WEBVTT - Dick Cavett 0:00:00.360 --> 0:00:03.920 I'm Alec Baldwin, and here's the thing. Dick Cavitt's career 0:00:03.960 --> 0:00:08.160 in television spans nearly five decades. During that time, he's 0:00:08.200 --> 0:00:11.920 also acted in movies and on Broadway, hosted a radio show, 0:00:11.920 --> 0:00:15.640 and written several books. His latest, a memoir called Talk Show, 0:00:15.800 --> 0:00:20.439 came out last year. The Dick Cavott Show debuted in 0:00:20.520 --> 0:00:25.480 nineteen sixty eight. Here was a small town Nebraska boy 0:00:25.520 --> 0:00:30.720 with a Yale education. Cultured yet unintimidating, thoughtful, honestly, curious, 0:00:30.880 --> 0:00:36.120 and funny. He had a knack for gently driving the 0:00:36.200 --> 0:00:38.519 conversation to the heart of the matter while keeping his 0:00:38.640 --> 0:00:43.120 guests comfortable. Again, Oh my goodness, wouldn't it be ridiculous 0:00:43.159 --> 0:00:45.600 if you didn't. Cabot show could book the brightest and 0:00:45.640 --> 0:00:49.559 often the most reclusive celebrities of that time, Katherine Hepburn, 0:00:49.720 --> 0:00:54.400 John and Yoko, Groucho, Marks Orson, Wells, Truman, Capote. Cavitt 0:00:54.480 --> 0:00:59.160 himself was as admired as his guests. Robert, if one 0:00:59.160 --> 0:01:02.400 more person at told me how many times you've terrified interviewers, 0:01:02.440 --> 0:01:04.679 I wouldn't been able to do this. I don't feel 0:01:04.680 --> 0:01:09.120 it I terrify interviewers more or less terrifying me. W Renald, 0:01:09.319 --> 0:01:13.360 you don't mind my asking. It's that rude in Hollywood asks. Really, 0:01:13.480 --> 0:01:15.319 it's all right now you can ask me, you know, 0:01:15.360 --> 0:01:19.440 I mean, I mean my hair off, my teeth will 0:01:19.480 --> 0:01:22.560 come out. I couldn't didn't kiss me then when you 0:01:22.600 --> 0:01:25.240 came out. If I'm so well, let's see this is 0:01:25.280 --> 0:01:29.200 the third show. By the fifth show, we'll go to 0:01:29.400 --> 0:01:31.120 other A hell of a kiss when I come out. 0:01:34.640 --> 0:01:37.440 I've known Cabot for several years as a neighbor on 0:01:37.480 --> 0:01:40.959 Long Island. I visited him at his house. They're a 0:01:41.000 --> 0:01:45.200 place called tick Hall. You might take in the Cabot's 0:01:45.280 --> 0:01:49.480 house sits on a beautiful remote cliff overlooking the Atlantics. 0:01:51.240 --> 0:01:57.720 Riley a little neurotic. He Cabot has lived here for 0:01:57.720 --> 0:02:02.680 forty three years. For our listeners, that's hound you're hearing 0:02:02.760 --> 0:02:05.720 is the rattle of the ice tea being delivered into 0:02:05.800 --> 0:02:10.919 the parlor. Very attractive employee. Yeah, that's actually his wife, Martha. 0:02:11.120 --> 0:02:14.480 His first wife, Carrie Ny, died in two thousand and six. 0:02:15.160 --> 0:02:19.079 With the house Eddie and Puffy, Cabot got his start 0:02:19.120 --> 0:02:21.960 in show business writing for the Grates of early television. 0:02:22.280 --> 0:02:25.959 Jack Parr MERV Griffin and Johnny Carson. After a few 0:02:26.040 --> 0:02:28.680 years of this, he decided to start writing for himself, 0:02:28.880 --> 0:02:31.400 but first he had to figure out who he was. 0:02:32.040 --> 0:02:35.120 And there's a breakthrough point I had when I got 0:02:35.520 --> 0:02:40.160 what you might call a premise, and I've just refound 0:02:40.360 --> 0:02:45.440 thank god it lost letter from Grautchow saying I saw 0:02:45.480 --> 0:02:47.600 you on the MERV Griffin Show the other night and 0:02:47.720 --> 0:02:53.079 got that old feeling. Seriously, he may have said, I 0:02:53.120 --> 0:02:56.600 think you've struck a mother load with your idea of 0:02:56.639 --> 0:03:02.000 being the Nebraska yokol at yea, and that's the card 0:03:02.040 --> 0:03:05.360 you played. Well, yes, I started thinking, what you know? 0:03:05.400 --> 0:03:08.240 Always you here writers right, what they know? Well, what's 0:03:08.280 --> 0:03:10.040 my life? What do I