WEBVTT - In the Name of Osiris

0:00:03.040 --> 0:00:06.840
<v Speaker 1>Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind, a production of iHeartRadio.

0:00:12.760 --> 0:00:14.400
<v Speaker 2>Hey you welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind.

0:00:14.440 --> 0:00:17.160
<v Speaker 3>My name is Robert Lamb and I'm Joe McCormick.

0:00:17.720 --> 0:00:19.680
<v Speaker 2>Last week on the show, we did a two parter

0:00:19.880 --> 0:00:25.040
<v Speaker 2>about the ancient Egyptian underworld fertility god Osiris, and today's

0:00:25.079 --> 0:00:28.120
<v Speaker 2>episode is kind of a spin off of that. Well,

0:00:28.160 --> 0:00:30.520
<v Speaker 2>I think you're going to have more fun if you

0:00:30.600 --> 0:00:34.680
<v Speaker 2>go into this episode with some familiarity regarding the mythology

0:00:34.680 --> 0:00:38.760
<v Speaker 2>in question. So I would say, if you have a

0:00:39.000 --> 0:00:40.960
<v Speaker 2>choice in the matter, yeah, go back and listen to

0:00:41.040 --> 0:00:46.200
<v Speaker 2>the two previous episodes about Osiris the god and surrounding mythology.

0:00:46.920 --> 0:00:48.680
<v Speaker 2>Go ahead and listen to those. But it's also not

0:00:48.880 --> 0:00:53.199
<v Speaker 2>completely necessary. The basic gist here is, okay, Osiris is

0:00:53.200 --> 0:00:56.640
<v Speaker 2>a mythological figure who continues to resonate with people around

0:00:56.640 --> 0:00:59.320
<v Speaker 2>the world, and even his name has this kind of

0:00:59.400 --> 0:01:02.120
<v Speaker 2>regal myss to many ob us. Just to say the

0:01:02.200 --> 0:01:05.480
<v Speaker 2>name allowed Osiris, you know, it kind of summons a

0:01:05.480 --> 0:01:10.200
<v Speaker 2>certain amount of mystery and I don't know, strangeness and

0:01:10.319 --> 0:01:13.319
<v Speaker 2>power into the room with you. And scientists are far

0:01:13.360 --> 0:01:16.400
<v Speaker 2>from immune to such charms. So we have various things

0:01:16.400 --> 0:01:19.440
<v Speaker 2>in the scientific and technological world that are named after him.

0:01:20.319 --> 0:01:24.120
<v Speaker 2>In some cases we're talking about highly tortured acronyms. Other

0:01:24.200 --> 0:01:27.240
<v Speaker 2>times there seems to be, you know, even less connection.

0:01:27.880 --> 0:01:30.039
<v Speaker 2>So we're not going to touch on everything in the

0:01:30.080 --> 0:01:33.160
<v Speaker 2>scientific and technological world that is named after Osiris. There

0:01:33.160 --> 0:01:35.080
<v Speaker 2>are some things we're not going to get into, like

0:01:35.120 --> 0:01:39.160
<v Speaker 2>there is an exoplanet that is nicknamed Osirius, not officially

0:01:39.240 --> 0:01:42.119
<v Speaker 2>named Osiris. But we are going to talk about two

0:01:42.160 --> 0:01:44.959
<v Speaker 2>things in particular. You know, it's an opportunity to chat

0:01:44.959 --> 0:01:48.400
<v Speaker 2>about some very deserving science in the name of Osiris,

0:01:48.840 --> 0:01:51.520
<v Speaker 2>as you know, as well as some scientific tidbits that

0:01:51.520 --> 0:01:53.440
<v Speaker 2>we might not otherwise have discussed.

0:01:53.800 --> 0:01:56.840
<v Speaker 3>Right, So first up, I wanted to talk about a

0:01:56.880 --> 0:02:02.080
<v Speaker 3>couple of aspects of Osiris Rex, which was the name

0:02:02.440 --> 0:02:07.160
<v Speaker 3>of an asteroid sample return mission operated by NASA, as

0:02:07.200 --> 0:02:11.280
<v Speaker 3>well as the original name of its associated spacecraft, but

0:02:11.440 --> 0:02:14.520
<v Speaker 3>it has since been resurrected with a new identity. It

0:02:14.560 --> 0:02:18.760
<v Speaker 3>has now been reborn as Osiris APEX. I'll explain that

0:02:18.840 --> 0:02:19.520
<v Speaker 3>in a minute.

0:02:19.639 --> 0:02:22.040
<v Speaker 2>Well that sounds really cool too, and I mean, if

0:02:22.080 --> 0:02:25.240
<v Speaker 2>nothing else, this is just an awesome name for a

0:02:25.280 --> 0:02:25.959
<v Speaker 2>space mission.

0:02:26.320 --> 0:02:29.760
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I'm trying to discern the mythological significance of going

0:02:29.760 --> 0:02:32.200
<v Speaker 3>from Rex to Apex. I guess that would be like

0:02:32.480 --> 0:02:36.560
<v Speaker 3>going from Osiris the King to Osiris the Peak. That's

0:02:36.600 --> 0:02:37.480
<v Speaker 3>what Apex means.

0:02:37.480 --> 0:02:39.520
<v Speaker 2>I think in either a case, I mean it is

0:02:39.520 --> 0:02:43.680
<v Speaker 2>fitting to name things in space or sent into space

0:02:43.720 --> 0:02:48.520
<v Speaker 2>after Osiris, given the ancient Egyptians fascination with the stars.

0:02:49.120 --> 0:02:51.840
<v Speaker 3>Fair enough, so I'll start with just a very short

0:02:51.919 --> 0:02:55.240
<v Speaker 3>rough sketch of the mission history and then come back

0:02:55.280 --> 0:02:58.000
<v Speaker 3>and talk about a couple of aspects of it. So

0:02:58.120 --> 0:03:03.080
<v Speaker 3>Osiris REX launched in September twenty sixteen, and in twenty

0:03:03.200 --> 0:03:07.880
<v Speaker 3>eighteen successfully achieved a deep space rendezvous with its target,

0:03:08.280 --> 0:03:12.400
<v Speaker 3>an asteroid called one oh one nine five five Binu

0:03:12.600 --> 0:03:18.160
<v Speaker 3>b NNU. The spacecraft spent roughly two years after that

0:03:18.480 --> 0:03:22.960
<v Speaker 3>orbiting Binu, mapping its surface, doing analysis of the asteroid

0:03:22.960 --> 0:03:27.040
<v Speaker 3>from orbit, and trying to select an ideal landing zone,

0:03:27.280 --> 0:03:31.640
<v Speaker 3>which proved a bit more difficult than had originally been anticipated.

0:03:32.280 --> 0:03:36.360
<v Speaker 3>In October of twenty twenty, o Cyrus REX managed to

0:03:36.360 --> 0:03:39.960
<v Speaker 3>touch down on the surface of Binu and collect a

0:03:40.040 --> 0:03:43.840
<v Speaker 3>sample of its regolith. The regolith is the rocky outer

0:03:44.000 --> 0:03:46.960
<v Speaker 3>soil covering the object. But it was not like a

0:03:47.000 --> 0:03:49.840
<v Speaker 3>full landing where it sat down and chilled for a while.

0:03:50.200 --> 0:03:53.960
<v Speaker 3>It was a touch and go sampling operation, so it

0:03:54.120 --> 0:03:57.800
<v Speaker 3>touched down, it sort of poked the asteroid with a

0:03:57.840 --> 0:04:01.000
<v Speaker 3>mechanism called its sampling arms, had kind of a leg

0:04:01.160 --> 0:04:04.240
<v Speaker 3>or a limb that came out below it that poked

0:04:04.280 --> 0:04:07.800
<v Speaker 3>down into the asteroids regolith, did a blast of nitrogen

0:04:07.880 --> 0:04:10.760
<v Speaker 3>gas to try to stir up some of this. The

0:04:10.800 --> 0:04:14.440
<v Speaker 3>soil captured a bunch of it and then blasted right

0:04:14.520 --> 0:04:19.120
<v Speaker 3>back off it kind of like a mosquito. Didn't land

0:04:19.160 --> 0:04:20.880
<v Speaker 3>for as long as a mosquito, though, it was more

0:04:20.960 --> 0:04:23.400
<v Speaker 3>like if a mosquito just had to kind of like

0:04:23.560 --> 0:04:27.000
<v Speaker 3>jab you and then retreat. Gotcha, like if a mosquito

0:04:27.040 --> 0:04:31.200
<v Speaker 3>would fly down poke you, hit your blood vessels under

0:04:31.200 --> 0:04:34.080
<v Speaker 3>the skin with a blast of nitrogen gas, cause a

0:04:34.120 --> 0:04:37.760
<v Speaker 3>little sort of explosion of blood, and then just suck

0:04:37.839 --> 0:04:40.240
<v Speaker 3>up a bunch of that as it is bouncing back

0:04:40.279 --> 0:04:43.520
<v Speaker 3>off of your skin. But anyway, the sampling was successful.

0:04:43.520 --> 0:04:47.520
<v Speaker 3>It got a significant amount of the material from Binu,

0:04:47.920 --> 0:04:52.359
<v Speaker 3>and then it lifted off and returned to Earth, which

0:04:52.720 --> 0:04:56.400
<v Speaker 3>and so the spacecraft didn't fully return to Earth, but

0:04:56.520 --> 0:04:59.600
<v Speaker 3>it had a capsule that was for the sample return

0:05:00.080 --> 0:05:03.800
<v Speaker 3>which touchdown on Earth. I think it landed in Utah

0:05:04.240 --> 0:05:09.159
<v Speaker 3>in September twenty twenty three, and the asteroid soil sample

0:05:09.360 --> 0:05:12.360
<v Speaker 3>was intact and it was ready to be studied. So

0:05:12.400 --> 0:05:15.000
<v Speaker 3>that is something we now have in the possession of

0:05:15.040 --> 0:05:18.919
<v Speaker 3>Earth scientists who have already gotten to work analyzing it

0:05:19.000 --> 0:05:20.760
<v Speaker 3>and doing science on the basis of it.

0:05:20.960 --> 0:05:25.719
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's a pretty impressive technological achievement, you know, not

0:05:25.760 --> 0:05:28.279
<v Speaker 2>even getting in to just all the details of just

0:05:28.360 --> 0:05:30.640
<v Speaker 2>making sure everything lines up just right.

0:05:30.560 --> 0:05:32.800
<v Speaker 3>Here in many ways. I mean, there are a lot

0:05:32.839 --> 0:05:35.400
<v Speaker 3>of things that are hard about doing a mission like this.

