1 00:00:04,080 --> 00:00:06,680 Speaker 1: We all like to believe in our hearts that if 2 00:00:06,720 --> 00:00:10,240 Speaker 1: we come across somebody who's violent or dangerous, that we'd 3 00:00:10,240 --> 00:00:13,000 Speaker 1: get a spidy sense. Did you have that feeling that 4 00:00:13,080 --> 00:00:16,720 Speaker 1: he was capable or off? 5 00:00:17,280 --> 00:00:21,520 Speaker 2: To be honest, I never got any of those feelings. However, 6 00:00:21,640 --> 00:00:24,480 Speaker 2: I do remember this one incident that happened. 7 00:00:31,000 --> 00:00:34,840 Speaker 3: This is the Idaho Massacre, a production of KAT Studios 8 00:00:34,960 --> 00:00:41,720 Speaker 3: and iHeartRadio, Season two, Episode three, In Class with Coburger, 9 00:00:43,760 --> 00:00:47,400 Speaker 3: I'm Courtney Armstrong, a producer at KATI Studios, with Stephanie 10 00:00:47,479 --> 00:00:54,080 Speaker 3: Leidecker and Gabe Castillo. On November thirteenth, twenty twenty two, 11 00:00:54,520 --> 00:00:56,920 Speaker 3: the murders of four young co eds at the University 12 00:00:56,920 --> 00:01:01,120 Speaker 3: of Idaho left senseless tragedy in its wake, from the 13 00:01:01,160 --> 00:01:05,000 Speaker 3: lives loss, to devastated family members and friends, to terrified 14 00:01:05,040 --> 00:01:10,840 Speaker 3: students left behind wondering what's next. But beyond that is 15 00:01:10,840 --> 00:01:17,000 Speaker 3: what transpired and accused murderer Brian Coeberger's orbit. We don't 16 00:01:17,040 --> 00:01:20,720 Speaker 3: know of Coberger's guilt or innocence. He is presumed innocent 17 00:01:20,840 --> 00:01:24,240 Speaker 3: unless otherwise determined in a court of law. What we 18 00:01:24,400 --> 00:01:27,399 Speaker 3: do know is that the accused was a criminology PhD 19 00:01:27,560 --> 00:01:34,440 Speaker 3: student and teacher's assistant at Washington State University, Pullman. We 20 00:01:34,560 --> 00:01:37,520 Speaker 3: also know that after the murders, up until he left 21 00:01:37,600 --> 00:01:43,319 Speaker 3: campus in mid December, Coberger attended classes in an effort 22 00:01:43,319 --> 00:01:46,400 Speaker 3: to gain a greater understanding of what happened during that time. 23 00:01:46,600 --> 00:01:52,720 Speaker 3: Stephanie Leidecker speaks with a former criminology student in Coburger's class, Cassie. 24 00:01:52,800 --> 00:01:56,200 Speaker 3: Cassie has never spoken out before, and we'rewithholding her last 25 00:01:56,280 --> 00:02:00,720 Speaker 3: name to protect her privacy. Here's Stephanie. 26 00:02:04,080 --> 00:02:06,880 Speaker 1: There's been a lot of press about this case out there, 27 00:02:07,040 --> 00:02:10,200 Speaker 1: so really our goal is always like less about the 28 00:02:10,200 --> 00:02:13,800 Speaker 1: massacre itself and more about the human experience. Right, you 29 00:02:13,880 --> 00:02:16,800 Speaker 1: have such a unique perspective on that. So take me 30 00:02:16,880 --> 00:02:19,920 Speaker 1: back to day one, how you got to that particular 31 00:02:20,000 --> 00:02:24,280 Speaker 1: school and what you're studying and kind of even the 32 00:02:24,320 --> 00:02:27,519 Speaker 1: first day of class. Are you a criminology major? 33 00:02:27,960 --> 00:02:28,679 Speaker 2: Not anymore? 34 00:02:29,000 --> 00:02:29,120 Speaker 1: Now? 35 00:02:30,000 --> 00:02:31,119 Speaker 2: That makes sense. 36 00:02:33,040 --> 00:02:36,839 Speaker 1: Is that the event sometimes paths shift, right, So your 37 00:02:36,880 --> 00:02:41,080 Speaker 1: destiny has been obviously wildly affected by this particular crime, 38 00:02:41,200 --> 00:02:44,080 Speaker 1: so for obvious reasons. So yeah, just take me back 39 00:02:44,200 --> 00:02:47,160 Speaker 1: to your experience at school and kind of how you 40 00:02:47,200 --> 00:02:48,239 Speaker 1: made it to that class. 41 00:02:49,000 --> 00:02:52,600 Speaker 2: All right, Well, I thought about criminology for a while 42 00:02:52,919 --> 00:02:55,560 Speaker 2: because it's just like it's so interesting to get into 43 00:02:55,639 --> 00:02:59,240 Speaker 2: you get to learn about literally the criminal behavior of 44 00:02:59,240 --> 00:03:01,840 Speaker 2: these criminals mind and like what works. And so I 45 00:03:01,880 --> 00:03:05,440 Speaker 2: was also considering psychology at the time, which is now 46 00:03:05,639 --> 00:03:08,160 Speaker 2: my major. I had that as a minor. But yeah, 47 00:03:08,200 --> 00:03:10,640 Speaker 2: so the second WAG I remember going, and he did 48 00:03:10,800 --> 00:03:14,560 Speaker 2: introduce Brian and his other TA. I forgot his name, 49 00:03:14,680 --> 00:03:16,800 Speaker 2: and then just kind of went into the details of 50 00:03:16,840 --> 00:03:18,959 Speaker 2: the class. And this class was pretty big. I would 51 00:03:19,040 --> 00:03:23,120 Speaker 2: say like three hundred students. It was a lecture hall, 52 00:03:23,400 --> 00:03:26,359 Speaker 2: so very very big class. 53 00:03:26,440 --> 00:03:30,200 Speaker 1: Just for clarity, Brian Coberger, the accused, he was the 54 00:03:30,240 --> 00:03:33,160 Speaker 1: teacher's assistant, right, we always call it a TA, but 55 00:03:33,360 --> 00:03:35,320 Speaker 1: that's short for teacher's assistant, right. 56 00:03:35,720 --> 00:03:38,680 Speaker 2: Yeah, so he was the teacher's assistant, their little helper 57 00:03:38,720 --> 00:03:42,480 Speaker 2: while they're still in school, basically just to get the knowledge. 58 00:03:42,800 --> 00:03:45,400 Speaker 1: So to be a teacher's assistant, it's kind of like 59 00:03:45,640 --> 00:03:49,960 Speaker 1: a secondary teacher obviously, right, they're a current student. In 60 00:03:50,040 --> 00:03:54,240 Speaker 1: Brian's case, he was getting his PhD and was also 61 00:03:54,320 --> 00:03:58,240 Speaker 1: working as a teacher's assistant in this particular criminology class, 62 00:03:59,120 --> 00:04:03,240 Speaker 1: which makes sense. They with grading and do they participate 63 00:04:03,360 --> 00:04:04,120 Speaker 1: in class. 64 00:04:04,480 --> 00:04:07,800 Speaker 2: They do. Usually it's when a teacher notices a kid 65 00:04:07,920 --> 00:04:10,960 Speaker 2: doing up in a booth, so kind of like just 66 00:04:11,040 --> 00:04:14,680 Speaker 2: doing all their work, just really like teaching others. That's 67 00:04:14,720 --> 00:04:16,720 Speaker 2: just kind of like how they pick out the tas 68 00:04:16,960 --> 00:04:18,719 Speaker 2: just who stands out to them. 69 00:04:18,839 --> 00:04:23,520 Speaker 1: So, so Brian was probably a pretty exemplary student in 70 00:04:23,640 --> 00:04:26,480 Speaker 1: order to even have that kind of a prestigious place. 