know? I don't have any 0:03:10.240 --> 0:03:12.880 usual large nose. I don't have fund him that short 0:03:12.919 --> 0:03:16.000 and fat. I can't play off that attic him. But 0:03:16.120 --> 0:03:19.280 I did come from the Midwest and go to the 0:03:19.320 --> 0:03:24.280 Ivy League, totally contrasting worlds. There was no Ivy League 0:03:24.280 --> 0:03:29.079 in your family. None. All three of my parents I 0:03:29.120 --> 0:03:32.960 also had a stepmother were teachers and my dad taught 0:03:33.000 --> 0:03:37.160 high school. And and as he always reminded me, when 0:03:37.200 --> 0:03:40.600 I was going to spend some money on something, your 0:03:40.720 --> 0:03:45.480 mother and I in the depression had to decide whether 0:03:45.480 --> 0:03:48.440 it has spend a dime on a loaf of bread 0:03:49.560 --> 0:03:51.560 or if we could go to a movie with it. 0:03:54.080 --> 0:03:56.600 I can't believe that, But that's a depression there. That 0:03:56.680 --> 0:03:59.640 was my dad. Was it a semi rural or rural community? 0:03:59.720 --> 0:04:02.280 Quite quite? We're all yes, you walk the edge of 0:04:02.320 --> 0:04:05.920 town was a few feet in every direction. I think 0:04:05.960 --> 0:04:08.040 every time I go to comstock, I tried to picture 0:04:08.120 --> 0:04:13.080 where my dad maybe lived and taught, and but he 0:04:13.160 --> 0:04:16.960 was rewarded with nine hundred dollars a year. Now, what 0:04:17.120 --> 0:04:20.599 what was your relationship to conversation? Meaning, have you've always 0:04:20.640 --> 0:04:24.360 been the conversationalist back home in Nebraska? And then when 0:04:24.360 --> 0:04:26.560 you went to Yale and a month ago, on this 0:04:26.640 --> 0:04:28.839 table and I was going through old envelopes of stuff, 0:04:28.880 --> 0:04:33.599 I found three what do you call report cards from third, 0:04:33.760 --> 0:04:39.360 fourth and fifth grade Miss Gabus, Ms. Fuchs and Mrs Graham, 0:04:39.480 --> 0:04:41.760 And all three of them said, one might imagine how 0:04:41.800 --> 0:04:44.279 far Dick would get if he'd stopped talking. In glass, 0:04:44.560 --> 0:04:49.200 you've hit it. Dicks learned to control his talking is 0:04:49.360 --> 0:04:53.000 on two of them, and Dick mis learned to let 0:04:53.040 --> 0:04:57.559 others talk occasionally. One of the wittier ones put down. 0:04:58.120 --> 0:05:02.200 But you were always someone who was a gift you had, apparently. 0:05:02.600 --> 0:05:06.839 And did you go to Yale undergrad? You do graduate 0:05:06.839 --> 0:05:10.840 school as well, No, undergrad only. Sometimes I referred to 0:05:10.880 --> 0:05:14.800 as a drama school graduate. I wasn't. I took three 0:05:14.880 --> 0:05:17.520 courses in the drama school while I was an undergraduate, 0:05:18.000 --> 0:05:25.880 directing Miss Welch's speech class, Stage speaking its theory and practice, 0:05:26.560 --> 0:05:29.920 and a theater history class taught by a humorless German. 0:05:30.000 --> 0:05:32.320 If that isn't too reding. You mentioned his name when 0:05:32.320 --> 0:05:35.520 I saw what was the name? Alois Nuggler it was 0:05:35.839 --> 0:05:38.320 it was kind of good. He looked like Rex Harrison 0:05:39.400 --> 0:05:43.360 but spoke like Himmler. Who was my other favorite name? 0:05:43.400 --> 0:05:47.080 You told me the other day, Oh lah oh Orson Wells. Beautiful, 0:05:47.279 --> 0:05:50.280 beautiful girlfriend. I met in the right in that part 0:05:50.279 --> 0:05:53.520 of the plaza lobby that carry Grant pauses at in 0:05:53.560 --> 0:05:57.760 the beginning of North Benworthwest and Essential, And he said, Dick, 0:05:57.880 --> 0:06:05.400 this is my friend Aia Palin Casha Palin Cash. And 0:06:05.520 --> 0:06:08.160 I thought, I'm gonna remember that name as long as 0:06:08.440 --> 0:06:12.640 I can. God, I'd love to know the details of 0:06:12.760 --> 0:06:16.680 his life in all those years when he'd make a film, 0:06:16.720 --> 0:06:24.039 not quite finish it, move on, live off some countess somewhere, 0:06:24.200 --> 0:06:26.760 and then his next address would be in Spain, and 0:06:26.800 --> 0:06:30.839 the next one would be in Dunkirk, and God, what 0:06:30.960 --> 0:06:38.520 a life. Mad Strange wasted gigantic amount of talent. Obviously 0:06:38.520 --> 0:06:40.560 not totally wasted, because he did a lot of films. 