0:05:35.839 --> 0:05:39.000
<v Speaker 3>So of course there's just there are the navigational challenges

0:05:39.000 --> 0:05:42.560
<v Speaker 3>of trying to intersect with a small, fast moving object

0:05:42.600 --> 0:05:46.200
<v Speaker 3>in space like an asteroid. There is once you get there,

0:05:46.360 --> 0:05:49.120
<v Speaker 3>the selection of the landing zone, this difficult touch and

0:05:49.160 --> 0:05:52.839
<v Speaker 3>go maneuver to try to capture a piece of the

0:05:52.880 --> 0:05:56.960
<v Speaker 3>asteroid some soil from it without contaminating it, to get

0:05:57.000 --> 0:06:02.039
<v Speaker 3>that safely back to Earth on intact and uncontaminated. And

0:06:02.080 --> 0:06:05.279
<v Speaker 3>then also things people might not even think of. For example,

0:06:06.040 --> 0:06:10.520
<v Speaker 3>when the spacecraft and the probe were conducting their operations

0:06:10.520 --> 0:06:13.080
<v Speaker 3>on the asteroid surface. That's not something that like a

0:06:13.200 --> 0:06:16.599
<v Speaker 3>human pilot can operate in real time with a joystick.

0:06:17.080 --> 0:06:21.240
<v Speaker 3>Because it's so far away, there's a significant travel time

0:06:21.360 --> 0:06:25.320
<v Speaker 3>for information back and forth between mission control here on

0:06:25.320 --> 0:06:30.359
<v Speaker 3>Earth and the probe. So essentially, these maneuvers had to

0:06:30.360 --> 0:06:33.360
<v Speaker 3>be pre programmed so that the probe could carry them

0:06:33.360 --> 0:06:36.240
<v Speaker 3>out on its own, because there wouldn't be enough real

0:06:36.279 --> 0:06:40.200
<v Speaker 3>time exchange of information for like a human pilot to

0:06:40.240 --> 0:06:43.000
<v Speaker 3>see what's happening in the moment and adjust. You have

0:06:43.080 --> 0:06:46.080
<v Speaker 3>to like make sure you've programmed it correctly in advance

0:06:46.440 --> 0:06:48.360
<v Speaker 3>and it can do what it needs to do without

0:06:48.400 --> 0:06:52.840
<v Speaker 3>you being able to intervene. But anyway, after the successful

0:06:52.920 --> 0:06:56.480
<v Speaker 3>conclusion of the Osiris Rex mission, the spacecraft was given

0:06:56.480 --> 0:06:59.720
<v Speaker 3>a new mission and a new name to rendezvous with

0:07:00.040 --> 0:07:04.279
<v Speaker 3>and study the asteroid nine nine nine four two Apophice, and,

0:07:04.440 --> 0:07:09.320
<v Speaker 3>in keeping with its new role, the new name Osiris APEX. So,

0:07:09.440 --> 0:07:12.440
<v Speaker 3>as you previewed a minute ago, rob O Cyrus Rex

0:07:12.560 --> 0:07:16.600
<v Speaker 3>is an acronym. It's one of these kind of I

0:07:16.600 --> 0:07:19.680
<v Speaker 3>always wonder how these things exactly come together when, like

0:07:19.920 --> 0:07:22.040
<v Speaker 3>you know, you select all the things and they're supposed

0:07:22.080 --> 0:07:25.360
<v Speaker 3>to stand for what it actually does, but then it

0:07:25.400 --> 0:07:28.120
<v Speaker 3>makes a word that already exists, and you're like, that

0:07:28.160 --> 0:07:33.720
<v Speaker 3>didn't happen by accident. Who organizes the acronym for formation process?

0:07:33.760 --> 0:07:34.200
<v Speaker 3>I don't know.

0:07:34.600 --> 0:07:36.760
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's like it's one of these situations where you

0:07:36.800 --> 0:07:39.440
<v Speaker 2>sort of you get in within spitting distance of a

0:07:39.440 --> 0:07:42.960
<v Speaker 2>really cool word and then you start turning the screws

0:07:43.280 --> 0:07:46.520
<v Speaker 2>to get it a little closer, you know, because you're

0:07:46.560 --> 0:07:50.640
<v Speaker 2>not hitting Osiris REX. You know, first try with no manipulation.

0:07:51.280 --> 0:07:55.400
<v Speaker 3>Certainly not so it's not without it being an Osiris miracle,

0:07:56.440 --> 0:08:01.840
<v Speaker 3>but okay. So it stands for origins, Spectral Interpretation, Resource

0:08:01.880 --> 0:08:07.720
<v Speaker 3>Identification and Security regalith Explorer, So those parts of the

0:08:07.800 --> 0:08:12.080
<v Speaker 3>name are basically a summary of what Osiris REX was

0:08:12.280 --> 0:08:15.320
<v Speaker 3>meant to study or what types of questions it was

0:08:15.360 --> 0:08:19.680
<v Speaker 3>meant to help illuminate. So, for example, origins refers to

0:08:19.800 --> 0:08:23.000
<v Speaker 3>the fact that the target of the mission is what

0:08:23.200 --> 0:08:27.600
<v Speaker 3>has sometimes been called a time capsule. Asteroid Binu was

0:08:27.640 --> 0:08:33.600
<v Speaker 3>selected because it is thought to be a pristine four

0:08:33.600 --> 0:08:37.600
<v Speaker 3>point five million year old, carbon rich asteroid that has

0:08:37.640 --> 0:08:41.920
<v Speaker 3>been preserved in essentially the same condition since the Solar

0:08:41.960 --> 0:08:45.400
<v Speaker 3>System was formed. So by looking at what it's made

0:08:45.440 --> 0:08:47.600
<v Speaker 3>of we can learn more about the early days of

0:08:47.640 --> 0:08:51.440
<v Speaker 3>the Solar system and learn about the initial distribution of

0:08:51.640 --> 0:08:56.160
<v Speaker 3>things of various minerals and organic compounds and things like that.

0:08:56.280 --> 0:08:59.280
<v Speaker 3>It'll help teach us more about how the Solar system

0:08:59.360 --> 0:09:03.319
<v Speaker 3>was formed and give us points of comparison between it

0:09:03.400 --> 0:09:05.560
<v Speaker 3>and other objects in the Solar System that have been

0:09:05.679 --> 0:09:10.280
<v Speaker 3>changed more over time. And so the spectral interpretation part

0:09:10.520 --> 0:09:13.360
<v Speaker 3>this refers to the use of spectral analysis and astronomy

0:09:13.400 --> 0:09:16.040
<v Speaker 3>looking at patterns of light colors reflected off of an

0:09:16.080 --> 0:09:20.520
<v Speaker 3>object to determine its composition. The respectral analysis of Binu,

0:09:20.640 --> 0:09:24.120
<v Speaker 3>of course, and there is spectral analysis of asteroids even

0:09:24.280 --> 0:09:29.360
<v Speaker 3>from just from telescopic observatories to try to determine their composition,

0:09:29.480 --> 0:09:33.200
<v Speaker 3>So it would help illuminate those questions as well. There

0:09:33.320 --> 0:09:36.920
<v Speaker 3>is a resource identification in the name that's understanding the

0:09:37.040 --> 0:09:40.920
<v Speaker 3>chemical and geological makeup of a carbon rich asteroid. The

0:09:40.960 --> 0:09:44.000
<v Speaker 3>security in the name is an interesting thing. Might think, wait,

0:09:44.280 --> 0:09:48.040
<v Speaker 3>what is this referra to security? Well, that refers to

0:09:48.320 --> 0:09:51.800
<v Speaker 3>security for the whole of Earth, because it turns out,

0:09:51.840 --> 0:09:55.480
<v Speaker 3>of all the asteroids we know about today, Binu is

0:09:55.559 --> 0:09:59.160
<v Speaker 3>one of the most potentially dangerous to our planet Binu

0:09:59.320 --> 0:10:03.360
<v Speaker 3>passes near to Earth about once every six years, and

0:10:03.640 --> 0:10:07.600
<v Speaker 3>scientists have calculated that in the year twenty one eighty two,

0:10:08.280 --> 0:10:10.960
<v Speaker 3>its path will bring it close enough that there is

0:10:11.040 --> 0:10:14.080
<v Speaker 3>about a one in twenty seven hundred chance of a

0:10:14.200 --> 0:10:17.600
<v Speaker 3>collision on that pass. So you can get some relief

0:10:17.640 --> 0:10:21.440
<v Speaker 3>from the relentless like asteroid bound for Earth headlines in

0:10:21.440 --> 0:10:25.319
<v Speaker 3>that when it comes to the larger known space objects,

0:10:25.880 --> 0:10:28.280
<v Speaker 3>even the most troubling ones won't get close to us

0:10:28.280 --> 0:10:30.440
<v Speaker 3>for a long time, and even when they do, based

0:10:30.480 --> 0:10:32.920
<v Speaker 3>on what we know today, the chances of a direct

0:10:33.000 --> 0:10:36.840
<v Speaker 3>hit are like one in several thousand at worst. Now,

0:10:36.920 --> 0:10:39.959
<v Speaker 3>how bad would it be if Binu did hit Earth.

0:10:40.080 --> 0:10:43.520
<v Speaker 3>It would be not as bad as some impacts in

0:10:43.600 --> 0:10:47.400
<v Speaker 3>Earth's history, but it would be quite bad. Benu is

0:10:47.400 --> 0:10:51.160
<v Speaker 3>about half a kilometer wide with a mass of about

0:10:51.200 --> 0:10:54.600
<v Speaker 3>sixty seven million metric tons, so it would probably not

0:10:54.800 --> 0:10:58.160
<v Speaker 3>be large enough to cause worldwide calamity. It wouldn't be

0:10:58.240 --> 0:11:01.160
<v Speaker 3>like the you know, the object to sonociated with the

0:11:01.200 --> 0:11:03.400
<v Speaker 3>death of the non avian dinosaurs. It would not be

0:11:03.440 --> 0:11:07.120
<v Speaker 3>like the KPg extinction object, but it would It would

0:11:07.160 --> 0:11:10.880
<v Speaker 3>be bad. It would be extremely locally destructive, depending on

0:11:11.000 --> 0:11:14.680
<v Speaker 3>where and how it hit. So part of the mission

0:11:14.920 --> 0:11:18.600
<v Speaker 3>was also focused on studying the forces acting on the

0:11:18.679 --> 0:11:22.840
<v Speaker 3>trajectory of asteroids so we can better predict their course

0:11:23.040 --> 0:11:27.280
<v Speaker 3>over time, because probably the single thing we need to

0:11:27.559 --> 0:11:33.079
<v Speaker 3>best understand in order to defend Earth from dangerous near

0:11:33.120 --> 0:11:38.040
<v Speaker 3>Earth objects is a very accurate prediction system for the

0:11:38.080 --> 0:11:42.760
<v Speaker 3>future movements of space objects. Right now, we can predict

0:11:42.800 --> 0:11:47.199
<v Speaker 3>with pretty good accuracy, but over time that accuracy degrades

0:11:47.280 --> 0:11:49.920
<v Speaker 3>right so the farther out into the future you're looking,

0:11:50.360 --> 0:11:54.280
<v Speaker 3>the harder it is to predict how close something is

0:11:54.320 --> 0:11:58.480
<v Speaker 3>going to be. And specifically, the Osiris REX mission was

0:11:58.520 --> 0:12:02.160
<v Speaker 3>looking at the influence of something the Yarkovsky effect, and

0:12:02.559 --> 0:12:05.199
<v Speaker 3>to do a short summary of that. When an asteroid

0:12:05.360 --> 0:12:08.800
<v Speaker 3>is flying through space and rotating, this is specifically for

0:12:08.880 --> 0:12:14.480
<v Speaker 3>a rotating object, its surface goes through patterns of heating

0:12:14.600 --> 0:12:18.160
<v Speaker 3>and cooling depending on which side is facing the sun.

