WEBVTT - Not Alone | EP 7 | Saskia's Story 0:00:00.080 --> 0:00:03.400 If Saskia's story sounds familiar to you, it might be 0:00:03.400 --> 0:00:05.840 because of another case that's been in the news. 0:00:07.120 --> 0:00:10.320 The mass rape trial which his Sun France, has ended 0:00:10.320 --> 0:00:13.440 with fifty one men all being found guilty for what 0:00:13.480 --> 0:00:14.960 they did to Gizelle Pellico. 0:00:15.400 --> 0:00:18.640 Our top story today is the mass rape trial that 0:00:18.720 --> 0:00:20.160 has horrified France. 0:00:21.040 --> 0:00:24.880 Gizelle Pelico's story was shared around the world. See for 0:00:24.920 --> 0:00:29.360 almost a decade, her husband drugged and raped her and 0:00:29.600 --> 0:00:32.159 invited dozens of other men to. 0:00:32.159 --> 0:00:32.880 Do the same. 0:00:35.159 --> 0:00:39.239 In those years, Giselle thought she was seriously ill. She 0:00:39.360 --> 0:00:42.000 thought she was blacking out because of a possible brain 0:00:42.040 --> 0:00:46.519 tumor or maybe early onset Alzheimer's. She'd been married to 0:00:46.560 --> 0:00:50.960 her husband for nearly fifty years. She never suspected he 0:00:51.000 --> 0:00:55.120 had anything to do with her symptoms. Like Saskia, she 0:00:55.240 --> 0:00:58.279 only learned the truth when she saw videos of herself 0:00:58.320 --> 0:00:58.960 being raped. 0:01:00.240 --> 0:01:02.720 I chose to have the trial hold in an open 0:01:02.880 --> 0:01:10.840 court and hopes the public trial will help change society. 0:01:10.959 --> 0:01:14.400 When Gazelle's story made headlines in December twenty twenty four, 0:01:15.000 --> 0:01:17.480 we were a few months into talking to Saskia. 0:01:18.200 --> 0:01:19.240 We forwarded her. 0:01:19.200 --> 0:01:22.240 An article about the case. It was the first time 0:01:22.360 --> 0:01:24.480 she'd ever heard a story like her own. 0:01:25.280 --> 0:01:27.840 It was empowering. I didn't know that there are other 0:01:27.880 --> 0:01:29.200 people out there like me. 0:01:29.880 --> 0:01:36.160 But Saskia and Giselle aren't a club of two. In 0:01:36.200 --> 0:01:38.720 the last two years, there have been more and more 0:01:38.760 --> 0:01:43.240 stories like this of people raping their partners and publishing 0:01:43.360 --> 0:01:48.240 images and videos of their crimes. For example, German authorities 0:01:48.320 --> 0:01:51.840 uncovered a group chat on the app Telegram where men 0:01:51.880 --> 0:01:55.520 were sharing intimate images of their partners. Some were even 0:01:55.560 --> 0:01:59.880 sharing live videos of sexual assaults. This wasn't a group 0:02:00.120 --> 0:02:03.720 chat of ten or even one hundred men. There were 0:02:03.840 --> 0:02:09.079 seventy thousand members. The same thing happened in Italy. Thirty 0:02:09.120 --> 0:02:11.640 two thousand men on Facebook were part of a group 0:02:11.680 --> 0:02:16.680 called Mia Mowgli My Wife, where they shared non consensual 0:02:16.840 --> 0:02:21.800 intimate images. It took three thousand complaints in six years 0:02:21.840 --> 0:02:27.080 for the group to get shut down. People are just 0:02:27.200 --> 0:02:31.440 waking up to this crime, and as awareness grows, other 0:02:31.560 --> 0:02:37.760 survivors like Saskia are coming out of the shadows. 