71 00:04:27,160 --> 00:04:30,000 Speaker 2: Definitely, definitely, yeah, I think so he definitely had had 72 00:04:30,040 --> 00:04:33,440 Speaker 2: some knowledge to get in there, and our professor was 73 00:04:33,480 --> 00:04:36,520 Speaker 2: a very tough dude, so he it had to take 74 00:04:36,560 --> 00:04:37,719 Speaker 2: a lot for him to see something. 75 00:04:40,080 --> 00:04:43,560 Speaker 3: In a statement, Washington University's vice president of Marketing and 76 00:04:43,600 --> 00:04:48,600 Speaker 3: Communication says that quote, mister Cobocker receives an appointment as 77 00:04:48,600 --> 00:04:52,240 Speaker 3: a teaching assistant at Washington State University during the fall 78 00:04:52,360 --> 00:04:55,760 Speaker 3: twenty twenty two semester. It is typical for students to 79 00:04:55,839 --> 00:04:59,120 Speaker 3: receive a teaching assistantship or similar appointment as part of 80 00:04:59,120 --> 00:05:04,920 Speaker 3: their PhD pro Wheeler explained here again, Cassie and Stephanie, 81 00:05:09,400 --> 00:05:09,719 Speaker 3: what was. 82 00:05:09,720 --> 00:05:10,440 Speaker 1: The class about? 83 00:05:11,080 --> 00:05:13,840 Speaker 2: We covered literally how to get away with murder? Like 84 00:05:14,240 --> 00:05:19,000 Speaker 2: we covered pretty good basis because our professor at the time, 85 00:05:19,080 --> 00:05:22,880 Speaker 2: he was a very like knowledgeable man like he worked 86 00:05:22,920 --> 00:05:25,400 Speaker 2: with judges and he was a lawyer for years and 87 00:05:25,440 --> 00:05:28,159 Speaker 2: he worked with a lot of authority. So he wanted 88 00:05:28,200 --> 00:05:31,680 Speaker 2: to teach it how he learned, which was case studies, 89 00:05:31,720 --> 00:05:35,839 Speaker 2: like actually living it. So we went into a lot 90 00:05:35,880 --> 00:05:41,880 Speaker 2: of detail about criminal behavior, the behavior why criminals do 91 00:05:41,920 --> 00:05:45,120 Speaker 2: the thing. But this was more about cases. We would 92 00:05:45,120 --> 00:05:47,600 Speaker 2: look over like a lot of cases and things like that, 93 00:05:47,839 --> 00:05:50,080 Speaker 2: and we would go over the law, so a lot 94 00:05:50,080 --> 00:05:52,680 Speaker 2: of just criminal justice things, a lot of lawyer and 95 00:05:52,800 --> 00:05:53,719 Speaker 2: judge work. 96 00:05:54,080 --> 00:05:55,880 Speaker 1: Is there a part of you because I'm still on 97 00:05:55,920 --> 00:05:58,839 Speaker 1: the fence of I really want to believe that Ryan 98 00:05:58,880 --> 00:06:02,240 Speaker 1: Colberger is innocent. He claims his innocence. I want to 99 00:06:02,279 --> 00:06:04,679 Speaker 1: believe that because I like to believe that a human 100 00:06:04,720 --> 00:06:06,960 Speaker 1: being couldn't pull that off. But again, I don't know 101 00:06:07,040 --> 00:06:09,080 Speaker 1: him the way you do. Is there a part of 102 00:06:09,120 --> 00:06:12,920 Speaker 1: you that thinks maybe he is innocent? There is? 103 00:06:13,240 --> 00:06:15,719 Speaker 2: Yeah. I've had like a lot of people reach out 104 00:06:15,760 --> 00:06:18,839 Speaker 2: to me just kind of like bashing him, like a 105 00:06:18,920 --> 00:06:22,240 Speaker 2: lot of just like newspapers and stuff like that, kind 106 00:06:22,240 --> 00:06:24,040 Speaker 2: of just like oh like trying to get like every 107 00:06:24,080 --> 00:06:26,000 Speaker 2: little scoop out of me to make him out to 108 00:06:26,040 --> 00:06:28,760 Speaker 2: be a bad guy, but in reality, like, this is 109 00:06:28,800 --> 00:06:31,600 Speaker 2: someone's life that we're talking about, and it's like his 110 00:06:31,720 --> 00:06:35,120 Speaker 2: reality as well, So it's there's a lot to take 111 00:06:35,160 --> 00:06:38,679 Speaker 2: into like consideration there, like why would you want someone 112 00:06:39,200 --> 00:06:41,200 Speaker 2: to go through all that and do all that and 113 00:06:41,279 --> 00:06:43,919 Speaker 2: to think that they would, you know, be capable of 114 00:06:43,960 --> 00:06:46,880 Speaker 2: something like that. Like it just blows my mind how 115 00:06:47,320 --> 00:06:48,640 Speaker 2: people are thinking about. 116 00:06:48,360 --> 00:06:52,039 Speaker 1: This case in retrospects. What did he seem? 117 00:06:52,200 --> 00:06:56,480 Speaker 2: Like? I remember walking in Actually he was pretty noticeable, 118 00:06:56,600 --> 00:06:59,200 Speaker 2: believe it or not. But I walked in, saw him, 119 00:06:59,480 --> 00:07:02,480 Speaker 2: and he just didn't say anything. For weeks, he just 120 00:07:02,520 --> 00:07:05,080 Speaker 2: like stood there fiddling with his cup, and you this 121 00:07:05,720 --> 00:07:08,120 Speaker 2: class was like an hour and a half long, sometimes 122 00:07:08,200 --> 00:07:10,640 Speaker 2: up to two hours, Like it just depended. It was 123 00:07:10,680 --> 00:07:13,480 Speaker 2: a very long class for him to just be standing 124 00:07:13,520 --> 00:07:15,720 Speaker 2: up in the front of everyone. So when I was 125 00:07:15,720 --> 00:07:17,960 Speaker 2: bored in the class, I would honestly just watch him 126 00:07:18,240 --> 00:07:21,800 Speaker 2: because I had nothing to do. I already like looked 127 00:07:21,800 --> 00:07:24,040 Speaker 2: at the notes and stuff, and so I would just like, 128 00:07:24,960 --> 00:07:26,280 Speaker 2: there's nothing else to watch. 129 00:07:26,520 --> 00:07:29,280 Speaker 1: And did that seem weird to have somebody just standing 130 00:07:29,280 --> 00:07:32,000 Speaker 1: there for an hour and a half? Is that normal 131 00:07:32,320 --> 00:07:34,120 Speaker 1: or is that odd? Behavior? 