0:06:40.640 --> 0:06:45.600 But in a doctor's office, I picked up a national, 0:06:45.720 --> 0:06:49.680 a New Republic, and it was an article that began. 0:06:50.600 --> 0:06:55.120 Someday theater historians will have to deal with the problem 0:06:55.160 --> 0:06:59.800 of what Marlon Brando and Orrison Wells did to their bodies. 0:07:01.440 --> 0:07:06.080 Any parallels their two careers, the wastedness, the bad choices, 0:07:07.000 --> 0:07:10.400 contempt for the business that they loved to express. When 0:07:10.400 --> 0:07:12.640 I was going to do a television show, I was 0:07:12.920 --> 0:07:15.080 ten years too old for the part. I was forty, 0:07:15.160 --> 0:07:17.840 and they want me to do Brick in Cantadahun Tim Roof. 0:07:17.920 --> 0:07:20.680 You were ten years too old to forty and bricks 0:07:20.680 --> 0:07:23.120 should be you know, hovering around thirty late twenties. So 0:07:23.160 --> 0:07:27.800 they wanted me to do this for CBS and have 0:07:27.920 --> 0:07:31.560 Brando played Big Daddy. So I contacted him and he says, 0:07:31.560 --> 0:07:33.720 when would you like to get together? I said, I'd 0:07:33.720 --> 0:07:35.600 like to get together with you this week, quite frankly, 0:07:35.600 --> 0:07:39.960 because I'm leaving for Africa, And he said, sure, come 0:07:40.000 --> 0:07:42.640 over the house on Thursday at one o'clock. I went 0:07:42.680 --> 0:07:47.000 to his house and I went to Mulholland Drive and 0:07:47.040 --> 0:07:49.720 had lunch with him for nearly four hours at his house. 0:07:50.080 --> 0:07:53.520 Talk about people who talk, and he talked about his 0:07:53.640 --> 0:07:56.640 weight gain and his physical problems. He talked about it 0:07:56.680 --> 0:07:59.400 like it was an air bag, like it just like 0:07:59.520 --> 0:08:02.080 one day, and it wasn't until he was morbidly obese 0:08:02.080 --> 0:08:04.960 did he say, well, maybe I'm not doing so well. 0:08:05.160 --> 0:08:07.240 But when you did the show with him, because I 0:08:07.280 --> 0:08:10.240 watched so many of your shows, he wasn't very terribly 0:08:10.240 --> 0:08:12.160 fat there. He had a gut. Yeah, he was a 0:08:12.200 --> 0:08:14.600 little blocky. But the funny think about him is there's 0:08:14.680 --> 0:08:17.480 later Brando, you know, the very end, and there's him 0:08:17.560 --> 0:08:21.160 with Larry King, and he's very playful and he's very childlike. 0:08:21.680 --> 0:08:23.920 But with you when he was on, he seemed very 0:08:23.920 --> 0:08:26.200 fueral on the show. Was he that way off camera? 0:08:26.400 --> 0:08:27.840 He seemed like he was going to throw a punch 0:08:27.880 --> 0:08:31.520 any minute now I know, And and the alternating with 0:08:32.679 --> 0:08:38.840 that million dollar grin that admitted he couldn't cut away 0:08:38.880 --> 0:08:42.480 from to do a reaction shop. Evenso in typnotized by 0:08:42.520 --> 0:08:47.120 that fabulous grand is uh, he seemed to other people 0:08:47.160 --> 0:08:49.440 said the show it seems like pulling teeth, and how 0:08:49.440 --> 0:08:52.320 do you bring the dreary Indians one forward? And all 0:08:52.360 --> 0:08:55.320 the stuff. It was a very difficult evening. And if 0:08:55.360 --> 0:08:57.480 I had it to do again, I didn't resist him 0:08:57.520 --> 0:09:01.200 any except at one point, well, I got a laugh 0:09:01.280 --> 0:09:03.360 that he didn't get until he heard the audience laugh. 0:09:03.800 --> 0:09:06.560 It looks like when I've seen it back, which was 0:09:07.280 --> 0:09:10.920 what about the success of the movie Godfather? And and 0:09:11.000 --> 0:09:16.920 he said, uh, we'll talk about movies, and the audience laughed. 