Speaker 1: The Volume, Hi everybody.
Speaker 2: It's either the Sunday Night podcast, which you can catch
Speaker 2: on the Volume YouTube channel, or the Monday Morning podcast,
Speaker 2: either one. This is actually one of my favorite times
Speaker 2: of the year because after the NBA Championship is rendered,
Speaker 2: there's the NBA Draft, then you have NBA free agency,
Speaker 2: and then you eventually move into the NFL camps. But
Speaker 2: it's one of the rare sort of eight week moments.
Speaker 2: I think I only have one, maybe two now it's
Speaker 2: probably one. This is it. I get about three weeks
Speaker 2: after the Super Bowl where I don't have to on
Speaker 2: a nightly basis sit and watch sports. I get about
Speaker 2: eight weeks now where I'll watch I watched the Mets
Speaker 2: meltdown against the Phillies yesterday, a complete meltdown with a
Speaker 2: Mets bull and they don't do anything particularly well. Buck
Speaker 2: Show Walter is apparently now no longer a genius. He's
Speaker 2: in trouble. But I get about eight weeks where I
Speaker 2: don't have to, you know, race home at night and
Speaker 2: sit in front of a TV, so I kind of
Speaker 2: bounce around and watch a lot of different stuff. I
Speaker 2: can watch the United States men's national team against Jamaica.
Speaker 2: I can watch a baseball game, the Mets bullpen melting down.
Speaker 2: There's a little bit of a freedom that I can
Speaker 2: kind of watch what I want to watch. There's not
Speaker 2: a lot of things that are major topics right now
Speaker 2: as we await a couple of NBA potential trades to happen.
Speaker 2: I also like this time of the year because I
Speaker 2: start reading Phil Steele, my college football books, my NFL books,
Speaker 2: and I get ready for the season. I do have
Speaker 2: a little bit of a gym on the Green Bay Packers.
Speaker 2: So through the years, I've had, you know, multiple people
Speaker 2: that were on the Packers. I think you know that
Speaker 2: I know Jeff Saturday, well, Mercedes Lewis, I know Aaron Jones.
Speaker 2: But there's four or five other Packers, some the team,
Speaker 2: some not that I have not brought on my show,
Speaker 2: but I have an ability to get a hold of
Speaker 2: them through people. And so I had an interesting discussion
Speaker 2: yesterday yesterday being Saturday, because I'm taping this on Sunday
Speaker 2: with a I won't tell you if it's a former
Speaker 2: Packer or a current Packer, but it's somebody on the
Speaker 2: offensive side of the ball, you know. And I just
Speaker 2: asked the question. I said, Hey, what do you expect
Speaker 2: from Jordan Love. The organization went heavy into offense this draft.
Speaker 2: They went and got a couple of tight ends, one
Speaker 2: I really like Musgrave out of Oregon State, and then
Speaker 2: I think three different wide receivers and a running back.
Speaker 2: So the organization, which is always really first round once
Speaker 2: again was an and outside linebacker from Iowa. But they
Speaker 2: really loaded up on young offensive people, and I think
Speaker 2: when you consider Christian Watson and Romeo Dobbs from last
Speaker 2: year wide receivers along with this draft class, you know,
Speaker 2: the feeling in Green Bay is We're going to grow
Speaker 2: with Jordan Love here. He's going to have people of
Speaker 2: his age that he can sort of grow with. The
Speaker 2: question becomes how patient will they be? So somebody that
Speaker 2: is connected to the Packers, I won't say if they're
Speaker 2: a current or a former packer. I asked about Jordan
Speaker 2: Love and his takeaway is in three years, I've yet
Speaker 2: to see a wow moment. There are no wow moments.
Speaker 2: So doesn't mean he's a bust, doesn't mean it won't work.
Speaker 2: But generally, if you look at the great quarterbacks over
Speaker 2: the last twenty five years, there's a wow somewhere. It's
Speaker 2: arm it's movement, it's pre snap. Now, some of you
Speaker 2: would say, did Eli Manning have a lot of wow?
Speaker 1: Well?
Speaker 2: Eli Manning's two biggest throws in the Super Bowl, Mario
Speaker 2: manningham into a small bread box and David Tyree were
Speaker 2: both wow moments when he escaped pressure. Remember that got
Speaker 2: free through it downfield. So Eli Manning had plenty of
Speaker 2: wile throw and wow moments, two of note in the
Speaker 2: Super Bowl. But it was an interesting comment. It wasn't
Speaker 2: necessarily criticizing him, but he said, you know, I don't
Speaker 2: see the wow stuff, and generally now Brock Purdy may
Speaker 2: not give you wow stuff. Brock Purty was the last
Speaker 2: guy drafted in the seventh round for the forty nine ers.
Speaker 2: The Packers moved up for Jordan Love. If you move
Speaker 2: up for Jordan Love, there's gotta be some wow. Right.
Speaker 2: That's what a first round picks about. I don't care
Speaker 2: if it's a rush end, a running back, a wide receiver.
Speaker 2: The difference between a first and a fifth round guy
Speaker 2: is the wow. Right. That's that's why they move up.
Speaker 2: They do something that's consistently high end or spectacular. So
Speaker 2: it was just an interesting comment from that person that
Speaker 2: hasn't really seen in three years a wow moment. So
Speaker 2: here's where I'll say about Jordan Love. We really don't know.
Speaker 2: I have been, like all of you, if you're a
Speaker 2: Packer fan or not, hearing the comments from Brian Goudenkuns
Speaker 2: to the GM, David Baktiari other teammates. There's been a
Speaker 2: lot of be patient, let's not get ahead of ourselves.
Speaker 2: That leads me to believe that they're going really, really slow,
Speaker 2: and they have concerns. You know, I've said this. When
Speaker 2: Aaron left, My takeaway was, all right, young quarterback, he's
Speaker 2: going to work with these young guys. We don't know anything.
Speaker 2: I also think that if something had been spectacular, the
Speaker 2: video would get out. And I remember Patrick Mahomes first
Speaker 2: year in Kansas City, his first camp. He made many
Speaker 2: spectacular plays, but there was one play in particular when
Speaker 2: he threw its side arm into the end zone beat coverage,
Speaker 2: and that video leaked out. And that video leaked out
Speaker 2: because somebody within the Chiefs wanted that video out. They
Speaker 2: wanted the fans to understand this is what we have here.
Speaker 2: I remember Peter Schrager coming to me multiple sources. Schreger
Speaker 2: came to me two or three times it said they
Speaker 2: are saying Mahomes is out of this world. So I'm
Speaker 2: kind of pessimistic on Jordan Law with all the cynicism
Speaker 2: and the questions. If there was a great piece of video,
Speaker 2: if there was a great moment, we'd see it, you'd
Speaker 2: hear about it. Because we all know Aaron leaves Jordan
Speaker 2: Love's team, there's going to be some backlash, right, There's
Speaker 2: going to be some pushback. There's loyalties in that locker room.
Speaker 2: Now to Aaron Rodgers. You know, I've said this for years.
