:31,440
Speaker 2: I don't like the way she was crying for being

366
00:18:31,560 --> 00:18:32,960
Speaker 2: hit in the fucking kneed.

367
00:18:33,240 --> 00:18:35,760
Speaker 1: I didn't like the way she was wailing in pain. Yeah,

368
00:18:35,840 --> 00:18:36,639
Speaker 1: that bothers me.

369
00:18:37,160 --> 00:18:39,600
Speaker 2: It's stuck up the way she was wailing pain. So yeah,

370
00:18:39,600 --> 00:18:43,280
Speaker 2: so it's fucked up and she's just purely an innocent victim.

371
00:18:43,600 --> 00:18:45,560
Speaker 2: She won't give a lot of interviews about this. She

372
00:18:45,680 --> 00:18:47,040
Speaker 2: just tries to move on with her life.

373
00:18:47,080 --> 00:18:49,560
Speaker 1: So we kind of can you how many times they've

374
00:18:49,560 --> 00:18:52,520
Speaker 1: asked her of it? Just like for fifty years? Yeah,

375
00:18:53,119 --> 00:18:55,560
Speaker 1: it wasn't fifty years now it feels like it though.

376
00:18:56,280 --> 00:18:59,520
Speaker 2: Thirty. So it comes out that a large unknown man

377
00:18:59,560 --> 00:19:01,679
Speaker 2: and a leather jacket has just snuck up out of

378
00:19:01,720 --> 00:19:05,239
Speaker 2: nowhere and whacked her one time in the leg with

379
00:19:05,320 --> 00:19:08,560
Speaker 2: a long metal object. And Evy scottfold the husband and

380
00:19:08,600 --> 00:19:12,120
Speaker 2: the husband and wife coach team that coaches Nancy looks

381
00:19:12,160 --> 00:19:14,840
Speaker 2: up to see this man crashing through a locked glass

382
00:19:14,880 --> 00:19:16,080
Speaker 2: door of the arena.

383
00:19:16,480 --> 00:19:19,280
Speaker 1: Oh, like it's locked. So have you seen the movie?

384
00:19:19,400 --> 00:19:21,760
Speaker 1: E Tanya? I have, but I don't remember this part.

385
00:19:21,880 --> 00:19:23,679
Speaker 2: He I don't know if this actually happens, but in

386
00:19:23,680 --> 00:19:26,359
Speaker 2: the movie he smashes his forehead through the glass because

387
00:19:26,400 --> 00:19:28,919
Speaker 2: the door is like bolted shut the lock shut.

388
00:19:29,600 --> 00:19:30,879
Speaker 1: But we I don't know if that happened.

389
00:19:30,880 --> 00:19:33,240
Speaker 2: But somehow he smashes the window and like bolts out

390
00:19:33,240 --> 00:19:36,520
Speaker 2: the so first of all, like, not sid, dude.

391
00:19:36,320 --> 00:19:38,760
Speaker 1: You plan this so I'm an exit. You plan an

392
00:19:38,760 --> 00:19:42,200
Speaker 1: exit that's not chained and locked, right. And also it's

393
00:19:42,240 --> 00:19:44,520
Speaker 1: the Olympics, so you're not going to have the easiest

394
00:19:44,600 --> 00:19:47,160
Speaker 1: ins and outs around the practice area, right.

395
00:19:47,880 --> 00:19:50,480
Speaker 2: So everyone looks for him and no one can find him,

396
00:19:51,000 --> 00:19:53,880
Speaker 2: and they try to chase him, but they lose him.

397
00:19:54,480 --> 00:19:57,040
Speaker 2: But still Evy will wind up saying to his wife

398
00:19:57,119 --> 00:20:00,440
Speaker 2: Mary that night and surprises her that he suspects Nancy's

399
00:20:00,480 --> 00:20:03,919
Speaker 2: main competitor, Tanya Harding, has something to do with the attack.

400
00:20:04,080 --> 00:20:05,400
Speaker 1: Oh, immediately, imedially.

401
00:20:06,600 --> 00:20:09,320
Speaker 2: Tanya and Nancy are both twenty four years old, and

402
00:20:09,359 --> 00:20:12,000
Speaker 2: they both come from working class backgrounds on opposite sides

403
00:20:12,000 --> 00:20:14,399
Speaker 2: of the country. So Nancy is born in nineteen sixty

404
00:20:14,480 --> 00:20:17,040
Speaker 2: nine and grows up in Stoneham, Massachusetts.

405
00:20:17,680 --> 00:20:19,399
Speaker 1: Her dad, Daniel.

406
00:20:19,160 --> 00:20:21,440
Speaker 2: Is a welder and her mom, Brenda, is a stay

407
00:20:21,440 --> 00:20:24,280
Speaker 2: at home mom, and Brenda is legally blind, having lost

408
00:20:24,320 --> 00:20:26,800
Speaker 2: most of her vision from a virus she got when

409
00:20:26,840 --> 00:20:27,800
Speaker 2: Nancy was a baby.

410
00:20:28,040 --> 00:20:29,040
Speaker 1: Oh my god. Yeah.

411
00:20:29,160 --> 00:20:31,920
Speaker 2: So Nancy has two brothers who play hockey, and while

412
00:20:31,960 --> 00:20:35,119
Speaker 2: the family's not at all wealthy, once Nancy shows an

413
00:20:35,160 --> 00:20:38,200
Speaker 2: aptitude for figure skating around the time she's eight years old.

414
00:20:38,320 --> 00:20:42,880
Speaker 2: They put everything in to it, and as you said,

415
00:20:42,880 --> 00:20:46,800
Speaker 2: professional ice skating is not fucking cheap. It's almost like

416
00:20:46,880 --> 00:20:48,960
Speaker 2: horseback riding to me, where it's just like there's so

417
00:20:49,000 --> 00:20:49,640
Speaker 2: many things.

418
00:20:49,440 --> 00:20:50,400
Speaker 1: You have to buy.

419
00:20:50,720 --> 00:20:54,280
Speaker 2: You have to buy ice time, coach, like, spend money

420
00:20:54,280 --> 00:20:58,440
Speaker 2: to be on the ice, coaching costumes, all of that shit.

421
00:20:58,520 --> 00:21:01,640
Speaker 1: Those skates we bought me and Laura bought Nora because

422
00:21:01,720 --> 00:21:04,480
Speaker 1: Nora got into ice skating. It was really cute. She

423
00:21:04,560 --> 00:21:07,080
Speaker 1: was pretty good at it. But we bought her for

424
00:21:07,200 --> 00:21:09,800
Speaker 1: Christmas of the most beautiful pair of ice skates, and

425
00:21:09,840 --> 00:21:12,159
Speaker 1: she grew out of them within like nine months, like

426
00:21:12,240 --> 00:21:14,119
Speaker 1: she needed another pair where I was like, how much

427
00:21:14,160 --> 00:21:16,960
Speaker 1: were they they? I can't remember, I mean, but it

428
00:21:17,000 --> 00:21:18,960
Speaker 1: was like that kind of thing where you're just like, oh, yeah,

429
00:21:19,000 --> 00:21:22,000
Speaker 1: they're kids, right, and you have to do that over

430
00:21:22,040 --> 00:21:24,800
Speaker 1: and over their whole career. My kid would sit at home.

431
00:21:24,960 --> 00:21:28,959
Speaker 2: Yeah, Nancy's dad at times works three jobs to afford

432
00:21:29,080 --> 00:21:31,760
Speaker 2: Nancy's coaching costumes and ice time.

433
00:21:31,840 --> 00:21:34,080
Speaker 1: Why didn't they tell the story when it happened? Now?

434
00:21:34,119 --> 00:21:37,080
Speaker 1: I feel so guilty. No, I thought she was rich.

435
00:21:37,320 --> 00:21:40,280
Speaker 1: She was not rich. I just assumed she just she

436
00:21:40,359 --> 00:21:40,920
Speaker 1: know what she was.

437
00:21:40,920 --> 00:21:43,880
Speaker 2: Rich in, which I think a lot of people don't

438
00:21:43,880 --> 00:21:46,639
Speaker 2: give enough credit for is having a stable family. And

439
00:21:46,680 --> 00:21:49,119
Speaker 2: that's a privilege in itself. And you know she had that,

440
00:21:49,160 --> 00:21:50,879
Speaker 2: and that's great and good for her. And it doesn't

441
00:21:50,880 --> 00:21:54,440
Speaker 2: even seem like there was an actual rivalry between Tanya

442
00:21:55,040 --> 00:21:58,600
Speaker 2: and Nancy. It was just that Nancy was her biggest competition.

443
00:21:58,760 --> 00:22:00,240
Speaker 2: So Nancy had nothing to fucking do with.

444
00:22:00,200 --> 00:22:03,800
Speaker 1: This, really, right, that's a very meaningful thing about the

445
00:22:03,800 --> 00:22:06,159
Speaker 1: family thing. That's very true because it was almost like

446
00:22:06,280 --> 00:22:08,280
Speaker 1: we're all going to pitch in and make this happen.

447
00:22:08,080 --> 00:22:10,840
Speaker 2: Right, Like they all traveled together to her competitions, even

448
00:22:10,880 --> 00:22:13,000
Speaker 2: her brothers. She stayed in the same hotel room with

449
00:22:13,440 --> 00:22:16,520
Speaker 2: her parents. You know, it's just like that. But I

450
00:22:16,520 --> 00:22:18,320
Speaker 2: don't want to stay in a hotel room with my parents.

451
00:22:18,400 --> 00:22:20,520
Speaker 1: No, I never have. That's not fun at all.

452
00:22:21,800 --> 00:22:23,520
Speaker 2: And at one point her dad takes a job driving

453
00:22:23,560 --> 00:22:26,359
Speaker 2: the zamboni at the rink in exchange for Nancy's ice time.

454
00:22:26,680 --> 00:22:29,200
Speaker 2: So they're dedicated. They don't have tremendous means, but it's

455
00:22:29,240 --> 00:22:33,280
Speaker 2: clearly a very loving and very stable household. I feel

456
00:22:33,320 --> 00:22:36,399
Speaker 2: so good, good, that's what I'm trying to do on

457
00:22:36,440 --> 00:22:39,240
Speaker 2: the other side of the country in Portland, Oregon, which

458
00:22:39,640 --> 00:22:41,640
Speaker 2: it's like rural Portland, Oregon.

459
00:22:42,080 --> 00:22:45,280
Speaker 1: This is not like Portland now Hester, It's not keep

460
00:22:45,359 --> 00:22:46,080
Speaker 1: Portland weird.

461
00:22:46,280 --> 00:22:48,720
Speaker 2: No, And it's like you own a gun and you

462
00:22:48,720 --> 00:22:51,960
Speaker 2: go hunting Portland, you know. And so there, Tanya Harding

463
00:22:52,040 --> 00:22:56,000
Speaker 2: is born into tougher circumstances. Tanya's dad, Albert, works odd

464
00:22:56,080 --> 00:22:59,000
Speaker 2: jobs and suffers from various health problems which stop him

465
00:22:59,000 --> 00:23:02,280
Speaker 2: from being able to work at times. Her mother, Lavanna

466
00:23:02,640 --> 00:23:07,120
Speaker 2: played by Alison Janny, epically I mean unbelievable, so incredibly

467
00:23:07,160 --> 00:23:10,439
Speaker 2: good in Nitania that it's uncomfortable. Yeah, she works as

468
00:23:10,480 --> 00:23:14,680
Speaker 2: a waitress and the family's home and financial situation is chaotic.

469
00:23:15,800 --> 00:23:18,200
Speaker 2: And can I just say, like, some thirty years later,

470
00:23:18,720 --> 00:23:21,320
Speaker 2: we're just now starting to learn about how chaos and

471
00:23:21,359 --> 00:23:25,240
Speaker 2: poverty in childhood can lead to subsequent cognitive and social

472
00:23:25,280 --> 00:23:29,240
Speaker 2: development issues, impair the development of executive function in children,

473
00:23:29,359 --> 00:23:33,359
Speaker 2: It changes the child's brain structure even which can lead

474
00:23:33,400 --> 00:23:37,160
Speaker 2: to anxiety and difficulties with social skills, mental health issues,

475
00:23:37,200 --> 00:23:37,679
Speaker 2: et cetera.

476
00:23:38,440 --> 00:23:39,960
Speaker 1: Look it up and go to therapy.

477
00:23:40,280 --> 00:23:44,159
Speaker 2: Everyone, And it's not an excuse it's just kind of

478
00:23:44,400 --> 00:23:45,879
Speaker 2: just say where her head was.

479
00:23:46,000 --> 00:23:47,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, right.

480
00:23:47,800 --> 00:23:50,040
Speaker 2: So when Tanya's three years old, a new mall opens

481
00:23:50,119 --> 00:23:51,560
Speaker 2: up nearby, and I want to say the name of

482
00:23:51,560 --> 00:23:54,359
Speaker 2: it because I love it. It's the Clackamas Town Center. I

483
00:23:54,359 --> 00:23:57,280
Speaker 2: don't know why I fucking love that word. I've been there, Clacamass.

484
00:23:57,320 --> 00:23:59,360
Speaker 2: They have an ie skinning rink right and write in it.

485
00:23:59,359 --> 00:24:01,400
Speaker 1: That's what I was. I'm gonna say, sorry, I keep

486
00:24:01,480 --> 00:24:03,000
Speaker 1: jumping you. I'm not trying to know.

487
00:24:03,119 --> 00:24:05,639
Speaker 2: The story, but probably better than I do. It has

488
00:24:05,640 --> 00:24:07,719
Speaker 2: a skating rink right in the very center of it,

489
00:24:07,760 --> 00:24:11,080
Speaker 2: and somehow Levana finds the money to get Tanya skating lessons,

490
00:24:11,480 --> 00:24:13,520
Speaker 2: and it's clear from the very beginning that she is

491
00:24:13,520 --> 00:24:17,120
Speaker 2: a supremely talented skater and athlete. From three years old.

492
00:24:17,280 --> 00:24:19,520
Speaker 1: Well, I mean that's the thing, because Nora was good

493
00:24:19,520 --> 00:24:21,679
Speaker 1: at it too. She was at a friend's birthday party

494
00:24:21,840 --> 00:24:25,800
Speaker 1: at the Charles Schultz Snoopy ice rink and someone sans hey,

495
00:24:25,960 --> 00:24:28,240
Speaker 1: and they're just like, she's she's very good at this

496
00:24:28,320 --> 00:24:30,560
Speaker 1: and likes it a lot. So my sister's like, I

497
00:24:30,600 --> 00:24:35,159
Speaker 1: mean it was, it's really fun. But the dedication you

498
00:24:35,280 --> 00:24:38,199
Speaker 1: have to sit in the most freezing room and just

499
00:24:38,280 --> 00:24:41,439
Speaker 1: watch your kids spin in circles. I didn't even think

500
00:24:41,440 --> 00:24:43,800
Speaker 1: about it for the parents. So it's just like, especially

501
00:24:43,880 --> 00:24:47,080
Speaker 1: California parents, just like, I don't know, isn't it hot outside?

