Speaker 1: We all like to believe in our hearts that if
Speaker 1: we come across somebody who's violent or dangerous, that we'd
Speaker 1: get a spidy sense. Did you have that feeling that
Speaker 1: he was capable or off?
Speaker 2: To be honest, I never got any of those feelings. However,
Speaker 2: I do remember this one incident that happened.
Speaker 3: This is the Idaho Massacre, a production of KAT Studios
Speaker 3: and iHeartRadio, Season two, Episode three, In Class with Coburger,
Speaker 3: I'm Courtney Armstrong, a producer at KATI Studios, with Stephanie
Speaker 3: Leidecker and Gabe Castillo. On November thirteenth, twenty twenty two,
Speaker 3: the murders of four young co eds at the University
Speaker 3: of Idaho left senseless tragedy in its wake, from the
Speaker 3: lives loss, to devastated family members and friends, to terrified
Speaker 3: students left behind wondering what's next. But beyond that is
Speaker 3: what transpired and accused murderer Brian Coeberger's orbit. We don't
Speaker 3: know of Coberger's guilt or innocence. He is presumed innocent
Speaker 3: unless otherwise determined in a court of law. What we
Speaker 3: do know is that the accused was a criminology PhD
Speaker 3: student and teacher's assistant at Washington State University, Pullman. We
Speaker 3: also know that after the murders, up until he left
Speaker 3: campus in mid December, Coberger attended classes in an effort
Speaker 3: to gain a greater understanding of what happened during that time.
Speaker 3: Stephanie Leidecker speaks with a former criminology student in Coburger's class, Cassie.
Speaker 3: Cassie has never spoken out before, and we'rewithholding her last
Speaker 3: name to protect her privacy. Here's Stephanie.
Speaker 1: There's been a lot of press about this case out there,
Speaker 1: so really our goal is always like less about the
Speaker 1: massacre itself and more about the human experience. Right, you
Speaker 1: have such a unique perspective on that. So take me
Speaker 1: back to day one, how you got to that particular
Speaker 1: school and what you're studying and kind of even the
Speaker 1: first day of class. Are you a criminology major?
Speaker 2: Not anymore?
Speaker 1: Now?
Speaker 2: That makes sense.
Speaker 1: Is that the event sometimes paths shift, right, So your
Speaker 1: destiny has been obviously wildly affected by this particular crime,
Speaker 1: so for obvious reasons. So yeah, just take me back
Speaker 1: to your experience at school and kind of how you
Speaker 1: made it to that class.
Speaker 2: All right, Well, I thought about criminology for a while
Speaker 2: because it's just like it's so interesting to get into
Speaker 2: you get to learn about literally the criminal behavior of
Speaker 2: these criminals mind and like what works. And so I
Speaker 2: was also considering psychology at the time, which is now
Speaker 2: my major. I had that as a minor. But yeah,
Speaker 2: so the second WAG I remember going, and he did
Speaker 2: introduce Brian and his other TA. I forgot his name,
Speaker 2: and then just kind of went into the details of
Speaker 2: the class. And this class was pretty big. I would
Speaker 2: say like three hundred students. It was a lecture hall,
Speaker 2: so very very big class.
Speaker 1: Just for clarity, Brian Coberger, the accused, he was the
Speaker 1: teacher's assistant, right, we always call it a TA, but
Speaker 1: that's short for teacher's assistant, right.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so he was the teacher's assistant, their little helper
Speaker 2: while they're still in school, basically just to get the knowledge.
Speaker 1: So to be a teacher's assistant, it's kind of like
Speaker 1: a secondary teacher obviously, right, they're a current student. In
Speaker 1: Brian's case, he was getting his PhD and was also
Speaker 1: working as a teacher's assistant in this particular criminology class,
Speaker 1: which makes sense. They with grading and do they participate
Speaker 1: in class.
