WEBVTT - In Class with Kohberger 0:00:04.080 --> 0:00:06.680 We all like to believe in our hearts that if 0:00:06.720 --> 0:00:10.240 we come across somebody who's violent or dangerous, that we'd 0:00:10.240 --> 0:00:13.000 get a spidy sense. Did you have that feeling that 0:00:13.080 --> 0:00:16.720 he was capable or off? 0:00:17.280 --> 0:00:21.520 To be honest, I never got any of those feelings. However, 0:00:21.640 --> 0:00:24.480 I do remember this one incident that happened. 0:00:31.000 --> 0:00:34.840 This is the Idaho Massacre, a production of KAT Studios 0:00:34.960 --> 0:00:41.720 and iHeartRadio, Season two, Episode three, In Class with Coburger, 0:00:43.760 --> 0:00:47.400 I'm Courtney Armstrong, a producer at KATI Studios, with Stephanie 0:00:47.479 --> 0:00:54.080 Leidecker and Gabe Castillo. On November thirteenth, twenty twenty two, 0:00:54.520 --> 0:00:56.920 the murders of four young co eds at the University 0:00:56.920 --> 0:01:01.120 of Idaho left senseless tragedy in its wake, from the 0:01:01.160 --> 0:01:05.000 lives loss, to devastated family members and friends, to terrified 0:01:05.040 --> 0:01:10.840 students left behind wondering what's next. But beyond that is 0:01:10.840 --> 0:01:17.000 what transpired and accused murderer Brian Coeberger's orbit. We don't 0:01:17.040 --> 0:01:20.720 know of Coberger's guilt or innocence. He is presumed innocent 0:01:20.840 --> 0:01:24.240 unless otherwise determined in a court of law. What we 0:01:24.400 --> 0:01:27.399 do know is that the accused was a criminology PhD 0:01:27.560 --> 0:01:34.440 student and teacher's assistant at Washington State University, Pullman. We 0:01:34.560 --> 0:01:37.520 also know that after the murders, up until he left 0:01:37.600 --> 0:01:43.319 campus in mid December, Coberger attended classes in an effort 0:01:43.319 --> 0:01:46.400 to gain a greater understanding of what happened during that time. 0:01:46.600 --> 0:01:52.720 Stephanie Leidecker speaks with a former criminology student in Coburger's class, Cassie. 0:01:52.800 --> 0:01:56.200 Cassie has never spoken out before, and we'rewithholding her last 0:01:56.280 --> 0:02:00.720 name to protect her privacy. Here's Stephanie. 0:02:04.080 --> 0:02:06.880 There's been a lot of press about this case out there, 0:02:07.040 --> 0:02:10.200 so really our goal is always like less about the 0:02:10.200 --> 0:02:13.800 massacre itself and more about the human experience. Right, you 0:02:13.880 --> 0:02:16.800 have such a unique perspective on that. So take me 0:02:16.880 --> 0:02:19.920 back to day one, how you got to that particular 0:02:20.000 --> 0:02:24.280 school and what you're studying and kind of even the 0:02:24.320 --> 0:02:27.519 first day of class. Are you a criminology major? 0:02:27.960 --> 0:02:28.679 Not anymore? 0:02:29.000 --> 0:02:29.120 Now? 0:02:30.000 --> 0:02:31.119 That makes sense. 0:02:33.040 --> 0:02:36.839 Is that the event sometimes paths shift, right, So your 0:02:36.880 --> 0:02:41.080 destiny has been obviously wildly affected by this particular crime, 0:02:41.200 --> 0:02:44.080 so for obvious reasons. So yeah, just take me back 0:02:44.200 --> 0:02:47.160 to your experience at school and kind of how you 0:02:47.200 --> 0:02:48.239 made it to that class. 0:02:49.000 --> 0:02:52.600 All right, Well, I thought about criminology for a while 0:02:52.919 --> 0:02:55.560 because it's just like it's so interesting to get into 0:02:55.639 --> 0:02:59.240 you get to learn about literally the criminal behavior of 0:02:59.240 --> 0:03:01.840 these criminals mind and like what works. And so I 0:03:01.880 --> 0:03:05.440 was also considering psychology at the time, which is now 0:03:05.639 --> 0:03:08.160 my major. I had that as a minor. But yeah, 0:03:08.200 --> 0:03:10.640 so the second WAG I remember going, and he did 0:03:10.800 --> 0:03:14.560 introduce Brian and his other TA. I forgot his name, 0:03:14.680 --> 0:03:16.800 and then just kind of went into the details of 0:03:16.840 --> 0:03:18.959 the class. And this class was pretty big. I would 0:03:19.040 --> 0:03:23.120 say like three hundred students. It was a lecture hall, 0:03:23.400 --> 0:03:26.359 so very very big class. 