Speaker 2: Stuff leaks out when somebody wants it out, right, When
Speaker 2: nothing gets out, the organization doesn't want it out. Remember
Speaker 2: when Tua was getting a lot of pushback. Was it
Speaker 2: a year or two years ago? And suddenly there was
Speaker 2: these pieces of video out of the Dolphins camp with
Speaker 2: perfectly thrown Tua bombs down the field that got out
Speaker 2: because somebody wanted it out. Four years ago, when the
Speaker 2: Giants drafted Dave Gettelman, the GM drafted Daniel Jones with
Speaker 2: a number six pick, there was a lot of heat
Speaker 2: on Gettleman and the Giants. It was a reach then,
Speaker 2: it's a reach now you started getting in camp, these
Speaker 2: slow motion Daniel Jones video vignettes suddenly being released and
Speaker 2: leaked out of the Giants cam because Gettleman was getting hammered,
Speaker 2: the Giants were getting ripped. This is a reach. I
Speaker 2: swear I saw six pieces of video. The ball never
Speaker 2: touched the turf, It never touched the grat. Daniel Jones
Speaker 2: looked like a combination of Joe Namath and Phil Simms
Speaker 2: and Eli Manning. It was unbelievable. The best New York
Speaker 2: quarterbacks ever that got out because they wanted it out
Speaker 2: to His video got out because they wanted it out.
Speaker 2: When Trey Lance was struggling with accuracy in practice, it
Speaker 2: never got out. And so I don't care if it's
Speaker 2: a grainy piece of film. In three years, nothing makes
Speaker 2: me pretty pessimistic. Good news. It's a wonky division. NFC's
Speaker 2: never been weaker in the last twenty years that I
Speaker 2: can remember. I mean, I was looking through some NFL magazines,
Speaker 2: and nobody knows what to do with the NFC. South Saints, Falcons,
Speaker 2: Bucks Charlotte myself included. Derek Carr is the best quarterback,
Speaker 2: and so most of us. When you look at their
Speaker 2: defensive personnel. The defensive head coach kind of feel like
Speaker 2: they'll just be in a matter of attrition. They'll just
Speaker 2: win more games based on a better quarterback and better
Speaker 2: defensive personnel. But their coach has a thirty five percent
Speaker 2: winning percentage in his second job in the NFL Raiders Saints.
Speaker 2: So if that's your favorite, good luck. It's quarterback coach league.
Speaker 2: This coach wins thirty five percent of his games, So
Speaker 2: we'll see. But I'm just watching all these bat signals.
Speaker 2: The Buffalo Bills on Friday released a BAT signal that
Speaker 2: the owner gave the extension to the GM and head
Speaker 2: coach and announced it Friday. Why because before they get
Speaker 2: to camp, they want very unhappy wide receiver Stefon Diggs
Speaker 2: to know this is the GM and more notably Sean McDermott,
Speaker 2: the head coach's team. So you're not happy, you're noisy,
Speaker 2: you're grumbling. Just a heads up. We know you signed
Speaker 2: a contract recently, but the camp and the team goes
Speaker 2: through Sean McDermott. There's a reason that extension was signed
Speaker 2: and it was made public the BAT signals. So watch
Speaker 2: the signals. The news that gets out, the news you
Speaker 2: think should get out that doesn't get out. Those will
Speaker 2: be little tells over the next eight weeks before we
Speaker 2: head into Labor Day weekend and practice ends. Exhibition games
Speaker 2: are over. Look for the signals. Can't wait. I just
Speaker 2: love this time of the year. Do you have some
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Speaker 2: home for everything home. All right, we got some NBA
Speaker 2: stuff that's going to probably break this week, and there's
Speaker 2: little bits and pieces coming out here now. Jason timpf
Speaker 2: Our guy at Hoops tonight, we have had so much
Speaker 2: fun over the last six seven weeks of NBA playoffs
Speaker 2: and drafts. It's been an absolute blast. And for those
Speaker 2: who didn't know who Jason was before and if we've
Speaker 2: possibly introduced Jason to you, I get so much feedback,
Speaker 2: maybe more positive feedback on Jason than any single person
Speaker 2: we have at the volume and the stuff that trickled
Speaker 2: out today, I think it was Chris Haynes reported that
Speaker 2: the Suns have decided DeAndre Ayton we're going to keep
Speaker 2: him at My takeaway first is that Vogel's always been known.
Speaker 2: I mean, Vogel made Roy Hibbert into a nuisance against
Speaker 2: Lebron James. Roy Hibbert was a nine to ten point
Speaker 2: a game guy and was a big pain in Lebron's
Speaker 2: butt for several years for the Pacers. I think Vogels, oh,
Speaker 2: you know, he won a championship. I thought Anthony Davis
Speaker 2: was a dominating defender. He liked size, and so so
Speaker 2: my takeaway is we'll see the best DeAndre Ayton of
Speaker 2: his career with Vogel. What I do worry about Jason.
Speaker 2: This is a player now that will get fewer offensive
Speaker 2: opportunities perhaps, and he can kind of disengage when he
Speaker 2: doesn't get looks. So I do think they're a really
Speaker 2: good basketball team. If you told me that four best
Speaker 2: players in every team, you know, Denver and Phoenix are
Speaker 2: right near the top of the NBA. Are you worried
Speaker 2: at all if they keep him though that you know
Speaker 2: he for lack of a better word, he's pouted before.
Speaker 2: If he doesn't get looks.
Speaker 3: I think at all likelihood they tried to trade him.
Speaker 3: I do think his value is extraordinarily low. I mean,
Speaker 3: centers in general, they're like the running backs of the NBA,
Speaker 3: as we all know, and in general, you don't want
Speaker 3: to spend a ton of money on one unless he's
Speaker 3: a star. And there was, you know, obviously some suspicion
Speaker 3: or expectation that DeAndre Ayton would be that level of player,
Speaker 3: and it's never really materialized. The tricky thing is is
Speaker 3: you absolutely need a center if you're the Signs for
Speaker 3: two reasons. One, it's the foundational piece in vogel scheme.
Speaker 3: He loves to run drop coverage, which involves the big
Speaker 3: back at the rim, and he asks his guards to
Speaker 3: chase over the top all the time. So foundationally, Vogel
Speaker 3: needs a center. But the second part of it is
Speaker 3: you're gonna have to go through Denver at some point,
Speaker 3: and so you absolutely have to have somebody that can
Speaker 3: bang with Jokic. The tricky part is is the specific
Speaker 3: type of production they need out of Aighton for Phoenix
Speaker 3: is all dirty work. You know. Obviously there's some stuff
Speaker 3: with catching in the role and finishing around the rim,
Speaker 3: and Eighton's great at that, but you can probably find
Speaker 3: a player who makes like the mid level exception, who's
Speaker 3: about eighty percent as good as him at that stuff,
Speaker 3: and every bit is good defensively and as a rebounder.
Speaker 3: And so I'm sure they did look, but I just
Speaker 3: think it was really difficult for them to find a taker.
Speaker 3: And that's just the reality of Aten in this predicament.
Speaker 3: And so I mean, you hit the nail on the head.
Speaker 3: He's going to have to have a good attitude through
Speaker 3: all of this, and I'm not sure that he's going to,
Speaker 3: but they'll have the ability to move him down the
Speaker 3: line if they need to. But with how talent to
Speaker 3: Dayton is, it makes sense. And I'm sure Vogel behind
Speaker 3: the scenes has probably been actively pushing to give it
Speaker 3: a chance.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, it's you know, I've said before, I
Speaker 2: think the word star is overrated. Zach Lavine's a star,
Speaker 2: I don't know if he's a winning player. Westbrook's a star.