502
00:24:47,280 --> 00:24:47,920
Speaker 1: You're not in a.

503
00:24:47,960 --> 00:24:51,360
Speaker 2: Lawn chair with a beer. It's like the worst possible

504
00:24:51,640 --> 00:24:54,679
Speaker 2: fuck that. Like Nancy's parents, Leavanna does as much as

505
00:24:54,680 --> 00:24:57,840
Speaker 2: she can to fund Tanya's skating, but it's harder for her,

506
00:24:57,840 --> 00:25:00,760
Speaker 2: and she also puts a lot of pressure on Tanya.

507
00:25:00,800 --> 00:25:02,760
Speaker 2: As we see in the movie, most people seem to

508
00:25:02,800 --> 00:25:05,440
Speaker 2: come to the conclusion that ice skating will be Tanya's

509
00:25:05,600 --> 00:25:08,600
Speaker 2: only shot at a more comfortable life than the one

510
00:25:08,640 --> 00:25:11,639
Speaker 2: she was born into. It's like this or nothing, and

511
00:25:11,680 --> 00:25:16,600
Speaker 2: it seems like they share that with her, this growing child, that's.

512
00:25:16,520 --> 00:25:19,320
Speaker 1: This is it. You better get this done for us, right,

513
00:25:19,359 --> 00:25:21,520
Speaker 1: And look how fucking hard your mom is working to

514
00:25:21,960 --> 00:25:22,600
Speaker 1: make it happen.

515
00:25:23,119 --> 00:25:26,120
Speaker 2: Just a lot of fucking pressure when when have to win?

516
00:25:26,960 --> 00:25:28,040
Speaker 2: What am I spending my money on?

517
00:25:28,280 --> 00:25:32,040
Speaker 1: Right? We're all sacrificing for you. Exactly. Get out there now,

518
00:25:32,080 --> 00:25:35,840
Speaker 1: have fun with it. You're not smiling enough do your

519
00:25:35,920 --> 00:25:39,879
Speaker 1: dance to want to be starting something. I mean Jesus Christ,

520
00:25:39,960 --> 00:25:42,800
Speaker 1: but we do to children in this country is so crazy?

521
00:25:43,320 --> 00:25:46,080
Speaker 1: Not me, not me. Well, we did it to Nora

522
00:25:46,119 --> 00:25:49,080
Speaker 1: a little bit. She got second place one time. I

523
00:25:49,119 --> 00:25:51,960
Speaker 1: know it was really exciting. No, I mean the pressure apart,

524
00:25:52,119 --> 00:25:55,800
Speaker 1: I don't think we're thankfully that's the one benefit usually

525
00:25:56,320 --> 00:25:58,959
Speaker 1: of not being, not being the pupil that have all

526
00:25:59,000 --> 00:26:01,320
Speaker 1: those things, right, is you get to sidestep a lot

527
00:26:01,320 --> 00:26:01,440
Speaker 1: of that.

528
00:26:01,680 --> 00:26:04,360
Speaker 2: I think my parents were like, just get passing grades,

529
00:26:04,440 --> 00:26:05,520
Speaker 2: and if you don't.

530
00:26:05,440 --> 00:26:08,439
Speaker 1: That's okay too. Yeah, just go, just go. And if

531
00:26:08,480 --> 00:26:11,960
Speaker 1: you don't, just graduate high school then they did, and

532
00:26:12,000 --> 00:26:14,120
Speaker 1: you did. You gave them everything they asked for and more.

533
00:26:14,200 --> 00:26:16,000
Speaker 1: That's right, No pressure, okay.

534
00:26:16,040 --> 00:26:18,679
Speaker 2: So even in real time, it's understood by Tanya's coaches

535
00:26:18,720 --> 00:26:21,959
Speaker 2: and skating companions that her circumstances are extremely difficult and

536
00:26:22,119 --> 00:26:25,400
Speaker 2: very different from the typical figure skater. When she's eleven,

537
00:26:25,600 --> 00:26:30,520
Speaker 2: her friend witnesses Lavanna hitting Tanya repeatedly in the rink's

538
00:26:30,600 --> 00:26:31,720
Speaker 2: bathroom with a hair.

539
00:26:31,560 --> 00:26:33,600
Speaker 1: Brush, just being abusive. Yeah.

540
00:26:33,640 --> 00:26:36,200
Speaker 2: The friend is shocked and horrified by this and tells

541
00:26:36,240 --> 00:26:38,879
Speaker 2: the coach that she wants to report Tanya's mom to

542
00:26:38,920 --> 00:26:41,920
Speaker 2: see PS. It's bad ass little eleven year old yep,

543
00:26:42,320 --> 00:26:45,840
Speaker 2: and the coach says that it would end Tanya's skating

544
00:26:45,880 --> 00:26:50,280
Speaker 2: career forever if they reported her, which is so sad

545
00:26:50,359 --> 00:26:54,159
Speaker 2: because it's like, maybe it would have made you have

546
00:26:54,200 --> 00:26:57,560
Speaker 2: a better life, even though skating isn't involved in it anymore,

547
00:26:57,600 --> 00:26:58,000
Speaker 2: you know what I mean?

548
00:26:58,000 --> 00:27:00,920
Speaker 1: It's yes, not that that also, how much of this

549
00:27:01,000 --> 00:27:02,720
Speaker 1: skating was her choice at that point.

550
00:27:04,359 --> 00:27:06,440
Speaker 2: A few years later, this friend actually winds up making

551
00:27:06,720 --> 00:27:10,000
Speaker 2: like a little documentary of that Tanya. By then, Tanya's fifteen,

552
00:27:10,400 --> 00:27:13,440
Speaker 2: and she very frankly talks about her difficult home life.

553
00:27:13,760 --> 00:27:16,760
Speaker 2: Tanya's mother participates in the documentary, and she's wearing a

554
00:27:16,800 --> 00:27:19,639
Speaker 2: fur coat with a green parrot perched on her shoulder,

555
00:27:19,800 --> 00:27:22,560
Speaker 2: just like in the movie. Later, Tanya will also say

556
00:27:22,560 --> 00:27:25,359
Speaker 2: that she was sexually abused as a teenager by several

557
00:27:25,400 --> 00:27:27,239
Speaker 2: people in her life, and it does seem like there

558
00:27:27,240 --> 00:27:30,280
Speaker 2: could have been a lack of protection in the environment

559
00:27:30,359 --> 00:27:33,040
Speaker 2: she grew up and it doesn't. It's so hard because

560
00:27:34,240 --> 00:27:38,119
Speaker 2: you can't believe everything this woman says, but there are

561
00:27:38,160 --> 00:27:41,560
Speaker 2: definitely parts of it that are true and you have

562
00:27:41,600 --> 00:27:46,080
Speaker 2: to believe. Yeah, so you know, she's an unreliable narrator, yes,

563
00:27:46,160 --> 00:27:48,080
Speaker 2: of course, but she's not lying about everything.

564
00:27:48,400 --> 00:27:50,080
Speaker 1: No. And also if you have the kind of mom

565
00:27:50,080 --> 00:27:52,600
Speaker 1: that'll beat you with a brush in a bathroom in

566
00:27:52,640 --> 00:27:55,200
Speaker 1: front of people, then there isn't a lot of protection

567
00:27:55,280 --> 00:27:58,480
Speaker 1: going on. It's easy to say this is definitely not happening.

568
00:27:58,920 --> 00:28:00,960
Speaker 1: Could it be worse at home? Of course? Yeah.

569
00:28:01,280 --> 00:28:03,280
Speaker 2: So the part of ice skating that most appeals to

570
00:28:03,359 --> 00:28:06,679
Speaker 2: Tanya is the athleticism. And we should talk about what

571
00:28:06,720 --> 00:28:09,400
Speaker 2: she looked like for people who don't know, Like, she

572
00:28:09,480 --> 00:28:11,120
Speaker 2: was just so quintessentially nineties.

573
00:28:11,440 --> 00:28:14,560
Speaker 1: She looked like she burned her eyeliner with a match

574
00:28:14,680 --> 00:28:17,359
Speaker 1: to get it moven on her eye. She had a

575
00:28:17,480 --> 00:28:20,320
Speaker 1: very strong she's like a redhead, but she had a

576
00:28:20,440 --> 00:28:21,800
Speaker 1: very strong eye.

577
00:28:21,960 --> 00:28:26,560
Speaker 2: She'd also bleach her hair like nineties blonde. Yeah, and

578
00:28:26,600 --> 00:28:28,480
Speaker 2: like the nineties was kind of still the eighties when

579
00:28:28,480 --> 00:28:29,200
Speaker 2: it came to style.

580
00:28:29,359 --> 00:28:32,360
Speaker 1: So think of that like big poofy, bang pofy, frizzy,

581
00:28:32,400 --> 00:28:36,200
Speaker 1: big hair, yeah, crimped and you know, yeah, but then

582
00:28:36,240 --> 00:28:38,680
Speaker 1: she had she looked like an Irish girl to me. Yeah,

583
00:28:38,720 --> 00:28:41,320
Speaker 1: she definitely looked like the photo that you posted of

584
00:28:41,400 --> 00:28:43,400
Speaker 1: yourself in high school, like you would have been fronts

585
00:28:43,440 --> 00:28:45,840
Speaker 1: with her. Yes, absolutely, she would have been one of Karen's,

586
00:28:45,880 --> 00:28:49,040
Speaker 1: like smoking in the girl's bathroom friends. My mom would

587
00:28:49,040 --> 00:28:52,720
Speaker 1: be like, I don't know if you should go to Tanya's. Exactly, yeah, exactly.

588
00:28:52,800 --> 00:28:56,680
Speaker 1: She definitely looks like she smelled like those Menthol cigarettes

589
00:28:56,720 --> 00:28:59,960
Speaker 1: that you were talking about. Totally right, like a Kelly Bundy. Yeah.

590
00:29:00,400 --> 00:29:02,880
Speaker 2: So she loves the athleticism of it. She can do

591
00:29:02,920 --> 00:29:05,480
Speaker 2: the grace and the artistry blah blah blah, but that's

592
00:29:05,480 --> 00:29:08,440
Speaker 2: not what comes naturally to her. What comes naturally what

593
00:29:08,480 --> 00:29:11,800
Speaker 2: she wants to do is land the most difficult tricks possible.

594
00:29:12,360 --> 00:29:13,600
Speaker 2: She kind of is a bad ass.

595
00:29:13,640 --> 00:29:14,160
Speaker 1: She's not kind of.

596
00:29:14,200 --> 00:29:16,280
Speaker 2: She's a bad ass in this way of like, I

597
00:29:16,280 --> 00:29:17,479
Speaker 2: if I'm gonna do this, I want to be the

598
00:29:17,560 --> 00:29:19,480
Speaker 2: fucking best at it, and I want to do it,

599
00:29:19,760 --> 00:29:21,320
Speaker 2: you know, in a way that no one else can.

600
00:29:21,960 --> 00:29:24,440
Speaker 2: And I know everyone out there doesn't think I can

601
00:29:24,480 --> 00:29:26,959
Speaker 2: do it, so I'm going to fucking show them and

602
00:29:27,000 --> 00:29:28,720
Speaker 2: then some so no one can deny it.

603
00:29:28,840 --> 00:29:29,760
Speaker 1: Such good revenge.

604
00:29:29,840 --> 00:29:31,760
Speaker 2: Oh, it's the best, Like, that's the best motivation is

605
00:29:31,800 --> 00:29:33,280
Speaker 2: when someone's like, oh, you don't think I can do that?

606
00:29:33,480 --> 00:29:36,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, Oh, let me go ahead and I'm already brave

607
00:29:36,240 --> 00:29:38,720
Speaker 1: enough to be able to ice skate, which I like,

608
00:29:38,800 --> 00:29:40,920
Speaker 1: I was watching hockey the other day and I'm just like,

609
00:29:41,040 --> 00:29:42,440
Speaker 1: how are they doing this?

610
00:29:42,640 --> 00:29:44,400
Speaker 2: I have I skated maybe once or twice in my life,

611
00:29:44,400 --> 00:29:47,120
Speaker 2: and I.

612
00:29:46,640 --> 00:29:51,440
Speaker 1: It's truly witchcraft. And then she's like, I'm not scared,

613
00:29:51,640 --> 00:29:55,120
Speaker 1: not only not to ice skate, but like of anything.

614
00:29:55,400 --> 00:29:58,320
Speaker 1: So here, I'll just do the thing that makes people cheer.

615
00:29:58,200 --> 00:30:02,040
Speaker 2: Right, And so the trick she wants to land to

616
00:30:02,160 --> 00:30:05,680
Speaker 2: prove herself to everyone takes a huge amount of strength

617
00:30:05,800 --> 00:30:09,400
Speaker 2: and power. And so as Tanya progresses on the ice

618
00:30:09,440 --> 00:30:12,720
Speaker 2: skating circuit, this athleticism and power becomes her calling card.

619
00:30:13,000 --> 00:30:14,680
Speaker 2: So remember back then, they used to always make fun

620
00:30:14,720 --> 00:30:16,360
Speaker 2: of how big her thighs were. Like that was a

621
00:30:16,360 --> 00:30:19,920
Speaker 2: big fucking joke, late night joke back then. Is how

622
00:30:20,160 --> 00:30:24,320
Speaker 2: because ice skaters are so slim and long and lank,

623
00:30:25,040 --> 00:30:27,600
Speaker 2: but they also have to be so fucking strong to

624
00:30:27,760 --> 00:30:30,560
Speaker 2: lift their bodies off of the fucking ice and twirler

625
00:30:30,720 --> 00:30:33,600
Speaker 2: like that takes so much strength. Yeah, but also don't

626
00:30:33,600 --> 00:30:35,920
Speaker 2: look like it. It's just this like horrible thing that

627
00:30:35,920 --> 00:30:37,200
Speaker 2: we did we do to women.

628
00:30:37,000 --> 00:30:39,680
Speaker 1: Of here's the rules. Now, you also have to go

629
00:30:39,720 --> 00:30:42,240
Speaker 1: backwards and in high heels type of stuff exactly.