0:03:26.440 --> 0:03:30.200 Just for clarity, Brian Coberger, the accused, he was the 0:03:30.240 --> 0:03:33.160 teacher's assistant, right, we always call it a TA, but 0:03:33.360 --> 0:03:35.320 that's short for teacher's assistant, right. 0:03:35.720 --> 0:03:38.680 Yeah, so he was the teacher's assistant, their little helper 0:03:38.720 --> 0:03:42.480 while they're still in school, basically just to get the knowledge. 0:03:42.800 --> 0:03:45.400 So to be a teacher's assistant, it's kind of like 0:03:45.640 --> 0:03:49.960 a secondary teacher obviously, right, they're a current student. In 0:03:50.040 --> 0:03:54.240 Brian's case, he was getting his PhD and was also 0:03:54.320 --> 0:03:58.240 working as a teacher's assistant in this particular criminology class, 0:03:59.120 --> 0:04:03.240 which makes sense. They with grading and do they participate 0:04:03.360 --> 0:04:04.120 in class. 0:04:04.480 --> 0:04:07.800 They do. Usually it's when a teacher notices a kid 0:04:07.920 --> 0:04:10.960 doing up in a booth, so kind of like just 0:04:11.040 --> 0:04:14.680 doing all their work, just really like teaching others. That's 0:04:14.720 --> 0:04:16.720 just kind of like how they pick out the tas 0:04:16.960 --> 0:04:18.719 just who stands out to them. 0:04:18.839 --> 0:04:23.520 So, so Brian was probably a pretty exemplary student in 0:04:23.640 --> 0:04:26.480 order to even have that kind of a prestigious place. 0:04:27.160 --> 0:04:30.000 Definitely, definitely, yeah, I think so he definitely had had 0:04:30.040 --> 0:04:33.440 some knowledge to get in there, and our professor was 0:04:33.480 --> 0:04:36.520 a very tough dude, so he it had to take 0:04:36.560 --> 0:04:37.719 a lot for him to see something. 0:04:40.080 --> 0:04:43.560 In a statement, Washington University's vice president of Marketing and 0:04:43.600 --> 0:04:48.600 Communication says that quote, mister Cobocker receives an appointment as 0:04:48.600 --> 0:04:52.240 a teaching assistant at Washington State University during the fall 0:04:52.360 --> 0:04:55.760 twenty twenty two semester. It is typical for students to 0:04:55.839 --> 0:04:59.120 receive a teaching assistantship or similar appointment as part of 0:04:59.120 --> 0:05:04.920 their PhD pro Wheeler explained here again, Cassie and Stephanie, 0:05:09.400 --> 0:05:09.719 what was. 0:05:09.720 --> 0:05:10.440 The class about? 0:05:11.080 --> 0:05:13.840 We covered literally how to get away with murder? Like 0:05:14.240 --> 0:05:19.000 we covered pretty good basis because our professor at the time, 0:05:19.080 --> 0:05:22.880 he was a very like knowledgeable man like he worked 0:05:22.920 --> 0:05:25.400 with judges and he was a lawyer for years and 0:05:25.440 --> 0:05:28.159 he worked with a lot of authority. So he wanted 0:05:28.200 --> 0:05:31.680 to teach it how he learned, which was case studies, 0:05:31.720 --> 0:05:35.839 like actually living it. So we went into a lot 0:05:35.880 --> 0:05:41.880 of detail about criminal behavior, the behavior why criminals do 0:05:41.920 --> 0:05:45.120 the thing. But this was more about cases. We would 0:05:45.120 --> 0:05:47.600 look over like a lot of cases and things like that, 0:05:47.839 --> 0:05:50.080 and we would go over the law, so a lot 0:05:50.080 --> 0:05:52.680 of just criminal justice things, a lot of lawyer and 0:05:52.800 --> 0:05:53.719 judge work. 0:05:54.080 --> 0:05:55.880 Is there a part of you because I'm still on 0:05:55.920 --> 0:05:58.839 the fence of I really want to believe that Ryan 0:05:58.880 --> 0:06:02.240 Colberger is