0:02:38.680 --> 0:02:40.600 When you go home at the end of the day 0:02:41.120 --> 0:02:46.359 and you crawl into bed with the man that you love, 0:02:47.280 --> 0:02:51.440 that should be the safest place you'll ever be in 0:02:51.480 --> 0:02:56.119 the world. I found out that that was the most 0:02:56.240 --> 0:03:01.800 dangerous place that I had ever been, and that is 0:03:01.840 --> 0:03:02.679 a real mind fuck. 0:03:16.200 --> 0:03:21.040 I'm Andrea Gunning and this is Betrayal, Season five, episode seven, 0:03:22.040 --> 0:03:26.679 not alone. Really quick, before we get into the episode, 0:03:27.040 --> 0:03:29.840 I have a small favor to ask you. If you're 0:03:29.919 --> 0:03:32.840 enjoying listening to Betrayal, please take a second to hit 0:03:32.880 --> 0:03:35.960 the follow button on your podcast app and please rate 0:03:36.000 --> 0:03:39.400 and review. We read all the comments, and your voices 0:03:39.440 --> 0:03:42.760 help our show improve and evolve. I really mean it 0:03:42.800 --> 0:03:46.680 when I say thank you for listening and helping us grow. Also, 0:03:46.800 --> 0:03:50.400 if you went behind the scenes content or resources, follow 0:03:50.480 --> 0:03:53.880 at Betrayal Pod on Instagram or follow me at It's 0:03:53.920 --> 0:03:54.680 Andrea Gunning. 0:03:55.280 --> 0:03:56.680 All right, onto the show. 0:03:59.120 --> 0:04:02.560 We're not finished telling Saskia's story, but before we dive 0:04:02.600 --> 0:04:05.400 deeper into this season, we need to zoom out a 0:04:05.400 --> 0:04:09.320 bit because what happened to Saskia wasn't a one off. 0:04:09.960 --> 0:04:12.960 There are people all over the world committing these kinds 0:04:13.000 --> 0:04:16.120 of crimes, and there are more survivors who are just 0:04:16.240 --> 0:04:20.120 now climbing out of the dark. In the past few years, 0:04:20.240 --> 0:04:24.120 we've heard from other people like Saskia. They're women of 0:04:24.160 --> 0:04:28.800 different ages, and different backgrounds. Their stories unfolded years or 0:04:28.839 --> 0:04:32.400 even decades apart, and they each made different choices in 0:04:32.440 --> 0:04:35.720 the aftermath of what happened to them, but they've all 0:04:35.880 --> 0:04:39.760 endured something similar, an unthinkable crime at the hands of 0:04:39.800 --> 0:04:45.560 someone they loved. We want to share the stories of 0:04:45.560 --> 0:04:48.679 three women who wrote into us. Let's start with Ember. 0:04:51.000 --> 0:04:54.520 Growing up, Ember never imagined she'd be the victim of 0:04:54.560 --> 0:04:55.359 a crime like this. 0:04:55.920 --> 0:04:59.360 Everyone described me as like just a very strong individual. 0:05:00.279 --> 0:05:02.920 I myself thought, if you're strong, you're not going to 0:05:03.000 --> 0:05:04.720 fall prey to that kind of thing. 0:05:06.160 --> 0:05:10.280 At twenty one, Ember was confident, outspoken. She knew who 0:05:10.320 --> 0:05:13.039 she was, and her faith was a big part of that. 0:05:13.600 --> 0:05:17.159 She's Christian, and she drew clear boundaries in accordance with 0:05:17.200 --> 0:05:18.000 her beliefs. 0:05:18.320 --> 0:05:22.320 I really did not want to engage in intercourse until 0:05:22.360 --> 0:05:25.000 I was married, and I was honest about that with 0:05:25.560 --> 0:05:28.600 every guy I dated, like, this is what I believe 0:05:28.680 --> 0:05:30.400 and if you don't like it, there's the door. 0:05:31.040 --> 0:05:34.880 With her fiance, she found a guy who understood, a 0:05:34.960 --> 0:05:38.799 man who'd respect her values. His name was John. 0:05:39.640 --> 0:05:42.840 At this point, we had been together for about four 0:05:42.920 --> 0:05:43.919 years on and off. 0:05:44.800 --> 0:05:48.400 During those four years, there'd been ups and downs, periods 0:05:48.440 --> 0:05:54.080 where John's mental health suffered. But finally Ember saw him 0:05:54.080 --> 0:05:57.640 becoming the man she always knew he could be. He 0:05:57.760 --> 0:06:01.920 was stable and thoughtful, and he was getting more involved 0:06:01.920 --> 0:06:02.479 in the church. 0:06:03.640 --> 0:06:06.080 I thought that it was really from a place of 0:06:06.200 --> 0:06:08.400 him growing and healing and changing. 