630
00:30:42,720 --> 00:30:46,040
Speaker 2: And so while she's known for these like athletic moves

631
00:30:46,800 --> 00:30:50,080
Speaker 2: and she's like willing to try things that other ice

632
00:30:50,080 --> 00:30:53,440
Speaker 2: skaters won't, Nancy becomes known for her grace and her

633
00:30:53,480 --> 00:30:56,400
Speaker 2: spins and her elegant lines. So they're very different, but

634
00:30:56,560 --> 00:30:59,120
Speaker 2: they are competitors directly. And it also seems like the

635
00:30:59,200 --> 00:31:02,640
Speaker 2: judges are hard on Tanya because she doesn't quite fit

636
00:31:02,680 --> 00:31:04,000
Speaker 2: that elegant mold of.

637
00:31:03,960 --> 00:31:05,520
Speaker 1: What a figure skater's supposed to be.

638
00:31:06,160 --> 00:31:08,320
Speaker 2: There's a lot of it's so fucked up, Like the

639
00:31:08,360 --> 00:31:10,880
Speaker 2: amount of the stuff I've been doing researching this makes

640
00:31:10,880 --> 00:31:13,960
Speaker 2: me like angry. There's a lot of wiggle room and

641
00:31:14,000 --> 00:31:17,680
Speaker 2: subjectivity in scoring ice skating, and it's fair to say

642
00:31:17,720 --> 00:31:20,160
Speaker 2: that some of that subjectivity comes into play when the

643
00:31:20,280 --> 00:31:23,920
Speaker 2: judges look at Tanya. For instance, she's criticized by a

644
00:31:24,000 --> 00:31:27,360
Speaker 2: judge for her costume that she made herself because she

645
00:31:27,400 --> 00:31:31,840
Speaker 2: can't afford the five thousand dollars one time, you know,

646
00:31:32,000 --> 00:31:34,160
Speaker 2: competition outfit. It's that sort of thing.

647
00:31:34,400 --> 00:31:36,720
Speaker 1: But she also does seem like a kind of rebel

648
00:31:36,720 --> 00:31:38,760
Speaker 1: where she'll pick music. She's like she I skated's a

649
00:31:38,760 --> 00:31:41,520
Speaker 1: wild thing and just like rock and roll, she'll do

650
00:31:41,600 --> 00:31:42,240
Speaker 1: and like they.

651
00:31:42,080 --> 00:31:44,400
Speaker 2: Don't fucking like that. Yeah, And so the scores are

652
00:31:44,400 --> 00:31:47,680
Speaker 2: not technical completely, they're also just completely subjective.

653
00:31:47,760 --> 00:31:50,440
Speaker 1: And I think there was a time where we all

654
00:31:50,480 --> 00:31:53,920
Speaker 1: believed it was objective and so fair and all about

655
00:31:53,960 --> 00:31:56,320
Speaker 1: scoring or whatever. And then it's like and then if

656
00:31:56,360 --> 00:31:59,200
Speaker 1: you tracked in any way the Williams sisters coming into

657
00:31:59,320 --> 00:32:02,400
Speaker 1: tennis and the way there was always a problem and

658
00:32:02,400 --> 00:32:04,600
Speaker 1: it was always a thing, and just like, yeah, there's

659
00:32:04,640 --> 00:32:07,280
Speaker 1: a lot of people in place there that are making,

660
00:32:07,480 --> 00:32:10,600
Speaker 1: that are in charge of decision making and in charge

661
00:32:10,640 --> 00:32:13,560
Speaker 1: of like the culture totally they agreed upon culture.

662
00:32:13,680 --> 00:32:16,800
Speaker 2: Like the deck is stacked against you. Yeah, I mean

663
00:32:16,880 --> 00:32:19,440
Speaker 2: it's fucked up. And so while Tanya has to scrap up.

664
00:32:19,960 --> 00:32:20,840
Speaker 2: So while Tanya has.

665
00:32:20,720 --> 00:32:22,120
Speaker 1: To scrap, scray up straight up.

666
00:32:24,040 --> 00:32:26,920
Speaker 2: And so while Tanya has to scrap for everything she gets,

667
00:32:27,000 --> 00:32:30,520
Speaker 2: people just seem to want to give Nancy things. Theira

668
00:32:30,640 --> 00:32:34,240
Speaker 2: Wang starts designing her costumes because she's such a fan,

669
00:32:34,920 --> 00:32:38,240
Speaker 2: she gets lucrative endorsement deals. I totally remember the Campbell's

670
00:32:38,240 --> 00:32:39,520
Speaker 2: soup commercial to you.

671
00:32:39,640 --> 00:32:42,320
Speaker 1: Oh, when she was like she's actually on the ice. No,

672
00:32:42,440 --> 00:32:45,400
Speaker 1: She's like sipping, closing her eyes and sipping.

673
00:32:45,360 --> 00:32:48,040
Speaker 2: Some chicken noodle soup off the ice because she's cold,

674
00:32:48,160 --> 00:32:50,200
Speaker 2: you know, it's it's cold on the ice, and she

675
00:32:50,400 --> 00:32:51,200
Speaker 2: just closes her eyes.

676
00:32:51,560 --> 00:32:53,960
Speaker 1: I mean, she really did look like any girl that

677
00:32:53,960 --> 00:32:56,600
Speaker 1: would be in seventeen magazine totally, So it was like

678
00:32:56,720 --> 00:32:59,360
Speaker 1: she had it all kind of there anyway. Yeah, and

679
00:32:59,400 --> 00:33:02,080
Speaker 1: I just I just remember her high pony, Yes, the

680
00:33:02,080 --> 00:33:04,479
Speaker 1: curly hair of the high pony. She was really pretty.

681
00:33:04,960 --> 00:33:07,400
Speaker 2: And I think that they also liked that she wasn't

682
00:33:07,600 --> 00:33:10,920
Speaker 2: It's such a contradiction. They liked that she wasn't this wealthy,

683
00:33:11,400 --> 00:33:15,239
Speaker 2: you know, wasp who was like a princess. They liked

684
00:33:15,240 --> 00:33:18,320
Speaker 2: that she was from lower but not Tanya's. You know

685
00:33:18,360 --> 00:33:20,160
Speaker 2: what I mean, you can do that, but you can't

686
00:33:20,160 --> 00:33:20,800
Speaker 2: do it this way.

687
00:33:20,960 --> 00:33:23,800
Speaker 1: You can be from the lower classes, but you have

688
00:33:23,880 --> 00:33:26,600
Speaker 1: to be pretty while you do it, and humble. You can't.

689
00:33:26,600 --> 00:33:28,480
Speaker 1: You have to be thin, thin, and you have to

690
00:33:28,520 --> 00:33:30,959
Speaker 1: be humble about it and not like I think that

691
00:33:31,000 --> 00:33:32,000
Speaker 1: you are owed anything.

692
00:33:32,080 --> 00:33:34,880
Speaker 2: It's yeah, it's just such a contradiction. She gets some

693
00:33:35,000 --> 00:33:39,280
Speaker 2: endorsements free bok. So when people tell this story, there's

694
00:33:39,280 --> 00:33:42,160
Speaker 2: always this focus on Nancy being the beautiful ice princess

695
00:33:42,600 --> 00:33:45,640
Speaker 2: and Tanya being the more ugly duckling with bad costumes

696
00:33:45,680 --> 00:33:48,480
Speaker 2: and bad hair. It does seem like they're compared a lot.

697
00:33:48,760 --> 00:33:52,000
Speaker 2: They're kind of each other's biggest competitors, but it doesn't

698
00:33:52,040 --> 00:33:55,960
Speaker 2: seem like they have any animosity towards each other. And

699
00:33:56,280 --> 00:33:59,680
Speaker 2: Nancy's doing nothing to antagonize Tanya. There's like that story

700
00:33:59,760 --> 00:34:01,840
Speaker 2: is over blown that they have like a feud, because

701
00:34:01,840 --> 00:34:05,080
Speaker 2: it's not even so. So, when Tanya's fifteen years old,

702
00:34:05,200 --> 00:34:10,360
Speaker 2: she meets a seventeen year old mustachio dude name Jeff Galully.

703
00:34:10,800 --> 00:34:12,520
Speaker 2: He's played by Sebastian.

704
00:34:12,040 --> 00:34:16,080
Speaker 1: Stan yes, a classic classic, and they fall in love.

705
00:34:16,440 --> 00:34:19,680
Speaker 2: It's her first ever boyfriend because she's all she does

706
00:34:19,760 --> 00:34:20,880
Speaker 2: is skate, yes.

707
00:34:20,800 --> 00:34:23,160
Speaker 1: You know, and get yelled at by her mother, right, and.

708
00:34:23,080 --> 00:34:25,160
Speaker 2: She had dropped out of high school so she could skate,

709
00:34:25,320 --> 00:34:27,560
Speaker 2: like there's just nothing else in her life. So she

710
00:34:27,760 --> 00:34:29,799
Speaker 2: meets this older guy and he has a car and

711
00:34:29,840 --> 00:34:32,960
Speaker 2: he's a job and she's like smitten completely by him immediately.

712
00:34:33,080 --> 00:34:35,880
Speaker 1: Also, when you're fifteen, sorry to interrupt, but when you're fifteen,

713
00:34:36,200 --> 00:34:37,960
Speaker 1: doesn't it feel like that's when you fall in love?

714
00:34:38,000 --> 00:34:40,600
Speaker 1: The hardest of your whole life. My god, like you

715
00:34:40,719 --> 00:34:45,000
Speaker 1: kind of truly lose your mind, the hormones, the like

716
00:34:45,480 --> 00:34:49,000
Speaker 1: everything that is. Oh god, no, it's it's bad. It's

717
00:34:49,000 --> 00:34:49,439
Speaker 1: so bad.

718
00:34:49,520 --> 00:34:51,759
Speaker 2: It's like so crushing because you think it's the most

719
00:34:51,800 --> 00:34:53,520
Speaker 2: important thing, and it is the most important thing in

720
00:34:53,560 --> 00:34:54,440
Speaker 2: the world at that moment.

721
00:34:54,600 --> 00:34:56,560
Speaker 1: But it's the most important thing that you're doing with

722
00:34:56,719 --> 00:35:01,319
Speaker 1: Jeff Galulli, so and no one can convince you otherwise, right, Yeah,

723
00:35:01,360 --> 00:35:04,120
Speaker 1: my god. Yeah, it's so hard to be a teenager.

724
00:35:04,400 --> 00:35:06,279
Speaker 1: It is. It's the world. It's so bad. You could

725
00:35:06,280 --> 00:35:08,120
Speaker 1: not pay me to be a fucking teenager. Oh my god.

726
00:35:08,200 --> 00:35:10,760
Speaker 2: Now the two move in together when Tanya's just seventeen

727
00:35:10,840 --> 00:35:12,960
Speaker 2: years old, and the way she tells the story, she

728
00:35:13,160 --> 00:35:15,080
Speaker 2: was pretty much just desperate to get out of her

729
00:35:15,080 --> 00:35:17,960
Speaker 2: mom's house and this kind of seemed like the only way.

730
00:35:18,200 --> 00:35:18,399
Speaker 1: Yeah.

731
00:35:18,680 --> 00:35:21,479
Speaker 2: They get married in nineteen ninety when Tanya's twenty years old,

732
00:35:21,480 --> 00:35:23,640
Speaker 2: and for a while, Jeff makes enough money to support

733
00:35:23,680 --> 00:35:26,879
Speaker 2: them while Tanya keeps skating and they're hoping she'll get

734
00:35:26,880 --> 00:35:31,600
Speaker 2: those endorsement deals. Jeff is abusive, though allegedly, which Tanya

735
00:35:31,640 --> 00:35:35,080
Speaker 2: will later discuss. The relationship will always be rocky and

736
00:35:35,160 --> 00:35:38,640
Speaker 2: on and off, and like basically everything in Tanya's life

737
00:35:38,680 --> 00:35:42,200
Speaker 2: pretty unstable. The way Tanya describes it, Jeff was quote

738
00:35:42,320 --> 00:35:44,799
Speaker 2: always saying the right things to get me back, and

739
00:35:44,840 --> 00:35:46,960
Speaker 2: I'd be stupid enough to go back and get beat

740
00:35:47,040 --> 00:35:49,600
Speaker 2: up again. And they show this a eye Tanya, and

741
00:35:49,640 --> 00:35:51,839
Speaker 2: it's just it's just Yeah, it's so dark.

742
00:35:52,000 --> 00:35:55,560
Speaker 1: But also she's not stupid. This is her life, Like,

743
00:35:56,040 --> 00:35:59,000
Speaker 1: this is the way. If that's been the pattern in

744
00:35:59,000 --> 00:36:01,160
Speaker 1: your life, yeah, you continue that pattern.

745
00:36:01,239 --> 00:36:04,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, she's not a choice. She would say, my mom

746
00:36:04,239 --> 00:36:07,200
Speaker 2: loved me and she hit me. Yeah, he said he

747
00:36:07,239 --> 00:36:10,400
Speaker 2: loved me and he hit me. Like that's what you learned. Yeah,

748
00:36:10,440 --> 00:36:12,120
Speaker 2: it's really sad and there's not really any like she

749
00:36:12,160 --> 00:36:14,320
Speaker 2: doesn't see any other options in her life.

750
00:36:14,360 --> 00:36:16,040
Speaker 1: It's really fucking sad. Okay.

751
00:36:16,040 --> 00:36:18,640
Speaker 2: So yeah, it does seem like she kind of internalizes

752
00:36:19,360 --> 00:36:23,400
Speaker 2: this abuse and is kind of a victim blaming herself

753
00:36:23,480 --> 00:36:23,759
Speaker 2: for it.

754
00:36:24,280 --> 00:36:24,440
Speaker 1: Yea.

755
00:36:24,719 --> 00:36:27,120
Speaker 2: So it's not an excuse for her behavior everything that

756
00:36:27,120 --> 00:36:30,080
Speaker 2: happens to her, but it is context, which I think

757
00:36:30,160 --> 00:36:32,640
Speaker 2: is important. And so while all this is going on,

758
00:36:32,760 --> 00:36:35,680
Speaker 2: Nancy's living the way she always has, closely supported by

759
00:36:35,680 --> 00:36:38,160
Speaker 2: her family, stayed in the same hotel room as her

760
00:36:38,200 --> 00:36:41,120
Speaker 2: parents at competitions. She lives with them, and she often

761
00:36:41,160 --> 00:36:43,319
Speaker 2: describes her mother as her best friend, which like, what

762
00:36:43,400 --> 00:36:45,800
Speaker 2: a fucking privilege to have that in your life?