0:12:18.600 --> 0:12:20.880
<v Speaker 3>So as one side of the asteroid faces the sun,

0:12:20.960 --> 0:12:24.040
<v Speaker 3>it gets star baked and it heats up, and then

0:12:24.080 --> 0:12:27.719
<v Speaker 3>as the asteroid rotates, the hot side turns away from

0:12:27.760 --> 0:12:31.520
<v Speaker 3>the Sun and cools, and that cooling means the asteroid

0:12:31.600 --> 0:12:37.840
<v Speaker 3>is radiating infrared photons into space. This radiation actually provides

0:12:38.040 --> 0:12:42.800
<v Speaker 3>its own small amount of thrust, so as it's radiating

0:12:42.840 --> 0:12:45.640
<v Speaker 3>that heat off into space, there's a bit of a

0:12:45.679 --> 0:12:50.520
<v Speaker 3>push created there, and the effect is fairly small, but

0:12:50.800 --> 0:12:55.120
<v Speaker 3>for relatively small objects and affecting the path over large

0:12:55.160 --> 0:12:57.880
<v Speaker 3>periods of time, it can make a big difference. This

0:12:58.040 --> 0:13:01.680
<v Speaker 3>does affect the asteroid's path through space, which makes it

0:13:01.720 --> 0:13:05.120
<v Speaker 3>harder to predict the orbit of a rotating asteroid farther

0:13:05.200 --> 0:13:07.520
<v Speaker 3>into the future. And that's something that we need to

0:13:07.520 --> 0:13:10.199
<v Speaker 3>be able to do if we want to identify threatening

0:13:10.200 --> 0:13:13.480
<v Speaker 3>near Earth objects and protect Earth by potentially pushing them

0:13:13.520 --> 0:13:14.480
<v Speaker 3>off course.

0:13:14.960 --> 0:13:17.760
<v Speaker 2>Right right, which to your point is is essential with

0:13:17.840 --> 0:13:21.160
<v Speaker 2>objects that we already know are going to get maybe

0:13:21.160 --> 0:13:23.680
<v Speaker 2>a little too close for comfort. Anyway, we need a

0:13:23.720 --> 0:13:27.720
<v Speaker 2>note like to what degree these estimates can be off,

0:13:27.760 --> 0:13:31.600
<v Speaker 2>you know, exactly how much sway there is in the

0:13:31.600 --> 0:13:34.439
<v Speaker 2>movement of one of these asteroids in our predictions exactly.

0:13:34.559 --> 0:13:37.000
<v Speaker 3>And then finally, so that's the OSIRIS part of the name.

0:13:37.040 --> 0:13:40.280
<v Speaker 3>That finally there's the REX part that stands for Regolith Explorer,

0:13:40.760 --> 0:13:43.880
<v Speaker 3>and this is the sample return aspect of the mission.

0:13:44.559 --> 0:13:49.000
<v Speaker 3>So OSIRIS REX was the first successful US mission to

0:13:49.240 --> 0:13:51.320
<v Speaker 3>return a sample from an asteroid that it was not

0:13:51.640 --> 0:13:56.479
<v Speaker 3>the first such mission worldwide. Actually, the first successful asteroid

0:13:56.520 --> 0:13:59.959
<v Speaker 3>sample return was carried out by the Japanese space Agent

0:14:00.120 --> 0:14:03.640
<v Speaker 3>See That was the Hyabusa probe, which got a sample

0:14:03.720 --> 0:14:07.559
<v Speaker 3>of small dust grains from an asteroid called twenty five

0:14:07.640 --> 0:14:11.080
<v Speaker 3>one forty three Itokawa and returned to the material to

0:14:11.160 --> 0:14:14.680
<v Speaker 3>Earth in twenty ten. Though Osiris Rex is not just

0:14:14.720 --> 0:14:17.680
<v Speaker 3>a duplicate of that mission because it targeted a different

0:14:17.840 --> 0:14:21.160
<v Speaker 3>type of asteroid, and also Binu was able to get

0:14:21.520 --> 0:14:25.040
<v Speaker 3>a lot more just mass of material returned to Earth

0:14:25.080 --> 0:14:27.880
<v Speaker 3>for us to work on. Now here's something about the

0:14:28.000 --> 0:14:31.440
<v Speaker 3>naming of this asteroid that is kind of backwards of

0:14:31.480 --> 0:14:33.680
<v Speaker 3>which is kind of the opposite of what you might expect.

0:14:34.080 --> 0:14:38.880
<v Speaker 3>The asteroid Binu got its name by association with the

0:14:38.920 --> 0:14:42.760
<v Speaker 3>Osiris REX mission, so it was originally called nineteen ninety

0:14:42.840 --> 0:14:46.480
<v Speaker 3>nine RQ thirty six, but in advance of the mission

0:14:46.600 --> 0:14:51.160
<v Speaker 3>in twenty thirteen, the Planetary Society held a competition to

0:14:51.320 --> 0:14:55.240
<v Speaker 3>name the asteroid, and a kid from North Carolina who

0:14:55.280 --> 0:14:58.560
<v Speaker 3>is nine years old at the time named Mike Pusio

0:14:59.680 --> 0:15:02.640
<v Speaker 3>came up with the idea of naming it Binu, which

0:15:02.760 --> 0:15:06.840
<v Speaker 3>was the name of a pre existing deity from Egyptian mythology,

0:15:07.320 --> 0:15:11.080
<v Speaker 3>an animal formed god, often depicted as a long legged bird,

0:15:11.280 --> 0:15:14.480
<v Speaker 3>though there's some dispute over which natural bird, if any,

0:15:14.520 --> 0:15:17.400
<v Speaker 3>it's supposed to correspond to. I'll talk about that a

0:15:17.400 --> 0:15:21.000
<v Speaker 3>bit more in a minute, but Puzio apparently picked the

0:15:21.080 --> 0:15:26.640
<v Speaker 3>name for the asteroid because of the Osiris rex probes

0:15:26.800 --> 0:15:30.080
<v Speaker 3>resemblance to a long legged bird and rob if you look,

0:15:30.240 --> 0:15:33.720
<v Speaker 3>I attached an image of the spacecraft here for you

0:15:33.760 --> 0:15:36.520
<v Speaker 3>to have a gander at. I can see this here,

0:15:36.560 --> 0:15:40.360
<v Speaker 3>So the solar panel flaps are very much like wings.

0:15:40.760 --> 0:15:43.840
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, excellent. I got to hand it to this

0:15:43.960 --> 0:15:47.280
<v Speaker 2>nine year old. This is a great space nerd and

0:15:47.320 --> 0:15:53.360
<v Speaker 2>a great mythology nerd. Two great nerdoms for anyone, especially

0:15:53.640 --> 0:15:54.640
<v Speaker 2>this at this age.

0:15:54.840 --> 0:15:57.080
<v Speaker 3>Now we're getting a little off track of the mission here,

0:15:57.120 --> 0:16:01.920
<v Speaker 3>but I actually got interested in the concept of Binu itself,

0:16:02.560 --> 0:16:05.160
<v Speaker 3>and the context of this episode is the Egyptian mythology,

0:16:05.200 --> 0:16:07.720
<v Speaker 3>So I wanted to follow this tunnel under the pyramids

0:16:07.720 --> 0:16:11.520
<v Speaker 3>for a moment. So Binu, you can if you're looking

0:16:11.520 --> 0:16:14.440
<v Speaker 3>this up. It's sometimes as the god's name is spelled

0:16:14.480 --> 0:16:16.880
<v Speaker 3>Binu with two ends or Binu with one n so

0:16:17.040 --> 0:16:20.440
<v Speaker 3>b e n u. Sometimes the asteroid is with two ends.

0:16:21.800 --> 0:16:26.000
<v Speaker 3>It is a figure associated with the creation of the

0:16:26.040 --> 0:16:29.360
<v Speaker 3>world and with the creator Sun God. And for what

0:16:29.440 --> 0:16:33.320
<v Speaker 3>I'm about to discuss my main sources Geraldine Pinch's Handbook

0:16:33.400 --> 0:16:38.400
<v Speaker 3>of Egyptian Mythology. So, according to Pinch, in some Egyptian myths,

0:16:38.520 --> 0:16:43.240
<v Speaker 3>Binu is said to be the oldest creature living. During

0:16:43.280 --> 0:16:46.360
<v Speaker 3>the creation of the world, when a hill of dry

0:16:46.520 --> 0:16:49.200
<v Speaker 3>land was first raised out of the darkness, out of

0:16:49.200 --> 0:16:53.360
<v Speaker 3>the waters of chaos, the Binu bird landed on this earth,

0:16:53.520 --> 0:16:56.880
<v Speaker 3>so it was the first living animal, and its cry

0:16:57.280 --> 0:17:01.400
<v Speaker 3>was the first sound. The moment of its marked the

0:17:01.440 --> 0:17:04.679
<v Speaker 3>first moment of time, and the cry of the Binu

0:17:04.720 --> 0:17:07.679
<v Speaker 3>bird will also sound again at the end of the

0:17:07.680 --> 0:17:10.399
<v Speaker 3>world to mark the time when all order will again

0:17:10.440 --> 0:17:14.840
<v Speaker 3>descend into chaos. The Binu bird seems to have been

0:17:14.880 --> 0:17:18.480
<v Speaker 3>related to, or possibly the inspiration for, the Greek myth

0:17:18.600 --> 0:17:22.399
<v Speaker 3>of the phoenix. In the Egyptian context, there was a

0:17:22.440 --> 0:17:26.560
<v Speaker 3>Binu bird that was believed to dwell in Heliopolis, and

0:17:27.000 --> 0:17:29.639
<v Speaker 3>kings would pray to the bird for the renewal of

0:17:29.760 --> 0:17:33.040
<v Speaker 3>strength after they had been in power for thirty years

0:17:33.400 --> 0:17:35.560
<v Speaker 3>and here, I just want to read a section from

0:17:35.600 --> 0:17:39.000
<v Speaker 3>Pinch on the connection between the Binu bird and Osiris

0:17:39.000 --> 0:17:42.760
<v Speaker 3>as well as another major god from the pantheon. Quote,

0:17:43.240 --> 0:17:46.879
<v Speaker 3>both Ray and Osiris could be identified with the Binu bird,

0:17:47.000 --> 0:17:51.080
<v Speaker 3>an expression of the secret knowledge that these two gods

0:17:51.200 --> 0:17:55.680
<v Speaker 3>were one. As a manifestation of Osiris, the Binu bird

0:17:55.840 --> 0:17:58.600
<v Speaker 3>led the spirits of the dead through the dangers of

0:17:58.640 --> 0:18:02.040
<v Speaker 3>the underworld. Some spells in the Book of the Dead

0:18:02.480 --> 0:18:06.800
<v Speaker 3>aim to assist the dead to transform themselves into Binu

0:18:06.880 --> 0:18:10.720
<v Speaker 3>birds so that they can travel freely between worlds.

