1 00:00:00,360 --> 00:00:03,920 Speaker 1: I'm Alec Baldwin, and here's the thing. Dick Cavitt's career 2 00:00:03,960 --> 00:00:08,160 Speaker 1: in television spans nearly five decades. During that time, he's 3 00:00:08,200 --> 00:00:11,920 Speaker 1: also acted in movies and on Broadway, hosted a radio show, 4 00:00:11,920 --> 00:00:15,640 Speaker 1: and written several books. His latest, a memoir called Talk Show, 5 00:00:15,800 --> 00:00:20,439 Speaker 1: came out last year. The Dick Cavott Show debuted in 6 00:00:20,520 --> 00:00:25,480 Speaker 1: nineteen sixty eight. Here was a small town Nebraska boy 7 00:00:25,520 --> 00:00:30,720 Speaker 1: with a Yale education. Cultured yet unintimidating, thoughtful, honestly, curious, 8 00:00:30,880 --> 00:00:36,120 Speaker 1: and funny. He had a knack for gently driving the 9 00:00:36,200 --> 00:00:38,519 Speaker 1: conversation to the heart of the matter while keeping his 10 00:00:38,640 --> 00:00:43,120 Speaker 1: guests comfortable. Again, Oh my goodness, wouldn't it be ridiculous 11 00:00:43,159 --> 00:00:45,600 Speaker 1: if you didn't. Cabot show could book the brightest and 12 00:00:45,640 --> 00:00:49,559 Speaker 1: often the most reclusive celebrities of that time, Katherine Hepburn, 13 00:00:49,720 --> 00:00:54,400 Speaker 1: John and Yoko, Groucho, Marks Orson, Wells, Truman, Capote. Cavitt 14 00:00:54,480 --> 00:00:59,160 Speaker 1: himself was as admired as his guests. Robert, if one 15 00:00:59,160 --> 00:01:02,400 Speaker 1: more person at told me how many times you've terrified interviewers, 16 00:01:02,440 --> 00:01:04,679 Speaker 1: I wouldn't been able to do this. I don't feel 17 00:01:04,680 --> 00:01:09,120 Speaker 1: it I terrify interviewers more or less terrifying me. W Renald, 18 00:01:09,319 --> 00:01:13,360 Speaker 1: you don't mind my asking. It's that rude in Hollywood asks. Really, 19 00:01:13,480 --> 00:01:15,319 Speaker 1: it's all right now you can ask me, you know, 20 00:01:15,360 --> 00:01:19,440 Speaker 1: I mean, I mean my hair off, my teeth will 21 00:01:19,480 --> 00:01:22,560 Speaker 1: come out. I couldn't didn't kiss me then when you 22 00:01:22,600 --> 00:01:25,240 Speaker 1: came out. If I'm so well, let's see this is 23 00:01:25,280 --> 00:01:29,200 Speaker 1: the third show. By the fifth show, we'll go to 24 00:01:29,400 --> 00:01:31,120 Speaker 1: other A hell of a kiss when I come out. 25 00:01:34,640 --> 00:01:37,440 Speaker 1: I've known Cabot for several years as a neighbor on 26 00:01:37,480 --> 00:01:40,959 Speaker 1: Long Island. I visited him at his house. They're a 27 00:01:41,000 --> 00:01:45,200 Speaker 1: place called tick Hall. You might take in the Cabot's 28 00:01:45,280 --> 00:01:49,480 Speaker 1: house sits on a beautiful remote cliff overlooking the Atlantics. 29 00:01:51,240 --> 00:01:57,720 Speaker 1: Riley a little neurotic. He Cabot has lived here for 30 00:01:57,720 --> 00:02:02,680 Speaker 1: forty three years. For our listeners, that's hound you're hearing 31 00:02:02,760 --> 00:02:05,720 Speaker 1: is the rattle of the ice tea being delivered into 32 00:02:05,800 --> 00:02:10,919 Speaker 1: the parlor. Very attractive employee. Yeah, that's actually his wife, Martha. 33 00:02:11,120 --> 00:02:14,480 Speaker 1: His first wife, Carrie Ny, died in two thousand and six. 34 00:02:15,160 --> 00:02:19,079 Speaker 1: With the house Eddie and Puffy, Cabot got his start 35 00:02:19,120 --> 00:02:21,960 Speaker 1: in show business writing for the Grates of early television. 36 00:02:22,280 --> 00:02:25,959 Speaker 1: Jack Parr MERV Griffin and Johnny Carson. After a few 37 00:02:26,040 --> 00:02:28,680 Speaker 1: years of this, he decided to start writing for himself, 38 00:02:28,880 --> 00:02:31,400 Speaker 1: but first he had to figure out who he was. 39 00:02:32,040 --> 00:02:35,120 Speaker 1: And there's a breakthrough point I had when I got 40 00:02:35,520 --> 00:02:40,160 Speaker 1: what you might call a premise, and I've just refound 41 00:02:40,360 --> 00:02:45,440 Speaker 1: thank god it lost letter from Grautchow saying I saw 42 00:02:45,480 --> 00:02:47,600 Speaker 1: you on the MERV Griffin Show the other night and 43 00:02:47,720 --> 00:02:53,079 Speaker 1: got that old feeling. Seriously, he may have said, I 44 00:02:53,120 --> 00:02:56,600 Speaker 1: think you've struck a mother load with your idea of 45 00:02:56,639 --> 00:03:02,000 Speaker 1: being the Nebraska yokol at yea, and that's the card 46 00:03:02,040 --> 00:03:05,360 Speaker 1: you played. Well, yes, I started thinking, what you know? 47 00:03:05,400 --> 00:03:08,240 Speaker 1: Always you here writers right, what they know? Well, what's 48 00:03:08,280 --> 00:03:10,040 Speaker 1: my life? What do I know? I don't have any 49 00:03:10,240 --> 00:03:12,880 Speaker 1: usual large nose. I don't have fund him that short 50 00:03:12,919 --> 00:03:16,000 Speaker 1: and fat. I can't play off that attic him. But 51 00:03:16,120 --> 00:03:19,280 Speaker 1: I did come from the Midwest and go to the 52 00:03:19,320 --> 00:03:24,280 Speaker 1: Ivy League, totally contrasting worlds. There was no Ivy League 53 00:03:24,280 --> 00:03:29,079 Speaker 1: in your family. None. All three of my parents I 54 00:03:29,120 --> 00:03:32,960 Speaker 1: also had a stepmother were teachers and my dad taught 55 00:03:33,000 --> 00:03:37,160 Speaker 1: high school. And and as he always reminded me, when 56 00:03:37,200 --> 00:03:40,600 Speaker 1: I was going to spend some money on something, your 57 00:03:40,720 --> 00:03:45,480 Speaker 1: mother and I in the depression had to decide whether 58 00:03:45,480 --> 00:03:48,440 Speaker 1: it has spend a dime on a loaf of bread 59 00:03:49,560 --> 00:03:51,560 Speaker 1: or if we could go to a movie with it. 60 00:03:54,080 --> 00:03:56,600 Speaker 1: I can't believe that, But that's a depression there. That 61 00:03:56,680 --> 00:03:59,640 Speaker 1: was my dad. Was it a semi rural or rural community? 