WEBVTT - AmEx Revamps Platinum Card, Increases Fee 0:00:01.800 --> 0:00:04.400 This is Bloomberg Business Week. I'm Charle Masser and I'm 0:00:04.440 --> 0:00:07.280 Bloomberg Quick Takes Tim Stanibek. We're here every day bringing 0:00:07.280 --> 0:00:09.799 you the latest news from the world of business and finance, 0:00:09.840 --> 0:00:13.600 plus technology, politics, economics, all parnessing the power of Business 0:00:13.640 --> 0:00:17.119 Week reporters and editors, not to mention our journalists and 0:00:17.120 --> 0:00:20.000 analyst in more than one twenty countries. You can download 0:00:20.000 --> 0:00:23.200 Bloomberg Business Week and iTunes, SoundCloud, or Bloomberg dot Com. 0:00:23.400 --> 0:00:25.120 You can also listen to our radio show at two 0:00:25.160 --> 0:00:27.840 pm Eastern Time on Bloomberg Radio, or watch us on 0:00:27.880 --> 0:00:31.520 YouTube search Bloomberg Global News. We know that there's a 0:00:31.520 --> 0:00:33.840 bunch of headlines out there, Charlie and I talking about 0:00:33.880 --> 0:00:35.960 them earlier when it comes to COVID and the virus 0:00:36.400 --> 0:00:40.080 among them, UK Prime Minister Boris Johnson warning that quote 0:00:40.080 --> 0:00:44.160 extra precautions might be needed even after the July he said, 0:00:44.159 --> 0:00:47.400 we'll mark the end of the country's COVID restrictions. So 0:00:47.560 --> 0:00:50.160 we are watching a lot and for what our guest 0:00:50.240 --> 0:00:52.159 is watching when it comes to the virus, let's bring 0:00:52.200 --> 0:00:55.040 in Dr Ruth Karen. She's Professor of International Health and 0:00:55.040 --> 0:00:58.440 director of the Center for Immunization research and founding director 0:00:58.440 --> 0:01:00.920 of the Johns Hopkins Vaccine and NiTi Shative at the 0:01:01.000 --> 0:01:05.400 Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health, supported by Michael R. Bloomberg, 0:01:05.440 --> 0:01:08.160 of course, founder of Bloomberg ALP and Bloomberg Philanthropies. Dr 0:01:08.240 --> 0:01:10.480 Karen joins us on the phone from Chevy Chase, Maryland. 0:01:10.520 --> 0:01:13.560 Dr Karen, nice to have you here with us. I 0:01:13.560 --> 0:01:15.800 want to get into your focus, which is, i know, 0:01:15.959 --> 0:01:19.640 looking at pregnant women in general. Help me though, make 0:01:19.720 --> 0:01:22.160 some sense of some of the conversations you all at 0:01:22.160 --> 0:01:24.840 Hopkins are having when it comes to the Delta variant. 0:01:26.600 --> 0:01:30.960 So really nice to be with you, Carol. We are following, 0:01:31.040 --> 0:01:34.880 of course, as is everybody, the progression of the delta 0:01:35.000 --> 0:01:38.720 variant very carefully. Um it's certainly it is. It is 0:01:38.800 --> 0:01:42.240 here in our country, as in many countries around the world, 0:01:42.720 --> 0:01:45.480 and as I'm I'm sure you've heard, we really do 0:01:45.600 --> 0:01:49.120 expect it to take over as the dominant strain in 0:01:49.160 --> 0:01:52.760 the coming weeks. What does that mean when that takes 0:01:52.760 --> 0:01:58.000 over the dominant strain? Well, meaning that that it will 0:01:59.360 --> 0:02:02.720 when people are infected with COVID, they will be infected 0:02:02.800 --> 0:02:06.440 with the delta variant. And the reason that we're concerned about. 0:02:06.520 --> 0:02:10.480 That is because we know that this virus is both 0:02:10.520 --> 0:02:14.079 more infectious than other strains of COVID that we've had 0:02:14.120 --> 0:02:18.600 before and more lethal. But the really important thing to 0:02:18.720 --> 0:02:21.240 know and the and the good news and all of 0:02:21.280 --> 0:02:26.120 this is the vaccines that we have do offer protection 0:02:26.200 --> 0:02:29.760 against the delta variant. So the best thing that we 0:02:29.800 --> 0:02:32.639 can do is to get as many people vaccinated as 0:02:32.680 --> 0:02:35.360 quickly as possible, and that includes pregnant women. And I 0:02:35.400 --> 0:02:38.080 know that there's been some debate, you know, throughout this 0:02:38.200 --> 0:02:42.840 process among those who are pregnant, uh, and trying to 0:02:42.880 --> 0:02:45.400 figure out