1 00:00:03,040 --> 00:00:06,840 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind, a production of iHeartRadio. 2 00:00:12,760 --> 00:00:14,400 Speaker 2: Hey you welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind. 3 00:00:14,440 --> 00:00:17,160 Speaker 3: My name is Robert Lamb and I'm Joe McCormick. 4 00:00:17,720 --> 00:00:19,680 Speaker 2: Last week on the show, we did a two parter 5 00:00:19,880 --> 00:00:25,040 Speaker 2: about the ancient Egyptian underworld fertility god Osiris, and today's 6 00:00:25,079 --> 00:00:28,120 Speaker 2: episode is kind of a spin off of that. Well, 7 00:00:28,160 --> 00:00:30,520 Speaker 2: I think you're going to have more fun if you 8 00:00:30,600 --> 00:00:34,680 Speaker 2: go into this episode with some familiarity regarding the mythology 9 00:00:34,680 --> 00:00:38,760 Speaker 2: in question. So I would say, if you have a 10 00:00:39,000 --> 00:00:40,960 Speaker 2: choice in the matter, yeah, go back and listen to 11 00:00:41,040 --> 00:00:46,200 Speaker 2: the two previous episodes about Osiris the god and surrounding mythology. 12 00:00:46,920 --> 00:00:48,680 Speaker 2: Go ahead and listen to those. But it's also not 13 00:00:48,880 --> 00:00:53,199 Speaker 2: completely necessary. The basic gist here is, okay, Osiris is 14 00:00:53,200 --> 00:00:56,640 Speaker 2: a mythological figure who continues to resonate with people around 15 00:00:56,640 --> 00:00:59,320 Speaker 2: the world, and even his name has this kind of 16 00:00:59,400 --> 00:01:02,120 Speaker 2: regal myss to many ob us. Just to say the 17 00:01:02,200 --> 00:01:05,480 Speaker 2: name allowed Osiris, you know, it kind of summons a 18 00:01:05,480 --> 00:01:10,200 Speaker 2: certain amount of mystery and I don't know, strangeness and 19 00:01:10,319 --> 00:01:13,319 Speaker 2: power into the room with you. And scientists are far 20 00:01:13,360 --> 00:01:16,400 Speaker 2: from immune to such charms. So we have various things 21 00:01:16,400 --> 00:01:19,440 Speaker 2: in the scientific and technological world that are named after him. 22 00:01:20,319 --> 00:01:24,120 Speaker 2: In some cases we're talking about highly tortured acronyms. Other 23 00:01:24,200 --> 00:01:27,240 Speaker 2: times there seems to be, you know, even less connection. 24 00:01:27,880 --> 00:01:30,039 Speaker 2: So we're not going to touch on everything in the 25 00:01:30,080 --> 00:01:33,160 Speaker 2: scientific and technological world that is named after Osiris. There 26 00:01:33,160 --> 00:01:35,080 Speaker 2: are some things we're not going to get into, like 27 00:01:35,120 --> 00:01:39,160 Speaker 2: there is an exoplanet that is nicknamed Osirius, not officially 28 00:01:39,240 --> 00:01:42,119 Speaker 2: named Osiris. But we are going to talk about two 29 00:01:42,160 --> 00:01:44,959 Speaker 2: things in particular. You know, it's an opportunity to chat 30 00:01:44,959 --> 00:01:48,400 Speaker 2: about some very deserving science in the name of Osiris, 31 00:01:48,840 --> 00:01:51,520 Speaker 2: as you know, as well as some scientific tidbits that 32 00:01:51,520 --> 00:01:53,440 Speaker 2: we might not otherwise have discussed. 33 00:01:53,800 --> 00:01:56,840 Speaker 3: Right, So first up, I wanted to talk about a 34 00:01:56,880 --> 00:02:02,080 Speaker 3: couple of aspects of Osiris Rex, which was the name 35 00:02:02,440 --> 00:02:07,160 Speaker 3: of an asteroid sample return mission operated by NASA, as 36 00:02:07,200 --> 00:02:11,280 Speaker 3: well as the original name of its associated spacecraft, but 37 00:02:11,440 --> 00:02:14,520 Speaker 3: it has since been resurrected with a new identity. It 38 00:02:14,560 --> 00:02:18,760 Speaker 3: has now been reborn as Osiris APEX. I'll explain that 39 00:02:18,840 --> 00:02:19,520 Speaker 3: in a minute. 40 00:02:19,639 --> 00:02:22,040 Speaker 2: Well that sounds really cool too, and I mean, if 41 00:02:22,080 --> 00:02:25,240 Speaker 2: nothing else, this is just an awesome name for a 42 00:02:25,280 --> 00:02:25,959 Speaker 2: space mission. 43 00:02:26,320 --> 00:02:29,760 Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm trying to discern the mythological significance of going 44 00:02:29,760 --> 00:02:32,200 Speaker 3: from Rex to Apex. I guess that would be like 45 00:02:32,480 --> 00:02:36,560 Speaker 3: going from Osiris the King to Osiris the Peak. That's 46 00:02:36,600 --> 00:02:37,480 Speaker 3: what Apex means. 47 00:02:37,480 --> 00:02:39,520 Speaker 2: I think in either a case, I mean it is 48 00:02:39,520 --> 00:02:43,680 Speaker 2: fitting to name things in space or sent into space 49 00:02:43,720 --> 00:02:48,520 Speaker 2: after Osiris, given the ancient Egyptians fascination with the stars. 50 00:02:49,120 --> 00:02:51,840 Speaker 3: Fair enough, so I'll start with just a very short 51 00:02:51,919 --> 00:02:55,240 Speaker 3: rough sketch of the mission history and then come back 52 00:02:55,280 --> 00:02:58,000 Speaker 3: and talk about a couple of aspects of it. So 53 00:02:58,120 --> 00:03:03,080 Speaker 3: Osiris REX launched in September twenty sixteen, and in twenty 54 00:03:03,200 --> 00:03:07,880 Speaker 3: eighteen successfully achieved a deep space rendezvous with its target, 55 00:03:08,280 --> 00:03:12,400 Speaker 3: an asteroid called one oh one nine five five Binu 56 00:03:12,600 --> 00:03:18,160 Speaker 3: b NNU. The spacecraft spent roughly two years after that 57 00:03:18,480 --> 00:03:22,960 Speaker 3: orbiting Binu, mapping its surface, doing analysis of the asteroid 58 00:03:22,960 --> 00:03:27,040 Speaker 3: from orbit, and trying to select an ideal landing zone, 59 00:03:27,280 --> 00:03:31,640 Speaker 3: which proved a bit more difficult than had originally been anticipated. 60 00:03:32,280 --> 00:03:36,360 Speaker 3: In October of twenty twenty, o Cyrus REX managed to 61 00:03:36,360 --> 00:03:39,960 Speaker 3: touch down on the surface of Binu and collect a 62 00:03:40,040 --> 00:03:43,840 Speaker 3: sample of its regolith. The regolith is the rocky outer 63 00:03:44,000 --> 00:03:46,960 Speaker 3: soil covering the object. But it was not like a 64 00:03:47,000 --> 00:03:49,840 Speaker 3: full landing where it sat down and chilled for a while. 65 00:03:50,200 --> 00:03:53,960 Speaker 3: It was a touch and go sampling operation, so it 66 00:03:54,120 --> 00:03:57,800 Speaker 3: touched down, it sort of poked the asteroid with a 67 00:03:57,840 --> 00:04:01,000 Speaker 3: mechanism called its sampling arms, had kind of a leg 68 00:04:01,160 --> 00:04:04,240 Speaker 3: or a limb that came out below it that poked 69 00:04:04,280 --> 00:04:07,800 Speaker 3: down into the asteroids regolith, did a blast of nitrogen 70 00:04:07,880 --> 00:04:10,760 Speaker 3: gas to try to stir up some of this. The 71 00:04:10,800 --> 00:04:14,440 Speaker 3: soil captured a bunch of it and then blasted right 72 00:04:14,520 --> 00:04:19,120 Speaker 3: back off it kind of like a mosquito. Didn't land 73 00:04:19,160 --> 00:04:20,880 Speaker 3: for as long as a mosquito, though, it was more 74 00:04:20,960 --> 00:04:23,400 Speaker 3: like if a mosquito just had to kind of like 75 00:04:23,560 --> 00:04:27,000 Speaker 3: jab you and then retreat. Gotcha, like if a mosquito 76 00:04:27,040 --> 00:04:31,200 Speaker 3: would fly down poke you, hit your blood vessels under 77 00:04:31,200 --> 00:04:34,080 Speaker 3: the skin with a blast of nitrogen gas, cause a 78 00:04:34,120 --> 00:04:37,760 Speaker 3: little sort of explosion of blood, and then just suck 79 00:04:37,839 --> 00:04:40,240 Speaker 3: up a bunch of that as it is bouncing back 80 00:04:40,279 --> 00:04:43,520 Speaker 3: off of your skin. But anyway, the sampling was successful. 81 00:04:43,520 --> 00:04:47,520 Speaker 3: It got a significant amount of the material from Binu, 82 00:04:47,920 --> 00:04:52,359 Speaker 3: and then it lifted off and returned to Earth, which 83 00:04:52,720 --> 00:04:56,400 Speaker 3: and so the spacecraft didn't fully return to Earth, but 84 00:04:56,520 --> 00:04:59,600 Speaker 3: it had a capsule that was for the sample return 85 00:05:00,080 --> 00:05:03,800 Speaker 3: which touchdown on Earth. I think it landed in Utah 86 00:05:04,240 --> 00:05:09,159 Speaker 3: in September twenty twenty three, and the asteroid soil sample 87 00:05:09,360 --> 00:05:12,360 Speaker 3: was intact and it was ready to be studied. So 88 00:05:12,400 --> 00:05:15,000 Speaker 3: that is something we now have in the possession of 89 00:05:15,040 --> 00:05:18,919 Speaker 3: Earth scientists who have already gotten to work analyzing it 90 00:05:19,000 --> 00:05:20,760 Speaker 3: and doing science on the basis of it. 91 00:05:20,960 --> 00:05:25,719 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a pretty impressive technological achievement, you know, not 92 00:05:25,760 --> 00:05:28,279 Speaker 2: even getting in to just all the details of just 93 00:05:28,360 --> 00:05:30,640 Speaker 2: making sure everything lines up just right. 