62 00:03:59,720 --> 00:04:02,280 Speaker 1: Quite quite? We're all yes, you walk the edge of 63 00:04:02,320 --> 00:04:05,920 Speaker 1: town was a few feet in every direction. I think 64 00:04:05,960 --> 00:04:08,040 Speaker 1: every time I go to comstock, I tried to picture 65 00:04:08,120 --> 00:04:13,080 Speaker 1: where my dad maybe lived and taught, and but he 66 00:04:13,160 --> 00:04:16,960 Speaker 1: was rewarded with nine hundred dollars a year. Now, what 67 00:04:17,120 --> 00:04:20,599 Speaker 1: what was your relationship to conversation? Meaning, have you've always 68 00:04:20,640 --> 00:04:24,360 Speaker 1: been the conversationalist back home in Nebraska? And then when 69 00:04:24,360 --> 00:04:26,560 Speaker 1: you went to Yale and a month ago, on this 70 00:04:26,640 --> 00:04:28,839 Speaker 1: table and I was going through old envelopes of stuff, 71 00:04:28,880 --> 00:04:33,599 Speaker 1: I found three what do you call report cards from third, 72 00:04:33,760 --> 00:04:39,360 Speaker 1: fourth and fifth grade Miss Gabus, Ms. Fuchs and Mrs Graham, 73 00:04:39,480 --> 00:04:41,760 Speaker 1: And all three of them said, one might imagine how 74 00:04:41,800 --> 00:04:44,279 Speaker 1: far Dick would get if he'd stopped talking. In glass, 75 00:04:44,560 --> 00:04:49,200 Speaker 1: you've hit it. Dicks learned to control his talking is 76 00:04:49,360 --> 00:04:53,000 Speaker 1: on two of them, and Dick mis learned to let 77 00:04:53,040 --> 00:04:57,559 Speaker 1: others talk occasionally. One of the wittier ones put down. 78 00:04:58,120 --> 00:05:02,200 Speaker 1: But you were always someone who was a gift you had, apparently. 79 00:05:02,600 --> 00:05:06,839 Speaker 1: And did you go to Yale undergrad? You do graduate 80 00:05:06,839 --> 00:05:10,840 Speaker 1: school as well, No, undergrad only. Sometimes I referred to 81 00:05:10,880 --> 00:05:14,800 Speaker 1: as a drama school graduate. I wasn't. I took three 82 00:05:14,880 --> 00:05:17,520 Speaker 1: courses in the drama school while I was an undergraduate, 83 00:05:18,000 --> 00:05:25,880 Speaker 1: directing Miss Welch's speech class, Stage speaking its theory and practice, 84 00:05:26,560 --> 00:05:29,920 Speaker 1: and a theater history class taught by a humorless German. 85 00:05:30,000 --> 00:05:32,320 Speaker 1: If that isn't too reding. You mentioned his name when 86 00:05:32,320 --> 00:05:35,520 Speaker 1: I saw what was the name? Alois Nuggler it was 87 00:05:35,839 --> 00:05:38,320 Speaker 1: it was kind of good. He looked like Rex Harrison 88 00:05:39,400 --> 00:05:43,360 Speaker 1: but spoke like Himmler. Who was my other favorite name? 89 00:05:43,400 --> 00:05:47,080 Speaker 1: You told me the other day, Oh lah oh Orson Wells. Beautiful, 90 00:05:47,279 --> 00:05:50,280 Speaker 1: beautiful girlfriend. I met in the right in that part 91 00:05:50,279 --> 00:05:53,520 Speaker 1: of the plaza lobby that carry Grant pauses at in 92 00:05:53,560 --> 00:05:57,760 Speaker 1: the beginning of North Benworthwest and Essential, And he said, Dick, 93 00:05:57,880 --> 00:06:05,400 Speaker 1: this is my friend Aia Palin Casha Palin Cash. And 94 00:06:05,520 --> 00:06:08,160 Speaker 1: I thought, I'm gonna remember that name as long as 95 00:06:08,440 --> 00:06:12,640 Speaker 1: I can. God, I'd love to know the details of 96 00:06:12,760 --> 00:06:16,680 Speaker 1: his life in all those years when he'd make a film, 97 00:06:16,720 --> 00:06:24,039 Speaker 1: not quite finish it, move on, live off some countess somewhere, 98 00:06:24,200 --> 00:06:26,760 Speaker 1: and then his next address would be in Spain, and 99 00:06:26,800 --> 00:06:30,839 Speaker 1: the next one would be in Dunkirk, and God, what 100 00:06:30,960 --> 00:06:38,520 Speaker 1: a life. Mad Strange wasted gigantic amount of talent. Obviously 101 00:06:38,520 --> 00:06:40,560 Speaker 1: not totally wasted, because he did a lot of films. 102 00:06:40,640 --> 00:06:45,600 Speaker 1: But in a doctor's office, I picked up a national, 103 00:06:45,720 --> 00:06:49,680 Speaker 1: a New Republic, and it was an article that began. 104 00:06:50,600 --> 00:06:55,120 Speaker 1: Someday theater historians will have to deal with the problem 105 00:06:55,160 --> 00:06:59,800 Speaker 1: of what Marlon Brando and Orrison Wells did to their bodies. 