innocent. He claims his innocence. I want to 0:06:02.279 --> 0:06:04.679 believe that because I like to believe that a human 0:06:04.720 --> 0:06:06.960 being couldn't pull that off. But again, I don't know 0:06:07.040 --> 0:06:09.080 him the way you do. Is there a part of 0:06:09.120 --> 0:06:12.920 you that thinks maybe he is innocent? There is? 0:06:13.240 --> 0:06:15.719 Yeah. I've had like a lot of people reach out 0:06:15.760 --> 0:06:18.839 to me just kind of like bashing him, like a 0:06:18.920 --> 0:06:22.240 lot of just like newspapers and stuff like that, kind 0:06:22.240 --> 0:06:24.040 of just like oh like trying to get like every 0:06:24.080 --> 0:06:26.000 little scoop out of me to make him out to 0:06:26.040 --> 0:06:28.760 be a bad guy, but in reality, like, this is 0:06:28.800 --> 0:06:31.600 someone's life that we're talking about, and it's like his 0:06:31.720 --> 0:06:35.120 reality as well, So it's there's a lot to take 0:06:35.160 --> 0:06:38.679 into like consideration there, like why would you want someone 0:06:39.200 --> 0:06:41.200 to go through all that and do all that and 0:06:41.279 --> 0:06:43.919 to think that they would, you know, be capable of 0:06:43.960 --> 0:06:46.880 something like that. Like it just blows my mind how 0:06:47.320 --> 0:06:48.640 people are thinking about. 0:06:48.360 --> 0:06:52.039 This case in retrospects. What did he seem? 0:06:52.200 --> 0:06:56.480 Like? I remember walking in Actually he was pretty noticeable, 0:06:56.600 --> 0:06:59.200 believe it or not. But I walked in, saw him, 0:06:59.480 --> 0:07:02.480 and he just didn't say anything. For weeks, he just 0:07:02.520 --> 0:07:05.080 like stood there fiddling with his cup, and you this 0:07:05.720 --> 0:07:08.120 class was like an hour and a half long, sometimes 0:07:08.200 --> 0:07:10.640 up to two hours, Like it just depended. It was 0:07:10.680 --> 0:07:13.480 a very long class for him to just be standing 0:07:13.520 --> 0:07:15.720 up in the front of everyone. So when I was 0:07:15.720 --> 0:07:17.960 bored in the class, I would honestly just watch him 0:07:18.240 --> 0:07:21.800 because I had nothing to do. I already like looked 0:07:21.800 --> 0:07:24.040 at the notes and stuff, and so I would just like, 0:07:24.960 --> 0:07:26.280 there's nothing else to watch. 0:07:26.520 --> 0:07:29.280 And did that seem weird to have somebody just standing 0:07:29.280 --> 0:07:32.000 there for an hour and a half? Is that normal 0:07:32.320 --> 0:07:34.120 or is that odd? Behavior? 0:07:35.120 --> 0:07:37.560 With my other tas are definitely like on their laptop, 0:07:37.560 --> 0:07:39.400 and sometimes you would see him like go on here 0:07:39.440 --> 0:07:41.880 and there, but never for like more than like ten minutes, 0:07:41.920 --> 0:07:44.160 I would say, Or he would just like sit down 0:07:44.480 --> 0:07:46.400 in front of the class, or sometimes he wouldn't even 0:07:46.400 --> 0:07:49.400 be there, just be the professor. But compared to our 0:07:49.440 --> 0:07:52.160 other ta, he would be on his laptop, our teacher 0:07:52.200 --> 0:07:56.160 would be asking him to go do ta things like hey, 0:07:56.160 --> 0:07:58.080 can you pull up this lecture and stuff like that. 0:07:58.600 --> 0:08:00.360 I just never saw any of that from Ryan. 0:08:01.040 --> 0:08:03.840 Was he just also observing the class or did it 0:08:03.880 --> 0:08:06.440 seem like he was just staring off into. 0:08:06.240 --> 0:08:10.120 Space, off to space? Honestly? He would look up a 0:08:10.160 --> 0:08:12.440 couple of times, honestly, just like in his own little world. 