Speaker 2: They do. Usually it's when a teacher notices a kid
Speaker 2: doing up in a booth, so kind of like just
Speaker 2: doing all their work, just really like teaching others. That's
Speaker 2: just kind of like how they pick out the tas
Speaker 2: just who stands out to them.
Speaker 1: So, so Brian was probably a pretty exemplary student in
Speaker 1: order to even have that kind of a prestigious place.
Speaker 2: Definitely, definitely, yeah, I think so he definitely had had
Speaker 2: some knowledge to get in there, and our professor was
Speaker 2: a very tough dude, so he it had to take
Speaker 2: a lot for him to see something.
Speaker 3: In a statement, Washington University's vice president of Marketing and
Speaker 3: Communication says that quote, mister Cobocker receives an appointment as
Speaker 3: a teaching assistant at Washington State University during the fall
Speaker 3: twenty twenty two semester. It is typical for students to
Speaker 3: receive a teaching assistantship or similar appointment as part of
Speaker 3: their PhD pro Wheeler explained here again, Cassie and Stephanie,
Speaker 3: what was.
Speaker 1: The class about?
Speaker 2: We covered literally how to get away with murder? Like
Speaker 2: we covered pretty good basis because our professor at the time,
Speaker 2: he was a very like knowledgeable man like he worked
Speaker 2: with judges and he was a lawyer for years and
Speaker 2: he worked with a lot of authority. So he wanted
Speaker 2: to teach it how he learned, which was case studies,
Speaker 2: like actually living it. So we went into a lot
Speaker 2: of detail about criminal behavior, the behavior why criminals do
Speaker 2: the thing. But this was more about cases. We would
Speaker 2: look over like a lot of cases and things like that,
Speaker 2: and we would go over the law, so a lot
Speaker 2: of just criminal justice things, a lot of lawyer and
Speaker 2: judge work.
Speaker 1: Is there a part of you because I'm still on
Speaker 1: the fence of I really want to believe that Ryan
Speaker 1: Colberger is innocent. He claims his innocence. I want to
Speaker 1: believe that because I like to believe that a human
Speaker 1: being couldn't pull that off. But again, I don't know
Speaker 1: him the way you do. Is there a part of
Speaker 1: you that thinks maybe he is innocent? There is?
Speaker 2: Yeah. I've had like a lot of people reach out
Speaker 2: to me just kind of like bashing him, like a
Speaker 2: lot of just like newspapers and stuff like that, kind
Speaker 2: of just like oh like trying to get like every
Speaker 2: little scoop out of me to make him out to
Speaker 2: be a bad guy, but in reality, like, this is
Speaker 2: someone's life that we're talking about, and it's like his
Speaker 2: reality as well, So it's there's a lot to take
Speaker 2: into like consideration there, like why would you want someone
Speaker 2: to go through all that and do all that and
Speaker 2: to think that they would, you know, be capable of
Speaker 2: something like that. Like it just blows my mind how
Speaker 2: people are thinking about.
Speaker 1: This case in retrospects. What did he seem?
Speaker 2: Like? I remember walking in Actually he was pretty noticeable,
Speaker 2: believe it or not. But I walked in, saw him,
Speaker 2: and he just didn't say anything. For weeks, he just
Speaker 2: like stood there fiddling with his cup, and you this
Speaker 2: class was like an hour and a half long, sometimes
Speaker 2: up to two hours, Like it just depended. It was
Speaker 2: a very long class for him to just be standing
Speaker 2: up in the front of everyone. So when I was
Speaker 2: bored in the class, I would honestly just watch him
Speaker 2: because I had nothing to do. I already like looked
Speaker 2: at the notes and stuff, and so I would just like,
Speaker 2: there's nothing else to watch.
Speaker 1: And did that seem weird to have somebody just standing
Speaker 1: there for an hour and a half? Is that normal
Speaker 1: or is that odd? Behavior?