94 00:05:30,560 --> 00:05:32,800 Speaker 3: Here in many ways. I mean, there are a lot 95 00:05:32,839 --> 00:05:35,400 Speaker 3: of things that are hard about doing a mission like this. 96 00:05:35,839 --> 00:05:39,000 Speaker 3: So of course there's just there are the navigational challenges 97 00:05:39,000 --> 00:05:42,560 Speaker 3: of trying to intersect with a small, fast moving object 98 00:05:42,600 --> 00:05:46,200 Speaker 3: in space like an asteroid. There is once you get there, 99 00:05:46,360 --> 00:05:49,120 Speaker 3: the selection of the landing zone, this difficult touch and 100 00:05:49,160 --> 00:05:52,839 Speaker 3: go maneuver to try to capture a piece of the 101 00:05:52,880 --> 00:05:56,960 Speaker 3: asteroid some soil from it without contaminating it, to get 102 00:05:57,000 --> 00:06:02,039 Speaker 3: that safely back to Earth on intact and uncontaminated. And 103 00:06:02,080 --> 00:06:05,279 Speaker 3: then also things people might not even think of. For example, 104 00:06:06,040 --> 00:06:10,520 Speaker 3: when the spacecraft and the probe were conducting their operations 105 00:06:10,520 --> 00:06:13,080 Speaker 3: on the asteroid surface. That's not something that like a 106 00:06:13,200 --> 00:06:16,599 Speaker 3: human pilot can operate in real time with a joystick. 107 00:06:17,080 --> 00:06:21,240 Speaker 3: Because it's so far away, there's a significant travel time 108 00:06:21,360 --> 00:06:25,320 Speaker 3: for information back and forth between mission control here on 109 00:06:25,320 --> 00:06:30,359 Speaker 3: Earth and the probe. So essentially, these maneuvers had to 110 00:06:30,360 --> 00:06:33,360 Speaker 3: be pre programmed so that the probe could carry them 111 00:06:33,360 --> 00:06:36,240 Speaker 3: out on its own, because there wouldn't be enough real 112 00:06:36,279 --> 00:06:40,200 Speaker 3: time exchange of information for like a human pilot to 113 00:06:40,240 --> 00:06:43,000 Speaker 3: see what's happening in the moment and adjust. You have 114 00:06:43,080 --> 00:06:46,080 Speaker 3: to like make sure you've programmed it correctly in advance 115 00:06:46,440 --> 00:06:48,360 Speaker 3: and it can do what it needs to do without 116 00:06:48,400 --> 00:06:52,840 Speaker 3: you being able to intervene. But anyway, after the successful 117 00:06:52,920 --> 00:06:56,480 Speaker 3: conclusion of the Osiris Rex mission, the spacecraft was given 118 00:06:56,480 --> 00:06:59,720 Speaker 3: a new mission and a new name to rendezvous with 119 00:07:00,040 --> 00:07:04,279 Speaker 3: and study the asteroid nine nine nine four two Apophice, and, 120 00:07:04,440 --> 00:07:09,320 Speaker 3: in keeping with its new role, the new name Osiris APEX. So, 121 00:07:09,440 --> 00:07:12,440 Speaker 3: as you previewed a minute ago, rob O Cyrus Rex 122 00:07:12,560 --> 00:07:16,600 Speaker 3: is an acronym. It's one of these kind of I 123 00:07:16,600 --> 00:07:19,680 Speaker 3: always wonder how these things exactly come together when, like 124 00:07:19,920 --> 00:07:22,040 Speaker 3: you know, you select all the things and they're supposed 125 00:07:22,080 --> 00:07:25,360 Speaker 3: to stand for what it actually does, but then it 126 00:07:25,400 --> 00:07:28,120 Speaker 3: makes a word that already exists, and you're like, that 127 00:07:28,160 --> 00:07:33,720 Speaker 3: didn't happen by accident. Who organizes the acronym for formation process? 128 00:07:33,760 --> 00:07:34,200 Speaker 3: I don't know. 129 00:07:34,600 --> 00:07:36,760 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like it's one of these situations where you 130 00:07:36,800 --> 00:07:39,440 Speaker 2: sort of you get in within spitting distance of a 131 00:07:39,440 --> 00:07:42,960 Speaker 2: really cool word and then you start turning the screws 132 00:07:43,280 --> 00:07:46,520 Speaker 2: to get it a little closer, you know, because you're 133 00:07:46,560 --> 00:07:50,640 Speaker 2: not hitting Osiris REX. You know, first try with no manipulation. 134 00:07:51,280 --> 00:07:55,400 Speaker 3: Certainly not so it's not without it being an Osiris miracle, 135 00:07:56,440 --> 00:08:01,840 Speaker 3: but okay. So it stands for origins, Spectral Interpretation, Resource 136 00:08:01,880 --> 00:08:07,720 Speaker 3: Identification and Security regalith Explorer, So those parts of the 137 00:08:07,800 --> 00:08:12,080 Speaker 3: name are basically a summary of what Osiris REX was 138 00:08:12,280 --> 00:08:15,320 Speaker 3: meant to study or what types of questions it was 139 00:08:15,360 --> 00:08:19,680 Speaker 3: meant to help illuminate. So, for example, origins refers to 140 00:08:19,800 --> 00:08:23,000 Speaker 3: the fact that the target of the mission is what 141 00:08:23,200 --> 00:08:27,600 Speaker 3: has sometimes been called a time capsule. Asteroid Binu was 142 00:08:27,640 --> 00:08:33,600 Speaker 3: selected because it is thought to be a pristine four 143 00:08:33,600 --> 00:08:37,600 Speaker 3: point five million year old, carbon rich asteroid that has 144 00:08:37,640 --> 00:08:41,920 Speaker 3: been preserved in essentially the same condition since the Solar 145 00:08:41,960 --> 00:08:45,400 Speaker 3: System was formed. So by looking at what it's made 146 00:08:45,440 --> 00:08:47,600 Speaker 3: of we can learn more about the early days of 147 00:08:47,640 --> 00:08:51,440 Speaker 3: the Solar system and learn about the initial distribution of 148 00:08:51,640 --> 00:08:56,160 Speaker 3: things of various minerals and organic compounds and things like that. 149 00:08:56,280 --> 00:08:59,280 Speaker 3: It'll help teach us more about how the Solar system 150 00:08:59,360 --> 00:09:03,319 Speaker 3: was formed and give us points of comparison between it 151 00:09:03,400 --> 00:09:05,560 Speaker 3: and other objects in the Solar System that have been 152 00:09:05,679 --> 00:09:10,280 Speaker 3: changed more over time. And so the spectral interpretation part 153 00:09:10,520 --> 00:09:13,360 Speaker 3: this refers to the use of spectral analysis and astronomy 154 00:09:13,400 --> 00:09:16,040 Speaker 3: looking at patterns of light colors reflected off of an 155 00:09:16,080 --> 00:09:20,520 Speaker 3: object to determine its composition. The respectral analysis of Binu, 156 00:09:20,640 --> 00:09:24,120 Speaker 3: of course, and there is spectral analysis of asteroids even 157 00:09:24,280 --> 00:09:29,360 Speaker 3: from just from telescopic observatories to try to determine their composition, 158 00:09:29,480 --> 00:09:33,200 Speaker 3: So it would help illuminate those questions as well. There 159 00:09:33,320 --> 00:09:36,920 Speaker 3: is a resource identification in the name that's understanding the 160 00:09:37,040 --> 00:09:40,920 Speaker 3: chemical and geological makeup of a carbon rich asteroid. The 161 00:09:40,960 --> 00:09:44,000 Speaker 3: security in the name is an interesting thing. Might think, wait, 162 00:09:44,280 --> 00:09:48,040 Speaker 3: what is this referra to security? Well, that refers to 163 00:09:48,320 --> 00:09:51,800 Speaker 3: security for the whole of Earth, because it turns out, 164 00:09:51,840 --> 00:09:55,480 Speaker 3: of all the asteroids we know about today, Binu is 165 00:09:55,559 --> 00:09:59,160 Speaker 3: one of the most potentially dangerous to our planet Binu 166 00:09:59,320 --> 00:10:03,360 Speaker 3: passes near to Earth about once every six years, and 167 00:10:03,640 --> 00:10:07,600 Speaker 3: scientists have calculated that in the year twenty one eighty two, 168 00:10:08,280 --> 00:10:10,960 Speaker 3: its path will bring it close enough that there is 169 00:10:11,040 --> 00:10:14,080 Speaker 3: about a one in twenty seven hundred chance of a 170 00:10:14,200 --> 00:10:17,600 Speaker 3: collision on that pass. So you can get some relief 171 00:10:17,640 --> 00:10:21,440 Speaker 3: from the relentless like asteroid bound for Earth headlines in 172 00:10:21,440 --> 00:10:25,319 Speaker 3: that when it comes to the larger known space objects, 173 00:10:25,880 --> 00:10:28,280 Speaker 3: even the most troubling ones won't get close to us 174 00:10:28,280 --> 00:10:30,440 Speaker 3: for a long time, and even when they do, based 175 00:10:30,480 --> 00:10:32,920 Speaker 3: on what we know today, the chances of a direct 176 00:10:33,000 --> 00:10:36,840 Speaker 3: hit are like one in several thousand at worst. Now, 177 00:10:36,920 --> 00:10:39,959 Speaker 3: how bad would it be if Binu did hit Earth. 178 00:10:40,080 --> 00:10:43,520 Speaker 3: It would be not as bad as some impacts in 179 00:10:43,600 --> 00:10:47,400 Speaker 3: Earth's history, but it would be quite bad. Benu is 180 00:10:47,400 --> 00:10:51,160 Speaker 3: about half a kilometer wide with a mass of about 181 00:10:51,200 --> 00:10:54,600 Speaker 3: sixty seven million metric tons, so it would probably not 182 00:10:54,800 --> 00:10:58,160 Speaker 3: be large enough to cause worldwide calamity. It wouldn't be 183 00:10:58,240 --> 00:11:01,160 Speaker 3: like the you know, the object to sonociated with the 184 00:11:01,200 --> 00:11:03,400 Speaker 3: death of the non avian dinosaurs. It would not be 185 00:11:03,440 --> 00:11:07,120 Speaker 3: like the KPg extinction object, but it would It would 186 00:11:07,160 --> 00:11:10,880 Speaker 3: be bad. It would be extremely locally destructive, depending on 187 00:11:11,000 --> 00:11:14,680 Speaker 3: where and how it hit. So part of the mission 188 00:11:14,920 --> 00:11:18,600 Speaker 3: was also focused on studying the forces acting on the 189 00:11:18,679 --> 00:11:22,840 Speaker 3: trajectory of asteroids so we can better predict their course 190 00:11:23,040 --> 00:11:27,280 Speaker 3: over time, because probably the single thing we need to 191 00:11:27,559 --> 00:11:33,079 Speaker 3: best understand in order to defend Earth from dangerous near 192 00:11:33,120 --> 00:11:38,040 Speaker 3: Earth objects is