0:09:18.080 --> 0:09:19.959 That's one thing he would talk to a big movie star. 0:09:20.080 --> 0:09:24.199 But he said, and then he grinned. He gave through 0:09:24.240 --> 0:09:27.440 that anomalous grin, like I know what that's must mean 0:09:27.520 --> 0:09:30.840 to you. So then I said, how about the book 0:09:30.880 --> 0:09:36.280 The god Father? And he knew to laugh before. And 0:09:36.320 --> 0:09:40.640 the other one was his belittling ice tea rattling belittling 0:09:40.760 --> 0:09:43.640 ever the of the art of acting. And now you 0:09:43.640 --> 0:09:46.160 know anybody can do it. You know, once he said 0:09:46.160 --> 0:09:48.280 to me, you know your mom said, who pete on 0:09:48.320 --> 0:09:50.000 the toilet seat? And you said I didn't do it. 0:09:50.440 --> 0:09:53.679 You're acting then. Yeah. I come into his house and 0:09:53.760 --> 0:09:55.880 he says, he says, and we're sitting there and I'm 0:09:55.920 --> 0:10:00.200 completely Numbah. He comes in the first you are. He 0:10:00.240 --> 0:10:02.080 comes in in a mumu and we're in his house. 0:10:02.080 --> 0:10:04.960 It's a very host senatory moment for me. He looks 0:10:05.040 --> 0:10:09.079 me and says, uh, you and I are like two 0:10:09.120 --> 0:10:13.480 dogs sniffing each other right now. And he says, I'd 0:10:13.480 --> 0:10:16.720 like to make an arrangement with you, in agreement with you, 0:10:16.720 --> 0:10:20.840 where you say whatever you want to say and ask 0:10:20.920 --> 0:10:22.880 me whatever you want to ask me, and I'll say 0:10:22.920 --> 0:10:25.240 whatever I want to say, and I'll ask you whatever 0:10:25.320 --> 0:10:27.640 I want to ask. You will just talk about whatever 0:10:27.720 --> 0:10:29.959 we want to talk about. Little make us feel that 0:10:30.320 --> 0:10:32.760 that is so him. Did he ever do any of 0:10:32.800 --> 0:10:37.520 his little upsmanship things like saying, why are you holding 0:10:37.559 --> 0:10:42.360 your left hand and your right hand like that? I say, 0:10:42.360 --> 0:10:45.040 I don't know, well, why did you move your head 0:10:45.200 --> 0:10:48.600 and to the side of your head like that? But 0:10:48.640 --> 0:10:51.160 I know what you mean. When you first mate him, 0:10:51.360 --> 0:10:53.560 if you can stop the voice in your head saying, 0:10:53.640 --> 0:10:57.000 Jesus Christ, this is Marlon Brando that I'm sitting with 0:10:57.240 --> 0:11:01.400 and he's so aware that my first talk with him 0:11:01.440 --> 0:11:05.880 was on the phone where we are now. In fact, 0:11:06.360 --> 0:11:09.040 he called I've told you what at a certain time, 0:11:10.880 --> 0:11:16.400 and we talked with the sun about fifteen degrees above 0:11:16.440 --> 0:11:21.840 the horizon until well after the moon had risen. With 0:11:21.920 --> 0:11:25.679 him as an example, who are the ones who you 0:11:25.720 --> 0:11:30.840 were surprised the way it went? Oh? Good or bad? Yeah? 0:11:31.040 --> 0:11:35.000 The bad. The good was of course always welcome. And 0:11:35.240 --> 0:11:38.800 I had no reason to think that James Mason would 0:11:38.880 --> 0:11:40.880 be the first person I ever had on the show 0:11:41.040 --> 0:11:45.080 in my daytime show who was so enchantingly charming, talking 0:11:45.679 --> 0:11:49.760 without any sense of putting on the charm that I 0:11:49.800 --> 0:11:53.600 missed all signals to go to commercial. And it was 0:11:53.640 --> 0:11:58.760 the first time that I broke through reading my notes 0:11:58.880 --> 0:12:02.400 off to the guest, barely able to hear what they 0:12:02.440 --> 0:12:05.920 were saying for reasons of nerves and signals that I 0:12:06.040 --> 0:12:08.400 just missed over their shoulder, And oh my god, someone 0:12:08.480 --> 0:12:11.120 led her to card and took it back, and oh god, 0:12:11.160 --> 0:12:15.160 the guests lips have stopped moving. Um, do you have 0:12:15.240 --> 0:12:22.360 any hobbies? When it goes badly, it goes. The ones 0:12:22.440 --> 0:12:28.080 who went badly were invariably not manny, fortunately, and nobody 0:12:28.200 --> 0:12:32.480 just