Speaker 2: I'm not sure he's a winning player. Same with John
Speaker 2: wall I think the word I always use is impactful.
Speaker 2: Are you the kind of player that matters in the
Speaker 2: playoff series? And I just think if you take the
Speaker 2: top four players for Denver, saying it's Jokic and then
Speaker 2: it's Murray, and then it's a Gordon and then it's Porter,
Speaker 2: that's a really good foursome, all with different skills. There
Speaker 2: is some duplication with Phoenix, you know, whereas Bial and Booker,
Speaker 2: you know their scores, their two guards and scorers, and
Speaker 2: very much a lot of times it's pull up jump shooters.
Speaker 2: That's what Kevin Durant is. So I do think there's
Speaker 2: value in Aighton being a different body type, having some limitations,
Speaker 2: being able to score low. Could he be impactful in
Speaker 2: the playoffs? And I would defend him. I mean I
Speaker 2: watch him in Arizona. I thought he was going to
Speaker 2: be a dominant player. He wasn't, but he's almost gotten
Speaker 2: to a point now where he is so beaten down
Speaker 2: that it's as if we're not acknowledging eighteen and ten.
Speaker 2: He is a really active big. I mean, he really is,
Speaker 2: and he's pretty damn good six feet in. He's a
Speaker 2: I mean, you tell me your take. I think he's
Speaker 2: a pretty good finisher close.
Speaker 3: Offensively, he's very active. He does struggle with motor defensively,
Speaker 3: and the problem with when you are trying to build
Speaker 3: your defense around a center as a foundation and he
Speaker 3: doesn't play hard every possession. That's a really difficult speed
Speaker 3: bump to get over. And here's the thing, Vogel's going
Speaker 3: to be on him about it NonStop. You mentioned the
Speaker 3: talent piece Bradley Beal unquestionably makes them better. You turned
Speaker 3: Chris Paul and Lander Shamont into Bradley bial Of course
Speaker 3: he's better. But I do believe in diminishing returns in basketball,
Speaker 3: especially when you have that type of redundancy. The example
Speaker 3: I'd give is like you need a superstar to break
Speaker 3: down the defense, then you need quality role players to
Speaker 3: finish possessions when the ball ends up in their hands
Speaker 3: after the defense has warped towards the star. So how
Speaker 3: much of a gap is there between a Bradley Beal
Speaker 3: and a KCP To start possessions a massive gap because
Speaker 3: Bradley Beal is so much more gifted offensively. But if
Speaker 3: the vast majority of the possessions are going to be
Speaker 3: initiated by Devin Booker and Kevin Durant, how much of
Speaker 3: a gap is there in play finishing between a brad
Speaker 3: Beal and a KCP A much smaller gap. And so
Speaker 3: that doesn't mean it can't work, because talent obviously helps.
Speaker 3: But the only way this is going to work is
Speaker 3: if all four of those guys, not just Satan, but
Speaker 3: all four of those guys really embrace the dirty work.
Speaker 3: Because what happens on a Denver Nuggets team is Jamal
Speaker 3: Murray and Nicole Yokich take on that initial creation role
Speaker 3: and KCP works his ass off all the time, and
Speaker 3: then he'll catch and finish at the end of plays.
Speaker 3: And so one of those guys is going to have
Speaker 3: to really lean into being an off ball threat that
Speaker 3: really competes defensively. It's going to be Bradley Beal because
Speaker 3: he's the best player in that group. But they're, you know,
Speaker 3: someone everyone's been saying, of course the Suns are better.
Speaker 3: Of course the Suns are better. Yeah they are, but
Speaker 3: they have to beat Denver four times out of seven,
Speaker 3: and the only way they're gonna do that is if
Speaker 3: they can win a freaking fistfight, man like a really physical,
Speaker 3: grind out series. And so I do think this can work,
Speaker 3: but all three of those guys have to just work
Speaker 3: their butts off on the details, including Kevin Durant, like
Speaker 3: who has the capability to be an Anthony at Davis
Speaker 3: Esqua defender when he's trying.
Speaker 2: Okay, so let's pivot to CP three to the Warriors.
Speaker 2: So I'd said Friday on the Herd on FS one
Speaker 2: that it felt like it was the move before a move.
Speaker 2: Is that no GM in the league says what I
Speaker 2: want to get is slower and older. That nobody says that.
Speaker 2: So but if you brought in, say a Brook Lopez,
Speaker 2: you could say, listen, our second unit is going to
Speaker 2: have a different tempo and we will eventually bridge those
Speaker 2: during the regular season, but as we age, we're not
Speaker 2: going to be we're not playing the same style because
Speaker 2: Jordan Poole wanted to play the same style when Steph
Speaker 2: was on the bench, but they didn't trust him. So
Speaker 2: it's almost as if they're saying, listen, this is the
Speaker 2: first of two moves. We're going to go to a veteran,
Speaker 2: big high IQ can fundamentally work quickly in our offense,
Speaker 2: which they were hoping Wiseman could do. But Wiseman played
Speaker 2: three college games. He's a kid. It's way, it's like
Speaker 2: asking a kid out of college. It'll be an executive
Speaker 2: at Google. You're probably not going to figure it out, right, Like,
Speaker 2: give the kid a break. So Wiseman gets there, plays
Speaker 2: three college games, goes and it's one hundred miles an hour.
Speaker 2: Brook Lopez really bright guy, been around the league. You
Speaker 2: bring him in and your second unit is more physical.
Speaker 2: They play at a slower pace. If you look at
Speaker 2: who they drafted, it's the next Clay, although not the defender.
Speaker 2: Clay was at Washington State. But it's a shooter, an
Speaker 2: athletic shooter. And what they're basically saying is, and that
Speaker 2: kid will probably play on that second unit is we're
Speaker 2: going to have some fundamental differences first unit to second unit.
Speaker 2: Now that that's what I'm guessing. You tell me, as
Speaker 2: somebody who played college basketball, is that impossible? Does it work?
Speaker 2: Because I mean, Chris Paul is I think amenable to
Speaker 2: some different styles, but he's thirty eight. Okay, he's there
Speaker 2: is no next gear. This is what he is now.
Speaker 2: Like if you're really on seven years ago and say, hey, Chris,
Speaker 2: we're going to ask you to, you know, play a
Speaker 2: little faster, this is what he is. He's a walking
Speaker 2: up the floor guy. Right. So I'm my take on
Speaker 2: Chris is that this is the first of two moves,
Speaker 2: and I think they're going to go get a Brook
Speaker 2: Lopez type. Does that make any sense? Or am I
Speaker 2: just reaching So again.
Speaker 3: I think there's two different angles to look at the
Speaker 3: Chris Paul trade. Was it the right use of the asset?