132 00:07:35,120 --> 00:07:37,560 Speaker 2: With my other tas are definitely like on their laptop, 133 00:07:37,560 --> 00:07:39,400 Speaker 2: and sometimes you would see him like go on here 134 00:07:39,440 --> 00:07:41,880 Speaker 2: and there, but never for like more than like ten minutes, 135 00:07:41,920 --> 00:07:44,160 Speaker 2: I would say, Or he would just like sit down 136 00:07:44,480 --> 00:07:46,400 Speaker 2: in front of the class, or sometimes he wouldn't even 137 00:07:46,400 --> 00:07:49,400 Speaker 2: be there, just be the professor. But compared to our 138 00:07:49,440 --> 00:07:52,160 Speaker 2: other ta, he would be on his laptop, our teacher 139 00:07:52,200 --> 00:07:56,160 Speaker 2: would be asking him to go do ta things like hey, 140 00:07:56,160 --> 00:07:58,080 Speaker 2: can you pull up this lecture and stuff like that. 141 00:07:58,600 --> 00:08:00,360 Speaker 2: I just never saw any of that from Ryan. 142 00:08:01,040 --> 00:08:03,840 Speaker 1: Was he just also observing the class or did it 143 00:08:03,880 --> 00:08:06,440 Speaker 1: seem like he was just staring off into. 144 00:08:06,240 --> 00:08:10,120 Speaker 2: Space, off to space? Honestly? He would look up a 145 00:08:10,160 --> 00:08:12,440 Speaker 2: couple of times, honestly, just like in his own little world. 146 00:08:13,160 --> 00:08:15,840 Speaker 1: And did he seem like he was interested in the 147 00:08:15,920 --> 00:08:18,480 Speaker 1: content or like you know how somebody you could see 148 00:08:18,480 --> 00:08:21,320 Speaker 1: them and they look like they already know the information, 149 00:08:21,600 --> 00:08:25,480 Speaker 1: so they're kind of just nodding along. Or was he 150 00:08:25,600 --> 00:08:26,520 Speaker 1: kind of checked out? 151 00:08:27,400 --> 00:08:32,000 Speaker 2: I would say both most of the time, when like 152 00:08:32,559 --> 00:08:35,080 Speaker 2: he just he looked like me in that situation, like 153 00:08:35,120 --> 00:08:38,120 Speaker 2: he was just like sometimes nodding here and there. I 154 00:08:38,160 --> 00:08:40,760 Speaker 2: remember the professor trying to get his attention a couple 155 00:08:40,720 --> 00:08:42,640 Speaker 2: of times and take him a couple of times, like 156 00:08:43,080 --> 00:08:43,839 Speaker 2: snap into it. 157 00:08:44,280 --> 00:08:47,600 Speaker 1: So here you are, you're in your criminology class. You're 158 00:08:47,800 --> 00:08:52,880 Speaker 1: just observing three hundred ish people around you, and yeah, 159 00:08:52,960 --> 00:08:54,480 Speaker 1: you just sort of are looking at the people in 160 00:08:54,520 --> 00:08:56,559 Speaker 1: front of you. So in this case, it's the professor 161 00:08:56,600 --> 00:09:01,320 Speaker 1: into additional teacher assistants. He's one of them. And did 162 00:09:01,320 --> 00:09:05,400 Speaker 1: Brian Coburger and the other teacher assistant have any kind 163 00:09:05,400 --> 00:09:06,040 Speaker 1: of a rapport? 164 00:09:06,760 --> 00:09:06,960 Speaker 3: No? 165 00:09:07,400 --> 00:09:10,679 Speaker 2: I think I saw them together in the class maybe 166 00:09:10,720 --> 00:09:12,840 Speaker 2: one time, but other than that they were either switching 167 00:09:12,840 --> 00:09:17,720 Speaker 2: off or there was no tea at all. 168 00:09:17,840 --> 00:09:20,400 Speaker 3: Let's stop here for a break. We'll lead back in 169 00:09:20,440 --> 00:09:20,839 Speaker 3: a moment. 170 00:09:28,360 --> 00:09:30,040 Speaker 1: How would you describe him physically? 171 00:09:30,720 --> 00:09:33,560 Speaker 2: He had a very clean look, very always shaven, very 172 00:09:33,720 --> 00:09:38,160 Speaker 2: like hair done. He was always wearing like sweaters and 173 00:09:38,240 --> 00:09:43,440 Speaker 2: jeans and looked nice. He was tall, white, dark hair, 174 00:09:44,040 --> 00:09:48,280 Speaker 2: very skinny, slim, slim fit. He just always seemed like 175 00:09:48,280 --> 00:09:52,240 Speaker 2: he was just there, not interacting or anything, just there. 176 00:09:52,840 --> 00:09:57,559 Speaker 1: He had said that he seemed noticeable at first, was noticeable, 177 00:09:57,600 --> 00:09:59,880 Speaker 1: the fact that he was so quiet. 178 00:10:00,600 --> 00:10:03,000 Speaker 2: I guess so I would. I just wasn't what I 179 00:10:03,040 --> 00:10:05,960 Speaker 2: was expecting when I first walked in the class. It 180 00:10:06,000 --> 00:10:07,800 Speaker 2: was a lot to take in all the ones. I 181 00:10:07,800 --> 00:10:10,160 Speaker 2: feel like we're getting a lot of information, and half 182 00:10:10,400 --> 00:10:12,720 Speaker 2: the time my brain would just check out and just 183 00:10:12,800 --> 00:10:15,360 Speaker 2: automatic eyes to him because he was the only other 184 00:10:15,400 --> 00:10:19,400 Speaker 2: person down there. Did he have any friends, Uh, not 185 00:10:19,520 --> 00:10:21,760 Speaker 2: that I saw. I mean, he was a very closed 186 00:10:21,800 --> 00:10:24,200 Speaker 2: off ta someta's like to share about their life and 187 00:10:24,240 --> 00:10:27,200 Speaker 2: give us a whole PowerPoint stuff and he never saw 188 00:10:27,200 --> 00:10:29,960 Speaker 2: that one from him, So I don't know much about 189 00:10:30,000 --> 00:10:33,560 Speaker 2: his personal life, but very kept to himself anytime I 190 00:10:33,559 --> 00:10:37,000 Speaker 2: saw him on campus or in class or office hours. 191 00:10:37,800 --> 00:10:39,559 Speaker 1: Did you have office hours with him? 192 00:10:40,080 --> 00:10:43,120 Speaker 2: Yes, it would be with a couple kids. I only 193 00:10:43,160 --> 00:10:48,120 Speaker 2: went twice. Both times were unhelpful, so I left. It's 194 00:10:48,120 --> 00:10:50,880 Speaker 2: basically just like a time to ask him questions, to 195 00:10:50,920 --> 00:10:54,440 Speaker 2: ask him about work, to do work with him, to 196 00:10:54,960 --> 00:10:57,200 Speaker 2: need help on case studies, just anything like that, or 197 00:10:57,200 --> 00:11:01,040 Speaker 2: even studying for like a next exam or quiz. Those 198 00:11:01,040 --> 00:11:02,719 Speaker 2: are what office I was just supposed to be for. 199 00:11:03,320 --> 00:11:05,040 Speaker 2: But most of the time there's just a bunch of 200 00:11:05,120 --> 00:11:08,520 Speaker 2: kids kind of either doing group work together or just 201 00:11:08,559 --> 00:11:11,240 Speaker 2: a quiet voice like study or wherever, and he would 202 00:11:11,320 --> 00:11:13,960 Speaker 2: just be like on his lap, up close off like 203 00:11:14,000 --> 00:11:14,559 Speaker 2: to himself. 204 00:11:15,280 --> 00:11:17,679 Speaker 1: Did he ever ask any personal questions to you. 205 00:11:18,679 --> 00:11:22,599 Speaker 2: No. No. I remember like trying to have a conversation 206 00:11:22,720 --> 00:11:26,360 Speaker 2: one time because I need help with one of the assignments, 207 00:11:26,400 --> 00:11:28,599 Speaker 2: and it was just kind of like, well, did you 208 00:11:28,679 --> 00:11:31,480 Speaker 2: review the work? And I'm like, yes, I reviewed the 209 00:11:31,520 --> 00:11:35,680 Speaker 2: work and so kind of gave my attitude back, but 210 00:11:36,440 --> 00:11:39,840 Speaker 2: it was yeah, I don't know. After that time, I 211 00:11:39,880 --> 00:11:41,600 Speaker 2: think I just didn't end up going. 