763
00:36:45,920 --> 00:36:48,440
Speaker 1: Do you want to know one of my earliest jokes, Yeah,

764
00:36:48,600 --> 00:36:51,319
Speaker 1: it was based on something some famous person I had said,

765
00:36:51,360 --> 00:36:54,799
Speaker 1: and really, my mother's my best friend. And I said, mom,

766
00:36:54,840 --> 00:36:57,000
Speaker 1: you're my best friend. And my mom went, well, you're

767
00:36:57,040 --> 00:37:00,520
Speaker 1: not my best friend, which literally she did. I couldn't

768
00:37:00,520 --> 00:37:03,280
Speaker 1: see that, just like, god damn.

769
00:37:03,320 --> 00:37:05,759
Speaker 2: It's like she's meant it in like a tough love way,

770
00:37:05,880 --> 00:37:07,320
Speaker 2: like I'm your mother, not your friend.

771
00:37:07,480 --> 00:37:10,160
Speaker 1: She meant it like no one's best friend should be

772
00:37:10,239 --> 00:37:13,440
Speaker 1: their mother. That's weird. Don't act like that. You don't

773
00:37:13,440 --> 00:37:15,240
Speaker 1: get another best friend totally.

774
00:37:19,080 --> 00:37:22,800
Speaker 2: So, during the year after her marriage to Jeff, Tanya's

775
00:37:22,840 --> 00:37:25,880
Speaker 2: doing her best skating of her life. It's nineteen ninety

776
00:37:25,880 --> 00:37:28,480
Speaker 2: one and Tanya becomes the first American woman to land

777
00:37:28,520 --> 00:37:32,879
Speaker 2: a triple axel in competition at the United States Championship,

778
00:37:33,200 --> 00:37:36,239
Speaker 2: which is fucking huge. The triple axel has been this

779
00:37:36,360 --> 00:37:40,640
Speaker 2: white whale for female skaters figure skaters because it involves

780
00:37:41,160 --> 00:37:45,319
Speaker 2: launching yourself while facing forward, rotating three and a half

781
00:37:45,320 --> 00:37:48,560
Speaker 2: times and then landing facing backwards, and it takes a

782
00:37:48,640 --> 00:37:51,920
Speaker 2: huge amount of strength to get the necessary height to

783
00:37:52,000 --> 00:37:53,880
Speaker 2: stay up there that long. I mean, it is like

784
00:37:54,400 --> 00:37:56,160
Speaker 2: not for the faint of heart. People don't even try

785
00:37:56,200 --> 00:37:58,799
Speaker 2: it because it will be you will be hurt from

786
00:37:58,840 --> 00:37:59,160
Speaker 2: doing it.

787
00:37:59,160 --> 00:38:01,960
Speaker 1: You eat ice, as they say, exactly, just kidding on it.

788
00:38:02,200 --> 00:38:04,160
Speaker 1: Don't say that sounds right.

789
00:38:04,680 --> 00:38:08,520
Speaker 2: Up until now, a Japanese skater name Midori Eto has

790
00:38:08,560 --> 00:38:11,640
Speaker 2: been the only woman in the world to execute it

791
00:38:12,120 --> 00:38:13,480
Speaker 2: until Tanya.

792
00:38:13,160 --> 00:38:15,759
Speaker 1: As you said that, I knew, I've heard of Madori Eto,

793
00:38:15,840 --> 00:38:18,400
Speaker 1: and I'm like, how much ice skating did I? Yeah,

794
00:38:18,760 --> 00:38:21,959
Speaker 1: I guess it was just the Olympics. They were big. Yeah,

795
00:38:22,040 --> 00:38:23,880
Speaker 1: it was really big, and it was like in People

796
00:38:23,960 --> 00:38:25,120
Speaker 1: magazine and stuff.

797
00:38:24,880 --> 00:38:28,160
Speaker 2: Exactly like we were obsessed with the I guess our

798
00:38:28,239 --> 00:38:30,360
Speaker 2: children still obsessed with the Olympics.

799
00:38:30,400 --> 00:38:32,319
Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't either, but we fucking were.

800
00:38:32,520 --> 00:38:35,279
Speaker 1: Let's call the child hot line and see are there

801
00:38:35,320 --> 00:38:38,400
Speaker 1: any children guys, probably like roadblocks.

802
00:38:38,560 --> 00:38:42,239
Speaker 2: This is also where her athleticism and her thighs and

803
00:38:42,320 --> 00:38:45,160
Speaker 2: her muscle came into play, Like you can't be a

804
00:38:45,160 --> 00:38:49,080
Speaker 2: waif and pull off something that no one else can

805
00:38:49,120 --> 00:38:50,680
Speaker 2: do in this sport. Yeah, you know what I mean,

806
00:38:50,719 --> 00:38:53,720
Speaker 2: but they don't. They won't, Like the people don't think

807
00:38:53,760 --> 00:38:56,840
Speaker 2: that it's an athletic sport. They forget that ice skating

808
00:38:56,920 --> 00:39:00,640
Speaker 2: is athletic, and they want a pretty wayfee.

809
00:39:00,920 --> 00:39:03,960
Speaker 1: Everything's supposed to be a goddamn beauty contest, right when

810
00:39:04,000 --> 00:39:07,120
Speaker 1: women are participating that all of that comes in and

811
00:39:07,160 --> 00:39:09,680
Speaker 1: you have to suddenly talk about that all the time.

812
00:39:09,560 --> 00:39:12,279
Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, it's just the whole thing. It's because of

813
00:39:12,280 --> 00:39:16,080
Speaker 2: her strength, So fuck you to everyone back then stand

814
00:39:16,120 --> 00:39:18,040
Speaker 2: by that also nineteen ninety four.

815
00:39:18,160 --> 00:39:20,919
Speaker 1: It's just so telling. It's like she was clearly groundbreaking.

816
00:39:21,080 --> 00:39:24,200
Speaker 1: She had you have to look different to do something different,

817
00:39:24,600 --> 00:39:26,960
Speaker 1: like obviously you need the muscles to get up there.

818
00:39:27,080 --> 00:39:29,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's like she could try to beat Nancy

819
00:39:29,400 --> 00:39:31,920
Speaker 2: at her own game, but that wasn't her style. And

820
00:39:31,960 --> 00:39:33,239
Speaker 2: the reason she was one of the best in the

821
00:39:33,239 --> 00:39:35,960
Speaker 2: world is because she had her own style and she was,

822
00:39:36,160 --> 00:39:38,880
Speaker 2: you know, doing new, exciting things.

823
00:39:39,120 --> 00:39:39,960
Speaker 1: It's kind of almost like.

824
00:39:39,920 --> 00:39:41,839
Speaker 2: They shouldn't have been in competition with each other because

825
00:39:41,840 --> 00:39:43,960
Speaker 2: they were both doing something completely different. Yeah, but they

826
00:39:44,000 --> 00:39:47,160
Speaker 2: were so Tanya's triple axel wins her the United States

827
00:39:47,280 --> 00:39:50,440
Speaker 2: championship and sends her to the nineteen ninety two Olympics

828
00:39:50,680 --> 00:39:54,759
Speaker 2: in Albertville, France. I love it there and Nancy also

829
00:39:54,800 --> 00:39:57,239
Speaker 2: competes there. But between nineteen ninety one and nineteen eighty two,

830
00:39:57,320 --> 00:39:59,600
Speaker 2: Tana seems to lose the ability.

831
00:39:59,160 --> 00:40:01,000
Speaker 1: To land that triple axel.

832
00:40:01,800 --> 00:40:04,759
Speaker 2: She falters in some competitions, and it seems like her

833
00:40:04,800 --> 00:40:07,799
Speaker 2: life is just so chaotic. I can't imagine she's getting

834
00:40:07,800 --> 00:40:10,480
Speaker 2: a lot of sleep, you know, And that's that takes

835
00:40:10,520 --> 00:40:13,480
Speaker 2: practice all day if you want, like for the Olympics,

836
00:40:13,800 --> 00:40:16,920
Speaker 2: you don't happen. The life outside of that I can't imagine.

837
00:40:16,480 --> 00:40:19,239
Speaker 1: Right, And also, I mean, I bet you the way

838
00:40:19,320 --> 00:40:21,759
Speaker 1: people do it now, where it's like you're eating certain things,

839
00:40:22,120 --> 00:40:25,560
Speaker 1: training certain times, Oh you're doing She's smoking cigarettes, you know,

840
00:40:25,680 --> 00:40:28,440
Speaker 1: She's like she finds a camaro somewhere to lean on

841
00:40:28,680 --> 00:40:31,640
Speaker 1: and just smokes that safe drinking beer, smoking cigarettes, hang

842
00:40:31,680 --> 00:40:34,040
Speaker 1: out with your fucking husband, who, like you have this

843
00:40:34,080 --> 00:40:38,120
Speaker 1: tumultuous relationship with It's just not conducive to winning an

844
00:40:38,120 --> 00:40:40,640
Speaker 1: Olympic fucking medal. Probably not right.

845
00:40:41,280 --> 00:40:44,399
Speaker 2: I mean, I'm just podcasting and I'm fucking exhausted from

846
00:40:44,400 --> 00:40:46,520
Speaker 2: like sleeping eight hours some muscles.

847
00:40:47,600 --> 00:40:50,560
Speaker 1: I wrote it all weekend and my muscles are killing

848
00:40:50,600 --> 00:40:54,880
Speaker 1: the same. It hurts. It is good at and I

849
00:40:55,000 --> 00:40:57,799
Speaker 1: have big thighs, and still I can't nail the triple axe.

850
00:40:57,840 --> 00:41:02,560
Speaker 2: Which Your lines are amazing, your grace and lines and

851
00:41:02,640 --> 00:41:04,560
Speaker 2: cheekbones are giving.

852
00:41:05,480 --> 00:41:08,080
Speaker 1: There you go. This is why I did tap dance,

853
00:41:08,239 --> 00:41:08,840
Speaker 1: not ballet.

854
00:41:09,160 --> 00:41:10,839
Speaker 2: I wanted to clop all over the place to make

855
00:41:10,840 --> 00:41:12,280
Speaker 2: as much fucking noise as possible.

856
00:41:12,360 --> 00:41:15,160
Speaker 1: That's right, That's why I pay.

857
00:41:17,040 --> 00:41:18,680
Speaker 2: My mom had to make me stop tap dancing down

858
00:41:18,680 --> 00:41:19,760
Speaker 2: the grocery store aisles.

859
00:41:19,920 --> 00:41:25,320
Speaker 1: Stop tap dancing. That's what you did too, right, or

860
00:41:25,360 --> 00:41:27,239
Speaker 1: your home would grab you and say yeah. She would

861
00:41:27,320 --> 00:41:29,480
Speaker 1: just grab me by the neck and be like, what

862
00:41:29,520 --> 00:41:33,280
Speaker 1: do we need to don't wonder off, which meant stop

863
00:41:33,360 --> 00:41:35,560
Speaker 1: having temper tantrums everywhere you go. I would just you'd

864
00:41:35,560 --> 00:41:37,359
Speaker 1: always know where I was because I was clopping down

865
00:41:37,400 --> 00:41:43,080
Speaker 1: the Okay, we're creating so much work for the editors

866
00:41:43,120 --> 00:41:44,000
Speaker 1: in this episode.

867
00:41:44,680 --> 00:41:46,840
Speaker 2: We're showing them what it's like to be Tanya Harding

868
00:41:46,880 --> 00:41:48,200
Speaker 2: and how chaotic life can be.

869
00:41:48,280 --> 00:41:50,480
Speaker 1: It's really hard, and we understand it. Yeah, but you

870
00:41:50,520 --> 00:41:53,000
Speaker 1: know what, leave it all in. We stand by our

871
00:41:53,040 --> 00:41:59,080
Speaker 1: words at it in Yeah, okay, everyone go on vacation, Okay,

872
00:41:59,280 --> 00:42:00,080
Speaker 1: stop it.

873
00:42:00,160 --> 00:42:03,000
Speaker 2: At the Olympics, Tanya tries and fails to land the jump,

874
00:42:03,360 --> 00:42:06,160
Speaker 2: which gotta suck, and it's just you can see. That's

875
00:42:06,160 --> 00:42:08,040
Speaker 2: the other thing too about her skating. You can see

876
00:42:08,040 --> 00:42:10,160
Speaker 2: it in her face when she wins and loses in

877
00:42:10,160 --> 00:42:12,760
Speaker 2: a way I don't think you're supposed to like show

878
00:42:12,840 --> 00:42:17,000
Speaker 2: that's right, but in a really like cool, powerful, prideful way. Yes,

879
00:42:17,080 --> 00:42:19,600
Speaker 2: that's awesome, Like she's cheering along with everyone.

880
00:42:19,719 --> 00:42:22,400
Speaker 1: She's leaving it all on the field exactly. Is that

881
00:42:22,480 --> 00:42:24,560
Speaker 1: the one when she couldn't land it where she had

882
00:42:24,560 --> 00:42:28,160
Speaker 1: the black velvet outfit on. I think so. I feel

883
00:42:28,160 --> 00:42:30,719
Speaker 1: like I watched one of these real times. Yeah, and

884
00:42:30,760 --> 00:42:33,040
Speaker 1: it was hard to watch, Okay.

885
00:42:33,400 --> 00:42:38,120
Speaker 2: Madori Eto lands hers and in the end, Christi Yamaguchi

886
00:42:38,160 --> 00:42:41,680
Speaker 2: still takes home the gold for America, Northern California girl,

887
00:42:42,360 --> 00:42:45,200
Speaker 2: Madori Eto takes silver for Japan, and Nancy gets the

888
00:42:45,200 --> 00:42:49,279
Speaker 2: bronze and Tanya's in fourth place. This would potentially be

889
00:42:49,320 --> 00:42:52,560
Speaker 2: where Tanya and Nancy's Olympic stories are over. They're twenty

890
00:42:52,560 --> 00:42:54,920
Speaker 2: two years old, and the next time the Olympics roll

891
00:42:54,960 --> 00:42:58,479
Speaker 2: around they'd basically maybe twenty six, they'd basically aged out

892
00:42:59,320 --> 00:43:02,520
Speaker 2: for Olympics. You'r skaters, so that was it, like fourth place,

893
00:43:02,640 --> 00:43:09,359
Speaker 2: You're done. But and this is so fateful fortuitous, they

894
00:43:09,400 --> 00:43:12,360
Speaker 2: get a once at a lifetime break because prior to

895
00:43:12,440 --> 00:43:15,799
Speaker 2: nineteen ninety four, the Summer and Winter Olympics happened in

896
00:43:15,840 --> 00:43:19,000
Speaker 2: the same year. After the nineteen ninety two Games, the

897
00:43:19,040 --> 00:43:21,840
Speaker 2: decision is made to stagger them and it's decided that

898
00:43:21,840 --> 00:43:25,680
Speaker 2: there will be another Winter Olympics in nineteen ninety four

899
00:43:26,400 --> 00:43:28,920
Speaker 2: and then the Summer Olympics in ninety six, so it

900
00:43:28,960 --> 00:43:31,400
Speaker 2: can be every four years. So they just like double

901
00:43:31,520 --> 00:43:33,680
Speaker 2: up on winter and they get to go back to

902
00:43:33,760 --> 00:43:34,920
Speaker 2: the fucking Olympics.