Speaker 2: With my other tas are definitely like on their laptop,
Speaker 2: and sometimes you would see him like go on here
Speaker 2: and there, but never for like more than like ten minutes,
Speaker 2: I would say, Or he would just like sit down
Speaker 2: in front of the class, or sometimes he wouldn't even
Speaker 2: be there, just be the professor. But compared to our
Speaker 2: other ta, he would be on his laptop, our teacher
Speaker 2: would be asking him to go do ta things like hey,
Speaker 2: can you pull up this lecture and stuff like that.
Speaker 2: I just never saw any of that from Ryan.
Speaker 1: Was he just also observing the class or did it
Speaker 1: seem like he was just staring off into.
Speaker 2: Space, off to space? Honestly? He would look up a
Speaker 2: couple of times, honestly, just like in his own little world.
Speaker 1: And did he seem like he was interested in the
Speaker 1: content or like you know how somebody you could see
Speaker 1: them and they look like they already know the information,
Speaker 1: so they're kind of just nodding along. Or was he
Speaker 1: kind of checked out?
Speaker 2: I would say both most of the time, when like
Speaker 2: he just he looked like me in that situation, like
Speaker 2: he was just like sometimes nodding here and there. I
Speaker 2: remember the professor trying to get his attention a couple
Speaker 2: of times and take him a couple of times, like
Speaker 2: snap into it.
Speaker 1: So here you are, you're in your criminology class. You're
Speaker 1: just observing three hundred ish people around you, and yeah,
Speaker 1: you just sort of are looking at the people in
Speaker 1: front of you. So in this case, it's the professor
Speaker 1: into additional teacher assistants. He's one of them. And did
Speaker 1: Brian Coburger and the other teacher assistant have any kind
Speaker 1: of a rapport?
Speaker 3: No?
Speaker 2: I think I saw them together in the class maybe
Speaker 2: one time, but other than that they were either switching
Speaker 2: off or there was no tea at all.
Speaker 3: Let's stop here for a break. We'll lead back in
Speaker 3: a moment.
Speaker 1: How would you describe him physically?
Speaker 2: He had a very clean look, very always shaven, very
Speaker 2: like hair done. He was always wearing like sweaters and
Speaker 2: jeans and looked nice. He was tall, white, dark hair,
Speaker 2: very skinny, slim, slim fit. He just always seemed like
Speaker 2: he was just there, not interacting or anything, just there.
Speaker 1: He had said that he seemed noticeable at first, was noticeable,
Speaker 1: the fact that he was so quiet.
Speaker 2: I guess so I would. I just wasn't what I
Speaker 2: was expecting when I first walked in the class. It
Speaker 2: was a lot to take in all the ones. I
Speaker 2: feel like we're getting a lot of information, and half
Speaker 2: the time my brain would just check out and just
Speaker 2: automatic eyes to him because he was the only other
Speaker 2: person down there. Did he have any friends, Uh, not
Speaker 2: that I saw. I mean, he was a very closed
Speaker 2: off ta someta's like to share about their life and
Speaker 2: give us a whole PowerPoint stuff and he never saw
Speaker 2: that one from him, So I don't know much about
Speaker 2: his personal life, but very kept to himself anytime I
Speaker 2: saw him on campus or in class or office hours.
Speaker 1: Did you have office hours with him?
Speaker 2: Yes, it would be with a couple kids. I only
Speaker 2: went twice. Both times were unhelpful, so I left. It's
Speaker 2: basically just like a time to ask him questions, to
Speaker 2: ask him about work, to do work with him, to
Speaker 2: need help on case studies, just anything like that, or
Speaker 2: even studying for like a next exam or quiz. Those
Speaker 2: are what office I was just supposed to be for.
Speaker 2: But most of the time there's just a bunch of
Speaker 2: kids kind of either doing group work together or just
Speaker 2: a quiet voice like study or wherever, and he would
Speaker 2: just be like on his lap, up close off like
Speaker 2: to himself.
Speaker 1: Did he ever ask any personal questions to you.