died on me, except whoever the lout was, who 0:12:32.559 --> 0:12:35.200 was the male lead in the movies A Brisky Point 0:12:37.160 --> 0:12:43.120 and his non verbal girlfriend who were inflicted on me 0:12:43.240 --> 0:12:46.160 once however, many years ago. As a brisky Point came out, 0:12:47.160 --> 0:12:51.720 he was monosyllabic and maybe thought it was funny. So 0:12:51.800 --> 0:12:53.520 I don't know if it's a good movie or not. 0:12:58.120 --> 0:13:02.600 Probably funny. Getting desperate and I said, I said, wait, 0:13:02.640 --> 0:13:05.320 I read that you've got in a fight backstage with somebody, 0:13:05.440 --> 0:13:11.640 first fight in a television studio. Yeah, we do you 0:13:11.640 --> 0:13:17.760 want to know about? I said, details, forcing him to 0:13:17.800 --> 0:13:20.520 talk a little later. Now, when this sort of thing 0:13:20.559 --> 0:13:23.520 happens is one thing he must always do. Be sure 0:13:23.559 --> 0:13:27.800 you have mel Brooks sitting there. Brooks was here and 0:13:27.880 --> 0:13:33.040 it was uh. One day we were we found a 0:13:34.920 --> 0:13:43.600 uh the guy says, we found a a bread box something. No, Melaniell. 0:13:46.960 --> 0:13:52.600 The disappointing guests were writers. Now I loved having writers on. 0:13:52.840 --> 0:13:58.199 I did Boys dream Some boys dreams up taken Chiever 0:13:58.360 --> 0:14:03.320 on the same show, Chiever separately, Updike separately, saw Bellow. 0:14:03.360 --> 0:14:05.880 I had them, I started to say, I had them 0:14:05.880 --> 0:14:08.480 all who didn't cut it as a talk show, but 0:14:08.679 --> 0:14:12.960 The thing was that, Yeah, you couldn't believe that this 0:14:13.400 --> 0:14:20.479 semi articulate person having trouble with vocabulary, seemingly and just outlandish, 0:14:20.920 --> 0:14:25.800 unbelievable thing had written that glorious prize winning prose that 0:14:25.880 --> 0:14:30.760 you read. Now. The exceptions were, of course, Manny and Truman, Capodi, 0:14:31.520 --> 0:14:36.880 questionably accurate but entertaining guests. At all times. You had 0:14:36.920 --> 0:14:40.080 Olivia on the show. Correct. Yes, it was a ninety 0:14:40.080 --> 0:14:44.600 minutes show in London. And then I did him again 0:14:45.320 --> 0:14:49.840 in New York, um in the Windham Hotel with with 0:14:49.960 --> 0:14:55.000 lady Olivier John playwright, and so I got two with Olivier. Um, 0:14:55.360 --> 0:15:00.200 I was that well it was it was fine. He 0:15:00.440 --> 0:15:04.360 what was so interesting about meeting was fine. It was 0:15:04.400 --> 0:15:06.680 the opposite of bad, I think was what I was drinking. 0:15:07.720 --> 0:15:11.720 He can't pick on a guy's choice of words. I 0:15:11.800 --> 0:15:14.320 swore to God recently that I would never say the 0:15:14.320 --> 0:15:17.400 word awesome in my life. And if we could only 0:15:17.440 --> 0:15:21.000 make that true everyone in the world, that would be swell. 0:15:21.440 --> 0:15:27.760 That can go along with iconic and um closure and 0:15:28.120 --> 0:15:32.560 like of course and a few others. Amazing. We all 0:15:32.600 --> 0:15:35.080 are saying amazing all the time. Now I got five 0:15:35.120 --> 0:15:40.520 amazings and watching morning television for about forty minutes the 0:15:40.560 --> 0:15:45.160 other day. Amazing guests, amazing guest we have, It's amazing script. 0:15:45.200 --> 0:15:50.000 It's just amazing. I was amazed. But but Olivia was terrific, 0:15:50.040 --> 0:15:54.080 and he was such a clown afterwards, not on the air. 0:15:54.160 --> 0:15:56.560 He could have done so more on the air and 0:15:56.600 --> 0:15:59.040 it would have been wonderful. I think I was probably 0:15:59.080 --> 0:16:02.240 a little too in. I didn't say awesome to get 0:16:02.240 --> 0:16:04.320 all the fun out of him that I later learned 0:16:04.400 --> 0:16:20.360 is in there. This is Alec Baldwin, and you're listening 0:16:20.360 --> 0:16:23.800 to here's the Thing coming up more from my conversation 0:16:24.000 --> 0:16:46.440 with