Speaker 3: I don't know, because he was a big salary that
Speaker 3: you could have brought back multiple players, Like obviously it
Speaker 3: makes them better because you're turning a kid into a
Speaker 3: grown adult at the guard position. Like for instance, there
Speaker 3: was one player in the NBA Finals below the age
Speaker 3: of twenty five who played over one hundred minutes. It
Speaker 3: was Michael Porter Junior. He's twenty four. He was the
Speaker 3: one guy who really struggled, because kids struggled in the
Speaker 3: later phases of the NBA playoffs. They now Jordan Poole
Speaker 3: actually did play great in last year's postseason, but that's
Speaker 3: an anomaly and most of the young guards that play
Speaker 3: in the postseason look more like what he did this year.
Speaker 3: So they upgraded him to a sound, veteran presence that
Speaker 3: might not have the highs that Jordan Poole brought, but
Speaker 3: it's going to be much more stable. And if you
Speaker 3: look at their on off numbers with Steph this year,
Speaker 3: they were plus forty seven in the playoffs with Steph
Speaker 3: on the floor, minus forty nine without Steph on the
Speaker 3: floor in the postseason.
Speaker 2: And that's a Jordan Poole issue, isn't it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, because he's too unstable in that spot, and he's
Speaker 3: two and again, and Chris Paul obviously is slower and older,
Speaker 3: but Jordan Poole is one of the worst defensive guards
Speaker 3: in the league. This year. In the regular season, the
Speaker 3: Warriors were plus two sixty eight with Steph on the floor,
Speaker 3: minus one twenty without him, So obviously it's about helping
Speaker 3: them survive the non Steph minutes. Here's the thing. The
Speaker 3: style differences could not be more dramatic, and I found
Speaker 3: some numbers that are absolutely stunning, and these numbers are
Speaker 3: percent energy. So the Warriors ran just over twenty two
Speaker 3: hundred pick and rolls last year, which amounted to just
Speaker 3: twenty four percent of their possessions, which was dead last
Speaker 3: in the league. Chris Paul by himself ran over eleven
Speaker 3: hundred pick and rolls, which was seventy seven percent of
Speaker 3: his possessions, which was number one in the entire league.
Speaker 3: So you have the guy who runs pick and roll
Speaker 3: more than anybody in the entire NBA on a per
Speaker 3: possession basis, going to the team that runs it as
Speaker 3: infrequently as any team in the NBA. So the styles
Speaker 3: are really really weird there. But the one thing though,
Speaker 3: is they do inevitably have to lean more on pick
Speaker 3: and roll in the postseason. And so the way I
Speaker 3: look at it is like it's a move for the playoffs,
Speaker 3: because what happened in the Lakers series is AD was
Speaker 3: shutting all their stuff down on the back line when
Speaker 3: they were running their motion, and so they had to
Speaker 3: just go to Steph high pick and roll, and he
Speaker 3: got fatigued and he wore down and his jumper started missing.
Speaker 3: If you could toss some of those possessions to Chris Paul,
Speaker 3: maybe you lighten his workload and Steph is able to
Speaker 3: stay at his ceiling law in the playoffs.
Speaker 2: So listening to you, I think you said it more eloquently.
Speaker 2: So the first thing they make this Chris Paul move
Speaker 2: for is to limit the damage when STEP's not on
Speaker 2: the floor, so that they look at analytics like you
Speaker 2: and I would do and go, we're bad when STEP's
Speaker 2: on the floor. How do we get less awful? So
Speaker 2: if you could cut that in half, you win more games,
Speaker 2: You win more playoff games, you win more road games.
Speaker 2: The second thing is, I think, to your point, you
Speaker 2: have to run some pick and roll in the playoffs,
Speaker 2: a Brook Lopez, a Chris Paul, So why not get
Speaker 2: a guy who runs it as often and frequently as
Speaker 2: anybody else? So I do feel like to your point,
Speaker 2: what they're saying is, listen, our non step minutes will
Speaker 2: be significantly better. We won't be a Peak and Valley team,
Speaker 2: will be a Peak Plateau Peak Plateau team. Plus, secondly,
Speaker 2: let's acknowledge that we probably now at this point have
Speaker 2: to do some pick and rolls, So why not get
Speaker 2: a guy who's in as good as any anybody that's
Speaker 2: ever done it, or certainly in a small group. So
Speaker 2: as you explain it, I think to myself, Oh, those
Speaker 2: are wins. I don't know. I don't know if they're
Speaker 2: title wins. But the non Steff moments, I mean, those
Speaker 2: are just that's the difference between a W and an
Speaker 2: L in a road game or a playoff game. I mean,
Speaker 2: that's the difference.
Speaker 3: Autely, it absolutely is. I mean, like a lot of
Speaker 3: times we try to simplify for the I don't know,
Speaker 3: for the theatrics of it all, we try to simplify
Speaker 3: basketball down to like a matchup of superstars, but it
Speaker 3: really is a team sport. I mean, Nicole Yoak is
Speaker 3: just one without a backup star because the team is
Speaker 3: so sound down the roster, right, I mean, here's where
Speaker 3: I have an issue with it. You need size and
Speaker 3: athleticism on the front line. You and I agree on that.
Speaker 3: Because of their cap situation, they don't really have the
Speaker 3: means with which to sign anybody for anything more than
Speaker 3: a veteran minimum contract for the rest of the postseason
Speaker 3: so or for the rest of the off season, so
Speaker 3: they're not really going to be able to get that guy.
Speaker 3: So in my opinion, the best way to have done
Speaker 3: that would have been to try to use Pool's contract
Speaker 3: the way the Lakers use Westbrook's contract as a vehicle
Speaker 3: with which to bring back multiple players. Does that make sense?
Speaker 3: So like obviously, like yeah, Like you don't get D'Angelo Russell,
Speaker 3: Jared Vanderbilt, and Malik Beasley in the offseason market because
Speaker 3: they just cost too much. But if you have a
Speaker 3: giant contract and teams are moving these mid level contracts around,
Speaker 3: it's a vehicle to bring back multiple players. They used
Speaker 3: Jordan Poole to bring back one player, so they did
Speaker 3: address a need. They addressed their high pick and roll
Speaker 3: need that they have in the late postseason, which, by
Speaker 3: the way, it's just literally the way basketball works. Teams
Speaker 3: scout too much, so all your sets stop working, they
Speaker 3: start switching things more frequently. You need guys that can
Speaker 3: work out of pick and roll in ISO in the playoffs.
Speaker 3: Chris Paul addresses that helps you when stuffs off the floor.
Speaker 3: But it just I think it severely hampered them in
Speaker 3: their ability to address the front court need, which comes
Speaker 3: to an interesting follow up like does this end with
Speaker 3: Clayton and getting traded? Does this end with a different,
Speaker 3: larger salary bringing back a different piece. I don't know
Speaker 3: if you noticed, but Rashaun Holmes got traded recently, and
Speaker 3: now all of a sudden, the Sacramento Kings have like
Speaker 3: thirty five million dollars in cap space. You know who
Speaker 3: they'd love to have, mister Draymond Green MN, and all
Speaker 3: it takes is blackluster. Now, I think Golden State's going
Speaker 3: to get a deal done, and I hope so because
Speaker 3: I think the Warriors are more entertaining with Draymond. But
Speaker 3: like they're going to have to, they may end up
Speaker 3: having to give up one of their core pieces to
Speaker 3: address the rest of their needs, because, as you know,
Speaker 3: as someone who covered the Lakers pretty closely the last
Speaker 3: couple of years, the whole vetteran minimum contract thing is
Speaker 3: tends to be pretty underwhelming.