a very accurate prediction system for the 193 00:11:38,080 --> 00:11:42,760 Speaker 3: future movements of space objects. Right now, we can predict 194 00:11:42,800 --> 00:11:47,199 Speaker 3: with pretty good accuracy, but over time that accuracy degrades 195 00:11:47,280 --> 00:11:49,920 Speaker 3: right so the farther out into the future you're looking, 196 00:11:50,360 --> 00:11:54,280 Speaker 3: the harder it is to predict how close something is 197 00:11:54,320 --> 00:11:58,480 Speaker 3: going to be. And specifically, the Osiris REX mission was 198 00:11:58,520 --> 00:12:02,160 Speaker 3: looking at the influence of something the Yarkovsky effect, and 199 00:12:02,559 --> 00:12:05,199 Speaker 3: to do a short summary of that. When an asteroid 200 00:12:05,360 --> 00:12:08,800 Speaker 3: is flying through space and rotating, this is specifically for 201 00:12:08,880 --> 00:12:14,480 Speaker 3: a rotating object, its surface goes through patterns of heating 202 00:12:14,600 --> 00:12:18,160 Speaker 3: and cooling depending on which side is facing the sun. 203 00:12:18,600 --> 00:12:20,880 Speaker 3: So as one side of the asteroid faces the sun, 204 00:12:20,960 --> 00:12:24,040 Speaker 3: it gets star baked and it heats up, and then 205 00:12:24,080 --> 00:12:27,719 Speaker 3: as the asteroid rotates, the hot side turns away from 206 00:12:27,760 --> 00:12:31,520 Speaker 3: the Sun and cools, and that cooling means the asteroid 207 00:12:31,600 --> 00:12:37,840 Speaker 3: is radiating infrared photons into space. This radiation actually provides 208 00:12:38,040 --> 00:12:42,800 Speaker 3: its own small amount of thrust, so as it's radiating 209 00:12:42,840 --> 00:12:45,640 Speaker 3: that heat off into space, there's a bit of a 210 00:12:45,679 --> 00:12:50,520 Speaker 3: push created there, and the effect is fairly small, but 211 00:12:50,800 --> 00:12:55,120 Speaker 3: for relatively small objects and affecting the path over large 212 00:12:55,160 --> 00:12:57,880 Speaker 3: periods of time, it can make a big difference. This 213 00:12:58,040 --> 00:13:01,680 Speaker 3: does affect the asteroid's path through space, which makes it 214 00:13:01,720 --> 00:13:05,120 Speaker 3: harder to predict the orbit of a rotating asteroid farther 215 00:13:05,200 --> 00:13:07,520 Speaker 3: into the future. And that's something that we need to 216 00:13:07,520 --> 00:13:10,199 Speaker 3: be able to do if we want to identify threatening 217 00:13:10,200 --> 00:13:13,480 Speaker 3: near Earth objects and protect Earth by potentially pushing them 218 00:13:13,520 --> 00:13:14,480 Speaker 3: off course. 219 00:13:14,960 --> 00:13:17,760 Speaker 2: Right right, which to your point is is essential with 220 00:13:17,840 --> 00:13:21,160 Speaker 2: objects that we already know are going to get maybe 221 00:13:21,160 --> 00:13:23,680 Speaker 2: a little too close for comfort. Anyway, we need a 222 00:13:23,720 --> 00:13:27,720 Speaker 2: note like to what degree these estimates can be off, 223 00:13:27,760 --> 00:13:31,600 Speaker 2: you know, exactly how much sway there is in the 224 00:13:31,600 --> 00:13:34,439 Speaker 2: movement of one of these asteroids in our predictions exactly. 225 00:13:34,559 --> 00:13:37,000 Speaker 3: And then finally, so that's the OSIRIS part of the name. 226 00:13:37,040 --> 00:13:40,280 Speaker 3: That finally there's the REX part that stands for Regolith Explorer, 227 00:13:40,760 --> 00:13:43,880 Speaker 3: and this is the sample return aspect of the mission. 228 00:13:44,559 --> 00:13:49,000 Speaker 3: So OSIRIS REX was the first successful US mission to 229 00:13:49,240 --> 00:13:51,320 Speaker 3: return a sample from an asteroid that it was not 230 00:13:51,640 --> 00:13:56,479 Speaker 3: the first such mission worldwide. Actually, the first successful asteroid 231 00:13:56,520 --> 00:13:59,959 Speaker 3: sample return was carried out by the Japanese space Agent 232 00:14:00,120 --> 00:14:03,640 Speaker 3: See That was the Hyabusa probe, which got a sample 233 00:14:03,720 --> 00:14:07,559 Speaker 3: of small dust grains from an asteroid called twenty five 234 00:14:07,640 --> 00:14:11,080 Speaker 3: one forty three Itokawa and returned to the material to 235 00:14:11,160 --> 00:14:14,680 Speaker 3: Earth in twenty ten. Though Osiris Rex is not just 236 00:14:14,720 --> 00:14:17,680 Speaker 3: a duplicate of that mission because it targeted a different 237 00:14:17,840 --> 00:14:21,160 Speaker 3: type of asteroid, and also Binu was able to get 238 00:14:21,520 --> 00:14:25,040 Speaker 3: a lot more just mass of material returned to Earth 239 00:14:25,080 --> 00:14:27,880 Speaker 3: for us to work on. Now here's something about the 240 00:14:28,000 --> 00:14:31,440 Speaker 3: naming of this asteroid that is kind of backwards of 241 00:14:31,480 --> 00:14:33,680 Speaker 3: which is kind of the opposite of what you might expect. 242 00:14:34,080 --> 00:14:38,880 Speaker 3: The asteroid Binu got its name by association with the 243 00:14:38,920 --> 00:14:42,760 Speaker 3: Osiris REX mission, so it was originally called nineteen ninety 244 00:14:42,840 --> 00:14:46,480 Speaker 3: nine RQ thirty six, but in advance of the mission 245 00:14:46,600 --> 00:14:51,160 Speaker 3: in twenty thirteen, the Planetary Society held a competition to 246 00:14:51,320 --> 00:14:55,240 Speaker 3: name the asteroid, and a kid from North Carolina who 247 00:14:55,280 --> 00:14:58,560 Speaker 3: is nine years old at the time named Mike Pusio 248 00:14:59,680 --> 00:15:02,640 Speaker 3: came up with the idea of naming it Binu, which 249 00:15:02,760 --> 00:15:06,840 Speaker 3: was the name of a pre existing deity from Egyptian mythology, 250 00:15:07,320 --> 00:15:11,080 Speaker 3: an animal formed god, often depicted as a long legged bird, 251 00:15:11,280 --> 00:15:14,480 Speaker 3: though there's some dispute over which natural bird, if any, 252 00:15:14,520 --> 00:15:17,400 Speaker 3: it's supposed to correspond to. I'll talk about that a 253 00:15:17,400 --> 00:15:21,000 Speaker 3: bit more in a minute, but Puzio apparently picked the 254 00:15:21,080 --> 00:15:26,640 Speaker 3: name for the asteroid because of the Osiris rex probes 255 00:15:26,800 --> 00:15:30,080 Speaker 3: resemblance to a long legged bird and rob if you look, 256 00:15:30,240 --> 00:15:33,720 Speaker 3: I attached an image of the spacecraft here for you 257 00:15:33,760 --> 00:15:36,520 Speaker 3: to have a gander at. I can see this here, 258 00:15:36,560 --> 00:15:40,360 Speaker 3: So the solar panel flaps are very much like wings. 259 00:15:40,760 --> 00:15:43,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, excellent. I got to hand it to this 260 00:15:43,960 --> 00:15:47,280 Speaker 2: nine year old. This is a great space nerd and 261 00:15:47,320 --> 00:15:53,360 Speaker 2: a great mythology nerd. Two great nerdoms for anyone, especially 262 00:15:53,640 --> 00:15:54,640 Speaker 2: this at this age. 263 00:15:54,840 --> 00:15:57,080 Speaker 3: Now we're getting a little off track of the mission here, 264 00:15:57,120 --> 00:16:01,920 Speaker 3: but I actually got interested in the concept of Binu itself, 265 00:16:02,560 --> 00:16:05,160 Speaker 3: and the context of this episode is the Egyptian mythology, 266 00:16:05,200 --> 00:16:07,720 Speaker 3: So I wanted to follow this tunnel under the pyramids 267 00:16:07,720 --> 00:16:11,520 Speaker 3: for a moment. So Binu, you can if you're looking 268 00:16:11,520 --> 00:16:14,440 Speaker 3: this up. It's sometimes as the god's name is spelled 269 00:16:14,480 --> 00:16:16,880 Speaker 3: Binu with two ends or Binu with one n so 270 00:16:17,040 --> 00:16:20,440 Speaker 3: b e n u. Sometimes the asteroid is with two ends. 271 00:16:21,800 --> 00:16:26,000 Speaker 3: It is a figure associated with the creation of the 272 00:16:26,040 --> 00:16:29,360 Speaker 3: world and with the creator Sun God. And for what 273 00:16:29,440 --> 00:16:33,320 Speaker 3: I'm about to discuss my main sources Geraldine Pinch's Handbook 274 00:16:33,400 --> 00:16:38,400 Speaker 3: of Egyptian Mythology. So, according to Pinch, in some Egyptian myths, 275 00:16:38,520 --> 00:16:43,240 Speaker 3: Binu is said to be the oldest creature living. During 276 00:16:43,280 --> 00:16:46,360 Speaker 3: the creation of the world, when a hill of dry 277 00:16:46,520 --> 00:16:49,200 Speaker 3: land was first raised out of the darkness, out of 278 00:16:49,200 --> 00:16:53,360 Speaker 3: the waters of chaos, the Binu bird landed on this earth, 279 00:16:53,520 --> 00:16:56,880 Speaker 3: so it was the first living animal, and its cry 280 00:16:57,280 --> 00:17:01,400 Speaker 3: was the first sound. The moment of its marked the 281 00:17:01,440 --> 00:17:04,679 Speaker 3: first moment of time, and the cry of the Binu 282 00:17:04,720 --> 00:17:07,679 Speaker 3: bird will also sound again at the end of the 283 00:17:07,680 --> 00:17:10,399 Speaker 3: world to mark the time when all order will again 284 00:17:10,440 --> 00:17:14,840 Speaker 3: descend into chaos. The Binu bird seems to have been 285 00:17:14,880 --> 00:17:18,480 Speaker 3: related to, or possibly the inspiration for, the Greek myth 286 00:17:18,600 --> 00:17:22,399 Speaker 3: of the phoenix. In the Egyptian context, there was a 287 00:17:22,440 --> 00:17:26,560 Speaker 3: Binu bird that was believed to dwell in Heliopolis, and 288 00:17:27,000 --> 00:17:29,639 Speaker 3: kings would pray to the bird for the renewal of 289 00:17:29,760 --> 00:17:33,040 Speaker 3: strength after they had been in power for thirty years 290 00:17:33,400 --> 00:17:35,560 Speaker 3: and here, I just want to read a section from 291 00:17:35,600 --> 00:17:39,000 Speaker 3: Pinch on the connection between the Binu bird and Osiris 292 00:17:39,000 --> 00:17:42,760 Speaker 3: as well as another major god from the pantheon. Quote, 293 00:17:43,240 --> 00:17:46,879 Speaker 3: both Ray and Osiris could be identified with the Binu bird, 294 00:17:47,000 --> 00:17:51,080 Speaker 3: an expression of the secret knowledge that these two gods 295 00:17:51,200 --> 00:17:55,680 Speaker 3: were one. As a manifestation of Osiris, the Binu bird 296 00:17:55,840 --> 00:17:58,600 Speaker 3: led the spirits of the dead through the dangers of 297 00:17:58,640 --> 00:18:02,040 Speaker 3: the underworld. Some spells in the Book of the Dead 298 00:18:02,480 --> 00:18:06,800 Speaker 3: aim to assist the dead to transform themselves into Binu 299 00:18:06,880 --> 00:18:10,720 Speaker 3: birds so that they can travel freely between worlds. 