0:06:09.240 --> 0:06:12.280 Everyone around them saw the shift in John. Their friends 0:06:12.320 --> 0:06:16.200 and family were so excited about the engagement. Even their 0:06:16.240 --> 0:06:17.600 pastor gave his approval. 0:06:18.279 --> 0:06:21.440 It's like all relationships go through really hard times. You 0:06:21.440 --> 0:06:24.800 guys seem like you're really good together, and I think 0:06:24.880 --> 0:06:28.359 this would be completely okay, and we're like okay, and 0:06:28.440 --> 0:06:31.320 I'm sitting there going if there were red flags, this 0:06:31.400 --> 0:06:34.840 person would point this out, and nobody pulled a red 0:06:34.880 --> 0:06:35.400 flag out. 0:06:38.920 --> 0:06:42.200 Their engagement was the start of a new chapter, a 0:06:42.240 --> 0:06:47.880 beautiful life together. Then a month into their engagement, Ember 0:06:48.000 --> 0:06:53.640 got sick. It started one night at John's house. She 0:06:53.760 --> 0:06:56.520 remembers sitting down to study, but after that. 0:06:57.240 --> 0:07:01.920 I don't recall anything happened other than I somehow made 0:07:01.960 --> 0:07:02.400 it home. 0:07:03.360 --> 0:07:07.839 It was like her memory just jumped. One second she 0:07:07.960 --> 0:07:12.240 was at John's, the next she was home. She explained 0:07:12.240 --> 0:07:15.920 it away, she must have had a long day dozed off, 0:07:16.760 --> 0:07:19.200 But nights like this kept happening. 0:07:19.720 --> 0:07:23.240 There were so many occasions where I would fall asleep 0:07:23.280 --> 0:07:25.880 studying and he would wake me up and be like, 0:07:25.880 --> 0:07:27.680 oh my gosh, you fell asleep again. You need to 0:07:27.760 --> 0:07:29.840 hurry up and get home, and I would be so 0:07:30.040 --> 0:07:32.800 out of it. I wouldn't know what was happening, and 0:07:32.880 --> 0:07:34.840 I just somehow make my way home. 0:07:35.680 --> 0:07:40.480 Over time, Ember started experiencing other symptoms like chronic pain 0:07:41.000 --> 0:07:42.520 without any clear cause. 0:07:43.240 --> 0:07:47.000 It was a pain that was indescribable. I couldn't sit, 0:07:47.080 --> 0:07:49.920 I couldn't stand. I just couldn't find any comfortable position, 0:07:50.080 --> 0:07:52.200 and I couldn't remember anything that had happened. 0:07:52.720 --> 0:07:53.680 And that wasn't all. 0:07:54.240 --> 0:07:57.560 I'm breaking out hives all over my body, having migraines 0:07:57.600 --> 0:07:58.720 I've never had before. 0:07:59.560 --> 0:08:02.000 Through it all, John was there for Ember. 0:08:02.960 --> 0:08:06.040 I remember him coming over to like comfort me. He 0:08:06.160 --> 0:08:08.280 just sat with me and like rubbed my back and 0:08:08.400 --> 0:08:10.560 was like, I'm so sorry you're not feeling well. 0:08:11.480 --> 0:08:14.800 He supported her as she searched for a diagnosis and 0:08:14.880 --> 0:08:18.640 went to doctor after doctor. No one could figure out 0:08:18.680 --> 0:08:19.600 what was going on. 0:08:20.320 --> 0:08:22.760 They were just like, oh, you're probably really stressed out. 0:08:23.400 --> 0:08:26.400 I was, you know, in the throes of school and 0:08:26.840 --> 0:08:30.120 working full time. And getting married and all that stuff. 0:08:30.880 --> 0:08:34.960 I was still able to function, but internally I was 0:08:34.960 --> 0:08:36.160 falling apart. 0:08:38.000 --> 0:08:40.959 Things went on like this for a year, with Ember 0:08:41.120 --> 0:08:46.040 at a total loss, just like Saskia. She wanted a solution, 0:08:46.880 --> 0:08:51.160 some answer that would tie all her symptoms together, and 0:08:51.200 --> 0:08:58.760 then one day an answer began to emerge. During this time, 0:08:58.920 --> 0:09:02.120 Ember was taking class is to become a massage therapist. 0:09:02.760 --> 0:09:06.080 On this particular day, her instructor was talking about the 0:09:06.120 --> 0:09:07.040 so as muscle. 