903
00:43:35,000 --> 00:43:38,040
Speaker 1: That is so weird. Yeah, and I feel like I

904
00:43:38,080 --> 00:43:40,040
Speaker 1: didn't know that as a detail of this story.

905
00:43:40,160 --> 00:43:42,160
Speaker 2: I didn't know that either. But I'm not as into

906
00:43:42,239 --> 00:43:46,480
Speaker 2: ice skating as you are. I think Jewish people don't

907
00:43:46,520 --> 00:43:48,440
Speaker 2: really we don't ice skate.

908
00:43:48,719 --> 00:43:51,600
Speaker 1: Why would we. I don't think I'm into it as

909
00:43:51,680 --> 00:43:53,799
Speaker 1: much as like I'm more of a It was such

910
00:43:53,840 --> 00:43:59,239
Speaker 1: a pulp culture situation. We had Dorothy Hammel, Peggy Flemett

911
00:43:59,239 --> 00:44:02,760
Speaker 1: like their names, yes, you know always so this gives

912
00:44:02,800 --> 00:44:05,799
Speaker 1: all the winter athletes the rare opportunity to compete in

913
00:44:05,840 --> 00:44:08,440
Speaker 1: another set of Olympic Games just two years later. Lucky.

914
00:44:08,600 --> 00:44:09,680
Speaker 1: So you thought you were done.

915
00:44:09,840 --> 00:44:12,320
Speaker 2: You'd practice for four years to get or you'd practice

916
00:44:12,360 --> 00:44:14,439
Speaker 2: so hard to get there, and now it's like, Okay,

917
00:44:14,480 --> 00:44:15,760
Speaker 2: guess what you're doing for the next.

918
00:44:15,520 --> 00:44:17,440
Speaker 1: Two years starting all over.

919
00:44:17,560 --> 00:44:21,640
Speaker 2: Right, So cut to two years later, let's just fucking yeah,

920
00:44:22,040 --> 00:44:24,600
Speaker 2: let's just let's just go. Nineteen ninety four, Tanya and

921
00:44:24,680 --> 00:44:27,880
Speaker 2: Nancy are back again, vying for spots on the next

922
00:44:27,920 --> 00:44:30,200
Speaker 2: Olympic team, so they still have to compete again to

923
00:44:30,239 --> 00:44:32,520
Speaker 2: be even beyond the team. In order to qualify for

924
00:44:32,560 --> 00:44:35,319
Speaker 2: the Olympics, the skaters will need to first compete at

925
00:44:35,320 --> 00:44:36,680
Speaker 2: the US Championships.

926
00:44:37,000 --> 00:44:37,959
Speaker 1: Do you want to know what it's called?

927
00:44:38,160 --> 00:44:42,520
Speaker 2: Yes, especially legs US. Did you're skating Championships? Yes, l

928
00:44:42,600 --> 00:44:45,719
Speaker 2: apostolate legs for those of you who are very young,

929
00:44:45,880 --> 00:44:47,280
Speaker 2: that's the pantyhose brand.

930
00:44:47,200 --> 00:44:49,600
Speaker 1: Pantyhose that used to come and plastic eggs. That's right,

931
00:44:49,680 --> 00:44:53,000
Speaker 1: like Easter eggs, but pantyhose. It was spelled legs, but

932
00:44:53,440 --> 00:44:57,759
Speaker 1: like legs legs apostrophe eggs, and it had its own

933
00:44:57,800 --> 00:45:02,600
Speaker 1: display where all of the eggs sat on individual little holders.

934
00:45:02,680 --> 00:45:05,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, before there was like you know, anime toys in

935
00:45:06,000 --> 00:45:08,279
Speaker 2: little bubble, there was fucking pantyhouse, and we made our

936
00:45:08,280 --> 00:45:10,279
Speaker 2: moms give us the fucking container when they were done

937
00:45:10,320 --> 00:45:10,560
Speaker 2: with them.

938
00:45:10,640 --> 00:45:11,080
Speaker 1: That's right.

939
00:45:11,160 --> 00:45:13,879
Speaker 2: Every time legs, like all our barbie shoes are in there.

940
00:45:14,040 --> 00:45:15,719
Speaker 1: It's such a brilliant way to be like, do you

941
00:45:15,760 --> 00:45:18,160
Speaker 1: want these pantyhouse at all? Look like this? Or do

942
00:45:18,200 --> 00:45:21,239
Speaker 1: you want some in eggs? You want their legs? Why

943
00:45:21,239 --> 00:45:24,280
Speaker 1: don't we put more stuff in eggs? Gotta start stopped

944
00:45:26,719 --> 00:45:27,400
Speaker 1: kinder eggs.

945
00:45:27,760 --> 00:45:31,759
Speaker 2: Another one, that's exactly good job. Okay, So in this

946
00:45:31,880 --> 00:45:35,160
Speaker 2: during this time two years, Nancy has gotten additional endorsements

947
00:45:35,400 --> 00:45:38,960
Speaker 2: and Tanya has pretty much gotten nothing. In nineteen ninety three,

948
00:45:38,960 --> 00:45:39,919
Speaker 2: she divorces Jeff.

949
00:45:39,960 --> 00:45:40,560
Speaker 1: But the way.

950
00:45:40,520 --> 00:45:42,239
Speaker 2: Tanya tells it, and this is fucked up and it

951
00:45:42,239 --> 00:45:45,879
Speaker 2: seems true, US figure skating authorities urge her to get

952
00:45:45,920 --> 00:45:48,640
Speaker 2: back together with him so that she can portray this

953
00:45:48,719 --> 00:45:51,400
Speaker 2: image of stability and traditionalism.

954
00:45:51,840 --> 00:45:54,680
Speaker 1: They're like, you can't be a divorced ice skater.

955
00:45:54,920 --> 00:45:58,040
Speaker 2: Go back to your abusive husband, otherwise you're not going

956
00:45:58,120 --> 00:46:00,640
Speaker 2: to win the thing that you've been devoted your entire

957
00:46:00,680 --> 00:46:01,440
Speaker 2: fucking life too.

958
00:46:01,560 --> 00:46:03,600
Speaker 1: That makes me think, do you think they flipped out

959
00:46:03,600 --> 00:46:05,319
Speaker 1: when she married him in the first place because she

960
00:46:05,360 --> 00:46:06,400
Speaker 1: was only twenty.

961
00:46:06,239 --> 00:46:09,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm sure you've seen the videos. He just like

962
00:46:09,600 --> 00:46:10,600
Speaker 2: came with her all the shows.

963
00:46:10,640 --> 00:46:13,000
Speaker 1: He kind of had looked a little sketch with the

964
00:46:13,080 --> 00:46:16,600
Speaker 1: mustache and yeah, And it's certainly within the realm of

965
00:46:16,640 --> 00:46:19,760
Speaker 1: possibility that they said that for such an image focused sport,

966
00:46:19,800 --> 00:46:23,760
Speaker 1: because only in two thousand and four were women allowed

967
00:46:23,800 --> 00:46:28,959
Speaker 1: to compete in pants.

968
00:46:26,880 --> 00:46:29,520
Speaker 2: Like the leggings. They couldn't wear leggings, they had to

969
00:46:29,520 --> 00:46:33,200
Speaker 2: wear fucking legs, legs. A lot of them still won't

970
00:46:33,200 --> 00:46:35,080
Speaker 2: wear them for fear of getting dinged by the judges

971
00:46:35,080 --> 00:46:37,640
Speaker 2: because costume is part of your score, and so they

972
00:46:37,680 --> 00:46:40,759
Speaker 2: just don't fucking like the color or the cut. It's

973
00:46:40,760 --> 00:46:42,480
Speaker 2: a personal preference, not a fucking.

974
00:46:42,480 --> 00:46:46,440
Speaker 1: It's very dance moms coated, like just always going to

975
00:46:46,480 --> 00:46:49,000
Speaker 1: be haunted by these people that are behind a table,

976
00:46:49,360 --> 00:46:51,399
Speaker 1: you know, waiting to put up a number, and it's

977
00:46:51,440 --> 00:46:53,359
Speaker 1: like those are the they in your mind where it's

978
00:46:53,360 --> 00:46:57,640
Speaker 1: like they say you shouldn't do it that way. It's

979
00:46:57,760 --> 00:47:02,200
Speaker 1: dance moms, and it's pageants out pageants, which is gross.

980
00:47:02,239 --> 00:47:07,439
Speaker 1: So gross. Yeah, okay, we're just insulting the entire ice

981
00:47:07,440 --> 00:47:12,680
Speaker 1: skate don't like anything. Yeah also ice, fuck ice. I

982
00:47:13,160 --> 00:47:15,680
Speaker 1: meant it for the drink. But can we leave fuck ice?

983
00:47:16,480 --> 00:47:19,080
Speaker 1: Well yeah for sure, right like crushed or do you

984
00:47:19,120 --> 00:47:21,799
Speaker 1: like cubes? Okay, stop it. That brings us back to

985
00:47:22,400 --> 00:47:26,759
Speaker 1: your favorite day. January sixth, nineteen ninety four. In the

986
00:47:26,760 --> 00:47:29,480
Speaker 1: wake of the attack, Nancy had suffered so they were

987
00:47:29,480 --> 00:47:33,720
Speaker 1: aiming for her knee, but they missed and she suffered

988
00:47:33,719 --> 00:47:38,000
Speaker 1: a severe bone bruise and the lower right thigh was

989
00:47:38,080 --> 00:47:41,360
Speaker 1: what ended up getting hit. But they did purposely go

990
00:47:41,600 --> 00:47:45,400
Speaker 1: for her standing leg, so when she did twirls, she

991
00:47:45,480 --> 00:47:47,560
Speaker 1: did it on the leg that they hit, because she

992
00:47:47,600 --> 00:47:50,000
Speaker 1: could have kept going maybe if she didn't have to

993
00:47:50,040 --> 00:47:52,399
Speaker 1: like favor that leg, right, But so they purposely used

994
00:47:52,440 --> 00:47:54,120
Speaker 1: her her weight bearing leg.

995
00:47:54,000 --> 00:47:58,400
Speaker 2: Thank you, And it was hit with a telescopic baton.

996
00:47:58,800 --> 00:48:00,000
Speaker 2: Oh so like a police baton.

997
00:48:00,280 --> 00:48:06,319
Speaker 1: But Jesus, like wappen? I mean that's so traumatizing. Why why?

998
00:48:07,520 --> 00:48:09,279
Speaker 1: And then her dad picks her up and carries her

999
00:48:09,320 --> 00:48:13,680
Speaker 1: into the locker room. He had to take a fourth job. Jesus,

1000
00:48:13,800 --> 00:48:16,480
Speaker 1: crisis is so much worse than I even understood it

1001
00:48:16,520 --> 00:48:17,200
Speaker 1: to be. I know.

1002
00:48:17,320 --> 00:48:19,760
Speaker 2: But her knee is not broken, which is a miracle.

1003
00:48:19,840 --> 00:48:22,839
Speaker 2: So she can't skate in the US Championships, which will

1004
00:48:23,239 --> 00:48:25,920
Speaker 2: determine who's going to go to the Olympics. So without

1005
00:48:26,000 --> 00:48:31,440
Speaker 2: Nancy competing, Tanya places first, and a baby Michelle Kwan

1006
00:48:32,760 --> 00:48:35,560
Speaker 2: thirteen at the time, and I mean she looks like

1007
00:48:35,600 --> 00:48:39,920
Speaker 2: a little baby, she places second. So the two teams,

1008
00:48:40,040 --> 00:48:43,160
Speaker 2: I know, Jesus, so the two of them are technically

1009
00:48:43,200 --> 00:48:46,480
Speaker 2: who were supposed to go represent the US at the Olympics.

1010
00:48:46,880 --> 00:48:52,520
Speaker 2: The committee decides to bump Michelle Kwan. They say to her, look,

1011
00:48:52,680 --> 00:48:57,200
Speaker 2: you're thirteen, you have other chances, Nancy doesn't.

1012
00:48:58,040 --> 00:48:59,280
Speaker 1: How do you feel about us?

1013
00:48:59,600 --> 00:49:04,320
Speaker 2: Like you guys out Nancy had couldn't compete, And Michelle

1014
00:49:04,320 --> 00:49:08,080
Speaker 2: fucking Kwan said okay, Like how graceful is that of her?

1015
00:49:08,120 --> 00:49:11,280
Speaker 1: And like fucking cool? Holy shit, Yeah, as a thirteen

1016
00:49:11,360 --> 00:49:16,839
Speaker 1: year old, you're like, no, fucking you, John, you get

1017
00:49:16,840 --> 00:49:19,480
Speaker 1: the judges over here. Oh this fuck you? Fuck you

1018
00:49:19,600 --> 00:49:23,799
Speaker 1: I am it's seventh grade. You're cool? Fuck you? Oh

1019
00:49:23,880 --> 00:49:26,200
Speaker 1: my god, what a generous thing she did.

1020
00:49:26,239 --> 00:49:28,239
Speaker 2: Totally, I mean, even if she didn't want to it's

1021
00:49:28,360 --> 00:49:30,880
Speaker 2: like amazing, yeah, and like that had just happened Nancy,

1022
00:49:30,920 --> 00:49:33,360
Speaker 2: And we cannot tell you how big of a story

1023
00:49:33,400 --> 00:49:36,240
Speaker 2: this was at the time. This was the biggest story

1024
00:49:36,360 --> 00:49:39,279
Speaker 2: in the US and maybe in the world for a while. Yes,

1025
00:49:40,400 --> 00:49:42,680
Speaker 2: I'm angry about that big it was. So they decided

1026
00:49:42,719 --> 00:49:45,759
Speaker 2: to send Nancy anyway, even though she didn't compete, And

1027
00:49:45,800 --> 00:49:47,960
Speaker 2: so this competition has come to an end. Tanya and

1028
00:49:48,040 --> 00:49:50,600
Speaker 2: Nancy are going to the Olympics. But the frenzy to

1029
00:49:50,600 --> 00:49:54,319
Speaker 2: figure out who attacked Nancy heats up, and I mean,

1030
00:49:54,400 --> 00:49:56,840
Speaker 2: I can't remember if we all knew it was we knew,

1031
00:49:56,880 --> 00:49:59,080
Speaker 2: we knew who didn't know.