106 00:07:01,440 --> 00:07:06,080 Speaker 1: Any parallels their two careers, the wastedness, the bad choices, 107 00:07:07,000 --> 00:07:10,400 Speaker 1: contempt for the business that they loved to express. When 108 00:07:10,400 --> 00:07:12,640 Speaker 1: I was going to do a television show, I was 109 00:07:12,920 --> 00:07:15,080 Speaker 1: ten years too old for the part. I was forty, 110 00:07:15,160 --> 00:07:17,840 Speaker 1: and they want me to do Brick in Cantadahun Tim Roof. 111 00:07:17,920 --> 00:07:20,680 Speaker 1: You were ten years too old to forty and bricks 112 00:07:20,680 --> 00:07:23,120 Speaker 1: should be you know, hovering around thirty late twenties. So 113 00:07:23,160 --> 00:07:27,800 Speaker 1: they wanted me to do this for CBS and have 114 00:07:27,920 --> 00:07:31,560 Speaker 1: Brando played Big Daddy. So I contacted him and he says, 115 00:07:31,560 --> 00:07:33,720 Speaker 1: when would you like to get together? I said, I'd 116 00:07:33,720 --> 00:07:35,600 Speaker 1: like to get together with you this week, quite frankly, 117 00:07:35,600 --> 00:07:39,960 Speaker 1: because I'm leaving for Africa, And he said, sure, come 118 00:07:40,000 --> 00:07:42,640 Speaker 1: over the house on Thursday at one o'clock. I went 119 00:07:42,680 --> 00:07:47,000 Speaker 1: to his house and I went to Mulholland Drive and 120 00:07:47,040 --> 00:07:49,720 Speaker 1: had lunch with him for nearly four hours at his house. 121 00:07:50,080 --> 00:07:53,520 Speaker 1: Talk about people who talk, and he talked about his 122 00:07:53,640 --> 00:07:56,640 Speaker 1: weight gain and his physical problems. He talked about it 123 00:07:56,680 --> 00:07:59,400 Speaker 1: like it was an air bag, like it just like 124 00:07:59,520 --> 00:08:02,080 Speaker 1: one day, and it wasn't until he was morbidly obese 125 00:08:02,080 --> 00:08:04,960 Speaker 1: did he say, well, maybe I'm not doing so well. 126 00:08:05,160 --> 00:08:07,240 Speaker 1: But when you did the show with him, because I 127 00:08:07,280 --> 00:08:10,240 Speaker 1: watched so many of your shows, he wasn't very terribly 128 00:08:10,240 --> 00:08:12,160 Speaker 1: fat there. He had a gut. Yeah, he was a 129 00:08:12,200 --> 00:08:14,600 Speaker 1: little blocky. But the funny think about him is there's 130 00:08:14,680 --> 00:08:17,480 Speaker 1: later Brando, you know, the very end, and there's him 131 00:08:17,560 --> 00:08:21,160 Speaker 1: with Larry King, and he's very playful and he's very childlike. 132 00:08:21,680 --> 00:08:23,920 Speaker 1: But with you when he was on, he seemed very 133 00:08:23,920 --> 00:08:26,200 Speaker 1: fueral on the show. Was he that way off camera? 134 00:08:26,400 --> 00:08:27,840 Speaker 1: He seemed like he was going to throw a punch 135 00:08:27,880 --> 00:08:31,520 Speaker 1: any minute now I know, And and the alternating with 136 00:08:32,679 --> 00:08:38,840 Speaker 1: that million dollar grin that admitted he couldn't cut away 137 00:08:38,880 --> 00:08:42,480 Speaker 1: from to do a reaction shop. Evenso in typnotized by 138 00:08:42,520 --> 00:08:47,120 Speaker 1: that fabulous grand is uh, he seemed to other people 139 00:08:47,160 --> 00:08:49,440 Speaker 1: said the show it seems like pulling teeth, and how 140 00:08:49,440 --> 00:08:52,320 Speaker 1: do you bring the dreary Indians one forward? And all 141 00:08:52,360 --> 00:08:55,320 Speaker 1: the stuff. It was a very difficult evening. And if 142 00:08:55,360 --> 00:08:57,480 Speaker 1: I had it to do again, I didn't resist him 143 00:08:57,520 --> 00:09:01,200 Speaker 1: any except at one point, well, I got a laugh 144 00:09:01,280 --> 00:09:03,360 Speaker 1: that he didn't get until he heard the audience laugh. 145 00:09:03,800 --> 00:09:06,560 Speaker 1: It looks like when I've seen it back, which was 146 00:09:07,280 --> 00:09:10,920 Speaker 1: what about the success of the movie Godfather? And and 147 00:09:11,000 --> 00:09:16,920 Speaker 1: he said, uh, we'll talk about movies, and the audience laughed. 148 00:09:18,080 --> 00:09:19,959 Speaker 1: That's one thing he would talk to a big movie star. 149 00:09:20,080 --> 00:09:24,199 Speaker 1: But he said, and then he grinned. He gave through 150 00:09:24,240 --> 00:09:27,440 Speaker 1: that anomalous grin, like I know what that's must mean 151 00:09:27,520 --> 00:09:30,840 Speaker 1: to you. So then I said, how about the book 152 00:09:30,880 --> 00:09:36,280 Speaker 1: The god Father? And he knew to laugh before. And 153 00:09:36,320 --> 00:09:40,640 Speaker 1: the other one was his belittling ice tea rattling belittling 154 00:09:40,760 --> 00:09:43,640 Speaker 1: ever the of the art of acting. And now you 155 00:09:43,640 --> 00:09:46,160 Speaker 1: know anybody can do it. You know, once he said 156 00:09:46,160 --> 00:09:48,280 Speaker 1: to me, you know your mom said, who pete on 157 00:09:48,320 --> 00:09:50,000 Speaker 1: the toilet seat? And you said I didn't do it. 158 00:09:50,440 --> 00:09:53,679 Speaker 1: You're acting then. Yeah. I come into his house and 159 00:09:53,760 --> 00:09:55,880 Speaker 1: he says, he says, and we're sitting there and I'm 160 00:09:55,920 --> 00:10:00,200 Speaker 1: completely Numbah. He comes in the first you are. He 161 00:10:00,240 --> 00:10:02,080 Speaker 1: comes in in a mumu and we're in his house. 