0:09:07.360 --> 0:09:10.240 The so as muscle is a highly protective muscle that 0:09:10.320 --> 0:09:13.600 a lot of people don't even know exists. It attaches 0:09:13.640 --> 0:09:15.920 on the front of our spine, and if we are 0:09:15.920 --> 0:09:18.320 in fight or flight, it is engaged instantaneously. 0:09:18.960 --> 0:09:21.600 The instructor asked Ember to come up to the front 0:09:21.720 --> 0:09:24.880 so she could have someone to demonstrate on. This happened 0:09:24.880 --> 0:09:28.040 all the time in class, and Ember didn't think anything 0:09:28.080 --> 0:09:28.400 of it. 0:09:28.880 --> 0:09:31.160 I'm laying on the massage therapy table, all of the 0:09:31.200 --> 0:09:34.360 other students are watching, and she goes to address my 0:09:34.400 --> 0:09:41.640 so as muscle, and I immediately dissociate. I don't remember 0:09:41.640 --> 0:09:44.720 anything that happened on the table. I don't remember anything 0:09:45.040 --> 0:09:47.600 that my body did that I said. All I remember 0:09:47.920 --> 0:09:51.839 is at the end, her saying Okay, that was interesting. 0:09:53.800 --> 0:09:55.400 I get up from the table and she's like, hey, 0:09:55.440 --> 0:09:57.040 do you have a minute? Can you come outside? And 0:09:57.080 --> 0:10:01.240 I said okay, sure. She's like, do you know what 0:10:01.400 --> 0:10:04.839 just happened in there? And I was like, no, you 0:10:05.200 --> 0:10:08.160 were working on my so as. She's like, you were 0:10:08.200 --> 0:10:12.760 somewhere else. You were not present. And I really have 0:10:12.840 --> 0:10:14.480 a strong sense that I need to tell you that 0:10:14.559 --> 0:10:17.760 something's probably really wrong if you is responding in this 0:10:17.840 --> 0:10:20.880 way and causing you to go somewhere. 0:10:20.559 --> 0:10:29.240 Else, somewhere else. Lying on the massage table, her mind 0:10:29.360 --> 0:10:33.320 and body split off into separate directions, just like it 0:10:33.360 --> 0:10:38.040 did on those nights studying with John. Things were happening 0:10:38.080 --> 0:10:43.360 around her, but she couldn't remember them. Looking back, Ember 0:10:43.520 --> 0:10:45.959 now has an explanation for what was going on. 0:10:46.960 --> 0:10:48.640 I was dissociating for my trauma. 0:10:49.800 --> 0:10:52.840 The association occurs when the mind separates from the body 0:10:52.880 --> 0:10:56.040 as a way of protecting itself from harm. The brain 0:10:56.200 --> 0:11:00.760 mutes physical sensations, thoughts, and memories, such that many people 0:11:01.000 --> 0:11:04.600 coming out of dissociative episodes feel like they've just woken 0:11:04.720 --> 0:11:08.160 up from a dream, but the body stores memories of 0:11:08.200 --> 0:11:11.800 trauma even if the brain tries to push them out. 0:11:12.920 --> 0:11:17.400 That day, on the massage table, Ember's body demonstrated that 0:11:17.520 --> 0:11:18.600 something was wrong. 0:11:19.240 --> 0:11:21.400 It was kind of the beginning of my body and 0:11:21.480 --> 0:11:24.640 brain thing we need to be in this together instead 0:11:24.679 --> 0:11:29.040 of separating. In fact, it was shortly thereafter that I 0:11:29.160 --> 0:11:30.800 actually woke up mid attack. 0:11:34.240 --> 0:11:37.200 The night started the way so many others had. She 0:11:37.320 --> 0:11:40.720 was hanging out at John's house when her mind went dark. 0:11:41.800 --> 0:11:45.040 But on this night, in the midst of her dissociation, 0:11:46.240 --> 0:11:50.680 she woke up and her brain and body snapped back together. 0:11:51.679 --> 0:11:54.480 When she came to, there was someone on top of her. 0:11:55.360 --> 0:12:00.559 Her eyes focused and suddenly she could see it was John. 0:12:03.200 --> 0:12:07.200 I freaked out and I was like, what is happening. 