212 00:11:42,760 --> 00:11:44,800 Speaker 1: So everybody wants to know the same thing, right. We 213 00:11:44,960 --> 00:11:47,440 Speaker 1: all like to believe in our hearts that if we 214 00:11:47,559 --> 00:11:51,079 Speaker 1: come across somebody who's violent or dangerous, that we'd get 215 00:11:51,080 --> 00:11:54,520 Speaker 1: a spidy sense or people always talk about I had 216 00:11:54,559 --> 00:11:57,560 Speaker 1: a sixth sense, So you know, kind of part of 217 00:11:57,640 --> 00:12:00,440 Speaker 1: even why it's so important to talk about this staff 218 00:12:00,559 --> 00:12:03,520 Speaker 1: is I'm so curious, did you have that feeling that 219 00:12:03,600 --> 00:12:08,440 Speaker 1: he was capable or off people have called him in 220 00:12:08,520 --> 00:12:12,520 Speaker 1: the press very creepy in retrospect, or did he just 221 00:12:12,520 --> 00:12:13,920 Speaker 1: seem like an ordinary guy? 222 00:12:19,760 --> 00:12:23,760 Speaker 2: To be honest, I never got any of those feelings. However, 223 00:12:23,880 --> 00:12:27,720 Speaker 2: I do remember this one incident that happened when I 224 00:12:27,760 --> 00:12:30,240 Speaker 2: went into class. And usually you sit next to like 225 00:12:30,240 --> 00:12:33,240 Speaker 2: a different person every day. It's not like everyone's like, buddy, buddies, 226 00:12:33,480 --> 00:12:37,520 Speaker 2: So sit down, and the dude next to me, like 227 00:12:37,520 --> 00:12:40,120 Speaker 2: straight off the bat when Brian came in, was like, oh, 228 00:12:40,160 --> 00:12:42,120 Speaker 2: doesn't he give you like weird vibes? And I was like, 229 00:12:44,360 --> 00:12:46,679 Speaker 2: and that's like one comment that since now I'm like, 230 00:12:46,760 --> 00:12:51,000 Speaker 2: oh my gosh, Like how did I get He said 231 00:12:51,000 --> 00:12:53,000 Speaker 2: something about his eyes. It was like in the eyes 232 00:12:53,040 --> 00:12:55,240 Speaker 2: and now that I'm looking at him, and I'm like, yeah, 233 00:12:55,240 --> 00:12:58,880 Speaker 2: I guess that makes sense, but me personally. 234 00:12:58,600 --> 00:13:01,760 Speaker 1: No, So like in the days leading up, so I 235 00:13:01,760 --> 00:13:05,679 Speaker 1: would imagine it's just business as usual. Right Thanksgiving break 236 00:13:05,800 --> 00:13:09,040 Speaker 1: is on the horizon. You guys are taking finals probably 237 00:13:09,120 --> 00:13:12,520 Speaker 1: or at least preparing for finals. Did anything seem out 238 00:13:12,520 --> 00:13:15,599 Speaker 1: of the ordinary in the days leading up to the 239 00:13:15,720 --> 00:13:18,600 Speaker 1: murders in terms of your experience with Brian. 240 00:13:19,440 --> 00:13:23,960 Speaker 2: I would say that before we even like heard, so 241 00:13:24,120 --> 00:13:27,479 Speaker 2: there was like a time period of right when finals 242 00:13:27,520 --> 00:13:31,360 Speaker 2: were happening and like right after and it was straight 243 00:13:31,400 --> 00:13:34,920 Speaker 2: a's a lot of really good grades and good comments 244 00:13:34,960 --> 00:13:39,360 Speaker 2: from Brian himself. But before that it was not so good, 245 00:13:39,480 --> 00:13:44,080 Speaker 2: very harsh grading, very not great. But and I talked 246 00:13:44,120 --> 00:13:45,880 Speaker 2: to so many of my classmates and then like, did 247 00:13:45,920 --> 00:13:48,120 Speaker 2: you notice your grades going up? And he would go 248 00:13:48,160 --> 00:13:51,120 Speaker 2: in detail on my work and like all my other 249 00:13:51,240 --> 00:13:54,640 Speaker 2: classmates work about how good it was. But you can 250 00:13:54,640 --> 00:13:58,520 Speaker 2: tell like the difference from before that it was like no, 251 00:13:58,679 --> 00:14:01,600 Speaker 2: like UNI fixes your grand you know, all that little 252 00:14:01,760 --> 00:14:02,959 Speaker 2: nitty picky stuff. 253 00:14:07,960 --> 00:14:12,040 Speaker 3: Cassie's experience with Coburger is not unique. It's been reported 254 00:14:12,120 --> 00:14:16,079 Speaker 3: that former students have said he quote seemed preoccupied after 255 00:14:16,120 --> 00:14:19,840 Speaker 3: the slayings and became an easier grater. But Coburger's change 256 00:14:19,840 --> 00:14:23,600 Speaker 3: in affect wasn't the only notable thing. Here's more from Cassie. 257 00:14:25,360 --> 00:14:29,200 Speaker 2: We also got a lot of complaints. I personally didn't 258 00:14:29,200 --> 00:14:31,360 Speaker 2: see a problem in it, but a lot of the 259 00:14:31,400 --> 00:14:34,480 Speaker 2: female writers and all that, because we do a lot 260 00:14:34,520 --> 00:14:37,160 Speaker 2: of case studies and we'd have to make reports on them. 261 00:14:37,640 --> 00:14:40,960 Speaker 2: A lot of people just thought he was very sexist 262 00:14:41,880 --> 00:14:45,240 Speaker 2: as a TA, especially in like one on ones apparently 263 00:14:45,320 --> 00:14:47,640 Speaker 2: like he showed just a lot of anger towards them 264 00:14:47,680 --> 00:14:51,240 Speaker 2: in a way which I'd never experienced that, So I 265 00:14:51,240 --> 00:14:54,200 Speaker 2: don't know, that's just what I got from my other classmates. 266 00:14:54,480 --> 00:14:56,440 Speaker 1: I had heard reports of that as well. Like you know, 267 00:14:56,480 --> 00:14:59,160 Speaker 1: there was a lot written about the fact that he 268 00:14:59,240 --> 00:15:04,000 Speaker 1: did these posts to prisoners behind bars or people to 269 00:15:04,040 --> 00:15:06,920 Speaker 1: who have committed crimes, like he almost did this poll 270 00:15:07,120 --> 00:15:11,320 Speaker 1: to see what their personality traits were like, or you know, 271 00:15:11,360 --> 00:15:15,080 Speaker 1: when they knew it was time to kill or sort 272 00:15:15,120 --> 00:15:19,440 Speaker 1: of it seemed as though he was profiling murderers right 273 00:15:19,560 --> 00:15:24,800 Speaker 1: to sort of better understand how their brain worked. And 274 00:15:24,840 --> 00:15:28,440 Speaker 1: then the day this hideous day happens. Tell me about 275 00:15:28,480 --> 00:15:29,000 Speaker 1: that day. 276 00:15:29,600 --> 00:15:32,760 Speaker 2: Honestly, it was just