162 00:10:02,080 --> 00:10:04,960 Speaker 1: It's a very host senatory moment for me. He looks 163 00:10:05,040 --> 00:10:09,079 Speaker 1: me and says, uh, you and I are like two 164 00:10:09,120 --> 00:10:13,480 Speaker 1: dogs sniffing each other right now. And he says, I'd 165 00:10:13,480 --> 00:10:16,720 Speaker 1: like to make an arrangement with you, in agreement with you, 166 00:10:16,720 --> 00:10:20,840 Speaker 1: where you say whatever you want to say and ask 167 00:10:20,920 --> 00:10:22,880 Speaker 1: me whatever you want to ask me, and I'll say 168 00:10:22,920 --> 00:10:25,240 Speaker 1: whatever I want to say, and I'll ask you whatever 169 00:10:25,320 --> 00:10:27,640 Speaker 1: I want to ask. You will just talk about whatever 170 00:10:27,720 --> 00:10:29,959 Speaker 1: we want to talk about. Little make us feel that 171 00:10:30,320 --> 00:10:32,760 Speaker 1: that is so him. Did he ever do any of 172 00:10:32,800 --> 00:10:37,520 Speaker 1: his little upsmanship things like saying, why are you holding 173 00:10:37,559 --> 00:10:42,360 Speaker 1: your left hand and your right hand like that? I say, 174 00:10:42,360 --> 00:10:45,040 Speaker 1: I don't know, well, why did you move your head 175 00:10:45,200 --> 00:10:48,600 Speaker 1: and to the side of your head like that? But 176 00:10:48,640 --> 00:10:51,160 Speaker 1: I know what you mean. When you first mate him, 177 00:10:51,360 --> 00:10:53,560 Speaker 1: if you can stop the voice in your head saying, 178 00:10:53,640 --> 00:10:57,000 Speaker 1: Jesus Christ, this is Marlon Brando that I'm sitting with 179 00:10:57,240 --> 00:11:01,400 Speaker 1: and he's so aware that my first talk with him 180 00:11:01,440 --> 00:11:05,880 Speaker 1: was on the phone where we are now. In fact, 181 00:11:06,360 --> 00:11:09,040 Speaker 1: he called I've told you what at a certain time, 182 00:11:10,880 --> 00:11:16,400 Speaker 1: and we talked with the sun about fifteen degrees above 183 00:11:16,440 --> 00:11:21,840 Speaker 1: the horizon until well after the moon had risen. With 184 00:11:21,920 --> 00:11:25,679 Speaker 1: him as an example, who are the ones who you 185 00:11:25,720 --> 00:11:30,840 Speaker 1: were surprised the way it went? Oh? Good or bad? Yeah? 186 00:11:31,040 --> 00:11:35,000 Speaker 1: The bad. The good was of course always welcome. And 187 00:11:35,240 --> 00:11:38,800 Speaker 1: I had no reason to think that James Mason would 188 00:11:38,880 --> 00:11:40,880 Speaker 1: be the first person I ever had on the show 189 00:11:41,040 --> 00:11:45,080 Speaker 1: in my daytime show who was so enchantingly charming, talking 190 00:11:45,679 --> 00:11:49,760 Speaker 1: without any sense of putting on the charm that I 191 00:11:49,800 --> 00:11:53,600 Speaker 1: missed all signals to go to commercial. And it was 192 00:11:53,640 --> 00:11:58,760 Speaker 1: the first time that I broke through reading my notes 193 00:11:58,880 --> 00:12:02,400 Speaker 1: off to the guest, barely able to hear what they 194 00:12:02,440 --> 00:12:05,920 Speaker 1: were saying for reasons of nerves and signals that I 195 00:12:06,040 --> 00:12:08,400 Speaker 1: just missed over their shoulder, And oh my god, someone 196 00:12:08,480 --> 00:12:11,120 Speaker 1: led her to card and took it back, and oh god, 197 00:12:11,160 --> 00:12:15,160 Speaker 1: the guests lips have stopped moving. Um, do you have 198 00:12:15,240 --> 00:12:22,360 Speaker 1: any hobbies? When it goes badly, it goes. The ones 199 00:12:22,440 --> 00:12:28,080 Speaker 1: who went badly were invariably not manny, fortunately, and nobody 200 00:12:28,200 --> 00:12:32,480 Speaker 1: just died on me, except whoever the lout was, who 201 00:12:32,559 --> 00:12:35,200 Speaker 1: was the male lead in the movies A Brisky Point 202 00:12:37,160 --> 00:12:43,120 Speaker 1: and his non verbal girlfriend who were inflicted on me 203 00:12:43,240 --> 00:12:46,160 Speaker 1: once however, many years ago. As a brisky Point came out, 204 00:12:47,160 --> 00:12:51,720 Speaker 1: he was monosyllabic and maybe thought it was funny. So 205 00:12:51,800 --> 00:12:53,520 Speaker 1: I don't know if it's a good movie or not. 206 00:12:58,120 --> 00:13:02,600 Speaker 1: Probably funny. Getting desperate and I said, I said, wait, 207 00:13:02,640 --> 00:13:05,320 Speaker 1: I read that you've got in a fight backstage with somebody, 208 00:13:05,440 --> 00:13:11,640 Speaker 1: first fight in a television studio. Yeah, we do you 209 00:13:11,640 --> 00:13:17,760 Speaker 1: want to know about? I said, details, forcing him to 210 00:13:17,800 --> 00:13:20,520 Speaker 1: talk a little later. Now, when this sort of thing 211 00:13:20,559 --> 00:13:23,520 Speaker 1: happens is one thing he must always do. Be sure 212 00:13:23,559 --> 00:13:27,800 Speaker 1: you have mel Brooks sitting there. Brooks was here and 213 00:13:27,880 --> 00:13:33,040 Speaker 1: it was uh. One day we were we found a 214 00:13:34,920 --> 00:13:43,600 Speaker 1: uh the guy says, we found a a bread box something. No, Melaniell. 