0:18:12.200 --> 0:18:14.119
<v Speaker 2>All right, So a kind of psycho bomb here.

0:18:14.560 --> 0:18:16.800
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I think it's interesting that you would you would

0:18:16.840 --> 0:18:20.240
<v Speaker 3>get both that. So the binu could be a creature

0:18:20.320 --> 0:18:23.520
<v Speaker 3>that's sort of a guide because remember in you know,

0:18:23.560 --> 0:18:27.560
<v Speaker 3>there are different visions of the Egyptian afterlife. But in

0:18:27.920 --> 0:18:30.520
<v Speaker 3>some views of this, you know, it's a it's an adventure.

0:18:30.680 --> 0:18:32.640
<v Speaker 3>It's like a journey that you have to go through

0:18:32.680 --> 0:18:35.440
<v Speaker 3>and face obstacles along the way. And there is also

0:18:35.920 --> 0:18:38.800
<v Speaker 3>there's the famous judgment, the weighing of the heart against

0:18:38.840 --> 0:18:41.639
<v Speaker 3>the feather of Mott. But there there are also you know,

0:18:41.680 --> 0:18:44.800
<v Speaker 3>these these trials you must go through, like facing facing,

0:18:44.920 --> 0:18:48.159
<v Speaker 3>dangers throughout the landscape of the dead, and the Binu

0:18:48.200 --> 0:18:52.720
<v Speaker 3>bird here apparently apparently could be a guide in that process.

0:18:53.040 --> 0:18:55.240
<v Speaker 3>But you could also, if you knew the right spells,

0:18:55.359 --> 0:18:58.200
<v Speaker 3>just turn into a Binu bird, which seems even better.

0:18:59.359 --> 0:19:01.639
<v Speaker 3>Now coming back to whether this bird has a counterpart

0:19:01.680 --> 0:19:06.159
<v Speaker 3>in nature, early texts describing the Binu bird seem to

0:19:06.200 --> 0:19:09.600
<v Speaker 3>be talking about a yellow wagtail, which is a small

0:19:09.640 --> 0:19:13.240
<v Speaker 3>bird that eats insects and tends to seek out wet,

0:19:13.320 --> 0:19:17.679
<v Speaker 3>open countries such as marshland. However, Pinch notes that in

0:19:17.800 --> 0:19:21.360
<v Speaker 3>later art the binu bird is depicted somewhat differently as

0:19:21.400 --> 0:19:25.680
<v Speaker 3>a huge heron, and this is why you'll see pictures

0:19:25.680 --> 0:19:28.920
<v Speaker 3>of a heron often if you google binu. This is

0:19:29.119 --> 0:19:31.800
<v Speaker 3>I think more New Kingdom art. And I found a

0:19:31.800 --> 0:19:33.360
<v Speaker 3>photo of some of this art for you to look

0:19:33.400 --> 0:19:36.359
<v Speaker 3>at here, rob In the outline here Binu is a

0:19:36.400 --> 0:19:38.919
<v Speaker 3>heron that would have been taller than a human with

0:19:38.960 --> 0:19:41.880
<v Speaker 3>its neck outstretched, so a very big heron and extant

0:19:41.960 --> 0:19:46.280
<v Speaker 3>herons can get quite large. The still living Goliath heron

0:19:46.520 --> 0:19:50.080
<v Speaker 3>or Ardia goliath can reach a height of about five

0:19:50.119 --> 0:19:53.800
<v Speaker 3>feet or roughly one hundred and fifty centimeters, but Apparently

0:19:54.400 --> 0:19:58.320
<v Speaker 3>there was an extinct giant heron that grew even larger,

0:19:59.200 --> 0:20:04.160
<v Speaker 3>known today as the Binu heron or Arda binuids, bones

0:20:04.200 --> 0:20:07.439
<v Speaker 3>of which have been found from the Arabian Peninsula dating

0:20:07.480 --> 0:20:10.959
<v Speaker 3>back to the third millennium BCE. So this is a

0:20:11.040 --> 0:20:14.520
<v Speaker 3>giant heron that would have been alive during human history

0:20:14.560 --> 0:20:18.480
<v Speaker 3>here and so this isn't known, but it has been

0:20:18.640 --> 0:20:22.840
<v Speaker 3>speculated that this bird could have inspired the iconography of

0:20:22.880 --> 0:20:26.400
<v Speaker 3>Binu and thus also perhaps the story of the Phoenix.

0:20:27.080 --> 0:20:30.240
<v Speaker 3>Fascinating now, how much larger was this like a twenty

0:20:30.280 --> 0:20:35.280
<v Speaker 3>foot tall heron? No, it is bigger than any living heron,

0:20:35.920 --> 0:20:37.680
<v Speaker 3>but not by a huge amount. I think it would

0:20:37.720 --> 0:20:39.720
<v Speaker 3>have been roughly maybe six feet tall.

0:20:40.080 --> 0:20:42.800
<v Speaker 2>Still a big bird, yeah, absolutely, I mean it just

0:20:43.600 --> 0:20:46.159
<v Speaker 2>thevery any kind of heron species you encounter in the wild.

0:20:46.200 --> 0:20:50.359
<v Speaker 2>It's it's kind of a breathtaking and magical experience and

0:20:50.640 --> 0:20:56.200
<v Speaker 2>imagining like the largest of heron's here, this extinct species,

0:20:56.280 --> 0:21:15.959
<v Speaker 2>this would have been quite an impressive side.

0:21:08.760 --> 0:21:11.280
<v Speaker 3>Now, before we move on from Osiris Rex, there is

0:21:11.480 --> 0:21:13.960
<v Speaker 3>one interesting thing I wanted to talk about from the

0:21:14.320 --> 0:21:19.520
<v Speaker 3>sampling portion of the mission. Apparently this asteroid had some

0:21:19.720 --> 0:21:23.080
<v Speaker 3>surprises waiting for us when we got there. So I

0:21:23.160 --> 0:21:26.360
<v Speaker 3>mentioned already that the sampling mechanism how it would work

0:21:26.400 --> 0:21:28.639
<v Speaker 3>to get some of the regulars from the surface of

0:21:28.640 --> 0:21:33.159
<v Speaker 3>this asteroid. It did not involve a permanent landing, so

0:21:33.200 --> 0:21:35.320
<v Speaker 3>you didn't have to worry about that. It was a

0:21:35.359 --> 0:21:38.360
<v Speaker 3>touch and go operation, so you would descend, you would

0:21:38.440 --> 0:21:42.520
<v Speaker 3>poke the surface with the sampling arm, issue a blast

0:21:42.560 --> 0:21:45.600
<v Speaker 3>of nitrogen gas, scoop up a bunch of what was

0:21:45.600 --> 0:21:49.600
<v Speaker 3>stirred up, and then blast off and retreat immediately. But

0:21:49.720 --> 0:21:55.480
<v Speaker 3>despite this, once we actually reached the asteroid, it proved

0:21:55.520 --> 0:21:58.520
<v Speaker 3>a lot trickier of an object to touch down on

0:21:58.720 --> 0:22:02.080
<v Speaker 3>than was initially expected because it had been thought that

0:22:02.160 --> 0:22:05.359
<v Speaker 3>the surface of Binu would be relatively smooth, or at

0:22:05.400 --> 0:22:09.600
<v Speaker 3>least have large smooth patches. I think the asteroid that

0:22:09.720 --> 0:22:13.840
<v Speaker 3>had been targeted by the Japanese Hyabusa probe had more

0:22:13.920 --> 0:22:16.960
<v Speaker 3>kind of beachy areas, you know, with like smooth, fine

0:22:17.000 --> 0:22:20.160
<v Speaker 3>grained areas where you know you could select a good

0:22:20.240 --> 0:22:23.639
<v Speaker 3>landing zone. But for some reason, Binu was when we

0:22:23.720 --> 0:22:26.640
<v Speaker 3>got there, more of a sort of a hell of boulders.

0:22:27.240 --> 0:22:31.400
<v Speaker 3>It was a very rocky bouldery surface, more uneven than expected,

0:22:31.760 --> 0:22:34.840
<v Speaker 3>so the team had to very carefully map out the

0:22:34.880 --> 0:22:37.800
<v Speaker 3>surface to select an ideal landing spot, and there were

0:22:37.840 --> 0:22:42.080
<v Speaker 3>not many. They ended up selecting a place that was

0:22:42.119 --> 0:22:45.719
<v Speaker 3>known as the Nightingale Crater. But then there was another

0:22:45.800 --> 0:22:49.840
<v Speaker 3>surprise waiting when they actually went to initiate the touchdown

0:22:50.119 --> 0:22:55.399
<v Speaker 3>and sample retrieval moment. So the craft was descending and

0:22:55.480 --> 0:22:59.800
<v Speaker 3>it poked the asteroid, and then the sampling arm sank.

0:23:00.359 --> 0:23:03.520
<v Speaker 3>It sank into the surface. I've seen this described as

0:23:03.560 --> 0:23:06.720
<v Speaker 3>like poking into a swamp. Now, of course, it's not

0:23:06.840 --> 0:23:12.400
<v Speaker 3>actually that there was liquid water on the surface of Binu. Instead,

0:23:12.480 --> 0:23:17.080
<v Speaker 3>it's just that the soil covering its surface was a

0:23:17.440 --> 0:23:20.800
<v Speaker 3>lower density than expected, so the sampling arm just kind

0:23:20.800 --> 0:23:25.040
<v Speaker 3>of plunged in. I want to read a quote here

0:23:25.080 --> 0:23:29.000
<v Speaker 3>from a space dot com article by Teresa Pultova talking

0:23:29.080 --> 0:23:29.800
<v Speaker 3>about this moment.