another day because when we all 277 00:15:32,800 --> 00:15:36,760 Speaker 2: heard about it, you were very we were very heartbroken, 278 00:15:36,880 --> 00:15:39,280 Speaker 2: but we didn't hear from the school or anything. We 279 00:15:39,360 --> 00:15:41,640 Speaker 2: just heard from like news. We didn't even know, like 280 00:15:41,920 --> 00:15:44,880 Speaker 2: it didn't even click that it was in Idaho at 281 00:15:45,000 --> 00:15:48,080 Speaker 2: u of I, and so like maybe the next week, 282 00:15:48,680 --> 00:15:50,640 Speaker 2: like is when it like really hit me in my 283 00:15:50,760 --> 00:15:53,080 Speaker 2: roommate and anyone close to me really like it just 284 00:15:53,120 --> 00:15:57,400 Speaker 2: didn't register. And then when everything started catching up over 285 00:15:57,520 --> 00:15:59,720 Speaker 2: breaking stuff is when it really just hit me in 286 00:15:59,720 --> 00:16:02,000 Speaker 2: all like, oh my gosh, like this is pretty close. 287 00:16:02,320 --> 00:16:04,760 Speaker 2: And then when I really started to realize is when 288 00:16:04,800 --> 00:16:07,760 Speaker 2: I would get calls from out of state family and 289 00:16:08,160 --> 00:16:10,880 Speaker 2: they'd be like, you know, you got to get home, 290 00:16:11,120 --> 00:16:13,800 Speaker 2: like it's almost break, like weren't you there early and 291 00:16:15,040 --> 00:16:18,760 Speaker 2: all that stuff, and my mom and my dad, my siblings, 292 00:16:18,840 --> 00:16:22,440 Speaker 2: just constant calls about, you know, get my ass home, 293 00:16:22,760 --> 00:16:25,880 Speaker 2: because it's getting a little scary, especially when they hadn't 294 00:16:25,920 --> 00:16:27,080 Speaker 2: like caught him and all that. 295 00:16:27,560 --> 00:16:31,160 Speaker 1: During that time there was a national man hunt. It 296 00:16:31,280 --> 00:16:33,480 Speaker 1: must be a very scary feeling to know that there 297 00:16:33,600 --> 00:16:37,680 Speaker 1: is a killer at large, frankly targeting beautiful girls like 298 00:16:37,720 --> 00:16:39,880 Speaker 1: yourself in the same exact age group. 299 00:16:40,640 --> 00:16:45,000 Speaker 2: It was pretty scary because everyone at WSU was wondering, 300 00:16:45,720 --> 00:16:48,440 Speaker 2: what are we supposed to do because you and I 301 00:16:48,680 --> 00:16:53,840 Speaker 2: had already set a curfew and they took, you know, precautions, 302 00:16:53,880 --> 00:16:56,040 Speaker 2: and they didn't they closed like class for a couple 303 00:16:56,040 --> 00:16:57,480 Speaker 2: of days or something like that. You know, they took 304 00:16:57,520 --> 00:17:00,360 Speaker 2: their precautions, but WSU was like, no, they send out 305 00:17:00,400 --> 00:17:02,160 Speaker 2: an email. They were like, this has nothing to do 306 00:17:02,200 --> 00:17:06,800 Speaker 2: with us. We you know, they were like, we send 307 00:17:06,800 --> 00:17:09,520 Speaker 2: our love to the families. You know, they expressed that 308 00:17:09,560 --> 00:17:12,320 Speaker 2: pretty well. But they were also like, this is our business. 309 00:17:12,320 --> 00:17:14,760 Speaker 2: We will continue class. We will not have a man 310 00:17:15,080 --> 00:17:18,199 Speaker 2: you know, curfew. And then to think that it was 311 00:17:18,240 --> 00:17:21,359 Speaker 2: like under their own roof is like, oh, like, are 312 00:17:21,400 --> 00:17:26,080 Speaker 2: you kidding? And for the people like myself and the 313 00:17:26,520 --> 00:17:29,399 Speaker 2: couple other hundred kids who stayed when everyone else left 314 00:17:29,600 --> 00:17:31,639 Speaker 2: when they found out there was a murder on the loose. 315 00:17:32,480 --> 00:17:36,199 Speaker 2: That's terrifying. Like he was like probably on campus, you know, 316 00:17:36,320 --> 00:17:40,359 Speaker 2: doing his thing until he left for his break, and 317 00:17:40,520 --> 00:17:44,520 Speaker 2: the fact that he was in class and still replying 318 00:17:44,560 --> 00:17:48,080 Speaker 2: to our campus notifications, and I would get like I 319 00:17:48,119 --> 00:17:51,359 Speaker 2: remember looking at all the emails that he sent me 320 00:17:51,400 --> 00:17:54,560 Speaker 2: after it all happened, and a couple of weeks later, 321 00:17:54,560 --> 00:17:57,800 Speaker 2: they were just gone, and I was like, oh my god, what. 322 00:17:57,760 --> 00:18:00,520 Speaker 1: Does that mean? They were gone, like they got moved. 323 00:18:01,720 --> 00:18:05,639 Speaker 2: Yeah, so any canvas notifications I had from him any 324 00:18:06,359 --> 00:18:08,680 Speaker 2: because I literally remember like looking through all of them 325 00:18:08,720 --> 00:18:10,639 Speaker 2: and I was like just you know, kind of like 326 00:18:10,760 --> 00:18:14,560 Speaker 2: observing all them and seeing if I noticed anything. And 327 00:18:14,640 --> 00:18:17,959 Speaker 2: I had all of his little edits and stuff then 328 00:18:18,160 --> 00:18:20,040 Speaker 2: and then I went back one day to look at them, 329 00:18:20,080 --> 00:18:24,320 Speaker 2: and Camus had removed all them. It was just very 330 00:18:24,359 --> 00:18:29,240 Speaker 2: in detail, good notes about my work after everything happened, 331 00:18:29,400 --> 00:18:31,479 Speaker 2: very like it wasn't short and sweet. 332 00:18:35,400 --> 00:18:41,120 Speaker 1: So this man potentially murdered four people and then he 333 00:18:41,160 --> 00:18:45,159 Speaker 1: went back to class and then he still continued to 334 00:18:45,359 --> 00:18:54,800 Speaker 1: grade papers and maybe did it in a lighter, happier way. Yes, Yeah, 335 00:18:55,200 --> 00:18:56,960 Speaker 1: So like what do you make of that? Does that mean? 336 00:18:57,440 --> 00:19:01,199 Speaker 2: I think he was definitely trying to If it was 337 00:19:01,240 --> 00:19:04,080 Speaker 2: n'im could possibly like not be him. But I think 338 00:19:04,119 --> 00:19:06,920 Speaker 2: if it was, he was trying to cover it up, 339 00:19:07,040 --> 00:19:09,159 Speaker 2: you know, in a way obviously. And that's like the 340 00:19:09,200 --> 00:19:12,560 Speaker 2: first thing you do after it all goes down. You 341 00:19:12,680 --> 00:19:15,720 Speaker 2: kind of want to act like nothing happened, maybe even 342 00:19:15,800 --> 00:19:19,520 Speaker 2: make yourself seem a little bit better, maybe more better 343 00:19:19,600 --> 00:19:22,760 Speaker 2: guy then some of your classmates might describe