what's the best and safest thing to do. 0:02:46.040 --> 0:02:50.520 Weigh in on this if you would, Yeah, So I'd 0:02:50.520 --> 0:02:53.119 like to say a couple of things about this, And 0:02:53.120 --> 0:02:58.799 and I very much sympathize with um pregnant people and 0:02:58.960 --> 0:03:02.280 with their provid iters, because one of the problems we 0:03:02.360 --> 0:03:07.280 have is that pregnant people were not included in trials 0:03:07.280 --> 0:03:11.200 of the COVID vaccines. There are some trials going on now, 0:03:11.760 --> 0:03:15.680 but so UM these individuals and their providers had to 0:03:15.760 --> 0:03:20.440 make decisions initially when there wasn't much data we didn't 0:03:20.480 --> 0:03:24.720 know about the safety of these vaccines, and pregnant individuals. 0:03:24.760 --> 0:03:29.760 That situation has largely changed. UM. We are collecting data 0:03:29.800 --> 0:03:32.839 we have been since January about the use of these 0:03:32.960 --> 0:03:38.360 vaccines and in pregnant people. UH the CDC has maintained 0:03:38.360 --> 0:03:42.440 a registry of of pregnant people who get the COVID vaccines, 0:03:42.920 --> 0:03:45.880 as do many other countries around the world, and so 0:03:45.920 --> 0:03:50.120 we have increasing evidence of the safety of these vaccines 0:03:50.640 --> 0:03:54.800 in pregnant individuals. It's also really important to know and 0:03:54.840 --> 0:03:58.480 I think UM the CDC makes makes a good point 0:03:58.520 --> 0:04:01.760 about this, as do many There's the pregnant people are 0:04:01.840 --> 0:04:06.640 really elevated risk of severe COVID disease and death compared 0:04:06.720 --> 0:04:09.720 to non pregnant people at the same age. So it's 0:04:09.800 --> 0:04:14.280 really very important for people who are in positions of 0:04:14.360 --> 0:04:18.760 making decisions about whether UM to become vaccinated to understand 0:04:18.800 --> 0:04:21.279 that well. And I also think what's really important in 0:04:21.360 --> 0:04:25.240 understanding Dr Karen is understanding what this vaccine does. And 0:04:25.279 --> 0:04:28.839 I think there's been some misinformation out there about it 0:04:28.960 --> 0:04:32.800 changes genetic code and help us. And I know I've 0:04:32.800 --> 0:04:35.160 done this. I've gone to doctors many times throughout the 0:04:35.160 --> 0:04:38.719 past year to understand exactly what's going on. And you know, 0:04:38.760 --> 0:04:41.679 in later months. Obviously, what what this vaccine is all about? 0:04:41.800 --> 0:04:44.200 Can you explain it again, exactly what this vaccine does. 0:04:45.560 --> 0:04:49.600 So these vaccines UM, whether they're the the mr in 0:04:49.720 --> 0:04:53.840 A vaccines UM, the MODERNA and the Fiser bio and Tech, 0:04:54.520 --> 0:04:58.719 or the Johnson and Johnson vaccine UM there each those 0:04:58.760 --> 0:05:01.400 are made a little bit different ly, but they have 0:05:01.600 --> 0:05:06.120 the same end result, which is that they have your 0:05:06.160 --> 0:05:12.839 body produce UM does the COVID nineteen virus spike protein, 0:05:13.320 --> 0:05:16.640 and then your body makes antibodies to that spike protein 0:05:17.000 --> 0:05:21.400 and that's what protects you against COVID nineteen. UM. These 0:05:21.440 --> 0:05:25.640 are not UM. These are not vaccines that can integrate 0:05:25.720 --> 0:05:30.360 into your genetic material, change your genetics, or change the 0:05:30.680 --> 0:05:35.680 genetics as the fetus or a baby. These vaccines don't 0:05:35.760 --> 0:05:39.200 have any effect on fertility. So I think those are 0:05:39.440 --> 0:05:42.640 both important things for people to know. Agreed, And I'm 0:05:42.680 --> 0:05:44.800 so glad you laid it out. Dr Riath Karen, Professor 0:05:44.800 --> 0:05:47.880 of International Health at Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health, 0:05:48.200 --> 0:05:51.120 joining us on the phone from Maryland. You're listening to 0:05:51.200 --> 0:05:55.200 Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Messer and Bloomberg Quick Takes. 