300 00:18:12,200 --> 00:18:14,119 Speaker 2: All right, So a kind of psycho bomb here. 301 00:18:14,560 --> 00:18:16,800 Speaker 3: Yeah, I think it's interesting that you would you would 302 00:18:16,840 --> 00:18:20,240 Speaker 3: get both that. So the binu could be a creature 303 00:18:20,320 --> 00:18:23,520 Speaker 3: that's sort of a guide because remember in you know, 304 00:18:23,560 --> 00:18:27,560 Speaker 3: there are different visions of the Egyptian afterlife. But in 305 00:18:27,920 --> 00:18:30,520 Speaker 3: some views of this, you know, it's a it's an adventure. 306 00:18:30,680 --> 00:18:32,640 Speaker 3: It's like a journey that you have to go through 307 00:18:32,680 --> 00:18:35,440 Speaker 3: and face obstacles along the way. And there is also 308 00:18:35,920 --> 00:18:38,800 Speaker 3: there's the famous judgment, the weighing of the heart against 309 00:18:38,840 --> 00:18:41,639 Speaker 3: the feather of Mott. But there there are also you know, 310 00:18:41,680 --> 00:18:44,800 Speaker 3: these these trials you must go through, like facing facing, 311 00:18:44,920 --> 00:18:48,159 Speaker 3: dangers throughout the landscape of the dead, and the Binu 312 00:18:48,200 --> 00:18:52,720 Speaker 3: bird here apparently apparently could be a guide in that process. 313 00:18:53,040 --> 00:18:55,240 Speaker 3: But you could also, if you knew the right spells, 314 00:18:55,359 --> 00:18:58,200 Speaker 3: just turn into a Binu bird, which seems even better. 315 00:18:59,359 --> 00:19:01,639 Speaker 3: Now coming back to whether this bird has a counterpart 316 00:19:01,680 --> 00:19:06,159 Speaker 3: in nature, early texts describing the Binu bird seem to 317 00:19:06,200 --> 00:19:09,600 Speaker 3: be talking about a yellow wagtail, which is a small 318 00:19:09,640 --> 00:19:13,240 Speaker 3: bird that eats insects and tends to seek out wet, 319 00:19:13,320 --> 00:19:17,679 Speaker 3: open countries such as marshland. However, Pinch notes that in 320 00:19:17,800 --> 00:19:21,360 Speaker 3: later art the binu bird is depicted somewhat differently as 321 00:19:21,400 --> 00:19:25,680 Speaker 3: a huge heron, and this is why you'll see pictures 322 00:19:25,680 --> 00:19:28,920 Speaker 3: of a heron often if you google binu. This is 323 00:19:29,119 --> 00:19:31,800 Speaker 3: I think more New Kingdom art. And I found a 324 00:19:31,800 --> 00:19:33,360 Speaker 3: photo of some of this art for you to look 325 00:19:33,400 --> 00:19:36,359 Speaker 3: at here, rob In the outline here Binu is a 326 00:19:36,400 --> 00:19:38,919 Speaker 3: heron that would have been taller than a human with 327 00:19:38,960 --> 00:19:41,880 Speaker 3: its neck outstretched, so a very big heron and extant 328 00:19:41,960 --> 00:19:46,280 Speaker 3: herons can get quite large. The still living Goliath heron 329 00:19:46,520 --> 00:19:50,080 Speaker 3: or Ardia goliath can reach a height of about five 330 00:19:50,119 --> 00:19:53,800 Speaker 3: feet or roughly one hundred and fifty centimeters, but Apparently 331 00:19:54,400 --> 00:19:58,320 Speaker 3: there was an extinct giant heron that grew even larger, 332 00:19:59,200 --> 00:20:04,160 Speaker 3: known today as the Binu heron or Arda binuids, bones 333 00:20:04,200 --> 00:20:07,439 Speaker 3: of which have been found from the Arabian Peninsula dating 334 00:20:07,480 --> 00:20:10,959 Speaker 3: back to the third millennium BCE. So this is a 335 00:20:11,040 --> 00:20:14,520 Speaker 3: giant heron that would have been alive during human history 336 00:20:14,560 --> 00:20:18,480 Speaker 3: here and so this isn't known, but it has been 337 00:20:18,640 --> 00:20:22,840 Speaker 3: speculated that this bird could have inspired the iconography of 338 00:20:22,880 --> 00:20:26,400 Speaker 3: Binu and thus also perhaps the story of the Phoenix. 339 00:20:27,080 --> 00:20:30,240 Speaker 3: Fascinating now, how much larger was this like a twenty 340 00:20:30,280 --> 00:20:35,280 Speaker 3: foot tall heron? No, it is bigger than any living heron, 341 00:20:35,920 --> 00:20:37,680 Speaker 3: but not by a huge amount. I think it would 342 00:20:37,720 --> 00:20:39,720 Speaker 3: have been roughly maybe six feet tall. 343 00:20:40,080 --> 00:20:42,800 Speaker 2: Still a big bird, yeah, absolutely, I mean it just 344 00:20:43,600 --> 00:20:46,159 Speaker 2: thevery any kind of heron species you encounter in the wild. 345 00:20:46,200 --> 00:20:50,359 Speaker 2: It's it's kind of a breathtaking and magical experience and 346 00:20:50,640 --> 00:20:56,200 Speaker 2: imagining like the largest of heron's here, this extinct species, 347 00:20:56,280 --> 00:21:15,959 Speaker 2: this would have been quite an impressive side. 348 00:21:08,760 --> 00:21:11,280 Speaker 3: Now, before we move on from Osiris Rex, there is 349 00:21:11,480 --> 00:21:13,960 Speaker 3: one interesting thing I wanted to talk about from the 350 00:21:14,320 --> 00:21:19,520 Speaker 3: sampling portion of the mission. Apparently this asteroid had some 351 00:21:19,720 --> 00:21:23,080 Speaker 3: surprises waiting for us when we got there. So I 352 00:21:23,160 --> 00:21:26,360 Speaker 3: mentioned already that the sampling mechanism how it would work 353 00:21:26,400 --> 00:21:28,639 Speaker 3: to get some of the regulars from the surface of 354 00:21:28,640 --> 00:21:33,159 Speaker 3: this asteroid. It did not involve a permanent landing, so 355 00:21:33,200 --> 00:21:35,320 Speaker 3: you didn't have to worry about that. It was a 356 00:21:35,359 --> 00:21:38,360 Speaker 3: touch and go operation, so you would descend, you would 357 00:21:38,440 --> 00:21:42,520 Speaker 3: poke the surface with the sampling arm, issue a blast 358 00:21:42,560 --> 00:21:45,600 Speaker 3: of nitrogen gas, scoop up a bunch of what was 359 00:21:45,600 --> 00:21:49,600 Speaker 3: stirred up, and then blast off and retreat immediately. But 360 00:21:49,720 --> 00:21:55,480 Speaker 3: despite this, once we actually reached the asteroid, it proved 361 00:21:55,520 --> 00:21:58,520 Speaker 3: a lot trickier of an object to touch down on 362 00:21:58,720 --> 00:22:02,080 Speaker 3: than was initially expected because it had been thought that 363 00:22:02,160 --> 00:22:05,359 Speaker 3: the surface of Binu would be relatively smooth, or at 364 00:22:05,400 --> 00:22:09,600 Speaker 3: least have large smooth patches. I think the asteroid that 365 00:22:09,720 --> 00:22:13,840 Speaker 3: had been targeted by the Japanese Hyabusa probe had more 366 00:22:13,920 --> 00:22:16,960 Speaker 3: kind of beachy areas, you know, with like smooth, fine 367 00:22:17,000 --> 00:22:20,160 Speaker 3: grained areas where you know you could select a good 368 00:22:20,240 --> 00:22:23,639 Speaker 3: landing zone. But for some reason, Binu was when we 369 00:22:23,720 --> 00:22:26,640 Speaker 3: got there, more of a sort of a hell of boulders. 370 00:22:27,240 --> 00:22:31,400 Speaker 3: It was a very rocky bouldery surface, more uneven than expected, 371 00:22:31,760 --> 00:22:34,840 Speaker 3: so the team had to very carefully map out the 372 00:22:34,880 --> 00:22:37,800 Speaker 3: surface to select an ideal landing spot, and there were 373 00:22:37,840 --> 00:22:42,080 Speaker 3: not many. They ended up selecting a place that was 374 00:22:42,119 --> 00:22:45,719 Speaker 3: known as the Nightingale Crater. But then there was another 375 00:22:45,800 --> 00:22:49,840 Speaker 3: surprise waiting when they actually went to initiate the touchdown 376 00:22:50,119 --> 00:22:55,399 Speaker 3: and sample retrieval moment. So the craft was descending and 377 00:22:55,480 --> 00:22:59,800 Speaker 3: it poked the asteroid, and then the sampling arm sank. 378 00:23:00,359 --> 00:23:03,520 Speaker 3: It sank into the surface. I've seen this described as 379 00:23:03,560 --> 00:23:06,720 Speaker 3: like poking into a swamp. Now, of course, it's not 380 00:23:06,840 --> 00:23:12,400 Speaker 3: actually that there was liquid water on the surface of Binu. Instead, 381 00:23:12,480 --> 00:23:17,080 Speaker 3: it's just that the soil covering its surface was a 382 00:23:17,440 --> 00:23:20,800 Speaker 3: lower density than expected, so the sampling arm just kind 383 00:23:20,800 --> 00:23:25,040 Speaker 3: of plunged in. I want to read a quote here 384 00:23:25,080 --> 00:23:29,000 Speaker 3: from a space dot com article by Teresa Pultova talking 385 00:23:29,080 --> 00:23:29,800 Speaker 3: about this moment. 