0:23:30.560 --> 0:23:30.879
<v Speaker 2>Quote.

0:23:31.480 --> 0:23:34.880
<v Speaker 3>The descent was smooth, but when Osiris wrex' sample collection

0:23:35.000 --> 0:23:39.920
<v Speaker 3>device pressed into the asteroid surface, something unexpected happened. Contrary

0:23:39.920 --> 0:23:44.040
<v Speaker 3>to expectations, the surface behaved almost like a swamp. Within

0:23:44.080 --> 0:23:48.040
<v Speaker 3>a few seconds, the spacecraft sank nineteen inches or fifty

0:23:48.119 --> 0:23:52.679
<v Speaker 3>centimeters deep into Binu as the sample collection had sucked

0:23:52.720 --> 0:23:56.639
<v Speaker 3>in the sample, and the spacecraft's backaway thrusters fired, a

0:23:56.840 --> 0:24:01.080
<v Speaker 3>huge wall of debris rose from the crater, engulfing the

0:24:01.119 --> 0:24:05.960
<v Speaker 3>ascending spacecraft and rob I've attached some pictures for you

0:24:06.000 --> 0:24:08.320
<v Speaker 3>to look at here, because there's sort of like an

0:24:08.359 --> 0:24:13.280
<v Speaker 3>animation you can look up of this of the spacecraft's camera.

0:24:14.119 --> 0:24:18.120
<v Speaker 3>It had a camera facing directly down along the axis

0:24:18.160 --> 0:24:21.440
<v Speaker 3>of the sampling arm, so you're looking down as it's

0:24:21.480 --> 0:24:24.439
<v Speaker 3>descending towards the surface, and you can just see when

0:24:24.520 --> 0:24:26.919
<v Speaker 3>it touches suddenly it goes in and then there's this

0:24:27.080 --> 0:24:30.840
<v Speaker 3>explosion and there's just stuff all over the place, and

0:24:30.880 --> 0:24:33.399
<v Speaker 3>then it zooms back out and you can see like

0:24:33.560 --> 0:24:38.200
<v Speaker 3>before and after images of the crater where it touched down,

0:24:38.240 --> 0:24:41.320
<v Speaker 3>where like major rocks and boulders are moved all over

0:24:41.359 --> 0:24:44.239
<v Speaker 3>the place. It just seems like this is you know,

0:24:44.440 --> 0:24:48.880
<v Speaker 3>it reminds you that asteroids, especially smaller asteroids like this,

0:24:49.119 --> 0:24:54.680
<v Speaker 3>are not necessarily not necessarily solid objects. That it might

0:24:54.720 --> 0:24:57.080
<v Speaker 3>be better to think of something like Binu not as

0:24:57.160 --> 0:25:00.359
<v Speaker 3>like a solid hunk of rock in space, but like

0:25:00.400 --> 0:25:06.080
<v Speaker 3>a big pile of rubble that's loosely bound together by gravity. Wow.

0:25:06.600 --> 0:25:09.719
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, I mean even in our descriptions of like

0:25:09.760 --> 0:25:11.920
<v Speaker 2>the size of these things, we compare them to things

0:25:11.960 --> 0:25:15.000
<v Speaker 2>like skyscrapers, you know, or how big they are in

0:25:15.040 --> 0:25:17.360
<v Speaker 2>comparison to a car, So we tend to get these

0:25:17.400 --> 0:25:20.399
<v Speaker 2>kind of solid ideas in our mind. Yeah, towards to

0:25:20.440 --> 0:25:24.399
<v Speaker 2>your point, it's more like a big ball of accumulated

0:25:24.480 --> 0:25:25.200
<v Speaker 2>space rubble.

0:25:25.480 --> 0:25:27.680
<v Speaker 3>Yeah. But despite the fact that it was a hell

0:25:27.720 --> 0:25:30.960
<v Speaker 3>of boulders and sort of a dry swamp of sadness,

0:25:31.000 --> 0:25:34.880
<v Speaker 3>the mission was a success. We got plenty of material

0:25:34.920 --> 0:25:38.000
<v Speaker 3>from the surface. I think the initial goal was to

0:25:38.000 --> 0:25:40.399
<v Speaker 3>get at least sixty grams and they got well over that,

0:25:40.480 --> 0:25:43.920
<v Speaker 3>so plenty of material to study. And now the spacecraft

0:25:44.000 --> 0:25:48.720
<v Speaker 3>is being repurposed. It is slated to enter the orbit

0:25:48.840 --> 0:25:53.320
<v Speaker 3>of the asteroid Apofice in twenty twenty nine. Apotus, by

0:25:53.359 --> 0:25:55.800
<v Speaker 3>the way, another Egyptian mythology tie in.

0:25:56.440 --> 0:25:58.960
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, this is the great Serpent. I believe right.

0:25:59.240 --> 0:26:03.520
<v Speaker 3>It's a monster god figure associated with chaos and destruction,

0:26:03.760 --> 0:26:05.840
<v Speaker 3>kind of reptilian in nature.

0:26:06.280 --> 0:26:10.159
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, Pinch describes it. It's sometimes depicted more like

0:26:10.200 --> 0:26:12.520
<v Speaker 2>a crocodile, but more frequently as a great serpent, and

0:26:12.560 --> 0:26:15.439
<v Speaker 2>it is like it is one of, if not the

0:26:15.480 --> 0:26:21.480
<v Speaker 2>most important chaos monster of Egyptian mythology.

0:26:22.280 --> 0:26:26.639
<v Speaker 3>But interesting thing to study because Apophus was previously thought

0:26:27.200 --> 0:26:31.879
<v Speaker 3>to be an asteroid that may in fact threaten Earth,

0:26:32.080 --> 0:26:36.840
<v Speaker 3>but because of the unpredictability of its orbit, when later

0:26:36.880 --> 0:26:39.440
<v Speaker 3>we got more precision about its trajectory, it was sort

0:26:39.440 --> 0:26:41.760
<v Speaker 3>of ruled out. So for a while people were thinking, oh,

0:26:41.840 --> 0:26:44.960
<v Speaker 3>this one might really be a candidate for danger, but

0:26:45.200 --> 0:26:48.480
<v Speaker 3>actually now it's it's nothing to worry about, but still

0:26:48.600 --> 0:26:49.280
<v Speaker 3>worth study.

0:26:49.640 --> 0:26:53.040
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, And the more we understand how these things

0:26:53.119 --> 0:26:56.400
<v Speaker 2>move and what impacts their course, the more we can

0:26:56.520 --> 0:26:59.240
<v Speaker 2>protect ourselves, and the more the more information we have

0:26:59.320 --> 0:27:05.120
<v Speaker 2>moving forward. Thus, again the security aspect of the Osiris

0:27:05.160 --> 0:27:09.359
<v Speaker 2>rex that we just described earlier, that's o Cyrus rex

0:27:09.840 --> 0:27:12.639
<v Speaker 2>in all caps except for the X, because again it

0:27:12.720 --> 0:27:17.000
<v Speaker 2>is a regular explorer at the end. All right, Well,

0:27:17.040 --> 0:27:19.439
<v Speaker 2>from there, the next logical place to go is of

0:27:19.440 --> 0:27:23.879
<v Speaker 2>course to talk about bees, perfect and in general. You know,

0:27:23.960 --> 0:27:26.639
<v Speaker 2>this is a fine area of connection for an Egyptian god,

0:27:26.680 --> 0:27:30.880
<v Speaker 2>because the ancient Egyptians were particularly connected with the honeybee.

0:27:32.800 --> 0:27:35.680
<v Speaker 2>As biologist, author and former guests on the show Jen

0:27:35.760 --> 0:27:38.760
<v Speaker 2>Kritsky points out in his excellent twenty fifteen book The

0:27:38.800 --> 0:27:43.000
<v Speaker 2>Tiers of Ray. The honey bee was a pervasive cultural

0:27:43.040 --> 0:27:45.680
<v Speaker 2>motif in ancient Egypt, in large part because of their

0:27:46.640 --> 0:27:50.840
<v Speaker 2>perceived connection to the sun god Ray or Raw, whose

0:27:50.960 --> 0:27:54.200
<v Speaker 2>very tears were said to be honeybees. And on top

0:27:54.240 --> 0:27:56.960
<v Speaker 2>of this, honey and other bee products like wax were

0:27:57.000 --> 0:28:01.120
<v Speaker 2>prized and used for a variety of medicinal, culinary, very religious,

0:28:01.160 --> 0:28:05.760
<v Speaker 2>and economic purposes. So again, that's that's that's the god

0:28:05.840 --> 0:28:09.040
<v Speaker 2>ray or Raw. And you know, as we already alluded

0:28:09.040 --> 0:28:11.919
<v Speaker 2>to in this episode, there are connections between Ray and

0:28:12.000 --> 0:28:15.280
<v Speaker 2>Raw and of Cyrus. But you may be wondering, okay,

0:28:15.320 --> 0:28:19.639
<v Speaker 2>are there any specific bee connections to Osiris? So I

0:28:19.680 --> 0:28:22.080
<v Speaker 2>have Kritsky's book on the shelf here, so I picked

0:28:22.119 --> 0:28:24.080
<v Speaker 2>it up and I consulted it once more to see

0:28:24.600 --> 0:28:28.000
<v Speaker 2>what he had to say specifically about Osiris. So I'm

0:28:28.040 --> 0:28:30.560
<v Speaker 2>going to run through just a few examples here. The

0:28:30.600 --> 0:28:34.760
<v Speaker 2>book includes an image from the Tomb of Usarat depicting

0:28:34.960 --> 0:28:40.000
<v Speaker 2>the offering of honeycomb to Osiris. So this is Theban

0:28:40.080 --> 0:28:43.280
<v Speaker 2>Tomb t. T. Fifty six in the Theban Necropolis near

0:28:43.360 --> 0:28:47.680
<v Speaker 2>Luxor New Kingdom period. I believe he also has an

0:28:47.680 --> 0:28:51.760
<v Speaker 2>example He mentions the Tomb of Minmos, which includes the

0:28:51.800 --> 0:28:58.360
<v Speaker 2>passage Osiris bee keeper of Aman, bearer of incense, minmost justified,

0:28:58.640 --> 0:29:02.000
<v Speaker 2>possessor of honor before the Great God, And this is

0:29:02.040 --> 0:29:06.040
<v Speaker 2>from the eighteenth or nineteenth dynasty, I believe indirectly. The

0:29:06.320 --> 0:29:10.400
<v Speaker 2>Salt eight twenty five Papyrus includes a spell that involves

0:29:10.520 --> 0:29:14.280
<v Speaker 2>using bees wax figures to quote kill the name of