Speaker 2: Right, So let's I want to talk about the Celtics
Speaker 2: and Porzingis. So I had said this last week. I
Speaker 2: think it makes them. They tend to get bunched up
Speaker 2: offensively late in games, and because Marcus Smart was never
Speaker 2: a true facilitator, They're always good enough on the defensive end,
Speaker 2: they just get clogged up. And Marcus Smart's a very alpha,
Speaker 2: very strong personality. Jalen Brown again feels like he's more
Speaker 2: aggressive than Tatum. One of them leaves, so that battle
Speaker 2: I don't think will be as bad porzingis is. He's
Speaker 2: not a great locker room guy. He's certainly not a leader. Right,
Speaker 2: so now the team feels like it's more tatums And
Speaker 2: it's not a knock on Marcus Smart, but he was
Speaker 2: kind of considered the soul of it. You know, he
Speaker 2: was going into his tenth year, he was older, he's
Speaker 2: hyper aggressive, he's at times their best defensive player, so
Speaker 2: they move off him, which I never had a problem
Speaker 2: with because he wasn't a true facilitator. Porzingis not a
Speaker 2: great pick and roll defender, not a great locker room guy.
Speaker 2: Gets hurt. But I do think when they get clogged up,
Speaker 2: we're dropping the ball. Big fella, go get a basket.
Speaker 2: Marcus Smart was really hot and cold, so that part
Speaker 2: I think they're better offensively. But I think one of
Speaker 2: the other moves was because everybody loved Marcus Smart. It
Speaker 2: feels like to me one of the moves was to
Speaker 2: create more clarity personality wise that Jason, this is your team.
Speaker 2: We're getting rid of the decade long. That's what it
Speaker 2: felt like to me. It's like, we're probably not going
Speaker 2: to be as good defensively will be better offensively, but
Speaker 2: there'll be more clarity on whose team it is. Does
Speaker 2: that sound crazy?
Speaker 3: I think you're hitting a nail on the head. I
Speaker 3: said this after the finals. But like, one of the
Speaker 3: biggest lessons I learned this year. Do you remember after
Speaker 3: the Celtics loss last year, We're like, oh, they need
Speaker 3: another card, they need another card, And so they did
Speaker 3: and they went and got probably the best card you
Speaker 3: could have gotten the last offseason. But then ye, but
Speaker 3: the under the conundrum is is that at the end
Speaker 3: of the game, it's still in Tatum's hands. Like, so
Speaker 3: the lesson, the big lesson I learned is top end
Speaker 3: ball handling still matters way more than down the roster
Speaker 3: ball handling. And that's how teams like you know, Denver
Speaker 3: and Miami win even though they don't have the level
Speaker 3: of ball handling down the roster, their best guy is
Speaker 3: just so damn good that it's hard to out execute
Speaker 3: him down the stretch of a big time playoff game.
Speaker 3: So like taking Marcus mallertt out of the equation, kind
Speaker 3: of relieving that ball handling logjam leans more into Jason Tatum.
Speaker 3: And we said this after the Celtics series. But I
Speaker 3: really do think the Celtics' best pathway forward to reaching
Speaker 3: back to contender status is, Yeah, they got to defend better,
Speaker 3: they got to re embrace their defensive identity. But Jason
Speaker 3: Tatum just has to continue to improve as a shot creator. Now.
Speaker 3: Krisaps Porzingis is a really interesting player because he almost
Speaker 3: always picks and pops to the three point line in
Speaker 3: ball screens, which is actually super useful in the NBA.
Speaker 3: That's why Victor wembin Yama is such as an exciting prospect.
Speaker 3: When you pick and pop, it pulls the screen defender
Speaker 3: away from the basket like because he has to close
Speaker 3: out to the top of the key, which opens up
Speaker 3: all kinds of driving wings and then when they switch.
Speaker 3: Risps Porzingis has actually turned himself into a very effective
Speaker 3: post up player. He was actually one of the top
Speaker 3: five post up players in the league this year. He
Speaker 3: particularly was great at beating switches, so when they would
Speaker 3: get a smaller defender on him, He's actually deceptively physical
Speaker 3: for being such a thin guy. He's pretty physical and
Speaker 3: he gets a guy pinned on his backside and while
Speaker 3: they're trying to reach around, he just quick, pivots to
Speaker 3: the basket and finishes. So he's going to be a
Speaker 3: guy that can help beat switching teams with by dump
Speaker 3: because Jason Tatum just a band in his post game
Speaker 3: this year for whatever reason, and I hope he gets
Speaker 3: it back. But they really became a very one dimensional
Speaker 3: team this year. There's a lot of dribble, like fifteen
Speaker 3: dribbles at the top of the key, somebody trying to
Speaker 3: make a shot. So it gives some more dimension to
Speaker 3: their offense. But most importantly, it combines Warford and Robert
Speaker 3: Williams and their strengths into one useful player. So you know,
Speaker 3: Robert Williams is this big vertical threat who's a rim protector.
Speaker 3: Chriss Porzingis can do that, but Robert Williams is very
Speaker 3: limited offensively, and so al Horford. They were much better
Speaker 3: offensively because they could play five out because Wharford could
Speaker 3: shoot at space the floor better. Porzingis gives you the
Speaker 3: best of both worlds and gives you the depth if
Speaker 3: you run into an NBA Finals series against Denver to
Speaker 3: have three bigs to throw out Nicole Jokic. So I
Speaker 3: actually really liked this deal.
Speaker 2: So I was talking to a scout in the NBA
Speaker 2: who have known for a while, said what did you
Speaker 2: make in the draft? And he said, listen, the three
Speaker 2: best players went in the top three, regardless of order.
Speaker 2: He said, Scoot Wemby are going to be sensationally talented.
Speaker 2: Miller is a good fit for Charlotte. He's real. He
Speaker 2: liked him a lot. He's like, he's really really good.
Speaker 2: That's who I would have taken second. The league's getting bigger,
Speaker 2: but the Lakers draft. Let's talk about the kid that
Speaker 2: goes in the first round. Jalen hood Scaffino, who's a
Speaker 2: one and donner. So that's a good sign. Average almost
Speaker 2: fourteen game is a one and donner. In college, most
Speaker 2: of your most talented college kids stay for a year.
Speaker 2: You know, it's a tarmac. College basketball now is a tarmac.
Speaker 2: You're just waiting for the next flight. So he's long,
Speaker 2: doesn't have a jump shot yet, But I never worry
Speaker 2: too much about that. It's the one thing even even
Speaker 2: decent shooters who become like shooting guards. Nobody. Booker wasn't
Speaker 2: that good of a shooter at Kentucky. I'm sorry, folks,
Speaker 2: he wasn't like Jamal Murray. It develops over time. He's
Speaker 2: his wingspans like six ' ten, He's long, angular, clever,
Speaker 2: He'll be a score or I looked at him, and
Speaker 2: I looked at all his highlights, and you know, whenever
Speaker 2: a kid goes one and done, the fans are like,
Speaker 2: Ay's over right and he should have stayed in school.