0:08:13.160 --> 0:08:15.840 And did he seem like he was interested in the 0:08:15.920 --> 0:08:18.480 content or like you know how somebody you could see 0:08:18.480 --> 0:08:21.320 them and they look like they already know the information, 0:08:21.600 --> 0:08:25.480 so they're kind of just nodding along. Or was he 0:08:25.600 --> 0:08:26.520 kind of checked out? 0:08:27.400 --> 0:08:32.000 I would say both most of the time, when like 0:08:32.559 --> 0:08:35.080 he just he looked like me in that situation, like 0:08:35.120 --> 0:08:38.120 he was just like sometimes nodding here and there. I 0:08:38.160 --> 0:08:40.760 remember the professor trying to get his attention a couple 0:08:40.720 --> 0:08:42.640 of times and take him a couple of times, like 0:08:43.080 --> 0:08:43.839 snap into it. 0:08:44.280 --> 0:08:47.600 So here you are, you're in your criminology class. You're 0:08:47.800 --> 0:08:52.880 just observing three hundred ish people around you, and yeah, 0:08:52.960 --> 0:08:54.480 you just sort of are looking at the people in 0:08:54.520 --> 0:08:56.559 front of you. So in this case, it's the professor 0:08:56.600 --> 0:09:01.320 into additional teacher assistants. He's one of them. And did 0:09:01.320 --> 0:09:05.400 Brian Coburger and the other teacher assistant have any kind 0:09:05.400 --> 0:09:06.040 of a rapport? 0:09:06.760 --> 0:09:06.960 No? 0:09:07.400 --> 0:09:10.679 I think I saw them together in the class maybe 0:09:10.720 --> 0:09:12.840 one time, but other than that they were either switching 0:09:12.840 --> 0:09:17.720 off or there was no tea at all. 0:09:17.840 --> 0:09:20.400 Let's stop here for a break. We'll lead back in 0:09:20.440 --> 0:09:20.839 a moment. 0:09:28.360 --> 0:09:30.040 How would you describe him physically? 0:09:30.720 --> 0:09:33.560 He had a very clean look, very always shaven, very 0:09:33.720 --> 0:09:38.160 like hair done. He was always wearing like sweaters and 0:09:38.240 --> 0:09:43.440 jeans and looked nice. He was tall, white, dark hair, 0:09:44.040 --> 0:09:48.280 very skinny, slim, slim fit. He just always seemed like 0:09:48.280 --> 0:09:52.240 he was just there, not interacting or anything, just there. 0:09:52.840 --> 0:09:57.559 He had said that he seemed noticeable at first, was noticeable, 0:09:57.600 --> 0:09:59.880 the fact that he was so quiet. 0:10:00.600 --> 0:10:03.000 I guess so I would. I just wasn't what I 0:10:03.040 --> 0:10:05.960 was expecting when I first walked in the class. It 0:10:06.000 --> 0:10:07.800 was a lot to take in all the ones. I 0:10:07.800 --> 0:10:10.160 feel like we're getting a lot of information, and half 0:10:10.400 --> 0:10:12.720 the time my brain would just check out and just 0:10:12.800 --> 0:10:15.360 automatic eyes to him because he was the only other 0:10:15.400 --> 0:10:19.400 person down there. Did he have any friends, Uh, not 0:10:19.520 --> 0:10:21.760 that I saw. I mean, he was a very closed 0:10:21.800 --> 0:10:24.200 off ta someta's like to share about their life and 0:10:24.240 --> 0:10:27.200 give us a whole PowerPoint stuff and he never saw 0:10:27.200 --> 0:10:29.960 that one from him, So I don't know much about 0:10:30.000 --> 0:10:33.560 his personal life, but very kept to himself anytime I 0:10:33.559 --> 0:10:37.000 saw him on campus or in class or office hours. 0:10:37.800 --> 0:10:39.559 Did you have office hours with him? 0:10:40.080 --> 0:10:43.120 Yes, it would be with a couple kids. I only 0:10:43.160 --> 0:10:48.120 went twice. Both times were unhelpful, so I left. It's 0:10:48.120 --> 0:10:50.880 basically just like a time to ask him questions, to 0:10:50.920 --> 0:10:54.440 ask him about work, to do work with him, to 0:10:54.960 --> 0:10:57.200 need help on case studies, just anything like that, or 0:10:57.200 --> 0:11:01.040 even studying for like a next exam or quiz. Those 0:11:01.040 --> 0:11:02.719 are what office I was just supposed to be for. 0:11:03.320 --> 0:11:05.040 But most of the time there's just a bunch of 0:11:05.120 --> 0:11:08.520 kids kind of either doing group work together or just 0:11:08.559 --> 0:11:11.240 a quiet voice like study or wherever, and he would 0:11:11.320 --> 0:11:13.960 just be like on his lap, up close off like 0:11:14.000 --> 0:11:14.559 to himself. 