215 00:13:46,960 --> 00:13:52,600 Speaker 1: The disappointing guests were writers. Now I loved having writers on. 216 00:13:52,840 --> 00:13:58,199 Speaker 1: I did Boys dream Some boys dreams up taken Chiever 217 00:13:58,360 --> 00:14:03,320 Speaker 1: on the same show, Chiever separately, Updike separately, saw Bellow. 218 00:14:03,360 --> 00:14:05,880 Speaker 1: I had them, I started to say, I had them 219 00:14:05,880 --> 00:14:08,480 Speaker 1: all who didn't cut it as a talk show, but 220 00:14:08,679 --> 00:14:12,960 Speaker 1: The thing was that, Yeah, you couldn't believe that this 221 00:14:13,400 --> 00:14:20,479 Speaker 1: semi articulate person having trouble with vocabulary, seemingly and just outlandish, 222 00:14:20,920 --> 00:14:25,800 Speaker 1: unbelievable thing had written that glorious prize winning prose that 223 00:14:25,880 --> 00:14:30,760 Speaker 1: you read. Now. The exceptions were, of course, Manny and Truman, Capodi, 224 00:14:31,520 --> 00:14:36,880 Speaker 1: questionably accurate but entertaining guests. At all times. You had 225 00:14:36,920 --> 00:14:40,080 Speaker 1: Olivia on the show. Correct. Yes, it was a ninety 226 00:14:40,080 --> 00:14:44,600 Speaker 1: minutes show in London. And then I did him again 227 00:14:45,320 --> 00:14:49,840 Speaker 1: in New York, um in the Windham Hotel with with 228 00:14:49,960 --> 00:14:55,000 Speaker 1: lady Olivier John playwright, and so I got two with Olivier. Um, 229 00:14:55,360 --> 00:15:00,200 Speaker 1: I was that well it was it was fine. He 230 00:15:00,440 --> 00:15:04,360 Speaker 1: what was so interesting about meeting was fine. It was 231 00:15:04,400 --> 00:15:06,680 Speaker 1: the opposite of bad, I think was what I was drinking. 232 00:15:07,720 --> 00:15:11,720 Speaker 1: He can't pick on a guy's choice of words. I 233 00:15:11,800 --> 00:15:14,320 Speaker 1: swore to God recently that I would never say the 234 00:15:14,320 --> 00:15:17,400 Speaker 1: word awesome in my life. And if we could only 235 00:15:17,440 --> 00:15:21,000 Speaker 1: make that true everyone in the world, that would be swell. 236 00:15:21,440 --> 00:15:27,760 Speaker 1: That can go along with iconic and um closure and 237 00:15:28,120 --> 00:15:32,560 Speaker 1: like of course and a few others. Amazing. We all 238 00:15:32,600 --> 00:15:35,080 Speaker 1: are saying amazing all the time. Now I got five 239 00:15:35,120 --> 00:15:40,520 Speaker 1: amazings and watching morning television for about forty minutes the 240 00:15:40,560 --> 00:15:45,160 Speaker 1: other day. Amazing guests, amazing guest we have, It's amazing script. 241 00:15:45,200 --> 00:15:50,000 Speaker 1: It's just amazing. I was amazed. But but Olivia was terrific, 242 00:15:50,040 --> 00:15:54,080 Speaker 1: and he was such a clown afterwards, not on the air. 243 00:15:54,160 --> 00:15:56,560 Speaker 1: He could have done so more on the air and 244 00:15:56,600 --> 00:15:59,040 Speaker 1: it would have been wonderful. I think I was probably 245 00:15:59,080 --> 00:16:02,240 Speaker 1: a little too in. I didn't say awesome to get 246 00:16:02,240 --> 00:16:04,320 Speaker 1: all the fun out of him that I later learned 247 00:16:04,400 --> 00:16:20,360 Speaker 1: is in there. This is Alec Baldwin, and you're listening 248 00:16:20,360 --> 00:16:23,800 Speaker 1: to here's the Thing coming up more from my conversation 249 00:16:24,000 --> 00:16:46,440 Speaker 1: with Dick Cavitt. I'm Alec Baldwin and you're listening to 250 00:16:46,560 --> 00:16:50,200 Speaker 1: Here's the Thing. I'm sipping iced tea and chatting with 251 00:16:50,280 --> 00:16:52,600 Speaker 1: Dick Kevin. Who were the people today that you sit 252 00:16:52,640 --> 00:16:54,640 Speaker 1: there and say, God, if I was doing it now, 253 00:16:55,360 --> 00:16:57,520 Speaker 1: that seemed like it could be fun. I almost wish 254 00:16:57,520 --> 00:17:01,680 Speaker 1: you hadn't asked me there, because here's how that thought 255 00:17:01,840 --> 00:17:06,080 Speaker 1: occurred to me. I was on a radio show plugging 256 00:17:06,080 --> 00:17:10,280 Speaker 1: the Book of It was Mark Simon, and he said this, 257 00:17:10,800 --> 00:17:16,240 Speaker 1: you must get cabots DVDs. Uh, there's one called Hollywood 258 00:17:16,280 --> 00:17:18,439 Speaker 1: Grates and and may he may have said, tell us 259 00:17:18,480 --> 00:17:21,800 Speaker 1: who's on it? And I thought, put a dirty trick. 260 00:17:21,840 --> 00:17:23,960 Speaker 1: I won't be able to think of two of them now. 261 00:17:24,600 --> 00:17:27,120 Speaker 1: But I had it sitting there on my messy table, 262 00:17:27,920 --> 00:17:31,880 Speaker 1: and here's who's on it. It has all of Katherine Hepburn, 263 00:17:32,119 --> 00:17:41,760 Speaker 1: Betty Davis, fred As Stair, Kirk Douglas, Lucille Ball, Frank Capra. 