Dick Cavitt. I'm Alec Baldwin and you're listening to 0:16:46.560 --> 0:16:50.200 Here's the Thing. I'm sipping iced tea and chatting with 0:16:50.280 --> 0:16:52.600 Dick Kevin. Who were the people today that you sit 0:16:52.640 --> 0:16:54.640 there and say, God, if I was doing it now, 0:16:55.360 --> 0:16:57.520 that seemed like it could be fun. I almost wish 0:16:57.520 --> 0:17:01.680 you hadn't asked me there, because here's how that thought 0:17:01.840 --> 0:17:06.080 occurred to me. I was on a radio show plugging 0:17:06.080 --> 0:17:10.280 the Book of It was Mark Simon, and he said this, 0:17:10.800 --> 0:17:16.240 you must get cabots DVDs. Uh, there's one called Hollywood 0:17:16.280 --> 0:17:18.439 Grates and and may he may have said, tell us 0:17:18.480 --> 0:17:21.800 who's on it? And I thought, put a dirty trick. 0:17:21.840 --> 0:17:23.960 I won't be able to think of two of them now. 0:17:24.600 --> 0:17:27.120 But I had it sitting there on my messy table, 0:17:27.920 --> 0:17:31.880 and here's who's on it. It has all of Katherine Hepburn, 0:17:32.119 --> 0:17:41.760 Betty Davis, fred As Stair, Kirk Douglas, Lucille Ball, Frank Capra. 0:17:42.480 --> 0:17:46.360 No coward, coward isn't on that one. Damnit? That needs 0:17:46.359 --> 0:17:51.959 a zeppelin to Robert mitchum Orson Wells, John Houston and 0:17:52.000 --> 0:17:56.760 Marlon Brando. And I looked at this that I mentioned 0:17:56.800 --> 0:18:02.680 Lucille Ball, and I thought two things. Um ay am 0:18:02.720 --> 0:18:06.520 I the only one in this cover of this box 0:18:06.560 --> 0:18:12.600 who's alive? No Kirk Douglas is. But what I really 0:18:12.640 --> 0:18:16.800 thought was who are their counterparts? Now? What list of 0:18:16.960 --> 0:18:22.399 today's grades would include that many redwoods? Even in politics, 0:18:22.520 --> 0:18:25.359 politics writing? Are there anybody authors? And I think we 0:18:25.440 --> 0:18:29.120 live in an age of increasing mediocrity? So you don't 0:18:29.119 --> 0:18:30.720 sit there and say, I would love to have Richard 0:18:30.760 --> 0:18:33.159 Holbrook on. I'd love to have Oh there are some, 0:18:33.359 --> 0:18:37.879 There are plenty of people. Yeah, God, yes, Meryl Streep 0:18:38.840 --> 0:18:42.639 belongs to anybody's list of grades soon and and and, 0:18:45.000 --> 0:18:50.919 but I don't think quite so many achieve. Maybe you 0:18:50.960 --> 0:18:54.080 can't be big in the way those people were, these 0:18:54.320 --> 0:18:57.720 giant people, who are do they grow redwoods anymore? Do 0:18:57.800 --> 0:19:05.640 they just grow with smaller Sequali is the finest cobas converse. Yeah. Well, 0:19:05.640 --> 0:19:07.199 the media is like a train, you know. I mean 0:19:07.240 --> 0:19:09.480 it used to be a train was a glamorous, gleaming 0:19:09.520 --> 0:19:12.399 thing that wasn't up. Now a train is a filthy 0:19:12.400 --> 0:19:15.760 That's when you get in when you can't raise the 0:19:15.880 --> 0:19:18.600 question completely outside show business. But when I was a 0:19:18.680 --> 0:19:22.240 kid at marveled that Japan had a two hundred mile 0:19:22.320 --> 0:19:26.400 an hour the Shinkuns and bullet train, and we still 0:19:26.480 --> 0:19:30.119 have the Long Island Railroad. And I'm fifty years older. Yeah, 0:19:30.160 --> 0:19:36.159 it's a great country though, wasn't it otherwise? America? Yes, you, um, 0:19:36.240 --> 0:19:40.680 you obviously have had your difficulties and you've talked about 0:19:40.680 --> 0:19:43.560 I know we're looking over your shows like that's somebody else. 0:19:44.080 --> 0:19:46.560 And I know for me, when I was getting divorced 0:19:46.600 --> 0:19:49.720 and I was in the the real native of the 0:19:49.720 --> 0:19:54.360 whole experience, I feel horrible. Everybody gets down, everybody has 0:19:54.400 --> 0:19:57.280 the blues. Everybody suffers losses. You can not only have 0:19:57.320 --> 0:20:00.480 a bad game, you can have a bad season. But 0:20:00.520 --> 0:20:04.240 then when do you decide that