0:11:15.280 --> 0:11:17.679 Did he ever ask any personal questions to you. 0:11:18.679 --> 0:11:22.599 No. No. I remember like trying to have a conversation 0:11:22.720 --> 0:11:26.360 one time because I need help with one of the assignments, 0:11:26.400 --> 0:11:28.599 and it was just kind of like, well, did you 0:11:28.679 --> 0:11:31.480 review the work? And I'm like, yes, I reviewed the 0:11:31.520 --> 0:11:35.680 work and so kind of gave my attitude back, but 0:11:36.440 --> 0:11:39.840 it was yeah, I don't know. After that time, I 0:11:39.880 --> 0:11:41.600 think I just didn't end up going. 0:11:42.760 --> 0:11:44.800 So everybody wants to know the same thing, right. We 0:11:44.960 --> 0:11:47.440 all like to believe in our hearts that if we 0:11:47.559 --> 0:11:51.079 come across somebody who's violent or dangerous, that we'd get 0:11:51.080 --> 0:11:54.520 a spidy sense or people always talk about I had 0:11:54.559 --> 0:11:57.560 a sixth sense, So you know, kind of part of 0:11:57.640 --> 0:12:00.440 even why it's so important to talk about this staff 0:12:00.559 --> 0:12:03.520 is I'm so curious, did you have that feeling that 0:12:03.600 --> 0:12:08.440 he was capable or off people have called him in 0:12:08.520 --> 0:12:12.520 the press very creepy in retrospect, or did he just 0:12:12.520 --> 0:12:13.920 seem like an ordinary guy? 0:12:19.760 --> 0:12:23.760 To be honest, I never got any of those feelings. However, 0:12:23.880 --> 0:12:27.720 I do remember this one incident that happened when I 0:12:27.760 --> 0:12:30.240 went into class. And usually you sit next to like 0:12:30.240 --> 0:12:33.240 a different person every day. It's not like everyone's like, buddy, buddies, 0:12:33.480 --> 0:12:37.520 So sit down, and the dude next to me, like 0:12:37.520 --> 0:12:40.120 straight off the bat when Brian came in, was like, oh, 0:12:40.160 --> 0:12:42.120 doesn't he give you like weird vibes? And I was like, 0:12:44.360 --> 0:12:46.679 and that's like one comment that since now I'm like, 0:12:46.760 --> 0:12:51.000 oh my gosh, Like how did I get He said 0:12:51.000 --> 0:12:53.000 something about his eyes. It was like in the eyes 0:12:53.040 --> 0:12:55.240 and now that I'm looking at him, and I'm like, yeah, 0:12:55.240 --> 0:12:58.880 I guess that makes sense, but me personally. 0:12:58.600 --> 0:13:01.760 No, So like in the days leading up, so I 0:13:01.760 --> 0:13:05.679 would imagine it's just business as usual. Right Thanksgiving break 0:13:05.800 --> 0:13:09.040 is on the horizon. You guys are taking finals probably 0:13:09.120 --> 0:13:12.520 or at least preparing for finals. Did anything seem out 0:13:12.520 --> 0:13:15.599 of the ordinary in the days leading up to the 0:13:15.720 --> 0:13:18.600 murders in terms of your experience with Brian. 0:13:19.440 --> 0:13:23.960 I would say that before we even like heard, so 0:13:24.120 --> 0:13:27.479 there was like a time period of right when finals 0:13:27.520 --> 0:13:31.360 were happening and like right after and it was straight 0:13:31.400 --> 0:13:34.920 a's a lot of really good grades and good comments 0:13:34.960 --> 0:13:39.360 from Brian himself. But before that it was not so good, 0:13:39.480 --> 0:13:44.080 very harsh grading, very not great. But and I talked 0:13:44.120 --> 0:13:45.880 to so many of my classmates and then like, did 0:13:45.920 --> 0:13:48.120 you notice your grades going up? And he would go 0:13:48.160 --> 0:13:51.120 in detail on my work and like all my other 0:13:51.240 --> 0:13:54.640 classmates work about how good it was. But you can 0:13:54.640 --> 0:13:58.520 tell like the difference from before that it was like no, 0:13:58.679 --> 0:14:01.600 like UNI fixes your grand you know, all that little 0:14:01.760 --> 0:14:02.959 nitty picky stuff. 