0:05:55.279 --> 0:05:59.360 Tim Stinovic on Bloomberg Radio chairs of American Express. They're 0:05:59.400 --> 0:06:02.640 up about one percent in the Thursday trade. The company 0:06:02.720 --> 0:06:05.160 up and the upping the anti to win more premium 0:06:05.200 --> 0:06:07.720 card customers. But yeah, as Charlie mentioned, it's going to 0:06:07.800 --> 0:06:11.080 cost more here with what they are doing and exactly 0:06:11.160 --> 0:06:13.920 maybe why they're doing it. Bloomberg News Finance team Sally 0:06:13.960 --> 0:06:17.800 Big while she's in our Interactor Broker studio, so later 0:06:17.800 --> 0:06:19.600 at for us what Amex is up to. We've kind 0:06:19.600 --> 0:06:21.240 of talked about it a little bit, but lay it 0:06:21.240 --> 0:06:23.600 out for us, Sally, Well, I think companies are really 0:06:23.640 --> 0:06:25.960 starting to pull out all the stops again to lure 0:06:26.040 --> 0:06:29.240 customers to take on new credit cards after they retreated 0:06:29.320 --> 0:06:31.760 from some of these kinds of deals during the pandemic 0:06:31.760 --> 0:06:33.919 because we weren't traveling right in. Amex is known for 0:06:33.960 --> 0:06:37.320 its travel perks exactly now the economy is reopening, traveling 0:06:37.440 --> 0:06:40.000 travel is firing up and folks are shopping and dining out, 0:06:40.080 --> 0:06:42.360 and Amex is adding a number of perks to its 0:06:42.360 --> 0:06:44.680 Platinum card. And let me tell you a bit about them. 0:06:44.680 --> 0:06:48.239 They include two hundred dollars in hotel credits and deals 0:06:48.360 --> 0:06:51.640 chartering private jets um which of course you know that's 0:06:51.680 --> 0:06:54.800 sort of exactly my um my jam there. Um. And 0:06:54.839 --> 0:06:57.039 it's also branching out a bit from its typical dining 0:06:57.080 --> 0:06:59.960 and travel offerings. Um, it's offering card hold just whole 0:07:00.080 --> 0:07:02.880 is twenty dollars a month to use for digital products 0:07:02.920 --> 0:07:05.719 like Audible, as well as twenty five dollars towards high 0:07:05.800 --> 0:07:09.080 end gym Equinox. So yeah, they having having to be 0:07:09.120 --> 0:07:11.119 a bit more creative in a bid to keep their 0:07:11.200 --> 0:07:14.400 affluent customers because of course, yeah, people haven't been able 0:07:14.440 --> 0:07:16.280 to travel during the pandemic, and so they've had to 0:07:16.320 --> 0:07:19.640 go a little bit beyond the normal travel and entertainment time. 0:07:19.720 --> 0:07:22.160 So it feels like it's much more of a lifestyle 0:07:22.240 --> 0:07:25.119 card or trying to become more of a lifestyle chart card. 0:07:25.160 --> 0:07:28.239 It's not just about people who are traveling to cool places. 0:07:28.280 --> 0:07:30.000 I mean, they kind of got a SmackDown right during 0:07:30.000 --> 0:07:32.480 the pandemic, like a lot of cards. But nonetheless it 0:07:32.560 --> 0:07:35.600 feels like they've been thinking about it differently. Yeah, and 0:07:35.880 --> 0:07:39.160 it's spent months working on this card under the code 0:07:39.240 --> 0:07:42.160 name Project Pentagon, and it is going to cost you. 0:07:42.280 --> 0:07:44.559 It's um annual fee is going up from five hundred 0:07:44.560 --> 0:07:48.320 and fifty to six d um. You know, credit card 0:07:48.320 --> 0:07:50.880 companies they don't want to lose their best customers, so 0:07:51.040 --> 0:07:53.840 they pay a lot of money upfront to acquire customers 0:07:53.960 --> 0:07:57.280 via advertising, via sign up bonuses, and actually that can 0:07:57.320 --> 0:08:00.800 make the investment quite hard to recoup um. There are 0:08:00.800 --> 0:08:03.640 analysts estimates out there that for the Chase Sapphire card, 0:08:03.920 --> 0:08:06.520 it took them some five and a half years UM 0:08:06.760 --> 0:08:08.560 to make good on the investments they had to put 0:08:08.560 --> 0:08:11.760 into little customers, because of course that was a hundred 0:08:11.760 --> 0:08:13.720 thousand points as a sign up bonus. Well, and it's 0:08:13.760 --> 0:08:15.920 interesting I'm thinking about the cost of it. I mean 0:08:15.920 --> 0:08:20.160 almost seven dollars. That's pretty steep in comparison to even 0:08:20.160 --> 0:08:22.800 some of the premium cards that are out