Speaker 2: My takeaway is if he could become by the end
Speaker 2: of a season a top seven rotational player with Ruey
Speaker 2: and Austin and Ad and Lebron just rotational, that would
Speaker 2: feel like an enormous win to me? Is that is
Speaker 2: that reasonable?
Speaker 1: Absolutely?
Speaker 3: The thing with Jalen is he has a very specific
Speaker 3: skill set that is impactful with what the Lakers do.
Speaker 3: So you said he can't shoot, It's absolutely true. In
Speaker 3: catch and shoot situations. He was awful as a catch
Speaker 3: and shoot player, and obviously that's gonna hurt him in
Speaker 3: off ball situations, which is probably why he won't close
Speaker 3: games for the Lakers, which is not what they're expecting
Speaker 3: from a from a draft pick, but what the Lakers
Speaker 3: do a ton of because Lebron James and Anthony Davis
Speaker 3: have declined so much as as shot creators, they use
Speaker 3: him as screeners a ton now, like you literally saw
Speaker 3: that in Game four against the Warriors. It was Fannie
Speaker 3: Walker running pick and rolls with Lebron James as a screener,
Speaker 3: you know, like that kind of thing. So like Lonnie
Speaker 3: Walker is probably going to be gone. Dennis Schroeder was
Speaker 3: not a veteran minimum contract player, so he's probably gonna
Speaker 3: get signed. So you've got Austin Reason, D'Angel Russell. But
Speaker 3: at this point, you really are most likely going to
Speaker 3: end up with nobody at that guard slot coming off
Speaker 3: the bench yet, unless they end up hitting a home
Speaker 3: run in free agency. So Jalen hu Chafino, as bad
Speaker 3: as he is as a as a catch and shoot player,
Speaker 3: he actually shot forty percent on pull up jump shots
Speaker 3: this year, so he can hit shots in pick and
Speaker 3: roll as he gets downhill into that mid range area.
Speaker 3: He also is limited as a passer to the weak side,
Speaker 3: like making cross court passes to shooters, but he's very
Speaker 3: good at making passes to the role man you guys
Speaker 3: might know Trace Jackson Davis, who ended up going to
Speaker 3: the Warriors at the end of the second round. He
Speaker 3: was a really good big man that was one of
Speaker 3: Jalen's teammates and he was awesome at feeding him in
Speaker 3: pick and roll constantly in just like the little passes
Speaker 3: over the top and pocket passes. That's a great fit
Speaker 3: with Anthony Davis and Lebron So I think the thought
Speaker 3: pro says there for the Lakers was we're looking for
Speaker 3: a backup guard. And for as high as he was picked,
Speaker 3: and with his physical tools, you get the nail on head.
Speaker 3: He's like six nine wingspan, six to ten wingspan. Without shoes,
Speaker 3: he's like six four in a quarter so he's like
Speaker 3: six ' five and some change. He weighs almost two
Speaker 3: hundred and twenty pounds, so he's really big. That means
Speaker 3: he's going to be able to defend up a position
Speaker 3: and things like that. Not a fantastic athlete, but that's
Speaker 3: kind of the trade off there they're going for. They're
Speaker 3: not looking for upside from that pick. They're looking for
Speaker 3: immediate productivity at the NBA level. I will say, though, Colin,
Speaker 3: I really liked the kid that got in the second round,
Speaker 3: this Max Lewis kid. So you played a Pepperdine freaky athlete,
Speaker 3: just a knockdown shooter, just like an absolute knockdown shooter.
Speaker 3: The player he reminds me the most of you remember
Speaker 3: Trey Murphy from New Orleans, that wing that can just
Speaker 3: shoot the out of the basketball, Like that's that's literally
Speaker 3: the kind of upside that I see from Maxwell Lewis,
Speaker 3: and so between him and Max Christy, the other wing
Speaker 3: they got last year who's already bulked up and can
Speaker 3: shoot really well too. Like the Lakers scouting department might
Speaker 3: be the best in the league, and they have so
Speaker 3: many hits between Austin Reeves and Alex Caruso and Kyle Kuzma,
Speaker 3: Josh Hart, you go further back, like this is what
Speaker 3: an asset to a front office to where even if
Speaker 3: you're cap strapped, even if you're struggling, you know, to
Speaker 3: make the right trades or you're just getting two or
Speaker 3: three useful players every couple of season that can like
Speaker 3: Austin Reeves averaged seventeen points and five assists and was
Speaker 3: really efficient in the postseason last year. Like, they're getting
Speaker 3: really useful players out of the draft. So shout out
Speaker 3: to the Lakers scouting department.
Speaker 2: I actually I read an article and I think it
Speaker 2: was CBS Sports, and I apologize if it's not, and
Speaker 2: the writer was saying for all the lamenting about the Lakers.
Speaker 2: He said, you go six seven years back. The scouting
Speaker 2: department's done a really good job for the Lakers and
Speaker 2: they deserve props. And I think I said this to
Speaker 2: you on one of our earlier podcasts. The game is
Speaker 2: now so global it stretches. I mean these the NFL.
Speaker 2: I've been told by an NFL general manager one time
Speaker 2: that if you just took SEC players sixty percent, if
Speaker 2: you just said I want to build an NFL team
Speaker 2: and only draft out of the SEC, he said, as
Speaker 2: long as you had a quarterback, he said, you'd be viable.
Speaker 2: He's that's how many athletes there are in the SEC.
Speaker 2: So think about that the NFL. If you had the
Speaker 2: star quarterback and you just drafted the SEC, you know,
Speaker 2: like that's that was your picks. He's like, you could build.
Speaker 2: He goes, you wouldn't be the best roster, he said,
Speaker 2: but you could build like a viable roster. The NBA
Speaker 2: now the map is not only not the South, it's
Speaker 2: the globe. And they're younger, and you have less tape
Speaker 2: and let fewer games. So it's it. I always defend
Speaker 2: these nbagms. You've got and now you've got kids, in
Speaker 2: Europe playing against older players, so that dynamic. I'm watching
Speaker 2: tape and I'm like, Okay, he's sixteen and that guy's
Speaker 2: twenty four and he's going to be an NBA player,
Speaker 2: and that guy's never going to be. So I think basketball,
Speaker 2: to scout, we have to be we have. There's some
Speaker 2: whiffs in this sport, but we've got to be realistic here.
Speaker 2: It's hard like it's really like in baseball. I got
Speaker 2: a jugs gun. I know what to throw, I know
Speaker 2: what the speed is. Right. If you're playing college baseball,
Speaker 2: it's college player against college player. There's there's obviously Latin America,
Speaker 2: some international leagues and players, but I think basketball, I mean,
Speaker 2: the Lakers have done a very admirable job. It's you
Speaker 2: almost have to bake in some misses. You really do
Speaker 2: have to bake in some misses. I remember years ago
Speaker 2: when Mike Dunleyvy who's now the GM of the Warriors.