0:14:07.960 --> 0:14:12.040 Cassie's experience with Coburger is not unique. It's been reported 0:14:12.120 --> 0:14:16.079 that former students have said he quote seemed preoccupied after 0:14:16.120 --> 0:14:19.840 the slayings and became an easier grater. But Coburger's change 0:14:19.840 --> 0:14:23.600 in affect wasn't the only notable thing. Here's more from Cassie. 0:14:25.360 --> 0:14:29.200 We also got a lot of complaints. I personally didn't 0:14:29.200 --> 0:14:31.360 see a problem in it, but a lot of the 0:14:31.400 --> 0:14:34.480 female writers and all that, because we do a lot 0:14:34.520 --> 0:14:37.160 of case studies and we'd have to make reports on them. 0:14:37.640 --> 0:14:40.960 A lot of people just thought he was very sexist 0:14:41.880 --> 0:14:45.240 as a TA, especially in like one on ones apparently 0:14:45.320 --> 0:14:47.640 like he showed just a lot of anger towards them 0:14:47.680 --> 0:14:51.240 in a way which I'd never experienced that, So I 0:14:51.240 --> 0:14:54.200 don't know, that's just what I got from my other classmates. 0:14:54.480 --> 0:14:56.440 I had heard reports of that as well. Like you know, 0:14:56.480 --> 0:14:59.160 there was a lot written about the fact that he 0:14:59.240 --> 0:15:04.000 did these posts to prisoners behind bars or people to 0:15:04.040 --> 0:15:06.920 who have committed crimes, like he almost did this poll 0:15:07.120 --> 0:15:11.320 to see what their personality traits were like, or you know, 0:15:11.360 --> 0:15:15.080 when they knew it was time to kill or sort 0:15:15.120 --> 0:15:19.440 of it seemed as though he was profiling murderers right 0:15:19.560 --> 0:15:24.800 to sort of better understand how their brain worked. And 0:15:24.840 --> 0:15:28.440 then the day this hideous day happens. Tell me about 0:15:28.480 --> 0:15:29.000 that day. 0:15:29.600 --> 0:15:32.760 Honestly, it was just another day because when we all 0:15:32.800 --> 0:15:36.760 heard about it, you were very we were very heartbroken, 0:15:36.880 --> 0:15:39.280 but we didn't hear from the school or anything. We 0:15:39.360 --> 0:15:41.640 just heard from like news. We didn't even know, like 0:15:41.920 --> 0:15:44.880 it didn't even click that it was in Idaho at 0:15:45.000 --> 0:15:48.080 u of I, and so like maybe the next week, 0:15:48.680 --> 0:15:50.640 like is when it like really hit me in my 0:15:50.760 --> 0:15:53.080 roommate and anyone close to me really like it just 0:15:53.120 --> 0:15:57.400 didn't register. And then when everything started catching up over 0:15:57.520 --> 0:15:59.720 breaking stuff is when it really just hit me in 0:15:59.720 --> 0:16:02.000 all like, oh my gosh, like this is pretty close. 0:16:02.320 --> 0:16:04.760 And then when I really started to realize is when 0:16:04.800 --> 0:16:07.760 I would get calls from out of state family and 0:16:08.160 --> 0:16:10.880 they'd be like, you know, you got to get home, 0:16:11.120 --> 0:16:13.800 like it's almost break, like weren't you there early and 0:16:15.040 --> 0:16:18.760 all that stuff, and my mom and my dad, my siblings, 0:16:18.840 --> 0:16:22.440 just constant calls about, you know, get my ass home, 0:16:22.760 --> 0:16:25.880 because it's getting a little scary, especially when they hadn't 0:16:25.920 --> 0:16:27.080 like caught him and all that. 0:16:27.560 --> 0:16:31.160 During that time there was a national man hunt. It 0:16:31.280 --> 0:16:33.480 must be a very scary feeling to know that there 0:16:33.600 --> 0:16:37.680 is a killer at large, frankly targeting beautiful girls like 0:16:37.720 --> 0:16:39.880 yourself in the same exact age group. 