you. You know, 344 00:19:22,800 --> 00:19:25,119 Speaker 2: you don't want to hear about how you might be 345 00:19:25,160 --> 00:19:28,560 Speaker 2: a sexist the when you just kill like three girls, 346 00:19:28,560 --> 00:19:31,719 Speaker 2: like that's not you want to sere completely opposite of that. 347 00:19:32,320 --> 00:19:35,480 Speaker 2: There were so many things that he did that just 348 00:19:35,520 --> 00:19:38,639 Speaker 2: didn't make sense. If you were getting your PhD in 349 00:19:39,160 --> 00:19:43,359 Speaker 2: criminology or criminal justice or whatever, why would you go 350 00:19:43,480 --> 00:19:46,960 Speaker 2: the route of revisiting the place so many times and 351 00:19:47,000 --> 00:19:50,320 Speaker 2: not checking your phone being that's one of the first 352 00:19:50,359 --> 00:19:54,120 Speaker 2: things we learned in class, everything how you get caught, 353 00:19:54,400 --> 00:19:56,520 Speaker 2: and so he already had this down. So it just 354 00:19:56,640 --> 00:19:59,720 Speaker 2: it doesn't really make sense why he would do so 355 00:19:59,760 --> 00:20:04,040 Speaker 2: many things to jeopardize people catching them. 356 00:20:09,080 --> 00:20:11,879 Speaker 1: We were just reviewing this yesterday, so it sounds like 357 00:20:11,960 --> 00:20:15,240 Speaker 1: he was pinged just to bring anybody up to speed. 358 00:20:15,320 --> 00:20:18,760 Speaker 1: So his cell phone pinged about fifteen times in and 359 00:20:18,800 --> 00:20:22,600 Speaker 1: around the area leading up to the murders and then after. 360 00:20:22,840 --> 00:20:25,679 Speaker 1: But I can't agree with you more. It doesn't totally 361 00:20:25,720 --> 00:20:27,840 Speaker 1: add up. That's so interesting to me that you really 362 00:20:27,840 --> 00:20:28,520 Speaker 1: did study that. 363 00:20:32,760 --> 00:20:35,439 Speaker 3: Let's stop here for another break. We'll be back in 364 00:20:35,480 --> 00:20:35,840 Speaker 3: a moment. 365 00:20:42,680 --> 00:20:46,000 Speaker 1: Tell me everything you can remember about the days after. 366 00:20:46,440 --> 00:20:50,439 Speaker 2: The days after. Physically, it was his eyes for me, 367 00:20:50,800 --> 00:20:54,040 Speaker 2: they were very sunken and very black. It was like 368 00:20:54,119 --> 00:20:57,159 Speaker 2: he hadn't sleeped in like days, maybe weeks. That's just 369 00:20:57,160 --> 00:20:58,760 Speaker 2: what the appearance look like. But I was never one 370 00:20:58,840 --> 00:21:00,879 Speaker 2: to judge. I was like, okay, long night, we have 371 00:21:00,960 --> 00:21:04,879 Speaker 2: finals coming up. It's okay, but yeah, that's one of 372 00:21:04,920 --> 00:21:07,840 Speaker 2: the main things. And I guess a lot of unshavenness 373 00:21:07,880 --> 00:21:11,000 Speaker 2: and a little messier and then right after you could 374 00:21:11,320 --> 00:21:12,360 Speaker 2: tell the difference. 375 00:21:14,720 --> 00:21:17,320 Speaker 1: Can you describe what it was like to find out 376 00:21:17,359 --> 00:21:21,840 Speaker 1: that Brian Coberger, your teacher's assistant, had been arrested and 377 00:21:21,920 --> 00:21:23,520 Speaker 1: accused of the murders. 378 00:21:24,280 --> 00:21:28,760 Speaker 2: Yeah. So I was in my dorm in the Olympia 379 00:21:28,880 --> 00:21:35,080 Speaker 2: dorm at WSU with my roommate, and I remember we 380 00:21:35,080 --> 00:21:36,960 Speaker 2: were looking at a case because it came out. She's like, oh, 381 00:21:37,080 --> 00:21:38,720 Speaker 2: I'm going to look at it. I was like, okay, yeah, 382 00:21:38,800 --> 00:21:41,879 Speaker 2: just tell me. I was cleaning or whatever, and she 383 00:21:42,040 --> 00:21:45,760 Speaker 2: was like, holy shit, Cassie, like it says criminology. And 384 00:21:45,800 --> 00:21:49,639 Speaker 2: I was like, no way, and she was like, you 385 00:21:49,800 --> 00:21:51,520 Speaker 2: have to go on campus right now. I was like, 386 00:21:51,560 --> 00:21:53,200 Speaker 2: why are you freaking out? Like she wouldn't really tell 387 00:21:53,240 --> 00:21:56,440 Speaker 2: me at first, and then she was like, who's your TA? 388 00:21:56,600 --> 00:21:58,359 Speaker 2: So I told her and then she was like there's 389 00:21:58,560 --> 00:22:01,040 Speaker 2: no way you're not to believe this, and so we 390 00:22:01,119 --> 00:22:04,879 Speaker 2: both started freaking out. And yeah, that was the moment. 391 00:22:05,000 --> 00:22:06,600 Speaker 2: And then she was kind of like, I need to 392 00:22:06,600 --> 00:22:08,760 Speaker 2: get the hell out of here. So she dipped a 393 00:22:08,800 --> 00:22:12,879 Speaker 2: little early for Thanksgiving break and yeah, I still to 394 00:22:12,880 --> 00:22:14,560 Speaker 2: save the extra week. So I was just kind of 395 00:22:14,560 --> 00:22:17,440 Speaker 2: like sitting with that information, and I remember not wanting 396 00:22:17,480 --> 00:22:22,040 Speaker 2: to go out because even before I remember my roommate 397 00:22:22,480 --> 00:22:24,720 Speaker 2: not letting me go out, like anytime I'd be like hey, 398 00:22:24,760 --> 00:22:27,240 Speaker 2: like like there's a party going out, No, you're staying. 399 00:22:27,480 --> 00:22:30,800 Speaker 2: You know, there's a murderer out there, very hard lecture 400 00:22:31,680 --> 00:22:33,879 Speaker 2: about not going out and none of that. 401 00:22:34,359 --> 00:22:38,040 Speaker 1: But it was just crazy when he went to class. 402 00:22:38,720 --> 00:22:42,400 Speaker 1: Was he participating in any of the conversations about the murders. 403 00:22:43,000 --> 00:22:46,160 Speaker 2: No, but we did discuss it in class. We did 404 00:22:46,359 --> 00:22:49,040 Speaker 2: have remember Phil was from the school of the class, 405 00:22:49,080 --> 00:22:51,879 Speaker 2: but a lot of notifications I got from campus, you know, 406 00:22:51,920 --> 00:22:54,520 Speaker 2: like discussing the murderers, like kind of just like, hey, 407 00:22:54,560 --> 00:22:56,399 Speaker 2: like everyone needs to stay focused, but this is a 408 00:22:56,480 --> 00:22:59,800 Speaker 2: very troubled time, you know whatever, just giving a reminder 409 00:22:59,840 --> 00:23:03,600 Speaker 2: to all the classmates, like stay focused. But we did 410 00:23:03,640 --> 00:23:05,480 Speaker 2: talk about the case, and we even like kind of 411 00:23:05,480 --> 00:23:08,880 Speaker 2: went in details of everything that went down. I remember 412 00:23:09,440 --> 00:23:11,359 Speaker 2: a lot of people asking questions about it, so like 413 00:23:11,440 --> 00:23:13,600 Speaker 2: raising their hands and stuff, and there was a lot 414 00:23:13,680 --> 00:23:16,520 Speaker 2: so going around the room and our professor was just 415 00:23:16,560 --> 00:23:21,560 Speaker 2: there answering the questions. And I don't remember seeing Brian 416 00:23:21,720 --> 00:23:24,520 Speaker 2: in class when we did talk about it. I remember 417 00:23:24,560 --> 00:23:28,960 Speaker 2: hearing that he was, but I didn't really go to class. 