Speaker 2: No. No. I remember like trying to have a conversation
Speaker 2: one time because I need help with one of the assignments,
Speaker 2: and it was just kind of like, well, did you
Speaker 2: review the work? And I'm like, yes, I reviewed the
Speaker 2: work and so kind of gave my attitude back, but
Speaker 2: it was yeah, I don't know. After that time, I
Speaker 2: think I just didn't end up going.
Speaker 1: So everybody wants to know the same thing, right. We
Speaker 1: all like to believe in our hearts that if we
Speaker 1: come across somebody who's violent or dangerous, that we'd get
Speaker 1: a spidy sense or people always talk about I had
Speaker 1: a sixth sense, So you know, kind of part of
Speaker 1: even why it's so important to talk about this staff
Speaker 1: is I'm so curious, did you have that feeling that
Speaker 1: he was capable or off people have called him in
Speaker 1: the press very creepy in retrospect, or did he just
Speaker 1: seem like an ordinary guy?
Speaker 2: To be honest, I never got any of those feelings. However,
Speaker 2: I do remember this one incident that happened when I
Speaker 2: went into class. And usually you sit next to like
Speaker 2: a different person every day. It's not like everyone's like, buddy, buddies,
Speaker 2: So sit down, and the dude next to me, like
Speaker 2: straight off the bat when Brian came in, was like, oh,
Speaker 2: doesn't he give you like weird vibes? And I was like,
Speaker 2: and that's like one comment that since now I'm like,
Speaker 2: oh my gosh, Like how did I get He said
Speaker 2: something about his eyes. It was like in the eyes
Speaker 2: and now that I'm looking at him, and I'm like, yeah,
Speaker 2: I guess that makes sense, but me personally.
Speaker 1: No, So like in the days leading up, so I
Speaker 1: would imagine it's just business as usual. Right Thanksgiving break
Speaker 1: is on the horizon. You guys are taking finals probably
Speaker 1: or at least preparing for finals. Did anything seem out
Speaker 1: of the ordinary in the days leading up to the
Speaker 1: murders in terms of your experience with Brian.
Speaker 2: I would say that before we even like heard, so
Speaker 2: there was like a time period of right when finals
Speaker 2: were happening and like right after and it was straight
Speaker 2: a's a lot of really good grades and good comments
Speaker 2: from Brian himself. But before that it was not so good,
Speaker 2: very harsh grading, very not great. But and I talked
Speaker 2: to so many of my classmates and then like, did
Speaker 2: you notice your grades going up? And he would go
Speaker 2: in detail on my work and like all my other
Speaker 2: classmates work about how good it was. But you can
Speaker 2: tell like the difference from before that it was like no,
Speaker 2: like UNI fixes your grand you know, all that little
Speaker 2: nitty picky stuff.
Speaker 3: Cassie's experience with Coburger is not unique. It's been reported
Speaker 3: that former students have said he quote seemed preoccupied after
Speaker 3: the slayings and became an easier grater. But Coburger's change
Speaker 3: in affect wasn't the only notable thing. Here's more from Cassie.
Speaker 2: We also got a lot of complaints. I personally didn't
Speaker 2: see a problem in it, but a lot of the
Speaker 2: female writers and all that, because we do a lot
Speaker 2: of case studies and we'd have to make reports on them.
Speaker 2: A lot of people just thought he was very sexist
Speaker 2: as a TA, especially in like one on ones apparently
Speaker 2: like he showed just a lot of anger towards them
Speaker 2: in a way which I'd never experienced that, So I
Speaker 2: don't know, that's just what I got from my other classmates.
Speaker 1: I had heard reports of that as well. Like you know,
Speaker 1: there was a lot written about the fact that he
Speaker 1: did these posts to prisoners behind bars or people to
Speaker 1: who have committed crimes, like he almost did this poll
Speaker 1: to see what their personality traits were like, or you know,
Speaker 1: when they knew it was time to kill or sort
Speaker 1: of it seemed as though he was profiling murderers right
Speaker 1: to sort of better understand how their brain worked. And
Speaker 1: then the day this hideous day happens. Tell me about
Speaker 1: that day.