there, right, Yeah, 0:08:22.840 --> 0:08:26.360 I think most people it's generally five hundred dollars, isn't 0:08:26.400 --> 0:08:29.800 it um, Which is a lot of money. It's still 0:08:29.800 --> 0:08:31.840 a lot and you get that in exchange for special 0:08:31.840 --> 0:08:34.960 access to airport lounges, extra rewards for travel and spending 0:08:35.240 --> 0:08:37.240 and other perks. But given much of those were halted 0:08:37.520 --> 0:08:39.360 in the pandemic, yeah, they've had to come up with 0:08:39.360 --> 0:08:42.320 other ways to entice customers sell. Generally speaking, these bank 0:08:42.360 --> 0:08:45.560 cards are these, um, I mean American Express, this is 0:08:45.559 --> 0:08:47.000 what they're all about. But I even think about some 0:08:47.000 --> 0:08:49.200 of the banks that have cards, how important are they 0:08:49.679 --> 0:08:52.079 as a revenue source? And I think about for American 0:08:52.080 --> 0:08:54.920 Express in particular the platinum, the high end. I guess 0:08:54.920 --> 0:08:57.360 I'm assuming among their card members they might have more 0:08:57.400 --> 0:09:00.840 green cards, right American Express card. I know, the travel 0:09:01.040 --> 0:09:04.199 like we have Bloomberg Travel, right, like we have American Express. 0:09:04.240 --> 0:09:06.200 I mean, where do they make the most money? Is 0:09:06.200 --> 0:09:08.199 it these high the higher end cards? Is it to 0:09:08.320 --> 0:09:11.160 travel the business travel? Yeah, I think it's the premium, 0:09:11.360 --> 0:09:13.960 the higher end UM. And it's been tough for them. 0:09:13.960 --> 0:09:15.960 They've been in a bit of a bind because it 0:09:16.040 --> 0:09:19.000 does cost them so much UM for to build up 0:09:19.040 --> 0:09:21.320 these high end card offerings. And so that's why it's 0:09:21.320 --> 0:09:24.040 so important for them to retain their customers. UM. But 0:09:24.120 --> 0:09:26.559 also don't forget, you know, they had to set aside 0:09:26.559 --> 0:09:28.440 a lot of banks had to set aside or card 0:09:28.520 --> 0:09:31.520 lenders had to set aside extra provisions to cover suring 0:09:31.600 --> 0:09:34.040 loans last year, which also pinched their profitabilities. So they 0:09:34.040 --> 0:09:37.160 were facing they were being confronted with some pretty tough 0:09:37.480 --> 0:09:41.119 forces there um And but actually still that said attrition 0:09:41.200 --> 0:09:45.800 levels weren't actually that high for premium cards um at 0:09:45.920 --> 0:09:49.920 KPM City and AMEX, So it does show that their 0:09:49.960 --> 0:09:53.840 efforts pay off to keep hold of those premium customers. 0:09:53.880 --> 0:09:55.559 The more afluents, right, the last thing they want to 0:09:55.559 --> 0:09:57.439 do with somebody like snipping up the car and cutting 0:09:57.480 --> 0:09:59.800 up the car, right, because it's yeah, I mean, the 0:10:00.000 --> 0:10:02.079 longer you stay with it, the and the more likely 0:10:02.080 --> 0:10:04.320 you already used that card if you've got it in 0:10:04.400 --> 0:10:07.920 your wallet. Um, it's a loyalty thing. Such a lot 0:10:07.960 --> 0:10:11.240 of money. Seven. Uh good, good. Good to get the 0:10:11.280 --> 0:10:13.439 breakdown of what they're up to, Sally Bake, Well, she's 0:10:13.440 --> 0:10:15.679 our finance team leader at Bloomberg News. Here in our 0:10:15.679 --> 0:10:20.000 Bloomberg Interactive Broker Studio. This is Bloomberg Business Week with 0:10:20.080 --> 0:10:24.920 Carol Masser and Bloomberg Quick Takes Tim Stinovic on Bloomberg Radio. 0:10:25.360 --> 0:10:27.560 So this story, it's our Bloomberg Big Take today. It's 0:10:27.600 --> 0:10:29.600 also in the heigst issue of Bloomberg Business Week, which 0:10:29.600 --> 0:10:32.360 is hitting newstands now, online at Bloomberg dot com and 0:10:32.400 --> 0:10:35.560 on the Bloomberg Terminal. It's story about robbing the Xbox Vault. 