0:12:07.800 --> 0:12:11.559 She's like nothing, nothing, nothing happened, And I'm like, there's 0:12:11.600 --> 0:12:13.320 evidence that something happened. 0:12:14.040 --> 0:12:18.120 His pants were pulled down, so were hers. And remember 0:12:18.640 --> 0:12:24.480 Ember didn't want to have sex until marriage. Immediately Ember 0:12:24.520 --> 0:12:27.719 could tell John had taken that choice away from her. 0:12:28.640 --> 0:12:30.960 In the moment, she was still groggy. 0:12:31.559 --> 0:12:34.360 I'm still not fully there, but I'm conscious enough to 0:12:34.400 --> 0:12:38.199 know something is really really wrong. But I lost it. 0:12:39.640 --> 0:12:42.199 In a daze. She threw on her clothes and ran 0:12:42.280 --> 0:12:46.520 out the door, went home, she called people she could trust, 0:12:47.040 --> 0:12:51.960 and one of those people notified the church. The next day, 0:12:52.120 --> 0:12:55.199 a pastor called John and Ember in for a meeting. 0:12:56.080 --> 0:12:58.520 And we sit down at the pastor and he's like, 0:12:58.559 --> 0:13:02.640 what's going on? All I can do is look down 0:13:02.679 --> 0:13:05.280 at my shoes. All I remember is the floor. 0:13:05.880 --> 0:13:09.840 She was quiet, but to her surprise, John spoke up 0:13:10.280 --> 0:13:14.480 and he told the pastor everything. John came right out 0:13:14.520 --> 0:13:15.840 and confessed. 0:13:16.480 --> 0:13:20.920 He was drugging me and raping me. The pastor goes, 0:13:21.559 --> 0:13:25.960 how often has this happened? He goes, this has happened 0:13:26.559 --> 0:13:30.120 probably once a week, almost the whole time we've been engaged. 0:13:32.120 --> 0:13:35.720 That is now almost an entire year. It was so 0:13:35.840 --> 0:13:39.800 much worse than anything I had ever imagined. And I'm 0:13:39.840 --> 0:13:43.520 just completely just numb, just numb. 0:13:47.080 --> 0:13:51.280 John and their pastor kept talking, but Ember tuned them out. 0:13:51.760 --> 0:13:56.880 All of her senses blurred together into one loud hum. Finally, 0:13:57.040 --> 0:13:59.839 their pastor asked John to leave the room so he 0:14:00.080 --> 0:14:02.400 could speak to Ember alone. 0:14:02.640 --> 0:14:05.679 So he leaves the room and pastor looks at me 0:14:05.720 --> 0:14:09.839 and he's like, you need to get out of this relationship. 0:14:10.320 --> 0:14:13.520 This is not safe, this is not good, this is 0:14:13.559 --> 0:14:14.600 not going to stop. 0:14:15.360 --> 0:14:18.480 But as shocked as Ember was, she wasn't ready to 0:14:18.520 --> 0:14:22.560 hear that yet. After all, she loved John and leaving 0:14:22.640 --> 0:14:25.000 him would mean calling off their wedding. 0:14:25.480 --> 0:14:27.720 Were like three months before our wedding at this point 0:14:27.720 --> 0:14:32.400 in time, and breaking that off now means I have 0:14:32.440 --> 0:14:37.120 to tell everyone what has happened. That to me was 0:14:37.320 --> 0:14:41.680 almost as devastating as realizing what had happened now everybody's 0:14:41.720 --> 0:14:46.760 gonna know. This intense desire to hide in that amount 0:14:46.760 --> 0:14:48.720 of pain was just insurmountable. 0:14:49.480 --> 0:14:53.040 Ember couldn't allow herself to face the reality of her situation. 0:14:53.760 --> 0:14:56.760 She was still holding out hope that maybe if John 0:14:56.840 --> 0:15:00.760 got treatment, it would all be okay. They could forget 0:15:00.800 --> 0:15:04.560 about this and move ahead with the wedding. So John 0:15:04.640 --> 0:15:07.000 started going to therapy, and so did she. 0:15:07.840 --> 0:15:10.960 I was seeing a therapist that specialized in sexual abuse, 0:15:11.040 --> 0:15:14.320 and he was seeing a therapist that specialized in sexual addiction. 