Speaker 2: Honestly, it was just another day because when we all
Speaker 2: heard about it, you were very we were very heartbroken,
Speaker 2: but we didn't hear from the school or anything. We
Speaker 2: just heard from like news. We didn't even know, like
Speaker 2: it didn't even click that it was in Idaho at
Speaker 2: u of I, and so like maybe the next week,
Speaker 2: like is when it like really hit me in my
Speaker 2: roommate and anyone close to me really like it just
Speaker 2: didn't register. And then when everything started catching up over
Speaker 2: breaking stuff is when it really just hit me in
Speaker 2: all like, oh my gosh, like this is pretty close.
Speaker 2: And then when I really started to realize is when
Speaker 2: I would get calls from out of state family and
Speaker 2: they'd be like, you know, you got to get home,
Speaker 2: like it's almost break, like weren't you there early and
Speaker 2: all that stuff, and my mom and my dad, my siblings,
Speaker 2: just constant calls about, you know, get my ass home,
Speaker 2: because it's getting a little scary, especially when they hadn't
Speaker 2: like caught him and all that.
Speaker 1: During that time there was a national man hunt. It
Speaker 1: must be a very scary feeling to know that there
Speaker 1: is a killer at large, frankly targeting beautiful girls like
Speaker 1: yourself in the same exact age group.
Speaker 2: It was pretty scary because everyone at WSU was wondering,
Speaker 2: what are we supposed to do because you and I
Speaker 2: had already set a curfew and they took, you know, precautions,
Speaker 2: and they didn't they closed like class for a couple
Speaker 2: of days or something like that. You know, they took
Speaker 2: their precautions, but WSU was like, no, they send out
Speaker 2: an email. They were like, this has nothing to do
Speaker 2: with us. We you know, they were like, we send
Speaker 2: our love to the families. You know, they expressed that
Speaker 2: pretty well. But they were also like, this is our business.
Speaker 2: We will continue class. We will not have a man
Speaker 2: you know, curfew. And then to think that it was
Speaker 2: like under their own roof is like, oh, like, are
Speaker 2: you kidding? And for the people like myself and the
Speaker 2: couple other hundred kids who stayed when everyone else left
Speaker 2: when they found out there was a murder on the loose.
Speaker 2: That's terrifying. Like he was like probably on campus, you know,
Speaker 2: doing his thing until he left for his break, and
Speaker 2: the fact that he was in class and still replying
Speaker 2: to our campus notifications, and I would get like I
Speaker 2: remember looking at all the emails that he sent me
Speaker 2: after it all happened, and a couple of weeks later,
Speaker 2: they were just gone, and I was like, oh my god, what.
Speaker 1: Does that mean? They were gone, like they got moved.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so any canvas notifications I had from him any
Speaker 2: because I literally remember like looking through all of them
Speaker 2: and I was like just you know, kind of like
Speaker 2: observing all them and seeing if I noticed anything. And
Speaker 2: I had all of his little edits and stuff then
Speaker 2: and then I went back one day to look at them,
Speaker 2: and Camus had removed all them. It was just very
Speaker 2: in detail, good notes about my work after everything happened,
Speaker 2: very like it wasn't short and sweet.
Speaker 1: So this man potentially murdered four people and then he
Speaker 1: went back to class and then he still continued to
Speaker 1: grade papers and maybe did it in a lighter, happier way. Yes, Yeah,
Speaker 1: So like what do you make of that? Does that mean?
Speaker 2: I think he was definitely trying to If it was
Speaker 2: n'im could possibly like not be him. But I think
Speaker 2: if it was, he was trying to cover it up,
Speaker 2: you know, in a way obviously. And that's like the
Speaker 2: first thing you do after it all goes down. You
Speaker 2: kind of want to act like nothing happened, maybe even
Speaker 2: make yourself seem a little bit better, maybe more better
Speaker 2: guy then some of your classmates might describe you. You know,
Speaker 2: you don't want to hear about how you might be
Speaker 2: a sexist the when you just kill like three girls,
Speaker 2: like that's not you want to sere completely opposite of that.