264 00:17:42,480 --> 00:17:46,360 Speaker 1: No coward, coward isn't on that one. Damnit? That needs 265 00:17:46,359 --> 00:17:51,959 Speaker 1: a zeppelin to Robert mitchum Orson Wells, John Houston and 266 00:17:52,000 --> 00:17:56,760 Speaker 1: Marlon Brando. And I looked at this that I mentioned 267 00:17:56,800 --> 00:18:02,680 Speaker 1: Lucille Ball, and I thought two things. Um ay am 268 00:18:02,720 --> 00:18:06,520 Speaker 1: I the only one in this cover of this box 269 00:18:06,560 --> 00:18:12,600 Speaker 1: who's alive? No Kirk Douglas is. But what I really 270 00:18:12,640 --> 00:18:16,800 Speaker 1: thought was who are their counterparts? Now? What list of 271 00:18:16,960 --> 00:18:22,399 Speaker 1: today's grades would include that many redwoods? Even in politics, 272 00:18:22,520 --> 00:18:25,359 Speaker 1: politics writing? Are there anybody authors? And I think we 273 00:18:25,440 --> 00:18:29,120 Speaker 1: live in an age of increasing mediocrity? So you don't 274 00:18:29,119 --> 00:18:30,720 Speaker 1: sit there and say, I would love to have Richard 275 00:18:30,760 --> 00:18:33,159 Speaker 1: Holbrook on. I'd love to have Oh there are some, 276 00:18:33,359 --> 00:18:37,879 Speaker 1: There are plenty of people. Yeah, God, yes, Meryl Streep 277 00:18:38,840 --> 00:18:42,639 Speaker 1: belongs to anybody's list of grades soon and and and, 278 00:18:45,000 --> 00:18:50,919 Speaker 1: but I don't think quite so many achieve. Maybe you 279 00:18:50,960 --> 00:18:54,080 Speaker 1: can't be big in the way those people were, these 280 00:18:54,320 --> 00:18:57,720 Speaker 1: giant people, who are do they grow redwoods anymore? Do 281 00:18:57,800 --> 00:19:05,640 Speaker 1: they just grow with smaller Sequali is the finest cobas converse. Yeah. Well, 282 00:19:05,640 --> 00:19:07,199 Speaker 1: the media is like a train, you know. I mean 283 00:19:07,240 --> 00:19:09,480 Speaker 1: it used to be a train was a glamorous, gleaming 284 00:19:09,520 --> 00:19:12,399 Speaker 1: thing that wasn't up. Now a train is a filthy 285 00:19:12,400 --> 00:19:15,760 Speaker 1: That's when you get in when you can't raise the 286 00:19:15,880 --> 00:19:18,600 Speaker 1: question completely outside show business. But when I was a 287 00:19:18,680 --> 00:19:22,240 Speaker 1: kid at marveled that Japan had a two hundred mile 288 00:19:22,320 --> 00:19:26,400 Speaker 1: an hour the Shinkuns and bullet train, and we still 289 00:19:26,480 --> 00:19:30,119 Speaker 1: have the Long Island Railroad. And I'm fifty years older. Yeah, 290 00:19:30,160 --> 00:19:36,159 Speaker 1: it's a great country though, wasn't it otherwise? America? Yes, you, um, 291 00:19:36,240 --> 00:19:40,680 Speaker 1: you obviously have had your difficulties and you've talked about 292 00:19:40,680 --> 00:19:43,560 Speaker 1: I know we're looking over your shows like that's somebody else. 293 00:19:44,080 --> 00:19:46,560 Speaker 1: And I know for me, when I was getting divorced 294 00:19:46,600 --> 00:19:49,720 Speaker 1: and I was in the the real native of the 295 00:19:49,720 --> 00:19:54,360 Speaker 1: whole experience, I feel horrible. Everybody gets down, everybody has 296 00:19:54,400 --> 00:19:57,280 Speaker 1: the blues. Everybody suffers losses. You can not only have 297 00:19:57,320 --> 00:20:00,480 Speaker 1: a bad game, you can have a bad season. But 298 00:20:00,520 --> 00:20:04,240 Speaker 1: then when do you decide that you need help from 299 00:20:04,280 --> 00:20:09,399 Speaker 1: someone clinically? Since memory is affected by depression, there are 300 00:20:09,440 --> 00:20:11,720 Speaker 1: details like that. They're not absolutely sure, but I know. 301 00:20:11,800 --> 00:20:14,760 Speaker 1: The one time I knew was that when I boarded 302 00:20:14,760 --> 00:20:17,159 Speaker 1: the concorde and realized I'm not going to be this 303 00:20:17,280 --> 00:20:21,040 Speaker 1: sick in another country and got off and I called 304 00:20:21,119 --> 00:20:24,320 Speaker 1: my shrink and he said, well, you can either get 305 00:20:24,359 --> 00:20:28,600 Speaker 1: on the next plane or go to Colombia. And my 306 00:20:28,680 --> 00:20:31,600 Speaker 1: staff was already over there, and I just said, I 307 00:20:31,640 --> 00:20:36,920 Speaker 1: can't go away feeling this horrible. A stewardess took one 308 00:20:36,960 --> 00:20:38,640 Speaker 1: look at me and said you want to get off, 309 00:20:39,800 --> 00:20:43,879 Speaker 1: and I said yeah, I mean she saw whatever it was, 310 00:20:43,960 --> 00:20:46,240 Speaker 1: it was clear that'll bring it. Me ask you this, 311 00:20:46,680 --> 00:20:49,520 Speaker 1: Did you work during any of this? Were you able 312 00:20:49,520 --> 00:20:54,320 Speaker 1: to work? I had to work to work. And I 313 00:20:54,359 --> 00:20:56,920 Speaker 1: can tell you a quickie that involves two people we've 314 00:20:56,960 --> 00:21:01,240 Speaker 1: already named. I was at the Brand Residents you might 315 00:21:01,280 --> 00:21:07,560 Speaker 1: have just left one day and I told him about 316 00:21:08,160 --> 00:21:11,520 Speaker 1: taking a show with Olivier in the Window hotel or PBS, 317 00:21:12,600 --> 00:21:17,040 Speaker 1: and I said, I was so depressed while doing it, 318 00:21:18,359 --> 00:21:22,679 Speaker 1: and it's being Olivier made me realize how depressed I was, 319 00:21:23,400 --> 00:21:25,560 Speaker 1: because when I got to the hotel and they took 320 00:21:25,600 --> 00:21:27,920 Speaker 1: me to a room and we were going to tap 321 00:21:28,000 --> 00:21:31,119 Speaker 1: in the room up above, I thought, Laurence Olivier is 322 00:21:31,200 --> 00:21:34,080 Speaker 1: one