0:15:15.320 --> 0:15:18.200 But therapy gave her different answers and the ones she 0:15:18.320 --> 0:15:24.240 was seeking. Ember and John's therapists worked at the same location. 0:15:25.040 --> 0:15:28.720 One day, while waiting for her session, John's therapist came 0:15:28.760 --> 0:15:29.880 through the waiting room. 0:15:30.240 --> 0:15:32.840 He walked past me, and then he stopped and he 0:15:32.880 --> 0:15:35.840 came back that you could see his wheels turning. He's like, 0:15:36.560 --> 0:15:39.640 I'm not supposed to say this, but I feel like 0:15:39.680 --> 0:15:43.000 you need to know. We've run through a series of 0:15:43.080 --> 0:15:47.880 diagnostic tests on your fiance. He's not a safe person. 0:15:48.720 --> 0:15:52.960 He's officially diagnosed as a sociopath, and you should get 0:15:52.960 --> 0:15:54.520 as far away from him as possible. 0:16:20.200 --> 0:16:22.960 Ember was waiting for her therapy session when she was 0:16:23.000 --> 0:16:27.440 approached by John's therapist. He told her that John was 0:16:27.480 --> 0:16:32.560 a diagnosed sociopath and she needed to protect herself. The 0:16:32.560 --> 0:16:35.640 therapist had to have felt strongly because he was taking 0:16:35.720 --> 0:16:41.760 a huge professional risk. Telling Ember threatened his license, he 0:16:41.840 --> 0:16:44.000 violated client confidentiality. 0:16:44.520 --> 0:16:47.520 But it was a godsend because honestly, if I hadn't 0:16:47.560 --> 0:16:51.040 heard those words, I think I probably would have assumed 0:16:51.600 --> 0:16:53.760 that everything was going to be okay for a lot longer. 0:16:54.880 --> 0:16:58.280 I really thought that I was doing the good Christian 0:16:58.360 --> 0:17:02.080 thing by staying with him, that sacrificing myself so that 0:17:02.200 --> 0:17:05.480 he could experience love. And that was the point where 0:17:05.520 --> 0:17:07.720 I was like, I can't marry this man. 0:17:09.800 --> 0:17:13.160 We'll hear more from Ember at the end of the episode, 0:17:13.440 --> 0:17:17.960 but now we want to introduce you to another survivor, Natalie. 0:17:18.800 --> 0:17:22.040 At twenty three, she started dating a guy we'll call Stephen. 0:17:22.840 --> 0:17:26.159 When she was with him, I felt like I was 0:17:26.640 --> 0:17:27.119 a queen. 0:17:29.080 --> 0:17:34.399 He would make me feel beautiful and smart, and he 0:17:34.400 --> 0:17:39.480 would type up these really nice poems or just say 0:17:39.720 --> 0:17:43.960 how he looks forward to spending time together and getting 0:17:44.000 --> 0:17:45.400 married and having a family. 0:17:47.280 --> 0:17:50.239 Their relationship was a long time coming. He was her 0:17:50.280 --> 0:17:54.440 best friend's older brother, and in every way their lives 0:17:54.480 --> 0:17:57.520 just seemed to fit together. They played on the same 0:17:57.600 --> 0:18:00.400 softball team, they had a lot of the same friend friends, 0:18:00.640 --> 0:18:03.200 and when they talked, the conversation flowed. 0:18:03.600 --> 0:18:06.159 It was very natural and it was just easy. I 0:18:06.240 --> 0:18:09.320 felt like we had a really strong foundation. 0:18:10.560 --> 0:18:15.680 Eventually they got engaged then married, but when Natalie got pregnant, 0:18:15.960 --> 0:18:19.560 that was when Stephen really became her rock. She was 0:18:19.640 --> 0:18:22.919 nervous about being a mom. In the months leading up 0:18:22.960 --> 0:18:23.480 to the birth. 0:18:23.880 --> 0:18:25.440 I would rearrange the nursery. 0:18:25.520 --> 0:18:27.399 I don't know how many times I rearranged it, and 0:18:27.440 --> 0:18:28.920 I'd like vacuum it every day. 0:18:29.640 --> 0:18:31.720 Stephen grounded and supported her. 0:18:32.359 --> 0:18:33.000 We had a lot of. 0:18:33.000 --> 0:18:36.480 Late nights setting things up, and I would feel bad 0:18:36.480 --> 0:18:38.320 because he would have to work in the morning. But 0:18:38.720 --> 0:18:41.560 he was all about it, all about helping and getting 0:18:41.600 --> 0:18:43.720 everything ready and being very hands on. 0:18:45.119 --> 0:18:49.000 When their son arrived, Stephen really stepped up. He made 0:18:49.080 --> 0:18:50.880 everything feel manageable. 