you need help from 0:20:04.280 --> 0:20:09.399 someone clinically? Since memory is affected by depression, there are 0:20:09.440 --> 0:20:11.720 details like that. They're not absolutely sure, but I know. 0:20:11.800 --> 0:20:14.760 The one time I knew was that when I boarded 0:20:14.760 --> 0:20:17.159 the concorde and realized I'm not going to be this 0:20:17.280 --> 0:20:21.040 sick in another country and got off and I called 0:20:21.119 --> 0:20:24.320 my shrink and he said, well, you can either get 0:20:24.359 --> 0:20:28.600 on the next plane or go to Colombia. And my 0:20:28.680 --> 0:20:31.600 staff was already over there, and I just said, I 0:20:31.640 --> 0:20:36.920 can't go away feeling this horrible. A stewardess took one 0:20:36.960 --> 0:20:38.640 look at me and said you want to get off, 0:20:39.800 --> 0:20:43.879 and I said yeah, I mean she saw whatever it was, 0:20:43.960 --> 0:20:46.240 it was clear that'll bring it. Me ask you this, 0:20:46.680 --> 0:20:49.520 Did you work during any of this? Were you able 0:20:49.520 --> 0:20:54.320 to work? I had to work to work. And I 0:20:54.359 --> 0:20:56.920 can tell you a quickie that involves two people we've 0:20:56.960 --> 0:21:01.240 already named. I was at the Brand Residents you might 0:21:01.280 --> 0:21:07.560 have just left one day and I told him about 0:21:08.160 --> 0:21:11.520 taking a show with Olivier in the Window hotel or PBS, 0:21:12.600 --> 0:21:17.040 and I said, I was so depressed while doing it, 0:21:18.359 --> 0:21:22.679 and it's being Olivier made me realize how depressed I was, 0:21:23.400 --> 0:21:25.560 because when I got to the hotel and they took 0:21:25.600 --> 0:21:27.920 me to a room and we were going to tap 0:21:28.000 --> 0:21:31.119 in the room up above, I thought, Laurence Olivier is 0:21:31.200 --> 0:21:34.080 one story above me, and I don't give a damn. 0:21:34.920 --> 0:21:37.679 I just want to go home and get under the rug. 0:21:39.160 --> 0:21:42.720 And there are some cue cards. What do they say, 0:21:43.160 --> 0:21:46.240 I'll start it over again? How can they be so 0:21:46.400 --> 0:21:48.760 cruel to get me out of bed and to do this? 0:21:50.040 --> 0:21:53.720 And sitting there with the Olivier's having read it Pumpter 0:21:54.880 --> 0:22:01.320 cue card introduction, the chat started and I had some 0:22:01.520 --> 0:22:06.040 notes off him, but I thought, this is awful. They're 0:22:06.040 --> 0:22:08.080 going to come over any moment and say, Dick, it's 0:22:08.080 --> 0:22:11.640 all right. We'll send them home, or we will send 0:22:11.640 --> 0:22:14.199 you home and their home. You know, we'll get them 0:22:14.200 --> 0:22:16.160 back on another day. This is obviously not a good 0:22:16.240 --> 0:22:18.959 day for you. They thought. Rushing through my head was 0:22:19.200 --> 0:22:23.600 they can see I am nuts. My brain is cracked. 0:22:23.760 --> 0:22:26.760 They can see it. I must be taking twenty second 0:22:26.840 --> 0:22:30.919 pauses and when they speak until I do, and I 0:22:31.000 --> 0:22:34.080 must be just hanging there my head A better lips 0:22:34.160 --> 0:22:38.000 raised my head a little and Olivier is quite quite 0:22:38.080 --> 0:22:41.320 smart enough in the psychology of performing and so on 0:22:41.480 --> 0:22:44.600 to know that he's kind of ding bad on his hands, 0:22:45.320 --> 0:22:50.600 and this is just yeah. I hope Rob and my 0:22:51.640 --> 0:22:54.560 my producer, will come over and say it's all right. 0:22:55.359 --> 0:22:59.000 But I realized I had finished it, and I was 0:22:59.040 --> 0:23:02.840 telling Brando that, and he said, I said, how awful 0:23:02.960 --> 0:23:04.640 was And he said, to the genter sly that show. 0:23:06.040 --> 0:23:09.800 I said, oh god, you're kidding. No, dont me a favor, 0:23:10.560 --> 0:23:15.040 go home and look at it, Saffy year later, well longer. 0:23:15.080 --> 0:23:18.840 I was well then, So I went home and looked 0:23:18.840 --> 0:23:22.359 at it, and I was fine. There were no pauses. 