story above me, and I don't give a damn. 323 00:21:34,920 --> 00:21:37,679 Speaker 1: I just want to go home and get under the rug. 324 00:21:39,160 --> 00:21:42,720 Speaker 1: And there are some cue cards. What do they say, 325 00:21:43,160 --> 00:21:46,240 Speaker 1: I'll start it over again? How can they be so 326 00:21:46,400 --> 00:21:48,760 Speaker 1: cruel to get me out of bed and to do this? 327 00:21:50,040 --> 00:21:53,720 Speaker 1: And sitting there with the Olivier's having read it Pumpter 328 00:21:54,880 --> 00:22:01,320 Speaker 1: cue card introduction, the chat started and I had some 329 00:22:01,520 --> 00:22:06,040 Speaker 1: notes off him, but I thought, this is awful. They're 330 00:22:06,040 --> 00:22:08,080 Speaker 1: going to come over any moment and say, Dick, it's 331 00:22:08,080 --> 00:22:11,640 Speaker 1: all right. We'll send them home, or we will send 332 00:22:11,640 --> 00:22:14,199 Speaker 1: you home and their home. You know, we'll get them 333 00:22:14,200 --> 00:22:16,160 Speaker 1: back on another day. This is obviously not a good 334 00:22:16,240 --> 00:22:18,959 Speaker 1: day for you. They thought. Rushing through my head was 335 00:22:19,200 --> 00:22:23,600 Speaker 1: they can see I am nuts. My brain is cracked. 336 00:22:23,760 --> 00:22:26,760 Speaker 1: They can see it. I must be taking twenty second 337 00:22:26,840 --> 00:22:30,919 Speaker 1: pauses and when they speak until I do, and I 338 00:22:31,000 --> 00:22:34,080 Speaker 1: must be just hanging there my head A better lips 339 00:22:34,160 --> 00:22:38,000 Speaker 1: raised my head a little and Olivier is quite quite 340 00:22:38,080 --> 00:22:41,320 Speaker 1: smart enough in the psychology of performing and so on 341 00:22:41,480 --> 00:22:44,600 Speaker 1: to know that he's kind of ding bad on his hands, 342 00:22:45,320 --> 00:22:50,600 Speaker 1: and this is just yeah. I hope Rob and my 343 00:22:51,640 --> 00:22:54,560 Speaker 1: my producer, will come over and say it's all right. 344 00:22:55,359 --> 00:22:59,000 Speaker 1: But I realized I had finished it, and I was 345 00:22:59,040 --> 00:23:02,840 Speaker 1: telling Brando that, and he said, I said, how awful 346 00:23:02,960 --> 00:23:04,640 Speaker 1: was And he said, to the genter sly that show. 347 00:23:06,040 --> 00:23:09,800 Speaker 1: I said, oh god, you're kidding. No, dont me a favor, 348 00:23:10,560 --> 00:23:15,040 Speaker 1: go home and look at it, Saffy year later, well longer. 349 00:23:15,080 --> 00:23:18,840 Speaker 1: I was well then, So I went home and looked 350 00:23:18,840 --> 00:23:22,359 Speaker 1: at it, and I was fine. There were no pauses. 351 00:23:22,800 --> 00:23:26,439 Speaker 1: And I saw him again and reported that to him. 352 00:23:26,640 --> 00:23:29,000 Speaker 1: I said, how did you know what is that? I 353 00:23:29,040 --> 00:23:32,480 Speaker 1: didn't have hesitations. I came right in. I looked interested, 354 00:23:32,640 --> 00:23:36,360 Speaker 1: which I wasn't. My eyes were sparkling, which I were 355 00:23:36,400 --> 00:23:38,960 Speaker 1: no reason. And I looked like I was having the 356 00:23:39,000 --> 00:23:42,280 Speaker 1: best time with the Olivier's anyone could have with anybody. 357 00:23:42,640 --> 00:23:46,199 Speaker 1: He said, the automatic pilot. I've heard the resort to 358 00:23:46,280 --> 00:23:51,800 Speaker 1: it A lot takes over. So had I stayed at 359 00:23:51,840 --> 00:23:54,359 Speaker 1: home that day and not taped the Olivier's, I would 360 00:23:54,359 --> 00:23:59,159 Speaker 1: have stayed in bed and could not. If I had 361 00:23:59,160 --> 00:24:03,320 Speaker 1: been taped there, I have looked good. But some part 362 00:24:03,359 --> 00:24:07,919 Speaker 1: of us who are in the business something won't let you, 363 00:24:08,280 --> 00:24:12,399 Speaker 1: some crazy way be a total mess while you're working. Well, 364 00:24:12,400 --> 00:24:14,560 Speaker 1: there's two of us, Yeah, we have too, so those 365 00:24:14,560 --> 00:24:18,080 Speaker 1: two sides. I saw it with Judy Garland, who was 366 00:24:18,240 --> 00:24:22,359 Speaker 1: I think on my show for her last television appearance, 367 00:24:22,840 --> 00:24:26,600 Speaker 1: the sixty eight daytime show. ABC erased them all used 368 00:24:26,600 --> 00:24:28,960 Speaker 1: them to tape. Let's make a deal. It might be 369 00:24:29,080 --> 00:24:32,840 Speaker 1: there's somebody has a bumpy home tape of that. She 370 00:24:33,160 --> 00:24:35,959 Speaker 1: was so wonderful. You talk about these tapes, by the way, 371 00:24:35,960 --> 00:24:37,720 Speaker 1: I want to get back to the you know whatever. 372 00:24:37,760 --> 00:24:39,760 Speaker 1: You talk about these tapes and you got the rights 373 00:24:39,760 --> 00:24:44,359 Speaker 1: to the ABC. There's some several versions of what really happened. 