418 00:23:29,000 --> 00:23:31,399 Speaker 2: After everything happened, it kind of took me on a 419 00:23:32,840 --> 00:23:34,720 Speaker 2: kind of hit me a little bit where I was like, 420 00:23:34,760 --> 00:23:36,720 Speaker 2: this is getting a little too real. So I kind 421 00:23:36,720 --> 00:23:39,800 Speaker 2: of stepped back from criminology and all that. 422 00:23:40,560 --> 00:23:43,320 Speaker 1: You changed your major, huh, so, like criminology is not 423 00:23:43,359 --> 00:23:44,240 Speaker 1: your thing anymore. 424 00:23:45,240 --> 00:23:48,120 Speaker 2: I will always have a special place in my heart 425 00:23:48,119 --> 00:23:52,159 Speaker 2: for chriminology, but I don't think it's my time or 426 00:23:52,560 --> 00:23:54,840 Speaker 2: you know, when everything happened, it just got so real 427 00:23:55,400 --> 00:23:57,480 Speaker 2: and I was like, this might not be for me 428 00:23:57,720 --> 00:23:59,960 Speaker 2: because I don't know. I was just thinking too psychic 429 00:24:00,240 --> 00:24:04,399 Speaker 2: psychologically into it, and so I changed my major to 430 00:24:04,440 --> 00:24:07,600 Speaker 2: my minor, which was psychology, hoping that leads to a 431 00:24:07,600 --> 00:24:08,560 Speaker 2: better future with that. 432 00:24:10,280 --> 00:24:13,400 Speaker 1: It's very traumatic and I'm super sorry that you had 433 00:24:13,400 --> 00:24:17,240 Speaker 1: to even experience anything so close to something so disgusting. 434 00:24:18,040 --> 00:24:20,840 Speaker 1: Did you have any knowledge or did you know any 435 00:24:20,880 --> 00:24:21,680 Speaker 1: of the victims? 436 00:24:22,600 --> 00:24:25,400 Speaker 2: No, I did not know a lot of people from 437 00:24:25,520 --> 00:24:27,959 Speaker 2: u of I I knew a couple of people who 438 00:24:28,359 --> 00:24:30,359 Speaker 2: had friends who you know, like a friend of a friend, 439 00:24:30,680 --> 00:24:33,600 Speaker 2: and so even then it affected them in such a 440 00:24:33,640 --> 00:24:37,120 Speaker 2: way you know, I could only imagine. And we did 441 00:24:37,160 --> 00:24:40,560 Speaker 2: have a couple like memorial stuff like a candle it 442 00:24:41,000 --> 00:24:44,159 Speaker 2: thing and a little other one to show work of 443 00:24:44,240 --> 00:24:47,200 Speaker 2: bys and place like flowers and pictures of them and 444 00:24:47,240 --> 00:24:50,760 Speaker 2: stuff like at the u OFI statue the plaque that 445 00:24:50,800 --> 00:24:51,600 Speaker 2: they have, So. 446 00:24:51,600 --> 00:24:54,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, I've seen that. Yeah, it's pretty moving. Like even 447 00:24:54,960 --> 00:24:56,680 Speaker 1: as I talk to you, I feel for your mom 448 00:24:56,720 --> 00:24:59,000 Speaker 1: and dad because I would want you out of there. 449 00:24:59,200 --> 00:25:02,560 Speaker 1: It was it seemed means dangerous. You know, there's a 450 00:25:02,560 --> 00:25:04,359 Speaker 1: part of us that all think, oh my god, it 451 00:25:04,400 --> 00:25:06,280 Speaker 1: could be you, right, like he could have been staring 452 00:25:06,280 --> 00:25:09,479 Speaker 1: at you as a teacher's assistant and targeted you. What 453 00:25:09,480 --> 00:25:11,240 Speaker 1: do you make of it? So now, like over a 454 00:25:11,320 --> 00:25:14,960 Speaker 1: year now behind you, what is your take on it? 455 00:25:15,000 --> 00:25:17,560 Speaker 1: Is it possible? Like it is it track for you? 456 00:25:17,760 --> 00:25:20,240 Speaker 1: Is it impossible that he could have pulled this off? 457 00:25:23,160 --> 00:25:27,639 Speaker 2: There is a very very clear like possibility that he 458 00:25:27,680 --> 00:25:30,400 Speaker 2: could have done this. And when you bring up alibi, 459 00:25:30,440 --> 00:25:33,520 Speaker 2: that's very like it just almost makes sense to cover 460 00:25:33,600 --> 00:25:36,040 Speaker 2: up like the missing pieces, Like if only there was 461 00:25:36,080 --> 00:25:39,400 Speaker 2: an alibi, it would all make sense. But there isn't, 462 00:25:39,800 --> 00:25:43,320 Speaker 2: at least from like what we all know. So it's 463 00:25:43,400 --> 00:25:45,840 Speaker 2: all still so confusing to say, like if you did 464 00:25:45,840 --> 00:25:47,800 Speaker 2: it or if you didn't. But there are just so 465 00:25:48,080 --> 00:25:51,280 Speaker 2: many things that he did after like the cell phone 466 00:25:51,320 --> 00:25:54,320 Speaker 2: paying and all that that just wouldn't make sense if 467 00:25:54,320 --> 00:25:57,920 Speaker 2: he didn't do it. So I don't know. I'm kinda 468 00:25:58,040 --> 00:26:00,840 Speaker 2: I'm leaning towards did it, but I also hold a 469 00:26:00,880 --> 00:26:04,119 Speaker 2: lot of sympathy still, I'm a very empathetic person, so 470 00:26:05,080 --> 00:26:08,040 Speaker 2: not to say, like what he did wasn't fucked up, 471 00:26:08,160 --> 00:26:10,520 Speaker 2: but if he didn't do it, like I still like 472 00:26:10,880 --> 00:26:14,439 Speaker 2: I'm still holding that, you know. And there was just 473 00:26:14,480 --> 00:26:17,280 Speaker 2: so much that went into it. It was all just 474 00:26:17,320 --> 00:26:19,960 Speaker 2: so much. I hope like one day it just all 475 00:26:20,040 --> 00:26:24,200 Speaker 2: gets figured out and can finally close the case. 476 00:26:24,720 --> 00:26:28,160 Speaker 1: And the school. Now, Like if everything sort of settles down, 477 00:26:28,200 --> 00:26:30,840 Speaker 1: do people still talk about it? Is it not a 478 00:26:30,840 --> 00:26:32,720 Speaker 1: big topic of conversation anymore. 