386 00:23:30,560 --> 00:23:30,879 Speaker 2: Quote. 387 00:23:31,480 --> 00:23:34,880 Speaker 3: The descent was smooth, but when Osiris wrex' sample collection 388 00:23:35,000 --> 00:23:39,920 Speaker 3: device pressed into the asteroid surface, something unexpected happened. Contrary 389 00:23:39,920 --> 00:23:44,040 Speaker 3: to expectations, the surface behaved almost like a swamp. Within 390 00:23:44,080 --> 00:23:48,040 Speaker 3: a few seconds, the spacecraft sank nineteen inches or fifty 391 00:23:48,119 --> 00:23:52,679 Speaker 3: centimeters deep into Binu as the sample collection had sucked 392 00:23:52,720 --> 00:23:56,639 Speaker 3: in the sample, and the spacecraft's backaway thrusters fired, a 393 00:23:56,840 --> 00:24:01,080 Speaker 3: huge wall of debris rose from the crater, engulfing the 394 00:24:01,119 --> 00:24:05,960 Speaker 3: ascending spacecraft and rob I've attached some pictures for you 395 00:24:06,000 --> 00:24:08,320 Speaker 3: to look at here, because there's sort of like an 396 00:24:08,359 --> 00:24:13,280 Speaker 3: animation you can look up of this of the spacecraft's camera. 397 00:24:14,119 --> 00:24:18,120 Speaker 3: It had a camera facing directly down along the axis 398 00:24:18,160 --> 00:24:21,440 Speaker 3: of the sampling arm, so you're looking down as it's 399 00:24:21,480 --> 00:24:24,439 Speaker 3: descending towards the surface, and you can just see when 400 00:24:24,520 --> 00:24:26,919 Speaker 3: it touches suddenly it goes in and then there's this 401 00:24:27,080 --> 00:24:30,840 Speaker 3: explosion and there's just stuff all over the place, and 402 00:24:30,880 --> 00:24:33,399 Speaker 3: then it zooms back out and you can see like 403 00:24:33,560 --> 00:24:38,200 Speaker 3: before and after images of the crater where it touched down, 404 00:24:38,240 --> 00:24:41,320 Speaker 3: where like major rocks and boulders are moved all over 405 00:24:41,359 --> 00:24:44,239 Speaker 3: the place. It just seems like this is you know, 406 00:24:44,440 --> 00:24:48,880 Speaker 3: it reminds you that asteroids, especially smaller asteroids like this, 407 00:24:49,119 --> 00:24:54,680 Speaker 3: are not necessarily not necessarily solid objects. That it might 408 00:24:54,720 --> 00:24:57,080 Speaker 3: be better to think of something like Binu not as 409 00:24:57,160 --> 00:25:00,359 Speaker 3: like a solid hunk of rock in space, but like 410 00:25:00,400 --> 00:25:06,080 Speaker 3: a big pile of rubble that's loosely bound together by gravity. Wow. 411 00:25:06,600 --> 00:25:09,719 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I mean even in our descriptions of like 412 00:25:09,760 --> 00:25:11,920 Speaker 2: the size of these things, we compare them to things 413 00:25:11,960 --> 00:25:15,000 Speaker 2: like skyscrapers, you know, or how big they are in 414 00:25:15,040 --> 00:25:17,360 Speaker 2: comparison to a car, So we tend to get these 415 00:25:17,400 --> 00:25:20,399 Speaker 2: kind of solid ideas in our mind. Yeah, towards to 416 00:25:20,440 --> 00:25:24,399 Speaker 2: your point, it's more like a big ball of accumulated 417 00:25:24,480 --> 00:25:25,200 Speaker 2: space rubble. 418 00:25:25,480 --> 00:25:27,680 Speaker 3: Yeah. But despite the fact that it was a hell 419 00:25:27,720 --> 00:25:30,960 Speaker 3: of boulders and sort of a dry swamp of sadness, 420 00:25:31,000 --> 00:25:34,880 Speaker 3: the mission was a success. We got plenty of material 421 00:25:34,920 --> 00:25:38,000 Speaker 3: from the surface. I think the initial goal was to 422 00:25:38,000 --> 00:25:40,399 Speaker 3: get at least sixty grams and they got well over that, 423 00:25:40,480 --> 00:25:43,920 Speaker 3: so plenty of material to study. And now the spacecraft 424 00:25:44,000 --> 00:25:48,720 Speaker 3: is being repurposed. It is slated to enter the orbit 425 00:25:48,840 --> 00:25:53,320 Speaker 3: of the asteroid Apofice in twenty twenty nine. Apotus, by 426 00:25:53,359 --> 00:25:55,800 Speaker 3: the way, another Egyptian mythology tie in. 427 00:25:56,440 --> 00:25:58,960 Speaker 2: Yeah, this is the great Serpent. I believe right. 428 00:25:59,240 --> 00:26:03,520 Speaker 3: It's a monster god figure associated with chaos and destruction, 429 00:26:03,760 --> 00:26:05,840 Speaker 3: kind of reptilian in nature. 430 00:26:06,280 --> 00:26:10,159 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, Pinch describes it. It's sometimes depicted more like 431 00:26:10,200 --> 00:26:12,520 Speaker 2: a crocodile, but more frequently as a great serpent, and 432 00:26:12,560 --> 00:26:15,439 Speaker 2: it is like it is one of, if not the 433 00:26:15,480 --> 00:26:21,480 Speaker 2: most important chaos monster of Egyptian mythology. 434 00:26:22,280 --> 00:26:26,639 Speaker 3: But interesting thing to study because Apophus was previously thought 435 00:26:27,200 --> 00:26:31,879 Speaker 3: to be an asteroid that may in fact threaten Earth, 436 00:26:32,080 --> 00:26:36,840 Speaker 3: but because of the unpredictability of its orbit, when later 437 00:26:36,880 --> 00:26:39,440 Speaker 3: we got more precision about its trajectory, it was sort 438 00:26:39,440 --> 00:26:41,760 Speaker 3: of ruled out. So for a while people were thinking, oh, 439 00:26:41,840 --> 00:26:44,960 Speaker 3: this one might really be a candidate for danger, but 440 00:26:45,200 --> 00:26:48,480 Speaker 3: actually now it's it's nothing to worry about, but still 441 00:26:48,600 --> 00:26:49,280 Speaker 3: worth study. 442 00:26:49,640 --> 00:26:53,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, And the more we understand how these things 443 00:26:53,119 --> 00:26:56,400 Speaker 2: move and what impacts their course, the more we can 444 00:26:56,520 --> 00:26:59,240 Speaker 2: protect ourselves, and the more the more information we have 445 00:26:59,320 --> 00:27:05,120 Speaker 2: moving forward. Thus, again the security aspect of the Osiris 446 00:27:05,160 --> 00:27:09,359 Speaker 2: rex that we just described earlier, that's o Cyrus rex 447 00:27:09,840 --> 00:27:12,639 Speaker 2: in all caps except for the X, because again it 448 00:27:12,720 --> 00:27:17,000 Speaker 2: is a regular explorer at the end. All right, Well, 449 00:27:17,040 --> 00:27:19,439 Speaker 2: from there, the next logical place to go is of 450 00:27:19,440 --> 00:27:23,879 Speaker 2: course to talk about bees, perfect and in general. You know, 451 00:27:23,960 --> 00:27:26,639 Speaker 2: this is a fine area of connection for an Egyptian god, 452 00:27:26,680 --> 00:27:30,880 Speaker 2: because the ancient Egyptians were particularly connected with the honeybee. 453 00:27:32,800 --> 00:27:35,680 Speaker 2: As biologist, author and former guests on the show Jen 454 00:27:35,760 --> 00:27:38,760 Speaker 2: Kritsky points out in his excellent twenty fifteen book The 455 00:27:38,800 --> 00:27:43,000 Speaker 2: Tiers of Ray. The honey bee was a pervasive cultural 456 00:27:43,040 --> 00:27:45,680 Speaker 2: motif in ancient Egypt, in large part because of their 457 00:27:46,640 --> 00:27:50,840 Speaker 2: perceived connection to the sun god Ray or Raw, whose 458 00:27:50,960 --> 00:27:54,200 Speaker 2: very tears were said to be honeybees. And on top 459 00:27:54,240 --> 00:27:56,960 Speaker 2: of this, honey and other bee products like wax were 460 00:27:57,000 --> 00:28:01,120 Speaker 2: prized and used for a variety of medicinal, culinary, very religious, 461 00:28:01,160 --> 00:28:05,760 Speaker 2: and economic purposes. So again, that's that's that's the god 462 00:28:05,840 --> 00:28:09,040 Speaker 2: ray or Raw. And you know, as we already alluded 463 00:28:09,040 --> 00:28:11,919 Speaker 2: to in this episode, there are connections between Ray and 464 00:28:12,000 --> 00:28:15,280 Speaker 2: Raw and of Cyrus. But you may be wondering, okay, 465 00:28:15,320 --> 00:28:19,639 Speaker 2: are there any specific bee connections to Osiris? So I 466 00:28:19,680 --> 00:28:22,080 Speaker 2: have Kritsky's book on the shelf here, so I picked 467 00:28:22,119 --> 00:28:24,080 Speaker 2: it up and I consulted it once more to see 468 00:28:24,600 --> 00:28:28,000 Speaker 2: what he had to say specifically about Osiris. So I'm 469 00:28:28,040 --> 00:28:30,560 Speaker 2: going to run through just a few examples here. The 470 00:28:30,600 --> 00:28:34,760 Speaker 2: book includes an image from the Tomb of Usarat depicting 471 00:28:34,960 --> 00:28:40,000 Speaker 2: the offering of honeycomb to Osiris. So this is Theban 472 00:28:40,080 --> 00:28:43,280 Speaker 2: Tomb t. T. Fifty six in the Theban Necropolis near 473 00:28:43,360 --> 00:28:47,680 Speaker 2: Luxor New Kingdom period. I believe he also has an 474 00:28:47,680 --> 00:28:51,760 Speaker 2: example He mentions the Tomb of Minmos, which includes the 475 00:28:51,800 --> 00:28:58,360 Speaker 2: passage Osiris bee keeper of Aman, bearer of incense, minmost justified, 476 00:28:58,640 --> 00:29:02,000 Speaker 2: possessor of honor before the Great God, And this is 477 00:29:02,040 --> 00:29:06,040 Speaker 2: from the eighteenth or nineteenth dynasty, I believe indirectly. The 478 00:29:06,320 --> 00:29:10,400 Speaker 2: Salt eight twenty five Papyrus includes a spell that involves 479 00:29:10,520 --> 00:29:14,280 Speaker 2: using bees wax figures to quote kill the name of 480 00:29:14,360 --> 00:29:19,360 Speaker 2: Seth in this case used against Seth. But such figurines 481 00:29:19,400 --> 00:29:23,160 Speaker 2: made out of wax, which rarely survived, were seemingly burnt 482 00:29:23,280 --> 00:29:26,320 Speaker 2: in spells against mundane enemies as well, So you could 483 00:29:26,360 --> 00:29:30,320 Speaker 2: use them against great cosmic entities like Seth, but you 484 00:29:30,320 --> 00:29:33,080 Speaker 2: could also use them just to guess against your actual 485 00:29:33,160 --> 00:29:38,760 Speaker 2: real world enemies. Okay, and Kritzky also includes some other 486 00:29:38,840 --> 00:29:42,520 Speaker 2: mentions to support the idea that honey or honeycomb, in particular, 487 00:29:43,240 --> 00:29:47,680 Speaker 2: these were often used in temple rituals concerning gods, including 488 00:29:47,960 --> 00:29:50,479 Speaker 2: the God of Cyrus. So are we going to talk 489 00:29:50,480 --> 00:29:53,520 Speaker 2: about honey bees now? No, We're in fact going to 490 00:29:53,560 --> 00:29:57,240 Speaker 2: talk about a genus of bee found only in Central 491 00:29:57,280 --> 00:30:01,640 Speaker 2: and South America, so completely removed from ancient Egyptian culture, 492 00:30:02,000 --> 00:30:06,880 Speaker 2: but still named after Osiris. So the genus Osiris is 493 00:30:06,880 --> 00:30:12,680 Speaker 2: classified under the Osserini tribe, which in turn is classified 494 00:30:12,760 --> 00:30:16,600 Speaker 2: under the family Apidae, which itself contains well over five 495 00:30:16,640 --> 00:30:19,200 Speaker 2: thousand species of bees. So I looked at a few 496 00:30:19,200 --> 00:30:21,719 Speaker 2: different bee manuals on this. Ultimately we're dealing with some 497 00:30:21,760 --> 00:30:24,160 Speaker 2: bees here that are not as well researched, and we'll 498 00:30:24,160 --> 00:30:28,400 Speaker 2: get into some of the reasons for that. But as 499 00:30:28,600 --> 00:30:32,120 Speaker 2: Charles Duncan Mitchner, this guy was one of the leading 500 00:30:32,120 --> 00:30:35,120 Speaker 2: experts on bees who of nineteen eighteen through twenty fifteen. 501 00:30:35,640 --> 00:30:38,360 Speaker 2: He describes them in the Bees of the World, Volume 502 00:30:38,440 --> 00:30:43,360 Speaker 2: one from two thousand as colecto parasites. They seem to 503 00:30:43,560 --> 00:30:51,600 Speaker 2: have likely evolved independently of no benedet kleptoparasitic bees, and 504 00:30:51,720 --> 00:30:54,480 Speaker 2: this is based on various features that they have that 505 00:30:54,520 --> 00:30:57,800 Speaker 2: are also found in non parasitic bees, which are absent 506 00:30:58,080 --> 00:31:01,920 Speaker 2: in other examples of klepto paris bees. He points out 507 00:31:01,960 --> 00:31:07,640 Speaker 2: that Osiris bees have relatively thin, but smooth and shiny skins, 508 00:31:07,680 --> 00:31:10,800 Speaker 2: you know, kind of like smooth, shiny exoskeletons, and no 509 00:31:10,960 --> 00:31:15,880 Speaker 2: protective spines. But they do have an enormous sting and 510 00:31:15,920 --> 00:31:18,400 Speaker 2: this will we'll come back to some of the reasons 511 00:31:18,400 --> 00:31:22,000 Speaker 2: for this as we proceed here, but he writes that quote, 512 00:31:22,000 --> 00:31:26,160 Speaker 2: parasites commonly have stronger stings than their non parasitic relatives. 513 00:31:26,640 --> 00:31:29,400 Speaker 2: There are exceptions to that rule, but by and large 514 00:31:29,400 --> 00:31:33,600 Speaker 2: you'll find that they put far more evolutionary energy is 515 00:31:33,640 --> 00:31:37,800 Speaker 2: put into these kind of like offensive slash defensive weapons. 516 00:31:38,680 --> 00:31:40,560 Speaker 3: I already have some thoughts about why that might be, 517 00:31:40,680 --> 00:31:42,280 Speaker 3: but I bet you'll illuminate me. 518 00:31:42,680 --> 00:31:45,480 Speaker 2: So the whole gist of klepto parasites, as we've discussed 519 00:31:45,480 --> 00:31:47,640 Speaker 2: on the show before, comes down to the laying of 520 00:31:47,680 --> 00:31:50,960 Speaker 2: one species eggs in the nest of another species. And 521 00:31:50,960 --> 00:31:53,560 Speaker 2: the classic of that example of this from the world 522 00:31:53,560 --> 00:31:56,640 Speaker 2: of birds is of course the cuckoo bird, and here 523 00:31:56,720 --> 00:32:00,760 Speaker 2: we're talking about so called cuckoo bees. This is more 524 00:32:00,760 --> 00:32:04,360 Speaker 2: specifically known as brood parasitism. Another source I was looking 525 00:32:04,360 --> 00:32:06,640 Speaker 2: at for this is a really nice write up on 526 00:32:06,680 --> 00:32:12,680 Speaker 2: the topic on the website Entomology Today by Meredith sweet Walker, 527 00:32:13,280 --> 00:32:18,720 Speaker 2: and it's interesting. As a former avian endocrinologist, she seems 528 00:32:18,800 --> 00:32:22,440 Speaker 2: especially well positioned to compare cuckoo birds to cuckoo bees. 529 00:32:23,800 --> 00:32:26,360 Speaker 2: She points out that cuckoo bees are actually thought of 530 00:32:26,600 --> 00:32:29,400 Speaker 2: more generally as a social parasites as well, because they 531 00:32:29,560 --> 00:32:32,760 Speaker 2: generally have to infiltrate or in some cases anyway we'll 532 00:32:32,760 --> 00:32:35,440 Speaker 2: get into the details here. In many cases we're talking 533 00:32:35,440 --> 00:32:38,000 Speaker 2: about bees that have to infiltrate an entire use social 534 00:32:38,080 --> 00:32:41,880 Speaker 2: hive structure or nest structure in order to deposit their eggs. 535 00:32:42,240 --> 00:32:45,400 Speaker 2: So they can't simply sneak in, dump their egg and 536 00:32:45,480 --> 00:32:47,080 Speaker 2: run and be like he he, now you have to 537 00:32:47,120 --> 00:32:50,040 Speaker 2: raise my young. There's a lot more involved here. 538 00:32:50,040 --> 00:32:52,680 Speaker 3: Like they actually have to blend in with the hive. 539 00:32:52,840 --> 00:32:55,880 Speaker 2: Right, And I don't want to discredit the complexity of 540 00:32:56,000 --> 00:32:58,720 Speaker 2: cuckoo birds as we've talked about on the show before. 541 00:32:58,600 --> 00:33:03,560 Speaker 2: There's kind of like a mafia esque situation involved there 542 00:33:03,640 --> 00:33:06,400 Speaker 2: as well, with like additional so it's not just dump 543 00:33:06,440 --> 00:33:09,480 Speaker 2: and run with cuckoo birds either. But the world of 544 00:33:09,480 --> 00:33:11,840 Speaker 2: bees is different from the world of birds. So she 545 00:33:11,920 --> 00:33:15,000 Speaker 2: points out that in some species of bumble bee, we 546 00:33:15,040 --> 00:33:18,280 Speaker 2: see and we're talking about non parasitic bumblebees here, we 547 00:33:18,320 --> 00:33:22,480 Speaker 2: do see examples of nest usurpation, in which one queen 548 00:33:22,880 --> 00:33:26,560 Speaker 2: busts into the nest of another queen of her same species, 549 00:33:27,040 --> 00:33:31,040 Speaker 2: kills that queen and takes over the brood. So this 550 00:33:31,520 --> 00:33:34,400 Speaker 2: doesn't have to happen. It doesn't always happen, It only 551 00:33:34,400 --> 00:33:37,760 Speaker 2: occurs under certain ecological conditions. You could probably, you know, 552 00:33:37,800 --> 00:33:42,000 Speaker 2: compare this broadly to things like cannibalism, where you know, 553 00:33:42,040 --> 00:33:45,600 Speaker 2: you have species that are not obligate cannibals by any stretch, 554 00:33:45,680 --> 00:33:48,640 Speaker 2: but if conditions are right, they will engage in that behavior. 555 00:33:49,000 --> 00:33:54,040 Speaker 3: Right, Obligate cannibalism is impossible, yeah, but you can have 556 00:33:54,080 --> 00:33:57,560 Speaker 3: an adaptation that where a certain type of animal is 557 00:33:57,640 --> 00:34:02,000 Speaker 3: more inclined to resort to cannibalism if conditions are dire. 558 00:34:02,280 --> 00:34:06,840 Speaker 2: Right, right. So here with brood parasitism, we do, on 559 00:34:06,880 --> 00:34:10,359 Speaker 2: the other hand, have true klepto parasite bees that are 560 00:34:10,520 --> 00:34:14,480 Speaker 2: obligate brood parasites. They have evolved to depend on the 561 00:34:14,560 --> 00:34:19,239 Speaker 2: practice absolutely otherwise they can't reproduce at all, and obviously 562 00:34:19,320 --> 00:34:21,920 Speaker 2: all of their efforts have to be aimed on another 563 00:34:21,960 --> 00:34:25,640 Speaker 2: bee species. So that's sort of the origin story of 564 00:34:25,680 --> 00:34:27,080 Speaker 2: how we kind of get to this area where we 565 00:34:27,160 --> 00:34:32,640 Speaker 2: have obligate brood parasitic bees. So cuckoo bumblebees, she points out, 566 00:34:32,680 --> 00:34:36,040 Speaker 2: can't produce their own workers. They lack pollen baskets on 567 00:34:36,080 --> 00:34:39,360 Speaker 2: their legs. This prevents them from feeding their own offspring, 568 00:34:39,800 --> 00:34:42,319 Speaker 2: and they also can't produce enough wax to build their 569 00:34:42,320 --> 00:34:45,160 Speaker 2: own nests. So without those adaptations, you know, that kind 570 00:34:45,160 --> 00:34:49,960 Speaker 2: of frees you up from like an evolutionary energy standpoint, 571 00:34:50,400 --> 00:34:53,040 Speaker 2: where do they focus that extra energy? Will they focus 572 00:34:53,040 --> 00:34:58,400 Speaker 2: it into the blunt offensive power needed to conquer another brood? 