0:16:40.640 --> 0:16:45.000 It was pretty scary because everyone at WSU was wondering, 0:16:45.720 --> 0:16:48.440 what are we supposed to do because you and I 0:16:48.680 --> 0:16:53.840 had already set a curfew and they took, you know, precautions, 0:16:53.880 --> 0:16:56.040 and they didn't they closed like class for a couple 0:16:56.040 --> 0:16:57.480 of days or something like that. You know, they took 0:16:57.520 --> 0:17:00.360 their precautions, but WSU was like, no, they send out 0:17:00.400 --> 0:17:02.160 an email. They were like, this has nothing to do 0:17:02.200 --> 0:17:06.800 with us. We you know, they were like, we send 0:17:06.800 --> 0:17:09.520 our love to the families. You know, they expressed that 0:17:09.560 --> 0:17:12.320 pretty well. But they were also like, this is our business. 0:17:12.320 --> 0:17:14.760 We will continue class. We will not have a man 0:17:15.080 --> 0:17:18.199 you know, curfew. And then to think that it was 0:17:18.240 --> 0:17:21.359 like under their own roof is like, oh, like, are 0:17:21.400 --> 0:17:26.080 you kidding? And for the people like myself and the 0:17:26.520 --> 0:17:29.399 couple other hundred kids who stayed when everyone else left 0:17:29.600 --> 0:17:31.639 when they found out there was a murder on the loose. 0:17:32.480 --> 0:17:36.199 That's terrifying. Like he was like probably on campus, you know, 0:17:36.320 --> 0:17:40.359 doing his thing until he left for his break, and 0:17:40.520 --> 0:17:44.520 the fact that he was in class and still replying 0:17:44.560 --> 0:17:48.080 to our campus notifications, and I would get like I 0:17:48.119 --> 0:17:51.359 remember looking at all the emails that he sent me 0:17:51.400 --> 0:17:54.560 after it all happened, and a couple of weeks later, 0:17:54.560 --> 0:17:57.800 they were just gone, and I was like, oh my god, what. 0:17:57.760 --> 0:18:00.520 Does that mean? They were gone, like they got moved. 0:18:01.720 --> 0:18:05.639 Yeah, so any canvas notifications I had from him any 0:18:06.359 --> 0:18:08.680 because I literally remember like looking through all of them 0:18:08.720 --> 0:18:10.639 and I was like just you know, kind of like 0:18:10.760 --> 0:18:14.560 observing all them and seeing if I noticed anything. And 0:18:14.640 --> 0:18:17.959 I had all of his little edits and stuff then 0:18:18.160 --> 0:18:20.040 and then I went back one day to look at them, 0:18:20.080 --> 0:18:24.320 and Camus had removed all them. It was just very 0:18:24.359 --> 0:18:29.240 in detail, good notes about my work after everything happened, 0:18:29.400 --> 0:18:31.479 very like it wasn't short and sweet. 0:18:35.400 --> 0:18:41.120 So this man potentially murdered four people and then he 0:18:41.160 --> 0:18:45.159 went back to class and then he still continued to 0:18:45.359 --> 0:18:54.800 grade papers and maybe did it in a lighter, happier way. Yes, Yeah, 0:18:55.200 --> 0:18:56.960 So like what do you make of that? Does that mean? 0:18:57.440 --> 0:19:01.199 I think he was definitely trying to If it was 0:19:01.240 --> 0:19:04.080 n'im could possibly like not be him. But I think 0:19:04.119 --> 0:19:06.920 if it was, he was trying to cover it up, 0:19:07.040 --> 0:19:09.159 you know, in a way obviously. And that's like the 0:19:09.200 --> 0:19:12.560 first thing you do after it all goes down. You 0:19:12.680 --> 0:19:15.720 kind of want to act like nothing happened, maybe even 0:19:15.800 --> 0:19:19.520 make yourself seem a little bit better, maybe more better 0:19:19.600 --> 0:19:22.760 guy then some of your classmates might describe you. You know, 0:19:22.800 --> 0:19:25.119 you don't want to hear about how you might be 0:19:25.160 --> 0:19:28.560 a sexist the when you just kill like three girls, 0:19:28.560 --> 0:19:31.719 like that's not you want to sere completely opposite of that. 0:19:32.320 --> 0:19:35.480 There were so many things that he did that just 0:19:35.520 --> 0:19:38.639 didn't make sense. If you were getting your PhD in 0:19:39.160 --> 0:19:43.359 criminology or criminal justice or whatever, why would you go 0:19:43.480 --> 0:19:46.960 the route