1032
00:49:59,600 --> 00:50:02,479
Speaker 1: I think that well, they just had to get the proof. Yeah,

1033
00:50:02,520 --> 00:50:05,680
Speaker 1: but I feel like what's unfair and really would have

1034
00:50:05,680 --> 00:50:09,759
Speaker 1: been unfair if she wasn't guilty. Tanya just had that

1035
00:50:09,880 --> 00:50:11,719
Speaker 1: look of a girl that like, you don't want to

1036
00:50:11,760 --> 00:50:14,040
Speaker 1: cross her, and then she finds you in the movie

1037
00:50:14,040 --> 00:50:16,719
Speaker 1: theater parking lot, you know. So then it was clearly

1038
00:50:16,800 --> 00:50:19,360
Speaker 1: all those adults were just acting like, we know what happened,

1039
00:50:19,400 --> 00:50:21,640
Speaker 1: we can't prove it. We're going to continue as if

1040
00:50:21,680 --> 00:50:22,560
Speaker 1: that's what's going on.

1041
00:50:22,680 --> 00:50:26,200
Speaker 2: Totally so so shortly after the attack, the coin tv

1042
00:50:26,400 --> 00:50:29,200
Speaker 2: ko I n in Portland you know them well. The

1043
00:50:29,200 --> 00:50:35,880
Speaker 2: Portland station receives an anonymous letter claiming that Jeff, Tanya's husband, Tanya,

1044
00:50:35,960 --> 00:50:39,920
Speaker 2: and a team of Tanya's bodyguards were responsible for Nancy's injury.

1045
00:50:40,560 --> 00:50:43,080
Speaker 2: One of the producers at the station knows Tanya personally

1046
00:50:43,120 --> 00:50:45,640
Speaker 2: and calls her up about it, and she says, you

1047
00:50:45,680 --> 00:50:47,759
Speaker 2: can look at the letter, but you have to do

1048
00:50:47,760 --> 00:50:50,520
Speaker 2: an interview with me, Like she fucking.

1049
00:50:50,520 --> 00:50:51,600
Speaker 1: Did she write that letter?

1050
00:50:51,920 --> 00:50:53,799
Speaker 2: No? Oh oh no, She's like, you can see it.

1051
00:50:54,440 --> 00:50:55,840
Speaker 2: You can come to the station and see it, but

1052
00:50:55,880 --> 00:50:57,520
Speaker 2: only if you do an interview with me. It's like, oh,

1053
00:50:57,600 --> 00:50:59,800
Speaker 2: kind of like, got it all right, girl. So Tanya

1054
00:50:59,840 --> 00:51:02,319
Speaker 2: go on air on that station to refute the letter,

1055
00:51:02,840 --> 00:51:06,000
Speaker 2: and it's so fucking creepy. Jeff is sitting directly behind

1056
00:51:06,040 --> 00:51:08,640
Speaker 2: the interviewer and in the interview you can see him

1057
00:51:08,680 --> 00:51:11,399
Speaker 2: staring at her and you can she looks afraid, yeah,

1058
00:51:11,440 --> 00:51:13,560
Speaker 2: and you can kind of see her like, you know,

1059
00:51:14,160 --> 00:51:16,120
Speaker 2: look at him a couple times to get the right answer.

1060
00:51:16,680 --> 00:51:19,080
Speaker 2: And she claims it is only after this interview that

1061
00:51:19,160 --> 00:51:21,839
Speaker 2: she begins to get the inkling that Jeff was really

1062
00:51:21,840 --> 00:51:23,960
Speaker 2: behind the plot. And so this is the big question

1063
00:51:24,120 --> 00:51:26,880
Speaker 2: is what did Tanya know and when? And it's debated.

1064
00:51:27,520 --> 00:51:32,960
Speaker 2: There's no total proof either way. I think we generally

1065
00:51:33,840 --> 00:51:36,320
Speaker 2: assume she had something to do with it from the beginning.

1066
00:51:36,560 --> 00:51:40,640
Speaker 1: Allegedly, yes, I mean that's kind of the logical. Yeah,

1067
00:51:40,680 --> 00:51:43,280
Speaker 1: but then the idea of that your abusive a husband

1068
00:51:43,320 --> 00:51:45,080
Speaker 1: would do this and you didn't know he was going

1069
00:51:45,160 --> 00:51:46,600
Speaker 1: to do it is so awful.

1070
00:51:46,840 --> 00:51:49,120
Speaker 2: You can see how that would happen too. Like, that's

1071
00:51:49,120 --> 00:51:51,399
Speaker 2: what's so hard about the argument is like you could

1072
00:51:51,400 --> 00:51:56,040
Speaker 2: see him doing it without wanting to burden you, and

1073
00:51:56,160 --> 00:51:58,080
Speaker 2: like he's just going to do this thing that he

1074
00:51:58,160 --> 00:51:59,200
Speaker 2: thinks she might want.

1075
00:51:59,160 --> 00:52:01,080
Speaker 1: Or he's like he's the man and the provider and

1076
00:52:01,080 --> 00:52:02,920
Speaker 1: he's like, yeah, I took care of it for you.

1077
00:52:03,080 --> 00:52:06,280
Speaker 2: Tanya got a death threat before the Nancy Kerrigan thing happened.

1078
00:52:06,440 --> 00:52:09,200
Speaker 2: Oh and so that's what they were going to do initially,

1079
00:52:09,280 --> 00:52:11,360
Speaker 2: is just give Nancy a death threat and hope that

1080
00:52:11,400 --> 00:52:14,680
Speaker 2: maybe she doesn't compete. But then it became this thing,

1081
00:52:14,800 --> 00:52:17,399
Speaker 2: so she might have had nothing to do with it, hmm,

1082
00:52:17,640 --> 00:52:21,520
Speaker 2: I you know, allegedly allegedly. Okay, so the station hands

1083
00:52:21,560 --> 00:52:24,080
Speaker 2: over the letter of the FBI and it's quickly traced

1084
00:52:24,120 --> 00:52:25,960
Speaker 2: back to a friend of the father of one of

1085
00:52:26,200 --> 00:52:30,279
Speaker 2: Jeff's friends, a man named Sean Eckhart. And so this

1086
00:52:30,320 --> 00:52:33,640
Speaker 2: guy is played by the incredible Paul Walter Hauser.

1087
00:52:34,160 --> 00:52:35,560
Speaker 1: Do you know who that is? Yeah? I think so.

1088
00:52:35,760 --> 00:52:38,600
Speaker 2: He was the one in Blackbird who played the serial killer.

1089
00:52:38,719 --> 00:52:41,680
Speaker 2: He's such an incredible actor and he's so perfect a

1090
00:52:41,760 --> 00:52:46,120
Speaker 2: night Tanya. So he had actually worked as Tanya's bodyguard

1091
00:52:46,280 --> 00:52:48,200
Speaker 2: and had given interviews in the wake of the attack.

1092
00:52:48,239 --> 00:52:49,280
Speaker 1: He's just a complete idiot.

1093
00:52:49,560 --> 00:52:52,080
Speaker 2: He also privately tells lots of acquaintances that he was

1094
00:52:52,120 --> 00:52:54,480
Speaker 2: involved in it. He's like, he's bragging about it.

1095
00:52:54,640 --> 00:52:57,319
Speaker 1: Yeah. He thinks he's like this, you know, like a superhero,

1096
00:52:58,040 --> 00:52:59,759
Speaker 1: like a bad Yeah, and he's just not.

1097
00:53:00,160 --> 00:53:02,319
Speaker 2: Once the FBI gets to Sean, the whole plot is

1098
00:53:02,360 --> 00:53:05,319
Speaker 2: revealed fairly quickly. The FBI agents who interviewed him said quote,

1099
00:53:05,320 --> 00:53:08,280
Speaker 2: when Sean realized he was facing some fairly serious penalties,

1100
00:53:08,560 --> 00:53:13,000
Speaker 2: he folded like a cheap accordion. Sean signs a statement

1101
00:53:13,000 --> 00:53:15,000
Speaker 2: claiming that four men were involved in the plot and

1102
00:53:15,040 --> 00:53:17,560
Speaker 2: that the idea seemed to come from Jeff, the husband.

1103
00:53:17,920 --> 00:53:20,319
Speaker 2: Jeff asked Sean to hire a hit team of two

1104
00:53:20,320 --> 00:53:22,560
Speaker 2: other men to carry out the attack, and those two

1105
00:53:22,640 --> 00:53:26,440
Speaker 2: men are named Derek Smith and Shane stant And so

1106
00:53:26,560 --> 00:53:29,680
Speaker 2: basically they travel to Detroit, where Nancy is competing to

1107
00:53:29,760 --> 00:53:32,680
Speaker 2: be in the Olympics, and where they hit her. And

1108
00:53:32,800 --> 00:53:34,960
Speaker 2: all of this travel is charged to credit cards under

1109
00:53:35,000 --> 00:53:39,040
Speaker 2: their own names. I mean, when confronted with all the evidence,

1110
00:53:39,120 --> 00:53:42,160
Speaker 2: both men confess to the attack and plead guilty fairly quickly.

1111
00:53:42,320 --> 00:53:42,720
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1112
00:53:42,760 --> 00:53:44,879
Speaker 2: But over time, the men involved in the plot start

1113
00:53:45,000 --> 00:53:47,799
Speaker 2: changing their stories, saying that Tanya was involved and that

1114
00:53:47,840 --> 00:53:50,200
Speaker 2: she was in charge of the plot. So she kind

1115
00:53:50,239 --> 00:53:53,399
Speaker 2: of turns on Jeff, her now ex husband, and when

1116
00:53:53,440 --> 00:53:55,480
Speaker 2: he finds out, he turns on her too, and they

1117
00:53:55,520 --> 00:53:59,200
Speaker 2: all do. The only real evidence they find against Tanya

1118
00:53:59,440 --> 00:54:03,799
Speaker 2: is they find a scrap of paper with information in

1119
00:54:03,880 --> 00:54:08,399
Speaker 2: her handwriting allegedly about the rink and phone numbers for

1120
00:54:08,480 --> 00:54:11,239
Speaker 2: the rink where Nancy was practicing.

1121
00:54:11,320 --> 00:54:14,160
Speaker 1: Oh so it just looked really bad. Yeah, that isn't good. Yeah.

1122
00:54:14,200 --> 00:54:16,120
Speaker 2: And so while all this is going on, Tanya's still

1123
00:54:16,120 --> 00:54:17,320
Speaker 2: preparing for the Olympics.

1124
00:54:17,719 --> 00:54:19,560
Speaker 1: In the meantime, no.

1125
00:54:19,520 --> 00:54:22,800
Speaker 2: Stress push on through, yeah, which are scheduled to begin

1126
00:54:23,239 --> 00:54:26,560
Speaker 2: in what's it called Lily Hammer. Thank you Lily Hammer

1127
00:54:26,840 --> 00:54:30,040
Speaker 2: Lily Hammer, Norway, and Tanya still practices at the So

1128
00:54:30,120 --> 00:54:33,799
Speaker 2: Tanya's practicing at this rink in an open mall, and

1129
00:54:33,840 --> 00:54:36,879
Speaker 2: now she's the biggest villain in the US. And so

1130
00:54:37,200 --> 00:54:40,000
Speaker 2: as she's practicing and stressing out of the Olympics, she's

1131
00:54:40,040 --> 00:54:45,680
Speaker 2: being watched by every news station in the fucking galaxy

1132
00:54:45,800 --> 00:54:47,720
Speaker 2: and just like waiting for her to fall and fail

1133
00:54:47,840 --> 00:54:50,399
Speaker 2: and something wrong to happen so they can report about it. Yeah,

1134
00:54:50,440 --> 00:54:53,200
Speaker 2: it's just crazy. It's open to spectators, into the press.

1135
00:54:53,200 --> 00:54:56,960
Speaker 2: It's a madhouse. Even Diane Sawyer shows up ringside and

1136
00:54:57,080 --> 00:54:58,680
Speaker 2: just hangs out at the edge of the rink asking

1137
00:54:58,719 --> 00:54:59,960
Speaker 2: her questions.

1138
00:55:00,040 --> 00:55:02,480
Speaker 1: Lawyer went to the Clackamus mall. Yes, that's hilarious.

1139
00:55:02,520 --> 00:55:05,120
Speaker 2: She's like one of the most respected journalists of our

1140
00:55:05,160 --> 00:55:08,280
Speaker 2: time and should get out there. So this media frenzy

1141
00:55:08,280 --> 00:55:11,080
Speaker 2: follows her fucking everywhere over the course of six weeks

1142
00:55:11,160 --> 00:55:14,480
Speaker 2: leading up to the Olympics. Under questioning, Tanya confesses to

1143
00:55:14,560 --> 00:55:16,839
Speaker 2: learning about the plot after the fact. That's the only

1144
00:55:16,880 --> 00:55:20,160
Speaker 2: thing she ever admits to, and not alerting authorities as

1145
00:55:20,160 --> 00:55:21,879
Speaker 2: soon as she knew, And that's the only thing she's

1146
00:55:21,880 --> 00:55:23,959
Speaker 2: guilty of. She says, she was afraid of what Jeff

1147
00:55:23,960 --> 00:55:26,520
Speaker 2: would do if she came forward, which is reasonable given

1148
00:55:26,640 --> 00:55:29,120
Speaker 2: Jeff's track record of abuse. But people did this day

1149
00:55:29,160 --> 00:55:31,160
Speaker 2: doubt whether or not she knew about the plot in advance,

1150
00:55:31,800 --> 00:55:34,560
Speaker 2: and whether she helped advance it. But while all this

1151
00:55:34,640 --> 00:55:37,880
Speaker 2: investigation is going on, Tanya hasn't been charged with anything,

1152
00:55:37,960 --> 00:55:40,920
Speaker 2: and the Olympics are approaching, and with Tanya being a

1153
00:55:41,080 --> 00:55:45,759
Speaker 2: US champion, the Olympic Committee has no solid reason to

1154
00:55:45,840 --> 00:55:46,959
Speaker 2: remove her from the team.