0:29:14.360 --> 0:29:19.360
<v Speaker 2>Seth in this case used against Seth. But such figurines

0:29:19.400 --> 0:29:23.160
<v Speaker 2>made out of wax, which rarely survived, were seemingly burnt

0:29:23.280 --> 0:29:26.320
<v Speaker 2>in spells against mundane enemies as well, So you could

0:29:26.360 --> 0:29:30.320
<v Speaker 2>use them against great cosmic entities like Seth, but you

0:29:30.320 --> 0:29:33.080
<v Speaker 2>could also use them just to guess against your actual

0:29:33.160 --> 0:29:38.760
<v Speaker 2>real world enemies. Okay, and Kritzky also includes some other

0:29:38.840 --> 0:29:42.520
<v Speaker 2>mentions to support the idea that honey or honeycomb, in particular,

0:29:43.240 --> 0:29:47.680
<v Speaker 2>these were often used in temple rituals concerning gods, including

0:29:47.960 --> 0:29:50.479
<v Speaker 2>the God of Cyrus. So are we going to talk

0:29:50.480 --> 0:29:53.520
<v Speaker 2>about honey bees now? No, We're in fact going to

0:29:53.560 --> 0:29:57.240
<v Speaker 2>talk about a genus of bee found only in Central

0:29:57.280 --> 0:30:01.640
<v Speaker 2>and South America, so completely removed from ancient Egyptian culture,

0:30:02.000 --> 0:30:06.880
<v Speaker 2>but still named after Osiris. So the genus Osiris is

0:30:06.880 --> 0:30:12.680
<v Speaker 2>classified under the Osserini tribe, which in turn is classified

0:30:12.760 --> 0:30:16.600
<v Speaker 2>under the family Apidae, which itself contains well over five

0:30:16.640 --> 0:30:19.200
<v Speaker 2>thousand species of bees. So I looked at a few

0:30:19.200 --> 0:30:21.719
<v Speaker 2>different bee manuals on this. Ultimately we're dealing with some

0:30:21.760 --> 0:30:24.160
<v Speaker 2>bees here that are not as well researched, and we'll

0:30:24.160 --> 0:30:28.400
<v Speaker 2>get into some of the reasons for that. But as

0:30:28.600 --> 0:30:32.120
<v Speaker 2>Charles Duncan Mitchner, this guy was one of the leading

0:30:32.120 --> 0:30:35.120
<v Speaker 2>experts on bees who of nineteen eighteen through twenty fifteen.

0:30:35.640 --> 0:30:38.360
<v Speaker 2>He describes them in the Bees of the World, Volume

0:30:38.440 --> 0:30:43.360
<v Speaker 2>one from two thousand as colecto parasites. They seem to

0:30:43.560 --> 0:30:51.600
<v Speaker 2>have likely evolved independently of no benedet kleptoparasitic bees, and

0:30:51.720 --> 0:30:54.480
<v Speaker 2>this is based on various features that they have that

0:30:54.520 --> 0:30:57.800
<v Speaker 2>are also found in non parasitic bees, which are absent

0:30:58.080 --> 0:31:01.920
<v Speaker 2>in other examples of klepto paris bees. He points out

0:31:01.960 --> 0:31:07.640
<v Speaker 2>that Osiris bees have relatively thin, but smooth and shiny skins,

0:31:07.680 --> 0:31:10.800
<v Speaker 2>you know, kind of like smooth, shiny exoskeletons, and no

0:31:10.960 --> 0:31:15.880
<v Speaker 2>protective spines. But they do have an enormous sting and

0:31:15.920 --> 0:31:18.400
<v Speaker 2>this will we'll come back to some of the reasons

0:31:18.400 --> 0:31:22.000
<v Speaker 2>for this as we proceed here, but he writes that quote,

0:31:22.000 --> 0:31:26.160
<v Speaker 2>parasites commonly have stronger stings than their non parasitic relatives.

0:31:26.640 --> 0:31:29.400
<v Speaker 2>There are exceptions to that rule, but by and large

0:31:29.400 --> 0:31:33.600
<v Speaker 2>you'll find that they put far more evolutionary energy is

0:31:33.640 --> 0:31:37.800
<v Speaker 2>put into these kind of like offensive slash defensive weapons.

0:31:38.680 --> 0:31:40.560
<v Speaker 3>I already have some thoughts about why that might be,

0:31:40.680 --> 0:31:42.280
<v Speaker 3>but I bet you'll illuminate me.

0:31:42.680 --> 0:31:45.480
<v Speaker 2>So the whole gist of klepto parasites, as we've discussed

0:31:45.480 --> 0:31:47.640
<v Speaker 2>on the show before, comes down to the laying of

0:31:47.680 --> 0:31:50.960
<v Speaker 2>one species eggs in the nest of another species. And

0:31:50.960 --> 0:31:53.560
<v Speaker 2>the classic of that example of this from the world

0:31:53.560 --> 0:31:56.640
<v Speaker 2>of birds is of course the cuckoo bird, and here

0:31:56.720 --> 0:32:00.760
<v Speaker 2>we're talking about so called cuckoo bees. This is more

0:32:00.760 --> 0:32:04.360
<v Speaker 2>specifically known as brood parasitism. Another source I was looking

0:32:04.360 --> 0:32:06.640
<v Speaker 2>at for this is a really nice write up on

0:32:06.680 --> 0:32:12.680
<v Speaker 2>the topic on the website Entomology Today by Meredith sweet Walker,

0:32:13.280 --> 0:32:18.720
<v Speaker 2>and it's interesting. As a former avian endocrinologist, she seems

0:32:18.800 --> 0:32:22.440
<v Speaker 2>especially well positioned to compare cuckoo birds to cuckoo bees.

0:32:23.800 --> 0:32:26.360
<v Speaker 2>She points out that cuckoo bees are actually thought of

0:32:26.600 --> 0:32:29.400
<v Speaker 2>more generally as a social parasites as well, because they

0:32:29.560 --> 0:32:32.760
<v Speaker 2>generally have to infiltrate or in some cases anyway we'll

0:32:32.760 --> 0:32:35.440
<v Speaker 2>get into the details here. In many cases we're talking

0:32:35.440 --> 0:32:38.000
<v Speaker 2>about bees that have to infiltrate an entire use social

0:32:38.080 --> 0:32:41.880
<v Speaker 2>hive structure or nest structure in order to deposit their eggs.

0:32:42.240 --> 0:32:45.400
<v Speaker 2>So they can't simply sneak in, dump their egg and

0:32:45.480 --> 0:32:47.080
<v Speaker 2>run and be like he he, now you have to

0:32:47.120 --> 0:32:50.040
<v Speaker 2>raise my young. There's a lot more involved here.

0:32:50.040 --> 0:32:52.680
<v Speaker 3>Like they actually have to blend in with the hive.

0:32:52.840 --> 0:32:55.880
<v Speaker 2>Right, And I don't want to discredit the complexity of

0:32:56.000 --> 0:32:58.720
<v Speaker 2>cuckoo birds as we've talked about on the show before.

0:32:58.600 --> 0:33:03.560
<v Speaker 2>There's kind of like a mafia esque situation involved there

0:33:03.640 --> 0:33:06.400
<v Speaker 2>as well, with like additional so it's not just dump

0:33:06.440 --> 0:33:09.480
<v Speaker 2>and run with cuckoo birds either. But the world of

0:33:09.480 --> 0:33:11.840
<v Speaker 2>bees is different from the world of birds. So she

0:33:11.920 --> 0:33:15.000
<v Speaker 2>points out that in some species of bumble bee, we

0:33:15.040 --> 0:33:18.280
<v Speaker 2>see and we're talking about non parasitic bumblebees here, we

0:33:18.320 --> 0:33:22.480
<v Speaker 2>do see examples of nest usurpation, in which one queen

0:33:22.880 --> 0:33:26.560
<v Speaker 2>busts into the nest of another queen of her same species,

0:33:27.040 --> 0:33:31.040
<v Speaker 2>kills that queen and takes over the brood. So this

0:33:31.520 --> 0:33:34.400
<v Speaker 2>doesn't have to happen. It doesn't always happen, It only

0:33:34.400 --> 0:33:37.760
<v Speaker 2>occurs under certain ecological conditions. You could probably, you know,

0:33:37.800 --> 0:33:42.000
<v Speaker 2>compare this broadly to things like cannibalism, where you know,

0:33:42.040 --> 0:33:45.600
<v Speaker 2>you have species that are not obligate cannibals by any stretch,

0:33:45.680 --> 0:33:48.640
<v Speaker 2>but if conditions are right, they will engage in that behavior.

0:33:49.000 --> 0:33:54.040
<v Speaker 3>Right, Obligate cannibalism is impossible, yeah, but you can have

0:33:54.080 --> 0:33:57.560
<v Speaker 3>an adaptation that where a certain type of animal is

0:33:57.640 --> 0:34:02.000
<v Speaker 3>more inclined to resort to cannibalism if conditions are dire.

0:34:02.280 --> 0:34:06.840
<v Speaker 2>Right, right. So here with brood parasitism, we do, on

0:34:06.880 --> 0:34:10.359
<v Speaker 2>the other hand, have true klepto parasite bees that are

0:34:10.520 --> 0:34:14.480
<v Speaker 2>obligate brood parasites. They have evolved to depend on the

0:34:14.560 --> 0:34:19.239
<v Speaker 2>practice absolutely otherwise they can't reproduce at all, and obviously

0:34:19.320 --> 0:34:21.920
<v Speaker 2>all of their efforts have to be aimed on another

0:34:21.960 --> 0:34:25.640
<v Speaker 2>bee species. So that's sort of the origin story of

0:34:25.680 --> 0:34:27.080
<v Speaker 2>how we kind of get to this area where we

0:34:27.160 --> 0:34:32.640
<v Speaker 2>have obligate brood parasitic bees. So cuckoo bumblebees, she points out,

0:34:32.680 --> 0:34:36.040
<v Speaker 2>can't produce their own workers. They lack pollen baskets on

0:34:36.080 --> 0:34:39.360
<v Speaker 2>their legs. This prevents them from feeding their own offspring,

0:34:39.800 --> 0:34:42.319
<v Speaker 2>and they also can't produce enough wax to build their

0:34:42.320 --> 0:34:45.160
<v Speaker 2>own nests. So without those adaptations, you know, that kind

0:34:45.160 --> 0:34:49.960
<v Speaker 2>of frees you up from like an evolutionary energy standpoint,

0:34:50.400 --> 0:34:53.040
<v Speaker 2>where do they focus that extra energy? Will they focus

0:34:53.040 --> 0:34:58.400
<v Speaker 2>it into the blunt offensive power needed to conquer another brood?