0:23:22.800 --> 0:23:26.439 And I saw him again and reported that to him. 0:23:26.640 --> 0:23:29.000 I said, how did you know what is that? I 0:23:29.040 --> 0:23:32.480 didn't have hesitations. I came right in. I looked interested, 0:23:32.640 --> 0:23:36.360 which I wasn't. My eyes were sparkling, which I were 0:23:36.400 --> 0:23:38.960 no reason. And I looked like I was having the 0:23:39.000 --> 0:23:42.280 best time with the Olivier's anyone could have with anybody. 0:23:42.640 --> 0:23:46.199 He said, the automatic pilot. I've heard the resort to 0:23:46.280 --> 0:23:51.800 it A lot takes over. So had I stayed at 0:23:51.840 --> 0:23:54.359 home that day and not taped the Olivier's, I would 0:23:54.359 --> 0:23:59.159 have stayed in bed and could not. If I had 0:23:59.160 --> 0:24:03.320 been taped there, I have looked good. But some part 0:24:03.359 --> 0:24:07.919 of us who are in the business something won't let you, 0:24:08.280 --> 0:24:12.399 some crazy way be a total mess while you're working. Well, 0:24:12.400 --> 0:24:14.560 there's two of us, Yeah, we have too, so those 0:24:14.560 --> 0:24:18.080 two sides. I saw it with Judy Garland, who was 0:24:18.240 --> 0:24:22.359 I think on my show for her last television appearance, 0:24:22.840 --> 0:24:26.600 the sixty eight daytime show. ABC erased them all used 0:24:26.600 --> 0:24:28.960 them to tape. Let's make a deal. It might be 0:24:29.080 --> 0:24:32.840 there's somebody has a bumpy home tape of that. She 0:24:33.160 --> 0:24:35.959 was so wonderful. You talk about these tapes, by the way, 0:24:35.960 --> 0:24:37.720 I want to get back to the you know whatever. 0:24:37.760 --> 0:24:39.760 You talk about these tapes and you got the rights 0:24:39.760 --> 0:24:44.359 to the ABC. There's some several versions of what really happened. 0:24:44.359 --> 0:24:50.760 I just remember being told one day, Dick, they they're 0:24:50.800 --> 0:24:55.399 going to either reuse the tapes or erase them or 0:24:55.600 --> 0:25:00.080 dump them. When you see what tapes that once to the 0:25:00.040 --> 0:25:04.199 the ABC show and you can have them if you 0:25:04.280 --> 0:25:09.080 want to, for sixty dollars each. And I thought, well, 0:25:09.119 --> 0:25:13.159 that's a ludicrous amount of money. And a guy on 0:25:13.280 --> 0:25:17.240 my staff unfortunately, but he did it quite well. I 0:25:17.359 --> 0:25:19.720 went through them and eliminated those he thought would never 0:25:19.760 --> 0:25:21.840 be of any interest again. And it turned out some 0:25:21.920 --> 0:25:25.240 of them would have been. But I have most all 0:25:25.280 --> 0:25:27.560 of them. Thank god he didn't rely on you for 0:25:27.600 --> 0:25:29.159 that choice, because you would have said him, well, you 0:25:29.160 --> 0:25:32.320 can get rid of the Olivier because I was zunks throughout. Yeah, 0:25:32.960 --> 0:25:35.159 the throw out that one I was fine for the 0:25:35.200 --> 0:25:39.320 first they be able. When you talk about those ABC tapes, 0:25:39.960 --> 0:25:44.080 I in my mind visualize the guys throwing the sled 0:25:44.160 --> 0:25:47.440 on the fire, you know, burning. I see these guys 0:25:47.480 --> 0:25:48.800 with a box attempt. What are we supposed to do 0:25:48.840 --> 0:25:51.399 with these tapes? Charlie? Yeah, somebody said, I don't know 0:25:51.480 --> 0:25:54.000 that the Cabin show. I mean, what the hell is that? 0:25:54.920 --> 0:26:02.119 Ray said, throw it in the fire. You're too realistic? Loss, 0:26:02.680 --> 0:26:05.800 you know, the Cent of Bitches erased most of Johnny 0:26:05.800 --> 0:26:09.480 Carson's New York shows years of the number which I 0:26:09.520 --> 0:26:13.480 was on. I'd love to see them. What's your relationship 0:26:13.640 --> 0:26:15.639 to television now we really have it? You watch is 0:26:15.760 --> 0:26:21.000 real than you like? Yeah, and so I don't associate 0:26:21.560 --> 0:26:28.760 television with entertainment very much. Um and total three hundred 0:26:28.800 --> 0:26:35.840