Speaker 2: There were so many things that he did that just
Speaker 2: didn't make sense. If you were getting your PhD in
Speaker 2: criminology or criminal justice or whatever, why would you go
Speaker 2: the route of revisiting the place so many times and
Speaker 2: not checking your phone being that's one of the first
Speaker 2: things we learned in class, everything how you get caught,
Speaker 2: and so he already had this down. So it just
Speaker 2: it doesn't really make sense why he would do so
Speaker 2: many things to jeopardize people catching them.
Speaker 1: We were just reviewing this yesterday, so it sounds like
Speaker 1: he was pinged just to bring anybody up to speed.
Speaker 1: So his cell phone pinged about fifteen times in and
Speaker 1: around the area leading up to the murders and then after.
Speaker 1: But I can't agree with you more. It doesn't totally
Speaker 1: add up. That's so interesting to me that you really
Speaker 1: did study that.
Speaker 3: Let's stop here for another break. We'll be back in
Speaker 3: a moment.
Speaker 1: Tell me everything you can remember about the days after.
Speaker 2: The days after. Physically, it was his eyes for me,
Speaker 2: they were very sunken and very black. It was like
Speaker 2: he hadn't sleeped in like days, maybe weeks. That's just
Speaker 2: what the appearance look like. But I was never one
Speaker 2: to judge. I was like, okay, long night, we have
Speaker 2: finals coming up. It's okay, but yeah, that's one of
Speaker 2: the main things. And I guess a lot of unshavenness
Speaker 2: and a little messier and then right after you could
Speaker 2: tell the difference.
Speaker 1: Can you describe what it was like to find out
Speaker 1: that Brian Coberger, your teacher's assistant, had been arrested and
Speaker 1: accused of the murders.
Speaker 2: Yeah. So I was in my dorm in the Olympia
Speaker 2: dorm at WSU with my roommate, and I remember we
Speaker 2: were looking at a case because it came out. She's like, oh,
Speaker 2: I'm going to look at it. I was like, okay, yeah,
Speaker 2: just tell me. I was cleaning or whatever, and she
Speaker 2: was like, holy shit, Cassie, like it says criminology. And
Speaker 2: I was like, no way, and she was like, you
Speaker 2: have to go on campus right now. I was like,
Speaker 2: why are you freaking out? Like she wouldn't really tell
Speaker 2: me at first, and then she was like, who's your TA?
Speaker 2: So I told her and then she was like there's
Speaker 2: no way you're not to believe this, and so we
Speaker 2: both started freaking out. And yeah, that was the moment.
Speaker 2: And then she was kind of like, I need to
Speaker 2: get the hell out of here. So she dipped a
Speaker 2: little early for Thanksgiving break and yeah, I still to
Speaker 2: save the extra week. So I was just kind of
Speaker 2: like sitting with that information, and I remember not wanting
Speaker 2: to go out because even before I remember my roommate
Speaker 2: not letting me go out, like anytime I'd be like hey,
Speaker 2: like like there's a party going out, No, you're staying.
Speaker 2: You know, there's a murderer out there, very hard lecture
Speaker 2: about not going out and none of that.
Speaker 1: But it was just crazy when he went to class.
Speaker 1: Was he participating in any of the conversations about the murders.
Speaker 2: No, but we did discuss it in class. We did
Speaker 2: have remember Phil was from the school of the class,
Speaker 2: but a lot of notifications I got from campus, you know,
Speaker 2: like discussing the murderers, like kind of just like, hey,
Speaker 2: like everyone needs to stay focused, but this is a
Speaker 2: very troubled time, you know whatever, just giving a reminder
Speaker 2: to all the classmates, like stay focused. But we did
Speaker 2: talk about the case, and we even like kind of
Speaker 2: went in details of everything that went down. I remember
Speaker 2: a lot of people asking questions about it, so like
Speaker 2: raising their hands and stuff, and there was a lot
Speaker 2: so going around the room and our professor was just
Speaker 2: there answering the questions. And I don't remember seeing Brian
Speaker 2: in class when we did talk about it. I remember
Speaker 2: hearing that he was, but I didn't really go to class.