573 00:34:58,840 --> 00:35:03,560 Speaker 2: So we're talking busting in, overpowering other workers. If workers 574 00:35:03,560 --> 00:35:09,279 Speaker 2: are present, killing the rival queen, and then taking over 575 00:35:09,320 --> 00:35:11,600 Speaker 2: the nest, And what do you need to carry this out? Well, 576 00:35:11,640 --> 00:35:14,720 Speaker 2: in many cases you need heavier armor to protect yourself, 577 00:35:15,000 --> 00:35:18,520 Speaker 2: more powerful mandibles, and key to what we just said earlier, 578 00:35:18,640 --> 00:35:24,160 Speaker 2: an enhanced stinger. But she stresses that target selection is 579 00:35:24,200 --> 00:35:26,520 Speaker 2: also key here because if they go after the if 580 00:35:26,560 --> 00:35:29,360 Speaker 2: a cuckoo bumblebee goes after a nest that's too large, 581 00:35:29,960 --> 00:35:32,200 Speaker 2: the workers are just going to overpower her and kill 582 00:35:32,239 --> 00:35:35,200 Speaker 2: her in self defense. And if the nest is too small, 583 00:35:35,520 --> 00:35:37,680 Speaker 2: while she may conquer it, but then there won't have there 584 00:35:37,680 --> 00:35:41,040 Speaker 2: won't be enough of a work force to serve her need. 585 00:35:41,239 --> 00:35:45,880 Speaker 2: So it's it's kind of a delicate balance. Interesting, but ultimately, 586 00:35:46,520 --> 00:35:49,680 Speaker 2: the battle and the regicide here is only the first 587 00:35:49,719 --> 00:35:53,040 Speaker 2: phase because Afterwards, the conqueror has to be able to 588 00:35:53,120 --> 00:35:56,640 Speaker 2: quickly de escalate things and convince the colony that she's 589 00:35:56,719 --> 00:36:00,880 Speaker 2: the rightful queen and that work can continue mostly as before. 590 00:36:01,320 --> 00:36:02,920 Speaker 2: And I guess you can. You know, you can easily 591 00:36:03,360 --> 00:36:07,439 Speaker 2: anthromorphize here and compare this to you know, examples from 592 00:36:07,480 --> 00:36:10,440 Speaker 2: like military history, like, Okay, you're going to conquer a kingdom, 593 00:36:10,480 --> 00:36:12,759 Speaker 2: but now what are you going to rule it? And 594 00:36:12,760 --> 00:36:14,200 Speaker 2: what do you have to do in order to pull 595 00:36:14,239 --> 00:36:14,640 Speaker 2: that off? 596 00:36:15,000 --> 00:36:17,800 Speaker 3: Yeah, I guess there's some persuasion involved. 597 00:36:17,320 --> 00:36:20,400 Speaker 2: There, right, And so in the world of bees, scent 598 00:36:20,680 --> 00:36:25,080 Speaker 2: is absolutely key with the interloper, uh, the invader, the 599 00:36:25,200 --> 00:36:29,560 Speaker 2: klepto parasite, depending largely on one of two strategies depending 600 00:36:29,560 --> 00:36:33,520 Speaker 2: on species. So one strategy is simply scent acquisition. So 601 00:36:34,080 --> 00:36:38,040 Speaker 2: the cuckoo bees mumblebees that use this method, they don't 602 00:36:38,040 --> 00:36:39,960 Speaker 2: have much of a scent on their own. They're kind 603 00:36:39,960 --> 00:36:43,280 Speaker 2: of like scent neutral, you know, stealth scent, I guess, 604 00:36:43,640 --> 00:36:46,560 Speaker 2: and they just simply acquire the scent of the nest 605 00:36:46,680 --> 00:36:51,200 Speaker 2: they've invaded via contact with workers and various nest materials. 606 00:36:51,719 --> 00:36:54,600 Speaker 3: Okay, so there's stuff lying around that smells, right, you 607 00:36:54,640 --> 00:36:56,799 Speaker 3: can just kind of like rub yourself on all that 608 00:36:56,880 --> 00:36:58,080 Speaker 3: and it'll be good enough. 609 00:36:58,360 --> 00:37:01,920 Speaker 2: Right. But the more advanced method here is actual scent mimicry. 610 00:37:02,440 --> 00:37:04,759 Speaker 2: And this is a case where the cuckoo bumblebees in 611 00:37:04,840 --> 00:37:08,520 Speaker 2: question actively mimic the chemical cues of the host species. 612 00:37:08,960 --> 00:37:11,600 Speaker 3: Wow, I wonder what is the mechanism for doing that, 613 00:37:11,680 --> 00:37:14,879 Speaker 3: being able to like sample a smell and then recreate 614 00:37:14,920 --> 00:37:15,680 Speaker 3: it yourself. 615 00:37:16,480 --> 00:37:18,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, or you know, they have evolved over time to 616 00:37:19,280 --> 00:37:21,960 Speaker 2: prey on particular you know, a particular species or a 617 00:37:22,000 --> 00:37:26,120 Speaker 2: particular suite of species. I'm guessing here, So yeah, it's 618 00:37:26,239 --> 00:37:28,520 Speaker 2: it's it's interesting, like in one case, either just simply 619 00:37:28,560 --> 00:37:33,560 Speaker 2: acquiring the necessary sense to command the new environment, or 620 00:37:33,800 --> 00:37:36,880 Speaker 2: you have evolved over time to be able to mimic 621 00:37:37,000 --> 00:37:38,400 Speaker 2: the necessary chemical cues. 622 00:37:39,000 --> 00:37:39,080 Speaker 1: Uh. 623 00:37:39,239 --> 00:37:43,560 Speaker 2: In either case, it is, it's it's it's fascinating manipulation, uh, 624 00:37:44,160 --> 00:37:46,120 Speaker 2: of a of a use social environment. 625 00:37:46,560 --> 00:37:56,279 Speaker 3: Yeah. 626 00:37:56,840 --> 00:37:59,760 Speaker 2: Now, Walker strusted that there's much that's not known about 627 00:37:59,800 --> 00:38:05,600 Speaker 2: how all these bees function. They're they're pretty understudied. For instance, 628 00:38:05,640 --> 00:38:08,960 Speaker 2: it's assumed that workers continue to raise the alien larvae 629 00:38:09,440 --> 00:38:13,240 Speaker 2: because at this point their resistance to outsiders in general 630 00:38:13,280 --> 00:38:15,200 Speaker 2: has been lowered. But we just don't know for sure. 631 00:38:15,840 --> 00:38:18,839 Speaker 2: And I feel like we might have touched on this 632 00:38:18,920 --> 00:38:22,600 Speaker 2: before regarding parasites in general, but she points out that 633 00:38:22,600 --> 00:38:25,719 Speaker 2: one of the reasons that brood parasites parasite bees are 634 00:38:25,800 --> 00:38:29,319 Speaker 2: understudied in general is that we easily fall into making 635 00:38:29,360 --> 00:38:33,160 Speaker 2: a kind of moral judgment about parasites, and so you 636 00:38:33,440 --> 00:38:36,720 Speaker 2: often see people who study bees tending to gravitate towards 637 00:38:36,800 --> 00:38:40,440 Speaker 2: non parasitic species, even thinking of them as quote unquote 638 00:38:40,600 --> 00:38:44,719 Speaker 2: true bees, you know, sort of siding with the complex 639 00:38:45,239 --> 00:38:47,920 Speaker 2: sort of you know, use social civilization builders, and you 640 00:38:47,960 --> 00:38:51,440 Speaker 2: don't want to side with the invaders, the thieves and 641 00:38:51,480 --> 00:38:52,160 Speaker 2: the tyrants. 642 00:38:52,480 --> 00:38:54,960 Speaker 3: Uh huh, Yeah, I'd go out on a limb and say, 643 00:38:54,960 --> 00:38:56,280 Speaker 3: these bees don't know any better. 644 00:38:57,920 --> 00:39:00,440 Speaker 2: Yeah, there's I mean really even I mean that's the 645 00:39:00,440 --> 00:39:03,560 Speaker 2: thing about the about even a use social uh you 646 00:39:03,560 --> 00:39:08,040 Speaker 2: know bee hive situation. Uh, there's no good or evil there. 647 00:39:08,160 --> 00:39:12,040 Speaker 2: There is just there's just life. There is just the uh, 648 00:39:12,840 --> 00:39:16,560 Speaker 2: the will of the hive. But uh, anyway, getting back 649 00:39:16,560 --> 00:39:19,120 Speaker 2: to osiris bees, and again with a huge caveat that 650 00:39:19,200 --> 00:39:21,560 Speaker 2: there's a lot we don't know, and that in general, 651 00:39:22,000 --> 00:39:26,319 Speaker 2: parasitic bees are understudied and Osiris bees as well. So 652 00:39:26,440 --> 00:39:29,200 Speaker 2: Osirius bees are not bumblebees. So a lot of what 653 00:39:29,239 --> 00:39:32,719 Speaker 2: I just said is not going to actually apply to 654 00:39:32,760 --> 00:39:35,759 Speaker 2: what we're talking about here. Uh so these are these 655 00:39:35,760 --> 00:39:39,120 Speaker 2: bees are more wasp like in appearance. I included a 656 00:39:39,120 --> 00:39:41,560 Speaker 2: picture of one individual for you to look at below 657 00:39:41,600 --> 00:39:44,000 Speaker 2: here Joe, but anyone else out there, you can easily 658 00:39:44,040 --> 00:39:47,960 Speaker 2: do a Google image search, and there various entomology profile 659 00:39:48,040 --> 00:39:53,480 Speaker 2: pages with images. Uh they're they're they're generally pale, sometimes 660 00:39:53,600 --> 00:39:58,359 Speaker 2: almost yellow or green, And according to Sam Droge and 661 00:39:58,480 --> 00:40:01,719 Speaker 2: Lawrence Packer in the book An up Close Look at 662 00:40:01,719 --> 00:40:05,200 Speaker 2: Pollinators around the World, most of the time when an 663 00:40:05,320 --> 00:40:08,839 Speaker 2: entomologist names something after a god from any mythology, they're 664 00:40:08,880 --> 00:40:11,200 Speaker 2: basically just sort of showing off their knowledge of mythology, 665 00:40:11,600 --> 00:40:14,359 Speaker 2: you know, just saying like, you probably shouldn't read too 666 00:40:14,440 --> 00:40:19,040 Speaker 2: much into the invocation of any god, much less Osiris 667 00:40:19,080 --> 00:40:21,560 Speaker 2: in this case. But they do point out that the 668 00:40:21,560 --> 00:40:25,719 Speaker 2: invocation of Osiris is perhaps kind of on point here 669 00:40:26,200 --> 00:40:30,319 Speaker 2: given the colorization, because again, remember the green skin of Osiris, 670 00:40:30,719 --> 00:40:34,120 Speaker 2: and with Osiris bees, the skin is also reportedly often 671 00:40:34,400 --> 00:40:37,560 Speaker 2: kind of this pale green or pale yellowish green color. 