of revisiting the place so many times and 0:19:47.000 --> 0:19:50.320 not checking your phone being that's one of the first 0:19:50.359 --> 0:19:54.120 things we learned in class, everything how you get caught, 0:19:54.400 --> 0:19:56.520 and so he already had this down. So it just 0:19:56.640 --> 0:19:59.720 it doesn't really make sense why he would do so 0:19:59.760 --> 0:20:04.040 many things to jeopardize people catching them. 0:20:09.080 --> 0:20:11.879 We were just reviewing this yesterday, so it sounds like 0:20:11.960 --> 0:20:15.240 he was pinged just to bring anybody up to speed. 0:20:15.320 --> 0:20:18.760 So his cell phone pinged about fifteen times in and 0:20:18.800 --> 0:20:22.600 around the area leading up to the murders and then after. 0:20:22.840 --> 0:20:25.679 But I can't agree with you more. It doesn't totally 0:20:25.720 --> 0:20:27.840 add up. That's so interesting to me that you really 0:20:27.840 --> 0:20:28.520 did study that. 0:20:32.760 --> 0:20:35.439 Let's stop here for another break. We'll be back in 0:20:35.480 --> 0:20:35.840 a moment. 0:20:42.680 --> 0:20:46.000 Tell me everything you can remember about the days after. 0:20:46.440 --> 0:20:50.439 The days after. Physically, it was his eyes for me, 0:20:50.800 --> 0:20:54.040 they were very sunken and very black. It was like 0:20:54.119 --> 0:20:57.159 he hadn't sleeped in like days, maybe weeks. That's just 0:20:57.160 --> 0:20:58.760 what the appearance look like. But I was never one 0:20:58.840 --> 0:21:00.879 to judge. I was like, okay, long night, we have 0:21:00.960 --> 0:21:04.879 finals coming up. It's okay, but yeah, that's one of 0:21:04.920 --> 0:21:07.840 the main things. And I guess a lot of unshavenness 0:21:07.880 --> 0:21:11.000 and a little messier and then right after you could 0:21:11.320 --> 0:21:12.360 tell the difference. 0:21:14.720 --> 0:21:17.320 Can you describe what it was like to find out 0:21:17.359 --> 0:21:21.840 that Brian Coberger, your teacher's assistant, had been arrested and 0:21:21.920 --> 0:21:23.520 accused of the murders. 0:21:24.280 --> 0:21:28.760 Yeah. So I was in my dorm in the Olympia 0:21:28.880 --> 0:21:35.080 dorm at WSU with my roommate, and I remember we 0:21:35.080 --> 0:21:36.960 were looking at a case because it came out. She's like, oh, 0:21:37.080 --> 0:21:38.720 I'm going to look at it. I was like, okay, yeah, 0:21:38.800 --> 0:21:41.879 just tell me. I was cleaning or whatever, and she 0:21:42.040 --> 0:21:45.760 was like, holy shit, Cassie, like it says criminology. And 0:21:45.800 --> 0:21:49.639 I was like, no way, and she was like, you 0:21:49.800 --> 0:21:51.520 have to go on campus right now. I was like, 0:21:51.560 --> 0:21:53.200 why are you freaking out? Like she wouldn't really tell 0:21:53.240 --> 0:21:56.440 me at first, and then she was like, who's your TA? 0:21:56.600 --> 0:21:58.359 So I told her and then she was like there's 0:21:58.560 --> 0:22:01.040 no way you're not to believe this, and so we 0:22:01.119 --> 0:22:04.879 both started freaking out. And yeah, that was the moment. 0:22:05.000 --> 0:22:06.600 And then she was kind of like, I need to 0:22:06.600 --> 0:22:08.760 get the hell out of here. So she dipped a 0:22:08.800 --> 0:22:12.879 little early for Thanksgiving break and yeah, I still to 0:22:12.880 --> 0:22:14.560 save the extra week. So I was just kind of 0:22:14.560 --> 0:22:17.440 like sitting with that information, and I remember not wanting 0:22:17.480 --> 0:22:22.040 to go out because even before I remember my roommate 0:22:22.480 --> 0:22:24.720 not letting me go out, like anytime I'd be like hey, 0:22:24.760 --> 0:22:27.240 like like there's a party going out, No, you're staying. 0:22:27.480 --> 0:22:30.800 You know, there's a murderer out there, very hard lecture 0:22:31.680 --> 0:22:33.879 about not going out and none of that. 0:22:34.359 --> 0:22:38.040