374 00:24:44,359 --> 00:24:50,760 Speaker 1: I just remember being told one day, Dick, they they're 375 00:24:50,800 --> 00:24:55,399 Speaker 1: going to either reuse the tapes or erase them or 376 00:24:55,600 --> 00:25:00,080 Speaker 1: dump them. When you see what tapes that once to the 377 00:25:00,040 --> 00:25:04,199 Speaker 1: the ABC show and you can have them if you 378 00:25:04,280 --> 00:25:09,080 Speaker 1: want to, for sixty dollars each. And I thought, well, 379 00:25:09,119 --> 00:25:13,159 Speaker 1: that's a ludicrous amount of money. And a guy on 380 00:25:13,280 --> 00:25:17,240 Speaker 1: my staff unfortunately, but he did it quite well. I 381 00:25:17,359 --> 00:25:19,720 Speaker 1: went through them and eliminated those he thought would never 382 00:25:19,760 --> 00:25:21,840 Speaker 1: be of any interest again. And it turned out some 383 00:25:21,920 --> 00:25:25,240 Speaker 1: of them would have been. But I have most all 384 00:25:25,280 --> 00:25:27,560 Speaker 1: of them. Thank god he didn't rely on you for 385 00:25:27,600 --> 00:25:29,159 Speaker 1: that choice, because you would have said him, well, you 386 00:25:29,160 --> 00:25:32,320 Speaker 1: can get rid of the Olivier because I was zunks throughout. Yeah, 387 00:25:32,960 --> 00:25:35,159 Speaker 1: the throw out that one I was fine for the 388 00:25:35,200 --> 00:25:39,320 Speaker 1: first they be able. When you talk about those ABC tapes, 389 00:25:39,960 --> 00:25:44,080 Speaker 1: I in my mind visualize the guys throwing the sled 390 00:25:44,160 --> 00:25:47,440 Speaker 1: on the fire, you know, burning. I see these guys 391 00:25:47,480 --> 00:25:48,800 Speaker 1: with a box attempt. What are we supposed to do 392 00:25:48,840 --> 00:25:51,399 Speaker 1: with these tapes? Charlie? Yeah, somebody said, I don't know 393 00:25:51,480 --> 00:25:54,000 Speaker 1: that the Cabin show. I mean, what the hell is that? 394 00:25:54,920 --> 00:26:02,119 Speaker 1: Ray said, throw it in the fire. You're too realistic? Loss, 395 00:26:02,680 --> 00:26:05,800 Speaker 1: you know, the Cent of Bitches erased most of Johnny 396 00:26:05,800 --> 00:26:09,480 Speaker 1: Carson's New York shows years of the number which I 397 00:26:09,520 --> 00:26:13,480 Speaker 1: was on. I'd love to see them. What's your relationship 398 00:26:13,640 --> 00:26:15,639 Speaker 1: to television now we really have it? You watch is 399 00:26:15,760 --> 00:26:21,000 Speaker 1: real than you like? Yeah, and so I don't associate 400 00:26:21,560 --> 00:26:28,760 Speaker 1: television with entertainment very much. Um and total three hundred 401 00:26:28,800 --> 00:26:35,840 Speaker 1: and sixty degrees. When we got television in Nebraska. I 402 00:26:35,880 --> 00:26:40,439 Speaker 1: watched it every evening. I could tell you now CBS, 403 00:26:40,560 --> 00:26:43,840 Speaker 1: NBC and ABC schedules for every night of the week. 404 00:26:43,960 --> 00:26:46,960 Speaker 1: Back then, I watched everything, and a lot of it 405 00:26:47,000 --> 00:26:51,280 Speaker 1: was good. I wasn't just watching crap. I watched Studio One, 406 00:26:51,320 --> 00:26:56,480 Speaker 1: I watched Robert Montgomery, Philco Theater, the Web, of course, 407 00:26:56,520 --> 00:27:03,840 Speaker 1: Gleason and variety shows that in his orchestru Les Brown 408 00:27:03,880 --> 00:27:05,960 Speaker 1: and his band of renown, and now here's the star 409 00:27:06,040 --> 00:27:10,920 Speaker 1: of our show, Bob ho Bad and I got Goose 410 00:27:10,920 --> 00:27:14,760 Speaker 1: pumples even now. But then, not only did I watch it, 411 00:27:15,000 --> 00:27:19,720 Speaker 1: I from Nebraska, but I got to a l and 412 00:27:19,800 --> 00:27:21,639 Speaker 1: I went down to New York and every all the 413 00:27:21,680 --> 00:27:26,240 Speaker 1: other man went to Vassar, Smith and Wellesley. On weekends, 414 00:27:26,800 --> 00:27:29,720 Speaker 1: I went to TV and theaters and studios in New York, 415 00:27:30,440 --> 00:27:34,520 Speaker 1: and I took a CBS envelope that I pulled off 416 00:27:34,560 --> 00:27:40,440 Speaker 1: a CBS truck. Some guy left the CBS high on it, 417 00:27:41,000 --> 00:27:43,439 Speaker 1: and I put something in that. And I walked into 418 00:27:43,480 --> 00:27:46,400 Speaker 1: the stage door of the Jackie Gleason Show and said, 419 00:27:46,440 --> 00:27:50,320 Speaker 1: how's it going today? Okay? And got into the theater 420 00:27:50,440 --> 00:27:54,640 Speaker 1: and hid in there until showtime and watched And when 421 00:27:54,640 --> 00:27:57,800 Speaker 1: the June Taylor dancers performed a v up to the 422 00:27:58,119 --> 00:28:02,080 Speaker 1: upstage and Jackie came down through it. I know my 423 00:28:02,160 --> 00:28:12,760 Speaker 1: hair stood up. You can read Dick Cavitt's blog A 424 00:28:12,880 --> 00:28:14,919 Speaker 1: word he admits he had to look up before he 425 00:28:14,960 --> 00:28:18,439 Speaker 1: started writing one on the New York Times website. How 426 00:28:18,440 --> 00:28:20,160 Speaker 1: would you rank me so far? How am I doing? 427 00:28:20,280 --> 00:28:23,240 Speaker 1: If you had to use one word, what would it be? Wow? 428 00:28:23,880 --> 00:28:27,560 Speaker 1: Thank you you wo w. I thought you were gonna 429 00:28:27,560 --> 00:28:30,520 Speaker 1: say awesome. No, I would. I would not say awesome 430 00:28:30,640 --> 00:28:35,520 Speaker 1: for anybody in any prize. This is Alec Baldwin and 431 00:28:35,560 --> 00:28:37,360 Speaker 1: you're listening to here's the thing