Speaker 2: I covered him in high school and Jesuit High School
Speaker 2: in Portland, and I knew his dad. I covered him
Speaker 2: he was the Blazers coach, and I asked his dad
Speaker 2: one time. When he left early, people thought he was
Speaker 2: kind of thin. He should have stayed at Duke one
Speaker 2: more year. And Mike and I had a long talk
Speaker 2: one time about that, and he said, you know, Colin,
Speaker 2: it was really about practice. Is that the best players
Speaker 2: he ever faced were at Duke's practice. He wasn't facing
Speaker 2: NBA players in games. And it's like, yeah, he's probably
Speaker 2: leaving a year early, but he'll go up against better
Speaker 2: players even if he doesn't play just at NBA practice.
Speaker 2: And he said, you do get to a point where
Speaker 2: you're not leaving just for the money. You're leaving to
Speaker 2: get better faster, Right. So I guess my point is
Speaker 2: I always kind of defend general managers in the NBA
Speaker 2: and scouts. It's hard. The other thing is the younger people.
Speaker 2: I have six kids in my life. The younger your kid,
Speaker 2: the bigger the leaps they take. Like my son between
Speaker 2: fourteen and seventeen is a different person. In the NFL,
Speaker 2: you got a kid at twenty three. The gap between
Speaker 2: twenty three and twenty five is you're a little more mature.
Speaker 2: But I grew six inches myself junior to senior year
Speaker 2: in high school. So your body's not done, You're emotionally
Speaker 2: not there, and you're asked as an NBA scout at
Speaker 2: seventeen to grab, put your arms around it and figure
Speaker 2: out this Rubik's cube, the jigsaw puzzle of a young man.
Speaker 2: Boys mature slower than women. We never think about that.
Speaker 2: So of the two sexes, of the two genders, boys
Speaker 2: tend to mature much later. So you can draft a
Speaker 2: player and he goes sideways. He's a kid, he's got money.
Speaker 2: I guess it's a long winded way of saying the
Speaker 2: Lakers deserve credit because it is hard to find your
Speaker 2: Austin Reeves undrafted players averaging seventeen eighteen in the playoffs.
Speaker 2: That is rare man. That's needle Haystacks stuck.
Speaker 3: I honestly don't know how they do it because there
Speaker 3: are so many different elements that go into scouting, and like,
Speaker 3: obviously I do the best I can with my job,
Speaker 3: like with the tools that I have at my disposal,
Speaker 3: But demeanor is a huge part of it, like are
Speaker 3: they workers? You know? Do they do? Are they a
Speaker 3: competitiveness I think is one of the most underrated traits
Speaker 3: in athletes because there are a lot of athletes like
Speaker 3: the Deandreyton thing, like hey, what's your goal? In the
Speaker 3: NBA to get to that second contract. I'd be like, what,
Speaker 3: Like I can't even relate to that, Like what are
Speaker 3: you talking about? Like I get it, I understand like
Speaker 3: you want to provide financial security to your family. I'm
Speaker 3: not trying to undercut the money side of it. But
Speaker 3: like I do think that like freakish competitiveness, like the
Speaker 3: unrelenting desire to be better than your peers is something
Speaker 3: that you have to try to identify obviously physical tools
Speaker 3: and the certain limitations that take place there. Basketball, like
Speaker 3: Ques a huge one, Like Austin Reeves in particular, a
Speaker 3: huge reason why he's been so good is he's just
Speaker 3: really a really smart basketball player. And so like he
Speaker 3: went to go play with Lebron James in a preseason
Speaker 3: mini camp, and Lebron like right away it was like
Speaker 3: Colin Robb and like, sign this dude, because like Lebron
Speaker 3: picked up on, Hey, if I have him as the
Speaker 3: fifth guy on my team, he just kind of makes
Speaker 3: everything gel and work. But I do I don't envy
Speaker 3: the job because especially I'm sure it's gotten even more
Speaker 3: complicated post COVID, But I wonder how difficult it is
Speaker 3: even to get close to these kids, to get to
Speaker 3: know them and to learn what makes them tick before
Speaker 3: you make a draft pick. Like it's a really, really
Speaker 3: difficult job. And that's why I want to like shout
Speaker 3: out the Lakers scouting department because they have an incredibly
Speaker 3: high batting average for what should be a career with
Speaker 3: a lot more misses than hits, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2: Yeah, By the way, one thing you didn't mentioned is
Speaker 2: it's the first time you deal with failure, Like it'll
Speaker 2: be the first time in your career. You dominated high
Speaker 2: school au college, people are gonna slot your shit, right,
Speaker 2: It's like, how do you deal with failure? Like some
Speaker 2: guys shrink, some guys battle through it. So all right,
Speaker 2: finally we'll wrap it up. We talked about this last
Speaker 2: podcast about the and it's been the emergence over seven
Speaker 2: to eight years of the European basketball and Steve Kerr
Speaker 2: has noted that the aaum of basketball is not necessarily
Speaker 2: great for character building going forward. Adam Silver's I think
Speaker 2: Adam Silver sense this when he made the suspension the
Speaker 2: jah morant, and I think Adam's really bright, but I
Speaker 2: think Adam knew it was a moment He's watching Zion
Speaker 2: go sideways, he's watching Jogo sideways and he sees these
Speaker 2: mature European players, and I think he understands the value
Speaker 2: of our domestic players on his TV ratings. This is
Speaker 2: not a knock on Jokic, but nobody in this league
Speaker 2: outside of Denver watched him for the first two years
Speaker 2: he was in the league. Nobody's watching these second round guys.
Speaker 2: Draymond Green was a second rounder, but he was four
Speaker 2: years at Michigan State. He was a tremendous college player.
Speaker 2: He may have been a college All American. He was
Speaker 2: a great college player. I remember Draymond Green second round
Speaker 2: like first time. I saw him as a problem. Oh
Speaker 2: that's the Spartan. I watched that guy with tom Izzo.
Speaker 2: You don't get that with second run internet players or
Speaker 2: Giannis going ten to eleven twelfth. I thought the Jahn
Speaker 2: Morant suspension was sort of a It was Adam Silver's
Speaker 2: way of saying, guys, we're unraveling. Our domestic players are
Speaker 2: unraveling here a bit, we're asking more. They're bigger stars.
Speaker 2: There's Instagram. It's all And I think I think he
Speaker 2: saw it and kind of says, guys, the world's changing
Speaker 2: really fast. The phones now he had mentioned two years ago,
Speaker 2: my players are miserable. There was a lot of pushback
Speaker 2: on jows twenty five game suspension. Even jos family reported
Speaker 2: they think he's picking on him. How did it land
Speaker 2: with you? I mean, when Adam made it, did you
Speaker 2: just see it as right? I saw it as a
Speaker 2: big picture, a little bit of a warning sign to
Speaker 2: the league. Guys. We got guys unraveling here. We're not
Speaker 2: going soft on this. That was my take here.
Speaker 3: Yeah. I think maturity is the big one, and I
Speaker 3: think it's stem from the way the system works. We
Speaker 3: kind of have a broken system in development right now.