0:10:35.960 --> 0:10:38.040 For more on this in story inside Story of the 0:10:38.080 --> 0:10:40.680 ten million dollar gift card g Yep, you heard right 0:10:41.000 --> 0:10:42.920 here it is. Let's get to Bloomberg Business Week Features 0:10:43.000 --> 0:10:45.600 editor Max chaff and he is responsible for putting this 0:10:45.679 --> 0:10:50.280 heist issue together. He's here in our interactive broker's studio. Uh, 0:10:50.440 --> 0:10:52.920 this is this issue. First of all, really is your baby? 0:10:53.000 --> 0:10:55.200 I know Joel created the idea a few years ago, 0:10:55.320 --> 0:10:58.560 but then he said, all right, Max, put it together. Yeah, 0:10:58.559 --> 0:11:00.840 and you know, it gets more and more fun every 0:11:00.920 --> 0:11:03.520 year every year. I think there doesn't really well, you know, 0:11:03.880 --> 0:11:06.600 it's uh, it's just you know, as you said, it's 0:11:06.720 --> 0:11:10.120 a whole issue dedicated to basically true crime, and it's 0:11:10.120 --> 0:11:12.640 our opportunity to try to give people some, um, some 0:11:12.800 --> 0:11:15.680 interesting fun stuff to read in the beach. Um. And 0:11:15.760 --> 0:11:17.160 as you said, you know, one of one of the 0:11:17.240 --> 0:11:21.120 stories in the issue is about this crazy gift card scam. 0:11:21.160 --> 0:11:22.800 You know, you you sort of think of gift cards 0:11:22.840 --> 0:11:25.360 as being a nineties phenomenon, which of course they are, 0:11:26.120 --> 0:11:29.240 but they they continue in various forms to to power 0:11:29.280 --> 0:11:32.160 a lot of the commerce that that happens, uh, you 0:11:32.200 --> 0:11:38.240 know online and and this Microsoft Contractors basically a junior engineer, uh, 0:11:38.360 --> 0:11:42.040 discovered this loophole to basically print an unlimited number of 0:11:42.080 --> 0:11:44.760 gift cards for the Microsoft Xbox, which is their you know, 0:11:44.840 --> 0:11:47.640 video game platform. What's great about this is this Microsoft 0:11:47.679 --> 0:11:50.600 engineer was hired to find problems in the system. Kind 0:11:50.600 --> 0:11:53.240 of right. He found a problem, he just did not 0:11:53.400 --> 0:11:57.000 report it. Um and it's it's funny. The writer Austin 0:11:57.040 --> 0:11:59.960 car gets into the the investigation and you know, Microsoft 0:12:00.000 --> 0:12:03.199 often initially thought this was you know, some some external hackers, 0:12:03.200 --> 0:12:06.240 you know, maybe a really sophisticated operation. Uh. You know, 0:12:06.280 --> 0:12:08.400 it turns out, I guess this is often the case 0:12:08.480 --> 0:12:10.520 with with crime in general. But you know, turns out 0:12:10.559 --> 0:12:14.559 it's a it's a much simpler scam. Basically, this guy 0:12:14.840 --> 0:12:18.680 was guessing his colleagues passworks. There were other people on 0:12:18.720 --> 0:12:21.480 his team with passwords such as you know, very secret 0:12:21.520 --> 0:12:24.160 one to three and things like that. So it's a 0:12:24.280 --> 0:12:27.840 nice reminder that you gotta work remember your password security. 0:12:27.960 --> 0:12:30.240 Make them a lot more complicated. Did it take a 0:12:30.240 --> 0:12:33.079 while though? I mean well, first of all, in the process, 0:12:33.720 --> 0:12:36.320 he actually racked up a bunch of money, right, yeah, 0:12:36.360 --> 0:12:40.200 as you said, ten million bucks. The basic con worked 0:12:40.200 --> 0:12:42.280 like he got the he got the gift cards, and 0:12:42.360 --> 0:12:44.840 then he would go on the Internet. There are these websites, 0:12:45.200 --> 0:12:47.559 one of which is called packs Full, where people trade 0:12:47.559 --> 0:12:51.480 these things. It's just like another financial product basically. And 0:12:51.480 --> 0:12:53.559 we we talked about the way that which gift cards 0:12:53.559 --> 0:12:54.760 are kind of you could think of them as a 0:12:54.840 --> 0:12:57.360 virtual currency, not not on like bitcoin. So you can 0:12:57.360 --> 0:13:01.320 take these gift card codes, you can swap them for crypto. 