0:34:58.840 --> 0:35:03.560
<v Speaker 2>So we're talking busting in, overpowering other workers. If workers

0:35:03.560 --> 0:35:09.279
<v Speaker 2>are present, killing the rival queen, and then taking over

0:35:09.320 --> 0:35:11.600
<v Speaker 2>the nest, And what do you need to carry this out? Well,

0:35:11.640 --> 0:35:14.720
<v Speaker 2>in many cases you need heavier armor to protect yourself,

0:35:15.000 --> 0:35:18.520
<v Speaker 2>more powerful mandibles, and key to what we just said earlier,

0:35:18.640 --> 0:35:24.160
<v Speaker 2>an enhanced stinger. But she stresses that target selection is

0:35:24.200 --> 0:35:26.520
<v Speaker 2>also key here because if they go after the if

0:35:26.560 --> 0:35:29.360
<v Speaker 2>a cuckoo bumblebee goes after a nest that's too large,

0:35:29.960 --> 0:35:32.200
<v Speaker 2>the workers are just going to overpower her and kill

0:35:32.239 --> 0:35:35.200
<v Speaker 2>her in self defense. And if the nest is too small,

0:35:35.520 --> 0:35:37.680
<v Speaker 2>while she may conquer it, but then there won't have there

0:35:37.680 --> 0:35:41.040
<v Speaker 2>won't be enough of a work force to serve her need.

0:35:41.239 --> 0:35:45.880
<v Speaker 2>So it's it's kind of a delicate balance. Interesting, but ultimately,

0:35:46.520 --> 0:35:49.680
<v Speaker 2>the battle and the regicide here is only the first

0:35:49.719 --> 0:35:53.040
<v Speaker 2>phase because Afterwards, the conqueror has to be able to

0:35:53.120 --> 0:35:56.640
<v Speaker 2>quickly de escalate things and convince the colony that she's

0:35:56.719 --> 0:36:00.880
<v Speaker 2>the rightful queen and that work can continue mostly as before.

0:36:01.320 --> 0:36:02.920
<v Speaker 2>And I guess you can. You know, you can easily

0:36:03.360 --> 0:36:07.439
<v Speaker 2>anthromorphize here and compare this to you know, examples from

0:36:07.480 --> 0:36:10.440
<v Speaker 2>like military history, like, Okay, you're going to conquer a kingdom,

0:36:10.480 --> 0:36:12.759
<v Speaker 2>but now what are you going to rule it? And

0:36:12.760 --> 0:36:14.200
<v Speaker 2>what do you have to do in order to pull

0:36:14.239 --> 0:36:14.640
<v Speaker 2>that off?

0:36:15.000 --> 0:36:17.800
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I guess there's some persuasion involved.

0:36:17.320 --> 0:36:20.400
<v Speaker 2>There, right, And so in the world of bees, scent

0:36:20.680 --> 0:36:25.080
<v Speaker 2>is absolutely key with the interloper, uh, the invader, the

0:36:25.200 --> 0:36:29.560
<v Speaker 2>klepto parasite, depending largely on one of two strategies depending

0:36:29.560 --> 0:36:33.520
<v Speaker 2>on species. So one strategy is simply scent acquisition. So

0:36:34.080 --> 0:36:38.040
<v Speaker 2>the cuckoo bees mumblebees that use this method, they don't

0:36:38.040 --> 0:36:39.960
<v Speaker 2>have much of a scent on their own. They're kind

0:36:39.960 --> 0:36:43.280
<v Speaker 2>of like scent neutral, you know, stealth scent, I guess,

0:36:43.640 --> 0:36:46.560
<v Speaker 2>and they just simply acquire the scent of the nest

0:36:46.680 --> 0:36:51.200
<v Speaker 2>they've invaded via contact with workers and various nest materials.

0:36:51.719 --> 0:36:54.600
<v Speaker 3>Okay, so there's stuff lying around that smells, right, you

0:36:54.640 --> 0:36:56.799
<v Speaker 3>can just kind of like rub yourself on all that

0:36:56.880 --> 0:36:58.080
<v Speaker 3>and it'll be good enough.

0:36:58.360 --> 0:37:01.920
<v Speaker 2>Right. But the more advanced method here is actual scent mimicry.

0:37:02.440 --> 0:37:04.759
<v Speaker 2>And this is a case where the cuckoo bumblebees in

0:37:04.840 --> 0:37:08.520
<v Speaker 2>question actively mimic the chemical cues of the host species.

0:37:08.960 --> 0:37:11.600
<v Speaker 3>Wow, I wonder what is the mechanism for doing that,

0:37:11.680 --> 0:37:14.879
<v Speaker 3>being able to like sample a smell and then recreate

0:37:14.920 --> 0:37:15.680
<v Speaker 3>it yourself.

0:37:16.480 --> 0:37:18.880
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, or you know, they have evolved over time to

0:37:19.280 --> 0:37:21.960
<v Speaker 2>prey on particular you know, a particular species or a

0:37:22.000 --> 0:37:26.120
<v Speaker 2>particular suite of species. I'm guessing here, So yeah, it's

0:37:26.239 --> 0:37:28.520
<v Speaker 2>it's it's interesting, like in one case, either just simply

0:37:28.560 --> 0:37:33.560
<v Speaker 2>acquiring the necessary sense to command the new environment, or

0:37:33.800 --> 0:37:36.880
<v Speaker 2>you have evolved over time to be able to mimic

0:37:37.000 --> 0:37:38.400
<v Speaker 2>the necessary chemical cues.

0:37:39.000 --> 0:37:39.080
<v Speaker 1>Uh.

0:37:39.239 --> 0:37:43.560
<v Speaker 2>In either case, it is, it's it's it's fascinating manipulation, uh,

0:37:44.160 --> 0:37:46.120
<v Speaker 2>of a of a use social environment.

0:37:46.560 --> 0:37:56.279
<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

0:37:56.840 --> 0:37:59.760
<v Speaker 2>Now, Walker strusted that there's much that's not known about

0:37:59.800 --> 0:38:05.600
<v Speaker 2>how all these bees function. They're they're pretty understudied. For instance,

0:38:05.640 --> 0:38:08.960
<v Speaker 2>it's assumed that workers continue to raise the alien larvae

0:38:09.440 --> 0:38:13.240
<v Speaker 2>because at this point their resistance to outsiders in general

0:38:13.280 --> 0:38:15.200
<v Speaker 2>has been lowered. But we just don't know for sure.

0:38:15.840 --> 0:38:18.839
<v Speaker 2>And I feel like we might have touched on this

0:38:18.920 --> 0:38:22.600
<v Speaker 2>before regarding parasites in general, but she points out that

0:38:22.600 --> 0:38:25.719
<v Speaker 2>one of the reasons that brood parasites parasite bees are

0:38:25.800 --> 0:38:29.319
<v Speaker 2>understudied in general is that we easily fall into making

0:38:29.360 --> 0:38:33.160
<v Speaker 2>a kind of moral judgment about parasites, and so you

0:38:33.440 --> 0:38:36.720
<v Speaker 2>often see people who study bees tending to gravitate towards

0:38:36.800 --> 0:38:40.440
<v Speaker 2>non parasitic species, even thinking of them as quote unquote

0:38:40.600 --> 0:38:44.719
<v Speaker 2>true bees, you know, sort of siding with the complex

0:38:45.239 --> 0:38:47.920
<v Speaker 2>sort of you know, use social civilization builders, and you

0:38:47.960 --> 0:38:51.440
<v Speaker 2>don't want to side with the invaders, the thieves and

0:38:51.480 --> 0:38:52.160
<v Speaker 2>the tyrants.

0:38:52.480 --> 0:38:54.960
<v Speaker 3>Uh huh, Yeah, I'd go out on a limb and say,

0:38:54.960 --> 0:38:56.280
<v Speaker 3>these bees don't know any better.

0:38:57.920 --> 0:39:00.440
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, there's I mean really even I mean that's the

0:39:00.440 --> 0:39:03.560
<v Speaker 2>thing about the about even a use social uh you

0:39:03.560 --> 0:39:08.040
<v Speaker 2>know bee hive situation. Uh, there's no good or evil there.

0:39:08.160 --> 0:39:12.040
<v Speaker 2>There is just there's just life. There is just the uh,

0:39:12.840 --> 0:39:16.560
<v Speaker 2>the will of the hive. But uh, anyway, getting back

0:39:16.560 --> 0:39:19.120
<v Speaker 2>to osiris bees, and again with a huge caveat that

0:39:19.200 --> 0:39:21.560
<v Speaker 2>there's a lot we don't know, and that in general,

0:39:22.000 --> 0:39:26.319
<v Speaker 2>parasitic bees are understudied and Osiris bees as well. So

0:39:26.440 --> 0:39:29.200
<v Speaker 2>Osirius bees are not bumblebees. So a lot of what

0:39:29.239 --> 0:39:32.719
<v Speaker 2>I just said is not going to actually apply to

0:39:32.760 --> 0:39:35.759
<v Speaker 2>what we're talking about here. Uh so these are these

0:39:35.760 --> 0:39:39.120
<v Speaker 2>bees are more wasp like in appearance. I included a

0:39:39.120 --> 0:39:41.560
<v Speaker 2>picture of one individual for you to look at below

0:39:41.600 --> 0:39:44.000
<v Speaker 2>here Joe, but anyone else out there, you can easily

0:39:44.040 --> 0:39:47.960
<v Speaker 2>do a Google image search, and there various entomology profile

0:39:48.040 --> 0:39:53.480
<v Speaker 2>pages with images. Uh they're they're they're generally pale, sometimes

0:39:53.600 --> 0:39:58.359
<v Speaker 2>almost yellow or green, And according to Sam Droge and

0:39:58.480 --> 0:40:01.719
<v Speaker 2>Lawrence Packer in the book An up Close Look at

0:40:01.719 --> 0:40:05.200
<v Speaker 2>Pollinators around the World, most of the time when an

0:40:05.320 --> 0:40:08.839
<v Speaker 2>entomologist names something after a god from any mythology, they're

0:40:08.880 --> 0:40:11.200
<v Speaker 2>basically just sort of showing off their knowledge of mythology,

0:40:11.600 --> 0:40:14.359
<v Speaker 2>you know, just saying like, you probably shouldn't read too

0:40:14.440 --> 0:40:19.040
<v Speaker 2>much into the invocation of any god, much less Osiris

0:40:19.080 --> 0:40:21.560
<v Speaker 2>in this case. But they do point out that the

0:40:21.560 --> 0:40:25.719
<v Speaker 2>invocation of Osiris is perhaps kind of on point here

0:40:26.200 --> 0:40:30.319
<v Speaker 2>given the colorization, because again, remember the green skin of Osiris,

0:40:30.719 --> 0:40:34.120
<v Speaker 2>and with Osiris bees, the skin is also reportedly often

0:40:34.400 --> 0:40:37.560
<v Speaker 2>kind of this pale green or pale yellowish green color.