Speaker 3: And I don't want to blame AAU exclusively because trust me,
Speaker 3: they are really bad high school programs and there are
Speaker 3: really bad college programs too, Like you'd be surprised. We
Speaker 3: have this like expectation, like, oh, everyone that became a
Speaker 3: college coach is super competent and knows what they're doing. No, no, no,
Speaker 3: there are plenty of colleges out there that are running
Speaker 3: the exact opposite of a tight ship. Whereas like overseas,
Speaker 3: it's pretty straightforward. It's like, oh, you're sixteen, time for
Speaker 3: you to start playing with the men and you're and
Speaker 3: you're gonna be You're gonna behave like professional. They're going
Speaker 3: to be in locker rooms with professionals. They're going to
Speaker 3: teach you. You're going to learn, and you know, I
Speaker 3: think ironically, and he's not even an American, but I
Speaker 3: guess you can call North American. But if I had
Speaker 3: to pick the North American player that is most capable
Speaker 3: of competing with the Jannis and Embiid and and lu
Speaker 3: Luca and Jokic, it's probably shake Gilges Alexander. And he's
Speaker 3: such a grown up. He's never in the news, he's
Speaker 3: never doing anything except for kicking people's ass on the
Speaker 3: basketball court. He's quiet, but he's loud within his locker
Speaker 3: room and as a leader. And he's just a growth
Speaker 3: Shay Gills as Alexander's a grown man already at his age.
Speaker 3: And so I think maturity is the big part of it.
Speaker 3: And I don't I don't know what a good answer is.
Speaker 3: I think Adam Silver obviously being more of a disciplinarian,
Speaker 3: I think helps, Like I think it's important to kind
Speaker 3: of send this message because it's not just about hurting
Speaker 3: the kids in the short term in terms of making
Speaker 3: them miss games. It's also about teaching a lesson that
Speaker 3: could help them have a longer NBA career, you know,
Speaker 3: like to even some of these some of these women
Speaker 3: out there that have been taking advantage of players and
Speaker 3: causing problems, Like there needs to be education on that front. Hey,
Speaker 3: guess what, Like if she's reaching out to you on Instagram,
Speaker 3: she may not have your best interest at heart. She
Speaker 3: may be trying to take advantage of you. There's a
Speaker 3: lot of immaturity in our basketball pipeline, so to speak.
Speaker 3: And I don't I don't really know what the answer is.
Speaker 3: I just as someone who's a fan of American basketball,
Speaker 3: I hope we get it together.
Speaker 2: Okay, So it's interesting you bring up Shae because what
Speaker 2: do Shae and Steph and I, Jannis and Jokic have
Speaker 2: in common? Slow growth, humbled, early injury, early, had to
Speaker 2: put on weight, had to develop jaw zion stars day one.
Speaker 2: I mean, this is this is society. If you give
Speaker 2: any young person too much early, they get engulfed by it.
Speaker 2: That Shae, if I recalled, did Shae come out the
Speaker 2: same year as Knox at Kentucky.
Speaker 3: Kentucky?
Speaker 2: Yet so Knox got more publicity Shaye was so skinny
Speaker 2: that I remember Knox was the talk of the two
Speaker 2: that came out. He didn't develop. He was kind of
Speaker 2: a low ceiling player. But Shae got a little humbled.
Speaker 2: He wasn't even the most discussed Kentucky guy. He came
Speaker 2: in really thin. You know, he got moved from the Clippers.
Speaker 2: George right, So what a shock that steph early injury,
Speaker 2: slow growth, Davidson, Shae Filler, Yokic second round. I I
Speaker 2: that's why I say I blame the players, but I
Speaker 2: get it. The slow growth build, slightly humbled, sit on
Speaker 2: a bench. Second round. What a shock. John Zion were superstars.
Speaker 2: I mean the day they're drafted. That's all I talked
Speaker 2: about for two years was these guys. So we can
Speaker 2: blame Zion and Job, but I think you could have
Speaker 2: put a lot of kids in that. It was a lot,
Speaker 2: and I'm not giving them a pass. But I watched
Speaker 2: my kids. My wife and I always talk about this,
Speaker 2: not too much too soon. There are steps and appropriate steps,
Speaker 2: and you know, when you're giving your kids an allowance,
Speaker 2: what's appropriate for their age. I mean we have like
Speaker 2: tears of what's appropriate. Okay, you're in college now, you
Speaker 2: get a little bit more now you're out of college
Speaker 2: for a year, like you know, you gotta will help
Speaker 2: you pay your cell phone bill. So no, Shay's a
Speaker 2: really good example of it. Shae's a grown up because
Speaker 2: Shae was humbled and it's a slow growth story. Is
Speaker 2: this his fifth year?
Speaker 3: He's been in the league for a while. I want
Speaker 3: to say he's twenty four, so it's probably his fifth
Speaker 3: or sixth year. But he's like he colin mark my words.
Speaker 3: Next year is the Shae gilt. Well, he did make
Speaker 3: first team All NBA, so should I should call it
Speaker 3: his coming out party? Made for it, but he probably
Speaker 3: shouldn't have for a team that missed the playoffs. But
Speaker 3: next year is gonna be Shae's coming out party. Okay, See,
Speaker 3: he's gonna be awesome. They're gonna make it to the playoffs.
Speaker 3: He's his game is constructed to succeed in the playoffs.
Speaker 1: Shae.
Speaker 3: Next year is going to be the year Shade becomes
Speaker 3: a bona fide, like a legitimate superstar in the league.
Speaker 3: And by the way, from the money standpoint, like a
Speaker 3: number one overall draft pick now makes pretty damn near
Speaker 3: what Lebron James made with the heat, like the way
Speaker 3: that the money has changed too, Like these guys are
Speaker 3: immediately coming into great amounts of wealth. Obviously, the sneaker
Speaker 3: deals are huge with the marketing capability provided by social media,
Speaker 3: Guys like Zion and jaw as highlight reels are just
Speaker 3: so marketable. And I'm sure, I mean you said it yourself,
Speaker 3: Like toss any kid into that situation, they're going to
Speaker 3: have some issues. And so maybe that's what it is,
Speaker 3: like Joel Embii coming up as like a late bloomer
Speaker 3: soccer player kid to Janna Santani hoopo, same thing, like
Speaker 3: just at this kind of like long lanky, super raw player,
Speaker 3: Like they come up in a way that they're humbled
Speaker 3: along the way. And the reality is is the Lebron
Speaker 3: James type, the dude who's the protege from the beginning,
Speaker 3: the dude who's the legitimate, like all time prospect from
Speaker 3: day one. He's the exception that's super rare. Yes, they're
Speaker 3: super rare. Like I mean even this kid from Duke
Speaker 3: that Dallas drafted, he was the number one pick or
Speaker 3: the number one prospect coming out of high school before
Speaker 3: he went to Duke and like barely played twenty minutes
Speaker 3: a game like, it's a completely different level of process.
Speaker 3: When you are getting humbled, when you run into somebody
Speaker 3: who's legitimately better than you, versus when you're constantly clying up.
Speaker 3: You just kind of have a chip on your shoulder
Speaker 3: that sens.
Speaker 1: All right.
Speaker 2: Jason Timpf hoops tonight. Love doing these. Eventually, we're going
Speaker 2: to give Jason a day off. We've discussed it as
Speaker 2: a company. It's coming sometime. He's going to get summer off.
Speaker 2: You can follow him on Twitter. He's a great follow
Speaker 2: I get so many compliments about your work. It's great
Speaker 2: scene again.
Speaker 3: Oh and this has been such a fun couple of
Speaker 3: months talking basketball with you.
Speaker 1: The volume