0:13:01.440 --> 0:13:03.880 You can then basically, you know, launder your crypto and 0:13:03.880 --> 0:13:05.800 then at the other end, you've got cash. And he's 0:13:05.840 --> 0:13:08.320 using that to buy real estate, uh, you know, high 0:13:08.360 --> 0:13:10.840 end vacations. And when the police caught up with him, 0:13:10.840 --> 0:13:12.280 it's one of my favorite details of the story. Had 0:13:12.320 --> 0:13:15.320 a list of of his basically a shopping list which 0:13:15.360 --> 0:13:19.680 included things like one yacht and seaplane, which you know, 0:13:19.760 --> 0:13:22.600 it's just a fantastic detail. He's just you know, aspiring 0:13:22.600 --> 0:13:26.400 to these things. You gotta have a seaplane. Um, Hey, 0:13:26.440 --> 0:13:28.920 just want to mention a headline Financial Times Robin Hood 0:13:28.960 --> 0:13:31.200 targeting evaluation of at least forty billion and it's I 0:13:31.240 --> 0:13:33.120 p O. We talked about that I p O earlier. 0:13:33.440 --> 0:13:35.240 I do wonder Max, when you guys are going through 0:13:35.280 --> 0:13:38.239 in Austin's going through this process, I mean it requires 0:13:38.240 --> 0:13:40.320 going through a lot of legal documents right to tell 0:13:40.400 --> 0:13:43.240 the tale. Yeah, yeah, Austin I think went through it 0:13:43.280 --> 0:13:46.319 says in the story, you know, thousands of pages of documents. Uh, 0:13:46.360 --> 0:13:49.040 you know, talking to basically investigators, people who are involved 0:13:49.040 --> 0:13:52.040 in the case. Um, you know that that that's kind 0:13:52.040 --> 0:13:53.679 of the fun of a story like this is where 0:13:53.720 --> 0:13:55.280 it's it's all sort of laid out there. And of 0:13:55.320 --> 0:13:58.719 course prosecutors are you know, really good at at at 0:13:58.800 --> 0:14:02.079 telling a story, but often when that story is gets 0:14:02.120 --> 0:14:04.920 buried in just you know, just reams and reads the documents. 0:14:05.080 --> 0:14:07.360 And also, you know, a case gets sort of covered 0:14:07.400 --> 0:14:09.760 by the press early, like when it first happens, but 0:14:09.760 --> 0:14:12.480 then you kind of miss all these you know, really 0:14:12.800 --> 0:14:15.640 you know, wonderful and interesting details. And you know, I 0:14:15.640 --> 0:14:18.000 I would be shocked if Austin is not getting calls 0:14:18.080 --> 0:14:20.160 from you know, Hollywood producers and things like that, because 0:14:20.200 --> 0:14:22.400 it really it does have the kind of stranger than 0:14:22.440 --> 0:14:25.239 fiction quality to it. I feel like the whole magazine 0:14:25.360 --> 0:14:28.360 has a bunch of those cinematic uh store are those 0:14:28.360 --> 0:14:30.440 stories that would play so well on the big screen. 0:14:30.480 --> 0:14:33.600 I mean, this is what's interesting. It's it's not you know, fiction, 0:14:33.760 --> 0:14:38.200 this is reality. Yeah, yeah, absolutely, And I do think 0:14:38.200 --> 0:14:40.840 this story, you know, first of all, it really makes 0:14:40.840 --> 0:14:43.920 you think about about these digital currencies because one of 0:14:44.000 --> 0:14:46.600 his big legal arguments in the in the case was 0:14:46.680 --> 0:14:49.320 that you know, hey, this isn't a crime because these 0:14:49.360 --> 0:14:52.240 things are not real. Microsoft is just making up these 0:14:52.240 --> 0:14:55.040 codes and then giving people free stuff. It's not money. 0:14:55.200 --> 0:14:57.200 But of course it is money, you know, because he 0:14:57.240 --> 0:14:59.240 was able to buy stuff, and Microsoft has then taking 0:14:59.240 --> 0:15:01.560 the laws for it. So of challenges your sense of 0:15:01.600 --> 0:15:03.520 like what, you know, what is money and and and 0:15:03.640 --> 0:15:05.200 that sort of thing when you look at the whole 0:15:05.280 --> 0:15:09.120 issue overall, the pandemic, I know, the issue gets into 0:15:09.160 --> 0:15:11.600 the magazine, the heighst issue gets into that the pandemic 0:15:12.000 --> 0:15:15.440 was right for fraud. Yeah, absolutely created situations that were 0:15:15.520 --> 0:15:17.680 right for fraud. I mean, just just a fun fact, 0:15:17.920 --> 0:15:21.160 the number of romance scams went way up during the pandemics. 