0:18:52.160 --> 0:18:54.880 He would get up with him, he would feed him 0:18:55.080 --> 0:18:56.640 in the middle of the night, even when he had 0:18:56.640 --> 0:18:57.840 to work the next morning. 0:18:58.359 --> 0:19:00.960 He would be wanting. 0:19:00.680 --> 0:19:04.000 To help with my son and changing his diaper or 0:19:04.080 --> 0:19:06.479 just being with him to give me an hour of 0:19:06.520 --> 0:19:07.800 time for myself. 0:19:08.880 --> 0:19:12.240 Stephen was a dream dad. They were in this together 0:19:12.880 --> 0:19:15.720 and for a while they lived a great life as 0:19:15.720 --> 0:19:19.840 a family. Then came one night when their son was five, 0:19:21.880 --> 0:19:24.840 Natalie was helping him get ready for bed. He had 0:19:24.880 --> 0:19:27.800 his own tablet where he could play games and watch TV. 0:19:28.560 --> 0:19:31.480 All the family's devices were linked in a cloud. 0:19:31.640 --> 0:19:33.760 And I had his tablet because I was going to 0:19:33.800 --> 0:19:35.520 put it on the counter to charge it. 0:19:36.119 --> 0:19:38.800 She was plugging it in when she saw something on 0:19:38.840 --> 0:19:39.680 the home screen. 0:19:40.119 --> 0:19:42.480 There was like a little window that had a man 0:19:42.920 --> 0:19:47.080 and you could see a penis on the screen. I'm like, oh, 0:19:47.119 --> 0:19:51.159 my gosh, like horrified that my son could see that, 0:19:51.280 --> 0:19:52.879 And I'm like, I hope he didn't click on this, 0:19:53.000 --> 0:19:55.920 like what I didn't notice that before her. 0:19:55.880 --> 0:20:00.359 Husband was at work. Natalie messaged him right away Stephen 0:20:00.359 --> 0:20:03.160 put her at ease. He thought it must be spam. 0:20:03.320 --> 0:20:06.080 Once her son went to sleep, Natalie went back to 0:20:06.160 --> 0:20:09.280 the tablet to reset it to factory settings. 0:20:09.640 --> 0:20:12.840 I was looking in the cloud where the photos and 0:20:12.920 --> 0:20:15.160 images are because I didn't want to delete all of that, 0:20:16.600 --> 0:20:21.879 and then that's when I saw photos and videos, dozens 0:20:21.960 --> 0:20:24.760 of these clips and images. 0:20:25.320 --> 0:20:27.920 It was all graphic sexual material. 0:20:28.520 --> 0:20:29.920 I was like, I got to get this stuff off 0:20:29.960 --> 0:20:33.240 of here. But then as I'm looking through, I noticed 0:20:33.280 --> 0:20:35.200 my bedroom. 0:20:35.560 --> 0:20:38.720 She froze and she zoomed in on the photo. 0:20:39.359 --> 0:20:45.359 You can see his hands, his wedding ring, and then 0:20:45.400 --> 0:20:52.280 I realized that I am in these images. I'm just 0:20:52.320 --> 0:20:56.880 like horrified because I'm not awake. Some of them, I'm 0:20:56.880 --> 0:20:59.760 like barely conscious, and I'm like, how do I not 0:21:00.119 --> 0:21:03.520 know what's happening to me. There's no way that he's 0:21:03.560 --> 0:21:04.600 doing these things. 0:21:04.320 --> 0:21:07.080 To me, and I have no idea what's happening. 0:21:08.000 --> 0:21:09.040 I would have woken up. 0:21:12.800 --> 0:21:16.520 She kept clicking through more photos and videos, and then 0:21:16.800 --> 0:21:20.720 the images led her to fetish websites. She could see 0:21:20.760 --> 0:21:24.280 that one of the videos was posted for anyone to see. 0:21:25.000 --> 0:21:28.000 The title of the video that he had posted was 0:21:28.119 --> 0:21:34.920 something like creeping around without her knowing, and I was nauseous. 