672 00:40:38,080 --> 00:40:40,480 Speaker 2: I don't know that that's particularly present in the image 673 00:40:40,480 --> 00:40:44,400 Speaker 2: that I included here for you, Joe, but still I 674 00:40:44,440 --> 00:40:45,399 Speaker 2: will value. 675 00:40:45,040 --> 00:40:47,520 Speaker 3: The connection here fair enough. I don't think I've ever 676 00:40:47,520 --> 00:40:50,480 Speaker 3: seen a green looking bee. I'd like to see that now. 677 00:40:50,520 --> 00:40:54,399 Speaker 2: As we mentioned earlier, these Osiris bees also pack very 678 00:40:54,480 --> 00:40:58,000 Speaker 2: large stingers, so I think that the species number I've 679 00:40:58,040 --> 00:41:01,120 Speaker 2: seen for Osiris bees is something like thirty two, perhaps 680 00:41:01,160 --> 00:41:04,319 Speaker 2: more than that, but not by a tremendous amount, and 681 00:41:04,640 --> 00:41:07,480 Speaker 2: is mentioned already and is cited as well in Lawrence 682 00:41:07,480 --> 00:41:10,560 Speaker 2: Packer's Bees of the World. Yeah, they have these oversized stingers, 683 00:41:11,320 --> 00:41:14,719 Speaker 2: but they also don't have the extra armor associated with 684 00:41:14,880 --> 00:41:18,160 Speaker 2: various like cuckoo bumble bees, so they're actually rather slim 685 00:41:18,200 --> 00:41:23,080 Speaker 2: and smooth. So they're not just complete tanks. We might 686 00:41:23,120 --> 00:41:26,040 Speaker 2: think of them a little differently, almost more like a 687 00:41:26,280 --> 00:41:30,399 Speaker 2: sleek assassin with an oversized weapon. Okay, and indeed that's 688 00:41:30,520 --> 00:41:32,719 Speaker 2: that's how Packer kind of describes them. It's kind of 689 00:41:32,760 --> 00:41:39,200 Speaker 2: an egg assassin so or queen assassin. So they have 690 00:41:39,280 --> 00:41:43,120 Speaker 2: the greatly oversized stinger that's curved, and even the abdomen 691 00:41:43,200 --> 00:41:46,760 Speaker 2: harnessing the stinger is elongated, so it gives them extra reach. 692 00:41:47,280 --> 00:41:49,839 Speaker 2: So you can kind of think of like a swordsman 693 00:41:49,960 --> 00:41:52,000 Speaker 2: using a rape year, you know, how they're able to 694 00:41:52,120 --> 00:41:55,000 Speaker 2: lunge in and close the distance a lot more effectively. 695 00:41:56,160 --> 00:41:58,680 Speaker 2: And he says that that quote there is evidence that 696 00:41:58,719 --> 00:42:01,600 Speaker 2: the sting is used to kill the host egg, and 697 00:42:01,640 --> 00:42:05,200 Speaker 2: in the book by Packer and Droje, they also point 698 00:42:05,200 --> 00:42:08,200 Speaker 2: out that the adaptation could be primarily for dealing with 699 00:42:08,280 --> 00:42:12,200 Speaker 2: the main nest. Document they also stress, quote, almost nothing 700 00:42:12,280 --> 00:42:15,120 Speaker 2: is known about the makeup of these nests parasites. But 701 00:42:15,600 --> 00:42:18,520 Speaker 2: it's my understanding, based on the context of these descriptions 702 00:42:18,560 --> 00:42:22,720 Speaker 2: and some details about the bees that they seem to target, 703 00:42:23,160 --> 00:42:25,799 Speaker 2: that these are not large hives or nests that they're 704 00:42:25,840 --> 00:42:29,600 Speaker 2: going after, but rather they're going after solitary ground nesting 705 00:42:29,640 --> 00:42:33,560 Speaker 2: bees here, oh okay, and thus they don't apparently have 706 00:42:33,640 --> 00:42:36,640 Speaker 2: to protect themselves from a whole bunch of workers. It's 707 00:42:36,680 --> 00:42:41,279 Speaker 2: not this full blown battle tank invasion like we see 708 00:42:41,320 --> 00:42:44,719 Speaker 2: in some of these cuckoo bumblebees. Instead, it's like, get 709 00:42:44,719 --> 00:42:47,279 Speaker 2: in there, do what you got to do, Stab an 710 00:42:47,280 --> 00:42:51,200 Speaker 2: egg that's already there, kill the queen if she is 711 00:42:51,239 --> 00:42:54,600 Speaker 2: already there and she messes with you. But that's the 712 00:42:54,640 --> 00:42:55,160 Speaker 2: extent of it. 713 00:42:56,280 --> 00:42:57,640 Speaker 3: The infiltrator model. 714 00:42:58,400 --> 00:43:02,839 Speaker 2: Yeah, so again with this case, not a lot of 715 00:43:02,840 --> 00:43:07,279 Speaker 2: connective tissue between Osiris the god and the thing named 716 00:43:07,280 --> 00:43:09,640 Speaker 2: after Osiris. But you know, now that we've talked about 717 00:43:09,640 --> 00:43:14,480 Speaker 2: both Osiris Rex and Osiris bees, I do see like 718 00:43:14,560 --> 00:43:17,600 Speaker 2: some sort of loose similarities here. Like we talked about 719 00:43:17,640 --> 00:43:21,000 Speaker 2: how the god Osiris is the opener of the way, 720 00:43:21,120 --> 00:43:25,080 Speaker 2: you know, he's the he goes somewhere in a sense 721 00:43:25,120 --> 00:43:29,080 Speaker 2: that has never been visited before. He makes it possible 722 00:43:29,120 --> 00:43:32,560 Speaker 2: for others to go there as well, you know, brings 723 00:43:33,000 --> 00:43:37,399 Speaker 2: knowledge or you know, and is one that journeys. And 724 00:43:37,480 --> 00:43:40,840 Speaker 2: certainly with Osiris Rex, this lines up with some of this. 725 00:43:41,040 --> 00:43:43,239 Speaker 2: You know, goes to a place that we have not 726 00:43:43,360 --> 00:43:46,600 Speaker 2: explored before, makes certain things possible in the future that 727 00:43:46,680 --> 00:43:49,400 Speaker 2: are even protective in nature. And I don't know with 728 00:43:49,440 --> 00:43:52,640 Speaker 2: the Osiris bees, you know, it's a little more if 729 00:43:52,640 --> 00:43:57,319 Speaker 2: we're to again anthropomorphized recklessly, kind of sinister, but these 730 00:43:57,320 --> 00:44:01,680 Speaker 2: are bees that open away that venture somewhere else and 731 00:44:01,840 --> 00:44:05,480 Speaker 2: make life possible in a way that it wasn't possible 732 00:44:05,480 --> 00:44:08,640 Speaker 2: before there at least for this for their species. 733 00:44:09,000 --> 00:44:10,920 Speaker 3: I thought you were going to make the connection between 734 00:44:10,960 --> 00:44:14,680 Speaker 3: the Osiris bees and Osiris Rex because of the stinger 735 00:44:14,840 --> 00:44:15,879 Speaker 3: and the sampling arm. 736 00:44:16,080 --> 00:44:17,799 Speaker 2: There you go. I think there's a connection to be 737 00:44:17,840 --> 00:44:22,520 Speaker 2: made there, long stinger, long sampling arm, and we were 738 00:44:22,560 --> 00:44:25,279 Speaker 2: comparing mosquitos earlier. But you know, we get into some 739 00:44:25,280 --> 00:44:28,560 Speaker 2: of the particulars here, and we're often talking about repurposed 740 00:44:28,600 --> 00:44:33,520 Speaker 2: ovipositors and so forth. So yeah, I think that's valid 741 00:44:33,520 --> 00:44:36,239 Speaker 2: as well. All right, well, we're going to go ahead 742 00:44:36,280 --> 00:44:38,319 Speaker 2: and close the book here Again. There you'll find some 743 00:44:38,360 --> 00:44:42,879 Speaker 2: other things named after Osiris. There are some exoplanets, some asteroids, 744 00:44:42,920 --> 00:44:48,520 Speaker 2: some individual craters that are named after Osiris. But I 745 00:44:48,520 --> 00:44:52,319 Speaker 2: feel like these were the most compelling examples to draw 746 00:44:52,440 --> 00:44:54,600 Speaker 2: on for this episode. But if you disagree, if you 747 00:44:54,600 --> 00:44:58,680 Speaker 2: have a particular favorite Osiris, or if you in your 748 00:44:58,719 --> 00:45:01,279 Speaker 2: line of work or some line of work you're familiar with, 749 00:45:01,520 --> 00:45:06,480 Speaker 2: there is another acronym involving or invoking of Cyrus or 750 00:45:06,520 --> 00:45:10,600 Speaker 2: any other interesting Egyptian mythological figure, write in we would 751 00:45:10,640 --> 00:45:13,400 Speaker 2: love to hear about it. Just a reminder that stuff 752 00:45:13,400 --> 00:45:15,239 Speaker 2: to blow your mind. It is primarily a science and 753 00:45:15,239 --> 00:45:19,800 Speaker 2: culture podcast with core episodes on Tuesdays and Thursdays. On Mondays, 754 00:45:19,840 --> 00:45:21,719 Speaker 2: we do listener mail on Wednesdays we do a short 755 00:45:21,760 --> 00:45:24,320 Speaker 2: form episode, and on Fridays we set aside most serious 756 00:45:24,320 --> 00:45:26,600 Speaker 2: concerns to just talk about a weird film on Weird 757 00:45:26,719 --> 00:45:27,839 Speaker 2: House Cinema. 758 00:45:28,040 --> 00:45:31,880 Speaker 3: Huge thanks as always to our excellent audio producer JJ Posway. 759 00:45:32,280 --> 00:45:33,960 Speaker 3: If you would like to get in touch with us 760 00:45:33,960 --> 00:45:36,480 Speaker 3: with feedback on this episode or any other, to suggest 761 00:45:36,520 --> 00:45:38,520 Speaker 3: a topic for the future, or just to say hello, 762 00:45:38,719 --> 00:45:41,520 Speaker 3: you can email us at contact Stuff to Blow your 763 00:45:41,560 --> 00:45:50,000 Speaker 3: Mind dot com. 764 00:45:50,120 --> 00:45:53,040 Speaker 1: Stuff to Blow Your Mind is production of iHeartRadio. For 765 00:45:53,120 --> 00:45:55,919 Speaker 1: more podcasts from my heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, 766 00:45:56,080 --> 00:46:13,080 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.