479 00:26:33,240 --> 00:26:36,119 Speaker 2: Yeah, when this like hit, it was like huge, biggest 480 00:26:36,119 --> 00:26:40,000 Speaker 2: thing that happened. But last year at WQ was a 481 00:26:40,160 --> 00:26:43,000 Speaker 2: very crazy year. It was a very sad year for Pulman, 482 00:26:43,119 --> 00:26:44,960 Speaker 2: and then this kind of hit and everyone it was 483 00:26:45,000 --> 00:26:48,720 Speaker 2: like a whole Pullman's name was changed to this is 484 00:26:48,720 --> 00:26:51,879 Speaker 2: where it happened, and so it was just traumatizing for 485 00:26:51,920 --> 00:26:55,280 Speaker 2: the entire school and even like myself and a lot 486 00:26:55,320 --> 00:26:57,200 Speaker 2: of people I knew, Like I even met people at 487 00:26:57,200 --> 00:27:00,000 Speaker 2: the Vancouver campus because I'm at the Vancouver campus now 488 00:27:00,800 --> 00:27:04,280 Speaker 2: who moved because of the situation. And I talked to 489 00:27:04,359 --> 00:27:07,000 Speaker 2: like so many people at my campus now who just 490 00:27:07,600 --> 00:27:10,920 Speaker 2: were like in my class sitting there like in front 491 00:27:10,960 --> 00:27:13,840 Speaker 2: of me now who I never met, like explaining to 492 00:27:13,880 --> 00:27:16,120 Speaker 2: me how hard it was for them, so where they 493 00:27:16,160 --> 00:27:18,639 Speaker 2: had to move because they couldn't like even be in 494 00:27:18,720 --> 00:27:21,120 Speaker 2: the same tiny little town anymore, Like it didn't feel 495 00:27:21,160 --> 00:27:23,840 Speaker 2: the same, which is just so sad to hear about. 496 00:27:23,960 --> 00:27:28,679 Speaker 2: And yeah, it's just very sad year for maybe a supplement. 497 00:27:33,160 --> 00:27:35,000 Speaker 1: One last thing. I just got like covered in chills. 498 00:27:35,760 --> 00:27:37,680 Speaker 1: You bring up such a big point that I think 499 00:27:37,720 --> 00:27:40,240 Speaker 1: we should probably dive deeper in. He was only there 500 00:27:40,280 --> 00:27:44,160 Speaker 1: for a year, and you know, the victims have this, 501 00:27:44,359 --> 00:27:48,919 Speaker 1: you know, kind of iconically fun looking life. Is it 502 00:27:48,960 --> 00:27:52,200 Speaker 1: possible that he was just this outsider kind of wishing 503 00:27:52,240 --> 00:27:54,600 Speaker 1: to have it, or became obsessed with one of them 504 00:27:54,920 --> 00:27:58,760 Speaker 1: and just lost his mind one night, or was just 505 00:27:58,760 --> 00:28:02,000 Speaker 1: just a perfect storm that was brewing and they were 506 00:28:02,080 --> 00:28:04,680 Speaker 1: just the unfortunate targets, And it could have been anyone. 507 00:28:05,200 --> 00:28:06,080 Speaker 1: It's so hard to know. 508 00:28:10,600 --> 00:28:14,359 Speaker 2: They both could be like such possible answers, crazy to 509 00:28:14,400 --> 00:28:17,880 Speaker 2: think about. Yeah, the party life at both schools were 510 00:28:17,920 --> 00:28:20,760 Speaker 2: both pretty big. If you weren't in the party life, 511 00:28:20,800 --> 00:28:23,359 Speaker 2: it was I can definitely seem more of an outsider 512 00:28:23,760 --> 00:28:26,600 Speaker 2: like standpoint. But then again, like everyone was so accepting. 513 00:28:26,640 --> 00:28:28,720 Speaker 2: If you would just walk up to any house, you'd 514 00:28:28,760 --> 00:28:31,560 Speaker 2: be in a party, Like no one would like kick 515 00:28:31,600 --> 00:28:33,680 Speaker 2: you out or anyth unless you're being weird, which could 516 00:28:33,720 --> 00:28:37,520 Speaker 2: be the case. But you know, very accepting schools, both 517 00:28:37,560 --> 00:28:40,320 Speaker 2: of them, very kind hearts. Everyone had a smile on 518 00:28:40,360 --> 00:28:43,560 Speaker 2: their face, and even when like tough times like this, 519 00:28:43,800 --> 00:28:46,400 Speaker 2: even we still like would have smiles on our faces. 520 00:28:46,400 --> 00:28:49,160 Speaker 2: We'd take a break from schools and like as a community, 521 00:28:49,240 --> 00:28:51,680 Speaker 2: not even like the school policy, like we would all 522 00:28:51,720 --> 00:28:54,360 Speaker 2: come together and be like we're we're gonna go to 523 00:28:54,400 --> 00:28:56,880 Speaker 2: a memorial instead, or we're going to hold this event 524 00:28:56,960 --> 00:28:59,360 Speaker 2: for them. So yeah, it was a very good community 525 00:28:59,400 --> 00:29:02,000 Speaker 2: to have while everything else was kind of fallen down 526 00:29:02,160 --> 00:29:02,720 Speaker 2: around us. 527 00:29:03,680 --> 00:29:05,760 Speaker 1: Just in closing, is there anything that we don't have 528 00:29:05,880 --> 00:29:09,160 Speaker 1: right that, just based on your experience just in general, 529 00:29:09,400 --> 00:29:10,920 Speaker 1: that people just have wrong. 530 00:29:12,360 --> 00:29:15,360 Speaker 2: Before the situation happened, they kind of make him seem 531 00:29:15,400 --> 00:29:18,600 Speaker 2: to be like this creep who didn't have anything for 532 00:29:18,840 --> 00:29:21,720 Speaker 2: him going. But he was like almost done with his life. 533 00:29:22,040 --> 00:29:24,720 Speaker 2: He was at his goal. He had so much of 534 00:29:24,760 --> 00:29:29,240 Speaker 2: a future ahead of him, and to say that he 535 00:29:29,280 --> 00:29:32,720 Speaker 2: didn't it is just straight out lies. It's not that 536 00:29:32,800 --> 00:29:34,800 Speaker 2: he was like a weird outsider dude and didn't have 537 00:29:34,840 --> 00:29:38,880 Speaker 2: anything going for him. He was there and oh gosh, 538 00:29:39,200 --> 00:29:41,600 Speaker 2: I can't even imagine. That's all we wish for to 539 00:29:41,640 --> 00:29:45,720 Speaker 2: get to that goal where he was. He just threw 540 00:29:45,760 --> 00:29:48,520 Speaker 2: it all away, which is so sad, but either way, 541 00:29:48,560 --> 00:29:52,520 Speaker 2: it's a very unfortunate trail of events that happened. 542 00:29:56,960 --> 00:30:01,280 Speaker 3: More on that next time. For more information on the 543 00:30:01,320 --> 00:30:05,280 Speaker 3: case and relevant photos, follow us on Instagram at kat 544 00:30:05,760 --> 00:30:10,040 Speaker 3: Underscore Studios. The Idaho Masker is produced by Stephanie Leideger, 545 00:30:10,360 --> 00:30:14,960 Speaker 3: Gabriel Castillo, and me Courtney Armstrong. Editing and sound design 546 00:30:15,080 --> 00:30:19,280 Speaker 3: by Jeff Toois, Music by Jared Aston. The Idaho Masker 547 00:30:19,320 --> 00:30:22,920 Speaker 3: is a production of Kat's Studios and iHeartRadio. For more 548 00:30:22,960 --> 00:30:26,880 Speaker 3: podcasts like this, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or 549 00:30:26,920 --> 00:30:55,600 Speaker 3: wherever you listen to your favorite shows.