0:21:35.160 --> 0:21:39.000 I was so embarrassed, and I was I just like 0:21:39.080 --> 0:21:39.639 shut down. 0:21:39.760 --> 0:21:42.960 Really, the most upsetting part of it all. 0:21:43.560 --> 0:21:46.280 I was pregnant with my daughter when I found this. 0:21:48.560 --> 0:21:51.439 One of the things I remember thinking was, oh, my god, 0:21:52.359 --> 0:21:59.000 was I an active participant in making my daughter? And 0:21:59.160 --> 0:22:01.960 just remember thinking like, oh my god, okay, this many 0:22:02.000 --> 0:22:06.520 weeks a long and counting back like, oh my god, okay. 0:22:07.840 --> 0:22:11.080 And I remember the weekend and I remember like, oh, 0:22:11.119 --> 0:22:15.480 thank God, like okay, yes, I remember this was when 0:22:15.520 --> 0:22:16.120 it happened. 0:22:18.600 --> 0:22:21.640 When Stephen came home, she confronted him. 0:22:22.000 --> 0:22:24.080 I remember us sitting in the back room of the 0:22:24.119 --> 0:22:28.720 house and I just gave him the tablet and I 0:22:28.720 --> 0:22:32.640 had the images pulled up and I'm like, what is this? 0:22:34.440 --> 0:22:36.000 And you just kind of looked at it and was like, 0:22:37.760 --> 0:22:42.280 I have a problem. He was asking me like, let's 0:22:42.280 --> 0:22:45.639 go to count sling. Can we do counseling? And I'm thinking, 0:22:46.359 --> 0:22:52.919 I think you need counseling. From the day that I 0:22:52.960 --> 0:22:55.920 confronted him, I never slept in the same bed as him. 0:22:56.840 --> 0:22:59.720 But leaving altogether didn't feel like an option. 0:23:00.760 --> 0:23:03.359 I remember shutting down and thinking like, what am I 0:23:03.400 --> 0:23:07.840 supposed to do, like I work two days a week. 0:23:08.240 --> 0:23:11.880 He's a hands on dad. He's supporting us. I need 0:23:11.920 --> 0:23:13.720 his help. What am I going to do? 0:23:14.600 --> 0:23:16.000 So she stayed. 0:23:16.520 --> 0:23:18.840 She picked up as many shifts at work as she could, 0:23:19.359 --> 0:23:21.399 and when Steven would come home at the end of 0:23:21.400 --> 0:23:24.960 his workday, she'd find an excuse to go out. 0:23:25.240 --> 0:23:27.119 I wouldn't want to be home when he was home. 0:23:29.320 --> 0:23:33.320 As the months passed, Natalie began to uncover the full 0:23:33.480 --> 0:23:35.280 extent of Steven's abuse. 0:23:36.160 --> 0:23:39.399 I found in his bedside table, underneath some files, he 0:23:39.480 --> 0:23:43.160 had a bottle of Tailen LPM and they were all 0:23:43.200 --> 0:23:45.560 broken up and they were in pieces, and then there 0:23:45.640 --> 0:23:48.359 was some other powder stuff in the bottle too, And 0:23:48.400 --> 0:23:52.159 I'm like, that is probably what he was using and 0:23:52.280 --> 0:23:55.920 putting it in my drinks because I was not just asleep, 0:23:56.960 --> 0:23:59.520 I was literally unconscious. 0:24:00.640 --> 0:24:03.760 It shattered her sense of safety in her own body 0:24:04.520 --> 0:24:05.919 and in her own home. 0:24:07.760 --> 0:24:10.920 I didn't even want to drink anything that was opened 0:24:10.920 --> 0:24:12.640 in the house because I was afraid that he would 0:24:12.640 --> 0:24:13.639 put something in it. 0:24:14.480 --> 0:24:17.760 In the aftermath of her discovery, her friends and family 0:24:17.800 --> 0:24:21.960 could tell something had changed in her, but she kept 0:24:22.000 --> 0:24:23.359 the truth to herself. 0:24:25.359 --> 0:24:27.919 People would ask me now, are you okay or you 0:24:27.960 --> 0:24:31.280 know you're quiet. Oh I'm just tired, Oh I didn't 0:24:31.320 --> 0:24:33.920 sleep well last night, or oh I'm just nervous about 0:24:33.920 --> 0:24:38.520 the baby coming. It was so embarrassing to me. It 0:24:38.560 --> 0:24:41.160 was like I was trying to avoid really thinking about that. 0:24:42.359 --> 0:24:44.840