1155
00:55:47,280 --> 00:55:47,960
Speaker 1: Like they can't.

1156
00:55:48,440 --> 00:55:52,000
Speaker 2: They're hoping she resigns because at this point she admitted

1157
00:55:52,040 --> 00:55:53,319
Speaker 2: she knew something about the plot.

1158
00:55:53,360 --> 00:55:53,919
Speaker 1: After the fact.

1159
00:55:54,719 --> 00:55:58,440
Speaker 2: Tanya then threatens to sue the Olympic Committee.

1160
00:55:59,320 --> 00:56:00,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, fucking to you.

1161
00:56:00,520 --> 00:56:07,160
Speaker 2: For ten million dollars, motherfucker, all you motherfuckers. I'm competing. Meanwhile,

1162
00:56:07,400 --> 00:56:10,600
Speaker 2: Nancy's healing up and she'll be able to compete in

1163
00:56:10,640 --> 00:56:12,719
Speaker 2: the six weeks between the attack and the games. She

1164
00:56:12,760 --> 00:56:15,839
Speaker 2: has to spend four weeks in physical therapy and then

1165
00:56:15,960 --> 00:56:19,000
Speaker 2: only has two weeks to practice her routine. Actually, in

1166
00:56:19,080 --> 00:56:21,759
Speaker 2: January nineteen ninety four, this story was so big it

1167
00:56:21,800 --> 00:56:24,480
Speaker 2: was on the covers of Sports Illustrated, news Week, and

1168
00:56:24,560 --> 00:56:25,680
Speaker 2: Time Magazine.

1169
00:56:25,840 --> 00:56:26,560
Speaker 1: It's huge.

1170
00:56:27,080 --> 00:56:32,400
Speaker 2: The Winter Olympics in Lillehammer, Norway, begin in February of

1171
00:56:32,440 --> 00:56:35,319
Speaker 2: nineteen ninety four, and at the Olympics, the whole US

1172
00:56:35,360 --> 00:56:38,239
Speaker 2: team has to practice at the same time. They all

1173
00:56:38,280 --> 00:56:40,640
Speaker 2: get the same ice time, which means Tanya and Nancy

1174
00:56:40,680 --> 00:56:43,480
Speaker 2: will be on the ice together. It's like, are they

1175
00:56:43,520 --> 00:56:45,680
Speaker 2: going to have a cat fight and scratch it out?

1176
00:56:45,760 --> 00:56:48,920
Speaker 2: It's just so dumb. A massive media frenzy happens and

1177
00:56:48,960 --> 00:56:51,239
Speaker 2: everyone wants to see what will happen in the end.

1178
00:56:51,600 --> 00:56:54,319
Speaker 2: It's all anti climactic. They don't get into a fight,

1179
00:56:54,440 --> 00:56:57,719
Speaker 2: they don't even talk to each other. Then Nancy has

1180
00:56:57,719 --> 00:56:59,440
Speaker 2: a pretty good outlook on the whole thing, and she

1181
00:56:59,520 --> 00:57:02,640
Speaker 2: kind of just gnor is any of the questions. She

1182
00:57:02,760 --> 00:57:04,400
Speaker 2: just won't talk about it. She doesn't want that to

1183
00:57:04,400 --> 00:57:07,160
Speaker 2: be the focus. She's pretty graceful about the whole thing.

1184
00:57:07,520 --> 00:57:10,759
Speaker 1: You love her, I love her, don't I? Oh No,

1185
00:57:11,040 --> 00:57:14,279
Speaker 1: I love Nancy. I'm teen Tanya all the way. Hey,

1186
00:57:14,520 --> 00:57:19,760
Speaker 1: Tanya's a fucking badass, Like, but I'm scared. Yeah, but

1187
00:57:20,040 --> 00:57:22,120
Speaker 1: I don't know. There's something about that thing of like

1188
00:57:22,640 --> 00:57:26,240
Speaker 1: she's just the little engine that nobody thought could and

1189
00:57:26,320 --> 00:57:29,280
Speaker 1: so she's like, I will I will beat you all

1190
00:57:29,320 --> 00:57:32,800
Speaker 1: into submission and then it's like, oh, but you're not

1191
00:57:32,920 --> 00:57:35,720
Speaker 1: pretty enough, and it's like it doesn't matter. I'm gonna

1192
00:57:35,720 --> 00:57:36,400
Speaker 1: do it anyway.

1193
00:57:36,520 --> 00:57:38,160
Speaker 2: She was like, if I do it exactly the way

1194
00:57:38,200 --> 00:57:40,400
Speaker 2: you want me to, I'm still going to fail. And

1195
00:57:40,440 --> 00:57:43,160
Speaker 2: so I'm doing it my fucking way and failing on

1196
00:57:43,200 --> 00:57:47,280
Speaker 2: my own terms, yep, and then still fucking winning and

1197
00:57:47,360 --> 00:57:49,120
Speaker 2: still showing you how good I am.

1198
00:57:49,120 --> 00:57:53,040
Speaker 1: I mean, she's so impressive. Also being fourth in like

1199
00:57:53,640 --> 00:57:57,800
Speaker 1: an Olympic sport, you might as I mean, no one

1200
00:57:57,880 --> 00:58:01,000
Speaker 1: can get close to that. No, that's the it's there's

1201
00:58:01,440 --> 00:58:04,240
Speaker 1: people really love to watch TV, myself included, and just

1202
00:58:04,240 --> 00:58:06,120
Speaker 1: be like I can get that. That's easy. It's not

1203
00:58:06,120 --> 00:58:09,080
Speaker 1: that bigger deal. It's like most people can't just go

1204
00:58:09,400 --> 00:58:12,760
Speaker 1: once around. No, And part of ice skating is making

1205
00:58:12,800 --> 00:58:13,680
Speaker 1: it look easy.

1206
00:58:13,680 --> 00:58:15,800
Speaker 2: They don't want you to have like strain on your

1207
00:58:15,840 --> 00:58:18,560
Speaker 2: face or big thighs, big muscular thighs.

1208
00:58:18,600 --> 00:58:20,480
Speaker 1: They want you to make it look like you're just

1209
00:58:20,480 --> 00:58:23,240
Speaker 1: flying because you're just a little lady. And Tony is like, well,

1210
00:58:23,320 --> 00:58:25,720
Speaker 1: fuck youngs, like I'm going to do things other people

1211
00:58:25,760 --> 00:58:28,440
Speaker 1: can't do, right, and where a lot of black eyelinerre

1212
00:58:28,440 --> 00:58:30,280
Speaker 1: well I did. The thing is that she didn't know

1213
00:58:30,360 --> 00:58:32,800
Speaker 1: she was an autumn and if we had just gotten

1214
00:58:32,840 --> 00:58:35,600
Speaker 1: some brown eyeliner in there, they would have loved her

1215
00:58:35,680 --> 00:58:38,800
Speaker 1: till death. Absolutely, she could have been a low redhead. Yeah,

1216
00:58:38,840 --> 00:58:40,000
Speaker 1: I think I love them both.

1217
00:58:40,320 --> 00:58:43,600
Speaker 2: Okay, So once the competition gets underway, Nancy skates a

1218
00:58:43,600 --> 00:58:46,560
Speaker 2: great short program while Tanya's performance is rocky.

1219
00:58:47,280 --> 00:58:49,040
Speaker 1: I mean, no stress or anything.

1220
00:58:49,120 --> 00:58:51,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly when it comes for the long program, when

1221
00:58:51,920 --> 00:58:54,280
Speaker 2: Tanya's name is called, it takes her a long time

1222
00:58:54,320 --> 00:58:56,600
Speaker 2: to get on the ice because her shoelace broke.

1223
00:58:57,200 --> 00:58:58,360
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, and she remembered that.

1224
00:58:58,440 --> 00:59:01,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, she's very specific shoes because of the jumps, and

1225
00:59:01,240 --> 00:59:03,240
Speaker 2: so they couldn't find the laces that were long enough

1226
00:59:03,240 --> 00:59:05,439
Speaker 2: for her. She's freaking out. She gets on the ice

1227
00:59:05,760 --> 00:59:10,480
Speaker 2: very last minute, so stress like can you imagine, I mean,

1228
00:59:10,760 --> 00:59:12,480
Speaker 2: she says like it's not going to hold me, Like

1229
00:59:12,520 --> 00:59:14,800
Speaker 2: she knows her shoes are not going to hold her

1230
00:59:14,840 --> 00:59:18,920
Speaker 2: for her jumps, and she also has like a misaligned skate.

1231
00:59:19,440 --> 00:59:21,560
Speaker 2: It's just a mess. And so she fails her first

1232
00:59:21,680 --> 00:59:24,480
Speaker 2: jump and she begins crying and takes her This is

1233
00:59:24,480 --> 00:59:25,760
Speaker 2: the one where she yeah.

1234
00:59:25,600 --> 00:59:27,760
Speaker 1: I watched all of it yeah, I saw it. And

1235
00:59:27,880 --> 00:59:30,560
Speaker 1: also it's that thing where when I was watching it

1236
00:59:30,600 --> 00:59:33,160
Speaker 1: and I think, there's no way the judges weren't saying

1237
00:59:33,200 --> 00:59:36,200
Speaker 1: this or like this, the commentators weren't kind of alluding

1238
00:59:36,240 --> 00:59:39,160
Speaker 1: to it, but it's like, how do you with that

1239
00:59:39,680 --> 00:59:42,480
Speaker 1: right behind you? Oh? Yeah, go? And so what the

1240
00:59:42,520 --> 00:59:45,200
Speaker 1: second her lace was broken, it was like to me,

1241
00:59:45,320 --> 00:59:48,520
Speaker 1: I could feel I felt like it was the pressure

1242
00:59:48,600 --> 00:59:52,920
Speaker 1: was building building like crazy, and the like people staring

1243
00:59:52,960 --> 00:59:55,280
Speaker 1: at her. And then it was like it wasn't the shoelace.

1244
00:59:55,400 --> 00:59:57,560
Speaker 1: You just couldn't you want to out? There's no coming

1245
00:59:57,600 --> 00:59:59,520
Speaker 1: back from that. And yeah, and then that.

1246
00:59:59,600 --> 01:00:02,360
Speaker 2: Everyone just loved the photo of her face looking like

1247
01:00:02,400 --> 01:00:05,080
Speaker 2: they ate it up, how devastated she looked. And it's

1248
01:00:05,120 --> 01:00:07,120
Speaker 2: like you you know, everyone was like, you got what

1249
01:00:07,200 --> 01:00:09,280
Speaker 2: you deserve, Like it's this whole storyline.

1250
01:00:09,320 --> 01:00:12,360
Speaker 1: Everyone loves that kind of like teacher a lesson totally,

1251
01:00:12,360 --> 01:00:14,720
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, God forbid? She yeah, lay

1252
01:00:14,720 --> 01:00:17,040
Speaker 1: in the bed that you made type of thing totally.

1253
01:00:17,080 --> 01:00:19,000
Speaker 2: So that's kind of what happened. No one had any

1254
01:00:19,240 --> 01:00:22,840
Speaker 2: sympathy for her. She restarts the program and with the

1255
01:00:22,920 --> 01:00:25,760
Speaker 2: new lace, and the routine goes well, but there's no

1256
01:00:25,800 --> 01:00:30,560
Speaker 2: triple axle, nothing, nothing great. And Nancy skates after Tanya

1257
01:00:30,680 --> 01:00:33,400
Speaker 2: and again skates a great program and it's looking like

1258
01:00:33,480 --> 01:00:35,720
Speaker 2: Nancy might be poised for the gold. That everyone is

1259
01:00:35,840 --> 01:00:38,480
Speaker 2: rooting for her because she's America's princess and she got

1260
01:00:38,680 --> 01:00:39,920
Speaker 2: back on the ice and it's.

1261
01:00:39,800 --> 01:00:42,560
Speaker 1: All that she's so brave. Yes, she's a Disney princess.

1262
01:00:42,680 --> 01:00:46,720
Speaker 1: It's braver that Tanya got on the ice because aside

1263
01:00:46,720 --> 01:00:50,520
Speaker 1: from physical yeah, I think psychologically, yeah, if we're going

1264
01:00:50,560 --> 01:00:53,360
Speaker 1: to do a brave measurement, Tanya wins that one.

1265
01:00:53,520 --> 01:00:56,920
Speaker 2: She refused to apologize to anyone. Yeah, and you know,

1266
01:00:57,440 --> 01:01:01,640
Speaker 2: mm hmm, she had she had hotspot, maybe.

1267
01:01:01,360 --> 01:01:03,760
Speaker 1: A little too much. Yeah.

1268
01:01:03,800 --> 01:01:08,400
Speaker 2: But then comes sixteen year old Oksana Bayoul from Ukraine,

1269
01:01:09,320 --> 01:01:11,640
Speaker 2: and sensing that she's probably neck and neck with Nancy,

1270
01:01:11,760 --> 01:01:14,920
Speaker 2: she adds in an unplanned triple toe loop whatever the

1271
01:01:14,920 --> 01:01:17,560
Speaker 2: fuck that is at the end of her program, and

1272
01:01:17,600 --> 01:01:21,120
Speaker 2: it ultimately lands her the gold and Nancy gets the silver.

1273
01:01:21,840 --> 01:01:23,440
Speaker 1: Tanya comes in eighth place.

1274
01:01:23,560 --> 01:01:25,280
Speaker 2: Oh, after all of that, so, I think they were

1275
01:01:25,320 --> 01:01:27,400
Speaker 2: hoping that they'd be like neck and neck and you know,

1276
01:01:28,720 --> 01:01:31,080
Speaker 2: and it's a really disappointing outcome, of course for the

1277
01:01:31,120 --> 01:01:35,240
Speaker 2: American sports casting perspective and an unsatisfying end of the

1278
01:01:35,240 --> 01:01:36,760
Speaker 2: biggest sports story of the year.

1279
01:01:36,840 --> 01:01:39,240
Speaker 1: But Oxana did skate really well.

1280
01:01:39,840 --> 01:01:42,320
Speaker 2: But a lot of people say that the skating community

1281
01:01:42,400 --> 01:01:45,360
Speaker 2: was actually just sick of America's antics. So even though

1282
01:01:45,440 --> 01:01:47,560
Speaker 2: Nancy should have gotten gold, and a lot of people

1283
01:01:47,640 --> 01:01:52,720
Speaker 2: argue that they were just like done with America's oh shit,

1284
01:01:52,920 --> 01:01:53,920
Speaker 2: and so gave her silver.

1285
01:01:54,120 --> 01:01:55,480
Speaker 1: So Nancy's double punished.