0:40:38.080 --> 0:40:40.480
<v Speaker 2>I don't know that that's particularly present in the image

0:40:40.480 --> 0:40:44.400
<v Speaker 2>that I included here for you, Joe, but still I

0:40:44.440 --> 0:40:45.399
<v Speaker 2>will value.

0:40:45.040 --> 0:40:47.520
<v Speaker 3>The connection here fair enough. I don't think I've ever

0:40:47.520 --> 0:40:50.480
<v Speaker 3>seen a green looking bee. I'd like to see that now.

0:40:50.520 --> 0:40:54.399
<v Speaker 2>As we mentioned earlier, these Osiris bees also pack very

0:40:54.480 --> 0:40:58.000
<v Speaker 2>large stingers, so I think that the species number I've

0:40:58.040 --> 0:41:01.120
<v Speaker 2>seen for Osiris bees is something like thirty two, perhaps

0:41:01.160 --> 0:41:04.319
<v Speaker 2>more than that, but not by a tremendous amount, and

0:41:04.640 --> 0:41:07.480
<v Speaker 2>is mentioned already and is cited as well in Lawrence

0:41:07.480 --> 0:41:10.560
<v Speaker 2>Packer's Bees of the World. Yeah, they have these oversized stingers,

0:41:11.320 --> 0:41:14.719
<v Speaker 2>but they also don't have the extra armor associated with

0:41:14.880 --> 0:41:18.160
<v Speaker 2>various like cuckoo bumble bees, so they're actually rather slim

0:41:18.200 --> 0:41:23.080
<v Speaker 2>and smooth. So they're not just complete tanks. We might

0:41:23.120 --> 0:41:26.040
<v Speaker 2>think of them a little differently, almost more like a

0:41:26.280 --> 0:41:30.399
<v Speaker 2>sleek assassin with an oversized weapon. Okay, and indeed that's

0:41:30.520 --> 0:41:32.719
<v Speaker 2>that's how Packer kind of describes them. It's kind of

0:41:32.760 --> 0:41:39.200
<v Speaker 2>an egg assassin so or queen assassin. So they have

0:41:39.280 --> 0:41:43.120
<v Speaker 2>the greatly oversized stinger that's curved, and even the abdomen

0:41:43.200 --> 0:41:46.760
<v Speaker 2>harnessing the stinger is elongated, so it gives them extra reach.

0:41:47.280 --> 0:41:49.839
<v Speaker 2>So you can kind of think of like a swordsman

0:41:49.960 --> 0:41:52.000
<v Speaker 2>using a rape year, you know, how they're able to

0:41:52.120 --> 0:41:55.000
<v Speaker 2>lunge in and close the distance a lot more effectively.

0:41:56.160 --> 0:41:58.680
<v Speaker 2>And he says that that quote there is evidence that

0:41:58.719 --> 0:42:01.600
<v Speaker 2>the sting is used to kill the host egg, and

0:42:01.640 --> 0:42:05.200
<v Speaker 2>in the book by Packer and Droje, they also point

0:42:05.200 --> 0:42:08.200
<v Speaker 2>out that the adaptation could be primarily for dealing with

0:42:08.280 --> 0:42:12.200
<v Speaker 2>the main nest. Document they also stress, quote, almost nothing

0:42:12.280 --> 0:42:15.120
<v Speaker 2>is known about the makeup of these nests parasites. But

0:42:15.600 --> 0:42:18.520
<v Speaker 2>it's my understanding, based on the context of these descriptions

0:42:18.560 --> 0:42:22.720
<v Speaker 2>and some details about the bees that they seem to target,

0:42:23.160 --> 0:42:25.799
<v Speaker 2>that these are not large hives or nests that they're

0:42:25.840 --> 0:42:29.600
<v Speaker 2>going after, but rather they're going after solitary ground nesting

0:42:29.640 --> 0:42:33.560
<v Speaker 2>bees here, oh okay, and thus they don't apparently have

0:42:33.640 --> 0:42:36.640
<v Speaker 2>to protect themselves from a whole bunch of workers. It's

0:42:36.680 --> 0:42:41.279
<v Speaker 2>not this full blown battle tank invasion like we see

0:42:41.320 --> 0:42:44.719
<v Speaker 2>in some of these cuckoo bumblebees. Instead, it's like, get

0:42:44.719 --> 0:42:47.279
<v Speaker 2>in there, do what you got to do, Stab an

0:42:47.280 --> 0:42:51.200
<v Speaker 2>egg that's already there, kill the queen if she is

0:42:51.239 --> 0:42:54.600
<v Speaker 2>already there and she messes with you. But that's the

0:42:54.640 --> 0:42:55.160
<v Speaker 2>extent of it.

0:42:56.280 --> 0:42:57.640
<v Speaker 3>The infiltrator model.

0:42:58.400 --> 0:43:02.839
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, so again with this case, not a lot of

0:43:02.840 --> 0:43:07.279
<v Speaker 2>connective tissue between Osiris the god and the thing named

0:43:07.280 --> 0:43:09.640
<v Speaker 2>after Osiris. But you know, now that we've talked about

0:43:09.640 --> 0:43:14.480
<v Speaker 2>both Osiris Rex and Osiris bees, I do see like

0:43:14.560 --> 0:43:17.600
<v Speaker 2>some sort of loose similarities here. Like we talked about

0:43:17.640 --> 0:43:21.000
<v Speaker 2>how the god Osiris is the opener of the way,

0:43:21.120 --> 0:43:25.080
<v Speaker 2>you know, he's the he goes somewhere in a sense

0:43:25.120 --> 0:43:29.080
<v Speaker 2>that has never been visited before. He makes it possible

0:43:29.120 --> 0:43:32.560
<v Speaker 2>for others to go there as well, you know, brings

0:43:33.000 --> 0:43:37.399
<v Speaker 2>knowledge or you know, and is one that journeys. And

0:43:37.480 --> 0:43:40.840
<v Speaker 2>certainly with Osiris Rex, this lines up with some of this.

0:43:41.040 --> 0:43:43.239
<v Speaker 2>You know, goes to a place that we have not

0:43:43.360 --> 0:43:46.600
<v Speaker 2>explored before, makes certain things possible in the future that

0:43:46.680 --> 0:43:49.400
<v Speaker 2>are even protective in nature. And I don't know with

0:43:49.440 --> 0:43:52.640
<v Speaker 2>the Osiris bees, you know, it's a little more if

0:43:52.640 --> 0:43:57.319
<v Speaker 2>we're to again anthropomorphized recklessly, kind of sinister, but these

0:43:57.320 --> 0:44:01.680
<v Speaker 2>are bees that open away that venture somewhere else and

0:44:01.840 --> 0:44:05.480
<v Speaker 2>make life possible in a way that it wasn't possible

0:44:05.480 --> 0:44:08.640
<v Speaker 2>before there at least for this for their species.

0:44:09.000 --> 0:44:10.920
<v Speaker 3>I thought you were going to make the connection between

0:44:10.960 --> 0:44:14.680
<v Speaker 3>the Osiris bees and Osiris Rex because of the stinger

0:44:14.840 --> 0:44:15.879
<v Speaker 3>and the sampling arm.

0:44:16.080 --> 0:44:17.799
<v Speaker 2>There you go. I think there's a connection to be

0:44:17.840 --> 0:44:22.520
<v Speaker 2>made there, long stinger, long sampling arm, and we were

0:44:22.560 --> 0:44:25.279
<v Speaker 2>comparing mosquitos earlier. But you know, we get into some

0:44:25.280 --> 0:44:28.560
<v Speaker 2>of the particulars here, and we're often talking about repurposed

0:44:28.600 --> 0:44:33.520
<v Speaker 2>ovipositors and so forth. So yeah, I think that's valid

0:44:33.520 --> 0:44:36.239
<v Speaker 2>as well. All right, well, we're going to go ahead

0:44:36.280 --> 0:44:38.319
<v Speaker 2>and close the book here Again. There you'll find some

0:44:38.360 --> 0:44:42.879
<v Speaker 2>other things named after Osiris. There are some exoplanets, some asteroids,

0:44:42.920 --> 0:44:48.520
<v Speaker 2>some individual craters that are named after Osiris. But I

0:44:48.520 --> 0:44:52.319
<v Speaker 2>feel like these were the most compelling examples to draw

0:44:52.440 --> 0:44:54.600
<v Speaker 2>on for this episode. But if you disagree, if you

0:44:54.600 --> 0:44:58.680
<v Speaker 2>have a particular favorite Osiris, or if you in your

0:44:58.719 --> 0:45:01.279
<v Speaker 2>line of work or some line of work you're familiar with,

0:45:01.520 --> 0:45:06.480
<v Speaker 2>there is another acronym involving or invoking of Cyrus or

0:45:06.520 --> 0:45:10.600
<v Speaker 2>any other interesting Egyptian mythological figure, write in we would

0:45:10.640 --> 0:45:13.400
<v Speaker 2>love to hear about it. Just a reminder that stuff

0:45:13.400 --> 0:45:15.239
<v Speaker 2>to blow your mind. It is primarily a science and

0:45:15.239 --> 0:45:19.800
<v Speaker 2>culture podcast with core episodes on Tuesdays and Thursdays. On Mondays,

0:45:19.840 --> 0:45:21.719
<v Speaker 2>we do listener mail on Wednesdays we do a short

0:45:21.760 --> 0:45:24.320
<v Speaker 2>form episode, and on Fridays we set aside most serious

0:45:24.320 --> 0:45:26.600
<v Speaker 2>concerns to just talk about a weird film on Weird

0:45:26.719 --> 0:45:27.839
<v Speaker 2>House Cinema.

0:45:28.040 --> 0:45:31.880
<v Speaker 3>Huge thanks as always to our excellent audio producer JJ Posway.

0:45:32.280 --> 0:45:33.960
<v Speaker 3>If you would like to get in touch with us

0:45:33.960 --> 0:45:36.480
<v Speaker 3>with feedback on this episode or any other, to suggest

0:45:36.520 --> 0:45:38.520
<v Speaker 3>a topic for the future, or just to say hello,

0:45:38.719 --> 0:45:41.520
<v Speaker 3>you can email us at contact Stuff to Blow your

0:45:41.560 --> 0:45:50.000
<v Speaker 3>Mind dot com.

0:45:50.120 --> 0:45:53.040
<v Speaker 1>Stuff to Blow Your Mind is production of iHeartRadio. For

0:45:53.120 --> 0:45:55.919
<v Speaker 1>more podcasts from my heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app,

0:45:56.080 --> 0:46:13.080
<v Speaker 1>Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.