Speaker 2: After everything happened, it kind of took me on a
Speaker 2: kind of hit me a little bit where I was like,
Speaker 2: this is getting a little too real. So I kind
Speaker 2: of stepped back from criminology and all that.
Speaker 1: You changed your major, huh, so, like criminology is not
Speaker 1: your thing anymore.
Speaker 2: I will always have a special place in my heart
Speaker 2: for chriminology, but I don't think it's my time or
Speaker 2: you know, when everything happened, it just got so real
Speaker 2: and I was like, this might not be for me
Speaker 2: because I don't know. I was just thinking too psychic
Speaker 2: psychologically into it, and so I changed my major to
Speaker 2: my minor, which was psychology, hoping that leads to a
Speaker 2: better future with that.
Speaker 1: It's very traumatic and I'm super sorry that you had
Speaker 1: to even experience anything so close to something so disgusting.
Speaker 1: Did you have any knowledge or did you know any
Speaker 1: of the victims?
Speaker 2: No, I did not know a lot of people from
Speaker 2: u of I I knew a couple of people who
Speaker 2: had friends who you know, like a friend of a friend,
Speaker 2: and so even then it affected them in such a
Speaker 2: way you know, I could only imagine. And we did
Speaker 2: have a couple like memorial stuff like a candle it
Speaker 2: thing and a little other one to show work of
Speaker 2: bys and place like flowers and pictures of them and
Speaker 2: stuff like at the u OFI statue the plaque that
Speaker 2: they have, So.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I've seen that. Yeah, it's pretty moving. Like even
Speaker 1: as I talk to you, I feel for your mom
Speaker 1: and dad because I would want you out of there.
Speaker 1: It was it seemed means dangerous. You know, there's a
Speaker 1: part of us that all think, oh my god, it
Speaker 1: could be you, right, like he could have been staring
Speaker 1: at you as a teacher's assistant and targeted you. What
Speaker 1: do you make of it? So now, like over a
Speaker 1: year now behind you, what is your take on it?
Speaker 1: Is it possible? Like it is it track for you?
Speaker 1: Is it impossible that he could have pulled this off?
Speaker 2: There is a very very clear like possibility that he
Speaker 2: could have done this. And when you bring up alibi,
Speaker 2: that's very like it just almost makes sense to cover
Speaker 2: up like the missing pieces, Like if only there was
Speaker 2: an alibi, it would all make sense. But there isn't,
Speaker 2: at least from like what we all know. So it's
Speaker 2: all still so confusing to say, like if you did
Speaker 2: it or if you didn't. But there are just so
Speaker 2: many things that he did after like the cell phone
Speaker 2: paying and all that that just wouldn't make sense if
Speaker 2: he didn't do it. So I don't know. I'm kinda
Speaker 2: I'm leaning towards did it, but I also hold a
Speaker 2: lot of sympathy still, I'm a very empathetic person, so
Speaker 2: not to say, like what he did wasn't fucked up,
Speaker 2: but if he didn't do it, like I still like
Speaker 2: I'm still holding that, you know. And there was just
Speaker 2: so much that went into it. It was all just
Speaker 2: so much. I hope like one day it just all
Speaker 2: gets figured out and can finally close the case.
Speaker 1: And the school. Now, Like if everything sort of settles down,
Speaker 1: do people still talk about it? Is it not a
Speaker 1: big topic of conversation anymore.