1286
01:01:55,560 --> 01:01:58,480
Speaker 2: Nancy's double punished, Yeah, because it's something she had no

1287
01:01:58,480 --> 01:01:59,000
Speaker 2: control over.

1288
01:01:59,200 --> 01:02:02,320
Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, but also it just like and I also

1289
01:02:02,360 --> 01:02:04,880
Speaker 1: wrap it up that is that is so like life

1290
01:02:04,920 --> 01:02:07,520
Speaker 1: where it's just like, you can't hang out in the

1291
01:02:08,240 --> 01:02:11,240
Speaker 1: public eye that long, right without they're gonna get fucking

1292
01:02:11,240 --> 01:02:12,959
Speaker 1: sick of you know, they're going to come out too much.

1293
01:02:13,040 --> 01:02:14,920
Speaker 1: They like you, They're gonna come at Joe, what are

1294
01:02:14,920 --> 01:02:16,640
Speaker 1: we doing. It's ten fucking years of this. Who oh,

1295
01:02:16,680 --> 01:02:19,160
Speaker 1: we've had that time and again we have, haven't we?

1296
01:02:19,440 --> 01:02:22,520
Speaker 2: I mean, Jesus Christ, we're the Tanya Hardings and Nancy

1297
01:02:22,560 --> 01:02:24,040
Speaker 2: Carrigan of podcasting.

1298
01:02:25,640 --> 01:02:30,400
Speaker 1: Okay, I think for the double Tanya Hardings and podcasting. Fine.

1299
01:02:31,240 --> 01:02:34,120
Speaker 1: So in March of nineteen eighty four, right after the Games,

1300
01:02:34,160 --> 01:02:37,480
Speaker 1: and Tanya makes a plea deal, pleading guilty conspiracy to

1301
01:02:37,560 --> 01:02:41,360
Speaker 1: hinder prosecution. She's stripped of her nineteen ninety four Olympic

1302
01:02:41,480 --> 01:02:45,880
Speaker 1: eighth place title. She's like take it, you canna have it.

1303
01:02:45,960 --> 01:02:48,880
Speaker 2: And she's banned from participating in figure skating in any

1304
01:02:48,960 --> 01:02:51,400
Speaker 2: official capacity for the rest of her life.

1305
01:02:51,680 --> 01:02:53,240
Speaker 1: Jesus kind of it sucks.

1306
01:02:53,240 --> 01:02:55,919
Speaker 2: It's the devastating blow. That's like what her whole life

1307
01:02:55,920 --> 01:02:58,000
Speaker 2: has been leading up to. But also it means she

1308
01:02:58,040 --> 01:03:00,920
Speaker 2: won't be able to coach or make any money in

1309
01:03:00,960 --> 01:03:03,479
Speaker 2: the skating circuit, you know, when Disney on ice or whatever.

1310
01:03:03,520 --> 01:03:07,000
Speaker 2: She cannot even fucking yeah do bad below. So that's

1311
01:03:07,040 --> 01:03:09,760
Speaker 2: her entire life has been dedicated to this thing and

1312
01:03:09,800 --> 01:03:10,960
Speaker 2: she can't make a penny off of it.

1313
01:03:11,040 --> 01:03:13,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's all she knows. She didn't even graduate high school.

1314
01:03:13,800 --> 01:03:19,640
Speaker 1: There's some vengeful yeah, skating whatever. The skating authority is tough. Yeah,

1315
01:03:19,800 --> 01:03:22,120
Speaker 1: like let her get on the B level circuit, you know,

1316
01:03:22,280 --> 01:03:24,600
Speaker 1: like let her code. How does that hurt you? They

1317
01:03:24,600 --> 01:03:27,120
Speaker 1: get to like make a point no attacking other people's

1318
01:03:27,200 --> 01:03:29,400
Speaker 1: knees from my bear enough.

1319
01:03:30,120 --> 01:03:33,680
Speaker 2: In the twenty ten's, after renewed attention to the case,

1320
01:03:34,080 --> 01:03:36,600
Speaker 2: and then also after the Tanya movie comes out, which

1321
01:03:36,640 --> 01:03:38,320
Speaker 2: was so fucking good. I watched her for the weekend,

1322
01:03:38,480 --> 01:03:40,320
Speaker 2: Like I didn't think I'd like it.

1323
01:03:40,320 --> 01:03:43,520
Speaker 1: It's so good, it's so funny.

1324
01:03:43,840 --> 01:03:47,800
Speaker 2: She finds more work on reality TV and does better,

1325
01:03:47,960 --> 01:03:50,520
Speaker 2: and in twenty eighteen she comes in third.

1326
01:03:50,840 --> 01:03:55,400
Speaker 1: On Dancing with the Stars? Did she really? Third? Is amazing?

1327
01:03:55,560 --> 01:03:57,720
Speaker 2: Amazing for someone who's, well, she's a dancer, I guess,

1328
01:03:57,720 --> 01:04:00,000
Speaker 2: but not in that sense and probably not for a while.

1329
01:04:00,240 --> 01:04:02,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, But also, Dancing with the Stars is hard.

1330
01:04:03,120 --> 01:04:06,280
Speaker 2: Oh my god, Jesus, guess what you're going to be

1331
01:04:06,360 --> 01:04:06,560
Speaker 2: on it?

1332
01:04:06,640 --> 01:04:09,360
Speaker 1: Now? Did you do it? If they asked you never,

1333
01:04:09,560 --> 01:04:13,360
Speaker 1: you wouldn't fuck no, Because they're just in your business

1334
01:04:13,360 --> 01:04:15,480
Speaker 1: all the time. It's like a reality show of like

1335
01:04:16,000 --> 01:04:18,560
Speaker 1: this is also your life, and so then it's like

1336
01:04:18,640 --> 01:04:22,400
Speaker 1: you practicing, it's just behind the scenes. It's too much

1337
01:04:22,440 --> 01:04:26,959
Speaker 1: of like any person's it's like, you know, that's real training, all.

1338
01:04:26,880 --> 01:04:28,480
Speaker 2: Right, I gotta call our agent and tell him you

1339
01:04:28,520 --> 01:04:32,680
Speaker 2: said no. A. Nancy has remained deeply involved in the

1340
01:04:32,680 --> 01:04:36,360
Speaker 2: skating community and has commentated for the Olympics. She lives

1341
01:04:36,400 --> 01:04:39,680
Speaker 2: in Massachusetts, Variant, and she has a husband and kids.

1342
01:04:39,680 --> 01:04:42,720
Speaker 2: She's very involved in the Skating Club of Boston, the

1343
01:04:42,720 --> 01:04:45,600
Speaker 2: group that lost many young figure skaters in last year's

1344
01:04:45,600 --> 01:04:47,360
Speaker 2: plane crash in Washington, d C.

1345
01:04:47,960 --> 01:04:48,160
Speaker 1: No.

1346
01:04:48,320 --> 01:04:50,640
Speaker 2: And there's a video of her giving a press conference

1347
01:04:50,680 --> 01:04:51,120
Speaker 2: like weeping.

1348
01:04:51,160 --> 01:04:55,000
Speaker 1: It's so sad. So now do you feel fucking bad? Yeah? Okay,

1349
01:04:55,040 --> 01:04:56,800
Speaker 1: even worse, here's something better.

1350
01:04:57,040 --> 01:05:00,000
Speaker 2: She's actually also appeared on Dancing with the Stars several

1351
01:05:00,080 --> 01:05:02,000
Speaker 2: seasons before Tanya, and she came.

1352
01:05:01,880 --> 01:05:03,920
Speaker 1: In sixth Oh, so I think we know who the

1353
01:05:04,000 --> 01:05:07,640
Speaker 1: better athlete is after all these years. They really in

1354
01:05:07,680 --> 01:05:10,760
Speaker 1: the form that it needs to be figured out Dancing

1355
01:05:10,760 --> 01:05:12,240
Speaker 1: with the Stars, not at Olympics.

1356
01:05:12,400 --> 01:05:16,240
Speaker 2: I got us sitting on her butts critiquing.

1357
01:05:17,680 --> 01:05:20,120
Speaker 1: Armchair quarterbacking. That's as we love to do.

1358
01:05:21,040 --> 01:05:24,120
Speaker 2: Throughout the nineties, American figure skating becomes a huge deal

1359
01:05:24,320 --> 01:05:27,560
Speaker 2: with TV specials and national tours. This is when it

1360
01:05:27,640 --> 01:05:31,760
Speaker 2: really like blows up into mainstream and figure skaters are

1361
01:05:31,800 --> 01:05:35,120
Speaker 2: catapulted to a much higher status of fame and recognition

1362
01:05:35,400 --> 01:05:39,960
Speaker 2: and fucking that those flucrative deals than they were previously.

1363
01:05:40,000 --> 01:05:42,480
Speaker 2: And a lot of people think that Nancy, the whole

1364
01:05:42,560 --> 01:05:45,760
Speaker 2: Nancy Versus Tanya spectacle is part of the reason for

1365
01:05:45,840 --> 01:05:49,040
Speaker 2: this yeah, that makes sense. So it launches a generation

1366
01:05:49,080 --> 01:05:52,000
Speaker 2: of figure skating fans who to this day continue to

1367
01:05:52,000 --> 01:05:55,360
Speaker 2: debate what Tanya knew and when she knew it. And

1368
01:05:55,400 --> 01:05:57,960
Speaker 2: that is the story of the nineteen ninety four assault

1369
01:05:58,200 --> 01:05:59,200
Speaker 2: of Nancy Kerrigan.

1370
01:05:59,760 --> 01:06:04,160
Speaker 1: Incredible Christmas tale, so good for the holiday.

1371
01:06:04,200 --> 01:06:06,040
Speaker 2: It's nothing like is that a Christmas movie? Is just

1372
01:06:06,080 --> 01:06:07,280
Speaker 2: a Christmas story?

1373
01:06:06,960 --> 01:06:10,600
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, it is ice, it's ice, it's everywhere, and

1374
01:06:10,840 --> 01:06:14,600
Speaker 1: but also it's like hopes and dreams and then dreams

1375
01:06:14,640 --> 01:06:18,480
Speaker 1: deferred and what that does to you Christmas miracle. It's

1376
01:06:18,520 --> 01:06:22,160
Speaker 1: almost like they did it, the Olympic Committee did that

1377
01:06:22,240 --> 01:06:25,320
Speaker 1: on purpose of like nobody likes the way that ended

1378
01:06:25,360 --> 01:06:28,560
Speaker 1: up with Kerrigan and Harding, so let's get him back

1379
01:06:28,600 --> 01:06:33,120
Speaker 1: out here. Yeah, yeah, because that's wild. Yeah, amazing story.

1380
01:06:33,200 --> 01:06:36,080
Speaker 1: Thank you, What a great thing for everyone's vacation. Yeah.

1381
01:06:36,120 --> 01:06:37,640
Speaker 2: I didn't even think of doing it because it's just

1382
01:06:37,640 --> 01:06:39,440
Speaker 2: like such a story from our youth, Like I've just

1383
01:06:39,720 --> 01:06:42,440
Speaker 2: been like, yeah, that's not your crime, or like that's

1384
01:06:42,520 --> 01:06:44,720
Speaker 2: just what happened, and it's like, oh, this is fucking.

1385
01:06:44,640 --> 01:06:48,840
Speaker 1: That's when someone's they pulled crime into their perfect little

1386
01:06:48,880 --> 01:06:54,080
Speaker 1: world of athleticism, and you know, coaching and like that's

1387
01:06:54,120 --> 01:06:55,640
Speaker 1: not allowed there. Oh yeah.

1388
01:06:55,680 --> 01:06:57,680
Speaker 2: When Ali and Molly pitched it to me, I was like,

1389
01:06:57,760 --> 01:06:59,439
Speaker 2: oh I could do that, so good.

1390
01:07:00,000 --> 01:07:02,000
Speaker 1: Thank you guys. Yeah that was great. I was really good.

1391
01:07:02,000 --> 01:07:05,600
Speaker 1: Thank you. Good job to you too. Thank you very much.

1392
01:07:05,680 --> 01:07:08,080
Speaker 1: Check tator and commentator. You know, I was there for

1393
01:07:08,160 --> 01:07:12,120
Speaker 1: a lot of it. Don't remember it accurately, but love chatting. Sure,

1394
01:07:12,200 --> 01:07:15,640
Speaker 1: it's my favorite, especially Christmas. Especially Sorry, I keep saying

1395
01:07:15,680 --> 01:07:19,080
Speaker 1: Christmas to you, especially at the holiday times. Thank you.

1396
01:07:19,080 --> 01:07:26,880
Speaker 1: Your holiday is also important to to me. Well, listeners,

1397
01:07:27,040 --> 01:07:31,160
Speaker 1: have a lovely holiday. Whatever you're celebrating or even not celebrating,

1398
01:07:31,200 --> 01:07:33,520
Speaker 1: that's right. Treat yourself to something nice. You deserve it.

1399
01:07:33,640 --> 01:07:38,120
Speaker 1: Treat yourself to a telescoping weapon of your choice this

1400
01:07:38,240 --> 01:07:45,720
Speaker 1: holiday season. Stay sexy and don't get murdered. Goodbye, Elvis,

1401
01:07:45,720 --> 01:07:55,040
Speaker 1: Do you want a cookie? This has been an exactly

1402
01:07:55,120 --> 01:07:55,720
Speaker 1: right production.

1403
01:07:55,920 --> 01:07:58,640
Speaker 2: Our senior producer is Molly Smith and our associate producer

1404
01:07:58,680 --> 01:07:59,400
Speaker 2: is Tessa Hughes.

1405
01:07:59,520 --> 01:08:02,560
Speaker 1: Our editor is Aristotle aasce Vedo. This episode was mixed

1406
01:08:02,600 --> 01:08:06,480
Speaker 1: by Leona Squillacci. Our researchers are Mary McGlashan and Ali Elkin.

1407
01:08:06,640 --> 01:08:09,320
Speaker 1: Email your hometowns to My Favorite Murder at gmail dot

1408
01:08:09,360 --> 01:08:12,160
Speaker 1: com and follow the show on Instagram at my Favorite Murder.

1409
01:08:12,200 --> 01:08:15,040
Speaker 2: Listen to My Favorite Murder on the iHeartRadio app, Apple

1410
01:08:15,080 --> 01:08:17,640
Speaker 2: Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

1411
01:08:17,160 --> 01:08:18,920
Speaker 1: Or you can watch us on YouTube. Search for My

1412
01:08:18,960 --> 01:08:22,160
Speaker 1: Favorite Murder, then like and subscribe. Goodbye,