0:15:22.280 --> 0:15:24.680 I think it's when you meet somebody on the internet 0:15:24.680 --> 0:15:27.320 and then they started asking you for money. Um, but 0:15:27.400 --> 0:15:30.080 it makes sense, right because everyone is stuck at home, 0:15:30.200 --> 0:15:32.720 they had a lot more free time. Um, there may 0:15:32.760 --> 0:15:35.440 be feeling, you know, more vulnerable than normally, and and 0:15:35.440 --> 0:15:38.400 that obviously leaves us, you know, vulnerable to to scammers, 0:15:38.400 --> 0:15:40.520 and we saw a lot of that. The story, the 0:15:40.520 --> 0:15:42.920 the issue has you know, a couple other kinds of 0:15:43.680 --> 0:15:46.240 pandemic related scams. But I do think there was a 0:15:46.400 --> 0:15:48.480 it was a moment, you know, in addition to the 0:15:48.480 --> 0:15:52.000 boom and you know, uh bread flower and beast and 0:15:52.040 --> 0:15:54.800 things like that, there was a boom for for fraud. Listen. 0:15:54.840 --> 0:15:57.880 I had a conversation a phone call. They were so persistent. 0:15:57.960 --> 0:16:00.320 They're like, we're we work with your healthcare company. You 0:16:00.360 --> 0:16:03.480 can actually get things like sunscreen and all these like 0:16:03.840 --> 0:16:07.320 consumer products that were I guess broadly considered healthcare types 0:16:07.360 --> 0:16:10.600 of products, and they had I'm not stupid. I don't 0:16:10.640 --> 0:16:12.400 think I am. But I was like, oh, well, maybe 0:16:12.480 --> 0:16:14.480 that's a new thing that our healthcare plan is doing. 0:16:14.480 --> 0:16:16.720 If I realized when they were asking for all this 0:16:16.800 --> 0:16:18.760 information that if they were part of my healthcare plan 0:16:18.840 --> 0:16:20.520 they should have had there was a lot of things 0:16:20.560 --> 0:16:23.760 going on. Yeah, yeah, absolutely, And I think Max didn't 0:16:23.800 --> 0:16:25.960 say I wasn't stupid. I just noticed that there was 0:16:26.000 --> 0:16:28.120 no backing me up. But that's okay. I still like, 0:16:28.200 --> 0:16:32.080 you do not give your personal information to random stop. 0:16:32.160 --> 0:16:35.960 I didn't do that. Uh yeah. The the I think 0:16:36.040 --> 0:16:39.200 we're really we're only probably beginning to reckon with all 0:16:39.240 --> 0:16:41.680 the ways that the pandemic you know, change things and 0:16:41.960 --> 0:16:44.880 created weird opportunities and and this is certainly one um, 0:16:45.000 --> 0:16:46.800 you know, another another thing that you know, it's getting 0:16:46.800 --> 0:16:48.560 a lot of chatter. It's mentioned briefly here is just 0:16:48.840 --> 0:16:51.040 you know, benefits fraud. Obviously a lot of people were 0:16:51.680 --> 0:16:54.400 applying for government benefits that that that creates a huge 0:16:54.440 --> 0:16:56.480 opportunity for scameras, you know, and it goes on and on, 0:16:56.560 --> 0:16:58.440 lots of you know, fake medical stuff as well. I 0:16:58.520 --> 0:17:00.360 got a favorite story. Can you do that? Do you 0:17:00.360 --> 0:17:02.320 have a favorite child? I hope the reporters are listening. 0:17:02.480 --> 0:17:05.280 So if you, if, if you should read this Xbox story, 0:17:05.320 --> 0:17:07.040 and then you should also read this wonderful piece that 0:17:07.080 --> 0:17:11.600 we posted yesterday about an Instagram influencer. This was like 0:17:11.640 --> 0:17:15.640 a big time fashion guy. He was working with all 0:17:15.680 --> 0:17:20.359 the big brands, and he was also a really epic 0:17:20.400 --> 0:17:23.480 money launderer. And so it's a it's a wonderful yarn 0:17:23.560 --> 0:17:25.760 that that you should check out. And you think ransomware 0:17:25.840 --> 0:17:28.159 is the big problem, but this story gets into we 0:17:28.160 --> 0:17:30.960 only have a few seconds, gets into really what's the problem. Yeah, 0:17:30.960 --> 0:17:34.200 they're they're called b EC scams um and this if 0:17:34.200 --> 0:17:36.200 you work in the in an accounting department or stuff, 0:17:36.240 --> 0:17:38.239 you probably know about this. This is it's it's like 0:17:38.280 --> 0:17:42.040 the dumbest scam there is. But basically someone convinces you 0:17:42.080 --> 0:17:44.240 to to tech to wire money to the wrong place 0:17:44.359 --> 0:17:47.480 and huge organizations fall for this. That dude, by the way, 0:17:47.480 --> 0:17:49.800 has some great nicknames, but we're not gonna give it away. 0:17:49.800 --> 0:17:51.880 You're gonna have to go pick up the magazine, go online, 0:17:51.960 --> 0:17:54.159 or go on a Bloomberg Max Chafkin, Thank you so 0:17:54.240 --> 0:17:56.520 much you put the magazine and that Heigst issue together. 