Speaker 2: Yeah, when this like hit, it was like huge, biggest
Speaker 2: thing that happened. But last year at WQ was a
Speaker 2: very crazy year. It was a very sad year for Pulman,
Speaker 2: and then this kind of hit and everyone it was
Speaker 2: like a whole Pullman's name was changed to this is
Speaker 2: where it happened, and so it was just traumatizing for
Speaker 2: the entire school and even like myself and a lot
Speaker 2: of people I knew, Like I even met people at
Speaker 2: the Vancouver campus because I'm at the Vancouver campus now
Speaker 2: who moved because of the situation. And I talked to
Speaker 2: like so many people at my campus now who just
Speaker 2: were like in my class sitting there like in front
Speaker 2: of me now who I never met, like explaining to
Speaker 2: me how hard it was for them, so where they
Speaker 2: had to move because they couldn't like even be in
Speaker 2: the same tiny little town anymore, Like it didn't feel
Speaker 2: the same, which is just so sad to hear about.
Speaker 2: And yeah, it's just very sad year for maybe a supplement.
Speaker 1: One last thing. I just got like covered in chills.
Speaker 1: You bring up such a big point that I think
Speaker 1: we should probably dive deeper in. He was only there
Speaker 1: for a year, and you know, the victims have this,
Speaker 1: you know, kind of iconically fun looking life. Is it
Speaker 1: possible that he was just this outsider kind of wishing
Speaker 1: to have it, or became obsessed with one of them
Speaker 1: and just lost his mind one night, or was just
Speaker 1: just a perfect storm that was brewing and they were
Speaker 1: just the unfortunate targets, And it could have been anyone.
Speaker 1: It's so hard to know.
Speaker 2: They both could be like such possible answers, crazy to
Speaker 2: think about. Yeah, the party life at both schools were
Speaker 2: both pretty big. If you weren't in the party life,
Speaker 2: it was I can definitely seem more of an outsider
Speaker 2: like standpoint. But then again, like everyone was so accepting.
Speaker 2: If you would just walk up to any house, you'd
Speaker 2: be in a party, Like no one would like kick
Speaker 2: you out or anyth unless you're being weird, which could
Speaker 2: be the case. But you know, very accepting schools, both
Speaker 2: of them, very kind hearts. Everyone had a smile on
Speaker 2: their face, and even when like tough times like this,
Speaker 2: even we still like would have smiles on our faces.
Speaker 2: We'd take a break from schools and like as a community,
Speaker 2: not even like the school policy, like we would all
Speaker 2: come together and be like we're we're gonna go to
Speaker 2: a memorial instead, or we're going to hold this event
Speaker 2: for them. So yeah, it was a very good community
Speaker 2: to have while everything else was kind of fallen down
Speaker 2: around us.
Speaker 1: Just in closing, is there anything that we don't have
Speaker 1: right that, just based on your experience just in general,
Speaker 1: that people just have wrong.
Speaker 2: Before the situation happened, they kind of make him seem
Speaker 2: to be like this creep who didn't have anything for
Speaker 2: him going. But he was like almost done with his life.
Speaker 2: He was at his goal. He had so much of
Speaker 2: a future ahead of him, and to say that he
Speaker 2: didn't it is just straight out lies. It's not that
Speaker 2: he was like a weird outsider dude and didn't have
Speaker 2: anything going for him. He was there and oh gosh,
Speaker 2: I can't even imagine. That's all we wish for to
Speaker 2: get to that goal where he was. He just threw
Speaker 2: it all away, which is so sad, but either way,
Speaker 2: it's a very unfortunate trail of events that happened.
Speaker 3: More on that next time. For more information on the
Speaker 3: case and relevant photos, follow us on Instagram at kat
Speaker 3: Underscore Studios. The Idaho Masker is produced by Stephanie Leideger,
Speaker 3: Gabriel Castillo, and me Courtney Armstrong. Editing and sound design
Speaker 3: by Jeff Toois, Music by Jared Aston. The Idaho Masker
Speaker 3: is a production of Kat's Studios and iHeartRadio. For more
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