0:17:56.640 --> 0:18:00.199 You're listening to Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Massier and 0:18:00.280 --> 0:18:04.679 Bloomberg Quick Takes Tim Stinovic on Bloomberg Radio. So earlier 0:18:04.680 --> 0:18:06.680 this week I got a chance to moderate a Bloomberg 0:18:06.680 --> 0:18:08.919 panel on how we work, How leaders are leading and 0:18:09.040 --> 0:18:11.840 organizing for the future to make sure that they and 0:18:11.840 --> 0:18:13.919 their teams have what they need. All of this we 0:18:14.000 --> 0:18:18.840 know is impacting employers, relationship with employees, clients, customers strategy, 0:18:18.960 --> 0:18:22.360 and really attracting new talent. The panel was sponsored by 0:18:22.560 --> 0:18:26.639 the Boston Consultant Group BCG. One participant was Tamla Oates Fourney. 0:18:26.760 --> 0:18:29.440 She's Senior VP in chief People Officer for Waste Management, 0:18:29.440 --> 0:18:32.240 A really great voice on this panel. She's kind enough 0:18:32.280 --> 0:18:34.480 to join me once again to talk about this topic. 0:18:34.840 --> 0:18:37.399 She is in Houston, Texas. Tamla, it is good to 0:18:37.440 --> 0:18:40.000 have you back with us that panel. I learned a lot. 0:18:40.000 --> 0:18:42.919 I've been talking about it with some of my colleagues. 0:18:43.359 --> 0:18:45.959 We are kind of finding our way forward when it 0:18:46.000 --> 0:18:49.680 comes to what is work, what's the relationship between employees 0:18:49.840 --> 0:18:54.000 and employers? How do you all see it at Waste Management? 0:18:54.040 --> 0:18:55.840 And you are a company that your workers had to 0:18:55.920 --> 0:19:00.200 keep working um when the pandemic hit because they had 0:19:00.200 --> 0:19:04.160 to be out there cleaning up after everyone collecting garbage. 0:19:04.280 --> 0:19:09.800 It was a crucial service, absolutely, I will tell you that. 0:19:09.880 --> 0:19:12.120 And I heard you talking earlier before I joined about 0:19:12.160 --> 0:19:14.960 the competitive nature and the workforce, and we are seeing that. 0:19:15.440 --> 0:19:17.840 In fact, it was something that we were experiencing even 0:19:17.920 --> 0:19:20.640 prior to the pandemic, and so we were looking at 0:19:20.640 --> 0:19:24.520 ways to really augment and showcase the value of a 0:19:24.720 --> 0:19:27.480 w M job that far exceeded that of a take 0:19:27.560 --> 0:19:31.280 home pay. And we recently launched this new program known 0:19:31.359 --> 0:19:35.320 as Your Tomorrow, where we're providing debt free educational benefits 0:19:35.400 --> 0:19:39.360 for our employees and beginning in January two, it's going 0:19:39.400 --> 0:19:42.399 to be a benefit that's not only intelligible for employees, 0:19:42.680 --> 0:19:45.479 but their dependence as well, meeting their spouses and their children. 0:19:45.480 --> 0:19:48.879 And we think this is a creative and innovative and 0:19:49.000 --> 0:19:53.280 competitive way to want attract people to waste management, but 0:19:53.359 --> 0:19:56.080 not only attract them, but we came them, tell them 0:19:56.119 --> 0:19:58.040 this is this is this is a big deal. Why 0:19:58.040 --> 0:20:00.760 did you do it? And and can anybody access this? 0:20:00.880 --> 0:20:05.440 And anybody's family accesses? So why did we do it? One? 0:20:05.560 --> 0:20:07.960 Because there are a couple of things. One, our employees 0:20:07.960 --> 0:20:11.919 were asking about educational reimbursement benefit in its traditional senses, 0:20:11.960 --> 0:20:14.439 but it's something that our employees were interested in. But 0:20:14.440 --> 0:20:17.400 when we looked at the old model, it was more 0:20:17.520 --> 0:20:20.399 of a reimbursement, so the burden was on the employee 0:20:20.440 --> 0:20:23.600 to find the school and university and they would have 0:20:23.680 --> 0:20:26.400 to come out of pocket upfront and the company would 0:20:26.440 --> 0:20:29.320 pay for that. So we were looking at options for 0:20:29.400 --> 0:20:32.840